Speaker 1: You're listening to I'm Ama Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome.
Speaker 3: To what women are actually talking about on Monday Friday.
Speaker 1: So I forgot to say the name of Saturday.
Speaker 3: I think maybe this is a Friday problem. Hello, and
Speaker 3: welcome to Mom and Mia out loud. It's what women
Speaker 3: are actually talking about on Friday, the twenty third of
Speaker 3: February January.
Speaker 4: Wow, can we go home now? I'm done?
Speaker 1: What's wrong with me? It's been a week. I've all distracted. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I'm Holly way By. I got that bit allegedly.
Speaker 2: Allegedly, I'm and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 3: And here's what's on our agenda for today for our
Speaker 3: Friday show. Maybe you've recovered from watching Heated Rivalry. Maybe
Speaker 3: you're about to dive in whatever. It's a global phenom.
Speaker 3: It has been now for a good month or so.
Speaker 3: And em has a theory about why straight women are
Speaker 3: obsessed with queer romance.
Speaker 2: And if you haven't watched it, I'm here and hold
Speaker 2: your hand.
Speaker 1: You don't need to have watched it.
Speaker 3: You definitely don't need to have watched it because it's
Speaker 3: bigger than those two hockey players.
Speaker 4: Plus there are new way friends are hanging out now.
Speaker 1: It doesn't involve wine. It does involve the taxes.
Speaker 2: It can it always can sound moveing and am I
Speaker 2: venting too much? The answer is definitely. But does that
Speaker 2: make me a bad friend because according to some experts, yes, yes.
Speaker 4: But first, in case you missed it, two besties named
Speaker 4: Matt Damon and Beneffleck might have heard of them. I'm
Speaker 4: loving seeing them on the press sir as a bring
Speaker 4: back memories. It doesn't also like individually they both can
Speaker 4: be a little gen X problematic e but together they're unstoppable.
Speaker 2: No, Matt Damon has a free pass for me. They're
Speaker 2: so clever and they're so wise, and they're so good
Speaker 2: at what they do. They're true artists. They've made some
Speaker 2: great stuff.
Speaker 3: I think that every time Ben marries j Lo, he's
Speaker 3: just gone through a period where him and Matt didn't
Speaker 3: talk very much.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know Matt's just like Ben. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: then a picture like consoling j Loo at the back
Speaker 4: of like some truck.
Speaker 2: Yes, Matt is very very good for Ben. And I
Speaker 2: feel like Matt's wife is a bit every time Ben's
Speaker 2: name comes up, she's like, here we go again, Here
Speaker 2: we go.
Speaker 1: Again anyway. Sorry, when we digressed pretty hard there on,
Speaker 1: Mat and Ben did we we did? We did.
Speaker 4: But they've released because I feel like they love doing
Speaker 4: stuff together.
Speaker 1: Yes, we know.
Speaker 4: They released a new movie called The Rip. It is
Speaker 4: currently on Netflix, and they've been doing a bit of
Speaker 4: a press tour. They recently went on Joe Rogan's podcast
Speaker 4: and they were talking about.
Speaker 3: See what I mean about slightly gen X problematic?
Speaker 1: He sometimes did they both go on or was it
Speaker 1: just Matt?
Speaker 4: It was just Matt, I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 4: it was Ben, both of them, both of them.
Speaker 2: Really okay, yes, yes, yes, I would like to listen
Speaker 2: to that.
Speaker 1: If you've got to spare four hours anyway. Anyway, so they.
Speaker 4: Were talking regardless of let's pretend Joe Rogans okay, okay,
Speaker 4: it's just the two of them.
Speaker 1: He's there like us.
Speaker 4: Matt was talking about how releasing a movie on streaming
Speaker 4: services like Netflix is very different to releasing movies and
Speaker 4: cinemas now, and it's all about attention. He was saying
Speaker 4: that there are some behind the scenes conversations that happen
Speaker 4: with streaming services where they asked to do a big
Speaker 4: act in the beginning of a movie. To capture people's
Speaker 4: attention straight away, where usually they'll.
Speaker 1: Do it a bit later in the movie.
Speaker 4: And they've also been asked to include in the dialogue
Speaker 4: talk about the plot points within the dialogue three to
Speaker 4: four times throughout the whole movie to account for people
Speaker 4: who look at their phones while watching.
Speaker 1: So like a little recap.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so reality TV has always done this right, Like
Speaker 3: the thing that means I cannot watch it is I'll
Speaker 3: be watching the Kardashians or whatever, and it'll be like
Speaker 3: this happens, and then it'll be after the break, this
Speaker 3: is gonna happen, and then it come back after the breaking,
Speaker 3: it's like this happened, and that's going to happen.
Speaker 2: But like they're constant and then it gives you a flashback.
Speaker 2: It references anything. There is no assumed knowledge at any
Speaker 2: point in time, and.
Speaker 3: It's constant orienting the audience all the time. And now
Speaker 3: drama does it too, exactly.
Speaker 4: So what I'm assuming happens is like I haven't watched
Speaker 4: the rip, don't know anything about it, but I'm assuming
Speaker 4: it's like Matt and Ben, and Ben's like, Matt, we
Speaker 4: have to go save my family. And then like there's
Speaker 4: twenty minutes, and then Matt's like, don't forget Ben, we
Speaker 4: have to save your family. And then that happens another
Speaker 4: three or four times.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and then Ben is crying subtly. But then Matt
Speaker 2: has to be like, Ben, are you crying? Like he
Speaker 2: has to sign post that and just let everyone on
Speaker 2: the phone.
Speaker 4: If he's crying, And then we're like, wait, he's crying.
Speaker 1: He's crying. That's interesting.
Speaker 3: It's like that plot narrative about Chekhov's gone. If there's
Speaker 3: a gun in a show, you know that at some
Speaker 3: point the gun's going to be used, and so you're like,
Speaker 3: you've got a clue in your head off, but remember
Speaker 3: there's that gun. But in this version of that, every
Speaker 3: five minutes someone has to say, but.
Speaker 1: Remember the gun.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's because of second screens.
Speaker 1: Right exactly.
Speaker 4: And to that, I say, make movies more interesting.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, I find this thing about so it used
Speaker 2: to be the drama had to happen about fifteen minutes
Speaker 2: in right, or we know that. In novels, the rule
Speaker 2: is they call it the sort of the end of
Speaker 2: the beginning, the end of the first third. They go,
Speaker 2: make the drama happen. Has been the conventional thinking. But
Speaker 2: our attention spans are so shot, and there are so
Speaker 2: many other books you can pick up, so many TV
Speaker 2: shows you could watch. There's a TikTok that will give
Speaker 2: you some entertainment in twelve seconds. That now, a lot
Speaker 2: of the advice is, and a lot of the notes
Speaker 2: that people get is it needs to be immediate. That
Speaker 2: first scene needs to get you. So you think about
Speaker 2: like your dead bodies at the beginning, Yes, what that
Speaker 2: costs you? So the example, I remember doing a course
Speaker 2: about it and the Exorcist, great great movie. There's a
Speaker 2: device called various similitude, which is where you establish who
Speaker 2: the characters are and the ordinariness of their lives, and
Speaker 2: it makes everyone feel like that can't be me. That
Speaker 2: could be Oh, yes, we're just going to school, We're
Speaker 2: just hanging out with mum, having some dinner, and then boom,
Speaker 2: you put the drama in and suddenly she's possessed by
Speaker 2: the devil and you're way more invested. But how many
Speaker 2: times do we all sit down now and go, I'm
Speaker 2: going to give this five minutes, and if I'm not in,
Speaker 2: then I'm going to go and watch something else on
Speaker 2: my list.
