Speaker 1: We acknowledged the traditional custodians of the land.
Speaker 2: We're recording on today.
Speaker 3: I never get it to men older women and they
Speaker 3: come up and they go, are you with mother? And
Speaker 3: I say yes, like could you look like the nanny
Speaker 3: or you look like the hell?
Speaker 4: Oh my god, Hello, and welcome back to eat, sleep,
Speaker 4: shit repeat in the podcast all about the madness that
Speaker 4: is motherhood and everything in between. It's quite an unhinged time,
Speaker 4: but it's a bloody jolly time. I am Kelly McCarron,
Speaker 4: I'm Kyrisels and we are thrilled to be back in
Speaker 4: your ears for another wild week.
Speaker 1: In case you missed it, last week, we had a
Speaker 1: little bit of a giggle chuckle. We were a gaggle
Speaker 1: of gigglers, if you will, about all the things I
Speaker 1: swear we'd weird, Holy moly, we'd never do before having kids,
Speaker 1: so we absolutely did do after we have them. And
Speaker 1: my neck is still hurting from.
Speaker 2: All that flash.
Speaker 1: Well, this week we're taking a little bit more of
Speaker 1: a serious turn. We're exploring the intricacies of race, biracial
Speaker 1: and multiracial babies, how to ensure that they're connected to
Speaker 1: their culture in a world that is largely whitewashed.
Speaker 4: Both Key and our lovely shitter Juliet will be chatting
Speaker 4: through their experiences. But first it is my turn. Yes,
Speaker 4: it is for peak and Hit. My hit is that
Speaker 4: I'm extremely.
Speaker 2: Overwhelmed at the moment.
Speaker 4: And my problem is that instead of I think a
Speaker 4: lot of people do this, Instead of actually getting through
Speaker 4: my to do list when I'm overwhelmed, I procrastinate, Oh yeah, class,
Speaker 4: And I sit there and I watch below Deck, and
Speaker 4: I play Candy Crush on my phone or Block Blast,
Speaker 4: or I do my puzzle and I just procrastinate and
Speaker 4: I do it all the time at the moment because
Speaker 4: I'm so overwhelmed, and then that makes me more stressed
Speaker 4: and overwhelmed.
Speaker 2: About my to do list.
Speaker 4: And I'm not that busy, and I'm so aware of
Speaker 4: my privilege, like I've got one kid, I work for myself.
Speaker 4: I'm not that busy. But it's just the mountain of crap,
Speaker 4: like just the top of my mind of the things
Speaker 4: that I have to do.
Speaker 2: Let me run you through them.
Speaker 4: No feelure like there's a bunch of new furniture that
Speaker 4: it's arriving at the moment.
Speaker 2: So I need to get rid of other furniture.
Speaker 4: Otherwise we're going to be in a horder's house where
Speaker 4: there's just furniture on top of furniture.
Speaker 1: And yeah, weirdly I can relate. You actually can relate
Speaker 1: to that.
Speaker 4: At the moment, I'm overdue for a skin check. And
Speaker 4: when you start like wigging out shout out to Keys'
Speaker 4: the pod about these things, then you're like you spiral
Speaker 4: and you're like, oh my god, I'm dying of skin cancer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and on top of a brain aneurysm.
Speaker 4: So I'm like, oh my god, I'm so overdue for
Speaker 4: my skin check. And I also need to go see
Speaker 4: my psychologist again. Plus I need to make an appointment
Speaker 4: for my psychiatrist. These are all very expensive as well.
Speaker 4: I haven't been to the dentist for a few years,
Speaker 4: and I've got a really sore jaw.
Speaker 1: I reckon, you've got a cavity. That's great, too low.
Speaker 4: Great, that's great. So I need to make an appointment
Speaker 4: for the dentist. When am I supposed to fit all
Speaker 4: of these appointments in. I've got thirty different videos to edit.
Speaker 4: I've got so much content that I just don't have
Speaker 4: time to edit. I need to go get my uterus
Speaker 4: scanned again. I'm overdue with that, so then once again
Speaker 4: spiral into that. Well, it must be a big old tumor.
Speaker 4: In the time that it's taken me to waste time
Speaker 4: and not get the new scan, it's turned from a
Speaker 4: cyst to a tumor. That's how my brain works, of course,
Speaker 4: because health anxiety hyper contriact. It's probably just another cyst
Speaker 4: and also grows. I don't want to have be inserted
Speaker 4: I know, at all, let alone by a random and
Speaker 4: scan place. Yeah, so those things are on my mind,
Speaker 4: like Lenny constantly being sick. We've had chest infections. There's
Speaker 4: a fine apparently I ran a red light. I did
Speaker 4: not run a red light. The photos clearly show another car.
Speaker 4: All of these things collectively don't take time. I'm just
Speaker 4: so overwhelmed. Let alone, I haven't done my baths, I
Speaker 4: haven't done my tax so my pit is just very overwhelmed.
Speaker 4: All my own fault, and I'm a procrastinator.
Speaker 1: But can I just say, we weren't meant to have
Speaker 1: this many things to do. Life has become very overwhelming,
Speaker 1: very busy, very busy, very overwhelming, and I just actually
Speaker 1: don't think that we were meant to be this busy
Speaker 1: lit We definitely.
Speaker 4: And this is on top of trying to maintain a
Speaker 4: social life, trying to go to the gym.
Speaker 2: Twice a week, trying to run a business.
Speaker 4: Trying to run a business, trying to make sure income's
Speaker 4: coming in, trying to entertain your child.
Speaker 1: Like, there's just a lot. So I think it's really relatable.
Speaker 1: I'm seeing me right now, mirror.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're not a procrastinator though, but you're very overwhelmed.
Speaker 2: Don't ever download a game onto your phone.
Speaker 4: If anyone does have a tangible hack for me, or
Speaker 4: if you're also a big procrastinator and get overwhelmed and
Speaker 4: you've got like a tangible hack, not delete all the
Speaker 4: games off your phone, okay, because they I also enjoy them.
Speaker 1: I saw this method. Basically, it said, like set your
Speaker 1: day up and allocate a certain amount of time to
Speaker 1: each activity or each item on your checklist that you
Speaker 1: need to do, and do that item for that amount
Speaker 1: of time and you stop, right, and then you move
Speaker 1: on to the next thing. Now. Then that then informs
Speaker 1: your to do list for the next day, right. But
Speaker 1: the trick is is that you chip off a little
Speaker 1: bit of each task. In some cases you can do
Speaker 1: all of it in one go. In some cases you
Speaker 1: get halfway through, but then the overwhelm is less because
Speaker 1: you are getting through a lot of things on your
Speaker 1: checklist in some capacity, maybe not one hundred percent, but
Speaker 1: things are going down. And that to me felt like, Okay,
Speaker 1: that could be good, Like because you know what happens,
Speaker 1: you do something in the morning and you blow out
Speaker 1: for the rest of the day. It's like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you do something for a certain amount of time.
Speaker 2: If something's really urgent, when you have to finish it.
Speaker 1: Well, then I think obviously there are exceptions to the rule, right,
Speaker 1: if something is urgent, you have to get that done first. Yes,
Speaker 1: But if we're talking about scheduling appointments, you can do
Speaker 1: half an hour schedule your dentist in yeah. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: you just say I'm going to do half an hour
Speaker 1: of calls to schedule and all my appointments done.
Speaker 4: I really like that the way that my brain works.
Speaker 4: I'd be like, okay, here you go, here's half an
Speaker 4: hour where you've got to like make all your scheduling things.
Speaker 4: So I'd pick up my phone and I'd open the
Speaker 4: caller thing to call the doctor or whatever, and then
Speaker 4: I'd be like, oh, fuck, five people called me s
Speaker 4: they didn't return one call.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm just going to text them.
Speaker 4: Then I open my messages and I'm like, oh, three
Speaker 4: hundred text messages, and then shit, what are my email
Speaker 4: situations like? And then I'm going to open my email
Speaker 4: and then I'm going to get distracted by oh my god,
Speaker 4: I haven't posted anything on Insta for the like, and
Speaker 4: then the half an hour's up and I'm like, you
Speaker 4: didn't book one appointment, sis.
