Speaker 1: Hello, beautiful people.
Speaker 2: Another week, another re release and another intro recorded from
Speaker 2: my phone because we are in Morocco. You might have
Speaker 2: heard that we are taking two weeks off recording because
Speaker 2: we've been away and she's also overseas, and our incredible
Speaker 2: audio editor has gone away to get married and have
Speaker 2: his wonderful honeymoon.
Speaker 3: He very much deserves a break.
Speaker 2: So we thought these days we are taking a much
Speaker 2: gendler approach on ourselves, and instead of creating a lot
Speaker 2: of n ATA, we would just re release some episodes
Speaker 2: and then come back with a bang.
Speaker 1: We will be.
Speaker 2: Back with some incredible guests, one of which is Tony Lodge,
Speaker 2: one of our very favorite people. So that will be
Speaker 2: coming to your ears soon. But for now, enjoy this
Speaker 2: re release and thank you so much for your patience.
Speaker 2: Hope you're all seizing your ya.
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the skills about being an
Speaker 1: adult is accepting that you might not have done it
Speaker 1: the right way, or that there could be a better way.
Speaker 1: I did think that in my headspace that I'd given
Speaker 1: everything to Emma Wiggle, and I grew so so much
Speaker 1: in that role that yes, I felt ready to then
Speaker 1: grow into another version of me.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Sees the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy
Speaker 2: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what
Speaker 2: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but
Speaker 2: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than
Speaker 2: one way. So this is a platform to hear and
Speaker 2: explore the stories of those who found lives they adore, the.
Speaker 3: Good, bad and ugly.
Speaker 2: The best and worst day will bear all the facets
Speaker 2: of seizing your yay. I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful
Speaker 2: of Sarah, a lawyer turned fu entrepreneur who swapped the
Speaker 2: suits and heels to co found matcha Maiden and matcha
Speaker 2: Milk Bar.
Speaker 3: Sees the Ya is a series.
Speaker 2: Of conversations on finding a life you love and exploring
Speaker 2: the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way.
Speaker 2: There aren't many things that evoke more yay than the Wiggles,
Speaker 2: especially a sunshine colored one. She has now officially hung
Speaker 2: up per yellow wiggle shoes. Emma what can still radiates
Speaker 2: like a sunbeam and we are so lucky to have
Speaker 2: her here today. As always, it was such a delight
Speaker 2: to trace back to a younger Emma who never could
Speaker 2: have dreamed of where she'd end up and with whom
Speaker 2: I have an earlier very intense dancers life in common.
Speaker 2: You might have guessed that her love for the arts
Speaker 2: has been lifelong, but you might not know that Emma
Speaker 2: is also a skilled filmmaker, has been in Bollywood films
Speaker 2: one Miss Granny Smith Apples once upon a Time and
Speaker 2: learned Oslan all before becoming the first ever female Wiggle.
Speaker 2: Now she is doing some incredible work with artistic integrations
Speaker 2: of sign language through her PhD, which you will hear
Speaker 2: all about in the episode Is There Anything This Woman
Speaker 2: Can't Do? Emma is also stepping into some beautiful frocks
Speaker 2: as an ambassador for Froctober this month, and I've popped
Speaker 2: some links in the show notes to this year's amazing
Speaker 2: campaign with the OCRF. Just a little ps before we start,
Speaker 2: Before any fellow dancers listening, it's likely that some of
Speaker 2: you are also part of the Itty Biddy Titty Committee
Speaker 2: along with me the President. And I'm reminded so much
Speaker 2: lately of how much better you feel moving your body
Speaker 2: with the right crop, But how hard is it to
Speaker 2: find fluttering ones that have a little bit of padding
Speaker 2: like So we've got a little.
Speaker 3: Something going on.
Speaker 1: It's just such an ata.
Speaker 2: But I've been road testing some from Burley on behalf
Speaker 2: of the neighborhood and have been sharing some reflections on
Speaker 2: movement and mental health, along with my top picks on
Speaker 2: TikTok and social media. So those are linked in the
Speaker 2: show notes for anyone interested. I have done the research
Speaker 2: for us.
Speaker 1: You're welcome.
Speaker 2: In the meantime, I hope you enjoy this episode. Emma
Speaker 2: is such a ray of sunshine, and I hope she
Speaker 2: brings a smile to your face as much as she
Speaker 2: did to mine. Emma, welcome to seize thea.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2: I have followed you for the longest time, so I'm
Speaker 2: having a minor slash major fangirl moment, which I am
Speaker 2: never very cool about keeping inside my body.
Speaker 3: So it's so lovely to meet you.
Speaker 1: Oh this is so wonderful. I mean, next time, we'll
Speaker 1: probably have to have a tea party, like face to
Speaker 1: face so that we can really embrace the opportunity to
Speaker 1: see each other.
Speaker 2: I feel like we're already best friends forever. The fact
Speaker 2: that you said tea party and not like go out
Speaker 2: for a.
Speaker 1: Bevy Oh no, I don't drink.
Speaker 3: I've got a tea.
Speaker 1: Oh she's got a tea, Yes, I can see that. No,
Speaker 1: I have a tea too, but I don't drink, so
Speaker 1: I'm always inviting people for tea and they always are
Speaker 1: confused by that.
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't drink for seven years, so I feel
Speaker 2: like we definitely need to talk about that at some point.
Speaker 2: But before we kick off, I love to start by
Speaker 2: asking everyone just a little icebreaker, particularly because most of
Speaker 2: the country, if not the world, will have known you
Speaker 2: as one of the very iconic Wiggles, which only very
Speaker 2: few people in the world have been endowed with such
Speaker 2: a title, and it's very easy to assume it's all
Speaker 2: glamorous and beautiful and polished. But I'd like to ask,
Speaker 2: what's something really normal about you or down to worth
Speaker 2: or relatable. What's something that reminds us you're just a
Speaker 2: normal person.
Speaker 1: Oh well, I get up every day quite early to
Speaker 1: go and feed my goats. You have goats, yeah, and
Speaker 1: I've just moved to the country to give them a
Speaker 1: better opportunity of having more land to be on. So
Speaker 1: me in my pajamas, getting my boots on, gum boots,
Speaker 1: my raincoats, because it's very rainy where we live, and
Speaker 1: then driving down the road because currently we don't have
Speaker 1: a fence at home. So my goats are being housed
Speaker 1: at a wildlife sanctuary and I go and visit them
Speaker 1: every morning and feed all the animals on the sanctuary.
Speaker 1: So there are twenty rescue goats, there's ten rescue sheep,
Speaker 1: a rescue pig, wallabies and wombats.
Speaker 2: It's obviously very excited about this.
Speaker 3: Like it, I can't believe there are rescue goats.
Speaker 1: This is amazing. I mean, it's amazing how many animals
Speaker 1: are either ditched on the side of the road or injured.
Speaker 1: And I've I've met this beautiful lady in the country
Speaker 1: who's from Germany and has been living in Australia for
Speaker 1: over seventeen years and has created the most incredible wildlife
Speaker 1: sanctuary to care for these animals.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I mean, talk about seizing the ya.
Speaker 2: One of my biggest yeas and ultimate dream I still
Speaker 2: believe it's possible, is to have a wildlife sanctuary, but specifically,
Speaker 2: like mine's a bit niche a golden retriever sanctuary where
Speaker 2: anyone who's having a bad day can just come and
Speaker 2: roll around in fields of golden retrievers.
Speaker 1: You have nailed it. Can it be called fields of
Speaker 1: gold and Retrievers?
Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely it can.
Speaker 1: I think your golden retriever needs to be the icon
Speaker 1: of like the emblem of the sanctuary, and.
Speaker 2: They'll be merchandise, and they'll be all sorts of things.
Speaker 2: I think we're onto something here. It sounds like a
Speaker 2: potential collab for the f.
Speaker 1: I'm ready, I'm so ready.
Speaker 2: Well, the first section of the show is my personal favorite,
Speaker 2: and it's just tracing back through all of the dot
Speaker 2: points on your journey to get to where you are today,
Speaker 2: including via adopted goats and all of the different steps
Speaker 2: that that involves. But mainly because, as I mentioned before,
Speaker 2: often the profile or the chapter when people do kind
Speaker 2: of have a public profile, the chapter of your life
Speaker 2: that people walk in on and often meet you in
Speaker 2: seems like it was smooth, seems like the dots connect
Speaker 2: in hindsight, so it often seems like you always knew
Speaker 2: what you wanted to be, or that it was a
Speaker 2: you know, an overnight success, which it never is. So
Speaker 2: I like to trace back to all the chapters that
Speaker 2: don't really get as much airtime and that maybe you
Speaker 2: weren't a straightforward and that had a bit of angst
Speaker 2: or confusion.
Speaker 3: About what your pathway was.
