Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by PayPal Small Business
Speaker 1: boot Camp series.
Speaker 2: But if your end result oriented, you will get there
Speaker 2: and you just keep on chipping away. That's honestly my
Speaker 2: secret source. Having that empathy and understanding their position and
Speaker 2: understanding where they're coming from. That then allows you to
Speaker 2: then go okay. These are the reasons why they feel
Speaker 2: like they need to say no. I'm going to reduce
Speaker 2: those barriers and then allow them to say yes because
Speaker 2: they want to say yes.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Seas the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy
Speaker 1: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what
Speaker 1: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but
Speaker 1: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than
Speaker 1: one way. So this is a platform to hear and
Speaker 1: explore the stories of those who found lives.
Speaker 2: They adore, the.
Speaker 1: Good, bad and ugly. The best and worst day will
Speaker 1: bear all the facets of seizing your yay. I'm Sarah
Speaker 1: Davidson or Spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned fu entrepreneur
Speaker 1: who swapped the suits and heels to co found Match
Speaker 1: a Maiden and Match Milk Bark Cza is a series
Speaker 1: of conversations on finding a life you love, and exploring
Speaker 1: the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way.
Speaker 1: If you've been listening along for a while, you'll probably
Speaker 1: know me well enough to notice when I get totally
Speaker 1: carried away in someone's story and suddenly we're fifty minutes
Speaker 1: in and I'm still on their way to you. It's
Speaker 1: generally because our guest has such a densely interesting story
Speaker 1: that we could do a whole podcast on every theme
Speaker 1: that we talk about, which I definitely felt for today's
Speaker 1: fabulous guest, and even still, I feel like there are
Speaker 1: so many things I could have asked but didn't get to.
Speaker 1: Despite hilariously never having met in person, Kim van Hauster
Speaker 1: has become my work wife in law since Nick joined
Speaker 1: the founding team of her incredible clean beauty startup, Bloom Effects,
Speaker 1: and she's also become someone I admire immensely. I posted
Speaker 1: a video recently sharing some of the headlines of her
Speaker 1: story and loved fleshing out all of the chapters in between.
Speaker 1: Kim is such a great reminder of one of our
Speaker 1: favorite themes here that life doesn't always work out how
Speaker 1: you planned, but it often works out better, and that
Speaker 1: finding your dream life takes lots of patience, trust, and
Speaker 1: chipping away from ten different primary schools and even more
Speaker 1: random jobs earlier in her career, including as a mattress saleswoman.
Speaker 1: Pure grit and hard work led Kim from Frankston to
Speaker 1: become a hugely successful corporate in New York City, becoming
Speaker 1: head of marketing for personal healthcare giant p Z Cousins.
Speaker 1: Kim was also the brains behind the incredible growth of
Speaker 1: world renowned brand Or now world renowned thanks to Kim
Speaker 1: Saint Trope, responsible for doubling the space it took up
Speaker 1: on the floors at Alta and winning Brand of the
Speaker 1: Year in twenty seventeen for all intents and purposes. Living
Speaker 1: a sex in the city as dream life so early
Speaker 1: in her thirties, and yet she walked away from it
Speaker 1: all when she met a Dutch tulip farmer on the
Speaker 1: dance floor in Ibetha and moved to Amsterdam to start
Speaker 1: a family. I thought I already knew all the details
Speaker 1: of Kim then ventured into entrepreneurship by founding Bloom Effects,
Speaker 1: but I didn't actually know the half of it. This
Speaker 1: episode felt like reading a captivating novel while also teaching
Speaker 1: me so much about the tulip farming industry, business in
Speaker 1: Australia versus the US, versus the Netherlands, the many uses
Speaker 1: for sawdust. You know, I love diving into a niche community,
Speaker 1: but also squeezing in lesser disgusted but equal important themes
Speaker 1: like divorce, miscarriage, refinding your identity and creating change in
Speaker 1: a patriarchal industry. Kim is endlessly interesting and I hope
Speaker 1: you enjoy this one as much as I did. Kim.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Ceza.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Sarah, so glad to be here.
Speaker 1: It is so lovely to see your face, and even
Speaker 1: more amazing that we're doing this between Australia and the Netherlands.
Speaker 1: Technology is amazing.
Speaker 2: Ten thirty am for me, and what time is it
Speaker 2: for you in Melbourne?
Speaker 1: Six thirty pm here, so basically my bedtime as a
Speaker 1: grammar I know, so weird. That's the future. Well, I'd
Speaker 1: love to have some exciting news for you, but we're
Speaker 1: in lockdown, so the future is not that interesting. I'm
Speaker 1: so excited to have you here today. As you know,
Speaker 1: we kick off every episode by asking what the most
Speaker 1: down to earth thing is about you to break through
Speaker 1: that surface level identity that's often quite glossy see through
Speaker 1: the media or social media. And with all the amazing
Speaker 1: titles you've had and accolades to your name, as well
Speaker 1: as being a big TV star from House Hunters, what
Speaker 1: is something relatable about you break the ice.
Speaker 2: I think it's my family. I am such a slob.
Speaker 2: I go into kid mode as soon as I grew
Speaker 2: up in the morning to Peninsula and when I'm home,
Speaker 2: all I do is get into my PJS. I don't
Speaker 2: leave my PJS. I sit on the couch and I
Speaker 2: just expect to be fed and I want far and
Speaker 2: all the delicious Vietnamese food that my mum cooks twenty
Speaker 2: four to seven.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's so low. This is my Mum's are the best, right.
Speaker 1: I feel like you never actually grow up. Every time
Speaker 1: you see them again, it's like, just treat me like
Speaker 1: a child. Look up.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Which is tough because I'm on the other side
Speaker 2: of the world and it's really hard to get in
Speaker 2: Australia right now. I don't know if you've heard.
Speaker 1: I think I might have heard a thing or two
Speaker 1: about that. And we can't get out of Australia either.
Speaker 1: As you guys will hear Nick and Kim have been
Speaker 1: working together for how long has it been? Now like
Speaker 1: two years?
Speaker 2: I think it just over two years. Yeah, we're coming
Speaker 2: up to two years of Bloom Effects, but Nick was
Speaker 2: one of the founding members. So yeah, it's been a journey.
Speaker 1: And almost that whole time now, we've been trying to
Speaker 1: see each other, or you and I have been trying
Speaker 1: to meet each other in person, and we're still waiting.
Speaker 2: And the crazy thing is is I feel like I
Speaker 2: know you, but we've actually never met in real life.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I know it's so crazy, but we're
Speaker 1: like best friends. And I feel like I hear you
Speaker 1: on the phone on the other end of the phone
Speaker 1: to Nick more than I hear any other voice. And
Speaker 1: I know your daughter and I've seen her pooh and vomit,
Speaker 1: and we know everything about each other exactly.
Speaker 2: And Ange and Nick are so much a part of
Speaker 2: my life and your life. So yeah, one be happy
Speaker 2: family across the world.
Speaker 1: I know, isn't that. So that's one of the things
Speaker 1: I think about all the time that even though it's
Speaker 1: been I've been wearing like our sixth lockdown, it's been
Speaker 1: a really tough time but if all the things to
Speaker 1: be grateful for, it's that if there was always going
Speaker 1: to be a pandemic and we were always going to
Speaker 1: have to experience lockdown, imagine trying to do this before
Speaker 1: the Internet. Like, I just can't fathom the fact that
Speaker 1: we can actually see faces and see our families. You know,
Speaker 1: it's just bananas.
Speaker 2: Keeps me saying I wouldn't be able to run my
Speaker 2: business and do my job and see my family. It's
Speaker 2: been pretty incredible that, you know, we've transitioned to zoom
Speaker 2: and calls, but I'm not zoom ready ever.
Speaker 1: This is a special occasion. We put makeup on for
Speaker 1: each other. I'm like, oh, we're both looking quite nice.
Speaker 2: Exactly, I've got a dewy glow, especially glow.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that dewey glow. Speaking of bloom Effects,
Speaker 1: the first section is your way toa where we go
Speaker 1: through all of the chapters that came before that to
Speaker 1: help you get here, because I think often people walk
Speaker 1: into your life at the bloom Effects chapter and think
Speaker 1: that it all makes sense that you were going to
Speaker 1: end up as a beauty founder and CEO, and that
Speaker 1: you always knew you were going to get there. But
Speaker 1: there are so many dart points along the way that
Speaker 1: don't make sense, and so many times I'm sure. I mean,
Speaker 1: you've moved roles, so many times, you've moved countries, and
Speaker 1: I love going through all of those to trace through
Speaker 1: the decisions and remind everyone that it's you know, the
Speaker 1: path to joy is not linear. So take us all
Speaker 1: the way back to very young Kim, what were you
Speaker 1: like as a kid growing up in Melbourne with a
Speaker 1: Vietnamese family. I believe there's even a shop named after
Speaker 1: your Vietnamese name in Richmond.
Speaker 2: Se Richmond or Victoria Street. Kim Hun. Yeah, so Kim's
Speaker 2: actually my I guess my middle name, and Han is
Speaker 2: my first name, but we switch depending on what language
Speaker 2: we're speaking. So me, as a kid, I was actually
Speaker 2: really shy and I didn't speak until I was full.
Speaker 1: Really.
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyone that knows me now knows that I'm a chatterbox,
Speaker 2: and it's certainly made up for it.
Speaker 1: But I was going to.
Speaker 2: And I'm certainly an I would describe myself as an
Speaker 2: extrovert now. But yeah, as a kid, I was really
Speaker 2: quiet and shy and stuck to my mum like glue
Speaker 2: and didn't speak at all. Mum actually thought that I
Speaker 2: was maybe deaf or had a speech disorder or something
Speaker 2: like that. So it was just you know, confused with
Speaker 2: the languages, and yeah, I just kind of was a
Speaker 2: slow developer. Yes, And I wasn't that good at school either.
Speaker 2: You know, I tried my best, but for and the
Speaker 2: stereotypical Asian family would would say, you know, eat pluses
Speaker 2: all the way, and I was like an average student.
Speaker 2: I think I was a B plus student. As I
Speaker 2: went through high school, I realized that if I tried
Speaker 2: really hard and I applied myself, I would get further.
Speaker 2: So I you know, I did try to get the
Speaker 2: distinctions and the high distinctions, but it was a lot
Speaker 2: of effort. Didn't come naturally to me, and I was
Speaker 2: I realized that I was slightly dyslexic as well, so
Speaker 2: you know, there was all these things kind of thrown
Speaker 2: at me, but I strived through it. And the reason
Speaker 2: why I think I did was because I always knew
Speaker 2: that I wanted to own my own business and make
Speaker 2: my mark as a business woman. That was super important
Speaker 2: to me. It was kind of grilled into me at
Speaker 2: a very young stage that Kim, you needn't rely on
Speaker 2: anyone else. You've been given the opportunity to free education,
Speaker 2: free healthcare, you know, a roof over your head, kneel
Speaker 2: on the table every night, and those things. Don't take
Speaker 2: them for granted because not everyone in the world has
Speaker 2: those opportunities, and really strive to do what you can
Speaker 2: and make the most out of, you know, the opportunities
Speaker 2: you've been given. My mum was a refugee from Vietnam
Speaker 2: as a lot of buzzie Vietnamese h and you know,
Speaker 2: she wasn't given those opportunities. So I think it's important
Speaker 2: that I was able to rise to the occasion and
Speaker 2: make the most of everything that she worked so hard
Speaker 2: to pro And yeah, so I think that grit was
Speaker 2: really what took me through high school and university. But again,
Speaker 2: coming out of university, I didn't have the best grades.
Speaker 2: I was like a credit or a distinction, but not
Speaker 2: a high distinction, not like the typical kids that get
Speaker 2: into those grad programs. And I think there's one or
Speaker 2: two at Laurel and one or two at am Z
Speaker 2: going up in Melbourne, and I didn't get any of those.
Speaker 2: So I thought, what am I good at? And at
Speaker 2: the time I knew that I was good at selling
Speaker 2: because I was, you know, a promotional guest at this
Speaker 2: like a nightclub called Century twenty one.
