WEBVTT - "A Comedian Hurt My Feelings"

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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<v Speaker 2>that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to

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<v Speaker 2>Mamma Mia out loud. It's what women are actually talking

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<v Speaker 2>about on Wednesday, the fifteenth of October. My name is

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<v Speaker 2>Hollywayne Wright, my name is Amelia Luster.

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<v Speaker 3>And I am Jesse Stevens.

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<v Speaker 2>And here's what's made our agenda for today. I have

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<v Speaker 2>a very basic question for non basic foreign policy expert Amelia.

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<v Speaker 2>Did Donald Trump just do something that only he could?

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<v Speaker 4>And a comedian hurt my feelings recently and that got

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<v Speaker 4>me thinking about what is okay and not okay to

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<v Speaker 4>make fun of.

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<v Speaker 3>Plus, Selena Gomez posted a behind the scenes video from

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<v Speaker 3>her wedding was actually filmed by Taylor Swift, and Taylor

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<v Speaker 3>Swift accidentally revealed something but Selena didn't want us to say.

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<v Speaker 2>She wouldn't be happy.

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<v Speaker 3>The Internet is not happy with what they saw.

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<v Speaker 2>But first, we can't go on without discussing a little

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<v Speaker 2>thing that broke the internet briefly overnight. Our friend Kim Kardashian,

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<v Speaker 2>she's not your friend, she's my friend. I'm claiming her.

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<v Speaker 2>The woman who really knows how to make money. Her brand,

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<v Speaker 2>Skims launched something called the Ultimate Bush Song. And if

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<v Speaker 2>you're like, what do those words mean? I think if

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<v Speaker 2>you think about it for another second, you've probably got

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<v Speaker 2>it in your head.

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<v Speaker 4>Is it a Steve Erwin inspired flip flop?

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<v Speaker 2>Really thick like spider proof, soul repellent in it and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not that it's not the Ultimate bush Song in

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<v Speaker 2>an Australian sense, although that's genius. It is a teeny

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<v Speaker 2>tiny mesh g string that comes in seven different shades

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<v Speaker 2>and textures that basically is a murkin. So the front part,

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<v Speaker 2>the little triangle part has fake pubic hair on it

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<v Speaker 2>to put no final hand washed only, and it comes

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<v Speaker 2>in all kinds of different shades. You can have straight,

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<v Speaker 2>you can have curly, you can have full, you can

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<v Speaker 2>have meat. It's absolutely nuts and although as one common

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<v Speaker 2>to pointed out, I could grow one of these myself.

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<v Speaker 2>In forty eight hours, they have sold out at seventy

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<v Speaker 2>bucks a pop, proving once again that Kim and her

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<v Speaker 2>mates Emma Green and Co. Are marketing geniuses, but also

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<v Speaker 2>maybe that the bushes back. I don't know. Jesse wants

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<v Speaker 2>your take on why we all went crazy for the

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<v Speaker 2>Well we didn't. I don't know when did you buy one?

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<v Speaker 3>I tried, but it was all sold out and I

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<v Speaker 3>couldn't decide between the red curly and the red straight.

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<v Speaker 3>And I was kind of glad that it all sold

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<v Speaker 3>out because I didn't like the image of a white

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<v Speaker 3>head g string just hanging in a warehouse, just not knowing,

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<v Speaker 3>going into landfill.

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<v Speaker 2>Like I like, nobody would have bought the white one.

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<v Speaker 3>There was a white straight one. That made me a

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<v Speaker 3>bit sad.

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<v Speaker 4>To be completely honest, Sorry, when we keep talking about

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<v Speaker 4>them being sold out, do we think that there were

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<v Speaker 4>any or have they just declared this is like Meghan's jams,

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<v Speaker 4>like where they're ten.

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<v Speaker 3>I think there might have been ten. I don't think

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<v Speaker 3>that they had an abundance of stock.

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<v Speaker 2>Well who knows, right, because the thing that we do

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<v Speaker 2>know about Skims because Emma Greed, who is you know,

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<v Speaker 2>one of the geniuses behind the brand. She has talked

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<v Speaker 2>about this openly. She said they do something called stunt releasing,

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<v Speaker 2>and they did it with the nipple bra, where they

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<v Speaker 2>basically will release a product that will get everybody talking

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<v Speaker 2>for a hot minute, like we're doing now and the

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<v Speaker 2>internet is doing right now, and really it just drives

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<v Speaker 2>people to the website to buy other stuff. What is

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<v Speaker 2>particularly interesting though about the Bush song is when she

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<v Speaker 2>was talking about the nipple bra, she said, the nipple

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<v Speaker 2>bra was designed to sell look at me holding, well,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm doing this is not appropriate. The nipple bra was

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<v Speaker 2>kind of to get you to buy a T shirt,

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<v Speaker 2>to get you to buy a baby tea, because the

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<v Speaker 2>idea of those baby teas in Kardashian kind of style

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<v Speaker 2>is it would look cute if your nipples were showing

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<v Speaker 2>through and whatever.

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<v Speaker 3>I have seen more nipples since that nipple braw came out.

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<v Speaker 2>I have, So it was a leader. It was a

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<v Speaker 2>leader to get So what is the bushy thong trying

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<v Speaker 2>to get us to buy?

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<v Speaker 3>Let's not forget that twenty twenty five declared by Vogue

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<v Speaker 3>as the year of the Bush.

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<v Speaker 1>It was.

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<v Speaker 3>There's been Runway You've forgotten, which is really are about today?

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<v Speaker 3>Full Bush in a bikini training on TikTok has been

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<v Speaker 3>for the US summer YEP. And then there was Runway

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<v Speaker 3>Shows twenty four to twenty five that season where the

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<v Speaker 3>Runway models I think they were mercans, but you could

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<v Speaker 3>see kind of the outline of pubic hair. And what's

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<v Speaker 3>really in at the moment is that naked dress where

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<v Speaker 3>you can see just the underwear underneath. I can see

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<v Speaker 3>a world in which you wear an American underneath.

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<v Speaker 1>I can.

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<v Speaker 2>And also I was thinking about, like, you know those

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<v Speaker 2>satin bias cut skirts that everybody's wearing. Yes, the moment, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>is that if you were wearing one of these underneath it,

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<v Speaker 2>they'd just be like a rippling suggestion of your pubic

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<v Speaker 2>hare go texture suggestion might be.

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<v Speaker 1>Hot for some people.

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<v Speaker 3>I can see, I can see me are doing it

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<v Speaker 3>in five Oh my godness, she like you wonder why

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<v Speaker 3>it's sold out? You know who bought it in every

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<v Speaker 3>color because she doesn't know if she feels like curly Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>They want you to buy lots of them, even if

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<v Speaker 2>they've only got ten. This say, match, don't match. Switch

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<v Speaker 2>it up at midday so you can change the color

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<v Speaker 2>of your bush throughout the day. Very helpful.

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<v Speaker 3>Obviously you might want to curl for the evening. We

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<v Speaker 3>recorded a subscriber episode yesterday about wedding etiquette, Oh, which

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<v Speaker 3>was very very juicy. But I kind of wish that

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<v Speaker 3>before we recorded that, we knew more about Selena Gomez's

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<v Speaker 3>wedding because we've been a little bit late to this story,

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<v Speaker 3>but I've only just got across it this morning, and

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<v Speaker 3>I feel as though it raises some thorny ethical questions

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<v Speaker 3>which we like to explore on this show.

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<v Speaker 2>Can I ask you something? Yes, So Selena Gomez. Obviously

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<v Speaker 2>I know all about who Selena Gomez is kinder as in,

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<v Speaker 2>she's the most followed woman on Instagram, correct, which I

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<v Speaker 2>don't really understand why that is. But she is a big, big,

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<v Speaker 2>big big deal music acting being Taylor swisths best.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and it's the evolution, right, She was a Disney star,

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<v Speaker 3>like and that's where she got really famous. That's why

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<v Speaker 3>she's got the young people following, and then she went

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<v Speaker 3>into only medicin building and then that's where she is now.

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<v Speaker 3>And she's had this incredible singing career, best mates.

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<v Speaker 1>With Taylor red Beauty, which is made Oh yes, yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>So these are some of the questions that her wedding raises.

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<v Speaker 3>Should you vape at your wedding? Should you vape at

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<v Speaker 3>your wedding if your friend literally donated one of her

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<v Speaker 3>kidneys to you, and should you have invited that friend

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<v Speaker 3>who gave you a significant organ.

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<v Speaker 1>To your wedding.

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<v Speaker 2>Should she have come right?

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<v Speaker 3>These I know they're really hard and Selena needs some help.

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<v Speaker 3>So today Selena is probably texting her friend Taylor Swift,

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<v Speaker 3>being like, was I in the wrong? Like they're definitely

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<v Speaker 3>going back and forth, and they're texting about a woman's

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<v Speaker 3>right to vape. But we're going to go back to

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<v Speaker 3>the beginning. So we've established to Selena Gomez is and

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<v Speaker 3>then a few weeks ago she gets married. She's been

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<v Speaker 3>drip feeding us content as every good bride does. And

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<v Speaker 3>then I think that she was trying to do a

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<v Speaker 3>bit of a shout out to Taylor Swift, which now

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<v Speaker 3>means I have more wedding content to drop.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, because for the first week there was no Taylor

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<v Speaker 2>any of the pictures. It's quite a good strategy. She

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<v Speaker 2>was like, my best friend isn't gonna, you know, completely

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<v Speaker 2>take over my day. But she was definitely there, everybody,

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<v Speaker 2>you just haven't seen me yet. And then to coincide

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<v Speaker 2>with the album launch.

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<v Speaker 3>She shared a video that Taylor Swift herself had taken,

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<v Speaker 3>and you can see that the moment the camera pans

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<v Speaker 3>to Selena, she tries to hide something in her hand,

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<v Speaker 3>which is very clearly a vape.

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<v Speaker 1>Now I have something to interrupt with.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, an important piece of advice if you're getting married,

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<v Speaker 4>or if you're planning on getting married sometime in the

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<v Speaker 4>near future. Taylor Swift as videographer at your wedding is

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<v Speaker 4>a really smart choice. And I'll tell you why. The

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<v Speaker 4>person who is documenting your wedding, either through photos or

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<v Speaker 4>through video, must be tall.

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<v Speaker 3>Think about it, and taller than you.

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<v Speaker 1>Taller than you, which is not hard.

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<v Speaker 4>Selena's not particularly tall, and Nora is her husband Benny,

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<v Speaker 4>but Taylor is a tall woman and therefore will take

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<v Speaker 4>the most flattering video and photos of you at your wedding.

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<v Speaker 3>That's why take them.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's not kind to my friends. Now fans are

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<v Speaker 3>pissed because vaping is not good for your kidneys. And

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<v Speaker 3>technically her one kidney belongs to a woman named Francia

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<v Speaker 3>what who donated it to her in twenty seventeen.

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<v Speaker 2>Twenty seventeen, how old Selena Gomez ish?

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<v Speaker 3>Thirty three? So she was that was eight years ago,

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<v Speaker 3>let's go, she was like twenty five ish.

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<v Speaker 4>Wow?

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<v Speaker 2>And why did she need a kidney transplant? Or is

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<v Speaker 2>that none of my business. I suspect it's none of

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<v Speaker 2>my business, but I still need to know.

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<v Speaker 3>Of course, she's told you she had a loopus Fler,

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<v Speaker 3>Her and Francier were good mates. And then what happened

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<v Speaker 3>was she needed this kidney, Francier donated the kidney. Then

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<v Speaker 3>in the aftermath things got a bit weird. There was unfollowing,

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<v Speaker 3>there was tension. There was a weird TikTok video where

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<v Speaker 3>Selena Gomez made a joke about how much alcohol she

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<v Speaker 3>drinks and everyone was like, not good for you. One

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<v Speaker 3>kidney and that's Franciers kidney.

