WEBVTT - How ‘Cocaine Cassie’ Really Survived Three Years In A Colombian Prison 0:00:11.542 --> 0:00:14.262 You're listening to Amma Mea podcast. 0:00:14.982 --> 0:00:18.462 Mama Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waterers. 0:00:18.662 --> 0:00:22.262 This podcast was recorded on Hey, I'm Jemma Bath, host 0:00:22.302 --> 0:00:24.782 of true Crime Conversations and did you know that the 0:00:24.782 --> 0:00:27.382 team at Mamma Mia is bringing you over one hundred 0:00:27.462 --> 0:00:30.542 hours of the best content from your award winning podcasts 0:00:30.822 --> 0:00:33.822 for the Hot Pod Summer of your Dreams. Well, we 0:00:33.902 --> 0:00:37.462 are here at two Crime Conversations. We've handpicked some of 0:00:37.462 --> 0:00:40.502 the most chilling and thought provoking episodes from our feed, 0:00:41.022 --> 0:00:44.942 including gripping cult stories, powerful interviews with crime victims, and 0:00:45.022 --> 0:00:48.382 in depth accounts from women who have been incarcerated sharing 0:00:48.422 --> 0:00:50.262 the journeys that led them to that place. 0:00:50.582 --> 0:00:51.742 And that's just the beginning. 0:00:52.262 --> 0:00:54.702 Today, I'm bringing you the story of Cassie Sainsbury from 0:00:54.742 --> 0:00:57.822 No Filter, another amazing podcast on the Muma Mea network 0:00:57.862 --> 0:01:01.782 hosted by Mia Friedman. In this episode, Mia chats with Cassie, 0:01:01.822 --> 0:01:05.622 who for years was branded by the media as Cocaine Cassie. 0:01:06.142 --> 0:01:10.022 Here she talks about prison life, the abuse, the relationships, 0:01:10.222 --> 0:01:14.662 thee and what happened afterwards. Here's the original episode. 0:01:14.782 --> 0:01:15.662 Take a listen. 0:01:24.902 --> 0:01:27.302 From Mum and Me I'm mea Friedman and you're listening 0:01:27.302 --> 0:01:30.142 to No Filter. My favorite interviews to do on this 0:01:30.262 --> 0:01:33.262 show when I go in thinking that I know someone, 0:01:33.302 --> 0:01:35.542 I've got a sense of them by what I've seen 0:01:35.702 --> 0:01:38.822 or what I've read, and then after the interview, I 0:01:38.902 --> 0:01:42.382 come away with a totally different idea. That's the kind 0:01:42.422 --> 0:01:46.022 of interview you can hear today. The name Cassie Sainsbury 0:01:46.062 --> 0:01:48.502 probably doesn't mean anything to you, but if I said 0:01:48.542 --> 0:01:52.902 cocaine Cassie instantly, I bet you'd have an image and 0:01:52.982 --> 0:01:55.622 an idea in your head. Here are the facts in 0:01:55.662 --> 0:01:58.662 case you've forgotten them, because I kind of had. Cassie 0:01:58.662 --> 0:02:02.182 Sainsbury was caught with almost six kilograms of cocaine in 0:02:02.222 --> 0:02:06.022 a Colombian airport in twenty seventeen. It was concealed inside 0:02:06.102 --> 0:02:10.182 eighteen headphone boxes and the media went nuts. They were 0:02:10.262 --> 0:02:13.702 so so excited about this story. You knew you were 0:02:13.782 --> 0:02:18.982 being asked to deliver cocaine. Finally you've admitted I knew. 0:02:18.782 --> 0:02:19.302 It was in it. 0:02:19.462 --> 0:02:23.862 I feared for my life some massive organized crime enterprise. 0:02:24.182 --> 0:02:26.862 It's huge because the last time a pretty young white 0:02:26.942 --> 0:02:30.822 Australian woman was caught smuggling drugs, her name was Chappelle Corby. 0:02:31.222 --> 0:02:33.262 It was back in two thousand and four, and she 0:02:33.462 --> 0:02:37.622 spent ten years in a Ballei jail and was responsible 0:02:37.662 --> 0:02:41.182 for countless interviews and stories and a huge amount of 0:02:41.222 --> 0:02:45.462 media coverage and public interest. She'd been released ten years later. 0:02:45.742 --> 0:02:49.142 Just three years before, Cassie was caught with drugs, so 0:02:49.182 --> 0:02:52.542 the narrative was written instantly. Silly young girl serves a right. 0:02:52.822 --> 0:02:55.302 Whyant earth did she think she could get away with it? 0:02:55.902 --> 0:02:59.222 Cassie pleaded guilty. She was sentenced to six years in 0:02:59.262 --> 0:03:03.662 a notoriously rough women's prison in Colombia, and the conditions 0:03:03.662 --> 0:03:07.262 were pretty shocking. This interview is about what happened to 0:03:07.302 --> 0:03:10.902 Cassie in jail and what happened afterwards. She went into 0:03:10.902 --> 0:03:14.262 prison engaged to a man. That relationship ended and she 0:03:14.302 --> 0:03:18.462 got engaged to a woman. She was stabbed, beaten and threatened. 0:03:18.982 --> 0:03:21.982 She spoke not a word of Spanish. She made enemies 0:03:22.262 --> 0:03:24.742 and friends, and she fell in and out of love. 0:03:25.382 --> 0:03:30.502 She was terrified and defiant and determined and incredibly smart. 0:03:31.182 --> 0:03:35.022 Her resilience was next level, and three years later she 0:03:35.142 --> 0:03:39.382 was released into a completely different life which she has embraced. 0:03:39.822 --> 0:03:43.782 Put your expectations and your preconceptions aside and enjoy this 0:03:43.902 --> 0:03:51.822 conversation with Cassie Sainsbury. Cassie, do you remember, I'm sure 0:03:51.862 --> 0:03:53.662 you do, your first night in prison. 0:03:54.822 --> 0:03:59.102 I do remember that that was horrendous night. I think 0:03:59.142 --> 0:04:02.342 it was actually quite daunting going into prison to start 0:04:02.382 --> 0:04:06.422 off with, and obviously already knowing that I was looking 0:04:06.502 --> 0:04:09.902 at a thirty year sentence and I looked in there, 0:04:10.022 --> 0:04:13.302 and I'm looking at the people and I'm thinking, why 0:04:13.302 --> 0:04:17.022 do they look so comfortable? Like you would see women 0:04:17.102 --> 0:04:19.422 who look like they were having the time of their life. 0:04:20.262 --> 0:04:22.982 And then I'd see like women walking around with babies, 0:04:24.182 --> 0:04:27.942 and I was like, what is going on here? And 0:04:27.942 --> 0:04:31.542 obviously later I found out that there are women who 0:04:31.542 --> 0:04:34.862 were pregnant in prison actually give birth there and the 0:04:34.862 --> 0:04:37.022 baby will stay with them until they're probably three or 0:04:37.022 --> 0:04:40.582 four years old. Oh wow, which is be hard on 0:04:40.662 --> 0:04:45.342 a child to grow up in those circumstances, considering they're 0:04:45.342 --> 0:04:49.142 basically paying a sentence with their mum without even realizing it. 0:04:49.902 --> 0:04:52.582 When you were arrested at the airport, how long were 0:04:52.582 --> 0:04:53.702 you at the airport? Four? 0:04:54.462 --> 0:04:58.702 I was arrested and immediately I was taken from the 0:04:58.782 --> 0:05:04.062 airport and in budal To an anti narcotics center which 0:05:04.142 --> 0:05:09.262 is basically off of the airport, which I stayed there 0:05:09.622 --> 0:05:13.782 for forty eight hours, which in that time I was 0:05:13.782 --> 0:05:17.662 given my accusation hearing, and then from there I was 0:05:17.822 --> 0:05:20.382 taken to a men's retention center. 0:05:20.702 --> 0:05:21.462 Oh my goodness. 0:05:22.062 --> 0:05:25.022 If I thought, you know, it wasn't scary enough. 0:05:25.222 --> 0:05:25.982 That was. 0:05:27.942 --> 0:05:32.062 No words, no words. It was just quite daunting being 0:05:32.102 --> 0:05:33.662 there and being the only woman. 0:05:34.502 --> 0:05:36.942 Were you safe there? Like how many men were around? 0:05:37.302 --> 0:05:40.822 There were at least one hundred men. There were moments 0:05:40.902 --> 0:05:43.782 that it was quite questionable whether I was actually safe 0:05:43.822 --> 0:05:46.462 to be there or not, considering I didn't speak the 0:05:46.502 --> 0:05:49.622 language yet. In this area because it's basically underground, this 0:05:49.822 --> 0:05:54.342 retention center, police don't care. They actually help the other 0:05:54.542 --> 0:05:58.942 people that are there get drugs, smokes marijuana, and so 0:05:59.062 --> 0:06:02.902 they are smoking. And I have quite severi asthma and 0:06:02.942 --> 0:06:05.942 I just had an asthma attack, and the police were 0:06:05.942 --> 0:06:08.222 basically saying that they wouldn't help me unless I paid 0:06:08.302 --> 0:06:08.702 for help. 0:06:10.182 --> 0:06:14.422 In the movies, in on TV, when someone's arrested, they're 0:06:14.462 --> 0:06:18.342 allowed one phone call. When you're arrested and you're at 0:06:18.382 --> 0:06:21.262 the airport, I assume they took your phone away? Were 0:06:21.302 --> 0:06:22.822 you allowed to contact anyone? 0:06:23.662 --> 0:06:26.822 I was quite lucky that one of the police officers 0:06:26.822 --> 0:06:29.182 who were looking after me, I think he kind of 0:06:29.182 --> 0:06:31.502 had a bit of a soft spot for me, and 0:06:31.582 --> 0:06:35.062 he actually let me use his phone and his face 0:06:35.102 --> 0:06:38.742 walked to get in contact with my mum, And obviously 0:06:38.782 --> 0:06:41.942 at that time, my nanna actually replied saying, you know 0:06:42.422 --> 0:06:44.622 what a sick joke you're playing? When I was why 0:06:44.662 --> 0:06:48.462 would you say that you're dapping Columbia and they're thinking, 0:06:49.422 --> 0:06:52.182 are you kidding me? Why would it occur to someone 0:06:52.222 --> 0:06:54.782 to even make up a joke about something like that. 0:06:55.422 --> 0:06:58.582 But basically, when I did ask to have a phone call, 0:06:58.662 --> 0:07:02.222 I was told no. When I was arrested, I was 0:07:02.262 --> 0:07:05.062 told that I'd have a lawyer and the translator come 0:07:05.142 --> 0:07:07.262 and help me through. I guess the first lot of 0:07:07.302 --> 0:07:11.462 paperwork never showed up either. I was told that I 0:07:11.502 --> 0:07:13.782 had to sign a bunch of paperwork that I had 0:07:13.822 --> 0:07:17.102 no idea what it said. And then basically, yeah, then 0:07:17.142 --> 0:07:21.062 I was just shipped off wherever I was saying, where. 