WEBVTT - Jonathan Van Ness: Addiction, HIV and the Wake-Up Call That Saved My Life

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to I'm on the May podcast. When I

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<v Speaker 1>contracted each IV, I was really an terrible relationship with

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<v Speaker 1>meth and I was just relapsing on meth and using meth.

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<v Speaker 1>And for a lot of people that have meth addiction

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<v Speaker 1>are engaged in that kind of like chem sex queer

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<v Speaker 1>like culture. It is so pervasive and it is just

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<v Speaker 1>everywhere you look. And so I think that contracting HIV

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<v Speaker 1>saved me because that was the wake up call that

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<v Speaker 1>got me to get away from meth. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>that if I hadn't gotten HIV, I would have just

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<v Speaker 1>kept relapsing and at one point one of those would

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<v Speaker 1>have killed me, Like I would have overdosed at some point.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I was like I was doing it all

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<v Speaker 1>in all the ways. Hi.

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<v Speaker 2>Everyone, it's Naima Brown, executive producer of No Filter.

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<v Speaker 3>Here.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm stepping in and as your special guest host on

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<v Speaker 2>this episode while Kate enjoys her summer break, and I

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't be more thrilled about today's guest. Jonathan van Ness

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<v Speaker 2>is one of the most recognizable and beloved people on

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<v Speaker 2>reality television. He's the heart of Queer Eye, the creator

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<v Speaker 2>of Getting Curious, a New York Times best selling author,

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<v Speaker 2>a comedian, a hair care founder, an activist, and someone

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<v Speaker 2>who has built a global audience just by being completely

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<v Speaker 2>and unapologetically themselves. But the Jonathan you're about to hear

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<v Speaker 2>today isn't just the larger than life performer. It's the

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<v Speaker 2>real person underneath the fame, the one who has survived

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<v Speaker 2>some incredibly dark chapters and who speaks with extraordinary honesty

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<v Speaker 2>about them. We talk about the addictions Jonathan is battled,

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<v Speaker 2>including drug use and sex addiction, and the ways those

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<v Speaker 2>addictions intertwined with shame, secrecy, trauma, and the deep need

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<v Speaker 2>to feel worthy of love. They tell me about relapse, recovery,

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<v Speaker 2>the terrifying moments when they didn't know who they were anymore,

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<v Speaker 2>and the people, the practices, and some pets that pulled

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<v Speaker 2>them back into the world. We talk about joy to

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<v Speaker 2>where they find it now, how they protect it, and

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<v Speaker 2>how they continue to show up in a world that

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<v Speaker 2>has asked them to be an educator, a role model,

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<v Speaker 2>an activist, a comfort and a source of light, all

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<v Speaker 2>while they've been trying to navigate their own inner landscape.

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<v Speaker 2>Here is Jonathan van Ness. Jonathan van Ness, or is

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<v Speaker 2>I like to think Jonathan Van Yes, welcome to No Filter.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, it's my pleasure.

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<v Speaker 2>I actually wanted to start this conversation somewhere a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit differently, and we might not even use this, but

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<v Speaker 2>I just did want to have this kind of moment

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<v Speaker 2>of connection with you because I've been so steeped. I've

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<v Speaker 2>been following you for a very long time, but obviously

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<v Speaker 2>for the past few weeks. I just I've been everywhere

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<v Speaker 2>I go, I've got you in my ears, reading your words,

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<v Speaker 2>just very steeped in you. And one of the things

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<v Speaker 2>I've heard you talk about is how and I know

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<v Speaker 2>this was back with the publication of your first book,

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<v Speaker 2>but how sometimes interviews could be retraumatizing or triggering, and

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<v Speaker 2>I just wanted to ask if there's anything you want

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<v Speaker 2>me to know about how your day's been so far,

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<v Speaker 2>about where you are in life, any boundaries you want

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<v Speaker 2>me to be clued into so that this can be

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<v Speaker 2>a great experience for you.

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<v Speaker 1>It's so funny that you say that, because yesterday I

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<v Speaker 1>was doing this interview and I all of a sudden

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<v Speaker 1>started getting like grilled on like World HIV Day and

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<v Speaker 1>what I think we need to do internationally for like

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<v Speaker 1>HIV policy, which I'm happy to talk to, but I

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<v Speaker 1>was just marveling at myself because I was like, Wow,

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<v Speaker 1>I've gotten so good at just like here to chat comedy,

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<v Speaker 1>but I'm going to talk about HIV because it's all

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<v Speaker 1>one big gorgeous ball of human experience or we're slaying it.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, no, you can. You can go wherever I

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<v Speaker 1>think will be good. I feel good today. Thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so interesting, johnath Than, because feel like this has

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<v Speaker 2>kind of just grounded us right where I really wanted

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<v Speaker 2>us to kind of again, which is in the joy

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<v Speaker 2>and the laughter and just the the openness that you

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<v Speaker 2>bring to everything that you have done in the public eye.

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<v Speaker 2>You've shared so much of yourself with us, with the world,

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<v Speaker 2>and not just in your books, but in ten Seasons

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<v Speaker 2>of Queer Eye, in your own podcast Getting Better, and

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<v Speaker 2>in your stand up comedy performances which are incredible, and

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<v Speaker 2>now you're touring with a show called Hot and Healed,

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<v Speaker 2>which I love because I feel like that's actually such

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<v Speaker 2>a great container for this conversation and for talking about

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<v Speaker 2>the incredible life that you have lived and are still living.

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<v Speaker 2>Because as anyone who's been following you would know you

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<v Speaker 2>haven't always felt hot and healed? Are you feeling hot

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<v Speaker 2>and healed today?

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<v Speaker 1>I am, although you know what makes me laugh. I

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<v Speaker 1>came up with this title because I was like, I

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<v Speaker 1>need a fun alliteration, and it was like twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 1>four and I didn't even know I was going to

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<v Speaker 1>start taking a GLP one yet. And then I did

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<v Speaker 1>start taking one, I accidentally lost like seventy pounds. I've

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<v Speaker 1>never been so muscily in my life because I got

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<v Speaker 1>kind of addicted to like Lagree pilates, and so now

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<v Speaker 1>I could just like kind of I think I could

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<v Speaker 1>survive on Mageddon. Frankly, like I am just so like

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<v Speaker 1>I've never been so strong on this like pilates table,

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<v Speaker 1>and so now I'm kind of realizing brand wise, people

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<v Speaker 1>are like, oh, he thinks he's like hot and healed

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<v Speaker 1>because there was like a globe, and I'm like, no,

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<v Speaker 1>I was always super hot and healed. I well, I've

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<v Speaker 1>always been healing. I wouldn't say I'm healed. It's part

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<v Speaker 1>of what the set's about is that it's really a journey,

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<v Speaker 1>not a destination, this whole healing healed thing. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I just want to make clear I always thought I

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<v Speaker 1>was really cute, and I am really cute now, and

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<v Speaker 1>I was also cute when I named this who are

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<v Speaker 1>Hot and Healed? Last year? I just who knew that

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<v Speaker 1>the weight was going to come off that fast? And

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<v Speaker 1>I already made the sweatshirts and they say hot and healed,

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<v Speaker 1>so I couldn't change it. And you know, sometimes I

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<v Speaker 1>guess I guess I could have pivoted halfway through. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know, but yeah, I feel hot and healed, but

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<v Speaker 1>I guess I already did.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes.

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<v Speaker 2>And I have a sense, Jonathan, that with the work

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<v Speaker 2>that you have done internally, that wherever you might be

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<v Speaker 2>a year from now, wherever you might be ten years

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<v Speaker 2>from now, I'm actually really excited about, Like what what's

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<v Speaker 2>like an eighty year old Jonathan van Ness going to

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<v Speaker 2>be all about? And I think you're going to be

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<v Speaker 2>hot and healed then in whatever form do you do

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<v Speaker 2>you ever think about old age and what.

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<v Speaker 3>What you want that to look like.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to get there. Yeah, I want to get there.

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<v Speaker 1>I know that much. I would like to be like

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<v Speaker 1>a blend of Dorothy Blanche and Rose Ovs, except for

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<v Speaker 1>I do want a needle point. I don't think the

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<v Speaker 1>three of them had any crafts or their characters like

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<v Speaker 1>had that new maybe did one of them cross stitch.

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<v Speaker 1>I just want to make sure I'm needle pointing having

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<v Speaker 1>more pets. They weren't a pet household, so that wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>work for me. But they no, so that wouldn't have

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<v Speaker 1>That won't work. But hopefully there's gonna be needle pointing

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<v Speaker 1>and cheesecake and late night chats. But oh, oh, I can't. Oh.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to be a widow though. I need

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<v Speaker 1>my husband to be there. So like my husband me

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<v Speaker 1>and then like some other fun friends eating cheesecake. Hopefully.

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<v Speaker 2>I love this idea. It's an alternate version of The

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<v Speaker 2>Golden Girls. Where there's pets, where there's your lovely mark,

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<v Speaker 2>where there's you know, maybe more plants, and I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe not Florida.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah where they were I think.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're not Florida. I don't think we'll be able

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<v Speaker 1>to do Florida.

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<v Speaker 3>No, We'll pick somewhere else.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to swing the pendulum all the way to

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<v Speaker 2>the other side, you know, from kind of imagining what

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<v Speaker 2>really old Jonathan might look like, all the way back

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<v Speaker 2>to the beginning of your story. You grew up in

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<v Speaker 2>a really conservative Midwestern town called Quincy, Illinois. You describe

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<v Speaker 2>yourself as having been a really sem little kid who

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<v Speaker 2>loved scarves, loved nail polish. And that's not something that

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<v Speaker 2>the adults in your life nurtured. It's something that you

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<v Speaker 2>coped a lot of shame and internalized a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>shame around and about. And you know, you've spoken so

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<v Speaker 2>extensively about that experience and about that time in your life.

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<v Speaker 2>And I suppose what I really want to know is

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<v Speaker 2>where did that commitment to self expression that you've always

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<v Speaker 2>had in spite of or despite the fact that that

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes put you in the crosshairs of that externalized shame,

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<v Speaker 2>or it cost you sometimes in the social or in

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<v Speaker 2>the family sphere. Yet you seem to have never been

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<v Speaker 2>willing to be anything other than the fullest expression of yourself.

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<v Speaker 2>Where do you think that that came from.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a really good question. I think maybe watching figure

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<v Speaker 1>skating and gymnastics too young, like before, I just you know,

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<v Speaker 1>just seeing these women express themselves with such like ferocity,

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<v Speaker 1>I just was like, ah, but I just that's like

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<v Speaker 1>a joke. My brain always goes there because I was

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<v Speaker 1>just so obsessed with it as a child and still am.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think I do think that there was just

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<v Speaker 1>like an innate sense. I think that even if like

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<v Speaker 1>my family had been from New York City, I think

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<v Speaker 1>I still would have been exactly how I am. I

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<v Speaker 1>just there was a need to dance and be free

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<v Speaker 1>and ask a lot of questions and be a chatterbox.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I just think I've always been this person,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think I just am so excited that I

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<v Speaker 1>get to nurture that in ermy that didn't have the

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<v Speaker 1>nurturing then but has it now. And I think so

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<v Speaker 1>much of my mission is like trying to help other

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<v Speaker 1>And I talk about this a lot and over the top,

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<v Speaker 1>like I want to help other little jbns, like other

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<v Speaker 1>little you know, kids and young people and people my age,

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<v Speaker 1>just anyone who's felt like othered and like they're like

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<v Speaker 1>who they were wasn't there wasn't space for who they were,

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<v Speaker 1>because I really do believe that there is space for

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<v Speaker 1>everyone to be seen and celebrated for who they are.

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<v Speaker 2>Something that you've done that really has stuck with me

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<v Speaker 2>because I think it's connected in many ways. You grew

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<v Speaker 2>up in a I believe both of your parents were

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<v Speaker 2>journalists or your mother was a journalist.

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<v Speaker 1>Both My parents worked in like TV and newspapers.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, so you.