Speaker 3: Look, it's sad that you've just brought up books about that,
Speaker 3: because when I was at a writing thing recently, they're saying,
Speaker 3: how that's why, and I've done this. I've done this
Speaker 3: in at least one book, maybe two. That's why prologues
Speaker 3: are so big now, right. The lazy explanation for what
Speaker 3: a prologue is is take the most interesting, action packed
Speaker 3: bit of the book, put it at the beginning, then
Speaker 3: go back to the beginning. If you know that that happens,
Speaker 3: you'll see it everywhere. And now TV is similar. We're
Speaker 3: going to talk about heated rivalry in a minute, but
Speaker 3: on the rest of his entertainment, Marina Hyde was saying,
Speaker 3: one of the reasons that show works so well for
Speaker 3: like a second screening audience and every kind of audience
Speaker 3: is that from the first shot, the first second of
Speaker 3: the first scene, you know exactly what it's about. There's
Speaker 3: no like, here's this guy going about his life like
Speaker 3: you say, Jesse, and here's this guy going about his
Speaker 3: life and maybe at some point they're going to bump
Speaker 3: into each other and chemistry, it's like, no. From the
Speaker 3: first shot is the two of them looking at each other,
Speaker 3: and it's.
Speaker 1: Like, oh, it's on.
Speaker 2: And interestingly, when they stay second screen, the second screen
Speaker 2: isn't your phone. Your phone is a first screen. So
Speaker 2: your phone is the first screen that you're looking at,
Speaker 2: that you're scrolling that you're apparently sixty to ninety percent
Speaker 2: of viewers they know are doing it. In which case
Speaker 2: that Netflix show that maybe wants to be prestige or
Speaker 2: wants to present some compelling, nuanced ideas, that needs to
Speaker 2: accept its position as a second screen or not.
Speaker 3: I think this is a tale of two different kinds
Speaker 3: of stories, right, because the flip side of this is
Speaker 3: a show like Stranger Things, which has obsessed the world
Speaker 3: for the summer before the hockey players came away. Actually
Speaker 3: with their bugs is the opposite, Right. It's got so
Speaker 3: much plot, and it's complicated plot, and it's weird plot,
Speaker 3: and there's law, and there's fifteen different levels, and it
Speaker 3: allows the audience to get fully invested and become obsessed
Speaker 3: with theories and share their fan theories forever.
Speaker 1: There are lots of shows like that, right.
Speaker 4: Ben gave the example of adolescents on Netflix as well.
Speaker 1: It doesn't do that.
Speaker 3: Yes, well that's very different too, and that's a different
Speaker 3: kind of prestige. It's kind of like TV's either one
Speaker 3: of two things. It's either very simplistic, tell me the
Speaker 3: plot five times, or it's this is a mystery for
Speaker 3: you to solve and have twenty five theory with your
Speaker 3: friends about and make millions of tiktoks about and this
Speaker 3: thing and that thing and maybe that happened. And it's
Speaker 3: kind of like, choose your adventure of those two things.
Speaker 2: Does that make us lazier? Though? Although I must say
Speaker 2: when I was watching Severance, I definitely had phone down.
Speaker 3: I don't second screen if it's something I've chosen to watch.
Speaker 2: I really try not to and I need to have
Speaker 2: my phone in another room like I can't have it in.
Speaker 4: But does that like your problem or is it the
Speaker 4: people who are making the movies problem? Because I say
Speaker 4: I shouldn't feel like I need to touch my phone,
Speaker 4: Like when I watched Sinners, for example, I forgot my
Speaker 4: phone even existed.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think the show can be so brilliant, but if
Speaker 2: we have access to a phone, if we can touch it,
Speaker 2: whether it's notification, whatever, we also don't have any tolerance
Speaker 2: for not understanding something. So if it's a reference to
Speaker 2: or we go where's the active from? And then someone
Speaker 2: goes looks it up or whatever. Then you're lost.
Speaker 3: It's the accessory to the show. You're like, I've got
Speaker 3: to google that.
Speaker 1: What big is?
Speaker 3: Where is Greenland so interesting? So we're staying on TV
Speaker 3: for a minute. It took me a moment to get
Speaker 3: onto Heated Rivalry, And as Jesse says, if you're not
Speaker 3: on the bandwagon, if you're sick of hearing about it,
Speaker 3: don't worry because that's not really what.
Speaker 1: We're talking about. And if you are obsessed.
Speaker 3: Emma and I did a subs episode last week Yes
Speaker 3: with Mia where they in particular explained a lot of
Speaker 3: the behind the scenes stuff to me and all that stuff,
Speaker 3: that's not really what we're talking about. This is about
Speaker 3: something a bit broader. In that subset, em brought something
Speaker 3: up to me that now I'm seeing everywhere. You're very
Speaker 3: very it's just very clever our Urnham. It's not just
Speaker 3: about Heated Rivalry. But just to give you an idea
Speaker 3: of the scale of the phenomen of that show, it
Speaker 3: was made pretty independent show, lots of If you watch
Speaker 3: the credits at the end, there's like a million different
Speaker 3: Canadian film companies involved. They didn't know it was going
Speaker 3: to be so huge. It's a very low budget, and
Speaker 3: they should have known it was going to be so
Speaker 3: huge because it's based on a very successful book series,
Speaker 3: and that book series is part of a whole genre
Speaker 3: of queer tilting romance that is very squarely marketed at
Speaker 3: and consumed by straight women, young women. Book Talks got
Speaker 3: a lot to do with this, but also older women.
Speaker 3: We talked on the show about romance genres of last
Speaker 3: year and how that's a genre of publishing that's still
Speaker 3: going crazy. And this is a very established, like male
Speaker 3: to male, queer stories being consumed by straight women are
Speaker 3: a very big and well known phenomena. Apparently about eighty
Speaker 3: percent of the people who buy those books are women,
Speaker 3: and of that eighty sixty percent of them identify as straight,
Speaker 3: with the others identifying as like queerbye gay. But there's
Speaker 3: a very clear marketing push towards straight women on these books.
Speaker 3: So one of the things that's really interesting.
Speaker 1: About this is that why is that? And there's a good.
Speaker 3: Theory which m brought up, which is that watching two men,
Speaker 3: if you're a straight woman, watching two men fall in
Speaker 3: love have a messy relationship, have some sex, break up,
Speaker 3: get back together, whatever is freeing because you have a
Speaker 3: holiday from putting yourself in the story.
