WEBVTT - Craig Challen // Revisiting The Thai cave rescue... 

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<v Speaker 1>I've never heard of somebody on their death bed saying

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<v Speaker 1>I wish I'd spent more time at my desk. So

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<v Speaker 1>this day, as I sit here now, I still really

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<v Speaker 1>can't believe that we got away with it, to have

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<v Speaker 1>been in charge of a little living, breathing human and

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<v Speaker 1>trying to keep them alive. And then you're adding the

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<v Speaker 1>aspect of doing the anesthetic while they're underwater as well,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's mad stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to the Seas the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy

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<v Speaker 2>are not the same thing. We too rarely question what

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<v Speaker 2>makes the heart seeing we work, then we rest, but

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<v Speaker 2>rarely we play, and often don't realize there's more than

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<v Speaker 2>one way. So this is a platform to hear and

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<v Speaker 2>explore the stories of those who found lives they adore,

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<v Speaker 2>the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst days

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<v Speaker 2>will bear all the facets of seizing your yay. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned

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<v Speaker 2>fuentrepreneur who's walked the suits and heels to co found

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<v Speaker 2>matcha Maiden and matcha Milk. CZA is a series of

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<v Speaker 2>conversations on finding a life you love and exploring the

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<v Speaker 2>self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way. It's

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<v Speaker 2>not the first time we've touched on this week's topic

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<v Speaker 2>or guest on the show, but you'll all remember how

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely captivated I was and still am by the Tai

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<v Speaker 2>cave rescue since I read the book Against ol Odds

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<v Speaker 2>by two of the incredible cave rescue divers that details

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<v Speaker 2>just how much more impossible the mission actually was than

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<v Speaker 2>I understood it through the media at the time, and

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<v Speaker 2>I've been yapping about it to anyone who listened. I

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<v Speaker 2>think is one of the most incredible stories to come

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<v Speaker 2>out of humanity and have really been looking for an

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<v Speaker 2>excuse to revisit it again on the show. Our conversation

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<v Speaker 2>with doctor Richard Harris a few years ago is still

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<v Speaker 2>one of our most popular episodes ever, and I've been

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<v Speaker 2>hoping for a long time to get his diving partner, friend,

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<v Speaker 2>co author and co Australian of the Year on the

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<v Speaker 2>show for a while, and I'm so thrilled to finally

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<v Speaker 2>have Craig Chalon here on the show today. Just as

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<v Speaker 2>Harry was, Craig is wildly humble about his pivotal role

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<v Speaker 2>in one of the most incredible stories in recent human history.

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<v Speaker 2>It's as mind blowing as every hearing the details of

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<v Speaker 2>how the unique combination of his passion for technical cave

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<v Speaker 2>diving and his profession as a vet was just what

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<v Speaker 2>the world needed to pull off the impossible. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think you can ever hear this story enough times or

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<v Speaker 2>be any less inspired by its details. I mean, I've

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<v Speaker 2>read so exhaustively about the facts, and they blow my

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<v Speaker 2>mind every time. Coffee colored water, five hour dives, like,

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<v Speaker 2>oh my gosh, the fact that you are literally diving

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<v Speaker 2>through space is so narrow that your shoulders and back

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<v Speaker 2>at touching that, Oh, oh my gosh. I'll let you

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<v Speaker 2>guys listen and enjoy as always. Well, many of us

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<v Speaker 2>have met Craig through the media, you know, during this time,

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<v Speaker 2>we kind of walked into a chapter of his life

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<v Speaker 2>where it seems like he's the hero of humanity.

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<v Speaker 3>I also loved.

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<v Speaker 2>Going through the journey that it took him to get there,

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<v Speaker 2>from country wa through his career as a vet before

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<v Speaker 2>finally finding his love for technical cave diving. As you'll hear,

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<v Speaker 2>Craig epitomizes many of the themes we love to explore

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<v Speaker 2>and seize the a with such an interesting perspective on

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<v Speaker 2>what he thinks is a necessary divide between your work

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<v Speaker 2>and your hobbies, and the idea that you don't necessarily

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<v Speaker 2>need to love your job. You can find your AA elsewhere.

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<v Speaker 2>I found this one so fascinating and I hope you

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<v Speaker 2>guys enjoy as much as I did.

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<v Speaker 3>Craig Challon, Welcome to Seize the A.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you very much. It's great to be with you.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so excited to have you here today and so

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<v Speaker 2>grateful for your time because we get to talk about

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<v Speaker 2>one of humanity's greatest stories and I think one of

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<v Speaker 2>my favorite topics ever.

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<v Speaker 1>No points for guessing what that is, but it is

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<v Speaker 1>a pretty good story.

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<v Speaker 2>I was actually listening to you on another show and

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<v Speaker 2>the interviewer said, people will always remember where they were

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<v Speaker 2>when man landed on the moon or JFK was assassinated.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think a lot of Australians remember where they

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<v Speaker 2>were when they heard about the Tie Cave rescue. But

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<v Speaker 2>I do think many of us didn't fully understand just

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<v Speaker 2>how extraordinary the odds were at the time. The news

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<v Speaker 2>brushed over so many of the details. Hence the name

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<v Speaker 2>of You or Incredible Book Against All Odds co authored

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<v Speaker 2>with doctor Richard Harris, who we have had the pleasure

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<v Speaker 2>of also having on the show. It wasn't until I

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<v Speaker 2>read your book that I fully grasped just how impossibly

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<v Speaker 2>unlikely a successful rescue was and became totally obsessed with

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<v Speaker 2>the details. So I'm really excited to revisit those today

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<v Speaker 2>and the crazy intersection of your profession with your passion,

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<v Speaker 2>as we did with Harry. But first I love to

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<v Speaker 2>trace back through all the chapters that came before this one,

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<v Speaker 2>the one that people meet you in now Australian of

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<v Speaker 2>the Year. You have an Order of Australia Medal, lots

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<v Speaker 2>of letters at the end of your name. You're a

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<v Speaker 2>global hero. So can you take us back to the beginning?

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<v Speaker 2>Who you started as in Thornleigh, Perth. What were you

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<v Speaker 2>like growing up?

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<v Speaker 1>Well? I think on reflection, I probably was born at

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<v Speaker 1>the best time and place in the entirety of human history, really,

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<v Speaker 1>Queen's sixty five in Australia, most particularly Western Australia. It's

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<v Speaker 1>hard to imagine how it could get much better than that, really,

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<v Speaker 1>So I guess I had a pretty ordinary, really childhood

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<v Speaker 1>that was great, you know, I had a fantastic family environment.

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<v Speaker 1>There were four kids in the family. I was the oldest.

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<v Speaker 1>Great deal of encouragement from my parents to seek opportunities

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<v Speaker 1>and to project the idea that there was so much

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<v Speaker 1>out there to do. Lived in the city for the

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<v Speaker 1>first part of my childhood, but in the latter part

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<v Speaker 1>moved out to the country, and that was really the

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<v Speaker 1>most fantastic thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it sounds absolutely idyllic. Western Australia is one

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<v Speaker 2>of the most beautiful parts of the world, and a

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<v Speaker 2>country upbringing is so grounding. But I don't necessarily think

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<v Speaker 2>it foreshadows that you will grow up and become a

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<v Speaker 2>global hero and be welcomed with open arms by the

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<v Speaker 2>King of Thailand and treated by royalty like royalty. It's

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<v Speaker 2>not necessarily what you would expect from your pathway.

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<v Speaker 3>Let alone the sort of unique combination of technical cave

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<v Speaker 3>diving and veterinaries and that led you there. So what

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<v Speaker 3>did you actually think you would be when you grow up?

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<v Speaker 3>Did you have any idea? Do you dreamk this up?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know that I over did. It's as funny

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<v Speaker 1>how everybody always wants you to have had a grand

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<v Speaker 1>plan fear life, and life is not actually like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Most of us are just doing what seems like the

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<v Speaker 1>next logical thing. People respond to incentives and respond to

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<v Speaker 1>their environment. I was just an ordinary kid, later on,

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<v Speaker 1>an ordinary person doing my job, getting an education, and

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<v Speaker 1>admittedly a hobby of cave diving is a little bit unusual.

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<v Speaker 1>Most people have never really heard of it before the

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<v Speaker 1>Ika rescue. But it was just a thing that I

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<v Speaker 1>fell into. I'd always been interested in adventure sports, parachuting

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<v Speaker 1>and climbing, and had a brief and unspectacular career in

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<v Speaker 1>mountaineering and a few other things, as you do, and

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<v Speaker 1>none of them really cold that much. And I did

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<v Speaker 1>scuba diving as part of that course, but looking at

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<v Speaker 1>fish was a bit boring. Really can only take so

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<v Speaker 1>much of that. But like so many things in life,

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<v Speaker 1>just right place, right time. I met someone that was

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<v Speaker 1>a cave diving instructor. As soon as I heard about

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<v Speaker 1>cave diving, I thought that is the thing for me.

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<v Speaker 1>That was twenty seven years ago. Now that's been good.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a fantastic opportunity. I've now been all around the

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<v Speaker 1>world and been to places that nobody has ever been before,

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<v Speaker 1>and seen things that have never had human eyes laid

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<v Speaker 1>on them. And of all the reasons that I really

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<v Speaker 1>like cave diving, that is the one that really gets me.

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<v Speaker 1>You never get tired of that.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, that sounds incredible and you're kind of selling

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<v Speaker 2>it to me, but there are still lots of parts

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<v Speaker 2>that terrify me, which we will get to. But I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>this show is called CZZA because I think we do

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<v Speaker 2>in society spend so much time looking for things like

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<v Speaker 2>success and prestige, but then eventually often realize that all

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<v Speaker 2>we're really looking for is yay. It's fulfillment, happiness and contentment.

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<v Speaker 2>But it eludes people for so long because so few

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<v Speaker 2>of us wake up knowing what we want to be

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<v Speaker 2>and then become that and then you live happily ever after.

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<v Speaker 3>It just so rarely happens that way.

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<v Speaker 2>And when you don't know what you want to be,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, how do you even find out what you're

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<v Speaker 2>passionate about? Like, how would you ever work out that

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<v Speaker 2>you loved technical cave diving without meeting someone? It just

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<v Speaker 2>seems so unlikely, and particularly as a VET, that doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>really seem to connect with what you were already doing.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's why I love your story so much. It's

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<v Speaker 2>not only to tell people about hobbies and pursuits they

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<v Speaker 2>might not have otherwise heard of in case it sparks

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<v Speaker 2>something for them. But also because you can have a

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<v Speaker 2>really unlikely combination of your passion and your profession. You

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<v Speaker 2>can be a veterinary surgeon who loves technical cave diving,

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<v Speaker 2>and that can lead you to be, you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>only person that can help globally in a particular situation.

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<v Speaker 3>So, I mean, how did the combination come about for you?

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<v Speaker 3>Were you already a vet when you started cave diving?

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<v Speaker 3>How did it all work?

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<v Speaker 1>No, I know it'd be pretty sad existence as a job. Really.

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<v Speaker 1>I think I'm a pretty firm believer in keep your

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<v Speaker 1>work you work, and your hobbies your hobbies, and in

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<v Speaker 1>my observation, people that try and mix the two it

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't really go well. And I can particularly it's because

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<v Speaker 1>I know a lot of diving instructors and cave diving instructors.

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<v Speaker 1>To my mind, when they start doing that, it just

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<v Speaker 1>spoils the whole thing because you never get to go

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<v Speaker 1>out and do your own stuff. You're too mixed up

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<v Speaker 1>in making a living, and it's not a particularly good

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<v Speaker 1>living anyway. So you're better off to do what you do,

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<v Speaker 1>and I do think that most people's lives there's probably

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<v Speaker 1>room enough to be good at two things. It's really hard.

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<v Speaker 1>You certainly have to have a great deal more talent

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<v Speaker 1>and gents that I've got to do more than that

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<v Speaker 1>and haven't really got the time. So hopefully your work

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<v Speaker 1>is one of them those of us that are afflicted

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<v Speaker 1>with having to work for a living, which is the

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<v Speaker 1>greater part of the population. And then there's something else

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<v Speaker 1>as well, and you know, whatever it is, your hobby

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<v Speaker 1>or your sport or an alternative occupation or whatever. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>that's completely up to the individual, but it's really worthwhile

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<v Speaker 1>devoting yourself to developing skills that are not something that

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<v Speaker 1>you are then are living from, just for fun and

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<v Speaker 1>satisfaction and challenge.