0:07:20.822 --> 0:07:22.262 Did your family think that you were? 0:07:22.742 --> 0:07:25.862 My sister knew I was in Columbia, but at that 0:07:26.022 --> 0:07:28.702 time I did not have a relationship with my mom 0:07:29.262 --> 0:07:33.382 or my dad. Really, I was quiet out on my own. 0:07:34.502 --> 0:07:36.422 I've always had my differences with my mom. 0:07:37.102 --> 0:07:39.022 Did your sister or any of your friends know what 0:07:39.022 --> 0:07:40.142 you were doing in Colombia? 0:07:41.142 --> 0:07:43.542 No, no, no, No one knew. 0:07:44.382 --> 0:07:45.982 So there was a lot of gaps to fill in. 0:07:46.062 --> 0:07:48.302 I imagine once you started to talk to people. 0:07:48.982 --> 0:07:53.582 Yeah. Yeah, So I remember when I spoke to my 0:07:53.822 --> 0:07:56.622 sister and my mom, and you know, they were like, 0:07:56.662 --> 0:07:59.942 what happened? And I just said, you know, there was 0:07:59.982 --> 0:08:04.102 a hop of drugs found in headphones. And this is 0:08:04.142 --> 0:08:08.262 where I medituated that I had bought headphones as wedding 0:08:08.342 --> 0:08:12.182 gifts and that you know, the drug was inside of them. 0:08:12.662 --> 0:08:14.502 But the thing is, I never said I'd bought them 0:08:14.502 --> 0:08:18.902 as wedding gifts. I don't know if maybe they were 0:08:19.022 --> 0:08:23.542 trying to put some pieces together. And when my mum 0:08:23.542 --> 0:08:26.182 and sister actually came to see me in jail of 0:08:26.302 --> 0:08:29.862 the first time, they basically said, look, we know there's 0:08:29.942 --> 0:08:34.622 lots of things you're not telling us. When you're ready, 0:08:34.942 --> 0:08:37.742 you can tell us when not going to force you. 0:08:38.342 --> 0:08:41.182 It's obviously something that has a lot more detail to 0:08:41.342 --> 0:08:45.582 it than anybody's capable of understanding in these moments. It 0:08:45.742 --> 0:08:48.302 was nice to feel that they were giving me that 0:08:48.382 --> 0:08:51.782 trust to obviously open up when I was ready and 0:08:51.942 --> 0:08:56.422 I had processed everything. But in the meantime, everyone else 0:08:56.502 --> 0:08:59.822 was kind of starting to form their own versions of 0:08:59.822 --> 0:09:04.062 what happened, and I had no way of, I guess, 0:09:05.062 --> 0:09:07.862 coming out and saying, well, no, guys, that's wrong, because 0:09:08.102 --> 0:09:10.382 the only times I had a chance to even speak 0:09:10.542 --> 0:09:14.742 out it was never on my turns. It was always edited, 0:09:14.862 --> 0:09:18.142 it was always I guess, tried to make it sound 0:09:18.302 --> 0:09:19.462 more interesting. 0:09:19.942 --> 0:09:22.822 When did you become aware of the nickname Cocaine Cassie. 0:09:23.702 --> 0:09:25.462 I don't know when I became aware of it. I 0:09:25.462 --> 0:09:27.142 think it might have been when my mom told me 0:09:27.182 --> 0:09:30.182 that's what they were saying, because at the start it 0:09:30.342 --> 0:09:33.702 wasn't Cocaine Cassie. I think people are still quite unsure 0:09:33.782 --> 0:09:38.262 of I guess how things had gone down, and maybe 0:09:38.462 --> 0:09:42.742 reserving that judgment until they were like, yeah, no, she's guilty. 0:09:43.462 --> 0:09:46.262 But when she did tell me, I obviously I didn't 0:09:46.342 --> 0:09:49.542 like the name, but it just went hands in hand 0:09:49.622 --> 0:09:53.222 with what that happened. Like even until today, I don't 0:09:53.342 --> 0:09:56.942 like the name, and obviously it's such a defining name 0:09:57.942 --> 0:10:00.062 if you hear you go on, yeah, she had something 0:10:00.102 --> 0:10:02.822 to do with drugs. At the end of the day, 0:10:03.382 --> 0:10:05.982 I've kind of just accepted the name without letting it 0:10:06.022 --> 0:10:11.542 affect me anymore. Working through the ropes process, I guess 0:10:11.542 --> 0:10:16.582 to try and change that perception that I have. It's 0:10:16.622 --> 0:10:19.942 not easy, but I mean, even if it's one person 0:10:20.182 --> 0:10:23.142 out of a hundred that I managed to show the 0:10:23.182 --> 0:10:25.902 real me, it's just worth it because I'm not a 0:10:25.942 --> 0:10:29.342 bad person. Then you know, I did make a really 0:10:29.422 --> 0:10:33.862 bad mistake, but I'm trying to I get show people 0:10:33.902 --> 0:10:36.142 that one month's take doesn't define you. 0:10:36.862 --> 0:10:40.542 It's funny. I've watched interviews with you before in like 0:10:40.862 --> 0:10:44.422 over the years, and when you've been asked about that, 0:10:45.022 --> 0:10:50.502 about the cocaine Cassie thing, You've had different reactions at 0:10:50.502 --> 0:10:53.742 different times, Like you've been irritated, you've been angry, you've 0:10:53.742 --> 0:10:58.062 been mortified, and now there's like a lightness about you. 0:10:58.182 --> 0:11:02.262 It's like you've kind of accepted it and you're laughing 0:11:02.342 --> 0:11:04.582 at it because it doesn't sting like it used to. 0:11:04.702 --> 0:11:05.262 Is that why? 0:11:06.462 --> 0:11:10.142 Yeah? I think so. When I think probably the Firbs 0:11:10.262 --> 0:11:12.622 year year and a half, well probably yeah, a year 0:11:12.662 --> 0:11:16.062 and a half of my journey through all this, I 0:11:16.382 --> 0:11:22.222 was so angry, so angry with who, with myself, with 0:11:22.422 --> 0:11:26.182 the other people that were involved, I guess as well 0:11:26.182 --> 0:11:29.502 with the justice system. Like I was just angry at 0:11:30.142 --> 0:11:33.422 everyone and anyone. And I had lots of differences with 0:11:33.462 --> 0:11:38.982 my mum, with my boyfriend, with my lawyer, and I 0:11:39.022 --> 0:11:43.062 was just constantly angry. In any of the first interviews 0:11:43.142 --> 0:11:46.102 or when I was on camera and I just looked 0:11:47.182 --> 0:11:51.022 in the face, it was because I was so angry. Yeah, 0:11:51.102 --> 0:11:55.022 And I remember walking into my first hearing and when 0:11:55.062 --> 0:12:00.262 I saw that it was full of media, I was like, why, why, 0:12:00.822 --> 0:12:03.262 why would you even try and get the medium bowl? 0:12:03.742 --> 0:12:06.902 Like why? That was the only thing that was going 0:12:06.942 --> 0:12:08.862 through my head. And a lot of the deals that 0:12:08.902 --> 0:12:11.782 were taking place, I was kind of just thrown in 0:12:11.822 --> 0:12:14.742 the deep beats, like there was no benefit out of it. 0:12:14.782 --> 0:12:17.542 For me. It was purely, well, you've got to do 0:12:17.622 --> 0:12:22.262 this interview and doesn't matter the circumstances, just do it. 0:12:22.342 --> 0:12:23.902 But who was doing those deals? 0:12:24.302 --> 0:12:27.462 My mum was pretty much behind a lot of those feels. 0:12:28.022 --> 0:12:30.862 Okay, Ah, So that's when people come out of the 0:12:30.902 --> 0:12:35.102 woodwork and suddenly start seeing the opportunity. Did you know 0:12:35.502 --> 0:12:38.262 I mean, obviously you're old enough to have lived through 0:12:38.302 --> 0:12:39.662 the Chappelle Corby story. 0:12:40.862 --> 0:12:44.902 I can't actually remember when it all happened, but obviously 0:12:44.942 --> 0:12:48.502 I had heard little bits and pieces about it. Because 0:12:48.502 --> 0:12:52.182 I've never been much into watching news or anything. I 0:12:52.182 --> 0:12:56.662 don't know why. It's just never been something that I've enjoyed. Obviously, 0:12:56.902 --> 0:12:59.182 after being arrested, that's all I would hear is a 0:12:59.262 --> 0:13:03.342 comparison between her and myself, and I think obviously in 0:13:03.382 --> 0:13:06.422 that moment, you feel what that other person would have 0:13:06.462 --> 0:13:10.462 felt in those moments too, because whether you know you 0:13:10.502 --> 0:13:12.262 did it or you didn't do it, you've got the 0:13:12.302 --> 0:13:17.342 whole world that's coming down on you. You're physically finishing 0:13:17.622 --> 0:13:21.582 a sentence that you have no human rights, you have nothing, 0:13:22.302 --> 0:13:24.462 and then when you get out, you've got a whole 0:13:24.862 --> 0:13:29.942 another journey waiting for you. Wear The society is very unforgiving. 0:13:30.502 --> 0:13:34.062 It's very difficult, I think, as someone who has done 0:13:34.222 --> 0:13:39.822 time to find their feet, because we become so accustomed 0:13:39.822 --> 0:13:43.822 to a routine and to I guess a treatment that 0:13:43.862 --> 0:13:46.502 we received that you kind of don't want to be 0:13:46.582 --> 0:13:51.542 around anyone, and you don't want anyone coming close, so 0:13:51.622 --> 0:13:54.502 you don't want to talk to anyone because you can't 0:13:54.542 --> 0:13:57.062 talk to anyone in dale because you don't know what 0:13:57.142 --> 0:13:57.942 be used against you. 0:13:59.302 --> 0:14:03.622 So back to your when you arrived there, what are 0:14:03.662 --> 0:14:06.422 the conditions like in the jail you were sent to? 0:14:07.182 --> 0:14:09.342 And is that where you spent your whole sentence. 0:14:10.502 --> 0:14:14.142 I was moved around quite a bit. I think I 0:14:14.182 --> 0:14:17.942 had a personal living tour of the dale. What anyone. 