Speaker 1: It never ends. You never stop being a student. I
Speaker 1: think that's a life lesson for authings, but absolutely certainly
Speaker 1: as an artist, I don't think you ever stop being
Speaker 1: a student. But I want to think about really enjoying
Speaker 1: and owning the moment. I want to think about what
Speaker 1: sort of legacy I'm going to lead, what sort of
Speaker 1: relationships I have. I'm doing that now so that when
Speaker 1: I hit ninety.
Speaker 2: I go, oh God, I wish, I wish, Yeah, I wish.
Speaker 1: I don't want any wishes. You know, there's no middle
Speaker 1: grounds on a lot of things, but on what it
Speaker 1: is to be human. The complexity of humanity can't be
Speaker 1: black and white.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the seas the Yay Podcast.
Speaker 3: Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too
Speaker 3: rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then
Speaker 3: we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize
Speaker 3: there's more than one way. So this is a platform
Speaker 3: to hear and explore the stories.
Speaker 2: Of those who found lives. They adore the good, bad
Speaker 2: and ugly, The best and worst day will bear all
Speaker 2: the facets of seizing your yay. I'm Sarah Davidson or
Speaker 2: a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned funentrepreneur who swapped
Speaker 2: the suits and here to co found Matcha Maidan and
Speaker 2: Matcha Milk Bark CZA is a series of conversations on
Speaker 2: finding a life you love and exploring the self doubt, challenge,
Speaker 2: joy and fulfillment along the way. Welcome back, Lovely Ahborhood.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, may it is not settling into my
Speaker 2: brain that it's twenty twenty three, let alone the end
Speaker 2: of January. We had the loveliest much needed break, But
Speaker 2: we're back in a big way and have such an
Speaker 2: exciting year planned for you all. Our first in real
Speaker 2: life event is already booked in for the sixteenth of
Speaker 2: feb for the Melbourne Neighborhood to begin with now that
Speaker 2: we have ang back on board properly to help with
Speaker 2: all of our yeah Pood activities, So stay tuned in
Speaker 2: this episode and on socials for more details on that.
Speaker 2: On that note, you'll be getting a dose of Yeas
Speaker 2: of our lives every fortnight from now on, and in
Speaker 2: next week's episode, we will follow up on Angre's huge
Speaker 2: revelations from her anonymous Q and a episodes our reflections
Speaker 2: on last year, our hopes and dreams for this year,
Speaker 2: how we're feeling going into twenty twenty three, all that
Speaker 2: new year you me type jazz. But for now we
Speaker 2: have our first guest episode for the year, and as
Speaker 2: you'll hear, we are so lucky to have access to
Speaker 2: this incredible voice, as it's a very precious one. We're
Speaker 2: starting the year on a musical note with the incredible
Speaker 2: Josh Pittiman, musical theater performer and classical crossover artist who
Speaker 2: also just happens to be at this very moment, the
Speaker 2: actual Phantom in The Phantom of the Opera. During my research,
Speaker 2: I read an older article where Josh was asked his
Speaker 2: biggest dream in the industry, and it was to play
Speaker 2: the Phantom. Nobody listening will be surprised that the way
Speaker 2: his path YAY has developed since then makes me so
Speaker 2: very happy, not least because I actually have known Josh
Speaker 2: for quite a few years now, and even more true
Speaker 2: to CZA form is the fact that he didn't even
Speaker 2: fancy himself a career in the arts until later than
Speaker 2: you'd expect. A diversions in his career along the way,
Speaker 2: including opening a fitness studio of all things, and so
Speaker 2: much more before finding he's ultimate ya And if you've
Speaker 2: heard him sing, you'll know he is exactly where he's
Speaker 2: meant to be. I found it so fascinating to hear
Speaker 2: all about what it actually takes to sing professionally, how
Speaker 2: to protect your voice. By the way, he doesn't speak
Speaker 2: outside of performing very often to protect that voice. So
Speaker 2: I'm very grateful that he used an hour on CZDA,
Speaker 2: how he trains for shows and everything in between. So
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoy this one as much as I did.
Speaker 2: Josh Pitterman, Welcome to Cca.
Speaker 4: Thanks Sarah, thanks for having me mate.
Speaker 2: I'm so excited you are our first guest back for
Speaker 2: the News.
Speaker 4: I feel honored, privileged.
Speaker 2: I feel honored and privilege. We have known each other.
Speaker 2: I was actually trying to work this out last night.
Speaker 2: How long have we known each other? Many many years.
Speaker 2: I don't even know how we met, but I feel
Speaker 2: like it's been many years and many chapters.
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's Macha milkba. I was just working
Speaker 1: it out in the way here. Really, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that's how actually it. I think it's a green burger?
Speaker 2: Is it a green burger?
Speaker 4: Green burger?
Speaker 2: I mean many a friendship blossomed and a blue algae lot.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is one of my favorite kinds of
Speaker 2: episodes because when you have known someone for a while
Speaker 2: and you've been able to follow lots of different chapters
Speaker 2: of their journey, it's so exciting to be able to
Speaker 2: show people that you know people who meet you. Now
Speaker 2: you're in like the cream of the crop role. You're
Speaker 2: doing what I know has been a dream for you
Speaker 2: for a really long time. It would be really easy
Speaker 2: to think you always knew you in an IPR, that you
Speaker 2: woke up like this, that there was no you know,
Speaker 2: there were no twist and turns along the way. But
Speaker 2: we've kind of been there for quite a few of
Speaker 2: each other, so it's really cool. Yeah I have been
Speaker 2: there then, but be be able to see how much
Speaker 2: you're flourishing now.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 1: And it is funny that people do just think that
Speaker 1: you rock up one day and you can just do
Speaker 1: all that you can just oh, you rock up one
Speaker 1: day and play the Phantom and that's.
Speaker 4: Like that's where it all starts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, at the opera House.
Speaker 1: Or in London or whatever. It just doesn't work like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's always like such a joy when you've
Speaker 2: been able to see even a small part of someone's
Speaker 2: it was an overnight success, but like ten twenty years
Speaker 2: in the making. To have been there for any of
Speaker 2: that is so exciting because it's even more thrilling when
Speaker 2: you get to see you doing it now. It's like, yes,
Speaker 2: he hasn't worked so.
Speaker 1: Hard for this, Yeah, And there are so many trials
Speaker 1: and troops and with everyone's journey and mine included, and
Speaker 1: the rollercoaster ride of it all. And then there's something that
Speaker 1: I feel that is not unique, and that is just
Speaker 1: really like just discipline, hard work for a really really
Speaker 1: long time. I think that's like old fashion now sometimes
Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, but you know, I don't think
Speaker 1: we live in a society of like immediacy and entitlement
Speaker 1: and that and people, you know, so many opportunities for
Speaker 1: overnight success. Yeah, whether that's staying success remains to be seen.
Speaker 1: And sometimes it works for people really, but often it doesn't.
Speaker 1: But there are so many opportunities, especially in talent, you know,
Speaker 1: the Voice, Saw X Factor Australia has got to all
Speaker 1: these sort of show all around the world that like
Speaker 1: throw people into the spotlight so quickly, give them this
Speaker 1: like sort of instant stardom. Sadly not a lot of
Speaker 1: those things continue on for people. So I've always taken
Speaker 1: the traditional routinum, never gone on one of those things,
Speaker 1: and always wanted to just like slow burn it to
Speaker 1: a point where I'm proud of what I'm doing. I'm
Speaker 1: proud all the way, but like you know, to reach
Speaker 1: a goal like yeah, so I'm glad it's worked out.
Speaker 2: I love that so much. And the great privilege on
Speaker 2: this show is the ability to, in a longer form, Chad,
Speaker 2: to actually go back to the very beginning and trace
Speaker 2: all those chapters of your life and remind people like
Speaker 2: you had to start at school one day. You know,
Speaker 2: everyone was a kid once with hopes and dreams, and
Speaker 2: particularly in the arts, and as you mentioned in Talent,
Speaker 2: you know, so many people start with big dreams as kids,
Speaker 2: but most people drop those dreams of going into the
Speaker 2: arts because it is so difficult, it is so competitive,
Speaker 2: and it's not your conventional like you know, the career
Speaker 2: pathway isn't necessarily as straightforward as other jobs. So yes,
Speaker 2: it's amazing that you've been able to actually keep going
Speaker 2: through that. So I would love to take you all
Speaker 2: the way back to the start and kind of trace
Speaker 2: through the chapters it took to get you there with
Speaker 2: a couple of diversions that I was also there for
Speaker 2: into fitness, like all kinds of things. But the very
Speaker 2: first question I always break the ice with is what
Speaker 2: the most down to earth thing is about you? And
Speaker 2: I feel like I did not expect a Western bulldog's
Speaker 2: tattoo to be the first thing that Caine spotted when
Speaker 2: you walked in and sat down, Ye tell us about it.
