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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Muma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to mummea out loud where women come to debrief.

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Speaker 3: I am Jesse Stevens, I'm MEA Friedman, and I'm m Burnham.

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Speaker 3: And here's what's on our agenda for today, Wednesday, the

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Speaker 3: second of July. The story you've seen everywhere today and

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Speaker 3: the question it raises about childcare.

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Speaker 4: What happens when glow up culture meets girl boss culture.

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Speaker 4: We have a wave of Kardashian's detailing exactly what plastic

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Speaker 4: surgery they've had, and we don't know if this is

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Speaker 4: a good or a bad thing for the beauty standards

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Speaker 4: that we all swim in.

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Speaker 2: And a highly divisive management approach that is centered around

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Speaker 2: one single question.

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Speaker 3: News out of this morning, US President Donald Trump announced

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Speaker 3: that Israel has agreed to conditions to finalize the sixty

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Speaker 3: day Gaza ceasefire. Trump posted on social media he wrote,

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Speaker 3: I hope for the good of the Middle East that

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Speaker 3: her mass takes the deal, because it will not get better,

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Speaker 3: it will only get worse. And this comes before Trump

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Speaker 3: hosts Prime Minister Benjamin netnah Who at the White House

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Speaker 3: to discuss Iran and Gaza. Israeli newspaper Haaretz has described

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Speaker 3: netnia Who as the only person in the world who

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Speaker 3: wants this war to continue, with former Israeli Prime Minister

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Speaker 3: Ayud Almayer saying he can no longer defend Israel against

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Speaker 3: accusations of war crimes. What is happening in Palestine. The

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Speaker 3: Uennas described Gaza as the hungriest place on Earth. The

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Speaker 3: killing of civilians, parents losing children, The health system is

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Speaker 3: at breaking point. Ninety four percent of hospitals have been

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Speaker 3: damaged or destroyed.

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Speaker 4: It is so distressing, and just on this topic more broadly,

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Speaker 4: out louders, we want to be completely transparent with you.

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Speaker 4: As many of you know, I am a proud Jewish

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Speaker 4: woman and I have family in Israel, but that does not,

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Speaker 4: for a single moment, interfere with my capacity, like so

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Speaker 4: many Jewish people, to feel deep grief and horror at

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Speaker 4: the plight of the Palestinian people and the plight of

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Speaker 4: civilians who've suffered and continue to suffer in that region

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Speaker 4: over the last twenty one months. Since the horrific massacre

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Speaker 4: on October the seventh and the unfolding horror of the

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Speaker 4: war that's followed has meant that we've had many, many

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Speaker 4: conversations about this. Many of the conversations have been off Mike,

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Speaker 4: some have been on Mike. We've spoken about Gaza, We've

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Speaker 4: spoken about the massacre, We've spoken about the hostages, about

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Speaker 4: net and Yahoo. This is the stuff of absolute nightmares,

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Speaker 4: and they're nightmares that have deeply divided you, our audience,

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Speaker 4: and at many times have really seemed to us and

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Speaker 4: to you to be beyond civil discourse, because every time

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Speaker 4: we've covered this topic, we've hurt and angered listeners without

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Speaker 4: meaning to. We know that of more than fifty six

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Speaker 4: thousand Palestinians killed, the United Nations has verified that nearly

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Speaker 4: seventy percent of these deaths have been of women and children,

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Speaker 4: and they've also reported that one in five people in

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Speaker 4: Gaza are facing starvation. Currently, we are looking at a

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Speaker 4: humanitarian crisis that feels so deeply distressing, no matter what

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Speaker 4: country you live in, or what religion you are, or

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Speaker 4: how often you post about it on social media. And

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Speaker 4: on the days that we haven't spoken about it on

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Speaker 4: Mike and on the show, it is not because we're

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Speaker 4: not thinking about it. It's not because we don't care.

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Speaker 4: We do care, and we just want peace. We are

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Speaker 4: praying for a ceasefire and for there to be peace,

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Speaker 4: and we know that you are too.

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Speaker 3: We have links in the show notes to aid organizations

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Speaker 3: which we have donated to. If you are feeling as

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Speaker 3: helpless as we are, then please contribute. But we also

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Speaker 3: acknowledge the danger for a lot of Palestinians of even

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Speaker 3: accessing aid.

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Speaker 4: Right now.

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Speaker 2: Out loud as We'll be back in a moment with

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Speaker 2: the rest of the show. So if you were to

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Speaker 2: tell your manager right now, say a producer Ruth, that

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Speaker 2: you are leaving the company to go work for someone else,

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Speaker 2: do you think she will fight to keep you?

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Speaker 4: She better?

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Speaker 2: She better. So it's a question at the center of

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Speaker 2: this really highly divisive management strategy called the keeper test.

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Speaker 2: And this was actually launched by one of Netflix co founders,

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Speaker 2: and it's still a management practice that Netflix does till

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Speaker 2: this day.

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Speaker 4: It's really interesting I've read about this before because it's

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Speaker 4: not just something that you apply when someone says they're leaving,

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Speaker 4: because often by the time someone says they're leaving, it's

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Speaker 4: kind of too late, and there are other things in play.

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Speaker 4: It's more when you're working out whether you want to

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Speaker 4: promote someone or making any decisions about their career as

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Speaker 4: their manager, you ask yourself, if they left, would I

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Speaker 4: fight to keep them?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 5: Yeh?

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Speaker 4: Does that make sense?

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Speaker 2: But I think it's also something that you can use

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Speaker 2: as the employees. As the employee to get feedback and

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Speaker 2: kind of put your manager on this, but like just

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Speaker 2: telling them like, hey, if I was going to go

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Speaker 2: to a competitor right now, how hard would you fight

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Speaker 2: to keep me?

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Speaker 3: So the question is how much my valued? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: How much am I valued? And the idea is that

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Speaker 2: you want your company to have high, high performers, so

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Speaker 2: you know how so many companies are like, we're not

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Speaker 2: a company, We're a family. The keeper's tests are saying, no,

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Speaker 2: shouldn't be a family. It should be a high performing

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Speaker 2: sports team. So like sports team, you want the best

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Speaker 2: of the best. You want athletes, you want top of

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Speaker 2: their game. That should be the same in companies.

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Speaker 3: I have so much to say about this.

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Speaker 4: This segments also brought to you by capitalism.

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Speaker 3: Okay, companies should not be like families. Companies should not

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Speaker 3: be like professional sports teams. Companies should be like a workplace.

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Speaker 3: And we should stop trying to make them other things workplaces.

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Speaker 3: The thing about a sports team or an athlete is that,

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Speaker 3: as someone who is now an expert in Formula one,

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Speaker 3: I'm stealing a spot spot the amount of investment that

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Speaker 3: goes into an athlete from Like in Australia, I went

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Speaker 3: to the Australian Institute of Sport. On the taxpayer dollar.

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Speaker 3: You were trained, you probably got given a performance psychologist.

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Speaker 3: You are being given the big bucks to perform, right,

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Speaker 3: That's an enormous amount of investment to treat your junior

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Speaker 3: admin assistant who's been here for two and a half

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Speaker 3: weeks the same as a sportsperson. Is so ludicrous to

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Speaker 3: me because we cannot invest.

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Speaker 4: Though, because I think for both the employee and the employer,

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Speaker 4: you want people who are going to thrive in whatever

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Speaker 4: role they're in, right, and so to thrive in a

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Speaker 4: role you have to be able to do it well.

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Speaker 3: Yes, but don't you think that you have to give

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Speaker 3: them time. You have to let them attempt that role

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Speaker 3: in an atmosphere that isn't filled with fear and pressure.

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Speaker 3: Like I know that as an employee, if I feel watched,

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Speaker 3: that's when I'll start making lots and lots of mistakes,

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Speaker 3: right Like, I look at this and I think I

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Speaker 3: almost get defensive because I think if this was why

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Speaker 3: I would.

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Speaker 4: Someone be watching you in that way if you're doing

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Speaker 4: a good.

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Speaker 3: Job well, because if you're constantly going, let's rank people,

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Speaker 3: let's go who's a performer, who's a regrettable loss, who

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Speaker 3: can we afford to lose, blah blah blah, and treating

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Speaker 3: it like a professional sports team, then we're going, you

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Speaker 3: know what, Jesse made two mistakes today, and then we

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Speaker 3: become almost like hyper vigilant at the surveillance on Jesse.

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Speaker 3: That makes me make a moose.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I get that, but I've never been in a

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Speaker 4: management meeting where it's like this person made one mistake

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Speaker 4: or two mistakes. If this person is making mistakes every day,

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Speaker 4: then they're not suited for that role, and it's not

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Speaker 4: good for them or the business or their coworkers to

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Speaker 4: keep them in that role.

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Speaker 2: Just for vibes, I kind of say both of your points.

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Speaker 2: I actually think it should be kind of a sports

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Speaker 2: environment because I think, similar to as you said, like

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Speaker 2: with the F one drivers, that company does invest a

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Speaker 2: lot into the drivers, and I think companies should invest

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Speaker 2: a lot into their employees. Like if you have a

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Speaker 2: high performer employee that you don't want to lose, you

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Speaker 2: need to show them that you need to invest in

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Speaker 2: that person. You need to give them promotions when they

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Speaker 2: deserve a promotion. You need to give them pay rising

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Speaker 2: when you to deserve pay rises. And that's how you

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Speaker 2: can keep your best performing athletes in the company, like

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Speaker 2: you have a bigger retention for them.

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Speaker 3: I also reckon, though.

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Speaker 4: But that's management when I want that's not.

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Speaker 3: Like I reckon though. What I was reading between the

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Speaker 3: lines when I was reading about the keeper test is

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Speaker 3: I went, this cannot be untangled from an American context,

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Speaker 3: And by that I mean in the US you can

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Speaker 3: fire and employee tomorrow, like their employment laws are very

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Speaker 3: different to Australia. So the idea of a keeper test

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Speaker 3: where you can kind of look at everyone as a

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Speaker 3: team and go, yeah, m isn't performing, let's get rid

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Speaker 3: of them, and let's get this person in that right

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Speaker 3: there isn't want to be culture.

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Speaker 4: So what you're pushing back on is the culture of

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Speaker 4: it being cutthroat.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I get that, but if you.

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Speaker 4: Talk about the team analogy, when you think about a team,

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Speaker 4: let's say a netball team. If your goal attack isn't

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Speaker 4: performing well, you have an obligation to the rest of

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Speaker 4: the team to replace her or help her to improve.

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Speaker 4: You can't just go, oh, well, she's trying, because, like

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Speaker 4: in a business, if you've got someone who's not thriving

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Speaker 4: in their role, that impacts on everybody in the team.

