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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Mama Mea out Loud. It's what

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Speaker 2: women are actually talking about on Monday, the nineteenth of January.

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Speaker 2: I'm Holly wayIn Wright and look, last week we welcomed

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Speaker 2: back Mia Friedman to MoMA Mia out Loud. She is

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Speaker 2: now on every Tuesday and every Thursday show for subscribers.

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Speaker 2: But now we're welcoming back someone else, Amelia Lester, is

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Speaker 2: in the house.

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Speaker 1: So good to be back here.

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Speaker 2: What did you do on your holidays? Amelia? Where have

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Speaker 2: you been? What have you been doing? Why haven't you

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Speaker 2: been here enough?

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Speaker 1: I've got three updates. First, I went brond. You did well?

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Speaker 2: You did too?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the barometer for me was a mile clooney because

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Speaker 1: she and I have a lot in here. Really, I

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Speaker 1: did you one semester of law school back in the day.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't very good at it. But she went broond

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Speaker 1: and I thought, it's probably time. It's time, so.

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Speaker 3: There's something about that time of year.

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Speaker 4: I also went I did more of a drastic just like,

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Speaker 4: make me really blonde. I want to do something to

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Speaker 4: really feel fresh in the Are you feeling fresh?

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling fresh. Second, thing that's helping me feeling fresh.

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Speaker 1: Heard m vernon on this podcast talking about Now I've

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Speaker 1: had a in my bathroom cabinet for years, but I've

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Speaker 1: never bothered to use it. And then I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: if I can look like m vernon by, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to do it.

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Speaker 2: So I'm doing anything about the numbers at all, nothing

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Speaker 2: at all.

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Speaker 1: And now I'm feeling very emphatically drained. I emphatic thank you,

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Speaker 1: emphatically thank you, but not the other way. How do

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Speaker 1: you work to hear after your holiday you're looking very drained?

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Speaker 1: Amelia herd Thing went to Western Australia. What's a beautiful

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Speaker 1: place I want to shout out to an out louder

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Speaker 1: Sarah who I went to visit there in Perth and

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Speaker 1: we went to Rightnest Island. We saw quakers. We went

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Speaker 1: to Margaret River, which is the most beautiful wine region

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Speaker 1: I've ever seen.

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Speaker 3: It's ridiculous.

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Speaker 4: I went this time last year, I think to that

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Speaker 4: region best kept secret. I was like, this is one

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Speaker 4: of the most beautiful places in the world that I've

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Speaker 4: ever been.

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Speaker 1: Stunny, stunning, and every winery has a pizza oven and

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Speaker 1: a playground, which is my kind of winery.

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Speaker 2: Perfect feel perfect, well, welcome back. I think thank you

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Speaker 2: for peeling yourself away from the pizza rocks and the

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Speaker 2: wineries to be here with myself and Jesse Stevens. You

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Speaker 2: can hear more actually about what me and Jesse did

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Speaker 2: on our holidays on tomorrow's subscriber at meya yeah, because

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Speaker 2: she has questions, We have questions. But on today's show,

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Speaker 2: this is what has made our agenda, first of all,

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Speaker 2: and you know that we've got our Amelia here for this.

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Speaker 2: We've been dying for it, Greenland, Where is it?

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Speaker 1: What is it?

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Speaker 2: Why does Trump want it? And what happens if he

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Speaker 2: gets it.

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Speaker 1: Plus we want to talk about why women are still

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Speaker 1: being asked to smile, why we're still policing women's behavior

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Speaker 1: on the Red car and beyond.

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Speaker 4: And has Stephen Bartlett, one of the biggest podcasters in

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Speaker 4: the world, been red pilled. We are going to translate

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Speaker 4: that for you and talk about why there is so

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Speaker 4: much controversy around the podcast Diary of a CEO.

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Speaker 2: But first, Amelia Lester.

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Speaker 1: So in case you missed it, you're probably seeing twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen everywhere right now. A few days ago, I was

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Speaker 1: still on holiday and Jesse popped into my DMS and

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Speaker 1: asked me to send a photo of me from twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: and everyone on the Outlard team was asked to do this.

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Speaker 1: Holly's was particularly poinny. It was her in front of

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Speaker 1: a Hillary Clinton themed mood born.

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Speaker 2: It was on the day that we thought she was

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Speaker 2: going to win the election, and we all wore pantsuits

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Speaker 2: and I had a whole Hillary wall.

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Speaker 1: That stopped me in my tracks that one. So women

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Speaker 1: all over the world are getting in on this trend

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Speaker 1: of posting these throwback photos of themselves. There are some

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Speaker 1: common themes that I've identified. There are a lot of

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Speaker 1: oversized sunnies, a lot of peplum tops, a lot of

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Speaker 1: off the shoulder tops, fake eyelashes, skinny jeans. I'm not

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Speaker 1: on social anymore, but my throwback would be a picture

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Speaker 1: of me in a literal flower crown, like does an

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Speaker 1: say twenty sixteen more than a flower crown.

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Speaker 2: There are a lot of deep side parts too.

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Speaker 4: Oh, there were and filters where we just didn't even

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Speaker 4: look like people like so overexposed.

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Speaker 3: I'm glad that we below see.

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Speaker 1: It to remember. Yeah, Kylie Jenne captioned hers, you just

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Speaker 1: had to be there. So my question is, did you

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Speaker 1: just have to be that? Why twenty sixteen? It's obviously

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Speaker 1: ten years ago. It's a decade ago, which feels insane

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Speaker 1: to say, because twenty sixteen is three years ago, just

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Speaker 1: like the nineties were the previous decade. Why are we

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Speaker 1: fixated on twenty sixteen? What's your theory?

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Speaker 3: I reckon, we can't believe it was ten years ago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I reckon.

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Speaker 3: We're all desperate for content ideas, and this is a content.

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Speaker 4: Idea where a lot of creators are like, fuck, I

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Speaker 4: didn't have any.

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Speaker 1: But why twenty sixteen? Though?

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Speaker 4: I think because as you say, it's ten years people

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Speaker 4: are inherently nostalgic. They like looking back at what they

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Speaker 4: were doing. It's interesting that we can talk about the

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Speaker 4: politics and the climate and the actual vibe of twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 4: but that doesn't come into anyone's throwbackstune.

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Speaker 3: It's all about where.

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Speaker 4: You were in your life stage and what was going

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Speaker 4: on in your life. I worry that there's an element

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Speaker 4: of we all looked younger and slimmer, and that that's

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Speaker 4: just an element of why you would want to share

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Speaker 4: photos from that period.

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Speaker 2: I do not want a share photos well, I look

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Speaker 2: younger and slimmer. That's a terrible idea because that immediately

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Speaker 2: gives people a point of reference. You want to pretend

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Speaker 2: I have always looked exactly how I look like. Now,

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Speaker 2: what are you even talking about aging more?

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Speaker 5: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I reckon that that what we're nostalgic for isn't the

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Speaker 4: moment in time, because if we actually look back and

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Speaker 4: you go breaksit happened that year.

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Speaker 3: We also had Trump.

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Speaker 1: Was Brexit in twenty sixteen, so I think it was

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Speaker 1: like mid years. I swore it was twenty fifteen. Twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen had a lot of things happening.

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Speaker 4: Now we're not good, so Brexit and Trump to happen

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Speaker 4: in the same year. It felt as though.

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Speaker 3: I looked back at all the analysis of at the

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Speaker 3: end of the year.

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Speaker 4: You know how cultural critics and analysts come in and

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Speaker 4: go twenty sixteen, there was no optimism. They were all

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Speaker 4: saying the idea that history is a story of progress

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Speaker 4: is one we are abandoning. At this point, the bottom

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Speaker 4: fell out. People felt as though they didn't know the

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Speaker 4: country that they lived.

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Speaker 2: In how right they were.

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Speaker 4: And it became more competitive, and it became about content creators,

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Speaker 4: and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: That makes so much sense. I saw a stat the

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Speaker 1: other day that stopped me in my tracks. It said

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Speaker 1: that these days, only seven percent of time spent on

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Speaker 1: Instagram is spent on content that is offered by your

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Speaker 1: friends and family. Now, I waged it in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: it was a lot higher than that.

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Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, I think that's true. I think we're just

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Speaker 2: nostalgic for the innocence of it. People posting things they

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Speaker 2: wouldn't dream of posting now. And I don't mean political things.

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Speaker 2: I just mean personal things, things that now people would

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Speaker 2: mock and laugh at and tease and point out and say,

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Speaker 2: how could you tone deaf? Da da da? And then

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Speaker 2: it was Instagram was like look at my flower croom,

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Speaker 2: look at my breakfast avocado toasty. It was just all

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Speaker 2: that stuff. And as I said, I think to me

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Speaker 2: last week, I'm going to bring that back. That's my

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Speaker 2: twenty six energy.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you, how's that going.

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Speaker 2: We don't have to do what they tell us to do.

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Speaker 2: Yesterday it's posted some pictures of my vegetables.

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Speaker 1: How was engagement on that, Holly?

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Speaker 2: It could have been better. I've got some work to

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Speaker 2: do on this front, but like, we can make our

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Speaker 2: lives look how we want to on social media, right,

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Speaker 2: we don't have to follow their rules because I think

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Speaker 2: that's what people are nostalgia for. They're like, here's me

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Speaker 2: and my friend's getting drunk in the club, and they're.

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Speaker 1: Like, I wouldn't post that now.

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Speaker 4: And so many people who hadn't posted in a really

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Speaker 4: long time actually did. So It's been this funny moment

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Speaker 4: of like, oh, I am seeing my friends and family

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Speaker 4: all of a sudden in a way that I haven't

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Speaker 4: seen them in ages, because they've just retreated. I also

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Speaker 4: wonder if it's pre pandemic. I think that it's like

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Speaker 4: none of us saw what was going to happen. If

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Speaker 4: we had told ourselves in twenty sixteen what the next

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Speaker 4: ten years would look like, we wouldn't have believed it.

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Speaker 4: So there is that sort of innocence.

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Speaker 1: But sixteen, can you imagine if we had sat down

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Speaker 1: our twenty sixteen selves.

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Speaker 2: We have lived through a lot. Everybody, no wonder we're

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Speaker 2: all feeling a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I wonder like it's okay.

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Speaker 2: The twenty sixteen throwback should be a reminder of our resilience.

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Speaker 2: Stand we're still we're still posting, don't take my filters

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Speaker 2: from my cold dead hair. Amelia as a Bron as

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Speaker 2: a Bron Greenland question as an American Australian foreign policy journalist,

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Speaker 2: because we all know that is Amelia not only is

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Speaker 2: an expert in old things America, but she is she

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Speaker 2: literally works for a publication called Foreign Policy. So I

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Speaker 2: can't imagine that your holiday was that relaxing really, because

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Speaker 2: things haven't been very quiet on the foreign policy.

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Speaker 3: They not respect a million's holiday and mar at all.

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Speaker 2: They did, and things have not been quiet at all.

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Speaker 2: So I have questions, and I know the outluders do.

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Speaker 2: Those questions of course, could be about Ice. They could

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Speaker 2: be about the next steps with Venezuela. They could be

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Speaker 2: about Trump's moves in Iran, or about the mass protests

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Speaker 2: in Minneapolis. But no that we have chosen a specific

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Speaker 2: area to focus on today, and today I'm asking on

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Speaker 2: behalf of the outlouders, what about Greenland. The only thing

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Speaker 2: I really know about Greenland is it's not green. It's

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Speaker 2: mostly white because it's an Arctic country. And today the

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Speaker 2: temperature in Greenland is minus twenty one degrees celsius. But

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Speaker 2: thanks to the wind, chill. It feels more like minus

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Speaker 2: thirty three, So I have to start there. Why does

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Speaker 2: Trump really really want this really cold place?

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Speaker 1: You know how, last week on the show, you basically

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Speaker 1: boiled down Trump's reason for kidnapping Venezuela's leader, Nicholas Maduro

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Speaker 1: as because Maduro made fun of Trump's dancing.

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Speaker 2: Were you proud of me?

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Speaker 1: I was proud of you because I thought that's exactly

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Speaker 1: why Trump decided to kidnap a Duro. I think the

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Speaker 1: reason why he wants Greenland is similarly quite silly. He

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Speaker 1: wants Greenland because it looks really big on a map. Yes,

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Speaker 1: this is my theory, and let me explain a little

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Speaker 1: bit about it. So most maps are a bit distorted

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Speaker 1: because it's something to do with the world being round,

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Speaker 1: and then you have to put it on a flat

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Speaker 1: piece of paper. Look, it's geometry. It's not my strong point,

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Speaker 1: but maps are distorted, and Greenland on a map looks enormous.

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Speaker 3: It really does.

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Speaker 4: I looked at it on a map and I was

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Speaker 4: also surprised by how close it is to the US.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's technically part of North America. It is the

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Speaker 1: world's largest island that isn't a continent which has Australians

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Speaker 1: we should be aware of. But it isn't as big

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Speaker 1: as it looks. In fact, it looks on a map

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Speaker 1: the size of Africa. Africa is fourteen times bigger than Greenland,

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Speaker 1: fourteen times names So this is geography blindness. Yes, So

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Speaker 1: I think Trump looked at a map and he saw

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Speaker 1: that Greenland looked really big, and he said, I want that. Now.

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Speaker 1: It is in a very geographically contested region because, for instance,

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Speaker 1: in World War two, the Americans were worried that the

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Speaker 1: Nazis were going to use it as a stepping stone

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Speaker 1: to getting to the US. This obviously didn't end up happening.

