1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,809 Speaker 1: From Mamma Mia, Hi, I'm Claire Murphy, Welcome to the quickie. 2 00:00:04,809 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: Getting you up to speed daily. 3 00:00:08,340 --> 00:00:11,059 Speaker 1: Are you working from home? Are you also picking up 4 00:00:11,060 --> 00:00:13,590 Speaker 1: more of the at home duties while you're at it? 5 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: If you are, you're not alone this week. For me, 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,860 Speaker 1: each day has ended with tears, a pounding headache and 7 00:00:21,860 --> 00:00:25,829 Speaker 1: a deep, deep yearning for time, physical space and mental 8 00:00:25,829 --> 00:00:26,950 Speaker 1: space of my own. 9 00:00:27,540 --> 00:00:30,770 Speaker 1: Today we're delving back into the mental load debate, with 10 00:00:30,770 --> 00:00:34,150 Speaker 1: many saying the covid 19 Corona virus crisis has made 11 00:00:34,150 --> 00:00:37,550 Speaker 1: them realize more than ever, they're still considered less important 12 00:00:37,550 --> 00:00:38,450 Speaker 1: in the workplace. 13 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,490 Speaker 1: Some people have found this time of self isolation and 14 00:00:43,490 --> 00:00:46,770 Speaker 1: working from home, a relief from the daily grind of commuting, 15 00:00:46,850 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: attending meetings and the social pressures that come with face 16 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:50,849 Speaker 1: to face interaction . 17 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,390 Speaker 1: But for a group of people, self isolation and social 18 00:00:54,390 --> 00:00:57,370 Speaker 1: distancing hasn't been a break from the real world pressures 19 00:00:57,370 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 1: at all, and it certainly hasn't meant endless time in 20 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,370 Speaker 1: their own company. The things I'm finding hardest about covid 21 00:01:03,670 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: is really the lack of face to face connection. Not 22 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,130 Speaker 1: being able to hand my baby over to her grandparents 23 00:01:10,130 --> 00:01:12,770 Speaker 1: or drop her off at the creche at the pool. 24 00:01:13,010 --> 00:01:18,010 Speaker 1: I'm just really missing that social connection with people. There's 25 00:01:18,010 --> 00:01:21,930 Speaker 1: not really any off time for me. It's just constantly 26 00:01:21,930 --> 00:01:24,770 Speaker 1: switching roles throughout the day. We've talked about mental load 27 00:01:24,770 --> 00:01:27,420 Speaker 1: on the quickie before the endless list of things that 28 00:01:27,420 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: women do every day to keep life running while oblivious 29 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: partners go about their daily lives, happy in the knowledge 30 00:01:33,650 --> 00:01:37,069 Speaker 1: that everything will just get done and here in isolation 31 00:01:37,290 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: that has been amplified. Sometimes I do resent my husband 32 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,890 Speaker 1: for being able to step out on go to work, 33 00:01:42,890 --> 00:01:46,090 Speaker 1: to perform his work, whereas I'm very lucky, and I 34 00:01:46,090 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: get to also educate three Children whilst trying to work 35 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: and train for the Paralympics. I think the problem is 36 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:56,190 Speaker 1: that women were mostly the part time workers before covid , that means 37 00:01:56,190 --> 00:01:59,770 Speaker 1: that while partners got to work normal, full time jobs, 38 00:02:00,290 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: many of us just crammed our jobs around the edges of our lives. 