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Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Bondi Sands Everyday Skincare.

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Speaker 2: So I think collaborating and connecting with like minded people

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Speaker 2: is really really helpful. So instead of being competitive, it's like, well,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of room for us. You realize that

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Speaker 2: your struggles aren't unique. I think a lot of us

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Speaker 2: tend to fixate there is the one partner and there

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Speaker 2: is the one job for me. But I don't think

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Speaker 2: that's the case. I think there's many possible ones and

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Speaker 2: it's not like there is one part that you have

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Speaker 2: to somehow fall into. There are many parts that can

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Speaker 2: lead to happiness.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the sees the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy

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Speaker 1: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what

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Speaker 1: makes the heart seeing.

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Speaker 3: We work, then we.

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Speaker 1: Rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize there's

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Speaker 1: more than one way. So this is a platform to

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Speaker 1: hear and explore the stories of those who found lives.

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Speaker 3: They adore the good, bad and ugly.

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Speaker 1: The best and worst day will bear all the facets

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Speaker 1: of seizing your yay. I'm Sarah Davidson or A spoonful

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Speaker 1: of Sarah, a lawyer turned entrepreneur who swapped the suits

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Speaker 1: and heels to co found matcha Maiden and matcha Milk

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Speaker 1: bar CZA is a series of conversations on finding a

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Speaker 1: life you love and exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy

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Speaker 1: and fulfillment along the way. Welcome back, Lovely neighborhood. I

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Speaker 1: hope you had an amazing Easter break, and thank you

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Speaker 1: so much to everyone who' submitted questions for our very

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Speaker 1: belated birthday Q and A episode. As you can hear,

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Speaker 1: I recovered from the spicy cough, but somehow caught a

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Speaker 1: cold straight after and still sound a little bit like

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Speaker 1: a man, so we delayed it again, which means if

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Speaker 1: you have any extra questions or good news stories for

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Speaker 1: the episode, please shoot them over this week and we'll

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Speaker 1: eventually get round to recording it. In the meantime, I've

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Speaker 1: got a zinger today for you that are recorded when

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Speaker 1: I sounded much nicer than this, from someone I've admired

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Speaker 1: and learned from for a while now and whose brain

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Speaker 1: I feel very lucky to pick. Today's guest is the

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Speaker 1: perfect example of the many things at school that we

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Speaker 1: often felt like would never find news in real life,

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Speaker 1: but who has proven that wrong. Bringing science to the

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Speaker 1: wild world of beauty. You may know her as lab muffin,

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Speaker 1: but Michelle Wong is far from a lab rat, bringing

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Speaker 1: her credentials ie a chemistry PhD, to explain what works

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Speaker 1: and what doesn't in the world of beauty and cosmetics.

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Speaker 1: Think of all the intimidating ingredient names and jargon in

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Speaker 1: the beauty world, and Michelle has probably demystified it in

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Speaker 1: an approachable, easy to understand way in one of her

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Speaker 1: videos or posts, gaining her a booming audience around the world.

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Speaker 1: Michelle is also a fellow lover of Ozzie's success story.

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Speaker 1: Bondi Sans and we run through some of our favorite

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Speaker 1: science backed goodies from the new everyday skincare range. I

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Speaker 1: hope you all learn as much and enjoy this one

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Speaker 1: as much as I did. Michelle, Welcome to Cca.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 3: I am such a big fan.

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Speaker 1: I think I've already just found gold over you, and

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Speaker 1: let you know that I've been spending the last couple

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Speaker 1: of days. I've been in isolation for seven days before

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Speaker 1: recording this, and I've been balls deep in your incredible videos,

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Speaker 1: just having my mind blown by the science of beauty.

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Speaker 3: You are incredible.

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Speaker 2: Thank you that's really nice to hear. And also I

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Speaker 2: have terrible imposter syndrome like most people. I think our

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Speaker 2: age that is really lovely to Oh.

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Speaker 1: We will definitely get into that, and especially given how

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Speaker 1: incredibly knowledgeable you are, and I just it's always surprising,

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Speaker 1: even though it's not surprising when someone else has it,

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Speaker 1: someone who you think you hold in such high esteem

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Speaker 1: and who you think is so qualified and so infinitely

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Speaker 1: able to do the things that they do, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, I feel like it's surprising how rife

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Speaker 1: it is and how many of us it affects. So

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Speaker 1: I think we should definitely get into that. That's a

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Speaker 1: big part of this show. But before we kick off,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you've kind of already done it by starting

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Speaker 1: with that, but I start every episode with a little

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Speaker 1: ice breaker just to kind of, you know, help shed

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Speaker 1: that really glossy surface that we sometimes have throughout perceived

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Speaker 1: identities in the media on social media. And you know,

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Speaker 1: anyone who has a PhD, I should have introduced you

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Speaker 1: as doctor Michelle. I feel like a lot of people

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Speaker 1: who have PhD for not to use doctor. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to use it because I think it's so cool. So

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Speaker 1: it's very easy to think that you are, you know,

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Speaker 1: infallible and up on a pedestal. What is something really

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Speaker 1: relatable about you or the most down to earth thing

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Speaker 1: about you?

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Speaker 2: Well, I guess it is like probably the impulse syndrome.

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Speaker 2: Like anytime anyone asked me a question, like my first

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Speaker 2: thought is did I get it wrong? I just assume

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Speaker 2: my wrong and then like it takes me like a

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Speaker 2: few minutes ago, No way, no, no, no, I did

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Speaker 2: actually think this through and agonize over this for three

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Speaker 2: hours before I posted it.

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Speaker 3: Right, Okay, so we all got we all have it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one hand, it does make us like produce better

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Speaker 2: content because we are so perfectionist. But at the same

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Speaker 2: time it is not great for us as well. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure we'll get into that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I actually always well, particularly over the past couple of years,

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Speaker 1: I used to think because I had a big career change,

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Speaker 1: I used to think that as I got more you know,

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Speaker 1: further into and more accomplished or had more practice at

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Speaker 1: this new career path, that eventually the marker of success

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Speaker 1: would when the self doubt disappeared altogether. So I was

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Speaker 1: kind of waiting for that day to happen. But now

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Speaker 1: I've realized, as long as it doesn't topple you, it's

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Speaker 1: actually it's not a bad sign that you're not complacent,

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Speaker 1: you know. It's like kind of a good keeps you

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Speaker 1: on your toes and it shows you that you're invested

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Speaker 1: in doing a good job. So maybe it's not that

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Speaker 1: we want it to disappear altogether. It's just that we

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Speaker 1: want to learn how to channel it better or how

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Speaker 1: to push it aside, rather than waking up one day

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Speaker 1: like I kind of now think if i wake up

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Speaker 1: before a podcast like this, for example, and I'm not nervous,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'm too comfortable, Like maybe I should be a

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Speaker 1: tiny bit nervous or a tiny bit worried about just

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Speaker 1: invested in doing a good job.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it does help a little bit. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: at the same time, sometimes like we just end up

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Speaker 2: a bit too anxious. Yeah, you need to recognize that

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Speaker 2: little good stage, that like little happy medium.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that little pocket of good self doubt and can

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Speaker 1: the rest absolutely so. I don't know if you've listened

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Speaker 1: to the show before, but the first section of the

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Speaker 1: show is something I love doing, is going back to

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Speaker 1: the very beginning of people's journeys. The first section is

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Speaker 1: called your WAYTA and that's because I think often people

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Speaker 1: walk into your life at the chapter that you're in

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Speaker 1: now and see you incredibly accomplished, with such direction and

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Speaker 1: clarity around what you're passionate about. And you know, cosmetic

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Speaker 1: chemistry of all things is already on its face, combining

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Speaker 1: two worlds that don't automatically come to mind as things

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Speaker 1: that go together. But I think we often skip through

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Speaker 1: all the chapters that it took you to get there

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Speaker 1: and to figure out all those jigs or puzzle pieces.

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Speaker 1: And I like to remind people that no one really

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Speaker 1: woke up having it all together and knowing where they

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Speaker 1: were going to end up. So can you take us

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Speaker 1: all the way back to young Vichelle what you were

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Speaker 1: like as a child, you know, your first jobs or

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Speaker 1: your first ideas of who and what you wanted to be.

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Speaker 2: I think I was a quiet, nerdy child. I had

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Speaker 2: typical kind of tiger parents. I just had tutoring all

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Speaker 2: the time. And yeah, eventually I became pretty rebellious as

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Speaker 2: a teenager, partly because of that. I was a nerd

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Speaker 2: and I was quite competitive, so I was still you know,

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Speaker 2: doing really well at school while being really rebellious, which.

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Speaker 3: Great combo.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just stumped my parents, I think, because it

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Speaker 2: was like, she's doing really well, but she's also really annoying.

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Speaker 3: How do we cope with this situation? Yeah, so I think.