Speaker 1: That's how you just got with your selling skills.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then Voodoo Lounge, which is across the street
Speaker 2: in Frankston.
Speaker 1: I was the Preston girl. Oh my gosh, amazing.
Speaker 2: I went to Priston High and then I worked at
Speaker 2: Davies as well, and I worked at Rugantino's, which was
Speaker 2: the low called pizza restaurant. And then I would change
Speaker 2: at the back room and then run over to the
Speaker 2: jewelry store and work at Bebl's Jewelers. And then I
Speaker 2: changed in the back room there, and then I ran
Speaker 2: over to the Good Guys and I was in the
Speaker 2: plasma screens section.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, so random.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I had the gift of the gap and
Speaker 2: I knew that I could sell. So I thought, Okay, well,
Speaker 2: if I can't get the like Cadet ships that everyone
Speaker 2: else is getting because of the high grades, I'm going
Speaker 2: to I'm going to get a role where I can sell.
Speaker 2: And so I ended up selling the least sexiest product
Speaker 2: on Earth, seally posturepedic mattresses. That was my first job
Speaker 2: yeahstupedic sales, and I managed forty winks and Captain's news
Speaker 2: accounts and my job was to go into stores and
Speaker 2: talk about foam and springs.
Speaker 1: Wow, oh my gosh. See even to this point, and
Speaker 1: this is like top point one of one hundred in
Speaker 1: your career that is still, you know, in its early years.
Speaker 1: It's it's crazy to think that hearing about everything that's
Speaker 1: happened since then, people would assume that you had a
Speaker 1: really easy time at school. They would assume that you
Speaker 1: were really high achiever academically, and they you know, it's
Speaker 1: so easy to make assumptions about the journey that people
Speaker 1: have had and then to be discouraged because you think, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm not as smart as her, or I don't have
Speaker 1: the academic grades, or I don't have this, or I
Speaker 1: don't have that. And so this is the bit that
Speaker 1: I love. It's breaking down that you did have ten
Speaker 1: random jobs that were your part time jobs before you
Speaker 1: got your full time job, and then your first full
Speaker 1: time job was like totally random and in mattresses before
Speaker 1: beauty was even on the horizon. And the way that
Speaker 1: you discovered your gift for selling was nightclubs, Like I
Speaker 1: think it's just the randomness of the way that things
Speaker 1: come together gets lost in a lot of storytelling. But
Speaker 1: actually that's the way that it becomes beautiful. That's the
Speaker 1: way that people figure out who they are is all
Speaker 1: the random bits exactly.
Speaker 2: And I think you have to really dig deep as
Speaker 2: well and realize that your single minded path, or for me,
Speaker 2: a single minded journey in terms of my career, everything
Speaker 2: would to that add color, add texture, at experience and
Speaker 2: at those moments where you're standing there in a forty
Speaker 2: wings going why am I selling springs and mattresses, you
Speaker 2: remind yourself, I'm learning life long skills at this point
Speaker 2: that I can use and learn from and grow from.
Speaker 2: And I and honestly, right now, if I think back to,
Speaker 2: you know, those moments and I'm talking to either Bloomingdale's
Speaker 2: or SAS and it's a really prestigious department store, and
Speaker 2: you know, someone might be saying, Okay, we're having a
Speaker 2: really difficult month because of COVID or you know, foot
Speaker 2: traffic's not what it should be and I can't get people,
Speaker 2: you know, trying the products. I just think back to, well,
Speaker 2: if I can sell springs and mattresses and phone in
Speaker 2: a forty wings we can sell this product. We can
Speaker 2: really you know, there's the features and the benefits and
Speaker 2: the whole story behind it. If we can make mattresses sexy,
Speaker 2: we can make products sexy, our products sexy. And it
Speaker 2: just rounds you, it just humbles you. So I still
Speaker 2: those skills as a sales rep to this day.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. And also I think it's particularly I mean
Speaker 1: in all situations, but especially in certain immigrant background families
Speaker 1: where security of job and academics are really highly valued.
Speaker 1: It's I can imagine, really difficult when your particular kind
Speaker 1: of intellect isn't the one that's coveted by everyone. Like
Speaker 1: if you're not super super academic, it could be really
Speaker 1: easy for people to think they're not smart at all,
Speaker 1: just because they don't get really good grades. But the
Speaker 1: ability to sell, the ability to negotiate, the ability to
Speaker 1: run a business, which you've obviously become brilliant at, it
Speaker 1: uses a totally different kind of the brain that sometimes
Speaker 1: I feel so many children out there in their journeys
Speaker 1: it's not I mean, I'm excited that it's getting more appreciated,
Speaker 1: but there's not only one type of intelligence. And I
Speaker 1: think it's taken me a really long time to understand that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I completely agree. I actually watched a Ted talk
Speaker 2: once about grit and it really resonated with me, and
Speaker 2: I realized that that's what has taken me through my
Speaker 2: career and my journey and actually, like life obstacles as well,
Speaker 2: being single minded in your success or whatever that vision is.
Speaker 2: And I wasn't the kid that had the vision board,
Speaker 2: but I had a mental pinterest in my mind of
Speaker 2: what my life was going to be and I've always
Speaker 2: drived to it, and every kind of pivot or set back,
Speaker 2: I would remind myself, well, this is the ultimate goal
Speaker 2: and this is the picture of success for me, and
Speaker 2: how can I use this experience to get me further
Speaker 2: along the track? And I think that has made me
Speaker 2: more successful. It's the stamina and grit. It's not the intelligence,
Speaker 2: it's not who you know. It's not being academically successful.
Speaker 2: It's really sticking at something and just chipping away in it.
Speaker 2: And it's grueling. But a lot of people, like I know,
Speaker 2: super intelligent people, but they give our pathway through and
Speaker 2: they never get to the end result. And it's like,
Speaker 2: well they're so smart or they've got ducts of the
Speaker 2: U year or you know, they've finished top of their class,
Speaker 2: but they didn't have the grit and the stamina to
Speaker 2: just chip chip, chip away. And I think that's what
Speaker 2: I'm good at. And I've only realized that that's called grit.
Speaker 2: So I guess maybe I'm gritty and that's what's been
Speaker 2: my secret source to success.
Speaker 1: Oh that's amazing. And I think like more labels. I
Speaker 1: mean not in all cases do I support labeling things,
Speaker 1: But I think labeling a kind of intelligence like that
Speaker 1: is so good because for other people listening who have
Speaker 1: never understood their kind of intelligence to be able to
Speaker 1: identify and relate and go, yes, I'm gritty. That's my
Speaker 1: form of strength. You know, it helps other people identify
Speaker 1: what their strengths are that might not look the same
Speaker 1: as someone else's. So where did you go then? From
Speaker 1: the mattresses and that chapter of your life? Which is
Speaker 1: so cool?
Speaker 2: Always funnily enough, I know it sounds cliche. I always
Speaker 2: wanted to work in beauty. I struggled with really severe
Speaker 2: eggs more all my life, and I felt that I
Speaker 2: always was spoken to as a patient. And they call
Speaker 2: it the white coat endorsement. When you buy products in
Speaker 2: a pharmacy, and anything that comes in a white bottle
Speaker 2: is perceived to be like dermatologically tested or approved by
Speaker 2: doctors and therefore more medicinal. And because you have like
Speaker 2: eggmodrm titis riis whatever. For me, it's eggma. You get
Speaker 2: spoken to it by brands as a patient. And I
Speaker 2: just wanted to be spoken to as a human being.
Speaker 2: And I just wanted to feel like, you know, a
Speaker 2: beautiful female. I didn't want to feel sick because I
Speaker 2: wasn't sick. I'm not sick. I just have this condition
Speaker 2: that I have to live with and maintain and stay
Speaker 2: on top of. And so for me, it was always like,
Speaker 2: one day, I'm going to have my own brand. And
Speaker 2: I truly, even at fourteen, wanted that. My mum worked
Speaker 2: in the GD three section of g or Counter and
Speaker 2: she had amazing makeup regimens, she had amazing skincare regimens.
Speaker 2: She sold mary Kay, she did avon like. So I
Speaker 2: grew up just loving and appreciating find like makeup and cosmetics,
Speaker 2: but I couldn't use a lot of them because of
Speaker 2: my skin condition. And she would always say, oh, be
Speaker 2: careful with that. I don't you know you might come
Speaker 2: out in a rash. So growing up. I then went
Speaker 2: into pharmaceuticals and again like focused on what I do
Speaker 2: best selling. I worked at Chadston Shopping Center, actually at
Speaker 2: in center Management, and I was the retail coordinator there. Yes,
Speaker 2: and then I worked at Park More Shopping Center. I've
Speaker 2: been around I've been around Melbourne for those Melbourne listeners. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then yeah. I eventually got into pharmaceuticals where I
Speaker 2: felt like this is my calling. I love brand management
Speaker 2: and I worked on an old fashion brand called Alpha
Speaker 2: Kerri and it spoke to EGGZMA sufferers. And then from
Speaker 2: there I was like, Okay, I really want to take
Speaker 2: my career to the next level. And so myself and
Speaker 2: my ex we actually decided to move to New York
Speaker 2: for career purposes. And once we got to New York,
Speaker 2: I was like, this is my moment. I've watched Gossip Girl,
Speaker 2: I've watched Sex in the City, this is real life
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 1: I'm ready, I'm going to.
Speaker 2: Make this happen. So I don't know what character that
Speaker 2: I wanted to assimilate, and I think it was a
Speaker 2: combination of all of them, all of the above, but
Speaker 2: I certainly did go to the boom boom room. First thing,
Speaker 2: first thing I did when I went to New York.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean it'd be rude not to. That's the
Speaker 1: first thing.
Speaker 2: Lead. Yeah, And then once I settled down and realized, hey,
Speaker 2: I need to focus on my career, I got a
Speaker 2: job at this place called TPR Holdings, And at that
Speaker 2: moment that's where I really thought, Okay, this is my
Speaker 2: moment to shine. I came into the company using my
Speaker 2: pharmaceutical background, and I said, Okay, I can manage the
Speaker 2: oral care division. But I knew that they had a
Speaker 2: portfolio of skin care and color cosmetic brands that I
Speaker 2: wanted to get into. They were like, Kim, you're an Australian.
Speaker 2: You haven't got any American experience, you don't know the
Speaker 2: American marketplace, and you haven't got an Ivy League degree.
Speaker 2: So again, there were all these challenges and barriers and
Speaker 2: I didn't fit in. I was a square peg trying
Speaker 2: to fit into a round hole. But for me, I
Speaker 2: just negotiated. I said to the owner of the business, Hey,
Speaker 2: give me six months. I'm going to cut my salary
Speaker 2: down to twenty five percent of what I was earning,
Speaker 2: showed him my latest pace slip from Australia and that's
Speaker 2: not even I mean, obviously the Aussie dollar to the
Speaker 2: US ella, taking into the foreign exchange difference, I was
Speaker 2: still cutting down to twenty five percent of my salary.
Speaker 2: Showed him my payslip to prove it, and I said,
Speaker 2: I will be the most junior person on your team.
