Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia. Out loud. It's what women are actually talking
Speaker 2: about on Monday, the sixth of September. I'm Holly Wayne right.
Speaker 3: I think it's the eighth.
Speaker 4: Shit.
Speaker 2: I was trying to look up now that we make
Speaker 2: this podcast also for video, and I never know what
Speaker 2: David is. I would be terrible in one of those
Speaker 2: cognitive tests where people are like, what day is it, Holly?
Speaker 2: What date is it? Holly? No idea, no idea.
Speaker 3: Well, the only reason I know is because of something
Speaker 3: I'm bringing to the show today. But I have looked
Speaker 3: into the data significance. But it is, in fact the eighth.
Speaker 2: She's right, She's right, out louders, this is what women
Speaker 2: are actually talking about, not two days ago, but today,
Speaker 2: on Monday, the eighth of September. And I am Holly Wayne.
Speaker 3: Right, I'm Jesse Stevens, and I am Amelia Last.
Speaker 2: And here is what has made our agenda today. I
Speaker 2: know you knew I was going to talk about this,
Speaker 2: the hair change that swallowed your weekend group chats, I
Speaker 2: have a special royal roundup for you, and yes it
Speaker 2: does include Princess Kate.
Speaker 3: Plus Australian wellness figure Pete Evans has returned and why
Speaker 3: does it feel like he is now a man who
Speaker 3: has truly met his.
Speaker 4: Moment and you're doing small talk wrong. I've learned about
Speaker 4: a new theory about how.
Speaker 1: To fix this.
Speaker 3: But first, in case you missed it, early this morning,
Speaker 3: a total lunar eclipse was visible in much of the world.
Speaker 3: Who got up to see it, ladies not. I think
Speaker 3: it was like three point thirty. It was really I
Speaker 3: saw the.
Speaker 2: Moon outside last night was very impressive. Yeah, that was
Speaker 2: the and I was like, that's enough, that's enough now.
Speaker 2: But then I started getting texts from people saying you
Speaker 2: must go crystals.
Speaker 1: Out, you know.
Speaker 3: I was in Canada one night and they were like,
Speaker 3: you know there's going to be the what do you
Speaker 3: call them, the fancy lights, normal lights the middle last night.
Speaker 3: All we have to do is at one o'clock go
Speaker 3: and look at them. And I was like, that's too warm.
Speaker 4: Did you see that there's this new add out for
Speaker 4: Tourism Australia that's been playing in China, which features the
Speaker 4: Southern lights in Tasmania. No, the only problem is they're
Speaker 4: basically impossible to see and had to be photoshopped in,
Speaker 4: so they are under all sorts of criticism.
Speaker 3: Maybe a little bit. I are interesting. Well, this moon
Speaker 3: really happened. The moon passed through the Earth's shadow, which
Speaker 3: produced a deep red hue, hence why it is called
Speaker 3: the blood moon.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 3: But the real question is what does the pretty moon
Speaker 3: say about me in my life? That's what everyone is asking.
Speaker 3: Does it mark endings or beginnings or significant shifts? Or
Speaker 3: should I be manifesting or reflecting?
Speaker 4: And what does it mean for my period? Because I
Speaker 4: know the moon's linked to my period in some way.
Speaker 4: So true.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that sounds like a superperio. That sounds bad.
Speaker 3: Eclipses are cosmic plot twists in our lives. Obviously, they
Speaker 3: accelerate change and they dissolve anything outdated. Be ready, be
Speaker 3: prepared for some revelations, because they're coming. Be ready to
Speaker 3: be led in a direction your soul wants you to go.
Speaker 3: There's something about alignment with your life's truest path. But
Speaker 3: here is some practical advice that we must follow.
Speaker 2: Do you think that's for like this week now that
Speaker 2: the moon has happened, So like, don't be surprised if
Speaker 2: things get a bit weird this week.
Speaker 3: Exactly, it's going to be a bit chaotic, a bit messy,
Speaker 3: but in a good way.
Speaker 2: I don't know what.
Speaker 3: That's your pads, yeah, exactly right. Yeah, and your period
Speaker 3: undeas maybe some period genes. If something is leaving your life,
Speaker 3: don't chase it. That's if you've got someone who, like
Speaker 3: you're in the middle of a breakup, or something's going
Speaker 3: wrong at work and you feel like you're meant to
Speaker 3: let something go, You're meant to let it go.
Speaker 2: That's so weird because I was driving in this morning
Speaker 2: and I was like, let go, let go see and
Speaker 2: I wasn't.
Speaker 3: It was the blood it was the blood moon whispering
Speaker 3: to you. Also, if you were planning on manifesting, don't manifesting.
Speaker 3: Our job is too surrender, which I feel is lazier
Speaker 3: and it's just more of a vibe. The instruction is
Speaker 3: that we're not meant to do anything. We're just meant
Speaker 3: to sit in like this, let the universe do what
Speaker 3: it's meant to do. You're also the other thing you
Speaker 3: meant to do is look through your photos from last
Speaker 3: September because something significant happened and there's been like a
Speaker 3: full circle thing, so I would do it. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: that's when I got my THERMOMX. No, yeah, it is.
Speaker 3: It is when I got my THERMOMX. So I feel
Speaker 3: like that was a beginning.
Speaker 2: And then she discovered vegetables. Yeah, and then there was
Speaker 2: no stopping.
Speaker 3: Us exactly exactly, and now I am basically Pete Evans.
Speaker 2: So that's all I wish later.
Speaker 3: That is all my blood moon update.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I've immediately got to go and look at
Speaker 2: last September's photos. Maybe we can put something on social Yeah,
Speaker 2: exactly right, friends, I was wrong. You know, I don't
Speaker 2: like to admit it. You know, I don't like to
Speaker 2: admit being wrong, but I was really really wrong about
Speaker 2: something very important that had something to do with the
Speaker 2: royal person's hair color. Now you know I was going
Speaker 2: to talk about this. It's my royal round up for
Speaker 2: the day. A princess has changed her hair and I
Speaker 2: have to deliver a mere culpa because just a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks ago on the show, the first time there
Speaker 2: was an image of Princess Catherine, Princess of Wales through
Speaker 2: a car window a couple of weeks ago that made
Speaker 2: it appear like her hair was sort of yellowish.
Speaker 3: Honey honey blonde.
Speaker 2: Yes, And it was all over the Daily Mail and everything,
Speaker 2: and everyone was saying, oh my God. And I confidently
Speaker 2: said on this show now, I can't really explain to
Speaker 2: you how I know, deep in my soul she did
Speaker 2: not dye her hair blonde. Princess Catherine is no more
Speaker 2: allowed to dye her hair blonde than she is to
Speaker 2: pick her undie's out of her bomb.
