1
00:00:10,365 --> 00:00:13,085
Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

2
00:00:13,885 --> 00:00:16,845
Speaker 2: Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

3
00:00:16,885 --> 00:00:19,685
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. I have the scars,

4
00:00:19,725 --> 00:00:21,885
Speaker 2: and I do feel like I lost a layer of skin.

5
00:00:22,125 --> 00:00:27,765
Speaker 2: You know, everything was raw, everything I felt things is

6
00:00:27,805 --> 00:00:32,285
Speaker 2: more beautiful and sadder. You know, is marriage good for women?

7
00:00:33,045 --> 00:00:34,525
Speaker 2: I've thought about that a lot.

8
00:00:42,925 --> 00:00:45,805
Speaker 1: You know, when someone seems like they've got it all

9
00:00:45,845 --> 00:00:52,085
Speaker 1: together hmmm. For instance, best selling author Gorgeous, Family, thriving career,

10
00:00:52,325 --> 00:00:56,805
Speaker 1: beautiful to boot, and then you find out they've been

11
00:00:56,925 --> 00:01:03,245
Speaker 1: quietly rebuilding their life from scratch. Well, that is Sally Hepworth.

12
00:01:04,205 --> 00:01:06,805
Speaker 1: She sold millions of books around the world. She's written

13
00:01:06,805 --> 00:01:11,285
Speaker 1: a best seller every year since twenty fifteen. But what

14
00:01:11,365 --> 00:01:14,325
Speaker 1: you might not know is that over the last couple

15
00:01:14,365 --> 00:01:20,925
Speaker 1: of years, Sally Hepworth's life completely imploded. Today we talk

16
00:01:20,965 --> 00:01:26,165
Speaker 1: about that, divorce, grief, the shit box. Yes, he'll find

17
00:01:26,205 --> 00:01:30,405
Speaker 1: out what that is. We talk about female friendship and

18
00:01:30,925 --> 00:01:36,005
Speaker 1: falling in love again when you swore you wouldn't. This

19
00:01:36,045 --> 00:01:38,605
Speaker 1: is a conversation about what it means to let go

20
00:01:38,725 --> 00:01:42,365
Speaker 1: of the life you thought you wanted and build a

21
00:01:42,445 --> 00:01:48,205
Speaker 1: new life that actually fits. Sally hepworth you of the

22
00:01:48,325 --> 00:01:52,525
Speaker 1: lemon water, the cleansing lemon water. Welcome to no filter,

23
00:01:52,885 --> 00:01:56,365
Speaker 1: thank you, and here we are both early in the morning.

24
00:01:56,605 --> 00:01:59,765
Speaker 2: After thinking that it was ten am instead of nine.

25
00:01:59,925 --> 00:02:02,565
Speaker 1: Both of us thought that, what a miracle that we made.

26
00:02:02,805 --> 00:02:06,845
Speaker 1: And here we are. But what okay, you have shared

27
00:02:07,205 --> 00:02:13,325
Speaker 1: so much of yourself, but kind of in disguise. I

28
00:02:13,365 --> 00:02:21,405
Speaker 1: think through your characters, which have resonated with millions, literally

29
00:02:21,445 --> 00:02:26,965
Speaker 1: millions of people, and you have had this is so remarkable,

30
00:02:27,005 --> 00:02:29,765
Speaker 1: a best seller every year since twenty fifteen. So that's

31
00:02:29,765 --> 00:02:32,005
Speaker 1: a lot. It's a lot.

32
00:02:32,925 --> 00:02:35,765
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like a lot when it's going to

33
00:02:35,805 --> 00:02:38,365
Speaker 2: be the tenth this year. In a couple of months,

34
00:02:39,525 --> 00:02:44,045
Speaker 2: my book will be care right, and yeah, it it

35
00:02:44,085 --> 00:02:48,525
Speaker 2: feels amazing to think back to when I started writing

36
00:02:48,565 --> 00:02:50,685
Speaker 2: in two thousand and nine, when I was pregnant with.

37
00:02:50,605 --> 00:02:51,405
Speaker 1: My first child.

38
00:02:51,565 --> 00:02:55,485
Speaker 2: Yeah, all I wanted was to get a novel published and.

39
00:02:55,405 --> 00:02:57,405
Speaker 1: Then oh, that's a dream.

40
00:02:57,885 --> 00:03:00,205
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then the gold post kept moving. Then I

41
00:03:00,245 --> 00:03:02,805
Speaker 2: wanted to make a career out of being an author,

42
00:03:02,845 --> 00:03:04,885
Speaker 2: and then I wanted to become a best seller. You know,

43
00:03:04,885 --> 00:03:07,445
Speaker 2: some people say they didn't dream of that, but I did.

44
00:03:07,725 --> 00:03:09,565
Speaker 2: I had big dreams.

45
00:03:09,485 --> 00:03:12,765
Speaker 1: And when like, how long had you had those dreams?

46
00:03:13,285 --> 00:03:17,205
Speaker 2: Well, I suppose as soon as I got my foot

47
00:03:17,205 --> 00:03:18,885
Speaker 2: in the door and I started to get published.

48
00:03:19,085 --> 00:03:20,565
Speaker 1: You know what, might not dream big.

49
00:03:20,605 --> 00:03:22,405
Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't know that I was going to

50
00:03:22,445 --> 00:03:24,965
Speaker 2: make it, But you have to kind of aim for something.

51
00:03:25,085 --> 00:03:27,405
Speaker 1: I do always. I do like to say to friends,

52
00:03:28,125 --> 00:03:32,485
Speaker 1: miracles happen. There's no reason that it can't be the

53
00:03:32,525 --> 00:03:38,285
Speaker 1: miracle for you. But the miracle is often hard work. Yeah,

54
00:03:38,445 --> 00:03:39,605
Speaker 1: that's the miracle.

55
00:03:40,005 --> 00:03:43,165
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I guess to write a novel, you're doing

56
00:03:43,205 --> 00:03:45,765
Speaker 2: the hard work, right, like everyone who's written one. To

57
00:03:45,805 --> 00:03:47,885
Speaker 2: get in the game, you have to do the hard work.

58
00:03:48,205 --> 00:03:50,325
Speaker 2: And then there's the magic of you know, are your

59
00:03:50,325 --> 00:03:52,525
Speaker 2: books going to resonate? Are people going to buy them?

60
00:03:52,925 --> 00:03:55,485
Speaker 2: Are they going to in some cases hit at the

61
00:03:55,565 --> 00:03:59,805
Speaker 2: right time that that's going to become popular. Sometimes that

62
00:03:59,885 --> 00:04:02,925
Speaker 2: retroactively happens these days, and books take off years after

63
00:04:02,965 --> 00:04:07,205
Speaker 2: they've come out. I don't know why, but I really

64
00:04:07,205 --> 00:04:12,125
Speaker 2: do feel so fortunate to be while also allowing that,

65
00:04:12,205 --> 00:04:14,205
Speaker 2: you know, I've done the work, and I do think

66
00:04:14,325 --> 00:04:17,925
Speaker 2: that I'm past imposter syndrome. I think I'm good at

67
00:04:17,925 --> 00:04:19,685
Speaker 2: it now. I really enjoy it.

68
00:04:19,725 --> 00:04:23,405
Speaker 1: Oh, what a good feeling. Yeah, when did that come?

69
00:04:23,965 --> 00:04:30,085
Speaker 1: Was it as a result of outside affirmation or is

70
00:04:30,085 --> 00:04:33,205
Speaker 1: it something that comes from inside? Great question.

71
00:04:34,725 --> 00:04:38,165
Speaker 2: I suspect probably started to come after a little bit

72
00:04:38,165 --> 00:04:39,245
Speaker 2: of outside affirmation.

73
00:04:39,605 --> 00:04:40,325
Speaker 1: That does help.

74
00:04:40,525 --> 00:04:42,765
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would like to say it was internal. I

75
00:04:42,805 --> 00:04:45,325
Speaker 2: think by the time I wrote my fifth book, I

76
00:04:45,365 --> 00:04:47,485
Speaker 2: remember that was The Mother in Law was the book

77
00:04:47,485 --> 00:04:52,445
Speaker 2: that you know, broke out, as they say, and then

78
00:04:52,485 --> 00:04:55,205
Speaker 2: each book since then has kind of built on it.

79
00:04:55,285 --> 00:04:59,485
Speaker 2: And sometime between then and now, I just started to

80
00:04:59,565 --> 00:05:03,405
Speaker 2: think to myself, when you know, I've written a couple

81
00:05:03,445 --> 00:05:07,365
Speaker 2: of short stories recently, and I've never written a short story.

82
00:05:07,365 --> 00:05:10,045
Speaker 2: I mean, before I wrote the first one, I remember

83
00:05:10,285 --> 00:05:14,565
Speaker 2: Amazon approaching me to write it and I said, yeah, okay,

84
00:05:14,565 --> 00:05:16,085
Speaker 2: I'll do it. And then I hung up and I

85
00:05:16,085 --> 00:05:19,685
Speaker 2: immediately googled how to write a short story because I thought, yeah,

86
00:05:19,685 --> 00:05:20,165
Speaker 2: I can do it.

87
00:05:20,205 --> 00:05:21,245
Speaker 1: Well, of course I can do it.

88
00:05:21,565 --> 00:05:24,685
Speaker 2: And that snuck up on me because I didn't always

89
00:05:24,725 --> 00:05:25,325
Speaker 2: feel that way.

90
00:05:25,365 --> 00:05:28,445
Speaker 1: Of Course, The Mother in Law was a really interesting

91
00:05:28,485 --> 00:05:32,485
Speaker 1: one because it showed that you have a capacity, which

92
00:05:32,525 --> 00:05:35,125
Speaker 1: I think you always have to do as a writer.

93
00:05:36,445 --> 00:05:41,605
Speaker 1: It showed you have a real capacity to see the

94
00:05:41,645 --> 00:05:45,285
Speaker 1: other side of someone, and you do that with all

95
00:05:45,325 --> 00:05:49,125
Speaker 1: of your characters obviously, but that was a really seminal

96
00:05:49,165 --> 00:05:54,285
Speaker 1: one because I think it's so hot, Yeah, isn't it sticky?

97
00:05:54,405 --> 00:05:58,125
Speaker 1: A mother in law? And yet you always were you're

98
00:05:58,325 --> 00:06:02,805
Speaker 1: handling of the concept, and even in your conversations around it,

99
00:06:03,245 --> 00:06:06,685
Speaker 1: were very understanding of what it means to be a

100
00:06:06,765 --> 00:06:07,445
Speaker 1: mother in law.

101
00:06:08,005 --> 00:06:10,925
Speaker 2: I hope so that It's always been the interesting part

102
00:06:10,925 --> 00:06:16,005
Speaker 2: of writing for me is there are books, I assume

103
00:06:16,245 --> 00:06:19,885
Speaker 2: that have been written about awful mothers in law, and

104
00:06:20,125 --> 00:06:24,525
Speaker 2: movies and monsters in law and jokes and jokes, and

105
00:06:24,565 --> 00:06:27,285
Speaker 2: so what was interesting to me about tackling it was to,

106
00:06:28,325 --> 00:06:31,485
Speaker 2: you know, to reverse engineer or to look at the

107
00:06:31,525 --> 00:06:35,285
Speaker 2: other side and what if you know mothers in law

108
00:06:35,325 --> 00:06:37,725
Speaker 2: aren't awful because they're not. I mean, my mum is

109
00:06:37,765 --> 00:06:40,565
Speaker 2: a mother in law and she's beautiful. I adore her.

110
00:06:41,085 --> 00:06:44,085
Speaker 2: I also know that she irritates my sisters a lot sometimes.

111
00:06:44,925 --> 00:06:49,325
Speaker 1: Well, yes, there's always that that kind of tension, there's

112
00:06:49,365 --> 00:06:52,765
Speaker 1: that rab A point that you've made is that a

113
00:06:52,885 --> 00:06:56,205
Speaker 1: mother in law is in a unique position because she

114
00:06:56,405 --> 00:07:02,125
Speaker 1: loves the same man more woman, daughter or son, but

115
00:07:02,285 --> 00:07:05,325
Speaker 1: has no say in it the people that are trust together.

116
00:07:06,085 --> 00:07:09,965
Speaker 1: But I'm curious, particularly about your understanding of human nature,

117
00:07:09,965 --> 00:07:15,645
Speaker 1: which I believe to be immense well, just partly through

118
00:07:15,685 --> 00:07:20,725
Speaker 1: your research on every character and situation, and you have

119
00:07:20,925 --> 00:07:28,085
Speaker 1: had your characters often have confronted every type of rupture.

120
00:07:29,485 --> 00:07:29,765
Speaker 3: You know.

121
00:07:30,005 --> 00:07:33,805
Speaker 1: And now this is what I'm curious about, because you've

122
00:07:33,885 --> 00:07:38,365
Speaker 1: encountered that own rupture yourself, and you've changed your life

123
00:07:38,445 --> 00:07:41,845
Speaker 1: drastically since the last time you were on no filter

124
00:07:41,925 --> 00:07:45,445
Speaker 1: with me, the last two times you're on. How has

125
00:07:45,565 --> 00:07:47,805
Speaker 1: that been. You're now divorced.

126
00:07:48,405 --> 00:07:52,325
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, all of these experiences, they become

127
00:07:52,325 --> 00:07:55,325
Speaker 2: a part of you, and so they leak out onto

128
00:07:55,325 --> 00:07:59,965
Speaker 2: the page, I think. But I will say that every

129
00:08:00,165 --> 00:08:01,805
Speaker 2: you know, my books in a way have followed the

130
00:08:01,845 --> 00:08:05,125
Speaker 2: trajectory of things that I've gone through, motherhood, you know,

131
00:08:05,845 --> 00:08:08,605
Speaker 2: even not being able to get pregnant and all of

132
00:08:08,605 --> 00:08:12,845
Speaker 2: those things. Now with the divorce, I think that's been

133
00:08:12,885 --> 00:08:17,325
Speaker 2: the most significant thing that's happened to me. I mean,

134
00:08:17,405 --> 00:08:20,725
Speaker 2: and I say this acknowledging that this makes me very lucky,

135
00:08:20,765 --> 00:08:23,805
Speaker 2: but it's the most significant thing that's happened to me

136
00:08:23,845 --> 00:08:27,285
Speaker 2: in my life. The most difficult thing yeah, and it's

137
00:08:27,445 --> 00:08:31,125
Speaker 2: just coming up to two years ago. Sorry, it's just

138
00:08:31,165 --> 00:08:35,325
Speaker 2: gone over two years since we separated, and I was

139
00:08:35,365 --> 00:08:37,565
Speaker 2: thinking about it, knowing that we were going to talk

140
00:08:37,605 --> 00:08:41,805
Speaker 2: about it today, and I was thinking, am I, How am.

141
00:08:41,685 --> 00:08:42,405
Speaker 1: I about that?

142
00:08:42,485 --> 00:08:42,565
Speaker 2: Like?

143
00:08:42,765 --> 00:08:46,485
Speaker 1: Am I over it? Am I? And I'm not.

144
00:08:47,125 --> 00:08:50,525
Speaker 2: I mean, it's I wonder if it'll be one of

145
00:08:50,525 --> 00:08:54,885
Speaker 2: those things like the grief of death, that it changes

146
00:08:55,885 --> 00:08:59,205
Speaker 2: but it's always with you. Yeah, I wonder.

147
00:08:59,365 --> 00:09:01,085
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know.

148
00:09:01,285 --> 00:09:04,205
Speaker 2: And as you say, I'm so curious about people. I'm

149
00:09:04,245 --> 00:09:08,605
Speaker 2: curious about you know, the last two years marriage, you know,

150
00:09:08,645 --> 00:09:12,205
Speaker 2: I've been looking around at marriages and thinking what makes

151
00:09:12,205 --> 00:09:15,485
Speaker 2: a marriage work, what makes them fail? What makes people

152
00:09:15,485 --> 00:09:20,045
Speaker 2: so angry after they get divorced, what makes people nasty?

153
00:09:20,405 --> 00:09:23,205
Speaker 2: What makes a good divorce?

154
00:09:23,605 --> 00:09:26,645
Speaker 1: And how is your divorce? By the way, look a

155
00:09:26,685 --> 00:09:29,205
Speaker 1: little bit of everything, I guess along the way, but

156
00:09:29,845 --> 00:09:32,965
Speaker 1: if overall, yeah, look what you know.

157
00:09:33,045 --> 00:09:37,125
Speaker 2: The thing that I have learned from this is that

158
00:09:38,045 --> 00:09:41,325
Speaker 2: whenever someone would get divorced in my life, prior to

159
00:09:41,805 --> 00:09:45,285
Speaker 2: it being me, I used to want to know what happened.

160
00:09:45,725 --> 00:09:49,685
Speaker 2: And when I asked that question, I expected the answer

161
00:09:49,765 --> 00:09:55,365
Speaker 2: to be a sentence or two sentences and something that

162
00:09:55,445 --> 00:09:58,365
Speaker 2: attributed blame to one person. There was a victim and

163
00:09:58,405 --> 00:10:02,365
Speaker 2: a perpetrator. You know, I wanted to hear he had

164
00:10:02,405 --> 00:10:06,485
Speaker 2: an affair or she was crazy, which is cut. Yes,

165
00:10:06,525 --> 00:10:09,925
Speaker 2: and so you immediately know that's what happened, and and

166
00:10:09,925 --> 00:10:12,405
Speaker 2: what I've discovered since then, and in my own case

167
00:10:12,445 --> 00:10:15,005
Speaker 2: this is true. I mean, you might be able to,

168
00:10:15,165 --> 00:10:17,725
Speaker 2: for the sake of conversation, boil it down to one

169
00:10:17,765 --> 00:10:21,165
Speaker 2: or two things, but ultimately you could write a book.

170
00:10:21,205 --> 00:10:22,765
Speaker 2: It's not one or two sentences.

171
00:10:23,045 --> 00:10:25,885
Speaker 1: There's nothing. You could write a book, and maybe I will.

172
00:10:26,525 --> 00:10:29,885
Speaker 1: Well it is. It is fascinating, and because it's such

173
00:10:29,925 --> 00:10:35,445
Speaker 1: a common experience and for it to be so traumatic, yes,

174
00:10:36,605 --> 00:10:42,525
Speaker 1: and so common, and yet not really, I don't think

175
00:10:42,565 --> 00:10:47,685
Speaker 1: it's really given the full weight that it deserves, the

176
00:10:47,765 --> 00:10:50,685
Speaker 1: significance in a person's life.

177
00:10:51,125 --> 00:10:54,925
Speaker 2: I agree strongly, and in fact, look, I don't know

178
00:10:55,565 --> 00:10:58,205
Speaker 2: if my experience is true of everyone, and of course

179
00:10:58,245 --> 00:11:01,125
Speaker 2: it's not. Everyone has a different experiences.

180
00:11:01,205 --> 00:11:02,165
Speaker 1: But I was so.

181
00:11:03,885 --> 00:11:09,725
Speaker 2: Knocked to my ass from it, and even my if

182
00:11:09,765 --> 00:11:12,005
Speaker 2: I heard someone was divorced before it happened to me,

183
00:11:12,045 --> 00:11:14,365
Speaker 2: I would have said, oh, that's a shame. It certainly

184
00:11:14,485 --> 00:11:17,685
Speaker 2: wasn't on par with you know, other terrible things that

185
00:11:17,725 --> 00:11:20,365
Speaker 2: happened to people, like a disease, like an it's.

