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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia. Out loud. It's what women are actually talking

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Speaker 2: about on Monday, the sixth of September. I'm Holly Wayne right.

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Speaker 3: I think it's the eighth.

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Speaker 4: Shit.

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Speaker 2: I was trying to look up now that we make

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Speaker 2: this podcast also for video, and I never know what

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Speaker 2: David is. I would be terrible in one of those

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Speaker 2: cognitive tests where people are like, what day is it, Holly?

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Speaker 2: What date is it? Holly? No idea, no idea.

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Speaker 3: Well, the only reason I know is because of something

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Speaker 3: I'm bringing to the show today. But I have looked

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Speaker 3: into the data significance. But it is, in fact the eighth.

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Speaker 2: She's right, She's right, out louders, this is what women

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Speaker 2: are actually talking about, not two days ago, but today,

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Speaker 2: on Monday, the eighth of September. And I am Holly Wayne.

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Speaker 3: Right, I'm Jesse Stevens, and I am Amelia Last.

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Speaker 2: And here is what has made our agenda today. I

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Speaker 2: know you knew I was going to talk about this,

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Speaker 2: the hair change that swallowed your weekend group chats, I

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Speaker 2: have a special royal roundup for you, and yes it

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Speaker 2: does include Princess Kate.

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Speaker 3: Plus Australian wellness figure Pete Evans has returned and why

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Speaker 3: does it feel like he is now a man who

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Speaker 3: has truly met his.

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Speaker 4: Moment and you're doing small talk wrong. I've learned about

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Speaker 4: a new theory about how.

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Speaker 1: To fix this.

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Speaker 3: But first, in case you missed it, early this morning,

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Speaker 3: a total lunar eclipse was visible in much of the world.

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Speaker 3: Who got up to see it, ladies not. I think

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Speaker 3: it was like three point thirty. It was really I

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Speaker 3: saw the.

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Speaker 2: Moon outside last night was very impressive. Yeah, that was

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Speaker 2: the and I was like, that's enough, that's enough now.

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Speaker 2: But then I started getting texts from people saying you

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Speaker 2: must go crystals.

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Speaker 1: Out, you know.

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Speaker 3: I was in Canada one night and they were like,

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Speaker 3: you know there's going to be the what do you

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Speaker 3: call them, the fancy lights, normal lights the middle last night.

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Speaker 3: All we have to do is at one o'clock go

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Speaker 3: and look at them. And I was like, that's too warm.

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Speaker 4: Did you see that there's this new add out for

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Speaker 4: Tourism Australia that's been playing in China, which features the

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Speaker 4: Southern lights in Tasmania. No, the only problem is they're

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Speaker 4: basically impossible to see and had to be photoshopped in,

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Speaker 4: so they are under all sorts of criticism.

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Speaker 3: Maybe a little bit. I are interesting. Well, this moon

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Speaker 3: really happened. The moon passed through the Earth's shadow, which

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Speaker 3: produced a deep red hue, hence why it is called

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Speaker 3: the blood moon.

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Speaker 1: I love that.

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Speaker 3: But the real question is what does the pretty moon

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Speaker 3: say about me in my life? That's what everyone is asking.

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Speaker 3: Does it mark endings or beginnings or significant shifts? Or

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Speaker 3: should I be manifesting or reflecting?

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Speaker 4: And what does it mean for my period? Because I

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Speaker 4: know the moon's linked to my period in some way.

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Speaker 4: So true.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that sounds like a superperio. That sounds bad.

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Speaker 3: Eclipses are cosmic plot twists in our lives. Obviously, they

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Speaker 3: accelerate change and they dissolve anything outdated. Be ready, be

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Speaker 3: prepared for some revelations, because they're coming. Be ready to

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Speaker 3: be led in a direction your soul wants you to go.

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Speaker 3: There's something about alignment with your life's truest path. But

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Speaker 3: here is some practical advice that we must follow.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that's for like this week now that

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Speaker 2: the moon has happened, So like, don't be surprised if

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Speaker 2: things get a bit weird this week.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, it's going to be a bit chaotic, a bit messy,

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Speaker 3: but in a good way.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what.

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Speaker 3: That's your pads, yeah, exactly right. Yeah, and your period

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Speaker 3: undeas maybe some period genes. If something is leaving your life,

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Speaker 3: don't chase it. That's if you've got someone who, like

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Speaker 3: you're in the middle of a breakup, or something's going

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Speaker 3: wrong at work and you feel like you're meant to

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Speaker 3: let something go, You're meant to let it go.

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Speaker 2: That's so weird because I was driving in this morning

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Speaker 2: and I was like, let go, let go see and

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Speaker 2: I wasn't.

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Speaker 3: It was the blood it was the blood moon whispering

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Speaker 3: to you. Also, if you were planning on manifesting, don't manifesting.

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Speaker 3: Our job is too surrender, which I feel is lazier

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Speaker 3: and it's just more of a vibe. The instruction is

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Speaker 3: that we're not meant to do anything. We're just meant

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Speaker 3: to sit in like this, let the universe do what

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Speaker 3: it's meant to do. You're also the other thing you

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Speaker 3: meant to do is look through your photos from last

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Speaker 3: September because something significant happened and there's been like a

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Speaker 3: full circle thing, so I would do it. Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: that's when I got my THERMOMX. No, yeah, it is.

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Speaker 3: It is when I got my THERMOMX. So I feel

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Speaker 3: like that was a beginning.

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Speaker 2: And then she discovered vegetables. Yeah, and then there was

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Speaker 2: no stopping.

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Speaker 3: Us exactly exactly, and now I am basically Pete Evans.

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Speaker 2: So that's all I wish later.

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Speaker 3: That is all my blood moon update.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, I've immediately got to go and look at

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Speaker 2: last September's photos. Maybe we can put something on social Yeah,

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Speaker 2: exactly right, friends, I was wrong. You know, I don't

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Speaker 2: like to admit it. You know, I don't like to

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Speaker 2: admit being wrong, but I was really really wrong about

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Speaker 2: something very important that had something to do with the

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Speaker 2: royal person's hair color. Now you know I was going

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Speaker 2: to talk about this. It's my royal round up for

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Speaker 2: the day. A princess has changed her hair and I

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Speaker 2: have to deliver a mere culpa because just a couple

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Speaker 2: of weeks ago on the show, the first time there

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Speaker 2: was an image of Princess Catherine, Princess of Wales through

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Speaker 2: a car window a couple of weeks ago that made

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Speaker 2: it appear like her hair was sort of yellowish.

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Speaker 3: Honey honey blonde.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And it was all over the Daily Mail and everything,

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Speaker 2: and everyone was saying, oh my God. And I confidently

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Speaker 2: said on this show now, I can't really explain to

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Speaker 2: you how I know, deep in my soul she did

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Speaker 2: not dye her hair blonde. Princess Catherine is no more

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Speaker 2: allowed to dye her hair blonde than she is to

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Speaker 2: pick her undie's out of her bomb.

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Speaker 3: But I saw those pictures of her in the limousine

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Speaker 3: or something, and they think that it's blonde. Is it

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Speaker 3: just light? The lighting?

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Speaker 2: It's a pat picture right through a car window that

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Speaker 2: looks like she's gone proper blonde blonde. But a strategic

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Speaker 2: leak has already been placed with the Daily Mail that

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Speaker 2: says this is just yacht hair. She has spent the

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Speaker 2: summer in Greece and she's slowly been lightening her brown

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Speaker 2: from chestnut to more caramelli and there's just a bit

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Speaker 2: of summer sun on it. But Diana was blonde, yeah,

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Speaker 2: but she didn't start off brunette.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So it's a royal rule that you can't go

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Speaker 3: from brunette.

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Speaker 2: Well, I just think it's just very unlikely to have

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Speaker 2: such a dramatic hair chakee well until now, right, So

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Speaker 2: I was very very wrong because, as everybody listening to

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Speaker 2: this knows, on Friday Thursday, their time, she and William

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Speaker 2: went to an event I think they were Oh yes,

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Speaker 2: they were looking at the newly renovated gardens outside the

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Speaker 2: Natural History Museum in London, because that's the kind of

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Speaker 2: fun shit that is going to do. And all anyone

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Speaker 2: wanted to talk about was the fact that she had

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Speaker 2: blonde hair, big hair, the fonty hair, and the internet

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Speaker 2: went into meltdown. Yes, what did you two think when

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Speaker 2: you first saw it? I'm going to get to in

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Speaker 2: a minute to what people were saying, But what did

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Speaker 2: you two think?

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Speaker 3: Definitely drastic change, and there was a lot of andy

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Speaker 3: going around with the images, and a lot of people

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Speaker 3: were speculating about wig or extensions or topper all that

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Speaker 3: kind of stuff. I felt slightly uncomfortable with some of

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Speaker 3: the discourse, although I went, yeah, she probably does have

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Speaker 3: some sort of like topper, which is sort of not

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Speaker 3: a wig but additional hair.

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Speaker 2: Right, Obviously this is a sensitive topic and we're going

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Speaker 2: to put this on the table because, as we know,

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Speaker 2: in January this year, Princess Catherine said that she was

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Speaker 2: in remission from cancer and she had had chemotherapy treatment

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Speaker 2: last year, and she has spoken publicly about how She

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Speaker 2: called it a roller coaster. She said it was brutal.

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Speaker 2: She says that the adjustment to a post treatment life

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Speaker 2: has been really difficult, which is something that very many women,

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Speaker 2: well people can relate to. And there's no question that obviously,

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Speaker 2: the issues around hair with cancer treatment are very sensitive.

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Speaker 2: She never appeared to lose her hair, of course, but

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Speaker 2: we don't know and nor should we know, what's been

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Speaker 2: going on. So there's obviously a sensitivity around discussing this,

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Speaker 2: which feels a bit icky. But then on the other hand,

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Speaker 2: there is no question that often what a royal or

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Speaker 2: We've talked about this with other public figures like politicians,

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Speaker 2: with their appearance, they're often trying to have as little

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Speaker 2: commentary as possible, like I just look the same every

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Speaker 2: time you see me. I'm wearing very boring things. I'm

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Speaker 2: not doing you know, I'm not doing this, I'm not

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Speaker 2: doing that. I don't want to attract any commentary. And

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Speaker 2: this was a big shift, so Kate was not doing

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Speaker 2: that with this. Some of the commentary has obviously been

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Speaker 2: very icky around it because it hasn't been very complimentary.

