1 00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:13,334 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mumma Mea podcast. 2 00:00:14,134 --> 00:00:17,214 Speaker 2: Mumma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:17,254 --> 00:00:18,934 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:21,814 --> 00:00:22,014 Speaker 3: Hi. 5 00:00:22,134 --> 00:00:25,374 Speaker 2: I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma MEA's twice daily news podcast, 6 00:00:25,414 --> 00:00:28,774 Speaker 2: The Quickie. If you knew that you had six months 7 00:00:28,814 --> 00:00:31,374 Speaker 2: or less to live, and the chances were your final 8 00:00:31,414 --> 00:00:33,934 Speaker 2: time on this earth would be painful, would you want 9 00:00:33,934 --> 00:00:36,534 Speaker 2: your healthcare professional to let you know that along with 10 00:00:36,574 --> 00:00:39,694 Speaker 2: pain relief and other treatments that aside from palliative care, 11 00:00:40,014 --> 00:00:42,534 Speaker 2: there is another option, the choice to end your life 12 00:00:42,694 --> 00:00:45,974 Speaker 2: your way. Voluntary assisted dying is now legal in all 13 00:00:46,014 --> 00:00:48,974 Speaker 2: states in one territory but the one place that where 14 00:00:48,974 --> 00:00:52,134 Speaker 2: the trailblazers in this discussion are now the last place 15 00:00:52,174 --> 00:00:55,094 Speaker 2: in Australia not giving their residents the option, and in 16 00:00:55,094 --> 00:00:57,654 Speaker 2: some places where it is legal, your doctor can't even 17 00:00:57,694 --> 00:01:00,534 Speaker 2: talk to you about it. Today, we speak to people 18 00:01:00,574 --> 00:01:03,534 Speaker 2: who've supported their loved ones through their final moments and 19 00:01:03,574 --> 00:01:05,734 Speaker 2: find out where the ant is lagging when they were 20 00:01:05,734 --> 00:01:09,334 Speaker 2: once the leaders in voluntary assisted dying lords. But First 21 00:01:09,694 --> 00:01:12,214 Speaker 2: is the latest from The Quickie Newsroom. Thursday November twenty eight, 22 00:01:12,734 --> 00:01:15,574 Speaker 2: The Senate is expected to pass the legislation to ban 23 00:01:15,734 --> 00:01:19,254 Speaker 2: kids under sixteen from accessing social media today, with some 24 00:01:19,334 --> 00:01:22,254 Speaker 2: concerned it was rushed through Parliament and may have impacts 25 00:01:22,254 --> 00:01:25,094 Speaker 2: that haven't yet been considered. The laws will ban anyone 26 00:01:25,174 --> 00:01:28,894 Speaker 2: under sixteen from having accounts on platforms such as Facebook, Instagram, 27 00:01:28,934 --> 00:01:31,734 Speaker 2: TikTok and others, and if it does pass, which seems 28 00:01:31,814 --> 00:01:35,574 Speaker 2: likely with bipartisan support, Australia will become the first country 29 00:01:35,574 --> 00:01:38,254 Speaker 2: in the world to implement such a ban. The inquiry 30 00:01:38,254 --> 00:01:40,894 Speaker 2: into the laws ran for just three hours, with people 31 00:01:40,894 --> 00:01:43,494 Speaker 2: given just one day to hand in submissions. There is 32 00:01:43,534 --> 00:01:46,374 Speaker 2: also criticism that there was no consultation with the young 33 00:01:46,414 --> 00:01:49,014 Speaker 2: people that this will impact. The ban would come in 34 00:01:49,054 --> 00:01:51,974 Speaker 2: one year after the legislation is passed, with trials of 35 00:01:52,014 --> 00:01:55,814 Speaker 2: age verification technology still being carried out by the federal government. 36 00:01:56,294 --> 00:01:59,774 Speaker 2: Independent Senator Lydia Thorpe has been suspended from Parliament after 37 00:01:59,854 --> 00:02:02,854 Speaker 2: she tore up a document and threw it at Pauline Hanson. 38 00:02:03,294 --> 00:02:05,894 Speaker 2: As Parliament works for the final few sitting days before 39 00:02:05,894 --> 00:02:08,734 Speaker 2: the end of the year, One Nation Leader Pauline Hanson 40 00:02:08,854 --> 00:02:12,814 Speaker 2: attempted to former Labour senator Fatima payment to a parliamentary 41 00:02:12,814 --> 00:02:17,534 Speaker 2: Committee over her Dual Afghan Australian citizenship, questioning her ability 42 00:02:17,574 --> 00:02:20,294 Speaker 2: to sit in the Upper House. Senator thought back Senator 43 00:02:20,334 --> 00:02:24,094 Speaker 2: Payment yelling at Hansen, convicted racist, before tearing up the 44 00:02:24,134 --> 00:02:27,374 Speaker 2: paper and throwing it. Senator Payment has made attempts to 45 00:02:27,374 --> 00:02:30,494 Speaker 2: renounce her Afghan's citizenship, but has been unable to do 46 00:02:30,614 --> 00:02:34,014 Speaker 2: so due to the Taliban's takeover. The judge presiding over 47 00:02:34,054 --> 00:02:37,494 Speaker 2: the manslaughter conviction of