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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 1: You have to be quite calculated.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: You might go out to dinner and then you're like, Okay,

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Speaker 4: how many pills do I need? Where do I hide them?

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Speaker 4: If someone says, oh, can I borrow your lipstick and

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Speaker 4: they open your bag, you immediately panic, thinking, shit, are

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Speaker 4: they going to see these pills in there?

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Speaker 5: From MoMA Mia, you're listening to No Filter. I'm mea

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Speaker 5: friedman and it is pretty unusual for me to interview

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Speaker 5: the same person twice within the space of a year.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's ever happened before.

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Speaker 5: But the last time I sat down with Jackie O,

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Speaker 5: one half of the most successful radio duo in Australian history,

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Speaker 5: she had a secret not just from me, but from

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Speaker 5: almost everyone in her life. Her friends, her colleagues, the

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Speaker 5: men she'd begun dating after her divorce from the father

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Speaker 5: of her daughter Kitty, even from her co host Kyle Sandalance.

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Speaker 5: Nobody knew that Jackie O was addicted to pills and

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Speaker 5: alcohol and had been for years. The story they thought

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Speaker 5: they knew is.

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Speaker 2: That she'd lost a whole lot of weight.

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Speaker 5: Because she was on a zeenpic or because she'd had surgery.

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Speaker 5: That's what the gossip site said, and that's how the

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Speaker 5: room is wet. But everyone missed the real story, which

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Speaker 5: was so much bigger and deeper and more sad than

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Speaker 5: you would expect from someone who, from the outside anyways,

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Speaker 5: seemed so successful and so powerful and so glamorous. When

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Speaker 5: I last spoke to Jackie, it was a great conversation.

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Speaker 5: She was her usual down to earth self, deprecating, no bullshit,

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Speaker 5: funny self, despite having just signed a new ten year

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Speaker 5: contract for her radio show with Kyle that was worth

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Speaker 5: a reported one hundred million dollars. We spoke about that

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Speaker 5: on that episode, and we spoke about Kyle. But today

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Speaker 5: we're not talking about those things, not about money, not

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Speaker 5: about Kyle. Today we're talking about the secret that Jackie

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Speaker 5: has only just shared with the world in her memoir

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Speaker 5: called Suitably The Whole Truth. And today she also has

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Speaker 5: someone sitting beside her in the studio because Jemma O'Neil

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Speaker 5: is not only Jackie's best friend and her manager and

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Speaker 5: her business partner, she's the one who Jackie called when

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Speaker 5: she hit rock bottom on the darkest day of her life,

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Speaker 5: and to understand the story of Jackie's addiction and recovery

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Speaker 5: from the inside. I knew that I wanted to hear

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Speaker 5: Jemma's point of view as well. So let's jump in.

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Speaker 5: I should start at the beginning, but I want to

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Speaker 5: start in the middle, and I want to get my

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Speaker 5: timing right. There was a weekend in I think twenty

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Speaker 5: twenty two where there is a series of phone calls

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Speaker 5: that changed your life, Jack, and then your life Gemma.

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Speaker 5: The first phone call came to you Jack on a

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Speaker 5: Sunday morning from someone telling you that your life had

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Speaker 5: changed in a big way. Can you tell me about

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Speaker 5: where you were when that phone call arrived, like physically,

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Speaker 5: how are you feeling? What were you doing?

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Speaker 1: I think it was just a normal Sunday morning.

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Speaker 2: Which was what for you at that time.

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Speaker 4: So Gemma had been around the night before with another

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Speaker 4: friend of ours, Kim, and so we'd been drinking and having,

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Speaker 4: you know, a great girl's night, and I think I

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Speaker 4: would have finished up around two am, and then I

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Speaker 4: think around the time that I have no idea what

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Speaker 4: time I got up the next day actually, and it

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Speaker 4: was just probably me, you know, eating, drinking, watching TV.

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Speaker 4: And then I got a phone call from the person

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Speaker 4: who was supplying me with the painkillers, the only person

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Speaker 4: who has ever done that.

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Speaker 1: I've never been able to access them before like that.

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Speaker 4: And that person called me to say that they couldn't

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Speaker 4: do it anymore because they had been busted.

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Speaker 1: I was.

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Speaker 4: I took the call outside and I just remember thinking,

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Speaker 4: oh my god, this is it.

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Speaker 1: This is the moment I feared. What am I going

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Speaker 1: to do?

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Speaker 4: You know, all these thoughts run through your head of

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Speaker 4: like oh shit, now what like, you know, how am

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Speaker 4: I going to get out of this? How am I

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Speaker 4: going to taper off this kind of amount that I'm

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Speaker 4: taking of medication?

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Speaker 2: How long had you been taking it for?

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Speaker 4: Well, I would say it was the beginning of COVID

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Speaker 4: was when it got really bad. So it originally started

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Speaker 4: about fifteen years prior, when I had been prescribed a

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Speaker 4: really strong painkiller and don't which people know in Australia

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Speaker 4: is like oxy content in the strongest painkiller.

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Speaker 5: I think that, you kid, it's no, you can't get

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Speaker 5: it over counter. It's it's usually you get prescribed it

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Speaker 5: after an operation or you for endometriotis.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I had it for the endometriosis.

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Speaker 4: They'd given me other painkillers that weren't very effective, and

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Speaker 4: it was really severe pain at the time. And yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's it's very difficult to get end down rightly, so

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Speaker 4: in this country, and so that's where it started. And

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Speaker 4: then I think because you couldn't even access something like that,

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Speaker 4: you couldn't just even go doctor shopping for it, because

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Speaker 4: doctors are extremely aware that there are people out there

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Speaker 4: like me who are abusing it, and so.

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Speaker 5: Can you explain doctor shopping. One of the things I

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Speaker 5: found most interesting in your book was getting inside addiction,

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Speaker 5: and one of the things that came across so much

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Speaker 5: was how time consuming it is.

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Speaker 1: Time consuming so time like.

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Speaker 5: There's the money, there's all of those things, but it like,

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Speaker 5: what was the process of getting the amount of drugs

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Speaker 5: that you needed before you found this person who could

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Speaker 5: supply it.

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Speaker 4: Well, See, the thing is I got the intake increased

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Speaker 4: because of the person I ran into and because I

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Speaker 4: had access to it freely, it then increased tenfold very quickly.

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Speaker 4: So originally when I was prescribed the end domee, I

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Speaker 4: really wasn't taking it to it. It was it was

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Speaker 4: just one extra here and there when I was.

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Speaker 2: A lot to treat pain, to just take the edge.

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Speaker 4: Of Obviously it was originally to treat the pain, and

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Speaker 4: then it became like, oh, i'm having a really shit day,

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Speaker 4: I might take one of those because they give me

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Speaker 4: a really nice feeling. And so doctor shopping for something

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Speaker 4: like that is really awful. I can't even begin to

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Speaker 4: tell you. The whole thing feels just dirty, and you're

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Speaker 4: you know, you're lying. You know you're doing something wrong,

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Speaker 4: and you're not stopping yourself from doing it.

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Speaker 2: So you're famous.

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Speaker 5: How do you doctor shop when you're Jackie O and

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Speaker 5: you're that recognizable in waiting rooms? Yeahs by receptionists.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you go far and wide. That's the thing.

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Speaker 4: You try not to go to a doctor's surgery in

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Speaker 4: the same suburb too, in the same because who knows

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Speaker 4: if those people know each other, and we'll say, oh,

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Speaker 4: Jackie O came into the doctor surgery today, and the

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Speaker 4: other one goes, yeah, me too. You know, alarm bells

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Speaker 4: would go off. So it's incredibly devious behavior.

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Speaker 2: And what did you have to say to the doctors?

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Speaker 1: Would I would tell the truth?

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Speaker 4: But you know, it was it was as though I'd

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Speaker 4: also said that story to the other doctor, so I

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Speaker 4: was getting twice the amount I needed. So it wasn't

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Speaker 4: that I was lying about the pain. I was telling

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Speaker 4: them about the end of metriosis.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, a.

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Speaker 4: Lot of the time, every now and again a doctor

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Speaker 4: would go, I don't feel comfortable prescribing this.

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Speaker 2: And did you feel so ashamed when that happened?

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Speaker 1: I really did.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was That was the worst part is the

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Speaker 4: shame that comes with it.

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Speaker 2: How do you in that conversation, It's like, oh, okay.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you just exactly. You just go okay, and they go,

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Speaker 4: I'll prescribe you this instead.

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Speaker 5: And one time because you became worried that there would

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Speaker 5: be some central record. Yeah, so you knew you couldn't

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Speaker 5: give a false name, so you gave a false birthdate.

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Speaker 2: When did that go wrong?

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Speaker 4: I was just writing down whatever birthdate came to my mind.

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Speaker 4: When they give you the form to go and sit

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Speaker 4: down and write out your details. A couple of numbers, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: pick a couple of numbers. Any numbers doesn't matter. Actually

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Speaker 4: it does matter when it's February. Because I wrote February thirty.

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Speaker 4: I got busted. I went to the receptionist. She's typing

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Speaker 4: it in. She goes, wait, so your birthday is February

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Speaker 4: thirty and I no, she didn't even say February.

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Speaker 1: She went the thirtieth of the second. So I didn't

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Speaker 1: admit and I was like yeah, and oh god, again

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Speaker 1: the shame, the shame.

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Speaker 5: So oh.

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Speaker 4: That didn't last very long, the doctor shopping, because I

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Speaker 4: actually just thought, this is, this is you got to

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Speaker 4: stop like you're you're going to get in trouble here,

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Speaker 4: you know, and you're also going to where does it end?

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Speaker 1: You know? It will it will?

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Speaker 4: You'll want more and more if you keep taking more

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Speaker 4: than you should. So thankfully, I think due to that

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Speaker 4: lack of access, it stopped me from having a full

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Speaker 4: blown addiction back then, and so it didn't really this

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Speaker 4: oh well that was let me think I would have

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Speaker 4: been about it would have been maybe late twenties, early thirties,

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Speaker 4: I think when the end on one happened. And again

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't have called that an addiction. I think that

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Speaker 4: was an abuse. It was abusing something and taking it

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Speaker 4: a little bit recreationally, but not an addiction at that point,

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Speaker 4: although obviously the addictive behavior was coming out and so

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Speaker 4: it wasn't until probably twenty nineteen, I think late twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 4: twenty nineteen, so.

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Speaker 1: I had access to it and used it as a

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Speaker 1: coping mech.

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Speaker 5: Quite a few years later, and it's years in between.

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Speaker 5: Were you doctor shopping all of that time?

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Speaker 1: No? No, no, no, So you did stop? I did. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: It was almost like that was so much effort and

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Speaker 4: so much embarrassment came with that, and humiliation because even

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Speaker 4: sometimes when you were prescribed it, you could tell the

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Speaker 4: doctor was.

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Speaker 1: Almost looking at you like you were I used to

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Speaker 1: think to.

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Speaker 4: Myself, God, he's looking at me like I'm a junkie,

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Speaker 4: you know, And I thought, but you are a junkie

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Speaker 4: right now in this situation, you are pretty much like

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Speaker 4: I just thought. You know, it was too humiliating, and

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Speaker 4: I thankfully stop that because I can't. Doctor shopping is

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Speaker 4: incredibly time consuming.

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Speaker 2: Is that when you started drinking more?

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Speaker 4: No? Not even no, I didn't. Actually I never really

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Speaker 4: had a problem with drinking. I think, I would say,

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Speaker 4: you know, I guess it depends how you define a

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Speaker 4: problem with drinking. So I never really liked alcohol at all.

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Speaker 4: Kitty was born, and then suddenly it was a lot

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Speaker 4: was happening with my mad marriage and then a child

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Speaker 4: on top of that, and then we obviously refused any help.

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Speaker 4: We didn't get anyone on board, so it was just

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Speaker 4: Leah and I, which is fine, you know, it's absolutely manageable.

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Speaker 4: And I think because the problems we were having, I

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Speaker 4: don't know, I just felt like, oh, suddenly I was

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Speaker 4: wanting a glass of wine as soon as she went

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Speaker 4: to bed and so. But again, it wasn't that I

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Speaker 4: was drinking too much during that period, but I absolutely

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Speaker 4: did have one or two every single day for the

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Speaker 4: next thirteen years, or not thirteen actually because I went

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Speaker 4: to rehab when she was seven days a week, but

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Speaker 4: seven days a week and whilst I wasn't getting drunk

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Speaker 4: when I was in rehab, and went in there thinking, oh,

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Speaker 4: I'm not going to give up alcohol because I don't

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Speaker 4: have a problem with that.

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Speaker 1: Once I started writing down my relationship to.

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Speaker 4: Alcohol, I thought, well, if I haven't had one day

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Speaker 4: for the last ten eleven years without a glass of wine,

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Speaker 4: then maybe there is a problem there. I mean, you

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Speaker 4: don't have to be getting drunk every night and waking

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Speaker 4: up and drinking alcohol first thing in the morning to

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Speaker 4: have a problem with alcohol. And I think that's how

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Speaker 4: I always identified it's.

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Speaker 2: Like alcoholic adjacent, Yeah it is, or using it as

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Speaker 2: a crutch.

