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Speaker 1: You're listening to I'm on the May podcast. When I

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Speaker 1: contracted each IV, I was really an terrible relationship with

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Speaker 1: meth and I was just relapsing on meth and using meth.

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Speaker 1: And for a lot of people that have meth addiction

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Speaker 1: are engaged in that kind of like chem sex queer

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Speaker 1: like culture. It is so pervasive and it is just

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Speaker 1: everywhere you look. And so I think that contracting HIV

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Speaker 1: saved me because that was the wake up call that

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Speaker 1: got me to get away from meth. And I think

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Speaker 1: that if I hadn't gotten HIV, I would have just

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Speaker 1: kept relapsing and at one point one of those would

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Speaker 1: have killed me, Like I would have overdosed at some point.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I was like I was doing it all

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Speaker 1: in all the ways. Hi.

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Speaker 2: Everyone, it's Naima Brown, executive producer of No Filter.

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Speaker 3: Here.

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Speaker 2: I'm stepping in and as your special guest host on

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Speaker 2: this episode while Kate enjoys her summer break, and I

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Speaker 2: couldn't be more thrilled about today's guest. Jonathan van Ness

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Speaker 2: is one of the most recognizable and beloved people on

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Speaker 2: reality television. He's the heart of Queer Eye, the creator

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Speaker 2: of Getting Curious, a New York Times best selling author,

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Speaker 2: a comedian, a hair care founder, an activist, and someone

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Speaker 2: who has built a global audience just by being completely

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Speaker 2: and unapologetically themselves. But the Jonathan you're about to hear

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Speaker 2: today isn't just the larger than life performer. It's the

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Speaker 2: real person underneath the fame, the one who has survived

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Speaker 2: some incredibly dark chapters and who speaks with extraordinary honesty

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Speaker 2: about them. We talk about the addictions Jonathan is battled,

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Speaker 2: including drug use and sex addiction, and the ways those

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Speaker 2: addictions intertwined with shame, secrecy, trauma, and the deep need

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Speaker 2: to feel worthy of love. They tell me about relapse, recovery,

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Speaker 2: the terrifying moments when they didn't know who they were anymore,

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Speaker 2: and the people, the practices, and some pets that pulled

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Speaker 2: them back into the world. We talk about joy to

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Speaker 2: where they find it now, how they protect it, and

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Speaker 2: how they continue to show up in a world that

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Speaker 2: has asked them to be an educator, a role model,

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Speaker 2: an activist, a comfort and a source of light, all

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Speaker 2: while they've been trying to navigate their own inner landscape.

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Speaker 2: Here is Jonathan van Ness. Jonathan van Ness, or is

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Speaker 2: I like to think Jonathan Van Yes, welcome to No Filter.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's my pleasure.

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Speaker 2: I actually wanted to start this conversation somewhere a little

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Speaker 2: bit differently, and we might not even use this, but

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Speaker 2: I just did want to have this kind of moment

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Speaker 2: of connection with you because I've been so steeped. I've

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Speaker 2: been following you for a very long time, but obviously

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Speaker 2: for the past few weeks. I just I've been everywhere

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Speaker 2: I go, I've got you in my ears, reading your words,

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Speaker 2: just very steeped in you. And one of the things

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Speaker 2: I've heard you talk about is how and I know

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Speaker 2: this was back with the publication of your first book,

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Speaker 2: but how sometimes interviews could be retraumatizing or triggering, and

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to ask if there's anything you want

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Speaker 2: me to know about how your day's been so far,

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Speaker 2: about where you are in life, any boundaries you want

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Speaker 2: me to be clued into so that this can be

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Speaker 2: a great experience for you.

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Speaker 1: It's so funny that you say that, because yesterday I

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Speaker 1: was doing this interview and I all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: started getting like grilled on like World HIV Day and

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Speaker 1: what I think we need to do internationally for like

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Speaker 1: HIV policy, which I'm happy to talk to, but I

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Speaker 1: was just marveling at myself because I was like, Wow,

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Speaker 1: I've gotten so good at just like here to chat comedy,

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Speaker 1: but I'm going to talk about HIV because it's all

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Speaker 1: one big gorgeous ball of human experience or we're slaying it.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, no, you can. You can go wherever I

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Speaker 1: think will be good. I feel good today. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: It's so interesting, johnath Than, because feel like this has

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Speaker 2: kind of just grounded us right where I really wanted

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Speaker 2: us to kind of again, which is in the joy

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Speaker 2: and the laughter and just the the openness that you

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Speaker 2: bring to everything that you have done in the public eye.

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Speaker 2: You've shared so much of yourself with us, with the world,

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Speaker 2: and not just in your books, but in ten Seasons

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Speaker 2: of Queer Eye, in your own podcast Getting Better, and

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Speaker 2: in your stand up comedy performances which are incredible, and

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Speaker 2: now you're touring with a show called Hot and Healed,

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Speaker 2: which I love because I feel like that's actually such

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Speaker 2: a great container for this conversation and for talking about

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Speaker 2: the incredible life that you have lived and are still living.

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Speaker 2: Because as anyone who's been following you would know you

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Speaker 2: haven't always felt hot and healed? Are you feeling hot

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Speaker 2: and healed today?

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Speaker 1: I am, although you know what makes me laugh. I

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Speaker 1: came up with this title because I was like, I

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Speaker 1: need a fun alliteration, and it was like twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: four and I didn't even know I was going to

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Speaker 1: start taking a GLP one yet. And then I did

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Speaker 1: start taking one, I accidentally lost like seventy pounds. I've

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Speaker 1: never been so muscily in my life because I got

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Speaker 1: kind of addicted to like Lagree pilates, and so now

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Speaker 1: I could just like kind of I think I could

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Speaker 1: survive on Mageddon. Frankly, like I am just so like

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Speaker 1: I've never been so strong on this like pilates table,

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Speaker 1: and so now I'm kind of realizing brand wise, people

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Speaker 1: are like, oh, he thinks he's like hot and healed

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Speaker 1: because there was like a globe, and I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: I was always super hot and healed. I well, I've

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Speaker 1: always been healing. I wouldn't say I'm healed. It's part

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Speaker 1: of what the set's about is that it's really a journey,

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Speaker 1: not a destination, this whole healing healed thing. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just want to make clear I always thought I

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Speaker 1: was really cute, and I am really cute now, and

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Speaker 1: I was also cute when I named this who are

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Speaker 1: Hot and Healed? Last year? I just who knew that

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Speaker 1: the weight was going to come off that fast? And

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Speaker 1: I already made the sweatshirts and they say hot and healed,

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Speaker 1: so I couldn't change it. And you know, sometimes I

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Speaker 1: guess I guess I could have pivoted halfway through. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, but yeah, I feel hot and healed, but

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Speaker 1: I guess I already did.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 2: And I have a sense, Jonathan, that with the work

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Speaker 2: that you have done internally, that wherever you might be

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Speaker 2: a year from now, wherever you might be ten years

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Speaker 2: from now, I'm actually really excited about, Like what what's

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Speaker 2: like an eighty year old Jonathan van Ness going to

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Speaker 2: be all about? And I think you're going to be

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Speaker 2: hot and healed then in whatever form do you do

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Speaker 2: you ever think about old age and what.

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Speaker 3: What you want that to look like.

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Speaker 1: I want to get there. Yeah, I want to get there.

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Speaker 1: I know that much. I would like to be like

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Speaker 1: a blend of Dorothy Blanche and Rose Ovs, except for

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Speaker 1: I do want a needle point. I don't think the

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Speaker 1: three of them had any crafts or their characters like

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Speaker 1: had that new maybe did one of them cross stitch.

