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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Bama. Mea out loud, It's what

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Speaker 1: women are actually talking about on Monday, the thirtieth March.

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Speaker 1: I'm hollywayn right.

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Speaker 2: I'm beautiful boys okay, and vernon filling in familia today, Claire,

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Speaker 2: I have to tell you something.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, Sash producer Sash might cut this out, but

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Speaker 1: I just have to tell you how to dream about

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Speaker 1: you last night. And I know that hearing other people's

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Speaker 1: dreams are really boring, So but this is so quick.

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Speaker 3: Okay, when am I involved?

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Speaker 1: No, you weren't there, but you can offer your thoughts. Sure,

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Speaker 1: we were together at some kind of event, which we

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Speaker 1: were at the weekend, so that's accurate. And you fainted,

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Speaker 1: so you're pregnant. So you fainted.

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Speaker 3: Is that it happens during it does?

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Speaker 4: And on the weekend I had that's so weird. I

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Speaker 4: was sitting on stage and had this moment of like,

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Speaker 4: imagine if I faint.

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Speaker 1: Oh, well, you fainted in my dream. You fainted, right,

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Speaker 1: And I said, somebody get her a nurse, and a

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Speaker 1: nurse came and she was attending to you. And then

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Speaker 1: I said to the nurse in your dream, now she's fine.

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Speaker 1: Could you just put a few fillers down here, please,

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Speaker 1: just jimmy jab jab jab jab. So I got a

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Speaker 1: bit of a bit of needles in my head while

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Speaker 1: you were on the floor.

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Speaker 5: Being fund and that just shows where your head's face.

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Speaker 4: Wow, it's really It's like, will I help people?

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Speaker 5: Yes? But do I also need something.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, a free full of anxiety about

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Speaker 1: my face? Yes? Anyway, nothing to do with that. Here's

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Speaker 1: what's on our agenda for today.

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Speaker 4: An historic case has been one against meta and YouTube,

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Speaker 4: and it's been called TeX's Big Tobacco Moment.

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Speaker 1: The Queen thought that Megs's wedding dress was too white,

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Speaker 1: and other tidbits from a new biography that deliciously upends

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Speaker 1: the stereotype of the cutesy, nicy little old.

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Speaker 6: Lady and fun maxing adults are becoming more and more

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Speaker 6: obsessed with organized fun and from both experience.

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Speaker 3: And bad experience.

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of thoughts. But first, Emily Vernon.

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Speaker 6: In case you missed it, pr chemistry is dead.

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Speaker 1: Thank god.

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Speaker 6: Sendeia and Robert Pattison might have heard of them. They

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Speaker 6: are currently on a press tour promoting their new film,

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Speaker 6: d drama where they play newlyweds so this means they

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Speaker 6: perfectly fit into the formula of pr chemistry, and that

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Speaker 6: is when two very good looking people, they have to

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Speaker 6: be very good looking, two very good looking actors who

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Speaker 6: play an on screen romance take that romance off screen,

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Speaker 6: and you see them looking like they're kind of really

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Speaker 6: into each other on red carpets and interviews. They're very

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Speaker 6: very touchy. They're very very huggy, very very kissy. Usually

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Speaker 6: they're also in separate relationships.

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Speaker 1: So famously recently Margo and.

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Speaker 6: Jake, Margo and Jacob. We first saw it with Bradley

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Speaker 6: Cooper and Lady Gaga Forrest Star Is Born, and a

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Speaker 6: lot of rumors went wild. Then Sidney Sweeney did it

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Speaker 6: when she produced her film and Start alongside Glenn Powell

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Speaker 6: for the Idea of You. Liam Niesen and Pamela Anderson

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Speaker 6: failed at it.

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Speaker 1: Oh, they took it to it took it entire level.

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Speaker 3: And they were like, oh, we were in a relationship.

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Speaker 6: We're like, no, you're not going to say it to

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Speaker 6: keep us getting And then of course Margo, Robbie and Jacobal,

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Speaker 6: Lordie now Zendeia and Robert Pattison have not been doing that.

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Speaker 6: You see videos of them on the red carpet, and

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Speaker 6: in their interviews they give each other a thumbs up,

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Speaker 6: they keep a respectful distance, a high five and elbow touch,

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Speaker 6: like we're in COVID times and everyone's really really confused

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Speaker 6: because we're all like, why aren't you pretending to have

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Speaker 6: an affair.

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Speaker 1: I'm a bit irritated by the coverage of this I've seen.

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Speaker 1: I've seen lots of Instagram posts that are like, how refreshing. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I've got one here. I'll just read a little bit

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Speaker 1: of it because it just tells you the vibe. Zendeia

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Speaker 1: and Robert Patterson's press tour is going viral, but not

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Speaker 1: for the usual reasons. Fans have noticed them keeping things

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Speaker 1: strictly professional, with no flirty moments blah blah blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: This is just a more mature, low key press tour

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Speaker 1: that's been praised for respecting boundaries. There's lots of kind

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Speaker 1: of like judgin us whether then, like knowing pictures of

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Speaker 1: Margot Robbie and Jacob Alordie looking longingly at each other

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Speaker 1: on the red carpets across the world and going isn't

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Speaker 1: it refreshing that these two seem to really respect their relationships,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like finger wagging much yeah.

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Speaker 4: Because the argument is like, zendayas engaged to Tom Holland, Okay, yes, sorry,

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Speaker 4: we haven't seen photos. Sorry like photos, it didn't happen

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Speaker 4: marriage Tom Holland and Rob Pattinson is with Suki.

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Speaker 3: Waterhouse, yes, and they have a child.

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Speaker 4: Yes. And so the argument, I guess is like, because

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Speaker 4: they're in really functional long term relationships, they know not

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Speaker 4: to like mess it up and upset their partners when

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Speaker 4: they're doing red carpets or interviews. But I would like

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Speaker 4: to challenge this because I went deep and this is

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Speaker 4: just evidence of how every kind of phenomenon slash viral

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Speaker 4: moment is so manufactured and just nitpicked. Because there is

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Speaker 4: that viral footage and it is funny to see the contrast.

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Speaker 4: There's viral footage of Zendeya and Rob Pattinson and they

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Speaker 4: are kind of high fiving and clearly like quite friendly

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Speaker 4: rather than anything romantic or sexual tension any of that

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Speaker 4: on a red carpet, and then they contrast it with

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Speaker 4: like Mark Owen Jacob. However, I have also seen interviews

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Speaker 4: between Zendaya and Robert Pattinson where there is chemistry like

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Speaker 4: they do. They do get along.

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Speaker 1: Well, of course they get along like and she.

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Speaker 5: Is saying some like.

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Speaker 4: I saw some interviews where I thought you could clip

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Speaker 4: this and make it look like they're being flirty. And

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Speaker 4: when Holly and I were in the same room as

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Speaker 4: our friends Margo, Robbie and Jacob Elordi.

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Speaker 1: We were the PREMI yeah, if we had.

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Speaker 4: Filmed them on stage, it would have looked like they

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Speaker 4: were just respectful colleagues.

