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Speaker 1: You're listening to I'm MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Have you decided what you want for your birthday?

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Speaker 1: Oh? I've told Brent what I want and I hope

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Speaker 1: he was paying attention. Yeah, yeah, because I want my

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Speaker 1: little Bunning's glass greenhouse thing. Jesus crash this beautiful necklace.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, god no, I think it's better to have

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Speaker 3: those lists because my mom.

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Speaker 1: I used to be like nearly my whole life until

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Speaker 1: the last few years. I'm like a surprise me person

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Speaker 1: because I love surprises, like I genuinely do. But it's

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Speaker 1: just twenty years of missus twenty years.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just like it's time to just ask.

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Speaker 1: It's time exactly. He's a lovely man that this is

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Speaker 1: not his strength. Yes, yeah, time to be specific, you know,

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Speaker 1: save us all a little bit of aggs, send some cash. Hello,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to MoMA Mia out Loud. It's what women

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Speaker 1: are actually talking about on Friday, the twelfth of December.

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Speaker 2: I'm Wayne right, I'm m vern Em and I'm Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 1: And here's what made our agenda for today. It's been

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Speaker 1: a dilemma for the ages. Is a straight man cheating

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Speaker 1: if he likes other women's posts on Instagram. Yes, Thankfully,

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Speaker 1: for those of us who are a little bit more

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Speaker 1: conflicted than them, a court has cleared this up.

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Speaker 5: It is also social season, and we are well overdue

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Speaker 5: for an Ediica guide where we tell you exactly how

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Speaker 5: to behave because we're well equipped.

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Speaker 3: And if you're struggling to make a decision at the moment,

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Speaker 3: ask yourself, is it a hat, a haircut, or a tattoo.

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Speaker 3: We stumbled across a decision framework that promises to change

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Speaker 3: your life.

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Speaker 1: But first, as I mentioned, there has often been debate

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Speaker 1: about whether or not it's okay to like other people's

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Speaker 1: posts on social media. So if you're a straight man

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Speaker 1: in a relationship with a woman, is it okay for

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Speaker 1: you to like other women's posts? Now? I have always

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Speaker 1: said yes, I don't own your life likes, but you

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Speaker 1: m say absolutely not. Give me some context here about it.

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Speaker 5: Firstly, if it's going to be a like that's going

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Speaker 5: to embarrass me as your girlfriend, you can't be liking

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Speaker 5: that photo.

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Speaker 1: What kind of light would embarrass you?

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Speaker 5: A photo of a model who doesn't even know you exist,

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Speaker 5: and you're constantly liking every single photo she posts, She's

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Speaker 5: going to see.

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Speaker 1: It so like Siddy Sweeney, let's say official account. Presumably

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Speaker 1: she posts something she gets a million likes when she posts.

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Speaker 1: If your significant other is one of the people who

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Speaker 1: likes that, you don't like that, yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a bit embarrassing.

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Speaker 1: It's embarrassing.

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Speaker 5: I actually have a story here, and I can't believe

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Speaker 5: I witnessed this firsthand. I was dating a guy and

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Speaker 5: he was looking at a photo from Selena Gomez and

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Speaker 5: it was a carousel, and it was like, the first

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Speaker 5: one was like her looking really really sexy, and he

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Speaker 5: liked it, and the second one was her with Benny Blanco,

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Speaker 5: and then he like.

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Speaker 1: A witness that I was dating here. I think this

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Speaker 1: lovely deluded gentleman thought that Selena might be like, I'm

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Speaker 1: looking through the lists of all the names. She's the

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Speaker 1: most followed person. I'm looking through the lists of all

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Speaker 1: the names to decide who I might go on a

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Speaker 1: random date with.

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Speaker 3: You, and like, she doesn't need your like, whereas if

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Speaker 3: your partner is liking a photo of Dame Judy dench

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Speaker 3: yeplay on.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this is confusing. So it's lucky that some courts

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Speaker 1: around the world have ruled on this. You might have

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Speaker 1: seen some headlines around the place that in the country Turkia,

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Speaker 1: which is in like southeast Europe, a divorce court has

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Speaker 1: just ruled that a husband's interacting with other women on

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Speaker 1: social media platforms did constitute cheating, and it's being reported

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Speaker 1: around the world this particular case as a kind of

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Speaker 1: world first proof that Instagram liking is cheating. Now, obviously

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Speaker 1: there's a lot more going on here, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: more going on in this relationship. There's a lot more

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Speaker 1: going on in this this particular divorce case, but it

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Speaker 1: is the first time that the court held up an

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Speaker 1: action that said social media, including likes on photos of

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Speaker 1: the opposite sex, can be interpreted as conduct undermining trust

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Speaker 1: and dignity in a marriage. Such online behavior, the court said,

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Speaker 1: may justify divorce when it causes emotional harm and erodes

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Speaker 1: the foundation of the relationship. And in that particular case,

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Speaker 1: when the woman was saying, part of why I'm divorcing

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Speaker 1: this dude, is he continually doing that liking connecting with

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Speaker 1: women on Instagram. I don't like it was one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons why the court ruled in her favor. So

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Speaker 1: people are seeing this. It's not exactly as simplistic as this,

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Speaker 1: of course, but they're saying this is the first time

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Speaker 1: that liking an Instagram post has contributed to a cheating

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Speaker 1: not prosecution. What's the word well inclaim.

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Speaker 3: In Australia we have no fault divorce. Yeah, so if

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Speaker 3: you and your partner get divorced, no one needs to

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Speaker 3: prove that it was someone else is fault, right, whereas

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Speaker 3: in other places in the world you do prove fault.

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Speaker 3: And this is a way of going he was at

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Speaker 3: fault because he was liking.

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Speaker 1: And that thought you might be getting better, more favorable

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Speaker 1: divorce settlement exactly.

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Speaker 3: And what I want in court is I need that

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Speaker 3: picture displayed.

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Speaker 2: I need it displayed.

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Speaker 3: I need us to prosecute the nuance of that photo.

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Speaker 3: Is it a graduation photo of an ex where we're

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Speaker 3: just encouraging her future endeavors clap clap, look at you go?

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Speaker 1: Or is that allowed by the way I think we're

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Speaker 1: allowed to do that.

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Speaker 2: I think so.

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Speaker 3: Whereas if it is a your ex is taken up

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Speaker 3: bikini modeling and there's eleven photos in a carousel and

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Speaker 3: he's like con zooming and he's going on the Instagram

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Speaker 3: stories fire emojing exactly, and maybe a DM going it

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Speaker 3: looks like you're well, that crossing a line and I

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Speaker 3: need a judge to say that, like I need a

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Speaker 3: judge to say it, and then a ward.

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Speaker 5: And I think it's also the where in the claim

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Speaker 5: it says that he was constantly doing that, so I

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Speaker 5: can imagine there would have been a conversation of her going,

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Speaker 5: I don't like when you do this, and he does it,

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Speaker 5: And you can tell exactly how much they do it

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Speaker 5: by their Instagram explore page. If you go onto someone's

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Speaker 5: Instagram explore page, and I assume with this person here,

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Speaker 5: his Instagram explore page is just all these.

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Speaker 1: Women in bikinis. They are like, you have a tendency.

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Speaker 3: To like a lot, whereas mine is all left one drivers,

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Speaker 3: which is me in my personal business.

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Speaker 1: But this is why this is murky, right Jesse, Like

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Speaker 1: this particular divorce, ACiE, we don't know the particulars here,

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Speaker 1: but like, in general, is it illegal for your partner

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Speaker 1: to like looking at pictures of women and bikinis on Instagram?

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Speaker 2: You heard the court It is a little bit legal.

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Speaker 3: It is, And in fact, I would like I would

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Speaker 3: like to have their eyes to add in another piece

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Speaker 3: of legislation that I think is missing, okay, which is

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Speaker 3: my mum in law does still like and I've spoken

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Speaker 3: about this before, photos of Luca's X and I just

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Speaker 3: it's time.

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Speaker 1: To stop it.

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Speaker 3: She's trolling you, She's trolling me, And it's like.

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Speaker 1: Is Luca allowed to like those photos? Look?

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Speaker 3: When I brought it up on this podcast a year ago,

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Speaker 3: it does appear he has stopped. Mother in law was

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Speaker 3: a different level though, because I feel as though she's

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Speaker 3: too encouraging.

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Speaker 1: Do you think she's also in the DMS going how

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Speaker 1: are you doing?

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Speaker 2: We miss you? We miss you in this family?

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Speaker 3: And I think that when there's a court, when Luca

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Speaker 3: and I go to court over something, I'm going to

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Speaker 3: be bringing that up. This lady has been too encouraging

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Speaker 3: to the exes, and I don't appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: It feels pointed.

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Speaker 5: So social season is amongst us, which means that it's

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Speaker 5: time where people on the internet tell other people on

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Speaker 5: the internet how to behave Yes.

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Speaker 1: Us included Yes.

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Speaker 5: A subject writer named Hannah Park published a piece titled

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Speaker 5: modern day social Etiquette you should live.

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Speaker 1: And die by.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 5: This is not like a fancy, fancy etiquette guide where

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Speaker 5: you're making like a five course meal. This is for

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Speaker 5: people who just happen to attend things during the social season.

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Speaker 2: And get easily confused.

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Speaker 5: And we've done a few of these for our subscriber

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Speaker 5: out Louders.

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Speaker 3: In fact, we have one subscriber episode coming up specifically

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Speaker 3: about Christmas, New Year and the holiday season. But then

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Speaker 3: this one I just found during like a very busy

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Speaker 3: social period. I just need some guidance. And there are

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Speaker 3: a few things on there that I'm doing that I

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Speaker 3: didn't realize.

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Speaker 5: We're rude, Okay, can I read out some Yes, always

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Speaker 5: pour someone else's water or wine before your own.

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Speaker 1: This is a lesson that Jesse has learned.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd be explicitly told by someone I used to

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Speaker 3: work with, and I think of her every time I

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Speaker 3: do it.

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Speaker 1: Now. I didn't know we had to do that. Of

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Speaker 1: course you have to do that, oh my god, because

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Speaker 1: sometime sometimes.

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Speaker 5: They're quite heavy, so you know when you pick it up,

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Speaker 5: and I can't be doing this.

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Speaker 1: Before God, or at least you offer.

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Speaker 2: You have to offer an intolerance to water, and you

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Speaker 2: don't want.

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Speaker 1: To, you don't want to present them. It tastes like spin.

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Speaker 2: No, that's why you should always just give you.

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Speaker 1: So if you go like this and they go you up,

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Speaker 1: that's fine. Don't lick your fingers. Oh, I always like

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Speaker 1: tricky because the thing like finger food is tricky. You know,

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Speaker 1: like if you're at a fancy event and somebody is

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Speaker 1: bringing around finger food, you know how they always offer

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Speaker 1: you a CANape and a napkin.

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Speaker 2: Do you call it a CANape?

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Speaker 1: I call it a cap It's called a can I

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Speaker 1: think I'm just being stupid.

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Speaker 4: Cannot pey and a napkin.

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Speaker 1: But you've got a glass in hand, so you never

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Speaker 1: take the napkin because then you're in a pickle, a pickle.

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Speaker 1: Then you don't know what what to do, so you eat,

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Speaker 1: and then you've got to lick your fingers or wipe

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Speaker 1: a mod dress?

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Speaker 2: You do you got a fancy dress.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to do that. Some people who lick

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Speaker 1: their fingers make it quite audible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know what you may.

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Speaker 3: I also think over the way kend I was indulging

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Speaker 3: in a cheesel, which I hadn't had. No, while you

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Speaker 3: can't eat a cheesel without looking, licking.

