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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma mea podcast. Momma Mia acknowledges the

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Speaker 1: traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is

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Speaker 1: recorded on Hello. They're just a warning if you have

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Speaker 1: not watched the Netflix Dallas Cowboys Cheerleader doco yet, then

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Speaker 1: hold on, Spoilers are incoming.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma MIA's daily news podcast,

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Speaker 1: The Quickie. Have you watched Netflix's America's Sweethearts yet?

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Speaker 3: You need to look like a supermodel, but perform like

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Speaker 3: an athlete. Once that uniform comes on, all of the

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Speaker 3: flaws and the problems go out the door.

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Speaker 4: To hear a crowd like that roar for you, It's

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Speaker 4: almost you for it.

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Speaker 1: It's opened the world up to fully understand what the

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Speaker 1: women who work for this team go through to earn

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Speaker 1: a place in the squad. But it also uncovers a

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Speaker 1: whole lot more than that, including a shocking pay issue,

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Speaker 1: toxic body image problems, and a culture where women manage

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Speaker 1: to find sisterhood despite at all. Before we attempt to

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Speaker 1: pull on those famous white shorts, here's the laterst from

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Speaker 1: the Quikie newsroom, Wednesday, July three. It's looking increasingly likely

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Speaker 1: that Labour Senator Fatima Payman will leave the party to

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Speaker 1: sit on the cross bench after being suspended for crossing

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Speaker 1: the floor. Senator payment has enlisted the help of a

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Speaker 1: man known as the preference Whisperer in Canberra for his

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Speaker 1: ability to show minor parties how to become more politically successful,

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Speaker 1: hinting this may see her move to the cross bench.

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Speaker 1: The Prime Minister says he'd like to see her stay

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Speaker 1: with Labour despite the dispute between her and colleagues over

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Speaker 1: her crossing the floor on the issue of Palestinian statehood,

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Speaker 1: but says while this is a decision for her, she's

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Speaker 1: also made the decision that she can't be bound by

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Speaker 1: what puts the team together. US Representative Lloyd Doggett has

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Speaker 1: become the first Congressional Democrat to formerly call on President

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden to withdraw from the presidential race following his

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Speaker 1: widely panned debate performance. Dogget a member for Texts, applauded

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Speaker 1: Biden's transformative first term in offers, but says it's time

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Speaker 1: to let another member of the party challenge Donald Trump, saying,

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Speaker 1: unlike Trump, President Biden's first commitment has always been to

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Speaker 1: the country, not himself, asking Biden to make the painful

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Speaker 1: and difficult decision to withdraw. Biden's team has been scrambling

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Speaker 1: to reassure voters that the president is not too old

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Speaker 1: to continue in his role as the country's leader, but

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Speaker 1: his performance out the recent debate with Donald Trump has

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Speaker 1: cast even more of a shadow over whether he can

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Speaker 1: survive in the job for another term. Still in the

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Speaker 1: US and the judge presiding over Donald Trump's hush money

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Speaker 1: trial has agreed to delay sentencing to allow the former

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Speaker 1: president to argue that he should have been immune from prosecution.

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Speaker 1: The decision came after the U s. Supreme Court ruled

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Speaker 1: this week that presidents are entitled to immunity from criminal

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Speaker 1: prosecution for official acts. Trump facing a tough battle to

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Speaker 1: convince the judge he was immune in this case, as

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Speaker 1: most of the conduct predated his time in office. The

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Speaker 1: delay in sentencing could work against Trump also. If he

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Speaker 1: doesn't convince the judge she was immune to prosecution, he

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Speaker 1: risks being sent to jail just days before the Republican

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Speaker 1: National Convention begins on July fifteen. The nurse who's been

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Speaker 1: dubbed the UK's most prolific child serial killer in modern Times,

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Speaker 1: Lucy LETB has been found guilty of trying to murder

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Speaker 1: another newborn baby. The thirty four year old was found

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Speaker 1: guilty last August of murdering seven babies between twenty fifteen

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Speaker 1: and twenty sixteen while working as a nurse in the

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Speaker 1: neonatal unit of the Countess of Chester Hospital in northern England.