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Speaker 1: It's a dependency on it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure, when you got that phone call and

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Speaker 5: you think about how long had that person been in

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Speaker 5: your life who was supplying you with the pills?

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Speaker 4: Pretty much was soon as I ran into them is

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Speaker 4: when it started. So twenty nineteen I think that was.

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Speaker 4: And how would it work? Would you like text them?

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Speaker 5: Because I imagine they were not doing the right thing

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Speaker 5: and you were not doing the right thing, So how

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Speaker 5: did you actually do it? Because the risk of being

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Speaker 5: caught for both of you and the stakes for.

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Speaker 4: High Yeah, I didn't think about that. It's almost like

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Speaker 4: I didn't even want to think about that part.

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Speaker 5: It's actual because it wasn't like you weren't scoring heroine

249
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Speaker 5: then you weren't. I think it was like these were

250
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Speaker 5: just over the counter painkillers exactly.

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Speaker 4: I thought, well, these are legal, so therefore it's not

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Speaker 4: that big a deal.

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Speaker 1: That's what I told myself.

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Speaker 5: And did you feel shame when you spoke to this

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Speaker 5: person and you kept saying, I need like did you

256
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Speaker 5: get them by the box? Did you go and pick

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Speaker 5: them up from their house?

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Speaker 4: Like, no, I would, I would meet them, and it

259
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Speaker 4: was actually, yeah, so they I would meet them. I

260
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Speaker 4: don't want to give away who this person is, but

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Speaker 4: it's not. It's not like this kind of dodgy drug

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Speaker 4: deal in the middle. I'm not, you know, sitting in

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Speaker 4: their car and exchanging It wasn't quite like that.

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Speaker 2: But no, but it was like that. It just didn't

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Speaker 2: feel like that exactly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It wasn't like, you know, necessarily drug dealer type.

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Speaker 1: It was a situation. It was a different situation.

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Speaker 5: When you think about that person, how do you feel

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Speaker 5: about them?

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Speaker 4: That's a good question actually, because I know my friend

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Speaker 4: Gemma is angry with that person, but I am not

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Speaker 4: because I put them in that situation and I know

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Speaker 4: they gave me an extraordinarily large amount of medication.

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Speaker 1: But I can't turn around at the end of it

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Speaker 1: all and go, well, you shouldn't have done that. I

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Speaker 1: don't know.

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Speaker 4: I just I don't know what I was lying to

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Speaker 4: them as well. I mean, I wasn't saying it was

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Speaker 4: all for me. I was saying, oh, yeah, I've got

280
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Speaker 4: some people at work who need you know, still knocks

281
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Speaker 4: as well because we all work crazy hours.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so I was lying to them all.

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Speaker 5: Slight different with the many packets of neuropan plus and

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Speaker 5: painkillers that you needed though.

285
00:14:46,845 --> 00:14:49,645
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it was just because that's stuff you have

286
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Speaker 4: to go to a doctor and get prescribed it, and

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00:14:53,525 --> 00:14:55,805
Speaker 4: you know that used to be an over the counter

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Speaker 4: situation and you know they could access it and they

289
00:14:59,285 --> 00:15:01,765
Speaker 4: were like, yeah, okay, no wors you know, I.

290
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Speaker 2: Don't know do you have contact with them anymore?

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00:15:04,885 --> 00:15:05,325
Speaker 1: No?

292
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Speaker 4: No, no, ever since that day? I think it was.

293
00:15:08,885 --> 00:15:11,925
Speaker 4: That was it, you know, was done.

294
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Speaker 2: The next fine call you made after that.

295
00:15:15,165 --> 00:15:19,005
Speaker 1: One was to who Gemma my best friend?

296
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Speaker 2: What did you say to her?

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00:15:20,805 --> 00:15:22,645
Speaker 1: So? Why? Well?

298
00:15:22,765 --> 00:15:26,205
Speaker 4: I thought I needed someone who I knew could A

299
00:15:26,445 --> 00:15:29,965
Speaker 4: help me and b wouldn't judge me and was close

300
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Speaker 4: to me that I could trust. And Jemma knew everything

301
00:15:33,645 --> 00:15:36,365
Speaker 4: about me except that you know, she was the one

302
00:15:36,405 --> 00:15:39,605
Speaker 4: I would always talk to about any problem I had

303
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Speaker 4: in life and vice versa.

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Speaker 5: Interestingly, in the book, you talk about your assistant who's

305
00:15:45,205 --> 00:15:48,525
Speaker 5: been with you for ten years, Brett, who sounds amazing. Yeah,

306
00:15:48,525 --> 00:15:52,605
Speaker 5: and she knows everything about you, yes, including this. She's

307
00:15:52,645 --> 00:15:55,085
Speaker 5: the one person or the other person besides the person

308
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Speaker 5: who was supplying you with it.

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Speaker 2: Who did know.

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Speaker 5: And she would sometimes leave notes around the house. I

311
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Speaker 5: know because she would see all the empty blister packs

312
00:16:02,125 --> 00:16:06,085
Speaker 5: and she would witnessed you, you know, day and night,

313
00:16:07,245 --> 00:16:09,365
Speaker 5: and she'd watched you deteriorate along with other pe.

314
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Speaker 2: Why didn't you.

315
00:16:11,605 --> 00:16:12,925
Speaker 1: Call her first?

316
00:16:14,765 --> 00:16:17,125
Speaker 4: I don't feel I want to burden her with something

317
00:16:17,245 --> 00:16:20,285
Speaker 4: like that. I think with Britta and I, she is

318
00:16:20,805 --> 00:16:23,005
Speaker 4: like a big We always laugh. She's my big sister

319
00:16:23,125 --> 00:16:25,685
Speaker 4: because she's the protector, and she's the one that's always

320
00:16:25,965 --> 00:16:32,485
Speaker 4: trying to will in those days help me and I.

321
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Speaker 4: But she always has kept it professional. You know. She's

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00:16:37,165 --> 00:16:40,725
Speaker 4: always very careful not to cross the line where we

323
00:16:41,445 --> 00:16:44,965
Speaker 4: become best friends, and she's she's always mindful of that

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00:16:44,965 --> 00:16:47,525
Speaker 4: that there's a line like we don't cross. We're friends,

325
00:16:47,565 --> 00:16:51,405
Speaker 4: we're like sisters, but also we're not hanging out socializing

326
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Speaker 4: every single day. And I feel and so there has

327
00:16:55,005 --> 00:16:58,045
Speaker 4: been a certain level of professionalism with brittan Ie and

328
00:16:58,085 --> 00:16:58,925
Speaker 4: our relationship.

329
00:17:00,325 --> 00:17:01,605
Speaker 2: That must have been a big deal for her to

330
00:17:01,605 --> 00:17:02,445
Speaker 2: write those letters.

331
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Speaker 5: Oh absolutely, How did you feel when you saw them,

332
00:17:04,885 --> 00:17:07,005
Speaker 5: because that was the first time you'd had a mirror

333
00:17:07,045 --> 00:17:07,765
Speaker 5: held up to you.

334
00:17:07,885 --> 00:17:08,245
Speaker 1: Yeah.

335
00:17:09,725 --> 00:17:12,485
Speaker 4: Oh, I think when you're in and when you're in

336
00:17:12,525 --> 00:17:16,725
Speaker 4: the middle of an addiction and someone does that to you,

337
00:17:16,725 --> 00:17:19,205
Speaker 4: you don't sit there and go, oh my god, I

338
00:17:19,245 --> 00:17:22,085
Speaker 4: feel so ashamed. I feel so this. Oh I really

339
00:17:22,125 --> 00:17:25,725
Speaker 4: should get help. I can't believe she you just immediately

340
00:17:26,205 --> 00:17:28,645
Speaker 4: don't think about that. Let's not think about that. It's

341
00:17:28,725 --> 00:17:32,085
Speaker 4: just you just don't want denial, big denial.

342
00:17:32,365 --> 00:17:37,325
Speaker 1: Yeah.

343
00:17:37,365 --> 00:17:40,085
Speaker 5: After this short break, we hear from Gemma, who was

344
00:17:40,085 --> 00:17:43,165
Speaker 5: on the other end of that phone call, and we find.

345
00:17:42,965 --> 00:17:44,285
Speaker 2: Out what she did next.

346
00:17:47,405 --> 00:17:50,205
Speaker 5: So you called Gemma because she's the closest person to you,

347
00:17:50,445 --> 00:17:52,565
Speaker 5: and also she knows how to get shit done and

348
00:17:52,725 --> 00:17:56,085
Speaker 5: sort shit out. Yeah, which brings me to you, jem

349
00:17:56,205 --> 00:17:59,965
Speaker 5: and that weekend for you the night before when you'd

350
00:17:59,965 --> 00:18:03,405
Speaker 5: been over at Jack's house. Yeap, what did you notice

351
00:18:03,565 --> 00:18:05,965
Speaker 5: about her? And what had you noticed over what period

352
00:18:05,965 --> 00:18:07,005
Speaker 5: of time leading up to that?

353
00:18:07,965 --> 00:18:10,845
Speaker 3: I probably didn't notice much the night before, And in fact,

354
00:18:10,845 --> 00:18:12,205
Speaker 3: we was saying this the other day. It was quite

355
00:18:12,205 --> 00:18:16,085
Speaker 3: funny because I left earlier that night, which in nine sight,

356
00:18:16,405 --> 00:18:18,565
Speaker 3: thank god I did, because I needed my wits about

357
00:18:18,605 --> 00:18:22,565
Speaker 3: me the next day, it turned out. But I think

358
00:18:22,605 --> 00:18:25,885
Speaker 3: I left it like nine or ten that that night before,

359
00:18:26,365 --> 00:18:28,485
Speaker 3: and to be honest with you, there was nothing different

360
00:18:28,565 --> 00:18:30,925
Speaker 3: that night as opposed to any other night that we

361
00:18:30,965 --> 00:18:33,365
Speaker 3: would hang out or day we'd hang out. But the

362
00:18:33,485 --> 00:18:36,445
Speaker 3: consistent thing that I saw was that there was a

363
00:18:36,565 --> 00:18:40,685
Speaker 3: niggling feeling that something wasn't right. And I think that's

364
00:18:40,725 --> 00:18:43,005
Speaker 3: why I got so upset when I found out, because

365
00:18:43,045 --> 00:18:45,405
Speaker 3: I was angry at myself that I hadn't figured it out.

366
00:18:45,965 --> 00:18:50,525
Speaker 3: But there was always an excuse that I thought, like,

367
00:18:50,605 --> 00:18:53,245
Speaker 3: you know, whether it was Jack seemed really tired. Well, obviously,

368
00:18:53,285 --> 00:18:55,845
Speaker 3: it turns out she was taking fourteen still knoxes a day,

369
00:18:55,885 --> 00:18:57,725
Speaker 3: so of course she's going to be tired. But in

370
00:18:57,765 --> 00:19:00,405
Speaker 3: my head, i'd see her be really sleepy and tired,

371
00:19:00,445 --> 00:19:04,165
Speaker 3: and I'd think, well, she does breakfast hours and she's exhausted,

372
00:19:04,205 --> 00:19:08,445
Speaker 3: and you know, ability, Yeah, And so there was always.

373
00:19:08,125 --> 00:19:09,965
Speaker 1: Kind of a reason.

374
00:19:11,005 --> 00:19:13,005
Speaker 3: Or I'd noticed that we'd go out for dinner and

375
00:19:13,045 --> 00:19:15,405
Speaker 3: maybe we'd only had one or two glasses of wine

376
00:19:15,765 --> 00:19:18,205
Speaker 3: and I'm obviously still fine, and Jack would seem like

377
00:19:18,245 --> 00:19:20,925
Speaker 3: she was drunk, and I'd think, again, well, she.

378
00:19:20,805 --> 00:19:22,165
Speaker 1: You know, she doesn't get a lot of sleep.

379
00:19:22,285 --> 00:19:25,005
Speaker 3: So there was always this kind of I had this

380
00:19:25,245 --> 00:19:28,245
Speaker 3: justification in a way in my head, and I was.

381
00:19:29,005 --> 00:19:30,845
Speaker 3: I was at her all the time, like I was saying,

382
00:19:30,845 --> 00:19:32,405
Speaker 3: something's not right, and I think we should take you

383
00:19:32,445 --> 00:19:32,965
Speaker 3: to the doctor.

384
00:19:33,245 --> 00:19:36,445
Speaker 4: Well, during that time, I think about six weeks, maybe

385
00:19:36,445 --> 00:19:41,525
Speaker 4: even eight weeks prior I genuinely had gotten sick, had COVID.

386
00:19:41,725 --> 00:19:45,085
Speaker 1: Then I think it was like a lung or chest infection.

387
00:19:45,245 --> 00:19:46,725
Speaker 4: I just don't know what it was. But it was

388
00:19:46,845 --> 00:19:51,205
Speaker 4: constant coughing, being lethargic. And so I was sick for

389
00:19:51,245 --> 00:19:55,045
Speaker 4: this very long period of time, which I know was

390
00:19:55,085 --> 00:19:55,525
Speaker 4: for you.

391
00:19:55,765 --> 00:19:57,565
Speaker 1: Yeah, I should be getting better.