186
00:11:20,245 --> 00:11:23,285
Speaker 1: A terrible thing, and it is kind of a death. Yeah,

187
00:11:23,765 --> 00:11:26,645
Speaker 1: it's a death of I mean all those things that

188
00:11:26,765 --> 00:11:29,205
Speaker 1: lead you to get married in the first place. Yes,

189
00:11:29,405 --> 00:11:33,645
Speaker 1: the hope, the love, the starry eyed whatever it was,

190
00:11:34,085 --> 00:11:37,045
Speaker 1: it's the antithesis of that. So it is in some

191
00:11:37,085 --> 00:11:38,685
Speaker 1: ways that it is.

192
00:11:38,925 --> 00:11:41,165
Speaker 2: And on top of all that, I mean, that is

193
00:11:41,205 --> 00:11:42,805
Speaker 2: the big part. And then on top of that there's

194
00:11:42,885 --> 00:11:47,925
Speaker 2: the the life up people. You know that there's worries

195
00:11:47,965 --> 00:11:52,685
Speaker 2: about financial worries, there's emotional concerns for the children, children,

196
00:11:52,885 --> 00:11:57,365
Speaker 2: there's you know, I mean that part is so hard

197
00:11:57,445 --> 00:12:00,085
Speaker 2: that you're going through something so difficult, and yet you

198
00:12:00,125 --> 00:12:02,685
Speaker 2: have to do the best parenting of your life, you know,

199
00:12:02,805 --> 00:12:07,125
Speaker 2: in order to hopefully get your children.

200
00:12:07,445 --> 00:12:09,725
Speaker 1: Well, how do you do that because like you've got

201
00:12:09,725 --> 00:12:13,045
Speaker 1: three children, you've got two teenagers and an eight year old?

202
00:12:13,125 --> 00:12:16,845
Speaker 1: I do I mean people like to say that children

203
00:12:17,005 --> 00:12:20,805
Speaker 1: are resilient. I think that underestimates often the impact of

204
00:12:20,965 --> 00:12:24,645
Speaker 1: major emotional shifts for children. I think we like to

205
00:12:24,685 --> 00:12:27,245
Speaker 1: say they're resilient because it makes it easier for us

206
00:12:27,325 --> 00:12:29,685
Speaker 1: to kind of push through what we have to push

207
00:12:29,725 --> 00:12:32,685
Speaker 1: through with. I don't even think that they're resilient. What

208
00:12:32,725 --> 00:12:36,845
Speaker 1: they are is adaptable and good at hiding stuff that

209
00:12:36,925 --> 00:12:40,925
Speaker 1: they might be feeling because they're all antena, yes.

210
00:12:40,845 --> 00:12:43,365
Speaker 2: Or showing it in different way. I mean my daughter,

211
00:12:43,565 --> 00:12:45,885
Speaker 2: my youngest was six at the time, and so I

212
00:12:45,965 --> 00:12:48,805
Speaker 2: saw her dealing with it in ways that were not

213
00:12:49,525 --> 00:12:53,565
Speaker 2: you know, she wasn't expressing it directly, but she was

214
00:12:53,605 --> 00:12:57,525
Speaker 2: having a lot of trouble with you, nightmares and just

215
00:12:57,685 --> 00:13:01,925
Speaker 2: behavioral stuff, whereas my old to and have my older too,

216
00:13:01,925 --> 00:13:05,005
Speaker 2: when you're a divergent and so that had its own

217
00:13:05,365 --> 00:13:07,005
Speaker 2: host of things.

218
00:13:07,645 --> 00:13:11,885
Speaker 1: Did they process it differently? Yea, yeah, how could you like?

219
00:13:11,965 --> 00:13:12,605
Speaker 1: In what way?

220
00:13:12,805 --> 00:13:14,605
Speaker 2: Well, even between the two of them, my son and

221
00:13:14,645 --> 00:13:17,965
Speaker 2: my daughter, they prosed it, sessed it differently. My son

222
00:13:18,805 --> 00:13:21,725
Speaker 2: didn't talk about it at all. In fact, it's funny

223
00:13:21,725 --> 00:13:25,965
Speaker 2: when we told him, we said, have you got any questions?

224
00:13:25,965 --> 00:13:27,885
Speaker 2: And we told him alone just because of the world,

225
00:13:28,445 --> 00:13:32,085
Speaker 2: and we told the girls separately, and we went through

226
00:13:32,125 --> 00:13:34,245
Speaker 2: it and he said, if you got any questions, and

227
00:13:34,245 --> 00:13:36,325
Speaker 2: he said, where will the dog be living?

228
00:13:36,645 --> 00:13:41,965
Speaker 1: Actually a very good question, yes, And so where does

229
00:13:42,005 --> 00:13:42,725
Speaker 1: the dog we live.

230
00:13:43,285 --> 00:13:45,765
Speaker 2: We have a divorced dog who shared We share custody,

231
00:13:45,805 --> 00:13:48,005
Speaker 2: so the dog goes with the kids, which was something

232
00:13:48,045 --> 00:13:52,805
Speaker 2: that they wanted and it has worked really well. The

233
00:13:53,045 --> 00:13:55,325
Speaker 2: other thing that worked well in the early days is

234
00:13:55,365 --> 00:13:57,685
Speaker 2: that we did birds nest parenting.

235
00:13:58,845 --> 00:14:03,125
Speaker 1: The Swedish is that the Swedish model Danish something everything

236
00:14:03,165 --> 00:14:05,645
Speaker 1: good comes from me.

237
00:14:09,725 --> 00:14:11,685
Speaker 2: So because we had the family home, as a lot

238
00:14:11,685 --> 00:14:13,845
Speaker 2: of people do, it was going to take time to sell.

239
00:14:14,365 --> 00:14:18,045
Speaker 2: So we got a little apartment not far away, and

240
00:14:18,125 --> 00:14:20,645
Speaker 2: we would do week on and week off. One of

241
00:14:20,725 --> 00:14:23,645
Speaker 2: us would would leave and go to the apartment and

242
00:14:23,685 --> 00:14:24,925
Speaker 2: the other one would stay in.

243
00:14:24,925 --> 00:14:27,085
Speaker 1: The house with So the idea is that children are

244
00:14:27,085 --> 00:14:28,245
Speaker 1: not they stay routed.

245
00:14:28,605 --> 00:14:32,205
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, and that you know, looking back, that was

246
00:14:32,765 --> 00:14:36,365
Speaker 2: horrible for us or horrible for me. It was amazing

247
00:14:36,365 --> 00:14:38,525
Speaker 2: for the kids and I would do it again for

248
00:14:38,605 --> 00:14:39,085
Speaker 2: the kids.

249
00:14:39,165 --> 00:14:40,765
Speaker 1: And what why was that horrible for you?

250
00:14:41,485 --> 00:14:48,325
Speaker 2: Like just the the packing up of your life every Friday.

251
00:14:48,085 --> 00:14:51,005
Speaker 1: Which is normally what the kids have to do. Yes,

252
00:14:51,045 --> 00:14:52,285
Speaker 1: and that's what I was going to say.

253
00:14:52,325 --> 00:14:56,325
Speaker 2: It really gave me such and that's one of the

254
00:14:56,325 --> 00:14:58,645
Speaker 2: best things from it, such an understanding of what they

255
00:14:58,725 --> 00:15:01,245
Speaker 2: have to go through and we delayed that by a year.

256
00:15:01,325 --> 00:15:02,445
Speaker 1: By by us.

257
00:15:02,325 --> 00:15:05,685
Speaker 2: Doing it, it's made me so much more sympathetic, so

258
00:15:05,805 --> 00:15:09,485
Speaker 2: much more likely to you know, if they've forgotten their something,

259
00:15:09,645 --> 00:15:11,885
Speaker 2: I will be in the car, you know, driving it.

260
00:15:11,765 --> 00:15:14,765
Speaker 1: Off to school, which you know how it feels. Yeah, Hey,

261
00:15:14,805 --> 00:15:17,405
Speaker 1: who was it harder for? Do you think in that

262
00:15:17,925 --> 00:15:22,405
Speaker 1: nesting bird nesting time? Who was more adaptable with that?

263
00:15:22,605 --> 00:15:25,765
Speaker 1: Obviously it was hard for you. How was Christian your

264
00:15:25,805 --> 00:15:26,565
Speaker 1: husband with it?

265
00:15:26,685 --> 00:15:31,885
Speaker 2: I also also I think not great. It's a strange

266
00:15:31,885 --> 00:15:33,805
Speaker 2: thing as well, because the apartment that we had was

267
00:15:33,885 --> 00:15:36,205
Speaker 2: very much like an airbnb. It didn't feel like home.

268
00:15:36,405 --> 00:15:39,045
Speaker 1: No, and because it didn't really belong to either of

269
00:15:39,085 --> 00:15:40,365
Speaker 1: you no, yes.

270
00:15:40,525 --> 00:15:43,325
Speaker 2: And it's also I have to say, it's a privilege

271
00:15:43,365 --> 00:15:45,445
Speaker 2: to be able to afford to have it, and it

272
00:15:45,485 --> 00:15:48,205
Speaker 2: was a small apartment, but not everyone has the ability.

273
00:15:47,845 --> 00:15:50,565
Speaker 1: To know that's right to do. That's the other thing

274
00:15:50,565 --> 00:15:52,965
Speaker 1: about divorce. Divorce is expenses.

275
00:15:52,525 --> 00:15:56,965
Speaker 2: Expensive, and there's an uncertain period which is just really difficult,

276
00:15:57,525 --> 00:16:03,325
Speaker 2: and sharing space with that person is so difficult and

277
00:16:04,285 --> 00:16:05,805
Speaker 2: I found that really really hard.

278
00:16:06,405 --> 00:16:09,245
Speaker 1: It's almost like in a way that when you navigate

279
00:16:09,485 --> 00:16:13,045
Speaker 1: the divorce with someone and there are children involved, so

280
00:16:13,405 --> 00:16:17,125
Speaker 1: you have to be very mindful of that that in

281
00:16:17,165 --> 00:16:22,765
Speaker 1: a way, you have to work together so intensely. Do

282
00:16:22,885 --> 00:16:25,645
Speaker 1: you at some point think why are we getting divorced

283
00:16:25,885 --> 00:16:27,925
Speaker 1: if we can actually manage a divorce.

284
00:16:29,485 --> 00:16:33,525
Speaker 2: Look, I think the thing that happened with us, which

285
00:16:33,565 --> 00:16:37,085
Speaker 2: I see happening with so many people, is that you start.

286
00:16:37,125 --> 00:16:42,245
Speaker 2: I started off with a desire to do everything perfectly.

287
00:16:42,365 --> 00:16:44,525
Speaker 2: You know, this thing of okay, this our life's going

288
00:16:44,525 --> 00:16:47,085
Speaker 2: to change, the children's life is going to change. I

289
00:16:47,165 --> 00:16:52,125
Speaker 2: read all the books you know on children, and I

290
00:16:52,205 --> 00:16:56,765
Speaker 2: quickly realized that that wasn't going to work. That we

291
00:16:56,765 --> 00:16:59,165
Speaker 2: weren't going to be working together like that Christian and

292
00:16:59,245 --> 00:17:04,085
Speaker 2: I and that took some adjusting. And it's actually the

293
00:17:04,085 --> 00:17:06,965
Speaker 2: thing that when I look back, I wish I had

294
00:17:07,005 --> 00:17:11,405
Speaker 2: realized earlier that we're not married anymore, and so we

295
00:17:11,445 --> 00:17:13,805
Speaker 2: don't necessarily we're not going to be on the same

296
00:17:13,845 --> 00:17:18,685
Speaker 2: page always in an ideal world, co parenting is wonderful.

297
00:17:19,365 --> 00:17:22,365
Speaker 2: I now have a lot of divorced friend I've sought

298
00:17:22,365 --> 00:17:25,405
Speaker 2: out divorced people because I'm so traumatized.

299
00:17:25,445 --> 00:17:26,165
Speaker 1: I've got a.

300
00:17:26,125 --> 00:17:30,685
Speaker 2: Divorced group of women that we call ourselves the golden girls, and.

301
00:17:32,205 --> 00:17:33,365
Speaker 1: We share information.

302
00:17:33,565 --> 00:17:36,085
Speaker 2: And in every case, even when they've come to the

303
00:17:36,125 --> 00:17:39,965
Speaker 2: other side and now can co parent, there's a part

304
00:17:40,005 --> 00:17:42,445
Speaker 2: in the middle that we call the mean part. And

305
00:17:42,485 --> 00:17:44,685
Speaker 2: it helped me to call it that because it was

306
00:17:44,725 --> 00:17:47,845
Speaker 2: a part and something that had a beginning and an

307
00:17:47,965 --> 00:17:51,405
Speaker 2: end and it wasn't personal, and it wasn't you know.

308
00:17:51,805 --> 00:17:53,085
Speaker 2: And I think every divorce has.

309
00:17:53,005 --> 00:17:55,885
Speaker 1: A mean part. I agree, and with girlfriends in mine

310
00:17:55,965 --> 00:17:59,125
Speaker 1: even I ended a relationship after nine years and we

311
00:17:59,125 --> 00:18:05,245
Speaker 1: weren't married, but we were embedded. And particularly in my experience,

312
00:18:06,085 --> 00:18:09,005
Speaker 1: the mean part often comes around money, yep. And it

313
00:18:09,045 --> 00:18:12,165
Speaker 1: does matter if you're breaking up with the nicest guy

314
00:18:12,205 --> 00:18:16,725
Speaker 1: in the world. There's something about money suddenly that really

315
00:18:16,925 --> 00:18:17,725
Speaker 1: brings out that.

316
00:18:18,845 --> 00:18:20,845
Speaker 2: But it's not even this is my thing because I

317
00:18:20,885 --> 00:18:24,245
Speaker 2: think about these things a lot. I think it is security,

318
00:18:24,805 --> 00:18:27,605
Speaker 2: you know, at which money represents a lot of security.

319
00:18:27,965 --> 00:18:31,565
Speaker 2: I think it's freedom, yeah, and fear you know, you

320
00:18:31,685 --> 00:18:34,885
Speaker 2: don't know, and you go from being even if you

321
00:18:34,965 --> 00:18:38,645
Speaker 2: have plenty of money, you're suddenly half You've got half

322
00:18:38,645 --> 00:18:41,685
Speaker 2: as much or whatever that looks like. And that's scary.

323
00:18:41,925 --> 00:18:44,045
Speaker 2: And if you're you know, I'm in my mid forties,

324
00:18:44,485 --> 00:18:49,125
Speaker 2: Christians fifty and so that is a very real fear

325
00:18:49,165 --> 00:18:51,565
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, you know, Am I prepared for

326
00:18:51,885 --> 00:18:52,885
Speaker 2: retirement or am I?

327
00:18:53,165 --> 00:18:53,365
Speaker 4: Yeah?

328
00:18:53,525 --> 00:18:55,805
Speaker 2: You know, And I was in the really lucky position

329
00:18:55,845 --> 00:18:58,565
Speaker 2: that I've never stepped out of work. I earn a

330
00:18:58,605 --> 00:18:59,565
Speaker 2: good income.

331
00:19:00,365 --> 00:19:04,125
Speaker 1: Best seller every year since twenty fifteen, which you know,

332
00:19:04,165 --> 00:19:05,205
Speaker 1: I mean that sounds wonderful.

333
00:19:05,245 --> 00:19:07,565
Speaker 2: It's still you know, you look at the numbers and

334
00:19:07,645 --> 00:19:12,885
Speaker 2: I've got three kid course, and you go. But I definitely,

335
00:19:13,925 --> 00:19:18,965
Speaker 2: I definitely was happy to you know, to keep things nice.

336
00:19:19,005 --> 00:19:22,405
Speaker 2: I was like, yep, you know, I wasn't fighting. But

337
00:19:22,445 --> 00:19:26,005
Speaker 2: I also think that you can do everything right and

338
00:19:26,045 --> 00:19:27,325
Speaker 2: it can still be hard.

339
00:19:27,165 --> 00:19:30,285
Speaker 1: Of course, and maybe it has to be. Maybe it

340
00:19:30,325 --> 00:19:37,325
Speaker 1: does maybe to you know, cleave apart what God put together,

341
00:19:38,045 --> 00:19:40,045
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? Or whatever the saying is,

342
00:19:40,565 --> 00:19:44,045
Speaker 1: maybe it has to have that component to it.

343
00:19:44,565 --> 00:19:46,765
Speaker 2: Look, I mean, I'm sure there are people who've got

344
00:19:46,805 --> 00:19:50,205
Speaker 2: some whimsical, wonderful divorce, but then you know, why are

345
00:19:50,205 --> 00:19:51,165
Speaker 2: they getting divorced?

346
00:19:51,445 --> 00:19:54,725
Speaker 1: Are there any in your extended group of girlfriends?

347
00:19:54,885 --> 00:19:57,765
Speaker 2: Now there's a few, you know, sort of five years

348
00:19:57,805 --> 00:20:00,845
Speaker 2: plus down the track that now are working well together.

349
00:20:01,045 --> 00:20:01,325
Speaker 1: Right.

350
00:20:01,885 --> 00:20:04,965
Speaker 2: I had to and look, I actually this was the

351
00:20:04,965 --> 00:20:07,205
Speaker 2: best thing I ever did. I had to accept that

352
00:20:07,805 --> 00:20:09,685
Speaker 2: I was in charge of what happened in my house

353
00:20:10,285 --> 00:20:12,805
Speaker 2: and Christian was in charge of what happened in his house.

354
00:20:13,405 --> 00:20:18,005
Speaker 2: And it's the most unnatural thing when you are a parent,

355
00:20:18,765 --> 00:20:20,805
Speaker 2: even to you know, not have your kids with you

356
00:20:20,885 --> 00:20:25,605
Speaker 2: half the time, but to let go of things that

357
00:20:27,165 --> 00:20:29,245
Speaker 2: are really important in your life, like this is what

358
00:20:29,365 --> 00:20:31,285
Speaker 2: time they go to bed. Things you're used to having

359
00:20:31,325 --> 00:20:34,365
Speaker 2: control over this, This is what they eat, this is

360
00:20:34,445 --> 00:20:38,125
Speaker 2: they shower. There are so many things that you have

361
00:20:38,245 --> 00:20:42,285
Speaker 2: to that kind of stuff, bedtime, showering, whatever. I felt

362
00:20:42,325 --> 00:20:46,445
Speaker 2: so much better when I stopped, and you know, you

363
00:20:46,525 --> 00:20:49,925
Speaker 2: keep it to the important things, and there weren't any

364
00:20:49,965 --> 00:20:52,805
Speaker 2: of those, you know, like they were alive and looked

365
00:20:52,845 --> 00:20:54,605
Speaker 2: after well by their dad.

366
00:20:54,805 --> 00:20:58,685
Speaker 1: And suddenly I unclenched, you know.

367
00:20:58,925 --> 00:21:03,805
Speaker 2: And that too, is a really important thing to sort

368
00:21:03,805 --> 00:21:05,965
Speaker 2: of letting go of the marriage that you do kind

369
00:21:05,965 --> 00:21:09,085
Speaker 2: of have to understand that when you're married you work

370
00:21:09,125 --> 00:21:13,605
Speaker 2: together as a team. Of course you should, and now

371
00:21:13,645 --> 00:21:16,245
Speaker 2: I think we're much better at teamwork. But that was

372
00:21:16,245 --> 00:21:18,525
Speaker 2: a bit of a process too, of just going well,

373
00:21:19,405 --> 00:21:23,245
Speaker 2: you know, when not controlling, you know, we can't control

374
00:21:23,285 --> 00:21:26,765
Speaker 2: each other anymore. Maybe I look a lot too it

375
00:21:26,965 --> 00:21:30,565
Speaker 2: my part. You know, I don't like that idea that

376
00:21:32,725 --> 00:21:37,085
Speaker 2: you know, he's a narcissist, She's crazy. Everyone thinks their

377
00:21:37,205 --> 00:21:39,405
Speaker 2: X is crazy or a narcissist. I don't think that.