Speaker 2: So take us back to younger Emma, we have very
Speaker 2: early ballet years in common. I heard you started when
Speaker 2: you were four?
Speaker 1: I did, Is that the same age as you? Yeah? See,
Speaker 1: I think I was a bit late to the party,
Speaker 1: to be honest, you.
Speaker 3: Were totally over the hill.
Speaker 1: I mean, now, a lot of children start dancing at two,
Speaker 1: so four to me sounds quite late, but you know,
Speaker 1: better late than ever, you know, still in the early years.
Speaker 1: And I really was intending to start Irish dancing first,
Speaker 1: being very very excited about what I'd seen on TV
Speaker 1: and predominantly watching The Wiggles as a child in my
Speaker 1: preschool years, seeing these amazing dances jumping around everywhere with bouncy,
Speaker 1: curly hair, and I was like, that is me. And
Speaker 1: so apparently I persuaded my mom to take me, and
Speaker 1: she my mom doesn't really have any dance knowledge, nothing zero,
Speaker 1: so she just toddled me on to the dance school
Speaker 1: and the teacher at the time said that she felt
Speaker 1: that I was too young and that I should actually
Speaker 1: start ballet first, and hence why I started bali and
Speaker 1: then a year later I joined Irish dancing and I've
Speaker 1: been doing both ever since.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, they same. My mom didn't know anything
Speaker 2: about it either, and I feel like there were so
Speaker 2: many young dancers who had amazing stage mines, like do
Speaker 2: their hair and know how to sew the costumes, and
Speaker 2: my mom was just clueless. And I was the one
Speaker 2: being a stage bum to myself like well, yeah, just
Speaker 2: let me do it, I'll do it better, and doing
Speaker 2: my own hair and everything.
Speaker 1: I was exactly that child and my mum. Because Irish
Speaker 1: dancing has, I don't know, it's quite strange, a very
Speaker 1: big tradition of curly hair, to the point where now
Speaker 1: everybody that competes wear's curly hair wigs. Really yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, nobody's hair in an Irish dancing competition is real.
Speaker 1: So when I was young though, about five six seven, competing,
Speaker 1: we all had our natural hair, but my friends and
Speaker 1: other people competing would go to school the whole two
Speaker 1: days before the weekend with their hair and curlers.
Speaker 2: I did, like like those tide ones, like the tide ones.
Speaker 1: I was the only person that didn't have my hair
Speaker 1: in curlers. Because my hair is naturally very curly, and
Speaker 1: so my mom and I would arrive and she'd go,
Speaker 1: what should we do to make it look like we've
Speaker 1: been curling your hair all night? And she would like
Speaker 1: pretend to scrunch it be and like pretend to take
Speaker 1: out a curler that we borrowed from a friend. But
Speaker 1: I never had curlers, And so by the time it
Speaker 1: was more trendy to wear a certain type of curl,
Speaker 1: because that's what would happen over the years, different types
Speaker 1: of wigs became on brand or in trend. Should I say,
Speaker 1: we're in fashion and my curl my natural hair, right,
Speaker 1: it wasn't trendy. So I wore very untrendy hair for
Speaker 1: competitions for a few years, and then I said to mom,
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, but I need to wear a wig.
Speaker 1: She was devastated, but also grateful.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, So you learn something new every time
Speaker 2: I do an episode. I learned something new about a
Speaker 2: niche community that just makes me feel like I've entered
Speaker 2: this whole other world. And I can't I believe that, Like,
Speaker 2: who knew that even curly haired people, Yeah, like naturally
Speaker 2: curly head people, that's not enough we need wig curls.
Speaker 1: It's also you know, and I can understand it now,
Speaker 1: you know, from and also from wearing a week during
Speaker 1: my time at the Wiggles to save my hair and
Speaker 1: to keep it continuous for such a long time doing
Speaker 1: Irish dancing and jumping around for a minute and a half.
Speaker 1: Your hair doesn't come back from that.
Speaker 3: Just no bouncing back.
Speaker 1: There's no bouncing back. The bounce has to be unrealistic
Speaker 1: for it to be real. Energy.
Speaker 2: Well, one of the things I love to talk about
Speaker 2: with people who are in careers in the arts is
Speaker 2: the fact that a lot of us begin our earlier
Speaker 2: years dancing, particularly young girls, we often go into ballet
Speaker 2: and I was one of the few who actually took it.
Speaker 2: I mean, my Taybe personality thought that I was professional
Speaker 2: from the time I was like five and a half.
Speaker 2: But I took it very seriously and ended up at
Speaker 2: Australian Ballet for quite a few years.
Speaker 1: What.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So when I was reading about you going to
Speaker 2: the McDonald College, I.
Speaker 3: Was like, we used to compete against you guys.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Were you at the school?
Speaker 2: Whether we're born in the same year, so I feel
Speaker 2: like we might have don't.
Speaker 1: Maybe, oh no, I wasn't good enough. I wanted to be.
Speaker 1: It was my dream, but I wasn't. My legs weren't
Speaker 1: turned out enough, And so I went to Irish dancing
Speaker 1: because I could bang a lot and make good rhythms.
Speaker 1: That was basically it.
Speaker 2: But what I think is really interesting is that for
Speaker 2: so many of us, even for me it was a
Speaker 2: little bit later, but a lot of us end up
Speaker 2: not pursuing that skill, whether it's dance or song or
Speaker 2: musical instruments or whatever it is as a career because
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of societal pressure to find
Speaker 2: something really stable and ongoing, or you know, I think
Speaker 2: there's a lot of dissuasion because it's so competitive, because
Speaker 2: not many people could make it to the top.
Speaker 3: There's so few roles.
Speaker 2: And it's interesting what so many people tell their story,
Speaker 2: talk about being passionate about something when they were younger
Speaker 2: and then letting it drop away because societal pressure or
Speaker 2: external pressure or even internal pressure about going to UNI
Speaker 2: or doing the traditional thing. Did you ever feel that
Speaker 2: pressure and how did you push through it to keep
Speaker 2: your love of the arts alive.
Speaker 1: I think my personality like yours, and this is why
Speaker 1: we're now besties. Is that I never ever thought that
Speaker 1: I would do anything but dance, and dance was everything
Speaker 1: in my head. I love it. I never even dreamed
Speaker 1: of doing something. I've never even opened my mind up
Speaker 1: to other things. And whilst my dad really had such
Speaker 1: a big history of rallying cars and doing navigating in
Speaker 1: rally races, and I would go on the weekends with
Speaker 1: him and do precision driving and I loved it, I
Speaker 1: never stuck with her because I was always going back
Speaker 1: to dance. And I think going to the Donald College
Speaker 1: and being able to do performing arts every single day,
Speaker 1: that was a dream as a teenager. I was like,
Speaker 1: this is the best thing ever. And so I never
Speaker 1: really thought anything about it until duh, I had an
Speaker 1: injury and then everything changed. Everything changed. So whilst it
Speaker 1: might look like I continued to do what I really
Speaker 1: loved to do, I feel like there's been so many
Speaker 1: different pathways. Because I intended on being a premium ballerina,
Speaker 1: I never even got there. That never even happened.
Speaker 3: Wow, it's funny.
Speaker 2: The quote that I often say on the show when
Speaker 2: we're doing this sort of steps up the staircase exercise
Speaker 2: is that things almost never turn out how you plan them,
Speaker 2: but often they turn out better, and it's usually how
Speaker 2: they were supposed to happen. You just didn't realize at
Speaker 2: the time exactly how did you redirect? Was it the
Speaker 2: injury that then sort of was that sliding doors moment
Speaker 2: of I have to go sideways or I have to
Speaker 2: choose something else.
Speaker 1: I was accepted into the school with a ballet scholarship,
Speaker 1: and hence why I was just I just loved ballet.
Speaker 1: I was so excited. I was doing my exams and
Speaker 1: doing it every single day of the week. And then
Speaker 1: I came back on the first day of term two
Speaker 1: in year eight and I'll never forget it, and the
Speaker 1: teacher was like, you know, take it easy, don't go
Speaker 1: too crazy. And we had to do I guess for
Speaker 1: simple purposes, basically a turning jump in the air, and
Speaker 1: the teacher was like, you can try a double, but
Speaker 1: don't you know, if you don't feel comfortable, don't do it.
Speaker 1: Of course, I went to try for the double and
Speaker 1: landed on the outside of my foot and snapped the
Speaker 1: ligament across my oh to which she heard the sound.
Speaker 1: The teacher from the other side of the room, which
Speaker 1: was about ten meters away, and then I got up
Speaker 1: and I was like, no, there's no problem at all,
Speaker 1: because I didn't want to admit that I'd stuffed it up. Anyway,
Speaker 1: about five seconds later, I was on the floor and
Speaker 1: had to be taken to hospital. So at that point
Speaker 1: my dreams of dancing on point were gone, and I
Speaker 1: was devastated, and I, you know, there was a whole
Speaker 1: reason why I was going to the school and ballet
Speaker 1: and all this drama. So luckily the school was like,
Speaker 1: you don't have to worry because we've got dance stream
Speaker 1: next door and you can try jazz. And I was
Speaker 1: like jazz. What. I'm like, I'm not really that jazzy.
