Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mama mar acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to
Speaker 2: Mama Mea Out Loud and to our Friday show where
Speaker 2: we take a big break from the news cycle today friends,
Speaker 2: It's Friday, the fourteenth of June, and I'm Hollywaynwright. And
Speaker 2: if you missed Monday's app this week because it was
Speaker 2: a public holiday, we released a subscriber episode for all
Speaker 2: of our listeners about intuition. How do you know when
Speaker 2: you can trust your gut?
Speaker 1: I'm mea Friedman And on Wednesday this week we had
Speaker 1: one of the great shows.
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: We talked about the return of the lad mag We
Speaker 1: had to explain to m the difference between a.
Speaker 3: Coffee time a bit of an e grageration, and.
Speaker 1: We also unpacked gray rock theory, which sounds like not biology.
Speaker 1: What's the one with minerals geology? Geology? No, No, it
Speaker 1: wasn't that ology. It's actually I like to call it
Speaker 1: the gray rock technic, which I have been adopting every
Speaker 1: day since because it can really help you in conversations,
Speaker 1: especially if you have to do with psychopaths, narcissus, or
Speaker 1: people who are very shouty.
Speaker 3: Why are looking at me when you're saying psychopaths.
Speaker 1: Because I'm actually thinking all of those things to describe me.
Speaker 1: So I'm projecting to listen to any of those episodes
Speaker 1: about any of those things as a link in our
Speaker 1: show notes.
Speaker 3: And I'm m Vernon. I'm filling in for Jesse again.
Speaker 3: I'm also on our daily entertainment podcast A.
Speaker 2: Spill on today's show why are People So Furious with
Speaker 2: One handsome, cheating Christian Husband? And our recommendations, which include
Speaker 2: a now iconic Ossie comedy, A Single Woman's Fury and
Speaker 2: me as New Obsession, and our best and worsts, which
Speaker 2: include side Friends, contagious Bleeding and influencer A I mean
Speaker 2: influenza A influence.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I'm the influencer A influencer.
Speaker 2: But first, M Vernon and Katie missed it.
Speaker 3: A groom is fighting with her sister because she doesn't
Speaker 3: want to attend his wedding in the nude? What so
Speaker 3: A Reddit uses post went viral after the sister of
Speaker 3: the groom to be bad or in what I would
Speaker 3: describe as an exposed family.
Speaker 1: Matter, oh, I see what you did there?
Speaker 3: Do you see that I was expressing a laugh and
Speaker 3: I got a.
Speaker 1: I hate I know you do.
Speaker 3: So, she wrote, whatever consenting adults do in their private
Speaker 3: lives is none of my concern, and that extends to
Speaker 3: my brother and his fiancee being naturists. However, I do
Speaker 3: take an issue with them being angry that I won't
Speaker 3: attend their wedding. So she went on to say that
Speaker 3: the wedding and reception is taking place at a naturist resort.
Speaker 2: So nature ists are nudists, right, Yes, people who like
Speaker 2: to be naked. Yes, And they met at a naked resort.
Speaker 3: They met at a naked resort, so there's some significance
Speaker 3: of having the wedding at the resort. His sister tried
Speaker 3: so much. She was like, she asked them, can I
Speaker 3: wear normal wedding clothes? And they were like, no, like
Speaker 3: the rest of the resort, you have to be nudes.
Speaker 1: Off.
Speaker 3: She even said I will pray for another reception, which
Speaker 3: just made them more angry. She said, I'm not comfortable
Speaker 3: being nude in front of a large crowd of strangers.
Speaker 3: I am definitely not comfortable walking up the aisle arm
Speaker 3: in arm with the groomsmen I've never met, and we're
Speaker 3: both nude or standing in front of everyone during the ceremony,
Speaker 3: or being in all the photographs. I am not saying
Speaker 3: they should in a nature's resort. I'm just uncomfortable with
Speaker 3: attending the wedding if I'm required to be nude for it.
Speaker 1: Look, I think that's fair enough.
Speaker 3: She tried, She gave an option.
Speaker 1: It's a destination wedding, but a dress code that.
Speaker 3: Nobody destination that we don't want to go to.
Speaker 1: I feel like this is a bridge too far. I
Speaker 1: think that guests need to consent, and I guess not
Speaker 1: consenting they should respect that.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine being at a nerdest wedding? Can you imagine?
Speaker 2: Because you know how one of the things about weddings
Speaker 2: is it brings everybody together, old young, add to half
Speaker 2: of them, and then we're all naked and we're all
Speaker 2: looking at each other. And you know that the bride,
Speaker 2: because she's the bride, is going to somehow be the
Speaker 2: hottest nude person and she'll have a.
Speaker 1: Veil as well on her pubes.
Speaker 2: And she that's why she put the bouquet.
Speaker 1: She'd put a pube veil. Oh No, she's got a
Speaker 1: veil on her head in the bouquet, just tucked into
Speaker 1: her pubes.
Speaker 2: My friend's brother had a medieval themed wedding, like one.
Speaker 3: Of those pointy hats with some veil of it and
Speaker 3: then they duel, they duel half it's like mead and
Speaker 3: pigs and stuff.
Speaker 2: And she was just like, I was like, I wouldn't
Speaker 2: be going to fine though this. No, No, No, actually.
Speaker 1: Know someone I just remembered I know someone who had
Speaker 1: a nude wedding. No, I didn't go, obviously, it was
Speaker 1: before I knew him, and it was a really really
Speaker 1: long time ago, and it was kind of when he
Speaker 1: was going through a bit of a hippie phase. But
Speaker 1: I don't know if everybody had to be nude. I
Speaker 1: think the celebrant was nude. I don't know if the
Speaker 1: guests had to be nude, though, but he and his
Speaker 1: wife were nude, and I think the celebrant was nude.
Speaker 1: And were they also in a pool or Am I
Speaker 1: getting that confused with home births?
Speaker 3: If you had to go to a nude wedding, would
Speaker 3: you shave?
Speaker 2: There is no world in which I have to go
Speaker 2: to a new wedding, But you know what I was
Speaker 2: thinking about. One of the reasons why this story is
Speaker 2: so good is that because for nudists, they don't see
Speaker 2: being nude is anything sexual, anything strange. They're like, this
Speaker 2: is very natural. But the whole point of a wedding
Speaker 2: is there's all kinds of different people there. Even though
Speaker 2: the nudists might be super chill, they would definitely be
Speaker 2: like creepy Uncle Frank and like oh no, no, no,
Speaker 2: no no.
Speaker 4: No, signing up fresh and madisone and like literally saying
Speaker 4: I want to have an affair. When I got to
Speaker 4: that point, it's like, what the heck, how did I
Speaker 4: get here? Like several years ago, I would have never
Speaker 4: just blatantly chosen to have an affair.
Speaker 1: One couple that definitely did not have a nude wedding
Speaker 1: is Nia and Sam Raider. Now those names might not
Speaker 1: be imediately familiar to you, but this week on No Filter,
Speaker 1: I interviewed this couple who are a deeply religious Christian
Speaker 1: couple who are also vloggers. So that's video blogger. I
Speaker 1: sound like I'm.
Speaker 3: Trying back the lady. They were bloggers.
Speaker 1: It was like before influencers, there were people who would
Speaker 1: just show you around their family.
Speaker 3: It was big twenty eleven, twenty.
