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Speaker 1: You're listening to i'm Ama Mia podcast. After weeks of

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Speaker 1: military build up and public threats and retaliatory language from

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Speaker 1: the American and Iranian leaders, Israel and the US launched

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Speaker 1: a coordinated attack on Iran over the weekend. The world

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Speaker 1: knew it was coming. US President Donald Trump had sent,

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Speaker 1: in his own words, Anna Marta to the region to

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Speaker 1: pressure Iran into signing a deal to hold all plans

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Speaker 1: for nuclear weapons creation. But as talks broke down last week,

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Speaker 1: tensions escalated, culminating in strikes that hit major targets and

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Speaker 1: took the life of Iran's leader. So what implications does

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Speaker 1: this have for the region, for those countries like Australia

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Speaker 1: who backed the US in this military operation, and for

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Speaker 1: those who share borders with Iran? And will the regime

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Speaker 1: change that the people of Iran have been protesting and

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Speaker 1: putting their lives on the line for be the solution

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Speaker 1: they've been waiting for. Before we get into that, he's

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Speaker 1: the letters from the Quickie newsroom Monday to Australian Travel

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Speaker 1: Industry Association Chief Executive Dean long As worn travelers transitting

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Speaker 1: through the Middle East to expect delays and re routing

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Speaker 1: for the foreseeable future. Mister Long said the sheer volume

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Speaker 1: of the backlog, estimated at over two hundred thousand stranded

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Speaker 1: passengers globally, will take weeks, not days to fully clear.

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Speaker 1: Morning Australians not to cancel flights, even to nations upgraded

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Speaker 1: to do not travel wardings, saying let the airline or

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Speaker 1: tour operator make that call if they cannot provide the

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Speaker 1: service because it's unsafe, your rights are better protected. Virgin

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Speaker 1: Australia confirmed on the weekend that four of its flights

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Speaker 1: bound for Doha had to turn around and return to Australia,

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Speaker 1: and a number of flights operated by Qatar Airways had

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Speaker 1: been canceled. Iran, Iraq, Israel, Syria, Kwait and the United

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Speaker 1: Arab Emirates all announced at least partial closures of their skies,

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Speaker 1: with anyone traveling to the region or transiting through to

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Speaker 1: closely monitor their flight situation and stay in touch with

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Speaker 1: their airline for Informa. It's usually the driest town in Australia,

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Speaker 1: but Udna Data has been left a muddy sea after

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Speaker 1: being hit by an inland big wet that's claimed the

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Speaker 1: life of one man. The motorbike rider went missing after

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Speaker 1: trying to cross a flooded creek at Euralia in South

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Speaker 1: Australia's Flinders Ranges on Sunday morning. The forty seven year

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Speaker 1: old's body was later recovered as severe weather warnings and

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Speaker 1: flash flooding alerts remain in place across the region and

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Speaker 1: much of Australia's inland southeast. Locals say it hasn't rained

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Speaker 1: that much since the nineteen eighties. Nicole Castanaro, who works

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Speaker 1: at the roadhouse, says the roads are closed, We're running

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Speaker 1: out of food and if the trucks can't get through,

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Speaker 1: we'll be stuck eating baked beans for the foreseeable future.

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Speaker 1: UDNA data received nearly eighteen millimeters of rain overnight, or

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Speaker 1: more than ten percent of its average annual rainfall. There's

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Speaker 1: no immediate and insight to the huge storm system as

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Speaker 1: it passed through central Australia, bringing widespread downfalls and flash flooding.

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Speaker 1: The Bureau of Meteorologies Dean Narramore said heavy thunderstorms and

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Speaker 1: flooding are expected to continue until at least Monday night.

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Speaker 1: Michael Jackson's estate is being sued for child sex trafficking.

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Speaker 1: Siblings Edward Dominic Marie, Nicole and Aldo Caskio assuing the

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Speaker 1: late King of Pop's estate after alleging that Jackson groomed

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Speaker 1: and brainwashed them when they were miners. In a legal

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Speaker 1: complaint obtained by People, the siblings alleged they met Jackson

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Speaker 1: through their father, who worked at a luxury hotel visited

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Speaker 1: by the late star. They claimed Jackson went on to

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Speaker 1: supply them with drugs and alcohol, expose them to pornography,

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Speaker 1: and abuse them from when they were as young as

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Speaker 1: seven or eight. Attorney Marty Singer, who represents the Jackson estate,