Speaker 1: But I think you have to catch yourself in those
Speaker 1: moments and not let yourself switch tasks.
Speaker 2: It's just about Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think with a bit of work, it could work
Speaker 1: for you. What is your peak?
Speaker 4: Then? My peak is so superficial. Oh I've been shopping
Speaker 4: a lot lately.
Speaker 1: Ah, I love it. I love it, and I.
Speaker 2: Just want to give a shout out to shopping.
Speaker 4: I know that you know, things aren't supposed to make
Speaker 4: us happy, no, but my golly do they.
Speaker 1: I love to shop.
Speaker 2: I love things.
Speaker 4: Some people are more into things and stuff than other people.
Speaker 2: I love stuff.
Speaker 4: I love things like little treats and all of that
Speaker 4: crap that is now like trendy. But I'm like, no, No,
Speaker 4: I've just done that my whole life, Like I really
Speaker 4: enjoy purchasing things, so I'm feeling very joyful at the
Speaker 4: moment as things are arriving that I bought in like
Speaker 4: a scramble for end of year sales, and.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I don't buy anything in the sales. I'm
Speaker 1: so dry.
Speaker 2: It's silly.
Speaker 4: And I just sometimes really love how unhinged I am
Speaker 4: and I just do not care. Yeah, and it bothers
Speaker 4: other people so much more than it bothers me, Like
Speaker 4: it's your money. I was shopping and I bought this
Speaker 4: dress and the lady was like, what's the occasion for,
Speaker 4: because it is an occasion dress, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 4: no occasion, it's just you know, good price. But I
Speaker 4: actually am building my summer holiday capsual wardrobe, like for
Speaker 4: all of my outfits. She goes, oh, where are you going,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, oh, no, I can't get anything booked,
Speaker 4: and she just looked at me like I was alien.
Speaker 4: And then I'm like, the next day, I'm sending key
Speaker 4: pictures of Lenny's little summer holiday. It's flat light, matching
Speaker 4: hat and nice shirt, all with those shorts and overalls
Speaker 4: like all of these things are arriving, and he's like,
Speaker 4: I think you need to book a holiday.
Speaker 1: But I've also just.
Speaker 4: Been ordering furniture, and there's just I've been spending a
Speaker 4: bit of money. Obviously, this is coming from a very
Speaker 4: privileged position in a time where there is a cost
Speaker 4: of living crisis, and it wasn't a great financial year
Speaker 4: for me last year. But the reason why we work
Speaker 4: is not just to pay for rent or mortgage or food.
Speaker 4: It is to be able to enjoy things. I've been
Speaker 4: buying furniture and the little So it's just a reminder
Speaker 4: that if you can, like, unless you're sort of just
Speaker 4: making ends meat, money is there to spend and enjoy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, you know what I do. I buy fancy
Speaker 1: stuff at the supermarket if I want to feel it woe.
Speaker 1: I buy low pa but organic, free range eggs.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, fancy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm buying serena tuna. Okay, that's expensive, Okay, Okay,
Speaker 1: So those are how I like to treat myself in
Speaker 1: my every day It's.
Speaker 4: Like, that's like a lot less unhinged than me splashing
Speaker 4: hundreds of dollars dresses that I don't actually have a
Speaker 4: purpose to wear them anyway.
Speaker 2: Shopping shop to your drop go around.
Speaker 1: So today we are talking about raising biracial or multi
Speaker 1: racial babies in Australia. It's something that we briefly touched
Speaker 1: on in a Q and A that we did towards
Speaker 1: the end of last year or beginning of the year
Speaker 1: I forget, and something that is becoming more kind of
Speaker 1: on my radar as Rue gets older.
Speaker 4: It is one of those topics that we always do
Speaker 4: get questions about, and not as much as some other topics.
Speaker 4: But I think that this is a really important episode.
Speaker 4: So even if you're not bi racial, I think that
Speaker 4: you need to listen to this episode because it's going
Speaker 4: to help you understand different things definitely people with biracial
Speaker 4: kids as well are going through. And also make sure
Speaker 4: that you're not using different microaggresses in your language.
Speaker 2: Definitely we can go through that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. Well, when I was doing a bit of
Speaker 1: research for this, I came across two reasons why I
Speaker 1: think the topic is actually really important that we talk
Speaker 1: about on the pod. And I think a large majority
Speaker 1: of white people don't really understand why this might be
Speaker 1: a big deal to them personally.
Speaker 4: I don't think a lot of white people realize how
Speaker 4: bad racism is in Australia. Yeah, because I think that
Speaker 4: a lot of people think of racism as the most
Speaker 4: extreme version of racism or within that sort of.
Speaker 1: Orbit.
Speaker 4: But racism is a spectrum with everything, and there are
Speaker 4: some things that are minor, but they're still microaggressions and
Speaker 4: they still have a long term impact on people of color.
Speaker 4: And we also need to listen to people of color
Speaker 4: when they're saying, no, Australians is still really racist, Australia
Speaker 4: is so racist. Listen to them rather than going oh, no,
Speaker 4: we're not.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I'll never forget this one dude, he was like running
Speaker 4: a stall in Spain and he said he was like, oh,
Speaker 4: I lived in Australia for a while, and we were like, oh,
Speaker 4: what did you think? He was actually living in Brisbane.
Speaker 4: Funnily enough, and he said, oh I had to leave.
Speaker 4: It was the most racist place I've ever been to.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I did not expect that response, because most of the
Speaker 4: time when you speak that, oh azi, I don't know
Speaker 4: why he's American, he's not. It was Spanish, but like
Speaker 4: Australians is so friendly or it's so nice there.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: No, he was like I hated it. I had to leave.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really interesting and it is really true, and
Speaker 1: I think it's definitely because of kind of how our
Speaker 1: country started, how far away we are, the different people
Speaker 1: that have immigrated here. I just think that we're a
Speaker 1: little bit behind, and also just exposure, Like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it's getting better, but there's still a lot to
Speaker 1: talk about. So I came across this really great article
Speaker 1: that was written a couple of years ago by a
Speaker 1: former colleague. Her name is Nama Winston, and she wrote
Speaker 1: this for the ABC. It was called teaching Biracial Kids
Speaker 1: to be Proud of their Heritage, and in it she
Speaker 1: talks to other biracial and multiracial Australians the why because
Speaker 1: constantly explaining your identity feels exhausting. It's laborious to always
Speaker 1: have to explain yourself and the intricacies of your heritage
Speaker 1: to others just so that they can quote unquote placed you.
Speaker 1: And sometimes the answer isn't always good enough. Like I
Speaker 1: think I may have told you the story of a
Speaker 1: stranger who had never met that came up to meet
Speaker 1: the art gallery in Sydney. I was there to look
Speaker 1: at the Archer Bold and I was with my godmother
Speaker 1: and we were towards the end of the exhibition and
Speaker 1: this man, white man in his fifties comes up to me.
Speaker 1: Haven't spoken to him at all. That's weird as well,
Speaker 1: it's very weird. And so he said to me, oh,
Speaker 1: what's your heritage? And I said, I'm black and i'm
Speaker 1: might and he said what kind of black? And I said, well,
Speaker 1: I'm African American and he said, no, you look more
Speaker 1: like a Torres Stralia island. At the hair. You definitely
Speaker 1: look more Torri Australia.
Speaker 4: Then, Stuart, you must know better than me where I'm from, exactly.
Speaker 4: And I just also, what is his name Stewart because
Speaker 4: she sounds like a boomer. Yeah, bit of a racist
Speaker 4: dad name. No offense to any Stuarts.
Speaker 1: No, I've got a friend called Steward's okay, great, But
Speaker 1: in that moment, like anything you say sometimes just won't
Speaker 1: even be enough for someone. So it's like, why are
Speaker 1: you asking me if you've already predetermined the answer? And
Speaker 1: what I say Torres straight ilean exactly. And it's just
Speaker 1: as very much a sense of being othered. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: you know, it's just never good enough.
Speaker 4: It's just literally looking at one thing and making a
Speaker 4: assumption exactly, but it's stupid assumption.
Speaker 1: And the second thing that I got from this article
Speaker 1: was the direct result of constantly being questioned about your heritage.
