Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello, and welcome to
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia Out Loud and to our Friday's show where
Speaker 2: we take a break from the news cycle and breathe out.
Speaker 3: Today.
Speaker 2: It's Friday, the twenty third of August, and I'm Holly Wainwright,
Speaker 2: I'm mea Friedman.
Speaker 4: And I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 2: And on the show today getting dumped and getting over it?
Speaker 2: Do celebrities know more about heartbreak than civilians?
Speaker 1: J Love Jaylo, one.
Speaker 2: Of our reporters found out, and we have our own
Speaker 2: advice for her fashion icon. Jesse Stevens has a clothing recommendation,
Speaker 2: I want you all to watch a free TV show.
Speaker 2: And Mia has a book she loves that she thought
Speaker 2: she'd hate. And absent spouse is an unexpected slumber party
Speaker 2: and some vomit. No, it wasn't me.
Speaker 3: A Freedman's logis night.
Speaker 2: It's our bests and worse of the week. But first,
Speaker 2: Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 4: In case he missed it, there is a word you
Speaker 4: can no longer call your colleague. Maya, are you listening.
Speaker 1: Well, there's so many there are I am I allowed
Speaker 1: to use the S word even though I do use
Speaker 1: it as a term of effection.
Speaker 4: Get your pen out and write this down. And Ossie
Speaker 4: mayor named Tom Tate has now formally apologized for a
Speaker 4: word he used to describe a colleague. He thought it
Speaker 4: was a lighthearted comment, but it ended up prompting a
Speaker 4: full blown investigation. So what did he call MP John
Speaker 4: Paul Langbrook? He called him a ranger In a press conference,
Speaker 4: Tate said, you know, lose one ranger, get another ranger.
Speaker 4: What the hell that's what the Gold Coast is all about.
Speaker 4: I don't understand.
Speaker 1: He's so hashtagged at diversity. Yes quite Gold Coast.
Speaker 4: Tom Tate did. But the Office of the Independent Assessor
Speaker 4: we're not impressed in its determination. They said. While the
Speaker 4: conduct may well be argued to be in jest or
Speaker 4: intended to be humorous, it was considered that the term
Speaker 4: ranger was still capable of being discriminatory and unreasonably causing
Speaker 4: offence to particular groups. The complaint was also said to
Speaker 4: raise various concerns about the use of the term, including
Speaker 4: its reference to orangutanks.
Speaker 1: The person who was called a ranger. Was not the
Speaker 1: one that complained. It's because the mayor put this on
Speaker 1: a light outed Facebook post with a picture of this
Speaker 1: guy is made, I think, and other people complained about it.
Speaker 4: So what do you think, ma'am? Do you think that
Speaker 4: you have the right to call an employee a ranger
Speaker 4: to their face?
Speaker 1: I would never because I think you've got to listen
Speaker 1: to the people who are the thing, the rangers. You
Speaker 1: have to listen to the rang well, well, whatever happens
Speaker 1: to me, whether you say something is offensive or not,
Speaker 1: you kind of And also they're not a monolith. There's
Speaker 1: lots of people with red hair who have different views.
Speaker 1: All the people that I've spoken to speaking to think
Speaker 1: it's fine and take it as a compliment. But I
Speaker 1: think it's also how it's intended.
Speaker 4: Speaking of, we are asked a few people in our
Speaker 4: office who do have red hair. Maybe that's even offensive
Speaker 4: to spot them out and say, can you tell us
Speaker 4: what you think about this term? But we asked them
Speaker 4: if they thought little terms maybe yeah, if the term
Speaker 4: ranger is offensive, And here's what they said.
Speaker 5: Not remotely. I'm very comfortable with being a ranger. I'm
Speaker 5: very comfortable in my own skin about being a ranger.
Speaker 5: I refer to myself as a ranger. However, it depends
Speaker 5: who's saying it and in what context. So it's like
Speaker 5: I wouldn't go around the office and say hello baldy
Speaker 5: or hello big nose or whatever. So if I know
Speaker 5: someone and they refer to me as a ranger, that's
Speaker 5: absolutely fine.
Speaker 3: But it's just common sense.
Speaker 6: Well, on the one hand, I can see why, you know,
Speaker 6: these kind of negative stereotypes like gingers being quick to anger.
Speaker 6: I don't really want these dorogedy phrases flying around. But
Speaker 6: then on the other I'm not a big fan of
Speaker 6: linguistic policing in general, so this news does, of course
Speaker 6: instantly send me into a fiery rage.
Speaker 7: I don't care. I could not care less if someone
Speaker 7: called me a ranger. It depends, Like somebody could say
Speaker 7: you're a ranger, or like, oh, my friend who's a
Speaker 7: ranger with warmth, and I'd be like, that's nice. But
Speaker 7: if someone used it as like your ranger as an insult,
Speaker 7: I'd be like, get a better insult.
Speaker 8: Honestly, I don't mind. If someone wants to call me
Speaker 8: a ranger. You can call me a ranger, you know,
Speaker 8: It kind of depends on who the person is. If
Speaker 8: you're going to say it in a disrespectful way, like
Speaker 8: you know, it might not be appreciated. But also, like
Speaker 8: Tim Minchin says, like only a ginger gets to call
Speaker 8: another ginger ginger. So there's that too, Holly.
Speaker 4: Would you use the term ranger?
Speaker 2: No, I wouldn't, but I grew up in a ranger house.
Speaker 2: Ranger is an Australian thing, right, We don't use it
Speaker 2: in England. What you call red hair from England? A
Speaker 2: ginger in England? Who call him the ginger?
Speaker 4: And is it a term of endearment.
Speaker 2: So it's very similar to ranger in that it can
Speaker 2: be fine, but it can also be a little bit
Speaker 2: if people are calling you a ginger x you know.
Speaker 1: What I mean? Ah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it can be Yes.
Speaker 2: Yes, my dad had red hair, my brother had red hair.
Speaker 2: My hair used to be quite red, and my kids
Speaker 2: have red hair because there's also red hair on Brent's side.
Speaker 2: And my daughter gets called ranger as her nickname at school.
Speaker 1: Did she mind her?
Speaker 2: I don't know that she loves it, but I think
Speaker 2: she has decided to accept it as a term of endearment,
Speaker 2: which I think is often what you do, don't you
Speaker 2: when somebody starts calling you a name, and you decide
Speaker 2: how you're going to handle it. But I think that's because,
Speaker 2: as we discussed last week, she's called Matilda, and there
Speaker 2: are about ten other Matilda's in her year, so they
Speaker 2: all have a nickname, and so she is rang and Matilda.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't use it. I don't think I've ever used
Speaker 4: it to describe someone or at school. I think that
Speaker 4: it could be seen as a bit of a derogatory
Speaker 4: term to describe someone. I don't think it's on par
Speaker 4: with sort of racist or homophobic language, like obviously that's
Speaker 4: a different thing. I think it's funny that this has been.
Speaker 1: A trigger warning.
Speaker 2: In the workplace. She just can't comment on what people
Speaker 2: look like. It's taken us a long time to get
Speaker 2: me up to speed with that exactly.
