Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mama Me. I acknowledges the traditional owners of the land
Speaker 2: and waters that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3: And I thought tic tik tik tik tik, being like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, this is amazing. I've got my first
Speaker 3: actual travel TV show and this is amazing. And all
Speaker 3: I could remember is sitting there going why do I
Speaker 3: look so overweight? What is going on with my skin?
Speaker 3: What is going on with my hair? Why I'm a
Speaker 3: mannerisms like that? Is this why I'm single?
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to But Are You Happy? The podcast
Speaker 2: that asks the questions you've always wanted to know from
Speaker 2: the people who appear to have it all. Karnong is
Speaker 2: an immensely talented chef and media personality who you may
Speaker 2: have seen on shows like Master Chef, Survivor and more
Speaker 2: recently on I'm a Celebrity, Get Me out of Here.
Speaker 2: But Karan's life began in an Indonesian refugee camp. His
Speaker 2: parents made the journey to Australia by boat, where they
Speaker 2: were attacked by pirates and had propellers break in shark
Speaker 2: infested waters. When he was in year ten, he lost
Speaker 2: his dad, which shook his family to their core.
Speaker 3: He found out a year and a half before we
Speaker 3: found out, but he thought that there is no time
Speaker 3: to deal with this. I have a year and a half,
Speaker 3: two years, three years to build a business strong enough
Speaker 3: so that my family will be fine.
Speaker 2: We talk about how even in the moments where you
Speaker 2: get at all, things don't necessarily feel right. The truth is,
Speaker 2: if you're not okay because of your mental health or
Speaker 2: a breakup or low self esteem, you don't suddenly become
Speaker 2: confident just because the country adores you. Here's my chat
Speaker 2: with Khanong. Khanong, you're one of Australia's most adored TV personalities.
Speaker 2: You're a cook and an author, and you've appeared on
Speaker 2: Master Chef and Survivor. You have your own show on
Speaker 2: SBS Food called Carnung's Wild Food, and you've published a cookbook,
Speaker 2: A Gays Guide to Life, Love and Food. Most recently,
Speaker 2: you've come out of the South African jungle for I'm
Speaker 2: a celebrity, Get me out of here. But putting aside
Speaker 2: everything we can see from the outside, what's the reality
Speaker 2: of your life right now?
Speaker 3: Firstly, can you tell how awkward I got when you
Speaker 3: were reading that I am not a words of affirmation
Speaker 3: kind of person.
Speaker 4: That is not my love language. I just like become like, ah,
Speaker 4: thank you so much. And I do not know how
Speaker 4: to deal with people telling me things that I've done.
Speaker 4: The reality is that everything is a lot of work.
Speaker 3: I feel as though people look at my socials and
Speaker 3: they're like, all he does is cook and he's smiling
Speaker 3: and he's happy.
Speaker 1: But it's like schedules.
Speaker 3: It's all schedules, and it's like every single bit of
Speaker 3: my life is down to half an hour blocks, which
Speaker 3: I love because I like to stay busy. That's my
Speaker 3: whole thing. I've grown up with parents that are they
Speaker 3: work very hard. So for me, I'm like, if I'm
Speaker 3: not doing something, I'm not working. Like if I'm staying
Speaker 3: still right now, I'm not working. And I need to
Speaker 3: be working because my mom and dad like came over
Speaker 3: here to give me opportunities for me to like better
Speaker 3: my life.
Speaker 1: I need to better my life.
Speaker 2: I think that's such a good point to make that
Speaker 2: when you are a person of your profile and who
Speaker 2: is leaning in to so many opportunities, it's not all
Speaker 2: fun and it is a whole lot of work that
Speaker 2: people don't see.
Speaker 3: But you can't talk about it and you can't complain
Speaker 3: about it, and you can't say anything. It's fun, yeah,
Speaker 3: because it's like, well, I'm sorry that you get to
Speaker 3: you know, fly everywhere and film like content and like
Speaker 3: see new things or like do I'm a celeb or
Speaker 3: like you get to meet these amazing people you can't
Speaker 3: complain and I'm like, yeah, but it's also like really.
Speaker 1: Stressful sometimes and sometimes I'm tired.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I'm sorry that I'm like, but I feel
Speaker 3: like everyone's allowed to complain because if you've I feel
Speaker 3: a certain way, no one can take that away.
Speaker 2: From you, right exactly. And you were just in the jungle, Well,
Speaker 2: I'm a celebrity and you were with reality stars and
Speaker 2: actors and TV presenters and sports people and comedians. Tell
Speaker 2: me about the experience of being in the jungle.
Speaker 3: Let's just say I loved it so much, and it's
Speaker 3: my favorite show that I've been on. Like I loved
Speaker 3: Master Chef because it gave me a career survivor I
Speaker 3: was a fan of, so I really wanted to do it.
Speaker 3: I'm a celeb was a totally different beast where I
Speaker 3: met all these people and I learned so much about
Speaker 3: their lives, their families, but mostly it's a program where
Speaker 3: there's a lot of downtime. And because there is so
Speaker 3: much downtime, it was a moment for me for three
Speaker 3: and a half weeks to kind of literally take myself
Speaker 3: away from my real world and go, what do I
Speaker 3: need right now? What do I want? What is missing?
Speaker 3: And I think that's why I loved it so much.
Speaker 2: Because you don't have a phone, you don't have any
Speaker 2: of the distractions of modern life. I mean, I look
Speaker 2: at it and I couldn't do any of the challenges.
Speaker 2: I'd be absolutely hopeless. But there is something actually quite
Speaker 2: profound about in this day and age going to the
Speaker 2: jungle yep, only socially interacting with people in real life,
Speaker 2: not having any of the busyness that usually gets us
Speaker 2: through the day. How did you come out feeling?
Speaker 3: First of all, I think that you could do the challenges,
Speaker 3: because I thought that I couldn't do the challenges, the trials,
Speaker 3: But I feel like when you're in a space like that,
Speaker 3: you just have to do it because you don't want
Speaker 3: to let anyone down.
Speaker 1: When I came out of the jungle, I felt really refreshed.
Speaker 3: It wasn't the lack of phone or emails or friends,
Speaker 3: family like work. But it was the idea that I
Speaker 3: had time to really think about what my career looked like,
Speaker 3: what I wanted it to be, and how I wanted
Speaker 3: to change it so that I can do multiple things
Speaker 3: at the same time, but also have more time to myself.
Speaker 3: Because I found that being in the jungle, I realized
Speaker 3: that I do need a lot more downtime then I
Speaker 3: really thought that I did. Saying that today I have
Speaker 3: like this zero downtown, I'm like, oh my god, I
Speaker 3: learned that I need more downtime and that's not going
Speaker 3: to happen until ten thirty at nine.
Speaker 1: It's currently eight fifteen in the morning.
