WEBVTT - The Class Photo Ban & The D*ckhead Dad Rebrand 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:07.280 Welcome to Parenting out Loud, the podcast for parents who 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:11.040 don't always listen to parenting podcasts. We like to bring 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:14.320 you the news, the trends, and the culture and what 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:17.960 parents are thinking about. I'm Monice Boy, I'm Amelia Lesto. 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:18.920 And I'm Stacy Hicks. 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:21.600 And coming up on today's show, another celebrity child has 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:24.480 changed their name to distance themselves from their celebrity dad. 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:26.880 And it's a pattern that's feeling a little too familiar. 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:29.240 And look, we are a show. We're pro dad on 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:32.960 this show. We love talking about good dads. Today is 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:37.519 not that day. Today it's dickhead dads. That's right. 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:37.680 Ye. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:42.000 And look in this is not normal news. I bring 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:45.279 to you a chilling warning from the government to schools. 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:49.280 It's a real watershed moment, I think for kids online. 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:52.120 Yeah, can't wait for that. Okay, news aside, I'm going 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:55.280 to solve the what's for dinner tonight question with a 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:59.400 two minute dinner hack buck. Yeah, girls, get excited. It's 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:01.200 we can in a bag. 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:02.320 Love it. 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:04.880 But first, in case you missed it, a couple of 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:07.280 little tidbits from the news cycle that you might have 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:09.920 scrolled past this week. And it's our job to bring 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:12.639 them to you. And first I present to you Megan 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:16.600 Markle on Master Chef Our Duchess. She was on our 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:19.200 screens this week. If you're still watching broadcast TV, I 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:22.240 don't know many people who are, but look anyway. Then 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:25.800 naturally the conversation on master Chef turned to how she's 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:31.560 raising Archie and Lillabet, and she said, thankfully, they're very 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:37.360 good eaters, and she mentioned a dessert policy in their house. 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:38.320 Take a listen to this. 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:40.319 The kids jump in a lot, especially with the Gordon. 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:43.039 I think it's really it's such a nice luxury to 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.000 be able to have so much space and things to cook. 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:47.919 And if they say, Momma, can I have dessert? You say, 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:50.480 if you can pick it, you can have it. 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:51.640 He got pick chocolate. 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:52.440 Now you can't pick that. 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:55.280 You pick a nice pas phod or what not? 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:55.400 Up. 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:57.200 But now we always have a nace as my husband say, 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:58.600 pud after dinner. 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:08.600 Okay, what it's very sweet, it's very on BRANDI magna mons. 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:10.440 Yes, you can't pick a magnum. 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:13.960 Do you have a rule in your house, Amelia. 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:17.600 Rule magnums on days that have been tough, maybe a 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:20.040 mini one, but a magnam and mine is not. 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:21.840 If you can pick it, you can eat it. Mine's 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:23.760 just if you can reach it, you can eat it. Please, 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:26.520 don't make me get up. You can grab it, you 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:27.080 can have it. 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.040 Aren't you from an unusually tall family? 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:29.520 Yeah? 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:31.919 Just makes everything fair game. 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:33.919 Yeah, I can't hide anything at the top of the shell. 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:36.160 She's five and she's already reaching up there. 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:40.240 But look, that's Megan over and done with. Because I 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:44.520 actually think Amelia, you have found the parenting story of 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:44.839 the week. 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:48.160 Look step aside, Eastern rosella boy, we love your song. 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:51.560 But there's a new musical prodigy in town and his 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:55.200 name is Charlie Wu. He is thirteen years old. He 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:58.480 is from the Melbourne suburb of Wheeler's Hill, and he 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:02.160 has done It's all very proud because over his winter holidays, 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:06.120 Charlie traveled to Russia with his mum, Ashley, to compete 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:11.080 in the Grand Performance Piano competition, and Charlie performed what 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:14.280 has been described as the hardest piano piece in the world. 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:17.880 It's Rakmaninov's Concerto Number three. For people who remember the 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:20.840 movie Shine with Jeffrey Rush back in the nineties, that 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:24.840 was the piece that drove him crazy. It was so hard. Anyway, 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.720 thirteen year old Charlie played it and he came in 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:32.000 equal first in the global competition in Russia. 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:37.120 In Russia, Russia. Can you imagine that? Oh, God, so intimidating. 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:39.960 This is so good on so many levels, because number one, 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:44.480 this kid has composure that any adult would wish for. 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:48.200 Just take a listen to him talking about making mistakes 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:50.240 when he's playing sometimes. 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:54.520 Oh, I often make mistakes when I play piano, especially 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:58.760 when I'm playing pieces that are more new. I try 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:02.280 my best to ignore them, and I always try to 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:07.600 focus on the line, the overarching story and narrative of 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:10.600 the pieces I've been playing, and I try to express 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:15.119 that instead of actually focusing on the accuracy of mind. 