1 00:00:05,646 --> 00:00:12,645 Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma mea Podcast. Hi, it's Cassanne Lukage here, 2 00:00:12,846 --> 00:00:15,726 Speaker 1: host of Diary of a Birth, and this summer we've 3 00:00:15,806 --> 00:00:18,965 Speaker 1: curated your delivery room playlist to bring you even more 4 00:00:19,046 --> 00:00:22,686 Speaker 1: unmissable birth stories. This summer, we're bringing you our favorite 5 00:00:22,726 --> 00:00:25,766 Speaker 1: episodes of Diary of a Birth right here in your feet. 6 00:00:26,206 --> 00:00:29,246 Speaker 1: That's your holiday listening sorded. And if you're looking for 7 00:00:29,286 --> 00:00:32,605 Speaker 1: more to listen to, every Muma mea podcast is curating 8 00:00:32,646 --> 00:00:36,326 Speaker 1: your summer listening right across our network. From pop culture 9 00:00:36,366 --> 00:00:40,326 Speaker 1: to beauty to powerful interviews, there's something for everyone. Check 10 00:00:40,366 --> 00:00:46,446 Speaker 1: out the link in the show notes. Hi, I'm Cassanne 11 00:00:46,525 --> 00:00:50,806 Speaker 1: Lukig and this is Diary of a Birth. I'm fascinated 12 00:00:50,885 --> 00:00:55,326 Speaker 1: by identical twins. One embryo splits to create a perfect 13 00:00:55,366 --> 00:00:59,686 Speaker 1: copy two babies genetically the same, but with their own 14 00:00:59,726 --> 00:01:05,006 Speaker 1: identities and personalities. Occurring in roughly one in two hundred 15 00:01:05,006 --> 00:01:09,846 Speaker 1: and fifty in Australia. They're relatively rare, but let's be real. 16 00:01:10,486 --> 00:01:13,566 Speaker 1: Any parent of multiples will tell you how challenging it is. 17 00:01:14,206 --> 00:01:18,406 Speaker 1: The nappies, the feeding, and let's not forget the actual pregnancy. 18 00:01:22,046 --> 00:01:25,766 Speaker 1: After undergoing IVF with their first baby. Today's mum was 19 00:01:25,846 --> 00:01:29,206 Speaker 1: left with one viable embryo, and when it came time 20 00:01:29,246 --> 00:01:31,886 Speaker 1: to add to their family two years later, she and 21 00:01:31,926 --> 00:01:35,886 Speaker 1: her partner had one last shot. Fortunately for them, the 22 00:01:35,926 --> 00:01:39,965 Speaker 1: embryo took they weren't expecting was a high risk pregnancy 23 00:01:40,326 --> 00:01:44,006 Speaker 1: with identical twins. So let's meet today's mum. 24 00:01:44,366 --> 00:01:46,926 Speaker 2: Hello, my name is Laura and this is the diary 25 00:01:47,006 --> 00:01:53,446 Speaker 2: of my birth with Alex and Riley. 26 00:01:53,726 --> 00:01:56,766 Speaker 1: So, Laura, can you tell us a little bit about 27 00:01:56,886 --> 00:02:00,046 Speaker 1: your life before you fell pregnant with your twins? 28 00:02:00,566 --> 00:02:05,846 Speaker 2: Life was pretty busy and I guess interesting. My husband 29 00:02:05,886 --> 00:02:08,606 Speaker 2: and I were both working, working full time. There was 30 00:02:08,686 --> 00:02:11,886 Speaker 2: lots of travel, lots of holidays, lots of fun times, 31 00:02:12,246 --> 00:02:14,766 Speaker 2: lots of going out and eating out. Yeah, we were 32 00:02:14,805 --> 00:02:18,726 Speaker 2: also renovating our house, planning and starting to renovate, meeting 33 00:02:18,726 --> 00:02:22,726 Speaker 2: with the architects, the builders, and yeah, life was busy, 34 00:02:22,846 --> 00:02:25,486 Speaker 2: just traveling. I work in Melbourne but traveled to Sydney 35 00:02:25,525 --> 00:02:28,046 Speaker 2: quite a bit and we were able to get to 36 00:02:28,085 --> 00:02:32,326 Speaker 2: Greece of what where my husband's family is from. And yeah, 37 00:02:32,365 --> 00:02:34,166 Speaker 2: it was good. We had time. We had a lot 38 00:02:34,166 --> 00:02:35,206 Speaker 2: of time for four kids. 39 00:02:35,965 --> 00:02:39,286 Speaker 1: You had a baby before you fell pregnant with the twins. 40 00:02:39,965 --> 00:02:43,206 Speaker 1: Now I know that you went through IVF with both 41 00:02:43,206 --> 00:02:45,285 Speaker 1: of your babies. Can you tell us a little bit 42 00:02:45,326 --> 00:02:49,686 Speaker 1: about that process of falling pregnant with your first My 43 00:02:49,766 --> 00:02:50,166 Speaker 1: husband and. 44 00:02:50,206 --> 00:02:52,445 Speaker 2: I, I guess, we decided, you know, we wanted a family, 45 00:02:52,525 --> 00:02:55,365 Speaker 2: we wanted kids. We tried for a little bit kind 46 00:02:55,365 --> 00:02:58,326 Speaker 2: of naturally didn't get anywhere. I was son to get 47 00:02:58,365 --> 00:03:01,446 Speaker 2: really impatient. I'm still fairly young at the time, but 48 00:03:01,685 --> 00:03:04,565 Speaker 2: you know, I wanted things done kind of. Now, we 49 00:03:04,645 --> 00:03:08,166 Speaker 2: decided to embark on IVF. Actually, before IVF, we did 50 00:03:08,206 --> 00:03:11,845 Speaker 2: a few cycles of a varying induction, which didn't work 51 00:03:12,166 --> 00:03:15,566 Speaker 2: after two rounds, and went straight to IVF. So, you know, 52 00:03:15,645 --> 00:03:19,846 Speaker 2: did the hormones, did the injections, the egg collection, which 53 00:03:19,886 --> 00:03:22,245 Speaker 2: was a huge process. And this was in the middle 54 00:03:22,245 --> 00:03:27,206 Speaker 2: of COVID winter lockdowns, so not a fun time. Yeah, 55 00:03:27,206 --> 00:03:29,766 Speaker 2: it was really really tough, to be honest, The injections 56 00:03:30,166 --> 00:03:32,326 Speaker 2: not nice and I'm not very good at them. My 57 00:03:32,405 --> 00:03:34,566 Speaker 2: husband actually couldn't be in the same room when I 58 00:03:34,645 --> 00:03:38,445 Speaker 2: was doing them. Injection after injection after injection into the 59 00:03:38,646 --> 00:03:40,845 Speaker 2: egg collection, of which I don't know if this is 60 00:03:40,846 --> 00:03:42,646 Speaker 2: a good number or a band number, but I was fortunately, 61 00:03:42,686 --> 00:03:46,366 Speaker 2: I guess, to get nine eggs collected in the end, and. 62 00:03:46,366 --> 00:03:50,046 Speaker 1: All those nine eggs, you got how many embryos out 63 00:03:50,046 --> 00:03:50,725 Speaker 1: of the nine? 64 00:03:51,326 --> 00:03:53,926 Speaker 2: Every day kind of dropped off, dropped off, dropped off 65 00:03:54,086 --> 00:03:57,446 Speaker 2: down to two in Bruce that were I guess day 66 00:03:57,486 --> 00:04:02,166 Speaker 2: five blastissists that were ready and appropriate to be implanted. 67 00:04:02,566 --> 00:04:05,206 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you got really fortunate with your first and 68 00:04:05,286 --> 00:04:07,446 Speaker 1: you feel pregnant with him straight away. 69 00:04:07,646 --> 00:04:11,046 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, very fortunate the first round. What and we 70 00:04:11,166 --> 00:04:12,566 Speaker 2: got beautiful Lucas. 71 00:04:12,766 --> 00:04:16,246 Speaker 1: So Lucas comes along and you know you're ready to 72 00:04:16,326 --> 00:04:21,645 Speaker 1: try again and you've got your one embryo left. So 73 00:04:21,846 --> 00:04:24,246 Speaker 1: what was going through your mind when you were ready 74 00:04:24,286 --> 00:04:25,886 Speaker 1: to implant that embryo? 