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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to Mama Mia out Loud. It's what

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Speaker 3: women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the third of September.

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Speaker 3: I'm Holly Wainwright.

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Speaker 2: I'm Jesse Stevens, I'm Amelia Lester, and yesterday I forced

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Speaker 2: you to to sit down with me and a Terra

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Speaker 2: card reader. Yes you did, Stephens for a special upcoming

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Speaker 2: out Loud episode, and I think we're going to put

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Speaker 2: some of it as a subscriber episode because yeah, there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of content.

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Speaker 3: A bit private. I'm feeling very relaxed today because I

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Speaker 3: sort of feel like my future future, Holly, like it's

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Speaker 3: all set, it's all take care of. I don't need

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Speaker 3: to worry anymore. Like the good things, the bad things,

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Speaker 3: it's just going to happen.

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Speaker 1: I can just sit back the opposite. Really, I had

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Speaker 1: a really strong reaction to it, which I unparck with

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Speaker 1: you guys.

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Speaker 2: She said some really interesting things about Maya, some really

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Speaker 2: accurate things. I can't stop thinking about it.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so that's next week's excitement. But here's what's on

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Speaker 3: our agenda for today.

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Speaker 1: There was a brief period this weekend where a lot

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Speaker 1: of the world thought that Donald Trump had died. Now

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Speaker 1: he hasn't died, but the rumors around his health have

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Speaker 1: not gone away. And I'm going to give you three

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Speaker 1: reasons why.

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Speaker 2: And a sudden rise in rudeness. New research indicates retail

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Speaker 2: workers are in the firing line and we want to

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Speaker 2: work out why.

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Speaker 3: And another royal fiance is about to take the infamous

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Speaker 3: battle moral test.

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Speaker 2: Would you pass it?

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Speaker 3: Spoiler alert?

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Speaker 1: No? But first, in case you missed it, the compliment

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Speaker 1: sandwich is stale.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 1: This was a management technique that was developed in the eighties.

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Speaker 1: It was meant to soften the blow of negative feedback.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like the one thing everyone knows about

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Speaker 1: managing people. Yes, or maybe it's just be Let me

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Speaker 1: give you an example of how it plays out. This

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Speaker 1: is from an article on fizz dot org. The compliment

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Speaker 1: is the bread roger. Your input at the client meeting

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Speaker 1: was invaluable. The feedback is the meat. You've been showing

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Speaker 1: up late and leaving early. It's impacting your deliverables. And

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Speaker 1: then the bread again the compliment, but that last report

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Speaker 1: you created excellent work.

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Speaker 2: And I don't, as Roger, I feel manipulated. I feel

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Speaker 2: as though I've not even heard either of the compliments.

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Speaker 2: Now know, you just wanted to give me feedback and

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Speaker 2: the other stuff was just decorative.

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Speaker 1: All Roger heard from that is you're leaving work early

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Speaker 1: and it's impacting your deliverables. And he ends up more

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Speaker 1: resentful than if you hadn't pushed it, because you can

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Speaker 1: tell that you're patronizing him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and don't get me wrong Roger's problem. I mean,

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Speaker 2: Roger's doing a shit job.

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Speaker 3: He's doing a good job, sometimes not such a great job.

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Speaker 1: And a good job.

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Speaker 2: No, but the way the compliment sandwich works like you're

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Speaker 2: told to do it regardless. So this is what I mean,

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Speaker 2: is that when people give me compliments either like they're

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Speaker 2: not real, they just want to give you bad feedback.

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Speaker 1: No, this is the research, Holli. There is research here,

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Speaker 1: and it shows that when you hear a compliment in

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Speaker 1: this way, you're already bracing for the negative feedback. So

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Speaker 1: you hear the first nice bit and you're like, what

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Speaker 1: are you about to tell me? And then this makes

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Speaker 1: employees feel more aggrieved than if you just delivered it

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Speaker 1: to them straight. So shall I tell you what to

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Speaker 1: do instead? Yes? Please. What you're meant to do instead

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Speaker 1: is aim for candor. Now, this is a hard word.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to even really know how to get there.

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Speaker 1: But I'm going to give you a couple of tips

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Speaker 1: in how to be more straightforward at work. The first

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Speaker 1: is practice your first line when you're going to deliver

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Speaker 1: some tough news. So someone just actually get a first

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Speaker 1: line in your head, because it really sets the tone.

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Speaker 3: This is my first line for Roger. Nice of you

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Speaker 3: to show up today.

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Speaker 1: It's very candid, very candid. Secondly, show you care about

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Speaker 1: the person. Do you care about Roger probably not? Do

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Speaker 1: you care about his deliverables? Yes? And end with an

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Speaker 1: agreement a plan on the way forward.

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Speaker 2: It's definitely a lot more honest. And in the past

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Speaker 2: when I've been hurt by feedback, it's because I have

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Speaker 2: felt that that person has been holding onto the feedback

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Speaker 2: for a while.

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Speaker 3: That's a big mistake.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you just think, well, now I'm embarrassed. If

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Speaker 2: you just said it, then I would have just addressed

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Speaker 2: it and it would have hurt at the time, but

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Speaker 2: I would have moved on.

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Speaker 3: Right. I'm playing a tiny violin here for managers, because

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Speaker 3: I've been one, I was one for a lot of years.

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Speaker 1: Did you use compliment Sandwiches sometimes?

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Speaker 3: Definitely. Yes. Humans are messy and annoying, right, all of

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Speaker 3: us are. So the problem with what exactly what you

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Speaker 3: just expressed, Jesse, is that you only hear the negative

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Speaker 3: not the positive. Is really annoying for managers because the

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Speaker 3: thing about all of you and me and everybody is

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Speaker 3: that sometimes we're good and sometimes we're not, and we're

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Speaker 3: good at some things, and so all of it's true.

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Speaker 3: The compliment's true, the negative bit's true, and the other

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Speaker 3: compliment's true as well. But it's smart to get rid

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Speaker 3: of the compliment Sandwich for the reasons you've already said

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Speaker 3: that people only hear the negative ones. And they say

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Speaker 3: that what you should do is you should just give

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Speaker 3: real time feedback all all the time. Yeah, but that

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Speaker 3: is really exhausting because you're the managers usually in most

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Speaker 3: organizations also have a job to do. It's rare that

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Speaker 3: they're only managing, so they've got to be like doing

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Speaker 3: their job and constantly for giving you the feedback. And

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Speaker 3: then we all know, working in a big group of

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Speaker 3: young women that if you're a manager and you ever

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Speaker 3: say to anyone I need to have a word with.

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Speaker 2: You, oh my goodness, then everybody.

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Speaker 3: Freaks out and everybody gets upset. If you put a

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Speaker 3: meeting in someone's calendar, everybody, So what are you supposed

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Speaker 3: to do? But it's a note unwinnable situation. When I

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Speaker 3: was coming up in management, all that psychometric testing stuff

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Speaker 3: was really hot. You know, are you an inter? Are

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Speaker 3: you an extrovert? Are you an X Y Z, blue,

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Speaker 3: yellow pink? And the theory was you can't manage everyone

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Speaker 3: the same. You have to manage people differently because some

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Speaker 3: people respond really well to direct feedback and it shuts

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Speaker 3: some people down. This is all very tiring.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to make a proposal. Okay, So we can't

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Speaker 1: do the compliment sandwich. What about the open faced feedback

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Speaker 1: where you pair a difficult piece of feedback with a

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Speaker 1: nice thing. That's all they think of, a chabato with

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Speaker 1: some tuna on top. Maybe in some papers.

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Speaker 2: Like what kind of nice thing?

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Speaker 1: Like hey, I really like that shirt, Jesse, But what's

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Speaker 1: up with your deliverable?

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Speaker 3: Exactly? That's just a shit sep with It's a melt.

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Speaker 1: It's a toast.

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Speaker 3: It's a toasty I like that, that's a smash burger,

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Speaker 3: which is just like Roger. For sake, it's eleven o'clock,

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Speaker 3: So really.

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Speaker 2: Pretty aggressive chatter tonight on on acts that President Trump

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Speaker 2: might be gone.

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Speaker 1: Many have predicted that a Donald Trump twenty twenty five

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Speaker 1: health event would be the defining story of this year.

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump's death.

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Speaker 3: We're going to find out once and for all informedutes, Amelia.

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Speaker 3: I only have one question today, because it's on every

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Speaker 3: screen I look at. Is Donald Trump dying?

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Speaker 1: Well, we're all dying, Holly. Was that not enough of

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Speaker 1: a compliment?

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Speaker 3: Sandwich?

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Speaker 1: Brutal feedback, But there is some evidence that Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: is maybe dying quite fast or is not in good health.

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Speaker 1: And before anyone comes at me for speculating about the

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Speaker 1: health of a poor old man, I want to lay

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Speaker 1: on the table that in twenty twenty Donald Trump posted

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Speaker 1: on social media that Joe Biden had been executed and

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Speaker 1: replaced by robots. So I think he's fair game to discuss.

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Speaker 1: I want to point out that he's the most powerful

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Speaker 1: person in the world by many metrics. We know less

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Speaker 1: about his health than just about any other president in

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Speaker 1: recent history.

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Speaker 2: When we did speak to the Caracard reader and this

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Speaker 2: was off Mike. She said that, yes, while we're all dying,

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Speaker 2: she said, it is not imminent. So there's our prediction

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Speaker 2: for the day.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's great. I have some more actual reasons, so

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Speaker 1: let me explain first why people thought he was dying.

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Speaker 1: This past weekend. I was actually getting my nails done,

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Speaker 1: and then I was browsing the internet, and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, I noticed that everyone who I know in Washington,

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Speaker 1: DC was saying that there was a rumor going around

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Speaker 1: that he was dead.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, and really like legitimate, like you're smart

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Speaker 3: journalist friends.

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Speaker 1: Yes, everyone was convinced. So here are the reasons why

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Speaker 1: he wasn't seen for three days, which is unusual for.

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Speaker 3: Him always on presidency.

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Speaker 1: He didn't have plans to go away to one of

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Speaker 1: his golf courses for the long weekend which the US

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Speaker 1: just had, which is again very unusual for him. And then,

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Speaker 1: and my favorite of the reasons is his vice president JD. Vance.

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Speaker 1: He gave this really weird interview last week where he

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Speaker 1: said that if a terrible tragedy were to befall his boss,

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Speaker 1: he JD. Vance was ready to step in It was

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Speaker 1: kind of like that internet meme where it's like no

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Speaker 1: one colon JD Van.