Speaker 1: Fourteen, exactly when it was like, come inside our family.
Speaker 1: And so Sam and Nia were these online influencers and
Speaker 1: they had this quite successful YouTube channel and too long,
Speaker 1: don't read. He cheated on her. He joined Ashley Madison,
Speaker 1: the website for cheaters, and then when there was a
Speaker 1: big data league, the world found out and it was
Speaker 1: a big scandal. Now the way that they became famous
Speaker 1: that some people might remember again, this was a real
Speaker 1: twenty eleven thing. I remember it because I'm sure we
Speaker 1: did a story about it on Mama Maya. When you're
Speaker 1: a family vlogger, you have to kind of think of
Speaker 1: different stunts that could get people to your channel. And
Speaker 1: so she was pregnant with I think their second or
Speaker 1: third child, and he had this idea, because he was
Speaker 1: a nurse, that he would bring a pregnancy test time
Speaker 1: from the hospital and he would test her urine in
Speaker 1: the toilet. I remember, Yeah, he could break the pregnancy
Speaker 1: news to her before she knew.
Speaker 4: So here I am, and I'm so excited. I have
Speaker 4: a specimen. I don't know if it'll throw it off
Speaker 4: because it's all diluted. But I also brought almost pregnancy test,
Speaker 4: and this time around, I'm going to be doing the announcement.
Speaker 4: At least I hoped. I hoped so.
Speaker 1: Bad she's pregnant, which, when you think about it, is
Speaker 1: a great sort of story. It's a great piece of
Speaker 1: content if you want to look at it objectively. And
Speaker 1: it did. It went viral. They made this video, went viral.
Speaker 1: They did all these interviews, so that's kind of how
Speaker 1: they became quite famous. And then the Ashley Madison thing happened.
Speaker 1: And the reason that they're in the news again is
Speaker 1: because of this documentary that came out that we spoke
Speaker 1: about on the show. There was sort of two couples
Speaker 1: that were interviewed for that or one woman whose husband
Speaker 1: took his life after his name was leaked, and then
Speaker 1: Sam and Nia who got through it. They nearly split up,
Speaker 1: but they didn't. They got through it. I think they've
Speaker 1: since had another child. It's now ten years ago and
Speaker 1: I reached out to them for a no filter interview.
Speaker 1: They said yes, because they've written a book. They sat
Speaker 1: down in their bedroom a couple of weeks ago to
Speaker 1: do this interview with me. It was very intimate because
Speaker 1: literally their bed was in the background and I'm talking
Speaker 1: to these two strangers about their sex life and his
Speaker 1: affairs and all the different ways in which he cheated.
Speaker 1: The reaction to this has been really interesting in that
Speaker 1: people are absolutely furious with him. Like the comments on
Speaker 1: the social media post just around my no Filter interview,
Speaker 1: Oh my.
Speaker 2: God, they hate Nobody buys it, do they? So the
Speaker 2: comments that I saw are a mixture of wants to cheat,
Speaker 2: always a cheat, to he's a narcissist, douchebag, just absolutely
Speaker 2: uniformly negative about him. One of the things I find
Speaker 2: interesting about that is that this did happen ten years ago, right,
Speaker 2: So what we're actually if you strip away all the
Speaker 2: kind of Ashley Madison of it all, what we're actually
Speaker 2: looking at is a couple telling us how they got.
Speaker 1: Through infidelity for dalla, which is something that Esther Perell,
Speaker 1: author of Mating in Captivity, talks about a lot. She says,
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be a deal breaker. In some relationships,
Speaker 1: it is, but they're an example of a couple in
Speaker 1: which it wasn't. But what I'm interested to understand, I
Speaker 1: know you've both listened to the interview. Why is a
Speaker 1: friend so angry at him because he's a guy who said,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I won't do it again.
Speaker 3: Em For me personally, I find as someone who's been
Speaker 3: single majority of her twenties, as well as someone who's
Speaker 3: non exclusively dated multiple people at the same time, I
Speaker 3: find the idea of cheating so fascinating because I can't
Speaker 3: grasp what people get out of cheating that they don't
Speaker 3: get from their relationship.
Speaker 1: But did you listen to what Sam said? He basically
Speaker 1: said they wanted to lose their virginity to each other.
Speaker 1: She was fifteen when they met. I think he was
Speaker 1: eighteen or nineteen. They fell hard and fast in love,
Speaker 1: but they were very torn and they ended up having sex,
Speaker 1: but then they felt terrible about it because they wanted
Speaker 1: to save sex until marriage. So then they got married,
Speaker 1: and on paper they hadn't slept with or done anything
Speaker 1: with anyone. And he was basically saying.
Speaker 4: You know, like in the documentary movies, I was so
Speaker 4: fascinated by romance and that aspect of my marriage that
Speaker 4: a novelty wore off and that was a bummer for me.
Speaker 4: So I wanted to keep seeking that attention in that romance.
Speaker 3: Even like we're dating. That's why so many men in
Speaker 3: my experience, stay single because they get like these little
Speaker 3: glimpses of attention that women who are single get constantly,
Speaker 3: where it becomes like then a bit boring.
Speaker 2: Single women get a lot of attention.
Speaker 3: I think it's much easier for single women to have
Speaker 3: like casual sex than it is for men to have casualty.
Speaker 2: Why do you think that, Well, yes, it is because
Speaker 2: you can choose to because there are men will do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what you mean?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 3: And for me, it was just really interesting because I
Speaker 3: think even if he was single before that, it would
Speaker 3: have been hard for him to have like sexual relationships
Speaker 3: before his wife. And then the minute he would have
Speaker 3: gone attention from someone else who wasn't his wife, he's like,
Speaker 3: I've never done this before, so let's try.
Speaker 2: What did you think about him? Were you one of
Speaker 2: the angry people?
Speaker 3: I feel really bad saying this, but I was more
Speaker 3: just upset with her being in that interview and watching
Speaker 3: him talk about it. It almost felt like she was
Speaker 3: endorsing a behavior that I have grown up learning that
Speaker 3: you should never endorse from a man and never accept.
Speaker 1: But why was she endorsing it? Because like she wasn't like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was fine and She wasn't like, yeah, he might
Speaker 1: do it again, I'm just a door mat like. She
Speaker 1: was very honest about the fact that they went to
Speaker 1: the brink and that she really did think about divorce
Speaker 1: in the beginning.
Speaker 4: The early days. It was convinced like we were getting
Speaker 4: a divorce. There was no other way around it.
Speaker 1: Why people angry.
Speaker 2: One of my theories about this is that cheating is
Speaker 2: one of those things that we all accept happens, but
Speaker 2: you're never supposed to admit that it happens, do you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. It's like people are more comfortable
Speaker 2: with the idea that in long term relationships people are
Speaker 2: cheating if we don't talk about it. But if you
Speaker 2: talk about it and you say I did, or I
Speaker 2: wanted to, or you know, I've thought about it or
Speaker 2: cheated or he did and we got through it, people
Speaker 2: are outraged. And it's really hypocritical of us because we
Speaker 2: talk all the time about how long term relationships are
Speaker 2: hard work. If your aspiration is to be with one
Speaker 2: person for a very large chunk of your life, and
Speaker 2: these two being conservative Christians, that's part of their life
Speaker 2: started in their teens and presumably supposed to end when
Speaker 2: one of them dies. Doing that is very hard, and
Speaker 2: anyone who tells you that it isn't is lying, But
Speaker 2: you have to pretend that it's easy. We only really
Speaker 2: want to see and celebrate marriages that are our romantic
Speaker 2: ideal of what all marriages are. Even though when I
Speaker 2: listened to it, I had all kinds of issues with them,
Speaker 2: but that was mostly to do with their solutions to it.
