1 00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:13,334 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. 2 00:00:14,134 --> 00:00:17,214 Speaker 2: Mumma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:17,254 --> 00:00:18,894 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:22,854 --> 00:00:23,054 Speaker 3: Hi. 5 00:00:23,174 --> 00:00:26,454 Speaker 2: I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma MIA's twice daily news podcast, 6 00:00:26,454 --> 00:00:30,654 Speaker 2: The Quickie. Eighty percent of Ozzie kids believe that bullying 7 00:00:30,814 --> 00:00:33,214 Speaker 2: is an issue at their school. The data shows that 8 00:00:33,254 --> 00:00:36,694 Speaker 2: out of all the OECD countries, Australia comes in second 9 00:00:36,734 --> 00:00:40,094 Speaker 2: for rates of bullying for teenagers, with only Latvia reporting 10 00:00:40,174 --> 00:00:44,374 Speaker 2: higher levels. A child's school life can be seriously impacted 11 00:00:44,374 --> 00:00:46,694 Speaker 2: by bullying, and as we see all too often, it 12 00:00:46,734 --> 00:00:49,654 Speaker 2: can also lead to tragic ends for some families who'll 13 00:00:49,654 --> 00:00:51,614 Speaker 2: never be able to talk it through with their child, 14 00:00:51,734 --> 00:00:54,014 Speaker 2: who felt taking their own life was the only solution. 15 00:00:54,934 --> 00:00:57,494 Speaker 2: But with rightly so much of the focus on the 16 00:00:57,574 --> 00:01:00,574 Speaker 2: victims of bullying, what about the families of children where 17 00:01:00,574 --> 00:01:04,014 Speaker 2: they know their child is doing the bullying. In a 18 00:01:04,054 --> 00:01:06,254 Speaker 2: no judgment zone, we speak to a mum about her 19 00:01:06,374 --> 00:01:09,374 Speaker 2: daughter's experience to find out the motivation and the drivers 20 00:01:09,694 --> 00:01:13,334 Speaker 2: behind why her daughter chooses to bully. But first here's 21 00:01:13,374 --> 00:01:16,574 Speaker 2: the latest from the Cookie Newsroom. Wednesday, December four. The 22 00:01:16,614 --> 00:01:19,694 Speaker 2: Man Police believe is behind the nineteen seventies Easy Street 23 00:01:19,734 --> 00:01:23,134 Speaker 2: murders has touched back down in Melbourne. Harry Coroumblis was 24 00:01:23,214 --> 00:01:26,734 Speaker 2: arrested in Rome's Leonardo da Vinci Airport in September after 25 00:01:26,774 --> 00:01:29,734 Speaker 2: he was connected to the January nineteen seventy seven murders 26 00:01:29,934 --> 00:01:32,614 Speaker 2: of twenty eight year old Suzanne Armstrong and twenty seven 27 00:01:32,694 --> 00:01:35,614 Speaker 2: year old Susan Bartlett, who were found dead from multiple 28 00:01:35,654 --> 00:01:38,534 Speaker 2: stab wounds in their Easy Street home in Collingwood. Miss 29 00:01:38,614 --> 00:01:41,854 Speaker 2: Bartlett's sixteen month old son, Gregory, was left unharmed in 30 00:01:41,894 --> 00:01:46,014 Speaker 2: his cot Police will interview Corumbalis later today. He maintains 31 00:01:46,054 --> 00:01:49,094 Speaker 2: his innocent, telling Italian authorities he was happy to be 32 00:01:49,134 --> 00:01:52,414 Speaker 2: extradited to clear his name. The officer who was found 33 00:01:52,414 --> 00:01:55,414 Speaker 2: guilty of manslaughter over the twenty twenty three taser death 34 00:01:55,454 --> 00:01:58,214 Speaker 2: of ninety five year old nursing home resident Claire Noland 35 00:01:58,414 --> 00:02:01,614 Speaker 2: has been fired from the police force. Nolan's family called 36 00:02:01,654 --> 00:02:04,214 Speaker 2: the move too little, too late, as they continue to 37 00:02:04,294 --> 00:02:07,214 Speaker 2: mourn her death. Missus Nolan, who was suffering symptoms of 38 00:02:07,254 --> 00:02:10,574 Speaker 2: dementia when she was confronted by officers Christian White as 39 00:02:10,574 --> 00:02:12,814 Speaker 2: she held a stake knife in one hand and her 40 00:02:12,814 --> 00:02:16,294 Speaker 2: walking frame in the other fell after being tasered by White, 41 00:02:16,414 --> 00:02:18,894 Speaker 2: hitting her head. She died a week later in hospital. 42 00:02:19,254 --> 00:02:22,294 Speaker 2: White was found guilty of manslaughter last week. He remains 43 00:02:22,334 --> 00:02:25,454 Speaker 2: free on bail ahead of sentencing submissions, which are scheduled 44 00:02:25,454 --> 00:02:28,454 Speaker 2: for February next year. The Princess of Wales has stepped 45 00:02:28,454 --> 00:02:31,974 Speaker 2: out for royal duties, welcoming Katar's Emir and Shaker Juwahar. 