Speaker 2: I'll work for this amount and give me six months
Speaker 2: and I'll be running the whole marketing division. And then
Speaker 2: lo and behold. Six months. Yeahs later I went from
Speaker 2: like marketing associate or marketing coordinator or something like that,
Speaker 2: and then six months later I was senior global senior
Speaker 2: marketing director running all divisions and marketing and product development
Speaker 2: for him. So it was a pretty amazing opportunity. And
Speaker 2: it was a little bit faker to you make it
Speaker 2: like I was negotiating hard in that room, and I'm
Speaker 2: very much about earning my stripes, but Americans a little
Speaker 2: bit different in the way they work and culturally you
Speaker 2: have to come in with confidence, you have to negotiate,
Speaker 2: and I did that, and so I felt like it
Speaker 2: was an episode of Shark TENK. I don't know if
Speaker 2: you watch that show, but I felt like I was
Speaker 2: pitching for my life in that room, but he gave
Speaker 2: me a shot, and I'm really grateful because I learned
Speaker 2: how to run a business. That company was in the
Speaker 2: business of flipping businesses. So just like you flip apartments,
Speaker 2: so you buy a rundown apartment, like fix it up
Speaker 2: and then put it on the market again and sell
Speaker 2: it and they make a profit. That's exactly what they did,
Speaker 2: but with brands, and so it was a revolving door
Speaker 2: of all of these distress brands where and my role
Speaker 2: was to sprinkle like marketing faery dust on them, basically
Speaker 2: turn them around in six months and then get them
Speaker 2: back to sellable condition. And it meant that it was
Speaker 2: high pressure, but I was working across all different categories
Speaker 2: and it was a grueling experience. But I learned there
Speaker 2: how to be extra gritty within the beauty industry. I
Speaker 2: built my Rollerdex up. There was a lot of respect
Speaker 2: for me because I was working so hard and got
Speaker 2: a lot of results. So I think there was that
Speaker 2: was my university into the beauty industry. And then I
Speaker 2: moved into a corporate role at Santrapez. So I know
Speaker 2: you like a good tan and I was familiar with
Speaker 2: the brand actually because my dad in Australia worked for
Speaker 2: the company for a very long time, and nepotism aside,
Speaker 2: he actually put me up for the role. He's like, oh,
Speaker 2: I know someone in New York that can run their
Speaker 2: American division and work through the processes and got the job.
Speaker 2: So thanks Dad, who actually still works in Bloom Effects
Speaker 2: by the way. So yeah, we've been colleagues for a
Speaker 2: long time now, which is really strange.
Speaker 1: So good.
Speaker 2: I mean, Nick loves my dad.
Speaker 1: They're besties. Like literally half the time. I'm like, get
Speaker 1: off the freaking phone. He's like, it's John.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, okay, fine, sorry, I forgot your bromance
Speaker 1: over there.
Speaker 2: You know, they talk about buddings most of the time,
Speaker 2: and retaining walls.
Speaker 1: All the time. All the retaining walls particularly like that.
Speaker 1: It's a really hot topic right now, structural stability. It's
Speaker 1: just alarming. It's never about their actual work together. It's
Speaker 1: always about something different. But you know, like something I
Speaker 1: love about you and I already knew this, but this
Speaker 1: has really highlighted it is that you said it was
Speaker 1: a really great opportunity and that your boss at the
Speaker 1: first job really took a chance on you, but you
Speaker 1: created that opportunity. A lot of people would have taken,
Speaker 1: you know, the barriers as a no and either self
Speaker 1: selected themselves out of that before even applying, or just
Speaker 1: not suggested a way around it. Like I think there's
Speaker 1: something to be said. And this is why you and
Speaker 1: Nick I think work really well together is you both
Speaker 1: think very laterally. You don't look at a problem, see
Speaker 1: that two obvious solutions and go, oh, well they don't work,
Speaker 1: so that's a no. You'll create like eight more solutions
Speaker 1: that just look a little bit different. So I don't
Speaker 1: think anyone would have even thought to offer a reduced
Speaker 1: salary because you were happy with that exchange. And I
Speaker 1: often think people like don't take into account that if
Speaker 1: you're happy with that exchange and financial exchanges, like the
Speaker 1: value financially is not the only thing you got out
Speaker 1: of that job. You were willing to trade your time
Speaker 1: for what you would get out of it. And if
Speaker 1: you'd never suggested that, he couldn't have said yes. So
Speaker 1: I love that reminder that just throw things out there
Speaker 1: because people might say yes, and it could be the
Speaker 1: thing that launches you into a senior position six months
Speaker 1: later that you never could have you know, created, unless
Speaker 1: you'd asked. So I think that's amazing.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and I think there's a lot to be said
Speaker 2: about like that. If there's a will, there's a way.
Speaker 2: And I know it's an old fashioned saying, but truly,
Speaker 2: and that's why Nick and I are generally on the
Speaker 2: same page for ninety nine percent of the things that
Speaker 2: we discuss. In the one percent would be digital and
Speaker 2: I don't understand that world because it's a title. It's
Speaker 2: a totally different language. But in all honesty, I think
Speaker 2: earning your stripes and being humble enough to kind of go, okay,
Speaker 2: I realize I'm not the perfect candidate. I realize that
Speaker 2: there are some things that I need to I'm an
Speaker 2: unpolished diamond, so to speak, a rough diamond, and so,
Speaker 2: you know, putting yourself in a position where it just
Speaker 2: is easy for people to say yes, that is the skill.
Speaker 2: And really, I think it's about empathy. It's really about
Speaker 2: putting yourself in the other person's position and going, why
Speaker 2: are they saying no? They're not just saying no because
Speaker 2: there are wholes and they want to make you like.
Speaker 1: Struggle all the time.
Speaker 2: I'm not Honestly, I truly believe that people are good,
Speaker 2: and people are optimistic, and people are glass huffull. So
Speaker 2: people don't like saying no. It's harder to say no
Speaker 2: than it is to say yes. But it's our jobs
Speaker 2: to make them feel like it's easier to say yes.
Speaker 2: And then I'm having that empathy and understanding their position
Speaker 2: and understanding where they're coming from. That then allows you
Speaker 2: to then go, Okay, these are the reasons why they
Speaker 2: feel like they need to say no. I'm going to
Speaker 2: like reduce those barriers and then allow them to say
Speaker 2: yes because they want to say yes.
Speaker 1: Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2: That's how I've always kind of gone through life because
Speaker 2: I want to yes.
Speaker 1: But that's so clever, because do you know so many people,
Speaker 1: when they ask a question or they pitch something to you,
Speaker 1: they don't actually think about making it appealing to you,
Speaker 1: Like they don't think about maximizing the appeal of the proposition.
Speaker 1: And it's so weird because it's like, don't you think
Speaker 1: the other person's ease of saying yes would be the
Speaker 1: first thing you would think about when you pitch an idea?
Speaker 1: But I think a lot of people don't make that connection.
Speaker 1: They just go, these are the reasons why I want
Speaker 1: this job. This is why I think I'm the best candidate.
Speaker 1: They don't even look at the criteria the other person
Speaker 1: is put forward and try to match that up. But
Speaker 1: I think why you get yeses all the time is
Speaker 1: because you only develop your pitch based on what the
Speaker 1: other person wants and what they're able to say yes to,
Speaker 1: which means you get a yes more than most people.
Speaker 1: It's like math, just do the math exactly.
Speaker 2: I love Eddie Murphy and I think it was raw delirious,
Speaker 2: but he's like, what have you done for me lately?
Speaker 2: In one of the skits, and it's really true. Every
Speaker 2: single person out there kind of innately feels like that.
Speaker 2: So if you can connect with them and go, well,
Speaker 2: this is what I've done for you lately, you'll get
Speaker 2: a yes. So that with that, With that said.
Speaker 1: I got the yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I got a lot of yes's with TPR and
Speaker 2: then then moved over to sentrepe and that's where I
Speaker 2: kind of learned the corporate life in an American sense,
Speaker 2: and again improve my Rolodex and then focused really on
Speaker 2: my career. But can I just be honest my personal
Speaker 2: life was going down the drain, I was going through
Speaker 2: a tough divorce, and then I found myself in my
Speaker 2: early thirties going, Okay, do I just pack up and
Speaker 2: move back home to Melbourne. I'm here by myself. I
Speaker 2: had a lot of buzzy friends. There are so many
Speaker 2: Australians in New York. For anyone that's listening that wants
Speaker 2: to move to New York, do it. It's really easy. Maybe
Speaker 2: not right now with the with the flights, but it
Speaker 2: is really easy to get to get a visa. So
Speaker 2: I rang my parents and I'm like, what do I do?
Speaker 2: Do I pack up? Do I come back home? And
Speaker 2: to me, it was almost like at that moment, failure
Speaker 2: accepting failure if I moved back home, not because like
Speaker 2: Melbourne wasn't New York or anything like that. Melbourne is
Speaker 2: home for me and it always will be, and that's
Speaker 2: where my family and my friends from high school are.
Speaker 2: But for me personally, I was like, I moved to
Speaker 2: New York for my career. I'm going to make this
Speaker 2: happen and I need to see it through. And just
Speaker 2: because my personal life had kind of fallen through the cracks,
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to give up, and you know, I
Speaker 2: really focused on my career and I got Brand of
Speaker 2: the Year at ALTA. I tripled the budget number, everyone
Speaker 2: got delivered bonuses. It was a really I was number
Speaker 2: one as far a number one at Alta. It was
Speaker 2: a really good time to be in that company, and
Speaker 2: I was really able to thrive because they invested so
Speaker 2: much in me and just put so much trust in me.
Speaker 2: But then I just got tired and I had that
Speaker 2: Charlotte Sex and the City moment where she goes. I
Speaker 2: obviously watched a lot of TV, so actually, can I
Speaker 2: I'm like, you can? I rewind that question at the
Speaker 2: start when you said.
Speaker 1: What if your life is just based on which character
Speaker 1: that's in the city resonates with you the most of
Speaker 1: a particular time in your life?
Speaker 2: Yea, that's the answer.
Speaker 1: I think that's a great way to make decisions in life.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm now Charlotte and I'm like, where is he?
Speaker 1: Great?
Speaker 2: Where is he? Already? I'm tired of dating because I
Speaker 2: tried the Tinder and the Bumble and like Hinge and
Speaker 2: every other app, and New York's really tough, really really
Speaker 2: really tough. So I went to Europe as Australians do.
Speaker 2: I didn't do a Kentiqui tour. I was too old
Speaker 2: for that. But it was four other cliche right, four
Speaker 2: other Aussi's and we just did a trip around Europe.
Speaker 2: It's funny because now I live in Europe and doing
Speaker 2: Europe isn't a thing. Like Europeans just go to one
Speaker 2: place and they relax and they settle down for two
Speaker 2: or three weeks and they enjoy the sun and they
Speaker 2: enjoy their vacation. No Australians have to do all of
Speaker 2: Europe in two and a half weeks and spent two
Speaker 2: days in every city.
Speaker 1: And then you've done Europe. Yeah. Absolutely, it's because we've
Speaker 1: flown like eighty five hours to get there. It's like
Speaker 1: I am going to tick off all the countries, all
Speaker 1: of them, and just get one photo like at each
Speaker 1: main tourist attraction, just to prove that you were there.
Speaker 2: It was there because Instagram says I was there, So
Speaker 2: I was there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's so good.
Speaker 2: So I did Europe with my girlfriends and the very
Speaker 2: last night, at the very last destination. And you'll appreciate this.
Speaker 2: I hadn't actually made out with anyone or met anyone
Speaker 2: It was a single girl's trip and it was five
Speaker 2: weeks and we're walking into Pasha and the girls are
Speaker 2: chanting Pasha, shot.
Speaker 1: A bea r Pasha.
Speaker 2: Yep, so we're classy. We're classy chicks, so clol. I
Speaker 2: get to the D floor and yeah, I actually met
Speaker 2: a guy and made out with him that there was
Speaker 2: a Pasha Pasha, you passed it. That was the start.
Speaker 2: I have bloom effects.
Speaker 1: This is a good I love that this love story
Speaker 1: started at like Pasha, of all the nightclubs, of all
Speaker 1: the places. It was in Abitha on a girl's trip.
Speaker 1: This is the best news.
Speaker 2: Well it could Voodoo Lounge.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad it wasn't, But you know, it's so
Speaker 1: interesting like that also brings to mind, you know, the
Speaker 1: whole idea of you know, good things fall apart, so
Speaker 1: better things can fall together. Like you didn't know at
Speaker 1: that time when you felt like your personal life in
Speaker 1: your thirties was going down the drain and you've got
Speaker 1: to start from scratch again. But this beautiful love story
Speaker 1: was waiting for you around the corner. And there are
Speaker 1: also big chapters of your life where your personal life
Speaker 1: is your priority, and then your career becomes your priority
Speaker 1: for a little while, and that is okay for the
Speaker 1: whatever balance looks like for you to change. I think
Speaker 1: people don't. They think they need to stick to one
Speaker 1: formula all of the time. And it's like, actually, in
Speaker 1: different periods of your life when you're an expat, like
Speaker 1: you have such different priorities to what you have when
Speaker 1: you're at home and when you're in lockdown, and you
Speaker 1: have totally different priorities to when you're out of lockdown, Like,
Speaker 1: it's okay for the rules to look really different. So
Speaker 1: I think it's amazing that you let yourself have a
Speaker 1: period where it was just about work and building your career,
Speaker 1: and then when you were least expecting it, like, it
Speaker 1: came back to a time for you to make decisions
Speaker 1: about personal life and family. And it's okay for like
Speaker 1: your life to go in cycles and for things to change.