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Speaker 1: I just want to make sure I'm needle pointing having

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Speaker 1: more pets. They weren't a pet household, so that wouldn't

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Speaker 1: work for me. But they no, so that wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: That won't work. But hopefully there's gonna be needle pointing

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Speaker 1: and cheesecake and late night chats. But oh, oh, I can't. Oh.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be a widow though. I need

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Speaker 1: my husband to be there. So like my husband me

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Speaker 1: and then like some other fun friends eating cheesecake. Hopefully.

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Speaker 2: I love this idea. It's an alternate version of The

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Speaker 2: Golden Girls. Where there's pets, where there's your lovely mark,

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Speaker 2: where there's you know, maybe more plants, and I don't know,

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Speaker 2: maybe not Florida.

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Speaker 3: Yeah where they were I think.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not Florida. I don't think we'll be able

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Speaker 1: to do Florida.

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Speaker 3: No, We'll pick somewhere else.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I want to swing the pendulum all the way to

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Speaker 2: the other side, you know, from kind of imagining what

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Speaker 2: really old Jonathan might look like, all the way back

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Speaker 2: to the beginning of your story. You grew up in

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Speaker 2: a really conservative Midwestern town called Quincy, Illinois. You describe

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Speaker 2: yourself as having been a really sem little kid who

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Speaker 2: loved scarves, loved nail polish. And that's not something that

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Speaker 2: the adults in your life nurtured. It's something that you

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Speaker 2: coped a lot of shame and internalized a lot of

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Speaker 2: shame around and about. And you know, you've spoken so

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Speaker 2: extensively about that experience and about that time in your life.

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Speaker 2: And I suppose what I really want to know is

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Speaker 2: where did that commitment to self expression that you've always

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Speaker 2: had in spite of or despite the fact that that

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Speaker 2: sometimes put you in the crosshairs of that externalized shame,

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Speaker 2: or it cost you sometimes in the social or in

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Speaker 2: the family sphere. Yet you seem to have never been

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Speaker 2: willing to be anything other than the fullest expression of yourself.

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Speaker 2: Where do you think that that came from.

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Speaker 1: It's a really good question. I think maybe watching figure

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Speaker 1: skating and gymnastics too young, like before, I just you know,

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Speaker 1: just seeing these women express themselves with such like ferocity,

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Speaker 1: I just was like, ah, but I just that's like

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Speaker 1: a joke. My brain always goes there because I was

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Speaker 1: just so obsessed with it as a child and still am.

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Speaker 1: But I think I do think that there was just

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Speaker 1: like an innate sense. I think that even if like

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Speaker 1: my family had been from New York City, I think

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Speaker 1: I still would have been exactly how I am. I

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Speaker 1: just there was a need to dance and be free

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Speaker 1: and ask a lot of questions and be a chatterbox.

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Speaker 1: And so I just think I've always been this person,

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Speaker 1: and I think I just am so excited that I

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Speaker 1: get to nurture that in ermy that didn't have the

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Speaker 1: nurturing then but has it now. And I think so

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Speaker 1: much of my mission is like trying to help other

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Speaker 1: And I talk about this a lot and over the top,

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Speaker 1: like I want to help other little jbns, like other

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Speaker 1: little you know, kids and young people and people my age,

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Speaker 1: just anyone who's felt like othered and like they're like

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Speaker 1: who they were wasn't there wasn't space for who they were,

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Speaker 1: because I really do believe that there is space for

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Speaker 1: everyone to be seen and celebrated for who they are.

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Speaker 2: Something that you've done that really has stuck with me

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Speaker 2: because I think it's connected in many ways. You grew

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Speaker 2: up in a I believe both of your parents were

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Speaker 2: journalists or your mother was a journalist.

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Speaker 1: Both My parents worked in like TV and newspapers.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so you.

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Speaker 2: Grew up around the kind of craft of storytelling. And

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Speaker 2: one of the things that you did in your second

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Speaker 2: memoir was I consider a piece of beautiful journalism, which

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Speaker 2: was to go back to Quincy, a place where you'd

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Speaker 2: felt quite adrift and alone in your youth and in

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Speaker 2: your kind of coming of age, and you uncovered in

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Speaker 2: many ways the queer history of Quincy that, for whatever reason,

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Speaker 2: when you were there and would have benefited from it,

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Speaker 2: it was still quite hidden and covered, so you weren't

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Speaker 2: able to kind of, you know, grab hold of it,

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Speaker 2: but you almost excavated it, you know, like with one

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Speaker 2: of those little archaeology so that it could be recovered

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Speaker 2: and be available to other queer kids and young people

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Speaker 2: or just I suppose any people in Quincy who want

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Speaker 2: to avail themselves of that history and that space. That

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Speaker 2: must have been an incredible experience for you.

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Speaker 1: It was so fun. There was always this bar that

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Speaker 1: I walked by and saw because it was like kind

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Speaker 1: of like in our downtown, which is really little, and

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Speaker 1: it had like a rainbow. So I always knew that

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Speaker 1: was like the gay bar, but I didn't really know

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Speaker 1: who owned it or like what the story on that was.

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Speaker 1: And so getting to research the owner and then I

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Speaker 1: found other queer people in Quincy and their stories, and

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Speaker 1: it ultimately in the eighties had been a play the

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Speaker 1: late eighties and early nineties became like an HIV testing

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Speaker 1: They turned one of the dressing rooms that the queens

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Speaker 1: would get ready and to perform into like an HIV

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Speaker 1: testing center because they needed space. And it just was

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Speaker 1: such an incredible story. And actually the former mayor of

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Speaker 1: the city that I interviewed, whose wife was the nurse

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Speaker 1: that was, you know, really at the time, so incredibly

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Speaker 1: brave and courageous for doing the work that she did

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Speaker 1: in Quincy because there was so much anti HIV stigma

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Speaker 1: in fear. He was a former mayor Quincy, he just

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Speaker 1: passed away. My mom literally just told me that when

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Speaker 1: she was here visiting. But what an incredible man. And

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Speaker 1: I think that it was so cathartic. It also inspired

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Speaker 1: me to write my last book, which was called Let

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Speaker 1: Them Stare, which is about this like young gender non

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Speaker 1: conforming kid who just can't wait to get out of

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Speaker 1: their hometown, and then all their plans change and they

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Speaker 1: end up getting stuck in their hometown and they impulse

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Speaker 1: by this fierce vintage bag with the last of their money,

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Speaker 1: which is such a me thing to do, and it's priceless, honey.

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Speaker 1: It's basically like a burken of my fantasy world, but

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Speaker 1: it's like even more expensive. It's like on antiqu roachow

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Speaker 1: could get Sully like a million dollars, but it's haunted

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Speaker 1: by a drag queen from the fifties, and then like

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Speaker 1: intergenerational ghosty best friendship ensues and so literally going back

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Speaker 1: and doing that those interviews in that research inspired me

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Speaker 1: to ultimately write my first fiction novel, which was so fun.

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Speaker 2: One of the things I've heard you say a lot

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Speaker 2: across all of the different platforms in which you kind

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Speaker 2: of share yourself with us, is especially when you're reminiscing

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Speaker 2: on times that were more challenging whilst you were also

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Speaker 2: in the public eye, Like once you'd kind of become

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Speaker 2: a public figure, as you talk about sometimes really heavy,

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Speaker 2: big intense things happening in your actual life, and then

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Speaker 2: you refer to it as flipping a switch into that

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Speaker 2: kind of happy smiley.

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Speaker 3: I'm here to make you laugh.

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Speaker 2: Performative, but I don't mean that in a disingenuous way.