378
00:21:40,005 --> 00:21:44,445
Speaker 2: I see he does. He thinks I'm crazy. I think

379
00:21:44,485 --> 00:21:49,965
Speaker 2: that I think that both of us made mistakes, and

380
00:21:51,245 --> 00:21:53,645
Speaker 2: especially in the early days, I was much more interested

381
00:21:53,685 --> 00:21:57,125
Speaker 2: in finding out what I what my part was, because

382
00:21:57,365 --> 00:21:59,765
Speaker 2: that's the only part I comes back to control. I

383
00:21:59,805 --> 00:22:03,525
Speaker 2: can't control why he's doing stuff that I don't agree

384
00:22:03,565 --> 00:22:07,005
Speaker 2: with or why, and it's not my business anymore, only

385
00:22:07,045 --> 00:22:09,605
Speaker 2: in so far as it affects my children. My role

386
00:22:09,685 --> 00:22:14,445
Speaker 2: is to look at me, to heal and to hopefully

387
00:22:14,485 --> 00:22:19,405
Speaker 2: not bring that kind of those difficulties into my life

388
00:22:19,405 --> 00:22:20,005
Speaker 2: with my children.

389
00:22:24,485 --> 00:22:29,405
Speaker 1: After the break Sally unpacks the part she played in

390
00:22:29,445 --> 00:22:36,525
Speaker 1: the breakdown of her marriage. What do you think the

391
00:22:36,645 --> 00:22:37,965
Speaker 1: role was that you played.

392
00:22:39,285 --> 00:22:46,685
Speaker 2: I think that the let me step back. I always

393
00:22:46,765 --> 00:22:50,885
Speaker 2: wanted to be married, you know, I remember that from

394
00:22:51,565 --> 00:22:53,445
Speaker 2: a youngish age.

395
00:22:53,685 --> 00:22:55,165
Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting that.

396
00:22:55,485 --> 00:23:00,885
Speaker 2: Yeah. I liked the idea of having a partner my

397
00:23:00,885 --> 00:23:03,525
Speaker 2: brother's twins. I wonder if that had something to do with.

398
00:23:03,485 --> 00:23:05,005
Speaker 1: It, younger or older.

399
00:23:04,765 --> 00:23:10,325
Speaker 2: Older older brothers, and Mum said, when we were little,

400
00:23:10,365 --> 00:23:12,965
Speaker 2: I used to say, where's my other one? You know,

401
00:23:13,165 --> 00:23:16,565
Speaker 2: like there was something missing. And I don't know, like

402
00:23:16,645 --> 00:23:19,605
Speaker 2: maybe I'm reading too deeply into it, but I loved

403
00:23:19,645 --> 00:23:22,605
Speaker 2: the idea of having a partner for life. I mean,

404
00:23:22,845 --> 00:23:24,805
Speaker 2: come back to it, but I have so many partners

405
00:23:24,805 --> 00:23:26,765
Speaker 2: for life in my girlfriends, and that's the sort of

406
00:23:26,805 --> 00:23:29,685
Speaker 2: full circle that I've come to. But I was looking

407
00:23:29,725 --> 00:23:32,245
Speaker 2: for that, and I had an idea of what my

408
00:23:32,285 --> 00:23:34,725
Speaker 2: life was going to look like, and it was going

409
00:23:34,765 --> 00:23:36,445
Speaker 2: to be a partner. It was going to be kids,

410
00:23:36,725 --> 00:23:40,805
Speaker 2: you know, maybe some travel, career for me, career, you know.

411
00:23:41,045 --> 00:23:44,405
Speaker 2: I had those kind of fairly maybe normalish, you know,

412
00:23:45,005 --> 00:23:51,045
Speaker 2: traditional ideas. And I do wonder now if I was

413
00:23:51,125 --> 00:23:55,365
Speaker 2: really holding on to something idyllic that maybe couldn't match

414
00:23:55,445 --> 00:23:58,925
Speaker 2: up to what real life looked like. And when things

415
00:23:59,005 --> 00:24:03,365
Speaker 2: did get tough, which they did, you know, several times

416
00:24:03,365 --> 00:24:05,525
Speaker 2: through the marriage, as they always do, I found that

417
00:24:05,605 --> 00:24:11,725
Speaker 2: really difficult. I found the I just didn't understand why

418
00:24:12,285 --> 00:24:14,685
Speaker 2: it wasn't looking like the picture in my mind of

419
00:24:15,565 --> 00:24:20,685
Speaker 2: what it should be like. And disagreements I found really hard.

420
00:24:20,925 --> 00:24:23,645
Speaker 2: I wouldn't think, oh, we're disagreeing about this. I would think,

421
00:24:23,845 --> 00:24:27,125
Speaker 2: oh my god, a relationship. I've married the wrong person.

422
00:24:27,205 --> 00:24:31,525
Speaker 2: This is terrible. I really see that now and I'm

423
00:24:31,565 --> 00:24:35,365
Speaker 2: in another relationship now and that's something that I've really changed,

424
00:24:36,045 --> 00:24:41,885
Speaker 2: and I see how communication clear communication. And also I

425
00:24:41,925 --> 00:24:45,205
Speaker 2: think keeping the peace was something that was really important

426
00:24:45,205 --> 00:24:48,525
Speaker 2: to me because I wanted I wanted harmony and happiness.

427
00:24:48,565 --> 00:24:50,965
Speaker 2: And I think my mum was also a real peacekeeper

428
00:24:50,965 --> 00:24:52,165
Speaker 2: in our family.

429
00:24:52,285 --> 00:24:55,365
Speaker 1: Which is an interesting thing because a peacekeeper's beautiful thing,

430
00:24:56,165 --> 00:24:57,645
Speaker 1: but a peacekeeper.

431
00:24:57,045 --> 00:25:00,085
Speaker 2: Can also be you can breed resentment.

432
00:25:00,205 --> 00:25:04,925
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, because you're subjugating every natural instinct to

433
00:25:05,125 --> 00:25:08,805
Speaker 1: just preserve this piece on behalf of who.

434
00:25:09,965 --> 00:25:13,125
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was it was often, you know, I

435
00:25:13,205 --> 00:25:16,645
Speaker 2: was holding things in that should have come out. I

436
00:25:16,685 --> 00:25:20,885
Speaker 2: think my career played a role. And again I don't

437
00:25:20,925 --> 00:25:24,725
Speaker 2: think it's as simplistic as saying. And a lot of

438
00:25:24,725 --> 00:25:27,965
Speaker 2: people will say, do you think that men can't handle

439
00:25:28,005 --> 00:25:33,005
Speaker 2: a woman's success or versions of that, and I always think,

440
00:25:33,405 --> 00:25:36,845
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's that simple, as simple as that,

441
00:25:37,205 --> 00:25:41,405
Speaker 2: I know Christian was quite supportive of me doing well

442
00:25:41,685 --> 00:25:50,605
Speaker 2: and wanted that. It's maybe to do with purpose and drive.

443
00:25:50,725 --> 00:25:54,205
Speaker 2: I think that then, you know, I was at home

444
00:25:54,245 --> 00:25:56,565
Speaker 2: with the kids early in our relationship, and I was

445
00:25:56,605 --> 00:25:57,245
Speaker 2: writing as.

446
00:25:57,165 --> 00:26:01,125
Speaker 1: Well, and then you swapped and he was he was

447
00:26:01,165 --> 00:26:04,285
Speaker 1: the state home parent, right, which my husband also was

448
00:26:04,325 --> 00:26:07,965
Speaker 1: for a long time. Right, So I'm very curious about

449
00:26:08,085 --> 00:26:14,125
Speaker 1: this dynamic. It's an interesting one. Firstly, there's the external

450
00:26:14,685 --> 00:26:16,725
Speaker 1: to us. It made sense and at the time I

451
00:26:16,805 --> 00:26:20,685
Speaker 1: was doing breakfast radio and it made sense for us

452
00:26:20,925 --> 00:26:26,045
Speaker 1: rather than outsourcing to someone. But there is something about

453
00:26:26,085 --> 00:26:31,005
Speaker 1: it externally the world is look do you do do other?

454
00:26:31,165 --> 00:26:31,405
Speaker 2: Mean?

455
00:26:31,925 --> 00:26:35,005
Speaker 1: Even? Yeah, Yeah, it's weird, isn't it. It is, so

456
00:26:35,125 --> 00:26:38,165
Speaker 1: it's a strange thing. It takes an exceptional man to

457
00:26:38,885 --> 00:26:43,485
Speaker 1: take on that role. Yeah. In my case, my husband,

458
00:26:43,485 --> 00:26:48,085
Speaker 1: at some point we could tell he was done with it. Yeah,

459
00:26:48,285 --> 00:26:52,165
Speaker 1: he was just done with it, I mean fair enough. Yes,

460
00:26:52,365 --> 00:26:57,845
Speaker 1: And we had four under six, and that was a lot. Yeah.

461
00:26:58,245 --> 00:27:01,365
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I and we both because I was

462
00:27:01,925 --> 00:27:05,045
Speaker 2: not home, I was working. We went from Christian had

463
00:27:05,085 --> 00:27:08,245
Speaker 2: the main job as the earner when we were first together, right.

464
00:27:08,285 --> 00:27:11,525
Speaker 2: What was his career an accountant, right, you know? And

465
00:27:11,565 --> 00:27:13,645
Speaker 2: he was very good at that successful. We went moved

466
00:27:13,685 --> 00:27:17,725
Speaker 2: over to Canada together because he was sent over there,

467
00:27:18,285 --> 00:27:21,565
Speaker 2: and then we had the babies, and then I was

468
00:27:21,605 --> 00:27:24,445
Speaker 2: at home with them, and then I was also writing,

469
00:27:24,525 --> 00:27:26,685
Speaker 2: and then then we were both working and we had

470
00:27:26,685 --> 00:27:30,485
Speaker 2: the kids in a combination of childcare. I had some flexibility.

471
00:27:31,325 --> 00:27:33,685
Speaker 2: I found it difficult. I still felt like I was

472
00:27:33,725 --> 00:27:38,085
Speaker 2: carrying the mental load though, and together with working, I

473
00:27:38,245 --> 00:27:40,565
Speaker 2: was burnt out. So also not my best.

474
00:27:40,685 --> 00:27:44,045
Speaker 1: You know you were No, No, you don't know at

475
00:27:44,085 --> 00:27:44,725
Speaker 1: the time, do you.

476
00:27:44,885 --> 00:27:47,645
Speaker 2: Well, though I knew something. I've got this memory of

477
00:27:47,725 --> 00:27:51,685
Speaker 2: being on tour in America and.

478
00:27:51,805 --> 00:27:55,565
Speaker 1: Which book was this? Which give me an era? I

479
00:27:55,565 --> 00:27:56,445
Speaker 1: think it worth the era.

480
00:27:56,565 --> 00:27:58,925
Speaker 2: I think it was the Soul Mage right, okay, because

481
00:27:58,925 --> 00:28:01,245
Speaker 2: it was right after Mum and Mia came out with

482
00:28:01,285 --> 00:28:05,485
Speaker 2: their podcast but are you Happy that Claire Stevens was hosting?

483
00:28:06,325 --> 00:28:08,365
Speaker 2: And I saw it and I thought I looked at

484
00:28:08,365 --> 00:28:10,645
Speaker 2: it on my because I would listen to all the

485
00:28:10,685 --> 00:28:13,005
Speaker 2: Australian podcasts while I was there, just to keep on top.

486
00:28:13,485 --> 00:28:16,405
Speaker 2: And I thought no. When it said but are you happy,

487
00:28:16,445 --> 00:28:20,245
Speaker 2: I thought nuh, and it just dropped in yeah. And

488
00:28:20,285 --> 00:28:22,485
Speaker 2: again it wasn't that moment. There was a series of

489
00:28:22,525 --> 00:28:24,445
Speaker 2: moments and things that happened that led to it. But

490
00:28:24,765 --> 00:28:28,805
Speaker 2: that was the first time I thought, huh, because objectively

491
00:28:29,365 --> 00:28:34,085
Speaker 2: everything was going so well, you know, and my career

492
00:28:34,245 --> 00:28:40,445
Speaker 2: was was, you know, wonderful, and my kid and the

493
00:28:40,485 --> 00:28:43,125
Speaker 2: interesting thing to jump forward a little bit is that

494
00:28:44,605 --> 00:28:48,725
Speaker 2: once my marriage ended and I got through, you know,

495
00:28:48,845 --> 00:28:51,165
Speaker 2: the kind of early part of the pain of that,

496
00:28:51,925 --> 00:28:54,685
Speaker 2: one thing that I guess I felt quite good about

497
00:28:54,845 --> 00:28:59,925
Speaker 2: was that my life was actually everything in my life

498
00:28:59,965 --> 00:29:02,725
Speaker 2: was wonderful. I've got this beautiful group of girlfriends that

499
00:29:02,765 --> 00:29:04,125
Speaker 2: we've been friends since we were ten.

500
00:29:05,165 --> 00:29:07,725
Speaker 1: This is separate to the Golden Girls. This is the

501
00:29:07,765 --> 00:29:09,085
Speaker 1: gold some crossover.

502
00:29:09,165 --> 00:29:12,325
Speaker 2: There is some crossover in fact, because as soon as

503
00:29:12,325 --> 00:29:15,405
Speaker 2: I became divorced, I didn't really know anyone who was divorced,

504
00:29:15,845 --> 00:29:19,045
Speaker 2: and so I sought out, Yeah it is, isn't it.

505
00:29:19,085 --> 00:29:21,725
Speaker 2: And that's I guess maybe part of what was it

506
00:29:21,765 --> 00:29:23,205
Speaker 2: a part of what made it hard for me. I

507
00:29:23,205 --> 00:29:26,445
Speaker 2: don't know one element. One of the Golden Girls was

508
00:29:26,485 --> 00:29:31,085
Speaker 2: my friend's older sister, and so I nabbed her, and

509
00:29:31,165 --> 00:29:34,605
Speaker 2: then a friend of hers, and then one friend of mine,

510
00:29:35,245 --> 00:29:36,965
Speaker 2: and then there was a girl I went to school

511
00:29:37,005 --> 00:29:40,005
Speaker 2: with who has heard she got to and I hadn't

512
00:29:40,085 --> 00:29:42,525
Speaker 2: spoken to her for years and years and years, and

513
00:29:42,565 --> 00:29:45,125
Speaker 2: as soon as I heard she got divorced, I messaged

514
00:29:45,165 --> 00:29:47,605
Speaker 2: her and said, I just wanted to say that if

515
00:29:47,645 --> 00:29:49,925
Speaker 2: you're not okay, I know we haven't spoken and this

516
00:29:50,005 --> 00:29:52,445
Speaker 2: might be really presumptuous, I'm happy to come and talk

517
00:29:52,485 --> 00:29:54,805
Speaker 2: to you. We can have a coffee. I just felt

518
00:29:54,805 --> 00:29:59,605
Speaker 2: like I I wanted to acknowledge since I'd gone through it,

519
00:29:59,765 --> 00:30:04,485
Speaker 2: how awful it was. And so together we westarted The

520
00:30:04,485 --> 00:30:09,125
Speaker 2: Golden Girl, which is mostly now memes about being a single,

521
00:30:10,605 --> 00:30:13,245
Speaker 2: which is so funny, and sometimes it's a how do

522
00:30:13,325 --> 00:30:15,565
Speaker 2: I deal with this? To do with the children, or

523
00:30:15,565 --> 00:30:18,885
Speaker 2: how do I deal with We developed something which we

524
00:30:18,925 --> 00:30:21,365
Speaker 2: call the ship Box from The Golden Girls, and the

525
00:30:21,365 --> 00:30:27,085
Speaker 2: ship box is an actual box, physical box that the

526
00:30:27,165 --> 00:30:30,965
Speaker 2: kids put their shit in, not their like their stuff

527
00:30:31,645 --> 00:30:33,965
Speaker 2: that goes to their dad's house. I was like, how

528
00:30:34,005 --> 00:30:36,845
Speaker 2: do you and someone said, we have a ship box,

529
00:30:36,885 --> 00:30:39,805
Speaker 2: and so they put it just a box that goes

530
00:30:39,805 --> 00:30:42,165
Speaker 2: inside the door. And the day that they're going to

531
00:30:42,205 --> 00:30:44,125
Speaker 2: their dad's, how do you say to the kids, put

532
00:30:44,125 --> 00:30:44,725
Speaker 2: your stuff.

533
00:30:44,485 --> 00:30:45,165
Speaker 1: In the ship box?

534
00:30:46,125 --> 00:30:47,845
Speaker 4: And they put it in and then that gets taken

535
00:30:47,925 --> 00:30:50,765
Speaker 4: to their dumb, We've forgotten the ship and.

536
00:30:50,725 --> 00:30:52,805
Speaker 1: They'll say, I'll say, where's your shoes? They're in the

537
00:30:52,805 --> 00:30:56,805
Speaker 1: ship box. How big is the ship box? Like a

538
00:30:56,885 --> 00:30:57,725
Speaker 1: laundry basket.

539
00:30:57,765 --> 00:31:03,365
Speaker 2: It's so those kind of wondrous things come out of

540
00:31:03,405 --> 00:31:08,485
Speaker 2: the golden girls that to link back, I guess I realized, Okay,

541
00:31:08,605 --> 00:31:11,845
Speaker 2: my marriage is but I've got these girlfriends who really

542
00:31:11,885 --> 00:31:14,005
Speaker 2: had stepped up for me in a way that you know,

543
00:31:14,045 --> 00:31:17,405
Speaker 2: my first night in the apartment after we broke up,

544
00:31:17,445 --> 00:31:20,805
Speaker 2: they all came and slept over. You know. One of

545
00:31:20,845 --> 00:31:26,325
Speaker 2: them arrived with a box of tools. Tool. You know,

546
00:31:26,405 --> 00:31:30,485
Speaker 2: they just use the tools a.

547
00:31:32,245 --> 00:31:35,925
Speaker 1: Girlfriends of mine have got drilled. And then there comes

548
00:31:35,925 --> 00:31:38,005
Speaker 1: a certain sort of pride in I can fix a

549
00:31:38,125 --> 00:31:41,765
Speaker 1: c and rody, I know, and it is very satisfying.

550
00:31:41,885 --> 00:31:45,405
Speaker 2: But it's extraordinary the things that you can do that

551
00:31:45,485 --> 00:31:46,485
Speaker 2: you just didn't do if.

552
00:31:46,405 --> 00:31:51,445
Speaker 1: You clicked in a traditional sort of compartmentalization of what

553
00:31:51,645 --> 00:31:54,485
Speaker 1: needs to be done in it. In the family life, I.

554
00:31:54,445 --> 00:31:56,245
Speaker 2: Can clean I have a pool at the house that

555
00:31:56,245 --> 00:31:58,285
Speaker 2: I'm renting at the moment, I can clean the pool.

556
00:31:58,525 --> 00:32:01,605
Speaker 2: I always thought that pools were some like foreign thing

557
00:32:01,685 --> 00:32:05,485
Speaker 2: that only men could understand. And you know, because they've

558
00:32:05,485 --> 00:32:09,645
Speaker 2: got chemicals, and.