Speaker 2: And was there anybody that you met in jungle who
Speaker 2: was very different to what you expected?
Speaker 1: Candice Wuna?
Speaker 2: How was she different?
Speaker 3: Candace Wuner is portrayed in the Australian media as this
Speaker 3: hard exterior, this woman. She's an iron woman live, She's
Speaker 3: super strong, she is nurturing, she loves her kids so much.
Speaker 3: She only cares about her family. I was able to
Speaker 3: have full conversations with her where she was really motherly
Speaker 3: towards me and I really clicked with her From day
Speaker 3: three or four where I went, oh my god, I
Speaker 3: really really love you. I don't think this aired, but
Speaker 3: there was a moment where cooked together and she was
Speaker 3: talking about her husband and her kids and how hard
Speaker 3: it was to be pregnant and flying to London at
Speaker 3: the time because the word cup was on and she
Speaker 3: was giving birth and she wasn't really allowed to see
Speaker 3: her husband during it because they have no partner band.
Speaker 1: And I went to the talking cried for half an hour.
Speaker 5: They didn't, but I was just like this woman, Like
Speaker 5: she just looks so strong, but there's all of these
Speaker 5: things that she's gone through that people don't even know
Speaker 5: about because all they see is like this hard exterior.
Speaker 2: It must be really fascinating to get to know the
Speaker 2: human being behind the image, because all of those people
Speaker 2: in the jungle you know to some extent. And what
Speaker 2: I've always found fascinating is that sometimes it's the people
Speaker 2: you think you'll get along with that you don't necessarily,
Speaker 2: and the people that you think you'll have nothing in
Speaker 2: common with that you weirdly bond with.
Speaker 3: It's so odd and Pete as well, like Pete's like
Speaker 3: an AFL legend. Yeah, Like and I was like Okay,
Speaker 3: well we're going to talk about like there's a generational
Speaker 3: gap here, and also you're like AFL and like I
Speaker 3: know nothing. Yeah, but again it was a family connection
Speaker 3: where we spoke about like his family, his kids, his partner.
Speaker 3: And it's those moments that I went, no one cares
Speaker 3: about the Korea cares, No one cares about what you
Speaker 3: do for a living. It all comes down to everyone
Speaker 3: is here for their family. Everyone just wants to live
Speaker 3: for their family and their loved ones.
Speaker 2: And it's also a good reminder that you're right, it's
Speaker 2: not what anybody cares about or talks about in actual life.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's weird that I think, because we're often so obsessed
Speaker 2: with just having a really shiny version of ourselves that
Speaker 2: the world sees when you connect with another human being,
Speaker 2: you're never talking about the superficial stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 3: It's also I find that it's this like label that
Speaker 3: everyone gets given. You get smashed with a label and
Speaker 3: everyone goes, that is you, that is who you are.
Speaker 3: But there's also like forty five million layers behind that
Speaker 3: that no one talks about because it's too hard to
Speaker 3: because it's like, well, no, if you're not the aofl legend.
Speaker 1: Who are you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot more complicated to get your head around.
Speaker 2: We often ask on this show about a time the
Speaker 2: world told you you'd be happy and you weren't, And
Speaker 2: one of those times for you is actually right now.
Speaker 3: Yes, I am very happy. Yes I've got a lot
Speaker 3: of things going on in my life. But when I
Speaker 3: was in the jungle, when I was talking to everyone,
Speaker 3: I was like, I really want kids, and I've always
Speaker 3: really want kids, but I think it's kind of right
Speaker 3: now that I'm thinking I need to start that process now, Like,
Speaker 3: if I really do want kids, I need to start
Speaker 3: that process now. And the idea that scares me and
Speaker 3: makes me really upset is that I possibly might not
Speaker 3: have them.
Speaker 2: You're so right the thing about kids, because I have
Speaker 2: just had a little question and it's a weirdly intentional decision.
Speaker 2: It's for some reason. I think when you're growing up
Speaker 2: you think it will just happen, But even woman heterosexual relationship,
Speaker 2: it's really intentional. There's a moment where you have to
Speaker 2: be like, oh, we have to decide that we want
Speaker 2: to do this thing that we know is going to
Speaker 2: change our lives. And for you, obviously it's thinking about
Speaker 2: how we go about that. Am I going to do
Speaker 2: that with my current partner? And so are you feeling
Speaker 2: a sense of urgency?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I am feeling a sense of urgency.
Speaker 3: I'm at an age where, look, I probably still have
Speaker 3: five or six years before it becomes very, very urgent.
Speaker 3: But it's that idea of possibly ever having them that
Speaker 3: is really scaring me right now. I always grew up
Speaker 3: picturing myself with the farm, with the chickens and with
Speaker 3: the kids, and you're completely right in your mind as
Speaker 3: a child, you think it's just going to happen. And
Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't know how that it's going to
Speaker 3: happen right now, And I don't even know who that's
Speaker 3: going to happen with. If I want to do it
Speaker 3: with someone else, or if I do this alone, how
Speaker 3: do I make that work?
Speaker 1: It is a thirty We cannot cry in the morning.
Speaker 3: When I was thinking about that, I was like, it's
Speaker 3: the one thing that constantly is now in the back
Speaker 3: of my mind, and it's like, when are you going
Speaker 3: to do this?
Speaker 1: You don't have time to write your next book.
Speaker 3: The kids are a massive one, Like you have to
Speaker 3: sit down and actually really think about this, so right
Speaker 3: now is the moment that I should be happy. But
Speaker 3: there's this little thing in the back that is just
Speaker 3: constantly there.
Speaker 2: There's so much honesty to that, and it's such a
Speaker 2: reminder that from the outside it can look like someone
Speaker 2: has everything, but there can be something really quiet that
Speaker 2: they secretly wish that they had.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: A lot of my friends have just had children. Sarah Holloway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, she just had a baby.
Speaker 3: Yes, she had a baby an hour before I went
Speaker 3: into the jungle. No after I went into the jungle,
Speaker 3: and she was looking after my social she's my best friend.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and she's like calmed, you handed your phone over,
Speaker 3: And then the.
Speaker 1: Baby came and I just didn't know what to do.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I missed the birthy
Speaker 1: literally like an hour.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: But like I see kids now, and I see babies
Speaker 3: and they just make me smile y. Yeah, Like I
Speaker 3: just get really really happy with seeing Europe this potato
Speaker 3: that does nothing all day.
Speaker 2: They're so funny. It's really hard to explain it. My
Speaker 2: partner and I have said it reminds us of the
Speaker 2: Matrix and like the Red pill and the Blue pill,
Speaker 2: and once you have a kid. It's a bit like
Speaker 2: you've chosen to take whichever the pill is that shows
Speaker 2: you reality. Yeah, and you can't explain it to anybody else.
