1 00:00:10,622 --> 00:00:13,382 Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 2 00:00:13,822 --> 00:00:17,182 Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:17,222 --> 00:00:18,782 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:19,942 --> 00:00:22,461 Speaker 3: Beware the man who tells you that his life is 5 00:00:22,542 --> 00:00:25,262 Speaker 3: drama free after a breakup. They are the type of 6 00:00:25,342 --> 00:00:30,662 Speaker 3: man or women who treat their partner terribly. They make 7 00:00:30,702 --> 00:00:36,622 Speaker 3: them paranoid, they undermine them, They foster very bizarre behavior 8 00:00:36,902 --> 00:00:39,982 Speaker 3: and guess what the partner does start acting weird because 9 00:00:39,982 --> 00:00:40,822 Speaker 3: you're cheating on them. 10 00:00:40,942 --> 00:00:48,502 Speaker 2: Right, Hello, and welcome to Momma Mia. Out loud, well 11 00:00:48,502 --> 00:00:51,862 Speaker 2: women are actually talking about. On Wednesday, the twenty sixth 12 00:00:51,862 --> 00:00:53,222 Speaker 2: of March, I'm Holly. 13 00:00:52,982 --> 00:00:57,462 Speaker 1: Wayne Wright, I'm Jesse Stevens and I'm Amelia Luster filling 14 00:00:57,542 --> 00:00:58,542 Speaker 1: in for Mere today. 15 00:00:58,982 --> 00:01:00,822 Speaker 2: You can't get rid of you, Amelia and I like 16 00:01:00,902 --> 00:01:04,742 Speaker 2: it on the show today. You can now buy the 17 00:01:04,862 --> 00:01:08,622 Speaker 2: exact skinny jeans that Meg Sussex was dancing around her 18 00:01:08,702 --> 00:01:11,422 Speaker 2: kitchen in when she was making her non jam on 19 00:01:11,462 --> 00:01:14,182 Speaker 2: her TV show. The good news is if you do, 20 00:01:14,462 --> 00:01:18,182 Speaker 2: Megan gets sixteen dollars eighty in her bank account from you. 21 00:01:18,862 --> 00:01:23,062 Speaker 2: Welcome to the world of celebrity links. Also, why where 22 00:01:23,142 --> 00:01:27,662 Speaker 2: You Work? Is the New Australian political battleground and can 23 00:01:27,702 --> 00:01:31,422 Speaker 2: you make yourself lucky? Have you heard of lucky girl syndrome? 24 00:01:31,502 --> 00:01:35,782 Speaker 2: Apparently being delusional is the key to getting absolutely anything 25 00:01:35,862 --> 00:01:38,342 Speaker 2: you want. But first, Jesse. 26 00:01:39,262 --> 00:01:43,422 Speaker 3: In case you missed it, yesterday Treasurer Jim Chalmers handed 27 00:01:43,422 --> 00:01:47,182 Speaker 3: down the twenty twenty five twenty twenty six federal budget. Now, 28 00:01:47,302 --> 00:01:49,622 Speaker 3: this was the budget that was never meant to happen, 29 00:01:49,942 --> 00:01:53,222 Speaker 3: and it might not actually be implemented. Given this government 30 00:01:53,262 --> 00:01:55,982 Speaker 3: could be voted out in a matter of weeks. It 31 00:01:56,102 --> 00:01:59,622 Speaker 3: was widely presumed. Remember that Albanezi would call an election 32 00:01:59,782 --> 00:02:02,222 Speaker 3: before the budget was due on the twenty fifth. But 33 00:02:02,262 --> 00:02:05,662 Speaker 3: then cyclone Alfred meant a delay, and here we are 34 00:02:05,822 --> 00:02:09,421 Speaker 3: with what feels like a bit of a hypothetical budget. Nonetheless, 35 00:02:09,702 --> 00:02:13,462 Speaker 3: here are the headlines. All right, Three things. First thing, 36 00:02:13,702 --> 00:02:16,941 Speaker 3: boost in Medicare seven point nine billion dollars has been 37 00:02:17,022 --> 00:02:20,902 Speaker 3: committed to, making nine out of ten GP visits bulk 38 00:02:20,942 --> 00:02:23,382 Speaker 3: billed by twenty thirty. I think we can all acknowledge 39 00:02:23,422 --> 00:02:27,862 Speaker 3: that bulk billing disappeared under our noses. Second thing, energy 40 00:02:27,902 --> 00:02:30,542 Speaker 3: relief one hundred and fifty bucks wiped from your energy 41 00:02:30,542 --> 00:02:35,022 Speaker 3: bill through to December. And the third thing, childcare. Maybe 42 00:02:35,022 --> 00:02:37,341 Speaker 3: this is just me and my own interest, but hey, 43 00:02:38,102 --> 00:02:41,022 Speaker 3: i'd ever said I was a political journal I guaranteed 44 00:02:41,181 --> 00:02:44,941 Speaker 3: eligibility for at least three days a week of subsidized childcare. 45 00:02:45,782 --> 00:02:48,262 Speaker 3: Most of what was announced we already knew. So if 46 00:02:48,262 --> 00:02:50,302 Speaker 3: you feel like none of this is surprising, you're right. 47 00:02:50,822 --> 00:02:54,022 Speaker 3: But you might see some headlines around today because for 48 00:02:54,062 --> 00:02:58,782 Speaker 3: the first time, thirteen content creators attended the federal budget lockup, 49 00:02:58,822 --> 00:03:02,662 Speaker 3: which is usually reserved for political journalists. On the one hand, 50 00:03:02,822 --> 00:03:05,662 Speaker 3: you've got the critics saying, how about the methodology of 51 00:03:05,702 --> 00:03:09,702 Speaker 3: interpreting the budget of impartiality? And on the other hand, 52 00:03:10,062 --> 00:03:13,341 Speaker 3: you've got people saying, aren't these some of the country's 53 00:03:13,382 --> 00:03:17,222 Speaker 3: most powerful and influential communicators. If you want your budget 54 00:03:17,222 --> 00:03:21,062 Speaker 3: delivered to a gen Z audience, the newspaper probably isn't 55 00:03:21,102 --> 00:03:24,822 Speaker 3: the way to go. I say, I'm bowing down to 56 00:03:24,862 --> 00:03:27,222 Speaker 3: anyone who wants to spend six hours in a locked 57 00:03:27,302 --> 00:03:29,822 Speaker 3: room with budget papers. What are you two thinking? Are 58 00:03:29,822 --> 00:03:31,062 Speaker 3: you jealous you weren't invited. 59 00:03:31,742 --> 00:03:33,942 Speaker 1: I think it's so great, And I think the idea 60 00:03:33,982 --> 00:03:37,342 Speaker 1: that you need some sort of special qualifications to understand 61 00:03:37,382 --> 00:03:40,982 Speaker 1: what a government's policies are is frankly part of the problem. 62 00:03:41,022 --> 00:03:43,662 Speaker 1: We should all be getting across all of it, and 63 00:03:43,782 --> 00:03:48,102 Speaker 1: it's not rocket science, and it's just about informing everyone. 64 00:03:48,262 --> 00:03:51,062 Speaker 2: I agree. It used to be a very tightly closed 65 00:03:51,102 --> 00:03:54,382 Speaker 2: shop the journalists who could get into the Budget lock 66 00:03:54,462 --> 00:03:57,382 Speaker 2: Up and obviously the Canbra Press Gallery, and there's a 67 00:03:57,422 --> 00:03:59,302 Speaker 2: lot of good reasons for that. But the media has 68 00:03:59,462 --> 00:04:02,662 Speaker 2: changed out of sight in the past ten years and 69 00:04:02,702 --> 00:04:05,222 Speaker 2: it's just perfect sense that you would expand who gets 70 00:04:05,222 --> 00:04:07,942 Speaker 2: to come. So basically new media is included. MoMA Mia 71 00:04:08,022 --> 00:04:11,382 Speaker 2: went we had a reporter and that is the first time. 72 00:04:11,862 --> 00:04:14,062 Speaker 2: And I remember when I was head of Content musical 73 00:04:14,182 --> 00:04:16,582 Speaker 2: like we were trying to get people in there, but 74 00:04:16,662 --> 00:04:20,822 Speaker 2: there wasn't the sort of respect or understanding that new 75 00:04:20,902 --> 00:04:24,182 Speaker 2: media as it's called, was valid. So I think it's 76 00:04:24,301 --> 00:04:28,022 Speaker 2: kind of misleading that we're seeing these headlines saying influences 77 00:04:28,142 --> 00:04:30,662 Speaker 2: in the Lockup when a lot of them are just 78 00:04:31,342 --> 00:04:37,782 Speaker 2: very often female, younger journalists, media people, podcast hosts. Like 79 00:04:37,941 --> 00:04:40,181 Speaker 2: it's sort of being used as a derogatory term. I 80 00:04:40,181 --> 00:04:41,062 Speaker 2: don't have a problem with it. 81 00:04:41,222 --> 00:04:44,381 Speaker 3: Who were some of the influencers who went so Hannah 82 00:04:44,421 --> 00:04:47,021 Speaker 3: Ferguson from Cheek Media to call her an influencer, I 83 00:04:47,022 --> 00:04:51,461 Speaker 3: feel exactly as you say, Holly is intentionally undermining. There's 84 00:04:51,541 --> 00:04:56,221 Speaker 3: another influencer called Millie Rose Banister who has a big 85 00:04:56,501 --> 00:04:59,941 Speaker 3: Instagram following, But what she's actually done is founded a 86 00:05:00,621 --> 00:05:04,301 Speaker 3: youth charity for gen ZT. She's a founder really, so 87 00:05:05,022 --> 00:05:07,462 Speaker 3: I think you know, read between the lines and these 88 00:05:07,501 --> 00:05:11,382 Speaker 3: aren't people just posing in bikinis like they are actually 89 00:05:11,381 --> 00:05:14,541 Speaker 3: trying to enact change and they've got very engaged audiences. 90 00:05:14,821 --> 00:05:17,181 Speaker 1: Well, also, people in bikinis have energy bills to pay, 91 00:05:17,262 --> 00:05:18,061 Speaker 1: so I don't see. 92 00:05:17,941 --> 00:05:19,262 Speaker 3: That so true. 93 00:05:19,342 --> 00:05:24,582 Speaker 2: Possibly more the heating bills. You're not wearing clothes anyway. 94 00:05:24,702 --> 00:05:26,342 Speaker 3: I'll be excited about the energy bills. 