WEBVTT - Finally The Interview: Kate Langbroek & Mia Freedman 0:00:10.327 --> 0:00:13.047 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:13.727 --> 0:00:16.767 Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.767 --> 0:00:19.967 that this podcast is recorded on Hello, my mid friends. 0:00:19.607 --> 0:00:20.367 It's Holly here. 0:00:20.527 --> 0:00:23.247 I am jumping in to give you an episode of 0:00:23.247 --> 0:00:27.167 No Filter that is super special. My friend and Mamma Mia, 0:00:27.207 --> 0:00:30.327 out loud co host and the co creator of Mamma Mia, 0:00:30.647 --> 0:00:34.967 Big Boss Lady, Incredible woman Mia Friedman has stepped away 0:00:35.007 --> 0:00:38.927 from one of her babies. No Filter is Australia's premier 0:00:39.087 --> 0:00:41.447 interview show and she's been hosting it for ten years. 0:00:41.687 --> 0:00:45.207 Over that time, Mia has interviewed celebrities, prime ministers and 0:00:45.287 --> 0:00:47.487 lots of people whose names you wouldn't know but have the. 0:00:47.487 --> 0:00:48.887 Most unbelievable stories. 0:00:48.887 --> 0:00:52.567 She is the best interviewer and I have learnt so 0:00:52.767 --> 0:00:55.327 much from her. I've had the pleasure of hosting No 0:00:55.407 --> 0:00:56.967 Filter a few times. I can tell you it's not 0:00:57.047 --> 0:01:00.527 easy anyway. Mia has stepped away from that big job. 0:01:00.607 --> 0:01:03.287 You might have seen that, but you need to listen 0:01:03.447 --> 0:01:06.167 to what we're calling her exit interview with the woman 0:01:06.167 --> 0:01:12.127 who's replacing her, the brilliant, wonderful, incomparable Kate Langbrook. Now, 0:01:12.247 --> 0:01:15.927 Kate is a literal ray of human sunshine. She shares 0:01:16.047 --> 0:01:18.927 me as talent of being able to get people to 0:01:19.007 --> 0:01:23.447 tell you really vulnerable stories without it ever becoming too dark, 0:01:23.607 --> 0:01:26.047 too heavy. She has this trick of being able to 0:01:26.047 --> 0:01:29.047 bring the light with the shade. She's the perfect choice 0:01:29.047 --> 0:01:31.567 to replace Mia if anyone has to. And she'd been 0:01:31.607 --> 0:01:33.927 trying to pin down our mere Friedman to talk to 0:01:33.967 --> 0:01:36.007 her for a while for a proper, in depth interview, 0:01:36.287 --> 0:01:40.567 and Mia kept avoiding it until she couldn't anymore. So, mids, 0:01:40.567 --> 0:01:42.567 I want you to enjoy this last episode of No 0:01:42.647 --> 0:01:45.727 Filter that has Mia on it. It's her exit interview 0:01:45.967 --> 0:01:48.127 with Kate Langbrook. I hope you enjoy. 0:01:49.607 --> 0:01:52.487 Felt like I had noice skin. Yeah, you felt like 0:01:52.647 --> 0:01:56.847 I was just raw. I was just an open I 0:01:56.927 --> 0:02:00.527 was just all. Yeah, I had no protection. Yeah, I 0:02:00.607 --> 0:02:02.047 was just I was a friggin. 0:02:01.807 --> 0:02:11.927 Mess for Mama Maya. 0:02:12.407 --> 0:02:15.447 This is No Filter. I'm Kate lane Brook. Yes you are, 0:02:16.127 --> 0:02:19.647 Yes I am. I'm going to introduce us. Okay, I'm 0:02:19.727 --> 0:02:26.527 Kate lane Brook, and I'm joined by someone who when 0:02:26.527 --> 0:02:30.967 I have listened to No Filter over the years, I 0:02:31.087 --> 0:02:35.007 have wanted to talk to this person more than anybody else. 0:02:37.047 --> 0:02:37.727 I would like. 0:02:37.687 --> 0:02:42.207 To introduce my very special guest, Maya Friedman. 0:02:43.567 --> 0:02:45.607 I was easy to get. 0:02:46.127 --> 0:02:48.647 Wow, you were not easy to get. 0:02:48.287 --> 0:02:49.767 Well, that's also true. 0:02:49.807 --> 0:02:52.687 In fact, part of the reason I think we're sitting 0:02:52.727 --> 0:02:55.967 here is that you've been very hard to get. 0:02:56.767 --> 0:02:58.327 I like playing hard to get. Yes, we did have 0:02:58.407 --> 0:03:00.967 an aborted attempt at this a year ago, didn't we. Yeah, 0:03:00.967 --> 0:03:03.327 we did. I've been thinking about that a lot when 0:03:03.327 --> 0:03:06.327 I was thinking about today and how this time last 0:03:06.407 --> 0:03:09.207 year we sat down before you were going to host 0:03:09.367 --> 0:03:13.127 the summer summer's edition Summer Season of No Filter, to 0:03:13.167 --> 0:03:15.687 see how you liked it, because I needed a rest, 0:03:16.367 --> 0:03:18.447 and well, you were hanging by a three. I was 0:03:18.487 --> 0:03:21.487 hanging by thread. And it wasn't, in hindsight, a very 0:03:21.487 --> 0:03:24.607 good time to do an interview. And I never sit 0:03:24.687 --> 0:03:26.487 down and do long form interviews, so I hadn't for 0:03:26.527 --> 0:03:29.407 a long time before that out like years, And I 0:03:29.447 --> 0:03:32.927 sat down and you thought it went well. 0:03:33.567 --> 0:03:37.807 It was great, It was absolutely fascinating. Youth would a 0:03:38.087 --> 0:03:40.287 well at the time as well. Well, I didn't really 0:03:40.287 --> 0:03:44.487 think about it a message afterwards. I tried to cancel 0:03:44.527 --> 0:03:45.207 a few times. 0:03:45.287 --> 0:03:47.807 You did try to cancel anyway, This is all boring, 0:03:47.847 --> 0:03:49.527 but this is all behind the scenes stuff. But I 0:03:50.007 --> 0:03:54.527 pulled the pin because it wasn't When I say it 0:03:54.567 --> 0:03:56.807 wasn't me at my best. I just I was a 0:03:56.847 --> 0:03:58.607 hot mess, And I mean I'm always a hot mess, 0:03:58.607 --> 0:04:01.287 but I was in a particularly fragile state this time 0:04:01.367 --> 0:04:05.327 last year, and I didn't I just didn't particularly want 0:04:05.367 --> 0:04:07.327 to put that out there because I was still in 0:04:07.367 --> 0:04:09.127 the middle of being in that fragile state. 0:04:09.327 --> 0:04:13.127 Yeah, because you were processing something, which I know at 0:04:13.167 --> 0:04:17.487 the time, but I could tell when I was talking 0:04:17.567 --> 0:04:20.767 to you, And do you remember the question that tricked 0:04:20.767 --> 0:04:24.527 your trigger? Do you remember what it was? I'll say 0:04:24.527 --> 0:04:26.927 it to you now because because you're in such a 0:04:27.007 --> 0:04:30.327 vastly different place I said to you, because I've been 0:04:30.327 --> 0:04:33.847 reading your book. I've read your book, and this was 0:04:34.007 --> 0:04:36.167 you were on the cusp then and waiting for strife 0:04:36.167 --> 0:04:39.607 to come out. So there was a lot of there 0:04:39.647 --> 0:04:41.647 were a lot of shadows that came in with you. 0:04:41.767 --> 0:04:44.447 I felt like I had no skin. Yeah, you were 0:04:44.887 --> 0:04:49.047 I was just raw. I was just an open I 0:04:49.127 --> 0:04:51.447 was just all yeah, I had no protection. 0:04:52.607 --> 0:04:57.207 Yeah, but you were still as you do and as 0:04:57.247 --> 0:05:00.007 you have to do. You were still navigating your way 0:05:00.047 --> 0:05:04.967 through this world because you've got so many, you know, 0:05:05.287 --> 0:05:09.167 plates spinning at all times, and if you drop the plate, 0:05:10.007 --> 0:05:12.327 there's a world on each of those plates. So I 0:05:12.367 --> 0:05:14.327 get the feeling you're very conscious of not dropping those 0:05:14.327 --> 0:05:16.767 plates because you don't want to damage the people that 0:05:16.807 --> 0:05:17.447 are on the plate. 0:05:17.647 --> 0:05:22.967 That's very That's such an insightful observation, and you're right. 0:05:23.127 --> 0:05:26.447 It's like, I think I probably had some kind of breakdown. 0:05:26.807 --> 0:05:29.807 I had a sort of a slow moving, ongoing breakdown 0:05:30.487 --> 0:05:34.247 over the last around that time, before that and probably 0:05:34.727 --> 0:05:38.207 through to about halfway through this year, which weirdly makes 0:05:38.207 --> 0:05:41.887 me laugh. Well, it's like, let's just crack into it. Hey, 0:05:42.207 --> 0:05:44.167 we haven't even have no small talk. 0:05:44.527 --> 0:05:46.287 Well, well you may as well laugh. 0:05:46.447 --> 0:05:48.927 Oh no, but it is funny. It's like, because I 0:05:48.927 --> 0:05:52.087 had this breakdown and I probably should have taken myself 0:05:52.127 --> 0:05:56.527 away somewhere, yes, but I couldn't. I just couldn't. You 0:05:56.647 --> 0:05:58.887 Hosting the summer season of No Filter was the first 0:05:58.927 --> 0:06:02.807 tentative step that I'd taken from stepping back from really 0:06:02.847 --> 0:06:06.727 anything since I wasn't the editor of Mamamea anymore. I know, 0:06:07.687 --> 0:06:12.007 So yeah it was it was, Yeah, I was just 0:06:12.087 --> 0:06:13.807 I was a frigging mass. 0:06:13.487 --> 0:06:16.847 Because you know, those of us who really just if 0:06:16.887 --> 0:06:21.087 we knew nothing about you other than your output, if 0:06:21.167 --> 0:06:26.487 we knew nothing other than that, that is extraordinary and 0:06:26.527 --> 0:06:31.367 that is exhausting to think about. So you were exhausted 0:06:31.407 --> 0:06:33.727 and this is this is the thing. And I wasn't 0:06:33.807 --> 0:06:36.127 doing it. It wasn't a gotcha, it wasn't whatever. It was 0:06:36.247 --> 0:06:39.647 like a genuine because I just wanted to work out 0:06:40.767 --> 0:06:45.047 what your driver was, what your engine, what what your 0:06:45.087 --> 0:06:49.367 engine takes. And I said to you, because I'd read 0:06:49.407 --> 0:06:53.007 your book, and I said, it's really interesting because we 0:06:53.047 --> 0:06:55.527 talked about whether or not you ever reflect on the 0:06:55.607 --> 0:06:59.647 amazing thing that you built things and you said no. 0:07:00.447 --> 0:07:02.407 And then I said, you know what's interesting in your book? 0:07:02.407 --> 0:07:04.807 And you talk about work that's still got to be 0:07:04.927 --> 0:07:07.527 done and you know what you could have done better? 