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<v Speaker 2>So basically, by telling everyone she'd had a kidney transplant,

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<v Speaker 2>she made her health everybody else's business, and now everybody

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<v Speaker 2>has a lot of opinions about what she should shouldn't

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<v Speaker 2>be doing with what's her name is kidney.

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<v Speaker 3>Because remember she had that documentary years ago, didn't even

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<v Speaker 3>mention Francier who gave her her kidney. And then in

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<v Speaker 3>it as well, she had a line where she said,

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<v Speaker 3>I've only got one friend in the industry, and it's

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<v Speaker 3>Taylor Swift. Francier commented on that and was like interesting,

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<v Speaker 3>dot dot dot, and then deleted.

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<v Speaker 2>It is Francier as big as Taylor Swift.

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<v Speaker 3>No, but she is in the industry right. Actually, I

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<v Speaker 3>need to get this on the record too. Francier, giver

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<v Speaker 3>of the kidney, reportedly not invited. What does it take

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<v Speaker 3>to get a wedding invite? Polly? Do we have to

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<v Speaker 3>be more secretive about our bad habits when we're vaping

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<v Speaker 3>into someone else's kidney.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not very good at biology.

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<v Speaker 3>I googled it.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm vaping into a kidney.

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<v Speaker 3>You're vaping kidney something something not good for the kidney.

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<v Speaker 3>Alcohol probably worse. But she's only got one now, and

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<v Speaker 3>so does Francis.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a cautionary tale about sharing too much, you

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<v Speaker 2>know how, in a different parallel universe, every contestant on

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<v Speaker 2>the voice, every person, no master chef, they have to

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<v Speaker 2>have the story right. And when you're earlier in your career,

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<v Speaker 2>and when, certainly when you're Selena Gomez and you're like

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<v Speaker 2>transitioning from Disney Star into lots of other things and

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<v Speaker 2>you're going through something really serious like needing a kidney transplant,

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<v Speaker 2>might seem like going public with it is a good idea.

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<v Speaker 3>And she had to postpone work things. She disappeared from

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<v Speaker 3>Instagram for a while, so she sort of did owe

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<v Speaker 3>her fans.

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<v Speaker 2>Otherwise the rumors would have been we know exactly what

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<v Speaker 2>they would have been, drug abusere no eating disorders, all

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<v Speaker 2>those things that we definitely think that young stars are

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<v Speaker 2>getting up to. But the problem is is that, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>now she has just ignited the whole Internet, and we

0:10:47.302 --> 0:10:50.422
<v Speaker 2>know that there is nothing that social media likes more

0:10:50.462 --> 0:10:53.182
<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty five than a sleuth. Because I've watched

0:10:53.222 --> 0:10:55.342
<v Speaker 2>this video several times and you have to look very

0:10:55.382 --> 0:10:58.542
<v Speaker 2>closely to see the vape like that's a very because

0:10:58.662 --> 0:11:00.742
<v Speaker 2>very soon she realizes and she just turns her hand

0:11:00.822 --> 0:11:01.782
<v Speaker 2>to cover it in her hand.

0:11:02.062 --> 0:11:02.902
<v Speaker 3>You spotted it, they did.

0:11:03.302 --> 0:11:05.542
<v Speaker 2>Well, I didn't until they pointed it out. But everybody

0:11:05.582 --> 0:11:07.942
<v Speaker 2>loves to sleuth, and then everybody loves to judge, and

0:11:07.982 --> 0:11:10.381
<v Speaker 2>then here we are. That's something I think she should do.

0:11:10.422 --> 0:11:13.262
<v Speaker 2>What she wants her kidney now, it's like you gave

0:11:13.302 --> 0:11:14.582
<v Speaker 2>it to me, Now it's mine.

0:11:14.742 --> 0:11:16.702
<v Speaker 3>The story we really want to tell is about the

0:11:16.822 --> 0:11:20.222
<v Speaker 3>entitlement of celebrities, and people quite love the idea that

0:11:20.222 --> 0:11:22.342
<v Speaker 3>Selena Goman is one of the most famous women in

0:11:22.382 --> 0:11:26.782
<v Speaker 3>the world. Somehow hoodwinked another woman into giving her a

0:11:26.862 --> 0:11:28.662
<v Speaker 3>kidney and then dropped her the second she got it

0:11:28.742 --> 0:11:32.182
<v Speaker 3>like it is the most ridiculous story that kind of

0:11:32.622 --> 0:11:35.822
<v Speaker 3>does make you laugh because it brings up questions of

0:11:36.182 --> 0:11:38.462
<v Speaker 3>what you owe someone and the idea that you are

0:11:38.542 --> 0:11:42.462
<v Speaker 3>so entitled that you would take someone's organ and then

0:11:42.582 --> 0:11:47.022
<v Speaker 3>like pillage. It is kind of ridiculous, Amelia, what do

0:11:47.062 --> 0:11:47.702
<v Speaker 3>you make of it?

0:11:47.902 --> 0:11:50.662
<v Speaker 1>Do you remember bad art friend?

0:11:50.982 --> 0:11:51.142
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:11:51.222 --> 0:11:52.942
<v Speaker 1>Yes, This was an.

0:11:52.782 --> 0:11:55.782
<v Speaker 4>Internet phenomenon back in twenty twenty one which gets at

0:11:55.822 --> 0:11:59.182
<v Speaker 4>the fact that we are all really weird about kidney donations.

0:11:59.782 --> 0:12:02.382
<v Speaker 4>So what happened in this story? There were two people

0:12:02.502 --> 0:12:05.462
<v Speaker 4>who were friends on Facebook but probably not really friends

0:12:05.462 --> 0:12:09.462
<v Speaker 4>in real life, both women, both writers. One of them

0:12:09.742 --> 0:12:13.342
<v Speaker 4>donated a kidney to a stranger and started posting a

0:12:13.462 --> 0:12:16.542
<v Speaker 4>lot on Facebook about what a wonderful person she was

0:12:16.542 --> 0:12:19.822
<v Speaker 4>for giving this kidney to a stranger. The other person,

0:12:19.902 --> 0:12:22.862
<v Speaker 4>the other woman, would never like the posts. She never

0:12:22.902 --> 0:12:25.582
<v Speaker 4>commented on the post, she never said you're a wonderful person,

0:12:25.662 --> 0:12:28.142
<v Speaker 4>Well done you, And in the end this led to

0:12:28.142 --> 0:12:32.102
<v Speaker 4>a confrontation between the two women where the kidney donors said,

0:12:32.142 --> 0:12:34.782
<v Speaker 4>why did you never acknowledge that they did this amazing thing?

0:12:35.382 --> 0:12:37.062
<v Speaker 4>And then the other woman thought that was kind of

0:12:37.102 --> 0:12:39.742
<v Speaker 4>ridiculous and went on to write a very dawning story

0:12:39.942 --> 0:12:42.262
<v Speaker 4>about someone who donates a kidney and then goes around

0:12:42.342 --> 0:12:44.662
<v Speaker 4>asking everyone to congratulate her for doing it.

0:12:45.062 --> 0:12:46.302
<v Speaker 2>Forgot about that glorious.

0:12:47.222 --> 0:12:50.942
<v Speaker 4>There's a name for these people who do these extremely

0:12:51.222 --> 0:12:55.022
<v Speaker 4>generous things, and that name is an extreme altruist, and

0:12:55.382 --> 0:12:59.742
<v Speaker 4>people have identified that we all feel weird about extreme altruists.

0:12:59.782 --> 0:13:02.262
<v Speaker 4>We should feel great about them because they're doing great

0:13:02.262 --> 0:13:06.622
<v Speaker 4>things for other people, but they really make us feel bad.

0:13:06.822 --> 0:13:09.782
<v Speaker 4>So people who donate kidneys and do amazing things other

0:13:09.822 --> 0:13:15.062
<v Speaker 4>people often receive hostility and suspicion from people, and that's

0:13:15.142 --> 0:13:18.702
<v Speaker 4>because they're making us feel bad about us about the

0:13:18.742 --> 0:13:21.342
<v Speaker 4>fact that we wouldn't give our kidney unless we were

0:13:21.382 --> 0:13:25.822
<v Speaker 4>going to get absolute, concrete proof that that kidney was

0:13:25.862 --> 0:13:28.022
<v Speaker 4>going to a lived the rest of its life in

0:13:28.062 --> 0:13:29.262
<v Speaker 4>a beautiful, fancy.

0:13:28.942 --> 0:13:33.342
<v Speaker 2>Mansion and b be extremely well treated at all times

0:13:33.462 --> 0:13:34.542
<v Speaker 2>green juice only.

0:13:34.622 --> 0:13:37.342
<v Speaker 4>But that is not to say that those people are

0:13:37.782 --> 0:13:41.462
<v Speaker 4>always above board in how they talk about what they've done.

0:13:41.622 --> 0:13:43.622
<v Speaker 4>And we don't know what went on behind the scenes

0:13:43.622 --> 0:13:47.742
<v Speaker 4>here between Selena and her friend who donated the kidney

0:13:48.542 --> 0:13:50.702
<v Speaker 4>a lot of the times, like for instance, with that

0:13:50.862 --> 0:13:53.182
<v Speaker 4>out friend. What happened was this woman who donated her

0:13:53.222 --> 0:13:55.582
<v Speaker 4>kidney became objectively insufferable.

0:13:55.742 --> 0:13:57.262
<v Speaker 1>She never stopped talking about it.

0:13:57.742 --> 0:13:59.662
<v Speaker 4>She then told The New York Times that the reason

0:13:59.662 --> 0:14:01.422
<v Speaker 4>why she gave a kidney to a stranger is because

0:14:01.422 --> 0:14:04.542
<v Speaker 4>she had a very isolated childhood and she wanted to

0:14:04.542 --> 0:14:07.262
<v Speaker 4>build bridges and make connections in her life, and that's

0:14:07.302 --> 0:14:11.262
<v Speaker 4>why she did this extraordinary thing. But the story picked

0:14:11.342 --> 0:14:14.502
<v Speaker 4>up traction because there was something really needy about her,

0:14:14.942 --> 0:14:17.742
<v Speaker 4>and she kept wanting approval from people for this act.

0:14:17.862 --> 0:14:20.742
<v Speaker 4>And this is speculation, but I wonder if between Selena

0:14:20.782 --> 0:14:24.582
<v Speaker 4>and her friend that dynamic became unsustainable. The friend was like,

0:14:24.782 --> 0:14:29.702
<v Speaker 4>you shouldn't be eating that mayonnaise covered, so you shouldn't

0:14:29.742 --> 0:14:33.182
<v Speaker 4>be eating fast food. You shouldn't be drinking champagne, which

0:14:33.222 --> 0:14:35.502
<v Speaker 4>there were also photos of Selena drinking champagne at her

0:14:35.502 --> 0:14:38.502
<v Speaker 4>wedding too, in a coop. So maybe she just couldn't

0:14:38.502 --> 0:14:41.062
<v Speaker 4>deal with this friend judging her every move.

0:14:41.342 --> 0:14:44.342
<v Speaker 2>Jesse, you know more about this story maybe than anyone.

0:14:45.462 --> 0:14:48.142
<v Speaker 2>There's that track in the TikTok of this. Has the

0:14:48.222 --> 0:14:50.902
<v Speaker 2>kidney donating friend been talking heaps about it.

0:14:51.062 --> 0:14:55.022
<v Speaker 3>No, she's kind of retreated a little bit, although.

0:14:54.702 --> 0:14:56.942
<v Speaker 1>But she did write interesting on that Posty.