Speaker 1: Nice call you, blondie, until just reach because I couldn't
Speaker 1: remember your name.
Speaker 2: Okay, I want to talk about being dumped, and not
Speaker 2: only because of Jlo, but also a little bit because
Speaker 2: of Jaelo. As we talked about on Wednesday, this has
Speaker 2: been the week that we were told officially what we
Speaker 2: all have known for some time, which is the greatest
Speaker 2: love story of our time, which was the rekindling, And
Speaker 2: of course that's a whole movie called that. But the
Speaker 2: rekindling of the love affair between Jennifer Lopez and Ben Affleck,
Speaker 2: which originally started twenty years ago, culminated in getting married
Speaker 2: again two years ago, not once, but twice, once in
Speaker 2: Las Vegas, once in Georgia. She loves love, well, so
Speaker 2: does he. I think it's fair to say. I've seen
Speaker 2: that video of him Monrea when he is courting for
Speaker 2: love from he loved sex. Yes, and they got back together,
Speaker 2: and everybody was like, this is amazing, this is brilliant,
Speaker 2: truelove's triumph, all of those things.
Speaker 1: Why did they break up whole?
Speaker 2: Well, I know why you think they broke up.
Speaker 3: I pull it.
Speaker 2: All very squarely.
Speaker 1: Changed my mind.
Speaker 2: I know Ben so well. It's definitely his fault.
Speaker 1: I actually think it is. The easy read is that
Speaker 1: she wanted to be in the spotlight. She turned their
Speaker 1: relationship into content. She loved a red carpet. But none
Speaker 1: of that's new. I actually think that maybe it was him.
Speaker 1: He's well known to have suffered from addiction issues.
Speaker 4: What makes you think, Holly, that Jlo was dumped. Well,
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: You're right.
Speaker 2: I don't actually think that she was necessarily dumped. I
Speaker 2: think she was probably like, we can't do this anymore.
Speaker 2: But Ben affleck and again, this is such speculation, but
Speaker 2: it probably pokes something in me and lots of women.
Speaker 2: I know. He strikes me as the kind of guy
Speaker 2: who he loves it and he hates it. He loves
Speaker 2: it and he hates it.
Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: He loves Jlo's jay lowness, but very often douchebag dudes.
Speaker 2: I'm just going to say it. The thing that attracts
Speaker 2: them to you is also the thing that repels them
Speaker 2: from you. And I reckon that he thought he could
Speaker 2: handle Jaelo, but he can't handle Jaylo.
Speaker 3: He's just not up to it.
Speaker 1: Her sun shines too brightly.
Speaker 3: He's not mad.
Speaker 4: I'm feeling very protective of my friend Jlo. I don't
Speaker 4: know what happened, but emotionally, I feel like I'm gravitating
Speaker 4: towards Jlo. I do, but I was apprehensive. I think
Speaker 4: that when we tell our love story, the love story
Speaker 4: of our life, to the world, the.
Speaker 1: Greatest love story never told that we've told a lot.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I think that when we make our documentary,
Speaker 4: and when we also make our film and our album
Speaker 4: all about the love story, that it's bad to tell.
Speaker 4: I think it's bad juju. There seems to be We've
Speaker 4: talked about this before, an inverse correlation between how much
Speaker 4: we declare our love from the rooftops and maybe what's
Speaker 4: going on behind the scenes. I see this all the time,
Speaker 4: and I just think we gotta be careful because once
Speaker 4: we say I've found the love of my life, look
Speaker 4: at me. I'm finally happy. My whole life has led
Speaker 4: me to this moment to ben So can you say
Speaker 4: that out loud? I just think you're tempting fate.
Speaker 2: A source told people, and we all know that the
Speaker 2: sources who speak to people are really the celebrities. She
Speaker 2: tried really hard to make things work and is heartbroken,
Speaker 2: and I believe that. I think Jalo is heartbroken. I've
Speaker 2: seen her on a yacht this summer quite a lot,
Speaker 2: this northern summer, quite a lot. She was looking great
Speaker 2: in the swimsuit, drinking champagne on a yacht, but you
Speaker 2: could see any sadness in her eyes.
Speaker 1: What's interesting about Jlo is that I mean. The divorce
Speaker 1: papers show that the separation occurred on April twenty sixth,
Speaker 1: which was four months ago. She relaunched before she filed
Speaker 1: for divorce. Because it's been very interesting the way she's
Speaker 1: handled these few months. It's been summer in America, she's
Speaker 1: gone to the Hamptons, and she's done a lot of papwalks. Now,
Speaker 1: Jlo loves a papwalk. Nothing wrong with a papwalk. Explain
Speaker 1: what a papwork is.
Speaker 2: I might take issue that she's done a lot of papworks,
Speaker 2: but a papwalk is like a deliberate showing for the
Speaker 2: paparazzi where you either pre arrange it or you go
Speaker 2: somewhere that you know they're going to be. So, you know,
Speaker 2: if you're a famous person and you choose to go
Speaker 2: to the hot spot in the Hampton's for lunch where
Speaker 2: you know the photographers are going to be, then it's
Speaker 2: a very deliberate showing. But also cameras follow Jaylo around,
Speaker 2: especially right now while everyone thinks they're breaking up, they're like,
Speaker 2: where's she wears he? Any day you open a celebrity website,
Speaker 2: it'll say she's in La He's in New York. She's
Speaker 2: in Rome, he's in Blah Like there's been a j
Speaker 2: Loo Ben watch going on now for months.
Speaker 1: That's true, but celebrities of that level like Taylor Swift,
Speaker 1: Beyonce j Loo that perhaps only photograph you when you
Speaker 1: want them to kind of you cannot away them. And
Speaker 1: I'm not again, this sounds like I'm saying it's her
Speaker 1: fault or I just think it's a really interesting strategy
Speaker 1: and a very Jalo strategy, which I'm here for. She's
Speaker 1: trying to take control of the narrative. That's why I
Speaker 1: don't think it was her choice to end. I think
Speaker 1: it was his fault. As much as breakups can be
Speaker 1: one person's fault, sometimes they are. I think he crossed
Speaker 1: a line, whether it was cheating, whether it was addiction.
Speaker 1: I feel like maybe it was actually cheating, because I
Speaker 1: think with addiction, maybe she hung in already. I mean,
Speaker 1: we're literally gossiping stuff up.
Speaker 4: You don't think though, because this is going to be
Speaker 4: the dominant narrative everyone pedals, and that we've heard from
Speaker 4: the beginning is that poor Ben doesn't like the spotlight.
Speaker 1: He is such a misogynistic narrative that I was part of,
Speaker 1: and I have regrets.
Speaker 2: I do exactly what he was getting. Yeah, he waited
Speaker 2: us seventeen years ago, and that was the narrative that
Speaker 2: he spun over why they broke.
Speaker 3: Up that time.
Speaker 4: But and this is what that narrative will say. Even
Speaker 4: Jlo was like, we're going to do it differently this time.
