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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mama Maya acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: Hello. I'm Stacy Hicks. I'm the editor of Mamma Mia

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Speaker 2: and I'm also the host of our new parenting podcast,

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Speaker 2: Parenting out Loud. And this summer, we're curating your listening

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Speaker 2: with a healthy dose of culture savvy conversations that parents

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Speaker 2: actually want. This holiday season, we're bringing you unmissable episodes

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Speaker 2: right here into your podcast playlist. It's your summer listening sorted.

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Speaker 2: And if you're looking for more to listen to, every

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Speaker 2: Muma Mia podcast is curating some are listening right across

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Speaker 2: the network, from pop culture to beauty to powerful interviews.

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Speaker 2: There's something for everyone. There's a link in the show notes.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Parenting out Loud. This is a podcast for

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Speaker 1: parents who don't always listen to parenting podcasts. It's the culture,

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Speaker 1: it's the trends, it's a zeitgeist, it's marbo, it's the vibe.

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Speaker 2: I'm monque Bolli, I'm Amelia Lestra and I love that

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Speaker 2: castle shout.

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Speaker 3: Out, and I am Stacy Higgs.

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Speaker 1: First up, thank you for all the ears on last

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Speaker 1: week's show, so many of you dming us people loving

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Speaker 1: it sick and heaps of non parents just here for it.

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Speaker 1: So we love that. And Ladies number two on the

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Speaker 1: Apple charts.

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Speaker 2: Whoop, I love that. That seems huge? Are we stars now?

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Speaker 3: I think we are.

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Speaker 1: We've made it fine Diary of a CEO, which feels

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Speaker 1: so validating because in twenty twenty five, parenting culture has

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Speaker 1: become like an intense startup.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yes, and both cultures lack sleep.

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Speaker 3: I feel that's true. Yeah, you're giving your all and

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Speaker 3: not getting a lot time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, both cultures relentless. Coming up on today's show, K

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Speaker 1: Pop Demon Hunters, you might have heard it rippling through

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Speaker 1: the culture. We're going to talk about why it's so huge.

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Speaker 2: Men parent or tracking apps are booming, But do children

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Speaker 2: have a right to privacy? I really want to get

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Speaker 2: into this sauny debate with you, and a man has

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Speaker 2: made a case for why we should be having kids young,

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Speaker 2: and he actually might convince you it's a good idea.

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Speaker 3: Maybe maybe we'll see.

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Speaker 1: But first, did you guys see Anne Hathaway gentle parent

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Speaker 1: the Paparazzi? I feel like this. I saw this video

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Speaker 1: on Instagram a few times. It's been viewed over sixty

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Speaker 1: million times. She was on the set of The Devil

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Speaker 1: Wears pra to Too, which has had a lot of

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Speaker 1: paparazzi interest, like there's things being leaked from set, there's

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Speaker 1: lots of images coming out. But on this particular day,

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Speaker 1: the paparazzi pack were bickering and she walked over. She

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Speaker 1: had this big smile and just completely diffuse the situation.

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Speaker 2: You're going to have to give us like a reenactment

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Speaker 2: mons like what was she doing? Calm zen Master.

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Speaker 1: We can't play this on the show because Muma Mia

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Speaker 1: does not endorse paparazzi shots or videos. So I'm going

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Speaker 1: to explain it to you instead. She walks over to the pack.

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Speaker 1: She has an open palm, She has a very calm

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Speaker 1: and present stance, and she says, you guys have got

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Speaker 1: to relax. There are children on set today. Does everybody

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Speaker 1: know there are children on set? So everyone's going to relax.

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Speaker 1: We're going to have a very nice day because we

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Speaker 1: have children. It was very calm, very demure, very Okay,

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Speaker 1: everyone's having some feelings right now, but this is the boundary.

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Speaker 1: And it was so fantastic. I tried it on my

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Speaker 1: own kids as well today, like it worked. It worked

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Speaker 1: on my four year old. It also worked on the paparazzi.

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Speaker 1: They all sort of diffused and said, oh, yes, thank you, ma'am.

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Speaker 2: I feel like Anne Hathaway was born to gentle parents.

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Speaker 2: First of all, she has an amazing voice. Second of all,

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Speaker 2: I remember reading an interview with her when her kids

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Speaker 2: were a little younger, and she said that she had

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Speaker 2: stopped drinking because she found that she was more present

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Speaker 2: with them during the week, in particular when she sort

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Speaker 2: of just ruled out drinking. So every time I have

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Speaker 2: a glass of wine on a weeknight, I think of

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Speaker 2: Anne Hathaway and how she is present and I am

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Speaker 2: not okay and another mum doing it right. This week,

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Speaker 2: I need to talk about Queen Mary. So she's just

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Speaker 2: given us all the masterclass in how to react when

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Speaker 2: your kids do. She shit so our very own tazzyborn

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Speaker 2: Queen of Denmark. She was at this public engagement and

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Speaker 2: a reporter asked her what she thought of her daughter

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Speaker 2: Isabella's outfit when she attended.

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Speaker 3: Have you seen this? Remember this?

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Speaker 1: The princess wore a T shirt that had something rude on.

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Speaker 3: It right, Yes, it was quite rude.

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Speaker 2: So it loosely translates to f tim yesterday with an

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Speaker 2: arrow pointing to the right kind of light. Those shirts

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Speaker 2: from the nineties that said I'm with stupid and then pointed.

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Speaker 3: To the right of view.

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Speaker 2: I would be so worried wearing that T shirt that

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Speaker 2: like on the bus.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, or that someone inappropriate walks up like your brother

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Speaker 3: or your dad walks up next to you. Very risky shirt.

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Speaker 2: But for context, it's lyrics from the band that she

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Speaker 2: was watching at the festival. And so this reporter asked

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Speaker 2: what did you think of this? And Queen Mary gave

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Speaker 2: the most perfect response in Danish. So I have studied

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Speaker 2: this clip with forensic levels of investigation. The smile on

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Speaker 2: her face doesn't crack, it doesn't break even for a second.

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Speaker 2: She just does a slight raise of the eyebrows, very

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Speaker 2: demure and just says my first thought was are you

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Speaker 2: completely confused?

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Speaker 1: Ha ha.

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Speaker 3: But let's just put it this way.

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Speaker 2: Some decisions are better than others. Isn't that a great response?

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Speaker 2: Like I feel like this was the perfect way of

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Speaker 2: saying I don't agree with it, but she can do

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Speaker 2: what she wants and I'm not going to put her

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Speaker 2: down in front of you.

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Speaker 3: I loved it.

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Speaker 1: What do you think imagine being a royal and having

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Speaker 1: the balls to wear a T shirt that's got the

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Speaker 1: F word on it? Like, are you okay, Isabella? Like

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Speaker 1: do you put any weight behind birth order impact on personality?

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Speaker 1: So if you think about Isabella, Princess Isabella Henriette to Ingridmuggaree,

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Speaker 1: she's the middle child. Her older brother is first in

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Speaker 1: line to the throne, so he's going to be king,

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Speaker 1: and her younger siblings are twins, right, so it's attention

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Speaker 1: on him, attention on them. Is this just like the

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Speaker 1: middle child going attention to ma'am?

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Speaker 2: And she's the Prince Harry in the birth order when

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Speaker 2: you think about it, like she's the second in line

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Speaker 2: to the throne, she's the Prince Harry equivalent of Denmark.

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Speaker 2: So I feel like she can be a bit more

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Speaker 2: cheeky with her behavior. And she is eighteen, she's an adult.

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Speaker 1: She also has form in the area of breaking protocol.

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Speaker 1: So you might remember she had an official portrait where

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Speaker 1: she was wearing this orange gown and this teal sash.

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Speaker 1: She had the tiara, the turquoise earrings and she was

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Speaker 1: holding her phone.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow.

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Speaker 1: She was kind of the first royal to do so,

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Speaker 1: and it was apparently Mary our Mary's idea, like this

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Speaker 1: intentionally modern touch to like symbolize a modern princess and

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Speaker 1: kind of a nod to her generation. But what's interesting

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Speaker 1: is the Danes mostly love it. Like this TV presenter

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Speaker 1: Jim Lingfield I saw this on Facebook. He said, I

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Speaker 1: love that our royal youngsters also have personality and courage

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Speaker 1: and they don't follow the neat pleated flow. The time

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Speaker 1: of the ladies in the hat is over. Princess Isabella

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Speaker 1: is in. People are getting around it.

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Speaker 2: They're such a modern, cool royal family. I feel like

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Speaker 2: they're rode bikes everywhere. It's so different to the British

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Speaker 2: royal family totally. And I think you can actually buy

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Speaker 2: this shirt online, so we can drop a link in

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Speaker 2: the show notes if anyone owns.

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Speaker 3: A T shirt that says FtM yesterday, it's available.

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Speaker 1: Oh to be eighteen, to not have the frontal lobe

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Speaker 1: fully developed. I love it. It feels like the whole

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Speaker 1: world is talking about K pop dingmon Hunters. It's not

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Speaker 1: a great name, is it. Let's just get that out

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Speaker 1: of the way. It feels like a placeholder name. It

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Speaker 1: feels like they were thinking, this is just the working title,

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Speaker 1: and they were like, you know what, let's just call

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Speaker 1: it this. This is just what it is.

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Speaker 2: I kept seeing it on Netflix. I think it came

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Speaker 2: out in June, and I kept seeing it pushed on me.

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Speaker 2: I was like, this sounds ridiculous. I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: watch it. But then one day my children had been

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Speaker 2: possessed by K pop demon Hunters. They chose to watch

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Speaker 2: it by themselves, and now it's all we listen to.

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Speaker 1: So this little animated movie has completely captured the attention

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Speaker 1: of kids the world over and adults too. It's now

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Speaker 1: Netflix's most watched movie ever wow, two hundred and thirty

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Speaker 1: six million views. And the soundtracks made history too. It's

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Speaker 1: the first movie soundtrack to have four simultaneous top ten

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Speaker 1: hits on the Billboard Top one hundred and Golden has

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Speaker 1: hit number one. So if you're thinking I have seen this,

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Speaker 1: I haven't clicked on it. It looks horrid on Netflix.

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Speaker 1: It's a terrible placeholder name. But should I be worried

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Speaker 1: if my kids are obsessed with this? The answer is,

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Speaker 1: don't worry. This is excellent, and I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about why top line. It follows a fictional K pop

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Speaker 1: girl group now k pop stands for Korean pop, and

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Speaker 1: they're also Demon Hunters. It's written and directed by Maggie Kang.

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Speaker 1: It's about these three girls where demons lurk everywhere, but

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Speaker 1: their music protects the world from the demons of Korean folklore.

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Speaker 1: So in a sentence, it's basically girl pop group save

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Speaker 1: the world. This movie goes so hard and it is

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Speaker 1: so good. Like in the first eight minutes I thought,

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Speaker 1: what is this? I cannot look away and it's not

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Speaker 1: what I thought it would be at all, and I'm

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Speaker 1: obsessed with that. Have you guys seen it so good?

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Speaker 2: I hadn't, and you two convinced me to watch this,

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Speaker 2: And now the songs are on repeat in my head

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Speaker 2: like I can't get it out. It's the catchiest ear whem.

