1 00:00:11,104 --> 00:00:11,424 Speaker 1: So much. 2 00:00:11,424 --> 00:00:14,144 Speaker 2: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 3 00:00:14,784 --> 00:00:18,664 Speaker 1: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders 4 00:00:18,704 --> 00:00:25,944 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on From Mamma Mia. 5 00:00:26,224 --> 00:00:29,864 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Spill, your daily pop culture fix. I'm 6 00:00:29,984 --> 00:00:33,504 Speaker 2: m Burnham and I'm Laura Brodnick, and today we have 7 00:00:33,744 --> 00:00:36,744 Speaker 2: a very special episode. It's one of our brutally honest 8 00:00:36,824 --> 00:00:39,864 Speaker 2: review episodes, one of my favorite of all time. 9 00:00:40,344 --> 00:00:42,464 Speaker 1: So if you're not aware what a brutally honest review is, 10 00:00:42,544 --> 00:00:45,904 Speaker 1: it is where we talk about the biggest TV show 11 00:00:46,024 --> 00:00:48,464 Speaker 1: or movie of the moment, something that we know everyone 12 00:00:48,544 --> 00:00:51,504 Speaker 1: is watching, but also something that has captured the conversation 13 00:00:51,704 --> 00:00:54,904 Speaker 1: across the world. And Apple Cider Vinegar has very much 14 00:00:54,984 --> 00:00:57,304 Speaker 1: done that. Just a little warning that we are going 15 00:00:57,344 --> 00:01:00,544 Speaker 1: to be talking through all six episodes. We're going to 16 00:01:00,544 --> 00:01:03,064 Speaker 1: be talking about things that happened behind the scenes, the 17 00:01:03,144 --> 00:01:06,424 Speaker 1: true stories that inspired the biggest moments, why the ending 18 00:01:06,424 --> 00:01:08,904 Speaker 1: should happen. So if you don't want spoilers, go and 19 00:01:08,944 --> 00:01:11,344 Speaker 1: finish watching it and come back and listen. But I 20 00:01:11,424 --> 00:01:13,384 Speaker 1: think from what we've been seeing from our audience, every 21 00:01:13,384 --> 00:01:16,224 Speaker 1: single person has already devoured this series, so we should 22 00:01:16,224 --> 00:01:16,504 Speaker 1: be good. 23 00:01:16,584 --> 00:01:19,144 Speaker 2: I mean, it's our national right, it's like the story, 24 00:01:19,464 --> 00:01:20,744 Speaker 2: it's the story of the nation. 25 00:01:20,984 --> 00:01:23,864 Speaker 1: Well, it debuted at number five worldwide in Netflix, but 26 00:01:24,064 --> 00:01:26,904 Speaker 1: number one in Australia, so we were primed and ready. 27 00:01:27,304 --> 00:01:31,024 Speaker 1: So Apple Side of Viningar obviously the story of Belle Gibson, 28 00:01:31,224 --> 00:01:33,784 Speaker 1: the controverversial wellness in NASA. 29 00:01:33,744 --> 00:01:36,864 Speaker 2: Mel Gibson. Because every single person I recommended this show 30 00:01:36,864 --> 00:01:39,424 Speaker 2: too has been like, oh, I didn't know that he 31 00:01:39,584 --> 00:01:41,144 Speaker 2: had like a show about him. 32 00:01:41,184 --> 00:01:42,024 Speaker 1: Wait, who said that? 33 00:01:42,344 --> 00:01:45,424 Speaker 2: Every single person I've been recommending this show too before 34 00:01:45,464 --> 00:01:47,344 Speaker 2: they knew what the show was about. I was like, 35 00:01:47,344 --> 00:01:49,024 Speaker 2: have you watch Apple Side vinan that I've watched about? 36 00:01:49,024 --> 00:01:51,104 Speaker 2: And I'm like, it's about Bell Gibson And they're like 37 00:01:51,184 --> 00:01:52,864 Speaker 2: they think they hear mel Gibson. 38 00:01:53,064 --> 00:01:54,144 Speaker 1: Okay, well that's interesting. 39 00:01:54,424 --> 00:01:57,064 Speaker 2: So it's not about mel Gibson the actor, it's about 40 00:01:57,224 --> 00:01:58,904 Speaker 2: Bell Gibson the liar. 41 00:01:59,424 --> 00:02:03,024 Speaker 1: Yes. So the Netflix series is inspired by the book 42 00:02:03,064 --> 00:02:05,304 Speaker 1: The Woman Who Fooled the World, which was written by 43 00:02:05,344 --> 00:02:08,464 Speaker 1: journalists bo Don Lee and Nick Toscano. Obviously there are 44 00:02:08,504 --> 00:02:10,704 Speaker 1: fictionalized versions of them in the show. They had the 45 00:02:10,744 --> 00:02:15,064 Speaker 1: two journalists that originally broke the whole story around Belle 46 00:02:15,104 --> 00:02:18,544 Speaker 1: Gibson lying about being diagnosed with cancer, and they did 47 00:02:18,584 --> 00:02:21,064 Speaker 1: that by exposing the fact that she had lied about 48 00:02:21,104 --> 00:02:24,544 Speaker 1: where she was distributing the charity funds, which was nowhere, 49 00:02:24,624 --> 00:02:27,544 Speaker 1: it turns out, to herself. So the first reporting they 50 00:02:27,544 --> 00:02:29,984 Speaker 1: did was in twenty fifteen, and then they published a 51 00:02:29,984 --> 00:02:33,304 Speaker 1: book that had all their research in it two years later. 52 00:02:33,584 --> 00:02:35,904 Speaker 1: But it was also a bigger look at the wellness 53 00:02:35,904 --> 00:02:39,264 Speaker 1: industry and how Belle had used people's interest in the 54 00:02:39,264 --> 00:02:41,864 Speaker 1: wellness industry and how there were no regulations around it 55 00:02:42,264 --> 00:02:45,344 Speaker 1: to trick people. And the creators of the Netflix show 56 00:02:45,424 --> 00:02:48,064 Speaker 1: optioned the book, and then Netflix screenlit the series in 57 00:02:48,104 --> 00:02:50,864 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, So now it's finally on our screens. 58 00:02:51,224 --> 00:02:53,784 Speaker 2: When I first heard of Belle Gibson, like, I didn't 59 00:02:53,824 --> 00:02:56,584 Speaker 2: realize how big a deal this was until I watched 60 00:02:56,624 --> 00:02:58,344 Speaker 2: the sixty minutes interview. 61 00:02:58,424 --> 00:03:01,584 Speaker 1: Did you watch it live when it happened? You mean, yeah, yeah, I. 62 00:03:01,584 --> 00:03:03,144 Speaker 2: Watched it live because it was, like, I feel like, 63 00:03:03,144 --> 00:03:06,984 Speaker 2: the most hyped up interview ever and it went so viral, 64 00:03:07,024 --> 00:03:10,024 Speaker 2: and I just remember so specifically her in her like 65 00:03:10,544 --> 00:03:15,264 Speaker 2: turtleneck pink sweater and just looking so she looked just 66 00:03:15,304 --> 00:03:18,984 Speaker 2: like very angry but also confused, and she just never 67 00:03:19,304 --> 00:03:21,544 Speaker 2: like straight away from her words. She never said that 68 00:03:21,584 --> 00:03:24,144 Speaker 2: she was lying. She just thought that she honestly had cancer. 69 00:03:24,464 --> 00:03:27,544 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so interesting. I definitely remember that interview going viral, 70 00:03:27,584 --> 00:03:29,704 Speaker 1: and I think that's why that out of all the 71 00:03:29,824 --> 00:03:32,704 Speaker 1: stories around Belle Gibson, when you see that sixty minutes 72 00:03:32,744 --> 00:03:35,624 Speaker 1: interview in the show, that's the one piece they've created 73 00:03:35,624 --> 00:03:37,824 Speaker 1: word for word, obviously because they have the audio and 74 00:03:37,904 --> 00:03:40,864 Speaker 1: there's no disputing what happened in the audio, but because 75 00:03:41,224 --> 00:03:43,864 Speaker 1: that's become her calling card across the world of people 76 00:03:43,984 --> 00:03:46,504 Speaker 1: know that story. It's interesting. I kind of knew about 77 00:03:46,544 --> 00:03:48,544 Speaker 1: Belle Gibson before it broke, not that I've ever been 78 00:03:48,584 --> 00:03:50,864 Speaker 1: part of wellderness culture or anything like that, but she 79 00:03:51,064 --> 00:03:52,984 Speaker 1: was just being so hyped up by so many of 80 00:03:52,984 --> 00:03:55,144 Speaker 1: the publications I followed at the time, and you've seen 81 00:03:55,144 --> 00:03:57,944 Speaker 1: the series her going to like the Fun Fearless Awards 82 00:03:57,944 --> 00:03:59,904 Speaker 1: and all those kind of things, and like, I just 83 00:03:59,904 --> 00:04:02,784 Speaker 1: remember her being in magazines they opened and being on TV. 84 00:04:02,984 --> 00:04:04,904 Speaker 2: Really Yeah, yeah, she was a big differ. 85 00:04:05,024 --> 00:04:07,824 Speaker 1: There's so many clips circulating now. I was watching one 86 00:04:07,864 --> 00:04:09,984 Speaker 1: with Sam Armitage the other day. Again, not that she 87 00:04:09,984 --> 00:04:11,744 Speaker 1: would have known anything, Like you just take it at 88 00:04:11,784 --> 00:04:15,104 Speaker 1: face value. And she's doing the morning show circuit Bell Gibson, 89 00:04:15,144 --> 00:04:17,584 Speaker 1: and she's just talking about her life in such a 90 00:04:17,664 --> 00:04:20,264 Speaker 1: natural way. And like she's talking about her app, which 91 00:04:20,264 --> 00:04:23,264 Speaker 1: has been translated into like five different languages, and it's 92 00:04:23,304 --> 00:04:25,864 Speaker 1: just selling everywhere, and her book is on every newsstand, 93 00:04:26,144 --> 00:04:28,184 Speaker 1: you can buy it a kmart, and like everyone's just 94 00:04:28,264 --> 00:04:30,864 Speaker 1: fawning over her, And why wouldn't you because she seems 95 00:04:31,184 --> 00:04:33,784 Speaker 1: so natural, Like I mean again, the book publishers probably 96 00:04:33,824 --> 00:04:36,104 Speaker 1: should have checked and the app developers should have checked 97 00:04:36,104 --> 00:04:37,944 Speaker 1: about it. You wouldn't expect the morning show hosts to 98 00:04:38,024 --> 00:04:40,944 Speaker 1: check anyway. Getting past the story of Bell Gibson because 99 00:04:40,944 --> 00:04:42,784 Speaker 1: that could be a whole other podcast. Actually, we do 100 00:04:42,864 --> 00:04:45,904 Speaker 1: have a whole other podcast or extraordinary stories all about 101 00:04:45,944 --> 00:04:49,184 Speaker 1: Bell Gibson and her life and her fall from grace, 102 00:04:49,224 --> 00:04:51,304 Speaker 1: which will link in the show notes. But let's get 103 00:04:51,304 --> 00:04:53,344 Speaker 1: into the casting, because I think the casting of Bell 104 00:04:53,424 --> 00:04:56,384 Speaker 1: Gibson was always going to be such a make or break, 105 00:04:56,704 --> 00:05:00,144 Speaker 1: and I think people were initially a little skeptical. The 106 00:05:00,144 --> 00:05:02,544 Speaker 1: people who knew they were watching Bell Gibson's story, not 107 00:05:02,584 --> 00:05:05,704 Speaker 1: Mel Gibson's story. Those people were a bit skeptical over 108 00:05:06,184 --> 00:05:09,544 Speaker 1: American actress kateln Deva being cast as Bell. 109 00:05:09,624 --> 00:05:13,424 Speaker 2: Initially, Yeah, I was skeptical as well because she is American, 110 00:05:13,464 --> 00:05:15,944 Speaker 2: and I thought because most of the cast are Australian, 111 00:05:15,984 --> 00:05:18,424 Speaker 2: so I thought they would have the main person, Bell 112 00:05:18,584 --> 00:05:22,104 Speaker 2: be Australian. But she did it so well, Oh my god, 113 00:05:22,344 --> 00:05:24,784 Speaker 2: I was like one hundred percent believable. Even like her 114 00:05:24,864 --> 00:05:28,584 Speaker 2: mannerisms if you watch the comparison between the real sixty 115 00:05:28,624 --> 00:05:31,864 Speaker 2: Minutes interview and like the one that was fictionalized on TV, 116 00:05:32,424 --> 00:05:34,784 Speaker 2: her little like quirks and the way she raised her 117 00:05:34,864 --> 00:05:37,584 Speaker 2: eyebrows and even the way she like blinks sometimes is 118 00:05:37,664 --> 00:05:40,424 Speaker 2: exactly like Belle Gibson. I don't know how she did it, 119 00:05:40,464 --> 00:05:41,624 Speaker 2: but she absolutely nailed it. 120 00:05:41,704 --> 00:05:43,664 Speaker 1: Yeah, she did nail it. I think also having like 121 00:05:43,704 --> 00:05:45,744 Speaker 1: a big name but not so big enough a name, 122 00:05:45,784 --> 00:05:49,224 Speaker 1: that the casting of her overshadowed the series because I 123 00:05:49,224 --> 00:05:51,504 Speaker 1: think some people like we have obviously been long term 124 00:05:51,504 --> 00:05:55,344 Speaker 1: fans of Caitlin Deever because of book Smart and Unbelievable 125 00:05:55,424 --> 00:05:57,344 Speaker 1: and just like a lot of other different work that 126 00:05:57,424 --> 00:05:59,504 Speaker 1: she's done. But I think like a lot of people 127 00:05:59,704 --> 00:06:01,544 Speaker 1: might have been coming to her for the first time 128 00:06:01,624 --> 00:06:03,864 Speaker 1: in there, so she was kind of believable as Belle. 129 00:06:04,064 --> 00:06:07,104 Speaker 1: Interestingly enough that the two other actresses are both Australian 130 00:06:07,104 --> 00:06:10,664 Speaker 1: actresses but have found fame pretty much only playing until 131 00:06:10,704 --> 00:06:13,944 Speaker 1: recently American characters. I guess it's like if they can 132 00:06:13,984 --> 00:06:17,744 Speaker 1: do it. So Alisha Dennan Carrie plays Miller Blake. So 133 00:06:17,944 --> 00:06:19,904 Speaker 1: a lot of people would know Alisha from The Hundred, 134 00:06:19,984 --> 00:06:22,544 Speaker 1: one of the best shows ever, and Fear the Walking Dead, 135 00:06:22,704 --> 00:06:24,864 Speaker 1: but recent one of your favorite shows ever. No, no, no, 136 00:06:24,904 --> 00:06:26,784 Speaker 1: I'm a Walking Dead fan, not Fear the Walking Dead. 137 00:06:26,824 --> 00:06:29,864 Speaker 1: That's a different fandom. But she was on that show 138 00:06:29,904 --> 00:06:32,584 Speaker 1: for a very long time, and they're two big American franchises. 139 00:06:33,024 --> 00:06:35,144 Speaker 1: And then recently she was on The Lost Flowers of 140 00:06:35,144 --> 00:06:37,424 Speaker 1: Alice Hart, so she's doing a bit more Australian work. 141 00:06:37,704 --> 00:06:40,744 Speaker 1: And then Asha d very famously was an actress who 142 00:06:41,184 --> 00:06:43,224 Speaker 1: couldn't get a lot of work in Australia, and she's 143 00:06:43,264 --> 00:06:45,064 Speaker 1: talked about the fact that being a woman of color 144 00:06:45,224 --> 00:06:47,304 Speaker 1: initially shut her out of a lot of those kind 145 00:06:47,384 --> 00:06:50,264 Speaker 1: of soap operas or like kids shows. So she went 146 00:06:50,304 --> 00:06:53,624 Speaker 1: overseas and found huge fame on a great show. I 147 00:06:53,624 --> 00:06:56,064 Speaker 1: would say the bold type yes, as Cat and then 148 00:06:56,104 --> 00:06:58,304 Speaker 1: his returned to Australian has been starring and lots of 149 00:06:58,344 --> 00:06:59,144 Speaker 1: interesting things. 150 00:06:59,224 --> 00:07:02,104 Speaker 2: She's got a very interesting accent. It's like a hybrid 151 00:07:02,224 --> 00:07:04,744 Speaker 2: version of American Australian and she kind of kept it 152 00:07:04,784 --> 00:07:08,184 Speaker 2: throughout the movie, like she didn't go a hardcore Australian accent, 153 00:07:08,584 --> 00:07:10,584 Speaker 2: and I thought that was quite interesting. I want to 154 00:07:10,584 --> 00:07:11,224 Speaker 2: address that. 155 00:07:11,624 --> 00:07:13,904 Speaker 1: The four kind of main females I thought were all 156 00:07:14,064 --> 00:07:16,744 Speaker 1: incredibly cast. Five, I guess if you're really counting in 157 00:07:16,824 --> 00:07:19,984 Speaker 1: Susie Porter as Tamara Miller's mother. And I think Susie 158 00:07:20,024 --> 00:07:20,984 Speaker 1: Porter's always been. 159 00:07:20,864 --> 00:07:22,504 Speaker 2: Oh my god, she was so good. 160 00:07:22,544 --> 00:07:24,944 Speaker 1: I just she's one of those astrange actresses who's just 161 00:07:25,144 --> 00:07:28,624 Speaker 1: in everything but is not like an international name, but 162 00:07:29,064 --> 00:07:31,704 Speaker 1: has this huge body of work. And she was incredible. 163 00:07:31,984 --> 00:07:35,224 Speaker 1: And then Tilda crobhram Hervey as Lucy I thought was amazing. 164 00:07:35,384 --> 00:07:38,144 Speaker 1: She played Helen Ready in the movie about her life 165 00:07:38,264 --> 00:07:42,824 Speaker 1: And do you hate her because she's dev Pateel's partner, Yeah, yeah. 166 00:07:42,384 --> 00:07:44,944 Speaker 2: But because of her, like dev Ptel has been spending 167 00:07:44,944 --> 00:07:47,144 Speaker 2: a lot of time in Adelaide, live in Adelaide together. 168 00:07:47,344 --> 00:07:48,144 Speaker 1: That's either here nor there. 169 00:07:48,184 --> 00:07:50,224 Speaker 2: I wouldn't mind seeing bumping into him at like a 170 00:07:50,224 --> 00:07:51,344 Speaker 2: farmer's market or something. 171 00:07:51,384 --> 00:07:53,184 Speaker 1: Well, you might do. But he'll have Tilda with him 172 00:07:53,184 --> 00:07:53,864 Speaker 1: and she's lovely. 173 00:07:53,864 --> 00:07:54,984 Speaker 2: Thanks Tilda for bringing him. 174 00:07:57,904 --> 00:07:59,704 Speaker 1: I'd lied to welcome on the stage. 175 00:07:59,904 --> 00:08:04,944 Speaker 2: Shell Gibson. It must have affected her that my book 176 00:08:04,984 --> 00:08:08,584 Speaker 2: was refewed as better than hers. I'm sorry, cools her. 177 00:08:10,424 --> 00:08:14,944 Speaker 1: Miller, she was diagnosed with cancer, so she's consistently maintained. 178 00:08:14,984 --> 00:08:16,304 Speaker 1: I have no reason to doubt. 179 00:08:16,064 --> 00:08:18,504 Speaker 2: Her because in her case it's true. 180 00:08:18,864 --> 00:08:24,024 Speaker 1: It's funny my doctor said, have brain cancer. He's a 181 00:08:24,024 --> 00:08:28,704 Speaker 1: bloggie my life. She's just like you. We do look 182 00:08:28,784 --> 00:08:30,944 Speaker 1: incredibly well. I've never felt better. 183 00:08:32,304 --> 00:08:34,264 Speaker 2: I have to find the right way for me. 184 00:08:35,584 --> 00:08:39,624 Speaker 1: I just got each other. I loved the session for 185 00:08:39,664 --> 00:08:45,064 Speaker 1: all body goose bumps. Thanks for coming Bell, Bell Gibson 186 00:08:46,264 --> 00:08:52,184 Speaker 1: the brain cancer great. So we should probably talk about 187 00:08:52,184 --> 00:08:54,664 Speaker 1: the character of Miller Blake, who's also really set up 188 00:08:54,704 --> 00:08:58,264 Speaker 1: to be the lead alongside Bell Gibson. The creators of 189 00:08:58,304 --> 00:09:00,424 Speaker 1: the show have said that this was never meant to 190 00:09:00,464 --> 00:09:02,904 Speaker 1: be like the rise and fall of Bell Gibson. She 191 00:09:02,984 --> 00:09:04,464 Speaker 1: was only meant to be one part of it, and 192 00:09:04,504 --> 00:09:06,824 Speaker 1: that's why it's called Apple side of Vinegar. It's not 193 00:09:06,904 --> 00:09:09,624 Speaker 1: named after her because they wanted to show it as 194 00:09:09,664 --> 00:09:12,704 Speaker 1: like how well this influences used Instagram at the time, 195 00:09:13,024 --> 00:09:15,704 Speaker 1: but obviously because she is the big name, we really 196 00:09:15,744 --> 00:09:18,104 Speaker 1: have like hooked onto that. What did you think about 197 00:09:18,144 --> 00:09:20,624 Speaker 1: the disclaimers at the beginning of each episode where they 198 00:09:20,704 --> 00:09:22,664 Speaker 1: break the fourth wall, So like the first time we 199 00:09:22,704 --> 00:09:25,064 Speaker 1: see Kitlyn Diva do it where she looks to the 200 00:09:25,104 --> 00:09:27,184 Speaker 1: camera and said, some names have been changed to protect 201 00:09:27,224 --> 00:09:29,624 Speaker 1: the innocent. Belle Gibson has not been paid for the 202 00:09:29,624 --> 00:09:30,704 Speaker 1: recreation of her story. 