Speaker 3: What is this nonsense you speak of?
Speaker 1: What is this tap thing? And because I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm just an Irish dancer and they were like, no,
Speaker 1: there's tap and I was like me, like, I've tried
Speaker 1: it before, but you know, I'm it's not my forte,
Speaker 1: but I'll give it a go. And so I was
Speaker 1: basically relocated to the studio next door, which obviously doesn't
Speaker 1: sound like a big deal, but then I met an
Speaker 1: entire world of teachers, friends, people, classmates, and I just
Speaker 1: fell in love with commercial dance. So my ballet, even
Speaker 1: though it's been there forever, ended up being secondary to
Speaker 1: my primary love, which ended up being jazz, and I
Speaker 1: was obsessed and hip hop. I was just obsessed at school, obsessed.
Speaker 2: I love this so much because even within a life pathway,
Speaker 2: even within dance, Like people outside of dance probably don't
Speaker 2: understand how dramatic the difference is, but even within that,
Speaker 2: you still often set yourself on this one very rigid
Speaker 2: pathway and then something will just happen that redirects you
Speaker 2: to another whole area. And like, without the injury, even
Speaker 2: though I'm sure at the time it felt like the
Speaker 2: end of your life, you would never have known that
Speaker 2: jazz and commercial dance was your thing. Like, how do
Speaker 2: you unless you try different things, you don't know what
Speaker 2: you like and what you don't like. But ballerinas are
Speaker 2: very fixated. I'm like, I will not do any other discipline.
Speaker 2: But I love that it was an injury that showed
Speaker 2: you what the rest of your.
Speaker 3: Life could be.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm so grateful for the challenges that were presented
Speaker 1: to me, not just in class, but in terms of
Speaker 1: body and how your body works and reacts to those
Speaker 1: kinds of situations ended up being another point of sliding
Speaker 1: doors when I had another injury, and I'd never had
Speaker 1: any injuries ror to this time, but I was way
Speaker 1: too enthusiastic, like, way too enthusiastic with everything and just
Speaker 1: wanted to do my best at all times. So I
Speaker 1: really threw myself in there.
Speaker 3: Literally, that sounds really foreign to me.
Speaker 1: That's really weird.
Speaker 3: I any of those concepts.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, don't, I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, in year ten, I had another injury and
Speaker 1: it was much more dramatic and significant, and I ended
Speaker 1: up really hurting my back badly and I was dropped
Speaker 1: in a lift and you know it just I didn't
Speaker 1: recover well, oh my god, I actually not recovered so
Speaker 1: currently and since that day, I have wedge compressions between
Speaker 1: three of my vertebrae and my spine and I never
Speaker 1: ever gained flexibility again in that region of my spine,
Speaker 1: which means I can't do an arabesque. I find it
Speaker 1: very difficult to do anything with my leg behind me,
Speaker 1: and so hence why Irish dancing ended up being really
Speaker 1: useful because it's only the front and you know, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: I lost that dream. So even though I can watch
Speaker 1: ballet and my brain is just so completely embroiled in
Speaker 1: what everyone's doing and I can understand it technically in
Speaker 1: my brain, my body cannot perform it. That really took
Speaker 1: a long time, and that when I was in year ten.
Speaker 1: I then didn't do any of the dancing at school, nothing,
Speaker 1: because I was so injured and it was really difficult.
Speaker 1: So the school were trying to make sure that I
Speaker 1: still had positive spirits, and they moved me to the
Speaker 1: kindergarten room to read stories to kindergarden goshu and okay.
Speaker 3: And who knew how useful that would become.
Speaker 1: No, exactly, So I spent half the time with kindie
Speaker 1: or prep, and then half the time with my art teacher,
Speaker 1: who was also like, come here, I will protect you.
Speaker 1: And she was like, this is our media room and
Speaker 1: we had those old school Mac computers, computers that were
Speaker 1: colored on the back, you know, those massive One was red,
Speaker 1: one's yellow. Yeah, So that room I'd never even been in,
Speaker 1: and she was like, why don't you set yourself in here?
Speaker 1: There's some really cool programs on the computer. And at
Speaker 1: that point I didn't know anything about filming. Or video
Speaker 1: or editing or nothing, and I just ended up falling
Speaker 1: in love with Final Cut Pro and ended up editing
Speaker 1: all films for the school. For all of my projects,
Speaker 1: I switched every performance out for a video because I
Speaker 1: couldn't dance Wow, And I ended up being in love
Speaker 1: with video editing. And again I would never have picked it. Never.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: The list in itself is so cool, like the things
Speaker 2: that you end up falling into, and also that people
Speaker 2: who meet you now would have no idea that you
Speaker 2: were like such a gun at Final Cut Pro, like
Speaker 2: of all things. But then also when I was reading
Speaker 2: your bio, I was like, okay, but also Bollywood movies,
Speaker 2: and then you became its Grannie Smith Apple and then
Speaker 2: you learn Osland, like how a do all those things happen?
Speaker 2: But b like one of the things as well, with
Speaker 2: dance qualifications or you know, anything in the arts, it's
Speaker 2: really hard to then know. It's it's hard anyway to
Speaker 2: figure out what your interests translate to in terms of
Speaker 2: a job, but when your skill is in the arts,
Speaker 2: I think it's even harder because it's so broad. It
Speaker 2: could be so many different things and so many different disciplines.
Speaker 2: How do you become their first female Wiggle?
Speaker 3: Like, how does that even exactly?
Speaker 1: I feel something that it feels like it just doesn't
Speaker 1: feel real. And when you were speaking before about you know,
Speaker 1: the chapter that people know you for, interestingly, the chapter
Speaker 1: of being the first female Wiggle was a chapter I
Speaker 1: would never have imagined and it was so out of
Speaker 1: the blue because no woman had ever been a Wiggle before.
Speaker 1: And so when I had finished UNI, I hadn't actually finished.
Speaker 1: I was still there and trying to do media arts
Speaker 1: at UTS because my video editing at high school ended
Speaker 1: up helping me get there, and I went to film school,
Speaker 1: and you know, just was going on the normal trajectory
Speaker 1: of going to UNI because there wasn't enough dance work,
Speaker 1: but still auditioning for everything, Like I auditioned for every musical,
Speaker 1: every show. I got nothing. No, I was always rejected
Speaker 1: or I got to a point where I was down
Speaker 1: to the last two a few times for Wicked and
Speaker 1: Cat same and it was you know, I'd get really
Speaker 1: close because I'd go in as a dancer, not as
Speaker 1: a singer because it wasn't my training and I never
Speaker 1: really did any of that, And then i'd always get
Speaker 1: to have to sing, like get to the singing part,
Speaker 1: and the lady of that to me, She's like, well,
Speaker 1: clearly you're not a singer, and I said yeah right,
Speaker 1: and she goes, why haven't you been doing singing lessons?
Speaker 1: And I was like, I'll try and do that, and
Speaker 1: then I left and I was like, I couldn't afford it.
Speaker 1: I couldn't afford a private singing lesson whilst I was
Speaker 1: at UNI. So then a few weeks later, I went
Speaker 1: to audition again. I think it must have been for
Speaker 1: hairspray or something, and she was on the same panel
Speaker 1: and she saw me again, and then I walked in
Speaker 1: there and she goes, don't lie to me. You haven't
Speaker 1: done a singing lesson since I've seen you last time.
Speaker 1: And I was like, no, I haven't. She goes get out,
Speaker 1: and I was okay, I'm not leaving. So at that
Speaker 1: point it was very clear to me that all of
Speaker 1: my friends that i'd been to dance school with, or
Speaker 1: I went to full time dance as well, and I
Speaker 1: was doing all the same things that everyone else was doing.
Speaker 1: That was trying to audition your little heart out to
Speaker 1: try and get a show. I just it wasn't a
Speaker 1: love for me as in I was always nervous as
Speaker 1: soon as it came to the singing. I was like,
Speaker 1: this is stressful. And I naturally then fell back into
Speaker 1: film editing, and at the time I had my own
Speaker 1: production company, and I was filming lots of different things
Speaker 1: for different people. It was weddings or dance concerts or
Speaker 1: show reels, and so that ended up being a huge
Speaker 1: part of my life. And I just happened to stumble
Speaker 1: across the Wiggles audition which asked very specifically for a
Speaker 1: ballet dancing fairy, and I was like, that is me.
