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Speaker 1: So much. You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 1: From Mamma Mia. Welcome to The Spill, your daily pop

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Speaker 1: culture fix. I'm Cassane Lukitch and I'm Taylor Strano. So

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Speaker 1: today Laura and Emma off having a wonderful adventure. So

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Speaker 1: Taylor and I thought we would take you through some

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Speaker 1: of our favorite documentaries. So for today, with our documentaries

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Speaker 1: that we're picking, we are going to steer clear from

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Speaker 1: true crime. The reason is because The Spill did an

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Speaker 1: episode on true Crime dotcos last year. If you want

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Speaker 1: to check that out, we'll pop it in the show

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Speaker 1: notes you so you can go and have a listen

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Speaker 1: to that after you listen to our recommendations. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're going to try and stay in the slightly less

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Speaker 1: murdery section of the documentary universe.

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Speaker 2: True crime is just one of those subjects and maybe

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Speaker 2: it's what happens when you work in the news, you

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Speaker 2: just see all the awful things happening. But true crime

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Speaker 2: is one of those things that is a weak spot

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Speaker 2: or a blind spot for me. So I know you're

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Speaker 2: upset Kissenya. I am very thankful that's not what we're

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Speaker 2: doing today.

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Speaker 1: I mean the great thing about a doc I am

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Speaker 1: like such a history above. I love a documentary. It's

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Speaker 1: always just my default when it comes to watching.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I completely agree with you. The thing that I

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Speaker 2: love about documentaries and docueries is that you can go

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Speaker 2: as big and broad as you want, or as niche

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Speaker 2: and like really zero in on a topic like anything

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Speaker 2: from organized religion or like a post rock obscure band.

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Speaker 2: Like both those documentaries exist, Casenya. While I was doing

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Speaker 2: research for this topic, I was like, what is the

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Speaker 2: most niche documentary that exists in the world. I found one,

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure that you and I will be as

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Speaker 2: equally excited about it. It's from two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 2: It's a documentary called Helvetica, and yes, it is an

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Speaker 2: entire documentary about the Helvetica type face.

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Speaker 1: I love that, I would say, so be into that.

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Speaker 1: Do you know one that I like did kind of

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Speaker 1: pitch that got knocked down really far is because it

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Speaker 1: makes me seem like I'm eighty years old? Was this

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Speaker 1: ten part Vietnam War documentary. I was like, no, one's

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Speaker 1: kind of water that it was like a ken But

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Speaker 1: I was like, it's a really good documentary history. But Taylor,

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Speaker 1: why don't you get started with your first pick?

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Speaker 2: Okay? So my first pick comes from two thousand and nine.

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Speaker 2: It's directed and produced by R. J. Cutler. It's the

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Speaker 2: September issue. Do those words mean anything to you, because.

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Speaker 1: They absolutely do.

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Speaker 2: You speak it to a fashion girl, who Oh, I'm

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Speaker 2: so glad, and I'll try and hold my own in

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Speaker 2: this conversation. The September issue, of course, is the documentary

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Speaker 2: around putting together the September issue of Vogue. Now, for

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Speaker 2: folks who don't know the reason that is such an

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Speaker 2: important issue that comes out every year for Vogue, September

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Speaker 2: kind of signifies like the end of financial year. September

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Speaker 2: in the fashion world is the new calendar year for fashion.

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Speaker 2: It's a big deal. It's the biggest issue they put

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Speaker 2: out every year, and the two thousand and seven edition

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Speaker 2: of Vogue was the largest they'd ever published at that point.

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Speaker 2: It weighed like five pounds and was like eight hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty pages or something ridiculous like that. The other

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Speaker 2: important thing is who's going to be on the cover

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Speaker 2: of that issue? Right, Because it's the most sought after,

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Speaker 2: it's the most popular issue. Do you remember who was

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Speaker 2: on the cover of two thousand and seven September Vogue,

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Speaker 2: because I know, not off the top of my head,

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Speaker 2: I can't believe you can't recall that it's Kirston Dunce,

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Speaker 2: who at the time was promoting her film Marie Antoinette, which.

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Speaker 1: Is actually kind of perfect. And we see in this

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Speaker 1: documentary a lot of the behind the scenes of Anna

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Speaker 1: Winter and like how she runs her empire, I suppose.

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Speaker 1: But September is New York Fashion Week, so again another

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Speaker 1: really important month for fashion.

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Speaker 2: Like you said there, it's about Anna Winter. It's this

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Speaker 2: woman who still to this day I think remains quite

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Speaker 2: an elusive and mysterious figure. And yes she is stepping

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Speaker 2: down from the head of Vogue, but she'll still be

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Speaker 2: playing an overall part obviously in our fashion world. I

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Speaker 2: love that this documentary gave us like unbridled access to

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Speaker 2: her and her team as well, like people who feature

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Speaker 2: in this documentary, Andre Leon Talley, May he rest in

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Speaker 2: peace if you're a Wang. Carl Lagerfeld makes an appearance,

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Speaker 2: and of course her right hand woman Grace Cottingham as well.

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Speaker 2: Up until this point, I don't think we really saw

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Speaker 2: much of Anna Winter. She wasn't really known as a

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Speaker 2: media tach. She didn't really do the rounds up till

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Speaker 2: now like in present days. She's been on some talk shows.

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Speaker 2: We know little bits more about her. But this documentary,

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Speaker 2: the September issue was really for the first time for

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Speaker 2: a lot of people getting that behind the scenes of

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Speaker 2: the glossy facade that is Vogue magazine.

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Speaker 1: Anyone coming to this run through except me.

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Speaker 3: I'm with the international renowned editorship of American Vogue.

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Speaker 1: Anna Winter, the single most important figure in the three

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Speaker 1: hundred billion dollar global fashion industry, is watching more closely

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Speaker 1: than the movie stars or the runway.

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Speaker 3: If you are so influential with the designers, if we

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Speaker 3: get behind something it.

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Speaker 2: Selves because of that, oly go Anna is like Madonna.

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Speaker 1: Fashion is not about looking back. It's always about looking forward.

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Speaker 1: It's also quite interesting if you don't have any experience

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Speaker 1: in that fashion world to see how shows and magazines

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Speaker 1: and how that all comes together. Despite the fact that

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Speaker 1: I have always sort of been involved, have actually never

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Speaker 1: seen the documentary, which is kind of sacrileged for me.