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Speaker 1: But it is in this area where it's close to Russia,

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Speaker 1: it's close to China, it's close to Europe, and it's

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Speaker 1: very close to North America.

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Speaker 2: So who's in charge of it now?

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Speaker 1: Three hundred years ago it was colonized by Denmark, but

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Speaker 1: now it is run by Greenlanders, so self determined, self determined.

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Speaker 1: After World War Two, Denmark said you have home rule,

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Speaker 1: your semi autonomous, you can have an independence referendum. They

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Speaker 1: haven't gone around to having that yet, but all indications

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Speaker 1: are they do not want to be sold to the

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Speaker 1: United States. They're not completely happy with Denmark being in charge,

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Speaker 1: but they're moving towards a place where they will be

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Speaker 1: their own.

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Speaker 2: I feel like about sixty thousand people something.

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Speaker 1: There's actually fifty seven.

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Speaker 2: Thousand, so that's a small population. There's still a population.

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Speaker 3: I have a dumb question, since when can you just

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Speaker 3: buy a country?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Is that a thing really that we can just go?

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Speaker 4: Let's look at a map and go, I'll have that one.

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Speaker 1: It's actually not a thing. America has tried it before, though.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen forty six, President Truman said to Denmark, look,

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Speaker 1: I'll give you a hundred million dollars in gold for it,

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Speaker 1: and Denmark said no, but feel free to come and

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Speaker 1: put military bases here, because Denmark and the US are

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Speaker 1: very good friends, and the US in fact has a

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Speaker 1: military base there. But these days Denmark can't even sell

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Speaker 1: it if it wanted to, because it has said that

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Speaker 1: Greenland is in charge of Greenland's future. So it is

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Speaker 1: simply not possible for Denmark to sell Greenland to the

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Speaker 1: United States.

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Speaker 2: So Greenland has to consent to any takeover. Now, what

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Speaker 2: about the stuff I'm hearing about. It's got lots and

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Speaker 2: lots of rich minerals Trump would love to get his

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Speaker 2: hands on.

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Speaker 1: You. No, look, it does, but they're under glaciers and

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Speaker 1: they're quite hard to get. It's sort of like Venezuela

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Speaker 1: has a lot of oil, but the oil is really

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Speaker 1: hard to get to. So I think in both the

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Speaker 1: case of Venezuela and Greenland, we're kind of trying to

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Speaker 1: find reasons why Trump would want to do this very

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Speaker 1: silly thing, and we're retro fitting these explanations onto them,

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Speaker 1: but they don't really make sense.

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Speaker 3: Is this okay?

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Speaker 4: So is this like a thing that Trump wants or

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Speaker 4: is there support for this in the US? Like are

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Speaker 4: the Republicans on board? Is this something that like there's

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Speaker 4: great public sentiment like, yeah, let's go get here. No.

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Speaker 1: I don't think most people in the US really know

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Speaker 1: where Greenland is or particularly covet Greenland. But I think

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump wants Greenland, and I think he's got his

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Speaker 1: accolytes around him who wanted as well. So this weekend

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Speaker 1: I sort of thought this was bravado. He's been talking

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Speaker 1: about capturing or buying Greenland since his first term and

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Speaker 1: I've sort of dismissed it, But this weekend he kind

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Speaker 1: of up the stakes in a way that made my

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Speaker 1: stomach feel queasy because I think he's serious about it.

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Speaker 1: Because he told Europe that unless Denmark sells him Greenland,

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Speaker 1: which again is not legally possible, He's going to essentially

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Speaker 1: start a trade war with Europe. And that made me think,

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Speaker 1: I think this guy is serious about wanting Greenland.

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Speaker 2: So what would it look like for America to get

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Speaker 2: Greenland like they want it to be, like the fifty

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Speaker 2: first state. What would it look like? What are they proposed?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so he said to Europe on truth Social that

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Speaker 1: if Europe didn't allow the complete and total purchase of Greenland,

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Speaker 1: he would increase these tariffs on European countries. So here's

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Speaker 1: what's going to happen. Denmark cannot sell Greenland to the

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Speaker 1: United States, so presumably Trump's going to increase these tariffs

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Speaker 1: on Europe. Europe is going to respond by saying that

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Speaker 1: the US can't sell any of its goods to Europe

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Speaker 1: and we're going to enter a trade war. That is

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Speaker 1: the best case scenario. The best case scenario was a

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Speaker 1: trade war. You know what The worst case scenario is

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Speaker 1: he invades Greenland, which, by the way, he's meant to

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Speaker 1: be protecting, because the US under the NATO Alliance protects

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Speaker 1: Greenland from Russia or from anyone else who wants to run.

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Speaker 2: And you mean literally invades it, like sends troops to

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Speaker 2: seize the government.

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Speaker 1: Well, as discussed, he can't buy it. So if he

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Speaker 1: really wants it, what's the next step going to be?

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Speaker 4: So it feels I mean, I studied as part of history,

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Speaker 4: like postcolonial history, and the word there, that's the operative word,

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Speaker 4: is post This feels very colonial. It feels like it

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Speaker 4: is a man who wants to create an empire, which

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Speaker 4: feels very World War one, World War II?

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Speaker 1: To me?

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Speaker 3: Is that why you've got the queasy feeling?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got a queasy feeling. He says the US

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Speaker 1: needs it because Russia and China want it. China doesn't

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Speaker 1: want it. That's just not something that's even on China's radar.

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Speaker 1: Russia might want it, but you know who's meant to

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Speaker 1: protect Greenland if Russia decides to invade Greenland? The United States.

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Speaker 1: So that whole explanation of all the US needs it

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Speaker 1: so that Russia and China don't take it doesn't really work.

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Speaker 1: And I'm just worried that I think he feels like

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Speaker 1: he can do anything. Now. You know, we saw last

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Speaker 1: week that he apparently did get the Nobel Prize because

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Speaker 1: the winner from Venezuela decided that she was going to

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Speaker 1: give it to him, and he thinks that that's the

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Speaker 1: same as getting it.

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Speaker 2: He keeps getting it to his Wikipedia page straight away.

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Speaker 2: I see, I got it.

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Speaker 1: He keeps getting affirmation from the whole world that he

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Speaker 1: can do whatever he wants.

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Speaker 2: Is there a world in which they do invade Greenland

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Speaker 2: and Europe tries to defend it? Is there actually a

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Speaker 2: scenario where this could cause a bigger conflict.

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Speaker 1: Europe has said they will defend Greenland, not least because

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Speaker 1: they have a treaty agreement which the United States also

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Speaker 1: has to defend Greenland. And you know what really made

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Speaker 1: me think Europe is going to defend it is that

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Speaker 1: President Macron of France, as you know, I love saying

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Speaker 1: that name. He posted on the weekend comparing Trump to Putin.

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Speaker 1: He basically said, we're going to protect Ukraine, We're going

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Speaker 1: to protect Greenland. So he basically is like, we are

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Speaker 1: not giving you Greenland like you were basically as bad

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Speaker 1: as Putin. If you think that you're going to get

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Speaker 1: this from us.

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Speaker 2: Well, that was cheering. Don't worry everyone, We're talking about

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Speaker 2: j Lo later. Sometimes it's important to know what's going on,

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Speaker 2: but sometimes I wish it was twenty sixty three. Breaksit

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Speaker 2: twenty sixty.

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Speaker 1: Can I inject one note here, which I think is

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Speaker 1: important so that we don't feel complete dispassed.

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Speaker 2: Please?

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Speaker 1: Do half of Americans hate this guy? Half of them?

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Speaker 1: It still remains a very divided country. You mentioned the

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Speaker 1: protests in Minnesota upfront. Basically, there's a particular state in

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Speaker 1: the US, a city called Minneapolis in Minnesota, where they're

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Speaker 1: at these extremely high octane protests on the streets. There

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Speaker 1: are about many, many things, but one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: why people are protesting in such numbers is because people

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Speaker 1: hate what he's doing. His approval numbers have tanked. It's

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Speaker 1: no coincidence that he's trying to make these kinds of

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Speaker 1: conquests just as AMERICANSML elves are saying, we don't like

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Speaker 1: what you're doing. So I guess my one known of

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Speaker 1: optimism is there are midterm elections in November. I think

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Speaker 1: this could be the last gasp of someone who's flailing

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Speaker 1: around for popularity. And approval when he hasn't got a

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Speaker 1: lot of it.

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Speaker 2: You know how famously I think Scott Morrison had a

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Speaker 2: sign on his desk that said always a boat, and

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Speaker 2: it had a thing that said I stopped these. It's

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00:18:31,314 --> 00:18:34,954
Speaker 2: like that's what Trump wants. He wants a little greenland

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Speaker 2: and he wants to be like it's mine. It just

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Speaker 2: wants a trophy for his mantle peace. So maybe someone

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Speaker 2: should just make him want a bit like how we've

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Speaker 2: told him that you've got it, just like people have

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Speaker 2: told him he's got the Peace Prize. Just like here,

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Speaker 2: here's greenland. Look where this is a cute Put it

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Speaker 2: on your mind.

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Speaker 1: Go Europe. It's a free idea. I love it.

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Speaker 4: In a moment, how one of the biggest podcasts in

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Speaker 4: the world have found themselves in hot water. We are

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Speaker 4: talking about Stephen Bartlett and Diary of a CEO.

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Speaker 2: Out loud as it's Mia here.

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00:19:09,194 --> 00:19:11,274
Speaker 5: I've missed you, but I'm back in your ears twice

396
00:19:11,314 --> 00:19:15,513
Speaker 5: a week on Tuesdays and Thursdays this year exclusively for

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00:19:15,594 --> 00:19:19,513
Speaker 5: Mum and MEA subscribers, And tomorrow on Tuesday, I'm going

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00:19:19,554 --> 00:19:23,514
Speaker 5: to be doing a summer holiday debrief with Holly and Jesse.

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Speaker 5: We're going to talk about what they did, what I did,

400
00:19:25,954 --> 00:19:28,714
Speaker 5: and get an update on what it's like being pregnant

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00:19:28,714 --> 00:19:31,834
Speaker 5: with twins over summer. If you're not already a subscriber,

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00:19:31,874 --> 00:19:34,553
Speaker 5: follow the link in the show notes to subscribe and

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00:19:34,634 --> 00:19:36,674
Speaker 5: listen five days a week to out Loud.

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Speaker 3: Has Stephen Bartlett been red pilled?

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Speaker 4: This is a question I've seen popping up for weeks

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00:19:44,114 --> 00:19:45,874
Speaker 4: and we are going to get into it.

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00:19:45,954 --> 00:19:48,594
Speaker 3: But before that, I'm going to do a bit of translating. Right,

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Speaker 3: what is a Stephen Bartlett?

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Speaker 4: Stephen Bartlett is the host of one of the biggest

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Speaker 4: podcasts in the world.

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Speaker 3: I think it was like top three last year. Recording

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Speaker 3: to Spotify.

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Speaker 2: Has like millions of downloads a day.

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00:20:00,074 --> 00:20:01,794
Speaker 3: Three million a day worldwide.

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00:20:01,834 --> 00:20:04,234
Speaker 2: It's a lot that we get a lot, but out

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00:20:04,234 --> 00:20:05,513
Speaker 2: Loud as we don't get quite that.

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00:20:06,394 --> 00:20:08,554
Speaker 3: It is called Diary of a CEO.

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00:20:09,114 --> 00:20:11,434
Speaker 1: Can you tell me why I would want to listen

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00:20:11,434 --> 00:20:13,354
Speaker 1: to that? Is it basically people being like I get

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00:20:13,434 --> 00:20:15,074
Speaker 1: up at four am and have a green smoothie?

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00:20:16,034 --> 00:20:17,474
Speaker 3: What is it used to be?

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00:20:17,914 --> 00:20:22,074
Speaker 4: But it features in depth interviews with a bunch of people,

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00:20:22,114 --> 00:20:25,274
Speaker 4: So some of them are celebrities, some are entrepreneurs. There

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00:20:25,314 --> 00:20:29,754
Speaker 4: was one recently about adhd or about parenting or about health.

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Speaker 1: But why is it so popular because it sounds extremely generic.

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00:20:33,674 --> 00:20:34,394
Speaker 3: It's self help.

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00:20:34,474 --> 00:20:39,114
Speaker 4: It's like he's someone who bills himself as like I

428
00:20:39,394 --> 00:20:40,554
Speaker 4: want to live a better life?

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Speaker 3: How do I do it? So I would listen.

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Speaker 4: I often get into it in January because even it'll

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00:20:46,514 --> 00:20:50,354
Speaker 4: be really about like productivity and like what you should

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00:20:50,354 --> 00:20:54,434
Speaker 4: be eating, and he'll interview an expert on how.

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Speaker 3: To be better at your job or whatever.

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00:20:56,474 --> 00:20:59,434
Speaker 1: It's Jesse, would you actually listen to that one? Yeah,

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00:20:59,594 --> 00:21:00,194
Speaker 1: how to be better?

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00:21:01,114 --> 00:21:02,514
Speaker 3: I would for one week in January.

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00:21:02,754 --> 00:21:06,794
Speaker 2: He's British, right, He's a British celebrity really because so

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00:21:06,834 --> 00:21:09,313
Speaker 2: he started his own business. He's an entrepreneur. As the

439
00:21:09,354 --> 00:21:12,154
Speaker 2: CEO I think obviously implies he's a shark on Shark

440
00:21:12,194 --> 00:21:12,874
Speaker 2: Tank in the UK.

441
00:21:12,994 --> 00:21:13,874
Speaker 1: What was his business?