0:07:07.967 --> 0:07:11.007 And I said, but you never talk about the concept 0:07:11.047 --> 0:07:13.487 of happiness. Do you remember that? 0:07:13.727 --> 0:07:15.687 Is that all I can say? I can feel? Yeah, 0:07:16.167 --> 0:07:18.167 done again? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:07:17.967 --> 0:07:22.727 And it was it was just a yeah. And then 0:07:23.127 --> 0:07:26.607 that was like, I don't know, It's like someone pulled 0:07:26.607 --> 0:07:29.567 a little stitch, the last stitch that you were hanging by, 0:07:30.207 --> 0:07:32.727 and then you kind of just unraveled a little bit. 0:07:32.847 --> 0:07:36.407 Oh, yeah, a lot. Yeah, how to we cry? Yeah, 0:07:36.487 --> 0:07:41.727 it's true. It's like happiness kind of doesn't doesn't really 0:07:42.847 --> 0:07:45.007 when you're running a business, it's not. Actually, that's a 0:07:45.087 --> 0:07:48.807 luxury that sort of sits on the side and not 0:07:48.887 --> 0:07:51.287 to be matter. Like, I also love my work. I 0:07:51.287 --> 0:07:53.607 think it would be easier if I didn't. You know, 0:07:53.847 --> 0:07:56.767 I didn't. If I didn't love my work, I would 0:07:56.807 --> 0:07:59.207 go I'm so burnt out, I'm so exhausted, I need 0:07:59.247 --> 0:08:02.087 to back away. But firstly, when you've built something this size, 0:08:02.127 --> 0:08:03.607 it's hard to extract yourself. 0:08:03.967 --> 0:08:05.567 But also I love it. 0:08:05.607 --> 0:08:07.807 I love what I do like I love what I do. 0:08:08.367 --> 0:08:09.007 And it's it's a. 0:08:09.047 --> 0:08:13.287 Quo kind of working out when it's time to call 0:08:13.407 --> 0:08:15.167 time on certainty, okay. 0:08:15.527 --> 0:08:19.127 Which has led us to this today. How do you 0:08:19.207 --> 0:08:24.207 work that out? Because I mean, you are apparently the 0:08:24.327 --> 0:08:27.927 meya in Mum and Me, well I used to be. 0:08:28.047 --> 0:08:29.727 I think there's a lot of people who wouldn't even 0:08:29.767 --> 0:08:32.047 know who I am anymore, who might experience Mum and 0:08:32.047 --> 0:08:35.887 mea through one of our either podcasts not no filter, 0:08:36.207 --> 0:08:39.287 or written content or social content that they might consume 0:08:39.487 --> 0:08:43.447 or something, and they wouldn't even know, particularly younger people 0:08:43.527 --> 0:08:46.247 gen z Ds and millennials who wouldn't even know who 0:08:46.287 --> 0:08:48.727 I was, Which is the way it has always which 0:08:48.727 --> 0:08:51.207 is what we've always wanted. Jason and I Jesus when 0:08:51.247 --> 0:08:55.247 we first started. Our last seventeen years have been about 0:08:55.287 --> 0:08:56.607 slowly backing me out. 0:08:57.247 --> 0:08:59.607 That's a long that's a long reverse. 0:09:02.167 --> 0:09:05.007 That's a long driveway, sure is. 0:09:05.127 --> 0:09:06.967 That's when you're back into the fence. 0:09:07.247 --> 0:09:11.207 Many which I've done many times, many times. My old 0:09:11.207 --> 0:09:14.727 producer on No Filter, Eliza Ratliffe, knows that I've been 0:09:14.727 --> 0:09:16.687 trying to quit No Filter for two years, and not 0:09:16.727 --> 0:09:20.127 because I don't love it, but just because it takes 0:09:20.167 --> 0:09:22.967 a lot, Like it takes a lot, Yes, it's. 0:09:22.807 --> 0:09:26.447 A lot, and for I mean people listening to it, 0:09:26.767 --> 0:09:30.007 I think they know intuitively, even if they haven't thought 0:09:30.047 --> 0:09:32.287 in a more academic since about how much it takes 0:09:32.607 --> 0:09:36.927 that if you're interviewing someone who's got a body of work, 0:09:37.327 --> 0:09:41.607 you pay them the courtesy of familiarizing yourself with their 0:09:41.647 --> 0:09:42.327 body of work. 0:09:42.527 --> 0:09:45.087 Well, that can be books, what is it can be 0:09:45.167 --> 0:09:48.487 TV show yes, yeah, or all the different things, and 0:09:48.567 --> 0:09:51.847 even just getting to understand who someone is like to 0:09:52.047 --> 0:09:57.047 prepare for an interview, My process is just very immersive, 0:09:57.167 --> 0:10:01.087 and I can only do it within about twenty four 0:10:01.087 --> 0:10:03.047 hours of actually sitting down with them. 0:10:03.487 --> 0:10:08.447 So because you've done so many new things over the 0:10:08.567 --> 0:10:11.887 last I don't know, Like you said, there's a plethora 0:10:11.967 --> 0:10:14.567 of new podcasts, it kind of feels like there's another 0:10:15.327 --> 0:10:18.647 You're going to another level, which might be the level 0:10:18.647 --> 0:10:20.047 at which you kind of get to. 0:10:20.727 --> 0:10:23.127 I think the business is getting bigger, but I want 0:10:23.127 --> 0:10:25.647 to get smaller, right if that makes sense? 0:10:25.927 --> 0:10:27.807 It does make sense, But do you know how to 0:10:27.887 --> 0:10:29.327 do that? Well, that's what the. 0:10:29.407 --> 0:10:32.927 Last sort of eighteen months to two years has been. 0:10:33.287 --> 0:10:37.487 It's been setting us up for Jason and I to 0:10:37.567 --> 0:10:42.127 be able to accelerate that withers like I don't want 0:10:42.127 --> 0:10:46.887 to completely no buildings to go okay, there wasn't an 0:10:46.887 --> 0:10:49.527 option until sort of the last eighteen months. So that 0:10:49.567 --> 0:10:53.327 it's been finding the right people. When new CEO, when 0:10:53.367 --> 0:10:56.167 you chief content officer, we've got a new chief revenue officer, 0:10:56.207 --> 0:11:00.247 all these different people to put in to say, okay, 0:11:01.447 --> 0:11:05.527 we now feel able to step back further to a 0:11:05.607 --> 0:11:09.767 point where we don't have to run the whole anymore. 0:11:09.767 --> 0:11:13.287 That they can take the baton from us. And you know, 0:11:13.327 --> 0:11:15.047 you want to hire people who are smarter than you. 0:11:15.047 --> 0:11:16.607 You want to work with people who are smarter than you. 0:11:16.927 --> 0:11:20.207 But after a while, when you've done something for a while, 0:11:20.247 --> 0:11:22.927 it's hard to find those people because you've been in 0:11:22.967 --> 0:11:23.447 the space. 0:11:23.847 --> 0:11:27.887 It's really hard to find those people. And also, I'm free. 0:11:28.247 --> 0:11:32.927 So you know the reason why I'm like, yeah, oh me, 0:11:33.047 --> 0:11:34.207 you can do it. Me, you can do it. Me, 0:11:34.207 --> 0:11:35.447 you can do it, and I'll put up my hand 0:11:35.527 --> 0:11:38.127 is that I am free and I'm available, of course, 0:11:38.367 --> 0:11:41.687 and you know, hiring really good people like you and 0:11:42.047 --> 0:11:45.247 other and the executives that we've got, and all the 0:11:45.247 --> 0:11:47.647 people that work in our business, including our head of content, 0:11:47.807 --> 0:11:49.607 that costs a lot of money, and you have to 0:11:49.687 --> 0:11:53.367 be you know, people see the front, but they don't know. 0:11:53.647 --> 0:11:55.487 You know, it's like the dark gliding across the pond. 0:11:55.887 --> 0:11:58.087 They don't see what's going on under the surface. And 0:11:58.127 --> 0:11:59.847 there's a lot going on under the surface. 0:12:00.207 --> 0:12:04.607 It's like my husband who own nightclubs, and people always think, oh, 0:12:04.647 --> 0:12:08.447 you must get cheap booze. You don't, you don't. You're 0:12:08.487 --> 0:12:12.447 actually get it cheaper at Dan Murphy's. But also they 0:12:12.487 --> 0:12:16.447 don't know about rent and people and insurance and Capron 0:12:16.607 --> 0:12:23.167 la la Lah exactly exactly. So what Okay, So here's 0:12:23.207 --> 0:12:27.247 the thing with you and you're seventeen year reversing out 0:12:27.247 --> 0:12:33.287 of the driveway. But because it's not just a business, 0:12:34.127 --> 0:12:40.407 it's also your family. So that is just another mind boggle. 0:12:40.567 --> 0:12:43.327 Like when I was here yesterday and you were arriving 0:12:43.367 --> 0:12:47.287 with Luca and Jesse Jesse, which was gorgeous, and then 0:12:47.607 --> 0:12:49.407 someone made the joke was at Luca that you just 0:12:49.567 --> 0:12:54.527 arrived from the Succession helicopter, because it's like it was. 0:12:54.487 --> 0:12:57.167 Like we bumped into each other in the car and 0:12:57.207 --> 0:13:00.127 they drove in together. It's like, yeah, it's a family business. 0:13:00.167 --> 0:13:01.807 Like there's one hundred and fifty people in it. But 0:13:02.367 --> 0:13:04.727 Jason and I are the co founders, Luca is the 0:13:05.127 --> 0:13:09.487 chief operating and product officer, and you know my friend 0:13:09.527 --> 0:13:11.767 and daughter in law Jesse. I posed a podcast with her, 0:13:11.847 --> 0:13:17.727 and so yeah, everyone's various people are involved in the business. 0:13:17.767 --> 0:13:20.367 I mean, my two youngest children just want to get 0:13:20.367 --> 0:13:23.007 away from it. They'll probably get sacked into it too. 0:13:23.527 --> 0:13:28.127 So yeah, that that means that it's not a job 0:13:28.167 --> 0:13:29.087 you can easily quit. 0:13:29.847 --> 0:13:34.527 But also aside from the job, you've also as a 0:13:34.967 --> 0:13:39.287 human and as a woman and as a mother. You've 0:13:39.327 --> 0:13:43.687 become a mother in law and that's and a grandmother 0:13:43.767 --> 0:13:46.327 and that's all happened at the same time as well. 0:13:46.647 --> 0:13:48.847 Yeah, and I think that last year was a real 0:13:48.967 --> 0:13:52.287 unraveling for me, Like on every level of my identity. 