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Speaker 2: But entertaining us. Was that something that started when you

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Speaker 2: were quite young, perhaps even as a way to cope

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Speaker 2: with some of that external shame that was coming your way.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, and I think not only even just like external

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Speaker 1: shame that was coming my way, but just enter like

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Speaker 1: familial conflict and just really any conflict. Like I would

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Speaker 1: just I wanted to make people laugh, and so if

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Speaker 1: I saw people having a hard time, I was just like,

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Speaker 1: oh my, I got this. I'll make everybody laugh.

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Speaker 2: As we've established with the hot and healed idea, you've

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Speaker 2: always been hot, You'll always be hot with the healed

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Speaker 2: side of things. I wonder if that flipping the switch

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Speaker 2: to be happy, smiley Jonathan for the rest of us

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Speaker 2: is something you do less or maybe with more awareness

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Speaker 2: now or do you feel do you feel less like

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Speaker 2: that's something you owe your audience if it's not really

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Speaker 2: where you are.

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Speaker 1: It's there's a I will tell you that in this

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Speaker 1: in this bit, I'm I'm doing this bit on healing

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Speaker 1: from people pleasing and so that is like one thing

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Speaker 1: that I think is really funny. I think it's something

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Speaker 1: that so many people struggle with, and it's it's like

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Speaker 1: an ongoing process because the truth is is that a

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Speaker 1: part of me is happy, smiley Jonathan all the time.

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Speaker 1: Like that part is truthfully like always in there, even

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Speaker 1: when things are really bad and awful. And I've had

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Speaker 1: some of like this the worst saddest things happen, and

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Speaker 1: I can usually access this part that's like really really joyful,

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Speaker 1: not the whole time, but I have like a connection

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Speaker 1: to that me at all times. So it's like when

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Speaker 1: I need to be that person, I'm not even it's

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Speaker 1: it's not like a disingenuous thing. And my husband and

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Speaker 1: I've explored how like in public, if one of those

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Speaker 1: really bad things have happened and then someone's like really

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Speaker 1: excited to meet me, like just I'm in like in

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Speaker 1: an airport or getting in like a car somewhere and

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Speaker 1: someone's like, oh my god. There's like I can count

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Speaker 1: on one hand I think how many times I've said like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm so sorry, like XYZ just happened.

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Speaker 1: I just amount up to it. I will feel bad

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Speaker 1: about it for like three days like afterwards. It's like

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Speaker 1: it truthfully is easier for me to like just take

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Speaker 1: the selfie, and I actually and I really do like

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Speaker 1: to make people feel good. So it's like I think

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Speaker 1: now I do think on my social media, especially like

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Speaker 1: having been in Texas for five years, I can see

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Speaker 1: externally how I show up different now than than what

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Speaker 1: I did. I think the longer that I've you know,

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Speaker 1: been in this platform and been in this position, I

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Speaker 1: just be like I'm more aware of like the forces

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Speaker 1: at play, and so those have been it's been harder

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Speaker 1: for me to like access that joy sometimes on social

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Speaker 1: because I'm afraid of like being judged. And I think

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Speaker 1: only in the last like maybe a year of just

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Speaker 1: having been like through the fire, so many times, I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to access joy and I'm going to do

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Speaker 1: it in public, because that's what we're here to do.

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Speaker 1: And my whole mission when I first got into entertainment,

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Speaker 1: like it's always been spread self acceptance by modeling joy

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Speaker 1: and curiosity. That is what I'm here to do. And

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Speaker 1: so that's what I want to keep doing because I

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Speaker 1: really do think that's my mission and teach you how

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Speaker 1: to like do your hair.

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Speaker 2: Well, is that a dig at my hair? Because I've

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Speaker 2: been so nervous about my hair this whole conversation.

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Speaker 1: Naima, that is like the most craziest thing you said

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Speaker 1: this whole interview. Your hair looks amazing. I mean like

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Speaker 1: to our listener, you know, like not you your hair looks amazing.

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Speaker 1: That was like not a dig on your hair at all.

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Speaker 2: You'd appreciate this, Jonathan, that this is the white lotus

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Speaker 2: cunty little bobs.

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Speaker 1: I love your clb I love and I love your

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Speaker 1: side part. I love the side talk. And that was

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Speaker 1: like please, that was like so not to read on

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Speaker 1: your hair, but no, so yeah, So I feel like

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Speaker 1: I can see like how it's affected me, and I

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Speaker 1: have so much, like I have so much compassion for

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Speaker 1: myself because I just know how hard everything has been,

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Speaker 1: but not everybody knows how hard it's been. And it's

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Speaker 1: hard to figure out how to thread that needle of

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Speaker 1: like how much do you want to tell and how

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Speaker 1: much do you not talk about? And so that's like

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Speaker 1: a weird needle to thread because I think part of

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Speaker 1: my neurodivergence just wants to tell everybody everything, and that's

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Speaker 1: like not good some times sometimes you have to filter.

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Speaker 2: I think this is something that we your loving audience.

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Speaker 2: You know, you're loving public has observed in you, like

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Speaker 2: even in queer eye, you know which, we'll get to.

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Speaker 2: Your kind of role within the Fab five was a

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Speaker 2: lot of the emotional labor. It doesn't seem from the

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Speaker 2: outside that you know how to bring ten percent of

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Speaker 2: yourself to another person when they're really wanting and needing

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Speaker 2: to connect with you. Somehow you manage to center yourself

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Speaker 2: and bring one hundred percent of you. But that can

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Speaker 2: be exhausting, that can be that's very big work. How

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Speaker 2: do you replenish or reset or recalibrate after you've had

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Speaker 2: to or decided to share so much of yourself emotionally

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Speaker 2: and give so much of yourself emotionally.

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Speaker 1: Well. I think a part of it was, like I

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Speaker 1: when we went to Texas in season six, I just

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Speaker 1: stayed there, like I was so overwhelmed with fame and

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Speaker 1: with like the onslaught of attention, like from twenty eighteen

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Speaker 1: to twenty twenty that when we went to Austin to

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Speaker 1: shoot and then the world stopped, I was just like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, no one, I'm just kind of here

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Speaker 1: in the woods in the middle of nowhere. And that

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Speaker 1: felt really comforting and I just in the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years have been like, oh wow, this level of

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Speaker 1: travel of living between like Texas and going so many

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Speaker 1: places for stand up and going so many places for

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Speaker 1: jab and hair when so much of my work is

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Speaker 1: like no longer at home like it was when I

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Speaker 1: decided to move there. So long answer, what I do

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Speaker 1: to replenish is I had a lot of alone time,

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Speaker 1: and I need a lot of alone time with like

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Speaker 1: my pets and like my husband and myself to like

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Speaker 1: just chill and kind of come back to myself. So

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Speaker 1: that's kind of what I did. And now I think

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Speaker 1: I've found a good balance of figuring out my work

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Speaker 1: life balance so that like I can give everything I

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Speaker 1: need to give when I'm working, and I still have

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Speaker 1: enough time to be with myself and my family and

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Speaker 1: my friends. And so I feel like I've gotten to

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Speaker 1: like a much better place of balance. But it was

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Speaker 1: such a disorienting experience be like, I mean, I just

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Speaker 1: was I mean, I was like a hairdresser doing like

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Speaker 1: a web series and then all of a sudden, like

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Speaker 1: my life changed so fast and so hard and so

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Speaker 1: getting it used to that and then yeah, it's just

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Speaker 1: it was, it just was so much. And so that's

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Speaker 1: kind of what I mean when I say, like, I

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Speaker 1: just have so much compassion for myself because it's been

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Speaker 1: so like ten years ago, me would just be like, dang, girl.