0:14:56.662 --> 0:15:00.622
<v Speaker 3>She write interesting on that post. She unfollowed Selena Gomez

0:15:00.782 --> 0:15:04.062
<v Speaker 3>and then again she said from the beginning that the

0:15:04.102 --> 0:15:06.622
<v Speaker 3>doctor told her it was a donation, and when you

0:15:06.702 --> 0:15:10.062
<v Speaker 3>donate a dollar, you don't walk around asking person who

0:15:10.062 --> 0:15:12.102
<v Speaker 3>you gave the dollar, two for the dollar back, like

0:15:12.142 --> 0:15:15.902
<v Speaker 3>she kind of understands that. But there is some interesting

0:15:15.942 --> 0:15:19.582
<v Speaker 3>tidbits that she didn't interview afterwards, where she said that

0:15:20.022 --> 0:15:22.022
<v Speaker 3>she had to write a will before she did it,

0:15:22.302 --> 0:15:25.462
<v Speaker 3>and a social worker said, this is really emotionally difficult

0:15:25.462 --> 0:15:27.822
<v Speaker 3>because when you give someone your kidney, you watch them

0:15:28.622 --> 0:15:33.062
<v Speaker 3>almost get better while your body suffers because you are

0:15:33.462 --> 0:15:38.182
<v Speaker 3>really ill. Yeah, she had post surgery depression. She had

0:15:38.262 --> 0:15:40.582
<v Speaker 3>to adjust to all of that. She was only in

0:15:40.582 --> 0:15:41.622
<v Speaker 3>her mid twenties herself.

0:15:41.902 --> 0:15:46.062
<v Speaker 2>To Amelia's point about why, and obviously this is prejorative language,

0:15:46.062 --> 0:15:48.542
<v Speaker 2>but why a Dona may become insufferable, one of those

0:15:48.582 --> 0:15:52.702
<v Speaker 2>good reasons might be because no one seems to understand

0:15:52.782 --> 0:15:55.182
<v Speaker 2>what you're going through. They just think, oh, that was

0:15:55.222 --> 0:15:56.582
<v Speaker 2>a nice thing to do, Shut up about it.

0:15:56.622 --> 0:15:59.502
<v Speaker 4>I wonder if she just ultimately felt like she wasn't

0:15:59.862 --> 0:16:02.822
<v Speaker 4>properly compensated for it. By that, I don't mean financial compensation.

0:16:02.902 --> 0:16:06.382
<v Speaker 4>It is illegal to purchase organs from people, but I

0:16:06.422 --> 0:16:10.142
<v Speaker 4>mean that she feels that Selena wasn't sufficiently great full true.

0:16:10.822 --> 0:16:13.142
<v Speaker 3>I think it gives way to all of these complex

0:16:13.342 --> 0:16:17.422
<v Speaker 3>moral questions about what you owe someone who saves your life.

0:16:17.502 --> 0:16:19.622
<v Speaker 3>Because she did save her life, and there have been

0:16:19.702 --> 0:16:22.502
<v Speaker 3>moments where Selena Gomez has won an award and she

0:16:22.582 --> 0:16:25.182
<v Speaker 3>stood on stage and she has said, I owe this

0:16:25.342 --> 0:16:27.382
<v Speaker 3>to the woman who saved my life. But does she

0:16:27.502 --> 0:16:29.102
<v Speaker 3>have to do that for the rest of her for

0:16:29.142 --> 0:16:32.622
<v Speaker 3>the rest of her life and do an appreciation post

0:16:32.622 --> 0:16:35.702
<v Speaker 3>scheduled every six months? Can she just kind of drop it?

0:16:35.862 --> 0:16:37.862
<v Speaker 1>I do think she should have invited her to the world.

0:16:38.502 --> 0:16:39.662
<v Speaker 1>You do, I do?

0:16:40.142 --> 0:16:42.182
<v Speaker 4>I mean she didn't have to worry about the headcount

0:16:42.222 --> 0:16:44.222
<v Speaker 4>and keeping it under a certain amount to stick to

0:16:44.222 --> 0:16:44.782
<v Speaker 4>her budget.

0:16:45.142 --> 0:16:45.982
<v Speaker 1>So trust her.

0:16:46.022 --> 0:16:48.262
<v Speaker 2>Though, when you're a celebrity, that's a big deal, right

0:16:48.342 --> 0:16:50.742
<v Speaker 2>She might think, Oh, it reminds me a little bit

0:16:50.782 --> 0:16:53.382
<v Speaker 2>of watching the Kardashians once, watching a clip from them

0:16:53.382 --> 0:16:58.142
<v Speaker 2>talk about their surrogates, and Chloe was asking Courtney, I

0:16:58.182 --> 0:17:01.982
<v Speaker 2>think is it okay to tell the surrogate for my child,

0:17:02.062 --> 0:17:04.182
<v Speaker 2>like what they should eat and that I only want

0:17:04.182 --> 0:17:05.982
<v Speaker 2>them to eat organic and I want and blah blah blah.

0:17:05.982 --> 0:17:08.182
<v Speaker 2>And Kin was like, yeah, absolutely, like send them the food.

0:17:08.222 --> 0:17:10.861
<v Speaker 2>And then I think he said, you should tell them

0:17:10.862 --> 0:17:13.382
<v Speaker 2>what TV to watch. You don't want your unborn charpe

0:17:13.502 --> 0:17:16.662
<v Speaker 2>around any trashy television like.

0:17:16.702 --> 0:17:20.981
<v Speaker 4>This because in the US you can pay someone to

0:17:21.022 --> 0:17:23.341
<v Speaker 4>be your surrogate, whereas in Australia you cannot.

0:17:23.462 --> 0:17:25.861
<v Speaker 2>And it could be in the contract. No reality TV

0:17:26.141 --> 0:17:31.181
<v Speaker 2>in the house. In a moment, did Donald Trump just

0:17:31.262 --> 0:17:33.622
<v Speaker 2>do something no one else could do?

0:17:37.262 --> 0:17:37.861
<v Speaker 3>Andy good evening.

0:17:37.861 --> 0:17:40.982
<v Speaker 2>We begin with that major breaking news tonight, A.

0:17:41.022 --> 0:17:44.381
<v Speaker 1>New Dawn hopes rise upter Donald Trump broke as a

0:17:44.422 --> 0:17:47.542
<v Speaker 1>momentous Middle East peace deal breaking news.

0:17:47.621 --> 0:17:51.102
<v Speaker 3>President Trump has just announced on social media that Israel

0:17:51.182 --> 0:17:54.861
<v Speaker 3>and Hamas signed off on the first phase of a

0:17:54.901 --> 0:17:58.821
<v Speaker 3>peace agreement. US President Donald Trump has hailed the ceasefire

0:17:58.901 --> 0:18:00.821
<v Speaker 3>deal as a momentous breakthrough.

0:18:00.982 --> 0:18:02.982
<v Speaker 4>And I can't believe I'm saying this.

0:18:03.581 --> 0:18:05.941
<v Speaker 2>I gotta give Donald Trump some props here. I have

0:18:05.982 --> 0:18:09.462
<v Speaker 2>a question for Amelia about peace in the Middle East.

0:18:09.982 --> 0:18:14.502
<v Speaker 2>So it has been an extraordinary and historic week. As

0:18:14.542 --> 0:18:17.061
<v Speaker 2>we're recording this, we have to acknowledge there's a very

0:18:17.101 --> 0:18:19.262
<v Speaker 2>long way to go to understand if the Middle East

0:18:19.262 --> 0:18:22.022
<v Speaker 2>peace agreement between Israel and Hamas is going to hold,

0:18:22.542 --> 0:18:25.701
<v Speaker 2>and what rebuilding a devastated Gaza might look like. But

0:18:25.861 --> 0:18:28.942
<v Speaker 2>what is not in question right now is that US

0:18:29.061 --> 0:18:32.622
<v Speaker 2>President Donald Trump is claiming responsibility for doing something that

0:18:32.742 --> 0:18:35.061
<v Speaker 2>no one else has been able to do for two

0:18:35.462 --> 0:18:39.662
<v Speaker 2>long years since the October seventh attacks, get all surviving

0:18:39.661 --> 0:18:44.262
<v Speaker 2>hostages returned to Israel, more than two thousand Palestinian detainees released,

0:18:44.422 --> 0:18:48.302
<v Speaker 2>and get a ceasefire deal signed. This leads me to

0:18:48.341 --> 0:18:53.381
<v Speaker 2>a question that is bothering liberals everywhere Amilia. Did Donald

0:18:53.422 --> 0:18:55.262
<v Speaker 2>Trump do something good?

0:18:56.022 --> 0:18:56.262
<v Speaker 1>Yes?

0:18:57.901 --> 0:19:00.861
<v Speaker 4>Yes, Look, I just don't know how anyone could see

0:19:00.901 --> 0:19:03.901
<v Speaker 4>the emotional scenes this week of Israeli hostages being returned

0:19:03.901 --> 0:19:07.061
<v Speaker 4>to their families, Palestinians who have been in Israeli jails

0:19:07.502 --> 0:19:11.702
<v Speaker 4>coming home, a ceasefire after some seven hundred and thirty days.

0:19:11.742 --> 0:19:14.302
<v Speaker 4>I don't know anyone who could look at that and

0:19:14.581 --> 0:19:16.101
<v Speaker 4>answer that question any other way.

0:19:16.141 --> 0:19:17.941
<v Speaker 1>Holly. He did do something good.

0:19:17.982 --> 0:19:20.141
<v Speaker 4>And as you say, there are so many issues to

0:19:20.182 --> 0:19:22.782
<v Speaker 4>be resolved and which may never be resolved, and we're

0:19:22.782 --> 0:19:27.101
<v Speaker 4>already seeing a lot of backsliding and complications. But this

0:19:27.262 --> 0:19:30.022
<v Speaker 4>is the Trump way, make the deal and then let

0:19:30.061 --> 0:19:32.061
<v Speaker 4>other people sort out the details.

0:19:32.581 --> 0:19:36.142
<v Speaker 2>So why is he the guy who could get this done?

0:19:36.222 --> 0:19:38.421
<v Speaker 2>So is this a case of well, it kind of

0:19:38.422 --> 0:19:40.381
<v Speaker 2>had to happen sometime and Trump with the man in

0:19:40.422 --> 0:19:44.141
<v Speaker 2>the chair, or is this a case of Trump exceptionalism.

0:19:44.462 --> 0:19:46.901
<v Speaker 1>There's a thing called madman theory. Have you heard of this?

0:19:47.101 --> 0:19:49.702
<v Speaker 4>No, It comes from political science, and it was actually

0:19:49.782 --> 0:19:53.421
<v Speaker 4>invented by another very polarizing US president, Richard Nixon, And

0:19:53.462 --> 0:19:56.382
<v Speaker 4>basically it goes that if everyone thinks you're mad, they

0:19:56.462 --> 0:19:58.262
<v Speaker 4>kind of have to go along with what you want

0:19:58.341 --> 0:20:01.742
<v Speaker 4>them to do. And this came up for Nixon because

0:20:01.821 --> 0:20:04.701
<v Speaker 4>during the Cold War, when both the Soviet Union and

0:20:04.782 --> 0:20:07.101
<v Speaker 4>the United States had their fingers on the nuclear button

0:20:07.182 --> 0:20:10.821
<v Speaker 4>and they were threatening each other with total annihilation, the

0:20:10.982 --> 0:20:13.341
<v Speaker 4>Soviet Union didn't want to do anything to upset Richard

0:20:13.381 --> 0:20:16.741
<v Speaker 4>Nixon because he was just crazy enough seeming that they

0:20:16.782 --> 0:20:19.222
<v Speaker 4>thought he might in fact blow up the entire world

0:20:19.621 --> 0:20:20.622
<v Speaker 4>if they upset him.

0:20:20.782 --> 0:20:22.621
<v Speaker 3>So it's fear and not knowing what they're going to

0:20:22.702 --> 0:20:23.101
<v Speaker 3>do next.