75 00:04:26,406 --> 00:04:30,525 Speaker 2: Gosh, it was full on. So look, yeah, as you say, 76 00:04:30,526 --> 00:04:32,885 Speaker 2: we had one embryo left, it had been frozen for 77 00:04:32,926 --> 00:04:37,126 Speaker 2: two years. There was a lot of hope and a 78 00:04:37,166 --> 00:04:39,926 Speaker 2: lot kind of writing on that final one Emberor. I 79 00:04:39,966 --> 00:04:42,406 Speaker 2: really didn't want to go through IVF again, the whole 80 00:04:43,126 --> 00:04:47,246 Speaker 2: hormones and egg collection. I also got a very hyperstimulation 81 00:04:47,565 --> 00:04:50,166 Speaker 2: and ended up in the emergency ward for a night. 82 00:04:51,286 --> 00:04:53,565 Speaker 2: And yeah, it was one Emberor and one final one 83 00:04:53,606 --> 00:04:56,325 Speaker 2: and all our hopes and dreams. We kind of resting 84 00:04:56,325 --> 00:05:00,205 Speaker 2: on this one embrew that had been frozen for two years, 85 00:05:00,406 --> 00:05:02,606 Speaker 2: and we're just hoping that one worked. 86 00:05:03,246 --> 00:05:05,806 Speaker 1: You had your transfer, you went home. Now, for those 87 00:05:05,806 --> 00:05:09,686 Speaker 1: who haven't been through IVF, when you get an egg transfer, 88 00:05:09,806 --> 00:05:12,445 Speaker 1: you're not guaranteed to be pregnant. There's about a ten 89 00:05:12,565 --> 00:05:15,846 Speaker 1: day window that you have to wait, and then they 90 00:05:15,926 --> 00:05:17,645 Speaker 1: do a blood test and they can tell you if 91 00:05:17,686 --> 00:05:23,086 Speaker 1: you're pregnant or not, and it is the most excruciating weight. Yeah, 92 00:05:23,166 --> 00:05:25,406 Speaker 1: how did you feel going into that blood test? Because 93 00:05:25,445 --> 00:05:27,246 Speaker 1: I know that you waited, which a lot of women 94 00:05:27,366 --> 00:05:28,005 Speaker 1: don't wait. 95 00:05:28,445 --> 00:05:31,005 Speaker 2: It's a waiting game, right, It's like at the end 96 00:05:31,086 --> 00:05:33,846 Speaker 2: of your pregnancy, when you're waiting for baby to come. 97 00:05:33,926 --> 00:05:38,246 Speaker 2: It's a waiting game. Between that implantation and the blood test, 98 00:05:38,286 --> 00:05:41,126 Speaker 2: it's a waiting game. And then from that blood test 99 00:05:41,166 --> 00:05:46,246 Speaker 2: to the phone calls. It's huge. What probably helped was 100 00:05:46,526 --> 00:05:49,565 Speaker 2: I went on holidays, So after the implantation, I went 101 00:05:49,606 --> 00:05:51,885 Speaker 2: on holidays, just up to write for a few days 102 00:05:52,046 --> 00:05:55,526 Speaker 2: with my husband and son. I also got acupuncture, which 103 00:05:55,565 --> 00:06:00,205 Speaker 2: has shown to support and help that implantation. And I 104 00:06:00,286 --> 00:06:03,885 Speaker 2: just waited and I tried to be really patient. I 105 00:06:03,966 --> 00:06:06,486 Speaker 2: got the blood test and then just waited from the 106 00:06:06,526 --> 00:06:08,366 Speaker 2: phone call from the fertility clinic. 107 00:06:08,726 --> 00:06:09,686 Speaker 1: What was that phone call? 108 00:06:09,765 --> 00:06:13,405 Speaker 2: Like? Tears of happiness and joy. I still remember it, 109 00:06:13,486 --> 00:06:17,286 Speaker 2: and I remember getting the phone call first with Lucas, 110 00:06:17,366 --> 00:06:21,366 Speaker 2: exactly where we were, exactly the time, and exactly the 111 00:06:21,445 --> 00:06:25,165 Speaker 2: feeling of just you know, hope and want and longing 112 00:06:25,445 --> 00:06:29,406 Speaker 2: and this real, like I don't know, it's somewhat desperate 113 00:06:29,486 --> 00:06:32,325 Speaker 2: feeling that you just so want this baby and so 114 00:06:32,526 --> 00:06:37,445 Speaker 2: want this child, and relief, complete relief just washed over 115 00:06:37,526 --> 00:06:40,205 Speaker 2: me because they call you and you know the call 116 00:06:40,366 --> 00:06:43,166 Speaker 2: is coming, and you know you know they're going to 117 00:06:43,166 --> 00:06:45,966 Speaker 2: either tell you the best news or the worst news. 118 00:06:46,246 --> 00:06:49,166 Speaker 2: And both times that were very quick and just said 119 00:06:49,366 --> 00:06:51,725 Speaker 2: straight away, congratulations, you're pregnant. 120 00:06:52,206 --> 00:06:55,046 Speaker 1: Did you go for a dating scan? If you went through, we. 121 00:06:55,126 --> 00:06:58,046 Speaker 2: Did go for a dating scan. I think about week seven. 122 00:06:58,526 --> 00:07:01,565 Speaker 2: I remember calling up my obstetrician at the time and said, oh, look, 123 00:07:01,565 --> 00:07:04,565 Speaker 2: I'm pregnant. I'd love to come in and see my 124 00:07:04,646 --> 00:07:07,366 Speaker 2: ob They're like, oh, no, no, you're early to orright, 125 00:07:07,806 --> 00:07:09,806 Speaker 2: you know, week seven, you know, come back in a 126 00:07:09,806 --> 00:07:12,206 Speaker 2: few more weeks, come back at week ten. And I said, 127 00:07:12,246 --> 00:07:14,286 Speaker 2: oh no, no, I really want to go, like, I 128 00:07:14,366 --> 00:07:16,806 Speaker 2: just want to make sure that it's a viable pregnancy 129 00:07:16,966 --> 00:07:19,766 Speaker 2: and it's healthy and safe, and they're like, oh, okay, sure 130 00:07:19,846 --> 00:07:21,806 Speaker 2: numbers come in. And so I came in at that 131 00:07:21,926 --> 00:07:24,606 Speaker 2: week seven for that first deaving scan. 132 00:07:25,006 --> 00:07:27,806 Speaker 1: And your partner was with you, yes, Yehnie was with you. Yes, 133 00:07:28,166 --> 00:07:31,766 Speaker 1: So a spoiler alert, you have twins, So we know 134 00:07:31,846 --> 00:07:35,086 Speaker 1: that we had twins here. But what I really want 135 00:07:35,086 --> 00:07:38,086 Speaker 1: to stress is you have identical twins, right, yes, So 136 00:07:38,326 --> 00:07:40,926 Speaker 1: they only implanted one embryo, so this wasn't a case 137 00:07:41,086 --> 00:07:44,526 Speaker 1: of you know, IVF putting multiple embryos in and that's 138 00:07:44,526 --> 00:07:47,126 Speaker 1: why you have twins, Like, you had identical twins. So 139 00:07:47,166 --> 00:07:51,566 Speaker 1: at some point during your early weeks, this embryo split 140 00:07:51,766 --> 00:07:54,286 Speaker 1: into your identical twins. I want you to kind of 141 00:07:54,286 --> 00:07:57,286 Speaker 1: paint me a picture of being in that ultrasound room 142 00:07:57,446 --> 00:08:00,726 Speaker 1: with your husband to find out that you are actually 143 00:08:00,806 --> 00:08:01,446 Speaker 1: having twins. 