Speaker 1: And I went to the audition and got it. So
Speaker 1: it was out of the blue, and it wasn't, you know,
Speaker 1: an arduous process. I was there for the whole day,
Speaker 1: which was a long time, but you know, compared to
Speaker 1: some of the other auditions we were doing for Disney
Speaker 1: and you know, for the other big musical companies, it
Speaker 1: was relatively smooth that audition process.
Speaker 3: WHOA, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: I had no idea that you had kind of moved
Speaker 2: not away from the arts, but that you were doing
Speaker 2: a whole different career at the same time as auditioning,
Speaker 2: but not really like you were already working in musical
Speaker 2: theater or anything, and then just this audition just came
Speaker 2: up and then bang, first female Wiggle.
Speaker 1: Well it's so strange because I think even when myself
Speaker 1: and Locke and Simon had become this new lineup of
Speaker 1: the Wiggles back in twenty thirteen, a lot of people
Speaker 1: had assumed that the three of us had auditioned for
Speaker 1: those roles. And it was an interesting realization not just
Speaker 1: for us but for the audience that no, we just
Speaker 1: happened to be part of the company in different roles,
Speaker 1: all playing different characters. I toured with Locky for a
Speaker 1: bit at the beginning, then I toured with Simon and
Speaker 1: Lockie wasn't on that tour, and then all three of
Speaker 1: us were on the tour, but as different roles dancers, musicians,
Speaker 1: you know, circus acrobats, and then we were chosen to
Speaker 1: be a Wiggle and it was we were offered, we
Speaker 1: were invited, and that was a really really special opportunity.
Speaker 1: And again because we weren't thinking that we were being watched.
Speaker 1: You know, obviously the company was watching, but we were
Speaker 1: going about our general everyday life of being a performer
Speaker 1: on show. That just felt bigger than life, and I
Speaker 1: never imagined that I would ever even be there as
Speaker 1: a Wiggly Dancer in the first place. So I was stop.
Speaker 3: Wiggly Dancer.
Speaker 1: I know it's a good title. It's a good title.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so good.
Speaker 2: The Wiggles alone, like that title you were a Wiggle,
Speaker 2: like Wiggle in the singular is the cutest thing I've
Speaker 2: ever heard.
Speaker 3: In my entire life.
Speaker 2: But like, the Wiggles are absolutely iconic, and as you mentioned,
Speaker 2: you grew up watching them. We all grew up watching them.
Speaker 2: Generations have grown up with the Wiggles as such a
Speaker 2: big part of their life, and it's I can't even
Speaker 2: imagine how weird it would be to then be like,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I am one of these. For the
Speaker 2: youth of Australia. This is so wild And it lasted
Speaker 2: like nearly ten years. That was ten years ago in
Speaker 2: twenty twelve, when you like got invited to become a Wiggle.
Speaker 2: So I feel like we all know the Wiggles, we
Speaker 2: all have like fond memories. But in terms of like
Speaker 2: the behind the scenes of being a I feel like
Speaker 2: that's the stuff that most of us would probably have
Speaker 2: absolutely no clue about. Can you give us some of
Speaker 2: the highlights of like the behind the scenes, Like what
Speaker 2: is it like, especially being the first female and having
Speaker 2: no clear model of what a female wiggle looks like?
Speaker 2: Like how were those nine years? Like that's a huge question,
Speaker 2: I know, but yeah.
Speaker 3: I think what was wiggle life like?
Speaker 1: I mean, it was amazing. It has been the most
Speaker 1: amazing chapter of my life. And it is weird to
Speaker 1: talk about that my entire twenties was spent wiggling. So
Speaker 1: for me, it's almost like going to university, like a
Speaker 1: different one. So you've been to one and then another
Speaker 1: one maybe, and then you go to another one. You're like,
Speaker 1: I'm going to do this degree, and then you're there
Speaker 1: for ten years, and it's like it feels like you're
Speaker 1: there with your schoolmates and you've all been through the
Speaker 1: same situations and challenges and we've traveled the world together
Speaker 1: and we've made these close friendships. And so that particular
Speaker 1: chapter is so dear to me. And I learned things
Speaker 1: that I never thought that I would do, like sing
Speaker 1: in front of a lot of people and spared the
Speaker 1: begems out of me. And I am still so grateful
Speaker 1: for everything that everybody imparted on me and in particular Lockie,
Speaker 1: who helped me learn how to use my voice in
Speaker 1: storytelling and also for finding me all the harmonies that
Speaker 1: I needed so that I could participate in a different
Speaker 1: key because a lot of the songs, particularly when I
Speaker 1: joined at the very beginning, were all written for male
Speaker 1: voice tones. So when it was you know, when we
Speaker 1: were trying to shuffle things around and like what can
Speaker 1: you sing and what can you sing? I was like,
Speaker 1: I can't sing anything because it was either really low
Speaker 1: or really high. And I was like, this is such
Speaker 1: a struggle. But it was a great challenge to have
Speaker 1: because then you know, it took me ages. It took
Speaker 1: me probably a good four years to find where my
Speaker 1: voice would be useful, I guess, and also recognizable, And
Speaker 1: it took me a long time to work that out.
Speaker 2: That's fascinating because again that's something that like no one
Speaker 2: would have thought about that they were written for a
Speaker 2: male voice box and then suddenly it's.
Speaker 3: Like, oh, we have a female wiggle.
Speaker 2: How do we work like this in in a complimentary way,
Speaker 2: And it's funny that people would assume that you just
Speaker 2: solve that straight away.
Speaker 3: But four years, like it's good. Things take time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it took me ages. But also something to recognize
Speaker 1: with the group was that it was founded by amazing
Speaker 1: people with such a great musical background and foundation within themselves.
Speaker 1: So they were all musicians. All the og Wiggles know
Speaker 1: how to play something, so it's natural for them to
Speaker 1: pick up an instrument and play it, and usually with
Speaker 1: the band then, because most of them were in a
Speaker 1: band together before the Wiggles. You know, it's the we
Speaker 1: pick up the guitar and we start playing in the
Speaker 1: key of E because that's normal key. And so most
Speaker 1: of the songs initially were written based on songs that
Speaker 1: they'd previously played or were derived from other melodies that
Speaker 1: they've played, you know at the par but UNI like,
Speaker 1: you know, growing up as a musician is a world
Speaker 1: that I don't know about. But that was obviously a
Speaker 1: huge part of their life which transferred over to The Wiggles,
Speaker 1: and it was why it was so catchy and relatable
Speaker 1: because these were the kinds of musical riffs and melodies
Speaker 1: that were comfortable for them and people were already singing
Speaker 1: along to them, so that made sense. And so when
Speaker 1: when I came and I was like and here's the
Speaker 1: KIV and I was like, oh, that's a bit high. Hell,
Speaker 1: I think I was just a disappointment to myself and
Speaker 1: to them that time. I was like, oh dear. So
Speaker 1: you know, as the show went on and we had
Speaker 1: such a beautiful positive response from people around the world,
Speaker 1: which took many years as well, it rendered the idea
Speaker 1: that Emma Wiggle might do her own show, and so
Speaker 1: when that came through, that was a stressful, be surprising,
Speaker 1: and see I was like, oh my gosh, what are
Speaker 1: we gonna do about this singing? But then it gave
Speaker 1: us an opportunity to write songs that were in my
Speaker 1: key and that changed everything for me, and then I
Speaker 1: worked out where I could sing. But also it should
Speaker 1: be noted that I don't have a very big vocal range,
Speaker 1: so I wasn't able to help them out very much.
Speaker 2: But one thing that's coming through so strongly in such
Speaker 2: a beautiful way for everyone listening is that that we
Speaker 2: talk so much on the show about self doubt and
Speaker 2: imposter syndrome, but particularly how acute that becomes when you
Speaker 2: first start something new, Like it's a good sign that
Speaker 2: you're getting out of the comfort zone, but then you've
Speaker 2: also kind of got to deal with it so you
Speaker 2: can actually do the thing. But that part of it
Speaker 2: as time goes on, has been for you finding the
Speaker 2: things that work, like acknowledging that you don't have a
Speaker 2: big range. There are times when you overcome self doubt
Speaker 2: by fixing the problem and extending your range, and then
Speaker 2: there's times where you just figure out, you know what,
Speaker 2: that's my wheelhouse that isn't and working around it and
Speaker 2: not constantly putting yourself in situations it's going to set
Speaker 2: you up for failure, that's going to, you know.
Speaker 3: Ramp up the self doubt all the time.
Speaker 2: It sounds like it's been such a beautiful process of
Speaker 2: feeling terrified at the start, finding friction points and kind
Speaker 2: of working around them to then start to work with
Speaker 2: what you do have and with what you are good at,
Speaker 2: and with what you are comfortable with.
