WEBVTT - Ugh. Are You The Affirmation Friend? 0:00:10.327 --> 0:00:13.047 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:13.727 --> 0:00:16.767 Mamma mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.807 --> 0:00:23.647 that this podcast is recorded on Hello, and welcome to 0:00:23.687 --> 0:00:26.127 Mamma Mia out Loud and to our Friday show where 0:00:26.167 --> 0:00:28.367 we take a break from the news cycle and gosh, 0:00:28.407 --> 0:00:34.887 this week it's been quite the news cycle and breathe out. Hello. 0:00:35.447 --> 0:00:37.647 This is my ASMR and I'm trying to make it 0:00:37.687 --> 0:00:42.287 better but still icky. Today is Friday, the thirteenth of September, 0:00:42.327 --> 0:00:44.007 and my name is Holly Wainwright. 0:00:44.207 --> 0:00:46.767 I'm Jesse Stevens, and I'm m Vernon filling in for 0:00:46.887 --> 0:00:49.087 me today. You can normally hear me on our daily 0:00:49.207 --> 0:00:52.327 entertainment podcast, The Spill. 0:00:51.607 --> 0:00:55.807 On today's show are your female friendships being sabotaged by 0:00:55.887 --> 0:01:00.087 affirmation culture? Also make up a book and a Jesse 0:01:00.207 --> 0:01:04.287 endorsed true crime doc o. It's recommendations and our best 0:01:04.367 --> 0:01:06.807 and worst of the week include a pet death, a 0:01:06.887 --> 0:01:11.127 break in, and a dodgy passport picture. But first, Jesse Stevens. 0:01:11.527 --> 0:01:14.647 In case you missed it, Dave Grohl fifty five has 0:01:14.687 --> 0:01:18.287 fathered a child outside his twenty one year marriage, and 0:01:18.327 --> 0:01:20.127 we know this because he posted about it. 0:01:20.167 --> 0:01:24.047 On Instagram. Why did he post about it on Instagram? 0:01:24.407 --> 0:01:25.967 His wife was holding a gun to his headit. I 0:01:25.967 --> 0:01:27.647 don't have evidence of that, but that was the sense 0:01:27.687 --> 0:01:30.887 I had. The lead singer of the Foo Fighters shared 0:01:30.927 --> 0:01:33.647 a tile to his one point five million followers on 0:01:33.727 --> 0:01:36.967 Wednesday that read, I've recently become the father of a 0:01:37.007 --> 0:01:40.287 new baby daughter born outside of my marriage. I planned 0:01:40.327 --> 0:01:42.287 to be a loving and supportive parent to her. I 0:01:42.367 --> 0:01:44.567 love my wife and my children. I'm doing everything I 0:01:44.607 --> 0:01:47.647 can to regain their trust and earn their forgiveness. We're 0:01:47.727 --> 0:01:51.127 grateful for your consideration towards all the children involved as 0:01:51.167 --> 0:01:54.807 we move forward together. Grohl and his wife Jordan Bloom 0:01:55.007 --> 0:01:59.127 have three children together, the eldest of which is eighteen. Holly, 0:01:59.127 --> 0:02:00.447 are you shocked by this news? 0:02:00.887 --> 0:02:05.207 It's just embarrassing. I can't overstate how much gen X 0:02:05.287 --> 0:02:06.887 men love the Foo Fighters. 0:02:06.567 --> 0:02:09.607 Right, Oh, Foo Fighters. So I had to look him up, yeah, 0:02:09.607 --> 0:02:10.727 because I didn't know who he was. 0:02:10.847 --> 0:02:12.527 He didn't know who Dave Grohl was. 0:02:12.687 --> 0:02:15.447 He was in Nirvana with Kirk Cobbain. Oh so he's 0:02:15.567 --> 0:02:17.967 old school, Yeah yeah, old school cool. So he was 0:02:17.967 --> 0:02:20.047 in Nirvana with Kirk Cobain and then he went on 0:02:20.087 --> 0:02:23.047 to form The Food Fighters, who are an enormously successful band. Obviously, 0:02:23.087 --> 0:02:27.527 but like gen X, white dudes love the Food Fighters 0:02:27.847 --> 0:02:30.287 so much and I don't. It's like that Church. 