WEBVTT - We’ve Entered The Year Of Friction-maxxing 0:00:08.234 --> 0:00:17.714 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Hello and welcome 0:00:17.794 --> 0:00:19.674 to Mom and Mia out Loud. It's what women are 0:00:19.674 --> 0:00:22.794 actually talking about on Friday, the sixteenth of January. 0:00:23.194 --> 0:00:25.834 I'm Holly Waynwright, I'm EMM Burnham. 0:00:25.434 --> 0:00:26.874 And I'm Jesse Stevens. 0:00:27.074 --> 0:00:29.634 And here's what's on our agenda for today, the last 0:00:29.674 --> 0:00:31.794 episode of our first full week of the year. 0:00:31.954 --> 0:00:33.274 Yes, it's been great. 0:00:34.354 --> 0:00:37.354 Today I'm bringing us the latest stupid thing that a 0:00:37.394 --> 0:00:39.873 celebrity dad said that I've said everybody, what was it? 0:00:39.954 --> 0:00:41.873 Stupid? That's what we are going to unpack. 0:00:42.034 --> 0:00:45.274 Yes, plus us our eCos that we've been loving over 0:00:45.314 --> 0:00:45.674 the break. 0:00:45.714 --> 0:00:47.354 I'm very excited to share mine with you. 0:00:47.634 --> 0:00:51.633 And apparently twenty twenty six is the year of friction maxing. 0:00:51.913 --> 0:00:55.114 What does that mean? And some of us already doing it? 0:00:55.354 --> 0:00:58.154 But first, in case you miss it, we have been 0:00:58.194 --> 0:01:00.234 doing Sundays wrong the French. 0:01:00.234 --> 0:01:01.034 I've been doing it right. 0:01:01.154 --> 0:01:04.154 Of course they have, because the French do things right. 0:01:04.994 --> 0:01:07.954 I recently came across an article in this Zoe report 0:01:08.314 --> 0:01:10.874 that pretty much said that we should be adopting the 0:01:10.954 --> 0:01:14.754 French Sunday also known as the demoche. 0:01:15.274 --> 0:01:16.474 Ah, you looked that up. 0:01:16.634 --> 0:01:18.794 I did look at that. I was the word for this. 0:01:19.874 --> 0:01:22.754 French out louders and out loud as French to say, 0:01:22.954 --> 0:01:26.194 may we apologize, may we apologize, especially if chat gpt. 0:01:25.994 --> 0:01:28.034 Completely lied and I mean something completely different. 0:01:28.554 --> 0:01:31.474 So it's the idea that Sundays are meant to be lazy, 0:01:31.754 --> 0:01:35.594 stress free, filled with doing nothing. We don't do that 0:01:35.954 --> 0:01:39.394 over here. Sundays are for admin they're for doing our taxes, 0:01:39.554 --> 0:01:42.114 they're for doing our shopping, meal prepping. 0:01:41.834 --> 0:01:42.554 Meal prepping. 0:01:42.674 --> 0:01:44.834 And this is why we need to adopt the French 0:01:44.834 --> 0:01:48.554 Sunday because now in France, Sundays are seen as like 0:01:48.914 --> 0:01:51.474 a day to enjoy during the week, not a day 0:01:51.554 --> 0:01:52.114 of dread. 0:01:52.474 --> 0:01:55.314 And they have always seen the day as sacred. I 0:01:55.394 --> 0:01:57.754 saw that from like nineteen oh six or something. It 0:01:57.874 --> 0:02:00.994 was enshrined in law that you can't open your shop, 0:02:01.154 --> 0:02:05.354 which has Christian roots, Catholic roots, but it's also got 0:02:05.434 --> 0:02:07.674 roots in like the union movement, and was like you 0:02:07.714 --> 0:02:10.754 can't force someone to work a Sunday, whereas the rest 0:02:10.794 --> 0:02:14.874 of like you know, London is buzzing on a Sunday. 0:02:14.874 --> 0:02:17.034 Everything's open, go out to lunch, go out and like 0:02:17.394 --> 0:02:20.674 enjoy yourself. But I kind of love the idea that 0:02:20.714 --> 0:02:24.394 the entire country takes a deep breath, the ideas that 0:02:24.434 --> 0:02:29.474 you stroll through Paris or your like countryside and just 0:02:30.474 --> 0:02:33.434 relax rather than frantically preparing for the week. 0:02:33.874 --> 0:02:36.554 I get anxious on Sundays as the morning wears on. 0:02:36.674 --> 0:02:39.434 I start going all the things I've got to do right, 0:02:39.514 --> 0:02:41.714 and yeah, so I need to reset my mind. I 0:02:41.754 --> 0:02:44.394 looked at the list of how to have a French Sunday. 