the police officer who tasered ninety 48 00:02:37,494 --> 00:02:40,174 Speaker 2: five year old Claire Noland is still deciding what to 49 00:02:40,214 --> 00:02:43,854 Speaker 2: do with him. Crown prosecutors immediately made an application to 50 00:02:43,974 --> 00:02:47,694 Speaker 2: detain Senior Constable Christian White in custody, but Justice Ian 51 00:02:47,734 --> 00:02:50,934 Speaker 2: Harrison postponed the hearing to today, saying he would need 52 00:02:50,974 --> 00:02:53,614 Speaker 2: evidence about the conditions the thirty four year old will 53 00:02:53,654 --> 00:02:57,174 Speaker 2: be facing in prison. Officers typically housed away from other 54 00:02:57,214 --> 00:03:00,574 Speaker 2: inmates for fear they'll become a target. White's barrister said 55 00:03:00,574 --> 00:03:03,574 Speaker 2: a jail sentence was not inevitable, with a range of 56 00:03:03,574 --> 00:03:07,494 Speaker 2: punishments available for manslaughter. The maximum jail Termer Carreys is 57 00:03:07,574 --> 00:03:11,934 Speaker 2: twenty five years. Between Israel and Hesbola has held in 58 00:03:11,974 --> 00:03:15,094 Speaker 2: its first few hours after both sides accepted an agreement 59 00:03:15,174 --> 00:03:18,654 Speaker 2: broken by the US and France. Lebanon's army has been 60 00:03:18,694 --> 00:03:22,054 Speaker 2: tasked with ensuring the ceasefire, lasts deploying to the south 61 00:03:22,094 --> 00:03:24,174 Speaker 2: of the country, which has been under heavy fire from 62 00:03:24,254 --> 00:03:28,134 Speaker 2: Israeli air strikes, and areas where known Hesbela strongholds exist 63 00:03:28,174 --> 00:03:31,294 Speaker 2: in the east and southern suburbs of Beirut. While many 64 00:03:31,294 --> 00:03:34,534 Speaker 2: displaced people have now been able to return home, Lebanese 65 00:03:34,574 --> 00:03:38,214 Speaker 2: authorities have asked for border residents to not return until 66 00:03:38,254 --> 00:03:42,654 Speaker 2: the Israeli military, who pushed about six kilometers into Lebanon withdraws. 67 00:03:42,734 --> 00:03:44,054 Speaker 2: That's what's happening in the world today. 68 00:03:44,094 --> 00:03:44,334 Speaker 3: Next. 69 00:03:44,414 --> 00:03:47,814 Speaker 2: Voluntary assisted dying is still a contentious issue for governments 70 00:03:47,814 --> 00:03:51,054 Speaker 2: around Australia, and while many have passed the laws, it 71 00:03:51,174 --> 00:03:54,054 Speaker 2: was no easy feat and revisiting them to change things 72 00:03:54,054 --> 00:03:56,334 Speaker 2: that were put in place back then might just be 73 00:03:56,414 --> 00:04:09,014 Speaker 2: a little too hard. Lauren Pink's dad was a larger 74 00:04:09,054 --> 00:04:09,494 Speaker 2: than life man. 75 00:04:10,094 --> 00:04:12,734 Speaker 4: He was the best dad. And I know everybody says 76 00:04:12,774 --> 00:04:16,454 Speaker 4: that about their dad, but he was just such a 77 00:04:16,494 --> 00:04:19,734 Speaker 4: beautiful man who just gave us such an incredible life. 78 00:04:19,974 --> 00:04:23,134 Speaker 4: Dad was always very adamant that he never wanted to 79 00:04:23,174 --> 00:04:26,294 Speaker 4: die in hospital. He was always really scared of hospitals, 80 00:04:26,334 --> 00:04:30,414 Speaker 4: like pathological fear of them, like wouldn't visit newborn's nothing, 81 00:04:30,574 --> 00:04:33,934 Speaker 4: hated it all, and he'd always spoken about wanting to 82 00:04:33,974 --> 00:04:35,734 Speaker 4: die on his own terms. But to be honest, we 83 00:04:35,814 --> 00:04:38,854 Speaker 4: never even knew it existed until he got palliative care. 84 00:04:39,814 --> 00:04:42,254 Speaker 2: A fan of riding motorbikes and popping a bottle of 85 00:04:42,334 --> 00:04:45,094 Speaker 2: mulge on a special occasion, Laurence says he was a 86 00:04:45,094 --> 00:04:47,854 Speaker 2: fit and healthy guy until about seven years ago when 87 00:04:47,854 --> 00:04:50,014 Speaker 2: he was diagnosed with cancer for the first time. 88 00:04:50,374 --> 00:04:54,414 Speaker 4: Got through treatment, had gone into remission, and all accounts, 89 00:04:54,574 --> 00:04:58,014 Speaker 4: was well and healthy for about another five years, and 90 00:04:58,054 --> 00:05:00,054 Speaker 4: then he started to get sick again. And this was 91 00:05:00,094 --> 00:05:04,054 Speaker 4: actually presenting as a tumor in his neck was inoperable, 92 00:05:04,614 --> 00:05:07,174 Speaker 4: had arteries wrapped around it, and it was actually pressing 93 00:05:07,214 --> 00:05:10,334 Speaker 4: on nerves and causing him an extreme amount of which 94 00:05:10,374 --> 00:05:12,614 Speaker 4: was really difficult to get under control. 