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<v Speaker 2>That's such a great SoundBite for this show, because I

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<v Speaker 2>think there is, you know, in the pursuit of your yay,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of narrative around loving your job, and lots

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<v Speaker 2>of people do love their job, but it's discouraging for

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<v Speaker 2>those who maybe don't and find their passion in their

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<v Speaker 2>hobbies instead. And I think you're a wonderful example and

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<v Speaker 2>that's a great encouragement that they can be kept separate,

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<v Speaker 2>and sometimes there is a great benefit in doing so.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, you've been passionate in love with your work.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a nice sounding idea, and you're on you or

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<v Speaker 1>anybody else. I'm very happy for you. But there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of pretty mundane jobs out there and somebody has

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<v Speaker 1>to do them. The other thing is that, no matter

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<v Speaker 1>how much you like it, if you're facing up to

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<v Speaker 1>thirty or forty or more years of doing that, then

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<v Speaker 1>there's going to really come a time where you want

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<v Speaker 1>to move on to something else. So you should leave

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<v Speaker 1>an opening in your life. People say I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>what I'd do if I retired, and that just seems

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<v Speaker 1>crazy to me. I mean, what have you been going

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<v Speaker 1>to work for your whole life for. I've never heard

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<v Speaker 1>of somebody on their deathbed saying I wish I'd spent

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<v Speaker 1>more time at my desk.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, one hundred percent. I say that all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>I've never met someone who thinks I wish I worked more.

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<v Speaker 2>I wish I did less of my hobbies. I wish

0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:58.400
<v Speaker 2>I made less time for my family and for joy

0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:01.080
<v Speaker 2>and for the things that really light you up. What

0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.760
<v Speaker 2>I think is the greatest shame is when people do

0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.160
<v Speaker 2>get to sort of that chapter in their lives, like retirement,

0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:09.400
<v Speaker 2>and they don't know what their passions are. It's not

0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:11.000
<v Speaker 2>that they haven't made time for them, but they've never

0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:14.959
<v Speaker 2>even explored who they are enough, because their profession does become.

0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:16.160
<v Speaker 3>The entirety of their identity.

0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:18.280
<v Speaker 2>So speaking to Harry and now speaking to you is

0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:23.360
<v Speaker 2>wonderful because you have dedicated so much time resources, Like

0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:25.400
<v Speaker 2>it's expensive. You know, it's not just sort of a

0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:28.240
<v Speaker 2>hobby where you go and do fingerpainting whatever, Like, it's

0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:30.520
<v Speaker 2>a big undertaking to travel the world to go and

0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.479
<v Speaker 2>find these places, and there's a lot of training and equipment.

0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:35.800
<v Speaker 2>I love that that is all for something that isn't

0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:38.640
<v Speaker 2>your job. It's purely because you enjoy it. But before

0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:40.280
<v Speaker 2>we get to the story, I do want to touch

0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:43.439
<v Speaker 2>quickly on your time as a vet, which, even though

0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:44.840
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't necessarily.

0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:46.400
<v Speaker 3>Your passion, did you enjoy it.

0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:48.839
<v Speaker 2>In my mind, it's one of the best jobs in

0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:50.880
<v Speaker 2>the world because you get to work with animals. But

0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.880
<v Speaker 2>I actually had a couple of followers mentioned and sort

0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.200
<v Speaker 2>of point out to me that it can be incredibly

0:12:56.240 --> 0:13:00.720
<v Speaker 2>tough and there are often some tough mental healths around

0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:01.319
<v Speaker 2>the profession.

0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:03.040
<v Speaker 3>So what was your experience.

0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:07.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so that's well, it's a complicated situation. We could

0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:11.120
<v Speaker 1>talk for a whole day on this. I should open

0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:14.920
<v Speaker 1>by saying I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist, so

0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:18.760
<v Speaker 1>I can only speak for what I've seen with my

0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:22.560
<v Speaker 1>own eyes. I don't know that it's really any worth

0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:27.080
<v Speaker 1>in the vetory profession than in society generally. There is

0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:31.480
<v Speaker 1>some information around the suicide rates are higher amongst vets,

0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:38.640
<v Speaker 1>but there's no real supporting evidence as to why that is.

0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:42.240
<v Speaker 1>And it seems the most obvious explanation to me is

0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:47.240
<v Speaker 1>that vets have got means to do it. Thats are

0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:51.760
<v Speaker 1>They're privileged members of a privileged society here in Australia.

0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you get to do work that is meaningful.

0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:58.440
<v Speaker 1>Can't really top looking after animals, can you. That's the

0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:02.120
<v Speaker 1>trump card of everything than helping people as well, with

0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:06.920
<v Speaker 1>professions full of nice people. So I don't really get it.

0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:10.319
<v Speaker 1>What I'm saying shouldn't be taken to display any lack

0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:14.880
<v Speaker 1>of sympathy for people that have had problems. But why

0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.160
<v Speaker 1>that should be and whether it is any worse in

0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:22.000
<v Speaker 1>the veteran profession, I don't really know, just trying to

0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:24.040
<v Speaker 1>give you an honest opinion, But I don't want to

0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:28.200
<v Speaker 1>look insensitive, because I'm not insensitive to people suffering.

0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:30.960
<v Speaker 2>No, I really appreciate the honesty of that perspective and

0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.320
<v Speaker 2>think it's really positive that you haven't had that experience

0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:37.280
<v Speaker 2>of the industry and it has felt like a privilege.

0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:39.560
<v Speaker 2>Did you enjoy your time as a vet?

0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.840
<v Speaker 1>I did? It was great. I had a couple of

0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.200
<v Speaker 1>careers in one I started out doing clinical work, then

0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:50.960
<v Speaker 1>as I progressed, I built quite a large group of practices,

0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:55.280
<v Speaker 1>and so in the latter part of my career, for

0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:57.600
<v Speaker 1>probably the last ten years or so, I was really

0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:00.600
<v Speaker 1>more of a management VET than a clinic I mean,

0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.480
<v Speaker 1>as a clinician, I was okay. I was a passable VET.

0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:05.960
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't the most fantastic fit in the world. Probably

0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:09.520
<v Speaker 1>my talents lay more in managing other vets and providing

0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.520
<v Speaker 1>an environment for them to be the best that they could.

0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:15.200
<v Speaker 1>In my own humble opinion, I was fairly handy at

0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:16.880
<v Speaker 1>that I met with some success.

0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:22.400
<v Speaker 2>So I was lucky, well wonderful though that you did

0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:26.840
<v Speaker 2>have a great career, but that alongside in this parallel world,

0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:30.880
<v Speaker 2>you were able to excel extraordinarily at being a cave diver.

0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.480
<v Speaker 2>So let's turn to the passion because obviously this is

0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:36.960
<v Speaker 2>such a yay for you and has remained that, like

0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:39.560
<v Speaker 2>you said, many people don't even know what cave diving is,

0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:42.440
<v Speaker 2>just assuming and I think it was the same in

0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:44.800
<v Speaker 2>the case of a Thaire cave rescue, just assuming that

0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:49.360
<v Speaker 2>generally skilled qualified divers can do cave dives. But it's

0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:54.800
<v Speaker 2>quite a specific technical kind of diving. So when you

0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:57.840
<v Speaker 2>first discovered what it was, what was your first dive? Like,

0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:00.000
<v Speaker 2>where do you go from there? Is there a universe?

0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Like you can you know, you can do your scuba

0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.400
<v Speaker 2>diving certification. Is it like that where you find a

0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:07.240
<v Speaker 2>school and you get a teacher and you get a

0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:09.200
<v Speaker 2>certificate and then you can just go and do all

0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:12.080
<v Speaker 2>these places? They sound very hard to access. Is there

0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:16.120
<v Speaker 2>like a association that allocates you dives you're allowed to do?

0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:17.040
<v Speaker 2>Are they ranked?

0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Like?

0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.040
<v Speaker 3>How does it all work when you first get into it?

0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:23.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So when I began, there was a lot more informal, really,

0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:26.840
<v Speaker 1>and there was an association there would defined courses that

0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.200
<v Speaker 1>you did, and that that's how you start out. I mean,

0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:31.280
<v Speaker 1>it can be quite a good diver in open water,

0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:34.760
<v Speaker 1>but that does not qualify you anyway, and it's highly

0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.600
<v Speaker 1>dangerous to just decide to give it a go. There's

0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:41.000
<v Speaker 1>a few obvious things. The most important one, of course,

0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:42.960
<v Speaker 1>is that if something goes wrong, you can't just hit

0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:45.800
<v Speaker 1>the up button and go back to the surface because

0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:49.120
<v Speaker 1>there is no surface. There's rock above you, and so

0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:51.600
<v Speaker 1>you have to be able to deal with any contingency

0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:54.280
<v Speaker 1>not being able to see. If you get lost, you

0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:58.040
<v Speaker 1>need to get unlost again and find your way out.

0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.520
<v Speaker 1>Any equipment failures, you need to have a plan and

0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:04.440
<v Speaker 1>skills and the cool head to deal with them.

0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:05.680
<v Speaker 3>I do not have that.

0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:10.119
<v Speaker 1>It's not for everyone. A lot of people temperamentally aren't

0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:14.320
<v Speaker 1>suited to it, but it certainly doesn't require any special powers.

0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.879
<v Speaker 1>All the people that do it just ordinary people. Really,

0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.560
<v Speaker 1>you need to go out and get the training. First

0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:23.800
<v Speaker 1>of all. There's a long history of people that have

0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.040
<v Speaker 1>come unstuck when they've just decided to give it a

0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:30.520
<v Speaker 1>bit of a go, So I cannot emphasize that enough.

0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:34.080
<v Speaker 1>But I was really lucky in that I met someone

0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:40.119
<v Speaker 1>who was an instructor but also became a bit of

0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:44.080
<v Speaker 1>a mentor to me. Took me on some expeditions way

0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:48.520
<v Speaker 1>before I was probably ready to be doing that. Within

0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:52.080
<v Speaker 1>a few months really of starting cave diving, I was

0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:55.520
<v Speaker 1>doing exploration and laying line, as we call it home,

0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.440
<v Speaker 1>putting guideline in a new cave. When you have that

0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:02.760
<v Speaker 1>sort of beginning, it's really to not have enthusiasm for

0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:03.680
<v Speaker 1>more of it.

0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:04.720
<v Speaker 3>Oh my gosh.

0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:10.119
<v Speaker 2>I love watching people on the show go from talking

0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:13.760
<v Speaker 2>about just normal questions like their childhood and whatever to

0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:15.440
<v Speaker 2>the thing they really love.

0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:17.480
<v Speaker 3>And the whole facial expression changes.

0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:19.639
<v Speaker 2>It's like this light that you get when you talk

0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:21.880
<v Speaker 2>about something you're really passionate about it, particularly when you're

0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.560
<v Speaker 2>thinking about kind of the early days. I love watching

0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.760
<v Speaker 2>that transformation in your body language getting excited about it.

0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:31.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm so transparent, Sarah.

0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:34.520
<v Speaker 2>It's wonderful to see the joy that you get from this.

0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.040
<v Speaker 2>And what fascinates me so much is that coming back

0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:39.000
<v Speaker 2>to that kind of societal pressure, there's a lot of

0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:43.520
<v Speaker 2>not just pressure within people's careers about certain jobs that

0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:45.760
<v Speaker 2>are worth more than others, or that look more successful

0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.600
<v Speaker 2>than others. I think in the realm of hobbies and

0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:52.399
<v Speaker 2>passions and just general interests, there are things that you know,

0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:55.480
<v Speaker 2>people think are like normal and things that people think

0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.400
<v Speaker 2>aren't normal, and we spend a lot of time trying

0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.959
<v Speaker 2>to be like other people. I love that if you

0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:06.159
<v Speaker 2>like cave diving, you like or really you spend a

0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:08.520
<v Speaker 2>lot of effort going to do a pursuit that most

0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:12.040
<v Speaker 2>people would describe as their nightmare. And that's the best part. Like,

0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:15.000
<v Speaker 2>I think it's such a good reminder that everyone enjoys

0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:18.720
<v Speaker 2>different things. Something that would make someone else crumble into

0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:22.240
<v Speaker 2>a ball of fear is someone else's joy, Like it's

0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:24.119
<v Speaker 2>meant to be like that. We're all composed of different things.

0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:26.480
<v Speaker 2>Like you said, you don't think of yourself as particularly special,

0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:28.280
<v Speaker 2>but you must be wide in a way where you

0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:32.680
<v Speaker 2>can be cool, not just cool and calm in water

0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:35.720
<v Speaker 2>that you can't see through, in tunnels that like are

0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:39.000
<v Speaker 2>so claustrophobic to the average person, and not just.

0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:43.000
<v Speaker 3>Calm, but you enjoy that. I love that it's possible

0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:43.600
<v Speaker 3>for us to have.