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Speaker 1: She was jailed for life, never to be released, despite

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Speaker 1: the nurse's denials of ever hurting any of the children

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Speaker 1: in her care. Last month, she was put on trial

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Speaker 1: for a second time, this time accused of killing a

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Speaker 1: baby girl known as Child K, a charge the original

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Speaker 1: jury in twenty twenty three had failed to reach a

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Speaker 1: verdict on. Child K was born prematurely in February twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: when the doctor caring for her walked in to find

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Speaker 1: her breathing tube dislodged and the alarm switched off. While

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Speaker 1: let be stood by doing nothing, the baby was moved

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Speaker 1: to another hospital, where she died three days later. That's

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Speaker 1: What's happening across the Globe today. Next, we delve into

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Speaker 1: the sparkly, bright, smiled world of cheerleading and find out

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Speaker 1: from two women who've cheered here in Australia, whether it's

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Speaker 1: as deeply troubling as we've seen in the locker rooms

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Speaker 1: of the Dallas Cowboys. The uniform of a Dallas Cowboys

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Speaker 1: cheerleader hasn't changed much in fifty years, but when it

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Speaker 1: first debuted, it was a big swing away from the

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Speaker 1: team's origins. As the new Netflix documentary America's Sweethearts explains,

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Speaker 1: the previously co ed high school squad was swapped out

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Speaker 1: for women over the age of eighteen who would wear

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Speaker 1: tiny white shirts, a blue front time midriff bearing blouse,

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Speaker 1: a white fringed vest, and white cowboy boots. It was

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Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies and the introduction of this cheerleading outfit

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Speaker 1: and squad would, as the team admits, help the franchise

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Speaker 1: become one of the most successful and prosperous in the league.

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Speaker 1: But while the pay packets of the owners and the

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Speaker 1: admin and the players all rose significantly in the decades

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Speaker 1: that follow like they're never changing outfit, the pay packets

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Speaker 1: of the cheerleaders remains to this day shockingly low.

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Speaker 5: I would say I'm making like.

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Speaker 1: A Chick fil A worker that works full time. That's Kat,

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Speaker 1: one of the team's former members, and this is Charlotte Jones.

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Speaker 1: Her family owns the team, and she explains why they

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Speaker 1: don't pay them that much.

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Speaker 3: The facts are is that they actually don't come here

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Speaker 3: for the money. They come here for something that's actually

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Speaker 3: bigger than that. To them. They have a passion for dance.

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Speaker 3: There are not a lot of opportunities in the field

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Speaker 3: of dance to get to perform at an elite level.

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Speaker 1: She has since responded to those comments, backing up stance,

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Speaker 1: saying that these women don't audition for the money, but

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Speaker 1: rather the sisterhood. That passion means that pretty much all

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Speaker 1: of them, despite having to attend mandatory weeknight rehearsals, performances

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Speaker 1: on weekends while also contributing to public appearances. Outside of

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Speaker 1: those commitments, they have to hold down second jobs in

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Speaker 1: order to pay their rent. So those who may be

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Speaker 1: shaking those pomp poms at a game on Saturday are

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Speaker 1: also nurses, orthodontists, florists, and financial advisors. But how much

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Speaker 1: do they actually make as a cheerleader. Well, it turns

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Speaker 1: out journalists have had a tough time getting a straight

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Speaker 1: answer on this. The docu series maker Greg Whitely told

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Speaker 1: Glamour that he was never able to get a clear

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Speaker 1: response to the pay question, but believed they may be

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Speaker 1: getting more depending on how senior they are in the team,

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Speaker 1: and possibly more again if they're a group leader, but

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Speaker 1: the actual amount was never confirmed. NBC was reporting that

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Speaker 1: they earned five hundred dollars per game in twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 1: so around fifteen to twenty dollars an hour. While higher

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Speaker 1: than the average for an NFL cheerleader, it still pales

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Speaker 1: in comparison to the millions that the players earn or

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Speaker 1: that the Dallas Cowboys, one of the NFL's most valuable

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Speaker 1: teams in twenty twenty three, estimated to be worth around

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Speaker 1: nine billion dollars. The cheerleaders do get their uniforms paid for,

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Speaker 1: along with some meals, gym memberships, and salon appointments, and

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Speaker 1: some speculate that overall the pay might be somewhere in

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Speaker 1: the vicinity of twenty to thirty thousand dollars a year.

