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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Muma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 3: I've got something else to tell you that's upsetting. Your

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Speaker 3: teeth keep growing as you age. And so I look

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Speaker 3: at my kid's teeth and they look like little niblets,

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Speaker 3: and they gorgeous little niblets. And then I see mine

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Speaker 3: and they're just long in the tooth.

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Speaker 2: Long in the tooth, long in the two.

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Speaker 1: My teeth is a big enough. Look at a little

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Speaker 1: kids teeth and they're just little niblets. They're so cute.

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Speaker 1: I'm just all teeth. My whole face is just going

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Speaker 1: to be teeth.

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Speaker 2: And our noses keep growing and our ears keep growing.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to mummya out Loud. It's what women are actually

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Speaker 2: talking about on Wednesday, the seventeenth of September.

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Speaker 1: I am Jesse Stevens, I'm still Mia Friedman, and I'm Amelia.

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Speaker 2: Lester and here's what's on our agenda for today.

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Speaker 3: A woman was told she couldn't pump breast milk in

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Speaker 3: an airport lounge, and Maya.

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Speaker 1: Has an unpopular opinion.

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Speaker 2: That I'm going to change.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to change that a.

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Speaker 2: Bit very quickly, plus some candid admission about actor Bruce

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Speaker 2: Willis and why his wife, Emma Heming Willis is facing criticism.

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Speaker 1: I'm bringing a little bit of a news segment today

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Speaker 1: called birth, death and Marriages, and I'm going to somehow

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Speaker 1: manage to shoehorn in the fact that two very famous

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Speaker 1: women went to Premiers this week wearing no pants.

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Speaker 3: But first, in case you missed it, Donald Trump is

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Speaker 3: a dobber. The ABC journalist John Lyons asked Trump yesterday

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Speaker 3: about his business dealings and why he keeps making lots

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Speaker 3: of money while he's president.

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Speaker 2: Was this in person?

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Speaker 3: It was in person on the White House lawn. Trump

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Speaker 3: was about to go on his trip to the UK.

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Speaker 3: He's so excited because he gets to ride in a

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Speaker 3: horse drawn carriage with King Charles and stay at Windsor Castle.

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Speaker 1: God were indulging him, so he was.

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Speaker 3: Not happy to be interrupted on the way to his

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Speaker 3: dream trip by John Lyons. But let's have a listen

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Speaker 3: to what happened.

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Speaker 1: Appropriate President Trump that a president should.

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Speaker 3: Be engaged in so much prester's activity.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm really not. My kids are running the business

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Speaker 1: and you know what the activity?

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Speaker 3: Where are you from from the Australian Broad Catholic and

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Speaker 3: the Australias.

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Speaker 1: You're hurting Australia right in my opinion, you are hurting

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Speaker 1: Australia very much right now. But they want to get

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Speaker 1: along with me.

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Speaker 4: You know, you're your leader is coming over to see

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Speaker 4: me very so I'm going to tell them about you.

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Speaker 1: You said a very bad tale in return.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that was pointing his finger at John Lyons and saying.

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Speaker 1: Quiet, I'm going to try that with Jesse sometimes.

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Speaker 3: The reason I love this is because it highlighted for

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Speaker 3: me a cultural difference between Australia and the US. When

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Speaker 3: my kids started school here last year in Australia after

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Speaker 3: having moved from the US, they were immediately told not

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Speaker 3: to dob dollary.

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Speaker 2: Episodes about it. You cannot dob it is like the

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Speaker 2: number one rule.

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Speaker 3: But I just tell you that that's an Australian value,

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Speaker 3: not an American one, Like kids are not taught that

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Speaker 3: in the US.

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Speaker 1: So when Trump says.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to tell on you and I'm going to

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Speaker 3: tell your Prime minister about you, that scene is a

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Speaker 3: totally okay thing to do. It's it's you using the system.

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Speaker 3: It's like reporting someone who's breaking the rules, Like there's

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Speaker 3: no value in America saying you really job.

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Speaker 1: What joh Online should have said is don't be a dibbadubber.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he should have because there's a lot of stigma

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Speaker 2: here about dobbing. It comes up in loner's books all

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Speaker 2: the time. We don't dB unless someone is facing an

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Speaker 2: issue with their safety.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that.

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Speaker 2: Don't tell.

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Speaker 1: Also bullying and stuff. We do a courage kids to

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Speaker 1: speak up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, true, but generally speaking, I remember at school it

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Speaker 2: was like the kid who is a dibber dubber was

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Speaker 2: just not with the in crowd.

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Speaker 1: The way to dip adob is to set up a

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Speaker 1: fake Gmail couch what and then dip adob anonymously.

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Speaker 2: Is that what you've been doing with your time off?

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Speaker 2: Maybe you've just dip adobbing to people.

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Speaker 1: I have some feedback.

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Speaker 2: See that person is.

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Speaker 3: The main takeaway from this is that Trump's basically saying

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Speaker 3: he will in fact meet with that they Albaneasi and

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Speaker 3: I bet Albow is happy about that because it's been

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Speaker 3: really hard for him to meet with Trump so far.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Elise Turner is a GP who was returning from

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Speaker 3: a conference in Perth to her Gold Coast home yesterday

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Speaker 3: when she stopped off in the Virgin Australia lounge at

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Speaker 3: Melbourne Airport, and she was there because she was on

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Speaker 3: a stopover on the way back home, and she wanted

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Speaker 3: to pump some breast milk in the Virgin lounge and

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Speaker 3: a supervisor came over to her and said, you can't

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Speaker 3: do that here because there are men and it will

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Speaker 3: make people uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: Did she specifically say there are men or did.

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Speaker 3: She According to doctor Turner, she did cite the presence

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Speaker 3: of men, okay. Doctor Turner says that she explained the

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Speaker 3: pump was under her shirt, that there would be no

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Speaker 3: nipple showing, but she was allowed to finish pumping, which

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Speaker 3: I think is a part of this story that maybe

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Speaker 3: was lost in the headlines. So after she finished pumping,

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Speaker 3: on her way out of the lounge, she stopped to

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Speaker 3: see the supervisor and she told the supervisor that she

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Speaker 3: had made her feel pretty cruddy for breast pumping.

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Speaker 1: That's the exact phrase.

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Speaker 3: And that's when the supervisor said, you got to leave.

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Speaker 3: She put her hand on doctor Turner's arm and she said,

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Speaker 3: you've got to leave. You're making me uncomfortable and here's

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Speaker 3: what doctor Turner said about the experience afterwards, being.

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Speaker 4: Told that I can't sit here in the Virgin Lounge

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Speaker 4: as a paying business class ticket holder to express breast

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Speaker 4: milk that sits under my shirt like this, because this

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Speaker 4: is a private business lounge and we don't do that here.

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Speaker 4: This is just disgusting that this is twenty twenty five

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Speaker 4: and this is the sort of treatment that lactating mothers

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Speaker 4: are expected to deal with.

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Speaker 3: MAYA, Yes, I think you've got something to say about.

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Speaker 1: This, Okay, So my opinion is exactly what's wrong with

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Speaker 1: the world in twenty twenty five, because when I first

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Speaker 1: heard about this story, I hadn't seen any pictures and

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Speaker 1: I didn't know any details. I thought woman tried to

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Speaker 1: pump in a lounge, was asked to maybe do it

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Speaker 1: in the bathroom, She said no, do you prepare your

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Speaker 1: meals in a toilet? Was asked to leave, And I

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Speaker 1: was like, you know, I've breastfed three children everywhere funerals,

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Speaker 1: at weddings, in public, in meetings, at airports, on planes,

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Speaker 1: in front of all manner of people, and there is

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Speaker 1: a difference between breastfeeding and pumping.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, talk me through that. I don't know if I agree.

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Speaker 1: So when you breastfeed, there's a baby's head in front

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Speaker 1: of your boob, and the baby has a group on

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Speaker 1: your nipple, there might be a little bit of access

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Speaker 1: when you.

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Speaker 2: But your second, do you think you're safe the baby

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Speaker 2: starts to go and play with something and your nip's

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Speaker 2: just out and your nipple has never been darker.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes that happens, right, but generally it's different to when

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Speaker 1: you are pumping. And if you haven't pumped before, and

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Speaker 1: I've pumped a ton again, I've pumped in all different

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Speaker 1: places and including bathrooms, and I agree it's horrible to

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Speaker 1: have to do it in a toilet where you have

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Speaker 1: to smell everybody else's pooh. That's disgusting and it's not hygienic.

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Speaker 1: It's not because you've got to keep it all very stale.

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Speaker 1: But when you're pumping, you actually, depending on the pump,

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Speaker 1: you can often see the nipple and the milk coming out.

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Speaker 1: It also makes a lot of noise. If you've got

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Speaker 1: a handheld one then it can be just a bit

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Speaker 1: more squelch, squelch, squelch. I didn't realize that she was

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Speaker 1: under her shirt.

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize the white corner.

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Speaker 1: So my unpopular opinion, which is that pumping and breastfeeding

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Speaker 1: in public is not the same, I kind of retract.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I disagree with you that they're not the same.

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Speaker 2: Another detail of this story that's getting missed, which I've

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Speaker 2: become quite obsessed with, is that doctor Elise Turner isn't

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Speaker 2: the mother of one new one. She's got twins. She

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Speaker 2: has six month old twins.

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Speaker 1: Now, oh okay, because my fact.

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Speaker 2: Mother has two sets of twins. I'm obsessed with the

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Speaker 2: logistics of that. My mum lasted maybe four days of

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Speaker 2: breastfeeding twins is one of the hardest you need a

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Speaker 2: PhD in like when it comes to supply the fact

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Speaker 2: that she's got to six months breastfeeding with twins, that

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Speaker 2: woman deserves an order of Australian metal.

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Speaker 1: But I reckon I just accidentally keep feeding the same twin.

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Speaker 2: Get that one really fat, like you need you'd need

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Speaker 2: a spreadsheet or something. The thing about pumping that I

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Speaker 2: didn't understand until I had to pump was that when

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Speaker 2: you have to pump, you have to pump. Now you

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Speaker 2: cannot do it on someone else's schedule. It's the same

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Speaker 2: as breastfeeding in that way. In order to keep up supply,

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Speaker 2: you need to be on a particular schedule, and you

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Speaker 2: also get engaged. So I had a situation on a

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Speaker 2: plane where the plane was delayed, delayed, delayed, and I

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Speaker 2: could feel myself getting engaged, and I'm thinking, Mastidis is

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Speaker 2: fifteen minutes away, Like I need.

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Speaker 1: To relieve this.

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Speaker 2: We'll get ushered onto the plane. I'm like, it's fine.