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Speaker 2: But Amelia, do you think it's fair game for conversation?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I think that was really well put, Holly.

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Speaker 4: And a lot of the debate that was happening in

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Speaker 4: my group chats was about whether or not it was

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Speaker 4: a wig. And what I found helpful was someone who

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Speaker 4: did some actual reporting on this, and that was Caitlin Colemore,

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Speaker 4: who's a hairstylist that Laney gossip called up and this

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Speaker 4: was in Laney's newslet of The Squawk, and Caitlin Colemore's

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Speaker 4: assessment was that these were extensions, they were not a wig.

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Speaker 4: And the reason she said that is because there was

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Speaker 4: no lace front visible, so it was Kate's actual hair

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Speaker 4: on top, the new blonde hair color on top. And

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Speaker 4: then the issue is that the extensions that have been

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Speaker 4: clipped underneath had not been executed well, meaning they hadn't

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Speaker 4: been brushed through in a way that made them look seamless.

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Speaker 4: Now Laney asks the question, and we all know that

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Speaker 4: Laney is an expert on the signals that celebrities and

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Speaker 4: public figures send in terms of things like their appearance.

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Speaker 4: She makes the point that Kate is the future Queen

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Speaker 4: of England.

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Speaker 1: She has plenty of resources, she has very skilled people

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Speaker 1: working with her.

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Speaker 4: So the question is why did they not give their

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Speaker 4: a game on this really important occasion for someone who's

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Speaker 4: going through a lot. And my personal theory on this

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Speaker 4: is that I wonder if Kate doesn't want to remind

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Speaker 4: us that she's going through a lot behind the scenes

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Speaker 4: that we don't know about. In addition to her recovery

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Speaker 4: from cancer, there may be other things happening too, and

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Speaker 4: it's just a reminder that we don't always know everything

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Speaker 4: that's happening in her life, and maybe she wants to

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Speaker 4: remind us that she's got more important things to think

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Speaker 4: about right now than making sure that her hair is

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Speaker 4: executed perfectly.

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Speaker 2: This is my theory, as much as it's in any

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Speaker 2: way okay for a grown woman to have a theory

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Speaker 2: about another grown woman's hair. A while ago, you might

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Speaker 2: remember that Kate's press office said, and then sort of backtracked,

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Speaker 2: that they weren't going to talk about her clothes anymore.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember that I said that it was always

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Speaker 2: very standard that you would release the details of what

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Speaker 2: a princess or a senior royal was wearing, like what

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Speaker 2: designers she's wearing, Da da, Da da, And they kind

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Speaker 2: of said, we're going to stop doing that. Then they

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Speaker 2: backtracked on it a little bit because there was an

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Speaker 2: outcry from people who were very upset about it. But

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Speaker 2: a lot of women who've gone through something as serious

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Speaker 2: and life altering as Kate has over the past year

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Speaker 2: or two come out with realigned priorities, And I sort

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Speaker 2: of wonder if Kate is just jack of being the

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Speaker 2: perfectly poised, quafft princess at all times and is kind

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Speaker 2: of like, all right, so the hair isn't perfect today.

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Speaker 2: I don't give a shit.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: I haven't done a million things to my face that

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Speaker 2: people think I should be doing. I'm wearing clothes I

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Speaker 2: was wearing six months ago, which is something she's always done.

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Speaker 2: For a start, she's always reworn clothes and things. She's

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Speaker 2: kind of going, who gives a shit. I want to

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Speaker 2: be here to support causes I care about, talk about

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Speaker 2: issues that matter. But the problem is that's all we

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Speaker 2: all care about. And when I say we, I don't

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Speaker 2: necessarily mean us. But you know, that's all the public

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Speaker 2: cares about when it comes to a princess, so it's

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Speaker 2: kind of it must be very frustrating if she's like,

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Speaker 2: I want to send a message that who cares if

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Speaker 2: I didn't brush my hair perfectly? But then that goes

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Speaker 2: around the world.

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Speaker 4: To extend that theory a little further, I think we

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Speaker 4: should remember that William is currently going through a kind

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Speaker 4: of renegotiation of what it means to be a royal

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Speaker 4: and how many engagements he should have each year. There

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Speaker 4: was actually some reporting in Tatler last month that Princess Anne,

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Speaker 4: who was seventy five now and who has always done

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Speaker 4: the most engagements of anyone in the royal family, is

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Speaker 4: annoyed at William. She says he is not doing enough

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Speaker 4: engagements and let me get the numbers right here. In

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Speaker 4: the last year she did four hundred and seventy four

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Speaker 4: engagement oh my god, which is mind boggling when you

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Speaker 4: think about it.

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Speaker 2: And I talked about this list in his book about

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Speaker 2: how when it comes out every the list that Amilia

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Speaker 2: is talking about, the royals will get really shitty with

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Speaker 2: each other.

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Speaker 4: And AD's always at the top. William last year did

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Speaker 4: one hundred and thirty five. Now, obviously it was a

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Speaker 4: hugely tough year for his.

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Speaker 3: Father and wife. Both were dealing with cancer diagnosis.

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Speaker 4: Yes, but also more generally, he and Kate have talked

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Speaker 4: about for a long time about how they want to

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Speaker 4: really focus on the early years of their children's lives

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Speaker 4: and give them the kind of care and attention that

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Speaker 4: frankly William did not get. They believe that that will

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Speaker 4: set them up best for a life in the public eye.

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Speaker 4: So this is part of also a renegotiation of what

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Speaker 4: it means to be royal, how often should you be

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Speaker 4: seen in public? And I think you've got to see

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Speaker 4: this hair change as part of that overall renegotiation.

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Speaker 3: I wonder if too, I've heard people talk about when

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Speaker 3: something really dramatic happens in your life, whether that's a

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Speaker 3: diagnosis or a loss that can't necessarily be seen from

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Speaker 3: the outside, sometimes you want a visual marker that you've changed.

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Speaker 3: So it's the classic getting a fringe after a breakup

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Speaker 3: in terms of I don't feel the same anymore. So

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Speaker 3: I can completely understand how Kate feels like a totally

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Speaker 3: different person if it has literally impacted her hair, which

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Speaker 3: I mean, it probably has even you know, that sort

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Speaker 3: of of treatment, it would make sense. I would think

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Speaker 3: that if you're in the public eye, and even for

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Speaker 3: the sake of getting ready more quickly, I would think

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Speaker 3: that having extensions or top of the pieces something you

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Speaker 3: do all the time. And the other thing that I've

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Speaker 3: heard a few hairdressers say is that for women over forty,

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Speaker 3: you often see them go to that exact color. And

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Speaker 3: the reason they go to that exact color is because

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Speaker 3: you don't need to cover grays as much. If you

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Speaker 3: have dark brown hair and you're starting to get little grays,

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Speaker 3: it's every two weeks you're having to cover them and exactly,

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Speaker 3: and so you go to that and you're able to

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Speaker 3: kind of mix it in a little bit more So

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Speaker 3: that kind of made.

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Speaker 2: Sense too out loud as prepare for much Kate hairwatch

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Speaker 2: because then on Sunday she was out watching our Wallaroos

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Speaker 2: get smashed by the English actually and the rugby and

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Speaker 2: it looked like she was brunette again. But then the

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Speaker 2: video in the change room with different lighting, Oh, look

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Speaker 2: like she was blood again. Brown blood, brown blood. We've

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Speaker 2: got whiplash. So just I think we all need a

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Speaker 2: chill PILLLP.

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Speaker 3: I think as a culture too, there's something about wigs,

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Speaker 3: because there is this obsession with men and wigs. So

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Speaker 3: Harry styles. There have been rumors for years about his

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Speaker 3: hair loss. Yes, about his hair loss. It's all the

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Speaker 3: f one. There are certain players where it's like he

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Speaker 3: has a topper or whatever. There are like Instagram accounts

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Speaker 3: dedicated to it, and I think it's it's almost been

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Speaker 3: coded or read. Is this thing about honesty or transparency,

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Speaker 3: like that they're being somehow dishonest. Harry has had to

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Speaker 3: address it publicly. Yeah, there's this idea that people are

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Speaker 3: kind of fooling us, which I think is really unfair

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Speaker 3: because you go, how many ways do we all change

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Speaker 3: our appearance before we leave the house, But wigs is

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Speaker 3: just this kind of other.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a really good point.

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Speaker 4: And I think that's actually also changing a little bit too,

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Speaker 4: because just recently John Cena came out and said that

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Speaker 4: when he was losing hair, he got hair transplants and

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Speaker 4: then his Hollywood career took off again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's big business, the hair transplants. Oh, which brings

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Speaker 2: me in a nice segway to my friend Prince Harry,

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Speaker 2: who I am convinced has had a hair transplant, but

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Speaker 2: that's just my theory. Nothing to see him move along.

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Speaker 2: And we all know I was wrong about Kate's blonde,

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Speaker 2: so you never know. Anyway, a little bit of Harry

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Speaker 2: gossip for my Royal roundup. Watch this week what happens

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Speaker 2: in England with Hazard because he's there right and this

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Speaker 2: is significant because this is the first time that Prince

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Speaker 2: Harry has been back to Britain since he famously lost

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Speaker 2: that court case you know where he said that he

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Speaker 2: wanted to automatically get the highest level of protection from

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Speaker 2: the British police when every time he went to Britain

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Speaker 2: and he lost that case and he was really mad

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Speaker 2: about it, and he went on the BBC and sprayed

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Speaker 2: basically and pretty much accused his family of not caring

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Speaker 2: whether he died when he was on their soil.

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Speaker 1: And it cost him millions, to cost him millions.

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Speaker 2: It was not good. He was going nuclear about it. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: he's back and what's interesting is that he's gone back

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Speaker 2: for a charity function also the anniversary of the Queen's death.

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Speaker 2: But he has gone by for a charity function tonight London,

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Speaker 2: time for a charity that his sport's called Well Child.

