Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Muma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3: I've got something else to tell you that's upsetting. Your
Speaker 3: teeth keep growing as you age. And so I look
Speaker 3: at my kid's teeth and they look like little niblets,
Speaker 3: and they gorgeous little niblets. And then I see mine
Speaker 3: and they're just long in the tooth.
Speaker 2: Long in the tooth, long in the two.
Speaker 1: My teeth is a big enough. Look at a little
Speaker 1: kids teeth and they're just little niblets. They're so cute.
Speaker 1: I'm just all teeth. My whole face is just going
Speaker 1: to be teeth.
Speaker 2: And our noses keep growing and our ears keep growing.
Speaker 2: Welcome to mummya out Loud. It's what women are actually
Speaker 2: talking about on Wednesday, the seventeenth of September.
Speaker 1: I am Jesse Stevens, I'm still Mia Friedman, and I'm Amelia.
Speaker 2: Lester and here's what's on our agenda for today.
Speaker 3: A woman was told she couldn't pump breast milk in
Speaker 3: an airport lounge, and Maya.
Speaker 1: Has an unpopular opinion.
Speaker 2: That I'm going to change.
Speaker 1: I'm going to change that a.
Speaker 2: Bit very quickly, plus some candid admission about actor Bruce
Speaker 2: Willis and why his wife, Emma Heming Willis is facing criticism.
Speaker 1: I'm bringing a little bit of a news segment today
Speaker 1: called birth, death and Marriages, and I'm going to somehow
Speaker 1: manage to shoehorn in the fact that two very famous
Speaker 1: women went to Premiers this week wearing no pants.
Speaker 3: But first, in case you missed it, Donald Trump is
Speaker 3: a dobber. The ABC journalist John Lyons asked Trump yesterday
Speaker 3: about his business dealings and why he keeps making lots
Speaker 3: of money while he's president.
Speaker 2: Was this in person?
Speaker 3: It was in person on the White House lawn. Trump
Speaker 3: was about to go on his trip to the UK.
Speaker 3: He's so excited because he gets to ride in a
Speaker 3: horse drawn carriage with King Charles and stay at Windsor Castle.
Speaker 1: God were indulging him, so he was.
Speaker 3: Not happy to be interrupted on the way to his
Speaker 3: dream trip by John Lyons. But let's have a listen
Speaker 3: to what happened.
Speaker 1: Appropriate President Trump that a president should.
Speaker 3: Be engaged in so much prester's activity.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm really not. My kids are running the business
Speaker 1: and you know what the activity?
Speaker 3: Where are you from from the Australian Broad Catholic and
Speaker 3: the Australias.
Speaker 1: You're hurting Australia right in my opinion, you are hurting
Speaker 1: Australia very much right now. But they want to get
Speaker 1: along with me.
Speaker 4: You know, you're your leader is coming over to see
Speaker 4: me very so I'm going to tell them about you.
Speaker 1: You said a very bad tale in return.
Speaker 3: Yes, that was pointing his finger at John Lyons and saying.
Speaker 1: Quiet, I'm going to try that with Jesse sometimes.
Speaker 3: The reason I love this is because it highlighted for
Speaker 3: me a cultural difference between Australia and the US. When
Speaker 3: my kids started school here last year in Australia after
Speaker 3: having moved from the US, they were immediately told not
Speaker 3: to dob dollary.
Speaker 2: Episodes about it. You cannot dob it is like the
Speaker 2: number one rule.
Speaker 3: But I just tell you that that's an Australian value,
Speaker 3: not an American one, Like kids are not taught that
Speaker 3: in the US.
Speaker 1: So when Trump says.
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell on you and I'm going to
Speaker 3: tell your Prime minister about you, that scene is a
Speaker 3: totally okay thing to do. It's it's you using the system.
Speaker 3: It's like reporting someone who's breaking the rules, Like there's
Speaker 3: no value in America saying you really job.
Speaker 1: What joh Online should have said is don't be a dibbadubber.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he should have because there's a lot of stigma
Speaker 2: here about dobbing. It comes up in loner's books all
Speaker 2: the time. We don't dB unless someone is facing an
Speaker 2: issue with their safety.
Speaker 1: I don't know that.
Speaker 2: Don't tell.
Speaker 1: Also bullying and stuff. We do a courage kids to
Speaker 1: speak up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, true, but generally speaking, I remember at school it
Speaker 2: was like the kid who is a dibber dubber was
Speaker 2: just not with the in crowd.
Speaker 1: The way to dip adob is to set up a
Speaker 1: fake Gmail couch what and then dip adob anonymously.
Speaker 2: Is that what you've been doing with your time off?
Speaker 2: Maybe you've just dip adobbing to people.
Speaker 1: I have some feedback.
Speaker 2: See that person is.
Speaker 3: The main takeaway from this is that Trump's basically saying
Speaker 3: he will in fact meet with that they Albaneasi and
Speaker 3: I bet Albow is happy about that because it's been
Speaker 3: really hard for him to meet with Trump so far.
Speaker 3: Doctor Elise Turner is a GP who was returning from
Speaker 3: a conference in Perth to her Gold Coast home yesterday
Speaker 3: when she stopped off in the Virgin Australia lounge at
Speaker 3: Melbourne Airport, and she was there because she was on
Speaker 3: a stopover on the way back home, and she wanted
Speaker 3: to pump some breast milk in the Virgin lounge and
Speaker 3: a supervisor came over to her and said, you can't
Speaker 3: do that here because there are men and it will
Speaker 3: make people uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: Did she specifically say there are men or did.
Speaker 3: She According to doctor Turner, she did cite the presence
Speaker 3: of men, okay. Doctor Turner says that she explained the
Speaker 3: pump was under her shirt, that there would be no
Speaker 3: nipple showing, but she was allowed to finish pumping, which
Speaker 3: I think is a part of this story that maybe
Speaker 3: was lost in the headlines. So after she finished pumping,
Speaker 3: on her way out of the lounge, she stopped to
Speaker 3: see the supervisor and she told the supervisor that she
Speaker 3: had made her feel pretty cruddy for breast pumping.
Speaker 1: That's the exact phrase.
Speaker 3: And that's when the supervisor said, you got to leave.
Speaker 3: She put her hand on doctor Turner's arm and she said,
Speaker 3: you've got to leave. You're making me uncomfortable and here's
Speaker 3: what doctor Turner said about the experience afterwards, being.
Speaker 4: Told that I can't sit here in the Virgin Lounge
Speaker 4: as a paying business class ticket holder to express breast
Speaker 4: milk that sits under my shirt like this, because this
Speaker 4: is a private business lounge and we don't do that here.
Speaker 4: This is just disgusting that this is twenty twenty five
Speaker 4: and this is the sort of treatment that lactating mothers
Speaker 4: are expected to deal with.
Speaker 3: MAYA, Yes, I think you've got something to say about.
