1 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 2: Mama Me. I acknowledges the traditional owners of the land 3 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 2: and waters that this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 3: And I thought tic tik tik tik tik, being like, 5 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 3: oh my god, this is amazing. I've got my first 6 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 3: actual travel TV show and this is amazing. And all 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 3: I could remember is sitting there going why do I 8 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 3: look so overweight? What is going on with my skin? 9 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 3: What is going on with my hair? Why I'm a 10 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 3: mannerisms like that? Is this why I'm single? 11 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to But Are You Happy? The podcast 12 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 2: that asks the questions you've always wanted to know from 13 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 2: the people who appear to have it all. Karnong is 14 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 2: an immensely talented chef and media personality who you may 15 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 2: have seen on shows like Master Chef, Survivor and more 16 00:01:04,399 --> 00:01:07,320 Speaker 2: recently on I'm a Celebrity, Get Me out of Here. 17 00:01:08,399 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 2: But Karan's life began in an Indonesian refugee camp. His 18 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 2: parents made the journey to Australia by boat, where they 19 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 2: were attacked by pirates and had propellers break in shark 20 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 2: infested waters. When he was in year ten, he lost 21 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 2: his dad, which shook his family to their core. 22 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 3: He found out a year and a half before we 23 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 3: found out, but he thought that there is no time 24 00:01:33,399 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 3: to deal with this. I have a year and a half, 25 00:01:35,479 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 3: two years, three years to build a business strong enough 26 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 3: so that my family will be fine. 27 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 2: We talk about how even in the moments where you 28 00:01:44,399 --> 00:01:48,919 Speaker 2: get at all, things don't necessarily feel right. The truth is, 29 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 2: if you're not okay because of your mental health or 30 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 2: a breakup or low self esteem, you don't suddenly become 31 00:01:55,559 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: confident just because the country adores you. Here's my chat 32 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 2: with Khanong. Khanong, you're one of Australia's most adored TV personalities. 33 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: You're a cook and an author, and you've appeared on 34 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 2: Master Chef and Survivor. You have your own show on 35 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 2: SBS Food called Carnung's Wild Food, and you've published a cookbook, 36 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 2: A Gays Guide to Life, Love and Food. Most recently, 37 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 2: you've come out of the South African jungle for I'm 38 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 2: a celebrity, Get me out of here. But putting aside 39 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 2: everything we can see from the outside, what's the reality 40 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 2: of your life right now? 41 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 3: Firstly, can you tell how awkward I got when you 42 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 3: were reading that I am not a words of affirmation 43 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 3: kind of person. 44 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 4: That is not my love language. I just like become like, ah, 45 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 4: thank you so much. And I do not know how 46 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 4: to deal with people telling me things that I've done. 47 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 4: The reality is that everything is a lot of work. 48 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 3: I feel as though people look at my socials and 49 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 3: they're like, all he does is cook and he's smiling 50 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 3: and he's happy. 51 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: But it's like schedules. 52 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 3: It's all schedules, and it's like every single bit of 53 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 3: my life is down to half an hour blocks, which 54 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 3: I love because I like to stay busy. That's my 55 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 3: whole thing. I've grown up with parents that are they 56 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 3: work very hard. So for me, I'm like, if I'm 57 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 3: not doing something, I'm not working. Like if I'm staying 58 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 3: still right now, I'm not working. And I need to 59 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 3: be working because my mom and dad like came over 60 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 3: here to give me opportunities for me to like better 61 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 3: my life. 62 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: I need to better my life. 63 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 2: I think that's such a good point to make that 64 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 2: when you are a person of your profile and who 65 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 2: is leaning in to so many opportunities, it's not all 66 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 2: fun and it is a whole lot of work that 67 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 2: people don't see. 68 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 3: But you can't talk about it and you can't complain 69 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 3: about it, and you can't say anything. It's fun, yeah, 70 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 3: because it's like, well, I'm sorry that you get to 71 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 3: you know, fly everywhere and film like content and like 72 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 3: see new things or like do I'm a celeb or 73 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 3: like you get to meet these amazing people you can't 74 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 3: complain and I'm like, yeah, but it's also like really. 75 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: Stressful sometimes and sometimes I'm tired. 76 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I'm sorry that I'm like, but I feel 77 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 3: like everyone's allowed to complain because if you've I feel 78 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 3: a certain way, no one can take that away. 79 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 2: From you, right exactly. And you were just in the jungle, Well, 80 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 2: I'm a celebrity and you were with reality stars and 81 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 2: actors and TV presenters and sports people and comedians. Tell 82 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 2: me about the experience of being in the jungle. 83 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 3: Let's just say I loved it so much, and it's 84 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 3: my favorite show that I've been on. Like I loved 85 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 3: Master Chef because it gave me a career survivor I 86 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 3: was a fan of, so I really wanted to do it. 87 00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 3: I'm a celeb was a totally different beast where I 88 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 3: met all these people and I learned so much about 89 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 3: their lives, their families, but mostly it's a program where 90 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 3: there's a lot of downtime. And because there is so 91 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 3: much downtime, it was a moment for me for three 92 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 3: and a half weeks to kind of literally take myself 93 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 3: away from my real world and go, what do I 94 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 3: need right now? What do I want? What is missing? 95 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 3: And I think that's why I loved it so much. 96 00:05:06,280 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 2: Because you don't have a phone, you don't have any 97 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 2: of the distractions of modern life. I mean, I look 98 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 2: at it and I couldn't do any of the challenges. 99 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 2: I'd be absolutely hopeless. But there is something actually quite 100 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: profound about in this day and age going to the 101 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 2: jungle yep, only socially interacting with people in real life, 102 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 2: not having any of the busyness that usually gets us 103 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 2: through the day. How did you come out feeling? 104 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 3: First of all, I think that you could do the challenges, 105 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 3: because I thought that I couldn't do the challenges, the trials, 106 00:05:40,280 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 3: But I feel like when you're in a space like that, 107 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 3: you just have to do it because you don't want 108 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 3: to let anyone down. 109 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 1: When I came out of the jungle, I felt really refreshed. 110 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 3: It wasn't the lack of phone or emails or friends, 111 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 3: family like work. But it was the idea that I 112 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 3: had time to really think about what my career looked like, 113 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 3: what I wanted it to be, and how I wanted 114 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 3: to change it so that I can do multiple things 115 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 3: at the same time, but also have more time to myself. 116 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 3: Because I found that being in the jungle, I realized 117 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 3: that I do need a lot more downtime then I 118 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 3: really thought that I did. Saying that today I have 119 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 3: like this zero downtown, I'm like, oh my god, I 120 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 3: learned that I need more downtime and that's not going 121 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 3: to happen until ten thirty at nine. 122 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: It's currently eight fifteen in the morning. 123 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 2: And was there anybody that you met in jungle who 124 00:06:30,280 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 2: was very different to what you expected? 125 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: Candice Wuna? 126 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 2: How was she different? 