Speaker 1: So it was a dare no, yeah, but it's a
Speaker 1: long term dere Like when I was like fourteen, you know,
Speaker 1: mates would say, oh, if you win, you know, just
Speaker 1: because the Bulldogs are like, notoriously not a team to
Speaker 1: win the premiership. I mean pre twenty sixteen, it was
Speaker 1: nine fifty four.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm a d supporter, so I totally yeah, So.
Speaker 1: Its a safe dear. Second to that was something far
Speaker 1: more emotional. My dad and I have always gone to
Speaker 1: footy together since probably the mid to late nineties. Okay,
Speaker 1: so I'm thirty seven now, so from the age of
Speaker 1: maybe eleven or twelve that was Dad and Josh time.
Speaker 1: So you know, we started really for us when when
Speaker 1: the Bulldogs moved to what was then Optus Oval at
Speaker 1: Princess Park Icon Stadium Now they were there for a
Speaker 1: couple of years between Witten Oval and what what's Colonial
Speaker 1: Stadium which is now oh my god, Cologue Colonial, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: which now was called Docklands Marvel. And so that was
Speaker 1: our time together. In twenty and thirteen Dad was diagnosed
Speaker 1: with cancer and I was performing in the UK at
Speaker 1: the time and Dad's a doctor professor of medicine. He's,
Speaker 1: you know, patriarchal for our family. Those people don't get ill,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like in your in your mind,
Speaker 1: they just in your heart, they're always there. But he's
Speaker 1: such a beacon, he's so strong, and he's the advisor,
Speaker 1: he's the wise one. To see him have frailty was hard.
Speaker 1: The cancer sort of expanded in twenty sixteen. We weren't
Speaker 1: sure what was going to happen next and what drug
Speaker 1: was going to be available, drug wasn't working whatever, and
Speaker 1: so in my mind that could have been the last
Speaker 1: time he went to the footy together, that Grand Final,
Speaker 1: and so yes, it was a dare to get this tattoo,
Speaker 1: but it was also for me a reminder of a
Speaker 1: potential reminder of that time with my dad. Now I
Speaker 1: love Yeah, I love that too. My dad didn't because
Speaker 1: he's the son of Holocaust survivors who have oh my
Speaker 1: god tattoos on them. That was like he loved it
Speaker 1: and hated it at the same time. I think still
Speaker 1: does or whatever. But for me, it's it's a reminder
Speaker 1: and thankfully he got in a trial drug and the
Speaker 1: child drugs has kept him going for another you know,
Speaker 1: six or so years. He still battles through every day,
Speaker 1: but we still got him, and that's the beautiful thing
Speaker 1: about him. So it's always a reminder of just my
Speaker 1: journey of going to the footy each week with my dad
Speaker 1: and what that means for my relationship with my dad,
Speaker 1: so which I never really get to explain. It's just
Speaker 1: like I've got a bit of bogn on me.
Speaker 2: And I love that. We literally diminished it to a
Speaker 2: Bogan touching for a dare.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but this beautiful. So it is really beautiful.
Speaker 1: I don't often share it because you know that, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I think it's appropriate to ship.
Speaker 2: You need a little postcard that I got next one.
Speaker 2: Anytime anyone asked about it, just be like, just read,
Speaker 2: just just read the background.
Speaker 1: I think what sums it up is that day when
Speaker 1: we won the premiership. I took a sort of selfie
Speaker 1: video as the siren went and I was just in tears.
Speaker 1: Somehow we'll get that video. I'll get that to you,
Speaker 1: and it is so Yeah, it was really really emotional.
Speaker 1: It's just Dad and I and I give him sorry,
Speaker 1: I give the biggest it's just yeah, it's just a lot.
Speaker 1: So I hope yeah, people get to see that because,
Speaker 1: oh my god, sorry, but it's beautiful.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I love my dad a lot.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm so so pleased to hear that
Speaker 2: the medication is working and that's wonderful news is oh
Speaker 2: my gosh, and so much more than Bogan tattoo.
Speaker 4: So much more.
Speaker 2: That's going to be the name of your book. So
Speaker 2: much more than a Bogan tattoo.
Speaker 4: There we go. I love that.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for sharing.
Speaker 4: Tho we went deep dives so quick.
Speaker 2: No, I'm like a minute three and a half. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but that's actually really really interesting as a place to start,
Speaker 2: having a dad who is a doctor, and even more
Speaker 2: so as a child of Holocaust survivors and knowing than
Speaker 2: being your grandparents as well. Tell us about your childhood
Speaker 2: and what that was like and if you did have
Speaker 2: any expectations of the life you would lead and the
Speaker 2: career you would have or what you would become.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no expectations of being in the performing arts. Grew
Speaker 1: up in Campbell till us twelve, moved to East and
Speaker 1: Kilda at the height of prostitution.
Speaker 2: Just for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I just remember moving in day and I
Speaker 1: was like, who are those women on house?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I learned about that real.
Speaker 2: Quick, so just ran interruption. I was at the Australian Ballet.
Speaker 2: But before that I was at the National Theater right
Speaker 2: around the same era, and our parents when they had
Speaker 2: to come and pick us up, like they locked the
Speaker 2: doors and they had to do a little code because
Speaker 2: it was like, you know, junkie prostitute era ofs in Kilda. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was in its intense era.
Speaker 1: Someone was telling me a story recently about how their
Speaker 1: dance troup would do their shows at the National Theater
Speaker 1: and the girls would come out after doing the show
Speaker 1: like fully fully made up, and people would think that
Speaker 1: they had to like streak them away. Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So that's where I grew up and went to school
Speaker 1: at Wesley College. Was very spawty and quite academic at
Speaker 1: the start of school, and you know, we just wanted
Speaker 1: to be a good student and be good sportsman. Really,
Speaker 1: music didn't play it much of a part, not at all.
Speaker 1: I played a bit of guitar. Mum and Dad made
Speaker 1: me have piano lessons growing up when I was like five.
Speaker 1: I wasn't really interested in it, but it helped me
Speaker 1: because it enabled me to have music as a second language,
Speaker 1: you know that I can I can read and whatever,
Speaker 1: but just wasn't really into it. Like sport was so dominant, tennis, cricket, footy, basketball,
Speaker 1: all that. So just like really typical sort of chucky
Speaker 1: you know, Melbourne boy. But yes, grew up with parents
Speaker 1: who were the kids of Holocaust survivors and so that
Speaker 1: played a big part in my life, you know, like
Speaker 1: going to shove up dinners on Friday nights and hearing
Speaker 1: those stories and so like. There was a not like
Speaker 1: a religious Jewish upbringing, but certainly a sort of traditional
Speaker 1: like secular Jewish upbringing. But mits for and all that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff, did you Yeah, yeah, all of that.
Speaker 4: Had the function of.
Speaker 2: They're on leonder, like the two places and everyone has them.
Speaker 1: But I swear to God, there was a lot of
Speaker 1: twelve year olds who were drunk, like yeah, that wasn't Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think inappropriate things happened at that that bumts.
Speaker 4: Mine.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of gardens and like a lot
Speaker 1: of like I just remember like kids like sneak under
Speaker 1: the alcohol tables like grab stuff and then like a
Speaker 1: race into the guard and it's.
Speaker 4: Like you're twelve third what are you doing? Like I'm down?
Speaker 1: Anyway, that was a time, so no sort of thoughts
Speaker 1: about that, And it wasn't until like, in terms of
Speaker 1: my music journey, year ten got really into Michael Jackson,
Speaker 1: which is now like are you allowed to get too
Speaker 1: my like you can't, don't care?
Speaker 2: Very difficult, isn't it. It's a very difficult time.
Speaker 4: Can we?
Speaker 1: Can we not be that binary? Like can we and.
Speaker 2: Like like separate the artist from the Yeah, yeah, still
Speaker 2: bangers galore, still tear up on the dance floor, But.
Speaker 1: I feel like you don't hear as much Michael Jackson
Speaker 1: as I used to. Here absolutely airways don't play it
Speaker 1: like yeah anyway.