392
00:19:57,805 --> 00:20:00,605
Speaker 3: Yeah, because nothing was changing, I thought something's not right here.

393
00:20:00,765 --> 00:20:05,805
Speaker 3: But yeah, I guess I noticed small things, but it

394
00:20:05,925 --> 00:20:08,405
Speaker 3: never ever occurred to me.

395
00:20:08,605 --> 00:20:10,005
Speaker 1: That it would be it was.

396
00:20:10,525 --> 00:20:14,285
Speaker 3: But also I was with Jack all the time, and

397
00:20:14,325 --> 00:20:17,165
Speaker 3: she was very very good at hiding it, like there

398
00:20:17,245 --> 00:20:19,605
Speaker 3: was no signs add It's a crafty.

399
00:20:19,165 --> 00:20:19,605
Speaker 2: Aren't they?

400
00:20:20,445 --> 00:20:21,885
Speaker 1: One hundred percent? Yeah?

401
00:20:21,925 --> 00:20:22,725
Speaker 2: How hard is that?

402
00:20:23,125 --> 00:20:23,485
Speaker 1: Well?

403
00:20:23,765 --> 00:20:25,245
Speaker 2: How calculated do you have to be?

404
00:20:25,525 --> 00:20:27,205
Speaker 1: You have to be quite calculated.

405
00:20:27,285 --> 00:20:29,445
Speaker 4: You have to you know, you might go out to

406
00:20:29,485 --> 00:20:31,605
Speaker 4: dinner and then you're like, Okay, how many pills do

407
00:20:31,645 --> 00:20:31,885
Speaker 4: I need?

408
00:20:31,925 --> 00:20:32,805
Speaker 1: Where do I hide them?

409
00:20:32,805 --> 00:20:35,765
Speaker 4: If someone says, oh, can I borrow your lipstick and

410
00:20:35,805 --> 00:20:39,085
Speaker 4: they open your bag. You immediately panic, thinking, shit, are

411
00:20:39,085 --> 00:20:42,605
Speaker 4: they going to see these pills in there? You know,

412
00:20:42,685 --> 00:20:44,485
Speaker 4: so you have to hide them in the little back

413
00:20:44,485 --> 00:20:46,405
Speaker 4: pocket and then put tissues on top of it in

414
00:20:46,405 --> 00:20:48,605
Speaker 4: case someone goes to that back pocket and goes, oh,

415
00:20:48,645 --> 00:20:49,685
Speaker 4: I've lost my button?

416
00:20:49,685 --> 00:20:51,365
Speaker 1: Can I put it in your back pocket?

417
00:20:51,605 --> 00:20:54,005
Speaker 4: Then you have to take the pills and you have

418
00:20:54,085 --> 00:20:56,525
Speaker 4: to go to the bathroom and you know, figure out

419
00:20:56,565 --> 00:20:58,205
Speaker 4: if somebody in here are they going to look at

420
00:20:58,205 --> 00:21:01,325
Speaker 4: me at the basin with the water you just and

421
00:21:01,365 --> 00:21:05,605
Speaker 4: then just covering up of the actual the effect. Though,

422
00:21:06,645 --> 00:21:11,405
Speaker 4: that isn't hard because what happened was initially when in

423
00:21:11,485 --> 00:21:14,685
Speaker 4: twenty nineteen when I had started taking a still Knox

424
00:21:14,805 --> 00:21:18,885
Speaker 4: and some painkillers. I guess, like any drug, they had

425
00:21:19,005 --> 00:21:23,685
Speaker 4: a maximum effect and then the tolerance that gets built

426
00:21:23,765 --> 00:21:29,685
Speaker 4: up happens very very quickly, and so you're taking more

427
00:21:29,725 --> 00:21:33,525
Speaker 4: and more. But actually, if I'm really honest, I would

428
00:21:33,605 --> 00:21:37,125
Speaker 4: say the last year of my addiction, I felt nothing,

429
00:21:37,485 --> 00:21:40,285
Speaker 4: and I kept saying to myself, but why are you

430
00:21:40,365 --> 00:21:41,525
Speaker 4: continuing to take it?

431
00:21:41,565 --> 00:21:41,765
Speaker 6: Then?

432
00:21:41,885 --> 00:21:44,245
Speaker 4: Like, if you're not feeling anything anymore and it's not

433
00:21:44,325 --> 00:21:49,125
Speaker 4: giving you anything, why are you taking it? And I

434
00:21:49,125 --> 00:21:50,965
Speaker 4: think I just kept living in hope that it would

435
00:21:50,965 --> 00:21:52,845
Speaker 4: give me some sort of high. And the other thing

436
00:21:53,005 --> 00:21:57,445
Speaker 4: was that I didn't want to. I just didn't know

437
00:21:57,485 --> 00:21:59,325
Speaker 4: how to really come off it, because I knew on

438
00:21:59,365 --> 00:22:02,085
Speaker 4: the days I didn't have Kitty, I was taking that

439
00:22:02,245 --> 00:22:06,365
Speaker 4: usual amount. The days I had Kitty, when I would

440
00:22:06,445 --> 00:22:08,725
Speaker 4: take half a pill here and there, it was just

441
00:22:08,805 --> 00:22:12,565
Speaker 4: trying desperately to level me out, and those that feeling

442
00:22:13,325 --> 00:22:17,045
Speaker 4: was so awful that I just didn't want to experience that.

443
00:22:17,165 --> 00:22:19,285
Speaker 4: Either I don't know, I just keep going back to

444
00:22:19,365 --> 00:22:22,005
Speaker 4: this denial of like I don't even know what was

445
00:22:22,045 --> 00:22:24,965
Speaker 4: going on with me there, but it really genuinely was

446
00:22:24,965 --> 00:22:28,205
Speaker 4: hardly having an effect at all. So when you ask

447
00:22:28,405 --> 00:22:30,605
Speaker 4: how difficult is it to cover all of that up,

448
00:22:30,805 --> 00:22:35,885
Speaker 4: that part isn't wasn't even functioning so high functioning that

449
00:22:36,205 --> 00:22:40,005
Speaker 4: you know, it's just not even it's pointless even continuing.

450
00:22:40,245 --> 00:22:44,605
Speaker 3: So the next day that was interesting because then when

451
00:22:44,685 --> 00:22:48,725
Speaker 3: things did transfire, all these secrecy like elements would come

452
00:22:48,765 --> 00:22:51,005
Speaker 3: out so and it would all make sense. It'd be like, oh,

453
00:22:51,045 --> 00:22:53,805
Speaker 3: so is that why every time we'd go out you

454
00:22:53,925 --> 00:22:56,165
Speaker 3: was always adamant that your handbag, like no one could

455
00:22:56,205 --> 00:22:58,605
Speaker 3: touch your handbag or yeah, you'd always go to the

456
00:22:58,645 --> 00:23:01,005
Speaker 3: bathroom every time the food was put down.

457
00:23:01,045 --> 00:23:02,445
Speaker 1: And I was always perplexing, like.

458
00:23:03,565 --> 00:23:05,125
Speaker 2: Like reverse bulimia.

459
00:23:07,485 --> 00:23:09,765
Speaker 5: Because I was bollim when I was in my early

460
00:23:09,765 --> 00:23:12,885
Speaker 5: twenties and I'm thinking about all that strategized and be like, Okay,

461
00:23:12,885 --> 00:23:15,045
Speaker 5: so where will I be, where's the bathroom, who's going

462
00:23:15,125 --> 00:23:15,565
Speaker 5: to be in there?

463
00:23:15,605 --> 00:23:17,765
Speaker 2: What can I do? I need to do like all

464
00:23:17,805 --> 00:23:20,125
Speaker 2: the steps that you need to do to cover it up.

465
00:23:20,725 --> 00:23:23,605
Speaker 5: And it's like no one would have guessed when you

466
00:23:23,605 --> 00:23:26,405
Speaker 5: go to the bathroom always before the food comes, because you've.

467
00:23:26,285 --> 00:23:28,485
Speaker 1: Got to have it. If I've done it after, people

468
00:23:28,565 --> 00:23:30,005
Speaker 1: might have gone hang on a second.

469
00:23:30,285 --> 00:23:32,925
Speaker 4: And that's the thing. If anyone gets in the way

470
00:23:33,005 --> 00:23:38,485
Speaker 4: of your plan. Yes, like the yeah, just ruin my

471
00:23:38,525 --> 00:23:40,405
Speaker 4: whole night, Like you know, it's.

472
00:23:40,325 --> 00:23:44,085
Speaker 5: I still have anxiety dreams about having binged and being

473
00:23:44,165 --> 00:23:47,245
Speaker 5: not able to throw up. I still have those anxiety

474
00:23:47,325 --> 00:23:53,685
Speaker 5: dreams now because it's such a it's so ingrained. Yeah, yeah,

475
00:23:53,725 --> 00:23:55,965
Speaker 5: and it's it's well, it's like any it's like an

476
00:23:55,965 --> 00:24:00,805
Speaker 5: addictions and it's having to learn and having to learn

477
00:24:00,885 --> 00:24:03,325
Speaker 5: what it's about because it's not about.

478
00:24:03,285 --> 00:24:05,285
Speaker 2: The food or the alcohol or the pills or whatever,

479
00:24:05,405 --> 00:24:08,125
Speaker 2: it's about why you're using it.

480
00:24:08,765 --> 00:24:12,045
Speaker 5: What's interesting to me is reading your book and the

481
00:24:12,085 --> 00:24:16,725
Speaker 5: conversations is that no one had any idea, like like

482
00:24:16,805 --> 00:24:19,445
Speaker 5: it was the last thing. And I'm interested in what

483
00:24:19,525 --> 00:24:23,285
Speaker 5: that says about you and what everyone thinks about you.

484
00:24:24,365 --> 00:24:28,485
Speaker 5: And it made me think that everyone must think that

485
00:24:28,525 --> 00:24:35,925
Speaker 5: you're very dependable, responsible, grounded, like all of those things

486
00:24:35,725 --> 00:24:39,165
Speaker 5: that you wouldn't connect with addiction.

487
00:24:39,485 --> 00:24:39,845
Speaker 1: Yeah.

488
00:24:40,165 --> 00:24:45,725
Speaker 4: I think the main reason is that because I don't

489
00:24:45,925 --> 00:24:49,805
Speaker 4: do any kind of party drugs and really never have,

490
00:24:50,045 --> 00:24:54,205
Speaker 4: and I think I'm probably one of the only people

491
00:24:54,925 --> 00:24:56,765
Speaker 4: and I'm not even just talking about the entertainment or

492
00:24:58,045 --> 00:25:01,645
Speaker 4: I'm talking just in Sydney's Eastern suburbs for a start.

493
00:25:02,125 --> 00:25:05,965
Speaker 4: I reckon I'm one of the very rare people who

494
00:25:06,045 --> 00:25:07,605
Speaker 4: have never even tried coke.

495
00:25:08,165 --> 00:25:09,285
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh I have tried.

496
00:25:09,525 --> 00:25:12,565
Speaker 5: But I feel that way too, Like you can swim

497
00:25:12,605 --> 00:25:15,525
Speaker 5: in that circle and it's like you realize you're the

498
00:25:15,565 --> 00:25:18,205
Speaker 5: only one left at the table when everybody else has

499
00:25:18,205 --> 00:25:19,045
Speaker 5: gone to the bathroom.

500
00:25:19,125 --> 00:25:24,085
Speaker 4: Yeah, really everyone on there, I know, I know, and

501
00:25:24,165 --> 00:25:26,765
Speaker 4: so I think everyone always put me in that basket

502
00:25:26,805 --> 00:25:29,645
Speaker 4: of Oh, she just doesn't do drugs at all, And

503
00:25:30,125 --> 00:25:34,565
Speaker 4: so I think that was if anyone even had a

504
00:25:34,605 --> 00:25:37,645
Speaker 4: miniscule thought of that, they'd be like, oh, no, she

505
00:25:37,765 --> 00:25:40,365
Speaker 4: would never be doing that because she doesn't do This

506
00:25:40,645 --> 00:25:41,325
Speaker 4: is also.

507
00:25:41,845 --> 00:25:45,805
Speaker 5: Part of it that people don't think of prescription medication

508
00:25:45,885 --> 00:25:49,965
Speaker 5: as being addictive or something that people get addicted to, like.

509
00:25:50,405 --> 00:25:51,485
Speaker 1: I think I know that.

510
00:25:51,685 --> 00:25:54,565
Speaker 4: I was so confused about it when I heard Matthew

511
00:25:54,565 --> 00:25:56,525
Speaker 4: Perry had gotten addicted to painkillers.

512
00:25:56,525 --> 00:26:00,765
Speaker 1: I remember that. I remember thinking, who gets addicted to painkillers?

513
00:26:00,805 --> 00:26:03,365
Speaker 1: But I just thought they were by that too. Yeah,

514
00:26:03,605 --> 00:26:07,085
Speaker 1: I think why how you know it was so bad?

515
00:26:07,085 --> 00:26:09,845
Speaker 5: It was also hearing that you take sleeping It's like

516
00:26:10,325 --> 00:26:12,405
Speaker 5: what everyone always asks you is how do you get

517
00:26:12,485 --> 00:26:13,405
Speaker 5: up in the morning.