Speaker 3: But I saw those pictures of her in the limousine
Speaker 3: or something, and they think that it's blonde. Is it
Speaker 3: just light? The lighting?
Speaker 2: It's a pat picture right through a car window that
Speaker 2: looks like she's gone proper blonde blonde. But a strategic
Speaker 2: leak has already been placed with the Daily Mail that
Speaker 2: says this is just yacht hair. She has spent the
Speaker 2: summer in Greece and she's slowly been lightening her brown
Speaker 2: from chestnut to more caramelli and there's just a bit
Speaker 2: of summer sun on it. But Diana was blonde, yeah,
Speaker 2: but she didn't start off brunette.
Speaker 3: Okay, So it's a royal rule that you can't go
Speaker 3: from brunette.
Speaker 2: Well, I just think it's just very unlikely to have
Speaker 2: such a dramatic hair chakee well until now, right, So
Speaker 2: I was very very wrong because, as everybody listening to
Speaker 2: this knows, on Friday Thursday, their time, she and William
Speaker 2: went to an event I think they were Oh yes,
Speaker 2: they were looking at the newly renovated gardens outside the
Speaker 2: Natural History Museum in London, because that's the kind of
Speaker 2: fun shit that is going to do. And all anyone
Speaker 2: wanted to talk about was the fact that she had
Speaker 2: blonde hair, big hair, the fonty hair, and the internet
Speaker 2: went into meltdown. Yes, what did you two think when
Speaker 2: you first saw it? I'm going to get to in
Speaker 2: a minute to what people were saying, But what did
Speaker 2: you two think?
Speaker 3: Definitely drastic change, and there was a lot of andy
Speaker 3: going around with the images, and a lot of people
Speaker 3: were speculating about wig or extensions or topper all that
Speaker 3: kind of stuff. I felt slightly uncomfortable with some of
Speaker 3: the discourse, although I went, yeah, she probably does have
Speaker 3: some sort of like topper, which is sort of not
Speaker 3: a wig but additional hair.
Speaker 2: Right, Obviously this is a sensitive topic and we're going
Speaker 2: to put this on the table because, as we know,
Speaker 2: in January this year, Princess Catherine said that she was
Speaker 2: in remission from cancer and she had had chemotherapy treatment
Speaker 2: last year, and she has spoken publicly about how She
Speaker 2: called it a roller coaster. She said it was brutal.
Speaker 2: She says that the adjustment to a post treatment life
Speaker 2: has been really difficult, which is something that very many women,
Speaker 2: well people can relate to. And there's no question that obviously,
Speaker 2: the issues around hair with cancer treatment are very sensitive.
Speaker 2: She never appeared to lose her hair, of course, but
Speaker 2: we don't know and nor should we know, what's been
Speaker 2: going on. So there's obviously a sensitivity around discussing this,
Speaker 2: which feels a bit icky. But then on the other hand,
Speaker 2: there is no question that often what a royal or
Speaker 2: We've talked about this with other public figures like politicians,
Speaker 2: with their appearance, they're often trying to have as little
Speaker 2: commentary as possible, like I just look the same every
Speaker 2: time you see me. I'm wearing very boring things. I'm
Speaker 2: not doing you know, I'm not doing this, I'm not
Speaker 2: doing that. I don't want to attract any commentary. And
Speaker 2: this was a big shift, so Kate was not doing
Speaker 2: that with this. Some of the commentary has obviously been
Speaker 2: very icky around it because it hasn't been very complimentary.
Speaker 2: But Amelia, do you think it's fair game for conversation?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think that was really well put, Holly.
Speaker 4: And a lot of the debate that was happening in
Speaker 4: my group chats was about whether or not it was
Speaker 4: a wig. And what I found helpful was someone who
Speaker 4: did some actual reporting on this, and that was Caitlin Colemore,
Speaker 4: who's a hairstylist that Laney gossip called up and this
Speaker 4: was in Laney's newslet of The Squawk, and Caitlin Colemore's
Speaker 4: assessment was that these were extensions, they were not a wig.
Speaker 4: And the reason she said that is because there was
Speaker 4: no lace front visible, so it was Kate's actual hair
Speaker 4: on top, the new blonde hair color on top. And
Speaker 4: then the issue is that the extensions that have been
Speaker 4: clipped underneath had not been executed well, meaning they hadn't
Speaker 4: been brushed through in a way that made them look seamless.
Speaker 4: Now Laney asks the question, and we all know that
Speaker 4: Laney is an expert on the signals that celebrities and
Speaker 4: public figures send in terms of things like their appearance.
Speaker 4: She makes the point that Kate is the future Queen
Speaker 4: of England.
Speaker 1: She has plenty of resources, she has very skilled people
Speaker 1: working with her.
Speaker 4: So the question is why did they not give their
Speaker 4: a game on this really important occasion for someone who's
Speaker 4: going through a lot. And my personal theory on this
Speaker 4: is that I wonder if Kate doesn't want to remind
Speaker 4: us that she's going through a lot behind the scenes
Speaker 4: that we don't know about. In addition to her recovery
Speaker 4: from cancer, there may be other things happening too, and
Speaker 4: it's just a reminder that we don't always know everything
Speaker 4: that's happening in her life, and maybe she wants to
Speaker 4: remind us that she's got more important things to think
Speaker 4: about right now than making sure that her hair is
Speaker 4: executed perfectly.
Speaker 2: This is my theory, as much as it's in any
Speaker 2: way okay for a grown woman to have a theory
Speaker 2: about another grown woman's hair. A while ago, you might
Speaker 2: remember that Kate's press office said, and then sort of backtracked,
Speaker 2: that they weren't going to talk about her clothes anymore.
Speaker 2: Do you remember that I said that it was always
Speaker 2: very standard that you would release the details of what
Speaker 2: a princess or a senior royal was wearing, like what
Speaker 2: designers she's wearing, Da da, Da da, And they kind
Speaker 2: of said, we're going to stop doing that. Then they
Speaker 2: backtracked on it a little bit because there was an
Speaker 2: outcry from people who were very upset about it. But
Speaker 2: a lot of women who've gone through something as serious
Speaker 2: and life altering as Kate has over the past year
Speaker 2: or two come out with realigned priorities, And I sort
Speaker 2: of wonder if Kate is just jack of being the
Speaker 2: perfectly poised, quafft princess at all times and is kind
Speaker 2: of like, all right, so the hair isn't perfect today.
Speaker 2: I don't give a shit.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: I haven't done a million things to my face that
Speaker 2: people think I should be doing. I'm wearing clothes I
Speaker 2: was wearing six months ago, which is something she's always done.