203 00:09:30,824 --> 00:09:33,624 Speaker 2: Is there a reason why, like they do it for 204 00:09:33,704 --> 00:09:36,264 Speaker 2: every single episode, Like, is there like some contract or 205 00:09:36,344 --> 00:09:38,864 Speaker 2: legalities behind that? Because I was like I liked it 206 00:09:38,904 --> 00:09:41,184 Speaker 2: for the first episode, especially because it was Caitlyn Diva 207 00:09:41,224 --> 00:09:44,624 Speaker 2: and she's still being bell where she says Belle Gibson 208 00:09:44,664 --> 00:09:46,224 Speaker 2: was not compensated for that, and she's like, of course 209 00:09:46,264 --> 00:09:47,744 Speaker 2: she was fucking wasn't like that? 210 00:09:47,864 --> 00:09:48,944 Speaker 1: Fuck yeah, fuckers. 211 00:09:49,384 --> 00:09:51,184 Speaker 2: But after like the first one, I was like, I 212 00:09:51,224 --> 00:09:52,144 Speaker 2: don't need to hear this again. 213 00:09:52,304 --> 00:09:54,664 Speaker 1: No, there's a reason they actually, there's two reasons why 214 00:09:54,704 --> 00:09:57,344 Speaker 1: they did it for every single episode. One is that 215 00:09:57,504 --> 00:09:59,984 Speaker 1: the creator and writer of Apple Side of Vinegar, Samountha 216 00:09:59,984 --> 00:10:02,904 Speaker 1: Strauss thought it was just really important to include from 217 00:10:02,904 --> 00:10:05,904 Speaker 1: a moral standpoint. So she said she'd optioned the book 218 00:10:05,944 --> 00:10:07,704 Speaker 1: and she was going into production and she was writing 219 00:10:07,704 --> 00:10:10,104 Speaker 1: a script, and she was talking to a friend who's 220 00:10:10,104 --> 00:10:13,144 Speaker 1: past and has brain cancer, and she said they were 221 00:10:13,224 --> 00:10:17,184 Speaker 1: absolutely horrified, Like Samantha's friends said, horrified that she was 222 00:10:17,224 --> 00:10:19,624 Speaker 1: doing this show. And they said, why would you give 223 00:10:19,624 --> 00:10:21,784 Speaker 1: this woman more oxygen? Don't you know what she's done, 224 00:10:21,824 --> 00:10:24,384 Speaker 1: don't you know what she's still doing? And is she 225 00:10:24,464 --> 00:10:26,704 Speaker 1: being paid from it? And that was the question that 226 00:10:26,704 --> 00:10:29,504 Speaker 1: Samantha found every time she talked to people about the show, 227 00:10:30,024 --> 00:10:32,224 Speaker 1: is that they all just assumed that Belle Gibson was 228 00:10:32,264 --> 00:10:34,744 Speaker 1: in some way involved or assumed that she had to 229 00:10:34,744 --> 00:10:36,264 Speaker 1: be paid for it in some way. And for so 230 00:10:36,344 --> 00:10:39,624 Speaker 1: many people, especially people who had donated to her causes 231 00:10:39,664 --> 00:10:41,024 Speaker 1: as we see in the show, and then like the 232 00:10:41,024 --> 00:10:43,584 Speaker 1: money never went to those people, people who had bought 233 00:10:43,624 --> 00:10:46,104 Speaker 1: her books and apps and you know, lost money and 234 00:10:46,224 --> 00:10:47,984 Speaker 1: they could have been spending on other things, or people 235 00:10:47,984 --> 00:10:50,104 Speaker 1: who followed her for years and felt tricked. 236 00:10:49,904 --> 00:10:52,344 Speaker 2: Or people who could have just died from like following 237 00:10:52,424 --> 00:10:53,384 Speaker 2: like her advice. 238 00:10:53,104 --> 00:10:55,224 Speaker 1: By her saying I kid my cancer and using this happy, 239 00:10:55,224 --> 00:10:57,304 Speaker 1: beautiful woman and you're like, yeah, I could have that. 240 00:10:57,784 --> 00:11:00,064 Speaker 1: So people were really upset that they thought she was 241 00:11:00,104 --> 00:11:02,224 Speaker 1: profiting off the Netflix show. So they thought they had 242 00:11:02,264 --> 00:11:06,304 Speaker 1: to really hammer home in every single episode that she 243 00:11:06,584 --> 00:11:09,584 Speaker 1: wasn't just so people knew that wasn't happening. But also 244 00:11:09,664 --> 00:11:12,544 Speaker 1: the other big thing was the defamation part of it. 245 00:11:12,984 --> 00:11:15,184 Speaker 1: Obviously it would be kind of hard to defame. 246 00:11:16,224 --> 00:11:18,664 Speaker 2: So it's really confusing to me because like they name her, 247 00:11:18,824 --> 00:11:21,024 Speaker 2: they go through a lot of things like in detail 248 00:11:21,224 --> 00:11:25,224 Speaker 2: of everything that Bell Gibson has done, and I wonder, 249 00:11:25,304 --> 00:11:27,384 Speaker 2: like how do they get away with doing that? Like 250 00:11:27,424 --> 00:11:29,664 Speaker 2: how could they make themselves fit safe? 251 00:11:30,104 --> 00:11:33,104 Speaker 1: Well, one thing with defamation is that the person who's 252 00:11:33,144 --> 00:11:37,544 Speaker 1: claiming to have been defamed has to prove that a 253 00:11:37,584 --> 00:11:40,384 Speaker 1: publication is lying about them in a way that has 254 00:11:40,464 --> 00:11:44,424 Speaker 1: taken away their reputation. Obviously there's a lot more legal lays. 255 00:11:44,544 --> 00:11:46,184 Speaker 1: This is just a very top one explanation. 256 00:11:46,424 --> 00:11:48,064 Speaker 2: Do they get away with it because she doesn't have 257 00:11:48,104 --> 00:11:48,824 Speaker 2: a reputation? 258 00:11:49,064 --> 00:11:51,784 Speaker 1: No, No, she can't prove she has cancer, and she 259 00:11:51,864 --> 00:11:54,664 Speaker 1: can't prove that she gave the money to charity, and 260 00:11:54,744 --> 00:11:57,344 Speaker 1: she can't all those things. She can't prove The other 261 00:11:57,384 --> 00:11:59,984 Speaker 1: thing though, is that they keep saying this is a 262 00:12:00,024 --> 00:12:03,704 Speaker 1: true ish story based on a lie. And what we've 263 00:12:03,704 --> 00:12:06,464 Speaker 1: seen recently with a few shows, like namely Baby Reindeer, 264 00:12:06,984 --> 00:12:09,784 Speaker 1: is that they say this is based on a true story, 265 00:12:09,864 --> 00:12:13,024 Speaker 1: which is the woman who Baby Reindeer is about has 266 00:12:13,104 --> 00:12:15,064 Speaker 1: now been given the green light to go ahead with 267 00:12:15,104 --> 00:12:18,424 Speaker 1: one hundred and seventy million dollar defamation suit against Netflix 268 00:12:18,744 --> 00:12:20,944 Speaker 1: because they said this is a true story rather than 269 00:12:20,944 --> 00:12:23,944 Speaker 1: saying this is based on a true story. So every 270 00:12:24,024 --> 00:12:26,944 Speaker 1: time the characters in the Netflix show say this is 271 00:12:26,984 --> 00:12:30,104 Speaker 1: a true ish story based on a lie, names have 272 00:12:30,184 --> 00:12:34,224 Speaker 1: been changed. They're immediately deflecting a lot of the defamation 273 00:12:34,304 --> 00:12:37,064 Speaker 1: because they're not claiming it's real like and also a 274 00:12:37,064 --> 00:12:38,824 Speaker 1: lot of people like, we're gonna go through the characters 275 00:12:38,864 --> 00:12:41,424 Speaker 1: now and say who's real and who's not. The creators 276 00:12:41,464 --> 00:12:43,744 Speaker 1: of the show haven't actually come out except for saying 277 00:12:43,744 --> 00:12:46,304 Speaker 1: that Belle Gibson is based on Bell Gibson. They haven't 278 00:12:46,304 --> 00:12:48,144 Speaker 1: actually come out and said a lot of these people 279 00:12:48,224 --> 00:12:50,624 Speaker 1: are based on the people who we have just been 280 00:12:50,624 --> 00:12:52,904 Speaker 1: able to piece that together because of defamation. 281 00:12:53,424 --> 00:12:57,864 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was one character, Miller Blake in particular, who 282 00:12:58,344 --> 00:13:02,424 Speaker 2: I remember we wrote about an influencer years ago named 283 00:13:02,664 --> 00:13:06,824 Speaker 2: Jess Aimskow, and I was like, this is exactly the 284 00:13:06,864 --> 00:13:11,064 Speaker 2: same person, Like, it's exactly Jess, and I confused me 285 00:13:11,184 --> 00:13:14,824 Speaker 2: because Jess was, like, I guess Belle's competitor in this 286 00:13:15,064 --> 00:13:19,784 Speaker 2: like wellness space of curing cancer through natural remedies rather 287 00:13:19,784 --> 00:13:23,144 Speaker 2: than like the clinical side of things. And she tragically 288 00:13:23,184 --> 00:13:25,504 Speaker 2: passed away from her cancer. And she had the same 289 00:13:25,784 --> 00:13:28,184 Speaker 2: like Miller in the show had the exact same type 290 00:13:28,224 --> 00:13:31,424 Speaker 2: of cancer as jes did. Jess's mother passed away from 291 00:13:31,744 --> 00:13:36,624 Speaker 2: going through Jess's like alternative medicine roots, and then Miller's 292 00:13:36,664 --> 00:13:39,784 Speaker 2: mom passed away. So I was like, this is spot on, 293 00:13:39,944 --> 00:13:42,064 Speaker 2: but why would they change the name? 294 00:13:42,704 --> 00:13:45,424 Speaker 1: Well, that's the interesting thing with Jessica aames Co is 295 00:13:45,464 --> 00:13:47,984 Speaker 1: that the show has said that she's just one of 296 00:13:48,024 --> 00:13:51,304 Speaker 1: the influences that the character of Miller Blake is based on. 297 00:13:51,544 --> 00:13:53,384 Speaker 1: But when you look like you're saying, when you look 298 00:13:53,424 --> 00:13:55,424 Speaker 1: at the comparison, like, no, it was her, it seems 299 00:13:55,464 --> 00:13:58,024 Speaker 1: almost pretty much based on her. So in the show 300 00:13:58,064 --> 00:14:00,344 Speaker 1: we see her working in the girlfriend office, but in 301 00:14:00,384 --> 00:14:03,064 Speaker 1: real life she did work at Dolly when being diagnosed 302 00:14:03,104 --> 00:14:05,464 Speaker 1: with a very rare cancer that does start in the arm. 303 00:14:05,584 --> 00:14:08,784 Speaker 1: She said yes to chemotherapy originally as Miller does on 304 00:14:08,824 --> 00:14:12,224 Speaker 1: the show, and then they have renamed the type of 305 00:14:12,504 --> 00:14:15,424 Speaker 1: alternative health medicine in the show from what she went 306 00:14:15,464 --> 00:14:17,584 Speaker 1: through in real life. But it was basically almost exactly 307 00:14:17,584 --> 00:14:21,104 Speaker 1: the same thing, the idea of like no toxins, no alcohol, 308 00:14:21,224 --> 00:14:24,704 Speaker 1: no sugar, coffee, enemas. And that was how Jess ains 309 00:14:24,704 --> 00:14:27,664 Speaker 1: Coe became very famous, Like she was almost became an 310 00:14:27,704 --> 00:14:32,104 Speaker 1: influencer before influencers were really a thing, because she was 311 00:14:32,104 --> 00:14:34,384 Speaker 1: there at the birth of Instagram, but also she started 312 00:14:34,384 --> 00:14:37,184 Speaker 1: before Instagram, like she moved her blog is where she 313 00:14:37,224 --> 00:14:39,464 Speaker 1: gained so much traction, and then she was able to 314 00:14:39,504 --> 00:14:43,304 Speaker 1: parlay that fame as Belle did, into books, into speaking 315 00:14:43,344 --> 00:14:46,944 Speaker 1: to us, into winning awards. Alicia dem Nakara, who plays her, 316 00:14:47,024 --> 00:14:50,144 Speaker 1: said that she's meant to be an amalgamation of different influences, 317 00:14:50,424 --> 00:14:51,744 Speaker 1: which we can obviously see. 318 00:14:51,584 --> 00:14:53,624 Speaker 2: That ninety percent of one particular influence. 