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Speaker 4: So as an employer, you have an obligation to your customers,

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Speaker 4: to your staff, to your shareholders, whoever, but definitely to

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Speaker 4: your other staff to either find a role that's better

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Speaker 4: suited to them or replace them with someone who can

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Speaker 4: do that role better.

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Speaker 2: I think what Netflix did wrong with the keeper test

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Speaker 2: is that they made it public knowledge that they're doing

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Speaker 2: a keeper test. And I think when you're an employee

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Speaker 2: and you know that there's this huge management strategy that

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Speaker 2: if you don't perform, you're going to be kicked out.

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Speaker 2: You're just living in fear every single day, and you would,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, not contribute to brainstorms because you're scared

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Speaker 2: you'll have the wrong idea.

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Speaker 1: You might not own up to mistakes because you're sched

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Speaker 1: you'll be fired.

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Speaker 2: I think it can do real damage to the actual

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Speaker 2: overall of the company, and you'll just have these three

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Speaker 2: people at the top who are just the high performance

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Speaker 2: work succeeding in that one type of environment.

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Speaker 4: Is it like so controversial to want people to be

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Speaker 4: good at their job.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's about that. I think it's about

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Speaker 3: the culture that you create, right, because if you want

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Speaker 3: a culture where people can take risks, where people can

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Speaker 3: make mistakes.

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Speaker 4: Depends on the industry. If you're an air traffic controller,

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Speaker 4: that's not the culture you want where people can make

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Speaker 4: mistakes and take risks. So I think it's incredibly dependent

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Speaker 4: on the type of job you're talking about and the

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Speaker 4: industry that you're talking about.

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Speaker 3: But the sense that your employment could be terminated at

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Speaker 3: any point.

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Speaker 4: Which it can't industrate, which you can't.

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Speaker 3: In Australia, but it can in sort of the Netflix example,

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Speaker 3: there's all these studies about what it does to employee

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Speaker 3: satisfaction and like from absenteeism to reduce productivity, to anxiety

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Speaker 3: stress related health issues.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there have been some reviews of people who have

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Speaker 2: worked on Netflix. So a former Netflix executive assistant said

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Speaker 2: terrifying with anxiety twenty four to seven.

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Speaker 3: Also, the cost of turnover can be like turnover may

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Speaker 3: or you all know this. You know something about business

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Speaker 3: isn't turnover like expense even time consuming, Like you don't

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Speaker 3: constantly want staff turnover. You just want to keep the

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Speaker 3: good people right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what the keeper tooth do.

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Speaker 3: The keeper test encourages turnover, but.

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Speaker 4: Don't ever start a business. I think what you're talking

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Speaker 4: about is a charity. No.

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Speaker 3: I think because this was saying that the turnover becomes

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Speaker 3: too high, so you would look around and you would redundancy,

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Speaker 3: being like you're out, you're out, you're out, you're out,

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Speaker 3: And it's like the cost of retraining people is.

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Speaker 4: That's why I think that you want to do that

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Speaker 4: at the point of employment, yes, not once they're in.

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Speaker 4: So the trick is to really refine and we've learned

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Speaker 4: a lot about this over the last sort of twenty

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Speaker 4: years of running Mama Maa. You want to spend a

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Speaker 4: lot of time making sure the fit's right, because just

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Speaker 4: because if it's not right at one place doesn't mean

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Speaker 4: there's anything wrong with that person or anything wrong with

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Speaker 4: that company. It just means it fit's not right. It's

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Speaker 4: like any relationship. You can have two great people, but

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Speaker 4: they're just not right together. So for the benefit of

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Speaker 4: the business, for the benefit of the employee, you always

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Speaker 4: want to spend time making sure that fits as right

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Speaker 4: as possible. Now, sometimes you just can't tell until it happens,

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Speaker 4: and it's it's never easy when when the fit's not right,

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Speaker 4: but usually people know they can feel it. I know

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Speaker 4: I've felt it when I've been in that situation.

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Speaker 3: I think that what you would want to do is

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Speaker 3: create a workplace, not a sports team, that kind of

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Speaker 3: invests in everyone and gives people time. I think that's

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Speaker 3: the other thing to learn how to do their roles right.

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Speaker 3: And as you say, Maya, sometimes it's just not kind

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Speaker 3: to leave people in a job that they're incapable of

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Speaker 3: doing it.

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Speaker 4: It's never kind.

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Speaker 3: And so I completely understand, you know, freeing up that.

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Speaker 4: Person's future, freeing up their future.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I am like allergic to the cutthroat sports

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Speaker 3: team analogy. I do not play professional sport and stop

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Speaker 3: reading very reason for a very good reason, and it

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Speaker 3: is my needs the.

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Speaker 2: Quick heads up. This next segment discusses distressing content. Please

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Speaker 2: take care.

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Speaker 3: On Yesterday, the name and face of an alleged male

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Speaker 3: sex offender charged with seventy sex offenses against toddlers and

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Speaker 3: babies at a childcare center in Point Cook in Melbourne

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Speaker 3: Southwest was published. The police and the Victorian state government,

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Speaker 3: including the Premier, called a joint press conference and here's

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Speaker 3: some of what Acting Commander Janet Stevenson said.

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Speaker 4: This is unique. It's very important to ensure that every

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Speaker 4: parent out there that has a child in childcare knows

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Speaker 4: who he is and where he worked.

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Speaker 3: More than one thousand children are being asked to undergo

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Speaker 3: health screenings for infectious diseases. The alleged defender had worked

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Speaker 3: at about twenty facilities since twenty seventeen and he had

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Speaker 3: a valid working with Children check and no formal complaints

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Speaker 3: against him, according to police. And it's difficult to put

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Speaker 3: words around how distressing it is to see headlines like this.

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Speaker 3: With approximately one million Australian families having a child or

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Speaker 3: children currently looked after by childcare services.

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Speaker 4: There's no one who hasn't had a chill just go

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Speaker 4: through them. Yeah, you know there's a million children in

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Speaker 4: care now, but it would be hard to find someone

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Speaker 4: in Australia who either was not in childcare themselves or

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Speaker 4: hasn't put their child or a family member into childcare

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Speaker 4: at some stage.

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Speaker 3: I think the added distress of headlines like this is

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Speaker 3: that it is referring to toddlers and babies who can't

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Speaker 3: speak yet, and there's something about the vulnerability of those

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Speaker 3: alleged victims that I think is particularly distressing to people.

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Speaker 3: It is given way to a predictable conversation highlighted by

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Speaker 3: the Age this morning in an article headlined innocent male

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Speaker 3: childcare workers likely to be driven from sector. Among those

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Speaker 3: interviewed was my brother Nick Stevens, who has worked in

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Speaker 3: early childhood for about twelve years. He sent us a

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Speaker 3: voice note this morning after reading these headlines about the

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Speaker 3: impact on male educators in the sector.

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Speaker 6: The recent news is going to have, I would say,

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Speaker 6: a pretty significant impact on men working with children. Before

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Speaker 6: this case even came out, I spoke to a few

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Speaker 6: different men who weren't allowed to even enter the bathrooms

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Speaker 6: at some early childhood services. So after this news that

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Speaker 6: will probably become more common. I think particularly there'll be

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Speaker 6: issues with men working with babies and doing any kind

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Speaker 6: of nappy changing with babies, and also other men in

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Speaker 6: early childhood have been speaking about generally, what happens after

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Speaker 6: these cases is there's a pretty significant exodus of men

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Speaker 6: who just quit the profession altogether.

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Speaker 3: Look, this response and fear by parents is totally understandable.

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Speaker 3: Parents are horrified and scared. Maya, do you think it

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Speaker 3: will lead to a broader distrust of my educators.

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Speaker 4: I think it will takes me really sad because I've

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Speaker 4: seen firsthand the impact that your brothers have and my

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Speaker 4: children all went to a day care that was run

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Speaker 4: by the most extraordinary director of that center, and he

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Speaker 4: was one of the most impactful teachers of their whole

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Speaker 4: you know, school experience or the preschool experience. I feel

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Speaker 4: for everybody. I feel for all child care workers because

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Speaker 4: it's interesting. You know that my understanding was that there

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Speaker 4: are rules and laws. I haven't had a child in

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Speaker 4: day care for about thirteen or fourteen years, but my

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Speaker 4: understanding is that there were certainly in the one that

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Speaker 4: I sent my kids to, there were rules about open areas.

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Speaker 4: There were no like cubby houses. There was nowhere that

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Speaker 4: a child could be either with another child or with

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Speaker 4: an adult that couldn't be seen, that wasn't sort of transparent.

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Speaker 4: It was quite strict. But I also know it's interesting

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Speaker 4: because parents are going to want all these reassurances, and

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Speaker 4: people have said things like no phones, there shouldn't be

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Speaker 4: phones allowed. But the other thing that I've noticed is

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Speaker 4: over the last sort of five or ten years is

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Speaker 4: the demand by parents for this sort of constant communication.

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Speaker 4: Now some may say that's because they're anxious and they

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Speaker 4: want to know that their child's okay, but it's more

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Speaker 4: just like they want a constant update and narrations. And

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Speaker 4: this goes all the way through school. How the kids

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Speaker 4: are doing, and what do they do that day, and

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Speaker 4: where are the photos? And can I see a video,

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Speaker 4: which is a huge burden on childcare workers who should

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Speaker 4: have to just be with the kids. And of course

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Speaker 4: all of that has to happen on phones. So it's

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Speaker 4: really hard to know. When there are stories like this,

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Speaker 4: people want to go, well, here's what we should do,

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Speaker 4: and here's what should stop, and here's what should start.

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Speaker 4: And there's definitely a time and a point for doing that,

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Speaker 4: but I think we should also just have a moment

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Speaker 4: to just express how incredibly awful it is for everybody involved.

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Speaker 2: Because I'm not in the parenting world. So what Nick

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Speaker 2: said about how people before the case like approached men

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Speaker 2: who work in these actors that was quite surprising to

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Speaker 2: me because when I talk about men who work in

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Speaker 2: these sorts of roles with my friends, it's seen us

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Speaker 2: like quite an endearing quality. Like for us, it's like

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Speaker 2: they're caring, high emotional intelligence. We have probably similar values.

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Speaker 2: So is there some sort of I guess, unconscious gender

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Speaker 2: bias when it comes to choosing who looks after your child.

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Speaker 4: I don't think it's unconscious, right.