95 00:05:13,294 --> 00:05:15,574 Speaker 2: She says. He did all the treatments available to him, 96 00:05:15,574 --> 00:05:19,574 Speaker 2: including radiation, therapy and immunotherapy, but the toilet took on 97 00:05:19,614 --> 00:05:23,214 Speaker 2: his body was intense and neither produced any significant results. 98 00:05:23,614 --> 00:05:27,334 Speaker 2: His condition deteriorated and the pain got progressively worse. So 99 00:05:27,374 --> 00:05:30,174 Speaker 2: her dad ended up in a palliative care unit, the 100 00:05:30,294 --> 00:05:31,414 Speaker 2: last place he wanted to be. 101 00:05:32,854 --> 00:05:37,574 Speaker 4: Dad in palliative care his absolute worst nightmare, deteriorating every day, 102 00:05:37,934 --> 00:05:39,854 Speaker 4: not able to eat, not able to get his pain 103 00:05:39,934 --> 00:05:42,854 Speaker 4: under control, thinking that he was basically just going to 104 00:05:42,854 --> 00:05:46,054 Speaker 4: see his days out in a palliative care ward, waiting 105 00:05:46,054 --> 00:05:48,014 Speaker 4: for his organs to shut down and die. 106 00:05:48,574 --> 00:05:52,454 Speaker 2: Lauren says, at no stage was voluntary assisted dying even 107 00:05:52,654 --> 00:05:55,534 Speaker 2: mentioned to her dad. He lived in Western Australia, where 108 00:05:55,534 --> 00:05:58,454 Speaker 2: there are no amendments to safeguards in the legislation to 109 00:05:58,614 --> 00:06:01,014 Speaker 2: stop any healthcare practitioners from discussing it. 110 00:06:01,254 --> 00:06:03,814 Speaker 4: The dad had been working with an oncologist, he'd been 111 00:06:03,854 --> 00:06:06,654 Speaker 4: working with the pain specialist, he'd presented to the er 112 00:06:07,094 --> 00:06:10,654 Speaker 4: at hospital numerous times trying to get his pain under control, 113 00:06:11,214 --> 00:06:15,374 Speaker 4: and it was never ever presented as an option, not 114 00:06:15,454 --> 00:06:18,854 Speaker 4: as the option, but as an option for consideration. It 115 00:06:18,894 --> 00:06:21,214 Speaker 4: was only when Dad was in palliative care that someone 116 00:06:21,254 --> 00:06:23,534 Speaker 4: that we knew took a societe and said, have you 117 00:06:23,574 --> 00:06:27,414 Speaker 4: guys heard of voluntary assisted dying? And we hadn't, And 118 00:06:27,454 --> 00:06:30,254 Speaker 4: at that point that's when everything changed for him. 119 00:06:30,894 --> 00:06:34,534 Speaker 2: Voluntary assisted dying laws were actually first passed in Australia. 120 00:06:34,614 --> 00:06:38,614 Speaker 2: On May twenty five, nineteen ninety five, the Northern Territory 121 00:06:38,654 --> 00:06:41,534 Speaker 2: Government passed the Rights of the Terminally Ill Act fifteen 122 00:06:41,614 --> 00:06:45,214 Speaker 2: votes to ten. The Act legalized euthanasia as it was 123 00:06:45,254 --> 00:06:47,694 Speaker 2: called back then, with many of the safeguards in places 124 00:06:47,774 --> 00:06:50,294 Speaker 2: laws do today, like the terminally ill person having to 125 00:06:50,294 --> 00:06:53,734 Speaker 2: be over eighteen. The request supported by multiple doctors. Those 126 00:06:53,774 --> 00:06:56,654 Speaker 2: who assisted in ending a terminally ill person's life were 127 00:06:56,654 --> 00:07:00,174 Speaker 2: immune from prosecution or other legal consequences if they acted 128 00:07:00,174 --> 00:07:03,614 Speaker 2: in good faith. More than a year later, a repeal 129 00:07:03,734 --> 00:07:05,574 Speaker 2: bill for that Act was put in front of the 130 00:07:05,574 --> 00:07:08,934 Speaker 2: Northern Territory Parliament, but it was defeated fourteen votes to eleven. 131 00:07:09,694 --> 00:07:12,614 Speaker 2: The law was then voided by the Federal Euthanasia Act 132 00:07:12,734 --> 00:07:15,774 Speaker 2: Laws of nineteen ninety seven under the Howard government. Now 133 00:07:15,774 --> 00:07:18,654 Speaker 2: this law prevented parliaments of territories such as the Ant 134 00:07:18,894 --> 00:07:23,894 Speaker 2: The Act and Norfolk Island from legalizing euthanasia. Just three 135 00:07:23,974 --> 00:07:27,094 Speaker 2: people were able to access the anti legislation before it 136 00:07:27,134 --> 00:07:29,974 Speaker 2: was overturned by the federal government. Sixty six year old 137 00:07:30,014 --> 00:07:33,054 Speaker 2: carpenter Bob Dent was the first person in Australia to 138 00:07:33,134 --> 00:07:36,254 Speaker 2: access it. Choosing to end his life on September twenty two, 139 00:07:36,414 --> 00:07:39,494 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six, after what he described as a roller 140 00:07:39,534 --> 00:07:42,614 Speaker 2: coaster of pain suffering through prostate cancer for five years. 