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Speaker 2: Sort of like a typical Asian child with Asian tiger parents.

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Speaker 2: They wanted me to be a doctor, a lawyer, or

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Speaker 2: an accountant. They actually weren't super keen on the doctor

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Speaker 2: part because they're nurses.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I had a lot of pressure to do

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Speaker 2: that sort of thing, and I went to a school

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Speaker 2: where everyone became doctors and lawyers. So being a bit

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Speaker 2: of a rebel, I actually wanted to be like a

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Speaker 2: journalist or a novelist.

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Speaker 3: Or humanities no way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was really into history. But I still did

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Speaker 2: one little bit of chemistry. And the reason I got

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Speaker 2: into chemistry was actually again not you know, the sort

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Speaker 2: of path you would think, but one of my friends

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Speaker 2: went to this after school chemistry class and so ashlely

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Speaker 2: was lunchtime and so it was more of a social event.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, and we ended up like learning chemistry, and

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Speaker 2: because I went to that class for so long, I

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Speaker 2: ended up getting good at chemistry. Even though I wasn't

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Speaker 2: really naturally into chemistry, and I think that was sort

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Speaker 2: of helpful because I've always loved teaching, and if you're

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Speaker 2: really crap at something and you had to work hard

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Speaker 2: to become good at it, you become a much better

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Speaker 2: teacher of that particular subject because you've gone down all

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Speaker 2: the wrong rabbit holes. It didn't come naturally to you.

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Speaker 2: You can remember the path you took, right.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's so interesting. So I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you know, in my background, I was adopted by

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Speaker 1: a Caucasian family, so I don't have the tiger parent experience,

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Speaker 1: which always makes it really interesting because I think some

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Speaker 1: people assume I went into law because of that, but

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Speaker 1: I didn't. And then hearing about that experience, it's one

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Speaker 1: of the things that I, you know, think, particularly for

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Speaker 1: women in the science now, is that they're often dissuaded

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Speaker 1: from scientific careers, especially back at school for children of

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Speaker 1: tiger parents, that's not necessarily the case. Often you're kind

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Speaker 1: of pushed towards the sciences, towards medicine and chemistry. But

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Speaker 1: it's so interesting that even back at school that wasn't

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Speaker 1: your pathway. It wasn't a conventional, like I was made

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Speaker 1: to do chemistry and then I loved chemistry, Like it

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Speaker 1: wasn't that straightforward. It was a lunch club of all

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Speaker 1: things that got you interested in it. Yeah, I feel

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Speaker 1: like chemistry is one of those subjects at school that

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Speaker 1: you know when whenever we sort of say, oh, nothing I.

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Speaker 3: Learn here will ever be relevant in real life.

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Speaker 1: That's often I think what we say about chemistry of

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Speaker 1: all subjects, but you've obviously gone on to prove that

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Speaker 1: very wrong. What about that subject that you initially, you know,

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Speaker 1: weren't pulled to ended up being so interesting to you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're right, Like it's a really good point.

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Speaker 2: A lot of girls especially don't really see sciences. It's

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Speaker 2: something that's interesting because a lot of the examples they

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Speaker 2: give are kind of male tinged. A lot the time

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Speaker 2: they talk about you know, planes and stars and space

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Speaker 2: and yeah, it's just not stuff like it's quite gender coded.

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Speaker 2: And I've actually got some lecturers who are lecturing chemistry

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Speaker 2: now and they've like, like they were friends with me

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Speaker 2: and my PhD, and they've email me saying, do you

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Speaker 2: have any examples, because like I want to get rid

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Speaker 2: of some of this star stuff.

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Speaker 3: That's so interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it is definitely the fault of the educators.

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Speaker 2: I think partly that we don't see their applicability in

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Speaker 2: our everyday lives. But I think some of the things

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Speaker 2: that really interested me was like, as a child, I

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Speaker 2: used to stare at the window a lot, so I

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Speaker 2: would notice little things and be like, oh, that's interesting,

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Speaker 2: Like you know how rain drops merge on a window? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: in the car that sort of thing. And chemistry explains that.

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Speaker 2: Chemistry explains all these little things that you notice, like

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Speaker 2: why does ice float on water? Why do you have

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Speaker 2: condensation on the outside of the cold glass? Why is

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Speaker 2: it if you have a head and you take a

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Speaker 2: panadol pill, why does the panadol know to go to

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Speaker 2: your head? That sort of thing? And so I found

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Speaker 2: that bit really fascinating about chemistry. Just there are things

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Speaker 2: that are relevant everyday life, even though it takes you

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Speaker 2: a while to find it because they don't really target

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Speaker 2: that now when you're in school, it's mostly.

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Speaker 1: Mas Yes, Oh my god, that's so interesting. Like I

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Speaker 1: always think about the panadol thing.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, how does it know where to go? How

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Speaker 3: are you doing this? This is so cool?

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Speaker 1: I think there are so many people in the show

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Speaker 1: who reflect back on school, and it's often like a

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Speaker 1: particular teacher or a particular person that just explained it

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Speaker 1: in a different way or that just gave you a

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Speaker 1: different perspective on how chemistry could actually apply in real life.

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Speaker 3: And similarly, I.

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Speaker 1: Think the increased visibility of women in sciences and the

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Speaker 1: less male tinged career paths, the increased visibility of that

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Speaker 1: for younger women is what's making them more excited because

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Speaker 1: they just see one person or one story, Which makes

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Speaker 1: me so excited to have you on the show because

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Speaker 1: I feel like you're already doing that for so many

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Speaker 1: women by showing the really really cool ways that you

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Speaker 1: can end up using it once you did realize that

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Speaker 1: level of interest. So converting that into an actual career

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Speaker 1: path in practice is probably one of the biggest hurdles.

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Speaker 1: Like it's one thing to kind of see, oh cool,

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Speaker 1: the panetl thing, oh cool, the window thing, but obviously

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Speaker 1: there is a study path involved to get there, but

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Speaker 1: also then finding the job. You know, from a young

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Speaker 1: school kid who often sees like three jobs that exist

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Speaker 1: and doesn't know that there's all these gray areas in between,

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Speaker 1: how did you choose your degree from that and then

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Speaker 1: kind of forge the pathway into where you are now.

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Speaker 2: There was a lot of getting lucky and sort of

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Speaker 2: like being in something and realizing I didn't want to

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Speaker 2: do particular things, so I did sort of fall into it.

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Speaker 2: So out of high school, I graduated and I didn't

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Speaker 2: know what I wanted to do with my life as usual,

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Speaker 2: and most of my friends did law because like the

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Speaker 2: ones who were into humanities did law, so I also

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Speaker 2: did law, and in Sydney have to pretty much choose

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Speaker 2: a second degree to do with law. And it was

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Speaker 2: really just well, what degrees can I combine with it? Well,

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Speaker 2: I hate money, I don't hate I love money, Please

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Speaker 2: give me money, but I don't like dealing with money,

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Speaker 2: So commerce is out. Science seemed more useful than arts,

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Speaker 2: which in reality it's not really, but yeah, it just

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Speaker 2: sounded a bit more useful. So little seventeen year old

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Speaker 2: Michelle was just like, yeah, that sounds that sounds good.

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Speaker 2: I'll just do that without looking into it. And then

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Speaker 2: I started studying science and law. I loved studying both

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Speaker 2: of them. Partly why I chose science as well is

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Speaker 2: because I did that lunch club thing. I actually got

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Speaker 2: to skip first year chemistry, so amazy I could. I

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Speaker 2: decided not to. I was like, well, if I've loved

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Speaker 2: you already, I may as well just like sleep through

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Speaker 2: lectures and ace it.

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Speaker 3: Easy distution.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So it was like a sort of pragmatic slash

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Speaker 2: lazy route. I do tend to go for like the

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Speaker 2: path of least resistance a lot of the time.

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Speaker 1: PhD student, I don't know about that, but yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: not doing yourself justice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe the PhD wasn't the part of the police resistance. Said, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so I chose science and law. I studied them both.

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Speaker 2: I loved studying both. But then I worked in a

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Speaker 2: law firm as a paralegal for a bit and I've

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Speaker 2: discovered I really didn't like it.

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Speaker 3: I hear that, girl, I hear that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I was quite lucky that I discovered it at

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Speaker 2: the paralegal stage and decided to like look for a

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Speaker 2: way out. I just realized I had a big issue

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Speaker 2: with trying to help a client that I disagreed with morally. Like,

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Speaker 2: I know that in law, you get taught you are

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Speaker 2: just an advocate, Like you advocate for whatever client and

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Speaker 2: then the court decides and you know, everyone deserves the

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Speaker 2: best representation they have and then it works out in

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Speaker 2: the end. But yeah, just morally, it just didn't quite

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Speaker 2: work for me, which was something I didn't realize I

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Speaker 2: had a problem with until I was in that situation.

