1
00:00:08,234 --> 00:00:17,234
Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Hello and welcome

2
00:00:17,274 --> 00:00:19,113
Speaker 1: to Mom and Mia out Loud. It's what women are

3
00:00:19,154 --> 00:00:21,953
Speaker 1: actually talking about on Wednesday, the eleventh of March.

4
00:00:22,034 --> 00:00:24,393
Speaker 2: I'm Holly waynewright, I'm Amelia Leaster.

5
00:00:24,314 --> 00:00:25,434
Speaker 3: And I'm Claire Stevens.

6
00:00:25,594 --> 00:00:29,634
Speaker 1: And here's what's on today's agenda. A big Australian TV

7
00:00:29,754 --> 00:00:33,714
Speaker 1: star and the politics of public pregnancy announcements.

8
00:00:33,153 --> 00:00:36,074
Speaker 2: And Gwyneth is doing something really weird and we need

9
00:00:36,153 --> 00:00:37,553
Speaker 2: to figure out why she's doing it.

10
00:00:37,714 --> 00:00:41,074
Speaker 4: And a team of women came to Australia to represent

11
00:00:41,114 --> 00:00:43,714
Speaker 4: their country in soccer and now a number of them

12
00:00:43,913 --> 00:00:44,833
Speaker 4: are staying behind.

13
00:00:45,394 --> 00:00:48,193
Speaker 2: But first, this past weekend, I don't know if you

14
00:00:48,314 --> 00:00:51,594
Speaker 2: noticed this or not, but Australian men were being kind

15
00:00:51,593 --> 00:00:53,914
Speaker 2: of twitchy. And at first I thought it was just

16
00:00:53,954 --> 00:00:56,474
Speaker 2: because they were really excited about International Women's Day on

17
00:00:56,554 --> 00:00:58,554
Speaker 2: Sunday and they were trying to get all their plans

18
00:00:58,554 --> 00:01:00,994
Speaker 2: in place for it. But I think there may have

19
00:01:01,034 --> 00:01:06,033
Speaker 2: been another reason, and that is because a website called

20
00:01:06,074 --> 00:01:10,393
Speaker 2: porn Hub heard of it. Well, I thought you might

21
00:01:10,434 --> 00:01:12,394
Speaker 2: not have. So what it is. It's kind of a

22
00:01:12,514 --> 00:01:15,994
Speaker 2: hub for pornography. Wow, is the best way to describe it.

23
00:01:15,994 --> 00:01:20,074
Speaker 2: It began blocking Australian users on Sunday nights, so if

24
00:01:20,154 --> 00:01:24,114
Speaker 2: you heard screams across Australia, that was why. Because the

25
00:01:24,354 --> 00:01:28,194
Speaker 2: government is rolling out the second phase of its Internet

26
00:01:28,234 --> 00:01:32,274
Speaker 2: protections for young people and as part of that, so

27
00:01:32,354 --> 00:01:34,714
Speaker 2: the first phase was the under sixteen social media ban.

28
00:01:34,914 --> 00:01:37,994
Speaker 2: The second phase is that they want porn sites to

29
00:01:38,034 --> 00:01:41,514
Speaker 2: introduce age verification, which seems fine to me.

30
00:01:41,954 --> 00:01:45,114
Speaker 1: I would have naively assumed that they already have it,

31
00:01:45,154 --> 00:01:47,114
Speaker 1: but I think you just had to click a box correct,

32
00:01:47,114 --> 00:01:47,514
Speaker 1: which is.

33
00:01:47,434 --> 00:01:51,194
Speaker 2: Also yeah, yeah, And the issue is I think people

34
00:01:51,274 --> 00:01:55,594
Speaker 2: were ticking the box who were not eighteen. Basically. Now,

35
00:01:55,714 --> 00:01:58,994
Speaker 2: this Canadian group that owns porn Hub and a bunch

36
00:01:58,994 --> 00:02:02,274
Speaker 2: of other porn sites is mad about this because they

37
00:02:02,314 --> 00:02:05,794
Speaker 2: say that if you do age verification, people who want

38
00:02:05,794 --> 00:02:08,594
Speaker 2: pornography will just go on search for it elsewhere in

39
00:02:08,674 --> 00:02:13,034
Speaker 2: kind of less regulated spaces. So they're making the argument

40
00:02:13,114 --> 00:02:16,914
Speaker 2: that it is going to lead to more depraved pornography.

41
00:02:16,954 --> 00:02:20,874
Speaker 2: I guess. But look, setting aside the policy debate, which

42
00:02:21,194 --> 00:02:25,874
Speaker 2: is substantial, I just wanted to check in on Australian

43
00:02:25,914 --> 00:02:28,434
Speaker 2: men today, or maybe there's lots of women on there too.

44
00:02:28,714 --> 00:02:30,954
Speaker 2: Because I don't know if you saw this headline in

45
00:02:30,994 --> 00:02:34,994
Speaker 2: this news outlet called the Batuta Advocate, but they said

46
00:02:35,314 --> 00:02:38,913
Speaker 2: nations blokes are urged to check in on that mate

47
00:02:39,434 --> 00:02:41,714
Speaker 2: to porn how ban comes into effect. So I thought

48
00:02:41,714 --> 00:02:44,154
Speaker 2: we should just check in on them. Yeah, I love that.

49
00:02:44,314 --> 00:02:47,834
Speaker 4: All the comments I we're just men tagging their friends

50
00:02:49,154 --> 00:02:52,674
Speaker 4: will just be so mad. What I found really interesting

51
00:02:52,714 --> 00:02:59,714
Speaker 4: about this is that apparently downloads of VPN apps have skyrocketed.

52
00:02:59,754 --> 00:03:00,834
Speaker 3: So VPN apps.

53
00:03:00,954 --> 00:03:03,434
Speaker 4: I have never used them, but if I were to

54
00:03:03,554 --> 00:03:06,194
Speaker 4: use them, it would be to watch international television.

55
00:03:06,194 --> 00:03:09,994
Speaker 2: Would you say that the VPN usage has gone up, yes,

56
00:03:10,274 --> 00:03:11,674
Speaker 2: yeather than skyrocketed.

57
00:03:13,474 --> 00:03:16,714
Speaker 3: It's because it has because.

58
00:03:16,554 --> 00:03:19,354
Speaker 2: It's getting harder to get into porn site.

59
00:03:19,394 --> 00:03:23,834
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, because there's a VPN.

60
00:03:24,114 --> 00:03:28,314
Speaker 4: So these you know, VPN apps, they've always been popular

61
00:03:28,354 --> 00:03:30,274
Speaker 4: for like you know, I want to watch Love Island

62
00:03:30,314 --> 00:03:34,354
Speaker 4: in real time whatever it is. And now there's one

63
00:03:34,714 --> 00:03:38,994
Speaker 4: VPN Super Unlimited Proxy, which is now third in the

64
00:03:39,034 --> 00:03:42,394
Speaker 4: app Store, underneath Chat, GPT and clawed.

65
00:03:44,554 --> 00:03:44,874
Speaker 5: I know.

66
00:03:45,114 --> 00:03:49,314
Speaker 2: A VPN is basically a way to access Internet content

67
00:03:49,354 --> 00:03:52,114
Speaker 2: that's not available in your region by pretending that you're

68
00:03:52,114 --> 00:03:54,794
Speaker 2: in another region. It sort of tricks a website into

69
00:03:54,834 --> 00:03:57,234
Speaker 2: thinking that you're somewhere else. And this is relevant because

70
00:03:57,274 --> 00:03:59,634
Speaker 2: pornhub is a big deal. It is the fifteenth most

71
00:03:59,714 --> 00:04:04,514
Speaker 2: visited website in Australia. It's just after Wikipedia.

72
00:04:04,994 --> 00:04:11,074
Speaker 1: Nice question, it's a pup. Oh my god, that was like,

73
00:04:11,554 --> 00:04:20,474
Speaker 1: show Australian slip horn is porn Holm free?

74
00:04:21,354 --> 00:04:21,553
Speaker 5: Yeah?

75
00:04:21,674 --> 00:04:24,393
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, interesting to me.

76
00:04:24,553 --> 00:04:24,873
Speaker 2: Okay.

77
00:04:24,914 --> 00:04:27,914
Speaker 1: The other thing that's fun about this story is that

78
00:04:28,073 --> 00:04:32,113
Speaker 1: talking to men about it, like just casually over breakfast,

79
00:04:32,714 --> 00:04:35,113
Speaker 1: Oh babe, did you see this story about how pornhart

80
00:04:35,154 --> 00:04:38,713
Speaker 1: has been They're like what.

81
00:04:38,073 --> 00:04:42,313
Speaker 4: And you can hear what, you can see the wheels turning,

82
00:04:42,354 --> 00:04:45,314
Speaker 4: being like that's why I wasn't working. But I can

83
00:04:45,393 --> 00:04:49,073
Speaker 4: just imagine the men on Sunday night, the man who's like,

84
00:04:49,113 --> 00:04:51,194
Speaker 4: I'm gonna do it on Sunday.

85
00:04:51,834 --> 00:04:55,113
Speaker 2: It does feel a bit cruel the Canadians, but they

86
00:04:55,193 --> 00:04:56,034
Speaker 2: knew what they were doing.

87
00:04:56,154 --> 00:04:58,514
Speaker 4: Yeah, But that awkward moment when these men would have

88
00:04:58,553 --> 00:05:01,033
Speaker 4: been like, can I ask somebody if they're having the

89
00:05:01,073 --> 00:05:05,073
Speaker 4: same experience to like Google, this is this something that

90
00:05:05,154 --> 00:05:07,474
Speaker 4: I can be public compounded or.

91
00:05:08,553 --> 00:05:11,073
Speaker 2: It just occurred to me that maybe the Canadians really

92
00:05:11,073 --> 00:05:13,074
Speaker 2: did know what they were doing because this happened on

93
00:05:13,193 --> 00:05:14,674
Speaker 2: International Women's.

94
00:05:14,393 --> 00:05:17,474
Speaker 4: Oh wow, And of course, I mean we're joking about men,

95
00:05:17,553 --> 00:05:20,354
Speaker 4: but there are a lot of women who watch porn too,

96
00:05:20,553 --> 00:05:22,674
Speaker 4: so you know there are a lot of people suffering

97
00:05:22,753 --> 00:05:23,193
Speaker 4: right now.

98
00:05:23,513 --> 00:05:25,913
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, Paul went out for the men of Australia.

99
00:05:25,993 --> 00:05:28,633
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh gosh, they're gonna have to get in your hobbies.

100
00:05:29,674 --> 00:05:32,634
Speaker 1: I saw some people crying on Breakfast TV Today hosts

101
00:05:32,834 --> 00:05:36,594
Speaker 1: of The Today Show, Sarah Arbo and Karl Stefanovic, they

102
00:05:36,633 --> 00:05:41,154
Speaker 1: were announcing Sarah's pregnancy and it was actually genuinely very moving.

103
00:05:41,274 --> 00:05:41,434
Speaker 5: Right.

104
00:05:41,474 --> 00:05:44,953
Speaker 1: So, Sarah Arbo, she is Carl Stefanowick's co host on

105
00:05:45,034 --> 00:05:47,674
Speaker 1: the Today Show. I've said before I think she's really good.

106
00:05:47,993 --> 00:05:52,474
Speaker 1: She spoke in her announcement about her previous pregnancy loss,

107
00:05:52,633 --> 00:05:55,754
Speaker 1: and so did Carl, and it was clearly really difficult

108
00:05:55,834 --> 00:05:58,794
Speaker 1: for her to do it, even though she's obviously a

109
00:05:58,834 --> 00:06:02,034
Speaker 1: celebrity journalist. I guess you'd say she's not a super

110
00:06:02,154 --> 00:06:05,354
Speaker 1: public person. Like her husband's very private. She doesn't really

111
00:06:05,433 --> 00:06:08,193
Speaker 1: like talking about her private life. She struggled through it.

112
00:06:08,513 --> 00:06:10,354
Speaker 1: We're going to play you a little bit of the

113
00:06:10,393 --> 00:06:12,193
Speaker 1: announcement from this morning I'm going.

114
00:06:12,073 --> 00:06:16,714
Speaker 6: To try and sail to maintain my composure. But yes,

115
00:06:16,873 --> 00:06:22,914
Speaker 6: Cyrus and I are expecting a little baby. I know

116
00:06:22,993 --> 00:06:26,113
Speaker 6: it's obviously very happy news and everything, but it's just,

117
00:06:26,714 --> 00:06:28,513
Speaker 6: you know, I think it's one of those things that,

118
00:06:28,594 --> 00:06:31,634
Speaker 6: you know, I think it hasn't been the easiest journey

119
00:06:31,674 --> 00:06:33,433
Speaker 6: to get here, which a lot of people I know

120
00:06:33,474 --> 00:06:35,993
Speaker 6: who've gone through and will go through, and I know

121
00:06:35,993 --> 00:06:37,954
Speaker 6: that a lot of our beautiful viewers out there will

122
00:06:38,073 --> 00:06:40,313
Speaker 6: be feeling this right now as well, because it's not

123
00:06:40,354 --> 00:06:43,514
Speaker 6: as easy as you, I suppose sometimes think that pregnancy

124
00:06:43,553 --> 00:06:45,234
Speaker 6: will be. So it has been a bit of a

125
00:06:45,234 --> 00:06:46,593
Speaker 6: bumpy ride, but here we are.