141 00:07:43,494 --> 00:07:45,934 Speaker 2: He left an open letter when he died, saying, if 142 00:07:45,974 --> 00:07:50,254 Speaker 2: you disagree with voluntary euthanasia, then don't use it, but 143 00:07:50,374 --> 00:07:53,494 Speaker 2: don't deny me the right to use it. It would 144 00:07:53,534 --> 00:07:56,494 Speaker 2: be more than twenty years before Australians would again have 145 00:07:56,534 --> 00:08:03,614 Speaker 2: access to voluntary assisted dying when California and Brittany Maynard 146 00:08:03,654 --> 00:08:06,414 Speaker 2: was diagnosed with an aggressive brain tumor. The twenty nine 147 00:08:06,494 --> 00:08:08,454 Speaker 2: year old, knowing her time on this earth was short, 148 00:08:08,614 --> 00:08:10,694 Speaker 2: but that the state she lived in didn't give her 149 00:08:10,734 --> 00:08:14,014 Speaker 2: access to voluntary assist dying, moved her life to somewhere 150 00:08:14,014 --> 00:08:14,414 Speaker 2: that did. 151 00:08:14,734 --> 00:08:17,294 Speaker 1: I am heartbroken that I had to leave behind my home, 152 00:08:17,614 --> 00:08:20,974 Speaker 1: my community, and my friends in California. But I am 153 00:08:21,134 --> 00:08:24,934 Speaker 1: dying and I refuse to lose my dignity. I refuse 154 00:08:25,014 --> 00:08:29,734 Speaker 1: to subject myself and my family to purposeless, prolonged pin 155 00:08:29,814 --> 00:08:32,374 Speaker 1: and suffering at the hands of an incurable disease. 156 00:08:33,254 --> 00:08:35,934 Speaker 2: Brittany then chose in her final months to work as 157 00:08:35,974 --> 00:08:38,734 Speaker 2: an advocate for others who find themselves in the same situation, 158 00:08:39,134 --> 00:08:41,534 Speaker 2: saying pallid of care was not the end she wanted 159 00:08:41,534 --> 00:08:44,614 Speaker 2: for herself. When we spoke to Britney's husband, Dan, who's 160 00:08:44,654 --> 00:08:47,134 Speaker 2: been working as an advocate himself a voluntary assist dying 161 00:08:47,174 --> 00:08:49,894 Speaker 2: since his wife's death, he said that yes, going through 162 00:08:49,934 --> 00:08:52,694 Speaker 2: the process of securing permission for her to access VIAD 163 00:08:52,974 --> 00:08:56,094 Speaker 2: was a lot, but forcing people away from their support 164 00:08:56,134 --> 00:08:58,414 Speaker 2: networks to access it was way worse. 165 00:08:59,014 --> 00:09:01,134 Speaker 5: The worst part was the fact that we had to 166 00:09:01,214 --> 00:09:04,334 Speaker 5: leave our home. I mean, imagine what I referred to 167 00:09:04,334 --> 00:09:08,094 Speaker 5: as the odyssey that the cancer just thrust upon you 168 00:09:08,174 --> 00:09:11,414 Speaker 5: as a patient. But on top of that, imagine we 169 00:09:11,534 --> 00:09:13,894 Speaker 5: packed up half of our home in California into a 170 00:09:13,934 --> 00:09:16,494 Speaker 5: moving truck. She had to find a new medical team 171 00:09:16,534 --> 00:09:18,454 Speaker 5: in Portland, Oregon. We had to say goodbye to our 172 00:09:18,494 --> 00:09:21,374 Speaker 5: friends and family. She found a house for us to rent, 173 00:09:21,774 --> 00:09:25,134 Speaker 5: and then we drive twelve hours to this new home 174 00:09:25,214 --> 00:09:28,574 Speaker 5: that where we're going to live while we're seeking all 175 00:09:28,574 --> 00:09:32,614 Speaker 5: these medical treatments for her. So that was the difficult part. 176 00:09:32,814 --> 00:09:35,374 Speaker 5: That was the part that as far as the time 177 00:09:35,414 --> 00:09:37,774 Speaker 5: that was stolen from us, and Brittany and I would 178 00:09:37,774 --> 00:09:40,254 Speaker 5: talk about that, that's the time we wanted back I 179 00:09:40,254 --> 00:09:43,694 Speaker 5: mean dealing with the disease. Okay, that's the new reality 180 00:09:43,734 --> 00:09:45,774 Speaker 5: that we had to face. But having to jump through 181 00:09:45,814 --> 00:09:48,814 Speaker 5: those hoops was the ridiculous part, and I think that 182 00:09:48,974 --> 00:09:52,294 Speaker 5: is why Britney's story resonated like it did. 183 00:09:53,054 --> 00:09:55,974 Speaker 2: Three months after Brittany recorded that video, her quality of 184 00:09:56,014 --> 00:09:58,854 Speaker 2: life declined rapidly. Dan says she was scared that it 185 00:09:58,894 --> 00:10:01,334 Speaker 2: would get so bad she wouldn't be able to administer 186 00:10:01,374 --> 00:10:03,454 Speaker 2: the medicine that she had been granted to end her 187 00:10:03,494 --> 00:10:04,854 Speaker 2: life on her terms. 188 00:10:05,174 --> 00:10:09,214 Speaker 5: Pain that not even morphine could alleviate, the inability to 189 00:10:09,254 --> 00:10:12,014 Speaker 5: slip for days on end, the knowledge of the vomiting. 