Speaker 1: Even after that night, I couldn't let my husband touch me,
Speaker 1: and he never touched me after that night ever again.
Speaker 1: We never kissed, ever again.
Speaker 2: Natalie Bassingthwaite has spent more than two decades moving between music,
Speaker 2: television and theater, building a career that's made her one
Speaker 2: of Australia's most recognizable performers. She began in musical theater,
Speaker 2: performing in the original Australian production of Rent before becoming
Speaker 2: the front woman of Rogue Traders, and became a household
Speaker 2: name when she stepped into Ramsey Street as easy On Neighbors,
Speaker 2: a character who quickly became one of the show's most
Speaker 2: iconic and unforgettable villains. Since then, Nat has worn a
Speaker 2: lot of hats, singer, actor, television host, coach on The
Speaker 2: X Factor, and now once again a musical theater lead
Speaker 2: as she prepares to step into the beloved role of
Speaker 2: Jenna in the Australian production of Waitress. But in recent years,
Speaker 2: Natalie's life has taken a turn she never expected. After
Speaker 2: years in a long term relationship and raising two children,
Speaker 2: Natalie has spoken publicly about the profound personal shift that
Speaker 2: came with falling in love with her now fiance Pip Loth.
Speaker 2: It's a relationship that's opened up an entirely new chapter
Speaker 2: in her life, one she writes about with striking honesty
Speaker 2: in her upcoming autobiography Love Like This. Today, she joins
Speaker 2: me to talk about that new chapter about love, identity, family,
Speaker 2: what it feels like to rebuild a life in full
Speaker 2: view of the public. We also talk about returning to
Speaker 2: musical theater, the place where her career first began, and
Speaker 2: why this moment in her life feels like a kind
Speaker 2: of second beginning. Nat Bass Natalie bassing Thweite, I don't
Speaker 2: think we've ever had on no filter, which is where
Speaker 2: you are anyone who's had such a breadth of how
Speaker 2: they are known to the Australian public as an actor,
Speaker 2: as a host, as a mother, as a lead singer,
Speaker 2: as a wife, as a woman in a committed heterosexual relationship,
Speaker 2: as a woman who's now with a non binary partner,
Speaker 2: as someone who is an author. And it seems like
Speaker 2: there might be a difference between Natalie Bassingthweite, the little
Speaker 2: girl that sprang up in Woollongong and that baths.
Speaker 1: Is there, who is that?
Speaker 2: Who is with that?
Speaker 1: And that is and where did that come from? Who
Speaker 1: came up with that? I don't know's been so long
Speaker 1: now that it was like when did that happen to be.
Speaker 2: In that bass?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I have read your body?
Speaker 2: What a read? What a life?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's actually kind of strange to talk about it,
Speaker 1: to be honest, because it's been so long, obviously in
Speaker 1: life in the making, but also in the actual pen
Speaker 1: to paper and to keyboard type process, and now talking
Speaker 1: about it is strange. What means to cut in the end,
Speaker 1: Like my head is so full, I'm like, where did
Speaker 1: we know?
Speaker 2: Well? Also, sometimes I think when you've written things, it's
Speaker 2: very different from saying them out loud.
Speaker 1: So different, Yeah, very much so, Like it's a lot
Speaker 1: more healing as well. You know, it's at times torturous,
Speaker 1: I think digging up stuff that you don't want to
Speaker 1: face or that you've forgotten about, or that you know,
Speaker 1: starts another little trigger spiral or like another little trauma spiral.
Speaker 1: But ultimately it was just so cathartic in the end.
Speaker 1: Took a while to feel that, but it feels like
Speaker 1: a release. It feels like a big sigh, a big
Speaker 1: breath out, you know, of like holding on for so
Speaker 1: long and then just being able to go.
Speaker 2: And there's also a part of you, I think from
Speaker 2: my own experience, when you tell the truth about things,
Speaker 2: that becomes its own reward and then it yates its
Speaker 2: own momentum. So it's almost like casting off things that
Speaker 2: you thought that you couldn't or aspects of yourself that
Speaker 2: you couldn't show. Yeah, and then when you start to
Speaker 2: reveal them, how does that feel?
Speaker 1: I Mean there's times when like telling your story feels
Speaker 1: too much. It's like I don't know if I want
Speaker 1: this out there, And I think that's honestly why I've
Speaker 1: avoided it so much. Like I was asked to write
Speaker 1: a book I don't know when five years ago, and
Speaker 1: I was like, hello, I don't want anyone knowing my deepest,
Speaker 1: dark as secret, and I'm not one to kind of hide.
Speaker 1: I'm definitely one to protect myself, but I'm not one
Speaker 1: to yeah too high. So it was look, it was
Speaker 1: an exploration in itself, but it was it's just really confronting.
Speaker 2: Where did the impetus come from to write the book? Now?
Speaker 1: Well, clearly the last few years have been crazy for me,
Speaker 1: like personally career wise as well, but more so personally
Speaker 1: and I felt like I had broken down so many
Speaker 1: barriers that I had held really close, like they were
Speaker 1: not coming. It was not coming apart at all. It
Speaker 1: was just going to be like protect, protect protected, or costs,
Speaker 1: cover up, cover up, cover up. And it just when
Speaker 1: I was doing jagged Little peel and I met peep,
Speaker 1: I started writing again, like poetry. And I remember saying
Speaker 1: to me, what music do you listen to? And I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know. I mean, it was the
Speaker 1: weirdest question or ridest answer, and They're like, what do
Speaker 1: you mean? And I was like, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't I haven't listened, like really listened to music for
Speaker 1: so long. I've just been on this roller coaster of
Speaker 1: life and surviving and thriving. You know, life. Life's been
Speaker 1: pretty great, you know. But I mean, obviously I'm so
Speaker 1: menopausal like all of us ladies at this age, so
Speaker 1: my brain is just like, also, I've just done like
Speaker 1: seventy hour weeks where I'm like, I finished really late
Speaker 1: last night and another on a suit. So I'm like,
Speaker 1: did you ask me?
Speaker 2: So you were talking about the music and this you
Speaker 2: write about this here in love like this, and it's
Speaker 2: a very interesting thing. Because music has always been such
Speaker 2: a huge part of who you are, so that when
Speaker 2: someone says to you, what music do you like and
Speaker 2: you can't answer that, do you think that was almost
Speaker 2: a metaphor for where you were in your life at
Speaker 2: that time, in other words, that you were not connected
Speaker 2: with your inner.
Speaker 1: C Yeah, well I just thought major Cousto. Yeah, one
Speaker 1: hundred percent. I think I had learnt very early on
Speaker 1: to survive emotionally is just put a little bit of
Speaker 1: armor on and then put another bit, and then put
Speaker 1: another bit and another bit and another bit, and then
Speaker 1: you're not feeling anymore. Yeah, there's no like, there's like
Speaker 1: feeling at a surface level, which was really quite odd
Speaker 1: for me too, because I'm such an emotional human. But
Speaker 1: I still feel like there was this big protection up
Speaker 1: that to not really listen to music the way I
Speaker 1: listened to it, or then to write the way I wrote,
Speaker 1: or to lie really I honestly fell in my heart
Speaker 1: and I know I've written this in the book. My
Speaker 1: heart was just like had a little all around it,
Speaker 1: just protecting it so it wouldn't fully expose or be raw.
Speaker 1: And after doing that show and it was raw.