Speaker 2: I've found very confusing speak about that. So it's interesting
Speaker 2: context when you realize how long ago this happened, because
Speaker 2: I think all the people who going, well, he's just
Speaker 2: going to cheat again and he's lying and all that,
Speaker 2: they're not giving her any credit. It's like ten years, right,
Speaker 2: They've been through a lot. She says that they were
Speaker 2: in therapy twice a week for a long time, then
Speaker 2: every week, then every month. They've worked it out. But
Speaker 2: they'd admit, and I know a lot of this is
Speaker 2: tied up in their religion, that the solution was also
Speaker 2: to basically put him on a lead, like that's basically
Speaker 2: what they've done, and I know other couples have done this.
Speaker 2: So there are rules around who he's allowed to socialize with.
Speaker 2: He's not allowed to have any relationships with women. He
Speaker 2: can't be alone with women, he can't talk to women
Speaker 2: on his phone. He can't go out with men who
Speaker 2: she doesn't sanction or approve of, who aren't good Christian people.
Speaker 2: There are rules about where he's allowed to go, how
Speaker 2: long he's allowed to be out for. And I know
Speaker 2: that this is my straining against my libertarian I find
Speaker 2: that I'm like, that is a fake situation.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like if you teach a cat it doesn't live outside,
Speaker 2: it lives in a flat. It will play along with
Speaker 2: it to a point, but the cat wants to go
Speaker 2: out and catch a mouse.
Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: And I don't mean by that comparison that he wants
Speaker 2: to go out and cheat. But what I mean is
Speaker 2: by creating this safe world, it's not the real world.
Speaker 2: If she can't trust him, or he can't trust himself
Speaker 2: to be in the presence of a female who isn't
Speaker 2: his wife, for his mother, or his sister or his
Speaker 2: daughter without wanting to cheat, then he's still a cheat.
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: I do?
Speaker 1: I was listening to a podcast with Glennon Doyle and
Speaker 1: her wife Abbi wom Back, and they were talking about jealousy,
Speaker 1: and they'd both been cheated on a lot in their relationships.
Speaker 1: Particularly Glennon, I think, said that every person she'd ever
Speaker 1: been with, including her husband, had cheated on her, so
Speaker 1: she had a lot of trust issues. She said, in
Speaker 1: the beginning of their relationship, she was incredibly jealous. And
Speaker 1: you know, there was one time that they both recalled
Speaker 1: that Abby came out of the shower and Glennon was
Speaker 1: checking her phone, even though she had no reason to
Speaker 1: believe that Abby was cheating on her. And Abby's version
Speaker 1: of events was really interesting because the way she reacted
Speaker 1: was not what are you doing? Don't you trust me?
Speaker 1: She said, She actually said to her straight away, Oh honey,
Speaker 1: what else do you need?
Speaker 3: Do you want my email password?
Speaker 1: What else do you need?
Speaker 5: I understand that for some people that's an invasion of privacy.
Speaker 5: I totally get it. But based on your wounds, based
Speaker 5: on me knowing your wounds, based on my wounds, that
Speaker 5: felt like such an easy thing to do.
Speaker 1: And I thought that is so interesting that idea of
Speaker 1: And again I don't know is Sam and NEI or
Speaker 1: what the situation is, whether all of those rules are
Speaker 1: because he needs to be kept on a tight lead,
Speaker 1: and he agrees that he needs to be kept on
Speaker 1: a tight lead because he does want to go out
Speaker 1: and catch a mouse, or whether that's just what she
Speaker 1: needs to be able to trust him again, because part
Speaker 1: of it was not just I mean, he didn't actually
Speaker 1: cheat via Ashley Madison because they were all bots, but
Speaker 1: he deceived her over a really long period of time,
Speaker 1: including messaging and propositioning her closest friend, different women, sex workers,
Speaker 1: and there were many times where she thought something was
Speaker 1: up and he reassured her that there wasn't. And so
Speaker 1: the way I read it was that she needs all
Speaker 1: of those things so that she can build her trust back.
Speaker 1: Is that different or not different?
Speaker 2: I couldn't live like that. I think that one the reasons.
Speaker 1: Which person you couldn't be either of those people.
Speaker 2: I couldn't be somebody's jailer, and I couldn't be jailed
Speaker 2: like I think. Hearing her talk about all that that
Speaker 2: was most heartbreaking to me because I'm not particularly black
Speaker 2: and white about cheating. I'm not talking about my relationship
Speaker 2: whatever here. I mean broadly my value system. Cheating with
Speaker 2: somebody else does not have to be a deal breaker.
Speaker 2: Betraying you is a different thing right, and that is
Speaker 2: lying to you, making you feel crazy, trying to chat
Speaker 2: up your friends. That is betrayed.
Speaker 1: That's different.
Speaker 2: And I think that's different if it's purely getting a
Speaker 2: sexual need met. You know, you can talk about that,
Speaker 2: but literally making a joke of what you think you have,
Speaker 2: that is a very difficult thing to forgive. So she's
Speaker 2: actually amazing that she's managed to do that. But if
Speaker 2: in managing to do that, you have to create this
Speaker 2: sort of I was thinking about it a lot because
Speaker 2: I was thinking I wouldn't say that, would I if
Speaker 2: someone was an alcoholic and then they had to You know,
Speaker 2: a lot of sober people have to live with very
Speaker 2: strict boundaries around where they can be, who they can
Speaker 2: socialize with, whether they can be in a venue that
Speaker 2: has alcohol, like, and I guess there's a comparison there
Speaker 2: for like, And I wouldn't pooh pooh that idea. But
Speaker 2: I just can't get around the idea that if the
Speaker 2: only thing that's keeping the dog on the porch just
Speaker 2: He'll remember Hillary Clinton famously said about Bill Clinton, He's
Speaker 2: a hard dog to keep on the porch. Ultimately, I
Speaker 2: think you've got to be true about who you are,
Speaker 2: and some people are more driven by sex, desire, flirtation,
Speaker 2: all of those dopamine hits that you get, which Sam says, yeah,
Speaker 2: he said, And I think in a way, if you
Speaker 2: know that about yourself, you're living a lie to pretend
Speaker 2: that's not who you are.
Speaker 1: When I need to view the psychopath a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks ago on No Filter in and I asked her
Speaker 1: because she doesn't have remorse or anything like that, and
Speaker 1: she doesn't know kind of moral feelings about cheating. So
Speaker 1: I said, well, then how come you don't cheat on
Speaker 1: your husband? And she was very pragmatic. She said, because
Speaker 1: I really like being married. Yeah, I like living in
Speaker 1: this house. I like not sharing custody of my kids.
Speaker 2: I respect.
Speaker 3: It's respect.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And why that's not a good enough reason for
Speaker 1: him to not cheat. Why does he have to not
Speaker 1: have the impulse.