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:16.479 I think. 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:20.840 I think the reason I really love this story, in 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:24.680 addition to how impressive Charlie is, is that it highlights 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.640 one of the best things about parenting is when your 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:31.279 kids get really into something that you know nothing about, 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:34.159 and you just watch them go, You watch them shine, 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:37.440 and you're shrugging your shoulders and going, where did that 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:43.120 come from? Because Charlie's mum, Ashley Wu is talking in 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:45.840 this next clip about how that's how she. 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:47.279 Feels about Charlie's success. 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:48.919 And by the way, the sound that you hear in 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:52.360 the background in this interview is the six year old 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:54.839 Charlie playing Mary had a little lamb. 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:58.200 And Benie, I did the hymn Sun and just pray 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:03.640 for fun. His first piano teacher told me he might 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:09.360 have perfect pitch because I don't know about music, and 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:11.360 I don't really understand what does that mean. 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:16.159 I mean, but I love that you. 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:19.800 Can whenever music he listened, he can pray it all. 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.840 And then I think he may have some parents. 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:27.039 We think he might have some talent. Ashley, the world 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:27.880 agrees with you. 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:29.640 I love it. 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:32.000 I think everyone secretly wants their kids to be at 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:34.440 Charlie where they are a prodigy without you having to 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.360 push it. They just get obsessed with something and roll 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:39.920 with it. It's kind of like a little bit of clout, 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:42.200 but you have literally nothing to do with it. 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:45.320 This was such a beautiful story. Thank you for bringing 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:47.920 this Last of Heaven to the podcast. The other piece 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.400 I loved about it was he takes his skills to 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:54.880 aged care homes in warthor and plays for their elderly residents. 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:57.480 I know, can Charlie wou get any better. 0:05:57.760 --> 0:05:58.560 Well done, Charlie. 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:01.839 He won a baby Gram piano at the competition, but 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:04.480 the organizers said, look, we can't shit that to Australia 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:08.520 and you know what, fair enough, Russian organizers. So instead 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:11.040 he was given a cash prize of thirty five thousand dollars. 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:13.039 Oh great, well that's awesome. 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:17.040 Well, this week I want to talk about two Hollywood 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:19.880 megastar dads that were in the headlines for the exact 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.080 same reason, but nothing to do with the reasons they 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.640 would like to be in the headlines. The first was 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:28.440 Brad Pitt, whose daughter, Vivian Jolly Pitt is now eighteen, 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:32.680 which I just can't believe that she's eighteen. She legally 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:35.880 filed to remove Pitt from her surname in Los Angeles, 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:39.600 and this follows the pattern of her older siblings. So Shiloh, Zahara, 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:41.680 and Maddix have all already done the same in the 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.880 last two years, filed to remove Pitt from their names. 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:47.640 And this is just an interesting tidbit that I didn't 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.800 know on the pit kids. So under Californian law, you 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:53.640 have to publish your intent publicly to change your name 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.279 before you do so, so it's a really big statement. 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:58.440 You can't just kind of go down to the local 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:01.800 office or post office and change your name. So they 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.919 are both Sahara and Maddix published their intent in the 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:08.480 Los Angeles Daily Journal before their court hearings. They had 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:11.120 to publicly say this will no longer be my name. 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.080 My name will be this, and that just feels like 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:16.160 such a huge statement to have to make before you're 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:19.360 estranging from someone. Then, on the other side of the country, 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:22.960 Tom Cruise's daughter, Suri Cruse, did the exact same thing. 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.160 So records have confirmed that she registered to vote in 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:30.800 Pennsylvania using the name Suri Noel, which is her mum, 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.760 Katie Holmes's middle name, So she's using that as her 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.600 last name. And that's confirming something that people have thought 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:39.160 for a long time because Suri and Tom haven't been 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:43.559 seen together in over a decade, basically since Tom Cruise 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:45.800 and Katie Holmes got divorced. I just want to take 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:48.800 you back because there might be people listening that don't 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:50.640 remember this. It's kind of faded from their memory. There 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:52.680 might be people that don't know this, that are lucky 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:54.520 enough to be young enough to not know any of this. 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:58.040 But there was a time where Suri Cruse was literally 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.280 the most famous baby in. 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:05.600 The world, like and she was everywhere and gorgeous and 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:08.320 oh god, yes, squish a little face. She did a 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:09.200 cover of magazines. 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.600 Yes, this baby was debuted on the cover of Vanity 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.160 Fair magazine. It was shot by Annie Leebel. It's and 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:19.840 it was a twenty two page spread of the family. Like, yeah, 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.480 that was that was big time even in those times. 