Speaker 1: I think that's, yeah, such a good lesson from listening
Speaker 1: to your story that I think about all the time.
Speaker 2: Definitely, And there's no one that can tell you what
Speaker 2: the balance should be either. I just wanted to add
Speaker 2: to that because you know, parents, family, friends back home
Speaker 2: all concerned and no one knows what's right for you
Speaker 2: apart from yourself. So you just got to listen to yourself,
Speaker 2: and you've got to be really true to yourself. And
Speaker 2: I was okay with throwing myself into work, and I
Speaker 2: know that balance wasn't great then, but I was able
Speaker 2: to achieve a lot in a short amount of time.
Speaker 2: And I think that if I was too focused on
Speaker 2: finding the next husband or finding the right guy, or
Speaker 2: you know, missed a second time right, then it would
Speaker 2: have been too stressful. It would have been too stressful.
Speaker 2: And I was more confident in myself because I'd felt
Speaker 2: that I'd achieved these accolades. I was with my friends,
Speaker 2: I was on vacation, and yeah, locked eyes with a
Speaker 2: Dutch tool farmer and he couldn't resist.
Speaker 1: This is so crazy. And a Melbourne girl from Melbourne
Speaker 1: who moved to New York who was working in New
Speaker 1: York was in a Betha where also a tulip farmer
Speaker 1: from Amsterdam was there. Like what other? This is like?
Speaker 1: Fate clearly wanted to bring you two together.
Speaker 2: Well, you're elevating me there. You called me Melbourne girl.
Speaker 2: Really it's a Frankston girl.
Speaker 1: Oh well, I love that you started off with Morning
Speaker 1: to Peninsula girl. I was like, okay, okay, I was
Speaker 1: gonna say Franger girl, but whatever my parents.
Speaker 2: My parents got passion. They moved to Analyza when I
Speaker 2: moved out, so they do live on the Morning to
Speaker 2: Pininsula now. But I get up in Frankston.
Speaker 1: You can It's been a good story. This is why
Speaker 1: you're good at marketing. But before we get to this
Speaker 1: beautiful new chapter of your life, I think one of
Speaker 1: the things that comes up often in stories like yours
Speaker 1: and mind where there's been like some big pivot or
Speaker 1: some big change in life and career structure is that
Speaker 1: often you hit a point where what your life looks
Speaker 1: like is you have everything you've ever dreamed of, You've
Speaker 1: got the dream job, you've got all these accolades, you've
Speaker 1: proven yourself professionally, and yet something is missing. And it's
Speaker 1: like for grateful people who have always been brought up
Speaker 1: to be grateful for the things around you, creates this
Speaker 1: weird cognitive dissonance of like, why do I feel like
Speaker 1: this is enough? This is what everyone would kill for, Like,
Speaker 1: these opportunities are amazing, but inevitably, when you are like
Speaker 1: when you are ready for some kind of big change,
Speaker 1: your body and your mind starts to agitate for that
Speaker 1: and you start to feel like but then it's really
Speaker 1: hard to act on that because you've hit those accolades
Speaker 1: and you have been very humble in relation to the
Speaker 1: is about Saint Trope like you have done. I'll put
Speaker 1: them in the intro, the actual stats, but they are
Speaker 1: so impressive. What you were able to achieve is this
Speaker 1: huge corporate big wig. But then to walk away from
Speaker 1: such a huge career, you know, head of marketing at
Speaker 1: psed Cousins is like the ultimate goals and I think
Speaker 1: people can't understand often, like why did you walk away
Speaker 1: from that all? So how did that whole shift of
Speaker 1: like hitting a goal you thought you had to then
Speaker 1: this big life shift to starting your own business, which actually,
Speaker 1: it turns out was the goal when you were younger,
Speaker 1: Like how did it all come together? You know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Like all the pieces are starting to connect. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I honestly quit my job, packed up my studio apartment
Speaker 2: in Manhattan, said goodbye to my friends, said goodbye to
Speaker 2: my career, thinking I'm not ever going to work in
Speaker 2: beauty ever again. I was prepared to give it all up,
Speaker 2: and I was prepared to give it all up because
Speaker 2: I was marrying or going to we're talking about marriage,
Speaker 2: you know. This was the first step to that. I
Speaker 2: was giving all of that up because hein couldn't leave
Speaker 2: and I knew that. On the first date, He's like,
Speaker 2: I'm a tulip farmer, and tulips grow in the Netherlands.
Speaker 2: Ninety percent of the world's production grow in the Netherlands,
Speaker 2: and it's the perfect climate for tulips and the fourth
Speaker 2: generation and the company is called h M Vernhusta. My
Speaker 2: initials are HM van Hasta. I'm the eldest son of
Speaker 2: the fourth generation, like he was born into this role.
Speaker 2: And on the very first day, I think I appreciated
Speaker 2: how blunt and honest. And if you know any Dutch people,
Speaker 2: they're the most blunt people on earth.
Speaker 1: They don't beat around the bush, not sure.
Speaker 2: No finesse is not their forte. So Hie was really blunt,
Speaker 2: like these these are the things that I see are
Speaker 2: a challenge in us kind of and this was on
Speaker 2: the first date. Mind you. He was like, I'm a
Speaker 2: toolip farmer. I'm not gonna move. It doesn't matter how
Speaker 2: like serious we get. I'm not moving. These are my
Speaker 2: responsibility and that's it. And I was like, okay, well
Speaker 2: I want kids.
Speaker 1: First date, so I'm going to come with you and
Speaker 1: let where was this still an abethera you guys still?
Speaker 2: So we were backtrack a little. We were kind of
Speaker 2: modern day pen pals. And because I was working so
Speaker 2: many hours and he was on the farm and he's
Speaker 2: pretty much related to everyone that works at his company.
Speaker 2: There's no distractions in the tool fields once a wife sidebar.
Speaker 2: But Farmer Wants a Wife is actually a Dutch show
Speaker 2: and Australians see and it's a real thing because they
Speaker 2: all work with their families. And so if you're a
Speaker 2: single Aussie listening and you want to meet a guy,
Speaker 2: come over to the Netherlands and meet a farmer.
Speaker 1: No, go to Pasha. First meet one there and then
Speaker 1: start a business based on whatever he farms exactly.
Speaker 2: So I yeah, I just said to him, I want kids.
Speaker 2: That was that was what I always stuck to and
Speaker 2: it was really important for me to start a family.
Speaker 2: You know, I have such a great relationship with my
Speaker 2: mom and my dream was to have a daughter. So yes,
Speaker 2: I mentioned before the career journey and be single minded
Speaker 2: about my career and be you know, an entrepreneur or
Speaker 2: female business owner one day. That was always like the
Speaker 2: career goal, but the personal goal was I want a daughter.
Speaker 2: A son, Yeah, I would settle for but I really
Speaker 2: I really want a daughter.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, thank god. If it was a girl,
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: I found it as soon as I go. But I
Speaker 2: wanted to replicate the relationship that I have with my mom.
Speaker 2: I wanted to be able to, yeah, be in my
Speaker 2: mom's shoes, and she's been such a great pillar of
Speaker 2: strength for me, and she's been through so much hardship
Speaker 2: in her life. That's another conversation, but yeah, I just
Speaker 2: really respect everything that she's given up for me and
Speaker 2: to be able to achieve what I've achieved because of
Speaker 2: her all her sacrifices. That's the only way that I
Speaker 2: can put it. Yeah, I was honest about that. He
Speaker 2: was honest about the farm, and I'm like, so if
Speaker 2: I move, then baby and farm. Right, So that was it?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how That's why it was so easy for me
Speaker 2: to make the decision, because I felt like I had
Speaker 2: achieved everything I needed to achieve in my career and
Speaker 2: I knew that I would work out something in the Netherlands.
Speaker 2: I got here though, and I didn't realize that Beneluxe
Speaker 2: is like a region, so Luxembourg, Belgium and the Netherlands,
Speaker 2: and you have to speak French, Dutch and English at
Speaker 2: business level. And I know you speak like one hundred languages,
Speaker 2: but for us normal.
Speaker 1: Folks not at business level though, I speak like sex
Speaker 1: and the city level. You know, like.
Speaker 2: You can order French food in a fancy lester.
Speaker 1: I know how to like, yeah, pick snacks. That's my
Speaker 1: main priority.
Speaker 2: But for me that was never going to be. Like
Speaker 2: Dutch is the hardest language to learn. I've been here
Speaker 2: for four years and I'm learning like the word for
Speaker 2: cow and the word for tree through Eva, so it's
Speaker 2: very exactly yeah. And so when I got here, I thought, shoot, okay,
Speaker 2: I'm never going to learn the languages, but I can
Speaker 2: do something. So I started consulting and I actually was
Speaker 2: like Tinder for businesses. So say you guys had a
Speaker 2: brand and it was the Nick and Sarah brand, and
Speaker 2: it was doing really well in Australia and you're like, Kim,
Speaker 2: I want to crack the United States. It's a great
Speaker 2: skincare range. The Nick and Sarah brand is doing so well,
Speaker 2: but I don't know anyone in the US. I would
Speaker 2: essentially be the Tinder platform and introduce you to the
Speaker 2: brokers or the retail guys anywhere that you would want
Speaker 2: to get distribution, because I had the rollerdex from all
Speaker 2: my previous jobs. But about a year and a half
Speaker 2: into that, I realized, why am I matchmaking for all
Speaker 2: of these other brands? I want to do it?
Speaker 1: I use it for yourself.
Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly, no offense to the Nick and Sarah brand.
Speaker 1: Okay, seriously, though, if you had existed when we first
Speaker 1: started matchimating, and when it's the US have happened a
Speaker 1: lot faster, you were exactly the conduit that so many
Speaker 1: people need to do cross border business. It is ridiculously overwhelming.
Speaker 1: But I'm so glad that you ended up realizing it
Speaker 1: wasn't for you, because again, you know what's really hard
Speaker 1: is when you're good at something, I feel like there's
Speaker 1: a bit of an obligation to keep doing it, because
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, I have this skill, I should use it.
Speaker 1: But you're allowed to choose to do something else instead.
Speaker 1: And I'm so glad that you did, because look at what.
Speaker 2: Happened exactly so you know, Blome effects really bloomed out
Speaker 2: of necessity because I was like, I'm bored here. I
Speaker 2: didn't speak the language, had no friends. Baby making was
Speaker 2: taking longer than expected. It's not as easy for some people.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that was challenging and I was stressed. And
Speaker 2: Hien was like, I think we're focusing too much on
Speaker 2: baby making. Why don't you do something that takes your
Speaker 2: mind off it. And you love work so much, try
Speaker 2: to find something that inspires you. And we were in
Speaker 2: the tool of fields and I know this sounds like
Speaker 2: a bit of a storybook, but we're like hand picking
Speaker 2: the toolips from his fields. We get them home, ranging
Speaker 2: them in the VARs. And first of all, I'm like,
Speaker 2: he and I suck at arranging flowers. Why can I like,
Speaker 2: I can't do this. They always move, they always change,
Speaker 2: And he said, Kim, they actually grow, That's why they're
Speaker 2: moving and changing. And I'm like what he said, Yeah,
Speaker 2: tulips are one of the only flowers that continue to
Speaker 2: grow once they're cut. And that is when I had
Speaker 2: the light bulb moment. I'm like, the secret sauce is
Speaker 2: just that say it against at a game. And so
Speaker 2: when I realized that the tulips grow after being cut
Speaker 2: from their plant. And you think of a rose, or
Speaker 2: you think of a cama mil or you think of ecinasia,
Speaker 2: they just wither and die in a vase. No, tulips
Speaker 2: continue to grow and they get longer. That's why they
Speaker 2: tend to flop over, which is why I thought I
Speaker 2: was sucking it arranging. And that was that was AHA
Speaker 2: moment because I know so many people that have that experience.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've ever had a bunch of
Speaker 2: mixed flowers that included tulips. You have like the hydrangers.