Speaker 2: Well, I have to tell you something, because Jagged Little
Speaker 2: Pill was such a if you look at your life
Speaker 2: at where there are critical defining moments, Jagged Little Pill
Speaker 2: the stage production seems to be one of those moments
Speaker 2: for you in which in which everything changed. But I
Speaker 2: actually saw you in that production in Melbourne. It was
Speaker 2: after lockdown, and I went with a girlfriend and I
Speaker 2: didn't know much about it at all at the time.
Speaker 2: I mean, I knew it was the music of Alanis
Speaker 2: Morrissett blah blah blah, yeah, and that the story had
Speaker 2: been kind of retro fitted to it. Anyway, I think
Speaker 2: an interval and the whole thing was significant because it
Speaker 2: was post lockdown, so it was the first time a
Speaker 2: lot of people had been in a theater with other
Speaker 2: people around, and just to be out was significant. But
Speaker 2: at interval, at interval, my girlfriend said Genatt bass is
Speaker 2: amazing and oh waiting, no, well, hang on, I said,
Speaker 2: which one's that bass? And I did not realize. I
Speaker 2: did not realize that you were MJ. I did not
Speaker 2: know that that was you, that I had been watching
Speaker 2: you and in fact, I'm so happy to say to you,
Speaker 2: not only watching you, but marveling, going gosh. She think
Speaker 2: this perform is incredible.
Speaker 1: And it was so wild. That's so wild and such
Speaker 1: a huge compliment, Thank you.
Speaker 2: A massive compliment. There was something very significant about that
Speaker 2: stage show also for me in the audience.
Speaker 1: And everyone felt like that, you know, at different times.
Speaker 1: It was such a beautiful, vote heavy show because people
Speaker 1: did feel stuff themselves that they'd probably forgotten to like.
Speaker 1: It was such a connective piece of theater. You know,
Speaker 1: you selt what they selt. They saw what you saw.
Speaker 2: It was, Yeah, would you never know in the audience
Speaker 2: if it's just a really a remarkable cast doing remarkable things.
Speaker 2: But reading your book, it becomes apparent that there was
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff going on with the performers as well.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and with you.
Speaker 2: So you came to that production and this is what
Speaker 2: we all know of your life that you were with
Speaker 2: Cam who was in Rogue Traders with you. He was
Speaker 2: your husband, You had two beautiful kids. Oh you're still
Speaker 2: you're not. You've consciously uncoupled, but not legally.
Speaker 1: We still do gigs yeah all the time. Right yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so not still his husband, but still right.
Speaker 2: I was like, wait, what not his wife? You never
Speaker 2: were as.
Speaker 1: Shit? Someone put me to bed and so in.
Speaker 2: The process of that, and you had moved to the
Speaker 2: most significant thing that we're aware of in the you know,
Speaker 2: in that blur of what we know about celebrities, you know,
Speaker 2: through news or whatever. You had moved to Byron Bay
Speaker 2: a few years earlier.
Speaker 1: Which I loved. It was such an obviously significant move
Speaker 1: for all of us, but it was what we needed.
Speaker 2: And when you say it was what you needed as
Speaker 2: a family, what was.
Speaker 1: That, you know, it was just a sense. I mean personally,
Speaker 1: I really needed to ground myself. I feel like the
Speaker 1: life that we live is so flast case and you're here,
Speaker 1: there and everywhere. It's really hard to just stop and
Speaker 1: take stock of what is and isn't happening in your
Speaker 1: life and be together as a unit. Like Cam and
Speaker 1: I a couple of years before that were like where
Speaker 1: do we like, what are we doing? Like where do
Speaker 1: we want to be? And what do we want for
Speaker 1: our kids? Put like more importantly, you know, like what
Speaker 1: do we want for them? And we were looking at
Speaker 1: you know, it's that stage where you're looking at high
Speaker 1: schools and like what are they going to? What's the
Speaker 1: next part of the life for them? And it just
Speaker 1: didn't feel like it fits for either of us, even
Speaker 1: though I was the one that was like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I think we should go do this, and but ultimately
Speaker 1: it was Cam that made the decision. It went all right,
Speaker 1: let's go, let's sell the house, and I'm like, what
Speaker 1: we're doing this? And yeah, it was just a really
Speaker 1: nice shift in We were just so much more connected
Speaker 1: when we came up to Byron, you know you have
Speaker 1: more and thank goodness because it was we moved two
Speaker 1: months before COVID from Melbourne, so we missed that whole, like,
Speaker 1: you know, such gratitude because I, you know, my mental
Speaker 1: health hasn't been great on and off, like it's been
Speaker 1: amazing and it's been terrible. But I don't know if
Speaker 1: I would have handled that very well. It's not being
Speaker 1: outside or you know, being that contained. I think that
Speaker 1: might have sent me off with Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well there was there is a sense of people who
Speaker 2: injured those lockdowns in Melbourne being like crushed flowers.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I had two weeks in lockdown when I came
Speaker 1: back from New York, and yes, snowhere near as bad
Speaker 1: as so many people had it. But I need fresh air,
Speaker 1: like I feel very caged in, and so I got
Speaker 1: you know, we got thrown on this bus. I'm not thrown,
Speaker 1: but it felt like that there were, you know, soldiers
Speaker 1: and everything. It felt like I was a criminal and
Speaker 1: they put you on in the bus and they've got
Speaker 1: guns and they're like take you to this hotel. And
Speaker 1: it was the strangest thing, like I haven't done anything wrong.
Speaker 1: Why am I here? And then you're in this hotel
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's not a horrible hotel, but you're trying
Speaker 1: to a window for two weeks. I remember ringing or
Speaker 1: they would ring every day to ask if you had
Speaker 1: any symptoms, and then they'd be like, I said, I'm
Speaker 1: not doing so well. Okay, I'm really kind of freaking out,
Speaker 1: Like I'm feeling like I just need to get outside.
Speaker 1: Is there any way that I can just go take
Speaker 1: a big deep breath? And they're like no, unless you
Speaker 1: need an ambulance, you can't do that. It was really
Speaker 1: a very unraveling time, even just in that hotel room
Speaker 1: for two weeks.
Speaker 2: And who were you in lockdown?
Speaker 1: With other cast members like Leah Howard who was our
Speaker 1: associate director. I'm jagged, and also Peter Rutherford who's my
Speaker 1: musical director. So we all went over to America to
Speaker 1: learn the show. Because of COVID, they couldn't all come
Speaker 1: to Australia like they normally would, so it was a
Speaker 1: bit all over the place. But he was really confronting.
Speaker 1: And I never video really. I don't know people, you know,
Speaker 1: we all video ourselves, won't the Lafe's amazing, but like,
Speaker 1: never really video myself when I'm unraveling, and they're like,
Speaker 1: have this video of myself? Just kind of I watched
Speaker 1: it not that long ago, so I, oh, my god,
Speaker 1: that was at my headspace, Like I kind of looked
Speaker 1: really vacant, like it wasn't me. I wasn't there, So
Speaker 1: it was awful to watch.
Speaker 2: And do you think at the time that the unraveling, obviously,
Speaker 2: which was exacerbated by the lack of air and the
Speaker 2: confinement and the very strange times that we lived in,
Speaker 2: was there a sense that in your life there was
Speaker 2: an unraveling or a picking a part of the threads
Speaker 2: or things fraying? Then do you.