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Speaker 5: Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: I thought you suggesting Claire that this is all a

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Speaker 1: media beat a part I cannot believe it. But there

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Speaker 1: is also I just think we are The audience in

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Speaker 1: general is much savvy than they used to be, right,

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Speaker 1: so maybe, particularly with the Sydney Sweeney Glenn thing he wants.

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Speaker 1: I do love him. I can't believe I forgot my

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Speaker 1: We do like him a lot, big fan of his.

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Speaker 1: When they convinced everyone they happened, maybe they were. Who knows, right,

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Speaker 1: we don't. We never know for sure. It's not like people.

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Speaker 1: It's not like we're in the bedroom with them. It's

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Speaker 1: not like we know these things well.

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Speaker 6: His partner at the time came out and said that

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Speaker 6: she was not happy with how it was happening.

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Speaker 3: And did did Sidney She was engaged.

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Speaker 6: She was engaged to her producer on the movie, and

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Speaker 6: they broke up after.

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Speaker 1: So we don't really know what's fake and what's real.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is we've we're all much more literate

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Speaker 1: in pr because we all watched the Internet twenty four

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Speaker 1: to seven. So that trope has just gotten tired. I

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Speaker 1: reckon that Margo and Jacob probably had the last dip

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Speaker 1: at it, do you know what I mean? Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: they're both with it. Well, Margo certainly is with somebody

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Speaker 1: else and has a child, and there's no suggestion there's anything,

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Speaker 1: you know, not right in that relationship. But they did

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Speaker 1: play it up time on the red carpet, but then

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Speaker 1: the movie demanded that they had to appear to be

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Speaker 1: people who could not keep their hands off each other

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Speaker 1: under any circumstances. But I just think maybe that's past.

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Speaker 1: And so the narrative we like better about Zendaa because

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Speaker 1: she is one of the most popular celebrities in the world,

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Speaker 1: is that she is a chaste wife. Oh that's what

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Speaker 1: we like. We like to think of her as being

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Speaker 1: how do I become a chaste wife? Well, you Basically,

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Speaker 1: there's lots of clips of like if men ever try,

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Speaker 1: you know, saying an award ceremony and a man might

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Speaker 1: put his arm on an elbow, like guider on the stairs.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't doesn't like it. She's boundaried, right, and we

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Speaker 1: like that. We're like boundary chased queen, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. And I think we've just borne into that relationship.

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Speaker 1: So it's all you're right, Claire, it's all about the

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Speaker 1: Lenzi looking.

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Speaker 4: And speaking of media beat ups, I remember when I

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Speaker 4: interviewed Zendaya and zac Efron and went viral on you

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Speaker 4: that weirdly went viral on YouTube. There were rumors at

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Speaker 4: the time that they were dating.

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Speaker 1: Because I don't think you can't have a hetero sexual

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Speaker 1: couple in playing lovers in a movie without everybody speculating.

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Speaker 4: Exactly, especially when they're young and really good looking exactly.

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Speaker 4: And I sat in the room with them and could

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Speaker 4: tell you they were colleagues, that that.

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Speaker 5: Was the relationship. But that video went viral.

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Speaker 4: Because it kept looking over it, because everybody kept.

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Speaker 5: Zooming in and analyzing it.

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Speaker 4: And there's one particular clip that's super viral where he

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Speaker 4: makes a joke to her and she makes a joke back,

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Speaker 4: and everyone's like they like each other.

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Speaker 5: They were together.

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Speaker 4: They were together, and I'm like, as someone in the room.

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Speaker 1: They were, she's super professional.

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Speaker 4: If zac Efron loved anyone in that room, it was.

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Speaker 1: Beautiful. Side fringe and okay, we need to repost this immediately.

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Speaker 1: It's so good.

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Speaker 5: Actually we will.

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Speaker 1: We will zendaa as amazing in real life as she

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Speaker 1: is on there.

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Speaker 5: She's so beautiful.

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Speaker 4: She was very young there.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we could go down that rabbit hole. That's not.

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Speaker 4: Last Wednesday, a jury in Los Angeles handed down an

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Speaker 4: unprecedented win for a young woman who sued Meta and

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Speaker 4: YouTube over her childhood addiction to social media. Jurors found

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Speaker 4: that Meta, which owns Instagram, Facebook, and WhatsApp, and Google,

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Speaker 4: who owns YouTube, intentionally built addictive social media platforms that

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Speaker 4: harmed this twenty year old's mental health. The woman known

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Speaker 4: as KGM, was awarded six million US dollars in damages,

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Speaker 4: with Meta to pay seventy percent and YouTube to pay

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Speaker 4: the remainder. Holly and em have you seen this story

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Speaker 4: floating around?

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Speaker 6: I've seen it literally everywhere. I feel like it hasn't

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Speaker 6: really infiltrated, like my friendship groups as yet, And I

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Speaker 6: don't know if that's because of an age thing where

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Speaker 6: we kind of did go through the whole social media

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Speaker 6: addiction phase and now we're like, I feel like quote

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Speaker 6: unquote on the other end of it. But I saw

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Speaker 6: it like all over my Instagram, all my Facebook.

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Speaker 1: IM likely I've seen it everywhere too. But Claire, what

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Speaker 1: I want to understand because I've seen this being referred

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Speaker 1: to as, as you said in the intro, the big

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Speaker 1: tobacco moment, I've seen it being I've seen it said

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Speaker 1: that this is a seismic landmark event that blah blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah. And then on the other hand, it's

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Speaker 1: like six million dollars is absolutely nothing to these guys.

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Speaker 1: They probably made that while I was just talking. So

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Speaker 1: why has it seen as such a big deal, such

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Speaker 1: a landmark case.

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Speaker 4: So there are a few reasons why it's been seen

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Speaker 4: as such a precedent setting moment in terms of the

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Speaker 4: laws around social media companies. For one, basically in terms

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Speaker 4: of the parallel to what happened with cigarette companies in

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Speaker 4: this ruling, it's been found that the platforms are addictive

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Speaker 4: and were deliberately engineered that way and that its owners

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Speaker 4: have been negligent in their safety.

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Speaker 1: So accept this precedent.

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Speaker 4: Yes, And in terms of you're right, six million dollars

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Speaker 4: is absolutely nothing to them. They it's like a five

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Speaker 4: dollar fine. But this is called in the legal system

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Speaker 4: a Bellweather trial, and it's the first of more than

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Speaker 4: twenty that are slated to go to court over the

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Speaker 4: next couple of years in order to set a more

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Speaker 4: solid legal precedent. And then there's another separate series of

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Speaker 4: federal cases slated to go ahead in San Francisco in June. Basically,

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Speaker 4: this opens the floodgates because before now, the general understanding

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Speaker 4: has been and this was the general understanding the cigarettes

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Speaker 4: you are choosing to use the social media platform and importantly,

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Speaker 4: legally social media platforms are not liable for.

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Speaker 5: The content on those social media platforms.

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Speaker 4: However, this is interesting because it wasn't about the content,

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Speaker 4: It's about the design, and they're being found liable for

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Speaker 4: designing something addictive.