442
00:21:14,594 --> 00:21:18,274
Speaker 2: Tech time, Yeah, tech tech and that, and he invests

443
00:21:18,274 --> 00:21:21,034
Speaker 2: in shed loads of businesses. So he's the real deal

444
00:21:21,274 --> 00:21:23,674
Speaker 2: in terms of being a businessman. Very young, he was

445
00:21:23,754 --> 00:21:26,114
Speaker 2: like he's thirty three. Yeah, he was twenty six or

446
00:21:26,114 --> 00:21:28,754
Speaker 2: something when he sold his company for a bajaw million dollars.

447
00:21:28,794 --> 00:21:31,314
Speaker 2: Don't fact check that but yeah, because he was also

448
00:21:31,354 --> 00:21:33,754
Speaker 2: a judge on Shark Tank, he had a profile. He

449
00:21:33,834 --> 00:21:36,994
Speaker 2: still does and he's built this show that's now essentially

450
00:21:37,034 --> 00:21:39,154
Speaker 2: an interview show, and it's one of those ones where

451
00:21:39,434 --> 00:21:41,794
Speaker 2: sometimes the episode's are two and a half hours long,

452
00:21:42,234 --> 00:21:45,074
Speaker 2: like it's very longful, and.

453
00:21:45,114 --> 00:21:48,034
Speaker 4: It might be with an intellectual or with a writer

454
00:21:48,274 --> 00:21:50,234
Speaker 4: or the one I think I recommended this last year

455
00:21:50,314 --> 00:21:53,434
Speaker 4: one he sat down with Louis Tomlinson from One Direction,

456
00:21:53,514 --> 00:21:55,513
Speaker 4: one of the best interviews I listened to last He's a.

457
00:21:55,554 --> 00:21:58,194
Speaker 2: Very good interviewer, I think, but he sometimes does round tables.

458
00:21:58,194 --> 00:22:00,513
Speaker 2: We did an episode about the feminist round table that

459
00:22:00,634 --> 00:22:02,634
Speaker 2: was infuriating anyway.

460
00:22:02,354 --> 00:22:04,914
Speaker 4: Where he got all these women on to argue about feminism.

461
00:22:05,074 --> 00:22:08,553
Speaker 4: Right now, let's move on to the word red pilled.

462
00:22:08,594 --> 00:22:10,154
Speaker 3: Do you know what that means, Emelia?

463
00:22:10,234 --> 00:22:13,034
Speaker 1: Does that kind of mean that he's a bit misogynistic.

464
00:22:13,354 --> 00:22:17,154
Speaker 4: Yes, So it's a term pulled from the matrix where

465
00:22:17,274 --> 00:22:19,474
Speaker 4: it's like the red pill blue pill thing, and the

466
00:22:19,514 --> 00:22:23,674
Speaker 4: red pill means that you've finally woken up to the

467
00:22:23,714 --> 00:22:26,994
Speaker 4: reality of what's happening. And it's language used by in

468
00:22:26,994 --> 00:22:30,954
Speaker 4: cells or like the alt right, who were saying, oh,

469
00:22:31,034 --> 00:22:33,434
Speaker 4: I've just taken the red pill, and now I can

470
00:22:33,514 --> 00:22:36,554
Speaker 4: see that men are actually oppressed.

471
00:22:36,874 --> 00:22:39,674
Speaker 1: So I saw a license plate in wa actually which

472
00:22:39,674 --> 00:22:41,914
Speaker 1: said red pill. Is that some one being like, I'm

473
00:22:41,954 --> 00:22:42,474
Speaker 1: an in cell?

474
00:22:42,954 --> 00:22:45,714
Speaker 2: Not necessarily in cell, but definitely because people also use

475
00:22:45,794 --> 00:22:48,434
Speaker 2: red pill now just in terms of becoming maga or

476
00:22:48,474 --> 00:22:51,874
Speaker 2: becoming cult right, or becoming into the manisphere or likes.

477
00:22:52,034 --> 00:22:55,514
Speaker 2: It's basically a term that means you've been radicalized.

478
00:22:56,194 --> 00:22:59,834
Speaker 4: Yes, and like lefties who have taken the blue pill

479
00:22:59,834 --> 00:23:02,034
Speaker 4: have decided to see the world in a certain way.

480
00:23:02,154 --> 00:23:04,554
Speaker 3: Fingers in their ears, they won't wake up to what's

481
00:23:04,594 --> 00:23:05,154
Speaker 3: really going on.

482
00:23:05,234 --> 00:23:09,154
Speaker 4: That's why they were wearing blue today, exactly right. So

483
00:23:09,874 --> 00:23:13,434
Speaker 4: why is everyone asking if Bartlett has been red pilled?

484
00:23:13,794 --> 00:23:19,234
Speaker 4: There have been a few questions or comments or guests

485
00:23:19,314 --> 00:23:21,914
Speaker 4: on his show recently that have raised some concerns.

486
00:23:22,114 --> 00:23:24,754
Speaker 3: Have a listen. This clip is sort of where it

487
00:23:24,794 --> 00:23:25,514
Speaker 3: all started.

488
00:23:25,754 --> 00:23:29,474
Speaker 6: We have this population decline situation going on. Is it

489
00:23:29,514 --> 00:23:32,834
Speaker 6: not a function of or a consequence of the fact

490
00:23:32,914 --> 00:23:35,874
Speaker 6: that we have more freedom, more control? We're like more nihilistic.

491
00:23:35,994 --> 00:23:39,234
Speaker 6: We it's more like me, me, me, me me.

492
00:23:39,994 --> 00:23:43,274
Speaker 7: Now there's a girl with the list on TikTok which

493
00:23:43,354 --> 00:23:45,874
Speaker 7: I think is this girl who wrote three hundred and

494
00:23:45,914 --> 00:23:48,194
Speaker 7: fifty reasons to not have kids. It's like eight pages,

495
00:23:48,354 --> 00:23:51,154
Speaker 7: nine pages long, and it went super viral and it's

496
00:23:51,234 --> 00:23:54,874
Speaker 7: everything from literally a parasite growing inside of your body

497
00:23:55,154 --> 00:23:58,273
Speaker 7: to can't work cute heels with the girls will have

498
00:23:58,314 --> 00:24:00,553
Speaker 7: to miss brunch, all of the different issues that can

499
00:24:00,594 --> 00:24:03,434
Speaker 7: occur during childbirth. And then I think there was a

500
00:24:03,474 --> 00:24:06,314
Speaker 7: list of things for kids, and it was like maybe

501
00:24:06,314 --> 00:24:08,674
Speaker 7: a page a half a page that she'd written. By

502
00:24:08,754 --> 00:24:10,513
Speaker 7: the sounds of things, it is a really good idea

503
00:24:10,554 --> 00:24:12,114
Speaker 7: that she's not a mother, and I'm glad that she's

504
00:24:12,194 --> 00:24:13,234
Speaker 7: choosing to not have kids.

505
00:24:13,514 --> 00:24:17,033
Speaker 3: So that clip, interestingly, it's the guest who says that.

506
00:24:17,274 --> 00:24:20,554
Speaker 1: So that's the guest who's saying the thing about the list, Yes, okay.

507
00:24:20,394 --> 00:24:23,994
Speaker 4: And he's sort of saying, you know, women have a

508
00:24:24,034 --> 00:24:27,834
Speaker 4: lot of choice now. Or I suppose that the way

509
00:24:27,834 --> 00:24:30,794
Speaker 4: that Bartlett is introducing it is like it's the narcissism.

510
00:24:30,954 --> 00:24:34,914
Speaker 1: Is the guest an expert perhaps on demographics.

511
00:24:34,074 --> 00:24:37,553
Speaker 4: Or psychology, No, I don't believe. So I believe that

512
00:24:37,794 --> 00:24:42,194
Speaker 4: Chris his name is Chris Williamson, and is he was

513
00:24:42,074 --> 00:24:43,434
Speaker 4: he was on all right?

514
00:24:43,594 --> 00:24:45,314
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he became a podcast.

515
00:24:45,354 --> 00:24:47,794
Speaker 1: It's good that we're getting the Love Island contestants to

516
00:24:47,874 --> 00:24:50,194
Speaker 1: use on these complex issues exactly.

517
00:24:50,274 --> 00:24:51,234
Speaker 3: So that's his take.

518
00:24:51,914 --> 00:24:55,874
Speaker 4: And this podcast has always skewed male, but Bartlett does

519
00:24:55,954 --> 00:24:59,394
Speaker 4: have a female listenership, and they've often liked him because

520
00:24:59,394 --> 00:25:03,594
Speaker 4: he's he's softly spoken, he's intellectual. He asked questions like

521
00:25:04,154 --> 00:25:08,834
Speaker 4: whyder men disproportionately leave their sick partners like he's advocated

522
00:25:08,874 --> 00:25:12,234
Speaker 4: for women in some of his shows. He interviewed Kamala Harris,

523
00:25:12,434 --> 00:25:13,634
Speaker 4: so that shows where he kind of sits.

524
00:25:13,834 --> 00:25:15,634
Speaker 2: I've heard him say on his show because I listened

525
00:25:15,634 --> 00:25:17,794
Speaker 2: sometimes spending on the guests, there is no one I

526
00:25:17,794 --> 00:25:20,474
Speaker 2: wouldn't have on. He doesn't believe in like non platforms.

527
00:25:20,474 --> 00:25:22,313
Speaker 1: So is he kind of like British Rogan?

528
00:25:22,394 --> 00:25:26,513
Speaker 2: Then he is, except not No, not as political. No,

529
00:25:26,594 --> 00:25:28,514
Speaker 2: I don't think it's that so much as I think

530
00:25:28,514 --> 00:25:30,714
Speaker 2: he's no one there as kind of aggressive as Rogan.

531
00:25:30,794 --> 00:25:33,954
Speaker 2: He's much more, as you said, softly.

532
00:25:33,634 --> 00:25:37,714
Speaker 4: Spurring and to be completely honest, and maybe this is

533
00:25:37,794 --> 00:25:40,634
Speaker 4: my own naivety, but I would look at him and

534
00:25:40,714 --> 00:25:41,914
Speaker 4: not know how he votes.

535
00:25:42,114 --> 00:25:44,834
Speaker 2: So he's not wants that, and that's very much what

536
00:25:44,874 --> 00:25:45,154
Speaker 2: he wants.

537
00:25:45,234 --> 00:25:47,793
Speaker 1: Yeah, what other evidence do we have for the red pilling? Okay,

538
00:25:47,994 --> 00:25:49,474
Speaker 1: so example one.

539
00:25:49,274 --> 00:25:52,074
Speaker 4: There's a theory that he's steered off path, and so

540
00:25:52,274 --> 00:25:55,634
Speaker 4: other clips have started resurfacing. So here's another taste of

541
00:25:55,834 --> 00:25:58,754
Speaker 4: a back and forth that has resurfaced.

542
00:25:59,074 --> 00:26:00,954
Speaker 6: You just said that a huge amount of men between

543
00:26:00,954 --> 00:26:03,513
Speaker 6: the age of fifteen and fifty will not passing their genes.

544
00:26:03,514 --> 00:26:06,634
Speaker 6: They will effectively out of the gene mating pool. So

545
00:26:06,674 --> 00:26:09,394
Speaker 6: people will hear that, and many people will go, well,

546
00:26:09,634 --> 00:26:10,274
Speaker 6: that's evolution.

547
00:26:10,474 --> 00:26:10,634
Speaker 2: Yep.

548
00:26:10,714 --> 00:26:13,474
Speaker 6: Should society intervene? You know, in the short term, we're

549
00:26:13,514 --> 00:26:15,554
Speaker 6: going to have a lot of men who are disillusioned

550
00:26:15,634 --> 00:26:17,674
Speaker 6: that become in cells find themselves and pockets of the

551
00:26:17,714 --> 00:26:19,874
Speaker 6: internet are resent for all those kinds of things. But

552
00:26:19,914 --> 00:26:22,874
Speaker 6: should society intervene to course correct that? Should we put

553
00:26:22,914 --> 00:26:25,674
Speaker 6: systems in place to make sure that those men meet partners?

554
00:26:25,874 --> 00:26:27,914
Speaker 2: I'm going to answer that question with a question. If

555
00:26:28,194 --> 00:26:31,513
Speaker 2: let's say the huge swath of people are out from cancer,

556
00:26:31,554 --> 00:26:32,553
Speaker 2: should we intervene with that.

557
00:26:32,754 --> 00:26:35,513
Speaker 4: Yes, So the thing that he says about should we

558
00:26:35,594 --> 00:26:39,074
Speaker 4: put structures in place to course correct? You know, a

559
00:26:39,114 --> 00:26:42,434
Speaker 4: woman has answered dressed is the handmaid's tail and said,

560
00:26:42,474 --> 00:26:45,234
Speaker 4: I've got an idea for a system that might work.

561
00:26:45,474 --> 00:26:48,354
Speaker 1: I love the music the like Requiem for the Sperm,

562
00:26:49,274 --> 00:26:50,394
Speaker 1: like all this sperms.

563
00:26:50,514 --> 00:26:53,594
Speaker 4: That's a taste of the TikTok instagram clips that all lack.

564
00:26:53,714 --> 00:26:56,594
Speaker 4: Really kind of deep and thoughtful.