319 00:14:53,744 --> 00:14:56,024 Speaker 1: That it's hard because a lot of Jess's blogs that 320 00:14:56,104 --> 00:14:58,304 Speaker 1: she wrote at the time have been marked a private 321 00:14:58,304 --> 00:15:00,024 Speaker 1: and the videos that she made, but a lot of 322 00:15:00,024 --> 00:15:01,744 Speaker 1: the work that she did is still around, so you 323 00:15:01,744 --> 00:15:04,104 Speaker 1: can go and read it, and the way she talks 324 00:15:04,104 --> 00:15:06,984 Speaker 1: and her turn of phrase and everything is very similar 325 00:15:06,984 --> 00:15:09,584 Speaker 1: to the character. So they've really embedded that and as 326 00:15:09,584 --> 00:15:12,144 Speaker 1: you're saying the same with her like personal life, like 327 00:15:12,224 --> 00:15:15,744 Speaker 1: she was very much in love and married her husband Talan, right, 328 00:15:15,824 --> 00:15:18,984 Speaker 1: you know, before she passed away, and her mother who 329 00:15:19,024 --> 00:15:21,504 Speaker 1: she was very close with, after she was diagnosed with 330 00:15:21,544 --> 00:15:25,024 Speaker 1: breast cancer, followed her daughter's health exvice and that's why 331 00:15:25,064 --> 00:15:28,104 Speaker 1: she died. And one of Jessica's last blog posts, which 332 00:15:28,144 --> 00:15:30,984 Speaker 1: is horrific, as talking about how her body had just 333 00:15:31,024 --> 00:15:32,944 Speaker 1: deteriorated and saying that she didn't know how to live 334 00:15:32,944 --> 00:15:35,264 Speaker 1: in a world without her mother, which is kind of 335 00:15:35,304 --> 00:15:37,984 Speaker 1: like a you know, a story that we see mirrored 336 00:15:38,024 --> 00:15:38,544 Speaker 1: in the show. 337 00:15:39,144 --> 00:15:41,064 Speaker 2: But they also make her quite unlikable. 338 00:15:41,304 --> 00:15:41,904 Speaker 1: Did you think so? 339 00:15:42,184 --> 00:15:45,984 Speaker 2: Yes? I hated her character, did you yeah? Interestingly I 340 00:15:46,064 --> 00:15:47,344 Speaker 2: kind of hated her more than Bell. 341 00:15:47,664 --> 00:15:52,744 Speaker 1: It's interesting at different parts of the show, I really 342 00:15:52,784 --> 00:15:55,664 Speaker 1: dislike these women, and then sometimes I just felt so 343 00:15:55,824 --> 00:15:59,064 Speaker 1: much empathy for them, even Belle Gibson, Like so many 344 00:15:59,064 --> 00:16:01,224 Speaker 1: people who were going into the show, because obviously we 345 00:16:01,264 --> 00:16:03,144 Speaker 1: got to watch it a bit early, so many people 346 00:16:03,144 --> 00:16:04,784 Speaker 1: going into the show said to me, like Oh, I 347 00:16:04,784 --> 00:16:07,064 Speaker 1: hate Belle Gibson. I can't wait to watch this. And 348 00:16:07,104 --> 00:16:08,864 Speaker 1: I had to say to them, like, it's not this 349 00:16:09,064 --> 00:16:11,264 Speaker 1: big take down of her, you think it's going to be, 350 00:16:11,344 --> 00:16:14,104 Speaker 1: Like she's humanized in a really interesting way? Is that, 351 00:16:14,304 --> 00:16:16,384 Speaker 1: especially in the first episode where you see her just 352 00:16:16,424 --> 00:16:21,024 Speaker 1: this like lonely lost young woman who is pregnant and 353 00:16:21,144 --> 00:16:23,584 Speaker 1: has no support and has obviously come from a terrible 354 00:16:23,584 --> 00:16:25,904 Speaker 1: home excusing what she did. But I think it's also 355 00:16:25,984 --> 00:16:28,184 Speaker 1: interesting to sort of see that, like a lot of 356 00:16:28,184 --> 00:16:30,464 Speaker 1: people who do terrible things in life, like they don't 357 00:16:30,504 --> 00:16:32,784 Speaker 1: just appear out of thin air and act that way. 358 00:16:32,864 --> 00:16:35,264 Speaker 1: Like there's a lot of lead up that goes there. Yeah, 359 00:16:35,264 --> 00:16:36,744 Speaker 1: and I thought they did a really good job of 360 00:16:36,824 --> 00:16:39,144 Speaker 1: humanizing her. So by the time she starts like lying 361 00:16:39,144 --> 00:16:42,624 Speaker 1: about having cancer, I like totally understood why she did that. 362 00:16:42,664 --> 00:16:45,144 Speaker 1: Those graphics on the screen where they have all the 363 00:16:45,224 --> 00:16:47,264 Speaker 1: light and the red and the gold colors that come 364 00:16:47,304 --> 00:16:49,944 Speaker 1: out of her phone and like envelop her in love 365 00:16:49,984 --> 00:16:52,704 Speaker 1: when she reaches out for help online, I thought was 366 00:16:52,744 --> 00:16:56,144 Speaker 1: like a really accurate representation of the dopamine hit you 367 00:16:56,184 --> 00:16:57,864 Speaker 1: get when you get love from. 368 00:16:57,784 --> 00:17:01,024 Speaker 2: Social addictive, Like if you've ever had like a piece 369 00:17:01,064 --> 00:17:05,104 Speaker 2: of social media be validated by a whole bunch of strangers. 370 00:17:05,104 --> 00:17:07,344 Speaker 2: It's like you run on that high for so long 371 00:17:07,424 --> 00:17:10,264 Speaker 2: and you just constantly need another post to go as viral. 372 00:17:10,824 --> 00:17:12,864 Speaker 1: And what part about Miller didn't you like just that 373 00:17:12,944 --> 00:17:15,504 Speaker 1: she wasn't saying yes to the cancer treatment or was 374 00:17:16,144 --> 00:17:17,584 Speaker 1: she kind of evolved as an influencer. 375 00:17:17,704 --> 00:17:20,584 Speaker 2: I think it was when she brought her mom into 376 00:17:20,624 --> 00:17:24,504 Speaker 2: it that like absolutely destroyed me, especially the scene with 377 00:17:24,544 --> 00:17:27,464 Speaker 2: her dad saying to her mom, she's killing you. Yeah, 378 00:17:27,464 --> 00:17:28,984 Speaker 2: she's going to kill you and she's like, no, I'm 379 00:17:28,984 --> 00:17:32,504 Speaker 2: not hat it's so like hard and then like her 380 00:17:32,544 --> 00:17:34,264 Speaker 2: mom And this is why Susie Porter I thought was 381 00:17:34,304 --> 00:17:37,584 Speaker 2: brilliant in this role when she said what kind of 382 00:17:37,624 --> 00:17:39,184 Speaker 2: mother would I be if I don't do this? 383 00:17:39,624 --> 00:17:39,944 Speaker 1: I know? 384 00:17:40,184 --> 00:17:42,264 Speaker 2: And like because she let her daughter do it so 385 00:17:42,424 --> 00:17:45,464 Speaker 2: and I'm like, that's so true, Like it's all so true, 386 00:17:45,544 --> 00:17:48,704 Speaker 2: Like it felt so real and it was just she's real. 387 00:17:49,184 --> 00:17:51,744 Speaker 2: The whole scene of her speaking about it just felt 388 00:17:51,744 --> 00:17:54,504 Speaker 2: so real and it was just so tragic and you 389 00:17:54,664 --> 00:17:56,704 Speaker 2: just knew what was going to happen, and you were 390 00:17:56,744 --> 00:17:58,584 Speaker 2: just so scared that it wasn't going to happen. It 391 00:17:59,024 --> 00:18:01,384 Speaker 2: does happen. It was just really sad, and that just 392 00:18:01,424 --> 00:18:03,504 Speaker 2: kissed me off about her, Like when my mom died, 393 00:18:03,544 --> 00:18:04,344 Speaker 2: I was like, I hate you. 394 00:18:04,864 --> 00:18:07,744 Speaker 1: I know the visceral anger I felt through watching this show. 395 00:18:07,784 --> 00:18:09,504 Speaker 1: It's quite surprised. I felt like we all toed on 396 00:18:09,584 --> 00:18:10,224 Speaker 1: her on college. 