95 00:05:27,142 --> 00:05:30,981 Speaker 2: Megan's Sussex has opened a shop, but yet we are 96 00:05:31,061 --> 00:05:35,421 Speaker 2: still waiting for jam as Ever. The brand through which 97 00:05:35,421 --> 00:05:39,701 Speaker 2: she's selling, like Crepe mix, those ubiquitous flower sprinkles and 98 00:05:39,741 --> 00:05:41,541 Speaker 2: the stuff that you saw on the Netflix show is 99 00:05:41,541 --> 00:05:44,061 Speaker 2: called as Ever. And although you can go there and 100 00:05:44,061 --> 00:05:46,141 Speaker 2: look at those things, you cannot yet buy them the 101 00:05:46,181 --> 00:05:52,662 Speaker 2: shop and every day, twice a day at least, that 102 00:05:52,821 --> 00:05:56,462 Speaker 2: shop is still not operating. It's still not trading. But 103 00:05:56,541 --> 00:06:00,541 Speaker 2: what is trading is her Instagram store. And this is 104 00:06:00,582 --> 00:06:05,462 Speaker 2: brand new. So on Megan's Instagram store, you can buy 105 00:06:05,501 --> 00:06:07,701 Speaker 2: the things that she wears on her body and her face. 106 00:06:07,821 --> 00:06:09,782 Speaker 2: So these are all things made by other people people 107 00:06:09,782 --> 00:06:12,702 Speaker 2: and other brands, but if you buy them, Megs gets 108 00:06:12,702 --> 00:06:15,941 Speaker 2: a little kickback for anything that you purchase. Do you 109 00:06:15,941 --> 00:06:17,862 Speaker 2: guys know what affiliate links are? 110 00:06:17,941 --> 00:06:18,021 Speaker 4: No? 111 00:06:18,142 --> 00:06:19,981 Speaker 1: And can you explain why this is such a big 112 00:06:20,022 --> 00:06:22,421 Speaker 1: deal because I sort of thought she was already doing 113 00:06:22,462 --> 00:06:23,701 Speaker 1: this or everyone's doing this. 114 00:06:25,101 --> 00:06:27,861 Speaker 2: So lots of people do do this. Talking as we 115 00:06:27,861 --> 00:06:31,061 Speaker 2: were in the intro about you know this broad term 116 00:06:31,101 --> 00:06:34,222 Speaker 2: of influencers and how it's often like thrown around as 117 00:06:34,462 --> 00:06:38,741 Speaker 2: some sort of derogatory term. Lots and lots of content 118 00:06:38,782 --> 00:06:42,662 Speaker 2: creators on social media platforms do do this, right, So 119 00:06:43,222 --> 00:06:46,341 Speaker 2: lots of publishing houses do it too. Mamamia does it sometimes. 120 00:06:46,342 --> 00:06:49,101 Speaker 2: So if you might have an article that's like twenty 121 00:06:49,142 --> 00:06:52,981 Speaker 2: pairs of genes to wear this winter, and then if 122 00:06:53,022 --> 00:06:55,702 Speaker 2: you it'll say some of the links in this post 123 00:06:55,821 --> 00:06:58,461 Speaker 2: are commissionable links or affiliate links, And what it means 124 00:06:58,501 --> 00:07:00,821 Speaker 2: is if you click through and you buy those genes, 125 00:07:00,861 --> 00:07:04,581 Speaker 2: a little percentage of money goes to the brand or 126 00:07:04,621 --> 00:07:07,902 Speaker 2: the person or the publication that recommended them to you. Right, 127 00:07:08,342 --> 00:07:10,022 Speaker 2: it's all got to be out in the open. That 128 00:07:10,062 --> 00:07:12,982 Speaker 2: always has to be declared. You cannot sort of cover 129 00:07:13,062 --> 00:07:16,821 Speaker 2: it up. So a lot of influencers and content creators 130 00:07:16,821 --> 00:07:20,262 Speaker 2: do it, but who does not generally do it are 131 00:07:20,462 --> 00:07:25,142 Speaker 2: top tier celebrities and royals. So it was a little 132 00:07:25,142 --> 00:07:28,261 Speaker 2: bit surprising to people this week when Megan posted on 133 00:07:28,302 --> 00:07:31,182 Speaker 2: her stories that she now had a shop and it's 134 00:07:31,182 --> 00:07:32,662 Speaker 2: called my Shop and you can go there and at 135 00:07:32,702 --> 00:07:36,461 Speaker 2: the top it says Duchess Megan, Duchess of Sussex, and 136 00:07:36,502 --> 00:07:40,182 Speaker 2: then immediately in brackets some of these links will be commissional. 137 00:07:41,381 --> 00:07:43,581 Speaker 1: Sore other celebrities doing this. 138 00:07:43,902 --> 00:07:46,422 Speaker 2: Lots of celebrities do it, but generally speaking, so the 139 00:07:46,462 --> 00:07:50,142 Speaker 2: biggest people who make the most money on shopmy are 140 00:07:50,182 --> 00:07:52,941 Speaker 2: people like, for example, Alex Earl. She is a twenty 141 00:07:52,941 --> 00:07:55,542 Speaker 2: two year old TikTok creator from Miami, and she has 142 00:07:55,582 --> 00:07:58,862 Speaker 2: more than six million followers. She makes a mint on there. So, 143 00:07:58,941 --> 00:08:01,542 Speaker 2: for example, you post about a wedding you go to 144 00:08:01,582 --> 00:08:04,062 Speaker 2: on the weekend, you're wearing a particular dress, and you're 145 00:08:04,062 --> 00:08:06,021 Speaker 2: holding a particular bag and particular shoes, and then if 146 00:08:06,062 --> 00:08:09,182 Speaker 2: you go in Alex's shop, it'll say wedding outfit, and 147 00:08:09,222 --> 00:08:11,141 Speaker 2: you go. Then you can click on the shoes, click. 148 00:08:10,982 --> 00:08:15,141 Speaker 3: On their and in sort of defensive of affiliate links 149 00:08:15,222 --> 00:08:18,422 Speaker 3: or the reason why, I think in the influencer space 150 00:08:18,462 --> 00:08:20,902 Speaker 3: it's sort of become quite a respected. 151 00:08:20,381 --> 00:08:22,622 Speaker 2: Means of a sense there's nothing wrong with it. 152 00:08:22,941 --> 00:08:25,222 Speaker 3: Yes, I think of Lee Campbell, who we work with, 153 00:08:25,782 --> 00:08:30,022 Speaker 3: and Lee is often recommending clothes and beauty products. And 154 00:08:30,102 --> 00:08:33,661 Speaker 3: it's work right, like people saying where's that skirt from? 155 00:08:33,702 --> 00:08:36,382 Speaker 3: Where'd you get that? Like it can sound ridiculous, but 156 00:08:36,662 --> 00:08:39,742 Speaker 3: replying to people and finding the link and going this 157 00:08:39,782 --> 00:08:41,342 Speaker 3: is how it sits and this is the size and 158 00:08:41,342 --> 00:08:44,342 Speaker 3: blah blah blah. It's women who are working often for 159 00:08:44,382 --> 00:08:46,342 Speaker 3: free on these platforms. It's a way for them to 160 00:08:46,382 --> 00:08:47,102 Speaker 3: generate income. 161 00:08:47,222 --> 00:08:49,862 Speaker 2: It is right, It absolutely is, and as I say, 162 00:08:49,942 --> 00:08:52,222 Speaker 2: it has to be declared. There's nothing fishy about it. 163 00:08:52,262 --> 00:08:54,862 Speaker 2: So if if I'm wearing a pair of shoes and 164 00:08:54,902 --> 00:08:56,582 Speaker 2: you're like, I like those shoes, where are they from? 165 00:08:56,582 --> 00:08:59,142 Speaker 2: And I just tell you I'm not getting an affiliate 166 00:08:59,182 --> 00:09:01,502 Speaker 2: link from that, But if I was, I would have 167 00:09:01,582 --> 00:09:04,742 Speaker 2: to tell you otherwise I would be breaking some serious rules. Right, 168 00:09:04,822 --> 00:09:07,742 Speaker 2: So Megan is doing everything by the book. But the 169 00:09:07,862 --> 00:09:10,782 Speaker 2: raised eyebrows are kind of about two things. Well, one 170 00:09:10,782 --> 00:09:12,462 Speaker 2: of them is that, as I say, it is not 171 00:09:12,742 --> 00:09:17,142 Speaker 2: generally something that very fancy people do, so it's a 172 00:09:17,182 --> 00:09:20,142 Speaker 2: little bit sneered about, I think from people who are like, 173 00:09:20,662 --> 00:09:23,102 Speaker 2: but hold on, you already have a deal with Netflix 174 00:09:23,102 --> 00:09:25,502 Speaker 2: that's worth one hundred million and a deal with Spotify 175 00:09:25,542 --> 00:09:28,942 Speaker 2: that's worth sixty million, and you've got this money coming in. 176 00:09:28,982 --> 00:09:31,022 Speaker 2: And Harry's book was the best selling of all time, 177 00:09:31,062 --> 00:09:32,942 Speaker 2: and he's got the royal money, and yet you also 178 00:09:33,022 --> 00:09:35,902 Speaker 2: want my one dollar sixty from that face cream that 179 00:09:35,982 --> 00:09:38,782 Speaker 2: I'm buying from you. So there's that level of snobbery. 180 00:09:38,822 --> 00:09:41,702 Speaker 2: And then the other piece to it is the murky 181 00:09:42,382 --> 00:09:47,622 Speaker 2: world of royal endorsement, right, because what a shot my 182 00:09:47,822 --> 00:09:50,142 Speaker 2: really is is it's an endorsement, right saying I use 183 00:09:50,182 --> 00:09:52,502 Speaker 2: this face cream, I love this face cream. You can 184 00:09:52,542 --> 00:09:55,102 Speaker 2: buy this face cream too and be like me. And 185 00:09:55,142 --> 00:09:58,342 Speaker 2: the thing about Megan's is it's very clearly Megan, Duchess 186 00:09:58,342 --> 00:10:02,022 Speaker 2: of Sussex. And the rules, generally speaking are that from 187 00:10:02,102 --> 00:10:05,222 Speaker 2: proper royals. And I know there's some disagreement about how 188 00:10:05,222 --> 00:10:07,182 Speaker 2: proper they are, but they still have their titles. They're 189 00:10:07,222 --> 00:10:09,942 Speaker 2: not HR eights, but they still have their titles. They 190 00:10:09,942 --> 00:10:12,262 Speaker 2: still feature If you go to royalfamily dot com, the 191 00:10:12,302 --> 00:10:13,902 Speaker 2: official page are still there. 192 00:10:13,982 --> 00:10:16,302 Speaker 1: Like another one of your bookmarks all. 193 00:10:16,182 --> 00:10:18,502 Speaker 2: The time to see whether or not they've been kicked off. 194 00:10:18,542 --> 00:10:22,182 Speaker 2: Yet this might do it. So they're using their royal 195 00:10:22,262 --> 00:10:25,542 Speaker 2: title to do this, So that's also interesting. 