0:02:30.407 --> 0:02:32.247 I don't know a heap about him, but my gut, 0:02:32.327 --> 0:02:33.927 you know how we have our bad men radar and 0:02:34.007 --> 0:02:35.767 like we have, you know, a gut feel. I had 0:02:35.807 --> 0:02:38.087 a relatively good feel about date he has. 0:02:38.207 --> 0:02:40.807 Well, there's a little Taylor Swift problem, but apart from that, 0:02:41.447 --> 0:02:44.887 he's generally been seen as a good dude, came through 0:02:44.927 --> 0:02:47.847 a difficult time. Blah blah blah blah blah. This is 0:02:47.927 --> 0:02:50.767 so embarrassing. What's embarrassing about this is fifty five year 0:02:50.767 --> 0:02:53.967 old men should not be posting apology declarations like this 0:02:54.087 --> 0:02:57.407 on social media. They don't understand it, they don't do 0:02:57.487 --> 0:03:01.607 it right. It's just mortifying. Keep it to yourself, Dave. 0:03:01.927 --> 0:03:05.087 What I find more embarrassing is the type of post, 0:03:05.167 --> 0:03:07.567 because it's not a note at post. It looks like 0:03:07.607 --> 0:03:08.607 he made it on candy. 0:03:08.647 --> 0:03:10.687 This is what i'mstand I was. 0:03:10.687 --> 0:03:12.727 Looking at the rest of his grid, and he liked 0:03:12.727 --> 0:03:15.127 to do a lot of personal essays. Black font a 0:03:15.167 --> 0:03:18.447 white background, so he had to fit his aesthetic. He 0:03:18.487 --> 0:03:19.927 had to be like, I'll do the post, but just 0:03:20.007 --> 0:03:22.167 let me work on the creative outlet's mortifying. 0:03:22.247 --> 0:03:24.047 The other thing that's worth noting is so he has 0:03:24.127 --> 0:03:27.447 quite a very well selling memoir called Storytellers that's like 0:03:27.487 --> 0:03:30.327 Collections of writing and whatever. It's coming out with a 0:03:30.367 --> 0:03:34.287 new edition in October. And the sound we can probably 0:03:34.287 --> 0:03:38.007 hear the publicists and the publishers scrambling to be like, 0:03:38.047 --> 0:03:41.127 how do we incorporate this horror? Some people are very 0:03:41.207 --> 0:03:43.487 upset about it, and some people say it's Swifty's revenge, 0:03:43.487 --> 0:03:45.087 because you're right, Jesse, I've always thought he was a 0:03:45.167 --> 0:03:47.207 nice guy, but that he made a dig at her 0:03:47.807 --> 0:03:48.447 about like. 0:03:48.607 --> 0:03:53.087 He said she actually had to we actually play live. Yes, yeah, 0:03:53.207 --> 0:03:53.527 that was it. 0:03:53.767 --> 0:03:55.807 That was it, Dave. 0:03:56.127 --> 0:03:58.167 Well, look, we're not here for the you know, the 0:03:58.207 --> 0:04:00.487 still a little gossip. What we do here is work 0:04:00.527 --> 0:04:01.327 cultural commentation. 0:04:01.447 --> 0:04:02.687 That is exactly what we do here. 0:04:02.967 --> 0:04:05.447 We notice an unpacked cultural trends and this reminded me 0:04:05.527 --> 0:04:07.807 of a social phenomena that I've seen reported on lately, 0:04:07.847 --> 0:04:10.207 and it's very serious and I like you both. 0:04:10.247 --> 0:04:10.607 Listener. 0:04:11.327 --> 0:04:13.927 There was an article on Mama Maya with the headline 0:04:14.127 --> 0:04:18.047 Cosey Lives means no one can afford secret second family. 0:04:20.207 --> 0:04:23.087 And when is our rule is being hit by that? 0:04:23.247 --> 0:04:26.567 Exactly? It gets all of us. When is Albo going 0:04:26.567 --> 0:04:28.687 to address that in front of parliament? Is my question. 0:04:29.247 --> 0:04:32.527 The theory originated on Twitter and TikTok, and it's based 0:04:32.647 --> 0:04:35.767 largely on vibes. They believe that there are less second 0:04:35.807 --> 0:04:38.087 families than there were in say, the eighties and nineties. 0:04:38.647 --> 0:04:43.567 Some tweets read bring back affordable second families. Most people 0:04:43.567 --> 0:04:46.527 can't even afford half a family. There are calls for 0:04:46.567 --> 0:04:50.607 an academic paper to be written on the decline privilege. 0:04:50.647 --> 0:04:52.847 Isn't it that he can afford to have this second 0:04:52.847 --> 0:04:54.047 family privilege? 