Speaker 2: For a start, she's always reworn clothes and things. She's
Speaker 2: kind of going, who gives a shit. I want to
Speaker 2: be here to support causes I care about, talk about
Speaker 2: issues that matter. But the problem is that's all we
Speaker 2: all care about. And when I say we, I don't
Speaker 2: necessarily mean us. But you know, that's all the public
Speaker 2: cares about when it comes to a princess, so it's
Speaker 2: kind of it must be very frustrating if she's like,
Speaker 2: I want to send a message that who cares if
Speaker 2: I didn't brush my hair perfectly? But then that goes
Speaker 2: around the world.
Speaker 4: To extend that theory a little further, I think we
Speaker 4: should remember that William is currently going through a kind
Speaker 4: of renegotiation of what it means to be a royal
Speaker 4: and how many engagements he should have each year. There
Speaker 4: was actually some reporting in Tatler last month that Princess Anne,
Speaker 4: who was seventy five now and who has always done
Speaker 4: the most engagements of anyone in the royal family, is
Speaker 4: annoyed at William. She says he is not doing enough
Speaker 4: engagements and let me get the numbers right here. In
Speaker 4: the last year she did four hundred and seventy four
Speaker 4: engagement oh my god, which is mind boggling when you
Speaker 4: think about it.
Speaker 2: And I talked about this list in his book about
Speaker 2: how when it comes out every the list that Amilia
Speaker 2: is talking about, the royals will get really shitty with
Speaker 2: each other.
Speaker 4: And AD's always at the top. William last year did
Speaker 4: one hundred and thirty five. Now, obviously it was a
Speaker 4: hugely tough year for his.
Speaker 3: Father and wife. Both were dealing with cancer diagnosis.
Speaker 4: Yes, but also more generally, he and Kate have talked
Speaker 4: about for a long time about how they want to
Speaker 4: really focus on the early years of their children's lives
Speaker 4: and give them the kind of care and attention that
Speaker 4: frankly William did not get. They believe that that will
Speaker 4: set them up best for a life in the public eye.
Speaker 4: So this is part of also a renegotiation of what
Speaker 4: it means to be royal, how often should you be
Speaker 4: seen in public? And I think you've got to see
Speaker 4: this hair change as part of that overall renegotiation.
Speaker 3: I wonder if too, I've heard people talk about when
Speaker 3: something really dramatic happens in your life, whether that's a
Speaker 3: diagnosis or a loss that can't necessarily be seen from
Speaker 3: the outside, sometimes you want a visual marker that you've changed.
Speaker 3: So it's the classic getting a fringe after a breakup
Speaker 3: in terms of I don't feel the same anymore. So
Speaker 3: I can completely understand how Kate feels like a totally
Speaker 3: different person if it has literally impacted her hair, which
Speaker 3: I mean, it probably has even you know, that sort
Speaker 3: of of treatment, it would make sense. I would think
Speaker 3: that if you're in the public eye, and even for
Speaker 3: the sake of getting ready more quickly, I would think
Speaker 3: that having extensions or top of the pieces something you
Speaker 3: do all the time. And the other thing that I've
Speaker 3: heard a few hairdressers say is that for women over forty,
Speaker 3: you often see them go to that exact color. And
Speaker 3: the reason they go to that exact color is because
Speaker 3: you don't need to cover grays as much. If you
Speaker 3: have dark brown hair and you're starting to get little grays,
Speaker 3: it's every two weeks you're having to cover them and exactly,
Speaker 3: and so you go to that and you're able to
Speaker 3: kind of mix it in a little bit more So
Speaker 3: that kind of made.
Speaker 2: Sense too out loud as prepare for much Kate hairwatch
Speaker 2: because then on Sunday she was out watching our Wallaroos
Speaker 2: get smashed by the English actually and the rugby and
Speaker 2: it looked like she was brunette again. But then the
Speaker 2: video in the change room with different lighting, Oh, look
Speaker 2: like she was blood again. Brown blood, brown blood. We've
Speaker 2: got whiplash. So just I think we all need a
Speaker 2: chill PILLLP.
Speaker 3: I think as a culture too, there's something about wigs,
Speaker 3: because there is this obsession with men and wigs. So
Speaker 3: Harry styles. There have been rumors for years about his
Speaker 3: hair loss. Yes, about his hair loss. It's all the
Speaker 3: f one. There are certain players where it's like he
Speaker 3: has a topper or whatever. There are like Instagram accounts
Speaker 3: dedicated to it, and I think it's it's almost been
Speaker 3: coded or read. Is this thing about honesty or transparency,
Speaker 3: like that they're being somehow dishonest. Harry has had to
Speaker 3: address it publicly. Yeah, there's this idea that people are
Speaker 3: kind of fooling us, which I think is really unfair
Speaker 3: because you go, how many ways do we all change
Speaker 3: our appearance before we leave the house, But wigs is
Speaker 3: just this kind of other.
Speaker 1: I think that's a really good point.
Speaker 4: And I think that's actually also changing a little bit too,
Speaker 4: because just recently John Cena came out and said that
Speaker 4: when he was losing hair, he got hair transplants and
Speaker 4: then his Hollywood career took off again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's big business, the hair transplants. Oh, which brings
Speaker 2: me in a nice segway to my friend Prince Harry,
Speaker 2: who I am convinced has had a hair transplant, but
Speaker 2: that's just my theory. Nothing to see him move along.
Speaker 2: And we all know I was wrong about Kate's blonde,
Speaker 2: so you never know. Anyway, a little bit of Harry
Speaker 2: gossip for my Royal roundup. Watch this week what happens
Speaker 2: in England with Hazard because he's there right and this
Speaker 2: is significant because this is the first time that Prince
Speaker 2: Harry has been back to Britain since he famously lost
Speaker 2: that court case you know where he said that he
Speaker 2: wanted to automatically get the highest level of protection from
Speaker 2: the British police when every time he went to Britain
Speaker 2: and he lost that case and he was really mad
Speaker 2: about it, and he went on the BBC and sprayed
Speaker 2: basically and pretty much accused his family of not caring
Speaker 2: whether he died when he was on their soil.
Speaker 1: And it cost him millions, to cost him millions.
Speaker 2: It was not good. He was going nuclear about it. Anyway,
Speaker 2: he's back and what's interesting is that he's gone back
Speaker 2: for a charity function also the anniversary of the Queen's death.
Speaker 2: But he has gone by for a charity function tonight London,
Speaker 2: time for a charity that his sport's called Well Child.
Speaker 2: He went to that last year too. He's also going
Speaker 2: to another children's charity event where he's expected to announce
Speaker 2: a big donation to this charity in another part of England.
