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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother Me podcast, Muma Me, your

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Speaker 1: acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters. This

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Speaker 1: podcast is recorded on in sickness and in health. Their

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Speaker 1: words usually reserved for traditional wedding vows. Not the beginning

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Speaker 1: of a relationship in your early twenties, But for Lucian Lars,

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Speaker 1: that was exactly how their story began.

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Speaker 2: So he would often come home from work and say

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Speaker 2: that I can't work I'm too sick. I was thinking, oh,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, this is not looking good, and then

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Speaker 2: he started saying, yeah, I just feel really I'm feeling

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Speaker 2: quite nauseous a lot.

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Speaker 1: The thing about sickness in your twenties is that you

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Speaker 1: carry an unshakable belief that you'll bounce back. You're young,

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Speaker 1: after all. But what happens when sickness lingers an unsolved

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Speaker 1: mystery that slowly takes over your life, your love and

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Speaker 1: the person you once work.

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Speaker 2: You're caring for this adult you know twenty four to seven,

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Speaker 2: you're you're in a care role. It's not partnership. You

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Speaker 2: can't go out together. You can't walk down the street together,

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Speaker 2: you can't go for a meal together. You can't go

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Speaker 2: see a film together. You can't do anything together. You're

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Speaker 2: missing out big time.

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Speaker 1: I'm Georgia Love and this is everyone has an eggs.

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Speaker 1: Come with me as we dive into a collection of

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Speaker 1: unconventional stories about relationships passed through the eyes and the

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Speaker 1: hearts of the very people who lived them. Are the

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Speaker 1: nineties a time of suburban freedom, the dawn of the

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Speaker 1: digital age, and truly iconic pop culdjure. But amid all

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Speaker 1: that goodness, it was also the moment Lucy found herself

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Speaker 1: freshly untethered from a less than desirable relationship.

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Speaker 2: I was twenty four. I had a daughter from a

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Speaker 2: previous relationship, she would have been about four, and I

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Speaker 2: left it by myself in a little flatgate hill in Brisbane,

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Speaker 2: one of the inner city suburbs there. And I had

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Speaker 2: just come from a relationship or dating somebody that turned

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Speaker 2: out to be paranoid, schizophrenic, and it became quite a

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Speaker 2: dangerous situation and he continued to stalk me. So I

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Speaker 2: was in quite a nervous state at that time.

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Speaker 1: Thankfully she wasn't alone. A wonderful group of friends rallied

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Speaker 1: around her, lifting her spirits and finding moments of joy

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Speaker 1: along the way.

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Speaker 2: So there was a group of us. We all were

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Speaker 2: a colorful bunch. I guess, a lot of different areas

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Speaker 2: of study going on and different types of work musicians

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Speaker 2: or photographer. Was another friend, a Jewelo, who was my

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Speaker 2: best female friend. I was studying fine art at the time.

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Speaker 2: We all used to go to a club called Babylon

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Speaker 2: and it was kind of under the ground in the

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Speaker 2: Brisbane CBD. And it was a place where lots of

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Speaker 2: alternate sort of groups or people went regularly. And because

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Speaker 2: Brisbane was a small place like that back then, you

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Speaker 2: kind of got to know people over time. But I

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Speaker 2: was at the Babylon one night and I was just

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Speaker 2: with a couple of my friends and I looked across

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Speaker 2: and he must have been sitting under a light, but

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Speaker 2: I noticed this fellow. I don't know what it was.

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Speaker 2: I found his appearance just absolutely striking. He was slightly

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Speaker 2: Viking esquy cord. He had a very strong sort of

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Speaker 2: Norwegian look. But it wasn't necessarily that it was just

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Speaker 2: something about him. It was his behavior, his body language.

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Speaker 2: He appeared to be really jovial when he was having

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Speaker 2: a lot of fun with his friends. And I was

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Speaker 2: just absolutely just so curious about him. I kept going

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Speaker 2: to the same place for a few more months, probably

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Speaker 2: once a fortnight or something, and I kept seeing him there.

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Speaker 2: And then one night I was dancing and he was dancing.

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Speaker 2: He bumped straight into me, and I turned around, thinking,

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Speaker 2: who is that? And you know who just bumped into me?

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Speaker 2: And it was him. And the first thing he said

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Speaker 2: to me was sorry, Bub, are you all right? And

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Speaker 2: I said yeah. I kind of felt a little bit

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Speaker 2: irritated at being called bub. But he was six foot

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Speaker 2: four and just a really large bill, and he had

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Speaker 2: a really kind face and really kind gestures about him,

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Speaker 2: very protective. I felt that immediately. I felt like this

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Speaker 2: person is safe. He felt safe to me, and I

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Speaker 2: think maybe, coming through what I had been through, this

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Speaker 2: seemed like somebody that I could really spend time with.

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Speaker 2: He said, let's not have an accident interfere with a

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Speaker 2: good dance, words to that effect. So we danced and

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Speaker 2: then we sort of left the dance floor.

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Speaker 1: Eventually, his name was Lars and he was a regular

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Speaker 1: Babylon too, So the next time Lucy went back, it

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Speaker 1: was no surprise she'd seen there again, but this time,

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Speaker 1: instead of losing each other in the loud pulsing chaos

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Speaker 1: of the dance floor. They slipped away, sneaking out to

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Speaker 1: somewhere quieter to learn a little more about each other.

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Speaker 2: We went outside and sat on a bench and he

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Speaker 2: was chainsmoking. He'd left school at fourteen, and he spoke

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Speaker 2: in a way that I guess a lot of people

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Speaker 2: would have described as incredibly rough. Definitely, it became clear too,

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Speaker 2: really quickly that he came from a pretty low socioeconomic

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Speaker 2: kind of background, from a family that really had a

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Speaker 2: lot of struggles, but were also really close. And we

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Speaker 2: talked a little bit about music. It was clear we

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Speaker 2: had very similar interests there, and I just felt endeared

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Speaker 2: to him. I thought, well, this is somebody who comes

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Speaker 2: from a background of adversity and struggle. I started asking

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Speaker 2: him about his family and he said, you know, my

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Speaker 2: dad's been in prison since I was two, and I

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Speaker 2: was like, okay, another thing. I'd never really known anybody

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Speaker 2: before who knew anyone who was incarcerated. So I said, oh,

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Speaker 2: what is since you were two is a long time

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Speaker 2: and he said, oh, well, he's been in and out,

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Speaker 2: but you know, the last time he got put away

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Speaker 2: was quite a long sentence. His mother had quite a

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Speaker 2: few abusive partners between his father and the time we

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Speaker 2: were at He also said that he had had trouble

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Speaker 2: with the police. He was nineteen and I was twenty four,

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Speaker 2: so it was quite an age gap. I just presumed

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Speaker 2: he was older than me. I didn't think he was

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Speaker 2: younger than me at all. He had quite a beard,

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Speaker 2: and I guess maybe his height and everything as well.

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Speaker 2: It just didn't occur to me that he was actually

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Speaker 2: younger than me. Anyway, we went back inside the club,

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Speaker 2: and then might have been a couple of weeks after

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Speaker 2: that we met up again and I ended up saying,

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Speaker 2: do you want to have a sleepover at my place?

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Speaker 2: He said, are you sure? And I said yeah, just

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Speaker 2: they had to catch huge taxi rides back out to

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Speaker 2: Sunny Bank where they were living, and I lived in

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Speaker 2: a city, and I said, well, it's close for you.

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Speaker 2: If you want to stay, you'd be very welcome. I

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Speaker 2: did feel really safe.

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Speaker 1: And so the first sleep over Milestone was reached, and

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Speaker 1: for the most part it went off without a hitch.

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Speaker 1: But there was one small thing Lucy couldn't quite ignore,

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Speaker 1: something that felt a little odd.

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Speaker 2: We caught a taxi that night together and in the taxi.

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Speaker 2: On the way, he started doing his shoelaces up really tight.

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Speaker 2: I was sort of watching him, and I was thinking, Oh,

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Speaker 2: that's strange. And then we got out of the taxi

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Speaker 2: got to the place where I lived. It was a

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Speaker 2: very old house divided into small flats. So we walked

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Speaker 2: up the hallway and got to my flat door. He

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Speaker 2: was looking around everywhere in this hallway, and he was

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Speaker 2: looking at the big entry door that we'd just come through,

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Speaker 2: and he was just scoping everything out. He was quite

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Speaker 2: on edge. And we got into the flat and he

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Speaker 2: started looking around and he asked me if there were

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Speaker 2: any other doors to the flat and I said, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's this one here, but it doesn't go to anything.

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Speaker 2: It just has a drop off into a back piece

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Speaker 2: of land there. And he was like, oh yeah, oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: I said, are you okay? You just seem really on edge.

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Speaker 2: He said, oh, we'll see. I kind of thought that

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Speaker 2: for a girl like you to invite me to stay,

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Speaker 2: it could be a trap or a setup. And I

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Speaker 2: was like, oh no, not at all, honestly, and he

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Speaker 2: was like it just seemed too good to be true, really,

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Speaker 2: And I said no, no, it's fine. He said, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: So if I need to get out, I can just

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Speaker 2: go through that door. We came through and I said yes,

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Speaker 2: and you know what, I won't lock it or anything,

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Speaker 2: and he said no, Yeah, that's all right, that's all right.

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Speaker 2: He relaxed after a while and we had a nice night,

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Speaker 2: and then he went home in the morning and asked

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Speaker 2: if he could call me and I said yes. So

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Speaker 2: we exchange phone numbers.

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Speaker 1: And then it happened again the next weekend and the

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Speaker 1: one after that. With each passing visit, Lucy felt safe

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Speaker 1: in Lars's company, and from that sense of ease, something

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Speaker 1: deeper began to grow between them. Things were just easy.

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Speaker 2: We might watch the odd film, but mostly we just

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Speaker 2: laid in bed and talked. He would talk about what

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Speaker 2: he would love to do with life, like he'd love

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Speaker 2: to live in a city somewhere, he would love to travel.

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Speaker 2: He'd like to see what else there was in the world.