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Speaker 1: told People in a statement that they deny all allegations

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Speaker 1: against Jackson and called the lawsuit a desperate money grab

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Speaker 1: by additional members of the Caskio family who've hopped on

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Speaker 1: the bandwagon with their brother Frank, who's already being sued

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Speaker 1: in arbitration for civil extortion. A first half header from

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Speaker 1: Sam curse Or the Matilda's win a frustrating one near

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Speaker 1: Asian Cup opener in Perth over the Philippines in front

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Speaker 1: of more than forty four thousand fans at Opta Stadium,

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Speaker 1: Matilda's captain Ker scored in the fourteenth minute for her

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Speaker 1: first international goal since November twenty twenty three and her

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Speaker 1: seventieth overall, but the Philippines damage controlled tactics proved too

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Speaker 1: tricky to crack beyond that, with the Matildas not able

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Speaker 1: to add to their tally in a result that could

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Speaker 1: prove costly if positions come down to goal difference. The

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Speaker 1: Matildas will be back in action on Thursday against Iran

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Speaker 1: on the Gold Coast, before rounding out their group stage

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Speaker 1: against South Korea in Sydney next Sunday. That's what's happening

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Speaker 1: in the world today. Next we crossed to a journalist

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Speaker 1: on the ground to see what's happening in Iran. The

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Speaker 1: coordinated attack on Iran this past weekend by both US

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Speaker 1: and Israeli forces is not the first shots fired in

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Speaker 1: this latest escalation of tensions in the region. Back in

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Speaker 1: April twenty twenty four, Israel launched missiles in to an

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Speaker 1: Iranian diplomatic compound in Damascus that housed the Revolutionary Guards,

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Speaker 1: killing Iranian commanders. Iran responded by launching three hundred drones

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Speaker 1: into Israel. They managed to shoot most of them down

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Speaker 1: before they could do any major damage, but this marked

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Speaker 1: a major change in the tensions between the two countries

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Speaker 1: until this point, they're chosen to fight each other through others,

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Speaker 1: Iran supporting Hamas in Gaza, for example, Syrian and Iraqi

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Speaker 1: militias or Hesbalar in Lebanon, striking Israel by backing those

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Speaker 1: who fought against them. In mid twenty twenty five, after

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Speaker 1: months of a rising tensions around Iran's advancement of their

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Speaker 1: nuclear program, Israel launched an airstrike on uranium and Richmond

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Speaker 1: facilities in Iran. Iran responded by sending wave after wave

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Speaker 1: of drones at Israeli cities, causing casualties on both sides

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Speaker 1: and hitting critical infrastructure. The US formally enters the chat

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Speaker 1: in June twenty twenty five, using stealth bombers and a

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Speaker 1: guided missile submarine to hit deeply buried nuclear sites in

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Speaker 1: Iran that Israel couldn't reach alone. Iran responds again by

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Speaker 1: attacking their Aludid Air base in Katar, something they were

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Speaker 1: very clear they would continue to do targeting US bases

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Speaker 1: if things escalate. A ceasefire is called on what has

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Speaker 1: now been dubbed the Twelve Day War, but with Iran's

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Speaker 1: nuclear capability damaged but not destroyed, the crux of the

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Speaker 1: issue remained through the end of twenty twenty five and

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Speaker 1: into twenty twenty six, talks about Iran seizing their nuclear

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Speaker 1: program start to break down. Donald Trump posted on social

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Speaker 1: media back in January that a massive armada is heading

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Speaker 1: to Iran, saying it is ready, willing, and able to

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Speaker 1: rapidly fulfill its mission with speed and violence if necessary.

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Speaker 1: The Iranian mission to the UN reminded mister Trump about

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Speaker 1: the last time the US, in their words, blunded into

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Speaker 1: wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. It squandered over seven trillion dollars,

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Speaker 1: they said, and lost more than seven thousand American lives.

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Speaker 1: They went on to say Iran stands ready for dialogue

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Speaker 1: based mutual respect and interests, but if pushed, they wrote,

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Speaker 1: it will defend itself and respond like never before. Yesterday,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump posted that the Ayatola Ali Hamani, the hardline

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Speaker 1: cleric who's been in charge in Iran since nineteen eighty nine,

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Speaker 1: had been killed in the attack. This was later confirmed

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Speaker 1: by Iranian state media. Videos posted from the ground in

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Speaker 1: Iran seems to show the people celebrating, But who takes

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Speaker 1: control of the country from here and what does that

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Speaker 1: look like for the broader region remains unclear. Yumna el

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Speaker 1: Said is a freelance journalist who was working on the

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Speaker 1: ground in Gaza before she was forced to flee to Egypt.