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<v Speaker 2>Grew up around the kind of craft of storytelling. And

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<v Speaker 2>one of the things that you did in your second

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<v Speaker 2>memoir was I consider a piece of beautiful journalism, which

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<v Speaker 2>was to go back to Quincy, a place where you'd

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<v Speaker 2>felt quite adrift and alone in your youth and in

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<v Speaker 2>your kind of coming of age, and you uncovered in

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<v Speaker 2>many ways the queer history of Quincy that, for whatever reason,

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<v Speaker 2>when you were there and would have benefited from it,

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<v Speaker 2>it was still quite hidden and covered, so you weren't

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<v Speaker 2>able to kind of, you know, grab hold of it,

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<v Speaker 2>but you almost excavated it, you know, like with one

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<v Speaker 2>of those little archaeology so that it could be recovered

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<v Speaker 2>and be available to other queer kids and young people

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<v Speaker 2>or just I suppose any people in Quincy who want

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<v Speaker 2>to avail themselves of that history and that space. That

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<v Speaker 2>must have been an incredible experience for you.

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<v Speaker 1>It was so fun. There was always this bar that

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<v Speaker 1>I walked by and saw because it was like kind

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<v Speaker 1>of like in our downtown, which is really little, and

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<v Speaker 1>it had like a rainbow. So I always knew that

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<v Speaker 1>was like the gay bar, but I didn't really know

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<v Speaker 1>who owned it or like what the story on that was.

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<v Speaker 1>And so getting to research the owner and then I

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<v Speaker 1>found other queer people in Quincy and their stories, and

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<v Speaker 1>it ultimately in the eighties had been a play the

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<v Speaker 1>late eighties and early nineties became like an HIV testing

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<v Speaker 1>They turned one of the dressing rooms that the queens

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<v Speaker 1>would get ready and to perform into like an HIV

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<v Speaker 1>testing center because they needed space. And it just was

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<v Speaker 1>such an incredible story. And actually the former mayor of

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<v Speaker 1>the city that I interviewed, whose wife was the nurse

0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:09.359
<v Speaker 1>that was, you know, really at the time, so incredibly

0:12:09.359 --> 0:12:11.279
<v Speaker 1>brave and courageous for doing the work that she did

0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.599
<v Speaker 1>in Quincy because there was so much anti HIV stigma

0:12:13.599 --> 0:12:16.199
<v Speaker 1>in fear. He was a former mayor Quincy, he just

0:12:16.199 --> 0:12:18.359
<v Speaker 1>passed away. My mom literally just told me that when

0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.880
<v Speaker 1>she was here visiting. But what an incredible man. And

0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:27.640
<v Speaker 1>I think that it was so cathartic. It also inspired

0:12:27.719 --> 0:12:30.599
<v Speaker 1>me to write my last book, which was called Let

0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:33.399
<v Speaker 1>Them Stare, which is about this like young gender non

0:12:33.439 --> 0:12:35.599
<v Speaker 1>conforming kid who just can't wait to get out of

0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:38.520
<v Speaker 1>their hometown, and then all their plans change and they

0:12:38.599 --> 0:12:40.720
<v Speaker 1>end up getting stuck in their hometown and they impulse

0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:44.559
<v Speaker 1>by this fierce vintage bag with the last of their money,

0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:47.840
<v Speaker 1>which is such a me thing to do, and it's priceless, honey.

0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:51.080
<v Speaker 1>It's basically like a burken of my fantasy world, but

0:12:51.119 --> 0:12:53.280
<v Speaker 1>it's like even more expensive. It's like on antiqu roachow

0:12:53.319 --> 0:12:56.480
<v Speaker 1>could get Sully like a million dollars, but it's haunted

0:12:56.479 --> 0:12:58.600
<v Speaker 1>by a drag queen from the fifties, and then like

0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:05.200
<v Speaker 1>intergenerational ghosty best friendship ensues and so literally going back

0:13:05.239 --> 0:13:08.199
<v Speaker 1>and doing that those interviews in that research inspired me

0:13:08.359 --> 0:13:11.359
<v Speaker 1>to ultimately write my first fiction novel, which was so fun.

0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.040
<v Speaker 2>One of the things I've heard you say a lot

0:13:14.479 --> 0:13:17.639
<v Speaker 2>across all of the different platforms in which you kind

0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.679
<v Speaker 2>of share yourself with us, is especially when you're reminiscing

0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:25.280
<v Speaker 2>on times that were more challenging whilst you were also

0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:27.800
<v Speaker 2>in the public eye, Like once you'd kind of become

0:13:27.839 --> 0:13:31.280
<v Speaker 2>a public figure, as you talk about sometimes really heavy,

0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:35.120
<v Speaker 2>big intense things happening in your actual life, and then

0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.439
<v Speaker 2>you refer to it as flipping a switch into that

0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:39.199
<v Speaker 2>kind of happy smiley.

0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:40.040
<v Speaker 3>I'm here to make you laugh.

0:13:41.199 --> 0:13:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Performative, but I don't mean that in a disingenuous way.

0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:49.199
<v Speaker 2>But entertaining us. Was that something that started when you

0:13:49.199 --> 0:13:51.999
<v Speaker 2>were quite young, perhaps even as a way to cope

0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:54.640
<v Speaker 2>with some of that external shame that was coming your way.

0:13:55.119 --> 0:13:57.800
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, and I think not only even just like external

0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.559
<v Speaker 1>shame that was coming my way, but just enter like

0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:05.999
<v Speaker 1>familial conflict and just really any conflict. Like I would

0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:07.880
<v Speaker 1>just I wanted to make people laugh, and so if

0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:09.960
<v Speaker 1>I saw people having a hard time, I was just like,

0:14:09.959 --> 0:14:12.320
<v Speaker 1>oh my, I got this. I'll make everybody laugh.

0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:17.040
<v Speaker 2>As we've established with the hot and healed idea, you've

0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:20.040
<v Speaker 2>always been hot, You'll always be hot with the healed

0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:24.840
<v Speaker 2>side of things. I wonder if that flipping the switch

0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:28.560
<v Speaker 2>to be happy, smiley Jonathan for the rest of us

0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:31.920
<v Speaker 2>is something you do less or maybe with more awareness

0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:34.360
<v Speaker 2>now or do you feel do you feel less like

0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:39.600
<v Speaker 2>that's something you owe your audience if it's not really

0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:40.520
<v Speaker 2>where you are.

0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.040
<v Speaker 1>It's there's a I will tell you that in this

0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.440
<v Speaker 1>in this bit, I'm I'm doing this bit on healing

0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.879
<v Speaker 1>from people pleasing and so that is like one thing

0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:52.520
<v Speaker 1>that I think is really funny. I think it's something

0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:55.519
<v Speaker 1>that so many people struggle with, and it's it's like

0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:58.680
<v Speaker 1>an ongoing process because the truth is is that a

0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:02.200
<v Speaker 1>part of me is happy, smiley Jonathan all the time.

0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.240
<v Speaker 1>Like that part is truthfully like always in there, even

0:15:05.239 --> 0:15:08.320
<v Speaker 1>when things are really bad and awful. And I've had

0:15:08.359 --> 0:15:12.160
<v Speaker 1>some of like this the worst saddest things happen, and

0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:16.119
<v Speaker 1>I can usually access this part that's like really really joyful,

0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:19.480
<v Speaker 1>not the whole time, but I have like a connection

0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:22.880
<v Speaker 1>to that me at all times. So it's like when

0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.639
<v Speaker 1>I need to be that person, I'm not even it's

0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:30.040
<v Speaker 1>it's not like a disingenuous thing. And my husband and

0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:33.040
<v Speaker 1>I've explored how like in public, if one of those

0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:35.520
<v Speaker 1>really bad things have happened and then someone's like really

0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:37.840
<v Speaker 1>excited to meet me, like just I'm in like in

0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:39.600
<v Speaker 1>an airport or getting in like a car somewhere and

0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:42.280
<v Speaker 1>someone's like, oh my god. There's like I can count

0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:44.720
<v Speaker 1>on one hand I think how many times I've said like,

0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:47.840
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, I'm so sorry, like XYZ just happened.

0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.200
<v Speaker 1>I just amount up to it. I will feel bad

0:15:51.239 --> 0:15:54.240
<v Speaker 1>about it for like three days like afterwards. It's like

0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.680
<v Speaker 1>it truthfully is easier for me to like just take

0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.359
<v Speaker 1>the selfie, and I actually and I really do like

0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:03.120
<v Speaker 1>to make people feel good. So it's like I think

0:16:03.479 --> 0:16:07.440
<v Speaker 1>now I do think on my social media, especially like

0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:11.280
<v Speaker 1>having been in Texas for five years, I can see

0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:16.080
<v Speaker 1>externally how I show up different now than than what

0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:18.200
<v Speaker 1>I did. I think the longer that I've you know,

0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.120
<v Speaker 1>been in this platform and been in this position, I

0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:23.800
<v Speaker 1>just be like I'm more aware of like the forces

0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.560
<v Speaker 1>at play, and so those have been it's been harder

0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:29.400
<v Speaker 1>for me to like access that joy sometimes on social

0:16:29.479 --> 0:16:31.960
<v Speaker 1>because I'm afraid of like being judged. And I think

0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:35.400
<v Speaker 1>only in the last like maybe a year of just

0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:40.120
<v Speaker 1>having been like through the fire, so many times, I'm like, no,

0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:42.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to access joy and I'm going to do

0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:44.960
<v Speaker 1>it in public, because that's what we're here to do.

0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:48.760
<v Speaker 1>And my whole mission when I first got into entertainment,

0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:52.080
<v Speaker 1>like it's always been spread self acceptance by modeling joy

0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.960
<v Speaker 1>and curiosity. That is what I'm here to do. And

0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:56.520
<v Speaker 1>so that's what I want to keep doing because I

0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:58.600
<v Speaker 1>really do think that's my mission and teach you how

0:16:58.600 --> 0:16:59.720
<v Speaker 1>to like do your hair.

0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:02.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, is that a dig at my hair? Because I've

0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.920
<v Speaker 2>been so nervous about my hair this whole conversation.

0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.600
<v Speaker 1>Naima, that is like the most craziest thing you said

0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.959
<v Speaker 1>this whole interview. Your hair looks amazing. I mean like

0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:15.360
<v Speaker 1>to our listener, you know, like not you your hair looks amazing.

0:17:15.399 --> 0:17:17.080
<v Speaker 1>That was like not a dig on your hair at all.

0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:20.360
<v Speaker 2>You'd appreciate this, Jonathan, that this is the white lotus

0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:21.519
<v Speaker 2>cunty little bobs.

0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:25.479
<v Speaker 1>I love your clb I love and I love your

0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.600
<v Speaker 1>side part. I love the side talk. And that was

0:17:27.639 --> 0:17:29.280
<v Speaker 1>like please, that was like so not to read on

0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:34.159
<v Speaker 1>your hair, but no, so yeah, So I feel like

0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:36.320
<v Speaker 1>I can see like how it's affected me, and I

0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.879
<v Speaker 1>have so much, like I have so much compassion for

0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:43.280
<v Speaker 1>myself because I just know how hard everything has been,

0:17:44.679 --> 0:17:48.000
<v Speaker 1>but not everybody knows how hard it's been. And it's

0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:50.159
<v Speaker 1>hard to figure out how to thread that needle of

0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:53.560
<v Speaker 1>like how much do you want to tell and how

0:17:53.639 --> 0:17:56.959
<v Speaker 1>much do you not talk about? And so that's like

0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:58.560
<v Speaker 1>a weird needle to thread because I think part of

0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:02.679
<v Speaker 1>my neurodivergence just wants to tell everybody everything, and that's

0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.800
<v Speaker 1>like not good some times sometimes you have to filter.

0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:11.439
<v Speaker 2>I think this is something that we your loving audience.

0:18:11.679 --> 0:18:14.919
<v Speaker 2>You know, you're loving public has observed in you, like

0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:17.199
<v Speaker 2>even in queer eye, you know which, we'll get to.