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Speaker 3: It's really interesting that you say that, because over the

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Speaker 3: years covering on mum Mayor as well, we've had people

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Speaker 3: write in. It's been kind of a very lively discussion

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Speaker 3: of people saying I do not want my child going

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Speaker 3: to a center where there are even male educators. And

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Speaker 3: I want to give a little bit of grace to

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Speaker 3: the people asking for that, because in some instances they

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Speaker 3: were victims themselves of abuse and they have very valid

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Speaker 3: and understandable fear about men. And then you have other

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Speaker 3: male educators who are told not to change nappies. There

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Speaker 3: was a story SBS covered last year of a man

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Speaker 3: who went for an interview and was told by the

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Speaker 3: center the parents don't want male educators, We're not going

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Speaker 3: to take you, which looks like gender discrimination, right, And

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Speaker 3: especially at a time when we're trying to get more

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Speaker 3: women in STEM and in engineering and in construction and

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Speaker 3: in these really male dominated industries. In order for that

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Speaker 3: to happen, we've got to also address the gender imbalance

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Speaker 3: in childcare. It's a bit hard to know the numbers

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Speaker 3: for sure, but about four percent they think men, so

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Speaker 3: it's really really small, and a lot of childcare workers,

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Speaker 3: female childcare workers will say the male presence is really important,

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Speaker 3: especially for kids who don't have a male role model.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of talk about toxic masculinity in raising boys,

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Speaker 3: and having a male presence, who might play differently, who

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Speaker 3: might talk differently, who might take them outdoors more or whatever,

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Speaker 3: makes a real difference to a center. So it's such

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Speaker 3: a shame. And we should acknowledge as well that the

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Speaker 3: alleged victims here are the children and of course the parents.

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Speaker 3: And this is another discuss about what we do going forward.

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Speaker 3: And I think no one acknowledges that more than male educators.

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Speaker 4: If this is weaponized by people who don't believe children

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Speaker 4: should be in daycare, I will lose it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because is that a thing.

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Speaker 4: I feel like that's going to happen in about three seconds.

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Speaker 3: I also saw something going around which I bristled at,

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Speaker 3: which was about signs that something may have happened to

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Speaker 3: your child, and I just thought, can we take a

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Speaker 3: breath before we put any hint, anything, bit of blame

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Speaker 3: on parents.

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Speaker 4: I didn't read that as blame. I read that as

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Speaker 4: advice and things that you might not realize are signs.

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Speaker 3: I read that as helpful interesting. I just I feel so,

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Speaker 3: you know, there are out louders from Melbourne who will

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Speaker 3: be especially impacted by this news. I think this opens

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Speaker 3: a conversation about how we keep kids safe, which is

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Speaker 3: something that everyone agrees on, and I think that male

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Speaker 3: educators will be it forefront of that because they really care.

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Speaker 3: And that's a conversation for the whole community.

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Speaker 2: If you or someone you know needs to speak to

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Speaker 2: someone off the back of this segment, you can contact

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Speaker 2: the National Sexual Abuse and Readness Support Service on one

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Speaker 2: eight hundred two double one zero two eight or one

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Speaker 2: eight hundred respect the National Domestic Family and Sexual Violence

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Speaker 2: Counseling Service on one eight hundred seven three seven seven

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00:21:33,141 --> 00:21:35,462
Speaker 2: three to two. There'll be links in the show notes

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00:21:35,502 --> 00:21:36,702
Speaker 2: to all of those resources.

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Speaker 4: We're going to take a little break and then we're

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Speaker 4: going to change gears and talk about the new radical

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Speaker 4: era of celebrity surgery transparency.

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Speaker 3: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday

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Speaker 3: and Thursday exclusively for Muma MEA subscribers. Follow the link

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Speaker 3: in the show notes to get us in your ears

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Speaker 3: five days a week. And a huge thank you to

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Speaker 3: all our current subscribers.

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Speaker 4: In case you missed it. There's good news for people

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Speaker 4: and bad news for scammers because the Commonwealth Bank has

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Speaker 4: announced this week that they're deploying an army of aibots

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Speaker 4: that sound like humans and their job is to scam

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00:22:25,502 --> 00:22:26,141
Speaker 4: the scammers.

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00:22:26,222 --> 00:22:29,141
Speaker 3: Okay, explain to me you lost me at army AI bots.

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00:22:29,182 --> 00:22:30,221
Speaker 3: How does this actually.

438
00:22:29,982 --> 00:22:33,061
Speaker 4: Help scaring a lot of people have just completely disassociated

439
00:22:33,101 --> 00:22:33,901
Speaker 4: at this point.

440
00:22:34,222 --> 00:22:35,022
Speaker 1: Well, let me.

441
00:22:34,942 --> 00:22:36,942
Speaker 4: Give you a bit of context. Three zero point one

442
00:22:36,942 --> 00:22:40,741
Speaker 4: percent of Australian's age fifteen and over, so about almost

443
00:22:40,742 --> 00:22:44,302
Speaker 4: seven hundred thousand people were victims of scams last year.

444
00:22:44,782 --> 00:22:47,821
Speaker 4: The most common types of scams that were reported, and

445
00:22:47,861 --> 00:22:50,901
Speaker 4: only fifty four percent of people actually report scams. A

446
00:22:50,942 --> 00:22:54,862
Speaker 4: lot of people feel too ashamed, they don't realize they're confused.

447
00:22:55,182 --> 00:22:57,542
Speaker 3: I spoke on the podcast about my grandfather who were

448
00:22:57,581 --> 00:23:00,142
Speaker 3: scammed out of tens of thousands of dollars and when

449
00:23:00,182 --> 00:23:04,022
Speaker 3: he went to the bank that telecried because she saw

450
00:23:04,061 --> 00:23:04,701
Speaker 3: what had happened.

451
00:23:04,942 --> 00:23:07,821
Speaker 4: It's so devastating. The most common types of scams that

452
00:23:07,942 --> 00:23:14,341
Speaker 4: were reported were investments, romance scams, payment redirection, remote access,

453
00:23:14,542 --> 00:23:15,821
Speaker 4: and phishing scam.

454
00:23:15,942 --> 00:23:17,821
Speaker 3: So a lot of them are like I think for him,

455
00:23:17,982 --> 00:23:20,302
Speaker 3: it was this text message about tax. Often you'll get

456
00:23:20,302 --> 00:23:22,382
Speaker 3: a text message just like it's tax time. Do this,

457
00:23:22,462 --> 00:23:24,782
Speaker 3: do that, and then you click on the link. They

458
00:23:24,901 --> 00:23:27,501
Speaker 3: get your bank details and next thing you know, money's

459
00:23:27,502 --> 00:23:29,381
Speaker 3: disappearing from your account exactly.

460
00:23:29,581 --> 00:23:31,861
Speaker 4: So more than one hundred and forty million dollars was

461
00:23:31,861 --> 00:23:35,022
Speaker 4: transferred to scammers, oh my god, in the last financial year,

462
00:23:35,101 --> 00:23:37,942
Speaker 4: just from Australia. And as you say, Jesse, they're often

463
00:23:37,942 --> 00:23:43,021
Speaker 4: really vulnerable people, so elderly, lonely, people who aren't tech savvy,

464
00:23:43,182 --> 00:23:46,022
Speaker 4: or for whom English is not their first language.

465
00:23:46,061 --> 00:23:48,901
Speaker 2: But they're getting really good now Like I've fallen for

466
00:23:48,982 --> 00:23:49,661
Speaker 2: a scam.

467
00:23:49,942 --> 00:23:50,142
Speaker 6: Yeah.

468
00:23:50,182 --> 00:23:54,022
Speaker 4: I intinued a woman on No Filter and she was

469
00:23:54,542 --> 00:23:58,422
Speaker 4: actually like a money writer for New York magazine and

470
00:23:58,462 --> 00:24:00,622
Speaker 4: she'd beaten a journalist who worked at the Wall Street Journal,

471
00:24:00,621 --> 00:24:03,621
Speaker 4: because there's all these preconceptions about who will get taken

472
00:24:03,661 --> 00:24:05,901
Speaker 4: by a scam. And I know I mentioned vulnerable people,

473
00:24:06,222 --> 00:24:08,821
Speaker 4: but she was highly educated, went to an amazing you know,

474
00:24:08,861 --> 00:24:14,181
Speaker 4: Ivy League unversity, worked in finance essentially, and she found

475
00:24:14,182 --> 00:24:17,661
Speaker 4: herself putting all this money in a bag, her life savings.

476
00:24:17,702 --> 00:24:19,821
Speaker 4: I think it was like fifty thousand dollars and handing

477
00:24:19,821 --> 00:24:21,422
Speaker 4: it to a stranger in the back of a car

478
00:24:21,901 --> 00:24:25,101
Speaker 4: within about ten hours of getting her the first call

479
00:24:25,621 --> 00:24:28,421
Speaker 4: that from this scamm So what these bots are going

480
00:24:28,502 --> 00:24:31,381
Speaker 4: to do? They sound like humans, and they're going to

481
00:24:31,462 --> 00:24:35,262
Speaker 4: make themselves sort of non human targets for scammers and

482
00:24:35,302 --> 00:24:39,181
Speaker 4: really waste their time on the phone. So here's an

483
00:24:39,222 --> 00:24:42,262
Speaker 4: example of one of these AI bots that the combank

484
00:24:42,381 --> 00:24:45,022
Speaker 4: is going to be deploying, wasting a scammer's time.

485
00:24:45,502 --> 00:24:47,901
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, you're not going to ask me for my

486
00:24:47,982 --> 00:24:53,582
Speaker 5: credit card or something, right, I mean, I've seen stories

487
00:24:53,621 --> 00:24:57,141
Speaker 5: in the news about people losing money, and frankly, I

488
00:24:57,182 --> 00:24:59,742
Speaker 5: don't want to be making the news anytime soon. If

489
00:24:59,742 --> 00:25:02,101
Speaker 5: I want to be honest with you, I have enough

490
00:25:02,141 --> 00:25:05,982
Speaker 5: things going on. Okay, I don't remember ordering anything.

491
00:25:06,621 --> 00:25:10,822
Speaker 6: Our inspection have found undeclared electronic device and prohibited medicine

492
00:25:10,861 --> 00:25:15,422
Speaker 6: inside and this might be abolican of Australian customs laws.

493
00:25:15,462 --> 00:25:19,101
Speaker 5: Well that wait, exactly what exactly I mean? This is

494
00:25:19,141 --> 00:25:20,222
Speaker 5: not like I have.

495
00:25:20,422 --> 00:25:21,302
Speaker 2: Ordered these things?

496
00:25:21,821 --> 00:25:21,982
Speaker 4: Right?

497
00:25:22,302 --> 00:25:23,381
Speaker 5: Is this some sort of joke?

498
00:25:23,462 --> 00:25:23,821
Speaker 6: Mate?