Speaker 4: That's what you said, right, Yeah, I feel like when
Speaker 4: we watch like romance movies or TV shows and it's
Speaker 4: a man and a woman, you automatically insert yourself in
Speaker 4: the women's shoes and you firstly nitpick her. You're like, oh,
Speaker 4: she's such a pick me. She wouldn't do this, Why
Speaker 4: is she doing this? Why is she wearing Why is
Speaker 4: she wearing that? When you put yourself in her shoes
Speaker 4: in another way by going oh, she shouldn't accept that.
Speaker 4: For him, why is she doing that? Why is she
Speaker 4: sending him nudes? What's going on? And then when I
Speaker 4: watched Heated Rivalry, I didn't feel any of that because
Speaker 4: my self couldn't be in that physically, So I was
Speaker 4: just sitting back and going, this is just such a
Speaker 4: nice show.
Speaker 3: A name for it, yeah, Oh, it's called Escaping the
Speaker 3: heroin Bird.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 3: So there's a whole established theory about this, because, as
Speaker 3: you say, is that a certain amount of baggage comes
Speaker 3: with watching a straight relationship, especially now when dating is
Speaker 3: really complicated and the politics of dating is very front
Speaker 3: and center. A classic example of this might be, for example,
Speaker 3: if you have been watching Heated Rivalry. In the second episode,
Speaker 3: the hot Russian basically treats the other guy in a
Speaker 3: way that if that was a woman, we would not
Speaker 3: accept it. He ghosts him, he nags him, you know, he's
Speaker 3: kind of dismissive and rude to him.
Speaker 4: He has sex with him and not even kiss him.
Speaker 3: And tells him to get out straight afterwards, and those things.
Speaker 3: If that was a male female romance on mainstream TV,
Speaker 3: we would be like, the culture would be like, get out, girl,
Speaker 3: you deserve better than that. And I don't know that
Speaker 3: now we would accept that as an obstacle to true
Speaker 3: love in a way that is presented here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that the dynamics are different, not that
Speaker 2: that's not problematic or not that power doesn't exist in
Speaker 2: queer love stories, because it does, but the traditional gender
Speaker 2: dynamics that we project don't exist so much. And whether
Speaker 2: it's movies or television or books, when there's a heterosexual
Speaker 2: a man a woman who are having sex, there's generally
Speaker 2: speaking a subject and an object, and the woman is
Speaker 2: nearly always the object. Even the way that she's filmed.
Speaker 3: There is this Do you think that's still true with
Speaker 3: all the female gayzy sex stuff we watch these days
Speaker 3: that you're Bridgeton's.
Speaker 2: And I think it's so firmly entrenched that ninety five
Speaker 2: percent of the time that's what it is. And then
Speaker 2: I also think it's so socialized that women do it automatically.
Speaker 2: So there's this phenomenon that's been written lots about where
Speaker 2: women in real life who are having sex almost watch
Speaker 2: themselves from above, and they watch what they look like
Speaker 2: and how they sound, and that's how they've internalized how
Speaker 2: sex should be. That it's something that's acted upon them
Speaker 2: by a man. He is the subject. It's all about
Speaker 2: his pleasure, and she is the object in it, like performing, Yeah,
Speaker 2: exactly performing. And this is why I remember writing something
Speaker 2: years ago about all this data came out of Pornhub
Speaker 2: or something about man on men sex and lesbian porn,
Speaker 2: like and how it was consumed overwhelmingly by straight women.
Speaker 2: Why do so many straight women watch gay porn and
Speaker 2: lesbian porn? So why is it that they're not watching
Speaker 2: porn that would reflect their lived experience. They're actually trying
Speaker 2: to seek out something that's different to what they and
Speaker 2: part of it might be that it's a fantasy, or
Speaker 2: part of it might be by curiosity or whatever it is.
Speaker 2: But a lot of the studies actually found firstly, they
Speaker 2: don't and I think that we've we've probably all seen
Speaker 2: this in television or whatever where you go all that
Speaker 2: looks like it hurts. I've had an experience like that
Speaker 2: and it's making me feel really uncomfortable or whatever. This
Speaker 2: is just more simply about pleasure in a way that
Speaker 2: women find very liberating. I think.
Speaker 1: I think that's true.
Speaker 3: But I also think it's beyond the sex, like I
Speaker 3: think in Heated Rivalry, even though it's very famous for
Speaker 3: its sex scenes, I think it's also about the relationship dynamics.
Speaker 3: And you're right, Jesse, in what you just pointed out,
Speaker 3: there's definitely something difficult here about the idea that in
Speaker 3: some ways, and there's lots of commentary out there about this,
Speaker 3: that in some ways this kind of objectifies or patronizes
Speaker 3: gay relationships, simplifies them them and also that straight women
Speaker 3: or straight seeming women who are actually writing these books
Speaker 3: and everything, like hmm, just a little bit of you know,
Speaker 3: controversy there about them hovering up all those dollars. But
Speaker 3: also I think that it's beyond the sex. I think
Speaker 3: it's about the romance. Like we know how complicated dating
Speaker 3: is and the politics of dating are now, and we
Speaker 3: always over always over relate to female protagonists. I mean
Speaker 3: as a writer, I know this. One of my books
Speaker 3: in particular, like the female protagonists got so much shit
Speaker 3: from other women through me, like say, but she does this,
Speaker 3: and she does that, and she shouldn't have done that,
Speaker 3: and she cheated and she shouldn't have cheated, and that.
Speaker 3: We just don't put on male protagonists, or we do
Speaker 3: it differently. And it's funny because as you get older,
Speaker 3: like I don't relate to when I see young hot
Speaker 3: people having sex, I don't or falling in love, I'm
Speaker 3: not really relating because now that's like apples and oranges
Speaker 3: in a way. But I think that it's very hard
Speaker 3: not to when you're in that world.
Speaker 4: But also when we're looking at romance novels and movies
Speaker 4: about men and women, and I think the author and
Speaker 4: the film creator automatically want you to relate to the
Speaker 4: woman because that's who they're marketing towards.
Speaker 1: And then they're trying to.
Speaker 4: Make the guy in it to be the most appealing
Speaker 4: guy ever. Like when we talk about Emily Henry and
Speaker 4: her books, like she uses the most best man that
Speaker 4: you could ever dream of, because like you want that
Speaker 4: character to get with him, and.
Speaker 3: Think about the discourse around Nobody wants this a massive
Speaker 3: smash exactly where everybody's like, great, non toxic relationship, wonderful boyfriend,
Speaker 3: he does all the things right, he calls her, he
Speaker 3: does all the things, and that's all great, but it's
Speaker 3: not obstacles in a sexy romance.
Speaker 4: Yes, and because there's still two of them and they're
Speaker 4: both the main characters, the woman is always a bit
Speaker 4: more of the main character. Wasn't heated rivalry. You're still
Speaker 4: appealing to women, but you have two men, so you're
Speaker 4: allowing them to both be main characters in their own right.