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Speaker 2: Traveling is something I'd done a lot of, and I

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Speaker 2: said I'd love to travel with you one day. He

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Speaker 2: said he'd really love to live in a place where

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Speaker 2: you could grow food, which was something I had a

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Speaker 2: big interest in as well. At that stage, it was

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Speaker 2: clear we just grew up on completely different sides of

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Speaker 2: the track, but we were also very similar in our

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Speaker 2: sort of level of compassion for the people and kindness

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Speaker 2: for one another. It just grew, and it grew really

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Speaker 2: really deep as well. It was an understanding that we

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Speaker 2: had between us that we didn't speak a lot of

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Speaker 2: the time, just a connection like I hadn't known possible

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Speaker 2: before when you meet somebody who comes from such different

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Speaker 2: background and circumstances. He worked at a press metal factory,

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Speaker 2: and I went to stay at his place, and his

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Speaker 2: mother was really amazing. She said, since this fellow has

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Speaker 2: been bothering you where you live, would you like to

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Speaker 2: stay with us for a while. That means you're away

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Speaker 2: from the area you were in. He doesn't know where

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Speaker 2: you are, and you can be here for six weeks

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Speaker 2: or something. And then I took them up on the offer,

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Speaker 2: and I lived there for six weeks. When I was

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Speaker 2: out there at his mother's place, I was studying, so

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Speaker 2: you know, we'd get up in the morning. He would

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Speaker 2: often be gone to his work around six in the morning,

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Speaker 2: but I had my daughter there. Sometimes I'd be getting

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Speaker 2: her ready to go to daycare, and I would often

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Speaker 2: have a class to attend later in the day and

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Speaker 2: we'd just meet up back at his place later on

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Speaker 2: if I didn't have a class in town, I didn't.

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Speaker 2: I stayed there and I helped his mother with things.

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Speaker 2: She was setting up a veggy garden and things like that.

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Speaker 2: He said to me when we were out there that

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Speaker 2: he needed a word that he couldn't find, and I said, well,

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Speaker 2: what to describe? And then he said, to describe love

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Speaker 2: that isn't just love, it's more than love. And then

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Speaker 2: he said to me, is it loath? And I said no,

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's loth And he was saying, well,

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Speaker 2: it's like I just need a word to describe love

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Speaker 2: that is something you want for the rest of your life.

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Speaker 2: And I said I'm not really sure. And he said, well, well,

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Speaker 2: if you find the word, that's how I feel about you.

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Speaker 2: And I said I felt the same. I absolutely did.

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Speaker 2: I loved how kind he was. What I noticed when

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Speaker 2: we were out at his mother this house was that

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Speaker 2: he'd go to work sometimes, which sounded really rough, this workplace,

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Speaker 2: and there were often fights there and things. I was

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Speaker 2: starting to see this picture of this person was always

217
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Speaker 2: getting into terrifying situations, and he was his anxiety was growing,

218
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Speaker 2: and I just put it down to these probably frightening experiences.

219
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Speaker 2: So he would often come home from work and say

220
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Speaker 2: that I can't work I'm too sick. And I was thinking, oh,

221
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Speaker 2: this is starting to feel a bit hopeless. As much

222
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Speaker 2: as I loved him, I felt like this is kind

223
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Speaker 2: of seeming hopeless. And I said, well, what sort of

224
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Speaker 2: sick is it? And he said, oh, I just I

225
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Speaker 2: have to keep leaving work to have a cigarette to

226
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Speaker 2: calm down. And I was thinking, oh, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: this is not looking good. And then he started saying, yeah,

228
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Speaker 2: I just feel really I'm feeling quite nauseous a lot.

229
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Speaker 2: And I was saying, oh, that might be because you're

230
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Speaker 2: anxiety highness. Yeah, no, no shit, you know, my anxiety

231
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Speaker 2: is through the roof.

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Speaker 1: So they decided to make a change.

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Speaker 2: We did make the decision just to move into the

234
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Speaker 2: city together and try to start the beginning of what

235
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Speaker 2: that life looked like to us. I would finish my

236
00:13:25,688 --> 00:13:29,768
Speaker 2: finer degree. He quit his job in the press metal

237
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Speaker 2: factory and wanted to get a job in the city somewhere.

238
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Speaker 2: I loved him. I wanted to do anything I could

239
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Speaker 2: to help him. I had a respect for him as well.

240
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Speaker 2: It was somebody who had faced all of these struggles

241
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Speaker 2: and hurdles but had such a desire to make a

242
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Speaker 2: different life to what he'd had. I loved his warmth

243
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Speaker 2: and his compassion and his kindness. He was so kind,

244
00:14:00,728 --> 00:14:04,968
Speaker 2: He was kind to everybody. That speaks a lot to me,

245
00:14:05,808 --> 00:14:08,248
Speaker 2: the level of compassion that he had for his mother

246
00:14:08,328 --> 00:14:13,088
Speaker 2: and understand her situation, the way he was very protective

247
00:14:13,168 --> 00:14:17,728
Speaker 2: of his siblings as well, and just really protective of me.

248
00:14:18,648 --> 00:14:22,808
Speaker 2: He loved my little daughter. I just loved who he was.

249
00:14:23,768 --> 00:14:28,128
Speaker 2: Who he was deep down was just so special. But

250
00:14:28,208 --> 00:14:30,888
Speaker 2: by the time we moved to the city, he was

251
00:14:30,928 --> 00:14:34,608
Speaker 2: finding it very hard to function normally.

252
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Speaker 1: Something felled off, but Lucy couldn't quite put her finger

253
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Speaker 1: on what. And around that same time, the people who

254
00:14:42,648 --> 00:14:45,728
Speaker 1: loved her most had started to quietly and some not

255
00:14:45,848 --> 00:14:50,528
Speaker 1: so quietly, way in on the relationship too.

256
00:14:52,088 --> 00:14:55,008
Speaker 2: My parents did not like the idea of this at all.

257
00:14:56,008 --> 00:14:58,648
Speaker 2: I didn't talk to my family about it. I just

258
00:14:58,728 --> 00:15:01,848
Speaker 2: knew that for who Las was and what his background was,

259
00:15:02,088 --> 00:15:05,688
Speaker 2: it would not be accepted. My friends were split. I

260
00:15:05,728 --> 00:15:09,488
Speaker 2: had some friends who were very cynical about him and

261
00:15:09,768 --> 00:15:13,368
Speaker 2: saying you know, don't you notice that he's unwell quite

262
00:15:13,408 --> 00:15:17,088
Speaker 2: often these days? And I was saying, well, yeah, I

263
00:15:17,128 --> 00:15:19,408
Speaker 2: think it has something to do with anxiety, and they

264
00:15:19,408 --> 00:15:24,528
Speaker 2: were saying, it's clearly he's using substances. He smokes like

265
00:15:24,568 --> 00:15:27,888
Speaker 2: a chimney, you know, no wonder he's unwell. Very judgmental.

266
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Speaker 2: Also in saying to me that they were worried for me,

267
00:15:31,768 --> 00:15:35,368
Speaker 2: is this guy violent? He's a very big fellow. He's

268
00:15:35,408 --> 00:15:38,608
Speaker 2: really rough in the way he speaks. I just couldn't

269
00:15:38,608 --> 00:15:42,368
Speaker 2: be bothered trying to convince those people that he was

270
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Speaker 2: anything than what they wanted to think he was. On

271
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Speaker 2: the other hand, I had some friends who started to

272
00:15:48,768 --> 00:15:52,968
Speaker 2: become friends with him and really respected him. It made

273
00:15:53,048 --> 00:15:56,288
Speaker 2: me sad for him because I thought, if a lot

274
00:15:56,328 --> 00:15:58,808
Speaker 2: of people are judging people this way, how do people

275
00:15:58,888 --> 00:16:02,368
Speaker 2: get out of their situation? Because these people have decided

276
00:16:02,408 --> 00:16:05,048
Speaker 2: this about him. And these people, too, were what you

277
00:16:05,088 --> 00:16:09,048
Speaker 2: would call open minded people, but they had decided that

278
00:16:09,448 --> 00:16:13,248
Speaker 2: by the looks of him, because of his behavior. There's

279
00:16:13,248 --> 00:16:15,728
Speaker 2: obviously stuff going on, the fact that his father was

280
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Speaker 2: in prison. It just made me think, well, how can

281
00:16:18,408 --> 00:16:23,168
Speaker 2: anybody get anywhere when they're being judged like that? So harshly,

282
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Speaker 2: so I cut off from people who were judging him badly.

283
00:16:29,088 --> 00:16:30,768
Speaker 2: I didn't want to hear from them. I didn't want

284
00:16:30,768 --> 00:16:33,768
Speaker 2: anything to do with them. Obviously, my friendships with the

285
00:16:33,768 --> 00:16:38,248
Speaker 2: people who did accept and love Lars became stronger friendships.

286
00:16:38,688 --> 00:16:42,488
Speaker 2: It sort of divided my friendship group. It was us

287
00:16:42,528 --> 00:16:45,488
Speaker 2: and these few people around us that did accept and

288
00:16:45,528 --> 00:16:47,448
Speaker 2: did love him also.

289
00:16:47,808 --> 00:16:50,528
Speaker 1: And then there was also the most unexpected advocate of all,

290
00:16:50,968 --> 00:16:53,608
Speaker 1: Lucy's ex Robert, the father of her daughter.

291
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Speaker 2: Although we had separated, we cared for one another immensely

292
00:16:58,088 --> 00:17:02,128
Speaker 2: and we were friends and just had our daughter's best

293
00:17:02,128 --> 00:17:09,568
Speaker 2: interest at heart. Robert is a mathematical physicist, and he

294
00:17:10,687 --> 00:17:16,447
Speaker 2: had some unusual interests. I guess I really appreciate the

295
00:17:16,488 --> 00:17:22,728
Speaker 2: culture about Robert, but I think he actually found Lars

296
00:17:22,808 --> 00:17:27,888
Speaker 2: just super interesting. And I guess because he is the

297
00:17:27,968 --> 00:17:31,888
Speaker 2: father of my daughter, he had an extra I guess

298
00:17:32,248 --> 00:17:36,447
Speaker 2: level of concern we both did for each other, because

299
00:17:36,488 --> 00:17:40,808
Speaker 2: whoever we partnered with would be exposed to our child.

300
00:17:41,568 --> 00:17:44,408
Speaker 2: In the beginning too, feeling that he didn't have a concern,

301
00:17:44,528 --> 00:17:47,447
Speaker 2: whereas I had these other people saying, oh, you know,

302
00:17:49,128 --> 00:17:51,608
Speaker 2: you don't know where he's come from, and he's this

303
00:17:51,728 --> 00:17:55,088
Speaker 2: and he's that. But immediately I felt like Robert took

304
00:17:55,168 --> 00:17:57,248
Speaker 2: to him and appreciated him.

305
00:17:57,568 --> 00:18:00,288
Speaker 1: Of course, there were tensions within the wider friendship group,

306
00:18:00,528 --> 00:18:03,128
Speaker 1: but Lucy and Lars had their own close circle and

307
00:18:03,168 --> 00:18:06,007
Speaker 1: the promise of new beginnings on the horizon, even if

308
00:18:06,048 --> 00:18:08,288
Speaker 1: those beginnings carried their own set of challenges.

309
00:18:08,808 --> 00:18:13,088
Speaker 2: It must have been a nine months we'd been together,

310
00:18:13,288 --> 00:18:16,408
Speaker 2: and then we got a little house together in West End.