499
00:25:24,022 --> 00:25:26,742
Speaker 4: So you can hear that the victims that aren't real

500
00:25:27,022 --> 00:25:29,381
Speaker 4: sound really real. And not only are they going to

501
00:25:29,702 --> 00:25:34,701
Speaker 4: waste time and divert these scammers from actually contacting human people,

502
00:25:35,462 --> 00:25:37,141
Speaker 4: but they're also going to be gathering a lot of

503
00:25:37,182 --> 00:25:39,662
Speaker 4: intelligence about the methods that they use and the phrases

504
00:25:39,702 --> 00:25:44,101
Speaker 4: that they use to help protect people in future spam calls.

505
00:25:44,101 --> 00:25:48,022
Speaker 2: For me is something that makes me so genuinely angry,

506
00:25:48,422 --> 00:25:50,821
Speaker 2: like I actually scream at them on the phone, to

507
00:25:50,861 --> 00:25:53,101
Speaker 2: the point where I now hear my phone settings that

508
00:25:53,262 --> 00:25:56,461
Speaker 2: I silence all unsaved numbers like your phone can automatically

509
00:25:56,462 --> 00:25:58,502
Speaker 2: do that in the settings, and I miss so many,

510
00:25:58,661 --> 00:26:00,981
Speaker 2: Like my grandma. We don't know what's wrong with her landline,

511
00:26:01,022 --> 00:26:02,742
Speaker 2: but it's always sad on private, so I never get

512
00:26:02,782 --> 00:26:04,982
Speaker 2: a call from her ever because my phone is automatic

513
00:26:05,022 --> 00:26:06,222
Speaker 2: silence that it's really annoying.

514
00:26:06,462 --> 00:26:08,581
Speaker 4: Have you ever shouted at someone thinking that they were

515
00:26:08,621 --> 00:26:11,942
Speaker 4: a scammer, but they are actually worn't I've done that.

516
00:26:11,942 --> 00:26:13,982
Speaker 4: That's why I don't shout. I'm always just like I'll

517
00:26:13,982 --> 00:26:16,381
Speaker 4: hang up for I won't answer, but I'm like, please,

518
00:26:16,422 --> 00:26:18,461
Speaker 4: don't ever call me again. And it called back and

519
00:26:18,502 --> 00:26:22,141
Speaker 4: it was like a doctor's reception trying to deliver something

520
00:26:22,141 --> 00:26:22,381
Speaker 4: to me.

521
00:26:22,861 --> 00:26:26,821
Speaker 3: I remember speaking to an AI expert and like a

522
00:26:27,022 --> 00:26:29,341
Speaker 3: chief scientist, right I was. I was speaking to them

523
00:26:29,381 --> 00:26:31,981
Speaker 3: at this event and they were both telling me that

524
00:26:32,422 --> 00:26:36,422
Speaker 3: if banks tomorrow wanted to stop scammers, they could. It's

525
00:26:36,462 --> 00:26:38,821
Speaker 3: about will and it's about the investment, like it's going

526
00:26:38,901 --> 00:26:41,221
Speaker 3: to cost money, but they have the technology to stop it.

527
00:26:42,022 --> 00:26:46,702
Speaker 3: And look, I go on TikTok and see AI videos

528
00:26:46,702 --> 00:26:48,821
Speaker 3: of a yetti doing a day in the life. I

529
00:26:48,861 --> 00:26:51,861
Speaker 3: would much prefer us to use AI to stop the

530
00:26:51,982 --> 00:26:55,182
Speaker 3: scammers the some of the shit I'm seeing on TikTok

531
00:26:55,182 --> 00:26:55,902
Speaker 3: at the moment.

532
00:26:55,702 --> 00:26:56,662
Speaker 2: I really want to show a video.

533
00:26:56,782 --> 00:26:56,901
Speaker 5: Now.

534
00:26:57,702 --> 00:27:00,462
Speaker 2: I actually learned this trick. I mean, the thing that's

535
00:27:00,502 --> 00:27:02,341
Speaker 2: so bad about this is that you have to do

536
00:27:02,661 --> 00:27:06,101
Speaker 2: the work to stop getting these calls or these emails.

537
00:27:06,341 --> 00:27:06,741
Speaker 4: What do you do?

538
00:27:06,861 --> 00:27:07,581
Speaker 1: There's a lot of work.

539
00:27:07,581 --> 00:27:10,141
Speaker 2: And I actually learned this from our tech department at

540
00:27:10,222 --> 00:27:13,262
Speaker 2: Mama Mia, Like, if you're constantly getting spam calls, like

541
00:27:13,262 --> 00:27:14,982
Speaker 2: there was a time where I was getting probably four

542
00:27:14,982 --> 00:27:15,901
Speaker 2: spam calls.

543
00:27:15,621 --> 00:27:16,942
Speaker 3: A day, I'm on every date.

544
00:27:17,061 --> 00:27:18,702
Speaker 4: I agree, Yeah, it seems to come in way.

545
00:27:18,782 --> 00:27:21,861
Speaker 2: There are these massive, like database lists that have so

546
00:27:21,982 --> 00:27:24,581
Speaker 2: much information on you. It might have your name, your number,

547
00:27:24,982 --> 00:27:27,462
Speaker 2: your email. So what I did was I just googled

548
00:27:27,462 --> 00:27:29,302
Speaker 2: my name, my phone number, and my email and a

549
00:27:29,381 --> 00:27:31,861
Speaker 2: website popped up that was just like kind of like

550
00:27:31,861 --> 00:27:34,862
Speaker 2: a Yellow Pages but on a website. And they can

551
00:27:34,942 --> 00:27:38,181
Speaker 2: sell all your information to other websites. So can you

552
00:27:38,182 --> 00:27:40,141
Speaker 2: get your number off that You just email them or

553
00:27:40,182 --> 00:27:41,861
Speaker 2: you like tick a box, and they make it really

554
00:27:41,861 --> 00:27:43,742
Speaker 2: easy because they obviously don't want to get in trouble

555
00:27:43,982 --> 00:27:47,182
Speaker 2: and immediately they'll remove your data. But you can also

556
00:27:47,222 --> 00:27:49,542
Speaker 2: do it through the government, like the Communications branch of

557
00:27:49,581 --> 00:27:51,821
Speaker 2: the government has a do not Call register that you

558
00:27:51,821 --> 00:27:52,661
Speaker 2: can put your number in.

559
00:27:52,942 --> 00:27:55,462
Speaker 4: Do you know what I also learned is that the

560
00:27:55,782 --> 00:27:59,742
Speaker 4: leading indicator of whether you'll get scammed is not about

561
00:27:59,742 --> 00:28:02,102
Speaker 4: your education level. It's not about any of those things.

562
00:28:02,222 --> 00:28:07,101
Speaker 4: It's about whether you've been scammed before that makes you

563
00:28:07,341 --> 00:28:10,341
Speaker 4: in these lists that are sold on the dark web

564
00:28:10,782 --> 00:28:14,501
Speaker 4: of potential targets. That makes you more valuable than those lists,

565
00:28:14,661 --> 00:28:17,262
Speaker 4: because you would think if you've been scammed before, you know,

566
00:28:17,302 --> 00:28:20,101
Speaker 4: you'd be really suspicious. But it basically means that.

567
00:28:20,101 --> 00:28:22,302
Speaker 3: You're going to get targeted by smarter and smarter text.

568
00:28:22,782 --> 00:28:25,901
Speaker 4: The leading indicator of someone who doesn't get scammed is

569
00:28:25,942 --> 00:28:30,341
Speaker 4: that they've read or heard about a similar scam, which

570
00:28:30,422 --> 00:28:32,862
Speaker 4: is why the woman who I spoke to, even though

571
00:28:32,901 --> 00:28:35,182
Speaker 4: she said, look, I'm so embarrassed, I'm mortified to be

572
00:28:35,302 --> 00:28:36,662
Speaker 4: saying this. I thought it was going to be bad

573
00:28:36,702 --> 00:28:39,102
Speaker 4: for my career, all of these things, but because of

574
00:28:39,142 --> 00:28:42,542
Speaker 4: that reason, I want to help other people avoid it.

575
00:28:42,582 --> 00:28:46,741
Speaker 4: And people contacted me afterwards and said I had a

576
00:28:46,782 --> 00:28:49,102
Speaker 4: similar call because this was someone pretending to be from Amazon,

577
00:28:49,862 --> 00:28:53,142
Speaker 4: and most people have an Amazon account, so you engage

578
00:28:53,222 --> 00:28:56,142
Speaker 4: and once they've got you hooked. Some of these scams

579
00:28:56,142 --> 00:28:58,902
Speaker 4: are really elaborate, and a number of people said I

580
00:28:59,022 --> 00:29:01,982
Speaker 4: was in the middle of being scammed when I heard

581
00:29:01,982 --> 00:29:06,262
Speaker 4: this interview, and it saved me four hundred and forty

582
00:29:06,262 --> 00:29:10,342
Speaker 4: five CC moderate profile half under the muscles. Hope this

583
00:29:10,462 --> 00:29:11,102
Speaker 4: helps lol.

584
00:29:12,182 --> 00:29:14,222
Speaker 2: Do either of you know it that understand a single

585
00:29:14,222 --> 00:29:15,702
Speaker 2: word except for Lol.

586
00:29:16,302 --> 00:29:18,421
Speaker 4: I'm embarrassed to say that. If you'd read that to me,

587
00:29:18,502 --> 00:29:20,822
Speaker 4: I could have said exactly what that is. It's a

588
00:29:20,862 --> 00:29:24,221
Speaker 4: comment left by Kylie Jenner on a social media video

589
00:29:24,382 --> 00:29:27,142
Speaker 4: by a woman on TikTok asking her to share where

590
00:29:27,142 --> 00:29:30,181
Speaker 4: her boobs were from. Oh wow, and she did. She

591
00:29:30,622 --> 00:29:33,981
Speaker 4: turned up in the comments and she gave a lot

592
00:29:34,062 --> 00:29:36,782
Speaker 4: of details. And the noise that you can hear is

593
00:29:37,382 --> 00:29:41,302
Speaker 4: the impact of glow up culture crashing into hustle culture.

594
00:29:42,302 --> 00:29:42,942
Speaker 1: Because at that.

595
00:29:42,942 --> 00:29:45,662
Speaker 4: Intersection, Kylie seems to have officially declared that the age

596
00:29:45,661 --> 00:29:50,221
Speaker 4: of radical surgery transparencies here among women, certainly among celebrities.