Speaker 4: So you're able to follow both of their storylines as
Speaker 4: independent people while they're also together.
Speaker 2: And it's not overlaid with complicated feminist politics, the idea
Speaker 2: that we're so sensitive to a woman who's desperate to
Speaker 2: find love or like acts in a way that's like
Speaker 2: damsel in distress. There are all these tropes that have
Speaker 2: been overused in cliches and there's just something so fresh
Speaker 2: about having this on screen where you can put all
Speaker 2: of that aside and just take your hat off.
Speaker 1: He can leave it at the door.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because in this story Ilia the Russian hockey player,
Speaker 3: he is a textbook bad boy really, like he's unavailable, serious,
Speaker 3: he's all the things that a textbook bad boy hero
Speaker 3: would be in a traditional romance. But somehow that has
Speaker 3: very much fallen out of favor. God knows what people
Speaker 3: are going to think about Wuthering Heights with that, with
Speaker 3: that in mine, but that has very much fallen out
Speaker 3: of favor now, and this kind of just allows you
Speaker 3: to go.
Speaker 1: Ah.
Speaker 3: One of the reasons I think that women over relate
Speaker 3: so much to characters and get so upset with them,
Speaker 3: Like can't just let them live?
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Just can't let your character just do whatever is because
Speaker 3: we're never allowed to you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 3: we're not allowed to just live and do whatever without judgment.
Speaker 3: We've been brought up since day dot with that, So
Speaker 3: we're like, well, why should she be able to just
Speaker 3: behave that way?
Speaker 1: You know, we're trying.
Speaker 3: Know that might not be a conscious thought, but it's
Speaker 3: a subconscious thought that We're like, well, we can't just
Speaker 3: let her live like, That's not how it works.
Speaker 1: You're a woman in the world.
Speaker 2: Out Louders in a moment, are you venting too much?
Speaker 5: Hey, out louders, it's Mia remember me. I hope you do.
Speaker 5: It's been so fun for those of you who are
Speaker 5: already subscribers being back in your ears twice a week
Speaker 5: on our subscriber episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. This week,
Speaker 5: on Tuesday, I did an emergency meeting with Holly and
Speaker 5: Jesse to unpack the latest becon Family Drama.
Speaker 1: It was epic.
Speaker 5: And then yesterday in Thursday's episode, I learned what Jesse
Speaker 5: and Holly did over summer and what I did over summer.
Speaker 5: Told them we had very very different summers. Have a listen,
Speaker 5: There's a link in the show notes, and thank you
Speaker 5: for subscribing.
Speaker 3: If you already do out loud as. We have got
Speaker 3: a listener dilemma and we need your collective wisdom to
Speaker 3: help us and our partners UI solve it. So here
Speaker 3: it is friends you ready. Yeah, My husband and I
Speaker 3: have decided to move to the Gold Coast, Lovely in
Speaker 3: the middle of the year with our two daughters aged
Speaker 3: three and five. We currently live in Sydney and both
Speaker 3: work full time and we're finding it a lot to
Speaker 3: make ends meet, so the decision is part financial.
Speaker 1: Part lifestyle.
Speaker 3: We're really excited about our decision and looking forward to
Speaker 3: sharing the news with our family. But my husband works
Speaker 3: for his family business and while it's been an amazing opportunity,
Speaker 3: it's time for him to his own thing.
Speaker 1: Is your husband, Brooklyn Beckham.
Speaker 3: We know his parents are not going to be happy
Speaker 3: and will pressure us to stay. They'll make us feel
Speaker 3: guilty about leaving the business and also about not being
Speaker 3: able to see their grandkids as often. We know it's
Speaker 3: from place of love, but we just don't want the
Speaker 3: joy to be taken out of our decision. How do
Speaker 3: we tackle this? My husband is saying we should have
Speaker 3: the conversation together. However, I don't work for the family business,
Speaker 3: so I think it's better if he has the conversation
Speaker 3: with his family first.
Speaker 1: Smart move.
Speaker 3: It's a really hard one, but we just want them
Speaker 3: to be happy for us. My question is what do
Speaker 3: you do next?
Speaker 2: Oh, I've got an answer to this. There are parts
Speaker 2: of this question that I think reveal that you are
Speaker 2: trying to control how his parents are going to feel
Speaker 2: about it. And I got the best advice once. I
Speaker 2: was like, but if I say that, they're going to
Speaker 2: get upset, and someone said to me, what you're doing
Speaker 2: is manipulative, which is you're trying to control their response,
Speaker 2: which is none of your business and not your responsibility.
Speaker 2: Let them let them. I probably think it's a big thing.
Speaker 2: It's a family decision. If your husband would love you
Speaker 2: sitting next to him when he tells them, that's probably
Speaker 2: a mine.
Speaker 4: But it's a business.
Speaker 2: It's a business.
Speaker 4: But mom and me, and I bring my mum in guys,
Speaker 4: me and my mom would like.
Speaker 1: To let you know.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I reckon that if you're telling your in laws, we're
Speaker 2: moving into state, and that's a big thing, and there's
Speaker 2: going to be grief, and there's going to be the business,
Speaker 2: I feel is also a distraction. I reckon that it's
Speaker 2: bigger than that. But you need to work out exactly
Speaker 2: what you're going to say, and then you've got to
Speaker 2: accept their response because they're allowed to be really upset,
Speaker 2: they're allowed to be mad, they're allowed to yell, they're
Speaker 2: allowed to do whatever they want.
Speaker 1: But it's kind of none of your business.
Speaker 3: And also you are allowed to move to the Gold Coast. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so that's our advice. I say go go go out
Speaker 3: loud as what would you do next? Share your thoughts
Speaker 3: in the mama Mia out loud Facebook group.
Speaker 1: Also, if you have a.
Speaker 3: Dilemma, send it to us at out loud at mamamea
Speaker 3: dot com dot au.
Speaker 1: We would love to help you out.
Speaker 2: I think I've probably reached my friends venting threshold for
Speaker 2: this year, and it's barely past mid January.
Speaker 1: I feel like you get a past event.
Speaker 3: She's pregnant with twins, she's gotlations.
Speaker 2: There's a lot going on. But I'm interested in your
Speaker 2: opinion because this article made me a bit worried about
Speaker 2: my venting. Earlier this month, I came across a story
Speaker 2: in the Atlantic that asked if venting, which was once
Speaker 2: treated as a basic expression of closeness, has it been
Speaker 2: rebranded as risky and even impolite? Is it now something
Speaker 2: that we see as like quite rude to sit there
Speaker 2: at a dinner table and take up space just winging.
Speaker 2: Julie Beck cites research that has shown that venting doesn't
Speaker 2: actually reduce anger, it fuels it and to be transparent
Speaker 2: about what venting. It's giving free expression to strong emotions,
Speaker 2: particularly anger or frustration. So Mel Robbins, who we referred
Speaker 2: to just before, she says venting as a trap, hence
Speaker 2: why you should just let them, whereas some experts, like
Speaker 2: a social psychologists they speak to in this story says
Speaker 2: venting helps people feel connected, validated, and ultimately more energized
Speaker 2: to deal with the problem at hand.