Speaker 4: We learned a lot of lessons. It was the media
Speaker 4: that split us. That's what they both said about last time.
Speaker 4: And then then was on a podcast recently, like in
Speaker 4: the last month six weeks where he said, you can
Speaker 4: photograph me, you can photograph j Loo, but when you
Speaker 4: photograph my kids, you're crossing the line. He basically said
Speaker 4: that that was really upsetting him at the moment. So
Speaker 4: there will be a story and what we're essentially calling
Speaker 4: Jalo in that narrative as an attention seeker except.
Speaker 1: That his kids, and you're right, that was one of
Speaker 1: the narratives, except that his kids, who were very publicly
Speaker 1: with j Loo in the Hamptons since the breakup, and
Speaker 1: they also don't need to be photographed if they don't
Speaker 1: want to. So it's been really interesting watching everybody give
Speaker 1: their message by what photos they're in, where they are,
Speaker 1: who they're with.
Speaker 2: I'm not a poor Ben guy. I think he's a
Speaker 2: very talented, very tortured, probable pain in the ass to
Speaker 2: live with, like Jennifer Garner, like there is no one
Speaker 2: more delightful on the planet.
Speaker 1: What about that quote that she gave about him? And
Speaker 1: she's been very discreet since the divorce, but she said,
Speaker 1: to paraphrase, when Ben shines his light on you, it's
Speaker 1: warm and beautiful, but it's very cold in the shade. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And also the other thing about the narrative about the
Speaker 2: fame is it suggesse he has no agency, Like we
Speaker 2: keep talking about that documentary. He was a co producer
Speaker 2: on that documentary about their relationship. He chose to be
Speaker 2: in it. He didn't have to do any of that.
Speaker 2: As if we really think he was surprised to walk
Speaker 2: into his house and see them going through his love
Speaker 2: lit like, I don't buy it. Anyway, I have.
Speaker 4: One more question to ask just on Jloh and Ben,
Speaker 4: because everything we know about relationships is through the prism
Speaker 4: of benefit. I think we can agree that's true. And
Speaker 4: the age old question is does anyone ever really change?
Speaker 4: Because that was what everyone thought, is that they were
Speaker 4: each other's the love of their life. I heard that
Speaker 4: from their own mouth. The media broke them up the
Speaker 4: first time the second time, this was meant to mean.
Speaker 4: What we all learned from that was people can change.
Speaker 4: Maybe your ex is the love of your life.
Speaker 1: I think they have amazing sex, and I think that
Speaker 1: that can pluster over a lot, and it can also
Speaker 1: make you think that you feel a way that you
Speaker 1: don't or that you can overcome things that you perhaps
Speaker 1: couldn't before. The sex can be confusing.
Speaker 2: Georgia for the sex, like I don't buy.
Speaker 1: No, but I think it makes them think and feel
Speaker 1: a whole lot of things. But then eventually you're not
Speaker 1: having sex three times a day, and you've probably had
Speaker 1: some ut eyes, and you know, you can see things
Speaker 1: more clearly.
Speaker 2: Let's get away from the UTIs and back to celebrity
Speaker 2: break up wisdom. So a little story for out louders.
Speaker 3: One of the very.
Speaker 2: Talented people who works here at Mama Mia. She's called
Speaker 2: Live James. She was a social producer and she was
Speaker 2: at the logis on Sunday night. As you may have
Speaker 2: heard me or what she's barely talked about it. I
Speaker 2: don't know if you would know, but Live James was
Speaker 2: on the Red carpet, and unfortunately for Live, something had
Speaker 2: happened to her that morning that was not what she
Speaker 2: was expecting. Here's Live telling us what happened to her
Speaker 2: the morning of the logies.
Speaker 9: Okay, so basically, I was in this situationship with a
Speaker 9: guy that I'd been seeing for a little while and
Speaker 9: it was, you know, everything was going smoothly, but then
Speaker 9: it came to this abrupt ending that was quite brutal
Speaker 9: on the morning of the logis and I still had
Speaker 9: to rock up to work, and I thought to myself,
Speaker 9: what can I ask these celebrities that can help me
Speaker 9: and other people? And I was like, I'm just gonna
Speaker 9: ask them about my heartbreak, and then the head of
Speaker 9: entertainment was like, you should just tell them the story.
Speaker 9: So I was like, okay, and then all these celebrities
Speaker 9: started looking at me really like with the saddest eyes
Speaker 9: I've ever seen, honestly, but I got some good advice
Speaker 9: and ten worth it.
Speaker 3: So liv decided to ask.
Speaker 2: Because she's a professional, I need to put on the
Speaker 2: record speaking of Ben Affleck, douchebag move to dump your
Speaker 2: girlfriend on the morning of a very big professional so true.
Speaker 4: She had the logis that night could you not wait
Speaker 4: until the next but you could have.
Speaker 2: That's a bit of a narcissistic thing to do, anyway, live.
Speaker 4: That person has been dragged by every possibly should.
Speaker 2: This poor person anyway? So liv asked the famous people
Speaker 2: their advice to get over heartbreak. I hope Jayla's listening
Speaker 2: to this. Here's some of what the famous people said.
Speaker 1: You're so much as my daughter.
Speaker 4: Sious relationship at five. Do not look at another person
Speaker 4: until you're thirty five minimum.
Speaker 2: From what you learn from it, and if you grow
Speaker 2: from it, that's awesome.
Speaker 3: Don't take your baggage.
Speaker 8: Into the next one.
Speaker 10: Does run up this guy that's just letting me up
Speaker 10: there tonight. Yeah, I'll be short term sad. And it's
Speaker 10: nice to be short term sad if it meant something
Speaker 10: to you.
Speaker 3: If you're not.
Speaker 10: Sad means the relationship meant nothing, which is actually a
Speaker 10: terrible thing.
Speaker 1: Do you know what. It always feels like shit now,
Speaker 1: but it just gets better. I've got a quote from
Speaker 1: Winston Churchill.
Speaker 4: If you ever find yourself going through hell, just keep going.
Speaker 2: Yeah, worthy of you.
Speaker 8: You do your thing, You treat yourself fine, and you
Speaker 8: get on the flow.
Speaker 10: That's something you don't want to hear time see the
Speaker 10: only thing in my experience.
Speaker 1: They're really here.
Speaker 2: So James Stewart is the last voice you heard there,
Speaker 2: who was walking in a very benefit moment. He was
Speaker 2: walking the red carpet for the first time with Aida
Speaker 2: Nicodemi on his arm. Who's in that ladder? Hiada? She
Speaker 2: was very excited to see live and they gave some
Speaker 2: good advice. What he said after that, though, was something
Speaker 2: about getting drunk, which I think is also fine. Do
Speaker 2: celebrities know a lot about break up wisdom? Were the
Speaker 2: best there? And what would yours be? Mare freedom?
Speaker 1: The advice that I gave live at the Logis where
Speaker 1: I was.
Speaker 4: Was as a famous person, as a celebrity. Some might
Speaker 4: say the.