Speaker 1: So NAMA rights, many biracial and multi racial people struggle
Speaker 1: with a perceived need to explain or even defend their
Speaker 1: identity like I did. Feeling inauthentic in some part of
Speaker 1: your heritage has been informally called racial imposter syndrome. For
Speaker 1: some of these feelings emerge from an early age and
Speaker 1: continue into adulthood. So my hope in having this conversation
Speaker 1: today on the pod is that we shed a little
Speaker 1: bit of light on this so that collectively we can
Speaker 1: all contribute to instilling pride amongst our biracial and multiracial
Speaker 1: kids that we are raising and that live in our communities.
Speaker 4: On that note, how did you find growing up? About
Speaker 4: how hard you found it? You were raised by your grandparents.
Speaker 4: They were obviously from a completely different generation and of
Speaker 4: white heritage, So how did they guide you and how
Speaker 4: did that impact on you?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, they didn't know how to like aunt me
Speaker 1: up on my heritage, right because they weren't from that
Speaker 1: heritage and they were from a different generation. I never
Speaker 1: felt bad or different because of my appearance or anything
Speaker 1: like that, or embarrassed of who I was, because our
Speaker 1: family was quite a multi cultural family, and that my
Speaker 1: mom's brother, so my uncle, so my mum's white. My
Speaker 1: uncle married my aunt who was Samoan, and I spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time with her and her three girls
Speaker 1: growing up when we lived in New Zealand, and she
Speaker 1: was just always so proud about being Somemoan and I
Speaker 1: just had that. I guess I had that role model
Speaker 1: in her, and so I never felt bad about it. It
Speaker 1: was never a weird thing. But also where I lived
Speaker 1: in you, New Zealand was such a melting pot, like
Speaker 1: I lived in the city in Wellington, and New Zealand
Speaker 1: super multicultural and diverse. I didn't stick out at all,
Speaker 1: like it was so normal. But I think really where
Speaker 1: a lot of my insecurity around my identity or my
Speaker 1: cultural identity came into play was when my grandparents retired
Speaker 1: and they made a decision to move to Australia, and
Speaker 1: because I was living with them, it meant that I
Speaker 1: also had to move to Australia.
Speaker 2: So and they didn't move to Sydney or Melbourne.
Speaker 1: No, Brisbane, Australia. And it wasn't even Brisbane the city,
Speaker 1: like it was a suburb. Yes, So it was like
Speaker 1: noticeably different. It was a really white, suburban Australian.
Speaker 2: Place like soundthing where I grew up exactly, And I
Speaker 2: just was.
Speaker 1: Very confused even walking down the street being in the
Speaker 1: city of Brisbane. I was like, where is the cultural diversity?
Speaker 1: It was so confusing as a young person, and then suddenly,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I just felt very different yep
Speaker 1: from everyone else.
Speaker 2: Which wouldn't have been nice at all.
Speaker 1: No, I mean, and it's when you're already questioning who
Speaker 1: you are as.
Speaker 4: A person, so you're a teenager, yeah, well I just
Speaker 4: have enough angst without having to deal with that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It was a really trying time, and I think
Speaker 1: just the more older I got, it was just more,
Speaker 1: you know, different questions that would come up.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: It was already feeling so different because my grandparents were
Speaker 1: raising me and my mum wasn't around, and I felt
Speaker 1: like I always had to kind of answer those questions.
Speaker 1: But then it was also like, well why are you black? Yeah,
Speaker 1: if your grandparents are why And it's like, so.
Speaker 4: I'm thinking about that mean girl scene, but why are
Speaker 4: you wait so far from Africa?
Speaker 1: Why are you wait? Oh my god, Karen, you can't
Speaker 1: just ask people why they're white exactly. You can't ask
Speaker 1: someone no why they're black. And it's really difficult because again,
Speaker 1: asking a kid to give you all the answers.
Speaker 2: It's like we.
Speaker 1: Shouldn't be asking children to explain themselves, especially about things
Speaker 1: that are actually really personal, Like excuse me if I
Speaker 1: don't want to stand there and be interrogated about my
Speaker 1: historical because.
Speaker 2: I've got a different skin color and hair.
Speaker 1: And also, like I get it, you're curious wonder in
Speaker 1: your heads, Like normal things need to be said out loud,
Speaker 1: especially about something that's who I am. You can compliment me, sure,
Speaker 1: if you need to compliment me, but I don't need
Speaker 1: to be interrogated. And I think that's what is obviously
Speaker 1: front of mind when I'm thinking about raising Roe as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's quite funny that you say that it
Speaker 4: is front of mind because that's what you're thinking, because
Speaker 4: then you assume, my guess that everyone's thinking now, because
Speaker 4: recently I asked someone what their background was and he
Speaker 4: went into like I grew up here and then moved
Speaker 4: here and then but I've been here for fifteen years
Speaker 4: or whatever.
Speaker 2: And I was like, I meant, like with work, but oh.
Speaker 1: Great, Okay. He obviously gets asked that all the time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I was just so funny because yeah, it
Speaker 4: was obviously the thing that.
Speaker 2: He and he was like like, totally funny.
Speaker 4: It was just like olah blah blah, grubb your butt.
Speaker 4: But I sort of meant, how long have you been
Speaker 4: doing this? Like what's your work background? Yeah, that was
Speaker 4: my fault. Clearly, I didn't articulate enough. It's just it's
Speaker 4: quite funny because I guess the assumption is is that's
Speaker 4: what a white person must always mean if they're asking
Speaker 4: right exactly.
Speaker 1: And I think that that proves the point of just
Speaker 1: like what happened to say, Yeah, how kind of textbook
Speaker 1: we get without answers? And look, I get it in
Speaker 1: some ways because sometimes it's like when someone says, what
Speaker 1: school did you go to?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I still don't understand that.
Speaker 1: No, but like it's a question, right, and I get.
Speaker 2: You're just trying to make conversations sometimes.
Speaker 1: Exactly, and I get the innocence behind it. It's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm talking to this person, I don't know much about them.
Speaker 1: How am I going to find out more about them?
Speaker 1: And just I get it, like there's an innocence and
Speaker 1: that for sure, but.
Speaker 4: Then don't ever push back on that and try to
Speaker 4: argue with the person I'm saying, Like, if someone asks
Speaker 4: you where you're from, I'm from Australia. I did grow
Speaker 4: up in New Zealand lived in York for a while.
Speaker 2: Australian.
Speaker 1: Though, we don't need to be like, but why are
Speaker 1: you black? But why?
Speaker 2: And also sure you're not Torres Strait Islands, Like.
Speaker 1: I'm not gorgeous, but I'm not.
Speaker 4: Like it's just like, why are you arguing about where
Speaker 4: I'm from?
Speaker 1: Exactly?
Speaker 2: Talk to me about Rue?
Speaker 4: How has your experience growing up in Brisbane impact on
Speaker 4: how you're going to raise her? And we've touched on
Speaker 4: the fact that you only find verse toys and books,
Speaker 4: but what about the things or interactions that are out
Speaker 4: of your control? Because for anyone playing along at home,
Speaker 4: Rue is white presenting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah she is. She's very fair, blue eyes, I say,
Speaker 1: blonde hair, but her hair's brown.
Speaker 2: I think it's like a golden in between custle.
Speaker 1: What whites. People call melsy blonde.
Speaker 2: Or light brown, light brown, like brown massy. It's not mousie.
Speaker 2: It's very rich looking.
Speaker 1: Oh thank you. I don't know why I feel like
Speaker 1: I grew up myself. I well, I think that the
Speaker 1: first hurdle that I'm going to face in raising her
Speaker 1: is like her exposure in community and like what she's
Speaker 1: going to see on a day to day basis. We've
Speaker 1: already spoken you and I at length about how jealous
Speaker 1: I am of Lenny and the fact that his daycare
Speaker 1: is so diverse and he's like one of the only
Speaker 1: white people. So I feel like, for me, that's kind
Speaker 1: of top of my list. So when we were trying
Speaker 1: to buy in the next twelve to twenty four months,
Speaker 1: so a lot of consideration and where we're going to
Speaker 1: buy is being put into where can we go? That's
Speaker 1: a little bit more diverse as.