0:02:44.474 --> 0:02:45.194 Do you want to hear one? 0:02:45.274 --> 0:02:45.394 Yes? 0:02:45.514 --> 0:02:49.714 What it involves, so wake up late and maybe by 0:02:49.714 --> 0:02:50.154 a question. 0:02:50.634 --> 0:02:50.834 Yeah. 0:02:50.834 --> 0:02:52.074 I liked a bit about the chroissant. 0:02:52.154 --> 0:02:52.994 That was nice. 0:02:53.514 --> 0:02:56.114 Do not touch a to do list in any way. 0:02:56.834 --> 0:03:01.314 Enjoy some gentle self care. Brush your hair slowly, put 0:03:01.314 --> 0:03:05.034 on moisturizer slowly, Stretch slowly. 0:03:05.434 --> 0:03:07.634 This is all sounding a lot like it do list. 0:03:07.874 --> 0:03:11.314 Take off the pajamas and leggings unless they're ears, which 0:03:11.354 --> 0:03:14.114 is I think a fancy brand. Apparently you're not allowed 0:03:14.114 --> 0:03:16.714 to slob around, even though this is French lazy Sunday, 0:03:16.754 --> 0:03:19.954 we're not slobbing. Apparently you're allowed to wear a cotton 0:03:19.994 --> 0:03:21.514 shirt and soft jeans. 0:03:21.714 --> 0:03:23.834 Yeah, that's what you're allowed to wear. Her breathe. 0:03:23.874 --> 0:03:26.474 You're gonna this isn't gonna work with you. But take 0:03:26.514 --> 0:03:30.074 off the pajamas and leggings, have a proper Sunday chicken roast, 0:03:30.834 --> 0:03:34.434 and forget about brunch forever. Apparently brunch is seen as 0:03:34.474 --> 0:03:37.474 being quite stressy and like, you know. 0:03:37.514 --> 0:03:38.154 To be seen. 0:03:38.594 --> 0:03:40.554 Yeah, and it's also like you've got to be there 0:03:40.594 --> 0:03:42.674 by a certain time to meet someone, and then all 0:03:42.674 --> 0:03:43.634 of a sudden you're rushing. 0:03:43.754 --> 0:03:45.794 And then if it's bottomless brand, you're like, I need 0:03:45.834 --> 0:03:47.594 to get as many drinks. 0:03:47.514 --> 0:03:52.074 Exactly, which is really actually stressful. I also read Make Love. 0:03:52.194 --> 0:03:54.874 Yes, that was on the list. It says, pretend all 0:03:54.954 --> 0:03:59.154 establishments are clothes, wander aimlessly on purpose, read a book, 0:03:59.474 --> 0:04:00.634 and make love. 0:04:00.434 --> 0:04:03.794 Which, again it's sounding to do listing, but. 0:04:03.754 --> 0:04:05.794 It's like non strenuous to do list. 0:04:05.914 --> 0:04:09.434 Non streous love, a very specific kind of sex on 0:04:09.514 --> 0:04:13.114 some there maybe just starfish it yeah, easy. 0:04:12.874 --> 0:04:16.194 Like Sunday, as easy as possible. 0:04:16.274 --> 0:04:18.873 I'll just be lying here, thank you. I really I 0:04:18.914 --> 0:04:21.074 do like the idea that we've talked a lot about 0:04:21.113 --> 0:04:23.674 how we need to kind of reclaim rest a bit. 0:04:24.393 --> 0:04:26.193 But the problem with this is like who's cooking the 0:04:26.234 --> 0:04:26.833 roast chicken? 0:04:26.993 --> 0:04:27.193 You know? 0:04:27.274 --> 0:04:29.233 And I don't know very many women who find cooking 0:04:29.393 --> 0:04:30.633 roast that relaxing. 