397 00:18:10,544 --> 00:18:12,144 Speaker 2: Yeah, like he was just so anxy. 398 00:18:12,184 --> 00:18:13,704 Speaker 1: I don't know when he was like, just to be clear, 399 00:18:13,984 --> 00:18:16,064 Speaker 1: you will die, you will die, and everyone's like, oh no, 400 00:18:16,144 --> 00:18:18,944 Speaker 1: don't do it. But doctors have to sometimes use that 401 00:18:19,104 --> 00:18:22,304 Speaker 1: language so that there's no gray area. It's like when 402 00:18:22,304 --> 00:18:24,104 Speaker 1: a doctor comes out to tell you that a loved 403 00:18:24,144 --> 00:18:26,504 Speaker 1: one has died, they have to say they have died. 404 00:18:26,544 --> 00:18:28,664 Speaker 1: They can't say passed away, they can't say anything like 405 00:18:28,704 --> 00:18:32,144 Speaker 1: that because they've been taught to like use this language 406 00:18:32,144 --> 00:18:35,144 Speaker 1: that it sounds harsh, but there's no gray area. There's 407 00:18:35,144 --> 00:18:38,104 Speaker 1: no brain from misinterpretation of what that means. The idea 408 00:18:38,104 --> 00:18:39,464 Speaker 1: of her mother, Like, it was hard for me to 409 00:18:39,464 --> 00:18:40,904 Speaker 1: hate her as a character for that, even though I 410 00:18:40,944 --> 00:18:44,544 Speaker 1: was really angry watching it, because it's like she was 411 00:18:44,664 --> 00:18:46,864 Speaker 1: so close to her mother and loved her so much, 412 00:18:47,184 --> 00:18:50,064 Speaker 1: and the only reason that she wanted her to go 413 00:18:50,144 --> 00:18:53,064 Speaker 1: through that same healthcare situation that she had gone through 414 00:18:53,144 --> 00:18:56,664 Speaker 1: that take that same wellness journey. Was that because at 415 00:18:56,664 --> 00:18:59,024 Speaker 1: that point in her life, she one hundred percent believed 416 00:18:59,024 --> 00:19:01,424 Speaker 1: that he had cured her. Yeah, and that's why she 417 00:19:01,504 --> 00:19:03,664 Speaker 1: was so hesitant, Like when they're in the hospital, that 418 00:19:03,704 --> 00:19:05,584 Speaker 1: scene where she's saying to the doctor, just so you know, 419 00:19:05,664 --> 00:19:08,264 Speaker 1: our family has a really bad history, and the family 420 00:19:08,304 --> 00:19:10,944 Speaker 1: doesn't have a bad history with doctors. It's just that 421 00:19:10,984 --> 00:19:13,024 Speaker 1: at that point in time, because she hasn't had any 422 00:19:13,064 --> 00:19:16,504 Speaker 1: scans to show that her cancer is growing until later on, 423 00:19:16,704 --> 00:19:19,904 Speaker 1: she thinks she's saving her mother's life, and she's willing 424 00:19:19,944 --> 00:19:22,824 Speaker 1: to like make enemies. She's willing to have her father 425 00:19:22,864 --> 00:19:24,744 Speaker 1: be angry at her. She's willing to use up all 426 00:19:24,784 --> 00:19:26,984 Speaker 1: their money because she thinks she's saving her mother's life, 427 00:19:26,984 --> 00:19:28,704 Speaker 1: which makes it so much more tragic. 428 00:19:28,864 --> 00:19:31,704 Speaker 2: And I was thinking like, and it's so easy for 429 00:19:31,784 --> 00:19:35,304 Speaker 2: me to say, as someone who's like perfectly healthy Touchwood, 430 00:19:35,784 --> 00:19:38,184 Speaker 2: is that imagine what it could have been if she 431 00:19:38,464 --> 00:19:42,264 Speaker 2: had just done the surgery. Yeah, But then I'm also like, 432 00:19:42,304 --> 00:19:44,864 Speaker 2: you can't ask a twenty two year old woman to 433 00:19:45,464 --> 00:19:46,304 Speaker 2: get rid of her arm. 434 00:19:46,424 --> 00:19:50,104 Speaker 1: Essentially, It's interesting because after Jessica aans Co died and 435 00:19:50,104 --> 00:19:52,304 Speaker 1: there was a big public memorial for her that a 436 00:19:52,344 --> 00:19:56,104 Speaker 1: lot of people went to. Her father and husband put 437 00:19:56,144 --> 00:19:57,504 Speaker 1: out a release, and you know, a lot of it 438 00:19:57,544 --> 00:20:00,424 Speaker 1: was like thanking people for their support and talking about 439 00:20:00,424 --> 00:20:03,184 Speaker 1: what Jessica had meant for people. But they also included 440 00:20:03,224 --> 00:20:05,144 Speaker 1: a statement where they said, it has been reported that 441 00:20:05,264 --> 00:20:08,264 Speaker 1: Jessica had received a certain type of medical care and 442 00:20:08,344 --> 00:20:11,624 Speaker 1: paraphrasing here that she would have live and that is incorrect. 443 00:20:11,704 --> 00:20:13,664 Speaker 1: So whether or not that's incorrect or not, I don't know. 444 00:20:13,744 --> 00:20:16,144 Speaker 1: I wasn't involved in her medical treatment, but I just 445 00:20:16,144 --> 00:20:18,744 Speaker 1: thought it was quite interesting that even like at the 446 00:20:18,904 --> 00:20:21,784 Speaker 1: end of her life, after all that had happened, they 447 00:20:21,824 --> 00:20:23,944 Speaker 1: were still wanting to put out this thing saying like, 448 00:20:24,024 --> 00:20:26,904 Speaker 1: don't judge her for what she did because she didn't 449 00:20:26,944 --> 00:20:29,824 Speaker 1: do the wrong thing, Like that kind of protectiveness on her. 450 00:20:35,504 --> 00:20:39,544 Speaker 1: I want to build something meaningful. The lack I've recently 451 00:20:39,584 --> 00:20:43,104 Speaker 1: been diamosed with a third of cancer. It has ninety 452 00:20:43,184 --> 00:20:46,664 Speaker 1: thousand blikes. She does not have spling cancer. 453 00:20:48,264 --> 00:20:54,184 Speaker 2: Always know what you're putting a body, Well, it's a 454 00:20:54,224 --> 00:21:01,544 Speaker 2: simple question, do you have cancer? I want to destroy her. 455 00:21:03,664 --> 00:21:07,104 Speaker 1: Something I thought was interesting is how they fictionalize this 456 00:21:07,184 --> 00:21:10,664 Speaker 1: kind of rivalry between Miller and Bell, which I guess 457 00:21:10,664 --> 00:21:13,584 Speaker 1: you did need to push the show along because in 458 00:21:13,624 --> 00:21:16,024 Speaker 1: real life, Belle and Jessica did cross paths, but it 459 00:21:16,064 --> 00:21:16,944 Speaker 1: was different to the show. 460 00:21:17,264 --> 00:21:20,424 Speaker 2: I read that Belle like also like attended her funeral. 461 00:21:20,424 --> 00:21:23,584 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, no, that funeral seems so that out 462 00:21:23,584 --> 00:21:24,544 Speaker 1: of everything in the show. 463 00:21:24,584 --> 00:21:25,904 Speaker 2: I was like, surely this part. 464 00:21:25,744 --> 00:21:28,984 Speaker 1: Of the ship, that part is so real. Soon I know, 465 00:21:29,144 --> 00:21:30,624 Speaker 1: I was like, we have to how did she do? 466 00:21:31,064 --> 00:21:32,664 Speaker 1: I know? I put that story up on side because 467 00:21:32,664 --> 00:21:33,904 Speaker 1: I was like, the people need to know about this. 468 00:21:34,184 --> 00:21:36,384 Speaker 1: So Belle and Jessica first met at a conference they 469 00:21:36,424 --> 00:21:39,664 Speaker 1: didn't know each other, and Jessica's manager later on. This 470 00:21:39,744 --> 00:21:40,824 Speaker 1: is all coming from the book. 471 00:21:40,864 --> 00:21:43,464 Speaker 2: It's Jessica's manager, the one who Chanelle is. 472 00:21:44,024 --> 00:21:46,344 Speaker 1: Oh no, no, this is a different job. Oh, Shanell 473 00:21:46,464 --> 00:21:47,024 Speaker 1: is a real person. 474 00:21:47,104 --> 00:21:48,104 Speaker 2: Yes, we'll get to okay. 475 00:21:48,304 --> 00:21:50,344 Speaker 1: All these stories of what was true and what's not 476 00:21:50,504 --> 00:21:52,904 Speaker 1: are coming from the original book this series is based 477 00:21:52,904 --> 00:21:54,904 Speaker 1: on because they interviewed a lot of people involved in 478 00:21:54,904 --> 00:21:58,144 Speaker 1: the situation and they said that Jessica and Bell met 479 00:21:58,184 --> 00:22:01,024 Speaker 1: for the first time at a conference where Belle came 480 00:22:01,104 --> 00:22:04,184 Speaker 1: up and introduced herself to Jessica, and Jessica later told 481 00:22:04,264 --> 00:22:06,544 Speaker 1: her manager and her manager as the one being interviewed, 482 00:22:06,984 --> 00:22:09,584 Speaker 1: that she was very wary of her and felt a 483 00:22:09,624 --> 00:22:12,824 Speaker 1: little uneasy. But they did continue to have this Instagram 484 00:22:12,864 --> 00:22:16,424 Speaker 1: relationship after this, where they would leave comments on each 485 00:22:16,504 --> 00:22:19,304 Speaker 1: other's posts, you know, celebrating each other, love hearts, all 486 00:22:19,304 --> 00:22:22,264 Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. And then when she died, she 487 00:22:22,304 --> 00:22:25,224 Speaker 1: did attend her funeral, and it's written in the book 488 00:22:25,264 --> 00:22:27,224 Speaker 1: that her family and friends were like, one, how did 489 00:22:27,224 --> 00:22:28,824 Speaker 1: you know what was happening here? How did you know 490 00:22:28,864 --> 00:22:30,784 Speaker 1: where the house was? They don't know how she showed 491 00:22:30,864 --> 00:22:34,104 Speaker 1: up and how she's sobbing in the church when I 492 00:22:34,144 --> 00:22:35,584 Speaker 1: was watching that, because I went and looked up a 493 00:22:35,624 --> 00:22:38,584 Speaker 1: lot of these things later, I thought, surely this is 494 00:22:38,624 --> 00:22:41,864 Speaker 1: the fictionalized pot. Surely the real Bell Gibson did not 495 00:22:41,904 --> 00:22:45,184 Speaker 1: walk into that young woman's funeral and sob and make 496 00:22:45,224 --> 00:22:45,824 Speaker 1: it about her. 497 00:22:46,024 --> 00:22:46,944 Speaker 2: But she did. 498 00:22:48,264 --> 00:22:50,344 Speaker 1: Well, and her friends and family later said when they 499 00:22:50,384 --> 00:22:52,784 Speaker 1: were interviewed that it looked like she was trying to 500 00:22:52,904 --> 00:22:55,264 Speaker 1: show that her grief was more than everyone else, and 501 00:22:55,264 --> 00:22:57,824 Speaker 1: that she was trying to steal the spotlight. And it's 502 00:22:57,864 --> 00:23:01,344 Speaker 1: also alleged that the wake afterwards, again, how did she go? 503 00:23:01,624 --> 00:23:03,704 Speaker 1: She went and she went into the bedroom like she 504 00:23:03,744 --> 00:23:05,704 Speaker 1: does in the show and tried to sob and like 505 00:23:05,784 --> 00:23:09,704 Speaker 1: comfort her fiance or her husband, her husband in real life. 506 00:23:09,744 --> 00:23:12,304 Speaker 2: God, and he seen it away so good where he 507 00:23:12,384 --> 00:23:13,544 Speaker 2: was like, you gave it the creep. 