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Speaker 3: I reckon Trump's got a shits out of which coming

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Speaker 3: from JD pretty quickly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So overnight Australia time, we got a press conference

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Speaker 1: from Trump, so we know he's not dead. He was

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Speaker 1: talking about space force and it was clearly a proof

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Speaker 1: of life conference because no one cares about space force,

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Speaker 1: least of all Donald Trump. But he had to show

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Speaker 1: us that he was in fact still alive. So he

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Speaker 1: isn't dead. But here are three reasons why Trump is

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Speaker 1: still on death watch. The first, his hands have been

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Speaker 1: really bruised for months.

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Speaker 2: I keep seeing this and then articles about what foundation

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Speaker 2: he's using to cover them.

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Speaker 1: The wrong shade, the wrong shade.

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Speaker 3: He's never worn the right shade of foundation in his life, Amelia.

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Speaker 3: Why would he start now with the han.

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Speaker 1: You're not meant to test fundation on your hand anyway.

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Speaker 1: You went to the side of your faceline. Maybe he

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Speaker 1: went to Sephora, who knows. But the reason his press

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Speaker 1: secretary is given for the bruising is that he shakes

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Speaker 1: a lot of hands, and he's shaken more hands than

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Speaker 1: any other president. She said, And that has led to

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Speaker 1: some bruising.

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Speaker 3: Look, there's a tiny bit of legitimacy in that, because

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Speaker 3: Trump would definitely be one of those dudes who prided

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Speaker 3: himself on a hat shake, and he'd be like, I

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Speaker 3: judge a man by a handshake, one of those guys,

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Speaker 3: So now they'd be like a competitive.

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Speaker 1: Dealreak his hands. The bruises are covering that hands.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't seem real to me, Scar Ivy, don't you think

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Speaker 3: like ivy import that's what doctors. But that could also

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Speaker 3: be fittermin feet like it could be dying like you

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Speaker 3: know anyway.

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Speaker 1: Second reason, his ancles are very swollen, very swollen.

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Speaker 2: When have we seen his ankles.

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Speaker 1: All the time.

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Speaker 3: Maybe he's pregnant with the girl, really really swollen at

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Speaker 3: the end of my pregnancy.

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Speaker 1: His official doctor says this is because he has basically

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Speaker 1: benign leg vein issue. But also, I do need to

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Speaker 1: mention that people in the Trump White House have a

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Speaker 1: history of lying. Remember when we were told he had

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Speaker 1: the biggest inauguration crowd of all time. Yeah, that's the

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Speaker 1: second reason. Third reason, this is a man who loves

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Speaker 1: a routine. He does everything according to habit, and lately

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Speaker 1: his routine has really been off running through a few things.

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Speaker 1: He hasn't been wearing his trademark big red tie, you know,

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Speaker 1: the big red tie. He's been wearing his big red

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Speaker 1: hats in the Oval Office in the White House. And

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Speaker 1: we all know that he feels very strongly about the

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Speaker 1: dress code in the Oval office. That's right, as Ukrainian

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Speaker 1: President Zelenski discovered when he did not wear a suit there.

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Speaker 1: And Trump has been avoiding the press, which is really

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Speaker 1: unlike him. He loves talking. Maybe the weirdest thing of all,

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Speaker 1: there was footage this weekend of some giant black rubbish

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Speaker 1: bags being thrown out of a second floor window at

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Speaker 1: the White House. Really weird because those windows famously don't

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Speaker 1: open for security reasons. Michelle Obama has complained that when

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Speaker 1: she lived in the White House she couldn't open the

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Speaker 1: windows for security reasons, and now we're seeing these giant

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Speaker 1: black rubbish bags being thrown out. So he was asked

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Speaker 1: about this at the press conference, and he just lied.

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Speaker 1: He said that this video was AI. It's not AI.

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Speaker 1: It was taken on like multiple people's phones, So we

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Speaker 1: don't know what that's about, and I don't have answers

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Speaker 1: on it all but I do want to say that

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Speaker 1: he's the oldest person to ever be sworn in as president.

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Speaker 1: He's seventy nine, and he eats four burgers and the

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Speaker 1: chocolate milkshake a night. He eats two fi little fishes

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Speaker 1: and two big macs. So I don't think this is

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Speaker 1: a completely outlandish line.

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Speaker 2: I think couldn't he just because I must say, even

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Speaker 2: in the press conference, and there is something within me

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Speaker 2: that feels uncomfortable speculating about death, not in this context

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Speaker 2: because the headlines just were unavoidable over the weekend, but

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Speaker 2: you can see the glee on social media of people

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Speaker 2: almost championing someone's death.

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Speaker 1: I want to stop you there for a second and say,

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Speaker 1: what's interesting is that there weren't headlines in the big,

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Speaker 1: reputable press outlets. So it's interesting to compare this to

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Speaker 1: how the press covered Joe Biden's cognitive to that was

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Speaker 1: something that we heard a lot about last year, a

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Speaker 1: lot of speculation about his health. He was eventually sort

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Speaker 1: of pushed to step down and not run again for

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Speaker 1: president because people thought he wasn't healthy enough, And none

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Speaker 1: of the big news outlets covered this whole weird death

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Speaker 1: rumor that happened over the weekend.

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Speaker 3: Surely because it is just conspiracy stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but the Biden stuff was covered in a completely

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Speaker 1: different way, and I don't know why that is. I

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Speaker 1: think it's because we've come to expect erratic behavior from Trump.

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Speaker 1: We've come to expect strangeness. The trash bags just feels

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Speaker 1: like another chapter in the strangeness of this presidency.

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Speaker 2: He did seem though, in that press conference that he

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Speaker 2: did overnight. He seemed low energy. He just seemed a

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Speaker 2: little bit off. And maybe that's because of what we've

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Speaker 2: heard over the last few days. But could the man

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Speaker 2: not just have the flu? That's what I kept thinking,

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Speaker 2: is he's seventy nine years old, exactly, you can get

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Speaker 2: knocked around by it. He's probably not one hundred percent, but.

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Speaker 1: He called though, Jesse. The bruising has been happening for months,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, the bruising and the swollen ankles have been

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Speaker 1: happening since the start of the year as well. And

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Speaker 1: the fact that he's not talking to the press and

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Speaker 1: sort of dialing back his commitments.

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Speaker 3: My main takeaway from this, I've got to change my

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Speaker 3: Maca's order because I like a fill it of fish

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Speaker 3: and I don't want to have anything in common with.

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Speaker 2: Donald in a moment, the sudden rise in rudeness will

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Speaker 2: tell you about the new research that proves you're not

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Speaker 2: imagining it. In case you missed it, actor and rapper

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Speaker 2: Will Smith is on a comeback tour and when he

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Speaker 2: shared videos on Instagram from his recent performances, viewers noticed

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Speaker 2: that something was a little bit off. So he's promoting

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Speaker 2: he's based on a true story tour and sharing footage

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Speaker 2: with captions like, my favorite part of tour is seeing

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Speaker 2: you all up close. The only problem is that when

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Speaker 2: people zoomed in on this footage of the mass crowds,

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Speaker 2: they found a number of unnatural elements. So we're talking

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Speaker 2: people with extra fingers, distorted faces, inconsistent hand shapes, which

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Speaker 2: are all hallmarks of AI generated content. Like even the

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Speaker 2: thing that I noticed was just a blurring of faces

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Speaker 2: almost into each other. It was really unusual. And there's

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Speaker 2: one viral screenshot of a man holding a sign and

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Speaker 2: the sign reads you can make it. That's a Will

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Speaker 2: Smith song helped me survive cancer. Thanks Will. And what's

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Speaker 2: weird is that this man's knuckles blur into the a

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Speaker 2: four piece of papers holding even weird to hold an

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Speaker 2: a four piece of paper. The woman in front, her

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Speaker 2: hand is part of the sign, and her bracelet is

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Speaker 2: also someone else's headband. Look, it's just all a bit off.

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Speaker 3: It's Kate Middleton photoshop skills.

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Speaker 2: It's really bad. And while Smith's team hasn't confirmed it,

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Speaker 2: experts think this is a result of something called upscaling,

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Speaker 2: which is a type of AI enhancement where you can

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Speaker 2: make something look like they are sort of more humans

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Speaker 2: in the shot, and you can even make people look

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Speaker 2: more excited. Smith did eventually spawned a few days ago

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Speaker 2: by sharing footage from a concert and when it pans

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Speaker 2: to the crowd, they're just all cats.

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Speaker 3: This is a dream, recurrent dream I have, Like when

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Speaker 3: we were on the out Loud toy panned to the crowd,

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Speaker 3: it's just all.

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Speaker 2: Cats and clearly it's just like, oh, this is AI.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: But Holly, you went back and watched the original videos,

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Speaker 2: did you notice to the naked eye that it was

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Speaker 2: a I know not the first time I was just

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Speaker 2: in the like it was fun.

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Speaker 3: I was like yeah, and then when it was pointed

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Speaker 3: out to me, I was like, oh yeah, yeah. My

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Speaker 3: generous take, if one should have a generous take about

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Speaker 3: Will Smith because I look to see if ticket, because

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Speaker 3: he's just on this really quite odd tour of England

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Speaker 3: to strange places, like just a few dates but like

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Speaker 3: yeah to Scarborough Beach, which is just not somewhere where

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Speaker 3: generally speaking people play. But they did all sell out,

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Speaker 3: so it's not like there was an embarrassing dearth of enthusiasm.

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Speaker 3: But I relate maybe, like real people are very unsatisfying

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Speaker 3: in their appearance enthusiasm, whether or not they're holding up

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Speaker 3: signs and credit you were saving that life.

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Speaker 1: So justin Timberlake really needed this for his Katy Perry.

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Speaker 2: Katy Perry did, and I thought like, well, if this

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Speaker 2: is possible, then I wonder if with our out loud tours,

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Speaker 2: because you know, a big part of publicity is to

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Speaker 2: communicate your bigness, like you need everyone to know how

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Speaker 2: big and important and what a vibe you are. Like

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Speaker 2: if we're in our theater and then you just zoom

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Speaker 2: out as eras to her, like, can't we just mash

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Speaker 2: in the eras to a stadium? And then even in

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Speaker 2: a podcast context, it's like, Holly, sometimes you don't laugh

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Speaker 2: enough for my jokes. I'm thinking that we just dial

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Speaker 2: that up by forty fifty.

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Speaker 3: My head is like it hatches open, like yeah yeah,

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Speaker 3: and you've.