Speaker 2: I have also read that your favorite dance move is
Speaker 2: the moonwork.
Speaker 1: So I learn how to moonwalk, right, Basically I had
Speaker 1: to learn.
Speaker 2: How to actually documented on the internet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, many times did the moonwalk in the school cam
Speaker 1: got tapped on the shoulder by a guy called Dawson
Speaker 1: Hand who had been directing the school musicals. Fabulous English
Speaker 1: teacher and human but he directed the school musical is
Speaker 1: at Wesley for thirty years or whatever, and he said
Speaker 1: you could be really useful, and I was like, sure,
Speaker 1: like I'll do that.
Speaker 2: The sporty jock.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I was always like definitely a yes.
Speaker 2: Man, okay, and.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, seize the AA and moonwalk for you know,
Speaker 1: the panel and seeing some stuff. And so I did
Speaker 1: fame the musical and just was like, this is awesome.
Speaker 1: I'm going to change my chemistry and maths and potential
Speaker 1: study of medicine or physiotherapy or something in that world
Speaker 1: and just like focus on arts. So U twelve comes
Speaker 1: around and all I can think of is like, what's
Speaker 1: the school musical. It's Jesus kind of superstar. I played
Speaker 1: Judas and it was I was terrible on reflection.
Speaker 2: Now, that is what I would like. Some footage jobs
Speaker 2: I would love.
Speaker 4: Is a DVD of it somewhere there is.
Speaker 1: I have to get my hands on it because it's terrible,
Speaker 1: Like I just remember some like seeing that DVD. It
Speaker 1: like sort of when I was early at UNI watching
Speaker 1: it with some people in my year, and I spent
Speaker 1: so much of the show in like a sumo squad,
Speaker 1: Like why was that my choice of position to sing
Speaker 1: in just like this sort of sort of desperate like yearning,
Speaker 1: but sumo squad.
Speaker 2: Maybe you were trying to like open your lungs like maximals.
Speaker 2: It was like planting in the ground.
Speaker 4: It was a bum.
Speaker 1: Charkra That's what it was. It was like real shark stuff. Anyway,
Speaker 1: So I just but anyway, I loved it, decided that's
Speaker 1: one hundred percent what I want to do. Audition for
Speaker 1: all the academies and stuff, got into the one that's
Speaker 1: in Ballarat, and then sort of began my artistic journey.
Speaker 1: But I wasn't a singer or an actor or a
Speaker 1: dancer like I just was really passionate about all of
Speaker 1: it and was taking all this new information about or
Speaker 1: like my God, like Lame is a raw Phantom of
Speaker 1: the opera, all these like west Side Story, all these musicals. Wow, well,
Speaker 1: I like just like taking it all in like it
Speaker 1: was I was like a new sponge, whereas everyone else
Speaker 1: in the academy who got in. There's probably one other
Speaker 1: guy similar to me, but everyone else had like whether
Speaker 1: into musicals or not, they're into singing, dancing, actor. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: and they had been doing it for a long time,
Speaker 1: so I was way back.
Speaker 2: That was one of my main questions. Do you think
Speaker 2: that you have to be I mean now hearing your voice,
Speaker 2: I don't think that you could learn that, like you
Speaker 2: can hone it, but you must have had a voice
Speaker 2: box to sing. But do you think you're born with
Speaker 2: those skills or do you think that you can come
Speaker 2: into it as a total outsider and then grow those
Speaker 2: skills because I think your turn's quite late in the
Speaker 2: performing arts.
Speaker 1: Well really I was. I think I was like sixteen
Speaker 1: when I first like sung, So two things. I don't
Speaker 1: think it's that once ago. I don't think it's that binary.
Speaker 1: I think if you are musical in some sense and
Speaker 1: you have an understanding of pitch and like can hear
Speaker 1: things on the radio and copy it, or you've played
Speaker 1: a bit of an instrument before and you have an
Speaker 1: understanding of musicality, you can definitely teach singing. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: can definitely, Like there's a lot of science in it.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you can definitely learn how to do that,
Speaker 1: but I'm lucky, Well I've learnt. Subsequently, years later, I'm lucky.
Speaker 1: I took part in a pH d research for a
Speaker 1: voice pathologist who was like, so I had to get
Speaker 1: my cords scoped and stuff, and she goes, oh, well,
Speaker 1: you chose the right career because the structure of your
Speaker 1: cords means that they're long but thick, which basically means
Speaker 1: that thickness will create more richness. Length will create height.
Speaker 1: So it means you can sing high but with a
Speaker 1: rich sound. So it's like it lends itself to classical
Speaker 1: tenor sing. So whoa yeah, but like you need to
Speaker 1: train that living buggery out of it. Yes, it was there,
Speaker 1: so like Pavuroti doesn't rock up one day and just
Speaker 1: do I mean he's.
Speaker 4: No here, but like yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: In my eyes the greatest tenor ever. It's training.
Speaker 4: It's training.
Speaker 1: But we see the fruits of labor. Yeah, you know
Speaker 1: we're not there listening. My neighbors are there over the
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: We get a free concert every night.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they got free all sorts, they got free cracks
Speaker 1: and you know what we call like testy blowouts and
Speaker 1: like all of that. Scooby Doo like all of that.
Speaker 1: So you got plenty of that in the early years.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so it's been as the process of learning
Speaker 1: and education and having great teachers and trusting those teachers
Speaker 1: and trusting when it's time to move to the next teacher.
Speaker 1: And yeah, and I still see a coach and still
Speaker 1: have a teacher, and it never ends. You're never stop
Speaker 1: being a student. I think that's a life lesson for authings,
Speaker 1: but absolutely certainly as an artist, I don't think you
Speaker 1: ever stop being a student.
Speaker 2: This is so fascinating to me, Like my favorite thing
Speaker 2: ever on this show is the privilege of being able
Speaker 2: to tap into a niche community where to you, the terminology,
Speaker 2: the pathway, even like the differences between a tenor and
Speaker 2: a soprano and an alto on a base, like all
Speaker 2: of that language is really familiar to you. But to
Speaker 2: people who have no musical background, see you're doing phantom,
Speaker 2: or see you at the tennis, or see you at
Speaker 2: you know, doing all the incredible things you do, probably
Speaker 2: think that you woke up singing one day and someone went,
Speaker 2: oh you can sing, and go sing there. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: just not that yeah, I love this. It makes me
Speaker 2: so excited.
Speaker 4: But I don't think it's the same as anything.
Speaker 1: I just think people see the arts as some foreign
Speaker 1: thing that is only select group of people who are
Speaker 1: born that way you can do it, but like it's
Speaker 1: no different to an athlete, Like I don't think you know,
Speaker 1: I watched Nadal.
Speaker 2: And you're like, that's the me of tennis.
Speaker 1: Well, in some ways I'm sort of gritty and dogged
Speaker 1: and like have worked them off and always on the defense.
Speaker 1: But like he doesn't just pick up a racket and
Speaker 1: do that, you know at some age and then you
Speaker 1: like it's workmanship and work and work and work and
Speaker 1: devoting of your life to that and the sacrifices that
Speaker 1: you do it. You know, Like you know, I said
Speaker 1: to your start, what you were like, what things don't
Speaker 1: you want to talk about? Relationships? Like my relationships have
Speaker 1: suffered so much, you know, I've had divorce and separations
Speaker 1: and all sorts of things in my life because for
Speaker 1: all sorts of reasons. But ultimately, like my career is
Speaker 1: something that is I think is really hard to be
Speaker 1: with at times. Yeah, you know, traveling around the world
Speaker 1: and very transient, you know, it's eight shows a week
Speaker 1: when you're in a music cool playing a lead role
Speaker 1: like the phantom, and you can't, like you don't just
Speaker 1: rock up and play the phantom. You as soon as
Speaker 1: I go home, I'm steaming my voice. I don't speak
Speaker 1: until probably like midday the next day, really normally, you know,
Speaker 1: like it's a slow warm up throughout the day. I
Speaker 1: don't really socialize. I don't go out at night. I
Speaker 1: don't speak on the phone very much.
Speaker 2: It's it's all of these I need this phone cover.