Speaker 2: But what's interesting is all the leaks that are coming
Speaker 2: out clearly from his people, because they're in People magazine
Speaker 2: and everything, are saying Harry is so excited to be there,
Speaker 2: He's going to make the most of it, He's going
Speaker 2: to have fun. They are clearly trying to change the
Speaker 2: tune from sad Harry feeling unloved and unwelcome to happy
Speaker 2: Harry can't wait to be back. But everyone is saying
Speaker 2: is he going to see his dad? It is generally
Speaker 2: believed that he has not seen Charles since February twenty
Speaker 2: twenty four.
Speaker 4: Well, the league's coming out on the other side too,
Speaker 4: because in the Telegraph, which I believe is commonly referred
Speaker 4: to as the Tory Graph because it's quite conservative and
Speaker 4: more royal family and line establishment, there was an article
Speaker 4: saying that he's absolutely not going to meet with Charles,
Speaker 4: and he's certainly not going to meet with William.
Speaker 1: That's not Willy on.
Speaker 4: The Pale, but also not Charles and also make the
Speaker 4: point that since Center Barlay, that charity that he started,
Speaker 4: had the bullying scandal, he's really been casting about and
Speaker 4: he wants to have a kind of royal proxy role
Speaker 4: where he can show up at charities and he can
Speaker 4: do the good works. But Center Barlay's kind of imploded
Speaker 4: on him, and so there's a feeling with this visit
Speaker 4: that he's kind of casting about something new.
Speaker 2: It'd be really sad if he doesn't go and have
Speaker 2: a pop in with King Charle, I know.
Speaker 3: Especially since how much he's been expressing that he wants to.
Speaker 3: In a moment, Australian wellness figure Pete Evans has returned
Speaker 3: and we want to unpack what role he is playing
Speaker 3: in the culture now. Pete Evans, the fifty two year
Speaker 3: old former television chef he used to be on My
Speaker 3: Kitchen Rolls, made a rare public appearance earlier this month
Speaker 3: on a podcast called Get Harder. He was back on
Speaker 3: my Instagram.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all over my socials.
Speaker 1: Yeah to subscribe to the Get Harder podcast.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: No, I thought that there was probably a side of
Speaker 3: Instagram where Pete Evans still was because I knew he'd
Speaker 3: had his account reactivated, but I hadn't seen him before
Speaker 3: we get to any of that, just to refresh. Evans
Speaker 3: was an acclaimed author and TV personality whose claims about
Speaker 3: health and wellness became increasingly outlandish. So first there was
Speaker 3: the Paleo Cookbook for Mothers and Babies, which he released
Speaker 3: in twenty fifteen, and that was enormously controversial because of
Speaker 3: a recipe which of the bone broth recipe for infants
Speaker 3: that dietitians came out and they were like, this would
Speaker 3: do a lot of harm to a child a baby.
Speaker 3: Then came the Healing Lamp he tried to market in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty as a treatment for COVID, and that landed
Speaker 3: him with a fine of more than twenty five thousand
Speaker 3: dollars from the Therapeutic Goods Administration. Look, there's much more,
Speaker 3: but long story short. He got pulled off Instagram and Facebook,
Speaker 3: where he was very influential and had a massive, massive platform,
Speaker 3: and he was pulled off for deliberately spreading misinformation this year.
Speaker 3: Earlier this year, however, he was back and he has
Speaker 3: a much smaller audience, but he's there. He is being
Speaker 3: interviewed on many podcasts about how the lockdown in Melbourne
Speaker 3: was a disaster. How people are scared of his teachings
Speaker 3: because they get people out of the system. By that,
Speaker 3: he means the hospital medical system, and we all know
Speaker 3: how lucrative that system is.
Speaker 2: I think what you're referring to is what he would
Speaker 2: call the medical industrial complex. Y.
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, rash exactly. He's going up against those guys.
Speaker 3: He's wearing a t shirt that says food is Medicine,
Speaker 3: and he's also selling a bunch of retreats. What's interesting
Speaker 3: to me is that a lot of his beliefs now
Speaker 3: are sounding familiar and quite in tune with a cultural
Speaker 3: reset we've seen, particularly since the pandemic. A lot of
Speaker 3: his beliefs are sort of the bedrock of the Make
Speaker 3: America Healthy Again or MAHA movement, spearheaded by Robert F.
Speaker 3: Kennedy Junior, the Secretary of Health and Human Services. Is
Speaker 3: this all becoming far more mainstream and is it kind
Speaker 3: of happening across the world.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's such a sort of strange alliance of
Speaker 4: people because I think one of you mentioned that he's
Speaker 4: also shilling for bitcoin at the same time, right, Yeah,
Speaker 4: And he's appearing at a bitcoin conference in Las Vegas
Speaker 4: as we speak, which I'm disappointed to be missing.
Speaker 1: But I wonder.
Speaker 4: Why there's this sort of overlapse between insul culture or
Speaker 4: the manisphere. More accurately, I think cryptocurrency, health nuts. I
Speaker 4: wonder what that coalition is all about. And we see
Speaker 4: it most vividly in the Trump administration. Because Donald Trump
Speaker 4: is not a man who's concerned with wellness culture. I
Speaker 4: would say we talked about his love, but he knew
Speaker 4: by inviting Robert F. Kennedy Junior, a former Democrat, into
Speaker 4: his coalition, he knew that he was tapping into this
Speaker 4: increasingly important, vocal group of men and women who were
Speaker 4: interested in cryptocurrency, interested in health, and the idea of
Speaker 4: bucking the mainstream culture in these ways. And he knew
Speaker 4: that that was a very powerful political coalition. Of course,
Speaker 4: Ourka Junior's doing all sorts of terrible things right now.
Speaker 4: So for instance, when he was first nominated, he said, no,
Speaker 4: I love vaccines. I'm very mainstream, I believe in science.
Speaker 4: He appeared before a Congressional committee last week and kind
Speaker 4: of just threw all of that out the window. He
Speaker 4: said he thinks that the COVID vaccine should no longer
Speaker 4: be recommended for healthy adults, and in fact, they've decided
Speaker 4: not to do that in the US. He says he
Speaker 4: doesn't know how many people died of COVID in the
Speaker 4: US during the pandemic. It was one point two million,
Speaker 4: and he fired an entire panel of childhood vaccine experts,
Speaker 4: opening the door for states like Florida to say that
Speaker 4: you do not have to get childhood vaccines to ender
Speaker 4: school there, which is making people worried about polio. So
Speaker 4: there are real effects of these Why do you think
Speaker 4: this has such purchase right now? Because I think there's
Speaker 4: a kernel of truth to it. There are things in
Speaker 4: our modern lifestyle that clearly doing us damage. You only
Speaker 4: have to look at the fact that early on set
Speaker 4: cancers are hugely on the rise, particularly the gastro intestinal ones.