Speaker 1: This, Okay, So my opinion is exactly what's wrong with
Speaker 1: the world in twenty twenty five, because when I first
Speaker 1: heard about this story, I hadn't seen any pictures and
Speaker 1: I didn't know any details. I thought woman tried to
Speaker 1: pump in a lounge, was asked to maybe do it
Speaker 1: in the bathroom, She said no, do you prepare your
Speaker 1: meals in a toilet? Was asked to leave, And I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, I've breastfed three children everywhere funerals,
Speaker 1: at weddings, in public, in meetings, at airports, on planes,
Speaker 1: in front of all manner of people, and there is
Speaker 1: a difference between breastfeeding and pumping.
Speaker 2: Yeah, talk me through that. I don't know if I agree.
Speaker 1: So when you breastfeed, there's a baby's head in front
Speaker 1: of your boob, and the baby has a group on
Speaker 1: your nipple, there might be a little bit of access
Speaker 1: when you.
Speaker 2: But your second, do you think you're safe the baby
Speaker 2: starts to go and play with something and your nip's
Speaker 2: just out and your nipple has never been darker.
Speaker 1: Sometimes that happens, right, but generally it's different to when
Speaker 1: you are pumping. And if you haven't pumped before, and
Speaker 1: I've pumped a ton again, I've pumped in all different
Speaker 1: places and including bathrooms, and I agree it's horrible to
Speaker 1: have to do it in a toilet where you have
Speaker 1: to smell everybody else's pooh. That's disgusting and it's not hygienic.
Speaker 1: It's not because you've got to keep it all very stale.
Speaker 1: But when you're pumping, you actually, depending on the pump,
Speaker 1: you can often see the nipple and the milk coming out.
Speaker 1: It also makes a lot of noise. If you've got
Speaker 1: a handheld one then it can be just a bit
Speaker 1: more squelch, squelch, squelch. I didn't realize that she was
Speaker 1: under her shirt.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize the white corner.
Speaker 1: So my unpopular opinion, which is that pumping and breastfeeding
Speaker 1: in public is not the same, I kind of retract.
Speaker 2: Okay, I disagree with you that they're not the same.
Speaker 2: Another detail of this story that's getting missed, which I've
Speaker 2: become quite obsessed with, is that doctor Elise Turner isn't
Speaker 2: the mother of one new one. She's got twins. She
Speaker 2: has six month old twins.
Speaker 1: Now, oh okay, because my fact.
Speaker 2: Mother has two sets of twins. I'm obsessed with the
Speaker 2: logistics of that. My mum lasted maybe four days of
Speaker 2: breastfeeding twins is one of the hardest you need a
Speaker 2: PhD in like when it comes to supply the fact
Speaker 2: that she's got to six months breastfeeding with twins, that
Speaker 2: woman deserves an order of Australian metal.
Speaker 1: But I reckon I just accidentally keep feeding the same twin.
Speaker 2: Get that one really fat, like you need you'd need
Speaker 2: a spreadsheet or something. The thing about pumping that I
Speaker 2: didn't understand until I had to pump was that when
Speaker 2: you have to pump, you have to pump. Now you
Speaker 2: cannot do it on someone else's schedule. It's the same
Speaker 2: as breastfeeding in that way. In order to keep up supply,
Speaker 2: you need to be on a particular schedule, and you
Speaker 2: also get engaged. So I had a situation on a
Speaker 2: plane where the plane was delayed, delayed, delayed, and I
Speaker 2: could feel myself getting engaged, and I'm thinking, Mastidis is
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes away, Like I need.
Speaker 1: To relieve this.
Speaker 2: We'll get ushered onto the plane. I'm like, it's fine.
Speaker 2: Once we're off, I'll go into the bathroom and I'll
Speaker 2: pump and I sit in my seat. And ten minutes past,
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes gets to about thirty minutes, and I was
Speaker 2: like this is I'm like leaking, Like this is this
Speaker 2: is really bad.
Speaker 1: I mean it's painful, it's really painstules.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it just started feeling hot and awful, and
Speaker 2: I'm starting to get anxious, and I went, I've just
Speaker 2: got to go to the bathroom. So I took my
Speaker 2: bag and I went to go to the bathroom, and
Speaker 2: there was an announcement over the plane going basically, get
Speaker 2: in your seats. You're not allowed to stand up, like
Speaker 2: where where something was going on with the plane. You know,
Speaker 2: when you've got to have your belt on before take.
Speaker 1: Off, conturbulent.
Speaker 2: Often, No, the plane haven't left, but we've been sitting
Speaker 2: there for thirty minut So I was like, well, can
Speaker 2: I just get some clarity. I got to relieve myself anyway.
Speaker 2: I went back to my seat, full flight, two businessmen
Speaker 2: next to me.
Speaker 1: You know, six o'clock. Were you in the middle?
Speaker 2: I was in the middle. No, I have no choice
Speaker 2: right now except to pump. And I didn't have one
Speaker 2: of the really cool wearable ones. It was quite bulky.
Speaker 1: Was it electric or was it?
Speaker 2: It was electric?
Speaker 1: And it was.
Speaker 2: It was loud, but you know the ones that can
Speaker 2: hide in your brain. It wasn't that I could hide,
Speaker 2: like they couldn't see my nipples. But I sat there
Speaker 2: with tears streaming down my face, just going I don't
Speaker 2: want to do this, but like, I have no choice.
Speaker 2: And I found that even in the workplace.
Speaker 1: Did you say something to the men or did they
Speaker 1: say anything to you?
Speaker 2: No, they were actually they kind of looked looked the
Speaker 2: other way. And I remember at one stage making eye
Speaker 2: contact with a flight attendant and being like, if you
Speaker 2: say a word, I am going to riot. Like I
Speaker 2: think there's a sensitivity to that. You're incredibly because you're
Speaker 2: just going. There is so much pressure on me and
Speaker 2: Release Turner and every other woman to keep breastfeed. We
Speaker 2: are trying our very best. Pumping is the only way
Speaker 2: that most women can feasibly do it, alongside work, which
Speaker 2: we often need to get back to because of you know,
Speaker 2: two parent working households, whatever. And then when there's any
Speaker 2: shame or stigma or anything that makes you feel embarrassed
Speaker 2: about it, you get so angry.
Speaker 1: But Amelia, don't you think that doctor Turner and Jesse
Speaker 1: should have been at home with their baby? You can
Speaker 1: really why were they on planes?
Speaker 3: You can hear the emotion, can't you, in Doctor Turner's voice,
Speaker 3: And it's because six months postpardon, there's so much that's
Speaker 3: going on chemically in her body is still as well,
Speaker 3: and being away from your baby, or babies when they're
Speaker 3: still six months old, you've already got a heightened level
Speaker 3: of anxiety coursing through your veins because your body is
Speaker 3: telling you that you should not be away from the baby.