127 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 3: Candace Wuner is portrayed in the Australian media as this 128 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 3: hard exterior, this woman. She's an iron woman live, She's 129 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 3: super strong, she is nurturing, she loves her kids so much. 130 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 3: She only cares about her family. I was able to 131 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 3: have full conversations with her where she was really motherly 132 00:07:00,840 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 3: towards me and I really clicked with her From day 133 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 3: three or four where I went, oh my god, I 134 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 3: really really love you. I don't think this aired, but 135 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 3: there was a moment where cooked together and she was 136 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 3: talking about her husband and her kids and how hard 137 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 3: it was to be pregnant and flying to London at 138 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 3: the time because the word cup was on and she 139 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 3: was giving birth and she wasn't really allowed to see 140 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 3: her husband during it because they have no partner band. 141 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: And I went to the talking cried for half an hour. 142 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 5: They didn't, but I was just like this woman, Like 143 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 5: she just looks so strong, but there's all of these 144 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 5: things that she's gone through that people don't even know 145 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 5: about because all they see is like this hard exterior. 146 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 2: It must be really fascinating to get to know the 147 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 2: human being behind the image, because all of those people 148 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 2: in the jungle you know to some extent. And what 149 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: I've always found fascinating is that sometimes it's the people 150 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 2: you think you'll get along with that you don't necessarily, 151 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 2: and the people that you think you'll have nothing in 152 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 2: common with that you weirdly bond with. 153 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 3: It's so odd and Pete as well, like Pete's like 154 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 3: an AFL legend. Yeah, Like and I was like Okay, 155 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 3: well we're going to talk about like there's a generational 156 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 3: gap here, and also you're like AFL and like I 157 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 3: know nothing. Yeah, but again it was a family connection 158 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 3: where we spoke about like his family, his kids, his partner. 159 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 3: And it's those moments that I went, no one cares 160 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 3: about the Korea cares, No one cares about what you 161 00:08:32,079 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 3: do for a living. It all comes down to everyone 162 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 3: is here for their family. Everyone just wants to live 163 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 3: for their family and their loved ones. 164 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 2: And it's also a good reminder that you're right, it's 165 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 2: not what anybody cares about or talks about in actual life. 166 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. 167 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 2: It's weird that I think, because we're often so obsessed 168 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 2: with just having a really shiny version of ourselves that 169 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 2: the world sees when you connect with another human being, 170 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 2: you're never talking about the superficial stuff. Yeah. 171 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 3: It's also I find that it's this like label that 172 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 3: everyone gets given. You get smashed with a label and 173 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 3: everyone goes, that is you, that is who you are. 174 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 3: But there's also like forty five million layers behind that 175 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 3: that no one talks about because it's too hard to 176 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 3: because it's like, well, no, if you're not the aofl legend. 177 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: Who are you? 178 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot more complicated to get your head around. 179 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 2: We often ask on this show about a time the 180 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 2: world told you you'd be happy and you weren't, And 181 00:09:28,560 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 2: one of those times for you is actually right now. 182 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 3: Yes, I am very happy. Yes I've got a lot 183 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 3: of things going on in my life. But when I 184 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 3: was in the jungle, when I was talking to everyone, 185 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 3: I was like, I really want kids, and I've always 186 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 3: really want kids, but I think it's kind of right 187 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:54,959 Speaker 3: now that I'm thinking I need to start that process now, Like, 188 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 3: if I really do want kids, I need to start 189 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 3: that process now. And the idea that scares me and 190 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 3: makes me really upset is that I possibly might not 191 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 3: have them. 192 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 2: You're so right the thing about kids, because I have 193 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 2: just had a little question and it's a weirdly intentional decision. 194 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 2: It's for some reason. I think when you're growing up 195 00:10:16,680 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 2: you think it will just happen, But even woman heterosexual relationship, 196 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 2: it's really intentional. There's a moment where you have to 197 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 2: be like, oh, we have to decide that we want 198 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 2: to do this thing that we know is going to 199 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 2: change our lives. And for you, obviously it's thinking about 200 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 2: how we go about that. Am I going to do 201 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 2: that with my current partner? And so are you feeling 202 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 2: a sense of urgency? 203 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I am feeling a sense of urgency. 204 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 3: I'm at an age where, look, I probably still have 205 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 3: five or six years before it becomes very, very urgent. 206 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 3: But it's that idea of possibly ever having them that 207 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 3: is really scaring me right now. I always grew up 208 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 3: picturing myself with the farm, with the chickens and with 209 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 3: the kids, and you're completely right in your mind as 210 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 3: a child, you think it's just going to happen. And 211 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't know how that it's going to 212 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 3: happen right now, And I don't even know who that's 213 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 3: going to happen with. If I want to do it 214 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 3: with someone else, or if I do this alone, how 215 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 3: do I make that work? 216 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: It is a thirty We cannot cry in the morning. 217 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 3: When I was thinking about that, I was like, it's 218 00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 3: the one thing that constantly is now in the back 219 00:11:27,560 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 3: of my mind, and it's like, when are you going 220 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 3: to do this? 221 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: You don't have time to write your next book. 222 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,079 Speaker 3: The kids are a massive one, Like you have to 223 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 3: sit down and actually really think about this, so right 224 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 3: now is the moment that I should be happy. But 225 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 3: there's this little thing in the back that is just 226 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 3: constantly there. 227 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 2: There's so much honesty to that, and it's such a 228 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 2: reminder that from the outside it can look like someone 229 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 2: has everything, but there can be something really quiet that 230 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 2: they secretly wish that they had. 231 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 6: Yeah. 232 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 3: A lot of my friends have just had children. Sarah Holloway. 233 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, she just had a baby. 234 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 3: Yes, she had a baby an hour before I went 235 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 3: into the jungle. No after I went into the jungle, 236 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 3: and she was looking after my social she's my best friend. 237 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and she's like calmed, you handed your phone over, 238 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 3: And then the. 239 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: Baby came and I just didn't know what to do. 240 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I missed the birthy 241 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: literally like an hour. 242 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. 