144 00:08:01,846 --> 00:08:04,686 Speaker 2: So we get in the room. It wasn't a long wait, 145 00:08:05,206 --> 00:08:07,965 Speaker 2: and very quickly I was up on the table and 146 00:08:08,486 --> 00:08:11,926 Speaker 2: the obstrician you know, put a gel on, put that 147 00:08:12,126 --> 00:08:17,126 Speaker 2: ultrasound wand thing on, and very very quickly and very 148 00:08:17,126 --> 00:08:20,326 Speaker 2: clearly we can see what we can hear and see 149 00:08:20,326 --> 00:08:27,526 Speaker 2: a heartbeat, strong, healthy bible, normal pregnancy, relief, pure tears, 150 00:08:27,526 --> 00:08:32,126 Speaker 2: a cry, tears of joy, happiness done, obviously positive pregnancy 151 00:08:32,206 --> 00:08:34,806 Speaker 2: and blood test. You know it's good and baby at 152 00:08:34,806 --> 00:08:38,886 Speaker 2: week seven, very strong heartbeat, wonderful, and I was just 153 00:08:38,926 --> 00:08:42,805 Speaker 2: crying and crying and crying, but positive, good tears. And 154 00:08:42,846 --> 00:08:45,486 Speaker 2: then the obstetrician at the time, I just remember this 155 00:08:45,686 --> 00:08:49,445 Speaker 2: so clearly. He got the sonography I don't know the 156 00:08:49,726 --> 00:08:53,486 Speaker 2: wand the thing, and he very quickly moved it from 157 00:08:53,566 --> 00:08:57,126 Speaker 2: one side of my uterus to the other and up 158 00:08:57,165 --> 00:09:00,486 Speaker 2: popped another embryo on the screen, the black and white 159 00:09:00,886 --> 00:09:06,846 Speaker 2: sonography screen, very clearly another embryo moving and automatically said 160 00:09:07,246 --> 00:09:11,246 Speaker 2: there's two. He didn't say anything, he was silent, he 161 00:09:11,446 --> 00:09:15,206 Speaker 2: was still. He is normally a very talkative ob and 162 00:09:15,926 --> 00:09:18,966 Speaker 2: he didn't say a word. At the same time, I've 163 00:09:18,966 --> 00:09:22,006 Speaker 2: got my husband in one corner of the room, you know, engaged, 164 00:09:22,045 --> 00:09:25,566 Speaker 2: but probably like also not that engaged. I have a 165 00:09:25,606 --> 00:09:28,526 Speaker 2: student midwife in the other corner. Again, I don't think 166 00:09:28,526 --> 00:09:31,285 Speaker 2: she was saying much attention at the time. And then 167 00:09:31,285 --> 00:09:34,086 Speaker 2: all of a sudden everyone was like watching and looking 168 00:09:34,126 --> 00:09:36,166 Speaker 2: at the screen and looking at me and looking at 169 00:09:36,246 --> 00:09:40,086 Speaker 2: my tummy, and my ob looked at me, looked at 170 00:09:40,086 --> 00:09:41,806 Speaker 2: my tummy, looked at the screen, looked at me, looked 171 00:09:41,806 --> 00:09:44,286 Speaker 2: and I just kept saying, there's two, there's two, like 172 00:09:44,566 --> 00:09:47,166 Speaker 2: I could read and interpret the ultrasound that you know, 173 00:09:47,206 --> 00:09:49,526 Speaker 2: the black and white screen, and I knew what I 174 00:09:49,606 --> 00:09:53,206 Speaker 2: was saying. And again he doesn't say anything for a 175 00:09:53,285 --> 00:09:54,886 Speaker 2: long time, and I was like, oh my god, just 176 00:09:54,926 --> 00:09:58,166 Speaker 2: talk to say something for such a normally talkative guy. 177 00:09:58,726 --> 00:10:01,526 Speaker 2: He looked at me, looked at the scan and said, congratulations, 178 00:10:01,966 --> 00:10:05,726 Speaker 2: you're having twins. And more cries, more shock, more tears, 179 00:10:05,886 --> 00:10:10,446 Speaker 2: more laughter. It just was a huge, huge, huge shock. 180 00:10:10,806 --> 00:10:14,286 Speaker 2: Any profanities, Yes, I'm sure, yes, I think so, I 181 00:10:14,285 --> 00:10:17,726 Speaker 2: think I swell. Yes, I remember the shock. I don't 182 00:10:17,726 --> 00:10:19,846 Speaker 2: remember what I said, but I remember the shock. And 183 00:10:19,886 --> 00:10:23,606 Speaker 2: then just like both like laughter, bit tears. 184 00:10:24,006 --> 00:10:25,806 Speaker 1: So you and your husband get in the car. You've 185 00:10:25,846 --> 00:10:29,766 Speaker 1: just found out this very shocking news. What's that conversation sound? 186 00:10:29,886 --> 00:10:32,646 Speaker 2: Like, God, that was really tough. I'll be honest with you, 187 00:10:32,726 --> 00:10:35,646 Speaker 2: like this was just obviously not expected at all, Like, 188 00:10:35,726 --> 00:10:38,366 Speaker 2: we don't have twins in the family, it's not a 189 00:10:38,366 --> 00:10:44,086 Speaker 2: genetic link. They were completely random, identical twins. We get out. 190 00:10:44,366 --> 00:10:46,126 Speaker 2: I meant to get back to work. Yi's meant to 191 00:10:46,126 --> 00:10:49,206 Speaker 2: get back to his work, and we just like are 192 00:10:49,246 --> 00:10:53,286 Speaker 2: still processing the news and still processing the information. And 193 00:10:54,366 --> 00:10:56,486 Speaker 2: I must say it took weeks and months to process 194 00:10:56,526 --> 00:10:59,526 Speaker 2: it and come to terms with that. You know, just 195 00:10:59,566 --> 00:11:01,685 Speaker 2: a lot of questions I think, like are they healthy? 196 00:11:01,806 --> 00:11:03,406 Speaker 2: Is it going to be a viable pregnancy? Can I 197 00:11:03,486 --> 00:11:05,886 Speaker 2: carry twins? How are we going to feel? Will I 198 00:11:05,926 --> 00:11:09,966 Speaker 2: emotionally cope, physically cope? You know? Can I actually carry 199 00:11:10,126 --> 00:11:12,285 Speaker 2: twins to term? We will that? Look like, what does 200 00:11:12,285 --> 00:11:13,925 Speaker 2: this mean for my career? What does this mean for 201 00:11:14,006 --> 00:11:16,805 Speaker 2: Lucas our son? You know, we're giving him two siblings. 202 00:11:17,086 --> 00:11:19,766 Speaker 2: We're renovating our house. Does it fit another room? Do 203 00:11:19,806 --> 00:11:20,886 Speaker 2: we have to get a new car? 204 00:11:21,405 --> 00:11:21,606 Speaker 1: You know? 205 00:11:21,766 --> 00:11:24,646 Speaker 2: Three car seats? What does this mean for our family? 206 00:11:24,806 --> 00:11:28,206 Speaker 2: And this wasn't on the cars, This wasn't planned. We 207 00:11:28,246 --> 00:11:31,486 Speaker 2: wanted like this normal kind of two parents, two kids, 208 00:11:31,766 --> 00:11:34,685 Speaker 2: and very quickly we're outnumbered three like that. 209 00:11:34,966 --> 00:11:37,846 Speaker 1: And to add complexity to this twin pregnancy, which is 210 00:11:37,886 --> 00:11:40,165 Speaker 1: already a challenge, you know, we know that sort of 211 00:11:40,285 --> 00:11:44,726 Speaker 1: risks increase with multiples, with a twin pregnancy. You actually 212 00:11:44,766 --> 00:11:47,486 Speaker 1: had a very rare type of twins, and they're called 213 00:11:47,646 --> 00:11:50,286 Speaker 1: mc DA twins. Now I won't try and pronounce the 214 00:11:50,326 --> 00:11:53,246 Speaker 1: actual name of it, but basically you told me that 215 00:11:53,246 --> 00:11:56,886 Speaker 1: that means that they had a single placenter with two 216 00:11:57,086 --> 00:12:00,086 Speaker 1: amniotic sacs, which means that they were sharing nutrients from 217 00:12:00,126 --> 00:12:02,966 Speaker 1: one placenta. Can you tell us what the doctors told 218 00:12:03,006 --> 00:12:05,126 Speaker 1: you about what that actually means. 219 00:12:05,726 --> 00:12:09,966 Speaker 2: So in that first stating scan orob very clearly could 220 00:12:09,966 --> 00:12:12,565 Speaker 2: see the type of twins that they were and very 221 00:12:12,646 --> 00:12:15,646 Speaker 2: quickly said, look, this is a high risk twin pregnancy. 222 00:12:16,006 --> 00:12:18,726 Speaker 2: They're sharing a placenter. Drew diagrams and kind of drew 223 00:12:18,806 --> 00:12:21,846 Speaker 2: what it looked like. But effectively positive news is that 224 00:12:21,846 --> 00:12:25,046 Speaker 2: they're in two separate amniotic sacs and there was a 225 00:12:25,086 --> 00:12:28,766 Speaker 2: membrane between them. However, sharing a placenta, as you say, like, 226 00:12:28,806 --> 00:12:31,766 Speaker 2: they're sharing nutrients from that one plus center with two 227 00:12:31,886 --> 00:12:35,606 Speaker 2: umbilical cords, and so there's a potential risk. I mean 228 00:12:35,686 --> 00:12:38,286 Speaker 2: a lot of risks were twins, but one of the 229 00:12:38,326 --> 00:12:41,446 Speaker 2: most concerning ones they worry about is twin to twin 230 00:12:41,526 --> 00:12:45,326 Speaker 2: transfusion syndrome, which is where one twin gets more nutrients 231 00:12:45,405 --> 00:12:48,165 Speaker 2: than the other and it's really a problem for both twins. 