0:14:18.582 --> 0:14:22.902 I was taken to Yard one when I arrived, which 0:14:22.982 --> 0:14:27.182 is basically bat then was where all the newcomers would go, 0:14:27.422 --> 0:14:31.422 and then they would be sorted into different yards, determined 0:14:31.582 --> 0:14:35.902 through the crime that they committed. So you could say 0:14:35.982 --> 0:14:40.022 it's organized. It used to be organized better said basically, 0:14:40.142 --> 0:14:44.302 they would try and keep foreigners and not so much 0:14:44.422 --> 0:14:48.342 life threatening people together and then obviously you've got your 0:14:48.462 --> 0:14:54.982 people that were quite dangerous and then consumers minor offenses. 0:14:55.382 --> 0:14:58.502 They did try and split it up, I guess, but 0:14:58.582 --> 0:15:03.142 they also judged on the appearance of yourself, so you 0:15:03.182 --> 0:15:09.942 were quite I guess rude, aggressive didn't go well with 0:15:09.982 --> 0:15:13.222 the sorry you were already going to a bad yard, 0:15:13.742 --> 0:15:18.142 and I guess at the time that organization was good. 0:15:18.422 --> 0:15:22.662 It wasn't always like that. So from Yard one I 0:15:22.862 --> 0:15:28.622 was sent to yard five, which is supposedly the safest 0:15:29.222 --> 0:15:34.462 yard in the jail, which was actually where I had 0:15:34.582 --> 0:15:38.382 most of my runnings with people, which is also where 0:15:38.422 --> 0:15:39.622 the photos were leaked. 0:15:39.622 --> 0:15:42.382 From what photos were leaked, it would. 0:15:42.222 --> 0:15:45.782 Have been in May twenty seventeen. A photo was leaked 0:15:45.782 --> 0:15:48.502 where I was next to two girls and I was smiling. 0:15:49.382 --> 0:15:53.022 I think it was showing how gullible I really really was. 0:15:53.662 --> 0:15:57.382 Because one of the girls, her name was Julie. She 0:15:57.502 --> 0:15:59.622 came to look for me and she's like, no, we 0:15:59.702 --> 0:16:02.142 know that you don't have much clothing at the moment, 0:16:02.342 --> 0:16:04.662 so we want to give you some so we have 0:16:04.742 --> 0:16:06.782 something to change in. And at that time was like, 0:16:06.862 --> 0:16:11.462 do I really smell that bad? Or She lived on 0:16:11.502 --> 0:16:14.422 the fourth floor, and when I went in, there was 0:16:14.462 --> 0:16:16.582 another girl there and they pulled out this bag of 0:16:16.662 --> 0:16:19.462 clothes and they're like, you should try that on, see 0:16:19.462 --> 0:16:22.902 what you like. Take it. And when I turned around, 0:16:23.182 --> 0:16:26.582 they had a phone, and in my head I was like, oh, 0:16:26.902 --> 0:16:29.182 we have phones in jail now, like I hadn't seen 0:16:29.262 --> 0:16:33.422 one yet, and they're just like, oh, it's her birthday. 0:16:33.502 --> 0:16:36.702 Can we get a photo with you? I thought, what's weet? 0:16:36.742 --> 0:16:39.822 But all right, sat down, took a photo with them. 0:16:40.422 --> 0:16:44.062 Next minute, it's all prey with the media that I 0:16:44.182 --> 0:16:48.022 was having the time of my life in jail. It 0:16:48.102 --> 0:16:50.782 was on the weekend, so on the weekends there's visitors 0:16:50.822 --> 0:16:53.942 that come in and out. And while the visitors were 0:16:53.982 --> 0:16:57.622 lining up outside, the media had actually convinced some of 0:16:57.662 --> 0:17:02.862 the families to get photos and they would pay for photos. 0:17:03.702 --> 0:17:06.902 Actually this was obviously quiet when it was all very 0:17:06.982 --> 0:17:10.622 fresh still, and they were actually paying guards to try 0:17:10.662 --> 0:17:13.902 and get footage of me inside. And one of the 0:17:13.942 --> 0:17:18.222 guards got caught and was fired on the fox. So 0:17:19.022 --> 0:17:20.302 Australian media, I did a good job. 0:17:21.542 --> 0:17:23.902 Were there are other phonners there? When you were put 0:17:23.942 --> 0:17:24.822 into yard one? 0:17:25.382 --> 0:17:31.862 There were actually a lot from Mexico, Italy, Germany, but 0:17:31.982 --> 0:17:34.902 there weren't many English speaking people. 0:17:34.742 --> 0:17:37.942 Who did you gravitate towards because is the instinct. I've 0:17:37.942 --> 0:17:41.142 got to find some people, I've got to make some alliances. 0:17:41.862 --> 0:17:45.302 I was always quite lucky that I was always drawn 0:17:45.502 --> 0:17:49.462 to like a mother figure. So when I got to 0:17:49.582 --> 0:17:52.502 Yard five, the lady that I happened to be living 0:17:52.502 --> 0:17:54.742 with in the cell, she took me on straight away 0:17:54.782 --> 0:17:57.062 and she was like, you know, she gave me home 0:17:57.142 --> 0:18:01.382 of I guess personal products yodaans so because you don't 0:18:01.382 --> 0:18:04.822 get given any of this stuff. And when I was 0:18:04.902 --> 0:18:09.062 moved to a different yarn, also another lady kind of 0:18:09.102 --> 0:18:12.862 took me on as a mother figure and she was 0:18:12.902 --> 0:18:15.942 trying to, I guess, show me the ways of not 0:18:15.982 --> 0:18:20.662 trusting people, because didn't matter what yard I was in, 0:18:20.742 --> 0:18:25.382 something would always happen. So in yard seven, where it 0:18:25.502 --> 0:18:29.542 was maximum security, which I was moved to after I 0:18:29.702 --> 0:18:35.102 had obviously been threatened the photos were released, someone stole 0:18:35.182 --> 0:18:40.502 money from me. In the cell. We were actually in isolation, 0:18:40.862 --> 0:18:45.582 so each person was basically insolitary in this yard. And 0:18:45.622 --> 0:18:48.262 they would say you can pay to either get a 0:18:48.422 --> 0:18:50.742 radio in if you want, you can get a TV 0:18:50.982 --> 0:18:55.662 in purely so you don't go insane. I thought, oh, 0:18:55.862 --> 0:18:57.582 I don't know how to do that because I haven't 0:18:57.582 --> 0:19:01.262 got anyone in Columbia to actually go and buy these things. 0:19:02.022 --> 0:19:04.822 And there happened to be one lady who spoke English. 0:19:05.742 --> 0:19:08.782 She used to live in Spain. She was from Venezuela, 0:19:09.302 --> 0:19:11.222 and she's like, oh, I've got someone who can help 0:19:11.262 --> 0:19:14.342 you outside. You just need to transfer this to this account. 0:19:14.942 --> 0:19:19.502 And who fell in the trap this person did, so 0:19:19.822 --> 0:19:23.142 I think it wasn't a lot, but it was obviously 0:19:23.382 --> 0:19:26.862 just that insteat of I can't trust anyone. 0:19:27.062 --> 0:19:29.022 I was going to ask, what you learned about trust? 0:19:29.942 --> 0:19:35.342 Oh, it's actually really funny because I should probably be 0:19:35.382 --> 0:19:38.742 the person who did not trust them absolutely anyone af 0:19:38.822 --> 0:19:41.822 sure that's happened to me. But if anything, it's actually 0:19:41.862 --> 0:19:46.782 taught me to analyze the person really well, because I 0:19:46.902 --> 0:19:48.862 might be talking to my wife and I'll be like, oh, yeah, 0:19:48.902 --> 0:19:51.582 this person, Nah, I don't think so this person is 0:19:51.622 --> 0:19:55.342 going to do this, and without fail, I'm always right. 0:19:56.462 --> 0:19:59.822 So it taught me not so much not to trust people, 0:20:00.142 --> 0:20:05.262 but just to analyze them really well. I mean, in prison, 0:20:06.062 --> 0:20:10.662 people just look out for themselves. And it took me 0:20:10.782 --> 0:20:14.742 a long time to get that through my head because 0:20:14.782 --> 0:20:18.862 I having been surrounded by people I guess that were 0:20:18.902 --> 0:20:19.422 well off. 0:20:20.102 --> 0:20:21.742 So when you say people who were well off, do 0:20:21.742 --> 0:20:24.182 you mean there were other prisoners who were well off. 0:20:24.622 --> 0:20:28.102 Yes, if you have money and you're in that dal 0:20:28.142 --> 0:20:32.542 or you can have whatever you want, like what. So 0:20:32.622 --> 0:20:35.822 I remember there's one girl. I did not get along 0:20:35.862 --> 0:20:39.342 with her at all purely because of the way she 0:20:39.382 --> 0:20:43.702 would treat people. She's very rich and she actually paid 0:20:43.782 --> 0:20:48.462 to get transferred to this yeah, the high security. Yeah, 0:20:48.982 --> 0:20:51.382 because she wanted to live on her own. She wanted 0:20:51.382 --> 0:20:53.782 to have all the phone she could get. She wanted 0:20:53.822 --> 0:20:59.182 to enter in clothing, entering, food, everything, and the guards 0:20:59.222 --> 0:21:03.022 would basically obey her. So she would pay the guards 0:21:03.062 --> 0:21:06.342 and they would enter in whatever she wanted. 0:21:06.542 --> 0:21:07.622 What was she in jail for. 0:21:08.462 --> 0:21:11.582 She was in dere because her her ex husband wanted 0:21:11.582 --> 0:21:14.822 a divorce, and so she then killed her ex husband, 0:21:14.902 --> 0:21:18.342 then killed her sister in law, killed the lawyer and 0:21:18.382 --> 0:21:18.982 the judge. 0:21:19.782 --> 0:21:20.742 Oh my god. 0:21:21.022 --> 0:21:24.982 Yeah, she's an interesting person and we had a lot 0:21:24.982 --> 0:21:25.502 of difference. 0:21:25.982 --> 0:21:31.702 The thing, Cassie, how do you have differences with someone 0:21:32.342 --> 0:21:35.022 who's killed lots of people? That doesn't seem sensible. 0:21:36.262 --> 0:21:39.462 I think is because she thought she was better than everyone. 