126
00:06:47,073 --> 00:06:50,833
Speaker 1: Later in the conversation, Karl took her hands and said

127
00:06:50,873 --> 00:06:55,514
Speaker 1: that he and his wife Jasmine had also struggled with

128
00:06:55,714 --> 00:06:56,993
Speaker 1: fertility and miscourage.

129
00:06:56,993 --> 00:06:59,273
Speaker 6: Here's that bit, And yeah, it was, you know, this

130
00:06:59,354 --> 00:07:01,593
Speaker 6: time last year where we had our last pregnancy loss,

131
00:07:01,633 --> 00:07:04,034
Speaker 6: and there was one obviously before that. So I think

132
00:07:04,354 --> 00:07:06,914
Speaker 6: that's also why I've been so cautious about sharing this

133
00:07:06,953 --> 00:07:08,993
Speaker 6: new which always you know, I'm so thrilled to be

134
00:07:08,993 --> 00:07:11,514
Speaker 6: sharing with you all and you're at home, and thank

135
00:07:11,554 --> 00:07:13,314
Speaker 6: you to everyone for all the support. But it's just

136
00:07:13,314 --> 00:07:15,034
Speaker 6: one of those things that every day. I mean, I'm

137
00:07:15,034 --> 00:07:17,833
Speaker 6: still terrified. I think I'm still finding it hard to

138
00:07:17,834 --> 00:07:20,674
Speaker 6: believe that it's happening. So when you know, I will

139
00:07:21,434 --> 00:07:23,593
Speaker 6: lean in and enjoy it. But I just think a

140
00:07:23,594 --> 00:07:25,393
Speaker 6: lot of people understand what it's like to sort of

141
00:07:25,434 --> 00:07:27,874
Speaker 6: have this cautious opportunity.

142
00:07:27,914 --> 00:07:30,714
Speaker 7: I know too, and people wouldn't know because I mean,

143
00:07:30,794 --> 00:07:32,954
Speaker 7: Jazz very prior with this too, but we lost a

144
00:07:32,994 --> 00:07:33,594
Speaker 7: couple as well.

145
00:07:33,674 --> 00:07:34,354
Speaker 2: Yeah, and.

146
00:07:36,434 --> 00:07:40,074
Speaker 7: You sit there and you go, as a man, you

147
00:07:40,114 --> 00:07:42,634
Speaker 7: sit there and you go, what can I have done?

148
00:07:43,234 --> 00:07:44,194
Speaker 1: What did I do wrong?

149
00:07:44,754 --> 00:07:48,594
Speaker 7: And all those questions come for you, and so I

150
00:07:48,594 --> 00:07:50,153
Speaker 7: don't want to dwell on that. But you were there

151
00:07:51,114 --> 00:07:55,714
Speaker 7: for Jasmine mainly and also for me. So all the

152
00:07:55,794 --> 00:07:59,234
Speaker 7: dudes out there when your partner goes through this, we're

153
00:07:59,314 --> 00:08:00,914
Speaker 7: kind of familiar with it.

154
00:08:00,914 --> 00:08:04,114
Speaker 1: It made me really happy, to be honest, to hear

155
00:08:04,234 --> 00:08:10,034
Speaker 1: such a mainstream media, commercial TV network talking about miscarriage

156
00:08:10,034 --> 00:08:12,354
Speaker 1: and fertility like this right, And it actually made me

157
00:08:12,393 --> 00:08:16,554
Speaker 1: think big shout out to our amazing friend and founder

158
00:08:16,594 --> 00:08:18,874
Speaker 1: Miir Friedman, because I don't think people used to do this.

159
00:08:18,953 --> 00:08:20,994
Speaker 1: I was thinking about when I first came to Mommera

160
00:08:21,034 --> 00:08:23,074
Speaker 1: and even before that that she was one of the

161
00:08:23,114 --> 00:08:27,514
Speaker 1: first women I know to publicly speak about miscarriage. And

162
00:08:27,554 --> 00:08:30,514
Speaker 1: look how far we've come that now you've got Karl

163
00:08:30,514 --> 00:08:33,434
Speaker 1: Stefanovick having a cry on the couch with his co

164
00:08:33,514 --> 00:08:36,274
Speaker 1: host announcing that, and I just thought that, actually it

165
00:08:36,354 --> 00:08:39,794
Speaker 1: was great, But it also made me reflect on the

166
00:08:39,834 --> 00:08:43,114
Speaker 1: amount of thought that would have gone into that announcement

167
00:08:43,754 --> 00:08:47,794
Speaker 1: and almost any public pregnancy announcement now in the world,

168
00:08:47,834 --> 00:08:49,834
Speaker 1: because we are so much thanks to the fact that

169
00:08:49,874 --> 00:08:53,954
Speaker 1: the conversation has become so much more widespread about the

170
00:08:53,994 --> 00:08:57,554
Speaker 1: struggles of fertility and pregnancy loss, that we are also

171
00:08:57,794 --> 00:09:01,394
Speaker 1: highly cautious about announcing pregnancies now. It seems that the

172
00:09:01,474 --> 00:09:04,874
Speaker 1: kind of like oops, I'm pregnant, happy news thing, we

173
00:09:04,954 --> 00:09:07,514
Speaker 1: are all aware of how much weight it carries, and

174
00:09:07,554 --> 00:09:11,074
Speaker 1: so we've really shifted the way we talk publicly about it.

175
00:09:11,274 --> 00:09:12,994
Speaker 1: Do we think that's true, Claire?

176
00:09:13,234 --> 00:09:16,714
Speaker 4: I think so, And I think there's two factors to it.

177
00:09:16,794 --> 00:09:21,354
Speaker 4: On the one hand, I really felt what Sarah was

178
00:09:21,394 --> 00:09:24,034
Speaker 4: saying about when you're.

179
00:09:23,874 --> 00:09:24,994
Speaker 3: Still anxious about it.

180
00:09:25,314 --> 00:09:27,594
Speaker 4: I had that a lot with my first pregnancy, where

181
00:09:27,594 --> 00:09:30,674
Speaker 4: I'd had a miscarriage and then I was pregnant, and

182
00:09:31,514 --> 00:09:33,034
Speaker 4: I knew I had to tell people.

183
00:09:32,794 --> 00:09:33,954
Speaker 2: Because it was I was.

184
00:09:34,394 --> 00:09:36,833
Speaker 4: I was eating a lot in the office, and I thought, no,

185
00:09:37,034 --> 00:09:39,954
Speaker 4: they're going to think that, like there's helping wrong with me.

186
00:09:40,474 --> 00:09:42,594
Speaker 1: You really did a way to tell people. You really

187
00:09:42,634 --> 00:09:46,554
Speaker 1: didn't want to tell people. Yeah, yeah, And in a way,

188
00:09:46,594 --> 00:09:49,034
Speaker 1: people were pushing you a little bit to tell people,

189
00:09:49,154 --> 00:09:49,794
Speaker 1: and you were like.

190
00:09:49,954 --> 00:09:51,754
Speaker 3: Nah, yeah, I didn't.

191
00:09:51,954 --> 00:09:55,953
Speaker 4: And I waited till probably almost halfway, like Sarah said,

192
00:09:56,114 --> 00:09:59,834
Speaker 4: like to tell people because I was really anxious that

193
00:09:59,874 --> 00:10:02,474
Speaker 4: something would go wrong, and you feel like you're waiting

194
00:10:02,474 --> 00:10:04,554
Speaker 4: for the other shoe to drop, and that maybe as

195
00:10:04,594 --> 00:10:06,674
Speaker 4: soon as you announce it and you lean into it

196
00:10:06,794 --> 00:10:10,594
Speaker 4: and you get excited that something bad is going to happen.

197
00:10:10,594 --> 00:10:13,593
Speaker 4: And when you're pregnant and you're getting all the scans

198
00:10:13,634 --> 00:10:17,794
Speaker 4: and tests, you think, oh, it would be so vulnerable

199
00:10:17,834 --> 00:10:20,154
Speaker 4: if something did happen, And then I had to explain

200
00:10:20,274 --> 00:10:24,074
Speaker 4: that to everybody. So I get it from that perspective

201
00:10:24,514 --> 00:10:26,834
Speaker 4: that you're still anxious about it. So the idea of

202
00:10:26,914 --> 00:10:31,554
Speaker 4: announcing it with pure excitement feels disingenuous. And then there's

203
00:10:31,594 --> 00:10:34,754
Speaker 4: the public aspect of it. And something I think about

204
00:10:34,794 --> 00:10:37,114
Speaker 4: a lot is that Elizabeth Day, who is one of

205
00:10:37,114 --> 00:10:41,514
Speaker 4: my favorite writers podcasters, she wrote and spoke a few

206
00:10:41,554 --> 00:10:46,034
Speaker 4: years ago about fertility privilege or pregnancy privilege, and she

207
00:10:46,314 --> 00:10:50,914
Speaker 4: said that she found ultrasound images really triggering because she

208
00:10:50,994 --> 00:10:54,034
Speaker 4: had had lots of ultrasound images and a lot of

209
00:10:54,034 --> 00:10:56,953
Speaker 4: people who go through fertility struggles have had those early

210
00:10:57,074 --> 00:11:00,194
Speaker 4: ultrasound images with a little baby in there and ended

211
00:11:00,274 --> 00:11:04,074
Speaker 4: up with no baby. And so that's made me really

212
00:11:04,594 --> 00:11:08,674
Speaker 4: cognizant that when you are announcing a pregnancy, whether it's

213
00:11:08,834 --> 00:11:10,914
Speaker 4: you know, sharing a bump or sharing an image or

214
00:11:10,914 --> 00:11:13,714
Speaker 4: whatever it is, there are going to be people who

215
00:11:14,394 --> 00:11:18,474
Speaker 4: receive that in a really different way to obviously what

216
00:11:18,514 --> 00:11:21,954
Speaker 4: you're intending, which is just this.

217
00:11:21,834 --> 00:11:22,514
Speaker 3: Is my news.

218
00:11:23,274 --> 00:11:25,754
Speaker 4: And the one thing I did think when Elizabeth Day

219
00:11:25,794 --> 00:11:28,234
Speaker 4: was talking about it a few years ago, and Maya

220
00:11:28,274 --> 00:11:32,754
Speaker 4: Friedman made this point, just because somebody has fertility privilege

221
00:11:32,834 --> 00:11:36,314
Speaker 4: or pregnancy privilege now doesn't mean they've always had it.

222
00:11:36,714 --> 00:11:39,154
Speaker 4: So that's what makes it really complicated. When we talk

223
00:11:39,154 --> 00:11:40,914
Speaker 4: about privilege, we think of it as more of a

224
00:11:40,914 --> 00:11:44,914
Speaker 4: fixed thing, but a lot of people who eventually say

225
00:11:45,434 --> 00:11:48,514
Speaker 4: I'm pregnant, I'm having a baby, have been on the

226
00:11:48,554 --> 00:11:49,194
Speaker 4: other side.

227
00:11:49,034 --> 00:11:51,514
Speaker 2: Of that, And I think the other reason why it's

228
00:11:51,554 --> 00:11:56,114
Speaker 2: become so heightened now is because the boundary between public

229
00:11:56,154 --> 00:11:59,154
Speaker 2: and private has gotten really blurred. So setting aside, if

230
00:11:59,194 --> 00:12:02,354
Speaker 2: you're a morning TV host, that's obviously a whole particular

231
00:12:02,394 --> 00:12:06,914
Speaker 2: set of concerns, but for just everyday people, the issue

232
00:12:06,914 --> 00:12:09,434
Speaker 2: of the announcement is now something that you probably put

233
00:12:09,474 --> 00:12:11,754
Speaker 2: on social media, whereas in the past you might have

234
00:12:11,874 --> 00:12:15,154
Speaker 2: told friends individually. So you are having to now think

235
00:12:15,514 --> 00:12:19,114
Speaker 2: much more holistically about the moment you announced to everyone

236
00:12:19,154 --> 00:12:21,754
Speaker 2: that you're pregnant. And I remember a friend of mine

237
00:12:21,754 --> 00:12:24,674
Speaker 2: a few years ago. She was in her early thirties

238
00:12:24,674 --> 00:12:27,554
Speaker 2: at the time, and she complained to me about how

239
00:12:27,554 --> 00:12:30,594
Speaker 2: she had noticed this trend amongst her friends, which was

240
00:12:30,634 --> 00:12:33,874
Speaker 2: sort of like patronizing her by not telling her they

241
00:12:33,874 --> 00:12:37,394
Speaker 2: were pregnant even though they clearly were. And so, for instance,

242
00:12:37,394 --> 00:12:39,714
Speaker 2: they go out to brunch and her friends, who might

243
00:12:39,754 --> 00:12:43,354
Speaker 2: normally have a mimosa, was sort of pointedly refusing the mimosa,

244
00:12:43,714 --> 00:12:46,714
Speaker 2: and she felt really hurt that they didn't feel able

245
00:12:46,794 --> 00:12:50,474
Speaker 2: to bring her a friend into the circle, but it

246
00:12:50,554 --> 00:12:52,914
Speaker 2: was probably because they were now having to weigh it

247
00:12:53,074 --> 00:12:56,714
Speaker 2: against when they made their quote unquote announcement to everyone

248
00:12:56,754 --> 00:12:59,674
Speaker 2: on social media. So there's such a fine line I

249
00:12:59,714 --> 00:13:02,714
Speaker 2: think these days between it's a shame that we can't

250
00:13:02,754 --> 00:13:05,834
Speaker 2: have more of gradation between. I might tell this close

251
00:13:05,874 --> 00:13:09,634
Speaker 2: friend earlier, then I might tell this friend, but now

252
00:13:09,674 --> 00:13:11,114
Speaker 2: we tell everyone at the same time.