Speaker 2: After two or three days, everything's still stay static and
Speaker 2: then the tools like poking out exactly because they're the
Speaker 2: ones that continue to grow. And I first then my
Speaker 2: giddy brain went off and I was like, hein what
Speaker 2: is it? What are the compounds? What will that do
Speaker 2: for the skin? Is that going to promote collagen? Like?
Speaker 2: I want to identify the compounds. And we went on
Speaker 2: this whole kind of literature journey. We got government grants.
Speaker 2: When I say we, heindd because I don't speak Dutch.
Speaker 2: He applied for all these government grants then help farmers,
Speaker 2: and he did a lot to kind of get the
Speaker 2: research and the foundation of bloom Effects, and even then
Speaker 2: we didn't know it was called bloom Effects. We just
Speaker 2: wanted to unearth the power of the tool because initially
Speaker 2: it would have helped heinz business. It was like his
Speaker 2: family business, and we just needed to discovers what is
Speaker 2: this plant that we've been growing for centuries. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: we discovered it. We worked with the University of Leiden
Speaker 2: and that was really the backbone and the inspiration behind
Speaker 2: the whole Lumpegs brand because it's in everything we do now.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. I don't know about you guys, but
Speaker 1: I get such a rush of motivation and energy to
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Speaker 1: some of the cleverest minds and their wisdom without having
Speaker 1: to go anywhere, So don't miss the chance to take
Speaker 1: advantage while you can hopefully see you there neighborhood. Firstly,
Speaker 1: like you knew that you wanted to run a business
Speaker 1: when you're a kid, but if you had tried to
Speaker 1: start that business straight out of UNI, you would never
Speaker 1: have started the business you have now. Like this just
Speaker 1: goes to show that every step along the way has
Speaker 1: been necessary for you to get this idea. And I
Speaker 1: think we're so impatient to rush to the end all
Speaker 1: the time, but if you're just willing to sit through
Speaker 1: all the little bits and all the dot points, an
Speaker 1: idea will hit you at the right time, and often twice.
Speaker 1: In this story, you've mentioned times where you've gotten something
Speaker 1: the minute you stopped looking for it, the minute you
Speaker 1: stop stressing so hard about finding your next partner, or
Speaker 1: stop stressing so hard about making your baby. Like the it,
Speaker 1: you just take your foot off the breaks and be
Speaker 1: okay with like the universe taking its time. It happened,
Speaker 1: even getting pregnant, but also other things, better things happen
Speaker 1: along the way.
Speaker 2: Then I, you know, everything started happening with the business,
Speaker 2: and that's when I that's the moment where we had
Speaker 2: a lot of unsuccessful pregnancies. The miscarriages were really tough.
Speaker 2: Actually that's a discussion for another time too. But during
Speaker 2: that time, that's why it was so important for me
Speaker 2: to focus on something else, because I was getting really
Speaker 2: depressed and it wasn't happening, and I thought, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I left it too long, I'm too old, and all
Speaker 2: of those thoughts. I mean, as a woman, you just
Speaker 2: blame yourself naturally, and it's not a healthy way to
Speaker 2: think of things. But it's it's very difficult to get
Speaker 2: yourself out of that right where you're like, is there
Speaker 2: something wrong? With my body. Why why you know everyone
Speaker 2: else falls pregnant so so easily. But yeah, you're so right,
Speaker 2: because as soon as things started kind of taking off
Speaker 2: with bloom effects. In fact, I found out I was
Speaker 2: pregnant the day of our event, our press event, so
Speaker 2: we had like editors, we had air flu and says
Speaker 2: carrying a party and I was eight weeks pregnant and
Speaker 2: couldn't have any champagne.
Speaker 1: I'm throwing up at the party.
Speaker 2: I was green. I matched the color of the leaves
Speaker 2: from the tulips, like I was really green back in
Speaker 2: the pictures.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh wow. Not great timing. But it's also
Speaker 1: funny that, like you mentioned, starting the business wasn't like
Speaker 1: you didn't sit down and make a business plan of
Speaker 1: this is the business that I want to have at
Speaker 1: this size with these stockers, with this packaging. Like it's
Speaker 1: I think people think that's how businesses happen. You have
Speaker 1: an AHA moment, and you have an RHA moment for
Speaker 1: the whole concept of you know what the business is
Speaker 1: meant to look like in ten years. But the AHA
Speaker 1: moment is like a small idea. It's usually just oh,
Speaker 1: tulips and beauty, and that's like as much detail as
Speaker 1: you need until tomorrow, which is okay, well, what's good
Speaker 1: about the tulips? And then how do we put that
Speaker 1: into something? And then like you only need to do
Speaker 1: one step at a time, and people get so overwhelmed
Speaker 1: because they think that they have to do all the
Speaker 1: steps on the first day. But I love that bloom
Speaker 1: Effects is like really developed from small ideas, just taking
Speaker 1: one step after the other after the other, and now
Speaker 1: it's turned into this big thing. But you didn't conceive
Speaker 1: of this on day one.
Speaker 2: That's totally right. And actually I think it's it goes
Speaker 2: back to that mentality of chipping away at something because
Speaker 2: for me, unearthing the power of the tulip was that moment.
Speaker 2: But then I'm like, well what do I do with that?
Speaker 2: And it did come quite naturally. I was still consulting.
Speaker 2: I was using a platform called Venmo to pay my
Speaker 2: babysitter to get was like pay pal, so like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I was paying my babysitter to like help me create
Speaker 2: these products. And I was scrappy. I was really scrappy
Speaker 2: because you know, it was just me. I was using
Speaker 2: my savings and I believed in this, but I didn't
Speaker 2: know where it was going to go. And then once
Speaker 2: I found out I was pregnant, I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: I have kind of a reason or motivation to truly
Speaker 2: make this a brand. I needed to use clean beauty,
Speaker 2: and coming from pharmaceuticals, I really was more science led
Speaker 2: and having exma, I've been in and out of dermatologist
Speaker 2: all my life, so I knew how to look after
Speaker 2: my skin, and I knew about having a healthy microbiome
Speaker 2: and having a good barrier function. But I didn't know
Speaker 2: about clean beauty at all. And then wow, just it
Speaker 2: didn't resonate with me because I was like, oh, does
Speaker 2: that stuff really work? I've got egma and clean Beauty
Speaker 2: doesn't talk to eggma. It talks to people that are
Speaker 2: more focused on cleaning in terms of the toxicity. But
Speaker 2: then I got pregnant and I was like, oh, half
Speaker 2: my regimen I'm not allowed to use, right, And that's
Speaker 2: when I was like, okay, I need to understand this
Speaker 2: a little bit more. And you know, because of my
Speaker 2: pharmaceutical background and my interest in chemistry, I was like,
Speaker 2: what are these actives that I'm not allowed to use
Speaker 2: during pregnancy? If I'm not allowed to use them, dream
Speaker 2: of pregnancy, then are they really good for me? And
Speaker 2: I just that really spun everything on its heat, And
Speaker 2: so that is why, honestly you wear clean beauty because
Speaker 2: of that personal journey and discovery that I had and
Speaker 2: I realized, hey, there are other ways that I can
Speaker 2: heal and treat and nourish my skin without having to
Speaker 2: go to prescription medicines.
Speaker 1: Right, Oh my gosh, it's so interesting. I think it's
Speaker 1: like hearing the reasoning behind certain parts of a philosophy
Speaker 1: of a brand makes the brand so much more alive
Speaker 1: for me. Like I get so excited when I hear
Speaker 1: the story behind it, and I mean, I already knew this,
Speaker 1: which is why every time I talk about Bloom, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't have enough frames in my stories to talk
Speaker 1: about everything I want to talk about because it's almost
Speaker 1: like I know too many things and it's all exciting.
Speaker 1: But hearing it all unraveled this way, I think it's
Speaker 1: so exciting. It makes Bloom effects the most vibrant, dynamic
Speaker 1: thing ever. And like, I can't believe it's taken me
Speaker 1: fifty minutes to even get to this topic because I've
Speaker 1: been so interested, Like this is another one of those
Speaker 1: episodes where I'm like, I just want to ask him,
Speaker 1: like I haven't heard all these stories before, so I'm
Speaker 1: just going to take as long as i want. But
Speaker 1: I'm like, shit, oh my god, it's been fifty minutes.
Speaker 1: But what are some of the things that now the
Speaker 1: range like that you're so excited about? Like, I know
Speaker 1: it isn't just clean beauty. The ingredients and the Dutch
Speaker 1: proprietary complex of you know that's come from the tulips
Speaker 1: you guys have developed is amazing, but it's also the
Speaker 1: packaging you're using, like sawdust to make the tubes. It's
Speaker 1: amazing what you've been able to achieve so far. And yes,
Speaker 1: oh my god, so tell us everything. What are all
Speaker 1: the things that you're so proud of now? What the wait?
Speaker 2: Can I have my beauty influence a moment and Ange
Speaker 2: will be so proud?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yes, please shall be so proud of you.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, what are the things like you're
Speaker 1: most proud of now? And like the biggest milestones you've
Speaker 1: heard and just yeah, why you're excited about what it
Speaker 1: can do and what it's going to do.
Speaker 2: I'm super excited because every time we get a review
Speaker 2: there's always like really considered reviews that come through the
Speaker 2: website and I read them and it really touches my
Speaker 2: heart because I've gone through such a personal journey and
Speaker 2: anyone that follows us on bloom Effects on Instagram will
Speaker 2: see that I have good days and bad days, and
Speaker 2: I'm very honest about my skin struggles. But it's great
Speaker 2: to hear that other people in the universe are having
Speaker 2: great experiences as well. So that makes me really proud
Speaker 2: that we're making a difference to people's lives. And then
Speaker 2: from a sustainability perspective, I do love that we really
Speaker 2: try to make a difference with our packaging. But what
Speaker 2: I will say is it's not something that we hang
Speaker 2: our hats on that often, because it should just be
Speaker 2: the norm these days in corporate beauty. I think that
Speaker 2: everything that you do in business you should be considering sustainability.
Speaker 2: That's the path forward, because you know, climate change is
Speaker 2: real and we need to make sure that we have
Speaker 2: a future for our children and for me selfishly, I
Speaker 2: just want to make sure that the world's a good
Speaker 2: place that my daughter's growing up in. So yes, we
Speaker 2: have glass which is infinitely cyclable, we have our PCA tubes,
Speaker 2: which were the first ones in the United States to
Speaker 2: use this technology. It's ninety five percent renewable resources, and
Speaker 2: it's actually made out of Germans ordust, which is a
Speaker 2: topical issue at homes, like I wish it was dust
Speaker 2: from like Dutch people, not like Germans because there's like
Speaker 2: a rivalry. It's kind of like a it's kind of
Speaker 2: like a New Zealand Australian thing where they're friends but.
Speaker 1: Not Yeah, okay, I would like Dutch thought whatever.
Speaker 2: Most in terms of our sustainability is being able to
Speaker 2: push back on the supply chain. And when I say
Speaker 2: push back on the supply chain, aka push back on
Speaker 2: my husband and the way far must work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like white, isn't your supply chair? So your husband.
Speaker 2: We're in a really unique position where our raw material
Speaker 2: is sourced from you know, family basically, and we have
Speaker 2: the ability to push back on supply chain and ensure
Speaker 2: ethically and sustainable growth. So crop rotation is a very
Speaker 2: important thing, and make sure that toolips aren't grown in
Speaker 2: the same location, so you know, when you have a
Speaker 2: geo location tag for the TOOLI fields and people are
Speaker 2: always dming are saying I want to see the toolet fields.