Speaker 1: Only interview I did no one else did, and it's
Speaker 1: only because I'm live boss and ask me questions. But
Speaker 1: the advice I gave was you get a fringe.
Speaker 3: I'm glad you didn't say that.
Speaker 2: You should have done locked at a Really seriously, did
Speaker 2: you need to bring your personal life?
Speaker 1: That's like true boundaries leave boundaries. I yes, said get
Speaker 1: a fringe and get a haircut due and also buy
Speaker 1: clothes for your feelings, because I think when you look
Speaker 1: in the mirror. You want to see someone different to
Speaker 1: the person who was in that relationship and who got dumped,
Speaker 1: and I think that that is always a good thing.
Speaker 4: I need to prosecute the hair comment because I reckon
Speaker 4: if you go to the hairdresser, we don't get a
Speaker 4: fringe and you say, give me a fringe and give
Speaker 4: me a pixie cart, I think the hairdresser is legally
Speaker 4: obliged to say, have you been doump in the last
Speaker 4: twenty four to forty eight hours, and if you say yes,
Speaker 4: and they have to say.
Speaker 1: No, I think you just need to say, very good point, Jess.
Speaker 1: You need to say I need a break up, haircut
Speaker 1: and a hairdress A good hairdresser understands what that means.
Speaker 1: It understands explicitly, not give me a pixie cut or
Speaker 1: a fringe. I was joking about the fringe kind of
Speaker 1: but it means that you need to glow up.
Speaker 2: Buy some clothes for your feelings is the most mere
Speaker 2: Friedman sentence I've ever heard, and I really like it.
Speaker 1: I get that some people eat their feelings. I buy
Speaker 1: clothes for my feelings.
Speaker 3: My advice to.
Speaker 2: Live, not that she asked. I'm not famous enough but
Speaker 2: would be to wallow. My thing is like, you get
Speaker 2: a wallowing window, and I think that how long that
Speaker 2: is is dependent on how long the relationship was. So
Speaker 2: if it's a four week situationship, you get like an
Speaker 2: advent calendar sized window, like a teeny window.
Speaker 1: Like four hours, Like what do you think like a week?
Speaker 2: Maybe?
Speaker 1: Because four weeks that's twenty five percent.
Speaker 4: I disagree with you on this, continue and then I will.
Speaker 1: Like you're married for five years.
Speaker 2: When I say wallowing, I'm talking about you know, not
Speaker 2: getting out of your pajamas, maybe drinking too much, maybe
Speaker 2: ordering lots of food in eating chocolate, and crucially talking
Speaker 2: your friend's ears off. They give you this window, I
Speaker 2: think of a certain amount of time that they have
Speaker 2: to tolerate, that it's part of the contract of your relationship,
Speaker 2: and then at one point they have to cut it off.
Speaker 2: And I reckon, if you've been married for ten years,
Speaker 2: you get like a huge picture window sized space like months,
Speaker 2: possibly years really of wallowing time.
Speaker 1: It gets to a point where you're like, okay, it's
Speaker 1: time to move on.
Speaker 2: Now you have to just take that pain and shove
Speaker 2: it really really far down, really suppress it, turn it
Speaker 2: into a hard little pebble that you can say throw
Speaker 2: like a kidney.
Speaker 1: Stone that you have to we out of your WII home.
Speaker 4: Manchester.
Speaker 1: They really hurt a lot when you pass the kidneys
Speaker 1: and they're gone and you feel sober and you can
Speaker 1: keep them in a jar, maybe a roof with like
Speaker 1: experiences I lived through on the jar.
Speaker 4: Heartbreak is not like a kidney stone, not even a
Speaker 4: little bit.
Speaker 1: He wrote a whole book.
Speaker 4: I wrote, I'm the expert.
Speaker 2: You are the actually forgot that I am. But they
Speaker 2: were quite serious breaker.
Speaker 4: Well, Holly, if you'll recall, at the end of that book,
Speaker 4: I wrote about a heartbreak that I experienced and guess
Speaker 4: what it was a situation ship. It was one of
Speaker 4: the worst heartbreaks I ever had, was with someone I
Speaker 4: wasn't with for very long.
Speaker 1: Why is that? Do you think?
Speaker 4: My theory is that you only have hope, you only
Speaker 4: have how you imagined it to be, and you're at
Speaker 4: that early stage of infatuation where you've started playing out
Speaker 4: all of the amazing things that are going to happen,
Speaker 4: and then when you sit there to be like, oh,
Speaker 4: I'm now going to write the list of all the
Speaker 4: things I hate, You've got none because you never knew
Speaker 4: them well enough.
Speaker 2: You're letting go of a dream relationship rather than a
Speaker 2: relationship itself, where it's like I love Luca.
Speaker 4: If we broke up tomorrow, I could write a long
Speaker 4: list of things. Yeah, So there's more like fodder for
Speaker 4: my breakup to.
Speaker 2: So, as the person who wrote the book on heartbreak,
Speaker 2: Jesse Stevens, what's your advice for live?
Speaker 4: My advice is that you need to have some sort
Speaker 4: of ritual because my problem with heartbreak is that it
Speaker 4: is a type of grief that we don't have any
Speaker 4: ritual force. So yes, and when there's grief, in the
Speaker 4: case of a funeral, that's a very specific experience that
Speaker 4: people rally around you. You wear a specific outfit, yeah,
Speaker 4: and you go to a thief for your feelings. And
Speaker 4: I wasn't thinking of the outfit. I was more thinking
Speaker 4: of the church or the ceremony. But yeah, you also
Speaker 4: wear an outfit. But with the breakup, it's the grief
Speaker 4: compounded with the rejection. It's that they don't want you
Speaker 4: anymore and they're going to live their life over here.
Speaker 4: They just don't want you to be a part of it,
Speaker 4: which is a different type of pain. So I think
Speaker 4: you need some sort of ritual. And that's where the
Speaker 4: hair thing comes in. Right, Yes, go and get the haircut. Yes,
Speaker 4: maybe go get your clothes, write your list of everything
Speaker 4: you hate about them, right, journals, rite whatever, And so
Speaker 4: I always think, and this is I'm back to j
Speaker 4: Lo a little bit, right, because Jaylo is sitting there
Speaker 4: right now weeping. Going. Ben and I had some really
Speaker 4: good times, and.
Speaker 1: You know, I think she's angry and defiant now. Yes,
Speaker 1: I think she's past the weeping. True.
Speaker 4: Okay, two months ago she was like not a lot
Speaker 4: of weeping. Yes, Matt Garla Knight. She went home and
Speaker 4: she just went Remember our wedding in Vegas. What a
Speaker 4: lovely night. And it was because I was with Ben.
Speaker 4: And I'm not going to have those fun times anymore.
Speaker 4: Because Ben is no longer with me.
Speaker 1: My heart's broken again again.
Speaker 2: Ben actually posted social media that night he was getting
Speaker 2: changed into his tux at a toilet. He doesn't normally
Speaker 2: do that. She would have been like, he posted social
Speaker 2: media for me exactly, and look what happened.
