Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia out loud. It's what women are actually talking
Speaker 2: about on Wednesday, the fifteenth of October. My name is
Speaker 2: Hollywayne Wright, my name is Amelia Luster.
Speaker 3: And I am Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 2: And here's what's made our agenda for today. I have
Speaker 2: a very basic question for non basic foreign policy expert Amelia.
Speaker 2: Did Donald Trump just do something that only he could?
Speaker 4: And a comedian hurt my feelings recently and that got
Speaker 4: me thinking about what is okay and not okay to
Speaker 4: make fun of.
Speaker 3: Plus, Selena Gomez posted a behind the scenes video from
Speaker 3: her wedding was actually filmed by Taylor Swift, and Taylor
Speaker 3: Swift accidentally revealed something but Selena didn't want us to say.
Speaker 2: She wouldn't be happy.
Speaker 3: The Internet is not happy with what they saw.
Speaker 2: But first, we can't go on without discussing a little
Speaker 2: thing that broke the internet briefly overnight. Our friend Kim Kardashian,
Speaker 2: she's not your friend, she's my friend. I'm claiming her.
Speaker 2: The woman who really knows how to make money. Her brand,
Speaker 2: Skims launched something called the Ultimate Bush Song. And if
Speaker 2: you're like, what do those words mean? I think if
Speaker 2: you think about it for another second, you've probably got
Speaker 2: it in your head.
Speaker 4: Is it a Steve Erwin inspired flip flop?
Speaker 2: Really thick like spider proof, soul repellent in it and stuff.
Speaker 2: It's not that it's not the Ultimate bush Song in
Speaker 2: an Australian sense, although that's genius. It is a teeny
Speaker 2: tiny mesh g string that comes in seven different shades
Speaker 2: and textures that basically is a murkin. So the front part,
Speaker 2: the little triangle part has fake pubic hair on it
Speaker 2: to put no final hand washed only, and it comes
Speaker 2: in all kinds of different shades. You can have straight,
Speaker 2: you can have curly, you can have full, you can
Speaker 2: have meat. It's absolutely nuts and although as one common
Speaker 2: to pointed out, I could grow one of these myself.
Speaker 2: In forty eight hours, they have sold out at seventy
Speaker 2: bucks a pop, proving once again that Kim and her
Speaker 2: mates Emma Green and Co. Are marketing geniuses, but also
Speaker 2: maybe that the bushes back. I don't know. Jesse wants
Speaker 2: your take on why we all went crazy for the
Speaker 2: Well we didn't. I don't know when did you buy one?
Speaker 3: I tried, but it was all sold out and I
Speaker 3: couldn't decide between the red curly and the red straight.
Speaker 3: And I was kind of glad that it all sold
Speaker 3: out because I didn't like the image of a white
Speaker 3: head g string just hanging in a warehouse, just not knowing,
Speaker 3: going into landfill.
Speaker 2: Like I like, nobody would have bought the white one.
Speaker 3: There was a white straight one. That made me a
Speaker 3: bit sad.
Speaker 4: To be completely honest, Sorry, when we keep talking about
Speaker 4: them being sold out, do we think that there were
Speaker 4: any or have they just declared this is like Meghan's jams,
Speaker 4: like where they're ten.
Speaker 3: I think there might have been ten. I don't think
Speaker 3: that they had an abundance of stock.
Speaker 2: Well who knows, right, because the thing that we do
Speaker 2: know about Skims because Emma Greed, who is you know,
Speaker 2: one of the geniuses behind the brand. She has talked
Speaker 2: about this openly. She said they do something called stunt releasing,
Speaker 2: and they did it with the nipple bra, where they
Speaker 2: basically will release a product that will get everybody talking
Speaker 2: for a hot minute, like we're doing now and the
Speaker 2: internet is doing right now, and really it just drives
Speaker 2: people to the website to buy other stuff. What is
Speaker 2: particularly interesting though about the Bush song is when she
Speaker 2: was talking about the nipple bra, she said, the nipple
Speaker 2: bra was designed to sell look at me holding, well,
Speaker 2: I'm doing this is not appropriate. The nipple bra was
Speaker 2: kind of to get you to buy a T shirt,
Speaker 2: to get you to buy a baby tea, because the
Speaker 2: idea of those baby teas in Kardashian kind of style
Speaker 2: is it would look cute if your nipples were showing
Speaker 2: through and whatever.
Speaker 3: I have seen more nipples since that nipple braw came out.
Speaker 2: I have, So it was a leader. It was a
Speaker 2: leader to get So what is the bushy thong trying
Speaker 2: to get us to buy?
Speaker 3: Let's not forget that twenty twenty five declared by Vogue
Speaker 3: as the year of the Bush.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 3: There's been Runway You've forgotten, which is really are about today?
Speaker 3: Full Bush in a bikini training on TikTok has been
Speaker 3: for the US summer YEP. And then there was Runway
Speaker 3: Shows twenty four to twenty five that season where the
Speaker 3: Runway models I think they were mercans, but you could
Speaker 3: see kind of the outline of pubic hair. And what's
Speaker 3: really in at the moment is that naked dress where
Speaker 3: you can see just the underwear underneath. I can see
Speaker 3: a world in which you wear an American underneath.
Speaker 1: I can.
Speaker 2: And also I was thinking about, like, you know those
Speaker 2: satin bias cut skirts that everybody's wearing. Yes, the moment, yes,
Speaker 2: is that if you were wearing one of these underneath it,
Speaker 2: they'd just be like a rippling suggestion of your pubic
Speaker 2: hare go texture suggestion might be.
Speaker 1: Hot for some people.
Speaker 3: I can see, I can see me are doing it
Speaker 3: in five Oh my godness, she like you wonder why
Speaker 3: it's sold out? You know who bought it in every
Speaker 3: color because she doesn't know if she feels like curly Australia.
Speaker 2: They want you to buy lots of them, even if
Speaker 2: they've only got ten. This say, match, don't match. Switch
Speaker 2: it up at midday so you can change the color
Speaker 2: of your bush throughout the day. Very helpful.
Speaker 3: Obviously you might want to curl for the evening. We
Speaker 3: recorded a subscriber episode yesterday about wedding etiquette, Oh, which
Speaker 3: was very very juicy. But I kind of wish that
Speaker 3: before we recorded that, we knew more about Selena Gomez's
Speaker 3: wedding because we've been a little bit late to this story,
Speaker 3: but I've only just got across it this morning, and
Speaker 3: I feel as though it raises some thorny ethical questions
Speaker 3: which we like to explore on this show.