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Speaker 2: I'm happy it's there. It's not even annoying me that

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Speaker 2: these songs are in my head. It's absolutely brilliant.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fun. It's funny, it's really tightly written, it's

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Speaker 1: beautiful to watch. The music is just all bangers. But

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Speaker 1: beyond that, I want to talk about the messages in it,

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Speaker 1: because I think it's really solid, and I think Disney

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Speaker 1: would be looking at this and thinking, shit, our rain

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Speaker 1: is over. They would be sitting around the bardroom, head

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Speaker 1: in hands, I reckon. So firstly, it's very girl power,

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Speaker 1: So the girls are at the center of this instead

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Speaker 1: of being pass and pretty pop idols, they're warriors and

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Speaker 1: it's their voices that are the weapons. So that's doing

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Speaker 1: two interesting things. Firstly, it centers art and music as

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Speaker 1: the thing that will save us, like music's going to

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Speaker 1: save us, which I think is a mayor is a

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Speaker 1: really good message right now for the world. And secondly,

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Speaker 1: it's flipping the script on female pop stars, like this

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Speaker 1: thing that's often commodified, their voices actually is what gives

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Speaker 1: this group power. It's really heavily about friendship. So these

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Speaker 1: three girls are all each other's anchors. There's no male

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Speaker 1: savior rushing in, and it's got all these amazing girlhood

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Speaker 1: coded moments like goofy, messy, really silly energy and Maggie Kang,

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Speaker 1: the director, said in Glamour that she grew up watching

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Speaker 1: Disney princesses and thought that's not me. I'm goofy and

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Speaker 1: I'm awkward and I'm gross sometimes, and she wanted to

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Speaker 1: put that version of girlhood on screen. Did you guys

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Speaker 1: notice that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a big thing that stuck out to me, Like,

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Speaker 2: I know, you kind of sold this to me as

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Speaker 2: this is a great show to watch with your kids.

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Speaker 2: But my overriding thought when I was watching it is

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Speaker 2: this isn't for the kids. This is for the women

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Speaker 2: who love girl groups and want to relive that fandom

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Speaker 2: and girlhood, and it just happens to be done in

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Speaker 2: a format that your kids will put up. Did you

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Speaker 2: think it was inappropriate for kids or more just that

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Speaker 2: kids wouldn't get as much out of it. I just

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Speaker 2: feel like kids wouldn't get as much out of it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the demons, depending on your kid's age, probably

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Speaker 2: might freak them out a little bit. But I think, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's no scarier than in Lying King, him

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Speaker 2: falling off the rock, or the scary step mother Entangled. Like,

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Speaker 2: there's always dark themes in kids shows, so I could

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Speaker 2: definitely overlook that. I definitely though, felt like it was

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Speaker 2: more for us. I felt like it was very much

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Speaker 2: a movie for us. Here's what I loved about it.

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Speaker 2: When I was growing up, I was not even aware

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Speaker 2: of South Korea. I consumed almost exclusively American content, with

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Speaker 2: a little bit of British and a tiny bit of

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Speaker 2: Australian content sprinkled in. I just think it's so brilliant

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Speaker 2: that the first big cultural touchstone for Generation Alpha is

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Speaker 2: a non Western.

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Speaker 3: Creation, which is this movie.

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Speaker 2: And there's Korean language in the songs, as I discovered

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Speaker 2: because my kids wanted to write out the lyrics to them,

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Speaker 2: and then we realized there's a bunch of Korean lyrics

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Speaker 2: in them. There are Korean locations, there's nods to Korean myths.

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Speaker 2: Of course, the very plot is sort of premised on

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Speaker 2: the idea of Korean demons and folklore. It's part of

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Speaker 2: this wave of Korean culture which is not as hall You,

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Speaker 2: which has sort of taken over the world in recent years.

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Speaker 2: But I love that this is the first big moment

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Speaker 2: for this generation and it's not Western. I found it

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Speaker 2: really interesting to learn that even though the characters speak English,

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Speaker 2: their mouth movements actually match or reflect Korean pronunciation. So

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Speaker 2: little details like that the producer and the filmmakers really

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Speaker 2: wanted to get across an authentic picture of Korean culture.

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Speaker 2: Today and the ultimate message of reclaiming your identity and

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Speaker 2: being true to yourself. It feels almost subversive right now

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Speaker 2: in a political environment both in Australia and the US

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Speaker 2: and in other Western countries where that whole idea of immigration, pluralism,

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Speaker 2: multiculturalism is under attap from some sectors. And Muma MIA's

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Speaker 2: entertainment writer Chelsea Hoy she loved this movie. She was

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Speaker 2: a very early adopter of this movie and he's a

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Speaker 2: big fan of the k pop craze and said that

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Speaker 2: it does feel very true to that genre while bringing

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Speaker 2: in this whole other group of people now that get

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Speaker 2: to enjoy that. And she wrote for the site, we

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Speaker 2: can link the story in our show notes. But bringing

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Speaker 2: it back to what you said about female friendship Monds,

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Speaker 2: she said that that was what felt like the best

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Speaker 2: part of this film was that it perfectly captures friendship

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Speaker 2: in all its chaotic glory. She said, the silliness, the

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Speaker 2: unhinged chaos, it's so girlhood coded. This is exactly how

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Speaker 2: close friends should interact. It's messy, supportive, ridiculous, and fiercely loyal,

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Speaker 2: all at the same time. Each girl has her own struggles, dreams, growth,

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Speaker 2: arc and the film takes time to develop them all properly,

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Speaker 2: and that the banter feels natural and lived in, so

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Speaker 2: their conflicts feel real, but their bond feels very unbreakable.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's an excellent message for our girls

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Speaker 2: to be growing up with well and our boys. I

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Speaker 2: love the fact that for boys and girls, this is

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Speaker 2: a vital window when they are young to kind of

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Speaker 2: shape their perceptions of the world and what relationships are.

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Speaker 2: And I've noticed that when boys watch that movie too,

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Speaker 2: it's not centering a heterosexual romance. It's centering friendship. And

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Speaker 2: that's just as powerful a message for boys to receive

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Speaker 2: as for girls. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's very emotionally intelligent. Like I was comparing it

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Speaker 1: to what we grew up with when we were kids,

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Speaker 1: and it's sort of we had the Goonies, the Sandlot Kids,

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Speaker 1: Lion King, I guess was really big beating the Beast,

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Speaker 1: which is super problematic.

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Speaker 2: Aladdin super problematic, a lot of like mediation of other.

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Speaker 1: Cultures and all centered on me. Here's the small problem

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Speaker 1: with it is that the men actually don't come off

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Speaker 1: very well in this movie. So Mark Lee wrote in

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Speaker 1: Northwest Asian Weekly that once again Asian men get thrown

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Speaker 1: under the bus, and he was arguing that at first glance,

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Speaker 1: this looks like a win for Asian representation, Like the

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Speaker 1: women are very stylish and confident and heroic, but the

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Speaker 1: men in this film are either villains or they're passive

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Speaker 1: like the Sarja boys. They don't speak. None of them

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Speaker 1: have really a speaking role, so they're completely silenced, or

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Speaker 1: they're just playing useless like their manager that the girls have.

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Speaker 1: The other main male character is basically like a buffoon,

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Speaker 1: so it does leave the guys with almost nothing. But

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about childhood movies we had it. I

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Speaker 1: was arguing with my sister about this. She was saying,

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Speaker 1: don't worry about the men, like they've had their time

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Speaker 1: in the sun. If you think about the childhood movies

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Speaker 1: we had, it was Goonies, All Boys, sand Lot Kids Boys,

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Speaker 1: Lion King, a big boy dies and a little boy

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Speaker 1: takes over, you know, and a weird evil boy uncle

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Speaker 1: Beauty and the Beast. Like the smart girl marries her

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Speaker 1: captor to save her dad. So it's nice to see

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Speaker 1: this tide turning in kids pop culture towards more female centric,

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Speaker 1: smart movies.

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Speaker 2: I can see that critique though, because in cell culture

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Speaker 2: is really a big thing in Korea too, and this

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Speaker 2: idea of young men feeling left behind as young women

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Speaker 2: are empowered and are hitting educational goals and career goals

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Speaker 2: in a way that they're kind of lapping men is

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Speaker 2: just as big an issue there as it is in

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Speaker 2: Western cultures. So I think that's an important perspective to

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Speaker 2: bring in. I guess the other thing that I think

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Speaker 2: kids are really connecting with here, which we haven't yet

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Speaker 2: touched on, is the way that it blurs the lines

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Speaker 2: between the digital and virtual world and real world in

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Speaker 2: a way that feels so on point and so relevant

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Speaker 2: for Generation Alpha. They are more more than digital natives.

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Speaker 2: Their world is shaped by the Internet and by online culture,

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Speaker 2: and this movie just blurs those boundaries in such a

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Speaker 2: sort of neat and clever way. Think about the way

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Speaker 2: on the end credits, this isn't a spoiler. You see

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Speaker 2: the women who are actually doing the singing in the

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Speaker 2: studio recording the songs, so you get reminded that this

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Speaker 2: is the real world. There is also the virtual that

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Speaker 2: you've been watching in the movie, and the two of them,

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Speaker 2: it's really hard to tell where one ends and the

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Speaker 2: other begins. One interesting culturalism for that is that South

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Speaker 2: Korea got internet in a widespread way a lot earlier

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Speaker 2: than the rest of the world. I found out that

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Speaker 2: broadband was delivered there back in twenty ten to basically

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Speaker 2: all houses, and so I think that's part of the

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Speaker 2: reason why they're able to sort of tap into a

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Speaker 2: digital native culture in such a convincing way for young kids.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's quite TikTok coded as well, so in the

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Speaker 1: way that Stacy said before that this is a movie

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Speaker 1: for really for adults. It does that beautiful thing where

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Speaker 1: it toes the line between youth culture and adult themes.

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Speaker 1: So in the first few minutes we meet the girls,

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Speaker 1: they're on their private jet and they're having this big

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Speaker 1: feast of food, and that feels TikTok coded to me,

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Speaker 1: because there is this subculture on TikTok of I think

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Speaker 1: it's called muckbang, where people buy Korean food and then

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Speaker 1: film themselves eating it, And so I think there's all

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Speaker 1: these like digital moments throughout the show that kids would

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Speaker 1: connect with in a way that people who don't live

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Speaker 1: their life on TikTok probably wouldn't. But the other thing

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Speaker 1: that really stood out to me was how inclusive this

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Speaker 1: show was. So the fans of this girl group, they're

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Speaker 1: not just silly, screaming teenage girls. It's everyone. You see

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Speaker 1: all ages, all body types, all genders. You see bloky

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Speaker 1: men crying, you see elderly women with their little fan clubs. Zoe,

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Speaker 1: one of the characters, talks about the colors in her

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Speaker 1: head and taking off her mask, which some people have

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Speaker 1: said is coded as she's neurodivergent, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: fans have read roomy. The main character is queer. Vibal

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Speaker 1: boy band has pink hair and sort of fem looking

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Speaker 1: soft men. So the whole world of it is very

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Speaker 1: fluid and very inclusive.

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Speaker 2: That's a great point, and it makes me reflect on

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Speaker 2: the fact that, you know, there are all sorts of

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Speaker 2: downsides to not having a monoculture anymore, like the fact

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Speaker 2: that everyone's listening to their own music, everyone's watching their

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Speaker 2: own TikTok algorithm. But every now and then something hits

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Speaker 2: that the whole world enjoys, and that brings us back

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Speaker 2: to the monoculture that we used to have. And I've

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Speaker 2: found that I'm reconnecting with friends who I've sort of

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Speaker 2: fallen out of touch with because our kids are sharing

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Speaker 2: videos of themselves dancing to Golden and it's just so

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Speaker 2: nice for the whole world at this kind of moment

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Speaker 2: to be able to enjoy the same thing at the

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Speaker 2: same time. Yeah. Yeah, my only criticism when Monsie mentioned

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Speaker 2: about the inclusiveness, I think that was great from the

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Speaker 2: fan perspective. But my only thing that bugged me was

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Speaker 2: that the three main girl band members are all incredibly

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Speaker 2: thin and active, and when they're showing other body types

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Speaker 2: in the movie, but they're not showing them on them.

