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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma MIA's twice daily news podcast,

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Speaker 1: The Quikie. How often are you having sex with your partner?

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Speaker 1: It's a question women have been asked, or have questioned

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Speaker 1: themselves over forever. But have we ever stopped to wonder

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Speaker 1: if asking ourselves that question at all might be part

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Speaker 1: of the problem. Today, The Quikie is taking you to

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Speaker 1: sex therapy to find out what questions people are really

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Speaker 1: asking when they're one on one with their therapist, whether

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Speaker 1: we're all having the same issues, or if we all

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Speaker 1: need to hear the same thing.

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Speaker 2: Don't worry about that freaky fantasy.

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Speaker 1: You're fine, but first here's the letters from the Quokie Newsroom. Thursday,

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Speaker 1: August fifteenth, the World Health Organization has declared MPOX a

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Speaker 1: global public health emergency for the second time, following an

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Speaker 1: outbreak in the Democratic Republic of Congo that has spread

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Speaker 1: to no gaboring countries. As of June, there have been

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Speaker 1: sixty seven cases of empos in Australia this year, with

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Speaker 1: forty five of those in Victoria. The viral infection spread

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Speaker 1: through close skin to skin contacts, such as during sex,

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Speaker 1: as well as contact with contaminated items or surfaces. It

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Speaker 1: causes flu like symptoms before pass filled lesions break out

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Speaker 1: across the body. The variant that is currently spreading in

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Speaker 1: the Democratic Republic of Congo, Burundi, Kenya, Rwanda and Uganda

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Speaker 1: appears to spread more easily than the twenty twenty two version,

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Speaker 1: when it was called monkey Pocks and largely spread through

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Speaker 1: sexual contact between men. Hamas say they will not take

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Speaker 1: part in a new round of Gaza ceasefire talks in Qatar,

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Speaker 1: but mediators will consult with the Palestinian group afterwards. Hamas

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Speaker 1: committed to a proposal presented to them on July two,

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Speaker 1: which is based on the UN Security Council resolution and

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Speaker 1: a speech from US President Joe Biden. A senior Hamas

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Speaker 1: official says going to new negotiations allows the occupation to

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Speaker 1: impose new conditions and employ the maze of non negotiations

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Speaker 1: to conduct more massacres. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has

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Speaker 1: approved the departure of his country's delegation to head to Doha.

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Speaker 1: For the Talks. Tennis star Naomi Osaka has admitted since

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Speaker 1: returning to the court after having a baby last year,

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Speaker 1: she doesn't feel like she's in her own body yet.

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Speaker 1: Osaka returned to tennis in January after the birth of

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Speaker 1: her daughter, Shy in June last year. The twenty six

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Speaker 1: year old not able to make it past the quarter

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Speaker 1: finals of any tournament this season, taking to Instagram to

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Speaker 1: reveal she doesn't feel like she's in her body, a

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Speaker 1: strange feeling, she says when she's missing ball she shouldn't.

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Speaker 1: Comparing the feeling to being postpartum, she says the thing

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Speaker 1: that scares her is that she's been playing tennis since

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Speaker 1: she was three and the racket should feel like an

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Speaker 1: extension of her hand, as simple as breathing, but it's not.

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Speaker 1: She's said to play in the US Open later this

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Speaker 1: month in New York, a competition she's won twice. Gymnastics

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Speaker 1: legend Simone Biles has added another trophy to her collection,

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Speaker 1: but not of the sporting kind, revealing her parents have

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Speaker 1: bought her an Irmez Bank. The Paris Games three time

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Speaker 1: gold and one silver medallist posted on threads my parents

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Speaker 1: bought me my ermeaz bag. Don't be mad at me,

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Speaker 1: be mad at your parents. On Friday, she posted a

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Speaker 1: pick of a wall of cream and tan colored Ermez

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Speaker 1: birken bags, and then a photo of an Erme's orange

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Speaker 1: box sitting on a table. Depending on the material, size,

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Speaker 1: and color, burken bags can cost more than ten thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: Us Files also had her iconic goat necklace made in Paris,

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Speaker 1: the company who made the five hundred and forty six

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Speaker 1: diamond three D goat piece saying they'll never make another one.

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Speaker 1: It's a one of a kind creation. That's what's happening

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Speaker 1: in the world today. Next, what does sex therapy look like?