Speaker 3: So say I'm venting to my friends about work or whatever,
Speaker 3: and I'm like really upset about something that seems quite small,
Speaker 3: and they encourage my venting that I'm encouraged to stay
Speaker 3: in that angry space. Is that what like the male
Speaker 3: robbins Is of the world are worried about rather that.
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, it just gets more and more heated.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So on the one hand, you've got people saying you're
Speaker 2: bringing a negative energy, and in fact there's something it's
Speaker 2: like almost co venting, where you kind of bring that
Speaker 2: out in other people and it becomes this negative thing they.
Speaker 4: Go yeah yeah, and break up with your boyfriend.
Speaker 2: Hey yeah yeah. And then on the other hand, you've
Speaker 2: got this has all come from kind of a Sigmund
Speaker 2: Freud background. Of get it.
Speaker 1: Off your chest. We've all had ma get off your chest.
Speaker 2: There's catharsis in just saying it better out and then
Speaker 2: better out than it, all of those things. It's releasing
Speaker 2: an internal pressure cooker where we hear that this is
Speaker 2: meant to be good for us. So the question is
Speaker 2: should friendship be a haven from mess or a safe
Speaker 2: space for it? Should friends support or avoid burdening one another?
Speaker 2: And what actually do your friends owe you?
Speaker 4: Am I love venting. I love venting so much. If
Speaker 4: I have a dinner with friends, I'm like so excited.
Speaker 4: Sometimes I write dot points all the things I want
Speaker 4: to hit because I don't want to miss out. Because
Speaker 4: there's also certain friendships like you can vent for certain
Speaker 4: things about Like if I want to vent about my
Speaker 4: friend's boyfriend, I can't vent about it to her. I
Speaker 4: have to vent about it to some other people. If
Speaker 4: I'm being strategic about work, I can't vent to you guys,
Speaker 4: I have to vent to my other friends. I think
Speaker 4: it's such a nice outlet. And also too many rules
Speaker 4: on friendships. I'm getting really really confused now because now
Speaker 4: I can't talk about my dating life because I don't
Speaker 4: pass the Bechdel test. That's true, and then I can't
Speaker 4: talk about work because I'm centering my work too much.
Speaker 4: And now I'm scared that we're all just going to
Speaker 4: end up having friendships like men.
Speaker 2: So true, that's the saddest story.
Speaker 3: And that's true because if you're never allowed to say
Speaker 3: anything real, even if you know you're being silly, you know,
Speaker 3: then what do you talk about?
Speaker 1: Exactly?
Speaker 3: Like I can only I mean, actually I would talk
Speaker 3: about Brooklyn, assuming that not everybody wants to the only.
Speaker 2: Reason we can talk about Brooklyn Beckham it's because the
Speaker 2: man had the guts to vents.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, invented? Did he have a vent?
Speaker 3: The thing is, I think, what are we going to
Speaker 3: talk about? And you're right, we would go where the
Speaker 3: men go, which is we talk about sport, we talk
Speaker 3: about and I hate, like, let's talk about real estate
Speaker 3: schools and I want to talk about real things and
Speaker 3: that often involve some inventing. However, don't tell me that
Speaker 3: you have never had a friend who over vents all
Speaker 3: the time.
Speaker 2: Come on, okay, so there are rules, and I agree
Speaker 2: with you, Holly, I reckon, there's nothing worse. And asking
Speaker 2: how someone's going and they're like, work's great, this is great,
Speaker 2: this is great, and it's like, maybe it is, but
Speaker 2: I don't really believe, like, yeah, I'm trying to find
Speaker 2: a crack, Like that's where the interesting.
Speaker 3: So you're trying to find a crack or a way in.
Speaker 2: A way in a way in where there's some vulnerability.
Speaker 2: I believe that that's where connection is found. But I
Speaker 2: agree with you. So the rules of venting are we
Speaker 2: need character development, we need new plot points. What I
Speaker 2: don't like is rumination. So the circular venting. So I
Speaker 2: had a friend the other night who kept apologizing for venting,
Speaker 2: and we all went, no, no, no, we're actually quite
Speaker 2: enjoying this. Your work venting is interesting to us. We're
Speaker 2: not emotionally invested in the loss is a minor character
Speaker 2: in my life exactly, And I'm enjoying all of this information. Right,
Speaker 2: this is a great Netflix show. I'll watch episode two.
Speaker 2: But what I don't want is to then have you know,
Speaker 2: ten instances where it's exactly the same point and you
Speaker 2: kind kind of go, oh, oh, we've had this conversation.
Speaker 2: I'm fine for the complaining about work to continue, but
Speaker 2: it's like you want some agency or some change otherwise,
Speaker 2: I think it just feels repetitive.
Speaker 1: And boring, right, yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 3: My other thing is is that I think because personally, like,
Speaker 3: there are people in my life I vent to but
Speaker 3: I'm quite tight about that, and I think they call
Speaker 3: this repression. If there's things that are really upsetting me,
Speaker 3: I don't want to talk about it person So they'll
Speaker 3: be like, how's how are your parents doing whatever.
Speaker 1: I'll be like, I don't want to talk about it,
Speaker 1: and that's I don't. I really don't.
Speaker 3: But I think that venting, if you have like a like,
Speaker 3: you can almost put parameters around it, so you go,
Speaker 3: I'm venting. I have to trust my circle to know
Speaker 3: that everything I say in this vent isn't necessarily true.
Speaker 2: It's actually not indicative of how I feel in one
Speaker 2: hour exactly, and.
Speaker 3: I may do not hold this vent against me next
Speaker 3: week when I say that the you know that my
Speaker 3: colleague Jesse is the loveliest person in the world, and
Speaker 3: they go, but last week you said she was a bitch,
Speaker 3: and I'll be like, I was, So I think he
Speaker 3: needs some signals there, and I never do that. You
Speaker 3: need some signals there where you're like, we're entering vent
Speaker 3: valley will come out the other side. But while we're
Speaker 3: in here safe space.
Speaker 2: I had an incidence recently where I was at Christmas
Speaker 2: drinks and you know, everyone's happy and blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: And I got there and I started talking to a
Speaker 2: friend who I really like, and she was like, how
Speaker 2: are you going? And in that moment, I went, all right,
Speaker 2: you got two choices. You either go I'm going really
Speaker 2: well hanging or bless or tell her I'm actually in
Speaker 2: a lot of paint, like I'm in a lot of pain.
Speaker 2: I just walked up a hill anyway, and I just
Speaker 2: went for the second option. I just thought, fuck it,
Speaker 2: I'm going to do it. It's just her and I here,
Speaker 2: I reckon. I'm a good enough reader to know if
Speaker 2: she's finding this conversation boring. She then started telling me
Speaker 2: about this chronic pain condition she had I had no
Speaker 2: idea about, and it ended up in her venting like
Speaker 2: her going, oh my goodness, I am like, I feel
Speaker 2: as though my body's falling apart. I feel as though
Speaker 2: I have no control blah blah blah. And it was
Speaker 2: one of the most insightful, fruitful conversations I had over
Speaker 2: the whole break where she helped me put words around
Speaker 2: how I was feeling. I felt deeply connected to her.