311
00:18:17,248 --> 00:18:20,768
Speaker 2: He was making attempts to find work but finding it

312
00:18:20,848 --> 00:18:24,728
Speaker 2: really difficult. He did get a couple of interviews for

313
00:18:24,848 --> 00:18:28,328
Speaker 2: warehouse jobs, and he tried to go, but started to

314
00:18:28,368 --> 00:18:30,848
Speaker 2: feel really sick when the time came to go, and

315
00:18:30,888 --> 00:18:35,288
Speaker 2: I would say, it's just anxiety. I felt really sorry

316
00:18:35,288 --> 00:18:38,167
Speaker 2: for him, but I did it sometimes start to get impatient.

317
00:18:38,688 --> 00:18:42,088
Speaker 2: It was very hard to get to the bottom of

318
00:18:42,128 --> 00:18:45,368
Speaker 2: this anxiety. It was just this thing. I don't get it.

319
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Speaker 2: He's got everything it takes to be this incredible person,

320
00:18:52,808 --> 00:18:56,768
Speaker 2: but it's not happening. And I couldn't understand what it was.

321
00:18:56,928 --> 00:18:59,048
Speaker 2: And it was hard for me to not listen to

322
00:18:59,088 --> 00:19:02,208
Speaker 2: people who were saying that there might be substances involved.

323
00:19:04,928 --> 00:19:11,368
Speaker 2: He did go from being a really funny fun person

324
00:19:12,248 --> 00:19:15,368
Speaker 2: who would go out of his way to help anybody

325
00:19:16,488 --> 00:19:20,288
Speaker 2: to somebody who just couldn't even help himself. He couldn't

326
00:19:20,328 --> 00:19:24,368
Speaker 2: even leave his bed, couldn't reach the front door without

327
00:19:24,408 --> 00:19:28,408
Speaker 2: a panic attack, couldn't check the ladder box. Even though

328
00:19:28,448 --> 00:19:32,048
Speaker 2: he was super fun and funny, there were these other things,

329
00:19:32,448 --> 00:19:35,408
Speaker 2: quickly checking the room to see where the exits were

330
00:19:35,528 --> 00:19:38,368
Speaker 2: and making sure your shoes were on tight in case

331
00:19:38,408 --> 00:19:41,768
Speaker 2: you had to run things that back then seemed to

332
00:19:41,808 --> 00:19:45,248
Speaker 2: me there's a little bit of paranoia about him. It's

333
00:19:45,288 --> 00:19:49,288
Speaker 2: a strange mix, because when he wasn't showing signs of

334
00:19:49,328 --> 00:19:52,888
Speaker 2: a little bit of paranoia, he was super good, fun

335
00:19:53,248 --> 00:19:56,608
Speaker 2: and funny. We'd wake up in the morning on a

336
00:19:56,648 --> 00:20:00,687
Speaker 2: regular day and I might have a class to go to,

337
00:20:00,968 --> 00:20:02,688
Speaker 2: or I have my daughter to get to day care.

338
00:20:03,448 --> 00:20:06,288
Speaker 2: So my days were very there was pattern, but you know,

339
00:20:06,328 --> 00:20:09,048
Speaker 2: I was coming and going at different times, and so

340
00:20:09,208 --> 00:20:11,608
Speaker 2: I might go to UNI and then come home at

341
00:20:11,608 --> 00:20:15,167
Speaker 2: around two o'clock and he would just be sitting in

342
00:20:15,208 --> 00:20:17,768
Speaker 2: the living room looking like he really hadn't done much

343
00:20:17,768 --> 00:20:22,967
Speaker 2: at all. I was starting to get frustrated, and I

344
00:20:23,008 --> 00:20:27,288
Speaker 2: just couldn't understand it. Was trying. For a while, I

345
00:20:27,288 --> 00:20:29,768
Speaker 2: would say, well, let's let's go somewhere, let's go for

346
00:20:29,808 --> 00:20:32,407
Speaker 2: a walk, let's go down and have a coffee. And

347
00:20:32,448 --> 00:20:35,128
Speaker 2: he would say, yep, yep, that sounds good, that sounds good,

348
00:20:35,168 --> 00:20:38,648
Speaker 2: and he'd sort of put his shoes on and then say, oh,

349
00:20:38,688 --> 00:20:40,608
Speaker 2: you know, don't sort of feel like it right now.

350
00:20:40,648 --> 00:20:43,328
Speaker 2: And I was like, why, you know, I'm just feeling

351
00:20:43,328 --> 00:20:45,608
Speaker 2: really anxious at the moment, and I just I would

352
00:20:45,648 --> 00:20:47,928
Speaker 2: love to go with you, but I you know, sometimes

353
00:20:47,968 --> 00:20:51,528
Speaker 2: he would just get so frustrated and upset with himself

354
00:20:51,568 --> 00:20:53,568
Speaker 2: and he'd say, I don't care, I'm going to do it.

355
00:20:53,568 --> 00:20:55,088
Speaker 2: I'm going to do it. I'm just going to do it.

356
00:20:55,568 --> 00:20:58,927
Speaker 1: But the reality was he couldn't, and that frustrating cycle

357
00:20:59,088 --> 00:21:02,768
Speaker 1: soon became the norm. Determined to finances, Lucy started to

358
00:21:02,768 --> 00:21:05,288
Speaker 1: take matters into her own hands and sort out the

359
00:21:05,328 --> 00:21:09,048
Speaker 1: expertise of a professional to unravel the health related mystery.

360
00:21:09,248 --> 00:21:12,248
Speaker 2: We got an appointment in a clinic, so we went

361
00:21:12,288 --> 00:21:16,488
Speaker 2: to that clinic once a week for about eight or

362
00:21:16,488 --> 00:21:19,488
Speaker 2: twelve weeks, I think it was. He had a really

363
00:21:19,568 --> 00:21:24,768
Speaker 2: lovely counselor there, and she said that I believe that

364
00:21:24,808 --> 00:21:28,207
Speaker 2: you're agoraphobic and you have a panic disorder. So what

365
00:21:28,248 --> 00:21:30,728
Speaker 2: you're experiencing when you want to go to a job

366
00:21:30,728 --> 00:21:36,048
Speaker 2: interview is a panic attack, and what you're experiencing when

367
00:21:36,088 --> 00:21:39,048
Speaker 2: you're struggling to get out the front door is what

368
00:21:39,088 --> 00:21:41,808
Speaker 2: we call agrophobia, is the fear of the outdoors and

369
00:21:41,848 --> 00:21:45,648
Speaker 2: open spaces. That made a lot of sense to him.

370
00:21:46,008 --> 00:21:49,248
Speaker 2: It was like, oh, wow, Wow, we finally have some

371
00:21:49,288 --> 00:21:52,608
Speaker 2: sort of diagnosis to work with. Now we can actually

372
00:21:53,368 --> 00:21:56,328
Speaker 2: we can do this. Part of getting him into the

373
00:21:56,368 --> 00:21:59,768
Speaker 2: program at the hospital was that they gave him certain

374
00:21:59,848 --> 00:22:03,248
Speaker 2: exercises to do where he would sort of learn to

375
00:22:03,768 --> 00:22:08,848
Speaker 2: become more desensitized to the feelings of their anxiety and

376
00:22:08,888 --> 00:22:11,448
Speaker 2: the fear and going outdoors. So he would say, yeah,

377
00:22:11,568 --> 00:22:12,967
Speaker 2: I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this,

378
00:22:13,288 --> 00:22:15,808
Speaker 2: and so we'd oh, okay, So we would get our

379
00:22:15,848 --> 00:22:19,968
Speaker 2: stuff together, put our shoes on, go to the front door,

380
00:22:20,008 --> 00:22:22,488
Speaker 2: walk out, go down the street, and he'd sort of

381
00:22:22,528 --> 00:22:26,488
Speaker 2: have to stop, sit down wherever he was. He would say,

382
00:22:26,488 --> 00:22:29,967
Speaker 2: I think I'm going to pass out, and I oh, no,

383
00:22:30,568 --> 00:22:33,927
Speaker 2: I just want to have a cigarette, and it just

384
00:22:33,968 --> 00:22:38,967
Speaker 2: seemed hopeless. It was just hopeless. And then he would say, yet, Na,

385
00:22:39,048 --> 00:22:41,208
Speaker 2: I'm sorry I'm just going to have to go back home,

386
00:22:41,248 --> 00:22:44,088
Speaker 2: but you go ahead, and I couldn't go ahead. It

387
00:22:44,208 --> 00:22:48,008
Speaker 2: was so upsetting, it was so distressing. No matter how

388
00:22:48,048 --> 00:22:50,407
Speaker 2: long we went to the program at the hospital, no

389
00:22:50,488 --> 00:22:54,368
Speaker 2: matter how many of the exercises he did or tried

390
00:22:54,408 --> 00:22:58,248
Speaker 2: to do, it just wasn't getting any better. And in fact,

391
00:22:58,368 --> 00:23:00,168
Speaker 2: it just seemed to be getting worse.

392
00:23:00,488 --> 00:23:03,888
Speaker 1: And they continued to get worse. A year later, still

393
00:23:03,928 --> 00:23:05,128
Speaker 1: no signs of recovery.

394
00:23:05,448 --> 00:23:10,208
Speaker 2: He was becoming really incapacitated. He was starting to get

395
00:23:10,248 --> 00:23:13,407
Speaker 2: to the point where he couldn't go and get food

396
00:23:13,448 --> 00:23:17,008
Speaker 2: for himself during the day. I couldn't just leave him

397
00:23:17,048 --> 00:23:20,248
Speaker 2: like that. I did have the friends that we were

398
00:23:20,248 --> 00:23:23,488
Speaker 2: closed to would go around and check on him sometimes.

399
00:23:24,288 --> 00:23:27,208
Speaker 2: One day, after about a year and a half or so,

400
00:23:27,528 --> 00:23:30,687
Speaker 2: it was a really really hot Brisbane day, and a

401
00:23:30,728 --> 00:23:34,808
Speaker 2: friend said to me, I'm really worried about him. I've

402
00:23:34,888 --> 00:23:37,328
Speaker 2: just been over there to check on him. He's sitting

403
00:23:37,368 --> 00:23:41,568
Speaker 2: inside with all the doors and windows closed. He wouldn't

404
00:23:41,608 --> 00:23:44,088
Speaker 2: answer the door when this friend was knocking, but when

405
00:23:44,168 --> 00:23:46,608
Speaker 2: Lars realized who it was, he did answer the door.

406
00:23:47,328 --> 00:23:50,768
Speaker 2: My friend said he was sweating a lot and he

407
00:23:50,968 --> 00:23:55,128
Speaker 2: had really bad anxiety, but let him in and he

408
00:23:55,248 --> 00:23:57,408
Speaker 2: just sort of said to him, I'm right, No need

409
00:23:57,448 --> 00:23:59,488
Speaker 2: to worry about me. No, I'm fine, I'm just yet.