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Speaker 1: Could we all benefit from it? Or should we stop

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Speaker 1: worrying about how much sex we're having for once and

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Speaker 1: for all. Emily Vernon is a writer at Mamma Mia

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Speaker 1: and co host of our daily entertainment podcast, The Spill.

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Speaker 1: She recently surveyed the Mummamea audience to find out exactly

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Speaker 1: how much sex women in long term relationships are having,

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Speaker 1: and this is what she found out.

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Speaker 3: So I interviewed about twenty women, all completely anonymous and

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Speaker 3: all different ages. Majority of them were between thirty and fifty,

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Speaker 3: and I was quite surprised at all the answers because

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Speaker 3: they were so varied. Like I always assumed that the

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Speaker 3: frequency women have sex who are in long term relationships

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Speaker 3: would be quite similar depending on their age, but all

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Speaker 3: of these women had completely different answers. So many of

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Speaker 3: them were saying that they scheduled sex because of their kids.

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Speaker 3: So many of them said that they've always been spontaneous.

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Speaker 3: I had a few answers where they said that they

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Speaker 3: had a higher sex drive than their partner and vice versa,

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Speaker 3: so it was kind of mismatched. I also got a

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Speaker 3: few answers of women saying that the frequency of them

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Speaker 3: having sex changed once they hit Perry menopause, which I

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Speaker 3: thought was really interesting, similar to women who have gone

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Speaker 3: on medicaid. I think just the varied answers were so interesting,

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Speaker 3: and I think that's why so many people resonated with

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Speaker 3: this article in particular, because when you read the headline,

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Speaker 3: you click into it because you think in your head

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Speaker 3: that there should be a correct answer for you being

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Speaker 3: in a long term relationship, and I think everyone felt

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Speaker 3: a bit at ease to see that there isn't. It's

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Speaker 3: just so different across the board.

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Speaker 1: After reading articles like this, we may still find ourselves

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Speaker 1: thinking that what we're experiencing isn't normal, that maybe we're

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Speaker 1: a bit broken in the bedroom and need some help.

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Speaker 1: But who do you turn to? Are sex therapist's actually

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Speaker 1: a thing? Where do you even start? Sex therapy? For

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Speaker 1: many of us has only ever existed on a movie

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Speaker 1: or TV screen. Think Julian Anderson's character Gene in Sex Education,

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Speaker 1: who's probably the most accurate pop culture depiction of what

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Speaker 1: a sex therapist does. If you mind us writing a

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Speaker 1: book about her teenage son's issues.

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Speaker 4: They have trouble.

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Speaker 2: Finishing ejaculation, Jeus spunk.

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Speaker 4: Man, milk, Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 1: Then you have Ross Fokker in Meet the Fockers played

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Speaker 1: by Barbara streisand who is very hands on with her clients.

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Speaker 4: I think that I can help you and Jack reconnect. Well,

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Speaker 4: it all starts with a little bit of how shall

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Speaker 4: I say, intimate contact? Yeah, entangles every pleasure in the

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Speaker 4: body can be stimulated through the years.

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Speaker 1: And then we have Marion Kathy and Kell's marriage celebrate

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Speaker 1: slash sex therapist in Kath and Kim, who makes the

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Speaker 1: couple do the rawshack ink block test to fix cat's

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Speaker 1: broken libido. Kel has told me all about your little problem,

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Speaker 1: and the good news is that it is easily fixed. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to show you some cards now and I

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Speaker 1: want you to tell me what you see.

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Speaker 2: A couple making love?

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Speaker 4: Two dead sticks. Good, Let's try another approach.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So what does a real sex therapist do? Lisa

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Speaker 1: Towney is a counselor and sex and relationship therapist. Lisa,

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Speaker 1: what's the most common question people come to you with

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Speaker 1: when they're seeking out your services as a sex therapist?

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Speaker 2: A lot of it will be around is this normal?

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Speaker 2: Are we okay? Are we having an our sex? And

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Speaker 2: are we comparing that to other people? And a big

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Speaker 2: thing that we talk about is not to get too

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Speaker 2: caught up in that comparison with other people, but it's

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Speaker 2: around what feels okay for you.

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Speaker 1: Well, that then leads me to my next question, because

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Speaker 1: we hear it, Muma Mia. We love looking at the

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Speaker 1: sex lives of our fellow Australian women and understanding where

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Speaker 1: we kind of stand in amongst all of that. But

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Speaker 1: is that healthy for us to read these stories about

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Speaker 1: other women's experiences like give us insight into what other

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Speaker 1: people are doing? And whether we do fit into that range.