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Speaker 1: Fingers is the best bit.

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Speaker 3: It's the best bit because you've got the salt on it. Like,

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Speaker 3: what am I meant to do with my cheesel?

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Speaker 1: You know what you do? You roll it between.

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Speaker 5: And I like, sprinkle it into your mouth.

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Speaker 4: I'm really glad that.

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Speaker 1: We've nailed the cheesel etiquette in this holiday guide. Early on.

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Speaker 1: That is the weirdest shit I've ever heard. It's so good.

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Speaker 4: It's extra flavor. It's like an extra back.

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Speaker 5: Okay, if you know the name of a bird or

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Speaker 5: plant while walking outside with friend, share it with the group.

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Speaker 1: Such nonsense.

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Speaker 4: I just disagree, like, I rather not. I rather walk

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Speaker 4: to silence.

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Speaker 1: You know that. I will totally do that, Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: you know how I am with my nature and even

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Speaker 1: I know that's annoying when people come to stay with

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Speaker 1: us where we live down the coast and walk around,

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Speaker 1: I go, look at that, that's a great heron.

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Speaker 4: Look at that.

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Speaker 2: I don't care.

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Speaker 1: That's a plover. Look at that it's a Pelican. Nobody

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Speaker 1: wants They all look like the same bird. Nobody wants that.

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Speaker 1: So I just have to say it inside my head, like, yes, Holly,

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Speaker 1: you do know things, Okay.

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Speaker 5: When someone tells a story, ask a follow up question

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Speaker 5: before telling your own.

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Speaker 2: I loved this.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a really simple way to make sure

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Speaker 3: that you don't get into that dynamic of both of

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Speaker 3: you just monologuing or whatever. And sometimes I go, you know,

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Speaker 3: you'll find yourself midway through a conversation and go I've

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Speaker 3: been talking too much, and you try and diffuse it.

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Speaker 2: I like that as just like, yeah, always ask something

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Speaker 2: else or I just wait for your.

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Speaker 5: T If you're telling a story and you can tell

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Speaker 5: they just want to say something, yeah what they think

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Speaker 5: is better.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is very nice, polite.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Light.

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Speaker 5: If you're telling a story and then someone else starts

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Speaker 5: telling their story, don't look at your phone.

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Speaker 1: Well, if you're one up in my story, I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at my phone.

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Speaker 2: Who I see this all the time. I see this

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Speaker 2: all the time.

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Speaker 3: In a group setting, someone will speak and then when

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Speaker 3: they're done speaking and someone else starts speaking.

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Speaker 2: And often it'll be one person.

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Speaker 3: It could be the quieter person at the table, could

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Speaker 3: be someone who said less, I see someone touch the

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Speaker 3: and I think that is the root of single pin.

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Speaker 1: Okay, where should the phone be?

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Speaker 3: Never within eyesight, not on the table or anything, unless

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Speaker 3: you are my obstecution.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe a parent with the baby at home with

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Speaker 1: a babysitter. Yeah, but then these days we've often got watches.

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Speaker 3: Vibrate for that, aren't we Aren't we paying the babysitter

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Speaker 3: to sort it.

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Speaker 2: I just feel like that's none of your business.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe a single girl, if you have a better lineup, yeah, true, true, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but if you can check that.

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Speaker 3: That's why phone belongs in pocket. When you go do

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Speaker 3: a way, check your phone. But I don't think we

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Speaker 3: are doing it within because when one person pulls their

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Speaker 3: phone out, everything's ruined. Everyone's checking their phone and we've

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Speaker 3: just broken the like social.

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Speaker 5: Code its bond offer to help old people walk up

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Speaker 5: the stairs or across the streets.

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Speaker 1: Well, of course, duh. But just be careful what your

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Speaker 1: boundary of old people.

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Speaker 3: Is, because Holly hates it when I offer. When I

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Speaker 3: say to her, do you need help in the lift?

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Speaker 1: You can really poised at the social event if you

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Speaker 1: get that wrong.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

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Speaker 5: Okay, I understand the difference between nice questions versus nosy questions.

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Speaker 1: This is very tricky. I don't think I know what

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Speaker 1: this is.

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Speaker 3: So apparently it's nosy and rude to ask what someone

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Speaker 3: does for living, or like how's work going?

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Speaker 2: Or something to do?

294
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Speaker 1: With work.

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Speaker 3: The general consensus, and what this article said was that

296
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Speaker 3: that's a rude question and you have to get more creative.

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Speaker 1: That's that's the first thing I asked me too. So

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Speaker 1: this is interesting because I'm finding that I've got less

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Speaker 1: and less tolerance for small talk as I get older.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's the hormones. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it's the age or what it is. But I used

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Speaker 1: to be quite a fan of small talk. I remember

303
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Speaker 1: years ago coaching you Jesse on office small talk, because

304
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Speaker 1: I was like, it's important, it's the social code. You

305
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Speaker 1: just how is your weekend fine? How was your weekend fine?

306
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Speaker 1: But my tolerance for it is dropping. And do you

307
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Speaker 1: remember there was an article in The Guardian a while

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Speaker 1: ago from a woman who even up small talk. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And this was interesting because she had some suggestions, because

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Speaker 1: often the suggestions for this are too intense, things like

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Speaker 1: what's bringing you joy today? Like I don't want a

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Speaker 1: stranger to ask me that, But she said that was.

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Speaker 2: Exactly I find that question.

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Speaker 1: This article was written by Claire Easton, was in the Guardian.

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Speaker 1: She's a writer and she had to go to like

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Speaker 1: a sort of event where she didn't know very many

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Speaker 1: people that normally would be small talk, but she'd sworn

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Speaker 1: off it. The first person I spoke to at the

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Speaker 1: show as a freelance photographer, what's your star side? I asked, Oh,

320
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Speaker 1: I feel like I have to know about star signs

321
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Speaker 1: I believe, looked pleasantly surprised, and then answered Aquarius and

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Speaker 1: we spoke comfortably for ten minutes. The next person I encountered,

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Speaker 1: I asked, what was your art teacher at school? Like?

324
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Speaker 1: By the end of the evening I had several fun

325
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Speaker 1: and enjoyable conversations. My rules were simple without being rude.

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00:14:57,674 --> 00:15:00,794
Speaker 1: I would quickly deflect all questions about well being, where

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Speaker 1: they're transport, or children's academic achievements, and offer instead something

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Speaker 1: I found genuinely interesting. When Barista asks, how are you

329
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Speaker 1: enjoying the sun? I pivoted to I like spring, but

330
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Speaker 1: autumn is my favorite season. What's yours? What do we

331
00:15:14,074 --> 00:15:17,794
Speaker 1: think about this? What do we think about more interesting questions?

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Speaker 3: I agree that we can get to more interesting places.

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Speaker 2: I think you can sound like you're forcing it a bit.

334
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Speaker 1: You can't row a dog in an interesting question.

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Speaker 3: The one that I like is because I will see

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Speaker 3: a lot of people over this period where, to be

337
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Speaker 3: completely honest, I've forgotten what they do for work. I'm

338
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Speaker 3: not sure if they're working at the moment. Yep, I

339
00:15:35,794 --> 00:15:38,074
Speaker 3: don't know if they're retired. I don't like I just

340
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Speaker 3: haven't been keeping up. And so what you're meant to

341
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Speaker 3: say is what's been keeping you busy?

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Speaker 2: And I quite like.

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Speaker 3: That, Hey, uncle, blah, what's been keeping you busy? And

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Speaker 3: then at least it's open, and then you can kind

345
00:15:49,714 --> 00:15:52,354
Speaker 3: of follow them there rather than making any assumptions about

346
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Speaker 3: what their life looks like at the moment.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I actually like that. I have one uncle who

348
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Speaker 5: known since I was born. Every single year at Christmas,

349
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Speaker 5: he always asks me where do I work?

350
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Speaker 1: And I've only worked at one place.

351
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Speaker 2: Yeah, every single year.

352
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Speaker 3: I was thirty before one uncle stopped saying how's boost juice?

353
00:16:12,474 --> 00:16:13,314
Speaker 2: Fifteen years.

354
00:16:13,514 --> 00:16:17,874
Speaker 1: But I still enjoy This is the problem with small talk, right,

355
00:16:17,954 --> 00:16:20,314
Speaker 1: is that no one's really listening, no one really cares,

356
00:16:20,434 --> 00:16:23,514
Speaker 1: no one's going to remember. Obviously, I find it awkward

357
00:16:23,514 --> 00:16:25,634
Speaker 1: to jump into something deep with people you don't know

358
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Speaker 1: very well. I don't think you should necessarily do that.

359
00:16:27,674 --> 00:16:32,034
Speaker 1: But something about the world, something about the day that's

360
00:16:32,154 --> 00:16:34,034
Speaker 1: not you know, just how are you busy? How are

361
00:16:34,114 --> 00:16:36,114
Speaker 1: you busy? Or you know, like, I don't know. I

362
00:16:36,194 --> 00:16:37,714
Speaker 1: just think we've got to be better than that. And

363
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Speaker 1: I haven't quite cracked it.

364
00:16:39,114 --> 00:16:41,514
Speaker 3: But I think sometimes it's stepping stones, right, And then

365
00:16:41,554 --> 00:16:45,234
Speaker 3: you come across something really interesting, but you can't force it,

366
00:16:45,234 --> 00:16:46,994
Speaker 3: and you also don't want to sound like you're prying,

367
00:16:47,074 --> 00:16:48,994
Speaker 3: which I guess is the point about being nosy. There

368
00:16:48,994 --> 00:16:51,714
Speaker 3: are some people who are going into this season with

369
00:16:51,834 --> 00:16:54,474
Speaker 3: things they really don't want to talk about, well with bruises,

370
00:16:54,514 --> 00:16:55,554
Speaker 3: they don't want pressed.

371
00:16:55,754 --> 00:16:58,954
Speaker 1: If you're emotionally intelligent, you can tell that. So if

372
00:16:58,994 --> 00:17:01,034
Speaker 1: I say to you, how are you and your eyes

373
00:17:01,074 --> 00:17:04,633
Speaker 1: filled with I'm going to change your subject ye pretty fast.

374
00:17:05,634 --> 00:17:07,594
Speaker 1: I like saying, what have you been watching lately?

375
00:17:08,154 --> 00:17:08,634
Speaker 6: Yeah?

376
00:17:08,793 --> 00:17:11,154
Speaker 3: No, no, I do. I do like that. I do

377
00:17:11,274 --> 00:17:14,954
Speaker 3: like everyone reads yeah, but everyone watches something.

378
00:17:15,114 --> 00:17:16,034
Speaker 2: It's very true.

379
00:17:16,554 --> 00:17:18,994
Speaker 1: We want to jump into though, Hi, uncle Bob, what

380
00:17:19,034 --> 00:17:22,514
Speaker 1: have you been watching lately? That over watch your.

381
00:17:22,394 --> 00:17:25,154
Speaker 5: Start signed Bob, And then like Aquarius, I'm like, I

382
00:17:25,154 --> 00:17:26,033
Speaker 5: don't know anything.

383
00:17:28,314 --> 00:17:30,714
Speaker 4: Anything about that, and now we're stuck.

384
00:17:31,034 --> 00:17:31,954
Speaker 1: And now it was stuck.

385
00:17:32,154 --> 00:17:34,874
Speaker 3: There was one that I realized I've been doing that

386
00:17:34,954 --> 00:17:37,674
Speaker 3: I didn't know was rude. But I will stop, which

387
00:17:37,754 --> 00:17:40,513
Speaker 3: is apparently you've got to stop walking into places, whether

388
00:17:40,554 --> 00:17:43,994
Speaker 3: that is a restaurant, a venue, a home and ask

389
00:17:44,074 --> 00:17:44,794
Speaker 3: for a phone charge.