0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:46.239
<v Speaker 2>Such a broad range of interest as humanity, and your

0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:47.959
<v Speaker 2>hobbies don't need to look like anyone else's. I think

0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:48.919
<v Speaker 2>it's the point I'm trying to make.

0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:50.080
<v Speaker 3>I love that, Well, it.

0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:51.960
<v Speaker 1>Would be a pretty boring old world if we were

0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:55.400
<v Speaker 1>all the same, wouldn't it. And what I don't get

0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:59.480
<v Speaker 1>is people that don't really try anything. Just get out

0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:01.440
<v Speaker 1>there and you don't know what it is that where

0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:04.600
<v Speaker 1>your destiny lies, then just do something. Get started. At

0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:07.560
<v Speaker 1>least you'll require some skills and knowledge and meet some

0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.360
<v Speaker 1>new people. If it's not really for you, then go

0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:14.760
<v Speaker 1>and do something else. Nobody's got a lifetime long enough

0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:18.159
<v Speaker 1>to try it, or so if someone sets out to

0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:22.879
<v Speaker 1>be World crochet Champion, you know, good luck to them. Really,

0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:25.560
<v Speaker 1>I admire that it just be the best that you

0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:25.960
<v Speaker 1>can be.

0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:29.640
<v Speaker 2>I love that I was a corporate lawyer beforehand, and

0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:31.920
<v Speaker 2>when I sort of was asked, you know, what would

0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:34.080
<v Speaker 2>you do instead? Like, you know, at times when i'd

0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:36.320
<v Speaker 2>express it, I wasn't particularly happy doing what I would do.

0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:37.879
<v Speaker 2>They'd be like, well, what are your passions and what

0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:39.960
<v Speaker 2>are your interest and I'd say, well, I don't know,

0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:42.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what my passions are. And I think

0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:43.360
<v Speaker 2>someone one day sat.

0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:45.440
<v Speaker 3>Me down and said, well, like what are you trying?

0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:47.960
<v Speaker 3>Like what are you signed up for? And I was like,

0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:50.080
<v Speaker 3>oh nothing, and so that well.

0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:51.760
<v Speaker 2>How are you going to figure out what you're passionate

0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:53.960
<v Speaker 2>about if you're not going out and trying something like

0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:57.160
<v Speaker 2>you need to be actively exploring who you are to.

0:20:57.080 --> 0:20:58.639
<v Speaker 3>Figure out what you like and what you don't like.

0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:00.440
<v Speaker 2>And even finding out that you don't like something, I

0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:03.080
<v Speaker 2>think is a good amount of data to help you

0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:04.679
<v Speaker 2>get closer to the things that you do like. So

0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:07.159
<v Speaker 2>I love that advice to just go crochet, go and

0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:08.600
<v Speaker 2>do pottery, like figure out what it is.

0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:10.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And you know, when I look back, I mean,

0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:13.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm not a person for regrets at all. I think

0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:17.600
<v Speaker 1>that regret is the most destructive human emotion. You just

0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:21.000
<v Speaker 1>do what you do at the time and make the

0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:23.840
<v Speaker 1>best decisions that you can based on the information that

0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:26.560
<v Speaker 1>you've got. But you know, if I was going to

0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:31.120
<v Speaker 1>regret one thing, it would be that when I was younger,

0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:35.600
<v Speaker 1>I just wasted so much time. You think that you've

0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:38.360
<v Speaker 1>got all the time in the world and that it'll

0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.760
<v Speaker 1>never catch up with you. And I'm fifty nine years

0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:44.320
<v Speaker 1>old now, so I'm not done yet. I've still had

0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:47.720
<v Speaker 1>a few more dives left in me. But I look

0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:50.920
<v Speaker 1>back and I think I could have achieved so much

0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:54.760
<v Speaker 1>more if I hadn't just pissed time up against the wall. Really,

0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:58.320
<v Speaker 1>you're not going to have big regretting having done too much.

0:21:59.000 --> 0:21:59.520
<v Speaker 3>I love that.

0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:02.639
<v Speaker 2>Often said, I make decisions based on a future regret

0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:05.280
<v Speaker 2>management matrix more than anything else, and like, will future

0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:07.760
<v Speaker 2>me regret this even if current me is like, fuck no,

0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:10.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to do that. Like future me would

0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:13.359
<v Speaker 2>rather regret doing it than having not done it and

0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:15.600
<v Speaker 2>letting the time pass anyway, because like the clock is

0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:17.520
<v Speaker 2>ticking no matter what, so you might as well have

0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:19.800
<v Speaker 2>done the experience. It'd rather regret having done it. And

0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:22.800
<v Speaker 2>it is always such a random sequence of decisions like

0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:25.840
<v Speaker 2>that that lead you to the pivotal moments in your life.

0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:27.760
<v Speaker 2>Which brings me back to the story I've been so

0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:31.600
<v Speaker 2>excited to chat to you about, and I mean one

0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:33.600
<v Speaker 2>of the parts I love the most. There are so

0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:38.680
<v Speaker 2>many parts, but it is that unique intersection of your

0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:42.560
<v Speaker 2>passion for technical cave diving and your job as a vet.

0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:47.439
<v Speaker 2>Like in all the world, the entire world of people

0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:50.600
<v Speaker 2>and all the different combinations of skills that exist, with

0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:54.880
<v Speaker 2>so many different options of how to solve this problem

0:22:54.960 --> 0:23:00.880
<v Speaker 2>that seemed impossible, that it was you and Harry who

0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:03.800
<v Speaker 2>got brought in from somewhere like I don't even know

0:23:03.840 --> 0:23:07.040
<v Speaker 2>how they even found you. I love that it wasn't

0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:10.399
<v Speaker 2>necessarily your professions, but it was your hobbies that made

0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:14.040
<v Speaker 2>you the perfect people for this one thing that happened

0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:18.000
<v Speaker 2>during your lifetimes. Like that, just it blows my mind

0:23:18.200 --> 0:23:20.959
<v Speaker 2>that they know, they called navy seals, they called other governments,

0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:23.399
<v Speaker 2>they called blah blah, and it was these two lads

0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:24.639
<v Speaker 2>from Australia.

0:23:24.200 --> 0:23:25.280
<v Speaker 3>Doing something that they loved.

0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:27.800
<v Speaker 2>It isn't even their job that could do the dive

0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:31.040
<v Speaker 2>technically enough like that, just it just blows my mind,

0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:32.600
<v Speaker 2>still blows my mind.

0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:35.440
<v Speaker 1>Well, I should hasten to say that there are other

0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:38.960
<v Speaker 1>people involved as well, it wasn't just me and Harry

0:23:41.119 --> 0:23:43.600
<v Speaker 1>really to how they found us is as you get

0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:47.040
<v Speaker 1>higher up the food chain and cave diving, it's a

0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:50.520
<v Speaker 1>pretty small group of people. Really. Everybody knows each other

0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:54.720
<v Speaker 1>or knows of each other at least, and so it

0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:58.240
<v Speaker 1>doesn't really take long to make a list of who

0:23:58.280 --> 0:24:00.320
<v Speaker 1>you would really want on a mission like that. Two

0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:03.240
<v Speaker 1>British guys were Extanton and John Balanthon were the first

0:24:03.240 --> 0:24:06.480
<v Speaker 1>people on side of the first recognized cave divers on site,

0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:10.440
<v Speaker 1>and Harry and I know them quite well, particularly Rick.

0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:13.680
<v Speaker 1>I've done a lot of diving with him over the years,

0:24:14.359 --> 0:24:17.760
<v Speaker 1>and yeah, I wouldn't have taken too much imagination.

0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:19.919
<v Speaker 2>And yet it did take a lot of imagination to

0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:21.879
<v Speaker 2>come up with the solution that you did end up

0:24:21.920 --> 0:24:24.280
<v Speaker 2>coming up with. So I think what I find so

0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:27.240
<v Speaker 2>fascinating about this whole thing is that in the media,

0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:31.119
<v Speaker 2>it did appear this whole thing has happened. These boys

0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:35.720
<v Speaker 2>entered a cave, we don't know the cave got flooded out,

0:24:35.760 --> 0:24:38.200
<v Speaker 2>we don't know if they're alive, and it was all

0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:39.760
<v Speaker 2>you know for a couple of days. Kind of it

0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:41.760
<v Speaker 2>felt like a blip on the radar. Then suddenly they

0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:43.840
<v Speaker 2>were out. Like in our media, that's kind of how

0:24:43.880 --> 0:24:49.080
<v Speaker 2>it seemed. It was like big problem holding breath, people

0:24:49.080 --> 0:24:50.680
<v Speaker 2>have gone over, experts of debt with it.

0:24:50.840 --> 0:24:51.320
<v Speaker 3>They're out.

0:24:51.920 --> 0:24:54.000
<v Speaker 2>And then when I read the book, the subtleties of

0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:58.560
<v Speaker 2>everyone involved had moments of thinking it was over. It

0:24:58.560 --> 0:25:02.480
<v Speaker 2>was impossible, Like I don't think it was conveyed to

0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:05.840
<v Speaker 2>the lay person in Australia, how touch and go the

0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:09.920
<v Speaker 2>situation was, how impossible and unlike you said, like the

0:25:09.920 --> 0:25:12.119
<v Speaker 2>book is called against all odds, Like I just didn't

0:25:12.200 --> 0:25:16.240
<v Speaker 2>understand that at the time. So hearing the details has

0:25:16.280 --> 0:25:17.560
<v Speaker 2>been my favorite story.

0:25:17.240 --> 0:25:17.760
<v Speaker 3>Ever to hear.

0:25:17.920 --> 0:25:20.520
<v Speaker 2>So can you talk us through You didn't even get

0:25:20.520 --> 0:25:23.560
<v Speaker 2>there till day thirteen. Elon Musk had already been and

0:25:23.600 --> 0:25:25.879
<v Speaker 2>gone talk us through the situation.

0:25:26.240 --> 0:25:28.879
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so it's I mean, it didn't seem all that

0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:34.000
<v Speaker 1>different to us either. I developed slowly and we didn't

0:25:34.040 --> 0:25:35.879
<v Speaker 1>know what was going to happen. And I mean so

0:25:35.960 --> 0:25:39.080
<v Speaker 1>this day, as I sit here now, I still really

0:25:39.119 --> 0:25:43.160
<v Speaker 1>can't believe that we got away with it. Wow, it

0:25:43.240 --> 0:25:46.680
<v Speaker 1>was pretty radical stuff to be bringing these kids out

0:25:46.840 --> 0:25:50.919
<v Speaker 1>when it was first suggested that there would be a

0:25:50.960 --> 0:25:54.439
<v Speaker 1>cave diving rescue through two point two kilometers of a

0:25:54.520 --> 0:26:00.240
<v Speaker 1>fairly gnally dive. Really, for us doing it just by ourselves,

0:26:00.320 --> 0:26:03.640
<v Speaker 1>without taking patience out and rescuing someone, it still would

0:26:03.640 --> 0:26:06.919
<v Speaker 1>have been a pretty sporting afternoon out really. But to

0:26:06.960 --> 0:26:10.240
<v Speaker 1>have be in charge of a little living, breathing human

0:26:10.520 --> 0:26:13.639
<v Speaker 1>and trying to keep them alive, and then you're adding

0:26:13.840 --> 0:26:18.440
<v Speaker 1>the aspect of doing the anesthetic while they're underwater as well,

0:26:18.440 --> 0:26:21.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's just that's mad stuff. If somebody had

0:26:22.040 --> 0:26:24.439
<v Speaker 1>come up with this as a script and given it

0:26:24.480 --> 0:26:27.440
<v Speaker 1>to me to read, I would have thought, nah, mate,

0:26:28.119 --> 0:26:31.280
<v Speaker 1>it's too far fetched, going to tone it down a

0:26:31.280 --> 0:26:33.919
<v Speaker 1>little bit, but that's the way it was, and to

0:26:34.000 --> 0:26:39.119
<v Speaker 1>have gotten all thirteen of them out just still seems unbelievable.

0:26:39.200 --> 0:26:43.800
<v Speaker 1>We were one hundred percent prepared for casualties. It just

0:26:43.800 --> 0:26:46.840
<v Speaker 1>seemed fanciful for me me that we'd get them all out.