232 00:12:48,566 --> 00:12:51,406 Speaker 2: Because of that, I had to be monitored and scanned 233 00:12:51,486 --> 00:12:54,405 Speaker 2: every fortnight from I think week fifteen, just to make 234 00:12:54,405 --> 00:12:56,406 Speaker 2: sure that the babies are growing kind of normally and 235 00:12:56,446 --> 00:12:59,286 Speaker 2: healthy and equally, and they were kind of getting equal 236 00:12:59,766 --> 00:13:02,966 Speaker 2: amount of nutrients of which they were very fortunate and 237 00:13:03,006 --> 00:13:06,405 Speaker 2: I never had They call it t TT yes, twin 238 00:13:06,446 --> 00:13:08,006 Speaker 2: to twin transfusion syndrome. 239 00:13:08,326 --> 00:13:11,366 Speaker 1: Basically that could mean that one twin's growing much faster, 240 00:13:11,446 --> 00:13:13,285 Speaker 1: the other one's not getting any nutrients, and you can 241 00:13:13,366 --> 00:13:18,726 Speaker 1: really risk the life of the baby yourself. It's pretty serious. Yes, 242 00:13:19,086 --> 00:13:21,925 Speaker 1: So obviously that's a big concern for you throughout your pregnancy. 243 00:13:21,966 --> 00:13:24,726 Speaker 1: And I also understand that you were very unwell through 244 00:13:24,846 --> 00:13:27,446 Speaker 1: your pregnancy as well. So what was it like, sort 245 00:13:27,486 --> 00:13:32,326 Speaker 1: of juggling a toddler, a high demand position at work, 246 00:13:32,846 --> 00:13:33,926 Speaker 1: being pregnant with twins. 247 00:13:34,246 --> 00:13:37,286 Speaker 2: It was rough. It was really rough. And I compare 248 00:13:37,326 --> 00:13:39,446 Speaker 2: in contrast, I think a lot to my first pregnancy 249 00:13:39,526 --> 00:13:42,526 Speaker 2: that I was told was very boring, a very normal pregnancy, 250 00:13:43,086 --> 00:13:47,486 Speaker 2: not many issues, and this song was just very very challenging. 251 00:13:47,566 --> 00:13:52,526 Speaker 2: I was nauseous, severely nauseous for mass every day I 252 00:13:52,566 --> 00:13:55,205 Speaker 2: was fortunate I didn't throw up at all, but it 253 00:13:55,246 --> 00:13:58,086 Speaker 2: was just like, think of the worst hangover you've ever had, 254 00:13:58,886 --> 00:14:02,566 Speaker 2: mixed with travel sickness and motion sickness. It was rubbish. 255 00:14:02,566 --> 00:14:05,086 Speaker 2: It was really rubbish. And looking after my toddler, who's 256 00:14:05,246 --> 00:14:08,846 Speaker 2: two at the time and here, you know, terrible twos 257 00:14:09,165 --> 00:14:12,966 Speaker 2: was challenging. And then work and then travel to Sydney, 258 00:14:13,766 --> 00:14:16,086 Speaker 2: and yeah, it was a lot. 259 00:14:16,246 --> 00:14:18,726 Speaker 1: Did you have anything any particular foods or drinks that 260 00:14:18,806 --> 00:14:20,926 Speaker 1: really got you through when you were feeling nauseous? 261 00:14:21,326 --> 00:14:24,166 Speaker 2: Yes, Oh my god, ginger and just ginger beer and 262 00:14:24,606 --> 00:14:25,326 Speaker 2: fresh ginger. 263 00:14:25,686 --> 00:14:28,406 Speaker 1: Okay, so let's move along. You're feel nauseous, you feeling horrible, 264 00:14:28,486 --> 00:14:30,526 Speaker 1: But family's obviously very excited. 265 00:14:31,206 --> 00:14:33,766 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And in fact it was interesting because no 266 00:14:33,806 --> 00:14:37,406 Speaker 2: one knew were pregnant. We hadn't told anyone until we, 267 00:14:37,646 --> 00:14:39,286 Speaker 2: you know, had that dating scan and so it was 268 00:14:39,366 --> 00:14:43,246 Speaker 2: like double the news, like, oh, we're pregnant and we're 269 00:14:43,286 --> 00:14:46,886 Speaker 2: having twins, kind of two in one. Yeah, I think. Yeah, 270 00:14:46,886 --> 00:14:49,406 Speaker 2: both sides of the family very very happy. A bit 271 00:14:49,446 --> 00:14:52,246 Speaker 2: of a shock obviously, because as I said, like, twins 272 00:14:52,286 --> 00:14:55,686 Speaker 2: don't run in the family either side. And again, it's 273 00:14:55,686 --> 00:14:58,046 Speaker 2: not a genetic thing at all. Yeah, a lot of 274 00:14:58,086 --> 00:14:59,166 Speaker 2: excitement from the family. 275 00:14:59,486 --> 00:14:59,766 Speaker 1: Yeah. 276 00:14:59,846 --> 00:15:03,886 Speaker 2: I remember actually one early on in the pregnancy justice, 277 00:15:03,926 --> 00:15:05,926 Speaker 2: we found the news and as I I told my 278 00:15:06,006 --> 00:15:10,406 Speaker 2: sister as I remember crying, crying with her, Yeah, because 279 00:15:11,246 --> 00:15:13,846 Speaker 2: I was still processing the news and still processing what 280 00:15:13,846 --> 00:15:18,006 Speaker 2: it meant. And again it wasn't planned, and she just 281 00:15:18,086 --> 00:15:20,926 Speaker 2: held me and I just cried. It was a beautiful moment, 282 00:15:21,006 --> 00:15:23,686 Speaker 2: but it was still hard to kind of come to. 283 00:15:23,686 --> 00:15:25,726 Speaker 1: Terms with it. Yeah. 284 00:15:25,926 --> 00:15:27,806 Speaker 2: Yeah, it still is a little bit. I know the 285 00:15:27,846 --> 00:15:30,606 Speaker 2: voice said it over a year, but it's wild to 286 00:15:30,686 --> 00:15:31,886 Speaker 2: think we've. 287 00:15:31,686 --> 00:15:33,646 Speaker 1: Had twins coming up. 288 00:15:34,206 --> 00:15:38,006 Speaker 2: I was already a few centimeters dilated and Raley's feet 289 00:15:38,366 --> 00:15:42,846 Speaker 2: were coming out. 290 00:15:43,366 --> 00:15:45,446 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, one is still so little. Like I 291 00:15:45,486 --> 00:15:48,006 Speaker 1: feel like once you get through that first year, it 292 00:15:48,046 --> 00:15:50,126 Speaker 1: is does sort of start to get a little bit easier. 293 00:15:50,566 --> 00:15:54,006 Speaker 1: But true first birthdays should be the celebration of mum 294 00:15:54,046 --> 00:15:56,006 Speaker 1: and dad, particularly mom, but mum and dad. 295 00:15:56,046 --> 00:15:58,606 Speaker 2: Oh, I agree for sure obviously with. 296 00:15:58,606 --> 00:16:03,206 Speaker 1: Twins again, highway risk pregnancy of twins often gestation is 297 00:16:03,246 --> 00:16:07,206 Speaker 1: often a little bit shorter. But you're doctor didn't want 298 00:16:07,246 --> 00:16:09,366 Speaker 1: you to go past a certain time. Can you talk 299 00:16:09,406 --> 00:16:10,526 Speaker 1: to us about that. 300 00:16:10,646 --> 00:16:14,086 Speaker 2: With twins kind of coming to term is around thirty 301 00:16:14,126 --> 00:16:16,566 Speaker 2: seven weeks. For the type of twins I had, it 302 00:16:16,646 --> 00:16:21,286 Speaker 2: was about thirty seven weeks, and we had planned caesarean. Well, no, 303 00:16:21,366 --> 00:16:24,006 Speaker 2: we had planned for a vaginal delivery, and my OV 304 00:16:24,206 --> 00:16:26,526 Speaker 2: was very happy for that, given the kind of the 305 00:16:26,566 --> 00:16:30,246 Speaker 2: first physiological vaginal delivery with my first son, we're working 306 00:16:30,286 --> 00:16:33,126 Speaker 2: towards that and aiming towards that. It was great, all 307 00:16:33,166 --> 00:16:37,006 Speaker 2: on board. However, at week thirty two, my first son, 308 00:16:37,126 --> 00:16:41,006 Speaker 2: Riley twin one, he flipped, so from being head down 309 00:16:41,166 --> 00:16:44,406 Speaker 2: he was now fit down and breach. And as soon 310 00:16:44,446 --> 00:16:47,726 Speaker 2: as that happened, that through, you know, a vaginal birth 311 00:16:47,806 --> 00:16:50,526 Speaker 2: plan out the window because there's not much you could 312 00:16:50,566 --> 00:16:52,966 Speaker 2: do with like I know, with one spinning babies and 313 00:16:53,046 --> 00:16:54,646 Speaker 2: you can kind of get them to try and flip again. 