Speaker 4: Well, though, because in Sydney, I think Melbourne's a little
Speaker 4: bit better. But in Sydney there's lots of pockets, Yeah,
Speaker 4: and people sort of like stick to their culture.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's still really siloed.
Speaker 2: It's very siloed.
Speaker 4: Whereas there are some areas like where I live, where
Speaker 4: it's just like a big pot, a big stew of
Speaker 4: all different types of melting pot, all different types of people.
Speaker 4: And I also though understand the one hand, you don't
Speaker 4: want things too siloed, but on the other hand, you
Speaker 4: don't ever want to be the only one or because
Speaker 4: then you grow up as Key did. And I don't
Speaker 4: know if this is relevant because it's not race. But
Speaker 4: in the book that I was talking about last week
Speaker 4: that changed my life, The Nightingale, skip ahead thirty seconds
Speaker 4: if you haven't read it yet and you're keen, there's
Speaker 4: a little boy Ari, who one of the protagonists actually
Speaker 4: saved him and pretended it was her son because his mother.
Speaker 2: Was killed because she was Jewish.
Speaker 4: And then bah bah and towards the end of the book, Ari,
Speaker 4: even though he's been raised now as her son, he
Speaker 4: can't even remember that he wasn't he gets taken off
Speaker 4: her by the Jewish community.
Speaker 2: But the way that the Rabbi worded.
Speaker 4: It to her was, there's not many of us left,
Speaker 4: and I want Ari to be brought up in a
Speaker 4: Jewish community around by the Jewish people. And that actually
Speaker 4: I've never thought about it from that perspective before.
Speaker 2: Because you lose culture, and that's the thing.
Speaker 4: And I guess that's how why you want to surround
Speaker 4: ru with more people apart from yourself, yeah, that are
Speaker 4: black or from different cultures, because you don't want her
Speaker 4: to just be around.
Speaker 2: White culture and I don't as white culture.
Speaker 1: There is much, and I don't want her.
Speaker 2: I sure can't dance.
Speaker 1: That's well. My fear is that someone's going to one
Speaker 1: day be like, why is your mum black? You know?
Speaker 1: But I feel like that will be less of a question,
Speaker 1: or perhaps that question may be delayed a little bit
Speaker 1: more if she is in a more diverse area where
Speaker 1: lots of people's parents are different, different, there's mixed races,
Speaker 1: multi races, like maybe I can delay that a little bit.
Speaker 1: So it's not so.
Speaker 4: I do think that if you were in a different
Speaker 4: sort of area, it wouldn't be a question.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, because.
Speaker 4: No one cares, or no one would look at anyone's
Speaker 4: parent and be like, oh yeah, but it's hard because
Speaker 4: you're also that's where your life is at the moment.
Speaker 1: And where all of our friends are. But the other
Speaker 1: thing I'm also kind of coming up against is that
Speaker 1: her experience will be different to mine, and that she
Speaker 1: is kind of white presenting.
Speaker 2: As you've said before, you do want to raise her
Speaker 2: as a black girl.
Speaker 1: I do because that is part of her heritage, and
Speaker 1: I know that by looking at her, the assumption will
Speaker 1: be that she is only of one ethnicity. So I
Speaker 1: need to really teach her that she is black and
Speaker 1: she is white. But society will view you as white,
Speaker 1: and people will say things around you because they don't
Speaker 1: realize and it's going to be a burden that you're
Speaker 1: not a burden, but it's going to be that extra
Speaker 1: emotional labor that you are going to have to endure
Speaker 1: as the daughter of a woman of color. Like that's
Speaker 1: just kind of how it is.
Speaker 4: For anyone who doesn't understand what key means. I'll liken
Speaker 4: it to if you have a fairly old school parent
Speaker 4: or grandparent in your life who makes comments all the
Speaker 4: time and you just sit there thinking, do I take
Speaker 4: on the mental load of educating them and explaining to
Speaker 4: them why what they just said is completely offensive? Or
Speaker 4: do I just let it slide because I can't be
Speaker 4: fucked having that conversation right now exactly that constantly.
Speaker 1: Constantly, and some days you some days you can just
Speaker 1: let it go because you're like.
Speaker 4: I can't be bothered, would say, that's not the hill
Speaker 4: I want to die today, just in terms of I
Speaker 4: can't be bothered.
Speaker 1: But some days you're like fuck in which someone says
Speaker 1: something the undertone of it, You're just like, that is
Speaker 1: not okay. And it still happens today, and it happens
Speaker 1: all the time with Rue and situations.
Speaker 4: Could you give some examples, because as a very ignorant person,
Speaker 4: it shocks me when you tell me things like this.
Speaker 4: And the only time I've ever witnessed it is that
Speaker 4: time that we went to service New South Wales.
Speaker 2: Oh, I know, and I'm still not one hundred.
Speaker 4: Percent sure if that was racial motivated, but it felt
Speaker 4: like it. It felt like it, yes, And it was
Speaker 4: the first time that I've ever witnessed someone be awful
Speaker 4: yeah to another person for no apparent reason.
Speaker 1: Well, with Rue specifically, I mean, people have said to
Speaker 1: me like, oh, aren't you glad she got beautiful blue eyes?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, there's a bit of an undertone with that, right,
Speaker 1: because there's like you're saying that.
Speaker 4: There's more value in a blue and blue brown eyedea exactly.
Speaker 1: But then also like I was at an event the
Speaker 1: other day and a friend of mine mother in law,
Speaker 1: was there, and it's just a certain way people from
Speaker 1: that generation ask you or call out something. She really
Speaker 1: is fair, isn't she? She just yes, whoa she is
Speaker 1: so so so fair, so fair, and.
Speaker 4: I want to do put her out in the sun
Speaker 4: without soundscreen, see what happens.
Speaker 1: And I just it's like you're lingering on this one
Speaker 1: person about like, I get it, she's fair, but it's almost.
Speaker 2: Felt like she needs to see the puff. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: But it felt like she was saying like, oh wow,
Speaker 1: like I didn't think someone as dark as you could
Speaker 1: make someone as fair as that. That's the implication of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like she's implying that without saying it. And know some
Speaker 1: people will be listening to this being like, oh, she
Speaker 1: wouldn't have. But like I can tell, like I've experienced
Speaker 1: this my whole life.
Speaker 4: I can tell key or another person of color how
Speaker 4: they should be perceiving things or how they should feel
Speaker 4: about something, if that's how they are telling you that
Speaker 4: they feel. Yeah, And I always think about that quote.
Speaker 4: That's like her intent might not have been malicious at all.
Speaker 4: In fact, I'm sure it wasn't one hundred percent sure
Speaker 4: it wasn't malicious, yeah, but her impact still made you
Speaker 4: feel like shit, Yeah, And there's different so.
Speaker 1: That a play here as well. Like I just think
Speaker 1: it's really hard to have to constantly live your life explaining.
Speaker 1: And so when ru was born and I could tell
Speaker 1: that she was, you know, after one year of having
Speaker 1: blue eyes, they were sticking and they were sticking around,
Speaker 1: and the hair was very straight, very straight, I just thought, oh,
Speaker 1: this adds another layer of difficulty here in that she's now.
Speaker 1: I mean, either way, had she been more like me,
Speaker 1: both ways, she's going to get questions. It's just like
Speaker 1: I spend the majority of the time with her in public.
Speaker 2: And dads never get the same sort of questions.
Speaker 1: Dads won't out the question that's just like, oh, you're
Speaker 1: looking after your kid?
Speaker 2: Who if your baby sitting good on your daddy.
Speaker 1: It feels heavy that she's going to have to go
Speaker 1: through this stuff. And all I want for her is
Speaker 1: to feel like in any situation she's in that she's
Speaker 1: proud yep. Because a lot of people are going to
Speaker 1: make you feel this big or really small. Sorry, I
Speaker 1: forget that we're doing in the audio medium about things
Speaker 1: that you can't change, and I never want her to
Speaker 1: be for one minute in a situation where she's like
Speaker 1: feeling like she's not good enough or that she's different.
Speaker 1: You know, like it's a difficult one. It is really hard,
Speaker 1: and that's why I really am trying to be super
Speaker 1: conscious of it in raising her from a young age.