0:04:54.087 --> 0:04:54.207 Oh? 0:04:54.247 --> 0:04:56.727 Yeah, generations are going to get that. 0:04:57.007 --> 0:05:00.087 Exactly right, I reckon. Maybe that's why Dave had to post, 0:05:00.087 --> 0:05:04.087 because he's probably got a CROWDFUNDI second family. How am 0:05:04.127 --> 0:05:05.207 I going to support them? 0:05:05.367 --> 0:05:07.367 I know we should not laugh because there are real 0:05:07.407 --> 0:05:13.847 people affected by this, but we think about your female friendships. 0:05:14.167 --> 0:05:16.887 If you vent in real life in your group chat 0:05:16.927 --> 0:05:20.367 about your relationship, do you expect that your good friends 0:05:20.407 --> 0:05:23.207 will say, yeah, babe, you're so right there being a 0:05:23.247 --> 0:05:27.047 total dig. Don't beat yourself up about that. If you 0:05:27.167 --> 0:05:29.167 vent in real life or in your group chat about 0:05:29.207 --> 0:05:32.287 your boss, do you expect that your female friends will say, yes, 0:05:32.367 --> 0:05:34.967 they sound like a complete idiot. They don't know how 0:05:35.047 --> 0:05:37.607 lucky they are to have you. And if you vent 0:05:37.687 --> 0:05:39.727 about your kid or your parents in real life or 0:05:39.767 --> 0:05:41.447 in your group chat, do you expect them to say, 0:05:41.807 --> 0:05:44.607 it's so hard, DHL, you're doing a great job. I 0:05:44.647 --> 0:05:46.527 think the answer to all of those things. 0:05:46.327 --> 0:05:47.447 Is yes, absolutely yes. 0:05:48.367 --> 0:05:51.407 My answer is absolutely yes, And if yours is too, 0:05:51.447 --> 0:05:55.727 then your friendships might have been infected with affirmation culture. 0:05:56.207 --> 0:05:58.927 As expressed in an article in The Cut by Catherine 0:05:59.047 --> 0:06:03.607 jesse morton affirmation culture, This idea is that the lens 0:06:03.767 --> 0:06:07.007 that we view the world through is mostly filtered by 0:06:07.087 --> 0:06:09.687 the idea that us women because it's mostly women who 0:06:09.687 --> 0:06:12.007 are part of this culture. Apparently, we have a lot 0:06:12.007 --> 0:06:16.567 to deal with in this world, and we're usually treated unfairly, 0:06:17.247 --> 0:06:20.407 and the bar is higher off et cetera, et cetera, 0:06:20.487 --> 0:06:23.687 et cetera. And so within our groups of female friendship, 0:06:24.007 --> 0:06:28.087 we need our view validated and we need support and 0:06:28.207 --> 0:06:31.967 validation and recognition. A sign of good friendship, of loyalty 0:06:32.247 --> 0:06:35.527 is being on your side no matter what we want. 0:06:35.527 --> 0:06:37.847 Our groups to hold us up, not hold us accountable 0:06:37.847 --> 0:06:40.287 for things that we, god forbid, might have fucked up 0:06:40.287 --> 0:06:45.447 for ourselves. But apparently this isn't good for us. M. 0:06:45.607 --> 0:06:48.647 Do you recognize affirmation culture in your friend group? 0:06:48.887 --> 0:06:51.487 Yes, I have a lot of affirmation friends. I am 0:06:51.487 --> 0:06:54.127 not one of them. What I'm an anti affirmationer? 0:06:55.327 --> 0:06:58.087 I thought you were very yes girl slave, etc. 0:06:58.567 --> 0:07:01.847 I yeah, yes, girls say. I am the kind of 0:07:01.887 --> 0:07:05.367 friend that wants the best for my friends, but it's 0:07:05.407 --> 0:07:07.647 not unconditional, as in, like, I want the best for 0:07:07.767 --> 0:07:10.607 my friends, but if I feel like the affirmations won't 0:07:10.647 --> 0:07:12.607 give them the best outcome they want, I will be 0:07:12.687 --> 0:07:13.447 that person. 