0:13:52.807 --> 0:13:56.087 I turned, I turned, how old, did I added? Whatever 0:13:56.127 --> 0:14:01.327 I did? Fifty three blurd, I became a grandmother. My 0:14:01.367 --> 0:14:04.407 eldest son got married, Like all of these things happened. 0:14:05.367 --> 0:14:08.047 My youngest child sort of, you know, got beyond that 0:14:08.167 --> 0:14:12.327 age where you know, he turned sixteen. So it's like 0:14:12.887 --> 0:14:17.007 I officially moved into that age of your kids are 0:14:17.007 --> 0:14:20.767 growing up in a way, having their own families and 0:14:21.327 --> 0:14:23.087 what does that mean? And at the same time, the 0:14:23.127 --> 0:14:27.407 world is telling you you're irrelevant, you're invisible, you're a carrying. 0:14:27.247 --> 0:14:29.687 Your socks are the wrong length, your socks. 0:14:29.447 --> 0:14:32.967 Yeah, you're a loser, all of those things. And then 0:14:33.007 --> 0:14:34.247 it's like, well and then what do you do with 0:14:34.287 --> 0:14:37.487 your face and what like? And I just I just 0:14:37.607 --> 0:14:41.407 lost it, Like I just felt really it was like 0:14:42.047 --> 0:14:44.607 you know when you're doing a software upgrade and you 0:14:44.647 --> 0:14:46.927 get the like the spinning wheel, right. 0:14:46.847 --> 0:14:48.047 The wheel was just spinning. 0:14:48.607 --> 0:14:50.447 It was like the spinning wheel. It's like it was 0:14:50.487 --> 0:14:54.167 before this new phase, I was just really lost. I 0:14:54.207 --> 0:14:56.567 was lost at work, I was lost at home, I 0:14:56.607 --> 0:14:59.727 was lost in with my place in the world, all 0:14:59.767 --> 0:15:01.927 of those things. And part of the reason that I 0:15:01.967 --> 0:15:05.007 also wanted to find the right person to hand no 0:15:05.087 --> 0:15:09.167 Filter over to was I wanted to make some room 0:15:09.447 --> 0:15:12.007 creatively to do some other things, and there just wasn't 0:15:12.047 --> 0:15:13.887 any room. And I used to think that I could 0:15:13.887 --> 0:15:15.527 just take on more and more and more and more. 0:15:15.567 --> 0:15:20.327 And last year I realized, oh, I'm breaking, I'm broken. Yeah, 0:15:20.607 --> 0:15:22.647 And I realized that, Okay, I can't. So I had 0:15:22.647 --> 0:15:23.487 to make some space. 0:15:23.727 --> 0:15:27.847 Yeah, and how okay. So, in my experience, when you 0:15:27.887 --> 0:15:32.047 find yourself in situations like that, if you don't make 0:15:32.087 --> 0:15:35.167 the decision, your body will make the decision for you. 0:15:35.287 --> 0:15:36.407 Oh yeah. 0:15:36.447 --> 0:15:38.287 So it's like actors will often say, if they've been 0:15:38.287 --> 0:15:41.447 in like a long run of a play, they get 0:15:41.607 --> 0:15:44.687 sick on the last nine they had their rap party 0:15:44.727 --> 0:15:48.207 and then they got the down. So you had to 0:15:48.327 --> 0:15:50.367 call it before your body called it. 0:15:51.207 --> 0:15:53.767 My body's tried to call it for a really long time, 0:15:54.047 --> 0:15:56.927 like you know. Jason was talking to someone the other 0:15:57.007 --> 0:16:00.887 day and said, Maya has passed the point of burnout 0:16:00.927 --> 0:16:04.207 so many times because it's like it's just not been 0:16:04.247 --> 0:16:08.487 an option. So it's been I've gone past burnout, past burnout, 0:16:08.487 --> 0:16:12.847 past burnout, past burnout. And I was sick quite a 0:16:12.887 --> 0:16:15.487 lot in twenty twenty four. I just got like you know, 0:16:15.767 --> 0:16:18.287 usual winter thing. Lots of people have just got sick. 0:16:18.767 --> 0:16:20.607 My immune system has been okay, but I've also been 0:16:20.607 --> 0:16:24.487 going through perimenopause and then menopause, and so it's been 0:16:24.567 --> 0:16:29.087 all infusing to know what yes exactly, and I just 0:16:30.007 --> 0:16:33.607 I recover very very easily. And I've got a really 0:16:33.607 --> 0:16:36.927 big engine, I think because I'm quite also forgetful, and 0:16:37.007 --> 0:16:39.527 I just forget that I'm exhausted, Like don't. I don't 0:16:40.167 --> 0:16:42.087 marinate in things long, like. 0:16:42.447 --> 0:16:45.927 I slate well really well, or what time to go 0:16:45.967 --> 0:16:46.287 to bed. 0:16:47.687 --> 0:16:51.567 I probably I look at my phone until maybe fifteen 0:16:51.607 --> 0:16:56.407 seconds before I'm before I'm asleep, Like I'll just look 0:16:56.407 --> 0:16:58.047 at it. I'm not one of those people that need 0:16:58.047 --> 0:17:00.767 to do special sleep hyjen and everything. I'm fortunate in 0:17:00.767 --> 0:17:04.167 that way. And then I will just literally turn my 0:17:04.167 --> 0:17:06.367 phone off, put it on the floor, and within fifteen 0:17:06.367 --> 0:17:07.407 seconds go sleep. 0:17:07.767 --> 0:17:09.007 And how long do you sleep? For? 0:17:10.327 --> 0:17:15.167 Probably about seven between six to seven hours. Yeah, I 0:17:15.247 --> 0:17:16.247 wake up pretty early. 0:17:16.687 --> 0:17:19.447 Do you wake up and you're full of ideas? Or 0:17:19.487 --> 0:17:23.487 do you wake up slowly and step into the day. 0:17:23.887 --> 0:17:26.727 Oh I've never been like a jump out of bed person. 0:17:26.927 --> 0:17:29.447 No, but sometimes I wake up and I'm like boo, 0:17:29.807 --> 0:17:32.007 and it's like, all these things have happened in my sleep. 0:17:32.727 --> 0:17:36.167 Oh no, all of those things happen in my way. Okay, yeah, no, 0:17:36.327 --> 0:17:39.407 So often, what I've become very aware of is that 0:17:39.487 --> 0:17:41.767 I wake up, open my eyes, pick up my phone, 0:17:41.847 --> 0:17:45.967 and just saturate myself with stimulation. I think that's probably 0:17:46.007 --> 0:17:48.807 what most of us do, and from my brain it 0:17:48.967 --> 0:17:52.247 needs that. But I've also become aware that that's not 0:17:52.287 --> 0:17:56.207 a very gentle weight away here, not a brutal pretty brutal. 0:17:56.047 --> 0:17:58.087 Particularly if you're looking at news. 0:17:58.527 --> 0:18:00.967 Yeah, yeah, you know. The first thing I'll do is 0:18:00.967 --> 0:18:02.647 look at my WhatsApp and if any of the chats 0:18:02.647 --> 0:18:04.807 have gone off, like you know, sometimes I wake up 0:18:04.807 --> 0:18:07.087 and there'll be thirty messages and it might be that 0:18:07.167 --> 0:18:08.927 just one of my group chats has you know, gone 0:18:08.927 --> 0:18:13.167 off night about whatever, but it also could be breaking 0:18:13.207 --> 0:18:16.367 news that I've missed because you know, someone else was 0:18:16.447 --> 0:18:19.127 up before me the day starts hard and then on 0:18:19.167 --> 0:18:23.207 weekends Luca brings over Luna. So you're a great waiter. Yeah, 0:18:23.207 --> 0:18:25.367 I wake up to her, you know, I get up 0:18:25.367 --> 0:18:29.647 and she's she arrives pretty soon after. So yeah, I'm not. 0:18:29.767 --> 0:18:33.327 I'm not a sort of lying around person. Like my 0:18:33.407 --> 0:18:37.767 brain just goes all the time, which is exhausting in itself. 0:18:38.247 --> 0:18:41.047 So you know how you were saying, Jason said you'd 0:18:41.127 --> 0:18:43.327 gone beyond burnout so many times. 0:18:44.767 --> 0:18:46.847 How did that manifest? Then? 0:18:47.127 --> 0:18:53.127 Great question? Just despair. I think just like cry most days. 0:18:53.767 --> 0:18:55.887 Sometimes I'd crying meetings, which is bad. 0:18:57.447 --> 0:19:03.567 Sometimes I would out of just out of just full, full, overwhelmed. 0:19:03.647 --> 0:19:07.527 It's just overwhelmed, overwhelm, overwhelm, overwhelmed. I'd feel just overwhelmed 0:19:08.367 --> 0:19:10.807 a lot of the time, and then i'd have to, 0:19:10.927 --> 0:19:12.567 you know, come in here and I'd lift because I 0:19:12.607 --> 0:19:13.567 had to live sure. 0:19:13.927 --> 0:19:18.127 And also there's distraction then, yeah, and distraction is just 0:19:18.207 --> 0:19:20.407 so gratefully received when you're like that. 0:19:20.487 --> 0:19:22.487 I love coming in into the office and I love 0:19:23.087 --> 0:19:25.487 you know, I love recording the podcast that Mummy are 0:19:25.487 --> 0:19:29.447 out loud and then no filter would often be a 0:19:29.487 --> 0:19:32.087 lot because when you have to meet, like the conversations 0:19:32.087 --> 0:19:33.767 that you have on this show, not that they're always 0:19:34.247 --> 0:19:38.167 bleak or sad, but they're always deep and you have 0:19:38.287 --> 0:19:41.287 it's called no filter, correct, So you have to meet 0:19:41.327 --> 0:19:45.407 someone there every single time, and it's really intense. But 0:19:45.487 --> 0:19:47.087 I have this thing where I walk out of the 0:19:47.127 --> 0:19:50.167 studio and I won't be able to remember anything. So 0:19:50.247 --> 0:19:53.047 my poor producers would like try to sit down with 0:19:53.087 --> 0:19:56.727 me afterwards and like deef, and I'm like, I don't 0:19:56.767 --> 0:19:57.607 remember anything. 0:19:57.687 --> 0:19:58.407 It's weird. 0:19:58.967 --> 0:20:01.767 It's like I'm so present at them at that time. 0:20:01.767 --> 0:20:04.447 But I've got a very efficient clearing system, like my 0:20:04.527 --> 0:20:07.767 hard drives just constantly being deleted, delete, delate, delete. 0:20:07.487 --> 0:20:09.327 Where you don't have the storage, I. 0:20:09.327 --> 0:20:10.967 Don't have the story, so I'll walk out and then 0:20:11.007 --> 0:20:13.007 I won't I actually won't ever want to listen to 0:20:13.047 --> 0:20:15.047 it again. I want to do ever talk about it again. 