518
00:26:13,125 --> 00:26:14,805
Speaker 2: So early be so tired?

519
00:26:14,845 --> 00:26:18,205
Speaker 5: It's like, why would you be taking sleeping pills?

520
00:26:18,725 --> 00:26:21,365
Speaker 1: Good question, Yeah, if you.

521
00:26:21,325 --> 00:26:25,765
Speaker 5: Would be addicted to anything. Yeah, And probably that's why

522
00:26:25,765 --> 00:26:27,845
Speaker 5: the people around you didn't pick it either, because it's

523
00:26:27,925 --> 00:26:29,845
Speaker 5: quite easy to you know, we can all pick the

524
00:26:29,845 --> 00:26:32,925
Speaker 5: signs of someone who's who's on appers and who's high,

525
00:26:33,005 --> 00:26:36,325
Speaker 5: but when someone's just a bit tired or a bit

526
00:26:36,485 --> 00:26:38,525
Speaker 5: and as you say, when you're just taking it to

527
00:26:38,565 --> 00:26:39,085
Speaker 5: be normal.

528
00:26:39,325 --> 00:26:42,005
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that was what I was perplexed by

529
00:26:42,285 --> 00:26:46,125
Speaker 3: that day when they're all, you know, unraveled, because I

530
00:26:46,165 --> 00:26:47,565
Speaker 3: remember sitting and going.

531
00:26:50,245 --> 00:26:52,765
Speaker 4: I can I just say when I went into rehab,

532
00:26:53,165 --> 00:26:57,525
Speaker 4: I was the only person that was addicted to Everyone

533
00:26:57,565 --> 00:27:01,125
Speaker 4: went because it's ambient over there, and they're like ambient.

534
00:27:01,005 --> 00:27:03,525
Speaker 2: Like why people get addicted to stimulants?

535
00:27:03,765 --> 00:27:04,765
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do.

536
00:27:05,045 --> 00:27:08,285
Speaker 4: It was like I mean when I told them in

537
00:27:08,405 --> 00:27:11,925
Speaker 4: rehab that it was what I was taking. So they

538
00:27:11,965 --> 00:27:15,485
Speaker 4: call it Thailand Ole three over there, and obviously people

539
00:27:15,525 --> 00:27:20,405
Speaker 4: are in there mostly for meth fentanyl, alcohol. They're like

540
00:27:20,445 --> 00:27:23,405
Speaker 4: the three big ones, and I was the only one

541
00:27:23,445 --> 00:27:28,325
Speaker 4: in there for Thailand. They literally looked at me like Ossie,

542
00:27:28,325 --> 00:27:30,685
Speaker 4: white girl, she's addicted to Thailand.

543
00:27:30,765 --> 00:27:31,885
Speaker 1: Oh, this is so lame.

544
00:27:32,285 --> 00:27:33,285
Speaker 2: It's so suburban.

545
00:27:33,525 --> 00:27:35,605
Speaker 1: It's so suburban. That's often what.

546
00:27:35,605 --> 00:27:38,445
Speaker 5: People say about the things that women get addicted to

547
00:27:39,045 --> 00:27:42,245
Speaker 5: is because women have caring responsibilities, whether it's for children

548
00:27:42,325 --> 00:27:45,885
Speaker 5: or partners or parents, whatever, they're more likely to get

549
00:27:45,925 --> 00:27:48,205
Speaker 5: addicted to things that enable them to function, So things

550
00:27:48,245 --> 00:27:51,605
Speaker 5: like gambling, things like food, things like prescription medications.

551
00:27:51,645 --> 00:27:55,005
Speaker 4: It's something you can still function, but it's not you know,

552
00:27:55,085 --> 00:27:57,645
Speaker 4: you don't feel like you're going off the rails hardcore

553
00:27:57,885 --> 00:28:02,525
Speaker 4: with your addiction, which is really really is not the case.

554
00:28:02,885 --> 00:28:05,245
Speaker 4: And I think that that's my point in the book.

555
00:28:05,485 --> 00:28:07,885
Speaker 4: When I first got in there, I felt that way too.

556
00:28:07,965 --> 00:28:09,245
Speaker 4: It's like, hang on.

557
00:28:09,365 --> 00:28:11,565
Speaker 1: I've got the least scary.

558
00:28:11,205 --> 00:28:13,845
Speaker 4: Addiction in here, and everyone's looking at me like really,

559
00:28:14,045 --> 00:28:18,045
Speaker 4: like you're in rehab for that. But yeah, absolutely, Like

560
00:28:19,205 --> 00:28:22,045
Speaker 4: the problem I have is the same as the person

561
00:28:22,125 --> 00:28:24,925
Speaker 4: next to me, he's doing Heroin. We both have the

562
00:28:24,965 --> 00:28:28,805
Speaker 4: same problem, which is we're using that as a way.

563
00:28:28,645 --> 00:28:31,245
Speaker 1: To escape something else, and we need to address what

564
00:28:31,285 --> 00:28:31,725
Speaker 1: that is.

565
00:28:32,245 --> 00:28:34,645
Speaker 2: You're sitting here now talking very calmly about it.

566
00:28:36,165 --> 00:28:36,725
Speaker 1: What was that.

567
00:28:36,645 --> 00:28:38,605
Speaker 5: Phone call like from your point of view, Jim? When

568
00:28:38,645 --> 00:28:40,685
Speaker 5: she called you, you were in the car driving out

569
00:28:40,725 --> 00:28:43,405
Speaker 5: to the country. Yeah, on a lovely sunday.

570
00:28:43,165 --> 00:28:47,885
Speaker 3: Yes, I was, And so she sounded that quite hysterical

571
00:28:48,045 --> 00:28:51,525
Speaker 3: and was almost hyperventilating. So I knew it was bad,

572
00:28:51,845 --> 00:28:54,245
Speaker 3: whatever it was, And I pulled over because I thought

573
00:28:54,485 --> 00:28:57,005
Speaker 3: I can't be driving, like I kind of braced myself.

574
00:28:57,285 --> 00:28:59,125
Speaker 1: I could tell the severity very quickly.

575
00:29:00,005 --> 00:29:01,045
Speaker 2: And someone died.

576
00:29:01,085 --> 00:29:04,205
Speaker 3: Maybe I did, actually, yeah, I thought something had happened, yeah,

577
00:29:04,245 --> 00:29:07,645
Speaker 3: to someone that we own. And then she managed to

578
00:29:07,685 --> 00:29:09,925
Speaker 3: get out the words because I was saying, just told me,

579
00:29:10,005 --> 00:29:12,405
Speaker 3: whatever it is, just say it, just say it. And

580
00:29:12,445 --> 00:29:14,645
Speaker 3: she managed to kind of spit out the words in

581
00:29:14,685 --> 00:29:18,125
Speaker 3: between the sobs of I've done something really stupid. That's

582
00:29:18,165 --> 00:29:18,925
Speaker 3: all she kept saying.

583
00:29:18,965 --> 00:29:21,725
Speaker 1: And I still was like, what does that mean?

584
00:29:23,045 --> 00:29:26,445
Speaker 3: I said what, And then she eventually got out the

585
00:29:26,445 --> 00:29:29,805
Speaker 3: words of I've been taking pills. And that's all she

586
00:29:29,925 --> 00:29:33,045
Speaker 3: said to me was I've been taking pills. And immediately

587
00:29:33,205 --> 00:29:35,765
Speaker 3: everything was like the penny dropped for me.

588
00:29:36,085 --> 00:29:36,965
Speaker 1: I was like, so you.

589
00:29:36,925 --> 00:29:39,765
Speaker 5: Didn't think she meant I've been taking pills this morning

590
00:29:39,885 --> 00:29:40,565
Speaker 5: or last night.

591
00:29:40,645 --> 00:29:41,525
Speaker 2: You knew straight away.

592
00:29:41,565 --> 00:29:44,085
Speaker 3: I figured it was like you know that domino effect.

593
00:29:44,085 --> 00:29:46,805
Speaker 3: I just figured the whole sequence of everything out and

594
00:29:46,845 --> 00:29:47,725
Speaker 3: it all made sense.

595
00:29:47,845 --> 00:29:49,085
Speaker 1: And then I think he said.

596
00:29:48,965 --> 00:29:52,885
Speaker 3: And the person I was getting them from has just

597
00:29:52,965 --> 00:29:55,325
Speaker 3: been busted, and I don't know what to do. And

598
00:29:55,365 --> 00:29:58,805
Speaker 3: I've never ever heard Jack in that state before, and

599
00:29:58,885 --> 00:30:03,445
Speaker 3: so all I said was, I said, just just sit tight,

600
00:30:03,525 --> 00:30:04,085
Speaker 3: I'll be there.

601
00:30:04,565 --> 00:30:05,725
Speaker 1: I'll be there in two hours.

602
00:30:05,765 --> 00:30:08,965
Speaker 3: And I turned around and I drove straight back where

603
00:30:08,965 --> 00:30:11,565
Speaker 3: you go house. I was going down to the Southern

604
00:30:11,605 --> 00:30:14,005
Speaker 3: Highlands south of Sydney, so I was pretty much close

605
00:30:14,045 --> 00:30:15,765
Speaker 3: to where I was going, and so I turned around and.

606
00:30:15,805 --> 00:30:16,925
Speaker 2: Drove change of plans.

607
00:30:17,125 --> 00:30:18,565
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I.

608
00:30:18,565 --> 00:30:21,165
Speaker 3: Didn't know what the pills were or how many she

609
00:30:21,285 --> 00:30:23,725
Speaker 3: was taking. I didn't know any of that. But I

610
00:30:24,045 --> 00:30:26,405
Speaker 3: just had a gut feeling that it wasn't going to

611
00:30:26,445 --> 00:30:29,125
Speaker 3: be like I'm taking one pill here and there. I

612
00:30:29,525 --> 00:30:32,485
Speaker 3: just had this innate feeling that it was quite severe.

613
00:30:33,085 --> 00:30:35,125
Speaker 2: And so, you know, what did you do in the

614
00:30:35,125 --> 00:30:36,605
Speaker 2: car on the way home, I mean, on the way

615
00:30:36,645 --> 00:30:37,165
Speaker 2: back to Jack.

616
00:30:37,445 --> 00:30:41,165
Speaker 1: That's a good question. I've never asked that. Actually, well, no,

617
00:30:41,285 --> 00:30:42,765
Speaker 1: you do know I called That's what I know. But

618
00:30:42,925 --> 00:30:46,805
Speaker 1: I didn't know know that. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, so

619
00:30:46,965 --> 00:30:48,805
Speaker 1: I actually didn't do it. Did it take you before

620
00:30:48,845 --> 00:30:53,125
Speaker 1: you decided to call Betty? About an hour?

621
00:30:53,685 --> 00:30:55,805
Speaker 5: Some people are good in a crisis. I'm really good

622
00:30:55,845 --> 00:30:57,685
Speaker 5: in a crisis, as long as the crisis isn't happening

623
00:30:57,765 --> 00:31:00,925
Speaker 5: to me. Yeah, it really focuses my thoughts. I know

624
00:31:01,005 --> 00:31:01,925
Speaker 5: exactly what to do.

625
00:31:02,125 --> 00:31:04,245
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm a very sounds I killed that. Yeah, I've

626
00:31:04,245 --> 00:31:06,805
Speaker 3: always been like that. I don't know why, but I

627
00:31:06,885 --> 00:31:09,765
Speaker 3: have that too. And so I sat with it, and

628
00:31:09,805 --> 00:31:11,845
Speaker 3: I just sat with my own thoughts for the first

629
00:31:11,925 --> 00:31:13,965
Speaker 3: hour of driving, and I think I was also trying

630
00:31:13,965 --> 00:31:17,125
Speaker 3: to piece some things together in my head. I was like, oh,

631
00:31:17,205 --> 00:31:19,805
Speaker 3: she you know, she's probably been doing it. I was

632
00:31:19,805 --> 00:31:21,925
Speaker 3: trying to, you know, figure out the timeline, I guess,

633
00:31:22,765 --> 00:31:26,165
Speaker 3: and then I started to think, Okay, let's prepare for

634
00:31:26,245 --> 00:31:28,685
Speaker 3: all situations here, because that's my nature.

635
00:31:29,165 --> 00:31:29,925
Speaker 1: I'm a planner.

636
00:31:30,485 --> 00:31:33,205
Speaker 3: And so I thought, if it is an addiction, and

637
00:31:33,245 --> 00:31:35,485
Speaker 3: if it has been going on for a while, then

638
00:31:35,725 --> 00:31:38,445
Speaker 3: the fact that she's told me, I need to act quickly.

639
00:31:38,645 --> 00:31:40,605
Speaker 3: Like I knew there were certain things, and I've had

640
00:31:40,725 --> 00:31:43,125
Speaker 3: some experience. I've been around other people that have had

641
00:31:43,165 --> 00:31:47,085
Speaker 3: addiction and successfully overcome them, and so I knew that

642
00:31:47,245 --> 00:31:49,245
Speaker 3: if it was that, I needed to be prepared and

643
00:31:49,285 --> 00:31:52,885
Speaker 3: I need to act immediately. So I kind of started thinking, well,

644
00:31:52,885 --> 00:31:54,965
Speaker 3: if it's that, this is what we'll do. And if

645
00:31:54,965 --> 00:31:56,885
Speaker 3: it's not that, you know, this is what we'll do.