0:26:47.200 --> 0:26:51.680
<v Speaker 1>The only thing that really motivated us was that we knew,

0:26:51.720 --> 0:26:53.600
<v Speaker 1>we were convinced that if they stayed in the cave,

0:26:53.640 --> 0:26:56.359
<v Speaker 1>they were doomed. There was no chance of survival. It

0:26:56.480 --> 0:26:58.720
<v Speaker 1>was going to be months for the cave dried out

0:26:58.760 --> 0:27:01.760
<v Speaker 1>and the water stop flowing. So we had to give

0:27:01.760 --> 0:27:04.600
<v Speaker 1>it a go. And even if we just got one

0:27:04.800 --> 0:27:08.080
<v Speaker 1>out alive, that still would have been an improvement on

0:27:08.440 --> 0:27:11.639
<v Speaker 1>none of them surviving, so that was worth it. But

0:27:12.040 --> 0:27:16.679
<v Speaker 1>it's still weighs fairly heavily upon your shoulders at the time,

0:27:17.200 --> 0:27:20.680
<v Speaker 1>thinking that we might end up dragging them all out

0:27:20.720 --> 0:27:23.600
<v Speaker 1>of the cave in body bags would not have been

0:27:23.600 --> 0:27:25.200
<v Speaker 1>a really very cool scenario.

0:27:25.600 --> 0:27:28.040
<v Speaker 2>So again, I think it did seem like we called

0:27:28.080 --> 0:27:30.120
<v Speaker 2>in the experts. The experts did their thing. You brought

0:27:30.160 --> 0:27:33.439
<v Speaker 2>them out amazing, But I mean, I didn't even know

0:27:33.520 --> 0:27:36.680
<v Speaker 2>that before you guys had had the call up. Like first,

0:27:36.720 --> 0:27:38.440
<v Speaker 2>there was a big period of time where they hadn't

0:27:38.440 --> 0:27:41.560
<v Speaker 2>even found the boys. So, you know, so for everyone listening,

0:27:41.600 --> 0:27:43.919
<v Speaker 2>if you didn't know, the boys went in when the

0:27:43.960 --> 0:27:46.360
<v Speaker 2>cave was dry, so they were able to walk in,

0:27:46.920 --> 0:27:48.879
<v Speaker 2>and there was you know, obviously wasn't flooded at the

0:27:48.880 --> 0:27:51.320
<v Speaker 2>time they went in, and then it flooded and the

0:27:51.440 --> 0:27:53.520
<v Speaker 2>chambers sort of all filled up, So they were a

0:27:53.640 --> 0:27:56.439
<v Speaker 2>very very long way in from the entrance where they started,

0:27:56.440 --> 0:27:58.720
<v Speaker 2>and they obviously got stuck there and couldn't get out.

0:27:59.040 --> 0:28:01.040
<v Speaker 2>It took you know, a lot of days to even

0:28:01.160 --> 0:28:04.439
<v Speaker 2>figure out that where they were if they were alive,

0:28:04.560 --> 0:28:06.199
<v Speaker 2>and then there was a scram or just sort of

0:28:06.200 --> 0:28:08.879
<v Speaker 2>figure out how you would ever get them out. I

0:28:09.040 --> 0:28:10.720
<v Speaker 2>read or I think I heard you on a different

0:28:10.760 --> 0:28:14.520
<v Speaker 2>podcast saying that, I mean, you got the call with

0:28:14.640 --> 0:28:15.760
<v Speaker 2>two hours before.

0:28:15.560 --> 0:28:16.560
<v Speaker 3>You had to get on the plane.

0:28:16.880 --> 0:28:19.919
<v Speaker 2>Had you been waiting for the call? Did you know

0:28:20.040 --> 0:28:22.760
<v Speaker 2>that they were thinking about because their initial plans weren't

0:28:22.800 --> 0:28:24.720
<v Speaker 2>to do a cave dive. Were they was there a

0:28:24.760 --> 0:28:25.720
<v Speaker 2>submarine plan?

0:28:26.200 --> 0:28:30.720
<v Speaker 1>There were heaps of plans. It seemed like people from

0:28:30.760 --> 0:28:32.760
<v Speaker 1>all over the world were just popping their heads up

0:28:32.800 --> 0:28:35.920
<v Speaker 1>with bright ideas, and it was pretty easy to present

0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:39.120
<v Speaker 1>yourself as an expert in that environment at the time,

0:28:39.360 --> 0:28:42.560
<v Speaker 1>so there was all sorts of stuff going on, but

0:28:43.240 --> 0:28:46.480
<v Speaker 1>all those other plans just one by one they fell away,

0:28:46.880 --> 0:28:50.040
<v Speaker 1>were eliminated as implausible, are going to take too much time,

0:28:50.120 --> 0:28:54.840
<v Speaker 1>and it just more and more looked like cave diving.

0:28:55.440 --> 0:28:58.240
<v Speaker 1>But days were ticking by. Harry and I are still

0:28:58.280 --> 0:29:02.440
<v Speaker 1>sitting here in Australia, and even on the day before

0:29:02.560 --> 0:29:06.200
<v Speaker 1>we left, it looked like we weren't going to get

0:29:06.240 --> 0:29:10.200
<v Speaker 1>a guernsey and that we weren't really wanted. Up there

0:29:10.640 --> 0:29:14.360
<v Speaker 1>just seemed to be drifting, and it was pretty chaotic

0:29:14.520 --> 0:29:17.240
<v Speaker 1>up there as well, because nobody knew what to do.

0:29:17.760 --> 0:29:21.160
<v Speaker 1>The taie authorities were a bit lost about what the

0:29:21.200 --> 0:29:23.400
<v Speaker 1>best course of action was, and I can't really blame

0:29:23.480 --> 0:29:26.360
<v Speaker 1>them for that because there's not really any precedent for

0:29:26.440 --> 0:29:29.680
<v Speaker 1>this situation. Of all the things that the governance might

0:29:29.720 --> 0:29:32.720
<v Speaker 1>have thought of, this was not really on the list,

0:29:33.480 --> 0:29:38.000
<v Speaker 1>so I certainly can't hold that against them. But it

0:29:38.120 --> 0:29:42.040
<v Speaker 1>all just really came together over a few hours, and yeah,

0:29:42.040 --> 0:29:44.760
<v Speaker 1>you're quite right. We got the call to get yourself

0:29:44.800 --> 0:29:48.200
<v Speaker 1>to the airport, so it had to very hastily because

0:29:48.200 --> 0:29:50.400
<v Speaker 1>we were all packed up for another dive trip. So

0:29:50.400 --> 0:29:53.640
<v Speaker 1>I had to unpack, reconfigure, throw some stuff in a bag,

0:29:53.760 --> 0:29:57.200
<v Speaker 1>and just go. It was pretty frantic at the time.

0:29:57.400 --> 0:29:59.440
<v Speaker 2>Do you put your hand up? Like, because I think,

0:29:59.600 --> 0:30:04.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, normal channels of governments and militaries, you'd kind

0:30:04.160 --> 0:30:06.440
<v Speaker 2>of be looking at seals and all that kind of stuff.

0:30:06.480 --> 0:30:09.400
<v Speaker 2>But that having not been successful, how do you guys

0:30:09.400 --> 0:30:11.920
<v Speaker 2>put your hand up and use the channels? Or were

0:30:11.920 --> 0:30:15.000
<v Speaker 2>you just waiting for someone to suggest you, like, do.

0:30:15.000 --> 0:30:16.200
<v Speaker 3>You know what I mean? How did the kind of

0:30:16.200 --> 0:30:16.960
<v Speaker 3>logistics work?

0:30:17.280 --> 0:30:21.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? I know. We were totally volunteered. We were super cane.

0:30:22.040 --> 0:30:25.800
<v Speaker 1>We've been interested in cave rescue for quite a long time,

0:30:26.120 --> 0:30:31.000
<v Speaker 1>and the cave diving rescues that don't come around very often.

0:30:31.080 --> 0:30:35.280
<v Speaker 1>There's only three or depending on how you define it,

0:30:35.440 --> 0:30:40.440
<v Speaker 1>for cave diving rescues ever occurred, including this one in Wow.

0:30:40.920 --> 0:30:45.280
<v Speaker 1>And so I was prepared in my own mind to

0:30:45.320 --> 0:30:48.520
<v Speaker 1>go a whole lifetime without ever going getting to do one.

0:30:49.120 --> 0:30:54.440
<v Speaker 1>So when opportunity knocks, your best answer the door. Really Wow. Yeah,

0:30:54.560 --> 0:30:56.000
<v Speaker 1>we didn't have to be talked into it.

0:30:56.200 --> 0:30:58.920
<v Speaker 2>So you took all your own equipment. This was all

0:30:59.200 --> 0:31:02.040
<v Speaker 2>stuff you had for your own pursues. And you just

0:31:02.040 --> 0:31:03.960
<v Speaker 2>had to kind of neck it all on over there.

0:31:04.440 --> 0:31:08.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, somewhat. I took what we thought we would need.

0:31:08.640 --> 0:31:11.560
<v Speaker 1>As it turned out, we start, we use slightly different equipment,

0:31:11.680 --> 0:31:14.360
<v Speaker 1>so gathered a bit up when we're over there, but

0:31:14.800 --> 0:31:20.360
<v Speaker 1>essentially it was our stuff. Yeah, wow, and throw it in.

0:31:20.640 --> 0:31:24.479
<v Speaker 1>I'm pretty used to packing for trips by now after

0:31:24.880 --> 0:31:27.360
<v Speaker 1>twenty seven years, so that didn't take very long.

0:31:27.520 --> 0:31:31.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, although I imagine it's never been such a quite

0:31:31.280 --> 0:31:35.200
<v Speaker 2>high stakes environment. So can you talk us through the

0:31:35.240 --> 0:31:38.880
<v Speaker 2>actual nitty gritty of the dive itself? Because again, when

0:31:38.960 --> 0:31:41.120
<v Speaker 2>I heard that there were divers, I kind of just

0:31:41.120 --> 0:31:43.280
<v Speaker 2>thought you were going down and that your water is

0:31:43.360 --> 0:31:45.479
<v Speaker 2>clear in most cases, you know. I was like, oh,

0:31:45.520 --> 0:31:47.800
<v Speaker 2>you're swimming and look at the fishes, but you know

0:31:48.440 --> 0:31:51.640
<v Speaker 2>it was coffee colored water. You said two point two

0:31:51.720 --> 0:31:54.320
<v Speaker 2>k's in and obviously then you have to come back out.

0:31:54.440 --> 0:31:56.120
<v Speaker 3>So someone had.

0:31:56.000 --> 0:31:58.959
<v Speaker 2>Gone all the way in, and are they laying like

0:31:59.000 --> 0:32:01.080
<v Speaker 2>a guy for like, how you know where you're going?

0:32:02.160 --> 0:32:04.640
<v Speaker 2>How tight were the kind of holes that you need

0:32:04.640 --> 0:32:07.520
<v Speaker 2>to get through? How long was it in and out?

0:32:07.600 --> 0:32:09.360
<v Speaker 2>Like for us two k's in and out? I don't

0:32:09.360 --> 0:32:11.040
<v Speaker 2>sort of know what that translates.

0:32:10.560 --> 0:32:12.320
<v Speaker 3>To like, yeah, to talk us through the stats of

0:32:12.360 --> 0:32:12.760
<v Speaker 3>the dive.

0:32:13.200 --> 0:32:16.160
<v Speaker 1>So I think the most pertinent thing for people to

0:32:16.200 --> 0:32:18.520
<v Speaker 1>realize is that we couldn't really see anything at all.

0:32:18.840 --> 0:32:23.560
<v Speaker 1>The water is filled with silt and mud, and occasionally

0:32:23.560 --> 0:32:25.640
<v Speaker 1>you just get a bit of a glimpse of some

0:32:26.040 --> 0:32:28.480
<v Speaker 1>clear water. There were a couple of side passages that

0:32:28.520 --> 0:32:32.080
<v Speaker 1>were bringing in clear water, but the main river channel

0:32:33.240 --> 0:32:40.920
<v Speaker 1>everything was done by feel, and so we always place

0:32:41.240 --> 0:32:44.880
<v Speaker 1>a guideline to follow in cave diving. That is the

0:32:45.000 --> 0:32:48.840
<v Speaker 1>number one absolute cast iron rule of cave diving. That

0:32:50.000 --> 0:32:52.920
<v Speaker 1>you have a continuous guideline from the surface, so you

0:32:52.960 --> 0:32:57.040
<v Speaker 1>can follow that and that's enough information to get you

0:32:57.120 --> 0:33:01.760
<v Speaker 1>in and get you out again. And so it just

0:33:01.920 --> 0:33:04.440
<v Speaker 1>start at the beginning. I mean, it was two point

0:33:04.440 --> 0:33:09.760
<v Speaker 1>two kilometers in, but that's not for what we do normally.