Speaker 4: And look, doctors have speculated as to why this is,
Speaker 4: and they've identified some things like obesity and microplastics, by
Speaker 4: the way, two things that RFK Junior has been very
Speaker 4: vocal about the fact that he wants to fight.
Speaker 1: But also, we still don't.
Speaker 4: Really know why young people are getting cancer at higher rates.
Speaker 4: So I think there's a kernel of truth to it.
Speaker 2: I'm fascinated by Pete Evans, and I always have been
Speaker 2: because when he was at his peak of influence paleo influence,
Speaker 2: I mean, because obviously he became very famous and built
Speaker 2: up a massive following just being a handsome guy who
Speaker 2: was on My Kitchen Rules and was kind of charming
Speaker 2: next to Manu, right, and everybody liked that. And then
Speaker 2: he became really interested in this Food is Medicine movement.
Speaker 2: And what was fascinating is if you watched his social
Speaker 2: media at that time, which I did. Obviously writing on
Speaker 2: the internet was a He had a huge community, but
Speaker 2: it started from you know, here's some nice salads, here's
Speaker 2: some healthy things to that all looked delicious, and then
Speaker 2: you could watch his slide into Black Lives Matter as
Speaker 2: a conspiracy, COVID as a conspiracy big farmers out to
Speaker 2: get us all, like it's like a case study of
Speaker 2: radicalization if you watched what was happening with him. But
Speaker 2: one of the things that made him so powerful and effective,
Speaker 2: and I would say still makes him quite powerful and effective,
Speaker 2: is that the community that he built up, particularly on Facebook,
Speaker 2: because when he got tossed off those platforms, he had
Speaker 2: and combined following about two million, and I listened to
Speaker 2: this podcast interview that you're talking about Jesse. He is
Speaker 2: entirely unapologetic about absolutely anything, and in fact, he's not
Speaker 2: even whinging about it. He just says, this was my journey,
Speaker 2: and I was. He sees himself very much as a
Speaker 2: sort of messiah in a way. But he had this
Speaker 2: very engaged community who had followed some of his dietary
Speaker 2: advice and found it massively helpful. And those are real people.
Speaker 2: And he said that most of them were women, most
Speaker 2: of them were over forty, and they became his evangelical
Speaker 2: foot soldiers. And I'm not diminishing them in any way.
Speaker 2: The stories were very real about the ways that changing
Speaker 2: the way they ate had made them feel better and
Speaker 2: more energized and all of these things. And if you
Speaker 2: ever wrote anything negative about Pete Evans on the Internet
Speaker 2: in those days, which I did, I'm afraid it's trolling,
Speaker 2: Like I haven't had it on any other topic. People
Speaker 2: would come for you because it men or women, a
Speaker 2: lot both, but a lot of people who genuinely felt
Speaker 2: like this information had been really really helpful to them.
Speaker 2: And who are you to say that it's nonsense? And
Speaker 2: I get that right. But the thing that you then
Speaker 2: saw that's overreach is like eating healthily, cutting out lots
Speaker 2: of processed foods, trying to eat you know, lean meat,
Speaker 2: lots of organic vegetables, all of that stuff. Great, great
Speaker 2: bit privileged, bit special, but great. But then this overstep
Speaker 2: would be and you can cure X, and you can
Speaker 2: cure Y. And the reason your child has this diagnosis
Speaker 2: is because that and it's the overreach and the overreach.
Speaker 2: It's really interesting, and I wonder if that army of
Speaker 2: his is still engaged in mainstream or not, because you
Speaker 2: can't deny that some of the things that he was
Speaker 2: talking about that sort of got him mocked in those days,
Speaker 2: just like Gwyneth Paltrow says this a lot too, and
Speaker 2: now pretty mainstream. If you want to go to Pete
Speaker 2: Evans Retreat, I looked it up. Cost you about two
Speaker 2: grand for two nights to go to the beautiful property
Speaker 2: and have a weekend of wellness. But you're looking at
Speaker 2: you know, magnesium baths, infrared saunas, forest bathing, like this
Speaker 2: is all stuff that lots of people are doing all
Speaker 2: the time. You know, even the heat lamp thing that
Speaker 2: he sold, which was obviously extreme, and he massively overstepped
Speaker 2: by tying it to COVID. But people are in infrared
Speaker 2: saunas at all, kinds of wellness retreats all over the
Speaker 2: place at the moment, and a lot of this stuff
Speaker 2: has become really mainstream. And so his weapon, if you like,
Speaker 2: is saying, well, I was right, I was right.
Speaker 3: And never accepting for it, and never accepting the things
Speaker 3: that he was wrong about. And the issue with a
Speaker 3: lot of these alternative remedies is that they haven't been
Speaker 3: put through clinical trials because a lot of them are
Speaker 3: really difficult to do so, because these are human bodies
Speaker 3: and it would be dangerous. And often traditional medicine doesn't
Speaker 3: say these don't work. They just say we don't have
Speaker 3: enough evidence. And that's the way that science works and evolves.
Speaker 3: And so the criticism of science as well is that, well,
Speaker 3: they told us this, and now it's this. Yes, science
Speaker 3: changes its mind by virtue of running experiments and research studies.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: And I listened to this great Ezra Klein episode last
Speaker 3: week about how make America Healthy Again is a bad
Speaker 3: answer to a very good question, and the core of
Speaker 3: it the idea that our diets and processed food and
Speaker 3: maybe medicines that we're taking and all of that have
Speaker 3: contributed to maybe more widespread ill health. The increasing kind
Speaker 3: of diagnosis and stuff isn't necessarily helping. And I was
Speaker 3: thinking about that and a lot of because, as you say, Amelia,
Speaker 3: this rise of illnesses in young people, sort of these
Speaker 3: random cancers in people that appear health like, it's just
Speaker 3: it's horrific. Speaking to a friend recently, and we were saying,
Speaker 3: people who have been diagnosed, gone through the treatment that
Speaker 3: ultimately saved their lives, which is chemo or radiation or
Speaker 3: a mixture or surgery, come out the other end with
Speaker 3: an openness to alternative therapies and a streak of what
Speaker 3: we call WU. And I don't mean that to denigrate
Speaker 3: it at all. I just think it's a really interesting
Speaker 3: data point.
Speaker 2: I think the other reason for that, and this is
Speaker 2: the demographic that Pete Evans says his followers were this
Speaker 2: over forties women. There are so many women who are
Speaker 2: not getting the answers to the questions that they have
Speaker 2: at their GP. And that's where most of us who
Speaker 2: don't have the resources or the access to go to
Speaker 2: a million different specialists and get a million test runs.