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Speaker 1: That is when you said you wanted to like become

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Speaker 1: famous like after our Gay of Thrones, you really, you

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Speaker 1: really that was so much harder that I thought it

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Speaker 1: was going to be.

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Speaker 2: After the break, Jonathan opens up about the tumultuous years

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Speaker 2: during and after college when he found himself caught in

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Speaker 2: cycles of drug use and sex addiction.

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Speaker 3: Stay with us.

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Speaker 2: You were the first male cheerleader in your high school

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Speaker 2: who then got a scholarship, a cheerleading scholarship to the

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Speaker 2: University of Arizona, where you began your studies in political science.

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Speaker 2: You must have this interest in the way that our

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Speaker 2: political systems work and the way that our cultural systems

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Speaker 2: work that goes much farther back. Why tell me a

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Speaker 2: little bit about that interest.

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Speaker 1: I think that really comes back to, like growing up,

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Speaker 1: my mom sold advertising in our local newspaper, so like

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Speaker 1: she would bring me to work after school, and I

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Speaker 1: would like run around to like the newsroom, and I

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Speaker 1: would run around to like the reporters and I'd be like, what,

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Speaker 1: like this is like pre computer. So it was like

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Speaker 1: they'd take like rubber cement and like razor things to

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Speaker 1: like cut things out and like glue it like you know,

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Speaker 1: on the pages to take to the press. It was

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Speaker 1: like amazing. And so I just was really curious and

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Speaker 1: interested in the news and like the process of the

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Speaker 1: news from a really early age, and so much so

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Speaker 1: that in the Bill Clinton sex scandal of ninety eight,

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Speaker 1: I wrote a paper that was not even like a

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Speaker 1: school assignment, like we had these like we had this

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Speaker 1: assignment where we had to get these like blank books

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Speaker 1: and write like your life story basically, and there was

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Speaker 1: like prompts, you know, like everyone made it and it

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Speaker 1: was like for your parents. And I was like, Mom,

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Speaker 1: we have to find where those books came from. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to write a full detailed report on the Bill

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Speaker 1: Clinton sex scandal. I pulled my entire class. I did

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Speaker 1: like a whole survey of my class. I wrote this

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Speaker 1: whole thing like and I was a very moral, god fearing,

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Speaker 1: Jesus loving nine year old. I was very like or eleven, No,

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Speaker 1: I think I was eleven. I was very disappointed in

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00:22:48,159 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton's actions and behaviors, and I just I was

436
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,719
Speaker 1: a Ken Star apologist. I hate to say it, and

437
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,479
Speaker 1: so and I wrote this whole report and then when

438
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: I wrote Over the Top, I was like, And back

439
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 1: then when I wrote, I was like, I'm going to

440
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 1: get this published. I just know someone's going to want

441
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 1: to publish my like two hundred word with my survey

442
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,719
Speaker 1: from my sixth grade class, Like I just this is

443
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,400
Speaker 1: going to be like what breaks my career. And then

444
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 1: when we sent it to someone and they never said

445
00:23:12,919 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: anything back, I was like, oh my god, my career

446
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 1: is over. I'm so sad. And then it was just

447
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 1: very fun to get to like put that report that

448
00:23:19,679 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: I commissioned for myself in over the Top, So if

449
00:23:21,879 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: you get Over the Top, it's literally in there, like

450
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 1: I put it in there as like an aside. It's

451
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 1: like a palate cleanser, because there was a really sad

452
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: chapter and then I needed something like funny and light,

453
00:23:32,879 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: so I put that in there, which it just makes

454
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 1: me laugh so hard every time I read it. It's

455
00:23:37,639 --> 00:23:38,439
Speaker 1: so funny.

456
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:39,239
Speaker 3: I love that.

457
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 2: And what I love is that you didn't stick with

458
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 2: political science as a major. The world had other plans

459
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 2: for you. You had to kind of go through a big,

460
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 2: kind of crucible of becoming. When you got to college,

461
00:23:53,679 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 2: things did go a little bit pear shaped for you.

462
00:23:56,679 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 2: That's when your sex addiction, your drug addiction, some of

463
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 2: those impulsive, addictive behaviors really emerged. How do you think

464
00:24:05,919 --> 00:24:09,719
Speaker 2: about that time now? How do you share the story

465
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 2: of that time today?

466
00:24:11,879 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: You know, I don't. It's really one thing that I

467
00:24:14,879 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 1: feel like I could do better on. And I found

468
00:24:18,399 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 1: that after I wrote Over the Top, I was really

469
00:24:20,919 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 1: strong and brave in writing it, and it took so

470
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: much for me to write it, and then once it

471
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: came out and once I did the press for it,

472
00:24:27,919 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, that felt like putting

473
00:24:29,399 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 1: my soul in a blender and then like eating it

474
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 1: every day, And like soul flavored gushers are just not

475
00:24:36,399 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 1: what I want to eat, Like I want to eat

476
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: like not that every day, and so like regular gushers,

477
00:24:43,159 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 1: which I'm really going through a phase with right now,

478
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: I'm really into gushers right now. But I've done so

479
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 1: much work in therapy and with my therapist in EMDR

480
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 1: to be able to talk about a situation without becoming

481
00:24:55,399 --> 00:24:58,679
Speaker 1: the situation. And I think that one thing that I

482
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: want to do better on is really raising more awareness

483
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,719
Speaker 1: around the implication of this is like really political, but

484
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: raising more awareness around the implications of like defunding Planned

485
00:25:11,399 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 1: Parenthood in the United States and what that does to

486
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,239
Speaker 1: sexual health and what that does to people's ability to

487
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 1: get testing and treatment for sexual health, and just this

488
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: like HIV and STIs do not care if you are

489
00:25:23,879 --> 00:25:28,679
Speaker 1: a Evangelical Christian because Evangelical Christians are, as we all know,

490
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:30,959
Speaker 1: are doing the same thing that everybody else is doing.

491
00:25:31,919 --> 00:25:34,640
Speaker 1: And so I just think I really want to make

492
00:25:34,639 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: sure that other people are not because of that misinformation

493
00:25:38,639 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: and homophobia and transphobia and lack of care for queer people.

494
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: I really do believe in the eighties, if they had

495
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: taken HIV seriously, like when they first found it, like

496
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:50,919
Speaker 1: I don't even know if I would have ended up

497
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,039
Speaker 1: getting it or if the ripples are so big and

498
00:25:54,159 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: so huge in history because the most powerful nation in

499
00:25:57,879 --> 00:26:00,040
Speaker 1: the world at the time and still the United States,

500
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 1: like the President of the United States at the time,

501
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: Ronald Riggan, didn't say the word HIV until eighty seven,

502
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 1: after like thousands and thousands and thousands of people had

503
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: died and I just think that's one thing that people

504
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,239
Speaker 1: really don't like understand, is like the level of like

505
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: persecution and injustice that like queer people went through is

506
00:26:18,879 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: a result of the HIV crisis. It's it's so so pervasive,

507
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: and so I wish that I could, I want to

508
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: do a better job about making sure that like young

509
00:26:27,399 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 1: people know that because like we don't have like history

510
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: or sexual health is really not taught to us, even

511
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: in like high school. So it's like a lot of

512
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 1: people are like leaving school like not truly not understanding

513
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: the roots of their of their community. And that I

514
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 1: think is really important in tur because they mean, these

515
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: these young people I sound so old, but like young

516
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,759
Speaker 1: you know, they're voting, and they're voting for people that

517
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 1: you know, actively or dismantling the very safety net that

518
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: allows for people to make sure that they don't contract

519
00:26:55,919 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: HIV and that they and if they do contract an STI,

520
00:26:59,679 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: they will have a place to get treatment for it.