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Speaker 1: I think because around that time I was a bit

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Speaker 1: younger obviously, and I was modeling at the time, and

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Speaker 1: I feel like I was a bit traumatized by the

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Speaker 1: whole industry that I just didn't want to have anything

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Speaker 1: to do with it. But it's a really interesting insight

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Speaker 1: into how magazines and fashion had worked back then. But

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Speaker 1: magazines are kind of dead now, unfortunately.

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Speaker 2: You're right, it's like this snow globe preservation of the

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Speaker 2: early two thousands in fashion, which, like you said, not

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Speaker 2: necessarily the nicest of times, especially for people who were

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Speaker 2: working in that industry, but something that I hazard against

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Speaker 2: probably hasn't actually changed that much in present day. Maybe

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Speaker 2: this is one for you to watch when you're ready, kissen,

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Speaker 2: and you can report back to me what you think.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like maybe I'm ready now I'm old

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Speaker 1: and don't model anymore, so it's way past it. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: those sorts of things. Was always very like, just didn't

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Speaker 1: want to touch it, but I do like it in

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Speaker 1: retrospect now very good.

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Speaker 2: Okay, tell me what is the first documentary or docuseries

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Speaker 2: that you're bringing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I am going to do something that is

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent not really very me and that is

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Speaker 1: the last dance, which is the Michael Jordan docu series

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Speaker 1: from twenty twenty. Now, I do not play sports. I

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Speaker 1: am not a sportsperson. I am not an athlete by

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Speaker 1: any means. Flail around me. Serious, I am so unathletic.

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Speaker 2: Casnya like Spillers. Not that this makes any difference to

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Speaker 2: you or to Cassenya, but Cassena is like this tall,

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Speaker 2: like you're like built like an athlete. Man, what do

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Speaker 2: you mean? I'm so surprised by that.

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Speaker 1: Everybody was always like, oh, can you play tennis? Can

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Speaker 1: you play volleyball? I'm like, no, I cannot do sports.

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Speaker 1: I'm so uncoordinated. I'm like shocking. But the reason why

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Speaker 1: I love this docu series is because not only does

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Speaker 1: it talk a lot about, you know, Michael Jordan's rise

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Speaker 1: as an athlete and the major season in ninety seven

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Speaker 1: ninety eight for the Chicago Bulls, it talks about his

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Speaker 1: rise as a cultural icon in the nineties and early

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Speaker 1: two thousands. So the reason why I loved it so

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Speaker 1: much was not really the sports side of it, like

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Speaker 1: the Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman stuff. It was more

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Speaker 1: the Nike deal. It was the fandom surrounding it. Like

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Speaker 1: global fandom. I owned a Chicago Bulls T shirt when

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Speaker 1: I was a teenager, having not even known the rules

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Speaker 1: of basketball.

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Speaker 2: This is the beautiful thing about documentaries, right, We can

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Speaker 2: both take different things and appreciate it for different reasons.

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Speaker 2: Like I remember when this came out, like you said,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty, we're in the middle of lockdown. There wasn't

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Speaker 2: much going on. So my partner and I, who are

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Speaker 2: both sport fanatics, like NBA is always on in our

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Speaker 2: house when it's NBA season. When this came out, we

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Speaker 2: were so excited. We just had something new to talk

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Speaker 2: about that wasn't the horrific news that was going on.

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Speaker 2: So tell me, what is it about this documentary that

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Speaker 2: like still sticks with you now?

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Speaker 1: The one thing that sticks out the most is the

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Speaker 1: Nike deal and space.

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Speaker 2: Jam interesting well, yeh, space Jam is such an integral

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Speaker 2: part of our childhoods.

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Speaker 1: Like and also just how he kind of crossed sport

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Speaker 1: into the mainstream. And I think this is why it's

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Speaker 1: really good that both of us like this, because the

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Speaker 1: reason I like it is because it became a cultural phenomenon.

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Speaker 1: You like it because you love an MBA, So you know,

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Speaker 1: I was looking at this deal. So the initial deal

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Speaker 1: that he made with Nike, what we find out is

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Speaker 1: he was offered a blanket deal like lump some which

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Speaker 1: is often what was done with athletes. And then they

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Speaker 1: offered him royalties of each shoe sald which is still

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Speaker 1: in place to this day, which was.

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Speaker 2: Never heard of before. Like you signed a deal, you

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Speaker 2: got a lump sum, and then you moved on.

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Speaker 1: That was it. But he got these royalties. Now to

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Speaker 1: this day he still makes according to Forbes and estimated

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Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty million dollars a year from Nike

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Speaker 1: and Air.

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Speaker 2: Jordan's how Good's that? Like?

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Speaker 1: That is insane? And he was so young when this

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Speaker 1: deal was made.

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Speaker 2: I will say the one thing from the Last Dance

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Speaker 2: that folks maybe aren't aware of is this. I would

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Speaker 2: say it's a very sanitized version of mj His company

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Speaker 2: Jump twenty three were actually the production partners, so he

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Speaker 2: didn't serve as an executive producer or anything, but his

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Speaker 2: media company was there, you know, throughout the whole process,

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Speaker 2: and of course they had like significant input into how

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Speaker 2: the series was created and the direction that it took.

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Speaker 2: And so it does paint him in a relatively good light.

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Speaker 2: For people who will remember. That's not necessarily the way

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Speaker 2: Michael Jordan is remembered by other people. Famously, Luke Longley,

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Speaker 2: who is actually an Australian basketballer, was in that Chicago

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Speaker 2: Bulls team and he was not contacted for comment in

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Speaker 2: this documentary, and I think it was a pretty glaring

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Speaker 2: reason that that may be okay.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know that, but I do know that

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Speaker 1: he had final approval on what was shock. He basically

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Speaker 1: was allowed to say no to anything that wasn't sort

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Speaker 1: of in a positive light, we saw a little bit

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Speaker 1: of the Dennis Rodman stuff. Dennis Rodman was in my

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Speaker 1: zeitgeist when I was younger as well, because he had

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Speaker 1: the crazy hair and the.

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Speaker 2: Piercings, and he dated Madonna.

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Speaker 1: He dated Madonna, he dated Carmen Electra and then of

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Speaker 1: course Space Jam one of the best movies ever made.