39 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,090 Speaker 1: So now we're doing the admin , but we're also home 40 00:02:07,090 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: schooling and then squeezing work into the parts of the 41 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:15,209 Speaker 1: day that are left. For me t hat's early m orning and late at night . I'm 42 00:02:15,210 --> 00:02:18,410 Speaker 1: sleep deprived, and I feel like nothing is getting the 43 00:02:18,410 --> 00:02:22,190 Speaker 1: attention it deserves. With state governments encouraging parents to keep 44 00:02:22,190 --> 00:02:25,510 Speaker 1: their Children home from school, many working from home parents 45 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,340 Speaker 1: are also home schooling. And while in a lot of 46 00:02:28,340 --> 00:02:31,710 Speaker 1: cases both parents are at home, the likelihood is that 47 00:02:31,710 --> 00:02:34,889 Speaker 1: the domestic work in a heterosexual couple will still be 48 00:02:34,889 --> 00:02:37,450 Speaker 1: left squarely in The woman of the houses' court. 49 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,260 Speaker 1: So while women are normally doing, this is part of 50 00:02:40,260 --> 00:02:43,090 Speaker 1: what's referred to as the second shift coming home from 51 00:02:43,090 --> 00:02:46,290 Speaker 1: work only to start the work at home in 2020. 52 00:02:46,290 --> 00:02:50,260 Speaker 1: During the covert 19 pandemic, she has started working three 53 00:02:50,260 --> 00:02:54,570 Speaker 1: jobs simultaneously, her paying job, her duties as a housekeeper 54 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,450 Speaker 1: and her role teaching her Children. That is, if she 55 00:02:57,450 --> 00:02:59,820 Speaker 1: hasn't had to sacrifice her paying job to stay at 56 00:02:59,820 --> 00:03:00,850 Speaker 1: home with the kids. 57 00:03:01,540 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: Professor Kim Rubinstein is a fellow of the Australian Academy 58 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: of the Law and a fellow of the Academy of 59 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 1: Social Sciences. She's also the co director of the 50 60 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,150 Speaker 1: 50 by 2030 foundation at the Faculty of Business, Government 61 00:03:14,150 --> 00:03:18,430 Speaker 1: and Law at the University of Canberra Professor. Recent bureau 62 00:03:18,430 --> 00:03:21,620 Speaker 1: of statistics data shows that more women have lost their jobs 63 00:03:21,620 --> 00:03:25,139 Speaker 1: and men during this crisis. Why is that why women's 64 00:03:25,139 --> 00:03:28,090 Speaker 1: roles still more expendable than a man's? I 65 00:03:28,090 --> 00:03:31,380 Speaker 2: think that there are multiple reasons Claire. I think one 66 00:03:31,380 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 2: is the reality off the type of work that they're 67 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 2: doing in the sense of the casual nature of work, 68 00:03:37,530 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 2: and that there is such a significant proportion of the 69 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,650 Speaker 2: casual workforce that has been made up of women. Now 70 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:49,460 Speaker 2: there are so many structural and economic factors and societal 71 00:03:49,460 --> 00:03:52,150 Speaker 2: factors that have led to women being more likely to 72 00:03:52,150 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 2: be doing that casual work. One is in relation to 73 00:03:55,810 --> 00:04:00,170 Speaker 2: the lower pay associated with that work and expectations in society. 74 00:04:00,470 --> 00:04:04,810 Speaker 2: both that have been imbued in women in the work that they are either thinking or 75 00:04:04,820 --> 00:04:10,010 Speaker 2: have a trajectory towards or in relation to the caring 76 00:04:10,020 --> 00:04:13,410 Speaker 2: nature of often the work that those women have been doing. 77 00:04:13,410 --> 00:04:17,350 Speaker 2: So there is that aspect to it that the casual workforce, 78 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,070 Speaker 2: the other which I think is really interesting, is in 79 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:25,580 Speaker 2: family scenarios where kids are needing to be cared for more 80 00:04:25,580 --> 00:04:28,190 Speaker 2: during the day by virtue of school closed down its that 81 00:04:28,190 --> 00:04:30,890 Speaker 2: there has to be some discussion with the home of 82 00:04:30,890 --> 00:04:34,180 Speaker 2: who is going to be responsible for managing the kids 83 00:04:34,190 --> 00:04:36,860 Speaker 2: while we're working at home. And some women are being 84 00:04:36,860 --> 00:04:39,620 Speaker 2: forced to make that decision in that family scenario that 85 00:04:39,620 --> 00:04:42,460 Speaker 2: if theirs is a lesser income, then they're the ones 86 00:04:42,460 --> 00:04:44,590 Speaker 2: that are going to be sacrificed, so to speak, for 87 00:04:44,589 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 2: the sake of the family being able to manage a 88 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,500 Speaker 2: period like that. So they're just a couple of reasons 89 00:04:49,500 --> 00:04:53,430 Speaker 2: that I think really touch upon much broader quality issues 90 00:04:53,430 --> 00:04:54,750 Speaker 2: in society today, 91 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: always still in, amongst all that, relying on traditional ideas 92 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: of who should stay at home to look after Children 93 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:03,250 Speaker 1: during times like this. 94 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 2: I think there is no doubt that that has such 95 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 2: a major influence on both men and women in the 96 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 2: way care is managed in society, the traditional what many 97 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,460 Speaker 2: people are talking about at the moment 19 50's style 98 00:05:17,460 --> 00:05:22,430 Speaker 2: concept of the woman being ultimately responsible for the caring roles. 99 00:05:22,430 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 2: And we know just numerically and disproportionately women bear that load 100 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,140 Speaker 2: so much greater than men. But what is interesting I 101 00:05:30,140 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 2: think Claire, is that that has been an underlying norm 102 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,700 Speaker 2: that has influenced and made it difficult for women to 103 00:05:36,700 --> 00:05:39,239 Speaker 2: take on a more equal role in an area that 104 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,409 Speaker 2: I call active citizenship, of being significant and real contributors to 105 00:05:43,410 --> 00:05:47,430 Speaker 2: the public sphere not only from the suffrage movement of voting, 106 00:05:47,430 --> 00:05:50,750 Speaker 2: but in terms of actually taking on leadership roles. And 107 00:05:50,750 --> 00:05:53,340 Speaker 2: I think part of the problem is that even when 108 00:05:53,339 --> 00:05:56,190 Speaker 2: women do take on those roles, there is still an 109 00:05:56,190 --> 00:06:00,170 Speaker 2: expectation that they are also responsible for the caring and 110 00:06:00,170 --> 00:06:02,779 Speaker 2: how difficult that is. And so perhaps one of the 111 00:06:02,779 --> 00:06:05,450 Speaker 2: silver linings Claire of this is that we are forcing 112 00:06:05,450 --> 00:06:09,450 Speaker 2: a greater concentration and discussion on how we can get 113 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,140 Speaker 2: men more involved in those areas that have been traditionally 114 00:06:13,140 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 2: expected to be the women's roles in a way to 115 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,450 Speaker 2: truly make a more equal society? 116 00:06:18,140 --> 00:06:20,930 Speaker 1: It's interesting you brought that up because we have seen 117 00:06:20,930 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: some very differing leadership styles across the globe during this crisis, 118 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: from both men and women. And there's been a lot 119 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,179 Speaker 1: of talk about how countries led by women have fared 120 00:06:30,180 --> 00:06:33,849 Speaker 1: fairly well during this. But if you just look at 121 00:06:33,850 --> 00:06:35,650 Speaker 1: Australia and New Zealand alone, 122 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,370 Speaker 1: we look it Jacinda Ardern who has famously you know, put 123 00:06:40,370 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: a child to bed and done a Facebook Live and 124 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,540 Speaker 1: Scott Morrison, who's done every address from behind the podium, 125 00:06:46,540 --> 00:06:49,470 Speaker 1: no mention really off his family unless it's to do 126 00:06:49,470 --> 00:06:52,300 Speaker 1: with the actual schools issue because his Children are still 127 00:06:52,300 --> 00:06:55,870 Speaker 1: in school. Yes, there is definitely a very different idea that, 128 00:06:55,870 --> 