Speaker 2: Can I ask you something? Yes, So Selena Gomez. Obviously
Speaker 2: I know all about who Selena Gomez is kinder as in,
Speaker 2: she's the most followed woman on Instagram, correct, which I
Speaker 2: don't really understand why that is. But she is a big, big,
Speaker 2: big big deal music acting being Taylor swisths best.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's the evolution, right, She was a Disney star,
Speaker 3: like and that's where she got really famous. That's why
Speaker 3: she's got the young people following, and then she went
Speaker 3: into only medicin building and then that's where she is now.
Speaker 3: And she's had this incredible singing career, best mates.
Speaker 1: With Taylor red Beauty, which is made Oh yes, yeah.
Speaker 3: So these are some of the questions that her wedding raises.
Speaker 3: Should you vape at your wedding? Should you vape at
Speaker 3: your wedding if your friend literally donated one of her
Speaker 3: kidneys to you, and should you have invited that friend
Speaker 3: who gave you a significant organ.
Speaker 1: To your wedding.
Speaker 2: Should she have come right?
Speaker 3: These I know they're really hard and Selena needs some help.
Speaker 3: So today Selena is probably texting her friend Taylor Swift,
Speaker 3: being like, was I in the wrong? Like they're definitely
Speaker 3: going back and forth, and they're texting about a woman's
Speaker 3: right to vape. But we're going to go back to
Speaker 3: the beginning. So we've established to Selena Gomez is and
Speaker 3: then a few weeks ago she gets married. She's been
Speaker 3: drip feeding us content as every good bride does. And
Speaker 3: then I think that she was trying to do a
Speaker 3: bit of a shout out to Taylor Swift, which now
Speaker 3: means I have more wedding content to drop.
Speaker 2: Well, because for the first week there was no Taylor
Speaker 2: any of the pictures. It's quite a good strategy. She
Speaker 2: was like, my best friend isn't gonna, you know, completely
Speaker 2: take over my day. But she was definitely there, everybody,
Speaker 2: you just haven't seen me yet. And then to coincide
Speaker 2: with the album launch.
Speaker 3: She shared a video that Taylor Swift herself had taken,
Speaker 3: and you can see that the moment the camera pans
Speaker 3: to Selena, she tries to hide something in her hand,
Speaker 3: which is very clearly a vape.
Speaker 1: Now I have something to interrupt with.
Speaker 4: Yeah, an important piece of advice if you're getting married,
Speaker 4: or if you're planning on getting married sometime in the
Speaker 4: near future. Taylor Swift as videographer at your wedding is
Speaker 4: a really smart choice. And I'll tell you why. The
Speaker 4: person who is documenting your wedding, either through photos or
Speaker 4: through video, must be tall.
Speaker 3: Think about it, and taller than you.
Speaker 1: Taller than you, which is not hard.
Speaker 4: Selena's not particularly tall, and Nora is her husband Benny,
Speaker 4: but Taylor is a tall woman and therefore will take
Speaker 4: the most flattering video and photos of you at your wedding.
Speaker 3: That's why take them.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not kind to my friends. Now fans are
Speaker 3: pissed because vaping is not good for your kidneys. And
Speaker 3: technically her one kidney belongs to a woman named Francia
Speaker 3: what who donated it to her in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2: Twenty seventeen, how old Selena Gomez ish?
Speaker 3: Thirty three? So she was that was eight years ago,
Speaker 3: let's go, she was like twenty five ish.
Speaker 4: Wow?
Speaker 2: And why did she need a kidney transplant? Or is
Speaker 2: that none of my business. I suspect it's none of
Speaker 2: my business, but I still need to know.
Speaker 3: Of course, she's told you she had a loopus Fler,
Speaker 3: Her and Francier were good mates. And then what happened
Speaker 3: was she needed this kidney, Francier donated the kidney. Then
Speaker 3: in the aftermath things got a bit weird. There was unfollowing,
Speaker 3: there was tension. There was a weird TikTok video where
Speaker 3: Selena Gomez made a joke about how much alcohol she
Speaker 3: drinks and everyone was like, not good for you. One
Speaker 3: kidney and that's Franciers kidney.
Speaker 2: So basically, by telling everyone she'd had a kidney transplant,
Speaker 2: she made her health everybody else's business, and now everybody
Speaker 2: has a lot of opinions about what she should shouldn't
Speaker 2: be doing with what's her name is kidney.
Speaker 3: Because remember she had that documentary years ago, didn't even
Speaker 3: mention Francier who gave her her kidney. And then in
Speaker 3: it as well, she had a line where she said,
Speaker 3: I've only got one friend in the industry, and it's
Speaker 3: Taylor Swift. Francier commented on that and was like interesting,
Speaker 3: dot dot dot, and then deleted.
Speaker 2: It is Francier as big as Taylor Swift.
Speaker 3: No, but she is in the industry right. Actually, I
Speaker 3: need to get this on the record too. Francier, giver
Speaker 3: of the kidney, reportedly not invited. What does it take
Speaker 3: to get a wedding invite? Polly? Do we have to
Speaker 3: be more secretive about our bad habits when we're vaping
Speaker 3: into someone else's kidney.
Speaker 2: I'm not very good at biology.
Speaker 3: I googled it.
Speaker 2: I'm vaping into a kidney.
Speaker 3: You're vaping kidney something something not good for the kidney.
Speaker 3: Alcohol probably worse. But she's only got one now, and
Speaker 3: so does Francis.
Speaker 2: This is a cautionary tale about sharing too much, you
Speaker 2: know how, in a different parallel universe, every contestant on
Speaker 2: the voice, every person, no master chef, they have to
Speaker 2: have the story right. And when you're earlier in your career,
Speaker 2: and when, certainly when you're Selena Gomez and you're like
Speaker 2: transitioning from Disney Star into lots of other things and
Speaker 2: you're going through something really serious like needing a kidney transplant,
Speaker 2: might seem like going public with it is a good idea.
Speaker 3: And she had to postpone work things. She disappeared from
Speaker 3: Instagram for a while, so she sort of did owe
Speaker 3: her fans.
Speaker 2: Otherwise the rumors would have been we know exactly what
Speaker 2: they would have been, drug abusere no eating disorders, all
Speaker 2: those things that we definitely think that young stars are
Speaker 2: getting up to. But the problem is is that, yeah,
Speaker 2: now she has just ignited the whole Internet, and we
Speaker 2: know that there is nothing that social media likes more
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five than a sleuth. Because I've watched
Speaker 2: this video several times and you have to look very
Speaker 2: closely to see the vape like that's a very because
Speaker 2: very soon she realizes and she just turns her hand
Speaker 2: to cover it in her hand.
Speaker 3: You spotted it, they did.
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't until they pointed it out. But everybody
Speaker 2: loves to sleuth, and then everybody loves to judge, and
Speaker 2: then here we are. That's something I think she should do.
Speaker 2: What she wants her kidney now, it's like you gave
Speaker 2: it to me, Now it's mine.