0:07:13.207 --> 0:07:13.687 To tell you. 0:07:13.767 --> 0:07:17.887 So, Okay, we're out to dinner and I say complaints 0:07:17.887 --> 0:07:21.367 about my husband. He leaves his towel on the floor 0:07:21.767 --> 0:07:24.007 and it's wet, and then I have to pick it up. 0:07:24.567 --> 0:07:25.567 Go what do you say? 0:07:25.687 --> 0:07:27.447 I say, you need to talk to him about this. 0:07:27.607 --> 0:07:29.327 I'm not going to be that friend to be like, 0:07:29.687 --> 0:07:33.887 oh that sucks, let's go order some dessert. Oh my goodness, 0:07:34.087 --> 0:07:36.167 I need to break this because I want the best 0:07:36.167 --> 0:07:38.447 outcome for your life, because that's my job as a friend. 0:07:38.527 --> 0:07:40.847 Is I care? I care? I want you to fix this. 0:07:40.927 --> 0:07:43.567 You're breaking with social contract, I know, but I do 0:07:43.647 --> 0:07:47.207 have rules for being the anti affirmation friend. So it's 0:07:47.207 --> 0:07:49.207 always like, if you just want to vent to me, 0:07:49.407 --> 0:07:51.767 I will be that like sounding board. But if you 0:07:51.847 --> 0:07:54.367 actually want advice I ask, I'll be like, do you 0:07:54.407 --> 0:07:55.927 want to know what I really think? Or do you 0:07:55.927 --> 0:07:56.567 just want to vent to me? 0:07:56.687 --> 0:07:59.967 Oh? This is very good. She's very evolved because it's true. 0:08:00.007 --> 0:08:02.647 I do not want criticism unless I've asked for it. 0:08:02.807 --> 0:08:04.567 Yeah, and I never do it in a group chat. 0:08:05.087 --> 0:08:07.487 So my friends know because they know that I'm the 0:08:07.527 --> 0:08:09.727 anti affirmation. If they're complaining about some thing and they're 0:08:09.727 --> 0:08:12.047 wanting advice, they know I have something to say because 0:08:12.047 --> 0:08:13.567 I'll just stay silent and I'll just read all their 0:08:13.567 --> 0:08:16.327 messages and then i'll message them separately. And I don't 0:08:16.327 --> 0:08:18.367 actually message. It's always a voice note because I don't 0:08:18.407 --> 0:08:19.927 think it comes across well in message. 0:08:20.287 --> 0:08:24.327 So hold on back to role play. I'm in your 0:08:24.367 --> 0:08:27.487 group chat, and I'm going my boss is a bitch 0:08:28.127 --> 0:08:30.927 isn't here, So let's go. I'm saying my boss is 0:08:30.967 --> 0:08:32.727 a bitch, or my husband's a dick, or my kid's 0:08:32.727 --> 0:08:36.047 an asshole or whatever. All the other girls are going yeah. 0:08:35.847 --> 0:08:39.767 Slay, yeah, yes that's or just like a little thumbs, 0:08:41.607 --> 0:08:44.767 I know you're not saying anything. 0:08:44.847 --> 0:08:46.887 And then the next thing that happens is in my 0:08:47.967 --> 0:08:49.087 I get a voice note from you. 0:08:49.127 --> 0:08:50.927 I get a message first saying do you want my 0:08:50.967 --> 0:08:52.047 actual thoughts right? 0:08:52.367 --> 0:08:54.127 And then I get a voice note from you that 0:08:54.327 --> 0:08:56.927 might say, have you considered that the reason that your 0:08:56.927 --> 0:08:58.607 boss is a bitch is because you're not very good 0:08:58.607 --> 0:08:59.087 at your job? 0:08:59.167 --> 0:09:01.607 Is that what's gonna happen? I'm not mean so, but 0:09:01.687 --> 0:09:03.887 I will bring up stuff like, hey, maybe she acted 0:09:03.927 --> 0:09:06.047 this way because you did say this to her. 0:09:06.847 --> 0:09:09.847 And is that one you honestly want? So let's say 0:09:10.087 --> 0:09:11.887 you know, you've talked on the show before about dating, 0:09:11.967 --> 0:09:14.567 and you're sitting there going, oh, my goodness, he hasn't 0:09:14.607 --> 0:09:18.087 messaged me back. It's just bullshit because he really led 0:09:18.127 --> 0:09:21.047 me on with blah blah blah. What do you want 0:09:21.087 --> 0:09:22.767 from your friends? Because do you want your friends to 0:09:22.807 --> 0:09:24.447 be like, okay, sounds like a dick, You're out of 0:09:24.447 --> 0:09:26.287 his league, you're too good for him, blah blah blah, 0:09:26.287 --> 0:09:29.287 there's a script I'll read from it, y, or do 0:09:29.327 --> 0:09:32.007 you want them to be like you know actually, well, 0:09:32.007 --> 0:09:34.087 why don't you message first or do you want like 0:09:34.447 --> 0:09:35.407 active advice. 