0:33:10.200 --> 0:33:13.000
<v Speaker 1>That's not that big a deal. I've been far further

0:33:13.080 --> 0:33:17.840
<v Speaker 1>than that. So the day before the rescue started, Harry

0:33:17.880 --> 0:33:20.520
<v Speaker 1>and I did a WRECKI dive in there just so

0:33:20.560 --> 0:33:24.280
<v Speaker 1>we could experience the cave for ourselves and see how

0:33:24.280 --> 0:33:26.480
<v Speaker 1>difficult was going to be, and also to suss the

0:33:26.560 --> 0:33:28.640
<v Speaker 1>kids out, see how they were going as well, and

0:33:28.760 --> 0:33:33.080
<v Speaker 1>just what sort of condition that they were in. And

0:33:33.400 --> 0:33:37.120
<v Speaker 1>it took us about two hours to get in there

0:33:37.240 --> 0:33:37.960
<v Speaker 1>the first time.

0:33:38.200 --> 0:33:40.880
<v Speaker 3>Two hours one way, that's one way to get in.

0:33:41.040 --> 0:33:42.880
<v Speaker 1>We had a couple of hours with the kids there

0:33:42.960 --> 0:33:46.120
<v Speaker 1>and just chatting to them, telling them what was well.

0:33:46.120 --> 0:33:48.920
<v Speaker 1>We had a letter written in tie with us that

0:33:49.080 --> 0:33:51.760
<v Speaker 1>explained what was going to happen, and the course was

0:33:51.800 --> 0:33:56.120
<v Speaker 1>pretty much set for the next day by then, and

0:33:56.200 --> 0:33:59.400
<v Speaker 1>so that was read out to the kids. They are

0:33:59.520 --> 0:34:05.120
<v Speaker 1>just oh, yeah, right, you're going to have an anesthetic

0:34:05.240 --> 0:34:09.920
<v Speaker 1>and dive through the cave whatevers needed. And they were

0:34:09.960 --> 0:34:12.680
<v Speaker 1>really cool. These kids, they get ten out of ten

0:34:12.719 --> 0:34:16.839
<v Speaker 1>from me, no doubt. They were tough little customers. They

0:34:16.880 --> 0:34:20.560
<v Speaker 1>get a lot of credit. You know, with survival, A

0:34:20.640 --> 0:34:22.760
<v Speaker 1>big part of it and when you're going to survive

0:34:22.920 --> 0:34:26.000
<v Speaker 1>or not is just being equal to the task and

0:34:26.040 --> 0:34:28.719
<v Speaker 1>making the decision that you are going to survive. The

0:34:28.800 --> 0:34:32.600
<v Speaker 1>rest follows from that. And you hear these stories about

0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:36.640
<v Speaker 1>people just giving up and the end is inevitable in

0:34:36.640 --> 0:34:40.840
<v Speaker 1>that case, but I think those kids were pretty determined

0:34:40.880 --> 0:34:43.319
<v Speaker 1>that wasn't going to happen to them. That was the

0:34:43.360 --> 0:34:46.240
<v Speaker 1>trip in and when we're coming out, when had kids

0:34:46.239 --> 0:34:49.480
<v Speaker 1>with us. Our estimate, which turned out to be pretty accurate,

0:34:49.680 --> 0:34:51.720
<v Speaker 1>was that it was going to take three hours to

0:34:51.760 --> 0:34:54.839
<v Speaker 1>get out with them, given that they had to have

0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:59.440
<v Speaker 1>top ups of anesthetic on the way out, and just

0:35:00.120 --> 0:35:01.880
<v Speaker 1>you generally looked after.

0:35:01.960 --> 0:35:02.880
<v Speaker 3>Oh my goodness.

0:35:04.200 --> 0:35:07.440
<v Speaker 2>So, I mean, there's so many I mean, I already

0:35:07.440 --> 0:35:09.040
<v Speaker 2>know all this, but it just it still gets me

0:35:09.120 --> 0:35:12.920
<v Speaker 2>every time. It's just so so fascinating that, I mean,

0:35:12.960 --> 0:35:17.480
<v Speaker 2>the whole thing that the sedation idea, because so if

0:35:17.520 --> 0:35:19.839
<v Speaker 2>I remember correctly, it was ketamine, and in my brain,

0:35:19.920 --> 0:35:21.319
<v Speaker 2>this is such a you're not going to think this.

0:35:21.320 --> 0:35:23.799
<v Speaker 3>Is such an amateur jump to make intellectually.

0:35:23.280 --> 0:35:24.880
<v Speaker 2>But my brain went, oh, that must have been a

0:35:24.920 --> 0:35:26.720
<v Speaker 2>vet because ketomene is a horse trank closer.

0:35:27.200 --> 0:35:28.280
<v Speaker 3>What's that your idea?

0:35:29.480 --> 0:35:31.880
<v Speaker 1>No, so it actually, I mean it is pretty pretty

0:35:31.880 --> 0:35:34.839
<v Speaker 1>widely used in human field medicine. It's okay, like if

0:35:34.840 --> 0:35:37.000
<v Speaker 1>you're in a car crash or have some sort of accident,

0:35:37.040 --> 0:35:39.680
<v Speaker 1>they need to do a field procedure on you straighten

0:35:39.680 --> 0:35:42.479
<v Speaker 1>out your leg or put your shoulder back in after

0:35:42.520 --> 0:35:44.279
<v Speaker 1>it's just like haded or something like that. There's a

0:35:44.320 --> 0:35:46.919
<v Speaker 1>fair chance you're going to get kedek in because it's

0:35:47.160 --> 0:35:51.000
<v Speaker 1>really safe and easy to administer in the field, so

0:35:51.080 --> 0:35:56.880
<v Speaker 1>it was perfect. But the actual idea came from the

0:35:56.920 --> 0:36:02.800
<v Speaker 1>sort of powa veterinary source, a friend of Harry's who's

0:36:03.000 --> 0:36:05.560
<v Speaker 1>a doctor, but he'd been doing some fieldwork on seals

0:36:05.560 --> 0:36:10.440
<v Speaker 1>in Antarctica and they were using ketamine to slow the

0:36:10.480 --> 0:36:13.279
<v Speaker 1>seals down a bit so they can take blood from them,

0:36:13.960 --> 0:36:17.600
<v Speaker 1>and that was the origin of the suggestion.

0:36:17.760 --> 0:36:19.840
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, I'm in the much as I'd like.

0:36:19.880 --> 0:36:21.800
<v Speaker 1>To take credit for it, but I can't really.

0:36:22.719 --> 0:36:24.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean, then you had to administer it, so you

0:36:24.360 --> 0:36:26.520
<v Speaker 2>could definitely take credit for that.

0:36:26.840 --> 0:36:28.920
<v Speaker 1>It would be easy. I know my way around a

0:36:28.960 --> 0:36:30.400
<v Speaker 1>sy engine needle by now.

0:36:30.400 --> 0:36:32.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, the fact that you and Harry do I

0:36:32.560 --> 0:36:36.480
<v Speaker 2>mean Harry being an an nethetist, but the other divers,

0:36:37.560 --> 0:36:43.640
<v Speaker 2>their intersection of skills was not necessarily inclusive of administering injections.

0:36:43.680 --> 0:36:47.080
<v Speaker 2>So was it them who was practicing in like bottles?

0:36:47.400 --> 0:36:50.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Yeah, So there were some when it was pointed

0:36:50.840 --> 0:36:53.279
<v Speaker 1>out to these guys that were going to be administering

0:36:53.320 --> 0:36:56.120
<v Speaker 1>the anesthetic underwater in a cave, there were some pretty

0:36:56.120 --> 0:37:00.640
<v Speaker 1>apprehensive faces around the table. Fair enough, but you know,

0:37:00.880 --> 0:37:03.360
<v Speaker 1>these are the world's best cave divers they can do

0:37:03.520 --> 0:37:06.080
<v Speaker 1>sort of people, especially since they weren't given much choice

0:37:06.080 --> 0:37:08.400
<v Speaker 1>in the matter, they eventually decided they were up for

0:37:08.480 --> 0:37:12.279
<v Speaker 1>it and decided to give it a go. So, yeah,

0:37:12.320 --> 0:37:14.960
<v Speaker 1>they had a quick lecture and then they all had

0:37:14.960 --> 0:37:16.840
<v Speaker 1>a practice because some of them had never given an

0:37:16.880 --> 0:37:21.600
<v Speaker 1>injection before at all, and so they all injected some

0:37:21.719 --> 0:37:26.040
<v Speaker 1>water into some plastic coat poddles and that was it.

0:37:26.160 --> 0:37:29.960
<v Speaker 1>They were good to go. Oh my gosh, seems like

0:37:29.960 --> 0:37:33.880
<v Speaker 1>a pretty big deal, but in principle, it's pretty simple.

0:37:33.920 --> 0:37:36.240
<v Speaker 1>You just put the drugs in, the patient goes to sleep,

0:37:36.960 --> 0:37:37.440
<v Speaker 1>where you go.

0:37:37.680 --> 0:37:42.320
<v Speaker 2>Was that to control the sort of panic and disorientation,

0:37:42.640 --> 0:37:46.400
<v Speaker 2>because obviously they'd never die like normal adults probably would

0:37:46.400 --> 0:37:49.319
<v Speaker 2>lose their call in that situation having never done it

0:37:49.320 --> 0:37:50.800
<v Speaker 2>before a little on a small child.

0:37:50.880 --> 0:37:52.120
<v Speaker 3>Was that where the idea came from.

0:37:52.520 --> 0:37:55.319
<v Speaker 1>Oh totally yeah. I mean, I imagine the situation that

0:37:55.400 --> 0:37:59.280
<v Speaker 1>these kids were in. They would have to be completely

0:37:59.320 --> 0:38:01.759
<v Speaker 1>trusting of the diver though were with they wouldn't be

0:38:01.760 --> 0:38:04.719
<v Speaker 1>able to see anything for it up to three hours.

0:38:05.160 --> 0:38:07.600
<v Speaker 1>It was going to be a pretty rough old journey

0:38:08.360 --> 0:38:10.600
<v Speaker 1>going out of this cave. It's not just like swimming

0:38:10.640 --> 0:38:12.839
<v Speaker 1>down the inside of the pipe of a pipe, there's

0:38:13.400 --> 0:38:16.600
<v Speaker 1>twists and turns and all sorts of projections and obstacles

0:38:16.680 --> 0:38:20.719
<v Speaker 1>which I certainly kept swimming into. And they were going

0:38:20.760 --> 0:38:22.640
<v Speaker 1>to take a bit of a beating. They were going

0:38:22.680 --> 0:38:25.040
<v Speaker 1>to get really cold. It was not going to be

0:38:25.400 --> 0:38:28.760
<v Speaker 1>a fun time for them. And for a lot of people,

0:38:28.800 --> 0:38:33.239
<v Speaker 1>breathing off scuba underwater is a quite disconcerting experience when

0:38:33.239 --> 0:38:35.000
<v Speaker 1>they first try it as well. There's a lot of

0:38:35.000 --> 0:38:38.200
<v Speaker 1>people that don't really take to it straight away. But

0:38:38.680 --> 0:38:40.799
<v Speaker 1>they weren't going to get any practice. They were just

0:38:40.880 --> 0:38:43.880
<v Speaker 1>going to be straight into it, and if any of

0:38:43.920 --> 0:38:47.120
<v Speaker 1>them did panic underwater, then there was pretty much all

0:38:47.200 --> 0:38:51.840
<v Speaker 1>over just threshing around uncontrollably under the water. There was

0:38:51.840 --> 0:38:55.279
<v Speaker 1>not much chance of survival from that. And they could

0:38:55.360 --> 0:38:57.960
<v Speaker 1>also take a diver out with them as well, because

0:38:58.280 --> 0:39:02.440
<v Speaker 1>the divers would have compelled to make the best efforts

0:39:02.480 --> 0:39:06.960
<v Speaker 1>to save these kids. So, as crazy as it seems,

0:39:07.280 --> 0:39:11.520
<v Speaker 1>we decided that maybe the anesthetic was the best way forward.

0:39:11.840 --> 0:39:15.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, anesthetizing someone and then putting their head

0:39:16.040 --> 0:39:19.319
<v Speaker 1>underwater for three hours, that is it's not really cool.

0:39:19.400 --> 0:39:22.080
<v Speaker 1>It's not something that you do. So it's a little

0:39:22.080 --> 0:39:23.080
<v Speaker 1>bit dangerous. Yeah.

0:39:23.200 --> 0:39:26.279
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think that's when you really appreciate how

0:39:26.440 --> 0:39:29.120
<v Speaker 2>dire the situation was otherwise, that that was still the

0:39:29.160 --> 0:39:34.120
<v Speaker 2>best option, even given how unusual that is. It's interesting

0:39:34.160 --> 0:39:36.960
<v Speaker 2>to me and I loved hearing that even now you

0:39:37.080 --> 0:39:40.359
<v Speaker 2>still are surprised that it all worked out, like that's

0:39:40.400 --> 0:39:41.960
<v Speaker 2>how unlikely it truly was.