Speaker 3: The story we really want to tell is about the
Speaker 3: entitlement of celebrities, and people quite love the idea that
Speaker 3: Selena Goman is one of the most famous women in
Speaker 3: the world. Somehow hoodwinked another woman into giving her a
Speaker 3: kidney and then dropped her the second she got it
Speaker 3: like it is the most ridiculous story that kind of
Speaker 3: does make you laugh because it brings up questions of
Speaker 3: what you owe someone and the idea that you are
Speaker 3: so entitled that you would take someone's organ and then
Speaker 3: like pillage. It is kind of ridiculous, Amelia, what do
Speaker 3: you make of it?
Speaker 1: Do you remember bad art friend?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yes, This was an.
Speaker 4: Internet phenomenon back in twenty twenty one which gets at
Speaker 4: the fact that we are all really weird about kidney donations.
Speaker 4: So what happened in this story? There were two people
Speaker 4: who were friends on Facebook but probably not really friends
Speaker 4: in real life, both women, both writers. One of them
Speaker 4: donated a kidney to a stranger and started posting a
Speaker 4: lot on Facebook about what a wonderful person she was
Speaker 4: for giving this kidney to a stranger. The other person,
Speaker 4: the other woman, would never like the posts. She never
Speaker 4: commented on the post, she never said you're a wonderful person,
Speaker 4: Well done you, And in the end this led to
Speaker 4: a confrontation between the two women where the kidney donors said,
Speaker 4: why did you never acknowledge that they did this amazing thing?
Speaker 4: And then the other woman thought that was kind of
Speaker 4: ridiculous and went on to write a very dawning story
Speaker 4: about someone who donates a kidney and then goes around
Speaker 4: asking everyone to congratulate her for doing it.
Speaker 2: Forgot about that glorious.
Speaker 4: There's a name for these people who do these extremely
Speaker 4: generous things, and that name is an extreme altruist, and
Speaker 4: people have identified that we all feel weird about extreme altruists.
Speaker 4: We should feel great about them because they're doing great
Speaker 4: things for other people, but they really make us feel bad.
Speaker 4: So people who donate kidneys and do amazing things other
Speaker 4: people often receive hostility and suspicion from people, and that's
Speaker 4: because they're making us feel bad about us about the
Speaker 4: fact that we wouldn't give our kidney unless we were
Speaker 4: going to get absolute, concrete proof that that kidney was
Speaker 4: going to a lived the rest of its life in
Speaker 4: a beautiful, fancy.
Speaker 2: Mansion and b be extremely well treated at all times
Speaker 2: green juice only.
Speaker 4: But that is not to say that those people are
Speaker 4: always above board in how they talk about what they've done.
Speaker 4: And we don't know what went on behind the scenes
Speaker 4: here between Selena and her friend who donated the kidney
Speaker 4: a lot of the times, like for instance, with that
Speaker 4: out friend. What happened was this woman who donated her
Speaker 4: kidney became objectively insufferable.
Speaker 1: She never stopped talking about it.
Speaker 4: She then told The New York Times that the reason
Speaker 4: why she gave a kidney to a stranger is because
Speaker 4: she had a very isolated childhood and she wanted to
Speaker 4: build bridges and make connections in her life, and that's
Speaker 4: why she did this extraordinary thing. But the story picked
Speaker 4: up traction because there was something really needy about her,
Speaker 4: and she kept wanting approval from people for this act.
Speaker 4: And this is speculation, but I wonder if between Selena
Speaker 4: and her friend that dynamic became unsustainable. The friend was like,
Speaker 4: you shouldn't be eating that mayonnaise covered, so you shouldn't
Speaker 4: be eating fast food. You shouldn't be drinking champagne, which
Speaker 4: there were also photos of Selena drinking champagne at her
Speaker 4: wedding too, in a coop. So maybe she just couldn't
Speaker 4: deal with this friend judging her every move.
Speaker 2: Jesse, you know more about this story maybe than anyone.
Speaker 2: There's that track in the TikTok of this. Has the
Speaker 2: kidney donating friend been talking heaps about it.
Speaker 3: No, she's kind of retreated a little bit, although.
Speaker 1: But she did write interesting on that Posty.
Speaker 3: She write interesting on that post. She unfollowed Selena Gomez
Speaker 3: and then again she said from the beginning that the
Speaker 3: doctor told her it was a donation, and when you
Speaker 3: donate a dollar, you don't walk around asking person who
Speaker 3: you gave the dollar, two for the dollar back, like
Speaker 3: she kind of understands that. But there is some interesting
Speaker 3: tidbits that she didn't interview afterwards, where she said that
Speaker 3: she had to write a will before she did it,
Speaker 3: and a social worker said, this is really emotionally difficult
Speaker 3: because when you give someone your kidney, you watch them
Speaker 3: almost get better while your body suffers because you are
Speaker 3: really ill. Yeah, she had post surgery depression. She had
Speaker 3: to adjust to all of that. She was only in
Speaker 3: her mid twenties herself.
Speaker 2: To Amelia's point about why, and obviously this is prejorative language,
Speaker 2: but why a Dona may become insufferable, one of those
Speaker 2: good reasons might be because no one seems to understand
Speaker 2: what you're going through. They just think, oh, that was
Speaker 2: a nice thing to do, Shut up about it.
Speaker 4: I wonder if she just ultimately felt like she wasn't
Speaker 4: properly compensated for it. By that, I don't mean financial compensation.
Speaker 4: It is illegal to purchase organs from people, but I
Speaker 4: mean that she feels that Selena wasn't sufficiently great full true.
Speaker 3: I think it gives way to all of these complex
Speaker 3: moral questions about what you owe someone who saves your life.
Speaker 3: Because she did save her life, and there have been
Speaker 3: moments where Selena Gomez has won an award and she
Speaker 3: stood on stage and she has said, I owe this
Speaker 3: to the woman who saved my life. But does she
Speaker 3: have to do that for the rest of her for
Speaker 3: the rest of her life and do an appreciation post
Speaker 3: scheduled every six months? Can she just kind of drop it?
Speaker 1: I do think she should have invited her to the world.
Speaker 1: You do, I do?
Speaker 4: I mean she didn't have to worry about the headcount
Speaker 4: and keeping it under a certain amount to stick to
Speaker 4: her budget.
Speaker 1: So trust her.
Speaker 2: Though, when you're a celebrity, that's a big deal, right
Speaker 2: She might think, Oh, it reminds me a little bit
Speaker 2: of watching the Kardashians once, watching a clip from them
Speaker 2: talk about their surrogates, and Chloe was asking Courtney, I
Speaker 2: think is it okay to tell the surrogate for my child,
Speaker 2: like what they should eat and that I only want
Speaker 2: them to eat organic and I want and blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: And Kin was like, yeah, absolutely, like send them the food.