243 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,199 Speaker 3: But like I see kids now, and I see babies 244 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 3: and they just make me smile y. Yeah, Like I 245 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 3: just get really really happy with seeing Europe this potato 246 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 3: that does nothing all day. 247 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 2: They're so funny. It's really hard to explain it. My 248 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 2: partner and I have said it reminds us of the 249 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 2: Matrix and like the Red pill and the Blue pill, 250 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 2: and once you have a kid. It's a bit like 251 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 2: you've chosen to take whichever the pill is that shows 252 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 2: you reality. Yeah, and you can't explain it to anybody else. 253 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 2: It's just a feeling, yeah, and like a knowing that 254 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 2: there's this amazing sense of meaning and that's it's not 255 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 2: for everyone. And actually having a child has made me realize, Yeah, 256 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 2: I don't think everyone should be a parent. It's really hard, 257 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 2: but I understand that longing that. 258 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: I want to make them dinners that they won't want 259 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: to eat. 260 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 3: I want them to I want to take them places 261 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 3: and they're just going to shut tantrums and just really 262 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 3: test me, like I want. I get jealous to see 263 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 3: all of the things that my friends have to go through, 264 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 3: which look painful, but to me, I'm. 265 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 2: Like, I want that. After the break, Khan opens up 266 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 2: about his childhood, including his mom's unexpected reaction when he 267 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 2: came out to her. He also talks about losing his 268 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 2: dad and the secret his dad kept from their family. 269 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 2: You were born in an Indonesian refugee camp, and you 270 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 2: spent the first two years of your life there. Tell 271 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 2: me what you know about what your parents' lives looked 272 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 2: like at that time. 273 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 3: So mom and Dad went to Indonesia. That's where the 274 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 3: refugee camp was via boat. I think they got caught 275 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 3: by authorities in Malaysian waters and were then escorted to Indonesia. 276 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 3: But I think the whole idea behind leaving Vietnam was 277 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 3: not to make it to Australia or make it anywhere, 278 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 3: but it was just to be caught outside of Vietnamese 279 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 3: waters so that then you can get processed. So they 280 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 3: ended up in Indonesia in a place called Going, which 281 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 3: I recently researched because I think I'm trying to organize 282 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 3: to get my mum back there. 283 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: Oh wow. 284 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 3: It's an island that had mostly Vino Meis refugees that 285 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 3: were being processed for Germany, the US, Canada, Australia, and 286 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 3: there were thousands and thousands there at the same time. 287 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 3: I don't think it's the same way that people think 288 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 3: of refugee camps now. It's not so much prison line. 289 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 3: It's an island with like houses and uts and things 290 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 3: like that. Everyone kind of had like jobs within the community. 291 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 3: So Mum was a seamstress. Dad chopped wood, but also 292 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 3: so collected snakes because there were snakes all over the 293 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 3: Island and apparently he went and he would wrangle them 294 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 3: and that was part of what he did for a living. 295 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 3: But yeah, life in the refugee acount was a very 296 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 3: different where you kind of did make a living. 297 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: You were like exchanging skills and things like that. 298 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 3: There's photos that I've seen of them with like friends 299 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 3: they traveled with and stuff like that. 300 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: That were Yeah, but they were there for four years. 301 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 3: Then basically it's a system where once you get processed, 302 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 3: you go to a country. That system is really once 303 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 3: you have enough money to get processed, you go to 304 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 3: a country where it's like you have like you got 305 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 3: to pay for the paperwork, you got to pay for 306 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 3: certain things, but it's really the money that gets you somewhere. 307 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 3: So it did require a lot of our extended family 308 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 3: chipping in to get them processed to come to Australia. 309 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 3: So they came to Australia when I was two. We 310 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 3: were living with an auntie who was not really my auntie. 311 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 3: We just shared the same last name, which is how 312 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 3: it amuse people work if you've got the same last 313 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 3: name your family. We moved to Southeast suburbs of Melbourne. 314 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 3: Dad opened his first butcher shop, put all his money 315 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 3: in to do that. Mum was working still as the 316 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 3: seamstress at night doing samples and stuff, but during the 317 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 3: day would help at. 318 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: The butcher shop. 319 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 3: They would work, They were workhorses. We didn't spend a 320 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 3: lot of time together, which is not their fault. They 321 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 3: worked and the time that I would spend with Mum 322 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 3: and Dad would be after hours in the kitchen where 323 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 3: they would do brief about their day and I remember 324 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 3: sitting on the kitchen counter like that's just what I did. 325 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 2: And as you started to grow up in Australia, do 326 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 2: you remember that as being a happy childhood. 327 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: I do. 328 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 3: I think it's because I grew up in Swing Vale, 329 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 3: which is a very Vitnamese area, Like everyone was pretty 330 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 3: much Vitamise, where I went to a primary school and 331 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 3: it wasn't until like I went to high school that 332 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 3: I even knew that I was potentially a little bit different. 333 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 3: In high school, there were little things like it's a 334 00:17:06,159 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 3: name that like we shorten as Australians, but I didn't 335 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 3: even think about it. It was like probably like Nathaniel 336 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 3: and Nathan or something like that. It's something stupid where 337 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 3: a longer name is short into a tiny name, and 338 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 3: I remember reading books and that never made sense to me. 339 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 1: So it was like Daniel and Dan, I was like 340 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 1: I never understood that. 341 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 2: Or like William and Billy. Yeah, never understood It's like 342 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 2: what but yeah, it's only through that being in your 343 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,360 Speaker 2: family or whatever that actually starts to make sure. 344 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and my parents don't speak English. 345 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 3: Mum speaks English Ish now, so I didn't grow up 346 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 3: with all like these nuances of like language and things 347 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 3: that would make sense to me. And there was even 348 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 3: other little things that made me feel different where I remember, 349 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 3: in just seven, we were playing cricket or we were 350 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 3: being taught how to play cricket, and I just didn't 351 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 3: know if once I hit the wall, I had to 352 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 3: run or not, and just like and it's like little 353 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 3: things like that where no one explains that to. 354 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 2: You, but the others will have just had it on 355 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 2: the background on the TV for their whole childhood. Yeah, 356 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,479 Speaker 2: and so it goes without saying to them, Yeah, what 357 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 2: you do? I mean, I actually don't know if i'd 358 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 2: run on, but yeah, I can imagine there's a little 359 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 2: boy You're like, hold on. 360 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 3: A second, yeah, And I have no idea, And then 361 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 3: like I feel embarrassed to usk like we would be 362 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 3: like playing football and I'm like, okay, cool, so you 363 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 3: kick the ball, you handle the ball, you can't throw 364 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 3: the ball. Why can't you throw the ball? Like, I 365 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 3: just don't understand any of these rules. And these are 366 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 3: the little things that I feel like immigrants go through 367 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 3: that no one ever even talks about. Like it's these 368 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 3: little tiny things that makes me feel like an idiot. 369 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 3: And it's things that I still remember from my childhood 370 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 3: that isn't really that big of a deal, but at 371 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 3: that moment for me, it is a big deal because 372 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 3: I feel super dumb. 373 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, and as you're growing up, you're getting this sense 374 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 2: that there's something different and then you start to come 375 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 2: to terms with this textuality. So what age were you 376 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 2: when you start to think about that? 377 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: There were multiple times. The first time. 378 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 3: Was year eight, Yeah, year eight where I went to 379 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 3: a Hailarbry, a parallel education where boys go to boys classes, 380 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 3: girls go to girls classes. We spend recess and lunches together. 