Speaker 3: And so then to have some one come up to
Speaker 3: you and make you feel embarrassed, I can see how
Speaker 3: that really sent her spiraling, and I have so much
Speaker 3: sympathy for her what's interesting about pumping is I dug
Speaker 3: into this and doctor Churner's pointed out that breastfeeding and
Speaker 3: pumping are both protected acts under the Sex Discrimination Act
Speaker 3: of nineteen eighty four, But back in nineteen eighty four,
Speaker 3: pumping was nowhere near as common as it is now,
Speaker 3: and the actual wording of that act talks about breastfeeding
Speaker 3: and expressing. Now expressing for those who don't know, is
Speaker 3: this kind of like milk made act where you have
Speaker 3: to kind of fondle your own.
Speaker 1: Breasts and the kept milk. Think of a cow never
Speaker 1: mastered it tricky.
Speaker 2: I've had to do it because the logistics of remembering
Speaker 2: all your pump parts, Like I would forget one part,
Speaker 2: I'd get to work and go, oh, I fucked, and
Speaker 2: I'd have to go into the bathroom and like a
Speaker 2: cow with a tea, really milk myself so that I
Speaker 2: didn't get massed out.
Speaker 1: I think what you said, Jess is so interesting about
Speaker 1: the shame from both ends, because as a mother, Avenue born,
Speaker 1: and you know, those first few months particularly, there's so
Speaker 1: much pressure to breastfeed, often when it's not the right
Speaker 1: thing for your baby, and it's not the right thing
Speaker 1: for you. So you already feel ashamed if you can't
Speaker 1: do it right, if your baby's not putting on weight,
Speaker 1: if you don't like it, you know, if you stop
Speaker 1: too early or you supplement before, if your baby doesn't
Speaker 1: like it, by the way, like this, but to then
Speaker 1: get shamed by the other side as well. Now I'm
Speaker 1: remembering I used to breastfeed quite aggressively in public, particularly
Speaker 1: with babies two and three, because I think I was
Speaker 1: a little bit bored and I was just like, come
Speaker 1: at me. I was like waiting for someone to say something,
Speaker 1: so I'd like do it everywhere. No one ever said anything.
Speaker 1: I was a bit disappointed.
Speaker 3: There's also some cultural norms run it in different places,
Speaker 3: Like I lived in Japan with a newborn, and it's
Speaker 3: just a fact that you would not breastfeed in public there,
Speaker 3: like we just it is not accepted.
Speaker 1: It's breastfeeding culturally expected well here and encouraged.
Speaker 3: It is culturally accepted and encouraged, but unlike in the West,
Speaker 3: they've actually decided to allow for women to do it
Speaker 3: in nice spaces. So while you cannot breastfeed in public,
Speaker 3: they make sure that, for instance, if you go to
Speaker 3: the shopping mall, there is a literal lounge in every
Speaker 3: shopping mall for breastfeeding mothers to just lounge around with
Speaker 3: their babies in this safe, clean place.
Speaker 1: There's a place for hot water. It's totally nice. In Australia,
Speaker 1: have too.
Speaker 2: I actually kind of prefer that I've been out with
Speaker 2: friends at the pub, at a restaurant, at a concert
Speaker 2: and they've been pumping.
Speaker 1: My sister might have pumped a Tailors concert.
Speaker 2: She absolutely did.
Speaker 1: I think Taylor would approve of that.
Speaker 2: Another interesting detail about this was that I read somewhere
Speaker 2: that she was then encouraged to go into one of
Speaker 2: the private rooms, but you had to pay no.
Speaker 3: So she asked before she started pumping, Hey do you
Speaker 3: have a space for me to do this? And they
Speaker 3: said that you've got two options. You can hire a
Speaker 3: boardroom for one hundred dollars, or you can use the bathroom.
Speaker 3: And what I was going to say about the Japan
Speaker 3: example is if you're not comfortable with women breastfeeding and
Speaker 3: pumping in public, you have to be able to provide
Speaker 3: a space for them to do it, because, as you
Speaker 3: point out, Jess, it is kind of a physical act
Speaker 3: that can lead to harm if it's not done. And
Speaker 3: so that's where I think is the trip up here.
Speaker 3: You can't have it both ways. You can't say don't
Speaker 3: do it in public, but then we're not giving you
Speaker 3: a space.
Speaker 1: Please stop telling women to do it in toilets. Have
Speaker 1: you ever hung out in a toilet? It's true? Would
Speaker 1: you like to prepare a meal in a toilet?
Speaker 2: The issue with the toilet too. I pumped in a
Speaker 2: plane cubicle once during turbulence, and everything I pumped went
Speaker 2: all over the walls, like it just wasn't logistically possible.
Speaker 1: But you need a lot of milk, probably the.
Speaker 2: Same flight I probably went on one fly and it's
Speaker 2: just always. But you need a table like you have
Speaker 2: because the one that I had, and this is then
Speaker 2: it's like if you have the one that you tuck
Speaker 2: into your bra, they're like, you know, that's not very
Speaker 2: good for supply, so you should really get the one
Speaker 2: that's got forty five pieces and costs you eight hundred
Speaker 2: dollars and you're just like, oh okay. And I had
Speaker 2: like bottles that went onto a thing that I had
Speaker 2: a special bra. I had to put on all of
Speaker 2: that to do it, like am I meant to do
Speaker 2: it on the toilet see with my sterilized look.
Speaker 1: I think the planes are slightly different because you can't
Speaker 1: have a dedicated breastfeeding room on every plane, like you
Speaker 1: also have to say you can't have a dedicated breastfeeding
Speaker 1: room in every workplace permanently. As an employer, I do
Speaker 1: believe you might be legally.
Speaker 2: Required to that's not a bathroom.
Speaker 1: That's not a bathroom.
Speaker 2: But and you've got to let me put it in
Speaker 2: the fridge.
Speaker 1: When I was at Channel nine and I used to breastfeed,
Speaker 1: literally it was a whole lot of beers and my
Speaker 1: breast and that said everything you needed to know about that.
Speaker 3: But is meant to stimulate breast milk, right, old wives tale.
Speaker 3: But I was going to say, for people who were
Speaker 3: not familiar with breast pumps, they do look weird. I
Speaker 3: do want to put that out there, and there's something
Speaker 3: a little bit confronting about them, because I remember when
Speaker 3: Rachel McAdams there was a photo of taken of her
Speaker 3: on a film set looking impossibly glamorous and beautiful because
Speaker 3: she's Rachel McAdams and she had her too. I think
Speaker 3: it was the cover of a magazine and she had
Speaker 3: she's the one that looked breastmats does strikingly.
Speaker 2: That's the one that I had a very similar breast paper.
Speaker 3: She had like two breast pumps with the bottom on
Speaker 3: each nipple. And you've got to say that there's some
Speaker 3: part about it that looks like in the same way
Speaker 3: that a polate's reformer matt looks a little bit like
Speaker 3: a kind of fetish device. There's something about pumping that's
Speaker 3: a I can see how aesthetically it's confronting to people
Speaker 3: who are not familiar with the equipment.
Speaker 1: Let's put it that.
Speaker 2: I think it's athetically confronting to the person using it
Speaker 2: and to the baby. I hate it. But did you
Speaker 2: always a pump?