Speaker 3: What really weirded me out about this interview is finding
Speaker 3: out that they were big family vloggers like in the past,
Speaker 3: because if you were on YouTube, which it was my
Speaker 3: generation on YouTube those days, it was such a competitive
Speaker 3: place to be if you were a family blogger, like,
Speaker 3: you're competing with all these massive families and surprisingly all
Speaker 3: of their audience were young children, Like it was like
Speaker 3: me being like seventeen sixteen, I was like an ideal,
Speaker 3: like that's the family that I want to create when
Speaker 3: I grow up, and that's what these families were doing.
Speaker 3: And then suddenly we all grew up, and then their
Speaker 3: YouTube channels just flunked, and then they were like kind
Speaker 3: of in the abyss.
Speaker 1: Didn't We also find out that a lot of them
Speaker 1: were like living.
Speaker 3: A lot a lot of them, Like there's been so
Speaker 3: many families like Ace family.
Speaker 1: Starving their children or like all those terrible things that
Speaker 1: we discovered were going on behind the scenes of these
Speaker 1: seemingly idyllic families.
Speaker 3: And I remember in the interview you did with them, Miya,
Speaker 3: she said that he always had like these big ideas.
Speaker 3: He was a big ideas man, and he knew things
Speaker 3: would go viral and stuff like that. And I think
Speaker 3: when you have those big, grandular ideas and you expect
Speaker 3: things to go viral, you don't stop. And just knowing
Speaker 3: that they did this documentary and this book and stuff
Speaker 3: and they're getting paid for all of this not.
Speaker 1: Much, though I genuinely don't think that's I think he's
Speaker 1: I do too, and he actually says in the book.
Speaker 1: When he was seventeen, he was in a band and
Speaker 1: his friends used to call him I'm paraphrasing, but like
Speaker 1: a fame haul, Like he just wanted attention and he
Speaker 1: wanted fame. I was watching him during the interview and
Speaker 1: the way he spoke about needing excitement outside and wanting
Speaker 1: to chase these big ideas, and he said something so interesting.
Speaker 4: He said, I think a lot of people want freedom.
Speaker 4: They're like, I'm not freedom for my marriage. Someone to
Speaker 4: go outside of my marriage and seek freedom. But what
Speaker 4: I found is I became enslaved rather than more free.
Speaker 4: And I've started to understand that freedom is actually just
Speaker 4: obeying the laws of the Lord and the laws of nature,
Speaker 4: obeying those staying within its confined. But I kind of
Speaker 4: look at as like being in the swimming pool, like
Speaker 4: if you don't obey the laws of the water, you'll drown.
Speaker 4: But if you do obey the rules and you swim
Speaker 4: and you respect, it's a resistance against you. It's very free.
Speaker 3: I feel like using the word chaos, especially the way
Speaker 3: he talked about his cheating. He would always refer it
Speaker 3: as a thing like it happened, it brought chaos, and
Speaker 3: it made me kind of as a listener, think he's
Speaker 3: trying to separate himself from the act he did.
Speaker 2: But this is again, I just have this real thing.
Speaker 2: Everybody's different, right, And there are some people for whom
Speaker 2: monogamy suits them, right, Security suits them, monogamy suits them.
Speaker 2: Respect is enough to keep them in the door. The
Speaker 2: idea of juggling lies and deceptions and the fact that
Speaker 2: at any minute you might be caught out would be
Speaker 2: your worst nightmare. You are anxious, you know, like that's
Speaker 2: your personality, male, female, whatever. And then there are people
Speaker 2: for whom that is their lifeblood and they love it. Well,
Speaker 2: then maybe they also have really high sex drives. You know,
Speaker 2: maybe they haven't, you know, they've been very repressed, as
Speaker 2: you know. I don't want to criticize their religion, but
Speaker 2: it's repression, right, Suggesting that any kind of sex outside
Speaker 2: of this very one, very specific union is sinful.
Speaker 1: I think that's what sets you up for failure because
Speaker 1: we see these section you know, the extreme forms of
Speaker 1: not just Christian religion, but all religions. To meet the
Speaker 1: tenets of that religion in its extreme form, you have
Speaker 1: to subvert so many basic human desires and instincts and
Speaker 1: deny them.
Speaker 2: And I think that if that's who you are, that's
Speaker 2: the kind of person who are. That's really what people
Speaker 2: mean when they say things like he's a hard dog
Speaker 2: to keep on the porch, which is such a tech,
Speaker 2: but that's what they mean. Like Hillary Clinton knew about
Speaker 2: the charismatic, extroverted, needy guy that she married, that he
Speaker 2: was always going to want other people's attention and other
Speaker 2: people's sexual attention. And then you make a deal with
Speaker 2: yourself about whether or not you can handle that right
Speaker 2: and within your marriage, and maybe you put some boundaries
Speaker 2: around it and you say no. And we know only
Speaker 2: out of town. I don't want to know about it,
Speaker 2: or I want to know everything about it, or whatever
Speaker 2: it is. But we like to pretend that all relationships
Speaker 2: are the same and that we're all the same, you know.
Speaker 2: So she's an idiot in the eyes of the world
Speaker 2: for forgiving him for that, or he's a terrible person
Speaker 2: for doing that, when it's just much more complicated than that.
Speaker 2: So my issue with it is about the kind of
Speaker 2: constraining and fighting and pushing back against your nature. I
Speaker 2: just think that that is I've never seen it work.
Speaker 1: I've never seen it where everybody have to do that
Speaker 1: to some degree. I mean, it's not like once you're
Speaker 1: in a commuted relationship, you stop living and breathing and
Speaker 1: you don't have eyes and you don't have ever chemistry
Speaker 1: with it anymore. But you choose right, you choose, you
Speaker 1: have to keep choosing yes monogamy.
Speaker 2: And I think that's harder for some people than others.
Speaker 2: I agree with that, And I think the thing about
Speaker 2: this is is when I say I've never seen it work,
Speaker 2: what I mean by that is that we've all known
Speaker 2: or been in relationships or something where one partner will
Speaker 2: be very jealous and insecure that never ever stops the
Speaker 2: other person from That never works as a strategy. You know,
Speaker 2: Like if I'm cheating and you're checking my phone every day,
Speaker 2: I'm still cheating. You're checking my phone. I'm just gonna
Speaker 2: find another way to do it.
Speaker 1: But are you feeling if I'm checking your phone every day?
Speaker 1: Does that give me some peace of mind that enables
Speaker 1: me to hate you less for the cheating that you
Speaker 1: did on me before and trust you more? Is that
Speaker 1: just the price you have to pay for winning back
Speaker 1: my trust?
Speaker 2: I totally get that like I know marriages that have
Speaker 2: been through a lot of things and then they come
Speaker 2: back together and say, these are our boundaries. Boundaries are good, right,
Speaker 2: But there's boundaries, and then there's literally trying to turn
Speaker 2: somebody into somebody else. And I maybe it'll work when
Speaker 2: he's fifty or sixty.
Speaker 1: You know. I got a really strong sense though, that
Speaker 1: it wasn't her imposing these things on him, it was
Speaker 1: him imposing them on himself. Like he's like, Okay, I
Speaker 1: know that this is potentially my weakness. I've strayed in
Speaker 1: a way that I'm not proud of and I don't
Speaker 1: want to repeat because I don't like the devastation that
Speaker 1: it caused to my wife. And in his mind also
Speaker 1: sinning against God. So what do I have to do
Speaker 1: to avoid temptations to get that stay off?
Speaker 2: But also, I mean, as much as everybody hates this guy,
Speaker 2: he hates himself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh he does. And that's why I don't hate him.