381 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 3: So I felt really comfortable at that school. Came out 382 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 3: all good friends, no problems. Changed schools. Went to Melbourne High. 383 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 3: It's a very Vinamese family thing where they want you 384 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 3: to go to Melbourne High School because it's a selective school. 385 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 3: It costs nothing, and it's like they take like the 386 00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 3: top two percent of every other high school got in. 387 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 3: Mom and dad are so happy with me. I fucking 388 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 3: hated it. I remember I went to Melbourne High. I 389 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 3: was commuting. It would take me from the moment of 390 00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 3: waking up to get to school about an hour and 391 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 3: fifteen minutes and it was every day walking up this 392 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 3: hill going home an hour of fifteen minutes sitting on 393 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 3: the train. Everyone was really really academic. 394 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 2: But it's pretty incredible to come from not speaking English 395 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 2: at home to then getting into a really competitive selective school. 396 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 2: Like that's some natural intelligence, but that's also bloody hard work. 397 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 3: Okay, so I'm going to let you in on a 398 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 3: little secret. My mum and dad they know exactly how 399 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 3: to work me. Mum still knows how to work me. 400 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 3: And basically it was like, Okay, if you get into 401 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 3: this school, you can go to Vietnam every year, I 402 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 3: don't know, holiday during school holidays. And I was like, 403 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 3: oh yeah, cool, done. So it was like always little 404 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 3: rewards for me. 405 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 2: Side note, where in Vietnam where you from originally? 406 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 3: So It is the southern tip of Vietnam, a town 407 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 3: called Gamau Fishing Village, really small. Grammar and granddads still 408 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 3: live there. I've still got some uncles and aunties there. 409 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 3: I do visit from time to time. It is really 410 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 3: beautiful on the Mekong Delta, about eight hours drive south 411 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 3: of Hochimun City. 412 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: Oh gorgeous. 413 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 4: Yeah. 414 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 1: I love Vitnam. 415 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 3: Then Mum and dad said, do you know what if 416 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,880 Speaker 3: you want to go back to Haylarbury, it's one way 417 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:11,479 Speaker 3: you can do it, and you just have to make 418 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 3: the schooling equal, so like the cost has to. 419 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: Be the same. And I was like, how the hell 420 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 1: am I going to do that? 421 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 3: So I started applying for different scholarships at Halearbury and 422 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 3: I got a general Excellence and then that wasn't enough, 423 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 3: so I sat academic exam and that got me the 424 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 3: rest of it, and so my schooling became free. Yeah, 425 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 3: and so Mum and Dad allowed me to come back 426 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 3: to Halebury and it was the best thing ever because 427 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 3: I feel so at home at that school. I am 428 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 3: obsessed with the school, I'm obsessed with the alumni. I 429 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 3: will send my kids there in a heartbeat. I felt 430 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 3: totally supported for being gay for everything, Like they just 431 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 3: were really nurtury. 432 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 2: When you do start thinking about your sexuality, do you 433 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 2: think about having to share it publicly or are you 434 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 2: trying to work it out privately. 435 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 3: So I came out when in your eight, went back 436 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 3: in the closet when I went to almaheen ' nine. 437 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 3: Came back out at the end of nine because I 438 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 3: went back to Hillary. But it wasn't really something that 439 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:16,959 Speaker 3: I had to share with the public. It was just 440 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 3: like something that I was exploring with my friends at 441 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 3: school to be like, oh, yeah, I'm interested in these guys, 442 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 3: blah blah blah blah blah whatever. It never became a 443 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 3: big thing until it came to the point where I 444 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 3: had to speak to like my mom about it. Sorry, 445 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 3: there's a lot going on in this whole period of 446 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 3: my life. My father passed away when I was sixteen 447 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 3: and I was towards the end of year ten, and 448 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 3: that really pivoted my entire life where I no longer 449 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 3: wanted to be a plastic surgeon. I wanted to dive 450 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 3: headfirst into fashion. At the same time Mom and I 451 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 3: were not getting along. I went back to school after 452 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 3: dad died the day after and just did the normal thing, 453 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 3: didn't really give it too much thought, life went on 454 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 3: as normal. 455 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: I didn't deal with it. 456 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 3: I basically just didn't deal with dad dying, and so 457 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 3: I took it out on mom, and I took out 458 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 3: our mom for a couple of years. When I was eighteen, 459 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 3: towards the end of year twelve, I remember I was 460 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 3: sitting in the car with her and she was like, 461 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 3: I started hanging out with someone. I was like, I 462 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 3: don't want to talk about it. She's like, oh, what 463 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 3: would you think about me daddy? I was like, I 464 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 3: don't want to talk about it, and that kent went 465 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 3: on for about four or five I don't want to 466 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 3: talk about it until I decided to open the door 467 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 3: of the car and roll out. 468 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I am horrific. Like I was a 469 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: horrific teenager. 470 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 2: I mean, you were going through a lot at the 471 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 2: same time, but that is a scary thing to do. Yeah. 472 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 3: I literally was like, I would rather roll out of 473 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 3: this movie car than continue to have this conversation with you. Anyway, 474 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 3: totally regretted that because I had to walk home for 475 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 3: three kilometers. So I'm walking home and but that really 476 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 3: just changed our relationship where Mum didn't feel comfortable speaking 477 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 3: to me anymore. I just didn't want to talk to 478 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 3: her anymore. I hadn't come out of that point to 479 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,640 Speaker 3: my family, and I ran away, not from home, but. 480 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,959 Speaker 1: Like I ran away in the senses. I moved to 481 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: London to study fashion. 482 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 3: Just before I decided that I'm going going to run 483 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 3: to London and like run away from my mother, I 484 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 3: thought that I would weaponize my sexuality. 485 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 2: Oh wow, Yeah. 486 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 3: Which is like insane and like not the normal coming 487 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 3: out story where I just literally sat in front of her. 488 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, I want another fight, and I reckon 489 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 3: that if I come out now, there will be a fight. 490 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 2: I've never heard someone say that, but that is such 491 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,719 Speaker 2: a authentically teenage thing to do. 492 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, And like I did struggle with ever talking about 493 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 3: this because it makes me fucking sound like the worst 494 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 3: person ever. That I literally sat there and was like, 495 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 3: I'm going to weaponize coming out. So I sat down 496 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 3: and I said I wasn't even like very calm about it. 497 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 3: I was like, hey, yes, I have something to tell you. 498 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 3: I'm gay, like guys, And I just like watched her 499 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 3: for a bit and she was. 500 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: Like, how do you feel about going to vi Nam? 501 00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 1: And I was like, what. 502 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 2: A separate question? 