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Speaker 1: Yumna firstly, what has the response been like in Cairo?

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Speaker 2: Well, here in Cairo, there is a state of worry,

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Speaker 2: of course, especially that this conflict that is ongoing now

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Speaker 2: is not just in Iran or Israel, but also several

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Speaker 2: Golf countries are being affected. And this means that a

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Speaker 2: lot of people here, Egyptian nationals who work or have

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Speaker 2: families who work in these Gulf countries are affected by

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Speaker 2: what's going and everyone is really worried to see how

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Speaker 2: this continues, whether we're going to be witnessing any de

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Speaker 2: escalation in the short upcoming period or it's going to

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Speaker 2: get more complicated and you know, take us further into

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Speaker 2: a full scale war that affects the entire region.

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Speaker 1: For Australians waking up today, we haven't seen any de

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Speaker 1: escalation overnight. It seems to be continuing. What's been the

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Speaker 1: latest in the last twenty four hours since the US

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Speaker 1: and Israel began this operation in Iran.

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Speaker 2: Well, of course the US and Israel started by a

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Speaker 2: military operation against Iran.

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Speaker 3: It was pretty surprising actually for everyone, especially that this

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Speaker 3: operation took place suddenly while they are actually, you know,

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Speaker 3: they had just concluded a round of talks in Geneva

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Speaker 3: with the mediators involved like Oman.

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Speaker 2: And you know, the situation seemed somehow calm and that

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Speaker 2: there are still room for further negotiations to de escalate

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Speaker 2: the tensions that are ongoing between Israel, the US and Iran.

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Speaker 2: But as the situation now has gone out of hand

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Speaker 2: and we are witnessing these ongoing missiles flying from Israel

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Speaker 2: and from the US bass in the region, in the

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Speaker 2: Middle East region, we see a strong infierce Iranian retaliation

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Speaker 2: towards Israel and of course towards the US bases and

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Speaker 2: assets in the Middle East region, particularly in the Gulf countries.

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Speaker 2: In the first day of this of the beginning of

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Speaker 2: this military operation that was conducted against Iran, we have

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Speaker 2: seen not just the supreme leaders and political governmental leaders

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Speaker 2: been assassinated in the first day, but the Supreme Leader

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Speaker 2: of Iran himself, ayat La Kamini, has also been assassinated

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Speaker 2: in one of these attacks. The attacks have not just

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Speaker 2: been on nuclear sites in Iran, but have gone beyond

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Speaker 2: to target other governmental and even civilian infrastructure in Iran,

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Speaker 2: killing dozens of civilians and injuring dozens more. We know it.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes a flow of information out of Iran is not

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Speaker 1: great and we have to piece things together from what

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Speaker 1: we can see. But some videos that seem to have

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Speaker 1: been verified shows thousands of Iranians taking to the streets

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Speaker 1: in celebration, while others show those in mourning for the

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Speaker 1: death of Ayatollahmani. What do we underst stand about what's

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Speaker 1: actually happening inside Iran itself with the leaders now killed

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Speaker 1: in this attack and regime change happening, maybe not in

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Speaker 1: the way that we would think in the West, but

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Speaker 1: they do have to replace that leadership.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's not forget that this operation begins just as

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Speaker 2: we have witnessed in the past weeks, a lot of

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Speaker 2: protests and thousands of Iranians going to the streets protesting

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Speaker 2: against the government and against the leadership in Iran that

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Speaker 2: was Ayatu Lahamania and the leadership in Iran now. And

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Speaker 2: these protests have been going on for weeks and weeks

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Speaker 2: some of them or at some events, they were very violent,

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Speaker 2: and civilians have been killed in these protests. So now

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Speaker 2: there is already there was already the state of attention

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Speaker 2: within the country itself. Of course, there are supporters of

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Speaker 2: the previous leadership, and there are a lot of people

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Speaker 2: who are against the leadership that or the previous leadership

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Speaker 2: and are happy that they are finally, as the President

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Speaker 2: Trump puts it, this is their chance now to choose

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Speaker 2: a new leader to govern them, especially at this time. Now,

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Speaker 2: the real problem here, or the real question is, of course,

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Speaker 2: Iran is not a system that is designed to stop