Speaker 1: There is a really positive thing of this though, which
Speaker 1: came to me when I was putting this together, is that,
Speaker 1: like knowing that she is multi racial growing up, she's
Speaker 1: going to have an incredible level of empathy towards anyone
Speaker 1: she meets. Just because you look different, You're not different
Speaker 1: like I look different to her and her mom.
Speaker 2: She's just I looking her. Everyone's different, Like.
Speaker 1: I think she's just going to automatically have that because
Speaker 1: she's being raised in that way, and just sit an
Speaker 1: openness to other cultures that she's going to want to
Speaker 1: explore because my makeup and the things that I've said, it's.
Speaker 4: A beautiful gift that you're giving her. Yeah, have you
Speaker 4: thought about what you're going to do?
Speaker 2: Will you?
Speaker 4: And Charlie, because it's also on him. He married you
Speaker 4: to teach ru to be proud of her heritage.
Speaker 1: I think that I just really want to always talk
Speaker 1: about race from a young age, for it never to
Speaker 1: be a thing that's not spoken about, because it wasn't
Speaker 1: spoken about me growing up, and it took me years
Speaker 1: to really understand, and I was kind of like muddying
Speaker 1: my way through life trying to get perspective on things.
Speaker 1: And I just really want her to know what her
Speaker 1: heritage is. Daddy's x y Z, mum's x y Z,
Speaker 1: which means you're multiracial.
Speaker 2: How cool is that?
Speaker 1: Like these are your things. I want to prepare her
Speaker 1: so that any situation she's in when she's inevitably going
Speaker 1: to be asked questions if someone's seen me, or if
Speaker 1: she stands up and says, oh, I'm multi rap, like
Speaker 1: that she has the knowledge and the understanding of her
Speaker 1: heritage and the different cultures that she's made up of,
Speaker 1: so that she can speak confidently in a situation and
Speaker 1: not be like, oh, I don't know really what to say,
Speaker 1: like that kind of racial imposter syndrome that I mentioned
Speaker 1: at the top of the episode, Like I don't want
Speaker 1: her to feel that way. I want to feel like
Speaker 1: she has a right to be proud about where she
Speaker 1: comes from.
Speaker 4: Is there much black culture in Sydney things that you
Speaker 4: can do.
Speaker 1: I don't think so, Like, I don't think so. But
Speaker 1: it's like the next one I had was that reading
Speaker 1: books and watching films about mixed race characters and also culture.
Speaker 2: Is there much there is?
Speaker 1: I mean thanks to streamers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're watching thanks to Australian TV.
Speaker 1: No, we're watching an amazing show. This is actually my
Speaker 1: recommendation for later called Supercell on Netflix, which has just
Speaker 1: been like me, draw on the floor, just like it's
Speaker 1: my two favorite things, sci fi and black culture in
Speaker 1: a frickin' TV series, And I'm just like, oh my god, is.
Speaker 2: This one that you were like, I can't tell you
Speaker 2: about it yet.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna wait to so I won't go touto. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna wait for the end of the episode. But up
Speaker 1: until a couple of years ago, I had never read
Speaker 1: a book that had a black protagonist in it. And
Speaker 1: I can't even tell you kind of how much I
Speaker 1: questioned everything. When I realized that, I was like, why
Speaker 1: have I never realized that? Like, why have I never
Speaker 1: sought books that have black leads? I think I just
Speaker 1: read what everyone else around me liked. But then I
Speaker 1: realized the stuff that everyone else is reading. I actually
Speaker 1: find really boring because I can't relate. Like this book
Speaker 1: was talking about hair textures, it was using slang, it
Speaker 1: was talking about historical things that are really important, like
Speaker 1: all of the things that I'm interested in that perhaps
Speaker 1: someone else might not be interested in, Like and I
Speaker 1: actually reached out to that author and said that to her,
Speaker 1: and she said, same time I became a writer, gave
Speaker 1: me this list of books to read. She's like, you
Speaker 1: need to read all these books. Basically she was so lovely,
Speaker 1: so lovely, and yeah, I think that has stuck with.
Speaker 4: Me, Like, whereas and tell me if this is just
Speaker 4: me being I don't know if the word is ignorant,
Speaker 4: but when you tell me that, I'm like, why are
Speaker 4: we even putting that in books? Like who cares? Why
Speaker 4: would we know what the protagonist looks? Like That's what
Speaker 4: I'm just thinking of, Like why would I even know
Speaker 4: what the color of someone's skin is when I'm reading
Speaker 4: a book.
Speaker 1: Because we're talking about lived experience, right, So if one
Speaker 1: lead character walks out the front door and the story
Speaker 1: and she's white, and another lee character walks out the
Speaker 1: front and she's black, they've got completely different experiences, and
Speaker 1: when I navigate life each day, it's very different, very
Speaker 1: different from what you do.
Speaker 4: Like there are things well going to try to get
Speaker 4: a person to sign something.
Speaker 2: Exactly, And I think that in an ideal.
Speaker 4: World, I don't want there to ever be a different
Speaker 4: lived experience between a black person and a white person. Yeah,
Speaker 4: And I know that that's simplistic and a ridiculous thing
Speaker 4: to say, because for at least our lifetime it will be. Yeah,
Speaker 4: but it would be nice if we all collectively got
Speaker 4: together and we're just like, let's teach our kids vastly
Speaker 4: different experiences so that there is no difference between a man, woman, gender, race, anything,
Speaker 4: totally leaving the house.
Speaker 1: No, I get what you mean, right, And that's ideally
Speaker 1: what we would like. But I think also by doing
Speaker 1: that we raise a lot of stuff that's happened historically.
Speaker 1: It is such a good impacts you generationally, like the
Speaker 1: generational trauma, such a good point that minorities have and
Speaker 1: they pass on through generation generation. It's something that subconsciously
Speaker 1: affects you every day as well. So I think that
Speaker 1: we can creating a generation of acceptance. The last one
Speaker 1: I had is exposing rue to the culture so like
Speaker 1: black stuff like this at daycare well hopefully, but like
Speaker 1: this is where I after living in New York because
Speaker 1: obviously the stuff's like on Google calendars and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: what's this And I'm like, oh, so like Black History Month,
Speaker 1: June teenth, Black historical icons Kwansa. I want to finish on.
Speaker 1: This is like about not using fractions when explaining heritage,
Speaker 1: so that point I'm half black, I'm half white, just
Speaker 1: saying I'm black and white. And so for Rue, instead
Speaker 1: of her saying, oh, I'm a quarter black and three
Speaker 1: quarters white, her just saying I'm black and white. Because
Speaker 1: then you're always presenting it as equal. You're never giving
Speaker 1: it like this little bit and the rest is that
Speaker 1: it means you're just presenting it equally, proudly, on the
Speaker 1: same level, like one is not more than the other.
Speaker 1: So I think that's something I'm really gonna do when
Speaker 1: we start to talk about this, as you say, my
Speaker 1: heritage is black and white, and that's it. That's your answer. Well,
Speaker 1: next up we are talking to our lovely shit of Juliet.
Speaker 1: So she and our partner are actually from the UK
Speaker 1: and raising their two daughters in Melbourne. Juliet is a
Speaker 1: black woman and her partner is white. We met in
Speaker 1: our DMS after Juliet listened to our Q and A.
Speaker 4: That was an episode at the start of the year.
Speaker 4: We can link it in the show notes if you're
Speaker 4: anyone's listening or are you talking about.
Speaker 1: Yes, we will link it. We happen to be planning
Speaker 1: this episode when she reached out, so we figured we
Speaker 1: may as well invite her on for a chat about
Speaker 1: her experience, just to.
Speaker 4: Have another person of color give their lived experience rather
Speaker 4: than me have a couple of just going yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: We loved the chat and we hope that you do too.
Speaker 1: Welcome Juliet. Can you start by telling us a little
Speaker 1: bit about your family?