Speaker 2: We go to our GP and we say I'm feeling
Speaker 2: like this, I'm feeling like that, and they'll be like, oh,
Speaker 2: just could be nothing, could be this, could be that,
Speaker 2: But they're unsatisfactory answers, and so you go looking online
Speaker 2: for more satisfactory answers. And it doesn't seem massively odd
Speaker 2: that if you change the way you eat and change
Speaker 2: the way you live and start exercising and blah blah
Speaker 2: and you start feel better, that you might feel incredibly
Speaker 2: evangelical about that because it has changed your life. The problem, though,
Speaker 2: the fact that he may well have had an undeniable
Speaker 2: positive impact on some people's health through diet advice, is
Speaker 2: that the other part that goes hand in hand with
Speaker 2: this that really upsets people, and for very good reason,
Speaker 2: is that the core of it all is a kind
Speaker 2: of well, if you're sick, it's your fault. And he
Speaker 2: says on this podcast as well as you know, as
Speaker 2: I say, he's just incredibly confident, incredibly apologetic, but he
Speaker 2: basically says he believes that mindset can cure almost anything,
Speaker 2: and that kind of advice is not only dangerous because
Speaker 2: it can stop people from seeking the treatment that they need,
Speaker 2: but also is emotionally devastating because it really puts the
Speaker 2: what you just didn't fight hard enough, You had the
Speaker 2: wrong mindset, you weren't willing to be disciplined enough with
Speaker 2: your diet, and that is the toxic part of all this.
Speaker 3: You know what, though, Holly, it's also deeply attractive because
Speaker 3: when people run out of options, I mean, there is
Speaker 3: nothing that sparks fearing people like ill health and their mortality.
Speaker 3: You would do anything, you would believe in literally anything,
Speaker 3: And so I have such empathy for people who then
Speaker 3: move to some of these alternative treatments or follow these
Speaker 3: people like gurus, because you know, sometimes you do get
Speaker 3: to the end of the road and all you need
Speaker 3: is hope.
Speaker 2: But it would be like, you know, a populist prime
Speaker 2: minister getting voted in in Australia and putting Pete Evans
Speaker 2: in charge of our health system. It is not that
Speaker 2: different to that.
Speaker 4: Is it. No? And I think the other thing, the
Speaker 4: other lesson that we've learned from the pandemic is that
Speaker 4: silencing these people or deplatforming them to use that expression
Speaker 4: doesn't work. Because Donald Trump was kicked off Twitter too.
Speaker 4: We really crack down on the idea of you're not
Speaker 4: allowed to say certain things on social media platforms, and
Speaker 4: social media companies got on board with that idea. Remember
Speaker 4: there used to be those little warnings during the pandemic
Speaker 4: about medical misinformation on Instagram.
Speaker 3: Some of which ended up being true.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I think there was this issue of if
Speaker 4: we don't let them speak, then they'll go away, but
Speaker 4: they haven't.
Speaker 3: It's interesting too that we're now telling a story about
Speaker 3: the pandemic, and in this as Reclined episode where he
Speaker 3: interviews experts, they say the two things people have forgotten
Speaker 3: is the death that it's more than one million people died,
Speaker 3: and the second is that the only reason this pandemic
Speaker 3: ended was because of the vaccines. And to have rewritten
Speaker 3: that narrative by now is just a fascinating response.
Speaker 4: The Internet has died, and I know who killed it.
Speaker 4: Let's step back. The Internet's gotten boring, right, You've noticed this.
Speaker 4: Every time I want to procrastinate from work, I go
Speaker 4: on to the Internet, which we used to call the
Speaker 4: information super Highway, and now it's more just like a
Speaker 4: sort of clogged side road.
Speaker 1: It's just sit there's nothing there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, okay, there's a reason why the CEO of
Speaker 4: chat gpt. His name is Sam Altman. He has tweeted
Speaker 4: that he now believes in this so called dead Internet theory.
Speaker 4: This is a conspiracy theory which says that the majority
Speaker 4: of content online now is actually generated by bots, it's
Speaker 4: not actually by humans, and that's why the Internet has
Speaker 4: got really boring. And Oltman said that a lot of
Speaker 4: tweets now are being written by l elms, that is,
Speaker 4: large language models, like the one that he produces called
Speaker 4: chat GPT. Now you may wonder why someone who is
Speaker 4: shilling chat gpt is also telling us that it's making
Speaker 4: the Internet bad. It's because he has another company that
Speaker 4: works out whether humans are really posting things online, Like
Speaker 4: you know when it says click the boxes here that
Speaker 4: have motorbikes in them to proof that you're human.
Speaker 1: That's his other company.
Speaker 3: Oh the amount of times I have to prove I'm
Speaker 3: a human?
Speaker 4: Oh and I get it by yeah, I'm like, what
Speaker 4: do you mean by motorbike?
Speaker 1: Like a little bit of a corner here? Is that
Speaker 1: a motive that a pushbike? I have to do it
Speaker 1: like four times.
Speaker 3: Same and it's like the amount of times I get tested.
Speaker 3: I'm like, how many times are they not humans, and
Speaker 3: couldn't you get a bot to do this? I mean,
Speaker 3: I suppose apparently.
Speaker 4: This is the one thing that bots still can't do,
Speaker 4: is they cannot recognize patterns that tell them what things
Speaker 4: are and what things aren't. That's like the one thing
Speaker 4: they haven't figured.
Speaker 2: Out what to do yet. They're threatening highest strata of
Speaker 2: a community's jobs and all of these things, but they
Speaker 2: can't pick a motorbike. They cannot pick a motorbikes.
Speaker 4: While there's in fact these like big warehouses where people
Speaker 4: are trying to train computers to recognize objects bridges, So
Speaker 4: there are people whose whole job it is to be like, hey, computer,
Speaker 4: this is a bridge, this is a bridge, this is
Speaker 4: a bridge.
Speaker 1: I'm hoping eventually.
Speaker 3: I've often thought this about Reddit, though, because I spend
Speaker 3: a lot of time on Reddit, and they'll be a
Speaker 3: mighty asshole. Is a famous kind of Subreddit or today
Speaker 3: I learned or whatever. And you see trends and you
Speaker 3: see patterns, and I've always thought not that it's a bot,
Speaker 3: but that it's someone from Reddit. And same with Twitter. Right,
Speaker 3: it's like someone planting no.
Speaker 1: It's a bot.
Speaker 3: A really yeah?
Speaker 1: And I think you can start to tell now.
Speaker 4: There is in fact a really interesting Wikipedia entry which
Speaker 4: is all about the ways you can tell that something's
Speaker 4: been written by AI and among the many signs are
Speaker 4: an overuse of M dashes.