Speaker 2: It's just a feeling, yeah, and like a knowing that
Speaker 2: there's this amazing sense of meaning and that's it's not
Speaker 2: for everyone. And actually having a child has made me realize, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't think everyone should be a parent. It's really hard,
Speaker 2: but I understand that longing that.
Speaker 1: I want to make them dinners that they won't want
Speaker 1: to eat.
Speaker 3: I want them to I want to take them places
Speaker 3: and they're just going to shut tantrums and just really
Speaker 3: test me, like I want. I get jealous to see
Speaker 3: all of the things that my friends have to go through,
Speaker 3: which look painful, but to me, I'm.
Speaker 2: Like, I want that. After the break, Khan opens up
Speaker 2: about his childhood, including his mom's unexpected reaction when he
Speaker 2: came out to her. He also talks about losing his
Speaker 2: dad and the secret his dad kept from their family.
Speaker 2: You were born in an Indonesian refugee camp, and you
Speaker 2: spent the first two years of your life there. Tell
Speaker 2: me what you know about what your parents' lives looked
Speaker 2: like at that time.
Speaker 3: So mom and Dad went to Indonesia. That's where the
Speaker 3: refugee camp was via boat. I think they got caught
Speaker 3: by authorities in Malaysian waters and were then escorted to Indonesia.
Speaker 3: But I think the whole idea behind leaving Vietnam was
Speaker 3: not to make it to Australia or make it anywhere,
Speaker 3: but it was just to be caught outside of Vietnamese
Speaker 3: waters so that then you can get processed. So they
Speaker 3: ended up in Indonesia in a place called Going, which
Speaker 3: I recently researched because I think I'm trying to organize
Speaker 3: to get my mum back there.
Speaker 1: Oh wow.
Speaker 3: It's an island that had mostly Vino Meis refugees that
Speaker 3: were being processed for Germany, the US, Canada, Australia, and
Speaker 3: there were thousands and thousands there at the same time.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's the same way that people think
Speaker 3: of refugee camps now. It's not so much prison line.
Speaker 3: It's an island with like houses and uts and things
Speaker 3: like that. Everyone kind of had like jobs within the community.
Speaker 3: So Mum was a seamstress. Dad chopped wood, but also
Speaker 3: so collected snakes because there were snakes all over the
Speaker 3: Island and apparently he went and he would wrangle them
Speaker 3: and that was part of what he did for a living.
Speaker 3: But yeah, life in the refugee acount was a very
Speaker 3: different where you kind of did make a living.
Speaker 1: You were like exchanging skills and things like that.
Speaker 3: There's photos that I've seen of them with like friends
Speaker 3: they traveled with and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: That were Yeah, but they were there for four years.
Speaker 3: Then basically it's a system where once you get processed,
Speaker 3: you go to a country. That system is really once
Speaker 3: you have enough money to get processed, you go to
Speaker 3: a country where it's like you have like you got
Speaker 3: to pay for the paperwork, you got to pay for
Speaker 3: certain things, but it's really the money that gets you somewhere.
Speaker 3: So it did require a lot of our extended family
Speaker 3: chipping in to get them processed to come to Australia.
Speaker 3: So they came to Australia when I was two. We
Speaker 3: were living with an auntie who was not really my auntie.
Speaker 3: We just shared the same last name, which is how
Speaker 3: it amuse people work if you've got the same last
Speaker 3: name your family. We moved to Southeast suburbs of Melbourne.
Speaker 3: Dad opened his first butcher shop, put all his money
Speaker 3: in to do that. Mum was working still as the
Speaker 3: seamstress at night doing samples and stuff, but during the
Speaker 3: day would help at.
Speaker 1: The butcher shop.
Speaker 3: They would work, They were workhorses. We didn't spend a
Speaker 3: lot of time together, which is not their fault. They
Speaker 3: worked and the time that I would spend with Mum
Speaker 3: and Dad would be after hours in the kitchen where
Speaker 3: they would do brief about their day and I remember
Speaker 3: sitting on the kitchen counter like that's just what I did.
Speaker 2: And as you started to grow up in Australia, do
Speaker 2: you remember that as being a happy childhood.
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 3: I think it's because I grew up in Swing Vale,
Speaker 3: which is a very Vitnamese area, Like everyone was pretty
Speaker 3: much Vitamise, where I went to a primary school and
Speaker 3: it wasn't until like I went to high school that
Speaker 3: I even knew that I was potentially a little bit different.
Speaker 3: In high school, there were little things like it's a
Speaker 3: name that like we shorten as Australians, but I didn't
Speaker 3: even think about it. It was like probably like Nathaniel
Speaker 3: and Nathan or something like that. It's something stupid where
Speaker 3: a longer name is short into a tiny name, and
Speaker 3: I remember reading books and that never made sense to me.
Speaker 1: So it was like Daniel and Dan, I was like
Speaker 1: I never understood that.
Speaker 2: Or like William and Billy. Yeah, never understood It's like
Speaker 2: what but yeah, it's only through that being in your
Speaker 2: family or whatever that actually starts to make sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and my parents don't speak English.
Speaker 3: Mum speaks English Ish now, so I didn't grow up
Speaker 3: with all like these nuances of like language and things
Speaker 3: that would make sense to me. And there was even
Speaker 3: other little things that made me feel different where I remember,
Speaker 3: in just seven, we were playing cricket or we were
Speaker 3: being taught how to play cricket, and I just didn't
Speaker 3: know if once I hit the wall, I had to
Speaker 3: run or not, and just like and it's like little
Speaker 3: things like that where no one explains that to.
Speaker 2: You, but the others will have just had it on
Speaker 2: the background on the TV for their whole childhood. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and so it goes without saying to them, Yeah, what
Speaker 2: you do? I mean, I actually don't know if i'd
Speaker 2: run on, but yeah, I can imagine there's a little
Speaker 2: boy You're like, hold on.
Speaker 3: A second, yeah, And I have no idea, And then
Speaker 3: like I feel embarrassed to usk like we would be
Speaker 3: like playing football and I'm like, okay, cool, so you
Speaker 3: kick the ball, you handle the ball, you can't throw
Speaker 3: the ball. Why can't you throw the ball? Like, I
Speaker 3: just don't understand any of these rules. And these are
Speaker 3: the little things that I feel like immigrants go through
Speaker 3: that no one ever even talks about. Like it's these
Speaker 3: little tiny things that makes me feel like an idiot.
Speaker 3: And it's things that I still remember from my childhood
Speaker 3: that isn't really that big of a deal, but at
Speaker 3: that moment for me, it is a big deal because
Speaker 3: I feel super dumb.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and as you're growing up, you're getting this sense
Speaker 2: that there's something different and then you start to come
Speaker 2: to terms with this textuality. So what age were you
Speaker 2: when you start to think about that?
Speaker 1: There were multiple times. The first time.