Speaker 4: Don't call me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm sort of that guy. Yeah, there's like
Speaker 1: I have to watch what I eat, I have to
Speaker 1: hydrate in certain ways, I have to move my body
Speaker 1: in certain ways. Like this is so much, you know,
Speaker 1: preparation for each night and recovery from each night. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you've got to do it eight times a week. So
Speaker 1: like that's a lot. That's a lot to undertake, and
Speaker 1: for it to be a partner of that, it's really hard.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So that's the stuff you don't think about. You just
Speaker 2: think I think you're right. They think we can so
Speaker 2: easily understand sport as something you could have a natural
Speaker 2: talent in, but completely understand that elite sportsmen or sports
Speaker 2: people are training all the time and if they're not training,
Speaker 2: they're losing that skill and they're not honing it.
Speaker 1: But it's the same. It's the same with this is
Speaker 1: like the sport of the arts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think we think of it that way though.
Speaker 2: I think we think you're good at it. You live
Speaker 2: and breathe it, you get up, you do it, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. I don't think people understand your Also,
Speaker 2: it's the equivalent. You're training, you're preparing. You don't just
Speaker 2: get up and do it because it appears that you do.
Speaker 2: But it's the same as sports people. I guess they
Speaker 2: turn up at the Australian Open and you.
Speaker 5: Think, oh they are, yeah, Jokovich's going to win another one,
Speaker 5: or like you know, yeah yeah, So there's that and
Speaker 5: so you know, like sportsmen or conversations you have between
Speaker 5: your years plays a huge part in it, you know,
Speaker 5: like there's something.
Speaker 1: Not all performers, but I think a lot of performers,
Speaker 1: and certainly I'm in that category, have gone through periods
Speaker 1: of going I'm in this because I want to be loved.
Speaker 1: I'm in this because I needalidation or I need attention.
Speaker 1: I need to be the center of attention or whatever
Speaker 1: that is. So there's an insecurity that is there, in
Speaker 1: a vulnerability that is there, and you're an industry where
Speaker 1: you get reject a lot. You know, I've got I've
Speaker 1: had lots of great lead roles, but I've auditioned for
Speaker 1: far more than i haven't got. So like being vulnerable,
Speaker 1: being insecure, needing validation, all those things play a huge
Speaker 1: part of what we do. That's a real recipe for
Speaker 1: a mind fuck. Like yeah, right, so industry, Yeah, to
Speaker 1: work out how to get past that and to know that,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not perfect, but I am enough. You know,
Speaker 1: I love myself unconditionally. I'm going to go out there
Speaker 1: and make mistakes. I'm going to go out there and
Speaker 1: do things that weren't the best version that I'm capable of,
Speaker 1: and I'm still enough. That's our long process to get through. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Like that takes a lot of years, Yeah, and a
Speaker 1: lot of work.
Speaker 4: So that's it.
Speaker 1: Like, that's the sort of a whole other part that's
Speaker 1: secondary to the work of just the skill, the work
Speaker 1: of the mind. And then when you get through that work,
Speaker 1: I think, and you dissolve a lot of that, you
Speaker 1: get to get into the heart and the soul. And
Speaker 1: really what makes us feel when we go to the
Speaker 1: theater or a concert, whatever, is when a performer is transcendent,
Speaker 1: when they're beyond the technicalities and the thoughts of their
Speaker 1: mind and they're just coming from someplace within them and
Speaker 1: it's what's in them that we're feeling, and that takes
Speaker 1: us to somewhere else. And that's real storytelling. And whether
Speaker 1: that's through song or dance or words, that's the beauty
Speaker 1: of the arts. So that's such a process to get
Speaker 1: through to that, you know, to get inside yourself, to
Speaker 1: be able to be open enough to share that and
Speaker 1: get beyond what's going on in the mind.
Speaker 2: I love that so much. I always found with ballet
Speaker 2: for so like, for the years that I did, and
Speaker 2: I didn't even know continue the career for that long,
Speaker 2: but I always found the performers I loved the most
Speaker 2: weren't always the most technically correct exactly dances. It was
Speaker 2: the ones who danced with so much heart that you
Speaker 2: didn't even much what else they were doing. You were
Speaker 2: just so captivated in their performance, and especially without the
Speaker 2: capacity to sing or to say words, like everything was
Speaker 2: with their body. It was never the ones who were
Speaker 2: like had the best point or the best art or
Speaker 2: the best turnout. I mean, obviously they had that too,
Speaker 2: but it was, yeah, the ones who were like so
Speaker 2: lost in the storytelling. And it's interesting that you say
Speaker 2: it does take a look to get there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it is the balance in those very technical
Speaker 1: crafts of things that are very classical, which require more
Speaker 1: technique in a way, you know, ballet or opera or
Speaker 1: more classical musical theater or classical dance. It's this The
Speaker 1: dance is sometimes between the heart and the soul and
Speaker 1: the story and the technicality. And you can't totally lose
Speaker 1: the technique and you know, start just doing whatever you
Speaker 1: want out there as a singer a dancer, you have
Speaker 1: to have that. But for those things to coexist, that
Speaker 1: the heart and that technique, that's something that takes a
Speaker 1: lot of years in refinement.
Speaker 2: And I think one thing I really want to touch
Speaker 2: on with you is even talking about relationships and the
Speaker 2: fact that like your one joy, Like I think something
Speaker 2: that we talk about a lot on the show is
Speaker 2: finding your ultimate joy and going after that and letting
Speaker 2: go of conventional ideas of success and financial metrics and
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff, But we don't often touch
Speaker 2: on the fact that sometimes multiple joys conflict personal joy
Speaker 2: and career joy. Sometimes they're not going in the same.
Speaker 1: Direction, and has often been the case for me.
Speaker 2: And then when your identity is your work, which is
Speaker 2: a privilege. I think it's a privilege to enjoy your
Speaker 2: work so much.
Speaker 1: I've had to work very long. The identity is not
Speaker 1: the work.
Speaker 2: So that is definitely what I want to talk to
Speaker 2: you about. But before we do that, I just want
Speaker 2: to finish the timeline of going from someone who had
Speaker 2: written and I think this is so exciting. I'd read
Speaker 2: an interview that you did ages ago where someone asked
Speaker 2: what your dream role was and you said the phantom
Speaker 2: in the Phantom of the Opera. And to see you
Speaker 2: doing that now, like you've physically answered that in an interview,
Speaker 2: and then to be there now, to have done it
Speaker 2: at the Sydney Opera House, like there is no higher
Speaker 2: pinnacle than having achieved the goal that you wrote down
Speaker 2: and to do it in like the most prestigious arena
Speaker 2: that there is in this country. Yeah, but in between there,
Speaker 2: you've had so many different things. You've recorded an album,
Speaker 2: you toured with an international group, like you've been part
Speaker 2: of the Ten Tenors. You've done so many different music calls.
Speaker 2: You've had a pet business in between. Yea, it is
Speaker 2: not a straight line.
Speaker 4: No no, no, no no.
Speaker 2: How did you get there? And what does it feel
Speaker 2: like you have gotten there now?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: So how did I get there? Like a quick sort
Speaker 1: of summary, I guess. After graduating from Ballarat with a
Speaker 1: major in musical theater patchelor pants musical theater, I auditioned
Speaker 1: for Tokyo.
Speaker 4: Disney Did you I did? Do you a character or
Speaker 4: do you know?
Speaker 1: They had like a sort of Broadway jazz style show
Speaker 1: called Big Band Beat, which had a full big band
Speaker 1: and some singers and dancers, and then Mickey and Minnie
Speaker 1: and Daisy I think did some stuff and Mickey played
Speaker 1: the drums and tap dance. It was really cool. So
Speaker 1: I did that like almost five times a day, five
Speaker 1: days a week, two to five times a day, so
Speaker 1: twenty something the shows a week for the best part
Speaker 1: of nine months and then so that was really good
Speaker 1: training for repeat effort, like you need the most shows
Speaker 1: we ever did? I think it was like ten So
Speaker 1: like in nine months doing twenty shows a week, like
Speaker 1: someone do the math.
Speaker 2: And at Disney level excitement.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker 1: It's like six hundred shows something. It's like it's sort
Speaker 1: of crazy, so like it's nuts. And so did that
Speaker 1: and then not long after that joined the ten Tenners.
Speaker 1: Had a couple of years there but really missed acting.
Speaker 1: So I felt like a Disney and at ten Tenner's
Speaker 1: it was a lot of sort of I didn't play
Speaker 1: a character. I didn't get to transcend into a role
Speaker 1: and become that human and find the heart of that
Speaker 1: human and the soul of that human. So I had
Speaker 1: an experience during the ten tennas where auditioned for Phantom
Speaker 1: over video and then was subsequently flown to Copenhagen where
Speaker 1: the director was at that time. It was successful addition
Speaker 1: for the two thousand and seven to nine production with
Speaker 1: Anthony Worlow, so I got the role to understudy the
Speaker 1: Phantom and understudy Raoul, who's the other character, and couldn't
Speaker 1: get out of the contract. So it's sort of like
Speaker 1: that was my first journey really with Phantom being successful.