314 00:16:55,286 --> 00:16:57,846 Speaker 2: You can't do that with twins. And so every week 315 00:16:57,886 --> 00:17:00,006 Speaker 2: and every scan I was just hoping like Riley had 316 00:17:00,046 --> 00:17:03,766 Speaker 2: flipped again and flipped back to head down, but he hadn't, 317 00:17:03,846 --> 00:17:07,446 Speaker 2: and he didn't, So then we had to think about, okay, well, 318 00:17:07,646 --> 00:17:11,926 Speaker 2: plan b cesarean, and we had booked a cesarean for 319 00:17:12,006 --> 00:17:14,366 Speaker 2: kind of mid March, so that was booked in and 320 00:17:14,446 --> 00:17:16,806 Speaker 2: all good and all fine. And from that moment, I 321 00:17:16,806 --> 00:17:18,286 Speaker 2: did a lot of research. I spoke to a lot 322 00:17:18,326 --> 00:17:22,046 Speaker 2: of girlfriends, particularly friends with twins and who had gone 323 00:17:22,046 --> 00:17:24,606 Speaker 2: through a cesarean. Spoke to a lot of friends with 324 00:17:24,686 --> 00:17:28,366 Speaker 2: both negative and positive experiences of a cesarean. I did 325 00:17:28,406 --> 00:17:30,846 Speaker 2: a lot of research, a lot of information. I spoke 326 00:17:30,846 --> 00:17:32,686 Speaker 2: to a lot of people to kind of really get 327 00:17:32,686 --> 00:17:35,766 Speaker 2: me ready and prepare me for that moment. But that 328 00:17:36,206 --> 00:17:40,046 Speaker 2: planned cesarean date didn't happen because the boys came early. 329 00:17:40,686 --> 00:17:43,966 Speaker 2: The boys came at thirty four and four, because I 330 00:17:44,006 --> 00:17:48,446 Speaker 2: went into spontaneous labor. Well, as you'd jumped back a step, Riley, 331 00:17:48,646 --> 00:17:51,686 Speaker 2: we think it's frailey, chicky bugger. He kicked and broke 332 00:17:51,726 --> 00:17:54,886 Speaker 2: my waters lot a little so and sound a little 333 00:17:54,926 --> 00:17:59,486 Speaker 2: chicky monkey day No, because he was fit down and 334 00:17:59,526 --> 00:18:02,486 Speaker 2: he was breach like my Obi says to me, he 335 00:18:02,566 --> 00:18:05,646 Speaker 2: probably kicked kick too hard and broke your waters. And 336 00:18:05,766 --> 00:18:09,046 Speaker 2: one afternoon I remember i'd you know, been that day 337 00:18:09,126 --> 00:18:11,606 Speaker 2: like shopping and washing and cooking and cleaning and all 338 00:18:11,686 --> 00:18:14,326 Speaker 2: the things as you do as a mum and managing 339 00:18:14,366 --> 00:18:17,686 Speaker 2: a family. I had like a five minute break and 340 00:18:17,726 --> 00:18:20,886 Speaker 2: I remember lying on my bed with my husband and 341 00:18:20,926 --> 00:18:23,566 Speaker 2: my son, and we put on like Bluey or something 342 00:18:23,646 --> 00:18:26,366 Speaker 2: for my son to watch. IM. Oh perfect, I can 343 00:18:26,446 --> 00:18:28,886 Speaker 2: literally just lie down and get off my feet and 344 00:18:28,966 --> 00:18:30,606 Speaker 2: watch this with him for like half an hour. And 345 00:18:30,766 --> 00:18:34,486 Speaker 2: lying in bed. Within literally like two minutes of putting 346 00:18:34,486 --> 00:18:39,446 Speaker 2: on that show, my water's broke and water went everywhere 347 00:18:39,486 --> 00:18:42,526 Speaker 2: all over the bed. My husband actually was talking to 348 00:18:42,566 --> 00:18:44,806 Speaker 2: another friend who's a twin dad at the time on 349 00:18:44,846 --> 00:18:48,446 Speaker 2: the phone, and Yanni had thought I had actually like 350 00:18:48,486 --> 00:18:52,806 Speaker 2: wet my pants all like worse because I was holding 351 00:18:52,846 --> 00:18:56,326 Speaker 2: my bump like I was holding my my backside. I 352 00:18:56,366 --> 00:18:58,726 Speaker 2: was on the bed and I like literally said, oh, 353 00:18:58,766 --> 00:19:00,726 Speaker 2: and how my backside. He's like, oh my god, have 354 00:19:00,806 --> 00:19:03,846 Speaker 2: you like wet yourself or what's happened? He was on 355 00:19:03,886 --> 00:19:05,286 Speaker 2: the phone and he's like, oh, mate, I'm gonna have 356 00:19:05,326 --> 00:19:08,886 Speaker 2: to drop off because I think Lauren's just her waters 357 00:19:08,886 --> 00:19:11,566 Speaker 2: are broken. Got off the phone call. I was lying 358 00:19:11,566 --> 00:19:13,806 Speaker 2: in bed still with my son. All of a sudden, 359 00:19:13,846 --> 00:19:15,926 Speaker 2: we were like up and off the bed, but there 360 00:19:15,966 --> 00:19:18,846 Speaker 2: was water everywhere, and it kept gushing and gushing and gushing. 361 00:19:19,206 --> 00:19:22,966 Speaker 2: Went to the toilet. Water's coming. I've got a like 362 00:19:22,966 --> 00:19:26,806 Speaker 2: a maternity pad, put that in my underwear and very 363 00:19:26,886 --> 00:19:30,446 Speaker 2: quickly I just said, okay, it's on like waters are broken, 364 00:19:30,966 --> 00:19:32,126 Speaker 2: we need to get to hospital. 365 00:19:32,406 --> 00:19:36,166 Speaker 1: And this is a Sunday too, Sunday afternoon. Yeah, so 366 00:19:36,366 --> 00:19:37,926 Speaker 1: you basically had to call the whole new team in. 367 00:19:38,366 --> 00:19:41,806 Speaker 2: Yes. Yes, so my Obi wasn't on call that weekend 368 00:19:42,606 --> 00:19:45,246 Speaker 2: and I got a whole new team because it ended 369 00:19:45,326 --> 00:19:49,606 Speaker 2: up becoming an emergency sasaian and a whole new team 370 00:19:49,886 --> 00:19:52,806 Speaker 2: greeted us in hospital and you pay all the penalty 371 00:19:52,886 --> 00:19:55,406 Speaker 2: rates because it's a Sunday afternoon. So that was fun, 372 00:19:55,966 --> 00:19:57,966 Speaker 2: all new people. But look, we knew the hospital, we 373 00:19:58,046 --> 00:20:00,846 Speaker 2: knew the plan. My Obi. I was very lucky because 374 00:20:00,886 --> 00:20:02,886 Speaker 2: I spoke to him on the phone actually in hospital 375 00:20:02,926 --> 00:20:07,366 Speaker 2: about what was about to happen and cesarian and you know, 376 00:20:07,406 --> 00:20:09,926 Speaker 2: as discussed, you know we're going to be doing s 377 00:20:10,046 --> 00:20:13,966 Speaker 2: Y and zaid, so did have continuity of care from him, 378 00:20:14,486 --> 00:20:16,286 Speaker 2: and I knew what I was going into and it 379 00:20:16,326 --> 00:20:19,046 Speaker 2: was still to plan. It was just a little bit early. 