Speaker 2: And then I think he said, you should tell them
Speaker 2: what TV to watch. You don't want your unborn charpe
Speaker 2: around any trashy television like.
Speaker 4: This because in the US you can pay someone to
Speaker 4: be your surrogate, whereas in Australia you cannot.
Speaker 2: And it could be in the contract. No reality TV
Speaker 2: in the house. In a moment, did Donald Trump just
Speaker 2: do something no one else could do?
Speaker 3: Andy good evening.
Speaker 2: We begin with that major breaking news tonight, A.
Speaker 1: New Dawn hopes rise upter Donald Trump broke as a
Speaker 1: momentous Middle East peace deal breaking news.
Speaker 3: President Trump has just announced on social media that Israel
Speaker 3: and Hamas signed off on the first phase of a
Speaker 3: peace agreement. US President Donald Trump has hailed the ceasefire
Speaker 3: deal as a momentous breakthrough.
Speaker 4: And I can't believe I'm saying this.
Speaker 2: I gotta give Donald Trump some props here. I have
Speaker 2: a question for Amelia about peace in the Middle East.
Speaker 2: So it has been an extraordinary and historic week. As
Speaker 2: we're recording this, we have to acknowledge there's a very
Speaker 2: long way to go to understand if the Middle East
Speaker 2: peace agreement between Israel and Hamas is going to hold,
Speaker 2: and what rebuilding a devastated Gaza might look like. But
Speaker 2: what is not in question right now is that US
Speaker 2: President Donald Trump is claiming responsibility for doing something that
Speaker 2: no one else has been able to do for two
Speaker 2: long years since the October seventh attacks, get all surviving
Speaker 2: hostages returned to Israel, more than two thousand Palestinian detainees released,
Speaker 2: and get a ceasefire deal signed. This leads me to
Speaker 2: a question that is bothering liberals everywhere Amilia. Did Donald
Speaker 2: Trump do something good?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 4: Yes, Look, I just don't know how anyone could see
Speaker 4: the emotional scenes this week of Israeli hostages being returned
Speaker 4: to their families, Palestinians who have been in Israeli jails
Speaker 4: coming home, a ceasefire after some seven hundred and thirty days.
Speaker 4: I don't know anyone who could look at that and
Speaker 4: answer that question any other way.
Speaker 1: Holly. He did do something good.
Speaker 4: And as you say, there are so many issues to
Speaker 4: be resolved and which may never be resolved, and we're
Speaker 4: already seeing a lot of backsliding and complications. But this
Speaker 4: is the Trump way, make the deal and then let
Speaker 4: other people sort out the details.
Speaker 2: So why is he the guy who could get this done?
Speaker 2: So is this a case of well, it kind of
Speaker 2: had to happen sometime and Trump with the man in
Speaker 2: the chair, or is this a case of Trump exceptionalism.
Speaker 1: There's a thing called madman theory. Have you heard of this?
Speaker 4: No, It comes from political science, and it was actually
Speaker 4: invented by another very polarizing US president, Richard Nixon, And
Speaker 4: basically it goes that if everyone thinks you're mad, they
Speaker 4: kind of have to go along with what you want
Speaker 4: them to do. And this came up for Nixon because
Speaker 4: during the Cold War, when both the Soviet Union and
Speaker 4: the United States had their fingers on the nuclear button
Speaker 4: and they were threatening each other with total annihilation, the
Speaker 4: Soviet Union didn't want to do anything to upset Richard
Speaker 4: Nixon because he was just crazy enough seeming that they
Speaker 4: thought he might in fact blow up the entire world
Speaker 4: if they upset him.
Speaker 3: So it's fear and not knowing what they're going to
Speaker 3: do next.
Speaker 4: It's fear and the unpredictability of these people, And I
Speaker 4: think that's why Joe Biden couldn't get this done, but
Speaker 4: Donald Trump did so. When Trump said he was going
Speaker 4: to destroy Hamas unless they agreed to this deal, and
Speaker 4: when he told Netanya, who, hey, you better really follow
Speaker 4: through on this cease fire and not break it, both
Speaker 4: sides realized they kind of had to go along with it,
Speaker 4: because when Donald Trump says he's going to destroy you,
Speaker 4: he might just actually destroy you.
Speaker 2: So he might have actually done what no other president
Speaker 2: would do and withdraw support for Israel. So Biden has
Speaker 2: congratulated Trump.
Speaker 3: So Bill Clinton, Yeah, everyone, Yeah.
Speaker 2: So a lot of h I mean, I can imagine
Speaker 2: that that was quite difficult for Biden to do given
Speaker 2: their history. Do you think that liberals, and when I
Speaker 2: say liberals, I mean liberals, are worried that acknowledging that
Speaker 2: he did make an audacious deal to get this done
Speaker 2: helps Trump at home? Do you think they're worried about that?
Speaker 1: I think it absolutely helps Trump. If you read the
Speaker 1: US press this week, there's.
Speaker 4: Been a lot of sort of American exceptionalism during the rounds,
Speaker 4: a lot of only the US could have pulled this off.
Speaker 4: A lot of pride, even coming from places that you
Speaker 4: might not expect to be celebrating Donald Trump. There's been
Speaker 4: this kind of surge of national sentiment that the US
Speaker 4: helped well made this piece happen.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's absolutely going to help him.
Speaker 3: I've seen some political analysts say that Trump, while some
Speaker 3: would suggest that he's kind of this war hungry, chaotic man,
Speaker 3: that he actually likes peace. He wants peace, and he
Speaker 3: wants to follow through on that. Is that true?
Speaker 1: It's true.
Speaker 4: That's why he has been talking about how the award
Speaker 4: he wants more than anything is a Nobel Peace Prize.
Speaker 4: Now he didn't get it last week, but I'm sure
Speaker 4: he's going to be lobbying very aggressively for it next year.
Speaker 4: Back in the eighties, when he was this New York businessman,
Speaker 4: was known for his pension for gold toilets. Even back
Speaker 4: then he talked about his fears about nuclear war. So
Speaker 4: this has been a longstanding obsession of his with this
Speaker 4: notion of peace and being a peace maker.
Speaker 3: Do you think he's actually a contender for that award
Speaker 3: at this point?
Speaker 1: I think he is.
Speaker 4: He's been able to do what no other president in
Speaker 4: recent US history has done.
Speaker 2: Is it fair for those people who are like wrestling
Speaker 2: with the complexity of this the whole, Like, but I
Speaker 2: can't stand what he's doing at home. I can't stand
Speaker 2: the ice raids. I can't stand. It's not like admitting
Speaker 2: that Trump did pull this off means that you have
Speaker 2: to sign off and all that. Right, we can remember that,
Speaker 2: like duality exists, and I don't think that saying this
Speaker 2: was a piece of I don't know if diplomacy is
Speaker 2: the right word with him, but this was a piece
Speaker 2: of deal making that will go down in history. And obviously,
Speaker 2: depending on as we've already said on the complexities of
Speaker 2: what happened next, it's still a historical moment. It doesn't
Speaker 2: mean you have to like suddenly wear a Maga hat.
