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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Malaria Brophy and this is Mumma MIA's twice

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Speaker 2: daily news podcast, The Quickie Well. Daylight Saving is back,

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Speaker 2: and so is the annual argument.

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Speaker 3: And while some love the season of long sun drenched nights,

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Speaker 3: others rage over the confusing time zones and the downright

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Speaker 3: state sanctioned sleep theft. But this year the debate hits

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Speaker 3: different after new research revealed we've got it all very wrong.

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Speaker 3: But before we get there, here's Claire Murphy with the

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Speaker 3: latest from the Quickie newsroom for Tuesday, October seven.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Laria, leaders across the globe will commemorate the deaths

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Speaker 1: of twelve hundred Israelis and the taking of two hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty hostages by Hamas on this day two years ago,

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Speaker 1: as mediators continue to try to brok or a ceasefire agreement,

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister Anthony Abernezi described October seven as a day

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Speaker 1: of pain and terror for Jewish people around the world

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Speaker 1: that must be remembered to remind of the suffering endured,

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Speaker 1: saying we must never forget the atrocities that were inflicted

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Speaker 1: by Hamas he said, we also think of those still

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Speaker 1: held hostage and join with our partners around the world

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Speaker 1: in calling for the hostages to be returned immediately and

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Speaker 1: with dignity. Australian Danny Masna, a survivor of the October

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Speaker 1: seven attack, is expected to attend Parliament today to mark

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Speaker 1: the anniversary of his brother Gelid's death. The attack triggered

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Speaker 1: an Israeli military campaign that has killed more than sixty

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Speaker 1: six thousand Palestinians. The U. S. Supreme Court has declined

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Speaker 1: to hear Gallaine Maxwell's bid to overturn her conviction for

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Speaker 1: helping the late financier and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein

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Speaker 1: sexually abused teenage girls. Maxwell's lawyers contend that her conviction

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Speaker 1: was invalid because a non prosecution and plea agreement that

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Speaker 1: federal prosecutors made with Epstein in Flora in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and seven also shielded his associates and should have barred

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Speaker 1: her criminal prosecution.

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Speaker 4: In New York.

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Speaker 1: The justices turned away an appeal by Maxwell, a British

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Speaker 1: socialite in Epstein's former girlfriend who serving a twenty year

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Speaker 1: prison sentence after being found guilty in twenty twenty one

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Speaker 1: by jury in New York on charges including sex trafficking

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Speaker 1: of a minor by doing so, the justices let stand

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Speaker 1: a lower court's decision upholding Maxwell's conviction. The justices did

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Speaker 1: not explain their reasoning in turning away Maxwell's appeal. Israeli

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Speaker 1: authorities say they've deported campaigner Gretadunberg and another one hundred

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Speaker 1: and seventy activists from an international flotilla prevented last week

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Speaker 1: from delivering aid to the Gaza Strip, sending them to

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Speaker 1: Greece and Slovakia. Swiss and Spanish activists from the flotilla

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Speaker 1: say they were subjected to inhumane conditions during their detention

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Speaker 1: by Israeli forces. Among nine members of the flotilla who

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Speaker 1: arrived home in Switzerland, some alleged sleep deprivation, lack of

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Speaker 1: water and food, as well as some being beaten, kicked,

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Speaker 1: and locked in a cage. Spanish activists also alleged miss

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Speaker 1: treatment on their arrival in Spain late on Sunday, saying

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Speaker 1: they beat us, dragged us along the ground, blindfolded us,

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Speaker 1: tied our hands and feet, put us in cages. And

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Speaker 1: insulted US. Swedish activists set on Saturday that Dumberg was

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Speaker 1: shoved and forced to wear inn Israeli flagged during her detention,

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Speaker 1: while others say they had clean food and water withheld

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Speaker 1: and had their medication and belongings confiscated, and Israeli Foreign

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Speaker 1: Ministry spokesperson rejected the allegations, their Foreign Ministry issuing a

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Speaker 1: statement accompanied by photos of Dumberg at the airport saying

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Speaker 1: all participants legal rights had been upheld and the only

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Speaker 1: violence involved was an activist who bit a female medic.