Speaker 3: Which is an M dash is like a lot.
Speaker 4: Really online, and also a lot of hyperbole, like, for instance,
Speaker 4: the most interesting plant in the world is such and such,
Speaker 4: just because the computer thinks that, because it's being asked
Speaker 4: to write about it, it's a really important topic, which
Speaker 4: is always the case.
Speaker 3: Because you always see as well at the end of articles,
Speaker 3: now you know there's recommended articles just from around the internet,
Speaker 3: and it'll be like, you won't believe what this nineties
Speaker 3: pop star looks like now, and it's a one hundred
Speaker 3: and forty year old AI generated woman from an internet
Speaker 3: website that doesn't exist. It's like, it's just absolute slop.
Speaker 4: It's crap and it's everywhere. So many cures for belly
Speaker 4: fat hah. After the break. The one tip to make
Speaker 4: your small talk better.
Speaker 2: One unlimited out loud access. We dropped episodes every Tuesday
Speaker 2: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link
Speaker 2: in the show notes to get us in your ears
Speaker 2: five days a week. And a huge thank you to
Speaker 2: all our current subscribers.
Speaker 3: Small talk gets a really bad rap.
Speaker 4: I think I think I've heard you say, Holy, you
Speaker 4: don't even like small.
Speaker 2: Talk, so I can't be doing with it okay, And
Speaker 2: I'm also really bad at it. To be honest, Well,
Speaker 2: I haven't just a study for you.
Speaker 4: There's a new study that's come out that explains how
Speaker 4: we can all get better at small talk.
Speaker 2: Actually, I just have to do a little correction to
Speaker 2: the record. Actually, Amelia is because I remember years ago
Speaker 2: when I started working with some young promising journalists called
Speaker 2: Claire and Jesse Stevens. I actually had a word with
Speaker 2: them about small talk beauns right, because they hadn't worked
Speaker 2: in an office before and they didn't know that like
Speaker 2: when somebody comes into the kitchen and says to you,
Speaker 2: like how should that? It was good to engage them
Speaker 2: like smile, say hello when you walk in. And I
Speaker 2: was actually being an advocate for small talk at that
Speaker 2: time in my life, when I was a manager, I
Speaker 2: was like, all be nice to each other, all ask
Speaker 2: each other how your weekends were, smile and nod. But
Speaker 2: now I think maybe my tolerance for it is just warm.
Speaker 2: I don't know so much small talk in you.
Speaker 3: I didn't know that, like it was a learned skill
Speaker 3: for me, that when you enter the office on a
Speaker 3: Monday morning you vocally acknowledge those around you Like that
Speaker 3: doesn't come naturally to me.
Speaker 4: I am going to wager that what you told Jesse
Speaker 4: about how to do small talk is in fact wrong,
Speaker 4: because you know, when we're all taught how to make conversation,
Speaker 4: one of the key rules is that you meant to
Speaker 4: folly back and forth. It's meant to be like a
Speaker 4: game of tennis. I don't play tennis, but this is
Speaker 4: my understanding. I let the tennis correspond to chime in
Speaker 4: where some ask you a question, then you asked them
Speaker 4: a question back. So here's an example of how you
Speaker 4: might do small talk this way. How is your weekend?
Speaker 1: Oh good, I've binge to Netflix you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I took my dog to the park. Oh nice,
Speaker 4: what sort of dog is he? So do you see
Speaker 4: what happened there? There was just a pinging back and forth.
Speaker 4: It never got anywhere. You didn't ask what they were
Speaker 4: watching on Netflix. It never got below the surface.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Now, these psychologists say that you've got to get below
Speaker 4: the surface because that's where human connection is. If you
Speaker 4: stay on the surface, just pinging back and forth, you're
Speaker 4: never going to get anywhere. And they have introduced this
Speaker 4: concept called riffing. It's almost like flirting by another name.
Speaker 4: It's like picking up something that someone said and rather
Speaker 4: than just immediately volleying back a basic question to them,
Speaker 4: making a little joke about it, or starting to sort
Speaker 4: of do a little bit of imaginary play around it.
Speaker 4: Think about kids. When little kids go to the park,
Speaker 4: they're not engaging in small talk. They're immediately like we're
Speaker 4: playing like shipwrecked pirates. You're the pirate, you're the you know,
Speaker 4: the ocean coming up to the ship. But you know,
Speaker 4: they like to just assign roles immediately.
Speaker 2: And not like how are your snacks? My snacks are good.
Speaker 3: And they understand the concept of yes, and that in
Speaker 3: order to socialize you've got to lean in and go yes.
Speaker 3: All of the books I read to Learna are about
Speaker 3: like you might not want to play round and round,
Speaker 3: but you have to in order to get along with Morton.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh, really learning these lessons, I guess.
Speaker 4: And this is a famous improvisational technique which says you've
Speaker 4: always got to go along with what someone else proposes.
Speaker 1: So here's how it might play out in small talk
Speaker 1: role play. How is your weekend good?
Speaker 4: But I watched way too many tiktoks of people making
Speaker 4: little food whoall like little food, like dollhouse sized food. Yeah,
Speaker 4: if you want to learn how to make lasagna in
Speaker 4: a dollhouse, let me know.
Speaker 1: That's hilarious.
Speaker 4: We can organize a tiny food poplark and put it
Speaker 4: all on this coaster.
Speaker 1: And it sounds like any.
Speaker 3: Questions, Yeah, it sounds like we're in an episode of Friends.
Speaker 4: That's hilarious. Okay, here's the problem with it. I went
Speaker 4: to the hairdresser this morning and she asked me how
Speaker 4: my father's day was?
Speaker 1: And I just read this article.
Speaker 2: Hold on, yes, and what time do you go to
Speaker 2: the hair in the morning because it's Monday.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 4: This is my dedication to the VOD format. So she said,
Speaker 4: how was your father's Day? And I said, oh, it's good.
Speaker 4: How's your father's Day? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Good? And I just thought to myself there was no
Speaker 1: to be fair at once seven am. Are you going
Speaker 1: to be able to incorporate riffing?
Speaker 2: HOI let's see if you're on your game and you're
Speaker 2: feeling energetic, then yes, because I have a lot of
Speaker 2: questions for you about the hairdressers. At seven, I am
Speaker 2: not before coffee, but definitely need a coffee. But it
Speaker 2: is true that sometimes because the problem with small talk
Speaker 2: is sometimes you just do it to box tick obviously,
Speaker 2: So I'm like, in the kitchen this morning, cup of tea,
Speaker 2: how is your weekend good? How is your weekend good?