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Speaker 1: So has does this ruling and any that might follow

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Speaker 1: kind of prove in court something that people talk about

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Speaker 1: a lot, which is that social media is definitively bad

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Speaker 1: for all of our mental health.

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Speaker 4: No, and that wasn't what it was testing, so it

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Speaker 4: didn't have to prove that In terms of liability. The

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Speaker 4: jury was asked whether the company's negligence was a substantial

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Speaker 4: factor in causing harm to this young girl, and when

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Speaker 4: she talks about the harm, it is so. She says,

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Speaker 4: by the time she was six, she was on YouTube,

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Speaker 4: by the time she was nine, she was addicted to Instagram,

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Speaker 4: and by the time she was ten she had become

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Speaker 4: depressed was engaging in self harm. When she was thirteen,

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Speaker 4: her therapist diagnosed her with body dysmorphic disorder and social phobia.

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Speaker 4: And she says social media caused all sorts of issues

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Speaker 4: in her relationships with her friends and family and in school.

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Speaker 1: And I imagine that the tech companies are like, well,

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Speaker 1: you can't blame us for all that. There must have

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Speaker 1: been other stuff going on in.

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Speaker 4: Your life exactly, and they specifically point to parenting, of course,

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Speaker 4: from her mother. Now, a Meta spokesperson has said, as

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Speaker 4: you say, Holly, that teen mental health is profoundly complex

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Speaker 4: and cannot be linked to a single app. A YouTube

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Speaker 4: spokesperson said this case misunderstands YouTube, which is a responsibly

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Speaker 4: built streaming platform, not a social media site. Both companies

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Speaker 4: have consistently denied wrongdoing. Meta has said it will appeal

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Speaker 4: the ruling, and a YouTube spokesperson also disagrees with a

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Speaker 4: verdict and they plan to appeal as well. But what

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Speaker 4: the jury were kind of asked to do was not

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Speaker 4: to say, is this definitively bad for everyone who uses it.

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Speaker 4: That's not what they were interested in. They will ask

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Speaker 4: questions around whether the company's products, and it's interesting when

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Speaker 4: they went into it because it was about the feeds,

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Speaker 4: auto player videos, recommendations of videos, infinite scroll, if those

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Speaker 4: features were dangerous in their design in a way that

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Speaker 4: created risk of harm, and whether they failed to warn

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Speaker 4: users about those risks, and whether those features of design

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Speaker 4: substantially contributed to the specific plaintiffs harm. So everybody agrees

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Speaker 4: mental health is multifaceted and it's not caused by a

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Speaker 4: single thing, So that's why that substantially contributed to the harm.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that this case and the sort of

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Speaker 1: predicted tsunami of similar cases coming their way really backs

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Speaker 1: up Australia's position. We I think that we remain the

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Speaker 1: only country in the world who has actually passed an

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Speaker 1: age restriction into law on social media and people listening

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Speaker 1: to this who have kids in that demographic will argue

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Speaker 1: till the cows come home about how effective that has

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Speaker 1: or hasn't been. But it was certainly putting a flag

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Speaker 1: in the ground that no one else has yet done.

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Speaker 1: And does its suggest that we really are the trailblazers

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Speaker 1: we like to think we are.

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Speaker 5: It does it?

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Speaker 4: Pretty much every most international articles or podcasts that I've

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Speaker 4: listened to about this have referenced Australia's laws obviously in

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Speaker 4: December last year banning under sixteens from social media, and

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Speaker 4: experts are basically saying the age of impunity is over

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Speaker 4: and it could be the beginning of the end of

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Speaker 4: the social media era as we know it.

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Speaker 5: And so the.

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Speaker 4: UK apparently has been talking about doing similar legislation to Australia,

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Speaker 4: and it's kind of popping up everywhere. And I think

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Speaker 4: that this case and the ones that follow could, I mean,

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Speaker 4: it gives credibility to Australia jumping on it.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting about that I sense that. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't mean I sense us in in the wind. I

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Speaker 1: mean from reading all the about all this stuff being involved,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the ban as much as we were

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Speaker 1: is that we've probably seen the worst the excesses of

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Speaker 1: the social media era. But then AI is right behind him,

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Speaker 1: so it's like, what's going to happen there? But with

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Speaker 1: the social media stuff. The thing that's then interesting is

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Speaker 1: I think there's going to be a very specific cohort

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Speaker 1: generation who have fallen in between this era of I

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Speaker 1: had a phone when I was ten or whatever and

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Speaker 1: the bands coming into effect, who probably in a few

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Speaker 1: years time will have given themselves a snappy name. I

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Speaker 1: don't mean that in a derogatory way. I mean because

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Speaker 1: their lives will have been affected in a way that

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Speaker 1: I don't think that your kids, for example, Claire, I

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Speaker 1: don't think they will be I mean, there'll be something

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Speaker 1: else going on, but I think that the gate will

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Speaker 1: have been closed on this particular challenge, if you like,

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Speaker 1: to the complexities of being that age and being so

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Speaker 1: perceived and so preyed upon in a way by this

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Speaker 1: addictive technology. I think it's really interesting because that cohort

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Speaker 1: will have a very specific identification, a bit like COVID

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Speaker 1: school kids or you know. I think it's that era

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Speaker 1: defining moment, like if you ask my mom about why

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Speaker 1: she was drinking cocktails while she was pregnant. She would

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Speaker 1: have said, because we didn't know, we didn't know it

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Speaker 1: was bad. And like, I think there's probably an era

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Speaker 1: there of parents and I would certainly fall into this category.

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Speaker 1: My parent kids are teenagers of like, well, we knew

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Speaker 1: it wasn't great. We felt there was something wrong, but

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Speaker 1: we didn't know it was that bad, you know. And

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Speaker 1: then yeah, now that line has been drawn, I think

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Speaker 1: there's going to be a real difference.

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Speaker 6: And also how fast, like certain platforms like YouTube have

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Speaker 6: just grown. I feel like when I first heard about

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Speaker 6: the social media ban in Australia, in my head at

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Speaker 6: the time, I was kind of like, oh, it wasn't

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Speaker 6: like that bad, like do we actually need a social

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Speaker 6: media band? And I think it was only when I

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Speaker 6: read through this case with the young woman and she

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Speaker 6: talked about dealing with body dysmorphia and having social phobia

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Speaker 6: that it just kind of like hit little points in

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Speaker 6: my head of having these like distinct memories of when

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Speaker 6: I had social media when I was younger, Like I

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Speaker 6: think I got my first smartphone when I was around fifteen,

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Speaker 6: which is when everyone started to.

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Speaker 3: Get into iPhones.

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Speaker 6: I started watching YouTube. I think it was two thousand

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Speaker 6: and four, two thousand and five, when I was a

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Speaker 6: young child, and I would just go come home from school,

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Speaker 6: go straight into my room, and have all my channels

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Speaker 6: set that I wanted to watch. My parents had no idea.

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Speaker 1: When I was doing visibility.