0:20:15.327 --> 0:20:18.727 And this show requires a lot of you know, there's 0:20:18.727 --> 0:20:20.367 a lot of you've got to take really good care 0:20:20.367 --> 0:20:22.047 of the people that you interview, and you've got to 0:20:22.407 --> 0:20:25.487 follow through on that process. And I just wasn't able 0:20:25.527 --> 0:20:29.647 to do that justice anymore. And I felt what I 0:20:29.727 --> 0:20:32.327 love is actually I want to listen to you interview 0:20:32.367 --> 0:20:35.327 people like I loved over summer. 0:20:35.407 --> 0:20:38.007 I love the girl I interviewing right now, your lover 0:20:42.847 --> 0:20:46.367 mayor Friedman. I know you're desperate to escape, but you 0:20:46.487 --> 0:20:46.967 shall not. 0:20:47.167 --> 0:20:48.167 I know where the exits are. 0:20:48.287 --> 0:20:52.607 Yeah, no you don't. We've changed them. You're staying put. 0:20:57.007 --> 0:20:59.127 I think you're the best interviewer in Australia. I think 0:20:59.167 --> 0:20:59.527 you are. 0:20:59.687 --> 0:21:03.487 Oh calm down, you have because you're playful. 0:21:03.527 --> 0:21:05.607 Even when we did that interview which we ended up 0:21:05.647 --> 0:21:09.127 not publishing, you will so seamlessly because I was being 0:21:09.127 --> 0:21:11.527 in but I was also observing you, not to judge you, 0:21:11.567 --> 0:21:15.407 but just because I was interested in your practice. And 0:21:15.727 --> 0:21:19.047 you did that really tricky thing which you took me 0:21:19.167 --> 0:21:22.127 from tears and then you knew exactly when to just 0:21:22.647 --> 0:21:26.167 bridge to something funny and we both laughed and complete 0:21:26.247 --> 0:21:26.687 gear chap. 0:21:26.767 --> 0:21:28.247 But you know, it's an interesting. 0:21:27.887 --> 0:21:29.607 It's really rare. Most people can't do that, but. 0:21:29.607 --> 0:21:32.727 In friendships you do it all the time. People do 0:21:32.767 --> 0:21:35.567 it all the time. That's how you get your friends through, 0:21:35.607 --> 0:21:39.727 and that's how you navigate those moments where someone's really raw. 0:21:39.807 --> 0:21:42.807 And then you're like, it's true. You know, I'm curious 0:21:42.847 --> 0:21:46.647 about Jay saying you've gone beyond burnout so many times 0:21:46.887 --> 0:21:52.327 and because of your relationship with him as a husband 0:21:53.167 --> 0:21:57.567 and a lover and a business partner. 0:21:57.687 --> 0:22:00.087 I know everyone says, I don't know how you could 0:22:00.087 --> 0:22:01.487 work with your partner. I never could. 0:22:02.407 --> 0:22:03.807 What do you say? 0:22:05.087 --> 0:22:06.927 I would have said the same thing. I would have 0:22:06.967 --> 0:22:08.447 said the same thing, But wasn't. 0:22:08.247 --> 0:22:09.087 Your intention was? 0:22:09.127 --> 0:22:12.647 It was not my idea and it was not my intention. 0:22:13.127 --> 0:22:17.207 But I certainly wouldn't be here with Mum and MEA 0:22:17.247 --> 0:22:19.967 wouldn't be what it was. No, if it wasn't for 0:22:20.007 --> 0:22:21.687 the two of us, like he wouldn't have done it 0:22:21.767 --> 0:22:23.927 without me, and I certainly wouldn't have done it without him. 0:22:23.927 --> 0:22:25.807 And I wasn't. I'd already been doing it by myself 0:22:25.847 --> 0:22:30.287 for eighteen months, and i'd, you know, made no money 0:22:30.487 --> 0:22:33.367 for eighteen months. I'd built an audience, but I didn't 0:22:33.407 --> 0:22:36.287 know how to monetize it. I didn't have the skills 0:22:36.407 --> 0:22:38.967 or the bandwidth to do it. And I didn't have 0:22:39.047 --> 0:22:41.047 the vision that he did for the business. It's not 0:22:41.967 --> 0:22:45.247 I've got a business brain, but not the big picture 0:22:45.367 --> 0:22:48.527 business and not the you know, I can't I won't 0:22:48.527 --> 0:22:50.687 say I can't read a spreadsheet. I remember Zoe Foster 0:22:50.727 --> 0:22:54.167 Blake said to me that when she first started go 0:22:54.247 --> 0:22:58.167 to and she has a couple of business partners co partners, 0:22:58.167 --> 0:23:01.087 and she said she'd sit in meetings at first and 0:23:01.127 --> 0:23:03.407 be like, I don't understand the numbers, and then she's like, 0:23:03.407 --> 0:23:05.927 and then I realized that wasn't cute anymore. I don't 0:23:05.967 --> 0:23:09.967 do it to be cute. But I also like, I 0:23:10.047 --> 0:23:12.447 just can't things that. I mean, I suppose I could, 0:23:12.487 --> 0:23:15.287 and she has had to teach herself, but there's no 0:23:15.287 --> 0:23:17.167 way I could do what I have to do if 0:23:17.247 --> 0:23:18.727 I also had to do the other stuff. And I'm 0:23:18.767 --> 0:23:21.247 just not that good at the other stuff. Okay, but 0:23:21.647 --> 0:23:24.647 how good are you at being a wife? In terrible 0:23:24.647 --> 0:23:27.727 of all? Right, so bad, so bad. 0:23:27.887 --> 0:23:29.807 Let's just have a moment's pause for. 0:23:31.887 --> 0:23:36.887 He's very He's the nurture in this in our right. 0:23:37.127 --> 0:23:38.927 It's not that I don't nurture the kids and I 0:23:38.927 --> 0:23:42.047 don't love him. I love him. Maddling. We've just celebrated 0:23:42.087 --> 0:23:43.767 our twenty fifth wedding anniversary. 0:23:43.927 --> 0:23:46.527 How did you celebrate for the first time? 0:23:46.607 --> 0:23:49.767 We remembered, Oh, and we went out to dinner and 0:23:49.807 --> 0:23:53.647 we've ever done that before. Really, we're not like that, 0:23:53.727 --> 0:23:55.447 like when we don't give each other presents we're not 0:23:55.487 --> 0:23:59.207 present people. It's not our love language. We're real homebodies. 0:23:59.207 --> 0:24:03.287 We love staying at home. So I often think that 0:24:03.487 --> 0:24:07.047 if you've got a certain if every relationship has a 0:24:07.047 --> 0:24:09.807 certain amount of petrol in the tank, yes, until it 0:24:09.887 --> 0:24:13.647 sort of just runs out. Yeah, working together just you 0:24:13.647 --> 0:24:15.527 you know, uses up that petrol. 0:24:15.687 --> 0:24:20.247 Well, that's why that's why I ask. Yeah, I can't 0:24:20.287 --> 0:24:24.567 even conceive of Like earlier last year, I was kind 0:24:24.567 --> 0:24:28.327 of in between managers and Peter, my husband who I 0:24:28.327 --> 0:24:31.847 also love, who I've been with for twenty one years. 0:24:32.447 --> 0:24:34.367 He was kind of helping out for a while, and 0:24:34.407 --> 0:24:39.807 it was really terrible. Not because he's terrible. He's really 0:24:39.847 --> 0:24:42.967 good at business and he's whatever sexy, but the marrying that, Yeah, 0:24:43.167 --> 0:24:45.967 marrying a thing. The fantasy is that you're going to 0:24:46.007 --> 0:24:48.327 go in like do you ever go into Jason's office, 0:24:48.327 --> 0:24:50.327 shut the door behind you and just kind of take 0:24:50.407 --> 0:24:54.167 you because that's great. 0:24:54.487 --> 0:24:57.047 Can you imagine if we ever like touch each other 0:24:57.087 --> 0:25:01.327 in meetings or something, Everyone's like ew, mum and dad, ew. No, 0:25:01.527 --> 0:25:04.287 we don't do that. And that's why it's probably been 0:25:04.727 --> 0:25:08.087 the best thing for our business and probably the worst 0:25:08.127 --> 0:25:11.767 thing for our relationship being in business although I've also 0:25:11.967 --> 0:25:16.687 seen relationships where both couples are pulling in different directions. 0:25:16.727 --> 0:25:18.207 Either one of them has a big job and the 0:25:18.247 --> 0:25:22.127 other one doesn't, or they've both got big jobs or whatever, 0:25:22.167 --> 0:25:25.007 and there's that constant competitiveness of whose job is more 0:25:25.047 --> 0:25:28.047 important or whose role is more important. And a lot 0:25:28.087 --> 0:25:30.687 of actors, if actors go out with other actors, they 0:25:30.727 --> 0:25:32.687 have a very similar kind of imagine what that would 0:25:32.687 --> 0:25:35.927 be like, terrible madness to go out with them. Yeah, 0:25:35.967 --> 0:25:41.207 and I think, you know, for us, we've at least 0:25:41.207 --> 0:25:44.007 always been pulling in the same direction, you know, and 0:25:44.047 --> 0:25:46.607 in that way it's very efficient. So we've been able 0:25:46.647 --> 0:25:50.687 to tag team with kids and with work. But it 0:25:50.887 --> 0:25:54.367 means that you can't, like a couple of years ago, 0:25:54.447 --> 0:25:57.047 Jace had or tried to have a sabbatical for three months, 0:25:57.527 --> 0:25:59.487 and he could have a sabbatical from the business, but 0:25:59.567 --> 0:26:01.247 he couldn't have a sabbatical. 0:26:00.727 --> 0:26:03.687 From his wife, who is also part of the business. 0:26:03.967 --> 0:26:06.607 And so when I would ring him and you know, 0:26:06.647 --> 0:26:08.767 want to talk about something or be upset about something 0:26:09.967 --> 0:26:11.327 that was really hard. 0:26:11.767 --> 0:26:12.487 So it's like he. 0:26:12.447 --> 0:26:15.647 Couldn't get away from me and from me. And since 0:26:15.687 --> 0:26:18.927 we've appointed a new CEO this year and he has 0:26:19.007 --> 0:26:22.207 moved into this role of executive chairman and he is not. 0:26:22.847 --> 0:26:25.807 We don't work together day to day anymore. That's been 0:26:25.887 --> 0:26:31.207 so good. Oh my god, we've rediscovered each other. Wonderful. Yeah, 0:26:31.247 --> 0:26:32.847 it's been wonderful. 