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Speaker 1: British author Jilly Cooper, known for her best selling risque novels,

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Speaker 1: including Rivals, which was made into a TV show, has

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Speaker 1: died at age eighty eight. A statement from her family

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Speaker 1: on Monday said the author's unexpected death has come as

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Speaker 1: a complete shock. Former journalist Cooper was best known for

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Speaker 1: her books in the Runtshire Chronicles, which portrayed the sex,

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Speaker 1: limes and excesses of the well off horse riding set

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Speaker 1: in nineteen eighties England. The books, known as Bonkbusters, sold

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Speaker 1: millions of copies in the UK alone. Rivals was last

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Speaker 1: year made into a TV show for Disney Plass starring

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Speaker 1: David Tennant and Alex Hassel. Her agent Felicity Blunt set

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Speaker 1: in a statement, the privilege of my career has been

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Speaker 1: working with a woman who has defined culture, writing and

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Speaker 1: conversation since she was first published over fifty years ago.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Claire. Next why daylight saving may not be a

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Speaker 2: bright idea anymore? And just like that, parts of Australia

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Speaker 2: moved the clock forward as daylight saving kicked in over

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Speaker 2: the weekend. At two am on Sunday across New South Wales, Victoria, Tasmania,

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Speaker 2: South Australia and the Act, the clocks jumped to three am,

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Speaker 2: effectively losing one hour of slip keep overnight. The NT,

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Speaker 2: Queensland and WA, of course, stay on standard time, despite

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Speaker 2: the endless debate fueled by regional differences in climate and industry. Famously,

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Speaker 2: the late Queensland premiere Joe Bilk Petersen once argued it

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Speaker 2: faded curtains and disorientated the cows. But if springing forward

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Speaker 2: today has you dragging your feet, it's not in your head.

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Speaker 2: In fact, it's in your body. Clock yep. In the

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Speaker 2: most evidence based study yet, US scientists have confirmed daylight

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Speaker 2: saving is kind of bad for our health like long

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Speaker 2: term hazard's bad. Stanford University researchers wig up how three

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Speaker 2: different daylight scenarios permanent standard time, permanent daylight saving time,

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Speaker 2: and the current switch could impact people's circadian rhythms. That's,

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Speaker 2: of course, our bodies built in clock and in turn

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Speaker 2: their health, and discovered we've made the worst possible choice

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Speaker 2: as far as circadian rhythms are concerned. Anyway, finding permanent

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Speaker 2: standard time i e. Never shifting the clocks is definitely

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Speaker 2: better for our health than switching. In fact, they found

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Speaker 2: staying on standard time all year round would lead to

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Speaker 2: a decrease in the prevalence of obesity and strokes. But

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Speaker 2: why well, one of the key issues is that during

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Speaker 2: the switch, our bodies become less aligned with the sun's cycle.

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Speaker 2: Researchers actually reckon we generally need more morning light and

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Speaker 2: less evening sun for optimal health and to keep in

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Speaker 2: sync with a twenty four hour day. This misalignment is

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Speaker 2: associated with shorter sleep duration and has a knock on

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Speaker 2: effect and may increase stress on our precious organs and systems.

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Speaker 2: As we know, health researchers have long worn that this

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Speaker 2: kind of clock shifting can carry biological costs, particularly the

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Speaker 2: sudden disruption on our internal body clock, the circadian rhythms

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Speaker 2: that regulate sleep, hormone cycles, metabolism, and cardiovascular function. Of course,

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Speaker 2: like most things, the issue isn't fully clear as day yet.

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Speaker 2: Even though this study is the most evidence based investigation

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Speaker 2: of long term health impacts across different time scenarios, there's

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Speaker 2: some light exposure factors the researchers didn't take into consideration,

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Speaker 2: such as weather, geography, and human behavior. There's also the

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Speaker 2: supporters of daylight saving that have long argued in improves

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Speaker 2: energy uses, there's less reliance on artificial light, it can

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Speaker 2: deter crime, and can offer better lifestyle options, like more

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Speaker 2: fun than the sun after work. So where did this

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Speaker 2: idea even come from. Daylight saving as we know it

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Speaker 2: first took hold about a century ago. With coal in

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Speaker 2: short supply and factories running over time, governments look for

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Speaker 2: ways to stretch natural daylight and cut fuel demand. Europe

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Speaker 2: and the UK were first followed by some parts of

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Speaker 2: Australia in nineteen sixteen. So whether you're pro or against

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Speaker 2: daylight saving remains one of the nation's longest running seasonal debates,

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Speaker 2: with the NT, Queensland and WA flat out refusing to

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Speaker 2: adopt it, farmers saying it throws out natural rhythms for

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Speaker 2: livestock and rural routines, complicated time zones, and the very

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Speaker 2: real dread for parents and families getting up in the

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Speaker 2: dark with grizzly, grumpy kids in tow. So, now, with

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Speaker 2: these big health concerns thrown into the mix, we have

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Speaker 2: to wonder whether the extra evening sunshine is worth the

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Speaker 2: side effects. And perhaps instead of probing our mates in

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Speaker 2: the NT Queensland and wa why they don't have daylight saving,

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Speaker 2: we need to focus on why the southern state it's due.