565
00:26:56,834 --> 00:27:00,513
Speaker 2: He is very well known in podcast circles for being

566
00:27:00,634 --> 00:27:04,954
Speaker 2: an incredible marketer. Right, so every podcast in the world

567
00:27:05,114 --> 00:27:08,034
Speaker 2: has studied what Bartlett has done to get his show

568
00:27:08,154 --> 00:27:10,714
Speaker 2: from being I'm a guy off Shark Tank to being

569
00:27:10,754 --> 00:27:12,754
Speaker 2: the biggest podcast in the world, and a large part

570
00:27:12,794 --> 00:27:16,394
Speaker 2: of it is about his rigorous testing of titles of

571
00:27:16,514 --> 00:27:19,593
Speaker 2: videos of so he knows better than anybody in what

572
00:27:19,714 --> 00:27:23,634
Speaker 2: will resonate and it won't surprise anybody that will often resonates.

573
00:27:23,754 --> 00:27:26,234
Speaker 2: Is one of the most controversial things that a guest

574
00:27:26,314 --> 00:27:28,033
Speaker 2: might say during the two and a half hours.

575
00:27:28,234 --> 00:27:32,434
Speaker 1: Although interestingly, that question about whether we should pair in

576
00:27:32,514 --> 00:27:37,594
Speaker 1: cells up with women came from him right exactly.

577
00:27:37,674 --> 00:27:40,394
Speaker 4: So that's the bit where people are going hang on

578
00:27:40,954 --> 00:27:43,874
Speaker 4: and watching him become a trojan horse for kind of

579
00:27:43,914 --> 00:27:52,874
Speaker 4: the in cell movement. Yes, Holly, you're a dabbler in

580
00:27:53,274 --> 00:27:57,994
Speaker 4: a dabbler diary, CEO, do you think he has fallen

581
00:27:58,034 --> 00:27:59,594
Speaker 4: down an in cell trapdoor here.

582
00:27:59,754 --> 00:28:03,353
Speaker 2: Not necessarily. I think the thing about the Bartlets, and

583
00:28:03,394 --> 00:28:06,674
Speaker 2: I think Rogan used to be this ONTs to is

584
00:28:06,714 --> 00:28:10,593
Speaker 2: they consider themselves kind of above politics, right in terms

585
00:28:10,634 --> 00:28:13,034
Speaker 2: of the way that a lot of us consume media

586
00:28:13,074 --> 00:28:15,434
Speaker 2: now for very obvious reasons, and particularly in America, and

587
00:28:15,434 --> 00:28:19,234
Speaker 2: although he's British a that culture is becoming more polarized too,

588
00:28:19,314 --> 00:28:21,434
Speaker 2: but also a lot large part of his audience would

589
00:28:21,434 --> 00:28:24,674
Speaker 2: be American. No question is I need to know where

590
00:28:24,714 --> 00:28:27,033
Speaker 2: you stand before I give you my listen. Are you

591
00:28:27,074 --> 00:28:29,234
Speaker 2: read or are you blue? Everybody wants to know that.

592
00:28:29,274 --> 00:28:31,273
Speaker 2: And I listened to a lot of American podcasts and

593
00:28:31,674 --> 00:28:33,554
Speaker 2: you often hear them talk about on the top ten

594
00:28:33,554 --> 00:28:35,434
Speaker 2: there are three red shows and four blue shows, and

595
00:28:35,434 --> 00:28:38,074
Speaker 2: you know, everybody needs to know, like where are you standing?

596
00:28:38,834 --> 00:28:41,954
Speaker 2: And I think that Bartlet and as I say, once

597
00:28:42,034 --> 00:28:44,354
Speaker 2: upon a time, Rogan kind of they're much more of

598
00:28:44,394 --> 00:28:47,194
Speaker 2: the I'm just asking questions guy, right, So they're like,

599
00:28:47,274 --> 00:28:50,594
Speaker 2: I'm not red or blue, I just want to hear

600
00:28:50,714 --> 00:28:53,594
Speaker 2: all the interesting ideas and discuss and look, it's a

601
00:28:53,634 --> 00:28:56,954
Speaker 2: nice idea that you can do that twenty sixteen, you

602
00:28:57,034 --> 00:29:00,194
Speaker 2: could do that now. I think it's very complicated. One

603
00:29:00,234 --> 00:29:02,874
Speaker 2: thing I would say about him because when I listen,

604
00:29:03,594 --> 00:29:06,314
Speaker 2: I think that any parasocial relationship we have with a podcaster,

605
00:29:06,394 --> 00:29:07,914
Speaker 2: and I know they're peace who listen to this, who

606
00:29:07,994 --> 00:29:10,834
Speaker 2: definitely have these kind of relationships with us, is the

607
00:29:10,834 --> 00:29:13,114
Speaker 2: more you know them, the more benefit of the doubt

608
00:29:13,194 --> 00:29:16,314
Speaker 2: you give them. Right. So, I've listened to Bartlet talked

609
00:29:16,314 --> 00:29:18,234
Speaker 2: to lots of women. I often listen to his interviews

610
00:29:18,234 --> 00:29:21,714
Speaker 2: with women, and he's not dismissive or rude. He invests

611
00:29:21,794 --> 00:29:24,034
Speaker 2: millions of dollars in lots of businesses that are owned

612
00:29:24,074 --> 00:29:27,914
Speaker 2: by women. He's not that guy, right, But do I

613
00:29:28,234 --> 00:29:30,314
Speaker 2: very much get the sense when I listen to him

614
00:29:30,314 --> 00:29:33,954
Speaker 2: talk that he has a very traditional view, probably borne

615
00:29:33,954 --> 00:29:36,634
Speaker 2: out by his own experiences of what male roles are,

616
00:29:36,674 --> 00:29:39,354
Speaker 2: which is about the money and being the hunter and

617
00:29:39,354 --> 00:29:41,914
Speaker 2: all those things, and what female roles are, which are

618
00:29:41,954 --> 00:29:45,234
Speaker 2: more about nurturing. Yeah, I definitely think that's true, And

619
00:29:45,314 --> 00:29:47,434
Speaker 2: often when I'm listening to him, I'll find myself kind

620
00:29:47,434 --> 00:29:50,114
Speaker 2: of going, oh, come on, buddy, like that's just your reality,

621
00:29:50,154 --> 00:29:53,314
Speaker 2: you know. For me, I'm happy to listen to people

622
00:29:53,354 --> 00:29:56,634
Speaker 2: whose worldviews don't completely align with mine, as long as

623
00:29:56,714 --> 00:29:58,874
Speaker 2: I'm aware of that. I've got that in my little

624
00:29:58,914 --> 00:30:02,154
Speaker 2: file in my head when I'm listening and the conversations

625
00:30:02,154 --> 00:30:04,314
Speaker 2: are kind of mold. I mean, I don't need to

626
00:30:04,674 --> 00:30:09,354
Speaker 2: agree with everything he says, but what's probably more dangerous

627
00:30:09,394 --> 00:30:10,914
Speaker 2: that he's done, and he also gets a lot of

628
00:30:10,954 --> 00:30:13,354
Speaker 2: shit for it. But it's not as easy lead TikTok to,

629
00:30:13,354 --> 00:30:16,234
Speaker 2: I don't think is he's so big in the wellness

630
00:30:16,274 --> 00:30:19,874
Speaker 2: space and a lot of that information is incredibly dangerous

631
00:30:19,914 --> 00:30:23,354
Speaker 2: because that whole I'm just asking questions has very much

632
00:30:23,434 --> 00:30:25,714
Speaker 2: led him to some dangerous ground when it comes to

633
00:30:25,754 --> 00:30:30,474
Speaker 2: things like carnivorous diets, vaccines, fertility treatments, and so it

634
00:30:30,514 --> 00:30:33,674
Speaker 2: brings you to a broader question about what the responsibilities are.

635
00:30:33,794 --> 00:30:36,474
Speaker 2: So he's had to make a statement about this one

636
00:30:36,634 --> 00:30:39,514
Speaker 2: because it's been pushed hard and his team say Stephen

637
00:30:39,514 --> 00:30:42,514
Speaker 2: Bartlett does not adopt the opinions of his guests, nor

638
00:30:42,634 --> 00:30:45,514
Speaker 2: is the format intended to pass judgment on personal viewpoints.

639
00:30:45,794 --> 00:30:48,234
Speaker 2: To suggest that a host is responsible for every view

640
00:30:48,274 --> 00:30:51,354
Speaker 2: expressed by a guest is a fundamental misunderstanding of the

641
00:30:51,394 --> 00:30:55,314
Speaker 2: long form interview format, and I generally agree with that

642
00:30:55,394 --> 00:30:59,394
Speaker 2: as someone who does interviews. But I do think that

643
00:30:59,434 --> 00:31:02,554
Speaker 2: when your platform is quite as big as his, it

644
00:31:02,634 --> 00:31:06,754
Speaker 2: does come with extra responsibility when it comes to surfacing. Basically,

645
00:31:06,834 --> 00:31:08,314
Speaker 2: Dan incorrect.

646
00:31:08,514 --> 00:31:11,114
Speaker 4: I want to ask Amelia about this, right, because she's

647
00:31:11,434 --> 00:31:15,434
Speaker 4: a proper journalist. She's a proper journalist, Amelia. He asked

648
00:31:15,434 --> 00:31:18,834
Speaker 4: a question there about why women aren't having kids. The

649
00:31:18,914 --> 00:31:21,634
Speaker 4: guest went on a bit of a in an interesting direction,

650
00:31:22,434 --> 00:31:24,394
Speaker 4: might have said some things Bartlett didn't agree with.

651
00:31:24,594 --> 00:31:25,194
Speaker 3: Whatever it is.

652
00:31:25,274 --> 00:31:28,634
Speaker 4: I've seen people I know who are interviewers on podcasts

653
00:31:29,354 --> 00:31:31,834
Speaker 4: and that's then been stitched up and put all over

654
00:31:31,914 --> 00:31:37,234
Speaker 4: social and they have been blamed credited with what the

655
00:31:37,274 --> 00:31:41,914
Speaker 4: guest said. Do you think that's fair or do you

656
00:31:41,954 --> 00:31:45,914
Speaker 4: think in interviewing you're allowed to give someone space. Maybe

657
00:31:45,994 --> 00:31:48,434
Speaker 4: they say something you don't agree with, maybe you challenge them,

658
00:31:48,474 --> 00:31:49,194
Speaker 4: maybe you don't.

659
00:31:49,794 --> 00:31:51,754
Speaker 3: But isn't that just what an interview is.

660
00:31:51,994 --> 00:31:52,194
Speaker 5: Yeah?

661
00:31:52,194 --> 00:31:54,114
Speaker 1: I think it's a really good question. And you used

662
00:31:54,114 --> 00:31:56,834
Speaker 1: an interesting word there before, Holly, because you use the

663
00:31:56,834 --> 00:32:00,434
Speaker 1: word platform, I think, or platforming, And by the way,

664
00:32:00,434 --> 00:32:02,474
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, I don't think that was a word

665
00:32:02,514 --> 00:32:05,434
Speaker 1: that was really around. Like, that's a relatively new concept,

666
00:32:05,474 --> 00:32:08,354
Speaker 1: the idea that by giving someone time or choosing to

667
00:32:08,394 --> 00:32:12,714
Speaker 1: feature them editorially, you are implicitly endorsing what they're saying.

668
00:32:12,954 --> 00:32:14,834
Speaker 1: I don't think that's necessarily true, But to use that

669
00:32:14,874 --> 00:32:18,874
Speaker 1: Love Island example, that guy is a Love Island contestant

670
00:32:18,954 --> 00:32:21,994
Speaker 1: who is being asked about a complex social issue that

671
00:32:22,114 --> 00:32:26,994
Speaker 1: has a lot of very difficult and challenging reasons why

672
00:32:27,034 --> 00:32:29,834
Speaker 1: it's happening why people aren't having kids, and he is

673
00:32:29,914 --> 00:32:32,874
Speaker 1: extremely dismissive about why women aren't having kids, and he

674
00:32:32,994 --> 00:32:35,154
Speaker 1: essentially says he watched a TikTok where a woman says

675
00:32:35,194 --> 00:32:37,234
Speaker 1: she can't go to brunch, and that's why women aren't

676
00:32:37,234 --> 00:32:39,354
Speaker 1: having kids. Now, I don't need to tell the listeners

677
00:32:39,354 --> 00:32:42,354
Speaker 1: of this podcast that that's probably not the reason why

678
00:32:42,354 --> 00:32:44,754
Speaker 1: a lot of women aren't having kids. So I think

679
00:32:44,794 --> 00:32:47,314
Speaker 1: it's fair game if you're going to put that person

680
00:32:47,354 --> 00:32:50,034
Speaker 1: on a widely listened podcast and he's going to dismiss

681
00:32:50,394 --> 00:32:53,954
Speaker 1: the experiences of millions of women as sort of superficial

682
00:32:53,994 --> 00:32:56,274
Speaker 1: and vapid, I think it's fair game to say, well,

683
00:32:56,314 --> 00:32:58,954
Speaker 1: I think that that reason is superficial and vapid.

684
00:32:59,394 --> 00:33:02,914
Speaker 4: I wonder if a lot of the people criticizing Stephen

685
00:33:02,954 --> 00:33:05,754
Speaker 4: Bartlett and saying I'm not listening anymore and clipping up.

686
00:33:06,434 --> 00:33:08,834
Speaker 4: I wonder how many of them have watched a full episode.

687
00:33:08,994 --> 00:33:11,634
Speaker 4: And this is the danger of the direction that podcasts

688
00:33:11,634 --> 00:33:15,194
Speaker 4: are going in, is that it is now clipped up

689
00:33:15,954 --> 00:33:20,634
Speaker 4: in twenty sixteen. In fact, two years ago, podcasting was

690
00:33:20,714 --> 00:33:24,194
Speaker 4: not subject to algorithms. It was outside of an algorithm,

691
00:33:24,194 --> 00:33:29,234
Speaker 4: which made discovering podcasts really hard. Now with the youtuberfication

692
00:33:29,434 --> 00:33:33,274
Speaker 4: of podcasts, I guarantee that every time Steven Bartlett puts

693
00:33:33,314 --> 00:33:35,754
Speaker 4: up an episode about in Cells, he gets a lot

694
00:33:35,954 --> 00:33:40,554
Speaker 4: of so much engagement if they're in cells, if they're

695
00:33:40,594 --> 00:33:41,754
Speaker 4: not in cells, whatever.