253
00:13:11,394 --> 00:13:13,834
Speaker 1: I mean, I think, obviously, I think it's a great

254
00:13:13,874 --> 00:13:16,874
Speaker 1: thing that there's so much more transparency and discussion about

255
00:13:16,874 --> 00:13:19,634
Speaker 1: the complexities of all of this, But it does also

256
00:13:19,674 --> 00:13:21,754
Speaker 1: mean that when you make that announcement, there's a lot

257
00:13:21,794 --> 00:13:24,594
Speaker 1: of throat clearing that has to be done. You'll often

258
00:13:24,634 --> 00:13:27,554
Speaker 1: see a pregnancy announcement on social media that's like me

259
00:13:27,634 --> 00:13:31,554
Speaker 1: and Bob have happy news, thinking of all those women

260
00:13:31,634 --> 00:13:34,114
Speaker 1: who wish this was their day too, And that's lovely,

261
00:13:34,954 --> 00:13:37,314
Speaker 1: But I wonder two things that I'd love to discuss.

262
00:13:37,354 --> 00:13:40,114
Speaker 1: And this is no way critical of that level of

263
00:13:40,194 --> 00:13:46,154
Speaker 1: raised awareness, but does it increase anxiety around fertility and

264
00:13:46,234 --> 00:13:51,274
Speaker 1: pregnancy loss that now it's included in every conversation about conception?

265
00:13:52,514 --> 00:13:56,914
Speaker 1: And is it okay for you to just celebrate your

266
00:13:56,994 --> 00:14:01,714
Speaker 1: news without necessarily having to wonder how it lands for

267
00:14:01,874 --> 00:14:05,554
Speaker 1: everybody or does that kind of make you tone death?

268
00:14:05,674 --> 00:14:07,874
Speaker 2: And a third question, can you do you share your

269
00:14:07,874 --> 00:14:13,834
Speaker 2: pregnancy news before the sort of expected twelve weeks, because

270
00:14:13,874 --> 00:14:16,714
Speaker 2: you might want the support of your community around you,

271
00:14:16,834 --> 00:14:20,234
Speaker 2: and you might be prepared to deal with the aftermath

272
00:14:20,274 --> 00:14:22,914
Speaker 2: of that if something does go the way you don't

273
00:14:22,914 --> 00:14:26,114
Speaker 2: want it to go. For instance, that's something that I

274
00:14:26,234 --> 00:14:28,634
Speaker 2: felt when I was pregnant, was that I did want

275
00:14:28,634 --> 00:14:30,714
Speaker 2: to share it with certain people in my life before

276
00:14:30,754 --> 00:14:33,474
Speaker 2: the twelve week mark, But then I felt like I

277
00:14:33,554 --> 00:14:35,314
Speaker 2: was doing something wrong, and.

278
00:14:35,954 --> 00:14:38,874
Speaker 1: It did you weigh up in that decision not to pry,

279
00:14:38,914 --> 00:14:41,354
Speaker 1: but like should one way up in that decision. The

280
00:14:41,434 --> 00:14:44,074
Speaker 1: people I tell before that mark are the people I

281
00:14:44,114 --> 00:14:48,474
Speaker 1: would be happy exactly then know exactly if things go wrong.

282
00:14:48,514 --> 00:14:50,834
Speaker 2: Which is why I'm bemoaning a little bit this idea

283
00:14:50,874 --> 00:14:54,274
Speaker 2: that now we tell everyone, including strangers who happened to

284
00:14:54,274 --> 00:14:56,794
Speaker 2: stumble on our Instagram page, that we're pregnant at the

285
00:14:56,834 --> 00:14:59,554
Speaker 2: same time, because some people you do feel able to

286
00:14:59,554 --> 00:15:02,634
Speaker 2: share the highs and lawers with more than other people

287
00:15:02,634 --> 00:15:04,474
Speaker 2: who may or may not be your Instagram followers.

288
00:15:04,794 --> 00:15:06,754
Speaker 1: Do you think there's such a thing as just happy news?

289
00:15:07,234 --> 00:15:10,754
Speaker 4: I mean, I do kind of squirm a bit at

290
00:15:10,794 --> 00:15:14,954
Speaker 4: the idea of when I was pregnant and I was

291
00:15:15,074 --> 00:15:19,114
Speaker 4: kind of thinking about telling people. I was very aware

292
00:15:19,274 --> 00:15:23,914
Speaker 4: that I have some close friends who are struggling. The

293
00:15:24,034 --> 00:15:26,074
Speaker 4: tricky thing as well is when you've bonded a little

294
00:15:26,114 --> 00:15:29,314
Speaker 4: bit over that struggle, those struggles absolutely and so you've

295
00:15:29,314 --> 00:15:31,954
Speaker 4: been vulnerable with each other and then you find out

296
00:15:31,994 --> 00:15:35,954
Speaker 4: this news. And so I went on a few different forums.

297
00:15:35,954 --> 00:15:38,074
Speaker 4: I read a few different things about what you're meant

298
00:15:38,114 --> 00:15:40,794
Speaker 4: to do, and I was enraged by what I saw

299
00:15:40,794 --> 00:15:42,274
Speaker 4: because I thought it was really patronized.

300
00:15:42,314 --> 00:15:44,114
Speaker 1: Tell me what was the advice that you saw?

301
00:15:44,234 --> 00:15:47,154
Speaker 3: The idea was like basically, so say.

302
00:15:46,954 --> 00:15:49,554
Speaker 4: It was that brunch that you were talking about, where

303
00:15:49,874 --> 00:15:51,594
Speaker 4: you know it might be obvious that the person was pregnant,

304
00:15:51,674 --> 00:15:54,874
Speaker 4: or they might be telling other people to send them

305
00:15:54,914 --> 00:15:59,274
Speaker 4: a text before and kind of just go Like I

306
00:15:59,314 --> 00:16:02,794
Speaker 4: just thought it was too much like messaging somebody and saying, Hey,

307
00:16:02,954 --> 00:16:06,554
Speaker 4: I'm going to tell everybody at this event, but I

308
00:16:06,594 --> 00:16:08,754
Speaker 4: wanted to tell you first because I thought you might

309
00:16:08,754 --> 00:16:10,954
Speaker 4: be sensitive because this hasn't happened for you whatever.

310
00:16:11,474 --> 00:16:13,874
Speaker 3: And I thought I actually want to.

311
00:16:13,874 --> 00:16:19,474
Speaker 4: Give people more respect, more dignity, and more agency than that,

312
00:16:19,674 --> 00:16:23,954
Speaker 4: because the feelings are really complicated. I remember last year

313
00:16:24,434 --> 00:16:27,754
Speaker 4: having I had two miscarriages before I had this pregnancy,

314
00:16:28,514 --> 00:16:32,914
Speaker 4: and I remember being really confused because after one of

315
00:16:32,954 --> 00:16:37,434
Speaker 4: the miscarriages, I felt relief because the timing would have

316
00:16:37,474 --> 00:16:38,274
Speaker 4: been really bad.

317
00:16:38,954 --> 00:16:40,194
Speaker 3: And so as much.

318
00:16:39,994 --> 00:16:42,794
Speaker 4: As I spoke to friends and there was a lot

319
00:16:42,834 --> 00:16:46,034
Speaker 4: of you know, a lot of support and that sort

320
00:16:46,034 --> 00:16:48,754
Speaker 4: of thing, you actually don't want to assume exactly how

321
00:16:48,794 --> 00:16:52,754
Speaker 4: somebody feels about fertility in any one moment, because I

322
00:16:52,794 --> 00:16:56,554
Speaker 4: was already feeling guilty about having felt that momentary relief.

323
00:16:57,514 --> 00:17:01,634
Speaker 4: And the other thing is, yes, pregnancy announcements are triggering

324
00:17:01,714 --> 00:17:04,034
Speaker 4: all sorts of things about pregnancy, babies, all of it

325
00:17:04,074 --> 00:17:08,714
Speaker 4: can be triggering. But life is triggering too, and I

326
00:17:08,754 --> 00:17:10,593
Speaker 4: think most of us, if we have a moment of

327
00:17:10,634 --> 00:17:15,073
Speaker 4: being triggered, we're not necessarily angry at that person. Like

328
00:17:15,514 --> 00:17:19,793
Speaker 4: I remember walking into my pop's funeral last year, and

329
00:17:19,834 --> 00:17:22,794
Speaker 4: so I was already an emotional wreck, and I had

330
00:17:22,834 --> 00:17:27,114
Speaker 4: been trying to fell pregnant and wasn't working. And I

331
00:17:27,314 --> 00:17:30,794
Speaker 4: run into a family member who was holding her beautiful

332
00:17:30,794 --> 00:17:33,634
Speaker 4: newborn baby, and I just burst out in tears, and

333
00:17:33,714 --> 00:17:35,234
Speaker 4: I've never done that, Like I'm not a cry I

334
00:17:35,314 --> 00:17:36,434
Speaker 4: just burst out in tears.

335
00:17:36,234 --> 00:17:38,474
Speaker 3: And I was like, it's just is alive and it's dead,

336
00:17:38,554 --> 00:17:39,754
Speaker 3: that it's just so much and I.

337
00:17:39,754 --> 00:17:40,874
Speaker 2: Feel all these feelings.

338
00:17:41,154 --> 00:17:43,754
Speaker 4: And I spoke to her afterwards once I'd gained some composure,

339
00:17:43,754 --> 00:17:45,354
Speaker 4: and it's like, it's not your you don't have to

340
00:17:45,354 --> 00:17:49,434
Speaker 4: do anything. You're not responsible for how I felt in

341
00:17:49,474 --> 00:17:53,354
Speaker 4: that moment. And I think the way Sarah Arbo approached

342
00:17:53,394 --> 00:17:56,994
Speaker 4: it was beautiful because she acknowledged her own journey, her

343
00:17:57,034 --> 00:18:01,074
Speaker 4: own vulnerability. But I don't think you have to apologize either.

344
00:18:01,234 --> 00:18:03,954
Speaker 1: No, it's very complicated stuff, and I think you're right

345
00:18:04,034 --> 00:18:05,754
Speaker 1: that we can kind of minimize it if we just

346
00:18:05,794 --> 00:18:08,874
Speaker 1: put one rule, because I remember at times for myself

347
00:18:08,954 --> 00:18:11,914
Speaker 1: of being of feeling that anger that you do feel

348
00:18:12,514 --> 00:18:15,234
Speaker 1: and almost bonding with your people about it, like and

349
00:18:15,514 --> 00:18:17,754
Speaker 1: that bitch just said she was pregnant, you know, and

350
00:18:17,794 --> 00:18:20,834
Speaker 1: I've lost a baby, and and there's energy in that anger.

351
00:18:21,474 --> 00:18:23,874
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that you really feel that way. It

352
00:18:23,874 --> 00:18:26,394
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you're not happy for that person. It

353
00:18:26,434 --> 00:18:29,354
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you won't love that baby when it comes.

354
00:18:29,794 --> 00:18:34,634
Speaker 1: It just is your entirely justifiable fury at the universe

355
00:18:34,794 --> 00:18:38,674
Speaker 1: in that particular moment, and if you're lucky enough it

356
00:18:38,714 --> 00:18:42,034
Speaker 1: will work its way out that you're one day that person.

357
00:18:42,674 --> 00:18:44,874
Speaker 1: It's complicated, but I do I felt a lot of

358
00:18:44,954 --> 00:18:47,114
Speaker 1: progress in that announcement this morning.

359
00:18:47,154 --> 00:18:49,914
Speaker 2: Somehow, oh I thought it was beautifully done too. We

360
00:18:49,994 --> 00:18:52,594
Speaker 2: talked a lot about how you share the news, what

361
00:18:52,714 --> 00:18:55,634
Speaker 2: about how you receive this kind of news, particularly if

362
00:18:55,714 --> 00:18:58,794
Speaker 2: you yourself are feeling conflicted about it. There was a

363
00:18:58,834 --> 00:19:03,234
Speaker 2: wonderful article on Mamma Mia by Jessica Clark recently. She's

364
00:19:03,234 --> 00:19:06,674
Speaker 2: a food and travel editor here and she found herself

365
00:19:06,874 --> 00:19:11,434
Speaker 2: pant at thirty six and also single, and she wrote

366
00:19:11,434 --> 00:19:15,834
Speaker 2: about this one question that everyone kind of reflexively kept

367
00:19:15,874 --> 00:19:20,234
Speaker 2: asking her, which was who's the dad? Who's the father?

368
00:19:21,034 --> 00:19:26,714
Speaker 2: And I feel never so invasive, but she said that

369
00:19:26,834 --> 00:19:30,394
Speaker 2: everyone was asking her this, wow, and she felt like

370
00:19:30,554 --> 00:19:32,994
Speaker 2: it was kind of asking her to put a footnote

371
00:19:33,074 --> 00:19:36,474
Speaker 2: on the joy she was feeling. And so she suggested

372
00:19:36,474 --> 00:19:38,794
Speaker 2: some alternative questions to ask. I always find it really

373
00:19:38,874 --> 00:19:40,914
Speaker 2: useful when people give me a script of what they

374
00:19:40,954 --> 00:19:44,514
Speaker 2: want to hear. And she suggested three things you can ask,

375
00:19:44,554 --> 00:19:47,513
Speaker 2: how are you feeling? Are you excited? And what do

376
00:19:47,594 --> 00:19:50,033
Speaker 2: you need? What a great question to ask.