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Speaker 2: Got eight fingers. Turn around and Melie as a cat.

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Speaker 2: And this is actually terrifying. A piece in the Sydney

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Speaker 2: Morning Herald over the weekend by Jacqueline Maylee asks retail

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Speaker 2: work are copying more abuse, but why. Last week, Woolworth's

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Speaker 2: reported a twenty six percent increase in violent incidents at

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Speaker 2: its stores over the past year, and the Australian Retailers

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Speaker 2: Association has released data that says eighty seven percent of

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Speaker 2: retail workers report experiencing verbal abuse and fifty one percent

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Speaker 2: report experiencing physical abuse. The reason this caught my attention

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Speaker 2: is because I've definitely noticed this unusual thing lately, which

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Speaker 2: is that every time I call my doctor or my

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Speaker 2: phone provider or an airline, I get a sort of

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Speaker 2: an automated message telling me to be respectful and courteous

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Speaker 2: and basically if I'm not, then the call will be terminated.

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Speaker 2: And that feels new. I don't feel like that was happening.

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Speaker 3: And lots of actual signs and shops, yes, see that

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Speaker 3: all the time now in Bunnings, in wherever you go

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Speaker 3: that say police treat our stuff with respect, zero tolerance.

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Speaker 3: That also feels new.

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Speaker 2: It does feel new, and I always think like that

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Speaker 2: happened in Money's the other day, and I thought, who's

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Speaker 2: yelling at this woman behind the counter? Like, I've definitely

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Speaker 2: noticed this as something that is suddenly everywhere. Mainly offers

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Speaker 2: some theories in her article, Amelia, what do you think

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Speaker 2: is behind this measurable increase in general rudeness but also

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Speaker 2: towards retail workers? What's going on?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, these stats are so startling to think about how

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Speaker 1: widespread it is. I worked in retail for many years,

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Speaker 1: many years ago, and I never endured this kind of abuse.

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Speaker 1: Things have changed, and I think there's a couple of

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Speaker 1: obvious reasons why. I mean, the world is darker now,

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Speaker 1: it's scarier, We pick up our phones and estimated two

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Speaker 1: hundred and five times a day, we're clearly always distracted

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Speaker 1: and stressed, and there's obviously absolutely no excuse for rudeness.

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Speaker 1: But I want to put on the table that maybe

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Speaker 1: part of this is not the customer's fault. It's to

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Speaker 1: do with the employer, and it's to do with the

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Speaker 1: way that in the pursuit of shareholder value, employers are

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Speaker 1: consistently cutting corners, their workforces are smaller than before, or

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Speaker 1: workers are being forced to do more with less, and

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Speaker 1: that's leading to understandable frustration on the part of customers.

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Speaker 1: One interesting concept that I came across is the idea

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Speaker 1: of sludge. Have you ever heard of this idea? Now?

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Speaker 1: This refers to the way that call centers, in particular

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Speaker 1: actually set up to frustrate us when we call them.

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Speaker 1: This is a thing that companies want to do to

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Speaker 1: create friction between the customer and the thing that the

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Speaker 1: customer wants, which will cost them money. So some examples

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Speaker 1: in an article about sludge and the Atlantic recently were

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Speaker 1: Toyota in the US was found by a consumer corporation

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Speaker 1: to have set up a hotline for people who wanted

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Speaker 1: to access certain products and services that was actually just dead.

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Speaker 1: You could never actually reach a person on this hotline

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Speaker 1: that they had set up. Another example is that you

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Speaker 1: might find that you get accidentally hung up on by

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Speaker 1: a call center. Has that ever happened? Turns out that

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Speaker 1: that's sometimes not accidental. There is evidence that companies are

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Speaker 1: doing this to style me getting what we want from them.

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Speaker 3: And then you if you do get to a person.

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Speaker 2: You are furious, you're furious, and you've also dehumanized whoever's

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Speaker 2: on the other end because you've been speaking to robots.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's what I wondered about this too, is that

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Speaker 3: if you think about some customer service, and again I

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Speaker 3: don't want to like, I don't know about people who

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Speaker 3: are abusing workers, and certainly not in any violent or

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Speaker 3: extra of course not. But because we have automated so much,

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Speaker 3: I wonder if there's some kind of connection now in

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Speaker 3: that we're like, we're used to robots being able to

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Speaker 3: do these jobs, so it's almost like a real person

435
00:20:42,502 --> 00:20:46,341
Speaker 3: who's doing a retail job. We've almost devalued their humanity

436
00:20:46,381 --> 00:20:48,661
Speaker 3: because we're like, well I can just beep past you,

437
00:20:48,661 --> 00:20:50,502
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Yeah, I also say that's

438
00:20:50,542 --> 00:20:50,821
Speaker 3: the thing.

439
00:20:50,942 --> 00:20:53,782
Speaker 2: I also wonder, like your first port of call with

440
00:20:54,022 --> 00:20:57,141
Speaker 2: most businesses is a chatbot, now, right, And so you

441
00:20:57,182 --> 00:20:59,782
Speaker 2: go to your chatbot who you talk to. It's not

442
00:20:59,861 --> 00:21:02,741
Speaker 2: very satisfying getting angry at a chatbot because you just

443
00:21:02,782 --> 00:21:04,542
Speaker 2: get this blankness.

444
00:21:04,222 --> 00:21:07,821
Speaker 1: And they're rarely satisfying. No, will rarely get you what

445
00:21:07,861 --> 00:21:08,422
Speaker 1: you want.

446
00:21:08,422 --> 00:21:10,502
Speaker 2: Yes, And so you escalate, you escalate, And I have

447
00:21:10,581 --> 00:21:13,141
Speaker 2: been in that situation I was thinking recently about and

448
00:21:13,182 --> 00:21:16,901
Speaker 2: I have never raised my voice lost it at some because,

449
00:21:17,182 --> 00:21:18,701
Speaker 2: and you need to say it to yourself, you go,

450
00:21:18,901 --> 00:21:21,141
Speaker 2: don't shoot the messenger. If you're angry at the corporation.

451
00:21:21,222 --> 00:21:23,061
Speaker 2: It is not this person's fault who you've ended up.

452
00:21:23,182 --> 00:21:26,461
Speaker 2: Imagine what that person has copped. But I remember I

453
00:21:26,502 --> 00:21:28,701
Speaker 2: had an issue with an airline. It was one hundred

454
00:21:28,782 --> 00:21:32,901
Speaker 2: percent their fault, and I was so annoyed and I

455
00:21:32,942 --> 00:21:35,941
Speaker 2: got hung up on hours and hours on the phone,

456
00:21:35,982 --> 00:21:38,381
Speaker 2: promises that they'd call me back, an email that got ignored.

457
00:21:38,422 --> 00:21:40,782
Speaker 2: All of that By the time you get onto the person,

458
00:21:41,422 --> 00:21:45,382
Speaker 2: I didn't feel like the person was empathetic or apologetic

459
00:21:45,542 --> 00:21:47,942
Speaker 2: or anything like that wasn't the person's fault what had happened.

460
00:21:48,502 --> 00:21:52,022
Speaker 2: But at that point you can see how people's frustrations

461
00:21:52,061 --> 00:21:54,181
Speaker 2: would rise to such a point that they act in

462
00:21:54,222 --> 00:21:58,341
Speaker 2: a way that's incredibly antisocial and rude, which again isn't

463
00:21:58,381 --> 00:22:02,581
Speaker 2: an excuse. But when something's happening on such a cultural level,

464
00:22:03,022 --> 00:22:06,381
Speaker 2: there are clearly a number of factors that are contributing

465
00:22:06,381 --> 00:22:06,621
Speaker 2: to it.

466
00:22:06,742 --> 00:22:10,142
Speaker 1: The other pillar in sludge is actually that workers are

467
00:22:10,141 --> 00:22:14,861
Speaker 1: not empowered to do anything about complaints and they're actually

468
00:22:14,982 --> 00:22:18,461
Speaker 1: told to try and prevent you from reaching up the

469
00:22:18,542 --> 00:22:21,262
Speaker 1: tree of power to get to someone who can actually

470
00:22:21,262 --> 00:22:22,141
Speaker 1: do something for you.

471
00:22:22,262 --> 00:22:25,262
Speaker 2: And sometimes like they're not even allowed to acknowledge, they're

472
00:22:25,262 --> 00:22:29,621
Speaker 2: not allowed fault, which is a trap for them, which

473
00:22:29,661 --> 00:22:32,022
Speaker 2: I think as well with even if you're in your supermarket,

474
00:22:32,621 --> 00:22:36,502
Speaker 2: and the number one contributing factor to sort of incivility

475
00:22:37,022 --> 00:22:40,861
Speaker 2: is stress and so cost of living, all of those things.

476
00:22:40,861 --> 00:22:44,982
Speaker 2: If you walk into your local shopping center, you're struck

477
00:22:45,262 --> 00:22:48,941
Speaker 2: by how expensive things are, you feel manipulated, you feel

478
00:22:48,942 --> 00:22:52,662
Speaker 2: hard done by, and your only connection to that brand,

479
00:22:53,182 --> 00:22:55,662
Speaker 2: which you can tell. And even with the airline thing,

480
00:22:55,782 --> 00:22:58,381
Speaker 2: I'm going, I know how much profit you made, Like

481
00:22:58,661 --> 00:23:01,861
Speaker 2: in my head, I'm thinking that, and I'm going, you

482
00:23:01,942 --> 00:23:04,061
Speaker 2: actually don't care if I'm a customer or not. The

483
00:23:04,101 --> 00:23:06,861
Speaker 2: way that you're being treated, I think it's then like

484
00:23:06,942 --> 00:23:11,862
Speaker 2: the front line of that business are often young casual employees,

485
00:23:11,942 --> 00:23:14,502
Speaker 2: might be their first job, and then they're copying it.