0:09:35.687 --> 0:09:38.647 That's where I struggle because all of my friends are 0:09:38.727 --> 0:09:42.247 affirmation friends, so I'm the one that isn't. So they 0:09:42.287 --> 0:09:44.327 come to me for that one thing that they need. 0:09:44.807 --> 0:09:46.727 Was I have to train one of my friends to 0:09:46.807 --> 0:09:48.447 be the anti affirmation friend for me. 0:09:48.727 --> 0:09:50.967 Do you literally do am I the asshole? Like you 0:09:51.007 --> 0:09:53.367 know what I mean? So you'll be this guy isn't 0:09:53.407 --> 0:09:56.047 calling me or whatever it is, blah blah blah, tell 0:09:56.087 --> 0:09:56.767 me what I'm doing. 0:09:57.007 --> 0:10:00.087 Yeah, and I'm the commenter. That's like the top comment way. 0:10:00.127 --> 0:10:01.927 Either tell them that the asshole or that they're not 0:10:02.327 --> 0:10:03.287 see Jesse. 0:10:03.527 --> 0:10:07.647 The thing is, I know I'm the asshole. Yes, there's 0:10:07.727 --> 0:10:09.847 no doubt. If you think I don't have the self 0:10:09.847 --> 0:10:13.887 awareness to know that I am delusional most of the time, 0:10:14.127 --> 0:10:17.447 you're very wrong. I know that I'm not being fair 0:10:17.767 --> 0:10:22.367 right now in my venting. But there is so much 0:10:22.927 --> 0:10:30.207 argument and tension and conflict in my life generally like online, 0:10:30.527 --> 0:10:32.407 you know, disagreement, all that kind of stuff that when 0:10:32.447 --> 0:10:37.567 I'm sitting with my girlfriends and I start to unleash 0:10:37.807 --> 0:10:40.727 or I start to complain or talk about some story 0:10:41.607 --> 0:10:46.327 I just want them to slay. Yes, Queen, that's all 0:10:46.367 --> 0:10:46.727 I want. 0:10:47.167 --> 0:10:49.367 So you know you're the asshole, which I think most 0:10:49.407 --> 0:10:53.247 people do, but I think that one friend quote unquote 0:10:53.247 --> 0:10:54.807 confirming it makes it real. 0:10:55.127 --> 0:10:55.327 Yeah. 0:10:55.367 --> 0:10:57.687 I don't really want that, and I want people do it. 0:10:57.727 --> 0:10:59.207 I've sat there with a group of girlfriends and I've 0:10:59.207 --> 0:11:00.927 had one friend who's kind of like, Okay, let some 0:11:00.967 --> 0:11:03.407 I'm talking about work and they'll be like, well, yeah, 0:11:03.447 --> 0:11:05.527 your boss is probably like that because let me guess 0:11:05.527 --> 0:11:07.687 you're late or something. And I'm like, I don't need 0:11:07.687 --> 0:11:11.527 this kind of Saturday night, but you actually do. 0:11:11.647 --> 0:11:14.647 You need one person to do that for you, because 0:11:14.647 --> 0:11:17.167 you need one person to have your best interest at heart. 0:11:17.167 --> 0:11:18.807 And that's all I am. I just care. 0:11:19.047 --> 0:11:21.127 I find this very tricky because Jesse, you and I 0:11:21.167 --> 0:11:23.647 are similar in this way. I'm very sensitive to criticism, 0:11:23.727 --> 0:11:26.127 and I like to tell myself that the reason I 0:11:26.207 --> 0:11:30.247 am is because my self critic is ferocious. So I'm like, 0:11:30.807 --> 0:11:32.887 there's nothing that you guys are going to tell me 0:11:33.527 --> 0:11:36.367 that I don't already know that. Like, everything I'm doing 0:11:36.447 --> 0:11:38.407 is shit, and I'm doing a terrible job of everything, 0:11:38.687 --> 0:11:40.807 and I'm an idiot and I'm a terrible parent and 0:11:40.847 --> 0:11:42.967 I'm really bad writer and dah da da dah. So like, 0:11:43.487 --> 0:11:44.927 I don't need you to tell people. 0:11:44.927 --> 0:11:46.527 What if I message both of you and I'm like, 0:11:46.567 --> 0:11:48.887 it's like two am. So you're both awake, just awake, 0:11:48.967 --> 0:11:52.327 you're not falling asleep, And I'm like, hey, guys, I'm 0:11:52.327 --> 0:11:55.127 doing something really crazy. I'm about to go over to 0:11:55.207 --> 0:11:56.007 a guy's house. 