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Speaker 2: He went to that last year too. He's also going

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Speaker 2: to another children's charity event where he's expected to announce

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Speaker 2: a big donation to this charity in another part of England.

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Speaker 2: But what's interesting is all the leaks that are coming

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Speaker 2: out clearly from his people, because they're in People magazine

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Speaker 2: and everything, are saying Harry is so excited to be there,

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Speaker 2: He's going to make the most of it, He's going

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Speaker 2: to have fun. They are clearly trying to change the

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Speaker 2: tune from sad Harry feeling unloved and unwelcome to happy

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Speaker 2: Harry can't wait to be back. But everyone is saying

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Speaker 2: is he going to see his dad? It is generally

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Speaker 2: believed that he has not seen Charles since February twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty four.

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Speaker 4: Well, the league's coming out on the other side too,

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Speaker 4: because in the Telegraph, which I believe is commonly referred

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Speaker 4: to as the Tory Graph because it's quite conservative and

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Speaker 4: more royal family and line establishment, there was an article

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Speaker 4: saying that he's absolutely not going to meet with Charles,

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Speaker 4: and he's certainly not going to meet with William.

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Speaker 1: That's not Willy on.

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Speaker 4: The Pale, but also not Charles and also make the

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Speaker 4: point that since Center Barlay, that charity that he started,

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Speaker 4: had the bullying scandal, he's really been casting about and

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Speaker 4: he wants to have a kind of royal proxy role

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Speaker 4: where he can show up at charities and he can

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Speaker 4: do the good works. But Center Barlay's kind of imploded

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Speaker 4: on him, and so there's a feeling with this visit

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Speaker 4: that he's kind of casting about something new.

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Speaker 2: It'd be really sad if he doesn't go and have

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Speaker 2: a pop in with King Charle, I know.

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Speaker 3: Especially since how much he's been expressing that he wants to.

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Speaker 3: In a moment, Australian wellness figure Pete Evans has returned

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Speaker 3: and we want to unpack what role he is playing

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Speaker 3: in the culture now. Pete Evans, the fifty two year

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Speaker 3: old former television chef he used to be on My

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Speaker 3: Kitchen Rolls, made a rare public appearance earlier this month

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Speaker 3: on a podcast called Get Harder. He was back on

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Speaker 3: my Instagram.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all over my socials.

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Speaker 1: Yeah to subscribe to the Get Harder podcast.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 3: No, I thought that there was probably a side of

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Speaker 3: Instagram where Pete Evans still was because I knew he'd

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Speaker 3: had his account reactivated, but I hadn't seen him before

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Speaker 3: we get to any of that, just to refresh. Evans

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Speaker 3: was an acclaimed author and TV personality whose claims about

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Speaker 3: health and wellness became increasingly outlandish. So first there was

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Speaker 3: the Paleo Cookbook for Mothers and Babies, which he released

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Speaker 3: in twenty fifteen, and that was enormously controversial because of

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Speaker 3: a recipe which of the bone broth recipe for infants

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Speaker 3: that dietitians came out and they were like, this would

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Speaker 3: do a lot of harm to a child a baby.

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Speaker 3: Then came the Healing Lamp he tried to market in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty as a treatment for COVID, and that landed

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Speaker 3: him with a fine of more than twenty five thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars from the Therapeutic Goods Administration. Look, there's much more,

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Speaker 3: but long story short. He got pulled off Instagram and Facebook,

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Speaker 3: where he was very influential and had a massive, massive platform,

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Speaker 3: and he was pulled off for deliberately spreading misinformation this year.

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Speaker 3: Earlier this year, however, he was back and he has

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Speaker 3: a much smaller audience, but he's there. He is being

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Speaker 3: interviewed on many podcasts about how the lockdown in Melbourne

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00:19:22,502 --> 00:19:25,942
Speaker 3: was a disaster. How people are scared of his teachings

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Speaker 3: because they get people out of the system. By that,

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00:19:29,061 --> 00:19:32,981
Speaker 3: he means the hospital medical system, and we all know

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Speaker 3: how lucrative that system is.

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Speaker 2: I think what you're referring to is what he would

422
00:19:36,222 --> 00:19:37,941
Speaker 2: call the medical industrial complex. Y.

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Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, rash exactly. He's going up against those guys.

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Speaker 3: He's wearing a t shirt that says food is Medicine,

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Speaker 3: and he's also selling a bunch of retreats. What's interesting

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Speaker 3: to me is that a lot of his beliefs now

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Speaker 3: are sounding familiar and quite in tune with a cultural

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00:19:55,422 --> 00:20:00,101
Speaker 3: reset we've seen, particularly since the pandemic. A lot of

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Speaker 3: his beliefs are sort of the bedrock of the Make

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Speaker 3: America Healthy Again or MAHA movement, spearheaded by Robert F.

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Speaker 3: Kennedy Junior, the Secretary of Health and Human Services. Is

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Speaker 3: this all becoming far more mainstream and is it kind

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Speaker 3: of happening across the world.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's such a sort of strange alliance of

435
00:20:20,222 --> 00:20:23,502
Speaker 4: people because I think one of you mentioned that he's

436
00:20:23,542 --> 00:20:27,222
Speaker 4: also shilling for bitcoin at the same time, right, Yeah,

437
00:20:27,621 --> 00:20:30,662
Speaker 4: And he's appearing at a bitcoin conference in Las Vegas

438
00:20:30,702 --> 00:20:33,021
Speaker 4: as we speak, which I'm disappointed to be missing.

439
00:20:33,542 --> 00:20:34,622
Speaker 1: But I wonder.

440
00:20:34,341 --> 00:20:39,022
Speaker 4: Why there's this sort of overlapse between insul culture or

441
00:20:39,061 --> 00:20:45,501
Speaker 4: the manisphere. More accurately, I think cryptocurrency, health nuts. I

442
00:20:45,542 --> 00:20:47,942
Speaker 4: wonder what that coalition is all about. And we see

443
00:20:47,982 --> 00:20:51,341
Speaker 4: it most vividly in the Trump administration. Because Donald Trump

444
00:20:51,422 --> 00:20:53,982
Speaker 4: is not a man who's concerned with wellness culture. I

445
00:20:54,022 --> 00:20:58,901
Speaker 4: would say we talked about his love, but he knew

446
00:20:59,101 --> 00:21:02,702
Speaker 4: by inviting Robert F. Kennedy Junior, a former Democrat, into

447
00:21:02,782 --> 00:21:05,542
Speaker 4: his coalition, he knew that he was tapping into this

448
00:21:05,621 --> 00:21:11,421
Speaker 4: increasingly important, vocal group of men and women who were

449
00:21:11,462 --> 00:21:15,141
Speaker 4: interested in cryptocurrency, interested in health, and the idea of

450
00:21:15,182 --> 00:21:18,622
Speaker 4: bucking the mainstream culture in these ways. And he knew

451
00:21:18,661 --> 00:21:21,302
Speaker 4: that that was a very powerful political coalition. Of course,

452
00:21:21,302 --> 00:21:24,502
Speaker 4: Ourka Junior's doing all sorts of terrible things right now.

453
00:21:24,581 --> 00:21:27,901
Speaker 4: So for instance, when he was first nominated, he said, no,

454
00:21:28,022 --> 00:21:31,302
Speaker 4: I love vaccines. I'm very mainstream, I believe in science.

455
00:21:31,821 --> 00:21:34,181
Speaker 4: He appeared before a Congressional committee last week and kind

456
00:21:34,222 --> 00:21:36,502
Speaker 4: of just threw all of that out the window. He

457
00:21:36,542 --> 00:21:39,302
Speaker 4: said he thinks that the COVID vaccine should no longer

458
00:21:39,341 --> 00:21:41,902
Speaker 4: be recommended for healthy adults, and in fact, they've decided

459
00:21:41,901 --> 00:21:43,981
Speaker 4: not to do that in the US. He says he

460
00:21:43,982 --> 00:21:45,861
Speaker 4: doesn't know how many people died of COVID in the

461
00:21:45,942 --> 00:21:48,461
Speaker 4: US during the pandemic. It was one point two million,

462
00:21:48,901 --> 00:21:52,022
Speaker 4: and he fired an entire panel of childhood vaccine experts,

463
00:21:52,182 --> 00:21:54,341
Speaker 4: opening the door for states like Florida to say that

464
00:21:54,381 --> 00:21:56,821
Speaker 4: you do not have to get childhood vaccines to ender

465
00:21:56,861 --> 00:21:59,821
Speaker 4: school there, which is making people worried about polio. So

466
00:22:00,222 --> 00:22:02,422
Speaker 4: there are real effects of these Why do you think

467
00:22:02,462 --> 00:22:05,502
Speaker 4: this has such purchase right now? Because I think there's

468
00:22:05,502 --> 00:22:07,501
Speaker 4: a kernel of truth to it. There are things in

469
00:22:07,542 --> 00:22:11,542
Speaker 4: our modern lifestyle that clearly doing us damage. You only

470
00:22:11,581 --> 00:22:13,341
Speaker 4: have to look at the fact that early on set

471
00:22:13,381 --> 00:22:17,621
Speaker 4: cancers are hugely on the rise, particularly the gastro intestinal ones.

472
00:22:17,982 --> 00:22:21,061
Speaker 4: And look, doctors have speculated as to why this is,

473
00:22:21,101 --> 00:22:24,821
Speaker 4: and they've identified some things like obesity and microplastics, by

474
00:22:24,861 --> 00:22:27,102
Speaker 4: the way, two things that RFK Junior has been very

475
00:22:27,141 --> 00:22:29,262
Speaker 4: vocal about the fact that he wants to fight.

476
00:22:29,621 --> 00:22:31,022
Speaker 1: But also, we still don't.

477
00:22:30,861 --> 00:22:34,622
Speaker 4: Really know why young people are getting cancer at higher rates.

478
00:22:34,661 --> 00:22:36,502
Speaker 4: So I think there's a kernel of truth to it.