0:04:30.873 --> 0:04:32.833 No, and then I saw like, oh, I just take 0:04:32.873 --> 0:04:34.794 my children down to the markets, and I was like. 0:04:34.753 --> 0:04:39.154 Ah, wait till the shops are open. Then you just 0:04:39.234 --> 0:04:41.433 get the bachelor's handbag and you bring it. 0:04:42.113 --> 0:04:45.794 That's true a barbecue chalk. I think we should reclaim 0:04:45.914 --> 0:04:46.753 our day of rest. 0:04:48.154 --> 0:04:52.274 Have we eliminated too much friction from our lives? There 0:04:52.313 --> 0:04:54.674 was an essay published in The Cut over the Break 0:04:54.873 --> 0:04:59.714 called in twenty twenty six, we are friction maxing, and 0:04:59.753 --> 0:05:03.313 the argument goes that tech companies have led us to 0:05:03.433 --> 0:05:07.513 believe that everything from reading to talking to me, moving 0:05:07.953 --> 0:05:10.753 to leaving the house, to cooking dinner, to apply to texts, 0:05:11.234 --> 0:05:15.433 all of it is simply inconvenience. These are all frictions 0:05:15.794 --> 0:05:20.393 which tech companies have designed the ability to eliminate, and 0:05:20.993 --> 0:05:25.714 deep down we know that eliminating every inconvenience in our 0:05:25.714 --> 0:05:27.874 lives is bad for us. It feels bad for us, 0:05:28.073 --> 0:05:29.314 yet we all do it. 0:05:29.914 --> 0:05:30.074 So. 0:05:30.113 --> 0:05:33.594 Writer Catherine jess and Morton says she is building up 0:05:33.714 --> 0:05:37.113 tolerance for inconvenience. That is what her year is all about. 0:05:37.753 --> 0:05:40.794 No more using chat GPT, saying I've got a few 0:05:40.794 --> 0:05:43.154 things in the fridge. What should I make for dinner? 0:05:43.674 --> 0:05:46.633 She says she is inviting people to her house, but 0:05:46.714 --> 0:05:49.474 she is not properly cleaning it before they get there. 0:05:50.073 --> 0:05:52.474 She wants to ask a friend for advice rather than 0:05:52.513 --> 0:05:56.193 the internet. What do we think about this? Because on 0:05:56.234 --> 0:05:59.113 the surface, I read this article and it really impacted me, 0:05:59.154 --> 0:06:00.834 and I kept trying to tell friends about it over 0:06:00.873 --> 0:06:03.193 the break and they were like, so the whole article 0:06:03.234 --> 0:06:05.833 is just about making your life a bit harder. Yeah, 0:06:06.193 --> 0:06:09.993 but there's something to it that feels important and meaningful. 0:06:10.834 --> 0:06:14.234 Is twenty twenty six the year we lean more into friction? 0:06:14.553 --> 0:06:15.154 What do we think? 0:06:15.474 --> 0:06:18.273 I agree with you. I loved this article. The opening 0:06:18.393 --> 0:06:21.633 par is really as you've said it's about. She talks 0:06:21.633 --> 0:06:25.113 about how tech companies have erased all of our little frictions, 0:06:25.154 --> 0:06:28.153 and she says reading is boring, talking is awkward, moving 0:06:28.234 --> 0:06:30.753 is tiring, leaving the house is daunting, thinking is hard, 0:06:30.873 --> 0:06:34.794 Interacting with strangers is scary, Risking an unexpected reaction from 0:06:34.834 --> 0:06:38.714 someone isn't worth it. Speaking at all overrated. These are 0:06:38.714 --> 0:06:42.433 all frictions that we can now eliminate easily, and we do. 0:06:42.914 --> 0:06:45.914 According to the emergent ideology of Silicon Valley. Most people 0:06:45.953 --> 0:06:49.513 would prefer not to be human. They've demonstrated this through 0:06:49.553 --> 0:06:52.473 their revealed preferences in the way that they use the apps. 0:06:52.513 --> 0:06:56.674 They're being sold that is so true because the culture, 0:06:56.714 --> 0:06:59.154 and I know it's not necessarily true on an individual 0:06:59.234 --> 0:07:03.433 level for everybody, but the culture broadly does tell us 0:07:03.474 --> 0:07:06.473 that all of those things, anything that is a tiny 0:07:06.513 --> 0:07:11.314 bit inconvenient or unpredictable, should be eliminated. Yeah, because it's 0:07:11.354 --> 0:07:14.994 difficult and stressful, and so the argument that we should 0:07:15.074 --> 0:07:18.914 start retraining that muscle, I think is really good. 0:07:19.434 --> 0:07:23.994 And we know that to struggle against something is to imbue, 0:07:24.034 --> 0:07:28.474 meaning like anything that is ultimately satisfying. Like I'm reading 0:07:28.514 --> 