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Speaker 2: That was the only thing where I went, Oh, when

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Speaker 2: they're talking about consuming ten thousand calories before they go

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Speaker 2: on stage, I wish that that hadn't been part of it,

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Speaker 2: because you kind of.

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Speaker 3: Don't want that to be the focus.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, I can't argue with that. I think that's

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Speaker 1: a really valid point though. I was listening to a

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Speaker 1: podcast with Jayha Kim. She studies kpop, and she was

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Speaker 1: talking about how K pop is this extremely manufactured and

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Speaker 1: controlled machine, and how women in K pop have to

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Speaker 1: diet like they're really controlled. They have to look a

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Speaker 1: certain way. So I guess in some sense it's true

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Speaker 1: to the K pop culture. But yeah, I do agree.

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Speaker 1: Skinny hot girls save in the world.

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Speaker 2: And it's even at the point, as you say about

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Speaker 2: the dancers from the show. Novak Djokovic even when you

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Speaker 2: want to match. Last week did a little dance from

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Speaker 2: one of the songs, and I said, he's lovable.

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Speaker 3: Thing he's ever do, isn't it? I know That's what

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Speaker 3: I thought. I was like, do I like now?

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Speaker 2: He did one of the dancers in tribute to his daughter.

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Speaker 2: He said, she's been teaching me how to do these

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Speaker 2: dancers from K pop Demon Hunters, So it's at that level,

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Speaker 2: like it's just permeated the culture in such a massive way,

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Speaker 2: which is great to say.

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Speaker 3: Everyone can enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: The demons are funny. They're not scary. If you're thinking, Arna,

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Speaker 1: oh my kid's watching demons, they're quite funny. They poke

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Speaker 1: fun at themselves like it's a ten out of ten

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Speaker 1: for me. I loved it.

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Speaker 2: There are a lot of questions that parents these days

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Speaker 2: are having to ask themselves and answer that previous generations

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Speaker 2: of parents did not have to deal with. One of

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Speaker 2: those questions, a really, really tricky one to answer is

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Speaker 2: whether or not she U is a tracking app on

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Speaker 2: your kids. Now Mon's and Stacy, you're probably not yet

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Speaker 2: at the stage where you're thinking about that. I am

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Speaker 2: sort of approaching that stage, and to be honest, I

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Speaker 2: just don't know what I'm going to do.

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00:22:03,109 --> 00:22:04,709
Speaker 3: But lots and lots.

427
00:22:04,389 --> 00:22:07,709
Speaker 2: Of parents have asked this question and decided yes, they

428
00:22:07,829 --> 00:22:10,509
Speaker 2: do want to know where their children are, and there

429
00:22:10,509 --> 00:22:13,509
Speaker 2: are lots of reasons why they do that. For instance,

430
00:22:13,749 --> 00:22:17,269
Speaker 2: experts say that for parents of children with autism, a

431
00:22:17,389 --> 00:22:20,869
Speaker 2: tracking app can be really helpful, particularly when wandering off

432
00:22:21,069 --> 00:22:23,869
Speaker 2: is common. There are lots of reasons why they do it.

433
00:22:24,109 --> 00:22:27,669
Speaker 2: But we don't yet really understand what the effects of

434
00:22:27,869 --> 00:22:30,949
Speaker 2: using these tracking apps will be on the children who

435
00:22:30,949 --> 00:22:34,989
Speaker 2: are constantly surveyed by them. So we have some clues

436
00:22:35,149 --> 00:22:38,429
Speaker 2: that are emerging. I should say they've become really ubiquitous.

437
00:22:38,669 --> 00:22:40,989
Speaker 2: One of the most popular apps, Life three sixty, is

438
00:22:41,029 --> 00:22:43,389
Speaker 2: now on fourteen percent of all phones in the US.

439
00:22:43,829 --> 00:22:46,189
Speaker 1: What really, Yeah, it's.

440
00:22:45,989 --> 00:22:49,509
Speaker 2: Crazy right, And in Australia one in five parents attracting

441
00:22:49,509 --> 00:22:51,949
Speaker 2: their children, whether it's through an air tag or Life

442
00:22:51,989 --> 00:22:55,909
Speaker 2: three sixty or another app. We've got some stats coming

443
00:22:55,909 --> 00:22:58,949
Speaker 2: out about what it's doing to kids to feel constantly surveyed.

444
00:22:59,469 --> 00:23:03,549
Speaker 2: A recent survey that Australia's e Safety Commissioner did looked

445
00:23:03,669 --> 00:23:07,829
Speaker 2: at the effects on young people's attitudes to relationships and

446
00:23:07,869 --> 00:23:10,829
Speaker 2: specifically intimate relationships, and they just govered that a full

447
00:23:10,829 --> 00:23:13,989
Speaker 2: twenty percent of eighteen to twenty four year olds think

448
00:23:14,709 --> 00:23:18,469
Speaker 2: that it's reasonable to track the location of their intimate partners.

449
00:23:18,749 --> 00:23:21,149
Speaker 2: That's higher than any other age group. And remember this

450
00:23:21,229 --> 00:23:24,549
Speaker 2: is the age group that came of age being trapped

451
00:23:24,549 --> 00:23:27,789
Speaker 2: by their parents. It's alarming. I think I'm going to

452
00:23:27,829 --> 00:23:29,829
Speaker 2: put my cards on the table here. I haven't decided

453
00:23:29,869 --> 00:23:32,229
Speaker 2: yet what to do about the tracking apps. There are

454
00:23:32,429 --> 00:23:36,989
Speaker 2: unforeseen consequences of children going up knowing that their parents

455
00:23:37,269 --> 00:23:40,709
Speaker 2: know exactly where they are at all times. And it's

456
00:23:40,749 --> 00:23:44,389
Speaker 2: a real gray area and it raises lots of uncomfortable questions.

457
00:23:44,869 --> 00:23:48,229
Speaker 2: Do children are they entitled to privacy? Do we need

458
00:23:48,269 --> 00:23:50,669
Speaker 2: to get their consent to use these apps? What does

459
00:23:50,709 --> 00:23:53,349
Speaker 2: it mean to link surveillance and love in this way?

460
00:23:53,629 --> 00:23:56,189
Speaker 2: Is this just the price of safety these days? You know,

461
00:23:56,269 --> 00:23:58,829
Speaker 2: as I was thinking about this, I came across a

462
00:23:58,829 --> 00:24:02,349
Speaker 2: great quote from Tina Fay about photoshop. She said, and

463
00:24:02,389 --> 00:24:03,869
Speaker 2: I want to get it right because she's so clever.

464
00:24:04,069 --> 00:24:07,269
Speaker 2: It is an appalling and tragic reflection on the moral

465
00:24:07,309 --> 00:24:09,989
Speaker 2: decay of our society unless I need it, in which

466
00:24:10,349 --> 00:24:13,349
Speaker 2: everybody be cool. I suspect that's where I'm going to

467
00:24:13,429 --> 00:24:15,749
Speaker 2: land on the whole tracking apps thing, but I also

468
00:24:15,789 --> 00:24:19,589
Speaker 2: wanted to intellectualize it and overthink it first. So Stacy,

469
00:24:19,669 --> 00:24:21,269
Speaker 2: what do you think do you think you'll use a

470
00:24:21,309 --> 00:24:24,469
Speaker 2: tracking app? Yeah? Of course I bloody will. Like I

471
00:24:24,469 --> 00:24:27,469
Speaker 2: didn't even think this was a question. Everybody's doing that now.

472
00:24:27,549 --> 00:24:30,749
Speaker 2: I have friends who track their kids, track their husbands,

473
00:24:30,789 --> 00:24:32,669
Speaker 2: track their son's girlfriend.

474
00:24:32,869 --> 00:24:34,469
Speaker 3: Like it's all very normal now.

475
00:24:34,509 --> 00:24:36,589
Speaker 2: And our kids are growing up in that generation where

476
00:24:36,949 --> 00:24:39,669
Speaker 2: they're tracking their friends even on Snapchat. They're used to

477
00:24:39,709 --> 00:24:41,829
Speaker 2: sharing that. They're not used to the level of privacy

478
00:24:41,829 --> 00:24:43,669
Speaker 2: that we had. So I very much feel that this

479
00:24:43,709 --> 00:24:45,829
Speaker 2: is going to be the norm going forward. I must

480
00:24:45,829 --> 00:24:48,109
Speaker 2: admit it's something that I think, well, yeah, that probably

481
00:24:48,109 --> 00:24:51,389
Speaker 2: would make me feel better knowing where she is. But

482
00:24:52,109 --> 00:24:55,109
Speaker 2: I kind of wanted to interrogate, like, what's our fear, Like,

483
00:24:55,149 --> 00:24:58,549
Speaker 2: what's our fear around not knowing their every move? And

484
00:24:58,589 --> 00:25:00,149
Speaker 2: I guess the one that's at the top of the

485
00:25:00,189 --> 00:25:02,789
Speaker 2: list I think you'd probably both agree is that they'll

486
00:25:02,789 --> 00:25:05,469
Speaker 2: get taken like that's the thing you're worried about, is

487
00:25:05,509 --> 00:25:08,069
Speaker 2: that they'll get taken or they're a missing person and

488
00:25:08,109 --> 00:25:09,909
Speaker 2: you don't know where they are. And so I looked

489
00:25:09,949 --> 00:25:13,429
Speaker 2: in to that and the stats of that, and it's

490
00:25:13,469 --> 00:25:17,429
Speaker 2: so minuscule compared to our population. Like Dennis Moriarty wrote

491
00:25:17,789 --> 00:25:21,349
Speaker 2: this piece where he quoted the National Missing Person's Coordination Center,

492
00:25:21,669 --> 00:25:24,229
Speaker 2: and they track the number of missing child cases throughout

493
00:25:24,229 --> 00:25:26,909
Speaker 2: the decades. So when we're looking back at the seventies,

494
00:25:26,949 --> 00:25:30,149
Speaker 2: it was eighteen. In the eighties, it was eleven children,

495
00:25:30,629 --> 00:25:33,549
Speaker 2: nineties fifteen, and then it drops way down four in

496
00:25:33,589 --> 00:25:36,109
Speaker 2: the two thousands and five in the twenty ten. Do

497
00:25:36,229 --> 00:25:38,589
Speaker 2: they know why there's been such a drop? I mean,

498
00:25:38,629 --> 00:25:40,949
Speaker 2: those are small numbers to begin with, small numbers when

499
00:25:40,949 --> 00:25:43,189
Speaker 2: you consider like the growth of people that we've had

500
00:25:43,229 --> 00:25:45,949
Speaker 2: in the country as well. Not to say that we

501
00:25:45,989 --> 00:25:48,469
Speaker 2: ever want that to be happening to any child, but

502
00:25:48,589 --> 00:25:51,949
Speaker 2: the world is by and large a safer place now

503
00:25:52,029 --> 00:25:54,069
Speaker 2: than it was then. But I wonder whether it's a

504
00:25:54,149 --> 00:25:56,669
Speaker 2: chicken and eck, it's a bit safer now because we

505
00:25:56,749 --> 00:25:59,589
Speaker 2: have the technology to be able to know where everyone is.