646
00:31:56,925 --> 00:32:00,645
Speaker 3: And I started putting scenarios in my head to prepare

647
00:32:00,685 --> 00:32:03,285
Speaker 3: for the worst case scenario, which is what I did

648
00:32:03,325 --> 00:32:06,405
Speaker 3: think it was. I thought, well, I'm going to find

649
00:32:06,405 --> 00:32:09,005
Speaker 3: out if I can even get her in somewhere. And

650
00:32:09,045 --> 00:32:12,565
Speaker 3: I also never contemplated it being in Australia for a

651
00:32:12,645 --> 00:32:13,565
Speaker 3: number of reasons.

652
00:32:14,645 --> 00:32:17,645
Speaker 1: First of all, I just thought.

653
00:32:17,365 --> 00:32:19,405
Speaker 3: That it would be a media circus and if she

654
00:32:19,565 --> 00:32:23,525
Speaker 3: was genuinely unwell, as her friend, selfishly, I wanted her

655
00:32:23,525 --> 00:32:26,325
Speaker 3: to get better, and so I thought, if it's in Australia,

656
00:32:27,045 --> 00:32:28,925
Speaker 3: she won't be able to do that, just because the

657
00:32:29,005 --> 00:32:31,885
Speaker 3: chances are too high that it'll get out. And I

658
00:32:31,925 --> 00:32:34,685
Speaker 3: also thought she'd probably if it did get out, then

659
00:32:34,725 --> 00:32:36,805
Speaker 3: she'd probably use it as an excuse to say I

660
00:32:36,845 --> 00:32:39,685
Speaker 3: can't stay here anymore. And so I wanted to eliminate

661
00:32:39,845 --> 00:32:43,245
Speaker 3: all options of her being able to not get successful treatment.

662
00:32:44,165 --> 00:32:46,645
Speaker 3: I did have friends who had gone to Betty Ford.

663
00:32:46,685 --> 00:32:48,725
Speaker 3: I lived in America for quite a long time, and

664
00:32:48,805 --> 00:32:52,205
Speaker 3: so I knew that their program was a legitimate program

665
00:32:52,285 --> 00:32:55,125
Speaker 3: and that I'd seen other people recover very successfully.

666
00:32:55,605 --> 00:32:58,405
Speaker 5: When I heard the audio of you sang it on

667
00:32:58,445 --> 00:33:00,565
Speaker 5: the show about Betty Ford, I.

668
00:33:00,485 --> 00:33:05,605
Speaker 2: Was like, Betty fool, that's so retro. Yeah, I didn't

669
00:33:05,645 --> 00:33:07,965
Speaker 2: even know it was kind of still around.

670
00:33:08,125 --> 00:33:11,405
Speaker 6: YEA Betty four Center was founded in nineteen eighty two

671
00:33:11,565 --> 00:33:15,405
Speaker 6: by former First Lady Betty Ford. After admissions, you'll be

672
00:33:15,645 --> 00:33:18,845
Speaker 6: escorted to the medical and detoxification.

673
00:33:18,085 --> 00:33:19,445
Speaker 1: Unit, in the medical unit.

674
00:33:19,485 --> 00:33:22,005
Speaker 6: You'll be evaluated by our team of positions and it

675
00:33:22,045 --> 00:33:24,485
Speaker 6: will be determined when it's appropriate to move you over

676
00:33:24,525 --> 00:33:27,565
Speaker 6: to one of the residential halls. Our medical staff is

677
00:33:27,605 --> 00:33:29,925
Speaker 6: here twenty four to seven to make you as comfortable

678
00:33:29,925 --> 00:33:30,605
Speaker 6: as possible.

679
00:33:31,245 --> 00:33:34,365
Speaker 5: Like, surely there are more modern ones, more fancy ones,

680
00:33:34,445 --> 00:33:38,525
Speaker 5: more upgraded worries, And why did you choose that?

681
00:33:39,205 --> 00:33:43,205
Speaker 3: Because I had experience with other people going there, and

682
00:33:43,245 --> 00:33:45,645
Speaker 3: I knew from the other people that had gone there

683
00:33:46,085 --> 00:33:49,005
Speaker 3: that it wasn't a fancy one and that it wasn't

684
00:33:49,325 --> 00:33:51,325
Speaker 3: a day spa situation.

685
00:33:51,925 --> 00:33:52,965
Speaker 1: It was doing the work.

686
00:33:53,205 --> 00:33:56,045
Speaker 3: It was a real program, And so I think it

687
00:33:56,125 --> 00:33:58,405
Speaker 3: was just because I knew it, I thought, well, that's

688
00:33:58,445 --> 00:33:59,125
Speaker 3: my default.

689
00:33:59,125 --> 00:34:00,525
Speaker 1: I'm just going to go there.

690
00:34:01,325 --> 00:34:04,205
Speaker 3: And so I called them when I was about thirty

691
00:34:04,245 --> 00:34:07,605
Speaker 3: minutes out from arriving at Jack's, and I said to them,

692
00:34:08,005 --> 00:34:10,085
Speaker 3: I have a friend who's just admitted this to me.

693
00:34:10,205 --> 00:34:12,365
Speaker 3: I don't know the severity of the situation, but I

694
00:34:12,405 --> 00:34:14,365
Speaker 3: wanted to know, do you have any spots available? And

695
00:34:14,405 --> 00:34:16,405
Speaker 3: I also know it's quite hard to get spots in there,

696
00:34:17,285 --> 00:34:19,245
Speaker 3: just because they have a wait list and you know,

697
00:34:19,485 --> 00:34:22,805
Speaker 3: And the lady said to me, we have one spot

698
00:34:22,845 --> 00:34:25,165
Speaker 3: available and it's available from this Sunday. And I said

699
00:34:25,165 --> 00:34:28,165
Speaker 3: I'll take it. And so so it was a week out.

700
00:34:28,485 --> 00:34:31,405
Speaker 3: It was a week out, yeah, and I said I'll

701
00:34:31,405 --> 00:34:33,605
Speaker 3: take it. And I said, I'll confirm. I'll call you

702
00:34:33,645 --> 00:34:35,765
Speaker 3: back and confirm it in a couple of hours.

703
00:34:35,885 --> 00:34:36,885
Speaker 1: He's all my details.

704
00:34:37,085 --> 00:34:38,445
Speaker 2: How much does it cost?

705
00:34:39,405 --> 00:34:43,245
Speaker 4: I can't It's about like thirty eight forty yeah, for

706
00:34:43,445 --> 00:34:44,605
Speaker 4: the month, for the month.

707
00:34:44,725 --> 00:34:46,965
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you got to Jack's house.

708
00:34:47,285 --> 00:34:49,725
Speaker 2: Yeah, what did you discover? What state was she in?

709
00:34:50,365 --> 00:34:53,245
Speaker 1: She was not in a great state. I never driving.

710
00:34:53,325 --> 00:34:55,205
Speaker 1: Not your best day, Yeah, definitely not.

711
00:34:55,645 --> 00:34:57,885
Speaker 3: I never really like reliving it because every time we

712
00:34:57,965 --> 00:34:59,165
Speaker 3: do it makes it really upset.

713
00:34:59,205 --> 00:35:02,125
Speaker 1: But I'll do my best.

714
00:35:02,405 --> 00:35:05,325
Speaker 3: I think it was just very It just broke my

715
00:35:05,445 --> 00:35:08,845
Speaker 3: heart to see her like that. To see anyone like

716
00:35:08,885 --> 00:35:13,405
Speaker 3: that is very confronting because she just was so lost

717
00:35:13,565 --> 00:35:18,725
Speaker 3: and so empty and broken. And I think because she

718
00:35:18,885 --> 00:35:21,485
Speaker 3: finally said it, she was letting.

719
00:35:21,285 --> 00:35:25,445
Speaker 1: All the emotion out, I imagine, and so she was

720
00:35:25,645 --> 00:35:30,085
Speaker 1: very It was like she was almost like.

721
00:35:30,045 --> 00:35:33,045
Speaker 3: A child in that moment, Like it felt like she

722
00:35:33,165 --> 00:35:35,765
Speaker 3: was a child that was desperate to be rescued, and

723
00:35:35,805 --> 00:35:38,845
Speaker 3: she was you know, struggling to breathe. We had to

724
00:35:38,885 --> 00:35:41,845
Speaker 3: do a few breathing exercises, and she was having panic,

725
00:35:41,965 --> 00:35:45,645
Speaker 3: like panic attacks and things. So but it was also

726
00:35:45,965 --> 00:35:48,765
Speaker 3: her you know, rock bottom moment, so to speak, because

727
00:35:49,525 --> 00:35:51,965
Speaker 3: had she not got the earlier phone call, we wouldn't

728
00:35:51,965 --> 00:35:54,765
Speaker 3: have been in that position. And so I was able

729
00:35:54,805 --> 00:35:57,365
Speaker 3: to get pretty much everything out of her straight away,

730
00:35:57,405 --> 00:35:59,445
Speaker 3: Like you didn't hold a lot. I think she was like, well,

731
00:35:59,445 --> 00:36:01,685
Speaker 3: it's done now, so I may as well admit to everything.

732
00:36:01,725 --> 00:36:03,725
Speaker 3: And so that's when I said, what are the pills?

733
00:36:04,085 --> 00:36:06,965
Speaker 3: How often are you taking them? And I was very

734
00:36:07,005 --> 00:36:09,805
Speaker 3: shocked by the amount because I was my head, I'm

735
00:36:09,845 --> 00:36:13,445
Speaker 3: thinking that's close to forty pills a day in total

736
00:36:13,485 --> 00:36:16,285
Speaker 3: that you're taking. And so but i'd like to think

737
00:36:16,525 --> 00:36:18,565
Speaker 3: I don't know if this was the case, but I'd

738
00:36:18,565 --> 00:36:20,325
Speaker 3: like to think I never once judged.

739
00:36:20,365 --> 00:36:21,085
Speaker 1: I never once.

740
00:36:21,685 --> 00:36:24,205
Speaker 3: All I did was I wanted her to feel I

741
00:36:24,285 --> 00:36:27,165
Speaker 3: wanted her to feel my compassion, and I wanted her

742
00:36:27,205 --> 00:36:29,365
Speaker 3: to feel nurtured, and I wanted her to feel safe.

743
00:36:29,405 --> 00:36:33,085
Speaker 3: And that was the primary thing for me, was to

744
00:36:33,125 --> 00:36:35,085
Speaker 3: make her know she was in a safe space and

745
00:36:35,125 --> 00:36:36,845
Speaker 3: that I was going to make sure she was okay.

746
00:36:37,525 --> 00:36:41,405
Speaker 3: And I think because hopefully she felt that she was

747
00:36:42,245 --> 00:36:44,645
Speaker 3: able to really let everything out.

748
00:36:44,845 --> 00:36:48,085
Speaker 5: Yeahhack, the two hours between when you called jem and

749
00:36:48,125 --> 00:36:50,325
Speaker 5: when she arrived at your house, what were they like

750
00:36:50,405 --> 00:36:52,325
Speaker 5: for you? What did you do in those two hours?

751
00:36:52,405 --> 00:36:53,965
Speaker 1: I feel like that was a bit of a blur,

752
00:36:54,245 --> 00:36:54,925
Speaker 1: to be honest.

753
00:36:55,125 --> 00:37:00,525
Speaker 4: I think it was part shock, part relief, part terrified.

754
00:37:01,165 --> 00:37:03,445
Speaker 4: I think it was all those three things. You know,

755
00:37:03,485 --> 00:37:06,725
Speaker 4: when you let the steam out finally of the pressure cooker,

756
00:37:06,805 --> 00:37:11,245
Speaker 4: it's like, oh wow, okay, it's out there. So there

757
00:37:11,285 --> 00:37:14,005
Speaker 4: was that, and that was There was relief in that

758
00:37:14,205 --> 00:37:17,085
Speaker 4: for sure, but it was also what does this mean?

759
00:37:17,205 --> 00:37:21,765
Speaker 1: Now? What does this mean for me? Where do I

760
00:37:21,845 --> 00:37:23,485
Speaker 1: What is jem I going to say? What am I

761
00:37:23,485 --> 00:37:24,125
Speaker 1: gonna have to do?

762
00:37:24,325 --> 00:37:26,845
Speaker 4: I actually didn't think she'd say rehab, So I don't

763
00:37:26,845 --> 00:37:29,205
Speaker 4: know why I didn't think that, but I thought, oh, no,

764
00:37:29,285 --> 00:37:29,645
Speaker 4: we're fine.

765
00:37:29,685 --> 00:37:31,405
Speaker 1: I've got enough to taper off. We're all good.

766
00:37:33,805 --> 00:37:36,445
Speaker 5: After the short break, Gemma makes a plan in the

767
00:37:36,445 --> 00:37:39,965
Speaker 5: way that only best friends can, and Jackie has to

768
00:37:39,965 --> 00:37:42,845
Speaker 5: share the truth with her ex husband Lee and her

769
00:37:42,885 --> 00:37:44,125
Speaker 5: work husband Kyle.