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Speaker 2: A sleep expert from Flinders University in Adelaide, Reese Camp,

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Speaker 2: joins us now to shed some light on this issue. Reese,

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Speaker 2: we've all lost enough sleep over this is daylight saving

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Speaker 2: really that bad for our health?

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Speaker 5: Well, look certainly at the transition which we've just been through. Yes,

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Speaker 5: we have noted several negative health effects as a result

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Speaker 5: of that change of the hour. It all stems from

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Speaker 5: our bodies being in a very knife edge balance with

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Speaker 5: the outside world, and so any external changes to that,

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Speaker 5: such as daylight savings time can have wide effects on

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Speaker 5: our sleep, on our general health even.

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Speaker 4: Something as dangerous as car accidents as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so can you take us through why it is

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Speaker 2: so bad for us? Like, how is this one hour

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Speaker 2: so impactful?

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Speaker 5: It doesn't sound like a lot, does it, Alaria, But

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Speaker 5: certainly in terms of Cicadian health, that's a big amount

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Speaker 5: of time in our body clock system. For example, if

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Speaker 5: we're sleeping before the transition onto daylight saving time at

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Speaker 5: around eleven PM and getting up at seven, all of

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Speaker 5: a sudden with that clock change, So when the clocks

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Speaker 5: move forward one hour, all of a sudden, our natural

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Speaker 5: body clock will want to be sleeping between twelve am

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Speaker 5: and eight am. The problem that comes in, though, is

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Speaker 5: that the social world doesn't tick forward an hour later.

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Speaker 5: School still starts at eight forty five, work still starts

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Speaker 5: at nine am, and so compounding on the whole, we

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Speaker 5: might lose approximately an hour of sleep that we should

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Speaker 5: be getting and so over the work week because dalya

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Speaker 5: saving time happens on that Sunday morning. Throughout that work week,

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Speaker 5: we might be losing an hour of sleep for those

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Speaker 5: five days and feel completely naked by the weekend.

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Speaker 4: The problem then that becomes therefore, is.

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Speaker 5: That if we have a big sleep in on the weekend,

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Speaker 5: come that Sunday night, again we're not going to be

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Speaker 5: feeling tight, and we might repeat the same process. And

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Speaker 5: so it's that disruptive effect to our cicadian health that

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Speaker 5: can lead into all of these really detrimental impacts to

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Speaker 5: our health.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so it seems like the poor sleep is just

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Speaker 2: to start and then there can be some knock on effects.

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Speaker 2: Do you take us through these major health consequences in

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Speaker 2: a bit more detail.

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Speaker 5: Yes, So, once our sleep is disturbed as a result

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Speaker 5: of say the daylight saving time transition, this has a

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Speaker 5: lot more downstream effects on the rest of our health.

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Speaker 5: For example, we know that with the poor sleep rhythm

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Speaker 5: and the poor circadian rhythm, that becomes problematic with the heart.

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Speaker 4: So our heart rate also works.

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Speaker 5: On a circadian rhythm, and so you know, during the

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Speaker 5: day our heart rate picks up and throughout the night

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Speaker 5: our heart rate slows down. So upon daylight saving time transition,

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Speaker 5: if that gets disrupted or what we call desynchronized, this

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Speaker 5: can actually lead to an increased on stroke and heart attack,

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Speaker 5: which is pretty serious. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So on top of that, there's also been links to

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Speaker 2: fatal traffic accidents. Can you take us through this.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, if we go into the idea of what daylight

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Speaker 5: saving time is doing at the transition, and it's essentially

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Speaker 5: we might be waking up feeling incredibly groggy in the morning.

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Speaker 5: We're getting less morning sunlight as we've forwarded the clock,

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Speaker 5: so sunrise occurs practically an hour later than it usually would.

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Speaker 5: And so in that morning time, if we're losing sleep already,

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Speaker 5: compounding with the fact that some of us need to

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Speaker 5: get behind the wheel to drive in that morning time,

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Speaker 5: you know, that morning peak hour, we.

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Speaker 4: Actually see an increase in traffic accidents.

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Speaker 2: So let's chat about this US study. It's the most

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Speaker 2: evidence based investigation of long term health impacts across different

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Speaker 2: time scenarios. Why is this so significant.

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Speaker 5: To be able to do something at such a big scale,

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Speaker 5: such as the United States being such a massive country.