486
00:23:14,661 --> 00:23:17,501
Speaker 3: Well, that's the problem because all these things are very valid,

487
00:23:17,581 --> 00:23:20,621
Speaker 3: you know reasons, and they're saying obviously COVID played a

488
00:23:20,661 --> 00:23:23,022
Speaker 3: part in this too, and the suspicion and distrust that

489
00:23:23,061 --> 00:23:26,302
Speaker 3: were seeded around that. I also wonder if now, because

490
00:23:26,341 --> 00:23:28,941
Speaker 3: we're so used to researching and buying on our phones,

491
00:23:28,982 --> 00:23:31,661
Speaker 3: we almost also have a really high level of expectation

492
00:23:31,821 --> 00:23:33,821
Speaker 3: of customer service in a way in a place where

493
00:23:33,821 --> 00:23:36,502
Speaker 3: we're like, why can't you give me twenty five options

494
00:23:36,542 --> 00:23:38,781
Speaker 3: about all the things? But doctors deal with this all

495
00:23:38,821 --> 00:23:41,821
Speaker 3: the time, for example, health professionals where people walk into

496
00:23:41,861 --> 00:23:44,581
Speaker 3: their surgeries or clinics and they're like, well, I've already googled,

497
00:23:44,581 --> 00:23:46,061
Speaker 3: and I know the twenty five things that are wrong

498
00:23:46,101 --> 00:23:47,222
Speaker 3: with me, So what do you know? You know what

499
00:23:47,262 --> 00:23:48,901
Speaker 3: I mean? I think there's that's an element too, But

500
00:23:49,022 --> 00:23:52,061
Speaker 3: whatever the causes are, as Mainly writes in that column,

501
00:23:52,381 --> 00:23:56,182
Speaker 3: the facts are that retail workers skew female and young

502
00:23:56,462 --> 00:23:59,542
Speaker 3: right overwhelmingly. And she writes at the end, which is

503
00:23:59,542 --> 00:24:01,621
Speaker 3: something I can relate to and very much agree with

504
00:24:01,661 --> 00:24:04,222
Speaker 3: that what's a real shame about this is often where

505
00:24:04,262 --> 00:24:06,861
Speaker 3: people do their first jobs. Not entirely, it's not at

506
00:24:06,901 --> 00:24:09,982
Speaker 3: all correct that retail workers are sort of part time

507
00:24:09,982 --> 00:24:12,982
Speaker 3: teenage jobs. They are often female jobs because they're flexible

508
00:24:13,422 --> 00:24:15,102
Speaker 3: and you can get different time shifts and all those

509
00:24:15,182 --> 00:24:17,742
Speaker 3: kind of things. But for young people it's often their

510
00:24:17,782 --> 00:24:20,502
Speaker 3: first port of call for employment and dealing with people,

511
00:24:20,821 --> 00:24:23,542
Speaker 3: and it's always been thought that it's an excellent experience,

512
00:24:23,581 --> 00:24:25,581
Speaker 3: which I very much agree with. My daughter has a

513
00:24:25,661 --> 00:24:28,902
Speaker 3: job like this in that they learn quickly what's expected

514
00:24:28,901 --> 00:24:31,302
Speaker 3: of them, how to deal with difficult people, you know,

515
00:24:31,341 --> 00:24:33,582
Speaker 3: all of those things, and that's great, but that if

516
00:24:33,621 --> 00:24:37,022
Speaker 3: this incivility continues to rise and rise, that will be

517
00:24:37,061 --> 00:24:38,861
Speaker 3: something that people don't want their kids to do, so

518
00:24:38,901 --> 00:24:41,141
Speaker 3: they'll pull them out of that if they can afford to,

519
00:24:41,581 --> 00:24:44,822
Speaker 3: which is a loss in itself, but also it's giving

520
00:24:45,302 --> 00:24:47,821
Speaker 3: a whole lot of people a very skewed idea in

521
00:24:47,861 --> 00:24:50,222
Speaker 3: a way of what the world is like because you're

522
00:24:50,262 --> 00:24:52,982
Speaker 3: dealing all the time with a level of stress and abuse.

523
00:24:53,022 --> 00:24:55,061
Speaker 3: Well maybe you're not. Maybe you're giving them an accurate,

524
00:24:55,101 --> 00:24:57,782
Speaker 3: brutal picture of what the world is like, but having

525
00:24:57,782 --> 00:25:00,821
Speaker 3: to deal all the time with really stressed out people.

526
00:25:00,942 --> 00:25:02,662
Speaker 3: I have to say, I live in a small town

527
00:25:02,702 --> 00:25:06,341
Speaker 3: and I think that regional shopping experiences are really different.

528
00:25:06,861 --> 00:25:08,742
Speaker 3: I know all the people who work in the shops

529
00:25:08,782 --> 00:25:11,502
Speaker 3: near me. They all know each other's names. And it's

530
00:25:11,542 --> 00:25:13,501
Speaker 3: interesting because the kids I know who work in those

531
00:25:13,581 --> 00:25:16,142
Speaker 3: kind of shops, they can tell the difference immediately between

532
00:25:16,502 --> 00:25:18,702
Speaker 3: local people and tourists in the way they speak to them,

533
00:25:18,821 --> 00:25:21,221
Speaker 3: which is, I'm not like being I don't mean to

534
00:25:21,262 --> 00:25:23,581
Speaker 3: be like city country divide on that, but there's like

535
00:25:24,022 --> 00:25:26,581
Speaker 3: what I mean about that. It's about the humanization piece.

536
00:25:26,702 --> 00:25:29,902
Speaker 3: Like you speak differently to somebody who you see every day,

537
00:25:29,982 --> 00:25:31,782
Speaker 3: you kind of know a little bit, or you can

538
00:25:31,861 --> 00:25:33,941
Speaker 3: relate to in some way or whatever, which is our

539
00:25:34,022 --> 00:25:36,141
Speaker 3: own prejudices. Of course, then you do. If it's just

540
00:25:36,222 --> 00:25:38,542
Speaker 3: like this is I'm never going to see you again.

541
00:25:38,901 --> 00:25:41,302
Speaker 3: I don't care about this exchange. I just need what

542
00:25:41,341 --> 00:25:42,661
Speaker 3: I want, and I need it now well.

543
00:25:42,661 --> 00:25:45,741
Speaker 1: And also, small businesses have different kinds of imperatives to

544
00:25:45,782 --> 00:25:48,742
Speaker 1: these large corporations we're talking about. I wanted to suggest

545
00:25:48,782 --> 00:25:51,821
Speaker 1: there are two ways to counteract the sludge with the corporations,

546
00:25:51,901 --> 00:25:55,061
Speaker 1: which is really what the sludge concept refers to. The

547
00:25:55,101 --> 00:25:57,421
Speaker 1: first is this idea of having an ad midnight. You

548
00:25:57,462 --> 00:25:59,942
Speaker 1: get together friends that you don't see often enough, and

549
00:26:00,061 --> 00:26:02,022
Speaker 1: you all make the calls that you've been putting after

550
00:26:02,141 --> 00:26:05,581
Speaker 1: the insurance company, to the telecom company, to the electricity people.

551
00:26:05,661 --> 00:26:06,381
Speaker 3: Oh that's interesting.

552
00:26:06,381 --> 00:26:08,382
Speaker 1: You have some drinks and you just take your time

553
00:26:08,422 --> 00:26:09,182
Speaker 1: on the whole, so you.

554
00:26:09,182 --> 00:26:12,101
Speaker 3: Make it like a positive experience exactly, and then you

555
00:26:12,141 --> 00:26:15,581
Speaker 3: can bitch to each other as well, and.

556
00:26:16,742 --> 00:26:19,182
Speaker 1: Well the other ones. My personal life hack which I'm

557
00:26:19,262 --> 00:26:22,462
Speaker 1: loath to even share, but it really has changed things

558
00:26:22,462 --> 00:26:25,262
Speaker 1: for me when I am battling a large corporation, which

559
00:26:25,341 --> 00:26:29,661
Speaker 1: unfortunately happens more often than you might want. Instead of

560
00:26:29,702 --> 00:26:32,462
Speaker 1: fighting with someone who has not been given any power

561
00:26:32,502 --> 00:26:34,702
Speaker 1: to change things for me or get me what I want,

562
00:26:35,222 --> 00:26:38,022
Speaker 1: I go to the people who actually have the power.

563
00:26:38,302 --> 00:26:41,341
Speaker 1: So I google who's in charge, who's the chief customer officer,

564
00:26:41,422 --> 00:26:44,901
Speaker 1: who's the person who actually needs to report to the

565
00:26:44,982 --> 00:26:48,182
Speaker 1: powerful people about how they're treating customers, and I write

566
00:26:48,182 --> 00:26:48,782
Speaker 1: them an email.

567
00:26:49,101 --> 00:26:49,742
Speaker 2: Does it work?

568
00:26:50,061 --> 00:26:51,701
Speaker 1: It's sort of a weaponized charentization.

569
00:26:52,821 --> 00:26:54,821
Speaker 3: I didn't want to raise the K word because people

570
00:26:54,821 --> 00:26:57,702
Speaker 3: get very upset when we do. But there's a little rise.

571
00:26:57,502 --> 00:27:00,782
Speaker 1: Of a charent No, no, no, there's an example of it. Well,

572
00:27:00,901 --> 00:27:03,341
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, the way that we're being treated by

573
00:27:03,341 --> 00:27:06,101
Speaker 1: big corporations, we have to be able to fight back.

574
00:27:06,222 --> 00:27:09,262
Speaker 1: And one example is a big corporation was meant to

575
00:27:09,302 --> 00:27:12,302
Speaker 1: come and install a dishwasher for me, full of like

576
00:27:12,542 --> 00:27:14,941
Speaker 1: very boring things that happened along the way that made

577
00:27:14,942 --> 00:27:17,621
Speaker 1: me waste two days of my life waiting for this dishwasher,

578
00:27:17,621 --> 00:27:20,181
Speaker 1: and the dishwasher was still not there. So I emailed

579
00:27:20,182 --> 00:27:23,302
Speaker 1: the chief customer officer, and then the very next day

580
00:27:23,341 --> 00:27:25,302
Speaker 1: someone came and saw the dishwasher and I was not

581
00:27:25,381 --> 00:27:26,381
Speaker 1: charged for the installation.

582
00:27:27,702 --> 00:27:32,901
Speaker 2: I also I found the COVID argument interesting because I

583
00:27:33,022 --> 00:27:37,501
Speaker 2: read this research that said that epidemics all throughout history

584
00:27:37,621 --> 00:27:41,581
Speaker 2: have contributed to a coarsening of society. So it changes

585
00:27:41,621 --> 00:27:43,742
Speaker 2: society not for a year, not for two years, but

586
00:27:43,782 --> 00:27:46,381
Speaker 2: for a really long time. And they said that there's

587
00:27:46,462 --> 00:27:50,422
Speaker 2: decades of social damage from each pandemic, and then it's

588
00:27:50,462 --> 00:27:53,821
Speaker 2: often inherited from kids, whether that's a distrust of authority

589
00:27:54,061 --> 00:27:57,141
Speaker 2: or institutions, or feeling like you were forced to do

590
00:27:57,141 --> 00:28:00,382
Speaker 2: something you didn't want to, the isolation, the anxiety that

591
00:28:00,621 --> 00:28:02,861
Speaker 2: I think has changed us. And so even though I

592
00:28:02,861 --> 00:28:05,381
Speaker 2: don't think COVID is the whole story, I think that

593
00:28:05,502 --> 00:28:08,742
Speaker 2: explains why it also appears to be a global phenomenon,

594
00:28:08,782 --> 00:28:10,782
Speaker 2: because there are a reports like this all over the world.