770
00:37:44,605 --> 00:37:46,205
Speaker 2: Stay with us, We'll be right back.

771
00:37:49,205 --> 00:37:51,365
Speaker 5: So your plan, because you had about two weeks of

772
00:37:51,405 --> 00:37:54,565
Speaker 5: stash to taper off, and you knew it was going

773
00:37:54,605 --> 00:37:57,205
Speaker 5: to be tricky. Yeah, but your hand had been forced.

774
00:37:57,245 --> 00:37:58,325
Speaker 5: So that was your plan.

775
00:37:58,405 --> 00:37:59,125
Speaker 1: That was my plan?

776
00:37:59,365 --> 00:38:01,805
Speaker 2: Yeap? What did Jim think of that plan?

777
00:38:02,005 --> 00:38:02,365
Speaker 1: Terrible?

778
00:38:03,245 --> 00:38:07,005
Speaker 4: Because she said to me rightly, so no, no, no,

779
00:38:07,165 --> 00:38:10,125
Speaker 4: that won't work. And I said, yeah, will, I said,

780
00:38:10,125 --> 00:38:13,005
Speaker 4: because I have no one to get this stuff off,

781
00:38:13,045 --> 00:38:15,405
Speaker 4: so I have no choice now, and she goes, no,

782
00:38:15,685 --> 00:38:18,485
Speaker 4: you will find a way to get it. And I

783
00:38:18,565 --> 00:38:21,885
Speaker 4: know that you will unless you fix the actual.

784
00:38:21,525 --> 00:38:23,485
Speaker 2: Problem or replace it with someone that's something else.

785
00:38:23,525 --> 00:38:25,005
Speaker 1: That's right, Yes, And I would have.

786
00:38:24,965 --> 00:38:26,925
Speaker 2: Because you understood addiction, yehas you?

787
00:38:27,085 --> 00:38:28,205
Speaker 1: I didn't.

788
00:38:28,245 --> 00:38:30,125
Speaker 2: Did you think of yourself as an addict yet or that?

789
00:38:30,925 --> 00:38:33,245
Speaker 1: Yeah? No, I knew obviously I was an addict. What

790
00:38:33,285 --> 00:38:36,925
Speaker 1: did you? Oh? Yeah, I didn't think you did based

791
00:38:36,965 --> 00:38:39,445
Speaker 1: on that. Sorry, yeah, I didn't.

792
00:38:39,565 --> 00:38:41,805
Speaker 4: I knew I was an addict, but I didn't understand

793
00:38:41,885 --> 00:38:44,805
Speaker 4: what an addict was, right. So I when I say

794
00:38:44,805 --> 00:38:47,405
Speaker 4: I didn't understand what an addict was, I just meant

795
00:38:47,925 --> 00:38:51,285
Speaker 4: I had become addicted to something, but I could easily

796
00:38:51,445 --> 00:38:56,005
Speaker 4: just taper off and stop. And I didn't understand that

797
00:38:56,085 --> 00:38:58,045
Speaker 4: addiction is so much more than that.

798
00:38:58,485 --> 00:39:01,965
Speaker 5: Yeah, right, Like in some people, I'm addicted to coffee

799
00:39:01,965 --> 00:39:03,125
Speaker 5: and I'm addicted to work.

800
00:39:03,205 --> 00:39:06,005
Speaker 1: It's like it's a different thing. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

801
00:39:06,445 --> 00:39:08,445
Speaker 2: Addicts can be really hard to reason with.

802
00:39:08,965 --> 00:39:12,125
Speaker 5: And something that we haven't really touched on is the

803
00:39:12,485 --> 00:39:20,205
Speaker 5: duality of your friendship between friends but also your Jack's manager, agent, manager.

804
00:39:20,005 --> 00:39:22,845
Speaker 1: Both, yeah, personally all of it.

805
00:39:23,045 --> 00:39:26,005
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, which is kind of means Jack's the boss

806
00:39:26,005 --> 00:39:27,765
Speaker 5: of you and kind of means you're the boss of Jack.

807
00:39:27,965 --> 00:39:28,245
Speaker 1: Yes.

808
00:39:29,685 --> 00:39:35,165
Speaker 5: How did you navigate that in the conversations that you

809
00:39:35,205 --> 00:39:36,965
Speaker 5: had to have on that day when you were saying

810
00:39:37,325 --> 00:39:39,645
Speaker 5: you're going to rehab and Jack's like, no, not, I

811
00:39:39,645 --> 00:39:40,205
Speaker 5: don't need to.

812
00:39:42,085 --> 00:39:44,285
Speaker 3: Well, it was always the lens of a friend, and

813
00:39:44,365 --> 00:39:47,045
Speaker 3: we always put our friendship first. Like we've worked together

814
00:39:47,085 --> 00:39:50,285
Speaker 3: for many, many years in different capacities, so that's not

815
00:39:50,405 --> 00:39:53,565
Speaker 3: unusual for us. But our friendship's always come first.

816
00:39:53,605 --> 00:39:55,805
Speaker 5: But a friend can't force another friend to do something.

817
00:39:55,925 --> 00:40:01,085
Speaker 5: Whereas you had everything in your hand, because you obviously

818
00:40:01,205 --> 00:40:05,165
Speaker 5: knew if you have an accident, if you get busted, Yeah,

819
00:40:05,645 --> 00:40:08,125
Speaker 5: you know, there's a lot at stake here apart from

820
00:40:08,365 --> 00:40:10,125
Speaker 5: your actual health safety.

821
00:40:10,205 --> 00:40:13,565
Speaker 4: Well, I'll just can I because so Gemma had only

822
00:40:13,725 --> 00:40:17,925
Speaker 4: just become my manager, not long into it, like we

823
00:40:18,005 --> 00:40:21,365
Speaker 4: had just decided on that it's a fast art. Yeah,

824
00:40:21,605 --> 00:40:24,685
Speaker 4: wasn't it to talk about throwing her into the deep end.

825
00:40:25,365 --> 00:40:28,405
Speaker 4: But in the past when things like this have come up,

826
00:40:28,445 --> 00:40:33,205
Speaker 4: certainly never anything like what happened then, but little things.

827
00:40:33,805 --> 00:40:40,125
Speaker 4: Gemma is really good in keeping me on I guess advice,

828
00:40:40,325 --> 00:40:44,605
Speaker 4: and I've always taken her advice very seriously, And I.

829
00:40:44,565 --> 00:40:47,125
Speaker 1: Think it goes back to our friendship.

830
00:40:47,285 --> 00:40:50,725
Speaker 4: Really started to bond tightly when she became EP of

831
00:40:50,805 --> 00:40:54,045
Speaker 4: the show. So she would always say to me, I

832
00:40:54,085 --> 00:40:55,845
Speaker 4: think it's a good idea if you do this, I

833
00:40:55,885 --> 00:40:57,845
Speaker 4: think this is great. I think you know, this will

834
00:40:57,885 --> 00:41:00,365
Speaker 4: sound really good on air, and I know it's uncomfortable,

835
00:41:01,045 --> 00:41:04,485
Speaker 4: and so I've always really valued her advice. And I

836
00:41:04,525 --> 00:41:08,325
Speaker 4: think that day when you said about the rehab, I

837
00:41:08,365 --> 00:41:11,205
Speaker 4: can't speak for you, but I never felt for a

838
00:41:11,245 --> 00:41:15,805
Speaker 4: second you had any managerial or career hat on at.

839
00:41:15,685 --> 00:41:17,845
Speaker 1: All at all. Yeah, I didn't at all.

840
00:41:18,085 --> 00:41:21,165
Speaker 5: And did you have jack that muscle memory of she

841
00:41:21,285 --> 00:41:22,125
Speaker 5: makes good decisions?

842
00:41:22,165 --> 00:41:26,005
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, because anyone else could have said that to me,

843
00:41:26,125 --> 00:41:28,845
Speaker 4: my mom. Yeah, you know, anyone could have said that,

844
00:41:29,005 --> 00:41:31,165
Speaker 4: and I would have dismissed it and gone forget it,

845
00:41:31,245 --> 00:41:35,445
Speaker 4: no way, no how. But with Jemma, I've always known

846
00:41:35,485 --> 00:41:38,725
Speaker 4: that she does actually you know, I really do value

847
00:41:38,725 --> 00:41:41,645
Speaker 4: what she says. And so I might have said I'm

848
00:41:41,645 --> 00:41:43,765
Speaker 4: not going to rehab, that's ridiculous, and I reckon ten

849
00:41:43,845 --> 00:41:45,005
Speaker 4: seconds later I was like okay.

850
00:41:45,045 --> 00:41:48,885
Speaker 1: Then it was very like, yeah, okay, I can't. It

851
00:41:48,925 --> 00:41:50,965
Speaker 1: was probably a bit more than ten seconds. Yeah, it was,

852
00:41:51,565 --> 00:41:53,005
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. It went back and forth.

853
00:41:53,125 --> 00:41:55,525
Speaker 4: So I agreed, and then I pushed it back again

854
00:41:55,525 --> 00:41:57,205
Speaker 4: and I said to wait, I don't think this is

855
00:41:57,245 --> 00:41:57,445
Speaker 4: you know.

856
00:41:57,685 --> 00:42:00,405
Speaker 1: So there was definite resistance for a while. Yeah, but

857
00:42:00,605 --> 00:42:01,685
Speaker 1: overall she has a.

858
00:42:01,805 --> 00:42:05,045
Speaker 5: One of the things that surprised me and I found

859
00:42:05,125 --> 00:42:07,325
Speaker 5: so interesting. I mean, everything in this book I found

860
00:42:07,365 --> 00:42:11,725
Speaker 5: so interesting, but the part about where they say at rehab,

861
00:42:11,885 --> 00:42:16,085
Speaker 5: between booking and arriving, you have to keep taking exactly

862
00:42:16,125 --> 00:42:18,445
Speaker 5: the same amount of whatever it is you're addicted to

863
00:42:18,685 --> 00:42:19,525
Speaker 5: until you get there.

864
00:42:19,845 --> 00:42:20,725
Speaker 2: Can you explain that?

865
00:42:20,845 --> 00:42:21,525
Speaker 1: Jem Sure?

866
00:42:21,645 --> 00:42:26,245
Speaker 3: So, because in Jack's circumstance, she hadn't called herself. They

867
00:42:26,285 --> 00:42:29,125
Speaker 3: still won't admit someone until the person says, yes, I

868
00:42:29,165 --> 00:42:32,325
Speaker 3: am willing to come because it's voluntary exactly. And so

869
00:42:32,445 --> 00:42:34,445
Speaker 3: I did all the initial stuff with them, but then

870
00:42:34,445 --> 00:42:36,365
Speaker 3: I did have Jack had to then get on the

871
00:42:36,365 --> 00:42:38,165
Speaker 3: phone with them and confirm that she was willing to

872
00:42:38,205 --> 00:42:40,965
Speaker 3: come and answer all of their questions. And then they

873
00:42:40,965 --> 00:42:43,245
Speaker 3: spoke to me again and they really expressed to me

874
00:42:43,765 --> 00:42:47,005
Speaker 3: that what can commonly occur is with people who know

875
00:42:47,045 --> 00:42:51,205
Speaker 3: they're going into rehab, they can either try and really.

876
00:42:50,925 --> 00:42:52,885
Speaker 1: Massively overdose, have a go out.

877
00:42:53,045 --> 00:42:56,165
Speaker 3: They think, well, this is my last time to go hard,

878
00:42:56,685 --> 00:43:00,205
Speaker 3: and that can be extremely dangerous and is also when

879
00:43:00,205 --> 00:43:01,405
Speaker 3: there's often fatalities.

880
00:43:01,725 --> 00:43:04,565
Speaker 5: I was reading about someone recently who died on their

881
00:43:04,605 --> 00:43:08,045
Speaker 5: way to rehab, and I didn't realize it was a celebrity.

882
00:43:08,045 --> 00:43:11,165
Speaker 5: I didn't realize how why that was. I was like,

883
00:43:11,485 --> 00:43:14,645
Speaker 5: surely by the time you've decided to go to rehab. Yeah, yeah,

884
00:43:14,645 --> 00:43:16,565
Speaker 5: but yeah, your book helped me understand.

885
00:43:16,685 --> 00:43:18,605
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that hadn't occurred to me either me or

886
00:43:18,605 --> 00:43:20,685
Speaker 3: so when they said it, I was like, oh, okay,

887
00:43:20,805 --> 00:43:23,805
Speaker 3: they said, so that's a real concern to be aware of.

888
00:43:24,405 --> 00:43:28,205
Speaker 3: And also they'll try and pretend that they're tapering.

889
00:43:27,725 --> 00:43:29,645
Speaker 1: Off and that they can do it, and then they'll

890
00:43:29,685 --> 00:43:30,045
Speaker 1: go see I.

891
00:43:30,005 --> 00:43:32,605
Speaker 3: Don't need to go now, I've actually now taken like

892
00:43:32,765 --> 00:43:36,565
Speaker 3: less and both options are actually very dangerous. So they

893
00:43:36,605 --> 00:43:40,405
Speaker 3: said it's really important that she takes the same amount,

894
00:43:41,045 --> 00:43:44,125
Speaker 3: and so I had to monitor that for that week,

895
00:43:44,605 --> 00:43:45,805
Speaker 3: which was really strange.