Speaker 1: Did you, guys ever pump in front of anybody like
Speaker 1: that you knew, like just in your house, like you
Speaker 1: were always quite private, even with breastfeeding, you would often
Speaker 1: go into another room. Jesse. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think people expect that just because you've had a baby,
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, you have no modesty. And I
Speaker 2: never ever found it comfortable to sit in a cafe
Speaker 2: and I was like, I don't want to be stared at.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you have to do it. I think that's why
Speaker 2: there's a sensitivity too, is that it's like I'd prefer
Speaker 2: not to, but I'm doing my best.
Speaker 3: The hard thing about pumping, too is with breast feeding,
Speaker 3: there's a sort of like unspoken relationship which is communicated
Speaker 3: through smell and behavior and between the parent and the
Speaker 3: child about when the breastfeeding is going to occur, and
Speaker 3: there's some way that you can communicate with that baby
Speaker 3: where you're like not now essentially, But the problem when
Speaker 3: you're away from the baby is those cues are gone.
Speaker 3: And so when you need to pump, you need to pump, yeah, and.
Speaker 2: The milk comes out and they can see the milk
Speaker 2: and I don't know about you guys, but might have
Speaker 2: like a blue eytinge yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: And also it comes out like a sprinkler, yeah, which
Speaker 1: most people don't know. But I remember very distinctly the
Speaker 1: first time I pumped in front of my brother in
Speaker 1: law and because I needed to pump and he was
Speaker 1: over and I was like, is this where I didn't care?
Speaker 1: He was cool with it. I don't know if i'd
Speaker 1: do it like in front of my dad. I just
Speaker 1: sort of didn't care as long as it was my
Speaker 1: decision and no one was looking like leering it.
Speaker 3: But that's an interesting question because now that I think
Speaker 3: about it, breastfeeding I was fine doing in front of people.
Speaker 3: Pumping I was not fine doing in front of people.
Speaker 1: Definitely feels more intimate.
Speaker 2: Weirdly, I think if you want to do it privately,
Speaker 2: the idea I used to go and hide in a
Speaker 2: video studio and do it at work, which I always
Speaker 2: And the irony is I probably if pumping wasn't such
Speaker 2: a terrible experience in terms of you're sitting in a
Speaker 2: meeting that's running fifteen minutes over and you're going I
Speaker 2: really got to run and pump, and then the breastfeeding
Speaker 2: journey probably would have been longer. But for a lot
Speaker 2: of people, they just go, this is far too hard.
Speaker 2: But I love the idea some A friend of mine
Speaker 2: recently went to a doctor's appointment and the doctor was
Speaker 2: sitting there with a pump on during the appointment, and
Speaker 2: I was like, I kind of love that.
Speaker 3: That's better than when I went to the doctor once
Speaker 3: for a perhap smear and she finished up her curry
Speaker 3: before the perapsner began. Look, doctor Channer, I just want
Speaker 3: to say, well done. I think having twins and breastfeedings
Speaker 3: done really hard.
Speaker 2: We salute you in a moment Emma Heming Willis and
Speaker 2: the impossible decisions facing caregivers. When Emma Heming Willis says
Speaker 2: it's not up for debate, It's not up for effing debate.
Speaker 2: Those words were published on Laney Gossip last week in
Speaker 2: regards to a choice made by forty seven year old
Speaker 2: Emma Heming Willis, who is the wife of seventy year
Speaker 2: old Bruce Willis, who is living with a devastating condition
Speaker 2: called fronto temporal dementia. The reason you might be hearing
Speaker 2: a lot about the Willis family at the moment is
Speaker 2: because Emma has written a book. It is called The
Speaker 2: Unexpected Journey, Finding Strength, Hope and Yourself on the Caregiving Path,
Speaker 2: and it's all about Bruce Willis's diagnosis and illness. Last month,
Speaker 2: Emma also shared that Bruce is now in his own
Speaker 2: home with twenty four hour care. Emma and Bruce Willis
Speaker 2: shared two children, they're eleven and thirteen, and she has
Speaker 2: been open about how Bruce would want them to be
Speaker 2: in their own environment that's suited to them and their needs,
Speaker 2: where they can be noisy and be adolescents.
Speaker 1: And this all sounds very sensible.
Speaker 2: Yes, and Bruce needs his own environment at the moment
Speaker 2: because of his particular set of needs. Now, since that admission,
Speaker 2: Emma says she's received just this onslaught of online criticism
Speaker 2: from strangers, just saying I cannot believe that you've put
Speaker 2: him in care like that. Basically it's your job to
Speaker 2: look after him. She said she anticipated that when sharing
Speaker 2: her story, and in an interview with Diane Sawyer, she said,
Speaker 2: I feel like caregivers are so judged. You have to
Speaker 2: do what is right for your family and what is
Speaker 2: going to keep your loved ones safe as well as
Speaker 2: your young children.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought this was so interesting, and I think
Speaker 1: that the reason for the backlash. I mean there's a
Speaker 1: backlash to everything in these days, because had she said
Speaker 1: we're putting him into full time care, into a home
Speaker 1: because we can't meet his needs anymore, no one would
Speaker 1: have said anything.
Speaker 2: What do you think it was about the language that.
Speaker 1: It's that they're rich. I think the people who would
Speaker 1: have been angry are the people who were like, well,
Speaker 1: that'd be nice, that'd be nice to have two houses.
Speaker 1: I feel too guilty to put my person that I
Speaker 1: have to care for into a home or I can't
Speaker 1: afford to because full time care out of the home
Speaker 1: is too expensive or too heart wrenching. Must be nice, right,
Speaker 1: I think that's what it is, and I think it
Speaker 1: comes from a place I think some people are just
Speaker 1: judgmental dickheads, but we don't care about those. I think
Speaker 1: that there would have been a real sense of pain
Speaker 1: and envy. Yeah, I hope they can afford that.
Speaker 2: I wondered if the strangers and the anger, if that
Speaker 2: was coming from people who had never been in that
Speaker 2: situation before and couldn't imagine what it was like and
Speaker 2: maybe identifying. So there was a report that came out
Speaker 2: a few days ago that said dementia is the number
Speaker 2: one killer for people in Australia. It is everywhere. If
Speaker 2: you are not currently caring for someone with dementia, it
Speaker 2: is likely going to come.
Speaker 1: Wow, that must have overtaken heart disease just.
Speaker 2: In the last couple of days. And so I think
Speaker 2: when we hear stories like this, we either identify really
Speaker 2: strongly with the person with dementia, which is reasonable given
Speaker 2: the rates, or we go I'm also going to be
Speaker 2: someone probably looking after someone with dementia, right, and so
Speaker 2: if you identify with that camp, you probably have a
Speaker 2: bit more empathy for what that does to a life,
Speaker 2: how many years it takes up. And also Emma has
Speaker 2: done such a service to the subject of dementia because
Speaker 2: she's talking about all the different kinds and this is
Speaker 2: a really specific type of dementia where symptoms include a
Speaker 2: lack of empathy, his personality changed.