46 00:02:32,334 --> 00:02:35,654 Speaker 2: Princess Catherine's presence of the visit shows how important Katari 47 00:02:35,774 --> 00:02:38,974 Speaker 2: is to the UK, the gas rich state investing billions 48 00:02:38,974 --> 00:02:41,494 Speaker 2: in the region while also playing a central role in 49 00:02:41,494 --> 00:02:44,894 Speaker 2: the ceasefire talks between Hamas and Israel. William and Kate 50 00:02:44,934 --> 00:02:47,974 Speaker 2: welcomed the Katari couple before traveling to central London, where 51 00:02:48,014 --> 00:02:50,654 Speaker 2: they met with King Charles. Queen Camilla told not to 52 00:02:50,734 --> 00:02:53,814 Speaker 2: attend the outdoor event on advice from medical staff as 53 00:02:53,814 --> 00:02:57,134 Speaker 2: she continues to recover from a chest infection. Human rights 54 00:02:57,134 --> 00:02:59,694 Speaker 2: advocates are calling on the royals to address issues with 55 00:02:59,734 --> 00:03:03,254 Speaker 2: the couple, including Qatar's restrictive laws on women and members 56 00:03:03,254 --> 00:03:07,214 Speaker 2: of the LGBTQ community, and the issues around migrant workers 57 00:03:07,254 --> 00:03:09,494 Speaker 2: who faced abuse as the country prepared for the two 58 00:03:09,534 --> 00:03:12,494 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two World Cup, saying if they don't, it's 59 00:03:12,534 --> 00:03:16,094 Speaker 2: the equivalent of royal washing Qatar's troubling human rights record. 60 00:03:16,614 --> 00:03:19,894 Speaker 2: Eminem's mum, Debbie Nelson, has died age sixty nine after 61 00:03:19,894 --> 00:03:23,494 Speaker 2: battling lung cancer. Debbie had a rocky relationship with her son, 62 00:03:23,534 --> 00:03:26,174 Speaker 2: who she gave birth to in nineteen seventy two, age 63 00:03:26,214 --> 00:03:30,454 Speaker 2: just eighteen. Eminem's father, Marshall Mathers Junior, abandoned them soon after, 64 00:03:30,614 --> 00:03:33,214 Speaker 2: leaving her to raise him alone. Eminem, who says he 65 00:03:33,294 --> 00:03:36,254 Speaker 2: was raised in poverty and surrounded by drug and alcohol abuses, 66 00:03:36,534 --> 00:03:40,134 Speaker 2: accused Debbie of triggering his own addiction and substance abuse issues, 67 00:03:40,294 --> 00:03:42,414 Speaker 2: saying she added valume to his food when he was 68 00:03:42,414 --> 00:03:45,534 Speaker 2: a kid. Debbie sued him for eleven million dollars after 69 00:03:45,574 --> 00:03:47,734 Speaker 2: the release of songs like My Name Is and Cleaning 70 00:03:47,774 --> 00:03:51,214 Speaker 2: Out My Closet, which reportedly called her out, winning the suit, 71 00:03:51,334 --> 00:03:54,494 Speaker 2: although she reportedly only ended up taking home sixteen hundred 72 00:03:54,534 --> 00:03:57,334 Speaker 2: dollars after the judge ruled she was entitled to twenty 73 00:03:57,374 --> 00:04:00,454 Speaker 2: five thousand dollars, the majority of which went to her lawyers. 74 00:04:00,734 --> 00:04:03,974 Speaker 2: While Eminem has never publicly reconciled with his mother, it's 75 00:04:04,014 --> 00:04:07,574 Speaker 2: believe the relationship was less strained in recent years, fans 76 00:04:07,614 --> 00:04:09,774 Speaker 2: noting that in his song without Me than include it's 77 00:04:09,774 --> 00:04:12,534 Speaker 2: the lyric Fu Debbie, he hasn't been singing that line 78 00:04:12,614 --> 00:04:15,214 Speaker 2: when performing it live. That's what's going on in the 79 00:04:15,214 --> 00:04:17,534 Speaker 2: world today. Next, we speak to a mum whose daughter 80 00:04:17,734 --> 00:04:20,294 Speaker 2: has been the school yard bully and find out it's 81 00:04:20,334 --> 00:04:22,614 Speaker 2: taking years of effort from them to try and get 82 00:04:22,654 --> 00:04:34,014 Speaker 2: it under control. Do you remember your school bully? Many 83 00:04:34,094 --> 00:04:36,534 Speaker 2: of us have had an experience with one, that person 84 00:04:36,574 --> 00:04:39,534 Speaker 2: who for seemingly no reason singled you out as a 85 00:04:39,574 --> 00:04:42,974 Speaker 2: target and decided to make your daily life hell. From 86 00:04:43,094 --> 00:04:46,534 Speaker 2: verbal taunts to threats and physical violence. Your day becomes 87 00:04:46,534 --> 00:04:49,294 Speaker 2: a careful navigation of places and people to avoid in 88 00:04:49,334 --> 00:04:51,534 Speaker 2: the hopes that you won't have to deal with that today. 