508 00:23:13,824 --> 00:23:16,104 Speaker 1: Yeah, she had a full freak out and he was like, 509 00:23:16,184 --> 00:23:19,584 Speaker 1: get away from me. It's like obiercely. But I also 510 00:23:19,664 --> 00:23:21,624 Speaker 1: think that that was kind of interesting that they took 511 00:23:21,704 --> 00:23:24,864 Speaker 1: this little nugget of what had happened in real life. 512 00:23:24,944 --> 00:23:28,184 Speaker 1: Is that Belle really seemed to idolize Jessica, or maybe 513 00:23:28,224 --> 00:23:30,504 Speaker 1: she didn't nihlize her, Maybe she just wanted she saw 514 00:23:30,544 --> 00:23:33,584 Speaker 1: this outpouring of like genuine love and affection that her 515 00:23:33,584 --> 00:23:36,344 Speaker 1: family and friends and followers had for her because she 516 00:23:36,464 --> 00:23:39,024 Speaker 1: was sick and she wanted to bask in that. And 517 00:23:39,064 --> 00:23:41,744 Speaker 1: they were both two beautiful, blonde, attractive women who had 518 00:23:41,744 --> 00:23:46,144 Speaker 1: made a career of these wellness platforms. But I thought 519 00:23:46,184 --> 00:23:48,264 Speaker 1: in the show was interesting how they kind of dial 520 00:23:48,384 --> 00:23:51,144 Speaker 1: that up so intensely, And I think you kind of 521 00:23:51,584 --> 00:23:54,184 Speaker 1: needed that to kind of push the story along and 522 00:23:54,224 --> 00:23:57,624 Speaker 1: show like just because everything is all light and fluffy 523 00:23:57,664 --> 00:23:59,944 Speaker 1: and we're best friends online. It's so much more brutal 524 00:23:59,984 --> 00:24:00,744 Speaker 1: behind the scenes. 525 00:24:01,264 --> 00:24:04,784 Speaker 2: My favorite character in the whole show was I should 526 00:24:04,824 --> 00:24:07,264 Speaker 2: e yeah now, oh my god. I thought she was 527 00:24:07,304 --> 00:24:11,144 Speaker 2: like perfect. I loved how she was acting as like 528 00:24:11,344 --> 00:24:15,024 Speaker 2: the audience, I guess the answer for the audience whenever 529 00:24:15,064 --> 00:24:17,104 Speaker 2: we had questions. She was like that person who would 530 00:24:17,184 --> 00:24:19,784 Speaker 2: answer it because they used her in the different time 531 00:24:19,824 --> 00:24:22,704 Speaker 2: slots right like right from the beginning to present day 532 00:24:22,784 --> 00:24:25,624 Speaker 2: where she's talking to the journalist, to like where she 533 00:24:26,024 --> 00:24:28,624 Speaker 2: got swept away with all of Bell's lies, but also 534 00:24:28,664 --> 00:24:31,744 Speaker 2: being best friends with Miller, And I think that she 535 00:24:32,264 --> 00:24:36,024 Speaker 2: was a character that was just kind of so angry 536 00:24:36,064 --> 00:24:38,384 Speaker 2: that she also fell for it. Yeah, and then she 537 00:24:38,424 --> 00:24:40,144 Speaker 2: I felt like she had so much weight on a 538 00:24:40,264 --> 00:24:43,464 Speaker 2: chest for feeling guilty of Like I felt like she 539 00:24:43,504 --> 00:24:46,624 Speaker 2: felt guilty for her friend's death because she just like 540 00:24:46,824 --> 00:24:49,304 Speaker 2: left her to kind of fend for herself with her 541 00:24:49,384 --> 00:24:52,784 Speaker 2: juices and went on to support Bell, who was at 542 00:24:52,784 --> 00:24:56,184 Speaker 2: that time the more successful influencer. And I think her 543 00:24:56,224 --> 00:24:59,344 Speaker 2: portrayal of herself was so well and how she navigated 544 00:24:59,344 --> 00:25:02,624 Speaker 2: those friendships because that would suck, Like imagine being like 545 00:25:02,664 --> 00:25:05,664 Speaker 2: one of the women who was like perfectly healthy who 546 00:25:05,664 --> 00:25:07,984 Speaker 2: didn't actually have to like rely on your life to 547 00:25:08,024 --> 00:25:10,904 Speaker 2: believe these kind of things and yet you still fall 548 00:25:10,944 --> 00:25:11,224 Speaker 2: for it. 549 00:25:11,464 --> 00:25:14,424 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, that's a really crazy turn of events. 550 00:25:14,664 --> 00:25:17,824 Speaker 1: So Chanelle was Bill Gibson's best friend, Like, that's true. 551 00:25:17,904 --> 00:25:21,424 Speaker 1: The fictionalized part is her relationship with the Miller character. 552 00:25:21,544 --> 00:25:21,944 Speaker 2: Oh okay. 553 00:25:21,944 --> 00:25:23,944 Speaker 1: So it's interesting that Belle and Chanell are the two 554 00:25:23,984 --> 00:25:26,504 Speaker 1: that have kept the names from the real life characters. 555 00:25:26,744 --> 00:25:29,144 Speaker 1: But I think why they've done that is that Bell Gibson, 556 00:25:29,184 --> 00:25:31,704 Speaker 1: everything she's done is on the record. And then Chanelle 557 00:25:32,024 --> 00:25:35,224 Speaker 1: was the main whistleblower who worked with the journalist and 558 00:25:35,224 --> 00:25:36,784 Speaker 1: who let everyone know what was happening. So you can 559 00:25:36,904 --> 00:25:39,144 Speaker 1: use her name in the show because she's on recorders 560 00:25:39,544 --> 00:25:42,704 Speaker 1: as doing this. So she first met Bell Gibson after 561 00:25:42,744 --> 00:25:46,304 Speaker 1: being signed her as an interviewee during a writing internship, 562 00:25:46,664 --> 00:25:49,264 Speaker 1: and they became really close and she worked a lot 563 00:25:49,304 --> 00:25:51,264 Speaker 1: with her. And then when she found out that Bell 564 00:25:51,304 --> 00:25:54,304 Speaker 1: Gibson was lying about her cancer and misleading people, that 565 00:25:54,424 --> 00:25:57,264 Speaker 1: scene where she gives her the opportunity like tell the truth, 566 00:25:57,304 --> 00:25:59,504 Speaker 1: like and tell me right now, and she doesn't happened 567 00:25:59,504 --> 00:26:02,224 Speaker 1: in real life. And when Belle continued to lie to her. 568 00:26:02,544 --> 00:26:05,464 Speaker 1: She made it her crying. Yeah, oh my god, she 569 00:26:05,504 --> 00:26:08,264 Speaker 1: made it her mission to expose her lies. And it 570 00:26:08,304 --> 00:26:12,624 Speaker 1: was really her testimonial that really made it possible for 571 00:26:12,664 --> 00:26:15,864 Speaker 1: those initial investigative reports to go forward. The other thing 572 00:26:15,864 --> 00:26:17,864 Speaker 1: that was true is that Bell Gibson really did fake 573 00:26:17,904 --> 00:26:20,544 Speaker 1: that seizure at her son's birthday party. Was that true? 574 00:26:20,664 --> 00:26:22,744 Speaker 1: That's true as well, in front of her son, in 575 00:26:22,824 --> 00:26:24,984 Speaker 1: front of her son and everyone for like an extended 576 00:26:25,024 --> 00:26:27,464 Speaker 1: period of time. And that's another reason why a few 577 00:26:27,464 --> 00:26:29,584 Speaker 1: people were just like seeing it in real life. That's 578 00:26:29,624 --> 00:26:31,784 Speaker 1: when it started to kind of put off some warning bells. 579 00:26:31,784 --> 00:26:33,344 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 580 00:26:33,624 --> 00:26:36,584 Speaker 1: The stuff with her son I found absolutely brutal to watch. 581 00:26:36,584 --> 00:26:38,624 Speaker 1: I've got to say, I can't stand when kids are involved. 582 00:26:38,664 --> 00:26:40,704 Speaker 1: And that scene where he's looked in his room, which 583 00:26:40,784 --> 00:26:43,344 Speaker 1: is not a proven thing, is mentally fictionalized, but was 584 00:26:43,384 --> 00:26:45,304 Speaker 1: just trying to show what happens when a parent is 585 00:26:45,344 --> 00:26:47,184 Speaker 1: and he was sick and stuff, and she takes him too. 586 00:26:47,184 --> 00:26:50,224 Speaker 1: An alternative therapist who does the light and sound machine, 587 00:26:50,224 --> 00:26:53,264 Speaker 1: which is what Bell Gibson said diagnosed to cancer. When 588 00:26:53,264 --> 00:26:54,184 Speaker 1: she was found out. 589 00:26:54,064 --> 00:26:57,824 Speaker 2: Oh my, the light and sound machines absolutely sent me 590 00:26:57,864 --> 00:27:01,104 Speaker 2: the ten thousand dollar light in Sound Machine. What was 591 00:27:01,144 --> 00:27:03,944 Speaker 2: so sad for me and absolutely heartbreaking was one of 592 00:27:03,944 --> 00:27:06,824 Speaker 2: the final scenes of the series when she was with 593 00:27:06,944 --> 00:27:10,704 Speaker 2: her son, and you just see how much kid pick 594 00:27:10,784 --> 00:27:14,384 Speaker 2: up and how much kids learn, and the generational trauma 595 00:27:14,464 --> 00:27:17,104 Speaker 2: in her family because her mom wasn't a saint either, 596 00:27:17,304 --> 00:27:20,224 Speaker 2: like she had like a very troubled childhood, and her 597 00:27:20,264 --> 00:27:22,984 Speaker 2: mom has publicly spoken about Bell Gibson, like the real 598 00:27:22,984 --> 00:27:25,424 Speaker 2: Bell Gibson, some one has publicly spoken about her and 599 00:27:25,464 --> 00:27:28,664 Speaker 2: how she doesn't agree with anything she did. And that 600 00:27:28,784 --> 00:27:31,304 Speaker 2: scene with her son, how he had like his bandaged 601 00:27:31,464 --> 00:27:33,984 Speaker 2: arm and then he said he broke his hand like 602 00:27:34,104 --> 00:27:36,784 Speaker 2: while he was sleeping. Yeah, and then straight away she 603 00:27:36,864 --> 00:27:39,664 Speaker 2: was like, no, we can't like let this continue, like 604 00:27:39,704 --> 00:27:42,624 Speaker 2: we can't let this craziness that I've been going through 605 00:27:42,744 --> 00:27:45,784 Speaker 2: continue with like your generation and the generation after. But 606 00:27:45,864 --> 00:27:48,664 Speaker 2: that was so sad because I feel like in those moments, 607 00:27:48,664 --> 00:27:51,224 Speaker 2: because he was so young, she probably would have passed on, 608 00:27:51,344 --> 00:27:54,144 Speaker 2: like the seizure at his birthday party. She'd have been like, oh, 609 00:27:54,144 --> 00:27:56,144 Speaker 2: he's too young to remember that, Like you won't remember that, 610 00:27:56,144 --> 00:27:57,424 Speaker 2: And my kids remember everything. 611 00:27:57,544 --> 00:28:00,704 Speaker 1: They pick up everything, which is yeah, just another really 612 00:28:00,744 --> 00:28:05,344 Speaker 1: sobering part of the story. Also, her husband so hot Clive, Yeah, yeah, 613 00:28:05,384 --> 00:28:07,544 Speaker 1: that he would again interesting character again based on a 614 00:28:07,544 --> 00:28:10,224 Speaker 1: real person. Again, his name really was Clive. It's hard 615 00:28:10,264 --> 00:28:12,824 Speaker 1: to sort of tell if they're still together because it's 616 00:28:12,904 --> 00:28:15,584 Speaker 1: very hard to find any information on Bell Gibson. Now, 617 00:28:15,904 --> 00:28:18,384 Speaker 1: we do know that she never went to prison. At 618 00:28:18,384 --> 00:28:20,344 Speaker 1: the time of recording, she hasn't paid back. 619 00:28:20,464 --> 00:28:22,504 Speaker 2: That's the while that she's never gone to prison. 