390
00:17:46,474 --> 00:17:49,714
Speaker 2: That apparently is very rude, rude. I've done it at

391
00:17:49,754 --> 00:17:50,273
Speaker 2: the gym.

392
00:17:50,474 --> 00:17:53,474
Speaker 3: I've done it at like I am constantly asking strangers

393
00:17:53,514 --> 00:17:55,594
Speaker 3: to charge my phone and it's like, I need to

394
00:17:55,674 --> 00:17:58,314
Speaker 3: sort out the battery life on my phone.

395
00:17:58,634 --> 00:17:59,513
Speaker 2: That's what I need.

396
00:17:59,634 --> 00:18:01,754
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then you have to remember to charge the portable.

397
00:18:01,834 --> 00:18:04,033
Speaker 1: I never do. People bought me those before, and I'm like,

398
00:18:04,154 --> 00:18:06,793
Speaker 1: you are assuming that I have ever gott to charge

399
00:18:06,834 --> 00:18:09,714
Speaker 1: this if I can't charge my phone, But it's correct.

400
00:18:09,714 --> 00:18:11,314
Speaker 1: I do like that one in here where the etiquette

401
00:18:11,354 --> 00:18:14,634
Speaker 1: is like don't leave the house with uncharged devices. Brent

402
00:18:14,714 --> 00:18:17,394
Speaker 1: never has this device charged. He's always like, I'm nearly

403
00:18:17,394 --> 00:18:17,954
Speaker 1: out of juice.

404
00:18:17,994 --> 00:18:28,514
Speaker 6: He says, day, can't charge your phone, Come on now.

405
00:18:28,954 --> 00:18:31,914
Speaker 3: I also liked if you find yourself in an interaction

406
00:18:31,954 --> 00:18:34,994
Speaker 3: where someone is cleaning, join them in cleaning. I went

407
00:18:35,034 --> 00:18:36,593
Speaker 3: through all the comments on this and there were just

408
00:18:36,634 --> 00:18:39,954
Speaker 3: really good basic ones. And you often do see You'll

409
00:18:39,994 --> 00:18:41,594
Speaker 3: be in a situation where a woman is in the

410
00:18:41,674 --> 00:18:43,954
Speaker 3: kitchen cleaning dishes, and someone will talk at her.

411
00:18:44,074 --> 00:18:48,714
Speaker 5: It might be me and holding a glass of wine

412
00:18:49,554 --> 00:18:51,114
Speaker 5: trying to scrub around the elbow.

413
00:18:51,274 --> 00:18:52,874
Speaker 2: Yeah, mum, do you know where the rest of the

414
00:18:52,914 --> 00:18:55,593
Speaker 2: wine is? And Mum's just like sweating and stuff, and

415
00:18:55,634 --> 00:18:58,234
Speaker 2: it's like you, no, you should probably pick up a teacher.

416
00:18:58,274 --> 00:18:59,994
Speaker 1: I wonder if there's a line in that, out louders,

417
00:18:59,994 --> 00:19:02,194
Speaker 1: We'll have to tell us, because very good rule of thumb.

418
00:19:02,234 --> 00:19:03,674
Speaker 1: If you're at someone's house and they're hosting you and

419
00:19:03,674 --> 00:19:06,914
Speaker 1: there cleaning, always jumping off for help, some people do

420
00:19:06,954 --> 00:19:09,474
Speaker 1: not like you're doing that. Some people are get upset

421
00:19:09,674 --> 00:19:11,754
Speaker 1: about and then because also you're going to have come

422
00:19:11,794 --> 00:19:13,634
Speaker 1: with a lot of questions to that situation. Where does

423
00:19:13,674 --> 00:19:14,714
Speaker 1: this go? Where does that go?

424
00:19:15,234 --> 00:19:15,474
Speaker 6: Cloth?

425
00:19:15,474 --> 00:19:18,274
Speaker 1: Where's your glasses? Where's your both? Some people don't like that.

426
00:19:18,794 --> 00:19:21,274
Speaker 1: I like that. I'm like, go for your life, clean

427
00:19:21,314 --> 00:19:22,754
Speaker 1: as much as you like. I'm going to go sit

428
00:19:22,794 --> 00:19:24,513
Speaker 1: down with my wine and you're going to clean up

429
00:19:24,554 --> 00:19:27,154
Speaker 1: the kitchen. But I'd love to know what out loud,

430
00:19:27,154 --> 00:19:28,594
Speaker 1: I think the line is about that one.

431
00:19:28,874 --> 00:19:30,194
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, true, true.

432
00:19:30,394 --> 00:19:34,394
Speaker 3: I think it's like even get everything away, like collecting

433
00:19:34,434 --> 00:19:36,793
Speaker 3: things and putting them in the sink at least, is

434
00:19:36,834 --> 00:19:38,154
Speaker 3: like you've done some of the job.

435
00:19:39,274 --> 00:19:40,754
Speaker 4: Look like you're doing something.

436
00:19:40,474 --> 00:19:43,914
Speaker 3: Just fiddle, yeah, wipe a table, yeah, fiddle and even

437
00:19:44,074 --> 00:19:46,474
Speaker 3: put ttawel in left hand, right hand, left hand, right hand,

438
00:19:47,874 --> 00:19:49,593
Speaker 3: but just appear to be helping.

439
00:19:50,114 --> 00:19:51,914
Speaker 2: That's absolutely moving around.

440
00:19:52,234 --> 00:19:55,594
Speaker 3: I liked as well. Understand the purpose of a group chat.

441
00:19:55,714 --> 00:19:58,754
Speaker 3: It is not for logistics, it's not for disagreements. Those

442
00:19:58,794 --> 00:19:59,994
Speaker 3: should happen one on one.

443
00:20:00,154 --> 00:20:03,514
Speaker 1: This is genius. As we've talked about a few times,

444
00:20:03,554 --> 00:20:05,514
Speaker 1: I'm not as into group chats as everybody else because

445
00:20:05,514 --> 00:20:08,914
Speaker 1: I just find it overwhelming. And this is particularly what

446
00:20:08,994 --> 00:20:11,034
Speaker 1: I hate about them is where people are fighting about

447
00:20:11,074 --> 00:20:13,593
Speaker 1: things or where people are just saidlessly going is it

448
00:20:13,634 --> 00:20:14,794
Speaker 1: two or is it three?

449
00:20:15,434 --> 00:20:15,594
Speaker 3: Right?

450
00:20:16,314 --> 00:20:18,674
Speaker 1: Yeah, this isn't the place.

451
00:20:18,914 --> 00:20:21,394
Speaker 3: Okay, But how about we were speaking recently about what

452
00:20:21,474 --> 00:20:24,954
Speaker 3: dish you bring, and I have group chats that are

453
00:20:24,994 --> 00:20:27,513
Speaker 3: just like I'm bringing the salad, I'm bringing the rolls,

454
00:20:27,634 --> 00:20:30,553
Speaker 3: I'm bringing the bla. I prefer to be told what

455
00:20:30,634 --> 00:20:34,434
Speaker 3: to bring. Is that just a passive thing. I'll just

456
00:20:34,474 --> 00:20:37,114
Speaker 3: wait till the end, give me the shit thing. But like,

457
00:20:37,154 --> 00:20:38,754
Speaker 3: I'm not going to jump in when the group chat's

458
00:20:38,794 --> 00:20:41,513
Speaker 3: going off with everyone with their special things, because you

459
00:20:41,554 --> 00:20:44,714
Speaker 3: get fifty four messages and then you go, I don't know,

460
00:20:44,994 --> 00:20:45,874
Speaker 3: I don't know what's left?

461
00:20:45,954 --> 00:20:46,834
Speaker 2: Is someone writing this?

462
00:20:47,114 --> 00:20:47,354
Speaker 1: Yeah?

463
00:20:47,354 --> 00:20:49,714
Speaker 5: I think there needs to be an organizer. So yeah,

464
00:20:49,754 --> 00:20:51,834
Speaker 5: no what everyone's bringing, because one time I did go

465
00:20:51,874 --> 00:20:55,274
Speaker 5: to a Christmas thing and there were five salads, yeah,

466
00:20:55,394 --> 00:20:56,794
Speaker 5: and like three prawns.

467
00:20:57,074 --> 00:20:58,154
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was it.

468
00:20:58,794 --> 00:21:02,074
Speaker 3: Exactly allocate, allocate people's strengths.

469
00:21:02,314 --> 00:21:03,674
Speaker 2: I have one last etiquete question.

470
00:21:03,754 --> 00:21:06,194
Speaker 3: I wanted to ask, Oh, yes, because I saw this

471
00:21:06,234 --> 00:21:08,114
Speaker 3: in the comments and oh I didn't know this.

472
00:21:08,954 --> 00:21:10,114
Speaker 2: When you give someone.

473
00:21:09,874 --> 00:21:14,434
Speaker 3: A gift, you should always give them the gift receipt.

474
00:21:14,994 --> 00:21:18,793
Speaker 2: Do you do this no, so they can exchange it?

475
00:21:19,554 --> 00:21:22,674
Speaker 3: Do you think there's a price, because I decided that

476
00:21:23,234 --> 00:21:25,754
Speaker 3: if it's less than thirty bucks, I'm not giving them

477
00:21:25,794 --> 00:21:27,874
Speaker 3: the gift receipt, and if it's a child, I'm probably

478
00:21:27,954 --> 00:21:31,034
Speaker 3: not giving them the gift receipt. Right, But if I've

479
00:21:31,194 --> 00:21:34,994
Speaker 3: spent a decent amount of money on a family member

480
00:21:35,674 --> 00:21:38,354
Speaker 3: and there's a chance I need to exchange or it's

481
00:21:38,354 --> 00:21:40,674
Speaker 3: not quite right, what do we think?

482
00:21:41,074 --> 00:21:43,714
Speaker 1: That's really interesting? Because I think it's rude to give

483
00:21:43,754 --> 00:21:47,634
Speaker 1: the gift receipt really but maybe that's an individual thing.

484
00:21:47,554 --> 00:21:49,834
Speaker 3: Because a gift re seat doesn't say how much it was,

485
00:21:49,874 --> 00:21:50,994
Speaker 3: but it entitles you to go on.

486
00:21:51,194 --> 00:21:55,554
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe it depends, like if it's an item of clothing, yes, yeah,

487
00:21:55,594 --> 00:21:59,034
Speaker 1: because sizing is an issue. Okay, But otherwise I think

488
00:21:59,034 --> 00:22:01,273
Speaker 1: it's a bit rude because it kind of says, I

489
00:22:01,354 --> 00:22:04,154
Speaker 1: bought you this thing, but you might hate it. I

490
00:22:04,194 --> 00:22:06,833
Speaker 1: think we should be assuming that you're gonna like it.

491
00:22:07,114 --> 00:22:09,154
Speaker 5: I have been occasions where I've given a gift receipt

492
00:22:09,314 --> 00:22:13,114
Speaker 5: because I want them to enjoy the gift I'm giving,

493
00:22:13,154 --> 00:22:14,714
Speaker 5: but I don't give it to them.

494
00:22:14,594 --> 00:22:16,554
Speaker 1: Straight like that. I just say I have the receipt.

495
00:22:16,594 --> 00:22:19,634
Speaker 1: If you do want something else, offer from this website.

496
00:22:20,114 --> 00:22:24,034
Speaker 3: I remember getting a few books for Christmas and there

497
00:22:24,074 --> 00:22:25,994
Speaker 3: was a gift recept accompanied, and I thought that was

498
00:22:26,034 --> 00:22:27,354
Speaker 3: a good case.