Speaker 3: Afore me and my partner Andy met here. We're both
Speaker 3: Richie from the UK and we have two beautiful daughters,
Speaker 3: Lila and Aria. Lyla is three and Aria is six months,
Speaker 3: so she's quite new. Yeah. We're living in Melbourne, down
Speaker 3: towards the Modernton Peninsula, so it's not the most diverse area,
Speaker 3: I would say, And in terms of race, I am
Speaker 3: a black woman and my partner is white and quite fair,
Speaker 3: quite fair.
Speaker 4: So pre babies, did you and your partner chat about
Speaker 4: the realities of raising biracial kids.
Speaker 2: Did you have any plans?
Speaker 4: Did you always know that you would live somewhere where
Speaker 4: it was quite white?
Speaker 3: In all? Honestly, like, we didn't really plan. We didn't
Speaker 3: really think about having children because actually, Lylah, my first
Speaker 3: was quite a surprise, so we didn't really think about
Speaker 3: it until I was pregnant and then I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: the only thing we really speculated about is what are
Speaker 3: they going to look like? You know, because we both
Speaker 3: look so different, So that's the same thing we really
Speaker 3: thought about. We knew they were going to be obviously biracial,
Speaker 3: but both from the UK, It's not really something we
Speaker 3: really think about because it's quite common in the UK
Speaker 3: for people to be biracial, but then obviously here you
Speaker 3: just don't see it that often. So where we moved
Speaker 3: to we didn't really think about it. We just moved
Speaker 3: to the area that we liked. It happens to be
Speaker 3: a very white area.
Speaker 1: I wanted to kind of get into, I guess the
Speaker 1: laundry list I'm imagining just speaking from my experience of microaggressions,
Speaker 1: because I'm going to assume that you have experienced this
Speaker 1: as a black mother of daughters who are fair because
Speaker 1: the same. And I think why I'm so interested in
Speaker 1: talking about this is just for other listeners to have
Speaker 1: the perspective of two women of color talking about their experience,
Speaker 1: just to show how common it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so when you spoke on the podcast, i'd never
Speaker 3: heard anyone talk about it before, and I talk about
Speaker 3: it all the time because prior to having children, I
Speaker 3: don't really noticed me being because I grew up in
Speaker 3: a quite a white area and my family is really multicultural,
Speaker 3: so my mom's black, she's half Caribbean, I'm a quarter Caribbean.
Speaker 3: I have like black cousins and white sisters because we
Speaker 3: have half sisters, so we're all over the shop. But
Speaker 3: I never really thought about my race that much because
Speaker 3: it's just not an issue for me until I had children.
Speaker 3: And when I say it's brought up on a daily basis,
Speaker 3: the comments that I get is daily, So obviously they
Speaker 3: do it look a lot like me. They're blue eyes,
Speaker 3: blonde hair, both of them, and really really fair skin.
Speaker 3: And I don't mind people saying to me, Wow, they
Speaker 3: don't look much like you, because they obviously don't. But
Speaker 3: it's when I'm questioned whether I'm actually their mother. It's
Speaker 3: quite jarring. So like two times I can think of
Speaker 3: that really took me backwards. When I was six weeks old,
Speaker 3: I took her to a lactation because often because my
Speaker 3: breastfeeding has gone to shit, and the woman said, this
Speaker 3: is not your baby. I said, well, why would I
Speaker 3: bring somebody else's baby to a lactation? Learned how to
Speaker 3: feed her?
Speaker 2: You're like, I didn't steal her off the street.
Speaker 1: This is my human.
Speaker 3: I made her.
Speaker 2: I saw her exit my body exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I've had that quite a lot, whether like
Speaker 3: is she even yours? Like someone said to me the libra,
Speaker 3: dat is she in yours? And I'm like, well, got
Speaker 3: the scars to prove it.
Speaker 4: Love.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Another time was that her daycare. One of the
Speaker 3: daycare workers she said to me, we always joke that,
Speaker 3: surely you're not the mother. And it was the fact
Speaker 3: that she said we always joke, so like I know
Speaker 3: that they're talking about it behind my back, like the
Speaker 3: workers there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, even if she.
Speaker 3: Wasn't my biological child, which she is, to say you're
Speaker 3: not the mother, it's like, but I am her mother.
Speaker 2: I just don't understand why anyone would ever say that.
Speaker 3: I think it even more offensive if I was her back,
Speaker 3: like adopted mother. I think that's even more offensive because
Speaker 3: you're like, well, I'm her mother. But I get it
Speaker 3: all the time. It's really many from older women. Yes,
Speaker 3: I never get it from men's older women and they
Speaker 3: come up and they go, are you the mother? And
Speaker 3: I say yes, and I'm like, because you look like
Speaker 3: the nanny or you look like the help.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny because I'm like, if I was a nanny,
Speaker 3: my gosh, you'd want to pay me a lot. Like
Speaker 3: I'm breastfeeding the child. Yeah, like I'm all in one,
Speaker 3: like I'm kissing the kids and I'm giving them cuddles
Speaker 3: and I'm breastfeeding them. But yeah, a lot of times
Speaker 3: people would say to me when I was pregnant with Aria,
Speaker 3: was I hope this one looks more like you. But
Speaker 3: they say in front of Lilah, or hopefully this one
Speaker 3: has your skin color. And I think people don't think
Speaker 3: they're being racist. They actually think they're being complimentary with
Speaker 3: me because they're saying, I hope that she has your
Speaker 3: skin color, because they're saying that we like your skin color.
Speaker 3: But that's implying that there's something wrong with my daughter's
Speaker 3: skin color because she's so white. And if it was
Speaker 3: either way around and someone was saying to a white
Speaker 3: woman with a black child, hopefully they happy this one
Speaker 3: has your skin color, it would be so racist.
Speaker 1: It is reverse racism. It's almost trying to like I
Speaker 1: don't know, it almost pacify you in a way, like, oh,
Speaker 1: don't worry, you know there's still a chance for you.
Speaker 1: And I always get the oh, you'd think the darker
Speaker 1: genes would be stronger, And I'm like, why why would
Speaker 1: you think that? Because dark means strong, dark means harsh,
Speaker 1: Like where are you coming out from that? Like I
Speaker 1: also have no control over that, Like that's just what's
Speaker 1: come out. And I think that they don't consider how
Speaker 1: confronting it is too. I know for me, not speaking
Speaker 1: for you, but I don't know if you experienced this
Speaker 1: is like I did think RU would look completely different.
Speaker 1: Not that I feel upset about that, but it does
Speaker 1: challenge your identity in a little bit because you think, well,
Speaker 1: they don't really look like me, Like I'm looking for
Speaker 1: mannerisms and things, but I don't see it because I
Speaker 1: don't know what my facial expressions or mannerisms are Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Get that all the time. So a lot of my
Speaker 3: close friends and family, and especially Andy's family, they're like,
Speaker 3: she looks so much like you, And actually, like, I
Speaker 3: have a photo of me as a child and then
Speaker 3: a comparison photo of Lilah, and we look so similar
Speaker 3: as kids. It's just that one has curly hair and
Speaker 3: one has straight white hair. Yeah, but I didn't have
Speaker 3: children to have little versions of I mean, obviously like
Speaker 3: versins of myself, but not like I didn't want to
Speaker 3: mini me, you know. In fact, I'm so happy that
Speaker 3: they look like their dad because he's the person I
Speaker 3: fell in love with. Yeah, so I'm so happy that
Speaker 3: they have the blue eyes because those are the eyes
Speaker 3: that I fell in love with, do you know what
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 1: That's really so.
Speaker 3: I just think it's a miracle that they look the
Speaker 3: way they look. And I just I think in front
Speaker 3: of my daughter, when people keep saying about race, it's
Speaker 3: not something a three year old should really be taking in,
Speaker 3: but it's constantly said in front of her. And that's
Speaker 3: the problem for me, is that she's quite aware of it,
Speaker 3: and she didn't.
Speaker 2: Need to be little kids just shouldn't. It shouldn't even
Speaker 2: be a thing.
Speaker 4: And Key and I have spoken about this before because
Speaker 4: where we live in Sydney. Key lives in a very
Speaker 4: white area of Sydney and I live in a very
Speaker 4: multicultural era of Sydney, so lends one of the only
Speaker 4: white kids in his class. So it won't ever be
Speaker 4: a thing that he will be like wondering about those
Speaker 4: different things. It's just, Oh, they're all just kids. As
Speaker 4: you said, no three year old should be thinking about
Speaker 4: race at daycare.