0:11:56.367 --> 0:11:57.247 Oh no, I'll say no. 0:11:57.367 --> 0:11:59.327 I think he has a girlfriend as well, but I 0:11:59.407 --> 0:12:00.727 just really really like him. 0:12:01.087 --> 0:12:02.527 Oh no, no, I'll say no about that. 0:12:02.807 --> 0:12:05.207 I agree, I would say no. We're sitting around at 0:12:05.207 --> 0:12:07.767 dinner on a Saturday night after you've done it. Yes, 0:12:07.887 --> 0:12:10.767 I am going, well, you know, but his girlfriends now, shit, 0:12:11.127 --> 0:12:12.847 that's what I'm doing because you've aready done it. 0:12:13.447 --> 0:12:19.327 That is an important distinction because if it's for advice, explicitly, 0:12:19.407 --> 0:12:22.087 should I go over to his house? I'm going to 0:12:22.127 --> 0:12:24.887 tell you the truth. Okay, No, you shouldn't, and if 0:12:24.927 --> 0:12:28.007 you do, don't fucking come winching to. 0:12:27.967 --> 0:12:28.567 Me about it. 0:12:29.487 --> 0:12:31.807 But if you've done it, I am going to make 0:12:31.807 --> 0:12:34.247 you feel better about that decision. I'm going to be like, 0:12:34.807 --> 0:12:37.647 that's okay, babe. We all do stupid things. Something like 0:12:37.767 --> 0:12:39.527 I'm definitely affirmation. 0:12:39.127 --> 0:12:41.567 And you don't think because if you say that, I'm 0:12:41.567 --> 0:12:43.247 going to be like, Okay, I've got approval. I can 0:12:43.287 --> 0:12:43.887 just do it again. 0:12:44.007 --> 0:12:46.207 But I think people do what they want. I think 0:12:46.647 --> 0:12:49.767 I think that we pretend to ask for advice because 0:12:49.927 --> 0:12:52.887 otherwise it feels like we're just monologuing, which is what 0:12:52.967 --> 0:12:53.207 we are. 0:12:53.927 --> 0:12:57.127 Sometimes I actually want advice. Sometimes I'll be like, what 0:12:57.167 --> 0:13:00.007 should I do about this? And then I'll listen to 0:13:00.047 --> 0:13:02.287 your advice and I'll probably ignore it, but I won't 0:13:02.327 --> 0:13:04.887 file it away somewhere and go, Okay, that's cool. 0:13:04.927 --> 0:13:08.007 Same. I was actually reading something this week about something 0:13:08.047 --> 0:13:11.007 called the rage friend, and it was about how it's 0:13:11.047 --> 0:13:14.767 actually psychologically quite healthy to have a rage friend. And 0:13:14.847 --> 0:13:19.007 in fact, this writer her name is Annya Meyowitz, and 0:13:19.047 --> 0:13:21.007 she talked about how not only does she have a 0:13:21.087 --> 0:13:23.727 rage friend, but she has the rage chat with that friend, 0:13:24.047 --> 0:13:26.327 so over on the right here she can be talking 0:13:26.327 --> 0:13:28.647 about their plans for the weekend and then something enrages 0:13:28.687 --> 0:13:30.887 her and that only goes in the rage chat, so 0:13:30.887 --> 0:13:34.447 there's just a steady stream of raging. I was thinking 0:13:34.487 --> 0:13:37.487 about it in that context. I think my sister's probably 0:13:37.567 --> 0:13:42.967 my rage friend. If I am raging and someone wants 0:13:42.967 --> 0:13:46.207 to not affirm that rage that I am very, very grumpy. 0:13:46.407 --> 0:13:48.407 It's like I need people in my life where I 0:13:48.407 --> 0:13:56.367 can be completely irrational, illogical, just stream of consciousness crap 0:13:56.487 --> 0:13:58.727 coming out of my mouth and they just hear me. 0:13:58.967 --> 0:14:01.007 I don't stand by anything I said. I don't even 0:14:01.007 --> 0:14:03.287 agree with what I said yesterday, but I think that 0:14:03.767 --> 0:14:07.407 there is something psychologically healthy about just having that outlet. 0:14:07.447 --> 0:14:09.167 Do you guys have a rage friend? 