0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:21.080
<v Speaker 2>Your kind of role within the Fab five was a

0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:24.959
<v Speaker 2>lot of the emotional labor. It doesn't seem from the

0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:27.520
<v Speaker 2>outside that you know how to bring ten percent of

0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.919
<v Speaker 2>yourself to another person when they're really wanting and needing

0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:34.639
<v Speaker 2>to connect with you. Somehow you manage to center yourself

0:18:34.919 --> 0:18:37.680
<v Speaker 2>and bring one hundred percent of you. But that can

0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:42.959
<v Speaker 2>be exhausting, that can be that's very big work. How

0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:49.000
<v Speaker 2>do you replenish or reset or recalibrate after you've had

0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:53.960
<v Speaker 2>to or decided to share so much of yourself emotionally

0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:55.840
<v Speaker 2>and give so much of yourself emotionally.

0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:58.080
<v Speaker 1>Well. I think a part of it was, like I

0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:01.919
<v Speaker 1>when we went to Texas in season six, I just

0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:06.440
<v Speaker 1>stayed there, like I was so overwhelmed with fame and

0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:11.080
<v Speaker 1>with like the onslaught of attention, like from twenty eighteen

0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:13.840
<v Speaker 1>to twenty twenty that when we went to Austin to

0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:15.960
<v Speaker 1>shoot and then the world stopped, I was just like,

0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:19.920
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, no one, I'm just kind of here

0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.199
<v Speaker 1>in the woods in the middle of nowhere. And that

0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:26.160
<v Speaker 1>felt really comforting and I just in the last couple

0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:29.639
<v Speaker 1>of years have been like, oh wow, this level of

0:19:29.679 --> 0:19:34.119
<v Speaker 1>travel of living between like Texas and going so many

0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:36.239
<v Speaker 1>places for stand up and going so many places for

0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:38.799
<v Speaker 1>jab and hair when so much of my work is

0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:43.080
<v Speaker 1>like no longer at home like it was when I

0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:46.439
<v Speaker 1>decided to move there. So long answer, what I do

0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:49.520
<v Speaker 1>to replenish is I had a lot of alone time,

0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:52.840
<v Speaker 1>and I need a lot of alone time with like

0:19:52.879 --> 0:19:55.439
<v Speaker 1>my pets and like my husband and myself to like

0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:59.800
<v Speaker 1>just chill and kind of come back to myself. So

0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:01.880
<v Speaker 1>that's kind of what I did. And now I think

0:20:01.919 --> 0:20:05.159
<v Speaker 1>I've found a good balance of figuring out my work

0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.080
<v Speaker 1>life balance so that like I can give everything I

0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:10.479
<v Speaker 1>need to give when I'm working, and I still have

0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:13.840
<v Speaker 1>enough time to be with myself and my family and

0:20:13.879 --> 0:20:15.959
<v Speaker 1>my friends. And so I feel like I've gotten to

0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:17.840
<v Speaker 1>like a much better place of balance. But it was

0:20:18.639 --> 0:20:22.879
<v Speaker 1>such a disorienting experience be like, I mean, I just

0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:24.639
<v Speaker 1>was I mean, I was like a hairdresser doing like

0:20:24.679 --> 0:20:28.279
<v Speaker 1>a web series and then all of a sudden, like

0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:30.560
<v Speaker 1>my life changed so fast and so hard and so

0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:34.479
<v Speaker 1>getting it used to that and then yeah, it's just

0:20:34.639 --> 0:20:36.080
<v Speaker 1>it was, it just was so much. And so that's

0:20:36.159 --> 0:20:37.279
<v Speaker 1>kind of what I mean when I say, like, I

0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:40.959
<v Speaker 1>just have so much compassion for myself because it's been

0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:46.159
<v Speaker 1>so like ten years ago, me would just be like, dang, girl.

0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:50.560
<v Speaker 1>That is when you said you wanted to like become

0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:52.879
<v Speaker 1>famous like after our Gay of Thrones, you really, you

0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:55.439
<v Speaker 1>really that was so much harder that I thought it

0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:55.919
<v Speaker 1>was going to be.

0:20:58.679 --> 0:21:01.879
<v Speaker 2>After the break, Jonathan opens up about the tumultuous years

0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:04.479
<v Speaker 2>during and after college when he found himself caught in

0:21:04.639 --> 0:21:06.640
<v Speaker 2>cycles of drug use and sex addiction.

0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:07.720
<v Speaker 3>Stay with us.

0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.800
<v Speaker 2>You were the first male cheerleader in your high school

0:21:13.679 --> 0:21:17.040
<v Speaker 2>who then got a scholarship, a cheerleading scholarship to the

0:21:17.159 --> 0:21:23.200
<v Speaker 2>University of Arizona, where you began your studies in political science.

0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:28.479
<v Speaker 2>You must have this interest in the way that our

0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:31.000
<v Speaker 2>political systems work and the way that our cultural systems

0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:33.639
<v Speaker 2>work that goes much farther back. Why tell me a

0:21:33.679 --> 0:21:34.800
<v Speaker 2>little bit about that interest.

0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:37.800
<v Speaker 1>I think that really comes back to, like growing up,

0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:42.759
<v Speaker 1>my mom sold advertising in our local newspaper, so like

0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:44.679
<v Speaker 1>she would bring me to work after school, and I

0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:46.919
<v Speaker 1>would like run around to like the newsroom, and I

0:21:46.919 --> 0:21:49.440
<v Speaker 1>would run around to like the reporters and I'd be like, what,

0:21:49.679 --> 0:21:51.999
<v Speaker 1>like this is like pre computer. So it was like

0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:55.040
<v Speaker 1>they'd take like rubber cement and like razor things to

0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:57.560
<v Speaker 1>like cut things out and like glue it like you know,

0:21:57.639 --> 0:21:59.399
<v Speaker 1>on the pages to take to the press. It was

0:21:59.399 --> 0:22:02.639
<v Speaker 1>like amazing. And so I just was really curious and

0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:05.280
<v Speaker 1>interested in the news and like the process of the

0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:08.560
<v Speaker 1>news from a really early age, and so much so

0:22:08.679 --> 0:22:12.200
<v Speaker 1>that in the Bill Clinton sex scandal of ninety eight,

0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:15.600
<v Speaker 1>I wrote a paper that was not even like a

0:22:15.639 --> 0:22:18.800
<v Speaker 1>school assignment, like we had these like we had this

0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.399
<v Speaker 1>assignment where we had to get these like blank books

0:22:21.399 --> 0:22:23.959
<v Speaker 1>and write like your life story basically, and there was

0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:25.639
<v Speaker 1>like prompts, you know, like everyone made it and it

0:22:25.679 --> 0:22:27.600
<v Speaker 1>was like for your parents. And I was like, Mom,

0:22:27.879 --> 0:22:29.640
<v Speaker 1>we have to find where those books came from. I'm

0:22:29.639 --> 0:22:31.600
<v Speaker 1>going to write a full detailed report on the Bill

0:22:31.639 --> 0:22:34.640
<v Speaker 1>Clinton sex scandal. I pulled my entire class. I did

0:22:34.639 --> 0:22:36.719
<v Speaker 1>like a whole survey of my class. I wrote this

0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:40.840
<v Speaker 1>whole thing like and I was a very moral, god fearing,

0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:45.039
<v Speaker 1>Jesus loving nine year old. I was very like or eleven, No,

0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:48.159
<v Speaker 1>I think I was eleven. I was very disappointed in

0:22:48.159 --> 0:22:50.800
<v Speaker 1>Bill Clinton's actions and behaviors, and I just I was

0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:53.719
<v Speaker 1>a Ken Star apologist. I hate to say it, and

0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:55.479
<v Speaker 1>so and I wrote this whole report and then when

0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:58.800
<v Speaker 1>I wrote Over the Top, I was like, And back

0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:00.280
<v Speaker 1>then when I wrote, I was like, I'm going to

0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:01.960
<v Speaker 1>get this published. I just know someone's going to want

0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:05.880
<v Speaker 1>to publish my like two hundred word with my survey

0:23:06.040 --> 0:23:08.719
<v Speaker 1>from my sixth grade class, Like I just this is

0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:11.400
<v Speaker 1>going to be like what breaks my career. And then

0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:12.920
<v Speaker 1>when we sent it to someone and they never said

0:23:12.919 --> 0:23:14.280
<v Speaker 1>anything back, I was like, oh my god, my career

0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:16.359
<v Speaker 1>is over. I'm so sad. And then it was just

0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:19.520
<v Speaker 1>very fun to get to like put that report that

0:23:19.679 --> 0:23:21.840
<v Speaker 1>I commissioned for myself in over the Top, So if

0:23:21.879 --> 0:23:25.080
<v Speaker 1>you get Over the Top, it's literally in there, like

0:23:25.119 --> 0:23:27.800
<v Speaker 1>I put it in there as like an aside. It's

0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:30.520
<v Speaker 1>like a palate cleanser, because there was a really sad

0:23:30.600 --> 0:23:32.800
<v Speaker 1>chapter and then I needed something like funny and light,

0:23:32.879 --> 0:23:35.080
<v Speaker 1>so I put that in there, which it just makes

0:23:35.080 --> 0:23:37.080
<v Speaker 1>me laugh so hard every time I read it. It's

0:23:37.639 --> 0:23:38.439
<v Speaker 1>so funny.

0:23:38.720 --> 0:23:39.239
<v Speaker 3>I love that.

0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:42.280
<v Speaker 2>And what I love is that you didn't stick with

0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:45.520
<v Speaker 2>political science as a major. The world had other plans

0:23:45.560 --> 0:23:48.200
<v Speaker 2>for you. You had to kind of go through a big,

0:23:48.320 --> 0:23:52.119
<v Speaker 2>kind of crucible of becoming. When you got to college,

0:23:53.679 --> 0:23:56.080
<v Speaker 2>things did go a little bit pear shaped for you.

0:23:56.679 --> 0:24:00.199
<v Speaker 2>That's when your sex addiction, your drug addiction, some of

0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:05.880
<v Speaker 2>those impulsive, addictive behaviors really emerged. How do you think

0:24:05.919 --> 0:24:09.719
<v Speaker 2>about that time now? How do you share the story

0:24:09.760 --> 0:24:11.119
<v Speaker 2>of that time today?

0:24:11.879 --> 0:24:14.840
<v Speaker 1>You know, I don't. It's really one thing that I

0:24:14.879 --> 0:24:18.399
<v Speaker 1>feel like I could do better on. And I found

0:24:18.399 --> 0:24:20.879
<v Speaker 1>that after I wrote Over the Top, I was really

0:24:20.919 --> 0:24:23.159
<v Speaker 1>strong and brave in writing it, and it took so

0:24:23.280 --> 0:24:26.320
<v Speaker 1>much for me to write it, and then once it

0:24:26.359 --> 0:24:27.879
<v Speaker 1>came out and once I did the press for it,

0:24:27.919 --> 0:24:29.399
<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh my god, that felt like putting

0:24:29.399 --> 0:24:31.919
<v Speaker 1>my soul in a blender and then like eating it

0:24:32.000 --> 0:24:36.280
<v Speaker 1>every day, And like soul flavored gushers are just not

0:24:36.399 --> 0:24:38.639
<v Speaker 1>what I want to eat, Like I want to eat

0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:43.040
<v Speaker 1>like not that every day, and so like regular gushers,

0:24:43.159 --> 0:24:45.400
<v Speaker 1>which I'm really going through a phase with right now,

0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:49.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm really into gushers right now. But I've done so

0:24:49.359 --> 0:24:52.919
<v Speaker 1>much work in therapy and with my therapist in EMDR

0:24:52.960 --> 0:24:55.399
<v Speaker 1>to be able to talk about a situation without becoming

0:24:55.399 --> 0:24:58.679
<v Speaker 1>the situation. And I think that one thing that I

0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:03.560
<v Speaker 1>want to do better on is really raising more awareness

0:25:03.600 --> 0:25:06.719
<v Speaker 1>around the implication of this is like really political, but

0:25:07.520 --> 0:25:11.359
<v Speaker 1>raising more awareness around the implications of like defunding Planned

0:25:11.399 --> 0:25:13.679
<v Speaker 1>Parenthood in the United States and what that does to

0:25:13.800 --> 0:25:16.239
<v Speaker 1>sexual health and what that does to people's ability to

0:25:16.240 --> 0:25:19.679
<v Speaker 1>get testing and treatment for sexual health, and just this

0:25:20.119 --> 0:25:23.760
<v Speaker 1>like HIV and STIs do not care if you are

0:25:23.879 --> 0:25:28.679
<v Speaker 1>a Evangelical Christian because Evangelical Christians are, as we all know,

0:25:28.800 --> 0:25:30.959
<v Speaker 1>are doing the same thing that everybody else is doing.