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Speaker 2: It didn't help that the client at that point was

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Speaker 2: a tobacco company.

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Speaker 3: So wasn't that It.

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Speaker 2: Really wasn't the easiest thing to compartmentalize for me personally. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So I ended up doing science and dropping the law,

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Speaker 2: and again, at the end of my degree, I didn't

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Speaker 2: really know what I wanted to do. I did a

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Speaker 2: project for my honors which I found really interesting and

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Speaker 2: that could be carried on to a PhD. So I

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Speaker 2: just decided to do that. And again a lot of

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Speaker 2: my friends were doing a PhD. So I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: even if I don't know what I'm doing, I'll just

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Speaker 2: see what they're doing and then maybe that will give

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Speaker 2: me an idea. Yes, I sort of fell into it.

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Speaker 2: It was like a combination of passion and just falling

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Speaker 2: into what I ended up doing.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 1: So this is what I love about this show so much,

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Speaker 1: because if you walked into your life now, you could

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Speaker 1: easily assume passionate chemist, wanted to be a chemist, you know,

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Speaker 1: was fascinated by test tubes by the time she was

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Speaker 1: in grade five. Like, you know, you could so easily

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Speaker 1: assume that you wouldn't necessarily assume law degree or that

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Speaker 1: even like had worked in law for a little while.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's just so many ways that I love

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Speaker 1: reflecting back on the moment of even deciding what degree

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Speaker 1: you did, and you know, literally often it's just because

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I probably should do that, Like that

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Speaker 1: sounds cool, Like that's why I.

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Speaker 3: Chose law, arts because I was like, well, law because.

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Speaker 1: You know, I hate blood, not going to do medicine,

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Speaker 1: so like, prop should do law because I went to

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Speaker 1: a similar school to you. And then arts because like,

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Speaker 1: well I don't want to do straight law, and like

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Speaker 1: I kind of want to travel.

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Speaker 3: And do languages.

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Speaker 1: So you know, like the way we make our decisions

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Speaker 1: in life is just so often so crazy, not necessarily

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Speaker 1: because we have direction or clarity or anything, but it

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Speaker 1: still sometimes can lead you to the right place.

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Speaker 3: And I think it's so important to remind people.

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Speaker 1: That, like so much of the decision making and even

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Speaker 1: like incredibly successful and driven and directed people's lives is

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Speaker 1: just like a process of elimination rather than actively choosing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's also quite reassuring as well. I

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Speaker 2: think because I think the fact that a lot of

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Speaker 2: us just accidentally fell into our careers sort of shows

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Speaker 2: that for every person, there's probably like a good bunch

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Speaker 2: of great careers out there that you can just end

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Speaker 2: up in. I think a lot of us tend to fixate.

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Speaker 2: It's also happens in relationships too. We fixate there is

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Speaker 2: the one, there is the one partner, and there is

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Speaker 2: the one job for me. But I don't think that's

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Speaker 2: the case. I think there's many possible ones, and a

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Speaker 2: lot of people like who are very happy in their

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Speaker 2: jobs have just found one of the ones. And I

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Speaker 2: think that hopefully is a really reassuring thing for people

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Speaker 2: who don't know what they're doing, because yeah, it's not

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Speaker 2: like there is one path that you have to somehow

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Speaker 2: fall into. There are many parts that can lead to happiness.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I feel like that's the SoundBite for

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Speaker 1: the whole podcast. Thank you very much, Michelle. You can

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Speaker 1: leave now. It's the most amazing interview anyway ever. But no,

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Speaker 1: that's that's exactly what I try and show, especially with

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Speaker 1: this section the Wagta, that like, no one gets where

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Speaker 1: they get to you in a straight line. But also

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Speaker 1: even once they've got to where they've gotten to, that

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that's the last one that they'll have. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they can be multiple ones kind of along the way.

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Speaker 1: So before we move on, I'd love to focus on

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Speaker 1: the PhD because I also think that in this day

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Speaker 1: and age, it is wonderful that the landscape has been

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Speaker 1: very democratized. You can start businesses, you can make career

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Speaker 1: jumps without necessarily having studied, you know, in a linear

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Speaker 1: fashion in the way that perhaps you did have to

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Speaker 1: you know, some generations ago, or maybe even just some

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Speaker 1: years ago. And I think maybe that has pushed us

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Speaker 1: away from focusing on the academic pathway when it can

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Speaker 1: still be a really incredibly enriching, enlightening and important experience.

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Speaker 1: So what was a PhD like for you? Firstly, what

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Speaker 1: was your thesis, what didn't involve and how has it

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Speaker 1: benefited you in ways that maybe you didn't expect or

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Speaker 1: ways that you did expect.

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Speaker 2: So my project was on medicinal and super molecular chemistry. Basically,

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Speaker 2: what I was making was structures called cyclic papt ties.

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Speaker 2: These are like little rings based on amino acids, and

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Speaker 2: because they're based on amino acids, they're very nat for

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Speaker 2: your body, which is important when you're taking a drug

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Speaker 2: because a lot of drugs have unpleasant side effects. But

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Speaker 2: if it's quite natural, then your body can break it

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Speaker 2: down into things that your body is fine with, and

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Speaker 2: so it was like a path to less toxic medicines.

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Speaker 2: It was also cool because the little rings are good

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Speaker 2: at finding particular things and so they can interact with

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Speaker 2: different parts of your body in very interesting ways. So

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Speaker 2: there were things like applications like possible cancer drugs, possible

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Speaker 2: hormones as well. Yeah, so I was mostly looking at

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Speaker 2: making these rings and then trying to get them to

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Speaker 2: do things I wanted. So in reality, what that kind

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Speaker 2: of looks like is you turn off have the lab

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Speaker 2: every day and you pour a lot of things into

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Speaker 2: other things, and then you have to move a lot

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Speaker 2: of test us from right to.

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Speaker 3: Left amazing, and.

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Speaker 2: You go to a machine sometimes and you also go

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Speaker 2: there and you wait for the line to go up,

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Speaker 2: and when it goes up, you have to like rush

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Speaker 2: and get a test tube under a particular piece of

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Speaker 2: metal and then collect some stuff and then when the

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Speaker 2: line goes down, you pull it away. So yeah, in

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Speaker 2: the day to day is quite boring, even though it

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Speaker 2: gets to a very interesting place. Yeah. So that's what

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Speaker 2: a chemistry PHG typically looks like. There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: moving things around.

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Speaker 1: I love that so much, amazing. I mean, I love it.

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Speaker 1: You're being real about it.

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Speaker 3: I love it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So, in terms of where you go from a PhD,

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of the time when you're in

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Speaker 2: the PhD, you don't really see much of a career

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Speaker 2: path outside of academia, which makes sense because everyone you're

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Speaker 2: surrounded with is in academia and has found a good

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Speaker 2: place in academia and they either happy about it, or

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Speaker 2: if they're trying to leave academia, they're not going to

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Speaker 2: tell everyone about it. So it's a bit of a

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Speaker 2: narrow sort of view, and I think a lot of

438
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 2: PhD students are stuck in that view. So there are

439
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,400
Speaker 2: actually a few websites and podcasts now where it's all

440
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,360
Speaker 2: just focused on careers for PhDs outside of academia.

441
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:54,119
Speaker 3: Wow.

442
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think the main thing about doing a

443
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 2: PhD that tends to help is that you develop analytical

444
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 2: skills and lots of critical thinking, problem solving skills which

445
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,960
Speaker 2: are very transferable to lots of different things. So some

446
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,960
Speaker 2: of the typical career paths out of a PhD apart

447
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:17,359
Speaker 2: from academia, management, consulting, patient law, yeah, those are the

448
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,240
Speaker 2: typical ones. Mine is very non typical, earthly.

449
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Okay, so tell us about that then.

450
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,399
Speaker 1: I mean, I also think if anyone's listening and is

451
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:32,120
Speaker 1: interested in those kind of resources for someone who might

452
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,879
Speaker 1: be in a PhD or has finished a PhD and

453
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 1: is looking for a pathway, then I'm sure I can

454
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 1: get Michelle to share those and I'll pop them in

455
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,720
Speaker 1: the show notes. But in terms of your a typical

456
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 1: way out of it, this makes me so excited. As

457
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 1: I mentioned, like the fusion of two seemingly not the

458
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 1: most straightforwardly related areas. How does one get into cosmetic chemistry?

459
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 2: So my path into it was when I was doing

460
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 2: my PhD. I'll sit around a lab waiting on experiments,

461
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 2: and so I was also looking at how to improve

462
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,919
Speaker 2: my skin at that point. So I was looking up

463
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 2: different skincare products and there just wasn't very much on

464
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 2: the Internet about the science behind skincare products at the time,

465
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 2: this was twenty eleven, and so I started looking into it.