Speaker 1: The humiliation though, there's humiliation in every breakup, really, or
Speaker 1: a sense of failure or rejection if you're the one
Speaker 1: who's been dumped Jesse, do you think that idea of
Speaker 1: writing a list is actually a good thing of all
Speaker 1: the reasons. You remember Dolly Algiston's good material about a breakup,
Speaker 1: and the ongoing thing in that book is writing a
Speaker 1: list of all all the reasons that it's good that
Speaker 1: you've been broken up with.
Speaker 4: Yes, well, and all the things that weren't right, because
Speaker 4: it's breaking up. If you really think about it, there
Speaker 4: are absolutely reasons it wasn't right. But when you look
Speaker 4: back on those positive memories, you've got to remember that
Speaker 4: you were there too, that you were part of those memories,
Speaker 4: and you're still here so you can still have fun,
Speaker 4: and whether it's with another person. Like last time Jaylo
Speaker 4: was in Paris, she had dinner under the Eiffel Tower
Speaker 4: with Ben. I don't want you to ask me how
Speaker 4: I know about, but I do, and I know that
Speaker 4: Ben cried and he was a bit he was a
Speaker 4: bit of a wet blanket on that trip. Jaylo needs
Speaker 4: to reclaim Paris. She needs to go back to Paris.
Speaker 4: She needs to have a cocktail under the Eiffel Tower
Speaker 4: with her girlfriends Jane Fonder, perhaps with Noah Trevor.
Speaker 2: With her Clever Counsel with Trevor Noah Celestial Counsel.
Speaker 4: Exactly, bring them with your friends, like Malone post Malone
Speaker 4: can come true.
Speaker 1: What do you think you two about the advice that
Speaker 1: the best way to get over someone needs to get
Speaker 1: under someone else.
Speaker 4: I don't think it's the most terrible advice in the world.
Speaker 3: Look, I mean.
Speaker 2: It's an effective strategy, but it's a risky because sometimes
Speaker 2: you just transfer to in print you in print or
Speaker 2: the other thing that happens is that next day when
Speaker 2: that person's left, you're like, oh, I'm still here in
Speaker 2: this pain and that was fun for a minute, but
Speaker 2: now yeah.
Speaker 4: So two things I reckon. You've got to be careful.
Speaker 1: It's so bad if you cry during the sex.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah. And sometimes it's really bad sex the first
Speaker 4: time you've had the sex, So you probably don't have
Speaker 4: the strength to be rejected again. That's what I found.
Speaker 4: So I would be like, I'm going on the apps.
Speaker 4: I need attention, and then the attention feels good, and
Speaker 4: then if that attention goes, you're like, oh, no, I
Speaker 4: did not sign up to be rejected again. I can't
Speaker 4: handle that. And the other thing is don't then and
Speaker 4: I've done this because I'm desperate for attention and validation
Speaker 4: because I have no self esteem left. Is I strink
Speaker 4: someone along and treat them like shit? Yeah, so, j Lo,
Speaker 4: don't go find someone who you're going to kind of
Speaker 4: project all your traumas onto. Does she need a Pete
Speaker 4: Davidson moment?
Speaker 2: I think it would be great if she had a
Speaker 2: Pete Davidson moment, because she would get.
Speaker 1: Engaged to Pete davidson'll probably marry him. She can't be stopped.
Speaker 1: She gets engaged to everybody. Remember when she was engaged
Speaker 1: to the backup dancer that was actually a backup dancer,
Speaker 1: and then she got like engaged I think, to the
Speaker 1: other backup dancer, and that was bad.
Speaker 2: She likes jewelry, she.
Speaker 4: Loves love, and there's no rule about how many times
Speaker 4: you can I can't get engaged.
Speaker 2: I Also, what I really like about Liv's story is
Speaker 2: how seriously all those celebrities took it, like Andy Lee
Speaker 2: with his thing and James Stewart about his thing about time,
Speaker 2: like they really were there for live.
Speaker 4: You know what also helps when you're in the depths
Speaker 4: of heartbreak. He's remembering that even the celebrities the glitzy,
Speaker 4: the glamorous, the rich among us get dumped, and sometimes
Speaker 4: I like to think about I'm sure Miranda Kurr's been
Speaker 4: dumped in which case happens to the most beautiful among us,
Speaker 4: and therefore we can all get over it.
Speaker 2: Out louders, have you got any excellent heartbreak advice? What
Speaker 2: actually helps you get over getting dumped? We will send
Speaker 2: all your advice to JLO, because I'm sure any minute
Speaker 2: now we're going to get an on the JLO newsletter
Speaker 2: from her and we can just send it in that reply.
Speaker 6: The hell out.
Speaker 4: It's Friday, so we want to help set up your
Speaker 4: weekend with our very best recommendations. Maya, you have a book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I started reading a book. So friend of the
Speaker 1: pot Emelia Lester, texted me a picture of a book
Speaker 1: cover and said best book cover at in ages and
Speaker 1: I just need people to tell me what to read.
Speaker 1: So I immediately downloaded it onto my Kindle and as soon
Speaker 1: as I saw the cover, I thought, I'm gonna hate this.
Speaker 1: It looks really cheesy, which is something that you two
Speaker 1: would know about, because it had a particular type of
Speaker 1: cover that felt very sort of two years ago. It
Speaker 1: had like an illustration of a girl lying on a bed,
Speaker 1: and the book was called Margo's Got Money Trouble, and
Speaker 1: it just read like a sort of a daggy rom
Speaker 1: cheesy thing that I wouldn't usually like because I'm so smart.
Speaker 1: I'm not as smart as you. You I don't read
Speaker 1: anything literally, but I also just needed something a little grittier. Anyway,
Speaker 1: it turns out it is so good and so interesting.
Speaker 1: It is about a young woman who gets pregnant unexpectedly.
Speaker 1: I think she's like eighteen or nineteen, and it happens
Speaker 1: right at the beginning, so that's not a spoiler. And
Speaker 1: her dad is a retired wrestler and her mum is
Speaker 1: a retired hoo does waitress. She's got no money, and
Speaker 1: so what she has to do is start an only
Speaker 1: fans to support herself and her baby. And it's interesting.
Speaker 1: It plays with first person, second person, third person, so
Speaker 1: it's just written in a really clever, interesting way, and
Speaker 1: it's just a good easy page turn. I'm really liking it.
Speaker 4: Sounds great, Holly, what's your recommendation?
Speaker 2: So I'm going back to back on Lee's sales recommendations.
Speaker 2: Last week I recommended her Australian story isn't it cave?
Speaker 2: So Apologies, Lee Sales, I'm sure you're listening to the show.
Speaker 2: Why am I so obsessed with you? Anyway? This show
Speaker 2: is called The Assembly and it's on ABC and it
Speaker 2: launched this week. It's on iView.
Speaker 1: Testing one, two three.
Speaker 6: For the first time in Australia, artistics students are undertaking
Speaker 6: an artism and friendly in deduction to a journalism.
Speaker 1: Of course, they will be mentored by one of Australia's
Speaker 1: best journalists. This is a chance to work with people
Speaker 1: who haven't really had a voice in media.