00:06:58,610 Speaker 1: and even just in the Arden seems to be carrying 129 00:06:58,610 --> 00:07:00,750 Speaker 1: a bit of the mental loads during this. 130 00:07:01,339 --> 00:07:03,729 Speaker 2: Yes, look, I think one commentator hit it on the 131 00:07:03,730 --> 00:07:06,430 Speaker 2: head when they said It's not just that there is 132 00:07:06,430 --> 00:07:10,470 Speaker 2: something inately , stronger and better about women in times 133 00:07:10,470 --> 00:07:14,150 Speaker 2: of crisis to lead. It's about the diversity of expressions 134 00:07:14,150 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 2: of leadership and that these women are not following the 135 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:22,210 Speaker 2: more traditional representations of leadership. As you said, the suited male, 136 00:07:22,210 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 2: I mean, I have an image in my head of 137 00:07:24,530 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 2: the four white males standing to talk to the nation. 138 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,590 Speaker 2: You know Scott Morrison as Prime Minister, Greg Hunt the Health 139 00:07:31,590 --> 00:07:35,700 Speaker 2: Minister Josh Frydenberg the Treasurer, Brendan Murphy, is the chief medical 140 00:07:35,710 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 2: officer now it's not that they're not able to do 141 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,410 Speaker 2: these jobs well but you were just seeing four white 142 00:07:41,410 --> 00:07:44,350 Speaker 2: men being responsible for the nation when there are so 143 00:07:44,350 --> 00:07:47,700 Speaker 2: many other people, whether it be men from completely different 144 00:07:47,700 --> 00:07:51,750 Speaker 2: life experiences and, of course, women with their different life experiences, 145 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,330 Speaker 2: informing the way we respond to something like this or 146 00:07:55,330 --> 00:07:57,830 Speaker 2: leading at a time like this or indeed leading in 147 00:07:57,830 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 2: any time. And I think it's the fact that if you can 148 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,060 Speaker 2: see someone like Jacinda Ardern putting her child to bed and 149 00:08:04,060 --> 00:08:06,330 Speaker 2: we see her husband as part of the picture. It's 150 00:08:06,330 --> 00:08:08,540 Speaker 2: not that she's a single mother putting her child to bed. 151 00:08:08,740 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 2: We know that she's been involved in the putting to bed 152 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,910 Speaker 2: of that child, and that there is a partner in 153 00:08:13,910 --> 00:08:17,050 Speaker 2: that scenario. Is taking responsibility as well with her that 154 00:08:17,050 --> 00:08:20,530 Speaker 2: there is some arrangement between them where she is able 155 00:08:20,530 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 2: to be in a leadership role and be a mother 156 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,030 Speaker 2: at the same time. We need to see more of 157 00:08:26,030 --> 00:08:30,220 Speaker 2: that both in terms of better leadership, which these scenarios 158 00:08:30,220 --> 00:08:33,550 Speaker 2: air showing but also from a citizenship point of view of 159 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,910 Speaker 2: young girls looking at Jacinda Ardern thinking, Yes, I can have 160 00:08:36,910 --> 00:08:39,719 Speaker 2: a baby and also be the prime minister. It's not 161 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,780 Speaker 2: that they're just incompatible that you couldn't do both things. 162 00:08:42,780 --> 00:08:45,610 Speaker 2: The reality is you can if there are structures and 163 00:08:45,610 --> 00:08:48,179 Speaker 2: frameworks in place, that, accept that women have a role 164 00:08:48,179 --> 00:08:51,590 Speaker 2: in leadership as well as being involved family members and 165 00:08:51,590 --> 00:08:54,810 Speaker 2: having others involved as well, including their partners. 