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Speaker 1: I was a massive Greeny Tunes fan, and so this

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Speaker 1: movie really hit my household, Like my older brother and

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Speaker 1: I watched this movie all the time.

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent. I think it was like maybe the

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Speaker 2: first film that I watched where animation and real life

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Speaker 2: clashed in a film, and my little brain was wigging out,

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Speaker 2: like I had no idea how that was even possible.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I love that The Last Dance is a

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Speaker 2: culmination for both of us from very different places about

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Speaker 2: like a really fun sport watch.

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Speaker 1: What did you take away from it? What was your

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Speaker 1: main takeaway because you were such a big NBA fan.

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Speaker 2: I think that it's a good reflection of the time.

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Speaker 2: And this is the great thing about Docco's right, like

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Speaker 2: hindsight is twenty twenty. We can reflect upon something that

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Speaker 2: happened years in the past and think about like was

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Speaker 2: it actually good or give some analysis about something that's passed.

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Speaker 2: I thought it was a good documentary. It was really

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Speaker 2: interesting to see that team connection between like Pippen and

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Speaker 2: Rodman and Michael Jordan also the coach as well as

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Speaker 2: a really interesting person and plays a pretty integral role

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Speaker 2: in this doco. If you haven't seen it yet, Phil

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Speaker 2: Jackson is like this new age spiritual guru. So for

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Speaker 2: nothing else, it was just like wish fulfillment for a

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Speaker 2: sport fan.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Taylor, the next one.

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Speaker 2: Okay, this next one I present to you, Cassenya is

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Speaker 2: not necessarily one documentary, but one documentary filmmaker. I am,

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Speaker 2: of course talking about Louis Theroux. Oh my god, I

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Speaker 2: love him so much.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited you refuse to show me your picks

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Speaker 1: before all of this, and I was really upset because

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Speaker 1: I hate secrets, but Mon was trying to keep them separate.

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Speaker 1: Mon our producer, And now I'm kind of glad you

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Speaker 1: did keep it a secret.

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Speaker 2: I knew that this would be your reaction, because who

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Speaker 2: doesn't love Louis th Arroux, right, that's his whole stick.

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Speaker 2: The reason that I love him, and I'm sure that

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Speaker 2: you can agree is he is so disarming and he

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Speaker 2: gets away with asking these really tough or at times

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Speaker 2: just like very direct, borderline rude questions of what can

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Speaker 2: be quite volatile people.

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Speaker 1: And he's doing a podcast now, but I mean he's

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Speaker 1: been doing documentaries with the BBC for a very very

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Speaker 1: long time. Probably his most famous ones the Westboro Baptist

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Speaker 1: Church one. Is that the one that you're kind of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I've got a list. So The Most Hated

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Speaker 2: Family in America, which is what you're talking about, came

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Speaker 2: out in two thousand and seven. But like you said,

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Speaker 2: he's been doing this for years, like since the nineties

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Speaker 2: when Weird Weekends with Louis throu would air on the BBC.

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Speaker 2: We can we jump into a little subculture or a

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Speaker 2: little niche group of people doing something weird in the world.

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Speaker 2: Other ones that I absolutely love is Louis and the

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Speaker 2: Nazis and my Scientology movie. When scientology was that big

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Speaker 2: breaking thing, we had lots of documentaries around that, but

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Speaker 2: My Scientology movie was maybe one of the best to

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Speaker 2: pull it off, because again, it goes back to that

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Speaker 2: thing that Louis throu was so good at. He asked

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Speaker 2: this really direct questions that you're almost like, oh God,

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Speaker 2: like they're not even going to answer it, They're just

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Speaker 2: going to punch him in the face, and he gets

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Speaker 2: away with it.

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Speaker 1: I love a scientology documentary going clears great, but his

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Speaker 1: one is good just the way that he got about it.

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Speaker 1: I also love one of my favorite ones is the

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Speaker 1: porn industry one, and then he does a follow up

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Speaker 1: with the performers like ten years later or something to

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Speaker 1: see where they're at, which is absolutely fascinating. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: every single one of them is fantastic because and you're

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Speaker 1: so right, it is his interview style. It's the way

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Speaker 1: he is able to ask those difficult questions. In this

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Speaker 1: almost awkward, uncomfortable way that gets the actual answer.

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Speaker 2: I will say, I've read his memoir and he's very

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Speaker 2: aware of what he's doing, and even still, the world

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Speaker 2: over we know that that's his style, we know what

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Speaker 2: to expect from him now, but people are still lured

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Speaker 2: into It's almost like a bit of a charm offensive.

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Speaker 2: I would say from Louis Tharux, I love it. There's

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Speaker 2: no assumed knowledge on his behalf. He goes into everything,

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Speaker 2: although I'm sure he's very heavily researched. He goes in

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Speaker 2: with that assumption of being completely new to a top

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Speaker 2: and that it really is an opportunity for audiences as well.

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Speaker 2: We get brought these like serious or maybe even like

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Speaker 2: taboo subjects like pawn or like America's hard as prisons

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Speaker 2: or scientology, and it gets brought to us the masses

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Speaker 2: who maybe would otherwise have like these preconceived ideas about them.

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Speaker 2: He kind of rules that all out and starts from scratch.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't make those initial judgments that I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of people do, which is really hard in

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Speaker 1: an environment where you obviously disagree with the way people

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Speaker 1: do things. I think the most hate family in America

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Speaker 1: is probably the best example of that and is able

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Speaker 1: to still create a relationship with them without passing judgment,

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Speaker 1: which is really challenging as a journalist to do. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: great one, Taylor. Yeah, if you haven't watched the old

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Speaker 1: Weird Weekends with Louis the Roux like you have to.

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Speaker 2: By the way, if you've ever been on TikTok and

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Speaker 2: you've heard that Louis Tharroux rap, yeah, wiggle, that's where

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Speaker 2: that comes from. Again, it's from Weird Weekends.

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Speaker 1: My money, does it?

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Speaker 2: Boo? I willant the senior Weigel wiggles for sure. It

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Speaker 2: makes me want a durable drible you know writing news. Okay, kissenya,

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Speaker 2: laid on me. What's your next one?

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Speaker 1: Okay? I did kind of break my own rules and

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Speaker 1: not do fully true crime, but I did dabble in

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Speaker 1: the cultish theme.