595
00:28:11,621 --> 00:28:15,342
Speaker 3: After the break a potential princess, she's not really a princess,

596
00:28:15,341 --> 00:28:17,102
Speaker 3: but it just sounds good, so I'm going with it.

597
00:28:17,381 --> 00:28:20,462
Speaker 3: A potential princess is taking a very serious test for

598
00:28:20,542 --> 00:28:24,302
Speaker 3: the castle in Scotland right now? Can anyone pass it? One?

599
00:28:24,422 --> 00:28:28,181
Speaker 2: Unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday and

600
00:28:28,262 --> 00:28:32,741
Speaker 2: Thursday exclusively for Muma MAA subscribers. Follow the link in

601
00:28:32,782 --> 00:28:35,022
Speaker 2: the show notes to get us in your ears five

602
00:28:35,101 --> 00:28:37,582
Speaker 2: days a week, and a huge thank you to all

603
00:28:37,621 --> 00:28:39,942
Speaker 2: our current subscribers.

604
00:28:44,582 --> 00:28:49,181
Speaker 3: Do not unpack your own bags. Only drink from one

605
00:28:49,222 --> 00:28:53,502
Speaker 3: side of your glass. Stop eating as soon as the

606
00:28:53,542 --> 00:28:57,062
Speaker 3: host has stopped eating, and whatever you do, do not

607
00:28:57,422 --> 00:29:01,182
Speaker 3: put the milk in first. Right now, a forty five

608
00:29:01,222 --> 00:29:04,181
Speaker 3: year old English nurse is being tested by her future

609
00:29:04,222 --> 00:29:08,221
Speaker 3: in laws about whether she can hack royal life. You

610
00:29:08,262 --> 00:29:09,542
Speaker 3: know what I'm talking about, don't you?

611
00:29:09,622 --> 00:29:11,142
Speaker 2: That lady you talked about the other way.

612
00:29:11,302 --> 00:29:15,862
Speaker 3: Yes, she is Harriet Spurling and she is the fiance

613
00:29:16,062 --> 00:29:19,062
Speaker 3: of Princess Ann's son, Peter Phillips. Now he's not a prince.

614
00:29:19,062 --> 00:29:23,622
Speaker 3: He could be, but Princess Anne famously said, not fancy titles,

615
00:29:23,661 --> 00:29:27,062
Speaker 3: not for my kids. And this is Peter's second marriage.

616
00:29:27,102 --> 00:29:30,302
Speaker 3: Her kids are generally credited with being pretty normal. I

617
00:29:30,302 --> 00:29:32,862
Speaker 3: mean they're not that normal. His first wedding was subject

618
00:29:32,902 --> 00:29:34,622
Speaker 3: to a four hundred page spread and hello, but they're

619
00:29:34,661 --> 00:29:38,502
Speaker 3: quite quite normal anyway. He and Harriet got engaged earlier

620
00:29:38,542 --> 00:29:41,382
Speaker 3: this year and he's taken her up to Balmoral for

621
00:29:41,422 --> 00:29:43,741
Speaker 3: the summer. Now, if you don't know what Balmral is,

622
00:29:44,182 --> 00:29:46,502
Speaker 3: or you do, but you know vaguely, it's where the

623
00:29:46,582 --> 00:29:49,102
Speaker 3: Royal summer. You know how fancy people they don't go

624
00:29:49,142 --> 00:29:50,142
Speaker 3: on holiday this summer?

625
00:29:50,342 --> 00:29:53,622
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, is there a nice nice body of water there?

626
00:29:53,862 --> 00:29:57,262
Speaker 3: I've obviously never been because he's inviting me, but it

627
00:29:57,382 --> 00:30:00,582
Speaker 3: is famously stunning. It was the Queen's favorite place. In fact,

628
00:30:00,582 --> 00:30:01,262
Speaker 3: she died there.

629
00:30:01,342 --> 00:30:02,742
Speaker 2: So is it near the Cottwalt?

630
00:30:03,102 --> 00:30:07,701
Speaker 3: God no, it's in Scotland's but oh yeah, So this

631
00:30:07,782 --> 00:30:10,661
Speaker 3: isn't summer like land around Paul in a bikini. This

632
00:30:10,782 --> 00:30:14,622
Speaker 3: is not that's not the Hampton. God no, it's like

633
00:30:14,862 --> 00:30:15,782
Speaker 3: so the Royal.

634
00:30:17,062 --> 00:30:18,582
Speaker 1: Should I should doubt it, aparol.

635
00:30:18,742 --> 00:30:22,622
Speaker 2: I don't think so, because sounds.

636
00:30:23,382 --> 00:30:29,582
Speaker 3: Because this is the thing, is the Royal? If they did,

637
00:30:29,702 --> 00:30:32,622
Speaker 3: I love that. I hope that Harriet is asking for

638
00:30:32,661 --> 00:30:36,582
Speaker 3: one right now. Because so they summer there, which means

639
00:30:36,622 --> 00:30:38,862
Speaker 3: they go in late July. Apparently they stay till September,

640
00:30:38,942 --> 00:30:41,742
Speaker 3: and all of the senior royals and junior royals and

641
00:30:41,782 --> 00:30:44,461
Speaker 3: some world leaders and some important people are expected to

642
00:30:44,542 --> 00:30:47,102
Speaker 3: turn up for a portion of the time, okay, which

643
00:30:47,142 --> 00:30:49,262
Speaker 3: is annoying if you're a young royal and you'd rather

644
00:30:49,302 --> 00:30:51,942
Speaker 3: be on a yacht in centrepe But these days they'll

645
00:30:51,942 --> 00:30:53,982
Speaker 3: probably go and do their yacht centrepez and then they

646
00:30:53,982 --> 00:30:56,181
Speaker 3: have to turn up to Balmrel for a few days.

647
00:30:56,302 --> 00:30:59,102
Speaker 3: Prince Harry is very gushing about bell Moral in his book.

648
00:30:59,222 --> 00:31:03,422
Speaker 3: It's obviously a very special private place for them. Right anyway,

649
00:31:03,502 --> 00:31:06,181
Speaker 3: All that sounds lovely, but there is a thing called

650
00:31:06,222 --> 00:31:07,822
Speaker 3: the bell Moral Test. It was the title of a

651
00:31:07,822 --> 00:31:12,102
Speaker 3: Crown episode in one of the late seasons. Yeah, because

652
00:31:12,382 --> 00:31:15,062
Speaker 3: if you are entering the royal family, you get taken

653
00:31:15,102 --> 00:31:18,022
Speaker 3: there for the first time for your summer weekend. Obviously

654
00:31:18,102 --> 00:31:19,942
Speaker 3: used to be with Queen Elizabeth, now with the King

655
00:31:20,422 --> 00:31:23,421
Speaker 3: and Camilla. You get taken there and it's like like

656
00:31:23,582 --> 00:31:28,542
Speaker 3: any family, there are weird traditions, but in British aristocracy,

657
00:31:28,622 --> 00:31:32,222
Speaker 3: and particularly at this level, there is so much unspoken

658
00:31:32,342 --> 00:31:33,781
Speaker 3: etiquette that you have to know.

659
00:31:33,942 --> 00:31:36,742
Speaker 2: So was Meghan's subject to the baumarl head.

660
00:31:36,782 --> 00:31:40,181
Speaker 3: She was and apparently. So Apparently Princess Dinna passed with

661
00:31:40,222 --> 00:31:42,421
Speaker 3: flying Colors, and it was one of the big reasons

662
00:31:42,462 --> 00:31:44,062
Speaker 3: why the rest of the family is very happy for

663
00:31:44,102 --> 00:31:46,502
Speaker 3: her to marry, in which we all know how that ended.

664
00:31:46,862 --> 00:31:51,022
Speaker 3: Catherine pasted Flying Colors. Apparently Fergie did not. Fergie did

665
00:31:51,022 --> 00:31:54,382
Speaker 3: not go well, World Leaders go, Apparently Margaret Thatcher failed massively,

666
00:31:54,902 --> 00:31:58,022
Speaker 3: Meghan went And there isn't a lot of detail, including

667
00:31:58,062 --> 00:32:00,221
Speaker 3: in Harry's book, about exactly how that went. But when

668
00:32:00,262 --> 00:32:01,781
Speaker 3: I'm about to tell you what I'm about to tell you,

669
00:32:01,782 --> 00:32:05,022
Speaker 3: I think we can all guess, right. So, for example,

670
00:32:05,222 --> 00:32:06,941
Speaker 3: I want you to think about what you'd pack in

671
00:32:06,982 --> 00:32:09,262
Speaker 3: a weekend bag if you knew that someone else was

672
00:32:09,342 --> 00:32:12,502
Speaker 3: under packing and putting away all your clothes. For example,

673
00:32:12,742 --> 00:32:14,022
Speaker 3: you'd probably buy all new nickers.

674
00:32:14,022 --> 00:32:16,702
Speaker 1: Wouldn't add some new socks because I don't think holes

675
00:32:16,742 --> 00:32:18,701
Speaker 1: are cutting it, and with all the rain there, I

676
00:32:18,782 --> 00:32:20,261
Speaker 1: need some properable socks.

677
00:32:20,661 --> 00:32:24,302
Speaker 3: So it's very uncool to unpack your back. So the

678
00:32:24,382 --> 00:32:26,461
Speaker 3: valet will do that for you. So you take your

679
00:32:26,462 --> 00:32:28,302
Speaker 3: case and you leave it with them. So when you're packing,

680
00:32:29,062 --> 00:32:30,502
Speaker 3: just think about that, because they.

681
00:32:30,422 --> 00:32:32,942
Speaker 1: Talk and this is going to be a packing situation,

682
00:32:33,142 --> 00:32:36,221
Speaker 1: just thinking where you probably need to change for dinner, right, So.

683
00:32:36,182 --> 00:32:39,182
Speaker 3: You definitely need to change for dinner, So formal wear

684
00:32:39,222 --> 00:32:42,102
Speaker 3: for dinner, right, There'll be probably a ball or two

685
00:32:42,102 --> 00:32:44,461
Speaker 3: while you're there. That's infamously a very big ball at

686
00:32:44,462 --> 00:32:44,741
Speaker 3: the end.