89 00:04:52,334 --> 00:04:55,054 Speaker 2: And we know that bullying is common in Aussie schools. 90 00:04:55,174 --> 00:04:57,774 Speaker 2: In fact, recent data shows that fifty nine percent of 91 00:04:57,814 --> 00:05:02,294 Speaker 2: Australian students, or approximately two point three million children nationwide, 92 00:05:02,614 --> 00:05:05,414 Speaker 2: have experienced bullying, with one in five facing it on 93 00:05:05,454 --> 00:05:08,414 Speaker 2: a weekly basis. And we know that it doesn't just 94 00:05:08,454 --> 00:05:10,534 Speaker 2: happen in the school yard and or either that it 95 00:05:10,574 --> 00:05:13,934 Speaker 2: follows these kids home on their devices. The bullying extended 96 00:05:13,934 --> 00:05:18,294 Speaker 2: to Instagram, Snapchat, and other online social media channels, and 97 00:05:18,334 --> 00:05:21,854 Speaker 2: we know the devastating impact it can have on bullied children. 98 00:05:22,334 --> 00:05:25,054 Speaker 2: Just last week, in Sydney, twelve year old Charlotte took 99 00:05:25,094 --> 00:05:27,934 Speaker 2: her own life after enduring three years of bullying at 100 00:05:27,934 --> 00:05:32,134 Speaker 2: her school. Her parents revealed that she'd experienced persistent harassment, 101 00:05:32,214 --> 00:05:36,214 Speaker 2: with fellow students weaponizing personal information against her, and despite 102 00:05:36,254 --> 00:05:39,494 Speaker 2: seeking help. Charlotte's mother reported that the onus was placed 103 00:05:39,494 --> 00:05:42,734 Speaker 2: on her daughter to simply cope better, rather than addressing 104 00:05:42,814 --> 00:05:46,694 Speaker 2: the underlying bullying. But while we're all too familiar with 105 00:05:46,814 --> 00:05:50,294 Speaker 2: being bullied, some of us also have memories of being 106 00:05:50,294 --> 00:05:54,454 Speaker 2: the bully. I know I have. I can remember targeting 107 00:05:54,494 --> 00:05:56,494 Speaker 2: one girl in particular in primary school. 108 00:05:56,934 --> 00:05:57,214 Speaker 3: Why. 109 00:05:57,894 --> 00:06:00,294 Speaker 2: I'm really not sure, to be honest, I know in 110 00:06:00,334 --> 00:06:02,934 Speaker 2: the moment, I thought it was funny to see her discomfort, 111 00:06:03,334 --> 00:06:05,454 Speaker 2: and it made me feel powerful when all the other 112 00:06:05,534 --> 00:06:08,774 Speaker 2: kids laughed with me. I think for the most part, 113 00:06:08,974 --> 00:06:12,254 Speaker 2: it was about making and maintaining friendship groups. There would 114 00:06:12,254 --> 00:06:15,454 Speaker 2: be accusations and fights and tussles for who was considered 115 00:06:15,534 --> 00:06:19,334 Speaker 2: the friend to have. Tanya says she found out quite 116 00:06:19,334 --> 00:06:21,494 Speaker 2: early that her daughter was bullying other children. 117 00:06:21,974 --> 00:06:25,934 Speaker 3: For us, it started in daycare, so super early on, 118 00:06:26,374 --> 00:06:30,214 Speaker 3: we had quite a lot of incidite reports coming home 119 00:06:30,574 --> 00:06:34,374 Speaker 3: from daycare, and we had quite a lot of meetings 120 00:06:34,374 --> 00:06:37,454 Speaker 3: with the daycare as to how to deal with this. 121 00:06:38,014 --> 00:06:42,054 Speaker 3: There was a lot of biting and hitting. She's always 122 00:06:42,094 --> 00:06:46,454 Speaker 3: been really articulate, and she would try and talk things 123 00:06:46,494 --> 00:06:48,854 Speaker 3: through with the other children, and they were not quite 124 00:06:48,854 --> 00:06:52,014 Speaker 3: there yet, so she was using her words, they were 125 00:06:52,014 --> 00:06:57,414 Speaker 3: not using theirs, and it would result in some physical altercations. 