597
00:29:50,622 --> 00:29:52,102
Speaker 4: And we know that it's not just a one off

598
00:29:52,142 --> 00:29:55,022
Speaker 4: because within a few days, her mother, Chris, confirmed that

599
00:29:55,102 --> 00:29:58,661
Speaker 4: her new face that everybody had been talking about was

600
00:29:58,702 --> 00:30:01,302
Speaker 4: thanks to the same surgeon. He's been fielding hundreds of

601
00:30:01,342 --> 00:30:03,342
Speaker 4: calls of day, as you can imagine, and his whole

602
00:30:03,382 --> 00:30:07,982
Speaker 4: email server has crashed. And then yesterday Chloe Kardashian commented

603
00:30:08,102 --> 00:30:10,582
Speaker 4: about her own cosmetic pres sieges. Now, I don't know

604
00:30:10,622 --> 00:30:13,021
Speaker 4: if you've seen these videos. Some of them are done

605
00:30:13,062 --> 00:30:15,142
Speaker 4: by civilians, and the ones that I tend to watch

606
00:30:15,182 --> 00:30:17,622
Speaker 4: are done by plastic surgeons, and they show before and

607
00:30:17,661 --> 00:30:21,542
Speaker 4: after photos of particular celebrities and all the different procedures

608
00:30:21,542 --> 00:30:24,462
Speaker 4: that they've had along the way. We can talk about

609
00:30:24,462 --> 00:30:28,182
Speaker 4: why I like them, perhaps with a therapist. But on

610
00:30:28,222 --> 00:30:31,862
Speaker 4: this post by one of these surgeons who makes these videos,

611
00:30:32,342 --> 00:30:35,062
Speaker 4: he did one on Chloe and showed all these before

612
00:30:35,062 --> 00:30:37,382
Speaker 4: and after photos, and she replied in the comments listing

613
00:30:37,422 --> 00:30:39,902
Speaker 4: all the procedures that she'd had. She was basically like, Oh,

614
00:30:39,902 --> 00:30:42,542
Speaker 4: I'm really flattered that you've done this. Some of it's right,

615
00:30:42,622 --> 00:30:44,661
Speaker 4: some of it isn't quite right, and here are the

616
00:30:44,702 --> 00:30:48,582
Speaker 4: actual details. And she listed everything from a nose job, laser,

617
00:30:48,582 --> 00:30:51,701
Speaker 4: hair removal, anti wrinkle injections.

618
00:30:51,022 --> 00:30:54,302
Speaker 1: Something about it injective and soft.

619
00:30:53,942 --> 00:30:57,422
Speaker 4: Wave laser, all these different things, filler threads, all these

620
00:30:57,462 --> 00:31:01,502
Speaker 4: different procedures. And what's interesting about all of this is

621
00:31:01,542 --> 00:31:05,262
Speaker 4: that it seems to be this new trend of a

622
00:31:05,302 --> 00:31:08,342
Speaker 4: group of women, because it's always been that people were like, oh, no,

623
00:31:08,422 --> 00:31:11,022
Speaker 4: I haven't had anything done. I mean, showan who's also

624
00:31:11,062 --> 00:31:13,622
Speaker 4: looking very different. She just says, it's just sunshine and

625
00:31:13,742 --> 00:31:17,142
Speaker 4: water share and lots of hydration. So that used to

626
00:31:17,182 --> 00:31:19,782
Speaker 4: be seen as you have to pretend that you just woke.

627
00:31:19,661 --> 00:31:20,622
Speaker 1: Up that way.

628
00:31:21,262 --> 00:31:24,742
Speaker 4: But now there's this group of women, the Kardashians, leading

629
00:31:24,782 --> 00:31:27,022
Speaker 4: the way, who want to be acknowledged for all the work,

630
00:31:27,062 --> 00:31:29,502
Speaker 4: all the money, or the pain that they endured. You know,

631
00:31:29,542 --> 00:31:32,342
Speaker 4: there's a reason basically that they call it work because

632
00:31:32,342 --> 00:31:35,822
Speaker 4: they want to be acknowledged for their work ethic in

633
00:31:35,862 --> 00:31:39,221
Speaker 4: the business of beauty and the work of beauty. Is

634
00:31:39,222 --> 00:31:40,582
Speaker 4: this a good thing? Is this a bad thing?

635
00:31:40,902 --> 00:31:45,022
Speaker 2: Em So, back in my day, I was always like.

636
00:31:45,502 --> 00:31:46,222
Speaker 1: It is your day.

637
00:31:46,982 --> 00:31:49,302
Speaker 2: Back in my day, I mean like when I was eighteen,

638
00:31:49,742 --> 00:31:52,262
Speaker 2: Like I think Kylie Jenna was the person I kind

639
00:31:52,262 --> 00:31:55,142
Speaker 2: of grew up with, and that was where lip fillers

640
00:31:55,142 --> 00:31:57,222
Speaker 2: became a whole thing. Like lip fillers were my generation.

641
00:31:57,582 --> 00:31:59,582
Speaker 2: About your age, Yeah, she's a year younger.

642
00:31:59,782 --> 00:32:01,582
Speaker 1: She denied it.

643
00:32:01,661 --> 00:32:04,502
Speaker 2: So I was there in high school overlining my lips

644
00:32:04,542 --> 00:32:07,222
Speaker 2: like crazy, looking like a clown. She had lip filler

645
00:32:07,302 --> 00:32:09,222
Speaker 2: the whole time. She didn't tell me. Her best friend

646
00:32:09,262 --> 00:32:11,701
Speaker 2: and Vernon was one of the big followers before she

647
00:32:11,782 --> 00:32:14,981
Speaker 2: hit the big one millions. And I always thought that

648
00:32:15,062 --> 00:32:17,701
Speaker 2: I'd be the type of person to be like, do

649
00:32:17,782 --> 00:32:19,782
Speaker 2: whatever you want to your face, to your body, just

650
00:32:19,822 --> 00:32:22,222
Speaker 2: tell me about it and it'll be fine, and now

651
00:32:22,222 --> 00:32:24,942
Speaker 2: they're telling me about it and I don't like.

652
00:32:24,902 --> 00:32:26,461
Speaker 3: It, and you're deeply uncomfortable with.

653
00:32:26,462 --> 00:32:29,462
Speaker 2: It and uncomfortable with it because I think I was

654
00:32:29,582 --> 00:32:33,822
Speaker 2: living in this world where some people are beautiful and

655
00:32:33,862 --> 00:32:36,062
Speaker 2: some people just are, and I was happy being the

656
00:32:36,222 --> 00:32:38,302
Speaker 2: just are because we will all just ah and I

657
00:32:38,342 --> 00:32:41,622
Speaker 2: accepted that the Kardashians were the beautiful. And now it's

658
00:32:41,661 --> 00:32:44,702
Speaker 2: the sentiment that here's how I got beautiful, and now

659
00:32:44,782 --> 00:32:46,782
Speaker 2: you can too, And I'm.

660
00:32:46,582 --> 00:32:48,382
Speaker 1: Like, I don't want to do that.

661
00:32:48,382 --> 00:32:50,822
Speaker 3: That is a hill I have no desire to climb.

662
00:32:51,102 --> 00:32:53,982
Speaker 3: It's like I want to check out of that race.

663
00:32:54,102 --> 00:32:58,102
Speaker 3: And it's consistent with the Kardashian ethos. That's sort of like,

664
00:32:58,822 --> 00:33:00,902
Speaker 3: get your f ing rs up and work. Yeah, like

665
00:33:01,382 --> 00:33:05,302
Speaker 3: that idea, be prettier, be prettier, and it's labor and

666
00:33:05,342 --> 00:33:08,622
Speaker 3: I want to be respected for it. But what it's

667
00:33:08,661 --> 00:33:15,022
Speaker 3: also doing is normalizing expensive and often very invasive cosmetic procedures.

668
00:33:15,661 --> 00:33:19,222
Speaker 3: And let's not forget that Kim Kardashian with her, there

669
00:33:19,262 --> 00:33:21,501
Speaker 3: was all that speculation about her bum and whether it

670
00:33:21,582 --> 00:33:23,741
Speaker 3: was real, and it kind of suddenly got bigger. And

671
00:33:23,782 --> 00:33:26,462
Speaker 3: then when she didn't tell us exactly what it was.

672
00:33:26,542 --> 00:33:28,701
Speaker 3: We kind of claimed that we're being gas lit, like

673
00:33:28,742 --> 00:33:31,622
Speaker 3: it was all very strange. But what it did do

674
00:33:31,742 --> 00:33:36,062
Speaker 3: was lead to this proliferation of Brazilian butt lifts, which

675
00:33:36,262 --> 00:33:39,502
Speaker 3: literally killed people, Like people died in that surgery because

676
00:33:39,542 --> 00:33:42,502
Speaker 3: it was so dangerous. So I'm always going to be

677
00:33:42,582 --> 00:33:45,982
Speaker 3: resistant when I see and hear a celebrity who has

678
00:33:46,022 --> 00:33:50,062
Speaker 3: access to the best surgeons, who has every resource available

679
00:33:50,102 --> 00:33:53,461
Speaker 3: to them, and then they're like, you can do it too, Like, no,

680
00:33:53,942 --> 00:33:57,062
Speaker 3: people are going to go to some unregulated go to

681
00:33:57,102 --> 00:33:59,142
Speaker 3: the other side of the world and get something that

682
00:33:59,222 --> 00:34:00,302
Speaker 3: can cause a lot of damage.

683
00:34:00,342 --> 00:34:03,982
Speaker 2: But will you be resistant if everyone else in your life?

684
00:34:04,062 --> 00:34:06,701
Speaker 2: Because the Kylie Jenner video is a good example because

685
00:34:07,222 --> 00:34:09,382
Speaker 2: she was replying to a comment on a video by

686
00:34:09,702 --> 00:34:11,661
Speaker 2: just a girl who was just like, please just tell

687
00:34:11,702 --> 00:34:13,582
Speaker 2: me what you've done, Like I love your boobs, I

688
00:34:13,661 --> 00:34:15,181
Speaker 2: just want a recipe.

689
00:34:14,661 --> 00:34:15,902
Speaker 1: And she's just a normal girl.

690
00:34:16,142 --> 00:34:20,142
Speaker 2: And I feel like it is slowly seeping into normalization.

691
00:34:20,382 --> 00:34:23,622
Speaker 2: And I do think cosmedic procedures is gonna eventually be

692
00:34:23,862 --> 00:34:26,542
Speaker 2: another life stage where like we'll all get to a

693
00:34:26,542 --> 00:34:28,981
Speaker 2: life stage where we'll all suddenly be in that moment

694
00:34:28,982 --> 00:34:30,741
Speaker 2: where you're getting work done. So that doesn't mean I

695
00:34:30,822 --> 00:34:31,582
Speaker 2: have to get work done.

696
00:34:31,661 --> 00:34:33,142
Speaker 4: Yeah, but the problem is that that life stage is

697
00:34:33,142 --> 00:34:35,261
Speaker 4: getting younger and younger. You're in your mid to late

698
00:34:35,261 --> 00:34:38,382
Speaker 4: twenties and so is Kylie, and you're already at that stage.