190 00:10:12,054 --> 00:10:15,814 Speaker 5: That seizures are what terrified her the most, and those 191 00:10:15,814 --> 00:10:19,454 Speaker 5: are only getting more severe and more frequent. When she 192 00:10:19,494 --> 00:10:23,134 Speaker 5: would have a seizure, typically she'd be unable to communicate 193 00:10:23,174 --> 00:10:26,614 Speaker 5: for thirty minutes. The wiring and her speech center in 194 00:10:26,654 --> 00:10:29,094 Speaker 5: her brain. She couldn't form a complete sentence and that 195 00:10:29,894 --> 00:10:33,374 Speaker 5: terrified her. On three occasions she had Grandma seizures, and 196 00:10:33,414 --> 00:10:35,734 Speaker 5: after that, I mean she would just be exhausted. One 197 00:10:35,734 --> 00:10:38,734 Speaker 5: of those included a trip to the emergency room. Those 198 00:10:38,814 --> 00:10:42,654 Speaker 5: videos were made quite a bit before we approached the 199 00:10:42,774 --> 00:10:46,934 Speaker 5: final weeks and months of her life when the symptoms 200 00:10:46,934 --> 00:10:49,334 Speaker 5: that she was dealing with things were getting pretty horrific. 201 00:10:49,854 --> 00:10:53,254 Speaker 5: We were able to celebrate our wedding anniversary and my birthday. 202 00:10:53,574 --> 00:10:56,334 Speaker 5: But on November first, that morning even where you take 203 00:10:56,374 --> 00:10:59,294 Speaker 5: the dogs out for a little walk, but she was struggling. 204 00:10:59,374 --> 00:11:02,414 Speaker 5: She had a seizure that morning, and she says, you know, 205 00:11:02,774 --> 00:11:07,014 Speaker 5: it's my time. I would prefer to pass away now 206 00:11:07,254 --> 00:11:12,614 Speaker 5: where she still is herself, pass away gently instead of 207 00:11:12,734 --> 00:11:15,734 Speaker 5: pick a number. Does she end up living another two weeks? 208 00:11:15,774 --> 00:11:18,454 Speaker 5: Maybe she was cognizant of that, but she was saying 209 00:11:18,494 --> 00:11:21,334 Speaker 5: that I'm only going to be suffering during these next 210 00:11:21,334 --> 00:11:23,934 Speaker 5: two weeks because what she's risking as the tumor goes 211 00:11:23,974 --> 00:11:26,974 Speaker 5: and puts pressure on different parts of the brain, specifically 212 00:11:27,014 --> 00:11:29,814 Speaker 5: the optic nerve, that she loses her eyesight, so now 213 00:11:29,814 --> 00:11:33,054 Speaker 5: she's blind. If she suffers a stroke at that point, 214 00:11:33,054 --> 00:11:36,894 Speaker 5: she loses potentially the ability to communicate altogether. She's paralyzed 215 00:11:36,894 --> 00:11:39,934 Speaker 5: in either half of her body or entirely, and then 216 00:11:40,254 --> 00:11:43,214 Speaker 5: she would be unable to the strongest safeguard she has 217 00:11:43,254 --> 00:11:46,054 Speaker 5: to be able to consume that medication on her own. 218 00:11:46,374 --> 00:11:49,094 Speaker 5: So different than other jurisdictions, it's not something that is 219 00:11:49,214 --> 00:11:53,614 Speaker 5: administered through an IV or anything. The terminally patient in 220 00:11:53,654 --> 00:11:56,134 Speaker 5: her case was a sleeping medication, but she has to 221 00:11:56,174 --> 00:11:58,774 Speaker 5: be able to consume that, and if she suffers a 222 00:11:58,774 --> 00:12:02,294 Speaker 5: stroke or if she's incapacitated, then she would be stuck 223 00:12:03,414 --> 00:12:07,094 Speaker 5: basically trapped in her own body, suffering mass in bed 224 00:12:07,134 --> 00:12:10,054 Speaker 5: with tubes coming out of her. She would be forced 225 00:12:10,054 --> 00:12:13,094 Speaker 5: to die the exact way that she was trying to avoid. 226 00:12:13,334 --> 00:12:17,374 Speaker 5: So for Brittany on that day, within five minutes of 227 00:12:17,454 --> 00:12:22,054 Speaker 5: taking that medication, she fell asleep very peacefully, and within 228 00:12:22,214 --> 00:12:25,974 Speaker 5: thirty minutes her breathing slow to the point where she 229 00:12:26,014 --> 00:12:26,614 Speaker 5: passed away. 230 00:12:27,894 --> 00:12:31,174 Speaker 2: Now, something Brittany said in her recorded videos before her 231 00:12:31,214 --> 00:12:33,694 Speaker 2: passing also resonated with Laurence dud. 232 00:12:34,254 --> 00:12:36,974 Speaker 1: I cannot change the fact that I am dying. But 233 00:12:37,054 --> 00:12:40,014 Speaker 1: I am living my final days to the fullest, spending 234 00:12:40,054 --> 00:12:45,134 Speaker 1: time with family, friends and in the great outdoors, and 235 00:12:45,214 --> 00:12:49,854 Speaker 1: I am preparing to experience the best possible death. Achieving 236 00:12:49,934 --> 00:12:53,014 Speaker 1: some control over my passing is very important to me. 237 00:12:53,974 --> 00:12:57,734 Speaker 1: Knowing that I can leave this life with dignity allows 238 00:12:57,734 --> 00:13:01,894 Speaker 1: me to focus on living. It has provided me enormous 239 00:13:01,934 --> 00:13:02,654 Speaker 1: peace of mind. 240 00:13:03,694 --> 00:13:07,574 Speaker 2: Not everyone who is granted access to voluntary assisted dying drugs, 241 00:13:07,694 --> 00:13:10,894 Speaker 2: actually use them. There's no pressure two ones that's been approved. 