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Speaker 6: And it was also the time where school started implementing

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Speaker 6: like learning how to use laptops and learning how to

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Speaker 6: use computers, so they probably just thought I was just

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Speaker 6: doing my homework on my laptop. And I remember like

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Speaker 6: such distinct moments of I was really into Snapchat and

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Speaker 6: we Snapchat had this feature maps where you could see

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Speaker 6: all your friends and where they still has that with

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Speaker 6: her friends, and I remember feeling so so sick every

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Speaker 6: time I checked maps and saw all my friends at

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Speaker 6: one house. No one's told me anything that they're going

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Speaker 6: to this house. I look at their Instagram stories constantly.

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Speaker 6: I to the point where my mom one time made

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Speaker 6: me leave my phone in my bedroom to come down

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Speaker 6: to have dinner. Five minutes sit and have dinner, and

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Speaker 6: I physically felt sick like leaving my phone upstairs, not

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Speaker 6: knowing what my friends are doing, and coming down to

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Speaker 6: have dinner. It was something I could not do, and

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Speaker 6: it was only when I read this case, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 6: this is a good thing.

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Speaker 1: And this isn't what life was once, Like, Oh, it's

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Speaker 1: interesting because to the point of like, you will be

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Speaker 1: telling your kids in the way that gen X's tell

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Speaker 1: their kids, like when we were kids, we had to

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Speaker 1: just fall asleep under the pub table, or we had

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Speaker 1: you know, we were driven home without seat belts, or

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Speaker 1: we drank from the garden hose or whatever you'll be

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Speaker 1: telling them. I was allowed to have my phone whenever

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Speaker 1: I wanted it, and I was watching all this harmful shit.

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Speaker 1: Did it do me any harm? Probably? I talked to

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Speaker 1: my therapist about it a lot.

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Speaker 4: And this girl was spending at kind of the peak

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Speaker 4: of her social media use, was spending sixteen hours a

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Speaker 4: day on her phone.

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Speaker 5: That was her screen time.

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Speaker 4: And I just thought, you know what, there's probably a

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Speaker 4: huge cohort of people where that is not that shocking.

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Speaker 1: Not at all, and adults too, right. I think there's

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Speaker 1: a great book. I just want to recommend it called

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Speaker 1: Careless People. Have you read that?

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Speaker 5: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Why Sarah win Williams, and she used to work at Facebook.

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Speaker 1: Now Meda has said a lot of the claims in

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Speaker 1: that book are untrue, but she was a higher executive,

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Speaker 1: This very impressive Kiwi woman her executive at Meta for

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Speaker 1: a lot of years. And it's a very engaging, easy

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Speaker 1: to read book. And the reason it's called Careless People

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Speaker 1: is it's not suggesting like evil or mal intent. It's

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Speaker 1: just saying you had some of the smartest, most ambitious

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00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: minds in the world learning in real time about this

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00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,360
Speaker 1: thing that invented and its influence and power, and were

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Speaker 1: often surprised by its influence and power, like, oh, we

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Speaker 1: didn't realize we could actually affect a political movement. We

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Speaker 1: didn't realize it could do this. And it sort of

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00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:53,560
Speaker 1: tracks those short years really where it became very obvious

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Speaker 1: what that influence was and then what you decide to

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Speaker 1: do with it. It's really good book. I audio booked

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Speaker 1: it and it was great. It's a great listen After

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Speaker 1: the Break. A new biography upends the idea that the

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Speaker 1: late Queen was just a lovely old lady who drank

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Speaker 1: tea with Paddington and was nice to absolutely everybody, and

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Speaker 1: thank God for that. I am here, friends to shatter

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Speaker 1: some comforting illusions about lovely little old ladies. I want

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Speaker 1: all the out louders to know that I'm putting that

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Speaker 1: in inverted commas.

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Speaker 6: It is sad.

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Speaker 3: I don't know why I don't do Monday Show.

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Speaker 1: I did a panel on the weekend at the Newcastle

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Speaker 1: Write festal about ageism and Little Old Lady definitely falls

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Speaker 1: into that category of agism. So I'm putting it in

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Speaker 1: inverted commas. Right, But then we have this vision of

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Speaker 1: what a little old lady is, cuddly, grandma's kind words,

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Speaker 1: forgiving smiles. But I don't know if you're ready for this,

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Speaker 1: but apparently the late Queen Queen Elizabethsid who we all

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Speaker 1: is much adored and revited and you know, respected and

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Speaker 1: considered to be lovely, could be a bit of a bitch.

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Speaker 3: That's wrong, You're wrong.

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Speaker 5: You can't. You can't.

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Speaker 4: You'll holy You'll think that this is uh no, it

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Speaker 4: is ageist. How can somebody so cute?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, Stevens and I've been having this route

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Speaker 1: for ten years when people called older people cute.

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Speaker 5: I think she's I think I do think she pushes.

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Speaker 1: Every one of my buttons.

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Speaker 5: I'm sorry, but that's okay.

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Speaker 3: Only que people have sandwiches.

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Speaker 1: Were planning to stop with the cute I'm about to

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00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 1: dispel this for you about the particular queen at least.

440
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 1: Right there's a new book coming out that comes out

441
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 1: on April Nights, a week or so away, which is

442
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 1: considered to be a definitive biography. It's not a tabloidy unfortunately,

443
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,439
Speaker 1: it's not a tabloidy, gossipy kind of book. It's going

444
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: to be a big, thick book. It's written by this

445
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: guy called Hugo Vickers, and he wrote the definitive Biography

446
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 1: of the Queen Mother. He's often described as the most

447
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: knowledgeable royal biographer on the planet. He says he's been

448
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,040
Speaker 1: working on this book for forty years. Right, So this

449
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: is a big deal book, and it's just started to

450
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 1: be serialized in the British press because that's what happens

451
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 1: when a big important book's going to come out. So

452
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: I think the Sunday Times had the first extract from

453
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 1: it on the weekend. And of course what you do

454
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: with the book extract is you go, I want the

455
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 1: juiciest bit. And the juiciest bit, of course, was to

456
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 1: do with Harry and Meghan, because that's what everybody wants

457
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 1: the tea about, and the little bits of gossip that

458
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: it dropped about that gave you a flavor for the

459
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: fact that we are getting a proper portrait of a powerful,

460
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 1: kick ass woman here and not of a little old

461
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 1: lady who just like tweet sandwiches. For example, it says

462
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 1: the Queen did not want Harry to marry Meghan as

463
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 1: quickly as he did, and she told him to wait

464
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: a year, right, wait a year before proposing, and he

465
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 1: did not. He was in love and he was like

466
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: rushing ahead. And so that meant that she was broadly

467
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: disinterested in the whole wedding thing and told everybody it

468
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with her, none of her business.

469
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 1: She was just going to turn up. That was it.

470
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 1: She didn't like Meghan's dress. She thought it was too white.

471
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:04,199
Speaker 1: It was how can a wedding dress be too white?

472
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 3: But me and the Queen understand each other.

473
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 4: There are I do have to say, having been wedding

474
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,199
Speaker 4: dress shopping, there are a lot of different kinds of

475
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 4: white that you do not get warned about.

476
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 5: My issue with the dress.