196 00:10:25,782 --> 00:10:31,302 Speaker 1: Okay, but how is this different from princess and son 197 00:10:31,742 --> 00:10:33,942 Speaker 1: who I believe is called Peter Phillips, who doesn't have 198 00:10:33,982 --> 00:10:36,502 Speaker 1: a title because Princess Ann wanted her kids to grow 199 00:10:36,582 --> 00:10:39,902 Speaker 1: up like commoners. But he has appeared in ads in 200 00:10:39,982 --> 00:10:42,382 Speaker 1: China to sell milk very much trading on the idea 201 00:10:42,462 --> 00:10:44,342 Speaker 1: of I'm a royal and I drink this milk. 202 00:10:44,622 --> 00:10:47,062 Speaker 2: This is why this is murky territory, right, because if 203 00:10:47,102 --> 00:10:49,502 Speaker 2: you read any of the books about the royals, I'll 204 00:10:49,502 --> 00:10:51,782 Speaker 2: say this is always a point of friction because the 205 00:10:51,822 --> 00:10:55,022 Speaker 2: further down the royal ladder you slip, the less money 206 00:10:55,062 --> 00:10:57,502 Speaker 2: you get. So Peter Phillips and Zara Phillips, who are 207 00:10:57,502 --> 00:10:59,782 Speaker 2: Princess An's children, as you say, did not get titles 208 00:11:00,302 --> 00:11:02,142 Speaker 2: and they are not working royals, so they do not 209 00:11:02,222 --> 00:11:05,182 Speaker 2: get any money from the public purse. So they're like, well, 210 00:11:05,222 --> 00:11:07,702 Speaker 2: how do I make money? And Zara's like, I could 211 00:11:07,742 --> 00:11:11,022 Speaker 2: take some land driver money. They would like to spook 212 00:11:11,262 --> 00:11:13,902 Speaker 2: their cars, and they do, but the fact they don't 213 00:11:13,942 --> 00:11:16,062 Speaker 2: have titles makes it a little bit different. 214 00:11:16,222 --> 00:11:20,022 Speaker 3: And there is Amelia a rub there. And the rub 215 00:11:20,262 --> 00:11:23,942 Speaker 3: is that in that Peter Phillips commercial which I went 216 00:11:24,022 --> 00:11:28,822 Speaker 3: and watched for Chinese milk, in the background it is 217 00:11:28,862 --> 00:11:34,302 Speaker 3: a backdrop like a green screen of a palace, and 218 00:11:34,342 --> 00:11:36,982 Speaker 3: then there's a green screen of him having tea in 219 00:11:37,062 --> 00:11:40,102 Speaker 3: what honestly looks like it's meant to be Buckingham Palace. Yes, 220 00:11:40,262 --> 00:11:43,982 Speaker 3: and the same thing happened with Kitty Spencer. She also 221 00:11:44,142 --> 00:11:47,142 Speaker 3: was in an ad for Chinese milk and she said 222 00:11:47,182 --> 00:11:49,822 Speaker 3: something along the lines like milk is part of any 223 00:11:49,942 --> 00:11:55,902 Speaker 3: royals morning routine because they drink tea. And this horrified 224 00:11:56,502 --> 00:12:02,622 Speaker 3: the British elitist royalists were looking at this, going, you 225 00:12:02,702 --> 00:12:07,542 Speaker 3: don't trade in our good name to go and basically 226 00:12:07,942 --> 00:12:10,582 Speaker 3: flog whatever milk will pay you the most. So I 227 00:12:10,582 --> 00:12:12,902 Speaker 3: think that there is something I love. 228 00:12:15,622 --> 00:12:17,862 Speaker 2: There is a very fair point there, merely because the 229 00:12:17,902 --> 00:12:20,622 Speaker 2: thing is is the people who are like saying the 230 00:12:20,702 --> 00:12:23,262 Speaker 2: royal name should not be sullied. The way that the 231 00:12:23,342 --> 00:12:26,222 Speaker 2: Royal family actually makes its money that is not in 232 00:12:26,782 --> 00:12:32,342 Speaker 2: dispute is basically through being landlords of vast tracts of 233 00:12:32,422 --> 00:12:35,262 Speaker 2: the country. You know that they then get paid by 234 00:12:35,462 --> 00:12:39,222 Speaker 2: all kinds of things, from prisons to private housing associations, 235 00:12:39,222 --> 00:12:41,422 Speaker 2: sort kind of things to use the fancy land that 236 00:12:41,462 --> 00:12:45,062 Speaker 2: they own. There is a lot of commercial arrangement going 237 00:12:45,102 --> 00:12:47,822 Speaker 2: on in the royal family all the time. But what 238 00:12:47,942 --> 00:12:51,502 Speaker 2: has never happened before is that someone who has a 239 00:12:51,622 --> 00:12:53,942 Speaker 2: very fancy title and is that close to the crown 240 00:12:54,022 --> 00:12:57,502 Speaker 2: has gone, please buy this bag. I will get sixteen 241 00:12:57,582 --> 00:13:00,342 Speaker 2: dollars if you do, quite so explicitly. 242 00:13:00,502 --> 00:13:05,182 Speaker 3: It's the next step in the metamorphosis of Megan Markele 243 00:13:05,422 --> 00:13:09,261 Speaker 3: Duchess of Sussex the influencer. And I'm here for it 244 00:13:09,742 --> 00:13:13,062 Speaker 3: and I love it. So I found a dress that 245 00:13:13,142 --> 00:13:16,422 Speaker 3: I quite liked, right, and it was a dress for 246 00:13:16,502 --> 00:13:19,462 Speaker 3: five hundred and sixty four dollars and a little out 247 00:13:19,462 --> 00:13:23,702 Speaker 3: of my budget. But on my deep dive I discovered 248 00:13:23,742 --> 00:13:26,102 Speaker 3: that this website that she's using has a commission of 249 00:13:26,182 --> 00:13:28,381 Speaker 3: up to thirty percent. She could get one hundred and 250 00:13:28,422 --> 00:13:30,702 Speaker 3: sixty nine dollars if I bought that dress, which I 251 00:13:30,702 --> 00:13:34,262 Speaker 3: thought was amazing. But in the fine print, I think 252 00:13:34,262 --> 00:13:36,702 Speaker 3: there's a hint as to where she's going next. Right, 253 00:13:37,062 --> 00:13:41,422 Speaker 3: Because the platform also allows creators to discover and manage 254 00:13:41,782 --> 00:13:46,222 Speaker 3: paid collaboration opportunities. Look, I recently did spon con for 255 00:13:46,422 --> 00:13:49,422 Speaker 3: Cabot's deck Oil. I reckon, we are a month from 256 00:13:49,462 --> 00:13:53,582 Speaker 3: Meghan Markel or Meghan Sussex being the face of Cabot's 257 00:13:53,582 --> 00:13:57,182 Speaker 3: deck Oil. She's doing her little little den hundred paid 258 00:13:57,302 --> 00:14:01,262 Speaker 3: collab face. The woman has to work. I quite love it. 259 00:14:01,662 --> 00:14:05,302 Speaker 3: I love how offensive the monarchists will find it. I 260 00:14:05,342 --> 00:14:08,502 Speaker 3: definitely understand. I just keep looking at this and going 261 00:14:08,582 --> 00:14:12,622 Speaker 3: I'm getting further and further on the train of Look, honey, 262 00:14:12,662 --> 00:14:14,542 Speaker 3: we have got to drop that title. We've got to 263 00:14:14,582 --> 00:14:14,862 Speaker 3: drop it. 264 00:14:15,062 --> 00:14:16,902 Speaker 2: That's the thing. I don't have any problem with her 265 00:14:16,902 --> 00:14:18,982 Speaker 2: doing this like that would be really hypocritical. I mean, 266 00:14:19,022 --> 00:14:21,902 Speaker 2: I also get paid to promote things on the Internet. 267 00:14:22,262 --> 00:14:24,302 Speaker 2: But I think one of the ways that it's a 268 00:14:24,342 --> 00:14:26,902 Speaker 2: bit distasteful, and what it is is it folds into 269 00:14:26,942 --> 00:14:29,022 Speaker 2: what we've been talking about all year that Meghan has 270 00:14:29,102 --> 00:14:32,342 Speaker 2: obviously decided I don't give a shit anymore about all 271 00:14:32,382 --> 00:14:35,262 Speaker 2: the criticism because you people are never gonna like me. 272 00:14:35,502 --> 00:14:37,782 Speaker 2: It's never going to be enough. I'm just going to 273 00:14:37,862 --> 00:14:41,062 Speaker 2: do what I want to do. Because this hands ammunition 274 00:14:41,142 --> 00:14:44,582 Speaker 2: to her critics who say, don't you have enough money already? 275 00:14:44,702 --> 00:14:48,902 Speaker 2: You know, like maybe Jesse needs the Cabot deck oil money. Oh, 276 00:14:48,942 --> 00:14:52,902 Speaker 2: trust me, I do, but maybe Meghan doesn't. But then 277 00:14:52,942 --> 00:14:56,142 Speaker 2: I think that Meghan rightly has realized that that's also 278 00:14:56,222 --> 00:14:59,382 Speaker 2: a very old fashioned idea and we're used now to 279 00:14:59,422 --> 00:15:01,542 Speaker 2: people having lots of different strings to their bow. 280 00:15:01,982 --> 00:15:04,822 Speaker 1: I also think we should remember that she used to 281 00:15:04,902 --> 00:15:08,702 Speaker 1: be famous pri Harry for suits. Yes, but she always 282 00:15:08,742 --> 00:15:11,702 Speaker 1: wanted to be in fluence. So the tig her blog 283 00:15:11,862 --> 00:15:16,022 Speaker 1: pre Harry was all about Megan recommending things and selling 284 00:15:16,022 --> 00:15:19,982 Speaker 1: beauty products and food products and influencing people with her taste. 285 00:15:20,062 --> 00:15:22,502 Speaker 1: So it's sort of like she never wanted to be 286 00:15:22,582 --> 00:15:25,382 Speaker 1: a royal. She always wanted to be an influencer, right, 287 00:15:25,662 --> 00:15:27,382 Speaker 1: and now she's just returning to that. 288 00:15:28,022 --> 00:15:30,622 Speaker 2: It gives her a competitive advantage though over every other 289 00:15:30,942 --> 00:15:34,542 Speaker 2: There isn't another person on that platform who can say 290 00:15:34,662 --> 00:15:37,662 Speaker 2: that they are a duchess and that this face cream 291 00:15:38,062 --> 00:15:39,462 Speaker 2: is dutchess level good. 292 00:15:39,422 --> 00:15:41,222 Speaker 1: Look and I'm horrified by that. I want to make 293 00:15:41,302 --> 00:15:43,782 Speaker 1: clear that she is trading off the royal name, which 294 00:15:43,782 --> 00:15:47,662 Speaker 1: has never been sullied before. But one thing I did 295 00:15:47,702 --> 00:15:50,302 Speaker 1: want to mention that did genuinely horrify me. Is you 296 00:15:50,382 --> 00:15:54,382 Speaker 1: mentioned skinny jeans? Is she selling skinny jeans on there? 