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Speaker 2: Oh I can do cult. I feel like there's a

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Speaker 2: distinction between cult and true crime. I'm in for a

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Speaker 2: cult doco.

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Speaker 1: There is something about cults that gets me hooked every

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Speaker 1: single time. I have a huge list of cult documentaries.

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Speaker 1: If you ever want to ask me, I will give

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Speaker 1: you my favorite list, so dm me. But the one

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Speaker 1: that I want to bring up because I feel like

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Speaker 1: it's also kind of sport related. Is Bikram yoga guru predator.

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Speaker 2: That was a lot of words.

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Speaker 1: Let me to say it again, Bitkrim.

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Speaker 2: Biram yoga yoga guru, predator, Uru predator. Okay, got it?

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Speaker 2: Moving on?

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Speaker 1: Have you watched this? No? Okay? So this is from

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen and it follows the story of Bikram Chandri,

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Speaker 1: who created the Bikram yoga practice. Now, do you know

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Speaker 1: anything about Bickram Yoga.

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad you asked. I didn't realize that was

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Speaker 2: a person's name.

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Speaker 1: Yes. So in the nineteen seventies, Bickram created this particular

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Speaker 1: practice of Bickram yoga. Now, he trademarked this practice, which

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Speaker 1: is the first time that anyone's done this in the

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Speaker 1: yoga world, and he was kind of criticized for it

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Speaker 1: because yogur itself is an ancient practice. Bikram Yoga consists

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Speaker 1: of twenty six poses and two breathing exercises, one at

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Speaker 1: the beginning and one at the end, and it's the

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Speaker 1: same every single time. It's also done in a forty

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Speaker 1: degree room and it's a ninety minute class so it's

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Speaker 1: quite a challenging class. I got really really into it

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Speaker 1: in the early twenty tens. I loved doing Bickram. Now.

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Speaker 1: It became super super popular, like Madonna was doing it.

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Speaker 1: He apparently helped Richard Nixon cure some disease or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But this documentary follows not just the practice itself and

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Speaker 1: the teacher courses, it also explores the allegations of sexual

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Speaker 1: assault and cult like behavior during teacher training sessions.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, Senya, so you had me at stretching, and

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Speaker 2: you had me at warm rooms, and you lost me

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Speaker 2: at sexual assault.

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Speaker 1: I know, so allegedly. Allegedly. We have to say that

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Speaker 1: because he has never been convicted of anything criminally. It

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Speaker 1: is a movie. It's an hour and a half long,

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Speaker 1: so it's not super hard to sort of get into,

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Speaker 1: which is on Netflix as well. So that's biggrim yoga. Now.

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Speaker 1: I was really into Bickram in sort of the late

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Speaker 1: two thousand's, early twenty tens, and I actually looked into

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Speaker 1: doing teacher training. Now. The majority of this documentary is

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Speaker 1: focused around the teacher training courses, which were absolutely brutal.

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Speaker 1: They cost about ten grand for a nine week course,

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Speaker 1: and he was intense, and they have all of his

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Speaker 1: footage of the sessions, and they're all packed in like sardines.

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Speaker 1: They're doing this yoga, He's walking around in these little speedos.

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Speaker 1: He sits on a throne. It's very like I'm the King.

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Speaker 1: The allegations against him started coming out in twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 1: so relatively recently. Now. There were always whispers about his

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Speaker 1: behavior early on, but I think probably around that Me

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Speaker 1: Too movement is when people started to feel more comfortable

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Speaker 1: to come forward because this guy was making a ton

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Speaker 1: of money off this trademark. Because Bickram, if you owned

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Speaker 1: a Big Crim studio, you had to be properly licensed

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Speaker 1: by Bigcrim Chandry. So he was driving around in rolls Royces,

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Speaker 1: he had a rolllex. He's very flamboyant, huge personality, and

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Speaker 1: the documentary basically looks at what went on behind the scenes. Now,

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Speaker 1: as I said, there are some sexual assault allegations against him,

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Speaker 1: and I wi give a spoiler away. I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's too much of a spoiler. But it's not the

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Speaker 1: ending that we really want, is all I'll say. But

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Speaker 1: the reason I brought it up is because, like what

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Speaker 1: you said, I didn't know the background behind Bitcram yoga.

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Speaker 1: Before this documentary, all I knew was it was twenty

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Speaker 1: six postures. I always used to do it. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know anything about him specifically, like I knew he was

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Speaker 1: the one that created I'm using quotation marks created because again,

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Speaker 1: yoga is an ancient practice. Each of these postures have

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Speaker 1: been used within the yogo sphere for a very long time.

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Speaker 1: But the sequence of poses is what he trademarked Fascinating guy,

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Speaker 1: and it kind of leans into that cult territory and

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Speaker 1: goes into the power that he had over his pupils.

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Speaker 2: It's so interesting, right because I too love a cult documentary.

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Speaker 2: And what do we know about cults is there's usually

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Speaker 2: one or two very charismatic leaders. Everybody buys into the

401
00:21:07,664 --> 00:21:10,344
Speaker 2: same belief system or practice or whatever it may be

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Speaker 2: they're peddling. Because enne, you were going to become a

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Speaker 2: yoga teacher, which I love for you. What stopped you

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Speaker 2: from doing it?

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Speaker 1: Honestly, it was such a fleeting thought. I literally googled it.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't even I could barely touch my toes. I

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Speaker 1: was never going to be a yoga teacher.

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Speaker 2: It was just the time that I wanted to be

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Speaker 2: a flight attendant, but then I realized that I don't

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Speaker 2: love flying.

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Speaker 1: It was just like a fleeting thing. I looked it

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Speaker 1: up once. I was never a serious thing that I

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Speaker 1: was going to do, but it was when I was

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Speaker 1: going to this particular studio twice a week, and then

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Speaker 1: that ended three months later because I have no attention span.

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Speaker 1: But it's a fascinating documentary. He is a really, really

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Speaker 1: big personality and it's quite shocking, and it made me

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Speaker 1: never want to do Bickram again.

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Speaker 2: And she never walked into a hot room again. If

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Speaker 2: you have seen Bikram, or if you're about to jump

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Speaker 2: on that train, may I also recommend watching Wild World Country,

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Speaker 2: which is another great cult documentary. What is it about

423
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Speaker 2: these cult leaders and bloody rolls, royces and rolelexes, Like

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Speaker 2: it's so antithetical.