0:25:31.919 --> 0:25:34.640
<v Speaker 1>And so I just think I really want to make

0:25:34.639 --> 0:25:38.320
<v Speaker 1>sure that other people are not because of that misinformation

0:25:38.639 --> 0:25:42.040
<v Speaker 1>and homophobia and transphobia and lack of care for queer people.

0:25:42.720 --> 0:25:44.960
<v Speaker 1>I really do believe in the eighties, if they had

0:25:44.960 --> 0:25:49.000
<v Speaker 1>taken HIV seriously, like when they first found it, like

0:25:49.320 --> 0:25:50.919
<v Speaker 1>I don't even know if I would have ended up

0:25:50.960 --> 0:25:54.039
<v Speaker 1>getting it or if the ripples are so big and

0:25:54.159 --> 0:25:57.800
<v Speaker 1>so huge in history because the most powerful nation in

0:25:57.879 --> 0:26:00.040
<v Speaker 1>the world at the time and still the United States,

0:26:00.119 --> 0:26:02.159
<v Speaker 1>like the President of the United States at the time,

0:26:02.240 --> 0:26:05.280
<v Speaker 1>Ronald Riggan, didn't say the word HIV until eighty seven,

0:26:05.359 --> 0:26:08.160
<v Speaker 1>after like thousands and thousands and thousands of people had

0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:10.480
<v Speaker 1>died and I just think that's one thing that people

0:26:10.520 --> 0:26:14.239
<v Speaker 1>really don't like understand, is like the level of like

0:26:14.800 --> 0:26:18.840
<v Speaker 1>persecution and injustice that like queer people went through is

0:26:18.879 --> 0:26:23.399
<v Speaker 1>a result of the HIV crisis. It's it's so so pervasive,

0:26:23.440 --> 0:26:24.800
<v Speaker 1>and so I wish that I could, I want to

0:26:24.800 --> 0:26:27.359
<v Speaker 1>do a better job about making sure that like young

0:26:27.399 --> 0:26:30.919
<v Speaker 1>people know that because like we don't have like history

0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:33.040
<v Speaker 1>or sexual health is really not taught to us, even

0:26:33.080 --> 0:26:35.040
<v Speaker 1>in like high school. So it's like a lot of

0:26:35.080 --> 0:26:38.679
<v Speaker 1>people are like leaving school like not truly not understanding

0:26:38.720 --> 0:26:42.359
<v Speaker 1>the roots of their of their community. And that I

0:26:42.359 --> 0:26:44.679
<v Speaker 1>think is really important in tur because they mean, these

0:26:44.800 --> 0:26:47.119
<v Speaker 1>these young people I sound so old, but like young

0:26:47.240 --> 0:26:49.759
<v Speaker 1>you know, they're voting, and they're voting for people that

0:26:50.119 --> 0:26:53.199
<v Speaker 1>you know, actively or dismantling the very safety net that

0:26:53.240 --> 0:26:55.760
<v Speaker 1>allows for people to make sure that they don't contract

0:26:55.919 --> 0:26:59.320
<v Speaker 1>HIV and that they and if they do contract an STI,

0:26:59.679 --> 0:27:01.600
<v Speaker 1>they will have a place to get treatment for it.

0:27:02.080 --> 0:27:05.639
<v Speaker 1>And and I think that's one thing that I wish

0:27:05.760 --> 0:27:07.760
<v Speaker 1>because like I didn't know that when I was that age,

0:27:07.879 --> 0:27:11.320
<v Speaker 1>and I always joke that, like when journalists asked me,

0:27:11.359 --> 0:27:13.800
<v Speaker 1>like what would you tell your younger self I'm always like,

0:27:14.320 --> 0:27:18.240
<v Speaker 1>don't do math, So I feel like between that, so

0:27:18.280 --> 0:27:20.520
<v Speaker 1>it's like that and then making sure that people really

0:27:20.639 --> 0:27:25.399
<v Speaker 1>understand what's important, and I really worry that people don't

0:27:25.600 --> 0:27:30.040
<v Speaker 1>understand like what's important at the right time.

0:27:30.879 --> 0:27:33.159
<v Speaker 2>I think that the way that you've chosen to share

0:27:33.280 --> 0:27:39.359
<v Speaker 2>your story so unvarnished, even when many people would be

0:27:39.520 --> 0:27:42.560
<v Speaker 2>tempted to paint maybe just one code of varnish on

0:27:42.760 --> 0:27:47.159
<v Speaker 2>you've always chosen radical honesty. I think, particularly because of

0:27:47.200 --> 0:27:50.480
<v Speaker 2>everything that you've just expressed so beautifully and eloquently, which

0:27:50.520 --> 0:27:53.560
<v Speaker 2>is that you don't want this to be about your story.

0:27:53.760 --> 0:27:57.520
<v Speaker 2>You want there to be benefit and growth and evolution

0:27:57.720 --> 0:28:00.199
<v Speaker 2>that comes from your experience. And it's interesting because I

0:28:00.280 --> 0:28:04.159
<v Speaker 2>even hesitated in thinking about talking to you about, you know,

0:28:04.200 --> 0:28:08.080
<v Speaker 2>your your time and experience with addiction, because I'm really

0:28:08.119 --> 0:28:11.120
<v Speaker 2>resistant to the idea that it has to be such

0:28:11.119 --> 0:28:13.360
<v Speaker 2>a core part of your identity, especially when there has

0:28:13.399 --> 0:28:16.479
<v Speaker 2>been so much time and you've had so many so

0:28:16.600 --> 0:28:19.040
<v Speaker 2>much more life and so many more things to talk

0:28:19.040 --> 0:28:21.520
<v Speaker 2>about since that time in your life. But I think

0:28:21.520 --> 0:28:23.880
<v Speaker 2>what I come back to and why it was important

0:28:23.879 --> 0:28:25.600
<v Speaker 2>to me to talk to you about it today, is

0:28:25.600 --> 0:28:29.240
<v Speaker 2>because you also write about how contracting HIV in many

0:28:29.240 --> 0:28:33.160
<v Speaker 2>ways saved your life, And there's that paradox, isn't it

0:28:34.119 --> 0:28:38.400
<v Speaker 2>for people who might not know that part of your story?

0:28:38.600 --> 0:28:41.080
<v Speaker 2>How did contracting HIV save your life?

0:28:41.400 --> 0:28:45.600
<v Speaker 1>Because it was the when I contracted HIV, I was

0:28:45.840 --> 0:28:51.719
<v Speaker 1>really a terrible relationship with math, and I was just

0:28:51.840 --> 0:28:55.200
<v Speaker 1>relapsing on math and using math. And for a lot

0:28:55.200 --> 0:28:57.640
<v Speaker 1>of people that have meth addiction are engaged in that

0:28:57.760 --> 0:29:02.840
<v Speaker 1>kind of like chem sex queer like culture. It is

0:29:04.080 --> 0:29:07.840
<v Speaker 1>so pervac and it is just everywhere you look. And

0:29:07.920 --> 0:29:13.600
<v Speaker 1>so I think that contracting HIV saved me because that

0:29:13.760 --> 0:29:16.320
<v Speaker 1>was the wake up call that got me to get

0:29:16.360 --> 0:29:19.959
<v Speaker 1>away from meth. And I think that if I hadn't

0:29:19.960 --> 0:29:24.160
<v Speaker 1>gotten AHIV, I would have just kept relapsing and at

0:29:24.200 --> 0:29:26.360
<v Speaker 1>one point one of those would have killed me, Like

0:29:26.400 --> 0:29:28.479
<v Speaker 1>I would have overdosed at some point. I mean, I

0:29:28.520 --> 0:29:31.280
<v Speaker 1>was like I was doing it all in all the ways.

0:29:31.960 --> 0:29:34.280
<v Speaker 1>And it's it's interesting because when I talk about it,

0:29:34.480 --> 0:29:37.759
<v Speaker 1>I feel this need to be like I wasn't like

0:29:37.840 --> 0:29:40.279
<v Speaker 1>doing it every day, and I wasn't, but there was

0:29:40.320 --> 0:29:42.680
<v Speaker 1>like a good bit there where like I just couldn't

0:29:42.760 --> 0:29:45.280
<v Speaker 1>get like because it's like once you dip your toe in.

0:29:45.440 --> 0:29:48.520
<v Speaker 1>It's really they're not kidding when they say if you

0:29:48.560 --> 0:29:50.759
<v Speaker 1>do it once, like you will be addicted. Like I

0:29:50.840 --> 0:29:53.200
<v Speaker 1>literally did it once and then it took me like

0:29:53.640 --> 0:29:55.999
<v Speaker 1>a few years to get to a place where like

0:29:56.080 --> 0:29:58.240
<v Speaker 1>I could like where I could never do it again.

0:29:58.760 --> 0:30:01.440
<v Speaker 1>And I mean I also quit smoking cigarettes. I think

0:30:01.440 --> 0:30:05.959
<v Speaker 1>that meth was harder, and yeah, it really is. I

0:30:06.080 --> 0:30:08.759
<v Speaker 1>learned more about it later and rehab, and it's like

0:30:09.640 --> 0:30:11.840
<v Speaker 1>it's like why we need more compassion for drug addicts

0:30:11.920 --> 0:30:15.920
<v Speaker 1>because if you, like hug, I'm gonna mess up these

0:30:15.960 --> 0:30:19.239
<v Speaker 1>like levels I'm gonna say like millimeters, but it's not millimeters.

0:30:19.480 --> 0:30:22.120
<v Speaker 1>It's like, however you break like measure like the endorphins

0:30:22.120 --> 0:30:24.000
<v Speaker 1>in your brain and like the chemicals in your brain.

0:30:24.280 --> 0:30:26.320
<v Speaker 1>But it's like if you hug someone, it's like you

0:30:26.360 --> 0:30:28.440
<v Speaker 1>get like fifty of them. If you eat, like you're

0:30:28.640 --> 0:30:30.800
<v Speaker 1>like this comfort food, like your favorite thing from like

0:30:30.840 --> 0:30:32.920
<v Speaker 1>your mom, you know, like this is your favorite thing

0:30:32.960 --> 0:30:35.640
<v Speaker 1>from you're little. It's like two hundred. Sex is like

0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:38.840
<v Speaker 1>five hundred, cocaine is like seven hundred and fifty, and

0:30:38.960 --> 0:30:42.239
<v Speaker 1>meth is like two thousand, five hundred. So it's like

0:30:42.280 --> 0:30:44.600
<v Speaker 1>from the time that someone does it once, it's like

0:30:44.680 --> 0:30:47.440
<v Speaker 1>your brain goes so high, it floods it with so

0:30:47.600 --> 0:30:50.240
<v Speaker 1>much good feelings that it's like it'll make it want

0:30:50.240 --> 0:30:53.680
<v Speaker 1>to go there again. And so that's like why kids

0:30:53.720 --> 0:30:55.760
<v Speaker 1>just do not do math. It's so not worth it.