380 00:20:19,526 --> 00:20:22,206 Speaker 1: Yeah, you get in there, you get your spinal tap, 381 00:20:22,446 --> 00:20:27,206 Speaker 1: you're in the theater and they take out the first baby. Yes, 382 00:20:27,686 --> 00:20:29,965 Speaker 1: what was that experience like? Did they have to go 383 00:20:29,966 --> 00:20:30,886 Speaker 1: straight to special care. 384 00:20:31,006 --> 00:20:34,286 Speaker 2: They did shock again, a lot of shock because it happened, 385 00:20:34,286 --> 00:20:37,246 Speaker 2: I think, so quickly from when my waters broke to 386 00:20:37,366 --> 00:20:40,646 Speaker 2: then going into labor to then arriving. 387 00:20:40,966 --> 00:20:43,206 Speaker 1: How long was it between when your water's broken when 388 00:20:43,206 --> 00:20:43,926 Speaker 1: the babies came? 389 00:20:44,486 --> 00:20:45,646 Speaker 2: About three hours? 390 00:20:45,726 --> 00:20:46,446 Speaker 1: It's very quick. 391 00:20:46,566 --> 00:20:50,886 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty fast. We got pretty quick. And then 392 00:20:50,886 --> 00:20:53,606 Speaker 2: what they were hoping to do was hoping to keep 393 00:20:53,606 --> 00:20:55,446 Speaker 2: me in for another day or two, even though my 394 00:20:55,526 --> 00:20:58,606 Speaker 2: water said broke. They were hoping I wouldn't start contracting 395 00:20:58,806 --> 00:21:01,725 Speaker 2: and kind of go into labor. But I did, and 396 00:21:01,766 --> 00:21:05,886 Speaker 2: I went pretty quickly, and the contractions wrapped up bloody 397 00:21:05,886 --> 00:21:10,126 Speaker 2: fast and hard, and boy, I didn't have my tens 398 00:21:10,206 --> 00:21:14,646 Speaker 2: machine or pain relief or anything planned, and gosh, it 399 00:21:14,846 --> 00:21:17,886 Speaker 2: just brought me back very quickly to that first labor 400 00:21:17,966 --> 00:21:21,966 Speaker 2: of my son, very quickly. There three hours, and unfortunately, 401 00:21:21,966 --> 00:21:24,686 Speaker 2: because I then yet contracted when to labor, there was 402 00:21:24,726 --> 00:21:27,486 Speaker 2: no choice but to get the babies out because basically 403 00:21:27,566 --> 00:21:29,886 Speaker 2: their hope would have been to put steroids in to 404 00:21:29,926 --> 00:21:32,446 Speaker 2: help with GN development, to try and grow the lungs 405 00:21:32,486 --> 00:21:35,126 Speaker 2: a little bit faster. So their hope was to try 406 00:21:35,126 --> 00:21:37,286 Speaker 2: and keep those babies in for maybe a day or 407 00:21:37,366 --> 00:21:40,326 Speaker 2: so extra yeah, but because you started contracting, you had 408 00:21:40,366 --> 00:21:42,206 Speaker 2: to go straight to theater. I had to go straight 409 00:21:42,246 --> 00:21:42,566 Speaker 2: to theater. 410 00:21:42,726 --> 00:21:42,966 Speaker 3: Yeah. 411 00:21:43,006 --> 00:21:45,246 Speaker 2: They would have liked another day or two, which would 412 00:21:45,246 --> 00:21:46,886 Speaker 2: have been good because my ob would have been back. 413 00:21:47,446 --> 00:21:50,686 Speaker 2: But it didn't happen, and luckily I was in hospital, 414 00:21:50,726 --> 00:21:53,926 Speaker 2: and luckily we got there quickly because in theater I 415 00:21:54,046 --> 00:21:58,206 Speaker 2: was already a few centimeters dilated and Raley's feet were 416 00:21:58,246 --> 00:21:58,766 Speaker 2: coming out. 417 00:21:59,646 --> 00:22:01,526 Speaker 1: And can you imagine if you had tried to deliver 418 00:22:01,606 --> 00:22:04,646 Speaker 1: vaginally you would have that would have been really really dangerous. 419 00:22:04,926 --> 00:22:10,486 Speaker 2: Yeah, a thing it's called twin locking centro, and it's 420 00:22:10,526 --> 00:22:14,726 Speaker 2: a really really dangerous and risky procedure where they try 421 00:22:14,766 --> 00:22:16,526 Speaker 2: and deliver well, I don't think they do it or 422 00:22:16,646 --> 00:22:20,366 Speaker 2: even attempt it where twin one. So twin one is 423 00:22:20,406 --> 00:22:23,446 Speaker 2: the twin closest to your cervix meant to come out 424 00:22:23,566 --> 00:22:27,526 Speaker 2: vaginally first. That's an issue. They can't feet first breach 425 00:22:28,246 --> 00:22:30,606 Speaker 2: because their head can get locked with the other twins 426 00:22:30,686 --> 00:22:34,086 Speaker 2: head anyway, So they don't even attempt that at all, 427 00:22:34,206 --> 00:22:38,126 Speaker 2: And that was never an option, and hence the cesarean Yeah, 428 00:22:38,406 --> 00:22:41,126 Speaker 2: that wouldn't have been an option, and it's very dire outcomes. 429 00:22:41,366 --> 00:22:43,726 Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, So the boys come out and they go 430 00:22:43,846 --> 00:22:46,086 Speaker 1: straight to special care. How big were they? 431 00:22:46,806 --> 00:22:50,886 Speaker 2: They were little, so thirty four and four premature. They 432 00:22:50,926 --> 00:22:52,166 Speaker 2: are about two kilos each. 433 00:22:52,486 --> 00:22:53,326 Speaker 1: That's pretty good. 434 00:22:54,006 --> 00:22:57,726 Speaker 2: Yeah, look for their gestation age, it's not bad. I 435 00:22:57,766 --> 00:23:00,606 Speaker 2: think one was just over two killers. One was just 436 00:23:00,766 --> 00:23:04,726 Speaker 2: under two killers. But like literally fifty grams apart, pretty 437 00:23:04,766 --> 00:23:05,246 Speaker 2: equal weight. 438 00:23:05,766 --> 00:23:07,686 Speaker 1: No, that's not I mean I've heard people with full 439 00:23:07,766 --> 00:23:09,606 Speaker 1: term babies were at two and a half killers, so 440 00:23:09,646 --> 00:23:11,646 Speaker 1: it's not that's I know, five hundred grams is a 441 00:23:11,646 --> 00:23:14,726 Speaker 1: lot in the space of a baby, but I mean 442 00:23:14,806 --> 00:23:17,086 Speaker 1: you did an amazing job to keep them in that long, 443 00:23:17,126 --> 00:23:19,286 Speaker 1: and you know they got a little bit extra support 444 00:23:19,286 --> 00:23:20,126 Speaker 1: of their special care. 445 00:23:20,286 --> 00:23:21,766 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, if you think about it, it's like a 446 00:23:21,806 --> 00:23:26,966 Speaker 2: four killer baby, yeah, exactly, and the placenter and yeah. 447 00:23:26,486 --> 00:23:28,286 Speaker 1: So how long were the boys in special care? 448 00:23:29,006 --> 00:23:32,126 Speaker 2: They were in for nineteen nights. Well, so five nights 449 00:23:32,206 --> 00:23:34,406 Speaker 2: we were in there with them, and then we had 450 00:23:34,446 --> 00:23:38,526 Speaker 2: to go home, which look is hard obviously living a 451 00:23:38,566 --> 00:23:41,166 Speaker 2: baby's at the hospital while you go home, But it 452 00:23:41,166 --> 00:23:43,846 Speaker 2: also okay too, because in meant that I could recover 453 00:23:44,046 --> 00:23:47,126 Speaker 2: and I could actually you know, recover and heal from 454 00:23:47,446 --> 00:23:50,446 Speaker 2: a necessarian, which is major surgery. And I could rest 455 00:23:50,486 --> 00:23:52,966 Speaker 2: at home and be in my own bed and see 456 00:23:52,966 --> 00:23:56,286 Speaker 2: our son and be home and really recover. 