377
00:19:50,234 --> 00:19:52,994
Speaker 1: Honestly, it amazes me that people still go around asking

378
00:19:53,114 --> 00:19:57,714
Speaker 1: pregnant women any kind of questions. Yeah, but like that's amazing,

379
00:19:57,754 --> 00:19:59,234
Speaker 1: You're so right? Are you excited?

380
00:19:59,394 --> 00:20:03,994
Speaker 2: That's the right response in a moment. Why is Gwyneth

381
00:20:04,034 --> 00:20:09,634
Speaker 2: Paltrow selling her old stuff online? And will Holly spring

382
00:20:09,714 --> 00:20:11,954
Speaker 2: for her used name plate necklace?

383
00:20:16,234 --> 00:20:22,074
Speaker 5: Out loud as it's mea here, grandmother of three and counting?

384
00:20:22,234 --> 00:20:25,033
Speaker 5: Who knows? Who knows what Jesse's up to? Even as

385
00:20:25,074 --> 00:20:29,114
Speaker 5: we speak. Yesterday on our subscriber episode, I did a

386
00:20:29,154 --> 00:20:31,634
Speaker 5: diary note. I just got into the tiniest studio I

387
00:20:31,674 --> 00:20:36,834
Speaker 5: could find, turned on the microphone and just downloaded everything

388
00:20:36,874 --> 00:20:40,314
Speaker 5: that's been happening over the last week or so. Obviously,

389
00:20:40,514 --> 00:20:42,874
Speaker 5: I didn't tell Jesse's first story. That's hers to tell,

390
00:20:43,234 --> 00:20:45,634
Speaker 5: but I had a few stories on my own to

391
00:20:45,714 --> 00:20:48,114
Speaker 5: tell about the experience.

392
00:20:48,114 --> 00:20:48,754
Speaker 2: And so I have.

393
00:20:49,594 --> 00:20:51,834
Speaker 5: If you want to listen and you're not already a subscriber,

394
00:20:51,914 --> 00:20:54,354
Speaker 5: follow the link in the show notes to get out

395
00:20:54,394 --> 00:20:57,793
Speaker 5: loud and my unfiltered voice in your ears, and you

396
00:20:57,834 --> 00:20:59,074
Speaker 5: can hear us five days a week.

397
00:21:00,474 --> 00:21:04,194
Speaker 2: We've talked a little bit about International Women's Day already today,

398
00:21:04,634 --> 00:21:05,114
Speaker 2: which some.

399
00:21:05,234 --> 00:21:06,954
Speaker 1: Relation to the Paunsa.

400
00:21:07,394 --> 00:21:12,274
Speaker 2: Celebrated by abstaining from using pornography, perhaps against their will,

401
00:21:12,594 --> 00:21:16,234
Speaker 2: but Gwyneth Paltrow weighed in on how she celebrated International

402
00:21:16,234 --> 00:21:19,434
Speaker 2: Women's Day. She is celebrating by trying to sell her

403
00:21:19,434 --> 00:21:22,754
Speaker 2: old clothes on an option site. Let's have a listen

404
00:21:22,794 --> 00:21:25,994
Speaker 2: to this interview because this was introduced on the website.

405
00:21:26,194 --> 00:21:29,674
Speaker 2: They said, today, as we celebrate International Women's Day, we

406
00:21:29,714 --> 00:21:33,234
Speaker 2: sit down with Gwyneth Paltrow to discuss her landmark auction.

407
00:21:34,114 --> 00:21:37,154
Speaker 8: Last year, we had moved house and I was reorganizing,

408
00:21:37,194 --> 00:21:39,434
Speaker 8: and I've been trying to sort of lighten the load

409
00:21:39,474 --> 00:21:41,594
Speaker 8: a little bit. I said to my friend, so many

410
00:21:41,594 --> 00:21:44,354
Speaker 8: of these things are so fantastic and they have meaning,

411
00:21:44,394 --> 00:21:46,754
Speaker 8: and I would love for people to understand what they

412
00:21:46,794 --> 00:21:49,274
Speaker 8: meant to me. And she was like, well, why don't

413
00:21:49,274 --> 00:21:51,714
Speaker 8: you call Julian's. This is exactly the kind of thing

414
00:21:51,754 --> 00:21:52,074
Speaker 8: they do.

415
00:21:52,394 --> 00:21:55,634
Speaker 2: Julian's is an auction side.

416
00:21:56,234 --> 00:21:58,714
Speaker 1: I don't want to be sippy about people selling their

417
00:21:58,834 --> 00:22:04,434
Speaker 1: things online because it's great, but that's not why she

418
00:22:04,594 --> 00:22:10,314
Speaker 1: did it. But also, it's like I've seen Gwyneth's bathroom.

419
00:22:10,834 --> 00:22:13,754
Speaker 1: She doesn't need the money, you know what I mean?

420
00:22:13,874 --> 00:22:16,674
Speaker 1: She doesn't need the money. That's so good. I have

421
00:22:16,794 --> 00:22:17,754
Speaker 1: gone through this whole.

422
00:22:19,354 --> 00:22:21,194
Speaker 2: So we sit next to each other in the office.

423
00:22:21,274 --> 00:22:23,954
Speaker 2: I think every time I have looked over at Holly's

424
00:22:23,994 --> 00:22:26,914
Speaker 2: screen in last week, she has had this auction website up.

425
00:22:27,434 --> 00:22:30,834
Speaker 2: And I love how Gwyneth makes everything sound lofty, even

426
00:22:30,874 --> 00:22:33,954
Speaker 2: when it is a cash grab, so it says. Following

427
00:22:34,034 --> 00:22:36,754
Speaker 2: a fire at her storage unit five years ago and

428
00:22:36,794 --> 00:22:39,474
Speaker 2: a move from her Los Angeles family home, one have

429
00:22:39,554 --> 00:22:43,994
Speaker 2: adopted a philosophy as streamlined living, one that prioritizes the present,

430
00:22:44,554 --> 00:22:46,554
Speaker 2: which is why she is now selling a hat from

431
00:22:46,554 --> 00:22:51,034
Speaker 2: her bachelorette party embroidered with missus Foulchuck. You would want

432
00:22:51,074 --> 00:22:53,714
Speaker 2: this me. I would want it. I want all of it.

433
00:22:53,874 --> 00:22:58,474
Speaker 1: There's a ring that I'm seriously considering jewelry. It's done.

434
00:22:58,754 --> 00:23:00,994
Speaker 1: She's got a name ring. It says Gwyneth.

435
00:23:01,474 --> 00:23:04,874
Speaker 2: Jewry is not stunning, Claire. I think that you're pregnant

436
00:23:04,874 --> 00:23:07,313
Speaker 2: and your brain is soft, right, I want it. There

437
00:23:07,514 --> 00:23:10,194
Speaker 2: was a Jennifer Maya necklace on there with the initials

438
00:23:10,274 --> 00:23:14,833
Speaker 2: ACM and a heart that's apple Chris Moses. So I

439
00:23:14,834 --> 00:23:17,114
Speaker 2: guess if you have family members of his names happened

440
00:23:17,114 --> 00:23:19,234
Speaker 2: to start with AC and I might want a bit

441
00:23:19,314 --> 00:23:20,074
Speaker 2: on this necklace.

442
00:23:20,154 --> 00:23:21,194
Speaker 3: I saw an m pendant.

443
00:23:21,234 --> 00:23:24,194
Speaker 4: I was like, Machildren love that I thought, But I

444
00:23:24,194 --> 00:23:27,154
Speaker 4: thought like with the jewelry, it would be worth every cent.

445
00:23:27,194 --> 00:23:30,594
Speaker 4: And by the way, not everything is absurdly priced. There

446
00:23:30,594 --> 00:23:32,874
Speaker 4: are things I was like, one hundred dollars. That is

447
00:23:32,954 --> 00:23:34,834
Speaker 4: one hundred US dollars. I don't want to think about

448
00:23:34,834 --> 00:23:37,594
Speaker 4: the conversion, but it did make me think it would

449
00:23:37,634 --> 00:23:40,434
Speaker 4: be worth every cent to be out and you've got

450
00:23:40,474 --> 00:23:43,073
Speaker 4: a bracelet on and your friend goes, where'd you get

451
00:23:43,074 --> 00:23:46,994
Speaker 4: that bracelet expecting you to say, oh, Levisa, dared you say?

452
00:23:47,114 --> 00:23:47,234
Speaker 2: It?

453
00:23:47,314 --> 00:23:50,914
Speaker 1: Used to be I didn't know about this whole world

454
00:23:50,994 --> 00:23:53,794
Speaker 1: of celebrity auctions because I think that it was our

455
00:23:53,834 --> 00:23:56,194
Speaker 1: friend Lee Campbell who sent me the link to Gwyneth.

456
00:23:56,274 --> 00:23:57,754
Speaker 1: She knows me, and she sent me the link to

457
00:23:57,754 --> 00:24:01,313
Speaker 1: Gwynet's auction and I immediately went, oh that ring. But

458
00:24:01,354 --> 00:24:03,754
Speaker 1: I was like, why is Gwyneth auctioning her stuff? And

459
00:24:03,794 --> 00:24:05,834
Speaker 1: she said, oh, they all do it, and they all

460
00:24:05,874 --> 00:24:08,954
Speaker 1: do it through Julian's, like the posh place to do it.

461
00:24:09,314 --> 00:24:11,514
Speaker 3: Flee Campbell would know that information.

462
00:24:11,594 --> 00:24:13,794
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was telling me she was really tempted buying

463
00:24:13,794 --> 00:24:15,634
Speaker 1: somebody's trench coat. I don't know she did. I don't

464
00:24:15,634 --> 00:24:18,634
Speaker 1: think she did. But it's like, I'm fascinated by that

465
00:24:18,674 --> 00:24:22,273
Speaker 1: because it's basically the celebrity equivalent of a car boot sale. Right,

466
00:24:22,394 --> 00:24:24,794
Speaker 1: your moving house. We're all relate. We can relate to that.

467
00:24:25,154 --> 00:24:27,794
Speaker 1: We're moving house, we're decluttering, We're like all this shit

468
00:24:27,914 --> 00:24:28,594
Speaker 1: someone will want.

469
00:24:28,754 --> 00:24:31,474
Speaker 2: Not shit. You need to refer to the old pile

470
00:24:31,554 --> 00:24:33,714
Speaker 2: of H and M tops in the corner of your

471
00:24:33,714 --> 00:24:37,553
Speaker 2: wardrobe as your archive. Following it's your archives, You're.

472
00:24:37,434 --> 00:24:41,513
Speaker 1: So right, Okay, so my archives and I'm displaying my

473
00:24:41,874 --> 00:24:46,553
Speaker 1: archive all over the front nature strip of my house.

474
00:24:46,554 --> 00:24:49,394
Speaker 1: People are like, these shoes worn, and I'm like, only

475
00:24:49,434 --> 00:24:53,954
Speaker 1: a little bit. It's like it's the celebrity equivalent of that, right,

476
00:24:54,434 --> 00:24:58,554
Speaker 1: everything's in such beautiful condition, Like the photos are so good,

477
00:24:58,554 --> 00:25:00,914
Speaker 1: and I'm like, if I sold anything of mine, it'd

478
00:25:00,914 --> 00:25:04,034
Speaker 1: have like shirt with stain, earring are.

479
00:25:03,954 --> 00:25:04,874
Speaker 3: The earring missing?

480
00:25:05,234 --> 00:25:06,194
Speaker 2: Also available?

481
00:25:06,234 --> 00:25:07,074
Speaker 3: Earring is broke?

482
00:25:07,674 --> 00:25:09,474
Speaker 1: It's the shirt how to stay? Then it was good.

483
00:25:09,474 --> 00:25:10,514
Speaker 1: It's maybe worth.

484
00:25:10,354 --> 00:25:11,513
Speaker 3: More, I know, I know.

485
00:25:11,674 --> 00:25:14,434
Speaker 4: Well, I was looking up because on the website where

486
00:25:14,434 --> 00:25:17,914
Speaker 4: Gwyneth is auctioning Whoopi Goldberg is also having an auction

487
00:25:18,154 --> 00:25:21,513
Speaker 4: furniture plates, that kind of thing. Mariah Carry has had

488
00:25:21,514 --> 00:25:25,594
Speaker 4: one before, Joan Rivers, Olivia and John. But I did

489
00:25:25,674 --> 00:25:29,954
Speaker 4: do some research and I remembered that Russell Crowe had

490
00:25:29,954 --> 00:25:34,594
Speaker 4: a divorce auction and the shock strap he wore in

491
00:25:34,674 --> 00:25:39,474
Speaker 4: Cinderella Man was bought by the TV presenter je On Olivers.

492
00:25:39,794 --> 00:25:43,714
Speaker 2: Okay, but also cinere like the jockstaff from Gladiator. I

493
00:25:43,754 --> 00:25:45,994
Speaker 2: could get who even watched.

494
00:25:47,954 --> 00:25:49,634
Speaker 3: Apparently there was a lot of Gladiator.