Speaker 1: Like he's like I think he's.
Speaker 3: Trying, Like he's trying, But how do you know he
Speaker 3: hates himself?
Speaker 2: Well, for me, that came across, and this is bound
Speaker 2: up in his strict moral code, is that he clearly
Speaker 2: thinks that what he did is the worst thing that
Speaker 2: he could have done, but he did it anyway, and
Speaker 2: he hates himself for it, and he's repenting and he's
Speaker 2: making up for it, and blah blah blah. And maybe
Speaker 2: they've lasted ten years with that, which is fine. No
Speaker 2: one's diagnosing whether their marriage is gonna last or not.
Speaker 2: But ultimately, again, I don't think anything good can come
Speaker 2: from a place of self hatred. One day, it's gonna
Speaker 2: bubble out of him, like one day. When I say that,
Speaker 2: I sound like I'm an expert, and I'm certainly not
Speaker 2: knowing what's gonna happen with these particular people. But in
Speaker 2: my experience, that's not a way to change and grow.
Speaker 2: Like hating yourself and beating yourself up is not a
Speaker 2: way to change and grow.
Speaker 3: I think he's giving himself a good edit.
Speaker 2: Do you see this is interesting how no one ever
Speaker 2: wants to give a No one ever wants to give
Speaker 2: someone who's admitted to cheating any inch. Aren't we just
Speaker 2: admitting something very human? Oh?
Speaker 3: I think it's just him as a person, Like I
Speaker 3: think I see that content light in his head, going,
Speaker 3: this is content. This is what I'm going to say
Speaker 3: to get more views, is what I'm going to say
Speaker 3: to get more listens. And they are still married, but
Speaker 3: they could probably not even be in a relationship anymore.
Speaker 2: Oh no, So basically you don't buy any of it
Speaker 2: because you don't buy any of it because they're.
Speaker 1: He cried interview. No, I can't cry, and command can.
Speaker 3: You cry cry?
Speaker 2: I think though, that what i'm's saying is behind a
Speaker 2: lot of the bad vibes that are coming towards them.
Speaker 2: Is I think that once you have opened your private life,
Speaker 2: relationship family up as content, which they are very clearly done.
Speaker 2: And you know, we've talked about this lots of time, Yeah,
Speaker 2: many of us, and to different degrees, lots of people
Speaker 2: do People always say to us, how much do you share?
Speaker 2: How much don't you share? But once you open that door,
Speaker 2: nobody trusts anything you're showing them anyway. Right, So the
Speaker 2: fact that they are making content out of the relationship
Speaker 2: even now, just like they were back then, but in
Speaker 2: a different way, probably makes everybody go bullshit.
Speaker 1: What was really interesting was when I asked them, has
Speaker 1: it been good for business? Have a listen. We'll put
Speaker 1: a link to that episode in the show notes if
Speaker 1: you haven't heard already. Otherwise, if you want to chat
Speaker 1: about it more, you can go into the outlout It's
Speaker 1: Facebook group or have a chat on our Instagram page.
Speaker 2: It's Recommendations Times Emily Burnham, why don't you go first,
Speaker 2: my friend?
Speaker 3: Okay, I am doing something a bit different because I'm
Speaker 3: recommending a concept because I don't want to go back
Speaker 3: to my desk. I want to keep so over the
Speaker 3: long weekend I went down a bit of a rabbit
Speaker 3: hole reading advice colins in the Times on that age
Speaker 3: where I only read advice.
Speaker 2: And the UK Times is behind payperwall, and they dropped
Speaker 2: it so you could read Dolly Elderton just so the
Speaker 2: m could read Dolly Alderton.
Speaker 1: For a day.
Speaker 3: Dolly Alderson, every broken hearted millennial's favorite author. There was
Speaker 3: just one submission that said, am I right to be
Speaker 3: annoyed with my coupled up friends? So this person said
Speaker 3: that they were single for quite some time, and to
Speaker 3: make herself feel better about her situation, she decided to
Speaker 3: do things that her friends and relationships couldn't do. So
Speaker 3: things are going on solo, dates are going to dinner,
Speaker 3: going to the cinema, going on holiday by herself.
Speaker 1: Why can't you do that? It's a couple.
Speaker 3: She said that she believes those things should be at
Speaker 3: the preserve of the single people.
Speaker 2: People are insufferable.
Speaker 1: She then we like you because you conjoined.
Speaker 2: Keep going.
Speaker 3: She then talked about how a friend in a relationship
Speaker 3: took herself out on a solo date and another friend
Speaker 3: went on a holiday even though she had a boyfriend,
Speaker 3: but she went by herself just because. And she said
Speaker 3: she was ashamed to say that. She was internally incensed.
Speaker 2: So she was mad because she was like, you're, yeah,
Speaker 2: I do things by myself. You do things in couples.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So if people in relationships can do the same
Speaker 3: things that people who are single can do, is there
Speaker 3: a point.
Speaker 1: In being feel like single appropriation?
Speaker 3: Yes, Alderton said, this is a consly way to put it.
Speaker 3: But I think what you're feeling is anger about the
Speaker 3: people with relationship privilege are appropriating your culture as a
Speaker 3: single person.
Speaker 1: Oh that's quite funny. That's so good. See Dolly Olden
Speaker 1: would have said that with tongue in cheek very much.
Speaker 1: I do all of those things because I am still
Speaker 1: an autonomous human. Are married, I go on holidays alone
Speaker 1: there's nothing that a single person could do that I
Speaker 1: can do. It's interesting. I was listening to a podcast
Speaker 1: with these two friends. I think they're both married, but
Speaker 1: these two women who went on holidays together and they're
Speaker 1: in their thirties, and they bumped into like a woman
Speaker 1: who was like in her seventies or something, and she
Speaker 1: was traveling solo, and they assumed she was like, maybe
Speaker 1: we don't adore single whatever, and she's like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: but my husband didn't come because he's saving up for
Speaker 1: his own trip. He's going to Cambodia. And they were like, oh,
Speaker 1: I think that's what you're probably talking. This person's probably.
Speaker 3: So when you guys do stuff by yourself, yeah, and
Speaker 3: you talk about it with your friends who own relationships,
Speaker 3: what are their reactions? Are they kind of like yourself
Speaker 3: so you don't get a reaction.
Speaker 2: So here's the thing. You know, what I know really
Speaker 2: annoys my single friends who are of an age like me.
Speaker 2: If I might mindlessly be like a lone time, I
Speaker 2: love it and they're feeling lonely and they're like, fuck you,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like it must be nice
Speaker 2: for you that that's a treat. It's not a treat
Speaker 2: for me, that kind of thing. I know what we
Speaker 2: mean here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, personally, I think from my experience what I hate
Speaker 3: is being a single person. My friends and relationships always
Speaker 3: expect me to be doing something fun that they can't
Speaker 3: necessarily do all the time. If I had a dollar
Speaker 3: for every person who told me to go to a
Speaker 3: freaking art gallery, I'd have shares. I have shares in
Speaker 3: the art museum.
Speaker 1: Am I mad? Like? Why can't you go to an
Speaker 1: art gallery by yourself if you're in a relationship.