166 00:08:54,940 --> 00:08:57,839 Speaker 1: Can we bring it back down to this particular crisis 167 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,700 Speaker 1: and people who are currently working from home? For those 168 00:09:00,700 --> 00:09:04,579 Speaker 1: who are, many say anecdotal evidence is that women in 169 00:09:04,580 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: particular have had to work around their Children and their Children's 170 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,809 Speaker 1: needs or the domestic needs while their male partner continues 171 00:09:11,809 --> 00:09:15,890 Speaker 1: working on uninterrupted. Do we still think that men's jobs 172 00:09:15,890 --> 00:09:17,150 Speaker 1: are more important, 173 00:09:18,110 --> 00:09:21,690 Speaker 2: in a way we've managed and society has accepted and 174 00:09:21,690 --> 00:09:26,290 Speaker 2: perhaps Condoned, that The greater earner in the family has 175 00:09:26,290 --> 00:09:30,270 Speaker 2: priority in a scenario in relation to decision making. And 176 00:09:30,270 --> 00:09:32,030 Speaker 2: so that goes back to our earlier point that women 177 00:09:32,030 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 2: have been generally in lesser paid work, so that has a 178 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 2: flow on consequence. But I think when you see it 179 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,709 Speaker 2: right in the home, when there are two workers in 180 00:09:40,710 --> 00:09:42,730 Speaker 2: the home and one goes off into an office and 181 00:09:42,730 --> 00:09:45,390 Speaker 2: closes the door for the day and the other is 182 00:09:45,390 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 2: the one that is managing in relation to the kids, 183 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 2: guiding their education and making sure the food is ready 184 00:09:52,530 --> 00:09:56,329 Speaker 2: is recognition of that not being fair here on one level, 185 00:09:56,330 --> 00:09:59,250 Speaker 2: but also not being healthy in relation to the nature 186 00:09:59,250 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 2: of that relationship, to the image for those Children in 187 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:07,050 Speaker 2: terms of men and women's equal roles in society. Maybe 188 00:10:07,050 --> 00:10:11,470 Speaker 2: this pandemic is an opportunity for family of scenarios to 189 00:10:11,470 --> 00:10:15,479 Speaker 2: sit down and address more directly. What is now so 190 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,090 Speaker 2: obvious when it's in the home, that imbalance in the 191 00:10:19,100 --> 00:10:21,750 Speaker 2: management of the home. And I think it's not just 192 00:10:21,750 --> 00:10:25,170 Speaker 2: about helping women per se, but helping men as well, 193 00:10:25,179 --> 00:10:27,980 Speaker 2: because there is evidence out there that the more involved 194 00:10:27,990 --> 00:10:31,660 Speaker 2: men are in the caring aspects of their own family 195 00:10:31,660 --> 00:10:35,150 Speaker 2: life or beyond the better impact that has on men 196 00:10:35,150 --> 00:10:39,630 Speaker 2: as well, both psychologically but also if their leaders understanding 197 00:10:39,630 --> 00:10:43,229 Speaker 2: in that leadership role, the real lived experiences of who 198 00:10:43,230 --> 00:10:44,550 Speaker 2: leadership impacts on. 199 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,330 Speaker 1: Do you have any advice for women who find themselves 200 00:10:47,330 --> 00:10:49,820 Speaker 1: in a position where they feel like they're being forced 201 00:10:49,820 --> 00:10:53,589 Speaker 1: into taking on so much right now with working from home, 202 00:10:53,590 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: home schooling, Children taking care of life admin and domestic duties. 203 00:10:57,290 --> 00:11:00,370 Speaker 1: All of those things is it a simple as starting 204 00:11:00,370 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 1: the conversation with the people in their house that this 205 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,079 Speaker 1: needs to be shared? And how do you combat those 206 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: who say, You know, there might be men in this 207 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,170 Speaker 1: situation who say, Well, I'm working hard to and you 208 00:11:11,170 --> 00:11:14,350 Speaker 1: know I'm doing my best. How do you combat that? 209 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:19,270 Speaker 2: Yes, well, it's difficult to navigate h How do we have those conversations? 