126 00:06:57,894 --> 00:07:00,174 Speaker 2: She says. A bullying behavior her daughter showed in daycare 127 00:07:00,294 --> 00:07:03,174 Speaker 2: continued into primary school, seemingly coming from a sense of 128 00:07:03,214 --> 00:07:05,214 Speaker 2: frustration when things didn't go her way. 129 00:07:05,734 --> 00:07:10,694 Speaker 3: It does change as she gets older, able to talk 130 00:07:10,774 --> 00:07:13,454 Speaker 3: through things a little bit better now that she's older 131 00:07:13,454 --> 00:07:17,454 Speaker 3: and understands more, but yes, it is still there, and 132 00:07:17,854 --> 00:07:21,934 Speaker 3: for the most part, when she does have issues, she 133 00:07:22,014 --> 00:07:26,094 Speaker 3: doesn't realize what she's done wrong and why she's getting 134 00:07:26,134 --> 00:07:30,094 Speaker 3: in trouble. She's still using her words and trying to 135 00:07:30,334 --> 00:07:35,094 Speaker 3: talk through things, and the other children are not listening 136 00:07:35,134 --> 00:07:38,094 Speaker 3: to her. And she has this real strong sense of 137 00:07:38,614 --> 00:07:41,534 Speaker 3: justice and wants to make everything right, wants everyone to 138 00:07:41,574 --> 00:07:44,254 Speaker 3: do the right thing. And when they don't, that's when 139 00:07:44,294 --> 00:07:48,534 Speaker 3: she's getting upsets. Now that she's older, she's sort of 140 00:07:48,574 --> 00:07:51,894 Speaker 3: getting into that tween age. It is a lot of 141 00:07:51,934 --> 00:07:56,294 Speaker 3: words and the bullying is sort of changing. So she's 142 00:07:56,334 --> 00:08:00,294 Speaker 3: not only receiving the bullying herself, but she's giving it back. 143 00:08:00,934 --> 00:08:03,374 Speaker 2: She thinks this behavior may stem from her being an 144 00:08:03,374 --> 00:08:06,174 Speaker 2: only child and not having a social circle that includes 145 00:08:06,174 --> 00:08:10,014 Speaker 2: other kids. They've been working alongside her teachers from daycare 146 00:08:10,134 --> 00:08:12,334 Speaker 2: up through to her now being ten years old. Panna 147 00:08:12,374 --> 00:08:14,974 Speaker 2: says they do struggle with resetting every year with a 148 00:08:15,014 --> 00:08:15,734 Speaker 2: new class. 149 00:08:16,134 --> 00:08:19,254 Speaker 3: Well, every year is different. We get a new teacher 150 00:08:19,294 --> 00:08:23,334 Speaker 3: every year, of course, so there are different challenges with 151 00:08:23,814 --> 00:08:27,934 Speaker 3: the change over of teachers and staff. But for the 152 00:08:27,974 --> 00:08:31,294 Speaker 3: most part, I think that it's so super important that 153 00:08:31,334 --> 00:08:34,414 Speaker 3: you're working together with the school. That way they have 154 00:08:34,534 --> 00:08:35,694 Speaker 3: your back as well. 155 00:08:36,654 --> 00:08:40,374 Speaker 2: d'Artagnan knows her daughter's behavior is unacceptable and she understands 156 00:08:40,374 --> 00:08:43,134 Speaker 2: why her circle of friends is very small, but she's 157 00:08:43,174 --> 00:08:46,854 Speaker 2: still heartbroken that despite her efforts, it keeps happening, and 158 00:08:46,894 --> 00:08:49,294 Speaker 2: she sees how this is impacting her daughter's life. 159 00:08:49,814 --> 00:08:53,614 Speaker 3: We have felt a lot of guilt over the years. 160 00:08:53,974 --> 00:08:56,854 Speaker 3: It's hard for us to see that she's not invited 161 00:08:56,894 --> 00:09:00,254 Speaker 3: to birthday parties, and we create birthday parties for her 162 00:09:00,294 --> 00:09:04,334 Speaker 3: and no children come, so we do feel the effects 163 00:09:04,574 --> 00:09:08,654 Speaker 3: of this for her as well. It's not easy. Even 164 00:09:08,894 --> 00:09:13,814 Speaker 3: some the parents' attitudes have changed over time. Sometimes the 165 00:09:13,974 --> 00:09:17,374 Speaker 3: parents are quite understanding in the beginning, and then they 166 00:09:17,414 --> 00:09:19,974 Speaker 3: get tired of it after a while. When we do 167 00:09:20,094 --> 00:09:23,374 Speaker 3: come across a good friend with good parents, we try 168 00:09:23,374 --> 00:09:26,654 Speaker 3: and hold on to them, but it doesn't always work out. 169 00:09:27,854 --> 00:09:30,894 Speaker 2: Despite the struggle, Tenya knows they have to keep trying 170 00:09:30,894 --> 00:09:32,934 Speaker 2: for their daughter's sake and for the sakes of the 171 00:09:33,014 --> 00:09:33,854 Speaker 2: children around her. 172 00:09:34,294 --> 00:09:37,774 Speaker 3: We are definitely seeing positive changes as she grows, but 173 00:09:37,854 --> 00:09:40,574 Speaker 3: it's just that the challenges are changing as she grows 174 00:09:40,574 --> 00:09:44,654 Speaker 3: as well, so we are constantly talking through everything, the 175 00:09:44,694 --> 00:09:48,654 Speaker 3: good and the bad. I hope that she learns that 176 00:09:48,774 --> 00:09:52,214 Speaker 3: empathy as she grows and it becomes second nature to 177 00:09:52,254 --> 00:09:55,734 Speaker 3: her that we don't have to keep pointing out what 178 00:09:55,774 --> 00:09:59,054 Speaker 3: she's done wrong and the why it's wrong. That she 179 00:09:59,134 --> 00:10:02,974 Speaker 3: will know and hopefully get a better control over her self. 180 00:10:03,374 --> 00:10:07,614 Speaker 3: I think that it's important that parents know that we 181 00:10:07,734 --> 00:10:11,174 Speaker 3: are trying and it's not always a kid that's from 182 00:10:11,214 --> 00:10:15,294 Speaker 3: a bad situation that you can have the perfect situation 183 00:10:15,454 --> 00:10:16,894 Speaker 3: and still have these issues. 