Speaker 2: I think that single people think because when you are single,
Speaker 2: like for a long time, and you don't want to
Speaker 2: because there's different camps. Right, do you I want to
Speaker 2: be single? Don't you want to be single? I don't
Speaker 2: mean you right now? Am I mean? You can talk
Speaker 2: about it on the mark, But like, if you're happily single,
Speaker 2: none of this would bother you. But if you are
Speaker 2: coveting a relationship.
Speaker 3: And you're having to what she was saying, she was
Speaker 3: like trying to make herself feel better about being single
Speaker 3: by doing all these solos.
Speaker 2: So you're telling yourself the good thing about me being
Speaker 2: single is that I get to go and eat in
Speaker 2: that restaurants. I don't have to compromise with that annoying
Speaker 2: snory person on my couch.
Speaker 3: And then your friend with the boyfriend's like, oh, I'm
Speaker 3: going to do that too, and you're like, no, yeah, no, no, no.
Speaker 2: Don't because you think that's your perks, right, you know
Speaker 2: that's your perks is you get to live your own
Speaker 2: life and do your own thing, and everyone else has
Speaker 2: to compromise and be miserable. And the truth is, there
Speaker 2: is a lot of compromise in relationships. There is. I
Speaker 2: sometimes I have to watch things I don't want me
Speaker 2: or doesn't do that. I have to watch things I
Speaker 2: don't want to watch. I have to eat things I
Speaker 2: don't want to eat. Sometimes I have to go hang
Speaker 2: out with people I don't want to hang out with.
Speaker 2: Like it is true if that makes feel any better.
Speaker 3: It does make them feel better.
Speaker 2: But I am also a grown up who can go.
Speaker 2: I'm going to go and do that on my own.
Speaker 2: I can't do that.
Speaker 1: That's so interesting.
Speaker 2: My reco is Colin from account So if you didn't
Speaker 2: watch Colin from Accounts season one, it was a big
Speaker 2: hit it last year, the year before, maybe the year
Speaker 2: before before. On Binge Australian comedy actually became very popular internationally.
Speaker 2: Created and starring Patrick Brammel Harriet Dyer, the premise is
Speaker 2: Unexpected couple I guess right. Two are very good looking people,
Speaker 2: very good looking people who meet each other in Sydney
Speaker 2: when one of them runs over the other one's dog
Speaker 2: and then the hilarity ensues. Anyway, I loved season one,
Speaker 2: but there were things about it that also kind of
Speaker 2: annoyed me. And we are four episodes into season two
Speaker 2: now it is perfection.
Speaker 1: I think it's good to I.
Speaker 2: Can't remember the last time I laughed out loud that much.
Speaker 2: I love that it's kind of a bit gritty and
Speaker 2: a bit wrong, Like it's not one of those shows
Speaker 2: where you think all the time, oh yeah, that was
Speaker 2: a sensible choice, or all the people have got everything
Speaker 2: sorted and every now and again it annoys me how
Speaker 2: they portray older women. Yep.
Speaker 1: Annoyed me about season one, but it's better in season.
Speaker 2: That's a bit of a talking about her mom, well
Speaker 2: her mum and also the ex girlfriend. So, without any spoilers,
Speaker 2: Gordon's ex girlfriend is portrayed as a kind of vet.
Speaker 1: The vet.
Speaker 2: The vet. The vet is portrayed as a kind of
Speaker 2: crazy desperate and that used to annoy me, and it
Speaker 2: still is a little bit of a sound of the
Speaker 2: oyster for me. But then I have to keep reminding
Speaker 2: myself that I don't have to like everything about a
Speaker 2: piece of art. I just think it's great. How likely
Speaker 2: do you think it is that I could naturally get
Speaker 2: a woman pregnant?
Speaker 3: Exclusive?
Speaker 5: What do you mean?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 3: Why light addressed? It's a skirt and top new?
Speaker 2: Or have you lost a bit of weight? Not that
Speaker 2: you need to like, you look great to meet anyways,
Speaker 2: Like you could balloon and I'll be fine, but you
Speaker 2: don't need to get out, miya.
Speaker 1: Your recommendation is some people think I'm the big boss
Speaker 1: here at Mumma, but no, I'm never happier than when
Speaker 1: I'm actually the cold face making shit. People would be
Speaker 1: surprised I move furniture around here here. I like doing things.
Speaker 3: I remember one time I passed you and you're like
Speaker 3: buying tables on your laptop.
Speaker 1: Not only did I buy the table, I assembled the
Speaker 1: table with an Alan key.
Speaker 2: That's very me.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 1: I love getting my hand study. So you may have
Speaker 1: heard of a new Blockbuster podcast called mid that launched recently.
Speaker 3: It has a great host, it's got a very.
Speaker 1: Sexy host, and it's been a big hit and Holy
Speaker 1: and I've been wanting to do this for a really,
Speaker 1: really long time and she's gone ahead and done it,
Speaker 1: which has been glorious. But I've wanted to build some
Speaker 1: supporting stuff around it, like she's an Instagram account, a newsletter,
Speaker 1: because I feel like as a woman in this demographic
Speaker 1: as Holly is as well gen X women or women
Speaker 1: over forty. Really, with all due respect to your people,
Speaker 1: am sometimes it's tiring being around your people got it
Speaker 1: and they're.
Speaker 3: Ways thank God. I'm just a fill in host and.
Speaker 1: Sometimes, oh Jesse, it's just okay. Sometimes we just like
Speaker 1: to be amongst our own kind. And so I have
Speaker 1: been myself populating our our mid Instagram account and writing
Speaker 1: the mid newsletter. I'm doing it in the back heade
Speaker 1: the social lead. I go, I'm the contact.
Speaker 2: Time I pick up my phone, med by Mom and
Speaker 2: mea which is the Instagram account, has another hilarious meme,
Speaker 2: another video, and I'm like, what is she doing?
Speaker 3: I used to be in the social team.
Speaker 1: You're killing it, except I'm not. Because I got a
Speaker 1: message from Instagram the other day saying one of my
Speaker 1: posts was taking down because it had breach copyright laws,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, whoops, best time, best I.
Speaker 3: The rules, not breaking law anyone.
Speaker 1: So you know, we're learning. We're learning. It's trial and error.
Speaker 1: But there's some things about being this age where I'm
Speaker 1: actually really disinterested in other people of other ages, and
Speaker 1: I just want to have somewhere. I mean sometimes I
Speaker 1: am like, don't get me wrong, I like learning about
Speaker 1: socks and changing up my socks, but I also want
Speaker 1: to be a place where everyone is confused about socks,
Speaker 1: and that's what it is. So we will put a
Speaker 1: link to the newsletter. It's different to the out Loud newsletter.
Speaker 1: It is so good, of course, of course the mid
Speaker 1: podcast is so good, and the Instagram account will link
Speaker 1: to them all in the show notes.
Speaker 2: Every Tuesday and Thursday we drop new segments of Mom
Speaker 2: and Me Are out Loud just for Mom and Mia subscribers.
Speaker 2: Follow the link in the show notes to get your
Speaker 2: daily dose of out Loud and a big thank you
Speaker 2: to all our current subscribers. It's best and worst time.
Speaker 2: Who's going to go first?
Speaker 3: Where are we up to?
Speaker 2: Emily Vernon, I can go first. Okay, and remember everybody
Speaker 2: the thing about best and worst. This is the bit
Speaker 2: where we talk about our personal lives. So though we
Speaker 2: may have done that a bit already today a little bit,
Speaker 2: it's very much from the little, to the silly, to
Speaker 2: the ridiculous to the offensive.