Speaker 1: And one of the most beautiful things about being in
Speaker 1: that particular role was that I got to have my
Speaker 1: own name and I was myself, and that's something that
Speaker 1: I'm very grateful for because a lot of people that
Speaker 1: I went to school with that ended up getting jobs
Speaker 1: in musical theater were playing different characters and there was
Speaker 1: different names and you have to embody a different character
Speaker 1: and it's not you, whereas we were embraced to bring
Speaker 1: our personality. And hence why I think I had such
Speaker 1: a rigorous training, you know, decade of figuring out what
Speaker 1: is that? Because I am I what am I doing here?
Speaker 1: And you know, I'd constantly say to the group, I'm
Speaker 1: just a dancer. I just want to do the dancing
Speaker 1: and they'd be like, no, no, you can sing sing trinkle,
Speaker 1: trinkle a little stu. I'm like, oh, that's a really
Speaker 1: hard one. Like surprisingly, twinkle Twinkle is really hard just
Speaker 1: putting it out there. It's a really hard so it's
Speaker 1: a really hard song. My favorite song is open Shut
Speaker 1: Them is really I think that's where it came into
Speaker 1: my own Open Shut Them, and it's a it's dear
Speaker 1: to me, like I don't want to be that kind
Speaker 1: of singer, but initially I was trying to be so
Speaker 1: in the first couple of albums you can hear it,
Speaker 1: I try some vibrato which I don't have, and it
Speaker 1: was when I listened back, I like, I just have
Speaker 1: to leave the room. It's horrible because I was trying
Speaker 1: to be somebody else. That's why it took so long
Speaker 1: for me to realize what was comfortable in my voice,
Speaker 1: and people were connecting with my voice over time because
Speaker 1: it was clear. I realized that because I was doing
Speaker 1: a lot of the storytelling, that seemed to be my
Speaker 1: niche and it made me more comfortable because I was
Speaker 1: telling the story to children. And as soon as I
Speaker 1: could pay attention to the children and relay the story
Speaker 1: to them, I stopped thinking about myself. And as soon
Speaker 1: as that happened, then I wasn't worried.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so interesting and it's funny you said that.
Speaker 2: I feel like this is the your equivalent of what
Speaker 2: I say to people, like in business, for example, when
Speaker 2: they talk about how they, you know, cringe when they
Speaker 2: look at their first logo or the first version of
Speaker 2: their products. I'm like, if you don't need to leave
Speaker 2: the room when you hear the first rendition of something
Speaker 2: that you did, then you haven't grown enough, Like you're
Speaker 2: supposed to cringe over version one, you know, that's the point.
Speaker 1: You know. Now, in this technological age, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of forums and discussions online and there's so many interesting
Speaker 1: discussions about the change in my voice and like why
Speaker 1: did she sing like this in twenty fourteen and then
Speaker 1: in twenty and sixteen she sounded like that, And I'm like, wow,
Speaker 1: people are really a tentive to identity through voice as well.
Speaker 1: And I think because we had to do so much
Speaker 1: talking and dialogue and live shows, you know, the range
Speaker 1: of our voice was it was such a big part
Speaker 1: of that role. And so the singing element was always
Speaker 1: really freaky to me. But once I could get comfortable
Speaker 1: with my arrangement of songs or what I was singing,
Speaker 1: then yeah, I think it got to yeah, twenty sixteen
Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm I'm ready, And twenty eighteen
Speaker 1: I was like, this is good. I'm good. I know
Speaker 1: where I'm singing and it's from and I'm fine with it.
Speaker 1: That's amazing.
Speaker 2: So a couple of questions coming to mine now. So firstly,
Speaker 2: given that the digital age has as that decade progressed,
Speaker 2: made you know, given you quite a profile and made
Speaker 2: like the Wiggles, we already or knew who the Wiggles are.
Speaker 2: But then as a person, people get to know, like
Speaker 2: you know who you're dating and what you're doing and
Speaker 2: how your voice is changing, and they've got comparison and stuff.
Speaker 2: Did you struggle at all with as you mentioned as well,
Speaker 2: being the first female Wiger was very well received after
Speaker 2: a while, but that, like the digital age, also makes
Speaker 2: criticism quite instant for you as well. Did you struggle
Speaker 2: with that profile building process and that kind of real
Speaker 2: time feedback in the beginning, but also did you struggle
Speaker 2: with your audience being children, Like did you ever kind
Speaker 2: of get to the end of the day and be like, oh,
Speaker 2: I want to speak adult or did you.
Speaker 1: Like that children are the best? And to be honest,
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful that they were our audience because they're
Speaker 1: so embracing and it wouldn't matter if you looked like
Speaker 1: a chicken. They'd be like, this is great. So it really,
Speaker 1: you know, you get saved with the children's audience because
Speaker 1: they're just so excited that you're there. With technology, there's
Speaker 1: positives and negatives, and the real positive is that we
Speaker 1: could connect with people around the world, which was amazing.
Speaker 1: So our music content was being watched by people in
Speaker 1: other countries all at the same time, and then people
Speaker 1: would be writing to us live and oh I love
Speaker 1: this song, which is fantastic. And of course the negative,
Speaker 1: as we know, the criticism is very, very high. But
Speaker 1: I do think that being a dancer, I was so
Speaker 1: used to being told what not to do, and so
Speaker 1: for me, I was never worried. I was like, yeah, okay, sure,
Speaker 1: we'll take that on. But again, I mean sometimes if
Speaker 1: you read things over and over again, or it's the
Speaker 1: same comment that's coming up, you can take that on
Speaker 1: in a way. But I would try and think about
Speaker 1: it as a critique and try and improve what I
Speaker 1: was doing. So a lot of the comments my voice,
Speaker 1: which were very pronounced, I was like, yeah, okay, you're right,
Speaker 1: my voice was a bit terrible on that one, and
Speaker 1: then I would try and make improvements to make it
Speaker 1: better or clearer or more recognizable and more like myself
Speaker 1: rather than pretending I was Ariana Gruande, which I'm not.
Speaker 1: I love her, but I'm not Ariana.
Speaker 2: That's really interesting because I agree with that. I feel
Speaker 2: like being a dancer, And this is why I want
Speaker 2: my kids eventually to one day I don't have kids yet,
Speaker 2: but one day my future children to do things like
Speaker 2: dancing or sport, because I feel like you get a
Speaker 2: thicker skin, like you get a tolerance and a resilience
Speaker 2: to criticism, possibly it went too far when I was
Speaker 2: a young dancer, but you grow the ability to self
Speaker 2: critique and to take on criticism and improve, like to
Speaker 2: take that on and not think, oh, it's my value
Speaker 2: as a human is worse. But maybe I should just
Speaker 2: I don't know. I feel like I've got a much
Speaker 2: higher tolerance for negative feedback. I mean, I don't love it,
Speaker 2: but I think those earlier years really helped me now
Speaker 2: move on faster when I get negative feedback.
Speaker 1: And it's I mean, I like to call it feedback,
Speaker 1: just as a blanket feedback, so that it has the
Speaker 1: opportunity to be positive if it needs to be, and
Speaker 1: even if it is directed with a sad tone, there's
Speaker 1: always an opportunity in that. And I think totally as
Speaker 1: a dancer, it wasn't that it was necessarily harsh, even
Speaker 1: though it might come across like that. It was always
Speaker 1: about improving you as a better day totally, and it's
Speaker 1: never given in a way that's you know, it's really hard.
Speaker 1: I think it's hard. You're right, if you're a dancer,
Speaker 1: or if you're in that kind of environment. Same with
Speaker 1: a sporting team or you know, a specific discipline that
Speaker 1: requires routine practice and rehearsal and performance and all those
Speaker 1: kinds of elements. There's something that you just get used
Speaker 1: to and it's actually really helpful. Otherwise it really puts
Speaker 1: you in a position where you can't self reflect, and
Speaker 1: that value to not be able to reflect on yourself
Speaker 1: is that's hard. I think that's one of the skills
Speaker 1: about being an adult is accepting that you might not
Speaker 1: have done it the right way, or that there could
Speaker 1: be a better way. But you know, our dance teachers
Speaker 1: were always like other leg different leg higher, get up there,
Speaker 1: turn it out like it wasn't a personal critique, it
Speaker 1: was to help.
Speaker 2: You be better, absolutely, And I found the hardest teachers
Speaker 2: that were the scariest were often often the ones that
Speaker 2: if I was, yeah, if I was really dedicated to
Speaker 2: getting better.
Speaker 3: I'd want them.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't want the softer ones, which maybe like a
Speaker 2: bit bit of a psychological thing going on there.
Speaker 1: I think in terms of growing resilience, it's really about
Speaker 1: accepting feedback that's outside yourself. And also, of course taking
Speaker 1: things is with a grain of salt, naturally, and as
Speaker 1: technology tells us and shows us, you know, you can't
Speaker 1: listen to everything and take on board everything that's written
Speaker 1: about you, because it can be super weird.