Speaker 3: The students will interview some of Australia's most famous people. Hello.
Speaker 1: Our rules are no subjects are out of bounds, no
Speaker 1: questions are off the table, and anything can happen.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Assembly. It's really interesting. It's like a
Speaker 2: documentary series. It's set at Macquarie UNI and it's a
Speaker 2: group of students who have autism and they are getting
Speaker 2: journalistic tutoring from the one the only Le Sales right,
Speaker 2: And every episode they interview as famous person and Lee
Speaker 2: helps them workshop their questions how they're going to ask them,
Speaker 2: and then the fame this person comes into the ABC
Speaker 2: and this group of want to be journalists interviews them, right.
Speaker 4: That's such a good idea.
Speaker 2: And the thing that's really interesting about it is is
Speaker 2: the group of students with autism are very diverse, as
Speaker 2: the spectrum would suggest, lots of different kinds of presentations,
Speaker 2: dealing with things in different ways. But one of the
Speaker 2: things that they all do have in common with these
Speaker 2: questions is that they're just asking whatever they want. So
Speaker 2: in this first one they interview Sam Neil, very famous actor.
Speaker 2: Some of them don't know who he is and they're
Speaker 2: happy to say so. But also there's a guy there
Speaker 2: who really does know who he is because of Jurassic Park,
Speaker 2: so who brings all his dinosaurs to show Sam Neil,
Speaker 2: and Sam Neil has to be like oh, and then
Speaker 2: they ask him questions. And it's just so interesting because
Speaker 2: a bit like that you can't ask that. There are
Speaker 2: some moments in it that make you really uncomfortable. And
Speaker 2: then it follows some of the they're all young adults,
Speaker 2: so they're all like sort of twenty ish. It follows
Speaker 2: some of them home and you get some backstory and
Speaker 2: all of the kind of thing. And I assume that
Speaker 2: over the series you're going to get to know more
Speaker 2: of them, and he's Lee Les in it all, and
Speaker 2: she's in the room and she's so warm and funny
Speaker 2: and smart. One of the students says to Sam Neil,
Speaker 2: you're single and we know you like Australian journalists because
Speaker 2: he'd recently dated Laura Tingle. Right, there's a single Australian
Speaker 2: journalists here today. Why don't you at least sales come together?
Speaker 3: Oh that is so good. That's so good.
Speaker 2: And then there's another journalist who asked this question that
Speaker 2: makes him cry about his parents, and he's very Sam
Speaker 2: Neil is very He's been going through cancer treatment. He's
Speaker 2: really living with quite serious cancer and he's very honest
Speaker 2: about that. That's going chemotherapy. It's so interesting and you know,
Speaker 2: just without it being like a worthy thing that you
Speaker 2: kind of get beaten over the head with, it's just
Speaker 2: so interesting and engaging to see these people who you
Speaker 2: might have preconceived ideas about how these young people with
Speaker 2: autism might act, and.
Speaker 3: It's just not like that.
Speaker 2: It's just really interesting anyway. I love it. It's called
Speaker 2: the Assembly. The guest they've got coming up Alba, the
Speaker 2: Prime Minister, it's going to do it. Adam Goodsamanda Kella
Speaker 2: Hamish Blake is next Oh So really good Feel Good TV.
Speaker 2: It's on the ABC and iView. It's called The Assembly.
Speaker 4: My recommendation, there's not a lot of fashion sash style
Speaker 4: things that I would have the guts to recommend. But
Speaker 4: if you were going to ask my recommendation about one
Speaker 4: item of clothing, what would it be?
Speaker 1: Wing die lina, work out gear?
Speaker 4: Work out gear leg.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I've got panicked live in active wear.
Speaker 4: That's my uniform, right, I have never asked you that
Speaker 4: because you have camel tie, all right, that's a personal issue.
Speaker 4: That isn't relevant.
Speaker 2: Having a vagina, that's a personal.
Speaker 10: Sorry.
Speaker 4: Anyway. I have tried every pair of leggings, the expensive ones,
Speaker 4: the cheap ones, that everything. And I recently went into Uniclo.
Speaker 4: I had someone recommend me these specific leggings and they
Speaker 4: are called Airism Ultra Stretch leggings. They're fifty bucks and
Speaker 4: I got them in lilac. They are your first mistake. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I don't know about my color.
Speaker 1: Why did you get them in la?
Speaker 4: I think they look I think they.
Speaker 3: Look would lielac.
Speaker 1: Why are you telling the first of all sweat, second
Speaker 1: of all period, third of all pelvic floor leakage. And
Speaker 1: fourth of all, can you can see more you Camelton?
Speaker 4: No, I don't have any. Actually, I bought myself some
Speaker 4: seamless underpants from Bonds, which were also good that I
Speaker 4: think are quite good for the camel ca This.
Speaker 3: Is a Camelt recommendation.
Speaker 2: Anyway, let's move past that, Lilac, go on.
Speaker 4: Yes, I was just thinking they should have like padding.
Speaker 4: You know how there's like a when you do cricket,
Speaker 4: there's like a cup box. Yeah, you should have a
Speaker 4: cup for Camelton. Anyway, let me start the thing about
Speaker 4: a good pair of tights. I want them high. I
Speaker 4: can't have them around my Hip's my widest point. That's
Speaker 4: just I'm just going to feel uncomfortable all day and
Speaker 4: I have to be super stretchy and really really soft.
Speaker 4: These You know how people say buttery soft? I never
Speaker 4: knew what that meant. These are the most comfortable time
Speaker 4: I've ever put on day out or do you ever
Speaker 4: wear tights? Right and you're walking around on you're exercising
Speaker 4: and then the bottom starts to sack. Do you know
Speaker 4: what I mean by that? Like the thing they start
Speaker 4: to make their way down, you got to pull them
Speaker 4: up oh all day, I don't have time for that,
Speaker 4: and also has two pockets. Great pocket has two pockets.
Speaker 4: It's really really good anyway, best ones I've ever had,
Speaker 4: super elastic key. They are from unicloat fifty bucks I have. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I could wear them to better. I reckon they're that comfortable.
Speaker 1: Every Tuesday and Thursday we drop new segments if Mum
Speaker 1: and Me are out Loud just for Mum and Me
Speaker 1: as subscribers, follow the link in the show notes to
Speaker 1: get your daily dose of out Loud and a big
Speaker 1: thank you to everyone who is already subscribed. It's time
Speaker 1: I have the bestst of the week where we talk
Speaker 1: about our high moments and low moments. Mine hasn't happened
Speaker 1: yet because I haven't seen Jesse in her laggings with
Speaker 1: her camel Toroe.
Speaker 4: I'll take a phight.
Speaker 1: But my other worst of the week that actually has
Speaker 1: happened is that I have had the one hundred day cold.
Speaker 1: You can hear it in my voice. I'm probably going
Speaker 1: into I don't know, it feels like day a million.
Speaker 1: The person who told me about this was Kate Langbrook,
Speaker 1: who I saw at the Logis.