479
00:22:36,742 --> 00:22:39,142
Speaker 2: I'm fascinated by Pete Evans, and I always have been

480
00:22:39,182 --> 00:22:43,582
Speaker 2: because when he was at his peak of influence paleo influence,

481
00:22:43,621 --> 00:22:46,302
Speaker 2: I mean, because obviously he became very famous and built

482
00:22:46,341 --> 00:22:48,262
Speaker 2: up a massive following just being a handsome guy who

483
00:22:48,302 --> 00:22:50,022
Speaker 2: was on My Kitchen Rules and was kind of charming

484
00:22:50,061 --> 00:22:53,382
Speaker 2: next to Manu, right, and everybody liked that. And then

485
00:22:53,502 --> 00:22:56,742
Speaker 2: he became really interested in this Food is Medicine movement.

486
00:22:57,101 --> 00:22:59,262
Speaker 2: And what was fascinating is if you watched his social

487
00:22:59,302 --> 00:23:02,221
Speaker 2: media at that time, which I did. Obviously writing on

488
00:23:02,262 --> 00:23:05,262
Speaker 2: the internet was a He had a huge community, but

489
00:23:05,341 --> 00:23:08,581
Speaker 2: it started from you know, here's some nice salads, here's

490
00:23:08,621 --> 00:23:11,141
Speaker 2: some healthy things to that all looked delicious, and then

491
00:23:11,182 --> 00:23:14,781
Speaker 2: you could watch his slide into Black Lives Matter as

492
00:23:14,782 --> 00:23:18,341
Speaker 2: a conspiracy, COVID as a conspiracy big farmers out to

493
00:23:18,381 --> 00:23:20,542
Speaker 2: get us all, like it's like a case study of

494
00:23:20,661 --> 00:23:23,341
Speaker 2: radicalization if you watched what was happening with him. But

495
00:23:23,462 --> 00:23:25,861
Speaker 2: one of the things that made him so powerful and effective,

496
00:23:26,341 --> 00:23:30,581
Speaker 2: and I would say still makes him quite powerful and effective,

497
00:23:31,101 --> 00:23:33,822
Speaker 2: is that the community that he built up, particularly on Facebook,

498
00:23:33,861 --> 00:23:35,821
Speaker 2: because when he got tossed off those platforms, he had

499
00:23:35,861 --> 00:23:38,741
Speaker 2: and combined following about two million, and I listened to

500
00:23:38,782 --> 00:23:41,581
Speaker 2: this podcast interview that you're talking about Jesse. He is

501
00:23:41,821 --> 00:23:46,101
Speaker 2: entirely unapologetic about absolutely anything, and in fact, he's not

502
00:23:46,222 --> 00:23:48,341
Speaker 2: even whinging about it. He just says, this was my journey,

503
00:23:48,381 --> 00:23:50,302
Speaker 2: and I was. He sees himself very much as a

504
00:23:50,341 --> 00:23:53,701
Speaker 2: sort of messiah in a way. But he had this

505
00:23:53,821 --> 00:23:56,221
Speaker 2: very engaged community who had followed some of his dietary

506
00:23:56,222 --> 00:23:59,221
Speaker 2: advice and found it massively helpful. And those are real people.

507
00:23:59,262 --> 00:24:01,142
Speaker 2: And he said that most of them were women, most

508
00:24:01,182 --> 00:24:03,942
Speaker 2: of them were over forty, and they became his evangelical

509
00:24:04,061 --> 00:24:06,982
Speaker 2: foot soldiers. And I'm not diminishing them in any way.

510
00:24:07,061 --> 00:24:10,181
Speaker 2: The stories were very real about the ways that changing

511
00:24:10,182 --> 00:24:11,782
Speaker 2: the way they ate had made them feel better and

512
00:24:11,821 --> 00:24:14,502
Speaker 2: more energized and all of these things. And if you

513
00:24:14,621 --> 00:24:17,141
Speaker 2: ever wrote anything negative about Pete Evans on the Internet

514
00:24:17,141 --> 00:24:21,061
Speaker 2: in those days, which I did, I'm afraid it's trolling,

515
00:24:21,141 --> 00:24:23,341
Speaker 2: Like I haven't had it on any other topic. People

516
00:24:23,381 --> 00:24:25,861
Speaker 2: would come for you because it men or women, a

517
00:24:25,861 --> 00:24:28,861
Speaker 2: lot both, but a lot of people who genuinely felt

518
00:24:28,901 --> 00:24:31,861
Speaker 2: like this information had been really really helpful to them.

519
00:24:31,942 --> 00:24:33,821
Speaker 2: And who are you to say that it's nonsense? And

520
00:24:33,861 --> 00:24:36,581
Speaker 2: I get that right. But the thing that you then

521
00:24:36,702 --> 00:24:41,022
Speaker 2: saw that's overreach is like eating healthily, cutting out lots

522
00:24:41,061 --> 00:24:43,581
Speaker 2: of processed foods, trying to eat you know, lean meat,

523
00:24:43,621 --> 00:24:46,302
Speaker 2: lots of organic vegetables, all of that stuff. Great, great

524
00:24:46,621 --> 00:24:50,622
Speaker 2: bit privileged, bit special, but great. But then this overstep

525
00:24:50,661 --> 00:24:53,222
Speaker 2: would be and you can cure X, and you can

526
00:24:53,262 --> 00:24:56,462
Speaker 2: cure Y. And the reason your child has this diagnosis

527
00:24:56,502 --> 00:25:00,101
Speaker 2: is because that and it's the overreach and the overreach.

528
00:25:00,141 --> 00:25:04,421
Speaker 2: It's really interesting, and I wonder if that army of

529
00:25:04,462 --> 00:25:08,741
Speaker 2: his is still engaged in mainstream or not, because you

530
00:25:08,782 --> 00:25:10,661
Speaker 2: can't deny that some of the things that he was

531
00:25:10,702 --> 00:25:14,061
Speaker 2: talking about that sort of got him mocked in those days,

532
00:25:14,141 --> 00:25:16,262
Speaker 2: just like Gwyneth Paltrow says this a lot too, and

533
00:25:16,381 --> 00:25:18,982
Speaker 2: now pretty mainstream. If you want to go to Pete

534
00:25:19,022 --> 00:25:22,982
Speaker 2: Evans Retreat, I looked it up. Cost you about two

535
00:25:22,982 --> 00:25:25,461
Speaker 2: grand for two nights to go to the beautiful property

536
00:25:25,502 --> 00:25:28,581
Speaker 2: and have a weekend of wellness. But you're looking at

537
00:25:28,661 --> 00:25:33,462
Speaker 2: you know, magnesium baths, infrared saunas, forest bathing, like this

538
00:25:33,502 --> 00:25:35,342
Speaker 2: is all stuff that lots of people are doing all

539
00:25:35,381 --> 00:25:38,621
Speaker 2: the time. You know, even the heat lamp thing that

540
00:25:38,661 --> 00:25:41,942
Speaker 2: he sold, which was obviously extreme, and he massively overstepped

541
00:25:41,982 --> 00:25:44,742
Speaker 2: by tying it to COVID. But people are in infrared

542
00:25:44,782 --> 00:25:47,302
Speaker 2: saunas at all, kinds of wellness retreats all over the

543
00:25:47,341 --> 00:25:49,421
Speaker 2: place at the moment, and a lot of this stuff

544
00:25:49,422 --> 00:25:53,821
Speaker 2: has become really mainstream. And so his weapon, if you like,

545
00:25:53,901 --> 00:25:56,182
Speaker 2: is saying, well, I was right, I was right.

546
00:25:57,141 --> 00:26:00,661
Speaker 3: And never accepting for it, and never accepting the things

547
00:26:00,702 --> 00:26:02,861
Speaker 3: that he was wrong about. And the issue with a

548
00:26:02,861 --> 00:26:06,821
Speaker 3: lot of these alternative remedies is that they haven't been

549
00:26:06,821 --> 00:26:08,621
Speaker 3: put through clinical trials because a lot of them are

550
00:26:08,621 --> 00:26:12,221
Speaker 3: really difficult to do so, because these are human bodies

551
00:26:12,222 --> 00:26:15,381
Speaker 3: and it would be dangerous. And often traditional medicine doesn't

552
00:26:15,381 --> 00:26:16,941
Speaker 3: say these don't work. They just say we don't have

553
00:26:17,022 --> 00:26:20,662
Speaker 3: enough evidence. And that's the way that science works and evolves.

554
00:26:20,821 --> 00:26:23,462
Speaker 3: And so the criticism of science as well is that, well,

555
00:26:23,462 --> 00:26:25,901
Speaker 3: they told us this, and now it's this. Yes, science

556
00:26:25,982 --> 00:26:29,981
Speaker 3: changes its mind by virtue of running experiments and research studies.

557
00:26:30,061 --> 00:26:30,302
Speaker 1: Right.

558
00:26:31,022 --> 00:26:33,662
Speaker 3: And I listened to this great Ezra Klein episode last

559
00:26:33,661 --> 00:26:37,302
Speaker 3: week about how make America Healthy Again is a bad

560
00:26:37,341 --> 00:26:40,421
Speaker 3: answer to a very good question, and the core of

561
00:26:40,462 --> 00:26:44,342
Speaker 3: it the idea that our diets and processed food and

562
00:26:44,381 --> 00:26:47,701
Speaker 3: maybe medicines that we're taking and all of that have

563
00:26:47,821 --> 00:26:52,902
Speaker 3: contributed to maybe more widespread ill health. The increasing kind

564
00:26:52,942 --> 00:26:56,981
Speaker 3: of diagnosis and stuff isn't necessarily helping. And I was

565
00:26:56,982 --> 00:27:00,142
Speaker 3: thinking about that and a lot of because, as you say, Amelia,

566
00:27:00,262 --> 00:27:04,222
Speaker 3: this rise of illnesses in young people, sort of these

567
00:27:04,341 --> 00:27:07,581
Speaker 3: random cancers in people that appear health like, it's just

568
00:27:07,742 --> 00:27:11,421
Speaker 3: it's horrific. Speaking to a friend recently, and we were saying,

569
00:27:11,982 --> 00:27:14,782
Speaker 3: people who have been diagnosed, gone through the treatment that

570
00:27:14,861 --> 00:27:18,181
Speaker 3: ultimately saved their lives, which is chemo or radiation or

571
00:27:18,182 --> 00:27:21,421
Speaker 3: a mixture or surgery, come out the other end with

572
00:27:21,502 --> 00:27:26,182
Speaker 3: an openness to alternative therapies and a streak of what

573
00:27:26,222 --> 00:27:28,942
Speaker 3: we call WU. And I don't mean that to denigrate

574
00:27:29,022 --> 00:27:31,101
Speaker 3: it at all. I just think it's a really interesting

575
00:27:31,182 --> 00:27:31,702
Speaker 3: data point.