696
00:33:41,834 --> 00:33:44,834
Speaker 3: All him and his team are looking at are metrics.

697
00:33:44,954 --> 00:33:51,594
Speaker 4: And so I can see how certain podcasts are becoming

698
00:33:51,634 --> 00:33:53,674
Speaker 4: more and more radicalized, and.

699
00:33:53,794 --> 00:33:55,554
Speaker 1: On posit it boosts engagement.

700
00:33:55,594 --> 00:33:56,434
Speaker 3: It boosts engagement.

701
00:33:56,514 --> 00:33:59,914
Speaker 4: So the algorithm then like picks up even on TikTok

702
00:33:59,954 --> 00:34:01,714
Speaker 4: or whatever. You know that this is going to be inflammatory,

703
00:34:01,754 --> 00:34:03,634
Speaker 4: but guess what, It's going to get me more listens.

704
00:34:04,194 --> 00:34:05,114
Speaker 3: So does that leave us.

705
00:34:05,034 --> 00:34:09,393
Speaker 4: In a world where only people who you know, completely

706
00:34:09,433 --> 00:34:13,314
Speaker 4: align with Stephen Bartlett listen to him, only people who

707
00:34:13,314 --> 00:34:15,513
Speaker 4: completely align with us listen to us.

708
00:34:15,874 --> 00:34:18,393
Speaker 1: I think it's actually more about the fact that you

709
00:34:18,434 --> 00:34:21,674
Speaker 1: don't get to be Stephen Bartlett or Joe Rogan if

710
00:34:21,674 --> 00:34:24,234
Speaker 1: you're not very good at reading the collective tea leaves

711
00:34:24,274 --> 00:34:28,154
Speaker 1: and figuring out whether the public mood is and where

712
00:34:28,194 --> 00:34:31,354
Speaker 1: the public sentiment is going. So I think right now,

713
00:34:31,674 --> 00:34:34,433
Speaker 1: Stephen Butlett is tech adjacent. He comes from the tech world.

714
00:34:34,514 --> 00:34:37,634
Speaker 1: The tech world is dominated by men who have been

715
00:34:37,754 --> 00:34:40,834
Speaker 1: quote unquote red peled, and that's what's working for him

716
00:34:40,874 --> 00:34:44,114
Speaker 1: right now. But what's interesting is counter example, Joe Rogan

717
00:34:44,674 --> 00:34:47,754
Speaker 1: has just this week spoken out critically about what the

718
00:34:47,754 --> 00:34:51,873
Speaker 1: Trump administration is doing, which suggests to me that these

719
00:34:51,874 --> 00:34:54,474
Speaker 1: are men who are just trying to figure out what's

720
00:34:54,514 --> 00:34:57,114
Speaker 1: going to get them the connection with the audience at

721
00:34:57,114 --> 00:34:57,873
Speaker 1: any given time.

722
00:34:58,114 --> 00:35:00,434
Speaker 2: I think that's true. But I also think that Rogan

723
00:35:00,434 --> 00:35:03,393
Speaker 2: would say, this is proof of why it's not as

724
00:35:03,394 --> 00:35:05,114
Speaker 2: simple as you guys think it is, that am either

725
00:35:05,114 --> 00:35:07,074
Speaker 2: blue or I'm red. He's like, I'm red when I

726
00:35:07,114 --> 00:35:09,114
Speaker 2: I agree with what they're saying, I'm not read when

727
00:35:09,154 --> 00:35:10,794
Speaker 2: I don't. You know, I've heard him say the quote

728
00:35:10,794 --> 00:35:13,794
Speaker 2: that he's been saying this week is America is not

729
00:35:13,834 --> 00:35:16,473
Speaker 2: a country where people should be showing your papers. He's like,

730
00:35:16,554 --> 00:35:18,634
Speaker 2: is that where we are now? And he's expressed horror

731
00:35:18,674 --> 00:35:20,954
Speaker 2: about that, and people are like, oh, he's abandoning Trump.

732
00:35:20,994 --> 00:35:23,074
Speaker 2: It's like, well, maybe he is, or maybe he's just

733
00:35:23,154 --> 00:35:27,274
Speaker 2: expressing his opinion. To your point, Jesse, about does it

734
00:35:27,354 --> 00:35:30,354
Speaker 2: leave us with people who are I think that the

735
00:35:30,434 --> 00:35:33,674
Speaker 2: problem is is that they're really anyone who'll come on

736
00:35:33,754 --> 00:35:36,234
Speaker 2: and say something controversial. Is the person that you want

737
00:35:36,234 --> 00:35:37,593
Speaker 2: on the show if you've got two and a half

738
00:35:37,594 --> 00:35:39,794
Speaker 2: hours of someone who's never going to make a generalization,

739
00:35:39,914 --> 00:35:41,913
Speaker 2: never going to give you a neat SoundBite, never say

740
00:35:41,954 --> 00:35:44,234
Speaker 2: anything that's going to make people get upset in the comments.

741
00:35:44,514 --> 00:35:47,074
Speaker 2: No one's listening to your show. So it's probably less

742
00:35:47,074 --> 00:35:50,674
Speaker 2: of an ideological allegiance that he's like, I'm an in

743
00:35:50,794 --> 00:35:53,154
Speaker 2: cell and I'm on a platform in cells. I think

744
00:35:53,194 --> 00:35:55,714
Speaker 2: people like in cells and more. Who can I get

745
00:35:55,754 --> 00:35:57,913
Speaker 2: who will stick their neck out and say something not

746
00:35:58,074 --> 00:36:02,234
Speaker 2: very nuanced because we all know to avoid becoming that

747
00:36:02,354 --> 00:36:05,994
Speaker 2: kind of enragement bait, you have to be really nuanced

748
00:36:05,994 --> 00:36:08,714
Speaker 2: in what you're saying, and that's not sexy in a clip.

749
00:36:09,074 --> 00:36:12,393
Speaker 4: And I'll say, just in defense of Bartlet, I don't

750
00:36:12,434 --> 00:36:16,714
Speaker 4: think talking about in cells or male loneliness makes you

751
00:36:16,834 --> 00:36:20,634
Speaker 4: a misogynist. And I worry that any man Scott Galloway

752
00:36:20,634 --> 00:36:23,154
Speaker 4: has gone down this path who wants to write about

753
00:36:23,234 --> 00:36:24,873
Speaker 4: what it means to be a man, how to be

754
00:36:24,954 --> 00:36:25,513
Speaker 4: a good man.

755
00:36:25,634 --> 00:36:26,994
Speaker 3: He's released this book called.

756
00:36:26,834 --> 00:36:29,794
Speaker 4: Notes on Being a Man, which is a massive hit,

757
00:36:29,794 --> 00:36:32,194
Speaker 4: by the way, which is a massive hit. Anyone who

758
00:36:32,234 --> 00:36:37,114
Speaker 4: writes that book isn't necessarily an inceell And I worry

759
00:36:37,154 --> 00:36:37,594
Speaker 4: about that.

760
00:36:37,674 --> 00:36:38,354
Speaker 3: I worry that.

761
00:36:38,674 --> 00:36:42,354
Speaker 4: I see this kind of panic happen whenever men want

762
00:36:42,354 --> 00:36:45,834
Speaker 4: to talk about men things, and you see really radical

763
00:36:45,874 --> 00:36:50,314
Speaker 4: feminists kind of make fun of them, and I go, if.

764
00:36:50,114 --> 00:36:52,873
Speaker 3: We just leave this to the in cells, that's not good.

765
00:36:52,954 --> 00:36:54,634
Speaker 4: We need men in the middle who are willing to

766
00:36:54,634 --> 00:36:56,754
Speaker 4: have these conversations as well. And as far as I

767
00:36:56,794 --> 00:36:59,154
Speaker 4: can see it, Steve Bartlett is still kind of in

768
00:36:59,194 --> 00:36:59,594
Speaker 4: the middle.

769
00:37:00,194 --> 00:37:03,314
Speaker 2: In a moment, j Lo is in trouble for not

770
00:37:03,514 --> 00:37:05,994
Speaker 2: smiling enough. Is she just all of us on a

771
00:37:06,034 --> 00:37:16,554
Speaker 2: bad day. It's a ward season, and that means that

772
00:37:16,594 --> 00:37:19,314
Speaker 2: we get to see and judge and poke and dissect

773
00:37:19,634 --> 00:37:23,194
Speaker 2: every mannerism of celebrities, the real upper echelon of celebrities

774
00:37:23,554 --> 00:37:26,114
Speaker 2: even more than usual. One of the places we like

775
00:37:26,154 --> 00:37:28,154
Speaker 2: to do. That is with the glambot. Is everyone familiar

776
00:37:28,194 --> 00:37:29,554
Speaker 2: with the red carpet glambot?

777
00:37:29,634 --> 00:37:33,994
Speaker 4: Nope, it's my worst nightmare. It's yours two, Amelia.

778
00:37:34,154 --> 00:37:35,154
Speaker 1: What is the glambot?

779
00:37:35,154 --> 00:37:37,834
Speaker 2: So there's a guy who does. He's been doing it

780
00:37:37,874 --> 00:37:39,914
Speaker 2: for years and years and years. He's a very cool

781
00:37:39,994 --> 00:37:43,433
Speaker 2: Canadian music director called Cole Wallace at and these days

782
00:37:43,434 --> 00:37:46,554
Speaker 2: he's famous for his glambot camera on every red carpet

783
00:37:46,594 --> 00:37:49,794
Speaker 2: the Emmy's, the globes, the SAgs, whatever, And basically he's

784
00:37:49,794 --> 00:37:54,114
Speaker 2: got this very fancy, high definition, slow motion, high speed

785
00:37:54,114 --> 00:37:56,794
Speaker 2: whatever camera that you just stand on the carpet. I'm

786
00:37:56,834 --> 00:37:58,874
Speaker 2: going to do it. You just stand on the carpet.

787
00:37:58,914 --> 00:38:01,354
Speaker 2: And he like he's made himself a character in this.

788
00:38:01,474 --> 00:38:03,514
Speaker 2: So he greets you. You walk up, I'm like, Amelia,

789
00:38:03,674 --> 00:38:05,953
Speaker 2: so good to see you. You know, you're so good

790
00:38:05,954 --> 00:38:07,954
Speaker 2: at this. I love your dress. Blah blah. All you

791
00:38:07,994 --> 00:38:09,433
Speaker 2: have to do is look at the camera. I'm going

792
00:38:09,434 --> 00:38:11,074
Speaker 2: to count you down and then you're going to strike

793
00:38:11,114 --> 00:38:13,913
Speaker 2: a pose, right, and this camera is so good that

794
00:38:13,954 --> 00:38:16,234
Speaker 2: it catches you in slow motion doing it. So there

795
00:38:16,234 --> 00:38:19,074
Speaker 2: are some iconic ones. Is a great brudpit where they

796
00:38:19,154 --> 00:38:24,234
Speaker 2: kind of go like say, you go, yeah, yeah.

797
00:38:23,714 --> 00:38:24,274
Speaker 6: Well you go.

798
00:38:24,394 --> 00:38:26,314
Speaker 1: You know, he is striking some.

799
00:38:28,114 --> 00:38:31,354
Speaker 2: This is an audio medium unless you're watching us on YouTube,

800
00:38:31,514 --> 00:38:33,074
Speaker 2: but I'm striking poses.

801
00:38:33,354 --> 00:38:35,194
Speaker 1: And do these appear on Instagram?

802
00:38:35,554 --> 00:38:35,754
Speaker 3: Yes?

803
00:38:35,874 --> 00:38:38,674
Speaker 2: Yeah, So then it's turned into its little you know,

804
00:38:38,794 --> 00:38:43,514
Speaker 2: slow mo thing and it goes all over socials, TikTok, Instagram, wherever.

805
00:38:43,754 --> 00:38:46,234
Speaker 4: And there's a bit of a joke about how awkward

806
00:38:46,274 --> 00:38:47,914
Speaker 4: they can be because they also do it at like

807
00:38:48,714 --> 00:38:51,913
Speaker 4: now launches for things and events and whatever, like I'm

808
00:38:51,914 --> 00:38:53,834
Speaker 4: sure I've been to events where they've got a glambot

809
00:38:53,834 --> 00:38:55,114
Speaker 4: and I'm like, absolutely not.

810
00:38:55,474 --> 00:38:57,074
Speaker 3: But you see people do them, and I think it

811
00:38:57,114 --> 00:38:57,473
Speaker 3: takes a.

812
00:38:57,394 --> 00:39:00,834
Speaker 4: Certain level of skill to know, you know, how to

813
00:39:01,074 --> 00:39:03,554
Speaker 4: pose when you do it, like yeah, I hate it.

814
00:39:03,514 --> 00:39:05,714
Speaker 2: But yes, And he's become a bit of a character.

815
00:39:05,754 --> 00:39:07,554
Speaker 2: And one of the things that's happened is how you

816
00:39:07,594 --> 00:39:10,154
Speaker 2: react for the celebrities because he also posts the whole

817
00:39:10,234 --> 00:39:12,514
Speaker 2: behind the scenes, so the whole from the beginning of

818
00:39:12,514 --> 00:39:16,993
Speaker 2: the interaction Hi Amelia through to the finished product. So

819
00:39:17,154 --> 00:39:18,634
Speaker 2: how you interact.