297 00:15:54,902 --> 00:15:56,942 Speaker 2: Like Jesse, I have deep dived. Most of the things 298 00:15:56,942 --> 00:15:58,942 Speaker 2: on there are sold out already, so it's very clear 299 00:15:58,982 --> 00:16:01,182 Speaker 2: that the people wanted what Megan is selling them. But 300 00:16:01,422 --> 00:16:04,742 Speaker 2: in her show with Love Megan, it's not as ever, 301 00:16:04,942 --> 00:16:07,662 Speaker 2: and it's not this other brand. I'm very confused. But anyway, 302 00:16:08,102 --> 00:16:10,862 Speaker 2: in her show she wears skinny dear the lot and 303 00:16:10,942 --> 00:16:13,262 Speaker 2: they are for sale on there, and it's a brand 304 00:16:13,302 --> 00:16:16,222 Speaker 2: called Frame, a gene called alex are apparently very cool 305 00:16:16,222 --> 00:16:18,782 Speaker 2: and that you cannot buy those for love nor money 306 00:16:18,822 --> 00:16:19,942 Speaker 2: and they cost two hundred. 307 00:16:20,062 --> 00:16:23,702 Speaker 1: See that is to me in a moment. 308 00:16:24,182 --> 00:16:33,622 Speaker 3: Where you work is the new political battleground business productivity, 309 00:16:33,702 --> 00:16:36,822 Speaker 3: life productivity, and a culture war over working from home. 310 00:16:37,102 --> 00:16:40,662 Speaker 3: It seems politics has weaseled its way into the workplace. 311 00:16:41,222 --> 00:16:43,902 Speaker 3: In an article published in The Sydney Morning Herald titled 312 00:16:44,302 --> 00:16:48,262 Speaker 3: why where you Work is the new political battleground, Shane 313 00:16:48,262 --> 00:16:51,262 Speaker 3: Wright argues that one of the biggest debates set to 314 00:16:51,302 --> 00:16:55,062 Speaker 3: play out in the coming weeks concerns working from home, 315 00:16:55,782 --> 00:17:00,022 Speaker 3: so the coalition wants all public servants back at their desks. 316 00:17:00,422 --> 00:17:04,462 Speaker 3: Peter Dutton has accused many of refusing to go back 317 00:17:04,502 --> 00:17:07,661 Speaker 3: to work. He's also expressed plans to acts up to 318 00:17:07,862 --> 00:17:12,702 Speaker 3: thirty six thousand federal public servants, seemingly following in the 319 00:17:12,702 --> 00:17:18,022 Speaker 3: footsteps of Elon Musk and Doge. Here is what Alberanezi 320 00:17:18,141 --> 00:17:19,421 Speaker 3: has said in response. 321 00:17:20,182 --> 00:17:25,302 Speaker 4: This is an advantage in modern families that have enabled 322 00:17:25,302 --> 00:17:28,782 Speaker 4: them to take advantage of it. It has also meant 323 00:17:29,061 --> 00:17:34,542 Speaker 4: for working families where both parents are working, they're able 324 00:17:34,942 --> 00:17:38,662 Speaker 4: to deal with those issues of working from home has 325 00:17:38,782 --> 00:17:42,182 Speaker 4: enabled them to work full time and therefore it has 326 00:17:42,262 --> 00:17:48,661 Speaker 4: increased workforce participation, particularly for women. Peter Darton has said 327 00:17:49,661 --> 00:17:54,381 Speaker 4: that firstly he has questioned working from home and of 328 00:17:54,462 --> 00:17:58,861 Speaker 4: course these decisions are decisions that are made as well 329 00:17:58,861 --> 00:18:04,181 Speaker 4: with employers. He has questioned it and he has said 330 00:18:04,222 --> 00:18:07,662 Speaker 4: that oh well, women in particular can just go out 331 00:18:07,702 --> 00:18:11,141 Speaker 4: and job share well, people who want to work full 332 00:18:11,182 --> 00:18:15,181 Speaker 4: time in order to make sure they can look after 333 00:18:15,262 --> 00:18:19,782 Speaker 4: their families. This just shows how out of touch Peter 334 00:18:19,901 --> 00:18:20,502 Speaker 4: darton Is. 335 00:18:21,422 --> 00:18:24,302 Speaker 3: He also added that forcing people back into their cars 336 00:18:24,341 --> 00:18:26,782 Speaker 3: for a daily commute could set them back five thousand 337 00:18:26,821 --> 00:18:30,061 Speaker 3: dollars a year just in transport and car parking costs. 338 00:18:30,942 --> 00:18:33,421 Speaker 3: So the debate about working from home or back to 339 00:18:33,462 --> 00:18:37,221 Speaker 3: the office has been gaining momentum since the pandemic. Prior 340 00:18:37,262 --> 00:18:40,061 Speaker 3: to the pandemic, about six point five percent of assies 341 00:18:40,101 --> 00:18:42,661 Speaker 3: worked at least half the time from home, and now 342 00:18:42,742 --> 00:18:48,262 Speaker 3: it's about seventeen percent. Some economists, business leaders, and policymakers 343 00:18:48,341 --> 00:18:50,821 Speaker 3: say that working from home has caused a drop in 344 00:18:50,942 --> 00:18:54,661 Speaker 3: national productivity. They argue that not being in an office 345 00:18:54,821 --> 00:18:59,261 Speaker 3: reduces their ability to generate new ideas. What is not 346 00:18:59,422 --> 00:19:02,141 Speaker 3: factored in, though, is the cost when it comes to 347 00:19:02,782 --> 00:19:07,221 Speaker 3: what right terms life productivity. That is, the time of 348 00:19:07,262 --> 00:19:10,341 Speaker 3: person is trapped in a car for our every week. 349 00:19:11,061 --> 00:19:13,821 Speaker 3: A one size fits all approach is also seen to 350 00:19:13,901 --> 00:19:18,581 Speaker 3: punish some demographics more than others. For example, people with 351 00:19:18,742 --> 00:19:22,782 Speaker 3: kids generally, people in their thirties and forties want flexibility 352 00:19:22,861 --> 00:19:26,101 Speaker 3: more than people in say, their sixties, and people who 353 00:19:26,141 --> 00:19:29,941 Speaker 3: have a longer commute. Holly, does this just tell us 354 00:19:29,982 --> 00:19:34,102 Speaker 3: everything about who each politician is trying to appeal to. 355 00:19:34,661 --> 00:19:38,382 Speaker 2: Yes, I think it does. And it's interesting because the 356 00:19:38,502 --> 00:19:41,381 Speaker 2: come back to the office is like a puffer fish 357 00:19:41,621 --> 00:19:45,702 Speaker 2: issue for two groups of people. I'm going to really generalize, Yeah, 358 00:19:46,341 --> 00:19:49,661 Speaker 2: but business leaders they want people to come back to 359 00:19:49,702 --> 00:19:53,902 Speaker 2: the office generally speaking, and those who can't work from 360 00:19:53,901 --> 00:19:56,341 Speaker 2: home want people to go back to the office because 361 00:19:56,341 --> 00:19:59,861 Speaker 2: they're like, why should you get to have this work 362 00:19:59,901 --> 00:20:03,221 Speaker 2: life balance when an enormous amount of people could not 363 00:20:03,262 --> 00:20:06,821 Speaker 2: possibly do their jobs remotely or flexibly. And you know, 364 00:20:06,861 --> 00:20:09,262 Speaker 2: we all know who those people are, but they're everybody 365 00:20:09,542 --> 00:20:13,502 Speaker 2: teach to laborers, to nurses, to doctors to you know, many, 366 00:20:13,542 --> 00:20:16,981 Speaker 2: many many people. So those groups of people are not 367 00:20:17,182 --> 00:20:19,461 Speaker 2: very friendly to this working from home debate, and indeed, 368 00:20:19,462 --> 00:20:21,581 Speaker 2: when we talk about this issue on the show, will 369 00:20:21,661 --> 00:20:23,302 Speaker 2: very often get a lot of feedback from people saying 370 00:20:23,302 --> 00:20:25,262 Speaker 2: this is not relevant to me, I don't like it. 371 00:20:25,661 --> 00:20:28,542 Speaker 2: What's interesting to me is that labor have decided enough 372 00:20:28,621 --> 00:20:33,341 Speaker 2: people are into it that it's worth them defending it publicly. 373 00:20:33,861 --> 00:20:36,821 Speaker 2: That they know, you know, the stats seem to swing 374 00:20:36,861 --> 00:20:38,782 Speaker 2: a lot, but they're saying that about a third of 375 00:20:38,861 --> 00:20:43,181 Speaker 2: people have some kind of hybrid working arrangement these days, 376 00:20:43,702 --> 00:20:47,381 Speaker 2: and that when you poll those people who can work 377 00:20:47,422 --> 00:20:50,262 Speaker 2: from home. It's very clear that a lot most of 378 00:20:50,302 --> 00:20:51,901 Speaker 2: them want to hold on to it. Eighty eight percent 379 00:20:51,901 --> 00:20:55,061 Speaker 2: of Australians say they would prefer to work from home 380 00:20:55,182 --> 00:20:57,782 Speaker 2: some of the time if they could. So it's like 381 00:20:57,982 --> 00:21:02,181 Speaker 2: Albow is kind of deciding I'm going to talk to 382 00:21:02,302 --> 00:21:05,861 Speaker 2: them at the risk of upsetting this group and this group, 383 00:21:05,942 --> 00:21:09,861 Speaker 2: and Dutton has decided these two very different grips groups, 384 00:21:09,942 --> 00:21:13,262 Speaker 2: the business leaders and the people who don't who don't 385 00:21:13,262 --> 00:21:15,821 Speaker 2: support any working from home are more important. 