576
00:27:31,782 --> 00:27:33,421
Speaker 2: I think the other reason for that, and this is

577
00:27:33,661 --> 00:27:36,502
Speaker 2: the demographic that Pete Evans says his followers were this

578
00:27:36,581 --> 00:27:40,661
Speaker 2: over forties women. There are so many women who are

579
00:27:40,702 --> 00:27:42,782
Speaker 2: not getting the answers to the questions that they have

580
00:27:42,982 --> 00:27:45,542
Speaker 2: at their GP. And that's where most of us who

581
00:27:45,581 --> 00:27:47,821
Speaker 2: don't have the resources or the access to go to

582
00:27:47,901 --> 00:27:50,302
Speaker 2: a million different specialists and get a million test runs.

583
00:27:50,302 --> 00:27:52,221
Speaker 2: We go to our GP and we say I'm feeling

584
00:27:52,222 --> 00:27:54,422
Speaker 2: like this, I'm feeling like that, and they'll be like, oh,

585
00:27:54,661 --> 00:27:56,542
Speaker 2: just could be nothing, could be this, could be that,

586
00:27:56,581 --> 00:28:00,061
Speaker 2: But they're unsatisfactory answers, and so you go looking online

587
00:28:00,061 --> 00:28:04,661
Speaker 2: for more satisfactory answers. And it doesn't seem massively odd

588
00:28:04,702 --> 00:28:07,101
Speaker 2: that if you change the way you eat and change

589
00:28:07,101 --> 00:28:08,982
Speaker 2: the way you live and start exercising and blah blah

590
00:28:09,022 --> 00:28:11,222
Speaker 2: and you start feel better, that you might feel incredibly

591
00:28:11,222 --> 00:28:15,582
Speaker 2: evangelical about that because it has changed your life. The problem, though,

592
00:28:15,581 --> 00:28:17,862
Speaker 2: the fact that he may well have had an undeniable

593
00:28:17,861 --> 00:28:21,061
Speaker 2: positive impact on some people's health through diet advice, is

594
00:28:21,101 --> 00:28:23,461
Speaker 2: that the other part that goes hand in hand with

595
00:28:23,502 --> 00:28:26,101
Speaker 2: this that really upsets people, and for very good reason,

596
00:28:26,381 --> 00:28:28,581
Speaker 2: is that the core of it all is a kind

597
00:28:28,661 --> 00:28:31,302
Speaker 2: of well, if you're sick, it's your fault. And he

598
00:28:31,341 --> 00:28:33,821
Speaker 2: says on this podcast as well as you know, as

599
00:28:33,821 --> 00:28:36,901
Speaker 2: I say, he's just incredibly confident, incredibly apologetic, but he

600
00:28:36,901 --> 00:28:40,302
Speaker 2: basically says he believes that mindset can cure almost anything,

601
00:28:40,862 --> 00:28:44,062
Speaker 2: and that kind of advice is not only dangerous because

602
00:28:44,062 --> 00:28:46,382
Speaker 2: it can stop people from seeking the treatment that they need,

603
00:28:46,742 --> 00:28:51,181
Speaker 2: but also is emotionally devastating because it really puts the

604
00:28:51,382 --> 00:28:53,461
Speaker 2: what you just didn't fight hard enough, You had the

605
00:28:53,462 --> 00:28:56,262
Speaker 2: wrong mindset, you weren't willing to be disciplined enough with

606
00:28:56,342 --> 00:28:59,342
Speaker 2: your diet, and that is the toxic part of all this.

607
00:28:59,542 --> 00:29:03,022
Speaker 3: You know what, though, Holly, it's also deeply attractive because

608
00:29:03,062 --> 00:29:05,382
Speaker 3: when people run out of options, I mean, there is

609
00:29:05,502 --> 00:29:10,342
Speaker 3: nothing that sparks fearing people like ill health and their mortality.

610
00:29:10,702 --> 00:29:14,142
Speaker 3: You would do anything, you would believe in literally anything,

611
00:29:14,222 --> 00:29:17,102
Speaker 3: And so I have such empathy for people who then

612
00:29:17,222 --> 00:29:20,102
Speaker 3: move to some of these alternative treatments or follow these

613
00:29:20,102 --> 00:29:23,622
Speaker 3: people like gurus, because you know, sometimes you do get

614
00:29:23,622 --> 00:29:25,782
Speaker 3: to the end of the road and all you need

615
00:29:25,862 --> 00:29:26,342
Speaker 3: is hope.

616
00:29:26,462 --> 00:29:28,982
Speaker 2: But it would be like, you know, a populist prime

617
00:29:28,982 --> 00:29:31,461
Speaker 2: minister getting voted in in Australia and putting Pete Evans

618
00:29:31,502 --> 00:29:33,421
Speaker 2: in charge of our health system. It is not that

619
00:29:33,622 --> 00:29:34,302
Speaker 2: different to that.

620
00:29:34,422 --> 00:29:36,822
Speaker 4: Is it. No? And I think the other thing, the

621
00:29:36,902 --> 00:29:40,542
Speaker 4: other lesson that we've learned from the pandemic is that

622
00:29:41,022 --> 00:29:45,421
Speaker 4: silencing these people or deplatforming them to use that expression

623
00:29:45,661 --> 00:29:49,342
Speaker 4: doesn't work. Because Donald Trump was kicked off Twitter too.

624
00:29:49,982 --> 00:29:52,822
Speaker 4: We really crack down on the idea of you're not

625
00:29:52,862 --> 00:29:55,542
Speaker 4: allowed to say certain things on social media platforms, and

626
00:29:55,622 --> 00:29:58,221
Speaker 4: social media companies got on board with that idea. Remember

627
00:29:58,222 --> 00:30:00,822
Speaker 4: there used to be those little warnings during the pandemic

628
00:30:00,862 --> 00:30:04,342
Speaker 4: about medical misinformation on Instagram.

629
00:30:03,702 --> 00:30:05,302
Speaker 3: Some of which ended up being true.

630
00:30:05,661 --> 00:30:08,662
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I think there was this issue of if

631
00:30:08,661 --> 00:30:10,981
Speaker 4: we don't let them speak, then they'll go away, but

632
00:30:11,022 --> 00:30:11,582
Speaker 4: they haven't.

633
00:30:11,902 --> 00:30:14,382
Speaker 3: It's interesting too that we're now telling a story about

634
00:30:14,382 --> 00:30:16,822
Speaker 3: the pandemic, and in this as Reclined episode where he

635
00:30:16,862 --> 00:30:19,582
Speaker 3: interviews experts, they say the two things people have forgotten

636
00:30:19,782 --> 00:30:22,462
Speaker 3: is the death that it's more than one million people died,

637
00:30:22,782 --> 00:30:25,622
Speaker 3: and the second is that the only reason this pandemic

638
00:30:25,702 --> 00:30:29,022
Speaker 3: ended was because of the vaccines. And to have rewritten

639
00:30:29,062 --> 00:30:32,742
Speaker 3: that narrative by now is just a fascinating response.

640
00:30:33,661 --> 00:30:36,022
Speaker 4: The Internet has died, and I know who killed it.

641
00:30:37,222 --> 00:30:40,062
Speaker 4: Let's step back. The Internet's gotten boring, right, You've noticed this.

642
00:30:40,222 --> 00:30:42,421
Speaker 4: Every time I want to procrastinate from work, I go

643
00:30:42,502 --> 00:30:44,822
Speaker 4: on to the Internet, which we used to call the

644
00:30:44,822 --> 00:30:46,902
Speaker 4: information super Highway, and now it's more just like a

645
00:30:46,942 --> 00:30:48,222
Speaker 4: sort of clogged side road.

646
00:30:48,462 --> 00:30:50,142
Speaker 1: It's just sit there's nothing there.

647
00:30:50,302 --> 00:30:52,982
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, okay, there's a reason why the CEO of

648
00:30:53,062 --> 00:30:56,422
Speaker 4: chat gpt. His name is Sam Altman. He has tweeted

649
00:30:56,462 --> 00:31:00,142
Speaker 4: that he now believes in this so called dead Internet theory.

650
00:31:00,502 --> 00:31:03,262
Speaker 4: This is a conspiracy theory which says that the majority

651
00:31:03,262 --> 00:31:06,342
Speaker 4: of content online now is actually generated by bots, it's

652
00:31:06,382 --> 00:31:09,302
Speaker 4: not actually by humans, and that's why the Internet has

653
00:31:09,302 --> 00:31:12,502
Speaker 4: got really boring. And Oltman said that a lot of

654
00:31:12,502 --> 00:31:15,022
Speaker 4: tweets now are being written by l elms, that is,

655
00:31:15,142 --> 00:31:17,942
Speaker 4: large language models, like the one that he produces called

656
00:31:18,022 --> 00:31:22,981
Speaker 4: chat GPT. Now you may wonder why someone who is

657
00:31:22,982 --> 00:31:25,822
Speaker 4: shilling chat gpt is also telling us that it's making

658
00:31:25,862 --> 00:31:29,382
Speaker 4: the Internet bad. It's because he has another company that

659
00:31:29,622 --> 00:31:33,062
Speaker 4: works out whether humans are really posting things online, Like

660
00:31:33,102 --> 00:31:35,981
Speaker 4: you know when it says click the boxes here that

661
00:31:36,142 --> 00:31:38,461
Speaker 4: have motorbikes in them to proof that you're human.

662
00:31:38,902 --> 00:31:39,942
Speaker 1: That's his other company.

663
00:31:40,222 --> 00:31:42,662
Speaker 3: Oh the amount of times I have to prove I'm

664
00:31:42,661 --> 00:31:42,982
Speaker 3: a human?