499
00:22:27,194 --> 00:22:28,554
Speaker 1: Because you might have had some of those.

500
00:22:28,794 --> 00:22:30,874
Speaker 3: I might have had them, I might have read them,

501
00:22:30,914 --> 00:22:32,834
Speaker 3: I might have whatever, And that's a really easy thing

502
00:22:32,874 --> 00:22:35,074
Speaker 3: to go and exchange or whatever.

503
00:22:35,154 --> 00:22:37,394
Speaker 1: I think it's really funny. I always think that's about

504
00:22:37,474 --> 00:22:41,234
Speaker 1: gifts when it's Christmas, is that part of giving a

505
00:22:41,274 --> 00:22:44,714
Speaker 1: gift is that it's supposed to be somebody else's vision

506
00:22:44,754 --> 00:22:48,914
Speaker 1: of you, right, Like, it's not just about the thing itself.

507
00:22:48,954 --> 00:22:51,074
Speaker 1: Otherwise we just all give each other money. And obviously

508
00:22:51,114 --> 00:22:53,594
Speaker 1: you do give people money, like teenagers just want money

509
00:22:53,674 --> 00:22:56,513
Speaker 1: or things. But if you've gone to the trouble of

510
00:22:56,594 --> 00:23:00,194
Speaker 1: choosing a thing for a person, I think it's a

511
00:23:00,234 --> 00:23:03,474
Speaker 1: bit transactional to always just be like, oh, you could

512
00:23:03,514 --> 00:23:05,674
Speaker 1: just have the one hundred dollars, you know what I mean? Yeah,

513
00:23:05,794 --> 00:23:09,114
Speaker 1: I know, because an ideal world you've chosen and that

514
00:23:09,154 --> 00:23:12,033
Speaker 1: person should at least pretend that they like it, Like

515
00:23:12,114 --> 00:23:13,994
Speaker 1: if it doesn't fit or if you've already got it

516
00:23:14,154 --> 00:23:15,554
Speaker 1: or anything like that, then sure.

517
00:23:15,634 --> 00:23:20,154
Speaker 5: But like, but something very personal like jewelry given books,

518
00:23:20,194 --> 00:23:22,234
Speaker 5: like I would find that's like such a personal gift.

519
00:23:22,274 --> 00:23:24,313
Speaker 1: But if I brought you a necklace, right and you

520
00:23:24,394 --> 00:23:26,353
Speaker 1: hated it and so you just went and swapped it

521
00:23:26,394 --> 00:23:27,714
Speaker 1: for a hat.

522
00:23:28,914 --> 00:23:30,434
Speaker 4: Yeah, it sounds likely.

523
00:23:32,354 --> 00:23:36,834
Speaker 1: Just wasteful, a bit like, well I didn't buy you

524
00:23:36,874 --> 00:23:38,194
Speaker 1: that at all, do you know what I mean?

525
00:23:38,954 --> 00:23:41,033
Speaker 2: But it's more about you.

526
00:23:40,914 --> 00:23:42,793
Speaker 1: Than then you'd be like, where's that necklace and be

527
00:23:42,794 --> 00:23:43,674
Speaker 1: like a home, would.

528
00:23:43,514 --> 00:23:44,354
Speaker 4: You like my new hat?

529
00:23:46,314 --> 00:23:46,434
Speaker 2: Hi?

530
00:23:46,674 --> 00:23:48,793
Speaker 3: I'm going to put a pole in the out Louders

531
00:23:48,794 --> 00:23:52,314
Speaker 3: Facebook group about whether we think it is polite etiquette

532
00:23:52,394 --> 00:23:54,674
Speaker 3: to include a gift receipt, because that is.

533
00:23:54,634 --> 00:23:57,114
Speaker 2: Something I cannot quite decide.

534
00:23:57,274 --> 00:24:00,474
Speaker 3: Out louders in a moment, is the decision you're currently

535
00:24:00,514 --> 00:24:13,274
Speaker 3: facing a hat, a haircut, or a tattoo we discuss.

536
00:24:14,034 --> 00:24:14,593
Speaker 2: Out louders.

537
00:24:14,594 --> 00:24:17,354
Speaker 3: We've got a listener dilemma, and we need your collective

538
00:24:17,394 --> 00:24:20,674
Speaker 3: wisdom to help us and our partners UI solve it.

539
00:24:20,794 --> 00:24:21,154
Speaker 2: Please.

540
00:24:21,634 --> 00:24:25,434
Speaker 3: Here is the problem. From an out louder. I have

541
00:24:25,514 --> 00:24:28,394
Speaker 3: a work and family dilemma. I work with my mother

542
00:24:28,474 --> 00:24:30,794
Speaker 3: in law and we get along fine, except her perfume.

543
00:24:30,834 --> 00:24:32,553
Speaker 3: It gives me a headache on the good days and

544
00:24:32,674 --> 00:24:35,674
Speaker 3: a full migraine on the worst days. I've asked her

545
00:24:35,714 --> 00:24:38,594
Speaker 3: repeatedly not to wear perfume to work, and have told

546
00:24:38,634 --> 00:24:41,074
Speaker 3: her when I've had to go home with centrigered migraines,

547
00:24:41,434 --> 00:24:43,914
Speaker 3: but she still wears it every day and it causes

548
00:24:43,954 --> 00:24:46,754
Speaker 3: me pain. Please help me find a way to get.

549
00:24:46,554 --> 00:24:51,073
Speaker 2: Her to stop once and for all. The question is

550
00:24:51,394 --> 00:24:52,394
Speaker 2: what do you do next?

551
00:24:52,394 --> 00:24:54,194
Speaker 1: You can tell I could barely wait to jump in

552
00:24:54,234 --> 00:24:57,034
Speaker 1: on this because this is a meedy one. Yeah, Because

553
00:24:57,074 --> 00:25:00,754
Speaker 1: the thing is, is this a passag maneuver? Because if

554
00:25:00,754 --> 00:25:03,754
Speaker 1: she knows it's giving her daughter and Laura, ifn you're

555
00:25:03,754 --> 00:25:06,914
Speaker 1: an expert in this particular Jesse, she knows it's giving

556
00:25:06,914 --> 00:25:09,474
Speaker 1: her order Laura headache. Or do you think that maybe

557
00:25:09,474 --> 00:25:11,874
Speaker 1: she doesn't believe it? You know how, there's a sort

558
00:25:11,914 --> 00:25:17,354
Speaker 1: of sometimes that oh, such a snowflake with your eye

559
00:25:17,394 --> 00:25:20,114
Speaker 1: roll migrains, like you know what I mean? That kind

560
00:25:20,114 --> 00:25:21,634
Speaker 1: of vibe perfume can be.

561
00:25:21,874 --> 00:25:23,394
Speaker 2: It's a very personal firing.

562
00:25:23,714 --> 00:25:25,394
Speaker 1: Some people feel undressed without it.

563
00:25:25,514 --> 00:25:28,714
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and you can wear it for years and years.

564
00:25:28,714 --> 00:25:31,394
Speaker 3: Like it's a big thing to ask someone with someone

565
00:25:31,434 --> 00:25:33,714
Speaker 3: not to wear it, Like I understand that, and it's

566
00:25:33,714 --> 00:25:37,553
Speaker 3: an awkward thing to broach. I would say something along

567
00:25:37,674 --> 00:25:38,594
Speaker 3: the lines of.

568
00:25:39,114 --> 00:25:41,474
Speaker 2: I think I might be allergic to your perfume. How

569
00:25:41,674 --> 00:25:42,513
Speaker 2: annoying is that?

570
00:25:42,914 --> 00:25:44,553
Speaker 3: And I would just kind of put it on me

571
00:25:45,274 --> 00:25:48,394
Speaker 3: and go like, I know that's really annoying, but I'm

572
00:25:48,394 --> 00:25:51,313
Speaker 3: having this like allergic reaction, Like I would put it

573
00:25:51,354 --> 00:25:55,114
Speaker 3: in that framework rather than kind of suggest I wonder

574
00:25:55,154 --> 00:25:56,714
Speaker 3: if she's been too subtle about it.

575
00:25:56,874 --> 00:26:00,513
Speaker 1: Maybe you know how some people are allergic to artificial sense,

576
00:26:00,554 --> 00:26:04,354
Speaker 1: but they're not allergic to natural sense. What if you

577
00:26:04,554 --> 00:26:07,674
Speaker 1: found out a scent that you're not allergic to, and

578
00:26:07,714 --> 00:26:09,354
Speaker 1: you bought your mother in law a present of that

579
00:26:09,354 --> 00:26:12,194
Speaker 1: perfect with a gift receipt. Yep, yep, yeah, with a

580
00:26:12,234 --> 00:26:15,234
Speaker 1: gift receipt. And you are like, I think this would

581
00:26:15,274 --> 00:26:17,234
Speaker 1: be lovely for you and it won't give me a headache.

582
00:26:17,274 --> 00:26:19,513
Speaker 1: And then see what happens. Although perfume is a tricky

583
00:26:19,514 --> 00:26:21,994
Speaker 1: thing to buy something, I was also thinking that.

584
00:26:22,314 --> 00:26:24,874
Speaker 5: Or I say, let's go a bit rogue and every

585
00:26:24,874 --> 00:26:27,354
Speaker 5: time your mother in law, especially at work, walks past

586
00:26:27,394 --> 00:26:29,474
Speaker 5: you or going into a meeting room that you're in,

587
00:26:29,754 --> 00:26:33,874
Speaker 5: just go, oh oh, no, does anyone have a spray

588
00:26:34,354 --> 00:26:36,434
Speaker 5: something just came in and I don't know what that is?

589
00:26:36,594 --> 00:26:39,394
Speaker 1: What is that smell with deathol? And like just spray

590
00:26:39,434 --> 00:26:44,553
Speaker 1: itel like she smells bad? Yeah, yeah, that'll word evil Genie.

591
00:26:45,074 --> 00:26:45,994
Speaker 1: I think that it really works.

592
00:26:46,114 --> 00:26:48,553
Speaker 3: Out loud is what would you do next? Share your

593
00:26:48,594 --> 00:26:51,954
Speaker 3: thoughts in the mummir out loud Facebook group. Also, if

594
00:26:51,994 --> 00:26:53,914
Speaker 3: you have a dilemma, send it to us at out

595
00:26:53,994 --> 00:26:56,914
Speaker 3: loud at momamea dot com, dot a you We would

596
00:26:56,994 --> 00:27:01,354
Speaker 3: love to help. Apparently there are only three different types

597
00:27:01,394 --> 00:27:05,194
Speaker 3: of decisions and working out what kind of decision you're

598
00:27:05,274 --> 00:27:09,114
Speaker 3: facing can be life changing me. It's sent through this

599
00:27:09,274 --> 00:27:12,714
Speaker 3: substack note this week that quotes James Clear And if

600
00:27:12,754 --> 00:27:15,274
Speaker 3: anyone is looking for a book in January that promises

601
00:27:15,314 --> 00:27:19,154
Speaker 3: to change your life, Atomic habits, audiobook, hard copy, whatever

602
00:27:19,194 --> 00:27:20,314
Speaker 3: it is, you know what great gift.

603
00:27:20,394 --> 00:27:21,794
Speaker 2: If you know the persuct hasn't read.

604
00:27:21,634 --> 00:27:23,634
Speaker 1: It, that book spikes every jam.

605
00:27:23,954 --> 00:27:26,354
Speaker 2: Every January that book goes off. I have read it.

606
00:27:26,474 --> 00:27:27,394
Speaker 2: I bloody love it.