0:21:39.942 --> 0:21:42.142 And I think going into a place like this, you 0:21:42.222 --> 0:21:45.822 have to forget about social status, You have to forget 0:21:45.822 --> 0:21:51.342 about everything. You are exactly the same as everyone, because 0:21:51.382 --> 0:21:54.222 it doesn't matter what you've done. You've done something illegal 0:21:54.302 --> 0:21:58.422 and you're there for a reason. So I got alone 0:21:58.582 --> 0:22:00.982 with quite a two people, and you know, I would 0:22:00.982 --> 0:22:04.942 actually train them. We do lunders what. It was a 0:22:04.942 --> 0:22:07.142 good distraction for me, So I would actually train a 0:22:07.142 --> 0:22:11.622 couple of girls, and and then it was Sophie, and 0:22:11.662 --> 0:22:14.462 Sophia's come up to me. She goes, I'll pay you 0:22:14.542 --> 0:22:17.902 triple what they're paying you if you train me. And 0:22:17.942 --> 0:22:20.902 I've kind of looked at Hannah, God, I don't need 0:22:20.982 --> 0:22:25.302 your money because I'm not asking for money from anyone 0:22:25.342 --> 0:22:26.862 to train them. And I said, that's what you do 0:22:26.942 --> 0:22:30.022 when you want to actually hang out with people and 0:22:30.102 --> 0:22:33.462 be a decent person. And from there it was just 0:22:33.502 --> 0:22:38.462 an instant clash because she thought if she had money 0:22:38.542 --> 0:22:40.982 and she threw money at someone that they would basically 0:22:41.182 --> 0:22:44.942 bow her feet and I wouldn't do it. So it's 0:22:44.982 --> 0:22:47.782 from there we just had lots of differences from there, 0:22:48.382 --> 0:22:51.302 and she actually managed to get me removed from the yard. 0:22:51.622 --> 0:22:53.702 She paid to get me removed. 0:22:54.622 --> 0:22:56.822 When you say differences, did she try to kill you? 0:22:57.542 --> 0:23:00.222 No? No, no she didn't. She didn't try to kill me, 0:23:00.342 --> 0:23:02.742 but she did make it clear that she has like 0:23:02.782 --> 0:23:05.542 a seventy year sentence and an extra body on it 0:23:05.582 --> 0:23:06.182 didn't matter. 0:23:06.342 --> 0:23:11.862 So wow, in terms of violence and the women that 0:23:11.902 --> 0:23:15.982 you were with, was there a hierarchy in terms of 0:23:16.422 --> 0:23:20.302 what women thought about the crimes of their fellow inmates, Like, 0:23:20.462 --> 0:23:23.742 was there a particularly heinous crime or was it just like, 0:23:23.822 --> 0:23:27.102 it doesn't matter if you're in here for robbery, drug smuggling, 0:23:27.182 --> 0:23:30.542 or murder. Everyone has a blank slate when they get 0:23:30.542 --> 0:23:31.022 to prison. 0:23:32.222 --> 0:23:37.302 Okay, So the only crime that was kind of really 0:23:37.542 --> 0:23:44.342 separated was any kind of child related crime. They couldn't 0:23:44.382 --> 0:23:49.062 even be close to any other inmates, purely because a 0:23:49.102 --> 0:23:51.262 lot of the women that are in there actually have kids, 0:23:52.022 --> 0:23:54.022 and so they would look at these people and think, well, 0:23:54.382 --> 0:23:56.182 you know, I've got kids. One of you would have 0:23:56.222 --> 0:23:59.422 done that to mind child. So they were actually quite 0:23:59.422 --> 0:24:03.422 often in danger of being close to any other inmates. 0:24:04.102 --> 0:24:08.102 Other than that, there wasn't any other particular crime that 0:24:08.262 --> 0:24:14.542 separated anyone. So you'd have your extortionists, you'd have your kidnappers, 0:24:14.622 --> 0:24:20.622 you'd have your money launderers, john traffickers, murderers, robbery. 0:24:21.382 --> 0:24:23.622 Did you hang out with the drug traffickers? Was it 0:24:23.742 --> 0:24:27.022 like high school? I mean, I should laugh, it's not funny, but. 0:24:28.462 --> 0:24:31.382 I think obviously the stories would go through And I 0:24:31.862 --> 0:24:36.342 did speak to quite a few bigger drug traffickers who 0:24:36.382 --> 0:24:39.742 you know, had been arrested with tons of cocaine and 0:24:39.822 --> 0:24:44.662 they got four years. So it was quite interesting to 0:24:44.822 --> 0:24:49.102 hear of their stories, and it showed such the imbalance 0:24:49.342 --> 0:24:52.422 in the justice system over there, because there might have 0:24:52.502 --> 0:24:56.142 been someone who had stolen two phones and they got 0:24:56.142 --> 0:25:01.902 twenty years. So if there is no actual guide or 0:25:01.982 --> 0:25:05.302 scale to go through salts, are you gonna say it's fair? 0:25:06.382 --> 0:25:09.462 But I didn't really hang out with anyone in particular. 0:25:10.542 --> 0:25:14.502 It was kind of based on the person, not what 0:25:14.542 --> 0:25:17.622 they had done. It's kind of you get to know 0:25:17.702 --> 0:25:22.702 the person without judging them, because if I'm there too, 0:25:22.822 --> 0:25:24.542 I don't have a right to judge any one. 0:25:25.062 --> 0:25:28.822 How long were you in prison before you received your 0:25:28.862 --> 0:25:31.222 sentence and what was that day? 0:25:31.382 --> 0:25:34.862 Like, I got sentence on the first of November in 0:25:34.942 --> 0:25:39.582 twenty seventeen, I'd been there for six months, and I 0:25:39.702 --> 0:25:42.262 was in that six months I'd kind of been forced 0:25:42.302 --> 0:25:47.222 to learn Spanish because I didn't trust my lawyer. So 0:25:47.342 --> 0:25:50.502 I would literally sit down with a book that's called 0:25:51.382 --> 0:25:55.862 Equale Little Bemal, which is like your judge's law book, 0:25:56.582 --> 0:25:59.902 and I would go through the laws and I would 0:25:59.982 --> 0:26:03.542 learn where my kids actually fit into the justice system, 0:26:04.342 --> 0:26:06.142 and I would actually argue with my lawyer. 0:26:06.222 --> 0:26:09.982 Hang on a second, you arrived in jail and in Colombia, 0:26:10.022 --> 0:26:14.182 not speaking any Spanish, you had to teach yourself not 0:26:14.302 --> 0:26:18.302 just Spanish, but also legal Spanish within six months. How 0:26:18.302 --> 0:26:19.062 did you do that? 0:26:19.742 --> 0:26:22.702 The termination? No one was going to do it for me. 0:26:23.542 --> 0:26:26.142 I guess I wanted to take away that barrier that 0:26:26.302 --> 0:26:31.662 was really separating me from having communication and understanding every 0:26:31.822 --> 0:26:34.462 step of the way of what was happening. Because I 0:26:34.462 --> 0:26:39.222 didn't understand Gods, I didn't understand the medical center. I 0:26:39.262 --> 0:26:45.342 didn't understand anything. And then obviously, in my first hearing 0:26:46.222 --> 0:26:48.942 the translator that had actually been picked for my case, 0:26:49.502 --> 0:26:53.982 he wasn't translating properly, and for me, I was like, oh, no, 0:26:54.262 --> 0:26:54.982 here we go. 0:26:55.822 --> 0:26:58.502 How did you know he wasn't translating properly if you 0:26:58.502 --> 0:26:59.942 didn't speak the language yet. 0:27:00.182 --> 0:27:02.942 I had a translator who was with me, a lady 0:27:02.942 --> 0:27:06.302 who had actually come from Australia to translate, and she 0:27:06.582 --> 0:27:10.862 was horrified at the translation service that the prosecuted offers 0:27:10.862 --> 0:27:11.662 had to give it. 0:27:12.902 --> 0:27:15.222 So, Cassie, how do you actually learn a language? I mean, 0:27:15.262 --> 0:27:17.502 it's not like you have access to the duo lingo 0:27:17.582 --> 0:27:19.142 app or anything in prison. 0:27:20.222 --> 0:27:23.262 It goes back to like really old school with a 0:27:23.342 --> 0:27:27.022 language dictionary, and basically I would pick word for word. 0:27:27.622 --> 0:27:30.982 So in a sentence, let's say I wanted to say 0:27:31.502 --> 0:27:34.902 I'm hungry, I had to figure out i'm and i'm 0:27:35.142 --> 0:27:37.302 such a common use, so I'd be like, okay, this 0:27:37.542 --> 0:27:41.622 they and then hungry is hungry. So it was like 0:27:41.662 --> 0:27:44.622 a process of elimination of Once I learned a word, 0:27:45.062 --> 0:27:47.222 I would just remove it from the words that I 0:27:47.262 --> 0:27:51.582 needed to learn. And it took me to actually properly 0:27:51.902 --> 0:27:56.062 speak it and understand word for word. It probably took 0:27:56.142 --> 0:27:59.902 me about eight nine months. And even now, like I 0:27:59.982 --> 0:28:03.462 think back at it and I don't remember the switch. 0:28:04.382 --> 0:28:07.342 I don't remember that day where suddenly I could be 0:28:07.462 --> 0:28:11.582 thinking in financial and actually speaking English or vice versa, 0:28:12.302 --> 0:28:17.342 because now I think in both languages, like I've not 0:28:17.502 --> 0:28:19.862 lost it at all, and it's quite interesting. 0:28:20.102 --> 0:28:23.382 Actually, one of the things that freaks me out the 0:28:23.422 --> 0:28:26.662 most about being in prison is the boredom. Did learning 0:28:26.662 --> 0:28:30.582 a language and having a goal provide something to do 0:28:30.862 --> 0:28:33.102 and some distraction and a purpose. 0:28:33.902 --> 0:28:38.382 I think learning the language was my stepping stone to 0:28:38.462 --> 0:28:43.262 being an English teacher, because I wanted to teach my 0:28:43.382 --> 0:28:50.262 inmates English because in Colombia not many people actually speak English, 0:28:50.302 --> 0:28:53.342 and if you do speak there's a whole world of opportunity, 0:28:53.822 --> 0:28:56.222 like it lifts you up in the social scale, in 0:28:56.262 --> 0:29:01.062 the working scale, everything. So I really wanted to, I guess, 0:29:01.662 --> 0:29:07.582 try and help them find a new path when they left, 0:29:08.062 --> 0:29:10.422 using the English that they had learned, so they didn't 0:29:10.582 --> 0:29:13.462 feel like this time in between had been kind of 0:29:14.342 --> 0:29:17.782 lost or they'd leave thinking, oh what am I going 0:29:17.862 --> 0:29:22.902 to do now? So my purpose, I guess you could say, 0:29:22.902 --> 0:29:28.022 actually became helping people inside jail. So I would teach 0:29:28.062 --> 0:29:31.662 them English. I would actually help them write their legal letters. 