506
00:26:00,229 --> 00:26:01,549
Speaker 3: What do you think mons.

507
00:26:02,629 --> 00:26:09,189
Speaker 1: Safety doesn't sell product, Stacy, Yeah, you said the magic

508
00:26:09,229 --> 00:26:14,589
Speaker 1: word just before fear. And these companies they don't care

509
00:26:14,989 --> 00:26:19,749
Speaker 1: about your kids. They care about their shareholders. Life three

510
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:23,989
Speaker 1: sixty is a tech company and they have built a

511
00:26:24,069 --> 00:26:30,749
Speaker 1: product on anxious millennial parents, on catastrophizing situations and marketing

512
00:26:30,829 --> 00:26:34,669
Speaker 1: with fear. Have you seen the ad for this product?

513
00:26:34,709 --> 00:26:39,069
Speaker 1: Cop this? You are my whole wide world, my heart,

514
00:26:39,549 --> 00:26:41,549
Speaker 1: my joy, my baby girl.

515
00:26:42,469 --> 00:26:47,229
Speaker 2: You'll never know how much I love you when you're gone.

516
00:26:47,389 --> 00:26:49,909
Speaker 1: I just think of you dying.

517
00:26:51,349 --> 00:26:51,669
Speaker 2: Mom.

518
00:26:51,789 --> 00:26:53,629
Speaker 3: What every time you leave my.

519
00:26:53,629 --> 00:26:55,389
Speaker 1: Safe when you drive a school or stay out of night.

520
00:26:55,549 --> 00:26:56,989
Speaker 1: This is where I go.

521
00:26:57,469 --> 00:27:00,029
Speaker 3: Out to the million waits ins I my brain and.

522
00:26:59,949 --> 00:27:02,269
Speaker 1: What you could die at any given time.

523
00:27:03,829 --> 00:27:06,389
Speaker 3: That's de range. That does make me very anxious.

524
00:27:07,029 --> 00:27:08,989
Speaker 1: When you go to marketing school, you know what they say,

525
00:27:09,189 --> 00:27:13,469
Speaker 1: They say like marketing one oh one. Fear based marketing

526
00:27:13,789 --> 00:27:16,949
Speaker 1: works because it hits the oldest part of our brain,

527
00:27:17,069 --> 00:27:21,109
Speaker 1: like the survival instinct. And for parents, the stakes are

528
00:27:21,149 --> 00:27:24,749
Speaker 1: really high because you're talking about your children. So I

529
00:27:24,869 --> 00:27:27,509
Speaker 1: just think we need to take a zoom back and go.

530
00:27:27,909 --> 00:27:31,269
Speaker 1: Are they just exploiting a fear that we have that

531
00:27:31,429 --> 00:27:34,909
Speaker 1: doesn't exist, Stacy? Because as you say, the data shows

532
00:27:35,029 --> 00:27:38,429
Speaker 1: that we actually are living quite in safe times, particularly

533
00:27:38,469 --> 00:27:42,549
Speaker 1: in Australia. Yeah, notwithstanding your point about autism and about

534
00:27:42,589 --> 00:27:46,029
Speaker 1: some parents really needing this for certain reasons. But what

535
00:27:46,149 --> 00:27:50,509
Speaker 1: I think is really interesting is what the experts are

536
00:27:50,549 --> 00:27:54,109
Speaker 1: saying about this. I've been reading The Anxious Generation by

537
00:27:54,389 --> 00:27:57,109
Speaker 1: Jonathan Height. He wrote this best selling book. Lots of

538
00:27:57,109 --> 00:28:00,269
Speaker 1: people are talking about it, and he calls this phenomenon

539
00:28:00,829 --> 00:28:04,509
Speaker 1: safety ism, and he says the research around this is

540
00:28:04,549 --> 00:28:10,349
Speaker 1: really consistent, like hovering, tracking doesn't reduce anxiety. It actually

541
00:28:10,389 --> 00:28:13,669
Speaker 1: makes kids and parents more anxious, and you see it

542
00:28:13,709 --> 00:28:17,229
Speaker 1: in the data everywhere. So Deacon University found that Australian

543
00:28:17,269 --> 00:28:20,549
Speaker 1: parents are the most risk averse in the world. Four

544
00:28:20,629 --> 00:28:23,589
Speaker 1: out of five won't let their kids do risky things.

545
00:28:24,229 --> 00:28:26,789
Speaker 1: There was this University of Michigan study that found that

546
00:28:26,949 --> 00:28:29,789
Speaker 1: half of parents won't even let their tween walk to

547
00:28:29,829 --> 00:28:32,949
Speaker 1: a friend's house or go to another aisle in the supermarket,

548
00:28:33,189 --> 00:28:35,269
Speaker 1: like parents will not let their kids go to Aisle

549
00:28:35,309 --> 00:28:37,829
Speaker 1: three to collect a can of beans. And what this

550
00:28:38,029 --> 00:28:41,989
Speaker 1: is doing is making kids depressed and anxious more than

551
00:28:42,069 --> 00:28:45,269
Speaker 1: ever and parents too. And so the experts are saying

552
00:28:45,549 --> 00:28:50,069
Speaker 1: the solution to this anxious generation is not tracking them

553
00:28:50,189 --> 00:28:52,749
Speaker 1: or texting them. You have to let them go into

554
00:28:52,789 --> 00:28:55,509
Speaker 1: the big wide world. And when we stop children taking

555
00:28:55,509 --> 00:28:58,749
Speaker 1: any risks, we actually block them with this safetyism. We

556
00:28:58,869 --> 00:29:03,029
Speaker 1: block them from overcoming anxiety, managing risk, learning to be

557
00:29:03,109 --> 00:29:06,349
Speaker 1: self governing like, all of which are essential skills to

558
00:29:06,429 --> 00:29:07,389
Speaker 1: becoming an adult.

559
00:29:07,429 --> 00:29:10,509
Speaker 2: The other thing that Hite says is that we have

560
00:29:10,669 --> 00:29:13,269
Speaker 2: set up a division between the real world and the

561
00:29:13,269 --> 00:29:15,789
Speaker 2: online world that says that the real world is more

562
00:29:15,869 --> 00:29:19,149
Speaker 2: dangerous than the online world, and kids get a lesson

563
00:29:19,189 --> 00:29:21,749
Speaker 2: from this. He says that they can retreat into their

564
00:29:21,789 --> 00:29:25,229
Speaker 2: phones where they're not monitored and where they can roam freely,

565
00:29:25,629 --> 00:29:28,909
Speaker 2: and that world is actually more dangerous than the real

566
00:29:28,949 --> 00:29:31,549
Speaker 2: world that we're monitoring them in. So I know it

567
00:29:31,549 --> 00:29:33,829
Speaker 2: starts to feel overwhelming them because when you say, think

568
00:29:33,829 --> 00:29:36,469
Speaker 2: about the supermarket aisle, I don't know if I have

569
00:29:36,709 --> 00:29:39,549
Speaker 2: necessarily consciously let my kids go into a different isle

570
00:29:39,589 --> 00:29:42,789
Speaker 2: in the supermarket. And one way to get around that

571
00:29:43,029 --> 00:29:46,549
Speaker 2: is that Jonathan Hite has this organization called let Grow

572
00:29:46,589 --> 00:29:49,549
Speaker 2: that I know you've come across twumonds and that website.

573
00:29:49,549 --> 00:29:52,709
Speaker 2: The let Grow website has a ton of useful information

574
00:29:52,869 --> 00:29:56,749
Speaker 2: and practical tips on how you can start letting go

575
00:29:56,949 --> 00:29:59,949
Speaker 2: of your kids and let them into the world. And

576
00:30:00,029 --> 00:30:02,269
Speaker 2: they even have this little card you can print out

577
00:30:02,309 --> 00:30:05,549
Speaker 2: there that your child can carry that says I am

578
00:30:05,589 --> 00:30:08,429
Speaker 2: not a neglected child. I am a child whose parents

579
00:30:08,469 --> 00:30:10,589
Speaker 2: want me to be able to walk around in the world.

580
00:30:10,909 --> 00:30:13,109
Speaker 2: Here is their number if you have any questions. And

581
00:30:13,149 --> 00:30:14,469
Speaker 2: I think that's a brilliant idea.

582
00:30:14,589 --> 00:30:15,669
Speaker 3: That's so interesting.

583
00:30:15,989 --> 00:30:17,909
Speaker 2: Maybe it is a case of that we're worrying about

584
00:30:17,909 --> 00:30:20,069
Speaker 2: the wrong thing. Like it's like when people are worried

585
00:30:20,069 --> 00:30:22,149
Speaker 2: about getting on a plane and the plane crashing, but

586
00:30:22,149 --> 00:30:24,549
Speaker 2: then they'll jump in their car every day after a

587
00:30:24,549 --> 00:30:26,269
Speaker 2: couple of glasses of wine and not think.

588
00:30:26,149 --> 00:30:28,829
Speaker 3: Twice about it. Like really, we're.

589
00:30:28,589 --> 00:30:30,989
Speaker 2: Thinking that the danger is when they're out and about

590
00:30:31,069 --> 00:30:33,709
Speaker 2: without us, But a lot of the danger is the phone.

591
00:30:33,829 --> 00:30:36,309
Speaker 2: Like we're seeing time and time again studies showing that

592
00:30:36,389 --> 00:30:38,629
Speaker 2: phones are the damaging thing to their mental health and

593
00:30:38,669 --> 00:30:41,549
Speaker 2: they're overall well being, like to their resilience. And yet

594
00:30:41,549 --> 00:30:44,349
Speaker 2: we're saying, here, have the phone, never leave it alone.

595
00:30:44,509 --> 00:30:46,309
Speaker 2: You must take this with you so that I don't

596
00:30:46,349 --> 00:30:49,549
Speaker 2: lose you. It's kind of like misdirected fear. I think

597
00:30:49,829 --> 00:30:50,549
Speaker 2: I saw.

598
00:30:50,549 --> 00:30:54,429
Speaker 1: An article that said that in twenty twenty three, stalking

599
00:30:54,549 --> 00:30:59,549
Speaker 1: victims filed a class action lawsuit against this company Life

600
00:30:59,549 --> 00:31:03,189
Speaker 1: three sixty and against Tyle and against Amazon for essentially

601
00:31:03,269 --> 00:31:08,829
Speaker 1: promoting stalking, specifically multiple privacy law violations. And there was

602
00:31:08,869 --> 00:31:10,989
Speaker 1: this article in the Washington Post as well that said

603
00:31:11,349 --> 00:31:15,069
Speaker 1: that parents are using this location sharing feature to track

604
00:31:15,109 --> 00:31:19,589
Speaker 1: their teenage and adult children in ways that resemble emotional abuse.

605
00:31:19,909 --> 00:31:22,829
Speaker 1: So you talked about that before, Amelia, like, is it

606
00:31:22,869 --> 00:31:24,749
Speaker 1: a thin end of the wedge? Are we teaching our

607
00:31:24,829 --> 00:31:28,189
Speaker 1: kids that surveillance is normal and surveillance is love? And

608
00:31:28,229 --> 00:31:29,069
Speaker 1: what does that say?

609
00:31:29,429 --> 00:31:31,709
Speaker 2: And I think we're teaching each other that too. The

610
00:31:31,749 --> 00:31:34,829
Speaker 2: new South Wales Crime Commission has actually highlighted the use

611
00:31:34,869 --> 00:31:38,509
Speaker 2: of these apps in both domestic violence and organized crime settings.