0:20:23.141 --> 0:20:26.221
<v Speaker 4>It's fear and the unpredictability of these people, And I

0:20:26.262 --> 0:20:30.022
<v Speaker 4>think that's why Joe Biden couldn't get this done, but

0:20:30.141 --> 0:20:33.341
<v Speaker 4>Donald Trump did so. When Trump said he was going

0:20:33.381 --> 0:20:36.181
<v Speaker 4>to destroy Hamas unless they agreed to this deal, and

0:20:36.222 --> 0:20:39.502
<v Speaker 4>when he told Netanya, who, hey, you better really follow

0:20:39.542 --> 0:20:42.581
<v Speaker 4>through on this cease fire and not break it, both

0:20:42.621 --> 0:20:45.061
<v Speaker 4>sides realized they kind of had to go along with it,

0:20:45.341 --> 0:20:47.662
<v Speaker 4>because when Donald Trump says he's going to destroy you,

0:20:48.182 --> 0:20:49.981
<v Speaker 4>he might just actually destroy you.

0:20:51.101 --> 0:20:54.422
<v Speaker 2>So he might have actually done what no other president

0:20:54.462 --> 0:20:58.101
<v Speaker 2>would do and withdraw support for Israel. So Biden has

0:20:58.141 --> 0:20:59.262
<v Speaker 2>congratulated Trump.

0:20:59.381 --> 0:21:01.742
<v Speaker 3>So Bill Clinton, Yeah, everyone, Yeah.

0:21:01.542 --> 0:21:03.742
<v Speaker 2>So a lot of h I mean, I can imagine

0:21:03.742 --> 0:21:05.742
<v Speaker 2>that that was quite difficult for Biden to do given

0:21:05.782 --> 0:21:08.742
<v Speaker 2>their history. Do you think that liberals, and when I

0:21:08.742 --> 0:21:12.181
<v Speaker 2>say liberals, I mean liberals, are worried that acknowledging that

0:21:12.262 --> 0:21:14.821
<v Speaker 2>he did make an audacious deal to get this done

0:21:14.982 --> 0:21:17.022
<v Speaker 2>helps Trump at home? Do you think they're worried about that?

0:21:17.422 --> 0:21:19.621
<v Speaker 1>I think it absolutely helps Trump. If you read the

0:21:19.742 --> 0:21:21.462
<v Speaker 1>US press this week, there's.

0:21:21.262 --> 0:21:24.141
<v Speaker 4>Been a lot of sort of American exceptionalism during the rounds,

0:21:24.182 --> 0:21:26.782
<v Speaker 4>a lot of only the US could have pulled this off.

0:21:26.861 --> 0:21:30.262
<v Speaker 4>A lot of pride, even coming from places that you

0:21:30.341 --> 0:21:32.941
<v Speaker 4>might not expect to be celebrating Donald Trump. There's been

0:21:32.982 --> 0:21:36.302
<v Speaker 4>this kind of surge of national sentiment that the US

0:21:36.341 --> 0:21:38.061
<v Speaker 4>helped well made this piece happen.

0:21:38.101 --> 0:21:39.702
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, it's absolutely going to help him.

0:21:39.742 --> 0:21:43.782
<v Speaker 3>I've seen some political analysts say that Trump, while some

0:21:43.901 --> 0:21:49.141
<v Speaker 3>would suggest that he's kind of this war hungry, chaotic man,

0:21:49.262 --> 0:21:52.621
<v Speaker 3>that he actually likes peace. He wants peace, and he

0:21:52.702 --> 0:21:55.901
<v Speaker 3>wants to follow through on that. Is that true?

0:21:55.982 --> 0:21:56.542
<v Speaker 1>It's true.

0:21:56.581 --> 0:21:59.101
<v Speaker 4>That's why he has been talking about how the award

0:21:59.141 --> 0:22:01.542
<v Speaker 4>he wants more than anything is a Nobel Peace Prize.

0:22:01.542 --> 0:22:03.782
<v Speaker 4>Now he didn't get it last week, but I'm sure

0:22:03.821 --> 0:22:06.341
<v Speaker 4>he's going to be lobbying very aggressively for it next year.

0:22:06.621 --> 0:22:09.422
<v Speaker 4>Back in the eighties, when he was this New York businessman,

0:22:09.742 --> 0:22:12.581
<v Speaker 4>was known for his pension for gold toilets. Even back

0:22:12.621 --> 0:22:15.421
<v Speaker 4>then he talked about his fears about nuclear war. So

0:22:15.782 --> 0:22:19.061
<v Speaker 4>this has been a longstanding obsession of his with this

0:22:19.141 --> 0:22:21.061
<v Speaker 4>notion of peace and being a peace maker.

0:22:21.141 --> 0:22:23.101
<v Speaker 3>Do you think he's actually a contender for that award

0:22:23.462 --> 0:22:23.982
<v Speaker 3>at this point?

0:22:24.022 --> 0:22:24.741
<v Speaker 1>I think he is.

0:22:24.782 --> 0:22:26.981
<v Speaker 4>He's been able to do what no other president in

0:22:27.101 --> 0:22:28.702
<v Speaker 4>recent US history has done.

0:22:29.262 --> 0:22:31.262
<v Speaker 2>Is it fair for those people who are like wrestling

0:22:31.302 --> 0:22:33.741
<v Speaker 2>with the complexity of this the whole, Like, but I

0:22:33.782 --> 0:22:36.942
<v Speaker 2>can't stand what he's doing at home. I can't stand

0:22:36.982 --> 0:22:40.262
<v Speaker 2>the ice raids. I can't stand. It's not like admitting

0:22:40.302 --> 0:22:43.221
<v Speaker 2>that Trump did pull this off means that you have

0:22:43.262 --> 0:22:45.421
<v Speaker 2>to sign off and all that. Right, we can remember that,

0:22:45.542 --> 0:22:51.182
<v Speaker 2>like duality exists, and I don't think that saying this

0:22:51.302 --> 0:22:53.141
<v Speaker 2>was a piece of I don't know if diplomacy is

0:22:53.182 --> 0:22:55.061
<v Speaker 2>the right word with him, but this was a piece

0:22:55.061 --> 0:22:59.422
<v Speaker 2>of deal making that will go down in history. And obviously,

0:22:59.462 --> 0:23:01.821
<v Speaker 2>depending on as we've already said on the complexities of

0:23:01.821 --> 0:23:04.982
<v Speaker 2>what happened next, it's still a historical moment. It doesn't

0:23:05.022 --> 0:23:08.181
<v Speaker 2>mean you have to like suddenly wear a Maga hat.

0:23:07.982 --> 0:23:12.821
<v Speaker 4>Right, No, I didn't bring mine today. No, it absolutely

0:23:12.821 --> 0:23:15.222
<v Speaker 4>doesn't mean that. But I do think that it's been

0:23:15.262 --> 0:23:18.981
<v Speaker 4>a bit of an embarrassing moment for a lot of

0:23:19.222 --> 0:23:23.981
<v Speaker 4>small l liberal commentators and analysts because another element of

0:23:23.982 --> 0:23:28.061
<v Speaker 4>this is, remember Jared Kushna, Avanka Trump's husband, who was

0:23:28.302 --> 0:23:31.901
<v Speaker 4>very involved in foreign policy in Trump's first administration. He

0:23:31.982 --> 0:23:34.901
<v Speaker 4>was working behind the scenes on this too, and so

0:23:34.942 --> 0:23:38.141
<v Speaker 4>people are having to think, well, look, Trump does lean

0:23:38.182 --> 0:23:40.422
<v Speaker 4>on these people who we kind of make fun of

0:23:40.502 --> 0:23:42.262
<v Speaker 4>or who we don't think are up to the task,

0:23:42.422 --> 0:23:45.901
<v Speaker 4>like Jared, But Jared was involved in doing this deal,

0:23:46.061 --> 0:23:48.742
<v Speaker 4>as you say, And no matter what happens next now,

0:23:48.742 --> 0:23:50.981
<v Speaker 4>we certainly hope that the cease fire holds.

0:23:51.341 --> 0:23:52.861
<v Speaker 1>We certainly hope that there can.

0:23:52.782 --> 0:23:56.022
<v Speaker 4>Be a plan for rebuilding Gaza, which really does as

0:23:56.022 --> 0:23:59.461
<v Speaker 4>you say, Holly Lion ruins. But no matter what happens next,

0:23:59.581 --> 0:24:04.302
<v Speaker 4>the achievement of getting Hamas and Netanyahu to agree on

0:24:04.341 --> 0:24:06.181
<v Speaker 4>this stands alone.

0:24:06.341 --> 0:24:08.662
<v Speaker 3>It's very TRUMPI in to claim all the credit, which

0:24:08.661 --> 0:24:11.061
<v Speaker 3>he is absolutely done. I think someone said this was

0:24:11.101 --> 0:24:12.982
<v Speaker 3>one of the biggest things that had happened in fifty years,

0:24:12.982 --> 0:24:15.461
<v Speaker 3>and he was like one hundred, like, that's very Trump.

0:24:16.222 --> 0:24:18.701
<v Speaker 3>Was it actually him as an individual man, or was

0:24:18.742 --> 0:24:20.542
<v Speaker 3>it a bunch of people behind the scenes and he's

0:24:20.542 --> 0:24:22.101
<v Speaker 3>just standing up wanting to be the poster boy.

0:24:22.341 --> 0:24:24.302
<v Speaker 4>There were a bunch of people behind the scenes. Dearrek

0:24:24.341 --> 0:24:28.182
<v Speaker 4>Kushner was one of them. Steve Wikoff, who is a

0:24:28.341 --> 0:24:31.262
<v Speaker 4>deal maker from Trump's New York real estate days, was

0:24:31.302 --> 0:24:35.702
<v Speaker 4>also very involved. But I think, ultimately, and it brings

0:24:35.742 --> 0:24:38.502
<v Speaker 4>me no particular joy to say this. It was Trump

0:24:38.581 --> 0:24:40.862
<v Speaker 4>who got the deal over the line. So Biden had

0:24:40.861 --> 0:24:43.702
<v Speaker 4>tried very hard to make this happen. He had had

0:24:43.742 --> 0:24:46.901
<v Speaker 4>his Secretary of State traveling around the world dozens of

0:24:46.982 --> 0:24:49.861
<v Speaker 4>times trying to get these people to the negotiating table,

0:24:50.262 --> 0:24:51.302
<v Speaker 4>and it didn't work.

0:24:51.422 --> 0:24:53.022
<v Speaker 1>I think that this madman.

0:24:52.702 --> 0:24:57.101
<v Speaker 4>Theory explains to us why Trump has this unique ability

0:24:57.141 --> 0:24:58.141
<v Speaker 4>to get people to do.

0:24:58.101 --> 0:24:58.782
<v Speaker 1>What he wants.

0:24:59.462 --> 0:25:01.901
<v Speaker 4>And there are so many things that have to happen

0:25:01.942 --> 0:25:04.581
<v Speaker 4>at this point. And of course, while this is a

0:25:04.621 --> 0:25:07.741
<v Speaker 4>moment of triumph for Donald Trump and a moment of

0:25:07.782 --> 0:25:10.181
<v Speaker 4>celebration for the region and the world world, we have

0:25:10.341 --> 0:25:14.262
<v Speaker 4>to acknowledge that seventy thousand people or thereabouts have died

0:25:14.542 --> 0:25:15.461
<v Speaker 4>in this conflict.

0:25:15.861 --> 0:25:18.381
<v Speaker 1>That's why it's so important that the ceasefire has to hold.

0:25:20.581 --> 0:25:23.502
<v Speaker 2>In a moment, I am going to share the four

0:25:23.821 --> 0:25:26.861
<v Speaker 2>lines I learned this week to get you through any

0:25:26.942 --> 0:25:28.141
<v Speaker 2>stressful situation.

0:25:28.982 --> 0:25:32.942
<v Speaker 3>Want unlimited out loud access, We drop episodes every Tuesday

0:25:32.982 --> 0:25:37.181
<v Speaker 3>and Thursday exclusively for Mum and MAYA subscribers. Follow the

0:25:37.222 --> 0:25:39.102
<v Speaker 3>link in the show notes to get us in your

0:25:39.141 --> 0:25:41.941
<v Speaker 3>ears five days a week. And a huge thank you

0:25:42.101 --> 0:25:43.581
<v Speaker 3>to all our current subscribers.