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Speaker 1: While the low pay for a job that benefits the

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Speaker 1: company so much has been leading the headline since the

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Speaker 1: Netflix documentary debuted, the show has also exposed a lot

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Speaker 1: of other issues around the sport of cheerleading. For example,

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Speaker 1: the list of rules they have to follow is extensive

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Speaker 1: and sometimes problematic.

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Speaker 5: Full hair and makeup every day you get there on time.

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Speaker 3: You need to know your stuff.

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Speaker 5: Have you ever had bad experiences with Mann? There is

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Speaker 5: one acceptable answer here as a cheerleader.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 1: The body shaming took us right back to the early

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Speaker 1: two thousands, where we thought it was completely acceptable for

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Speaker 1: those in media to ask young stars about their weight.

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Speaker 5: It was said, how do you look in the uniform?

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Speaker 5: You know, do you have a muffin top?

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Speaker 1: Then there's the eating disorders that were the result of

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Speaker 1: that body shaming, which they discussed on the show as

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Speaker 1: the cheerleader's fault for not fueling themselves properly. There's the

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Speaker 1: letting go of women of color from the audition process

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Speaker 1: because they just don't look right, the shocking, sometimes life

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Speaker 1: altering injuries these cheerleaders face after retirement, especially from doing

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Speaker 1: their signature jump into splits during their opening number. And

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Speaker 1: then there's the danger these women face by being the

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Speaker 1: embodiment of a wholesome, clean, single, often outwardly Christian woman

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Speaker 1: asked to remove her wedding ring on game day while

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Speaker 1: having her body exploited and facing threats to her physical safety.

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Speaker 5: People get so freakin' handsy.

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Speaker 2: I've had letters since my personal address of like I

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Speaker 2: know where you live.

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Speaker 3: There was somebody that kept calling the Dallas Cowboys and

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Speaker 3: they were going to kill me.

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Speaker 1: The show even captures a moment where one of the cheerleaders, Sophie,

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Speaker 1: is allegedly inappropriately touched by a cameraman during a game,

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Speaker 1: an allegation police would later deem not to have enough

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Speaker 1: evidence to pursue.

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Speaker 6: So I was going out after halftime to do our

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Speaker 6: third quarter and as we started dancing and I was

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Speaker 6: facing the audience, a photographer came from behind and he

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Speaker 6: grabbed my button waist.

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Speaker 1: So what is it like for Australian cheerleaders? Are they

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Speaker 1: facing the same conditions as what we've seen in the

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Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys team. Madison was a cheerleader for an NRL

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Speaker 1: team based in New South Wales and says she'd always

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Speaker 1: been a fan of the game itself and so I

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Speaker 1: was just excited to be involved.

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Speaker 4: As a child, I was brought up going to matches

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Speaker 4: all the home games every week, and on top of that,

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Speaker 4: I was also a dancer from a young age. So

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Speaker 4: combine my two loves, they have it in my head

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Speaker 4: I went, I get paid to watch the football, this

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Speaker 4: is great and dance.

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Speaker 1: When it came to uniform fittings, like we've seen in

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Speaker 1: this cheerleading documentary for the Dallas Cowboys, it's very specific.

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Speaker 1: It's tailored to them, and then they're told, you can't

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Speaker 1: get any bigger during the season.

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Speaker 2: This is it.