242 00:13:11,254 --> 00:13:13,534 Speaker 2: Lauren saying, though it would have helped her dad so 243 00:13:13,694 --> 00:13:15,574 Speaker 2: much more had it been offered to him. 244 00:13:15,414 --> 00:13:18,254 Speaker 4: Earlier, I don't think he would have chosen to pass 245 00:13:18,334 --> 00:13:21,254 Speaker 4: any earlier. I think he would have definitely wanted to 246 00:13:21,294 --> 00:13:23,694 Speaker 4: explore all of his treatment options to see if there 247 00:13:23,734 --> 00:13:28,214 Speaker 4: was anything that he could do. But if he and 248 00:13:28,254 --> 00:13:32,694 Speaker 4: we had known about it earlier in that journey, even 249 00:13:32,694 --> 00:13:34,374 Speaker 4: to the point, because you can go through and get 250 00:13:34,414 --> 00:13:38,134 Speaker 4: approved prior to actually needing it, like Dad was, right 251 00:13:38,174 --> 00:13:41,294 Speaker 4: at the tail end of his life, I think that 252 00:13:41,454 --> 00:13:44,534 Speaker 4: just would have given him some hope that didn't otherwise exist, 253 00:13:45,134 --> 00:13:47,494 Speaker 4: and that little bit of extra energy and push to 254 00:13:47,534 --> 00:13:51,694 Speaker 4: be able to go through these quite harsh treatments, knowing 255 00:13:51,734 --> 00:13:54,174 Speaker 4: that if it didn't work, there was still a plan B, 256 00:13:54,374 --> 00:13:57,614 Speaker 4: there was still another option there. So the fact that 257 00:13:58,294 --> 00:14:01,134 Speaker 4: no one had mentioned it as part of his care 258 00:14:01,214 --> 00:14:06,614 Speaker 4: program I do find quite infuriating, because really it should 259 00:14:06,614 --> 00:14:09,854 Speaker 4: have just been presented. You have pay management, you have 260 00:14:09,894 --> 00:14:14,014 Speaker 4: palliative care, you have bad even if the practitioner doesn't 261 00:14:14,054 --> 00:14:15,974 Speaker 4: choose to want to be involved in bad it would 262 00:14:16,014 --> 00:14:18,134 Speaker 4: have given us something to go and find someone who 263 00:14:18,254 --> 00:14:21,574 Speaker 4: did and it would have changed everything for him. 264 00:14:21,974 --> 00:14:23,694 Speaker 2: But while Laurens dad was in a state that would 265 00:14:23,694 --> 00:14:26,454 Speaker 2: have allowed health practitioners to discuss that option with him, 266 00:14:26,734 --> 00:14:29,774 Speaker 2: there are barriers in other states. For example, in Victoria 267 00:14:29,814 --> 00:14:32,814 Speaker 2: and South Australia, part of the process of getting voluntary 268 00:14:32,814 --> 00:14:36,894 Speaker 2: assisted dying through parliament required some amendments and extra safeguards 269 00:14:36,894 --> 00:14:39,894 Speaker 2: put in place so that say a doctor couldn't coerci 270 00:14:39,934 --> 00:14:43,534 Speaker 2: pation into choosing VAD. So in those states, your doctor 271 00:14:43,734 --> 00:14:46,734 Speaker 2: cannot mention it to you as an option. You need 272 00:14:46,774 --> 00:14:48,414 Speaker 2: to go to them and make it clear that that 273 00:14:48,654 --> 00:14:52,214 Speaker 2: is what you want. In Victoria, also, if your practitioner 274 00:14:52,334 --> 00:14:55,694 Speaker 2: is a conscientious objector to voluntary assisted dying, they're not 275 00:14:55,734 --> 00:14:58,454 Speaker 2: required to help you any further by recommending someone who 276 00:14:58,494 --> 00:15:01,174 Speaker 2: will speak to you about it or provide any further 277 00:15:01,214 --> 00:15:05,094 Speaker 2: information about the process. In some places, you also cannot 278 00:15:05,134 --> 00:15:08,174 Speaker 2: access the information via telehealth, which makes it harder for 279 00:15:08,174 --> 00:15:12,614 Speaker 2: Australians living in regional remote areas of the country. Doctor Lindiswan, 280 00:15:12,814 --> 00:15:15,694 Speaker 2: the CEO of Go Gentle Australia, says there has been 281 00:15:15,734 --> 00:15:18,534 Speaker 2: no evidence that these safeguards are actually needed. 282 00:15:19,054 --> 00:15:21,734 Speaker 3: So one thing I'd just like to emphasize this. Although 283 00:15:21,774 --> 00:15:25,934 Speaker 3: the state laws are a bit different, essentially, they're very similar. 