687
00:32:44,782 --> 00:32:46,422
Speaker 2: So a down for my weekend?

688
00:32:46,542 --> 00:32:48,181
Speaker 3: You do maybe with a target?

689
00:32:48,742 --> 00:32:50,822
Speaker 1: Jean's okay when I'm going on a ramble.

690
00:32:50,982 --> 00:32:54,302
Speaker 3: Apparently jeans are okay these days. A tartan skirt is

691
00:32:54,382 --> 00:32:58,702
Speaker 3: preferred and sensible hefty shoes, but jeans.

692
00:32:58,382 --> 00:33:00,422
Speaker 1: Are actually wheezed.

693
00:33:01,942 --> 00:33:05,421
Speaker 3: If no tracking pack, no soft pants, Amelia, your soft

694
00:33:05,462 --> 00:33:06,422
Speaker 3: pants are not well.

695
00:33:06,582 --> 00:33:09,022
Speaker 1: I know Megan bought a pair of elevated sweatpants.

696
00:33:09,022 --> 00:33:12,622
Speaker 2: Definitely, if I wanted to go for a morning walk

697
00:33:13,142 --> 00:33:15,862
Speaker 2: or to do perhaps a little a spot of morning pilates,

698
00:33:15,902 --> 00:33:17,222
Speaker 2: could I bring my workout clothes.

699
00:33:18,382 --> 00:33:22,182
Speaker 3: Can you imagine and I'm sorry to channel me and now,

700
00:33:22,222 --> 00:33:25,582
Speaker 3: but I'm going to can you imagine bumping into Camilla?

701
00:33:25,862 --> 00:33:27,902
Speaker 3: Well maybe Camilla might be down with it, but can

702
00:33:27,902 --> 00:33:30,782
Speaker 3: you imagine bumping into Princess Catherine in the hallway with

703
00:33:30,822 --> 00:33:35,022
Speaker 3: your cameltoe out? Jesse? Exercise Stase, No, keep that to yourself.

704
00:33:35,342 --> 00:33:38,782
Speaker 3: Although actually in spare Harry talks about how you would

705
00:33:38,822 --> 00:33:40,862
Speaker 3: have to be careful opening his dad's door because he

706
00:33:40,902 --> 00:33:43,382
Speaker 3: was often doing a yoga head stand against it. That

707
00:33:43,502 --> 00:33:48,822
Speaker 3: was apparently one of the details that was that was

708
00:33:48,862 --> 00:33:51,342
Speaker 3: one of the details that would see this particularly traitorous

709
00:33:51,342 --> 00:33:53,302
Speaker 3: to share. So pilarates, okay.

710
00:33:53,062 --> 00:33:54,942
Speaker 2: But in your own in my room with the dogs

711
00:33:54,982 --> 00:33:56,382
Speaker 2: in your own room, intwued.

712
00:33:56,942 --> 00:33:58,862
Speaker 3: Must like dogs because there'll be millions of them, but

713
00:33:58,982 --> 00:34:01,741
Speaker 3: must not object to shooting other animals. That is an

714
00:34:01,782 --> 00:34:04,022
Speaker 3: important part of your weekend.

715
00:34:04,142 --> 00:34:06,742
Speaker 2: So you can't just be in the background going you've

716
00:34:06,742 --> 00:34:08,181
Speaker 2: got to shoot deer.

717
00:34:08,102 --> 00:34:13,862
Speaker 1: Stack flexibility here because Kate, Princess Kate is famously allergic

718
00:34:13,942 --> 00:34:18,102
Speaker 1: to horses, and so I'm sure that she's permitted to

719
00:34:18,142 --> 00:34:20,462
Speaker 1: not have to go near horses for the weekend.

720
00:34:20,622 --> 00:34:24,021
Speaker 3: That had a great excuse not to go and shove

721
00:34:24,142 --> 00:34:26,942
Speaker 3: your head in a dead stage. Harry talks about that

722
00:34:26,982 --> 00:34:28,622
Speaker 3: in his book. He says that when he shot his

723
00:34:28,661 --> 00:34:31,301
Speaker 3: first stag, it was like a ride of passage, and

724
00:34:31,342 --> 00:34:33,261
Speaker 3: that one of the aides who talk about there he

725
00:34:33,302 --> 00:34:35,142
Speaker 3: had to shove his face in the guts of the

726
00:34:35,181 --> 00:34:36,862
Speaker 3: stag and get the blood all over your face, and

727
00:34:36,902 --> 00:34:38,181
Speaker 3: then you're not allowed to wash it for the rest

728
00:34:38,221 --> 00:34:40,261
Speaker 3: of the day they're with. These people are out there.

729
00:34:41,302 --> 00:34:42,622
Speaker 2: I thought my in laws were weird.

730
00:34:42,781 --> 00:34:44,382
Speaker 3: Back to this when you sit down for dinner, so

731
00:34:44,542 --> 00:34:46,902
Speaker 3: for a starter, and this will be very tricky for

732
00:34:46,942 --> 00:34:50,341
Speaker 3: both of you. No diamonds before six. Okay, if you've

733
00:34:50,342 --> 00:34:53,102
Speaker 3: got your jewelry with you, you cannot wear it before six,

734
00:34:53,142 --> 00:34:54,261
Speaker 3: but you can wear it after six.

735
00:34:54,342 --> 00:34:55,381
Speaker 2: Ok okay ye.

736
00:34:55,902 --> 00:34:58,502
Speaker 3: No tiara to that ball we mentioned, unless you're married.

737
00:34:58,902 --> 00:35:03,182
Speaker 3: So Harriet, I'm sure she has a bag full of tiaras.

738
00:35:03,422 --> 00:35:05,022
Speaker 2: She's like, not you, Harriet.

739
00:35:05,142 --> 00:35:07,382
Speaker 3: Only married ladies are allowed to wear tiaras.

740
00:35:07,422 --> 00:35:10,221
Speaker 1: I'm a heel's vulgar, like a you know, like, what

741
00:35:10,261 --> 00:35:11,301
Speaker 1: are we thinking is the.

742
00:35:11,542 --> 00:35:14,902
Speaker 3: High heels of vulgar? So apparently every dinner, every dinner

743
00:35:14,942 --> 00:35:17,422
Speaker 3: is formal and for the women, that preferably means a

744
00:35:17,462 --> 00:35:21,502
Speaker 3: skirt and stockings. Infamously, even this week, Meghan spoke on

745
00:35:21,502 --> 00:35:23,462
Speaker 3: a podcast about how she had to wear stockings like

746
00:35:23,622 --> 00:35:27,622
Speaker 3: panty stock but too dressy. Up. He is not great,

747
00:35:27,701 --> 00:35:30,301
Speaker 3: so not like sky high heels and like you know

748
00:35:32,502 --> 00:35:33,341
Speaker 3: that kind of thing.

749
00:35:33,462 --> 00:35:35,782
Speaker 2: Do you think we get to wear like a statement

750
00:35:35,862 --> 00:35:37,741
Speaker 2: eye with an eyelash strip or not?

751
00:35:39,942 --> 00:35:42,022
Speaker 3: I think what you're probably not allowed to do is

752
00:35:42,062 --> 00:35:45,942
Speaker 3: call down and say where's my clam squad. You're probably

753
00:35:45,942 --> 00:35:49,102
Speaker 3: not allowed to say that, all right, you probably won't

754
00:35:49,102 --> 00:35:50,861
Speaker 3: be making your own tea, let's be honest. But if

755
00:35:50,902 --> 00:35:53,542
Speaker 3: you were never ever, ever put the milk.

756
00:35:53,661 --> 00:35:55,782
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's wrong with that? You said that before.

757
00:35:55,862 --> 00:35:59,781
Speaker 3: So it's an infamous British snobbery thing and there's a

758
00:35:59,902 --> 00:36:03,701
Speaker 3: debate about this, but there's famously Evelin war Ode about this.

759
00:36:03,781 --> 00:36:06,462
Speaker 3: He said, nannies and governesses will put the milk in

760
00:36:06,582 --> 00:36:10,502
Speaker 3: first to tea, right, but anyone from the drawing room

761
00:36:10,542 --> 00:36:13,622
Speaker 3: above so like above stairs, the posh people think that's

762
00:36:13,741 --> 00:36:17,862
Speaker 3: very much a faux pa. And that apparently milkin first

763
00:36:17,942 --> 00:36:22,741
Speaker 3: or MIF is code for common, so you might say,

764
00:36:22,781 --> 00:36:25,501
Speaker 3: for example, and the queen apparently, you know, God rest

765
00:36:25,502 --> 00:36:29,062
Speaker 3: her soul, was like, she's a bit MIF, isn't she.

766
00:36:29,661 --> 00:36:33,741
Speaker 1: I've got a question coffee because I need coffee.

767
00:36:33,542 --> 00:36:35,582
Speaker 2: And like a barista made with an oat milk.

768
00:36:35,701 --> 00:36:37,661
Speaker 3: I've gone deep on this because it wouldn't we all

769
00:36:39,181 --> 00:36:42,302
Speaker 3: there is so bow Moral is open to the public

770
00:36:42,342 --> 00:36:44,181
Speaker 3: for a large part of the year because it's so

771
00:36:44,261 --> 00:36:47,181
Speaker 3: fancy and it's so enormous and at that time they

772
00:36:47,221 --> 00:36:49,422
Speaker 3: do have barristas on staff, like that you can go

773
00:36:49,502 --> 00:36:51,502
Speaker 3: into the you know at the gift shop and have

774
00:36:51,582 --> 00:36:53,542
Speaker 3: a little sandwich and a scon and you can have

775
00:36:53,542 --> 00:36:56,382
Speaker 3: a freshly made coffee. But the chefs who've worked at

776
00:36:56,422 --> 00:36:59,261
Speaker 3: bow Moral say that there is no barista who is

777
00:36:59,302 --> 00:37:02,382
Speaker 3: so I think that probably someone could rustle you up

778
00:37:02,422 --> 00:37:03,982
Speaker 3: a coffee, but you probably don't want to be the

779
00:37:04,022 --> 00:37:05,821
Speaker 3: person who's asking.

780
00:37:05,542 --> 00:37:08,261
Speaker 1: And it might be instant coffee exactly.