Speaker 2: So it's really interesting that you mentioned that around twenty
Speaker 2: sixteen you started to get a little bit more like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm in my groove, and then by twenty eighteen you
Speaker 2: were like, I've got it, this is ready, I've found
Speaker 2: my groove and I'm ready. And then that in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one, after like nine years, the Wiggles chapter ended.
Speaker 2: And I think one of the things that can be
Speaker 2: really difficult is when you're doing something that you absolutely
Speaker 2: love and you do get really comfortable, It's like, how
Speaker 2: long do you stay in that comfort before you agitate
Speaker 2: for a new chapter? How do you know when it's
Speaker 2: time to grow into something else? How do you know
Speaker 2: when you've not become complacent? But how do you know
Speaker 2: when your growth in a particular area it's time to
Speaker 2: shift your focus? How did you start your next chapter?
Speaker 2: How have you unraveled your identity as a Wiggle and
Speaker 2: then started crafting post wiggle Emma, Like, how did that
Speaker 2: whole shift kind of happen for you?
Speaker 1: They are so many questions.
Speaker 2: By the way, sorry, there's like eight hundred questions in
Speaker 2: like one thing. But the whole, like as I'm sure
Speaker 2: you can tell, the whole progression of a journey is
Speaker 2: so fascinating to me. And I think people are very
Speaker 2: scared of their journey having many many steps, but actually
Speaker 2: the best journeys do have many steps, and sometimes the
Speaker 2: step falls in your lap, but sometimes you have to
Speaker 2: be ready to take it as well, and that sometimes
Speaker 2: involves a lot of self reflection. And yeah, I just
Speaker 2: I'm so curious how did that come about for you?
Speaker 2: Because being yellow Emma Wiggle, I'm sure you could have
Speaker 2: done that forever and had the happiest life.
Speaker 1: Oh. Absolutely. And you know, I can reflect on some
Speaker 1: of the interviews that I did in the decade where
Speaker 1: I would say and truly believe that I would be
Speaker 1: there till I was sixty, and I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not being a Wiggle forever and ever and ever.
Speaker 1: And you know, a part of that chapter will always
Speaker 1: be a part of me. So in some ways, yes,
Speaker 1: it will continue on forever. But in terms of being
Speaker 1: brave enough, as you mentioned about going into something new
Speaker 1: or you know, taking that leap, I don't even know
Speaker 1: if I was brave, but I just took a punt
Speaker 1: and I felt that that chapter to grow into something
Speaker 1: else and to learn even more skills. Felt like that
Speaker 1: that might be a good time, but I didn't know
Speaker 1: if it was going to be a great time. I
Speaker 1: just thought maybe now, But it wasn't cemented in my
Speaker 1: brain as like I have closed it off, you know,
Speaker 1: and this is everything that I can achieve. However, I
Speaker 1: did think that in my headspace that I'd given everything
Speaker 1: to Emma Wiggle in that time, and I was so
Speaker 1: I got in such a swing. It was so so
Speaker 1: comfortable and got so comfortable doing the shows, and I
Speaker 1: grew so much in that role that yes, I felt
Speaker 1: ready to then grow into another version of me. And
Speaker 1: I guess what's interesting is that that took a long time.
Speaker 1: I probably have only really come to terms with that
Speaker 1: now a year later from making that decision. I guess
Speaker 1: it will always take time because we're always constantly growing.
Speaker 1: But understanding that it is segmented in chapters has been
Speaker 1: so helpful for me because now I think that was
Speaker 1: that chapter, as you mentioned before, and now I'm onto
Speaker 1: this new chapter. But life is a series of chapters,
Speaker 1: so we have to constantly progress and move forward and improve.
Speaker 1: And it became apparent to me because I was studying
Speaker 1: at the same time, working out ways to include visual
Speaker 1: communication with media for children through my PhD, that it
Speaker 1: just became I can't even explain it. It's just really
Speaker 1: strong in my waters. It's really like, I don't know
Speaker 1: what it is, but a part of my passion is movement.
Speaker 1: I love dan and I love visual communication and I
Speaker 1: love learning sign language, and it just became overwhelming. And
Speaker 1: at the time of the pandemic, when we weren't touring,
Speaker 1: it gave me a lot of time to do a
Speaker 1: lot of that writing the research, and I was like,
Speaker 1: you know what, there's a lot to be had here.
Speaker 1: We have not done enough in Australia. And I thought, okay,
Speaker 1: if I'm going to make this opportunity now to try
Speaker 1: and contribute to this area of research, it needs to
Speaker 1: be now. And so I took a leap, but I
Speaker 1: didn't know what was going to happen. Really, I just
Speaker 1: took it.
Speaker 2: But do you know, I feel like sometimes it's better
Speaker 2: that you do that. I feel like sometimes those leaps,
Speaker 2: if you did know what was involved, you wouldn't leap
Speaker 2: like the Nativity about what's going to happen. It's rip
Speaker 2: the band aid and do it because then also when
Speaker 2: you end on a high, you have no resentment about
Speaker 2: staying somewhere for too long.
Speaker 1: Like I had the best time. I had the best time,
Speaker 1: and it was really that. It was like a burning
Speaker 1: instinctive feeling that I was right right, I need to
Speaker 1: be able to contribute to our content in Australia, particularly
Speaker 1: in the children's space, because I love it and it's
Speaker 1: where I have the most experience. There needs to be
Speaker 1: more I could see more. I felt from experiences that
Speaker 1: were being told to me that there was a lack
Speaker 1: of accessibility in children's media and media in general, but
Speaker 1: especially in the children's space. And I was like, right,
Speaker 1: I'm doing it. They just took a leap.
Speaker 3: And you just did it.
Speaker 2: Can you please put Emma Wiggle as your name on
Speaker 2: your PhD? Like can it be doctor Wiggle because that
Speaker 2: would be amazing.
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of the children. I remember
Speaker 1: when we were talking to people about yeah PhD, and
Speaker 1: so parents would explain that to children as being a doctor.
Speaker 1: A lot of children felt that I was going to
Speaker 1: be a medical doctor. So it was a very confusing title.
Speaker 1: So maybe we need to come with a new name
Speaker 1: for it. I don't know what it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like a lot of PhDs don't use
Speaker 2: doctor because of that, And I'm like, if I do
Speaker 2: a whole PhD, you are definitely calling me doctor.
Speaker 3: There is no way you're not.
Speaker 1: We have we haven't fully got there yet. I feel
Speaker 1: like we're not quite there, but hopefully at some point
Speaker 1: we will be. But unfortunately, but also fortunately leaving the
Speaker 1: Wiggles and that chapter that was, you know, so much
Speaker 1: a part of my every single minute of every day,
Speaker 1: now I've been opened up to even more opportunities and
Speaker 1: challenges about this particular space that I've had to extend
Speaker 1: the PhD to yield some of these cases to learn
Speaker 1: from and write about. And so the PhD was meant
Speaker 1: to be finished, but because we have met so many people,
Speaker 1: we have found some new research, we have met people
Speaker 1: that are doing amazing things. We've also seen a lot
Speaker 1: lack of accessibility and inclusion. Wow, it's now like, hang on,
Speaker 1: we just have to hold hold on the submission because
Speaker 1: hold hold the doctor phone. We have to write about
Speaker 1: some of this stuff because it's really really interesting and
Speaker 1: it's going to inform us for the next future of
Speaker 1: content creators. Hopefully. So that's why I keep going Hold,
Speaker 1: I call up the union, like, just hold again, there's
Speaker 1: something really good here. Hang on a second. This is
Speaker 1: really interesting. So that's kind of where we're at now.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I cannot wait to read it.
Speaker 2: I actually love reading people's thesis like I love it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: absolutely did. I was a lawyer. I did an honest thesis.
Speaker 1: Shall I send it to you now? Please? I need please.
Speaker 2: I love long film writing and I love editing. I've
Speaker 2: edited so many people's thesis like, honestly, if you ever
Speaker 2: need an editor, it makes me very excited.
Speaker 1: I mean I was in yourin but.
Speaker 2: I absolutely send it my way. So how much time
Speaker 2: is that taking up? Now you're doing that full time?
Speaker 2: And obviously we're going to move on to talk about
Speaker 2: a very exciting ambassadorship that you have. But is Emma
Speaker 2: post wiggle figuring out? Like I can't even imagine how
Speaker 2: you figured out, like in those first days. I remember
Speaker 2: when I quit corporate and went into business, Like the
Speaker 2: first month, I was just like I have never known
Speaker 2: how to do a day of work that wasn't like
Speaker 2: very structured and very obvious like that someone else wasn't
Speaker 2: kind of telling me what to do and going from
Speaker 2: the Wiggles where like the wiggles are no matter who
Speaker 2: is a wiggle at a certain time, there's like a
Speaker 2: structure of how they do their working day yep. And
Speaker 2: then suddenly you're like, oh wait, I can what.