0:07:31.114 at the moment a book called The Luminous Solution by 0:07:31.314 --> 0:07:33.274 Charlotte Wood, which I think you might have talked about 0:07:33.314 --> 0:07:36.514 years ago. Charlotte Wood is amazing, so good, and it's 0:07:36.554 --> 0:07:39.154 all about creativity, right, And it's called The Luminous Solution 0:07:39.274 --> 0:07:42.953 because it's basically saying that creativity is about solving a 0:07:42.953 --> 0:07:45.794 problem you design, and it's about playing with the problem 0:07:45.953 --> 0:07:48.713 and the darkness that comes with it and the time 0:07:48.874 --> 0:07:51.394 and the waste and the frustration and all of it, 0:07:51.674 --> 0:07:55.594 and that's why creativity is so satisfying. And creativity, I guess, 0:07:55.634 --> 0:07:58.674 is the ultimate friction. All it is is friction. You're 0:07:58.674 --> 0:08:01.393 coming up against something that's hard, and a lot of 0:08:01.434 --> 0:08:05.074 these technologies offer even in our line of work, like 0:08:05.314 --> 0:08:08.514 there's a lot of pressure to be using aibots or 0:08:08.514 --> 0:08:10.554 whatever to come up with your. 0:08:10.354 --> 0:08:13.234 Intro or your show notes. 0:08:12.953 --> 0:08:15.634 Or whatever it is. But I always think of like 0:08:15.674 --> 0:08:21.153 the great creatives like Michelangelo or whatever, where the struggle 0:08:21.393 --> 0:08:23.194 was the thing, not the outcome. 0:08:23.393 --> 0:08:25.394 And in that case, it's like the friction is kind 0:08:25.393 --> 0:08:26.154 of the whole. 0:08:25.914 --> 0:08:27.674 Point of living, right, m. 0:08:27.834 --> 0:08:31.194 What do you think about the idea of making a 0:08:31.314 --> 0:08:33.634 deliberate attempt to make your life a bit harder. 0:08:33.994 --> 0:08:36.674 It's really confronting. When I read this article, I felt 0:08:36.714 --> 0:08:41.314 so confronted because it made me kind of analyze how 0:08:41.434 --> 0:08:45.754 much of my life I've realized I've automated without actually 0:08:45.874 --> 0:08:47.874 realizing I've been doing it. And I made a little 0:08:47.954 --> 0:08:50.034 list of things that I've been doing that I once 0:08:50.074 --> 0:08:52.234 I saw it on paper, I was like, that's actually 0:08:52.274 --> 0:08:55.314 while did I do this? Wearing AirPods to go get lunch? 0:08:55.474 --> 0:08:57.954 So no one talks to me, like in the elevator. Yes, 0:08:58.314 --> 0:09:01.034 ordering uber eats on my way home while I'm in 0:09:01.034 --> 0:09:03.354 an Uber Yes, I do it all the time, so 0:09:03.394 --> 0:09:04.274 I get there at the same time. 0:09:04.514 --> 0:09:04.954 This one. 0:09:05.314 --> 0:09:07.754 What I've been doing is I've been buying gifts for friends, 0:09:07.954 --> 0:09:11.274 but without a card, because a card is too hard. 0:09:11.354 --> 0:09:13.554 The gift part is easy because you order it online, 0:09:13.594 --> 0:09:16.034 it gets to you. You can select prepackaged so it 0:09:16.074 --> 0:09:17.634 like comes up and wrap it so sometimes you. 0:09:17.634 --> 0:09:20.274 Just send it straight to the email address. 0:09:20.594 --> 0:09:23.514 And then for me having to go outside of work 0:09:23.714 --> 0:09:26.794 walk one hundred meters to like a card shop, buy 0:09:26.794 --> 0:09:28.834 a card and then write in the card and attach 0:09:28.914 --> 0:09:30.154 you to the gift too much. 0:09:30.354 --> 0:09:31.234 Oh wait, and it. 0:09:31.194 --> 0:09:33.714 Actually hurts my hand to write the card too much. 0:09:33.754 --> 0:09:36.954 I can learn how to write reading versus audio books. 0:09:36.994 --> 0:09:38.754 For me, I feel like audiobooks. 