457 00:23:56,686 --> 00:24:00,486 Speaker 1: It was your son, like, where are these babies, Mum? 458 00:24:00,486 --> 00:24:01,126 Speaker 1: What's going on? 459 00:24:01,486 --> 00:24:03,526 Speaker 2: I don't think he could put two and two together 460 00:24:03,606 --> 00:24:05,486 Speaker 2: at the time. I think of all the positives, right, 461 00:24:05,526 --> 00:24:08,286 Speaker 2: and I think we came home without them. We could 462 00:24:08,286 --> 00:24:09,766 Speaker 2: spend one or one time with him, and he got 463 00:24:09,766 --> 00:24:12,406 Speaker 2: a lot of attention and quality time with us. He 464 00:24:12,406 --> 00:24:16,326 Speaker 2: didn't know any different, and we got used to basically 465 00:24:16,566 --> 00:24:19,206 Speaker 2: caring for three kids, but with a lot of help 466 00:24:19,206 --> 00:24:21,046 Speaker 2: and support while they're in special care. 467 00:24:21,606 --> 00:24:24,406 Speaker 1: And how is life now with your three babies? The 468 00:24:24,446 --> 00:24:26,166 Speaker 1: boys are now just over one. 469 00:24:26,446 --> 00:24:30,406 Speaker 2: It is wild, yeah, chaos and crazy. It is nuts. 470 00:24:30,526 --> 00:24:33,526 Speaker 2: I swear three kids it's beautiful. You just leave them 471 00:24:33,566 --> 00:24:37,406 Speaker 2: and they play together. They hold each other's hands, they hug, 472 00:24:37,566 --> 00:24:40,246 Speaker 2: they cuddle. They also know rip the hair and pull 473 00:24:40,326 --> 00:24:44,046 Speaker 2: the shirt and whack each other and literally crawling over 474 00:24:44,086 --> 00:24:46,686 Speaker 2: one another for like a toy, and they take and 475 00:24:46,846 --> 00:24:50,206 Speaker 2: steal toys. Again, there's beauty and there's chaos. It we 476 00:24:50,286 --> 00:24:51,446 Speaker 2: get both worlds. 477 00:24:51,646 --> 00:24:53,446 Speaker 1: Okay, I can't let you go before I ask you 478 00:24:53,486 --> 00:24:56,166 Speaker 1: the typical twin questions, which I know that I'm sure 479 00:24:56,206 --> 00:24:59,086 Speaker 1: you get asked all the time. Did you mix them 480 00:24:59,166 --> 00:25:01,566 Speaker 1: up at any point when you first brought them home? 481 00:25:02,086 --> 00:25:06,046 Speaker 2: Oh? Constantly, constantly, Who don't do it? 482 00:25:06,726 --> 00:25:08,486 Speaker 1: You can obviously tell the difference now, I'm sure your 483 00:25:08,486 --> 00:25:11,086 Speaker 1: partner can. Is there anyone that is like still struggling, 484 00:25:11,126 --> 00:25:13,086 Speaker 1: like you're in laws or your parents? 485 00:25:13,246 --> 00:25:13,486 Speaker 3: Oh? 486 00:25:13,526 --> 00:25:15,326 Speaker 2: Look, most people when they come over, they're just do 487 00:25:15,406 --> 00:25:18,246 Speaker 2: a bit of a check, like, h, this month's Riley right. 488 00:25:18,926 --> 00:25:20,526 Speaker 2: Half the time they're right, half the time they're wrong. 489 00:25:20,566 --> 00:25:22,766 Speaker 2: But look it's fifty to fifty. So well that's it. 490 00:25:22,846 --> 00:25:24,326 Speaker 1: That's your probability there isn't it. 491 00:25:24,446 --> 00:25:27,486 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We do tend to dress like Alex 492 00:25:27,526 --> 00:25:31,566 Speaker 2: in a particular color, generally like blues and Riley in 493 00:25:31,646 --> 00:25:33,406 Speaker 2: kind of greens or red or orange. 494 00:25:33,486 --> 00:25:35,526 Speaker 1: They've got a color paladae. I love that they do. 495 00:25:35,926 --> 00:25:36,286 Speaker 3: They do. 496 00:25:38,206 --> 00:25:38,326 Speaker 2: Well. 497 00:25:38,406 --> 00:25:41,846 Speaker 1: Laura, thank you so much for sharing your story. Fascinating 498 00:25:41,886 --> 00:25:43,406 Speaker 1: to hear about this kind of twin. 499 00:25:43,726 --> 00:25:46,086 Speaker 2: Thank you. Yes, it's a crazy ride and I think 500 00:25:46,486 --> 00:25:49,486 Speaker 2: it's nuts every day, and we are blessed every day. Really, 501 00:25:49,526 --> 00:25:53,086 Speaker 2: it is a gift to twins, and they're beautiful and healthy. 502 00:25:53,126 --> 00:25:56,166 Speaker 2: And well, and Lucas is very lufty boy. He gets 503 00:25:56,166 --> 00:25:58,646 Speaker 2: two brothers. Yeah, two for the price of one. 504 00:25:58,886 --> 00:26:01,246 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us today, Laura, Thank 505 00:26:01,286 --> 00:26:10,926 Speaker 1: you so much for having me on the show. Now, 506 00:26:11,086 --> 00:26:14,086 Speaker 1: given today's birth was a very technical one, we wanted 507 00:26:14,126 --> 00:26:17,886 Speaker 1: to bring in our resident expert obstitution and gynecologist, doctor 508 00:26:17,926 --> 00:26:21,406 Speaker 1: Bromwin Divine to give us some insights. So what can 509 00:26:21,406 --> 00:26:24,366 Speaker 1: doctor Divine tell us about MCDA twins? 510 00:26:24,886 --> 00:26:29,846 Speaker 3: So MCDA twins are always identical twins. They are the 511 00:26:29,886 --> 00:26:34,846 Speaker 3: identical twins that occur when the split of an embryo 512 00:26:35,206 --> 00:26:39,766 Speaker 3: occurs relatively early in embryo development, so somewhere between about 513 00:26:39,846 --> 00:26:44,646 Speaker 3: day two and day six of post fertilization life. Round 514 00:26:44,646 --> 00:26:47,966 Speaker 3: about day three to day five, the embryo starts to 515 00:26:48,046 --> 00:26:51,046 Speaker 3: form its placenta part and its baby part, which is 516 00:26:51,046 --> 00:26:54,966 Speaker 3: known as the inncel mass, and MCDA twins form when 517 00:26:54,966 --> 00:26:58,326 Speaker 3: the inncell mass splits into two, so that you end 518 00:26:58,406 --> 00:27:01,726 Speaker 3: up with two separate babies that are genetically identical, but 519 00:27:01,846 --> 00:27:05,406 Speaker 3: they share a placenter and they share a big member 520 00:27:05,726 --> 00:27:08,326 Speaker 3: called the choreon, so they're in one choreonic sack, but 521 00:27:08,366 --> 00:27:11,806 Speaker 3: they're in two separate amniotic sacks, because there are two membranes, 522 00:27:11,846 --> 00:27:14,606 Speaker 3: the choreon and the amnion. The amnions the inner membrane, 523 00:27:15,126 --> 00:27:19,046 Speaker 3: and so these twins have two separate inner membranes. They're 524 00:27:19,086 --> 00:27:21,806 Speaker 3: in their own little inner membrane sack, but they share 525 00:27:21,846 --> 00:27:25,486 Speaker 3: a placenter. And because they share a placenter, you can 526 00:27:25,526 --> 00:27:28,326 Speaker 3: get connections of blood vessels between the two, and that's 527 00:27:28,406 --> 00:27:32,566 Speaker 3: quite common. But with a particular type of blood vessel connection, 528 00:27:33,406 --> 00:27:36,766 Speaker 3: you can get a situation where one twin gives all 529 00:27:36,926 --> 00:27:39,206 Speaker 3: its blood or a lot of its blood across to 530 00:27:39,286 --> 00:27:42,526 Speaker 3: the other twin. What that means is that one poor 531 00:27:42,566 --> 00:27:45,086 Speaker 3: little twin ends up giving all its blood and the 532 00:27:45,126 --> 00:27:48,486 Speaker 3: other twin receives all the blood. So the twin that's 533 00:27:48,606 --> 00:27:51,766 Speaker 3: the giver the donor can end up very small and 534 00:27:51,886 --> 00:27:55,486 Speaker 3: skinny with hardly any amniotic fluid around it, and the 535 00:27:55,526 --> 00:27:59,166 Speaker 3: recipient twin, which is often the sicker twin, ends up 536 00:27:59,206 --> 00:28:02,846 Speaker 3: with way too much blood, way too much amniotic fluid. 