0:39:42.520 --> 0:39:44.799
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, well, look, if we were in the same

0:39:44.920 --> 0:39:50.000
<v Speaker 1>situation now, I would still be very apprehensive about doing this,

0:39:50.640 --> 0:39:54.200
<v Speaker 1>and you've looked for any other way of achieving the

0:39:54.239 --> 0:39:58.520
<v Speaker 1>outcome if you could. But sometimes you've just got to

0:39:58.520 --> 0:40:00.040
<v Speaker 1>make a choice and get into it.

0:40:00.160 --> 0:40:04.479
<v Speaker 2>So my biggest thing that I find really fascinating about

0:40:04.480 --> 0:40:08.440
<v Speaker 2>the human brain is how, especially now, we are so

0:40:09.520 --> 0:40:14.200
<v Speaker 2>unaccustomed to stillness or quiet or boredom. It's very like

0:40:14.239 --> 0:40:16.600
<v Speaker 2>instant gratuity. How can I be stimulated all the time,

0:40:17.239 --> 0:40:19.839
<v Speaker 2>and like a lot of I think attention issues coming

0:40:19.840 --> 0:40:21.080
<v Speaker 2>out of the fact that we all need to be

0:40:21.160 --> 0:40:25.640
<v Speaker 2>stimulated all the time. I imagine that you know, underwater and

0:40:26.040 --> 0:40:28.880
<v Speaker 2>without any visual stimulation for long periods of time, that

0:40:28.920 --> 0:40:32.600
<v Speaker 2>it's a scenario that most people don't get an equivalent

0:40:32.640 --> 0:40:35.239
<v Speaker 2>of during daily life. We don't have to sit with

0:40:35.280 --> 0:40:39.400
<v Speaker 2>our thoughts in complete quiet like that very often? What

0:40:39.520 --> 0:40:42.440
<v Speaker 2>do you think about when you're doing a dive, a

0:40:42.480 --> 0:40:45.120
<v Speaker 2>normal dive, and then what were you thinking about in

0:40:45.200 --> 0:40:47.960
<v Speaker 2>Thailand when you're on the way in on the way out?

0:40:48.000 --> 0:40:52.720
<v Speaker 3>Like how do you steal the chaos for three hours?

0:40:53.440 --> 0:40:58.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so it's not really like that. Like when you're

0:40:58.640 --> 0:41:02.919
<v Speaker 1>doing the dive self, then it's got your attention. There's

0:41:02.920 --> 0:41:06.880
<v Speaker 1>always something to think about. Are where you're going, is

0:41:06.880 --> 0:41:10.520
<v Speaker 1>the equipment? Okay? Where are the other people that are

0:41:10.560 --> 0:41:14.919
<v Speaker 1>around you? If there are any around you? It's not

0:41:15.040 --> 0:41:20.520
<v Speaker 1>just boring empty time that does come. So that doesn't

0:41:20.520 --> 0:41:23.360
<v Speaker 1>really apply to Thailand. But some of the big deep

0:41:23.440 --> 0:41:28.759
<v Speaker 1>dives that we do, we do hours and hours. I've

0:41:28.800 --> 0:41:31.360
<v Speaker 1>done some dives we're doing up to sixteen hours of

0:41:31.400 --> 0:41:37.600
<v Speaker 1>decompression and they sitting waiting really, so you get to

0:41:37.920 --> 0:41:40.640
<v Speaker 1>get plenty of time to consider your place in the

0:41:40.719 --> 0:41:44.520
<v Speaker 1>universe and just think about things.

0:41:44.640 --> 0:41:45.400
<v Speaker 3>What do you think of that?

0:41:46.160 --> 0:41:48.440
<v Speaker 2>Can you evolution into music underwater or do you use

0:41:48.440 --> 0:41:50.320
<v Speaker 2>it literally just you and yourself.

0:41:51.520 --> 0:41:53.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm not really so much into that. Some people do that.

0:41:54.160 --> 0:41:58.640
<v Speaker 1>It has its little logistical problems, but they're not insurmountable.

0:42:00.320 --> 0:42:02.920
<v Speaker 1>That's not a real big thing for me. I don't know,

0:42:03.239 --> 0:42:08.320
<v Speaker 1>just getting the zone and plan the next start of

0:42:08.680 --> 0:42:13.840
<v Speaker 1>something like that. Bit of working out any problems in

0:42:13.880 --> 0:42:17.800
<v Speaker 1>your life, you get the opportunity to reflect on them. Wow,

0:42:18.200 --> 0:42:20.480
<v Speaker 1>just do what you've got to do. You've done the crime.

0:42:20.960 --> 0:42:22.560
<v Speaker 1>Just sit there and do the time.

0:42:23.960 --> 0:42:27.880
<v Speaker 2>What about in Thailand? Were there any moments even during

0:42:27.960 --> 0:42:31.400
<v Speaker 2>the dive where, like, apart from the kids, were there

0:42:31.440 --> 0:42:36.040
<v Speaker 2>any moments where you were sort of like fearful or worried,

0:42:36.480 --> 0:42:39.080
<v Speaker 2>like for your own safety. I know there was a

0:42:39.120 --> 0:42:41.279
<v Speaker 2>Thai Navy seal diver who didn't make it. Was it

0:42:41.320 --> 0:42:42.919
<v Speaker 2>ever sort of dicey for you?

0:42:43.320 --> 0:42:46.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? No, there was not really, I mean for us.

0:42:46.840 --> 0:42:50.640
<v Speaker 1>This is not not, by a long shot, the narhlist

0:42:50.840 --> 0:42:54.960
<v Speaker 1>dive that we've ever done. So I was pretty confident,

0:42:55.080 --> 0:42:57.799
<v Speaker 1>I mean, happily in a cave, I am invincible and

0:42:57.840 --> 0:43:00.839
<v Speaker 1>cannot be killed anyway, so I have to worry too

0:43:00.880 --> 0:43:04.240
<v Speaker 1>much about that. It was all sort of okay from

0:43:04.440 --> 0:43:07.640
<v Speaker 1>that point of view, which is much. There was one

0:43:07.680 --> 0:43:11.319
<v Speaker 1>incident where on the first day of the rescue and

0:43:11.920 --> 0:43:14.000
<v Speaker 1>there was a problem with the compressor that had been

0:43:14.040 --> 0:43:18.680
<v Speaker 1>filling our cylinders and we had really bad air and

0:43:19.040 --> 0:43:22.239
<v Speaker 1>so a few of us were getting getting headaches and

0:43:22.280 --> 0:43:26.000
<v Speaker 1>getting sick and stuff like that that was not really good.

0:43:26.040 --> 0:43:28.839
<v Speaker 1>And this was on the dive into the cave to

0:43:28.880 --> 0:43:31.720
<v Speaker 1>rescue the boys on the first day, so we didn't

0:43:31.800 --> 0:43:36.160
<v Speaker 1>really need that very much. So when we had a chance,

0:43:36.200 --> 0:43:38.359
<v Speaker 1>we sort of marshaled all the cylinders we had and

0:43:38.680 --> 0:43:41.080
<v Speaker 1>tasted the air out of them as best we could,

0:43:41.400 --> 0:43:43.720
<v Speaker 1>and I managed to come up with some that weren't

0:43:43.760 --> 0:43:47.400
<v Speaker 1>going to kill us. But there were some harsh words

0:43:47.400 --> 0:43:50.360
<v Speaker 1>spoken at the end of that day about the quality

0:43:50.360 --> 0:43:53.560
<v Speaker 1>of the breathing gas that we were being given. But anyway,

0:43:53.719 --> 0:43:56.600
<v Speaker 1>that everything always turns out okay in the end, and

0:43:57.160 --> 0:44:00.759
<v Speaker 1>so did that. One. The concern that we had was

0:44:00.880 --> 0:44:04.719
<v Speaker 1>just for the kids that they weren't going to make

0:44:04.760 --> 0:44:07.600
<v Speaker 1>it through. I mean, at least we were in control

0:44:07.640 --> 0:44:11.040
<v Speaker 1>of our own destiny, and if something went wrong for us,

0:44:11.080 --> 0:44:13.359
<v Speaker 1>it was because we'd made a mistake, so we can

0:44:13.400 --> 0:44:16.040
<v Speaker 1>take responsibility for that. We do it every time we

0:44:16.200 --> 0:44:20.000
<v Speaker 1>go diving. But those kids, they just had to take

0:44:20.120 --> 0:44:23.880
<v Speaker 1>what was coming to them. So, you know, I don't know,

0:44:24.520 --> 0:44:26.440
<v Speaker 1>like you try and think, well, we were doing the

0:44:26.480 --> 0:44:29.919
<v Speaker 1>best that we could, and nobody can ask for any

0:44:29.960 --> 0:44:33.400
<v Speaker 1>more than that, but it still would have been pretty

0:44:33.480 --> 0:44:36.279
<v Speaker 1>upsetting if we'd started to lose these kids. I don't know,

0:44:36.520 --> 0:44:37.920
<v Speaker 1>never really came to find out about it.

0:44:37.960 --> 0:44:39.520
<v Speaker 3>Well you didn't have to, which is wonderful.

0:44:39.560 --> 0:44:41.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I can't even imagine, like over it was

0:44:41.600 --> 0:44:44.520
<v Speaker 2>what three days, I think it dives in and out,

0:44:44.520 --> 0:44:47.840
<v Speaker 2>in and out and alternating between. Were there four of you,

0:44:48.480 --> 0:44:50.759
<v Speaker 2>five of you that were sort of alternating going in

0:44:50.800 --> 0:44:51.120
<v Speaker 2>and out?

0:44:51.920 --> 0:44:55.680
<v Speaker 1>Six of us in the yeah, yep, I mean Harry

0:44:55.719 --> 0:44:57.800
<v Speaker 1>and I had stations. So Harry was in a chamber

0:44:57.880 --> 0:45:00.960
<v Speaker 1>nine with the boys and he was doing the inductions

0:45:01.000 --> 0:45:05.600
<v Speaker 1>of the anesthetic and sending them on their way, and

0:45:05.960 --> 0:45:09.719
<v Speaker 1>I was downstream a bit. So after they had their

0:45:09.719 --> 0:45:14.400
<v Speaker 1>first dive, which was about three hundred meters so maybe

0:45:14.440 --> 0:45:17.279
<v Speaker 1>twenty minutes or so, I can't remember exactly, and then

0:45:17.280 --> 0:45:20.000
<v Speaker 1>they'd come out, there was another dry chamber there, so

0:45:20.120 --> 0:45:22.200
<v Speaker 1>the boys all had to come out of the water.

0:45:22.760 --> 0:45:25.399
<v Speaker 1>It carried across this dry chamber, which was a few

0:45:25.440 --> 0:45:28.479
<v Speaker 1>hundred meters long, have all their gear taken across, put

0:45:28.480 --> 0:45:30.880
<v Speaker 1>them back in the water again, and send them on

0:45:30.920 --> 0:45:37.120
<v Speaker 1>their way. So that was my station. So that was. Yeah,

0:45:37.200 --> 0:45:41.520
<v Speaker 1>they were tough. Long days and the other four British

0:45:41.600 --> 0:45:45.280
<v Speaker 1>divers were actually diving them out, or other five British

0:45:45.280 --> 0:45:51.399
<v Speaker 1>divers on the last day, so you know, probably like emotionally,

0:45:51.800 --> 0:45:53.920
<v Speaker 1>the toughest part of it was at the end of

0:45:53.960 --> 0:45:58.279
<v Speaker 1>that first day when we were bringing four boys out

0:45:58.280 --> 0:46:01.759
<v Speaker 1>on the first day, so that all gone and we

0:46:01.840 --> 0:46:05.680
<v Speaker 1>just had to dive ourselves out following them. We gave

0:46:05.719 --> 0:46:07.959
<v Speaker 1>them a bit of a head start so we didn't

0:46:08.040 --> 0:46:11.640
<v Speaker 1>catch up to them and just headed out, and of

0:46:11.680 --> 0:46:14.799
<v Speaker 1>course we had no idea how things had gone. Harry

0:46:14.840 --> 0:46:17.680
<v Speaker 1>and I didn't know if we were going to arrive

0:46:17.760 --> 0:46:22.480
<v Speaker 1>back at dive Base and find four corpses there that

0:46:22.640 --> 0:46:26.359
<v Speaker 1>hadn't made it. No idea, so the pressure was off

0:46:26.480 --> 0:46:29.919
<v Speaker 1>us at that stage, but that was all I could

0:46:29.960 --> 0:46:33.480
<v Speaker 1>really think about, just a bit apprehensive about what the

0:46:34.040 --> 0:46:37.160
<v Speaker 1>result was going to be. I can clearly remember. I mean,

0:46:37.160 --> 0:46:39.960
<v Speaker 1>it's one of my outstanding memories is getting back to

0:46:40.800 --> 0:46:45.640
<v Speaker 1>dive Base on that first day and I just stuck

0:46:45.680 --> 0:46:47.600
<v Speaker 1>my head out of the water and I said, did

0:46:47.640 --> 0:46:51.759
<v Speaker 1>anyone survive? And the guys that were there said, yep,

0:46:52.200 --> 0:46:55.879
<v Speaker 1>all good, four out of four, no problems. And I'll

0:46:55.920 --> 0:46:58.440
<v Speaker 1>never really forget that moment, it was just like the

0:46:58.480 --> 0:47:00.759
<v Speaker 1>weight of the world had been lifted off my shoulders,

0:47:00.800 --> 0:47:04.359
<v Speaker 1>and you start to think, maybe this crazy plan can

0:47:04.480 --> 0:47:07.280
<v Speaker 1>actually work against all expectations.