477
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 4: Was not the whiteness. That wasn't something I noticed. But

478
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 4: I was saying to Holly earlier. I do think the

479
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 4: dress wasn't perfectly fitted, and I thought about it for

480
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 4: several years.

481
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: Do you think the Queen was saying that to this

482
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 1: conversation shot it? Apparently? Of course she agonized over Harry's

483
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 1: defection that was also in this story, but she was

484
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 1: quite dismissive too, of him wanting to step away to

485
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 1: be more hands on parent. Famously, the Queen not that

486
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 1: much of her hands on parent.

487
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 4: And how did that turn out, babe, especially with a son.

488
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: She apparently said, And now Harry is opted out, and

489
00:24:58,280 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: for what to be.

490
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 3: A care for Archie? It's so absurd.

491
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: It sounds like such a thing.

492
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 5: Kara Kara for Archie.

493
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 1: She was apparently deeply pissed off with the whole Lily

494
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 1: Bete business. You know how they called their daughter lily

495
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 1: bet and it was in tribute to her, and.

496
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 3: She didn't liked that.

497
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 1: She was like, nobody freaking asked for a tribute in

498
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: that name and to time me to this controversial arm

499
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: of the family because it was her nickname.

500
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 4: And she was like, I didn't give permission for you

501
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 4: to use my special nickname. And it is a very

502
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 4: cute nickname.

503
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 5: For the queen.

504
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 1: It is I noticed that they always call a Lily.

505
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 1: When they talk about her, I think they're trying to

506
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: like because it was a little bit like Fergie and

507
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: the Corgies, is I think it was seen as like

508
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: trying to get a little bit more closeness, a bit

509
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: more proximity to the queen. Anyway, what is interesting, I mean,

510
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,479
Speaker 1: all of that is interesting, obviously, but is that the Queen,

511
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: a few years after her death, is now kind of

512
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 1: getting with all the Prince Andrew stuff and the speculation

513
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 1: about her indulging him more than she should have and

514
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: all all of those kind of things, She's now getting

515
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: a kind of more clear eyed stock take of her

516
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: very influential, very long reign because she was ninety four

517
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,439
Speaker 1: when she died. Right, So we generally like to consider

518
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: people women in particular old in verticommas when they're around sixty.

519
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 1: I reckon, that's when you fisial crossover.

520
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 6: I don't reckon.

521
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 3: I reckon it's eighty.

522
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 1: No, you wish that's because you're nowhere near right.

523
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 4: I know, in terms of again, you're going to get mad,

524
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 4: in terms of.

525
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 5: Age terms cute, Oh no, I say above eighty.

526
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, please stop saying it.

527
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 3: Anyway.

528
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: The irony is, of course, is the way when we

529
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 1: consider people old, talking about that crossing the rubicon is

530
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,360
Speaker 1: all entirely subjective. So I remember, when I first remember

531
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: my first memories of the Queen, I already thought she

532
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 1: was an ancient lady, and she was actually probably the

533
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: age that I am now, which is incredibly young. Of course,

534
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: if I think of my first memories of the Queen,

535
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 1: she was already quite old, is my point, right, She

536
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: was already quite mature by the time she came into

537
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: my consciousness, because for most of her reign she was

538
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: what we would have called mature and old.

539
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 6: Yea, from the time I was born till the time

540
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 6: she died, she was like the same person.

541
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 5: She was the same age.

542
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, she was the same age.

543
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: And I think it's interesting that maybe because of that,

544
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: we have this very like, oh, cutesy view of her,

545
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: when really it shouldn't be surprising even a little bit

546
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: that she was steely, af right, and she had to

547
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: run that family and all the people within it with

548
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: an iron fist and a lot of the stuff that

549
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: we have problems with about the monarchy, and that's a

550
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 1: very long list, from colonization to extreme privilege. Everything she

551
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 1: somehow gets a free pass because we're just like but

552
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: not the queen though, because she's a nice little old lady.

553
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: Isn't it interesting? Why do we put that on older women,

554
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: even when they're clearly actually one of the most powerful,

555
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: influential people in the entire universe.

556
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 4: It is weird that we take away her agency completely

557
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 4: when we do, and I take it, take away her

558
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 4: agency and her personhood when I call her cue you do,

559
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 4: I do, and it is unfair. But the other thing

560
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 4: that I thought while reading all these little details about

561
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 4: her comments about the dress and being Archie's care is

562
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 4: something I've knowned let that go.

563
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: It's so cool.

564
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 5: I would love to.

565
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 4: Test this with both of you because I've been thinking

566
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 4: about it a lot lately. I think the older we get,

567
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 4: the more like the more entrenched we get, any like

568
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 4: slight personality quirk, I think gets more and more entrenched

569
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 4: and more and more severe.

570
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 5: So if you.

571
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 4: Were anxious as like an adult, then I think sometimes

572
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 4: in as you get older and older, that becomes more pronounced,

573
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 4: and I think that that's why you just end up

574
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 4: with I'm just picturing my Nan and the things that

575
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 4: came out of her mouth because she was always a

576
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 4: little bit blunt, and then you get to you get

577
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 4: to eighty five, and you're thinking, oh, my goodness and sore.

578
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 5: I agree.

579
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 4: I think it's weird that we take away the fact

580
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 4: that she was a person who had a lot of power,

581
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 4: a lot of understanding, and a really big bloody job,

582
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 4: a really big job, and probably a lot of those

583
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 4: traits that made her, you know, arguably effective as a leader,

584
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 4: probably became more pronounced the older.

585
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 1: That she got, and she was trying to hold this

586
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: thing together that was like spraying out like a jellyfish.

587
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: Whether you've got Prince Andrew and his unconscionable behavior, or

588
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: you've got Harry who's sick of being the spare, and

589
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: you've got Childs with his affairs, and you've got Princess Diana,

590
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: and you've got all this stuff. And she did, to

591
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: a point hold all that together, and I doubt she

592
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: did it it by just being like, would you.

593
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 6: Like a Samilich exactly, And she probably got to the

594
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 6: age where she was just like, I don't care anymore,

595
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 6: it's my turn to be loud, Harry, don't like you.

596
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: Your dress sucked.

597
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 3: It's finally her time, and I recon say something.

598
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 5: I reckon.

599
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 4: By the time of Harry and Meghan's wedding, she was like,

600
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 4: I've been to enough wedding, done with weddings. I've seen everything,

601
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 4: every dress, seen, every dress heard, every vow. Oh you're

602
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 4: gonna personalize it?

603
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 5: Are you make it your are?

604
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 2: Like?

605
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 4: She was probably so over it. But I think this

606
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 4: also says something about the dynamic between grandchildren and grandparents,

607
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:45,719
Speaker 4: where grandchildren go through the world thinking, my grandmother thinks

608
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 4: I am the son, Yeah, and I can do it

609
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 4: because that's Harry. Harry's like, she loves me. She will

610
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 4: always have a soft spot for me. She will never

611
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,479
Speaker 4: judge me. And meanwhile, she's like free Harry.

612
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 6: She's just so.