410
00:23:59,568 --> 00:24:01,208
Speaker 2: It is hot, isn't it. And then he sort of

411
00:24:01,248 --> 00:24:04,207
Speaker 2: opened a window or two, and my friend went on

412
00:24:04,248 --> 00:24:07,088
Speaker 2: their way. He was just sort of going past. Lars

413
00:24:07,128 --> 00:24:10,568
Speaker 2: also had a best friend called Eric. They were really

414
00:24:10,608 --> 00:24:13,728
Speaker 2: great friends and they met through the same club and

415
00:24:14,208 --> 00:24:18,248
Speaker 2: Eric started to be more involved at this stage in

416
00:24:18,368 --> 00:24:22,728
Speaker 2: Lars's life, which was lovely, and could see there was

417
00:24:22,768 --> 00:24:26,968
Speaker 2: something going on, and there was this agrophobia and panic disorder,

418
00:24:27,008 --> 00:24:31,407
Speaker 2: and could see that he was becoming incapacitated and needed

419
00:24:31,568 --> 00:24:34,288
Speaker 2: help with some things just in terms of getting food

420
00:24:34,448 --> 00:24:37,247
Speaker 2: or he couldn't go anywhere. If he could go anywhere,

421
00:24:37,288 --> 00:24:39,447
Speaker 2: he could never have gone by himself. He had to

422
00:24:39,448 --> 00:24:42,608
Speaker 2: have someone with him. Around the two year mark, we

423
00:24:42,728 --> 00:24:45,447
Speaker 2: had a ring and he put it on my finger

424
00:24:45,528 --> 00:24:49,128
Speaker 2: and he said, I still don't have the love for

425
00:24:49,208 --> 00:24:51,888
Speaker 2: the rest of my life word for you, but if

426
00:24:51,928 --> 00:24:56,328
Speaker 2: you were this, that's the best I can do. I

427
00:24:56,408 --> 00:25:00,408
Speaker 2: felt certain I would marry him when he got when

428
00:25:00,408 --> 00:25:04,448
Speaker 2: he got through this, I felt certain we would travel together.

429
00:25:05,048 --> 00:25:07,608
Speaker 2: It was just how can we find the right help.

430
00:25:07,608 --> 00:25:10,208
Speaker 2: We're doing everything, but we can't get the right help.

431
00:25:10,608 --> 00:25:13,488
Speaker 2: At the same time, I had a couple of people

432
00:25:13,568 --> 00:25:17,768
Speaker 2: saying to me, this is ridiculous. These are the people

433
00:25:17,848 --> 00:25:20,608
Speaker 2: that weren't in my closer circle, but sort of saying

434
00:25:20,648 --> 00:25:24,688
Speaker 2: to me, you're a part time single mum and you're

435
00:25:24,688 --> 00:25:27,768
Speaker 2: caring for this adult. You know, twenty four to seven.

436
00:25:27,848 --> 00:25:31,048
Speaker 2: You're in a care a role. It's not a partnership.

437
00:25:31,568 --> 00:25:33,608
Speaker 2: You can't go out together. You can't walk down the

438
00:25:33,608 --> 00:25:35,927
Speaker 2: street together. You can't go for a meal together, you

439
00:25:35,928 --> 00:25:39,088
Speaker 2: can't go see a film together, you can't do anything together.

440
00:25:39,888 --> 00:25:42,528
Speaker 2: You're missing out big time. You know other people your

441
00:25:42,568 --> 00:25:45,848
Speaker 2: age are out there having a lovely time. And I

442
00:25:45,928 --> 00:25:49,048
Speaker 2: did stop feeling like it's missing out. None of the

443
00:25:49,288 --> 00:25:54,687
Speaker 2: help he was getting was helping. It was just getting

444
00:25:54,688 --> 00:25:57,808
Speaker 2: worse and worse. There were times I'd come home and

445
00:25:57,888 --> 00:26:01,048
Speaker 2: he hadn't even left the bed. He was still in

446
00:26:01,128 --> 00:26:05,488
Speaker 2: bed and nothing had changed, he hadn't eaten. It just

447
00:26:05,488 --> 00:26:10,768
Speaker 2: seemed hopeless. So I made a really difficult decision and said,

448
00:26:11,248 --> 00:26:13,967
Speaker 2: I can't do this anymore and I'm not helping, like

449
00:26:14,048 --> 00:26:18,048
Speaker 2: that's clear no matter what I'm doing. I became scared,

450
00:26:18,088 --> 00:26:21,608
Speaker 2: what if I'm enabling this. What if by me taking

451
00:26:21,648 --> 00:26:24,208
Speaker 2: care of him all the time and trying to help

452
00:26:24,248 --> 00:26:28,328
Speaker 2: all the time, is actually just keeping him stuck. What

453
00:26:28,368 --> 00:26:31,408
Speaker 2: if this means that he can't get better because I'm

454
00:26:31,448 --> 00:26:35,848
Speaker 2: doing the wrong thing. His friend Eric was really in

455
00:26:35,888 --> 00:26:39,608
Speaker 2: the picture a lot then. I really liked Eric a lot.

456
00:26:39,968 --> 00:26:43,768
Speaker 2: We stayed very good friends. But he was moving into

457
00:26:43,808 --> 00:26:46,768
Speaker 2: a house nearby and said to Lars, would you like

458
00:26:46,848 --> 00:26:49,728
Speaker 2: to move into this house? And Lars took him up

459
00:26:49,768 --> 00:26:52,368
Speaker 2: on it. So I stayed in the house that I

460
00:26:52,408 --> 00:26:56,407
Speaker 2: had lived with Lars. And it was really hard. Oh,

461
00:26:56,568 --> 00:26:59,968
Speaker 2: such a difficult time. I still wanted to be with him.

462
00:27:00,128 --> 00:27:02,928
Speaker 2: I worried about him all the time, but I knew

463
00:27:02,928 --> 00:27:05,488
Speaker 2: I had to try to see if by me not

464
00:27:05,608 --> 00:27:06,768
Speaker 2: being around would help.

465
00:27:07,488 --> 00:27:10,208
Speaker 1: It was a decision Lucy had to make, and one

466
00:27:10,248 --> 00:27:12,248
Speaker 1: that Lars understood and supported.

467
00:27:13,488 --> 00:27:18,408
Speaker 2: He was so sad, but he said, this is good

468
00:27:18,488 --> 00:27:21,008
Speaker 2: for you. You need to do this, Bob. He always got

469
00:27:21,048 --> 00:27:23,608
Speaker 2: me bump. I want to see you go out with

470
00:27:23,648 --> 00:27:28,088
Speaker 2: your friends. It's awful seeing you not living a full

471
00:27:28,128 --> 00:27:32,328
Speaker 2: life because you're looking after me. I want to see

472
00:27:32,368 --> 00:27:35,368
Speaker 2: you travel. Now. I'm starting to think it's never going

473
00:27:35,408 --> 00:27:38,848
Speaker 2: to get better for me. But you can and you should.

474
00:27:39,008 --> 00:27:43,768
Speaker 2: You know, that was just typical Lars. He just one

475
00:27:43,808 --> 00:27:48,008
Speaker 2: of the best for other people. We kept seeing each

476
00:27:48,048 --> 00:27:52,408
Speaker 2: other on a friendship basis. I did start getting out more.

477
00:27:53,408 --> 00:27:57,088
Speaker 2: I couldn't say I was enjoying myself at all. In fact,

478
00:27:57,128 --> 00:28:00,407
Speaker 2: I was making some really weird choices and decisions at

479
00:28:00,408 --> 00:28:03,328
Speaker 2: that point. Like I went on a few dates with

480
00:28:03,608 --> 00:28:06,687
Speaker 2: a couple of people, and I just I would just

481
00:28:06,728 --> 00:28:09,967
Speaker 2: be there thinking, I hate this, I'm not you know

482
00:28:10,008 --> 00:28:12,927
Speaker 2: where I want to be. I'm just going to have

483
00:28:12,968 --> 00:28:15,447
Speaker 2: to ride this out, you know, and see if he

484
00:28:15,488 --> 00:28:19,328
Speaker 2: gets better without me. And we saw each other as friends.

485
00:28:19,488 --> 00:28:21,648
Speaker 2: We were in walking distance from each other, so I

486
00:28:21,688 --> 00:28:25,968
Speaker 2: could walk over there whenever I wanted. I started painting

487
00:28:25,968 --> 00:28:30,648
Speaker 2: a lot, so studying painting. Even though I had the

488
00:28:30,688 --> 00:28:33,447
Speaker 2: opportunity to be going out more and doing more, I

489
00:28:33,528 --> 00:28:36,808
Speaker 2: just tended to throw myself into my painting a lot

490
00:28:36,848 --> 00:28:39,848
Speaker 2: and spend a lot of time on my own at home,

491
00:28:40,168 --> 00:28:42,968
Speaker 2: and then I'd walk over and visit. After about three

492
00:28:42,968 --> 00:28:45,168
Speaker 2: months of him moving out, I was going over there

493
00:28:45,208 --> 00:28:47,408
Speaker 2: a lot to visit. It was clear that he wasn't

494
00:28:47,448 --> 00:28:50,568
Speaker 2: getting any better, and that he was getting worse Eric,

495
00:28:50,688 --> 00:28:54,088
Speaker 2: his friend called me and I went over there to

496
00:28:54,168 --> 00:28:59,248
Speaker 2: their place and Lars was just really ill. He was

497
00:28:59,288 --> 00:29:03,928
Speaker 2: in pain, he had a really bad headache, he'd been sick.

498
00:29:03,968 --> 00:29:07,928
Speaker 2: He couldn't hold any water down, he was getting dehydrated,

499
00:29:09,248 --> 00:29:13,768
Speaker 2: and so we took him to the Royal Brisbane Hospital.

500
00:29:14,768 --> 00:29:18,168
Speaker 2: They took ages. We had to wait for so long.