0:30:55.760 --> 0:30:58.840
<v Speaker 1>It's like and either my rule of thumb is we

0:30:58.920 --> 0:31:00.959
<v Speaker 1>just don't do drugs that make us go up, like

0:31:01.000 --> 0:31:03.280
<v Speaker 1>it's just not worth it. Like so my grandpa used

0:31:03.280 --> 0:31:06.200
<v Speaker 1>to say, nothing good happens after night, Nothing good happens

0:31:06.240 --> 0:31:09.880
<v Speaker 1>after you do blow or math, but like the worst

0:31:09.920 --> 0:31:13.400
<v Speaker 1>thing that will happen, Well, I don't we shouldn't talk. Australia.

0:31:13.480 --> 0:31:15.440
<v Speaker 1>I love your weed loss, but I'm just saying weed is.

0:31:15.480 --> 0:31:19.520
<v Speaker 1>I think weed and like alcohol are just so much

0:31:19.600 --> 0:31:23.200
<v Speaker 1>less dangerous than that than the math. But alcohol's really

0:31:23.200 --> 0:31:23.520
<v Speaker 1>bad too.

0:31:23.560 --> 0:31:26.760
<v Speaker 2>Actually, it's interesting how you describe those levels of kind

0:31:26.800 --> 0:31:30.240
<v Speaker 2>of like that brain stimulation, because you've also spoken about

0:31:30.280 --> 0:31:32.920
<v Speaker 2>how when you were really living in that place of

0:31:32.960 --> 0:31:36.440
<v Speaker 2>addiction and not just you know, drugs and sex, but

0:31:36.480 --> 0:31:39.080
<v Speaker 2>you write about this with your impulse shopping and so

0:31:39.080 --> 0:31:41.640
<v Speaker 2>many of those kind of other impulsive behaviors, and you

0:31:41.720 --> 0:31:44.640
<v Speaker 2>described it at one point as kind of trying to

0:31:44.840 --> 0:31:47.239
<v Speaker 2>grab hold of the tail of the comet, which I

0:31:47.280 --> 0:31:52.160
<v Speaker 2>just loved that visual and that you knew you were

0:31:52.200 --> 0:31:54.840
<v Speaker 2>going to get this big dopamine hit, but that you

0:31:54.920 --> 0:31:58.400
<v Speaker 2>also knew that it wouldn't last. And I'm curious, now,

0:31:58.960 --> 0:32:03.920
<v Speaker 2>hot and healed, what's your dopamine supply that feels safer,

0:32:04.200 --> 0:32:08.999
<v Speaker 2>steady year, less costly to yourself in that kind of

0:32:09.400 --> 0:32:12.800
<v Speaker 2>psycho spiritual way, where do you get that hit?

0:32:13.240 --> 0:32:17.240
<v Speaker 1>It's totally my My group fitness is really like such

0:32:17.240 --> 0:32:21.800
<v Speaker 1>a thing. So I had been because like I think

0:32:21.840 --> 0:32:23.600
<v Speaker 1>the thing that kind of stepped in for like drugs

0:32:23.640 --> 0:32:26.999
<v Speaker 1>and sex, especially once I got queer, I was like

0:32:27.360 --> 0:32:30.160
<v Speaker 1>it was spending like because I was like, oh my god,

0:32:30.200 --> 0:32:32.759
<v Speaker 1>I can like buy things I've never had before. And

0:32:32.800 --> 0:32:35.680
<v Speaker 1>I really there was this perfect storm of like COVID

0:32:35.760 --> 0:32:39.120
<v Speaker 1>and isolating and moving to Texas and then finding out

0:32:39.160 --> 0:32:41.200
<v Speaker 1>the Equinox like had a board member that was supporting

0:32:41.200 --> 0:32:42.959
<v Speaker 1>the Trump campaigns. Then I stopped going there in like

0:32:42.960 --> 0:32:46.200
<v Speaker 1>twenty nineteen, had never been back since. So there's like

0:32:46.240 --> 0:32:48.960
<v Speaker 1>this perfect convergence of like me just not doing any

0:32:49.000 --> 0:32:52.800
<v Speaker 1>group fitness and for really like all my life, group

0:32:52.800 --> 0:32:54.959
<v Speaker 1>fitness has been like a part of something that I

0:32:54.960 --> 0:32:56.560
<v Speaker 1>did even when I didn't know I was doing it,

0:32:56.640 --> 0:32:59.680
<v Speaker 1>Like cheer was group fitness, Gymnastics was group fitness, like

0:33:00.120 --> 0:33:01.880
<v Speaker 1>I did tennis, I did swimming, like I just had

0:33:01.920 --> 0:33:04.680
<v Speaker 1>always had like a group kind of working out activity.

0:33:05.200 --> 0:33:08.640
<v Speaker 1>And once I wasn't doing yoga, and once I wasn't

0:33:08.680 --> 0:33:11.320
<v Speaker 1>because I had this whole like yoga thing post college,

0:33:11.560 --> 0:33:14.400
<v Speaker 1>like into like when queer I happened, and I just

0:33:14.440 --> 0:33:16.840
<v Speaker 1>wasn't doing anything in group fitness anymore. And I and

0:33:16.880 --> 0:33:20.080
<v Speaker 1>I think, I thought, like I don't have time, I'm

0:33:20.440 --> 0:33:22.519
<v Speaker 1>like building a business, I'm married. I just had like

0:33:22.560 --> 0:33:24.640
<v Speaker 1>it just became. And I also didn't want to get COVID,

0:33:25.040 --> 0:33:27.880
<v Speaker 1>But then I did get COVID like eighteen thousand times,

0:33:28.320 --> 0:33:30.840
<v Speaker 1>and then I was like still fine, And so then

0:33:31.480 --> 0:33:35.760
<v Speaker 1>I started my GLP one journey. And and to be honest,

0:33:36.360 --> 0:33:40.040
<v Speaker 1>I do think that GLP ones I do find that

0:33:40.040 --> 0:33:42.240
<v Speaker 1>they have made me less impulsive, not only with food

0:33:42.280 --> 0:33:45.360
<v Speaker 1>but like other things too, Like I do think that

0:33:45.480 --> 0:33:47.800
<v Speaker 1>like they will probably find that at some point because

0:33:47.840 --> 0:33:50.200
<v Speaker 1>like even with spending, which is like still my kind

0:33:50.200 --> 0:33:52.640
<v Speaker 1>of like kryptonite, like it has made me able to

0:33:52.720 --> 0:33:55.000
<v Speaker 1>like sit with impulses for like much longer to the

0:33:55.000 --> 0:33:56.600
<v Speaker 1>point where I'm like, Oh, I don't need that. I

0:33:56.600 --> 0:33:59.799
<v Speaker 1>don't want that, And that's really weird because I'm like, who,

0:33:59.920 --> 0:34:02.840
<v Speaker 1>what was that voice? I've never had that before. But

0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:05.880
<v Speaker 1>my group fitness is just oh, let me finish that story.

0:34:05.920 --> 0:34:09.200
<v Speaker 1>My ADHD is so intense today. So when I did

0:34:10.240 --> 0:34:13.200
<v Speaker 1>might start my GLP one journey, and after like a

0:34:13.200 --> 0:34:15.560
<v Speaker 1>couple months, I was like just like walking in the

0:34:15.600 --> 0:34:17.240
<v Speaker 1>gym and like doing things in the gym by myself.

0:34:17.279 --> 0:34:18.360
<v Speaker 1>And then I was like, Oh, why don't you go

0:34:18.440 --> 0:34:21.439
<v Speaker 1>back to pilates. You used to love plates. You haven't

0:34:21.440 --> 0:34:23.200
<v Speaker 1>been there in fifteen thousand years. But I was like

0:34:23.239 --> 0:34:26.439
<v Speaker 1>such a lagree girl in my twenties, and so then

0:34:26.440 --> 0:34:28.759
<v Speaker 1>I like found this for former place. I went there,

0:34:29.200 --> 0:34:31.200
<v Speaker 1>and when I came home and I got in the

0:34:31.200 --> 0:34:34.200
<v Speaker 1>shower and like the water like hit my back. I

0:34:34.360 --> 0:34:37.759
<v Speaker 1>cried harder than I have like ever cried in my

0:34:38.480 --> 0:34:43.440
<v Speaker 1>literal whole life. And I was like, you, silly be

0:34:44.680 --> 0:34:47.279
<v Speaker 1>you forgot this part of yourself that was like this

0:34:47.480 --> 0:34:51.000
<v Speaker 1>really important part of yourself of like regulating your neurodivergence

0:34:51.040 --> 0:34:53.279
<v Speaker 1>and regulating like how you relate to the world, and

0:34:53.360 --> 0:34:57.239
<v Speaker 1>like you were getting up in mainlining reading just the

0:34:57.239 --> 0:35:00.440
<v Speaker 1>worst things about yourself on Twitter for four years, like

0:35:00.560 --> 0:35:03.120
<v Speaker 1>why are you not getting up and moving your body?

0:35:03.120 --> 0:35:07.039
<v Speaker 1>You silly cow? And so then I was like, oh, yeah,

0:35:07.080 --> 0:35:09.200
<v Speaker 1>group fitness, like this is like when my brain feels

0:35:09.239 --> 0:35:12.520
<v Speaker 1>normal and normally the voice in my head is nice

0:35:12.560 --> 0:35:15.760
<v Speaker 1>for myself. But it was just like, oh, duh, yeah

0:35:16.080 --> 0:35:18.239
<v Speaker 1>that I just cut this part off of myself like

0:35:18.279 --> 0:35:20.680
<v Speaker 1>a dead foot in COVID and just never looked back.

0:35:21.520 --> 0:35:23.879
<v Speaker 1>And that was just I was like, oh wow, that

0:35:23.920 --> 0:35:25.519
<v Speaker 1>was like a huge part of myself to cut off.

0:35:25.719 --> 0:35:28.319
<v Speaker 1>And I've just i think since that day and like

0:35:28.440 --> 0:35:31.840
<v Speaker 1>January of last year, I think I've like not gone

0:35:32.320 --> 0:35:35.240
<v Speaker 1>to a group fitness class like ten times or something

0:35:35.320 --> 0:35:37.360
<v Speaker 1>like I'll take a Saturday off every once in a while.

0:35:37.880 --> 0:35:40.080
<v Speaker 1>But I just feel so good. It like regulates me

0:35:40.120 --> 0:35:41.839
<v Speaker 1>so much to be in a group of people that

0:35:42.680 --> 0:35:44.759
<v Speaker 1>just being treated the same as everyone else and doing

0:35:44.799 --> 0:35:46.680
<v Speaker 1>the same thing as everyone else. It is just so

0:35:46.840 --> 0:35:50.280
<v Speaker 1>regulating to my nervous system and it has really really

0:35:50.320 --> 0:35:53.640
<v Speaker 1>helped me in such a profound way that I'm like

0:35:53.719 --> 0:35:57.080
<v Speaker 1>kind of surprised still, like how much it's helped me

0:35:57.120 --> 0:35:57.680
<v Speaker 1>feel better.

0:36:00.640 --> 0:36:03.560
<v Speaker 2>Coming up next Jonathan talks about the conversation with a

0:36:03.600 --> 0:36:06.880
<v Speaker 2>friend that helped them understand and embrace their non binary

0:36:06.920 --> 0:36:14.680
<v Speaker 2>identity back in a tick. You've been very openly honest

0:36:14.799 --> 0:36:18.480
<v Speaker 2>about coming out as a non binary person and spoken

0:36:18.560 --> 0:36:23.719
<v Speaker 2>so beautifully about not fitting into easy categories. Do you

0:36:23.759 --> 0:36:27.520
<v Speaker 2>remember when that language became the language that made you

0:36:27.560 --> 0:36:30.080
<v Speaker 2>feel at home in your body when you went right, Yes,

0:36:30.200 --> 0:36:31.360
<v Speaker 2>that's what makes sense to me.

0:36:31.920 --> 0:36:34.439
<v Speaker 1>It was definitely a loak. It was definitely a loak,

0:36:34.520 --> 0:36:36.640
<v Speaker 1>like finding a loak on Instagram or maybe they told

0:36:36.640 --> 0:36:40.120
<v Speaker 1>me about it in person, but meeting a lookan becoming

0:36:40.160 --> 0:36:42.879
<v Speaker 1>friends with the loke, I think was the first time

0:36:42.920 --> 0:36:47.480
<v Speaker 1>where I was like, oh, yes, that's what this is.