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:25.840 Story it was the girl from Dawson's Creek, the girl 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:30.560 next door, Mary's the biggest Hollywood star mission, impossible, Maverick 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:32.400 like it. It was just perfect. 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.520 Yeah, and this very much became Tom Cruise's personality for 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.680 a long time. Was the wife guy, and that he 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:42.800 was the devoted dad to Suri already had older childrown 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:46.320 because he was so successfully pivoted into my private life 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:48.280 is mysterious and I just love making movies. 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:50.840 Yes, yes, he was. He was the og wife. 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:53.800 Yeah, he was jumping on couches on Oprah and telling 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.560 them how much he loved you know, Katie, And that 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:59.120 was very much part of his personality. And then as 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:01.320 I was saying, like they have not been seen together 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:05.200 in years and years, but I think it's so interesting. 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:07.720 Brad Pitt with this story as well, has been in 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:12.199 the headlines for years around being estranged from his children. 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:17.320 But for both men, I think they very successfully managed 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:19.960 to make people forget that this is the relationship that 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:22.720 they have with their children. In fact, both men have 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.600 arguably have bigger careers now than they ever have. Like 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.440 Brad Pitt was in F one, Tom Cruise was doing 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:33.560 Top Gun, Maverick and Mission Impossible reboot. And yet the 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.200 mothers of those children are the ones that have faced 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:40.680 constant rhetoric about well, what did you do? You must 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:43.640 have done something to turn those children against their fathers. 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:44.080 Yeah. 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:46.200 When I was having a look into this story because 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:48.880 it's something that's like in my DNA, these stories from 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:52.600 growing up, in you know, magazine, Times, but even in People, 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.560 there was a quote from a source close to Brad, 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.679 which means it was a very reputable quote at the time, 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:01.240 saying that it was incredib sad that the kids had 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:05.000 distanced themselves from Pitt, but not surprising after years of 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.480 one parent weaponizing children against the other with no regard 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:13.680 for the consequences. Referring to Angelina Shirley. So, I think 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:17.480 it's just interesting that we're seeing this play out again 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:22.040 with another high profile child where they're estranging from their parents, 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:24.200 and yet it's still the women in those relationships that 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:25.959 are copying the flak for that happening. 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:27.679 I think that's so true, and I want to hear 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:31.080 from Mond's about how the men have pulled off this 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:33.800 magic trick. But I just want to add a little 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.280 wrinkle in this theory, which is that if we go 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:41.080 further back in time, Tom Cruiser's wife, Nicole Kidman is 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:47.199 strange from reportedly estranged from the children from that. 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:51.120 Marriage who seem to be. 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.679 Involved in Scientology in a way that Nicole Kidman is not. 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:55.400 Yeah. 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:59.080 Yeah, And that was definitely the undertones of Tom cruisers 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:02.000 split from k Holmes as well. She's never public spoken 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:06.280 about that, but that the messaging then was that part 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:10.080 of the divorce was protecting Surrey from the Church of Scientology, 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:10.959 and there was real. 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:14.200 Cloak and dagga stuff that Katie had to execute in 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:16.440 order to get out of that marriage. If you remember that, 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:18.640 I'm sure you do, actually, since it's in your DNA. 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:22.800 But there was a secret passage from their apartment in 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.480 the New York neighborhood of Chelsea through the Whole Food's 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:28.880 grocery store that was in the basement of their building 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:32.800 that she used to escape without the paparazzi learning about it. 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:33.840 I did not know that bit. 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:35.720 You've given me a new tidbit for this story. 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:36.280 I love it. 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:38.720 I'm a bit lost. So I guess what we're trying 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.679 to answer today or unpick, because we don't answer anything, 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:44.760 we just analyze and think about things. Is like, there's 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:48.760 this new brand of Hollywood dad that's rising up. It's 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:52.719 the Chris Hemsworth, it's the Dwayne Rock Johnson's, it's the devoted, 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:58.080 doting dad, and they use that to like elevate their brand. 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:03.240 And then on the other side, there is this dad 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:09.760 from maybe a generation ago, arguably who have the same 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.360 level of star power, but there's an undercurrent of they're 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.319 a bit of a deadbeat and yet it doesn't affect 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:17.840 their career. They still kind of get away with it. 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:18.800 Is that what we're trying to unpick? 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:22.679 But I mean, these two men are I think the 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:27.439 biggest jen X movie stars right Like I don't. I 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:29.880 can't think of anyone else that would beat either of them. 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:30.920 No, And. 