501
00:29:18,608 --> 00:29:20,888
Speaker 2: Eventually they took him in and they said we're going

502
00:29:20,928 --> 00:29:23,648
Speaker 2: to run some tests and he can be here overnight

503
00:29:23,688 --> 00:29:27,048
Speaker 2: and we'll keep we'll observe him. They did that, and

504
00:29:27,088 --> 00:29:29,408
Speaker 2: then I was at home again and I got a

505
00:29:29,408 --> 00:29:33,728
Speaker 2: call from Lars at about six in the morning saying, yeah,

506
00:29:33,808 --> 00:29:35,888
Speaker 2: you know what, they want me out of here. And

507
00:29:35,968 --> 00:29:38,488
Speaker 2: I said why, what's going on? And he said they

508
00:29:38,568 --> 00:29:40,248
Speaker 2: just told me they need the bed and I've got

509
00:29:40,328 --> 00:29:42,928
Speaker 2: to go. And I said, well, what have they done

510
00:29:43,008 --> 00:29:45,168
Speaker 2: for you and he said nothing. They just ran some

511
00:29:45,288 --> 00:29:47,288
Speaker 2: tests and I said what tests and he said, I

512
00:29:47,328 --> 00:29:50,728
Speaker 2: don't know, blood test your own sample. And I said, well,

513
00:29:51,048 --> 00:29:52,448
Speaker 2: what are they going to do to help you and

514
00:29:52,528 --> 00:29:55,088
Speaker 2: he said nothing. They just said, you know, you need

515
00:29:55,128 --> 00:29:57,848
Speaker 2: to go home. They gave him a follow up appointment

516
00:29:57,888 --> 00:30:01,648
Speaker 2: about three days after this, so his mother came and

517
00:30:01,688 --> 00:30:04,768
Speaker 2: we went together and took him to the hospital. I mean,

518
00:30:04,768 --> 00:30:08,208
Speaker 2: he was a huge fellow as she was on one

519
00:30:08,288 --> 00:30:10,368
Speaker 2: side under one arm and I was the other, and

520
00:30:10,408 --> 00:30:14,368
Speaker 2: we walked him into the waiting room. I was asking, please,

521
00:30:14,408 --> 00:30:17,168
Speaker 2: can we have someone to see him sooner? He's really unwell.

522
00:30:18,368 --> 00:30:20,288
Speaker 2: So he was laying on the concrete floor at that

523
00:30:20,368 --> 00:30:22,608
Speaker 2: point with my bag under his head for a pillow.

524
00:30:22,888 --> 00:30:26,488
Speaker 2: He couldn't sit up at all. Then the specialist called

525
00:30:26,568 --> 00:30:29,088
Speaker 2: him in. His mum and I had to help him up.

526
00:30:29,608 --> 00:30:33,168
Speaker 2: We took him into the specialist appointment, and she looked

527
00:30:33,168 --> 00:30:37,768
Speaker 2: like she just could not be fucked with us. She

528
00:30:38,808 --> 00:30:41,088
Speaker 2: said to him, right last, your tests have all come

529
00:30:41,128 --> 00:30:44,488
Speaker 2: back negative. There's nothing wrong with you. And I was saying,

530
00:30:44,488 --> 00:30:46,808
Speaker 2: how can you say there's nothing wrong with him? How

531
00:30:46,808 --> 00:30:51,128
Speaker 2: can you say there's nothing wrong this? Obviously? She said, no,

532
00:30:51,288 --> 00:30:54,248
Speaker 2: we can't find anything, and you just really need to

533
00:30:54,288 --> 00:30:57,568
Speaker 2: go home and get your lifestyle sorted. There was an

534
00:30:57,608 --> 00:31:01,328
Speaker 2: assumption that he had a less than ideal lifestyle. I

535
00:31:01,328 --> 00:31:03,448
Speaker 2: don't know what that meant. At the time, I was thinking,

536
00:31:03,528 --> 00:31:08,408
Speaker 2: is she suggesting substance abuse? Is she suggesting that we

537
00:31:08,568 --> 00:31:11,288
Speaker 2: just don't know how to look after ourselves. I couldn't.

538
00:31:11,568 --> 00:31:13,608
Speaker 2: I said, well, I come not going anywhere, and I

539
00:31:13,648 --> 00:31:16,928
Speaker 2: want a psychiatric evaluation. Then if you're saying there's nothing

540
00:31:16,928 --> 00:31:19,608
Speaker 2: physically wrong with him, then I want a psychiatric evaluation,

541
00:31:19,648 --> 00:31:22,408
Speaker 2: and I won't leave until we get one. It became

542
00:31:22,448 --> 00:31:24,768
Speaker 2: a bit of a standoff. She said, I'm not getting

543
00:31:24,808 --> 00:31:28,688
Speaker 2: you a psychiatric evaluation. I'm not wasting their time with this.

544
00:31:29,768 --> 00:31:33,048
Speaker 2: And she said, look, my advice to you is if

545
00:31:33,128 --> 00:31:35,888
Speaker 2: you're saying you can't see properly and you can't stand

546
00:31:35,968 --> 00:31:39,568
Speaker 2: up properly, go home and have a proper meal. You're

547
00:31:39,608 --> 00:31:43,208
Speaker 2: probably hyperglyss semic. I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

548
00:31:43,448 --> 00:31:46,248
Speaker 2: And then she said, when I say a proper meal,

549
00:31:46,328 --> 00:31:50,128
Speaker 2: I don't mean beer and chips. And then we left.

550
00:31:50,728 --> 00:31:54,208
Speaker 2: It was an awful way to be treated. And I

551
00:31:54,248 --> 00:31:58,168
Speaker 2: think the thing for Lars was he kept being told

552
00:31:58,208 --> 00:32:00,648
Speaker 2: that this is all in your head. This is all

553
00:32:00,688 --> 00:32:03,488
Speaker 2: because you're not living properly. This is all in your head.

554
00:32:03,848 --> 00:32:06,208
Speaker 2: I said to her when we were leaving. He can't

555
00:32:06,448 --> 00:32:09,048
Speaker 2: hold down water, he's not eating peer and chips, he

556
00:32:09,088 --> 00:32:12,288
Speaker 2: can't even hold water. And she just didn't want a

557
00:32:12,368 --> 00:32:13,728
Speaker 2: bar of us.

558
00:32:14,848 --> 00:32:16,768
Speaker 1: No one could seem to figure out what was going

559
00:32:16,808 --> 00:32:20,088
Speaker 1: on with Lars. The hospital visits brought no answers, and

560
00:32:20,128 --> 00:32:23,048
Speaker 1: nothing they tried seemed to help. Through it all, Lucy

561
00:32:23,088 --> 00:32:26,088
Speaker 1: did her best to hold everything together, clinging to some

562
00:32:26,128 --> 00:32:28,248
Speaker 1: sense of normality amid the uncertainty.

563
00:32:29,048 --> 00:32:34,128
Speaker 2: I had a birthday dinner at my place and Robert

564
00:32:34,528 --> 00:32:37,528
Speaker 2: was invited with the few other close friends that really

565
00:32:38,168 --> 00:32:41,528
Speaker 2: were very supportive of my relationship with Lars. And I

566
00:32:41,568 --> 00:32:44,328
Speaker 2: invited Lars and he said, I don't think I'm going

567
00:32:44,368 --> 00:32:47,688
Speaker 2: to be able to come, because it just physically I can't.

568
00:32:47,768 --> 00:32:50,088
Speaker 2: Robert went and made sure that he picked him up

569
00:32:50,408 --> 00:32:52,728
Speaker 2: and coaxed him out the door and brought him to

570
00:32:52,768 --> 00:32:57,408
Speaker 2: the birthday dinner, which was amazing. But when he arrived

571
00:32:57,448 --> 00:33:00,448
Speaker 2: at my birthday dinner, I could see he was just

572
00:33:00,608 --> 00:33:03,848
Speaker 2: so unwell, but doing everything he could to just be

573
00:33:04,048 --> 00:33:06,888
Speaker 2: there and just sit there. And I was in the

574
00:33:06,968 --> 00:33:10,128
Speaker 2: kitchen and Robert came in and he said, you know,

575
00:33:10,448 --> 00:33:15,528
Speaker 2: on the way here, Lars dropped something on the car floor.

576
00:33:16,448 --> 00:33:18,568
Speaker 2: And he said, I noticed that when he tried to

577
00:33:18,648 --> 00:33:21,128
Speaker 2: lean forward to pick it up, he was trying to

578
00:33:21,208 --> 00:33:26,528
Speaker 2: pick up this thing in several different places, and it

579
00:33:26,608 --> 00:33:30,528
Speaker 2: was really odd. He just couldn't seem to see where

580
00:33:30,528 --> 00:33:33,448
Speaker 2: this coin was that he dropped on the floor. And

581
00:33:33,608 --> 00:33:37,528
Speaker 2: I said to Lars later that night, you're in a

582
00:33:37,528 --> 00:33:39,888
Speaker 2: really bad way, and you said, yes. See. The funny

583
00:33:39,888 --> 00:33:42,648
Speaker 2: thing is is I can see several of you right now.

584
00:33:42,968 --> 00:33:46,648
Speaker 2: And I said, oh, okay, and then I was looking

585
00:33:46,648 --> 00:33:48,368
Speaker 2: at him and I could see that one of his

586
00:33:48,488 --> 00:33:52,208
Speaker 2: eyes wasn't pointing in the same direction as the other eye.

587
00:33:53,128 --> 00:33:55,208
Speaker 2: I said, okay, I'm going to come to your place

588
00:33:55,288 --> 00:33:57,968
Speaker 2: now with you, and I'm going to stay there until

589
00:33:58,008 --> 00:34:02,088
Speaker 2: we can get some help. It was really desperate. Day

590
00:34:02,128 --> 00:34:05,448
Speaker 2: after my birthday was the Saturday morning. I called the

591
00:34:05,488 --> 00:34:09,368
Speaker 2: optometrist in town and I said, please, can you see

592
00:34:09,408 --> 00:34:12,688
Speaker 2: my We were saying friend then, because we had supposed

593
00:34:12,688 --> 00:34:15,527
Speaker 2: to have separated. Can you see my friend. He's got

594
00:34:15,527 --> 00:34:17,968
Speaker 2: one eye going the wrong way and he said, yeah,

595
00:34:18,008 --> 00:34:22,128
Speaker 2: bring him in. I took him in, and this fellow

596
00:34:22,688 --> 00:34:27,768
Speaker 2: was really kind and said, I want you to go

597
00:34:27,848 --> 00:34:31,568
Speaker 2: straight to the Princess Alexandra emergency rooms. I'm going to

598
00:34:31,648 --> 00:34:34,127
Speaker 2: call ahead and let them know you're coming. And so

599
00:34:34,208 --> 00:34:38,968
Speaker 2: we got to the Princess Alexandra Hospital in the waiting room,

600
00:34:39,008 --> 00:34:41,208
Speaker 2: but then they kind of came and said, Las, come

601
00:34:41,248 --> 00:34:43,288
Speaker 2: through this way, and they said to me, you're best

602
00:34:43,288 --> 00:34:46,288
Speaker 2: to go home for a little while. Lars will call

603
00:34:46,368 --> 00:34:48,728
Speaker 2: you when we're done with We're going to run some tests.