466
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,239
Speaker 2: And because I was doing medicinal chemistry, a lot of

467
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,680
Speaker 2: my PHG work was looking at how different things interacted

468
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 2: with the body, how different drugs worked, and so with

469
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,159
Speaker 2: skincare sort of very similar. It's like, how does this

470
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 2: ingredient interact with your skin? And I wasn't finding that information.

471
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 2: So I was going deep into journal articles and like

472
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 2: the academic research behind these ingredients, and I realized a

473
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 2: lot of people probably had the same questions and just

474
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 2: couldn't find this stuff because they didn't have access to

475
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,719
Speaker 2: these papers, or if they did, they couldn't understand what

476
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 2: was going on. So I started writing a blog with

477
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 2: that sort of info in it, but translated to something

478
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 2: that everyone could understand. So that was part of it.

479
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 2: Another part of it was I was in a few

480
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 2: skincare groups and a lot of people would be asking

481
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 2: questions about, like, AH sulfate's really toxic? Should I be

482
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 2: using parabins in my skincare? And I would like type

483
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 2: long replies to people, and I was like, this is

484
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 2: very inefficient. If I have it all on a blog,

485
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 2: then I can just paste the link and I don't

486
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 2: have to like rewrite a new thing for every person.

487
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 2: So that was also part of my I guess being

488
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:33,479
Speaker 2: lazy being efficient, efficient efficiency, my rebranding of lazy.

489
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that is so cool that it literally

490
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,479
Speaker 1: just came out of like a personal journey combined with

491
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 1: just you know, I feel like sometimes ideas drop on you,

492
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: not because you were looking for the next big idea

493
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 1: or the next big pathway, but because you were literally

494
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: sitting there trying to solve a problem for yourself and

495
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 1: then thought, oh, like, if I'm sitting here thinking that,

496
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: obviously quite a few other people might be sitting there

497
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 1: thinking that, and then turn it into like a full

498
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 1: career and it makes so much sense, Like obviously I

499
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: think one of the things I did a mini series

500
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: on women in science and had never really connected Obviously

501
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: it makes sense now, but had never connected that, like

502
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: to make beauty products, there needs to be science, Like

503
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: science is related to beauty intimately, so then of course

504
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 1: going backwards that you know, we would also want the

505
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,959
Speaker 1: scientific explanation behind why some things work or why some

506
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 1: things don't. And I think it's just so amazing that

507
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: you've realized it and did something with that information, Like

508
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 1: I think you started blab muffin when blogs weren't like,

509
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: were so new.

510
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:36,880
Speaker 3: Was that ten years ago?

511
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. I think it's ten years and five

512
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 2: months now.

513
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 3: Congratulation, Oh my gosh.

514
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: So did it just start getting traction or sort of

515
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: how did it become now what you actually do?

516
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 2: So I think back then, yeah, blogs were a sort

517
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 2: of niche thing, but there was like a very small

518
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 2: intimate blogging community, which was great. We would all like

519
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 2: go around and comment on each other's blogs. And this

520
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 2: wasn't like an algorithm boosting thing because back then there

521
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 2: weren't these social media algorithms. It was really just community.

522
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 2: It was really just supporting each other and encouraging each

523
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 2: other to keep posting. So it was really lovely. And

524
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 2: then of course you would link to other people's blogs

525
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 2: when they were interesting and when they were relevant, and

526
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 2: so I built a bit of traction with that, and

527
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 2: a lot of Facebook groups people would be sharing my

528
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 2: work because it was quite unique, and yeah, there just

529
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,719
Speaker 2: wasn't really that much info. So it was actually kind

530
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 2: of nice and easier because it was a lot easier

531
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 2: to develop your own niche and be the only one

532
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 2: in that niche. Back then, around twenty fourteen was when

533
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 2: Instagram got really big, and I started using Instagram to

534
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 2: just promote my blog posts, and then I realized Instagram

535
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 2: itself was really a whole niche. This was back in

536
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 2: the days when people would just post like really old

537
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 2: school looking photos of like their toast.

538
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 3: Save I was there.

539
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: I was the toast, but I'd have to toast in

540
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: like a crazy filter with like a with a corner.

541
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: Oh the glory days.

542
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 3: Oh man.

543
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, I started post promoting my blog on that,

544
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 2: and then I started making post just for Instagram, and

545
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 2: I developed a following from that, just like making little

546
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,199
Speaker 2: bite sized nuggets of information for people who weren't going

547
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 2: to read a whole blog post. And I think there

548
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 2: was a boom time for like skincare signs around I

549
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 2: think twenty seventeen eighteen when The Ordinary launched. And the

550
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 2: Ordinary is a brand that's very budget friendly, and I

551
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 2: actually have one here. It's like very budget friendly and

552
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 2: they actually have the names of their products on the label,

553
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 2: so you can't just buy, you know, anti aging serum.

554
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 2: You have to buy ethylated a scorbic acid fifteen percent

555
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 2: solution so that was when people started going, well, I

556
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 2: don't know what this is, but it's all ten dollars,

557
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 2: and now I want to know which ten dollar things

558
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 2: to buy. And I think that's when it really got

559
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 2: really popular. And around that time I also started a

560
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 2: YouTube channel because I kind of got sick of like

561
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 2: drawing fifteen drawings to try to show how something worked,

562
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 2: and I could like just hold up some molecules and

563
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 2: like make them like smash into each other. So yeah,

564
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 2: I think everything sort of developed quite organically. It was

565
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 2: just like when I got limited by one medium, I

566
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 2: just kind of started looking into another thing. I think

567
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 2: it's also partly because I get bored quite easily, and

568
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 2: I really like new things. So when I got bored

569
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 2: of one thing, I started doing more of another thing,

570
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 2: and I kind of, yeah, just progressed from there.

571
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I love that so much.

572
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: And now, I mean, even just on Instagram alone, you

573
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 1: have like three hundred and fifty thousand followers of people

574
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: just soaking up your knowledge and like waiting for the

575
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: next video and requesting things for you to explain, and

576
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 1: like you're really demystifying a whole landscape in such a

577
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: like approachable and interesting, but still it's not dumbing it

578
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: down so much that we can't then like take away

579
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: the science from it either, which I think is also

580
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: really interesting.

581
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 3: It's not just like buy this, don't buy this.

582
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: It's like by this because this ingredient does this, which

583
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 1: is you know, like such an education piece as well.

584
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 3: When did it become a job for you?

585
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 2: So, I guess like when I was doing my PhD. Actually,

586
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 2: all through my life I've really loved teaching. I don't

587
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 2: know why. Maybe I just like having authority. I've always

588
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 2: really loved teaching and I've always found it really rewarding.

589
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 2: So I think most of my jobs in high school

590
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 2: were tutoring. During UNI as well, we're tutoring. And then

591
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 2: when I finished my PhD, I started also teaching. There's

592
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 2: this tutor in college in Sydney that hires mostly PhD

593
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 2: students to teach science and maths and stuff, and so

594
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 2: I started working there and it was amazing. I was

595
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 2: really sad to leave that job actually, but yeah, I

596
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 2: started teaching there while doing lab muffin on the side,

597
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 2: so it was like I would learn skills in that

598
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 2: job and take it to lab muffin and then I'd

599
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 2: learned skills and labmuffin and take it back to that job.

600
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 2: So I think it was around twenty nineteen that was

601
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 2: the breaking point. So I was growing both jobs at once,

602
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 2: and I got in my first sponsorship to go to

603
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 2: France with Biodoma, and I remember, like, I went to France,

604
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 2: I had to skip a particular teaching period, which my

605
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 2: job were really lovely about, and then I went back

606
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 2: and I was telling my boss about like, oh, they

607
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 2: took me in a helicopter. I got to see all

608
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 2: of this stuff. I got to go to this lab.

609
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 2: It was amazing. And he was like, Okay, so when

610
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 2: are you quitting? And I was like what, Like, I

611
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 2: don't want to quit, And he was like, look, so Veritassium,

612
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 2: who is this YouTuber who does a lot of science stuff.

613
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 2: He was actually working at the same workplace as me

614
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 2: and at the same time as my boss, and he

615
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 2: was like, look, I saw what Derek went through when

616
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 2: he was trying to transition to a full time job,

617
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 2: and yeah, like going on an international trip like this

618
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 2: is a sign that you are going to end up

619
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 2: with a lot more on your plate and you should

620
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 2: really think about stepping back.

621
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: So Oh my gosh, that's amazing.

622
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. So my boss was super supportive. He's still super supportive,

623
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 2: and he was like, look, at some point, you're going

624
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 2: to have too much on your plate and you need

625
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 2: to know when to step back, and it'll be healthier

626
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 2: for you. It'll be easier for me because I can

627
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 2: have someone who's there full time. Yeah, let's build a path.