386 00:21:15,462 --> 00:21:19,222 Speaker 1: Which are broadly speaking, the coalition's base here right because 387 00:21:19,262 --> 00:21:21,542 Speaker 1: it's this kind of pincer move that we've seen in 388 00:21:21,742 --> 00:21:24,421 Speaker 1: right wing parties around the globe where they appeal to 389 00:21:25,341 --> 00:21:28,262 Speaker 1: the very rich, they appeal to maybe more of the 390 00:21:28,302 --> 00:21:30,821 Speaker 1: working class, and it's a pincer move that kind of 391 00:21:30,861 --> 00:21:34,742 Speaker 1: cuts out that middle, maybe in this case predominantly white 392 00:21:34,821 --> 00:21:37,462 Speaker 1: collar workers who have the flexibility to work from home. 393 00:21:37,502 --> 00:21:39,821 Speaker 1: Obviously there are exceptions, as you mentioned, Holly, but in 394 00:21:39,861 --> 00:21:42,542 Speaker 1: broad brush strokes, if you divide society up into those 395 00:21:42,542 --> 00:21:44,382 Speaker 1: three classes, it's a pincer move. 396 00:21:44,621 --> 00:21:45,742 Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah. 397 00:21:45,782 --> 00:21:49,742 Speaker 3: And I think there's a general sense of defensiveness when 398 00:21:49,782 --> 00:21:54,061 Speaker 3: you have the opposition leader essentially, and this has happened 399 00:21:54,101 --> 00:21:57,782 Speaker 3: in the US as well, wagging their finger saying you 400 00:21:57,861 --> 00:21:59,941 Speaker 3: need to get back to work. You've been taking like 401 00:22:00,022 --> 00:22:01,941 Speaker 3: it feels like they're saying this isn't what they're saying, 402 00:22:02,222 --> 00:22:04,222 Speaker 3: but it feels like they're saying, you've been taking the piss. 403 00:22:04,302 --> 00:22:07,502 Speaker 3: And I've felt my friends who have had the same 404 00:22:07,542 --> 00:22:10,941 Speaker 3: things happened in their workplaces. Its mirroring what's been happening 405 00:22:10,982 --> 00:22:13,462 Speaker 3: in workplaces for a few years now, which is that 406 00:22:13,942 --> 00:22:18,302 Speaker 3: the boss tries to change this new dynamic and says 407 00:22:18,302 --> 00:22:20,382 Speaker 3: we want people back to work for a heap of 408 00:22:21,101 --> 00:22:24,741 Speaker 3: sometimes incredibly valid reason, for the fact that they have 409 00:22:24,861 --> 00:22:29,902 Speaker 3: an office that's empty, for collaboration, for opportunities for gen 410 00:22:29,982 --> 00:22:33,262 Speaker 3: Z workers who are not getting the hands on training, 411 00:22:33,341 --> 00:22:37,221 Speaker 3: or opportunities to learn from people older than them, for 412 00:22:37,302 --> 00:22:40,022 Speaker 3: mental health reasons. There's heaps and heaps of reasons. But 413 00:22:40,141 --> 00:22:43,181 Speaker 3: I think there's definitely a defensiveness. And this focus on 414 00:22:43,982 --> 00:22:48,181 Speaker 3: the public sector as well, I think is slightly misguided 415 00:22:48,222 --> 00:22:51,542 Speaker 3: because what this research said as well is that they're 416 00:22:51,581 --> 00:22:55,061 Speaker 3: not the number one group that's working from home. In fact, 417 00:22:55,141 --> 00:22:57,661 Speaker 3: it's people in like investment in finance. A lot of 418 00:22:57,661 --> 00:23:00,701 Speaker 3: them are working from home. A lot of media people 419 00:23:00,901 --> 00:23:05,141 Speaker 3: are working from home, and this attack on the public service, 420 00:23:05,422 --> 00:23:09,381 Speaker 3: it makes me really nervous, I think, because there's this 421 00:23:09,661 --> 00:23:13,302 Speaker 3: you that it's bloated, that they waste time, that they 422 00:23:13,341 --> 00:23:18,662 Speaker 3: waste resources, and you know what, perhaps in some little 423 00:23:18,702 --> 00:23:21,661 Speaker 3: pockets there's truth to that, but I also think it 424 00:23:21,782 --> 00:23:25,022 Speaker 3: is so many thousands of people and the people I 425 00:23:25,061 --> 00:23:26,661 Speaker 3: know who work in the public service or working their 426 00:23:26,661 --> 00:23:29,061 Speaker 3: ass off, yeah, I mean, whether it's from home. 427 00:23:28,982 --> 00:23:31,581 Speaker 2: Or yeah, and it's such a varied workforce. Like government 428 00:23:31,661 --> 00:23:34,141 Speaker 2: workers is a term that is being thrown around all 429 00:23:34,182 --> 00:23:35,821 Speaker 2: over the world at the minute as some kind of 430 00:23:35,942 --> 00:23:38,861 Speaker 2: code for like you've got a cushy job. I see it. 431 00:23:39,502 --> 00:23:41,622 Speaker 2: I see it on TikTok all the time, where it's 432 00:23:41,621 --> 00:23:44,621 Speaker 2: somebody like government workers work like this, and it's like 433 00:23:44,661 --> 00:23:47,342 Speaker 2: this tiny portion of the day, mums work like this. 434 00:23:47,381 --> 00:23:49,542 Speaker 2: It's a giant portion that and it's like government workers 435 00:23:49,542 --> 00:23:53,941 Speaker 2: has become like a and it's exactly it is. And 436 00:23:54,101 --> 00:23:58,862 Speaker 2: that's nonsense because that umbrella encapsulates so many different kinds 437 00:23:58,901 --> 00:24:00,381 Speaker 2: of people doing different kinds of jobs. 438 00:24:00,661 --> 00:24:03,302 Speaker 1: Jesse, I think you're right to say that you feel nervous, 439 00:24:03,381 --> 00:24:05,422 Speaker 1: or I agree with you, because I do think it's 440 00:24:05,422 --> 00:24:08,102 Speaker 1: a bit of a cultural or touch point right now, 441 00:24:08,141 --> 00:24:11,421 Speaker 1: this idea of government work as not working very much. 442 00:24:11,901 --> 00:24:15,262 Speaker 1: And I think you also raise an interesting point conversely 443 00:24:15,341 --> 00:24:18,302 Speaker 1: about the fact that it's not always clear who wants 444 00:24:18,341 --> 00:24:20,622 Speaker 1: to get back to the office and why I think 445 00:24:20,621 --> 00:24:23,942 Speaker 1: it's hard to generalize. You mentioned gen ZED there, and 446 00:24:24,302 --> 00:24:28,902 Speaker 1: anecdotally in my experience, gen Z colleagues I have are 447 00:24:28,901 --> 00:24:30,662 Speaker 1: the ones who want to get back to the office 448 00:24:30,702 --> 00:24:33,902 Speaker 1: because they're saying, we're not seeing role models and mentors 449 00:24:33,901 --> 00:24:35,982 Speaker 1: in the office. We don't know how to write an email, 450 00:24:36,022 --> 00:24:38,141 Speaker 1: we don't know how to conduct ourselves in a meeting. 451 00:24:38,542 --> 00:24:41,222 Speaker 1: We need to see other people in order to emulate 452 00:24:41,262 --> 00:24:43,542 Speaker 1: that and to move up the career. Add it, and 453 00:24:43,581 --> 00:24:45,902 Speaker 1: then I've heard managers say that they feel that gen 454 00:24:45,982 --> 00:24:49,821 Speaker 1: ZED workers are being stifled in their career progression because 455 00:24:49,821 --> 00:24:53,821 Speaker 1: they're not able to observe how more senior employees work. 456 00:24:53,982 --> 00:24:56,581 Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting because when you think about it, you know, 457 00:24:56,621 --> 00:25:00,022 Speaker 2: when you're living through these vast changes that we're living 458 00:25:00,061 --> 00:25:01,742 Speaker 2: through all the time of the minute. But it's been 459 00:25:01,821 --> 00:25:04,542 Speaker 2: five years, right, it's been five years since for a 460 00:25:04,621 --> 00:25:07,662 Speaker 2: period there everybody who could be sent home, was sent 461 00:25:07,702 --> 00:25:11,181 Speaker 2: home right and then slowly back. So a lot of 462 00:25:11,182 --> 00:25:13,222 Speaker 2: people in that five year period have entered the workforce 463 00:25:13,262 --> 00:25:15,821 Speaker 2: for the first time, and if they are in a 464 00:25:15,901 --> 00:25:18,421 Speaker 2: what would have once been in a conventional office situation, 465 00:25:18,742 --> 00:25:21,821 Speaker 2: they've never known that. They've never known one hundred percent attendance, 466 00:25:21,861 --> 00:25:24,902 Speaker 2: They've never known Friday night drinks. They've never known all 467 00:25:24,942 --> 00:25:28,302 Speaker 2: of those kind of some important and some less important 468 00:25:28,341 --> 00:25:31,741 Speaker 2: cultural touchdowns of what it means to be constantly around 469 00:25:31,742 --> 00:25:35,821 Speaker 2: these people of different levels of seniority in different jobs 470 00:25:35,821 --> 00:25:38,101 Speaker 2: to you all the time. They've never known that. So 471 00:25:38,782 --> 00:25:41,581 Speaker 2: it's going to be really different. But the thing is 472 00:25:41,581 --> 00:25:44,101 Speaker 2: is that the resistance that comes from because you say 473 00:25:44,141 --> 00:25:46,782 Speaker 2: that about gen z Amelia, and I'm sure that's true 474 00:25:46,782 --> 00:25:49,141 Speaker 2: and accurate, but there is also, I think, because of 475 00:25:49,182 --> 00:25:51,982 Speaker 2: the fact that a large cohort has come of age 476 00:25:52,061 --> 00:25:56,101 Speaker 2: during this time, an expectation that some hybrid model will 477 00:25:56,141 --> 00:26:00,422 Speaker 2: be provided and that insisting on five days a week 478 00:26:00,422 --> 00:26:04,702 Speaker 2: attendance is kind of extreme, and I wonder how that 479 00:26:04,821 --> 00:26:09,381 Speaker 2: tension works itself out without this cultural finger pointing. 480 00:26:09,141 --> 00:26:12,061 Speaker 1: And getting back to the political point, I wonder if 481 00:26:12,141 --> 00:26:16,461 Speaker 1: Dutton knows something more than maybe a lot of people 482 00:26:16,502 --> 00:26:19,182 Speaker 1: do about this debate in the sense that maybe young 483 00:26:19,262 --> 00:26:22,581 Speaker 1: people want to get back to work more than we think. 