0:29:32.062 --> 0:29:35.942 It was really funny, actually the foreigner helping them do 0:29:36.382 --> 0:29:40.142 legal letters, Like that's how well I'd actually managed to 0:29:40.182 --> 0:29:42.822 learn the language, Like wouldn't just speak, I could read 0:29:42.862 --> 0:29:46.462 it and I could write it. So the amount of 0:29:46.462 --> 0:29:48.862 people that would come looking for me just to sit 0:29:48.942 --> 0:29:51.382 down and have a chat and you know, try and 0:29:51.542 --> 0:29:55.262 have motivation to get through another day, it was a lot. 0:29:56.302 --> 0:30:00.142 And so it felt like my time there I had 0:30:00.182 --> 0:30:05.462 actually used it well, so not only to reflect on 0:30:05.502 --> 0:30:08.862 my own problems, on my own issues, to actually be 0:30:08.902 --> 0:30:13.222 able to invest that time and I guess help other 0:30:13.262 --> 0:30:16.422 people find a good way to deal with what happened 0:30:16.462 --> 0:30:21.142 as well. When you discount you have to leave your 0:30:21.222 --> 0:30:24.742 yard and go to I guess school, which is inside 0:30:24.782 --> 0:30:25.182 the prison. 0:30:25.302 --> 0:30:26.422 What does discount mean. 0:30:27.182 --> 0:30:31.622 Discount is when you work to reduce your sentence. So 0:30:32.302 --> 0:30:36.142 in that sense, if you don't discount, you can't leave 0:30:36.182 --> 0:30:40.782 your yard. You are literally there until food's called and 0:30:40.782 --> 0:30:45.582 then that's it. So I obviously had the between eight 0:30:45.662 --> 0:30:50.742 am to midday, I was outside for classes and then 0:30:50.862 --> 0:30:53.302 back into the yard for lunch, and then back out 0:30:53.422 --> 0:30:56.582 again until about three point thirty and then I was 0:30:56.662 --> 0:31:01.102 back into the yard. So obviously that distracted me quite 0:31:01.142 --> 0:31:04.942 a lot, but it also gave me that movement through 0:31:04.982 --> 0:31:08.422 the prison if I needed to submit paperwork, if I 0:31:08.502 --> 0:31:12.502 needed to speak to the director, So that in that 0:31:12.742 --> 0:31:18.062 sentence there was obviously that with discounting, which allowed one 0:31:18.102 --> 0:31:21.862 to move more up. 0:31:21.902 --> 0:31:24.422 Next, Cassie talks about the day that she was sentenced 0:31:24.582 --> 0:31:27.942 to seventy two months behind bars. She talks about how 0:31:27.982 --> 0:31:31.982 people have sex in prison and the very public marriage 0:31:32.062 --> 0:31:34.422 proposal that she really didn't want. 0:31:36.862 --> 0:31:37.502 The day that you. 0:31:37.462 --> 0:31:40.822 Received your sentence, What was the sentence and how did 0:31:40.862 --> 0:31:42.502 you feel about it on that day? 0:31:42.862 --> 0:31:47.582 So I received seventy two months. In Columbia, they always 0:31:47.622 --> 0:31:51.102 say months. They don't say years. It's more daunting for 0:31:51.182 --> 0:31:56.822 me anyway, a six year sentence. The prosecutor had told 0:31:56.862 --> 0:32:01.222 me that he had requested in my file that doing 0:32:01.262 --> 0:32:05.102 discount dogs, I should be allowed to be released after 0:32:05.182 --> 0:32:09.942 two years on probation, which was burely dus one of 0:32:09.982 --> 0:32:12.222 his tap to get me to sign the plea deal, 0:32:12.902 --> 0:32:17.542 because it didn't happen like that at all. In part 0:32:17.542 --> 0:32:20.742 of it, I was still quite annoyed that my only 0:32:20.822 --> 0:32:23.942 option had been to sign a plea deal because my 0:32:24.062 --> 0:32:27.062 lawyer did not want to go down the other road. 0:32:27.142 --> 0:32:30.942 He refused the other road being what being going to 0:32:31.022 --> 0:32:32.862 trial and pleading not guilty. 0:32:33.302 --> 0:32:36.902 Yeah, he didn't want to go to trial. He didn't 0:32:36.942 --> 0:32:42.302 want to invest money investigators. So I kind of felt 0:32:42.302 --> 0:32:46.062 like I didn't have an option there. And then at 0:32:46.062 --> 0:32:49.102 the same time, I guess I knew the time that 0:32:49.222 --> 0:32:51.302 I would have to serve, so there was kind of 0:32:51.342 --> 0:32:55.382 that okay, mentally, I know how to prepare myself and 0:32:56.022 --> 0:32:58.822 what I need to do if I want to get 0:32:58.862 --> 0:33:04.542 out on probation or whatever available. It was really mixed feeling, 0:33:04.662 --> 0:33:07.022 and I remember going back to the yard and I 0:33:07.182 --> 0:33:10.902 was crying. I never cried in front of anyone, cried 0:33:11.062 --> 0:33:15.622 when I was alone. Why because I didn't want in 0:33:15.662 --> 0:33:19.222 particular when obviously media, I didn't want them thinking that 0:33:19.422 --> 0:33:23.702 I was victimizing myself or trying to make people feel 0:33:23.782 --> 0:33:27.502 sorry for me. So I never showed emotion in front 0:33:27.502 --> 0:33:30.622 of the media. I didn't want my family seeing me 0:33:31.462 --> 0:33:35.462 in that emotional wreck either, because it was hard enough 0:33:35.502 --> 0:33:39.102 seeing you know, family member in those circumstances, and then 0:33:39.142 --> 0:33:42.662 to see that mentally they're not copying. I couldn't do that. 0:33:43.382 --> 0:33:46.622 But then when I got back to the yard, I 0:33:46.782 --> 0:33:51.542 was crying. I was frustrated. I'm sad, and I wasn't 0:33:51.582 --> 0:33:54.902 seeing that clean and self. Okay, all right, Cassie, get 0:33:54.942 --> 0:33:58.182 hisself together. You need to wake out your plan. Now. 0:33:58.542 --> 0:34:03.662 I was in that moment of well, six years, seventy 0:34:03.702 --> 0:34:07.262 two months, and you'd go through and I think like 0:34:07.502 --> 0:34:12.462 in days, it was three thousand or four thousand days 0:34:12.702 --> 0:34:16.342 on the lady who had kind of taken me on 0:34:16.542 --> 0:34:19.462 as a mother figure, she came in and she's like, 0:34:19.582 --> 0:34:24.022 don't cry. She's like, you know what, it's gonna be fine, 0:34:24.022 --> 0:34:27.702 You're gonna get through it. You just need to process 0:34:27.702 --> 0:34:31.662 what's happening and then just just do it. And I 0:34:31.702 --> 0:34:34.142 was thinking in the moment off, well, thank you for 0:34:34.222 --> 0:34:36.942 bad advice. You know, that makes me feel so much 0:34:36.982 --> 0:34:40.102 better in this line, right. But I think something that 0:34:40.182 --> 0:34:44.022 really helped me push through that mental block of well 0:34:44.262 --> 0:34:48.182 six years was the fact that as bad as I 0:34:48.342 --> 0:34:51.382 felt that I had line at that moment, as bad 0:34:51.382 --> 0:34:54.302 as I felt that my situation was, there was always 0:34:54.302 --> 0:34:57.742 going to be someone who was going through something so 0:34:57.902 --> 0:35:01.782 much worse. I didn't have children, and that was something 0:35:01.822 --> 0:35:04.862 that I really focus on. I didn't have children. There 0:35:04.942 --> 0:35:09.462 was so many women there that have children outside abandoned 0:35:09.542 --> 0:35:12.302 because no one could after that, they would have to 0:35:12.302 --> 0:35:14.382 give up their rights as parents, put them in the 0:35:14.382 --> 0:35:18.662 foster system. That's where he came from wanting to help 0:35:18.702 --> 0:35:21.782 people because I thought, you know, I went through some 0:35:21.902 --> 0:35:27.262 pretty crappy things, but I'm okay, you know. So it 0:35:27.342 --> 0:35:30.582 was like, if I can help them just feel good 0:35:30.782 --> 0:35:34.302 for a day or a moment, they're the little things 0:35:34.342 --> 0:35:37.302 that allow us to just move forward and take one 0:35:37.502 --> 0:35:40.142 day at a time, because that's all we can do. 0:35:40.262 --> 0:35:41.822 There is one day at a time. 0:35:43.142 --> 0:35:46.702 When you went into prison, you're engaged to a guy 0:35:47.302 --> 0:35:51.142 called Scott. Yeah, how'd that pan out? 0:35:51.662 --> 0:35:57.262 Well, it didn't last very long. Purely because I would 0:35:57.342 --> 0:36:01.742 call him, I guess, wanting to have a normal chat, right, 0:36:02.182 --> 0:36:04.822 a normal chat about life, and you know he would 0:36:04.862 --> 0:36:08.182 parlol all his problems outside. 0:36:08.462 --> 0:36:09.862 While you were in prison. 0:36:11.462 --> 0:36:13.942 And so he'd be like, no, this is happening, this 0:36:13.982 --> 0:36:16.542 is happening, I need these. I'm thinking, oh my god, 0:36:17.422 --> 0:36:21.302 like I can't deal with with all of that, Like, 0:36:21.382 --> 0:36:24.942 I'll be here as much as I can. And then 0:36:24.982 --> 0:36:27.222 it would be he would ring me out to complain 0:36:27.622 --> 0:36:29.502 about the problems with my mum. 0:36:29.822 --> 0:36:32.462 Do you get phone privileges? Do they listen to your 0:36:32.462 --> 0:36:33.182 phone calls? 0:36:33.902 --> 0:36:38.062 So for each yard there is one phone that allows 0:36:38.222 --> 0:36:42.622 incoming calls, so you might be there for like three 0:36:42.662 --> 0:36:45.582 hours trying to actually get a call to be accepted. 0:36:46.742 --> 0:36:50.862 Or the other option is we can buy phone cards 0:36:51.782 --> 0:36:55.502 and with that you can call out. However, the phone 0:36:55.502 --> 0:36:59.222 cards are like three thousand pays and five thousand pay 0:36:59.262 --> 0:37:03.342 so and I would literally get from three thousand pacer, 0:37:03.462 --> 0:37:07.062 i'd get like a minute phone call and from five 0:37:07.102 --> 0:37:09.942 thousand i'd get two and a half. Because the rate 0:37:10.022 --> 0:37:13.622 to call home was really expensive, and not only that, 0:37:13.822 --> 0:37:17.182 the hours the hour difference was impossible. 