628
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 2: So yeah, that was when I started looking at dropping

629
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 2: back my day job. At that point, I was also

630
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 2: starting to earn enough money to look like it would

631
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 2: be a viable full time job. So yeah, at one

632
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 2: point I just had to make the leap and quit

633
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 2: that job, which I'm still quite sad about because it

634
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 2: was actually the best job of my life until now.

635
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that is such an extraordinary story. And

636
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: lab Muffin is also the cutest name ever. Did that

637
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: just come to you?

638
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: Oh? It was one of those things where I wanted

639
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 2: to start a blog for ages and I just couldn't

640
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 2: think of the name, and I was letting that just

641
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 2: hold me back forever. Yeah, and at some point I

642
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, I'll just make up a name. I'll

643
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 2: use it and then I can change it later. So

644
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 2: it was like I was working in a lab and

645
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 2: my partner at the time called me muffins. I was like,

646
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 2: put them together, kind of goes together. Done, and then

647
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 2: I just never thought up a new name.

648
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 3: So that is because it's so new. That's the best

649
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 3: tame ever Lovely Neighborhood.

650
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: You might remember our incredible guest from episode one hundred

651
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: and fifteen, Blair James, who started out in a town

652
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: of just one thousand people, only to grow Bondi Sands

653
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: to over fifty products in a whopping thirty thousand retailers worldwide.

654
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: Since then, Bondi Sands has launched an incredible everyday skincare

655
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: range packed with Australian botanicals. It has something for every

656
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: skin type, even the sensitive ones like mine. I love

657
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: an Aussie business, as you all know, especially one that

658
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: serves up that glow all within one hundred percent recyclable

659
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: post consumer packaging. And the range itself has options to cleanse, treat, hydrate,

660
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: protect and mask, with packaging colors and shapes to identify

661
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: each one, and there's a skincare quiz online.

662
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 3: To help you choose what's right for you.

663
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: My favorites are the Golden Hour, Brightening vitamin C, serum

664
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: bond Dibabe purifying clay mask, especially with all the travel

665
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: and makeup at work at the moment, and most importantly

666
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: the sunny days hydrating spr fifty plus moisturizer. Suncare is

667
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: so incredibly important for our skin, as we all know.

668
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: I'll pop the link in the show notes for you

669
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: to check it out. I really want to get into,

670
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: particularly around the career, the full time leap and the

671
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: career change. I think that's where the self doubt, conversation

672
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: and comparison and all all those kind of burnout and

673
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: just like the fear, all those kinds of things are

674
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: really important to talk about. But while we've got you here,

675
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: I also feel like it would be remissive me not

676
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: to ask you to just dish the dirt, like along

677
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: the way, what are some of the more practical like

678
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: either things that you think would really surprise us or

679
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: big myths that you've busted, or tions that you get

680
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: asked the most, like what are some of the lab

681
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: muffin top five facts that you think we all should

682
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: know about, like the cosmetic chemistry behind like the things

683
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: we use.

684
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 3: What would they be?

685
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 2: I think the first one would be where sunscreen, which

686
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: I know everyone says in skincare, but yeah, it's true.

687
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 2: Sunscreen is the best anti aging product you can get

688
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 2: because it prevents aging. It prevents the UV that comes

689
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 2: in and makes your skin prematurely age. And of course,

690
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 2: like it's always, prevention is better than cure. So if

691
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 2: you're preventing your natural collagen from degrading, it's much easier

692
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 2: than trying to build it back up later, and it's

693
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 2: much cheaper. There are tons of sunscreens out there now

694
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 2: that are really nice and light and comfortable to wear,

695
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 2: so don't be afraid of sunscreen. It is not all

696
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 2: greasy and heavy. It is actually really great. So yeah,

697
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 2: there are lots of really nice options out there now.

698
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 2: Boder nice sands as one, which is the fragrance free

699
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 2: lotion that is super popular everywhere, because yeah, it's just

700
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 2: really hard to find really light products. There's also so

701
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 2: if you are the brands like Ultra Violet, which is

702
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 2: a bit more upmarket, but it's very light and it

703
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 2: performs really well under makeup. Australian brands have a whole bunch.

704
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 2: There are also lots of Asian sunscreens and European sunscreens

705
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 2: that are really lovely and light, so that's probably the

706
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 2: biggest one. Yeah, there are nice sunscreens out there. Please

707
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,720
Speaker 2: wear sunscreen before you start buying expensive anti aging products.

708
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: Oh my god, the Brando sund sunscreens are my all

709
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: time favorite, all time favorite. But also you recently did

710
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 1: a video on whether you need to wear sunscreen inside

711
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: as well, which I think is really interesting.

712
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think there's this sort of kind of two

713
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 2: extremes with skincare. It's like you either don't wear any

714
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 2: sunscreen or you start wearing sunscreen, and then you start

715
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 2: thinking you have to wear it all the time, like

716
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 2: do I need to wear it to bed in case

717
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 2: shines on me when I wake up? Yeah, which I

718
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: guess is like a legitimate fear, because once you start

719
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 2: getting too skincare, you start hearing all the stuff about

720
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 2: how the sun is a deadly laser and you need

721
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 2: to avoid it at all costs. But I think it's

722
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 2: not quite that bad if you're quite far away from

723
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 2: a window, actually not that much sun that can get

724
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 2: to you. So if you work indoors and you work

725
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 2: next to a really big window, or if there's direct

726
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 2: sun shining on you, then sunscreen is a good idea.

727
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,399
Speaker 2: If there isn't, then you probably don't need to wear

728
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: sunscreen unless you want to wear it as like a

729
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 2: habit so you don't forget to put it on when

730
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 2: you leave the house. There is this new thing in

731
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 2: skincare where everyone's going on about screens and how like

732
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 2: the light from your monitor will age your skin. The

733
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 2: evidence doesn't support that so far. There's no good evidence

734
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 2: that it's intense enough to cause any sort of permanent damage.

735
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 2: There is like a little bit of evidence, but it's

736
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 2: not very convincing. But a lot of brands are seizing

737
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 2: on that little bit of evidence and trying to freak

738
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 2: you out so you buy their product. So don't fall

739
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 2: for that. Screen light protection is just not necessary at

740
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 2: the moment, even though sunscreen is very necessary when you're

741
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 2: outdoors amazing. I guess another thing is I can't think

742
00:35:55,520 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 2: of any cosmetic product that is worth over two hundred dollars. Yeah,

743
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 2: if it's over two hundred dollars, I wouldn't recommend it

744
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,280
Speaker 2: unless you love it, like if you love the texture,

745
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 2: if you love the packaging, like I mean, I have

746
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: candles that are very expensive, but that's for sure. If

747
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 2: you find joy in it, then it is worth whatever

748
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 2: it's worth to you. But in terms of effects, I

749
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 2: can't think of anything. Maybe there is one, maybe there

750
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: will be one in the future, but right now I

751
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 2: don't think there is anything that is in terms of

752
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 2: effectiveness worth more than two hundred dollars.

753
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.

754
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 2: In terms of products, procedures is a different thing. Yeah,

755
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 2: tools is a different thing. But yeah, just skincare products

756
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 2: that you put on your.

757
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 3: Face, Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh.

758
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 1: That is like that in itself is like whoa industry shaking,

759
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: which also I think ties in really nicely to the

760
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: fact that you are also now a Bondi Sands ambassador.

761
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: And one of the things that I think is extraordinary

762
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: about this brand. We've already had Blair on the show.

763
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 3: I think it was god quite early on.

764
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: Then he actually grew up in the town of one

765
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 1: thousand people next to the town where my mom grew up,

766
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: so lots of connections. They're extraordinary human but also doing

767
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: amazing things in the Australian landscape. And one of the

768
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: biggest things has been how affordable they are for such

769
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: high quality products that are also using Australian botanicals and

770
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: exporting the beauty of Australia to the broader market. And

771
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: it's just absolutely amazing, particularly being someone as discerning as

772
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: you are but also bringing so much knowledge and science to.

773
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 3: What you do. Why are you so proud to be

774
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 3: a Bonde Ambassador?

775
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 2: I think it was a really easy choice for me,

776
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 2: to be honest. So I've been blogging since twenty eleven.