0:26:32.647 --> 0:26:35.607 Because there are aspects that you I mean, you just 0:26:35.687 --> 0:26:38.327 can't servi uce all parts at the same time. 0:26:38.727 --> 0:26:41.527 And it's really hard to be in meetings with someone 0:26:41.567 --> 0:26:44.127 you know, so like you behave a certain way at 0:26:44.127 --> 0:26:47.607 home and like you know, when you're partner shitting you, 0:26:47.607 --> 0:26:50.207 you give them a look across the table or you whatever, 0:26:50.407 --> 0:26:53.127 fucked and then we're in meetings and some people here 0:26:53.167 --> 0:26:55.447 have been in those meetings, you know, many years ago 0:26:55.527 --> 0:26:59.087 when we would have discussions, we'd have Barney's about work, 0:26:59.127 --> 0:27:01.047 and they'd be sort of uncomfortable. People get used to 0:27:01.087 --> 0:27:03.327 it pretty quickly. But one time I had to say, 0:27:03.367 --> 0:27:04.887 you know that other people can see the look that 0:27:04.927 --> 0:27:07.007 you're giving me across the table, and he would have 0:27:07.047 --> 0:27:09.047 to say the same to me, because you kind of 0:27:09.087 --> 0:27:11.367 just forget that you've got to behave in a way 0:27:11.927 --> 0:27:15.087 in front of other people. Yes, and it's yeah, it's 0:27:15.287 --> 0:27:18.327 really it's been really challenging. But I'm very proud that 0:27:18.367 --> 0:27:23.367 we are still married, yes, and that we have continued 0:27:23.407 --> 0:27:28.647 to build the business together. And hopefully now that we're 0:27:28.727 --> 0:27:32.247 able to, you know, bring in new people and take 0:27:32.287 --> 0:27:36.007 a step back, it means that we'll be able to 0:27:36.047 --> 0:27:38.567 be married again and also just have some space from 0:27:38.647 --> 0:27:41.927 each other. Yes, you know, y like, it's quite nice 0:27:41.927 --> 0:27:44.087 to get home and go how is your day and 0:27:44.087 --> 0:27:47.167 not know, yeah, you know, that's quite nice looking forward 0:27:47.167 --> 0:27:47.687 to seeing each other. 0:27:47.807 --> 0:27:51.767 Okay, So if your plan is to make some more 0:27:51.807 --> 0:27:54.967 time for yourself, really, and how will you feel that? 0:27:55.007 --> 0:27:56.687 And it's not gonna be empty time if I. 0:27:56.607 --> 0:27:59.887 Know you No, But is that. 0:28:00.007 --> 0:28:03.127 Commensurate with what Jace wants for himself as well? 0:28:03.567 --> 0:28:07.287 The difference is that he loves Mum and Mia and 0:28:08.207 --> 0:28:10.007 our core purpose being to make the world a better 0:28:10.007 --> 0:28:12.287 place for women girls actually came from him. I couldn't 0:28:12.367 --> 0:28:14.407 articulate it, which is very embarrassing because I'm the writer 0:28:14.487 --> 0:28:17.367 in the family, but he was the one. And I 0:28:17.487 --> 0:28:19.247 remember he wrote it down on a piece of paper 0:28:19.287 --> 0:28:20.967 and he's like, I think it's this, And because I 0:28:21.007 --> 0:28:23.407 was more just like, it's the vibe, yes, the women 0:28:23.447 --> 0:28:26.487 and the vibe, because I've like it's the water ice women. 0:28:26.527 --> 0:28:29.487 I couldn't even articulate it, but he could. So he 0:28:29.727 --> 0:28:32.167 obviously feels very strongly about our core purpose, but he's 0:28:32.207 --> 0:28:35.127 got lots of interests and hobbies and things that he 0:28:35.167 --> 0:28:39.687 wants to do outside of Mumma behre well. The problem 0:28:39.727 --> 0:28:41.367 is that my hobby is my work, which is I 0:28:41.407 --> 0:28:44.647 think being one of the big drivers of Muma mea. 0:28:45.167 --> 0:28:49.967 But it makes it very hard to rest, it really does. 0:28:50.047 --> 0:28:53.367 And so for me, the time that I get closest 0:28:53.407 --> 0:28:56.407 to resting is I have a day a week with Luna, 0:28:56.527 --> 0:28:58.407 which being a grandmother is so different to being a 0:28:58.447 --> 0:29:00.727 mother in that you just can be very present because 0:29:00.767 --> 0:29:02.967 it's like one day. I know people say that, yeah, 0:29:03.007 --> 0:29:04.487 I know, I never understood it. 0:29:04.607 --> 0:29:06.767 Yeah I don't understand. I still don't understand that. 0:29:06.927 --> 0:29:10.047 You know, it is all of the same amount of love. 0:29:10.167 --> 0:29:12.047 It's actually really weird because it's all of the same 0:29:12.087 --> 0:29:15.207 amount of love, except they don't live in your house, 0:29:15.247 --> 0:29:17.007 which is kind of wonderful, but. 0:29:16.967 --> 0:29:19.007 Also you're coming to them every time. 0:29:19.887 --> 0:29:22.447 But there's no mental load. There's not one bit of 0:29:22.447 --> 0:29:26.087 mental load. There's no guilt, you know, like I'm not like, 0:29:26.127 --> 0:29:28.647 oh no, what if she hasn't eaten enough vegetables. Yeah right, 0:29:30.367 --> 0:29:32.887 bake beans again like she'ing a bickie. 0:29:32.967 --> 0:29:35.687 Oh else likes just love. It's just love. 0:29:35.767 --> 0:29:38.527 And it's not like she stayed the night. She stays 0:29:38.607 --> 0:29:41.087 night a lot now, but the first time she stayed 0:29:41.087 --> 0:29:43.247 the night, and if she does stay and she wakes 0:29:43.327 --> 0:29:45.367 up in the night when she was a little bit younger, 0:29:46.127 --> 0:29:47.847 and you know that feeling when your baby wakes up 0:29:47.847 --> 0:29:49.487 in the night, or you toddally wakes up the night 0:29:49.527 --> 0:29:52.207 your kid, You've got like there's a lot of feelings. 0:29:52.247 --> 0:29:55.127 It's like irritation and resentment and a bit of panic 0:29:55.167 --> 0:29:56.927 and what if this never what if I never sleep? 0:29:57.287 --> 0:29:59.167 But then you're also plased to see them in. 0:29:59.087 --> 0:30:03.607 A weird well yeah, and then I scanned my body 0:30:03.647 --> 0:30:07.127 for any feelings of any negative feelings. Not one. It 0:30:07.207 --> 0:30:09.727 was just like, yay, we get to sniff a little face, 0:30:09.847 --> 0:30:11.287 I get to like give her a little cuddle and 0:30:11.287 --> 0:30:14.647 give her a bottle, and you, oh, that's been fraught. 0:30:15.007 --> 0:30:17.607 She calls me nana, so I thought I didn't want 0:30:17.647 --> 0:30:20.407 to be called nana. And whole anxiety, which I think 0:30:20.887 --> 0:30:24.727 is really common in people when they become particularly grandmothers, 0:30:25.567 --> 0:30:29.007 because it's about your identity and grand like. It suddenly 0:30:29.007 --> 0:30:31.767 seems very important not to be called nana or grandma, 0:30:31.847 --> 0:30:34.087 because I think what it meant for us was a 0:30:34.127 --> 0:30:36.607 little old lady with gray hair whose life was over. 0:30:37.207 --> 0:30:42.167 And we don't like that. I don't, you know, like me, 0:30:42.967 --> 0:30:48.047 So I don't. Really. This is when I was going 0:30:48.047 --> 0:30:50.047 through my whole identity crisis. I didn't want to be that, 0:30:50.407 --> 0:30:52.207 and so it became very important to not be called 0:30:52.247 --> 0:30:53.327 that and to be called maybe. 0:30:53.247 --> 0:30:55.887 Me and me, I would decide, babies decide, don't. 0:30:56.167 --> 0:30:58.007 Well, she just didn't call me anything. But what you 0:30:58.047 --> 0:31:00.487 don't realize is that, for the first I don't know 0:31:00.567 --> 0:31:04.127 until they can talk, it's not about what they call you, 0:31:04.207 --> 0:31:05.767 or not about what you call yourself. It's about what 0:31:05.807 --> 0:31:06.487 everyone else calls you. 0:31:06.527 --> 0:31:07.087 Because it's like. 0:31:07.287 --> 0:31:09.887 Here, you know, let's here's nana or here you go 0:31:09.967 --> 0:31:12.967 to And so every time they'd say grandma, I die 0:31:13.007 --> 0:31:15.487 a little bit inside, right, And then I just realized, 0:31:15.487 --> 0:31:18.487 stop fucking making trying to make me happen. It's not 0:31:18.527 --> 0:31:21.127 going to happen. No one's calling you that. It's like 0:31:21.167 --> 0:31:22.327 trying to give yourself a nickname. 0:31:22.327 --> 0:31:23.007 It doesn't work. 0:31:23.207 --> 0:31:25.007 Yes, And so I just went, you know, I loved 0:31:25.047 --> 0:31:28.007 my nana so much. My kids call my mum Nana. 0:31:28.527 --> 0:31:30.407 I'm like, I'll be Nana. There's only two people who 0:31:30.447 --> 0:31:31.967 could be Nana, and I'll be one of them. And 0:31:32.007 --> 0:31:34.607 then I had my latest neurosis was that she also 0:31:34.647 --> 0:31:35.807 called Jesse's mum Nana. 0:31:36.247 --> 0:31:37.567 Oh, so how do you different? 0:31:37.767 --> 0:31:40.447 I went into a panic and I'm like, then I 0:31:40.487 --> 0:31:42.967 tried to get her a call because Jesse's mom's so 0:31:42.967 --> 0:31:46.087 so cruizy, and so I'm like, maybe call her Nan. 0:31:46.207 --> 0:31:47.927 And I was trying to control what she called her 0:31:48.607 --> 0:31:51.087 and was just like, knock yourself out, whatever you want 0:31:51.167 --> 0:31:53.847 me to be called. But now she just I tried 0:31:53.887 --> 0:31:56.367 to get her to call and Nan, but she won't, 0:31:56.407 --> 0:31:58.207 and so we're both Nana and I'm just like, who 0:31:58.247 --> 0:31:58.727 gives a shit? 0:31:59.007 --> 0:32:01.247 And you can tell he well, lots. 0:32:01.007 --> 0:32:02.367 Of people I said it on out that and lots 0:32:02.367 --> 0:32:04.967 of it was very funny conversation. Everyone was telling me 0:32:05.047 --> 0:32:07.927 how they they had two nana's, but one was like. 0:32:09.527 --> 0:32:13.967 NANAA husband's got old Nana, We've got old Nana, Lil, 0:32:14.167 --> 0:32:16.727 We've got Nana Ree his mom and Marie. 0:32:16.887 --> 0:32:19.727 So kids work it out. They know the difference. But 0:32:19.927 --> 0:32:22.527 that speaks to my insecurity because I'm all about leaderboards, 0:32:22.527 --> 0:32:25.887 and I was worried that I would be low down 0:32:25.927 --> 0:32:28.527 on the leaderboard of who she loved. This is how 0:32:28.567 --> 0:32:29.407 I think about things. 