0:36:48.200 --> 0:36:49.480
<v Speaker 1>So I always like take my hat off to a

0:36:49.520 --> 0:36:51.160
<v Speaker 1>locause I mean they really a locus, like my good

0:36:51.160 --> 0:36:53.720
<v Speaker 1>friend who's a comedian and a storyteller, and I always

0:36:53.719 --> 0:36:55.960
<v Speaker 1>say they're like the thought leader of our time, and

0:36:56.000 --> 0:36:58.040
<v Speaker 1>their Instagram and TikTok is amazing, and I just I

0:36:58.080 --> 0:36:59.919
<v Speaker 1>love them so much. But I think they were really

0:36:59.960 --> 0:37:03.720
<v Speaker 1>the first person that where like they validated my gender

0:37:03.719 --> 0:37:05.839
<v Speaker 1>expression in a way where I was like, and didn't

0:37:05.840 --> 0:37:09.399
<v Speaker 1>even validate it, just showed me a possibility model that

0:37:09.480 --> 0:37:11.560
<v Speaker 1>mirrored how I've already felt my whole life.

0:37:12.440 --> 0:37:14.920
<v Speaker 2>And you've talked about that, You've talked about how you

0:37:14.960 --> 0:37:16.879
<v Speaker 2>know your energy is kind of all over the place,

0:37:16.920 --> 0:37:18.879
<v Speaker 2>and some days you feel more masculine and some days

0:37:18.920 --> 0:37:23.200
<v Speaker 2>you feel more feminine. What is kind of ultimate freedom

0:37:23.560 --> 0:37:26.160
<v Speaker 2>in your gender expression feel like to you?

0:37:26.440 --> 0:37:31.040
<v Speaker 1>These days, it feels like just exactly what I'm doing.

0:37:31.080 --> 0:37:34.680
<v Speaker 1>The only thing that gives me like intense gender dysphoria

0:37:34.840 --> 0:37:40.800
<v Speaker 1>is ties, like ties and suits, Like I just want

0:37:40.840 --> 0:37:45.319
<v Speaker 1>to rip it off my body. I'm like Carrie with

0:37:45.480 --> 0:37:48.399
<v Speaker 1>insects and City with the dress, Like it really makes

0:37:48.440 --> 0:37:51.719
<v Speaker 1>me so like a suit and tie. Even now just

0:37:51.759 --> 0:37:54.439
<v Speaker 1>talking about it, I like like I want to run

0:37:54.480 --> 0:37:56.399
<v Speaker 1>away from you just talking about it, like.

0:37:56.520 --> 0:37:58.719
<v Speaker 2>I actually can't even I'm having a hard time even

0:37:58.880 --> 0:38:01.000
<v Speaker 2>visualizing you in a suit and tie.

0:38:01.080 --> 0:38:02.040
<v Speaker 3>It doesn't feel right.

0:38:02.360 --> 0:38:05.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's like I would only do it for like Halloween,

0:38:05.520 --> 0:38:07.680
<v Speaker 1>if I was going to be like some person in

0:38:07.719 --> 0:38:09.759
<v Speaker 1>a suit. But other than that, I feel like I

0:38:09.759 --> 0:38:12.000
<v Speaker 1>really am kind of living my freedom of my gender expression.

0:38:12.040 --> 0:38:14.839
<v Speaker 1>It's like, and I think one thing that like it's

0:38:15.000 --> 0:38:16.680
<v Speaker 1>caught up if you didn't even ask this, but I

0:38:16.680 --> 0:38:18.479
<v Speaker 1>love it. I'm going to talk about it. I think

0:38:18.520 --> 0:38:22.200
<v Speaker 1>for any queer person that's spoken out for trans inclusion

0:38:22.239 --> 0:38:26.200
<v Speaker 1>in sports or trans people's access to healthcare, it's like

0:38:27.799 --> 0:38:31.560
<v Speaker 1>you're painted is someone who's like trying to like prey

0:38:31.600 --> 0:38:34.120
<v Speaker 1>on children or change children's like gender expression. And my

0:38:34.160 --> 0:38:37.200
<v Speaker 1>whole thing around this persecution of trans people that we've

0:38:37.200 --> 0:38:39.480
<v Speaker 1>seen like across the world, it's that. And it's my

0:38:39.560 --> 0:38:44.279
<v Speaker 1>same thing with reproductive rights. It's about medical privacy. Any

0:38:44.360 --> 0:38:47.120
<v Speaker 1>person should be able to have like bodily autonomy on them,

0:38:47.239 --> 0:38:50.279
<v Speaker 1>like over their bodies, to like make the health care

0:38:50.279 --> 0:38:52.200
<v Speaker 1>decisions that they need to make, whether that relates to

0:38:52.239 --> 0:38:55.360
<v Speaker 1>gender expression or it relates to like having a baby.

0:38:55.799 --> 0:38:58.360
<v Speaker 1>And I just think that for governments to be telling

0:38:58.400 --> 0:39:01.640
<v Speaker 1>people that they know better of what they should do

0:39:01.680 --> 0:39:04.560
<v Speaker 1>with their bodies than the person does, is the true

0:39:04.560 --> 0:39:06.520
<v Speaker 1>really the most like Unamerican thing that you could do,

0:39:06.960 --> 0:39:08.719
<v Speaker 1>like for the Land of the Free and the home

0:39:08.759 --> 0:39:12.080
<v Speaker 1>of the brave. And we are like telling like forcing

0:39:12.400 --> 0:39:15.000
<v Speaker 1>women into birth in this country and telling parents that

0:39:15.040 --> 0:39:17.920
<v Speaker 1>if they have a child who has gender dysphoria, like

0:39:18.000 --> 0:39:20.999
<v Speaker 1>legitimate gender dysphoria. And I'm not saying that like every

0:39:21.080 --> 0:39:24.840
<v Speaker 1>kid who has questions around gender should be getting surgery.

0:39:24.880 --> 0:39:27.520
<v Speaker 1>But I'm saying that for the rare cases where some

0:39:27.600 --> 0:39:30.759
<v Speaker 1>kids do have extreme gender dysphoria, it can be life

0:39:30.799 --> 0:39:32.799
<v Speaker 1>saving treatment and a lot of times and most of

0:39:32.840 --> 0:39:35.200
<v Speaker 1>the time it's not surgery. So there's just there's so

0:39:35.279 --> 0:39:37.759
<v Speaker 1>much misinformation. But my whole thing always just comes down to,

0:39:37.840 --> 0:39:40.359
<v Speaker 1>like privacy. We should be able to have privacy around

0:39:40.400 --> 0:39:42.879
<v Speaker 1>our medical decisions, and the fact that that has been

0:39:42.920 --> 0:39:46.440
<v Speaker 1>taken away from twenty two million women in this country.

0:39:46.480 --> 0:39:49.480
<v Speaker 1>I think, or in the United States, is like crazy

0:39:49.520 --> 0:39:51.560
<v Speaker 1>that that's not what we're talking about like all the time.

0:39:52.000 --> 0:39:54.080
<v Speaker 2>I think it's so interesting, and again this is something

0:39:54.160 --> 0:39:58.160
<v Speaker 2>to have heard you speak about extensively, but broadly speaking,

0:39:58.239 --> 0:40:00.120
<v Speaker 2>it does feel like, even if you think about the

0:40:00.160 --> 0:40:02.719
<v Speaker 2>kind of height of queer eye, that it feels like

0:40:02.759 --> 0:40:06.440
<v Speaker 2>as a culture, we were kind of we were progressing,

0:40:06.440 --> 0:40:10.600
<v Speaker 2>we were evolving, we were normalizing to the point of

0:40:10.640 --> 0:40:14.839
<v Speaker 2>not having to be constantly even unpacking it the diversity

0:40:14.840 --> 0:40:19.120
<v Speaker 2>of gender expression in humanity. Does it feel like we

0:40:19.160 --> 0:40:19.960
<v Speaker 2>are backsliding?

0:40:19.960 --> 0:40:21.319
<v Speaker 3>To you, what is it like for you.

0:40:22.040 --> 0:40:25.160
<v Speaker 2>In America in this political moment. What's happening for you

0:40:25.239 --> 0:40:26.080
<v Speaker 2>and your community.

0:40:26.600 --> 0:40:29.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's awful. I mean, we've had so the Supreme

0:40:29.680 --> 0:40:34.480
<v Speaker 1>Court just held that states' rights are supreme in terms

0:40:34.560 --> 0:40:37.600
<v Speaker 1>of like a state can say that you cannot have

0:40:37.680 --> 0:40:40.319
<v Speaker 1>gender refirming care up to the age of eighteen. Some

0:40:40.360 --> 0:40:42.279
<v Speaker 1>have proposed laws that will go up to twenty six,

0:40:42.320 --> 0:40:44.759
<v Speaker 1>but the Supreme Court has I forget the name of

0:40:44.799 --> 0:40:48.039
<v Speaker 1>the case, but it has it sided with the state

0:40:48.160 --> 0:40:51.319
<v Speaker 1>and with Tennessee. So Tennessee's law that says that you

0:40:51.360 --> 0:40:54.760
<v Speaker 1>cannot get gender firming care until you're eighteen years old stands.

0:40:54.799 --> 0:40:58.359
<v Speaker 1>They're saying it's constitutional, and so they have essentially said

0:40:58.400 --> 0:41:02.440
<v Speaker 1>that it's parental rights for evangelicals and for Christians, but

0:41:02.560 --> 0:41:06.920
<v Speaker 1>not parents' rights for the parents trans of trans young people.

0:41:07.160 --> 0:41:10.919
<v Speaker 1>And the fact is is that you know, miners get

0:41:10.960 --> 0:41:14.320
<v Speaker 1>elective surgery all the time, like miners get nose jobs.

0:41:14.360 --> 0:41:18.200
<v Speaker 1>Miners get all sorts of augmentations, placid surgeries, tweaks, they

0:41:18.960 --> 0:41:22.240
<v Speaker 1>get shoulder surgeries, they get knee surgeries like high school athletes.

0:41:22.279 --> 0:41:24.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean, young people do get surgery. That is a fact.

0:41:24.799 --> 0:41:27.759
<v Speaker 1>And so I think the lawyer that argued this case,

0:41:27.759 --> 0:41:29.719
<v Speaker 1>who's a friend of mine, who I think is so incredible,

0:41:29.960 --> 0:41:32.320
<v Speaker 1>his name is Chase Strangio, and he was the first

0:41:32.759 --> 0:41:35.400
<v Speaker 1>openly trans lawyer to argue a case at the Supreme Court.

0:41:35.719 --> 0:41:38.040
<v Speaker 1>He's just saying, like, why is it that cys gender

0:41:38.080 --> 0:41:41.359
<v Speaker 1>young people are able to get these surgeries, Like, so

0:41:41.799 --> 0:41:44.319
<v Speaker 1>you know, a young sixteen year old boy who has

0:41:44.400 --> 0:41:47.759
<v Speaker 1>guino clemastia can go get guino clemastia removed, which is

0:41:47.799 --> 0:41:51.600
<v Speaker 1>gender affirming surgery, But a sixteen year old trans girl

0:41:51.719 --> 0:41:55.120
<v Speaker 1>can't get a breast augmentation. But we have sixteen year

0:41:55.120 --> 0:41:59.520
<v Speaker 1>old women getting breast augmentations with parental consent, So why

0:41:59.560 --> 0:42:02.400
<v Speaker 1>can't trans people do that? So that's that's what the

0:42:02.880 --> 0:42:06.040
<v Speaker 1>case is there, and whether or not someone's going to

0:42:06.080 --> 0:42:09.160
<v Speaker 1>have surgical or regret. I just don't think is society's

0:42:09.239 --> 0:42:14.080
<v Speaker 1>place to enforce that. It's an individual's freedom to do

0:42:14.320 --> 0:42:15.839
<v Speaker 1>with their body what they want, and I think we

0:42:15.840 --> 0:42:18.160
<v Speaker 1>should all have that freedom. And to be denied the

0:42:18.200 --> 0:42:19.799
<v Speaker 1>freedom to do with your body as long as you're

0:42:19.840 --> 0:42:22.680
<v Speaker 1>not hurting someone else, I think is really like just

0:42:22.759 --> 0:42:25.560
<v Speaker 1>so scary, especially when it comes to reproductive healthcare.