620 00:28:22,544 --> 00:28:25,064 Speaker 1: I know, there's so many different like legalities there that 621 00:28:25,264 --> 00:28:27,864 Speaker 1: make that hard. She did join an Ethiopian community, I 622 00:28:27,904 --> 00:28:30,984 Speaker 1: do believe at one stage, and was seen wearing their 623 00:28:30,984 --> 00:28:33,544 Speaker 1: traditional dress and everything, but when the community was asked 624 00:28:33,544 --> 00:28:35,824 Speaker 1: for a statement, they said she wasn't officially part of them. 625 00:28:36,184 --> 00:28:39,224 Speaker 1: I think she's been photographed a few times. Allegedly she 626 00:28:39,224 --> 00:28:41,024 Speaker 1: has another child. Now it's so hard to say because 627 00:28:41,024 --> 00:28:43,184 Speaker 1: she's not. And also every single news outlet in the 628 00:28:43,224 --> 00:28:45,304 Speaker 1: world right now is trying to find her and contact her, 629 00:28:45,344 --> 00:28:48,024 Speaker 1: and no one's managed to speak to her. But she 630 00:28:48,304 --> 00:28:51,184 Speaker 1: did stay with Clive for a long time after this 631 00:28:51,304 --> 00:28:53,624 Speaker 1: all blew up, and I think seeing his story is 632 00:28:53,624 --> 00:28:56,744 Speaker 1: interesting too, because again I think the show humanizes people 633 00:28:56,784 --> 00:28:59,144 Speaker 1: in such a way that by the time, he decides 634 00:28:59,184 --> 00:29:02,064 Speaker 1: to stay with her, like you almost do understand it, Yeah, 635 00:29:02,104 --> 00:29:04,304 Speaker 1: which is really annoying, But obviously he's doing it for 636 00:29:04,344 --> 00:29:06,704 Speaker 1: the sun and for the family unit he has, and 637 00:29:06,744 --> 00:29:08,384 Speaker 1: he just feels that he'll go back into the world 638 00:29:08,424 --> 00:29:10,824 Speaker 1: alone and even if the life he has with Bell 639 00:29:10,904 --> 00:29:13,744 Speaker 1: isn't real, it's better than the reality he faces without her. 640 00:29:14,304 --> 00:29:18,424 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so sad. But like they're still living in 641 00:29:18,464 --> 00:29:20,304 Speaker 2: like the mans Like right at the end, you just 642 00:29:20,384 --> 00:29:22,544 Speaker 2: you still see them living in that maship house and 643 00:29:22,624 --> 00:29:24,784 Speaker 2: the mansion, and you hear that sixty minutes is like 644 00:29:24,784 --> 00:29:28,104 Speaker 2: paying her seventy five grand, but that even though that 645 00:29:28,224 --> 00:29:31,224 Speaker 2: poor boy who actually had brain cancer needed sixty grand, 646 00:29:31,784 --> 00:29:34,784 Speaker 2: story as well, you better give him that money. 647 00:29:34,544 --> 00:29:37,544 Speaker 1: Bell, But she never did. That's another story that's pulled 648 00:29:37,544 --> 00:29:39,224 Speaker 1: from it. Obviously, there's a lot of families that were 649 00:29:39,264 --> 00:29:41,184 Speaker 1: in that situation, but it's not a real story. Yeah, 650 00:29:41,184 --> 00:29:43,504 Speaker 1: there's one family in particular who were working closely with 651 00:29:43,544 --> 00:29:44,184 Speaker 1: her at the time. 652 00:29:44,744 --> 00:29:46,784 Speaker 2: Because I remember them from part of the interview. 653 00:29:46,864 --> 00:29:49,184 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, So they were part of the interview and 654 00:29:49,224 --> 00:29:51,144 Speaker 1: that's chronicled in the book that the show is based 655 00:29:51,184 --> 00:29:53,624 Speaker 1: on as well. And basically after it happened. Mums, Like, 656 00:29:53,664 --> 00:29:56,224 Speaker 1: I'm absolutely blindsided. I thought this woman was helping me, 657 00:29:56,264 --> 00:29:57,984 Speaker 1: she was raising this money for my son who was 658 00:29:58,024 --> 00:30:00,504 Speaker 1: cancer and then none of the money showed up. And 659 00:30:00,584 --> 00:30:03,984 Speaker 1: I think, like maybe nowadays, like people would get up 660 00:30:03,984 --> 00:30:05,984 Speaker 1: a GoFundMe and get that money back to that person. 661 00:30:06,064 --> 00:30:07,744 Speaker 1: But I think at the time, and maybe that did 662 00:30:07,824 --> 00:30:09,424 Speaker 1: happen to an extent, But I also think at the 663 00:30:09,424 --> 00:30:11,304 Speaker 1: time people were just so shocked and angry and didn't 664 00:30:11,344 --> 00:30:13,544 Speaker 1: know what to believe, that it was hard to sort 665 00:30:13,544 --> 00:30:16,984 Speaker 1: of recoup that money from people who had already donated. Yeah, 666 00:30:17,184 --> 00:30:19,864 Speaker 1: getting onto another really sad point in the show, which 667 00:30:20,024 --> 00:30:22,304 Speaker 1: I know there's so many, there's so many to choose from. 668 00:30:22,344 --> 00:30:23,984 Speaker 1: I mean, you hated us, maybe you didn't care. But 669 00:30:24,064 --> 00:30:27,904 Speaker 1: I thought Miller's death was done in a really interesting way. 670 00:30:28,064 --> 00:30:30,184 Speaker 1: I also thought her character was built in an interesting 671 00:30:30,224 --> 00:30:32,704 Speaker 1: way that she's such a product of her time, of 672 00:30:32,784 --> 00:30:35,704 Speaker 1: that early two thousands when the show takes place where 673 00:30:35,744 --> 00:30:38,184 Speaker 1: she like loves Cleo, like she's a mad girl. Like 674 00:30:38,264 --> 00:30:42,184 Speaker 1: the clothes she's wearing are all of very of the hair. Yeah, 675 00:30:42,304 --> 00:30:45,304 Speaker 1: she's very obsessed with Sweet Valley High and one of 676 00:30:45,304 --> 00:30:47,584 Speaker 1: the main characters I was like, that is a perfect 677 00:30:47,744 --> 00:30:48,584 Speaker 1: like amalgamation. 678 00:30:48,744 --> 00:30:51,344 Speaker 2: They're like sitting on the laptop on the rock at 679 00:30:51,344 --> 00:30:54,264 Speaker 2: the beach was so tumbler coded, but she was so 680 00:30:54,344 --> 00:30:55,544 Speaker 2: obsessed exactly. 681 00:30:55,584 --> 00:30:57,344 Speaker 1: But when you see her in that moment, I mean, 682 00:30:57,344 --> 00:30:59,424 Speaker 1: when she tells her dad and unwraps her arm, I mean, 683 00:30:59,424 --> 00:31:01,624 Speaker 1: that's the most one of the most brutal TV scenes 684 00:31:02,024 --> 00:31:04,144 Speaker 1: I've ever seen, because you think that he's going to 685 00:31:04,184 --> 00:31:07,304 Speaker 1: be angry at her, but then he's just obviously devastated. 686 00:31:07,344 --> 00:31:09,624 Speaker 1: And I thought her last blog post, which I was 687 00:31:09,624 --> 00:31:12,584 Speaker 1: trying to find jes Aine Crowe's last blog post, and 688 00:31:12,664 --> 00:31:14,904 Speaker 1: that it's all been taken down. So but I do 689 00:31:14,984 --> 00:31:16,904 Speaker 1: believe that she never wrote the words. You know, if 690 00:31:16,904 --> 00:31:20,184 Speaker 1: I could return to traditional medicine now, I would. But again, 691 00:31:20,224 --> 00:31:22,744 Speaker 1: I think that's part of the fictionalized journey of Miller, 692 00:31:22,784 --> 00:31:26,064 Speaker 1: of her coming out and saying like, my final act 693 00:31:26,304 --> 00:31:29,424 Speaker 1: is just to say I should have done this, but 694 00:31:29,584 --> 00:31:31,424 Speaker 1: this is where I am now. And I think it's 695 00:31:31,424 --> 00:31:34,584 Speaker 1: also like a really powerful moment where she closes the 696 00:31:34,624 --> 00:31:37,384 Speaker 1: laptop because you see all those messages flashing up and 697 00:31:37,424 --> 00:31:39,544 Speaker 1: people are being like, no, I've got a cure. I know, 698 00:31:39,584 --> 00:31:42,104 Speaker 1: a healer I know these a few years ago in 699 00:31:42,144 --> 00:31:44,224 Speaker 1: her life, she would have jumped on all those messages. 700 00:31:44,224 --> 00:31:46,584 Speaker 1: But she just closes the laptop and sits in peace, 701 00:31:46,744 --> 00:31:49,384 Speaker 1: and we don't actually see her pass away, but that 702 00:31:49,504 --> 00:31:52,464 Speaker 1: idea of watching her close the laptop is her death 703 00:31:52,504 --> 00:31:53,184 Speaker 1: scene in a way. 704 00:31:53,344 --> 00:31:57,104 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think how like people perceived both Bell 705 00:31:57,384 --> 00:32:01,104 Speaker 2: and Jess at the time is evident through Lucy, her 706 00:32:01,184 --> 00:32:04,744 Speaker 2: character who actually has breast cancer and you see her 707 00:32:04,744 --> 00:32:08,344 Speaker 2: go on this journey of believing Belle and believing like 708 00:32:08,544 --> 00:32:12,184 Speaker 2: ultimate medicine to kind of doing her own thing and 709 00:32:12,224 --> 00:32:14,464 Speaker 2: having like these big fights with the people who love 710 00:32:14,504 --> 00:32:16,944 Speaker 2: her who want her to just get better and go 711 00:32:17,104 --> 00:32:19,624 Speaker 2: the traditional medicine route, and then she just had to 712 00:32:19,664 --> 00:32:21,424 Speaker 2: go on that journey by herself where she did like 713 00:32:21,504 --> 00:32:23,624 Speaker 2: try it for a little bit and then she was like, actually, no, 714 00:32:23,784 --> 00:32:26,224 Speaker 2: I want to go back into chemo and like do 715 00:32:26,304 --> 00:32:28,664 Speaker 2: it properly. And I think that kind of was like 716 00:32:28,664 --> 00:32:30,944 Speaker 2: a bit gave me a tiny bit of hope that like, 717 00:32:31,144 --> 00:32:34,984 Speaker 2: not everyone's life was destroyed by Belle Gibson. Yeah, like 718 00:32:35,064 --> 00:32:36,184 Speaker 2: in who she Influenced. 