612
00:31:38,989 --> 00:31:42,389
Speaker 2: In a lot of intimate partner violence situations, these apps

613
00:31:42,389 --> 00:31:45,589
Speaker 2: are used to control And I wonder if we're just

614
00:31:45,669 --> 00:31:49,469
Speaker 2: becoming used to having people on demand and having information

615
00:31:49,509 --> 00:31:52,629
Speaker 2: about people on demand in a way that isn't just

616
00:31:52,669 --> 00:31:55,469
Speaker 2: done reasonable for kids, but it's also bleeding into our

617
00:31:55,509 --> 00:31:59,069
Speaker 2: other relationships. And it's like the app doesn't guarantee the safety.

618
00:31:59,109 --> 00:32:00,989
Speaker 2: It's telling you where they are but it's not telling

619
00:32:01,069 --> 00:32:04,349
Speaker 2: you the circumstances of that location and how safe they'd

620
00:32:04,349 --> 00:32:06,389
Speaker 2: be when they're there. You might be seeing them at

621
00:32:06,429 --> 00:32:08,629
Speaker 2: their friend's house, there could be a party going on,

622
00:32:08,709 --> 00:32:11,909
Speaker 2: all sorts of strangers there. It's not like a fail safe.

623
00:32:11,949 --> 00:32:14,389
Speaker 2: It doesn't account for everything that could go wrong.

624
00:32:14,509 --> 00:32:17,949
Speaker 1: So true Stacy. Also, kids are savvy. They're going to

625
00:32:18,349 --> 00:32:20,309
Speaker 1: find a work around for this anyway. They're going to

626
00:32:20,389 --> 00:32:22,669
Speaker 1: put their phone under their pillow at home and then

627
00:32:22,749 --> 00:32:25,269
Speaker 1: have a burn a phone that they're using at a party.

628
00:32:25,389 --> 00:32:26,389
Speaker 3: That's exactly right.

629
00:32:26,429 --> 00:32:30,829
Speaker 2: I found this awesome article Juliet Weisfogel wrote for She Knows,

630
00:32:30,949 --> 00:32:35,149
Speaker 2: a Teens Guide to Temporarily Regaining Freedom, where she's written

631
00:32:35,229 --> 00:32:37,709
Speaker 2: all about the hacks that she used when her mum

632
00:32:37,829 --> 00:32:39,869
Speaker 2: put the tracking apps on her phone when she was

633
00:32:39,909 --> 00:32:42,309
Speaker 2: a fourteen year old and got caught sneaking out the

634
00:32:42,349 --> 00:32:44,909
Speaker 2: window on the ways that she got around it. So

635
00:32:44,909 --> 00:32:47,309
Speaker 2: there were different things she did, like turning off the

636
00:32:47,349 --> 00:32:50,669
Speaker 2: Bluetooth at home and the Wi Fi so that the

637
00:32:50,749 --> 00:32:53,029
Speaker 2: app would know that that was her last location, and

638
00:32:53,029 --> 00:32:53,869
Speaker 2: then sneaking out the.

639
00:32:53,789 --> 00:32:54,789
Speaker 3: Window to a party.

640
00:32:55,149 --> 00:32:57,309
Speaker 2: But I thought the best one that she gave is advice,

641
00:32:57,349 --> 00:33:00,709
Speaker 2: which is so funny, really crazy idea to get around it.

642
00:33:00,789 --> 00:33:03,629
Speaker 2: She suggested leave your phone at home and go to

643
00:33:03,669 --> 00:33:06,349
Speaker 2: the party. But I thought the best part was that

644
00:33:06,389 --> 00:33:09,309
Speaker 2: she said they still took their laptops because they needed

645
00:33:09,349 --> 00:33:12,189
Speaker 2: a way to Community Cape and to Uber home afterwards.

646
00:33:12,229 --> 00:33:14,229
Speaker 2: So they've got a bit of technology on them anyway,

647
00:33:14,269 --> 00:33:16,789
Speaker 2: they can't escape it. And that said, I'm getting a

648
00:33:16,789 --> 00:33:19,229
Speaker 2: bit of deja vu here, which is before I had kids,

649
00:33:19,229 --> 00:33:21,869
Speaker 2: I said I'd never let them watch TV. I reserve

650
00:33:21,949 --> 00:33:24,789
Speaker 2: the right to use tracking apps the minute I feel

651
00:33:24,829 --> 00:33:27,869
Speaker 2: I need to. Yeah, some sad news cross my feed

652
00:33:27,909 --> 00:33:31,829
Speaker 2: this week. Every reject shop in Australia is about to

653
00:33:31,869 --> 00:33:32,869
Speaker 2: disappear for good.

654
00:33:33,349 --> 00:33:33,629
Speaker 1: No.

655
00:33:35,269 --> 00:33:38,629
Speaker 2: I love the reject shop, and I also love the

656
00:33:38,669 --> 00:33:41,269
Speaker 2: top comment on this news from a Reddit post about

657
00:33:41,269 --> 00:33:43,869
Speaker 2: the reject shop. No longer will I be able to

658
00:33:43,909 --> 00:33:46,269
Speaker 2: tell my sister that's where my mum and dad bought her.

659
00:33:47,309 --> 00:33:49,229
Speaker 3: That was a classic. I pulled that one a couple

660
00:33:49,309 --> 00:33:50,029
Speaker 3: of times too.

661
00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:54,629
Speaker 2: Look, it's probably a deep psychological problem I have, but

662
00:33:54,749 --> 00:33:58,789
Speaker 2: the reject shop really brings out my latent hoarding instincts.

663
00:33:58,869 --> 00:34:01,429
Speaker 2: I go in there with my little basket and because

664
00:34:01,509 --> 00:34:05,389
Speaker 2: everything is so aggressively and reasonably priced. I just want

665
00:34:05,429 --> 00:34:08,629
Speaker 2: it all, and it makes me feel like I can

666
00:34:08,669 --> 00:34:11,069
Speaker 2: be a different kind of parent. This is the kind

667
00:34:11,069 --> 00:34:13,189
Speaker 2: of parent who has a craft draw as opposed to

668
00:34:13,229 --> 00:34:17,069
Speaker 2: just piles of nonsense, the kind who sharpens her kids

669
00:34:17,149 --> 00:34:20,309
Speaker 2: pencils every evening while thinking about the masterpieces that they're

670
00:34:20,309 --> 00:34:22,389
Speaker 2: going to create the next day that she's not going

671
00:34:22,429 --> 00:34:24,949
Speaker 2: to throw out when no one's looking back, instead curate

672
00:34:24,989 --> 00:34:27,069
Speaker 2: in a perfect scrap book that she also got at

673
00:34:27,069 --> 00:34:30,589
Speaker 2: the reject shop. And the kind of parent who creates

674
00:34:30,589 --> 00:34:33,349
Speaker 2: seasonal tablescapes. I really want to be one of those

675
00:34:33,389 --> 00:34:36,789
Speaker 2: parents who celebrates the coming of spring with some pastels.

676
00:34:37,269 --> 00:34:38,709
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that feeling in Ikia.

677
00:34:39,029 --> 00:34:43,469
Speaker 2: This is okay, that's yours reject, that's my reject shop. Look,

678
00:34:43,509 --> 00:34:46,669
Speaker 2: that's why I really want to pour out a bottle

679
00:34:46,749 --> 00:34:50,389
Speaker 2: of aggressively scentered off brand bubble bath for the reject.

680
00:34:52,629 --> 00:34:55,309
Speaker 2: You know exactly what you're talking. I can smell the smell,

681
00:34:55,469 --> 00:34:59,429
Speaker 2: as you said, it's blue, right, it's blue. And you're like,

682
00:34:59,709 --> 00:35:03,349
Speaker 2: is this going to make my children's skin break out

683
00:35:03,389 --> 00:35:05,949
Speaker 2: in a rash? Maybe, but they're going to have fun

684
00:35:06,029 --> 00:35:08,269
Speaker 2: doing it, and it's going to be a formal thing

685
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:10,069
Speaker 2: reject shop.

686
00:35:10,229 --> 00:35:11,389
Speaker 3: Thank you for the good times.

687
00:35:11,429 --> 00:35:14,749
Speaker 2: Remember when Tony Abbott I'm wittingly posed in front of

688
00:35:14,789 --> 00:35:18,309
Speaker 2: its signage on a campaign stop in Canberra before the election.

689
00:35:18,429 --> 00:35:21,949
Speaker 2: He loves, Isn't that wonderful? Thank you for making school

690
00:35:21,949 --> 00:35:25,229
Speaker 2: holidays bearable. Thank you for the competitively priced water colors.

691
00:35:25,469 --> 00:35:29,629
Speaker 2: Thank you for the Okay. I've just been told by

692
00:35:29,629 --> 00:35:33,669
Speaker 2: their producers that in fact, it's just being renamed, and

693
00:35:33,709 --> 00:35:36,589
Speaker 2: they're telling me that it's going to be okay. It's

694
00:35:36,629 --> 00:35:40,229
Speaker 2: going to be called something called Dolorama, which is apparently

695
00:35:40,309 --> 00:35:41,749
Speaker 2: a Canadian chain.

696
00:35:42,589 --> 00:35:45,469
Speaker 3: That just doesn't the same ring.

697
00:35:46,749 --> 00:35:50,029
Speaker 2: And I am going to suspend judgment on this and

698
00:35:50,109 --> 00:35:52,029
Speaker 2: wait to go and see it. But in the meantime,

699
00:35:52,109 --> 00:35:54,029
Speaker 2: thank you for the good times. Thank you for the

700
00:35:54,469 --> 00:35:57,989
Speaker 2: hairspray I have that has the name It's giving Glam.

701
00:35:59,189 --> 00:36:03,109
Speaker 1: They sell Impulse body Spray. There, guys, stop it now.

702
00:36:05,349 --> 00:36:07,949
Speaker 2: I read a substat this week called once again I

703
00:36:07,989 --> 00:36:10,589
Speaker 2: wish I had kids younger that I have been busting

704
00:36:10,629 --> 00:36:12,429
Speaker 2: to talk to you too about because I know you'll

705
00:36:12,469 --> 00:36:15,629
Speaker 2: have a lot of feelings. Jim Dalrymple, who was thirty

706
00:36:15,629 --> 00:36:18,029
Speaker 2: six when he had his first child, said he started

707
00:36:18,029 --> 00:36:20,429
Speaker 2: thinking about the pros and cons of having kids younger.

708
00:36:20,509 --> 00:36:24,229
Speaker 2: When the CEO of an AI company, Brad Weiss tweeted

709
00:36:24,789 --> 00:36:28,669
Speaker 2: having kids before thirty is how you stay generationally poor,

710
00:36:28,869 --> 00:36:33,109
Speaker 2: and it caused quite the debate. So Wis later clarafried

711
00:36:33,149 --> 00:36:35,189
Speaker 2: that what he meant is that having kids young eats

712
00:36:35,229 --> 00:36:37,709
Speaker 2: up your cash flow and your time, which makes having

713
00:36:37,789 --> 00:36:41,149
Speaker 2: kids sound like dodgy investment properties, and fair kind of does.