699
00:34:38,382 --> 00:34:40,701
Speaker 4: So it's not that having work done is something that

700
00:34:40,781 --> 00:34:43,382
Speaker 4: you used to be. You had a facelift if you

701
00:34:43,382 --> 00:34:45,942
Speaker 4: were rich and famous and you were over sixty or seventy.

702
00:34:46,741 --> 00:34:50,022
Speaker 4: I thought I wanted this, like I've always been, like,

703
00:34:50,582 --> 00:34:53,382
Speaker 4: stop gas lighting us. And I would fight with Holly

704
00:34:53,382 --> 00:34:56,542
Speaker 4: about this all the time, like, stop pretending you woke

705
00:34:56,661 --> 00:34:59,022
Speaker 4: up that way. Stop pretending it your body got like

706
00:34:59,102 --> 00:35:02,462
Speaker 4: that by just running after your toddler, and that you

707
00:35:02,542 --> 00:35:05,861
Speaker 4: just get eight hours of sleep and do meditation. That

708
00:35:05,982 --> 00:35:08,821
Speaker 4: drives me crazy because I do feel like I'm being

709
00:35:08,822 --> 00:35:11,462
Speaker 4: gas lip because you look in the mirror and you go, well,

710
00:35:11,781 --> 00:35:13,781
Speaker 4: she's twenty years older than me, and she says she

711
00:35:13,862 --> 00:35:17,261
Speaker 4: just wears sunscreen. How come I look twenty years older

712
00:35:17,261 --> 00:35:22,261
Speaker 4: than her? And now that I've seen it, I'm like, oh,

713
00:35:22,342 --> 00:35:23,421
Speaker 4: maybe I don't want this.

714
00:35:23,582 --> 00:35:27,062
Speaker 3: It's almost considered now if you do not list the procedures,

715
00:35:27,102 --> 00:35:29,022
Speaker 3: because again, the Kardashians have done a one to eighty

716
00:35:29,022 --> 00:35:30,781
Speaker 3: from pretending they didn't get the work done to go

717
00:35:30,822 --> 00:35:32,422
Speaker 3: and you know what, we're going to own it. And

718
00:35:32,462 --> 00:35:34,622
Speaker 3: it's like, if the Kardashians don't tell us, then it's

719
00:35:34,622 --> 00:35:38,342
Speaker 3: seen as gatekeeping, like you're gatekeeping what work you've got.

720
00:35:38,502 --> 00:35:40,982
Speaker 4: And so Kylie got a lot of praise. Oh, you're

721
00:35:41,022 --> 00:35:43,701
Speaker 4: for the girlies, which is kind of like you're not gatekeeping.

722
00:35:43,822 --> 00:35:46,861
Speaker 4: You're a girl's girl because you're sharing and you're being

723
00:35:46,902 --> 00:35:49,181
Speaker 4: honest and you're not making other women feel inadequate when

724
00:35:49,181 --> 00:35:50,901
Speaker 4: they look in the mirror because they don't look like you.

725
00:35:50,902 --> 00:35:53,542
Speaker 4: You're saying, yeah, I didn't wake up this way. I

726
00:35:53,542 --> 00:35:56,181
Speaker 4: actually think I do prefer it to the alternative. I mean,

727
00:35:56,221 --> 00:35:58,741
Speaker 4: the alternative would be that there'd be more diversity of

728
00:35:59,181 --> 00:36:03,861
Speaker 4: beauty everywhere we look, including on our phones, like there

729
00:36:03,902 --> 00:36:05,462
Speaker 4: is in the real world. Like when you walk down

730
00:36:05,502 --> 00:36:07,341
Speaker 4: the street, or you go to the beach, or you

731
00:36:07,382 --> 00:36:11,262
Speaker 4: look around your workplace or your your dinner table. People

732
00:36:11,302 --> 00:36:12,582
Speaker 4: look all different ways, right.

733
00:36:12,862 --> 00:36:16,542
Speaker 3: Jessica Dfino, who is one of my favorite voices on beauty,

734
00:36:16,582 --> 00:36:18,742
Speaker 3: she has a substack and she has some really interesting

735
00:36:18,781 --> 00:36:21,261
Speaker 3: things to say about this. To your point, m She

736
00:36:21,382 --> 00:36:24,582
Speaker 3: says that opting out of this what she terms aesthetic

737
00:36:24,661 --> 00:36:27,901
Speaker 3: labor will have financial and social consequences. So when that

738
00:36:27,902 --> 00:36:30,142
Speaker 3: becomes the norm, if you're the person who says I'm

739
00:36:30,142 --> 00:36:34,302
Speaker 3: gonna let my grades grow out, I'm gonna angles, yeah, exactly,

740
00:36:34,502 --> 00:36:38,942
Speaker 3: then there starts to be whether it well a cultural

741
00:36:38,942 --> 00:36:41,221
Speaker 3: punishment for that sort of thing. So that's I think

742
00:36:41,221 --> 00:36:43,822
Speaker 3: our resistance to it. And she also has this quote

743
00:36:43,822 --> 00:36:47,062
Speaker 3: that says, if beauty is work, who's the boss? Which

744
00:36:47,102 --> 00:36:50,382
Speaker 3: I think, thank you, Mia.

745
00:36:51,622 --> 00:36:53,502
Speaker 4: You in I think it is one of the first

746
00:36:53,502 --> 00:36:55,301
Speaker 4: times I've said that in the show, like I know

747
00:36:55,382 --> 00:36:55,862
Speaker 4: the answer.

748
00:36:56,862 --> 00:36:58,902
Speaker 3: The other thing she says is that today's standard of

749
00:36:58,942 --> 00:37:04,221
Speaker 3: beauty is cyborgian, robotic, and inhuman, and I think that's

750
00:37:04,302 --> 00:37:07,142
Speaker 3: very true. That and homogeneous, yeah, which is the Kindashians

751
00:37:07,382 --> 00:37:09,901
Speaker 3: have popularized that that it's a face without excression.

752
00:37:10,102 --> 00:37:12,942
Speaker 4: Sometimes you'll be scrolling or you know, you'll see pictures

753
00:37:12,942 --> 00:37:14,981
Speaker 4: of celebrities on a red carpet, or someone will post

754
00:37:14,982 --> 00:37:18,221
Speaker 4: something and you'll go, wait, is that Mago Robbie or

755
00:37:18,261 --> 00:37:20,741
Speaker 4: is that a Kardashian Or is that Emma Stone or

756
00:37:20,822 --> 00:37:23,582
Speaker 4: is that means Loewan? Or is that Chris Jenner and

757
00:37:23,982 --> 00:37:26,181
Speaker 4: the women that you're trying to work out who it is.

758
00:37:26,422 --> 00:37:30,221
Speaker 4: Are ranged in age between like twenty five and sixty five.

759
00:37:31,022 --> 00:37:33,622
Speaker 4: And they've also got this Instagram phase.

760
00:37:33,502 --> 00:37:35,142
Speaker 3: And the Kardashians still have a lot to do with that.

761
00:37:35,181 --> 00:37:38,182
Speaker 3: So cosmetic surgeons will say that for the last ten years,

762
00:37:38,342 --> 00:37:41,062
Speaker 3: the most popular pictures they have been brought into their

763
00:37:41,181 --> 00:37:44,381
Speaker 3: offices are Kardashians, Like that is a look and if

764
00:37:44,422 --> 00:37:47,142
Speaker 3: you go to your local shopping center, I'm sorry, but

765
00:37:47,181 --> 00:37:48,781
Speaker 3: I think you can see it. I think it's been

766
00:37:48,862 --> 00:37:53,542
Speaker 3: starting to infiltrate everyone's worlds. And how do we feel

767
00:37:53,542 --> 00:37:56,821
Speaker 3: about that? I mean, they're popularizing cosmetic surgery. I think

768
00:37:56,862 --> 00:38:01,902
Speaker 3: that any surgery that isn't necessary has some element of risk.

769
00:38:01,982 --> 00:38:05,181
Speaker 4: There's been speculation that the Kardashians don't do anything by accident, right,

770
00:38:05,221 --> 00:38:07,182
Speaker 4: and so this is three of them within the space

771
00:38:07,181 --> 00:38:12,022
Speaker 4: of a month. So are they launching a range of clinics?

772
00:38:12,221 --> 00:38:15,381
Speaker 4: Are they launching a range of post surgery products? Are

773
00:38:15,382 --> 00:38:18,981
Speaker 4: they launching a course? Like Chris Jenner, is the Devil

774
00:38:18,982 --> 00:38:22,661
Speaker 4: works hard? Chris Jenner, it's harder what's actually behind this

775
00:38:22,741 --> 00:38:25,622
Speaker 4: because everything they do is very business minded.

776
00:38:25,741 --> 00:38:27,701
Speaker 3: I reckon it's a clinic. So the reason I think

777
00:38:27,741 --> 00:38:31,661
Speaker 3: that is because Kim Kudashan came out with Skincare got

778
00:38:31,661 --> 00:38:33,582
Speaker 3: a lot of criticism that they were like, mate, it's

779
00:38:33,622 --> 00:38:36,181
Speaker 3: not your ninety dollars oil, we can see what you're

780
00:38:36,181 --> 00:38:36,741
Speaker 3: getting done.

781
00:38:36,781 --> 00:38:37,502
Speaker 4: Clinic with a K.

782
00:38:37,781 --> 00:38:40,022
Speaker 3: Yeah, I reckon that it's clinic with a K. And

783
00:38:40,102 --> 00:38:42,261
Speaker 3: I reckon that they're just going hard. They're owning it,

784
00:38:42,302 --> 00:38:44,542
Speaker 3: and they're saying, here, come to this surgeon in our

785
00:38:44,942 --> 00:38:47,781
Speaker 3: Kutashian clinic with a K and come get your work done.

786
00:38:48,422 --> 00:38:52,341
Speaker 2: You'd be on board, like I think. I just think

787
00:38:52,342 --> 00:38:54,582
Speaker 2: it's going to be one of those things like when

788
00:38:54,582 --> 00:38:56,661
Speaker 2: we had to start waxing our eyebrows and we had

789
00:38:56,701 --> 00:38:58,462
Speaker 2: to get like laser hair and moval. I think will

790
00:38:58,502 --> 00:38:59,982
Speaker 2: just be another one.

791
00:39:00,382 --> 00:39:00,862
Speaker 1: Yeah.

792
00:39:01,062 --> 00:39:02,781
Speaker 2: And if all my friends are doing it and I'm

793
00:39:02,822 --> 00:39:05,582
Speaker 2: the only one who's like the UGO, I can't.