495
00:25:49,754 --> 00:25:51,754
Speaker 1: All right, I'm about to start to go fundly so

496
00:25:51,874 --> 00:25:54,434
Speaker 1: that we can crowdsource to one thing.

497
00:25:54,634 --> 00:25:56,754
Speaker 4: One thing that is in the archive is I don't

498
00:25:56,794 --> 00:26:00,874
Speaker 4: know if you guys notice scrolling, there's the car boots

499
00:26:00,874 --> 00:26:04,354
Speaker 4: a dress, you know, the dress from Suddenly thirty. No,

500
00:26:04,634 --> 00:26:06,754
Speaker 4: you know the dress does the dance to it's like

501
00:26:06,874 --> 00:26:12,394
Speaker 4: a Suddenly thirty. It's got Jennifer Ghanah oh sorry. In

502
00:26:12,394 --> 00:26:15,314
Speaker 4: America it was called thirteen going on this Oh thank you, yes, okay,

503
00:26:15,474 --> 00:26:17,434
Speaker 4: And she has this dress that's like a lot of

504
00:26:17,434 --> 00:26:19,513
Speaker 4: different color and it's like green up here and then

505
00:26:19,554 --> 00:26:22,754
Speaker 4: it's like, yeah, kind of crazy colors. Anyway, I saw

506
00:26:22,794 --> 00:26:24,394
Speaker 4: a dress and I went, that's a dress from Suddenly

507
00:26:24,434 --> 00:26:27,714
Speaker 4: thirty and it is. Gwyneth has a version of that

508
00:26:27,794 --> 00:26:30,154
Speaker 4: dress that's in a different colourway. But I think it's

509
00:26:30,154 --> 00:26:30,914
Speaker 4: like Gucci.

510
00:26:34,034 --> 00:26:36,994
Speaker 3: Now really did look?

511
00:26:37,234 --> 00:26:40,434
Speaker 2: Celebrities all have to make money, I suppose. And another

512
00:26:40,554 --> 00:26:44,154
Speaker 2: celebrity who is finding a new revenue stream is Megan

513
00:26:44,234 --> 00:26:47,314
Speaker 2: Duchess of Sussex. Now you heard it here that Meghan

514
00:26:47,394 --> 00:26:50,634
Speaker 2: is coming to Australia. That has now been confirmed. She

515
00:26:50,914 --> 00:26:54,674
Speaker 2: is speaking at a weekend retreat in could she organized

516
00:26:54,714 --> 00:26:58,434
Speaker 2: by her Best Life. Now, this was initially known as Bestie's.

517
00:26:58,514 --> 00:27:01,514
Speaker 2: It was kind of like Events Retreats, a podcast which

518
00:27:01,594 --> 00:27:05,033
Speaker 2: Jemma O'Neill launched with Jackie Oh. They brought up Gwyneth

519
00:27:05,034 --> 00:27:08,034
Speaker 2: Paltrow was a pair together. They did a treat in Fiji.

520
00:27:08,074 --> 00:27:11,034
Speaker 2: But now, as of a couple of weeks ago, Jackie

521
00:27:11,194 --> 00:27:14,274
Speaker 2: announced she was stepping away from Bestie. She has nothing

522
00:27:14,314 --> 00:27:17,994
Speaker 2: to do with bringing Meghan to Australia, as we speculated

523
00:27:18,034 --> 00:27:20,593
Speaker 2: on the show. We can clear that up. But here's

524
00:27:20,834 --> 00:27:24,674
Speaker 2: Gemma with the news that broke today about Megan coming

525
00:27:24,714 --> 00:27:25,674
Speaker 2: for her Best Life.

526
00:27:25,794 --> 00:27:28,194
Speaker 9: I know what you're all thinking, because I'm thinking the

527
00:27:28,274 --> 00:27:31,554
Speaker 9: same thing, which is how has Meghan Duchess of Sussex

528
00:27:31,634 --> 00:27:36,354
Speaker 9: this incredible woman, gone from Oprah to talking on stage

529
00:27:36,394 --> 00:27:39,274
Speaker 9: with just little old me Gemma in Sydney Holleen.

530
00:27:39,314 --> 00:27:42,914
Speaker 2: Ticket prices start at twenty six one hundred and ninety

531
00:27:42,954 --> 00:27:45,674
Speaker 2: nine dollars for a twin share room for this Couji retreat?

532
00:27:45,714 --> 00:27:47,874
Speaker 2: Are you in? What do you think?

533
00:27:48,634 --> 00:27:52,313
Speaker 1: Barely speak the intersections of all my interests here?

534
00:27:52,514 --> 00:27:54,114
Speaker 2: Are you going to show up with your Gwyneth ring

535
00:27:54,234 --> 00:27:55,114
Speaker 2: Or I used.

536
00:27:55,154 --> 00:27:59,474
Speaker 1: Live in Cooji. Gema knows Gwynneth, she knows Meghan. I

537
00:27:59,474 --> 00:28:02,954
Speaker 1: feel like this is my destiny. It's my destiny. It's

538
00:28:02,994 --> 00:28:05,754
Speaker 1: also disingenuous, Jemma that you're like little old me. She's

539
00:28:05,794 --> 00:28:08,114
Speaker 1: a powerhouse in Australia the media. She used to be

540
00:28:08,474 --> 00:28:12,154
Speaker 1: content director from massive media companies. She's you know, she's

541
00:28:12,314 --> 00:28:16,514
Speaker 1: really a big deal in her own right. I'm fascinated

542
00:28:16,514 --> 00:28:18,914
Speaker 1: by this whole idea, right because it's a woman's retreat.

543
00:28:18,994 --> 00:28:22,674
Speaker 1: You go away so lovely hotel. Although the tickets are expensive,

544
00:28:22,674 --> 00:28:25,594
Speaker 1: when you realize that they include the accommodation and dinners

545
00:28:25,634 --> 00:28:26,994
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, you're like, that's.

546
00:28:27,394 --> 00:28:28,434
Speaker 2: What you're going to.

547
00:28:30,314 --> 00:28:35,714
Speaker 1: I'm practicing. Yeah, how many pairs of shoes that no

548
00:28:35,754 --> 00:28:39,074
Speaker 1: one wants to but I'm fascinated by that because basically

549
00:28:39,114 --> 00:28:41,434
Speaker 1: from Megan's perspective, and I'm sure she's going to do

550
00:28:41,474 --> 00:28:43,074
Speaker 1: other things while she's here because Harry is coming to

551
00:28:43,154 --> 00:28:45,434
Speaker 1: We talked about it on Monday. It's an extension of

552
00:28:45,474 --> 00:28:49,314
Speaker 1: their like faux royal tours where they're traveling. It's not

553
00:28:49,434 --> 00:28:51,354
Speaker 1: quite like a royal tour, but it kind of is.

554
00:28:51,514 --> 00:28:53,874
Speaker 1: They'll probably be a charity component that they're going to do.

555
00:28:53,954 --> 00:28:55,834
Speaker 1: They'll do this, they'll do that, and then Megs just

556
00:28:55,874 --> 00:28:58,514
Speaker 1: has to turn up to the dinner VIP package you

557
00:28:58,554 --> 00:29:02,074
Speaker 1: get a photo with her. It's a really interesting play

558
00:29:02,154 --> 00:29:04,314
Speaker 1: and Jemma says in that piece that they had a

559
00:29:04,434 --> 00:29:07,234
Speaker 1: mutual friend and that's how it connected with the tru

560
00:29:07,394 --> 00:29:11,434
Speaker 1: and everything. It's really interesting. I just I'm dying to

561
00:29:11,554 --> 00:29:13,394
Speaker 1: know if there's going to be a phone man in

562
00:29:13,394 --> 00:29:16,354
Speaker 1: that room, because oh my gosh, what is Meg's gonna say?

563
00:29:16,794 --> 00:29:17,714
Speaker 1: The Ladies of Kuji.

564
00:29:18,274 --> 00:29:21,994
Speaker 4: I reached out to Meghan Markle to see if she

565
00:29:21,994 --> 00:29:24,634
Speaker 4: wants to come on my podcast The Pylon last year.

566
00:29:24,714 --> 00:29:26,914
Speaker 1: No reply, she I mean, and that would have been

567
00:29:26,954 --> 00:29:28,754
Speaker 1: a very good show for her because she has had

568
00:29:28,794 --> 00:29:29,954
Speaker 1: considerable Pylon.

569
00:29:30,274 --> 00:29:33,234
Speaker 4: I'd like her to know that that invitation is still there.

570
00:29:33,274 --> 00:29:36,754
Speaker 4: There is no money on the table, but I did

571
00:29:36,754 --> 00:29:39,434
Speaker 4: the maths because sometimes I like to go full business women.

572
00:29:39,674 --> 00:29:44,114
Speaker 4: So there are three hundred seats available, so it's like

573
00:29:44,194 --> 00:29:48,314
Speaker 4: two thy six hundred, but some are more. Yeah, some

574
00:29:48,394 --> 00:29:51,154
Speaker 4: are like three thousand, two hundred ish, and I think

575
00:29:51,194 --> 00:29:55,274
Speaker 4: that's for the group table photo with Megan. So I

576
00:29:55,314 --> 00:29:59,434
Speaker 4: was like, if you do three hundred people times three thousand,

577
00:29:59,554 --> 00:30:02,834
Speaker 4: which say that's like the average cost, that's nine hundred

578
00:30:02,954 --> 00:30:07,754
Speaker 4: thousand dollars, which, Gemma, you're amazing, you're a girl bo However,

579
00:30:08,154 --> 00:30:10,434
Speaker 4: then I read fine print. I think a bunch of

580
00:30:10,434 --> 00:30:13,834
Speaker 4: the costs are going to charity Lifeline, So I'm like, what,

581
00:30:14,594 --> 00:30:16,474
Speaker 4: I don't understand how people run businesses.

582
00:30:16,674 --> 00:30:19,474
Speaker 2: It's also part of this big trend right now for

583
00:30:19,754 --> 00:30:23,474
Speaker 2: women going on holiday on these kind of like pre

584
00:30:23,794 --> 00:30:28,114
Speaker 2: organized group trips. So the Royal Adjacent Influence et Elizabeth

585
00:30:28,154 --> 00:30:31,554
Speaker 2: Holmes on Instagram has done a bunch of these trips

586
00:30:31,554 --> 00:30:35,114
Speaker 2: to London to kind of shepherd people around Buckingham Palace

587
00:30:35,154 --> 00:30:37,914
Speaker 2: and other places in London. At first, I felt like

588
00:30:37,954 --> 00:30:40,314
Speaker 2: there was nothing I couldn't imagine anything worse than going

589
00:30:40,314 --> 00:30:43,074
Speaker 2: on a trip with like women I didn't know, but

590
00:30:43,194 --> 00:30:45,634
Speaker 2: now I'm kind of seeing that there's something attractive about

591
00:30:45,674 --> 00:30:48,714
Speaker 2: not bringing any the emotional baggage of your regular girls trip.

592
00:30:48,834 --> 00:30:52,034
Speaker 1: It's true, like there's a lot of hiking. In fact,

593
00:30:52,434 --> 00:30:54,874
Speaker 1: there are these hiking trips you can do and sometimes

594
00:30:55,274 --> 00:30:57,554
Speaker 1: like a semi famous person will come, like they might

595
00:30:57,634 --> 00:31:00,314
Speaker 1: want an author to come, or actually Sally Hawer did one.

596
00:31:00,514 --> 00:31:02,234
Speaker 1: You can go and you can walk for a few days,

597
00:31:02,234 --> 00:31:04,674
Speaker 1: and there might be And the thing is is that

598
00:31:04,754 --> 00:31:06,834
Speaker 1: I'm just I think it would be a very fast

599
00:31:06,874 --> 00:31:10,114
Speaker 1: track getting to know somebody properly, because you are never

600
00:31:10,194 --> 00:31:13,114
Speaker 1: more you than like you're halfway up a mountain. You

601
00:31:13,194 --> 00:31:16,194
Speaker 1: need we are you going behind that bush? It starts

602
00:31:16,234 --> 00:31:19,474
Speaker 1: to rain, then it's freezing cold, like you're going to

603
00:31:19,514 --> 00:31:21,234
Speaker 1: get a fast track to Megan if she was on

604
00:31:21,274 --> 00:31:23,114
Speaker 1: that walk with you. All I'm going to say is

605
00:31:23,154 --> 00:31:25,754
Speaker 1: whether or not she makes someone call a helicopter or

606
00:31:25,794 --> 00:31:27,754
Speaker 1: whether she's going to go Can you stand in front

607
00:31:27,754 --> 00:31:29,274
Speaker 1: of this bush while I help this coat?

608
00:31:31,154 --> 00:31:33,554
Speaker 2: Okay, final bit of celebrity news. There's been a lot

609
00:31:33,594 --> 00:31:37,274
Speaker 2: going on. Kyle has released a statement. This is Carson Adolans.