Speaker 2: She clearly felt like she couldn't sit and you just
Speaker 2: don't know what's happening for other people, and opening that
Speaker 2: crack up a little bit meant that we could be
Speaker 2: honest and access this other level of intimacy and vulnerability
Speaker 2: that I think would have been missing otherwise.
Speaker 4: But do you also think by talking about like stuff
Speaker 4: as deep as that, you're also opening the door for
Speaker 4: them to also help.
Speaker 1: You if yeah, so yeah?
Speaker 4: Because I feel like when you have those kind of conversations,
Speaker 4: then you go home and then they might send you
Speaker 4: a link to a physio yeah, or something like that.
Speaker 4: I think the venting that get frustrated by is if
Speaker 4: it's like the same problem happening over and over again,
Speaker 4: and that person's not doing anything to help them. And
Speaker 4: I remember I had a friend who was venting about
Speaker 4: work like so much like every time we hung out
Speaker 4: so much. She wasn't doing anything. It was just like
Speaker 4: an outlet that she needed. It got to the point
Speaker 4: where I would dread seeing her like because I knew
Speaker 4: it would be a drain. And then one day I
Speaker 4: think I just sent her a link to a new job,
Speaker 4: and then I think it made her realize, oh, I've
Speaker 4: been talking about this. I think she didn't realize how
Speaker 4: much this she was centering this in a life until
Speaker 4: she saw her friend, and then she realized. And then
Speaker 4: she got a new job. And it's so much better.
Speaker 2: Because that's what you need from your friendships, right is
Speaker 2: I reckon that when you're stuck in that cycle, your
Speaker 2: frontal lobe or something actually shuts down and you're not
Speaker 2: reasonable like I had.
Speaker 4: And also because you feel like you're in a safe space,
Speaker 4: which you should feel.
Speaker 2: That, and a friend can say to you. I had
Speaker 2: this over the break. I knew I was irrationally angry
Speaker 2: about something, and I was venting to very specific people
Speaker 2: about this thing that I was angry about. And those
Speaker 2: three people had the exact same advice for me, Like
Speaker 2: they told me exactly what they were like, I totally
Speaker 2: understand how you feel. I think probably you don't say
Speaker 2: anything because they they were using a part of their
Speaker 2: brain that was actually useful in that situation. I took
Speaker 2: their advice. They were right. I moved through it. But
Speaker 2: those vents, I think made me feel like I didn't
Speaker 2: have to go and then take it out on this
Speaker 2: person who actually ultimately didn't deserve it.
Speaker 4: There is a new way women are hanging out with
Speaker 4: their friends spenting. It's not venting unfortunate.
Speaker 1: Event nights, vent sill out.
Speaker 4: They're called admin nights.
Speaker 1: I'd rather die ANTI. That sounds terrible.
Speaker 2: For someone who has to do their taxes once a year,
Speaker 2: You're like, every weekend, it's just doing my taxi And
Speaker 2: it's like, is it every weekend?
Speaker 1: Most people to like you also don't run.
Speaker 2: A small business like you're employed. Why are taxes taking
Speaker 2: up your whole year?
Speaker 1: Please tell us about these few kinds of nights.
Speaker 4: I'm like, how do I relate to the women today?
Speaker 2: Do do taxes?
Speaker 3: Eihlighters running to tell us about tell us about these
Speaker 3: new kinds of friends?
Speaker 4: Okay, ad midnight. So all the stuff that you've been
Speaker 4: putting off, like your taxes, I have a very long list.
Speaker 4: What you do is is you get your friends together
Speaker 4: at someone's house once a month. They bring their laptops,
Speaker 4: they bring their notepads, they bring their emotional support water bottle,
Speaker 4: and you just sit down together and you do those tasks.
Speaker 1: So, whether it's.
Speaker 4: Booking appointments, making appointments.
Speaker 1: What else to be Well, I'll tell you mathematics.
Speaker 3: Maybe I had been listed at the moment taxes, but
Speaker 3: also I've got complicated passport renewals going on, I've got
Speaker 3: car service I need to book. I've got medical appointments
Speaker 3: for things I would still rather go to prison.
Speaker 1: You're not doing those things. You don't do it in
Speaker 1: front of ourself. My friends are doing ad midnight.
Speaker 2: That's what we need. Maybe we need to be imprisoned
Speaker 2: to get all of these things done, because then we
Speaker 2: don't feel like we're messing out on anything. My one
Speaker 2: is claims question mark, like I need to claim.
Speaker 4: But that comes on axes, medicare, Like there's lots of things,
Speaker 4: or like.
Speaker 2: Behave bill, or like get to bottom of email, which
Speaker 2: will never ever happen, like a bunch of just born.
Speaker 2: I like the idea of doing it around people because.
Speaker 4: Then if you have questions for people to ask, Yeah,
Speaker 4: judge me.
Speaker 1: For the first.
Speaker 3: Weren't you talking about renewing that passport last year?
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, it.
Speaker 2: Does feel good. Though I had to renew my license recently,
Speaker 2: and I think it had been ten years.
Speaker 1: I needed a new photo, so.
Speaker 2: I was like this is an insurmountable task I can
Speaker 2: never achieve. Like, I don't see how problem this fits
Speaker 2: into my life. Like all I did was talk about
Speaker 2: how I can't where do I go where?
Speaker 1: And also I look the same. I look the same.
Speaker 2: It's fine and anyway.
Speaker 3: I haven't seen in the twenty sixteen train, I look
Speaker 3: exactly exactly the same.
Speaker 2: I didn't book anything, because booking things that's an admin thing.
Speaker 1: I reckon.
Speaker 2: It took me from my work to go and get
Speaker 2: my license renewed and I test picture. I reckon. It
Speaker 2: took me a total of about twenty two minutes to
Speaker 2: do the entire thing that I had complained about, and
Speaker 2: then I needed to call my mum on the way
Speaker 2: home to let her know. She's so proud that I
Speaker 2: was like, I just want to go. That would worry
Speaker 2: about it on my list until I got pulled over
Speaker 2: and someone said, mate, your license is six months out
Speaker 2: of Okay, who is this child?
Speaker 1: I like her side park.
Speaker 4: It is Friday's so we want to help set up
Speaker 4: your weekend with our very best recommendations, including a super
Speaker 4: old school one for me, vibes, ideas, atmosphere, casual, something fun.
Speaker 4: This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 3: It's Friday, which means it's recommendations.
Speaker 1: I'm going in.
Speaker 3: I'm going in because I hear a rivalry.
Speaker 1: It's not obviously that. Sorry, everybody, everybody is right about that.
Speaker 1: I resisted.