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Speaker 1: You have to stay this way. Did you feel pressure,

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Speaker 1: even if it wasn't implicitly implied, did you feel pressured

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Speaker 1: to maintain a certain weight whilst you were performing as

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Speaker 1: a cheerleader.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, I mean that is very standard in the

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Speaker 4: dance industry generally. It's something we're always dealing with. I've

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Speaker 4: had other contracts where we've been weighed weekly. We weren't

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Speaker 4: specifically with the cheersquad weight or anything like that, but

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Speaker 4: it is a very much an unspoken rule that yet

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Speaker 4: you have to maintain the same weight as you were hired,

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Speaker 4: I would say, And I mean part of that is

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Speaker 4: to make sure you still do fit into your costume.

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Speaker 4: They you know, don't want to be altering them, I guess,

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Speaker 4: but it's definitely a requirement.

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Speaker 5: I would say.

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Speaker 1: Now, I don't know if this happened to you, but

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Speaker 1: if you had witnessed this with anyone else that you

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Speaker 1: performed with. What happens if somebody does not manage to

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Speaker 1: maintain that weight through a season.

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Speaker 4: Again, not specifically with the cheer squad itself, but on

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Speaker 4: other dance contracts I've done, we've had what they call

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Speaker 4: weight warnings. So if you do gain more than a

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Speaker 4: few kilos in your weigh ins, they will put you

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Speaker 4: on a weight watch, I guess you'd say, and if

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Speaker 4: you don't lose that weight in the next couple of

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Speaker 4: weeks months, then I guess they would take further action.

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Speaker 4: I've never had to see what that looks like exactly,

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Speaker 4: but yeah, it is something that is monitored.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us how much you got paid to

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Speaker 1: be an n Real cheerleader?

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Speaker 5: Well, look, the rate wasn't good.

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Speaker 4: We basically got a game fee, so we only got

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Speaker 4: paid when we performed at a game. So that fee,

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Speaker 4: though included weekly rehearsals, an on field rehearsal the day

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Speaker 4: of the game early morning, and then as well as

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Speaker 4: the game call itself, where you were there prior to

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Speaker 4: the match. You did meet in greets fans, you sat

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Speaker 4: on the field during the game, you performed at halftime,

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Speaker 4: and then you did degreets after the match as well,

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Speaker 4: So in the hours that you put in, I would

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Speaker 4: say our houri rage would have come down less than

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Speaker 4: five dollars an hour. Because we've also got to remember

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Speaker 4: home games only came around every two weeks or so,

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Speaker 4: but we were rehearsing weekly, and you also didn't necessarily

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Speaker 4: get to do every home game because there was more

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Speaker 4: cheerleaders than they needed on field. So sometimes you go

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Speaker 4: four weeks without being paid.

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Speaker 1: This was quite a few years ago. Do you know

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Speaker 1: if that situation has changed at all? Cheerleaders getting paid

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Speaker 1: any better now? Do you think?

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Speaker 5: I don't believe so.

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Speaker 4: I can't give an exact number on it, but from

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Speaker 4: things I've heard here and there, it's not.

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Speaker 5: Even really increased.

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Speaker 4: I'll say, with inflation in the last how many years,

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Speaker 4: I think it's still quite terrible. To be honest, it's

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Speaker 4: not acceptable pay. I mean, I know a lot of

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Speaker 4: people want to say the cheerleaders of the side show,

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Speaker 4: they're not the main show. And you know we're not

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Speaker 4: asking that they be paid the same as the footballers.

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Speaker 4: That's not about that. It's about paying fair livable amount

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Speaker 4: of money for what they're being asked to do.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the cheerleaders and the doco two mentioned

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Speaker 1: that there were times where they felt unsafe, either on

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Speaker 1: a game day where they're obviously wearing uniforms that are

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Speaker 1: quite revealing, and would sometimes encounter fans who got a

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Speaker 1: little handsy, even to the point where some have been

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Speaker 1: quite viciously stalked and had threats against them. Have you

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Speaker 1: ever experienced anything like that in your time as a cheerleader.