Speaker 1: It's actually also the first shor I auditioned for out
Speaker 1: of UNI but didn't get it.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you've had this long history.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, it is like eluded me and all
Speaker 1: this sort of stuff, which makes it all the more
Speaker 1: sweet and special. And then yeah, quit the group so
Speaker 1: I could audition for West Side Story. Really I knew
Speaker 1: that if I wanted to do musicals, I couldn't be
Speaker 1: in the group. I couldn't like sort of have this
Speaker 1: like contract running and going down and then just go
Speaker 1: on audition something and then just say bye bye. So
Speaker 1: I quit the group, auditioned for a West Side Story
Speaker 1: on a risk, so like a financial risk there, like yeah,
Speaker 1: and got the role of Tony. That's just the main
Speaker 1: role in that. Did that twenty ten eleven, did another
Speaker 1: show here for a little Bit that bombed whenever the
Speaker 1: UK did Pray. Then that's where my dad got diagnosed
Speaker 1: with cancer came back and in that time I was
Speaker 1: married and it was really affecting my relationship, my transience
Speaker 1: and whatever. And I was like, I'm a bit burnt out.
Speaker 1: I sort of haven't stopped since I moonwalked, you know,
Speaker 1: like it's just been this constant two to twenty thirteen,
Speaker 1: a constant just steam train like or bullet train, just
Speaker 1: going towards you know, climbing the ladder of the mountain
Speaker 1: of success or whatever that meant to me. I didn't
Speaker 1: really know. It just was more and more validation I
Speaker 1: think for me, and I just had I just burned
Speaker 1: how I just had to stop. So I was like,
Speaker 1: I've got to be in Melbourne. I want this relationship
Speaker 1: to work. I'm going to try something else. So I
Speaker 1: started my PT course. I knew a lot of people
Speaker 1: in the theater industry by then and thought I could
Speaker 1: specialize in training people in that world. And it quickly developed.
Speaker 1: Once again, I sort of bullet trained.
Speaker 2: It like nothing. Halfway it's just yeah, bang.
Speaker 1: And I've learned that I have to do things in
Speaker 1: different ways now, but because that doesn't always work, so
Speaker 1: I just developed this huge clientele list that was too
Speaker 1: big for one person. Took on someone else else to
Speaker 1: help me out, and we're just working out a facility
Speaker 1: in some Kilda and then it's like, you know what,
Speaker 1: screw it it, I'm going to open up a studio.
Speaker 1: I did, and it was called pit Fit, and you know,
Speaker 1: it was like a it was sort of really one
Speaker 1: of the first sort of functional training studios. I think
Speaker 1: like that we didn't have machines and this sort of
Speaker 1: two thousand and fourteen.
Speaker 2: See, I think I knew you then. Oh I remember
Speaker 2: pit Fit? Did you know Nick for Ages? Did you
Speaker 2: go to Baroke? Is that you Nick?
Speaker 4: I don't know. Maybe Nick came and trained.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I feel like I definitely.
Speaker 4: Never stopped on if you did.
Speaker 2: I mean, does he ever cott analogy?
Speaker 4: I got it.
Speaker 2: I definitely remember Pitfit. Yeah, so I feel like I
Speaker 2: knew since then. Okay, I don't know how, but somehow.
Speaker 1: Somehow, so that sort of did its thing, and then
Speaker 1: we realized we could expand beyond just the music theater
Speaker 1: world and have a general public pop thing. And it
Speaker 1: was a yeah, it was a sort of more fun
Speaker 1: take on fitness. We used a lot of games and
Speaker 1: stuff for warm arts, getting pull noodles out and doing
Speaker 1: all sorts of like really fun things that took your
Speaker 1: mind out of the idea that you were training and
Speaker 1: into idea of play and fun, and which is what
Speaker 1: the theater world is. So we use theater games and
Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff. It was really really fun. But
Speaker 1: then we got into the nitty gritty of it, and
Speaker 1: the kettlebells are out and all the other things were
Speaker 1: out that sort of are now standard practice and are
Speaker 1: now butch.
Speaker 2: Then the like we made a camp basically exercise but
Speaker 2: make it musical theater.
Speaker 1: There were colorful black boards around the studio. It was
Speaker 1: really fun and I had a great time doing it.
Speaker 1: But after a while I just was hungry to perform again.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine a performer off the stage for so long.
Speaker 4: Yeah it was.
Speaker 1: It was maybe eighteen months, and I was just like,
Speaker 1: I can't do this anymore. So I auditioned for a
Speaker 1: production of Blood Brothers Here, which is like a beautiful
Speaker 1: British show. Did that at a theater in St. Kilda
Speaker 1: and I actually had a great time. And then my
Speaker 1: agent at the time said, hey, would you audition for Cats?
Speaker 1: And I was like yeah, And my wife at the
Speaker 1: time was like things weren't going well and the idea
Speaker 1: of going back into musicals I don't think it was
Speaker 1: great for us. And so anyway I did audition for
Speaker 1: it and it was sort of like probably the last
Speaker 1: nail and a coffin for us. So that was really
Speaker 1: really hard, and you know, over time, you know that
Speaker 1: we would be able to like form a FRENCHI which
Speaker 1: is really nice but yeah, which is great.
Speaker 2: So I'm sure at the time, Yeah, really did so.
Speaker 1: Did Cats for the best part of a year or so,
Speaker 1: and then did a couple of other productions. That's when
Speaker 1: I started to bring it. Brought out an album. I've
Speaker 1: always wanted to do an album in grabbing pop songs,
Speaker 1: re orchestrating them, ripping them apart, translating some of them
Speaker 1: to other more classical speaking languages of Spanish, Italian, whatever else.
Speaker 1: Worked with good mate John Foreman, who people would know
Speaker 1: from Cows by Candle Light and various things. He's a
Speaker 1: great Aussie producer and musical director and conductor. Went over
Speaker 1: to Prague with that and used their Philharmonic orchestra, which
Speaker 1: is incredible, just created a real European and then the
Speaker 1: rock band who were on it to make those pop
Speaker 1: songs still sound popy and rocky.
Speaker 4: We were from here and so like I covered like Googoo.
Speaker 1: Dolls and Farnham and Radiohead and things that you would
Speaker 1: never rear an operatic. Yeah, it was like a real combination. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was really fun and that sort of led to
Speaker 1: other opportunities in that space. I did another musical call Beautiful,
Speaker 1: about the life of cale King and then really off
Speaker 1: the back of that album, I got this great opportunity
Speaker 1: from John Formant to sing nest on Doordoma, which is
Speaker 1: like everyone's sort of the most well known.
Speaker 2: Area every time, yeah, every time.
Speaker 4: Bum bum bum bum bu.
Speaker 1: Everyone sort of notice it at the Australia Day Live
Speaker 1: concert out the front of the Sydney Opera House with
Speaker 1: all the fireworks and the tens of thousand people there
Speaker 1: at the start of twenty nineteen. And I remember when
Speaker 1: John asked me to do it. In my head, I
Speaker 1: was saying, no, too big, too big, too scary, like
Speaker 1: I can't possibly do that. It's on National TV.
Speaker 4: It before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I sung it with the ten tens. I sung
Speaker 1: up many times, but I was just like fear, yeah,
Speaker 1: And I was like, Josh, don't choose fear, just don't
Speaker 1: choose fear, like and I just went yeah. And then
Speaker 1: so for the next six weeks all I sung was
Speaker 1: ness and Dormer like just got it right into muscle
Speaker 1: memory and so that no matter what, it couldn't fail
Speaker 1: out there. And it's still you know, I look back
Speaker 1: on it and it's like imperfections in the performance, of course,
Speaker 1: but it is like one of the most heart filled
Speaker 1: performance is a ness and dormer like it is like
Speaker 1: like it is so for me, it's almost like an emancipation,
Speaker 1: like yeah, I could like my whole world changed in
Speaker 1: those three minutes. And then the producer Phantom in London
Speaker 1: saw that performance. Yep, Camera Macintosh and Angela it didn't
Speaker 1: see it, lie they saw video of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we watched it last night.