613
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: When Bush came to shove, she chose the institution over him,

614
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: and I think like he rolled the dice there. He

615
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: was sort of like, my granny loves me. She always

616
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: thinks that she's going to back me no matter what

617
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: I do. And there are some tipbits in there about

618
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,719
Speaker 1: how he made some comments when he was doing all

619
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: his press stuff about like he was protective of her

620
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,959
Speaker 1: and he wanted the right people to be around her

621
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: and stuff, which apparently she found intensely patronizing and irritating

622
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: because she was like, mate, I've been doing this shit

623
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: a long time, so it's interesting. He rolled and dies there, thinking, well,

624
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: Granny's always on my side because I'm the apple of

625
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: her eye. But actually Granny was thinking about the survival

626
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: of the business.

627
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 4: He was a bit of an apologist for her. Even

628
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 4: in up until recent interviews. He always kind of tries

629
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,239
Speaker 4: to act like she was always on side, but it

630
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 4: was the other people who played a bit of a role.

631
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 4: I thought it was interesting in what we've heard about

632
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 4: this book is that it goes into the fact that

633
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 4: the Queen was very upset when Megan and Harry did

634
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 4: that Oprah interview because it was when Prince Philip's health

635
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 4: was really bad.

636
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: He had just been in surgery.

637
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, and she thought that was really really insensitive, which

638
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 4: I hadn't thought about. I think I was broadly aware

639
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 4: of it, but I thought, yeah, she's still got subjectivity

640
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 4: and she's still got everything going around her. I think

641
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 4: we've thought a lot about Charles and how everything would

642
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 4: have sat with him, but not so much the Queen

643
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 4: and Philip. Now, I know we've been We've been tough

644
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 4: on boomers, we were tough on boomers on Friday.

645
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: We were just talk. We've got a lot of boomer listeners.

646
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: You know, I wonder I know, so, don't let.

647
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 4: Yourself now believe me.

648
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 5: I've had lots of messages. What's the queen?

649
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: She was a silent generation? Is that what they're The

650
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: parents of the boomers were called the silent generation. They're

651
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: the generation who went through the war. They were the

652
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: parents of the baby boomers, and they're called the silent

653
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: generation for lots of reasons, but one of them is

654
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: because they did not complain.

655
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 4: I don't know, they weren't very silent. In hindsight, she

656
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 4: was saying a lot. She was talking shit. She wasn't

657
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 4: not silent.

658
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: They have the boomer's parents.

659
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 4: But I want to say that what I'm about to

660
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 4: share is not necessarily negative. It's simply an observation about

661
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 4: boomers from your millennial friends. A headlining Bustle last week

662
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 4: read are your parents guilty of the Boomer Hospital Reveal,

663
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 4: and in the feature image was a screenshot of a

664
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 4: text message. From the context, you can tell it would

665
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 4: be from somebody's mum saying, Hi, honey, how's your day.

666
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 4: By the way, dad was in the ear that's the

667
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 4: whole message. I've literally had it, and I have literally

668
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 4: had it. And yes, many millennials get frustrated when their

669
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 4: parents withhold critical information because they don't want to worry us.

670
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 4: When my dad had a stroke, my mum called me

671
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 4: and had a five minute chat about my dad and

672
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 4: what I was going to be doing before telling me

673
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 4: she was currently in hospital with dad because he'd had

674
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 4: a stroke and yeah, it was looking like you needed

675
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 4: serious surgery. I'm like, well, you just asked me what

676
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,720
Speaker 4: I was going to do, like I'm coming to hospital.

677
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: Like she started with small tops. She wanted you to

678
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: know that she that she was concerned about you, and

679
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: then she told you what she thought you did.

680
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 4: I said, you need to lead with that, mom. But

681
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 4: here's a TikTok from an account called your Journey Through

682
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 4: that is asking for help understanding this behavior, but uses

683
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:37,240
Speaker 4: another example.

684
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 3: Hey, honey, how you doing.

685
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, grandma's.

686
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 6: Grandma's been on life support for the last week and

687
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 6: it's not looking good.

688
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: So you know, we thought we'd let you know.

689
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, well we wanted to wait until we knew,

690
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 6: we knew for sure that it wasn't looking good.

691
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: Until we coughed.

692
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 4: It's so bizarre, But some of the comments on that

693
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 4: video had quite a cynical view of why our parents

694
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 4: do it. One was they get to avoid our emotions

695
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,240
Speaker 4: over the situation. An otherwise, it's because they don't respect

696
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 4: you as an adult.

697
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 5: Control.

698
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 4: They're obsessed with control, and they still see their adult

699
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 4: children as children.

700
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: Okay, can I just interject with this. This is the

701
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 1: most main character bullshit I've ever heard in my life

702
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: that the adult people millennials are upset that their parents,

703
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: who are going through real crises and real health dramas

704
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: and real issues, are upset that they are not centering

705
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: their children in that.

706
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's because they're not treating us like adults.

707
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 3: And I am the last.

708
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 6: Generation of technically millennial. So now every millennial you know

709
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 6: is in their thirties. There's no more twenties millennials. And

710
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 6: my parents do the same thing where I'm just like,

711
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 6: just tell me, like, why are you skirting around the idea,

712
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 6: Why are you asking me about my day? Why are

713
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 6: you asking me about what happened at work when like

714
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 6: literally someone's in hospital. They also do and I don't

715
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 6: know if that's because they're like on the CUSP, where

716
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 6: they're also gen X. They do the exact opposite. I

717
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 6: remember one time I was in a recording and my

718
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:19,879
Speaker 6: phone kept ringing, but did we keep it on silent

719
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:21,839
Speaker 6: because we're in a recording, And I could see like

720
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 6: three calls from my dad, like three miss calls, and

721
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 6: then the text message please call me. Freaked out, I

722
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 6: had to pause the recording. I was like, can I

723
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 6: please just call my dad? I think something's wrong. Go outside, Hey, Dad.

724
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 6: He's like hey, I'm like, what's going on? And he's like, oh,

725
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 6: I just wanted to check if you've done your car

726
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 6: REGI I'm like, what do.

727
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: You mean, what's with the three calls? What was the

728
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: three calls?

729
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 3: He was like, yeah, I just wanted to check. I

730
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 3: just had some free times.

731
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: I thought i'd call you.

732
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 3: It's the opposite.

733
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 5: Okay, that's my mom.

734
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 4: She'll be in hospital with dad and not give not

735
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 4: give the critical information and then just randomly middle of it.

736
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 4: I call me full stop it.

737
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 3: As well, because I have to be dramatically correct.

738
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, look, I'm not a boomer. I have boomer parents,

739
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: and I can confirm this is exactly how things go.

740
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 1: They live on the other side of the world. They will.