781
00:37:07,822 --> 00:37:10,341
Speaker 3: Oh dear, it probably would be. I want to ask

782
00:37:10,382 --> 00:37:12,502
Speaker 3: you what you think about the table etiquette. Right, So,

783
00:37:13,302 --> 00:37:15,661
Speaker 3: even on a non formalish evening, you have to enter

784
00:37:15,661 --> 00:37:19,702
Speaker 3: the dining room in succession order, which means that Peter

785
00:37:19,862 --> 00:37:23,622
Speaker 3: and Harriet are nineteenth in line if everyone's there.

786
00:37:23,661 --> 00:37:25,861
Speaker 1: But let's face, it's got to be potatoes left.

787
00:37:26,942 --> 00:37:29,582
Speaker 3: It's not there, so he's probably further to the front

788
00:37:29,582 --> 00:37:31,102
Speaker 3: of the kitsen that. But you have to enter in

789
00:37:31,181 --> 00:37:31,941
Speaker 3: succession order.

790
00:37:31,982 --> 00:37:33,582
Speaker 1: You've got to line up for dinner.

791
00:37:33,502 --> 00:37:35,661
Speaker 3: You have to well to walk in and then it's

792
00:37:35,661 --> 00:37:38,341
Speaker 3: not a buffet. That would be weird, but buffets are

793
00:37:38,422 --> 00:37:42,622
Speaker 3: very calm. Seating a sign seating absolutely and I didn't

794
00:37:42,622 --> 00:37:44,582
Speaker 3: know this, but maybe you did, Amelia, because I'm sure

795
00:37:44,582 --> 00:37:47,022
Speaker 3: you go to fancy your dinners. To me, the rules

796
00:37:47,062 --> 00:37:49,622
Speaker 3: are you're not allowed to talk across the table. So

797
00:37:49,741 --> 00:37:53,381
Speaker 3: say you're King Charles and I'm Harriet, who's like trying

798
00:37:53,382 --> 00:37:55,662
Speaker 3: to make a good impression on my uncle. I hoping

799
00:37:55,701 --> 00:37:58,582
Speaker 3: that's going to do well for me somewhere. I can't

800
00:37:58,622 --> 00:38:02,342
Speaker 3: just go. So, Charlie, how is the deer killing today?

801
00:38:02,382 --> 00:38:04,542
Speaker 3: Although I don't know that he's into that. You must

802
00:38:04,582 --> 00:38:07,301
Speaker 3: not talk across the table, and you must never instigate

803
00:38:07,302 --> 00:38:09,501
Speaker 3: conversation with the monarch. You have to wait to be asked.

804
00:38:09,902 --> 00:38:10,582
Speaker 1: That's interesting.

805
00:38:10,622 --> 00:38:12,022
Speaker 3: So you talk to people on your left and right.

806
00:38:12,062 --> 00:38:13,502
Speaker 3: But the bit I wanted to know if you knew,

807
00:38:13,741 --> 00:38:16,942
Speaker 3: is apparently during the first course you speak to the

808
00:38:16,982 --> 00:38:21,542
Speaker 3: person on your left, and they're in the second course

809
00:38:21,661 --> 00:38:23,182
Speaker 3: you speak to the person on.

810
00:38:23,102 --> 00:38:25,062
Speaker 1: Your I did not know that. The only thing I

811
00:38:25,102 --> 00:38:28,102
Speaker 1: know about dinner party etiquette is the Larry David line

812
00:38:28,142 --> 00:38:30,542
Speaker 1: about middling, like you've got to be a good middle

813
00:38:30,542 --> 00:38:33,102
Speaker 1: at a dinner party if you're in between two people,

814
00:38:33,181 --> 00:38:35,181
Speaker 1: if you're a middle and you've got to step up

815
00:38:35,221 --> 00:38:35,942
Speaker 1: the conversation.

816
00:38:36,422 --> 00:38:38,982
Speaker 3: That's how Harry. It's a good middle only. Ever, do

817
00:38:39,022 --> 00:38:40,462
Speaker 3: you know I said only have a drink from one

818
00:38:40,502 --> 00:38:43,341
Speaker 3: side of your glass of cup? This is actually a

819
00:38:43,342 --> 00:38:46,142
Speaker 3: good tip, right because you know how you get lipstick

820
00:38:46,142 --> 00:38:49,582
Speaker 3: marks on things and they say like, we can't help that,

821
00:38:49,622 --> 00:38:52,422
Speaker 3: we're human, and even mouth marks. But lipstick marks and

822
00:38:52,462 --> 00:38:58,062
Speaker 3: mouth marks are very uncool, right, Like they're uncool, but

823
00:38:58,342 --> 00:39:00,701
Speaker 3: they're accepted because you've got to be dressed up, so

824
00:39:00,822 --> 00:39:03,062
Speaker 3: you just have to keep putting your lip in exactly

825
00:39:03,102 --> 00:39:05,341
Speaker 3: the same. I wasn't going to start sipping from the

826
00:39:06,062 --> 00:39:09,462
Speaker 3: but you might because you are the next taby pick

827
00:39:10,102 --> 00:39:11,582
Speaker 3: the next time, and then you've got them all the

828
00:39:11,582 --> 00:39:12,021
Speaker 3: way around.

829
00:39:12,062 --> 00:39:12,661
Speaker 1: That's common.

830
00:39:12,661 --> 00:39:14,382
Speaker 2: Do you think I could ask for a paper straw

831
00:39:15,302 --> 00:39:15,901
Speaker 2: that would help?

832
00:39:16,902 --> 00:39:21,301
Speaker 3: Famously only like drinking through a straw? Can I have

833
00:39:21,302 --> 00:39:21,622
Speaker 3: a straw?

834
00:39:21,661 --> 00:39:23,901
Speaker 2: And they'd be like madam, and I'd be like, can

835
00:39:23,902 --> 00:39:27,022
Speaker 2: I have a chill can of diet coke? Please?

836
00:39:27,382 --> 00:39:29,862
Speaker 3: A pinky finger in not out.

837
00:39:29,781 --> 00:39:31,182
Speaker 2: Out is bad?

838
00:39:32,261 --> 00:39:32,822
Speaker 1: Is good?

839
00:39:33,862 --> 00:39:37,502
Speaker 3: And apparently, as I say, do not engage with the

840
00:39:37,582 --> 00:39:40,902
Speaker 3: king under any circumstances unless he talks to you. Talk quietly.

841
00:39:41,302 --> 00:39:43,981
Speaker 3: Never eat with your fingers unless it's oysters or afternoon tea.

842
00:39:44,102 --> 00:39:46,982
Speaker 3: Do you feel prepared. Could you now go to quietly?

843
00:39:47,342 --> 00:39:49,461
Speaker 1: For what if I'm telling you a great store.

844
00:39:49,181 --> 00:39:51,382
Speaker 2: And they're all old, they can't hear anything.

845
00:39:51,542 --> 00:39:52,341
Speaker 3: You must not laugh.

846
00:39:52,781 --> 00:39:55,181
Speaker 1: How do I ask for the bathroom?

847
00:39:55,542 --> 00:39:57,902
Speaker 3: Well, ideally you shouldn't, but apparently what you should do

848
00:39:58,102 --> 00:40:01,382
Speaker 3: if you're if you're at the table and you certainly

849
00:40:01,502 --> 00:40:05,062
Speaker 3: need to go lactose whatever, Yeah, then you just say

850
00:40:05,221 --> 00:40:07,062
Speaker 3: excuse me and you go. But you must not under

851
00:40:07,062 --> 00:40:08,382
Speaker 3: any circumstances say.

852
00:40:08,261 --> 00:40:11,102
Speaker 2: I'm going going to I got away.

853
00:40:11,302 --> 00:40:13,701
Speaker 3: But you shouldn't ever say toilet. You can say lavatory

854
00:40:13,862 --> 00:40:17,542
Speaker 3: lou would be acceptable, but never toilet. Never say toilet.

855
00:40:17,822 --> 00:40:20,781
Speaker 2: See I reckon that all of us have done the

856
00:40:20,822 --> 00:40:23,702
Speaker 2: Bell moral test to some degree when we have tried

857
00:40:23,822 --> 00:40:29,222
Speaker 2: to assimilate into the culture of a new family very quickly.

858
00:40:29,261 --> 00:40:33,102
Speaker 2: Because you walk in and I'm thinking with a potential partner,

859
00:40:34,022 --> 00:40:37,382
Speaker 2: where you just scan and you go okay, How do

860
00:40:37,502 --> 00:40:40,582
Speaker 2: I not make a faux pas here? A friend of

861
00:40:40,622 --> 00:40:43,221
Speaker 2: mine said that she was at a potential partner's house

862
00:40:43,582 --> 00:40:46,582
Speaker 2: and washed her hands in the kitchen sink and used

863
00:40:46,701 --> 00:40:50,741
Speaker 2: the display teatowel to wipe them, not knowing it's like

864
00:40:50,781 --> 00:40:55,022
Speaker 2: an ironed fancy tea towel that is not to actually

865
00:40:55,261 --> 00:40:58,982
Speaker 2: be used like it's decorative, and everyone was like, oh, no,

866
00:40:59,102 --> 00:41:02,382
Speaker 2: you've completely you've completely screwed it. When I went to

867
00:41:02,902 --> 00:41:06,381
Speaker 2: Luca's family home for the first time, I coughed, and

868
00:41:06,462 --> 00:41:10,181
Speaker 2: you would know that in a house. I'm sure Maya

869
00:41:10,221 --> 00:41:14,781
Speaker 2: won't mind me calling her a crazy germaphot and Jay

870
00:41:14,942 --> 00:41:17,942
Speaker 2: like that fair are they just very serious about germs?

871
00:41:17,982 --> 00:41:20,622
Speaker 2: And I coughed. I probably I would have coughed into

872
00:41:20,622 --> 00:41:23,021
Speaker 2: my hand, I think, and then probably, you know, open

873
00:41:23,062 --> 00:41:28,582
Speaker 2: the fridge and touch what I could. Sorry, do you

874
00:41:28,622 --> 00:41:30,142
Speaker 2: have a display teatouse?

875
00:41:30,261 --> 00:41:30,582
Speaker 3: My man?

876
00:41:31,142 --> 00:41:33,741
Speaker 2: And definitely a faux pa, but I think we do that.

877
00:41:33,942 --> 00:41:35,582
Speaker 2: I can never work out. I still don't know in

878
00:41:35,622 --> 00:41:38,782
Speaker 2: Maya's house if we're shoes off, I think she's screwing

879
00:41:38,822 --> 00:41:40,622
Speaker 2: with me because every second time she has her shoes

880
00:41:40,661 --> 00:41:42,102
Speaker 2: off and then she has her shoes on, I'm like,

881
00:41:42,102 --> 00:41:42,982
Speaker 2: do I take my shoes off?