896
00:43:45,845 --> 00:43:48,725
Speaker 5: I'm sure you needed to be very closely supervised and

897
00:43:48,805 --> 00:43:50,165
Speaker 5: not left alone that week.

898
00:43:50,445 --> 00:43:53,005
Speaker 1: Yeah. I stayed with her the whole week. Yeah.

899
00:43:53,045 --> 00:43:55,925
Speaker 5: What about your life, jem Like, that's a big thing,

900
00:43:56,045 --> 00:43:58,205
Speaker 5: because you were not just on your way to the

901
00:43:58,645 --> 00:44:01,405
Speaker 5: you know, yeah, you're going and the way to your kids.

902
00:44:01,885 --> 00:44:05,605
Speaker 5: You have two kids. Were you still married at that point? No,

903
00:44:06,325 --> 00:44:09,045
Speaker 5: so you're a single mum. Yeah, you have two little

904
00:44:09,125 --> 00:44:13,685
Speaker 5: kids and you literally you've got a life of career,

905
00:44:14,085 --> 00:44:16,925
Speaker 5: a family. You had to put everything on hold, not

906
00:44:17,045 --> 00:44:19,605
Speaker 5: just for that week, but to also fly over with

907
00:44:19,725 --> 00:44:21,965
Speaker 5: Jack because she couldn't go on her own. Yeah, and

908
00:44:22,045 --> 00:44:24,325
Speaker 5: admit her yeah, all the way to the gate.

909
00:44:24,445 --> 00:44:27,045
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, what a friend.

910
00:44:27,645 --> 00:44:31,165
Speaker 4: That's why I say everyone needs a friend like Gemma.

911
00:44:31,405 --> 00:44:33,405
Speaker 3: And I always say one day, I'm sure I'll ask

912
00:44:33,445 --> 00:44:34,845
Speaker 3: for something.

913
00:44:34,645 --> 00:44:37,205
Speaker 1: In and I hope you do in this.

914
00:44:37,245 --> 00:44:41,885
Speaker 3: Scenario, no, I Yeah, I was very lucky that I

915
00:44:41,965 --> 00:44:44,485
Speaker 3: have a good relationship, thankfully with my ex husband. We

916
00:44:44,565 --> 00:44:47,005
Speaker 3: co parent really well together and we're still friends, and

917
00:44:47,085 --> 00:44:50,765
Speaker 3: so I was able to say to him, which is

918
00:44:50,805 --> 00:44:52,725
Speaker 3: also very rare, because you know, I spend so much

919
00:44:52,725 --> 00:44:55,125
Speaker 3: time the kids are with me a lot. I was

920
00:44:55,165 --> 00:44:57,925
Speaker 3: able to say to him, Hey, just I need you

921
00:44:57,965 --> 00:45:00,165
Speaker 3: to take the kids for a week, And I'd say why,

922
00:45:00,245 --> 00:45:03,005
Speaker 3: And I just am asking you as a favor, could

923
00:45:03,005 --> 00:45:04,765
Speaker 3: she help me out? And I think because he knows

924
00:45:04,765 --> 00:45:06,645
Speaker 3: they're with me so much, and he's he's a good

925
00:45:06,685 --> 00:45:09,605
Speaker 3: guy in that sense that he said sure, like you know,

926
00:45:09,685 --> 00:45:12,445
Speaker 3: you very rarely asked me to step in, and I'm.

927
00:45:12,245 --> 00:45:14,325
Speaker 1: Happy too, so he did.

928
00:45:15,045 --> 00:45:17,325
Speaker 3: But I also knew that I only had a week

929
00:45:17,365 --> 00:45:19,525
Speaker 3: because I actually then had to get back to the kids.

930
00:45:19,765 --> 00:45:23,245
Speaker 3: And and I'm also one of those this is one

931
00:45:23,245 --> 00:45:25,485
Speaker 3: of the things I'm working on on myself. We're all,

932
00:45:25,765 --> 00:45:28,285
Speaker 3: you know, evolving into as we get older. But is

933
00:45:28,325 --> 00:45:30,885
Speaker 3: that I am so dedicated to my kids, like most

934
00:45:30,925 --> 00:45:34,045
Speaker 3: parents are, but mine's probably unhealthily so to the point

935
00:45:34,045 --> 00:45:35,485
Speaker 3: where I never want to leave them.

936
00:45:35,485 --> 00:45:36,605
Speaker 2: I tell you love helicopter.

937
00:45:36,805 --> 00:45:38,045
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like a helicopter.

938
00:45:38,085 --> 00:45:39,965
Speaker 3: I just love being with them, and so when I'm

939
00:45:39,965 --> 00:45:43,205
Speaker 3: not with them, I get terrible guilt but I you know,

940
00:45:43,605 --> 00:45:46,445
Speaker 3: for that week, there was nothing obviously more important to

941
00:45:46,485 --> 00:45:49,365
Speaker 3: me than getting jack the help that she needed. So

942
00:45:49,485 --> 00:45:52,085
Speaker 3: I was fortunate enough that in my personal life a

943
00:45:52,125 --> 00:45:55,405
Speaker 3: few things aligned, but even I had to make up

944
00:45:55,445 --> 00:45:57,885
Speaker 3: things because I had like work commitments that week, and

945
00:45:57,965 --> 00:46:00,525
Speaker 3: I'd have to say, oh, I've just got to go

946
00:46:00,685 --> 00:46:03,485
Speaker 3: on a trip now for work, so I'm gonna have

947
00:46:03,525 --> 00:46:05,565
Speaker 3: to push that out, or friends and were meant to

948
00:46:05,565 --> 00:46:07,805
Speaker 3: be coming to, you know, stay with me for the weekend.

949
00:46:07,885 --> 00:46:10,005
Speaker 3: The following weekend, I had to say, I've got a

950
00:46:10,005 --> 00:46:14,045
Speaker 3: work trip, which was also because I also everyone knows

951
00:46:14,045 --> 00:46:16,925
Speaker 3: that we're so tightly connected. So I also was mindful

952
00:46:16,965 --> 00:46:19,805
Speaker 3: that if anyone figures out, well, why is she away

953
00:46:20,445 --> 00:46:23,085
Speaker 3: and she's also away, that's a bit weird. Like, so

954
00:46:23,205 --> 00:46:26,485
Speaker 3: I was trying to, you know, make sure that there

955
00:46:26,565 --> 00:46:28,085
Speaker 3: was no moving.

956
00:46:28,805 --> 00:46:31,285
Speaker 5: There were so many movings because you had to call

957
00:46:31,365 --> 00:46:34,645
Speaker 5: your ex husband, but Jackie also had to call yours.

958
00:46:34,365 --> 00:46:37,925
Speaker 2: Yeah, and tell him what was that conversation?

959
00:46:38,165 --> 00:46:40,485
Speaker 1: Like it was kind of short, and.

960
00:46:43,125 --> 00:46:47,125
Speaker 4: I mean the thing with with my ex husband, Lee,

961
00:46:47,525 --> 00:46:51,565
Speaker 4: I think you know, he could probably tell in a

962
00:46:51,605 --> 00:46:54,445
Speaker 4: way that there was problems there, and I think for him,

963
00:46:54,525 --> 00:46:59,445
Speaker 4: he was just very He was empathetic and understanding. He

964
00:46:59,525 --> 00:47:02,525
Speaker 4: had no judgment, and he said, I think that's wonderful.

965
00:47:02,645 --> 00:47:04,925
Speaker 4: I think it's so good that you're addressing it then,

966
00:47:05,005 --> 00:47:07,885
Speaker 4: and you know, I will take care of Kitty and she,

967
00:47:08,325 --> 00:47:12,245
Speaker 4: you know, because we had to figure out how do

968
00:47:12,365 --> 00:47:15,685
Speaker 4: I because she likes to FaceTime. How am I going

969
00:47:15,725 --> 00:47:18,205
Speaker 4: to FaceTime her in rehab? What am I going to say?

970
00:47:18,485 --> 00:47:21,765
Speaker 4: And so we came up with the idea of it

971
00:47:21,885 --> 00:47:25,645
Speaker 4: being a radio conference and you know that I would

972
00:47:25,645 --> 00:47:30,605
Speaker 4: be overseas and Lee was yeah, he I mean, that's

973
00:47:30,605 --> 00:47:33,685
Speaker 4: the thing with Lee, he is just one of the

974
00:47:33,765 --> 00:47:35,845
Speaker 4: greatest guys to co parent with.

975
00:47:36,005 --> 00:47:36,605
Speaker 1: I mean, we were.

976
00:47:36,645 --> 00:47:40,845
Speaker 4: Great together in our marriage, but he has never made

977
00:47:41,085 --> 00:47:44,125
Speaker 4: anything difficult for me and vice versa.

978
00:47:44,885 --> 00:47:45,125
Speaker 5: Both.

979
00:47:45,805 --> 00:47:48,685
Speaker 2: Yeah, incredible, I won't say I mean lucky.

980
00:47:48,805 --> 00:47:51,485
Speaker 5: Yes, because the guys that you were married could have

981
00:47:51,525 --> 00:47:53,885
Speaker 5: been assholes or could have become assholes after you divorced.

982
00:47:53,925 --> 00:47:56,445
Speaker 5: And it takes two people to make a good relationship

983
00:47:56,485 --> 00:47:59,685
Speaker 5: after a divorce. But what about the conversation you had

984
00:47:59,685 --> 00:48:02,285
Speaker 5: to make to your other husband or your other part

985
00:48:02,405 --> 00:48:03,525
Speaker 5: husband called Kyle?

986
00:48:03,845 --> 00:48:08,805
Speaker 4: Yeah, Kyle, it was It was just difficult because I

987
00:48:08,845 --> 00:48:12,325
Speaker 4: didn't know if he was going to ask questions.

988
00:48:12,445 --> 00:48:16,605
Speaker 1: That's what I was worried about, because with Kyle, I

989
00:48:16,645 --> 00:48:18,925
Speaker 1: didn't want to. I didn't want to lie to anyone.

990
00:48:19,005 --> 00:48:21,525
Speaker 4: I didn't want to, And so I was able to

991
00:48:21,525 --> 00:48:25,525
Speaker 4: stick to the truth somewhat in saying that I'm just

992
00:48:25,565 --> 00:48:28,805
Speaker 4: not getting better and I need to take this time

993
00:48:28,845 --> 00:48:31,405
Speaker 4: off otherwise. And it did seem odd because we were

994
00:48:31,445 --> 00:48:35,725
Speaker 4: three weeks away from being on a long holiday anyway, So.

995
00:48:35,685 --> 00:48:37,205
Speaker 1: I knew that for him that.

996
00:48:37,165 --> 00:48:40,365
Speaker 4: Would be a little bit odd, like why can't she

997
00:48:40,525 --> 00:48:41,925
Speaker 4: just hang in there for three weeks?

998
00:48:41,965 --> 00:48:43,445
Speaker 1: She always hangs in there, you know.

999
00:48:43,885 --> 00:48:46,605
Speaker 2: And I said, I have my COVID, my lung infection.

1000
00:48:46,965 --> 00:48:48,565
Speaker 1: I'm not I just need it.

1001
00:48:48,605 --> 00:48:51,605
Speaker 4: And you know, I said to him, I'm struggling, like

1002
00:48:51,725 --> 00:48:54,005
Speaker 4: I did tell him that, and he was like, yeah, okay,

1003
00:48:54,085 --> 00:48:55,765
Speaker 4: it's going to be ship, but I get it, and

1004
00:48:55,805 --> 00:48:57,605
Speaker 4: I'm you know, you do what you got to do

1005
00:48:57,885 --> 00:48:59,125
Speaker 4: and don't ask that many questions.

1006
00:48:59,165 --> 00:49:01,525
Speaker 1: No, they don't do They They just take everything fast.

1007
00:49:01,605 --> 00:49:03,485
Speaker 5: In another part of your book, when you start dating,

1008
00:49:05,005 --> 00:49:07,525
Speaker 5: not a lot of questions. Yeah, No, I do take

1009
00:49:07,605 --> 00:49:10,725
Speaker 5: things at face value, really, and we should take them

1010
00:49:10,725 --> 00:49:13,085
Speaker 5: at phase value. A lot of time maybe we asked

1011
00:49:13,125 --> 00:49:16,445
Speaker 5: him many questions before we get to the logistics. And

1012
00:49:17,005 --> 00:49:19,405
Speaker 5: I'm not going to talk about rehab itself, because you

1013
00:49:19,445 --> 00:49:22,445
Speaker 5: go into that so beautifully and interestingly in the book.

1014
00:49:23,205 --> 00:49:28,205
Speaker 5: I want you to be to explain what addiction looked like,

1015
00:49:28,405 --> 00:49:30,685
Speaker 5: because from the way we've been talking, you know, I

1016
00:49:30,685 --> 00:49:32,445
Speaker 5: was taking too many pills and then I was a

1017
00:49:32,485 --> 00:49:35,005
Speaker 5: bit tired and blah blah, and I had to hide it,

1018
00:49:35,445 --> 00:49:40,365
Speaker 5: but talk about the physical effects and what it did

1019
00:49:40,405 --> 00:49:41,285
Speaker 5: to your life.