0:09:38.234 --> 0:09:40.914 Has changed so many people's lives and you can now 0:09:41.074 --> 0:09:42.874 take so many different books. But for me, whenever I 0:09:42.914 --> 0:09:46.114 listen to an audio book, I automatically start doing something else, 0:09:46.154 --> 0:09:48.314 like I'm always on my phone, I'm always cooking, And 0:09:48.314 --> 0:09:50.114 then I realize I have no idea what this book 0:09:50.154 --> 0:09:50.514 is about. 0:09:51.114 --> 0:09:54.114 Yes, it's really interesting, because your list just there. I 0:09:54.114 --> 0:09:56.074 don't think you should be in the least bit embarrassed. 0:09:56.114 --> 0:09:57.754 I think that's the whole point of this, is that 0:09:58.154 --> 0:10:02.194 everybody's living like that to a point, right, Because then 0:10:02.714 --> 0:10:06.434 I realize that I have been friction maxing the last 0:10:06.434 --> 0:10:09.794 few years, not on purpose, but moving out of a 0:10:09.794 --> 0:10:13.394 big city hasn't made my life much more inconvenient in 0:10:13.434 --> 0:10:16.314 lots of ways. And so then I started thinking about, well, 0:10:16.474 --> 0:10:19.074 has that made me happier? Are things better or whatever? 0:10:19.114 --> 0:10:22.714 So for example, where I live, the shops close at 0:10:22.794 --> 0:10:25.034 lunchtime on a Saturday and they don't reopen till Monday, 0:10:25.034 --> 0:10:28.394 and that's it. There are no shops open after seven o'clock. 0:10:28.434 --> 0:10:30.754 So if I run out of milk at seven o'clock, 0:10:30.914 --> 0:10:34.074 I'm not getting milk. You know, there are there's no delivery, 0:10:34.194 --> 0:10:36.994 there's no Uber eats, there's no door dash, there's none 0:10:37.034 --> 0:10:39.074 of that, right, So you can get woollies ordered or whatever, 0:10:39.114 --> 0:10:41.394 but you can't do anything that's quick and immediate. 0:10:42.154 --> 0:10:44.594 There's no Uber. I can't just order an Uber to 0:10:44.634 --> 0:10:44.994 my house. 0:10:45.794 --> 0:10:48.794 So I have eliminated a lot of those like very 0:10:48.914 --> 0:10:53.394 modern big city conveniences that are now very you don't 0:10:53.394 --> 0:10:55.514 even think about it. And I was thinking, does that 0:10:55.594 --> 0:10:58.794 make me better somehow, And I was like, no, I 0:10:58.794 --> 0:11:01.674 don't think so. But what does happen is you get 0:11:01.754 --> 0:11:05.314 used to it really quickly. So you probably find that 0:11:05.514 --> 0:11:07.874 quite horrifying that I live somewhere where you can't get 0:11:07.914 --> 0:11:09.154 some milk sent over or car. 0:11:09.154 --> 0:11:10.514 Do you have your coffee exactly? 0:11:10.594 --> 0:11:12.194 You know, you either make a coffee or you go 0:11:12.194 --> 0:11:13.914 to the coffee shop when it's open, but it's only 0:11:13.954 --> 0:11:15.954 open at these very specific times. 0:11:16.954 --> 0:11:17.914 It sounds horrifying. 0:11:17.914 --> 0:11:20.034 And I remember when we first moved there and there 0:11:20.114 --> 0:11:22.914 was no Uber Eats and there was a pizza restaurant 0:11:22.914 --> 0:11:23.514 that did deliver. 0:11:23.594 --> 0:11:25.994 At that time, I was like, what is this? 0:11:26.794 --> 0:11:29.354 But you adapt, just in the way that we've adapted 0:11:29.394 --> 0:11:32.514 to all the convenience, you also adapt, but it's not 0:11:32.674 --> 0:11:33.194 having it. 0:11:33.274 --> 0:11:36.234 What does the adaptation? What is it robbing us of? 0:11:36.474 --> 0:11:38.834 Because I think it is robbing us of something, it's 0:11:38.834 --> 0:11:39.994 infantilizing us. 0:11:40.194 --> 0:11:42.074 Well, it is like if I'm at home and I 0:11:42.114 --> 0:11:44.114 want to eat something, I have to make it right. 0:11:44.434 --> 0:11:45.314 There's no other option. 0:11:45.674 --> 0:11:47.914 And is the meal more satisfying because you made it? 0:11:47.954 --> 0:11:48.274 Maybe? 