Speaker 1: Am I doing? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Like what is life? So how have you figured out
Speaker 2: what your time is doing? Like?
Speaker 3: What are you doing?
Speaker 1: That has taken a year and it is that feeling
Speaker 1: of liberation with time, but also opportunity not just to
Speaker 1: work and collaborate with other people, Like I've just covered
Speaker 1: so many people in the last year that are researching
Speaker 1: similar things to me and are working in this space
Speaker 1: of creative sign language, And I'm like, how did I
Speaker 1: not know about you? What about you? Your project is amazing?
Speaker 1: And all of these things have really come to the
Speaker 1: forefront because we've now had time to either receive the
Speaker 1: messages that have been coming to us some people like
Speaker 1: I've been trying to contact you for years. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I never knew about that, and so it's amazing. It's
Speaker 1: amazing now to have the time to sift through and
Speaker 1: understand where is everybody at, why are they connecting with
Speaker 1: the content, what are they looking for? What are they lacking?
Speaker 1: What do they need? And that's essentially what we've been
Speaker 1: doing over the last twelve months in creating a new
Speaker 1: children's character and making sure that we're delivering the right material.
Speaker 2: Is it an osline character? Is that sort of the
Speaker 2: basis of the thesis?
Speaker 1: Well, look, we'd like to acknowledge that Emma Mema, which
Speaker 1: is the new children's character, is an extension I guess
Speaker 1: of myself, but maybe an outcome of some of this research.
Speaker 1: So whilst it's not the actual conclusion, it has elements
Speaker 1: right it that integrate visual communication for what it needs
Speaker 1: to be. It is inspired by visual movement, but it's
Speaker 1: also consulted by deaf talent here in Australia and other
Speaker 1: friends of Emma. They may also use sign language. And
Speaker 1: so we have this beautiful friend of mine that I
Speaker 1: have known for many years, Elvin, who is deaf himself.
Speaker 1: He's a dancer, he was from Hong Kong. He moved
Speaker 1: to Australia learnt ballet at twenty Can we stop them? Wow?
Speaker 2: We thought you were over the hill at four, so
Speaker 2: twenty is like stop it.
Speaker 1: Elvin is one of the most inspiring people and I'm
Speaker 1: just so grateful to have the chance not just to
Speaker 1: work with him, workshop with him, and he alongside my
Speaker 1: other friend Sue, who is deaf, who didn't learn sign
Speaker 1: language until her teenage years. I don't know how. I
Speaker 1: just don't. I just don't get it. They are the
Speaker 1: most creative and visually expressive people I've ever met, and
Speaker 1: we just this, this is miss is my problem. I
Speaker 1: get so into it and we learn, we learn so
Speaker 1: much from each other, and I'm just really grateful now
Speaker 1: to have the time to spend with these amazing professional
Speaker 1: artists who use visual communication for everyday life and for
Speaker 1: their professional life. And it's just yeah, it's taking my
Speaker 1: breath away. It's just amazing. And that's why I keep extending.
Speaker 1: I'm like these people, of course, why and and and like,
Speaker 1: look at what they're doing. Their work is amazing and
Speaker 1: what are we learning and how can we connect and
Speaker 1: just stop me, stop it.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: When your thesis does come out, I'm going to do
Speaker 2: a little shout out back to it in one of
Speaker 2: these episodes and then put the linking. I feel like
Speaker 2: the way listening, who are really fascinating, who will be
Speaker 2: really fascinated but it's interesting you're talking about how like
Speaker 2: getting access like as the chapter has closed, it's allowed
Speaker 2: you not only more time, but to finally take up
Speaker 2: some of the opportunities and connections that you just didn't
Speaker 2: have capacity for and you have space for, but that
Speaker 2: you're able to use the profile that you have to
Speaker 2: amplify a lot of causes and things that you're really
Speaker 2: passionate about that you didn't have time for before because
Speaker 2: you were wiggling all the time. And now you have
Speaker 2: a little bit more leeway to amplify things in society,
Speaker 2: and one of them is f October, on which, as
Speaker 2: we all know it's October. It tell us about F October.
Speaker 1: I also am upset with myself that I also did
Speaker 1: not know much about F October before this year, and again,
Speaker 1: traveling so much and being immersed in different situations in
Speaker 1: different countries, you get overwhelmed with information. Whilst I knew
Speaker 1: about for October as a general concept, which is for
Speaker 1: everybody a month obviously of October for the chance for
Speaker 1: everybody to frock themselves up or dress up in their
Speaker 1: favorite frocks, and it's to raise awareness about ovarian cancer,
Speaker 1: not just here in Australia but overseas two and it
Speaker 1: really is about donating to the Ovarian Cancer Research Foundation
Speaker 1: to create more and more resources for new research. So
Speaker 1: it is again another very interesting trajectory because I had
Speaker 1: very much the pleasure of meeting the people from the
Speaker 1: OCRF earlier this year with Witchery and we did the
Speaker 1: white Shirt campaign to also raise funds for ovarian cancer,
Speaker 1: and that experience in itself was life changing for me.
Speaker 1: And whilst I've had my own situation with endometriosis, which
Speaker 1: is not the same but in the relative area, I
Speaker 1: think when you start to talk to people about their
Speaker 1: own struggles, it just changes the conversation completely and then automatically, yes,
Speaker 1: your besties, you're having a tea party and you're like,
Speaker 1: tell me about your problems and what are your symptoms?
Speaker 1: That's weird, that's the same as mine. And it's those
Speaker 1: conversations that are what we're trying to encourage because I
Speaker 1: think it's when people actually understand that maybe they might
Speaker 1: have something that's slightly not in the normal spectrum either
Speaker 1: and unfortunately these diseases are affecting so many people and
Speaker 1: so this is why the research is important. But anyway,
Speaker 1: Earlier in the year, I happen to be on a
Speaker 1: panel discussion for the OCRF as an ambassador of the
Speaker 1: White Shirt campaign, and we heard from stories about ovarian
Speaker 1: cancer fighters and survivors and I was a mess. I
Speaker 1: was a literal emotional wreck because the stories from some
Speaker 1: of these people that are still living with the disease
Speaker 1: are just felt so real and challenging that it was
Speaker 1: something that I hadn't been exposed to properly before, particularly
Speaker 1: in the area of ovarian cancer, which is a very
Speaker 1: very silent killer for want of a better phrase, and
Speaker 1: it is just very unknown, unfortunately, and that's why you
Speaker 1: can get to the very late stages before you know,
Speaker 1: and then if you are diagnosed, your trajectory beyond that
Speaker 1: point can be quite dicey. So when the OCIF approached
Speaker 1: me to join for Froctober, I was like, yes, but
Speaker 1: hold on a second, what about these people? Their stories
Speaker 1: are so important and I think, really, even though I've
Speaker 1: joined as an ambassador, I would like to just swibble
Speaker 1: the spotlight to some of these people that are actually
Speaker 1: living with the disease and the challenge they face daily
Speaker 1: and look one of the people and if you have
Speaker 1: time and you look on the OCRF website, there's an amazing,
Speaker 1: amazing woman called Leanne, and Leanne has been living with
Speaker 1: verying cancer for over five years and I just can't
Speaker 1: her experience, her stories, the way she talks, the way
Speaker 1: she lives her life is something that we can all
Speaker 1: learn from. And I just the other day when we
Speaker 1: were launching for October, we got to see Leanne again
Speaker 1: and she mentioned, you know, I didn't even know if
Speaker 1: i'd see you again, and I was like, ah again,
Speaker 1: tears out of my eyeballs, like jumping out, like I
Speaker 1: just it's amazing the personal connections that we've been able
Speaker 1: to make just through this campaign alone, and the people
Speaker 1: and work that is behind the OCRF and the researchers
Speaker 1: and the scientists and doctors behind Overian cancer research are
Speaker 1: beyond amazing, beyond I just can't. I'm stepping back. That's amazing, amazing,
Speaker 1: it's amazing, it's amazing. That's why I can't be doctoring,
Speaker 1: because they are really Oh it's crazy, they're beautiful.
Speaker 2: It's still it just blows me away. I've also been helping,
Speaker 2: you know, part of the white shirt campaign for a
Speaker 2: couple of years and done various things with the OCRF
Speaker 2: and every time I hear it, like one woman dies
Speaker 2: every eight hours in Australia, not even globally, but in
Speaker 2: Australia from overian cancer and yet there's like still no
Speaker 2: early detection test. It's just it's so misunderstood, and like
Speaker 2: I feel like it's one of those things that once
Speaker 2: you hear the statistic, you just want to scream about
Speaker 2: that might the issue?
Speaker 1: Yeah, go and get.