484 00:26:22,942 --> 00:26:25,622 Speaker 1: Maybe that's why he's pushing this, because he knows a's 485 00:26:25,661 --> 00:26:28,302 Speaker 1: quite a diverse demographic of people who don't like the 486 00:26:28,302 --> 00:26:31,222 Speaker 1: status quo. It's not just the people we talked about before. 487 00:26:31,222 --> 00:26:33,661 Speaker 1: It's not just the managers. It's not just the nurses 488 00:26:33,661 --> 00:26:35,982 Speaker 1: and the bus drivers and the doctors. It's also maybe 489 00:26:36,182 --> 00:26:39,861 Speaker 1: a frustration amongst young people. Well. Ben Affleck is on 490 00:26:39,901 --> 00:26:42,502 Speaker 1: the cover of GQ talking about how much he hates 491 00:26:42,502 --> 00:26:46,821 Speaker 1: attention again. He told the magazine, my life is actually 492 00:26:46,901 --> 00:26:50,461 Speaker 1: pretty drama free, before bringing up of his own accord 493 00:26:50,621 --> 00:26:55,061 Speaker 1: his divorce from Jennifer Lopez. Jesse, you're an expert on breakups, 494 00:26:55,061 --> 00:26:57,141 Speaker 1: you wrote a book about him. How do you think 495 00:26:57,182 --> 00:26:58,542 Speaker 1: Ben is handling his. 496 00:26:59,222 --> 00:27:03,702 Speaker 3: I think that line about my life is actually pretty 497 00:27:03,782 --> 00:27:09,222 Speaker 3: drama free was so revealing, And it was revealing because 498 00:27:10,022 --> 00:27:13,782 Speaker 3: I just kept thinking, beware the man who tells you 499 00:27:13,821 --> 00:27:16,702 Speaker 3: that his life is drama free after a breakup. They 500 00:27:16,702 --> 00:27:21,222 Speaker 3: are the type of man or women who treat their 501 00:27:21,262 --> 00:27:25,262 Speaker 3: partner terribly. They make them paranoid, they undermine them, they 502 00:27:25,782 --> 00:27:30,742 Speaker 3: foster very bizarre behavior and guess what the partner does 503 00:27:30,782 --> 00:27:34,621 Speaker 3: start acting weird because you're cheating on them, right, And 504 00:27:34,702 --> 00:27:39,022 Speaker 3: then when they break up, that person says, I'm glad 505 00:27:39,061 --> 00:27:41,502 Speaker 3: my life is now drama free, when they were the 506 00:27:41,542 --> 00:27:44,741 Speaker 3: ones acting like an idiot. Like I have been in 507 00:27:44,782 --> 00:27:48,862 Speaker 3: this situation where I've had people, you know, a boyfriend 508 00:27:48,942 --> 00:27:51,181 Speaker 3: at the time who every time he went out for 509 00:27:51,222 --> 00:27:54,462 Speaker 3: a drink he'd get a few phone numbers and then 510 00:27:55,022 --> 00:27:58,382 Speaker 3: and that I'd get upset, and then after we broke up, 511 00:27:58,982 --> 00:28:01,222 Speaker 3: he would say, Oh, my life is just so much 512 00:28:01,341 --> 00:28:06,901 Speaker 3: It's just so much less drama, there's less anxiety. I 513 00:28:07,022 --> 00:28:10,101 Speaker 3: just felt like I was just taking on your big 514 00:28:10,141 --> 00:28:12,901 Speaker 3: feelings all the time. And I was like, yeah, I 515 00:28:12,982 --> 00:28:14,742 Speaker 3: bet it's there's less drama. 516 00:28:14,982 --> 00:28:17,061 Speaker 2: But you were the cause of it because you wanted 517 00:28:17,141 --> 00:28:20,542 Speaker 2: to be single and now you are. Maybe you should 518 00:28:21,061 --> 00:28:26,542 Speaker 2: have stayed single in the first place. After the break 519 00:28:27,022 --> 00:28:30,981 Speaker 2: do you need more luck? Being delusional might just be 520 00:28:31,101 --> 00:28:33,222 Speaker 2: the key. Welcome to Lucky Girl. 521 00:28:33,141 --> 00:28:40,422 Speaker 3: Syndrome what unlimited out Loud access. We drop episodes every 522 00:28:40,462 --> 00:28:45,102 Speaker 3: Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Muma Maya subscribers. Follow the 523 00:28:45,142 --> 00:28:47,022 Speaker 3: link in the show notes to get us in your 524 00:28:47,062 --> 00:28:49,902 Speaker 3: ears five days a week and a huge thank you 525 00:28:50,022 --> 00:28:51,502 Speaker 3: to all our current subscribers. 526 00:28:57,262 --> 00:29:00,022 Speaker 1: Try being delusional for a month and tell me if 527 00:29:00,062 --> 00:29:04,662 Speaker 1: your life doesn't change. This is TikTok influencer Laura Glabe, 528 00:29:04,702 --> 00:29:07,742 Speaker 1: who was explaining lucky Girl syndrome, which is a new 529 00:29:07,862 --> 00:29:11,542 Speaker 1: version of the old art of manifestation. If you think 530 00:29:11,582 --> 00:29:14,702 Speaker 1: great things will happen to you, they probably will. Let's 531 00:29:14,742 --> 00:29:16,822 Speaker 1: listen to Laura explain it a little more. 532 00:29:17,182 --> 00:29:19,782 Speaker 5: I genuinely consider myself one of the luckiest people I know, 533 00:29:19,982 --> 00:29:22,221 Speaker 5: Like I get the most insane opportunities thrown at me 534 00:29:22,262 --> 00:29:24,701 Speaker 5: out of nowhere. Literally, no better way to explain it 535 00:29:24,742 --> 00:29:27,661 Speaker 5: than like it feels like the odds are completely in 536 00:29:27,782 --> 00:29:29,661 Speaker 5: my favor. I've thought about this and talked about it 537 00:29:29,661 --> 00:29:31,902 Speaker 5: with friends before to me and like ask myself, like, 538 00:29:31,942 --> 00:29:32,982 Speaker 5: I wonder why. 539 00:29:32,942 --> 00:29:34,382 Speaker 3: This should always happens to me. 540 00:29:34,462 --> 00:29:37,262 Speaker 5: I'm not exactly sure at what point this started for me, 541 00:29:37,462 --> 00:29:40,422 Speaker 5: but ever since I can remember, I have always made 542 00:29:40,462 --> 00:29:43,582 Speaker 5: it a point to tell everyone I am so lucky. 543 00:29:43,661 --> 00:29:46,221 Speaker 5: I just always expect great things to happen to me, 544 00:29:46,382 --> 00:29:48,142 Speaker 5: and so they do. And I know that's gonna be 545 00:29:48,182 --> 00:29:49,782 Speaker 5: someone in the comments who's like, well, that just opens 546 00:29:49,822 --> 00:29:52,182 Speaker 5: more room for disappointment, because if something doesn't go your way, 547 00:29:52,222 --> 00:29:54,742 Speaker 5: then like you're going to be disappointed. Well, no, because 548 00:29:54,782 --> 00:29:56,902 Speaker 5: nothing ever doesn't go my way, and like if it 549 00:29:56,942 --> 00:29:58,822 Speaker 5: doesn't go the exact way that I wanted to go, 550 00:29:58,982 --> 00:30:01,862 Speaker 5: then something better comes up after it. The thing is, 551 00:30:01,902 --> 00:30:05,302 Speaker 5: it wasn't until like genuinely believed that great things just 552 00:30:05,342 --> 00:30:08,062 Speaker 5: happened to me out of nowhere, that things literally started 553 00:30:08,422 --> 00:30:11,981 Speaker 5: flying at my f I'm not kidding constantly, and my 554 00:30:12,062 --> 00:30:14,181 Speaker 5: friends are can vouched for them because they've. 555 00:30:14,022 --> 00:30:14,622 Speaker 1: Heard me say this. 556 00:30:14,782 --> 00:30:18,182 Speaker 5: I'm constantly saying, great things are always happening to me unexpectedly. 557 00:30:18,902 --> 00:30:22,822 Speaker 1: Does she have any friends? That's what she's saying this constantly. 558 00:30:23,422 --> 00:30:26,262 Speaker 1: M Vernon wrote about this phenomenon on Mama Mia recently, 559 00:30:26,342 --> 00:30:29,182 Speaker 1: and she traced the trend's origins back to a woman 560 00:30:29,262 --> 00:30:32,662 Speaker 1: named Esther Hicks. She is an inspirational speaker whose Law 561 00:30:32,702 --> 00:30:36,902 Speaker 1: of Attraction workshops have gone viral online. Hicks has a mattra. 562 00:30:37,062 --> 00:30:39,462 Speaker 1: She says we should be repeating to ourselves multiple times 563 00:30:39,542 --> 00:30:42,022 Speaker 1: daily and especially whenever we feel anxious. Got a pen, 564 00:30:42,142 --> 00:30:44,701 Speaker 1: write this down. Things are always working out for me, 565 00:30:44,782 --> 00:30:47,221 Speaker 1: no matter how it looks. At any point in time, 566 00:30:48,342 --> 00:30:51,262 Speaker 1: I question how new this is. I think every generation 567 00:30:51,502 --> 00:30:54,422 Speaker 1: has a version of manifestation which they sees on two 568 00:30:54,502 --> 00:30:57,181 Speaker 1: twenty years ago. Holly, I'm sure you remember this just 569 00:30:57,222 --> 00:30:59,421 Speaker 1: like I do. It was the Secret by Eronda Byrn 570 00:30:59,622 --> 00:31:02,142 Speaker 1: that was everywhere I remember Zowie Foster Blake back in 571 00:31:02,182 --> 00:31:05,742 Speaker 1: the name checking It that highlighted the importance of gratitude 572 00:31:05,742 --> 00:31:09,661 Speaker 1: and visualization for achieving what you want in life. So 573 00:31:09,782 --> 00:31:12,542 Speaker 1: I will say that sometimes this has worked for me. 574 00:31:12,822 --> 00:31:14,822 Speaker 1: I'm skeptical of it, but I have to admit that 575 00:31:14,902 --> 00:31:17,302 Speaker 1: when I was getting over a horrible breakup earlier in 576 00:31:17,342 --> 00:31:20,902 Speaker 1: my life, I had someone advise me to articulate specifically 577 00:31:20,902 --> 00:31:23,062 Speaker 1: what I wanted in a partner, to sort of both 578 00:31:23,142 --> 00:31:26,902 Speaker 1: visualize identify it, and then visualize it. And I decided 579 00:31:26,902 --> 00:31:29,181 Speaker 1: that the most important quality that I needed in a 580 00:31:29,222 --> 00:31:32,102 Speaker 1: partner was someone who was fun on a wedding dance floor, 581 00:31:32,622 --> 00:31:35,062 Speaker 1: namely because I had been with someone who was very 582 00:31:35,142 --> 00:31:38,302 Speaker 1: not fun on a wedding dance floor. And I got it. 583 00:31:38,342 --> 00:31:40,342 Speaker 1: I got someone who was fun on a wedding dance floor. 