Speaker 2: Where are they? What's the location? Well, guess what it's
Speaker 2: going to be that location, and it won't be that
Speaker 2: location for another seven years because we actually have crop rotation.
Speaker 2: We don't grow the same crop on the same piece
Speaker 2: of land for another seven years and that allows different
Speaker 2: crops to then give the soil nourishment. It means that
Speaker 2: we're replenishing the soil, we're not stripping the soil, and
Speaker 2: it's a very important part of more natural and sustainable agriculture.
Speaker 2: Sir David Edinburgh actually did a documentary recently about climate
Speaker 2: change and there's a whole section about why Dutch farmers
Speaker 2: are actually the most sustainable farmers in the world and
Speaker 2: the whole ethos is doing more with less and this
Speaker 2: tiny country, it's like the size of Tasmania is doing
Speaker 2: so much to feed the world and supports the whole
Speaker 2: world's needs of plants and cup fl as well. And
Speaker 2: it's second to the United States, which is so big,
Speaker 2: and his tiny country is doing so much to pull
Speaker 2: their weight.
Speaker 1: It's amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So in terms of what we're proud of in
Speaker 2: terms of sustainability, it's that ability to push back on
Speaker 2: the supply chain because of my husband. And not only
Speaker 2: do we upcycle the tulip bulbs because I know I
Speaker 2: call him a tulip farmer, but he's actually a bulb grower,
Speaker 2: and bulb growers don't actually use the flower at all.
Speaker 2: So those beautiful Instagram pitches and drone shots that you
Speaker 2: see of the tulips growing, that's all waste. They actually
Speaker 2: just dig up the bulbs and then they put bulbs
Speaker 2: in little sacks and they sell them at places like
Speaker 2: Bunnings where you then can go into a store and
Speaker 2: plant the bulbs into your garden.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, but the flowers themselves are all waste.
Speaker 2: So initially when we launched the brand, we use a
Speaker 2: proprietary Dutch toolip complex, which uses upcycled bulbs because a
Speaker 2: lot of consumers want uniformity. When you go to the
Speaker 2: grocery store, your cucumbers, your tomatoes, your eggs, they're all uniform.
Speaker 2: Heirloom isn't just a trend. Heirlooms actually the way Mother
Speaker 2: Nature intended. And if you want to call them ailom bolbs,
Speaker 2: they're the ones that are discarded because of their irregular
Speaker 2: shape and size, and heink can't use them, even though
Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with the bulbs. So that's what we use.
Speaker 2: We upcycle the wasted discarded bulbs at heind can't sell
Speaker 2: and we use that in our proprietary Dutch tool complex
Speaker 2: through stem cell technology. And so that's in you know,
Speaker 2: products like this, the nectar and the dew cream and
Speaker 2: the dew drops some of my favorites. But most recently
Speaker 2: we've just launched this and it's not available on a
Speaker 2: show just yet.
Speaker 1: So pretty.
Speaker 2: Oh my. So it's superlux and they're super fancy. But
Speaker 2: so yeah, as a consumer, going back to that, I
Speaker 2: always wanted to be spoken to as a female and
Speaker 2: not a patient. I think the aesthetic of our brand
Speaker 2: is very much about luxury and enjoy that feminine moment.
Speaker 2: And that's been really important to me because yeah, I
Speaker 2: do have examum, but I want pretty things too. I
Speaker 2: don't want to be a patient.
Speaker 1: And like, what I love so much about how much
Speaker 1: thought goes into everything is that the jars for the
Speaker 1: range that uses the bulbs are shaped like bulbs, but
Speaker 1: the black tulip uses the benefits from the tulip petals,
Speaker 1: so it's shapel.
Speaker 2: Like actually exactly, I'm so I have nick told you that,
Speaker 2: because sometimes I forget that fact. But yeah, I was
Speaker 2: about to say from the sustainability factor, because all the
Speaker 2: flowers are waste. And it's devastating actually to me because
Speaker 2: they go in with like essentially this huge lawn mower
Speaker 2: and they cut the heads off the tulips and people
Speaker 2: get Yeah, they have that reaction on TikTok and on Instagram.
Speaker 2: Every time we explain what chopping is, people are really
Speaker 2: mad actually in the comments and they're like, why are
Speaker 2: you destroying the fields? Why are you cutting all these flowers?
Speaker 2: Can't you use them? How dare you cut the beer?
Speaker 2: And it's like, well, one it's private property, and two
Speaker 2: it's his livelihoods so and three it's actually how you
Speaker 2: get a bigger bolb. Yeah, and all over the world
Speaker 2: because they.
Speaker 1: Export all over the world.
Speaker 2: So what happens is if you left the flower on
Speaker 2: the plant, then the plant would actually turn into a
Speaker 2: seed box and you would get tiny little seeds, and
Speaker 2: then next season you would have to then plant those
Speaker 2: seeds and it takes seven years to go from a
Speaker 2: little seed to an actual plant that has a flower.
Speaker 2: And he can't wait seven years. He needs flowers every year.
Speaker 2: He needs bulbs every year. So what he does is
Speaker 2: goes through and chops the head off the tool, leaves
Speaker 2: the leaves in the stem, and the compounds that are
Speaker 2: in the stem and the leaves are keneten and oxen,
Speaker 2: and that's what elongates the stem and actually is great
Speaker 2: for the skin, but that is what creates more energy
Speaker 2: for the plant photosynthesizers, and the sugars go back into
Speaker 2: the bulb, yielding a bigger bolb. So then when he
Speaker 2: then harvests them out of the ground, you get big
Speaker 2: juicy bulbs. And the bigger the bulb, the bigger the flower.
Speaker 2: Because people expect flowers every single year. So what do
Speaker 2: you do with all that waste? You know, all the tulips,
Speaker 2: the billions and billions of tulips that are just cut
Speaker 2: from the head. And they've been doing this for centuries.
Speaker 2: It's a sixteenth century industry, and little old me here
Speaker 2: revolutionize this sixteenth thous exactly. We were like, hey, we're
Speaker 2: going to use those choppings. We'll find out the compounds
Speaker 2: that are in the choppings, then we're going to use
Speaker 2: that in our proprietary Dutch tool of complex. But wait,
Speaker 2: one of the findings was the deeper, the darker the tulip,
Speaker 2: the richer the flabinoid count. And flabinoids are essentially antioxidants,
Speaker 2: so I'm.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, they were in MATCHA two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm going to go, Okay, flabinoids, how do
Speaker 2: we harness those deeper, the darker the tulip, what's the deepest,
Speaker 2: darkest black toolip. I learned that and then chopping, okay,
Speaker 2: sustainable upcycling. We're gonna be the first ones to upcycle
Speaker 2: these this waste product which is all the petals, and
Speaker 2: that's how Black Tool was born. So it's like science,
Speaker 2: nature and necessity for the Yeah. Pretty cool.
Speaker 1: That is why I get so flipping excited about this
Speaker 1: brand because, like I think, one of the most incredible things,
Speaker 1: and I talk about it all the time and people like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, Sarah, stop it, get off your soapbox.
Speaker 1: But I get so excited when businesses use their impact
Speaker 1: in business towards causes, like because if they don't have
Speaker 1: to do that, they businesses and consumers and will survive
Speaker 1: no matter what. But I love that when businesses use
Speaker 1: the choices the impact that they can create with the
Speaker 1: choices that they make in their supply chain, and with
Speaker 1: their packaging and with the way that they do things
Speaker 1: to educate and to have an impact beyond just the
Speaker 1: creation and the selling of what they do, Like it
Speaker 1: makes me so excited. I'm like, oh my god, business
Speaker 1: is channeling their impact for good. And I think it's
Speaker 1: so amazing that your actual product development has stemmed from
Speaker 1: global problem solving rather than like I just want to
Speaker 1: create a fancy product that is, you know, the next
Speaker 1: version of whatever that uses the pedals. It came out
Speaker 1: of filling a gap environmentally. And that's something that I
Speaker 1: love about you guys, that you are so led by
Speaker 1: something bigger than just what is going to be the nice,
Speaker 1: prettiest beauty product, even though that, of course, like high
Speaker 1: performance beauty products is important. So much else is important
Speaker 1: to the brand as well, and it's been like there,
Speaker 1: having been around since the start and seeing all this,
Speaker 1: I am a sucker for a niche community. Like the
Speaker 1: podcast allows me to just dive really deep into really
Speaker 1: specific areas and learning all about tulip farming and the
Speaker 1: seven year cycles, Like it's fascinating.
Speaker 2: Well, you're going to get over here and get your
Speaker 2: hands dirty. We're going to make Yeah, as soon as
Speaker 2: you can travel, you and nick me to come over
Speaker 2: here and we'll give you all the planting experience you need.
Speaker 2: But to your point about people caring parton than the French,
Speaker 2: but like people give a shit. And I think that
Speaker 2: any brand that tells themselves that it's just about consumerism
Speaker 2: is fooling themselves because these days you just you can't.
Speaker 2: You have to be triple threat, you have to you
Speaker 2: have to be three sixty in your approach. We're just
Speaker 2: really lucky that we have such access to a true business.
Speaker 2: And I know a lot of brands talk about in
Speaker 2: my space anyway, they talk about you know, farm to
Speaker 2: face or farm to table or you know, working with farmers,
Speaker 2: et cetera. This is not just a pretty Instagram moment
Speaker 2: like it is a legit business. As I said, hands
Speaker 2: a fourth generation tool of farmer. His business is actually
Speaker 2: what pays for the roof over our head. You know,
Speaker 2: we're just a baby, baby business and we're still really scrappy,
Speaker 2: and it certainly doesn't put food on the table. So
Speaker 2: here's the provider right now. I hope that one day
Speaker 2: that I can, you know, pay him back in spades,
Speaker 2: but right now it's his business that is the legit business,
Speaker 2: and so in that sense, it's not like the farm
Speaker 2: is the Instagram moment. The farm is truly its own thing.
Speaker 2: It is a commercial business on its own. And to
Speaker 2: have positive impact on another industry when you're such a
Speaker 2: small indie brand is really a humbling. You know, we're
Speaker 2: like a tiny, tiny brand right now, and one day
Speaker 2: we won't be I'm sure, being single minded as I am,
Speaker 2: I'm sure that this will be successful and people will
Speaker 2: find out about us. But in the scheme of things,
Speaker 2: we're tiny, and we are trying to make this impact
Speaker 2: and we're actually making positive change where the government and
Speaker 2: even the National Tourism Board is like, wow, you're doing
Speaker 2: something sustainable and upcycling, and you're bringing innovation from one
Speaker 2: industry into another industry that is male dominated, that is
Speaker 2: centuries old, that is a patriarchy. Like I said, fourth
Speaker 2: generation son, he was born into it. There are a
Speaker 2: lot of things that as an Asian female, an ossy
Speaker 2: Asian female coming into this, people wouldn't expect me to
Speaker 2: make positive change to the toolip industry. So for me personally,
Speaker 2: it's a lot more than sustainability. It's actually giving Eva
Speaker 2: the the balanced future, like a picture of a balanced
Speaker 2: future ahead that you know, it's not that she just
Speaker 2: has to follow her footsteps in her father or like,
Speaker 2: you know, because there's it's always it's discussed as the business.
Speaker 2: It's like the mob the business. It's you know, the family,
Speaker 2: the family business, and it's only the sons are getting involved,
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. No, she has an opportunity now.
Speaker 2: She can choose bloom effects or she can choose the farm.
Speaker 2: And that was really important to me because my mom
Speaker 2: put all of those goals and pushed me to strive
Speaker 2: for more and for a better life. And I want
Speaker 2: to be able to do that in my own way
Speaker 2: for my daughter.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, I have goosebums. That's so beautiful. But just
Speaker 1: by the bye, like you keep saying, tenny, teny tiny,
Speaker 1: it's mate in Bloomingdale's sacks. Like you've won so many
Speaker 1: beauty awards. It's only been around for like how long
Speaker 1: two years, not even and have won yeah, for jillion prizes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I created this.