741
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: They'll tell me when things have done, like you know

742
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: what I mean, which I respect it because two reasons. One,

743
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: I think one of the most infuriating things about being

744
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: older must be as to what we were just discussing,

745
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: the fact that everybody infantalizes you all the time. So

746
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: the minute that you've the minute that my and this

747
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 1: isn't a real situation, I'm just you know, using it

748
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 1: as an example. The minute that my mum has told

749
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: me I've got to go for some tests, I'm then

750
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 1: going like, oh my god, what are they? But what

751
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 1: have you asked the doctor this? And have you asked

752
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: the doctor that maybe you should stop eating that, maybe

753
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 1: you should start eating that, and maybe you should get

754
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: this thing? And I'm just making everything worse, you know

755
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 1: what I mean. With my anxiety, my worry, my panic,

756
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: I totally relate to the idea of like, let me

757
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 1: go and find out what I'm dealing with and then

758
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: I'll tell you about it. I think that that is

759
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 1: entirely reasonable. And when it's my turn, I'm sure I'll

760
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: be the same. I will be like the last thing

761
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: I want is my smart ass main character children being like, well,

762
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: I know what you should do. I'll be like, no,

763
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,720
Speaker 1: you don't. I'm a grown up. I get to decide

764
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: what I do. So I reckon, there's a piece of

765
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: that in this, don't you?

766
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 6: Oh no, because I feel like it maybe if they're

767
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,959
Speaker 6: not telling anyone else the last thing you want? Okay,

768
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 6: so you wanted that. One time I was at a

769
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 6: family event and this distant cousin came up to me

770
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 6: and was like, I heard about your dad's head scam.

771
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 3: How you feeling? And I'm like, my dad had a

772
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 3: head scam? Like after I was like, yeah, I had

773
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 3: a head scam. You can't have that. You know that

774
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 3: streamline the process and make it quick.

775
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: So, well, at what point do you want because the

776
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: other thing, the other piece to this puzzle, and this

777
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 1: is with your dad with the three calls, is in

778
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 1: our code because we don't answer phone calls. Right If

779
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: you don't, you don't answer the phone. If someone calls

780
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: back again straight away, then you go ah, right, you

781
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 1: know that that's code for pick the free can phone up.

782
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: But they don't really necessarily know that because they just

783
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: think it was a teachable Yes, so maybe there's a

784
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: communication out of there, But at what point do you

785
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:11,959
Speaker 1: want to know? And what should they.

786
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 4: Say on the way to a hospital on the way

787
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:14,479
Speaker 4: so that.

788
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: You can ruin your day to get you out of work.

789
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,479
Speaker 4: Yes, because I ruined my mom's day all the time,

790
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 4: and it should be reciprocated. When we had a bit

791
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 4: of a family emergency, like I, the first thing I

792
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 4: do before I in the midst of panicking, is like, okay,

793
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 4: things I have to do. Pack a hospital bag, call

794
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:39,399
Speaker 4: the ambulance, call mum. I don't she needs to be there,

795
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 4: and I guess I want to be there for my

796
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 4: parents too.

797
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: This happened to me recently, and my brother didn't tell

798
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 1: me either that there had been a thing happening at home,

799
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:49,919
Speaker 1: and I got really upset, Like the main character energy,

800
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 1: I was like, I can't believe none of you told

801
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 1: me this. And my brother, who is as matter of

802
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,320
Speaker 1: fact as he should be, was like, well, what difference

803
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: would it have made? And that is a fair questions.

804
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 6: That's true after the break. Adults are fun maxing. If

805
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 6: that sorry, that's a fly, If that sentence that's not

806
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 6: fun maxing. Adults are fun maxing if that sentence makes

807
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 6: you roll your eyes, Hollywayne, right, don't worry.

808
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,720
Speaker 1: I'll totally cast myself in this show today as the grump.

809
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 6: I've got some good things to say, and I'm the

810
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 6: one of my ludial faces.

811
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: She had to explain people what a ludial face was,

812
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,280
Speaker 1: which is embarrassing because I'm meant to be white.

813
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 6: There is a company in the US called Grown Kid,

814
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 6: and the ethos is to make young adulthood less lonely

815
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 6: through community and play. So this company was formed in

816
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 6: response to the youth loneliness crisis in the US. And

817
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 6: what they do is host big events where adults can

818
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 6: subscribe to and then get like a little ping that

819
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 6: we're having an event, and they all go and they

820
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 6: all play together. One of their recent events was Evil

821
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,439
Speaker 6: Situationship Boxing RAVE.

822
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: That sounds amazing, So you fight.

823
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 6: Your past lovers exes had a rave? Yeah, and there's

824
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 6: a DJ and there's also a commentator.

825
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if.

826
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 4: You need or I don't know.

827
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:16,879
Speaker 5: It's like pick one thing.

828
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 4: Is it wrestling because.

829
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 5: Because we can wrestle?

830
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 3: Well, this one was boxing.

831
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 4: Okay, boxing, I don't know if the rave is necessary?

832
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 3: Well, then what is everyone else gonna do? They have

833
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 3: to rave?

834
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 6: Raving while you're box can watch, but we all need

835
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 6: to play together. So the older I get, the more

836
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 6: and more I notice all my cohort.

837
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 3: Is that what I actually call that?

838
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 6: My cohort are playing whether But I feel like there's

839
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 6: different definitions of player, So I'm not saying they're like

840
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 6: we're all watching them play hopscotch at town Hall.

841
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: Give me some examples.

842
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 6: Book clubs, Yeah, that's a formal player, movie clubs, trivia, Holly.

843
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 6: I love that Tears are playing scrap booking. Our junior producer,

844
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 6: Tessa does junk journaling. Sometimes she might ask you for

845
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 6: like a receipt or something to put in her junk journal.

846
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: What what's a junk journal?

847
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 6: Oh, it's like instead of writing, you just like pace

848
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 6: a whold of shit scrap booking. But it's like messy,

849
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 6: like the leaves.

850
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:19,760
Speaker 3: And dirt and stuff.

851
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: Testa running to know about.

852
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 3: It, bringing your junk journal?

853
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: Testa, Hey, can I can I rabit hole for one second?

854
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: You know how? Trivia is my chosen form of play.

855
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: Last week trivia, Brent, that's our date night, right, So

856
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: we go to trivia last Thursday. There's a table of

857
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: women there, very smart looking women, and one of them

858
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 1: says to me, Oh, hi, Holly, we're out louders.

859
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 6: I'm like, oh well, not tonight. Tonight you're my enemy.

860
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, welcome to my local trivia night. They wont. Oh,

861
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: of course, a massive shout out to you, my out

862
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,320
Speaker 1: louder friends. But I was like, this is the problem.

863
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: The out Louders came to the very show and they

864
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: stole Brents Scott, the Aladders came to our pop trivia

865
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: and they stole the crap. Out louders are too smart

866
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 1: and too talented. I'm sorry everybody. Anyway, I digress.

867
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 6: Anyway, speaking of playing that was playing playing dirty. I

868
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 6: have friends who do professional go karting, and by professional

869
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 6: I mean they go to a go cart place and

870
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 6: try to beat their high score every once a week.

871
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 3: Oh my god, bowling arcade.

872
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,919
Speaker 6: And it reminds me like now that we're coming into

873
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 6: like the Easter season, the Easter Show was happening, the

874
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 6: amount of friends who want to go to the Easter Show,

875
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 6: because I think we're.

876
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 3: All just craving a big play together.

877
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, I miss theme parks.