0:14:08.967 --> 0:14:12.327 I think affirmation friends can be rage friends, but I 0:14:12.327 --> 0:14:14.887 think if you're like me, an anti affirmation friend, you 0:14:14.927 --> 0:14:17.647 lose the right to be the rage friend. Like I 0:14:17.727 --> 0:14:20.647 noticed that my friends do stop venting to me because 0:14:20.647 --> 0:14:22.847 they know I'm just gonna come back with something to say. 0:14:22.967 --> 0:14:24.607 You can to stop them in their tracks. I think 0:14:24.607 --> 0:14:25.887 she's not gonna get all the gossip. 0:14:26.207 --> 0:14:29.767 No, you're fo but I do eventually get the gossip 0:14:29.767 --> 0:14:31.407 when it's blown out too much and they're like, am 0:14:31.487 --> 0:14:31.967 I actually? 0:14:32.327 --> 0:14:37.167 Actually, I was thinking about why we've evolved into affirmation 0:14:37.407 --> 0:14:40.087 culture friend groups because I think it's probably never been 0:14:40.127 --> 0:14:41.767 truer than it is now. And I think that you 0:14:41.887 --> 0:14:44.167 struck on something before, Jesse, when you said the world 0:14:44.287 --> 0:14:48.647 is so full of criticism and bitching. And then I 0:14:48.687 --> 0:14:51.247 also thought about it in the context of my teenage 0:14:51.327 --> 0:14:54.247 daughter who talks to me about her friendship dynamics and 0:14:54.287 --> 0:14:58.687 she's learning what female friendship groups are like, right, And 0:14:58.767 --> 0:15:01.687 sometimes she'll say to me, this person's always so mean 0:15:01.727 --> 0:15:04.607 to me and says, you know, criticizes everything about me, 0:15:04.647 --> 0:15:07.287 from my voice to the way I sat today, or 0:15:07.327 --> 0:15:10.527 my shoes or whatever. I'll say to her, you know, 0:15:10.607 --> 0:15:14.687 real friends don't do that. Am I breathing affirmation culture 0:15:14.727 --> 0:15:17.567 in her? Because I genuinely believe that real friends don't 0:15:17.567 --> 0:15:20.127 do that. Real friends might call you out on something 0:15:20.167 --> 0:15:22.207 that's bad for you, but they're not like sitting there 0:15:22.247 --> 0:15:25.607 picking your part. Well, yeah, but I think that many 0:15:25.647 --> 0:15:28.127 of us have had those experiences in our lives as 0:15:28.167 --> 0:15:32.127 we've you know, been teenagers or learned about dynamics, and 0:15:32.167 --> 0:15:35.527 so that's why I think we believe the markers of 0:15:35.527 --> 0:15:37.047 our mates is like, they'll never do. 0:15:37.087 --> 0:15:42.567 That, because there's something about affirmation culture that is socially 0:15:43.167 --> 0:15:46.127 and emotionally intelligent, right, which you're talking about too, is 0:15:46.167 --> 0:15:48.727 like you can tell when they just want you to agree, 0:15:48.767 --> 0:15:51.887 and women are very good at subtle cues. At going 0:15:52.087 --> 0:15:54.607 she just wants me not in smile and offered to 0:15:54.687 --> 0:15:56.687 buy her a drink, and then I will do that. 0:15:57.087 --> 0:16:00.687 But what women put up with a lot is blaming 0:16:00.727 --> 0:16:04.687 themselves or being blamed for situations that they find themselves in. 0:16:04.727 --> 0:16:06.167 I mean, I know, earlier in the week, on a 0:16:06.247 --> 0:16:08.647 very serious note, we talked about the French court case, 0:16:09.487 --> 0:16:12.527 and in that court case, the defense team are finding 0:16:12.567 --> 0:16:15.687 ways to blame a woman for her own assault, right, 0:16:16.127 --> 0:16:18.647 And we see that all the time. So if I 0:16:18.847 --> 0:16:22.367 bring up something that's happened in my life, I'm very 0:16:22.527 --> 0:16:24.967 primed to feel like I'm being blamed. Yes, So if 0:16:24.967 --> 0:16:27.927 someone at the table wants to go, oh, well, have 0:16:28.007 --> 0:16:30.647 you thought that's maybe your fault or whatever, It's like, 0:16:30.727 --> 0:16:33.527 oh