Speaker 1: You do not play it down. Man. The products themselves
Speaker 1: are incredible, thank you. Yeah, but I mean the results
Speaker 1: have just been extraordinary aside from everything else, that you're doing.
Speaker 1: So it's been absolutely amazing to watch and so exciting
Speaker 1: to continue to watch for what you guys have been
Speaker 1: able to achieve. I would love to ask, I've kind
Speaker 1: of run us really short of time because I got
Speaker 1: too excited about the story, which I often do because
Speaker 1: the story just makes me like, oh, but along the way.
Speaker 1: There was meant to be a full section on your ATA,
Speaker 1: but just a couple of things I'd love to ask.
Speaker 1: I think you seem to be very good at just
Speaker 1: breaking down what you need to get done to get
Speaker 1: towards your goal. And I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: like will figure out what their goal is and know
Speaker 1: what it looks like, but then not be able to
Speaker 1: just take the action to just do it. And I'm
Speaker 1: sure it wasn't as simple as you make it sound
Speaker 1: like I just wanted this goal and so I just
Speaker 1: moved from New York to Amsdam. I just wanted this
Speaker 1: thing and I just made this big change. But it
Speaker 1: does seem like you have ahead on your shop ordes
Speaker 1: it allows you to do that for people who get
Speaker 1: paralyzed with self doubt or expectation or fear or comparison
Speaker 1: or whatever barriers stop them from being able to take
Speaker 1: action and take control of their lives, even if it
Speaker 1: involves like how many different structures have you done? You've
Speaker 1: gone from business to corporate and corporate back to business,
Speaker 1: from the US to Melbourne to you know, the Netherlands.
Speaker 1: Like how do you take big scary steps and be
Speaker 1: okay with them? And how would you encourage others who
Speaker 1: struggle with that to kind of get better at it.
Speaker 2: That's a really interesting question. And I actually never saw
Speaker 2: myself as a risk taker. I'm quite risk averse in
Speaker 2: a lot of ways because I do mentally kind of
Speaker 2: weigh up all of the pros and cons in my head.
Speaker 2: But I don't get paralyzed by it because I'm action oriented.
Speaker 2: I think being really crystal clear about going from A
Speaker 2: to Z, don't get mixed up with all the letters
Speaker 2: in between. That's really important. And again it's about that grit.
Speaker 2: It's about being single minded on that vision, have that
Speaker 2: picture of success, look at the obstacle ahead of you
Speaker 2: and go okay. So what are the negative pros and
Speaker 2: cons of going forward with this specific situation and how
Speaker 2: does it get to the end the Z or the Z?
Speaker 2: I forget where I come from now, I spend much
Speaker 2: time in I.
Speaker 1: Was going to say, you said Z, and I was like,
Speaker 1: WHOA still Australian at heart, like, but really, you know
Speaker 1: the astrozenica fac Everyone here calls it a Z. I'm like,
Speaker 1: excuse me, Like a Z sounds better than a Z,
Speaker 1: but I'm like, what's tomato?
Speaker 2: But for me, it's being And I've done my Maya's
Speaker 2: Briggs and all of that, and actually that abstract reasoning
Speaker 2: I think they call it is like my strongest ability.
Speaker 2: And that's like finding a solution in a problem where
Speaker 2: there's really no right answer. And the reason why I
Speaker 2: can do that is because I'm very crystal clear on
Speaker 2: that end result. So be end result focused and you're
Speaker 2: going to have hiccups. There'll be days where you're like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm going backwards, or this is so stressful,
Speaker 2: I want to throw in the towel. But if your
Speaker 2: end result oriented, you will get there and you just
Speaker 2: keep on chipping away. That's honestly my secret source. And
Speaker 2: having the ability to take risks is a luxury. I
Speaker 2: knew that if everything went belly up, I have a
Speaker 2: loving family. I have loving parents who have a wonderful home,
Speaker 2: and if it all goes belly up. What's the worst
Speaker 2: thing that could happen. I could pack up my bag
Speaker 2: and go back home to Melbourne and I would have
Speaker 2: a roof over my head and food on the table.
Speaker 2: So those necessities are a luxury, and I go back
Speaker 2: to what my mum instilled in me. Not everyone in
Speaker 2: the world has that, And if you have that, you
Speaker 2: have no reason to hold yourself back because some people
Speaker 2: are worried about where their next meal is coming from.
Speaker 2: So for me, I was like, yeah, I'm going to
Speaker 2: take this risk, going to quit my job and you know,
Speaker 2: follow my heart and meet this guy in Netherlands and
Speaker 2: meet his family and you know, try to have babies.
Speaker 2: But if it worked out there we didn't like each
Speaker 2: other and it all went to shit, then my parents
Speaker 2: still love me. I have a home back home in
Speaker 2: Melbourne and I can always go home. So that to
Speaker 2: me has been the ultimate luxury and the ability to
Speaker 2: give me confidence to take risks, because my fallback position
Speaker 2: isn't really a fallback. It's a place of love and
Speaker 2: it's a very special and unique and privileged place to be.
Speaker 2: And so anyone that has that, nothing else is really
Speaker 2: a risk, because what else really can go wrong. It's
Speaker 2: a bit different now, to be honest, because I'm responsible
Speaker 2: for a human being, and so probably probably now i'm
Speaker 2: more risk averse because I have to think, you know,
Speaker 2: my decisions will impact another human being, because I'm responsible
Speaker 2: for a tiny human being, and how does that impact
Speaker 2: her happiness and her life? So right now I think
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit more conservative. But back then, when
Speaker 2: it was just me and responsible for my own happiness, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think having a family is the most important thing.
Speaker 2: It sounds kind of cliche, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: It's but cliches a cliches for a reason. That's how
Speaker 1: they become cliches. I love that too. I think it's
Speaker 1: really beautiful to always just ask yourself, like what is
Speaker 1: the worst that can happen? And it's never nearly as
Speaker 1: bad as when you don't ask yourself the question. Like
Speaker 1: I think if you let the worst case scenario just
Speaker 1: look like this blurry scary thing over there that you
Speaker 1: never actually confront and think all the way through to
Speaker 1: its actual tangible what would it look like? Then it's
Speaker 1: like in a movie, if you can't see the ghost,
Speaker 1: it's way scarier than when you actually see it, And
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, it's just a monster like that, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like, as soon as you confront
Speaker 1: something head on, you're like, it's not that bad.
Speaker 2: Like it.
Speaker 1: The risk is not nearly as big as your brain
Speaker 1: will let it think. If you let it, you know,
Speaker 1: go completely out of control.
Speaker 2: I think that also can be said for plans as well,
Speaker 2: because I know that a lot of my friends have said, hey, Kim,
Speaker 2: you've got this up and running so quickly, and you
Speaker 2: weren't bogged down by the detail. And what I see
Speaker 2: is a lot of entrepreneurs or what people that want
Speaker 2: to get into entrepreneurial aspects of their life, they're really
Speaker 2: bogged down by their plans. And a plan is great,
Speaker 2: but the plan's not going to make anything happen. It's
Speaker 2: just words on a piece of paper. And for a
Speaker 2: dyslexic person like hello.
Speaker 1: It's not even words on a piece of paper, it's
Speaker 1: just learn exactly.
Speaker 2: So get into the doing, like, roll up your sleeves
Speaker 2: and just focus on going from A to Z as
Speaker 2: fast as you can because you'll learn on the way,
Speaker 2: and you'll learn your Everyone's going to make mistakes and
Speaker 2: you'll screw up, and then you'll dust yourself off, and
Speaker 2: you'll learn from it and you won't do it again,
Speaker 2: and that's how you improve. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, another question on that sort of challenge along the
Speaker 1: way thing that I think is really relevant to you.
Speaker 1: There's been many times that you've changed your identity or
Speaker 1: changed the category of life that you're in and the like,
Speaker 1: even just from the Australian market to the US market,
Speaker 1: and then from you know, from corporate, particularly as an employee,
Speaker 1: and then moving to running your own business having not
Speaker 1: done that before, even though you've run big departments. It's
Speaker 1: a very different thing. And I think one thing that
Speaker 1: people do is they get very siloed in I am
Speaker 1: a risk averse person. Therefore for the rest of my
Speaker 1: life I won't take risks and they don't realize well, actually,
Speaker 1: at any time you can decide I don't want to
Speaker 1: be a risk averse person anymore. You can actually change
Speaker 1: your views and beliefs and neural pathways at any time
Speaker 1: that you want to suit the new environment that you're in.
Speaker 1: And you've done it more times than most, I think,
Speaker 1: like moving countries and moving life structures and jobs. So
Speaker 1: to people now who are finding and I hate using
Speaker 1: this word, but who are finding a change of identity
Speaker 1: or a pivot or any kind of big life upheaval
Speaker 1: hard to adjust to. How have you done that? How
Speaker 1: have you changed? Like you know, the things that suit
Speaker 1: you well in a corporate structure, I probably don't suit
Speaker 1: you very well in a business structure. I found that
Speaker 1: leaving law, I had to change a lot of my
Speaker 1: fundamental approaches to things. But you can shed your old
Speaker 1: thinking patterns and find new ones. How have you done that?
Speaker 1: I don't know if I have good answer.
Speaker 2: I honestly i'd like to take a different stance on that.
Speaker 2: And this is an intellectual debate, but I think that
Speaker 2: innately people have like their set kind of moral compass
Speaker 2: and ethics and values, and I don't think that necessarily
Speaker 2: changes in terms of what you truly believe in is
Speaker 2: right or wrong and whatever that compass is. What I
Speaker 2: do think is that we're very malleable as humans and
Speaker 2: can change how you react and respond and grow from
Speaker 2: every single environment. But as long as you stay grounded
Speaker 2: and don't change what you fundamentally think is right and
Speaker 2: wrong and whatever that compass is, and whatever oils your joints,
Speaker 2: like whatever you think that is, like super important in
Speaker 2: life that needs to stay true and then all the
Speaker 2: other stuff can change. And you know, like flared genes
Speaker 2: versus skinny jeans or whatever it is, like homre versus
Speaker 2: going natural. Like I've had every hairstyle. I've had every style,
Speaker 2: like pair of genes, you know, contouring and lashes versus
Speaker 2: just a natural face. I go through phases, And I
Speaker 2: think you have to allow yourself to change, whether it's
Speaker 2: fashion or beauty or more important things in life, like
Speaker 2: you know, your career and your life choices. Just be
Speaker 2: true to yourself and really listen to your moral compass
Speaker 2: and understand what makes you tick and make sure joints
Speaker 2: more oiled up and ready to go and gets you
Speaker 2: excited and gets you out of bed every day, because
Speaker 2: that will never change. Everything else can change, like the
Speaker 2: wallpaper for example.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love that you use that phrase whatever
Speaker 1: oils your joints because that leads really nicely to the
Speaker 1: last part, which is your plata. And that is exactly that,
Speaker 1: that thing that's not related to your career and not
Speaker 1: related to productivity necessarily, but the thing that just makes
Speaker 1: you flipping excited to get out of bed, Like what
Speaker 1: are the things that make you forget the time that
Speaker 1: just makes you so happy and excited that even if
Speaker 1: it is a waste of time, you consider it worthy
Speaker 1: and that you make time for. And I feel like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it can't be related to beauty and it can't be
Speaker 1: related to entrepreneurship or tulips or flowers.
Speaker 2: This is so stereotypical as a new mum or a
Speaker 2: first mum, Like it's either it's yeah, it's doing stuff
Speaker 2: with my daughter. It's going to this like monkey town
Speaker 2: and going into the ball pit, which I'm a bit
Speaker 2: of a germophobe, and I think about all those kids
Speaker 2: who have got those balls in their mouth. They're like
Speaker 2: slobbering over it. But you know what, it doesn't matter
Speaker 2: because she's happy and doing stuff like that with her
Speaker 2: is so important and seeing her develop and grow through
Speaker 2: this business journey and then through like not having my family.
Speaker 2: It is quite isolating actually, because I work so many hours.