Speaker 1: You can become violent, you can become unpredictable, you can
Speaker 1: be unsafe in your own home, like maybe the home
Speaker 1: that they were in just wasn't suitable, maybe there was
Speaker 1: a pool that didn't have a fence, like you just
Speaker 1: don't know. And also, poor Emma, to me, this also
Speaker 1: speaks of the impossible pressure and expectations we have of caregivers.
Speaker 1: She's got two little girls on one hand, who are
Speaker 1: eleven and thirteen. It's not like Bruce's adult children, who
Speaker 1: many of whom have children of their own. And then
Speaker 1: she's got her husband who is only seventy and she's
Speaker 1: a fair bit younger than him, And one of her
Speaker 1: biggest supporters is actually Demi. More because there are sort
Speaker 1: of still a blended family and Demi and her girls
Speaker 1: that she shares with Bruce Willison all very close, and
Speaker 1: they've all lined up behind her and said, nobody understands,
Speaker 1: and Bruce wouldn't want that burden on his young daughters.
Speaker 2: What do you think about the admission, Amelia, Because she
Speaker 2: didn't have to tell us any of this. She could
Speaker 2: have just gone, I'm going to make my private decisions
Speaker 2: with Bruce. Probably didn't even need to tell us about
Speaker 2: the diagnosis, right, And once you put anything on the
Speaker 2: public record, once you write a book and you're doing interviews.
Speaker 1: No, she had to because he's a public figure, and
Speaker 1: he had a big career, and he was still making
Speaker 1: movies towards the end, and they were trying to get
Speaker 1: around it by having ear pieces in his ears where
Speaker 1: someone would feed in the lines, and so it was
Speaker 1: quite well known in Hollywood that something was up.
Speaker 3: I think you raised a really interesting point before, Jesse,
Speaker 3: when you talked about how there are the people who
Speaker 3: maybe identify with the caregiver here, and there are people
Speaker 3: who identify with Bruce who has dementia. The problem with
Speaker 3: identifying with Bruce here and saying, well, Bruce, how can
Speaker 3: Bruce enjoy living in this house without his children? Is
Speaker 3: that thinking about how to treat dementia and how to
Speaker 3: respond to people with dementia is changing. Even now, even
Speaker 3: how widespread it is, there's still a lot of different
Speaker 3: schools of thought in terms of how people should respond
Speaker 3: to dementia. I read a really interesting article in The
Speaker 3: New Yorker from a few years ago called The Comforting
Speaker 3: Fictions of Dementia Care, and it talked about how fifty
Speaker 3: years ago, when someone with dementia would say where's my
Speaker 3: husband or wife? The appropriate response, it was thought, was
Speaker 3: to be completely honest with them and say they've died.
Speaker 3: And if that meant saying your husband or wife has
Speaker 3: died fifty times a day, then that that was the
Speaker 3: medically appropriate thing to do. Well in the years since,
Speaker 3: there's now been a new school of thought that says,
Speaker 3: we don't need to be constantly giving these uncomfortable and
Speaker 3: hard truths to these people.
Speaker 1: They've lost that person again and again and again.
Speaker 3: There's a whole new school of thought that says that
Speaker 3: comforting fictions like saying to them, Oh, they must have
Speaker 3: just gone to the shops, is an absolutely fine thing
Speaker 3: to do. Now.
Speaker 1: Again, that's just one school. Is that what you've discovered, Jesse,
Speaker 1: that's really interesting.
Speaker 2: You say that my grandfather is in an age care
Speaker 2: a brilliant age care facility with dementia, and your impulse
Speaker 2: is to try and keep their connection to reality strong.
Speaker 2: So he starts talking about how his mother was just
Speaker 2: in the room and his wife and he's still looking
Speaker 2: after Simon, his grandson, and we would go, no, Simon
Speaker 2: lives over here now, like that was our instinct, right,
Speaker 2: And then we did all of this research and it
Speaker 2: was basically like, how confusing. Imagine if you said I'm
Speaker 2: going on to see my kids and I was like,
Speaker 2: you don't have, Like that would be so destabilizing all
Speaker 2: the time. It actually doesn't help. What's been lovely with
Speaker 2: my pop, which is not everyone's experience, is that emotionally
Speaker 2: he's okay, Like he's fine. If he thinks that Simon
Speaker 2: just went up to the shop, then that's absolutely fine.
Speaker 2: We don't have to kind of confront him with reality
Speaker 2: all the time.
Speaker 3: The issue is that for caregivers who've made this realization,
Speaker 3: it can lead to something called deception guilt.
Speaker 1: This is a real if caregivers.
Speaker 3: Are constantly lying, and we've been taught from a very
Speaker 3: early age that lying is a sign of disrespect, You're
Speaker 3: not treating the person with respectety and dignity. It leads
Speaker 3: to this feeling, am I doing something wrong? Even if
Speaker 3: medical professionals are telling you that that's the accepted path.
Speaker 3: And so that's a really hard thing for Emma to
Speaker 3: have to deal with that she's being told no, it's
Speaker 3: fine to lie. In fact, that's probably medically advisable. That's
Speaker 3: going to weigh on her over time. And that's why
Speaker 3: a lot of caregivers apparently speak about this idea that
Speaker 3: they're no longer caring for their wife or their husband,
Speaker 3: They've become a nurse, and that feeling of I'm no
Speaker 3: longer in that relationship.
Speaker 1: I'm a nurse.
Speaker 3: I'm someone who's lying to this person all the time
Speaker 3: because that's what I've been told to do.
Speaker 1: I mean, who is anyone to judge that.
Speaker 2: I think that what that spakes you as well is
Speaker 2: that we just do not understand enough about the subjectivity
Speaker 2: of the person living with the illness. We cannot understand
Speaker 2: because they can't really tell us in the early stages. Yes,
Speaker 2: but even reading what Emma has written about Bruce is
Speaker 2: like when they went to the doctor to get that diagnosis.
Speaker 2: It was like she was the only one in the room.
Speaker 2: He didn't even acknowledge the diagnosis. So it's not like
Speaker 2: you've got someone that you can discuss it with or
Speaker 2: go what do we do next? You don't know what
Speaker 2: that person wants and what they're thinking, and what their
Speaker 2: needs and desires are because they've evolved so much.
Speaker 3: And that's why there's such a vigorous debate amongst the
Speaker 3: experts about how to treat them and what the best
Speaker 3: thing to say is, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: After the break, there's a birth, a death, and a marriage.
Speaker 1: Do you want daily outloud access? Why wouldn't you? We
Speaker 1: dropped episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Muma MEA subscribers.
Speaker 1: Follow the link in the show notes to get us
Speaker 1: in your ears five days a week and a huge
Speaker 1: thank you. If you're already a subscriber. You might have
Speaker 1: heard on the new Is that Robert Redford died overnight.
Speaker 1: He was eighty nine. I don't know if you are
Speaker 1: very familiar with him as younger millennials.
Speaker 2: My first thought was my nun would be really sad
Speaker 2: about this, and then I remembered that my nan died
Speaker 2: twenty years ago. But She talked about Robert Redford a lot.