Speaker 4: Where I was. Is this a real thing or is
Speaker 4: this so Kate theory?
Speaker 2: And also, you know, why have you been Is it
Speaker 2: your fault that you've been sick for so long?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know why. My immune systems
Speaker 1: just it's like I've just had one thing after another.
Speaker 1: I had got influenza A, then I got a chest infection,
Speaker 1: and then last week I had just an average sort
Speaker 1: of a cold. Because I've got asthma, it often goes
Speaker 1: to my chest. I just think I haven't had a
Speaker 1: chance to properly recover probably, and I've just kept going
Speaker 1: and kept going. And Kate said she's the same. I
Speaker 1: spoke to someone else. He said, they've got one hundred
Speaker 1: day cough. It's just I been a really rough winter
Speaker 1: for people. Lots of people that momame are away. It's
Speaker 1: not great. I mean, there's people going through much worse things,
Speaker 1: but there's no judgment around best and worst. And I've
Speaker 1: just felt like, oh, I've just felt so annoyed.
Speaker 2: All so when it goes on for a really long
Speaker 2: time something like that, like at the beginning, you're like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go to bed and have some soup and
Speaker 2: I'm going to take it.
Speaker 3: Out of work.
Speaker 2: But then you just have to, like you just have to,
Speaker 2: don't You're just walking around with it and it sucks.
Speaker 1: My best was I went to the set of Strife
Speaker 1: the second season started shooting a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 1: I haven't been to set yet because of aforementioned one
Speaker 1: hundred day cold. And one thing that you know is
Speaker 1: that you really don't want to spread Jones on set.
Speaker 1: So last year, when we had the first time all
Speaker 1: the cast got together and did their read through, I
Speaker 1: wasn't feeling very well that day, and it was the
Speaker 1: first time I met a lot of cast. I was
Speaker 1: like lots of hugs and everything. I felt increasingly bad
Speaker 1: as the read through happened and I got home, and
Speaker 1: that night I tested positive for COVID.
Speaker 4: But you were wearing a mask.
Speaker 1: I was all right wearing a mask. Yes, So I
Speaker 1: didn't give it to anyone that I know of. But
Speaker 1: back when we were shooting season one, it was still
Speaker 1: COVID protocols, so you had to test every day before
Speaker 1: you came to set. You had to wear masks unless
Speaker 1: you were a performer or unless you were eating lunch.
Speaker 1: It reminded me what a different vibe it is to
Speaker 1: not have to, and it just felt so joyous being
Speaker 1: on set. I saw all of the a lot of
Speaker 1: the cast at the logis, but it was just lovely
Speaker 1: like being on set. And again, I've got nothing to
Speaker 1: do on set as an executive producer, but we're filming
Speaker 1: the office scenes this week and there's a few new
Speaker 1: cast members. It's glorious as.
Speaker 2: Loud as I want to know if all their favorites
Speaker 2: are back.
Speaker 1: Yes, all their favorites are back, plus some extras. I
Speaker 1: met an actress who I've been a fan of for
Speaker 1: a really long time yesterday on set who I can't mention,
Speaker 1: and she was wearing this outfit in character, and I
Speaker 1: was wearing an almost identical outfit just in my regular
Speaker 1: life without realizing it.
Speaker 3: That's very me or I love it.
Speaker 4: My worst is that Lucra is away for the week.
Speaker 4: He's overseas and I am doing the solo momth thing
Speaker 4: and oh my god, she still wakes up overnight, which
Speaker 4: is fine if you're kind of handing over to each
Speaker 4: other and.
Speaker 1: You two have always tag teamed really well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so normally we tag team, but now when you've
Speaker 4: got a baby waking up overnight, and then sometimes she's
Speaker 4: up really early. You just have a bunch of I
Speaker 4: can always find that, like I can do a night
Speaker 4: or two of bad sleep. But you know when you
Speaker 4: have had a lot of nights and you can't catch up,
Speaker 4: that's when you start to feel very run down.
Speaker 1: But I've had almost eighteen months worth of nights.
Speaker 4: Yeah, look, and normally I can just I can catch
Speaker 4: up because Luca's around. But on the first night, Luca
Speaker 4: left and I just went, we're can I go to
Speaker 4: Clare's And we went to my sister's place and we
Speaker 4: had dinner and the girls had baths together and it
Speaker 4: was great. And I came home and went, Honestly, I
Speaker 4: am nailing me. I don't even need Luca, You're not.
Speaker 4: This is easy without him, Like it's just really applauding myself.
Speaker 4: And then I put her to bed and I was like, boom, bom, boom,
Speaker 4: just nailing it. And then after about an hour she
Speaker 4: started crying, which was weird, and I went upstairs and
Speaker 4: whatever I had fed her at Claire's had to all
Speaker 4: come out, and she had done the world's biggest vomit
Speaker 4: in a cot on the floor everywhere, And so then
Speaker 4: we're in the shower and then we're in the bath,
Speaker 4: washed your hair three times, still smell it, vomit, take
Speaker 4: the sheet off, the cot, throat in the hallway, all
Speaker 4: the things, and you've only got two hands. And then
Speaker 4: she's like, Mum, I'm hungry. I just vomited everything. I'm like,
Speaker 4: when am I going to get your botle anyway?
Speaker 1: And you're going to remake the bed.
Speaker 4: You got to remake the bed, put the cot down,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, mate, I'm tired. Actually anyway, I put
Speaker 4: her back down and then I go, hang on, where
Speaker 4: did the cot sheet go? Because I put it in
Speaker 4: the hallway and now it's not there. And I hear
Speaker 4: from my bedroom the dog who had stolen the cot
Speaker 4: sheet in the vomit, and I was just so disgusting,
Speaker 4: and I was like, you had to clean it up
Speaker 4: because and it was horrible.
Speaker 1: My dog's eaten worse. Yeah.
Speaker 4: My best though is that over the weekend MI children
Speaker 4: Luna did have their first sleepover, so slumber party. Claire
Speaker 4: came over. I had a few friends over that night
Speaker 4: and then Matilda was having a rough time and I went,
Speaker 4: why don't you just stay? And so we had to
Speaker 4: sleep over. The girls were in their pajamas. They stayed,
Speaker 4: which was lovely, and then we all had breakfast, so
Speaker 4: Claire slept with me, and then we've got travel coot,
Speaker 4: so Matilda was just in that and then Luna was
Speaker 4: in her bed. She didn't know Matilda was staying, so
Speaker 4: when she woke up in the morning though, I saw
Speaker 4: Claire was there, she was like, oh my god, this
Speaker 4: is great. And then the girls had breakfast together.
Speaker 1: It was just does she like Matilda anymore?
Speaker 3: She is?
Speaker 1: She growing on.
Speaker 4: Her getting there. She doesn't like actively cry now when
Speaker 4: she sees Matilda, which is good. It's like exposure therapy.
Speaker 4: But Matilda loves Luna, and Luna's just feeling like matilda
Speaker 4: steels are attention a bit. It's always fun when there's
Speaker 4: other people around, So yeah.