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:35.440 One question I have is is this just seeing a 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:39.839 trajectory of a relationship and a family over a long 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.560 period of time, or maybe it's just something inherent to 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:45.600 that particular generation of deadbeat dads. 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:49.079 Yeah, I guess it's all speculation, right, But I think 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:50.920 there's a couple of things. And I do want to 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.480 talk about family estrangement because I think that's really interesting 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:58.440 in and of itself. But first I kind of want 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:03.160 to talk about the blood Pit playbook of PR crisis management, 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:05.679 which we have touched on before. But in case you 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.640 missed that episode, when those allegations were bubbling around him 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:13.200 about six years ago, allegations of him choking one of 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.840 their children on a plane, it went, it was dismissed 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.600 from court there, he was never charged for anything. But 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:25.040 when that was all swirling around, he came out in 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.520 GQ and did the World's Hottest photoshoot, and then he 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:32.960 did this confessional interview where he talked about quitting weed, 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:36.959 getting sober, and it was kind of a redemption arc 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.120 for him of I'm cleaning up my act. 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:39.559 Now. 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:43.839 Nowhere in that huge feature does he name a single 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.360 one of his children or comment on being a dad. 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:50.160 And when he's pushed about Angelina, he uses very minimizing 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:55.800 language and very generic, sort of unemotional language. He says 0:13:55.880 --> 0:14:01.400 he feels contained and secure in his new chap. This 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:04.800 is a technique called bridging as well. You see politicians 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:07.880 do it quite a lot. It's where if someone pushes 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:11.760 you on a point, you kind of direct the conversation 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:14.199 back to the key messages that you want to talk about. 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:17.160 And you'll often see it with politicians where they will 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.720 not answer the question, they will just kind of stay 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:23.520 on the same track that they were on. And Brad Pitt, 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:27.080 if you analyze his interviews, there's a lot of bridging 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:29.960 that's going on. Well, that was twenty seventeen, he did 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:33.280 that six years ago. He did an interview with Dak 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.720 Shepherd in twenty twenty five. Now Dax's is known. This 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.120 is a two and a half hour chat with a 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:43.000 host who is known for pulling out a lot of good, 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:47.240 kind of raw material out of guests. Brad Pitt talks 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:51.960 about again AA, he talks about his sobriety, He talks 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:55.680 about his relationship with his own father. But in that 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:57.920 two and a half hours, the conversation does not go 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:03.400 anywhere near fatherhood. And I think that's really deliberate. They 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.360 had to have been a precondition for the interview. 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:09.280 Yeah, because how do you do how do you conduct 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:11.640 a personal interview with someone for two and a half 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:15.120 hours talking about their relationship with their own father and 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.920 their kids just simply don't come up in conversation. This 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:20.400 was a directive from the pit camp. 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:27.080 Absolutely, And similarly, the Tom Cruise playbook is quite quite 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:30.160 the same. Slightly different though. So he did as you 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.600 said before, Stacy. When he first was with Katie Holmes, 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.040 it was this fairytale romance. And he did this one 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:39.480 interview with Oprah in two thousand and six where he 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:42.920 jumped on the couch and the internet never forgot. He 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:47.080 became widely mocked. He was the Internet's biggest meme. He 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:50.880 was just his popularity took a massive nose dive, and 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:54.040 that means real dollars in Hollywood, right, If you're not 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:57.080 a popular actor, you can't sell movies. And so his 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:02.040 comeback was talking about your personal life. That was the 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:04.640 last interview he did that Oprah one and where he 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:07.440 talked anything about his personal life. From then, it's just 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:12.040 talk less, work more, do your own stunts, let your 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:15.000 movies do the talking. There is no dad talk, there 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.520 is no fatherhood talk, there is no love talk. And 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:20.560 I think it's really deliberate to sort of distance themselves 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:23.440 and it worked. It worked for a period of time, right, 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.720 because no one else in the story could talk. But 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:31.080 what we've seen, Stacy, as you've brought this today, Suri 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:36.000 Cruz has turned eighteen. She now can legally change her name. 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.000 These kids are now adults, with their own lawyers, their 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.840 own social media followings, and their new names. 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.600 It's interesting and their message is loud and clear that 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:48.280 they want nothing to do with that person. And I 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:51.520 think it's good that you acknowledge two monds like. Estrangement 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.800 is complicated and messy, and as we've said, neither of 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:58.480 these men have really publicly spoken about the situation. They've 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:00.920 gone to great lengths to try and make us forget 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:05.280 about that. But I think, as you said, we're seeing 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.760 estrangement on the rise so much and so many people 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.159 speaking more openly about that now. And it's rare that 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:14.520 it ever comes down to one incident. It's usually a 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.800 sequence of incidents, right that lead to the severing of ties. 