584 00:31:41,062 --> 00:31:44,302 Speaker 1: That said, Holly, is this all just toxic positivity blaming 585 00:31:44,382 --> 00:31:45,542 Speaker 1: the victim? In some ways? 586 00:31:45,782 --> 00:31:46,502 Speaker 2: Yes, it is. 587 00:31:46,742 --> 00:31:47,422 Speaker 1: It definitely. 588 00:31:47,502 --> 00:31:52,222 Speaker 2: Is also this bit where she says, I genuinely believe 589 00:31:52,342 --> 00:31:54,701 Speaker 2: I will always get whatever it is I want. I 590 00:31:54,702 --> 00:31:58,421 Speaker 2: think that's called entitlement, right. I think that's what that's called, 591 00:31:58,462 --> 00:32:02,302 Speaker 2: because what happens when you don't like inevitably in your life, 592 00:32:02,342 --> 00:32:04,661 Speaker 2: you are going to come up against not getting exactly 593 00:32:04,702 --> 00:32:06,501 Speaker 2: what it is you want, and then what happens. 594 00:32:06,582 --> 00:32:09,062 Speaker 1: You know, this woman has a very complicated Starbucks order. 595 00:32:10,022 --> 00:32:11,102 Speaker 1: Absolutely know that. 596 00:32:11,462 --> 00:32:15,542 Speaker 2: And it also feels a little bit like the old 597 00:32:15,622 --> 00:32:18,782 Speaker 2: idea that, you know, optimism versus pessimism, like the outcome 598 00:32:18,862 --> 00:32:20,462 Speaker 2: is probably going to be the same, but the optimist 599 00:32:20,502 --> 00:32:22,222 Speaker 2: will have a better time. It's a bit like that, right. 600 00:32:22,262 --> 00:32:24,062 Speaker 2: It's like if you go through life going it's probably 601 00:32:24,062 --> 00:32:25,862 Speaker 2: going to work out. I'm probably going to get this. 602 00:32:25,942 --> 00:32:28,662 Speaker 2: I'm probably going to get that. Maybe you're just generally 603 00:32:28,782 --> 00:32:32,221 Speaker 2: enjoying a little bit more the kind of reality that 604 00:32:32,262 --> 00:32:33,622 Speaker 2: you're going to get some of what you want and 605 00:32:33,661 --> 00:32:35,382 Speaker 2: some of what you're not. How you're focusing on the 606 00:32:35,382 --> 00:32:36,222 Speaker 2: stuff you're going to get. 607 00:32:36,302 --> 00:32:38,062 Speaker 1: I think the energy thing is real, Jesse. 608 00:32:39,022 --> 00:32:44,382 Speaker 3: Look, I am a self professed lucky person. I'm a 609 00:32:44,422 --> 00:32:48,382 Speaker 3: lucky person, and I had this experience years ago, I 610 00:32:48,422 --> 00:32:50,422 Speaker 3: was on a date with this guy. Things were going well, 611 00:32:51,142 --> 00:32:53,622 Speaker 3: and it was a fancy restaurant. I don't know why 612 00:32:53,661 --> 00:32:55,502 Speaker 3: this happened this night, but there was a meat raffle 613 00:32:56,222 --> 00:32:57,822 Speaker 3: and they came over. 614 00:32:58,022 --> 00:33:00,741 Speaker 1: Sorry, was it a fancy restaurant if I had a 615 00:33:00,782 --> 00:33:01,342 Speaker 1: meat raffle? 616 00:33:01,942 --> 00:33:06,182 Speaker 3: Look, I thought it was what I keep going back 617 00:33:06,182 --> 00:33:08,302 Speaker 3: to my memory and I'm like, I'm sure it wasn't 618 00:33:08,342 --> 00:33:10,902 Speaker 3: an RSL. But there was a meat raffle and they 619 00:33:10,982 --> 00:33:14,502 Speaker 3: came over with the little tickets. I feel you know what, 620 00:33:14,661 --> 00:33:16,661 Speaker 3: I feel like, you didn't even have to buy the tickets. 621 00:33:16,661 --> 00:33:18,102 Speaker 3: I feel like it was a thing where they came 622 00:33:18,102 --> 00:33:19,822 Speaker 3: over and gave people tickets. And I looked at this 623 00:33:19,862 --> 00:33:22,062 Speaker 3: person I went, please, no, don't give me a ticket 624 00:33:22,102 --> 00:33:23,862 Speaker 3: because I'm gonna win this fucking meat raffle and I 625 00:33:23,902 --> 00:33:26,302 Speaker 3: don't want a tray of meat on this date. And 626 00:33:26,382 --> 00:33:28,262 Speaker 3: I just went no, no, no, no, no no. And they 627 00:33:28,342 --> 00:33:30,461 Speaker 3: gave us a few tickets and then they went to 628 00:33:30,502 --> 00:33:32,542 Speaker 3: call it. And I was like, the least sexy thing 629 00:33:32,702 --> 00:33:34,661 Speaker 3: to happen would be if I won this tray of 630 00:33:34,702 --> 00:33:35,382 Speaker 3: sexages and. 631 00:33:35,382 --> 00:33:37,262 Speaker 1: Do you know nothing about street Man? 632 00:33:40,022 --> 00:33:44,582 Speaker 3: And we won the fucking meat raffles. I just remember 633 00:33:45,142 --> 00:33:47,221 Speaker 3: walking back to his place and he was just holding this. 634 00:33:47,422 --> 00:33:50,582 Speaker 3: There was no he was still right, really no, I 635 00:33:50,622 --> 00:33:52,902 Speaker 3: think he just it was an ick. I don't think 636 00:33:52,942 --> 00:33:55,262 Speaker 3: that winning a meat raffle on a second date is hot. 637 00:33:55,502 --> 00:33:57,502 Speaker 2: There are some stages of your life when winning a 638 00:33:57,502 --> 00:34:00,102 Speaker 2: meat raffle is great, But be young, single on a 639 00:34:00,222 --> 00:34:03,542 Speaker 2: date where you're probably living like, that's not really useful. 640 00:34:03,622 --> 00:34:07,222 Speaker 2: Like four kilos, that's not really. 641 00:34:07,622 --> 00:34:10,942 Speaker 3: It wasn't it. So being lucky isn't always great. But 642 00:34:11,782 --> 00:34:14,862 Speaker 3: I think there is something to this. And I remember 643 00:34:15,182 --> 00:34:16,902 Speaker 3: learning this at school, and I think it's a bit 644 00:34:16,942 --> 00:34:19,301 Speaker 3: of pseudoscience. I don't think that it's quite accurate. And 645 00:34:19,342 --> 00:34:22,982 Speaker 3: people online call themselves neuroscientists, and I don't think they 646 00:34:23,062 --> 00:34:25,902 Speaker 3: know what that means. But there's something called the reticular 647 00:34:26,102 --> 00:34:31,422 Speaker 3: activating system, which is this thing where if Holly tells 648 00:34:31,422 --> 00:34:33,502 Speaker 3: me that she's bought a new car, and she tells 649 00:34:33,502 --> 00:34:35,861 Speaker 3: me the make and model of that car, suddenly I 650 00:34:35,942 --> 00:34:39,502 Speaker 3: will see that car everywhere. Or someone says, you know 651 00:34:39,661 --> 00:34:42,422 Speaker 3: this new song. You start noticing things if the seed 652 00:34:42,462 --> 00:34:45,661 Speaker 3: is planted right. And that's all this is is that 653 00:34:45,741 --> 00:34:49,221 Speaker 3: if you seed luck early on in your day. Then 654 00:34:49,261 --> 00:34:53,422 Speaker 3: you'll start seeing luck whereas before you didn't. And I 655 00:34:53,422 --> 00:34:57,301 Speaker 3: think the other question that this sort of ass of 656 00:34:57,342 --> 00:34:59,661 Speaker 3: people is what would you do if you believed you 657 00:34:59,701 --> 00:35:03,861 Speaker 3: were lucky? And the answer is I'd probably try more shit. 658 00:35:04,422 --> 00:35:07,862 Speaker 3: So I have a friend who said, oh, you know Emily. 659 00:35:07,942 --> 00:35:10,661 Speaker 3: Emily is so lucky. She wins every competition, you know, 660 00:35:10,701 --> 00:35:13,701 Speaker 3: those online competitions. She went to Disneyland because she won 661 00:35:13,741 --> 00:35:16,502 Speaker 3: this competition, and I'm like, mate, when was the last 662 00:35:16,542 --> 00:35:19,261 Speaker 3: time you entered one of those copts? Think Emily is 663 00:35:19,302 --> 00:35:23,942 Speaker 3: the only one who enters the Disneyland competition, so she goes. 664 00:35:24,622 --> 00:35:29,941 Speaker 3: And I think that women often maybe psych themselves out, 665 00:35:30,022 --> 00:35:31,781 Speaker 3: or you know, they might not go for the job, 666 00:35:31,902 --> 00:35:34,582 Speaker 3: or they might not go on the date because they're 667 00:35:35,181 --> 00:35:37,582 Speaker 3: worried that it won't work out. But in the same 668 00:35:37,622 --> 00:35:41,742 Speaker 3: way that depression, and I have experienced this at moments 669 00:35:41,741 --> 00:35:45,821 Speaker 3: in my life. Depression makes your life sad, like the 670 00:35:46,261 --> 00:35:49,181 Speaker 3: experience and it's chicken or egg. But when I'm in 671 00:35:49,221 --> 00:35:52,502 Speaker 3: a state of depression, objectively bad things start happening in 672 00:35:52,502 --> 00:35:56,062 Speaker 3: my life. It's like you generate them, because I think 673 00:35:56,102 --> 00:35:59,661 Speaker 3: there's probably some part of you that almost revels in it, 674 00:36:00,261 --> 00:36:03,821 Speaker 3: and so this is the opposite. There's something quite. 