184 00:10:18,094 --> 00:10:20,814 Speaker 2: So how do we tackle this from the bully's perspective? 185 00:10:21,214 --> 00:10:23,414 Speaker 2: How do we break them out of their damaging behavior 186 00:10:23,734 --> 00:10:26,894 Speaker 2: and make school life easier for both their targets and themselves. 187 00:10:27,574 --> 00:10:31,534 Speaker 2: Deirdre Brandna is a child psychologist and author didri The 188 00:10:31,574 --> 00:10:33,614 Speaker 2: one thing we commonly see in a situation where a 189 00:10:33,694 --> 00:10:36,574 Speaker 2: child is accused of bullying is that the parents immediately 190 00:10:36,574 --> 00:10:39,374 Speaker 2: defend their child, which is completely normal. You don't want 191 00:10:39,374 --> 00:10:41,774 Speaker 2: to believe that your child could be doing something awful. 192 00:10:42,054 --> 00:10:44,254 Speaker 2: But how do we learn to accept that maybe our 193 00:10:44,374 --> 00:10:46,654 Speaker 2: child isn't who we think they are in that moment 194 00:10:46,694 --> 00:10:49,574 Speaker 2: and actively deal with the issues causing that bullying problem. 195 00:10:49,894 --> 00:10:53,534 Speaker 1: As a parent, Claire, we're always so keen to see 196 00:10:53,574 --> 00:10:56,054 Speaker 1: our children in the most positive light. And I think 197 00:10:56,134 --> 00:11:00,094 Speaker 1: parents react like this because when we get negative information 198 00:11:00,134 --> 00:11:03,294 Speaker 1: about our child, innately we think what have I done? 199 00:11:03,814 --> 00:11:06,334 Speaker 1: I've mucked up as a parent, you know, first of all, 200 00:11:06,334 --> 00:11:09,094 Speaker 1: we often reject it, but secondly it comes back to 201 00:11:09,134 --> 00:11:12,494 Speaker 1: the guilt of what am I doing wrong? How did 202 00:11:12,494 --> 00:11:15,254 Speaker 1: it end up like this? So the first thing I 203 00:11:15,294 --> 00:11:19,454 Speaker 1: say to every parent is this is not about blaming. 204 00:11:19,614 --> 00:11:25,174 Speaker 1: It's not about responding in an overt emotional way. It's 205 00:11:25,174 --> 00:11:28,854 Speaker 1: about taking the information that you've been given and looking 206 00:11:29,054 --> 00:11:31,534 Speaker 1: at working and problem solving. 207 00:11:31,614 --> 00:11:35,494 Speaker 2: Through this, can we ask what drives bullying behavior? And 208 00:11:35,494 --> 00:11:37,654 Speaker 2: obviously it's not the same for everybody, but what are 209 00:11:37,694 --> 00:11:40,174 Speaker 2: some of the reasons why a child might end up 210 00:11:40,214 --> 00:11:41,214 Speaker 2: bullying their peers? 211 00:11:41,694 --> 00:11:44,454 Speaker 1: So we know and research tells us this clear that 212 00:11:45,134 --> 00:11:48,294 Speaker 1: most of the reasons why children bully is to become 213 00:11:48,334 --> 00:11:51,334 Speaker 1: more popular. It's a way that they believe they're going 214 00:11:51,374 --> 00:11:56,414 Speaker 1: to achieve respect, they're going to have influence, and they're 215 00:11:56,454 --> 00:11:59,614 Speaker 1: going to have some sort of leadership over their peers. 216 00:11:59,974 --> 00:12:04,574 Speaker 1: But sadly, that is at the expense of other children. 217 00:12:05,134 --> 00:12:08,574 Speaker 1: So the desire to fit in and be seen to 218 00:12:08,614 --> 00:12:12,134 Speaker 1: be king of the group comes at a cost for 219 00:12:12,254 --> 00:12:12,894 Speaker 1: other children. 220 00:12:13,614 --> 00:12:17,294 Speaker 2: What about this idea that kids who've been bullied can 221 00:12:17,374 --> 00:12:20,134 Speaker 2: then turn that around into becoming bullies themselves. 