521
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 1: And and I think that's one thing that I wish

522
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: because like I didn't know that when I was that age,

523
00:27:07,879 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: and I always joke that, like when journalists asked me,

524
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: like what would you tell your younger self I'm always like,

525
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: don't do math, So I feel like between that, so

526
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: it's like that and then making sure that people really

527
00:27:20,639 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 1: understand what's important, and I really worry that people don't

528
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: understand like what's important at the right time.

529
00:27:30,879 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 2: I think that the way that you've chosen to share

530
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 2: your story so unvarnished, even when many people would be

531
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: tempted to paint maybe just one code of varnish on

532
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 2: you've always chosen radical honesty. I think, particularly because of

533
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 2: everything that you've just expressed so beautifully and eloquently, which

534
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 2: is that you don't want this to be about your story.

535
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 2: You want there to be benefit and growth and evolution

536
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 2: that comes from your experience. And it's interesting because I

537
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 2: even hesitated in thinking about talking to you about, you know,

538
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 2: your your time and experience with addiction, because I'm really

539
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 2: resistant to the idea that it has to be such

540
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,360
Speaker 2: a core part of your identity, especially when there has

541
00:28:13,399 --> 00:28:16,479
Speaker 2: been so much time and you've had so many so

542
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 2: much more life and so many more things to talk

543
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 2: about since that time in your life. But I think

544
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 2: what I come back to and why it was important

545
00:28:23,879 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 2: to me to talk to you about it today, is

546
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 2: because you also write about how contracting HIV in many

547
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 2: ways saved your life, And there's that paradox, isn't it

548
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 2: for people who might not know that part of your story?

549
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 2: How did contracting HIV save your life?

550
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: Because it was the when I contracted HIV, I was

551
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:51,719
Speaker 1: really a terrible relationship with math, and I was just

552
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: relapsing on math and using math. And for a lot

553
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: of people that have meth addiction are engaged in that

554
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: kind of like chem sex queer like culture. It is

555
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: so pervac and it is just everywhere you look. And

556
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: so I think that contracting HIV saved me because that

557
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: was the wake up call that got me to get

558
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,959
Speaker 1: away from meth. And I think that if I hadn't

559
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: gotten AHIV, I would have just kept relapsing and at

560
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: one point one of those would have killed me, Like

561
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,479
Speaker 1: I would have overdosed at some point. I mean, I

562
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: was like I was doing it all in all the ways.

563
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: And it's it's interesting because when I talk about it,

564
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,759
Speaker 1: I feel this need to be like I wasn't like

565
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,279
Speaker 1: doing it every day, and I wasn't, but there was

566
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: like a good bit there where like I just couldn't

567
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: get like because it's like once you dip your toe in.

568
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: It's really they're not kidding when they say if you

569
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,759
Speaker 1: do it once, like you will be addicted. Like I

570
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: literally did it once and then it took me like

571
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,999
Speaker 1: a few years to get to a place where like

572
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: I could like where I could never do it again.

573
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: And I mean I also quit smoking cigarettes. I think

574
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,959
Speaker 1: that meth was harder, and yeah, it really is. I

575
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,759
Speaker 1: learned more about it later and rehab, and it's like

576
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: it's like why we need more compassion for drug addicts

577
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: because if you, like hug, I'm gonna mess up these

578
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,239
Speaker 1: like levels I'm gonna say like millimeters, but it's not millimeters.

579
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: It's like, however you break like measure like the endorphins

580
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: in your brain and like the chemicals in your brain.

581
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: But it's like if you hug someone, it's like you

582
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: get like fifty of them. If you eat, like you're

583
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: like this comfort food, like your favorite thing from like

584
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: your mom, you know, like this is your favorite thing

585
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: from you're little. It's like two hundred. Sex is like

586
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: five hundred, cocaine is like seven hundred and fifty, and

587
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,239
Speaker 1: meth is like two thousand, five hundred. So it's like

588
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: from the time that someone does it once, it's like

589
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: your brain goes so high, it floods it with so

590
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: much good feelings that it's like it'll make it want

591
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: to go there again. And so that's like why kids

592
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: just do not do math. It's so not worth it.

593
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: It's like and either my rule of thumb is we

594
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,959
Speaker 1: just don't do drugs that make us go up, like

595
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: it's just not worth it. Like so my grandpa used

596
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: to say, nothing good happens after night, Nothing good happens

597
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: after you do blow or math, but like the worst

598
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: thing that will happen, Well, I don't we shouldn't talk. Australia.

599
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: I love your weed loss, but I'm just saying weed is.

600
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: I think weed and like alcohol are just so much

601
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: less dangerous than that than the math. But alcohol's really

602
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: bad too.

603
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 2: Actually, it's interesting how you describe those levels of kind

604
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 2: of like that brain stimulation, because you've also spoken about

605
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 2: how when you were really living in that place of

606
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: addiction and not just you know, drugs and sex, but

607
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 2: you write about this with your impulse shopping and so

608
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 2: many of those kind of other impulsive behaviors, and you

609
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 2: described it at one point as kind of trying to

610
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,239
Speaker 2: grab hold of the tail of the comet, which I

611
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 2: just loved that visual and that you knew you were

612
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 2: going to get this big dopamine hit, but that you

613
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: also knew that it wouldn't last. And I'm curious, now,

614
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 2: hot and healed, what's your dopamine supply that feels safer,

615
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,999
Speaker 2: steady year, less costly to yourself in that kind of

616
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 2: psycho spiritual way, where do you get that hit?

617
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: It's totally my My group fitness is really like such

618
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: a thing. So I had been because like I think

619
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: the thing that kind of stepped in for like drugs

620
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,999
Speaker 1: and sex, especially once I got queer, I was like

621
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: it was spending like because I was like, oh my god,

622
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,759
Speaker 1: I can like buy things I've never had before. And

623
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: I really there was this perfect storm of like COVID

624
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: and isolating and moving to Texas and then finding out

625
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: the Equinox like had a board member that was supporting

626
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:42,959
Speaker 1: the Trump campaigns. Then I stopped going there in like

627
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, had never been back since. So there's like

628
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: this perfect convergence of like me just not doing any

629
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: group fitness and for really like all my life, group

630
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,959
Speaker 1: fitness has been like a part of something that I

631
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: did even when I didn't know I was doing it,

632
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: Like cheer was group fitness, Gymnastics was group fitness, like

633
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: I did tennis, I did swimming, like I just had

634
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: always had like a group kind of working out activity.

635
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: And once I wasn't doing yoga, and once I wasn't

636
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: because I had this whole like yoga thing post college,

637
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: like into like when queer I happened, and I just

638
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: wasn't doing anything in group fitness anymore. And I and

639
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: I think, I thought, like I don't have time, I'm

640
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,519
Speaker 1: like building a business, I'm married. I just had like

641
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: it just became. And I also didn't want to get COVID,

642
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: But then I did get COVID like eighteen thousand times,

643
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: and then I was like still fine, And so then

644
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: I started my GLP one journey. And and to be honest,

645
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: I do think that GLP ones I do find that

646
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: they have made me less impulsive, not only with food

647
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: but like other things too, Like I do think that

648
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: like they will probably find that at some point because

649
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: like even with spending, which is like still my kind

650
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: of like kryptonite, like it has made me able to

651
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: like sit with impulses for like much longer to the

652
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: point where I'm like, Oh, I don't need that. I

653
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,799
Speaker 1: don't want that, And that's really weird because I'm like, who,

654
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: what was that voice? I've never had that before. But

655
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: my group fitness is just oh, let me finish that story.