Speaker 3: Was year eight, Yeah, year eight where I went to
Speaker 3: a Hailarbry, a parallel education where boys go to boys classes,
Speaker 3: girls go to girls classes. We spend recess and lunches together.
Speaker 3: So I felt really comfortable at that school. Came out
Speaker 3: all good friends, no problems. Changed schools. Went to Melbourne High.
Speaker 3: It's a very Vinamese family thing where they want you
Speaker 3: to go to Melbourne High School because it's a selective school.
Speaker 3: It costs nothing, and it's like they take like the
Speaker 3: top two percent of every other high school got in.
Speaker 3: Mom and dad are so happy with me. I fucking
Speaker 3: hated it. I remember I went to Melbourne High. I
Speaker 3: was commuting. It would take me from the moment of
Speaker 3: waking up to get to school about an hour and
Speaker 3: fifteen minutes and it was every day walking up this
Speaker 3: hill going home an hour of fifteen minutes sitting on
Speaker 3: the train. Everyone was really really academic.
Speaker 2: But it's pretty incredible to come from not speaking English
Speaker 2: at home to then getting into a really competitive selective school.
Speaker 2: Like that's some natural intelligence, but that's also bloody hard work.
Speaker 3: Okay, so I'm going to let you in on a
Speaker 3: little secret. My mum and dad they know exactly how
Speaker 3: to work me. Mum still knows how to work me.
Speaker 3: And basically it was like, Okay, if you get into
Speaker 3: this school, you can go to Vietnam every year, I
Speaker 3: don't know, holiday during school holidays. And I was like,
Speaker 3: oh yeah, cool, done. So it was like always little
Speaker 3: rewards for me.
Speaker 2: Side note, where in Vietnam where you from originally?
Speaker 3: So It is the southern tip of Vietnam, a town
Speaker 3: called Gamau Fishing Village, really small. Grammar and granddads still
Speaker 3: live there. I've still got some uncles and aunties there.
Speaker 3: I do visit from time to time. It is really
Speaker 3: beautiful on the Mekong Delta, about eight hours drive south
Speaker 3: of Hochimun City.
Speaker 1: Oh gorgeous.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love Vitnam.
Speaker 3: Then Mum and dad said, do you know what if
Speaker 3: you want to go back to Haylarbury, it's one way
Speaker 3: you can do it, and you just have to make
Speaker 3: the schooling equal, so like the cost has to.
Speaker 1: Be the same. And I was like, how the hell
Speaker 1: am I going to do that?
Speaker 3: So I started applying for different scholarships at Halearbury and
Speaker 3: I got a general Excellence and then that wasn't enough,
Speaker 3: so I sat academic exam and that got me the
Speaker 3: rest of it, and so my schooling became free. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and so Mum and Dad allowed me to come back
Speaker 3: to Halebury and it was the best thing ever because
Speaker 3: I feel so at home at that school. I am
Speaker 3: obsessed with the school, I'm obsessed with the alumni. I
Speaker 3: will send my kids there in a heartbeat. I felt
Speaker 3: totally supported for being gay for everything, Like they just
Speaker 3: were really nurtury.
Speaker 2: When you do start thinking about your sexuality, do you
Speaker 2: think about having to share it publicly or are you
Speaker 2: trying to work it out privately.
Speaker 3: So I came out when in your eight, went back
Speaker 3: in the closet when I went to almaheen ' nine.
Speaker 3: Came back out at the end of nine because I
Speaker 3: went back to Hillary. But it wasn't really something that
Speaker 3: I had to share with the public. It was just
Speaker 3: like something that I was exploring with my friends at
Speaker 3: school to be like, oh, yeah, I'm interested in these guys,
Speaker 3: blah blah blah blah blah whatever. It never became a
Speaker 3: big thing until it came to the point where I
Speaker 3: had to speak to like my mom about it. Sorry,
Speaker 3: there's a lot going on in this whole period of
Speaker 3: my life. My father passed away when I was sixteen
Speaker 3: and I was towards the end of year ten, and
Speaker 3: that really pivoted my entire life where I no longer
Speaker 3: wanted to be a plastic surgeon. I wanted to dive
Speaker 3: headfirst into fashion. At the same time Mom and I
Speaker 3: were not getting along. I went back to school after
Speaker 3: dad died the day after and just did the normal thing,
Speaker 3: didn't really give it too much thought, life went on
Speaker 3: as normal.
Speaker 1: I didn't deal with it.
Speaker 3: I basically just didn't deal with dad dying, and so
Speaker 3: I took it out on mom, and I took out
Speaker 3: our mom for a couple of years. When I was eighteen,
Speaker 3: towards the end of year twelve, I remember I was
Speaker 3: sitting in the car with her and she was like,
Speaker 3: I started hanging out with someone. I was like, I
Speaker 3: don't want to talk about it. She's like, oh, what
Speaker 3: would you think about me daddy? I was like, I
Speaker 3: don't want to talk about it, and that kent went
Speaker 3: on for about four or five I don't want to
Speaker 3: talk about it until I decided to open the door
Speaker 3: of the car and roll out.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I am horrific. Like I was a
Speaker 1: horrific teenager.
Speaker 2: I mean, you were going through a lot at the
Speaker 2: same time, but that is a scary thing to do. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I literally was like, I would rather roll out of
Speaker 3: this movie car than continue to have this conversation with you. Anyway,
Speaker 3: totally regretted that because I had to walk home for
Speaker 3: three kilometers. So I'm walking home and but that really
Speaker 3: just changed our relationship where Mum didn't feel comfortable speaking
Speaker 3: to me anymore. I just didn't want to talk to
Speaker 3: her anymore. I hadn't come out of that point to
Speaker 3: my family, and I ran away, not from home, but.
Speaker 1: Like I ran away in the senses. I moved to
Speaker 1: London to study fashion.
Speaker 3: Just before I decided that I'm going going to run
Speaker 3: to London and like run away from my mother, I
Speaker 3: thought that I would weaponize my sexuality.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Which is like insane and like not the normal coming
Speaker 3: out story where I just literally sat in front of her.
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, I want another fight, and I reckon
Speaker 3: that if I come out now, there will be a fight.
Speaker 2: I've never heard someone say that, but that is such
Speaker 2: a authentically teenage thing to do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And like I did struggle with ever talking about
Speaker 3: this because it makes me fucking sound like the worst
Speaker 3: person ever. That I literally sat there and was like,
Speaker 3: I'm going to weaponize coming out. So I sat down
Speaker 3: and I said I wasn't even like very calm about it.
Speaker 3: I was like, hey, yes, I have something to tell you.
Speaker 3: I'm gay, like guys, And I just like watched her
Speaker 3: for a bit and she was.
Speaker 1: Like, how do you feel about going to vi Nam?
Speaker 1: And I was like, what.