503 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 1: Yeah? 504 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 3: In my mind, I was like, okay, so she's going 505 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 3: to send me to like some kind of camp where 506 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 3: they rehabilitate me into not being gay. Instead, my mom 507 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 3: goes the community is very big in Vietnam. You can 508 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 3: probably make a really good career there. You might become 509 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 3: quite famous. 510 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: And I'm like, excuse. 511 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 2: Me, It's like you were meant to be angry. 512 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, you were meant to be angry. You were meant 513 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 3: to be like sad. You were meant to do something 514 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 3: that would cause me to fight you. Instead, I'm laughing. 515 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm sorry. So your answer to me being 516 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 3: a homosexual is that you would like me to go 517 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 3: to Vietnam and try and become famous. I love it, 518 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 3: and I literally I love her like I love like. 519 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 3: My mom and I are really close now. But I've 520 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 3: like because after that, I was like, Okay, well, I 521 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 3: can't really do anything wrong. 522 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: My mom loves me, damn it. Yeah. 523 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 3: Wow, my coming out story wasn't a sad one. No, 524 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 3: She's always been really supportive. But I flew to London 525 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 3: to do my UNI there at Saint Martin's and it 526 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 3: was hell for me. 527 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: I couldn't afford to do anything. 528 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 3: I was making like five pound an hour working like 529 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 3: minimum els because you can't even work for time there 530 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 3: as a student, So I couldn't pay for rent, I 531 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 3: couldn't pay for food, and I couldn't pay to do anything, 532 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 3: and I couldn't pay for my schooling. I think Mum 533 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 3: was helping with the schooling at the time, but still 534 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 3: it was not enough money to do anything. So I 535 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 3: decided that I was going to come back and try 536 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 3: and do fashion school here. But to come back, I 537 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 3: was like, hey, Mom, I don't think I can live 538 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,959 Speaker 3: with you. I think for our relationship to now work, 539 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 3: I have to live outside of this house. And I 540 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 3: pretty much apologized to her and I said, you know, 541 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 3: the last three years, I've been pretty braddy. I was 542 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 3: just not a nice person. I was not a nice kid, 543 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 3: Like obviously there's the whole dad thing, but I feel 544 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 3: really guilty about it a lot, and I've spoken to 545 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 3: her about it a lot, and she was like, you're 546 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 3: like seventeen, like it's expected for you to just be hard. 547 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,919 Speaker 3: But yeah, became really close after that. When I apologized 548 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 3: and I was like, I'm like, I'm really sorry. You're 549 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 3: allowed to see whoever you want. Like you are still young. 550 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 2: When you're looking at a parent, I can see how 551 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 2: you think, no, no, your only job is to be 552 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 2: my mom. 553 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 554 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, And so I was just like, that was a 555 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 3: ridiculous reaction of me to have about you dating. 556 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: And since then. 557 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 3: We've been really, really good. I try to see my mom. 558 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 3: Over the past ten years, I try to see her 559 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 3: every week. Over the past three years, it has become 560 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,880 Speaker 3: every second week because it's been a little bit busier, 561 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 3: but I speak to her pretty much two three times 562 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 3: a week. 563 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 2: I love how you tried to be rejected by your mother. 564 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 2: She's like, I accept you. So you were in year 565 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 2: ten when your dad passed away. Yes, he was sick. Yeah, 566 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 2: And is it true that he didn't tell dad. 567 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: My father had started the butcher shop. 568 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 3: My father had hap bee from Vietnam, just like from 569 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 3: being like in poverty. He had hep B, which then 570 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 3: changed to liver cancer. Yeah, progress it became liver cancer. 571 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 3: He found out about a year and a half before 572 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 3: we found out. He found out about it, but he 573 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 3: thought that there is no time to deal with this. 574 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 3: I have a year and a half, two years, three 575 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 3: years to build a business strong enough so that my 576 00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 3: family will be fine. 577 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 2: Oh there's nothing more self like heartbreaking. 578 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 3: It's so ridiculous, Like I don't think I could do 579 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:31,919 Speaker 3: something like that, but yeah, I remember when I was sixteen, seventeen, 580 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 3: eighteen and he had passed away. I think the reason 581 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:35,719 Speaker 3: why I wasn't dealing with it was I was kind 582 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 3: of pissed off as well that my father literally kept 583 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 3: like this massive secret from the entire family. And yes, 584 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,479 Speaker 3: it's a very self list thing to do, but I 585 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 3: thought it was also a very selfish thing to do, 586 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 3: especially because I'm like, my sister is nine, and instead 587 00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 3: of trying to take care of your health, you may 588 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 3: leave a nine year old without a father. 589 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, and not sharing it meant there was 590 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 2: less time for everyone to just be aware of it 591 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 2: and spend as a family. I know, yeah, and know 592 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 2: that this was potentially the end. 593 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, But the crazy thing is if dad didn't do that, 594 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 3: Mum wouldn't have the life that she currently has. And 595 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 3: so I'm like, Okay, that's horrific and like a horrible, 596 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 3: like just a shit thing to do. But at the 597 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 3: same time, I kind of see why you did it, 598 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 3: because this is exactly what he wanted. 599 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, And what was it like to actually lose him? 600 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 2: Were you in the room? 601 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 6: Yeah? 602 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: I was in the room. 603 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 3: Were in the My mom, once she had found out, 604 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 3: decided that she would do everything, and when I say everything, 605 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 3: I mean everything to try and fix it, like that 606 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 3: was her thing where it was like modern medicine wasn't working, 607 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 3: Western medicine wasn't working. We're gonna see witch doctors. Dad 608 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 3: was so against it. He was like, I'm weak, blah 609 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 3: blah blah. I don't want to die and be dumb, 610 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 3: like I don't want to passway. And so the night 611 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 3: before we were supposed to fly to Vietnam, we were 612 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 3: all sitting like in the mountain room like packing, dealing 613 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 3: with that, like our passports. That was the night the 614 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 3: dad passed away. Wow, And it was just him going, 615 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 3: I'm not going at it. 616 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: M yeah, I'm not leaving, like I'm not doing this. 617 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 3: It happened also fast, but also so slow that I 618 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 3: was just like I didn't even know that he was 619 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 3: actually dying. 620 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: Like it was like I think he went into a 621 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: hahjack from it. 622 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 3: And then we called the ambulance they came blah blah blah, 623 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 3: but he was gone. But I didn't even really register 624 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 3: to me that my dad wasn't there anymore. That it 625 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 3: was like I'm like, no, no, Like you watch this 626 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 3: on TV. The ambulance comes, they take them away and. 627 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: Then they end up in hospital. Yeah. Yeah, and that 628 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: was just it. But literally that was the last moment. 629 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 2: Wow, looking back at your dad's life, do you think 630 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 2: your dad was happy? 