Speaker 4: Right, No, I didn't bring mine today. No, it absolutely
Speaker 4: doesn't mean that. But I do think that it's been
Speaker 4: a bit of an embarrassing moment for a lot of
Speaker 4: small l liberal commentators and analysts because another element of
Speaker 4: this is, remember Jared Kushna, Avanka Trump's husband, who was
Speaker 4: very involved in foreign policy in Trump's first administration. He
Speaker 4: was working behind the scenes on this too, and so
Speaker 4: people are having to think, well, look, Trump does lean
Speaker 4: on these people who we kind of make fun of
Speaker 4: or who we don't think are up to the task,
Speaker 4: like Jared, But Jared was involved in doing this deal,
Speaker 4: as you say, And no matter what happens next now,
Speaker 4: we certainly hope that the cease fire holds.
Speaker 1: We certainly hope that there can.
Speaker 4: Be a plan for rebuilding Gaza, which really does as
Speaker 4: you say, Holly Lion ruins. But no matter what happens next,
Speaker 4: the achievement of getting Hamas and Netanyahu to agree on
Speaker 4: this stands alone.
Speaker 3: It's very TRUMPI in to claim all the credit, which
Speaker 3: he is absolutely done. I think someone said this was
Speaker 3: one of the biggest things that had happened in fifty years,
Speaker 3: and he was like one hundred, like, that's very Trump.
Speaker 3: Was it actually him as an individual man, or was
Speaker 3: it a bunch of people behind the scenes and he's
Speaker 3: just standing up wanting to be the poster boy.
Speaker 4: There were a bunch of people behind the scenes. Dearrek
Speaker 4: Kushner was one of them. Steve Wikoff, who is a
Speaker 4: deal maker from Trump's New York real estate days, was
Speaker 4: also very involved. But I think, ultimately, and it brings
Speaker 4: me no particular joy to say this. It was Trump
Speaker 4: who got the deal over the line. So Biden had
Speaker 4: tried very hard to make this happen. He had had
Speaker 4: his Secretary of State traveling around the world dozens of
Speaker 4: times trying to get these people to the negotiating table,
Speaker 4: and it didn't work.
Speaker 1: I think that this madman.
Speaker 4: Theory explains to us why Trump has this unique ability
Speaker 4: to get people to do.
Speaker 1: What he wants.
Speaker 4: And there are so many things that have to happen
Speaker 4: at this point. And of course, while this is a
Speaker 4: moment of triumph for Donald Trump and a moment of
Speaker 4: celebration for the region and the world world, we have
Speaker 4: to acknowledge that seventy thousand people or thereabouts have died
Speaker 4: in this conflict.
Speaker 1: That's why it's so important that the ceasefire has to hold.
Speaker 2: In a moment, I am going to share the four
Speaker 2: lines I learned this week to get you through any
Speaker 2: stressful situation.
Speaker 3: Want unlimited out loud access, We drop episodes every Tuesday
Speaker 3: and Thursday exclusively for Mum and MAYA subscribers. Follow the
Speaker 3: link in the show notes to get us in your
Speaker 3: ears five days a week. And a huge thank you
Speaker 3: to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 4: A comedian hurt my feelings recently. Oh can I tell
Speaker 4: you what happened?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 4: So my greatest fear in life is audience participation. Oh
Speaker 4: me too, greatest fear? What is it?
Speaker 3: Because we're all happy to stand on stage, but I
Speaker 3: would never ask a question and I would never put
Speaker 3: my hand up to go. I'll go on stage and
Speaker 3: be a volunteer. The bravery involved in that.
Speaker 2: I know who would?
Speaker 1: Yes, friend, Oh, we love it.
Speaker 2: He goes to any comedy show and stuff pretty much
Speaker 2: for the T shirt like pick me anyway. But I
Speaker 2: can acknowledge that most of us.
Speaker 4: We're with you. It's why I'm scared of stand up comedy.
Speaker 4: But my partner enjoys a bit of stand up comedy.
Speaker 4: And he recently was in Los Angeles and he went
Speaker 4: to the world Famous Comedy Store in West Hollywood, which
Speaker 4: is in fact world famous and everyone who's everyone has
Speaker 4: performed there. On the night he was there, Mark Maron
Speaker 4: and Ali Wong did set no Bingie Wow, and then
Speaker 4: at the very end of the night, a man named
Speaker 4: Don Barris stood up. He is Jimmy Kimmel's warm up
Speaker 4: act on his TV show, but I'd never heard of
Speaker 4: him before. He stood up, was doing a bit of
Speaker 4: crowd work, and he pointed at my partner and said,
Speaker 4: what was it like to wake up this morning and
Speaker 4: think I'm going to put on the ugliest shirt in
Speaker 4: the world. So I found out about this not because
Speaker 4: he called me in tears immediately, which is what.
Speaker 1: I would have done. I found out about it weeks
Speaker 1: later when we were getting.
Speaker 4: Dressed in the morning and he turns to me and says,
Speaker 4: what do you think of the shirt? And I said, oh, well,
Speaker 4: I like it. I gave it to you and he said, well,
Speaker 4: a comedian didn't like it, and then told me the story.
Speaker 2: So the comedian dissed you because you chose the shirt.
Speaker 4: This is why he had my feelings. I was devastated.
Speaker 4: I'm not going to lie. I'm still carrying it around
Speaker 4: a little bit.
Speaker 1: Sorry. You have to explain to us what the shirt
Speaker 1: looks like. I mean, I think it's a nice show.
Speaker 4: It's one of those like fake rugby jerseys, so it's
Speaker 4: not like got a name of a team on it,
Speaker 4: but it's.
Speaker 3: Very commendance like. It's got a color exactly white color.
Speaker 1: A white collar.
Speaker 4: It's got a sort of I thought it was a
Speaker 4: very Iberian influenced color scheme of reds and vibrant yellows,
Speaker 4: which I thought would really play off my partner's olive
Speaker 4: skin very nicely.
Speaker 1: And look, I know.
Speaker 4: I'm not great at clothes. I don't pretend to be
Speaker 4: great at clothes. But I had bought that as an
Speaker 4: act of love, as a gesture of love, and I
Speaker 4: thought it through.
Speaker 1: And then to have this comedian shit on my clothing choices,
Speaker 1: it's stung.
Speaker 2: That is so funny.
Speaker 3: Can I ask if Johnny your husbands has he worn
Speaker 3: it since?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: The point of him bringing it up with me was
Speaker 4: not that it bothered him that the comedian said this.