878
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 4: Theme parks are the OG for me as a kid,

879
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 4: like the og play environment, and nothing compares like a

880
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 4: an escape room isn't.

881
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 5: A theme park. It's trying to be a theme parks.

882
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 3: You don't like an escape room?

883
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 4: I look, I do, but it's just sometimes I'm like,

884
00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:59,720
Speaker 4: I would be happy to get dinner.

885
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: I have thoughts about that, Claire Stevens, because I think

886
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 1: it's really interesting. I think that the whole like the

887
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: young people want to have fun is great. I think

888
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: we're living as we've discussed all the time. It's scary

889
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: out there, like hope fun play sounds like good, good idea.

890
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: But I had the same reaction as you, you know,

891
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 1: when you went eh. I had the same reaction. And

892
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 1: then I realized that I am a person who actively

893
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: does not like organized fun. Yeah, And I was like,

894
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: why is that? So I went and asked the robots,

895
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: because you know, they know things. I was like, what

896
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: can you tell me about people who like organized fun

897
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 1: and people who don't like organized fun? So an example

898
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: of this would be, you know, there's a work day

899
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 1: and someone goes, let's have a treasure hunt, let's have

900
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 1: laser tag, let's have whatever, and everyone else like, can't

901
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 1: we just drink? Although I can see the problems with

902
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: me wrong, And I found out that it is a

903
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: type of people situation. So if you're apparently a type

904
00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: so real type A people really like organized fun because

905
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: they're often high achievers who find it difficult to just relax,

906
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: So structure is a permission slip to do that. Right,

907
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: So that makes sense. I don't need ye, I'm not

908
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: a person. I'm a type B person for sure. People

909
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: who score really highly in conscientiousness, so good good girls,

910
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: good boys are typically organized, dependable, and disciplined. So they

911
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: like organized fun because they like the they appreciate the

912
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,399
Speaker 1: effort that everybody put into planning it, and they see

913
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: the structure as a way to ensure a goal gets achieved.

914
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: So they like that too, right, And I just think

915
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: that it's probably about what kind of person you are,

916
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,320
Speaker 1: whether or not you like organized fun. Does that strike

917
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:42,919
Speaker 1: you as true?

918
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 5: Yeah?

919
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 4: The thing is with an escape room, it's like the

920
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 4: best part of an escape room is not actually the

921
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 4: escape room. It's you know, the things you learn on the.

922
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 5: People hate, Yeah, it's but it's the friendships.

923
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 4: And when I did a murder Mystery night a little

924
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 4: while ago, it was like the murder mystery night itself,

925
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 4: like the structure of it fell apart very quickly, But

926
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 4: what was fun was all the human stuff around it.

927
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 4: So I actually get that that it's the structure that

928
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 4: then facilitates the play. What I don't like is when

929
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 4: play requires physical skills that I don't have. And the

930
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 4: problem is I am like not particularly coordinated, I'm not

931
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 4: very strong, I'm quite sensitive.

932
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:28,720
Speaker 5: I am not.

933
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: You're also very competitive and I'm very It's not like

934
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: you're going to go and just be like, let's just

935
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 1: roll with this.

936
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 6: So you wouldn't do an evil situationship boxing rape, no, because.

937
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 4: I would be frustrated that I wasn't good at it.

938
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 5: And that's like ladser Tag.

939
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 4: I did laser Tag and I almost cried because I

940
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 4: was like, something is not working and it's not fair

941
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 4: somebody intervene paused the game.

942
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: It's just really fun. Claire was bringing the fun that day,

943
00:46:58,800 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 1: but this isn't.

944
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was like somethings.

945
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 4: I feel like my gun is like not working and

946
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 4: I'm really bad at this and I haven't been like

947
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 4: shown appropriately and that's not fun for me.

948
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: Who can I blame?

949
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 4: Yeah?

950
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 1: Are you an organized fun person?

951
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 6: If I can just argue with the robots for two seconds?

952
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 6: My family is an organized fun family to the point

953
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 6: where other people who are having events will employ my

954
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 6: family to do the organization of fun. So my family

955
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 6: love hosting. They always have big dinner parties. They love it.

956
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:34,879
Speaker 6: You think you're going to the house and you're having

957
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 6: drinks and dinner and a fun time. No, we're playing

958
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 6: pictionary at eight pm while you're eating your mutton curry.

959
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 6: Like they ambush you with fun. And what I've noticed

960
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 6: is that my mom will never stand down on fun

961
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 6: like she always has. If she has a headset on

962
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 6: playing a game, We're playing a game everyone's taking.

963
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 1: Home and it will be fun and it will enjoy it.

964
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 6: And then she gets out the pictionary board or she

965
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 6: starts doing charat. She starts first playing like just by herself,

966
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 6: and then people join in and see the eye rolls

967
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 6: and the moans, and people leave to get a drink

968
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 6: and leave to talk outside and have a smoke outside.

969
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 6: And then slowly people are like, oh, I'm hearing a

970
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 6: lot of laughter from a lounge room. This looks like fun.

971
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,760
Speaker 6: Every single person ends up playing, and every single person

972
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 6: ends up having fun.

973
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: So it's often I can see that I can picture

974
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 1: in my head, and I think it's often the case

975
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: that people like me who go, oh, I don't want to.

976
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 1: I don't want to like I don't like being a

977
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: bristol against being told that I have to do this

978
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: and sit there and do that. But you're right is

979
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 1: that if I get over myself and my bullshit, then

980
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: I'll have a really good time.

981
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 3: And had the way You're not going to be sitting

982
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 3: there going oh, I'm just going to play and.

983
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:40,959
Speaker 2: Be like that's.

984
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 1: I would, And also I would be fucking great situationship

985
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:53,879
Speaker 1: ex wrestling race. He would it would? I think we've

986
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: come to the end of our Monday show, a little

987
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: bit big show, loose and see bit whatever it.

988
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 6: Had energy, Yeah, Wednesday thoughts, it was like.

989
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: A Monday show with a dash of Wednesday, a sprinkle

990
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: of Friday exactly. Anyway, out loud as, thank you as

991
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 1: always for being here with us. We really really appreciate it.

992
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:15,959
Speaker 1: Who wants to tell everyone about the excellent brand news

993
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:16,359
Speaker 1: we have.

994
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 4: From now until April one, which anything on the first

995
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 4: of April always sounds like it's a.

996
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 5: Joke, but this isn't a joke. It's real serious.

997
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: And also April one is Wednesday, very sounesday.

998
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 4: You can get twenty five percent off an annual subscription.

999
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 4: Plus all MAMMYA subscribers get twenty five percent off Nala

1000
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 4: underwear and we love Nalla underwear, so that is two

1001
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 4: reasons for you to subscribe. And there's a link in

1002
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:44,800
Speaker 4: the show notes.

1003
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 1: And of course a massive thank you to our brilliant

1004
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 1: team for putting this together. Oh remember everybody, if you're

1005
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 1: listening on Apple Podcasts, you can watch as well. Bye

1006
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: Bye Bye

1007
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 6: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on

1008
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 6: which we have recorded this podcast.