665
00:31:43,062 --> 00:31:45,342
Speaker 4: Oh and I get it by yeah, I'm like, what

666
00:31:45,382 --> 00:31:46,462
Speaker 4: do you mean by motorbike?

667
00:31:46,582 --> 00:31:48,382
Speaker 1: Like a little bit of a corner here? Is that

668
00:31:48,462 --> 00:31:50,302
Speaker 1: a motive that a pushbike? I have to do it

669
00:31:50,342 --> 00:31:51,182
Speaker 1: like four times.

670
00:31:51,222 --> 00:31:53,502
Speaker 3: Same and it's like the amount of times I get tested.

671
00:31:53,582 --> 00:31:56,262
Speaker 3: I'm like, how many times are they not humans, and

672
00:31:56,302 --> 00:31:57,862
Speaker 3: couldn't you get a bot to do this? I mean,

673
00:31:57,902 --> 00:31:58,742
Speaker 3: I suppose apparently.

674
00:31:58,782 --> 00:32:01,062
Speaker 4: This is the one thing that bots still can't do,

675
00:32:01,222 --> 00:32:03,782
Speaker 4: is they cannot recognize patterns that tell them what things

676
00:32:03,782 --> 00:32:06,182
Speaker 4: are and what things aren't. That's like the one thing

677
00:32:06,222 --> 00:32:07,382
Speaker 4: they haven't figured.

678
00:32:07,062 --> 00:32:10,782
Speaker 2: Out what to do yet. They're threatening highest strata of

679
00:32:11,462 --> 00:32:13,982
Speaker 2: a community's jobs and all of these things, but they

680
00:32:14,022 --> 00:32:17,342
Speaker 2: can't pick a motorbike. They cannot pick a motorbikes.

681
00:32:17,382 --> 00:32:20,622
Speaker 4: While there's in fact these like big warehouses where people

682
00:32:20,942 --> 00:32:25,062
Speaker 4: are trying to train computers to recognize objects bridges, So

683
00:32:25,102 --> 00:32:27,501
Speaker 4: there are people whose whole job it is to be like, hey, computer,

684
00:32:27,622 --> 00:32:29,102
Speaker 4: this is a bridge, this is a bridge, this is

685
00:32:29,142 --> 00:32:29,502
Speaker 4: a bridge.

686
00:32:29,502 --> 00:32:30,822
Speaker 1: I'm hoping eventually.

687
00:32:31,702 --> 00:32:34,262
Speaker 3: I've often thought this about Reddit, though, because I spend

688
00:32:34,262 --> 00:32:36,421
Speaker 3: a lot of time on Reddit, and they'll be a

689
00:32:36,502 --> 00:32:40,181
Speaker 3: mighty asshole. Is a famous kind of Subreddit or today

690
00:32:40,182 --> 00:32:42,782
Speaker 3: I learned or whatever. And you see trends and you

691
00:32:42,822 --> 00:32:45,622
Speaker 3: see patterns, and I've always thought not that it's a bot,

692
00:32:45,702 --> 00:32:48,582
Speaker 3: but that it's someone from Reddit. And same with Twitter. Right,

693
00:32:48,622 --> 00:32:50,302
Speaker 3: it's like someone planting no.

694
00:32:50,302 --> 00:32:50,822
Speaker 1: It's a bot.

695
00:32:50,982 --> 00:32:52,902
Speaker 3: A really yeah?

696
00:32:52,942 --> 00:32:54,622
Speaker 1: And I think you can start to tell now.

697
00:32:54,661 --> 00:32:57,941
Speaker 4: There is in fact a really interesting Wikipedia entry which

698
00:32:57,982 --> 00:33:00,421
Speaker 4: is all about the ways you can tell that something's

699
00:33:00,462 --> 00:33:04,062
Speaker 4: been written by AI and among the many signs are

700
00:33:04,222 --> 00:33:05,941
Speaker 4: an overuse of M dashes.

701
00:33:06,262 --> 00:33:09,142
Speaker 3: Which is an M dash is like a lot.

702
00:33:09,142 --> 00:33:13,942
Speaker 4: Really online, and also a lot of hyperbole, like, for instance,

703
00:33:14,022 --> 00:33:17,022
Speaker 4: the most interesting plant in the world is such and such,

704
00:33:17,302 --> 00:33:19,942
Speaker 4: just because the computer thinks that, because it's being asked

705
00:33:19,942 --> 00:33:22,342
Speaker 4: to write about it, it's a really important topic, which

706
00:33:22,342 --> 00:33:23,422
Speaker 4: is always the case.

707
00:33:23,262 --> 00:33:25,302
Speaker 3: Because you always see as well at the end of articles,

708
00:33:25,342 --> 00:33:29,021
Speaker 3: now you know there's recommended articles just from around the internet,

709
00:33:29,062 --> 00:33:31,702
Speaker 3: and it'll be like, you won't believe what this nineties

710
00:33:31,742 --> 00:33:34,822
Speaker 3: pop star looks like now, and it's a one hundred

711
00:33:34,862 --> 00:33:37,782
Speaker 3: and forty year old AI generated woman from an internet

712
00:33:37,822 --> 00:33:42,422
Speaker 3: website that doesn't exist. It's like, it's just absolute slop.

713
00:33:42,622 --> 00:33:45,382
Speaker 4: It's crap and it's everywhere. So many cures for belly

714
00:33:45,422 --> 00:33:49,382
Speaker 4: fat hah. After the break. The one tip to make

715
00:33:49,422 --> 00:33:50,782
Speaker 4: your small talk better.

716
00:33:51,342 --> 00:33:55,062
Speaker 2: One unlimited out loud access. We dropped episodes every Tuesday

717
00:33:55,102 --> 00:33:59,182
Speaker 2: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link

718
00:33:59,222 --> 00:34:00,941
Speaker 2: in the show notes to get us in your ears

719
00:34:01,222 --> 00:34:03,941
Speaker 2: five days a week. And a huge thank you to

720
00:34:04,142 --> 00:34:05,782
Speaker 2: all our current subscribers.

721
00:34:12,222 --> 00:34:13,942
Speaker 3: Small talk gets a really bad rap.

722
00:34:13,982 --> 00:34:16,142
Speaker 4: I think I think I've heard you say, Holy, you

723
00:34:16,182 --> 00:34:17,262
Speaker 4: don't even like small.

724
00:34:17,062 --> 00:34:19,982
Speaker 2: Talk, so I can't be doing with it okay, And

725
00:34:20,062 --> 00:34:22,501
Speaker 2: I'm also really bad at it. To be honest, Well,

726
00:34:22,862 --> 00:34:24,582
Speaker 2: I haven't just a study for you.

727
00:34:24,701 --> 00:34:27,301
Speaker 4: There's a new study that's come out that explains how

728
00:34:27,342 --> 00:34:28,821
Speaker 4: we can all get better at small talk.

729
00:34:29,181 --> 00:34:31,301
Speaker 2: Actually, I just have to do a little correction to

730
00:34:31,342 --> 00:34:34,542
Speaker 2: the record. Actually, Amelia is because I remember years ago

731
00:34:34,582 --> 00:34:37,421
Speaker 2: when I started working with some young promising journalists called

732
00:34:37,462 --> 00:34:40,102
Speaker 2: Claire and Jesse Stevens. I actually had a word with

733
00:34:40,142 --> 00:34:43,981
Speaker 2: them about small talk beauns right, because they hadn't worked

734
00:34:43,982 --> 00:34:47,142
Speaker 2: in an office before and they didn't know that like

735
00:34:47,181 --> 00:34:49,421
Speaker 2: when somebody comes into the kitchen and says to you,

736
00:34:49,502 --> 00:34:53,461
Speaker 2: like how should that? It was good to engage them

737
00:34:53,661 --> 00:34:55,942
Speaker 2: like smile, say hello when you walk in. And I

738
00:34:56,062 --> 00:34:58,301
Speaker 2: was actually being an advocate for small talk at that

739
00:34:58,422 --> 00:35:00,422
Speaker 2: time in my life, when I was a manager, I

740
00:35:00,462 --> 00:35:02,421
Speaker 2: was like, all be nice to each other, all ask

741
00:35:02,502 --> 00:35:05,462
Speaker 2: each other how your weekends were, smile and nod. But

742
00:35:05,622 --> 00:35:07,981
Speaker 2: now I think maybe my tolerance for it is just warm.

743
00:35:08,462 --> 00:35:10,381
Speaker 2: I don't know so much small talk in you.

744
00:35:10,582 --> 00:35:12,341
Speaker 3: I didn't know that, like it was a learned skill

745
00:35:12,382 --> 00:35:13,942
Speaker 3: for me, that when you enter the office on a

746
00:35:13,942 --> 00:35:17,582
Speaker 3: Monday morning you vocally acknowledge those around you Like that

747
00:35:17,622 --> 00:35:19,382
Speaker 3: doesn't come naturally to me.

748
00:35:19,942 --> 00:35:23,582
Speaker 4: I am going to wager that what you told Jesse

749
00:35:23,982 --> 00:35:26,181
Speaker 4: about how to do small talk is in fact wrong,

750
00:35:28,302 --> 00:35:30,982
Speaker 4: because you know, when we're all taught how to make conversation,

751
00:35:31,181 --> 00:35:32,982
Speaker 4: one of the key rules is that you meant to

752
00:35:33,022 --> 00:35:35,062
Speaker 4: folly back and forth. It's meant to be like a

753
00:35:35,062 --> 00:35:37,062
Speaker 4: game of tennis. I don't play tennis, but this is

754
00:35:37,062 --> 00:35:39,462
Speaker 4: my understanding. I let the tennis correspond to chime in

755
00:35:39,781 --> 00:35:41,942
Speaker 4: where some ask you a question, then you asked them

756
00:35:41,942 --> 00:35:43,942
Speaker 4: a question back. So here's an example of how you

757
00:35:44,022 --> 00:35:46,342
Speaker 4: might do small talk this way. How is your weekend?

758
00:35:46,781 --> 00:35:48,542
Speaker 1: Oh good, I've binge to Netflix you.