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Speaker 4: Not to the extent of for stalking, no, but definitely

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Speaker 4: fans yelling, you know, lude things that you're on the sideline,

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Speaker 4: you know, quite sexual things or just nasty and degrading

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Speaker 4: throwing things at us. That was always nice. Yeah, And

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Speaker 4: like when you're doing your meat and greets and things,

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Speaker 4: you do have to watch that they get a bit handsy.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I'm a lot older now. I wouldn't put

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Speaker 4: up with it the way I did back then, but

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Speaker 4: a lot of these girls are quite young, and you

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Speaker 4: do just copy it because you know, you feel like

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Speaker 4: it's expected of you sometimes and it's really not on.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think that is? I mean, when you're

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Speaker 1: looking at the documentary, for example, they are forced to

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Speaker 1: wear very very tiny costumes, but they're also expected to

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Speaker 1: give off this kind of wholesome, good girl image. At

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Speaker 1: the same time, why do you think women who choose

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Speaker 1: to cheerlead are shown such little respect? Is it just

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Speaker 1: the venue that they're in, a hyper masculine football arena,

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Speaker 1: or is there more to it than that, you think?

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Speaker 5: I think both.

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Speaker 4: I mean from my years in the dance industry, generally,

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Speaker 4: I find that we're not given much respect. I can't

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Speaker 4: tell you exactly why. I think it's very much a

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Speaker 4: cultural thing in Australia. Absolutely being at a football match

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Speaker 4: is going to exacerbate that. I think Australians like to

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Speaker 4: just look down on I'll say dancers and artists and

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Speaker 4: the arts generally, and on women that who's to wear,

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Speaker 4: Like you said, a bit skimpier clothing. It's always looked

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Speaker 4: at through the mailgaze. Even women will say that to you,

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Speaker 4: oh well you are wearing nothing, what do you expect?

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Speaker 4: And I just think it's a cultural shift that needs

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Speaker 4: to happen of if we're comfortable wearing a certain thing,

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Speaker 4: we should be allowed to wear it.

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Speaker 1: Courtney has been on the sidelines professionally cheering for nbl

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Speaker 1: AFL and cricket teams across her career and says it

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Speaker 1: was a lure of finally being paid for something she'd

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Speaker 1: trained for so long to do. That brought her in.

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Speaker 2: I grew up doing dancing, so obviously with that you're

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Speaker 2: kind of looking for that future opportunity to then perform

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Speaker 2: and be paid for it. So that was the drive there,

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Speaker 2: And obviously there's not a lot of opportunities, so cheerleading

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Speaker 2: was the main one.

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Speaker 5: And yeah, I got there.

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Speaker 1: When you finally were getting paid. Were you getting paid enough?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Well no, upon reflection, it was like fifty dollars a

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Speaker 2: game that we'd get paid.

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Speaker 5: So you're not doing it for the money, you do

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Speaker 5: it for the love.

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Speaker 2: And you're obviously working another job on the side. I

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Speaker 2: had a full time role and I would you know,

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day, get into the bathroom,

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Speaker 2: s jazz up, drive off to the cheerleading gig and

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Speaker 2: get that done as well. So, yeah, you're juggling the life.

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Speaker 1: Can we talk about the physicality of it and the

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Speaker 1: bodies that cheerleaders inhabit and are expected to inhabit. Did

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Speaker 1: you feel pressured to look a certain way and was

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Speaker 1: there a lot of discussion amongst you and your colleagues

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Speaker 1: about having to maintain a certain weight or having to

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Speaker 1: look a certain way. What was that experience like for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I was lucky in that I've always

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Speaker 2: been small in height but also in my body and

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Speaker 2: my figure, so I didn't really experience a lot. But

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Speaker 2: in saying that, you know, we were always wearing minimal

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Speaker 2: so you are always putting tan on and then putting

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Speaker 2: the glitter over the tan as well, and you're sitting

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Speaker 2: on the sideline, so you want to be sitting up

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Speaker 2: strength so you don't have any tummy roles or anything,

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Speaker 2: so we are thinking about it. For me, wasn't a

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Speaker 2: huge issue, but I did in my first audition for

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Speaker 2: a team get tapped on the shoulder and told, look,

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Speaker 2: we want you to tone up your tummy a bit.