Speaker 2: A separate question?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: In my mind, I was like, okay, so she's going
Speaker 3: to send me to like some kind of camp where
Speaker 3: they rehabilitate me into not being gay. Instead, my mom
Speaker 3: goes the community is very big in Vietnam. You can
Speaker 3: probably make a really good career there. You might become
Speaker 3: quite famous.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, excuse.
Speaker 2: Me, It's like you were meant to be angry.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you were meant to be angry. You were meant
Speaker 3: to be like sad. You were meant to do something
Speaker 3: that would cause me to fight you. Instead, I'm laughing.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm sorry. So your answer to me being
Speaker 3: a homosexual is that you would like me to go
Speaker 3: to Vietnam and try and become famous. I love it,
Speaker 3: and I literally I love her like I love like.
Speaker 3: My mom and I are really close now. But I've
Speaker 3: like because after that, I was like, Okay, well, I
Speaker 3: can't really do anything wrong.
Speaker 1: My mom loves me, damn it. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Wow, my coming out story wasn't a sad one. No,
Speaker 3: She's always been really supportive. But I flew to London
Speaker 3: to do my UNI there at Saint Martin's and it
Speaker 3: was hell for me.
Speaker 1: I couldn't afford to do anything.
Speaker 3: I was making like five pound an hour working like
Speaker 3: minimum els because you can't even work for time there
Speaker 3: as a student, So I couldn't pay for rent, I
Speaker 3: couldn't pay for food, and I couldn't pay to do anything,
Speaker 3: and I couldn't pay for my schooling. I think Mum
Speaker 3: was helping with the schooling at the time, but still
Speaker 3: it was not enough money to do anything. So I
Speaker 3: decided that I was going to come back and try
Speaker 3: and do fashion school here. But to come back, I
Speaker 3: was like, hey, Mom, I don't think I can live
Speaker 3: with you. I think for our relationship to now work,
Speaker 3: I have to live outside of this house. And I
Speaker 3: pretty much apologized to her and I said, you know,
Speaker 3: the last three years, I've been pretty braddy. I was
Speaker 3: just not a nice person. I was not a nice kid,
Speaker 3: Like obviously there's the whole dad thing, but I feel
Speaker 3: really guilty about it a lot, and I've spoken to
Speaker 3: her about it a lot, and she was like, you're
Speaker 3: like seventeen, like it's expected for you to just be hard.
Speaker 3: But yeah, became really close after that. When I apologized
Speaker 3: and I was like, I'm like, I'm really sorry. You're
Speaker 3: allowed to see whoever you want. Like you are still young.
Speaker 2: When you're looking at a parent, I can see how
Speaker 2: you think, no, no, your only job is to be
Speaker 2: my mom.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so I was just like, that was a
Speaker 3: ridiculous reaction of me to have about you dating.
Speaker 1: And since then.
Speaker 3: We've been really, really good. I try to see my mom.
Speaker 3: Over the past ten years, I try to see her
Speaker 3: every week. Over the past three years, it has become
Speaker 3: every second week because it's been a little bit busier,
Speaker 3: but I speak to her pretty much two three times
Speaker 3: a week.
Speaker 2: I love how you tried to be rejected by your mother.
Speaker 2: She's like, I accept you. So you were in year
Speaker 2: ten when your dad passed away. Yes, he was sick. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And is it true that he didn't tell dad.
Speaker 1: My father had started the butcher shop.
Speaker 3: My father had hap bee from Vietnam, just like from
Speaker 3: being like in poverty. He had hep B, which then
Speaker 3: changed to liver cancer. Yeah, progress it became liver cancer.
Speaker 3: He found out about a year and a half before
Speaker 3: we found out. He found out about it, but he
Speaker 3: thought that there is no time to deal with this.
Speaker 3: I have a year and a half, two years, three
Speaker 3: years to build a business strong enough so that my
Speaker 3: family will be fine.
Speaker 2: Oh there's nothing more self like heartbreaking.
Speaker 3: It's so ridiculous, Like I don't think I could do
Speaker 3: something like that, but yeah, I remember when I was sixteen, seventeen,
Speaker 3: eighteen and he had passed away. I think the reason
Speaker 3: why I wasn't dealing with it was I was kind
Speaker 3: of pissed off as well that my father literally kept
Speaker 3: like this massive secret from the entire family. And yes,
Speaker 3: it's a very self list thing to do, but I
Speaker 3: thought it was also a very selfish thing to do,
Speaker 3: especially because I'm like, my sister is nine, and instead
Speaker 3: of trying to take care of your health, you may
Speaker 3: leave a nine year old without a father.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, and not sharing it meant there was
Speaker 2: less time for everyone to just be aware of it
Speaker 2: and spend as a family. I know, yeah, and know
Speaker 2: that this was potentially the end.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But the crazy thing is if dad didn't do that,
Speaker 3: Mum wouldn't have the life that she currently has. And
Speaker 3: so I'm like, Okay, that's horrific and like a horrible,
Speaker 3: like just a shit thing to do. But at the
Speaker 3: same time, I kind of see why you did it,
Speaker 3: because this is exactly what he wanted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And what was it like to actually lose him?
Speaker 2: Were you in the room?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I was in the room.
Speaker 3: Were in the My mom, once she had found out,
Speaker 3: decided that she would do everything, and when I say everything,
Speaker 3: I mean everything to try and fix it, like that
Speaker 3: was her thing where it was like modern medicine wasn't working,
Speaker 3: Western medicine wasn't working. We're gonna see witch doctors. Dad
Speaker 3: was so against it. He was like, I'm weak, blah
Speaker 3: blah blah. I don't want to die and be dumb,
Speaker 3: like I don't want to passway. And so the night
Speaker 3: before we were supposed to fly to Vietnam, we were
Speaker 3: all sitting like in the mountain room like packing, dealing
Speaker 3: with that, like our passports. That was the night the
Speaker 3: dad passed away. Wow, And it was just him going,
Speaker 3: I'm not going at it.
Speaker 1: M yeah, I'm not leaving, like I'm not doing this.
Speaker 3: It happened also fast, but also so slow that I
Speaker 3: was just like I didn't even know that he was
Speaker 3: actually dying.
Speaker 1: Like it was like I think he went into a
Speaker 1: hahjack from it.
Speaker 3: And then we called the ambulance they came blah blah blah,
Speaker 3: but he was gone. But I didn't even really register
Speaker 3: to me that my dad wasn't there anymore. That it
Speaker 3: was like I'm like, no, no, Like you watch this
Speaker 3: on TV. The ambulance comes, they take them away and.
Speaker 1: Then they end up in hospital. Yeah. Yeah, and that
Speaker 1: was just it. But literally that was the last moment.
Speaker 2: Wow, looking back at your dad's life, do you think
Speaker 2: your dad was happy?