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Speaker 2: Once we're off, I'll go into the bathroom and I'll

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Speaker 2: pump and I sit in my seat. And ten minutes past,

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Speaker 2: fifteen minutes gets to about thirty minutes, and I was

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Speaker 2: like this is I'm like leaking, Like this is this

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Speaker 2: is really bad.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's painful, it's really painstules.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it just started feeling hot and awful, and

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Speaker 2: I'm starting to get anxious, and I went, I've just

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Speaker 2: got to go to the bathroom. So I took my

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Speaker 2: bag and I went to go to the bathroom, and

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Speaker 2: there was an announcement over the plane going basically, get

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Speaker 2: in your seats. You're not allowed to stand up, like

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Speaker 2: where where something was going on with the plane. You know,

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Speaker 2: when you've got to have your belt on before take.

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Speaker 1: Off, conturbulent.

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Speaker 2: Often, No, the plane haven't left, but we've been sitting

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Speaker 2: there for thirty minut So I was like, well, can

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Speaker 2: I just get some clarity. I got to relieve myself anyway.

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Speaker 2: I went back to my seat, full flight, two businessmen

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Speaker 2: next to me.

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Speaker 1: You know, six o'clock. Were you in the middle?

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Speaker 2: I was in the middle. No, I have no choice

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Speaker 2: right now except to pump. And I didn't have one

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Speaker 2: of the really cool wearable ones. It was quite bulky.

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Speaker 1: Was it electric or was it?

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Speaker 2: It was electric?

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Speaker 1: And it was.

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Speaker 2: It was loud, but you know the ones that can

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Speaker 2: hide in your brain. It wasn't that I could hide,

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Speaker 2: like they couldn't see my nipples. But I sat there

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Speaker 2: with tears streaming down my face, just going I don't

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Speaker 2: want to do this, but like, I have no choice.

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Speaker 2: And I found that even in the workplace.

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Speaker 1: Did you say something to the men or did they

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Speaker 1: say anything to you?

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Speaker 2: No, they were actually they kind of looked looked the

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Speaker 2: other way. And I remember at one stage making eye

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Speaker 2: contact with a flight attendant and being like, if you

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Speaker 2: say a word, I am going to riot. Like I

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Speaker 2: think there's a sensitivity to that. You're incredibly because you're

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Speaker 2: just going. There is so much pressure on me and

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Speaker 2: Release Turner and every other woman to keep breastfeed. We

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Speaker 2: are trying our very best. Pumping is the only way

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Speaker 2: that most women can feasibly do it, alongside work, which

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Speaker 2: we often need to get back to because of you know,

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Speaker 2: two parent working households, whatever. And then when there's any

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Speaker 2: shame or stigma or anything that makes you feel embarrassed

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Speaker 2: about it, you get so angry.

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Speaker 1: But Amelia, don't you think that doctor Turner and Jesse

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Speaker 1: should have been at home with their baby? You can

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Speaker 1: really why were they on planes?

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Speaker 3: You can hear the emotion, can't you, in Doctor Turner's voice,

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Speaker 3: And it's because six months postpardon, there's so much that's

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Speaker 3: going on chemically in her body is still as well,

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Speaker 3: and being away from your baby, or babies when they're

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Speaker 3: still six months old, you've already got a heightened level

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Speaker 3: of anxiety coursing through your veins because your body is

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Speaker 3: telling you that you should not be away from the baby.

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Speaker 3: And so then to have some one come up to

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Speaker 3: you and make you feel embarrassed, I can see how

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Speaker 3: that really sent her spiraling, and I have so much

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Speaker 3: sympathy for her what's interesting about pumping is I dug

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Speaker 3: into this and doctor Churner's pointed out that breastfeeding and

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Speaker 3: pumping are both protected acts under the Sex Discrimination Act

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Speaker 3: of nineteen eighty four, But back in nineteen eighty four,

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Speaker 3: pumping was nowhere near as common as it is now,

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Speaker 3: and the actual wording of that act talks about breastfeeding

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Speaker 3: and expressing. Now expressing for those who don't know, is

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Speaker 3: this kind of like milk made act where you have

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Speaker 3: to kind of fondle your own.

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Speaker 1: Breasts and the kept milk. Think of a cow never

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Speaker 1: mastered it tricky.

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Speaker 2: I've had to do it because the logistics of remembering

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Speaker 2: all your pump parts, Like I would forget one part,

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Speaker 2: I'd get to work and go, oh, I fucked, and

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Speaker 2: I'd have to go into the bathroom and like a

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Speaker 2: cow with a tea, really milk myself so that I

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Speaker 2: didn't get massed out.

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Speaker 1: I think what you said, Jess is so interesting about

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Speaker 1: the shame from both ends, because as a mother, Avenue born,

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Speaker 1: and you know, those first few months particularly, there's so

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Speaker 1: much pressure to breastfeed, often when it's not the right

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Speaker 1: thing for your baby, and it's not the right thing

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Speaker 1: for you. So you already feel ashamed if you can't

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Speaker 1: do it right, if your baby's not putting on weight,

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Speaker 1: if you don't like it, you know, if you stop

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Speaker 1: too early or you supplement before, if your baby doesn't

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Speaker 1: like it, by the way, like this, but to then

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Speaker 1: get shamed by the other side as well. Now I'm

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Speaker 1: remembering I used to breastfeed quite aggressively in public, particularly

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Speaker 1: with babies two and three, because I think I was

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Speaker 1: a little bit bored and I was just like, come

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Speaker 1: at me. I was like waiting for someone to say something,

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Speaker 1: so I'd like do it everywhere. No one ever said anything.

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Speaker 1: I was a bit disappointed.

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Speaker 3: There's also some cultural norms run it in different places,

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Speaker 3: Like I lived in Japan with a newborn, and it's

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Speaker 3: just a fact that you would not breastfeed in public there,

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Speaker 3: like we just it is not accepted.

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Speaker 1: It's breastfeeding culturally expected well here and encouraged.

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Speaker 3: It is culturally accepted and encouraged, but unlike in the West,

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Speaker 3: they've actually decided to allow for women to do it

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Speaker 3: in nice spaces. So while you cannot breastfeed in public,

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Speaker 3: they make sure that, for instance, if you go to

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Speaker 3: the shopping mall, there is a literal lounge in every

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Speaker 3: shopping mall for breastfeeding mothers to just lounge around with

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Speaker 3: their babies in this safe, clean place.

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Speaker 1: There's a place for hot water. It's totally nice. In Australia,

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Speaker 1: have too.

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Speaker 2: I actually kind of prefer that I've been out with

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Speaker 2: friends at the pub, at a restaurant, at a concert

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Speaker 2: and they've been pumping.

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Speaker 1: My sister might have pumped a Tailors concert.

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Speaker 2: She absolutely did.

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Speaker 1: I think Taylor would approve of that.

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Speaker 2: Another interesting detail about this was that I read somewhere

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Speaker 2: that she was then encouraged to go into one of

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Speaker 2: the private rooms, but you had to pay no.

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Speaker 3: So she asked before she started pumping, Hey do you

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Speaker 3: have a space for me to do this? And they

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Speaker 3: said that you've got two options. You can hire a

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Speaker 3: boardroom for one hundred dollars, or you can use the bathroom.

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Speaker 3: And what I was going to say about the Japan

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Speaker 3: example is if you're not comfortable with women breastfeeding and

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Speaker 3: pumping in public, you have to be able to provide

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Speaker 3: a space for them to do it, because, as you

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Speaker 3: point out, Jess, it is kind of a physical act

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Speaker 3: that can lead to harm if it's not done. And

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Speaker 3: so that's where I think is the trip up here.

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Speaker 3: You can't have it both ways. You can't say don't

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Speaker 3: do it in public, but then we're not giving you

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Speaker 3: a space.

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Speaker 1: Please stop telling women to do it in toilets. Have

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Speaker 1: you ever hung out in a toilet? It's true? Would

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Speaker 1: you like to prepare a meal in a toilet?

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Speaker 2: The issue with the toilet too. I pumped in a

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Speaker 2: plane cubicle once during turbulence, and everything I pumped went

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Speaker 2: all over the walls, like it just wasn't logistically possible.

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Speaker 1: But you need a lot of milk, probably the.

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Speaker 2: Same flight I probably went on one fly and it's

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Speaker 2: just always. But you need a table like you have

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Speaker 2: because the one that I had, and this is then

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Speaker 2: it's like if you have the one that you tuck

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Speaker 2: into your bra, they're like, you know, that's not very

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Speaker 2: good for supply, so you should really get the one

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Speaker 2: that's got forty five pieces and costs you eight hundred

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Speaker 2: dollars and you're just like, oh okay. And I had

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Speaker 2: like bottles that went onto a thing that I had

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Speaker 2: a special bra. I had to put on all of

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Speaker 2: that to do it, like am I meant to do

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Speaker 2: it on the toilet see with my sterilized look.

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Speaker 1: I think the planes are slightly different because you can't

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Speaker 1: have a dedicated breastfeeding room on every plane, like you

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Speaker 1: also have to say you can't have a dedicated breastfeeding

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Speaker 1: room in every workplace permanently. As an employer, I do

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Speaker 1: believe you might be legally.

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Speaker 2: Required to that's not a bathroom.

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Speaker 1: That's not a bathroom.

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Speaker 2: But and you've got to let me put it in

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Speaker 2: the fridge.

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Speaker 1: When I was at Channel nine and I used to breastfeed,

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Speaker 1: literally it was a whole lot of beers and my

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Speaker 1: breast and that said everything you needed to know about that.

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Speaker 3: But is meant to stimulate breast milk, right, old wives tale.

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Speaker 3: But I was going to say, for people who were

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Speaker 3: not familiar with breast pumps, they do look weird. I

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Speaker 3: do want to put that out there, and there's something

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Speaker 3: a little bit confronting about them, because I remember when

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Speaker 3: Rachel McAdams there was a photo of taken of her

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Speaker 3: on a film set looking impossibly glamorous and beautiful because

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Speaker 3: she's Rachel McAdams and she had her too. I think

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Speaker 3: it was the cover of a magazine and she had

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Speaker 3: she's the one that looked breastmats does strikingly.

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Speaker 2: That's the one that I had a very similar breast paper.

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Speaker 3: She had like two breast pumps with the bottom on

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Speaker 3: each nipple. And you've got to say that there's some

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Speaker 3: part about it that looks like in the same way

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Speaker 3: that a polate's reformer matt looks a little bit like

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Speaker 3: a kind of fetish device. There's something about pumping that's

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Speaker 3: a I can see how aesthetically it's confronting to people

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Speaker 3: who are not familiar with the equipment.

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Speaker 1: Let's put it that.

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Speaker 2: I think it's athetically confronting to the person using it

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Speaker 2: and to the baby. I hate it. But did you

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Speaker 2: always a pump?