284 00:15:26,334 --> 00:15:29,854 Speaker 3: Sometimes people get concerned about the complexity of voluntary sis 285 00:15:29,894 --> 00:15:33,494 Speaker 3: to dying, but the key message is it's only for 286 00:15:33,614 --> 00:15:37,694 Speaker 3: people who have a terminials. They're dying, and they have 287 00:15:37,814 --> 00:15:41,854 Speaker 3: to be suffering intolerably, and they need to be approaching 288 00:15:41,854 --> 00:15:44,454 Speaker 3: the end of life, and they have to demonstrate that 289 00:15:44,494 --> 00:15:48,334 Speaker 3: they have capacity, and there have to be independent doctors 290 00:15:48,334 --> 00:15:50,894 Speaker 3: who verify that this is their choice and they're not 291 00:15:50,934 --> 00:15:54,254 Speaker 3: being coerced. So that's true in all the states, but 292 00:15:54,334 --> 00:15:58,174 Speaker 3: you can already tell that's a pretty comprehensive list of 293 00:15:58,214 --> 00:16:02,414 Speaker 3: safeguards in itself. Victoria, which was the first state to 294 00:16:02,774 --> 00:16:05,734 Speaker 3: debate voluntary cist dying, had the most intense debate, and 295 00:16:05,774 --> 00:16:07,774 Speaker 3: in order to get it passed in the parliament, there 296 00:16:07,774 --> 00:16:11,374 Speaker 3: were quite a few extra safeguards put in place, one 297 00:16:11,414 --> 00:16:14,054 Speaker 3: of which is that doctors aren't allowed to raise the 298 00:16:14,094 --> 00:16:17,174 Speaker 3: topic of voluntary sister dying. Now, the intent of this, 299 00:16:17,214 --> 00:16:19,694 Speaker 3: I think was to make sure that there was never 300 00:16:20,174 --> 00:16:23,094 Speaker 3: a case where the doctor would coerce a person into 301 00:16:23,294 --> 00:16:26,854 Speaker 3: accepting voluntary sister a dying. But we have not seen 302 00:16:26,894 --> 00:16:30,334 Speaker 3: that to happen in a single case. In Australia. It's 303 00:16:30,334 --> 00:16:33,014 Speaker 3: been running. Voluntarist dying has been running across Australia now 304 00:16:33,054 --> 00:16:36,294 Speaker 3: for over five years. We've seen more than five thousand 305 00:16:36,294 --> 00:16:39,814 Speaker 3: applications and there has not been a single case of 306 00:16:39,934 --> 00:16:43,534 Speaker 3: any evidence of people being coerced into voluntary sister dying. 307 00:16:44,054 --> 00:16:46,214 Speaker 3: So in the fullness of time, when you look at 308 00:16:46,254 --> 00:16:49,254 Speaker 3: the evidence, it now looks like this safeguard in Victoria 309 00:16:49,534 --> 00:16:52,854 Speaker 3: was unnecessary. And what it really means is that if 310 00:16:52,854 --> 00:16:55,574 Speaker 3: a person speaks to their doctor in Victoria and says 311 00:16:55,734 --> 00:16:57,974 Speaker 3: I'm at the end of my life, I'm suffering intolerably, 312 00:16:58,054 --> 00:17:01,454 Speaker 3: what are my options, the doctor can't actually raise voluntary 313 00:17:01,534 --> 00:17:03,414 Speaker 3: sister dying. I can talk about everything else, they can't 314 00:17:03,414 --> 00:17:06,774 Speaker 3: talk about voluntary sister dying. So in the world of 315 00:17:06,854 --> 00:17:11,254 Speaker 3: clinical care, that is not good care. It's not good 316 00:17:11,414 --> 00:17:14,934 Speaker 3: if you're not transparent about a person's choices. So we're 317 00:17:15,014 --> 00:17:18,534 Speaker 3: really campaigning quite hard to say this is unnecessary safeguard. 318 00:17:18,854 --> 00:17:21,054 Speaker 3: It actually interferes with good clinical care. 319 00:17:21,814 --> 00:17:25,174 Speaker 2: Seeing how difficult it was for some of these states 320 00:17:25,174 --> 00:17:27,934 Speaker 2: and territories to get these voluntary assistant din laws over 321 00:17:27,934 --> 00:17:30,694 Speaker 2: the line, what are the chances they'll revisit them and 322 00:17:31,254 --> 00:17:33,454 Speaker 2: change some of those differences. 323 00:17:34,174 --> 00:17:37,854 Speaker 3: It will happen over time. But what we're hearing from 324 00:17:38,174 --> 00:17:42,174 Speaker 3: the state and territory governments is that it was very 325 00:17:42,774 --> 00:17:46,054 Speaker 3: hard fought and difficult debate to get the laws passed 326 00:17:46,094 --> 00:17:48,814 Speaker 3: in the first place, and there's a reluctance to go 327 00:17:48,934 --> 00:17:53,494 Speaker 3: back and relitigate the debate, even in Victoria where it's 328 00:17:53,534 --> 00:17:56,454 Speaker 3: been five years running and there's very good evidence that 329 00:17:56,454 --> 00:17:59,454 Speaker 3: that laws are operating well, but there are places where 330 00:17:59,494 --> 00:18:02,494 Speaker 3: the laws can be improved. We don't believe that there's 331 00:18:02,534 --> 00:18:04,774 Speaker 3: going to be a major change in the near future, 332 00:18:05,374 --> 00:18:08,534 Speaker 3: and that's a shame because in healthcare, that's what good 333 00:18:08,654 --> 00:18:12,094 Speaker 3: quality care is. You put in place in new health service. 