Speaker 1: Think, Yeah, I think in homesight, absolutely, but I don't
Speaker 1: think I realized it at the time.
Speaker 2: Because you talk about in your book, you talk about
Speaker 2: this euphoric I think it was at your your wrap drinks.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, where.
Speaker 2: You ended up dancing on a table.
Speaker 1: I always dance and you said, I mean it's been
Speaker 1: a while. I went, lie, you know that was my
Speaker 1: signature moves.
Speaker 2: Well, as long as as long as there were tables.
Speaker 2: But Peepe, who had worked on Jagged Little Pill, you
Speaker 2: said to them in the midst of this euphoria, tell
Speaker 2: me what you said.
Speaker 1: I said, if I wasn't married, i'd turned for you.
Speaker 1: Now this was about five or six years before Jagged
Speaker 1: Little Pill. And then I hardly saw that.
Speaker 2: Well, oh that's right, Yes it was Chicago.
Speaker 1: Was it not Chicago?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: And I only did like a month or something in
Speaker 1: the Brisbane season, and we hardly even spoke. It was
Speaker 1: the strangest thing. They were just very sweet. I remember
Speaker 1: that my grandma had passed away at the time, and
Speaker 1: it was I was really emotional because you know, the
Speaker 1: show must go on, but then life still goes on too,
Speaker 1: and death still goes on, so you have to manage
Speaker 1: those emotions. And pipp had bought me a little vegan chocolate,
Speaker 1: so I was veeking at time and just said, you know,
Speaker 1: times chocolates, see anything that can help in these moments.
Speaker 1: And I just thought, wow, that's so sweet. Times it like,
Speaker 1: we didn't hang out, we didn't have coffee, I did
Speaker 1: like nothing. It was the strangest thing. I think Casey
Speaker 1: Donovan and I were on a mission to like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, we were just being a little bit tissy
Speaker 1: at the time, because you hold yourself together doing these shows, right,
Speaker 1: and you have to I've got to be so you know, good,
Speaker 1: I don't drink, you've got a better you know all
Speaker 1: of that. But then at the end you're like, all right,
Speaker 1: give me a table. I don't ready to like let
Speaker 1: it all lose. So it was the It was the
Speaker 1: stranger at the time, but clearly now in hindsight even stranger.
Speaker 2: Well, because sometimes I think you have those connections with
Speaker 2: people and they don't necessarily evolve into something else, and
Speaker 2: often they're more reflective of what's going on with you.
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? You see something in
Speaker 2: that person and it's about you.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You and Pip. Yeah, cross paths again, Dean, As you
Speaker 2: said four or five years later on Jag a Little Pill. Yeah,
Speaker 2: well they were the stage manager.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they only did the second again. It was a
Speaker 1: bit like Chicago, you know, we'd done like the whole
Speaker 1: country or whatever wherever we went, and then Brisbane was
Speaker 1: the last bit, and same with Jagged. I think we
Speaker 1: did Sydney, then we went to Melbourne and went back
Speaker 1: to Sydney. So before the full unraveling, I think I
Speaker 1: knew them for three weeks, which flows my mind even
Speaker 1: to this day. I'm like, that's so strange.
Speaker 2: When you say the full unraveling. What did the full
Speaker 2: unraveling look like?
Speaker 1: Well, honestly, it's so I feel like it sounds so strange.
Speaker 1: But that night on stage when I sang Forgiven, I'm
Speaker 1: standing there and like every night I would, I mean,
Speaker 1: you saw it, you know, like I don't know what
Speaker 1: night you saw, but this show really like I really
Speaker 1: immersed myself into this role and it was weird because
Speaker 1: you're not that role. But then things start overlapping and
Speaker 1: things start going, oh that's me. Oh wow. I didn't
Speaker 1: think I even I didn't even think I even took
Speaker 1: the role for me. I thought I took it for
Speaker 1: my manager who had passedway, which the whole other story,
Speaker 1: but I was like, oh, I think I need to
Speaker 1: do this for him. You know, the unraveling to me
Speaker 1: was standing there singing Forgiven. I felt you for it
Speaker 1: on that stage, on that Second Life opening night, I
Speaker 1: felt free, I felt seen that, I felt exposed, and
Speaker 1: I felt wow. But I felt like it was such
Speaker 1: a contradiction of life, like everything that was going on
Speaker 1: for me. I think I fell to the ground, tears
Speaker 1: fell down my face. I mean that was pretty standard.
Speaker 1: I did that most nights, and I think I'm sure
Speaker 1: I wrote that in the book where you know you
Speaker 1: just immerse yourself. But I just walked off stage and
Speaker 1: I it was like there was no one else so strange.
Speaker 1: It was like there was no one else around, but
Speaker 1: yet everyone was there. It was just like this feeling
Speaker 1: of there's no going back, and I still didn't even
Speaker 1: know what that meant. It was just like this right.
Speaker 1: I felt like my manager whod passed away, was like
Speaker 1: in me or around me, or supporting me, but yet
Speaker 1: everyone was watching that unraveling, Like I felt like the
Speaker 1: audience were there witnessing me just being raw and exposed
Speaker 1: for the first time in such a long time. You know,
Speaker 1: I turned fifty last year, so it was close to
Speaker 1: my fiftieth birthday a couple of years before. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't feel like I've ever really immersed myself into
Speaker 1: something creatively as much as that show, and I do
Speaker 1: believe in it was the right time. Maybe it was.
Speaker 1: It was the constant reliving and telling of this story
Speaker 1: of abuse and gender identity and sexuality and whatever that
Speaker 1: we all in the cast were like feeling and thinking
Speaker 1: night after night that that was the moment that I
Speaker 1: was like, whoa, I just felt changed and it was
Speaker 1: really hard to understand what. And then obviously later on
Speaker 1: in that night when I had this like it was
Speaker 1: like I was so high and I wasn't high, but
Speaker 1: I had this like high and it was very weird.
Speaker 1: It was very unusual, and I just yeah, I had
Speaker 1: this electricity. It was like electricity through my body and
Speaker 1: we weren't touching. It was like a magnet, you know
Speaker 1: where there's this like oh like it was like that.
Speaker 1: And I remember turning to fifth and I think you
Speaker 1: need to go, and they went, yeah, it was so weird.
Speaker 2: They felt it also, Yeah, yeah weird. After a short break,
Speaker 2: we'll be back with more of my conversation with Natalie
Speaker 2: bassing Through. You were so consumed, at once consumed and
Speaker 2: at once projecting this extraordinary energy field that was happening
Speaker 2: to you. How did you look to Pip who was
Speaker 2: watching you night after night on stage but also seeing
Speaker 2: you seeing you backstage.
Speaker 1: I don't know, that's probably a question. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Have you ever discussed.
Speaker 1: I told them, like, after that night happened. The next morning,
Speaker 1: I rang my friend and went, I need a therapist.
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened last night. Like between you
Speaker 1: would think that it was like a big weekend bender
Speaker 1: on drugs or something like. It was like that. It
Speaker 1: was like a out of body something that I went with,
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't even Yeah, So I did their
Speaker 1: therapy first, and then I think I was at home
Speaker 1: for a few days, and then I came back to
Speaker 1: the show and that's right, and we went out on
Speaker 1: the Thursday night and I was telling him about how
Speaker 1: I was feeling, just going, I don't know what happened.