Speaker 1: Parenting when there's other people around the village, etc.
Speaker 4: Holly, what's your worst.
Speaker 2: I'm going to get in a lot of trouble for
Speaker 2: my worst because I'm just going to be honest about
Speaker 2: a conversation I had with some friends this week when
Speaker 2: I found out that everybody I knows on diet drugs
Speaker 2: except for me.
Speaker 1: It's like injectibles.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought the only famous people were doing that shit,
Speaker 2: and there's me being an ordinary person thinking, oh, I know,
Speaker 2: talking about weight and bodies is very fraught. We generally
Speaker 2: don't talk about it much. But I've also said a
Speaker 2: couple of times I had a fight with Jesse about
Speaker 2: this on the show. There are a lot of women
Speaker 2: out there, particularly midlife women, who are not feeling great
Speaker 2: about their bodies, who are trying to eat right, exercise hard,
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. And I'm in that phase at the
Speaker 2: moment of just being like, I'm an ordinary person who
Speaker 2: my weight goes up and down and all that, and
Speaker 2: at the moment I'm being really trying to pull back
Speaker 2: to some kind of like very healthy whatever fucking eating
Speaker 2: cottage cheese all the time?
Speaker 4: Cottage? Can I just ask about cottage cheese because you
Speaker 4: meant to feed toddlers that is that like the best
Speaker 4: version of cheese or something.
Speaker 2: It's very protein rich and low fat, right, so if
Speaker 2: you eat and again, I don't want to sound like
Speaker 2: I don't know one of those magazines from the eighth.
Speaker 4: Now I have questions about cottage.
Speaker 2: Shy protein breakfast Sarah are a good thing to so
Speaker 2: cottag cheese anyway, I'm not criticisz anywhere, I don't want
Speaker 2: to sound like one of those people, but any here,
Speaker 2: I am being one of those people. And then I
Speaker 2: talk to some of my friends and they're like, Oh,
Speaker 2: everybody's taking them. Everybody's doing that now, And it made
Speaker 2: me sad.
Speaker 1: I told you a bunch of people that we know
Speaker 1: are And the thing about menopause, though, is that your
Speaker 1: body just wants to turn into a circle. Like it's
Speaker 1: just desperate to turn into a circle. It doesn't matter
Speaker 1: what you do or what you don't do. Your body's like, nah,
Speaker 1: we're going to be a circle.
Speaker 2: And I know it doesn't matter, right, I know it doesn't,
Speaker 2: But also you're kind of when you don't feel like yourself,
Speaker 2: when you feel all those like you know, you're just
Speaker 2: trying to feel better. And then I'm like, oh, I
Speaker 2: see what everybody else is doing. Food is a big
Speaker 2: I like food a lot, right, I like healthy food.
Speaker 2: I like but rituals around food, thinking about it, cooking
Speaker 2: and eating with my family, going out for dinner, all
Speaker 2: those things are things that bring me a lot of joy.
Speaker 2: And as I understand it, a lot of those medications,
Speaker 2: like they just remove food from your world. I remember
Speaker 2: when you when you InterVideo Han Hari about it, and
Speaker 2: one of the things that really sticks in my mind,
Speaker 2: and he was talking about how he had very unhealthy
Speaker 2: relationship with food and he would, you know, eat buckets
Speaker 2: and buckets of fried chicken and things to make him
Speaker 2: feel better. And so for him it was this amazing freedom,
Speaker 2: but then it also left this gap and I think
Speaker 2: about a lot, but do I actually want to remove
Speaker 2: the joy that comes with that from my life? Like
Speaker 2: I don't think I do anyway, Sorry, everybody, how I
Speaker 2: offended with that?
Speaker 3: Worst?
Speaker 1: How'd you have offended? Anyway?
Speaker 2: Because it's very sensitive talking about bodies and diets and things.
Speaker 4: But I think it's also a thing that a lot
Speaker 4: of people are grappling with and that choice and going
Speaker 4: on it, and I know people who have gone on
Speaker 4: it and it's made them feel really sick. And yeah,
Speaker 4: I think it's something a lot of people are talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, my best is related to jess is worst,
Speaker 2: and it's that Brent's been away and.
Speaker 4: Have many children run away?
Speaker 2: Would be really upset to hear this, but hopefully no
Speaker 2: children are vomited, and my children obviously are bigger they
Speaker 2: can take care of themselves a lot more. It is
Speaker 2: still a lot more work for me when he's not around.
Speaker 2: Like there's a lot of driving people around, there's a
Speaker 2: lot of cooking, there's a lot of all that stuff.
Speaker 2: But sometimes on the weekend, I really like to just
Speaker 2: be quiet and be at home and just be pottering
Speaker 2: about and just do the things I want to do.
Speaker 2: And that's what I did this weekend. Me and Billy
Speaker 2: had a really good Mum and Billy day on Saturday
Speaker 2: where we went to eat dumplings.
Speaker 3: Which is our favorite thing.
Speaker 2: And it made him build some veggie beds with me,
Speaker 2: which he hated, but I bribed him with things for it,
Speaker 2: and I called back together time even though.
Speaker 3: He was winting all the way through it.
Speaker 2: And I built a new cage for my veggie bed
Speaker 2: that the rats keeping ready. And I was like, every
Speaker 2: time I went in the kitchen and I put something down,
Speaker 2: it was there when I went back in for it.
Speaker 3: It was great.
Speaker 4: So I was, yeah, I know what you mean.
Speaker 2: Brent came back and I was like, yeah, I love you, but.
Speaker 3: It's been nice.
Speaker 4: Oh he's Brent back already.
Speaker 2: He got back this week Wednesday.
Speaker 4: Can you send him to my house?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Actually he'd be really useful. He loves a baby. I
Speaker 2: think he would anyway, So yes, those are my best
Speaker 2: and worst.
Speaker 4: The week before we go, we had a very interesting
Speaker 4: discussion on yesterday's subscriber episode about whether it is ever
Speaker 4: appropriate to buy a sex toy for a friend as
Speaker 4: a gift and spoiler, one of us wrote this dilemma
Speaker 4: and one of us was horrified. So if you want
Speaker 4: to listen to that episode, there is a link to
Speaker 4: it in our show notes.
Speaker 2: I can't wait to hear what the outlouders think about
Speaker 2: whether or not you should do that. This is one
Speaker 2: we definitely need you all to weigh in.
Speaker 3: I'm friends.
Speaker 2: That's all we've got time for today and this week.
Speaker 2: A massive thank you to all of you out louders
Speaker 2: for listening to us. We'll be back in your ears
Speaker 2: next week. Also, it's Friday and we need to thank
Speaker 2: our amazing team, our excellent producer, Emmeline Gazillis of course,
Speaker 2: and Leah Porges for her audio production. And we'll see
Speaker 2: you all on Monday.
Speaker 1: Bye bye. Shout out to any Muma Mia subscribers listening
Speaker 1: if you love the show and want to support us
Speaker 1: as well. Subscribing to mom and Mia is the very
Speaker 1: best way to do so. There is a link in
Speaker 1: the episode description