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Speaker 1: Did you, guys ever pump in front of anybody like

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Speaker 1: that you knew, like just in your house, like you

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Speaker 1: were always quite private, even with breastfeeding, you would often

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Speaker 1: go into another room. Jesse. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think people expect that just because you've had a baby,

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden, you have no modesty. And I

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Speaker 2: never ever found it comfortable to sit in a cafe

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Speaker 2: and I was like, I don't want to be stared at.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes you have to do it. I think that's why

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Speaker 2: there's a sensitivity too, is that it's like I'd prefer

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Speaker 2: not to, but I'm doing my best.

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Speaker 3: The hard thing about pumping, too is with breast feeding,

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Speaker 3: there's a sort of like unspoken relationship which is communicated

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Speaker 3: through smell and behavior and between the parent and the

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Speaker 3: child about when the breastfeeding is going to occur, and

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Speaker 3: there's some way that you can communicate with that baby

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Speaker 3: where you're like not now essentially, But the problem when

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Speaker 3: you're away from the baby is those cues are gone.

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Speaker 3: And so when you need to pump, you need to pump, yeah, and.

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Speaker 2: The milk comes out and they can see the milk

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Speaker 2: and I don't know about you guys, but might have

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Speaker 2: like a blue eytinge yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: And also it comes out like a sprinkler, yeah, which

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Speaker 1: most people don't know. But I remember very distinctly the

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Speaker 1: first time I pumped in front of my brother in

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Speaker 1: law and because I needed to pump and he was

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Speaker 1: over and I was like, is this where I didn't care?

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Speaker 1: He was cool with it. I don't know if i'd

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Speaker 1: do it like in front of my dad. I just

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Speaker 1: sort of didn't care as long as it was my

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Speaker 1: decision and no one was looking like leering it.

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Speaker 3: But that's an interesting question because now that I think

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Speaker 3: about it, breastfeeding I was fine doing in front of people.

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Speaker 3: Pumping I was not fine doing in front of people.

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Speaker 1: Definitely feels more intimate.

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Speaker 2: Weirdly, I think if you want to do it privately,

409
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Speaker 2: the idea I used to go and hide in a

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Speaker 2: video studio and do it at work, which I always

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Speaker 2: And the irony is I probably if pumping wasn't such

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Speaker 2: a terrible experience in terms of you're sitting in a

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Speaker 2: meeting that's running fifteen minutes over and you're going I

414
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Speaker 2: really got to run and pump, and then the breastfeeding

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Speaker 2: journey probably would have been longer. But for a lot

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Speaker 2: of people, they just go, this is far too hard.

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Speaker 2: But I love the idea some A friend of mine

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Speaker 2: recently went to a doctor's appointment and the doctor was

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Speaker 2: sitting there with a pump on during the appointment, and

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Speaker 2: I was like, I kind of love that.

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Speaker 3: That's better than when I went to the doctor once

422
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Speaker 3: for a perhap smear and she finished up her curry

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Speaker 3: before the perapsner began. Look, doctor Channer, I just want

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Speaker 3: to say, well done. I think having twins and breastfeedings

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Speaker 3: done really hard.

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Speaker 2: We salute you in a moment Emma Heming Willis and

427
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Speaker 2: the impossible decisions facing caregivers. When Emma Heming Willis says

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Speaker 2: it's not up for debate, It's not up for effing debate.

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Speaker 2: Those words were published on Laney Gossip last week in

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Speaker 2: regards to a choice made by forty seven year old

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Speaker 2: Emma Heming Willis, who is the wife of seventy year

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Speaker 2: old Bruce Willis, who is living with a devastating condition

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Speaker 2: called fronto temporal dementia. The reason you might be hearing

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Speaker 2: a lot about the Willis family at the moment is

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00:19:23,542 --> 00:19:26,302
Speaker 2: because Emma has written a book. It is called The

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00:19:26,381 --> 00:19:31,061
Speaker 2: Unexpected Journey, Finding Strength, Hope and Yourself on the Caregiving Path,

437
00:19:31,182 --> 00:19:36,861
Speaker 2: and it's all about Bruce Willis's diagnosis and illness. Last month,

438
00:19:36,901 --> 00:19:39,302
Speaker 2: Emma also shared that Bruce is now in his own

439
00:19:39,381 --> 00:19:42,941
Speaker 2: home with twenty four hour care. Emma and Bruce Willis

440
00:19:42,942 --> 00:19:46,262
Speaker 2: shared two children, they're eleven and thirteen, and she has

441
00:19:46,302 --> 00:19:49,101
Speaker 2: been open about how Bruce would want them to be

442
00:19:49,262 --> 00:19:51,982
Speaker 2: in their own environment that's suited to them and their needs,

443
00:19:52,022 --> 00:19:54,502
Speaker 2: where they can be noisy and be adolescents.

444
00:19:54,581 --> 00:19:56,302
Speaker 1: And this all sounds very sensible.

445
00:19:56,422 --> 00:19:59,181
Speaker 2: Yes, and Bruce needs his own environment at the moment

446
00:19:59,262 --> 00:20:03,982
Speaker 2: because of his particular set of needs. Now, since that admission,

447
00:20:04,141 --> 00:20:08,701
Speaker 2: Emma says she's received just this onslaught of online criticism

448
00:20:08,861 --> 00:20:12,382
Speaker 2: from strangers, just saying I cannot believe that you've put

449
00:20:12,462 --> 00:20:14,941
Speaker 2: him in care like that. Basically it's your job to

450
00:20:14,942 --> 00:20:17,621
Speaker 2: look after him. She said she anticipated that when sharing

451
00:20:17,621 --> 00:20:20,302
Speaker 2: her story, and in an interview with Diane Sawyer, she said,

452
00:20:20,742 --> 00:20:23,302
Speaker 2: I feel like caregivers are so judged. You have to

453
00:20:23,341 --> 00:20:25,101
Speaker 2: do what is right for your family and what is

454
00:20:25,141 --> 00:20:27,302
Speaker 2: going to keep your loved ones safe as well as

455
00:20:27,341 --> 00:20:28,462
Speaker 2: your young children.

456
00:20:28,661 --> 00:20:30,901
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought this was so interesting, and I think

457
00:20:30,942 --> 00:20:33,302
Speaker 1: that the reason for the backlash. I mean there's a

458
00:20:33,341 --> 00:20:36,302
Speaker 1: backlash to everything in these days, because had she said

459
00:20:36,341 --> 00:20:39,542
Speaker 1: we're putting him into full time care, into a home

460
00:20:40,462 --> 00:20:43,782
Speaker 1: because we can't meet his needs anymore, no one would

461
00:20:43,821 --> 00:20:44,582
Speaker 1: have said anything.

462
00:20:44,861 --> 00:20:47,182
Speaker 2: What do you think it was about the language that.

463
00:20:46,901 --> 00:20:49,581
Speaker 1: It's that they're rich. I think the people who would

464
00:20:49,581 --> 00:20:51,662
Speaker 1: have been angry are the people who were like, well,

465
00:20:51,702 --> 00:20:54,542
Speaker 1: that'd be nice, that'd be nice to have two houses.

466
00:20:55,182 --> 00:20:58,542
Speaker 1: I feel too guilty to put my person that I

467
00:20:58,581 --> 00:21:01,022
Speaker 1: have to care for into a home or I can't

468
00:21:01,061 --> 00:21:02,862
Speaker 1: afford to because full time care out of the home

469
00:21:02,942 --> 00:21:06,581
Speaker 1: is too expensive or too heart wrenching. Must be nice, right,

470
00:21:06,661 --> 00:21:08,181
Speaker 1: I think that's what it is, and I think it

471
00:21:08,262 --> 00:21:11,141
Speaker 1: comes from a place I think some people are just

472
00:21:11,222 --> 00:21:13,942
Speaker 1: judgmental dickheads, but we don't care about those. I think

473
00:21:13,942 --> 00:21:17,101
Speaker 1: that there would have been a real sense of pain

474
00:21:17,381 --> 00:21:20,102
Speaker 1: and envy. Yeah, I hope they can afford that.

475
00:21:20,262 --> 00:21:23,981
Speaker 2: I wondered if the strangers and the anger, if that

476
00:21:24,061 --> 00:21:26,261
Speaker 2: was coming from people who had never been in that

477
00:21:26,302 --> 00:21:29,942
Speaker 2: situation before and couldn't imagine what it was like and

478
00:21:30,061 --> 00:21:33,141
Speaker 2: maybe identifying. So there was a report that came out

479
00:21:33,141 --> 00:21:36,101
Speaker 2: a few days ago that said dementia is the number

480
00:21:36,101 --> 00:21:39,061
Speaker 2: one killer for people in Australia. It is everywhere. If

481
00:21:39,061 --> 00:21:41,821
Speaker 2: you are not currently caring for someone with dementia, it

482
00:21:41,861 --> 00:21:42,542
Speaker 2: is likely going to come.

483
00:21:42,702 --> 00:21:45,342
Speaker 1: Wow, that must have overtaken heart disease just.

484
00:21:45,302 --> 00:21:48,061
Speaker 2: In the last couple of days. And so I think

485
00:21:48,182 --> 00:21:50,941
Speaker 2: when we hear stories like this, we either identify really

486
00:21:50,982 --> 00:21:54,422
Speaker 2: strongly with the person with dementia, which is reasonable given

487
00:21:54,462 --> 00:21:57,461
Speaker 2: the rates, or we go I'm also going to be

488
00:21:57,462 --> 00:22:00,461
Speaker 2: someone probably looking after someone with dementia, right, and so

489
00:22:00,661 --> 00:22:03,821
Speaker 2: if you identify with that camp, you probably have a

490
00:22:03,821 --> 00:22:07,821
Speaker 2: bit more empathy for what that does to a life,

491
00:22:07,982 --> 00:22:11,662
Speaker 2: how many years it takes up. And also Emma has

492
00:22:11,702 --> 00:22:14,142
Speaker 2: done such a service to the subject of dementia because

493
00:22:14,141 --> 00:22:16,181
Speaker 2: she's talking about all the different kinds and this is

494
00:22:16,222 --> 00:22:21,061
Speaker 2: a really specific type of dementia where symptoms include a

495
00:22:21,141 --> 00:22:24,262
Speaker 2: lack of empathy, his personality changed.

496
00:22:24,982 --> 00:22:28,182
Speaker 1: You can become violent, you can become unpredictable, you can

497
00:22:28,341 --> 00:22:31,542
Speaker 1: be unsafe in your own home, like maybe the home

498
00:22:31,661 --> 00:22:33,701
Speaker 1: that they were in just wasn't suitable, maybe there was

499
00:22:33,742 --> 00:22:35,782
Speaker 1: a pool that didn't have a fence, like you just

500
00:22:35,821 --> 00:22:39,381
Speaker 1: don't know. And also, poor Emma, to me, this also

501
00:22:39,502 --> 00:22:43,701
Speaker 1: speaks of the impossible pressure and expectations we have of caregivers.