Speaker 2: Did you watch it on your own? Because I'm trying
Speaker 2: to get Luca to watch with me.
Speaker 3: I think I've misunderstood it's a solo pursuit and what
Speaker 3: it became for me. I was like, I'm not watching it.
Speaker 3: I'm not watching it. And then I was like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I gotta watch it because I was going to talk
Speaker 3: to me.
Speaker 1: And I'm about it. Then I was like, oh, all
Speaker 1: I want to do is watch it. So it became
Speaker 1: my treat watch.
Speaker 3: So I gotta said amount of words done, all my
Speaker 3: work done, didn't renew my past.
Speaker 1: I could watch an episode.
Speaker 3: It is as good as they say. That's all I'm
Speaker 3: gonna say about that. Because you've already recorded it, EMM,
Speaker 3: you were early to this trend. What I'm actually recoing
Speaker 3: is something very very very different to heated rivalry, and
Speaker 3: very different from those Netflix shows we were just talking about,
Speaker 3: which is Hamnet, which is an Oscar favorite.
Speaker 1: You've probably heard about it. It's a movie.
Speaker 3: It's in the movie theaters and I went to see
Speaker 3: it on Saturday night and it is one of those
Speaker 3: films two things.
Speaker 1: If you don't know.
Speaker 3: Hamner is based on a book that Maggie O'Farrell, who
Speaker 3: is one of my favorite writers. She's an amazing writer
Speaker 3: wrote in twenty twenty and it became a smash.
Speaker 2: You recommended it and I recommended it at the time.
Speaker 1: Is it a truth story?
Speaker 3: So what it is is the thing is, if Mea
Speaker 3: was here and I started telling what it was about,
Speaker 3: she would immediately go borring. But so you know, stay
Speaker 3: with me, friends. It's a reimagining of Shakespeare's wife, So
Speaker 3: basically Anne Hathaway, anne Hathaway, not that Anne Hathaway who
Speaker 3: suffered her own slings and arrows, that rageous fortune, but
Speaker 3: not her. So popular wisdom goes that Shakespeare was married.
Speaker 3: He married this woman in Stratford, which is where he's from,
Speaker 3: which is kind of in the middlands of England, before
Speaker 3: he became famous, before he became a big deal, And
Speaker 3: the popular wisdom kind of goes, she trapped him by
Speaker 3: having a baby and he had to marry her, and
Speaker 3: she was kind of dumb and illiterate, and then he
Speaker 3: went off to London and became this big, shiny star
Speaker 3: and he was always kind of like anchored to this
Speaker 3: ball and chain of Anne Hathaway. That was kind of
Speaker 3: like for a long time what the story of Shakespeare's
Speaker 3: wife was. If you watch Shakespeare in Love closely, you
Speaker 3: know that amazing rom con that Gwinnie wanted. It's even
Speaker 3: referenced in that that he has a wife somewhere, but
Speaker 3: you know, yeah, it's problem.
Speaker 1: So Maggie O'Farrell, and she wasn't the first.
Speaker 3: I think Jermaine Greer also did this, like nobody really
Speaker 3: knows what was going on there, but reimagined the story
Speaker 3: that Anne Hathaway, who in her book is called Agnes.
Speaker 3: Actually it's a real love match. Like she's a really
Speaker 3: interesting woman. She's a bit of a witchy, natury, witchy woman.
Speaker 3: It was a real love match and they were very
Speaker 3: passionate about each other and their family. But she really
Speaker 3: understood his ambition and he had this controlling father, so
Speaker 3: she was like, you go off to London and do
Speaker 3: your thing and send for us one day and then
Speaker 3: didn't happen. But anyway, Hamnah is kind of about that.
Speaker 3: But the reason everybody will say it's devastating, it's all
Speaker 3: those things is because and I don't think this is
Speaker 3: a spoiler, because it is. The whole premise of the
Speaker 3: book is that they have a son who dies. And
Speaker 3: this movie is so beautifully made. It's directed by a
Speaker 3: woman called Chloe Joo. She made No Madland, which was
Speaker 3: that sort of very beautiful, ponderous movie where Francis McDorman
Speaker 3: is working in the Amazon factory and travels around blah
Speaker 3: blah blah. Award for that, yeah, and then she went
Speaker 3: Marvels and did the Eternals with Angelina Jolie. But this
Speaker 3: is kind of a bit of a return to more
Speaker 3: of the award bait stuff. It stars Paul Muscal and
Speaker 3: Jesse Buckley, who I didn't really know about, but she
Speaker 3: won the Golden Globe. This is her film. She is
Speaker 3: in every scene. It is absolutely extraordinary and it's such
Speaker 3: a beautiful film, and it's one of those films that
Speaker 3: by the end you're like, every bit of you is like, well,
Speaker 3: for a start, you're devastated. So don't go and see
Speaker 3: this if you're feeling really fred, if you're suffering with grief,
Speaker 3: unless you really need a.
Speaker 1: Big sob I was sobbing.
Speaker 3: I think the lights came up and Brent was like,
Speaker 3: I think he thought something really bad.
Speaker 1: But it is so good. It's so beautiful, it's so beautifully.
Speaker 3: Made, it so beautifully done, and it's one of those
Speaker 3: pieces of art that just makes you feel like art
Speaker 3: has that power.
Speaker 1: You know, he just has that power.
Speaker 3: And that's actually what it's about in a way, because
Speaker 3: it comes back around to the fact that Shakespeare obviously
Speaker 3: very famously wrote a play called Hamlet.
Speaker 1: Was it about Hamlet? A bit? Anyway? Beautifully?
Speaker 3: I couldn't recommend it enough. I'm not sure if you
Speaker 3: should see it, Jesse, because she is pregnant with twins.
Speaker 3: It's not that great. There's a lot of very visceral
Speaker 3: mother stuff in this, a lot of very visceral birth stuff,
Speaker 3: a lot of very visceral stuff about losing children. Like
Speaker 3: it's not easy going, but it is so worth it.
Speaker 3: Loved it, loved it.
Speaker 1: I hope that Jesse Buckley wins.
Speaker 3: All the warnings. Oh and Joe Alwin's in it, Taylor's
Speaker 3: ress ex boyfriend, who I just feel sorry for that
Speaker 3: guy because he's just forever Taylor swift sex boyfriend right,
Speaker 3: and there he is in his Oscar Worthy movie plodding around.
Speaker 4: He's fine.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I've talked enough, but haven't it.
Speaker 2: I have a recommendation that is not as high brow
Speaker 2: because yours. It is just broadly underpants. And let me explain,
Speaker 2: you know how. My word of the year is grace,
Speaker 2: and it's just like going a bit easy on yourself,
Speaker 2: just small winds. Very biblical, just yeah, very biblical. Every
Speaker 2: time I put he you know, when you've got your
Speaker 2: underpants that like dig into your hips and at the
Speaker 2: end of the day it's uncomfortable and then you get
Speaker 2: those lines, you get those lines or like you feel.