794
00:39:05,661 --> 00:39:06,102
Speaker 4: I'm not.

795
00:39:06,862 --> 00:39:09,542
Speaker 3: I refuse to talk about yourself that way. You're beautif.

796
00:39:09,902 --> 00:39:12,901
Speaker 4: Do you know when I was torturate about anti wrinkle injections.

797
00:39:12,982 --> 00:39:14,542
Speaker 4: I was talking to one of my friends about it

798
00:39:14,582 --> 00:39:16,302
Speaker 4: and she's like, you know, you don't have to tell anyone,

799
00:39:16,342 --> 00:39:18,342
Speaker 4: you can actually just get it done.

800
00:39:18,582 --> 00:39:20,502
Speaker 3: I feel like that isn't the ads, and I was like,

801
00:39:20,582 --> 00:39:21,181
Speaker 3: have you met me?

802
00:39:22,822 --> 00:39:26,022
Speaker 4: I actually could not do that. But also I should

803
00:39:26,062 --> 00:39:29,062
Speaker 4: just say that sometimes when we talk about surgery or

804
00:39:29,102 --> 00:39:32,582
Speaker 4: tweatments or things like that on the show, we get

805
00:39:32,622 --> 00:39:34,902
Speaker 4: some comments from people who say, no one in my

806
00:39:34,982 --> 00:39:37,741
Speaker 4: world is getting surgery. This has nothing to do with me.

807
00:39:38,342 --> 00:39:41,902
Speaker 4: I don't know anyone who even has botox. Totally hear you.

808
00:39:42,582 --> 00:39:44,942
Speaker 4: But the reason that we do talk about it is

809
00:39:45,022 --> 00:39:48,942
Speaker 4: because these women, for better and worse, are the standard

810
00:39:48,942 --> 00:39:52,622
Speaker 4: bearers of beauty standards in our culture. So when everybody

811
00:39:52,701 --> 00:39:56,741
Speaker 4: is doing a certain thing and you're seeing it on billboards,

812
00:39:56,781 --> 00:39:59,821
Speaker 4: in movies, on TV shows, on your phone, on every

813
00:39:59,862 --> 00:40:04,622
Speaker 4: social platform, whether they're celebrities or you know, regular influencers, whatever,

814
00:40:05,102 --> 00:40:08,582
Speaker 4: that is how beauty standards change. That is how you

815
00:40:08,622 --> 00:40:11,261
Speaker 4: start to look in the mirror and go, oh, my

816
00:40:11,342 --> 00:40:14,661
Speaker 4: eyelashes are a little bit sparse without even realizing it.

817
00:40:14,661 --> 00:40:17,702
Speaker 4: It's because we're swimming in this sea of beauty standards,

818
00:40:17,741 --> 00:40:20,781
Speaker 4: which is how women. You know, in my day, it

819
00:40:20,862 --> 00:40:23,062
Speaker 4: used to be about having a flat bottom and about

820
00:40:23,102 --> 00:40:25,381
Speaker 4: having no bottom and does my bum look big? In

821
00:40:25,422 --> 00:40:28,902
Speaker 4: this The answer that every man over the age of

822
00:40:28,942 --> 00:40:31,941
Speaker 4: forteen knew to give was no, it doesn't look big

823
00:40:31,982 --> 00:40:34,502
Speaker 4: in this because the beauty standard was for a tiny, flat,

824
00:40:34,542 --> 00:40:38,182
Speaker 4: little bottom. But now the right answer, because beauty standards

825
00:40:38,181 --> 00:40:41,221
Speaker 4: have changed, is does my bum look big in this? Hell? Yeah,

826
00:40:41,422 --> 00:40:43,582
Speaker 4: my god, that's what women want to hear, because a

827
00:40:43,661 --> 00:40:46,662
Speaker 4: big bombers now become the beauty standards. And that's what's

828
00:40:46,701 --> 00:40:51,741
Speaker 4: so fucked about women's faces and bodies being subject to

829
00:40:51,781 --> 00:40:53,742
Speaker 4: trends in ways that men just aren't.

830
00:40:54,102 --> 00:40:57,382
Speaker 3: Please don't take advice regarding skin and plastic surgery from celebrities.

831
00:40:57,382 --> 00:40:59,741
Speaker 3: We can all agree on that. For us or US

832
00:40:59,902 --> 00:41:02,181
Speaker 3: or US. Even Maya thinks she's a doctor, she's simply not.

833
00:41:02,622 --> 00:41:06,422
Speaker 3: Always speak with a trusted health professional.

834
00:41:05,942 --> 00:41:06,622
Speaker 1: Before we go.

835
00:41:06,822 --> 00:41:10,701
Speaker 2: Mia and Jessie, I have some feedback for you because

836
00:41:11,542 --> 00:41:13,821
Speaker 2: I've seen both of you in the kitchen. Sometimes we

837
00:41:13,942 --> 00:41:16,301
Speaker 2: have a lot of younger employees here at Mama Mea,

838
00:41:16,382 --> 00:41:18,661
Speaker 2: and I've seen you try to start conversations with them,

839
00:41:18,902 --> 00:41:19,661
Speaker 2: not know where.

840
00:41:19,502 --> 00:41:20,022
Speaker 1: To take it.

841
00:41:20,221 --> 00:41:23,542
Speaker 4: Rainy day, rain, very windy, and.

842
00:41:23,422 --> 00:41:25,821
Speaker 2: Then you're just standing there awkwardly, and neither of you

843
00:41:25,942 --> 00:41:26,982
Speaker 2: know how to leave the conversation.

844
00:41:27,422 --> 00:41:29,902
Speaker 4: So I often compliment someone on something they're wearing, or

845
00:41:29,942 --> 00:41:30,781
Speaker 4: ask where they got it.

846
00:41:31,062 --> 00:41:31,301
Speaker 1: Yeah.

847
00:41:31,422 --> 00:41:33,102
Speaker 2: I like sometimes what you do, which is a really

848
00:41:33,142 --> 00:41:35,102
Speaker 2: good strategy, is that you start a conversation and then

849
00:41:35,221 --> 00:41:41,062
Speaker 2: already start walking backwards.

850
00:41:41,142 --> 00:41:42,342
Speaker 1: It's a really good strategy.

851
00:41:42,781 --> 00:41:47,181
Speaker 2: She's always booked and busy. So I've got a little

852
00:41:47,221 --> 00:41:49,422
Speaker 2: tip for you. And it's like a new way to

853
00:41:49,822 --> 00:41:52,622
Speaker 2: make small talk actually interesting. So you go up to

854
00:41:52,661 --> 00:41:54,462
Speaker 2: a younger person in your life and you just ask

855
00:41:54,502 --> 00:41:57,102
Speaker 2: them one question, And the question is what's on your

856
00:41:57,102 --> 00:42:00,742
Speaker 2: for you page? Because we all have TikTok Now everyone

857
00:42:00,781 --> 00:42:03,262
Speaker 2: has a TikTok for you page and Instagram for you page.

858
00:42:03,382 --> 00:42:05,261
Speaker 4: Yeah, I haven't thought about doing this at work. I

859
00:42:05,302 --> 00:42:08,822
Speaker 4: advise people to do this when they're talking to teenagers teenagers.

860
00:42:08,862 --> 00:42:12,301
Speaker 4: It can be terrible fine to talk to, particularly girl teenagers.

861
00:42:12,462 --> 00:42:14,662
Speaker 2: They are very very you.

862
00:42:14,382 --> 00:42:17,502
Speaker 4: Kids friends or your nieces or whoever, and your nephews,

863
00:42:17,862 --> 00:42:19,462
Speaker 4: and it can also get be really hard to get

864
00:42:19,502 --> 00:42:20,582
Speaker 4: teenage boys to talk.

865
00:42:21,022 --> 00:42:23,822
Speaker 1: Yeah, but explain to people.

866
00:42:23,582 --> 00:42:25,861
Speaker 4: Who don't know what a for you page is. M

867
00:42:26,142 --> 00:42:27,382
Speaker 4: So the foot that means.

868
00:42:27,181 --> 00:42:30,221
Speaker 2: The for you page on TikTok or Instagram or Facebook.

869
00:42:30,261 --> 00:42:32,582
Speaker 2: It's kind of the algorithm that even if you're not

870
00:42:32,661 --> 00:42:36,502
Speaker 2: following someone or a page your algorithm just knows that

871
00:42:36,582 --> 00:42:38,582
Speaker 2: this is the video or the type of content that

872
00:42:38,622 --> 00:42:40,781
Speaker 2: you will engage in, and it only comes from when

873
00:42:40,822 --> 00:42:44,382
Speaker 2: you've been spent hours and hours just scrolling on TikTok.

874
00:42:44,422 --> 00:42:47,542
Speaker 2: Your for you page is basically your homepage, like your feed.

875
00:42:47,661 --> 00:42:49,661
Speaker 2: It's like your feed, so you have the option to

876
00:42:49,781 --> 00:42:52,222
Speaker 2: just scroll through your homepage, or you can just scroll

877
00:42:52,261 --> 00:42:55,701
Speaker 2: through your following. It's automatically set to your homepage, so

878
00:42:55,741 --> 00:42:58,902
Speaker 2: you will get videos from people that you don't necessarily follow.

879
00:42:59,302 --> 00:43:01,821
Speaker 2: On Instagram, it's your explore page. So when you click

880
00:43:01,862 --> 00:43:04,301
Speaker 2: that little magnifying glass icon at the bottom and you

881
00:43:04,302 --> 00:43:08,181
Speaker 2: can just see account after account of just videos and photos,

882
00:43:08,261 --> 00:43:10,382
Speaker 2: don't feel a bit more exposing. I feel like Instagram

883
00:43:10,382 --> 00:43:12,382
Speaker 2: hasn't nailed it as much as TikTok has.

884
00:43:12,542 --> 00:43:15,181
Speaker 4: I quite like Instagram, my feeds are very different. But

885
00:43:15,422 --> 00:43:17,701
Speaker 4: on TikTok also, what if people aren't on it, they

886
00:43:17,781 --> 00:43:19,942
Speaker 4: might not realize you don't have to follow anyone on TikTok.

887
00:43:19,982 --> 00:43:22,622
Speaker 4: It's not like Facebook or Instagram. It's not about who

888
00:43:22,661 --> 00:43:25,221
Speaker 4: you follow. It starts feeding you and you go on you.

889
00:43:25,221 --> 00:43:27,142
Speaker 4: You don't even have to join to go and look

890
00:43:27,142 --> 00:43:29,142
Speaker 4: at it. You can just go and look at it,

891
00:43:29,181 --> 00:43:31,942
Speaker 4: and it'll start serving you videos to try and work

892
00:43:31,942 --> 00:43:35,102
Speaker 4: out what you're interested in, and then it'll serve you

893
00:43:35,181 --> 00:43:37,261
Speaker 4: lots more of whatever it is that you're interested in.