610
00:31:37,314 --> 00:31:39,874
Speaker 2: Of course, He's released a statement in this latest kind

611
00:31:39,874 --> 00:31:43,514
Speaker 2: of like stash that's happening between him, Jackie Oh and

612
00:31:43,554 --> 00:31:46,754
Speaker 2: their radio network ARN. And the statement means a lot

613
00:31:46,794 --> 00:31:49,914
Speaker 2: of eyebrows because he made clear in this statement that

614
00:31:49,994 --> 00:31:53,794
Speaker 2: he blames ARN for the rupshot of this show. He

615
00:31:53,954 --> 00:31:56,394
Speaker 2: says that Jackie is one of the most important people

616
00:31:56,434 --> 00:31:59,514
Speaker 2: in his life. He was very apologetic about the argument

617
00:31:59,554 --> 00:32:02,194
Speaker 2: that they had on air. News reports say that the

618
00:32:02,234 --> 00:32:05,834
Speaker 2: two are now talking and friendly again, and basically he

619
00:32:06,114 --> 00:32:09,394
Speaker 2: outlines the fact that he says ARN forbade him from

620
00:32:09,434 --> 00:32:12,394
Speaker 2: talking to Jackie and that he is committed to his

621
00:32:12,434 --> 00:32:14,634
Speaker 2: contract which runs through twenty thirty four and which will

622
00:32:14,634 --> 00:32:16,634
Speaker 2: pay him a hundred million dollars if he fulfills that.

623
00:32:17,154 --> 00:32:21,994
Speaker 2: So he appeals to ARN directly to do the right

624
00:32:22,074 --> 00:32:24,514
Speaker 2: thing and to honor the contract. At this point, I

625
00:32:24,634 --> 00:32:28,594
Speaker 2: am so confused, Claire. This feels like a special subject.

626
00:32:28,994 --> 00:32:29,874
Speaker 2: What is going on?

627
00:32:30,074 --> 00:32:32,594
Speaker 3: I'm very very confused.

628
00:32:32,754 --> 00:32:35,394
Speaker 4: My favorite thing about this is, like you kind of

629
00:32:35,394 --> 00:32:38,514
Speaker 4: see the quotes from the statement, and then some places

630
00:32:38,514 --> 00:32:40,674
Speaker 4: have kind of posted an image of the statement and

631
00:32:40,714 --> 00:32:44,074
Speaker 4: it's on King Kyle letterhead because that's his company, and

632
00:32:44,114 --> 00:32:47,474
Speaker 4: I'm like, who has a company called King Kyle and

633
00:32:47,514 --> 00:32:50,714
Speaker 4: the logo is appalling and I'm my side mate.

634
00:32:50,914 --> 00:32:52,594
Speaker 1: Sidebar for one second. You know how we were talking

635
00:32:52,594 --> 00:32:55,594
Speaker 1: about Gwenneth thorpsning offer stuff. Yeah, all over the media

636
00:32:55,634 --> 00:32:58,034
Speaker 1: before this story broke. Is that Kyle is selling one

637
00:32:58,034 --> 00:32:58,714
Speaker 1: of his houses.

638
00:32:58,914 --> 00:32:59,834
Speaker 3: Oh which one.

639
00:32:59,794 --> 00:33:04,914
Speaker 1: Really fancy, big sprawling ranchy place in northwestern Sydney somewhere,

640
00:33:05,434 --> 00:33:08,754
Speaker 1: and he's been participating in the publicity for it to

641
00:33:08,834 --> 00:33:11,714
Speaker 1: hike up the price. So you get to see this

642
00:33:11,874 --> 00:33:14,594
Speaker 1: like how it's been done and all the luxurious finishes

643
00:33:14,634 --> 00:33:16,154
Speaker 1: and all this. It feels like maybe we're in an

644
00:33:16,194 --> 00:33:20,754
Speaker 1: era where the celebrity cash grab is fine as well.

645
00:33:20,834 --> 00:33:23,674
Speaker 1: If they're opening up their luxurious door to you, is

646
00:33:23,714 --> 00:33:27,154
Speaker 1: actually like they're embracing it rather than pushing it away. Anyway,

647
00:33:27,194 --> 00:33:29,754
Speaker 1: I digress. Sorry, Claire, please continue to do analysis.

648
00:33:29,834 --> 00:33:31,194
Speaker 3: Can't believe I haven't been served.

649
00:33:31,234 --> 00:33:34,634
Speaker 1: That is pretty awesome. Yeah, I don't think it go

650
00:33:34,754 --> 00:33:35,554
Speaker 1: funb we would get us.

651
00:33:36,994 --> 00:33:40,354
Speaker 4: My algorithm has failed me. But I'm really confused about

652
00:33:40,394 --> 00:33:42,794
Speaker 4: this because, yeah, so Kyle and Jackie are now on

653
00:33:42,834 --> 00:33:43,874
Speaker 4: the same side.

654
00:33:44,154 --> 00:33:48,874
Speaker 2: And well, we don't know that Jackie feels that way.

655
00:33:49,634 --> 00:33:52,834
Speaker 4: So the fact that she came out and said I

656
00:33:52,914 --> 00:33:54,714
Speaker 4: did not quit. I did not resign.

657
00:33:54,834 --> 00:33:56,954
Speaker 2: No. But you know what's interesting is her statement also

658
00:33:57,074 --> 00:33:59,314
Speaker 2: did not say anything about how Kyle's her best friend.

659
00:33:59,514 --> 00:34:01,314
Speaker 1: No, it's not that it didn't.

660
00:34:01,394 --> 00:34:02,274
Speaker 2: That's very true.

661
00:34:02,354 --> 00:34:05,474
Speaker 4: But he seemed quite confident in putting out his word

662
00:34:05,594 --> 00:34:08,554
Speaker 4: that they're getting along really well and things are fine.

663
00:34:08,834 --> 00:34:11,234
Speaker 1: He didn't say that. He said that he loved her,

664
00:34:11,274 --> 00:34:13,594
Speaker 1: that they'd always been best friends, and he'd been banned

665
00:34:13,634 --> 00:34:15,393
Speaker 1: from contacting her is what he said.

666
00:34:15,554 --> 00:34:18,914
Speaker 4: But he said basically they should have been given time

667
00:34:19,234 --> 00:34:21,433
Speaker 4: to work it out that Aarn should have.

668
00:34:21,594 --> 00:34:24,234
Speaker 2: What we definitely know is that he wants to present

669
00:34:24,354 --> 00:34:28,154
Speaker 2: him and Jackie as a united front against aiar Ran.

670
00:34:28,834 --> 00:34:31,873
Speaker 4: What I find a little bit funny about this is

671
00:34:31,914 --> 00:34:35,794
Speaker 4: that Kyle and Jackie are very in their radio career.

672
00:34:35,874 --> 00:34:39,194
Speaker 4: There have been moments like this, as we've discussed, where like,

673
00:34:39,954 --> 00:34:41,834
Speaker 4: you know, someone will get annoyed and walk out of

674
00:34:41,874 --> 00:34:44,393
Speaker 4: the studio, and there was a time where he was

675
00:34:45,394 --> 00:34:47,194
Speaker 4: sick for a while and he'd be like, where the

676
00:34:47,234 --> 00:34:50,154
Speaker 4: hell's Kyle, like nobody knows, or he'd work from home for.

677
00:34:50,114 --> 00:34:50,794
Speaker 2: Ages or whatever.

678
00:34:51,234 --> 00:34:55,433
Speaker 4: And I almost feel like with this AARN have called

679
00:34:55,474 --> 00:34:57,433
Speaker 4: their bluff a little bit that It's like Jackie wasn't

680
00:34:57,434 --> 00:35:00,074
Speaker 4: going to come into work for however long because she

681
00:35:00,354 --> 00:35:02,394
Speaker 4: didn't feel like she wanted to be in the studio

682
00:35:02,514 --> 00:35:05,393
Speaker 4: with Kyle. But this is the first time aarn have

683
00:35:05,474 --> 00:35:09,114
Speaker 4: actually said, well, that means you're not fulfilling your contract.

684
00:35:10,234 --> 00:35:13,674
Speaker 4: We talked on Monday about the Iranian women's soccer team

685
00:35:13,874 --> 00:35:17,274
Speaker 4: refusing to sing the national anthem before their opening match

686
00:35:17,354 --> 00:35:19,514
Speaker 4: for the Asian Cup on the Gold Coast last week.

687
00:35:20,394 --> 00:35:24,194
Speaker 4: Iranian state media labeled them wartime traders and there were

688
00:35:24,194 --> 00:35:27,154
Speaker 4: fears for their safety, even as they did sing the

689
00:35:27,274 --> 00:35:31,794
Speaker 4: national anthem before their two subsequent matches, But as their

690
00:35:31,794 --> 00:35:35,754
Speaker 4: scheduled departure drew close out, there were growing concerns that

691
00:35:35,794 --> 00:35:39,674
Speaker 4: the women would face persecution upon returning home, and there

692
00:35:39,674 --> 00:35:43,234
Speaker 4: were strong calls for the government to intervene. Now at

693
00:35:43,234 --> 00:35:46,514
Speaker 4: the time of recording, a total of seven members of

694
00:35:46,554 --> 00:35:50,514
Speaker 4: the thirteen player squad have been granted asylum in Australia.

695
00:35:51,114 --> 00:35:53,994
Speaker 4: Home Affairs Minister Tony Burke, who was at the airport

696
00:35:54,314 --> 00:35:57,074
Speaker 4: when it was their scheduled flight to leave, said that

697
00:35:57,594 --> 00:36:02,194
Speaker 4: Border Force officials made multiple representations to team members before

698
00:36:02,194 --> 00:36:06,234
Speaker 4: they departed Sydney, including in private meetings. So he said

699
00:36:06,314 --> 00:36:08,554
Speaker 4: every single member of that team was put in a

700
00:36:08,594 --> 00:36:12,913
Speaker 4: situation where they were just with Home Affairs officials, where

701
00:36:12,954 --> 00:36:15,514
Speaker 4: the people who might put pressure on them were nowhere

702
00:36:15,554 --> 00:36:18,154
Speaker 4: near them at all, and they were given a choice.

703
00:36:18,634 --> 00:36:21,754
Speaker 4: And that's important because advocates have said that the players

704
00:36:21,794 --> 00:36:26,634
Speaker 4: who returned to Iran possibly faced execution and their families

705
00:36:26,634 --> 00:36:31,354
Speaker 4: face retaliation from the regime, but also that their minders

706
00:36:31,514 --> 00:36:36,194
Speaker 4: who were with them or their security they were Iranian security,

707
00:36:36,274 --> 00:36:37,514
Speaker 4: so they may have been pressured.

708
00:36:37,674 --> 00:36:40,394
Speaker 2: So they made appeals like, for instance, to baggage handlers

709
00:36:40,474 --> 00:36:43,993
Speaker 2: at Sydney Airport to not get involved with handling the baggage.

710
00:36:44,074 --> 00:36:46,794
Speaker 2: They asked conscious pilots on their initial flight to get

711
00:36:46,794 --> 00:36:50,794
Speaker 2: involved and not facilitate their removal from Australia. Things like that.

712
00:36:51,434 --> 00:36:57,714
Speaker 1: It's been an unbelievably complicated operation right to intervene in this.

713
00:36:58,274 --> 00:37:01,394
Speaker 4: For me, as a new story, this feels very unprecedented

714
00:37:01,434 --> 00:37:06,033
Speaker 4: that a soccer team would become national news because they're

715
00:37:06,034 --> 00:37:08,274
Speaker 4: seeking asylum in the country they've come to play in.

716
00:37:08,834 --> 00:37:11,794
Speaker 4: But it goes into the domain of modern slavery and

717
00:37:11,874 --> 00:37:15,114
Speaker 4: human trafficking, and because of those science that they were

718
00:37:15,114 --> 00:37:18,513
Speaker 4: members of the team and their support crew being coerced

719
00:37:18,794 --> 00:37:24,074
Speaker 4: to return to Iran. That then constitutes exit trafficking under

720
00:37:24,114 --> 00:37:27,394
Speaker 4: Australian criminal law, which is punishable by up to twelve

721
00:37:27,434 --> 00:37:31,954
Speaker 4: years imprisonment. It's the sort of story where I think

722
00:37:32,234 --> 00:37:35,714
Speaker 4: Australia has done something really brave.

723
00:37:36,154 --> 00:37:38,674
Speaker 1: I one hundred percent agree. And what has been interesting

724
00:37:38,914 --> 00:37:44,913
Speaker 1: from a sort of media cultural perspective is watching the

725
00:37:45,034 --> 00:37:48,354
Speaker 1: various players deciding what the public mood was on this,

726
00:37:48,994 --> 00:37:52,554
Speaker 1: because there are at the moment, as we know, discussions

727
00:37:52,594 --> 00:37:54,873
Speaker 1: about visas and who gets to come into Australia and

728
00:37:54,914 --> 00:37:57,834
Speaker 1: who doesn't, and how we feel about people seeking asylum

729
00:37:57,874 --> 00:38:02,114
Speaker 1: in Australia is a hot political topic that is often

730
00:38:02,234 --> 00:38:06,674
Speaker 1: used as a political excuse upon football to be kicked

731
00:38:06,714 --> 00:38:12,474
Speaker 1: around and you know, people's individual lives and dignity removed

732
00:38:12,554 --> 00:38:14,554
Speaker 1: so that we can have blanket statements about how we

733
00:38:14,594 --> 00:38:17,794
Speaker 1: feel about this. And so it was interesting to see

734
00:38:18,074 --> 00:38:21,513
Speaker 1: that as the story unfolded over the weekend and into

735
00:38:21,514 --> 00:38:22,194
Speaker 1: this week.

736
00:38:22,674 --> 00:38:23,114
Speaker 2: There was some.