607
00:27:27,874 --> 00:27:30,114
Speaker 3: But this actually isn't from that book. He has a

608
00:27:30,154 --> 00:27:32,954
Speaker 3: newsletter which I would also recommend. But it's his theory,

609
00:27:33,434 --> 00:27:37,273
Speaker 3: and here's what he writes. Most decisions are like hats.

610
00:27:37,594 --> 00:27:39,513
Speaker 3: Try one, if you don't like it, put it back

611
00:27:39,554 --> 00:27:41,714
Speaker 3: and try another. The cost of a mistake is low,

612
00:27:42,154 --> 00:27:44,754
Speaker 3: so move quickly and try a bunch of hats. Some

613
00:27:44,994 --> 00:27:47,914
Speaker 3: decisions are like haircuts. You can fix a bad one,

614
00:27:47,994 --> 00:27:50,034
Speaker 3: but it won't be quick and you might feel foolish

615
00:27:50,074 --> 00:27:51,914
Speaker 3: for a while. That said, don't be scared of a

616
00:27:51,954 --> 00:27:56,074
Speaker 3: bad haircut. Trying something new is usually a risk worth taking.

617
00:27:57,194 --> 00:27:59,353
Speaker 3: If it doesn't work out, by this time next year,

618
00:27:59,394 --> 00:28:01,114
Speaker 3: you will have moved on, and so will everyone else.

619
00:28:01,594 --> 00:28:04,954
Speaker 3: A few decisions are like tattoos. Once you make them,

620
00:28:04,994 --> 00:28:06,914
Speaker 3: you have to live with them. Some mistakes the era

621
00:28:06,954 --> 00:28:09,793
Speaker 3: of maybe you'll move on for a moment, but then

622
00:28:09,874 --> 00:28:11,794
Speaker 3: your glance in the mirror and be reminded of that

623
00:28:11,874 --> 00:28:14,594
Speaker 3: choice all over again, even years later, the decision leaves

624
00:28:14,634 --> 00:28:18,154
Speaker 3: a mark. When you're dealing with an irreversible choice, move

625
00:28:18,434 --> 00:28:20,434
Speaker 3: slowly and think carefully.

626
00:28:20,594 --> 00:28:24,154
Speaker 1: Oh, I love this. My question is, do you.

627
00:28:24,434 --> 00:28:28,954
Speaker 3: Think it's that simple to always classify a decision like

628
00:28:29,034 --> 00:28:31,554
Speaker 3: I can definitely see hats, and I can see tattoos,

629
00:28:32,434 --> 00:28:34,994
Speaker 3: But there are some decisions even I feel like I'm

630
00:28:35,034 --> 00:28:38,714
Speaker 3: facing at the moment where I don't know how to

631
00:28:38,834 --> 00:28:41,434
Speaker 3: classify them. And in fact, maybe there's something between a

632
00:28:41,514 --> 00:28:43,474
Speaker 3: haircut and a tattoo that we need a name for.

633
00:28:43,674 --> 00:28:44,234
Speaker 2: What do you reckon?

634
00:28:44,634 --> 00:28:47,474
Speaker 5: I also think with haircut, I feel like, because it's

635
00:28:47,514 --> 00:28:51,074
Speaker 5: the middle one, sometimes what might be a haircut in

636
00:28:51,154 --> 00:28:54,714
Speaker 5: the moment feels like a tattoo decision. Ye, or you

637
00:28:54,874 --> 00:28:58,194
Speaker 5: might mistake it for a hat decision and then you

638
00:28:58,394 --> 00:29:01,234
Speaker 5: just snowball. Because I have thought about this quite a bit,

639
00:29:01,354 --> 00:29:03,994
Speaker 5: and I think I treat a lot of my haircut

640
00:29:04,114 --> 00:29:08,234
Speaker 5: decisions as hat decisions. Really give me an example, like

641
00:29:08,394 --> 00:29:10,554
Speaker 5: actual haircut, Remember when I dyed my hair blue.

642
00:29:13,514 --> 00:29:15,714
Speaker 1: But that's okay because that was a hat decision. The

643
00:29:15,754 --> 00:29:18,274
Speaker 1: blue goes away, but it was a haircut decision. I

644
00:29:18,354 --> 00:29:21,274
Speaker 1: had that for a year. Well, it was a literal

645
00:29:21,354 --> 00:29:22,194
Speaker 1: haircut decision.

646
00:29:22,594 --> 00:29:25,674
Speaker 3: I wonder if hair dye is the one between the

647
00:29:25,714 --> 00:29:29,434
Speaker 3: haircut and a tattoo, right, because a haircut's one thing. Yeah,

648
00:29:29,674 --> 00:29:32,034
Speaker 3: I've cut my hair too shot, I've gotten a full

649
00:29:32,114 --> 00:29:35,874
Speaker 3: fringe that hasn't suited me. There's some bad months. I've

650
00:29:35,954 --> 00:29:39,034
Speaker 3: also screwed up the dye, and there's some bad years.

651
00:29:39,554 --> 00:29:40,794
Speaker 3: There's some real damage.

652
00:29:41,314 --> 00:29:43,994
Speaker 2: It takes a lot to fix. And it's not as

653
00:29:44,074 --> 00:29:44,714
Speaker 2: simple as.

654
00:29:44,834 --> 00:29:48,474
Speaker 1: Just like, I'm still a haircut decision. Though, Let's give

655
00:29:48,554 --> 00:29:53,594
Speaker 1: some real life applications. Resigning from a job when you

656
00:29:53,714 --> 00:29:56,434
Speaker 1: don't have another job yet because it's making you miserable.

657
00:29:56,754 --> 00:29:59,874
Speaker 1: Is that a haircut or a hat or a tattoo?

658
00:30:00,354 --> 00:30:03,154
Speaker 1: A haircut? I think it's a haircut, right, Yeah, And

659
00:30:03,314 --> 00:30:06,594
Speaker 1: it might be really difficult because you might have a

660
00:30:06,754 --> 00:30:10,754
Speaker 1: period of time where you are skinned where you realize

661
00:30:10,754 --> 00:30:11,914
Speaker 1: you're going to have to either go back to that

662
00:30:11,994 --> 00:30:13,714
Speaker 1: job or get one just the same because your dream

663
00:30:13,834 --> 00:30:17,074
Speaker 1: job hasn't turned up yet. Whatever. It probably ticks the

664
00:30:17,154 --> 00:30:20,594
Speaker 1: box of in a year, will it have sorted itself

665
00:30:20,674 --> 00:30:23,674
Speaker 1: out in some way? And the haircut definition, right, we.

666
00:30:23,794 --> 00:30:26,514
Speaker 3: Go, what gift am I gonna buy? What am I

667
00:30:26,554 --> 00:30:29,394
Speaker 3: gonna have for lunch? Really simple ones that we make

668
00:30:29,434 --> 00:30:31,714
Speaker 3: every day, and we probably fret over some of those

669
00:30:31,794 --> 00:30:32,994
Speaker 3: things for longer than we should.

670
00:30:33,114 --> 00:30:35,154
Speaker 5: Yeah, because I feel like some people's hats are different

671
00:30:35,234 --> 00:30:37,794
Speaker 5: to other people's hats. Like I take my hat decisions

672
00:30:37,874 --> 00:30:39,434
Speaker 5: sometimes quite seriously.

673
00:30:39,954 --> 00:30:42,874
Speaker 3: Yeah, even like work decisions that I know are fairly

674
00:30:43,034 --> 00:30:45,234
Speaker 3: I have been known at work to treat a hat

675
00:30:45,354 --> 00:30:48,274
Speaker 3: like a tattoo and to go, no, if we make

676
00:30:48,354 --> 00:30:50,874
Speaker 3: this small change, then it's gonna be permanent, and it's

677
00:30:50,914 --> 00:30:54,234
Speaker 3: gonna be And it's like, nah, you've got to evolve

678
00:30:54,434 --> 00:30:58,514
Speaker 3: more quickly than that and kind of be impulsive.

679
00:30:58,674 --> 00:30:59,954
Speaker 1: Moved into a new place.

680
00:31:00,554 --> 00:31:01,714
Speaker 2: That's the one I'm struggling with.

681
00:31:01,874 --> 00:31:04,754
Speaker 1: That's a haircut decision too. No, it's not, I think

682
00:31:04,874 --> 00:31:07,114
Speaker 1: I think the tattoo, No, it's not, because you could

683
00:31:07,234 --> 00:31:10,274
Speaker 1: move back, you know what I mean. Like the haircut,

684
00:31:10,354 --> 00:31:12,954
Speaker 1: it's still a haircut. It's a drastic haircut. It's a

685
00:31:12,994 --> 00:31:16,274
Speaker 1: buzz cut, like it's not a trim, you know. So

686
00:31:16,434 --> 00:31:18,914
Speaker 1: maybe the haircut, like what you're looking for here is

687
00:31:18,954 --> 00:31:21,314
Speaker 1: also it's a buzz cut, not a trim, so the

688
00:31:21,394 --> 00:31:24,354
Speaker 1: growback will be bad, but if you really really want

689
00:31:24,434 --> 00:31:27,514
Speaker 1: to try it. Sometimes we talk ourselves out of things

690
00:31:27,634 --> 00:31:30,354
Speaker 1: because we're like, it's forever, but it's not forever. Okay,

691
00:31:30,434 --> 00:31:32,914
Speaker 1: you can come back. We all know people who've been

692
00:31:32,994 --> 00:31:34,394
Speaker 1: places and come back again.

693
00:31:34,994 --> 00:31:40,074
Speaker 3: Yes, but a bad investment, a bad money decision, whether

694
00:31:40,154 --> 00:31:44,034
Speaker 3: that's marrying someone who spends all the money, whether that

695
00:31:44,354 --> 00:31:48,434
Speaker 3: is buying a place you shouldn't have, whatever, a bad

696
00:31:48,554 --> 00:31:49,954
Speaker 3: money decision can be attached to.

697
00:31:50,274 --> 00:31:51,834
Speaker 1: That's so true. But the thing is is there are

698
00:31:51,994 --> 00:31:54,154
Speaker 1: or even within this framework, there are always going to

699
00:31:54,154 --> 00:31:56,954
Speaker 1: be things that are beyond your control. So like buying

700
00:31:57,234 --> 00:31:59,754
Speaker 1: a house in a place that then suddenly the price

701
00:31:59,834 --> 00:32:02,314
Speaker 1: is drop or whatever, like, that's not really something you

702
00:32:02,394 --> 00:32:05,034
Speaker 1: can control. So it might have started out as a

703
00:32:05,114 --> 00:32:08,474
Speaker 1: haircut decision, more often to a tattoo decision because you've

704
00:32:08,514 --> 00:32:11,754
Speaker 1: lost all your money. But there are some things you

705
00:32:11,874 --> 00:32:12,434
Speaker 1: can't control.

706
00:32:12,554 --> 00:32:15,034
Speaker 2: Okay. So one of the true tattooed choosing.

707
00:32:14,834 --> 00:32:19,674
Speaker 1: To have kids children possibly the ultimate tattoo decision. Right

708
00:32:19,994 --> 00:32:22,754
Speaker 1: who you married. You could argue that's a buzz cut

709
00:32:22,794 --> 00:32:23,554
Speaker 1: decision as well.

710
00:32:23,554 --> 00:32:25,594
Speaker 5: I don't think you should go into marriage thinking it's

711
00:32:25,594 --> 00:32:26,114
Speaker 5: a haircut.

712
00:32:28,434 --> 00:32:28,874
Speaker 3: I don't know.