0:25:49.462 --> 0:25:52.582
<v Speaker 4>A comedian hurt my feelings recently. Oh can I tell

0:25:52.581 --> 0:25:53.221
<v Speaker 4>you what happened?

0:25:53.381 --> 0:25:53.581
<v Speaker 3>Yes?

0:25:54.262 --> 0:25:58.502
<v Speaker 4>So my greatest fear in life is audience participation. Oh

0:25:58.581 --> 0:26:00.341
<v Speaker 4>me too, greatest fear? What is it?

0:26:00.381 --> 0:26:02.581
<v Speaker 3>Because we're all happy to stand on stage, but I

0:26:02.581 --> 0:26:04.862
<v Speaker 3>would never ask a question and I would never put

0:26:04.861 --> 0:26:06.661
<v Speaker 3>my hand up to go. I'll go on stage and

0:26:06.702 --> 0:26:09.341
<v Speaker 3>be a volunteer. The bravery involved in that.

0:26:09.542 --> 0:26:10.181
<v Speaker 2>I know who would?

0:26:10.821 --> 0:26:14.702
<v Speaker 1>Yes, friend, Oh, we love it.

0:26:14.821 --> 0:26:17.142
<v Speaker 2>He goes to any comedy show and stuff pretty much

0:26:17.141 --> 0:26:20.022
<v Speaker 2>for the T shirt like pick me anyway. But I

0:26:20.022 --> 0:26:22.462
<v Speaker 2>can acknowledge that most of us.

0:26:23.861 --> 0:26:26.861
<v Speaker 4>We're with you. It's why I'm scared of stand up comedy.

0:26:27.262 --> 0:26:30.102
<v Speaker 4>But my partner enjoys a bit of stand up comedy.

0:26:30.462 --> 0:26:33.382
<v Speaker 4>And he recently was in Los Angeles and he went

0:26:33.422 --> 0:26:36.542
<v Speaker 4>to the world Famous Comedy Store in West Hollywood, which

0:26:36.581 --> 0:26:39.982
<v Speaker 4>is in fact world famous and everyone who's everyone has

0:26:40.022 --> 0:26:42.942
<v Speaker 4>performed there. On the night he was there, Mark Maron

0:26:42.982 --> 0:26:46.702
<v Speaker 4>and Ali Wong did set no Bingie Wow, and then

0:26:46.821 --> 0:26:49.141
<v Speaker 4>at the very end of the night, a man named

0:26:49.302 --> 0:26:52.941
<v Speaker 4>Don Barris stood up. He is Jimmy Kimmel's warm up

0:26:53.022 --> 0:26:55.941
<v Speaker 4>act on his TV show, but I'd never heard of

0:26:56.022 --> 0:26:58.661
<v Speaker 4>him before. He stood up, was doing a bit of

0:26:58.702 --> 0:27:03.302
<v Speaker 4>crowd work, and he pointed at my partner and said,

0:27:03.661 --> 0:27:05.821
<v Speaker 4>what was it like to wake up this morning and

0:27:05.901 --> 0:27:07.821
<v Speaker 4>think I'm going to put on the ugliest shirt in

0:27:07.821 --> 0:27:11.981
<v Speaker 4>the world. So I found out about this not because

0:27:12.022 --> 0:27:14.542
<v Speaker 4>he called me in tears immediately, which is what.

0:27:14.422 --> 0:27:17.222
<v Speaker 1>I would have done. I found out about it weeks

0:27:17.341 --> 0:27:20.101
<v Speaker 1>later when we were getting.

0:27:19.861 --> 0:27:21.941
<v Speaker 4>Dressed in the morning and he turns to me and says,

0:27:22.022 --> 0:27:24.341
<v Speaker 4>what do you think of the shirt? And I said, oh, well,

0:27:24.381 --> 0:27:27.661
<v Speaker 4>I like it. I gave it to you and he said, well,

0:27:27.702 --> 0:27:30.341
<v Speaker 4>a comedian didn't like it, and then told me the story.

0:27:30.502 --> 0:27:33.861
<v Speaker 2>So the comedian dissed you because you chose the shirt.

0:27:33.982 --> 0:27:36.782
<v Speaker 4>This is why he had my feelings. I was devastated.

0:27:36.861 --> 0:27:39.341
<v Speaker 4>I'm not going to lie. I'm still carrying it around

0:27:39.341 --> 0:27:39.862
<v Speaker 4>a little bit.

0:27:40.661 --> 0:27:42.222
<v Speaker 1>Sorry. You have to explain to us what the shirt

0:27:42.262 --> 0:27:44.341
<v Speaker 1>looks like. I mean, I think it's a nice show.

0:27:44.542 --> 0:27:46.942
<v Speaker 4>It's one of those like fake rugby jerseys, so it's

0:27:46.942 --> 0:27:48.581
<v Speaker 4>not like got a name of a team on it,

0:27:48.621 --> 0:27:49.142
<v Speaker 4>but it's.

0:27:49.022 --> 0:27:53.101
<v Speaker 3>Very commendance like. It's got a color exactly white color.

0:27:53.462 --> 0:27:54.101
<v Speaker 1>A white collar.

0:27:54.422 --> 0:27:55.941
<v Speaker 4>It's got a sort of I thought it was a

0:27:56.061 --> 0:28:00.982
<v Speaker 4>very Iberian influenced color scheme of reds and vibrant yellows,

0:28:01.022 --> 0:28:03.542
<v Speaker 4>which I thought would really play off my partner's olive

0:28:03.581 --> 0:28:04.581
<v Speaker 4>skin very nicely.

0:28:05.302 --> 0:28:06.061
<v Speaker 1>And look, I know.

0:28:06.061 --> 0:28:08.581
<v Speaker 4>I'm not great at clothes. I don't pretend to be

0:28:08.621 --> 0:28:11.261
<v Speaker 4>great at clothes. But I had bought that as an

0:28:11.262 --> 0:28:13.262
<v Speaker 4>act of love, as a gesture of love, and I

0:28:13.381 --> 0:28:14.101
<v Speaker 4>thought it through.

0:28:14.222 --> 0:28:18.142
<v Speaker 1>And then to have this comedian shit on my clothing choices,

0:28:18.262 --> 0:28:18.861
<v Speaker 1>it's stung.

0:28:19.061 --> 0:28:19.941
<v Speaker 2>That is so funny.

0:28:19.942 --> 0:28:23.662
<v Speaker 3>Can I ask if Johnny your husbands has he worn

0:28:23.702 --> 0:28:24.101
<v Speaker 3>it since?

0:28:24.422 --> 0:28:24.582
<v Speaker 2>Oh?

0:28:24.661 --> 0:28:25.302
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely.

0:28:25.702 --> 0:28:27.581
<v Speaker 4>The point of him bringing it up with me was

0:28:27.621 --> 0:28:29.821
<v Speaker 4>not that it bothered him that the comedian said this.

0:28:30.182 --> 0:28:31.741
<v Speaker 4>The point of him bringing it up was that it

0:28:31.821 --> 0:28:34.181
<v Speaker 4>was genuinely confusing to him that a shirt that he

0:28:34.302 --> 0:28:38.862
<v Speaker 4>quite liked was being described as ugly, Because to him,

0:28:39.382 --> 0:28:41.902
<v Speaker 4>with the confidence of a man who enjoys crowd work,

0:28:41.982 --> 0:28:44.022
<v Speaker 4>he just thought, oh, that's confusing.

0:28:44.182 --> 0:28:46.582
<v Speaker 1>I like this shirt. That comedian doesn't like it.

0:28:46.702 --> 0:28:49.622
<v Speaker 2>The thing is so great about that story, and maybe

0:28:49.702 --> 0:28:52.382
<v Speaker 2>let's be generous. Maybe the comedian just does that gag

0:28:52.462 --> 0:28:54.221
<v Speaker 2>every night and just picks anyone and he's not.

0:28:54.222 --> 0:28:56.622
<v Speaker 1>Really, but he's still got to pick someone.

0:28:56.661 --> 0:28:58.902
<v Speaker 2>And you don't want to be that person. But as

0:28:58.942 --> 0:29:01.422
<v Speaker 2>you said, how you would react, and I would represent

0:29:01.462 --> 0:29:04.902
<v Speaker 2>for most women I know, they could never They could

0:29:04.982 --> 0:29:07.702
<v Speaker 2>never wear that shirt again, like that shit has now

0:29:07.822 --> 0:29:12.382
<v Speaker 2>been tainted. What other people think of your clothes. It

0:29:12.422 --> 0:29:16.382
<v Speaker 2>says something about your psyche or your past everything.

0:29:16.542 --> 0:29:18.102
<v Speaker 4>When he asked me what I thought of the shirt,

0:29:18.102 --> 0:29:19.342
<v Speaker 4>and I said I like it, and then he told

0:29:19.382 --> 0:29:19.822
<v Speaker 4>me the story.

0:29:19.862 --> 0:29:22.102
<v Speaker 1>He then proceeded to wear the shirt that day.

0:29:22.382 --> 0:29:25.462
<v Speaker 3>I think I've got a bit of Johnny. I reckon that. Yeah,

0:29:25.622 --> 0:29:28.062
<v Speaker 3>I reckon. If I looked at it and went I

0:29:28.222 --> 0:29:30.422
<v Speaker 3>like it, then I think I'd put on the shirt

0:29:30.462 --> 0:29:31.302
<v Speaker 3>and go about my day.

0:29:31.302 --> 0:29:33.181
<v Speaker 2>Because I just tell you often that she doesn't like

0:29:33.222 --> 0:29:33.661
<v Speaker 2>your clothes.

0:29:33.742 --> 0:29:37.902
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I just go, No one's really thinking that much

0:29:37.942 --> 0:29:40.461
<v Speaker 3>about me, And if it's making me feel good, then

0:29:40.502 --> 0:29:41.222
<v Speaker 3>I don't really care.

0:29:41.342 --> 0:29:43.421
<v Speaker 4>Mia once told me she didn't like my shirt. It

0:29:43.542 --> 0:29:46.942
<v Speaker 4>was a short sleeved linen shirt and she said that

0:29:47.022 --> 0:29:48.142
<v Speaker 4>it wasn't a good look on me.

0:29:48.422 --> 0:29:50.702
<v Speaker 1>She said that with love, not like this awful comedian.

0:29:50.782 --> 0:29:52.062
<v Speaker 1>But I never wore the shirt.

0:29:51.822 --> 0:29:55.462
<v Speaker 2>Again, and I drove that shirt immediately. The Vinies actually

0:29:55.502 --> 0:29:58.222
<v Speaker 2>exactly what I gave it to them and said, set

0:29:58.222 --> 0:30:01.702
<v Speaker 2>this free. Don't tell anyone what me a freaking said

0:30:01.742 --> 0:30:04.062
<v Speaker 2>about it? Is it okay to take the piss out

0:30:04.062 --> 0:30:05.302
<v Speaker 2>of people's clothes?

0:30:05.422 --> 0:30:05.542
<v Speaker 3>Like?

0:30:06.182 --> 0:30:08.221
<v Speaker 4>Well, that's what I wanted to bring to you today

0:30:08.302 --> 0:30:10.542
<v Speaker 4>because there was an article that Sit Harold this morning

0:30:11.142 --> 0:30:14.822
<v Speaker 4>by Chris Harrison. It was titled if you can call

0:30:14.902 --> 0:30:17.022
<v Speaker 4>me bald, I can call you fat.

0:30:18.142 --> 0:30:18.582
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:30:18.822 --> 0:30:22.021
<v Speaker 4>He makes the point that in our very PC world,

0:30:22.062 --> 0:30:25.782
<v Speaker 4>as he puts it, baldness is still deemed acceptable for ridicule.