559
00:32:08,285 --> 00:32:11,005
Speaker 1: It's always a pool ball the poor boy. It's always

560
00:32:11,005 --> 00:32:14,165
Speaker 1: a poor boy sought.

561
00:32:12,845 --> 00:32:16,005
Speaker 2: A poor boy. Maybe one day fingers crossed, you've got one.

562
00:32:16,125 --> 00:32:19,165
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, it's interesting because I think you said

563
00:32:19,965 --> 00:32:24,005
Speaker 1: that marriage is maybe not good for women. Yeah.

564
00:32:24,685 --> 00:32:30,965
Speaker 2: Oh, look, this has been a two year deep dive into.

565
00:32:30,765 --> 00:32:34,605
Speaker 1: My two years is not long, though you've really and

566
00:32:35,165 --> 00:32:39,685
Speaker 1: compressed it or had experienced a lot in that two years. Yeah.

567
00:32:39,765 --> 00:32:41,605
Speaker 2: And like I say, I don't think I'm over it

568
00:32:42,165 --> 00:32:44,805
Speaker 2: and over it's a funny thing. I am in a

569
00:32:44,805 --> 00:32:47,565
Speaker 2: new relationship and I'm very happy. It's not that I'm

570
00:32:47,565 --> 00:32:52,365
Speaker 2: not over him. I'm I'm happy. I feel like I

571
00:32:52,805 --> 00:32:57,525
Speaker 2: you know, I have a great life. I have my career,

572
00:32:57,605 --> 00:32:59,165
Speaker 2: I have my girlfriends, I have my family, I have

573
00:32:59,245 --> 00:33:06,005
Speaker 2: my children. Life is so wonderful. I have the scars,

574
00:33:06,085 --> 00:33:08,205
Speaker 2: and I do feel like I lost a layer of skin.

575
00:33:08,445 --> 00:33:11,045
Speaker 1: You know, every thing was.

576
00:33:12,765 --> 00:33:12,965
Speaker 3: Raw.

577
00:33:13,285 --> 00:33:18,085
Speaker 2: Everything I felt things is more beautiful and sadder and

578
00:33:18,685 --> 00:33:23,125
Speaker 2: so my you know, is marriage good for women? I've

579
00:33:23,285 --> 00:33:27,885
Speaker 2: thought about that a lot. And I also looked around

580
00:33:27,965 --> 00:33:31,885
Speaker 2: in the early days at relationships and thought whose marriage

581
00:33:31,885 --> 00:33:34,685
Speaker 2: would I want, you know, looking at my friends, looking

582
00:33:34,765 --> 00:33:37,725
Speaker 2: at my parents looking at and I did find some

583
00:33:38,325 --> 00:33:40,845
Speaker 2: there were some relationships that I thought I wanted, they

584
00:33:40,845 --> 00:33:44,965
Speaker 2: weren't the majority, Like I had to seek them out.

585
00:33:45,405 --> 00:33:47,765
Speaker 2: Acknowledging that you never know what truly is going on

586
00:33:47,885 --> 00:33:49,165
Speaker 2: in someone else's real you know.

587
00:33:49,285 --> 00:33:51,765
Speaker 1: That reminds me of a girlfriend of mine who had

588
00:33:51,805 --> 00:33:56,165
Speaker 1: a brutal divorce. She said one of the worst things

589
00:33:56,605 --> 00:34:00,765
Speaker 1: that she experienced was that when friends would hear she

590
00:34:00,845 --> 00:34:03,965
Speaker 1: was getting divorced, they were like, they started talking about

591
00:34:03,965 --> 00:34:06,925
Speaker 1: how much they hated their husbands. And she said it

592
00:34:07,005 --> 00:34:09,805
Speaker 1: was just like suddenly they felt like they had an

593
00:34:09,845 --> 00:34:12,965
Speaker 1: outleadish to say, yeah, permission. And she said, at that

594
00:34:13,125 --> 00:34:16,565
Speaker 1: period it was the worst thing because what she actually

595
00:34:16,605 --> 00:34:23,045
Speaker 1: needed was to believe in romantic love, yeah, not to

596
00:34:23,445 --> 00:34:27,245
Speaker 1: have everyone go I wish I was you. And as

597
00:34:27,285 --> 00:34:30,205
Speaker 1: she said, also she hadn't done anything magical. She was

598
00:34:30,245 --> 00:34:35,485
Speaker 1: going through something really difficult. Yeah, And so they also

599
00:34:35,525 --> 00:34:37,605
Speaker 1: had the capacity too, She's like, why are you telling

600
00:34:37,645 --> 00:34:40,365
Speaker 1: me this and not addressing it with the person that

601
00:34:41,485 --> 00:34:43,805
Speaker 1: you're so happy to slag off to me?

602
00:34:44,445 --> 00:34:47,125
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, that's the thing. I think I see that

603
00:34:47,205 --> 00:34:50,685
Speaker 2: a lot. I see a lot of unhappy women in

604
00:34:50,725 --> 00:34:53,885
Speaker 2: relationships and presumably unhappy men. It's just that I spend

605
00:34:53,885 --> 00:34:58,885
Speaker 2: more time with women, and I do wonder if this

606
00:34:59,125 --> 00:35:02,925
Speaker 2: whole idea of marriage like it makes me think, what

607
00:35:04,565 --> 00:35:07,485
Speaker 2: in an ideal world, if you're unhappy, you could move

608
00:35:07,565 --> 00:35:12,285
Speaker 2: on without this whole But you look at it and think, oh,

609
00:35:12,405 --> 00:35:15,925
Speaker 2: I can't. I mean in that time where I was

610
00:35:15,925 --> 00:35:17,925
Speaker 2: burnt out and everything and I knew and there were

611
00:35:17,965 --> 00:35:21,565
Speaker 2: a few things that made me go, Okay, this, this

612
00:35:21,645 --> 00:35:25,165
Speaker 2: is it. This is the end for you or yeah,

613
00:35:24,485 --> 00:35:28,965
Speaker 2: for the for the relationship that I couldn't look away anymore.

614
00:35:29,405 --> 00:35:34,125
Speaker 2: But I think I really understand why if you're not

615
00:35:34,165 --> 00:35:36,525
Speaker 2: pushed to that point, why you might go, oh, it's

616
00:35:36,565 --> 00:35:39,645
Speaker 2: too I can't go through that because it's so hard.

617
00:35:41,845 --> 00:35:44,365
Speaker 2: There is happiness on the other side, but there's also

618
00:35:45,365 --> 00:35:46,965
Speaker 2: there's also you are changed.

619
00:35:47,565 --> 00:35:52,285
Speaker 1: I'm changed in the nature of a relationship though a

620
00:35:52,325 --> 00:35:55,805
Speaker 1: lot a long term How long were you married? Sixteen

621
00:35:55,885 --> 00:36:02,325
Speaker 1: sixteen years to get to I'm twenty one, twenty marriage congratulations?

622
00:36:02,845 --> 00:36:06,965
Speaker 2: Sometimes you know, well sometimes for everyone, yeah, correct.

623
00:36:07,085 --> 00:36:11,365
Speaker 1: So part of what I inagen is one of the

624
00:36:11,365 --> 00:36:14,925
Speaker 1: things that you have to work out for yourself is

625
00:36:14,965 --> 00:36:17,645
Speaker 1: in any long term relationship, it will have peaks and

626
00:36:17,685 --> 00:36:22,725
Speaker 1: it will have ebbs, and so you know that you've

627
00:36:22,765 --> 00:36:26,645
Speaker 1: worked through ebbs before, how do you know that it's

628
00:36:26,765 --> 00:36:29,805
Speaker 1: not an ebb and that it's something that you can't

629
00:36:30,685 --> 00:36:34,165
Speaker 1: that you're not going to then be able to surf

630
00:36:34,325 --> 00:36:35,965
Speaker 1: the next wave onto the beach with.

631
00:36:37,725 --> 00:36:41,205
Speaker 2: It's when they are not interested in working with you.

632
00:36:42,685 --> 00:36:46,365
Speaker 1: To fix it right for whatever reason.

633
00:36:46,125 --> 00:36:48,645
Speaker 2: Whatever reason, And when you feel like you have tried

634
00:36:48,725 --> 00:36:53,525
Speaker 2: everything in your power and it's except this the way

635
00:36:53,565 --> 00:36:59,285
Speaker 2: that it is, or try something else and it's your

636
00:36:59,325 --> 00:37:03,165
Speaker 2: last alternative. That's what it was for me. Every relationship

637
00:37:03,205 --> 00:37:05,925
Speaker 2: is different and they have different reasons. It might be

638
00:37:06,765 --> 00:37:07,405
Speaker 2: I don't know.

639
00:37:07,365 --> 00:37:11,365
Speaker 1: But the feelings are the same. The circumstances might be.

640
00:37:11,525 --> 00:37:15,805
Speaker 1: Whoever said some writer, one of those one of those

641
00:37:16,165 --> 00:37:21,125
Speaker 1: who was it that said every happy family resembles each other,

642
00:37:21,605 --> 00:37:29,485
Speaker 1: but every unhappy family is uniquely unhappy? Who was that? Someone? Someone? Clear?

643
00:37:29,845 --> 00:37:33,325
Speaker 1: But I do often think about that, because there's there's

644
00:37:33,445 --> 00:37:37,525
Speaker 1: just a pataina of happiness that you know, you might

645
00:37:37,605 --> 00:37:40,885
Speaker 1: live in different circumstances or whatever, but happy is happy. Yeah,

646
00:37:41,245 --> 00:37:47,085
Speaker 1: but unhappiness has so many flavors and textures, each more

647
00:37:47,125 --> 00:37:48,365
Speaker 1: gruesome than the last.

648
00:37:49,085 --> 00:37:56,165
Speaker 2: Yeah, they do and yeah, look, it's funny because I

649
00:37:56,325 --> 00:38:00,565
Speaker 2: came out of that experience that the divorce and I

650
00:38:01,005 --> 00:38:03,485
Speaker 2: and maybe this makes me very basic, and maybe everyone

651
00:38:03,525 --> 00:38:06,205
Speaker 2: does this, but I certainly wasn't thinking that I was

652
00:38:06,245 --> 00:38:07,045
Speaker 2: going to repartner.

653
00:38:07,885 --> 00:38:10,925
Speaker 1: I you were like, I'm I'm not doing that again.

654
00:38:11,125 --> 00:38:14,285
Speaker 2: And even without not from a bitter place, it was

655
00:38:14,325 --> 00:38:18,325
Speaker 2: almost the opposite. It was from a place of I'm

656
00:38:18,365 --> 00:38:21,405
Speaker 2: so content. And I heard I've heard a lot of

657
00:38:21,445 --> 00:38:24,285
Speaker 2: women say that they have been lonely after they've got

658
00:38:24,325 --> 00:38:27,405
Speaker 2: divorced or they've had these certain difficulties. I didn't feel

659
00:38:27,405 --> 00:38:31,085
Speaker 2: that I was never lonely. I was surrounded by love,

660
00:38:32,085 --> 00:38:34,925
Speaker 2: I mean, which is just so bet And it's funny.

661
00:38:34,965 --> 00:38:37,205
Speaker 2: I would say I was lucky. And I remember one

662
00:38:37,245 --> 00:38:39,205
Speaker 2: of my friends saying, because I said, I've got an

663
00:38:39,325 --> 00:38:43,405
Speaker 2: army of support, and my friends said to me, You're

664
00:38:43,405 --> 00:38:45,965
Speaker 2: not lucky. You've got an army because you fought in

665
00:38:46,005 --> 00:38:46,685
Speaker 2: the battalion.

666
00:38:48,525 --> 00:38:50,765
Speaker 1: You know, you fought for us, and where are you

667
00:38:50,845 --> 00:38:51,165
Speaker 1: for you?

668
00:38:51,685 --> 00:38:57,005
Speaker 2: And I thought that's nice.

669
00:38:57,525 --> 00:39:02,485
Speaker 1: Next, Sally rethinks what love really looks like thanks to

670
00:39:02,565 --> 00:39:09,565
Speaker 1: the women who carried her through heartbreak. I think that

671
00:39:09,925 --> 00:39:12,125
Speaker 1: when a relationship is failing, and it's one that you're

672
00:39:12,125 --> 00:39:16,085
Speaker 1: really committed to, you tend to try and put resources

673
00:39:16,125 --> 00:39:20,725
Speaker 1: into it to the exclusion of other relationships. So I

674
00:39:20,725 --> 00:39:24,805
Speaker 1: think sometimes people pop out like a meerkat to a

675
00:39:25,125 --> 00:39:27,005
Speaker 1: very bleak savannah. Yep.

676
00:39:27,325 --> 00:39:30,685
Speaker 2: Yes, And I did have that difficulty, which was to

677
00:39:30,725 --> 00:39:34,525
Speaker 2: do with all of the horrible stuff about ending a relationship.

678
00:39:34,525 --> 00:39:37,405
Speaker 2: But my life outside of that, I thought, well, this

679
00:39:37,445 --> 00:39:41,125
Speaker 2: is good. I actually have got quite a good landscape.

680
00:39:41,245 --> 00:39:47,005
Speaker 2: And I was thinking more and more that why is

681
00:39:47,125 --> 00:39:51,365
Speaker 2: romantic love the pinnacle? I have got these women in

682
00:39:51,405 --> 00:39:54,405
Speaker 2: my life, I mean so many, but particularly the ones

683
00:39:54,445 --> 00:39:57,605
Speaker 2: that I've been friends with since I was ten. They're

684
00:39:57,645 --> 00:40:00,285
Speaker 2: my life partners. They're the ones who have been with

685
00:40:00,325 --> 00:40:03,765
Speaker 2: me before any of us met our partners. They are

686
00:40:03,805 --> 00:40:06,365
Speaker 2: with me after partners. They've been through me with me,

687
00:40:06,925 --> 00:40:10,245
Speaker 2: you know, through birth, and we've all been together. Recently,

688
00:40:10,445 --> 00:40:15,005
Speaker 2: one of those friends, her father died, and I remember

689
00:40:15,205 --> 00:40:17,845
Speaker 2: I went up with her when she did the eulogy

690
00:40:17,925 --> 00:40:20,565
Speaker 2: and we looked back and I saw all of our

691
00:40:20,605 --> 00:40:23,365
Speaker 2: girlfriends were in the front row, and I thought, it's

692
00:40:23,365 --> 00:40:27,005
Speaker 2: something moved me about it. I thought, usually, you know,

693
00:40:27,045 --> 00:40:29,005
Speaker 2: you see the family and the parents and whatever, and

694
00:40:29,765 --> 00:40:32,245
Speaker 2: no that was us, that was and that made complete

695
00:40:32,285 --> 00:40:32,805
Speaker 2: sense to me.

696
00:40:33,285 --> 00:40:34,965
Speaker 1: Your significant ones.

697
00:40:34,685 --> 00:40:39,285
Speaker 2: They were We've always been a family. And even if

698
00:40:39,285 --> 00:40:41,845
Speaker 2: there was an is and there now is a romantic

699
00:40:41,885 --> 00:40:45,925
Speaker 2: love again, my life partner partners are those women.

700
00:40:46,805 --> 00:40:50,605
Speaker 1: And are there any men in that number? Not in

701
00:40:50,685 --> 00:40:55,805
Speaker 1: that I have got male friends, Yeah, have those relationships change.

702
00:40:56,925 --> 00:41:00,845
Speaker 2: Well, one of my best male friends has been divorced twice.

703
00:41:01,085 --> 00:41:02,165
Speaker 1: Okay, he was in the.

704
00:41:02,085 --> 00:41:04,245
Speaker 2: Golden Girls for a little while, but then he couldn't

705
00:41:04,245 --> 00:41:06,845
Speaker 2: handle it because there were all these memes about how

706
00:41:06,885 --> 00:41:11,485
Speaker 2: we didn't like men. He okay, was like I Also,

707
00:41:11,845 --> 00:41:15,885
Speaker 2: my brothers were incredibly close and they were huge supports

708
00:41:15,885 --> 00:41:19,765
Speaker 2: to me throughout that. I'm not a hater of men

709
00:41:19,805 --> 00:41:20,445
Speaker 2: in any way.

710
00:41:20,485 --> 00:41:24,165
Speaker 1: I love men. No, I'm just always it seems, you know,

711
00:41:24,245 --> 00:41:27,285
Speaker 1: maybe it's our times or maybe it's been ever thus

712
00:41:27,325 --> 00:41:31,525
Speaker 1: really I don't know. But there's such a gold mine

713
00:41:31,325 --> 00:41:36,005
Speaker 1: the female friends. Yeah, and it doesn't seem to be

714
00:41:38,085 --> 00:41:41,565
Speaker 1: the same crossover with me. Yeah, I mean, I mean

715
00:41:41,565 --> 00:41:43,085
Speaker 1: they're nourishing in a different way.

716
00:41:43,165 --> 00:41:44,565
Speaker 2: They are, and it's good.

717
00:41:44,685 --> 00:41:47,285
Speaker 1: I do believe very much in Yin and yang, and

718
00:41:47,325 --> 00:41:51,205
Speaker 1: I'm not fully on board with women. We're fantastic. We're

719
00:41:51,245 --> 00:41:54,325
Speaker 1: fantastic and men are fact, which seems to be some

720
00:41:54,445 --> 00:42:00,005
Speaker 1: kind of very reviling, very much, very much. And I'm like,

721
00:42:00,085 --> 00:42:02,205
Speaker 1: when did we start to think we were so perfect?

722
00:42:03,445 --> 00:42:07,085
Speaker 1: That's true, it's not helpful. And I, by the way,

723
00:42:07,125 --> 00:42:10,765
Speaker 1: I do think that about myself. That's how I recognize it.

724
00:42:11,605 --> 00:42:14,365
Speaker 1: What you think you have to pull yourself up and

725
00:42:14,405 --> 00:42:16,925
Speaker 1: go hang on a minute. Yeah, why am I always

726
00:42:16,925 --> 00:42:20,565
Speaker 1: trying to knock the top off this scab as though? Yeah,

727
00:42:20,645 --> 00:42:24,005
Speaker 1: I'm the dermatologist. I'm not the dermato.

728
00:42:24,285 --> 00:42:26,165
Speaker 2: We're the dermatologists of our own lives.

729
00:42:26,205 --> 00:42:29,005
Speaker 1: Well we are, and it's good for someone healing.

730
00:42:29,405 --> 00:42:35,085
Speaker 2: Someone's got to be healed. The ointment, Yeah, the made

731
00:42:35,125 --> 00:42:40,565
Speaker 2: me write My thoughts on men are separate from my

732
00:42:40,645 --> 00:42:43,885
Speaker 2: thoughts about romantic love. I think that is what has

733
00:42:43,965 --> 00:42:49,285
Speaker 2: changed for me, as romantic love being the relationship to

734
00:42:49,365 --> 00:42:53,005
Speaker 2: end all relationships, the one who you know you fill

735
00:42:53,005 --> 00:42:55,725
Speaker 2: out on your paperwork, the one who you know.

736
00:42:56,405 --> 00:42:57,085
Speaker 1: When you die.

737
00:42:57,165 --> 00:43:00,085
Speaker 2: They're the chief mourner, you know, all of those things

738
00:43:00,965 --> 00:43:04,925
Speaker 2: that notebook yep, the crying in the rain.

739
00:43:05,605 --> 00:43:06,405
Speaker 1: Romantic love.