713
00:32:29,354 --> 00:32:33,034
Speaker 1: I don't know tattoos they are a tattoo decision. Like

714
00:32:33,154 --> 00:32:37,394
Speaker 1: that's well, you can, It's true there are not that

715
00:32:37,594 --> 00:32:39,474
Speaker 1: many fol But I think one of the ways this

716
00:32:39,594 --> 00:32:43,154
Speaker 1: is really helpful is also to sometimes remind yourself of

717
00:32:43,274 --> 00:32:44,554
Speaker 1: what might be a hat for you could be a

718
00:32:44,594 --> 00:32:47,034
Speaker 1: haircut for someone else. So if you're a manager, for example,

719
00:32:47,114 --> 00:32:51,674
Speaker 1: at work, if you're making a decision that affects how

720
00:32:51,794 --> 00:32:55,154
Speaker 1: you work, it's a hat decision, right, like, because who

721
00:32:55,234 --> 00:32:57,154
Speaker 1: cares if it doesn't work out? Doesn't matter. If you're

722
00:32:57,194 --> 00:32:59,634
Speaker 1: making a decision that affects how everyone on the team

723
00:32:59,754 --> 00:33:03,114
Speaker 1: has to work, it's a haircut decision because that's going

724
00:33:03,154 --> 00:33:05,274
Speaker 1: to have more repercussions for everybody and it's going to

725
00:33:05,274 --> 00:33:07,754
Speaker 1: be harder to undo. So it's like this might be

726
00:33:07,834 --> 00:33:10,834
Speaker 1: a helpful framework to be able to think, well, it

727
00:33:10,874 --> 00:33:12,714
Speaker 1: doesn't matter to me, it's just a hat, but to

728
00:33:12,834 --> 00:33:14,274
Speaker 1: that person, it's a haircut.

729
00:33:14,754 --> 00:33:18,194
Speaker 3: I have a lot of trouble making all sorts of decisions,

730
00:33:18,394 --> 00:33:21,114
Speaker 3: and I get a bit of decision paralysis, and I

731
00:33:21,194 --> 00:33:23,874
Speaker 3: think it's because I look at almost all situations in

732
00:33:23,954 --> 00:33:27,314
Speaker 3: life and I feel as though there is a right decision,

733
00:33:27,394 --> 00:33:29,074
Speaker 3: or there is a perfect decision, and there is a

734
00:33:29,114 --> 00:33:31,994
Speaker 3: wrong decision. It's almost like it's a test, and I go,

735
00:33:32,794 --> 00:33:36,234
Speaker 3: if you stuff this up, there will be enormous grammifications

736
00:33:36,314 --> 00:33:39,354
Speaker 3: or whatever, which is perfectionism, and it's not true. It's

737
00:33:39,394 --> 00:33:41,794
Speaker 3: like an illusion. It's just you've got to take the

738
00:33:41,914 --> 00:33:44,554
Speaker 3: course or whatever. But in that way, I think you

739
00:33:44,634 --> 00:33:49,514
Speaker 3: can spend so much of your life focusing on the

740
00:33:49,594 --> 00:33:52,674
Speaker 3: small scale ones, whereas I was reading something that said

741
00:33:52,714 --> 00:33:55,194
Speaker 3: you should spend like ten percent of your day really

742
00:33:55,274 --> 00:33:59,114
Speaker 3: thinking about the tattooed decisions, because we actually don't spend

743
00:33:59,154 --> 00:34:01,914
Speaker 3: that much time. Some people always know they want kids,

744
00:34:01,954 --> 00:34:04,874
Speaker 3: some people don't. We talked about that recently. But the

745
00:34:04,954 --> 00:34:09,513
Speaker 3: tattooed decisions I think we put off, don't meaningfully engage with,

746
00:34:09,674 --> 00:34:11,834
Speaker 3: and we can get swept up in them and they go, oh,

747
00:34:11,913 --> 00:34:13,953
Speaker 3: I made this permanent decison, or I've been making a

748
00:34:13,994 --> 00:34:15,754
Speaker 3: decision for ten years and it landed me in a

749
00:34:15,754 --> 00:34:16,474
Speaker 3: place I don't want to be.

750
00:34:16,994 --> 00:34:18,994
Speaker 1: But I don't believe there is such a thing as

751
00:34:18,994 --> 00:34:21,993
Speaker 1: a perfect decision ever. I think that every single big,

752
00:34:22,194 --> 00:34:24,553
Speaker 1: big choice you make will still have some things about

753
00:34:24,554 --> 00:34:26,194
Speaker 1: it that are a bit shit, you know what I mean.

754
00:34:26,474 --> 00:34:27,994
Speaker 1: I think that there are you know, we had that

755
00:34:28,074 --> 00:34:31,634
Speaker 1: whole conversation on out Loud last week about children and

756
00:34:31,754 --> 00:34:34,274
Speaker 1: whether or not it was okay to say sometimes like

757
00:34:34,514 --> 00:34:36,433
Speaker 1: I sometimes think about what would happen if I've made

758
00:34:36,434 --> 00:34:38,314
Speaker 1: a different choice, and we talked about whether that was okay,

759
00:34:38,674 --> 00:34:41,194
Speaker 1: and I think it is. It's not really true that

760
00:34:41,274 --> 00:34:43,954
Speaker 1: there is one perfect choice.

761
00:34:44,434 --> 00:34:46,114
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I hate the feeling like this is such

762
00:34:46,114 --> 00:34:48,554
Speaker 3: a low stakes one. But you're trying to plan a holiday.

763
00:34:48,634 --> 00:34:50,433
Speaker 3: Maybe you're looking at January and you're going, where am

764
00:34:50,474 --> 00:34:50,794
Speaker 3: I going to go?

765
00:34:50,914 --> 00:34:53,034
Speaker 1: That's a hair cut, not a hat because it's expensive

766
00:34:53,194 --> 00:34:55,634
Speaker 1: and of involved usually if you're going away with other

767
00:34:55,674 --> 00:34:56,794
Speaker 1: people it involves them too.

768
00:34:56,994 --> 00:35:00,714
Speaker 3: And you go and you think, even how I'm going

769
00:35:00,754 --> 00:35:02,354
Speaker 3: to spend the holidays, like am I going to go away?

770
00:35:02,354 --> 00:35:03,554
Speaker 2: Am I not? Who am I going to spend it with?

771
00:35:03,634 --> 00:35:03,834
Speaker 1: Whatever?

772
00:35:03,914 --> 00:35:06,114
Speaker 2: And you do something, You go made the wrong decision.

773
00:35:06,194 --> 00:35:07,114
Speaker 2: I've gone to the wrong place.

774
00:35:07,914 --> 00:35:12,194
Speaker 3: I've booked the wrong hotel or Airbnb, and I should

775
00:35:12,234 --> 00:35:15,634
Speaker 3: have done this instead, Like I hate sitting in that discount.

776
00:35:15,634 --> 00:35:17,954
Speaker 5: And see that was me on the holiday, and it

777
00:35:18,074 --> 00:35:20,434
Speaker 5: was like a solo holiday by myself. I'm okay with

778
00:35:20,514 --> 00:35:23,514
Speaker 5: that decision if I had planned that for other people,

779
00:35:23,794 --> 00:35:26,634
Speaker 5: like my friends or family. I even get this when

780
00:35:26,674 --> 00:35:29,914
Speaker 5: I am planning, like taking my friends out to dinner

781
00:35:29,994 --> 00:35:32,794
Speaker 5: at a restaurant. If I'm choosing the restaurant, and like

782
00:35:33,274 --> 00:35:36,554
Speaker 5: they complain about like how their steak is cooked or

783
00:35:36,674 --> 00:35:38,394
Speaker 5: like the service was too slow.

784
00:35:38,394 --> 00:35:39,554
Speaker 4: I think that's my fault.

785
00:35:39,794 --> 00:35:41,874
Speaker 1: You take it on and I think that is the criticism.

786
00:35:41,994 --> 00:35:43,194
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And then it.

787
00:35:43,394 --> 00:35:44,993
Speaker 1: Freaks me out because I'm like I always tell everyone.

788
00:35:45,034 --> 00:35:46,394
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm sheep. I need to follow.

789
00:35:46,914 --> 00:35:48,274
Speaker 4: I don't want to lead, you know.

790
00:35:49,594 --> 00:35:52,433
Speaker 1: I think there's another rule about these decisions, right, other

791
00:35:52,514 --> 00:35:57,074
Speaker 1: people's tattoo decisions. You have to just support the decision

792
00:35:57,074 --> 00:36:00,194
Speaker 1: they've made. I saw this poem on Instagram the other

793
00:36:00,234 --> 00:36:02,034
Speaker 1: day that I thought was very true, and it was like,

794
00:36:02,994 --> 00:36:05,754
Speaker 1: be kind about the names your friends give to their children,

795
00:36:06,314 --> 00:36:09,074
Speaker 1: praise their hair cuts, love their tattoos. It doesn't really

796
00:36:09,114 --> 00:36:10,954
Speaker 1: matter if that's what you would do, which is one

797
00:36:11,034 --> 00:36:13,594
Speaker 1: hundred percent true, right, because there's no more of a

798
00:36:13,674 --> 00:36:16,234
Speaker 1: dickhead test than you show them your tattoo your literal

799
00:36:16,314 --> 00:36:19,794
Speaker 1: tattoo and they go, oh, like what I have to

800
00:36:19,874 --> 00:36:22,234
Speaker 1: do or tell them you know, oh, we're calling her

801
00:36:22,794 --> 00:36:26,914
Speaker 1: ballerina and they're like, oh, it's like no, Like the

802
00:36:27,474 --> 00:36:29,954
Speaker 1: these are tattooed decisions, and if you like the person involved,

803
00:36:30,234 --> 00:36:32,514
Speaker 1: you have to say great choice.

804
00:36:32,514 --> 00:36:35,194
Speaker 5: I noticed this about dating as well, like you can

805
00:36:35,314 --> 00:36:38,274
Speaker 5: tell when your friend is kind of not interested in

806
00:36:38,394 --> 00:36:41,634
Speaker 5: someone versus when they're obsessed with the person they're dating

807
00:36:41,954 --> 00:36:44,554
Speaker 5: by how other people react to when they show them photos.

808
00:36:45,114 --> 00:36:46,794
Speaker 5: Because like, if he's show a photo of like a

809
00:36:46,914 --> 00:36:49,074
Speaker 5: random guy, and you're like, I kind of like him,

810
00:36:49,114 --> 00:36:50,994
Speaker 5: it's a bit of a dick to me, then they're like, oh,

811
00:36:51,034 --> 00:36:52,393
Speaker 5: I don't like his hair, I don't like.

812
00:36:52,474 --> 00:36:53,513
Speaker 1: This he's too short.

813
00:36:53,794 --> 00:36:55,514
Speaker 5: But if it's like someone else, it could be the

814
00:36:55,554 --> 00:36:57,674
Speaker 5: exact same guy, and you're like, I love this man,

815
00:36:57,994 --> 00:36:58,953
Speaker 5: and everyone's so cute.

816
00:36:59,754 --> 00:37:00,754
Speaker 1: He's so hot.

817
00:37:00,954 --> 00:37:03,194
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's amazing, he looks kind.

818
00:37:03,434 --> 00:37:06,554
Speaker 1: So I always appreciating Like that, always so good feedback.

819
00:37:06,714 --> 00:37:09,393
Speaker 3: I also I read something called the regret test, which

820
00:37:09,394 --> 00:37:11,994
Speaker 3: I thought was really helpful, which was about there are

821
00:37:12,034 --> 00:37:14,674
Speaker 3: so many iterations of this, but imagine yourself in ten years,

822
00:37:15,194 --> 00:37:18,714
Speaker 3: which choice would minimize regret and which choice makes me proud?