Speaker 1: So yes, we have discussed what I felt happened on
Speaker 1: the stage. And I'm quite a spiritual. My kids folk
Speaker 1: on me woo person. Kip's not like that. So they're like, well,
Speaker 1: this is strange, and I'm like, I know, but they
Speaker 1: also very beautiful and supportive and open that they just
Speaker 1: listened to me going, I mean I even after that night,
Speaker 1: I couldn't let my husband touch me. And he never
Speaker 1: touched me after that night ever again. We never kissed
Speaker 1: ever again. It was so bizarre for him and me.
Speaker 2: And yes, because you wrote in the book you said,
Speaker 2: why can't I be around masculine energy anymore? And this
Speaker 2: returned to Byron with your husband, the father of your children,
Speaker 2: with whom you'd built this beautiful, loving life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, nothing like I couldn't you know, he would try
Speaker 1: and reach out or everything in my body said no,
Speaker 1: don't touch me everything. And so then it became the
Speaker 1: unraveling of what has just happened to me? What has
Speaker 1: just gone on? And I had like, you know, therapy
Speaker 1: on my own, and then Cam and I were like,
Speaker 1: we need therapy together because why all the feelings? Why
Speaker 1: don't know? Don't I want you to be near me?
Speaker 1: Like yeah, So it was a massive process of trying
Speaker 1: to understand all of that.
Speaker 2: And also for him so hurtful.
Speaker 1: Absolutely like he's like, where's my wife gone? And every
Speaker 1: time he said that, it was like my body froze
Speaker 1: and went even the word wife was I didn't like it.
Speaker 1: My body was like, don't call me that and I
Speaker 1: didn't say that, but everything in my body was like,
Speaker 1: I don't. I didn't like the ownership. I didn't like
Speaker 1: the the size of him, Like he felt very big
Speaker 1: and scary. And one night I think I told him
Speaker 1: that he was terrifying and he's like, me terrifying, that's crazy,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, that's how I felt.
Speaker 2: And then he said to you, are you a lesbian?
Speaker 1: Yeah? And you said I couldn't say anything. Nothing came
Speaker 1: out of my mouth because I was like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: am I like, how can I had like a chemical
Speaker 1: reaction to somebody and not like I just didn't know
Speaker 1: how to answer it. And also to hear that come
Speaker 1: out of his mouth out of nowhere was not so bizarre,
Speaker 1: you know. I don't think a single word came out
Speaker 1: of my mouth. I was just sitting in the corner like, yeah.
Speaker 2: And you speak very beautifully about him in the book,
Speaker 2: and what strikes me having read it is that he
Speaker 2: had to both of you had to do this, really,
Speaker 2: I guess, find the way in which you loved each
Speaker 2: other outside of that relationship that you had had as
Speaker 2: husband and wife.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's still a daily thing, you know, it's
Speaker 1: not like. The thing is I never fell out of
Speaker 1: love with Cam. That's the weird thing because that's not
Speaker 1: what happened. You know, Like you hear these stories, they're
Speaker 1: like I'm over them or him or her or whatever,
Speaker 1: and then I'm looking or I'm like that wasn't that
Speaker 1: wasn't our story. None of that happened. It was just
Speaker 1: this night on stage, this thing afterwards, and then like
Speaker 1: what and then the not being able to be held,
Speaker 1: touch nurtured by him, men masculine. That was the That
Speaker 1: was the unraveling of like why, And I have more
Speaker 1: of an understanding of it now, but it's still bizarre.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course because before that, and also before Cam,
Speaker 2: you'd been you'd been married already to a guy. You'd
Speaker 2: had him, an affair that you speak about very honestly
Speaker 2: when you were nineteen. He was in his fifties. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you had been an unquestioning I guess, an unquestioning woman
Speaker 2: who went out with and fell in love.
Speaker 1: With me totally. It wasn't even an until I mean,
Speaker 1: like kids, the thing, I've always thought women are beautiful, Yes,
Speaker 1: doesn't everyone like.
Speaker 2: You know, well, we are everyone we are We were not.
Speaker 1: Kid but I've had amazing relationships with men. I've been
Speaker 1: in love with men, so that's not a question either.
Speaker 1: But it was very suddenly, I can't have you touch
Speaker 1: me anymore, or I can't It's like not even a kiss, nothing,
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. And the whole body said, no.
Speaker 2: What did he do during that process? Like you were
Speaker 2: trying to sort stuff out? Obviously he was trying to
Speaker 2: store sort stuff out, and you've got two dearly loved children.
Speaker 1: I mean he was unraveling the poor man's like where
Speaker 1: like you know, like you said, where's my wife? And
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know, I don't know. And I'm
Speaker 1: not the same person. I see, I'm the same person,
Speaker 1: but I'm so the way that I speak, the way
Speaker 1: that I speak up, the way that i've I'm different.
Speaker 1: I never did that. I kind of not that. I
Speaker 1: it was quiet. I'm allowed human.
Speaker 2: But you're also very good at playing roles.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope so like in real life. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I've done it a long time, right, and I
Speaker 1: think it's hard to make sense of that part of it, honestly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I get to in my creative world deep dive into
Speaker 1: other people's lives that may be some somehow that is
Speaker 1: avoidant of self.
Speaker 2: But at some stage also because your life is and
Speaker 2: your work is for the public, the public have an
Speaker 2: appetite to know about people that they are interested in.
Speaker 2: So then you had to bring this to the public
Speaker 2: or it was voisted upon you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was so incredibly emotional on so many levels
Speaker 1: because I think I was still figuring out, like what
Speaker 1: the hell was going on? You know, I was still
Speaker 1: unraveling in my own time with my family unit trying
Speaker 1: to make sense of that. You know, to feel like
Speaker 1: that it could be public knowledge or scrutinized or degraded
Speaker 1: or anything felt debilitating and solacious.
Speaker 2: It's very salacious.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it felt silatious and it felt I think one
Speaker 1: thing that's triggered me a lot is having people do
Speaker 1: things for those reasons, and I'm not that person, Like
Speaker 1: I'm like, treat people with love and kindness. Like we
Speaker 1: all have stuff, we all have baggage, we're all not
Speaker 1: you know, we all make mistakes, and do you know what.
Speaker 1: I think that is one of the reasons why in
Speaker 1: the end, I was like, I'm ready to tell my
Speaker 1: story and I'm not embarrassed about the really things that
Speaker 1: once upon a time I was so ashamed of or
Speaker 1: it started to make sense to me after this period
Speaker 1: in my life where I'm like, oh my god, this
Speaker 1: is where I'm at and it's okay. You know, social
Speaker 1: media is so like I'm perfect, everything's perfect, Like, actually,
Speaker 1: no one's life is perfect, and I think it does
Speaker 1: help people when you share that. It's scary, it's really scary,
Speaker 1: but it's also I mean, look, who knows books about
Speaker 1: to come out. Probably yeah, people like you know, but
Speaker 1: it felt for the first time in my life. I'm
Speaker 1: okay to say it because after doing so much therapy,
Speaker 1: all of those things that happened have led me to
Speaker 1: this space and I feel like I am personally so happy,
Speaker 1: like full of joy. I'm completely tired and do weary,
Speaker 1: its because it happens to stop working a million hours.
Speaker 1: But my kids are a man amazing, My relationship is amazing.
Speaker 1: My work stuff is just so great. You know. My
Speaker 1: relationship with my ex is pretty darn good considering all
Speaker 1: that's happened. And that's that's a privilege.