Speaker 1: I really Camera Macintosh, Angeloid whoever saw it and they're like,
Speaker 1: let's get him over from an audition for Phantom. And
Speaker 1: then six months later I was playing the Phantom in
Speaker 1: the West End, crazy and then you know, fast forward,
Speaker 1: you know, two hundred performances, COVID hit and then you know,
Speaker 1: it's all sort of came crashing down and I felt
Speaker 1: like I'd climbed another everest and fell off, you know
Speaker 1: the edge of that. And since my divorce, I'd been
Speaker 1: meditating and sort of entered into that world of spirituality
Speaker 1: and really asking myself who I am, am, I beyond
Speaker 1: what I do and yeah, really go into the deep
Speaker 1: dive of self. But that was like, so I had
Speaker 1: enough self awareness to go, I'm falling here, I'm descending.
Speaker 1: I could do that consciously and like make this a
Speaker 1: real time of like intense self discovery. So COVID for
Speaker 1: me was I did my meditation teach training. Did you
Speaker 1: yep with one giant mind?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 4: I love Johnny Johnny of course legend.
Speaker 2: I mean who else? Yeah? And incredible and.
Speaker 4: So like use that.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to learn more about meditation, not just
Speaker 1: as an active participant, but the deeper philosophies of it.
Speaker 1: So I did that all through twenty twenty and also
Speaker 1: did a course with a guy called Asha Pacman who
Speaker 1: runs a lot of men's circles and does some really
Speaker 1: very very deep work called The Warrior's Way, which goes
Speaker 1: into like Jungian psychology, takes on Joseph Campbell's Hero's journey,
Speaker 1: which some people may not know, but look at it
Speaker 1: if you don't. But really it's we go through the
Speaker 1: hero's journey individually all the time. But Star Wars and
Speaker 1: Luke Skywalk's journey is that Harry Potter's journey is that
Speaker 1: you know it. Ultimately, it's about finding a Guru in
Speaker 1: your life. And we're crossing over a threshold of can
Speaker 1: I do this or not? Can I leave my safe
Speaker 1: space and go into the uncomfortable, go into the uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: have to find a guru, find that guru, learn some things.
Speaker 1: Face one's death in a way, or the death of something,
Speaker 1: like something has to die, and in order to come
Speaker 1: out of that a new like almost repent in a
Speaker 1: way or apologize in a way for what has has been,
Speaker 1: to come back to where you were home completely new.
Speaker 1: And so we used a lot of myth and poetry.
Speaker 1: And but it's in a group of twenty something guys
Speaker 1: all on zoom opening up and wow. So you know,
Speaker 1: mine was definitely the death of as an artist, the
Speaker 1: validation and the attention and all of that, like really
Speaker 1: acknowledging that and knowing that my best start is when
Speaker 1: I live beyond that. And so like my obsession became
Speaker 1: in a course, there was a lot about storytelling. So
Speaker 1: about what am I. I'm a storyteller and that's what
Speaker 1: I love the most is finding character, feeling character and
Speaker 1: body and character and telling that character story. So that
Speaker 1: meant that COVID became this wonderful learning experience for me.
Speaker 1: Almost didn't want it to end. That did end with
Speaker 1: you know, starting back a phantom. But what's been wonderful
Speaker 1: is I go, I've God. After two hundred shows in
Speaker 1: London the ubsequent a couple hundred shows I get to
Speaker 1: do here, I feel so much more embodied and so
Speaker 1: much so interesting, so so much deeper into the man
Speaker 1: because of what for many people was a devastating time.
Speaker 1: And it was, and people died, and it's been awful
Speaker 1: and they still are it's shocking. But for me it
Speaker 1: was actually a time of great learning and self discovery.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I think that's so incredibly representative of
Speaker 2: a lot of people's conflict between knowing it was like
Speaker 2: one of the worst times humanity has ever been through,
Speaker 2: but a lot of people finding this clarity, clarity in
Speaker 2: the breakdown to break through. Kind of like such a cliche.
Speaker 2: But what I think CZA was for me before the
Speaker 2: pandemic was about trying to create a COVID lack shedding
Speaker 2: of everything, like just helping people realize that they're often
Speaker 2: chasing things they don't even know what they're chasing. They
Speaker 2: don't even know what success is or what happiness is,
Speaker 2: or whether they're following attention external stimulus, whether they're doing
Speaker 2: it because they want to, because they love to, because
Speaker 2: they're good at it, like people don't even know what
Speaker 2: their motivation is, the just doing it because of momentum.
Speaker 2: And I was sort of trying to say, like, you don't,
Speaker 2: you shouldn't need a breakdown to re evaluate those things.
Speaker 2: How can we maybe engineer these revelations a little bit
Speaker 2: earlier for you so that because most people it only
Speaker 2: happens when your life breaks down in some way that
Speaker 2: you have this we need a crisis. Yeah, you have
Speaker 2: this rock bottom moment and then you get this clarity.
Speaker 2: And I was sort of like, how can we learn
Speaker 2: from that happening to other people to maybe make you
Speaker 2: reevaluate your metrics for measuring your life without that? And
Speaker 2: then COVID happened, and it was like, well, you all
Speaker 2: get a clean slate. Here's a clean slate, here's a clean.
Speaker 1: Well it's a collective crisis, you know. So it was
Speaker 1: great for that and we all re established well or
Speaker 1: just established deeper connections to things beyond the identities that
Speaker 1: we were living with. So you know, oh my god,
Speaker 1: if I go walk barefoot in nature, if I watch
Speaker 1: a sunset, I feel fantastic?
Speaker 4: What is that?
Speaker 1: And so we go, oh, well, that's just being Yeah,
Speaker 1: what's being Oh? I'm a human being. That must be
Speaker 1: good because what I've been doing is human doing for
Speaker 1: so long. Yeah, and being, And that's something I spent
Speaker 1: a great day with Ben Crow once. If you know
Speaker 1: Ben Crow Mojo cro he's a very mindful man, but
Speaker 1: he's the mindset coach for lots of people in sport
Speaker 1: and in corporate world now, And so I spent a
Speaker 1: day with him, and that's something he talks about a
Speaker 1: lot that we suffer from human doing, and so when
Speaker 1: things come from a place of being, you feel fantastic.
Speaker 1: And so COVID did help that in a way, Like
Speaker 1: we got back to that with those basics, right, I
Speaker 1: think we're losing it now, we've all gone straight back
Speaker 1: to momentum. But how do we find that balance and
Speaker 1: how do we go When I feel a lack of clarity,
Speaker 1: When I feel hazy, I feel overwhelmed, or I feel anxious,
Speaker 1: I feel all these things. What was it that brought
Speaker 1: me out of that? In COVID? It was stopping, It
Speaker 1: was being, It was connecting to nature. It was connecting
Speaker 1: in another way to people we love on a deep level.
Speaker 1: It was sharing how you really feel. It was all
Speaker 1: those things that, yeah, non suppressive things really help us
Speaker 1: to open up and just be who we are.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I still find it incredibly difficult to keep that
Speaker 2: awareness and balance because I love my work, so the
Speaker 2: doing is also joyful and is also being because I
Speaker 2: enjoy it so much, which then means that I sometimes
Speaker 2: forget even though I talk about this, whole point of
Speaker 2: the show is this concept, and I still forget that
Speaker 2: play outside of my vocation needs to also have a role.
Speaker 2: And so because you know your day to day, you're
Speaker 2: doing shows every day, and I feel like something else
Speaker 2: about the show is that one person's joys another person's nightmare.
Speaker 2: But you just need to stick to what lights you
Speaker 2: are because who cares what anyone else thinks. Some people
Speaker 2: would think doing the same show, the same songs, the
Speaker 2: same performance every night would be like the worst thing
Speaker 2: in the entire world. But I imagine as a performer,
Speaker 2: it's like the stage is the stage. Like I never
Speaker 2: got bored.
Speaker 4: No, not at all.
Speaker 1: It might be the same songs, it's not the same performance.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I never got bored of doing the same poreography.
Speaker 1: Ever, No, there's always a nuance, there's always something to feel,
Speaker 1: and it's always a new day. You know, sometimes I
Speaker 1: have a different Christine, who's the other the female lead
Speaker 1: to play off. There's always newness and there's always something
Speaker 1: fresh to find, and I'm always I'll go out there
Speaker 1: and play. It is a play, it has music in it, like,
Speaker 1: so go out there and play. And I think as adults,
Speaker 1: I think with likelity, but actually what made us discover
Speaker 1: and and learn and grow and expand as children was play.