Speaker 4: The point of him bringing it up was that it
Speaker 4: was genuinely confusing to him that a shirt that he
Speaker 4: quite liked was being described as ugly, Because to him,
Speaker 4: with the confidence of a man who enjoys crowd work,
Speaker 4: he just thought, oh, that's confusing.
Speaker 1: I like this shirt. That comedian doesn't like it.
Speaker 2: The thing is so great about that story, and maybe
Speaker 2: let's be generous. Maybe the comedian just does that gag
Speaker 2: every night and just picks anyone and he's not.
Speaker 1: Really, but he's still got to pick someone.
Speaker 2: And you don't want to be that person. But as
Speaker 2: you said, how you would react, and I would represent
Speaker 2: for most women I know, they could never They could
Speaker 2: never wear that shirt again, like that shit has now
Speaker 2: been tainted. What other people think of your clothes. It
Speaker 2: says something about your psyche or your past everything.
Speaker 4: When he asked me what I thought of the shirt,
Speaker 4: and I said I like it, and then he told
Speaker 4: me the story.
Speaker 1: He then proceeded to wear the shirt that day.
Speaker 3: I think I've got a bit of Johnny. I reckon that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I reckon. If I looked at it and went I
Speaker 3: like it, then I think I'd put on the shirt
Speaker 3: and go about my day.
Speaker 2: Because I just tell you often that she doesn't like
Speaker 2: your clothes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just go, No one's really thinking that much
Speaker 3: about me, And if it's making me feel good, then
Speaker 3: I don't really care.
Speaker 4: Mia once told me she didn't like my shirt. It
Speaker 4: was a short sleeved linen shirt and she said that
Speaker 4: it wasn't a good look on me.
Speaker 1: She said that with love, not like this awful comedian.
Speaker 1: But I never wore the shirt.
Speaker 2: Again, and I drove that shirt immediately. The Vinies actually
Speaker 2: exactly what I gave it to them and said, set
Speaker 2: this free. Don't tell anyone what me a freaking said
Speaker 2: about it? Is it okay to take the piss out
Speaker 2: of people's clothes?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 4: Well, that's what I wanted to bring to you today
Speaker 4: because there was an article that Sit Harold this morning
Speaker 4: by Chris Harrison. It was titled if you can call
Speaker 4: me bald, I can call you fat.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 4: He makes the point that in our very PC world,
Speaker 4: as he puts it, baldness is still deemed acceptable for ridicule.
Speaker 4: And he says, why is that Because it's not like
Speaker 4: men can control.
Speaker 1: Whether or not they're bald.
Speaker 4: And I wonder if that's the issue, Because you can
Speaker 4: control what clothes you put on, you cannot control what
Speaker 4: is happening on.
Speaker 1: Your head with your hair. No bus is that the line?
Speaker 2: That's true? However? And I know how really painful hair
Speaker 2: loss is for men and women, but more common for
Speaker 2: men and a more common side effective eating. And it
Speaker 2: can be devastating, you know, it can be absolutely devastating
Speaker 2: to confidence. But it's true that that could be a line.
Speaker 2: But then in this day and age, and he goes
Speaker 2: into this, Chris Harrison in this article, Yes, the baldness
Speaker 2: is happening, but you do have choices about what to
Speaker 2: do about it, just as you could say for all
Speaker 2: of us. But women get this pressure more. The wrinkles
Speaker 2: are happening, but you now have a whole lot of
Speaker 2: choices about what to do about them, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. So there makes feel so much worse. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: there's still judgment attached then, because it's kind of like, oh,
Speaker 2: you don't see it because choice, buddy, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 3: And it's like, maybe I should tell you so that
Speaker 3: you know that there are treatments that would fix.
Speaker 2: Your eye exactly like your wrinkles. You don't have to
Speaker 2: wear those on your face. Have you heard about injections?
Speaker 3: There's this social irritation with people who So the big
Speaker 3: one of the last week or two has been Rafael Nadal,
Speaker 3: who is the tennis player who has been experiencing hair
Speaker 3: loss since his twenties. Very handsome and early in his
Speaker 3: career he had long, luscious, thick hair.
Speaker 1: He would look lovely in the rugby shirt but oh.
Speaker 3: My goodness, it was made for him. And just recently
Speaker 3: and images come up of him posing with a fan
Speaker 3: smiling and his hair loss. People have commented and just said,
Speaker 3: you need to get to Turkey. You need to get
Speaker 3: those hair transplants. Like people are being so mean to him.
Speaker 3: The irony is that reportedly he has had two treatments
Speaker 3: to try and salvage what hair he has left. But
Speaker 3: people's irritation is like, how can you be so rich
Speaker 3: and not have this sorted? And if you're not going
Speaker 3: to sort it, then shave your head.
Speaker 2: I don't want to look at it.
Speaker 3: I don't want to look at it.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because when I first read this article, I
Speaker 2: thought I would never take the piss out of a
Speaker 2: boarding man. I thought that's a terrible thing to do
Speaker 2: it same and then I thought about things I may
Speaker 2: have said about Princess William and Harry over the years,
Speaker 2: particularly William increasingly Harry, that are ungenerous because to the
Speaker 2: point Chris Harrison is making in this article, there is
Speaker 2: pleasure somehow in mocking a man. Prince William has been
Speaker 2: copying shit about the fact that his hairline has been
Speaker 2: receiving for a very long time. I think if Prince
Speaker 2: Harry makes a joke about it in his book, I
Speaker 2: was that to say, yeah, I mean he should he
Speaker 2: wouldn't be laughing now because he's definitely facing some of
Speaker 2: the same stuff. But he made a joke about it
Speaker 2: in his book. Is there's something that's kind of open
Speaker 2: and a little bit suddenly, Do I want to say
Speaker 2: I'm masculating? And I definitely, when I think about it,
Speaker 2: probably have made those jokes about Prince William or a
Speaker 2: rich and powerful man who's losing his hair, almost like
Speaker 2: and I am not proud of this, almost like ha,
Speaker 2: you've got it all, but not that, And that is
Speaker 2: ugly right in me, I mean, not in them. I
Speaker 2: don't mean that they're ugly. Oh my god.
Speaker 4: Chris Harrison writes, people assume making fun of the ball
Speaker 4: guy is harmless, a punchline with no real victim.
Speaker 1: That's true, by the way. I think that's absolutely true.
Speaker 1: They think baldness invites less emotional vulnerability than say a
Speaker 1: joke about weight or appearance, But such assumptions ignore the
Speaker 1: deep personal impact hair loss can have on self esteem, identity,
Speaker 1: and even perceptions of aging or viriality.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's totally a thing. However, I think
Speaker 3: that the comparison to weight is imperfect. Yeah, I think
Speaker 3: that when it comes to men, and baldness. I think
Speaker 3: most people know you wouldn't comment.