0:37:18.902 --> 0:37:21.942 And how long did you stay together before it ended. 0:37:22.702 --> 0:37:27.702 I think we were together until January and twenty eighteen, 0:37:28.582 --> 0:37:32.062 but before then it had already finished. I guess you 0:37:32.062 --> 0:37:35.902 could say like there was no real communication anymore. It 0:37:35.982 --> 0:37:38.462 almost like he would call you because he felt like 0:37:38.502 --> 0:37:42.182 he had to type thing, not because he wanted to. 0:37:42.982 --> 0:37:47.302 And I think he for me was just like a 0:37:47.382 --> 0:37:52.582 comfort zone type thing more than anything, because even before 0:37:52.622 --> 0:37:56.022 coming to Colombia, you know, being engage, I never actually 0:37:56.102 --> 0:37:59.622 wanted to marry him, so it was quite a transformation 0:38:00.062 --> 0:38:02.062 time or in the middle there. 0:38:01.862 --> 0:38:04.622 Really tell me about love and sex in prison? 0:38:05.622 --> 0:38:12.782 Okay, So in prison once a mon there are what 0:38:12.862 --> 0:38:16.902 they call conjugal visits, basically a sex visit, which is 0:38:17.302 --> 0:38:20.422 throughout the normal time that they do visits on the weekend. 0:38:20.622 --> 0:38:22.622 You have to have a registered partner to come in 0:38:23.462 --> 0:38:26.342 and see you. If you do have a partner inside 0:38:26.382 --> 0:38:29.262 the present, you can also request to go to where 0:38:29.302 --> 0:38:33.182 they live or they go to you. Apparently sexual health 0:38:33.302 --> 0:38:34.662 is very important in prison. 0:38:35.142 --> 0:38:37.022 Wow, Where do these conjugal visits happen? 0:38:37.422 --> 0:38:41.902 In the cells? So if you share a cell with 0:38:42.782 --> 0:38:46.102 one to five people, basically you would have to take 0:38:46.182 --> 0:38:49.582 turns of who would have the visit. So I will 0:38:49.582 --> 0:38:53.502 actually quite lucky. I never never had one, even having 0:38:53.662 --> 0:38:58.382 I guess I had girlfriends inside, but I never felt 0:38:59.102 --> 0:39:03.102 that I wanted to, I guess to say, I never 0:39:03.182 --> 0:39:08.822 felt that connection to actually want to commit to having 0:39:08.902 --> 0:39:10.022 a conjugal visit. 0:39:10.102 --> 0:39:12.182 What it mean to have a girlfriend inside? Was that 0:39:12.182 --> 0:39:13.182 a really common thing? 0:39:13.662 --> 0:39:16.742 It was very common. You would actually see people who 0:39:16.862 --> 0:39:19.222 have their husbands who live outside and then they have 0:39:19.342 --> 0:39:22.382 their girl braends. But it was quite common, I guess 0:39:22.462 --> 0:39:26.262 because more than the sexual side, I think it was 0:39:26.382 --> 0:39:31.182 just that having someone to confide in to share times 0:39:31.742 --> 0:39:34.662 make it a little bit easier, and ideally it would 0:39:34.662 --> 0:39:38.022 always start because they're your friend, and then it kind 0:39:38.022 --> 0:39:39.222 of just goes from there. 0:39:39.822 --> 0:39:41.142 Had you been with women before? 0:39:42.222 --> 0:39:45.542 Uh? Yes, When I was younger, I actually knew that 0:39:45.662 --> 0:39:49.382 I liked women, but I was too scared to come out. 0:39:50.422 --> 0:39:55.702 And I had been so convinced that after having I guess, 0:39:56.222 --> 0:39:58.942 whether it'd be kissing a girl or having you know, 0:39:59.102 --> 0:40:01.782 a relationship with a girl, something would always go bad 0:40:01.862 --> 0:40:06.262 in my life. And so I started kind of convincing 0:40:06.302 --> 0:40:09.622 myself that I was having such a hard time in 0:40:09.662 --> 0:40:13.862 life because I wasn't normal well, and so that's where 0:40:14.062 --> 0:40:17.302 you know, I started forcing myself to have boyfriends and 0:40:17.462 --> 0:40:21.902 try and be normal, and then it was horrible that 0:40:22.062 --> 0:40:25.622 I can tell you right now. I hated having sex 0:40:25.662 --> 0:40:29.622 with a man. I hated it. And it was just 0:40:30.782 --> 0:40:34.862 purely having boyfriends for an image, because I mean, you 0:40:34.902 --> 0:40:37.502 can speak to any of my exes and I wasn't 0:40:37.542 --> 0:40:42.022 sexually active with them. It was more so that having 0:40:42.062 --> 0:40:45.382 them there, you know, sharing a meal, going out to 0:40:45.422 --> 0:40:49.302 the movies, and so for me, it was always more 0:40:49.342 --> 0:40:51.942 on that side of just a friend. Really. 0:40:53.022 --> 0:40:58.222 Yeah, right, So in some ways being in prison and 0:40:58.302 --> 0:41:01.022 having no other options was it a bit freeing. 0:41:02.502 --> 0:41:05.142 So when I arrived to prison and I saw how 0:41:06.182 --> 0:41:10.382 free and unjudgmental everything was, it was I still thought. 0:41:10.902 --> 0:41:12.862 Don't get me wrong, I fought it for quite some 0:41:12.942 --> 0:41:15.342 plan because I was like, no, I can't be the 0:41:15.382 --> 0:41:19.222 new girl who suddenly is a lesbian who will be 0:41:19.262 --> 0:41:22.382 picked on. So I kept it to myself for at 0:41:22.502 --> 0:41:25.582 least another year or so before I kind of just 0:41:25.702 --> 0:41:29.662 let it out. And I think this was also part 0:41:29.782 --> 0:41:35.102 of my reflection process of finally allowing me to be me. 0:41:36.222 --> 0:41:38.822 And the thing is I already had the worst reputation, 0:41:39.022 --> 0:41:41.382 so I'd thought, you know what, what could be worth, 0:41:41.742 --> 0:41:44.222 you know, I can't get any more on the bottom. 0:41:44.462 --> 0:41:48.622 And I guess coming out and being around people who 0:41:48.702 --> 0:41:52.702 actually supported that it really helped boost that self esteem 0:41:52.742 --> 0:41:56.702 of Okay, I can do this, you know. So it 0:41:56.742 --> 0:41:59.862 was really enlightening, felt like a huge weight had been 0:41:59.862 --> 0:42:01.262 lifted off my shoulders. 0:42:01.702 --> 0:42:04.102 In prison, the prison you were in, was there a 0:42:04.142 --> 0:42:07.822 lot of casual sex or it was more relationships? 0:42:08.702 --> 0:42:11.902 I think it was more relationships then casual sex. 0:42:12.342 --> 0:42:15.422 And I can't imagine there's much privacy in jail. No 0:42:15.742 --> 0:42:16.702 where do you hook up. 0:42:17.182 --> 0:42:20.022 They would do it in the cells, like they no 0:42:20.142 --> 0:42:23.222 worries about that, and there would be people, let's say 0:42:23.262 --> 0:42:26.222 it wasn't a sex visit and two pop would going 0:42:26.262 --> 0:42:28.742 at it in a cell. They would actually pay someone 0:42:28.782 --> 0:42:30.902 to keep watch to make sure no guard was coming. 0:42:31.822 --> 0:42:34.022 So would the guards just turn a blind eye, or 0:42:34.102 --> 0:42:37.622 if there was no one being paid, they'd tell you 0:42:37.662 --> 0:42:38.302 to stop. 0:42:38.062 --> 0:42:41.022 It, so if you get caught, you would actually be 0:42:41.342 --> 0:42:45.742 separated and sent to different yards. And it also be 0:42:45.982 --> 0:42:49.102 something they called an in fordy, which is like a 0:42:49.142 --> 0:42:52.782 behavior record, so you'd now have bad behate. 0:42:52.822 --> 0:42:56.702 Yeah right, so it wasn't as easy as some might imagine. Yeah, no, 0:42:56.862 --> 0:43:11.022 it wasn't and some planning was requiet. Absolutely, you got 0:43:11.062 --> 0:43:15.102 engaged in prison, and for reasons that I can't explain. 0:43:15.182 --> 0:43:19.502 I've seen the video. Someone took a video of it, 0:43:19.662 --> 0:43:20.862 and it was. 0:43:20.862 --> 0:43:22.222 Leaked or sold. 0:43:22.262 --> 0:43:25.742 I should say, no doubt to the media. Tell me 0:43:25.782 --> 0:43:27.622 about Jolie. 0:43:27.862 --> 0:43:31.542 So this one was an interesting one. We were friends, 0:43:32.502 --> 0:43:36.022 you know, it went from friends at pajure Kitsie and 0:43:36.062 --> 0:43:41.222 then I guess relying on that friendship until one day 0:43:41.302 --> 0:43:44.822 we had actually come back in from the exercising that 0:43:44.862 --> 0:43:48.622 we're allowed to do, and she's really weird and there 0:43:48.662 --> 0:43:51.902 she's like, you can't come out and sell okay, And 0:43:51.902 --> 0:43:54.342 then when I did come out, there was this huge 0:43:54.382 --> 0:43:59.262 post we married me. Oh, everyone in the yard had 0:43:59.302 --> 0:44:02.902 literally come to watch this. I can't think of anything 0:44:02.942 --> 0:44:07.742 worse than a public proposal. I had not actually considered 0:44:08.182 --> 0:44:11.182 marrying this girl, and now I've been put on the 0:44:11.222 --> 0:44:11.942 spot of. 0:44:12.342 --> 0:44:15.022 We marry How long had you been together? 0:44:15.622 --> 0:44:17.582 I think we would have been together maybe like four 0:44:17.742 --> 0:44:21.982 or five months, right, And so I've come out and 0:44:22.142 --> 0:44:23.982 she did this whole speech and I kind of just 0:44:24.062 --> 0:44:26.862 looked at her, and I looked at everyone, and I 0:44:26.982 --> 0:44:31.822 go yes, because I didn't know what to do, and 0:44:31.822 --> 0:44:35.182 I thought, you know what to leave here? I leave 0:44:35.262 --> 0:44:40.062 this area, no one will em I know. And then 0:44:40.662 --> 0:44:42.982 when we went and told you right, I said, you know, 0:44:43.182 --> 0:44:46.382 I don't want to marry you, like right now, we 0:44:46.422 --> 0:44:50.502 are in such an enclosed environment. We don't know what 0:44:50.542 --> 0:44:53.062 will happen when we go outside. The relationship will be 0:44:53.782 --> 0:44:57.342 completely different. And she's like, no, it's fine, you know, 0:44:57.862 --> 0:45:00.742 just looking at the promise, Rey, she knew that I 0:45:00.862 --> 0:45:04.222 wasn't going to marry her, but I guess kind of 0:45:04.262 --> 0:45:07.862 went along with the idea of it, which was an 0:45:07.982 --> 0:45:10.862 error in this time that I guess I didn't realize 0:45:10.862 --> 0:45:15.582 that I'm falling into that because we were not good 0:45:15.622 --> 0:45:20.142 for each other at all. She very toxic person. Being 0:45:20.182 --> 0:45:23.902 with a woman you expect to receive the same treatment 0:45:23.902 --> 0:45:26.742 that you would give them, not the whole I'm better 0:45:26.782 --> 0:45:29.022 than you. You need to do what I say type thing. 