740
00:43:07,805 --> 00:43:09,645
Speaker 2: Think you can have that right, Like I've got the

741
00:43:09,685 --> 00:43:14,365
Speaker 2: most beautiful, beautiful man. That that came out of thinking

742
00:43:14,365 --> 00:43:16,685
Speaker 2: I was never going to meet anyone. I wasn't looking

743
00:43:16,685 --> 00:43:18,645
Speaker 2: for anyone. I was you know, my friends were all

744
00:43:19,125 --> 00:43:22,445
Speaker 2: pressuring me to go on Tinder or bumble or whatever.

745
00:43:22,485 --> 00:43:26,085
Speaker 2: It was. No, I don't want, you know, I'm happy.

746
00:43:26,725 --> 00:43:29,885
Speaker 2: And then I met this in real life.

747
00:43:30,845 --> 00:43:33,565
Speaker 1: How in real life because that does not happen now,

748
00:43:34,005 --> 00:43:37,125
Speaker 1: not even in novels. Yeah, I know, Well, so this

749
00:43:37,165 --> 00:43:37,765
Speaker 1: is a good story.

750
00:43:37,805 --> 00:43:45,165
Speaker 2: So I actually did have one date before I met Dan,

751
00:43:45,205 --> 00:43:48,605
Speaker 2: who's my partner. I had one date that was from

752
00:43:48,725 --> 00:43:51,285
Speaker 2: whatever the app was. That was when i'd been away

753
00:43:51,405 --> 00:43:54,485
Speaker 2: on with all my girlfriends. We go away to Nusah

754
00:43:54,525 --> 00:43:56,925
Speaker 2: every year and we have a girls trip, and they

755
00:43:56,965 --> 00:43:58,965
Speaker 2: were it was for them, you know how you married

756
00:43:59,005 --> 00:44:01,325
Speaker 2: friends are just desperate for you know, there's a single

757
00:44:01,485 --> 00:44:06,525
Speaker 2: go on there and they.

758
00:44:04,405 --> 00:44:05,445
Speaker 1: Know more of the.

759
00:44:07,005 --> 00:44:09,005
Speaker 2: Up and I've been swiping the wrong way and I'm

760
00:44:09,005 --> 00:44:11,005
Speaker 2: looking at some guy called Shane with no teeth that

761
00:44:11,045 --> 00:44:15,685
Speaker 2: I've just you know, And I had one date and

762
00:44:15,725 --> 00:44:17,765
Speaker 2: it actually it went quite well. I mean it was

763
00:44:17,805 --> 00:44:19,445
Speaker 2: not I wasn't looking for a relationship, but it was.

764
00:44:19,525 --> 00:44:21,045
Speaker 2: He was a gentleman. It was you know, we had

765
00:44:21,085 --> 00:44:24,005
Speaker 2: a nice did you do it in No, they set

766
00:44:24,005 --> 00:44:25,645
Speaker 2: it up for winter. So I came back from NUSA

767
00:44:25,885 --> 00:44:29,765
Speaker 2: the next night went out a night date. It was

768
00:44:29,805 --> 00:44:34,205
Speaker 2: like six o'clock for a drink. It's all changed since

769
00:44:34,285 --> 00:44:41,245
Speaker 2: our days. Yes, so nervous. He also didn't live in Melbourne,

770
00:44:41,245 --> 00:44:43,805
Speaker 2: which I thought was better because I didn't you know,

771
00:44:43,965 --> 00:44:46,445
Speaker 2: I just wanted to have a nice time and I

772
00:44:46,445 --> 00:44:50,085
Speaker 2: don't know what I don't think I wanted. Okay, great question.

773
00:44:50,325 --> 00:44:54,845
Speaker 2: I wore jeans and a like nice sparkly ballet flat

774
00:44:55,565 --> 00:44:58,245
Speaker 2: and a black I was wearing a white chop and

775
00:44:58,245 --> 00:44:59,445
Speaker 2: all the girls are like, no, you've got to.

776
00:44:59,405 --> 00:45:01,965
Speaker 1: Wear it's been a very heavily workshop.

777
00:45:03,405 --> 00:45:06,845
Speaker 2: And a I think I had on a leather jacket

778
00:45:06,965 --> 00:45:09,085
Speaker 2: or something like that. I felt very unlike me.

779
00:45:09,325 --> 00:45:11,605
Speaker 1: It wasn't the kind of thing, almost like you'd put

780
00:45:11,645 --> 00:45:15,365
Speaker 1: on a costume, yes, which is the Sally goes on

781
00:45:15,365 --> 00:45:17,405
Speaker 1: a first day costures.

782
00:45:17,445 --> 00:45:18,365
Speaker 2: In her forties.

783
00:45:18,645 --> 00:45:20,885
Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, and it was. He was so lovely.

784
00:45:20,925 --> 00:45:23,725
Speaker 2: He was really handsome and made me feel great and

785
00:45:23,765 --> 00:45:26,805
Speaker 2: I went away from it thinking that was really nice.

786
00:45:26,805 --> 00:45:29,525
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'd do it again. So then

787
00:45:30,325 --> 00:45:34,005
Speaker 2: I was in getting my Boatox and it was in

788
00:45:34,045 --> 00:45:37,165
Speaker 2: there and my lady was doing her botox and I

789
00:45:37,205 --> 00:45:39,365
Speaker 2: was telling her about it, and you know, they're like hairdresses.

790
00:45:39,445 --> 00:45:40,445
Speaker 1: She's like, tell me more.

791
00:45:41,085 --> 00:45:44,005
Speaker 2: And then she said, you know what, I've got a

792
00:45:44,045 --> 00:45:47,405
Speaker 2: friend who's been separated recently and he's gorgeous and you

793
00:45:47,445 --> 00:45:51,365
Speaker 2: should meet him. And I was like, oh, I don't know.

794
00:45:52,045 --> 00:45:53,885
Speaker 2: And then she said can I give him your number?

795
00:45:54,045 --> 00:45:57,925
Speaker 2: And I said all right? And then he messaged me, oh,

796
00:45:58,565 --> 00:46:01,805
Speaker 2: I know. And you know what was funny is that

797
00:46:02,485 --> 00:46:07,125
Speaker 2: he he said, so he lived away, lived in on

798
00:46:07,205 --> 00:46:10,325
Speaker 2: the Gold Coast, but he was from Melbourne originally, and

799
00:46:10,885 --> 00:46:12,725
Speaker 2: he said, I'm going to be in Melbourne this week.

800
00:46:12,765 --> 00:46:14,765
Speaker 2: Do you want to have dinner? And I said yes?

801
00:46:15,085 --> 00:46:16,805
Speaker 2: And I was thinking, I don't know if I will

802
00:46:16,925 --> 00:46:20,085
Speaker 2: or not, Like I was very on the fence. And

803
00:46:20,125 --> 00:46:22,725
Speaker 2: on the day I thought, oh, I don't know if

804
00:46:22,765 --> 00:46:24,965
Speaker 2: I'm going to go, and but I just at the

805
00:46:25,005 --> 00:46:28,245
Speaker 2: last night I thought, yeah, I'll go. And it's funny

806
00:46:28,285 --> 00:46:30,445
Speaker 2: I found out later that he'd just flown down for

807
00:46:30,525 --> 00:46:34,005
Speaker 2: the day, Like imagine.

808
00:46:36,045 --> 00:46:39,565
Speaker 1: And look at what he flew down just for the day.

809
00:46:39,925 --> 00:46:40,725
Speaker 2: God love him.

810
00:46:40,765 --> 00:46:45,485
Speaker 1: Oh that's amazing. What was his hunch?

811
00:46:47,725 --> 00:46:50,005
Speaker 2: Well, he said that he had heard about me from

812
00:46:50,045 --> 00:46:53,085
Speaker 2: this friend and he'd cyberstalked me and thought that I

813
00:46:53,125 --> 00:46:53,765
Speaker 2: looked nice.

814
00:46:53,925 --> 00:46:58,285
Speaker 1: Yeah right, that's amazing. And it wasn't you know, it

815
00:46:58,405 --> 00:47:00,685
Speaker 1: wasn't sparks.

816
00:47:01,005 --> 00:47:03,565
Speaker 2: It was just you seem like a really nice person,

817
00:47:03,605 --> 00:47:05,805
Speaker 2: and I really I'd like to get to know you

818
00:47:05,805 --> 00:47:08,325
Speaker 2: more like that, really kind of mature and and then

819
00:47:08,365 --> 00:47:13,325
Speaker 2: it grew over. I think by date three, I was thinking, yeah,

820
00:47:13,325 --> 00:47:15,485
Speaker 2: this is I'm getting a bit swept off.

821
00:47:15,925 --> 00:47:17,245
Speaker 1: How was the geography?

822
00:47:17,805 --> 00:47:18,885
Speaker 2: He's moved back to Melbourne?

823
00:47:19,005 --> 00:47:21,245
Speaker 1: Oh okay after how many dates?

824
00:47:22,605 --> 00:47:25,085
Speaker 2: Well, no, it was about nine months, and so there

825
00:47:25,165 --> 00:47:28,245
Speaker 2: was a nice period of us going back and forth.

826
00:47:28,885 --> 00:47:31,165
Speaker 2: But he worked, he had work in Melbourne, so he'd

827
00:47:31,165 --> 00:47:37,525
Speaker 2: becoming anyway, and and it was lovely and I I'm

828
00:47:37,565 --> 00:47:40,765
Speaker 2: so happy. I'm so different in this relationship.

829
00:47:41,645 --> 00:47:46,685
Speaker 1: It's amazing him what way I.

830
00:47:45,805 --> 00:47:48,485
Speaker 2: Am the poor thing? Because you know, I now I

831
00:47:48,525 --> 00:47:50,485
Speaker 2: do not let one thing go that annoys me.

832
00:47:50,925 --> 00:47:59,085
Speaker 1: Ah right, okay, so the peacekeepers, I just now to

833
00:47:59,085 --> 00:48:00,365
Speaker 1: have a chat all the time.

834
00:48:00,445 --> 00:48:02,205
Speaker 2: Now you know, the thing that you did, I don't

835
00:48:02,245 --> 00:48:05,845
Speaker 2: like that, right, And I encourage him to do that too,

836
00:48:06,925 --> 00:48:09,005
Speaker 2: and he's so good about like what I love I

837
00:48:09,005 --> 00:48:12,845
Speaker 2: think the most masculine trait that exists is for you

838
00:48:12,925 --> 00:48:17,965
Speaker 2: to give them feedback and for them to say, oh, okay, ah,

839
00:48:18,045 --> 00:48:20,245
Speaker 2: thank you for telling me that you know, and not

840
00:48:20,565 --> 00:48:24,125
Speaker 2: being threatened at all or defensive or you know. I

841
00:48:24,165 --> 00:48:26,805
Speaker 2: just think that's so so you're so sure of yourself

842
00:48:26,805 --> 00:48:30,565
Speaker 2: and secure to be able to to take that on

843
00:48:30,645 --> 00:48:34,085
Speaker 2: board and not feel emasculated, or just.

844
00:48:33,965 --> 00:48:35,965
Speaker 1: To actually have a curiosity.

845
00:48:36,285 --> 00:48:38,845
Speaker 2: Yes, And I realized that's all I need. I don't

846
00:48:38,845 --> 00:48:41,125
Speaker 2: even need them to immediately change. It's not that they

847
00:48:41,165 --> 00:48:46,045
Speaker 2: won't do it again. It's that they've said, you're giving

848
00:48:46,165 --> 00:48:47,965
Speaker 2: you know, you're telling me what you want, and I

849
00:48:48,005 --> 00:48:49,445
Speaker 2: want to know that you know.

850
00:48:49,565 --> 00:48:49,845
Speaker 1: I'm not.

851
00:48:50,525 --> 00:48:54,165
Speaker 2: I want to know what makes you happy. I want

852
00:48:54,205 --> 00:48:56,925
Speaker 2: to I hear you, I see you.

853
00:48:57,965 --> 00:49:02,245
Speaker 1: I want to work that kind of softens you. Yes.

854
00:49:02,725 --> 00:49:05,605
Speaker 2: All you need, I think, is to know that someone

855
00:49:06,365 --> 00:49:10,245
Speaker 2: wants that for you, that are in it for you

856
00:49:10,325 --> 00:49:10,885
Speaker 2: as well.

857
00:49:11,165 --> 00:49:13,165
Speaker 1: And it's not just that.

858
00:49:13,565 --> 00:49:17,005
Speaker 2: That's been really healing for me, because I am like that,

859
00:49:17,125 --> 00:49:19,165
Speaker 2: like I will I have. I have a lot of faults,

860
00:49:19,165 --> 00:49:22,605
Speaker 2: but I I really if someone says something or if

861
00:49:22,605 --> 00:49:25,365
Speaker 2: I do the wrong thing, I will say I'm so sorry.

862
00:49:25,965 --> 00:49:30,125
Speaker 2: You know, mea culpa and I don't feel threatened by that.

863
00:49:30,205 --> 00:49:33,445
Speaker 2: And so when people do get defensive, and that was

864
00:49:33,485 --> 00:49:35,805
Speaker 2: one of the problems in my marriage is that you

865
00:49:35,845 --> 00:49:40,325
Speaker 2: don't get anywhere. You know, you you know, I'm trying

866
00:49:40,325 --> 00:49:42,605
Speaker 2: to tell you that I feel this way. Well, I

867
00:49:42,605 --> 00:49:44,325
Speaker 2: don't do that. And by the way, it's you know,

868
00:49:45,045 --> 00:49:47,205
Speaker 2: then it goes nowhere and you just park it and

869
00:49:47,245 --> 00:49:49,765
Speaker 2: it continues to simmer. Whereas I feel like we have

870
00:49:49,925 --> 00:49:54,245
Speaker 2: really in the new relationship, we've really got to know

871
00:49:54,365 --> 00:49:56,725
Speaker 2: each other and find our stride and our own rhythm

872
00:49:56,765 --> 00:50:01,685
Speaker 2: together because we do listen and you know, and work together.

873
00:50:03,365 --> 00:50:03,765
Speaker 2: We want it.

874
00:50:03,845 --> 00:50:07,125
Speaker 1: But you don't live together, no, and you won't I

875
00:50:07,125 --> 00:50:07,725
Speaker 1: don't think so.

876
00:50:08,885 --> 00:50:11,325
Speaker 2: Look I always say I'll never do something, and then

877
00:50:11,885 --> 00:50:14,765
Speaker 2: you know, five minutes later, I think. What's really important

878
00:50:14,805 --> 00:50:19,245
Speaker 2: to me now is that I have my three kids.

879
00:50:19,245 --> 00:50:21,685
Speaker 2: I've got my own house. I want them to have

880
00:50:21,805 --> 00:50:25,525
Speaker 2: their house that is just Mum's, you know, not even house,

881
00:50:25,805 --> 00:50:28,645
Speaker 2: it's their house. I don't want Mum and Dan's house

882
00:50:28,765 --> 00:50:30,325
Speaker 2: or you know, I don't know what's going to happen

883
00:50:30,365 --> 00:50:32,645
Speaker 2: at Christian's house, but I want them to have a

884
00:50:32,685 --> 00:50:37,645
Speaker 2: space that's theirs, and they don't need any more people.

885
00:50:37,765 --> 00:50:41,325
Speaker 2: They don't need to be blending families or to I

886
00:50:41,405 --> 00:50:42,485
Speaker 2: just don't want that to.

887
00:50:42,525 --> 00:50:45,525
Speaker 1: Take on some other emotional load.

888
00:50:45,845 --> 00:50:49,405
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want that for them, And so maybe

889
00:50:49,765 --> 00:50:52,565
Speaker 2: there's a time in the future where they've gone and

890
00:50:52,805 --> 00:50:55,405
Speaker 2: who knows. You know, I'm really happy in this.

891
00:50:55,765 --> 00:50:59,645
Speaker 1: How do you think your writings changed now?

892
00:51:00,565 --> 00:51:02,325
Speaker 2: Some writers said once, I don't know who it is.

893
00:51:02,365 --> 00:51:03,285
Speaker 1: Obviously we know.

894
00:51:03,285 --> 00:51:05,725
Speaker 2: The sayings, we don't know the writer. But they said,

895
00:51:05,765 --> 00:51:10,965
Speaker 2: these characters are a third someone you know, a third

896
00:51:11,005 --> 00:51:15,645
Speaker 2: made up and a third yourself. And while I don't necessarily,

897
00:51:15,765 --> 00:51:21,045
Speaker 2: what I think is myself is the narrative that comes

898
00:51:21,085 --> 00:51:24,285
Speaker 2: on the page. It's not necessarily a character or a thing,

899
00:51:24,365 --> 00:51:28,445
Speaker 2: but it's the wisdom that I'm searching for in that book. Yes,

900
00:51:28,485 --> 00:51:32,245
Speaker 2: and I have a new book coming out later this year.

901
00:51:32,285 --> 00:51:33,205
Speaker 2: It's called Mad Maybe.

902
00:51:33,325 --> 00:51:36,525
Speaker 1: Yes, i've read Mad Maybe part way through with Madbe,

903
00:51:36,805 --> 00:51:42,245
Speaker 1: which is so different than anything that you've done, I think. So.

904
00:51:43,885 --> 00:51:48,045
Speaker 1: I love having a character who's in her eighties. I

905
00:51:48,085 --> 00:51:50,965
Speaker 1: find that, yeah, just amazing, but also that we get

906
00:51:51,005 --> 00:51:54,245
Speaker 1: to see her in her youth. It's really interesting.

907
00:51:54,685 --> 00:51:56,725
Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't had a lot of people read it yet,

908
00:51:56,725 --> 00:51:59,485
Speaker 2: so it's been I love hearing in.

909
00:51:59,405 --> 00:52:05,045
Speaker 1: The Yeah, in the early it's a like a binder.

910
00:52:05,245 --> 00:52:07,405
Speaker 1: Oh they sent your bound, Yeah, I've got Yeah. I

911
00:52:07,405 --> 00:52:08,005
Speaker 1: don't know what.

912
00:52:07,885 --> 00:52:11,725
Speaker 2: That's that's even different from advanced reader copy se.

913
00:52:11,725 --> 00:52:15,125
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I've seen the cover online and I'm like, ah,

914
00:52:15,245 --> 00:52:17,125
Speaker 1: that's what that's how it's going to look.

915
00:52:17,445 --> 00:52:19,245
Speaker 2: Well, I think so the big thing that's come out

916
00:52:19,245 --> 00:52:22,325
Speaker 2: of my life experience is that book in its essence,

917
00:52:22,325 --> 00:52:24,045
Speaker 2: And it's funny because you read the blurb and it's

918
00:52:24,045 --> 00:52:28,205
Speaker 2: about an eighty one year old curmudgeonly you know, I

919
00:52:28,245 --> 00:52:31,765
Speaker 2: had so much joy writing that character who finds her

920
00:52:32,085 --> 00:52:37,725
Speaker 2: neighbor dead and no one suspects anything until they find

921
00:52:37,725 --> 00:52:42,925
Speaker 2: out that she, in fact was not a serial killer,

922
00:52:42,965 --> 00:52:46,605
Speaker 2: like was convicted of murders when she was fifteen years old, and.

923
00:52:46,885 --> 00:52:48,965
Speaker 1: We go back in time to find that out.