Speaker 3: And none of the kids ever mentioned it. No kids
Speaker 3: ever said to me, you don't like Lila, it's only
Speaker 3: adults and it's only older women.
Speaker 1: If you go who's that and you go that's her mom,
Speaker 1: they go, oh, they don't need you to sit down
Speaker 1: and give you a whole kind of like you know
Speaker 1: your heritage and you know so then they completely understand,
Speaker 1: very clearly in their mind how that has come to be.
Speaker 1: No kids are just so face value. They're like, oh, yeah, cool,
Speaker 1: that's your mum. Cool she's pretty and nice, and yeah
Speaker 1: she seems fun. Like I think that's what we forget
Speaker 1: as we get older, Like I get the intrigue right
Speaker 1: because whenever I see a biracial woman walking down the street,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, Like I'm just like I
Speaker 1: just want to ask you every question, like what's your
Speaker 1: megs like? Because I feel seen, and then I go
Speaker 1: none of my business.
Speaker 3: I totally get you, key, because I think living in Australia,
Speaker 3: especially in England, No, I don't think there's so many
Speaker 3: Caribbean people in England. Yeah, but here, if I see
Speaker 3: another person that looks like me, I'm like wow, because
Speaker 3: I don't see it that often that I'm like, oh wow,
Speaker 3: it's nice to see another person, you know.
Speaker 1: I think we throw around the fact that Australia is
Speaker 1: so multicultural. I got a very big shock moving from
Speaker 1: New Zealand to Australia as a young girl because I
Speaker 1: would say that New Zealand is far more multicultural, and
Speaker 1: I feel like here everyone's very siloed, so you just
Speaker 1: kind of have pockets of culture but not really crossing over.
Speaker 1: And I know, like in England for instance, that like
Speaker 1: you know, when they were building different neighborhoods, that build
Speaker 1: them side by side, so there is crossover. Because I
Speaker 1: never wanted people to not be able to be central
Speaker 1: and be in the mix whereas I feel like here,
Speaker 1: the further up from the city is where you get
Speaker 1: those pockets because it has been set up in a
Speaker 1: way that everyone is still really segregated, even though that's
Speaker 1: like a big word. But have you noticed the same here?
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I think Australia is still such a new
Speaker 3: country that everyone moved over in different waves. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: and they kind of tend to stick with the people
Speaker 3: that they moved over with. And I think that is
Speaker 3: getting better. And like obviously with social media and stuff,
Speaker 3: everyone's seeing a lot more of different people, so it
Speaker 3: is improving, and it depends where you go. Really. I
Speaker 3: did notice that my cousin came here from England and
Speaker 3: he lives in London, and he came here and was like,
Speaker 3: where are all the black peaples. Yeah, he couldn't get
Speaker 3: his head around it. There's not that many Caribbean people
Speaker 3: here because they moved to England for a reason. Yeah,
Speaker 3: they haven't had a wave of Caribbean people moving here,
Speaker 3: So yeah, I definitely do see it a lot more.
Speaker 3: And my partner works in construction and he has I
Speaker 3: don't think ours are like inherently racist, but he has
Speaker 3: had some racist comments made in front of him because
Speaker 3: he's white, thinking that they're in a safe space, and
Speaker 3: he has to say, look, I don't want to hear that.
Speaker 3: I can't hear. I can't listen to that. You can't
Speaker 3: and not that I mean anyone could say you can't
Speaker 3: say in front of me, but he's like, I take
Speaker 3: personal offense to it because my partner's black and my
Speaker 3: kids are black, So please don't say that in front
Speaker 3: of me. And that's my biggest worry for the girls
Speaker 3: is that because they present so wide that growing up,
Speaker 3: they might be in a situation where people feel that
Speaker 3: they're in a safe space to use the N word
Speaker 3: or something they would never say to your face. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and I just really worry that they're going to have
Speaker 3: to speak up each time. It means up to them
Speaker 3: how they want to react to it. But I hope
Speaker 3: that they have the strength of character to say, actually,
Speaker 3: I have Caribbean heritage and I really take offense to that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. It's just also the additional labor that they're
Speaker 1: going to have to have, And that's just what's disheartening
Speaker 1: for me, is like you can never just show up
Speaker 1: because you are who you are. It's always got to be,
Speaker 1: you have to be defined by something in order to
Speaker 1: be placed or put somewhere. So that's why I really
Speaker 1: want to have this conversation with another person, just because
Speaker 1: I feel like I have this conversation to Kelly all
Speaker 1: the time and she's like, well, that's fucked, and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: the conversation is over. So I feel like it's really
Speaker 1: lovely to have your perspective and lived experience just to
Speaker 1: even be able to have a conversation to go back
Speaker 1: and forth.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think, like I said, I think it's
Speaker 3: getting better. Like there are a lot of toys and
Speaker 3: books and stuff out there that have different races in
Speaker 3: them now, Like growing up, I never had a black barbie.
Speaker 3: I don't think it was all white barbies and maybe
Speaker 3: just my mum was buying them for me. But now
Speaker 3: I like really really take notice of like all the
Speaker 3: you know, the black barbies and the black toys and stuff.
Speaker 3: Just so Lilah has in her head that you know,
Speaker 3: there's different races out there, and her kinder they do
Speaker 3: a really good thing where they put like different countries
Speaker 3: on the wall and they have little photos of them,
Speaker 3: of the kids, and they stick the photos on the
Speaker 3: based on the parents' heritage. So like on her wall,
Speaker 3: she's got like a little photo on the England and
Speaker 3: a little photo on the Caribbean, and it's just really
Speaker 3: cute because that kind of opens up the conversation at
Speaker 3: such an early age.
Speaker 4: And they do their little I'm sure they do it
Speaker 4: at your daycare as well. At mine, they do every
Speaker 4: single week or maybe every couple of weeks. They'll do
Speaker 4: like a different this is India and they'll do the
Speaker 4: whole week, like all of the activities and everything is
Speaker 4: like dedicated to India, and they'll do a lot of
Speaker 4: different Indian cuisines for the lunch, and they'll do like
Speaker 4: discussions and read books and then they've got little areas
Speaker 4: and listen. Sometimes I'm like, I don't know how appropriate
Speaker 4: it is that all of these two year olds are
Speaker 4: wearing saris.
Speaker 2: But you know what, if they're learning, then that's great.
Speaker 1: That's what it is. Exposure at a young age. That's
Speaker 1: the thing that's going to help I think how siloed
Speaker 1: some of our kids are growing up, is that the kindergartens,
Speaker 1: the preschools, the schools that make an effort to really
Speaker 1: explore different cultures it's just embedding that like level of
Speaker 1: empathy and understanding and seeing of other people if you can't,
Speaker 1: you know, live alongside different people.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So yeah, where we live it's quite a white area.
Speaker 3: I've enrolled her in a ballet school, which is a
Speaker 3: really multicultural area, and I love the older little girls
Speaker 3: in their little two two's. They're probably like two or
Speaker 3: three other like white presenting kids. And I would say
Speaker 3: white presenting because like she does look white. If you
Speaker 3: looks at her, you think she was a white kid,
Speaker 3: but she's not, So I say white presenting. But yeah,
Speaker 3: there's probably two or three. All the others are all
Speaker 3: from all different races, and I love that. Yeah, in
Speaker 3: her kinder there's only one black kid and the rest
Speaker 3: of them are all white. I think. So it's tricky,
Speaker 3: but if you can try and integrate them into different
Speaker 3: extracurricular activities that go to different areas, you know, then
Speaker 3: I guess you can kind of expose them in that
Speaker 3: way as well.
Speaker 4: So what would your tip be to firstly parents who
Speaker 4: are raising bi racial kids and secondly people who feel
Speaker 4: the need to ask unwanted questions.
Speaker 3: I don't think I handle it that well, Like I
Speaker 3: wish I was more. I'm such a people pleaser that
Speaker 3: I just sort of laugh about it when people say stuff,
Speaker 3: and then later on I kind of go home and
Speaker 3: say to Andy, like, oh my god, this woman at
Speaker 3: the library said issue in yours. I think as time
Speaker 3: goes on, I will probably speak up a bit more.