631 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: Dad was definitely happy. 632 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 3: Mom and Dad have a relationship that I really looked 633 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 3: up to, not part where he didn't tell her that 634 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 3: was dying and not the heart, the part where they 635 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 3: did everything in their power to be together. Like they 636 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 3: left Vietnam together even though my grandma and my grandma's 637 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 3: on both sides were totally against it. They didn't want 638 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 3: my parents to be here together. They came to Australia. 639 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 3: They build a family together, they build business together. They 640 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 3: were so madly in love and they just wanted this family. 641 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 3: And that's something that I didn't really think until just 642 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 3: about now. 643 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,959 Speaker 1: When you asked me that, I was like, ah, so 644 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: that's where that comes from. 645 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 3: Yea, yeah, because even now, like Mom dates like she's 646 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 3: having boyfriends and things before. But when I asked her, 647 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 3: does it get more like serious in this that you 648 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 3: think of getting me married? Because she goes, no, I 649 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 3: had the love of my life. It's gone now like 650 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 3: this is just more of a companion thing. 651 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 2: Up next, we chat about the impact that being cheated 652 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 2: on had on Calm self esteem, the experience of watching 653 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 2: yourself on television and hating how you look, and why 654 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 2: can't thinks that even successful people don't always find more 655 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 2: happiness when they get what they want. Calm, there's another 656 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 2: time in your life when the world told you you'd 657 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 2: be happy and you weren't. When was that? 658 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 3: A little bit of a background on this when you 659 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 3: come off Master Chef right, and there are things that 660 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 3: you want as a contestant. You want restaurants, or you 661 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 3: want cookbooks, or you want TV shows, or you just 662 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 3: want to like write for a publication, whatever it is. 663 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 3: There are things that they're a goalposts for you. I 664 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 3: had gotten the cookbook, I'd gotten the restaurant, I'd gotten 665 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 3: the TV show, I was writing for publications, and then 666 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 3: I was onto my next television show, Karlon's Wild Food, 667 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 3: a show that was my dream show, is my dream show, 668 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 3: and I thought, tick tick tick tick tick, We've ticked 669 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 3: off like the four major things that you want to 670 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 3: do as a Master Chef contestant, and. 671 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 2: A lot of people get none of them. It's a 672 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,959 Speaker 2: certain type of person who has stood out and who 673 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 2: Australia has fallen in love with that gets those opportunities. 674 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: You're like, who, thank you. Yeah. So I was on 675 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: Conan's Wild Food. 676 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 3: I was watching the pilot and I was going through 677 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 3: a breakup at the time, and I remember being like, 678 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 3: oh my god, this is amazing. I've got my first 679 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 3: like actual travel TV show, and this is amazing. And 680 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 3: all I could remember is sitting there going why do 681 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 3: I look so overweight? What is going on with my skin? 682 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 3: What is going on with my hair? Why I'm a 683 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 3: mannerism is like that is this why I'm single? Like 684 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 3: I was going through the breakup and watching myself at 685 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 3: the time the same time, which was horrible, and like 686 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 3: I just was not happy with how I looked and 687 00:34:08,319 --> 00:34:10,999 Speaker 3: I had never really cared that. Yeah, I care about 688 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 3: my clothes. I came about my hair and stuff like that. 689 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 3: But I'm always like I'm fit, Like I go to 690 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,479 Speaker 3: the gym. Yes, I'm a chef and I eat a lot, 691 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,479 Speaker 3: but I go to the gym. But this was the 692 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,399 Speaker 3: first time where I saw myself on camera and I went, 693 00:34:21,479 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 3: this is forever and this is why I'm single. 694 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,919 Speaker 2: Wow, because I reckon a lot of people get those 695 00:34:28,959 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 2: sort of opportunities, whether it's like a photo shoot or 696 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 2: you're doing an ad or something like that, and it 697 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 2: looks so flash and so exciting, and no one prepares 698 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:39,999 Speaker 2: you for the fact that you might look at it 699 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 2: and think, my hell, look shit, and everybody's looking at it, 700 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 2: and it's this visceral feeling of I feel yuck, and 701 00:34:49,839 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 2: I feel like that's going to be there forever ever, 702 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 2: and I feel like I don't look my best and 703 00:34:56,279 --> 00:34:57,399 Speaker 2: that makes me feel like shit. 704 00:34:57,919 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 3: It's like I know that, like it's a very superficial 705 00:35:00,399 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 3: thing to feel, but at the time, I remember just going, 706 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 3: this is the reason I currently don't have love in 707 00:35:05,359 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 3: my life. 708 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 2: And to weave those two things together, yeah, is so 709 00:35:11,479 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 2: I'm human but unhealthy and so arbitrary. So you were 710 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 2: feeling rejected. 711 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: I was feeling rejected. 712 00:35:19,879 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 3: I was thinking like, maybe I'm just like super annoying, 713 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 3: or my laugh is blah blah blah. I know that 714 00:35:24,799 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 3: we don't fatciate, but I'm like, in my mind, maybe I'm. 715 00:35:27,359 --> 00:35:30,839 Speaker 2: Just fat You start with the self talk, yeah, and that. 716 00:35:30,959 --> 00:35:31,639 Speaker 1: Was what I was feeling. 717 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 3: And then I was watching like these little edits of 718 00:35:35,279 --> 00:35:38,079 Speaker 3: my own TV show, and that was running through my mind. 719 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 3: I'm like, is that conversation I'm having with that person annoying? 720 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,039 Speaker 3: Like will the viewer look at that and go, oh god, 721 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 3: he's just hit his on again? Or like it was 722 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 3: just ridiculous that it was a TV show that was 723 00:35:49,439 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 3: so proud to have as my own, but yet there 724 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 3: was this constant stream of negativeativity that just made me 725 00:35:55,839 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 3: really upset. 726 00:35:56,839 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, even though if you had looked at it, you know, 727 00:35:59,759 --> 00:36:01,839 Speaker 2: years in the past, if you had told yourself, I'm 728 00:36:01,839 --> 00:36:03,439 Speaker 2: mean to have my own TV show, you would have 729 00:36:03,479 --> 00:36:05,919 Speaker 2: thought I am the happiest I've ever been. 730 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 1: Yeah. 731 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 2: So you've also talked about having been cheated on and 732 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,959 Speaker 2: how that kind of changed your idea of relationships. What 733 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:15,839 Speaker 2: was that experience? 734 00:36:15,959 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 3: Like, Okay, so the cheating he is a really funny one. 735 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 3: Being cheated on it it's not funny. But I was 736 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,439 Speaker 3: seeing this guy and everything was fine. We were no monogamous, 737 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,959 Speaker 3: We had other partners whatever. We were in bed one 738 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 3: night and he goes, have you been sleeping with anyone else? 739 00:36:28,319 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 3: I was like, no, not really for the last month 740 00:36:29,959 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 3: or so. 741 00:36:30,479 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 1: I was like have you guys? No, not really, and 742 00:36:32,799 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 1: then I was like okay. He goes, do you want 743 00:36:34,839 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: to just not? And I'm like, yeah, I would like that. 744 00:36:39,839 --> 00:36:42,999 Speaker 3: Fast forward a month find out that he slept with 745 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,439 Speaker 3: someone that night, Like, I'm like, why did we have 746 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:47,359 Speaker 3: this conversation? 747 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,999 Speaker 2: Why did you It's like he wanted it to be 748 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 2: cheated because it's like he put the rule in so 749 00:36:52,759 --> 00:36:53,359 Speaker 2: he could break. 750 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 3: Yeahs odd, But it's so weird because it was like 751 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 3: we were fine, like we were sleeping with other people. 752 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:00,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, we hadn't been actively doing it, but like that 753 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 1: was allowed. And also like I was totally fine with 754 00:37:05,399 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: you sleeping with someone else. It was honest. It was 755 00:37:08,279 --> 00:37:09,920 Speaker 1: just so insane to me. Anyway. 