Speaker 2: Well, like you said, you're touring together too, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: which is I can't even imagine how how that is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, touring with someone that you're
Speaker 1: together with or not can be challenging at the best
Speaker 1: of time. But we spend a lot of time working
Speaker 1: out how to be in this next phase, you know,
Speaker 1: and we had great mediator sessions with this incredible woman
Speaker 1: who it wasn't really about money or assets or anything
Speaker 1: like that at this point. It was like, how do
Speaker 1: we be how do we do this next bit? And
Speaker 1: for the cure to be okay that was the biggest
Speaker 1: priority for us. And she got the white bought out.
Speaker 1: She's like, where do you what are your kids like?
Speaker 1: And what do you want for them? Do you want
Speaker 1: them to go to UNI or do you want them?
Speaker 1: And we both will look at each other and we
Speaker 1: want we just want them to be happy. And they said, well,
Speaker 1: she said, well what does that look like? And we said, well,
Speaker 1: I guess you know, if we're happy, they're happy. And
Speaker 1: that is the truth with kids, you know, we if
Speaker 1: we can be okay with each other, then they're going
Speaker 1: to be great. The definitely the family unit. I think
Speaker 1: that was the hardest thing for all of us, and
Speaker 1: the thing that I just kept fighting against being in
Speaker 1: this space of true self love to sacrifice that for
Speaker 1: everyone else. Like that was the fight of like, I
Speaker 1: can't do this, but everything in my body and mind
Speaker 1: was saying, you have no choice. This is this. You
Speaker 1: can't not be yourself and teach your children like your
Speaker 1: children need to know that you have to take care
Speaker 1: of yourself in every way I think, and yes, we
Speaker 1: all make sacrifices, but for your kids to see you
Speaker 1: truly happy is pretty important. I think.
Speaker 2: We'll take a quick break now, but do not go anywhere,
Speaker 2: because there's much more from Natalie Bassingthwaite coming up. When
Speaker 2: you were having those conversations with the kids, which I
Speaker 2: gather you and Cam had tried to insulate yourself a
Speaker 2: little bit to you to get a sense of even
Speaker 2: for each other, what was going on. Yeah, but when
Speaker 2: you had to bring the children in to the conversation, Yeah,
Speaker 2: how was that and how did you approach that?
Speaker 1: It was really hard? But Harper had heard a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff, because you know, when you're going through some
Speaker 1: pretty heavy stuff, you overhear things.
Speaker 2: How old was she then?
Speaker 1: What was it four years ago? Did'tven what you are?
Speaker 1: What's regular? Yeah? Twenty twenty two, so she was twelve
Speaker 1: and she was just insanely incredible. You know. She asked me,
Speaker 1: are you a lesbian? And I was like, whoa that
Speaker 1: question again? Yeah, and again I didn't even know how
Speaker 1: to answer. I was like, I don't even know, Like
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, at that stage, I just
Speaker 1: had the moment on stage, that feeling after of that electricity,
Speaker 1: and then the what is going on with my life?
Speaker 1: Like what are these feelings? And also the separation from
Speaker 1: him as well, like it was just the full like
Speaker 1: all of that was going on. So when she said that,
Speaker 1: I was like, I have no clue what's going on.
Speaker 1: So I had to just be honest and say I
Speaker 1: don't know, and then I think. And it was another
Speaker 1: time when she was talking about something else with it,
Speaker 1: and I just said, I just don't want you to
Speaker 1: be embarrassed or ashamed of me, and she just looked
Speaker 1: at me and helped me, and she said, I'd never
Speaker 1: be embarrassed or ashamed of you as fike. M yeah,
Speaker 1: m hmm, pretty amazing.
Speaker 2: Mmm, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's that's the fear, you know, in life
Speaker 1: as well, like in the media of like mm hmm,
Speaker 1: I thought I'd lose all my jobs, my endorsements, my hmm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is the nature of the work that
Speaker 2: you do is that it's at once professional but also
Speaker 2: deeply personal. Yeah, so to to reveal the most personal.
Speaker 1: Aspects of your it's really scary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's scary. It's very a word that's overused, but
Speaker 2: it is brave, it's courageous because.
Speaker 1: We know we didn't feel like that.
Speaker 2: No, Well, you had this compulsion that you couldn't you know,
Speaker 2: you the wind was at your back, You couldn't turn
Speaker 2: around and walk back into that wind. You were really
Speaker 2: being blown into uncharted waters.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's totally what it felt like. I'm like, what
Speaker 1: it was? The full unraveling of everything that I've known
Speaker 1: so far in my life?
Speaker 2: And then how was pit while this process was going on?
Speaker 2: They sound like they're a very patient person, whereas you
Speaker 2: don't strike me as particularly patient, do you know what
Speaker 2: they just?
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think either of us knew what
Speaker 1: it was. So it wasn't like we weren't in relationship.
Speaker 1: We were just like what was that? What was that electricity?
Speaker 1: It was so them, you know, doing JAG A little
Speaker 1: pill two was an opening for themselves to understand themselves
Speaker 1: as well. Like before that they identified as she her,
Speaker 1: and then that show they were like, Oh, I think
Speaker 1: this is me. I think I'm non binary. How do
Speaker 1: you feel about that? And I was like, you have
Speaker 1: to be you whatever that is, no matter what you know.
Speaker 1: And that was not us in relationship. That was us
Speaker 1: friendship and just trying to both I think both things
Speaker 1: were happening for us individually also collectively at the same time.
Speaker 1: You know, I was like, who am I and what
Speaker 1: is all this about? And they're like, who am I?
Speaker 1: And what is all this about? That they you know,
Speaker 1: we didn't speak for weeks because yeah, he said, you know,
Speaker 1: do I feelings to someone? And I said yeah, and
Speaker 1: he said is it a woman? And I said yes,
Speaker 1: and he I think we were. I think it's the
Speaker 1: first time I said it, and it was freaky to
Speaker 1: say it, and then once it's out of your mouth,
Speaker 1: you can't take it back. But I still didn't understand
Speaker 1: what it meant at that time, but I went yeah,
Speaker 1: and of course, you know, he was horrified and angry
Speaker 1: and scared. I'm sure, and yeah, then it was the
Speaker 1: trying to nut out what to do about it.
Speaker 2: You also say something that will resonate with so many
Speaker 2: people who have seen the end, the collapse of what
Speaker 2: was their unit, their family unit. You said, I'd never
Speaker 2: realized how much identity hides in routine until it was gone.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: That gives me goosebumps actually, because there's so much about
Speaker 2: the you know, chop would carry water, normal thing.
Speaker 1: The day to day, Yes, the day to day. It's
Speaker 1: getting up. Who does the right first? Who does the theirs?
Speaker 1: Were used to drive, that's it. You used to drive
Speaker 1: to you know, school, pie c up and drop off.
Speaker 1: And yeah, that stuff is hard to not have anymore,
Speaker 1: that family unit, Christmases, birthdays, you know, mm hmm. It's sacrifice,
Speaker 1: h it's yeah. I mean, I think the scary thing
Speaker 1: is to not feel selfish by being who you know
Speaker 1: is the right thing, the right youth.
Speaker 2: That's a very interesting situation because and a conundrum because
Speaker 2: it is selfish. Yeah, it's purely selfish in the sense
Speaker 2: that it's about yourself. Yeah, and yet you have to
Speaker 2: mess to gate that against love and duty and honor
Speaker 2: and commitment and promises made, yes, but mostly to yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's the hardest thing, is to blame yourself.