0:30:25.902 --> 0:30:27.661
<v Speaker 4>And he says, why is that Because it's not like

0:30:27.742 --> 0:30:29.062
<v Speaker 4>men can control.

0:30:28.661 --> 0:30:30.182
<v Speaker 1>Whether or not they're bald.

0:30:30.542 --> 0:30:33.622
<v Speaker 4>And I wonder if that's the issue, Because you can

0:30:33.622 --> 0:30:36.502
<v Speaker 4>control what clothes you put on, you cannot control what

0:30:36.622 --> 0:30:37.382
<v Speaker 4>is happening on.

0:30:37.302 --> 0:30:40.462
<v Speaker 1>Your head with your hair. No bus is that the line?

0:30:40.661 --> 0:30:45.062
<v Speaker 2>That's true? However? And I know how really painful hair

0:30:45.062 --> 0:30:47.862
<v Speaker 2>loss is for men and women, but more common for

0:30:47.942 --> 0:30:50.782
<v Speaker 2>men and a more common side effective eating. And it

0:30:50.822 --> 0:30:53.542
<v Speaker 2>can be devastating, you know, it can be absolutely devastating

0:30:53.542 --> 0:30:56.421
<v Speaker 2>to confidence. But it's true that that could be a line.

0:30:56.422 --> 0:30:58.982
<v Speaker 2>But then in this day and age, and he goes

0:30:59.022 --> 0:31:02.582
<v Speaker 2>into this, Chris Harrison in this article, Yes, the baldness

0:31:02.622 --> 0:31:04.582
<v Speaker 2>is happening, but you do have choices about what to

0:31:04.622 --> 0:31:06.662
<v Speaker 2>do about it, just as you could say for all

0:31:06.702 --> 0:31:09.422
<v Speaker 2>of us. But women get this pressure more. The wrinkles

0:31:09.422 --> 0:31:11.701
<v Speaker 2>are happening, but you now have a whole lot of

0:31:11.782 --> 0:31:13.622
<v Speaker 2>choices about what to do about them, you know what

0:31:13.661 --> 0:31:17.342
<v Speaker 2>I mean. So there makes feel so much worse. So yeah, yeah,

0:31:17.462 --> 0:31:20.062
<v Speaker 2>there's still judgment attached then, because it's kind of like, oh,

0:31:20.142 --> 0:31:22.502
<v Speaker 2>you don't see it because choice, buddy, you know what

0:31:22.542 --> 0:31:22.701
<v Speaker 2>I mean.

0:31:22.702 --> 0:31:24.342
<v Speaker 3>And it's like, maybe I should tell you so that

0:31:24.462 --> 0:31:27.421
<v Speaker 3>you know that there are treatments that would fix.

0:31:27.182 --> 0:31:29.661
<v Speaker 2>Your eye exactly like your wrinkles. You don't have to

0:31:29.702 --> 0:31:32.302
<v Speaker 2>wear those on your face. Have you heard about injections?

0:31:32.422 --> 0:31:36.062
<v Speaker 3>There's this social irritation with people who So the big

0:31:36.062 --> 0:31:38.662
<v Speaker 3>one of the last week or two has been Rafael Nadal,

0:31:38.742 --> 0:31:42.102
<v Speaker 3>who is the tennis player who has been experiencing hair

0:31:42.142 --> 0:31:45.542
<v Speaker 3>loss since his twenties. Very handsome and early in his

0:31:45.582 --> 0:31:48.262
<v Speaker 3>career he had long, luscious, thick hair.

0:31:48.342 --> 0:31:51.262
<v Speaker 1>He would look lovely in the rugby shirt but oh.

0:31:51.062 --> 0:31:53.981
<v Speaker 3>My goodness, it was made for him. And just recently

0:31:53.982 --> 0:31:56.262
<v Speaker 3>and images come up of him posing with a fan

0:31:56.342 --> 0:32:00.262
<v Speaker 3>smiling and his hair loss. People have commented and just said,

0:32:00.302 --> 0:32:02.222
<v Speaker 3>you need to get to Turkey. You need to get

0:32:02.222 --> 0:32:06.062
<v Speaker 3>those hair transplants. Like people are being so mean to him.

0:32:06.102 --> 0:32:09.502
<v Speaker 3>The irony is that reportedly he has had two treatments

0:32:09.742 --> 0:32:13.421
<v Speaker 3>to try and salvage what hair he has left. But

0:32:13.462 --> 0:32:16.182
<v Speaker 3>people's irritation is like, how can you be so rich

0:32:16.822 --> 0:32:19.261
<v Speaker 3>and not have this sorted? And if you're not going

0:32:19.342 --> 0:32:21.062
<v Speaker 3>to sort it, then shave your head.

0:32:21.262 --> 0:32:22.142
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to look at it.

0:32:22.182 --> 0:32:23.222
<v Speaker 3>I don't want to look at it.

0:32:23.382 --> 0:32:23.582
<v Speaker 4>You know.

0:32:23.661 --> 0:32:26.622
<v Speaker 2>It's interesting because when I first read this article, I

0:32:26.742 --> 0:32:29.262
<v Speaker 2>thought I would never take the piss out of a

0:32:29.262 --> 0:32:31.142
<v Speaker 2>boarding man. I thought that's a terrible thing to do

0:32:31.182 --> 0:32:34.822
<v Speaker 2>it same and then I thought about things I may

0:32:34.862 --> 0:32:38.502
<v Speaker 2>have said about Princess William and Harry over the years,

0:32:39.102 --> 0:32:45.382
<v Speaker 2>particularly William increasingly Harry, that are ungenerous because to the

0:32:45.422 --> 0:32:48.302
<v Speaker 2>point Chris Harrison is making in this article, there is

0:32:48.422 --> 0:32:53.302
<v Speaker 2>pleasure somehow in mocking a man. Prince William has been

0:32:53.302 --> 0:32:55.221
<v Speaker 2>copying shit about the fact that his hairline has been

0:32:55.222 --> 0:32:57.022
<v Speaker 2>receiving for a very long time. I think if Prince

0:32:57.062 --> 0:32:58.941
<v Speaker 2>Harry makes a joke about it in his book, I

0:32:58.982 --> 0:33:00.902
<v Speaker 2>was that to say, yeah, I mean he should he

0:33:00.942 --> 0:33:03.222
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't be laughing now because he's definitely facing some of

0:33:03.262 --> 0:33:05.622
<v Speaker 2>the same stuff. But he made a joke about it

0:33:05.661 --> 0:33:09.502
<v Speaker 2>in his book. Is there's something that's kind of open

0:33:09.862 --> 0:33:12.542
<v Speaker 2>and a little bit suddenly, Do I want to say

0:33:12.582 --> 0:33:15.502
<v Speaker 2>I'm masculating? And I definitely, when I think about it,

0:33:15.982 --> 0:33:19.701
<v Speaker 2>probably have made those jokes about Prince William or a

0:33:19.782 --> 0:33:21.941
<v Speaker 2>rich and powerful man who's losing his hair, almost like

0:33:22.622 --> 0:33:24.382
<v Speaker 2>and I am not proud of this, almost like ha,

0:33:24.782 --> 0:33:26.782
<v Speaker 2>you've got it all, but not that, And that is

0:33:26.902 --> 0:33:30.181
<v Speaker 2>ugly right in me, I mean, not in them. I

0:33:30.982 --> 0:33:32.422
<v Speaker 2>don't mean that they're ugly. Oh my god.

0:33:34.182 --> 0:33:37.022
<v Speaker 4>Chris Harrison writes, people assume making fun of the ball

0:33:37.062 --> 0:33:39.862
<v Speaker 4>guy is harmless, a punchline with no real victim.

0:33:39.902 --> 0:33:42.022
<v Speaker 1>That's true, by the way. I think that's absolutely true.

0:33:42.262 --> 0:33:45.582
<v Speaker 1>They think baldness invites less emotional vulnerability than say a

0:33:45.661 --> 0:33:48.902
<v Speaker 1>joke about weight or appearance, But such assumptions ignore the

0:33:48.942 --> 0:33:52.782
<v Speaker 1>deep personal impact hair loss can have on self esteem, identity,

0:33:52.902 --> 0:33:55.421
<v Speaker 1>and even perceptions of aging or viriality.

0:33:55.622 --> 0:34:00.102
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think that's totally a thing. However, I think

0:34:00.182 --> 0:34:05.062
<v Speaker 3>that the comparison to weight is imperfect. Yeah, I think

0:34:05.102 --> 0:34:09.261
<v Speaker 3>that when it comes to men, and baldness. I think

0:34:09.542 --> 0:34:11.062
<v Speaker 3>most people know you wouldn't comment.

0:34:11.222 --> 0:34:13.902
<v Speaker 2>I hope that well, you know, I bet you that

0:34:14.062 --> 0:34:15.622
<v Speaker 2>men get a lot of why don't you just shave

0:34:15.661 --> 0:34:19.741
<v Speaker 2>it like a lot of masquerading as you know, in

0:34:19.781 --> 0:34:21.462
<v Speaker 2>the same way that they might say you can do

0:34:21.502 --> 0:34:25.582
<v Speaker 2>something about those wrinkles, Holly, they might say, you know,

0:34:25.781 --> 0:34:27.822
<v Speaker 2>you should just shave it off. People have very strong

0:34:27.862 --> 0:34:30.222
<v Speaker 2>feelings about that, don't they like, yeah, are you holding

0:34:30.261 --> 0:34:30.981
<v Speaker 2>onto that hair?

0:34:31.142 --> 0:34:34.341
<v Speaker 3>I think the difference is if you looked in most boardrooms,

0:34:34.462 --> 0:34:37.221
<v Speaker 3>if you looked at politicians, if you looked at who

0:34:37.261 --> 0:34:40.622
<v Speaker 3>is currently leading our country, you'd find examples of men

0:34:40.781 --> 0:34:41.941
<v Speaker 3>who don't have a lot of hair.

0:34:42.261 --> 0:34:43.341
<v Speaker 2>So you think it's punching off.

0:34:43.422 --> 0:34:43.982
<v Speaker 4>I think it's.

0:34:43.862 --> 0:34:47.902
<v Speaker 3>Power, and I think that that's why it feels different.

0:34:48.102 --> 0:34:50.861
<v Speaker 3>That doesn't mean it's so kay. And I also thought

0:34:50.862 --> 0:34:54.502
<v Speaker 3>that there are heaps of examples Vin Diesel, Andre Agassi,

0:34:54.701 --> 0:34:59.302
<v Speaker 3>Joe Rogan. He's one of the most powerful masculine coded

0:34:59.542 --> 0:35:01.622
<v Speaker 3>men in our culture and he doesn't have any hair.

0:35:01.942 --> 0:35:04.942
<v Speaker 3>But I also do see how it can be colored.

0:35:05.022 --> 0:35:07.902
<v Speaker 3>Is almost the buffoon, and that's what so Homer Simpson

0:35:08.261 --> 0:35:11.502
<v Speaker 3>was like the guy with that it's like the suburban dad.

0:35:11.862 --> 0:35:15.462
<v Speaker 3>And I understand that if you have hang ups about aging,

0:35:15.542 --> 0:35:17.741
<v Speaker 3>that can be really confronting to kind of look in

0:35:17.741 --> 0:35:19.582
<v Speaker 3>the mirror and go, oh, my goodness, I'm looking like

0:35:19.622 --> 0:35:19.941
<v Speaker 3>my father.

0:35:20.102 --> 0:35:21.902
<v Speaker 4>Well, and you're making me realize a bit of a

0:35:21.942 --> 0:35:25.381
<v Speaker 4>phenomenon that I've noticed, which is when you're in a

0:35:25.422 --> 0:35:29.542
<v Speaker 4>group with a man who is bald, more often than not,

0:35:30.142 --> 0:35:34.661
<v Speaker 4>he will make a joke drawing attention to it. You've

0:35:34.701 --> 0:35:35.701
<v Speaker 4>been in a moment like.