222 00:12:20,414 --> 00:12:23,574 Speaker 1: There is some evidence it does show that, because if 223 00:12:23,574 --> 00:12:27,454 Speaker 1: you're being bullied, it often means that you're being excluded 224 00:12:27,654 --> 00:12:31,054 Speaker 1: from a friendship group. You retreat because you're being bullied, 225 00:12:31,254 --> 00:12:35,494 Speaker 1: and you become an outlier, perhaps, which is desperately sad 226 00:12:35,574 --> 00:12:38,894 Speaker 1: in itself. So some ways, in an effort to try 227 00:12:38,934 --> 00:12:43,174 Speaker 1: to reassearch yourself to get back to another place of 228 00:12:43,534 --> 00:12:48,014 Speaker 1: feeling good, you start to mimic the same behavior that's 229 00:12:48,054 --> 00:12:51,694 Speaker 1: being projected towards you, and often clear what we see 230 00:12:51,734 --> 00:12:55,374 Speaker 1: is it may not be more bullying with their peers. 231 00:12:55,974 --> 00:13:00,894 Speaker 1: It might be bullying towards younger children or sometimes siblings. 232 00:13:00,894 --> 00:13:01,334 Speaker 3: At home. 233 00:13:01,734 --> 00:13:06,174 Speaker 1: We often see, you know, particularly negative behavior happening towards 234 00:13:06,254 --> 00:13:07,694 Speaker 1: their brothers and sisters. 235 00:13:08,094 --> 00:13:10,974 Speaker 2: You touched on something there that they're reflecting that behavior. 236 00:13:11,414 --> 00:13:13,974 Speaker 2: Could we also chase that back to reflecting behavior they're 237 00:13:13,974 --> 00:13:14,694 Speaker 2: seeing at home. 238 00:13:15,134 --> 00:13:20,214 Speaker 1: Absolutely so. Unfortunately, a lot of our children who become 239 00:13:20,334 --> 00:13:26,854 Speaker 1: bullies have learnt inappropriate interactions from the home environment. And 240 00:13:26,894 --> 00:13:30,854 Speaker 1: we know that our little ones are watching everything we do, 241 00:13:31,294 --> 00:13:34,774 Speaker 1: and sometimes as adults, as parents, we need to reflect 242 00:13:34,774 --> 00:13:37,454 Speaker 1: on our own behavior. We might not see it as bullying, 243 00:13:37,854 --> 00:13:40,494 Speaker 1: but particularly in this day and age, with the way 244 00:13:40,534 --> 00:13:45,374 Speaker 1: we respond to statements in media what's happening on our 245 00:13:45,414 --> 00:13:50,894 Speaker 1: own instagrams, and we start making unhelpful statements that we 246 00:13:50,974 --> 00:13:53,534 Speaker 1: would perceive as adult bullying. And if our children are 247 00:13:53,534 --> 00:13:56,974 Speaker 1: exposed to that, then that's how they learn their interaction skills. 248 00:13:57,534 --> 00:13:58,414 Speaker 3: That's how they. 249 00:13:58,374 --> 00:14:01,294 Speaker 1: Learn to get ahead, you know, to be the most popular. 250 00:14:01,814 --> 00:14:05,494 Speaker 1: It is about putting others down to get that power. 251 00:14:05,934 --> 00:14:06,094 Speaker 3: You know. 252 00:14:06,134 --> 00:14:08,574 Speaker 1: One of the things I always say to all of 253 00:14:08,614 --> 00:14:11,534 Speaker 1: my clients and schools that I work with, there's no 254 00:14:11,614 --> 00:14:15,734 Speaker 1: such thing as a bad kid, and kids engage in 255 00:14:15,854 --> 00:14:20,014 Speaker 1: lots of behavior, but it's about understanding what is behind 256 00:14:20,054 --> 00:14:23,054 Speaker 1: the behavior, and that's what we absolutely need to be 257 00:14:23,094 --> 00:14:25,654 Speaker 1: able to do if we're going to make a difference 258 00:14:25,774 --> 00:14:27,574 Speaker 1: and if we're going to resolve this issue. 259 00:14:27,894 --> 00:14:29,694 Speaker 2: Can you give us an example of when you have 260 00:14:30,334 --> 00:14:33,454 Speaker 2: been working with a child who has been bullying others 261 00:14:33,814 --> 00:14:36,814 Speaker 2: and they've had that realization moment that what they're doing 262 00:14:36,894 --> 00:14:41,054 Speaker 2: is actually really emotionally and physically impacting the kid that 263 00:14:41,094 --> 00:14:44,534 Speaker 2: they are targeting. Is there a moment where realization does 264 00:14:44,534 --> 00:14:44,894 Speaker 2: set in. 265 00:14:45,654 --> 00:14:47,734 Speaker 1: There is a moment, and that can actually be quite 266 00:14:47,734 --> 00:14:50,894 Speaker 1: heartbreaking to witness, and it can take a little while 267 00:14:51,014 --> 00:14:53,574 Speaker 1: to get there, because when we're working with children who 268 00:14:53,614 --> 00:14:57,814 Speaker 1: participate in this behavior, we need to be able to 269 00:14:57,854 --> 00:15:02,814 Speaker 1: be supportive and understanding. By no means are we condoning 270 00:15:03,014 --> 00:15:06,134 Speaker 1: the behavior, but we need to reach out to