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Speaker 1: It's so interesting how they will often be preaching this

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Speaker 1: community lifestyle and then they're flashing all this money. It's

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Speaker 1: very bizarre in the same way. I think my other

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00:22:23,704 --> 00:22:25,824
Speaker 1: favorite cult documentary, We're not going to go down a

429
00:22:25,824 --> 00:22:28,424
Speaker 1: massive rabbit hole because I'm going to get in trouble.

430
00:22:28,744 --> 00:22:32,024
Speaker 1: But my other favorite is anything on the FLDS and

431
00:22:32,224 --> 00:22:38,704
Speaker 1: Warren Jeffs, because that man is an absolute sicko. Yeah,

432
00:22:39,944 --> 00:22:43,904
Speaker 1: that's the best way to do vaulting revolting man. But yes,

433
00:22:44,104 --> 00:22:45,744
Speaker 1: cults fascinating subject.

434
00:22:47,664 --> 00:22:51,864
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't even know how to transition Warren Jeffs

435
00:22:52,064 --> 00:22:57,784
Speaker 2: to cult of personality. Here we go, look out way,

436
00:22:57,904 --> 00:23:00,144
Speaker 2: Let's see if I can back that up. Okay, I

437
00:23:00,184 --> 00:23:03,904
Speaker 2: want to talk about The Greatest Party That Never Happened.

438
00:23:03,984 --> 00:23:07,944
Speaker 2: That is the title of the twenty nineteen Netflix documentary Fire,

439
00:23:08,184 --> 00:23:10,744
Speaker 2: the Greatest Party That Never Happened, because and do you

440
00:23:10,744 --> 00:23:17,504
Speaker 2: remember in late twenty sixteen early twenty seventeen, Instagram influencers, models,

441
00:23:17,544 --> 00:23:21,104
Speaker 2: celebrities started posting these orange tiles on Instagram.

442
00:23:21,384 --> 00:23:23,664
Speaker 1: I know exactly which one you're talking about. There's two

443
00:23:23,704 --> 00:23:27,024
Speaker 1: of them around the same festival there is.

444
00:23:27,224 --> 00:23:31,904
Speaker 2: So I'm talking specifically about Netflix's documentary. The other doco

445
00:23:31,984 --> 00:23:34,904
Speaker 2: that you're referring to is Fire Fraud, and both of

446
00:23:34,904 --> 00:23:38,984
Speaker 2: them center on what was the meteoric rise and then

447
00:23:39,184 --> 00:23:43,744
Speaker 2: chaotic downfall of the Fire Festival, aka The Greatest Party

448
00:23:43,824 --> 00:23:47,984
Speaker 2: That Never Happened. What started out was a guy named

449
00:23:47,984 --> 00:23:51,904
Speaker 2: Billy McFarland. He wanted to promote his new artist booking app,

450
00:23:52,104 --> 00:23:54,384
Speaker 2: Fire app and he thought, what better way to do

451
00:23:54,464 --> 00:23:58,344
Speaker 2: it than to throw the most exclusive music festival in

452
00:23:58,384 --> 00:24:00,664
Speaker 2: the world. He bought an island, or he rented out

453
00:24:00,664 --> 00:24:03,984
Speaker 2: an island that they kept telling us was Pablo Escovar's island.

454
00:24:04,424 --> 00:24:08,624
Speaker 2: People were spending ridiculous money to come to this music festival.

455
00:24:08,624 --> 00:24:11,584
Speaker 2: They were promised artists like Blink one eight two and

456
00:24:11,624 --> 00:24:16,184
Speaker 2: these like luxurious accommodation on this beautiful island in the Bahamas.

457
00:24:16,424 --> 00:24:18,624
Speaker 2: Cut a long story short, it was all like a

458
00:24:18,704 --> 00:24:21,904
Speaker 2: croc of shit. Basically, it didn't exist. These artists were

459
00:24:21,944 --> 00:24:25,144
Speaker 2: never booked in. And where the documentary picks up is

460
00:24:25,184 --> 00:24:28,424
Speaker 2: what happens when people who paid tickets, who sold all

461
00:24:28,464 --> 00:24:31,424
Speaker 2: of their possessions to go to this party, what happens

462
00:24:31,424 --> 00:24:34,104
Speaker 2: when they arrive at the island. That's where the documentary starts.

463
00:24:34,224 --> 00:24:38,584
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know they're sleeping in tents, eating cheese sandwiches.

464
00:24:39,184 --> 00:24:42,624
Speaker 1: There's no water, there's no plumbing, like it was a

465
00:24:42,784 --> 00:24:44,944
Speaker 1: complete and arter disaster.

466
00:24:45,544 --> 00:24:48,144
Speaker 2: I'm glad that you bring up the cheese bread because

467
00:24:48,184 --> 00:24:50,904
Speaker 2: I literally have the note here. The photo of the

468
00:24:50,984 --> 00:24:53,824
Speaker 2: cheese on bread that went viral was the beginning of

469
00:24:53,984 --> 00:24:57,304
Speaker 2: the end. So people were so jealous of like the

470
00:24:57,344 --> 00:24:59,744
Speaker 2: wealthy and the elite and people who could afford to

471
00:24:59,784 --> 00:25:03,384
Speaker 2: go to this festival. They'd drawn the ire of netizens everywhere,

472
00:25:03,464 --> 00:25:05,144
Speaker 2: right because everybody wanted to be a part of this.

473
00:25:05,264 --> 00:25:08,144
Speaker 2: Everybody bought into the hype and the fame. And then

474
00:25:08,144 --> 00:25:10,864
Speaker 2: when we started to slowly get these images, like he said,

475
00:25:10,904 --> 00:25:14,064
Speaker 2: no running water, femur tents were popping up, which is

476
00:25:14,104 --> 00:25:16,424
Speaker 2: like what they give people in disaster relief, Like if

477
00:25:16,424 --> 00:25:19,384
Speaker 2: you've ever seen a hurricane situation in the US, these

478
00:25:19,384 --> 00:25:21,224
Speaker 2: are the tents that they put people in who've been

479
00:25:21,264 --> 00:25:24,544
Speaker 2: displaced because their houses have been ripped apart by the wind.