820
00:39:18,194 --> 00:39:22,154
Speaker 1: With you you are missing out.

821
00:39:23,554 --> 00:39:27,194
Speaker 2: How you react to Cole and the glambot says a

822
00:39:27,234 --> 00:39:32,514
Speaker 2: lot about you, allegedly and this week our friend of

823
00:39:32,554 --> 00:39:37,514
Speaker 2: the pod Jalo I know she listens regularly, has been

824
00:39:37,594 --> 00:39:40,674
Speaker 2: the victim of the story being that she did not

825
00:39:40,914 --> 00:39:44,794
Speaker 2: handle the Glambot. Well, oh no, she did not acknowledge coal.

826
00:39:44,954 --> 00:39:47,314
Speaker 2: She happened to be fair. There are videos of her

827
00:39:47,354 --> 00:39:49,553
Speaker 2: from years ago where she's very friendly with him, Hi,

828
00:39:49,754 --> 00:39:56,434
Speaker 2: shaking hands so judicious. Well, I'm worried about that, worried

829
00:39:56,434 --> 00:39:59,234
Speaker 2: about slandering the JLO. But she was not in a

830
00:39:59,314 --> 00:40:00,954
Speaker 2: mood to play at the Golden Globes and she just

831
00:40:00,994 --> 00:40:01,354
Speaker 2: walked on.

832
00:40:01,474 --> 00:40:03,593
Speaker 1: That's because her dress was nearly not there.

833
00:40:04,834 --> 00:40:08,154
Speaker 2: She just walked up. Did it know her? No intruction.

834
00:40:08,274 --> 00:40:10,274
Speaker 2: We would play you audio, but we can't because it

835
00:40:10,354 --> 00:40:15,514
Speaker 2: isn't it she said, not one word. And of course

836
00:40:15,594 --> 00:40:17,994
Speaker 2: the internet has done its thing and gone so rude.

837
00:40:17,994 --> 00:40:21,953
Speaker 2: What a bitch. She's so rude. And Cole, who, as

838
00:40:21,994 --> 00:40:24,634
Speaker 2: you can imagine, gets asked all the time, and he

839
00:40:24,674 --> 00:40:26,674
Speaker 2: does it too. He wraps up the best ten glamd

840
00:40:26,674 --> 00:40:28,474
Speaker 2: Bots of the year at the end of the award season.

841
00:40:29,074 --> 00:40:31,834
Speaker 2: He's had to k had to come out defend her

842
00:40:32,354 --> 00:40:35,994
Speaker 2: and say, look, some celebrities are playing some a business.

843
00:40:36,034 --> 00:40:39,433
Speaker 2: She was being business blah blah, blah anyway the world.

844
00:40:39,474 --> 00:40:42,314
Speaker 1: But I have to interrupt because this came to us

845
00:40:42,354 --> 00:40:46,114
Speaker 1: fire an editor here at Mama Mia who said that

846
00:40:46,194 --> 00:40:49,274
Speaker 1: she thinks he posted it deliberately. Yes, do you think

847
00:40:49,274 --> 00:40:49,794
Speaker 1: that's true?

848
00:40:49,834 --> 00:40:52,554
Speaker 2: I think it's probably true. Is that he's adding fire

849
00:40:52,674 --> 00:40:54,393
Speaker 2: to the point that we just made about how you

850
00:40:54,434 --> 00:40:57,474
Speaker 2: get engagement and you travel. So he didn't say anything

851
00:40:57,554 --> 00:40:59,874
Speaker 2: mean about j Lo in his piece to camera video

852
00:40:59,914 --> 00:41:00,234
Speaker 2: about it.

853
00:41:00,354 --> 00:41:02,194
Speaker 4: Got a lot of comments, and he's got something like

854
00:41:02,234 --> 00:41:05,154
Speaker 4: twelve point seven million followers on TikTok.

855
00:41:05,194 --> 00:41:05,993
Speaker 1: He's a big deal.

856
00:41:06,074 --> 00:41:07,634
Speaker 3: He's almost as big as j oh.

857
00:41:07,594 --> 00:41:09,993
Speaker 2: He definitely is. He's a celebrity too, So that's why

858
00:41:09,994 --> 00:41:11,554
Speaker 2: you can't just treat him like the help, you know

859
00:41:11,554 --> 00:41:14,114
Speaker 2: what I mean? Like Jayla made a big mistake, but

860
00:41:14,234 --> 00:41:16,634
Speaker 2: the thing is, so she's coping flak. He may or

861
00:41:16,674 --> 00:41:19,074
Speaker 2: may not be complicit in this. But one of the

862
00:41:19,114 --> 00:41:21,274
Speaker 2: things that it has got people talking about is the

863
00:41:21,394 --> 00:41:24,794
Speaker 2: what we expect from celebrities on the red carpet and

864
00:41:24,834 --> 00:41:27,314
Speaker 2: when we're shouting at them to smile, to show a

865
00:41:27,314 --> 00:41:30,554
Speaker 2: bit of leg, to pose this way. Like Miley Cyrus

866
00:41:30,634 --> 00:41:33,314
Speaker 2: was recently in the same situation on the red carpet

867
00:41:33,354 --> 00:41:35,553
Speaker 2: at a film festival and she was being yelled at

868
00:41:35,594 --> 00:41:38,114
Speaker 2: by the wall of photographers, take your sonnies off, put

869
00:41:38,114 --> 00:41:40,314
Speaker 2: them on, and she bit back and was like, I'm

870
00:41:40,314 --> 00:41:41,913
Speaker 2: going to do the opposite of what you tell me

871
00:41:41,954 --> 00:41:44,834
Speaker 2: to do. There's some great audio of Hannah Waddingham, who's

872
00:41:44,834 --> 00:41:47,714
Speaker 2: that brilliant British actress from ted La so when she

873
00:41:47,954 --> 00:41:49,794
Speaker 2: was told to show a bit of leg and she

874
00:41:49,874 --> 00:41:52,034
Speaker 2: was like, you would never ask a man to do that.

875
00:41:52,794 --> 00:41:56,314
Speaker 2: Does this all remind us very much of just being

876
00:41:56,394 --> 00:41:58,834
Speaker 2: told to smile and be nice all the time.

877
00:41:58,954 --> 00:42:02,514
Speaker 1: Well, see, I thought that men had stopped asking women

878
00:42:02,594 --> 00:42:06,634
Speaker 1: to smile, but then in our planning meeting, Vernon tells

879
00:42:06,674 --> 00:42:09,794
Speaker 1: me she still being asked to smile. I think you

880
00:42:09,994 --> 00:42:12,994
Speaker 1: age out of being asked to smile if you're a civilian. Obviously,

881
00:42:13,034 --> 00:42:15,594
Speaker 1: if you're Jalo or Hannah Waddingham, you're not aging out

882
00:42:15,634 --> 00:42:17,354
Speaker 1: of it. But I haven't been asked to smile since

883
00:42:17,354 --> 00:42:20,354
Speaker 1: I was thirty five.

884
00:42:20,714 --> 00:42:22,994
Speaker 3: I haven't been asked to smile in a very long.

885
00:42:22,994 --> 00:42:26,473
Speaker 1: No one's expecting a middle aged woman to smile, not

886
00:42:26,594 --> 00:42:27,754
Speaker 1: on their list of expects.

887
00:42:27,754 --> 00:42:31,394
Speaker 4: Maybe since twenty sixteen, we're not asking each other to smile.

888
00:42:31,474 --> 00:42:33,514
Speaker 3: It's just understood that we're not happy.

889
00:42:33,594 --> 00:42:37,674
Speaker 2: The risk profile is too high to ask a midlife

890
00:42:37,674 --> 00:42:38,634
Speaker 2: woman to smile.

891
00:42:38,754 --> 00:42:39,393
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

892
00:42:41,674 --> 00:42:44,474
Speaker 2: Anyway, what do you think is this just an extension

893
00:42:44,474 --> 00:42:46,434
Speaker 2: of how we expect women to perform in public.

894
00:42:46,634 --> 00:42:49,114
Speaker 4: I'm going to play Devil's advocate for a minute and

895
00:42:49,314 --> 00:42:52,594
Speaker 4: just specifically look at red carpets for a moment, because

896
00:42:53,474 --> 00:42:57,154
Speaker 4: I have worked a bit in television and have seen

897
00:42:57,594 --> 00:43:03,714
Speaker 4: the relationship between talent and production. And when I saw

898
00:43:03,754 --> 00:43:07,634
Speaker 4: the Jlo thing, I was I mean using this word

899
00:43:07,674 --> 00:43:10,634
Speaker 4: tongue in cheek, but triggered, right. And I say that

900
00:43:10,954 --> 00:43:17,354
Speaker 4: because there is this I think famous people disproportionately see

901
00:43:17,514 --> 00:43:20,433
Speaker 4: other people in terms of status, like a status hierarchy, right,

902
00:43:20,994 --> 00:43:26,754
Speaker 4: And I would work with people who the way they

903
00:43:26,874 --> 00:43:27,594
Speaker 4: spoke to.

904
00:43:27,594 --> 00:43:29,873
Speaker 3: The camera operator, to the makeup artist, to.

905
00:43:29,954 --> 00:43:37,393
Speaker 4: The floor manager was so abysmal and disrespectful that it

906
00:43:37,514 --> 00:43:40,114
Speaker 4: was like they weren't real human beings. So people who

907
00:43:40,154 --> 00:43:41,634
Speaker 4: had worked with them for ten years and never learned

908
00:43:41,634 --> 00:43:44,554
Speaker 4: their name. And I thought, that tells you a lot

909
00:43:44,594 --> 00:43:46,674
Speaker 4: about a person. And so when I saw the Jlo thing,

910
00:43:46,754 --> 00:43:49,074
Speaker 4: and I am never going to accept that a ten

911
00:43:49,154 --> 00:43:51,873
Speaker 4: second clip tells a whole story, There is so much context.

912
00:43:52,434 --> 00:43:55,114
Speaker 4: Jlo is working, she is a woman at work.

913
00:43:55,234 --> 00:43:55,954
Speaker 3: She is busy.

914
00:43:56,234 --> 00:43:58,953
Speaker 4: She's probably been up since four am, unlike Brad Pitt,

915
00:43:58,954 --> 00:44:01,314
Speaker 4: who probably rolled out of bed at four pm. You know,

916
00:44:01,634 --> 00:44:03,913
Speaker 4: skincare routine, skincare routine.

917
00:44:03,754 --> 00:44:04,594
Speaker 3: And wandered in.

918
00:44:05,434 --> 00:44:08,074
Speaker 4: Jlo knows that everything she does is to be scrutinized,

919
00:44:08,074 --> 00:44:13,714
Speaker 4: and like, I completely understand, But I also think that

920
00:44:13,834 --> 00:44:15,674
Speaker 4: we're desperate.

921
00:44:15,194 --> 00:44:17,274
Speaker 3: For those small moments.

922
00:44:16,834 --> 00:44:20,794
Speaker 4: Of insight because they do tell you something about how

923
00:44:20,834 --> 00:44:24,874
Speaker 4: a person engages with people who they don't.

924
00:44:24,754 --> 00:44:26,794
Speaker 3: Think can give them anything.

925
00:44:27,034 --> 00:44:27,593
Speaker 2: Is that fair?

926
00:44:27,914 --> 00:44:31,594
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fair. You reminded me that once I was

927
00:44:31,674 --> 00:44:34,394
Speaker 1: at a press event. I was there in a capacity

928
00:44:34,434 --> 00:44:36,234
Speaker 1: as a journalist, but there are a lot of famous

929
00:44:36,274 --> 00:44:38,433
Speaker 1: people there and they had to like drive us up

930
00:44:38,434 --> 00:44:40,674
Speaker 1: this hill for this launch for something. I forgot what

931
00:44:40,674 --> 00:44:43,393
Speaker 1: it was. And I was put in a car with

932
00:44:43,514 --> 00:44:48,154
Speaker 1: Simon Baker, Oh yeah, and two other Australian celebrities that

933
00:44:48,194 --> 00:44:51,993
Speaker 1: I won't mention. The two other Australian celebrities said absolutely

934
00:44:52,274 --> 00:44:55,234
Speaker 1: nothing to me. Yep, Simon Baker, He's sitting in the

935
00:44:55,234 --> 00:44:59,953
Speaker 1: front seat. He turns around and he says, Hi, I'm

936
00:45:00,034 --> 00:45:04,274
Speaker 1: Simon baker. Yeah, I know, I was a puddle on

937
00:45:04,314 --> 00:45:09,474
Speaker 1: the floor. I'm blushing now. This simple courtesy just made

938
00:45:09,554 --> 00:45:11,714
Speaker 1: my day. Yeah, it made my day.

939
00:45:12,074 --> 00:45:14,433
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly true.