0:32:29.447 --> 0:32:34.447 Do you think that, because I honestly, if there was 0:32:34.567 --> 0:32:39.127 anyone to delight a child, it's your elf and energy. 0:32:39.327 --> 0:32:42.407 Like seriously, well, maybe it's in security. 0:32:42.567 --> 0:32:44.647 It's insecurity, I guess. But it's also how I make 0:32:44.727 --> 0:32:48.807 sense of the world because I'm sort of chaotic and 0:32:48.847 --> 0:32:51.487 I need to I like rules, and I like to 0:32:51.567 --> 0:32:55.407 know where I stand. I like feedback, I like I 0:32:55.527 --> 0:32:58.247 like knowing things. So I was very much well at 0:32:58.247 --> 0:33:00.807 the top of the leaderboards Jesse and then Luca, and 0:33:00.807 --> 0:33:04.087 then Claire, Jesse's twin sister, and then Anne, Jesse's mom, 0:33:04.407 --> 0:33:08.007 and then maybe me. So I'm like, okay, I'm number five. 0:33:08.207 --> 0:33:14.647 So Anne suggested that I be called Fine, and I 0:33:14.687 --> 0:33:18.167 was like, I got really upset about that, And because anyway, 0:33:18.247 --> 0:33:22.967 it's just I told you often how two years like 0:33:22.967 --> 0:33:26.287 it's been, I've been all over the shop and I've 0:33:26.327 --> 0:33:27.367 not known who I am. 0:33:27.807 --> 0:33:30.287 I think because I've seen you a little bit fleetingly 0:33:30.327 --> 0:33:34.127 in those times and always lovely. Actually but it's felt 0:33:34.127 --> 0:33:39.327 to me like you're rebuilding. Yes, that's exactly right. 0:33:39.807 --> 0:33:44.367 I could see it like being in a crystalis yeah yeah, yeah, 0:33:44.407 --> 0:33:46.807 and not that I was a caterpillar and now in butterfly. 0:33:46.887 --> 0:33:49.407 It's not like that, but it was like it was 0:33:49.447 --> 0:33:53.047 a different phase of my life and a different you know, 0:33:53.127 --> 0:33:54.847 it doesn't You don't just go from one chapter to 0:33:54.847 --> 0:33:55.487 the next chapter. 0:33:55.887 --> 0:34:00.487 And transitions are very painful and no matter where they are, 0:34:00.647 --> 0:34:03.607 A new job, new, like anything's. 0:34:03.127 --> 0:34:06.527 Very hard, very hard you leave behind and fear. But 0:34:06.567 --> 0:34:09.767 stepping into the unknown is always uncertainty. I'm not good 0:34:09.767 --> 0:34:13.727 with any of that. I'm really not good with. Butmala, 0:34:14.047 --> 0:34:14.367 I don't. 0:34:14.407 --> 0:34:17.767 I think most people aren't. I just think you expect 0:34:17.927 --> 0:34:22.327 more of yourself. I get very impatient. I'm like, what 0:34:22.447 --> 0:34:24.407 am I going to again? I know on the side, 0:34:24.487 --> 0:34:25.887 are we there yet? Are we there yet? Am I 0:34:25.927 --> 0:34:28.167 in this new phase yet? Do I understand who I am? 0:34:28.247 --> 0:34:28.527 Yet? 0:34:28.927 --> 0:34:31.687 And it was years of not not knowing what I 0:34:31.727 --> 0:34:34.887 wanted not knowing, and I just find that very inefficient. 0:34:38.127 --> 0:34:42.527 Mayor Friedman, please stay till after this weebreak twisted my own. 0:34:49.087 --> 0:34:52.207 I'm just thinking about what you've built and I mean, 0:34:52.247 --> 0:34:57.007 you built it for women, women and girls, but I 0:34:57.047 --> 0:34:59.487 think the woman and the girl that you built it 0:34:59.527 --> 0:35:03.247 for was yourself, Because do you know what I mean? 0:35:03.287 --> 0:35:06.567 If you think about if you think about the conversations 0:35:06.567 --> 0:35:10.087 that happen every day, in the things that everyone exposed 0:35:10.087 --> 0:35:13.007 to and that you bring to people, and the little 0:35:13.127 --> 0:35:16.167 nugget of cheese or the dead mouse that the cat 0:35:16.287 --> 0:35:21.167 leaves at the doorstep, all of that seems like it 0:35:21.287 --> 0:35:26.247 might have been for you to find yourself or to 0:35:26.367 --> 0:35:27.927 bring something to yourself. 0:35:28.767 --> 0:35:33.527 Yes, I think because I am so basic, I'm very common, 0:35:34.087 --> 0:35:36.487 and I say that in a way like I'm very 0:35:38.167 --> 0:35:41.247 i am very ordinary, And the things that I feel 0:35:41.487 --> 0:35:44.047 and the things that I'm interested in are not the 0:35:44.087 --> 0:35:46.287 things that everybody feels and they're interested in. But a 0:35:46.327 --> 0:35:49.807 lot of people feel and are interested in those things too. 0:35:50.647 --> 0:35:54.527 So often I'm always an observer of my own behavior, 0:35:54.567 --> 0:35:56.847 and I know that when my behavior is shifting from 0:35:56.847 --> 0:36:00.247 a consumer point of view, a content likely that correct. 0:36:00.487 --> 0:36:02.727 So like when I didn't know how to start a 0:36:02.727 --> 0:36:04.727 business and I started a lady startup, or when I 0:36:04.847 --> 0:36:07.527 was interested in perimenopause but there was nothing out there 0:36:07.527 --> 0:36:10.127 and it felt very uncool and we started the very 0:36:10.167 --> 0:36:12.767 we did the very Perry Summit, and it's kind of like, 0:36:12.807 --> 0:36:14.607 what's next, What's next? 0:36:15.047 --> 0:36:18.127 What is next? I'm working on something. 0:36:18.967 --> 0:36:22.607 Yeah, I'm working on a little secret thing. Oh and 0:36:22.647 --> 0:36:27.327 it's not secret because I'm Bankoi. It's secret because I 0:36:27.647 --> 0:36:30.367 just want to see what it is like. One of 0:36:30.367 --> 0:36:33.167 the things I find I'm not suited to being in 0:36:33.207 --> 0:36:35.727 a business of this size. I'm just not. I don't 0:36:35.767 --> 0:36:38.527 have the patience for it. I don't have I just 0:36:38.767 --> 0:36:41.967 I don't want to be in meetings and I have 0:36:42.047 --> 0:36:43.767 to go through layers and you need all of that 0:36:43.807 --> 0:36:47.647 at a company this size. You need processes and layers 0:36:47.687 --> 0:36:50.607 and strategies and schedules. I just want to work on 0:36:50.647 --> 0:36:54.407 a little couple of little things and it's still a 0:36:54.407 --> 0:36:59.247 bit embryonic. And until it's done, I don't commercialize it. 0:36:59.287 --> 0:37:01.287 I don't want to and don't jinx it. It's not 0:37:01.327 --> 0:37:05.167 even jinxing it. It's just that I'll kind of lose 0:37:05.527 --> 0:37:09.607 energy for it and lose interest in it because because 0:37:10.007 --> 0:37:14.167 you know, the economics of making content is that it'll 0:37:14.167 --> 0:37:15.887 have to be sold and it will have to be sponsored, 0:37:15.927 --> 0:37:17.487 and we'll have to you know, we'll have to work 0:37:17.487 --> 0:37:20.167 out when in the schedule it should happen, and blah 0:37:20.207 --> 0:37:22.767 blah blah, and all of that I completely understand because 0:37:22.807 --> 0:37:24.967 I think a lot of people don't get that content 0:37:25.087 --> 0:37:26.287 costs money to create. 0:37:27.407 --> 0:37:30.127 You know why now, because we're used to getting it 0:37:30.167 --> 0:37:33.487 for nothing. Yes, people don't even buy a newspaper anymore. 0:37:33.567 --> 0:37:35.447 But do you know what we pay money for water? 0:37:35.847 --> 0:37:40.447 We understand that water cost money, and yet content is 0:37:40.527 --> 0:37:44.847 really undervalued. And I think that's both the best and 0:37:44.887 --> 0:37:47.127 worst thing about the Internet. You know, it's democratized who 0:37:47.127 --> 0:37:49.007 can make content, which I think is wonderful. I couldn't 0:37:49.047 --> 0:37:51.727 have built a media company without the Internet with Jays, 0:37:51.767 --> 0:37:55.247 but you know I couldn't. I couldn't buy a TV 0:37:55.407 --> 0:37:58.327 license or you know, start my own magazine, buy a 0:37:58.327 --> 0:37:59.527 TV license. 0:37:59.167 --> 0:38:02.287 Now these yeah, exactly, get one for a hundred bars. 0:38:03.367 --> 0:38:06.007 But that's been good. But the bad thing is that 0:38:06.047 --> 0:38:09.647 people think that it doesn't take time and effort and 0:38:10.007 --> 0:38:13.487 expertise to create good quality Yes. 0:38:13.567 --> 0:38:17.127 And this is good quality content, really good quality content. 0:38:18.047 --> 0:38:20.807 Like if I think about the things that I've got 0:38:21.087 --> 0:38:23.167 through Mama Mia, and I've not been the most avid 0:38:23.207 --> 0:38:26.247 consumer of anything online, particularly not through those years of 0:38:27.807 --> 0:38:30.967 intense child rearing and stuff and leukemia and all of that. 0:38:31.287 --> 0:38:31.967 So I wasn't. 0:38:32.007 --> 0:38:34.607 I've just been like, a, how do you think that 0:38:34.607 --> 0:38:39.447 that experience of having your eldest get leukemia? How do 0:38:39.527 --> 0:38:43.247 you think, because I know you're not a very online person, No, 0:38:44.007 --> 0:38:45.767 how do you think it would have been made either 0:38:45.847 --> 0:38:50.287 better or worse by having the internet at that time? 0:38:50.487 --> 0:38:52.527 Both for community, because I know a lot of people 0:38:52.527 --> 0:38:55.167 who've either the loved ones with cancer of cancer themselves 0:38:56.407 --> 0:39:00.127 who whether it's group chats, you know, what was your 0:39:00.287 --> 0:39:02.327 village through that time. Because you're a said to keep 0:39:02.327 --> 0:39:03.327 it secret. 