502
00:22:44,262 --> 00:22:47,102
Speaker 1: She's got two little girls on one hand, who are

503
00:22:47,222 --> 00:22:50,662
Speaker 1: eleven and thirteen. It's not like Bruce's adult children, who

504
00:22:50,742 --> 00:22:53,342
Speaker 1: many of whom have children of their own. And then

505
00:22:53,341 --> 00:22:56,982
Speaker 1: she's got her husband who is only seventy and she's

506
00:22:57,101 --> 00:22:59,461
Speaker 1: a fair bit younger than him, And one of her

507
00:22:59,502 --> 00:23:02,182
Speaker 1: biggest supporters is actually Demi. More because there are sort

508
00:23:02,222 --> 00:23:06,181
Speaker 1: of still a blended family and Demi and her girls

509
00:23:06,341 --> 00:23:09,341
Speaker 1: that she shares with Bruce Willison all very close, and

510
00:23:10,422 --> 00:23:13,581
Speaker 1: they've all lined up behind her and said, nobody understands,

511
00:23:13,821 --> 00:23:17,462
Speaker 1: and Bruce wouldn't want that burden on his young daughters.

512
00:23:17,821 --> 00:23:20,421
Speaker 2: What do you think about the admission, Amelia, Because she

513
00:23:20,422 --> 00:23:22,022
Speaker 2: didn't have to tell us any of this. She could

514
00:23:22,022 --> 00:23:24,981
Speaker 2: have just gone, I'm going to make my private decisions

515
00:23:25,422 --> 00:23:27,742
Speaker 2: with Bruce. Probably didn't even need to tell us about

516
00:23:27,742 --> 00:23:29,941
Speaker 2: the diagnosis, right, And once you put anything on the

517
00:23:29,942 --> 00:23:32,782
Speaker 2: public record, once you write a book and you're doing interviews.

518
00:23:32,982 --> 00:23:35,901
Speaker 1: No, she had to because he's a public figure, and

519
00:23:35,942 --> 00:23:37,941
Speaker 1: he had a big career, and he was still making

520
00:23:37,982 --> 00:23:40,542
Speaker 1: movies towards the end, and they were trying to get

521
00:23:40,581 --> 00:23:43,382
Speaker 1: around it by having ear pieces in his ears where

522
00:23:43,422 --> 00:23:45,302
Speaker 1: someone would feed in the lines, and so it was

523
00:23:45,381 --> 00:23:48,341
Speaker 1: quite well known in Hollywood that something was up.

524
00:23:48,861 --> 00:23:51,621
Speaker 3: I think you raised a really interesting point before, Jesse,

525
00:23:51,702 --> 00:23:53,821
Speaker 3: when you talked about how there are the people who

526
00:23:53,821 --> 00:23:56,462
Speaker 3: maybe identify with the caregiver here, and there are people

527
00:23:56,502 --> 00:24:00,302
Speaker 3: who identify with Bruce who has dementia. The problem with

528
00:24:00,462 --> 00:24:03,181
Speaker 3: identifying with Bruce here and saying, well, Bruce, how can

529
00:24:03,222 --> 00:24:05,821
Speaker 3: Bruce enjoy living in this house without his children? Is

530
00:24:05,861 --> 00:24:09,181
Speaker 3: that thinking about how to treat dementia and how to

531
00:24:09,222 --> 00:24:12,782
Speaker 3: respond to people with dementia is changing. Even now, even

532
00:24:12,782 --> 00:24:15,421
Speaker 3: how widespread it is, there's still a lot of different

533
00:24:15,422 --> 00:24:18,262
Speaker 3: schools of thought in terms of how people should respond

534
00:24:18,302 --> 00:24:20,941
Speaker 3: to dementia. I read a really interesting article in The

535
00:24:20,982 --> 00:24:23,061
Speaker 3: New Yorker from a few years ago called The Comforting

536
00:24:23,101 --> 00:24:26,542
Speaker 3: Fictions of Dementia Care, and it talked about how fifty

537
00:24:26,621 --> 00:24:30,022
Speaker 3: years ago, when someone with dementia would say where's my

538
00:24:30,341 --> 00:24:34,022
Speaker 3: husband or wife? The appropriate response, it was thought, was

539
00:24:34,061 --> 00:24:36,621
Speaker 3: to be completely honest with them and say they've died.

540
00:24:37,581 --> 00:24:39,661
Speaker 3: And if that meant saying your husband or wife has

541
00:24:39,702 --> 00:24:42,302
Speaker 3: died fifty times a day, then that that was the

542
00:24:42,341 --> 00:24:45,381
Speaker 3: medically appropriate thing to do. Well in the years since,

543
00:24:45,422 --> 00:24:47,661
Speaker 3: there's now been a new school of thought that says,

544
00:24:48,061 --> 00:24:51,381
Speaker 3: we don't need to be constantly giving these uncomfortable and

545
00:24:51,422 --> 00:24:52,821
Speaker 3: hard truths to these people.

546
00:24:53,502 --> 00:24:55,662
Speaker 1: They've lost that person again and again and again.

547
00:24:56,901 --> 00:24:59,341
Speaker 3: There's a whole new school of thought that says that

548
00:24:59,502 --> 00:25:02,581
Speaker 3: comforting fictions like saying to them, Oh, they must have

549
00:25:02,661 --> 00:25:05,341
Speaker 3: just gone to the shops, is an absolutely fine thing

550
00:25:05,422 --> 00:25:05,981
Speaker 3: to do. Now.

551
00:25:06,022 --> 00:25:08,821
Speaker 1: Again, that's just one school. Is that what you've discovered, Jesse,

552
00:25:09,742 --> 00:25:10,582
Speaker 1: that's really interesting.

553
00:25:10,621 --> 00:25:13,502
Speaker 2: You say that my grandfather is in an age care

554
00:25:13,581 --> 00:25:18,421
Speaker 2: a brilliant age care facility with dementia, and your impulse

555
00:25:18,661 --> 00:25:23,101
Speaker 2: is to try and keep their connection to reality strong.

556
00:25:23,302 --> 00:25:25,381
Speaker 2: So he starts talking about how his mother was just

557
00:25:25,422 --> 00:25:28,341
Speaker 2: in the room and his wife and he's still looking

558
00:25:28,381 --> 00:25:32,061
Speaker 2: after Simon, his grandson, and we would go, no, Simon

559
00:25:32,101 --> 00:25:34,422
Speaker 2: lives over here now, like that was our instinct, right,

560
00:25:34,742 --> 00:25:36,461
Speaker 2: And then we did all of this research and it

561
00:25:36,542 --> 00:25:40,502
Speaker 2: was basically like, how confusing. Imagine if you said I'm

562
00:25:40,502 --> 00:25:42,661
Speaker 2: going on to see my kids and I was like,

563
00:25:42,742 --> 00:25:46,461
Speaker 2: you don't have, Like that would be so destabilizing all

564
00:25:46,502 --> 00:25:49,542
Speaker 2: the time. It actually doesn't help. What's been lovely with

565
00:25:49,581 --> 00:25:52,341
Speaker 2: my pop, which is not everyone's experience, is that emotionally

566
00:25:52,381 --> 00:25:55,782
Speaker 2: he's okay, Like he's fine. If he thinks that Simon

567
00:25:55,901 --> 00:25:58,581
Speaker 2: just went up to the shop, then that's absolutely fine.

568
00:25:58,621 --> 00:26:02,421
Speaker 2: We don't have to kind of confront him with reality

569
00:26:02,462 --> 00:26:02,942
Speaker 2: all the time.

570
00:26:03,061 --> 00:26:06,141
Speaker 3: The issue is that for caregivers who've made this realization,

571
00:26:06,381 --> 00:26:08,581
Speaker 3: it can lead to something called deception guilt.

572
00:26:08,982 --> 00:26:11,581
Speaker 1: This is a real if caregivers.

573
00:26:11,061 --> 00:26:14,222
Speaker 3: Are constantly lying, and we've been taught from a very

574
00:26:14,222 --> 00:26:16,821
Speaker 3: early age that lying is a sign of disrespect, You're

575
00:26:16,821 --> 00:26:20,661
Speaker 3: not treating the person with respectety and dignity. It leads

576
00:26:20,702 --> 00:26:23,542
Speaker 3: to this feeling, am I doing something wrong? Even if

577
00:26:23,621 --> 00:26:26,462
Speaker 3: medical professionals are telling you that that's the accepted path.

578
00:26:26,581 --> 00:26:29,941
Speaker 3: And so that's a really hard thing for Emma to

579
00:26:29,982 --> 00:26:32,182
Speaker 3: have to deal with that she's being told no, it's

580
00:26:32,182 --> 00:26:35,622
Speaker 3: fine to lie. In fact, that's probably medically advisable. That's

581
00:26:35,661 --> 00:26:38,381
Speaker 3: going to weigh on her over time. And that's why

582
00:26:38,542 --> 00:26:41,061
Speaker 3: a lot of caregivers apparently speak about this idea that

583
00:26:41,101 --> 00:26:44,142
Speaker 3: they're no longer caring for their wife or their husband,

584
00:26:44,581 --> 00:26:48,941
Speaker 3: They've become a nurse, and that feeling of I'm no

585
00:26:49,061 --> 00:26:50,581
Speaker 3: longer in that relationship.

586
00:26:50,661 --> 00:26:51,302
Speaker 1: I'm a nurse.

587
00:26:51,422 --> 00:26:53,462
Speaker 3: I'm someone who's lying to this person all the time

588
00:26:53,502 --> 00:26:54,862
Speaker 3: because that's what I've been told to do.

589
00:26:55,341 --> 00:26:57,102
Speaker 1: I mean, who is anyone to judge that.

590
00:26:57,581 --> 00:26:59,661
Speaker 2: I think that what that spakes you as well is

591
00:26:59,661 --> 00:27:03,222
Speaker 2: that we just do not understand enough about the subjectivity

592
00:27:03,262 --> 00:27:05,861
Speaker 2: of the person living with the illness. We cannot understand

593
00:27:06,462 --> 00:27:09,222
Speaker 2: because they can't really tell us in the early stages. Yes,

594
00:27:09,782 --> 00:27:13,981
Speaker 2: but even reading what Emma has written about Bruce is

595
00:27:14,061 --> 00:27:16,982
Speaker 2: like when they went to the doctor to get that diagnosis.

596
00:27:17,462 --> 00:27:19,902
Speaker 2: It was like she was the only one in the room.