Speaker 3: But I think you're going to get comments, especially if
Speaker 3: you're a black woman with where presenting children, you are
Speaker 3: going to get the comments. So it's just up to
Speaker 3: you to see how you react to it. I think
Speaker 3: if you get angry every single time, you're just going
Speaker 3: to live in a world full of anger. So I
Speaker 3: could sort of just like try to get on the
Speaker 3: front foot and joke about it before they do, so
Speaker 3: I say, I know, I know that it looks like me,
Speaker 3: but you know, ha ha ha. And then also, like
Speaker 3: I just said, like if you really want to integate
Speaker 3: them into their race or different races, and you live
Speaker 3: in a white area, like try and book a daycade
Speaker 3: group or something that's not in your area, or like
Speaker 3: a ballet class or I don't know, like karate. It's
Speaker 3: in a more diverse area, so they get exposure to
Speaker 3: other races in that way. And then in terms of
Speaker 3: people saying stuff like I think it's fine for people
Speaker 3: to comment on the fact that they do it look
Speaker 3: like me, but to question whether you're the mother and
Speaker 3: don't mention race. I just don't think it's okay to
Speaker 3: mention race. Yeah, Like, don't say, oh, they're white, but
Speaker 3: they're white. It doesn't make any sense for a child
Speaker 3: to hear that. They're going to hear it the whole life,
Speaker 3: and they're going to probably be aware of it at
Speaker 3: some point, but it's not okay for a child to
Speaker 3: be aware of it.
Speaker 1: And there are so many other things that you can
Speaker 1: comment on, or she's got beautiful blue eyes? Are those
Speaker 1: from her dad? Or oh wow, her hair is really straight, like,
Speaker 1: there are so many other things that you could even
Speaker 1: focus on.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And I think, like you said, I think
Speaker 3: a compliment around it. It's nice, Like I don't mind
Speaker 3: if someone's being complimentary, but when they're just shocked at
Speaker 3: it and out and out saying it, it's jarring.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Or when someone's like, oh, isn't she lucky she
Speaker 1: got blue eyes and I'm like, well, what's wrong with
Speaker 1: brown eyes? Brown eyes?
Speaker 3: Pretty? Like?
Speaker 1: I think it's just in the way that you say
Speaker 1: things like I think it's thinking before you speak right,
Speaker 1: Like you might not mean it in that way, but
Speaker 1: delivery is everything. Tone is everything. We're not commenting on
Speaker 1: women's appearances anymore. We certainly don't need to be commenting
Speaker 1: on kids appearances either.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much for coming on. Honestly, it
Speaker 1: was such a lovely conversation. I feel really seen and
Speaker 1: heard just having that convo with you. So thank you
Speaker 1: so much for reaching out to us, and for the
Speaker 1: lovely feedback on that episode too well.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. Yeah, and like I said, it
Speaker 3: was so nice to hear somebody else talk about it
Speaker 3: in your Q and A episode. I just felt seen.
Speaker 3: I felt like, oh my god, somebody else skeetsful.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I get it.
Speaker 2: That was such a good chat.
Speaker 4: I learned so much, and I think Shit is at
Speaker 4: home will really enjoy listening to you to talk. I
Speaker 4: really hope everyone listens to it and loves it as
Speaker 4: much as we've loved having the conversation. Yes, but tell
Speaker 4: me more about your recommendations. Ties in so nicely for
Speaker 4: Shock Shaded.
Speaker 1: So it's called Supercell. It is a new series out
Speaker 1: on Netflix. It came out a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: a week ago. It's very new in the.
Speaker 4: Future question a dream.
Speaker 3: I can't heard that.
Speaker 1: As people as well of superpolpers find them to league.
Speaker 1: It is written and created by a gentleman called rap Man.
Speaker 2: So he is his name on his birthday, Hitch.
Speaker 1: I don't think so. So he is a UK rapper
Speaker 1: that was signed to Rockefeller, which is jay Z's record label,
Speaker 1: and basically he is known for telling these amazing stories
Speaker 1: through rap. And when jay Z signed him, he got
Speaker 1: a movie deal for him and he made this kind
Speaker 1: of like short film and basically as a result of that,
Speaker 1: he ended up getting this Netflix deal for this TV show.
Speaker 1: And when I tell you, it is just my favorite
Speaker 1: thing to watch because it's sci fi. So basically it's
Speaker 1: set around these five strangers having superpowers and them all
Speaker 1: needing to kind of link up to save I don't
Speaker 1: even know what yet because I'm only halfway through the season,
Speaker 1: but it's all about that black culture in London. It's
Speaker 1: just so clear everything. It's like there's one scene where
Speaker 1: one of the lead guys and his girlfriend's on the
Speaker 1: couch and they're watching like something that's a little bit
Speaker 1: like love Island and it's the last person and it's
Speaker 1: like a black bachelor, a black bachelorette, and a white bachelorette,
Speaker 1: and he chooses a white girl and she's like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: Like they need to stop putting black women on these
Speaker 1: TV shows, Like it's just really mean. And I'm just like,
Speaker 1: this is what I always talk about, Like they always
Speaker 1: put black women on these shows, but they never cast
Speaker 1: men who are attracted to them. There's like little things
Speaker 1: like that. There's scenes where two sisters are braiding their hair,
Speaker 1: the language they use, just seeing different textures of hair
Speaker 1: on screen. It's just so cool to have that type
Speaker 1: of show because I've never seen that, Like, yeah, I've
Speaker 1: never seen a show that's about black people.
Speaker 2: Who were on this part than the sci fi part,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be but.
Speaker 1: I love sci fi, but it's typically a really white genre.
Speaker 1: They might have one like storm An X Men or
Speaker 1: something like that, right, but this is just like most
Speaker 1: black stories center around stereotypical tropes, right, whereas this show
Speaker 1: is purely about superpower exactly. There's a lot of different things.
Speaker 1: So I just it's exciting because it's not centered around
Speaker 1: like one thing.
Speaker 2: It's centered around this like really cool supernatural thing.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I love it. It's fun I think you should
Speaker 1: watch it. And it's just like amazing that this ratman.
Speaker 4: Guy his that's a cool story, his imagination stories behind things, because.
Speaker 1: I honestly think that, like whenever I don't watch something,
Speaker 1: I'm interested to know like how it came to be,
Speaker 1: because I just think sometimes, right thirty of you, well,
Speaker 1: it's just amazing, like how did this come to be?
Speaker 4: It's funny that you're not a puzzler because you like
Speaker 4: putting things together.
Speaker 1: No, I just love reading stories about people. I think, Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know anyway, supercil Netflix really good.
Speaker 4: Well, thank you Keith, thank you Juliet, and thank you
Speaker 4: to our shitters for listening to this episode.
Speaker 2: Please share the pod.
Speaker 4: On your socials, get more of your friends to be shitters,
Speaker 4: and let us know what you think. You can rate
Speaker 4: and review us or dm us.
Speaker 1: Yes, and the Facebook has been hopping off. Oh we
Speaker 1: love all of the QUI questions in there.
Speaker 2: It's honestly actually just such a helpful to use.
Speaker 1: I know, Helly threw our little thing in the other
Speaker 1: day when lend was a bit sick, and the number
Speaker 1: of shitters who wrote back with them, which is.
Speaker 4: So helpful, and it just like I was just feeling
Speaker 4: so defeated and just have so many good moms.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's nice, So come and join. Everyone's welcome.
Speaker 2: Don't have to be a mum as well.
Speaker 4: Just come in there to have a bit of a
Speaker 4: giggle about some of the problems that we face.
Speaker 1: Yes, we actually have some cool problems. We need some
Speaker 1: fashion choose for pregnant l which we sorted out.
Speaker 2: Post sex episode in season one.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love her. I love her. She's pregnant.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Are we like to say that?
Speaker 1: Well, she said it on the thing.
Speaker 4: Congratulations, congratulations Chelsea.
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by us Kiri Searles and Kelly McCarran,
Speaker 1: with audio production by the wonderful Madeline Joanna, see you
Speaker 1: next week. She is bye.