them 271 00:15:06,134 --> 00:15:08,254 Speaker 1: and say, clearly, something's going on. 272 00:15:08,374 --> 00:15:08,614 Speaker 3: For you. 273 00:15:09,534 --> 00:15:12,174 Speaker 1: We're here to help you get through that, We're here 274 00:15:12,214 --> 00:15:16,614 Speaker 1: to help you have successful relationships with your peers. And 275 00:15:16,894 --> 00:15:20,734 Speaker 1: also it's really important when children have participated in this behavior, 276 00:15:20,734 --> 00:15:23,774 Speaker 1: when they understand the impact of what they've done, that 277 00:15:23,854 --> 00:15:29,734 Speaker 1: we work towards repairing relationships, because if we don't that 278 00:15:29,934 --> 00:15:33,414 Speaker 1: child who is a bully, who's participated in this behavior 279 00:15:33,534 --> 00:15:36,254 Speaker 1: recognize what they've done, if we don't give them the 280 00:15:36,294 --> 00:15:41,094 Speaker 1: help and support, that can have ongoing, lifelong effects. Just 281 00:15:41,134 --> 00:15:43,734 Speaker 1: as much as those who are the victims of bullying. 282 00:15:43,934 --> 00:15:46,854 Speaker 2: What are the chances a bully will actually recognize their 283 00:15:46,854 --> 00:15:49,214 Speaker 2: own behavior if their parents are not involved in that 284 00:15:49,334 --> 00:15:53,894 Speaker 2: process of understanding and targeting those deep down behaviors. 285 00:15:54,174 --> 00:15:59,254 Speaker 1: It's very, very difficult to see a change in bullying 286 00:15:59,334 --> 00:16:04,054 Speaker 1: behavior if we don't have a network of people supporting 287 00:16:04,094 --> 00:16:08,814 Speaker 1: this child. So that includes the school, that includes the parents. 288 00:16:09,654 --> 00:16:11,934 Speaker 1: None of us want to think that our children are 289 00:16:12,014 --> 00:16:15,334 Speaker 1: mucking up and making mistakes. It's the most vulnerable things 290 00:16:15,334 --> 00:16:18,694 Speaker 1: the parent we witness. But our kids are going to 291 00:16:18,734 --> 00:16:22,214 Speaker 1: miss up and as parents, we need to own that 292 00:16:22,934 --> 00:16:24,974 Speaker 1: and we need to be able to do everything we 293 00:16:25,054 --> 00:16:27,934 Speaker 1: can to be able to support our children to become 294 00:16:28,414 --> 00:16:34,214 Speaker 1: good humans in this world, and unfortunately, for those families 295 00:16:34,214 --> 00:16:37,054 Speaker 1: who are in denial, this can be a very long 296 00:16:37,134 --> 00:16:41,454 Speaker 1: journey and it doesn't always end with very good outcomes. 297 00:16:42,134 --> 00:16:44,654 Speaker 2: Can you give us an idea, Deaty on what we 298 00:16:44,694 --> 00:16:47,814 Speaker 2: can say to start the conversation with our kids if 299 00:16:47,814 --> 00:16:50,334 Speaker 2: we do suspect they are bullying or have had evidence 300 00:16:50,334 --> 00:16:52,534 Speaker 2: that they are, like, how do we open up this 301 00:16:52,614 --> 00:16:56,054 Speaker 2: conversation and how do we start having the deep discussions 302 00:16:56,054 --> 00:16:57,494 Speaker 2: about it. 303 00:16:57,494 --> 00:17:01,494 Speaker 1: It's about having connection and that takes time. So we 304 00:17:01,534 --> 00:17:05,094 Speaker 1: need to have situations where we don't accuse children. You know, 305 00:17:05,254 --> 00:17:07,094 Speaker 1: I've got a call from the school. I heard this 306 00:17:07,214 --> 00:17:11,334 Speaker 1: about you. They're going to clam up. They're going to deny, deny, deny. 307 00:17:11,854 --> 00:17:16,374 Speaker 1: So when we've got those moments, we need to say, Hey, 308 00:17:16,894 --> 00:17:19,214 Speaker 1: I'm wondering how things are going for you at school. 309 00:17:19,854 --> 00:17:23,454 Speaker 1: I've been hearing some things that Wow, your friendship group's 310 00:17:23,534 --> 00:17:27,574 Speaker 1: going through some challenges and I'm not sure what your 311 00:17:27,654 --> 00:17:29,894 Speaker 1: role is in this and do we need to talk 312 00:17:29,934 --> 00:17:32,934 Speaker 1: about what being a good friend is like, what looking 313 00:17:33,014 --> 00:17:36,774 Speaker 1: after each other looks like. Often our children will find 314 00:17:36,814 --> 00:17:41,214 Speaker 1: these conversations really uncomfortable. Claire, we need to revisit them 315 00:17:41,654 --> 00:17:45,294 Speaker 1: time and time again, and because a lot of the 316 00:17:45,334 --> 