894
00:43:37,542 --> 00:43:40,102
Speaker 2: So my TikTok for you page right now, and I'm

895
00:43:40,142 --> 00:43:42,741
Speaker 2: a bit embarrassed to admit, is that it's a lot

896
00:43:42,781 --> 00:43:45,822
Speaker 2: of hot muscling men looking at in marrors at themselves.

897
00:43:46,261 --> 00:43:48,982
Speaker 2: Oh okay, all right, because I engage in a few

898
00:43:49,342 --> 00:43:51,142
Speaker 2: and now I'm like, that's all you care about.

899
00:43:51,261 --> 00:43:53,781
Speaker 4: What's so great about this question is that it's just

900
00:43:53,822 --> 00:43:57,622
Speaker 4: so different to news and popular culture, you know, because

901
00:43:57,622 --> 00:44:00,582
Speaker 4: that's all pretty much the same. You know, everyone consumes

902
00:44:00,622 --> 00:44:03,261
Speaker 4: the same kind of media. But when you look at

903
00:44:03,261 --> 00:44:06,422
Speaker 4: your social feed, particularly TikTok, which has an incredible algorithm

904
00:44:06,781 --> 00:44:10,901
Speaker 4: that is frighteningly scary, it's very tailored for you. So

905
00:44:10,942 --> 00:44:13,262
Speaker 4: your for you page will be completely different to mine,

906
00:44:13,422 --> 00:44:17,501
Speaker 4: and also mine will probably be completely different next week, right, yeah, Jesse,

907
00:44:17,582 --> 00:44:18,742
Speaker 4: what's on yours at the moment?

908
00:44:18,982 --> 00:44:22,062
Speaker 3: I get almost exclusively parenting advice. Oh, this is what

909
00:44:22,102 --> 00:44:25,942
Speaker 3: it started to feed me is oldest child meeting newborn,

910
00:44:26,142 --> 00:44:30,821
Speaker 3: meeting new sibling life stages, and it's going we think

911
00:44:30,862 --> 00:44:33,222
Speaker 3: you should have another baby, and so it gives me

912
00:44:33,221 --> 00:44:35,701
Speaker 3: meeting the new sibling, Like I constantly get that, and

913
00:44:35,781 --> 00:44:37,102
Speaker 3: then I cried that too.

914
00:44:37,181 --> 00:44:38,982
Speaker 2: So what's it telling me is telling me, look how

915
00:44:39,022 --> 00:44:40,661
Speaker 2: sad your life is, and look what it could be.

916
00:44:41,181 --> 00:44:42,221
Speaker 3: Have one so you can have two.

917
00:44:42,942 --> 00:44:45,622
Speaker 4: Do you know? During COVID, the for you page is

918
00:44:45,822 --> 00:44:49,982
Speaker 4: responsible for a lot of women discovering their sexuality and

919
00:44:50,062 --> 00:44:53,382
Speaker 4: coming out as later in life lesbians. And the reason

920
00:44:53,422 --> 00:44:55,502
Speaker 4: for that is that people were obviously spending more time

921
00:44:55,502 --> 00:44:58,341
Speaker 4: on their phones and it was sort of around the

922
00:44:58,342 --> 00:45:01,221
Speaker 4: time that TikTok was happening and it started to, you know,

923
00:45:01,342 --> 00:45:05,261
Speaker 4: go very mainstream. And TikTok's algorithm is so effective that

924
00:45:05,382 --> 00:45:08,622
Speaker 4: if you were looking at a piece of content, say

925
00:45:08,661 --> 00:45:12,301
Speaker 4: a gay couple or hot woman, and you watched it,

926
00:45:12,701 --> 00:45:14,502
Speaker 4: what TikTok does then is just feed you more and

927
00:45:14,542 --> 00:45:16,341
Speaker 4: more and more and more and more of that. So

928
00:45:16,422 --> 00:45:20,982
Speaker 4: it's interesting whether it's suggestive or revealing of behavior. And

929
00:45:21,022 --> 00:45:23,781
Speaker 4: then sometimes it's just random, like last night, I was

930
00:45:23,822 --> 00:45:26,741
Speaker 4: scrolling and I don't know how it happened, but I'm

931
00:45:26,741 --> 00:45:29,982
Speaker 4: a sucker for a reunion video of any kind. I'm

932
00:45:30,062 --> 00:45:32,661
Speaker 4: just like going to airports and just watching people have

933
00:45:32,701 --> 00:45:34,661
Speaker 4: reunions is my crack. But I don't have to go

934
00:45:34,701 --> 00:45:37,062
Speaker 4: to the actual airport anymore. I can just look at

935
00:45:37,102 --> 00:45:39,622
Speaker 4: it on my phone. And the ones that I find

936
00:45:39,661 --> 00:45:43,502
Speaker 4: most moving of the military reunion ones, yeah, particularly I've

937
00:45:43,502 --> 00:45:48,982
Speaker 4: got a very subniche here soldiers returning and being reunited

938
00:45:48,982 --> 00:45:53,301
Speaker 4: with their mothers, surprising their mothers. Usually that just makes

939
00:45:53,342 --> 00:45:55,861
Speaker 4: me cry, but I've found a new one last night,

940
00:45:56,022 --> 00:45:59,821
Speaker 4: which I've become an expert on tap out videos. So

941
00:45:59,862 --> 00:46:02,341
Speaker 4: there's this tradition. I started watching the videos of all

942
00:46:02,342 --> 00:46:05,741
Speaker 4: these soldiers standing information and then their loved one will

943
00:46:05,741 --> 00:46:07,862
Speaker 4: come and tap them on the shoulder, and then they'll

944
00:46:07,942 --> 00:46:10,902
Speaker 4: just go from being very upright to just like collapsing

945
00:46:10,942 --> 00:46:16,462
Speaker 4: in tears and hugging, and the contrast is just incredibly moving, and.

946
00:46:16,462 --> 00:46:18,741
Speaker 1: So you have to tap them. So they have to be.

947
00:46:18,741 --> 00:46:22,381
Speaker 4: Tapped right of civilian, and that kind of unlocks them

948
00:46:22,462 --> 00:46:25,062
Speaker 4: from their service state into they can then just be

949
00:46:25,181 --> 00:46:27,381
Speaker 4: humans showing emotion. And some of them were like meeting

950
00:46:27,382 --> 00:46:29,182
Speaker 4: their babies for the first time, or their little children,

951
00:46:29,261 --> 00:46:30,701
Speaker 4: or their again their mothers.

952
00:46:30,902 --> 00:46:31,862
Speaker 1: Lost and mothers.

953
00:46:32,261 --> 00:46:34,582
Speaker 4: But then so I assumed they've been on like active

954
00:46:34,622 --> 00:46:37,702
Speaker 4: service tour of duty, you know, been away for years.

955
00:46:37,781 --> 00:46:40,422
Speaker 4: It turns out because I went deep and started researching

956
00:46:40,462 --> 00:46:42,462
Speaker 4: what tap out videos actually are because I watched so

957
00:46:42,502 --> 00:46:45,701
Speaker 4: many of them, they've just been at military training, so

958
00:46:45,741 --> 00:46:47,862
Speaker 4: they've essentially been in the boot camp. I was slightly

959
00:46:47,902 --> 00:46:50,261
Speaker 4: disappointed and cried less when I found this out, but

960
00:46:50,582 --> 00:46:53,701
Speaker 4: you know, push ups are hard, though, up to six

961
00:46:53,741 --> 00:46:55,981
Speaker 4: months of push ups, i'd probably cry.

962
00:46:56,142 --> 00:46:59,461
Speaker 2: There's this running joke where this person tweeted, my dad

963
00:46:59,502 --> 00:47:01,221
Speaker 2: just showed me video on Instagram, reels that I saw

964
00:47:01,261 --> 00:47:02,382
Speaker 2: six months ago on TikTok.

965
00:47:03,462 --> 00:47:06,221
Speaker 4: That's what my kids say I watch, I send them

966
00:47:06,261 --> 00:47:08,022
Speaker 4: like my thing to do at night is doom scroll

967
00:47:08,462 --> 00:47:11,701
Speaker 4: and amuse myself. And then I put all these reels

968
00:47:11,701 --> 00:47:14,022
Speaker 4: and whatever in the group chat and they're always like, yeah,

969
00:47:14,022 --> 00:47:17,582
Speaker 4: we saw that, that's what That's what Instagram is.

970
00:47:17,741 --> 00:47:20,102
Speaker 3: Gen X's a big thank you to all of you

971
00:47:20,142 --> 00:47:22,381
Speaker 3: the out louders for listening to today's show and our

972
00:47:22,382 --> 00:47:25,181
Speaker 3: fabulous team for putting this show together. We will be

973
00:47:25,261 --> 00:47:27,302
Speaker 3: back in your ears tomorrow.

974
00:47:27,142 --> 00:47:29,382
Speaker 2: And if you're looking for something else to listen to.

975
00:47:29,502 --> 00:47:35,302
Speaker 2: On yesterday's episode, Jesse, Amelia, my Nemesis, and I spoke

976
00:47:35,382 --> 00:47:38,261
Speaker 2: about the leaderboard of Cool. If you came to Ama

977
00:47:38,382 --> 00:47:40,542
Speaker 2: Mia out loud live show, you kind of know where

978
00:47:40,542 --> 00:47:42,781
Speaker 2: I'm going with this, but we went into way more

979
00:47:42,822 --> 00:47:45,661
Speaker 2: detail on who is the who of cool, what the

980
00:47:45,661 --> 00:47:48,422
Speaker 2: different levels of cools are. We took it quite seriously.

981
00:47:49,542 --> 00:47:52,862
Speaker 3: The lead and trained like she got like really detailed

982
00:47:52,862 --> 00:47:55,462
Speaker 3: about what Amelia and I can do to become more.

983
00:47:55,741 --> 00:47:57,661
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really really fun. We will put a

984
00:47:57,661 --> 00:47:58,742
Speaker 2: link in our show notes.

985
00:47:58,982 --> 00:48:00,261
Speaker 1: Bye bye.

986
00:48:01,062 --> 00:48:04,022
Speaker 3: Shout out to any Mum and mea subscribers listening. If

987
00:48:04,022 --> 00:48:05,982
Speaker 3: you love the show and you want to support us,

988
00:48:06,221 --> 00:48:08,981
Speaker 3: subscribing to Mom and Mia is the very best way

989
00:48:09,022 --> 00:48:11,661
Speaker 3: to do so. There's a link in the episode description.