597
00:27:20,262 --> 00:27:24,381
Speaker 2: He didn't even acknowledge the diagnosis. So it's not like

598
00:27:24,502 --> 00:27:26,542
Speaker 2: you've got someone that you can discuss it with or

599
00:27:26,581 --> 00:27:29,942
Speaker 2: go what do we do next? You don't know what

600
00:27:30,022 --> 00:27:33,262
Speaker 2: that person wants and what they're thinking, and what their

601
00:27:33,302 --> 00:27:36,581
Speaker 2: needs and desires are because they've evolved so much.

602
00:27:36,422 --> 00:27:38,542
Speaker 3: And that's why there's such a vigorous debate amongst the

603
00:27:38,581 --> 00:27:41,022
Speaker 3: experts about how to treat them and what the best

604
00:27:41,061 --> 00:27:43,382
Speaker 3: thing to say is, Yeah, exactly.

605
00:27:43,782 --> 00:27:46,782
Speaker 1: After the break, there's a birth, a death, and a marriage.

606
00:27:47,782 --> 00:27:50,542
Speaker 1: Do you want daily outloud access? Why wouldn't you? We

607
00:27:50,661 --> 00:27:55,702
Speaker 1: dropped episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Muma MEA subscribers.

608
00:27:55,982 --> 00:27:57,661
Speaker 1: Follow the link in the show notes to get us

609
00:27:57,702 --> 00:28:00,222
Speaker 1: in your ears five days a week and a huge

610
00:28:00,262 --> 00:28:08,861
Speaker 1: thank you. If you're already a subscriber. You might have

611
00:28:08,942 --> 00:28:12,381
Speaker 1: heard on the new Is that Robert Redford died overnight.

612
00:28:12,581 --> 00:28:15,382
Speaker 1: He was eighty nine. I don't know if you are

613
00:28:15,502 --> 00:28:17,982
Speaker 1: very familiar with him as younger millennials.

614
00:28:18,381 --> 00:28:20,222
Speaker 2: My first thought was my nun would be really sad

615
00:28:20,222 --> 00:28:22,302
Speaker 2: about this, and then I remembered that my nan died

616
00:28:22,542 --> 00:28:24,982
Speaker 2: twenty years ago. But She talked about Robert Redford a lot.

617
00:28:25,022 --> 00:28:26,422
Speaker 2: He was originally in The Great Out.

618
00:28:26,861 --> 00:28:28,942
Speaker 1: She was kind of like the Leo of his generation.

619
00:28:29,182 --> 00:28:30,622
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw eighty nine.

620
00:28:30,702 --> 00:28:31,942
Speaker 1: I was like, that's young.

621
00:28:32,462 --> 00:28:36,422
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I thought the man gone before his time.

622
00:28:36,502 --> 00:28:37,302
Speaker 2: It feels young man.

623
00:28:37,341 --> 00:28:39,622
Speaker 1: I get him and Paul Newman a little bit mixed

624
00:28:39,661 --> 00:28:42,382
Speaker 1: up also Jed but he's Salah dressing Butch Cassidy and

625
00:28:42,422 --> 00:28:44,941
Speaker 1: the Sundance Kid the way we were and the sting

626
00:28:45,102 --> 00:28:46,382
Speaker 1: with some of the movies he was in, and then

627
00:28:46,382 --> 00:28:50,382
Speaker 1: he became a director, an acclaimed director, and he also

628
00:28:50,502 --> 00:28:53,182
Speaker 1: was the co founder of the Sundance Film Festival. Yeah,

629
00:28:53,462 --> 00:28:54,542
Speaker 1: so he seemed like a.

630
00:28:54,502 --> 00:28:58,221
Speaker 3: Really nice person, Like I was reading people, remember, everyone

631
00:28:58,222 --> 00:28:59,062
Speaker 3: said he was lovely.

632
00:28:59,782 --> 00:29:04,102
Speaker 1: You know who got married? Also reportedly recently it's Keanu

633
00:29:04,182 --> 00:29:06,622
Speaker 1: Reeves at the age of sixty one. I didn't know

634
00:29:06,661 --> 00:29:07,262
Speaker 1: they got married.

635
00:29:07,302 --> 00:29:08,382
Speaker 2: Yeah, I knew they were together.

636
00:29:08,742 --> 00:29:11,782
Speaker 1: What was interesting about this, You may remember we've spoken

637
00:29:11,782 --> 00:29:14,342
Speaker 1: about on the show before. There were pictures of Keanu

638
00:29:14,382 --> 00:29:18,302
Speaker 1: Reeves and his girlfriend Alexandra Grant. They've been together since

639
00:29:18,302 --> 00:29:21,782
Speaker 1: about twenty nineteen, and everyone was so excited because she

640
00:29:21,862 --> 00:29:25,461
Speaker 1: has gray hairs, and we were like, thank you Kianu.

641
00:29:25,902 --> 00:29:29,142
Speaker 1: She's only fifty two, so she's almost ten years younger

642
00:29:29,142 --> 00:29:32,102
Speaker 1: than him. Still, she's an artist. She's an artist, and

643
00:29:32,142 --> 00:29:33,862
Speaker 1: they work together for a long time. They were very

644
00:29:33,862 --> 00:29:37,022
Speaker 1: good friends and things turned romantic. About six years ago.

645
00:29:37,222 --> 00:29:39,742
Speaker 1: They reportedly got married in Europe over summer. They haven't

646
00:29:39,902 --> 00:29:43,181
Speaker 1: given too many details about it because Keiana's famously very private.

647
00:29:43,342 --> 00:29:46,502
Speaker 2: I read an article like the Absolute salivating over this

648
00:29:46,782 --> 00:29:49,102
Speaker 2: story for the last six or so years. Is just

649
00:29:49,182 --> 00:29:53,102
Speaker 2: like Keanu Reeves touches woman with gray hair, and Keanu

650
00:29:53,142 --> 00:29:55,742
Speaker 2: Reeves puts arm around grayhaired woman.

651
00:29:55,582 --> 00:29:57,262
Speaker 1: And I'm like, she's she's my age.

652
00:29:57,582 --> 00:30:01,382
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like they really seem excited that a grayhaired woman exists.

653
00:30:01,462 --> 00:30:03,862
Speaker 3: I bet she had a wedding dress with an asymmetric ham.

654
00:30:03,982 --> 00:30:05,822
Speaker 3: She's very conceptual in her style.

655
00:30:06,342 --> 00:30:07,182
Speaker 2: She's very cool.

656
00:30:07,342 --> 00:30:10,822
Speaker 1: Gen X's represent And the birth that I wanted to

657
00:30:10,862 --> 00:30:12,782
Speaker 1: tell you about is one that happened a year ago,

658
00:30:12,902 --> 00:30:15,262
Speaker 1: so it's not exactly breaking news, but you might know

659
00:30:15,542 --> 00:30:18,421
Speaker 1: that Margot Robbie had her first baby, a son, with

660
00:30:18,502 --> 00:30:22,262
Speaker 1: her husband Tom Ackley, who's also her producing partner. They

661
00:30:22,342 --> 00:30:24,662
Speaker 1: had their little boy, whose name they have not revealed,

662
00:30:24,782 --> 00:30:28,582
Speaker 1: October last year, so he'd be almost one. October could

663
00:30:28,582 --> 00:30:31,582
Speaker 1: be a good name. You could start that rumor. But

664
00:30:31,702 --> 00:30:34,222
Speaker 1: the reason that she's top of mind is that this

665
00:30:34,302 --> 00:30:37,502
Speaker 1: week you may have heard or seen some photos of

666
00:30:37,542 --> 00:30:40,102
Speaker 1: her at a premiere. She's hitting the red carpet for

667
00:30:40,182 --> 00:30:43,941
Speaker 1: the first time since her Barbie promotional tour in twenty

668
00:30:43,942 --> 00:30:46,701
Speaker 1: twenty three, and you really couldn't miss it because she

669
00:30:46,822 --> 00:30:50,382
Speaker 1: was pretty much nude. She's promoting this movie called A Big, Bold,

670
00:30:50,542 --> 00:30:55,262
Speaker 1: Beautiful Journey with Colin Farrell, and what was so striking

671
00:30:55,302 --> 00:30:58,302
Speaker 1: about the pictures A couple of things. They were in London,

672
00:30:58,742 --> 00:31:02,302
Speaker 1: it was the evening. There's Colin Farrell in a suit,

673
00:31:02,422 --> 00:31:05,462
Speaker 1: a full suit with a big trench coat over the top.

674
00:31:05,502 --> 00:31:06,902
Speaker 1: He looks very dapper, but.

675
00:31:07,182 --> 00:31:08,662
Speaker 2: He's looking very different seasons.

676
00:31:08,742 --> 00:31:12,302
Speaker 1: Yeah, she is in a completely see through dress. From

677
00:31:12,342 --> 00:31:14,222
Speaker 1: the back you can see her whole bum. She's wearing

678
00:31:14,222 --> 00:31:17,142
Speaker 1: a g string. It goes down to just above her bum.

679
00:31:17,342 --> 00:31:19,062
Speaker 2: Admits she'll bum amazing.

680
00:31:19,102 --> 00:31:21,262
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm not saying it's not that she doesn't look amazing,

681
00:31:21,302 --> 00:31:23,302
Speaker 1: And in the front she looks like completely nude. A

682
00:31:23,342 --> 00:31:25,782
Speaker 1: couple of nights later she went to another premiere, probably

683
00:31:25,782 --> 00:31:29,342
Speaker 1: in la and she was wearing another dress that was

684
00:31:29,382 --> 00:31:31,382
Speaker 1: sort of just like a little kind of like a

685
00:31:31,422 --> 00:31:34,262
Speaker 1: strapless imagine a strapless white swimsuit with just a few

686
00:31:34,302 --> 00:31:38,742
Speaker 1: pieces of black fabric. Again down no notes, a couple

687
00:31:38,782 --> 00:31:42,062
Speaker 1: of things interesting. She didn't used to dress like this.

688
00:31:42,382 --> 00:31:46,382
Speaker 1: So Margot Robbie has always had a phenomenal body. She's

689
00:31:46,502 --> 00:31:49,342
Speaker 1: one of the most beautiful women in the world. Everyone

690
00:31:49,422 --> 00:31:51,701
Speaker 1: knows that, but she's never shown a lot of flesh

691
00:31:51,782 --> 00:31:53,502
Speaker 1: on a red carpet. It's not really been her thing.

692
00:31:54,542 --> 00:31:56,302
Speaker 1: But the other person who was in a dress that

693
00:31:56,422 --> 00:31:58,102
Speaker 1: was almost nude this week, and you know, this is

694
00:31:58,142 --> 00:32:00,262
Speaker 1: my area of expertise. I'd like to do my PhD

695
00:32:00,302 --> 00:32:02,062
Speaker 1: and famous women wearing no pants.