334 00:18:12,214 --> 00:18:14,174 Speaker 3: You never expect that when you put in place of 335 00:18:14,254 --> 00:18:16,014 Speaker 3: health service that you've got it right the first time, 336 00:18:16,054 --> 00:18:18,494 Speaker 3: and you'd never make any changes ever again. Of course, 337 00:18:18,534 --> 00:18:21,374 Speaker 3: you listen and watch and see what's working and what isn't, 338 00:18:21,374 --> 00:18:24,494 Speaker 3: and you improve the service over time. So that's really 339 00:18:24,534 --> 00:18:26,614 Speaker 3: where we want to move with Voluntary Assists of Dying, 340 00:18:26,614 --> 00:18:29,654 Speaker 3: to treating it like any other health service, where absolutely 341 00:18:30,014 --> 00:18:33,254 Speaker 3: there's a focus on delivering the best quality care but 342 00:18:33,334 --> 00:18:35,894 Speaker 3: there's also a focus on improving that care over time. 343 00:18:38,214 --> 00:18:41,014 Speaker 2: There have been cases where the voluntary assisted dying laws 344 00:18:41,214 --> 00:18:44,894 Speaker 2: have overlooked some aspects of the process. In Queensland, for example, 345 00:18:44,974 --> 00:18:47,294 Speaker 2: last year, an inquest into the death of a man 346 00:18:47,414 --> 00:18:50,734 Speaker 2: known only as ABC found the system didn't have enough 347 00:18:50,734 --> 00:18:53,934 Speaker 2: safeguards in place for the return of VAD drugs when 348 00:18:53,934 --> 00:18:57,574 Speaker 2: they were no longer needed. The substance in ABC's death 349 00:18:57,774 --> 00:19:01,214 Speaker 2: was legally obtained, but the law states a nominated person 350 00:19:01,454 --> 00:19:05,334 Speaker 2: must return any unused or leftover portions of those drugs 351 00:19:05,334 --> 00:19:08,814 Speaker 2: within fourteen days. ABC did not return the drugs as 352 00:19:08,814 --> 00:19:10,774 Speaker 2: he was unable to leave his home and there was 353 00:19:10,814 --> 00:19:13,494 Speaker 2: no arrangement made for someone to pick them up. His 354 00:19:13,574 --> 00:19:15,774 Speaker 2: daughter found him asleep in his chair after returning for 355 00:19:15,814 --> 00:19:18,094 Speaker 2: a run. She realized when she went to hug him 356 00:19:18,334 --> 00:19:20,974 Speaker 2: that he was cold. He'd taken the drug that he 357 00:19:21,014 --> 00:19:24,574 Speaker 2: wasn't supposed to. But for those who have had experience 358 00:19:24,574 --> 00:19:27,694 Speaker 2: with voluntary assisted dying, they say it is a strange 359 00:19:27,734 --> 00:19:29,934 Speaker 2: thing to go through with someone you love knowing the 360 00:19:30,014 --> 00:19:33,094 Speaker 2: exact moment they're going to leave you. But Lauren says 361 00:19:33,134 --> 00:19:35,094 Speaker 2: for her and her family, it could not have been 362 00:19:35,094 --> 00:19:35,694 Speaker 2: more positive. 363 00:19:36,094 --> 00:19:39,454 Speaker 4: I just look at that day with joy, which might 364 00:19:39,494 --> 00:19:41,934 Speaker 4: seem a little bit strange to use that word, but 365 00:19:42,054 --> 00:19:45,614 Speaker 4: it really was such a happy day. Just before Dad 366 00:19:45,934 --> 00:19:48,534 Speaker 4: left to go and have his medication or be administered 367 00:19:48,614 --> 00:19:52,214 Speaker 4: the medication, we stood around like the kitchen bench for 368 00:19:52,214 --> 00:19:54,734 Speaker 4: a final time as a family and cracked a bottle 369 00:19:54,734 --> 00:19:58,054 Speaker 4: of mue cheersed him one last time, did a big 370 00:19:58,094 --> 00:20:00,494 Speaker 4: group hug and then him a moment went off for 371 00:20:00,574 --> 00:20:03,254 Speaker 4: their last few moments together as well. And when I 372 00:20:03,294 --> 00:20:05,614 Speaker 4: think back at that, I just smile. It makes me 373 00:20:05,734 --> 00:20:06,294 Speaker 4: so happy. 374 00:20:08,054 --> 00:20:10,294 Speaker 2: Thanks for taking the time to feed your with us today. 375 00:20:10,374 --> 00:20:13,774 Speaker 2: Don't forget to get onto that Black Friday subscription sale people. 376 00:20:13,894 --> 00:20:17,894 Speaker 2: It is the cheapest yearly subscription Mamma Mia has ever offered. 377 00:20:18,214 --> 00:20:20,734 Speaker 2: You're getting thirty three dollars off, which means for just 378 00:20:20,894 --> 00:20:24,134 Speaker 2: thirty six dollars you will get twelve months of access 379 00:20:24,334 --> 00:20:26,814 Speaker 2: of Mamma Mia behind the scenes. So get onto it. 380 00:20:26,854 --> 00:20:28,974 Speaker 2: We'll pop a link in our show notes. You've just 381 00:20:29,094 --> 00:20:32,134 Speaker 2: got to use the code Quickie Friday when you sign up, 382 00:20:32,254 --> 00:20:34,534 Speaker 2: so you get the cash off, So get onto it. 383 00:20:35,134 --> 00:20:37,734 Speaker 2: The Quiki is produced by me Claire Murphy and our 384 00:20:37,774 --> 00:20:41,414 Speaker 2: executive producer Taylor Strono, with audio production by Teagan Sadler.