604
00:34:48,848 --> 00:34:50,768
Speaker 2: And I thought to myself, I bet not do a

605
00:34:50,888 --> 00:34:54,088
Speaker 2: CT scan, which is what I felt should have happened

606
00:34:54,128 --> 00:34:57,688
Speaker 2: before this, but they wouldn't give him one. Then I

607
00:34:57,728 --> 00:35:01,168
Speaker 2: got a call, not from Lars, but from the technician thing,

608
00:35:01,768 --> 00:35:04,488
Speaker 2: can you come in when we need to speak to you.

609
00:35:04,568 --> 00:35:07,127
Speaker 2: So I went in and waited and they called my name.

610
00:35:08,288 --> 00:35:11,047
Speaker 2: I went in and the technician said I'm going to

611
00:35:11,088 --> 00:35:13,768
Speaker 2: leave you and Lars to talk, and he walked out

612
00:35:13,808 --> 00:35:17,048
Speaker 2: of the room and Lars just sort of propped himself

613
00:35:17,168 --> 00:35:19,848
Speaker 2: up a little bit on the bed and he said,

614
00:35:19,848 --> 00:35:30,008
Speaker 2: to me, they're saying I've got a brain tumor. They said,

615
00:35:30,168 --> 00:35:33,248
Speaker 2: you know, it's okay. We're going to take care of you.

616
00:35:33,328 --> 00:35:35,607
Speaker 2: We'll get you through this and it'll be okay. And

617
00:35:35,968 --> 00:35:39,888
Speaker 2: medicine is so good now, it's so good. And there's

618
00:35:39,928 --> 00:35:43,968
Speaker 2: also alternate therapies. I'd heard there's alternate therapies. You know,

619
00:35:44,968 --> 00:35:49,568
Speaker 2: we'll do everything, and I need to protect him. Just no,

620
00:35:49,808 --> 00:35:54,168
Speaker 2: this can't be happening. This can't be true the realization

621
00:35:54,848 --> 00:35:58,768
Speaker 2: two of my love. At that point, it had never

622
00:35:58,848 --> 00:36:01,687
Speaker 2: gone anywhere, had been there the whole time. Even though

623
00:36:01,728 --> 00:36:04,728
Speaker 2: we tried to see if me not being around would

624
00:36:04,768 --> 00:36:10,768
Speaker 2: help them, none of my feelings had diminished grown stronger.

625
00:36:11,208 --> 00:36:15,488
Speaker 1: Doctors performed a brain biopsy and began chemotherapy. Eric and

626
00:36:15,568 --> 00:36:18,608
Speaker 1: Lucy were by his side constantly at the hospital. The

627
00:36:18,688 --> 00:36:23,288
Speaker 1: diagnosis was devastating, a nine by nine centimeter glia blastoma

628
00:36:23,448 --> 00:36:27,687
Speaker 1: multiform tumor. It was inoperable. The cancer has bided into

629
00:36:27,768 --> 00:36:31,008
Speaker 1: surrounding areas of the brain, and attempting surgery would have

630
00:36:31,048 --> 00:36:33,488
Speaker 1: destroyed the little healthy tissue Lars had left.

631
00:36:34,248 --> 00:36:36,768
Speaker 2: A different doctor came in and asked if he could

632
00:36:36,768 --> 00:36:39,968
Speaker 2: speak to Lars's mother and I. We went into his

633
00:36:40,088 --> 00:36:42,648
Speaker 2: room and I said, what is going to happen? And

634
00:36:43,288 --> 00:36:46,567
Speaker 2: he said, well, this could kill him, and as what

635
00:36:46,648 --> 00:36:49,008
Speaker 2: do we tell him? He doesn't really know, and he said,

636
00:36:49,048 --> 00:36:52,527
Speaker 2: I don't think you tell him anything. He's twenty one

637
00:36:52,768 --> 00:36:57,288
Speaker 2: turning twenty two year old young man. You know, if

638
00:36:57,328 --> 00:37:00,648
Speaker 2: he survives for a while, why destroy the time that

639
00:37:00,688 --> 00:37:04,928
Speaker 2: he has has left. I couldn't quite get my head

640
00:37:04,928 --> 00:37:10,248
Speaker 2: around whether he should be told or not, so his

641
00:37:10,368 --> 00:37:14,208
Speaker 2: mother and I went back in to sit with him.

642
00:37:14,528 --> 00:37:17,768
Speaker 2: The same doctor familiar on just came over to us

643
00:37:17,888 --> 00:37:20,208
Speaker 2: and said, I'm just going to show you a chart here, Lars.

644
00:37:20,848 --> 00:37:23,448
Speaker 2: This shows the number of people with your type of

645
00:37:23,648 --> 00:37:26,848
Speaker 2: brain tumor that survived to five years of having the

646
00:37:26,888 --> 00:37:29,647
Speaker 2: timber from start to go, and it was about two

647
00:37:29,688 --> 00:37:35,368
Speaker 2: percent that survived five years. And so, in one way,

648
00:37:35,728 --> 00:37:38,087
Speaker 2: Lars was he said to me, In one way, I'm

649
00:37:38,128 --> 00:37:40,768
Speaker 2: relieved it wasn't all in my head like people had

650
00:37:40,808 --> 00:37:45,848
Speaker 2: me believing. It actually is something that's caused this. We

651
00:37:45,888 --> 00:37:49,167
Speaker 2: did look into alternative therapies. There were books that said,

652
00:37:49,168 --> 00:37:52,288
Speaker 2: if you follow every step in this book, no matter

653
00:37:52,328 --> 00:37:56,488
Speaker 2: you're cancer, no matter the stage, you can recover. But

654
00:37:56,528 --> 00:37:58,968
Speaker 2: you can't it's impossible to follow all the steps in

655
00:37:59,008 --> 00:38:02,768
Speaker 2: the book. Robert had looked into a clinic in South

656
00:38:02,768 --> 00:38:07,808
Speaker 2: America with alternate sort of therapies and was ready to

657
00:38:08,008 --> 00:38:11,408
Speaker 2: get our airfares together for that. Just said we might

658
00:38:11,448 --> 00:38:14,607
Speaker 2: as well try everything. I just stayed with him. Then.

659
00:38:15,568 --> 00:38:19,888
Speaker 2: It might have been about three weeks he was at home,

660
00:38:20,088 --> 00:38:24,128
Speaker 2: and it is true that the release of pressure in

661
00:38:24,168 --> 00:38:27,087
Speaker 2: the brain, he could actually get out of bed, he

662
00:38:27,128 --> 00:38:29,728
Speaker 2: could go to the front door, we walked down the street,

663
00:38:29,928 --> 00:38:32,168
Speaker 2: we went to a movie, we went and did things

664
00:38:32,208 --> 00:38:35,448
Speaker 2: that we could never do before. And he was saying,

665
00:38:36,168 --> 00:38:39,448
Speaker 2: isn't this just amazing? Isn't this amazing?

666
00:38:39,528 --> 00:38:39,968
Speaker 1: Look at me?

667
00:38:40,168 --> 00:38:42,808
Speaker 2: Look at me? And I was saying, I know. And

668
00:38:42,888 --> 00:38:45,648
Speaker 2: he was saying, what if we can beat this? What

669
00:38:45,728 --> 00:38:48,368
Speaker 2: if we can beat this? Look see, without the pressure

670
00:38:48,928 --> 00:38:52,167
Speaker 2: in my brain, I can do anything. And I was saying, yeah, no,

671
00:38:52,248 --> 00:38:56,328
Speaker 2: it's incredible. And we actually did have hope. So it

672
00:38:56,408 --> 00:39:00,168
Speaker 2: might have been about three weeks after the biopsy on

673
00:39:00,208 --> 00:39:03,288
Speaker 2: the brain, we went to the GP just to get

674
00:39:03,288 --> 00:39:06,127
Speaker 2: the stitches out and to be checked on. He'd been

675
00:39:06,168 --> 00:39:10,368
Speaker 2: put on some fairly strong medications. Las had a sort

676
00:39:10,368 --> 00:39:13,408
Speaker 2: of said to the GP, you see, there's this one

677
00:39:13,448 --> 00:39:15,607
Speaker 2: thing I'm worried about. One of these medicines i'm on

678
00:39:16,608 --> 00:39:18,648
Speaker 2: says one of the side effects is that your gums

679
00:39:18,688 --> 00:39:21,768
Speaker 2: start growing down over your teeth. And he said, I'm

680
00:39:21,808 --> 00:39:23,768
Speaker 2: just I'm a little bit worried about that. That doesn't

681
00:39:23,808 --> 00:39:26,808
Speaker 2: sound too good. And the GP said to him, oh,

682
00:39:26,968 --> 00:39:30,248
Speaker 2: don't worry. That takes about six months before that starts happening.

683
00:39:30,848 --> 00:39:32,968
Speaker 2: And Lars said to him, oh, well, how long am

684
00:39:33,008 --> 00:39:36,687
Speaker 2: I going to be taking it for and the GP said,

685
00:39:36,768 --> 00:39:39,448
Speaker 2: well for the rest of your life. Lars looked at

686
00:39:39,448 --> 00:39:43,248
Speaker 2: me again. His eyes were huge and frightened, and it

687
00:39:43,288 --> 00:39:47,928
Speaker 2: was dawning on him. Then. Oh. We hadn't explicitly said

688
00:39:47,968 --> 00:39:51,647
Speaker 2: to him, doesn't look like you will survive, but we

689
00:39:51,648 --> 00:39:54,928
Speaker 2: were beginning to get the idea. It was strained because

690
00:39:54,968 --> 00:39:58,368
Speaker 2: we still didn't really know. Nobody had really explicitly sat

691
00:39:58,448 --> 00:40:01,688
Speaker 2: us down and said, look, he's not long for the world.