714
00:36:41,549 --> 00:36:45,109
Speaker 2: But Dalrymple argues that the opposite might be true when

715
00:36:45,149 --> 00:36:47,589
Speaker 2: you consider what you could gain later down the track

716
00:36:47,629 --> 00:36:50,589
Speaker 2: by having kids early. So he says in his piece,

717
00:36:50,949 --> 00:36:53,509
Speaker 2: if I become a grandparent at sixty two rather than

718
00:36:53,589 --> 00:36:56,189
Speaker 2: seventy two, I might be able to provide ten years

719
00:36:56,189 --> 00:36:58,749
Speaker 2: of full time care for my grandkids. This could be

720
00:36:58,789 --> 00:37:01,749
Speaker 2: worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to my descendants. That's

721
00:37:01,789 --> 00:37:06,229
Speaker 2: not generational poverty, it's generational wealth. Suddenly, having kids young

722
00:37:06,469 --> 00:37:09,829
Speaker 2: is a financial advantage, And his whole point is by

723
00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:13,149
Speaker 2: having kids sooner, we can give ourselves a more active,

724
00:37:13,189 --> 00:37:15,909
Speaker 2: involved village, which is something a lot of us millennials

725
00:37:15,989 --> 00:37:18,909
Speaker 2: say that we don't really have, is an involved village.

726
00:37:19,149 --> 00:37:22,069
Speaker 2: He makes the point that millennials complain that they don't

727
00:37:22,069 --> 00:37:24,349
Speaker 2: have a village, but then go out and make choices

728
00:37:24,349 --> 00:37:26,669
Speaker 2: that will actively ensure our children also.

729
00:37:26,469 --> 00:37:27,429
Speaker 3: Don't have a village.

730
00:37:27,709 --> 00:37:30,429
Speaker 2: This is very simplistic, Like he acknowledges that that not

731
00:37:30,509 --> 00:37:32,989
Speaker 2: everyone is going to have a village just by compressing

732
00:37:33,029 --> 00:37:36,309
Speaker 2: the time span between generations. Some people won't have a village,

733
00:37:36,309 --> 00:37:38,269
Speaker 2: whether they have a baby at twenty two or they

734
00:37:38,269 --> 00:37:41,269
Speaker 2: have one at forty two. But the point is that

735
00:37:41,509 --> 00:37:43,989
Speaker 2: we could rethink the way families are helping each other.

736
00:37:44,589 --> 00:37:47,429
Speaker 2: So mon's do you wish you got cracking sooner now

737
00:37:47,509 --> 00:37:48,749
Speaker 2: that you heard this argument?

738
00:37:49,509 --> 00:37:55,069
Speaker 1: Jim, Jim, Jim, I see your argument. I accept your argument.

739
00:37:55,349 --> 00:37:59,469
Speaker 1: What I don't accept is the thing that he's missed entirely,

740
00:37:59,909 --> 00:38:02,869
Speaker 1: which is the reason so many of us don't have

741
00:38:02,989 --> 00:38:06,949
Speaker 1: babies until like our thirties and older. It's not just

742
00:38:07,069 --> 00:38:09,909
Speaker 1: because we're making a choice about that. There are all

743
00:38:09,949 --> 00:38:14,189
Speaker 1: the systemic reasons, like there are huge socio economic and

744
00:38:14,269 --> 00:38:18,829
Speaker 1: social drivers that are related to this. And here's my receipts.

745
00:38:19,309 --> 00:38:23,149
Speaker 1: In Australia, the average age of first time mums is

746
00:38:23,229 --> 00:38:26,789
Speaker 1: twenty nine point nine years, so almost thirty in the

747
00:38:26,909 --> 00:38:29,829
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, which is where Jim wants to live.

748
00:38:30,349 --> 00:38:32,749
Speaker 3: It was twenty three.

749
00:38:32,869 --> 00:38:36,429
Speaker 1: Demographers and social researchers have looked at this. They're like,

750
00:38:36,749 --> 00:38:40,869
Speaker 1: why are people having babies older? Here's why women are

751
00:38:40,909 --> 00:38:44,709
Speaker 1: spending more years in higher education, They're establishing careers. There

752
00:38:44,749 --> 00:38:48,869
Speaker 1: are enormous economic pressures on us right now. There's insecure work,

753
00:38:49,269 --> 00:38:53,589
Speaker 1: there's better contraception, which means more control over timing. Meeting

754
00:38:53,669 --> 00:38:57,309
Speaker 1: someone is a shit show. People are marrying their partners

755
00:38:57,469 --> 00:39:00,669
Speaker 1: much later. So the average age at marriage in Australia

756
00:39:00,709 --> 00:39:03,229
Speaker 1: is now thirty two for women thirty four for men.

757
00:39:03,429 --> 00:39:05,949
Speaker 1: That's ten years later than in the nineteen seventy so

758
00:39:05,989 --> 00:39:10,109
Speaker 1: that pushes berths further out. Also, FYI, it takes ten

759
00:39:10,229 --> 00:39:12,949
Speaker 1: years now to say for a house deposits. So I

760
00:39:13,029 --> 00:39:16,029
Speaker 1: just think, yeah, cool story, Jim, I see that, But

761
00:39:16,069 --> 00:39:19,429
Speaker 1: the data doesn't quite match up. And I think that

762
00:39:19,429 --> 00:39:21,829
Speaker 1: that's the piece that was missing for me here is

763
00:39:22,229 --> 00:39:24,909
Speaker 1: it's not a personal choice to have kids later. There's

764
00:39:25,029 --> 00:39:28,349
Speaker 1: all these other things happening around us. This is not

765
00:39:28,629 --> 00:39:31,909
Speaker 1: just in Australia. This is globally. If you zoom out,

766
00:39:32,189 --> 00:39:35,309
Speaker 1: this is happening across the EU, It's happening in Italy, Greece,

767
00:39:35,349 --> 00:39:39,829
Speaker 1: and Ireland. It's happening in Asia. Maternal age is rising everywhere.

768
00:39:40,189 --> 00:39:43,349
Speaker 1: There are very few places that are bucking the trend. Here.

769
00:39:43,469 --> 00:39:46,669
Speaker 1: It's sort of rural India and some parts of northern Europe.

770
00:39:46,909 --> 00:39:50,869
Speaker 1: But mostly the average age of parents is rising because

771
00:39:50,909 --> 00:39:55,549
Speaker 1: we are being structurally funneled into it from all the pressures.

772
00:39:55,709 --> 00:39:59,309
Speaker 2: Jim I didn't like the article either.

773
00:39:59,789 --> 00:40:00,389
Speaker 3: At first.

774
00:40:00,469 --> 00:40:02,989
Speaker 2: I did. At first, I writ it and look, it's

775
00:40:03,069 --> 00:40:06,309
Speaker 2: like everything you disagree with politically, often there's a kernel

776
00:40:06,349 --> 00:40:07,189
Speaker 2: of truth in it.

777
00:40:07,309 --> 00:40:08,949
Speaker 3: And that's why on first read.

778
00:40:08,829 --> 00:40:10,829
Speaker 2: I was kind of seduced by his thesis.

779
00:40:10,989 --> 00:40:12,629
Speaker 1: Yes, but it's true.

780
00:40:12,869 --> 00:40:16,549
Speaker 2: You know, when you have children older, your parents are older,

781
00:40:17,109 --> 00:40:21,229
Speaker 2: they are less into changing nappies because they are enjoying

782
00:40:21,269 --> 00:40:25,109
Speaker 2: their retirement, and you're older, so it's harder to wake

783
00:40:25,189 --> 00:40:28,229
Speaker 2: up in the morning. None of this can be disputed.

784
00:40:28,509 --> 00:40:32,829
Speaker 2: Getting older in general is not great, and your energy.

785
00:40:32,629 --> 00:40:33,669
Speaker 3: Levels do drop.

786
00:40:34,189 --> 00:40:36,789
Speaker 2: But then I started to think about what Jim was saying,

787
00:40:37,669 --> 00:40:40,229
Speaker 2: and I realized that he was missing an elephant in

788
00:40:40,269 --> 00:40:44,229
Speaker 2: the room, and that elephant is women. He says, no,

789
00:40:44,309 --> 00:40:48,029
Speaker 2: it's fine to have children young, because it turns out

790
00:40:48,109 --> 00:40:51,669
Speaker 2: that men who have children young actually make more money

791
00:40:52,109 --> 00:40:55,189
Speaker 2: than men who have children later. And then I thought

792
00:40:55,189 --> 00:40:59,909
Speaker 2: to myself, Yeah, but women who have children younger make

793
00:41:00,069 --> 00:41:03,429
Speaker 2: less money than women who have children later. And you

794
00:41:03,509 --> 00:41:07,389
Speaker 2: know why that is. It's because the motherhood penalty is real.

795
00:41:07,869 --> 00:41:11,949
Speaker 2: These Drailian Burial statistics shows that women reduce their paid

796
00:41:11,989 --> 00:41:14,909
Speaker 2: work hours by about thirty five percent across the first

797
00:41:14,949 --> 00:41:17,709
Speaker 2: five years after the arrival of children. Australia has one

798
00:41:17,749 --> 00:41:20,709
Speaker 2: of the highest rates of part time work by women

799
00:41:20,909 --> 00:41:23,909
Speaker 2: in the OECD. In some ways, that's great. It means

800
00:41:23,909 --> 00:41:26,509
Speaker 2: we get a lot more flexibility when our children are

801
00:41:26,549 --> 00:41:28,309
Speaker 2: young to give them the time that we want to

802
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:30,989
Speaker 2: give them. In other ways, it means we're missing out

803
00:41:30,989 --> 00:41:34,389
Speaker 2: on income for retirement and for financial security and stability

804
00:41:34,429 --> 00:41:37,229
Speaker 2: because we're looking after children and we're taking ourselves out

805
00:41:37,229 --> 00:41:40,949
Speaker 2: of full time work. So the motherhood penalty for women

806
00:41:41,149 --> 00:41:43,309
Speaker 2: is real, and it's even more real when you have

807
00:41:43,389 --> 00:41:47,029
Speaker 2: kids younger. The other problem with it is that when

808
00:41:47,069 --> 00:41:50,509
Speaker 2: we talk about the village, let's be real, we're talking

809
00:41:50,549 --> 00:41:51,589
Speaker 2: about grandmothers, right.

810
00:41:51,829 --> 00:41:54,389
Speaker 3: That is so true. That's what the village is.

811
00:41:54,469 --> 00:41:58,549
Speaker 2: The village is just a series of grandmothers making crowcheped

812
00:41:58,549 --> 00:42:00,509
Speaker 2: blankets and doing the stuff.

813
00:42:01,029 --> 00:42:04,109
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the unpaid labor that women get luved with. Again,

814
00:42:04,389 --> 00:42:05,349
Speaker 1: good point, Amelia.

815
00:42:05,629 --> 00:42:08,509
Speaker 2: And the thing about grandmothers is they're not paid for

816
00:42:08,589 --> 00:42:12,549
Speaker 2: what they do. Village is unpaid labor and that's wonderful.

817
00:42:12,549 --> 00:42:15,429
Speaker 2: Grandmothers want to do it. They love their grandkids. But

818
00:42:16,109 --> 00:42:18,869
Speaker 2: we can't get away from the fact that we're basically

819
00:42:18,909 --> 00:42:22,349
Speaker 2: saying that we want more unpaid labor by women. And

820
00:42:22,469 --> 00:42:25,949
Speaker 2: one way Australians are actually pushing to strengthen that village

821
00:42:26,029 --> 00:42:29,629
Speaker 2: is they're pushing to include grandparents in the government childcare subsidy.