823
00:37:19,034 --> 00:37:20,754
Speaker 3: And it was saying that this is so much better

824
00:37:20,794 --> 00:37:23,114
Speaker 3: than pros and cons, Like how when you look back

825
00:37:23,114 --> 00:37:24,554
Speaker 3: in ten years, what I regret.

826
00:37:24,594 --> 00:37:25,634
Speaker 2: Not making this decision?

827
00:37:25,674 --> 00:37:28,393
Speaker 3: Because sometimes the decision is not making one and that's

828
00:37:28,434 --> 00:37:31,034
Speaker 3: also one that you have to kind of live with.

829
00:37:31,434 --> 00:37:33,514
Speaker 1: Oprah says. We were talking about Oprah Wisdom on the

830
00:37:33,554 --> 00:37:36,114
Speaker 1: show this week, and she says, if you don't know

831
00:37:36,154 --> 00:37:40,154
Speaker 1: what to do, do nothing because like often, many things

832
00:37:40,194 --> 00:37:42,994
Speaker 1: in life will sort themselves out, not everything, quite a

833
00:37:43,034 --> 00:37:46,554
Speaker 1: few you will, whereas quick action can often be the mistake.

834
00:37:47,314 --> 00:37:49,074
Speaker 1: The truth of it is, though you know, even with

835
00:37:49,194 --> 00:37:51,874
Speaker 1: all this hat, haircut, tattoos, often it'll be the tiniest

836
00:37:51,914 --> 00:37:54,274
Speaker 1: decisions that you make that will change your life. Did

837
00:37:54,354 --> 00:37:56,514
Speaker 1: you get on the bus with that guy who turned

838
00:37:56,554 --> 00:37:59,674
Speaker 1: out to be the person of your dreams? Did you

839
00:37:59,994 --> 00:38:01,914
Speaker 1: pick up the phone when somebody called you about a

840
00:38:01,954 --> 00:38:03,354
Speaker 1: dream job? Did you you know?

841
00:38:03,514 --> 00:38:03,834
Speaker 2: Whatever?

842
00:38:03,834 --> 00:38:06,634
Speaker 1: It is like, sometimes it's just the decision. You don't

843
00:38:06,634 --> 00:38:10,794
Speaker 1: know a big you think the hats exactly, that's magical.

844
00:38:11,314 --> 00:38:15,514
Speaker 1: After the break. Recommendations for something to read, eat and

845
00:38:15,674 --> 00:38:19,674
Speaker 1: smell this weekend, including mine one, which is a piece

846
00:38:19,714 --> 00:38:21,394
Speaker 1: about the greatest generation ever.

847
00:38:22,834 --> 00:38:24,594
Speaker 2: One unlimited out loud access.

848
00:38:24,914 --> 00:38:28,994
Speaker 3: We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively from Mum

849
00:38:29,074 --> 00:38:32,033
Speaker 3: and Maya. Subscribers follow the link in the show notes

850
00:38:32,074 --> 00:38:34,513
Speaker 3: to get us in your ears five days a week.

851
00:38:34,714 --> 00:38:37,393
Speaker 2: And a huge thank you to all our current subscribers.

852
00:38:46,594 --> 00:38:50,473
Speaker 5: Vibes ideas atmosphere, something casual, something fun.

853
00:38:51,034 --> 00:38:53,114
Speaker 4: This is my best recommendation.

854
00:38:54,154 --> 00:38:55,994
Speaker 1: Out loud as it's Friday, and you know what happens

855
00:38:56,034 --> 00:38:59,274
Speaker 1: on Friday. We give you recommendations of things to watch, read, eat,

856
00:38:59,394 --> 00:39:02,234
Speaker 1: do whatever with, spray self with. I think perhaps Adam's

857
00:39:02,234 --> 00:39:04,394
Speaker 1: going to do I forgot my prop.

858
00:39:04,954 --> 00:39:08,194
Speaker 5: Oh no, we're on YouTube, You're on you and I

859
00:39:08,274 --> 00:39:11,473
Speaker 5: wanted to show everyone. Just pretend it's on my desk

860
00:39:11,834 --> 00:39:13,314
Speaker 5: so I might take a photo and post it in

861
00:39:13,354 --> 00:39:15,914
Speaker 5: the out Outers groupe. It is literally going to be

862
00:39:16,154 --> 00:39:20,554
Speaker 5: everyone's favorite summer cent. So it's the away hair and

863
00:39:20,634 --> 00:39:22,994
Speaker 5: body missed in the sense Saint Barts. I think they

864
00:39:23,074 --> 00:39:26,234
Speaker 5: only have one cent so far in Australia. It's from Sephora.

865
00:39:26,354 --> 00:39:30,834
Speaker 5: It's basically a body missed and it smells so good.

866
00:39:31,114 --> 00:39:34,074
Speaker 5: It smells like a summer holiday. It's like coconuty and

867
00:39:34,234 --> 00:39:38,873
Speaker 5: pineapplely and fresh and tropical. It is a little bit

868
00:39:39,034 --> 00:39:41,314
Speaker 5: pricier than a usual body miss. I have a small

869
00:39:41,354 --> 00:39:43,914
Speaker 5: one in my handbag. It's like fifty five dollars. A

870
00:39:43,954 --> 00:39:47,114
Speaker 5: bigger one is seventy dollars. But it's so like good

871
00:39:47,354 --> 00:39:49,194
Speaker 5: that it lasts a whole day. So I use it

872
00:39:49,274 --> 00:39:50,034
Speaker 5: as a perfume.

873
00:39:50,314 --> 00:39:52,913
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, what's different, what's the difference really

874
00:39:52,994 --> 00:40:01,034
Speaker 1: between a body? Miss? Okay, so perfume we go, yeah, yeah, but.

875
00:40:01,074 --> 00:40:03,194
Speaker 5: Because it's like so it smells really really good and

876
00:40:03,274 --> 00:40:07,154
Speaker 5: it's so strong, I only go hair, chest, crotch.

877
00:40:10,514 --> 00:40:14,554
Speaker 4: Something, not purposely doing it there.

878
00:40:14,594 --> 00:40:16,274
Speaker 5: It's just like that's where like the rest of your

879
00:40:16,314 --> 00:40:19,994
Speaker 5: body is surely yeah.

880
00:40:19,314 --> 00:40:22,754
Speaker 1: Yeah, got it? Like no, no, yeah, yeah, I'm sure

881
00:40:22,794 --> 00:40:24,714
Speaker 1: there's something about like clothes.

882
00:40:24,394 --> 00:40:25,794
Speaker 4: On yeah yeah, no, no no.

883
00:40:26,154 --> 00:40:28,274
Speaker 1: It just smells so fresh and good. And I've been

884
00:40:28,274 --> 00:40:29,474
Speaker 1: getting a lot of compliments on it.

885
00:40:29,794 --> 00:40:31,553
Speaker 2: Oh I like that from so Fara.

886
00:40:32,034 --> 00:40:34,594
Speaker 3: Well, I have a recommendation that's a little bit city centric,

887
00:40:35,234 --> 00:40:37,514
Speaker 3: but I think there's an underlying principle which we can

888
00:40:37,554 --> 00:40:38,874
Speaker 3: all adopt this Christmas.

889
00:40:39,074 --> 00:40:39,234
Speaker 1: Right.

890
00:40:39,714 --> 00:40:41,714
Speaker 3: I was speaking to a friend recently who's having a

891
00:40:41,994 --> 00:40:44,514
Speaker 3: tough time. This is not a period that she's particularly

892
00:40:44,594 --> 00:40:47,594
Speaker 3: looking forward to. They're having a Christmas but big emotional

893
00:40:47,754 --> 00:40:50,714
Speaker 3: mental load and they just went, we're outsourcing and she

894
00:40:50,994 --> 00:40:55,754
Speaker 3: found that Dinner Ladies does Christmas dishes and Dinner Ladies

895
00:40:56,074 --> 00:40:59,434
Speaker 3: is this great. It's a Australian lady startup started in

896
00:40:59,674 --> 00:41:02,274
Speaker 3: New South Wales. Really good for if you know anyone

897
00:41:02,394 --> 00:41:06,554
Speaker 3: who is unwell or postpartum or whatever, great thing to

898
00:41:06,634 --> 00:41:10,754
Speaker 3: send them a Dinner Ladies voucher. And it's like home cooked,

899
00:41:10,834 --> 00:41:15,513
Speaker 3: real ingredients, locally sauced good food. It's not it's really

900
00:41:15,554 --> 00:41:18,274
Speaker 3: really good food. And they cater for Christmas, which I

901
00:41:18,354 --> 00:41:20,873
Speaker 3: had no idea about. So you can get your ham

902
00:41:21,034 --> 00:41:23,554
Speaker 3: and your turkey and your side salads and your dessert.

903
00:41:24,154 --> 00:41:26,194
Speaker 3: I've got to bring an entree for something, and they've

904
00:41:26,234 --> 00:41:29,593
Speaker 3: got like g roast tomato tart. They've got duck sausage rolls,

905
00:41:29,674 --> 00:41:32,513
Speaker 3: that kind of stuff that you can buy and then

906
00:41:32,714 --> 00:41:34,993
Speaker 3: and it's kinder. It's kind of for me to bring

907
00:41:35,114 --> 00:41:36,114
Speaker 3: something from Dinner Ladies.

908
00:41:36,154 --> 00:41:38,554
Speaker 1: I think you mean that make it yourself.

909
00:41:38,754 --> 00:41:39,794
Speaker 2: Yeah, that make it myself.

910
00:41:40,034 --> 00:41:42,674
Speaker 3: It's not cheap, but that's because it's quality food. And

911
00:41:42,754 --> 00:41:46,274
Speaker 3: if everyone pitches in for the catering. That's a good idea,

912
00:41:46,394 --> 00:41:49,114
Speaker 3: which I know some families do a whip around. Yeah,

913
00:41:49,114 --> 00:41:50,954
Speaker 3: and you know what, do it in place of a gift,

914
00:41:51,314 --> 00:41:53,314
Speaker 3: just go you know what, we're not doing gifts. Everyone

915
00:41:53,434 --> 00:41:56,754
Speaker 3: put in forty five bucks for food, and we'll just

916
00:41:56,834 --> 00:41:59,194
Speaker 3: give each other the gift of not spending the day

917
00:41:59,234 --> 00:42:02,033
Speaker 3: in the kitchen, because we know it often comes down

918
00:42:02,114 --> 00:42:06,994
Speaker 3: to one or five sweaty ladies in the kitchen. And

919
00:42:07,514 --> 00:42:09,554
Speaker 3: if you don't feel like doing that this year, then

920
00:42:09,954 --> 00:42:12,794
Speaker 3: outsource that is. I love the gift that you should

921
00:42:12,794 --> 00:42:14,473
Speaker 3: give yourself. Holly, what have you got?

922
00:42:15,434 --> 00:42:18,074
Speaker 1: I've got an essay that is going to be very

923
00:42:18,194 --> 00:42:21,634
Speaker 1: interesting to a certain portion of our audience, which.

924
00:42:21,434 --> 00:42:22,433
Speaker 2: Is in the New York Times.

925
00:42:22,514 --> 00:42:24,594
Speaker 1: And it's like one of those you know, like those

926
00:42:24,674 --> 00:42:28,194
Speaker 1: interactive essays that have videos when you can scroll and

927
00:42:28,274 --> 00:42:31,594
Speaker 1: things pop out, and it's called is Gen X actually

928
00:42:31,834 --> 00:42:32,914
Speaker 1: the Greatest Generation?