924
00:52:49,405 --> 00:52:52,125
Speaker 2: But the book, unlikely as it seems, is about friendship,

925
00:52:52,685 --> 00:52:55,845
Speaker 2: and that comes, of course off the heels of my

926
00:52:57,245 --> 00:52:59,445
Speaker 2: These last two years have been about friendship for me,

927
00:53:00,045 --> 00:53:04,245
Speaker 2: so much hurt and everything, but the way that friends

928
00:53:04,285 --> 00:53:09,165
Speaker 2: can save you. And this book what I wanted to

929
00:53:09,365 --> 00:53:13,845
Speaker 2: explore was can one friend save you? Is that enough?

930
00:53:13,885 --> 00:53:16,925
Speaker 2: And what if you don't have one friend? What happens

931
00:53:16,925 --> 00:53:18,325
Speaker 2: to you then?

932
00:53:18,845 --> 00:53:20,565
Speaker 1: And so I don't know. It's funny because she's been

933
00:53:20,565 --> 00:53:25,165
Speaker 1: the sort of because she's so prickly and combative, it's

934
00:53:25,165 --> 00:53:27,765
Speaker 1: almost like she's wanted to keep the world at bay.

935
00:53:27,845 --> 00:53:32,125
Speaker 1: But she's also you can't help but love her good.

936
00:53:32,965 --> 00:53:34,965
Speaker 2: Well, she's vulnerable, Like even the people that want to

937
00:53:35,045 --> 00:53:37,005
Speaker 2: keep the world at bay, they're probably.

938
00:53:36,645 --> 00:53:37,605
Speaker 1: The most vulnerable.

939
00:53:37,605 --> 00:53:39,565
Speaker 2: There's a reason that you do that. As humans, we

940
00:53:39,605 --> 00:53:43,205
Speaker 2: want to connect. And yeah, like there is a kind

941
00:53:43,285 --> 00:53:47,685
Speaker 2: of hope, a layered story about that, and all of

942
00:53:47,725 --> 00:53:52,445
Speaker 2: that comes from my experience over the last couple of

943
00:53:52,525 --> 00:53:57,645
Speaker 2: years and the importance that friendship has. And it's dedicated

944
00:53:57,685 --> 00:54:02,685
Speaker 2: to my best friend Sash, who has just been diagnosed

945
00:54:02,685 --> 00:54:06,085
Speaker 2: for the second time with triple negative breast cancer. She's

946
00:54:06,125 --> 00:54:10,925
Speaker 2: going through treatment at the moment again you know, it's

947
00:54:11,125 --> 00:54:15,205
Speaker 2: it's it's it's been so difficult. But the thing, and

948
00:54:15,245 --> 00:54:17,485
Speaker 2: she talks about it all the time, is I've got

949
00:54:17,525 --> 00:54:21,085
Speaker 2: my girls, you know, I've got and we just know

950
00:54:21,165 --> 00:54:23,125
Speaker 2: what to do and we just rally and we support

951
00:54:23,205 --> 00:54:26,885
Speaker 2: and we'll get her through it. And there is the

952
00:54:27,605 --> 00:54:31,725
Speaker 2: it's so horrible and it's so difficult for her, you know,

953
00:54:32,485 --> 00:54:35,285
Speaker 2: it's so difficult to watch her go through that. But

954
00:54:35,325 --> 00:54:37,925
Speaker 2: at the same time, and this is what I felt

955
00:54:37,925 --> 00:54:42,365
Speaker 2: about my divorce, there's this beautifulness of it, of the

956
00:54:42,405 --> 00:54:46,165
Speaker 2: way that we just move around each other at these

957
00:54:46,205 --> 00:54:49,805
Speaker 2: difficult times, and that's the stuff that it just moves

958
00:54:49,845 --> 00:54:55,125
Speaker 2: me in a way that I don't think any I

959
00:54:55,365 --> 00:54:58,165
Speaker 2: don't know, Like, I don't know why that love doesn't

960
00:54:58,165 --> 00:54:59,485
Speaker 2: have that same company.

961
00:55:01,125 --> 00:55:07,285
Speaker 1: My girlfriend of mine had breast catcer last year before last.

962
00:55:08,485 --> 00:55:15,005
Speaker 1: And it does. What it makes you do is you

963
00:55:15,805 --> 00:55:20,365
Speaker 1: can't hold anything back, no, because it's a currency you've

964
00:55:20,445 --> 00:55:26,405
Speaker 1: just got to spend. Yeah, and sometimes the watching everyone

965
00:55:26,605 --> 00:55:32,605
Speaker 1: bring it is, like you said, just beautiful, cruel but beautiful. Yeah.

966
00:55:33,605 --> 00:55:35,765
Speaker 2: I always think, look to the helpers, you know. Another

967
00:55:35,845 --> 00:55:38,805
Speaker 2: one I don't know who said that.

968
00:55:39,365 --> 00:55:41,805
Speaker 1: Someone did say that look to the helper? Was it?

969
00:55:41,805 --> 00:55:43,925
Speaker 1: It was someone that was not a writer. I think

970
00:55:43,965 --> 00:55:46,725
Speaker 1: that was like a Michelle O. But like that, she

971
00:55:46,845 --> 00:55:53,325
Speaker 1: always says the good things. But yeah, oh I don't

972
00:55:53,325 --> 00:55:53,525
Speaker 1: have it.

973
00:55:53,845 --> 00:55:58,645
Speaker 2: No, I'm fine. That's what friendship is. It's the hard

974
00:55:58,725 --> 00:56:01,325
Speaker 2: and it's the beautiful. And I don't know anyone who's

975
00:56:01,605 --> 00:56:04,085
Speaker 2: you know, I'm forty five and I don't know any

976
00:56:04,125 --> 00:56:08,605
Speaker 2: forty five year olds that haven't been through something really difficult.

977
00:56:09,525 --> 00:56:13,885
Speaker 2: And we know more difficult stuff is going to come,

978
00:56:14,165 --> 00:56:17,045
Speaker 2: you know, hopefully, because that means we're alive, and that's

979
00:56:17,045 --> 00:56:17,805
Speaker 2: more difficult things.

980
00:56:17,845 --> 00:56:21,165
Speaker 1: I always said that in yoga class. I'm always like, yeah,

981
00:56:21,205 --> 00:56:26,445
Speaker 1: because there are is. If you're about discomfort, yes, yes,

982
00:56:26,485 --> 00:56:31,245
Speaker 1: it's about discomfort. And so they'll often say the temporary

983
00:56:31,245 --> 00:56:36,125
Speaker 1: discomfort in the in this class or in the practice

984
00:56:36,125 --> 00:56:40,965
Speaker 1: of yoga helps you take on the discomforts that are

985
00:56:40,965 --> 00:56:45,925
Speaker 1: coming for you in life. And I can't wait, but

986
00:56:45,965 --> 00:56:46,885
Speaker 1: it is true.

987
00:56:47,245 --> 00:56:50,245
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I heard a similar saying, which was, you know,

988
00:56:50,605 --> 00:56:52,925
Speaker 2: it was something to do with waves. So it's you know,

989
00:56:53,005 --> 00:56:55,445
Speaker 2: you stand in the water in the ocean and the

990
00:56:55,485 --> 00:56:59,405
Speaker 2: waves come. You know, hopefully you get a gap between them.

991
00:56:59,405 --> 00:57:01,845
Speaker 2: But your role is to learn how to swim because

992
00:57:01,845 --> 00:57:04,165
Speaker 2: you know the next one is coming. You know, you

993
00:57:04,205 --> 00:57:06,725
Speaker 2: can't just get bold, you know, if you do, just

994
00:57:06,725 --> 00:57:09,525
Speaker 2: get bold over But if you learn to swim, then

995
00:57:09,845 --> 00:57:12,245
Speaker 2: that each time you learn a bit more than you're

996
00:57:12,245 --> 00:57:13,845
Speaker 2: going to be ready for the ones that are coming.

997
00:57:14,085 --> 00:57:17,965
Speaker 1: Okay, that's very interesting because that is. I like that.

998
00:57:18,245 --> 00:57:21,845
Speaker 1: Sometimes I think that we don't allow ourselves or we

999
00:57:21,885 --> 00:57:25,525
Speaker 1: don't emphasize enough how much agency we play in our

1000
00:57:25,565 --> 00:57:28,885
Speaker 1: own lives, or how much opportunity there is given. As

1001
00:57:28,925 --> 00:57:31,285
Speaker 1: you said earlier, like it's a privilege to be able

1002
00:57:31,325 --> 00:57:34,725
Speaker 1: to even think like that, really, because some people are

1003
00:57:34,765 --> 00:57:37,725
Speaker 1: just bowled over by waves and can't even get back

1004
00:57:37,765 --> 00:57:41,325
Speaker 1: on their knees. But you've got to teach yourself to swim,

1005
00:57:41,365 --> 00:57:48,525
Speaker 1: you do, and really probably teach yourself, as you have

1006
00:57:48,645 --> 00:57:51,885
Speaker 1: done with your girlfriends, to not only save yourself, but

1007
00:57:52,165 --> 00:57:56,325
Speaker 1: try and save someone else while you're at it. That

1008
00:57:56,485 --> 00:57:57,525
Speaker 1: is almost.

1009
00:57:58,645 --> 00:58:04,725
Speaker 2: I think it's the key to getting through something is

1010
00:58:04,765 --> 00:58:08,085
Speaker 2: to focus on someone else, right, And I you know,

1011
00:58:08,405 --> 00:58:12,805
Speaker 2: as terrible as as you know my friend's illness is,

1012
00:58:12,925 --> 00:58:15,125
Speaker 2: I do think that it pulled me out of a depression.

1013
00:58:15,165 --> 00:58:17,445
Speaker 2: I think I've been in a mild depression for a

1014
00:58:17,485 --> 00:58:20,125
Speaker 2: couple of years, and as soon as I knew that

1015
00:58:20,165 --> 00:58:24,885
Speaker 2: she needed me, Yeah, it does. Yeah, you know, then

1016
00:58:24,965 --> 00:58:27,165
Speaker 2: you you're out of it and there's something more important

1017
00:58:27,205 --> 00:58:29,845
Speaker 2: than you. And I think that is the key to

1018
00:58:30,965 --> 00:58:34,605
Speaker 2: you know, you steal yourself and you heal, but then

1019
00:58:34,725 --> 00:58:37,805
Speaker 2: look out to the world again because it's not you know,

1020
00:58:37,845 --> 00:58:41,165
Speaker 2: you can spend so much time looking inward and there's

1021
00:58:41,165 --> 00:58:44,005
Speaker 2: self love and everything, but actually sometimes the most loving

1022
00:58:44,045 --> 00:58:46,725
Speaker 2: thing is to look outwards and go and help someone.

1023
00:58:46,485 --> 00:58:50,205
Speaker 1: Else because also then that reminds you once again of

1024
00:58:50,245 --> 00:58:55,045
Speaker 1: what you're capable of. Yeah, it's a strange gift to

1025
00:58:55,645 --> 00:58:56,365
Speaker 1: be given.

1026
00:58:56,725 --> 00:59:01,165
Speaker 2: Exactly, and it's almost you know, having friendship is such

1027
00:59:01,205 --> 00:59:03,325
Speaker 2: a blessing, but it's even better to be a friend,

1028
00:59:03,405 --> 00:59:06,085
Speaker 2: you know. That actually is a better feeling in a way.

1029
00:59:06,125 --> 00:59:10,725
Speaker 1: Oh my god, someone said it's better to give than receipt.

1030
00:59:11,205 --> 00:59:13,125
Speaker 1: That would have been someone smart.

1031
00:59:14,805 --> 00:59:20,045
Speaker 2: Just attribute them to like random people people that is,

1032
00:59:21,325 --> 00:59:23,085
Speaker 2: so let us know who said them all.

1033
00:59:23,405 --> 00:59:26,565
Speaker 1: Hey, what's Sally Hepworth's future?

1034
00:59:26,845 --> 00:59:32,765
Speaker 2: Well, on the tenth of August, my first book to TV.

1035
00:59:33,405 --> 00:59:39,245
Speaker 1: Oh yes, serious coming so many at once because it's

1036
00:59:39,405 --> 00:59:43,045
Speaker 1: the Family next Door. Also Darling Girls.

1037
00:59:43,245 --> 00:59:48,765
Speaker 2: So Darling Girls has been optioned and that is currently

1038
00:59:49,885 --> 00:59:52,645
Speaker 2: a writer has been attached and she's working on the script.

1039
00:59:53,325 --> 00:59:54,845
Speaker 1: Was that that Amy Pohler thing.

1040
00:59:54,725 --> 00:59:58,045
Speaker 2: Who Amy Polar optioned the mother in law, The mother

1041
00:59:58,085 --> 01:00:02,485
Speaker 2: in law and the soulmate has also been optioned.

1042
01:00:02,885 --> 01:00:04,765
Speaker 1: I saw that with Asher.

1043
01:00:04,645 --> 01:00:07,525
Speaker 2: Yes Asha Kitty is attached, which is amazing, and she's

1044
01:00:07,605 --> 01:00:11,605
Speaker 2: going to produce. And also so my short story Uncharted

1045
01:00:11,885 --> 01:00:12,765
Speaker 2: Waters has been.

1046
01:00:13,285 --> 01:00:17,645
Speaker 4: Short stories that you googled how to write a short story,

1047
01:00:18,885 --> 01:00:23,285
Speaker 4: and Blossom, which is Nicole Kidman's production company has optioned that.

1048
01:00:24,045 --> 01:00:27,445
Speaker 2: The thing about the options is that they come in

1049
01:00:27,445 --> 01:00:31,005
Speaker 2: that's so exciting, and then it goes quiet. Yeah, yeah,

1050
01:00:31,045 --> 01:00:34,005
Speaker 2: and sometimes nothing happens, or sometimes a lot of things

1051
01:00:34,005 --> 01:00:36,845
Speaker 2: are happening behind the scenes and I'm getting on with

1052
01:00:36,925 --> 01:00:37,325
Speaker 2: my life.

1053
01:00:37,365 --> 01:00:41,845
Speaker 1: So optioning is when people a production company will say

1054
01:00:42,605 --> 01:00:45,725
Speaker 1: we love this, we want to do something with it.

1055
01:00:46,525 --> 01:00:48,965
Speaker 1: You enter into an arrangement. But as we know, it

1056
01:00:48,965 --> 01:00:51,725
Speaker 1: could take years for things to get produced.

1057
01:00:51,365 --> 01:00:54,245
Speaker 2: Ore and nothing can happen. What they do is they

1058
01:00:54,245 --> 01:00:56,605
Speaker 2: buy the rights to have no one else look at

1059
01:00:56,645 --> 01:00:59,165
Speaker 2: it for a period of time, so it's theirs to

1060
01:00:59,245 --> 01:01:00,645
Speaker 2: try and get it off the ground, to.

1061
01:01:00,565 --> 01:01:04,285
Speaker 1: Try also landing all at once, these little ships that

1062
01:01:04,405 --> 01:01:06,365
Speaker 1: you sent out to see.

1063
01:01:06,245 --> 01:01:09,445
Speaker 2: It does feel like over the last and finally the

1064
01:01:09,525 --> 01:01:13,525
Speaker 2: last two years, as my personal life's been imploding, a

1065
01:01:13,565 --> 01:01:17,325
Speaker 2: lot of a lot of things have been hitting. Do

1066
01:01:17,405 --> 01:01:21,885
Speaker 2: you think it's I do think that sometimes when you've

1067
01:01:21,965 --> 01:01:25,805
Speaker 2: gone through a period where you've set yourself free, that

1068
01:01:25,925 --> 01:01:30,165
Speaker 2: it's you entered this kind of flow state and suddenly

1069
01:01:30,245 --> 01:01:31,005
Speaker 2: things change.

1070
01:01:31,045 --> 01:01:33,125
Speaker 1: Do you think that's happened? I do, I do.

1071
01:01:33,205 --> 01:01:36,605
Speaker 2: I believe in that. I've also a woman of my forties.

1072
01:01:36,645 --> 01:01:39,805
Speaker 2: I also do yoga, I have crystals. I've become very

1073
01:01:40,165 --> 01:01:43,525
Speaker 2: much into the universe and you know, putting my feet

1074
01:01:43,565 --> 01:01:45,965
Speaker 2: in the grass and doing all of that. And I

1075
01:01:46,005 --> 01:01:52,285
Speaker 2: do believe so much in signs, in energy, in things

1076
01:01:52,285 --> 01:01:53,245
Speaker 2: falling into your lap.

1077
01:01:53,445 --> 01:01:56,885
Speaker 1: At all mad for it. I'm thinking about buying an

1078
01:01:56,885 --> 01:02:01,085
Speaker 1: earthing sheet. I've got one. Have you done with the core?

1079
01:02:01,365 --> 01:02:04,685
Speaker 1: Have you got one with you? Is it a plug

1080
01:02:04,725 --> 01:02:07,005
Speaker 1: in one or one where you run I've been looking

1081
01:02:07,005 --> 01:02:09,365
Speaker 1: at a real bonkers one from Canada or whatever. You

1082
01:02:09,485 --> 01:02:13,525
Speaker 1: have to run a copper cable outside your window into.

1083
01:02:13,365 --> 01:02:16,485
Speaker 2: The ground, Yes, no, mind's not mine. It has the copper,

1084
01:02:16,525 --> 01:02:17,845
Speaker 2: but it plugs.

1085
01:02:17,485 --> 01:02:21,205
Speaker 1: In, plugs in. Does it work with electricity for grounding?

1086
01:02:21,325 --> 01:02:21,365
Speaker 2: No?

1087
01:02:21,845 --> 01:02:23,165
Speaker 1: Like, how would you know if it works?

1088
01:02:23,165 --> 01:02:24,405
Speaker 2: That's a beautiful thing about it.

1089
01:02:24,485 --> 01:02:28,085
Speaker 1: You look really healthy that I'm going off.

1090
01:02:28,285 --> 01:02:31,765
Speaker 2: I oh everything like that I've done. Yeah, I love

1091
01:02:31,845 --> 01:02:34,165
Speaker 2: that stut can't get enough of it.

1092
01:02:34,485 --> 01:02:37,485
Speaker 1: And I'm mad on supplements this could go all day.

1093
01:02:38,525 --> 01:02:42,485
Speaker 1: This could go all day, Sally, hepworth. What an absolute

1094
01:02:43,005 --> 01:02:45,965
Speaker 1: duel you are in the crown of artists.

1095
01:02:47,005 --> 01:02:49,245
Speaker 2: I love this. That is that some something someone said?

1096
01:02:49,325 --> 01:02:51,085
Speaker 2: Is that a writer? We don't Lainbrook.

1097
01:02:51,325 --> 01:02:54,445
Speaker 1: She wrote this book called chow Bella. It says it's

1098
01:02:54,485 --> 01:02:56,365
Speaker 1: not on that, but it's pretty good.

1099
01:02:57,085 --> 01:02:58,005
Speaker 2: It's wonderful I've read.

1100
01:02:58,445 --> 01:03:01,525
Speaker 1: Oh, I brought a gift for you because I've got

1101
01:03:01,565 --> 01:03:03,365
Speaker 1: your soul package I loved.

1102
01:03:04,045 --> 01:03:05,245
Speaker 2: I can have a signed copy.

1103
01:03:05,445 --> 01:03:08,365
Speaker 1: I have it at home. Oh, I wanted to give

1104
01:03:08,405 --> 01:03:08,725
Speaker 1: you that.

1105
01:03:08,965 --> 01:03:11,165
Speaker 2: We still take it, but look and sign.