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Speaker 5: And now thinking back to that, I was.

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Speaker 2: Only about eighteen nineteen, so I think it was just

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Speaker 2: a little bit of you know, puppy fat. And I

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Speaker 2: can see now how your body changes as you get older,

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Speaker 2: and yes, are carrying some puppy fat when you're younger,

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Speaker 2: but you're small build anyway, So I think then the

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Speaker 2: difference is when you go to the gym and you're

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Speaker 2: actually toning up and working for that body.

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Speaker 5: You see the difference in the sizes.

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Speaker 2: But I think with my youth, I was a bit

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Speaker 2: naive about all of that and was just lucky it

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Speaker 2: didn't really impact me as much. But it's certainly something

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Speaker 2: that in this day and age, I think with social

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Speaker 2: media and TV shows like DCC, you do see the

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Speaker 2: impact is going to have on children now than women

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Speaker 2: growing up.

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Speaker 1: What was diversity like in the teams that you cheating

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Speaker 1: Because you have cheating a few and you are a

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Speaker 1: white woman, you have blonde hair, you are what I

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Speaker 1: guess the majority of our culture would expect a cheerleader

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Speaker 1: to look like. But was there much diversity within the

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Speaker 1: ranks of cheerleaders within your colleagues.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's so true.

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Speaker 2: I am definitely your blonde hair dancing cheerleader. But look,

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Speaker 2: I think it wasn't a major thing back then. But

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Speaker 2: in terms of the difference with the girls, it.

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Speaker 5: Was curly hair, short hair, long hair, red hair.

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Speaker 2: There wasn't that diversity in ethnicity or anything, so unless

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Speaker 2: there was the girls trying out, but there certainly wasn't

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Speaker 2: that push for oh, we need, you know, someone of

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Speaker 2: this skin color, and we need someone of this race

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Speaker 2: in the team that drive to have to do that.

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Speaker 1: The one thing that seems to bring all of these

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Speaker 1: women together is the sisterhood they find in the colleagues

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Speaker 1: around them, something they find hard to replicate out in

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Speaker 1: the real world after retiring from the squad. It's that

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Speaker 1: group of friends that makes it for them all worthwhile.

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Speaker 2: The camaraderie you build with the team last forever. And

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Speaker 2: I've got friendships that are twenty years long now thinking

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Speaker 2: back to all the teams we've been in.

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Speaker 5: And it is because you are part of a team.

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Speaker 2: It's almost lack that sporting team atmosphere where you are

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Speaker 2: going through those same experiences and experiencing those highs and

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Speaker 2: lows together that really connects you and builds those long

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Speaker 2: lasting friendships.

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Speaker 5: So it's worth it.

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Speaker 1: And while many are shocked that the Dallas Cowboys allowed

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Speaker 1: Netflix this much access to their behind the scenes and

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00:19:37,094 --> 00:19:39,654
Speaker 1: that they haven't tried to stop it from airing, it's

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Speaker 1: because they know that despite the ugly dark side that

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Speaker 1: this show has exposed, it will not stop hundreds more

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Speaker 1: women from lining up to audition next year. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: tuning in today, Friends. The Quickie is produced by me

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Speaker 1: Claire Murphy and our senior producer Telestrano, with audio production

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Speaker 1: by Tom Lyon. Oh one last thing in case you

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Speaker 1: didn't know, Momamiyad just turned seventeen. Yes we are young,

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Speaker 1: but we are wise. But because we already have the

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00:20:07,214 --> 00:20:09,534
Speaker 1: gift of you lending us your ears every day time

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00:20:09,654 --> 00:20:12,214
Speaker 1: listen to this show, we are more than happy to

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00:20:12,254 --> 00:20:15,534
Speaker 1: turn the birthday tables and give you something instead. Right now,

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Speaker 1: you can get twenty dollars off a Mamma Mere subscription

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Speaker 1: by using the code TQ Birthday. The offer is only

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Speaker 1: until the end of this week, so get on it.

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Speaker 1: You can find all the details in our show notes