Speaker 2: And did you do that?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, a lot. But I still didn't really understand
Speaker 1: why how when, like I said, I didn't go out searching.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like everything was so shit that I was like,
Speaker 1: all right about none of that happened. It wasn't that story,
Speaker 1: So it didn't really make sense.
Speaker 2: So now with the clarity and wisdom of hindsight, in
Speaker 2: that moment where you were bridling against Cam using the
Speaker 2: word wife, that was almost it sounds like almost an instinct.
Speaker 2: Did you know did you know in those moments that
Speaker 2: there was a finality to it or did you still
Speaker 2: think that you would be able to therapy or navigate
Speaker 2: your way out of it and back into what had
Speaker 2: been normal.
Speaker 1: I didn't know there was a finality to it at all.
Speaker 1: I didn't have a clue what was going on at
Speaker 1: that time. I just knew that I couldn't let him
Speaker 1: physically be near me. And the hindsight stuff came with
Speaker 1: lots of therapy, lots of unraveling of masculine I feel
Speaker 1: like there's been a lot of stuff that's happened to
Speaker 1: me over my life with different men that have felt
Speaker 1: really controlling and manipulatives, and I've never felt that with Can.
Speaker 1: That was the weirdest thing, but it's almost like he
Speaker 1: had to bear the brunt of everyone else in that moment,
Speaker 1: and like he would say to me, it feels like
Speaker 1: you're treating me like I've over abused you. That's what
Speaker 1: he would say to me, and I'm like, I know
Speaker 1: you haven't, but when everything in my body feels the same,
Speaker 1: it's very.
Speaker 2: Odd in that moment when someone that you love is
Speaker 2: hurting so much.
Speaker 1: Yes, but you don't.
Speaker 2: Have the vocabulary or the understanding to even know what's
Speaker 2: going on with yourself. Yeah, could you comfort him?
Speaker 1: Or oh yeah, I think I think we both through
Speaker 1: it all. We're trying so hard to comfort each other,
Speaker 1: but it would be oscillate between that and anger clearly
Speaker 1: fair enough. Yeah, I asked me if you'd be in
Speaker 1: a polyamorous relationship and I was like, even, na, Like
Speaker 1: I don't even know if I could do that, but
Speaker 1: it just made no sense of how to make it
Speaker 1: just didn't make sense sense. He's like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I see so much with you, with the world I'm
Speaker 1: not going to share. And I was like, yeah, fair enough,
Speaker 1: Like saying probably wouldn't work for me either, but it
Speaker 1: just just trying to make sense of it. We were
Speaker 1: we tried to do all the things the therapist eventually said,
Speaker 1: because I didn't speak to Pit for a while, and
Speaker 1: then the therapist said, maybe you need maybe Natalie needs
Speaker 1: to see it. And Cam's like, oh bloody, you know,
Speaker 1: like really and yeah. I ultimately after liked I think
Speaker 1: a week or whatever, I just it just didn't sit
Speaker 1: well with me. I'm like, I don't no, That's not
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to do here. That's I'm just going,
Speaker 1: how can I have such a physical spiritual electrical reaction
Speaker 1: and go, oh, well, I don't know what that was,
Speaker 1: like what is that? And or so side by side,
Speaker 1: not wanting any physical or anything with that, Like, I
Speaker 1: just none of it made sense to me. I didn't
Speaker 1: need to see them again to know that I'd had
Speaker 1: that feeling. We did have stuff that wasn't perfect, like
Speaker 1: any relations HyET, but I think I was so guarded
Speaker 1: that I kind of didn't see a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1: I didn't really I wasn't really fully allowing all of
Speaker 1: it in because I was so shut down, I think.
Speaker 2: And exactly that point that you make about you know, identity,
Speaker 2: hiding in routine.
Speaker 1: In routine and just and keeping quiet, I think I
Speaker 1: learned for a long time to keep quiet or be small,
Speaker 1: because that would be better off for everyone.
Speaker 2: And you are small but mighty correct.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, mm.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, Oh Jesus, it's amazing, it's really amazing.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be one of the people that's
Speaker 2: underestimated you. But I think I've underestimated you. Oh not not,
Speaker 2: you know, just because there's so much to you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And of course we couldn't know that. We couldn't know.
Speaker 1: You couldn't know because I kept the facade so great.
Speaker 1: It was like, but I think we all do that.
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm special in that regard.
Speaker 2: No, but you forget you're a good actor. You're a
Speaker 2: very good actor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know what, I'm a terrible liar. This
Speaker 1: is the funny. Yeah, me too, Like I am the
Speaker 1: worst liar, Like like my kids go, you can't lie.
Speaker 1: I'm like own, like I feel like I can once
Speaker 1: I'm in a character here I can deep dive, but
Speaker 1: in real life, like yes, here it is you know
Speaker 1: especially now, like I can't. You can't hide once once
Speaker 1: that's the walls are broken down. It's it's real or
Speaker 1: real or nothing.
Speaker 2: You know, you know how you said that you're worried
Speaker 2: about your work and your endorsements or whatever. That didn't happen.
Speaker 2: In fact, no, in fact, you've never been more in demand,
Speaker 2: it would say.
Speaker 1: I feel. You know, what I feel is that I
Speaker 1: feel because I'm so connected to myself, I'm not afraid
Speaker 1: to be so open or raw or real or I
Speaker 1: don't think I had a choice on stage that night.
Speaker 1: It just was. It just happened. It was the culmination
Speaker 1: of the show, but also my life lived to that point.
Speaker 1: I don't think that I had a choice, but ultimately
Speaker 1: I did have to choose, didn't I.
Speaker 2: And your work has continued to flourish.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think because I'm like, I've just been
Speaker 1: doing this film and I like it's my first like
Speaker 1: big lead role in a film, and I feel I'm
Speaker 1: really proud of myself. Like years ago, I film it's
Speaker 1: called Love, Wine and Valentine, and I just did the
Speaker 1: play Shirly Valentine at one mom play and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, all this like synergy and like I'm like,
Speaker 1: how strange that, you know? And initially the director wanted
Speaker 1: me to play the role of Valentine, and I'm like hilarious,
Speaker 1: that's funny. And then she came to see me in
Speaker 1: the play and went, oh my god, I think you're
Speaker 1: the lead role. I think you're Sophie. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: what I think it's because I'm so connected to myself
Speaker 1: that I'm just so open now and I and I
Speaker 1: don't I don't hate myself, you know, I look at
Speaker 1: myself now and go, go you. You are talented, and
Speaker 1: there's been times where I've not felt.
Speaker 2: That, which I find amazing. I find that extraordinary having.
Speaker 2: But I do think there's a tendency sometimes to take
Speaker 2: people for granted, and particularly you know, you came to
Speaker 2: public attention in neighbors. I think there's a real tendency
Speaker 2: in this country, not overseas so much, I don't think,
Speaker 2: but to go, oh, well, they're just from neighbors. On
Speaker 2: now she wants to be a singer. Ah, Now she's
Speaker 2: been cast in his without recognizing what your origin story
Speaker 2: as an artist was. That from when you were a
Speaker 2: little girl in Woollongong, you've been singing and dancing and
Speaker 2: you're a proper triple threat. So now you've been cast
Speaker 2: this year is a great year for you.