822
00:42:29,949 --> 00:42:32,909
Speaker 2: Parents around the nation are actually putting together a petition

823
00:42:32,989 --> 00:42:36,749
Speaker 2: for the Prime Minister to say why shouldn't grandparents get

824
00:42:36,789 --> 00:42:39,709
Speaker 2: the same kinds of financial reimbursement as other types of

825
00:42:39,789 --> 00:42:43,069
Speaker 2: care And I think that's a really solid step forward

826
00:42:43,269 --> 00:42:46,269
Speaker 2: rather than saying that women should take themselves out of

827
00:42:46,269 --> 00:42:49,709
Speaker 2: the workplace earlier to have children. Yeah, and it's also

828
00:42:50,029 --> 00:42:52,069
Speaker 2: in an ideal world that would be lovely if you

829
00:42:52,229 --> 00:42:55,549
Speaker 2: had your children earlier your parents are around to help you.

830
00:42:55,989 --> 00:42:58,229
Speaker 2: But you can't bet on the fact that once you

831
00:42:58,309 --> 00:43:01,229
Speaker 2: get there, your parents will be around to help you.

832
00:43:01,309 --> 00:43:04,549
Speaker 2: Like that's assuming that nothing will go wrong for them physically.

833
00:43:04,829 --> 00:43:08,229
Speaker 1: Or health wise, and assuming they're alive exactly, they have

834
00:43:08,269 --> 00:43:09,789
Speaker 1: a relationship with you as well.

835
00:43:09,709 --> 00:43:12,589
Speaker 2: That's not guaranteed that they're even going to be there.

836
00:43:12,629 --> 00:43:14,869
Speaker 2: And as you say, they're not paid workers. They can

837
00:43:14,949 --> 00:43:16,709
Speaker 2: change their mind at any time and say I'm.

838
00:43:16,629 --> 00:43:17,429
Speaker 3: Not helping you with this.

839
00:43:17,789 --> 00:43:20,029
Speaker 2: Your kids are brat, You're on your own, so you're

840
00:43:20,069 --> 00:43:23,109
Speaker 2: not guaranteeing yourself a village. Obviously, in an ideal world

841
00:43:23,149 --> 00:43:25,669
Speaker 2: that would be lovely, But why would I risk it

842
00:43:25,749 --> 00:43:28,669
Speaker 2: and risk my earning capacity to have a child earlier? On?

843
00:43:28,709 --> 00:43:29,109
Speaker 3: What if?

844
00:43:29,509 --> 00:43:33,909
Speaker 2: Sorry, Jim. I love that more men are writing about parenting,

845
00:43:34,109 --> 00:43:37,829
Speaker 2: and I think Jim's got a terrific newsletter which I

846
00:43:37,869 --> 00:43:39,829
Speaker 2: have subscribed to because I do want to hear more

847
00:43:39,869 --> 00:43:42,429
Speaker 2: perspectives from men, and it's really refreshing to have a

848
00:43:42,469 --> 00:43:46,749
Speaker 2: man talk frankly about his regrets in fatherhood. But turns

849
00:43:46,749 --> 00:43:49,029
Speaker 2: out he really is pushing an a gender. He also

850
00:43:49,229 --> 00:43:51,749
Speaker 2: writes for a conservative think tank in the US that's

851
00:43:51,749 --> 00:43:57,149
Speaker 2: dedicated to strengthening marriage, hint heterosexual marriage and families, and

852
00:43:57,229 --> 00:43:59,709
Speaker 2: I think blessed Jim, like, even if we subscribe to

853
00:44:00,069 --> 00:44:02,429
Speaker 2: this idea that we should be having them younger, I

854
00:44:02,429 --> 00:44:05,429
Speaker 2: think we can all probably admit whether we it's not

855
00:44:05,509 --> 00:44:07,549
Speaker 2: a great trait. But when you hear of someone who's

856
00:44:07,589 --> 00:44:10,349
Speaker 2: had a baby at twenty two to twenty three, first

857
00:44:10,389 --> 00:44:12,589
Speaker 2: question is one was that on purpose?

858
00:44:12,709 --> 00:44:15,229
Speaker 3: Did they mean to do that? And two?

859
00:44:15,829 --> 00:44:17,469
Speaker 2: How are they going to do this now? Who's going

860
00:44:17,509 --> 00:44:19,309
Speaker 2: to help them look after that baby? How are they

861
00:44:19,309 --> 00:44:20,789
Speaker 2: going to move ahead in their career? Like I get

862
00:44:20,829 --> 00:44:23,869
Speaker 2: secondhand stress for women that have them younger because I

863
00:44:23,909 --> 00:44:26,629
Speaker 2: think about how hard it would be to parent at

864
00:44:26,669 --> 00:44:30,149
Speaker 2: that age. It will help out, Yeah, good stacy, what.

865
00:44:30,189 --> 00:44:31,909
Speaker 1: They've got all the energy in the world. That's the

866
00:44:31,949 --> 00:44:33,149
Speaker 1: best age to be a parent.

867
00:44:33,189 --> 00:44:35,189
Speaker 3: That's what's sad, it's true, but it is a young

868
00:44:35,269 --> 00:44:36,989
Speaker 3: person's game. And that is the thing.

869
00:44:37,109 --> 00:44:39,269
Speaker 2: Like, really, when you look at all of the studies

870
00:44:39,349 --> 00:44:41,749
Speaker 2: around when is actually best for us to conceive and

871
00:44:41,789 --> 00:44:44,749
Speaker 2: when would equate to the lowest risk pregnancy, it is

872
00:44:44,789 --> 00:44:47,069
Speaker 2: in our mid twenties to late twenties, Like that is

873
00:44:47,109 --> 00:44:49,589
Speaker 2: when we should be having them, but we're just too

874
00:44:49,629 --> 00:44:52,949
Speaker 2: busy getting our shit in order to do it all.

875
00:44:53,029 --> 00:44:55,389
Speaker 1: Right. To wrap up today's show, we want to share

876
00:44:55,389 --> 00:44:57,309
Speaker 1: the things that we're loving, sick, things that we might

877
00:44:57,349 --> 00:44:59,389
Speaker 1: text to our friends or put in a mum's group

878
00:44:59,509 --> 00:45:01,349
Speaker 1: chat Amelia.

879
00:45:01,429 --> 00:45:05,109
Speaker 2: So, I have discovered a book series that I want

880
00:45:05,149 --> 00:45:08,509
Speaker 2: to read just as much, if not more, than my children.

881
00:45:08,789 --> 00:45:11,909
Speaker 2: And it's called Percy Jack and the Olympians. This is

882
00:45:11,949 --> 00:45:15,989
Speaker 2: a series that inspires absolute devotion and adoration in people.

883
00:45:16,029 --> 00:45:17,749
Speaker 2: And I guess I've been living under a rock because

884
00:45:17,789 --> 00:45:20,029
Speaker 2: I only recently discovered it. The book started coming out

885
00:45:20,069 --> 00:45:22,029
Speaker 2: in two thousand and five that by an author called

886
00:45:22,149 --> 00:45:24,989
Speaker 2: Rick Reordan. I pick one up at the bookshop and

887
00:45:25,029 --> 00:45:27,149
Speaker 2: I took it to the counter and the young woman

888
00:45:27,189 --> 00:45:30,669
Speaker 2: behind the counter literally gasped and said, this is the

889
00:45:30,709 --> 00:45:33,189
Speaker 2: book that got me into reading. And now she works

890
00:45:33,229 --> 00:45:35,789
Speaker 2: at a bookshop, so she's very into reading. And I

891
00:45:35,829 --> 00:45:38,069
Speaker 2: took it home and started reading it to my children,

892
00:45:38,309 --> 00:45:42,669
Speaker 2: and look, they think it's fine. I'm obsessed. I'm now like,

893
00:45:42,789 --> 00:45:45,709
Speaker 2: can we start doing bedtime reading at six point thirty

894
00:45:45,709 --> 00:45:47,989
Speaker 2: when bedtime is eight, just so we can read more

895
00:45:47,989 --> 00:45:50,549
Speaker 2: of the books. There are fantasy series. They're about a

896
00:45:50,589 --> 00:45:53,909
Speaker 2: twelve year old kid who travels across America to recover

897
00:45:54,029 --> 00:45:58,869
Speaker 2: Zeus's lightning Bolt. They're based on Greek mythology. They're so exciting,

898
00:45:59,069 --> 00:46:02,789
Speaker 2: they're so gripping and They're a page turner for kids

899
00:46:02,869 --> 00:46:03,909
Speaker 2: and adults alike.

900
00:46:04,229 --> 00:46:06,269
Speaker 1: That's great. I love that. Did you start with a

901
00:46:06,309 --> 00:46:08,109
Speaker 1: particular one? Is it a series that you have to

902
00:46:08,149 --> 00:46:08,949
Speaker 1: start at zero?

903
00:46:09,269 --> 00:46:11,789
Speaker 2: Yeah, start at zero. The first book's called The Lightning Thief.

904
00:46:11,829 --> 00:46:13,829
Speaker 2: But there's so many in the series. So the good

905
00:46:13,829 --> 00:46:16,629
Speaker 2: news is you have a lot of great reading ahead

906
00:46:16,629 --> 00:46:16,789
Speaker 2: of you.

907
00:46:17,109 --> 00:46:21,709
Speaker 1: I've been reading Rolldald to my kids, who role like, well,

908
00:46:21,869 --> 00:46:25,629
Speaker 1: the world has changed. I was reading The Magic Finger

909
00:46:25,789 --> 00:46:28,229
Speaker 1: to the Middle of Night. Do you remember this one?

910
00:46:28,549 --> 00:46:31,109
Speaker 1: The kids have guns in it?

911
00:46:31,149 --> 00:46:33,109
Speaker 2: Is the Gunner Magic Fingers.

912
00:46:33,389 --> 00:46:38,069
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, it's just like wow. Another time Rodal did

913
00:46:38,109 --> 00:46:41,549
Speaker 1: not give a shit about like being careful around language

914
00:46:41,709 --> 00:46:45,669
Speaker 1: or he's just yeah, it's really cool to read. Stacy, Stacy,

915
00:46:45,749 --> 00:46:46,669
Speaker 1: what are you recommending?

916
00:46:47,189 --> 00:46:49,669
Speaker 2: So despite us onthly doing this show for a few weeks,

917
00:46:49,709 --> 00:46:52,669
Speaker 2: I felt like I had run out of recommendations yesterday,

918
00:46:53,229 --> 00:46:55,389
Speaker 2: and I of course made that my husband's problem.

919
00:46:55,549 --> 00:46:57,309
Speaker 3: I was like, do a lap.

920
00:46:57,109 --> 00:47:00,429
Speaker 2: Of the house, look around at our daughter's stuff and

921
00:47:00,469 --> 00:47:03,029
Speaker 2: see if there's anything that I should be recommending. And

922
00:47:03,069 --> 00:47:05,389
Speaker 2: as I've got him on that wild Goose Chase, I

923
00:47:05,629 --> 00:47:08,829
Speaker 2: found the thing that I wanted to recommend so it

924
00:47:08,869 --> 00:47:10,989
Speaker 2: only cost me twelve dollars and I bought it five

925
00:47:11,069 --> 00:47:13,069
Speaker 2: years ago and I still use it every single day,

926
00:47:13,109 --> 00:47:14,029
Speaker 2: and they still have them.

927
00:47:14,029 --> 00:47:14,589
Speaker 3: I've checked.

928
00:47:15,229 --> 00:47:19,109
Speaker 2: It's a nappy caddy from Kmart, so I'm well out

929
00:47:19,109 --> 00:47:22,549
Speaker 2: of the nappy stage. But they're just a cute little box,

930
00:47:22,629 --> 00:47:24,509
Speaker 2: chic looking little box with a handle on the top.