0:39:03.807 --> 0:39:08.287 Yes, well secret, not to our friends and not to 0:39:08.327 --> 0:39:11.927 our neighbors, not to in fact, most of the people 0:39:11.967 --> 0:39:13.247 in the media knew about it. 0:39:13.287 --> 0:39:16.487 I found that extraordinary. I didn't know about it, and 0:39:16.527 --> 0:39:17.847 not that we knew each other well. 0:39:17.687 --> 0:39:20.007 Then, and I was in Melbourne, you're in city, yes, But. 0:39:19.967 --> 0:39:23.127 The fact that the media, particularly the Melbourne media, knew 0:39:23.327 --> 0:39:25.327 and it was such an open secret and everybody kept 0:39:25.367 --> 0:39:29.327 it quiet four years, I thought was such a tribute 0:39:29.527 --> 0:39:34.007 to how you're the esteem in which you're held in 0:39:34.047 --> 0:39:37.127 our industry because that was a big story. 0:39:37.607 --> 0:39:40.047 It was a big story, really, and at the time 0:39:40.887 --> 0:39:44.767 I think I mean talk about hanging by three, and 0:39:44.807 --> 0:39:48.447 I don't think I had the energy to even address it. 0:39:48.967 --> 0:39:51.007 And it was twofold. It was partly that it was 0:39:51.087 --> 0:39:54.047 Lewis and eldest son, who was six when he was diagnosed, 0:39:54.127 --> 0:40:01.167 and partly it was not our story to tell. We 0:40:01.167 --> 0:40:05.527 were like the custodian of him through this terrible time. 0:40:06.687 --> 0:40:09.847 But also I didn't have the energy, didn't even have 0:40:09.927 --> 0:40:13.047 the energy to like sometimes if I'd bump into someone 0:40:13.127 --> 0:40:15.847 I saw and they'd go house Lewis, I didn't even 0:40:15.927 --> 0:40:18.887 have that. Oh so the thought of taking on then 0:40:19.127 --> 0:40:22.847 the media aspect of it was completely. 0:40:22.327 --> 0:40:25.327 You had this circle that closed around you. But similar 0:40:25.367 --> 0:40:27.727 to you know, so self indulgent me saying I was 0:40:27.767 --> 0:40:29.647 so burnt out and it was so hard deciding what 0:40:29.687 --> 0:40:31.927 to be called. You had a child that was battling 0:40:31.967 --> 0:40:33.847 cancer and you had to turn up at work on 0:40:33.927 --> 0:40:36.247 breakfast radio every single day. It's not like you could 0:40:36.247 --> 0:40:37.607 say I'm taking a year off. No. 0:40:37.887 --> 0:40:41.927 But also this is why I understand what you're saying 0:40:42.087 --> 0:40:47.007 about work. Work is a salvation. Work is a salvation 0:40:47.327 --> 0:40:49.007 for us. I mean, yeah, it is for us, and 0:40:49.007 --> 0:40:52.087 it was for me, and it just to have a 0:40:52.127 --> 0:40:54.527 place where, and I didn't tune up every day. And 0:40:54.567 --> 0:40:57.847 there were a couple of people that were just so fantastic, 0:40:57.887 --> 0:41:01.167 other comedians who were like call us at any time, 0:41:01.287 --> 0:41:04.607 you know, Mick malloy and Helliah and will be there. 0:41:04.687 --> 0:41:07.807 They had your back. Yeah, they were fantastic. I was 0:41:07.847 --> 0:41:11.767 doing breakfast Radio with Hughesy in Melbourne at the time, 0:41:12.327 --> 0:41:15.847 but there were times when it would be the only time. 0:41:15.967 --> 0:41:19.007 Sometimes I'd only get in there once for the week, right, 0:41:19.727 --> 0:41:22.287 and it would be the only time in the week 0:41:22.927 --> 0:41:27.167 that wasn't about cancer, the only time. And so even 0:41:27.207 --> 0:41:30.087 though I was a bit wobbly, I was very hollow inside. 0:41:30.567 --> 0:41:32.927 But the muscles that you train, and I think this 0:41:33.047 --> 0:41:35.007 in life anyway, and I always say it to my children, 0:41:36.007 --> 0:41:39.407 the muscles that you train will be your strongest muscles. 0:41:39.647 --> 0:41:42.927 And because I had been doing breakfast radio for so 0:41:43.087 --> 0:41:46.207 many years, and doing breakfast radio you have to wake 0:41:46.287 --> 0:41:49.207 up whistling and it's like you coming into the office here. 0:41:49.447 --> 0:41:49.767 Yeah. 0:41:49.807 --> 0:41:54.927 So my muscles to be optimistic, to be cheerful, to 0:41:55.007 --> 0:41:58.967 be funny, yeah, and to be and to enjoy the 0:41:59.007 --> 0:42:03.487 world are very strong muscles. And so I get really 0:42:03.527 --> 0:42:06.847 annoyed in my household when people are grumpy. I hate 0:42:06.927 --> 0:42:08.727 fucking bad mood people. 0:42:08.927 --> 0:42:12.807 Yep, but you're not. That's interesting because the downside of 0:42:12.847 --> 0:42:14.767 that is toxic positivity. But you're not that. 0:42:15.527 --> 0:42:17.127 What is toxic positivity? 0:42:17.407 --> 0:42:20.287 That's kind of like look at the bright side. 0:42:20.407 --> 0:42:23.807 Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, no, no, I no, I don't 0:42:23.847 --> 0:42:27.847 think I'm that it's like forcing everybody to not be 0:42:27.967 --> 0:42:30.487 able to experience their full range of emotions. 0:42:30.727 --> 0:42:32.847 You're not that, because that can be quite controlling and 0:42:32.927 --> 0:42:33.567 quite toxic. 0:42:33.927 --> 0:42:38.407 No, but I think it's more about, certainly breakfast radio, 0:42:38.447 --> 0:42:41.487 which is probably a metaphor for life. You're waking up 0:42:41.527 --> 0:42:47.207 to the world. My job is to give listeners the 0:42:47.247 --> 0:42:51.727 gift of faith. Faith in the day, faith that everything 0:42:51.767 --> 0:42:54.767 will be all right, Faith that you are not alone 0:42:54.967 --> 0:42:58.087 going through this, Faith that once you get out there, 0:42:58.127 --> 0:43:00.727 it's going to be great. It'll be fine. It won't 0:43:00.727 --> 0:43:03.847 be without challenges, but you're going to be fine because 0:43:03.887 --> 0:43:07.927 you've got me, you've got him, we've got us. And 0:43:07.967 --> 0:43:13.287 that also things in the world that might be ludicrous, 0:43:13.367 --> 0:43:17.927 that might be frightening if you stop, if you don't 0:43:18.007 --> 0:43:20.207 walk into the dark room with your eyes shut because 0:43:20.247 --> 0:43:21.847 you're scared of what you see. But if you open, 0:43:21.967 --> 0:43:23.887 actually open your eyes and you look across the room. 0:43:23.927 --> 0:43:28.967 There's someone else there. You can turn that moment into 0:43:29.047 --> 0:43:30.847 something humorous. 0:43:30.927 --> 0:43:33.087 So who is that for you? If you were that 0:43:33.247 --> 0:43:35.927 for everyone during that dark time? Who is that for you? 0:43:38.207 --> 0:43:45.207 Uh? My mother in law, Marie Peter's mum Peter to 0:43:45.287 --> 0:43:47.727 a certain extent. But that was also very hard. That 0:43:47.887 --> 0:43:51.887 was you know, a lot of relationships break up. Yeah. Yeah, 0:43:51.927 --> 0:43:56.287 and kids also, I'm very you know, cognizant of the 0:43:56.287 --> 0:43:58.687 fact we had a good outcome, so. 0:43:59.727 --> 0:44:00.727 And us touching. 0:44:00.887 --> 0:44:04.447 Yeah, and the people that didn't, the children that fell 0:44:04.527 --> 0:44:05.287 along the way. 0:44:05.687 --> 0:44:10.167 Would you sometimes in breaks just cry or you would 0:44:10.207 --> 0:44:12.127 just be in there and you would be like, right, 0:44:12.887 --> 0:44:14.887 the shutters are coming up or they're coming down, but 0:44:15.047 --> 0:44:16.087 I'm like no. 0:44:16.207 --> 0:44:18.847 In the break, we'd be talking about what was going on. 0:44:19.167 --> 0:44:19.487 Here's it. 0:44:19.487 --> 0:44:21.207 At some point go say, how are things? 0:44:21.287 --> 0:44:22.287 How's it? Louis? 0:44:23.487 --> 0:44:24.887 We talk about it, and then. 0:44:24.807 --> 0:44:27.127 You would just clicking to gear and click out. 0:44:27.207 --> 0:44:32.047 Sometimes sometimes it was not not so much clicky, but 0:44:32.407 --> 0:44:37.487 you just have to start the scene again. What are 0:44:37.527 --> 0:44:39.327 you going to do? Four years? 0:44:39.487 --> 0:44:40.247 Oh? Fuck? 0:44:40.487 --> 0:44:43.047 In my head it was two four. 0:44:42.807 --> 0:44:45.727 Years for boys because of the Lakini he had because 0:44:45.727 --> 0:44:50.407 it hides. It hides in the lining, in the in 0:44:50.447 --> 0:44:53.567 the spinal cord, and in the brain lining, and in boys, 0:44:53.607 --> 0:44:57.927 in the testicles. So for girls the treatment is some 0:44:57.967 --> 0:45:01.767 good news. For girls, the treatment's much shorter the girls. 0:45:01.807 --> 0:45:05.567 Four yeah, boys, yeah, four years four years of chema, 0:45:05.687 --> 0:45:09.207 yeah yeah, lumber punctures. 0:45:09.567 --> 0:45:11.807 You had more children in that time, didn't you. 0:45:11.607 --> 0:45:15.887 Know I'd had I'd had Yarny. My youngest was five 0:45:15.927 --> 0:45:18.687 months old when Lewis was diagnosed, so we had four 0:45:18.767 --> 0:45:24.807 under six, And so when Lewis was diagnosed, I had 0:45:24.807 --> 0:45:28.687 to stop feeding Yarni obviously our youngest, and like it 0:45:28.727 --> 0:45:31.407 was just like our daughter went to school too soon, 0:45:31.807 --> 0:45:34.407 because it was like, everybody's got to get out of 0:45:34.407 --> 0:45:35.767 the house because we're going to be at the hospital. 0:45:35.807 --> 0:45:37.967 Everyone's got to get on with things. Chop chop, Like 0:45:38.047 --> 0:45:41.287 it was a bit like that, and we didn't mean 0:45:41.367 --> 0:45:43.847 to be brutal, but it did. There was a period 0:45:43.887 --> 0:45:46.767 in which anyone else's ailment. 0:45:48.647 --> 0:45:49.607 Not a lot of sympathy. 0:45:49.927 --> 0:45:52.767 Yeah, because at one stage, Yanni, this is the worst 0:45:52.767 --> 0:45:55.847 thing in the world, had a broken wrist for two 0:45:55.927 --> 0:45:59.487 days and we didn't realize it because it wasn't lukemia 0:45:59.527 --> 0:46:01.647 and it was only when Ray came over and she 0:46:01.727 --> 0:46:05.167 grabbed him to swing him around by his you know, 0:46:05.287 --> 0:46:07.767 grabbed him his hands to swing him in a circle, 0:46:07.807 --> 0:46:12.087 and he let out this curdling yelp and it had 0:46:12.087 --> 0:46:15.007 a broken wrist from where he jumped off the bottom stamp. 