210 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,970 Speaker 2: Our organization the 50 50 by 2030 Foundation is kick 211 00:11:22,970 --> 00:11:26,530 Speaker 2: starting a research project around how best to move forward 212 00:11:26,530 --> 00:11:29,329 Speaker 2: on this and people over the course of a week 213 00:11:29,330 --> 00:11:32,260 Speaker 2: take photos of What care in the home is looking, 214 00:11:32,260 --> 00:11:34,989 Speaker 2: what during the pandemic, and we're hoping to use that 215 00:11:34,990 --> 00:11:37,250 Speaker 2: as a way of testing out some research about how 216 00:11:37,250 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 2: best to manage this how best to assist people not 217 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:44,450 Speaker 2: only personally, but also through government policy of what triggers 218 00:11:44,450 --> 00:11:48,210 Speaker 2: can be placed by government to assist families in addressing 219 00:11:48,210 --> 00:11:52,179 Speaker 2: this issue in a way that will improve the sharing 220 00:11:52,179 --> 00:11:55,250 Speaker 2: of the load in the home in assist man. In 221 00:11:55,250 --> 00:11:58,010 Speaker 2: coming to terms with that, I've heard also of a 222 00:11:58,010 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 2: senior male public servant in Aus trade Writing an email to all of 223 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,190 Speaker 2: his colleagues who are all men actually addressing men's role 224 00:12:06,190 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 2: in the home, and how he, as their manager, wants 225 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,340 Speaker 2: to support them in ensuring that they are doing as 226 00:12:12,340 --> 00:12:15,180 Speaker 2: much as they can in their family environment. It is 227 00:12:15,179 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 2: about both internally within the home, trying to work out mechanisms, 228 00:12:19,130 --> 00:12:21,910 Speaker 2: but also of leaders in the workforce, recognizing in a 229 00:12:21,910 --> 00:12:25,050 Speaker 2: transparent way with their own workforce that this is an 230 00:12:25,050 --> 00:12:27,910 Speaker 2: important issue that really needs to be addressed so that 231 00:12:27,910 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 2: there is an equality in the home which I believe will 232 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,309 Speaker 2: lead to a greater equality in the public sphere. 233 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: When we asked for people to share their opinions on 234 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,550 Speaker 1: taking on more of the mental load during the time 235 00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:42,300 Speaker 1: of Coronavirus , many responded with indignation, telling us that 236 00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: their partner wasn't like that and that their husband or 237 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,260 Speaker 1: partner was helping Just as much. And there are many men 238 00:12:48,260 --> 00:12:51,140 Speaker 1: who are definitely pulling their weight. But it is well 239 00:12:51,140 --> 00:12:54,090 Speaker 1: documented that this is not the norm, and sometimes we 240 00:12:54,090 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: don't want to see that in our own partner, because 241 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,380 Speaker 1: doesn't that make him a bad guy? The answer is no, 242 00:12:59,380 --> 00:13:02,260 Speaker 1: of course. He's also been conditioned to think that his 243 00:13:02,260 --> 00:13:04,890 Speaker 1: time is more valuable than yours. Even if you earn 244 00:13:04,890 --> 00:13:07,300 Speaker 1: more he has been told that if he doesn't earn more 245 00:13:07,300 --> 00:13:10,020 Speaker 1: than you, he's deficient and, God forbid, he take on 246 00:13:10,020 --> 00:13:12,949 Speaker 1: more of the household duties than you. Then he's considered 247 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: less of a man. So while he may not be standing 248 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:17,690 Speaker 1: in the doorway telling you you have to stay at 249 00:13:17,690 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: home and do your womanly duties. He may be completely 250 00:13:21,090 --> 00:13:24,300 Speaker 1: oblivious to the 10 million small jobs you've done today 251 00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:26,819 Speaker 1: because he has been told his whole life that you're 252 00:13:26,820 --> 00:13:28,650 Speaker 1: supposed to be responsible for those. 