0:11:48.354 --> 0:11:50.874 I don't mean in a Nara Smith way, whether I'm 0:11:50.954 --> 0:11:53.713 like rolling out the dough bread. 0:11:53.354 --> 0:11:54.234 And churning the button. 0:11:54.234 --> 0:11:57.034 I'm not doing that. I do have to make the salad. 0:11:57.074 --> 0:11:59.714 I can't just order a salad bowl. And I think, yes, 0:11:59.794 --> 0:12:02.154 you probably eat more healthily and those kind of things 0:12:02.194 --> 0:12:04.634 and it is more mindful. What I can tell you 0:12:04.714 --> 0:12:07.874 is I don't miss those things like I did at first. 0:12:08.354 --> 0:12:10.634 And when I'm in the city, am I ordering my 0:12:10.674 --> 0:12:11.154 fish bowl? 0:12:11.234 --> 0:12:11.794 Absolutely? 0:12:12.314 --> 0:12:14.874 But I don't miss it. So what does that tell you? 0:12:15.234 --> 0:12:17.794 Is this what we used to call character building? You 0:12:17.834 --> 0:12:20.954 know how in parenting it was like what I remember 0:12:20.954 --> 0:12:23.914 from my childhood. It was like anytime friction was introduced, 0:12:23.954 --> 0:12:25.514 it was like, this is character but we just know 0:12:25.594 --> 0:12:27.594 it's good for you instinctively. I don't even need to 0:12:27.634 --> 0:12:30.554 explain why we know it's good for you. But it 0:12:30.594 --> 0:12:34.114 reminded me of this article that I saw him Maya recently, 0:12:34.354 --> 0:12:38.314 which had a headline like not depressed, just unimpressed, and 0:12:38.354 --> 0:12:42.394 it was about the experience of innui e n and ui. 0:12:44.434 --> 0:12:47.874 I thought you were talking about Americans. 0:12:47.954 --> 0:12:52.274 How did you say it? As it was about on wii, 0:12:52.394 --> 0:12:55.474 which is a French word for a feeling of listlessness, 0:12:55.514 --> 0:12:58.874 weariness and dissatisfaction. And apparently this is like it's so 0:12:59.074 --> 0:13:03.034 widespread now, like so many people experience this. 0:13:03.194 --> 0:13:04.714 I feel like the French have just got it together. 0:13:04.634 --> 0:13:07.594 Oh they've just got it together. They describe as a 0:13:07.634 --> 0:13:12.194 deep existential boredom or a case of the BLA, stemming 0:13:12.234 --> 0:13:15.394 from a feeling that life is meaningless or too easy. 0:13:15.714 --> 0:13:18.754 And I wondered if those two things are somewhat related. 0:13:18.834 --> 0:13:21.194 That if life is just you go through the motions 0:13:21.194 --> 0:13:24.114 and there's this monotony and there's no friction, and therefore 0:13:24.154 --> 0:13:27.154 there's no meaning and you don't feel proud of yourself, 0:13:27.234 --> 0:13:28.954 then like, but here's. 0:13:28.754 --> 0:13:31.714 The interesting friction in that argument is do people feel 0:13:31.714 --> 0:13:33.953 like life is easy? You know, you might have all 0:13:33.954 --> 0:13:36.754 this long list of like conveniences of things you don't 0:13:36.794 --> 0:13:39.874 have to do. But most people I know who are 0:13:39.874 --> 0:13:41.434 not sitting around thinking life is easy. 0:13:41.434 --> 0:13:43.674 I don't know if those things kind of. 0:13:44.314 --> 0:13:46.953 I wonder if I'm a muscle though, because I think 0:13:46.994 --> 0:13:50.194 we just find other problems. Yeah, our muscle for discomfort 0:13:50.194 --> 0:13:53.754 and uncertainty is really weak. Right, So it's like I 0:13:53.834 --> 0:13:57.754 have found myself and again it's instinct more than anything intellectual. 