737
00:38:23,074 --> 00:38:25,834
Speaker 1: Criticism early on about the government aren't doing enough, but obviously,

738
00:38:25,914 --> 00:38:27,834
Speaker 1: as we have learned the government we're making a lot

739
00:38:27,834 --> 00:38:30,714
Speaker 1: of moves behind the scenes where it's incredibly sensitive you

740
00:38:30,754 --> 00:38:34,393
Speaker 1: could almost sense that certain portions of the political well,

741
00:38:34,434 --> 00:38:36,393
Speaker 1: I guess some players were kind of going, how do

742
00:38:36,434 --> 00:38:38,434
Speaker 1: people feel about this? Should we be against this? Should

743
00:38:38,474 --> 00:38:40,034
Speaker 1: we be for this? Should we be trying to help?

744
00:38:40,074 --> 00:38:42,514
Speaker 1: Shouldn't we be trying to help? And what became apparent

745
00:38:42,594 --> 00:38:46,034
Speaker 1: quite quickly is that the Australian mood on this was

746
00:38:46,314 --> 00:38:48,354
Speaker 1: we need to help those women and if those women

747
00:38:48,394 --> 00:38:50,913
Speaker 1: want to stay here, we need to facilitate it. And

748
00:38:50,994 --> 00:38:54,074
Speaker 1: everybody backed off. So this move has now got, you know,

749
00:38:54,194 --> 00:38:58,154
Speaker 1: support from all political parties. There are obviously still some

750
00:38:58,234 --> 00:39:00,514
Speaker 1: serious concerns about the women who left and whether or

751
00:39:00,554 --> 00:39:02,074
Speaker 1: not enough has been done on all those things, but

752
00:39:02,674 --> 00:39:06,393
Speaker 1: it seems that there has been a consensus for once

753
00:39:06,674 --> 00:39:10,834
Speaker 1: about something about people's individual rights and dignity.

754
00:39:10,474 --> 00:39:15,114
Speaker 4: Because we do see in certain political circles the kind

755
00:39:15,154 --> 00:39:21,074
Speaker 4: of demonization of people seeking asylum, and I think what

756
00:39:21,154 --> 00:39:24,794
Speaker 4: this story has really done is humanized their stories.

757
00:39:24,874 --> 00:39:25,593
Speaker 3: Like we've just seen.

758
00:39:25,634 --> 00:39:28,634
Speaker 4: We saw their faces, and we saw we saw them

759
00:39:28,674 --> 00:39:33,154
Speaker 4: on a football field, and we got to know their names,

760
00:39:33,314 --> 00:39:37,034
Speaker 4: and we saw them do an act of not singing

761
00:39:37,074 --> 00:39:40,194
Speaker 4: their national anthem and then learnt what the consequences could

762
00:39:40,194 --> 00:39:42,913
Speaker 4: be if they returned home, and I really hope that's

763
00:39:43,074 --> 00:39:46,274
Speaker 4: done a lot for kind of the narrative of these

764
00:39:46,274 --> 00:39:50,274
Speaker 4: are always real people with real stories, and it's a

765
00:39:50,354 --> 00:39:51,434
Speaker 4: very sensitive issue.

766
00:39:51,954 --> 00:39:54,513
Speaker 1: In a moment, we're going to attempt to make some

767
00:39:54,794 --> 00:40:07,274
Speaker 1: bad news seem really good. Sometimes are that loud. We're

768
00:40:07,274 --> 00:40:10,114
Speaker 1: in the business of making lemonade from lemons, of putting

769
00:40:10,194 --> 00:40:13,314
Speaker 1: some of Meghan's favorite flower sprinkles on a pool.

770
00:40:13,834 --> 00:40:15,674
Speaker 2: Sometimes that's what we're doing.

771
00:40:16,034 --> 00:40:17,834
Speaker 1: So it is with this story that was sent to

772
00:40:17,874 --> 00:40:21,394
Speaker 1: me very many times over the weekend. Actually it sounds bleak,

773
00:40:21,554 --> 00:40:24,074
Speaker 1: but just hold on because we might have found a

774
00:40:24,114 --> 00:40:27,594
Speaker 1: bright side. The headline on an article in The Guardian reads,

775
00:40:28,194 --> 00:40:31,994
Speaker 1: jen Zed males are twice as likely as baby boomers

776
00:40:32,034 --> 00:40:36,314
Speaker 1: to believe that wives should obey their husbands. Not a

777
00:40:36,314 --> 00:40:40,154
Speaker 1: lot to celebrate there. I wouldn't have thought the details

778
00:40:40,194 --> 00:40:42,674
Speaker 1: of this feel good story are almost a third of

779
00:40:42,754 --> 00:40:45,874
Speaker 1: Generation Zed men and boys think a wife should obey

780
00:40:45,954 --> 00:40:49,234
Speaker 1: her husband, according to a global survey of twenty three

781
00:40:49,274 --> 00:40:52,954
Speaker 1: thousand people. In the twenty nine country survey, which included

782
00:40:52,954 --> 00:40:55,874
Speaker 1: Great Britain, the US, Brazil, Australia and India, it found

783
00:40:55,874 --> 00:40:58,994
Speaker 1: that jen Zed males, so those are men born between

784
00:40:59,154 --> 00:41:03,473
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven and twenty twelve were twice as likely

785
00:41:03,514 --> 00:41:06,433
Speaker 1: as baby boomer men, and Boomers out Loud has always

786
00:41:06,434 --> 00:41:08,433
Speaker 1: asked us, this woman to generations, always like, I don't

787
00:41:08,474 --> 00:41:11,114
Speaker 1: know what generation I am. Boomers are born between nineteen

788
00:41:11,194 --> 00:41:14,394
Speaker 1: forty six and nineteen sixty four. So jen Z males

789
00:41:14,474 --> 00:41:17,234
Speaker 1: are twice as likely as baby boomers to have traditional

790
00:41:17,354 --> 00:41:21,474
Speaker 1: views on decision making within a marriage, and even among women,

791
00:41:21,714 --> 00:41:24,674
Speaker 1: eighteen percent of Gen Z and only six percent of

792
00:41:24,754 --> 00:41:28,154
Speaker 1: baby boomers agreed this is grim, right, But we've all

793
00:41:28,194 --> 00:41:30,354
Speaker 1: got enough to worry about, and if it's adding to

794
00:41:30,394 --> 00:41:32,154
Speaker 1: your anxiety, we're here to help in a couple of ways.

795
00:41:32,154 --> 00:41:35,154
Speaker 1: To push back ever so slightly on these stats, because

796
00:41:35,194 --> 00:41:38,074
Speaker 1: there are other studies out there with slightly better news,

797
00:41:38,314 --> 00:41:40,553
Speaker 1: and also to give all the good women out there

798
00:41:40,594 --> 00:41:43,834
Speaker 1: some excellent bits of info to throw at the young

799
00:41:43,874 --> 00:41:48,154
Speaker 1: men in their lives about why equal partnerships are much better, sexier,

800
00:41:48,194 --> 00:41:52,354
Speaker 1: even some might say than your favorite jacked Manisphere influencer

801
00:41:52,434 --> 00:41:54,913
Speaker 1: may be suggesting, Amelia, what have you got for us?

802
00:41:54,954 --> 00:41:58,074
Speaker 2: All right, let's pick some cherries. So there's a very

803
00:41:58,114 --> 00:42:02,433
Speaker 2: famous study from twenty sixteen about chore play yes, that's

804
00:42:02,514 --> 00:42:05,634
Speaker 2: the name of the study, and it showed that when

805
00:42:06,074 --> 00:42:10,473
Speaker 2: household tasks are divided equally, it results in more sex

806
00:42:10,514 --> 00:42:13,794
Speaker 2: for heterosexual couples. I'm going to bring some numbers for you.

807
00:42:14,714 --> 00:42:19,954
Speaker 2: Heterosexual couples who divided tasks equally had sex six point

808
00:42:19,954 --> 00:42:23,393
Speaker 2: eight times per month. Remember that six point eight. That

809
00:42:23,474 --> 00:42:26,914
Speaker 2: point eight. That's important. The couples that did not divide

810
00:42:26,954 --> 00:42:30,993
Speaker 2: the tasks equally and fell along more traditional lines had

811
00:42:31,034 --> 00:42:34,594
Speaker 2: sex only six point three times per month. They are

812
00:42:34,634 --> 00:42:38,474
Speaker 2: missing out on half a sexual in half a sexual

813
00:42:39,154 --> 00:42:41,354
Speaker 2: So throw that at the gen Z men.

814
00:42:41,794 --> 00:42:44,994
Speaker 1: You will get laid one half more times.

815
00:42:46,874 --> 00:42:49,114
Speaker 2: Now, interestingly, that's a really big change from a few

816
00:42:49,154 --> 00:42:51,434
Speaker 2: years before that. So that study was in twenty sixteen,

817
00:42:52,074 --> 00:42:54,513
Speaker 2: and studies that were done like just a few years

818
00:42:54,514 --> 00:42:58,034
Speaker 2: before that showed that actually more traditional roles led to

819
00:42:58,114 --> 00:43:01,674
Speaker 2: more sex. So what this shows is attitudes are changing,

820
00:43:01,994 --> 00:43:06,314
Speaker 2: and they're changing remarkably quickly. I also want to point

821
00:43:06,314 --> 00:43:10,074
Speaker 2: out that MILLENNIU or men often buck this trend towards

822
00:43:10,074 --> 00:43:12,594
Speaker 2: getting more conservative as you get older.

823
00:43:12,434 --> 00:43:14,194
Speaker 1: So they're in the middle of those two generations.

824
00:43:14,274 --> 00:43:17,154
Speaker 2: I was just nineteen eighty to nineteen ninety four or thereabouts.

825
00:43:17,514 --> 00:43:20,554
Speaker 2: An Australian study shows that millennial men are actually the

826
00:43:20,594 --> 00:43:24,593
Speaker 2: first generation of men in Australian recorded history to move

827
00:43:24,754 --> 00:43:29,394
Speaker 2: further left as they age. That's really unusual progress because

828
00:43:29,434 --> 00:43:32,674
Speaker 2: mostly we think that as people get older they become

829
00:43:32,674 --> 00:43:36,194
Speaker 2: more conservative. But Australian millennial men are showing that that's

830
00:43:36,274 --> 00:43:37,914
Speaker 2: not true. Do we feel better already?

831
00:43:37,994 --> 00:43:41,074
Speaker 4: Okay? I like that because the idea is gen Z

832
00:43:41,274 --> 00:43:44,234
Speaker 4: will move into that age group that the millennial men.

833
00:43:44,434 --> 00:43:44,634
Speaker 7: Yeah.

834
00:43:44,754 --> 00:43:46,594
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a bit of a lot of

835
00:43:46,674 --> 00:43:50,994
Speaker 1: theorizing in how young gen z's think relationships work, whereas

836
00:43:51,034 --> 00:43:54,674
Speaker 1: there are some practicality in the millennial perspective.

837
00:43:54,714 --> 00:44:01,194
Speaker 4: Because my theory on this is that gen Z men,

838
00:44:01,954 --> 00:44:06,954
Speaker 4: so they would be aged at the moment maybe like that.

839
00:44:07,514 --> 00:44:10,474
Speaker 1: Let's do some maths with so, yeah, let's do some maths. Okay.

840
00:44:10,514 --> 00:44:13,634
Speaker 1: So gen ZEDs are born between nineteen ninety seven and

841
00:44:13,634 --> 00:44:16,074
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, less than as.

842
00:44:15,954 --> 00:44:21,034
Speaker 2: A general rule, millennial men are currently raising kids, yeah,

843
00:44:21,074 --> 00:44:25,354
Speaker 2: thirty and gen Z men are like making their forays

844
00:44:25,354 --> 00:44:26,914
Speaker 2: into the workplace exactly.

845
00:44:27,594 --> 00:44:32,474
Speaker 4: So my theory on this is that in life, your

846
00:44:32,714 --> 00:44:37,154
Speaker 4: views can be really rigid before you're confronted with reality.

847
00:44:37,434 --> 00:44:40,434
Speaker 4: So That's why my TikTok is full of really confident

848
00:44:40,554 --> 00:44:44,554
Speaker 4: twenty year olds telling me about whether to have kids,

849
00:44:44,594 --> 00:44:47,554
Speaker 4: how to parent, how to be in the workforce, all

850
00:44:47,594 --> 00:44:49,274
Speaker 4: of that. And you look at it and go, oh,

851
00:44:49,314 --> 00:44:51,714
Speaker 4: my god, that's so sweet. You have such firm opinions

852
00:44:51,714 --> 00:44:52,834
Speaker 4: because you haven't experienced it.

853
00:44:52,994 --> 00:44:56,914
Speaker 1: And lots of young men saying definitive things about masculine

854
00:44:56,954 --> 00:45:00,114
Speaker 1: and feminine energy in a relationship, but they haven't met

855
00:45:00,154 --> 00:45:01,274
Speaker 1: any actual women yet.

856
00:45:01,354 --> 00:45:01,834
Speaker 3: Exactly.