696
00:32:02,102 --> 00:32:04,022
Speaker 2: You know you have to do an undergraduate degree before

697
00:32:04,062 --> 00:32:04,742
Speaker 2: you do a PhD.

698
00:32:04,902 --> 00:32:05,822
Speaker 1: I'll download one.

699
00:32:07,302 --> 00:32:10,782
Speaker 2: Amelia and I are you two to education.

700
00:32:11,942 --> 00:32:16,262
Speaker 1: Dakotah Johnson. She was going to a charity fundraiser for

701
00:32:16,342 --> 00:32:18,981
Speaker 1: the Caring Foundation, who it was to raise money for

702
00:32:19,062 --> 00:32:21,502
Speaker 1: women who are the victims of dramestic violence. And she

703
00:32:21,622 --> 00:32:24,142
Speaker 1: was wearing literally a black bra, black undies, and a

704
00:32:24,182 --> 00:32:26,421
Speaker 1: completely sheer black long dress.

705
00:32:26,502 --> 00:32:30,262
Speaker 3: Whenever I see women wearing visible underwear, I just automatically

706
00:32:30,302 --> 00:32:32,102
Speaker 3: screenshot it and send it to you because I know

707
00:32:32,222 --> 00:32:34,022
Speaker 3: that it will ruin your day reliably.

708
00:32:34,062 --> 00:32:36,501
Speaker 1: I'll get riled up now. I'm not going to get

709
00:32:36,542 --> 00:32:38,982
Speaker 1: riled up today. But what I thought was interesting about

710
00:32:39,022 --> 00:32:41,502
Speaker 1: both of these women is the idea that they've both

711
00:32:41,502 --> 00:32:44,102
Speaker 1: had big life changes recently. Margo's become a mother. This

712
00:32:44,142 --> 00:32:47,262
Speaker 1: is her first time out really publicly on a red

713
00:32:47,262 --> 00:32:50,302
Speaker 1: carpet since then. And Dakota Johnson also had a big

714
00:32:50,342 --> 00:32:52,461
Speaker 1: identity change she became single.

715
00:32:52,502 --> 00:32:56,382
Speaker 2: Oh wait, is this confirmed from Chris Martin. Yeah, I

716
00:32:56,422 --> 00:32:58,302
Speaker 2: didn't know this. This is brand new information.

717
00:32:58,462 --> 00:32:59,382
Speaker 1: I'm confirming it now.

718
00:32:59,422 --> 00:33:00,462
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.

719
00:33:00,782 --> 00:33:03,062
Speaker 1: And what's interesting to me is that both of these

720
00:33:03,102 --> 00:33:06,902
Speaker 1: women new dresses aren't new. No pants aren't new. They're

721
00:33:06,942 --> 00:33:09,662
Speaker 1: not even necessarily new for these women because Dakotah Johnson's

722
00:33:09,702 --> 00:33:11,302
Speaker 1: been doing it a couple of times since this room

723
00:33:11,342 --> 00:33:13,862
Speaker 1: had break up, which happened a few months ago. But

724
00:33:13,902 --> 00:33:16,862
Speaker 1: for my god, it's different. To me. It's reclaiming of identity.

725
00:33:17,382 --> 00:33:19,462
Speaker 1: After something big happens in your life, you want to

726
00:33:19,502 --> 00:33:23,382
Speaker 1: reclaim your identity, and it's reclaiming your identity by showing

727
00:33:23,542 --> 00:33:26,302
Speaker 1: the world that you have a hot body. In what

728
00:33:26,342 --> 00:33:28,062
Speaker 1: I would say is a pretty male gaysy way.

729
00:33:28,182 --> 00:33:30,582
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, no, no, no no. So it's a

730
00:33:30,582 --> 00:33:33,422
Speaker 2: relaunch of a kind. And I think that everyone does

731
00:33:33,422 --> 00:33:36,822
Speaker 2: a relaunch man, woman peacock, like we all do a res.

732
00:33:36,542 --> 00:33:41,182
Speaker 1: It's Chris Martin's relaunch. He's just I don't I think

733
00:33:41,182 --> 00:33:46,182
Speaker 1: this says an aggressively. My body is back. I've raised

734
00:33:46,302 --> 00:33:47,902
Speaker 1: all the signs that.

735
00:33:49,142 --> 00:33:51,782
Speaker 3: Chris Martin was walking around in his spitos because he'd

736
00:33:51,822 --> 00:33:53,142
Speaker 3: just broken up with Dakotas.

737
00:33:53,262 --> 00:33:56,582
Speaker 2: Someone did a relaunch recently, a man who just started dressing.

738
00:33:56,661 --> 00:33:58,982
Speaker 2: It was Ben Affleck after j Lo, and he got

739
00:33:58,982 --> 00:34:00,862
Speaker 2: his leather jacket on and he went full mid life.

740
00:34:01,182 --> 00:34:04,382
Speaker 1: But imagine if man after they became fathers walked red

741
00:34:04,422 --> 00:34:07,142
Speaker 1: carpets with no shirts.

742
00:34:08,262 --> 00:34:11,741
Speaker 2: Men's bodies quite literally in service for a minimum of

743
00:34:11,782 --> 00:34:17,341
Speaker 2: twelve months, right in service of the growth and sustaining life.

744
00:34:17,422 --> 00:34:19,542
Speaker 1: So it be That's exactly my point. It would be

745
00:34:19,582 --> 00:34:21,502
Speaker 1: easier for the man to do that because they didn't

746
00:34:21,502 --> 00:34:24,422
Speaker 1: have to actually carry and then possibly feed a baby.

747
00:34:24,462 --> 00:34:26,422
Speaker 2: But the thing about Margo, so she had the Barbie

748
00:34:26,422 --> 00:34:29,422
Speaker 2: premiere and then she was pregnant, she just had this baby.

749
00:34:30,181 --> 00:34:31,701
Speaker 2: There is a moment and I see it with so

750
00:34:31,781 --> 00:34:33,781
Speaker 2: many women who have just had a baby, and often

751
00:34:33,822 --> 00:34:36,222
Speaker 2: when you've finished breastfeeding, which we were just talking about,

752
00:34:36,502 --> 00:34:39,262
Speaker 2: where you get your body back. I don't mean literally,

753
00:34:39,342 --> 00:34:41,022
Speaker 2: I don't mean you fit into your old jeans. I

754
00:34:41,022 --> 00:34:43,261
Speaker 2: don't even mean that. It's just like the contours of

755
00:34:43,302 --> 00:34:45,022
Speaker 2: my body now belong to me, and I'm on a

756
00:34:45,022 --> 00:34:47,502
Speaker 2: red carpet. There's no one to touch, and all power

757
00:34:47,542 --> 00:34:50,102
Speaker 2: to her like I reckon that. That is one element

758
00:34:50,142 --> 00:34:52,701
Speaker 2: of why she's dressing like that. The other element is

759
00:34:52,741 --> 00:34:55,142
Speaker 2: that Margo Robbie is not choosing what she's wearing on

760
00:34:55,181 --> 00:34:56,741
Speaker 2: these red carpets.

761
00:34:55,942 --> 00:34:58,261
Speaker 1: That's she's got enormous power.

762
00:34:58,342 --> 00:35:02,582
Speaker 2: She's a no, she has one of the best stylistships.

763
00:35:01,942 --> 00:35:05,142
Speaker 1: She does and it's a decision. The celebrity always has

764
00:35:05,221 --> 00:35:07,821
Speaker 1: the last word because they're wearing the dress.

765
00:35:08,221 --> 00:35:10,901
Speaker 2: You think someone's telling Margo Robbie, I think that she's

766
00:35:10,942 --> 00:35:12,822
Speaker 2: showing up and she has been given a wardrobe.

767
00:35:12,822 --> 00:35:12,942
Speaker 3: Now.

768
00:35:12,982 --> 00:35:15,821
Speaker 2: The reason why she's dressing sexy, no, is that from

769
00:35:15,902 --> 00:35:20,062
Speaker 2: Barbie to Once upon a Time in Hollywood, everything from

770
00:35:20,102 --> 00:35:22,382
Speaker 2: like the clip in her hair to the bow on

771
00:35:22,422 --> 00:35:25,622
Speaker 2: her shoes is like all in theme with the film

772
00:35:25,661 --> 00:35:28,181
Speaker 2: so on Barbie. She was dressed as a doll the

773
00:35:28,422 --> 00:35:29,142
Speaker 2: entire premiere.

774
00:35:29,261 --> 00:35:32,982
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was an extraordinary collaboration between her and

775
00:35:32,982 --> 00:35:35,781
Speaker 1: Andrew maccamal is, her stylist, one of the most sought

776
00:35:35,822 --> 00:35:38,502
Speaker 1: after stylists in the world right and very famous stylists

777
00:35:38,502 --> 00:35:42,461
Speaker 1: like law Roachinzindia. It's very much a partnership and Mago Robbie.

778
00:35:42,502 --> 00:35:45,421
Speaker 1: The way these big tools work now because once upon

779
00:35:45,422 --> 00:35:47,102
Speaker 1: a time a celebrity would do the cover of a

780
00:35:47,382 --> 00:35:50,582
Speaker 1: magazine and go my post baby body and they'd pose. Now,

781
00:35:50,622 --> 00:35:53,542
Speaker 1: red carpets are that they don't need magazines anymore. So

782
00:35:53,582 --> 00:35:55,022
Speaker 1: what happens at the beginning of our press to her

783
00:35:55,062 --> 00:35:57,142
Speaker 1: is that they sit down, there's a mood board, they decide,

784
00:35:57,142 --> 00:35:58,542
Speaker 1: there's a whole lot of things. So it's like, we'll

785
00:35:58,622 --> 00:36:00,701
Speaker 1: use that for the La Premiere, will do this for

786
00:36:00,741 --> 00:36:03,982
Speaker 1: the blah blah. And so my point is that it's

787
00:36:04,022 --> 00:36:06,702
Speaker 1: a very deliberate choice. And I'm not criticizing that choice,

788
00:36:06,741 --> 00:36:10,422
Speaker 1: to be clear, but I'm saying I'm observing that in

789
00:36:10,502 --> 00:36:14,782
Speaker 1: our culture, and particularly in Hollywood, the way to say

790
00:36:14,902 --> 00:36:19,622
Speaker 1: I'm back baby is to have erased every sign of

791
00:36:19,661 --> 00:36:21,822
Speaker 1: your pregnancy from your body.