940
00:45:14,674 --> 00:45:17,354
Speaker 2: Like sometimes people come into a podcast, into you, for example,

941
00:45:17,394 --> 00:45:19,834
Speaker 2: and they want to know the producer's name and the

942
00:45:19,874 --> 00:45:21,554
Speaker 2: you know, the person turning the camera on, and they

943
00:45:21,554 --> 00:45:24,114
Speaker 2: say hello and they thank everybody, and you always think

944
00:45:24,154 --> 00:45:27,954
Speaker 2: that person's wonderful. And also as the interviewer, you only

945
00:45:27,994 --> 00:45:31,674
Speaker 2: get a good interview if somebody's open and feeling good,

946
00:45:31,754 --> 00:45:33,794
Speaker 2: you know, and so you're very much looking for that

947
00:45:33,914 --> 00:45:37,754
Speaker 2: rather than defensiveness. But some of this red carpet content

948
00:45:37,794 --> 00:45:40,514
Speaker 2: stuff I think has changed that dynamic a bit because

949
00:45:40,674 --> 00:45:44,154
Speaker 2: to your point, Jesse, about Cole and his twelve million TikTokers,

950
00:45:44,834 --> 00:45:47,354
Speaker 2: it's not really clear what the power dynamic is there,

951
00:45:47,954 --> 00:45:51,154
Speaker 2: Like he needs them and they need him, but in

952
00:45:51,194 --> 00:45:54,433
Speaker 2: a very literal way, and he has the power to

953
00:45:54,554 --> 00:45:58,074
Speaker 2: ruin their reputations because everybody loves a bit of a

954
00:45:58,234 --> 00:46:00,114
Speaker 2: she was a bitch, he didn't leave a tip, whatever

955
00:46:00,194 --> 00:46:03,754
Speaker 2: story is about a celebrity, we love them. Listening to

956
00:46:03,794 --> 00:46:06,794
Speaker 2: this now wants to know who Jesse's worked with, who

957
00:46:06,874 --> 00:46:09,234
Speaker 2: was to the crew, because these are the kind of

958
00:46:09,274 --> 00:46:12,114
Speaker 2: stories we like more than anything. I think we particularly

959
00:46:12,114 --> 00:46:14,354
Speaker 2: like them about women more than men because obviously we're

960
00:46:14,554 --> 00:46:17,994
Speaker 2: waiting for them to fall into the bitch category. And

961
00:46:18,074 --> 00:46:21,034
Speaker 2: so I can see that, you know. I mean, I

962
00:46:21,034 --> 00:46:23,994
Speaker 2: have no idea what kind of person Jalo is generally speaking,

963
00:46:24,314 --> 00:46:26,393
Speaker 2: but let's say, as he said, this was the end

964
00:46:26,434 --> 00:46:28,474
Speaker 2: of the carpet, everyone was rush da da da da da.

965
00:46:28,634 --> 00:46:30,554
Speaker 2: Maybe she's just like, oh, now I've got to go

966
00:46:30,594 --> 00:46:32,314
Speaker 2: and do that thing for that guy with the twelve

967
00:46:32,434 --> 00:46:36,034
Speaker 2: million followers. Like I can kind of get it. I

968
00:46:36,034 --> 00:46:39,393
Speaker 2: don't think it necessarily means she's evil, but I am

969
00:46:39,634 --> 00:46:43,354
Speaker 2: interested in how it kind of translates. You know, when

970
00:46:43,434 --> 00:46:47,393
Speaker 2: you watch those young female celebrities being screamed at by

971
00:46:47,394 --> 00:46:49,674
Speaker 2: the wall of paps, well they're not paps really at

972
00:46:49,674 --> 00:46:53,393
Speaker 2: those events, press photographers. The way those photographers speak to

973
00:46:53,434 --> 00:46:55,434
Speaker 2: them is actually quite shocking.

974
00:46:55,234 --> 00:46:58,554
Speaker 4: And they're often fully grown men who are incredibly aggressive.

975
00:46:58,634 --> 00:47:02,434
Speaker 1: Yes, you've reminded me of another anecdote. I was once

976
00:47:02,554 --> 00:47:05,234
Speaker 1: working in an office in downtown New York and I

977
00:47:05,394 --> 00:47:08,714
Speaker 1: left the office building to go and get an overpriced sandwich,

978
00:47:08,714 --> 00:47:11,234
Speaker 1: because that's what people and offices do. It was around

979
00:47:11,314 --> 00:47:14,234
Speaker 1: lunchtime and I come out as a building and there

980
00:47:14,234 --> 00:47:17,513
Speaker 1: are all these men screaming at me to get out

981
00:47:17,514 --> 00:47:20,754
Speaker 1: of the way, which I thought was very rude, I mean,

982
00:47:21,154 --> 00:47:23,634
Speaker 1: little unusual. None of them were asking me to smile,

983
00:47:23,754 --> 00:47:25,913
Speaker 1: they were just asking you to move. And then I

984
00:47:25,994 --> 00:47:29,474
Speaker 1: realized it was because Julia Roberts was filming a movie

985
00:47:29,674 --> 00:47:31,714
Speaker 1: at the very time. I didn't see Julia Roberts. She

986
00:47:31,794 --> 00:47:34,674
Speaker 1: was somewhere in the mix and I was getting in

987
00:47:34,674 --> 00:47:37,554
Speaker 1: the way of the shot. But for that single moment,

988
00:47:37,594 --> 00:47:40,714
Speaker 1: I understood what it was like to have a wall

989
00:47:40,874 --> 00:47:45,074
Speaker 1: of people with long lenses shouting at you and they

990
00:47:45,194 --> 00:47:48,394
Speaker 1: will stop at nothing. I mean, I sound like you, granted,

991
00:47:48,554 --> 00:47:50,873
Speaker 1: you know, having went on that long crusade against the

992
00:47:50,874 --> 00:47:53,434
Speaker 1: British tablets, and you sort of think world's tiniest violin

993
00:47:53,514 --> 00:47:56,034
Speaker 1: for the rich, famous celebrities. But I think there's something

994
00:47:56,074 --> 00:47:58,794
Speaker 1: to the idea that it can be very confronting, especially

995
00:47:58,874 --> 00:48:01,154
Speaker 1: for women, to have all these people shouting.

996
00:48:00,754 --> 00:48:04,154
Speaker 2: At paparazzi, that kind of street paparazzi. They are deliberately

997
00:48:04,194 --> 00:48:06,194
Speaker 2: yell provocative things to try and get a reaction because

998
00:48:06,194 --> 00:48:08,274
Speaker 2: they want to face this in way. But does it

999
00:48:08,434 --> 00:48:11,674
Speaker 2: kind of have a real life implication. Do you think

1000
00:48:12,314 --> 00:48:15,594
Speaker 2: I wonder that young women feel very scrutinized anyway right

1001
00:48:15,674 --> 00:48:18,394
Speaker 2: out in the world all the time, and people feel

1002
00:48:18,514 --> 00:48:24,594
Speaker 2: more entitled or more able to say, empowered maybe is

1003
00:48:24,594 --> 00:48:26,634
Speaker 2: the word to say to them, you know, whether it's

1004
00:48:26,714 --> 00:48:29,393
Speaker 2: smile or whether it's like something about their mood or

1005
00:48:29,434 --> 00:48:32,433
Speaker 2: their posture or what they're wearing or whatever. Is it

1006
00:48:32,554 --> 00:48:34,714
Speaker 2: kind of that blown up to eleven?

1007
00:48:35,154 --> 00:48:40,074
Speaker 4: Yes, And I certainly have had so many experiences of

1008
00:48:40,114 --> 00:48:44,794
Speaker 4: being told to smile or feel there's a visibility that

1009
00:48:44,834 --> 00:48:47,914
Speaker 4: I feel in public that I would say, Luca doesn't

1010
00:48:47,994 --> 00:48:49,114
Speaker 4: feel so much.

1011
00:48:49,194 --> 00:48:52,073
Speaker 1: What about now that you're visibly pregnant? Does that change

1012
00:48:52,074 --> 00:48:53,513
Speaker 1: it again? Yes?

1013
00:48:53,754 --> 00:48:58,114
Speaker 4: But I was waiting in a public restroom yesterday and

1014
00:48:58,554 --> 00:49:00,834
Speaker 4: I was waiting in line, and the woman in front

1015
00:49:00,874 --> 00:49:03,194
Speaker 4: of me, who was young, like would have been twenty,

1016
00:49:03,474 --> 00:49:05,674
Speaker 4: said no, no, no, you go first, And I was like, oh,

1017
00:49:05,754 --> 00:49:11,154
Speaker 4: I like this visibility is women good visibility? But I've

1018
00:49:11,194 --> 00:49:14,834
Speaker 4: certainly found it. Even with my daughter, I feel as

1019
00:49:14,834 --> 00:49:19,674
Speaker 4: though the way that she is policed or looked at

1020
00:49:19,794 --> 00:49:24,594
Speaker 4: or commented on is different to a little boy. Like

1021
00:49:24,634 --> 00:49:30,434
Speaker 4: maybe we expect a certain adherence to rules or social

1022
00:49:30,514 --> 00:49:35,274
Speaker 4: standards that I see boys aren't as punished for.

1023
00:49:35,554 --> 00:49:37,954
Speaker 1: That's absolutely true. And I can say that because I

1024
00:49:38,034 --> 00:49:40,274
Speaker 1: have a control group. I have a girl and a

1025
00:49:40,314 --> 00:49:45,114
Speaker 1: boy who are very similar ages, and whenever I am

1026
00:49:45,274 --> 00:49:48,473
Speaker 1: out in public with them without my partners, so it's

1027
00:49:48,514 --> 00:49:54,394
Speaker 1: the three of us without exception, someone will always always

1028
00:49:54,634 --> 00:49:59,994
Speaker 1: say something weird, creepy or unpleasant to my daughter, never

1029
00:50:00,354 --> 00:50:00,993
Speaker 1: to my son.

1030
00:50:01,194 --> 00:50:02,794
Speaker 3: So it's like your son's invisible.

1031
00:50:03,434 --> 00:50:06,354
Speaker 1: It's not that he's invisible, it's that people don't regard

1032
00:50:06,434 --> 00:50:10,234
Speaker 1: him as their business. Yeah right, Okay, He's not their business.

1033
00:50:10,474 --> 00:50:13,873
Speaker 1: She's their business. And I have an example just from

1034
00:50:13,874 --> 00:50:16,354
Speaker 1: this weekend. We were on the light rail here in

1035
00:50:16,434 --> 00:50:18,954
Speaker 1: Sydney and it has a button that you pressed to

1036
00:50:19,114 --> 00:50:23,074
Speaker 1: ask them to stop at the next stop. And my

1037
00:50:23,194 --> 00:50:25,754
Speaker 1: daughter was obsessed with this button. Of course, I mean

1038
00:50:25,794 --> 00:50:28,714
Speaker 1: it's a cool button. And I said, okay, but let's

1039
00:50:28,754 --> 00:50:30,873
Speaker 1: wait until we actually do need to get off. And

1040
00:50:30,914 --> 00:50:32,594
Speaker 1: then it got to the point where it was time

1041
00:50:32,634 --> 00:50:34,834
Speaker 1: to press the button, and she mustered up the courage

1042
00:50:34,834 --> 00:50:36,794
Speaker 1: because she had to walk across the carriage to press

1043
00:50:36,834 --> 00:50:39,794
Speaker 1: the button. And at that very same time, a man

1044
00:50:39,834 --> 00:50:42,433
Speaker 1: sat down in the seat next to the button, and

1045
00:50:42,474 --> 00:50:44,834
Speaker 1: he says to this five year old girl, as she's

1046
00:50:44,874 --> 00:50:47,834
Speaker 1: going to press the button, oh, little lady, you shouldn't

1047
00:50:47,874 --> 00:50:51,154
Speaker 1: do that, like as though she wasn't It wasn't playful.

1048
00:50:51,314 --> 00:50:54,274
Speaker 1: It was actually a little menacing, and it was sort

1049
00:50:54,314 --> 00:50:57,593
Speaker 1: of like saying to her, you don't have the right

1050
00:50:57,674 --> 00:51:00,194
Speaker 1: to cross this train carriage and press this button and

1051
00:51:00,234 --> 00:51:02,873
Speaker 1: assert that you're getting off at the next stop. And

1052
00:51:03,274 --> 00:51:05,913
Speaker 1: what I found interesting about it is that that is

1053
00:51:05,954 --> 00:51:08,474
Speaker 1: the worst thing you can say to a girl, because

1054
00:51:08,474 --> 00:51:13,554
Speaker 1: girls already understand that breaking the rules is the worst

1055
00:51:13,594 --> 00:51:15,993
Speaker 1: thing they can do. Like a little boy breaking the rules,

1056
00:51:16,034 --> 00:51:18,674
Speaker 1: it doesn't stab his heart in the same way, like

1057
00:51:18,834 --> 00:51:20,554
Speaker 1: for a little girl to feel like she's broken the

1058
00:51:20,594 --> 00:51:23,634
Speaker 1: rules is devastating. And so she comes back to me,

1059
00:51:23,714 --> 00:51:25,754
Speaker 1: she's like, you told me I could do it, And

1060
00:51:25,794 --> 00:51:27,393
Speaker 1: I said, of course you could do it. You didn't

1061
00:51:27,394 --> 00:51:29,634
Speaker 1: do anything wrong. I couldn't say anything to this man

1062
00:51:29,754 --> 00:51:31,714
Speaker 1: because I felt that there was a safety issue with

1063
00:51:31,754 --> 00:51:33,473
Speaker 1: the kids there, and I didn't want to get into

1064
00:51:33,514 --> 00:51:35,794
Speaker 1: an altercation, which I would normally love to have with them,

1065
00:51:35,834 --> 00:51:38,234
Speaker 1: but at the time, I just had to be silent.

1066
00:51:38,314 --> 00:51:41,393
Speaker 1: And I think it's sort of an indictment on the

1067
00:51:41,394 --> 00:51:44,873
Speaker 1: fact that we do think that girls need to be

1068
00:51:44,954 --> 00:51:48,234
Speaker 1: policed and surveyed in a way that we don't think

1069
00:51:48,274 --> 00:51:49,634
Speaker 1: that boys need to be.