Speaker 2: Checked and your perhaps me doesn't cover it, like all
Speaker 2: these things that we've just and I think the more
Speaker 2: it can be amplified and the more conversations you can have,
Speaker 2: and the more like who doesn't want to get frocked
Speaker 2: up in October? Like that's the funnest way to get
Speaker 2: people having a conversation. What an amazing campaign.
Speaker 1: You've absolutely hit the nail on the head. It really
Speaker 1: is about and Leanne talks about this too. It's definitely
Speaker 1: for October is to celebrate the joy of coming together,
Speaker 1: but also it has such a juxtaposed message and the
Speaker 1: fact that a woman dies every eight hours from overi
Speaker 1: in cancer is overwhelming and for this particular campaign, I
Speaker 1: was very honored to wear this amazing frock designed by
Speaker 1: a guy called Jamie and his cousin Jenna very sadly
Speaker 1: passed away from OVERI in cancer. And he's put these
Speaker 1: big glitter bands on the dress that represent the eight hours.
Speaker 1: And so there's eight gold bands on the dress. That's
Speaker 1: why you have to come with the photo. But that's
Speaker 1: why he's.
Speaker 3: I've seen it.
Speaker 1: It's so beautiful, like and so this is this is
Speaker 1: going to sound and quite weird. But when I was
Speaker 1: talking with Jamie about the dress, initially, I said, can
Speaker 1: we just clarify the eight bands because we were talking
Speaker 1: about the design and he'd showed me pictures because we
Speaker 1: hadn't seen each other in real life yet. And I
Speaker 1: was like, the most it's so bright, it's so joyous,
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, it would have been Jenna's favorite
Speaker 1: it's her favorite color. And I said, you've just you've
Speaker 1: done such an amaze. The whole dress is just it
Speaker 1: is breathtaking. But I said, so are the bands to
Speaker 1: represent that a woman is diagognosed every eight hours and
Speaker 1: he goes no, one passes away every eight And I
Speaker 1: was like, and it's as soon as the facts are
Speaker 1: in your mind, you cannot get rid of it. And
Speaker 1: this is what for October is about. It's about how
Speaker 1: we can support this conversation whilst we may not be
Speaker 1: suffering from ovarian cancer ourselves, or we might not know it.
Speaker 1: It is about bringing this conversation to light and being
Speaker 1: able to tell as many people as possible. And that
Speaker 1: really is our responsibility. And that's the only way that
Speaker 1: I can see my partnership with the OCRF is just
Speaker 1: being there to strike up the conversation.
Speaker 2: Oh well, you're doing an incredible, incredible job. I mean
Speaker 2: even just hearing you speak about it now, you speak
Speaker 2: with such passion and that the dress I didn't know
Speaker 2: about the symbology behind it. I'll have to share share
Speaker 2: that photo from the from the campaign when we publish
Speaker 2: the podcast. It's just, Yeah, you are doing a wonderful job.
Speaker 2: I feel like so moved even hearing you speak about it.
Speaker 1: Now when you hear Leanne, Oh, if you're in a
Speaker 1: room with Leanne, you just bring your tissues. That's all
Speaker 1: I can say, bring your tissues. And that's I guess.
Speaker 1: It is important to note that it's not just me
Speaker 1: frolicking around in any old dress. This particular frocking is
Speaker 1: so important and is in honor of not just Jenna's life,
Speaker 1: but of so many many people that have lost the
Speaker 1: fight with ovarian cancer. And look, I'm just really all
Speaker 1: I'm there is I'm just a cheerleader. I am a
Speaker 1: cheerleader for the research and the foundation.
Speaker 2: So for our listeners, for anyone else who wants to
Speaker 2: frock up in October?
Speaker 3: How do we, like, do you register? How do we
Speaker 3: sort of be part of it?
Speaker 1: There's lots of different ways. You could hold your own
Speaker 1: tea party and dress up.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, tea pat like we're actually holding tea parties.
Speaker 1: We could. I mean, essentially you have an event, so
Speaker 1: you can register your event and fundraise that way. You
Speaker 1: could even fundraise just by donating to one of our
Speaker 1: other people that have registered online. So if you visit
Speaker 1: the OCF and you click donate, you can see other
Speaker 1: ambassadors and people that have been following their campaign for
Speaker 1: many years, and they just have the most amazing array
Speaker 1: of dresses. It's just incredible. Somebody's like, this is the
Speaker 1: dress I always wear for froc Tober and when it's
Speaker 1: in the second week of front, I always had this
Speaker 1: One'm like, that is a amazing. Why haven't I not
Speaker 1: known about this, and so you can donate to other
Speaker 1: people's events or other people's fundraising campaigns, or you can
Speaker 1: just donate yourself to the cause. But yes, for October
Speaker 1: is about instigating that awareness. But you can donate to
Speaker 1: the OCRF anytime of the year.
Speaker 3: Amazing.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll make sure to include links to everything or
Speaker 2: the information and where you can donate and where you
Speaker 2: can find other people who are participating as well in
Speaker 2: the show notes. Emma, thank you so so much for
Speaker 2: this chat. I feel like I could we didn't even
Speaker 2: touch on your end. I feel like that I have
Speaker 2: so many more questions for you, but we'll have to
Speaker 2: just have a tea party another time. Yeah, have part two.
Speaker 2: Very last question for you, since I love quotes so much,
Speaker 2: if you had to leave our audience with a particular
Speaker 2: quote that was your favorite, what would it be?
Speaker 1: Be a goat? I don't oh, yes, that's only yes.
Speaker 1: Just boaths to cheeky. They have no inhibitions, so you know,
Speaker 1: be yourself, be a goat. I love that.
Speaker 2: And also go and google if anyone needs to be
Speaker 2: cheered up at any time any day, go and look
Speaker 2: up fainting goats on YouTube. Have you seen fainting goats,
Speaker 2: you know the ones that like they get too excited.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're muscles. They're so cute. But you can
Speaker 1: also if you want to look at very cute goats,
Speaker 1: you can have a look at them on my social
Speaker 1: media too.
Speaker 2: Of course, Oh my god, we should change it to like,
Speaker 2: Emma goat lover or something.
Speaker 1: I had an interview not that long ago, and I
Speaker 1: think the title of the article was crazy goat lady.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, that pretty much sums me up.
Speaker 3: Yeah that fits. That fits.
Speaker 2: But you're also the goat as in like the greatest
Speaker 2: of all time, so I feel like there's a double
Speaker 2: meeting going on.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, but just be oh you've seen Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's not my sheep, but that's a rescue sheep on
Speaker 1: the on the sanctuary. I know. I'm like, we're His
Speaker 1: name is Boots, and it steals my goat's food, so
Speaker 1: we're not best friends.
Speaker 2: Wombats, Hello, that's my goat, mom, mom, mom, on like
Speaker 2: a dog.
Speaker 1: Honestly, that's Strawberry. Yeah, she's beautiful Strawberry.
Speaker 3: And I actually like puppies.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, yep, yep. They're amazing beautiful animals.
Speaker 2: Oh Wow, so much goat content. All right, yeah, hit
Speaker 2: up Emma Watkins Official.
Speaker 1: And invite the goats to your Froctober tea party and
Speaker 1: dress up, frock up and be a goat. That's what
Speaker 1: I'm parting with.
Speaker 2: Quote of the day amazing, Emma, thank you so much
Speaker 2: for joining. This was absolutely wonderful and we'll have to
Speaker 2: do a tea party suit.
Speaker 1: Can we please? That would be lovely? Absolutely, thank you.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Em as one of those people you can't speak to
Speaker 2: without having a gigantic smile on your face. I feel
Speaker 2: like even just listening to her voice you would be smiling.
Speaker 2: She's such an amazing human being and doing incredible things
Speaker 2: her PhD. You can find out more about it on
Speaker 2: her page and Emma Memma, the character she's creating, also
Speaker 2: has its own page, or you can just check out
Speaker 2: everything else she's doing on Instagram at Emma Watkins Official.
Speaker 2: And please do tager if you enjoyed this episode and.
Speaker 1: Happen to feel generous enough to share it so that we.
Speaker 2: Can keep spreading the yighborhood and the ya as far
Speaker 2: and wide as we can. Of course, we are so
Speaker 2: lucky to have had Emma on during the month of
Speaker 2: for October, and I've included in the show notes links
Speaker 2: to the os aref's campaign for twenty twenty two, along
Speaker 2: with some important facts on ovarian cancer, how you can
Speaker 2: get involved, how you can donate, and where the funds go.
Speaker 1: It is an.
Speaker 2: Incredibly important cause and it's so important to raise awareness
Speaker 2: of the fact that it is not very easily diagnosed
Speaker 2: and spread the word about ocrf's incredible work.
Speaker 3: So head to the show.
Speaker 1: Notes for that.
Speaker 2: And in the meantime, I hope you're having a wonderful
Speaker 2: week and is seizing your yay man manas