777
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 2: I think Bondi Sands launched in twenty twelve, and Bondi

778
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 2: Sands has sort of like always just been the tanning

779
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 2: brand that you go to since they launched. Their products

780
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 2: are really much a friendly I think back then the

781
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 2: competing channing products were twice surprised, but in terms of

782
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 2: effectiveness and in terms of how even they were and

783
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 2: how nice they were, Bondie Sands was already like comparable

784
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 2: or better. So it was sort of a very easy

785
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 2: choice when they said, oh, hey, we're thinking of launching

786
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 2: some skincare, can you give us your thoughts and would

787
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 2: you like to be involved? So yeah, that was the

788
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 2: very easy yes, because I mean I don't really do

789
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 2: fake tan anymore that much, but when I was it

790
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 2: was all just Bondi Sands. I would post about them

791
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 2: on my blog all the time, and then they would

792
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 2: send me more products and they would have a new

793
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 2: products which were really cool. So yeah, very easy choice

794
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,720
Speaker 2: in terms of the brand, in terms of the line,

795
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 2: the fact that they were butter friendly was super important

796
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 2: to me because yeah, I think having very financially accessible

797
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 2: skincare is really important, especially if you're a teenager. Back

798
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 2: when I was a teenager and you as well, I'm

799
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 2: sure we just had like clean and clear, three step

800
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 2: supermarket skincare. It was so hard to find good products.

801
00:38:55,560 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 2: It was always just like really harsh cleansers, really alcohol

802
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 2: tona's that stung your face and you were like pain

803
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:04,439
Speaker 2: is good, beauty is pain.

804
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 3: I don't remember that phase. Oh my god.

805
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, we just like gritted our tea through it. But yeah,

806
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 2: the Bondi Sands range I wish I was around when

807
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 2: I was a teenager because it's just so user friendly,

808
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 2: it's so budget friendly. All their products are really nice.

809
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 2: All of them are a really nice experience as well,

810
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 2: So I think that is really underrated in skincare. There

811
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 2: are so many products that are just awful to use,

812
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,959
Speaker 2: Like you'll have cleanses that like stick to your hand,

813
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 2: and don't really foam up. You have moisturizers that peel

814
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 2: off your skin or like they just look really bad

815
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 2: or they don't sit well under makeup. But the whole

816
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 2: range that I've tried, well, I've tried the whole range,

817
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 2: the whole range. Every time I've tried it has just

818
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 2: been a pleasure to use. Their moisturizers are incredible. I

819
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 2: don't know if you've tried them.

820
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, So everyone context the new everyday skincare

821
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: range that they just brought out.

822
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 3: Obviously, Bondi Sands have.

823
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,919
Speaker 1: Been doing amazing things in self tanning and then sun

824
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: care for a really long time, but they've just introduced

825
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: skincare and the range is not only a pastoral dream

826
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: like absolutely beautiful packaging or recyclable as well, which is incredible.

827
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 3: But they've brought out like the textures of.

828
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: There's a whipped moisturizer, there's an SPA fifty plus moisturizer,

829
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: there's a night moisturizer, there are all kinds of I

830
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: think there's five different serums in the range. There's a

831
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: hero oil, like there's just one of everything, and the textures.

832
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: I've got actually a video about to come out where

833
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: I have like all of them in a line on

834
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 1: my back of my hand so you can see all

835
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: of them.

836
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 3: They're just exquisite.

837
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, they are like some of the nicest textures. Like

838
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 2: I was not expecting nice textures when I heard it

839
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,720
Speaker 2: was going to be budget friendly, because I mean, something

840
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 2: has to be a compromise, right, No, it's not. The

841
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 2: textures are so good, especially with moisturizers. It's so hot

842
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 2: to find a budget friendly moisturizer that I would comfortably

843
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 2: recommend to people for any skin type. And they've put

844
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 2: out two, So yeah, incredible range.

845
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: Are there any sort of of those big facts or

846
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: myths or key tips or things that tie in around

847
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: the ingredients or the layering of the serums, because I

848
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: actually one of the things I did think was that

849
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: the range is so expansive that I kind of for

850
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,919
Speaker 1: someone who's like a little bit basic in skin, got

851
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 1: a bit overwhelmed of like, oh my god, Well, if

852
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: there's an oil a serum, there's an amazing chemical exfoliant,

853
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: which I think is really cool because going back to

854
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: that pain is beauty thing, the harshness of microbeads for

855
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 1: exfoliating my skin does not like that. So a chemical

856
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,879
Speaker 1: exfoliant is so cool, but again, like there's so many

857
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 1: different things like what order they do they go in?

858
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 1: And also what ingredients should you use on which days

859
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff, Like is there anything

860
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,919
Speaker 1: around your trial of the range that you can tie

861
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 1: in with some lab muffin top facts?

862
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 2: So I think the biggest tip for approaching a range

863
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 2: like this is think about what your skin is, Like

864
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 2: what do you feel your skin needs the most, Like

865
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 2: do you need to deal with uneven texture? Or like

866
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 2: if you've got fine lines, do you need to deal

867
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 2: with uneven tone? So do you want your skin to

868
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 2: be aes more one color the whole way, or what

869
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 2: do you want out of your skincare. I think that's

870
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 2: probably the best way to approach it. So if you think, well,

871
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 2: I have some fine lines, then you go off and

872
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 2: pick a product that will address that. So for fine lines,

873
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 2: for example, I would probably recommend the exfoliant and or

874
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 2: the Fountain of Youth serum, which is a big qutrer

875
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 2: product which is really good for anti aging. So then

876
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:36,919
Speaker 2: you would pick those two and then you would put

877
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,760
Speaker 2: one into your routine at a time, so you maybe

878
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 2: start off on the exfoliant and use that every two days.

879
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 2: If your skin is fine with that, then you can

880
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 2: build that up more so you can use that every day.

881
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 2: Once you're happy with that and you look at your skin,

882
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 2: you reassess it and see what your skin looks like now,

883
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 2: and see what you want to change about it then.

884
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 2: So I think that's usually a smarter way of doing

885
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 2: it than just getting too excited about products and using

886
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 2: them all. One will simplify your life, and two it

887
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 2: will save you money because then you're not just like

888
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 2: every time someone suggests a new product, you just add

889
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 2: it to your routine and you end up with like

890
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,399
Speaker 2: twenty three steps, twenty three products, of which twenty you

891
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 2: actually don't need. Yeah, So I think that's probably the

892
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 2: best way of approaching it. I think in terms of layering,

893
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 2: generally the rule of thumb is thinnest to thickest. It's

894
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 2: both practical and also scientific in a way. Thinner things

895
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 2: tend to absorb better into your skin, and usually they

896
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 2: tend to have systems that, yeah, are designed to absorb

897
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 2: better into your skin, and so if you layer it

898
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 2: that way, you will probably end up with the correct order.

899
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 2: I think that's probably the least confusing way, because then

900
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 2: you don't have to think about a million ingredients. With

901
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 2: the BONDI Sands range, all of the SEMs can be

902
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 2: used together. So yeah, just see how thick they are

903
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:54,720
Speaker 2: and then just go with the thinnest first.

904
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, thinnest to thickest is like the most

905
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: practical hack you could ever have given me, because otherwise

906
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: it's just like so overwhelming, so many different layers of things.

907
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: But that really, like, yeah, that makes so much sense.

908
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: Before we move on, because I did interrupt you before.

909
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: Are there any other big hacks or like most watched

910
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:17,280
Speaker 1: videos or most asked questions, like little nuggets of wisdom

911
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: that you have from a cosmetic chemist perspective, I think.

912
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 2: In terms of Australians and sun protection. I think one

913
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 2: of the things that kind of blew people's minds when

914
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 2: I talked about it was I think about layers of

915
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,839
Speaker 2: sun protection. I think a lot of people who get

916
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 2: into skincare end up hyper focused on sunscreen, because again,

917
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 2: sunscreen is the most important thing. But then people are

918
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 2: not really stressed about it. They're like, how much do

919
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 2: I put on? How often do I have to reapply?

920
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 2: What can I use with it, And I think the

921
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 2: answer is really just try to use a generous amount,

922
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 2: so about a quarter tea spoon for your face, or

923
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 2: you can sort of measure it out as like two

924
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 2: finger links, that's around the right amount. But then after

925
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 2: that just think about layering different types of sun protection

926
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 2: because then if you mess up your sunscreen, then make

927
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,439
Speaker 2: sure you're also wearing a hat or try to stay

928
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 2: in the shade when the sun is really high. So

929
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 2: I think that's yeah, that's a bit of a destressing

930
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 2: sort of approach to sun protection.

931
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:15,959
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's a great one.

932
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, just have a fallback.

933
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, And are there any like big rife you mentioned

934
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 1: before about the screens and the effect of that, like

935
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: aging us. Are there any other kind of not rumors,

936
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: but just like things that are going around at the

937
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 1: moment that you've busted recently.

938
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:34,399
Speaker 2: Brief safe sunscreen is a big one.

939
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 3: I watched that video.

940
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's a lot of advertising around brief safe

941
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 2: sunscreen at the moment. But sunscreen is not a cause

942
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 2: of bleaching of coral reefs. There's pretty much no evidence

943
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 2: that that has ever happened in the wild. And one

944
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 2: of the top sunscreen scientists in the world who is Australian.