Speaker 1: It's so strange, like lead role in a movie, lead
Speaker 1: role in a musical. I'm about to do Waitress a musical,
Speaker 1: which is just so exciting. I love the show so much. Yes,
Speaker 1: and got to see it in New York when I
Speaker 1: was doing Jagged, So there's all this like as well.
Speaker 2: When you were watching it, did you ever think I
Speaker 2: will play that role?
Speaker 1: When I watched it, I was in the audience with
Speaker 1: Leah again, Leah the associate director, and Ruby Rose, and
Speaker 1: the three of us were all very well. Ruby and
Speaker 1: I were clients of Mark, my manager who passed away,
Speaker 1: and Leah was a very good friend. Slash worked with
Speaker 1: Mark a lot. We all watched it and we left
Speaker 1: the theater. I think my jaws on the ground going.
Speaker 1: I said, I think that's one of the best shows
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. That's a big statement because I've seen
Speaker 1: a lot of great shows. But it was just it
Speaker 1: was a human story. It was so real. The music's incredible,
Speaker 1: like Sarah Brarellis's music is just like oh, and it
Speaker 1: just spoke to me and I was just like, gosh,
Speaker 1: if that show ever comes to Australia, I need to
Speaker 1: play Jenner. And yeah, I auditioned for it and three
Speaker 1: months later got the role.
Speaker 2: So it was a lot right and now, of course,
Speaker 2: because Jenna in the in the story is late twenties,
Speaker 2: I know, right, okay.
Speaker 1: Hight, okay, I'm late twenties right. Well, I know there
Speaker 1: was a bit of backlash about that apparently, Yes, I
Speaker 1: was too old.
Speaker 2: Yes, when you got cast. Yeah, And I'm not suggesting
Speaker 2: that the onus is on the person that gets cast.
Speaker 2: To go, hang on a minute, you know, shouldn't you
Speaker 2: be looking at twenty year olds for this? But did
Speaker 2: it occur to you at any point as you're going
Speaker 2: through the audition process and these are rigorous processes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very much.
Speaker 2: So did you at any point think did you litigate
Speaker 2: against yourself? In other words, did you think I'm not
Speaker 2: I can't get this role because of age.
Speaker 1: When I first was thinking about going for it. Definitely
Speaker 1: that enters your mind, Like I was like, if they
Speaker 1: even would consider me, you know, But it's just so fascinating.
Speaker 1: I feel like the ageism thing happens with other women.
Speaker 1: I think that's what was the strangest thing with this show.
Speaker 1: When I finally got it, She's too old, like da
Speaker 1: da da, And I'm like, actually, escap can you need
Speaker 1: to have experience to put these roles life experience, and
Speaker 1: I have that. I know these stories. I feel like
Speaker 1: I can dive into that, and I think it says
Speaker 1: a lot about I mean, when people are negative about
Speaker 1: these things, I think, you know, it did hurt as well,
Speaker 1: like oh wow, okay, yeah, okay, I am old and
Speaker 1: I'm also young. You know, somehow it says a lot
Speaker 1: about other people. I think in the end, I have
Speaker 1: to look at it like that. I think that we
Speaker 1: should all be able to immerse ourselves into whatever you're
Speaker 1: not going to get. Put it this way, They're not
Speaker 1: going to give me the role for the sake of it.
Speaker 1: Like the process that has to happen to get a
Speaker 1: role like this is all the Australian producers and the
Speaker 1: American producers. Sarah Burellis is an independent you know, her
Speaker 1: own artist in her own right, and she's also done it,
Speaker 1: so everyone has to say. Yeah. So when people are,
Speaker 1: you know, bagging you or the choice, you're not only
Speaker 1: bagging me, but you're bagging the creators who have made
Speaker 1: the choice. And it's like, you know, they would never
Speaker 1: just chuck someone in it. They need it to work
Speaker 1: for themselves as well, so.
Speaker 2: And on your behalf, I did bridle at the term
Speaker 2: stunt casting, which implie, yeah, that's crazy because neither you
Speaker 2: nor Rob Wills are stunt casting. What you are is.
Speaker 1: Better in a long time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's correct.
Speaker 1: They didn't.
Speaker 2: You just didn't just pop up on you know, instat.
Speaker 1: And it's a big show, like like you have to vocally,
Speaker 1: it's a really big but the acting in this show
Speaker 1: is really important because it is a musical theater show,
Speaker 1: so that makes you feel like everything's a bit over
Speaker 1: the top, but this show is like really earnest and
Speaker 1: really you can't not be real in this. So they
Speaker 1: needed someone who I guess wasn't too musical theater, but
Speaker 1: maybe he's done some musical theater. It's a bit far's like,
Speaker 1: it was very specific, I think what they wanted, and
Speaker 1: I didn't know whether I would be that right person,
Speaker 1: But after about three months of you know, proving that
Speaker 1: I was, it ended up happening.
Speaker 2: So I don't know if you have an answer to this,
Speaker 2: but I think for a lot of people it's the times,
Speaker 2: as we know, are confusing, right, So we live in
Speaker 2: an era in which non binary roles can only be
Speaker 2: played by non binary people or people of color, you know,
Speaker 2: not about us without us. So then in theater, if
Speaker 2: there's a twenty nine year old role or however old,
Speaker 2: the role is being played by a woman who's a
Speaker 2: couple of decades older than that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds very do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like how people are like, how does that work? Then?
Speaker 1: Does it?
Speaker 2: Does it not apply to age or does it only
Speaker 2: apply to color and gender or whatever?
Speaker 1: It is? Confusing? I agree with you, like, I don't
Speaker 1: know what the right or wrongs thing is in that space.
Speaker 1: Do we only do that or do we not? I
Speaker 1: can only say, oh, this such and such excites me.
Speaker 1: You know. I was asked if I was interested in
Speaker 1: the role, and I was like, hell, yes. And I
Speaker 1: don't want to do a lot of theater these days
Speaker 1: because as a parent, it's really time consuming. It has
Speaker 1: to be something that really speaks to me. And this
Speaker 1: show really spoke to me. Yeah, I mean there was
Speaker 1: an article written about me the other day. You'd find
Speaker 1: this fascon eating too, and it was I don't know
Speaker 1: how long ago, but it was like half the peede
Speaker 1: into paper and all the things that I'm doing at
Speaker 1: the moment, which was exciting, But the headline was NAT's
Speaker 1: fifty did And I'm like, isn't that fascinating? Men never
Speaker 1: get that? Blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: No, that's true.
Speaker 1: Yes, why is it? And I'm proud of being fifty.
Speaker 1: I love it, like I'm in my element, I'm feeling joy.
Speaker 1: I'm more content internally externally like all the things. But
Speaker 1: I'm like, why does it need to be a headline
Speaker 1: about my age or our age? As women then never
Speaker 1: have that?
Speaker 2: Well, there is a lot of curiosity. Is too mild
Speaker 2: a word? There's an obsession with women and how we
Speaker 2: age and how we look and how we navigate those things.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and is I think almost an impatience for
Speaker 2: people to embrace old age a certain way so then
Speaker 2: you can be relegated.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And also I guess there was a time where
Speaker 1: women weren't doing all of these amazing things that we
Speaker 1: have the opportunities for now. We just weren't and we
Speaker 1: weren't seem to be as important, you know, And I
Speaker 1: think that's changed.