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Speaker 2: in case of any such incidents happen, whether it's war

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Speaker 2: or assassination or so on. It's the system that is

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Speaker 2: designed for continuity. So here what is expected is that

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Speaker 2: the assembly of experts in Iran to assign the or

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Speaker 2: select the Supreme Leader, the new Supreme leader, and then

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Speaker 2: the system should go on to carry on with this

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Speaker 2: ongoing period and what comes next. But now the real

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Speaker 2: question is the leadership transition during an active conflict. Is

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Speaker 2: this succession going to be a smooth succession or are

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Speaker 2: there going to be the internal political factions that are

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Speaker 2: competing for power and influence now at this time, during

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Speaker 2: this very highly sensitive period in Iran that will try

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Speaker 2: to possess their power and take over.

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Speaker 1: We know that the US is very well funded, very

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Speaker 1: capable of conducting a war. We understand that Israel is

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Speaker 1: in the same position. How capable is the Iranian military

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Speaker 1: of holding off attacks by two very strong military countries.

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Speaker 2: Well, Iran basically has three main tools. Let's say. The

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Speaker 2: first one is it's a large ballistic missile arsenal and

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Speaker 2: it has a very advanced, strong capability. And the third

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Speaker 2: is the wide regional network of allied armed groups in

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Speaker 2: different countries in the region, including Iraq, Yemen and Lebanon

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Speaker 2: and even Syria, the armed groups of Iraq that have

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Speaker 2: already started launching military operations against the American bases and

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Speaker 2: assets in Iraq itself. So this wide network is a

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Speaker 2: very strong network for Iran that it that's on, you know,

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Speaker 2: in other countries away or far away from Iran itself

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Speaker 2: to conduct or to help Iran in its operation or

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Speaker 2: military operation against the US, especially.

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Speaker 1: Human I just get personal for a moment. What's it

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Speaker 1: like for you working as a journalist in this region

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Speaker 1: right now? You've already been forced to leave Gaza when

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Speaker 1: you're reporting there for the same give your family. That's

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Speaker 1: why you've been living in Cairo. What does it mean

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Speaker 1: for you to be reporting on things that are happening

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Speaker 1: in this region right now, especially as a woman in

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Speaker 1: this space to how hard is your job to report

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Speaker 1: on the facts coming out of this region right now?

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Speaker 2: Coming out of gas first, Claire was fully a survival decision.

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Speaker 2: It was the only decision I could take to make

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Speaker 2: sure that my children, my family remains alive. It has

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Speaker 2: had a very strong psychological toll on me, on my kids,

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Speaker 2: or my husband, or my family. It's very difficult also

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Speaker 2: the fact that you are somewhere in exile, you are

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Speaker 2: prevented from practicing your job as a journalist.

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Speaker 3: I try to do whatever I can do for my.

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Speaker 2: Own mental health, you know, you feel that you are

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Speaker 2: stranded because you can no longer work coming out of

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Speaker 2: Gaza to save my family, I've lost my job as

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Speaker 2: I'll Jazer a correspondent, so I'm not able to work

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Speaker 2: as a journalist here in Egypt. That really, you know,

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Speaker 2: just adds a lot of struggle, especially mentally to me.

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Speaker 2: I feel that physically I'm in a safe place, in

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Speaker 2: a safe zone, but I don't feel all right mentally

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Speaker 2: because you're a journalist' this is what you do. This

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Speaker 2: is your job to bear witness, to continue reporting, to

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Speaker 2: speak out, to inform. You know, I feel that I

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Speaker 2: am forced by force kept quiet.

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Speaker 1: Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi back to the US and

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Speaker 1: Israel's Iran attack, releasing a statement saying Australia stands with

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Speaker 1: the brave people of Iran in their struggle against depression.

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Speaker 1: The statement goes on to say for decades, the Iranian

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Speaker 1: regime has been a destabilizing force through its ballistic missile

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Speaker 1: and nuclear prog support for armed proxies, and brutal acts

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Speaker 1: of violence and intimidation. Mister Albinizi said, we support the

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Speaker 1: United States acting to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear

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Speaker 1: weapon and to prevent Iran continuing to threaten international peace

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Speaker 1: and security. It was later clarified that the Australian military

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Speaker 1: had played no part in the attack and we were

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Speaker 1: not informed prior to it taking place. So what does

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Speaker 1: this mean for all the countries involved, regardless of which

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Speaker 1: side they take. Jessica Genauer is an associate professor in

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Speaker 1: international relations at Flinders University. Jessica, what are the further

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Speaker 1: implications of this attack, would regime change be a significant

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Speaker 1: step for the people of Iran and how Iran is

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Speaker 1: seen by the broader world community.