0:35:35.741 --> 0:35:39.542
<v Speaker 2>Death, but that's quite a female defensively where we'll do that.

0:35:39.622 --> 0:35:41.461
<v Speaker 2>You know, will be like, oh, I know I look

0:35:41.622 --> 0:35:42.302
<v Speaker 2>like this today.

0:35:42.661 --> 0:35:44.381
<v Speaker 1>Well, now I understand why they're doing it.

0:35:44.382 --> 0:35:47.221
<v Speaker 4>They're doing it because it is actually hurtful to have

0:35:47.302 --> 0:35:50.142
<v Speaker 4>those jokes made, and yet they're expected to shrug them off.

0:35:50.221 --> 0:35:53.341
<v Speaker 4>So in an effort to gain control over the situation

0:35:53.622 --> 0:35:56.661
<v Speaker 4>and call it out before anyone else does, that's.

0:35:56.462 --> 0:35:57.181
<v Speaker 1>Why they do it.

0:35:57.261 --> 0:35:59.941
<v Speaker 2>What about amongst friends, We've talked about this before, that

0:35:59.942 --> 0:36:03.862
<v Speaker 2>that joshing and taking the peace culture, which is enormous

0:36:03.902 --> 0:36:08.021
<v Speaker 2>among certainly Australian men, I would say definitely englishmen too.

0:36:08.582 --> 0:36:10.582
<v Speaker 2>The sign of love is how much shit you give

0:36:10.622 --> 0:36:13.741
<v Speaker 2>each other, and it may sting but that's part of it.

0:36:14.342 --> 0:36:16.821
<v Speaker 2>And we've said that women we have a slightly more

0:36:16.862 --> 0:36:20.622
<v Speaker 2>complicated situation with that because we often know that it's pointed,

0:36:20.822 --> 0:36:23.741
<v Speaker 2>or we know that our worth and verticomas is more

0:36:23.781 --> 0:36:26.102
<v Speaker 2>tied to our appearance, so it hurts more. But is

0:36:26.102 --> 0:36:29.421
<v Speaker 2>it okay within a friend group to take the piss

0:36:29.462 --> 0:36:30.702
<v Speaker 2>out of each other about aging?

0:36:30.982 --> 0:36:33.301
<v Speaker 3>I still wouldn't my closest male friends. There is no

0:36:33.302 --> 0:36:35.181
<v Speaker 3>way I would make a joke about them losing their hair.

0:36:35.261 --> 0:36:38.542
<v Speaker 3>It is too sensitive. I can tell from a mile away.

0:36:38.741 --> 0:36:41.381
<v Speaker 3>And maybe it's my age group as well, that the

0:36:41.422 --> 0:36:43.462
<v Speaker 3>men that I know are in the early stages of it.

0:36:43.781 --> 0:36:46.781
<v Speaker 3>And this guy says balding is a lot harder than

0:36:46.822 --> 0:36:50.301
<v Speaker 3>being bald, like, that's a really awkward process. I think

0:36:50.342 --> 0:36:54.102
<v Speaker 3>any comment about someone's appearance that makes them feel conspicuous

0:36:54.142 --> 0:36:57.022
<v Speaker 3>and visible, they can joke about it. You can't. I

0:36:57.062 --> 0:36:59.582
<v Speaker 3>can tell anything I want about how big I am,

0:37:00.102 --> 0:37:02.382
<v Speaker 3>but I just reckon. You don't know how that person

0:37:02.422 --> 0:37:04.702
<v Speaker 3>is today. You don't know how many comments they've got.

0:37:04.822 --> 0:37:07.582
<v Speaker 3>I just wouldn't. I think that's a good rule. And

0:37:07.622 --> 0:37:10.302
<v Speaker 3>this guy was saying he's in meetings people are joking

0:37:10.302 --> 0:37:13.021
<v Speaker 3>about Oh all the lights went off, like something about

0:37:13.022 --> 0:37:15.661
<v Speaker 3>his bald head and solar panels. Like in the workplace,

0:37:15.701 --> 0:37:16.941
<v Speaker 3>you just go drop it.

0:37:17.302 --> 0:37:19.902
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I wonder if the female equivalent is gray hair,

0:37:20.062 --> 0:37:25.022
<v Speaker 4>because they're both like visible signs of aging on top

0:37:25.102 --> 0:37:28.661
<v Speaker 4>of your head, and you would never casually point out

0:37:28.701 --> 0:37:31.301
<v Speaker 4>that a woman had gray hair, even a friend of yours.

0:37:31.382 --> 0:37:33.542
<v Speaker 4>I don't think. I think we kind of are agreeing

0:37:33.582 --> 0:37:36.382
<v Speaker 4>that we're not talking about that. But on the punching

0:37:36.462 --> 0:37:40.582
<v Speaker 4>up thing. Carolina Donna, who who hosts Sentimental Garbage that podcast.

0:37:41.062 --> 0:37:44.062
<v Speaker 4>She was talking in the context of Taylor Swift's new album,

0:37:44.181 --> 0:37:47.502
<v Speaker 4>and Taylor Swift has been criticized for punching down in

0:37:47.542 --> 0:37:50.142
<v Speaker 4>a song that people have interpreted as a disk track

0:37:50.622 --> 0:37:54.261
<v Speaker 4>targeting Charlie XCX. She says she doesn't believe in the

0:37:54.261 --> 0:37:56.902
<v Speaker 4>concept of punching down or punching up in humor. She

0:37:57.022 --> 0:38:00.341
<v Speaker 4>says that the only real test of whether a joke

0:38:00.462 --> 0:38:03.861
<v Speaker 4>is okay is if it lands if it's funny. So

0:38:04.022 --> 0:38:06.341
<v Speaker 4>I just want to ask in this case.

0:38:06.302 --> 0:38:09.342
<v Speaker 2>I don't buy that because the question of if it's funny.

0:38:09.102 --> 0:38:11.382
<v Speaker 3>Can be fun everyone in the room except the person who.

0:38:11.502 --> 0:38:15.582
<v Speaker 2>Who was a very subjective question, you know, everyone else

0:38:15.622 --> 0:38:17.861
<v Speaker 2>might think that song is hilarious about Charlie XX, or

0:38:17.862 --> 0:38:21.181
<v Speaker 2>that the ball joke is great. But if he doesn't, yeah.

0:38:21.022 --> 0:38:23.382
<v Speaker 4>I guess bringing it back to the shirt incident that

0:38:23.502 --> 0:38:26.661
<v Speaker 4>inspired this, yes, that's not a very funny joke.

0:38:26.902 --> 0:38:30.222
<v Speaker 3>I don't think it's funny. I really cringe at crowd

0:38:30.221 --> 0:38:32.142
<v Speaker 3>work for that exact reason that I just think. I

0:38:32.221 --> 0:38:36.421
<v Speaker 3>do not find anything that embarrasses someone funny. And maybe

0:38:36.422 --> 0:38:38.422
<v Speaker 3>it's a female thing that I just go. I've had

0:38:38.502 --> 0:38:40.942
<v Speaker 3>enough experiences where I've felt mocked or made fun of,

0:38:41.062 --> 0:38:43.982
<v Speaker 3>in conspicuous or conspicuous, and I just want to be invisible.

0:38:44.022 --> 0:38:46.702
<v Speaker 2>Or the reason they do it now and obviously comedians

0:38:46.741 --> 0:38:48.341
<v Speaker 2>have always done it, but the reason they do it

0:38:48.382 --> 0:38:50.022
<v Speaker 2>now and it is because it's the bit you can

0:38:50.102 --> 0:38:52.941
<v Speaker 2>put on social because you've got your set, and your

0:38:52.942 --> 0:38:55.542
<v Speaker 2>sets the same every night mostly right. So if I

0:38:55.622 --> 0:38:59.021
<v Speaker 2>go and see Mark Maron, he's worked out his hour

0:38:59.502 --> 0:39:01.301
<v Speaker 2>and he can't put that on social because then you're

0:39:01.302 --> 0:39:02.502
<v Speaker 2>not going to go and see him. But you can

0:39:02.542 --> 0:39:04.701
<v Speaker 2>put the crowd work bit on social over and over again.

0:39:04.781 --> 0:39:07.661
<v Speaker 2>So now it's become even more important and they've got

0:39:07.701 --> 0:39:08.622
<v Speaker 2>to walk that line.

0:39:08.781 --> 0:39:11.781
<v Speaker 4>We're going to pour a picture of the shirt that

0:39:11.942 --> 0:39:17.301
<v Speaker 4>I purchased for Johnny on Instagram and you can tell

0:39:17.342 --> 0:39:18.821
<v Speaker 4>me if I screwed up or not.

0:39:20.302 --> 0:39:22.181
<v Speaker 2>I want to leave us with a bit of wisdom

0:39:22.221 --> 0:39:24.582
<v Speaker 2>today and it's not my wisdom, but I've stolen it

0:39:24.781 --> 0:39:26.942
<v Speaker 2>and I am implementing it and I am handing it

0:39:26.982 --> 0:39:28.661
<v Speaker 2>around like Lolly's. Would you like to hear it?

0:39:28.822 --> 0:39:29.142
<v Speaker 3>Yes?

0:39:29.582 --> 0:39:31.382
<v Speaker 2>So, Amelia, I don't know if you mind me saying this.

0:39:31.542 --> 0:39:33.421
<v Speaker 2>So you had something big and important to do last night.

0:39:33.542 --> 0:39:33.861
<v Speaker 1>I did.

0:39:33.982 --> 0:39:34.502
<v Speaker 2>What did you do?

0:39:34.582 --> 0:39:37.462
<v Speaker 1>Test? I was one of the Boyer lecturers.

0:39:37.502 --> 0:39:40.701
<v Speaker 4>That's an ABC lecture series about the future of Australia.

0:39:41.022 --> 0:39:44.181
<v Speaker 2>That's no big deal, just the future of Australia with

0:39:44.382 --> 0:39:46.261
<v Speaker 2>like all the really big brains.

0:39:46.622 --> 0:39:47.662
<v Speaker 3>So where was it?

0:39:47.661 --> 0:39:51.142
<v Speaker 4>It was at the ABC studios. Johnny showed up in

0:39:51.382 --> 0:39:55.022
<v Speaker 4>a polo shirt, but not the I was relieved by

0:39:55.062 --> 0:39:57.901
<v Speaker 4>because otherwise Julia Baird, who was hosting.

0:39:59.542 --> 0:40:01.902
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, we were in the afternoon. Melia was prepping and

0:40:01.902 --> 0:40:03.942
<v Speaker 2>while I was sitting next to her, she was nervous.

0:40:03.942 --> 0:40:07.062
<v Speaker 2>We talked about being nervous and I immediately had to

0:40:07.062 --> 0:40:08.982
<v Speaker 2>pull out my phone to share something with it. I

0:40:09.022 --> 0:40:11.102
<v Speaker 2>had one of those moment's recently when you're listening to

0:40:11.102 --> 0:40:12.701
<v Speaker 2>something and I had to pull the car over to

0:40:12.741 --> 0:40:15.022
<v Speaker 2>make a note on my notes app. It was on

0:40:15.062 --> 0:40:18.622
<v Speaker 2>a podcast called wild Card, which is an interview show

0:40:18.822 --> 0:40:21.821
<v Speaker 2>hosted by this NPR journalist American called Rachel Martin, and

0:40:21.862 --> 0:40:24.861
<v Speaker 2>basically it's like you pull random cards and you answer

0:40:24.902 --> 0:40:27.542
<v Speaker 2>the questions on it. This one was with Selene Song.

0:40:27.622 --> 0:40:29.901
<v Speaker 2>She is a movie director. She is amazing. She made

0:40:29.902 --> 0:40:32.382
<v Speaker 2>Past Lives, which is one of my favorite films. She

0:40:32.462 --> 0:40:36.142
<v Speaker 2>also made Materialists, which is not but still she's very talented.