656
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: My ADHD is so intense today. So when I did

657
00:34:10,240 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: might start my GLP one journey, and after like a

658
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: couple months, I was like just like walking in the

659
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 1: gym and like doing things in the gym by myself.

660
00:34:17,279 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: And then I was like, Oh, why don't you go

661
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,439
Speaker 1: back to pilates. You used to love plates. You haven't

662
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: been there in fifteen thousand years. But I was like

663
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,439
Speaker 1: such a lagree girl in my twenties, and so then

664
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 1: I like found this for former place. I went there,

665
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: and when I came home and I got in the

666
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: shower and like the water like hit my back. I

667
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: cried harder than I have like ever cried in my

668
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 1: literal whole life. And I was like, you, silly be

669
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 1: you forgot this part of yourself that was like this

670
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: really important part of yourself of like regulating your neurodivergence

671
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: and regulating like how you relate to the world, and

672
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 1: like you were getting up in mainlining reading just the

673
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: worst things about yourself on Twitter for four years, like

674
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: why are you not getting up and moving your body?

675
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:07,039
Speaker 1: You silly cow? And so then I was like, oh, yeah,

676
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: group fitness, like this is like when my brain feels

677
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: normal and normally the voice in my head is nice

678
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,760
Speaker 1: for myself. But it was just like, oh, duh, yeah

679
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: that I just cut this part off of myself like

680
00:35:18,279 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: a dead foot in COVID and just never looked back.

681
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 1: And that was just I was like, oh wow, that

682
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:25,519
Speaker 1: was like a huge part of myself to cut off.

683
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 1: And I've just i think since that day and like

684
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 1: January of last year, I think I've like not gone

685
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 1: to a group fitness class like ten times or something

686
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: like I'll take a Saturday off every once in a while.

687
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: But I just feel so good. It like regulates me

688
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 1: so much to be in a group of people that

689
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: just being treated the same as everyone else and doing

690
00:35:44,799 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: the same thing as everyone else. It is just so

691
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,280
Speaker 1: regulating to my nervous system and it has really really

692
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: helped me in such a profound way that I'm like

693
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: kind of surprised still, like how much it's helped me

694
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: feel better.

695
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 2: Coming up next Jonathan talks about the conversation with a

696
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 2: friend that helped them understand and embrace their non binary

697
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 2: identity back in a tick. You've been very openly honest

698
00:36:14,799 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 2: about coming out as a non binary person and spoken

699
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 2: so beautifully about not fitting into easy categories. Do you

700
00:36:23,759 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 2: remember when that language became the language that made you

701
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 2: feel at home in your body when you went right, Yes,

702
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 2: that's what makes sense to me.

703
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,439
Speaker 1: It was definitely a loak. It was definitely a loak,

704
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: like finding a loak on Instagram or maybe they told

705
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: me about it in person, but meeting a lookan becoming

706
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 1: friends with the loke, I think was the first time

707
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: where I was like, oh, yes, that's what this is.

708
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: So I always like take my hat off to a

709
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: locause I mean they really a locus, like my good

710
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 1: friend who's a comedian and a storyteller, and I always

711
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: say they're like the thought leader of our time, and

712
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: their Instagram and TikTok is amazing, and I just I

713
00:36:58,080 --> 00:36:59,919
Speaker 1: love them so much. But I think they were really

714
00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 1: the first person that where like they validated my gender

715
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 1: expression in a way where I was like, and didn't

716
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 1: even validate it, just showed me a possibility model that

717
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: mirrored how I've already felt my whole life.

718
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 2: And you've talked about that, You've talked about how you

719
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 2: know your energy is kind of all over the place,

720
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 2: and some days you feel more masculine and some days

721
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 2: you feel more feminine. What is kind of ultimate freedom

722
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 2: in your gender expression feel like to you?

723
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: These days, it feels like just exactly what I'm doing.

724
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: The only thing that gives me like intense gender dysphoria

725
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 1: is ties, like ties and suits, Like I just want

726
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: to rip it off my body. I'm like Carrie with

727
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,399
Speaker 1: insects and City with the dress, Like it really makes

728
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: me so like a suit and tie. Even now just

729
00:37:51,759 --> 00:37:54,439
Speaker 1: talking about it, I like like I want to run

730
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,399
Speaker 1: away from you just talking about it, like.

731
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 2: I actually can't even I'm having a hard time even

732
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 2: visualizing you in a suit and tie.

733
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 3: It doesn't feel right.

734
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like I would only do it for like Halloween,

735
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: if I was going to be like some person in

736
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: a suit. But other than that, I feel like I

737
00:38:09,759 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: really am kind of living my freedom of my gender expression.

738
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 1: It's like, and I think one thing that like it's

739
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: caught up if you didn't even ask this, but I

740
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:18,479
Speaker 1: love it. I'm going to talk about it. I think

741
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: for any queer person that's spoken out for trans inclusion

742
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: in sports or trans people's access to healthcare, it's like

743
00:38:27,799 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: you're painted is someone who's like trying to like prey

744
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: on children or change children's like gender expression. And my

745
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: whole thing around this persecution of trans people that we've

746
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: seen like across the world, it's that. And it's my

747
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: same thing with reproductive rights. It's about medical privacy. Any

748
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: person should be able to have like bodily autonomy on them,

749
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 1: like over their bodies, to like make the health care

750
00:38:50,279 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: decisions that they need to make, whether that relates to

751
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 1: gender expression or it relates to like having a baby.

752
00:38:55,799 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 1: And I just think that for governments to be telling

753
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: people that they know better of what they should do

754
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: with their bodies than the person does, is the true

755
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: really the most like Unamerican thing that you could do,

756
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: like for the Land of the Free and the home

757
00:39:08,759 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: of the brave. And we are like telling like forcing

758
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: women into birth in this country and telling parents that

759
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: if they have a child who has gender dysphoria, like

760
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,999
Speaker 1: legitimate gender dysphoria. And I'm not saying that like every

761
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 1: kid who has questions around gender should be getting surgery.

762
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: But I'm saying that for the rare cases where some

763
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: kids do have extreme gender dysphoria, it can be life

764
00:39:30,799 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 1: saving treatment and a lot of times and most of

765
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: the time it's not surgery. So there's just there's so

766
00:39:35,279 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: much misinformation. But my whole thing always just comes down to,

767
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 1: like privacy. We should be able to have privacy around

768
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 1: our medical decisions, and the fact that that has been

769
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: taken away from twenty two million women in this country.

770
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 1: I think, or in the United States, is like crazy

771
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: that that's not what we're talking about like all the time.

772
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 2: I think it's so interesting, and again this is something

773
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 2: to have heard you speak about extensively, but broadly speaking,

774
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 2: it does feel like, even if you think about the

775
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 2: kind of height of queer eye, that it feels like

776
00:40:02,759 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 2: as a culture, we were kind of we were progressing,

777
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 2: we were evolving, we were normalizing to the point of

778
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 2: not having to be constantly even unpacking it the diversity

779
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 2: of gender expression in humanity. Does it feel like we

780
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 2: are backsliding?

781
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 3: To you, what is it like for you.

782
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 2: In America in this political moment. What's happening for you

783
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 2: and your community.

784
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's awful. I mean, we've had so the Supreme

785
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: Court just held that states' rights are supreme in terms

786
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: of like a state can say that you cannot have

787
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: gender refirming care up to the age of eighteen. Some

788
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: have proposed laws that will go up to twenty six,

789
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: but the Supreme Court has I forget the name of

790
00:40:44,799 --> 00:40:48,039
Speaker 1: the case, but it has it sided with the state

791
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 1: and with Tennessee. So Tennessee's law that says that you

792
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,760
Speaker 1: cannot get gender firming care until you're eighteen years old stands.