756 00:37:10,399 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 3: From that moment, I kind of changed the way I 757 00:37:12,839 --> 00:37:16,359 Speaker 3: thought about relationships and I'm like, so I don't care 758 00:37:16,439 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 3: about the sex thing, Like I don't care if my 759 00:37:19,319 --> 00:37:22,439 Speaker 3: partner sleeps with someone else. What I cared about in 760 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 3: that moment was the lie of it all. So I 761 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 3: am currently hanging out seeing someone there is a special 762 00:37:30,959 --> 00:37:31,639 Speaker 3: man in my life. 763 00:37:31,759 --> 00:37:32,559 Speaker 2: He wrote you a letter. 764 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just to put that out. He's not my boyfriend, 765 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 3: but like in the Jungle, they put boyfriend. And I 766 00:37:38,319 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 3: was mortified when I came out because I read it 767 00:37:40,279 --> 00:37:44,359 Speaker 3: and I went, oh, my gosh, we've been labeled. We'd 768 00:37:44,479 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 3: have literally just gone away together and everything's fine. We 769 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 3: are in a situation. 770 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:51,479 Speaker 1: GYP non monogamous. 771 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,879 Speaker 3: And the reason behind that is I think personally it's 772 00:37:54,919 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 3: not for everyone, but I think that the act of 773 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 3: cheating or sleeping with someone isn't the thing that is 774 00:38:01,319 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 3: the most hurtful part. The most hurtful part is the 775 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 3: betrayal is the lie. And if you can have an 776 00:38:06,879 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 3: open conversation with your partner about what your needs are. 777 00:38:11,359 --> 00:38:13,919 Speaker 3: We've always been very open what your needs are, whether 778 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,439 Speaker 3: it be in the bedroom or like communication, whatever it is, 779 00:38:17,919 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 3: and you can pick out the things that your partner 780 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 3: may not be able to provide you, then you're taking 781 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 3: away the lie and you're taking away the betrayal. So 782 00:38:29,319 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 3: with me, I'm like, well, it doesn't make sense for 783 00:38:31,959 --> 00:38:34,280 Speaker 3: us to be traveling, not living in the same state 784 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,479 Speaker 3: and be completely monogamous. Knowing that we'll go weeks on 785 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,119 Speaker 3: end without seeing each other, like see wherever you want. 786 00:38:42,959 --> 00:38:48,399 Speaker 2: Do you generally in relationships? Do you not believe in monogamy? 787 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 3: I always called myself monogamish, being that like, if my 788 00:38:54,279 --> 00:38:58,040 Speaker 3: partner needed me to be monogamous, then it's something that 789 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,360 Speaker 3: we would speak about and I would probably be totally 790 00:39:00,399 --> 00:39:02,959 Speaker 3: okay with it and we'll do it. But we've had 791 00:39:02,959 --> 00:39:06,119 Speaker 3: a lot of conversations where we're both monogamish, where it's 792 00:39:06,759 --> 00:39:09,879 Speaker 3: if we found ourselves living in the same city, living 793 00:39:09,879 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 3: in the same home, totally yeah, like that makes sense, 794 00:39:13,359 --> 00:39:16,839 Speaker 3: Like we want a family, we want kids, Like that 795 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 3: makes total sense to us. But saying that it's monogamish 796 00:39:20,759 --> 00:39:25,359 Speaker 3: because if we travel, you're overseas, you're somewhere else and 797 00:39:26,359 --> 00:39:31,559 Speaker 3: this is horrible, but people who travel for work are 798 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 3: very very likely to cheat. 799 00:39:34,439 --> 00:39:36,279 Speaker 2: That's very true, very true. 800 00:39:36,319 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 1: It's like like I obviously don't have any status behind that, 801 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 1: so like, don't come. 802 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,399 Speaker 2: Out, no, it just from my own life, I know 803 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 2: that that's what happens. And it's also harder to trust 804 00:39:45,359 --> 00:39:47,279 Speaker 2: somebody because you're just not with them every night. You 805 00:39:47,359 --> 00:39:48,439 Speaker 2: can't see what they're doing. 806 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:49,999 Speaker 1: Yeah, and like I travel a lot. 807 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,919 Speaker 3: The person I'm hanging out with, we're gonna call him Rhino. 808 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,400 Speaker 3: That's because that's what I called him all through the jungle. 809 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 3: So Rhino travels a lot. I travel a lot. 810 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 2: And do you think a relationship now is something you 811 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,119 Speaker 2: factor into your idea of a happy life? 812 00:40:05,759 --> 00:40:05,959 Speaker 1: Yep. 813 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:12,439 Speaker 3: Oh, I was like, whoa, Yeah, this actually happened in 814 00:40:12,479 --> 00:40:14,759 Speaker 3: the jungle where I was like, I really miss this person. 815 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:16,280 Speaker 1: I really want to be with this person. 816 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:21,639 Speaker 3: I also really want now to not care as much 817 00:40:21,839 --> 00:40:25,399 Speaker 3: about my career, not in the sense that I still 818 00:40:25,439 --> 00:40:29,119 Speaker 3: don't want to be working a lot, but I think 819 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,639 Speaker 3: now there's time to kind of give that other side 820 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 3: of my life a little bit of love. I am 821 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,239 Speaker 3: thirty now, so I'm starting to think about what that 822 00:40:37,399 --> 00:40:38,999 Speaker 3: kind of looks like, what my future looks like, what 823 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 3: my family life looks like. 824 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,440 Speaker 1: And yeah, so I would like to meet a person 825 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,199 Speaker 1: and have kids and have a farm. 826 00:40:47,959 --> 00:40:54,399 Speaker 2: And when you think about how you define happiness, you're 827 00:40:54,479 --> 00:40:57,719 Speaker 2: so young now, But if you think about being an 828 00:40:57,799 --> 00:41:03,319 Speaker 2: old man and looking back and thinking I had a 829 00:41:03,399 --> 00:41:06,319 Speaker 2: happy life, what do you think that looked like. 830 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 3: In the jungle, A few people figured it out. They're like, 831 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:14,919 Speaker 3: you really just want to cook. I honestly just want 832 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 3: to cook, Like I want to watch people eat and 833 00:41:18,839 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 3: enjoy my food, or cook for themselves and tell me 834 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,759 Speaker 3: that my kids really like this dish. 835 00:41:24,439 --> 00:41:26,479 Speaker 1: Like that is happiness. 836 00:41:27,399 --> 00:41:29,799 Speaker 3: That is actually, if we got rid of everything else 837 00:41:30,319 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 3: and we just had people cooking my food and enjoying it, 838 00:41:34,439 --> 00:41:35,279 Speaker 3: that is happiness. 839 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 2: And why do you think that is? What is it 840 00:41:37,799 --> 00:41:41,719 Speaker 2: about that act and about food? Is it mindfulness? Is 841 00:41:41,799 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 2: it actually being in the moment and taking time to 842 00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 2: learn about the things. 843 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:48,879 Speaker 3: As I was growing up, I said that I spent 844 00:41:48,919 --> 00:41:50,239 Speaker 3: a lot of time in the kitchen with my mom 845 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 3: and my dad. We cooked a lot together, and I 846 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,639 Speaker 3: remember it being a time where I was really really 847 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:57,919 Speaker 3: happy because I was spending time with my parents. And 848 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,079 Speaker 3: I think that's where my love of food comes from. 849 00:42:00,359 --> 00:42:04,799 Speaker 3: And I think somewhere in that whole idea, I reckon 850 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 3: that if other people are cooking, they're probably going to 851 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,759 Speaker 3: be cooking with their friends or their family or their children, 852 00:42:09,879 --> 00:42:12,359 Speaker 3: and the probably going to have these experiences that will 853 00:42:12,399 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 3: be lifelong, core memories of happiness for them. I always 854 00:42:16,479 --> 00:42:20,680 Speaker 3: feel this sense of like pride when I've cooked for 855 00:42:20,839 --> 00:42:23,279 Speaker 3: people and they're sitting there and they've enjoyed something that 856 00:42:23,319 --> 00:42:25,279 Speaker 3: I've done. So a lot of the dishes that you'll 857 00:42:25,319 --> 00:42:27,839 Speaker 3: find now that I'm pushing out, all the dishes I'm 858 00:42:27,839 --> 00:42:32,959 Speaker 3: filming are very simple, very quick and no fuss, even 859 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 3: like my my new series which is Table for One, 860 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,239 Speaker 3: where I just like teach people how to cook for 861 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:38,999 Speaker 3: themselves and then have it enough just. 862 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 2: For one exactly, So a challenge that people have when 863 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,199 Speaker 2: you're living on your own. Anything, Oh, I won't cook 864 00:42:46,279 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 2: because they'll just be so much waste. Yeah, it's such 865 00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:49,239 Speaker 2: a good idea. 866 00:42:49,439 --> 00:42:51,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I currently live alone, so I'm like, yes, 867 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,319 Speaker 3: I have this, and then I packed the other leftover 868 00:42:54,359 --> 00:42:56,279 Speaker 3: into a lunch box and I have it for lunch. 869 00:42:56,359 --> 00:42:58,719 Speaker 1: I don't really give it to my concierge, but I 870 00:42:58,839 --> 00:42:59,519 Speaker 1: have it for lunch. 871 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:06,559 Speaker 2: So I wanted to ask finally about what you think 872 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:13,239 Speaker 2: about the relationship between success and happiness from a humble 873 00:43:13,319 --> 00:43:17,040 Speaker 2: background in terms of a refugee camp, coming to Australia, 874 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:21,600 Speaker 2: your family, starting a life again, and now you have 875 00:43:21,799 --> 00:43:25,759 Speaker 2: the kind of success I'm sure you and your family 876 00:43:25,839 --> 00:43:30,039 Speaker 2: could not have even imagined back then. Do you think 877 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:37,120 Speaker 2: that over that period your happiness has increased or do 878 00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,919 Speaker 2: you think that as we become more successful and we 879 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,120 Speaker 2: get more of what we want, our expectations and desires 880 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:46,639 Speaker 2: just change and we stay about the same in terms 881 00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:47,519 Speaker 2: about how we feel. 882 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:48,559 Speaker 1: We definitely say the same. 883 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,080 Speaker 3: We definitely say the same because I feel like the 884 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 3: happiest signs that I remember are my childhood, with my family, 885 00:43:53,959 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 3: with my sister. 