945
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,839
Speaker 2: He studies the Great Barrier reef. He said that if

946
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,439
Speaker 2: you put a list of everything that's bad for coral

947
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 2: reefs in a list, sunscreen would be about number two hundred.

948
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 2: So yeah, don't stress about, you know, the sunscreen you're

949
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 2: wearing every day hurting coral reefs. Maybe if you're going

950
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 2: to dive near coral, if you're going on like an

951
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,760
Speaker 2: actual tour of coral, maybe then just use the sunscreen

952
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,320
Speaker 2: that they recommend. Try to wear less sunscreen, so wear

953
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 2: a wet suit instead. But for every day sunscreen where

954
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,839
Speaker 2: even at the beach, don't worry about reef safe, just

955
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:26,959
Speaker 2: use the sunscreen that will protect your skin.

956
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 1: WHOA, Oh my gosh, that's fascinating. I did find that

957
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 1: so interesting, especially around the chemical versus physical sunscreens, which

958
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: also is something that people should go and watch your

959
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 1: videos for because if that was only a couple of

960
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: years ago that I even knew the difference between those

961
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: two things. So much to learn, guys, go and hit

962
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 1: up blood Muffins on Instagram, because there is just so

963
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: much to learn, and I would love to use this

964
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 1: entire episode on that just for selfish purposes. But I

965
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: didn't promise we would come back to the whole imposter

966
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 1: syndrome and self doubt and how that's played out for

967
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: you along the way as well, because particularly when you

968
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 1: are growing a really devoted audience who is really leaning

969
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: on you and trusting you for advice and like you've

970
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: grown this, you know, enormous community, that can be really overwhelming,

971
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 1: and of course, naturally along the way, especially if you

972
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 1: fell into your career path and didn't kind of you

973
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: know in advance, think how am I going to arm

974
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: myself to feel really well equipped to do this? You know,

975
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,439
Speaker 1: it can be really hard not to experience self doubt

976
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: along the way. So how has that played out for you?

977
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 1: And in the worst moments, what are some of the

978
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: things that have helped you kind of get through it.

979
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 2: I think I've always had a lot of self doubt,

980
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,800
Speaker 2: so I'm not sure I really have any great tips

981
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 2: for getting out of it. I think for me personally,

982
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 2: just doing things and then proving to myself that I

983
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: can do it because I've got this hard evidence that

984
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 2: I've done it has been very helpful. So for me,

985
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 2: it's one of my big problems is just procrastinating and

986
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,439
Speaker 2: not doing stuff because I'm scared, and I've just found

987
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 2: that forcing myself to do it and then dealing with

988
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 2: it later tends to be quite good. I'm sure there

989
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 2: are a lot of people who are very much the

990
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 2: other way around, and they should go the other way,

991
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 2: But for me, it's very much I need to do things.

992
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 2: In terms of dealing with pressure and that sort of thing.

993
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,240
Speaker 2: I'm not great at it, to be honest. I think

994
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 2: having a good sleep schedule helps a lot with me.

995
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 2: But yeah, as someone who works on the internet who

996
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 2: lives in Australia, it's quite difficult to have a good

997
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 2: sleep schedule and a good work life balance because I think,

998
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 2: like my peak time for posting is midnight, so.

999
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 3: Inconvenient, very inconvenient. What about the fact I love.

1000
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: That idea also of the rip the band aid method,

1001
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 1: because I think that, you know, everyone's method of getting

1002
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: through self doubt will be different, and it's really important

1003
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:49,840
Speaker 1: for everyone to kind of learn to tweak, you know,

1004
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 1: what works for them. But often the rip the band

1005
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 1: aid method does kind of just help you push through

1006
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 1: it now, but it doesn't give you enough time to

1007
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: think about it too much before you do it. Just

1008
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,320
Speaker 1: do it and a lot of the time you'll surprise

1009
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: yourself and that gives you a lot of then anecdotal

1010
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 1: and empirical evidence to be like, oh, well, I survived

1011
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 1: that time.

1012
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 3: So maybe I should go again next time.

1013
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: But the other one, I think as we moved started

1014
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 1: our first business and I moved out of law in

1015
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: that same time as you around twenty fourteen when you

1016
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: first started kind of using the Internet and social media

1017
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: as a platform, was the same time as we did,

1018
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 1: and in a totally different field and way. We were

1019
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: also kind of first to market with much of powder

1020
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 1: at the time, so really had to adjust from a

1021
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 1: good couple of years as the only market leader without

1022
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: really any competitors, to then a very saturated market very

1023
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 1: quickly in an increasingly busy landscape where everyone was coming

1024
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 1: onto these platforms. And I think it's quite a unique

1025
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: thing to have self doubt when there's no one else

1026
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 1: around you. But then to add comparison onto that a

1027
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 1: couple of years later, when suddenly everyone's doing similar things,

1028
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 1: that's also it kind of throws you all over again.

1029
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: So in terms of comparison, I think it's something we

1030
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: all fall into it very easily. Just looking at the

1031
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: minute details of everyone else's lives. How have you stayed

1032
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 1: on track now that I mean you want the industry

1033
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 1: to grow, that's a good sign, But without worrying too

1034
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: much about like it invalidating what you're doing.

1035
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 2: I think it's a really tricky balance. I found that

1036
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 2: collaborating for my particular field is really good. I feel

1037
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 2: like with skincare science, there is so much room for

1038
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 2: people to come on and have their own little niche,

1039
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 2: So I think collaborating and connecting with like minded people

1040
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 2: is really really helpful. So instead of being competitive, it's like, well,

1041
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 2: there's a lot of room for us. If anything, we're

1042
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 2: competing against the pseudoscience rather than competing against each other.

1043
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,319
Speaker 2: So let's collaborate. And it's also really good in having

1044
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 2: friends because then you can have your little group chats

1045
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 2: where you complain about things and you realize that your

1046
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 2: struggles aren't unique. So even little things like being able

1047
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 2: to complain about like the same issues and that sort

1048
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 2: of community building is really really old. But in terms

1049
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 2: of comparison, I do tend to just not really look

1050
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 2: at a lot of similar content because then I find

1051
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 2: that I don't want to inadvertently plagiarize and I like

1052
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 2: coming up with my own ideas and that really does

1053
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 2: help with the comparison. I have found that when I'm

1054
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 2: creating rather than consuming media, I am happier.

1055
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really interesting.

1056
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 1: I think that that kind of blinkered method is you know,

1057
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: that's why racehorses were blinkers. That they're not you know,

1058
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: they're running their own race. And that's the kind of

1059
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: analogy I think of is that sometimes it is best

1060
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 1: to not look at it.

1061
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 3: Like it's pretty simple.

1062
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 1: If there are things that you know, you tend to

1063
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:44,359
Speaker 1: know in your landscape, people who are doing similar things

1064
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 1: around you, and it's actually, you know, maybe good for

1065
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 1: you to create an environment where you're not seeing that

1066
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,800
Speaker 1: all the time rather than you know, I think sometimes

1067
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: it's like a car accident. You don't want to look away,

1068
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: like you just keep looking and you can't, and you know,

1069
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 1: it makes you feel crappy. You keep going back to it.

1070
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: That sometimes curating your environment so that you can just

1071
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 1: focus on creating in your own lane and doing your

1072
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 1: own thing is a.

1073
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,359
Speaker 3: Really good strategy. I find that really helpful as well.

1074
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 1: So we've spoken a lot about your incredible path Ya

1075
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: to lab muffin and cosmetic chemistry. But I think another

1076
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 1: thing that's a really big part of this show is

1077
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 1: that we get very consumed by our working identities and

1078
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 1: productive output related identities, and when what you do is

1079
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 1: also part of your everyday life, it's really hard to

1080
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,280
Speaker 1: get any kind of balance or division. But I think

1081
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 1: having things in your life that I just play that

1082
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 1: aren't productive, that are unrelated to your work, that are

1083
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 1: just for joy are so important.

1084
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 3: So how do you play?

1085
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 1: Is there anything you do that you just do that

1086
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 1: would be otherwise considered a waste of time, but that

1087
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: just brings you joy.

1088
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 2: I do try to relax more now, because yeah, I

1089
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 2: have been working quite hard and I was quite close

1090
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,839
Speaker 2: to burnout recently. Still kind of at but I'm trying

1091
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,799
Speaker 2: to introduce more elements into my life. So one thing

1092
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 2: I really enjoy doing is cooking, So I try to

1093
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 2: cook a nice dinner pretty much every night and just

1094
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 2: have that time where my hands are occupied and I

1095
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 2: can't be on my phone. I've also found that I

1096
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:11,359
Speaker 2: started doing crochet, which is really nice, and yeah, it's

1097
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 2: very meditative because you're just focusing on I mean, there

1098
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 2: are hard projects and there are easy projects. So it

1099
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:18,879
Speaker 2: depends on what I want. But like, if I need

1100
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,399
Speaker 2: something to just occupy my hands while I watch TV,

1101
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 2: then an easy project is nice. If there's something I

1102
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 2: have to focus on, then again that gets me out

1103
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:30,240
Speaker 2: of the what I'm doing and into that. Before the pandemic,

1104
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,800
Speaker 2: I was also doing pole dancing as my leiser activity.