759
00:35:49,022 --> 00:35:51,102
Speaker 4: Yeah, I took my dog to the park. Oh nice,

760
00:35:51,142 --> 00:35:52,941
Speaker 4: what sort of dog is he? So do you see

761
00:35:52,942 --> 00:35:55,342
Speaker 4: what happened there? There was just a pinging back and forth.

762
00:35:55,462 --> 00:35:57,701
Speaker 4: It never got anywhere. You didn't ask what they were

763
00:35:57,741 --> 00:35:59,902
Speaker 4: watching on Netflix. It never got below the surface.

764
00:36:00,022 --> 00:36:00,542
Speaker 3: Yeah.

765
00:36:00,661 --> 00:36:03,381
Speaker 4: Now, these psychologists say that you've got to get below

766
00:36:03,422 --> 00:36:05,741
Speaker 4: the surface because that's where human connection is. If you

767
00:36:05,781 --> 00:36:07,781
Speaker 4: stay on the surface, just pinging back and forth, you're

768
00:36:07,822 --> 00:36:10,542
Speaker 4: never going to get anywhere. And they have introduced this

769
00:36:10,582 --> 00:36:14,501
Speaker 4: concept called riffing. It's almost like flirting by another name.

770
00:36:14,661 --> 00:36:17,221
Speaker 4: It's like picking up something that someone said and rather

771
00:36:17,261 --> 00:36:20,102
Speaker 4: than just immediately volleying back a basic question to them,

772
00:36:20,342 --> 00:36:23,062
Speaker 4: making a little joke about it, or starting to sort

773
00:36:23,102 --> 00:36:25,301
Speaker 4: of do a little bit of imaginary play around it.

774
00:36:25,342 --> 00:36:27,542
Speaker 4: Think about kids. When little kids go to the park,

775
00:36:27,622 --> 00:36:30,462
Speaker 4: they're not engaging in small talk. They're immediately like we're

776
00:36:30,542 --> 00:36:34,381
Speaker 4: playing like shipwrecked pirates. You're the pirate, you're the you know,

777
00:36:34,422 --> 00:36:36,422
Speaker 4: the ocean coming up to the ship. But you know,

778
00:36:36,502 --> 00:36:39,301
Speaker 4: they like to just assign roles immediately.

779
00:36:38,862 --> 00:36:41,102
Speaker 2: And not like how are your snacks? My snacks are good.

780
00:36:41,142 --> 00:36:43,701
Speaker 3: And they understand the concept of yes, and that in

781
00:36:43,822 --> 00:36:46,341
Speaker 3: order to socialize you've got to lean in and go yes.

782
00:36:46,422 --> 00:36:48,422
Speaker 3: All of the books I read to Learna are about

783
00:36:48,422 --> 00:36:50,542
Speaker 3: like you might not want to play round and round,

784
00:36:50,982 --> 00:36:53,822
Speaker 3: but you have to in order to get along with Morton.

785
00:36:54,221 --> 00:36:58,222
Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh, really learning these lessons, I guess.

786
00:36:58,261 --> 00:37:01,142
Speaker 4: And this is a famous improvisational technique which says you've

787
00:37:01,181 --> 00:37:03,582
Speaker 4: always got to go along with what someone else proposes.

788
00:37:03,622 --> 00:37:06,341
Speaker 1: So here's how it might play out in small talk

789
00:37:06,781 --> 00:37:09,022
Speaker 1: role play. How is your weekend good?

790
00:37:09,102 --> 00:37:11,461
Speaker 4: But I watched way too many tiktoks of people making

791
00:37:11,502 --> 00:37:16,022
Speaker 4: little food whoall like little food, like dollhouse sized food. Yeah,

792
00:37:16,102 --> 00:37:17,862
Speaker 4: if you want to learn how to make lasagna in

793
00:37:17,942 --> 00:37:19,301
Speaker 4: a dollhouse, let me know.

794
00:37:19,942 --> 00:37:21,022
Speaker 1: That's hilarious.

795
00:37:21,181 --> 00:37:23,861
Speaker 4: We can organize a tiny food poplark and put it

796
00:37:23,902 --> 00:37:25,262
Speaker 4: all on this coaster.

797
00:37:26,502 --> 00:37:28,742
Speaker 1: And it sounds like any.

798
00:37:28,701 --> 00:37:31,982
Speaker 3: Questions, Yeah, it sounds like we're in an episode of Friends.

799
00:37:32,022 --> 00:37:38,142
Speaker 4: That's hilarious. Okay, here's the problem with it. I went

800
00:37:38,181 --> 00:37:41,062
Speaker 4: to the hairdresser this morning and she asked me how

801
00:37:41,102 --> 00:37:42,062
Speaker 4: my father's day was?

802
00:37:42,261 --> 00:37:43,702
Speaker 1: And I just read this article.

803
00:37:43,781 --> 00:37:46,142
Speaker 2: Hold on, yes, and what time do you go to

804
00:37:46,181 --> 00:37:50,942
Speaker 2: the hair in the morning because it's Monday.

805
00:37:53,542 --> 00:37:55,502
Speaker 3: Wow, that's amazing.

806
00:37:56,542 --> 00:38:02,021
Speaker 4: This is my dedication to the VOD format. So she said,

807
00:38:02,221 --> 00:38:05,262
Speaker 4: how was your father's Day? And I said, oh, it's good.

808
00:38:05,462 --> 00:38:07,062
Speaker 4: How's your father's Day? Yeah?

809
00:38:07,142 --> 00:38:09,382
Speaker 1: Good? And I just thought to myself there was no

810
00:38:10,382 --> 00:38:12,502
Speaker 1: to be fair at once seven am. Are you going

811
00:38:12,582 --> 00:38:13,862
Speaker 1: to be able to incorporate riffing?

812
00:38:13,902 --> 00:38:17,502
Speaker 2: HOI let's see if you're on your game and you're

813
00:38:17,542 --> 00:38:20,102
Speaker 2: feeling energetic, then yes, because I have a lot of

814
00:38:20,221 --> 00:38:22,661
Speaker 2: questions for you about the hairdressers. At seven, I am

815
00:38:23,582 --> 00:38:27,542
Speaker 2: not before coffee, but definitely need a coffee. But it

816
00:38:27,661 --> 00:38:30,341
Speaker 2: is true that sometimes because the problem with small talk

817
00:38:30,462 --> 00:38:33,102
Speaker 2: is sometimes you just do it to box tick obviously,

818
00:38:33,142 --> 00:38:35,342
Speaker 2: So I'm like, in the kitchen this morning, cup of tea,

819
00:38:35,422 --> 00:38:37,501
Speaker 2: how is your weekend good? How is your weekend good?

820
00:38:37,701 --> 00:38:42,341
Speaker 2: Awkward size, and then you're kind of like, oh, the

821
00:38:42,382 --> 00:38:44,662
Speaker 2: weather was it? Because it was? The weather was lovely,

822
00:38:44,822 --> 00:38:46,902
Speaker 2: wasn't it. And the thing is is there's a script

823
00:38:46,982 --> 00:38:49,741
Speaker 2: that we I bet there were five different versions more

824
00:38:49,822 --> 00:38:51,861
Speaker 2: of that in the kitchen this morning, where we all

825
00:38:51,862 --> 00:38:54,701
Speaker 2: said exactly the same thing. So I guess the way

826
00:38:54,701 --> 00:38:56,781
Speaker 2: we should have done that is I go, how is

827
00:38:56,822 --> 00:39:00,542
Speaker 2: your weekend? You say good? How was your weekend? I say, well,

828
00:39:01,542 --> 00:39:04,102
Speaker 2: I got some bad news from home. My dog vomited

829
00:39:04,142 --> 00:39:06,542
Speaker 2: on the carpet. I spent way too much time up

830
00:39:06,582 --> 00:39:08,381
Speaker 2: to my ears in horseshit, Like.

831
00:39:08,462 --> 00:39:11,261
Speaker 1: How is The response is that's hilarious.

832
00:39:11,622 --> 00:39:15,021
Speaker 4: We couldn't start a horse stable with all that horseshit, Jesse,

833
00:39:15,181 --> 00:39:16,902
Speaker 4: you had to learn small Yeah.

834
00:39:17,062 --> 00:39:20,622
Speaker 1: How could you could you incorporate this new rule? I

835
00:39:20,661 --> 00:39:21,022
Speaker 1: think so.

836
00:39:21,221 --> 00:39:23,701
Speaker 3: I like the idea and this is something that comes

837
00:39:23,781 --> 00:39:27,701
Speaker 3: up in all the small talk advice is levity, right,

838
00:39:27,822 --> 00:39:29,622
Speaker 3: because I think some people are like, I don't like

839
00:39:29,661 --> 00:39:32,181
Speaker 3: small talk. I'm going to talk about death, and it's like, no,

840
00:39:32,422 --> 00:39:34,622
Speaker 3: not at seven am with the hairdresser people.

841
00:39:34,661 --> 00:39:35,102
Speaker 2: You don't know.

842
00:39:35,342 --> 00:39:35,502
Speaker 4: No.

843
00:39:35,781 --> 00:39:38,382
Speaker 3: So I read this advice from a woman named Alison

844
00:39:38,422 --> 00:39:42,381
Speaker 3: wood Brooks and it's the talk. It's like an acronym talk.

845
00:39:42,822 --> 00:39:46,742
Speaker 3: So the first one stands for topics, and the idea

846
00:39:46,862 --> 00:39:48,542
Speaker 3: is that you know what, before you walk in on

847
00:39:48,542 --> 00:39:51,861
Speaker 3: a Monday morning, maybe have some topics. Yes, it says

848
00:39:52,102 --> 00:39:54,462
Speaker 3: people prepare way more what they're going to wear the

849
00:39:54,502 --> 00:39:56,221
Speaker 3: next day than what they're going to talk about. We

850
00:39:56,261 --> 00:39:57,661
Speaker 3: put so much thought into what we're going to wear,

851
00:39:57,701 --> 00:39:59,942
Speaker 3: and then we get in and we're like, like, someone's

852
00:39:59,942 --> 00:40:02,701
Speaker 3: going to ask you about your weekend. Have a think

853
00:40:02,741 --> 00:40:03,542
Speaker 3: what you're going to say?