0:47:07.400 --> 0:47:11.600
<v Speaker 2>I mean, what an extraordinary an extraordinary thing for humanity,

0:47:11.960 --> 0:47:15.720
<v Speaker 2>Like it's just it stands out as one of these Yeah,

0:47:15.760 --> 0:47:18.600
<v Speaker 2>like everyone remembers where they were when they first heard this.

0:47:18.560 --> 0:47:20.840
<v Speaker 3>Story, like it's it's absolutely crazy.

0:47:20.920 --> 0:47:23.920
<v Speaker 2>And I mean, you know I said to you when

0:47:23.960 --> 0:47:25.960
<v Speaker 2>I first emailed you, I just think you too a

0:47:26.120 --> 0:47:28.480
<v Speaker 2>legendary And I know you continue to refer to yourself

0:47:28.480 --> 0:47:31.040
<v Speaker 2>as just a normal person, but most normal people haven't

0:47:31.480 --> 0:47:34.279
<v Speaker 2>literally saved sort of the lives of thirteen other human

0:47:34.320 --> 0:47:37.719
<v Speaker 2>beings and all their extended families and everyone in their

0:47:37.760 --> 0:47:40.960
<v Speaker 2>lives who you've given you the gift of their future.

0:47:41.080 --> 0:47:43.920
<v Speaker 2>So just extraordinary blows my mind.

0:47:45.239 --> 0:47:47.400
<v Speaker 1>Well, it is a pretty good story. I'm going to

0:47:47.440 --> 0:47:47.759
<v Speaker 1>admit that.

0:47:48.080 --> 0:47:50.320
<v Speaker 3>I mean, you should admit it. It's an amazing story.

0:47:52.320 --> 0:47:54.759
<v Speaker 2>What has it been, I mean it's been what four

0:47:55.280 --> 0:47:57.080
<v Speaker 2>twenty eighteen six years?

0:47:57.440 --> 0:47:58.359
<v Speaker 1>Six years? Yeah?

0:47:58.719 --> 0:48:01.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, how do you feel? How is your relationship to

0:48:01.160 --> 0:48:03.960
<v Speaker 2>diving now afterwards? Did it change after that? Did you

0:48:04.000 --> 0:48:06.359
<v Speaker 2>not dive for a little while, like how did How

0:48:06.400 --> 0:48:07.640
<v Speaker 2>did things feel afterwards?

0:48:07.800 --> 0:48:09.239
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I had a bit of catching up to do.

0:48:09.280 --> 0:48:13.480
<v Speaker 1>That that was a little trip, so it put us behigh.

0:48:13.560 --> 0:48:16.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that was that was pretty good. We had

0:48:16.800 --> 0:48:19.319
<v Speaker 1>no idea at the time that this was such a

0:48:19.400 --> 0:48:23.080
<v Speaker 1>huge story around the world because we're just there. It

0:48:23.200 --> 0:48:26.000
<v Speaker 1>was somewhat isolated, pretty busy.

0:48:26.160 --> 0:48:27.759
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you were busy. You had enough to do.

0:48:28.200 --> 0:48:31.719
<v Speaker 1>We weren't watching TV or anything like that. Had a

0:48:31.719 --> 0:48:34.359
<v Speaker 1>little bit of feedback from home, but that was about it,

0:48:34.800 --> 0:48:39.200
<v Speaker 1>but just didn't have any comprehension that this was occupying

0:48:39.480 --> 0:48:43.319
<v Speaker 1>so much attention. And it was really only once we

0:48:43.360 --> 0:48:46.200
<v Speaker 1>got back to Australia that it became clear to us

0:48:46.320 --> 0:48:49.600
<v Speaker 1>that we had got a bit of attention and some

0:48:49.760 --> 0:48:53.000
<v Speaker 1>notoriety I suppose. I mean, it was all all in

0:48:53.040 --> 0:48:56.880
<v Speaker 1>a good way. But when you're just an ordinary bloke

0:48:57.200 --> 0:49:00.120
<v Speaker 1>and then living your life and then all all of

0:49:00.160 --> 0:49:02.480
<v Speaker 1>a sudden you find yourself at the center of that,

0:49:03.160 --> 0:49:06.200
<v Speaker 1>having reporters show up at your front door and just

0:49:06.840 --> 0:49:11.520
<v Speaker 1>continual attention and requests for interviews and stuff like that,

0:49:12.120 --> 0:49:15.560
<v Speaker 1>just think, well, I didn't really see this one coming.

0:49:17.040 --> 0:49:19.040
<v Speaker 1>So the rest of you happened in July. We already

0:49:19.040 --> 0:49:23.759
<v Speaker 1>had a trip to Canada organized for September October, so

0:49:24.080 --> 0:49:29.480
<v Speaker 1>we disappeared on that for a month or so, and

0:49:29.520 --> 0:49:31.680
<v Speaker 1>we thought, well, by the time we come back, we

0:49:31.719 --> 0:49:34.040
<v Speaker 1>will be forgotten about and all the fussle of died down.

0:49:34.080 --> 0:49:36.920
<v Speaker 1>We can just get back on with normal life. But

0:49:37.600 --> 0:49:40.239
<v Speaker 1>it turned out that it was not quite that way,

0:49:40.600 --> 0:49:43.319
<v Speaker 1>and it's just been going on ever since. I mean,

0:49:43.360 --> 0:49:47.520
<v Speaker 1>even six years later, there's still a hunger for this story.

0:49:47.640 --> 0:49:51.240
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's just a great story where everybody's a winner,

0:49:51.520 --> 0:49:56.279
<v Speaker 1>apart from Saman Gunan, who was the one Thai guy

0:49:56.360 --> 0:50:00.719
<v Speaker 1>that died diving in the cave. But apart from that,

0:50:00.880 --> 0:50:05.760
<v Speaker 1>it's just like a one hundred percent great story for everyone,

0:50:06.080 --> 0:50:08.719
<v Speaker 1>and everybody seems to have some angle. It doesn't matter

0:50:08.719 --> 0:50:12.760
<v Speaker 1>who you are, but if you're a kid or a parent,

0:50:13.320 --> 0:50:18.520
<v Speaker 1>or you're interested in rescue or emergency services, or there's

0:50:18.520 --> 0:50:22.480
<v Speaker 1>a medical aspect to it, or a diver or an adventurer,

0:50:22.960 --> 0:50:29.040
<v Speaker 1>everybody's got some point of connection with this story. And

0:50:29.080 --> 0:50:31.760
<v Speaker 1>you don't get that. I can't really think of another

0:50:31.840 --> 0:50:36.080
<v Speaker 1>example where everybody's got such a direct point of connection

0:50:36.200 --> 0:50:40.400
<v Speaker 1>to it. And it's just a fantastic outcome where really

0:50:41.600 --> 0:50:44.880
<v Speaker 1>victory is snatched from the jaws of defeat at the

0:50:44.960 --> 0:50:48.040
<v Speaker 1>last minute. So I guess it makes sense that people

0:50:48.080 --> 0:50:49.320
<v Speaker 1>are so okay on the story.

0:50:49.840 --> 0:50:52.640
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, I just yeah, I love it. Like I said,

0:50:52.680 --> 0:50:55.600
<v Speaker 2>it's like my favorite story ever. And if anyone I

0:50:55.640 --> 0:50:57.959
<v Speaker 2>come across hasn't heard of it, I insist on telling

0:50:57.960 --> 0:50:59.799
<v Speaker 2>them the entire thing because I think it is.

0:51:00.680 --> 0:51:00.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:51:01.040 --> 0:51:02.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there are so many bad news stories that

0:51:03.080 --> 0:51:05.880
<v Speaker 2>you continually hear, and yet you want these ones to

0:51:06.000 --> 0:51:09.680
<v Speaker 2>win in people's attention because it's an amazing Yeah, it's

0:51:09.680 --> 0:51:14.560
<v Speaker 2>an amazing story to tell. It's so uplifting, and yeah,

0:51:14.600 --> 0:51:16.560
<v Speaker 2>everyone does have a point of connection what they don't

0:51:16.600 --> 0:51:18.560
<v Speaker 2>all have a point of connection with is I think

0:51:18.640 --> 0:51:21.160
<v Speaker 2>even if you aren't interested in cave diving or rescue

0:51:21.280 --> 0:51:23.920
<v Speaker 2>or Thailand or anything, it's still a story that everyone

0:51:23.920 --> 0:51:26.960
<v Speaker 2>can find or in. But even if you aren't interested

0:51:27.000 --> 0:51:29.600
<v Speaker 2>in cave diving, I also think that finding out about

0:51:29.840 --> 0:51:33.200
<v Speaker 2>the niche community that it is is still fascinating because

0:51:33.280 --> 0:51:36.360
<v Speaker 2>before we finish off the tie rescue, but just diving

0:51:36.400 --> 0:51:39.160
<v Speaker 2>in general, Like I would love to know what's the

0:51:39.200 --> 0:51:42.719
<v Speaker 2>longest you've ever dived and what's the coolest place you've

0:51:42.719 --> 0:51:44.839
<v Speaker 2>been what's the place that you want to go in

0:51:44.840 --> 0:51:48.120
<v Speaker 2>your lifetime that no one else has gone? And specifically

0:51:48.239 --> 0:51:51.080
<v Speaker 2>because I'm all my brain ticks over logistics of stuff.

0:51:51.120 --> 0:51:53.680
<v Speaker 2>How do you go to the bathroom when you're doing

0:51:53.680 --> 0:51:54.719
<v Speaker 2>a sixteen hour dive?

0:51:55.320 --> 0:51:55.400
<v Speaker 1>Like?

0:51:55.480 --> 0:51:56.960
<v Speaker 3>How do you do because you don't reservice?

0:51:57.040 --> 0:51:57.319
<v Speaker 1>Right? Like?

0:51:57.360 --> 0:51:59.680
<v Speaker 3>How do you like, you know, talk us through it.

0:52:00.000 --> 0:52:04.920
<v Speaker 1>There's a lot of questions there as far as longest dives.

0:52:04.920 --> 0:52:06.480
<v Speaker 1>Depends which way you look on, So I'll give you

0:52:06.480 --> 0:52:11.560
<v Speaker 1>three different answers to that question. So the longest diving

0:52:11.719 --> 0:52:16.880
<v Speaker 1>time is just about just over seventeen hours. Longest dive

0:52:17.160 --> 0:52:20.279
<v Speaker 1>in distance is eleven.

0:52:19.960 --> 0:52:23.239
<v Speaker 3>Kilometers down or sideways or every.

0:52:23.000 --> 0:52:28.080
<v Speaker 1>Waste, yeah, alongside distance from the entrance and deepest dive

0:52:28.280 --> 0:52:31.279
<v Speaker 1>two hundred and eighty four meters So that site. That's

0:52:31.280 --> 0:52:34.200
<v Speaker 1>a site in South Africa that Harry and I dived

0:52:35.719 --> 0:52:40.919
<v Speaker 1>earlier this year and it was until a few years

0:52:40.960 --> 0:52:45.239
<v Speaker 1>ago the deepest cave dive in the world. But there's

0:52:45.239 --> 0:52:47.439
<v Speaker 1>a couple of deeper dives that have been done.

0:52:47.719 --> 0:52:50.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, wow, how do you eat? Do you get starving

0:52:50.920 --> 0:52:54.160
<v Speaker 2>over seventeen hours? And yeah, bathroom like what do you

0:52:54.200 --> 0:52:55.600
<v Speaker 2>do thirsty as well?