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Speaker 4: The evidence we're able to.

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Speaker 5: Get from that is really rich and can basically give

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Speaker 5: us a lot of insight and directions to go for

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Speaker 5: even more complex studies. For example, this Stanford study has

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Speaker 5: used light modeling. The next step in this is to

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Speaker 5: actually go out and measure people's sleep directly, and so

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Speaker 5: that's pointing to that next phase of the research that

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Speaker 5: becomes a much more complex and much more detailed. So

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Speaker 5: it's groundbreaking in terms of basically it's opened the Pandora's box,

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Speaker 5: I think essentially in terms of the light saving time

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Speaker 5: narrative and given a lot of proof into the matter

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Speaker 5: of what health effects are actually.

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Speaker 2: Going on and around their office today, lots of moms

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Speaker 2: are just saying, this is such a challenging time of

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Speaker 2: year with kids. Why is this so tough on children?

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Speaker 5: Oh, it's completely understood that children and young kids and adolescents,

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Speaker 5: they absolutely get the brunt of it when it comes

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Speaker 5: to poor sleep. I recently just did a talk out

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Speaker 5: of high school talking to some adolescents and you know,

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Speaker 5: trying to tell them that for their age demographic, they

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Speaker 5: need about nine hours of sleep per night to be

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Speaker 5: sleeping optimally. Pretty sure, every parent and every mom in

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Speaker 5: your office and out there will say that trying to

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Speaker 5: get your kids to achieve nine hours per night's pretty

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Speaker 5: pretty ambitious. So we actually know that adolescents get the

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Speaker 5: lowest amount of sleep relative to their sleep need. So

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Speaker 5: when something like daylight saving times comes along and potentially

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Speaker 5: constricts that even further, it's no wonder that some kids

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Speaker 5: are really experiencing the brunt of it.

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Speaker 2: So, from your study in this space, do we need

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Speaker 2: to ditch daylight sun for good and just leave the

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Speaker 2: clocks alone.

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Speaker 5: It's hard to say. I don't think it's going anywhere

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Speaker 5: anytime soon. But look the literature that's coming out, we're

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Speaker 5: basically being able to define that narrative much more, and

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Speaker 5: so at the end of the day, it doesn't matter

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Speaker 5: what our personal attachment is to it. If the research

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Speaker 5: says that it's detrimental, there will be a big push

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Speaker 5: to remove it. And you could probably say that there

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Speaker 5: already is.

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Speaker 2: So in the time being, considering as you just stated,

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Speaker 2: you know, we are seeing that there's some detrimental research

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Speaker 2: coming out about it. What can we do to help

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Speaker 2: our salves stay as healthy as possible during the shift?

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Speaker 4: Well, look, this week, try to maintain your work sleep routine.

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Speaker 4: Clients who have.

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Speaker 5: Come into the practice and they're saying, oh, you know,

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Speaker 5: daylight saving time has rocked me around.

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Speaker 4: The easiest thing for them to do is to sleep

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Speaker 4: how they.

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Speaker 5: Were sleeping before the transition, So whatever times that was,

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Speaker 5: sleep to that. Because we know that because the clocks

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Speaker 5: go forward, it's easy for people to think, oh, I have.

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Speaker 4: An extra hour of sleep. Oh, I can sleep in now,

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Speaker 4: I have an hour of now.

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Speaker 5: If if you can hold that and actually try to

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Speaker 5: keep your sleep routine, which is technically an hour earlier.

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Speaker 5: So if we can be kind of maintaining that same

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Speaker 5: sleep rhythm, that should eliminate any of these effects.

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Speaker 4: Obviously, you have your sleep hygiene effects.

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Speaker 5: As well, so you know, getting out in the morning sun,

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Speaker 5: having a breakfast, having a lunch, having a dinner, setting

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Speaker 5: up those meals, some interesting ones on this weekend for

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Speaker 5: your kids and for yourself. Get up as if it

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Speaker 5: was a school morning, as if it was a work morning.

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Speaker 5: What this can essentially do is time our body clock

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Speaker 5: earlier so that come to Sunday night we'll be feeling tired.

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Speaker 5: And if any of us were experiencing any detrimental effects

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Speaker 5: of that first week, if we can just kick start

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Speaker 5: your circadian rhythm again and time it just slightly earlier,

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Speaker 5: hopefully by that next week we shouldn't be seeing any

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Speaker 5: negative effects.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for taking some time to feed your mind

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Speaker 2: with us today. The quickie is produced by me Alaria

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Speaker 2: Brophy and audio production by Teag and Saddler