0:13:57.794 --> 0:14:02.074 But like I have started swimming laps again, right, Yeah, 0:14:02.114 --> 0:14:03.794 And I said to someone, you know I get in 0:14:03.794 --> 0:14:06.354 the pool and I swim for thirty forty minutes and 0:14:06.874 --> 0:14:09.314 I won't have any input. It's the only time in 0:14:09.314 --> 0:14:11.074 my day that I don't have any input. And someone 0:14:11.194 --> 0:14:13.914 was like, well, you know, there's waterproofs headphones that. 0:14:13.794 --> 0:14:16.314 Would be the anti friction mass, and I was. 0:14:16.354 --> 0:14:19.274 Like, every time I walk past as in office works 0:14:19.274 --> 0:14:22.194 the other day and I walked past them and I went, no, 0:14:22.394 --> 0:14:26.714 like I'm making a there is something that tells me, like, 0:14:26.794 --> 0:14:28.914 it would be great to keep listening to my audiobook 0:14:28.954 --> 0:14:30.994 in the pool, but I'm like, there's something that tells 0:14:31.034 --> 0:14:34.074 me that the friction and the discomfort of swimming in 0:14:34.194 --> 0:14:37.194 silence is good for me. I don't know why. And 0:14:37.234 --> 0:14:40.114 then sometimes I'll get in the car and like not 0:14:40.274 --> 0:14:43.434 put the address in maps and let myself get. 0:14:43.274 --> 0:14:46.594 Lost that Sydney. 0:14:46.634 --> 0:14:49.714 I'm sorry, but there are some It's funny because although 0:14:49.714 --> 0:14:50.994 I'd love to know what you think about this, Jesse, 0:14:51.074 --> 0:14:52.714 because the thing is some of this is like an 0:14:52.754 --> 0:14:57.034 anti technology movement, which is very understandable because, as this 0:14:57.154 --> 0:15:00.274 writer writes, the people who design this stuff are now 0:15:00.314 --> 0:15:03.074 the most powerful people in the world, and they're literally 0:15:03.114 --> 0:15:06.274 taking away our humanity. One thing I really noticed over 0:15:06.354 --> 0:15:09.074 the break because I know some people are using AI 0:15:09.234 --> 0:15:11.274 heats and some people not so much. And I had 0:15:11.274 --> 0:15:12.994 a friend come to stay who says, you know, she 0:15:13.074 --> 0:15:15.714 does a makeup then she puts the picture onto AI 0:15:15.874 --> 0:15:17.874 to tell her, you know what, could she have done better? 0:15:17.914 --> 0:15:21.194 She does everything from her face to her meals, to 0:15:21.234 --> 0:15:23.554 her where I put my pop plant everywhere. And I 0:15:23.754 --> 0:15:26.474 noticed when I do that, when I start asking AI 0:15:26.514 --> 0:15:30.114 for advice, how quickly it feels naughty to ignore the advice, 0:15:30.434 --> 0:15:33.554 Like how quickly you feel like, oh, I'm disobeying the 0:15:33.634 --> 0:15:35.034 robot if I don't do what it's like. 0:15:35.354 --> 0:15:38.434 So that's interesting, and I start losing my internal compass 0:15:38.674 --> 0:15:40.514 of like I find it with parenting. You know, there 0:15:40.514 --> 0:15:42.714 was that quote recently by Sam I think it was 0:15:42.754 --> 0:15:46.274 Sam Oltman who said it's impossible to parent without chat GPT, 0:15:46.474 --> 0:15:49.434 and that made me feel so sick that I was like, no, 0:15:49.514 --> 0:15:53.474 I'm never asking it a question again, because shouldn't it 0:15:53.594 --> 0:15:56.354 be more instinctive rather than every problem you face as 0:15:56.394 --> 0:15:57.914 a parent, you just plug. 0:15:57.594 --> 0:15:58.674 It into the bottle, it's like. 0:15:58.754 --> 0:16:01.354 But also at the same time, I would say that 0:16:01.714 --> 0:16:04.514 thanks to chat GPT, you don't have to deal with 0:16:04.554 --> 0:16:06.914 the anxiety and the stress of having to work it 0:16:06.954 --> 0:16:08.274 out yourself. 0:16:08.194 --> 0:16:09.274 Isn't the point? 0:16:09.394 --> 0:16:10.474 But why would you want that? 0:16:10.594 --> 0:16:11.394 Like, what do you mean. 0:16:11.274 --> 0:16:11.994 It's the point? 