Speaker 1: Dad was definitely happy.
Speaker 3: Mom and Dad have a relationship that I really looked
Speaker 3: up to, not part where he didn't tell her that
Speaker 3: was dying and not the heart, the part where they
Speaker 3: did everything in their power to be together. Like they
Speaker 3: left Vietnam together even though my grandma and my grandma's
Speaker 3: on both sides were totally against it. They didn't want
Speaker 3: my parents to be here together. They came to Australia.
Speaker 3: They build a family together, they build business together. They
Speaker 3: were so madly in love and they just wanted this family.
Speaker 3: And that's something that I didn't really think until just
Speaker 3: about now.
Speaker 1: When you asked me that, I was like, ah, so
Speaker 1: that's where that comes from.
Speaker 3: Yea, yeah, because even now, like Mom dates like she's
Speaker 3: having boyfriends and things before. But when I asked her,
Speaker 3: does it get more like serious in this that you
Speaker 3: think of getting me married? Because she goes, no, I
Speaker 3: had the love of my life. It's gone now like
Speaker 3: this is just more of a companion thing.
Speaker 2: Up next, we chat about the impact that being cheated
Speaker 2: on had on Calm self esteem, the experience of watching
Speaker 2: yourself on television and hating how you look, and why
Speaker 2: can't thinks that even successful people don't always find more
Speaker 2: happiness when they get what they want. Calm, there's another
Speaker 2: time in your life when the world told you you'd
Speaker 2: be happy and you weren't. When was that?
Speaker 3: A little bit of a background on this when you
Speaker 3: come off Master Chef right, and there are things that
Speaker 3: you want as a contestant. You want restaurants, or you
Speaker 3: want cookbooks, or you want TV shows, or you just
Speaker 3: want to like write for a publication, whatever it is.
Speaker 3: There are things that they're a goalposts for you. I
Speaker 3: had gotten the cookbook, I'd gotten the restaurant, I'd gotten
Speaker 3: the TV show, I was writing for publications, and then
Speaker 3: I was onto my next television show, Karlon's Wild Food,
Speaker 3: a show that was my dream show, is my dream show,
Speaker 3: and I thought, tick tick tick tick tick, We've ticked
Speaker 3: off like the four major things that you want to
Speaker 3: do as a Master Chef contestant, and.
Speaker 2: A lot of people get none of them. It's a
Speaker 2: certain type of person who has stood out and who
Speaker 2: Australia has fallen in love with that gets those opportunities.
Speaker 1: You're like, who, thank you. Yeah. So I was on
Speaker 1: Conan's Wild Food.
Speaker 3: I was watching the pilot and I was going through
Speaker 3: a breakup at the time, and I remember being like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, this is amazing. I've got my first
Speaker 3: like actual travel TV show, and this is amazing. And
Speaker 3: all I could remember is sitting there going why do
Speaker 3: I look so overweight? What is going on with my skin?
Speaker 3: What is going on with my hair? Why I'm a
Speaker 3: mannerism is like that is this why I'm single? Like
Speaker 3: I was going through the breakup and watching myself at
Speaker 3: the time the same time, which was horrible, and like
Speaker 3: I just was not happy with how I looked and
Speaker 3: I had never really cared that. Yeah, I care about
Speaker 3: my clothes. I came about my hair and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: But I'm always like I'm fit, Like I go to
Speaker 3: the gym. Yes, I'm a chef and I eat a lot,
Speaker 3: but I go to the gym. But this was the
Speaker 3: first time where I saw myself on camera and I went,
Speaker 3: this is forever and this is why I'm single.
Speaker 2: Wow, because I reckon a lot of people get those
Speaker 2: sort of opportunities, whether it's like a photo shoot or
Speaker 2: you're doing an ad or something like that, and it
Speaker 2: looks so flash and so exciting, and no one prepares
Speaker 2: you for the fact that you might look at it
Speaker 2: and think, my hell, look shit, and everybody's looking at it,
Speaker 2: and it's this visceral feeling of I feel yuck, and
Speaker 2: I feel like that's going to be there forever ever,
Speaker 2: and I feel like I don't look my best and
Speaker 2: that makes me feel like shit.
Speaker 3: It's like I know that, like it's a very superficial
Speaker 3: thing to feel, but at the time, I remember just going,
Speaker 3: this is the reason I currently don't have love in
Speaker 3: my life.
Speaker 2: And to weave those two things together, yeah, is so
Speaker 2: I'm human but unhealthy and so arbitrary. So you were
Speaker 2: feeling rejected.
Speaker 1: I was feeling rejected.
Speaker 3: I was thinking like, maybe I'm just like super annoying,
Speaker 3: or my laugh is blah blah blah. I know that
Speaker 3: we don't fatciate, but I'm like, in my mind, maybe I'm.
Speaker 2: Just fat You start with the self talk, yeah, and that.
Speaker 1: Was what I was feeling.
Speaker 3: And then I was watching like these little edits of
Speaker 3: my own TV show, and that was running through my mind.
Speaker 3: I'm like, is that conversation I'm having with that person annoying?
Speaker 3: Like will the viewer look at that and go, oh god,
Speaker 3: he's just hit his on again? Or like it was
Speaker 3: just ridiculous that it was a TV show that was
Speaker 3: so proud to have as my own, but yet there
Speaker 3: was this constant stream of negativeativity that just made me
Speaker 3: really upset.
Speaker 2: Yeah, even though if you had looked at it, you know,
Speaker 2: years in the past, if you had told yourself, I'm
Speaker 2: mean to have my own TV show, you would have
Speaker 2: thought I am the happiest I've ever been.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So you've also talked about having been cheated on and
Speaker 2: how that kind of changed your idea of relationships. What
Speaker 2: was that experience?
Speaker 3: Like, Okay, so the cheating he is a really funny one.
Speaker 3: Being cheated on it it's not funny. But I was
Speaker 3: seeing this guy and everything was fine. We were no monogamous,
Speaker 3: We had other partners whatever. We were in bed one
Speaker 3: night and he goes, have you been sleeping with anyone else?
Speaker 3: I was like, no, not really for the last month
Speaker 3: or so.
Speaker 1: I was like have you guys? No, not really, and
Speaker 1: then I was like okay. He goes, do you want
Speaker 1: to just not? And I'm like, yeah, I would like that.
Speaker 3: Fast forward a month find out that he slept with
Speaker 3: someone that night, Like, I'm like, why did we have
Speaker 3: this conversation?
Speaker 2: Why did you It's like he wanted it to be
Speaker 2: cheated because it's like he put the rule in so
Speaker 2: he could break.
Speaker 3: Yeahs odd, But it's so weird because it was like
Speaker 3: we were fine, like we were sleeping with other people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we hadn't been actively doing it, but like that
Speaker 1: was allowed. And also like I was totally fine with
Speaker 1: you sleeping with someone else. It was honest. It was
Speaker 1: just so insane to me. Anyway.