692
00:40:02,928 --> 00:40:05,448
Speaker 2: We went home that day and I was sitting on

693
00:40:05,608 --> 00:40:09,848
Speaker 2: his bed and he was looking at me, and she

694
00:40:09,928 --> 00:40:13,928
Speaker 2: used to hold my face in his hands, and he

695
00:40:14,048 --> 00:40:17,008
Speaker 2: was sitting up. He said, he was just looking in

696
00:40:17,088 --> 00:40:19,527
Speaker 2: my eyes, and he said, you know that you are

697
00:40:19,608 --> 00:40:23,288
Speaker 2: the best friend I've ever had in my life. And

698
00:40:23,688 --> 00:40:27,208
Speaker 2: I said, you're You're my best friend too. He said,

699
00:40:27,528 --> 00:40:31,087
Speaker 2: I mean that with everything in my heart. I love

700
00:40:31,128 --> 00:40:33,848
Speaker 2: you more than anything. I said, thank you, I love

701
00:40:33,928 --> 00:40:37,087
Speaker 2: you too the same. I just laid on the bed

702
00:40:37,128 --> 00:40:40,728
Speaker 2: with him and he helped me for ages. I think

703
00:40:40,848 --> 00:40:45,008
Speaker 2: he was much braver than I was. His mother came

704
00:40:45,048 --> 00:40:49,528
Speaker 2: over later that day and we'd cooked dinner. We tried

705
00:40:49,568 --> 00:40:53,047
Speaker 2: to give him dinner, but he was starting to say

706
00:40:53,088 --> 00:40:56,047
Speaker 2: that day that I'm actually starting to feel quite a

707
00:40:56,088 --> 00:40:58,768
Speaker 2: bit of pain again. He started going down here really

708
00:40:58,848 --> 00:41:03,488
Speaker 2: quickly that day and he was saying, oh, I've got

709
00:41:03,488 --> 00:41:06,768
Speaker 2: a splitting headache. And I was saying, okay, okay, you

710
00:41:06,888 --> 00:41:09,047
Speaker 2: just need rest. You know, we've probably been doing a

711
00:41:09,048 --> 00:41:11,488
Speaker 2: lot in the last three weeks while he's been able

712
00:41:11,528 --> 00:41:14,607
Speaker 2: to enjoy life a little bit. And then his mother

713
00:41:14,648 --> 00:41:16,208
Speaker 2: and I were sitting in the living room and we

714
00:41:16,368 --> 00:41:20,968
Speaker 2: heard a terrible noise. We could hear his bed shaking

715
00:41:21,008 --> 00:41:24,968
Speaker 2: around a lot, and his mother immediately jumped up and said,

716
00:41:25,568 --> 00:41:31,607
Speaker 2: he's having a seizure. We ran in and then we

717
00:41:32,328 --> 00:41:34,808
Speaker 2: called the GP that we had seen and he said,

718
00:41:34,848 --> 00:41:36,728
Speaker 2: I'll come straight up. It was sort of seven at

719
00:41:36,808 --> 00:41:39,968
Speaker 2: night or something. He said, I'll come straight up, and

720
00:41:40,848 --> 00:41:44,527
Speaker 2: he was in the bedroom with myself and Lahs and

721
00:41:44,568 --> 00:41:47,168
Speaker 2: he said, just just be with him. I'm going to

722
00:41:47,168 --> 00:41:49,168
Speaker 2: give him an injection. I'm going to give him a

723
00:41:49,168 --> 00:41:55,008
Speaker 2: good dose of morphine. And I said okay, And then

724
00:41:55,048 --> 00:41:56,607
Speaker 2: he just looked at me and he said, have they

725
00:41:56,648 --> 00:41:59,768
Speaker 2: told you what to expect? And I said no, I'm

726
00:41:59,768 --> 00:42:02,808
Speaker 2: not really sure what you mean. And he said, all right, well,

727
00:42:02,848 --> 00:42:05,248
Speaker 2: I'm just going to give him this big dose now,

728
00:42:05,328 --> 00:42:08,448
Speaker 2: a really good dose. It means he'll be comfortable. And

729
00:42:08,528 --> 00:42:10,928
Speaker 2: I said okay, and he did that, and then he

730
00:42:11,008 --> 00:42:15,448
Speaker 2: said if anything changes, call an ambulance. Immediately. Lars went

731
00:42:15,488 --> 00:42:21,288
Speaker 2: to sleep, and then he started vomiting and his mother

732
00:42:21,408 --> 00:42:26,087
Speaker 2: said call an ambulance. So we did, and the ambulance came.

733
00:42:26,448 --> 00:42:29,087
Speaker 2: They sat in the front with the ambulance driver while

734
00:42:29,128 --> 00:42:31,928
Speaker 2: the other paramedic was in the back trying to work

735
00:42:31,968 --> 00:42:34,647
Speaker 2: on him. And when we got to the hospital, they

736
00:42:34,648 --> 00:42:37,087
Speaker 2: told me to wait in the waiting area. His mother

737
00:42:37,168 --> 00:42:39,808
Speaker 2: joined me in the waiting area. Then they called us

738
00:42:39,848 --> 00:42:44,888
Speaker 2: into a little room and a doctor met us and

739
00:42:44,928 --> 00:42:48,488
Speaker 2: she sat us down, and it was strange. She said,

740
00:42:49,408 --> 00:42:51,607
Speaker 2: you know, we're sorting him out, but we think he's

741
00:42:51,648 --> 00:42:56,728
Speaker 2: probably dying now. It was just the most surreal thing.

742
00:42:58,008 --> 00:42:59,848
Speaker 2: I kept saying, can I see him? Please? Can we go?

743
00:42:59,968 --> 00:43:02,168
Speaker 2: And they said, no, you don't see him at the moment.

744
00:43:02,288 --> 00:43:04,488
Speaker 2: He's got a lot of tubes going in and out

745
00:43:04,488 --> 00:43:06,248
Speaker 2: at the moment. But you know, when we get him

746
00:43:06,288 --> 00:43:08,328
Speaker 2: sort of cleaned up a bit and sorted, you'll be

747
00:43:08,368 --> 00:43:12,488
Speaker 2: able to be with him. So they eventually said we

748
00:43:12,528 --> 00:43:16,808
Speaker 2: can take him upstairs to a room. I was quite amazed.

749
00:43:16,888 --> 00:43:19,448
Speaker 2: We went upstairs. They had him in a room. They

750
00:43:19,488 --> 00:43:22,008
Speaker 2: had a little sort of warm lamp on in the

751
00:43:22,008 --> 00:43:24,888
Speaker 2: corner rather than the big hospital lights, and they also

752
00:43:24,928 --> 00:43:27,008
Speaker 2: had an in a room one of his own as well,

753
00:43:27,688 --> 00:43:30,607
Speaker 2: which was I was amazed that the nurses did that

754
00:43:31,088 --> 00:43:34,648
Speaker 2: for us, and I immediately laid on the bed with

755
00:43:34,768 --> 00:43:38,607
Speaker 2: him with my head on his chest, and his mum

756
00:43:38,728 --> 00:43:42,288
Speaker 2: put his arm over me. I started feeling like he

757
00:43:42,448 --> 00:43:48,968
Speaker 2: wasn't in there. Eventually I felt his hand going really cold,

758
00:43:49,128 --> 00:43:52,968
Speaker 2: his hand on me and his arm was going really cold.

759
00:43:53,208 --> 00:43:55,888
Speaker 2: I kept during the night, I was having breaks and

760
00:43:55,928 --> 00:43:58,248
Speaker 2: getting up and walking around and going back and laying

761
00:43:58,248 --> 00:44:01,808
Speaker 2: with him, and I noticed his hand going blue, and

762
00:44:02,288 --> 00:44:05,768
Speaker 2: I noticed various other parts of him changing color. I

763
00:44:05,848 --> 00:44:07,888
Speaker 2: knew he was around me then, and he wasn't in

764
00:44:07,888 --> 00:44:13,808
Speaker 2: his body anymore. Heartpit grew really really strong, and then

765
00:44:13,888 --> 00:44:19,328
Speaker 2: it just stopped. It was very hard to leave. It

766
00:44:19,408 --> 00:44:21,208
Speaker 2: was really hard to walk away.

767
00:44:22,488 --> 00:44:25,448
Speaker 1: Lars was just twenty two years old when he passed away,

768
00:44:25,808 --> 00:44:29,008
Speaker 1: a mere three and a half weeks after his diagnosis.

769
00:44:29,448 --> 00:44:33,048
Speaker 1: And then in the quiet that followed, strange and inexplicable

770
00:44:33,048 --> 00:44:36,127
Speaker 1: things began to happen. Moments that made Lucy feel as

771
00:44:36,128 --> 00:44:39,088
Speaker 1: though Lars hadn't completely left her side just yet.

772
00:44:39,408 --> 00:44:43,888
Speaker 2: We had some stranger electrical disturbances at home. I moved

773
00:44:43,888 --> 00:44:47,168
Speaker 2: into his room and I lived with Eric, his best friend,

774
00:44:47,408 --> 00:44:49,648
Speaker 2: and we were just so close for the next six months.

775
00:44:49,648 --> 00:44:53,208
Speaker 2: We really got each other through. Lars used to crack

776
00:44:53,248 --> 00:44:57,368
Speaker 2: his knuckles several times. I woke up in those first

777
00:44:57,368 --> 00:45:00,048
Speaker 2: few days and I could hear us cracking his knuckles,

778
00:45:00,048 --> 00:45:03,728
Speaker 2: and I thought, that can't be happening. And I dreamt

779
00:45:03,768 --> 00:45:06,768
Speaker 2: about him a lot. I would have dreams where I

780
00:45:06,848 --> 00:45:09,527
Speaker 2: might be in the city somewhere and I would hear

781
00:45:09,528 --> 00:45:11,527
Speaker 2: as voice and I'd turn and I'd see him in

782
00:45:11,568 --> 00:45:15,087
Speaker 2: a crowd, and you'd be saying, quick, quick, I don't

783
00:45:15,208 --> 00:45:17,728
Speaker 2: have long. Quick. I would run over to him and

784
00:45:17,808 --> 00:45:20,368
Speaker 2: he would just sort of fold me into his chest

785
00:45:20,408 --> 00:45:22,808
Speaker 2: and he would say, it's all right, Bob, it's all right.

786
00:45:22,928 --> 00:45:25,928
Speaker 2: I'm here, and it's all right. You could go back now.

787
00:45:26,008 --> 00:45:28,728
Speaker 2: I don't have long have to go, but it's all right.

788
00:45:30,008 --> 00:45:32,208
Speaker 2: That would be the end of the dream. Used to

789
00:45:32,728 --> 00:45:36,288
Speaker 2: waking up from them. I belong to the skeptic society.

790
00:45:36,368 --> 00:45:41,288
Speaker 2: I don't believe in anything supernatural. I have no faith religion.

791
00:45:42,328 --> 00:45:47,408
Speaker 2: But about maybe eight months after Lars died, a friend

792
00:45:47,488 --> 00:45:50,248
Speaker 2: of mine who was also a friend of Las, said

793
00:45:50,288 --> 00:45:55,207
Speaker 2: to me, Lucy girl, there's this amazing Cleavoyan. You've got

794
00:45:55,208 --> 00:45:57,008
Speaker 2: to come and see hi. My Winnesstor and the other day.

795
00:45:57,048 --> 00:45:59,248
Speaker 2: You've got to come and see him. And I'm like, oh,

796
00:45:59,328 --> 00:46:02,248
Speaker 2: I don't do you don't do that stuff. Come on,

797
00:46:02,368 --> 00:46:03,848
Speaker 2: come on and then we can have a coffee and

798
00:46:03,848 --> 00:46:07,368
Speaker 2: we'll have lunch afterwards. He's like my best gay boyfriend.