0:46:15.087 --> 0:46:20.767 And how did you find the because you know, the 0:46:20.767 --> 0:46:24.727 squeaky wheel gets the oil, so you know, you are 0:46:25.207 --> 0:46:30.247 biologically programmed to focus all your attention on the weakest 0:46:30.287 --> 0:46:31.247 link and the most. 0:46:31.087 --> 0:46:32.687 Vulnerable, which was loose for four years. 0:46:32.767 --> 0:46:39.007 Yes, So at what point did that stop? Like, how 0:46:39.007 --> 0:46:42.527 did you get to the point where you trusted his 0:46:42.687 --> 0:46:46.167 recovery and you could look at your other kids and 0:46:46.207 --> 0:46:49.727 go mmm, I mean, I'm sure it wasn't like a 0:46:50.127 --> 0:46:53.127 click up thing, but how did you navigate that? 0:46:53.607 --> 0:46:58.087 So when Lewis finished treatment, we stopped doing breakfast radio 0:46:58.167 --> 0:47:02.407 after twelve years men husy and he wanted to do 0:47:02.487 --> 0:47:05.127 more stand up, which is the opposite of you know. 0:47:05.287 --> 0:47:06.287 Did you want to keep going? 0:47:07.127 --> 0:47:09.967 No? No, I didn't want to keep going, but I 0:47:10.007 --> 0:47:12.327 was happy for him to make the decision. I went unhappy. 0:47:12.327 --> 0:47:13.927 Whatever you want, why didn't you want to keep going? 0:47:13.927 --> 0:47:15.247 The money is amazing. 0:47:15.447 --> 0:47:18.367 Because I wanted to have a time at home with 0:47:18.487 --> 0:47:26.007 yarny apropos around school. Yes, exactly, because he had been 0:47:26.247 --> 0:47:28.887 like from the womb untimely ripped or from the boob 0:47:29.007 --> 0:47:31.927 untimely ripped. And I was always conscious of the fact 0:47:31.967 --> 0:47:34.927 that we had this little one who I had really 0:47:34.927 --> 0:47:38.687 not got to spend much time with her. If I did, 0:47:38.687 --> 0:47:43.047 it was in between hospital visits, and you know, so 0:47:43.567 --> 0:47:45.487 I took that. It turned out to be a year. 0:47:45.567 --> 0:47:46.887 I didn't know how long it was going to be. 0:47:47.727 --> 0:47:50.527 We finished during breakfast Radio, had a gorgeous farewell. It 0:47:50.567 --> 0:47:53.167 was just beautiful, and I thought it might be forever. 0:47:53.327 --> 0:47:58.247 You know, when you stry you No, it didn't worry me. No, 0:47:58.367 --> 0:47:59.447 it didn't worry me. 0:48:00.047 --> 0:48:02.127 But you went from making all of this money like 0:48:02.207 --> 0:48:05.767 the Breakfast Radio particularly then not so much now, but 0:48:05.847 --> 0:48:09.967 then big best and biggest and most high profile. You 0:48:10.007 --> 0:48:14.207 guys were iconic. Yeah, did you feel the need or 0:48:14.247 --> 0:48:15.527 you just felt I need to. 0:48:15.527 --> 0:48:16.647 Just catch my breath? 0:48:16.687 --> 0:48:18.207 Now, I think so. 0:48:18.287 --> 0:48:22.127 And then Peter uttered a phrase which as a modern woman, 0:48:22.327 --> 0:48:24.927 I had never heard in my life, and it was 0:48:24.967 --> 0:48:27.967 one of the greatest things any man has. It is 0:48:28.007 --> 0:48:32.207 the greatest thing any man's ever said to me, He said, darling, 0:48:32.367 --> 0:48:34.847 you don't have to work. I can look after both 0:48:34.847 --> 0:48:35.207 of us. 0:48:36.807 --> 0:48:42.767 My wowd oh, my god, suck it suck. 0:48:44.127 --> 0:48:47.607 It's like so and I remember at the time, had 0:48:47.607 --> 0:48:50.527 you been the breadwinner before that, Yeah, you wear a 0:48:50.527 --> 0:48:53.207 lot of bread. Yeah, and you need a lot of 0:48:53.247 --> 0:48:57.327 bread for six people, Yeah, you do. And so we'd 0:48:57.367 --> 0:48:59.967 made one of those decisions, you know, the you know, 0:49:00.127 --> 0:49:03.487 practical decision that because I would earn more money than him, 0:49:03.567 --> 0:49:04.327 that he would. 0:49:04.807 --> 0:49:07.007 So he did that. Probably he was at home for 0:49:07.167 --> 0:49:11.447 probably about eighteen months, and then it just wasn't good 0:49:11.527 --> 0:49:13.487 for him. It was never a point of he was 0:49:13.487 --> 0:49:15.087 never like I don't want to do this. He was 0:49:15.127 --> 0:49:19.767 never resentful or whatever. But I'm just like, working man 0:49:20.127 --> 0:49:23.247 wasn't enough for he needs to work. Yeah, like a 0:49:23.287 --> 0:49:29.487 working dog needs to work. Yeah, so I'm working, I 0:49:29.567 --> 0:49:30.167 need to work. 0:49:30.327 --> 0:49:31.167 Yeah. Yeah. 0:49:31.207 --> 0:49:34.287 So anyway, so it actually gave me the liberty to 0:49:34.367 --> 0:49:38.127 say I'm going to be at home. I'm going to 0:49:38.127 --> 0:49:40.367 be at home. And it was such a great It 0:49:40.447 --> 0:49:43.727 only ended up being one year, and it was a 0:49:43.847 --> 0:49:47.807 very challenging year from what I recall, well, because I 0:49:47.847 --> 0:49:48.367 was at home. 0:49:49.047 --> 0:49:50.927 Yeah, I was going to say, careful, what you wish 0:49:51.847 --> 0:49:56.047 I was at home. Yeah, did you feel irrelevant? 0:49:57.887 --> 0:50:00.567 I probably felt more irrelevant when we went and lived initially, 0:50:01.207 --> 0:50:04.007 when we were in an Italian class and I said, 0:50:04.807 --> 0:50:07.487 and I thought, I was so proud with myself. I said, 0:50:07.567 --> 0:50:12.967 I'm I'm Mollieri, Cassa or whatever. I'm housewife. And if 0:50:13.007 --> 0:50:15.887 I said that in Australia, at least a couple of people. 0:50:15.647 --> 0:50:18.047 In the road laugh and go, oh yeah, katling Brook, 0:50:19.167 --> 0:50:21.567 because they're like, yeah, it wasn't ironic. 0:50:21.927 --> 0:50:25.407 She's a housewife. Yeah. Interesting. 0:50:25.487 --> 0:50:27.327 So that was like a stripping back of ego because 0:50:27.327 --> 0:50:28.047 nobody knew you. 0:50:28.047 --> 0:50:33.567 That totally very great. I heartily recommend it, heartily. That's 0:50:33.567 --> 0:50:37.367 why I do yoga because I need I need the humiliation. 0:50:38.447 --> 0:50:42.087 Yes, that's true. To having teenagers, what do you do 0:50:42.687 --> 0:50:43.807 we're having teenage. 0:50:43.527 --> 0:50:45.047 I don't count them. I don't count that. 0:50:46.327 --> 0:50:47.807 I don't count too high. 0:50:47.967 --> 0:50:51.407 Terrible time. Yeah, grown up children. I know, I bring you, 0:50:52.687 --> 0:50:55.167 but I just don't. I can't take that on. It's 0:50:55.247 --> 0:50:58.327 like women. You know, when you go shopping with a 0:50:58.367 --> 0:51:00.887 teenage daughter. You see it all the time at any 0:51:00.927 --> 0:51:07.007 Westfield and there's a woman with a certain posture. Yeah, yeah, 0:51:07.047 --> 0:51:12.407 and the girls with it, and I'm just like, what 0:51:12.447 --> 0:51:13.407 are we doing? 0:51:13.807 --> 0:51:16.207 You do get through that? Like I'm now at the 0:51:16.247 --> 0:51:17.567 point because I know what you mean. 0:51:17.647 --> 0:51:18.007 I've done. 0:51:18.487 --> 0:51:20.207 I didn't realize that you would ever get through it. 0:51:20.247 --> 0:51:23.047 But my daughter, who just turned nineteen, now we can 0:51:23.087 --> 0:51:25.447 go shopping and it's delightful. I think our girls are 0:51:25.447 --> 0:51:28.687 the same as it's delightful and I will actually ask 0:51:28.727 --> 0:51:32.247 her advice and she'll give it to me without making 0:51:32.247 --> 0:51:33.407 me feel like a piece of shit. 0:51:33.527 --> 0:51:36.847 Yeah, because I noticed, because I'm always I think too 0:51:37.127 --> 0:51:40.287 maybe too aware of not giving them too much power, 0:51:40.567 --> 0:51:42.167 because you don't want to end up being one of 0:51:42.207 --> 0:51:46.727 those women whose self esteem has just been totally strip 0:51:46.847 --> 0:51:50.327 mind like a sloth scratching at a tree truck. There's 0:51:50.487 --> 0:51:53.647 nothing left because they've had years of should I wear this? 0:51:53.847 --> 0:51:55.647 And the door's going were the gray one? 0:51:55.887 --> 0:51:58.047 Yeah? No, No, I can't give away too much. 0:51:58.087 --> 0:52:02.687 You can't, can't. Power is very important, and no matter 0:52:02.727 --> 0:52:07.767 where you find that power, like you might be the nurturer, 0:52:07.887 --> 0:52:11.367 you might be the cook, you might be the one 0:52:11.367 --> 0:52:14.527 who's magical with the grandchildren. You might be doesn't matter, 0:52:14.927 --> 0:52:17.607 but you need to have a little patch of territory 0:52:17.887 --> 0:52:23.167 that's yours, and now I've got your fucking patch of territory. God, 0:52:24.327 --> 0:52:27.407 thank god, no one will try not to break ash. 0:52:27.447 --> 0:52:29.407 You're so good at this. I can't think of anyone 0:52:29.687 --> 0:52:32.447 who is going to be better. I can't wait to 0:52:32.447 --> 0:52:35.327 be listening every single week. And what an honor to 0:52:35.367 --> 0:52:39.367 be your first guest. Literally no one else in the building. 0:52:41.967 --> 0:52:46.967 Anyway. I love you, I love you, enjoy your secret 0:52:47.007 --> 0:52:48.887 square well and some suns. 0:52:49.047 --> 0:52:50.367 You'll be the first one to know. 0:52:56.367 --> 0:53:01.207 So Maya has left the building and you are now 0:53:01.247 --> 0:53:07.407 in my culpable hands. Come back me. Oh no, she's gone. 0:53:08.367 --> 0:53:11.487 I'll see you next way. The executive producer of No 0:53:11.607 --> 0:53:18.527 Filter is Naima Brown, Senior producer Grace ruverret producer Charlie Blackman, 0:53:18.967 --> 0:53:23.967 Audio production and sound design by Jacob Brown. And I'm 0:53:24.007 --> 0:53:26.007 your host Caitline Brook.