0:45:29.702 --> 0:45:33.942 So at the start she was a really really nice person, 0:45:34.782 --> 0:45:38.662 and then probably when she thought she had control of me, 0:45:39.462 --> 0:45:40.382 completely changed. 0:45:41.142 --> 0:45:44.862 You were released from prison early. When did you find 0:45:44.862 --> 0:45:48.022 out that your sentence had been reduced and you were 0:45:48.022 --> 0:45:48.902 going out? 0:45:49.262 --> 0:45:51.742 So I had a meeting with my judge. It would 0:45:51.782 --> 0:45:55.942 have been in December twenty nineteen, and I actually wasn't 0:45:55.942 --> 0:45:58.382 going to talk to her. We didn't get along very well. 0:45:58.862 --> 0:46:04.102 Her son had had an overdose on drugs and unfortunately 0:46:04.102 --> 0:46:08.022 passed away, so she was quite hard shouldn't any type 0:46:08.062 --> 0:46:11.222 of case that involved drugs. And the first time I'd 0:46:11.262 --> 0:46:12.942 ever met with her, she's like, you know what, don't 0:46:12.942 --> 0:46:16.702 bother coming to see me. It's six years, that's it, 0:46:17.022 --> 0:46:18.902 So why would I bother going a talking tree again 0:46:19.022 --> 0:46:22.582 me just to be let down. So when I hadn't 0:46:22.622 --> 0:46:25.182 saw her this day, it was the end of the 0:46:25.262 --> 0:46:27.542 day and someone was like, why don't you just go 0:46:27.582 --> 0:46:29.902 and talk to her? You know, she's in a good mood. 0:46:29.982 --> 0:46:31.862 I thought, yeah, what's a good mood from a pig 0:46:32.022 --> 0:46:35.062 this lady? So I thought, all right, gone in there, 0:46:35.422 --> 0:46:42.862 sat down, and she goes, hi, Hi, the big Spanish 0:46:42.902 --> 0:46:46.742 shit said yeah, that's how long I had not seen her. 0:46:47.302 --> 0:46:50.942 I had not lost any false hope in going to 0:46:51.022 --> 0:46:53.262 see her and waiting for an answer that I knew 0:46:53.302 --> 0:46:56.462 I wasn't going to get. And she goes, what have 0:46:56.502 --> 0:46:58.702 you been doing? And I'm pretty much just holding you 0:46:58.702 --> 0:47:01.342 know that I've been teaching, and she brought up my 0:47:01.382 --> 0:47:03.422 file and she's looking and she's, oh, you've got a 0:47:03.462 --> 0:47:08.822 fair amount of discount. I don't on yeah, I think 0:47:08.822 --> 0:47:10.862 I had maybe like eight or nine months that i'd 0:47:10.862 --> 0:47:13.662 managed to wake up over two and a half years. 0:47:14.862 --> 0:47:18.342 And she goes, you know what, Cassandra, because they don't 0:47:18.342 --> 0:47:21.462 say Cassie over there, it's all full name, So why 0:47:21.462 --> 0:47:24.062 are you just send me in your paperwork? And I'm 0:47:24.102 --> 0:47:27.062 going oh, and I'm thinking in my head i'm doing 0:47:27.062 --> 0:47:29.342 the maths. I'm going I don't have time yet to 0:47:29.422 --> 0:47:32.462 do that. So i'd be like, hey, thanks you, and 0:47:32.502 --> 0:47:35.862 I left and I didn't send my paperwork in why 0:47:36.822 --> 0:47:40.502 because I knew by law that I had to have 0:47:40.862 --> 0:47:44.302 three fifths of my sentence to be considered for PEROT 0:47:45.102 --> 0:47:48.382 and I didn't have that yet, and I did not 0:47:48.582 --> 0:47:50.822 want to be let down by sending it and then 0:47:50.862 --> 0:47:54.462 her going oh no, sorry, can't do it yet. Well 0:47:54.542 --> 0:47:57.062 I thought, okay, I'm going to be smart. I'm just 0:47:57.062 --> 0:48:00.102 going to wait the eche of time and i'll send 0:48:00.142 --> 0:48:03.862 it in when I do have time. So it was 0:48:04.022 --> 0:48:08.142 in February. In February, I managed to saw out everything 0:48:08.182 --> 0:48:11.662 that I needed to legally are us for her role, 0:48:12.382 --> 0:48:16.142 send it in and then I didn't hear anything at 0:48:16.182 --> 0:48:20.142 all that'd be and the prison was always making up 0:48:20.182 --> 0:48:24.262 excuses for not sending paperwork that the judge needs, so 0:48:24.302 --> 0:48:28.382 they have to send through your behavioral report, the discount report, 0:48:29.302 --> 0:48:31.782 and there would always be we don't have any paper, 0:48:32.222 --> 0:48:37.102 we don't have any print, ink, the internet's down. Like 0:48:37.342 --> 0:48:40.222 getting out of that place, they make it in possible. 0:48:42.142 --> 0:48:46.862 So when obviously the judge actually subpointed my documents because 0:48:46.862 --> 0:48:50.262 they realized that it was taking way too long. And 0:48:50.302 --> 0:48:53.102 then I think it was in March, towards the end 0:48:53.102 --> 0:48:56.222 of March, and they just started calling every day, calling 0:48:56.302 --> 0:48:57.902 judges of us every day. I thought, you know what, 0:48:58.462 --> 0:48:59.782 I'm just going to be a paved in the yards 0:48:59.822 --> 0:49:04.382 now signed cooler, and the assistant be like, no, nothing yet, 0:49:04.462 --> 0:49:09.302 nothing yet. And then it so happened the last weekend 0:49:09.422 --> 0:49:12.182 in March. Hadn't called him a few days. I don't 0:49:12.182 --> 0:49:15.622 know why han't it called. And I woke up on 0:49:15.662 --> 0:49:17.942 the Monday and I thought, you know what, I'm gonna 0:49:17.942 --> 0:49:20.702 go on cold. So I'm cold out of the office 0:49:20.782 --> 0:49:24.142 and the assistant already near my boy, and You're like, I, Cassandra, 0:49:24.782 --> 0:49:28.262 am I I'm just checking to see if if anything's 0:49:28.262 --> 0:49:31.102 been untrued, and he goes, yeah, it's been approved, right 0:49:31.182 --> 0:49:34.702 kind of. And I'm god, what, like he took me 0:49:35.582 --> 0:49:38.702 like time to process that. And he goes, it's been 0:49:38.942 --> 0:49:42.262 approved and no, I'm like, don't cheat about these things. 0:49:42.462 --> 0:49:44.782 He's like, why would I joke about this? It's my job. 0:49:45.422 --> 0:49:47.742 I'm like, well, I didn't mean it like that. I'm 0:49:47.822 --> 0:49:51.462 just trying to process it. He's like, yeap, you need 0:49:51.502 --> 0:49:55.822 to organize your bond caution, which was about I think 0:49:55.862 --> 0:49:59.342 two thousand dollars, and then you need to send the 0:49:59.422 --> 0:50:02.062 receipt to the judge's office and then they will issue 0:50:02.142 --> 0:50:03.062 the freedom slip. 0:50:04.382 --> 0:50:05.662 Freedom slip. 0:50:06.102 --> 0:50:09.662 Yeah, And I didn't tell anyone, didn't tell anyone why. 0:50:09.702 --> 0:50:12.182 I back to my and I just sat there and 0:50:12.222 --> 0:50:14.542 I was kind of picking the people that I was telling. 0:50:15.382 --> 0:50:19.182 So I've gone down to the lady who had received 0:50:19.222 --> 0:50:22.222 me the first time in that yard, and I've gone, 0:50:22.262 --> 0:50:25.102 you know what, I've just been told that my parole 0:50:25.182 --> 0:50:29.262 has been granted. And she started to cry, You're leaving me, 0:50:29.502 --> 0:50:31.862 you know, leave me your line, You're gonna forget about me. 0:50:32.502 --> 0:50:35.022 And I'm thinking, no, it's not the case. I'm like, 0:50:35.062 --> 0:50:36.942 if anything, I can probably help you more on the 0:50:36.982 --> 0:50:41.222 outside than the inside. And then obviously by people started 0:50:41.262 --> 0:50:43.782 to put it together because people were coming to visit 0:50:43.822 --> 0:50:46.102 me and they'd be like, oh, can you leave me 0:50:46.142 --> 0:50:50.382 this Chlothy, because the idea obviously I didn't really want 0:50:50.422 --> 0:50:53.502 to take anything that had been inside there of kind 0:50:53.502 --> 0:50:58.342 of leaving anything, I guess with that kind of energy there. 0:50:59.382 --> 0:51:02.862 And then time went by, and I had a friend 0:51:02.902 --> 0:51:06.222 on the outside now and I'm arguing with her every 0:51:06.302 --> 0:51:09.622 day because I'm thinking, why it's taking so long, and 0:51:09.662 --> 0:51:12.062 the poor thing like she was trying to do. 0:51:12.222 --> 0:51:14.222 A friend that you'd made in prison, who is now 0:51:15.102 --> 0:51:17.742 named Crystal. Yeah, and when you'd spoken to the guy 0:51:17.742 --> 0:51:19.782 on the phone, had he given you any indication of 0:51:19.822 --> 0:51:20.502 time frame? 0:51:21.142 --> 0:51:25.222 No? And the thing is we were in Colombia at 0:51:25.262 --> 0:51:28.622 that point. We were actually about to go into quarantine 0:51:28.702 --> 0:51:33.862 for COVID, So I had days to get this organized 0:51:34.102 --> 0:51:38.302 or I would not have been released. Crystal running a 0:51:38.382 --> 0:51:41.222 mark out sign, she went and did the deposit for 0:51:41.262 --> 0:51:44.302 the caution, took it to the Dadgit's out birth and 0:51:44.342 --> 0:51:48.342 then nothing happened either, And so I started pressuring the 0:51:48.702 --> 0:51:50.902 guards from the inside as well, and I said, you 0:51:50.982 --> 0:51:54.142 know what, it's come up on the system online now 0:51:54.222 --> 0:51:57.622 that it says that my freedom slip has been issued. 