Speaker 3: Go so my worst, we start with worse? Right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: my worst rule. I know I'm looking at your mind.
Speaker 3: I'm very strict. I have realized that I may potentially
Speaker 3: kind of be the side friend in my friendship group.
Speaker 1: In this podcast, yes, in.
Speaker 3: This podcast and in all my this podcast is not
Speaker 3: making me feel better about my worst? Can I just
Speaker 3: say I want to rebrand myself as the accidental side
Speaker 3: friend via convenience because I realized that a lot of
Speaker 3: my friends catch up without me.
Speaker 2: I discovered this.
Speaker 1: Did we talk about the side friend on this ship?
Speaker 3: Talked about it's that friend who's like kind of the
Speaker 3: third who's like, I'm kind of like forgotten on the side, and.
Speaker 1: That has to keep going.
Speaker 3: Hey guys, yeah, guy. And I've noticed recently that I
Speaker 3: was looking through a lot of my different friendship groups
Speaker 3: because I have a lot of friends chats and for
Speaker 3: like the last night four or five messages. I've been
Speaker 3: the one asking and initiating and catch up.
Speaker 1: Do you think they all have side chats without you left?
Speaker 3: And then I put it together, like a lot of
Speaker 3: my friends either live really close together or live together,
Speaker 3: or they either work together, or they have like a
Speaker 3: mutual friend like their partners might be friends as well.
Speaker 3: And I'm always the one who's the odd one out
Speaker 3: in that dynamic. I'm the third and I'm like, anyway.
Speaker 2: I think you're going through a life phase at the
Speaker 2: minute where you're noticing a lot of return. Last week
Speaker 2: it was about like no one bought me a birthday cake,
Speaker 2: my parents don't call me enough or something, And today
Speaker 2: it's about the side friends. You feel a bit sidelined, dull,
Speaker 2: feeling a bit she's caught a life crisis. Yes, I
Speaker 2: think it is. It's the Satain return.
Speaker 3: I think it's my certain return.
Speaker 2: I look at your social life. Obviously, get a frecial media.
Speaker 3: I'm not getting a friend like and has the best
Speaker 3: social life for.
Speaker 2: Always eating my highlight reel.
Speaker 3: My best was Vivid. Oh you went I went to Vivid? Well, okay,
Speaker 3: so Vivid's kind of like if you're not don't live
Speaker 3: in Sydney. It's like this big festival in Sydney that
Speaker 3: happens over two weeks. It's a big light festival. A
Speaker 3: lot of artists come here and show off the exhibitions,
Speaker 3: a lot of people travel here to watch it. Bigger
Speaker 3: and bigger every year. It's so big this year. And
Speaker 3: because I live in the city, it's literally at my doorstep.
Speaker 3: Like I walk out of my apartment block and I
Speaker 3: am vivid.
Speaker 2: You start blowing you.
Speaker 3: An exhibition? Or is she really I am exhibition? People like,
Speaker 3: look at that one.
Speaker 1: It's just me. That's great life.
Speaker 3: So there's like this big like fire kitchen right outside
Speaker 3: my building. I don't really know, but the kitchen and
Speaker 3: then's fire. So they're like guys and kitchens cooking. They've
Speaker 3: got like chefs from like American around the world to
Speaker 3: come here and they're like making all these different meat
Speaker 3: things and then these fire things go up and there's
Speaker 3: all these exhibitions. I'm like, we're so lucky to live
Speaker 3: in this beautiful city.
Speaker 1: I don't think.
Speaker 2: You definitely are.
Speaker 3: We should go tonight.
Speaker 1: Okay. The reason I didn't know what was on is
Speaker 1: because my worst I blame you. I've been in bed
Speaker 1: for the last five days with the flu.
Speaker 3: Oh, that don't blame me, because you were sick last week.
Speaker 1: And you were since we last recorded. I know. I
Speaker 1: struggled a little bit through that show, and then I
Speaker 1: went home after I went to the gynd of coologist
Speaker 1: to check out my flush period and.
Speaker 3: You got your Guyino sick.
Speaker 1: I hope I didn't get my guy and I sick actually,
Speaker 1: but I was like, I really need to go home,
Speaker 1: and then I'm like, no, I really have to get
Speaker 1: in the stirrups. Just feel even better about myself. So
Speaker 1: she had a little look at my cervix. She said,
Speaker 1: if in case anyone who's interested, not but anyone asked
Speaker 1: I didn't have a polyp because I thought maybe I've
Speaker 1: got a polyp.
Speaker 3: You don't have a polyp, but you do have the fluid.
Speaker 1: To get out how loudest I want to know. They
Speaker 1: want a service update. So she was like, look, I
Speaker 1: can't see anything up there apart from you know, your cervix.
Speaker 1: I'm like, but I've got no ovaries anymore because I
Speaker 1: had them removed, which is another story, And like, how
Speaker 1: what's bleeding? And she said, oh, it's because you're an
Speaker 1: hr T you can sometimes still get that. So she said,
Speaker 1: if it's annoying, you can get a Marina, and I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: it's not annoying. I mean, I did bleed through my
Speaker 1: traxit pants. But anyway, this wasn't my worst.
Speaker 3: This was.
Speaker 1: Absolutely that's funny, said, but proper flu. Right, So then
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, and then everyone's got pneumonia.
Speaker 2: So I thought I'll go to a joctor.
Speaker 3: Don't look at me saying proper flu. I had the
Speaker 3: problem because you.
Speaker 1: Was like the flu, and I'm always very I don't
Speaker 1: I would need proof of your flu. Don't just say
Speaker 1: I've got flu, because I don't like people upgrading.
Speaker 3: I don't like it.
Speaker 1: It's an unauthorised upgrade of your illness. So I went
Speaker 1: because I was worried I've got asthma. I was worried,
Speaker 1: and this is a.
Speaker 3: Very two time.
Speaker 1: I might have bronchitis or pneumonia because I helped anxiety Jesus.
Speaker 2: So I got swamped with the doctor.
Speaker 1: Believe me on my she said, and the results came back.
Speaker 1: I had nothing, but I did have influence a I'm
Speaker 1: an influencerkay, and so that's my.
Speaker 2: Most You went to bed.
Speaker 1: What's your best did the best was having the flu.
Speaker 3: I've come this is bullshit.
Speaker 1: Stopped you because I have to say I didn't feel
Speaker 1: that bad. I didn't feel great, but I canceled two
Speaker 1: days worth of interviews. I had a couple of no
Speaker 1: filters that I had to cancel, which was a shame.
Speaker 1: But then I was just in bed. My husband's away.
Speaker 1: My children are grown up enough to sort the shit out.
Speaker 3: I feel like you're impeding on my single person culture.
Speaker 1: So you know, I was in my bed. I had
Speaker 1: five devices scattered around me, a Kindle, two phones, a laptop,
Speaker 1: an iPad. I don't know why I needed them, all,
Speaker 1: box of tissues, some fidget toys. I wasn't hungry, so
Speaker 1: food wasn't a problem, and I just hung out.
Speaker 2: I said, you like it.
Speaker 3: I go crazy.
Speaker 1: I think I told you, well, when you're sick enough,
Speaker 1: you don't. It's when you start to get bored. Is
Speaker 1: when you know you're getting better. And it was a
Speaker 1: long weekend and I just I didn't have to talk.