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Speaker 4: So what's quite complex about this situation and unfortunate for

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Speaker 4: the people of Iran who have been calling for regime change,

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Speaker 4: is that it's going to be very difficult, if not

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Speaker 4: almost impossible, for military strikes from the air on Iranian

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Speaker 4: military ca capability or even political and security leaders to

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Speaker 4: actually affect regime change in a more sustainable way. And

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Speaker 4: that's because in order for them to be a change

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Speaker 4: of regime, you really need to put in place a

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Speaker 4: whole new political apparatus, a whole new security apparatus, which

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Speaker 4: goes along with political institutions and systems and structures that

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Speaker 4: would need to be completely overhauled. Now currently within Iran,

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Speaker 4: the instruments of the regime still have complete control over

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Speaker 4: security in the domestic Iranian environment, so essentially policing the

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Speaker 4: Iranian populations. They still have full control over political institutions

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Speaker 4: and structures, and the protesters whilst there are you know,

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Speaker 4: we think millions of people who are not happy with

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Speaker 4: the regime, and many of them have been out on

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Speaker 4: the streets. They don't really have any kind of organized

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Speaker 4: political structure or a kind of organized military, not even military,

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Speaker 4: but a sort of a militia or armed force that

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Speaker 4: could provide some kind of alternative to the current regime. So,

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Speaker 4: despite these strikes and the way that they are going

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Speaker 4: to reduce the capability of the current Ranian regime, I

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Speaker 4: don't really see the regime completely collapsing or being removed

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Speaker 4: from power now.

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Speaker 1: Australia and some are rather allies like Canada for example,

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Speaker 1: backed this attack by the US in Israel, but many

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Speaker 1: European leaders have not. Why is there that divide because

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Speaker 1: it does not seem like we're all on the same

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Speaker 1: page here.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. So the second Trump administration has really created quite

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Speaker 4: a lot of chaos in some ways in the international order.

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Speaker 4: And it didn't start with Trump. I mean, we have

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Speaker 4: been seeing shifts in the sort of international architecture for

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Speaker 4: some time now, but a second in Trump's second administration,

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Speaker 4: He's definitely accelerated that. And so we have seen a

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Speaker 4: few actions already from the Trump administration, such as capturing

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Speaker 4: the Venezuelan President Maduro, and then of course you know

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Speaker 4: strikes last year into Iran, and then these strikes which

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Speaker 4: haven't gone through the US Congress, they haven't gone through

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Speaker 4: the United Nations Security Council. So even if sometimes we

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Speaker 4: can be a bit cynical about, you know, the United

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Speaker 4: Nations or what they do or don't do, it's definitely

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Speaker 4: clear that the Trump administration is operating outside any kind

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Speaker 4: of semblance of trying to align with sort of an

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Speaker 4: international rules based order. So I think that's where it's

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Speaker 4: tricky for US allies around the world. You know, how

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Speaker 4: do we then respond to these actions, because we don't

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Speaker 4: want to overly condone them and say it's completely fine

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Speaker 4: for a powerful state to just basically do whatever they

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Speaker 4: want to do in the international arena in terms of

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Speaker 4: military operations. Interestingly, Olbernesi's government has actually come out relatively

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Speaker 4: supportive of this move. I was actually expecting them probably

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Speaker 4: to be slightly more moderate in their statements saying, you know,

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Speaker 4: something along the lines of, of course, the Iranian regime is

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Speaker 4: exceptionally brutal, and no body is supporting the Iranian regime

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Speaker 4: and the way they've been treating their populations. But at

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Speaker 4: the same time, we don't want to step too far

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Speaker 4: outside the bounds of being constrained by some kind of

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Speaker 4: international law or international order otherwise, you know, we might

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Speaker 4: support that in one instance, but in another instance, a

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Speaker 4: powerful actor, let's say, for example, China in our region

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Speaker 4: might start to look around the world and say, okay,

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Speaker 4: well we can see that nobody's even trying to be

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Speaker 4: constrained by an international order anymore. So that also leaves

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Speaker 4: us free, for example, to conduct a military operation visa

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Speaker 4: Vita one or something of that sort. So I think

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Speaker 4: generally we do want to try to still stick to

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Speaker 4: the principles. You know, in Australia is a strong middle

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Speaker 4: power of saying there should be some kind of adherence

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Speaker 4: to sort of an international law. But as you mentioned,

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Speaker 4: we've seen Australia and Canada coming out, you know, not

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Speaker 4: in sort of full throated support, but a little more

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Speaker 4: kind of supportive of the strike, certainly not condemning them.