793
00:40:54,799 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 1: They're saying it's constitutional, and so they have essentially said

794
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: that it's parental rights for evangelicals and for Christians, but

795
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: not parents' rights for the parents trans of trans young people.

796
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,919
Speaker 1: And the fact is is that you know, miners get

797
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 1: elective surgery all the time, like miners get nose jobs.

798
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: Miners get all sorts of augmentations, placid surgeries, tweaks, they

799
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,240
Speaker 1: get shoulder surgeries, they get knee surgeries like high school athletes.

800
00:41:22,279 --> 00:41:24,760
Speaker 1: I mean, young people do get surgery. That is a fact.

801
00:41:24,799 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: And so I think the lawyer that argued this case,

802
00:41:27,759 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: who's a friend of mine, who I think is so incredible,

803
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 1: his name is Chase Strangio, and he was the first

804
00:41:32,759 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 1: openly trans lawyer to argue a case at the Supreme Court.

805
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: He's just saying, like, why is it that cys gender

806
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 1: young people are able to get these surgeries, Like, so

807
00:41:41,799 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 1: you know, a young sixteen year old boy who has

808
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 1: guino clemastia can go get guino clemastia removed, which is

809
00:41:47,799 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: gender affirming surgery, But a sixteen year old trans girl

810
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: can't get a breast augmentation. But we have sixteen year

811
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: old women getting breast augmentations with parental consent, So why

812
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 1: can't trans people do that? So that's that's what the

813
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: case is there, and whether or not someone's going to

814
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: have surgical or regret. I just don't think is society's

815
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: place to enforce that. It's an individual's freedom to do

816
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 1: with their body what they want, and I think we

817
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: should all have that freedom. And to be denied the

818
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 1: freedom to do with your body as long as you're

819
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: not hurting someone else, I think is really like just

820
00:42:22,759 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: so scary, especially when it comes to reproductive healthcare.

821
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 2: When it comes to kind of your political voice and

822
00:42:29,759 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 2: staying in the political fray. You've said that you want

823
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 2: to be so compassionate that you can talk to a

824
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 2: rabid Republican Q and honor and make them change their mind.

825
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 2: I want to know whether you've actually ever accomplished that

826
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,479
Speaker 2: and if you still feel that way.

827
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 1: I do feel like that, but actually I did do it.

828
00:42:49,759 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: I mean that nice man in Queer I season nine

829
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,879
Speaker 1: that I said like the crop failure thing too. I

830
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: always he had what was his name? He had such

831
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: a funny like dealer name that I forget. Anyway, he

832
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: was like a very like very ardent Trump's I wasn't

833
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,879
Speaker 1: able to change his mind. I only had like a

834
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: few hours with him, but I would have needed like

835
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:15,919
Speaker 1: three months at least. But I think my compassion is

836
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: is it's definitely a one. I think I've maybe changed

837
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: some mag of people's minds online maybe, But I do

838
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: have the compassion and I do still feel like that

839
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: because I do think that people that are supporting and

840
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 1: are actively supporting Trump's agenda now, I do think that

841
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: they've been exposed to really intense misinformation around undocumented immigrants,

842
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: around trans people, around around women, around abortion, around so

843
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 1: many things. You know, the fact that we have so

844
00:43:44,799 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: many people that think that it's snap benefits that are

845
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 1: draining the economy, and not the fact that we've like

846
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:54,399
Speaker 1: given eleven billion dollars of like tax subsidies to Elon Musk.

847
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,760
Speaker 1: It's like, it's definitely the billionaires. It's definitely not people

848
00:43:57,799 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: on snap benefits.

849
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 2: And as we've kind of discussed, when you choose to

850
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 2: be a public person and choose to try to use

851
00:44:05,759 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 2: that public platform to be a force for good, that's

852
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,879
Speaker 2: big work. It can be exhausting and taxing work. And

853
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 2: I can only imagine that one of the ways beyond

854
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 2: group fitness, that you've also really refill that cup and

855
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 2: kind of keep your yourself safe and keep that battery

856
00:44:23,279 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 2: charged is with your beautiful husband, Mark, who I got

857
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,280
Speaker 2: to meet for like twenty seconds when he was setting

858
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 2: up your microphone. There you got pandemic married. You've been

859
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 2: married for five years now. Congratulations, Thank you. How did

860
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 2: you know Mark is the one?

861
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: I just I don't know. I just did and it

862
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: felt like it was the right time, and so we

863
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 1: did and it was. I'm just so proud of our

864
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 1: relationship because neither of us have ever been in a

865
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: relationship this long, and we've navigated so much like difficult stuff,

866
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: and we've just it's everything's only ever brought us closer.

867
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: So I'm really just so proud of us.

868
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 2: And your animal family has been a really big part

869
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,800
Speaker 2: of your life. Yourself is an animal parent, has always

870
00:45:10,799 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 2: been a really big part of who you are. I

871
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 2: can relate to that a lot. I've got my little

872
00:45:13,799 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 2: dog next to me right here, and so who are

873
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 2: your animal family at the moment?

874
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: We have an age order. We have Larry, Eliza, Mean, Nellie, Matilda, Genevieve, Elton, Baggy, Rose, George.

875
00:45:29,279 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 3: And these are dogs, cats and chickens.

876
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 1: No, those are all just the cats and dogs are dogs. Yeah,

877
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: we do still have chickens. A few of them have

878
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 1: like passed away, and those were really like more of

879
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: like Marx Department than my department. So I don't know

880
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 1: who's like currently still like laying the eggs back there.

881
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's good I didn't quiz you on the

882
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 2: name and age of all of your chickens.

883
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,240
Speaker 1: Yeah I would have. Yeah, I'm not that's more Mars department.

884
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: I don't. I get scared to go down there, but

885
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: I do eat the eggs.

886
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, no, fair enough.

887
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,280
Speaker 2: You know, with how you are and how many different

888
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 2: projects you have going on at any given time. I'm

889
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 2: curious to know what home mode really feels like when

890
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 2: it's you and Mark and your fifty eleven pets. What's

891
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,359
Speaker 2: the rhythm of your day, what's the rhythm of your life?

892
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 1: Well, we love Fortnite. We're like big gamers, so we

893
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: My favorite thing would be wake up, go to Pilate's,

894
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 1: come home, take the dogs to the dog park, like,

895
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: make breakfast, like on a day off, make breakfast, go upstairs,

896
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: play Fortnite for like three hours, come downstairs, put stuff away,

897
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,359
Speaker 1: then get ready, then go meet our friends to do

898
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: something cute, like at brunch or something, or like a

899
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:51,879
Speaker 1: like a like a I do. I just love an

900
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 1: early dinner on a day off so that I can

901
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: come back home and play Fortnite from like six to

902
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:00,519
Speaker 1: like ten, and then I'll watch like realistically, like four

903
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: minutes of bake Off before I fall asleep at like

904
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: ten oh.

905
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,439
Speaker 3: Four, Like a perfect day.

906
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 2: I also never in a million years would have guessed

907
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 2: that you were a Fortnite gamer.

908
00:47:12,279 --> 00:47:12,919
Speaker 3: And I love this.

909
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: Oh, I love Fornite. I have a whole set, I

910
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: have a whole bit and hot and healed about gaming

911
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: and about the ways in which I'm gaming has allowed

912
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: me to heal and find and connect more healthily to

913
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 1: some of my anger.