929
00:42:33,394 --> 00:42:35,873
Speaker 2: I didn't click on that. I saw the headline. Now

930
00:42:35,874 --> 00:42:37,794
Speaker 2: I was like, this is not any of.

931
00:42:37,794 --> 00:42:41,474
Speaker 1: My business, and it's all about Generation X. And it

932
00:42:41,634 --> 00:42:45,274
Speaker 1: has collected together a lot of the icons, American icons

933
00:42:45,314 --> 00:42:48,354
Speaker 1: obviously of Generation X for this very satisfying photo shoot

934
00:42:48,394 --> 00:42:52,554
Speaker 1: that has everyone from Claire Danes to like Christian Slater

935
00:42:52,954 --> 00:42:55,873
Speaker 1: and Amy Mann and Neve Campbell and Jennine Grufferlo and

936
00:42:55,914 --> 00:42:59,034
Speaker 1: all these like Generation X icons in these really big

937
00:42:59,074 --> 00:43:02,114
Speaker 1: photo shoots, which is great. But then the writer of

938
00:43:02,234 --> 00:43:05,234
Speaker 1: this piece is a really big, serious New York Times.

939
00:43:05,434 --> 00:43:08,714
Speaker 1: Piece is called Amanda fourteen. And it's the most satisfying

940
00:43:08,794 --> 00:43:11,274
Speaker 1: read because what I've decided, I think about generations. We

941
00:43:11,354 --> 00:43:13,194
Speaker 1: talk about generations all the time on this show, right,

942
00:43:13,234 --> 00:43:17,474
Speaker 1: because they're sort of arbitrary boundaries that are supposed to

943
00:43:17,514 --> 00:43:19,354
Speaker 1: say a lot about you, and I think we all

944
00:43:19,514 --> 00:43:22,154
Speaker 1: know that they don't really, but they also do. It's

945
00:43:22,234 --> 00:43:25,274
Speaker 1: like to misquote Julia Gillard, I think they don't say

946
00:43:25,314 --> 00:43:27,794
Speaker 1: everything about you, Yeah, but they definitely say.

947
00:43:27,674 --> 00:43:30,473
Speaker 3: Something about It's a cultural reference point by which it's

948
00:43:30,514 --> 00:43:32,433
Speaker 3: like a color palette by which you see the world.

949
00:43:32,474 --> 00:43:34,953
Speaker 3: And what's interesting is that we all have completely different ones.

950
00:43:35,114 --> 00:43:39,194
Speaker 1: Yeah, And because the technology that's available to you, the

951
00:43:39,274 --> 00:43:42,354
Speaker 1: big cultural touchstones, of course they influence you. Of course

952
00:43:42,554 --> 00:43:44,914
Speaker 1: it would be weird if they didn't. And gen X

953
00:43:45,034 --> 00:43:46,393
Speaker 1: were some of the things that she says in this

954
00:43:46,474 --> 00:43:48,393
Speaker 1: that there so good because it's basically about gen X

955
00:43:48,474 --> 00:43:50,994
Speaker 1: creativity because The people who are all interviewed in them

956
00:43:51,034 --> 00:43:53,194
Speaker 1: were some of the filmmakers and musicians, and it's about

957
00:43:53,194 --> 00:43:57,754
Speaker 1: the iconic gen X albums and gen X movies, all

958
00:43:57,794 --> 00:44:01,074
Speaker 1: of which are excellent. But also this what makes gen

959
00:44:01,234 --> 00:44:04,754
Speaker 1: X special, which is that they're the last generation who

960
00:44:04,794 --> 00:44:07,433
Speaker 1: were not online until they were adults. But they went

961
00:44:07,514 --> 00:44:10,714
Speaker 1: through that whole change, but they had childhoods that did

962
00:44:10,794 --> 00:44:13,993
Speaker 1: not have technology in them. They were latch key kids.

963
00:44:14,394 --> 00:44:17,794
Speaker 1: It was before helicopter parenting. So they're often discussed as

964
00:44:17,834 --> 00:44:20,953
Speaker 1: being this cohort of like lots of divorced parents too,

965
00:44:21,434 --> 00:44:27,913
Speaker 1: So this cohort of like unpatrolled, unsupervised teens roaming the world.

966
00:44:28,034 --> 00:44:29,554
Speaker 1: You know, like, this is what gen X was, like,

967
00:44:29,714 --> 00:44:31,473
Speaker 1: this is what the kids in Stranger Things are meant

968
00:44:31,474 --> 00:44:33,194
Speaker 1: to be and the kids in et are meant to be,

969
00:44:33,394 --> 00:44:36,154
Speaker 1: and you know all of those and how that fostered

970
00:44:36,154 --> 00:44:38,674
Speaker 1: a certain amount of tolerance for boredom and creativity and

971
00:44:38,714 --> 00:44:42,194
Speaker 1: all these things. And it's just such a beautiful and

972
00:44:42,394 --> 00:44:45,314
Speaker 1: interesting essay. So I'm recommending that, particularly to anyone who

973
00:44:45,354 --> 00:44:47,034
Speaker 1: is gen X. If you're wondering what gen X is,

974
00:44:47,874 --> 00:44:50,234
Speaker 1: there's a bit of argument whether it's you were born

975
00:44:50,274 --> 00:44:53,274
Speaker 1: between nineteen sixty and nineteen eighty or whether you're born

976
00:44:53,314 --> 00:44:56,554
Speaker 1: between nineteen sixty four and nineteen eighty four. Either way,

977
00:44:56,594 --> 00:44:58,194
Speaker 1: I'm pretty much slap bang in the middle of that.

978
00:44:58,874 --> 00:45:03,114
Speaker 1: And those either a boomer or gen X, Yeah, what happened,

979
00:45:03,714 --> 00:45:04,994
Speaker 1: And with some of the things in it that are

980
00:45:05,074 --> 00:45:07,354
Speaker 1: very true. They're talking about gen X heroes and how

981
00:45:07,594 --> 00:45:10,274
Speaker 1: we never expected our heroes to be perfect. We always

982
00:45:10,314 --> 00:45:12,154
Speaker 1: had our characters had the freedom to be flawed. And

983
00:45:12,194 --> 00:45:14,194
Speaker 1: I was reading that and being like, yes, that's what

984
00:45:14,314 --> 00:45:17,953
Speaker 1: I'm always arguing that there's no obligation to be exemplary.

985
00:45:18,514 --> 00:45:21,514
Speaker 1: We have a sensibility that's very much about rejecting norms.

986
00:45:21,514 --> 00:45:23,914
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah blah blah. There's probably never going to

987
00:45:23,954 --> 00:45:25,993
Speaker 1: be a gen X president. They were saying of the US,

988
00:45:26,114 --> 00:45:29,154
Speaker 1: we've probably missed that gap. Obama just would squeak in

989
00:45:30,034 --> 00:45:34,714
Speaker 1: if you took the sixty one and Real so full

990
00:45:34,754 --> 00:45:36,914
Speaker 1: of all these really interrithing things. I absolutely loved it.

991
00:45:36,994 --> 00:45:39,714
Speaker 1: And if it is your era, it's like classic gen

992
00:45:39,874 --> 00:45:43,114
Speaker 1: X movies Before Sunrise, Before Sunset, the Breakfast Club sixty Okay,

993
00:45:43,114 --> 00:45:45,953
Speaker 1: it's like a walk down memory Lane in nineteen ninety four,

994
00:45:46,074 --> 00:45:49,034
Speaker 1: definitely maybe came our ill communication pilafe. I'm probably talking

995
00:45:49,074 --> 00:45:52,354
Speaker 1: in a language you don't understand. Anyway, it's an epic essay,

996
00:45:52,874 --> 00:45:56,234
Speaker 1: but I'm throwing in one extra tiny little recommendation, which

997
00:45:56,274 --> 00:45:57,994
Speaker 1: is a very wholesome one. This is the most megan

998
00:45:58,034 --> 00:46:00,714
Speaker 1: thing I ever do in the year. And I think

999
00:46:00,754 --> 00:46:02,554
Speaker 1: I might have mentioned it before, but at the beginning

1000
00:46:02,594 --> 00:46:04,674
Speaker 1: of December, me and Billy did this on the weekend

1001
00:46:04,714 --> 00:46:07,433
Speaker 1: and it was so satisfying. We get a jar, an

1002
00:46:07,474 --> 00:46:10,234
Speaker 1: empty jar, and we write down all the Christmas movies

1003
00:46:10,274 --> 00:46:12,354
Speaker 1: that we love on pieces of paper and we put

1004
00:46:12,394 --> 00:46:13,994
Speaker 1: them in the jar and we put the lid on it.

1005
00:46:14,074 --> 00:46:16,434
Speaker 1: And then whenever it's movie night, which is like weekend

1006
00:46:16,554 --> 00:46:17,954
Speaker 1: nights and stuff, you go in and you pull a

1007
00:46:17,994 --> 00:46:20,274
Speaker 1: random one out and we watch a Christmas movie and

1008
00:46:20,394 --> 00:46:22,674
Speaker 1: it's our little jar of Christmas movies. And if you've

1009
00:46:22,714 --> 00:46:24,914
Speaker 1: got kids, it's the best thing ever. That's a cue.

1010
00:46:24,954 --> 00:46:27,754
Speaker 1: Oh I like it. We watched Jingle all the Way

1011
00:46:27,914 --> 00:46:30,794
Speaker 1: on the weekend with Arnold Schwarzenegger trying to find a toy.

1012
00:46:30,834 --> 00:46:33,674
Speaker 1: It was not a particularly great movie, but it is

1013
00:46:33,794 --> 00:46:36,554
Speaker 1: die Hard. There's fun. Oh Diehard's in there. Oh yeah,

1014
00:46:36,674 --> 00:46:39,114
Speaker 1: Diehard's in there. All the classics are in there. So

1015
00:46:39,274 --> 00:46:41,194
Speaker 1: I'll put a picture up of our little jar of

1016
00:46:41,274 --> 00:46:41,914
Speaker 1: Christmas movies.

1017
00:46:42,074 --> 00:46:42,554
Speaker 2: I love it.

1018
00:46:43,114 --> 00:46:45,674
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining us, and do not

1019
00:46:45,834 --> 00:46:50,514
Speaker 3: forget that Saturdays are when Parenting out Loud drops That

1020
00:46:50,674 --> 00:46:55,074
Speaker 3: has Monique Bowley, Amelia Lester, and Stacy Hicks. New episode

1021
00:46:55,274 --> 00:46:59,194
Speaker 3: dropping tomorrow. Find it in its own feed by searching

1022
00:46:59,274 --> 00:47:02,314
Speaker 3: Parenting out Loud and tap follow so you don't miss

1023
00:47:02,394 --> 00:47:03,114
Speaker 3: an episode.

1024
00:47:03,354 --> 00:47:05,513
Speaker 2: A link, as always, will be in the show notes.

1025
00:47:05,874 --> 00:47:08,714
Speaker 3: And before we go, big thank you to our team

1026
00:47:08,914 --> 00:47:14,194
Speaker 3: group executive producer Ruth Devine, Executive producer Sashatanic.

1027
00:47:13,634 --> 00:47:16,794
Speaker 5: Senior audio producer is Leah Porges, our video producer is

1028
00:47:16,914 --> 00:47:17,794
Speaker 5: Josh Green, and our.

1029
00:47:17,714 --> 00:47:25,154
Speaker 1: Junior content producer is Tessa Kodovic. Bye bye, Mamma. Mia

1030
00:47:25,234 --> 00:47:28,034
Speaker 1: acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we've

1031
00:47:28,074 --> 00:47:29,354
Speaker 1: recorded this podcast.