1070
00:51:49,954 --> 00:51:52,354
Speaker 3: And that we can all tell them what to do.

1071
00:51:52,834 --> 00:51:55,514
Speaker 4: I've wondered too, if we do the same thing to mothers,

1072
00:51:55,994 --> 00:51:57,953
Speaker 4: if it was a man who was with his two kids,

1073
00:51:57,994 --> 00:52:00,114
Speaker 4: if we're less likely because that was also an indictment

1074
00:52:00,154 --> 00:52:02,354
Speaker 4: on you, Yeah, which was also well.

1075
00:52:02,114 --> 00:52:06,033
Speaker 1: I mean not really again, neither of us did anything wrong, Yeah, yeah, yah, Yeah.

1076
00:52:06,034 --> 00:52:08,993
Speaker 1: I felt that it was more about the fact that

1077
00:52:09,474 --> 00:52:13,994
Speaker 1: everyone in that train carriage was watching the girl and

1078
00:52:14,034 --> 00:52:16,914
Speaker 1: what she was doing. They were not watching the boy.

1079
00:52:17,394 --> 00:52:19,754
Speaker 1: The boy could have been climbing from the roof, in fact,

1080
00:52:19,794 --> 00:52:21,914
Speaker 1: he probably was, and no one was watching.

1081
00:52:22,114 --> 00:52:25,194
Speaker 2: It's really interesting because I've spoken a lot about how

1082
00:52:25,314 --> 00:52:29,194
Speaker 2: you feel that lens really really hard on your daughter,

1083
00:52:29,234 --> 00:52:31,714
Speaker 2: when on young women, young girls as they get older,

1084
00:52:32,274 --> 00:52:33,873
Speaker 2: that lens only intensively.

1085
00:52:34,194 --> 00:52:37,034
Speaker 1: Wow, Well, then that culminates with the glambot, yes.

1086
00:52:38,314 --> 00:52:41,154
Speaker 2: Because then it's a lot of opinions about everything they're

1087
00:52:41,194 --> 00:52:43,554
Speaker 2: wearing and what they're doing. And by that time, I

1088
00:52:43,554 --> 00:52:46,274
Speaker 2: think a lot of girls have obviously just internalized the

1089
00:52:46,274 --> 00:52:50,434
Speaker 2: fact that they are constantly being scrutinized, and I think

1090
00:52:50,794 --> 00:52:53,034
Speaker 2: I don't know it's real. Sometimes I wonder about my

1091
00:52:53,074 --> 00:52:56,873
Speaker 2: own complicity in that though, because I definitely tell both

1092
00:52:56,954 --> 00:52:59,074
Speaker 2: my kids all the time to be very polite and

1093
00:52:59,114 --> 00:53:01,514
Speaker 2: if as a stranger talks to you, or like whenever

1094
00:53:01,554 --> 00:53:04,554
Speaker 2: you're in public, is always be nice, Always be polite,

1095
00:53:04,594 --> 00:53:06,594
Speaker 2: Always say thank you, always say hello, and da da

1096
00:53:06,674 --> 00:53:09,314
Speaker 2: da da. And you can see that my daughter probably

1097
00:53:09,314 --> 00:53:11,914
Speaker 2: takes that when she was little, took that on more

1098
00:53:11,994 --> 00:53:15,834
Speaker 2: than my son. Because what you're also telling them is

1099
00:53:16,554 --> 00:53:19,194
Speaker 2: never cause trouble, don't be the rippled, don't be the

1100
00:53:19,234 --> 00:53:22,873
Speaker 2: squeaky wheel, like just remove yourself if things get complicated, like,

1101
00:53:23,234 --> 00:53:24,234
Speaker 2: but you prepare.

1102
00:53:23,914 --> 00:53:25,714
Speaker 4: Them for the real world, which is as a girl,

1103
00:53:25,754 --> 00:53:28,314
Speaker 4: you're going to be punished more for rudeness than a

1104
00:53:28,354 --> 00:53:28,714
Speaker 4: man is.

1105
00:53:28,954 --> 00:53:31,674
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're going to be watched more like to put

1106
00:53:32,154 --> 00:53:34,234
Speaker 1: a point on it, like you're going to be scrutinized.

1107
00:53:34,354 --> 00:53:34,594
Speaker 3: You are.

1108
00:53:34,714 --> 00:53:37,994
Speaker 2: And that's why I remember when Chapel Rone, you know,

1109
00:53:38,074 --> 00:53:42,033
Speaker 2: the musician the artist yelled at red carpet photographers last

1110
00:53:42,114 --> 00:53:44,754
Speaker 2: year and she was having a moment where she was

1111
00:53:44,794 --> 00:53:47,114
Speaker 2: the biggest musician in the world, but the world had

1112
00:53:47,154 --> 00:53:49,953
Speaker 2: suddenly decided she was a brat, and that was one

1113
00:53:49,994 --> 00:53:52,634
Speaker 2: of the moments that contributed to that, because she basically

1114
00:53:52,674 --> 00:53:55,554
Speaker 2: said to them, stop yelling at me, stop pointing at

1115
00:53:55,554 --> 00:53:57,114
Speaker 2: me and telling me where to stand. I don't like it.

1116
00:53:57,154 --> 00:53:58,714
Speaker 2: And I remember us talking about it on the show

1117
00:53:58,754 --> 00:54:01,754
Speaker 2: at the time and saying something like it kind of

1118
00:54:01,754 --> 00:54:05,314
Speaker 2: feels refreshing that there's there are these young women who

1119
00:54:05,314 --> 00:54:08,234
Speaker 2: were like, no, like, if you don't get to tell

1120
00:54:08,274 --> 00:54:10,594
Speaker 2: me to smile, you don't get to tell me. But

1121
00:54:10,634 --> 00:54:12,514
Speaker 2: then on the other hand, we're like, oh, she's a

1122
00:54:12,514 --> 00:54:15,114
Speaker 2: bit of herself. She like, you know, I would be

1123
00:54:15,114 --> 00:54:16,393
Speaker 2: grateful to be here.

1124
00:54:16,394 --> 00:54:19,953
Speaker 1: Pretty inarguably, her career has suffered from that. I think

1125
00:54:19,994 --> 00:54:23,274
Speaker 1: ever since then, she's kind of retreated a little bit

1126
00:54:23,474 --> 00:54:26,114
Speaker 1: from the public conversation. And I think it's because we

1127
00:54:26,154 --> 00:54:28,594
Speaker 1: don't really want to hear from a woman being difficult

1128
00:54:28,634 --> 00:54:31,794
Speaker 1: in that way, absolutely and rejecting our gaze.

1129
00:54:31,874 --> 00:54:33,754
Speaker 2: We don't want to see the result of that. If

1130
00:54:33,754 --> 00:54:36,114
Speaker 2: you think that a lot of young women and girls,

1131
00:54:36,194 --> 00:54:39,553
Speaker 2: and we feel that scrutiny anyway turned up to way

1132
00:54:39,594 --> 00:54:42,194
Speaker 2: beyond eleven if you're famous, and then when it seems

1133
00:54:42,194 --> 00:54:45,034
Speaker 2: to visibly affect somebody and they begin to crack under that,

1134
00:54:45,154 --> 00:54:47,554
Speaker 2: then we judge them for it. It's a tricky one

1135
00:54:47,554 --> 00:54:51,154
Speaker 2: to get right. But j Lo, she's been living with

1136
00:54:51,194 --> 00:54:53,314
Speaker 2: this for a long time. I think she may be

1137
00:54:53,434 --> 00:54:56,234
Speaker 2: wishing she just said hi, thanks to Cole.

1138
00:54:56,354 --> 00:54:58,674
Speaker 4: At this moment, I just think about her and Ben,

1139
00:54:58,714 --> 00:55:01,314
Speaker 4: and I just wonder if you know she's still grieving,

1140
00:55:01,714 --> 00:55:02,873
Speaker 4: they keep getting back together.

1141
00:55:03,914 --> 00:55:06,754
Speaker 1: So maybe I think Jane Garner's got the upper hand

1142
00:55:06,794 --> 00:55:07,114
Speaker 1: right now.

1143
00:55:07,434 --> 00:55:10,114
Speaker 4: I just well, maybe she just learned that and then

1144
00:55:10,154 --> 00:55:12,033
Speaker 4: she had to go into the Glambot and she wasn't

1145
00:55:12,034 --> 00:55:12,754
Speaker 4: feeling chatty.

1146
00:55:12,834 --> 00:55:13,554
Speaker 3: We've all been there.

1147
00:55:13,794 --> 00:55:18,033
Speaker 2: Gana doesn't want it. Who knows better? Out louders, thank

1148
00:55:18,074 --> 00:55:20,474
Speaker 2: you so much for having us in your ears this Monday.

1149
00:55:20,554 --> 00:55:21,794
Speaker 2: Welcome back to me and I.

1150
00:55:21,754 --> 00:55:26,314
Speaker 4: Have something to tell subscribers before we go. This is

1151
00:55:26,394 --> 00:55:29,314
Speaker 4: very exciting. Now, Amelia, you're a reformer, plarates girl.

1152
00:55:29,354 --> 00:55:29,873
Speaker 1: I love it.

1153
00:55:29,954 --> 00:55:31,594
Speaker 3: You love some reformer right.

1154
00:55:31,594 --> 00:55:33,553
Speaker 1: I love exercising while lying down.

1155
00:55:33,754 --> 00:55:37,794
Speaker 3: Yes, my dream is to have a reformer in my heart.

1156
00:55:37,874 --> 00:55:38,714
Speaker 1: Dream dream.

1157
00:55:38,794 --> 00:55:41,674
Speaker 3: That's just like a dream that I will have made it.

1158
00:55:41,994 --> 00:55:43,074
Speaker 3: If I have a reformer in.

1159
00:55:42,994 --> 00:55:46,034
Speaker 1: Mate, I will be on Diary of ac Yes, talking

1160
00:55:46,034 --> 00:55:48,914
Speaker 1: about green juice and my Reformer workouts.

1161
00:55:48,474 --> 00:55:49,394
Speaker 3: At home exactly.

1162
00:55:49,554 --> 00:55:52,714
Speaker 4: Well, did you know that we are giving away the

1163
00:55:52,834 --> 00:55:55,354
Speaker 4: ultimate prize for your New Year Reset?

1164
00:55:55,834 --> 00:55:56,714
Speaker 3: It is a.

1165
00:55:56,794 --> 00:56:00,554
Speaker 4: Complete your Reformer home studio package is valued at more

1166
00:56:00,594 --> 00:56:04,154
Speaker 4: than three thy four hundred dollars. And if you are

1167
00:56:04,354 --> 00:56:06,874
Speaker 4: currently a subscriber, you're a paid subscribers.

1168
00:56:06,914 --> 00:56:09,953
Speaker 3: Mum, you're in the running, right mum? You could win this,

1169
00:56:10,314 --> 00:56:10,634
Speaker 3: you are.

1170
00:56:10,914 --> 00:56:11,913
Speaker 1: That's amazing.

1171
00:56:12,634 --> 00:56:15,234
Speaker 4: So if you are not yet a paid subscriber and

1172
00:56:15,234 --> 00:56:16,514
Speaker 4: you want to be in the running, all you have

1173
00:56:16,554 --> 00:56:19,194
Speaker 4: to do is become one before February first.

1174
00:56:19,274 --> 00:56:20,873
Speaker 3: I don't know, that's a few weeks.

1175
00:56:20,794 --> 00:56:23,434
Speaker 4: But you could win a Reform. I really want a Reformer.

1176
00:56:23,474 --> 00:56:25,873
Speaker 4: I don't think that I'm technically a subscriber. I think

1177
00:56:25,914 --> 00:56:26,834
Speaker 4: that also.

1178
00:56:26,914 --> 00:56:29,274
Speaker 1: Do you think you would end up putting clothes on

1179
00:56:29,314 --> 00:56:31,154
Speaker 1: your Reformer? You know how there's that chair?

1180
00:56:31,434 --> 00:56:35,033
Speaker 3: Yea, because in my dream I have a home gym.

1181
00:56:35,114 --> 00:56:37,114
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, okay, so it goes next.

1182
00:56:36,914 --> 00:56:38,594
Speaker 3: To my peloton.

1183
00:56:38,794 --> 00:56:42,834
Speaker 4: I don't know I have a Reformer, and I'm just

1184
00:56:42,914 --> 00:56:43,394
Speaker 4: I can't.

1185
00:56:43,234 --> 00:56:45,594
Speaker 1: Tell you howman never killed mister big.

1186
00:56:45,634 --> 00:56:48,393
Speaker 4: No exactly right, because he would have been laying down

1187
00:56:48,434 --> 00:56:51,513
Speaker 4: better for the heart, don't We're going full diary see

1188
00:56:51,714 --> 00:56:54,234
Speaker 4: without help, watch out, watch out.

1189
00:56:55,154 --> 00:56:56,394
Speaker 1: But go in the running.

1190
00:56:56,434 --> 00:56:59,154
Speaker 4: I'm so excited for this person who's gonna win one.

1191
00:56:59,474 --> 00:57:01,513
Speaker 3: There is a link in the show notes to become

1192
00:57:01,554 --> 00:57:02,194
Speaker 3: a subscriber.

1193
00:57:02,434 --> 00:57:04,794
Speaker 2: We'll be back in your ears tomorrow.

1194
00:57:05,114 --> 00:57:05,474
Speaker 7: Aye.

1195
00:57:10,474 --> 00:57:13,714
Speaker 2: Mommamere acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which

1196
00:57:13,754 --> 00:57:15,354
Speaker 2: we've recorded this podcast.