sorry, yeah, I had absolutely thought that. But I 0:16:33.607 --> 0:16:37.887 need this safe space, this microcosm in my life of 0:16:38.207 --> 0:16:43.367 yes people that just make me feel unconditional support, because 0:16:43.367 --> 0:16:44.847 I guess I don't feel that anywhere else. 0:16:45.127 --> 0:16:48.207 But like with the person who's not the affirmation friend, 0:16:48.247 --> 0:16:51.167 I think, like you said, they will pick that up. Yeah, 0:16:51.207 --> 0:16:53.887 and because they literally the only reason they're the anti 0:16:54.007 --> 0:16:57.407 affirmation friend is that because they just want the best 0:16:57.447 --> 0:16:59.647 possible outcome for you and if they know that you 0:16:59.767 --> 0:17:02.327 just need to be listened to, they will be that person. 0:17:02.687 --> 0:17:04.847 And you know what it is, it's coming from good faith. 0:17:05.047 --> 0:17:05.527 Yeah. 0:17:05.567 --> 0:17:08.327 So it's like there's a lot of bad faith criticism 0:17:08.327 --> 0:17:10.927 and blame and everything going around, especially when it's a 0:17:10.967 --> 0:17:13.767 few you know, steps removed, like on the internet. But 0:17:13.887 --> 0:17:17.207 when you're coming from a good place, people can generally 0:17:17.767 --> 0:17:18.167 read that. 0:17:18.367 --> 0:17:20.407 I think one of my guy friends showed me a 0:17:20.447 --> 0:17:22.567 group chat that him with other guys, like I think 0:17:22.607 --> 0:17:25.247 there was about five guys, and he showed me a 0:17:25.327 --> 0:17:27.607 screenshot of this message he sent the group chat when 0:17:27.607 --> 0:17:29.887 he broke up with his girlfriend, and he was like, hey, boys, 0:17:29.927 --> 0:17:32.047 just letting you guys know that me and blah blah 0:17:32.047 --> 0:17:35.727 have broken up just a bit down lately. Three hours later, 0:17:35.887 --> 0:17:38.567 one of the guys replied saying that sucks broke, and 0:17:38.687 --> 0:17:40.567 all the other guys just like that message. 0:17:41.087 --> 0:17:42.127 That's like that. 0:17:42.287 --> 0:17:45.047 I would be that that's like a. 0:17:45.007 --> 0:17:48.247 Good material like Dolly Alderton book, where they're basically like 0:17:48.287 --> 0:17:50.767 there's a script that men follow too. In this way, 0:17:50.847 --> 0:17:54.047 if we're being stereotypical, which is like, oh, that sucks, 0:17:54.087 --> 0:17:56.887 bro we should go to the pub on blah and 0:17:56.927 --> 0:17:59.007 you know that and then we're not expecting to never 0:17:59.047 --> 0:18:01.607 hear about that again. But then I also think we've 0:18:01.607 --> 0:18:05.847 talked about this before. Often male friendship intimacy is characterized 0:18:05.847 --> 0:18:09.007 by constant sledging. Right, We're all good at that too 0:18:09.047 --> 0:18:11.647 with people that we trust and comfortable with. But in general, 0:18:11.687 --> 0:18:13.927 women don't sledge in the same way. It's not like 0:18:13.927 --> 0:18:15.847 I look at you in your stupid dress and you 0:18:16.007 --> 0:18:20.727 I hear I wouldn't cry exactly where very much like that, 0:18:20.767 --> 0:18:22.687 Like what is in that haircut is? Buddy? You know 0:18:22.687 --> 0:18:26.087 what I mean? We don't. We're just women don't generally 0:18:26.327 --> 0:18:29.047 do that. It's not the way we bond. We bond differently. 0:18:32.167 --> 0:18:34.647 It is Friday, so we want to help set up 0:18:34.647 --> 0:18:37.687 your weekend with our best recommendations whole. 0:18:38.727 --> 0:18:42.007 I'm going to recommend two makeup products today, and Jesse 0:18:42.127 --> 0:18:44.247 needs this recommendation as she's going to tell you about 0:18:44.287 --> 0:18:48.127 later in our Best and Worst session. I've spoken before 0:18:48.167 --> 0:18:49.807 on the show al though not phrages, about how my 0:18:49.887 --> 0:18:54.687