00:17:49,334 Speaker 1: bullying that we're witnessing nowadays is what we correlation or bullying, 317 00:17:49,494 --> 00:17:53,534 Speaker 1: and this is more evident, particularly online. It's really important 318 00:17:53,534 --> 00:17:56,974 Speaker 1: that we have honest conversations with our children a bad 319 00:17:57,014 --> 00:18:02,534 Speaker 1: expected behavior as a digital human because it's very very easy, 320 00:18:03,254 --> 00:18:08,774 Speaker 1: much easier to participate in exclusion and online bullying than 321 00:18:08,854 --> 00:18:12,214 Speaker 1: actually the few called bullying at school. So we need 322 00:18:12,254 --> 00:18:15,454 Speaker 1: to be vigilant about the way our children is showing 323 00:18:15,534 --> 00:18:18,454 Speaker 1: up on social media, and we need to model that, 324 00:18:18,894 --> 00:18:21,254 Speaker 1: and we need to revisit that time and time again. 325 00:18:22,014 --> 00:18:25,094 Speaker 1: One of the reasons why children are often reluctant to 326 00:18:25,134 --> 00:18:28,934 Speaker 1: admit that their behavior has been problematic with their peers 327 00:18:29,254 --> 00:18:31,214 Speaker 1: is that they think we're going to take phones off 328 00:18:31,294 --> 00:18:34,134 Speaker 1: them or they're going to lose privileges. We need to 329 00:18:34,134 --> 00:18:36,134 Speaker 1: be about we need to help you to become a 330 00:18:36,174 --> 00:18:40,174 Speaker 1: good friend. We need you to be able to respond 331 00:18:40,214 --> 00:18:42,854 Speaker 1: to your friends in a true way that means that 332 00:18:42,934 --> 00:18:47,014 Speaker 1: you are going to have successful friendships, because you might 333 00:18:47,054 --> 00:18:49,694 Speaker 1: think this behavior is okay, but it's actually not. 334 00:18:51,294 --> 00:18:53,174 Speaker 2: Quite a few parents and teachers weighed in on this 335 00:18:53,254 --> 00:18:56,214 Speaker 2: discussion on the out Loudest Facebook page from teachers who 336 00:18:56,214 --> 00:18:58,934 Speaker 2: said that most kids will cop some bullying and will 337 00:18:58,974 --> 00:19:02,014 Speaker 2: also bully other kids during their school careers, to parents 338 00:19:02,054 --> 00:19:07,294 Speaker 2: who advised they monitor children's group chats religiously. Many suggested 339 00:19:07,374 --> 00:19:10,614 Speaker 2: holding meetings with the school, especially with your child's teachers, 340 00:19:10,654 --> 00:19:13,734 Speaker 2: to find out exactly what's happening from their perspective, And 341 00:19:13,774 --> 00:19:16,174 Speaker 2: from another parent of a bully who said she was 342 00:19:16,214 --> 00:19:18,974 Speaker 2: shocked to hear it was her son instigating this behavior, 343 00:19:19,294 --> 00:19:21,174 Speaker 2: and she said they're now teaching him how to be 344 00:19:21,214 --> 00:19:24,614 Speaker 2: a good friend, organizing playdates to connect and build friendships 345 00:19:24,614 --> 00:19:27,454 Speaker 2: with his peers, and so far she says it's going well. 346 00:19:27,654 --> 00:19:31,254 Speaker 2: The bullying has decreased. Some talk it to more extreme measures. 347 00:19:31,534 --> 00:19:33,614 Speaker 2: One poster said her aunt found out that her cousin 348 00:19:33,694 --> 00:19:36,574 Speaker 2: had been online bullying another girl, so she drove her 349 00:19:36,574 --> 00:19:38,734 Speaker 2: to her house, made her apologize to the girl and 350 00:19:38,774 --> 00:19:41,734 Speaker 2: her parents and admit what she'd been doing. She reportedly 351 00:19:41,774 --> 00:19:44,494 Speaker 2: never forgot the real world consequences of her actions again. 352 00:19:45,054 --> 00:19:47,614 Speaker 2: But Tania and her daughter, they're taking it one step 353 00:19:47,654 --> 00:19:48,134 Speaker 2: at a time. 354 00:19:48,654 --> 00:19:52,254 Speaker 3: She's ten years old and still the biggest goal is 355 00:19:52,294 --> 00:19:55,534 Speaker 3: to be invited to a sleepover. Arm still hasn't happened. 356 00:19:57,134 --> 00:20:00,134 Speaker 3: But we are. We're hopeful someday. 357 00:20:01,654 --> 00:20:03,374 Speaker 2: Thanks for taking the time to feed your minds with 358 00:20:03,454 --> 00:20:06,254 Speaker 2: us today. The quickie is produced by me, Claire Murphy 359 00:20:06,254 --> 00:20:09,614 Speaker 2: and our executive producer Taylor Strano, with audio production I 360 00:20:09,734 --> 00:20:10,494 Speaker 2: take in, said Lack.