886 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,279 Speaker 1: I'm sitting on the counter with my mom cooking. 887 00:43:57,839 --> 00:44:00,479 Speaker 2: But do you think when you look at your life 888 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,319 Speaker 2: and you think about the things that you've really wanted 889 00:44:03,479 --> 00:44:08,399 Speaker 2: and then getting them, Yeah, have you noticed that there's 890 00:44:08,439 --> 00:44:09,359 Speaker 2: complexity there? 891 00:44:10,759 --> 00:44:12,960 Speaker 3: I have mentioned her like twenty four times for Sarah 892 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,279 Speaker 3: and I have these very in depth conversations where we've 893 00:44:16,279 --> 00:44:18,239 Speaker 3: gone walks and we just talk about our entire life. 894 00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:20,999 Speaker 3: We complain about things that we're not supposed to complain about, 895 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 3: but we can to each other. Yeah, And one of 896 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,680 Speaker 3: the complaints are that it's kind of ridiculous that we've 897 00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 3: gone to a stage in our life where we have goals. 898 00:44:28,879 --> 00:44:31,359 Speaker 3: We have these goals that are huge goals that we 899 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,920 Speaker 3: might have told each other two years, three years before, 900 00:44:34,479 --> 00:44:37,320 Speaker 3: and then we achieve those goals. We achieve those goals 901 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:41,959 Speaker 3: and we'll go yay for about five seconds, and then 902 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,160 Speaker 3: we go what's next, and we move on, and it's like, 903 00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:50,319 Speaker 3: wait a minute, why wasn't I super excited that I 904 00:44:50,479 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 3: am the Australian ambassador for AMEX and I have been 905 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,359 Speaker 3: for two years. Like that's crazy. Like I have my 906 00:44:56,399 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 3: own TV show, crazy. I have one cookbook but a 907 00:45:02,359 --> 00:45:06,200 Speaker 3: deal to do three more insane. I have the opportunity 908 00:45:06,279 --> 00:45:09,160 Speaker 3: to do another TV show. I've been given a timeslot. 909 00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:10,680 Speaker 3: All I have to do is make the co for it. 910 00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,640 Speaker 3: And yet I don't celebrate any of these things. I 911 00:45:13,759 --> 00:45:15,279 Speaker 3: just go, Okay, cool, what's next. 912 00:45:15,399 --> 00:45:15,519 Speaker 4: Yep. 913 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,359 Speaker 2: It's just a treadmill of just yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, 914 00:45:18,399 --> 00:45:20,759 Speaker 2: and then your baseline changes of what it feels like 915 00:45:20,839 --> 00:45:23,080 Speaker 2: you need in order to feel satisfied. 916 00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:27,200 Speaker 3: This is why I think what I really want is 917 00:45:27,279 --> 00:45:30,879 Speaker 3: that family, that life, because I'm like, right now, I 918 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:35,080 Speaker 3: am only just kicking these goals because I am searching 919 00:45:35,759 --> 00:45:38,639 Speaker 3: for something, like I can't get what I really want, 920 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:40,799 Speaker 3: so instead I'm like, yeah, I don't need anything. 921 00:45:40,919 --> 00:45:44,439 Speaker 1: I'm just going to become like a multi millionaire and travel. 922 00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,039 Speaker 3: The world and just like eat food and like wear 923 00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:48,559 Speaker 3: nice clothes and be tanned all the time. 924 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,920 Speaker 2: But if you got all those things, would you feel empty? 925 00:45:52,399 --> 00:45:53,520 Speaker 2: Would there be something missing? 926 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,160 Speaker 3: I reckon you would, yeah, because I think that, Like, 927 00:45:57,439 --> 00:46:01,919 Speaker 3: I just want to cook for my family every single meal, 928 00:46:02,319 --> 00:46:04,599 Speaker 3: every breakfast, every lunch and every dinner, and be sad 929 00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,959 Speaker 3: when my kids tell me that they don't want something 930 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:08,079 Speaker 3: that would make them for lunch. 931 00:46:08,919 --> 00:46:14,440 Speaker 2: That's all about Yeah, Khan, You're loved by the Australian public. 932 00:46:14,759 --> 00:46:17,479 Speaker 2: You've built a career I'm sure you could have only 933 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,120 Speaker 2: dreamed of when you're a kid, and it feels like 934 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,160 Speaker 2: you truly get to do what you love and your 935 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,400 Speaker 2: passion is palpable. But are you happy? 936 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,319 Speaker 3: I am happy to an extent Like this whole time 937 00:46:30,359 --> 00:46:32,560 Speaker 3: I've spoken, you can tell that I'm a pretty happy person. 938 00:46:32,839 --> 00:46:35,479 Speaker 3: I'm very happy. I'm very fortunate. I'm very thankful for 939 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,040 Speaker 3: everything I have. The only thing that's missing for me 940 00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,919 Speaker 3: are the kids. Yeah, I think, But I don't think 941 00:46:42,959 --> 00:46:46,879 Speaker 3: I'm at that stage of my life yet where that 942 00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:50,319 Speaker 3: is going to rip my soul apart right now. It's 943 00:46:50,479 --> 00:46:52,999 Speaker 3: really I need to start thinking about it. I need 944 00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,399 Speaker 3: to start working out whether I be adopting, whether it 945 00:46:56,479 --> 00:47:00,799 Speaker 3: would be surrogacy, or whatever way that I want to 946 00:47:00,839 --> 00:47:03,599 Speaker 3: have children. I think this is now when I really 947 00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:05,959 Speaker 3: need to start think about it and actually dedicate some 948 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:10,160 Speaker 3: time to sit down and map it out, because it's 949 00:47:10,359 --> 00:47:13,599 Speaker 3: not just going to happen, especially for a homosexual man. 950 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:15,040 Speaker 1: It's not just going to happen. I'm not going to 951 00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,680 Speaker 1: just feel pregnant. You never know. 952 00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:28,479 Speaker 2: This was such an enlightening conversation because you can see 953 00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:33,120 Speaker 2: in Karn a human experience that's universal. The stuff he 954 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,640 Speaker 2: struggles with is both the big stuff and the little stuff. 955 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:39,919 Speaker 2: It's being a kid and not feeling like you fit 956 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,040 Speaker 2: in because you don't have a cultural context that matches 957 00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,999 Speaker 2: your peers, because you weren't born in a hospital in 958 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,959 Speaker 2: the next suburb, but in a refugee camp. And it's 959 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:53,680 Speaker 2: also second guessing everything about yourself because you were cheated on. 960 00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,239 Speaker 2: And it's also deciding you want to have kids and 961 00:47:57,399 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 2: not knowing how you're going to make that happen. He 962 00:48:01,319 --> 00:48:04,040 Speaker 2: also shows how the things we think are going to 963 00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,839 Speaker 2: go wrong and are going to be hard and upsetting 964 00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,080 Speaker 2: sometimes surprise us. For him, it was thinking that his 965 00:48:11,279 --> 00:48:14,239 Speaker 2: mum was going to react badly to him opening up 966 00:48:14,279 --> 00:48:17,959 Speaker 2: about his sexuality and then discovering that he was wrong 967 00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,000 Speaker 2: about that, and also going into the jungle and meeting 968 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,759 Speaker 2: people who he was wrong about, people he had preconceived 969 00:48:25,799 --> 00:48:29,719 Speaker 2: judgments about, and how connecting with those people is an 970 00:48:29,839 --> 00:48:35,560 Speaker 2: enormous source of happiness. Join me next week for a 971 00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:40,319 Speaker 2: chat with radio host, podcaster, media personality and writer Laura Burrn. 972 00:48:40,919 --> 00:48:43,559 Speaker 2: We talk about how she dealt with scrutiny about her 973 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,520 Speaker 2: appearance during a time when she should have felt confident 974 00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,640 Speaker 2: and in love, and how giving birth to her first 975 00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,279 Speaker 2: baby was nothing like what she expected. 976 00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:54,600 Speaker 6: And Matt was in the kitchen with Marley, and I 977 00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:56,279 Speaker 6: was sitting on the side of the bed and you know, 978 00:48:56,439 --> 00:48:59,080 Speaker 6: he like massive pads and you want a pillow, booms 979 00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,680 Speaker 6: her everything. You're just like, haven't slept in two days. 980 00:49:01,959 --> 00:49:04,239 Speaker 6: The emotions really hit you. And she was in the 981 00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,440 Speaker 6: little bassinet next to the bed, and I remember sitting 982 00:49:06,479 --> 00:49:08,719 Speaker 6: there looking at her and I was like, we have 983 00:49:08,919 --> 00:49:09,840 Speaker 6: ruined our lives. 984 00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:15,319 Speaker 2: On last week's episode, I spoke with media personality, youth worker, podcaster, 985 00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:20,360 Speaker 2: and author Brook Blurton about processing trauma, balancing the pursuit 986 00:49:20,479 --> 00:49:23,959 Speaker 2: of individual happiness with the needs and struggles of your community, 987 00:49:24,759 --> 00:49:27,680 Speaker 2: and the moment you found love on national television and 988 00:49:27,839 --> 00:49:30,999 Speaker 2: received news of a personal tragedy at the same time. 989 00:49:31,919 --> 00:49:34,120 Speaker 2: There's a link in the show notes to listen to 990 00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:37,959 Speaker 2: that episode. If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave us 991 00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:41,759 Speaker 2: a review. It really helps people to find us. And 992 00:49:41,959 --> 00:49:44,759 Speaker 2: if you'd like to suggest someone for the podcast, we 993 00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:48,560 Speaker 2: love suggestions, so you can email us here at podcast 994 00:49:48,839 --> 00:49:51,959 Speaker 2: at mummeya dot com dot au, or find me on 995 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,200 Speaker 2: Instagram and send me a message at Claire dot Stevens. 996 00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:59,680 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Tarlie Blackman, with audio production 997 00:49:59,959 --> 00:50:02,039 Speaker 2: by Scott Stronik. See you next week.