253 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,540 Speaker 1: When we caught up with author and Harvard Law School 254 00:13:31,540 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: educated organizational manager Eve Brodsky in an earlier episode of 255 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: The Quickie, she said, The key to navigating this with your 256 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:42,030 Speaker 1: partner is making sure he knows your time is just 257 00:13:42,030 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 1: a valuable men, women and society view men's time as finite, 258 00:13:46,970 --> 00:13:50,839 Speaker 1: like diamonds, and women's time is infinite, like sand. And 259 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,230 Speaker 1: I would ask the men, Why aren't you packing the lunches, 260 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,750 Speaker 1: taking your kids to the doctor's appointments, applying the sunscreen, and 261 00:13:57,750 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 1: they would say to me I don't have time whereas 262 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 1: women would always say to me, 263 00:14:03,420 --> 00:14:07,420 Speaker 1: I find time. We both only have 24 hours in 264 00:14:07,420 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: a day, and I found that once men and women 265 00:14:11,309 --> 00:14:16,270 Speaker 1: as a couple can reframe time men started responding when 266 00:14:16,270 --> 00:14:19,300 Speaker 1: women were willing to have a real conversation in a 267 00:14:19,310 --> 00:14:23,710 Speaker 1: very calm way, an unemotional way to say, I want 268 00:14:23,710 --> 00:14:25,810 Speaker 1: to relook at how we look at our home together. 269 00:14:25,820 --> 00:14:28,290 Speaker 1: I want to reexamine. I want to bring more efficiency 270 00:14:28,290 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: to our homes. Men were listening, but if we're going 271 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,340 Speaker 1: to say to ourselves as women that we're better multitaskers 272 00:14:35,390 --> 00:14:37,670 Speaker 1: that it's just easier for us to do it because 273 00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:39,930 Speaker 1: he's gonna do it wrong. If we're gonna say to 274 00:14:39,930 --> 00:14:42,570 Speaker 1: ourselves that my husband makes more money, so I should 275 00:14:42,570 --> 00:14:45,210 Speaker 1: do more, we will be in these conversations for another 276 00:14:45,210 --> 00:14:46,150 Speaker 1: 100 years. 277 00:14:46,890 --> 00:14:49,780 Speaker 1: It's looking like working life. Post COVID 19 will be 278 00:14:49,780 --> 00:14:52,350 Speaker 1: a tough time for many women in casual part time 279 00:14:52,350 --> 00:14:55,810 Speaker 1: and low paying jobs. Many will find themselves facing greater 280 00:14:55,810 --> 00:14:59,230 Speaker 1: competition for positions, and if that social conditioning makes men 281 00:14:59,230 --> 00:15:01,950 Speaker 1: more valuable than women in the workplace, and men are 282 00:15:01,950 --> 00:15:04,380 Speaker 1: more likely to be in a position of leadership then 283 00:15:04,380 --> 00:15:07,350 Speaker 1: opportunities for women may have just taken a big backward step. 284 00:15:07,940 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: So while we're stuck at home and our husbands, partners, boyfriends, 285 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,710 Speaker 1: whatever you call them can see first hand just how 286 00:15:13,710 --> 00:15:16,950 Speaker 1: much responsibility you shoulder. Now is the time to have 287 00:15:16,950 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: those conversations so they can start taking on some responsibility 288 00:15:20,810 --> 00:15:23,610 Speaker 1: that will not only just benefit you but themselves too. 289 00:15:25,340 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: That's all for the quickie today. This episode was produced 290 00:15:28,130 --> 00:15:31,610 Speaker 1: by Melanie Tait with audio production by Ian Camilleri. And 291 00:15:31,610 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: if you're wondering how you might prepare to emerge back 292 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: into the world post self isolation, check in with Mamam 293 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,430 Speaker 1: ia's You Beauty podcast This week, Jules on Hep tells you 294 00:15:40,430 --> 00:15:44,220 Speaker 1: how to achieve the perfect fake 10 every time. Check 295 00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:46,710 Speaker 1: out your beauty in your favourite podcast today.