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Speaker 4: And we've seen at the same time some European countries,

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Speaker 4: so France, the UK and Germany interestingly issuing a joint statement.

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Speaker 4: So I think trying to form some kind of counterpoint

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Speaker 4: now to US power with everything that's been happening, and

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Speaker 4: being a little stronger in not condemning but certainly not

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Speaker 4: condoning what's happening and basically saying we should go back

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Speaker 4: to diplomatic channels, we should go back to dialogue and

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Speaker 4: negotiations and try to find some kind of solution through

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Speaker 4: those mechanisms.

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Speaker 1: Just finally, just here, I think as Australians, many of

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Speaker 1: us are feeling some conflicted emotions about this attack by

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Speaker 1: Israel and the US on Iran because on the one hand,

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Speaker 1: we know that violence should be the last option, with

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Speaker 1: the fact that they were in the middle of talks

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Speaker 1: it did seem to be declining over the last week

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Speaker 1: or two in particular, But then also we saw you know,

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Speaker 1: Iranians taking to the streets and be brutally killed by

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Speaker 1: the regime or detained. So this feels difficult to protests.

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Speaker 1: We don't want what to happen, But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: what would it take for a regime changed to actually

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Speaker 1: happen in Iran? Because you know, Atola Chamade had been

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Speaker 1: in power.

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Speaker 4: For decades, That's exactly right. So that's where you know,

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Speaker 4: these sort of situations are very tricky and complex and

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Speaker 4: multi dimensional, and we kind of want to look at

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Speaker 4: them and see something more simple, like we want to

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Speaker 4: be able to identify, well, these are the bad actors,

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Speaker 4: you know, and if we remove them, then we're going

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Speaker 4: to just have a much better situation for everybody. But unfortunately,

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Speaker 4: it's usually always much more complex, and I think unfortunately,

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Speaker 4: you know, nobody liked to see the way the Iranian

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Speaker 4: regime was treating protesters in January. We had reports of

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Speaker 4: you know, tens of thousands of people potentially being killed

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Speaker 4: by their own regime, which is awful and horrible human

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Speaker 4: rights abuses. On the other hand, meeting violence with violence,

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Speaker 4: unfortunately oftentimes can have unintended consequences. So you know, going

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Speaker 4: out then in military strikes against the regime is not

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Speaker 4: necessarily creating a clear and sustainable pathway to a better regime,

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Speaker 4: and can have all sorts of other unintended, unintended consequences.

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Speaker 4: And I think a key issue here, which we do

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Speaker 4: see time and again in the international arena, and partly

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Speaker 4: why a lot of people are dissatisfied with the current

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Speaker 4: international order, is that we don't have very good instruments

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Speaker 4: or mechanisms to deal with violent actors in the international arena.

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Speaker 4: So to deal with violent conflict where it exists, we

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Speaker 4: sort of say, okay, we should have dialogue, We should

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Speaker 4: have negotiations. But where there are actors who are really

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Speaker 4: determined to engage in violence, either against their own populations

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Speaker 4: or against other populations, we don't really have good instruments

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Speaker 4: to deal with that. And then, as I said, you know,

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Speaker 4: meeting that violence with more violence doesn't always lead to

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Speaker 4: a better outcome unfortunately. So I think it's a matter

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Speaker 4: of developing probably better mechanisms, better instruments in the international

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Speaker 4: arena in future decades, hopefully as we go forward into

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Speaker 4: some kind of new emerging international order where maybe we

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Speaker 4: can have better ways to deal with conflict before it

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Speaker 4: escalates into all out violence, which has so many costs.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for taking the time to feed your mind with

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Speaker 1: us today. We'll keep you updated on this story as

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Speaker 1: it unfolds. The Quickie is produced by me Claire Murphy

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Speaker 1: and Taylor Strano. Our Group executive producer is a Laria Brophy,

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Speaker 1: with audio production by Lou Hill. Mumma Mea acknowledges the

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Speaker 1: traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is

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Speaker 1: recorded on