914
00:47:26,799 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 2: Which is a perfect segue because in these remaining minutes

915
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 2: that I have with you, and you've been so generous

916
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 2: with your time, Jonathan, Hot and healed, Hot and healed, baby,

917
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:41,359
Speaker 2: coming down under. You'll be here next year. What can

918
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 2: we expect from this show? Where did this work and

919
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 2: this creation come from in you? What are you bringing

920
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 2: to the stage? Why do we all need to be there?

921
00:47:49,759 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: So in twenty twenty four, I was used in a

922
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 1: pro Trump campaign ad that they spent like two hundred

923
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: and twenty million dollars on that has this clip of

924
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 1: me meeting Kamala Harris and the voiceover says She's for

925
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: they them, and Trump's for you. And so that was

926
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: a very I just could in twenty twenty four, I

927
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:15,439
Speaker 1: just could not catch a break. Okay, the only break

928
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: that I caught was that we won gold back in

929
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 1: the women's team gymnastics. But other than that, like, it

930
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: was just a rough year. And so really all of

931
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 1: this set is born out of the election fallout what

932
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: I learned in twenty twenty four, and it's about healing

933
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: through that and kind of what I think that we

934
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 1: need to do as a society to heal together. And

935
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 1: then it's also been and it's also about my healing journey,

936
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,319
Speaker 1: Like I looked totally different than I did when I

937
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 1: first started this tour and that it was a total accident.

938
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,280
Speaker 1: And it was also because I was healing from impulse

939
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 1: spending because I couldn't keep impulse spending bigger clothes, so

940
00:48:53,799 --> 00:48:55,280
Speaker 1: I had to figure out to fit in my old clothes,

941
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,240
Speaker 1: which is like why I really got on GLP ones.

942
00:48:57,759 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 1: So I'm just kind of going over all of that

943
00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 1: and all of the election fallout and really what I

944
00:49:02,759 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: think we need to do to heal pasts, Like really

945
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: what this this set is like dealing with. It's like

946
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 1: it's giving a lot of gender. I'm also getting into

947
00:49:12,799 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 1: like like talking to like white people in like a

948
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 1: new fun way and a way that I have it before,

949
00:49:17,799 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 1: where I'm just trying to like cause I know we

950
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 1: can be better. I know we got this. It's very

951
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 1: cheerleader base, but it's also like just fun and I

952
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 1: think it's it's the most like clever and I think

953
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: political comedy that I've ever done, and it's the most

954
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 1: I think really being connected to our speech is so

955
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 1: important right now, and so healing is really in the

956
00:49:35,799 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: center of it. But I've had a really unique experience

957
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: being featured on this campaign ad and having the chance

958
00:49:41,759 --> 00:49:44,439
Speaker 1: to meet Vice President former Vice presid Kamala Harris last year,

959
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 1: and so it's really kind of just breaking down what

960
00:49:47,799 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: I went through in twenty twenty four and how I've

961
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: healed from it, and what I think we can all

962
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,039
Speaker 1: do to kind of come together better. But it really

963
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:56,839
Speaker 1: is a fun show. And I would also say Australia

964
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: inspired me so much. And when I came down the

965
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: last time to do Fun and Slutty that it it

966
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 1: got a whole well or or was it Road to

967
00:50:06,799 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: Beijing or was it No, it was a MAJORI living

968
00:50:09,759 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: room Olympian the last time I did Australia, it was

969
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 1: imaginary living room Olympian. And when I came to do that,

970
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: I did this bit that bombed in Sydney and I said,

971
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm HIV positive. This was my second pandemic,

972
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 1: and no one in this auditorium laughed, like no one

973
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: laughed and because I just they didn't have permission yet

974
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 1: to laugh. Like I just think that I just I

975
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't I think my build up to

976
00:50:34,279 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 1: the joke was like wrong, I just had not practiced

977
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 1: it enough. So then I was like, oh, I'm sorry,

978
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,720
Speaker 1: I did you know what I'd stand me? OHI sage,

979
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: ii'm hei CHOI V positive. This is my second pandemic.

980
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 1: And then I literally let everyone a chant where I

981
00:50:52,279 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: was like, say it wins may give me a hih

982
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 1: And then I was like hih and I was like,

983
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: give me an oi oi and I was like, give

984
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: me a may. What's this spell? And then we literally

985
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: chanted HIV and then I was like, you guys, was

986
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 1: with you? Why are we chanting HIV? So I totally

987
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: made it funny and we made it work. But I

988
00:51:09,759 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: ended up taking that experience and I worked that into

989
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 1: the show and so for the rest of my tour

990
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:17,879
Speaker 1: after that, I did a call and repete of like

991
00:51:18,279 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 1: hate choive heighte CHOI ve like in an Australian accent,

992
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,359
Speaker 1: yes with the h and even so much so that

993
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 1: in my first special that came out last year, Fun

994
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:29,359
Speaker 1: and Sluttie, I like tell that story and it's it's like,

995
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: so in this set will be more polished for you guys.

996
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 3: So we've played our little part as Australian.

997
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 1: It was a big part. I love a big part,

998
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:40,959
Speaker 1: and I'm so excited to come back.

999
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 2: Oh, we're so excited to have you. You're such a

1000
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 2: deeply funny person. You are a great comedian, and I

1001
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 2: think it's because almost to exactly the story you just shared.

1002
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,999
Speaker 2: You know, your comedy is rooted in compassion, it's rooted

1003
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 2: in lived experience, it's rooted in a real desire to

1004
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 2: help people move, even if it's just incremental, you know,

1005
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:07,240
Speaker 2: one more inch towards loving themselves more. I think really

1006
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 2: is where you begin and where your work really begins.

1007
00:52:11,759 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 2: So we're very excited to have you. It's remarkable to me.

1008
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 2: You know, we covered a lot of ground and a

1009
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 2: lot of quick pivots in this conversation because at only

1010
00:52:20,799 --> 00:52:23,240
Speaker 2: thirty eight, which is crazy, because you've.

1011
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 3: Lived so much life.

1012
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 2: I just find your story so full, so astonishing, and

1013
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 2: I'm so excited for the next chapters, the next books,

1014
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 2: the next poor all of it me too.

1015
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:36,399
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for your time. This has been

1016
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 3: such a joy.

1017
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me.

1018
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 3: Friends.

1019
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 2: That was Jonathan van Ness, and I'm so grateful for

1020
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 2: how open and generous they were in this conversation. Jonathan

1021
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 2: has lived through things that would have broken many people,

1022
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 2: and yet they've found a way to turn their pain

1023
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 2: into purpose, humor, joy and connection. Speaking with them as

1024
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:00,759
Speaker 2: a reminder that recovery isn't linear, identity isn't fixed, and

1025
00:53:00,799 --> 00:53:02,839
Speaker 2: healing can be as complex.

1026
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 3: As it is beautiful.

1027
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 2: And if you want to experience Jonathan in person, and

1028
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 2: why wouldn't you? Their Hot and Healed tour kicks off

1029
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 2: in Brisbane on the twenty fifth of February and then

1030
00:53:12,799 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 2: travels all around Australia. For tickets and all the details,

1031
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 2: check the show notes. The executive producer of No Filter

1032
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 2: is myself Naima Brown, The senior producers pre player audio

1033
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 2: editing by Tina Matalov with video editing by Josh green

1034
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 2: I guest hosted today's episode, but you'll be excited to

1035
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 2: know that Kate Lankerbrook will be back next Monday with

1036
00:53:34,279 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 2: an all new episode of No Filter.

1037
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 1: Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and

1038
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 1: waters that this podcast is recorded on