0:42:26.360 --> 0:42:29.640
<v Speaker 2>When it comes to kind of your political voice and

0:42:29.759 --> 0:42:34.200
<v Speaker 2>staying in the political fray. You've said that you want

0:42:34.239 --> 0:42:36.799
<v Speaker 2>to be so compassionate that you can talk to a

0:42:36.920 --> 0:42:40.560
<v Speaker 2>rabid Republican Q and honor and make them change their mind.

0:42:41.520 --> 0:42:43.440
<v Speaker 2>I want to know whether you've actually ever accomplished that

0:42:43.880 --> 0:42:45.479
<v Speaker 2>and if you still feel that way.

0:42:46.120 --> 0:42:49.719
<v Speaker 1>I do feel like that, but actually I did do it.

0:42:49.759 --> 0:42:52.080
<v Speaker 1>I mean that nice man in Queer I season nine

0:42:52.600 --> 0:42:55.879
<v Speaker 1>that I said like the crop failure thing too. I

0:42:55.880 --> 0:42:58.640
<v Speaker 1>always he had what was his name? He had such

0:42:58.640 --> 0:43:02.040
<v Speaker 1>a funny like dealer name that I forget. Anyway, he

0:43:02.120 --> 0:43:06.080
<v Speaker 1>was like a very like very ardent Trump's I wasn't

0:43:06.120 --> 0:43:07.879
<v Speaker 1>able to change his mind. I only had like a

0:43:07.880 --> 0:43:10.520
<v Speaker 1>few hours with him, but I would have needed like

0:43:10.680 --> 0:43:15.919
<v Speaker 1>three months at least. But I think my compassion is

0:43:15.920 --> 0:43:19.640
<v Speaker 1>is it's definitely a one. I think I've maybe changed

0:43:19.640 --> 0:43:23.080
<v Speaker 1>some mag of people's minds online maybe, But I do

0:43:23.160 --> 0:43:25.080
<v Speaker 1>have the compassion and I do still feel like that

0:43:25.400 --> 0:43:28.680
<v Speaker 1>because I do think that people that are supporting and

0:43:28.680 --> 0:43:31.360
<v Speaker 1>are actively supporting Trump's agenda now, I do think that

0:43:31.400 --> 0:43:36.560
<v Speaker 1>they've been exposed to really intense misinformation around undocumented immigrants,

0:43:36.560 --> 0:43:41.560
<v Speaker 1>around trans people, around around women, around abortion, around so

0:43:41.680 --> 0:43:44.799
<v Speaker 1>many things. You know, the fact that we have so

0:43:44.799 --> 0:43:47.640
<v Speaker 1>many people that think that it's snap benefits that are

0:43:47.719 --> 0:43:49.759
<v Speaker 1>draining the economy, and not the fact that we've like

0:43:50.320 --> 0:43:54.399
<v Speaker 1>given eleven billion dollars of like tax subsidies to Elon Musk.

0:43:54.440 --> 0:43:57.760
<v Speaker 1>It's like, it's definitely the billionaires. It's definitely not people

0:43:57.799 --> 0:43:58.759
<v Speaker 1>on snap benefits.

0:43:59.200 --> 0:44:02.560
<v Speaker 2>And as we've kind of discussed, when you choose to

0:44:03.000 --> 0:44:05.759
<v Speaker 2>be a public person and choose to try to use

0:44:05.759 --> 0:44:10.200
<v Speaker 2>that public platform to be a force for good, that's

0:44:10.600 --> 0:44:13.879
<v Speaker 2>big work. It can be exhausting and taxing work. And

0:44:13.920 --> 0:44:16.600
<v Speaker 2>I can only imagine that one of the ways beyond

0:44:16.640 --> 0:44:20.480
<v Speaker 2>group fitness, that you've also really refill that cup and

0:44:20.560 --> 0:44:23.160
<v Speaker 2>kind of keep your yourself safe and keep that battery

0:44:23.279 --> 0:44:26.000
<v Speaker 2>charged is with your beautiful husband, Mark, who I got

0:44:26.040 --> 0:44:28.280
<v Speaker 2>to meet for like twenty seconds when he was setting

0:44:28.360 --> 0:44:33.120
<v Speaker 2>up your microphone. There you got pandemic married. You've been

0:44:33.400 --> 0:44:38.160
<v Speaker 2>married for five years now. Congratulations, Thank you. How did

0:44:38.200 --> 0:44:39.319
<v Speaker 2>you know Mark is the one?

0:44:40.120 --> 0:44:43.520
<v Speaker 1>I just I don't know. I just did and it

0:44:43.560 --> 0:44:47.560
<v Speaker 1>felt like it was the right time, and so we

0:44:47.640 --> 0:44:50.640
<v Speaker 1>did and it was. I'm just so proud of our

0:44:50.680 --> 0:44:53.279
<v Speaker 1>relationship because neither of us have ever been in a

0:44:53.320 --> 0:44:59.000
<v Speaker 1>relationship this long, and we've navigated so much like difficult stuff,

0:44:59.320 --> 0:45:02.440
<v Speaker 1>and we've just it's everything's only ever brought us closer.

0:45:02.520 --> 0:45:04.120
<v Speaker 1>So I'm really just so proud of us.

0:45:04.640 --> 0:45:07.279
<v Speaker 2>And your animal family has been a really big part

0:45:07.320 --> 0:45:10.800
<v Speaker 2>of your life. Yourself is an animal parent, has always

0:45:10.799 --> 0:45:12.200
<v Speaker 2>been a really big part of who you are. I

0:45:12.239 --> 0:45:13.759
<v Speaker 2>can relate to that a lot. I've got my little

0:45:13.799 --> 0:45:16.480
<v Speaker 2>dog next to me right here, and so who are

0:45:16.560 --> 0:45:18.040
<v Speaker 2>your animal family at the moment?

0:45:18.560 --> 0:45:29.520
<v Speaker 1>We have an age order. We have Larry, Eliza, Mean, Nellie, Matilda, Genevieve, Elton, Baggy, Rose, George.

0:45:29.279 --> 0:45:33.279
<v Speaker 3>And these are dogs, cats and chickens.

0:45:33.719 --> 0:45:37.399
<v Speaker 1>No, those are all just the cats and dogs are dogs. Yeah,

0:45:37.640 --> 0:45:39.480
<v Speaker 1>we do still have chickens. A few of them have

0:45:39.680 --> 0:45:42.560
<v Speaker 1>like passed away, and those were really like more of

0:45:42.600 --> 0:45:45.640
<v Speaker 1>like Marx Department than my department. So I don't know

0:45:45.680 --> 0:45:50.200
<v Speaker 1>who's like currently still like laying the eggs back there.

0:45:50.480 --> 0:45:52.319
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so it's good I didn't quiz you on the

0:45:52.400 --> 0:45:54.440
<v Speaker 2>name and age of all of your chickens.

0:45:54.880 --> 0:45:58.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah I would have. Yeah, I'm not that's more Mars department.

0:45:58.239 --> 0:46:00.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't. I get scared to go down there, but

0:46:00.000 --> 0:46:00.920
<v Speaker 1>I do eat the eggs.

0:46:01.080 --> 0:46:02.840
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, no, fair enough.

0:46:03.480 --> 0:46:06.280
<v Speaker 2>You know, with how you are and how many different

0:46:06.360 --> 0:46:10.279
<v Speaker 2>projects you have going on at any given time. I'm

0:46:10.360 --> 0:46:14.279
<v Speaker 2>curious to know what home mode really feels like when

0:46:14.320 --> 0:46:19.080
<v Speaker 2>it's you and Mark and your fifty eleven pets. What's

0:46:19.120 --> 0:46:21.359
<v Speaker 2>the rhythm of your day, what's the rhythm of your life?

0:46:21.920 --> 0:46:26.319
<v Speaker 1>Well, we love Fortnite. We're like big gamers, so we

0:46:27.000 --> 0:46:30.680
<v Speaker 1>My favorite thing would be wake up, go to Pilate's,

0:46:31.000 --> 0:46:34.279
<v Speaker 1>come home, take the dogs to the dog park, like,

0:46:34.480 --> 0:46:39.040
<v Speaker 1>make breakfast, like on a day off, make breakfast, go upstairs,

0:46:39.040 --> 0:46:43.160
<v Speaker 1>play Fortnite for like three hours, come downstairs, put stuff away,

0:46:43.960 --> 0:46:46.359
<v Speaker 1>then get ready, then go meet our friends to do

0:46:46.440 --> 0:46:49.600
<v Speaker 1>something cute, like at brunch or something, or like a

0:46:49.880 --> 0:46:51.879
<v Speaker 1>like a like a I do. I just love an

0:46:51.880 --> 0:46:53.480
<v Speaker 1>early dinner on a day off so that I can

0:46:53.480 --> 0:46:56.200
<v Speaker 1>come back home and play Fortnite from like six to

0:46:56.320 --> 0:47:00.519
<v Speaker 1>like ten, and then I'll watch like realistically, like four

0:47:00.560 --> 0:47:03.080
<v Speaker 1>minutes of bake Off before I fall asleep at like

0:47:03.120 --> 0:47:03.640
<v Speaker 1>ten oh.

0:47:03.480 --> 0:47:06.439
<v Speaker 3>Four, Like a perfect day.

0:47:07.400 --> 0:47:09.960
<v Speaker 2>I also never in a million years would have guessed

0:47:10.040 --> 0:47:12.000
<v Speaker 2>that you were a Fortnite gamer.

0:47:12.279 --> 0:47:12.919
<v Speaker 3>And I love this.

0:47:13.120 --> 0:47:15.120
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I love Fornite. I have a whole set, I

0:47:15.120 --> 0:47:17.520
<v Speaker 1>have a whole bit and hot and healed about gaming

0:47:17.680 --> 0:47:21.920
<v Speaker 1>and about the ways in which I'm gaming has allowed

0:47:21.920 --> 0:47:25.000
<v Speaker 1>me to heal and find and connect more healthily to

0:47:25.040 --> 0:47:26.360
<v Speaker 1>some of my anger.

0:47:26.799 --> 0:47:30.120
<v Speaker 2>Which is a perfect segue because in these remaining minutes

0:47:30.160 --> 0:47:31.840
<v Speaker 2>that I have with you, and you've been so generous

0:47:31.840 --> 0:47:35.800
<v Speaker 2>with your time, Jonathan, Hot and healed, Hot and healed, baby,

0:47:36.200 --> 0:47:41.359
<v Speaker 2>coming down under. You'll be here next year. What can

0:47:41.400 --> 0:47:44.279
<v Speaker 2>we expect from this show? Where did this work and

0:47:44.360 --> 0:47:47.000
<v Speaker 2>this creation come from in you? What are you bringing

0:47:47.000 --> 0:47:49.200
<v Speaker 2>to the stage? Why do we all need to be there?