Speaker 2: I hope that well, you know, I bet you that
Speaker 2: men get a lot of why don't you just shave
Speaker 2: it like a lot of masquerading as you know, in
Speaker 2: the same way that they might say you can do
Speaker 2: something about those wrinkles, Holly, they might say, you know,
Speaker 2: you should just shave it off. People have very strong
Speaker 2: feelings about that, don't they like, yeah, are you holding
Speaker 2: onto that hair?
Speaker 3: I think the difference is if you looked in most boardrooms,
Speaker 3: if you looked at politicians, if you looked at who
Speaker 3: is currently leading our country, you'd find examples of men
Speaker 3: who don't have a lot of hair.
Speaker 2: So you think it's punching off.
Speaker 4: I think it's.
Speaker 3: Power, and I think that that's why it feels different.
Speaker 3: That doesn't mean it's so kay. And I also thought
Speaker 3: that there are heaps of examples Vin Diesel, Andre Agassi,
Speaker 3: Joe Rogan. He's one of the most powerful masculine coded
Speaker 3: men in our culture and he doesn't have any hair.
Speaker 3: But I also do see how it can be colored.
Speaker 3: Is almost the buffoon, and that's what so Homer Simpson
Speaker 3: was like the guy with that it's like the suburban dad.
Speaker 3: And I understand that if you have hang ups about aging,
Speaker 3: that can be really confronting to kind of look in
Speaker 3: the mirror and go, oh, my goodness, I'm looking like
Speaker 3: my father.
Speaker 4: Well, and you're making me realize a bit of a
Speaker 4: phenomenon that I've noticed, which is when you're in a
Speaker 4: group with a man who is bald, more often than not,
Speaker 4: he will make a joke drawing attention to it. You've
Speaker 4: been in a moment like.
Speaker 2: Death, but that's quite a female defensively where we'll do that.
Speaker 2: You know, will be like, oh, I know I look
Speaker 2: like this today.
Speaker 1: Well, now I understand why they're doing it.
Speaker 4: They're doing it because it is actually hurtful to have
Speaker 4: those jokes made, and yet they're expected to shrug them off.
Speaker 4: So in an effort to gain control over the situation
Speaker 4: and call it out before anyone else does, that's.
Speaker 1: Why they do it.
Speaker 2: What about amongst friends, We've talked about this before, that
Speaker 2: that joshing and taking the peace culture, which is enormous
Speaker 2: among certainly Australian men, I would say definitely englishmen too.
Speaker 2: The sign of love is how much shit you give
Speaker 2: each other, and it may sting but that's part of it.
Speaker 2: And we've said that women we have a slightly more
Speaker 2: complicated situation with that because we often know that it's pointed,
Speaker 2: or we know that our worth and verticomas is more
Speaker 2: tied to our appearance, so it hurts more. But is
Speaker 2: it okay within a friend group to take the piss
Speaker 2: out of each other about aging?
Speaker 3: I still wouldn't my closest male friends. There is no
Speaker 3: way I would make a joke about them losing their hair.
Speaker 3: It is too sensitive. I can tell from a mile away.
Speaker 3: And maybe it's my age group as well, that the
Speaker 3: men that I know are in the early stages of it.
Speaker 3: And this guy says balding is a lot harder than
Speaker 3: being bald, like, that's a really awkward process. I think
Speaker 3: any comment about someone's appearance that makes them feel conspicuous
Speaker 3: and visible, they can joke about it. You can't. I
Speaker 3: can tell anything I want about how big I am,
Speaker 3: but I just reckon. You don't know how that person
Speaker 3: is today. You don't know how many comments they've got.
Speaker 3: I just wouldn't. I think that's a good rule. And
Speaker 3: this guy was saying he's in meetings people are joking
Speaker 3: about Oh all the lights went off, like something about
Speaker 3: his bald head and solar panels. Like in the workplace,
Speaker 3: you just go drop it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I wonder if the female equivalent is gray hair,
Speaker 4: because they're both like visible signs of aging on top
Speaker 4: of your head, and you would never casually point out
Speaker 4: that a woman had gray hair, even a friend of yours.
Speaker 4: I don't think. I think we kind of are agreeing
Speaker 4: that we're not talking about that. But on the punching
Speaker 4: up thing. Carolina Donna, who who hosts Sentimental Garbage that podcast.
Speaker 4: She was talking in the context of Taylor Swift's new album,
Speaker 4: and Taylor Swift has been criticized for punching down in
Speaker 4: a song that people have interpreted as a disk track
Speaker 4: targeting Charlie XCX. She says she doesn't believe in the
Speaker 4: concept of punching down or punching up in humor. She
Speaker 4: says that the only real test of whether a joke
Speaker 4: is okay is if it lands if it's funny. So
Speaker 4: I just want to ask in this case.
Speaker 2: I don't buy that because the question of if it's funny.
Speaker 3: Can be fun everyone in the room except the person who.
Speaker 2: Who was a very subjective question, you know, everyone else
Speaker 2: might think that song is hilarious about Charlie XX, or
Speaker 2: that the ball joke is great. But if he doesn't, yeah.
Speaker 4: I guess bringing it back to the shirt incident that
Speaker 4: inspired this, yes, that's not a very funny joke.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's funny. I really cringe at crowd
Speaker 3: work for that exact reason that I just think. I
Speaker 3: do not find anything that embarrasses someone funny. And maybe
Speaker 3: it's a female thing that I just go. I've had
Speaker 3: enough experiences where I've felt mocked or made fun of,
Speaker 3: in conspicuous or conspicuous, and I just want to be invisible.
Speaker 2: Or the reason they do it now and obviously comedians
Speaker 2: have always done it, but the reason they do it
Speaker 2: now and it is because it's the bit you can
Speaker 2: put on social because you've got your set, and your
Speaker 2: sets the same every night mostly right. So if I
Speaker 2: go and see Mark Maron, he's worked out his hour
Speaker 2: and he can't put that on social because then you're
Speaker 2: not going to go and see him. But you can
Speaker 2: put the crowd work bit on social over and over again.
Speaker 2: So now it's become even more important and they've got
Speaker 2: to walk that line.
Speaker 4: We're going to pour a picture of the shirt that
Speaker 4: I purchased for Johnny on Instagram and you can tell
Speaker 4: me if I screwed up or not.
Speaker 2: I want to leave us with a bit of wisdom
Speaker 2: today and it's not my wisdom, but I've stolen it
Speaker 2: and I am implementing it and I am handing it
Speaker 2: around like Lolly's. Would you like to hear it?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: So, Amelia, I don't know if you mind me saying this.
Speaker 2: So you had something big and important to do last night.