1020
00:49:41,965 --> 00:49:45,405
Speaker 4: So in the there's very different stages of it. So

1021
00:49:45,685 --> 00:49:49,165
Speaker 4: in the beginning, when I had just separated and was

1022
00:49:49,325 --> 00:49:52,325
Speaker 4: new to it and using it as a coping mechanism,

1023
00:49:52,805 --> 00:49:58,245
Speaker 4: it was quite It was affecting me quite visibly, I think,

1024
00:49:59,005 --> 00:50:03,405
Speaker 4: and because my behavior was strange in that early stage.

1025
00:50:03,845 --> 00:50:07,485
Speaker 4: Now I was just going through a separation from not

1026
00:50:07,605 --> 00:50:10,405
Speaker 4: only my husband but also fifty percent of the time

1027
00:50:10,445 --> 00:50:14,445
Speaker 4: with my child, and so friends would come over, but

1028
00:50:14,525 --> 00:50:16,485
Speaker 4: they would also see that I was drinking like a

1029
00:50:16,525 --> 00:50:17,485
Speaker 4: goblet of wine.

1030
00:50:17,725 --> 00:50:19,445
Speaker 1: So they just put it down to that.

1031
00:50:19,645 --> 00:50:22,885
Speaker 4: Going through a divorce turning to a bit more alcohol

1032
00:50:22,925 --> 00:50:25,685
Speaker 4: than she should. But we've seen that play out many times,

1033
00:50:25,765 --> 00:50:29,685
Speaker 4: so it doesn't warrant an intervention by any means. But

1034
00:50:29,885 --> 00:50:35,365
Speaker 4: in those stages, I mean, I would the particularly the

1035
00:50:35,405 --> 00:50:39,325
Speaker 4: still knocks would just have a great effect, so you

1036
00:50:39,365 --> 00:50:42,245
Speaker 4: would take one. I would kind of wait until later

1037
00:50:42,245 --> 00:50:44,365
Speaker 4: in the day for that, because you know who wakes

1038
00:50:44,405 --> 00:50:45,605
Speaker 4: up and takes a still knox.

1039
00:50:46,005 --> 00:50:47,205
Speaker 1: That didn't happen un till later.

1040
00:50:49,125 --> 00:50:51,885
Speaker 4: And then once I had that still knox with the

1041
00:50:52,005 --> 00:50:55,085
Speaker 4: alcohol I'd already been drinking during the day, then you

1042
00:50:55,205 --> 00:50:57,965
Speaker 4: have this sort of blackout like and I don't mean

1043
00:50:58,005 --> 00:51:00,485
Speaker 4: blackout is and you're on the bed, collapsed and you

1044
00:51:00,605 --> 00:51:05,005
Speaker 4: sleep for you know, hours on end. You're functioning normally,

1045
00:51:05,845 --> 00:51:09,285
Speaker 4: but you can't remember anything you did the night before.

1046
00:51:10,365 --> 00:51:15,685
Speaker 4: And I remember waking up one morning and I got

1047
00:51:15,685 --> 00:51:20,685
Speaker 4: this message from this guy who I haven't even said this.

1048
00:51:20,685 --> 00:51:21,165
Speaker 1: In the book.

1049
00:51:21,445 --> 00:51:27,605
Speaker 4: I got a message from a guy and he said, oh, like, yeah,

1050
00:51:27,645 --> 00:51:31,525
Speaker 4: that sounds good, he said, but you know, you should

1051
00:51:31,565 --> 00:51:33,645
Speaker 4: be careful who you say something like that too.

1052
00:51:34,125 --> 00:51:36,005
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh my god, what did I

1053
00:51:36,045 --> 00:51:38,965
Speaker 1: say to this guy? Would I say? And I scrolled

1054
00:51:39,165 --> 00:51:40,685
Speaker 1: back up to have a look.

1055
00:51:41,005 --> 00:51:43,525
Speaker 4: And I think I'd said to him something like hey,

1056
00:51:43,565 --> 00:51:45,725
Speaker 4: because we'd been on a date or something. And I

1057
00:51:45,805 --> 00:51:47,285
Speaker 4: said to him, hey, do you want to be friends

1058
00:51:47,325 --> 00:51:50,045
Speaker 4: with benefits? I mean, fuck, I'm mortified at the thought

1059
00:51:50,045 --> 00:51:51,125
Speaker 4: of even asking a.

1060
00:51:51,085 --> 00:51:55,085
Speaker 1: Guy that this guy was. This guy was I barely

1061
00:51:55,165 --> 00:51:58,525
Speaker 1: knew him. He was on TV and everyone knew this guy.

1062
00:51:58,565 --> 00:52:01,245
Speaker 4: And I thought, I've just asked this guy to be

1063
00:52:01,285 --> 00:52:04,845
Speaker 4: friends with benefits and I would never have done that sober.

1064
00:52:05,165 --> 00:52:08,125
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so I would see these things. The next day.

1065
00:52:08,365 --> 00:52:12,685
Speaker 4: I'd almost wake up in fear of what did I do?

1066
00:52:12,765 --> 00:52:14,725
Speaker 4: And I would scroll through my phone for evidence.

1067
00:52:14,765 --> 00:52:17,365
Speaker 1: I'd go, who did I text? What did I say?

1068
00:52:18,005 --> 00:52:22,965
Speaker 4: Because you become like this, it's almost like you want

1069
00:52:22,965 --> 00:52:24,805
Speaker 4: to chat, and you want to You've got all this

1070
00:52:25,005 --> 00:52:28,205
Speaker 4: kind of the idea seems so good in your head

1071
00:52:28,245 --> 00:52:30,685
Speaker 4: at the time, but then when you're sober and you

1072
00:52:30,725 --> 00:52:33,525
Speaker 4: wake up the next day, you go, what on earth

1073
00:52:33,645 --> 00:52:37,565
Speaker 4: was I thinking? So it was very destructive outer character

1074
00:52:37,725 --> 00:52:42,445
Speaker 4: behavior and scary to think that you are doing things

1075
00:52:42,445 --> 00:52:44,325
Speaker 4: that you don't remember. And then it got to a

1076
00:52:44,365 --> 00:52:47,765
Speaker 4: point where I'd have to write post it notes to

1077
00:52:48,285 --> 00:52:52,765
Speaker 4: remind myself of what I was doing and conversations I'd had.

1078
00:52:53,845 --> 00:52:56,205
Speaker 4: And then just in terms of the feeling, there wasn't

1079
00:52:56,245 --> 00:52:58,245
Speaker 4: actually even that great a feeling with it. It was

1080
00:52:58,365 --> 00:53:00,565
Speaker 4: more just the way I would like, and it was

1081
00:53:00,645 --> 00:53:02,925
Speaker 4: just like it was numbing pain.

1082
00:53:03,165 --> 00:53:06,125
Speaker 2: What about the ulcer there also was that.

1083
00:53:06,325 --> 00:53:09,045
Speaker 4: I mean like I had this ulso where it was

1084
00:53:09,045 --> 00:53:12,245
Speaker 4: because of neurofy and plus and so I had no

1085
00:53:12,405 --> 00:53:16,205
Speaker 4: idea that iyberprofen would cause that kind of damage.

1086
00:53:16,405 --> 00:53:17,325
Speaker 1: And it was like.

1087
00:53:17,285 --> 00:53:20,125
Speaker 2: Such vast quantities on an empty stomach without.

1088
00:53:19,885 --> 00:53:23,525
Speaker 4: Absolutely they even say, I think when you normally take it,

1089
00:53:24,165 --> 00:53:26,485
Speaker 4: even on an empty stomach can be dangerous and you

1090
00:53:26,525 --> 00:53:30,045
Speaker 4: can get ulcers. So taking too much of iberprof and

1091
00:53:30,325 --> 00:53:32,445
Speaker 4: I wasn't even looking at the eyberprofen. I was just

1092
00:53:32,485 --> 00:53:35,085
Speaker 4: looking at the codeine. I wasn't even thinking about that.

1093
00:53:35,205 --> 00:53:38,445
Speaker 4: And little did I know that that had a severe

1094
00:53:38,485 --> 00:53:42,805
Speaker 4: side effect. So the consequences of all.

1095
00:53:42,605 --> 00:53:47,285
Speaker 1: Of that ray didn't you? Yeah, yeah I did? I did,

1096
00:53:47,365 --> 00:53:48,725
Speaker 1: and it was really really big.

1097
00:53:48,885 --> 00:53:51,965
Speaker 5: You talk about how you became, You retreated from the world.

1098
00:53:52,205 --> 00:53:53,965
Speaker 5: You didn't want to go out, you didn't want to

1099
00:53:54,005 --> 00:53:57,005
Speaker 5: see your friends. The only time you'd see your friends

1100
00:53:57,085 --> 00:54:00,125
Speaker 5: is if they came to you. It was also COVID,

1101
00:54:00,245 --> 00:54:05,525
Speaker 5: so you just became more and more, you know, cloistered away.

1102
00:54:05,565 --> 00:54:08,605
Speaker 5: But then even when restrictions lifted, you didn't want to

1103
00:54:08,685 --> 00:54:10,805
Speaker 5: leave your self imposed prison.

1104
00:54:11,045 --> 00:54:13,965
Speaker 1: No, I was almost like, oh damn, the restrictions are lifted.

1105
00:54:14,005 --> 00:54:18,685
Speaker 4: That means like everyone, yeah, everyone's getting out and socializing again,

1106
00:54:18,725 --> 00:54:21,565
Speaker 4: and I didn't want to, like because COVID just all

1107
00:54:21,605 --> 00:54:23,885
Speaker 4: the ingredients were there. It was the perfect recipe for

1108
00:54:23,965 --> 00:54:27,965
Speaker 4: a people, for a lot of people. Yeah you could,

1109
00:54:28,365 --> 00:54:32,645
Speaker 4: Yeah you really could. And working from home just you know,

1110
00:54:32,765 --> 00:54:35,485
Speaker 4: gave us a lot of us an excuse to escape

1111
00:54:35,565 --> 00:54:39,685
Speaker 4: and not have any real you know, you didn't have

1112
00:54:40,125 --> 00:54:43,005
Speaker 4: half of your responsibilities were gone sometimes, you know, you

1113
00:54:43,005 --> 00:54:45,605
Speaker 4: didn't have to drive, and so therefore we could drink more.

1114
00:54:46,525 --> 00:54:48,805
Speaker 4: And so yeah, it was it was just like this

1115
00:54:48,965 --> 00:54:52,205
Speaker 4: kind of perfect storm, the moment in time that just

1116
00:54:52,325 --> 00:54:58,565
Speaker 4: all added to the convenience of making that situation worse

1117
00:54:58,685 --> 00:55:03,045
Speaker 4: and enabling it, you know. And so it was when

1118
00:55:03,245 --> 00:55:06,645
Speaker 4: when the restrictions were lifted and people started socializing again,

1119
00:55:06,725 --> 00:55:09,645
Speaker 4: that was hard because I was still isolating myself away

1120
00:55:10,445 --> 00:55:12,205
Speaker 4: and I was very well aware that I was just

1121
00:55:12,605 --> 00:55:17,645
Speaker 4: not living life at all, but thinking it was better

1122
00:55:17,685 --> 00:55:18,925
Speaker 4: than what everyone else was doing.

1123
00:55:19,485 --> 00:55:21,805
Speaker 2: That was something that was so interesting in your book.

1124
00:55:21,805 --> 00:55:24,885
Speaker 5: You described I'd look at everybody else and I'd feel

1125
00:55:24,925 --> 00:55:28,645
Speaker 5: pity for them. It's like, I'm just having a much

1126
00:55:28,685 --> 00:55:32,845
Speaker 5: better time alone with my pills. Yeah, and then how

1127
00:55:33,245 --> 00:55:37,685
Speaker 5: after rehabit flipped and when you're like you just appreciated

1128
00:55:37,725 --> 00:55:41,245
Speaker 5: everything so much, jem I want to ask about the

1129
00:55:41,285 --> 00:55:48,205
Speaker 5: logistics of getting someone famous. And that wasn't the end

1130
00:55:48,205 --> 00:55:50,845
Speaker 5: of my conversation with Jackie and Jemma. There is still

1131
00:55:50,925 --> 00:55:52,845
Speaker 5: a lot of ground to cover, like how did Jemma

1132
00:55:52,965 --> 00:55:55,885
Speaker 5: manage to get jack out of the country without being

1133
00:55:55,925 --> 00:55:59,885
Speaker 5: hounded by the paps? And what was rehab like and

1134
00:55:59,965 --> 00:56:04,245
Speaker 5: more importantly, most importantly, how's she going now. We also

1135
00:56:04,285 --> 00:56:07,165
Speaker 5: spoke about why the world was so obsessed with her

1136
00:56:07,205 --> 00:56:10,925
Speaker 5: weight and what the truth story was behind that. Like

1137
00:56:10,965 --> 00:56:13,685
Speaker 5: I said, so much more meet us in part two.

1138
00:56:14,165 --> 00:56:16,285
Speaker 5: We'll be waiting for you. There's a link in the

1139
00:56:16,325 --> 00:56:16,925
Speaker 5: show notes.