Speaker 3: From that moment, I kind of changed the way I
Speaker 3: thought about relationships and I'm like, so I don't care
Speaker 3: about the sex thing, Like I don't care if my
Speaker 3: partner sleeps with someone else. What I cared about in
Speaker 3: that moment was the lie of it all. So I
Speaker 3: am currently hanging out seeing someone there is a special
Speaker 3: man in my life.
Speaker 2: He wrote you a letter.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just to put that out. He's not my boyfriend,
Speaker 3: but like in the Jungle, they put boyfriend. And I
Speaker 3: was mortified when I came out because I read it
Speaker 3: and I went, oh, my gosh, we've been labeled. We'd
Speaker 3: have literally just gone away together and everything's fine. We
Speaker 3: are in a situation.
Speaker 1: GYP non monogamous.
Speaker 3: And the reason behind that is I think personally it's
Speaker 3: not for everyone, but I think that the act of
Speaker 3: cheating or sleeping with someone isn't the thing that is
Speaker 3: the most hurtful part. The most hurtful part is the
Speaker 3: betrayal is the lie. And if you can have an
Speaker 3: open conversation with your partner about what your needs are.
Speaker 3: We've always been very open what your needs are, whether
Speaker 3: it be in the bedroom or like communication, whatever it is,
Speaker 3: and you can pick out the things that your partner
Speaker 3: may not be able to provide you, then you're taking
Speaker 3: away the lie and you're taking away the betrayal. So
Speaker 3: with me, I'm like, well, it doesn't make sense for
Speaker 3: us to be traveling, not living in the same state
Speaker 3: and be completely monogamous. Knowing that we'll go weeks on
Speaker 3: end without seeing each other, like see wherever you want.
Speaker 2: Do you generally in relationships? Do you not believe in monogamy?
Speaker 3: I always called myself monogamish, being that like, if my
Speaker 3: partner needed me to be monogamous, then it's something that
Speaker 3: we would speak about and I would probably be totally
Speaker 3: okay with it and we'll do it. But we've had
Speaker 3: a lot of conversations where we're both monogamish, where it's
Speaker 3: if we found ourselves living in the same city, living
Speaker 3: in the same home, totally yeah, like that makes sense,
Speaker 3: Like we want a family, we want kids, Like that
Speaker 3: makes total sense to us. But saying that it's monogamish
Speaker 3: because if we travel, you're overseas, you're somewhere else and
Speaker 3: this is horrible, but people who travel for work are
Speaker 3: very very likely to cheat.
Speaker 2: That's very true, very true.
Speaker 1: It's like like I obviously don't have any status behind that,
Speaker 1: so like, don't come.
Speaker 2: Out, no, it just from my own life, I know
Speaker 2: that that's what happens. And it's also harder to trust
Speaker 2: somebody because you're just not with them every night. You
Speaker 2: can't see what they're doing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like I travel a lot.
Speaker 3: The person I'm hanging out with, we're gonna call him Rhino.
Speaker 3: That's because that's what I called him all through the jungle.
Speaker 3: So Rhino travels a lot. I travel a lot.
Speaker 2: And do you think a relationship now is something you
Speaker 2: factor into your idea of a happy life?
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: Oh, I was like, whoa, Yeah, this actually happened in
Speaker 3: the jungle where I was like, I really miss this person.
Speaker 1: I really want to be with this person.
Speaker 3: I also really want now to not care as much
Speaker 3: about my career, not in the sense that I still
Speaker 3: don't want to be working a lot, but I think
Speaker 3: now there's time to kind of give that other side
Speaker 3: of my life a little bit of love. I am
Speaker 3: thirty now, so I'm starting to think about what that
Speaker 3: kind of looks like, what my future looks like, what
Speaker 3: my family life looks like.
Speaker 1: And yeah, so I would like to meet a person
Speaker 1: and have kids and have a farm.
Speaker 2: And when you think about how you define happiness, you're
Speaker 2: so young now, But if you think about being an
Speaker 2: old man and looking back and thinking I had a
Speaker 2: happy life, what do you think that looked like.
Speaker 3: In the jungle, A few people figured it out. They're like,
Speaker 3: you really just want to cook. I honestly just want
Speaker 3: to cook, Like I want to watch people eat and
Speaker 3: enjoy my food, or cook for themselves and tell me
Speaker 3: that my kids really like this dish.
Speaker 1: Like that is happiness.
Speaker 3: That is actually, if we got rid of everything else
Speaker 3: and we just had people cooking my food and enjoying it,
Speaker 3: that is happiness.
Speaker 2: And why do you think that is? What is it
Speaker 2: about that act and about food? Is it mindfulness? Is
Speaker 2: it actually being in the moment and taking time to
Speaker 2: learn about the things.
Speaker 3: As I was growing up, I said that I spent
Speaker 3: a lot of time in the kitchen with my mom
Speaker 3: and my dad. We cooked a lot together, and I
Speaker 3: remember it being a time where I was really really
Speaker 3: happy because I was spending time with my parents. And
Speaker 3: I think that's where my love of food comes from.
Speaker 3: And I think somewhere in that whole idea, I reckon
Speaker 3: that if other people are cooking, they're probably going to
Speaker 3: be cooking with their friends or their family or their children,
Speaker 3: and the probably going to have these experiences that will
Speaker 3: be lifelong, core memories of happiness for them. I always
Speaker 3: feel this sense of like pride when I've cooked for
Speaker 3: people and they're sitting there and they've enjoyed something that
Speaker 3: I've done. So a lot of the dishes that you'll
Speaker 3: find now that I'm pushing out, all the dishes I'm
Speaker 3: filming are very simple, very quick and no fuss, even
Speaker 3: like my my new series which is Table for One,
Speaker 3: where I just like teach people how to cook for
Speaker 3: themselves and then have it enough just.
Speaker 2: For one exactly, So a challenge that people have when
Speaker 2: you're living on your own. Anything, Oh, I won't cook
Speaker 2: because they'll just be so much waste. Yeah, it's such
Speaker 2: a good idea.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I currently live alone, so I'm like, yes,
Speaker 3: I have this, and then I packed the other leftover
Speaker 3: into a lunch box and I have it for lunch.
Speaker 1: I don't really give it to my concierge, but I
Speaker 1: have it for lunch.
Speaker 2: So I wanted to ask finally about what you think
Speaker 2: about the relationship between success and happiness from a humble
Speaker 2: background in terms of a refugee camp, coming to Australia,
Speaker 2: your family, starting a life again, and now you have
Speaker 2: the kind of success I'm sure you and your family
Speaker 2: could not have even imagined back then. Do you think
Speaker 2: that over that period your happiness has increased or do
Speaker 2: you think that as we become more successful and we
Speaker 2: get more of what we want, our expectations and desires
Speaker 2: just change and we stay about the same in terms
Speaker 2: about how we feel.