857
00:45:01,994 --> 00:45:04,634
Speaker 4: So, the men in my life that I have heard

858
00:45:04,834 --> 00:45:08,953
Speaker 4: express quite conservative views about men and women, I look

859
00:45:08,994 --> 00:45:12,873
Speaker 4: at them and think, Ah, your opinion will change if

860
00:45:12,874 --> 00:45:15,914
Speaker 4: you're a heterosexual man, for example, your opinion will change

861
00:45:16,434 --> 00:45:18,913
Speaker 4: when you get in a long term relationship with a

862
00:45:18,914 --> 00:45:22,914
Speaker 4: woman and you see how life works. You see how

863
00:45:23,034 --> 00:45:26,034
Speaker 4: she builds a career and then has a child and

864
00:45:26,074 --> 00:45:28,714
Speaker 4: then has to take a break from that career, and

865
00:45:28,914 --> 00:45:34,873
Speaker 4: how that actually sets you up into quite unequal positions.

866
00:45:35,354 --> 00:45:38,914
Speaker 4: And I love the fact that we saw in this

867
00:45:39,034 --> 00:45:43,154
Speaker 4: study that boomer men they have such stronger ideas on

868
00:45:43,234 --> 00:45:45,594
Speaker 4: equality with their partners. And I'm like, because they've seen it,

869
00:45:45,634 --> 00:45:48,194
Speaker 4: they've lived it, they've had their partners with them, and

870
00:45:48,274 --> 00:45:50,393
Speaker 4: by the end of that as they're you know, not

871
00:45:50,514 --> 00:45:52,354
Speaker 4: nearing the end. My mum would kill me if I've

872
00:45:52,354 --> 00:45:55,554
Speaker 4: said that, But as they've lived decades and decades of it,

873
00:45:55,834 --> 00:45:58,194
Speaker 4: they're able to look at their female partners and go,

874
00:45:58,394 --> 00:46:01,274
Speaker 4: she's freaking remarkable, she's amazing.

875
00:46:00,834 --> 00:46:03,714
Speaker 1: All these incredible things. The other thing to note, though,

876
00:46:03,754 --> 00:46:06,034
Speaker 1: is the boomers are very good at saying that stuff,

877
00:46:06,474 --> 00:46:10,433
Speaker 1: but at studies show that millennial and Gen Z dads

878
00:46:10,474 --> 00:46:12,234
Speaker 1: are actually doing more dadding. So I know we're talking

879
00:46:12,274 --> 00:46:14,194
Speaker 1: a lot about marriage and dadding and parenting here, but

880
00:46:14,234 --> 00:46:16,954
Speaker 1: that's because this study was all about the views on

881
00:46:17,154 --> 00:46:19,953
Speaker 1: how marriages should rock and whether women should obey their

882
00:46:19,994 --> 00:46:22,994
Speaker 1: partners and stuff. Millennial and Gen Z dads have increased

883
00:46:23,034 --> 00:46:26,354
Speaker 1: the time devoted to caregiving and household tasks by roughly

884
00:46:26,554 --> 00:46:30,993
Speaker 1: three times compared to their own father's generations. So they

885
00:46:31,034 --> 00:46:34,913
Speaker 1: are doing more hands on parenting. Because if we're talking

886
00:46:34,914 --> 00:46:38,433
Speaker 1: about ways to sell equal partnerships to young men, because

887
00:46:38,474 --> 00:46:40,473
Speaker 1: I think we all know that there's a lot of

888
00:46:40,474 --> 00:46:43,354
Speaker 1: toxic information online. We've seen the rise of the manisphere,

889
00:46:43,354 --> 00:46:45,473
Speaker 1: We've seen the rise of those kind of influences. We've

890
00:46:45,474 --> 00:46:47,433
Speaker 1: seen it on maths. We've argued about that and whether

891
00:46:47,514 --> 00:46:49,393
Speaker 1: or not that should have been there, blah blah blah.

892
00:46:49,634 --> 00:46:52,873
Speaker 1: That shows you it has gone very mainstream. But what

893
00:46:52,914 --> 00:46:55,194
Speaker 1: we actually need to do if we want men to

894
00:46:55,234 --> 00:46:57,953
Speaker 1: have more favorable views about equal partnerships is tell them

895
00:46:57,954 --> 00:47:00,354
Speaker 1: why they're great. And so, to Amelia's point, they might

896
00:47:00,394 --> 00:47:02,154
Speaker 1: get more sexualis for sex.

897
00:47:02,994 --> 00:47:05,034
Speaker 2: If you take nothing away from this conversation.

898
00:47:05,674 --> 00:47:08,993
Speaker 1: Also, more equal partnershi give men more freedom to very

899
00:47:09,114 --> 00:47:11,834
Speaker 1: locked in gender roles in prison everybody, right, So, there

900
00:47:11,834 --> 00:47:13,554
Speaker 1: are plenty of men in the world who don't want

901
00:47:13,554 --> 00:47:18,514
Speaker 1: to be the entirely responsible for the financial and protective

902
00:47:18,554 --> 00:47:20,913
Speaker 1: safety of their families, who would like more flexibility in

903
00:47:20,954 --> 00:47:23,393
Speaker 1: their lives, who would like to share things, who would

904
00:47:23,514 --> 00:47:25,354
Speaker 1: like to live with a woman who had opinions of

905
00:47:25,394 --> 00:47:27,114
Speaker 1: our own and had interesting conversations.

906
00:47:27,434 --> 00:47:28,114
Speaker 2: I think half.

907
00:47:30,154 --> 00:47:33,314
Speaker 1: It's like, I think it's the idea that somehow we

908
00:47:33,394 --> 00:47:37,314
Speaker 1: have to unpick this very conflict heavy idea that the

909
00:47:37,354 --> 00:47:39,433
Speaker 1: manosphere likes to prey on, which is that every game

910
00:47:39,474 --> 00:47:41,473
Speaker 1: for a woman is a loss from man. Rather than

911
00:47:41,474 --> 00:47:44,393
Speaker 1: that maybe it's a gain for both of you. And

912
00:47:44,474 --> 00:47:46,474
Speaker 1: I think we also need some positive role models. I

913
00:47:46,474 --> 00:47:49,514
Speaker 1: would like to present to the hypermasculine young men on

914
00:47:49,634 --> 00:47:52,874
Speaker 1: Nathan Cleary. He is a new South Wales rugby league player.

915
00:47:52,874 --> 00:47:56,033
Speaker 1: You don't get more alpha than that guy. And he

916
00:47:56,314 --> 00:47:59,274
Speaker 1: loves loudly as m Vernon would say, Mary Fowler, who's

917
00:47:59,274 --> 00:48:02,554
Speaker 1: one of the Matilda's, and that relationship all over their socials,

918
00:48:02,554 --> 00:48:04,954
Speaker 1: how much they love each other. She's amazing, he's amazing.

919
00:48:05,274 --> 00:48:08,194
Speaker 1: Is exactly what we need. Lots of flooding out all

920
00:48:08,314 --> 00:48:08,913
Speaker 1: this like.

921
00:48:09,274 --> 00:48:12,514
Speaker 10: Ooh, high value woman, I'll do you know, I like

922
00:48:12,554 --> 00:48:14,674
Speaker 10: to be the boss in my house. Oh, she'll have

923
00:48:14,714 --> 00:48:16,514
Speaker 10: to give up that kick in football around if we

924
00:48:16,554 --> 00:48:19,434
Speaker 10: got married, Like, that's not what we need to see.

925
00:48:19,914 --> 00:48:23,913
Speaker 4: I also wonder if we've got all the research that

926
00:48:24,074 --> 00:48:27,034
Speaker 4: has been talked about on this show many times about

927
00:48:27,194 --> 00:48:32,194
Speaker 4: loneliness and isolation for gen z's and how they're going

928
00:48:32,234 --> 00:48:36,074
Speaker 4: out less meeting less people, just less contact with actual

929
00:48:36,154 --> 00:48:40,194
Speaker 4: human beings, more contact with people on the internet, which

930
00:48:40,234 --> 00:48:44,154
Speaker 4: is yes, which is a whole different thing, but genuinely

931
00:48:44,834 --> 00:48:49,953
Speaker 4: less social interaction. We know that contact is the antidote

932
00:48:50,314 --> 00:48:54,754
Speaker 4: to stereotypes, to sexism. Social psychology has known forever that

933
00:48:55,034 --> 00:48:57,794
Speaker 4: one of the most powerful things to overcome racism is

934
00:48:57,834 --> 00:49:01,354
Speaker 4: to simply have social contact with a person of that race,

935
00:49:01,594 --> 00:49:04,354
Speaker 4: and then you stand there and you realize that you.

936
00:49:04,314 --> 00:49:06,234
Speaker 3: Are a lot more similar than you realize.

937
00:49:06,314 --> 00:49:09,714
Speaker 4: So I'm hoping that once these gen Z men kind

938
00:49:09,794 --> 00:49:12,874
Speaker 4: of maybe get off the video game porn hub is they.

939
00:49:12,714 --> 00:49:13,993
Speaker 3: Can't spend as much time on.

940
00:49:14,074 --> 00:49:19,074
Speaker 4: Pornhub maybe direction so maybe once they spend time with

941
00:49:19,354 --> 00:49:23,794
Speaker 4: actual women, their views will change. And I would like

942
00:49:23,954 --> 00:49:28,194
Speaker 4: to think that as they enter the world, and as

943
00:49:28,194 --> 00:49:32,114
Speaker 4: they enter a partnership and start to maybe live with

944
00:49:32,194 --> 00:49:36,474
Speaker 4: somebody else, that they realize that these ideas are incompatible

945
00:49:36,874 --> 00:49:40,474
Speaker 4: with modern life. Like I thought some listeners might have

946
00:49:40,594 --> 00:49:42,794
Speaker 4: been watching merrit at First Sight when we had the

947
00:49:42,794 --> 00:49:47,634
Speaker 4: lovely tyson who was very into traditional values and submissiveness,

948
00:49:48,234 --> 00:49:50,834
Speaker 4: and I looked at him and I think what the

949
00:49:50,874 --> 00:49:53,674
Speaker 4: show kind of demonstrated was that's incompatible.

950
00:49:53,954 --> 00:49:56,834
Speaker 3: Like, you're not going to find one.

951
00:49:56,994 --> 00:50:00,394
Speaker 4: I don't think you have much luck finding a woman

952
00:50:00,594 --> 00:50:03,274
Speaker 4: who's going to say, yeah, I've had a great career

953
00:50:03,434 --> 00:50:06,434
Speaker 4: for you know, maybe I studied, maybe I worked really hard,

954
00:50:06,834 --> 00:50:08,914
Speaker 4: I established a career over ten years.

955
00:50:08,674 --> 00:50:10,554
Speaker 3: But you know what, You're right, I'm just going to

956
00:50:10,594 --> 00:50:11,794
Speaker 3: stay home for the rest of my life.

957
00:50:12,594 --> 00:50:14,674
Speaker 1: But it's not even the stay home it's that I'm

958
00:50:14,674 --> 00:50:16,913
Speaker 1: going to let you tell me what exactly because the

959
00:50:16,954 --> 00:50:18,794
Speaker 1: thing that's simplicit that you need to look at in

960
00:50:18,834 --> 00:50:22,594
Speaker 1: the obey is obey comes with the punishment if you

961
00:50:22,674 --> 00:50:24,514
Speaker 1: do not, and that's what we need. It's like, it

962
00:50:24,514 --> 00:50:27,234
Speaker 1: all sounds like lols, but it's not about whether or

963
00:50:27,274 --> 00:50:28,954
Speaker 1: not you stay home or go to work. It's about

964
00:50:29,394 --> 00:50:32,393
Speaker 1: do you hand over? These young men are saying, I

965
00:50:32,474 --> 00:50:35,074
Speaker 1: want to be in charge of everything. Guys, being in

966
00:50:35,154 --> 00:50:37,114
Speaker 1: charge is really hard.

967
00:50:38,074 --> 00:50:42,234
Speaker 4: And in this bloody economic climate cost of living. Mate,

968
00:50:42,274 --> 00:50:45,513
Speaker 4: you try and have traditional values on one income. You try,

969
00:50:45,634 --> 00:50:48,033
Speaker 4: you try and do that, because sir, what you'll find

970
00:50:48,114 --> 00:50:49,913
Speaker 4: is you need two incomes. And then you go, if

971
00:50:49,914 --> 00:50:52,354
Speaker 4: we need two incomes, then she needs to be working

972
00:50:52,554 --> 00:50:54,393
Speaker 4: and then what are we? Oh, this is why we

973
00:50:54,434 --> 00:50:56,154
Speaker 4: can't have traditional values.

974
00:50:58,234 --> 00:50:59,794
Speaker 1: How loud as That is all we have time for

975
00:50:59,954 --> 00:51:02,314
Speaker 1: on your Wednesday show. Thank you for being here with

976
00:51:02,394 --> 00:51:04,914
Speaker 1: us as always. Hopefully we've given you lots of things

977
00:51:05,074 --> 00:51:08,034
Speaker 1: to gossip, a bet and yeah I'm just sitting here

978
00:51:08,034 --> 00:51:11,754
Speaker 1: waiting for Winni's ring, so just putting it out there.

979
00:51:12,194 --> 00:51:14,634
Speaker 1: Thanks you as always to our incredible team for helping

980
00:51:14,714 --> 00:51:16,514
Speaker 1: us put the show together, and we'll be back in

981
00:51:16,554 --> 00:51:17,554
Speaker 1: your ears on Friday.

982
00:51:17,834 --> 00:51:27,354
Speaker 4: Bye bye, Mom and Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of

983
00:51:27,394 --> 00:51:29,594
Speaker 4: the land on which we've recorded this podcast.