480
00:25:24,904 --> 00:25:27,664
Speaker 2: These tents were popping up. There were mattresses being soaked

481
00:25:27,704 --> 00:25:30,584
Speaker 2: in the rain. Again, like none of these artists had

482
00:25:30,584 --> 00:25:32,424
Speaker 2: been booked, Like blink on it too. I think had

483
00:25:32,424 --> 00:25:34,944
Speaker 2: to go on the record and be like, hey, no idea,

484
00:25:34,984 --> 00:25:36,544
Speaker 2: what's going on here. By the way, one of our

485
00:25:36,584 --> 00:25:39,784
Speaker 2: members hates flying, so that was just never gonna happen.

486
00:25:40,944 --> 00:25:44,944
Speaker 2: All these models like in the Bahamas, the most insane

487
00:25:44,984 --> 00:25:46,904
Speaker 2: festival the world has ever seen.

488
00:25:47,264 --> 00:25:49,104
Speaker 1: Island get Away turned disaster.

489
00:25:49,344 --> 00:25:52,104
Speaker 2: It became very far bearing right now.

490
00:25:54,144 --> 00:25:59,424
Speaker 1: Of everything American rappers are rule isn't the Bahamas with

491
00:25:59,544 --> 00:26:02,904
Speaker 1: his business partner Willie mc is an amazing entrepreneur.

492
00:26:02,944 --> 00:26:04,784
Speaker 2: He could convince anyone a pretty much anything.

493
00:26:05,144 --> 00:26:07,864
Speaker 1: They just bought an island, Pablo Ascabora's island.

494
00:26:07,904 --> 00:26:12,464
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it became this louting mentality. There's an

495
00:26:12,504 --> 00:26:14,544
Speaker 2: angry mob. They're pissed off and they want their.

496
00:26:14,424 --> 00:26:18,264
Speaker 3: Money to power for Mordels built this festival and then

497
00:26:18,304 --> 00:26:21,544
Speaker 3: one picture of cheese on ters thriped down the festival.

498
00:26:22,384 --> 00:26:25,104
Speaker 2: The reason I loved this documentary in particular is because

499
00:26:25,144 --> 00:26:27,224
Speaker 2: they get to speak to the people who were involved, right.

500
00:26:27,264 --> 00:26:30,384
Speaker 2: So they speak to Billy McFarland, who eventually, like was

501
00:26:30,464 --> 00:26:34,624
Speaker 2: convicted of wire fraud and connection to the failed festival, who,

502
00:26:34,624 --> 00:26:37,584
Speaker 2: by the way, like still maintains that it was great

503
00:26:37,664 --> 00:26:39,384
Speaker 2: and I think he actually attempted to do a fire

504
00:26:39,464 --> 00:26:42,664
Speaker 2: two point zero. They also speak to jar Ruhl, who

505
00:26:42,704 --> 00:26:44,744
Speaker 2: was the other person involved in this which is just

506
00:26:44,784 --> 00:26:48,344
Speaker 2: actually crazy. And then Andy King, who became like the

507
00:26:48,424 --> 00:26:52,584
Speaker 2: unsung hero viral meme to come out of the whole

508
00:26:52,584 --> 00:26:55,224
Speaker 2: fire festival debacle. Do you remember the water bottle story?

509
00:26:55,384 --> 00:26:57,064
Speaker 1: That's why I brought up the water bottles.

510
00:26:59,304 --> 00:27:01,624
Speaker 2: Bless his soul. Yeah, I mean he was involved in

511
00:27:01,664 --> 00:27:02,824
Speaker 2: a terrible thing, but.

512
00:27:02,784 --> 00:27:05,984
Speaker 1: Still, yeah, he basically offered to give a sexual favor

513
00:27:06,064 --> 00:27:07,304
Speaker 1: in return for water bottles.

514
00:27:07,664 --> 00:27:09,584
Speaker 2: Like that's the level of pressure that the people on

515
00:27:09,624 --> 00:27:11,584
Speaker 2: this team were under. It, Like they just were fed

516
00:27:11,664 --> 00:27:15,184
Speaker 2: this lie and then eventually people started to cotton on that,

517
00:27:15,264 --> 00:27:18,064
Speaker 2: like maybe the organizer wasn't all he was cracked up

518
00:27:18,104 --> 00:27:20,864
Speaker 2: to be, Maybe this was all a bit of a hoax,

519
00:27:21,104 --> 00:27:23,224
Speaker 2: but they were too deep at this point. It's like

520
00:27:23,264 --> 00:27:26,584
Speaker 2: watching that car crash moment where you're like, oh, something

521
00:27:26,584 --> 00:27:29,384
Speaker 2: bad's gonna happen, but we're so far in it and

522
00:27:29,464 --> 00:27:30,624
Speaker 2: I was just got to see it through.

523
00:27:30,704 --> 00:27:32,624
Speaker 1: I think also the reason that this was such a

524
00:27:32,624 --> 00:27:36,464
Speaker 1: cultural moment was because all of these celebrities had backed

525
00:27:36,504 --> 00:27:39,544
Speaker 1: it and were paid to post about it. So, you know,

526
00:27:39,584 --> 00:27:42,784
Speaker 1: he had hired all these models like Kylie, Kendall, Jenna,

527
00:27:42,904 --> 00:27:45,744
Speaker 1: like all of these people were involved in posting for

528
00:27:45,784 --> 00:27:49,024
Speaker 1: this festival, and then they get the backlash because they're like,

529
00:27:49,024 --> 00:27:51,944
Speaker 1: why would you promote something when you showed us this

530
00:27:52,064 --> 00:27:56,024
Speaker 1: like crazy experience and it wasn't like that at all.

531
00:27:56,624 --> 00:27:59,824
Speaker 1: So it kind of brought in a lot of other

532
00:27:59,944 --> 00:28:03,784
Speaker 1: celebrities into the mix. What I think is also interesting

533
00:28:03,864 --> 00:28:06,624
Speaker 1: and a little there was a bit of crossover between

534
00:28:06,704 --> 00:28:09,744
Speaker 1: Billy and Anna Delvi. Yeah, tell us more about that

535
00:28:10,504 --> 00:28:13,664
Speaker 1: del if you don't know, she's the other wonderful fraudster

536
00:28:13,704 --> 00:28:16,424
Speaker 1: who pretended that she was an millionaire heiress. There is

537
00:28:16,464 --> 00:28:18,424
Speaker 1: a doco on her, there's a movie on her, like

538
00:28:18,984 --> 00:28:23,584
Speaker 1: they've done bits on her on SNL and a podcast

539
00:28:23,624 --> 00:28:28,064
Speaker 1: which is also great. And she basically conned people into

540
00:28:28,104 --> 00:28:32,664
Speaker 1: thinking she was very, very wealthy and skipped from hotel

541
00:28:32,744 --> 00:28:36,224
Speaker 1: to hotel, never paying bills, promising people she'd pay money back.