0:47:49.759 --> 0:47:54.120
<v Speaker 1>So in twenty twenty four, I was used in a

0:47:54.320 --> 0:47:57.320
<v Speaker 1>pro Trump campaign ad that they spent like two hundred

0:47:57.320 --> 0:48:01.440
<v Speaker 1>and twenty million dollars on that has this clip of

0:48:01.480 --> 0:48:06.279
<v Speaker 1>me meeting Kamala Harris and the voiceover says She's for

0:48:06.480 --> 0:48:11.000
<v Speaker 1>they them, and Trump's for you. And so that was

0:48:11.040 --> 0:48:13.640
<v Speaker 1>a very I just could in twenty twenty four, I

0:48:13.680 --> 0:48:15.439
<v Speaker 1>just could not catch a break. Okay, the only break

0:48:15.480 --> 0:48:18.600
<v Speaker 1>that I caught was that we won gold back in

0:48:18.640 --> 0:48:22.319
<v Speaker 1>the women's team gymnastics. But other than that, like, it

0:48:22.440 --> 0:48:25.640
<v Speaker 1>was just a rough year. And so really all of

0:48:25.680 --> 0:48:29.400
<v Speaker 1>this set is born out of the election fallout what

0:48:29.520 --> 0:48:33.200
<v Speaker 1>I learned in twenty twenty four, and it's about healing

0:48:33.200 --> 0:48:34.640
<v Speaker 1>through that and kind of what I think that we

0:48:34.640 --> 0:48:37.360
<v Speaker 1>need to do as a society to heal together. And

0:48:37.400 --> 0:48:39.800
<v Speaker 1>then it's also been and it's also about my healing journey,

0:48:40.160 --> 0:48:42.319
<v Speaker 1>Like I looked totally different than I did when I

0:48:42.360 --> 0:48:46.920
<v Speaker 1>first started this tour and that it was a total accident.

0:48:47.160 --> 0:48:50.280
<v Speaker 1>And it was also because I was healing from impulse

0:48:50.320 --> 0:48:53.759
<v Speaker 1>spending because I couldn't keep impulse spending bigger clothes, so

0:48:53.799 --> 0:48:55.280
<v Speaker 1>I had to figure out to fit in my old clothes,

0:48:55.320 --> 0:48:57.240
<v Speaker 1>which is like why I really got on GLP ones.

0:48:57.759 --> 0:48:59.279
<v Speaker 1>So I'm just kind of going over all of that

0:48:59.920 --> 0:49:02.719
<v Speaker 1>and all of the election fallout and really what I

0:49:02.759 --> 0:49:08.080
<v Speaker 1>think we need to do to heal pasts, Like really

0:49:08.080 --> 0:49:10.040
<v Speaker 1>what this this set is like dealing with. It's like

0:49:10.040 --> 0:49:12.759
<v Speaker 1>it's giving a lot of gender. I'm also getting into

0:49:12.799 --> 0:49:15.920
<v Speaker 1>like like talking to like white people in like a

0:49:15.960 --> 0:49:17.759
<v Speaker 1>new fun way and a way that I have it before,

0:49:17.799 --> 0:49:19.319
<v Speaker 1>where I'm just trying to like cause I know we

0:49:19.360 --> 0:49:21.560
<v Speaker 1>can be better. I know we got this. It's very

0:49:21.640 --> 0:49:24.799
<v Speaker 1>cheerleader base, but it's also like just fun and I

0:49:24.840 --> 0:49:27.319
<v Speaker 1>think it's it's the most like clever and I think

0:49:27.400 --> 0:49:30.680
<v Speaker 1>political comedy that I've ever done, and it's the most

0:49:30.920 --> 0:49:33.279
<v Speaker 1>I think really being connected to our speech is so

0:49:33.320 --> 0:49:35.759
<v Speaker 1>important right now, and so healing is really in the

0:49:35.799 --> 0:49:38.680
<v Speaker 1>center of it. But I've had a really unique experience

0:49:39.200 --> 0:49:41.719
<v Speaker 1>being featured on this campaign ad and having the chance

0:49:41.759 --> 0:49:44.439
<v Speaker 1>to meet Vice President former Vice presid Kamala Harris last year,

0:49:44.440 --> 0:49:47.759
<v Speaker 1>and so it's really kind of just breaking down what

0:49:47.799 --> 0:49:49.520
<v Speaker 1>I went through in twenty twenty four and how I've

0:49:49.560 --> 0:49:51.160
<v Speaker 1>healed from it, and what I think we can all

0:49:51.160 --> 0:49:53.039
<v Speaker 1>do to kind of come together better. But it really

0:49:53.120 --> 0:49:56.839
<v Speaker 1>is a fun show. And I would also say Australia

0:49:56.960 --> 0:50:00.560
<v Speaker 1>inspired me so much. And when I came down the

0:50:00.640 --> 0:50:03.640
<v Speaker 1>last time to do Fun and Slutty that it it

0:50:03.719 --> 0:50:06.799
<v Speaker 1>got a whole well or or was it Road to

0:50:06.799 --> 0:50:09.680
<v Speaker 1>Beijing or was it No, it was a MAJORI living

0:50:09.759 --> 0:50:12.200
<v Speaker 1>room Olympian the last time I did Australia, it was

0:50:12.239 --> 0:50:16.279
<v Speaker 1>imaginary living room Olympian. And when I came to do that,

0:50:16.440 --> 0:50:21.600
<v Speaker 1>I did this bit that bombed in Sydney and I said,

0:50:21.920 --> 0:50:25.080
<v Speaker 1>I was like, I'm HIV positive. This was my second pandemic,

0:50:25.239 --> 0:50:28.480
<v Speaker 1>and no one in this auditorium laughed, like no one

0:50:28.560 --> 0:50:30.600
<v Speaker 1>laughed and because I just they didn't have permission yet

0:50:30.600 --> 0:50:32.480
<v Speaker 1>to laugh. Like I just think that I just I

0:50:32.480 --> 0:50:34.239
<v Speaker 1>don't know. I don't I think my build up to

0:50:34.279 --> 0:50:36.239
<v Speaker 1>the joke was like wrong, I just had not practiced

0:50:36.239 --> 0:50:40.960
<v Speaker 1>it enough. So then I was like, oh, I'm sorry,

0:50:40.960 --> 0:50:43.720
<v Speaker 1>I did you know what I'd stand me? OHI sage,

0:50:44.719 --> 0:50:49.279
<v Speaker 1>ii'm hei CHOI V positive. This is my second pandemic.

0:50:49.480 --> 0:50:52.239
<v Speaker 1>And then I literally let everyone a chant where I

0:50:52.279 --> 0:50:55.200
<v Speaker 1>was like, say it wins may give me a hih

0:50:55.239 --> 0:50:56.960
<v Speaker 1>And then I was like hih and I was like,

0:50:56.960 --> 0:50:59.480
<v Speaker 1>give me an oi oi and I was like, give

0:50:59.520 --> 0:51:01.560
<v Speaker 1>me a may. What's this spell? And then we literally

0:51:01.640 --> 0:51:04.400
<v Speaker 1>chanted HIV and then I was like, you guys, was

0:51:04.840 --> 0:51:07.440
<v Speaker 1>with you? Why are we chanting HIV? So I totally

0:51:07.480 --> 0:51:09.640
<v Speaker 1>made it funny and we made it work. But I

0:51:09.759 --> 0:51:12.960
<v Speaker 1>ended up taking that experience and I worked that into

0:51:13.080 --> 0:51:15.560
<v Speaker 1>the show and so for the rest of my tour

0:51:15.680 --> 0:51:17.879
<v Speaker 1>after that, I did a call and repete of like

0:51:18.279 --> 0:51:21.920
<v Speaker 1>hate choive heighte CHOI ve like in an Australian accent,

0:51:22.680 --> 0:51:25.359
<v Speaker 1>yes with the h and even so much so that

0:51:25.400 --> 0:51:27.200
<v Speaker 1>in my first special that came out last year, Fun

0:51:27.239 --> 0:51:29.359
<v Speaker 1>and Sluttie, I like tell that story and it's it's like,

0:51:29.600 --> 0:51:32.960
<v Speaker 1>so in this set will be more polished for you guys.

0:51:33.120 --> 0:51:36.000
<v Speaker 3>So we've played our little part as Australian.

0:51:36.160 --> 0:51:38.920
<v Speaker 1>It was a big part. I love a big part,

0:51:39.560 --> 0:51:40.959
<v Speaker 1>and I'm so excited to come back.

0:51:41.160 --> 0:51:43.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh, we're so excited to have you. You're such a

0:51:44.040 --> 0:51:48.279
<v Speaker 2>deeply funny person. You are a great comedian, and I

0:51:48.320 --> 0:51:51.960
<v Speaker 2>think it's because almost to exactly the story you just shared.

0:51:52.000 --> 0:51:55.999
<v Speaker 2>You know, your comedy is rooted in compassion, it's rooted

0:51:56.000 --> 0:52:00.120
<v Speaker 2>in lived experience, it's rooted in a real desire to

0:52:00.200 --> 0:52:03.960
<v Speaker 2>help people move, even if it's just incremental, you know,

0:52:04.120 --> 0:52:07.240
<v Speaker 2>one more inch towards loving themselves more. I think really

0:52:07.360 --> 0:52:10.880
<v Speaker 2>is where you begin and where your work really begins.

0:52:11.759 --> 0:52:14.680
<v Speaker 2>So we're very excited to have you. It's remarkable to me.

0:52:14.880 --> 0:52:16.920
<v Speaker 2>You know, we covered a lot of ground and a

0:52:16.920 --> 0:52:20.719
<v Speaker 2>lot of quick pivots in this conversation because at only

0:52:20.799 --> 0:52:23.240
<v Speaker 2>thirty eight, which is crazy, because you've.

0:52:23.040 --> 0:52:24.320
<v Speaker 3>Lived so much life.

0:52:24.920 --> 0:52:28.120
<v Speaker 2>I just find your story so full, so astonishing, and

0:52:28.160 --> 0:52:31.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm so excited for the next chapters, the next books,

0:52:31.560 --> 0:52:33.680
<v Speaker 2>the next poor all of it me too.

0:52:34.160 --> 0:52:36.399
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much for your time. This has been

0:52:36.440 --> 0:52:37.200
<v Speaker 3>such a joy.

0:52:37.320 --> 0:52:38.120
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for having me.

0:52:40.239 --> 0:52:40.600
<v Speaker 3>Friends.

0:52:40.600 --> 0:52:43.440
<v Speaker 2>That was Jonathan van Ness, and I'm so grateful for

0:52:43.480 --> 0:52:47.160
<v Speaker 2>how open and generous they were in this conversation. Jonathan

0:52:47.200 --> 0:52:49.920
<v Speaker 2>has lived through things that would have broken many people,

0:52:50.040 --> 0:52:52.080
<v Speaker 2>and yet they've found a way to turn their pain

0:52:52.239 --> 0:52:56.640
<v Speaker 2>into purpose, humor, joy and connection. Speaking with them as

0:52:56.680 --> 0:53:00.759
<v Speaker 2>a reminder that recovery isn't linear, identity isn't fixed, and

0:53:00.799 --> 0:53:02.839
<v Speaker 2>healing can be as complex.

0:53:02.480 --> 0:53:03.440
<v Speaker 3>As it is beautiful.

0:53:04.040 --> 0:53:06.600
<v Speaker 2>And if you want to experience Jonathan in person, and

0:53:06.640 --> 0:53:10.120
<v Speaker 2>why wouldn't you? Their Hot and Healed tour kicks off

0:53:10.160 --> 0:53:12.759
<v Speaker 2>in Brisbane on the twenty fifth of February and then

0:53:12.799 --> 0:53:16.080
<v Speaker 2>travels all around Australia. For tickets and all the details,

0:53:16.200 --> 0:53:19.360
<v Speaker 2>check the show notes. The executive producer of No Filter

0:53:19.520 --> 0:53:23.960
<v Speaker 2>is myself Naima Brown, The senior producers pre player audio

0:53:24.040 --> 0:53:27.400
<v Speaker 2>editing by Tina Matalov with video editing by Josh green

0:53:28.000 --> 0:53:31.080
<v Speaker 2>I guest hosted today's episode, but you'll be excited to

0:53:31.160 --> 0:53:34.160
<v Speaker 2>know that Kate Lankerbrook will be back next Monday with

0:53:34.279 --> 0:53:36.400
<v Speaker 2>an all new episode of No Filter.

0:53:44.560 --> 0:53:47.440
<v Speaker 1>Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and

0:53:47.520 --> 0:53:49.759
<v Speaker 1>waters that this podcast is recorded on