0:51:58.622 --> 0:52:00.782 And there's a law in Columbia that says once it's 0:52:00.822 --> 0:52:03.622 been issued, they can't keep you for more than twenty 0:52:03.662 --> 0:52:08.422 four hours because then it comes kidding, it's nice to 0:52:08.462 --> 0:52:11.502 know these sorts of law. Its once some of the 0:52:11.502 --> 0:52:15.022 guards are saying, no, nothing's come through. Yeut. And then 0:52:16.142 --> 0:52:18.942 one guard who I got along with really well. She 0:52:19.062 --> 0:52:21.582 hated me when I arrived, but by the end she 0:52:21.622 --> 0:52:24.742 absolutely loved me. And I said, look, it comes up 0:52:24.822 --> 0:52:27.902 in the system that it was sent. It was Friday. 0:52:27.942 --> 0:52:31.542 Now she's look, I'm going to have a look, but 0:52:31.702 --> 0:52:35.502 I can't promise you anything. So she went out there 0:52:35.542 --> 0:52:38.382 and probably within like two hours, would have been about 0:52:38.382 --> 0:52:42.662 midday on Friday on the third of April, and she goes, look, 0:52:43.102 --> 0:52:46.942 here's what you mean to sign, which is basically compromising 0:52:47.062 --> 0:52:50.182 that I would not leave the country, that I had 0:52:50.222 --> 0:52:53.462 to report to immigration. Looked a month. I thought, Oh, okay, 0:52:53.782 --> 0:52:55.782 She's like, I'm going to do this, like now I 0:52:55.822 --> 0:52:58.302 have to do an Interpol chat. She said that might 0:52:58.342 --> 0:53:01.542 take a while. Okay, so but if everything goes wow, 0:53:01.662 --> 0:53:04.822 you should be released today. She's like, you should be 0:53:04.822 --> 0:53:09.742 released before six pm, and say, I'm excited. I've rung 0:53:09.822 --> 0:53:12.542 up Crystal, like I'm getting out today. You need to 0:53:12.542 --> 0:53:15.142 come and pick me up. And so this poor girl, 0:53:15.302 --> 0:53:20.822 she's she's coming. She was waiting outside the prison for hours, 0:53:21.222 --> 0:53:24.702 and I didn't hear anything back from the guard. Nothing. 0:53:25.342 --> 0:53:27.822 We did the head count, and we all know that 0:53:27.902 --> 0:53:31.182 once they've done the head count, that's it. Nobody leaves, 0:53:31.262 --> 0:53:34.342 nobody comes it. And so I I don't think I'm 0:53:34.342 --> 0:53:39.022 getting out, and literally it was such a down feeling 0:53:39.182 --> 0:53:44.382 because that Saturday we were starting quarantine. And then so 0:53:44.422 --> 0:53:46.862 I've gone and actually changed into my padama and I've 0:53:46.902 --> 0:53:50.262 gone and use a burn a phone in the toilet, 0:53:50.502 --> 0:53:53.422 just to tell Crystal, you know, just go home, don't 0:53:53.502 --> 0:53:57.542 keep waiting around. And then the guard's called my name 0:53:58.462 --> 0:54:01.862 and I'm either literally throwing this figure. I don't need 0:54:01.862 --> 0:54:05.742 a bad behavior record now, and I've walked up and 0:54:05.822 --> 0:54:08.262 it happened to be one of the guards who had 0:54:08.342 --> 0:54:11.022 also received me, and she goes, what. 0:54:11.022 --> 0:54:11.502 Are you doing? 0:54:11.742 --> 0:54:14.702 I don't know. She goes, You've got a guilty looker 0:54:14.742 --> 0:54:16.982 on your face. She's like, you don't know how to lie. 0:54:17.222 --> 0:54:19.502 They'd got no, no, no, nothing, and she had a 0:54:19.502 --> 0:54:21.902 piece of paper in a hand. She goes, you're ready, 0:54:22.662 --> 0:54:25.622 and I'm here for what Like At this point, I 0:54:25.702 --> 0:54:28.942 was so convinced that I wasn't getting out, and she goes, 0:54:29.302 --> 0:54:34.462 it's time to go, and I literally going, fuck, no, 0:54:35.662 --> 0:54:38.822 how's I have a rush to change? And everyone's coming 0:54:38.822 --> 0:54:42.382 out just saying bye to me. And then when I 0:54:42.502 --> 0:54:45.742 walked out of my passageway, the guards had actually opened 0:54:45.822 --> 0:54:48.382 up the other passageways so people could say by to 0:54:48.422 --> 0:54:52.502 me as well, which was quite overwhelming because I had 0:54:52.502 --> 0:54:55.062 probably been one of the most hated people when I arrived, 0:54:55.702 --> 0:54:58.382 so everyone was hugging me. And then I got sent 0:54:58.502 --> 0:55:01.462 to medical to get checked over that I was in 0:55:01.502 --> 0:55:05.782 the same condition that I arrived, and then I was out, 0:55:06.342 --> 0:55:09.222 and when I was coming back from medical, you actually 0:55:09.302 --> 0:55:13.542 have the pass or all the arts, and it was 0:55:13.622 --> 0:55:17.982 really overwhelming because the guards were actually allowing people to 0:55:18.022 --> 0:55:20.102 come out of each yard to say goodbye to me. 0:55:20.822 --> 0:55:25.262 Oh yeah, emotional okay, And I was quite overwhelming because 0:55:25.422 --> 0:55:28.262 I didn't think that I had made so much of 0:55:28.302 --> 0:55:32.422 a difference that people would actually, I guess, feel that 0:55:32.542 --> 0:55:38.142 kind of emotion with me. So they all saying goodbye 0:55:38.262 --> 0:55:42.062 to me, thanking me, and then I walked. I walked 0:55:42.062 --> 0:55:45.822 down and the guards stopped me, and she goes, if 0:55:45.822 --> 0:55:49.022 you only saw the person that we will see wise, 0:55:50.742 --> 0:55:56.462 that's it. And so I walked out the front. And 0:55:56.502 --> 0:55:58.662 it was really weird now walking through the prison. I 0:55:58.702 --> 0:56:02.502 didn't feel like prisoner. And so I walked out the front. 0:56:02.782 --> 0:56:06.982 I was officially signed out of their books, and I 0:56:07.342 --> 0:56:10.382 walked right up to the blue gate and kind of 0:56:10.582 --> 0:56:13.462 stood back, and you know, all the guards coming to 0:56:13.462 --> 0:56:17.222 say goodbye to me as well, and the lady who 0:56:17.302 --> 0:56:19.942 was working the door, she gets you ready as a no, 0:56:21.022 --> 0:56:23.462 so I'm not ready, So I don't know what wait 0:56:23.542 --> 0:56:27.942 to me. On the other side, I was terrified, so scared. 0:56:27.662 --> 0:56:29.942 What were you scared of life? 0:56:30.942 --> 0:56:35.222 I didn't know how to pick myself up and keep going. 0:56:37.382 --> 0:56:41.502 So I brought through the door and Crystal was still there, 0:56:41.542 --> 0:56:43.582 and she was in her own little world. She was 0:56:43.622 --> 0:56:47.262 actually hitting on an army guy to be precise. I 0:56:47.262 --> 0:56:49.422 wanted to stand there and realized that they've come out. 0:56:49.582 --> 0:56:53.342 She's screaming. She ran over to me, and you know, 0:56:53.422 --> 0:56:57.502 I stood there and it was so surreal, like it 0:56:57.622 --> 0:57:01.382 wasn't hitting me that I had just left prison and 0:57:01.462 --> 0:57:06.222 I wouldn't be going back in there. And then obviously 0:57:06.222 --> 0:57:09.942 we got in a taxi and going through like everyone 0:57:10.022 --> 0:57:13.502 was ready in quarantine, so it was a ghost town. 0:57:14.462 --> 0:57:17.142 So it didn't really give me that feeling off and 0:57:17.342 --> 0:57:19.542 back in society. It was kind of like the oh, 0:57:19.982 --> 0:57:22.182 all right, I'm out of prison. I've going to lock 0:57:22.302 --> 0:57:24.822 myself in a room now because of quarantine. 0:57:27.822 --> 0:57:31.102 I just loved that conversation and I wanted to keep going, 0:57:31.342 --> 0:57:35.542 so we spoke more about her life after her time 0:57:35.622 --> 0:57:39.622 in prison. Coming out was daunting, she says, but it 0:57:39.822 --> 0:57:43.022 was much harder even than she could have imagined. Here's 0:57:43.062 --> 0:57:43.702 a little taste. 0:57:44.182 --> 0:57:46.342 I felt like every time I tried to take a 0:57:46.422 --> 0:57:49.062 step forward in the right direction, I would just get 0:57:49.422 --> 0:57:52.582 not back, or I'd hit a reap wall. Because I 0:57:52.622 --> 0:57:55.862 couldn't work because I had no papers. I couldn't receive 0:57:56.022 --> 0:57:58.702 money from my family because I had no papers, I 0:57:58.742 --> 0:58:02.142 couldn't know anything. And then obviously the polstant fear of 0:58:02.582 --> 0:58:04.222 when I had to go out and do food shopping 0:58:04.382 --> 0:58:06.742 that if I got stopped by a police officer, well 0:58:06.742 --> 0:58:07.782 I was going back to prison. 0:58:08.422 --> 0:58:10.982 Because of her parole conditions, she I'm allowed to come 0:58:10.982 --> 0:58:13.582 back to Australia, and also because it was COVID, she 0:58:13.702 --> 0:58:17.062 couldn't even leave the house. But she wasn't going to 0:58:17.182 --> 0:58:20.302 let her mistakes to find her. And what's really interesting 0:58:20.422 --> 0:58:23.822 about this next phase of her life is how she 0:58:24.342 --> 0:58:27.862 just shrugged off the shame. It's such a great conversation. 0:58:28.262 --> 0:58:30.942 To listen to part two of my conversation with Cassie, 0:58:31.302 --> 0:58:34.062 just click the link in the show notes. The executive 0:58:34.062 --> 0:58:36.942 producer of No Filter is Kimberly Bradish, with sound production 0:58:37.302 --> 0:58:40.782 by Madeline Juannu. I'm mea Friedman and thank you for 0:58:40.902 --> 0:58:41.862 having me in your years. 0:58:45.942 --> 0:58:48.142 If you're looking for something else to listen to, like 0:58:48.262 --> 0:58:50.902 and follow all of our Mamma Mia podcasts, which are 0:58:50.942 --> 0:58:54.182 currently bringing you Hot Pod Summer one hundred hours of 0:58:54.222 --> 0:58:58.942 summer listens, from spicy conversations to incredible stories, fashion, beauty 0:58:59.142 --> 0:58:59.742 and more.