Speaker 1: So I'm always up for the play and I bring
Speaker 1: try and bring play into lots of other things in
Speaker 1: my life. And I think that's why. You know, one
Speaker 1: of the classes the Pitfit was called play.
Speaker 2: That's nice.
Speaker 4: Play is a huge.
Speaker 1: Part of my life and it keeps me, I think,
Speaker 1: more authentically me because when I think about, you know,
Speaker 1: who I am, there's something I definitely chat about with
Speaker 1: with Ben at the time, like who I am beyond
Speaker 1: the doing, Like I joy I'm joyful, I'm cheeky, I'm affectionate.
Speaker 1: There're three things that I think you offer up in
Speaker 1: the moment you start performance, in performed, but in play,
Speaker 1: Like when I play, I'm always joyful, I'm always cheeky,
Speaker 1: affectionate may not but like it comes from a place
Speaker 1: to love, so like bringing that being into what I do.
Speaker 1: That's where I think what you're saying is really prevalent
Speaker 1: or really connected, because I am connecting those the being
Speaker 1: and they're doing you're probably doing the same.
Speaker 2: And you look so like every time I've ever seen
Speaker 2: you saying, you look so thrilled to be there, Like,
Speaker 2: you just look so stoke. I'm just so sto because.
Speaker 1: I also realize, especially after COVID, the impermanence of it all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's just not going to You have
Speaker 2: to enjoy it while it's there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like like some people think it's really black. I
Speaker 1: think about death all the time, really all the time,
Speaker 1: because I think about it retrospectively because now because I
Speaker 1: don't want to think about it retrospectively when I'm eighty
Speaker 1: or ninety, or.
Speaker 2: You don't want to have regrets because you never thought
Speaker 2: about you.
Speaker 1: I want to think about the preciousness of life. I
Speaker 1: want to think about really enjoying and owning the moment.
Speaker 1: I want to think about what sort of legacy I'm
Speaker 1: going to lead, what sort of relationships I have, what
Speaker 1: sort of memories I want to create. So I'm doing
Speaker 1: that now so that when I hit nine.
Speaker 2: And go, oh God, I wish, I wish, I wish.
Speaker 1: I don't want any wishes. I want to live the
Speaker 1: wish now as much as possible. So all that does
Speaker 1: is create buckloads a gratitude for them I'm doing right now.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean the carols the other week. It's
Speaker 1: the first time I've done carols by candlelight. That's always
Speaker 1: been like on the first time, Yeah, but I was like,
Speaker 1: right now, this is also I'm like, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: just singing. I'm singing Song of Joy with a bit
Speaker 1: of phantom vibes behind us. I'm loving that combo and
Speaker 1: like Sea of ten thousand People or whatever, and you
Speaker 1: know it's in a million homes around Australia.
Speaker 4: I'm just like, this is so cool.
Speaker 1: And I'm Jewish. I love Christmas. Heap for Christmas.
Speaker 2: You can do Christmas. A lot of people do that.
Speaker 4: I just do for Christmas.
Speaker 1: I didn't even have theker you know, there's no there's
Speaker 1: no drade alls, there's no hanok out, It's just Christmas.
Speaker 4: Yeah. The throw on the being throw on all.
Speaker 2: The l booble is like one of the people you
Speaker 2: would love to sing with. Have you ever sung with them.
Speaker 4: I mean you'd know about it something. So what's happened
Speaker 4: in your life?
Speaker 2: I sung with booblo just weir.
Speaker 4: Get screw into the tattoo puts booble across.
Speaker 2: We can turn that into a boob face.
Speaker 4: Michael, if you're listening, I have.
Speaker 2: So many more questions. Oh my god, but I think
Speaker 2: I said that would be half an hour, and it's
Speaker 2: already been an hour because there's just so much to
Speaker 2: talk about. Two questions to finish with. One on what
Speaker 2: we were talking about was because you have so much
Speaker 2: joy in what you do. Do you have any play
Speaker 2: or any joys outside of like do you sing pop
Speaker 2: in your spare time? Do you do things that are
Speaker 2: not musical theater related?
Speaker 1: Yes, so all the time? Do I sing another? Like
Speaker 1: I impersonate all the time?
Speaker 2: Okay, so singing or just talking.
Speaker 1: Singing and talking, but mainly singing. So like we have
Speaker 1: to do a mic check before every act the show,
Speaker 1: so before act one and before act two, and so
Speaker 1: we have to go to the sound booth, and there's
Speaker 1: always a word of the day. So like let's say
Speaker 1: the word was better, I would immediately.
Speaker 4: Be like curn f Like I have to like always.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't just say better. You can't just yeah.
Speaker 4: If the word was hitching, I'd be like the Jenna right.
Speaker 1: Like I have to do it, like I always impersonate yep,
Speaker 1: And I think that's actually always have always impersonated. It's
Speaker 1: probably why I've got concinc classically, because I was just
Speaker 1: probably just impersonating.
Speaker 2: Like people your whole are great.
Speaker 1: Classical singers, or why Kroon I can croon quite well
Speaker 1: like Sinatra and all that because I'm just like impersonated
Speaker 1: a bit of Booblo and a bit of Sonati and
Speaker 1: a bit of Elvis in there and whymn millions of voices.
Speaker 1: I'm always doing voices.
Speaker 2: Do you do anything that's not musical? Like do you
Speaker 2: just have absolutely binge Netflix? Do you like puzzles or
Speaker 2: anything not puzzles?
Speaker 1: Binge Netflix? The shoot out of it? Like I listen
Speaker 1: to a lot of different music. I do love a
Speaker 1: lot of music.
Speaker 2: Do you listen to classical music or do you.
Speaker 4: Like literally everything?
Speaker 1: Okay, Like you know, I'll listen to Tracy Chapman and
Speaker 1: then I'll listen to like, you know, n w A
Speaker 1: and it's like so fast. Sport is a huge one
Speaker 1: for me massive, like you know, like just throw on
Speaker 1: the BBL, throw on, Like I'll watch every ball of
Speaker 1: a test match, love cricket, love tennis, love Ossie rules
Speaker 1: so so much, Like like can just sit there over
Speaker 1: a weekend and watch all nine games of around Like yeah,
Speaker 1: every moment. So I'm sort of nuts on on sport.
Speaker 1: That's probably my thing. And then it's just social and
Speaker 1: having great conversations with people. Obviously, the mindfulness world is big.
Speaker 1: Like after I leave you, I'm off to have a
Speaker 1: nice bath.
Speaker 2: So I love, I love, I whim half on.
Speaker 4: The show what I know, pulling let it go.
Speaker 2: One more serious question because and I should have asked
Speaker 2: this earlier. I just forgot to ask it. I think
Speaker 2: one thing with the arts, and also I think in
Speaker 2: our generation generally, I think we have come from a
Speaker 2: place where masculinity looks very much a certain way in Australia.
Speaker 4: Oh god, it's horrible.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's pretty archaic to now. I think
Speaker 2: the conversation has been changing a lot, men's mental health,
Speaker 2: men's circles, like men having any kind of vulnerability whatsoever. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I think it's slowly becoming more encouraged more accepted
Speaker 2: and the men look be come in lots of different ways,
Speaker 2: lots of different ways, and that it's not a weakness
Speaker 2: to show emotion, that it's not that they have, you know,
Speaker 2: the same mental health needs and challenges as women that
Speaker 2: if not more, because they don't ventilate them because it's
Speaker 2: still stigmatized, like all that kind of stuff. Have you
Speaker 2: ever found in musical theater that your concept of your
Speaker 2: masculinity you'ring makeup every day and since a time when
Speaker 2: it wasn't as open a conversation about what masculinity means?
Speaker 2: Was that ever a challenge for you?
Speaker 1: It was a challenge right at the start when I
Speaker 1: decided that I didn't want to like spend as much
Speaker 1: time on the footy field and I want to go
Speaker 1: and doing musicals and all of that.
Speaker 2: It's quind of drastic chain.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like so that was what I call PG,
Speaker 1: Like in how we have before Christ? Oh yeah we
Speaker 1: have pre Glee?
Speaker 6: Okay, yeah, And so yeah, Glee was a great way
Speaker 6: of normalizing straight boys or men in singing and dancing
Speaker 6: and doing with that.
Speaker 4: But I was I was.
Speaker 2: PG, and so it was a harder time than Yeah,
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah.