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:21.840 Yeah, there's an Australian researcher, Kylie Aglius, and her entire 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:26.480 job is looking at how and why estrangement happens, and 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:30.520 she says there's usually three reasons. It's abuse, it's poor 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:35.040 parenting and values differences, or a sort of an ongoing 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:38.840 disconnection from the parent rather than one single incident that 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.760 causes an estrangement, and most, she says, have cycled through 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:45.800 periods of cutting off and reconnecting. So, in other words, 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:49.400 going no contact usually isn't that sort of snap decision, 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:54.160 and it's very rarely mutual or symmetrical. So very few 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:58.120 people actually want to be estranged from their families, which 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:00.879 is why part of the our kids these days just 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:04.560 cut people off. Kind of rhetoric that we hear sometimes 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:07.000 sort of under sells what's really going on. 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.320 Yeah, well we see that with David Beckham and Brooklyn Beckham, 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.199 like the Victorian, David have made that pretty clear that 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:15.800 they don't want to be estranged, that it's a one 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:17.480 way street, and that's kind of their play. 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:21.359 I think everything you've said here Mon's about the double 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:25.399 standards applied to the Hollywood dads is absolutely correct. But 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:27.840 at the same time, I do think that the way 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:31.200 we're talking about estrangement in our culture, it is getting 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:36.440 more sophisticated. And exhibit A on this is McCauley Culkin. 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:41.159 Because in the nineteen nineties, I'm sure you remember the headlines. 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:46.040 Every newspaper ran a story saying that McCauley Culkin had 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.239 divorced his parents. Do you remember this right? It was 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:53.800 a huge talking point throughout that decade. And it turns 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:56.399 out that the headline that we all remember from this 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:58.720 is just wildly inaccurate. 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:01.240 So basically, yeah, it's not right. 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:04.760 Our understanding of this, our collective understanding of this story 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:08.960 is wrong. So basically what happened was stories circulated that 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:12.720 at fifteen, Coulkin sued his parents for millions and he 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:15.960 divorced them as legal guardians to stop them from controlling 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:16.760 his finances. 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:19.800 But what actually happened, and McCauley has talked about this. 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.240 He's now forty five, if you can believe it, he's 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:24.560 talked about this quite a bit in recent years. He 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:27.480 took his parents' names off his trust fund and he 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.160 found someone to manage it who was not related to him, 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:33.919 which you might say is a fairly savvy business move. Yeah, 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.920 he hasn't spoken to his father kit in thirty years though, 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:38.719 and he's described him as a monster. 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:41.480 He said that he was abusive. 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:44.920 McCauley has two kids himself now with Brenda Song, and 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:47.119 he's spoken about how he doesn't want to be like 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:50.040 his father. His father was a frustrated actor, and McCauley 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:54.119 has kind of intimated that he took out his frustrations 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:58.120 on McCauley. But meanwhile, when McCauley sued his parents, they 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:00.840 were locked in this costly breakup battle in the courts. 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:04.760 Their relationship was breaking down, and his mum, Patricia Bentrap 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:09.359 one custody of the Coulkin kids and McCaulay and incidentally 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:12.840 his brother Kieran, who you know from films and TV. 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:16.439 They are still close with Patricia, and Kieran thanked her 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:19.560 when he won an oscar last year. So in a way, 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:23.200 this is another deadbeat Hollywood dad's story. But in the 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:27.159 nineteen nineties both his parents were just painted with this 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:31.879 very broad brush of irresponsible, exploitative and were not given 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:35.560 that new once. I guess we just have to understand 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:39.439 that these kids, as we might want to refer to 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.719 them as these are adults. Now they're making adult decisions 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:46.800 that are not based on their mothers manipulating them. That 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:49.800 are not based, as you pointed out, monds on single incidents. 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:53.520 They're based on a lifetime of experience. And we wish 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:55.600 them all the best because it's not going to be easy. Yeah. 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.720 This week Australia's E Safety Commissioner has released what can 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:03.600 only be described as a chilling warning for Australian schools. 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:08.040 I think this is absolutely a water shared moment for parenting. 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:09.520 The warning to. 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:13.080 Schools is that there is simply no safe way to 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:17.760 share images of children online. And this is because pictures 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:21.399 of students in school uniform are especially at risk of 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:24.439 AI manipulation and of being turned into deep fakes. 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:29.879 Yeah, not just kids, teachers, tea teachers in school and 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:34.000