537 00:28:02,966 --> 00:28:06,126 Speaker 3: Its poor old kidneys get over profuse, so a lot 538 00:28:06,126 --> 00:28:10,926 Speaker 3: of urine, and it's poor old heart gets really overloaded 539 00:28:10,926 --> 00:28:14,166 Speaker 3: with fluid and they can go into heart failure. So 540 00:28:14,686 --> 00:28:17,966 Speaker 3: twin twin transfusion occurs about a third of the time 541 00:28:18,126 --> 00:28:23,606 Speaker 3: in monochoreonic twin pregnancies, or certainly MCDA twin pregnancies, and 542 00:28:23,846 --> 00:28:27,406 Speaker 3: of those third, about half of them are associated with 543 00:28:27,446 --> 00:28:30,966 Speaker 3: really severe outcomes. So it's one of the reasons why 544 00:28:31,006 --> 00:28:35,006 Speaker 3: we need to deliver MCDA twins earlier. But also twins 545 00:28:35,046 --> 00:28:37,446 Speaker 3: can come earlier as well, Like people can go into 546 00:28:37,566 --> 00:28:40,766 Speaker 3: labor earlier with twins, they can up to their membranes early, 547 00:28:40,846 --> 00:28:44,566 Speaker 3: and things like that. So twin twin transfusion can be 548 00:28:44,646 --> 00:28:46,766 Speaker 3: quite mild and we can just keep an eye on it, 549 00:28:46,886 --> 00:28:49,126 Speaker 3: or it can be very severe and there are things 550 00:28:49,166 --> 00:28:53,086 Speaker 3: we can do to help it. But when we see 551 00:28:53,086 --> 00:28:56,326 Speaker 3: people come to us with MCDA twins, we usually warn 552 00:28:56,406 --> 00:28:59,286 Speaker 3: them quite early. You'll be having a lot of ultrasounds 553 00:28:59,326 --> 00:29:01,206 Speaker 3: every two weeks. We're going to be keeping an eye 554 00:29:01,246 --> 00:29:03,486 Speaker 3: on these bubs and keeping an eye on the fluid 555 00:29:03,566 --> 00:29:07,126 Speaker 3: difference between them. And there are certain very subtile things 556 00:29:07,126 --> 00:29:09,326 Speaker 3: that we can see very early on that give us 557 00:29:09,326 --> 00:29:12,726 Speaker 3: an indication that twin twin transfusion might be developing. 558 00:29:12,646 --> 00:29:16,326 Speaker 1: And is there something to identical twins being more common in. 559 00:29:16,246 --> 00:29:20,326 Speaker 3: Ivf Interestingly, we have definitely moved away from putting back 560 00:29:20,406 --> 00:29:23,926 Speaker 3: multiple embryos. Sometimes people will come along and say, look, 561 00:29:23,966 --> 00:29:25,606 Speaker 3: I just want to get this all over and done with. 562 00:29:25,926 --> 00:29:28,126 Speaker 3: Can you just put two embryos back from the get go, 563 00:29:28,526 --> 00:29:31,486 Speaker 3: And we're really reluctant to do that because twin pregnancies 564 00:29:31,486 --> 00:29:35,726 Speaker 3: are definitely more complicated, even if there's two separate sacks, 565 00:29:35,766 --> 00:29:39,766 Speaker 3: two separate percenters, so in general that means non identical twins. 566 00:29:40,286 --> 00:29:43,166 Speaker 3: But even in that situation, you're more likely to go 567 00:29:43,206 --> 00:29:46,366 Speaker 3: into labor prematurely, You're more likely to have one Bobby 568 00:29:46,846 --> 00:29:48,726 Speaker 3: grow at a faster rate than the other one not 569 00:29:48,926 --> 00:29:52,686 Speaker 3: so twins are always going to be more complicated. Birth 570 00:29:52,766 --> 00:29:55,326 Speaker 3: can be more complicated. You're more likely to have an 571 00:29:55,326 --> 00:29:58,366 Speaker 3: intervention like a Caesar or an instrumental birth. So we 572 00:29:58,446 --> 00:30:03,326 Speaker 3: don't want to increase people's complications. So the movement away 573 00:30:03,406 --> 00:30:06,766 Speaker 3: from putting back two embryos is very well established now 574 00:30:06,806 --> 00:30:10,286 Speaker 3: in Australia and we almost exclusively put back a single 575 00:30:10,286 --> 00:30:14,366 Speaker 3: embryo where we do IVF, but because we want to 576 00:30:14,446 --> 00:30:16,806 Speaker 3: know that the embryo we put back is a nice, 577 00:30:16,846 --> 00:30:20,606 Speaker 3: hearty embryo. We grow embryos on now till they're five 578 00:30:20,686 --> 00:30:23,606 Speaker 3: days old. Certain circumstances will put them back earlier, but 579 00:30:23,886 --> 00:30:26,006 Speaker 3: generally we'll put them back when the embryo is five 580 00:30:26,126 --> 00:30:29,646 Speaker 3: days post fertilization, and embryos at that stage, as I 581 00:30:29,726 --> 00:30:32,726 Speaker 3: mentioned earlier, are starting to form the placent of part 582 00:30:32,846 --> 00:30:36,486 Speaker 3: and the inncel mass and the innercel mass. In IVF 583 00:30:36,926 --> 00:30:39,486 Speaker 3: is a little bit more likely to split. And that 584 00:30:39,646 --> 00:30:41,846 Speaker 3: might be to do with the fact that we're culturing 585 00:30:42,126 --> 00:30:44,486 Speaker 3: embryos on it might be to do with the culture media, 586 00:30:44,566 --> 00:30:46,446 Speaker 3: it might be to do with other things that happened. 587 00:30:46,446 --> 00:30:51,206 Speaker 3: But the chance of having monochoreonic twins is increased slightly 588 00:30:51,286 --> 00:30:54,966 Speaker 3: with IVF, So even if we put back a single embryo, 589 00:30:55,246 --> 00:30:57,926 Speaker 3: there is a slightly increased chance with IVF that you're 590 00:30:57,966 --> 00:31:00,326 Speaker 3: going to end up with a twin pregnancy if you 591 00:31:00,446 --> 00:31:03,566 Speaker 3: did have a single embryo put back and you didn't 592 00:31:03,686 --> 00:31:07,046 Speaker 3: conceive a spontaneous pregnancy the same time, which can happen 593 00:31:07,126 --> 00:31:10,206 Speaker 3: as well. If you did put a single embryo back 594 00:31:10,206 --> 00:31:13,206 Speaker 3: and people come along with twins as long as they 595 00:31:13,206 --> 00:31:15,606 Speaker 3: didn't conceive a natural pregnancy at the same time, those 596 00:31:15,606 --> 00:31:18,206 Speaker 3: are going to be identical twins, because a single embryo 597 00:31:18,326 --> 00:31:22,206 Speaker 3: is not going to make non identical twins absolutely. IVF 598 00:31:22,286 --> 00:31:25,846 Speaker 3: does increase your risk of having monochoryonic twins. 599 00:31:29,726 --> 00:31:32,526 Speaker 1: Diary of a Birth was hosted by me Casanie Lukitch 600 00:31:32,526 --> 00:31:36,046 Speaker 1: with expert input from Dr bromin Divine. If you have 601 00:31:36,086 --> 00:31:39,206 Speaker 1: a birth story, we'd love to hear from you. Details 602 00:31:39,206 --> 00:31:42,326 Speaker 1: are in the show notes. This episode was produced by 603 00:31:42,406 --> 00:31:47,206 Speaker 1: Tina Mattalov and myself Casanie Lukitch, with audio production by Leoportus. 604 00:31:55,446 --> 00:31:58,726 Speaker 1: Mumma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. We 605 00:31:58,846 --> 00:32:02,166 Speaker 1: have recorded this podcast on the Gadigul people of the 606 00:32:02,246 --> 00:32:05,966 Speaker 1: Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their elders past 607 00:32:06,006 --> 00:32:09,646 Speaker 1: and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and 608 00:32:09,686 --> 00:32:11,246 Speaker 1: torrest Rate islander cultures.