792
00:36:22,022 --> 00:36:25,462
Speaker 2: Okay, be hot, I disagree that that's what's going on,

793
00:36:25,542 --> 00:36:28,582
Speaker 2: because so she's working with that stylist for this press

794
00:36:28,661 --> 00:36:31,462
Speaker 2: run as well. And Tamara Davis, who's a fashion and

795
00:36:31,502 --> 00:36:34,221
Speaker 2: lifestyle writer here at Mummeya, posted something on Instagram the

796
00:36:34,261 --> 00:36:37,062
Speaker 2: other day I thought was very astute kind of theory

797
00:36:37,102 --> 00:36:40,062
Speaker 2: about what was going on, which is that this movie

798
00:36:40,542 --> 00:36:42,901
Speaker 2: was never going to be the blockbuster of Barbie, right.

799
00:36:43,062 --> 00:36:46,022
Speaker 2: It was never going to have the same vibe around it,

800
00:36:46,142 --> 00:36:49,502
Speaker 2: the same momentum. So if you're ever gonna get your

801
00:36:49,582 --> 00:36:51,741
Speaker 2: legs out, you're gonna get it out for this movie

802
00:36:51,741 --> 00:36:52,902
Speaker 2: because it needs your publicity.

803
00:36:52,902 --> 00:36:56,062
Speaker 1: Now, Okay, Jesse, You've just actually completely made my point.

804
00:36:56,342 --> 00:36:58,261
Speaker 2: I'm saying that this is not in service of look

805
00:36:58,261 --> 00:37:00,542
Speaker 2: at my post baby body. It's in service of this movie,

806
00:37:00,582 --> 00:37:04,902
Speaker 2: which the genre is that it is a romantic fantasy.

807
00:37:04,982 --> 00:37:06,902
Speaker 2: That's what she's dressing as a romantic fantasy.

808
00:37:06,982 --> 00:37:08,862
Speaker 1: She's working.

809
00:37:09,542 --> 00:37:13,062
Speaker 3: Not criticizing her either, but I feel a little bit

810
00:37:13,221 --> 00:37:18,261
Speaker 3: sad because it feels a little bit like reassuring us

811
00:37:18,582 --> 00:37:21,461
Speaker 3: that the baby's not going to change anything, that she's

812
00:37:21,542 --> 00:37:23,822
Speaker 3: still just as sexy and attracted.

813
00:37:26,342 --> 00:37:29,261
Speaker 1: Yes, I think that that is not an emotion that

814
00:37:29,302 --> 00:37:32,142
Speaker 1: we haven't all felt. Whether it's getting back into your genes,

815
00:37:32,181 --> 00:37:34,622
Speaker 1: it's somehow saying hey, I'm still here.

816
00:37:34,982 --> 00:37:37,542
Speaker 2: I think she's saying I am still a working woman.

817
00:37:37,582 --> 00:37:38,942
Speaker 2: She's got wathering heights coming up.

818
00:37:39,022 --> 00:37:41,702
Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm still a working woman. Here's my bum.

819
00:37:42,302 --> 00:37:45,662
Speaker 2: But it is consistent, it is thematically consistent. Wathering heights

820
00:37:45,661 --> 00:37:49,221
Speaker 2: will be a completely different wardrobe. This totally makes sense

821
00:37:49,221 --> 00:37:51,902
Speaker 2: with with what she's doing. If she was doing Inside

822
00:37:52,022 --> 00:37:55,902
Speaker 2: out too or some like animation, she wouldn't be wearing

823
00:37:55,902 --> 00:37:57,861
Speaker 2: these clothes. This is part of her job.

824
00:37:58,142 --> 00:38:01,102
Speaker 1: Can we not deconstruct the fact that her job and

825
00:38:01,142 --> 00:38:05,862
Speaker 1: getting attention in this economy involves the story Margo Robbie's

826
00:38:06,022 --> 00:38:09,261
Speaker 1: hottest body in the world. She's back baby, forget the

827
00:38:09,302 --> 00:38:12,982
Speaker 1: bab baby what baby? Well, Colin Farrell, who's in the

828
00:38:13,022 --> 00:38:16,022
Speaker 1: same movie, gets to dress and say, it's a gadget.

829
00:38:16,102 --> 00:38:18,582
Speaker 1: I looked up and it was thirteen degrees in lond.

830
00:38:18,502 --> 00:38:19,982
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can tell she was actually shaking when she

831
00:38:20,062 --> 00:38:23,301
Speaker 2: was freezing. This is always It happened with Wicked. It

832
00:38:23,302 --> 00:38:25,302
Speaker 2: happens with every press tool. Like they're still in character.

833
00:38:25,382 --> 00:38:27,741
Speaker 2: She's in character. She's wearing a character outfit. She's doing

834
00:38:27,741 --> 00:38:29,582
Speaker 2: her job, she's getting paid, all power to her.

835
00:38:29,822 --> 00:38:31,142
Speaker 1: Her character is naked.

836
00:38:31,422 --> 00:38:35,022
Speaker 2: Yeah, romantic fantasy. As if you don't say that and

837
00:38:35,102 --> 00:38:37,702
Speaker 2: go oh man, looking at Muga Robbie for two hours,

838
00:38:37,902 --> 00:38:38,622
Speaker 2: I feel like that.

839
00:38:38,862 --> 00:38:41,781
Speaker 3: I just think there's a level of anxiety revealed in

840
00:38:41,862 --> 00:38:44,221
Speaker 3: dressing like that, Like I still.

841
00:38:43,942 --> 00:38:46,062
Speaker 1: Want to be relevant, I still want to be here.

842
00:38:46,221 --> 00:38:48,382
Speaker 3: I still want to be the femfertale enge and you,

843
00:38:48,582 --> 00:38:51,542
Speaker 3: and it's like, yeah, Margot Robbie is not only is

844
00:38:51,582 --> 00:38:55,741
Speaker 3: she a stunningly successful actor, she's also an amazing producer.

845
00:38:55,862 --> 00:38:59,661
Speaker 3: She produced the Barbie movie, she's producing Wuthering Heights. Isn't

846
00:38:59,661 --> 00:39:02,022
Speaker 3: there a point at which she can get our attention

847
00:39:02,302 --> 00:39:03,342
Speaker 3: not through her body?

848
00:39:03,462 --> 00:39:06,261
Speaker 2: So okay, now that she's had a baby, does she

849
00:39:06,342 --> 00:39:07,782
Speaker 2: need to be wearing her moomoo?

850
00:39:08,022 --> 00:39:10,942
Speaker 1: That's what helds, That's what a little bonnet? Is that

851
00:39:10,982 --> 00:39:13,502
Speaker 1: what we want? No to me, it's I think it's

852
00:39:13,582 --> 00:39:17,542
Speaker 1: revealing of the system and revealing of the system in

853
00:39:17,582 --> 00:39:21,422
Speaker 1: which Margot Robbie works, which is I have to reassure

854
00:39:21,462 --> 00:39:25,182
Speaker 1: everybody that I'm not mumsy, that I'm not in any

855
00:39:25,221 --> 00:39:30,342
Speaker 1: way changed, that I'm even hotter than I was before

856
00:39:30,382 --> 00:39:33,181
Speaker 1: I had a baby, and everyone's going to say it's

857
00:39:33,181 --> 00:39:35,221
Speaker 1: her right to wear whatever she wants. Of course it is.

858
00:39:35,261 --> 00:39:38,781
Speaker 1: We're talking about the system that rewards I've got my

859
00:39:38,902 --> 00:39:41,862
Speaker 1: bum out, and it's not in the free way forward.

860
00:39:41,982 --> 00:39:45,022
Speaker 3: Like I would posit that Jennifer Lawrence recently had a

861
00:39:45,062 --> 00:39:48,181
Speaker 3: baby and then had a second baby in fairly quick succession,

862
00:39:48,741 --> 00:39:51,862
Speaker 3: did not go down this exact path. And it's surprising

863
00:39:51,942 --> 00:39:55,301
Speaker 3: to me because i'mlike Margot Robbie, Jennifer Lawrence isn't a

864
00:39:55,342 --> 00:39:56,781
Speaker 3: power broker in Hollywood.

865
00:39:56,781 --> 00:39:57,542
Speaker 1: Margot Robbie.

866
00:39:57,542 --> 00:39:59,182
Speaker 3: Now if she says I want to make a movie

867
00:39:59,181 --> 00:40:01,821
Speaker 3: of that book, that movie gets made and it's a hit.

868
00:40:02,102 --> 00:40:05,502
Speaker 3: Jennifer Lawrence doesn't have that power. And yet, interestingly did

869
00:40:05,622 --> 00:40:08,262
Speaker 3: choose a different path in terms of how she presented

870
00:40:08,302 --> 00:40:09,542
Speaker 3: herself after having a baby.

871
00:40:10,022 --> 00:40:12,422
Speaker 2: I think we've got a bit Pearl clutchy about mothers

872
00:40:12,462 --> 00:40:14,942
Speaker 2: who are still like, I'm sexy, look at my legs,

873
00:40:14,942 --> 00:40:17,062
Speaker 2: and you know what if she looks like that after

874
00:40:17,102 --> 00:40:18,741
Speaker 2: having a baby and she's done.

875
00:40:18,661 --> 00:40:20,462
Speaker 1: The movie and have to Kota.

876
00:40:21,102 --> 00:40:23,821
Speaker 2: I hadn't even seen that picture actually yet, but I

877
00:40:23,942 --> 00:40:25,901
Speaker 2: kind of love her. I think, yeah, great, I think

878
00:40:25,902 --> 00:40:28,341
Speaker 2: that she's hilarious. Red carpets are about attention, and then

879
00:40:28,342 --> 00:40:30,142
Speaker 2: we look at things the look you're being attention sticking

880
00:40:30,181 --> 00:40:31,821
Speaker 2: on the red conic where your job is too good.

881
00:40:32,661 --> 00:40:34,622
Speaker 1: I just think it's really interesting.

882
00:40:34,221 --> 00:40:37,421
Speaker 3: The way Colin's inspector gadget like I do. Come back

883
00:40:37,462 --> 00:40:40,741
Speaker 3: to that, like he is wearing the most covered up

884
00:40:40,781 --> 00:40:44,022
Speaker 3: outfit you could possibly wear, which is a trench.

885
00:40:44,422 --> 00:40:46,622
Speaker 1: So the marketing, what you're saying is the marketing of

886
00:40:46,661 --> 00:40:48,781
Speaker 1: a movie now evolves.