Speaker 2: He was originally in The Great Out.
Speaker 1: She was kind of like the Leo of his generation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw eighty nine.
Speaker 1: I was like, that's young.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I thought the man gone before his time.
Speaker 2: It feels young man.
Speaker 1: I get him and Paul Newman a little bit mixed
Speaker 1: up also Jed but he's Salah dressing Butch Cassidy and
Speaker 1: the Sundance Kid the way we were and the sting
Speaker 1: with some of the movies he was in, and then
Speaker 1: he became a director, an acclaimed director, and he also
Speaker 1: was the co founder of the Sundance Film Festival. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so he seemed like a.
Speaker 3: Really nice person, Like I was reading people, remember, everyone
Speaker 3: said he was lovely.
Speaker 1: You know who got married? Also reportedly recently it's Keanu
Speaker 1: Reeves at the age of sixty one. I didn't know
Speaker 1: they got married.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I knew they were together.
Speaker 1: What was interesting about this, You may remember we've spoken
Speaker 1: about on the show before. There were pictures of Keanu
Speaker 1: Reeves and his girlfriend Alexandra Grant. They've been together since
Speaker 1: about twenty nineteen, and everyone was so excited because she
Speaker 1: has gray hairs, and we were like, thank you Kianu.
Speaker 1: She's only fifty two, so she's almost ten years younger
Speaker 1: than him. Still, she's an artist. She's an artist, and
Speaker 1: they work together for a long time. They were very
Speaker 1: good friends and things turned romantic. About six years ago.
Speaker 1: They reportedly got married in Europe over summer. They haven't
Speaker 1: given too many details about it because Keiana's famously very private.
Speaker 2: I read an article like the Absolute salivating over this
Speaker 2: story for the last six or so years. Is just
Speaker 2: like Keanu Reeves touches woman with gray hair, and Keanu
Speaker 2: Reeves puts arm around grayhaired woman.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, she's she's my age.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like they really seem excited that a grayhaired woman exists.
Speaker 3: I bet she had a wedding dress with an asymmetric ham.
Speaker 3: She's very conceptual in her style.
Speaker 2: She's very cool.
Speaker 1: Gen X's represent And the birth that I wanted to
Speaker 1: tell you about is one that happened a year ago,
Speaker 1: so it's not exactly breaking news, but you might know
Speaker 1: that Margot Robbie had her first baby, a son, with
Speaker 1: her husband Tom Ackley, who's also her producing partner. They
Speaker 1: had their little boy, whose name they have not revealed,
Speaker 1: October last year, so he'd be almost one. October could
Speaker 1: be a good name. You could start that rumor. But
Speaker 1: the reason that she's top of mind is that this
Speaker 1: week you may have heard or seen some photos of
Speaker 1: her at a premiere. She's hitting the red carpet for
Speaker 1: the first time since her Barbie promotional tour in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three, and you really couldn't miss it because she
Speaker 1: was pretty much nude. She's promoting this movie called A Big, Bold,
Speaker 1: Beautiful Journey with Colin Farrell, and what was so striking
Speaker 1: about the pictures A couple of things. They were in London,
Speaker 1: it was the evening. There's Colin Farrell in a suit,
Speaker 1: a full suit with a big trench coat over the top.
Speaker 1: He looks very dapper, but.
Speaker 2: He's looking very different seasons.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she is in a completely see through dress. From
Speaker 1: the back you can see her whole bum. She's wearing
Speaker 1: a g string. It goes down to just above her bum.
Speaker 2: Admits she'll bum amazing.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm not saying it's not that she doesn't look amazing,
Speaker 1: And in the front she looks like completely nude. A
Speaker 1: couple of nights later she went to another premiere, probably
Speaker 1: in la and she was wearing another dress that was
Speaker 1: sort of just like a little kind of like a
Speaker 1: strapless imagine a strapless white swimsuit with just a few
Speaker 1: pieces of black fabric. Again down no notes, a couple
Speaker 1: of things interesting. She didn't used to dress like this.
Speaker 1: So Margot Robbie has always had a phenomenal body. She's
Speaker 1: one of the most beautiful women in the world. Everyone
Speaker 1: knows that, but she's never shown a lot of flesh
Speaker 1: on a red carpet. It's not really been her thing.
Speaker 1: But the other person who was in a dress that
Speaker 1: was almost nude this week, and you know, this is
Speaker 1: my area of expertise. I'd like to do my PhD
Speaker 1: and famous women wearing no pants.
Speaker 2: You know you have to do an undergraduate degree before
Speaker 2: you do a PhD.
Speaker 1: I'll download one.
Speaker 2: Amelia and I are you two to education.
Speaker 1: Dakotah Johnson. She was going to a charity fundraiser for
Speaker 1: the Caring Foundation, who it was to raise money for
Speaker 1: women who are the victims of dramestic violence. And she
Speaker 1: was wearing literally a black bra, black undies, and a
Speaker 1: completely sheer black long dress.
Speaker 3: Whenever I see women wearing visible underwear, I just automatically
Speaker 3: screenshot it and send it to you because I know
Speaker 3: that it will ruin your day reliably.
Speaker 1: I'll get riled up now. I'm not going to get
Speaker 1: riled up today. But what I thought was interesting about
Speaker 1: both of these women is the idea that they've both
Speaker 1: had big life changes recently. Margo's become a mother. This
Speaker 1: is her first time out really publicly on a red
Speaker 1: carpet since then. And Dakota Johnson also had a big
Speaker 1: identity change she became single.
Speaker 2: Oh wait, is this confirmed from Chris Martin. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: didn't know this. This is brand new information.
Speaker 1: I'm confirming it now.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: And what's interesting to me is that both of these
Speaker 1: women new dresses aren't new. No pants aren't new. They're
Speaker 1: not even necessarily new for these women because Dakotah Johnson's
Speaker 1: been doing it a couple of times since this room
Speaker 1: had break up, which happened a few months ago. But
Speaker 1: for my god, it's different. To me. It's reclaiming of identity.
Speaker 1: After something big happens in your life, you want to
Speaker 1: reclaim your identity, and it's reclaiming your identity by showing
Speaker 1: the world that you have a hot body. In what
Speaker 1: I would say is a pretty male gaysy way.
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, no, no, no no. So it's a
Speaker 2: relaunch of a kind. And I think that everyone does
Speaker 2: a relaunch man, woman peacock, like we all do a res.
Speaker 1: It's Chris Martin's relaunch. He's just I don't I think
Speaker 1: this says an aggressively. My body is back. I've raised
Speaker 1: all the signs that.
Speaker 3: Chris Martin was walking around in his spitos because he'd
Speaker 3: just broken up with Dakotas.
Speaker 2: Someone did a relaunch recently, a man who just started dressing.
Speaker 2: It was Ben Affleck after j Lo, and he got
Speaker 2: his leather jacket on and he went full mid life.
Speaker 1: But imagine if man after they became fathers walked red
Speaker 1: carpets with no shirts.