0:16:12.194 --> 0:16:15.514 Because then what happens in life when you are thrown 0:16:15.594 --> 0:16:20.034 something stressful, which inevitably we are, which is illness or 0:16:20.434 --> 0:16:25.074 tension or a relationship breakdown or loss or whatever. My 0:16:25.834 --> 0:16:28.394 muscle for that and my sense of how to deal 0:16:28.434 --> 0:16:30.754 with that is just going to be totally depleted because 0:16:30.754 --> 0:16:34.634 I haven't faced any hardship or struggle in months. 0:16:34.354 --> 0:16:34.914 You know what I mean? 0:16:34.994 --> 0:16:38.034 Like, I just think that it's something we need to practice, 0:16:38.034 --> 0:16:44.154 and the satisfaction of having done something hard and worked 0:16:44.194 --> 0:16:48.554 it out yourself. Again, it's like we've got to reparent ourselves, right, 0:16:48.634 --> 0:16:50.514 Like every day I could pick Luner up and put 0:16:50.514 --> 0:16:53.154 her on her chair that she has, But something tells 0:16:53.154 --> 0:16:56.154 me that her doing it herself and kind of nearly 0:16:56.194 --> 0:16:59.154 falling but not getting to the top tells me that 0:16:59.154 --> 0:17:01.354 that's better for her and her own development. And so 0:17:01.434 --> 0:17:03.234 I'm like, I think that's the same for adults. 0:17:03.354 --> 0:17:05.274 I think you're right, But then I think we need 0:17:05.314 --> 0:17:07.513 to be a little bit careful of a kind of 0:17:07.634 --> 0:17:13.554 virtue signaling about rejecting all technological advancement, because technological advancements, 0:17:13.594 --> 0:17:15.354 domestic ones freed women a. 0:17:15.274 --> 0:17:17.394 Lot from the drudgery of It. 0:17:17.474 --> 0:17:19.154 Used to be that if you're going to wash your clothes, 0:17:19.314 --> 0:17:22.314 it would be that's a day long tash, right, I'm. 0:17:22.154 --> 0:17:23.354 Not washing in the scene. 0:17:23.594 --> 0:17:26.314 Although so you know, you could argue that certain technological 0:17:26.314 --> 0:17:29.834 advances changed lives. There are some obvious, massive ones in 0:17:29.914 --> 0:17:31.674 terms of health and all those things, but even just 0:17:31.754 --> 0:17:34.714 social and domestic things that are what we're talking about, 0:17:34.754 --> 0:17:36.234 like whether it makes your life easy to make a 0:17:36.274 --> 0:17:40.513 meal or whatever, No question, have freed many, many people 0:17:40.514 --> 0:17:42.674 and lots of women. But on the other hand, I 0:17:42.714 --> 0:17:44.793 remember you talking about this a while ago when we 0:17:44.794 --> 0:17:47.874 were talking about parenting, Jesse. You said, yes, but now 0:17:47.914 --> 0:17:49.914 we've just created a whole lot of other. 0:17:49.714 --> 0:17:50.874 Things to worry about. 0:17:51.034 --> 0:17:54.273 Yeah, so, like the physical demands of parenting, for example, 0:17:54.314 --> 0:17:56.074 might be a bit easier because you've got all these 0:17:56.234 --> 0:17:57.593 you know, you don't have to hang wash all your 0:17:57.594 --> 0:17:59.793 own nappies, and you don't have to make every bit 0:17:59.834 --> 0:18:02.754 of food from scratch with a pestle and mortar or 0:18:02.794 --> 0:18:06.114 you know whatever. But now it's like, is there enough 0:18:06.114 --> 0:18:08.394 protein in every single mouthful I'm giving it like we've 0:18:08.514 --> 0:18:14.354 raised the bar on perfection that then whispinning around about that. Yeah, exactly, 0:18:14.754 --> 0:18:17.553 So I wonder, but I'd love to know what people 0:18:17.674 --> 0:18:21.394 think that are the conveniences that you could never friction ma, 0:18:22.434 --> 0:18:25.514 because I think that the GPS in your car that one. 0:18:25.594 --> 0:18:29.793 I think that has too many people are and I 0:18:29.834 --> 0:18:31.234 need you guys to start using it. 0:18:32.274 --> 0:18:33.874 I love the bit here where it said do not 0:18:33.914 --> 0:18:34.754 location share. 0:18:35.114 --> 0:18:36.594 It spoke to my very soul. 0:18:36.994 --> 0:18:38.874