1105
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 3: I love that.

1106
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really fun. It's pretty much the only exercise

1107
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,240
Speaker 2: I've ever been able to stick to for a long time.

1108
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 2: So I started doing that actually back in twenty eleven

1109
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 2: when I was choosing, like I wanted to do a blog,

1110
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 2: the choice was actually skincare like or beauty science or

1111
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 2: pole dancing. Yeah, it's kind of lucky that I got

1112
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 2: into skincare science. It could have very well been pulled down.

1113
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 3: Sliding doors moment. Oh my gosh. I love that.

1114
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 1: So this is really interesting to me because in this section,

1115
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: most people who have a career doing something they absolutely

1116
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 1: love and that they're passionate about. Because a lot of

1117
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:20,479
Speaker 1: people don't necessarily combine their passions with their career. There's

1118
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:24,280
Speaker 1: always something to help the brain unwind or the body

1119
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 1: unwind that is so unrelated, and I love that. It's

1120
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:31,439
Speaker 1: something like manual or physical that's like wholly consumes your brain.

1121
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: Like crochet makes me so happy. This episode should be

1122
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 1: called Seize the crochet, Like if there's a pun to

1123
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: do with play, it makes me so happy. But it

1124
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: is often those really manual back to basics like knitting

1125
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 1: or cooking, or for me, it's gardening randomly. I'm so

1126
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 1: bad at it, Like I don't do it properly, but

1127
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:52,959
Speaker 1: I just ripped it up in the yard just because

1128
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 1: it makes me so consuming. I can't look at my phone.

1129
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 1: I can't, you know, concentrate on anything else. And I

1130
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: think that's so important that we all have that outlet

1131
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 1: that's like off your devices you don't have to worry about,

1132
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: like when we're quite a type, you know, it's so

1133
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 1: easy to want to be the best at something or

1134
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 1: to turn that into a job. But I love that,

1135
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:13,360
Speaker 1: Like you know, you're like, I just do it because

1136
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 1: I enjoy it. Like my gardening is terrible. I don't

1137
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 1: need to win at gardening. It's fine. Second last question

1138
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: for you before I let you go, what are three

1139
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: interesting things about you that don't normally come up in conversation.

1140
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:28,760
Speaker 2: Well, I'm allergic to everything.

1141
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 1: That would be so hard in beauty.

1142
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, not everything, Like I'm being dramatic. I like, I

1143
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:40,919
Speaker 2: have terrible hay fever. So I'm allergic to like dust

1144
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 2: pollen cats, which is really sad because my family have

1145
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 2: these gorgeous cats that I'm very allergic to. No, the

1146
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:53,879
Speaker 2: more I love them, the more they run away. Oh

1147
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 2: I guess another one would be like I used to

1148
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 2: do a lot of pole and before I became super

1149
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,959
Speaker 2: a type with blab muffin, I was super a type

1150
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,399
Speaker 2: with poles. I was doing a lot of competitions and.

1151
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 1: I was just saying, it's not a competition. You don't

1152
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: have to be the best. You do have to be

1153
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 1: the best. You do have to be the best.

1154
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 2: I think it's just that a type personality. Like at

1155
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 2: some point I sat down and I was like, right,

1156
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 2: I can't be a type of both. I have to

1157
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 2: chill out on the pole. So, yeah, I stopped doing

1158
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 2: competitions I think twenty oh, twenty eighteen. But yeah, I

1159
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 2: used to do pole comps and it was tons of fun.

1160
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 3: That's amazing.

1161
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,479
Speaker 2: I wasn't that good. I was good at an amateur level.

1162
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 2: I wasn't like a professional level, but yeah, it was

1163
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 2: heaps of fun. I highly recommend doing it. I think

1164
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 2: I've heard so many people tell me they've been thinking

1165
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 2: about doing pole, and yeah, I guess this is back

1166
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 2: to my rip the band. I think, just do it,

1167
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 2: just try.

1168
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 1: We did a segment on House of Wellness on Channel seven.

1169
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 3: It's a show I co host.

1170
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 1: We did a segment on fitness but not in a gym,

1171
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 1: like all the different ways that you can work out

1172
00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:59,760
Speaker 1: if you don't like gym or if you don't like running,

1173
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 1: and it was like aerial yoga, roller blading, haula hooping,

1174
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 1: and we did.

1175
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 3: We went to do a pole.

1176
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 1: Class and it was insane, like the women holding themselves

1177
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: up without their hands, like the strongest legs ever, like

1178
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: hanging upside down. It's so athletic, it's insane.

1179
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 2: It's so much fun as well, like it combines so

1180
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 2: many things, because I think me anyway, I'm terrible with

1181
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 2: repetitive things. I get bored very easily. But because pole

1182
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 2: has like elements of dance in it as well, like

1183
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 2: remembering choreography and that sort of thing, it's really good

1184
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 2: you like accidentally get fit.

1185
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 1: While yeah, that was kind of the criteria for what

1186
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: we were doing. It was like what are the things

1187
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: that you do for fun? And then the exercise part

1188
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 1: is just incidental, Like it's like, oh, I happen to

1189
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 1: have sweated, but actually I was just taller, hooping like

1190
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 1: a child for an hour and having the best time

1191
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 1: of my life. And the smiles like it's just grown

1192
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 1: adults like jumping up and down like children when they'd

1193
00:57:57,360 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: get a new move or like you know, it's just

1194
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 1: that's why it's called. Like the idea is to be

1195
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 1: a little bit childlike and to kind of like get

1196
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 1: that childlike sense of wonder back for an activity in

1197
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 1: your life. Very last question, since I love quotes so much,

1198
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 1: what's your favorite quote?

1199
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 2: I don't really have one. It's terrible. I really should

1200
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 2: have one, But I think it's like, have you got

1201
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 2: one of those things where you like have core values

1202
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 2: for your business? Yeah, I've been trying to do that

1203
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 2: and I'm still slowly trying to get whittle it down.

1204
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's why I don't have a favorite quote.

1205
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 1: My god, that's so fine. What about like a core value?

1206
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 1: What's a core value or a call like even just

1207
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 1: like a mantra or like a philosophy of your life

1208
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 1: by do you have any like rules for life.

1209
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 2: I think for my business at least one of them

1210
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 2: is just educate with empathy. I think one of the

1211
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 2: things that that we kind of don't feel like is

1212
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 2: great for business, but it actually is, is empathy. I

1213
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 2: think it's always dismissed as just, you know, some fluffy thing,

1214
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 2: but I think having that empathy and having that connection

1215
00:58:56,400 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 2: is really good for just being humans really. But at

1216
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 2: the same time, it is like a good sort of

1217
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 2: business value to have. There is value in it because

1218
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 2: connection is what makes us human.

1219
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Oh my gosh, that was all. That was so

1220
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 3: much better than a quote. That was amazing.

1221
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Michelle, thank you so much. This has

1222
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 1: been absolutely fascinating. I do this thing at the end

1223
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 1: of every episode where I realize, oh my god, my

1224
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 1: big epiphany. Today's I want to be a cosmetic chemist.

1225
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 1: I just like it's so excited about seeing other people

1226
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 1: do what they're excited about that it makes me, Yeah,

1227
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 1: I want to do it too. Oh my gosh, thank

1228
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us.

1229
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 3: It's been wonderful.

1230
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

1231
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, what a clever cookie.

1232
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 1: You must go and visit Michelle's page to learn the

1233
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 1: inner and outer workings of your beauty regime. What an

1234
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 1: absolute game changer she is for the industry. As always,

1235
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 1: please thank her for sharing so generously with the neighborhood

1236
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 1: by sharing the episode and your learnings or any further

1237
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 1: questions you might have for her tagging at lab Muff

1238
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 1: and Beauty Science and the podcast, so we can keep

1239
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 1: growing the neighborhood as far and wide as possible. Eventually,

1240
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 1: I promise you'll get the next dose of Yays of

1241
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 1: our Lives.

1242
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 3: But don't forget.

1243
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: There's still time to submit your questions or any stories.

1244
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 1: If you haven't yet done so, you might have seen

1245
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 1: that last week's incredible episode with Alison Gordon was the

1246
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: result of a yeghborhood nominations. So if you do have

1247
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 1: a beautiful community hero or story to dob in. I

1248
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 1: love whistleblowing in the good sense, please shoot it over.

1249
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 1: In the meantime, I hope you are seizing your yay