Speaker 2: Men's bodies quite literally in service for a minimum of
Speaker 2: twelve months, right in service of the growth and sustaining life.
Speaker 1: So it be That's exactly my point. It would be
Speaker 1: easier for the man to do that because they didn't
Speaker 1: have to actually carry and then possibly feed a baby.
Speaker 2: But the thing about Margo, so she had the Barbie
Speaker 2: premiere and then she was pregnant, she just had this baby.
Speaker 2: There is a moment and I see it with so
Speaker 2: many women who have just had a baby, and often
Speaker 2: when you've finished breastfeeding, which we were just talking about,
Speaker 2: where you get your body back. I don't mean literally,
Speaker 2: I don't mean you fit into your old jeans. I
Speaker 2: don't even mean that. It's just like the contours of
Speaker 2: my body now belong to me, and I'm on a
Speaker 2: red carpet. There's no one to touch, and all power
Speaker 2: to her like I reckon that. That is one element
Speaker 2: of why she's dressing like that. The other element is
Speaker 2: that Margo Robbie is not choosing what she's wearing on
Speaker 2: these red carpets.
Speaker 1: That's she's got enormous power.
Speaker 2: She's a no, she has one of the best stylistships.
Speaker 1: She does and it's a decision. The celebrity always has
Speaker 1: the last word because they're wearing the dress.
Speaker 2: You think someone's telling Margo Robbie, I think that she's
Speaker 2: showing up and she has been given a wardrobe.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: The reason why she's dressing sexy, no, is that from
Speaker 2: Barbie to Once upon a Time in Hollywood, everything from
Speaker 2: like the clip in her hair to the bow on
Speaker 2: her shoes is like all in theme with the film
Speaker 2: so on Barbie. She was dressed as a doll the
Speaker 2: entire premiere.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was an extraordinary collaboration between her and
Speaker 1: Andrew maccamal is, her stylist, one of the most sought
Speaker 1: after stylists in the world right and very famous stylists
Speaker 1: like law Roachinzindia. It's very much a partnership and Mago Robbie.
Speaker 1: The way these big tools work now because once upon
Speaker 1: a time a celebrity would do the cover of a
Speaker 1: magazine and go my post baby body and they'd pose. Now,
Speaker 1: red carpets are that they don't need magazines anymore. So
Speaker 1: what happens at the beginning of our press to her
Speaker 1: is that they sit down, there's a mood board, they decide,
Speaker 1: there's a whole lot of things. So it's like, we'll
Speaker 1: use that for the La Premiere, will do this for
Speaker 1: the blah blah. And so my point is that it's
Speaker 1: a very deliberate choice. And I'm not criticizing that choice,
Speaker 1: to be clear, but I'm saying I'm observing that in
Speaker 1: our culture, and particularly in Hollywood, the way to say
Speaker 1: I'm back baby is to have erased every sign of
Speaker 1: your pregnancy from your body.
Speaker 2: Okay, be hot, I disagree that that's what's going on,
Speaker 2: because so she's working with that stylist for this press
Speaker 2: run as well. And Tamara Davis, who's a fashion and
Speaker 2: lifestyle writer here at Mummeya, posted something on Instagram the
Speaker 2: other day I thought was very astute kind of theory
Speaker 2: about what was going on, which is that this movie
Speaker 2: was never going to be the blockbuster of Barbie, right.
Speaker 2: It was never going to have the same vibe around it,
Speaker 2: the same momentum. So if you're ever gonna get your
Speaker 2: legs out, you're gonna get it out for this movie
Speaker 2: because it needs your publicity.
Speaker 1: Now, Okay, Jesse, You've just actually completely made my point.
Speaker 2: I'm saying that this is not in service of look
Speaker 2: at my post baby body. It's in service of this movie,
Speaker 2: which the genre is that it is a romantic fantasy.
Speaker 2: That's what she's dressing as a romantic fantasy.
Speaker 1: She's working.
Speaker 3: Not criticizing her either, but I feel a little bit
Speaker 3: sad because it feels a little bit like reassuring us
Speaker 3: that the baby's not going to change anything, that she's
Speaker 3: still just as sexy and attracted.
Speaker 1: Yes, I think that that is not an emotion that
Speaker 1: we haven't all felt. Whether it's getting back into your genes,
Speaker 1: it's somehow saying hey, I'm still here.
Speaker 2: I think she's saying I am still a working woman.
Speaker 2: She's got wathering heights coming up.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm still a working woman. Here's my bum.
Speaker 2: But it is consistent, it is thematically consistent. Wathering heights
Speaker 2: will be a completely different wardrobe. This totally makes sense
Speaker 2: with with what she's doing. If she was doing Inside
Speaker 2: out too or some like animation, she wouldn't be wearing
Speaker 2: these clothes. This is part of her job.
Speaker 1: Can we not deconstruct the fact that her job and
Speaker 1: getting attention in this economy involves the story Margo Robbie's
Speaker 1: hottest body in the world. She's back baby, forget the
Speaker 1: bab baby what baby? Well, Colin Farrell, who's in the
Speaker 1: same movie, gets to dress and say, it's a gadget.
Speaker 1: I looked up and it was thirteen degrees in lond.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can tell she was actually shaking when she
Speaker 2: was freezing. This is always It happened with Wicked. It
Speaker 2: happens with every press tool. Like they're still in character.
Speaker 2: She's in character. She's wearing a character outfit. She's doing
Speaker 2: her job, she's getting paid, all power to her.
Speaker 1: Her character is naked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, romantic fantasy. As if you don't say that and
Speaker 2: go oh man, looking at Muga Robbie for two hours,
Speaker 2: I feel like that.
Speaker 3: I just think there's a level of anxiety revealed in
Speaker 3: dressing like that, Like I still.
Speaker 1: Want to be relevant, I still want to be here.
Speaker 3: I still want to be the femfertale enge and you,
Speaker 3: and it's like, yeah, Margot Robbie is not only is
Speaker 3: she a stunningly successful actor, she's also an amazing producer.
Speaker 3: She produced the Barbie movie, she's producing Wuthering Heights. Isn't
Speaker 3: there a point at which she can get our attention
Speaker 3: not through her body?
Speaker 2: So okay, now that she's had a baby, does she
Speaker 2: need to be wearing her moomoo?
Speaker 1: That's what helds, That's what a little bonnet? Is that
Speaker 1: what we want? No to me, it's I think it's
Speaker 1: revealing of the system and revealing of the system in
Speaker 1: which Margot Robbie works, which is I have to reassure
Speaker 1: everybody that I'm not mumsy, that I'm not in any
Speaker 1: way changed, that I'm even hotter than I was before
Speaker 1: I had a baby, and everyone's going to say it's
Speaker 1: her right to wear whatever she wants. Of course it is.
Speaker 1: We're talking about the system that rewards I've got my
Speaker 1: bum out, and it's not in the free way forward.