Speaker 1: We definitely say the same.
Speaker 3: We definitely say the same because I feel like the
Speaker 3: happiest signs that I remember are my childhood, with my family,
Speaker 3: with my sister.
Speaker 1: I'm sitting on the counter with my mom cooking.
Speaker 2: But do you think when you look at your life
Speaker 2: and you think about the things that you've really wanted
Speaker 2: and then getting them, Yeah, have you noticed that there's
Speaker 2: complexity there?
Speaker 3: I have mentioned her like twenty four times for Sarah
Speaker 3: and I have these very in depth conversations where we've
Speaker 3: gone walks and we just talk about our entire life.
Speaker 3: We complain about things that we're not supposed to complain about,
Speaker 3: but we can to each other. Yeah, And one of
Speaker 3: the complaints are that it's kind of ridiculous that we've
Speaker 3: gone to a stage in our life where we have goals.
Speaker 3: We have these goals that are huge goals that we
Speaker 3: might have told each other two years, three years before,
Speaker 3: and then we achieve those goals. We achieve those goals
Speaker 3: and we'll go yay for about five seconds, and then
Speaker 3: we go what's next, and we move on, and it's like,
Speaker 3: wait a minute, why wasn't I super excited that I
Speaker 3: am the Australian ambassador for AMEX and I have been
Speaker 3: for two years. Like that's crazy. Like I have my
Speaker 3: own TV show, crazy. I have one cookbook but a
Speaker 3: deal to do three more insane. I have the opportunity
Speaker 3: to do another TV show. I've been given a timeslot.
Speaker 3: All I have to do is make the co for it.
Speaker 3: And yet I don't celebrate any of these things. I
Speaker 3: just go, Okay, cool, what's next.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 2: It's just a treadmill of just yep, yep, yep, yep, yep,
Speaker 2: and then your baseline changes of what it feels like
Speaker 2: you need in order to feel satisfied.
Speaker 3: This is why I think what I really want is
Speaker 3: that family, that life, because I'm like, right now, I
Speaker 3: am only just kicking these goals because I am searching
Speaker 3: for something, like I can't get what I really want,
Speaker 3: so instead I'm like, yeah, I don't need anything.
Speaker 1: I'm just going to become like a multi millionaire and travel.
Speaker 3: The world and just like eat food and like wear
Speaker 3: nice clothes and be tanned all the time.
Speaker 2: But if you got all those things, would you feel empty?
Speaker 2: Would there be something missing?
Speaker 3: I reckon you would, yeah, because I think that, Like,
Speaker 3: I just want to cook for my family every single meal,
Speaker 3: every breakfast, every lunch and every dinner, and be sad
Speaker 3: when my kids tell me that they don't want something
Speaker 3: that would make them for lunch.
Speaker 2: That's all about Yeah, Khan, You're loved by the Australian public.
Speaker 2: You've built a career I'm sure you could have only
Speaker 2: dreamed of when you're a kid, and it feels like
Speaker 2: you truly get to do what you love and your
Speaker 2: passion is palpable. But are you happy?
Speaker 3: I am happy to an extent Like this whole time
Speaker 3: I've spoken, you can tell that I'm a pretty happy person.
Speaker 3: I'm very happy. I'm very fortunate. I'm very thankful for
Speaker 3: everything I have. The only thing that's missing for me
Speaker 3: are the kids. Yeah, I think, But I don't think
Speaker 3: I'm at that stage of my life yet where that
Speaker 3: is going to rip my soul apart right now. It's
Speaker 3: really I need to start thinking about it. I need
Speaker 3: to start working out whether I be adopting, whether it
Speaker 3: would be surrogacy, or whatever way that I want to
Speaker 3: have children. I think this is now when I really
Speaker 3: need to start think about it and actually dedicate some
Speaker 3: time to sit down and map it out, because it's
Speaker 3: not just going to happen, especially for a homosexual man.
Speaker 1: It's not just going to happen. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: just feel pregnant. You never know.
Speaker 2: This was such an enlightening conversation because you can see
Speaker 2: in Karn a human experience that's universal. The stuff he
Speaker 2: struggles with is both the big stuff and the little stuff.
Speaker 2: It's being a kid and not feeling like you fit
Speaker 2: in because you don't have a cultural context that matches
Speaker 2: your peers, because you weren't born in a hospital in
Speaker 2: the next suburb, but in a refugee camp. And it's
Speaker 2: also second guessing everything about yourself because you were cheated on.
Speaker 2: And it's also deciding you want to have kids and
Speaker 2: not knowing how you're going to make that happen. He
Speaker 2: also shows how the things we think are going to
Speaker 2: go wrong and are going to be hard and upsetting
Speaker 2: sometimes surprise us. For him, it was thinking that his
Speaker 2: mum was going to react badly to him opening up
Speaker 2: about his sexuality and then discovering that he was wrong
Speaker 2: about that, and also going into the jungle and meeting
Speaker 2: people who he was wrong about, people he had preconceived
Speaker 2: judgments about, and how connecting with those people is an
Speaker 2: enormous source of happiness. Join me next week for a
Speaker 2: chat with radio host, podcaster, media personality and writer Laura Burrn.
Speaker 2: We talk about how she dealt with scrutiny about her
Speaker 2: appearance during a time when she should have felt confident
Speaker 2: and in love, and how giving birth to her first
Speaker 2: baby was nothing like what she expected.
Speaker 6: And Matt was in the kitchen with Marley, and I
Speaker 6: was sitting on the side of the bed and you know,
Speaker 6: he like massive pads and you want a pillow, booms
Speaker 6: her everything. You're just like, haven't slept in two days.
Speaker 6: The emotions really hit you. And she was in the
Speaker 6: little bassinet next to the bed, and I remember sitting
Speaker 6: there looking at her and I was like, we have
Speaker 6: ruined our lives.
Speaker 2: On last week's episode, I spoke with media personality, youth worker, podcaster,
Speaker 2: and author Brook Blurton about processing trauma, balancing the pursuit
Speaker 2: of individual happiness with the needs and struggles of your community,
Speaker 2: and the moment you found love on national television and
Speaker 2: received news of a personal tragedy at the same time.
Speaker 2: There's a link in the show notes to listen to
Speaker 2: that episode. If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave us
Speaker 2: a review. It really helps people to find us. And
Speaker 2: if you'd like to suggest someone for the podcast, we
Speaker 2: love suggestions, so you can email us here at podcast
Speaker 2: at mummeya dot com dot au, or find me on
Speaker 2: Instagram and send me a message at Claire dot Stevens.
Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Tarlie Blackman, with audio production
Speaker 2: by Scott Stronik. See you next week.