882
00:41:42,982 --> 00:41:45,662
Speaker 1: Holly? Did you face any Brents from New Zealand?

883
00:41:45,741 --> 00:41:46,341
Speaker 3: Right he's from.

884
00:41:46,661 --> 00:41:48,741
Speaker 1: Did you face any New Zealand customs?

885
00:41:48,942 --> 00:41:49,142
Speaker 2: No?

886
00:41:49,221 --> 00:41:52,741
Speaker 3: I didn't really because he didn't. You know. We were

887
00:41:52,781 --> 00:41:55,181
Speaker 3: all so old that the first time I went to

888
00:41:55,622 --> 00:41:59,862
Speaker 3: Mom's house actually she's I know I've told you this before,

889
00:41:59,902 --> 00:42:02,582
Speaker 3: but Brent's mom was a psychic, so she would like

890
00:42:02,661 --> 00:42:04,422
Speaker 3: read you when you walked in, and I would just

891
00:42:04,422 --> 00:42:07,422
Speaker 3: be like, oh my god, what energy am I giving?

892
00:42:07,462 --> 00:42:08,022
Speaker 1: You know?

893
00:42:08,261 --> 00:42:11,701
Speaker 3: But every family does have its really weird little cultures,

894
00:42:11,701 --> 00:42:13,502
Speaker 3: and you don't realize when you're a parent that you're

895
00:42:13,502 --> 00:42:18,221
Speaker 3: building them too, right. I remember that a partner of

896
00:42:18,261 --> 00:42:21,062
Speaker 3: my brothers once came round to dinner. She cleared the

897
00:42:21,062 --> 00:42:23,181
Speaker 3: table thinks she would be helpful, which, by the way,

898
00:42:23,302 --> 00:42:26,142
Speaker 3: balmeral rules never do that. Never offered a help and

899
00:42:26,542 --> 00:42:29,542
Speaker 3: apparently it's disrespectful to the staff. But we didn't have

900
00:42:29,582 --> 00:42:34,821
Speaker 3: any stuff. It wasn't disrespectful to anyone, except that there

901
00:42:34,902 --> 00:42:36,701
Speaker 3: was like a third of a bottle of wine left

902
00:42:36,701 --> 00:42:38,942
Speaker 3: in the wine at the table, and she tipped it

903
00:42:38,982 --> 00:42:41,102
Speaker 3: down and sink because she was like, well, obviously that's

904
00:42:41,142 --> 00:42:43,502
Speaker 3: going off if we save it. And my mom nearly

905
00:42:43,582 --> 00:42:44,221
Speaker 3: had a caniption.

906
00:42:44,502 --> 00:42:48,582
Speaker 1: I'm sorry notion of wine going off. Bring me your

907
00:42:48,661 --> 00:42:51,142
Speaker 1: fresh as wine. As Steve Carton wants said.

908
00:42:52,582 --> 00:42:55,821
Speaker 3: My mom was just like George just drugged and she

909
00:42:55,982 --> 00:42:57,222
Speaker 3: was like, what are you doing.

910
00:42:57,661 --> 00:42:58,861
Speaker 1: I'm with your mom on this.

911
00:42:58,982 --> 00:43:03,342
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Luca coming into my family. He thinks a

912
00:43:03,382 --> 00:43:06,781
Speaker 2: social event is complete after ninety minutes, and so he

913
00:43:06,862 --> 00:43:09,182
Speaker 2: tries to exit and goes, all right, the foods finished,

914
00:43:09,261 --> 00:43:11,221
Speaker 2: let's go. And I'm like, this is a multi day,

915
00:43:11,582 --> 00:43:15,262
Speaker 2: like we have only just begun. Sit down, have another drink,

916
00:43:15,302 --> 00:43:17,941
Speaker 2: and he's like, I opt out of this family. This

917
00:43:17,982 --> 00:43:19,422
Speaker 2: is far too intense.

918
00:43:19,701 --> 00:43:23,422
Speaker 1: When I had my first Christmas with my partner, it

919
00:43:23,462 --> 00:43:26,862
Speaker 1: was only our third date, so the steaks were quite high.

920
00:43:27,261 --> 00:43:30,062
Speaker 1: I bought my parents. He had his family.

921
00:43:29,741 --> 00:43:33,062
Speaker 2: There high level of difficulty difficulty.

922
00:43:33,902 --> 00:43:37,222
Speaker 1: Two things went wrong. The first thing is that after dinner,

923
00:43:37,261 --> 00:43:40,382
Speaker 1: his family are all very competitive and they play charades,

924
00:43:40,741 --> 00:43:45,942
Speaker 1: and my family would sooner do literally anything than participate

925
00:43:45,982 --> 00:43:47,102
Speaker 1: in organized games.

926
00:43:47,261 --> 00:43:49,102
Speaker 2: So that was there are games families, and not the

927
00:43:50,102 --> 00:43:51,622
Speaker 2: true exactly.

928
00:43:51,661 --> 00:43:54,862
Speaker 1: And then the second thing was his aunt is famously

929
00:43:55,221 --> 00:43:58,102
Speaker 1: very blunt. They're a bit more formal in some ways

930
00:43:58,102 --> 00:44:00,501
Speaker 1: than my family. And I did not wear the right

931
00:44:00,542 --> 00:44:03,902
Speaker 1: thing to Christmas dinner. I wore a long white sleeved

932
00:44:03,942 --> 00:44:06,702
Speaker 1: t shirt that I thought was very chic, very Carol

933
00:44:06,741 --> 00:44:10,701
Speaker 1: and Bessett Kennedy. Apparently it was giving active where and

934
00:44:11,102 --> 00:44:14,542
Speaker 1: she looked at me up and down and she said, well,

935
00:44:14,661 --> 00:44:18,182
Speaker 1: at least the boots are elegant, ah, which I actually

936
00:44:18,181 --> 00:44:22,221
Speaker 1: have to say is a great lie. So now we

937
00:44:22,261 --> 00:44:24,582
Speaker 1: say that to each other, Holly to the royals.

938
00:44:24,622 --> 00:44:26,542
Speaker 2: There are games family out there, well.

939
00:44:26,422 --> 00:44:29,342
Speaker 3: They are, but apparently monopoly is banned at Balmoral because

940
00:44:29,342 --> 00:44:31,741
Speaker 3: they get too competitive. It's caused too many problems.

941
00:44:31,822 --> 00:44:33,421
Speaker 2: It's too close to home because they really do.

942
00:44:33,462 --> 00:44:36,381
Speaker 3: Own exactly what do you mean I have to buyfair

943
00:44:36,462 --> 00:44:39,622
Speaker 3: all over again, Like, no, I'm not doing that. So yeah,

944
00:44:39,661 --> 00:44:42,261
Speaker 3: no they are. And at Christmas famously, although that's not

945
00:44:42,302 --> 00:44:45,062
Speaker 3: at bow Moral. That's a Sandringham down south. You get

946
00:44:45,062 --> 00:44:46,861
Speaker 3: weighed before and after dinner to make sure you've had

947
00:44:46,982 --> 00:44:50,261
Speaker 3: enough fun. Yeah, apparently apparently that went down really well

948
00:44:50,261 --> 00:44:52,502
Speaker 3: with Princess Diana. I can imagine.

949
00:44:53,741 --> 00:44:55,461
Speaker 2: That that was a bit of fun.

950
00:44:55,661 --> 00:44:59,062
Speaker 3: Out louders, thank you for being with us this Wednesday.

951
00:44:59,142 --> 00:45:02,102
Speaker 3: We appreciate all of you so much. Don't forget that.

952
00:45:02,181 --> 00:45:04,062
Speaker 3: If you want to watch us, if you want to

953
00:45:04,102 --> 00:45:08,422
Speaker 3: see my lipsticks so common, you can do that on YouTube.

954
00:45:08,462 --> 00:45:11,022
Speaker 3: We put our whole episode up there if you know

955
00:45:11,181 --> 00:45:13,502
Speaker 3: you'd like to watch it. Links in the show notes,

956
00:45:13,661 --> 00:45:15,742
Speaker 3: and we're going to be back in your ears tomorrow.

957
00:45:15,422 --> 00:45:17,781
Speaker 2: And if you are looking for something else to listen to,

958
00:45:18,102 --> 00:45:21,342
Speaker 2: we did a very fun subscriber episode yesterday all about

959
00:45:21,422 --> 00:45:24,342
Speaker 2: things we deem offensive. It was based off an essay

960
00:45:24,342 --> 00:45:27,821
Speaker 2: that we read and em came with a very long

961
00:45:27,862 --> 00:45:30,661
Speaker 2: list of things she finds offensive. I think one of

962
00:45:30,661 --> 00:45:33,901
Speaker 2: hers was about straws. I have a rant about when

963
00:45:33,982 --> 00:45:37,341
Speaker 2: Raisins pretend to be chocolate. I find that offensive when

964
00:45:37,382 --> 00:45:39,422
Speaker 2: you're posing as a chocolate chip cookie and you're not.

965
00:45:39,902 --> 00:45:43,102
Speaker 2: And Holly needs to talk about fully grown men in

966
00:45:43,502 --> 00:45:47,502
Speaker 2: Oh Song with James. It's a very politically correct episode,

967
00:45:47,502 --> 00:45:50,582
Speaker 2: but because really subscriber episode, we feel we can get

968
00:45:50,622 --> 00:45:52,741
Speaker 2: away with it. So there is a link in our

969
00:45:52,741 --> 00:45:54,861
Speaker 2: show notes. But actually I'm.

970
00:45:54,781 --> 00:45:56,701
Speaker 3: A little bit royal because I don't like it when

971
00:45:56,741 --> 00:45:58,062
Speaker 3: people leave the bag in the tea.

972
00:45:58,822 --> 00:45:59,102
Speaker 2: Yeah.

973
00:45:59,261 --> 00:46:02,382
Speaker 3: True, the King wouldn't like that either. Shout out to

974
00:46:02,422 --> 00:46:05,421
Speaker 3: any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If you love the show

975
00:46:05,502 --> 00:46:08,261
Speaker 3: and you want to support us, subscribing to Mamma Mia

976
00:46:08,382 --> 00:46:10,582
Speaker 3: is the very best way to do it. There's a

977
00:46:10,622 --> 00:46:12,142
Speaker 3: link in the episode description