799
00:46:08,448 --> 00:46:12,368
Speaker 2: And I said, oh, all right. I went and this

800
00:46:12,488 --> 00:46:16,128
Speaker 2: fellow was in a dark room, all the incense and

801
00:46:16,208 --> 00:46:19,608
Speaker 2: everything else that I don't have a very good attitude

802
00:46:19,608 --> 00:46:23,208
Speaker 2: about sometimes. But I sat down and he said, he

803
00:46:23,288 --> 00:46:27,648
Speaker 2: said there is someone around. There's a boy and I said,

804
00:46:27,808 --> 00:46:31,047
Speaker 2: oh yeah. And he said it's a man and I

805
00:46:31,128 --> 00:46:35,167
Speaker 2: said yeah. And he said, or he's indicating that he

806
00:46:35,208 --> 00:46:38,368
Speaker 2: won't leave until you're ready for him to leave. But

807
00:46:38,488 --> 00:46:40,968
Speaker 2: he does have to leave, but he can't do it

808
00:46:41,048 --> 00:46:43,928
Speaker 2: until you let him go. He's not going to go

809
00:46:44,088 --> 00:46:47,848
Speaker 2: until you're ready, saying this to me, and I said okay,

810
00:46:47,968 --> 00:46:49,928
Speaker 2: and then he said then he just said to me,

811
00:46:50,128 --> 00:46:53,087
Speaker 2: this man is someone you cared about or cared for

812
00:46:53,208 --> 00:46:54,888
Speaker 2: did you have to care for him? And I said,

813
00:46:54,928 --> 00:46:59,888
Speaker 2: I did have to care for someone recently, and he said, well,

814
00:47:00,888 --> 00:47:03,368
Speaker 2: it will come back to you in a different way.

815
00:47:03,448 --> 00:47:05,047
Speaker 2: It will come back to you in the way it

816
00:47:05,088 --> 00:47:08,008
Speaker 2: should be. And who you care for in the future

817
00:47:08,128 --> 00:47:12,168
Speaker 2: is the correct relationship of carer forth somebody. It's funny

818
00:47:12,208 --> 00:47:15,647
Speaker 2: to me because at the age of forty five, completely accidentally,

819
00:47:16,968 --> 00:47:19,448
Speaker 2: I had a son and I look at him and

820
00:47:19,568 --> 00:47:23,368
Speaker 2: his big blue eyes. He comes from a long line

821
00:47:23,408 --> 00:47:25,688
Speaker 2: of brown eyed people. But I do look at him

822
00:47:25,728 --> 00:47:28,728
Speaker 2: and his big blue eyes, and I feel like I

823
00:47:28,808 --> 00:47:32,127
Speaker 2: see Las just a little bit sometimes.

824
00:47:32,808 --> 00:47:35,888
Speaker 1: But beneath it all, the grief was overwhelming at times,

825
00:47:35,928 --> 00:47:39,648
Speaker 1: heavy and all consuming, and the road to emotional recovery

826
00:47:39,928 --> 00:47:41,728
Speaker 1: was long and anything but simple.

827
00:47:42,328 --> 00:47:47,008
Speaker 2: It was so painful. I didn't know that emotional grief

828
00:47:47,088 --> 00:47:50,728
Speaker 2: could cause so much physical pain. Just the pain in

829
00:47:50,768 --> 00:47:56,368
Speaker 2: my chest, in my heart. It was just so intolerable.

830
00:47:56,488 --> 00:48:00,648
Speaker 2: Sometimes became quite unwell. But I painted a lot. I

831
00:48:00,688 --> 00:48:05,128
Speaker 2: got really into my painting, and when I painted, I

832
00:48:05,208 --> 00:48:08,008
Speaker 2: felt like he was with me. That you know, if

833
00:48:08,048 --> 00:48:09,968
Speaker 2: I could say there was a time when he was me,

834
00:48:10,008 --> 00:48:14,567
Speaker 2: it was when I was painting. I also eventually did

835
00:48:14,688 --> 00:48:17,448
Speaker 2: quite a bit of traveling, and I often felt like

836
00:48:17,488 --> 00:48:19,648
Speaker 2: he was with me then as well. I felt like

837
00:48:19,688 --> 00:48:23,127
Speaker 2: I would hear him in my mind say, look at that,

838
00:48:23,248 --> 00:48:26,968
Speaker 2: Look at where you are, feeling like he was very

839
00:48:27,008 --> 00:48:31,208
Speaker 2: happy for me as well at those times, feeling like

840
00:48:31,688 --> 00:48:35,128
Speaker 2: he was loving for me to recover. I feel like

841
00:48:35,688 --> 00:48:38,928
Speaker 2: seven years after I felt like I reached a good

842
00:48:39,648 --> 00:48:45,328
Speaker 2: turning point. I think I probably remained vulnerable for quite

843
00:48:45,328 --> 00:48:50,527
Speaker 2: some time even after that seven years, but I think

844
00:48:50,568 --> 00:48:53,488
Speaker 2: the last few years have been some of the best

845
00:48:53,568 --> 00:48:57,248
Speaker 2: years of my life, and I don't think I would

846
00:48:57,368 --> 00:49:01,728
Speaker 2: have as wonderful a life if that had never happened.

847
00:49:01,968 --> 00:49:06,488
Speaker 2: I am so pleased that I met him, that I

848
00:49:06,568 --> 00:49:08,888
Speaker 2: knew him, that I was there with him at the end.

849
00:49:10,168 --> 00:49:12,208
Speaker 2: I mean, it'd be great if he didn't have a

850
00:49:12,208 --> 00:49:15,087
Speaker 2: brain tumor, but he didn't, and it's nothing that can

851
00:49:15,128 --> 00:49:17,687
Speaker 2: be done about that. Nobody knows what causes them. It's

852
00:49:17,808 --> 00:49:23,648
Speaker 2: just an indiscriminate thing. And I'm just very grateful that

853
00:49:23,768 --> 00:49:29,808
Speaker 2: I was there even as he changed from being who

854
00:49:29,808 --> 00:49:33,688
Speaker 2: he was or what he appeared to be when I

855
00:49:33,688 --> 00:49:38,567
Speaker 2: first met him, to what he became towards the end.

856
00:49:39,288 --> 00:49:45,328
Speaker 2: My love was unwavering. It never it never changed, It

857
00:49:45,448 --> 00:49:52,888
Speaker 2: just grew and grew around him. The biggest takeaway for

858
00:49:53,048 --> 00:49:55,888
Speaker 2: me was that sometimes the worst thing that can happen

859
00:49:55,968 --> 00:49:58,848
Speaker 2: to you can also be the very best thing that

860
00:49:58,968 --> 00:50:05,048
Speaker 2: happened to you. It sounds strange, it's a juxtaposition, but yeah,

861
00:50:05,208 --> 00:50:09,368
Speaker 2: life is awful, and life is very beautiful. It's very fragile,

862
00:50:09,408 --> 00:50:13,448
Speaker 2: and it's very strong. Definitely better to have loved and

863
00:50:13,568 --> 00:50:18,408
Speaker 2: lost than to never have loved at all. And also

864
00:50:18,488 --> 00:50:21,368
Speaker 2: that you can get through. When I listen to other

865
00:50:21,488 --> 00:50:25,008
Speaker 2: stories and are you here, that people are in the

866
00:50:25,048 --> 00:50:27,848
Speaker 2: depths of despair, but they do, they do get through.

867
00:50:27,928 --> 00:50:31,488
Speaker 2: I remember the funeral director saying to me the day

868
00:50:31,528 --> 00:50:35,248
Speaker 2: we buried Lars, I know what you're going through right now.

869
00:50:35,288 --> 00:50:38,167
Speaker 2: I had a similar experience. And you feel like this

870
00:50:38,248 --> 00:50:41,448
Speaker 2: can never ever get better. But it does. I promise

871
00:50:41,488 --> 00:50:45,528
Speaker 2: you it does. And I was a bit irritated. I thought,

872
00:50:45,608 --> 00:50:48,848
Speaker 2: you just don't know. You don't know how I love him.

873
00:50:49,128 --> 00:50:53,368
Speaker 2: I can't. But it did. It does get better eventually.

874
00:50:54,088 --> 00:50:57,808
Speaker 2: I still think of him every day, so many, I

875
00:50:57,808 --> 00:51:03,047
Speaker 2: mean decades now. I'm really glad I have that. I

876
00:51:03,128 --> 00:51:05,968
Speaker 2: used to be terrified of my own mortality, but I'm

877
00:51:06,008 --> 00:51:09,728
Speaker 2: not so much anymore. It's okay, it's okay. Everyone does it,

878
00:51:09,848 --> 00:51:14,128
Speaker 2: and it just yeah, I'd like to be here for

879
00:51:14,208 --> 00:51:16,368
Speaker 2: as long as I can, but it's all right. And

880
00:51:16,408 --> 00:51:18,768
Speaker 2: if there's nothing after this, I'm fine with that too.

881
00:51:19,248 --> 00:51:21,888
Speaker 2: The most important thing for me going forward is that

882
00:51:22,048 --> 00:51:26,008
Speaker 2: my children will be okay. And also the way I

883
00:51:26,048 --> 00:51:29,248
Speaker 2: know Lars lives fond in me. I hear him laugh

884
00:51:29,408 --> 00:51:31,808
Speaker 2: all the time at certain situations, and I know he

885
00:51:31,848 --> 00:51:35,247
Speaker 2: would find that's so funny. He had a great sense

886
00:51:35,288 --> 00:51:39,647
Speaker 2: of humor. He was very witty, very quick, and yeah,

887
00:51:39,728 --> 00:51:42,408
Speaker 2: I just I love that he's living through me in

888
00:51:42,448 --> 00:51:46,368
Speaker 2: that way. And I'll even say to my son sometimes, oh,

889
00:51:46,648 --> 00:51:48,888
Speaker 2: Lars would have laughed so much, or I'll tell him

890
00:51:48,928 --> 00:51:51,368
Speaker 2: stories that Lars told me that are really funny, you know,

891
00:51:51,408 --> 00:51:52,768
Speaker 2: and it's like, that's how we live on.

892
00:52:11,248 --> 00:52:13,928
Speaker 1: Everyone has an ex It's a Minti Media production and

893
00:52:14,048 --> 00:52:16,888
Speaker 1: proudly part of the Mum and mea Network. This interview

894
00:52:17,008 --> 00:52:20,408
Speaker 1: was conducted and episode narrated by me Georgia Love and

895
00:52:20,448 --> 00:52:23,087
Speaker 1: written and produced by Linda Scott. If you have a

896
00:52:23,088 --> 00:52:26,127
Speaker 1: story you'd like to share, email podcast at momamea dot

897
00:52:26,168 --> 00:52:28,768
Speaker 1: com dot You. You can support us by following the

898
00:52:28,808 --> 00:52:31,248
Speaker 1: show in your favorite podcast app and leaving a five

899
00:52:31,328 --> 00:52:34,808
Speaker 1: star review. We'll see you for the next episode.