1106
01:03:10,965 --> 01:03:12,885
Speaker 1: You to sign the soul mate. But when I bought it,

1107
01:03:13,285 --> 01:03:18,205
Speaker 1: I already bought a signed one. Well I can personalize. Yeah, okay, good,

1108
01:03:18,245 --> 01:03:21,645
Speaker 1: we're going to do that. I'll see you in five months.

1109
01:03:21,645 --> 01:03:24,565
Speaker 1: We'll have our chat about AI is now doing everything

1110
01:03:24,605 --> 01:03:28,165
Speaker 1: for you. Look forward and may your ship box always

1111
01:03:28,205 --> 01:03:32,125
Speaker 1: be full in the best way.

1112
01:03:32,845 --> 01:03:35,765
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you. This has been lovely.

1113
01:03:39,565 --> 01:03:42,005
Speaker 1: Sally and I could have talked all day, and in

1114
01:03:42,045 --> 01:03:47,125
Speaker 1: fact we very nearly did, and it just struck me

1115
01:03:47,205 --> 01:03:51,805
Speaker 1: how generous and open she is. Even sometimes in the

1116
01:03:51,845 --> 01:03:53,885
Speaker 1: parts of your life that are kind of shadowy and

1117
01:03:53,925 --> 01:03:57,645
Speaker 1: your inclination is to try and cover them up. She's

1118
01:03:57,885 --> 01:04:02,485
Speaker 1: just spreading sunshine through herself and to those around her.

1119
01:04:03,445 --> 01:04:08,525
Speaker 1: It's always fascinating when the storyteller becomes the story. Sally's

1120
01:04:08,565 --> 01:04:12,845
Speaker 1: life has in ways she never saw coming, and she's

1121
01:04:12,925 --> 01:04:17,605
Speaker 1: done what so many women do. She's carried on. But

1122
01:04:17,765 --> 01:04:21,245
Speaker 1: what stayed with me was this When everything falls apart,

1123
01:04:22,125 --> 01:04:26,205
Speaker 1: Sally doesn't pretend to have the answers, She just keeps

1124
01:04:26,485 --> 01:04:31,205
Speaker 1: showing up. The executive producer of No Filter is Nama

1125
01:04:31,285 --> 01:04:35,245
Speaker 1: Brown and the senior producer is Bree Player. Audio production

1126
01:04:35,365 --> 01:04:38,765
Speaker 1: is by Jacob Brown and I am your host, Kate

1127
01:04:38,845 --> 01:04:41,525
Speaker 1: lane Brook. Thank you so much for sharing No Filter

1128
01:04:41,725 --> 01:04:42,005
Speaker 1: with me.

1129
01:04:50,365 --> 01:04:53,725
Speaker 5: Hello, it's Naima here, the executive producer of No Filter

1130
01:04:53,925 --> 01:04:57,805
Speaker 5: bringing you a sample of Mamma MIA's women's health podcast Well,

1131
01:04:58,325 --> 01:05:03,085
Speaker 5: hosted by doctor Merriam and Claire Murphy. This week's episode

1132
01:05:03,125 --> 01:05:06,405
Speaker 5: is about pregnancy, but that's not all. They'll also take

1133
01:05:06,445 --> 01:05:08,805
Speaker 5: you to mad school to talk about why you might

1134
01:05:08,885 --> 01:05:11,405
Speaker 5: get a pair in your butt when you have your period,

1135
01:05:11,885 --> 01:05:15,565
Speaker 5: and do a quick consult about testosterone during Perry.

1136
01:05:16,205 --> 01:05:17,045
Speaker 1: If you want to.

1137
01:05:17,005 --> 01:05:20,525
Speaker 5: Hear the full episode, Well is your Full Body Health

1138
01:05:20,605 --> 01:05:23,165
Speaker 5: Check and drops every week on a Thursday.

1139
01:05:23,405 --> 01:05:26,285
Speaker 6: This episode of Well is brought to you in partnership

1140
01:05:26,325 --> 01:05:33,965
Speaker 6: with Clear Blue Australian Women.

1141
01:05:34,285 --> 01:05:37,045
Speaker 7: Welcome to your full body health check. I'm Claire Murphy

1142
01:05:37,165 --> 01:05:39,285
Speaker 7: and for the sake of today's episode, because we are

1143
01:05:39,325 --> 01:05:41,805
Speaker 7: talking about pregnancy, I'll let you know that I have

1144
01:05:41,925 --> 01:05:45,045
Speaker 7: been pregnant twice in my life. Once when I was

1145
01:05:45,085 --> 01:05:47,685
Speaker 7: a very young teenager, which is a pregnancy I chose

1146
01:05:47,725 --> 01:05:51,005
Speaker 7: to terminate and have zero regrets about. And then I

1147
01:05:51,045 --> 01:05:54,565
Speaker 7: got pregnant again at thirty five, where I was wonderfully

1148
01:05:54,565 --> 01:05:58,645
Speaker 7: called a geriatric pregnancy, and that resulted in my small human.

1149
01:05:58,765 --> 01:06:02,405
Speaker 3: And I'm doctor Mariam a GP, a mother and someone

1150
01:06:02,445 --> 01:06:05,645
Speaker 3: who has lived the full spectrum of the fertility journey,

1151
01:06:06,005 --> 01:06:10,045
Speaker 3: from the heartbreak of my firstborn, Samuel was still birth,

1152
01:06:10,525 --> 01:06:14,285
Speaker 3: to three miscarriages and two years of infertility. My path

1153
01:06:14,325 --> 01:06:17,165
Speaker 3: has been anything but easy, but it led me to

1154
01:06:17,245 --> 01:06:21,325
Speaker 3: my greatest blessings, my beautiful rainbow two boys, Zak and Jagin.

1155
01:06:27,765 --> 01:06:30,365
Speaker 7: Thank you so much for sharing that. I know that

1156
01:06:30,685 --> 01:06:33,365
Speaker 7: sometimes with your self and with friends of mine who've

1157
01:06:33,405 --> 01:06:37,045
Speaker 7: really struggled to get pregnant and to have babies, it's

1158
01:06:37,365 --> 01:06:40,085
Speaker 7: it's a really emotional thing to talk about especially all

1159
01:06:40,085 --> 01:06:43,405
Speaker 7: the losses too. So but I think it's interesting to

1160
01:06:43,485 --> 01:06:47,365
Speaker 7: note that, like our pregnancy journeys could not be more different,

1161
01:06:47,725 --> 01:06:51,645
Speaker 7: Like it's such a vast array of experiences involved in

1162
01:06:51,845 --> 01:06:54,925
Speaker 7: getting pregnant, being pregnant, and having babies. Because I was

1163
01:06:54,965 --> 01:06:57,325
Speaker 7: the discussion with my husband worders went, should I just

1164
01:06:57,325 --> 01:06:59,325
Speaker 7: stop taking the pill? And like if it happens, it happens,

1165
01:06:59,325 --> 01:07:01,005
Speaker 7: and if it doesn't, it doesn't, and he's like, yeah, cool,

1166
01:07:01,005 --> 01:07:02,485
Speaker 7: and then it did and it was just like and

1167
01:07:02,525 --> 01:07:03,485
Speaker 7: then we're like, cool, do you it? I want to

1168
01:07:03,485 --> 01:07:05,365
Speaker 7: do it again? And we're like not really, it's one

1169
01:07:05,405 --> 01:07:08,645
Speaker 7: and done. We could yeah, very very different perspectives. And

1170
01:07:09,365 --> 01:07:10,965
Speaker 7: in case you haven't worked it out, we are talking

1171
01:07:10,965 --> 01:07:14,485
Speaker 7: about being up the Duff today with child prego bun

1172
01:07:14,485 --> 01:07:16,525
Speaker 7: in the oven however you would like to refer to it.

1173
01:07:17,045 --> 01:07:18,165
Speaker 8: We will find out what's.

1174
01:07:18,005 --> 01:07:22,285
Speaker 7: Happening to your internals and it is a lot. And

1175
01:07:22,405 --> 01:07:24,525
Speaker 7: we have a quick consult for Tony who's been seeing

1176
01:07:24,645 --> 01:07:27,485
Speaker 7: a bunch of people on her feed talking about a

1177
01:07:27,485 --> 01:07:30,045
Speaker 7: hormone that she thinks that maybe she might need to

1178
01:07:30,205 --> 01:07:33,045
Speaker 7: but her understanding is is that it's something that is

1179
01:07:33,165 --> 01:07:37,045
Speaker 7: exclusively for men now Mariam, I have found out something

1180
01:07:37,165 --> 01:07:39,845
Speaker 7: very interesting about women's buttholes.

1181
01:07:41,205 --> 01:07:44,085
Speaker 8: Go for it. I've said this before, I will say

1182
01:07:44,125 --> 01:07:44,525
Speaker 8: this again.

1183
01:07:44,645 --> 01:07:46,965
Speaker 7: I am a deeply immature human being, and I will

1184
01:07:47,045 --> 01:07:48,605
Speaker 7: laugh every time I see butoles.

1185
01:07:48,645 --> 01:07:49,245
Speaker 1: But here we go.

1186
01:07:50,125 --> 01:07:53,845
Speaker 7: Something happens to some of our buttholes during our period.

1187
01:07:54,045 --> 01:07:55,525
Speaker 1: Yep, we need answers.

1188
01:07:55,525 --> 01:07:57,725
Speaker 7: This is very serious medicine, Mariam.

1189
01:07:57,725 --> 01:07:59,685
Speaker 3: I want to know where this conversation is going.

1190
01:08:00,045 --> 01:08:03,685
Speaker 1: Let's go to med school. Welcome to med school, Mariam.

1191
01:08:03,685 --> 01:08:07,085
Speaker 7: We've discussed all types of pain that women might experience

1192
01:08:07,085 --> 01:08:10,845
Speaker 7: from various things, but have you you ever experienced a

1193
01:08:10,965 --> 01:08:12,685
Speaker 7: proctalgia fugax?

1194
01:08:13,005 --> 01:08:13,845
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.

1195
01:08:13,845 --> 01:08:14,725
Speaker 8: Now, this is something that.

1196
01:08:14,645 --> 01:08:16,805
Speaker 7: Happens to a lot of women when they have their periods.

1197
01:08:16,845 --> 01:08:19,245
Speaker 7: So you might just be, you know, walking along, minding

1198
01:08:19,245 --> 01:08:23,365
Speaker 7: your own damn business when you're hit with a really short,

1199
01:08:23,645 --> 01:08:27,725
Speaker 7: sharp pain in your buttthole that feels like someone shoved

1200
01:08:27,725 --> 01:08:29,845
Speaker 7: a hop knife up there for a second. Yep, it

1201
01:08:29,965 --> 01:08:34,765
Speaker 7: is like butt lightning. It's reportedly super normal, quite harmless.

1202
01:08:34,805 --> 01:08:37,685
Speaker 7: It's a spasm in the anal sphincter or pelvic floor muscles.

1203
01:08:38,125 --> 01:08:40,725
Speaker 7: The pain can last somewhere between a few seconds, which

1204
01:08:40,725 --> 01:08:43,165
Speaker 7: I think is what the majority of us have probably experienced.

1205
01:08:43,485 --> 01:08:47,245
Speaker 7: Two Way recorded ninety minutes, which sounds like the worst

1206
01:08:47,325 --> 01:08:50,925
Speaker 7: day ever. Marriam, do you get butt lightning on your period?

1207
01:08:51,645 --> 01:08:52,325
Speaker 8: Butt lightning?

1208
01:08:52,445 --> 01:08:56,005
Speaker 3: Yes, so proctalgia four gucks. It sounds like a Harry

1209
01:08:56,045 --> 01:08:59,645
Speaker 3: Potter spell. It steels more like a curse. Yes, I've

1210
01:08:59,685 --> 01:09:02,005
Speaker 3: had that surprise up and it's usually.

1211
01:09:01,685 --> 01:09:04,045
Speaker 8: Like surprise that it's exactly what that is.

1212
01:09:04,125 --> 01:09:07,885
Speaker 3: It's usually in the Coles freezer ales I've gotten us.

1213
01:09:08,285 --> 01:09:12,525
Speaker 8: That's where your butt decides to betray you to the

1214
01:09:12,685 --> 01:09:18,885
Speaker 8: bat or a butt triggered by the cold. Oh my goodness.

1215
01:09:19,365 --> 01:09:19,605
Speaker 1: Yes.

1216
01:09:19,845 --> 01:09:23,885
Speaker 7: So if you are just randomly sitting there and it's

1217
01:09:23,965 --> 01:09:27,525
Speaker 7: like Harry Potter ZAPPEDI with his wand in your buttthole,

1218
01:09:27,885 --> 01:09:31,685
Speaker 7: it's totally fine. Don't stress. From spiky buttholes to actually

1219
01:09:31,685 --> 01:09:32,445
Speaker 7: being up the dove.

1220
01:09:32,525 --> 01:09:33,885
Speaker 1: Today's check up is.

1221
01:09:33,885 --> 01:09:35,445
Speaker 7: All things pregnancy.

1222
01:09:38,165 --> 01:09:41,885
Speaker 6: When you're trying to get pregnant, timing is everything. With

1223
01:09:42,045 --> 01:09:46,325
Speaker 6: only a few precious days each cycle, it's not surprising

1224
01:09:46,445 --> 01:09:49,085
Speaker 6: that one in two couples may be trying to conceive

1225
01:09:49,285 --> 01:09:53,725
Speaker 6: at the wrong time. That's where clear Blue Advanced Digital

1226
01:09:53,765 --> 01:09:57,325
Speaker 6: Ovulation test comes in. You can double your chances of

1227
01:09:57,365 --> 01:10:00,645
Speaker 6: getting pregnant in your first cycle of use versus not

1228
01:10:00,925 --> 01:10:05,125
Speaker 6: using ovulation tests. Plus, you can download the free clear

1229
01:10:05,165 --> 01:10:08,205
Speaker 6: Blue Period and Cycle Tracking app to keep a diary.

1230
01:10:08,805 --> 01:10:12,005
Speaker 6: Double your chances of getting pregnant with the clear Blue

1231
01:10:12,285 --> 01:10:16,525
Speaker 6: Advanced Digital Ovulation Test. Always read the label and follow

1232
01:10:16,565 --> 01:10:17,645
Speaker 6: the directions for use.

1233
01:10:21,405 --> 01:10:25,205
Speaker 7: It's time for the checkup, okay, Maeric, can we talk

1234
01:10:25,245 --> 01:10:28,805
Speaker 7: about the first trimester? What is actually happening in your

1235
01:10:28,845 --> 01:10:33,285
Speaker 7: body when you conceive and why a first Trimestermum'm so tired.

1236
01:10:33,605 --> 01:10:38,205
Speaker 3: So when you conceive, your body immediately kicks into pregnancy gear, right.

1237
01:10:38,245 --> 01:10:41,445
Speaker 3: It wants to support that tiny new life. The fertilized

1238
01:10:41,485 --> 01:10:44,245
Speaker 3: egging plants itself into the lining of your uterus, which

1239
01:10:44,285 --> 01:10:48,565
Speaker 3: starts releasing hormones like hCG and progesterone. And those womens

1240
01:10:48,645 --> 01:10:50,925
Speaker 3: do a bunch of jobs. They keep the pregnancy going,

1241
01:10:51,005 --> 01:10:53,965
Speaker 3: they stop your periods, and they start preparing your body

1242
01:10:53,965 --> 01:10:57,005
Speaker 3: for the months ahead. So why are we all so

1243
01:10:57,205 --> 01:11:02,085
Speaker 3: exhausted during that first trimester? It's always the hormones, same hormones.

1244
01:11:02,125 --> 01:11:02,365
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1245
01:11:02,485 --> 01:11:06,645
Speaker 3: The progesterone, which we call the pregnancy hormone, relaxes your muscles,

1246
01:11:06,685 --> 01:11:09,325
Speaker 3: including your digestive tracks, so that can make you feel

1247
01:11:09,325 --> 01:11:12,805
Speaker 3: a little bit sluggish. Your metabolism is revving up, so

1248
01:11:12,885 --> 01:11:15,765
Speaker 3: your heart is working harder to pump that extra blood,

1249
01:11:15,965 --> 01:11:18,805
Speaker 3: and your body's busy building the placenta, which is like

1250
01:11:18,845 --> 01:11:22,565
Speaker 3: a new organ and other essentials, so your blood sugar

1251
01:11:22,565 --> 01:11:24,405
Speaker 3: and your blood pressure can dip as well, and that

1252
01:11:24,525 --> 01:11:27,285
Speaker 3: leaves you feeling wiped out. So you're adding that emotional

1253
01:11:27,365 --> 01:11:30,445
Speaker 3: rollercoaster as well. Sometimes you might get the nausea, the

1254
01:11:30,445 --> 01:11:34,085
Speaker 3: morning sickness, and it's no wonders that the first trimester

1255
01:11:34,205 --> 01:11:36,925
Speaker 3: is relentless. The good news is that it starts to

1256
01:11:37,005 --> 01:11:40,245
Speaker 3: ease up when you get to the second trimester, when

1257
01:11:40,245 --> 01:11:42,885
Speaker 3: your body starts to adjust. So if you're feeling wiped

1258
01:11:43,005 --> 01:11:46,445
Speaker 3: listen to your body. Rest when you can eat good foods,

1259
01:11:46,525 --> 01:11:49,245
Speaker 3: stay hydrated, and don't beat yourself up if you need

1260
01:11:49,245 --> 01:11:52,805
Speaker 3: that extra downtime. Your body's doing incredible. It's growing a human.

1261
01:11:53,445 --> 01:11:55,965
Speaker 3: But in saying that, I just wanted to have a

1262
01:11:55,965 --> 01:11:58,205
Speaker 3: conversation and want to see what your thoughts are. A

1263
01:11:58,285 --> 01:12:02,085
Speaker 3: lot of people don't like telling people about their pregnancies

1264
01:12:02,125 --> 01:12:04,285
Speaker 3: until they pass that twelve weeks because they feel like

1265
01:12:04,285 --> 01:12:07,405
Speaker 3: they're in the safe zone. But then this is when

1266
01:12:07,445 --> 01:12:09,165
Speaker 3: they need a lot of extra help and support, be

1267
01:12:09,325 --> 01:12:11,365
Speaker 3: because they're tired and they're wiped out. They're like, oh,

1268
01:12:11,405 --> 01:12:13,285
Speaker 3: how am I going to tell my employer that I'm

1269
01:12:13,325 --> 01:12:16,205
Speaker 3: pregnant and I might miscarried? I want to tell my family?

1270
01:12:16,205 --> 01:12:16,685
Speaker 1: Well, that's it.

1271
01:12:16,685 --> 01:12:18,925
Speaker 7: It's the most common window for miscarriage, right, So, and

1272
01:12:18,965 --> 01:12:20,965
Speaker 7: if something happens to you and you haven't told anybody,

1273
01:12:21,285 --> 01:12:22,005
Speaker 7: it makes it hard.

1274
01:12:22,125 --> 01:12:24,925
Speaker 3: It does, But I kind of want to break that cycle.

1275
01:12:25,005 --> 01:12:28,325
Speaker 3: As females, when we see that positive pregnancy stick, there

1276
01:12:28,365 --> 01:12:31,045
Speaker 3: shouldn't be that stigma where we shouldn't be allowed to

1277
01:12:31,085 --> 01:12:35,085
Speaker 3: announce it. Unfortunately, one in four pregnancies do end in miscarriage,

1278
01:12:35,405 --> 01:12:37,485
Speaker 3: and that's when we need support. And if we haven't

1279
01:12:37,485 --> 01:12:40,165
Speaker 3: spoken about it, then how do we get that support?