Speaker 2: Awkward size, and then you're kind of like, oh, the
Speaker 2: weather was it? Because it was? The weather was lovely,
Speaker 2: wasn't it. And the thing is is there's a script
Speaker 2: that we I bet there were five different versions more
Speaker 2: of that in the kitchen this morning, where we all
Speaker 2: said exactly the same thing. So I guess the way
Speaker 2: we should have done that is I go, how is
Speaker 2: your weekend? You say good? How was your weekend? I say, well,
Speaker 2: I got some bad news from home. My dog vomited
Speaker 2: on the carpet. I spent way too much time up
Speaker 2: to my ears in horseshit, Like.
Speaker 1: How is The response is that's hilarious.
Speaker 4: We couldn't start a horse stable with all that horseshit, Jesse,
Speaker 4: you had to learn small Yeah.
Speaker 1: How could you could you incorporate this new rule? I
Speaker 1: think so.
Speaker 3: I like the idea and this is something that comes
Speaker 3: up in all the small talk advice is levity, right,
Speaker 3: because I think some people are like, I don't like
Speaker 3: small talk. I'm going to talk about death, and it's like, no,
Speaker 3: not at seven am with the hairdresser people.
Speaker 2: You don't know.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 3: So I read this advice from a woman named Alison
Speaker 3: wood Brooks and it's the talk. It's like an acronym talk.
Speaker 3: So the first one stands for topics, and the idea
Speaker 3: is that you know what, before you walk in on
Speaker 3: a Monday morning, maybe have some topics. Yes, it says
Speaker 3: people prepare way more what they're going to wear the
Speaker 3: next day than what they're going to talk about. We
Speaker 3: put so much thought into what we're going to wear,
Speaker 3: and then we get in and we're like, like, someone's
Speaker 3: going to ask you about your weekend. Have a think
Speaker 3: what you're going to say?
Speaker 2: This is because I do this to my kids, right,
Speaker 2: is that if I'm going to take my kids too,
Speaker 2: now that they're older and they or you know, they
Speaker 2: can be little kids are entertaining for everybody, but teenagers
Speaker 2: they'll be like, oh oh, they're going to be on
Speaker 2: a call with their grandma for a while, and they're like, oh,
Speaker 2: I want to be doing this. I'm like, think of
Speaker 2: one story. Think of one story you're going to tell grandma.
Speaker 2: Or when we go to this thing today, they're all
Speaker 2: going to want to know, Matilda about your grand final
Speaker 2: and Billy how you're doing at school. Those are boring questions.
Speaker 2: Think of a good story, just one yeah story.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I prep them like that, And so what you're
Speaker 2: saying is we should all be prepping like that before
Speaker 2: we step into the arena of conversation.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I actually I ran into someone yesterday who's
Speaker 3: like an acquaintance, and weirdly he had been on my
Speaker 3: mind because of the last conversation we had. So as
Speaker 3: soon as I saw him, it wasn't awkward because I
Speaker 3: was like, oh, my goodness, I'm so glad I ran
Speaker 3: into you. I've been meaning to tell you black Like,
Speaker 3: so that sort of thing is meant to be really good.
Speaker 4: Can we role play what should I have done at
Speaker 4: the hairdresser when she said, how is your father's day?
Speaker 2: I think he should have prepared like.
Speaker 4: You know, what's interesting. We tried a new method of
Speaker 4: cooking steak, boiled it at the end, and does anyone
Speaker 4: want to hear me?
Speaker 2: Yes, you need to think of one interesting thing that
Speaker 2: happened on your Father's day. Give me one.
Speaker 1: Now that was that technique. I'm sorry, steak.
Speaker 3: I'm going to give you the next and then you
Speaker 3: have to do it. Okay, A is for asking, So
Speaker 3: then you have to ask Holly a question based off
Speaker 3: your Okay, maybe did you have steak?
Speaker 1: Yeah? What's your preferred method of cooking stack?
Speaker 3: Yes? Perfect? And then Holly say I.
Speaker 2: Didn't cook the steak. My friend did, but she's very
Speaker 2: good at cooking steak, and she made garlic butter with it.
Speaker 1: Oh, now that's hilarious.
Speaker 3: And then that brings us to levity or lightness. That's
Speaker 3: hilarious levity because then Holly is going to say I
Speaker 3: can't cook ha haha.
Speaker 2: I'm going to say I probably had too much garlic butter.
Speaker 2: Don't come too close to me this morning.
Speaker 4: But then tell me what is is it kissing?
Speaker 3: No, it's kindness, and you're going to say you don't stink.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 3: Generosity apparently meant to come into situation and go, what
Speaker 3: does this person you know? Sometimes you have small talk
Speaker 3: and you go, oh, this person seems a little nervous.
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, my job is to make this person
Speaker 3: feel comfortable or less overwhelmed or whatever. And so it's
Speaker 3: about like bringing generosity.
Speaker 1: To ask levity kindness.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: You haven't told us one interesting thing about your father's day?
Speaker 3: Oh, one interesting thing about my father's day.
Speaker 2: Did you make a fuss with all the fathers in
Speaker 2: your life?
Speaker 3: Yes? And I bought my dad a new T shirt.
Speaker 3: He already had this T shirt. He wore it too
Speaker 3: much and washed it too much that it was destroyed.
Speaker 3: I've recommended threadheads on here before and it's a collage
Speaker 3: of the girl's faces and lunar and it says pop
Speaker 3: is the best on it. And so now we've decided
Speaker 3: that he just can't wash it because the images will
Speaker 3: come on.
Speaker 1: Can I riff on that?
Speaker 4: I got my partner some socks that have our two kids'
Speaker 4: faces on.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's got just brought them online.
Speaker 2: Okay, very levity with that. Something new afoot in the
Speaker 2: Melia Lester household. That was terrible cut cut, Oh dear, okay,
Speaker 2: on that note, not that classy, classy, very neat.
Speaker 3: We do need to practice, We need to practice more.
Speaker 2: But that's all we've got time for today. The more
Speaker 2: small talk. A massive thank you to all of you
Speaker 2: for being with us here on today's show, and of
Speaker 2: course to our fabulous team for putting it together. Friends,
Speaker 2: don't forget that the reason Amelia got her head done
Speaker 2: and the reason I got the date wrong today is
Speaker 2: because we are making video here. And if you want
Speaker 2: to watch the show instead of listening, or as well
Speaker 2: as listening, you will find us on YouTube. We'll see
Speaker 2: you tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Bye bye. Shout out to any Mum and me a
Speaker 3: subscribers listening. If you love the show and you want
Speaker 3: to support us, subscribing to Mom and Mia is the
Speaker 3: very best way to do so. There's a link in
Speaker 3: the episode description.
Speaker 4: They be s
Speaker 2: Intand they should be the SA