Speaker 2: I'm in front of my desk and I'm away from
Speaker 2: my family and I'm away from my friends. Most of
Speaker 2: my adult friends are, you know, in New York. My
Speaker 2: childhood friends are in Melbourne. I don't have any friends
Speaker 2: here because I have no time to make friends, and
Speaker 2: I don't speak the language, I don't have family here,
Speaker 2: so it is quite isolating. And so what gets me
Speaker 2: up in the morning isn't work. Actually it's Eva. It's
Speaker 2: because I want to be better for her and I
Speaker 2: want to have fun with her. And I'm so excited
Speaker 2: that you know, she can say purple now, and she
Speaker 2: can say yellow, and she says so many English you know,
Speaker 2: that's a huge thing.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, So does she speak Dutch?
Speaker 2: She does, she says, she says n which is no, But.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Nati a babe, I'm speaking Dutch. Did you not
Speaker 1: know that I meant I meant that to be a
Speaker 1: Dutch I wanted it to be an international podcast exactly.
Speaker 1: Second last question, Three interesting things about you that don't
Speaker 1: normally come up in conversation, and you skated over it
Speaker 1: in the first part, which I'm not going to allow
Speaker 1: you to do now. First one is that you are
Speaker 1: on an episode of House Hunters and you were sitting
Speaker 1: on a toilet. Amazing. Tell me more, tell me more
Speaker 1: about this. Do you know after I posted that video
Speaker 1: the other day about just a little snippet of your story,
Speaker 1: someone inboxed me and said, oh, I saw those guys
Speaker 1: on house.
Speaker 2: No, you're making that up.
Speaker 1: No, I promise you I'm not. I'll find the messge
Speaker 1: I'll send it to you after I was like, shut up.
Speaker 1: I met Kim sitting on a toilet.
Speaker 2: I actually didn't know people were that as with this show.
Speaker 2: My friend was a producer at the time, and she
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, I work on this show. She does
Speaker 2: reality TV and it's about couples who really, Hey, do
Speaker 2: you guys want to be in it? Because they like
Speaker 2: the whole contrast between like they call me fashion Easter,
Speaker 2: which I'm not, by the way, I've never worked in fashion.
Speaker 1: They called you in New York Fashion. Yeah, I was like,
Speaker 1: what is that? She's a corporate big wee betray me as.
Speaker 2: This like Devil wears Prada person. And then Hi is
Speaker 2: this humble country bumpkin. By the way, he's not a
Speaker 2: country bumpkin because the country like it takes an hour
Speaker 2: and a half to drive from border to border, and
Speaker 2: he's we leave fifteen minutes out of the city. So actually,
Speaker 2: in like in terms of Melbourne scale, it would be
Speaker 2: the equivalent is.
Speaker 1: A city boy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it'd be the equivalent of like Armadale that we.
Speaker 1: Live you know, yeah, so close right, So.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how Center's international was a thing? And yes, I
Speaker 2: was sitting on a toilet on I can't even call
Speaker 2: it national TV. It's international TV.
Speaker 1: Right, global, You're a global sensation. Yeah, I'm actually going
Speaker 1: to make that the title for your episode, Kim Babhast
Speaker 1: Reality TV star House Hunters.
Speaker 2: I love that. And so I need to tell you
Speaker 2: two more that people don't know about me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, yep, just random things.
Speaker 2: Random things. I went to ten different primary schools and
Speaker 2: three different high schools.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my, and did tell me there were a
Speaker 1: lot of schools. I was like, and dished the dirt.
Speaker 1: I need some dirt on Kim, and she was like,
Speaker 1: there were a lot of schools. Wow, I didn't know ten.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I mean my mom and my biological father
Speaker 2: didn't have a happy marriage, and we moved around a lot.
Speaker 2: And I'm so during podcast I mentioned my dad. I guess,
Speaker 2: you know, technically speaking, is my stepdad. I don't like
Speaker 2: to use that term because it doesn't honor the role
Speaker 2: that he's played in my life, either call him John
Speaker 2: or my dad. But we, yeah, unfortunately moved around a lot.
Speaker 2: So my childhood, I touched on it before in terms
Speaker 2: of being shyer and more introverted and sticking to my
Speaker 2: mum like Lou. But there was a reason because our
Speaker 2: life wasn't so stable and things were easy for us.
Speaker 2: We had quite a difficult time in that period of
Speaker 2: my life, and I think that has really created the
Speaker 2: person that I am now because I am more well
Speaker 2: rounded in terms of making friends and being adapting to
Speaker 2: change easily. I can make friends quickly when I have
Speaker 2: time to get out of the house, and it's made
Speaker 2: me grounded and rooted in what's important as well, and
Speaker 2: to me, family is the most important. And things change.
Speaker 2: Schools change, jobs change, people change, everything changes, but what
Speaker 2: stays true is you know your family and the people
Speaker 2: that you love, and that that kind of security banket
Speaker 2: that I have. And my mum is my rock. So yeah,
Speaker 2: that's kind of another fact. And then she's great. She's
Speaker 2: just she loves cooking, So anytime you guys want to
Speaker 2: go down there after lockdown, please go down there and
Speaker 2: eat food. Also, she didn't know that An was Vietnamese
Speaker 2: as well, and so she was serving Vietnamese food to
Speaker 2: ad like like it was exotic cuisine. And she's like
Speaker 2: oh I have this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I live with like twelve Vietnamese people in my house,
Speaker 1: including my grandma who only left Vietnam for the first
Speaker 1: time last year.
Speaker 2: And now is it international TV sensation?
Speaker 1: International TV sensation. She's so famous?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so she needs that headline.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, you need that headline. You guys could get
Speaker 1: together and chat all the reality TV stuff.
Speaker 2: Me and Auntie Judy.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: And the third thing, I am really really uncoordinated and
Speaker 2: bad at sports and bad it anything fit Yep, I'm not. Like.
Speaker 2: I see you and Nick working out and running and
Speaker 2: doing the gym stuff, and Nick with his top off
Speaker 2: all the time, and I'm like, why do they want
Speaker 2: to do that?
Speaker 1: Why that doesn't mean that he's doing anything. He can
Speaker 1: just take it off and pretend that he went to
Speaker 1: the gym. It doesn't mean he actually worked out.
Speaker 2: So I preach clean beauty and I preach a sustainable lifestyle.
Speaker 2: But my lifestyle should be more sustainable because I probably
Speaker 2: need to eat better and I probably need to work out.
Speaker 2: Like period, I don't work out at all, and it's
Speaker 2: a problem. I don't like sweating. I like have this,
Speaker 2: Like I just I'm allergic to sweating. There you go.
Speaker 2: That's the third fun fact. I'm allergic to sweating.
Speaker 1: I love it. That's a great excuse. I've never heard
Speaker 1: that one. Very like I said, you'll see a problem,
Speaker 1: you'll make a very creative solution. I am allergic to
Speaker 1: exercise because I'm allergic to it's my skin problem. What
Speaker 1: can I say exactly?
Speaker 2: He makes me chee nice?
Speaker 1: It's my skin problem. Okay, don't discriminate. Very last question,
Speaker 1: my love, what is your favorite quote?
Speaker 2: Oh? You got me stumped. Now I'm going to go
Speaker 2: back to where there's a will, there's a way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so you. I love that and I love that.
Speaker 1: Thank you, yeah much.
Speaker 2: I think I think that's my favorite quote because it's
Speaker 2: been it's been a tough up and down journey my life,
Speaker 2: and it's still I'm not dead, obviously.
Speaker 1: Mostly up.
Speaker 2: I've always had passion, enthusiasm and a spirit for life,
Speaker 2: and I always knew that I would have what my
Speaker 2: vision of a picture of success is, and I'm so
Speaker 2: happy that I've been able to achieve that. I'm sure
Speaker 2: that picture will change as I get older, but I
Speaker 2: have a beautiful daughter and a loving husband, and I'm
Speaker 2: really proud to say that I'm an entrepreneur.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, and you have a work husband.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I feel like he speaks to you more than he
Speaker 1: speaks to me.
Speaker 2: He says that all the time. He's like, Sarah's in
Speaker 2: a next room, I haven't spoken to her all day,
Speaker 2: but I'm speaking to you. And because of the time difference,
Speaker 2: I speak to him like later night and early in
Speaker 2: the morning as well, Like he's in bed texting me,
Speaker 2: by the way.
Speaker 1: Like he's always on his phone. He's like, it's Kim.
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, it's fine. It's either Kim or John,
Speaker 1: Like either one, it's fine.
Speaker 2: It's good that heine is not a jealous man, because
Speaker 2: every time Nick calls me, he's WhatsApp profile picture comes up,
Speaker 2: and you know, he's half naked.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, he definitely doesn't have a top one.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, sorry, half naked could be the other yeah,
Speaker 2: the top half half. And Hein's like, like, you know,
Speaker 2: inditionally when we started working with each other's like, who
Speaker 2: is this topless guy that he's not calling you later
Speaker 2: at night?
Speaker 1: Oh my god? I love it. Well, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for joining Lovely. This was so fascinating. I didn't
Speaker 1: know half of that, and you just have such an
Speaker 1: amazing story and are so inspiring and I can't wait
Speaker 1: to see how the rest everything on Rebels.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Sarah, Thank you for the opportunity, super humbling experience.
Speaker 2: Like obviously, I know how amazing your guests have been,
Speaker 2: like the cast that you've had your on your TV show. No, honestly,
Speaker 2: it's just been a wonderful experience and getting to know
Speaker 2: you and Nick virtually. You know, I've only met Nick
Speaker 2: twice in real life. I know, how crazy is that
Speaker 2: all the time you're like family. Yeah, we met on
Speaker 2: set for a client like job and then we just
Speaker 2: got talking and then he the first thing he gave
Speaker 2: me was the cesar Ya Helena was quote yeah, and
Speaker 2: he's so proud. He like opened up his boot and
Speaker 2: he's like, wait before you go, I want to give
Speaker 2: you this. This is from my wife. And he told
Speaker 2: me the whole story.
Speaker 1: My god, He's like.
Speaker 2: Your best champion, your best cheerleader. You guys are great
Speaker 2: and I'm so grateful for you friendship and support and
Speaker 2: everything that you guys do for us.
Speaker 1: Oh, we love you. Oh and quickly, of course, where
Speaker 1: can we get bloom effects? Most importantly.
Speaker 2: Oh well, if you're Australian hot off the press, we've
Speaker 2: just launched a look fantastic dot com dot AU and
Speaker 2: there's a secret code, so if you use twenty bloom
Speaker 2: you get twenty percent off. But if you're not in
Speaker 2: Australia anywhere else in the world, you can go to
Speaker 2: bloom Effects dot com and type in the same code,
Speaker 2: which is twenty bloom, and you'll get twenty percent off
Speaker 2: thanks to Nick.
Speaker 1: That sounds like you've said that before once or twice.
Speaker 2: The thanks to Nick part is because he does all
Speaker 2: the coding, so he mix the codes.
Speaker 1: I was posting the other day, I was like, can
Speaker 1: you just freaking make the code already? I did to
Speaker 1: post this story. Oh thank you so much, lovely bye. Well,
Speaker 1: if you thought I was biased towards Bloom Effects before
Speaker 1: this episode, I hope you can see now why I'd
Speaker 1: objectively be obsessed with the brand and it's depth and philosophy,
Speaker 1: regardless with a woman like these added helm and a
Speaker 1: story like this behind its founding, even without the incredible
Speaker 1: results achieved from the delicious jewel of nectar, what is
Speaker 1: not to love? I hope you enjoyed hearing from Kim
Speaker 1: and in a time when we can't travel. I also
Speaker 1: feel like I got a little taste of New York
Speaker 1: again at Amsterdam while we chatted away. As always, we
Speaker 1: would love you to share any takeaways or AHA moments
Speaker 1: of your own, tagging at Kidney van Hasta and myself,
Speaker 1: and of course to give bloom Effects a try. All
Speaker 1: the details are repeated in the show notes for you.
Speaker 1: I hope you're all having a wonderful week and are
Speaker 1: seizing your ya