542
00:28:36,824 --> 00:28:39,704
Speaker 1: But for some reason she crossed over with Billy while

543
00:28:39,704 --> 00:28:43,584
Speaker 1: he was planning fire festival and slept on his couch

544
00:28:43,664 --> 00:28:45,064
Speaker 1: or something was such in a spare room in his

545
00:28:45,264 --> 00:28:49,104
Speaker 1: house or something. But yeah, funny little crossover of two fraudsters.

546
00:28:49,704 --> 00:28:52,344
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hate that, to be honest, But I mean,

547
00:28:52,584 --> 00:28:54,744
Speaker 2: do I expect nothing less from like you feel like

548
00:28:54,744 --> 00:28:56,984
Speaker 2: a fraud meetup in New York City group because I

549
00:28:56,984 --> 00:28:59,184
Speaker 2: feel like they would be the two people I would

550
00:28:59,224 --> 00:28:59,984
Speaker 2: expect to see.

551
00:28:59,784 --> 00:29:02,264
Speaker 1: That, honestly New York In I lived in New York

552
00:29:02,304 --> 00:29:05,184
Speaker 1: in twenty thirteen, and I would get promoters stopping me

553
00:29:05,224 --> 00:29:06,704
Speaker 1: on the street being like you need to come to

554
00:29:06,744 --> 00:29:08,904
Speaker 1: this club with me. That is like the vibe of

555
00:29:08,944 --> 00:29:12,624
Speaker 1: what New York was like in that scene as well.

556
00:29:13,224 --> 00:29:16,304
Speaker 1: And he I think, just really, I think just ran

557
00:29:16,504 --> 00:29:20,904
Speaker 1: with the whole I'm really cool and everything's exclusive. I'm exclusive,

558
00:29:21,024 --> 00:29:23,144
Speaker 1: just pretending of the whole time until it all came

559
00:29:23,184 --> 00:29:23,824
Speaker 1: crashing down.

560
00:29:24,304 --> 00:29:27,464
Speaker 2: Yeah, hard agree with you. Fire the Greatest Party That

561
00:29:27,544 --> 00:29:30,384
Speaker 2: Never Happened. It's on Netflix. Also check out Fire Fraud

562
00:29:30,504 --> 00:29:33,704
Speaker 2: as well. All right, kis Senya bring us home? What's

563
00:29:33,744 --> 00:29:34,544
Speaker 2: your final.

564
00:29:34,264 --> 00:29:36,504
Speaker 1: Reco Okay, I'm going to keep this one tight and

565
00:29:36,544 --> 00:29:39,624
Speaker 1: I'm going to end it on a really heartwarming, lovely note.

566
00:29:39,664 --> 00:29:43,544
Speaker 1: And it is the Oscar winning My Octopus Teacher from

567
00:29:43,584 --> 00:29:44,384
Speaker 1: twenty twenty.

568
00:29:44,824 --> 00:29:47,544
Speaker 2: Okay, when you say those words, what comes to mind

569
00:29:48,184 --> 00:29:51,104
Speaker 2: is the Wiggles, the octopus from the Wiggles. I don't

570
00:29:51,104 --> 00:29:52,224
Speaker 2: think that's what it's about, though.

571
00:29:52,264 --> 00:29:54,864
Speaker 1: It's not about Henry the Octopus. One thing Oscar in

572
00:29:54,864 --> 00:29:58,264
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one for Best Documentary Feature. So it's centers

573
00:29:58,304 --> 00:30:02,304
Speaker 1: around Craig Foster. Now he lives in South Africa and

574
00:30:02,464 --> 00:30:05,464
Speaker 1: he starts doing some free diving in this sort of

575
00:30:05,584 --> 00:30:10,504
Speaker 1: kelp forest and on one of his expeditions, he meets

576
00:30:10,504 --> 00:30:14,464
Speaker 1: this little octopuse, and then he starts visiting her every

577
00:30:14,504 --> 00:30:19,024
Speaker 1: single day, and he starts finding out her strategies. He

578
00:30:19,144 --> 00:30:24,064
Speaker 1: sees how intelligent she is. He sees how she camouflages

579
00:30:24,064 --> 00:30:29,104
Speaker 1: herself from predators, she uses utensils to hide behind. She

580
00:30:29,224 --> 00:30:33,224
Speaker 1: uses him to like very very very intelligent creature's octopuses.

581
00:30:33,544 --> 00:30:35,544
Speaker 1: And over the course of a year, he kind of

582
00:30:35,584 --> 00:30:39,144
Speaker 1: develops a relationship with this octopuse and she comes up

583
00:30:39,144 --> 00:30:43,224
Speaker 1: to him and she starts like interacting with him and

584
00:30:43,704 --> 00:30:48,304
Speaker 1: touching him and exploring his face, and she recognizes him.

585
00:30:48,544 --> 00:30:51,904
Speaker 1: She knows who he is, and it's really important to know.

586
00:30:51,944 --> 00:30:53,904
Speaker 1: At the beginning of his documentary, Craig is not in

587
00:30:53,944 --> 00:30:56,704
Speaker 1: a good place mentally. He is really struggling with his

588
00:30:56,744 --> 00:30:58,424
Speaker 1: life and feeling really lost.

589
00:30:59,384 --> 00:31:02,224
Speaker 3: A lot of people said an octopus is sech an alien,

590
00:31:03,304 --> 00:31:06,864
Speaker 3: But the strange thing is, as he gets closer to them,

591
00:31:07,304 --> 00:31:12,624
Speaker 3: he realized that you're very similar in the ways. I

592
00:31:12,744 --> 00:31:17,224
Speaker 3: hadn't been a person that was overly sentimental towards animals

593
00:31:17,264 --> 00:31:22,184
Speaker 3: before I realized I was changing. My relationship with people

594
00:31:22,264 --> 00:31:27,504
Speaker 3: with humans was changing. What she taught me was to

595
00:31:27,584 --> 00:31:31,824
Speaker 3: feel that you're part of this place, not a visitor.