675 00:36:03,862 --> 00:36:07,942 Speaker 2: It's if you think that any project, anything you try, 676 00:36:08,062 --> 00:36:10,261 Speaker 2: if you allow yourself to be pre paralyzed by the 677 00:36:10,342 --> 00:36:12,741 Speaker 2: idea that it might fail, of course you're going to 678 00:36:12,822 --> 00:36:14,582 Speaker 2: try less shit, as you put it, Jesse. So I 679 00:36:14,622 --> 00:36:18,381 Speaker 2: think that's true. But I'd like to prosecute the delusional 680 00:36:18,422 --> 00:36:20,901 Speaker 2: part of this right because I have a friend who 681 00:36:21,022 --> 00:36:22,741 Speaker 2: one hundred percent is this person. I don't know if 682 00:36:22,741 --> 00:36:25,142 Speaker 2: you've noticed that a lot of modern manifestation seems to 683 00:36:25,181 --> 00:36:27,301 Speaker 2: center around getting car parks where you want them. 684 00:36:28,701 --> 00:36:30,781 Speaker 6: There are many problems in the world that need to 685 00:36:30,822 --> 00:36:33,942 Speaker 6: be solved, but apparently all the positive energy is being 686 00:36:34,102 --> 00:36:38,022 Speaker 6: entirely channeled to there will be a spot outside the place, 687 00:36:38,062 --> 00:36:39,622 Speaker 6: like the cafe I want to go to, and I 688 00:36:39,661 --> 00:36:41,181 Speaker 6: have a friend who's this so she'll go. 689 00:36:41,781 --> 00:36:43,582 Speaker 2: So you'll be talking and we'll go shall we drive? 690 00:36:43,661 --> 00:36:45,221 Speaker 2: And I'll say, oh, you know how hard it is 691 00:36:45,261 --> 00:36:47,661 Speaker 2: to park around there? And she goes, no, it's not 692 00:36:47,781 --> 00:36:49,902 Speaker 2: hard to park. You think it's hard to park. 693 00:36:49,741 --> 00:36:50,262 Speaker 1: It's easy. 694 00:36:50,302 --> 00:36:53,182 Speaker 2: I always get the good park. I've got excellent parking energy. 695 00:36:53,221 --> 00:36:55,582 Speaker 2: And I'm always like, really, baby, and she'd like you 696 00:36:55,582 --> 00:36:57,941 Speaker 2: you get in the car you drive. We will drive 697 00:36:57,982 --> 00:37:00,302 Speaker 2: around the block three times, but no one will say anything. 698 00:37:00,342 --> 00:37:03,821 Speaker 2: Everybody is scared. Everybody has been intimidated into the fact 699 00:37:03,822 --> 00:37:06,781 Speaker 2: that we have positive parkings usual, and eventually, after half 700 00:37:06,822 --> 00:37:08,942 Speaker 2: an hour a parking spot will materialize and she'll go 701 00:37:09,022 --> 00:37:12,982 Speaker 2: see seeing that that's the delusional piece. No, not seeing 702 00:37:13,022 --> 00:37:14,982 Speaker 2: the negative, only seeing the positive. 703 00:37:15,062 --> 00:37:18,341 Speaker 1: I think that's right. But I want to posit that 704 00:37:18,382 --> 00:37:22,622 Speaker 1: this is particularly relevant in love and romance more than 705 00:37:22,741 --> 00:37:26,261 Speaker 1: maybe parking or even work, in the sense that you 706 00:37:26,302 --> 00:37:30,102 Speaker 1: know that old phrase it doesn't rain at pause. Anyone 707 00:37:30,102 --> 00:37:33,062 Speaker 1: who's ever done a lot of dating will know that 708 00:37:33,102 --> 00:37:36,982 Speaker 1: there's a real quality of momentum. When things start to 709 00:37:37,102 --> 00:37:40,262 Speaker 1: pick up in your love life, then all of a sudden, 710 00:37:40,542 --> 00:37:43,942 Speaker 1: everyone's interested in you. I do think that when it 711 00:37:43,982 --> 00:37:48,622 Speaker 1: comes to romance, sending out a positive energy as opposed 712 00:37:48,622 --> 00:37:52,261 Speaker 1: to a desperate energy, say, I think that people pick 713 00:37:52,342 --> 00:37:52,901 Speaker 1: up on that. 714 00:37:52,902 --> 00:37:56,102 Speaker 3: That is really I agree. I think I've got two 715 00:37:56,221 --> 00:37:59,582 Speaker 3: issues with lucky girl syndrome. The first is that it 716 00:37:59,661 --> 00:38:02,941 Speaker 3: is not a very connected way of living. So if 717 00:38:02,982 --> 00:38:06,622 Speaker 3: you're so lucky, there are a few world conflicts that 718 00:38:06,741 --> 00:38:09,982 Speaker 3: could do with your luck, and also your positive vibes, 719 00:38:10,502 --> 00:38:15,422 Speaker 3: less car parks, more wishing well for others. Perhaps the 720 00:38:15,462 --> 00:38:20,382 Speaker 3: second thing is the workshop element. I can explain lucky 721 00:38:20,382 --> 00:38:23,542 Speaker 3: girl syndrome in about eight seconds. I don't need your workshop, 722 00:38:23,822 --> 00:38:26,022 Speaker 3: so I think that there's a business flaw in this 723 00:38:26,502 --> 00:38:29,382 Speaker 3: that people go lucky girl syndrome. All you have to 724 00:38:29,422 --> 00:38:32,142 Speaker 3: do is believe good things will happen. It's so simple. 725 00:38:32,542 --> 00:38:35,782 Speaker 3: Pay twenty eight dollars for my workshop link in bio, 726 00:38:35,822 --> 00:38:38,822 Speaker 3: and I'm like, guys, you've given it away for free, 727 00:38:38,862 --> 00:38:41,742 Speaker 3: Like I just don't know how much more. The life 728 00:38:41,781 --> 00:38:44,661 Speaker 3: coach of it all is just bamboos link to me. 729 00:38:44,701 --> 00:38:46,582 Speaker 3: I would love to know if these people are actually 730 00:38:46,622 --> 00:38:47,342 Speaker 3: making any money. 731 00:38:47,382 --> 00:38:50,741 Speaker 1: This is why you also need to sell face cream affiliates. 732 00:38:50,022 --> 00:38:52,182 Speaker 3: Feeling oh affiliate links so true. 733 00:38:52,622 --> 00:38:55,142 Speaker 2: That is all we have time for my friends today. 734 00:38:55,342 --> 00:38:57,341 Speaker 2: And thank you out louders for being here with us. 735 00:38:57,382 --> 00:39:00,582 Speaker 2: Thank you Jesse Stevens. How you feeling duck oh? 736 00:39:00,622 --> 00:39:02,982 Speaker 3: Look getting there, getting there. But I will say I've 737 00:39:03,022 --> 00:39:06,181 Speaker 3: had a really rough week with our sick kid, and 738 00:39:06,261 --> 00:39:08,542 Speaker 3: I've been sick and we have needed all the distraction 739 00:39:08,622 --> 00:39:11,102 Speaker 3: we can get. Maya has a new podcast and it 740 00:39:11,181 --> 00:39:14,261 Speaker 3: is called how to Build a universe, and it is brilliant, 741 00:39:14,502 --> 00:39:17,861 Speaker 3: especially if you are trying to keep your children. Tell me, 742 00:39:18,022 --> 00:39:21,262 Speaker 3: I don't know about this, Okay. So it's Tom Lyon, 743 00:39:21,422 --> 00:39:24,701 Speaker 3: who is a sound engineer. Mame. He's just he's brilliant. 744 00:39:25,062 --> 00:39:30,462 Speaker 3: He has made this podcast in collaboration with Jen Muir, 745 00:39:30,741 --> 00:39:35,622 Speaker 3: who is a brilliant parenting expert. And what they do is, 746 00:39:35,822 --> 00:39:41,142 Speaker 3: for about ten minutes, takes you through like an imaginary world, 747 00:39:41,422 --> 00:39:44,181 Speaker 3: so a forest, and you have a mission, and you 748 00:39:44,221 --> 00:39:47,781 Speaker 3: come across a magical tree and a magical possum, and 749 00:39:47,822 --> 00:39:49,982 Speaker 3: then this person says this, and there's like funny voices 750 00:39:50,022 --> 00:39:53,542 Speaker 3: and he is you know, some people when they speak 751 00:39:53,542 --> 00:39:56,261 Speaker 3: to children adopt a really sort of patronizing tone, and 752 00:39:56,302 --> 00:39:58,821 Speaker 3: I've always noticed, no matter how young kids are, they 753 00:39:58,822 --> 00:40:02,301 Speaker 3: can see right through it. He doesn't. He's got this 754 00:40:02,542 --> 00:40:06,942 Speaker 3: gift for speaking and engaging children. I would say probably. 755 00:40:07,062 --> 00:40:10,102 Speaker 3: I mean Luna's not even too and she really enjoyed it, 756 00:40:10,422 --> 00:40:13,301 Speaker 3: but I would say probably up to maybe ten. 757 00:40:13,902 --> 00:40:16,062 Speaker 2: So it's a co listening show that you like you 758 00:40:16,102 --> 00:40:17,582 Speaker 2: have on you listen to with your kids. 759 00:40:17,741 --> 00:40:19,661 Speaker 3: Yep. So it's great in the car. And It'll say 760 00:40:19,701 --> 00:40:21,781 Speaker 3: at the beginning, Jen does a really good bit which 761 00:40:21,822 --> 00:40:25,462 Speaker 3: she says, this imaginary play is really important and to 762 00:40:25,502 --> 00:40:27,942 Speaker 3: do it together and then to discuss it is important. 763 00:40:28,261 --> 00:40:31,622 Speaker 3: But you basically go on this journey. It's so engaging, 764 00:40:31,701 --> 00:40:34,422 Speaker 3: so good for imagination. It's called how to Build a Universe. 765 00:40:34,422 --> 00:40:35,502 Speaker 3: We'll have a link in our show notes. 766 00:40:35,622 --> 00:40:38,582 Speaker 1: Have you tried Luna on Gwyneth Paltrow's new podcast? How 767 00:40:38,622 --> 00:40:39,901 Speaker 1: does that came out this week too? 768 00:40:39,982 --> 00:40:42,781 Speaker 3: Okay, so I've actually I tried my other day to 769 00:40:42,781 --> 00:40:45,261 Speaker 3: put on one of my podcasts and she just went was. 770 00:40:45,261 --> 00:40:48,221 Speaker 1: It a true crime podcast about prisly murders? Yeah? 771 00:40:48,542 --> 00:40:50,262 Speaker 3: Her next word will be stab stab step. 772 00:40:50,902 --> 00:40:53,381 Speaker 2: Thank you out louders, Thank you to our amazing team. 773 00:40:53,582 --> 00:40:55,422 Speaker 2: We're going to be back in your ears tomorrow. 774 00:40:55,661 --> 00:40:56,422 Speaker 3: Bye, b B. 775 00:40:57,382 --> 00:41:00,261 Speaker 2: Shout out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If you 776 00:41:00,422 --> 00:41:03,261 Speaker 2: love the show and you want to support us, subscribing 777 00:41:03,302 --> 00:41:05,741 Speaker 2: to Mama Mia is the very best way to do it. 778 00:41:05,942 --> 00:41:07,782 Speaker 2: There's a link in the episode description. 779 00:41:09,622 --> 00:41:13,062 Speaker 6: They will be the back, back, back back