Speaker 1: I did.
Speaker 2: What did you do?
Speaker 1: Test? I was one of the Boyer lecturers.
Speaker 4: That's an ABC lecture series about the future of Australia.
Speaker 2: That's no big deal, just the future of Australia with
Speaker 2: like all the really big brains.
Speaker 3: So where was it?
Speaker 4: It was at the ABC studios. Johnny showed up in
Speaker 4: a polo shirt, but not the I was relieved by
Speaker 4: because otherwise Julia Baird, who was hosting.
Speaker 2: Anyway, we were in the afternoon. Melia was prepping and
Speaker 2: while I was sitting next to her, she was nervous.
Speaker 2: We talked about being nervous and I immediately had to
Speaker 2: pull out my phone to share something with it. I
Speaker 2: had one of those moment's recently when you're listening to
Speaker 2: something and I had to pull the car over to
Speaker 2: make a note on my notes app. It was on
Speaker 2: a podcast called wild Card, which is an interview show
Speaker 2: hosted by this NPR journalist American called Rachel Martin, and
Speaker 2: basically it's like you pull random cards and you answer
Speaker 2: the questions on it. This one was with Selene Song.
Speaker 2: She is a movie director. She is amazing. She made
Speaker 2: Past Lives, which is one of my favorite films. She
Speaker 2: also made Materialists, which is not but still she's very talented.
Speaker 2: The last card that she pulled, the question was what
Speaker 2: truth guides your life more than any other? And what
Speaker 2: Selene's song then shared was like a mantra, like these
Speaker 2: four lines that she herself had learnt from her professor
Speaker 2: at Columbia or something like another big important person. Selene's
Speaker 2: song describes them as the four rules for anything we
Speaker 2: have to do as humans, Right, Okay, I had to
Speaker 2: immediately put them down. So you're turning up to a
Speaker 2: thing like a conversation with someone that you know is
Speaker 2: going to be difficult, a meeting that might be confrontational,
Speaker 2: something for work, boy lecture, or something more relatable in
Speaker 2: your life that makes you nervous and worried, arguing with
Speaker 2: your landlord, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: The White Merchant.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, Number one show up Now I think
Speaker 2: what they mean by show up we all know in
Speaker 2: common parlance now that means be present, be there right.
Speaker 2: Number two, pay attention. This is my favorite. Number three
Speaker 2: speak from the heart, and number four the hardest, Have
Speaker 2: no expectations.
Speaker 1: So I like that.
Speaker 2: I loved it so much because whenever you have to
Speaker 2: do anything that you're nervous about, or you've been thinking
Speaker 2: about a lot, or that activates you in any way
Speaker 2: in your mind, you always play out and this is
Speaker 2: how it's going to go, and this is the outcome
Speaker 2: I want, and all those things. And if you get
Speaker 2: that outcome, you feel like you've been successful, and if
Speaker 2: you don't get that outcome, you feel like you've failed.
Speaker 2: And in reality, it's very unlikely that you affected whether
Speaker 2: or not you've got that outcome. A whole lot of
Speaker 2: different things will have affected that. So I love have
Speaker 2: no expectations, although it's not a question the hardest one,
Speaker 2: and I love pay attention because I think everything from
Speaker 2: sitting down to do this show every day to having
Speaker 2: a difficult conversation with my teenager. If I'm listening and
Speaker 2: I'm really there and I'm paying attention and I'm not
Speaker 2: thinking in my head, oh that thing I just said,
Speaker 2: I shouldn't have said that thing, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: then I always the outcome is better every single time.
Speaker 4: But every one of these was so helpful to me
Speaker 4: because just take the first one. Show up sounds obvious,
Speaker 4: but what that speaks to is this was a very
Speaker 4: intimidating thing for me to do, and I had to
Speaker 4: work through, uncharacteristically for me, some imposter syndrome around it.
Speaker 1: But show up says you just got to show up.
Speaker 4: Yeah, someone's going to show up, may as well be you,
Speaker 4: And I found that really powerful as well.
Speaker 2: Speak from the hearts quite hard because I think that
Speaker 2: that's a vulnerability, you know. I like to sort of
Speaker 2: say this is how I'm feeling, I guess or whatever
Speaker 2: it is. But that also just means be authentic, really know.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I got a tip once from a performance psychologist which
Speaker 3: was when you feel your brain start to wonder, which
Speaker 3: happens whether you're on stage, sometimes when you're doing a speech,
Speaker 3: sometimes when you're in an important meeting like focusing on
Speaker 3: tiny little things like if I'm speaking to you holy
Speaker 3: like even if you just have to go look at
Speaker 3: their eyebrows, look at their blood, like take yourself back
Speaker 3: into the moment in kind of like minuscule details that
Speaker 3: should like reorient you to that moment. But little mantras
Speaker 3: they make such a difference, don't they do.
Speaker 2: So now this is on notes up in my phone.
Speaker 2: I welcome you put on notes up in your phone
Speaker 2: if you want it.
Speaker 1: It was really helpful.
Speaker 2: And I'm gonna see if it's going to change my life.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm always looking for them that's going to
Speaker 2: change my life.
Speaker 3: Has changed my life. And I say, I felt nerves
Speaker 3: the other day and I said, my mantrat, nerves went
Speaker 3: excellence over perfection. I say that all the time myself.
Speaker 2: That's it for today's show. A massive thank you to
Speaker 2: all of you out louders for listening or maybe even
Speaker 2: watching us on YouTube. Remember you can always do that.
Speaker 2: And thank you, of course to our amazing team for
Speaker 2: putting it together. Before we go, I want to tell
Speaker 2: you about something else on tomorrow's subset. We are doing
Speaker 2: this thing well, jesse M and I all answer the question,
Speaker 2: what did you do yesterday, and I promise you in
Speaker 2: the episode we explain why I'm asking this question, but
Speaker 2: quite a lot of you have already answered it because
Speaker 2: yesterday I jumped in the outluders Facebook group, which is
Speaker 2: where we have conversations about the show, and I asked
Speaker 2: the outlouders to tell me in three sentences is what
Speaker 2: they did yesterday? And oh my god, the outlouders are
Speaker 2: doing such interesting things. Not all of them. I mean,
Speaker 2: some people are on holiday and they're having a great
Speaker 2: time and that's nice, but also where they are what
Speaker 2: they're doing. You have to go and look at this thread.
Speaker 2: It is so great.
Speaker 1: That's such a great prompt.
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Speaker 4: going to be asking how much would you pay for
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Speaker 2: Jesse, you need two baby names? How much you need
Speaker 2: to pay for them?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I'm just going with my f one,
Speaker 3: Blando and Lewis there we go.
Speaker 2: L goodbye, out loud eye. Shout out to any Mamma
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Speaker 2: very best way to do it. There's a link in
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