596
00:31:34,544 --> 00:31:37,824
Speaker 1: It's a really beautiful story about being in touch with

597
00:31:37,904 --> 00:31:42,304
Speaker 1: nature and that connection with nature. It also encouraged me

598
00:31:42,384 --> 00:31:45,704
Speaker 1: to never eat octopus again because I cannot believe how

599
00:31:45,744 --> 00:31:49,144
Speaker 1: incredibly intelligent these creatures are. Have you seen those videos

600
00:31:49,144 --> 00:31:52,144
Speaker 1: of octopi opening like jars and things like that.

601
00:31:52,584 --> 00:31:54,424
Speaker 2: No, what I have seen the videos of them like

602
00:31:54,504 --> 00:31:56,664
Speaker 2: predicting major sport and world events.

603
00:31:56,944 --> 00:31:59,504
Speaker 1: Okay, I think we're on different sides of the Internet.

604
00:32:01,104 --> 00:32:05,504
Speaker 2: I love that this documentary Kusenna is equal parts environment documentary,

605
00:32:05,544 --> 00:32:07,504
Speaker 2: which I love that you've been able to slide in

606
00:32:07,584 --> 00:32:09,824
Speaker 2: because I was never going to be the person to

607
00:32:09,904 --> 00:32:13,024
Speaker 2: recommend David Attenborough, although I do think he's fantastic. I

608
00:32:13,064 --> 00:32:16,184
Speaker 2: love that it's equal parts environment to nature documentary, but

609
00:32:16,264 --> 00:32:19,904
Speaker 2: also like it's a story of connection, absolutely in an

610
00:32:19,984 --> 00:32:20,864
Speaker 2: unlikely place.

611
00:32:21,024 --> 00:32:25,144
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And this was released in twenty twenty, again during

612
00:32:25,184 --> 00:32:28,024
Speaker 1: the pandemic. Neither of us brought up Tiger King, and

613
00:32:28,064 --> 00:32:31,184
Speaker 1: I think that was on purpose. But you know, twenty

614
00:32:31,184 --> 00:32:35,944
Speaker 1: twenty was a great time for documentaries. It's a really beautiful, heartwarming,

615
00:32:36,704 --> 00:32:40,584
Speaker 1: feel good documentary, and you're right, it is about that

616
00:32:40,624 --> 00:32:43,824
Speaker 1: sort of connection with nature and how important that is

617
00:32:44,024 --> 00:32:48,064
Speaker 1: for humans. Have you ever heard of the term grounding. Yeah,

618
00:32:48,264 --> 00:32:50,464
Speaker 1: it's a good grounding doco. Go put your feet in

619
00:32:50,504 --> 00:32:53,224
Speaker 1: some dirt and like experienced nature.

620
00:32:53,624 --> 00:32:56,304
Speaker 2: Yeah, look at an octopus. Yeah, if you learn nothing

621
00:32:56,304 --> 00:32:59,584
Speaker 2: else from this episode, look at an octopus or octopi,

622
00:32:59,864 --> 00:33:02,464
Speaker 2: octopi and think twice about Big Romeo girl.

623
00:33:02,744 --> 00:33:05,384
Speaker 1: Yes, well that was a nice quick one at the end,

624
00:33:05,424 --> 00:33:07,024
Speaker 1: but I think we have run out of time, even

625
00:33:07,064 --> 00:33:10,184
Speaker 1: though I could probably talk to you about documentaries forever.

626
00:33:10,544 --> 00:33:13,984
Speaker 1: It's a huge passion point of mine. If you feel

627
00:33:13,984 --> 00:33:17,384
Speaker 1: like we've missed any, definitely send us a DM at

628
00:33:17,584 --> 00:33:22,544
Speaker 1: the Spill Instagram or TikTok. But yeah, Taylor, thank you

629
00:33:22,624 --> 00:33:25,064
Speaker 1: for giving us your take.

630
00:33:25,464 --> 00:33:27,064
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I love

631
00:33:27,104 --> 00:33:29,344
Speaker 2: that every time we do this, because Senya, we have

632
00:33:29,664 --> 00:33:33,024
Speaker 2: such glaringly different tastes and that's perfect. It gives the

633
00:33:33,064 --> 00:33:34,504
Speaker 2: Spillers variety.

634
00:33:34,704 --> 00:33:37,344
Speaker 1: I know, it's great. It's we a very, very, very

635
00:33:37,344 --> 00:33:40,024
Speaker 1: different taste. But actually this one wasn't too different.

636
00:33:40,224 --> 00:33:42,424
Speaker 2: I feel like we aligned at the end of the Yeah. Yeah,

637
00:33:42,544 --> 00:33:43,704
Speaker 2: Louis Thuru will do that to you.

638
00:33:43,944 --> 00:33:45,064
Speaker 1: He's the ultimate connector.

639
00:33:45,304 --> 00:33:47,784
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us on the Spill today. Kissenya,

640
00:33:47,824 --> 00:33:49,384
Speaker 2: thank you very much for having me back.

641
00:33:50,104 --> 00:33:50,904
Speaker 1: Was the best.

642
00:33:51,064 --> 00:33:53,944
Speaker 2: Loved it keeping Laura Brodneck's seat warm for her. But

643
00:33:53,984 --> 00:33:56,104
Speaker 2: do not worry, she is back tomorrow. And of course

644
00:33:56,224 --> 00:33:58,864
Speaker 2: make sure you're following the Spill guys. Everything going on

645
00:33:58,904 --> 00:34:01,904
Speaker 2: at the Instagram, also at TikTok at the Spill podcast.

646
00:34:02,304 --> 00:34:06,384
Speaker 2: The Spill is produced by manishits Warren, with sound production

647
00:34:06,424 --> 00:34:09,424
Speaker 2: by Scott Stronik and video production by Michael Keene. And

648
00:34:09,464 --> 00:34:11,784
Speaker 2: these folks will see you back in your favorite podcast

649
00:34:11,824 --> 00:34:13,824
Speaker 2: feed from three o'clock tomorrow.

650
00:34:14,304 --> 00:34:20,984
Speaker 1: Bye Bye,