854
00:40:03,741 --> 00:40:05,861
Speaker 2: This is because I do this to my kids, right,

855
00:40:06,062 --> 00:40:08,341
Speaker 2: is that if I'm going to take my kids too,

856
00:40:08,422 --> 00:40:10,181
Speaker 2: now that they're older and they or you know, they

857
00:40:10,181 --> 00:40:13,102
Speaker 2: can be little kids are entertaining for everybody, but teenagers

858
00:40:13,422 --> 00:40:15,661
Speaker 2: they'll be like, oh oh, they're going to be on

859
00:40:15,661 --> 00:40:17,741
Speaker 2: a call with their grandma for a while, and they're like, oh,

860
00:40:17,781 --> 00:40:19,942
Speaker 2: I want to be doing this. I'm like, think of

861
00:40:19,982 --> 00:40:22,862
Speaker 2: one story. Think of one story you're going to tell grandma.

862
00:40:23,062 --> 00:40:24,942
Speaker 2: Or when we go to this thing today, they're all

863
00:40:24,942 --> 00:40:27,262
Speaker 2: going to want to know, Matilda about your grand final

864
00:40:27,302 --> 00:40:29,902
Speaker 2: and Billy how you're doing at school. Those are boring questions.

865
00:40:29,942 --> 00:40:32,102
Speaker 2: Think of a good story, just one yeah story.

866
00:40:32,221 --> 00:40:32,741
Speaker 3: Yeah.

867
00:40:32,781 --> 00:40:35,381
Speaker 2: So I prep them like that, And so what you're

868
00:40:35,422 --> 00:40:37,942
Speaker 2: saying is we should all be prepping like that before

869
00:40:37,982 --> 00:40:40,741
Speaker 2: we step into the arena of conversation.

870
00:40:41,062 --> 00:40:44,022
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I actually I ran into someone yesterday who's

871
00:40:44,062 --> 00:40:47,902
Speaker 3: like an acquaintance, and weirdly he had been on my

872
00:40:47,982 --> 00:40:49,942
Speaker 3: mind because of the last conversation we had. So as

873
00:40:49,982 --> 00:40:51,582
Speaker 3: soon as I saw him, it wasn't awkward because I

874
00:40:51,582 --> 00:40:53,142
Speaker 3: was like, oh, my goodness, I'm so glad I ran

875
00:40:53,142 --> 00:40:55,062
Speaker 3: into you. I've been meaning to tell you black Like,

876
00:40:55,302 --> 00:40:57,102
Speaker 3: so that sort of thing is meant to be really good.

877
00:40:57,181 --> 00:40:59,341
Speaker 4: Can we role play what should I have done at

878
00:40:59,382 --> 00:41:02,102
Speaker 4: the hairdresser when she said, how is your father's day?

879
00:41:02,701 --> 00:41:04,741
Speaker 2: I think he should have prepared like.

880
00:41:05,781 --> 00:41:08,181
Speaker 4: You know, what's interesting. We tried a new method of

881
00:41:08,181 --> 00:41:11,622
Speaker 4: cooking steak, boiled it at the end, and does anyone

882
00:41:11,661 --> 00:41:12,142
Speaker 4: want to hear me?

883
00:41:12,382 --> 00:41:15,422
Speaker 2: Yes, you need to think of one interesting thing that

884
00:41:15,502 --> 00:41:17,381
Speaker 2: happened on your Father's day. Give me one.

885
00:41:17,422 --> 00:41:23,222
Speaker 1: Now that was that technique. I'm sorry, steak.

886
00:41:23,582 --> 00:41:25,261
Speaker 3: I'm going to give you the next and then you

887
00:41:25,302 --> 00:41:27,582
Speaker 3: have to do it. Okay, A is for asking, So

888
00:41:27,622 --> 00:41:29,622
Speaker 3: then you have to ask Holly a question based off

889
00:41:29,622 --> 00:41:31,702
Speaker 3: your Okay, maybe did you have steak?

890
00:41:31,822 --> 00:41:34,062
Speaker 1: Yeah? What's your preferred method of cooking stack?

891
00:41:34,142 --> 00:41:36,982
Speaker 3: Yes? Perfect? And then Holly say I.

892
00:41:36,822 --> 00:41:39,142
Speaker 2: Didn't cook the steak. My friend did, but she's very

893
00:41:39,181 --> 00:41:41,542
Speaker 2: good at cooking steak, and she made garlic butter with it.

894
00:41:41,661 --> 00:41:43,262
Speaker 1: Oh, now that's hilarious.

895
00:41:43,781 --> 00:41:48,181
Speaker 3: And then that brings us to levity or lightness. That's

896
00:41:48,261 --> 00:41:50,741
Speaker 3: hilarious levity because then Holly is going to say I

897
00:41:50,781 --> 00:41:51,741
Speaker 3: can't cook ha haha.

898
00:41:52,622 --> 00:41:55,022
Speaker 2: I'm going to say I probably had too much garlic butter.

899
00:41:55,181 --> 00:41:57,142
Speaker 2: Don't come too close to me this morning.

900
00:41:57,502 --> 00:41:59,782
Speaker 4: But then tell me what is is it kissing?

901
00:41:59,862 --> 00:42:02,781
Speaker 3: No, it's kindness, and you're going to say you don't stink.

902
00:42:06,382 --> 00:42:06,862
Speaker 2: Exactly.

903
00:42:07,022 --> 00:42:10,821
Speaker 3: Generosity apparently meant to come into situation and go, what

904
00:42:10,902 --> 00:42:12,821
Speaker 3: does this person you know? Sometimes you have small talk

905
00:42:12,862 --> 00:42:14,582
Speaker 3: and you go, oh, this person seems a little nervous.

906
00:42:14,622 --> 00:42:16,422
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, my job is to make this person

907
00:42:16,502 --> 00:42:20,422
Speaker 3: feel comfortable or less overwhelmed or whatever. And so it's

908
00:42:20,462 --> 00:42:23,022
Speaker 3: about like bringing generosity.

909
00:42:22,382 --> 00:42:24,862
Speaker 1: To ask levity kindness.

910
00:42:24,942 --> 00:42:25,622
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like that.

911
00:42:25,862 --> 00:42:26,301
Speaker 1: I love it.

912
00:42:26,542 --> 00:42:28,941
Speaker 2: You haven't told us one interesting thing about your father's day?

913
00:42:29,022 --> 00:42:30,781
Speaker 3: Oh, one interesting thing about my father's day.

914
00:42:30,942 --> 00:42:32,701
Speaker 2: Did you make a fuss with all the fathers in

915
00:42:32,741 --> 00:42:33,262
Speaker 2: your life?

916
00:42:33,502 --> 00:42:35,781
Speaker 3: Yes? And I bought my dad a new T shirt.

917
00:42:35,781 --> 00:42:37,261
Speaker 3: He already had this T shirt. He wore it too

918
00:42:37,342 --> 00:42:39,301
Speaker 3: much and washed it too much that it was destroyed.

919
00:42:39,462 --> 00:42:42,781
Speaker 3: I've recommended threadheads on here before and it's a collage

920
00:42:42,822 --> 00:42:46,862
Speaker 3: of the girl's faces and lunar and it says pop

921
00:42:46,942 --> 00:42:49,822
Speaker 3: is the best on it. And so now we've decided

922
00:42:49,862 --> 00:42:51,542
Speaker 3: that he just can't wash it because the images will

923
00:42:51,542 --> 00:42:51,741
Speaker 3: come on.

924
00:42:51,862 --> 00:42:52,741
Speaker 1: Can I riff on that?

925
00:42:53,502 --> 00:42:59,222
Speaker 4: I got my partner some socks that have our two kids'

926
00:42:59,261 --> 00:42:59,781
Speaker 4: faces on.

927
00:43:03,261 --> 00:43:04,942
Speaker 3: Oh, that's got just brought them online.

928
00:43:05,221 --> 00:43:11,382
Speaker 2: Okay, very levity with that. Something new afoot in the

929
00:43:11,661 --> 00:43:21,102
Speaker 2: Melia Lester household. That was terrible cut cut, Oh dear, okay,

930
00:43:21,342 --> 00:43:24,221
Speaker 2: on that note, not that classy, classy, very neat.

931
00:43:24,382 --> 00:43:27,741
Speaker 3: We do need to practice, We need to practice more.

932
00:43:28,422 --> 00:43:32,582
Speaker 2: But that's all we've got time for today. The more

933
00:43:32,661 --> 00:43:36,261
Speaker 2: small talk. A massive thank you to all of you

934
00:43:36,342 --> 00:43:38,422
Speaker 2: for being with us here on today's show, and of

935
00:43:38,462 --> 00:43:40,782
Speaker 2: course to our fabulous team for putting it together. Friends,

936
00:43:40,822 --> 00:43:43,582
Speaker 2: don't forget that the reason Amelia got her head done

937
00:43:43,822 --> 00:43:45,821
Speaker 2: and the reason I got the date wrong today is

938
00:43:45,862 --> 00:43:48,582
Speaker 2: because we are making video here. And if you want

939
00:43:48,622 --> 00:43:51,261
Speaker 2: to watch the show instead of listening, or as well

940
00:43:51,261 --> 00:43:53,821
Speaker 2: as listening, you will find us on YouTube. We'll see

941
00:43:53,822 --> 00:43:54,342
Speaker 2: you tomorrow.

942
00:43:54,502 --> 00:43:57,862
Speaker 3: Bye bye. Shout out to any Mum and me a

943
00:43:57,942 --> 00:44:00,781
Speaker 3: subscribers listening. If you love the show and you want

944
00:44:00,781 --> 00:44:03,462
Speaker 3: to support us, subscribing to Mom and Mia is the

945
00:44:03,622 --> 00:44:06,062
Speaker 3: very best way to do so. There's a link in

946
00:44:06,102 --> 00:44:07,102
Speaker 3: the episode description.

947
00:44:09,982 --> 00:44:11,382
Speaker 4: They be s

948
00:44:12,302 --> 00:44:18,142
Speaker 2: Intand they should be the SA