Speaker 2: I was even at night going and I guess my
Speaker 2: hips have gotten bigger anyway. But also every time I
Speaker 2: went to get undies, I was like sifting through. So
Speaker 2: I had like seven pairs and most of them had
Speaker 2: holes in them. Anyway, I went, I think you're allowed
Speaker 2: to buy some new underpants from Kmart.
Speaker 3: Even though I think that's got to be an exception
Speaker 3: in your yes little not buying things exactly.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm getting my underpants from deep Hop. That's
Speaker 2: probably my line. So I go to Kama I got anko.
Speaker 2: I think they're bamboo blend three pack for twelve dollars.
Speaker 2: Seem free when upper size. No harm in getting undies
Speaker 2: that are upper sides.
Speaker 1: I only ever buy on these uppersides.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got to you just got everything in. And
Speaker 2: then I also went, you know what, you need more
Speaker 2: socks because so many of your socks have holes in
Speaker 2: it because my dog eats them. And now I look
Speaker 2: at my draw and it makes me think of Luca
Speaker 2: has a mantra which is kais in Have you.
Speaker 1: Ever heard of this word? No, what's that?
Speaker 2: It's a Japanese philosophy and people are going to be
Speaker 2: horrified that I'm using it in this context. But it's
Speaker 2: all about one percent improvements. So I was like, how
Speaker 2: can I make my life one percent better today? Yeah?
Speaker 2: He says kais and a lot as a passive aggressive
Speaker 2: tool to be like put the butter back in the
Speaker 2: fridge or something. But it's about marginal gains and this
Speaker 2: is like, I reckon, I feel one percent better every
Speaker 2: day because I've got my comfy underpants.
Speaker 3: Something witchy about this, Jesse, because I did exactly the
Speaker 3: same thing on the weekend. I remember a few years ago.
Speaker 3: I said on this show that one day I just
Speaker 3: threw away all my nickers, and I expected to get
Speaker 3: a lot of pushback on that because wasteful, but actually
Speaker 3: everyone was like, yes, because the thing is and I
Speaker 3: don't want to make myself sound gross or anything, but
Speaker 3: there's a certain percentage of your underwear.
Speaker 2: Is like, it doesn't make me feel good.
Speaker 3: It's got holes, it's got these shreads, it's not you know,
Speaker 3: it's just not good anymore. Like there's a lifespan, right, yes,
Speaker 3: And I would be the same rummaging run. And so
Speaker 3: I did that again just this past weekend. We were
Speaker 3: probably at different different I'm jealous, and I threw away
Speaker 3: all my yucky knickers and I bought all new exactly
Speaker 3: the same, big black cotton nickers a size.
Speaker 4: Any sexy pieces in there.
Speaker 3: Well, it's unfortunately, see single people always say this. My
Speaker 3: friend said to me, by self sexy and just for yourself,
Speaker 3: And well I might, but I was like, that's not
Speaker 3: the priority of this shop.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 3: This shop is about volume, yep, economy and just general
Speaker 3: improvements of comfort. So you and I both had a
Speaker 3: nicker purge on the weekend we did.
Speaker 2: I picked up one that I discovered was a jay
Speaker 2: string and I went, oh no, there's been.
Speaker 1: An no no, no, no, that's.
Speaker 4: Not what I want.
Speaker 3: I know what.
Speaker 2: We're a big boileg at the back.
Speaker 1: That's a different thing.
Speaker 3: Actually, I would love recommendations I should ask you for.
Speaker 3: Like when I say sexy, I don't mean sexy, but.
Speaker 1: I become fun but nice looking.
Speaker 4: I actually do have some round that might be my
Speaker 4: record next week.
Speaker 3: Because I quite want colorful, nice undies too, like brass
Speaker 3: and stuff.
Speaker 1: This is exciting project for me.
Speaker 4: I have what's your reco Okay, a bit different from
Speaker 4: both of yours. I really wanted something to binge like,
Speaker 4: I really wanted to show that's been going on for
Speaker 4: a while that a lot of people like that. I
Speaker 4: can just binge and just have on in the background
Speaker 4: so I can also look at my friend while I'm
Speaker 4: watching it. And I came across taken screen for sure.
Speaker 4: I came across Chicago Fire on Disney Plus.
Speaker 2: What's the premise?
Speaker 4: Okay, so the premier is this group of firefighters they
Speaker 4: put out fires in Chicago.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's it. That's it.
Speaker 4: That's literally it.
Speaker 1: Are they sexy five fighter? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, they
Speaker 1: have to be. Yeah.
Speaker 4: It stars Jesse Spencer, who is Australian actor. He played
Speaker 4: Chase in House Yep. It also stars Taylor Kinney. You
Speaker 4: would know him as Lady Gaga's ex fiance. It also
Speaker 4: stars Steve from Sex in the City.
Speaker 1: Oh Wow, Okay, come in.
Speaker 4: So it's one of those shows where more people would
Speaker 4: come on and be like, WHOA, I didn't know you
Speaker 4: in this.
Speaker 2: I feel like it could be a sequel to Sex
Speaker 2: in the City. But like Steve's.
Speaker 4: Second job when he's playing basketball.
Speaker 2: Off, I could see him becoming a firefighter.
Speaker 4: So hot in it, we all have like abs and
Speaker 4: they're all really hard, and they're all.
Speaker 2: Like and do they always get the fire out?
Speaker 1: Always?
Speaker 4: They always get the fire out. They're also like doing
Speaker 4: some investigations with the police.
Speaker 1: I didn't know they could do that.
Speaker 4: They're always healing people. It's just so easy to watch.
Speaker 4: It started in twenty twelve.
Speaker 1: I'm on season two. It's still goes We'll throw back. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Season is coming out later this year, so I think
Speaker 4: there's like eighteen seasons.
Speaker 1: Soless.
Speaker 3: It's so good.
Speaker 4: It feels like Criminal minds. Eh, that's fun, Big steaks.
Speaker 3: But you know what, I think there are going to
Speaker 3: be out louders who are like, welcome em cargo fire.
Speaker 4: Every time I talk to someone about this, they're like,
Speaker 4: oh my mom watches that shirt. I'm like, okay, it's soothing.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 3: If you want to know or what our recommendations are,
Speaker 3: if you've forgotten what we've said already and what they
Speaker 3: always are, they're always in the newsletter. By the way,
Speaker 3: if you need a reason to sign up to the
Speaker 3: mom Mia out Loud newsletter, which is often called Holly
Speaker 3: out Loud because I write a thing in there.
Speaker 1: It has the recommendations in it. Do that. There's a
Speaker 1: link in the show notes.
Speaker 3: That is all we have time for this week.
Speaker 1: It's been a big week.
Speaker 2: It has a big thank you to our team group
Speaker 2: executive producer Reef to Fine, executive producer Sasha Tanic.
Speaker 4: Our senior audio producer is Leah Porge's video producer is
Speaker 4: Josh Green, and our junior content producer is Tessa Kodovich.
Speaker 1: Bye Bye Bye Bye.
Speaker 3: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on
Speaker 3: which we've recorded this podcast.