0:52:55.760 --> 0:52:57.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, if you're in fresh water, you can drink

0:52:57.680 --> 0:52:59.759
<v Speaker 1>the water, so that's not really a problem. But let's

0:52:59.760 --> 0:53:02.520
<v Speaker 1>see easier solution of all that. One don't even have

0:53:02.600 --> 0:53:04.440
<v Speaker 1>to take a drink with you. If you're in the

0:53:04.480 --> 0:53:06.640
<v Speaker 1>ocean or in salt water, then that's not the case

0:53:06.680 --> 0:53:08.600
<v Speaker 1>you but you can drink out of a drink bottle,

0:53:09.000 --> 0:53:13.279
<v Speaker 1>just like a squeezy bottle. That's no problem as far

0:53:13.320 --> 0:53:20.040
<v Speaker 1>as food goes. So sometimes we have habitats underwater, particularly

0:53:20.080 --> 0:53:24.480
<v Speaker 1>when it's really cold water, and so we just have

0:53:24.560 --> 0:53:27.640
<v Speaker 1>a little inverted bag basically that we'll fill up with air,

0:53:27.880 --> 0:53:30.080
<v Speaker 1>and you can climb up into that and sit there

0:53:30.120 --> 0:53:31.880
<v Speaker 1>and you can have a bit of a feed, so

0:53:32.640 --> 0:53:35.840
<v Speaker 1>your friends and support divers will bring you down something

0:53:35.880 --> 0:53:38.880
<v Speaker 1>to eat and drink in there. It's quite a pleasant

0:53:38.960 --> 0:53:43.000
<v Speaker 1>environment compared to actually being in the water. But at

0:53:43.040 --> 0:53:46.759
<v Speaker 1>other times, if you're doing all of the decompression in

0:53:46.800 --> 0:53:52.080
<v Speaker 1>the water, then you can still eat, particularly like something

0:53:52.160 --> 0:53:54.719
<v Speaker 1>like a chocolate bar or something like that. You just

0:53:54.920 --> 0:53:58.280
<v Speaker 1>have to make sure that you take small bites because

0:53:58.440 --> 0:54:00.160
<v Speaker 1>once you take a bite, you have to eat all

0:54:00.160 --> 0:54:02.400
<v Speaker 1>of that and swallow it before you can take another breath,

0:54:02.440 --> 0:54:06.360
<v Speaker 1>and you don't Oh yeah, that's the track for young players.

0:54:07.160 --> 0:54:11.439
<v Speaker 1>We all learn when we first start, but get used

0:54:11.440 --> 0:54:14.000
<v Speaker 1>to that. As far as going to the toilet, so

0:54:14.480 --> 0:54:17.000
<v Speaker 1>number one is not really any problem or particularly for

0:54:17.080 --> 0:54:22.400
<v Speaker 1>boys anyway. Just a bit of plumbing, a little raincoat

0:54:22.440 --> 0:54:24.480
<v Speaker 1>on the old fellow with a tube coming out at

0:54:24.480 --> 0:54:31.839
<v Speaker 1>the end and that's easily achieved. But yeah, number two

0:54:31.840 --> 0:54:35.879
<v Speaker 1>has just got to plan ahead and wow, time bit

0:54:35.880 --> 0:54:37.400
<v Speaker 1>of a bit of a low fiber diet for a

0:54:37.480 --> 0:54:40.239
<v Speaker 1>day or two events is advisable.

0:54:39.960 --> 0:54:42.719
<v Speaker 2>Right, Okay, so you actually do have to like, yeah,

0:54:42.800 --> 0:54:45.479
<v Speaker 2>do your prayers like the reverse card loading that people

0:54:45.560 --> 0:54:46.720
<v Speaker 2>don't marathons and stuff.

0:54:48.360 --> 0:54:50.160
<v Speaker 1>That's okay, We've been doing all this stuff for a

0:54:50.200 --> 0:54:52.040
<v Speaker 1>long time. We're aware of all the issues.

0:54:54.239 --> 0:54:56.120
<v Speaker 3>And is there a dive that you have yet?

0:54:56.120 --> 0:54:57.840
<v Speaker 2>Do you have like kind of a list of dives

0:54:57.840 --> 0:55:00.239
<v Speaker 2>in your lifetime that you want to conquer and is

0:55:00.280 --> 0:55:03.000
<v Speaker 2>there one that you're just like can't not have done

0:55:03.560 --> 0:55:05.160
<v Speaker 2>or is there one that you're planning to do?

0:55:05.760 --> 0:55:09.239
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's not really like that because it's exploration is

0:55:09.280 --> 0:55:11.719
<v Speaker 1>really the name of the game. So the dives you

0:55:11.760 --> 0:55:15.000
<v Speaker 1>want to do are the ones that haven't been done yet. Ah,

0:55:16.120 --> 0:55:20.160
<v Speaker 1>So always looking really, but I've got a few projects

0:55:20.200 --> 0:55:23.799
<v Speaker 1>on the go, and so this year I've been to

0:55:24.960 --> 0:55:29.080
<v Speaker 1>China and there is so much to do up there

0:55:29.520 --> 0:55:33.759
<v Speaker 1>and it's virtually untouched. Really, there are lifetimes of exploration.

0:55:34.440 --> 0:55:36.520
<v Speaker 1>So I've hooked up with a few of the Chinese

0:55:36.560 --> 0:55:40.640
<v Speaker 1>divers up there and looking forward to going back there.

0:55:40.760 --> 0:55:45.400
<v Speaker 1>There's lots to do. Spain is another big place. I'm

0:55:45.480 --> 0:55:49.320
<v Speaker 1>involved in a project over there that's the longest cave

0:55:49.400 --> 0:55:53.960
<v Speaker 1>divers in furthest distance from the entrance. So I was

0:55:54.040 --> 0:55:58.160
<v Speaker 1>there with Jason Mallinson, another one of the divers from

0:55:58.560 --> 0:56:02.800
<v Speaker 1>the Cave Rescue, and going back there next year again

0:56:02.840 --> 0:56:07.440
<v Speaker 1>in August and September, so hopefully extend that one as well.

0:56:08.480 --> 0:56:12.239
<v Speaker 1>I mean, probably my career defining dive has been this

0:56:12.320 --> 0:56:14.680
<v Speaker 1>cave in New Zealand that we've been going to called

0:56:14.680 --> 0:56:21.120
<v Speaker 1>the Pierce Resurgence, and that's been going there for so

0:56:21.160 --> 0:56:23.200
<v Speaker 1>Harry first went there in two thousand and seven. I

0:56:23.239 --> 0:56:25.799
<v Speaker 1>came along a little bit later twenty ten, but I've

0:56:25.840 --> 0:56:31.800
<v Speaker 1>been on eight expeditions there now and keeps getting deeper

0:56:31.880 --> 0:56:35.080
<v Speaker 1>and going further and that's really cold water too, just

0:56:35.120 --> 0:56:39.919
<v Speaker 1>to make it even more unpleasant. So just organizing now

0:56:39.960 --> 0:56:44.080
<v Speaker 1>for another trip up there, going there in February and

0:56:44.880 --> 0:56:47.040
<v Speaker 1>getting ready to lay a bit more light.

0:56:47.880 --> 0:56:51.480
<v Speaker 2>Amazing. Oh well, that's so exciting. I just yeah, I

0:56:51.520 --> 0:56:53.720
<v Speaker 2>can't even imagine. I mean, like, I hate being cold

0:56:53.880 --> 0:56:57.440
<v Speaker 2>and don't love being well like I love Yeah, I

0:56:57.480 --> 0:56:59.319
<v Speaker 2>just can't imagine it. But I love how much you

0:56:59.400 --> 0:57:02.200
<v Speaker 2>love doing it, and I hope that February's dive goes

0:57:02.239 --> 0:57:04.960
<v Speaker 2>really well. I'm so so grateful for your time. And

0:57:05.000 --> 0:57:07.720
<v Speaker 2>I know you've probably rehashed this story a million times,

0:57:07.719 --> 0:57:09.279
<v Speaker 2>but I don't think it will ever get old.

0:57:09.360 --> 0:57:12.120
<v Speaker 3>It is just such a good one and spark so

0:57:12.200 --> 0:57:12.800
<v Speaker 3>much joy.

0:57:13.160 --> 0:57:15.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, there's still plenty more dives to do, so

0:57:16.040 --> 0:57:21.280
<v Speaker 1>if anybody listening is Keane, I really recommend it to you.

0:57:21.720 --> 0:57:24.840
<v Speaker 1>There's stuff out there. There's still so much exploration to do,

0:57:25.160 --> 0:57:29.320
<v Speaker 1>and just go out get yourself the training first, listen

0:57:29.360 --> 0:57:32.680
<v Speaker 1>to me on that one. Yeah, then get into it.

0:57:32.720 --> 0:57:34.400
<v Speaker 1>There's a lot of excitement to be had.

0:57:34.960 --> 0:57:37.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, I really do hope that across these two episodes

0:57:37.840 --> 0:57:41.000
<v Speaker 2>there is an aspiring cave diver out there who might

0:57:41.040 --> 0:57:44.000
<v Speaker 2>not have otherwise done it, but who now that they

0:57:44.040 --> 0:57:46.440
<v Speaker 2>know that there is so there are so many things

0:57:46.480 --> 0:57:48.000
<v Speaker 2>that you can do and that you can make a

0:57:48.000 --> 0:57:49.680
<v Speaker 2>twenty seven year career out of it if you want

0:57:49.720 --> 0:57:52.520
<v Speaker 2>to and going and counting, and you can do it,

0:57:52.640 --> 0:57:54.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, all over the world. I hope that there

0:57:54.480 --> 0:57:57.400
<v Speaker 2>is at least one who's been listening who chooses to

0:57:57.400 --> 0:57:58.880
<v Speaker 2>continue pursuing it because.

0:57:58.680 --> 0:57:59.480
<v Speaker 3>Of you, guys.

0:58:00.000 --> 0:58:00.720
<v Speaker 1>I hope so too.

0:58:02.520 --> 0:58:05.040
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much, Craig. It's been an absolute pleasure.

0:58:05.120 --> 0:58:06.720
<v Speaker 2>For those who haven't read the book. I'll make sure

0:58:06.760 --> 0:58:09.440
<v Speaker 2>to include Aleek in the show notes because still one

0:58:09.440 --> 0:58:11.840
<v Speaker 2>of my favorite books ever. There's much more detail if

0:58:11.840 --> 0:58:14.200
<v Speaker 2>you've enjoyed the detail we're listening to that you've listened

0:58:14.200 --> 0:58:16.720
<v Speaker 2>to in this and thank you so much for joining it.

0:58:16.880 --> 0:58:18.960
<v Speaker 1>Was really enjoyed it. Thanks Sarah.

0:58:19.000 --> 0:58:21.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness. I mean I've already read their book

0:58:21.000 --> 0:58:23.480
<v Speaker 2>against all odds many times. I've watched the documentaries, I've

0:58:23.480 --> 0:58:25.840
<v Speaker 2>watched the movies, but I'm never any less blown away.

0:58:26.080 --> 0:58:27.520
<v Speaker 3>What an incredible feat.

0:58:27.560 --> 0:58:29.560
<v Speaker 2>I wish I could have kept chatting for hours or

0:58:29.960 --> 0:58:32.680
<v Speaker 2>crawled into Craig's brain to understand more. It really makes

0:58:32.720 --> 0:58:35.240
<v Speaker 2>me so enthusiastic about humanity, and I hope you guys

0:58:35.240 --> 0:58:38.760
<v Speaker 2>found some inspiration too. If you enjoyed, please do share

0:58:38.800 --> 0:58:41.360
<v Speaker 2>the episode on socials or take a minute to leave

0:58:41.400 --> 0:58:43.800
<v Speaker 2>us a review. I always forget to ask. I mean,

0:58:43.840 --> 0:58:46.000
<v Speaker 2>in seven years, we've only amassed I think less than

0:58:46.000 --> 0:58:48.480
<v Speaker 2>a thousand, and that's because I'm so bad at asking.

0:58:48.520 --> 0:58:50.760
<v Speaker 2>But it really does mean so much to keep growing

0:58:50.800 --> 0:58:52.640
<v Speaker 2>the neighborhood, even now in what.

0:58:52.680 --> 0:58:55.560
<v Speaker 3>Is our eighth year, which blows me away. It means

0:58:55.600 --> 0:58:56.920
<v Speaker 3>a lot to keep us going.

0:58:57.200 --> 0:59:00.240
<v Speaker 2>So if you haven't subscribed or left a review, I'd

0:59:00.280 --> 0:59:02.600
<v Speaker 2>so appreciate you taking the time. And in the meantime,

0:59:02.680 --> 0:59:04.880
<v Speaker 2>I hope your February is off to a great start

0:59:04.960 --> 0:59:06.560
<v Speaker 2>and you're seizing your yay