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Speaker 2: I think we have a natural curiosity, don't We need

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Speaker 2: to want to know about other people's sex lives and

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Speaker 2: compare ourselves to it. But the problem with that is

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Speaker 2: if we can get caught up in that, and what

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Speaker 2: I would be talking to people about is not so

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Speaker 2: much quantity but quality. So if I was talking to

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Speaker 2: someone talking to my friends and saying, oh, how much

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Speaker 2: sex a you having? It's not how much, it's what

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Speaker 2: kind of sex are you having? And bisex, I mean

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Speaker 2: sexual intimacy. So I'm not just talking about some kind

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Speaker 2: of you know, penetrative sexual act. I'm talking about all

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Speaker 2: kinds of sort of sexual intimacy that we might have.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's important that is the sex that

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Speaker 2: you're having the kind of sex that you want to

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Speaker 2: be having? Is it happy? Is it satisfying? Is it fulfilling?

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Speaker 1: So just to break that down instead of looking at

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Speaker 1: the numbers, because maybe someone is having sex every single day,

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Speaker 1: but they're just like banging one out out of obligation

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Speaker 1: rather than having sex maybe once every couple of months,

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Speaker 1: and it be mind blowing.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, it's the is it sex that you

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Speaker 2: want to be having It doesn't rock your world, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't blow your mind, and it doesn't always have to either.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes we might like to have a quickie to use

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Speaker 2: the name of your show, but now quickie can be great.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: You might just go, shall we just bang one out

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Speaker 2: this morning before we go to work? And that might

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Speaker 2: be fine, But that's all that negotiation too, right, So

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Speaker 2: not every sexual experience we have has to be ten

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Speaker 2: out of ten and fireworks and whatever. But it's off

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Speaker 2: at a balance. Sometimes it will be like that, and

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Speaker 2: other times it will be you know what, that just

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Speaker 2: felt kind of nice and that's great. There's something called

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Speaker 2: the good enough sex model that I talk to people

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Speaker 2: about and it can be really helpful to think about, well,

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Speaker 2: did that feel good enough? It's like, yeah, that was great,

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Speaker 2: thanks very much. On with my day.

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Speaker 1: Can we talk about sex therapy more generally, because the

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Speaker 1: examples that we have in pop culture are not overly helpful.

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Speaker 2: Really not.

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Speaker 1: We have ros Fokker, who's very touchy, feeling and meet

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Speaker 1: the Fockers and she gets very hands on with her customers.

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Speaker 1: We have Marian from Katherine Kim who we've just heard from,

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Speaker 1: and she's the opposite of helpful.

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Speaker 2: I think, yes, most unhelpful.

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Speaker 1: Funny as she is. But what should we expect when

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Speaker 1: we seek out the services of a sex therapist, Because

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Speaker 1: I guess there's this idea maybe that they might touch

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Speaker 1: you or they might watch you have sex, if we

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Speaker 1: look at sort of examples from pop culture. But what

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Speaker 1: exactly do we expect from a sex therapist?

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Speaker 2: Yes, well, I guess first and foremost, we do not

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Speaker 2: touch people. We're not allowed to. That's illegal. And there

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Speaker 2: is maybe some of that confusion because I think Goodneth

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Speaker 2: Paltrow had a show and on that there was sex

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Speaker 2: therapists who actually were hands on.

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Speaker 4: The scale of wonder five, How pleasurable was that?

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Speaker 3: I four four?

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Speaker 1: And he was low on kinking.

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Speaker 3: You're very low on kinky, slow, slow, failure on body.

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Speaker 2: And I know our professional association was coming out saying

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Speaker 2: that's not us. We don't do that. So I think,

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Speaker 2: first and foremost we try to set up a really supportive,

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Speaker 2: non judgmental, inclusive safe space for people, because talking about

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Speaker 2: sexual stuff can be embarrassing. And I always applaud people

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Speaker 2: who come to see me to say thank you for

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Speaker 2: getting past that hurdle, and a lot of people say,

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Speaker 2: I've wanted to do this for you, but it's taken

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Speaker 2: me so long to feel comfortable and confident to talk

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Speaker 2: about really personal things. And we will ask you some

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Speaker 2: very very intimate things that you have maybe only ever

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Speaker 2: shared with you, maybe a partner or a bestie. So

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Speaker 2: I think creating that really safe space is so crucial.