887
00:40:48,502 --> 00:40:51,702
Speaker 2: Around the quardrobe of the female start. Yes, that's exactly

888
00:40:51,701 --> 00:40:55,382
Speaker 2: what I progress. Before we go. I came across a

889
00:40:55,422 --> 00:41:00,181
Speaker 2: substack last night by Marina Cooley called seventeen household Habits

890
00:41:00,302 --> 00:41:04,062
Speaker 2: that clear mental clutter. And I'm always looking for ways

891
00:41:04,062 --> 00:41:06,902
Speaker 2: to drastically improve my life. On a Wednesday, I wanted

892
00:41:06,942 --> 00:41:09,341
Speaker 2: to know how can I rearrange my home, my life

893
00:41:09,382 --> 00:41:12,861
Speaker 2: so that there's no longer any stress. Well, she's got

894
00:41:12,862 --> 00:41:15,142
Speaker 2: some tips. Okay, do you want to hear some of them?

895
00:41:15,181 --> 00:41:17,982
Speaker 2: These are her tips for how we are going to

896
00:41:18,022 --> 00:41:21,942
Speaker 2: improve our lives. First, one exit zone by the door. Now,

897
00:41:22,022 --> 00:41:24,781
Speaker 2: an exit zone means that you have everything you would

898
00:41:24,822 --> 00:41:27,701
Speaker 2: ever need before walking out the door. So right near

899
00:41:27,741 --> 00:41:31,102
Speaker 2: the door you need either a cabinet or a cupboard

900
00:41:31,661 --> 00:41:36,301
Speaker 2: or something that has your sonnies a piece off exactly,

901
00:41:36,661 --> 00:41:43,422
Speaker 2: hats everything you need, second barrel exactly, but exactly.

902
00:41:44,062 --> 00:41:47,622
Speaker 1: People have that, like the keys and stuff near the door, right.

903
00:41:47,661 --> 00:41:50,741
Speaker 2: Keys, yes, but we have only recently had like a

904
00:41:50,781 --> 00:41:53,142
Speaker 2: cupboard near the door that has like my hat and

905
00:41:53,181 --> 00:41:53,661
Speaker 2: stuff in it.

906
00:41:53,741 --> 00:41:56,862
Speaker 1: God, it's life. Change shoes inside your house.

907
00:41:57,102 --> 00:41:59,701
Speaker 2: I sometimes do, but Luca doesn't like it. And so

908
00:42:00,181 --> 00:42:02,421
Speaker 2: is there a collection of shoes there out the front door?

909
00:42:02,502 --> 00:42:02,701
Speaker 3: Yeah?

910
00:42:02,781 --> 00:42:07,302
Speaker 1: Yeah, Louca likes that. It'd be barefoot and maybe pregnant.

911
00:42:08,942 --> 00:42:12,942
Speaker 2: Second thing, always buy in duplicates. So if you know

912
00:42:13,022 --> 00:42:15,622
Speaker 2: you're going to consistently use something, you're out of hand soap,

913
00:42:15,661 --> 00:42:19,221
Speaker 2: you're out of detergent, you're around your laundry stuff. You're

914
00:42:19,221 --> 00:42:21,381
Speaker 2: not buying one, you're buying two. You're going to use it.

915
00:42:21,382 --> 00:42:23,301
Speaker 2: It's not going to expire. That's the rule.

916
00:42:23,462 --> 00:42:23,582
Speaker 1: Right.

917
00:42:23,781 --> 00:42:27,342
Speaker 2: Expensive, It is expensive, but you're gonna buy it anyway,

918
00:42:27,462 --> 00:42:28,622
Speaker 2: right like always.

919
00:42:28,422 --> 00:42:30,582
Speaker 1: Everybody I'm just going to say, not everybody has because

920
00:42:30,582 --> 00:42:32,221
Speaker 1: he leaves. Not everybody's got that's their cash.

921
00:42:32,302 --> 00:42:36,342
Speaker 2: Keep going, all right, it's the latest and privilege. Okay,

922
00:42:36,382 --> 00:42:38,981
Speaker 2: here's another one put the house to bed, so every

923
00:42:39,102 --> 00:42:41,901
Speaker 2: night you have to do a close down where you like,

924
00:42:42,022 --> 00:42:45,381
Speaker 2: everything goes away so that in the morning you come

925
00:42:45,422 --> 00:42:46,221
Speaker 2: and have a look and you go.

926
00:42:46,422 --> 00:42:49,022
Speaker 1: Very important to me, okay, is the rule that the

927
00:42:49,102 --> 00:42:52,542
Speaker 1: last person who goes to bed is responsible for the

928
00:42:52,582 --> 00:42:53,181
Speaker 1: closed down.

929
00:42:53,701 --> 00:42:56,661
Speaker 2: No, that's too much pressure. I think that everyone is

930
00:42:56,701 --> 00:42:59,102
Speaker 2: doing closed down. It's like a when I worked at

931
00:42:59,102 --> 00:43:01,942
Speaker 2: a bar and you were doing the night shift and

932
00:43:01,942 --> 00:43:04,022
Speaker 2: everyone would go, all right, we're closing everything down. I

933
00:43:04,022 --> 00:43:05,902
Speaker 2: think there's got to be like a five to ten minute.

934
00:43:05,982 --> 00:43:07,982
Speaker 1: The problem is if you live in a house, most

935
00:43:08,022 --> 00:43:10,421
Speaker 1: people have very different sort of schedule. So someone might

936
00:43:10,502 --> 00:43:13,261
Speaker 1: go into their room to witch movie or whatever, play

937
00:43:13,261 --> 00:43:17,502
Speaker 1: their vibrator earlier than oh my god, so you never

938
00:43:17,582 --> 00:43:20,782
Speaker 1: know people might be coming and going, so not everyone's

939
00:43:20,781 --> 00:43:23,582
Speaker 1: always together to close down, and you can't close down

940
00:43:23,622 --> 00:43:25,181
Speaker 1: at six. Well, let's be real.

941
00:43:25,261 --> 00:43:26,701
Speaker 3: The person who does the closed down is the person

942
00:43:26,741 --> 00:43:28,221
Speaker 3: who cares about doing the closed down.

943
00:43:28,582 --> 00:43:30,502
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly right, Thank god, it's not me.

944
00:43:30,942 --> 00:43:34,062
Speaker 2: Okay. Here's my other one. A two week meal loop.

945
00:43:34,261 --> 00:43:37,422
Speaker 2: So that means that you have ten weekly dinners same

946
00:43:37,462 --> 00:43:40,341
Speaker 2: ones for those two weeks, and then you just have

947
00:43:40,462 --> 00:43:42,821
Speaker 2: them on repeat. My shoe is I can't think of

948
00:43:42,862 --> 00:43:43,382
Speaker 2: ten dinners.

949
00:43:43,502 --> 00:43:45,502
Speaker 3: And my issue with these tips is they really went

950
00:43:45,542 --> 00:43:48,582
Speaker 3: off the rails. They started getting really ridiculous some of

951
00:43:48,622 --> 00:43:51,542
Speaker 3: the hips, and I feel like household hags always end

952
00:43:51,622 --> 00:43:53,901
Speaker 3: up there. She started talking about how she has some

953
00:43:53,942 --> 00:43:56,661
Speaker 3: fancy electronic gadget that puts everyone's schedule.

954
00:43:56,942 --> 00:43:57,102
Speaker 1: Yeah.

955
00:43:57,221 --> 00:43:59,701
Speaker 2: I was like, no, no, no, no, no affiliate link.

956
00:43:59,942 --> 00:44:00,822
Speaker 1: Yeah.

957
00:44:00,862 --> 00:44:03,861
Speaker 2: And she also had once a year. You're like, oh,

958
00:44:03,942 --> 00:44:06,142
Speaker 2: once a year you need to sit down with your family, yes,

959
00:44:06,181 --> 00:44:08,781
Speaker 2: including all your children and have what she calls a

960
00:44:08,862 --> 00:44:13,821
Speaker 2: yearly fine out summit where you talk about things like goals, budgets, savings.

961
00:44:14,022 --> 00:44:16,062
Speaker 1: What do you think of that? Well? I tried to

962
00:44:16,382 --> 00:44:18,701
Speaker 1: organize a Zoom meeting the other day, as you know, Jesse,

963
00:44:18,822 --> 00:44:21,982
Speaker 1: because you're invited. It didn't really attend in very family

964
00:44:22,062 --> 00:44:24,422
Speaker 1: meeting I did. I said, guys, family Zoom because we

965
00:44:24,462 --> 00:44:26,701
Speaker 1: had to discuss arrangements for the dogs when I was

966
00:44:26,942 --> 00:44:31,342
Speaker 1: beeway and just howses and various things, and the family

967
00:44:31,422 --> 00:44:32,342
Speaker 1: wasn't very supportive.

968
00:44:32,462 --> 00:44:34,741
Speaker 2: A highlight was when Luca thought the call was over

969
00:44:34,862 --> 00:44:37,022
Speaker 2: and he said, that was an effing waste of time.

970
00:44:37,181 --> 00:44:40,741
Speaker 1: And I'm still there I still still there, do you

971
00:44:40,781 --> 00:44:42,542
Speaker 1: know what I mean? And also one of my children

972
00:44:42,542 --> 00:44:45,462
Speaker 1: that will remain nameless, Remy just kept making himself like

973
00:44:45,502 --> 00:44:47,221
Speaker 1: into a watermelon or into.

974
00:44:46,982 --> 00:44:48,782
Speaker 2: A cash that's your finance summit.

975
00:44:48,822 --> 00:44:49,422
Speaker 1: That was funny.

976
00:44:49,982 --> 00:44:51,861
Speaker 2: A big thank you to all of you the out

977
00:44:51,902 --> 00:44:55,181
Speaker 2: louders for listening to today's show and our fabulous team

978
00:44:55,422 --> 00:44:58,622
Speaker 2: for putting this show together. And do not forget you

979
00:44:58,622 --> 00:45:00,741
Speaker 2: can watch us on YouTube. Mayor has a spark this

980
00:45:00,822 --> 00:45:02,102
Speaker 2: show and she'd like you to see it.

981
00:45:02,142 --> 00:45:04,022
Speaker 1: I do, And I'm going to be here all week.

982
00:45:04,181 --> 00:45:06,142
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're going to join us for I'm.

983
00:45:06,102 --> 00:45:08,022
Speaker 1: Having a nice time. Thanks for having me, Oh my

984
00:45:08,062 --> 00:45:08,941
Speaker 1: goodness being great.

985
00:45:09,221 --> 00:45:11,382
Speaker 2: We will be back in your ears tomorrow.

986
00:45:11,422 --> 00:45:12,182
Speaker 1: Bye bye.

987
00:45:13,062 --> 00:45:15,582
Speaker 2: Shout out to any Mom and me A subscribers listening.

988
00:45:15,822 --> 00:45:17,982
Speaker 2: If you love the show and you want to support us,

989
00:45:18,221 --> 00:45:20,702
Speaker 2: subscribing to Mom and Me I is the very best

990
00:45:20,741 --> 00:45:23,622
Speaker 2: way to do so. There's a link in the episode description.