719 00:32:36,424 --> 00:32:39,344 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so interesting because that closing montage of how 720 00:32:39,384 --> 00:32:42,024 Speaker 1: the last episode ends has been like a little bit 721 00:32:42,064 --> 00:32:45,184 Speaker 1: polarizing in a way because obviously you could just keep going, 722 00:32:45,264 --> 00:32:47,624 Speaker 1: like obviously where she's found out is an endpoint, but 723 00:32:47,704 --> 00:32:49,944 Speaker 1: the story continued to roll on. So I think from 724 00:32:49,944 --> 00:32:53,104 Speaker 1: a creative perspective, it's interesting to know where to end 725 00:32:53,144 --> 00:32:55,344 Speaker 1: it and not do like, you know, flash forward to 726 00:32:55,384 --> 00:32:57,504 Speaker 1: where she's in twenty twenty five or something like that. 727 00:32:57,704 --> 00:33:00,144 Speaker 1: But in the closing montage, you see like Belle like 728 00:33:00,224 --> 00:33:02,344 Speaker 1: so happy in the sun. She's nex to this swimming 729 00:33:02,344 --> 00:33:05,384 Speaker 1: pool and you see she's with Clive and her son. 730 00:33:05,544 --> 00:33:06,464 Speaker 2: That really annoyed me. 731 00:33:06,584 --> 00:33:08,144 Speaker 1: I know, well, it's meant to annoy you. It's meant 732 00:33:08,184 --> 00:33:09,064 Speaker 1: to show like she. 733 00:33:09,144 --> 00:33:11,744 Speaker 2: Just ruined everyone's life and now she here, she is 734 00:33:11,784 --> 00:33:14,144 Speaker 2: in her mansion with her seventy five k in pocket, 735 00:33:14,624 --> 00:33:17,344 Speaker 2: just like not even bothered that that interview is about 736 00:33:17,344 --> 00:33:18,664 Speaker 2: to ruin like a reputation. 737 00:33:18,944 --> 00:33:20,704 Speaker 1: That's so interesting because it's meant to annoy you. It's 738 00:33:20,744 --> 00:33:22,784 Speaker 1: meant to make you angry. That's what the creators have said. 739 00:33:22,904 --> 00:33:26,704 Speaker 1: It's meant to make you angry because, as they keep saying, 740 00:33:26,704 --> 00:33:28,464 Speaker 1: the show is not really about Bell Gibson. It's about 741 00:33:28,464 --> 00:33:31,704 Speaker 1: the wellness influence industry and how this is kind of 742 00:33:31,744 --> 00:33:34,104 Speaker 1: this big red flag for how you know, a lot 743 00:33:34,144 --> 00:33:36,544 Speaker 1: of times there's no regulations, you can't trust these people, 744 00:33:36,784 --> 00:33:40,464 Speaker 1: but people looking for hope so much they'll honestly believe everything. 745 00:33:40,744 --> 00:33:43,144 Speaker 1: And then you see Bell Gibson. We know obviously she 746 00:33:43,184 --> 00:33:44,544 Speaker 1: went on to like you know, lose money and all 747 00:33:44,544 --> 00:33:46,304 Speaker 1: this sort of stuff, but in that moment, you see 748 00:33:46,304 --> 00:33:50,304 Speaker 1: her wealthy with her family, haffy, and also completely healthy. 749 00:33:50,624 --> 00:33:54,784 Speaker 1: So she's in this wonderful safe space despite what she's done. 750 00:33:54,904 --> 00:33:57,744 Speaker 1: And then you see how her actions have affected all 751 00:33:57,784 --> 00:34:00,624 Speaker 1: the people around her and how they're worse off because 752 00:34:00,664 --> 00:34:02,944 Speaker 1: they were trapped up in her lives. So you see 753 00:34:02,984 --> 00:34:05,504 Speaker 1: Chanelle who has got justice in a way because she 754 00:34:05,544 --> 00:34:07,304 Speaker 1: wanted to out Bell, but at the end of the day, 755 00:34:07,424 --> 00:34:11,104 Speaker 1: she's still feeling very guilty about not being there for 756 00:34:11,144 --> 00:34:12,784 Speaker 1: her best friend and then choices her best. 757 00:34:12,624 --> 00:34:15,584 Speaker 2: Friend died, plus like the woman who like she spent 758 00:34:15,664 --> 00:34:17,264 Speaker 2: in the house where it's like twenty. 759 00:34:17,064 --> 00:34:19,384 Speaker 1: Four seven exactly, So she's mourning the death of these 760 00:34:19,384 --> 00:34:21,624 Speaker 1: people and feeling like she'll never get that back. You 761 00:34:21,624 --> 00:34:25,584 Speaker 1: see Lucy going back into more traditional cancer treat Remember, 762 00:34:25,584 --> 00:34:27,264 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, she still has cancer 763 00:34:27,344 --> 00:34:29,864 Speaker 1: and they reallyave you hanging on what happens to her, 764 00:34:30,064 --> 00:34:32,584 Speaker 1: and then Miller flashes to her empty house and back 765 00:34:32,624 --> 00:34:35,064 Speaker 1: to her funeral scene, and so you're just left with 766 00:34:35,144 --> 00:34:39,184 Speaker 1: this this moment that her dad by himself. So every 767 00:34:39,224 --> 00:34:41,384 Speaker 1: other story, I mean, the series is meant to be 768 00:34:41,424 --> 00:34:44,064 Speaker 1: this big takedown of Bell Gibson also we thought going in, 769 00:34:44,144 --> 00:34:46,264 Speaker 1: but what it really is is showing how at the 770 00:34:46,344 --> 00:34:47,944 Speaker 1: end of the day she can come out a little 771 00:34:47,984 --> 00:34:50,864 Speaker 1: bit on top, and every single person around her has 772 00:34:50,904 --> 00:34:54,664 Speaker 1: been touched by death or ill health or being let down. 773 00:34:54,784 --> 00:34:57,744 Speaker 1: So ah, I guess it goes to show like I 774 00:34:57,784 --> 00:34:58,784 Speaker 1: don't know it while that. 775 00:34:58,864 --> 00:35:01,904 Speaker 2: It's like we talked about such sad themes throughout the show, 776 00:35:01,944 --> 00:35:04,024 Speaker 2: but it wasn't a sad show. Yeah, Like it was 777 00:35:04,104 --> 00:35:07,464 Speaker 2: quite fast paced and like upbeat, because every time I 778 00:35:07,544 --> 00:35:09,624 Speaker 2: recommended it to someone after I told them, no, it's 779 00:35:09,664 --> 00:35:13,304 Speaker 2: not mel Gibson and the backs and they were all like oh, 780 00:35:13,344 --> 00:35:15,624 Speaker 2: and I'm like, no, it's not like that. Like it's 781 00:35:15,664 --> 00:35:18,504 Speaker 2: not like a really sad story of like people who like, 782 00:35:18,704 --> 00:35:22,024 Speaker 2: I mean, some parts are sad, but it's actually such 783 00:35:22,024 --> 00:35:25,984 Speaker 2: a really good explainer. It reminded me of the ANNADELVI. Yeah, 784 00:35:26,144 --> 00:35:28,384 Speaker 2: it reminded me of that kind of format, like very 785 00:35:28,384 --> 00:35:30,704 Speaker 2: fast paced, like you don't really sit in your feelings 786 00:35:30,704 --> 00:35:31,264 Speaker 2: for too long. 787 00:35:31,344 --> 00:35:33,264 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean my only critique at the start that 788 00:35:33,304 --> 00:35:36,144 Speaker 1: there was sometimes too many storylines and too much happening, 789 00:35:36,344 --> 00:35:38,264 Speaker 1: But I felt at the end it probably needed that 790 00:35:38,304 --> 00:35:41,304 Speaker 1: many characters and storylines to justify the overall message that 791 00:35:41,344 --> 00:35:44,504 Speaker 1: they were trying to send. Also banging soundtrack with Toxic 792 00:35:44,584 --> 00:35:48,184 Speaker 1: and Vampire all shows that were like alluding to her behavior, 793 00:35:48,544 --> 00:35:51,384 Speaker 1: playing as like remixes or like songs throughout the show. 794 00:35:51,464 --> 00:35:54,944 Speaker 1: So yeah, overall, very incredible, And I think also the 795 00:35:54,984 --> 00:35:57,064 Speaker 1: big conversation starter has come out of this is that 796 00:35:57,104 --> 00:35:59,384 Speaker 1: so many people keep saying things like, oh, thank god, 797 00:35:59,384 --> 00:36:01,664 Speaker 1: that wouldn't happen now, And I just think, have you 798 00:36:01,704 --> 00:36:02,104 Speaker 1: not been on. 799 00:36:02,064 --> 00:36:03,024 Speaker 2: TikTok oh girl? 800 00:36:03,304 --> 00:36:06,744 Speaker 1: It was absolutely happened now. Like I think maybe a 801 00:36:06,744 --> 00:36:09,624 Speaker 1: lot of traditional book publishers and places like that, just 802 00:36:09,664 --> 00:36:11,824 Speaker 1: because they're so aware of the Bell Gibson story and 803 00:36:11,864 --> 00:36:14,304 Speaker 1: other stories that have happened, might sac check a book 804 00:36:14,504 --> 00:36:17,424 Speaker 1: more so now. But I think it's still very possible 805 00:36:17,424 --> 00:36:19,824 Speaker 1: for someone to build a platform like this because people 806 00:36:19,864 --> 00:36:21,624 Speaker 1: are still looking for hope in that same PJ. 807 00:36:21,784 --> 00:36:23,504 Speaker 2: It's got to work overtime for this one. 808 00:36:23,864 --> 00:36:26,184 Speaker 1: Well, Apple Side of Vinegar. It's on Netflix if you 809 00:36:26,184 --> 00:36:27,624 Speaker 1: haven't watched it. But if you come this far and 810 00:36:27,664 --> 00:36:29,904 Speaker 1: you haven't watched it, that's come on. 811 00:36:30,024 --> 00:36:32,864 Speaker 2: Binge the whole thing. You can do it. Thank you 812 00:36:32,904 --> 00:36:35,064 Speaker 2: so much for listening to the Spill today. If you 813 00:36:35,104 --> 00:36:37,024 Speaker 2: want more from us, you can always find us on 814 00:36:37,064 --> 00:36:40,024 Speaker 2: our Instagram at the Spill Podcast. We post a lot 815 00:36:40,064 --> 00:36:42,064 Speaker 2: on there, give us a follow, and also jump into 816 00:36:42,064 --> 00:36:44,224 Speaker 2: our dms if there's something that you want us to 817 00:36:44,224 --> 00:36:47,024 Speaker 2: talk about. The Spill is produced by Kimberlee Bradish with 818 00:36:47,144 --> 00:36:49,264 Speaker 2: sound production by Scott Stronik and we'll be back here 819 00:36:49,304 --> 00:36:51,264 Speaker 2: in your podcast feed at three pm on Monday. 820 00:36:51,464 --> 00:36:57,704 Speaker 1: Bye bye, lan It