Speaker 1: I really needed the recharge. So I didn't feel good,
Speaker 1: but I liked the lifestyle. Had a ford agree.
Speaker 3: I respect your decision to talk to your bed. I
Speaker 3: took to my bed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and to do that all right, I'm going to
Speaker 2: keep mine short because they are both cervix related, and
Speaker 2: I think everyone said quite enough about us one day
Speaker 2: after giving me a shit last week for her talking
Speaker 2: about her flash period, and I think I sat here
Speaker 2: and said, I haven't had a period for years. I
Speaker 2: would freak out if that happened to me. I caught
Speaker 2: her flash period.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: I messaged her and I said, fuck you, I'm bleeding
Speaker 2: like the flatmates are open.
Speaker 3: We're like flatmates or have your umbrella?
Speaker 1: Who knew we could still sink each other? That means
Speaker 1: I'm the dominant one.
Speaker 3: Alphabata the top dogs. So how did you go? Did
Speaker 3: you bleed it?
Speaker 2: It hasn't been as scary and heavy as yours, but
Speaker 2: it's like, I'm not even joking out louders. I know
Speaker 2: you don't need to know this, but I have not
Speaker 2: had a period for years because I had Marina. Then
Speaker 2: I had my Marina taken out, but nothing happened like
Speaker 2: I'm on estrogen. Although I have been stretching my patches
Speaker 2: out because they're so hard to find. That could be one.
Speaker 2: And then last week I started getting really sore boobs,
Speaker 2: and I actually said to Brent, I got really sore boobs.
Speaker 2: I do not have to be pregnant, she said, I said,
Speaker 2: I copy the world's oldest pregnant. Personally looked at me
Speaker 2: in horror and abject terror, and I was like, I'm
Speaker 2: sure I'm not anyway, And I got my period really weird?
Speaker 3: Was it kind of nostalgic?
Speaker 2: And now I'd forgotten how annoying it is. But my
Speaker 2: best is that and also service related, but more of
Speaker 2: a p s A. Really friends. I went to have
Speaker 2: what we used to call a phaps mere the other week,
Speaker 2: and now it's just called a cervical screen and you
Speaker 2: can do it yourself now.
Speaker 1: I might have been a branding cervical screen versus peraps
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 2: Isn't it cervical screening? You can do it yourself now.
Speaker 2: And I've read about this. I'd heard about this. And
Speaker 2: the thing is is the way it works to go
Speaker 2: to the doctor and you can choose to either do
Speaker 2: it the old fat world. With my GP, I could
Speaker 2: choose to either jump on the table do it the
Speaker 2: old fashioned way, or they give you it's like and
Speaker 2: you can choose take it home or do it at
Speaker 2: the doctor, so I could do in front of the doctor. No,
Speaker 2: why would AM?
Speaker 1: Sure you're doing it?
Speaker 2: It's got instructions on the back. And I think we're
Speaker 2: all very prepped for this now because we've been testing
Speaker 2: ourselves for COVID for a long time. Although it's a
Speaker 2: different hole. Obviously, I went in the bathroom at the doctor.
Speaker 2: You just do it and then you screw it back
Speaker 2: in its little tube, put the lid back on, popping
Speaker 2: in a plastic bag, leave it with the lucky receptionist.
Speaker 3: At the front desk.
Speaker 2: And the thing is is, I'm not really that squeamish
Speaker 2: about those things. And obviously I've been getting perhaps me
Speaker 2: is for a very very long time. But I thought
Speaker 2: about all the women I know who do really struggle
Speaker 2: to perhaps meters, whether they've got uginismus where they've just
Speaker 2: got anxiety around it, whether they just freak out about
Speaker 2: the mettal thing they wind in there and everything, which
Speaker 2: is all fine, But the thing is is really important
Speaker 2: to get them. We all know that, right, you got
Speaker 2: to get your health checks, even when you're older, even
Speaker 2: if you don't up period, it doesn't matter, Go get them,
Speaker 2: Go get them.
Speaker 3: And so I just.
Speaker 2: Thought, this is amazing. My daughter, for example, will probably
Speaker 2: never really have to jump up and get the speculum.
Speaker 1: And you know what, I think the worst part about
Speaker 1: it is, which is why I'm excited about this, is
Speaker 1: the small talk, because I had to do that with
Speaker 1: my guy, not last week when I went. When you're
Speaker 1: lying there, you got your knickers off.
Speaker 2: I'm worrying about your nickers, you know when you walk
Speaker 2: it and you're like.
Speaker 1: And you hyde your nickers, which is so funny given
Speaker 1: what they're about to see.
Speaker 2: Wait, you hide you put them money nickers.
Speaker 1: You don't hide your nickers.
Speaker 3: Come on, just throw them on the floor.
Speaker 1: I always hide my knickers.
Speaker 2: You fortuld your nickers and into the clothes on the chair.
Speaker 1: I don't know why.
Speaker 2: Given your doctor, someone sits on your clothes wherever.
Speaker 1: But you hide them. I don't know why.
Speaker 2: I don't know why.
Speaker 1: Anyway, and then you's just lying there and then you
Speaker 1: have to go. So how are the kids exact? Cat
Speaker 1: like being busy the weather? I find that excruciating. So
Speaker 1: I'm quite excited about sticking it up myself.
Speaker 2: So my best was that experience and thinking how the
Speaker 2: world has changed and some things have got better, not worse.
Speaker 2: It's goodness anyway. I think we've talked about cervix is
Speaker 2: for way too long. I don't know it's time to
Speaker 2: close out this week. I think my friend Mia tell
Speaker 2: everyone about the episode for subscribers that they could get
Speaker 2: so and.
Speaker 1: Out Louder reached out to me via DM and it's
Speaker 1: something that we popped into the Outluts facebook grouping on
Speaker 1: the Instagram page about a dilemma she had with her
Speaker 1: twenty three year old daughter who went out and had
Speaker 1: a really terrible night out and she didn't know how
Speaker 1: to help her daughter deal with it. And we read
Speaker 1: all of your replies and we wanted to think about
Speaker 1: it and give our advice as well to this out
Speaker 1: Louder So I have a listener. We'll put a link
Speaker 1: in the show notes.
Speaker 2: That is it. That is it for the week. Friday
Speaker 2: Fun finished. Thank you Emily Verndam for filling in and
Speaker 2: coming and sitting here and being the side friend on
Speaker 2: us show.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, and thank you for also saying
Speaker 3: that you're kind of over people like me.
Speaker 1: Gen Z.
Speaker 3: Sometimes even I do follow the Instagram. I love the
Speaker 3: mid Instagram.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: Look, you're a very broad minded young person. And also
Speaker 2: a big thank you to our amazing team, to Emily
Speaker 2: and Gazillas, our producer, our assistant producer, Charlie Blackman, Leah
Speaker 2: Porges who does audio production, and our brand manager Kerry
Speaker 2: Scott Jackson. And to all of you out louders for
Speaker 2: listening to us for another week. We love you loads
Speaker 2: and we'll see you on Monday.
Speaker 3: Bye bye, see ya.
Speaker 1: Shout out to.
Speaker 2: Any Mum and Maya subscribers listening. If you love the
Speaker 2: show and want to support us as well.
Speaker 1: Subscribing to Mom and Mia is the very best way
Speaker 1: to do so. There is a link in the episode description.