Speaker 3: Like I would posit that Jennifer Lawrence recently had a
Speaker 3: baby and then had a second baby in fairly quick succession,
Speaker 3: did not go down this exact path. And it's surprising
Speaker 3: to me because i'mlike Margot Robbie, Jennifer Lawrence isn't a
Speaker 3: power broker in Hollywood.
Speaker 1: Margot Robbie.
Speaker 3: Now if she says I want to make a movie
Speaker 3: of that book, that movie gets made and it's a hit.
Speaker 3: Jennifer Lawrence doesn't have that power. And yet, interestingly did
Speaker 3: choose a different path in terms of how she presented
Speaker 3: herself after having a baby.
Speaker 2: I think we've got a bit Pearl clutchy about mothers
Speaker 2: who are still like, I'm sexy, look at my legs,
Speaker 2: and you know what if she looks like that after
Speaker 2: having a baby and she's done.
Speaker 1: The movie and have to Kota.
Speaker 2: I hadn't even seen that picture actually yet, but I
Speaker 2: kind of love her. I think, yeah, great, I think
Speaker 2: that she's hilarious. Red carpets are about attention, and then
Speaker 2: we look at things the look you're being attention sticking
Speaker 2: on the red conic where your job is too good.
Speaker 1: I just think it's really interesting.
Speaker 3: The way Colin's inspector gadget like I do. Come back
Speaker 3: to that, like he is wearing the most covered up
Speaker 3: outfit you could possibly wear, which is a trench.
Speaker 1: So the marketing, what you're saying is the marketing of
Speaker 1: a movie now evolves.
Speaker 2: Around the quardrobe of the female start. Yes, that's exactly
Speaker 2: what I progress. Before we go. I came across a
Speaker 2: substack last night by Marina Cooley called seventeen household Habits
Speaker 2: that clear mental clutter. And I'm always looking for ways
Speaker 2: to drastically improve my life. On a Wednesday, I wanted
Speaker 2: to know how can I rearrange my home, my life
Speaker 2: so that there's no longer any stress. Well, she's got
Speaker 2: some tips. Okay, do you want to hear some of them?
Speaker 2: These are her tips for how we are going to
Speaker 2: improve our lives. First, one exit zone by the door. Now,
Speaker 2: an exit zone means that you have everything you would
Speaker 2: ever need before walking out the door. So right near
Speaker 2: the door you need either a cabinet or a cupboard
Speaker 2: or something that has your sonnies a piece off exactly,
Speaker 2: hats everything you need, second barrel exactly, but exactly.
Speaker 1: People have that, like the keys and stuff near the door, right.
Speaker 2: Keys, yes, but we have only recently had like a
Speaker 2: cupboard near the door that has like my hat and
Speaker 2: stuff in it.
Speaker 1: God, it's life. Change shoes inside your house.
Speaker 2: I sometimes do, but Luca doesn't like it. And so
Speaker 2: is there a collection of shoes there out the front door?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Louca likes that. It'd be barefoot and maybe pregnant.
Speaker 2: Second thing, always buy in duplicates. So if you know
Speaker 2: you're going to consistently use something, you're out of hand soap,
Speaker 2: you're out of detergent, you're around your laundry stuff. You're
Speaker 2: not buying one, you're buying two. You're going to use it.
Speaker 2: It's not going to expire. That's the rule.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Expensive, It is expensive, but you're gonna buy it anyway,
Speaker 2: right like always.
Speaker 1: Everybody I'm just going to say, not everybody has because
Speaker 1: he leaves. Not everybody's got that's their cash.
Speaker 2: Keep going, all right, it's the latest and privilege. Okay,
Speaker 2: here's another one put the house to bed, so every
Speaker 2: night you have to do a close down where you like,
Speaker 2: everything goes away so that in the morning you come
Speaker 2: and have a look and you go.
Speaker 1: Very important to me, okay, is the rule that the
Speaker 1: last person who goes to bed is responsible for the
Speaker 1: closed down.
Speaker 2: No, that's too much pressure. I think that everyone is
Speaker 2: doing closed down. It's like a when I worked at
Speaker 2: a bar and you were doing the night shift and
Speaker 2: everyone would go, all right, we're closing everything down. I
Speaker 2: think there's got to be like a five to ten minute.
Speaker 1: The problem is if you live in a house, most
Speaker 1: people have very different sort of schedule. So someone might
Speaker 1: go into their room to witch movie or whatever, play
Speaker 1: their vibrator earlier than oh my god, so you never
Speaker 1: know people might be coming and going, so not everyone's
Speaker 1: always together to close down, and you can't close down
Speaker 1: at six. Well, let's be real.
Speaker 3: The person who does the closed down is the person
Speaker 3: who cares about doing the closed down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly right, Thank god, it's not me.
Speaker 2: Okay. Here's my other one. A two week meal loop.
Speaker 2: So that means that you have ten weekly dinners same
Speaker 2: ones for those two weeks, and then you just have
Speaker 2: them on repeat. My shoe is I can't think of
Speaker 2: ten dinners.
Speaker 3: And my issue with these tips is they really went
Speaker 3: off the rails. They started getting really ridiculous some of
Speaker 3: the hips, and I feel like household hags always end
Speaker 3: up there. She started talking about how she has some
Speaker 3: fancy electronic gadget that puts everyone's schedule.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was like, no, no, no, no, no affiliate link.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And she also had once a year. You're like, oh,
Speaker 2: once a year you need to sit down with your family, yes,
Speaker 2: including all your children and have what she calls a
Speaker 2: yearly fine out summit where you talk about things like goals, budgets, savings.
Speaker 1: What do you think of that? Well? I tried to
Speaker 1: organize a Zoom meeting the other day, as you know, Jesse,
Speaker 1: because you're invited. It didn't really attend in very family
Speaker 1: meeting I did. I said, guys, family Zoom because we
Speaker 1: had to discuss arrangements for the dogs when I was
Speaker 1: beeway and just howses and various things, and the family
Speaker 1: wasn't very supportive.
Speaker 2: A highlight was when Luca thought the call was over
Speaker 2: and he said, that was an effing waste of time.
Speaker 1: And I'm still there I still still there, do you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? And also one of my children
Speaker 1: that will remain nameless, Remy just kept making himself like
Speaker 1: into a watermelon or into.
Speaker 2: A cash that's your finance summit.
Speaker 1: That was funny.
Speaker 2: A big thank you to all of you the out
Speaker 2: louders for listening to today's show and our fabulous team
Speaker 2: for putting this show together. And do not forget you
Speaker 2: can watch us on YouTube. Mayor has a spark this
Speaker 2: show and she'd like you to see it.
Speaker 1: I do, And I'm going to be here all week.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're going to join us for I'm.
Speaker 1: Having a nice time. Thanks for having me, Oh my
Speaker 1: goodness being great.
Speaker 2: We will be back in your ears tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Bye bye.
Speaker 2: Shout out to any Mom and me A subscribers listening.
Speaker 2: If you love the show and you want to support us,
Speaker 2: subscribing to Mom and Me I is the very best
Speaker 2: way to do so. There's a link in the episode description.