Speaker 1: You're fucking puffed, you're fucking gay, like and just oh
Speaker 1: you're fair going to that like just constant. It was
Speaker 1: like to a point where I'm going to be really
Speaker 1: open about this. I came out as bisexual to a
Speaker 1: whole group of mates just to stop getting ship.
Speaker 2: Because it was easier.
Speaker 1: Because it was easier. I've never been into guys. I've
Speaker 1: kissed a guy once in an audition and once in
Speaker 1: the scene study at UNI. Never otherwise has been attracted
Speaker 1: or you know, like.
Speaker 2: But it was just literally like just my back.
Speaker 1: You know, because I thought that would like, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: well if that's what that's what it is, then.
Speaker 4: Give him ship. Right.
Speaker 1: So it was just so so ridiculous. That was two
Speaker 1: thousand and two season and three. But since then, no,
Speaker 1: like high school mates would still like, you know, give
Speaker 1: me shirt or throw stuff at me, like like throw shade, yeah,
Speaker 1: and so like like literal chairs. I think it's so
Speaker 1: much better now. I still think our representation in media,
Speaker 1: in sports media, I hate to say it as much
Speaker 1: as I love sport, needs to be to have more
Speaker 1: diverse men in those positions so that we we see
Speaker 1: the full like spectrum of a man. Yeah, yep, and
Speaker 1: the full palette of colors that is it is to
Speaker 1: be human in a really binary world at the moment.
Speaker 1: You know, are you pro Trump, you're anti Trump, or
Speaker 1: you like you know, there's no middle grounds on a
Speaker 1: lot of things, but on what it is to be human.
Speaker 1: The complexity of humanity can't be black and white. We
Speaker 1: need to see all the colors. So we need to
Speaker 1: see our men being all different colors in the spotlight.
Speaker 1: And I'm glad that my friends who are in that
Speaker 1: space are that. Like, you know, Rob Mills was a
Speaker 1: great made of mind.
Speaker 2: I love ro he was like the last episode last year.
Speaker 1: Yeahs love such a fantastic representation of that. And I
Speaker 1: love the Mills. He gets much more airtime now and
Speaker 1: host things or is a guest on the project or whatever.
Speaker 1: And we see that. We see a guy who loves
Speaker 1: his footy and he's happy to you know, have a
Speaker 1: masculin ergy. He's happy to step into his feminine ergy
Speaker 1: and all the things in between. He can be camp
Speaker 1: at times, he can you know, just you know, pull
Speaker 1: a few beers at times, like it can be all
Speaker 1: the things. Yeah, and his book is fantastic for that.
Speaker 1: If people haven't, haven't read it. It's it's really wonderful
Speaker 1: and a great gateway into that world. So I think
Speaker 1: there's room for improvement.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, on the path absolutely well. Very last question, Yes,
Speaker 2: what is your favorite quote?
Speaker 4: Well, there's there's so many, but.
Speaker 2: I think someone who likes quotes, it's such a us.
Speaker 1: So many, but I'm going to go with two roomy quotes.
Speaker 1: I love Roomy, We love Roomy, and we love all
Speaker 1: the Sufi poets of that time we do. One is
Speaker 1: the cure for the pain is in the pain.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 1: And the other one is you have to keep breaking
Speaker 1: your heart until it opens. Oh.
Speaker 2: I love that there too, They're beautiful.
Speaker 4: Thanks.
Speaker 2: And I feel like any theory of joy, like I'm
Speaker 2: so like find this over learning everything's happy. But I
Speaker 2: also feel like any theory of happiness and joy and
Speaker 2: good things has to take account of like the darkness
Speaker 2: and the shadows and the pain that it takes to
Speaker 2: get there. Like if everything was all happy, that would
Speaker 2: become neutral and there'd be no color, there'd be no contrast.
Speaker 2: And you don't grow when you're happy and chilling and
Speaker 2: everything goes to plan, Like you become a better person
Speaker 2: in those times you enjoy them and you have a
Speaker 2: great time, but that's not where you find who you
Speaker 2: are and what you want and what the next chapter is.
Speaker 2: And I'd love so much about you that you're on
Speaker 2: this perpetual journey. And I think a lot of people
Speaker 2: find what makes them really happy, like the career in now,
Speaker 2: and then they become like this static image like I
Speaker 2: found happiness, I found six I'm going to chill here
Speaker 2: for the rest of every But you have this great
Speaker 2: sense of like, no, I'm always learning, I'm always on momentum.
Speaker 2: And I really try and encourage this idea of your
Speaker 2: joy as a jigsaw puzzle that is constantly adding more pieces,
Speaker 2: rid of pieces that don't work anymore. It's not like
Speaker 2: this painting on the wall that you leave and it
Speaker 2: stays there forever. It's like, oh, I love that. One
Speaker 2: day you might not want to sing anymore, or one
Speaker 2: day you might want to Like I'm like saying this.
Speaker 1: The whole sky scape of whatever it is that the
Speaker 1: jigsaw puzzle is of. I'm going with the skyscape. It's
Speaker 1: just continually expanding, expanding, expanding, Oh I love it.
Speaker 2: I mean one day you're just like, you know what
Speaker 2: those pieces, don't like them anymore over there, but I'll
Speaker 2: replace them with some new ones.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, a new building, guys. Just quickly, Hi everyone.
Speaker 7: We want to thank you all for showing up in
Speaker 7: full the horse to see the fans from the opera.
Speaker 7: When thrilled to announce that Phantom is now the highest
Speaker 7: attended show, Emma had the art set to melt.
Speaker 2: Yeah gosh, did that just come out there?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 6: What the fun?
Speaker 1: Yeah? And it was the quickest selling show to sell
Speaker 1: out the Sydney Opera HOS ever, So people really love Phantom.
Speaker 2: Congratulations.
Speaker 4: I'm really stoked with that.
Speaker 1: And you know what I'm like, I'm really stoked with
Speaker 1: you know, obviously the production is fantastic and everyone in
Speaker 1: it it is fantastic. Everyone works on it is wonderful.
Speaker 1: But like that, people have been waiting for the arts
Speaker 1: to like re emerge and like this like to be
Speaker 1: such a huge part of renaissance arts in this country
Speaker 1: after like it being by the wayside for eighteen months
Speaker 1: with COVID. Just to know that Australia actually does love it,
Speaker 1: it's awesome. So what stats like that's yeah, insane, So
Speaker 1: it's fantastic.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for joining. How long is
Speaker 2: the Phantom one until February the eighteenth? Okay, oh my god?
Speaker 2: And how many are you doing? Are you supposed to
Speaker 2: be doing every single I'm like.
Speaker 1: That yeah pretty much always really yea eye a week
Speaker 1: unless some shit a week. Yep, that's what I do.
Speaker 1: That's the job.
Speaker 2: How is your skin like that you wear so much makeup?
Speaker 2: Cocon Really?
Speaker 1: I take my makeup off with coconut oil and I
Speaker 1: use something called skin food by Wilidada.
Speaker 4: I'm sure it's German.
Speaker 2: Yes, your skin is amazing, fankstars. Literally when I wear
Speaker 2: makeup every night for three nights in a row, it's
Speaker 2: just and half the makeup you wear, like yeah.
Speaker 1: But it's not just. It's like spirit gum and gloom
Speaker 1: and all that sort of keep the prosthetics on.
Speaker 2: Its vile, but it's but you work it. On TikTok
Speaker 2: where can we follow you?
Speaker 1: Also at Josh on Instagram and at Josh Pittman on
Speaker 1: the Talk on the Top and one in one t
Speaker 1: and in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my brain's like still in like January? What does
Speaker 2: that even mean?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 2: One T one in and I will include the link
Speaker 2: to tickets to the Phantom so you can go and
Speaker 2: see Josh life and action.
Speaker 4: Thanks so much, thanks having me so thank you so much.
Speaker 2: What a fascinating human being and incredible voice. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: the way he just opens his mouth and sings that way,
Speaker 2: it's insane. As promised, I will put the links to
Speaker 2: Josh's pages and the Phantom tickets and highly recommend that
Speaker 2: you go and see him if you can. As usual,
Speaker 2: please shower Josh with some neighborhood love for so generously
Speaker 2: giving us his time and very precious voice, and share
Speaker 2: tagging at Josh Pittman and us so we can keep
Speaker 2: growing the neighborhood as far and wide as possible. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: Melbourne Family Pop February sixteenth in your calendars and stay
Speaker 2: tuned for more. I hope you're having an amazing day
Speaker 2: and a sea than you.
Speaker 3: Yay,