931
00:47:25,109 --> 00:47:28,309
Speaker 2: And I use it now as like the shit bits box.

932
00:47:28,629 --> 00:47:30,349
Speaker 2: So you know when you find like a piece of

933
00:47:30,349 --> 00:47:32,069
Speaker 2: a toy and you have no idea where the rest

934
00:47:32,109 --> 00:47:34,469
Speaker 2: of that toy is, and you put it in that

935
00:47:34,549 --> 00:47:37,029
Speaker 2: pile next to your fruit bowl, like where pay Miss

936
00:47:37,029 --> 00:47:39,189
Speaker 2: and Andy talk about this on the podcast Why do

937
00:47:39,229 --> 00:47:42,709
Speaker 2: you know about my house? Because we all have identical

938
00:47:42,789 --> 00:47:46,189
Speaker 2: houses and you just end up with all this crap

939
00:47:46,269 --> 00:47:47,669
Speaker 2: that you don't know where it's meant to go.

940
00:47:47,989 --> 00:47:50,629
Speaker 3: And all my daughter's like hair stuff.

941
00:47:50,309 --> 00:47:53,149
Speaker 2: You know, you're the curl cream and the tangling brush

942
00:47:53,189 --> 00:47:56,269
Speaker 2: and all those bits. I use that nappy caddy still

943
00:47:56,349 --> 00:47:58,589
Speaker 2: for all of those bits. And now I've got a

944
00:47:58,589 --> 00:48:01,749
Speaker 2: second one to stop the fruit bowl pile from piling up.

945
00:48:01,789 --> 00:48:03,269
Speaker 2: So I just put all the little bits in there

946
00:48:03,269 --> 00:48:04,189
Speaker 2: and figure it out later.

947
00:48:04,509 --> 00:48:05,669
Speaker 3: That's later. Mean's problem?

948
00:48:05,829 --> 00:48:08,989
Speaker 1: Are you literally recommending a bin like a bin.

949
00:48:09,629 --> 00:48:13,029
Speaker 3: No, there are things that you can't throw out, Yeah.

950
00:48:12,949 --> 00:48:14,909
Speaker 2: Because you know that the kid's going to be like,

951
00:48:15,029 --> 00:48:18,149
Speaker 2: where is the one small bit of a toy that

952
00:48:18,429 --> 00:48:22,109
Speaker 2: I desperately need? Yes, exactly, you need them at some

953
00:48:22,349 --> 00:48:25,029
Speaker 2: point maybe, but you can't throw them out.

954
00:48:25,149 --> 00:48:26,509
Speaker 3: So that's where this stuff goes.

955
00:48:26,709 --> 00:48:29,549
Speaker 1: Doesn't it stink though, from all the nappy odor that

956
00:48:29,709 --> 00:48:30,829
Speaker 1: seeped into the plastic.

957
00:48:31,389 --> 00:48:33,829
Speaker 2: No, I don't know about your nappy. No, I'm not

958
00:48:33,869 --> 00:48:37,029
Speaker 2: taling about a nappy bin, mons. I'm talking about a

959
00:48:37,069 --> 00:48:39,629
Speaker 2: little square box with a little handle on top of

960
00:48:39,669 --> 00:48:42,469
Speaker 2: the dirty nappies. Never went anywhere near it. It was

961
00:48:42,509 --> 00:48:47,429
Speaker 2: the one that you keep like the wipes, the clean nappies, gotcha,

962
00:48:47,509 --> 00:48:51,589
Speaker 2: the moisturizer. Okay, all right, Oh my god, No, that

963
00:48:51,709 --> 00:48:54,429
Speaker 2: bin is long gone. That bin has gone to the

964
00:48:54,469 --> 00:48:56,989
Speaker 2: tip that was foul, never to be returned to my house.

965
00:48:57,189 --> 00:48:59,109
Speaker 1: God, I thought you were just throwing everything in the

966
00:48:59,109 --> 00:49:01,629
Speaker 1: stinky like I am.

967
00:49:01,629 --> 00:49:03,549
Speaker 3: Here for that anyway.

968
00:49:03,589 --> 00:49:06,549
Speaker 2: They're like ten to twenty bucks at kmart and we'll

969
00:49:06,549 --> 00:49:10,749
Speaker 2: put a link to one.

970
00:49:08,909 --> 00:49:11,149
Speaker 1: On it, Stacy, so you can cover the ship bits.

971
00:49:11,549 --> 00:49:13,669
Speaker 2: No, the bits are free and loose, but that's fine,

972
00:49:13,669 --> 00:49:17,309
Speaker 2: I've got confused shit bits you're watching little bits of

973
00:49:17,349 --> 00:49:19,189
Speaker 2: shit in them. Yeah, I'm so sorry.

974
00:49:19,229 --> 00:49:23,309
Speaker 3: That's on memons. What's your reco.

975
00:49:23,469 --> 00:49:27,029
Speaker 1: I've got this hidden Netflix gem that I can't stop

976
00:49:27,029 --> 00:49:29,069
Speaker 1: watching right now, neither can my kids. It's not K

977
00:49:29,189 --> 00:49:33,349
Speaker 1: Pop Demon Hunters. It's toddler's running Errands. It's a show

978
00:49:33,429 --> 00:49:38,229
Speaker 1: called Old Enough. It's a Japanese show where they send

979
00:49:38,829 --> 00:49:42,109
Speaker 1: two three and four year olds off into the world

980
00:49:42,109 --> 00:49:44,389
Speaker 1: to run errands completely on their own, and then they

981
00:49:44,429 --> 00:49:46,029
Speaker 1: film them with hidden cameras.

982
00:49:46,109 --> 00:49:47,149
Speaker 3: Have they got tracking apps?

983
00:49:47,149 --> 00:49:50,829
Speaker 1: I must know there are no tracking apps. Literally. I

984
00:49:50,869 --> 00:49:53,109
Speaker 1: watched one last night where a woman said to her

985
00:49:53,149 --> 00:49:55,709
Speaker 1: three year old, take my pants to the store and

986
00:49:55,749 --> 00:49:59,869
Speaker 1: get them mended. And I cannot stop watching it. It's

987
00:49:59,909 --> 00:50:04,429
Speaker 1: equal parts adorable and terrifying. Like you will laugh, you

988
00:50:04,469 --> 00:50:08,469
Speaker 1: will gasp, you'll cheer for these toddlers, like these preschoolers,

989
00:50:08,949 --> 00:50:10,989
Speaker 1: and my kids love it to who even though they

990
00:50:10,989 --> 00:50:14,269
Speaker 1: can't quite understand it because it's in Japanese so there's

991
00:50:14,309 --> 00:50:17,149
Speaker 1: subtitles but they can't completely read them all. It's going

992
00:50:17,189 --> 00:50:19,069
Speaker 1: to make you want to send your kids out for

993
00:50:19,349 --> 00:50:22,669
Speaker 1: errands too, without a tracker, which is you know, sometimes

994
00:50:22,709 --> 00:50:23,149
Speaker 1: a good thing.

995
00:50:23,389 --> 00:50:27,309
Speaker 2: How successful are they fulfilling the errands? Did she get

996
00:50:27,309 --> 00:50:28,069
Speaker 2: the pants hammed?

997
00:50:28,389 --> 00:50:31,869
Speaker 1: Yes? They do the most amazing things, some of these kids,

998
00:50:31,949 --> 00:50:34,069
Speaker 1: And they show you during the show. They say they

999
00:50:34,069 --> 00:50:36,429
Speaker 1: have to walk three hundred meters, they need to cross

1000
00:50:36,469 --> 00:50:39,509
Speaker 1: two roads, so they set it up. And yes, these

1001
00:50:39,589 --> 00:50:42,549
Speaker 1: kids are so capable at such a young age. It's

1002
00:50:42,669 --> 00:50:45,749
Speaker 1: amazing to watch. And now since we've watched it, my

1003
00:50:45,829 --> 00:50:47,829
Speaker 1: kids keep saying, Mum, send me on an errand I

1004
00:50:47,869 --> 00:50:49,189
Speaker 1: want to go to the shops by myself.

1005
00:50:49,309 --> 00:50:52,109
Speaker 3: So this is definitely watching this great wreck.

1006
00:50:52,509 --> 00:50:53,789
Speaker 1: You know what, We'll put a link to all of

1007
00:50:53,789 --> 00:50:56,109
Speaker 1: our recks in the show notes in case your brain

1008
00:50:56,189 --> 00:50:58,429
Speaker 1: is a sieve. That is all we have time for

1009
00:50:58,509 --> 00:51:01,349
Speaker 1: this week on Parenting out Loud. Now, last week I

1010
00:51:01,429 --> 00:51:03,869
Speaker 1: told you something I was not supposed to tell you all.

1011
00:51:03,989 --> 00:51:06,629
Speaker 1: I said, Hey, we're in the Mom and mea out loud.

1012
00:51:06,349 --> 00:51:07,789
Speaker 3: Feed for just a few weeks.

1013
00:51:08,029 --> 00:51:11,229
Speaker 1: So if you like this show, come and follow it,

1014
00:51:11,269 --> 00:51:16,309
Speaker 1: because if you don't, it might not survive. That's actually

1015
00:51:16,309 --> 00:51:18,789
Speaker 1: a reality. I've got a fun fact for you both.

1016
00:51:19,429 --> 00:51:22,029
Speaker 1: There are ten times the amount of people listening to

1017
00:51:22,109 --> 00:51:24,429
Speaker 1: this in the Mama Mer out Loud feed compared to

1018
00:51:24,429 --> 00:51:27,109
Speaker 1: the Parenting Out Loud feed, one in ten people went

1019
00:51:27,149 --> 00:51:29,629
Speaker 1: and followed and the rest were like nah nah. So

1020
00:51:29,789 --> 00:51:31,909
Speaker 1: I want to say huge thank you to the people

1021
00:51:31,909 --> 00:51:34,789
Speaker 1: who did. You are elite, You're in the one percent.

1022
00:51:34,869 --> 00:51:37,669
Speaker 1: You are the early adopters. Thank you and for the

1023
00:51:37,709 --> 00:51:40,309
Speaker 1: rest of you. If you do like this show, come

1024
00:51:40,349 --> 00:51:42,789
Speaker 1: on over to the Parenting Out Loud feed and if not,

1025
00:51:42,989 --> 00:51:44,349
Speaker 1: you know what will be out of your hair in

1026
00:51:44,389 --> 00:51:47,549
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks. The best way to help us

1027
00:51:47,709 --> 00:51:50,069
Speaker 1: is to just do that. So search for Parenting Out

1028
00:51:50,109 --> 00:51:52,829
Speaker 1: Loud in your podcast app, find the show it's a

1029
00:51:52,829 --> 00:51:57,149
Speaker 1: purple logo, and hit follow and then maybe, just maybe

1030
00:51:57,189 --> 00:51:59,509
Speaker 1: we will get to number one ahead of Diary of

1031
00:51:59,589 --> 00:52:03,189
Speaker 1: a CEO. A huge thank you to our team the

1032
00:52:03,189 --> 00:52:06,669
Speaker 1: group ep is Ruth Devine, produces, Leah Porgus and Sashatanic

1033
00:52:06,989 --> 00:52:10,389
Speaker 1: and researcher Tessa Kotovich. Have a great week. I talked

1034
00:52:10,389 --> 00:52:11,469
Speaker 1: to you next Saturday morning.

1035
00:52:11,749 --> 00:52:14,869
Speaker 3: See then Bye

1036
00:52:18,429 --> 00:52:18,749
Speaker 2: MHM.