Speaker 2: Whereas now we live in the times and at bass
Speaker 2: where a beautiful woman can get down on one knee
Speaker 2: at Niagara Falls and propose to the person she loves. Correct.
Speaker 1: I never thought that would I never thought that was
Speaker 1: to be on my dingo card. There k.
Speaker 2: So there will be another wedding.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I know. I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: want to get you know, I mean, of course there will.
Speaker 1: Like I've met this person who has not made me
Speaker 1: not shape. Like what's the word I'm trying to find?
Speaker 1: Just I feel like my most real self in every way,
Speaker 1: like the good bits, the bad bits, Like I'm so
Speaker 1: vulnerable with Pip and vice versa. You know, like we
Speaker 1: allow each other the space I hate that word allowed
Speaker 1: to Like we're giving commis, you know, we give each
Speaker 1: other the space to navigate ourselves and we're just there
Speaker 1: with each other, like what do you need? What do
Speaker 1: you need? Like one thing that I love is like
Speaker 1: it's because we've both got really busy work lives and stuff.
Speaker 1: We go, hey, I really need you right now to
Speaker 1: have capacity for this. And that's been our new little
Speaker 1: because sometimes you're like, and I'm telling you to women,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of conversations, there's a lot of emotions, a.
Speaker 2: Lot of carps of tea, a lot of carts of tea.
Speaker 1: Communication, which is beautiful. But I'm like, sometimes you have
Speaker 1: to actually say do you have capacity for this today?
Speaker 1: And I think any relationship, it's such a beautiful thing
Speaker 1: to say when you have fuzzy lives instead of like
Speaker 1: about all this on for you when you're in the
Speaker 1: middle of something and you're like, oh, you know, it's
Speaker 1: just it's just such a beautiful thing. And to be
Speaker 1: supported in anything and everything that I do and vice versa.
Speaker 1: We just we have each other's back in the most
Speaker 1: beautiful way.
Speaker 2: Does the wedding have a shape yet or not yet?
Speaker 1: Gosh, not yet? No, Like I would be just as
Speaker 1: happy with like a picnic or something, you know, but
Speaker 1: I think you know, so if it's so, it's such
Speaker 1: a special thing for them, and that has made it
Speaker 1: really special for me. Whereas before I was like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm clearly not good at this marriage thing, not for me,
Speaker 1: never going to do it again.
Speaker 2: Well, I actually think you. I think you were really
Speaker 2: good at that marriage thing until you.
Speaker 1: Yet until I will yeah maybe, yeah, I mean you
Speaker 1: know what we we were together seventeen years will be bad.
Speaker 1: And I think that is the mistake that a lot
Speaker 1: of people do say as well as like it was
Speaker 1: a failure it was this. It's like, actually I think
Speaker 1: it was a success. We have two sabulous kids, Like
Speaker 1: they're so amazing, and we we have a I think
Speaker 1: if you evolve, you evolve, and we've been able to
Speaker 1: evolve together even though we're not together.
Speaker 2: And the measure of I think the measure of the
Speaker 2: success of any relationship is how loved you are. And
Speaker 2: this guy is still thumping the tubs for you on tour,
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean, Like, that's quite extraordinary.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, he's been relationships since as well, and
Speaker 1: like we just have each other's back. I think that's
Speaker 1: the most important thing. It doesn't you know. Don't get
Speaker 1: me wrong. It's not all like you know, roses and whatever.
Speaker 1: It's not perfect all the time.
Speaker 2: No, no, I don't. I don't imagine it to be roses,
Speaker 2: to be honest, I really don't. Round incredibly difficult.
Speaker 1: But we've managed to. And it's not just Canon myself,
Speaker 1: it's also Peep as well, and it's also the kids.
Speaker 1: Like everyone's made sacrifices in this space.
Speaker 2: If you project yourself into the future, even a couple
Speaker 2: of years, what does it look like, What does bass
Speaker 2: look like? Or Natalie bassing Thwaite or who are you?
Speaker 1: Who am I?
Speaker 2: What are you?
Speaker 1: You know? I really feel like I've sound a nice place,
Speaker 1: like creatively and work wise, I'm doing things that inspire.
Speaker 1: I'm not afraid to take chances, like we've got a
Speaker 1: Road Traders album coming up for the first time, you know,
Speaker 1: like crazy stuff. We're going on tour again. Like work wise,
Speaker 1: I'm really filled with joy. And my family life is beautiful,
Speaker 1: like the relationship that my kids have with Pith and
Speaker 1: vice versa, and that we all have as like different
Speaker 1: kind of family units now whether it's the ogs or
Speaker 1: the you know, the newbies or whatever, it's like we
Speaker 1: we all the priority is always the kids. So hopefully
Speaker 1: in five years time, we you know, and it's in
Speaker 1: me I want to like I'm renting again, because you
Speaker 1: separate and then you rent and then you're trying to
Speaker 1: figure out where you are. Is like have that home base,
Speaker 1: like Pip and I have just put it to pulse
Speaker 1: on some land, So building that little slice of something
Speaker 1: to you know, Pip's really keen to have vegetable gardens and.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe you'll get the lamers you've always been accused
Speaker 2: of of farming, finally become a Larma farmer.
Speaker 1: I know, socially a Lama farmer. That would be funny.
Speaker 1: So I think that is a real priority for me.
Speaker 1: It's just for the kids to feel secure in a
Speaker 1: space and to travel with them and hear and see
Speaker 1: parts of the world that we haven't experienced yet, and
Speaker 1: just immerse ourselves in nature as much as possible, but
Speaker 1: still do work that is creatively stimulating and challenging and
Speaker 1: doesn't send me into an institution.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, the institution is a grand old theater.
Speaker 1: That's correct. Yeah, and then I'll and then I'll be there.
Speaker 1: So I think it's just really coming back to self
Speaker 1: even more in the next five years and being there
Speaker 1: for my kids.
Speaker 2: That bass, I thank you so much for sharing yourself.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. That's the lot.
Speaker 2: And I also can't wait to see you on stage
Speaker 2: because it's always magnificent.
Speaker 1: Thank you, k I finish that so much, And to.
Speaker 2: Say I appreciate you, yeah, I don't. Well, you know,
Speaker 2: there's a lot to be emotional about. I mean, I mean,
Speaker 2: you started this, so that's really the well spring, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's just a sense of lightness now that I
Speaker 1: have that I just haven't had for such a long time.
Speaker 2: There's something very moving, almost unbelievable about hearing someone talk
Speaker 2: so openly about the way life can change course, sometimes quietly,
Speaker 2: sometimes dramatically, often in ways we never imagined for ourselves.
Speaker 2: For Nat, this chapter has been about finding the courage
Speaker 2: to live more truthfully, to embrace love where she found it,
Speaker 2: and to trust that it's never too late for life
Speaker 2: to open up in a completely new direct. She writes
Speaker 2: about that journey in her upcoming autobiography Love Like This,
Speaker 2: which explores not just the career many of us have
Speaker 2: watched unfold for years, but the very personal story behind
Speaker 2: the woman at the center of it. Thank you so
Speaker 2: much for listening to No Filter. The executive producer of
Speaker 2: No Filter is Breed Player. The assistant producer is Coco Levine.
Speaker 2: Audio production by Jacob Brown, Video editing by Josh Green.
Speaker 2: I am Kate Langbrook, and I thank you for listening
Speaker 2: to No Filter.