0:40:36.741 --> 0:40:39.301
<v Speaker 2>The last card that she pulled, the question was what

0:40:39.502 --> 0:40:44.022
<v Speaker 2>truth guides your life more than any other? And what

0:40:44.142 --> 0:40:47.062
<v Speaker 2>Selene's song then shared was like a mantra, like these

0:40:47.102 --> 0:40:51.102
<v Speaker 2>four lines that she herself had learnt from her professor

0:40:51.102 --> 0:40:55.342
<v Speaker 2>at Columbia or something like another big important person. Selene's

0:40:55.342 --> 0:40:58.102
<v Speaker 2>song describes them as the four rules for anything we

0:40:58.181 --> 0:41:00.861
<v Speaker 2>have to do as humans, Right, Okay, I had to

0:41:00.902 --> 0:41:03.181
<v Speaker 2>immediately put them down. So you're turning up to a

0:41:03.261 --> 0:41:06.022
<v Speaker 2>thing like a conversation with someone that you know is

0:41:06.062 --> 0:41:08.261
<v Speaker 2>going to be difficult, a meeting that might be confrontational,

0:41:08.462 --> 0:41:11.582
<v Speaker 2>something for work, boy lecture, or something more relatable in

0:41:11.622 --> 0:41:14.341
<v Speaker 2>your life that makes you nervous and worried, arguing with

0:41:14.382 --> 0:41:15.462
<v Speaker 2>your landlord, whatever it is.

0:41:15.741 --> 0:41:16.782
<v Speaker 1>The White Merchant.

0:41:17.221 --> 0:41:22.181
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, yes, Number one show up Now I think

0:41:22.221 --> 0:41:23.741
<v Speaker 2>what they mean by show up we all know in

0:41:23.862 --> 0:41:27.501
<v Speaker 2>common parlance now that means be present, be there right.

0:41:28.102 --> 0:41:32.421
<v Speaker 2>Number two, pay attention. This is my favorite. Number three

0:41:32.701 --> 0:41:36.901
<v Speaker 2>speak from the heart, and number four the hardest, Have

0:41:37.102 --> 0:41:38.822
<v Speaker 2>no expectations.

0:41:39.822 --> 0:41:41.582
<v Speaker 1>So I like that.

0:41:41.741 --> 0:41:45.341
<v Speaker 2>I loved it so much because whenever you have to

0:41:45.342 --> 0:41:47.742
<v Speaker 2>do anything that you're nervous about, or you've been thinking

0:41:47.741 --> 0:41:50.262
<v Speaker 2>about a lot, or that activates you in any way

0:41:50.741 --> 0:41:52.301
<v Speaker 2>in your mind, you always play out and this is

0:41:52.302 --> 0:41:53.902
<v Speaker 2>how it's going to go, and this is the outcome

0:41:53.942 --> 0:41:55.582
<v Speaker 2>I want, and all those things. And if you get

0:41:55.582 --> 0:41:57.701
<v Speaker 2>that outcome, you feel like you've been successful, and if

0:41:57.701 --> 0:42:00.102
<v Speaker 2>you don't get that outcome, you feel like you've failed.

0:42:00.382 --> 0:42:03.941
<v Speaker 2>And in reality, it's very unlikely that you affected whether

0:42:04.022 --> 0:42:05.701
<v Speaker 2>or not you've got that outcome. A whole lot of

0:42:05.701 --> 0:42:08.221
<v Speaker 2>different things will have affected that. So I love have

0:42:08.302 --> 0:42:11.102
<v Speaker 2>no expectations, although it's not a question the hardest one,

0:42:11.701 --> 0:42:16.102
<v Speaker 2>and I love pay attention because I think everything from

0:42:16.422 --> 0:42:19.142
<v Speaker 2>sitting down to do this show every day to having

0:42:19.142 --> 0:42:23.181
<v Speaker 2>a difficult conversation with my teenager. If I'm listening and

0:42:23.261 --> 0:42:25.942
<v Speaker 2>I'm really there and I'm paying attention and I'm not

0:42:26.022 --> 0:42:27.861
<v Speaker 2>thinking in my head, oh that thing I just said,

0:42:27.902 --> 0:42:30.142
<v Speaker 2>I shouldn't have said that thing, you know what I mean,

0:42:30.781 --> 0:42:34.582
<v Speaker 2>then I always the outcome is better every single time.

0:42:34.661 --> 0:42:36.661
<v Speaker 4>But every one of these was so helpful to me

0:42:36.741 --> 0:42:39.542
<v Speaker 4>because just take the first one. Show up sounds obvious,

0:42:40.022 --> 0:42:42.221
<v Speaker 4>but what that speaks to is this was a very

0:42:42.261 --> 0:42:44.861
<v Speaker 4>intimidating thing for me to do, and I had to

0:42:44.942 --> 0:42:48.982
<v Speaker 4>work through, uncharacteristically for me, some imposter syndrome around it.

0:42:49.342 --> 0:42:52.221
<v Speaker 1>But show up says you just got to show up.

0:42:52.462 --> 0:42:55.022
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, someone's going to show up, may as well be you,

0:42:55.181 --> 0:42:57.062
<v Speaker 4>And I found that really powerful as well.

0:42:57.542 --> 0:43:00.261
<v Speaker 2>Speak from the hearts quite hard because I think that

0:43:00.261 --> 0:43:03.261
<v Speaker 2>that's a vulnerability, you know. I like to sort of

0:43:03.261 --> 0:43:06.462
<v Speaker 2>say this is how I'm feeling, I guess or whatever

0:43:06.462 --> 0:43:09.382
<v Speaker 2>it is. But that also just means be authentic, really know.

0:43:09.862 --> 0:43:10.102
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:43:10.142 --> 0:43:13.062
<v Speaker 3>I got a tip once from a performance psychologist which

0:43:13.102 --> 0:43:15.861
<v Speaker 3>was when you feel your brain start to wonder, which

0:43:15.902 --> 0:43:18.662
<v Speaker 3>happens whether you're on stage, sometimes when you're doing a speech,

0:43:18.741 --> 0:43:21.701
<v Speaker 3>sometimes when you're in an important meeting like focusing on

0:43:21.822 --> 0:43:24.142
<v Speaker 3>tiny little things like if I'm speaking to you holy

0:43:24.302 --> 0:43:26.102
<v Speaker 3>like even if you just have to go look at

0:43:26.102 --> 0:43:28.461
<v Speaker 3>their eyebrows, look at their blood, like take yourself back

0:43:28.502 --> 0:43:31.982
<v Speaker 3>into the moment in kind of like minuscule details that

0:43:32.062 --> 0:43:35.502
<v Speaker 3>should like reorient you to that moment. But little mantras

0:43:35.542 --> 0:43:37.022
<v Speaker 3>they make such a difference, don't they do.

0:43:37.142 --> 0:43:38.982
<v Speaker 2>So now this is on notes up in my phone.

0:43:38.982 --> 0:43:41.102
<v Speaker 2>I welcome you put on notes up in your phone

0:43:41.142 --> 0:43:41.862
<v Speaker 2>if you want it.

0:43:41.862 --> 0:43:42.822
<v Speaker 1>It was really helpful.

0:43:43.142 --> 0:43:45.381
<v Speaker 2>And I'm gonna see if it's going to change my life.

0:43:45.382 --> 0:43:46.902
<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm always looking for them that's going to

0:43:47.022 --> 0:43:47.742
<v Speaker 2>change my life.

0:43:48.622 --> 0:43:50.741
<v Speaker 3>Has changed my life. And I say, I felt nerves

0:43:50.781 --> 0:43:52.582
<v Speaker 3>the other day and I said, my mantrat, nerves went

0:43:52.982 --> 0:43:55.902
<v Speaker 3>excellence over perfection. I say that all the time myself.

0:43:56.502 --> 0:44:00.062
<v Speaker 2>That's it for today's show. A massive thank you to

0:44:00.142 --> 0:44:02.381
<v Speaker 2>all of you out louders for listening or maybe even

0:44:02.422 --> 0:44:04.741
<v Speaker 2>watching us on YouTube. Remember you can always do that.

0:44:05.261 --> 0:44:07.582
<v Speaker 2>And thank you, of course to our amazing team for

0:44:07.661 --> 0:44:09.942
<v Speaker 2>putting it together. Before we go, I want to tell

0:44:09.942 --> 0:44:13.662
<v Speaker 2>you about something else on tomorrow's subset. We are doing

0:44:13.661 --> 0:44:16.702
<v Speaker 2>this thing well, jesse M and I all answer the question,

0:44:17.542 --> 0:44:19.622
<v Speaker 2>what did you do yesterday, and I promise you in

0:44:19.622 --> 0:44:22.341
<v Speaker 2>the episode we explain why I'm asking this question, but

0:44:22.542 --> 0:44:24.421
<v Speaker 2>quite a lot of you have already answered it because

0:44:24.502 --> 0:44:26.582
<v Speaker 2>yesterday I jumped in the outluders Facebook group, which is

0:44:26.582 --> 0:44:29.261
<v Speaker 2>where we have conversations about the show, and I asked

0:44:29.261 --> 0:44:31.942
<v Speaker 2>the outlouders to tell me in three sentences is what

0:44:31.982 --> 0:44:35.741
<v Speaker 2>they did yesterday? And oh my god, the outlouders are

0:44:35.741 --> 0:44:37.941
<v Speaker 2>doing such interesting things. Not all of them. I mean,

0:44:37.982 --> 0:44:39.661
<v Speaker 2>some people are on holiday and they're having a great

0:44:39.661 --> 0:44:42.382
<v Speaker 2>time and that's nice, but also where they are what

0:44:42.502 --> 0:44:44.502
<v Speaker 2>they're doing. You have to go and look at this thread.

0:44:44.542 --> 0:44:45.742
<v Speaker 2>It is so great.

0:44:46.102 --> 0:44:47.702
<v Speaker 1>That's such a great prompt.

0:44:47.942 --> 0:44:51.462
<v Speaker 4>And hey, don't forget to be listening to Parenting out Loud,

0:44:51.502 --> 0:44:55.542
<v Speaker 4>which drops every week on a Saturday. This Saturday, we're

0:44:55.582 --> 0:44:58.462
<v Speaker 4>going to be asking how much would you pay for

0:44:58.502 --> 0:45:02.861
<v Speaker 4>the perfect baby name? And we tackle Halloween. Is it

0:45:02.902 --> 0:45:05.142
<v Speaker 4>bringing a sense of community or is it just a

0:45:05.221 --> 0:45:08.261
<v Speaker 4>punish for parents? Find it in its own feed by

0:45:08.261 --> 0:45:11.781
<v Speaker 4>searching Parenting out Loud and tap follow so you don't

0:45:11.822 --> 0:45:12.582
<v Speaker 4>miss an episode.

0:45:12.701 --> 0:45:14.622
<v Speaker 2>Jesse, you need two baby names? How much you need

0:45:14.701 --> 0:45:15.181
<v Speaker 2>to pay for them?

0:45:15.542 --> 0:45:17.181
<v Speaker 3>Well, you know, I'm just going with my f one,

0:45:17.382 --> 0:45:18.701
<v Speaker 3>Blando and Lewis there we go.

0:45:20.181 --> 0:45:25.981
<v Speaker 2>L goodbye, out loud eye. Shout out to any Mamma

0:45:26.062 --> 0:45:28.861
<v Speaker 2>Mia subscribers listening. If you love the show and you

0:45:28.942 --> 0:45:31.821
<v Speaker 2>want to support us, subscribing to Mamma Mia is the

0:45:31.982 --> 0:45:34.102
<v Speaker 2>very best way to do it. There's a link in

0:45:34.142 --> 0:45:35.261
<v Speaker 2>the episode description