1280
01:12:40,685 --> 01:12:43,805
Speaker 3: So I think, you know, acknowledging I'm pregnant, and if

1281
01:12:43,845 --> 01:12:47,245
Speaker 3: a miscarriage does happen, then acknowledging I need support and

1282
01:12:47,285 --> 01:12:48,285
Speaker 3: people knew about it.

1283
01:12:48,645 --> 01:12:51,845
Speaker 7: Can you answer me this question? Riddle me this, yes, Mariam,

1284
01:12:51,965 --> 01:12:54,285
Speaker 7: but can you please tell me how we predict a

1285
01:12:54,325 --> 01:12:57,205
Speaker 7: baby's due date and how accurate it is? Because there's

1286
01:12:57,205 --> 01:13:01,365
Speaker 7: some math going on here, but realistically, forty weeks, which

1287
01:13:01,405 --> 01:13:03,925
Speaker 7: is our normal gestation period, doesn't add up to nine

1288
01:13:03,925 --> 01:13:06,725
Speaker 7: months already. The math is not math for me. So

1289
01:13:06,805 --> 01:13:09,285
Speaker 7: how do we predict the day that baby's supposed to come?

1290
01:13:09,485 --> 01:13:12,325
Speaker 3: Okay, the magic date, it's the date we all obsess

1291
01:13:12,405 --> 01:13:14,525
Speaker 3: over as parents. It's a bit of a legend, to

1292
01:13:14,565 --> 01:13:16,605
Speaker 3: be honest. Okay, So the standard way we work it

1293
01:13:16,605 --> 01:13:19,285
Speaker 3: out here in OZ is you take the first day

1294
01:13:19,405 --> 01:13:23,045
Speaker 3: of your last menstrual period and you add two hundred

1295
01:13:23,085 --> 01:13:26,965
Speaker 3: and eighty days or forty weeks to that date. Sounds straightforward,

1296
01:13:26,965 --> 01:13:30,925
Speaker 3: but pregnancy isn't always a neat nine month package like

1297
01:13:30,965 --> 01:13:31,965
Speaker 3: the calendars.

1298
01:13:31,605 --> 01:13:33,445
Speaker 7: And a no, they're our cycle, ye exactly.

1299
01:13:33,525 --> 01:13:36,405
Speaker 3: So the forty weeks is based on an average twenty

1300
01:13:36,445 --> 01:13:39,765
Speaker 3: eight day menstrual cycle, assuming ovulation happens on day fourteen,

1301
01:13:40,085 --> 01:13:42,925
Speaker 3: But not everyone's cycle plays by those rules. Some females

1302
01:13:42,965 --> 01:13:46,645
Speaker 3: ovulate earlier, some later, and the date can shift. Plus

1303
01:13:46,805 --> 01:13:49,405
Speaker 3: months aren't all the same length, so you've got thirty

1304
01:13:49,485 --> 01:13:52,765
Speaker 3: day months, thirty day ones, and then you've got February

1305
01:13:52,765 --> 01:13:53,205
Speaker 3: as well.

1306
01:13:53,605 --> 01:13:54,365
Speaker 2: But here's the kicker.

1307
01:13:54,445 --> 01:13:57,885
Speaker 3: Only one in twenty babies will actually only arrive on

1308
01:13:57,925 --> 01:14:00,525
Speaker 3: their due date. Most babies will come either two weeks

1309
01:14:00,525 --> 01:14:03,485
Speaker 3: before or two weeks after, so the Jew date is

1310
01:14:03,525 --> 01:14:07,485
Speaker 3: more of a rough window, not a ticking clock. So

1311
01:14:07,605 --> 01:14:12,245
Speaker 3: early ultrasounds in pregnancy can help us estimate gesstational age

1312
01:14:12,285 --> 01:14:14,725
Speaker 3: if we're not really sure when our last mental period

1313
01:14:14,845 --> 01:14:18,565
Speaker 3: was or if this cycle regularity, and if things start

1314
01:14:18,645 --> 01:14:21,365
Speaker 3: to stretch beyond the Jude date, then you know you've

1315
01:14:21,405 --> 01:14:23,205
Speaker 3: got your treating team that will help you guide you

1316
01:14:23,285 --> 01:14:26,965
Speaker 3: through that. So don't stress about the Jude date. Baby

1317
01:14:27,085 --> 01:14:29,045
Speaker 3: is not likely to come at that date.

1318
01:14:29,605 --> 01:14:31,125
Speaker 7: Just be aware if your baby does come after the

1319
01:14:31,205 --> 01:14:33,245
Speaker 7: Jude date, like mine did, it might come out a

1320
01:14:33,245 --> 01:14:37,005
Speaker 7: lot hairer than you expected, just a little shock surprise

1321
01:14:37,045 --> 01:14:39,645
Speaker 7: that you might not be aware of. Mariam, What should

1322
01:14:40,045 --> 01:14:42,845
Speaker 7: very early pregnant mums be doing from the get go?

1323
01:14:43,005 --> 01:14:44,565
Speaker 7: I know there's a lot of talk about what you

1324
01:14:44,565 --> 01:14:47,925
Speaker 7: should have already done in the lead up to conception,

1325
01:14:48,085 --> 01:14:51,245
Speaker 7: like not drinking alcohol and taking FOL eight supplements, for example,

1326
01:14:51,285 --> 01:14:52,885
Speaker 7: But what are the first things you tell a newly

1327
01:14:52,925 --> 01:14:53,805
Speaker 7: pregnant woman to do.

1328
01:14:54,005 --> 01:14:57,725
Speaker 3: I love these consults, like I'm a GP shared antiinatal

1329
01:14:57,805 --> 01:15:01,965
Speaker 3: care provider, so I would start if you think you're pregnant,

1330
01:15:02,125 --> 01:15:06,205
Speaker 3: finding a GP with antiinatal experience and don't just wait

1331
01:15:06,285 --> 01:15:09,085
Speaker 3: to kind of book that consultation in early. And there's

1332
01:15:09,085 --> 01:15:10,845
Speaker 3: a lot what we can do to support a healthy

1333
01:15:10,885 --> 01:15:14,485
Speaker 3: pregnancy physically, emotionally, and logistically as well. So when you

1334
01:15:14,525 --> 01:15:17,445
Speaker 3: see your doctor, we will confirm the pregnancy with like

1335
01:15:17,485 --> 01:15:20,405
Speaker 3: a urinal blood test based on what I've said before,

1336
01:15:20,645 --> 01:15:23,485
Speaker 3: and if we're unsure, we'll do that dating scan for you.

1337
01:15:24,005 --> 01:15:26,805
Speaker 3: And then this is the most important part of the conversation.

1338
01:15:27,045 --> 01:15:30,645
Speaker 3: It's never always congratulations on your pregnancy. I always start

1339
01:15:30,645 --> 01:15:34,925
Speaker 3: the conversation with is this a congratulation? And it's important

1340
01:15:34,965 --> 01:15:37,605
Speaker 3: because you know, for some people it's a surprise. It's

1341
01:15:37,605 --> 01:15:39,405
Speaker 3: not at the right time. There are a reason.

1342
01:15:39,605 --> 01:15:41,285
Speaker 7: And when Ilse told when I was a teenager, I

1343
01:15:41,325 --> 01:15:44,325
Speaker 7: had a major breakdown. So yeah, it's not always.

1344
01:15:44,085 --> 01:15:47,005
Speaker 3: A welcome Yeah, that's right. And so your GP will

1345
01:15:47,045 --> 01:15:50,405
Speaker 3: walk beside you without judgment. They'll have that conversation and

1346
01:15:50,525 --> 01:15:53,525
Speaker 3: if termination is something that you're considering, will guide you

1347
01:15:53,565 --> 01:15:55,365
Speaker 3: through that process and make sure that you have the

1348
01:15:55,445 --> 01:15:58,765
Speaker 3: right supports. If you are thinking of continuing the pregnancy,

1349
01:15:59,205 --> 01:16:01,165
Speaker 3: it's ensuring that you're on the right supplement. So we

1350
01:16:01,205 --> 01:16:04,965
Speaker 3: spoke about folic acid and iodine, but then there are

1351
01:16:04,965 --> 01:16:07,045
Speaker 3: other things. So if you're at risk of preclamsy you've

1352
01:16:07,085 --> 01:16:08,845
Speaker 3: had preclamcy here before, you might need to be on

1353
01:16:08,925 --> 01:16:11,285
Speaker 3: ASP or calcium, so it's important we go through your

1354
01:16:11,325 --> 01:16:14,965
Speaker 3: medical surgical history, go through any medications you're on that

1355
01:16:15,085 --> 01:16:17,885
Speaker 3: might be teratogenic so they might harm the baby, or

1356
01:16:17,885 --> 01:16:20,885
Speaker 3: we might need to change dosages of some medications as well.

1357
01:16:21,325 --> 01:16:23,725
Speaker 3: Then we check whether your cervical cancer screening is up

1358
01:16:23,765 --> 01:16:25,965
Speaker 3: to date. So I'm going to break a myth, it

1359
01:16:26,045 --> 01:16:28,845
Speaker 3: is safe during pregnancy. There's also the self collection if

1360
01:16:28,885 --> 01:16:31,645
Speaker 3: you're really worried about anything touching the cervix, that self

1361
01:16:31,685 --> 01:16:34,605
Speaker 3: collection just touches the side walls of the vagina, so

1362
01:16:34,685 --> 01:16:38,125
Speaker 3: that's completely safe. We also might offer an STI screen

1363
01:16:38,205 --> 01:16:40,885
Speaker 3: for some people if that's relevant as well. We'll check

1364
01:16:40,885 --> 01:16:43,205
Speaker 3: if your immunizations are up to date, and we'll tell

1365
01:16:43,245 --> 01:16:46,365
Speaker 3: you about the schedule of immunizations during pregnancy, which are

1366
01:16:46,445 --> 01:16:49,765
Speaker 3: really really important. I know there's a lot of misinformation online.

1367
01:16:49,885 --> 01:16:54,405
Speaker 3: If you have any concerns regarding immunizations during pregnancy, please

1368
01:16:54,445 --> 01:16:58,245
Speaker 3: please speak with a trusted healthcare professional. Do not get

1369
01:16:58,245 --> 01:17:02,045
Speaker 3: your information from untrusted sources online. Then we'll talk about

1370
01:17:02,125 --> 01:17:06,885
Speaker 3: lifestyle and nutrition. So obviously no smoking, no vaping, alcohol,

1371
01:17:06,925 --> 01:17:09,965
Speaker 3: lisa drugs, and that includes passive smoking. Sometimes being around

1372
01:17:09,965 --> 01:17:12,485
Speaker 3: people that smoke can also harm the baby. And then

1373
01:17:12,525 --> 01:17:15,045
Speaker 3: there's the food safety. That's a big one. There are

1374
01:17:15,045 --> 01:17:18,845
Speaker 3: certain foods to avoid, soft cheeses, deli meats, or all seafoods.

1375
01:17:19,085 --> 01:17:22,685
Speaker 3: There's a whole bunch of foods. And it's not about

1376
01:17:22,685 --> 01:17:24,765
Speaker 3: instilling fear, you know. I still want people to go

1377
01:17:24,845 --> 01:17:27,605
Speaker 3: out and be able to eat healthy foods. I usually

1378
01:17:27,645 --> 01:17:30,405
Speaker 3: refer people to the New South World Food Authority Guide.

1379
01:17:30,445 --> 01:17:33,285
Speaker 3: It's a great resource, has a lot of information about

1380
01:17:33,805 --> 01:17:35,965
Speaker 3: it's got like a red light, green light, orange light

1381
01:17:36,005 --> 01:17:38,645
Speaker 3: system or things to just be cautious with. I usually

1382
01:17:38,685 --> 01:17:41,885
Speaker 3: print that out for them. And important conversation I also

1383
01:17:41,965 --> 01:17:45,205
Speaker 3: have is about domestic safety and emotional health. So this

1384
01:17:45,325 --> 01:17:48,405
Speaker 3: part is so important. We will ask gently and privately

1385
01:17:48,565 --> 01:17:52,285
Speaker 3: about your safety at home. Unfortunately, pregnancy increases the risk

1386
01:17:52,325 --> 01:17:55,925
Speaker 3: of DV. The questions aren't just routine, they're protective. We

1387
01:17:56,005 --> 01:17:59,445
Speaker 3: also talk about mental health. So peronatal anxiety is very

1388
01:17:59,525 --> 01:18:02,205
Speaker 3: very common and it's a risk factor for postnatal depressions.

1389
01:18:02,285 --> 01:18:04,485
Speaker 3: So we catch it early. We can put in those

1390
01:18:04,525 --> 01:18:07,805
Speaker 3: supports early and if anything's flagged, will help you access

1391
01:18:07,845 --> 01:18:11,525
Speaker 3: the right care. I I'm a bit of a Debbie

1392
01:18:11,605 --> 01:18:14,885
Speaker 3: down us. I've been through the miscarriage journey, and even

1393
01:18:14,925 --> 01:18:18,925
Speaker 3: as a health professional, I was also a bit annoyed

1394
01:18:19,045 --> 01:18:23,085
Speaker 3: that we don't have this conversation that one inful pregnancies

1395
01:18:23,165 --> 01:18:26,605
Speaker 3: unfortunately do anti miscarriage. So I think having that conversation

1396
01:18:26,885 --> 01:18:29,965
Speaker 3: at that first concert with the doctor saying this may

1397
01:18:30,005 --> 01:18:32,325
Speaker 3: not be your story, but I want you to be prepared.

1398
01:18:32,525 --> 01:18:34,445
Speaker 3: These are the signs and symptoms to look out for

1399
01:18:34,925 --> 01:18:38,005
Speaker 3: ectopic pregnancy. Education of the signs and symptoms to look

1400
01:18:38,045 --> 01:18:40,045
Speaker 3: out for. And it's not about, you know, kind of

1401
01:18:40,125 --> 01:18:44,365
Speaker 3: ruining the mood and the celebrations, but it's about providing

1402
01:18:44,365 --> 01:18:47,205
Speaker 3: them with that information that you know will be really,

1403
01:18:47,245 --> 01:18:48,605
Speaker 3: really helpful if it.

1404
01:18:48,645 --> 01:18:50,765
Speaker 7: Was to end that way, because we often find ourselves

1405
01:18:50,765 --> 01:18:53,245
Speaker 7: when we do experience those things asking why didn't anyone

1406
01:18:53,245 --> 01:18:54,165
Speaker 7: tell me about exactly.

1407
01:18:54,325 --> 01:18:58,205
Speaker 3: Yeah, you'll have some antenatal bloods and potentially genetic screening

1408
01:18:58,205 --> 01:19:00,565
Speaker 3: if you haven't had that offered, and then we'll plan

1409
01:19:00,605 --> 01:19:03,005
Speaker 3: the antenatal journey. We'll talk to you about the options,

1410
01:19:03,005 --> 01:19:05,605
Speaker 3: whether you want to go privately or publicly through a

1411
01:19:05,645 --> 01:19:08,125
Speaker 3: midwife system or whatever that might look like, and we'll

1412
01:19:08,125 --> 01:19:10,445
Speaker 3: put those referrals in place and then we follow you up.

1413
01:19:10,845 --> 01:19:12,685
Speaker 1: My gosh, that's.

1414
01:19:12,485 --> 01:19:13,845
Speaker 8: A lot, it's a lot.

1415
01:19:13,885 --> 01:19:14,085
Speaker 2: One.

1416
01:19:14,725 --> 01:19:18,165
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love those consoles and then obviously the physical

1417
01:19:18,165 --> 01:19:21,405
Speaker 3: examination as well, but no, it's a great, great console.

1418
01:19:21,565 --> 01:19:22,965
Speaker 3: I love those consultations.

1419
01:19:23,445 --> 01:19:24,285
Speaker 2: Well, I wanted to ask.

1420
01:19:24,165 --> 01:19:26,005
Speaker 7: You too, because it's something that I did not know

1421
01:19:26,085 --> 01:19:29,165
Speaker 7: how to face when I was pregnant, is how do

1422
01:19:29,205 --> 01:19:32,405
Speaker 7: you find a good ogbyn or midwife? Like, do you

1423
01:19:32,445 --> 01:19:34,165
Speaker 7: need a referral? Can you go and hunt one down

1424
01:19:34,205 --> 01:19:34,725
Speaker 7: for yourself?

1425
01:19:34,925 --> 01:19:37,565
Speaker 3: So you do need a referral from your GP, which

1426
01:19:37,605 --> 01:19:40,885
Speaker 3: is why the GPS your best starting point, and they

1427
01:19:40,925 --> 01:19:44,365
Speaker 3: can recommend someone based on your health needs, your location,

1428
01:19:44,525 --> 01:19:48,045
Speaker 3: or your birthing preferences. Most mid referee care is available

1429
01:19:48,045 --> 01:19:50,765
Speaker 3: through the public systems unless you wanted to go privately

1430
01:19:50,805 --> 01:19:54,165
Speaker 3: as well. I find the Facebook Moms group really great

1431
01:19:54,285 --> 01:19:58,245
Speaker 3: in terms of recommendations and experiences of obstetricians that they've

1432
01:19:58,285 --> 01:20:00,005
Speaker 3: had as well, so that's always a good place to start.

1433
01:20:00,045 --> 01:20:03,485
Speaker 3: You can look online, you know, if you've got specific issues,

1434
01:20:03,525 --> 01:20:06,085
Speaker 3: like your high risk We've got a twin pregnancy. There

1435
01:20:06,125 --> 01:20:09,325
Speaker 3: are also obstetricians that kind of look after those. It's

1436
01:20:09,085 --> 01:20:11,325
Speaker 3: all doing a bit of research on your part or

1437
01:20:11,365 --> 01:20:15,085
Speaker 3: speaking to your doctor about any preferences that they might have. Yeah,

1438
01:20:15,165 --> 01:20:17,485
Speaker 3: so your first port of call and they'll match you

1439
01:20:17,565 --> 01:20:19,725
Speaker 3: to the right team for you through your pregnancy journey.

1440
01:20:19,845 --> 01:20:20,365
Speaker 1: Amazing.

1441
01:20:21,445 --> 01:20:23,405
Speaker 7: Okay, on the way, we're going to answer a quick

1442
01:20:23,405 --> 01:20:26,245
Speaker 7: consult for Tony who's on HRT but she thinks maybe

1443
01:20:26,245 --> 01:20:29,525
Speaker 7: it's missing something that most of us think only belongs

1444
01:20:29,525 --> 01:20:32,365
Speaker 7: to men. But next we're catching up with Associate Professor

1445
01:20:32,525 --> 01:20:35,285
Speaker 7: Kirsten Palmer to talk through all the basics of pregnancy,

1446
01:20:35,405 --> 01:20:39,245
Speaker 7: from like bigger feat to blood pressure, the food rules,

1447
01:20:39,245 --> 01:20:42,565
Speaker 7: and why medications may not work as well when you're expecting.

1448
01:20:45,165 --> 01:20:47,845
Speaker 5: If you want to hear the full episode, Well is

1449
01:20:47,885 --> 01:20:50,605
Speaker 5: your full Body Health Check and drops every week on

1450
01:20:50,645 --> 01:20:53,525
Speaker 5: a Thursday. We've popped a link in our show notes

1451
01:20:53,605 --> 01:20:54,845
Speaker 5: for you to like and follow.

1452
01:20:55,205 --> 01:20:57,565
Speaker 6: This episode of Well was brought to you in partnership

1453
01:20:57,645 --> 01:20:58,365
Speaker 6: with Clear Blue