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Speaker 2: And I always say to people so you avoid the

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Speaker 2: dodgy people that you see portrayed in the media, is

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Speaker 2: always look what someone's qualifications are, because sex therapy is

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Speaker 2: not a protected title like psychologist is, so anyone can

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Speaker 2: call themselves a sex therapist. And I was the national

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Speaker 2: chairperson of the Society of Australian Sex Solidists and one

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Speaker 2: of my absolute passions was really getting information out there

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Speaker 2: to say to people, look up the qualifications and then

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Speaker 2: hopefully you'll avoid running into some of those poor stereotypes

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Speaker 2: that you might see in the media.

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Speaker 1: Lisa, who would you say your common clients are? Is

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Speaker 1: it couples, is it singles? Is it women? Is it men?

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Speaker 1: Who are people who are generally seeking your services?

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't see couples anymore, but I used to.

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Speaker 2: But couples in particular do seek out sex therapy. But

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Speaker 2: I would say the bulk of my caseload now people

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Speaker 2: are assigned female at birth women, and I'd say probably

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Speaker 2: eighty five to ninety five percent of my clients fall

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Speaker 2: into that category at the moment.

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Speaker 1: And what would they say is the thing that motivated

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Speaker 1: them to seek your services? Like what was that sort

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Speaker 1: of final straw where they thought, no, I really need

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Speaker 1: help with this? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I think sometimes it can be around issues within relationships,

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Speaker 2: but it can also be just issues for yourself. You know.

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Speaker 2: I see a lot of solo people who are saying,

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Speaker 2: I've got orgasmic difficulties and I always have, and I'm

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Speaker 2: worried that I'm broken, and is there some way that

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Speaker 2: I can work on this? And yes we can. Or

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Speaker 2: people who might experience sexual pain or difficulty during intercourse,

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Speaker 2: and quite a lot of that might have psychological components

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Speaker 2: to it. So being able to work in tandem with

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Speaker 2: say pelvic floor physios can be fantastic and have really

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Speaker 2: great outcomes for people. Being an older person myself, I'm

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Speaker 2: working with people who experience in difficulty in perimenopause and

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Speaker 2: menopause that can really knock our libidos around and bodily

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Speaker 2: changes and so I'm seeing some older women who are

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Speaker 2: coming to see me just to explore what might be

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Speaker 2: getting in the way of their sexual enjoyment in their

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Speaker 2: blating years.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever been shocked by something somebody has told

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Speaker 1: you in that room, And obviously you can't give us details,

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Speaker 1: but you would have to have a very open mind

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Speaker 1: because people's sexual lives can be incredibly varied. So has

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Speaker 1: there ever been anything that's kind of taken you by surprise?

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Speaker 2: Not really. There's a great expression called don't yuck my yum,

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Speaker 2: and I love that expression, and I am really excited

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Speaker 2: and happy to hear what people's yums are. And I'm

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Speaker 2: not here to yuck them or judge them, or something's

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Speaker 2: will sadden me as opposed to shock me. But I

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Speaker 2: just think we are such fascinating humans with this huge

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Speaker 2: array of sexual interest. Sometimes someone will be filled with

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Speaker 2: so much shame and anxiety, and I can see it's

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Speaker 2: really painful for them to say this thing out loud.

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Speaker 2: And when they've said it to me, I've thought, oh,

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Speaker 2: that's not much that i'd be worried about, you know,

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Speaker 2: But for them, it's like the biggest unburning they've ever had.

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Speaker 1: Just finally, Li, So, what would you say is the

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Speaker 1: most common piece of advice give to clients that have

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Speaker 1: come to you for advice over the years. What do

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Speaker 1: you tell the majority of them you think you're not broken?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're not broken, and what your experiencing is completely valid.

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Speaker 2: It is so common that people feel that they are

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Speaker 2: somehow not good enough, not functioning, okay, defective in some way,

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Speaker 2: and it's a really lovely part of my job to

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Speaker 2: be able to explain why that's not the case and

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Speaker 2: to just normalize their feelings. But I say that phrase

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Speaker 2: probably more than any clear.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning in today, friends, taking some time to

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Speaker 1: feed your mind. If you want to read m Vernum's

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Speaker 1: story about how much sex those in long term relationships

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Speaker 1: are having, you can find a link to it in

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Speaker 1: our show notes. And don't forget. If there's a news

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Speaker 1: story you want us to check out for you in

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Speaker 1: a little more detail, or to give you the background

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Speaker 1: info on it so you just better understand where it's

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