1 00:00:10,327 --> 00:00:13,047 Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 2 00:00:13,727 --> 00:00:16,767 Speaker 2: Mama mar acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:16,807 --> 00:00:23,567 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to 4 00:00:23,647 --> 00:00:26,287 Speaker 2: Mama Mea Out Loud and to our Friday show where 5 00:00:26,327 --> 00:00:29,527 Speaker 2: we take a big break from the news cycle today friends, 6 00:00:29,567 --> 00:00:33,047 Speaker 2: It's Friday, the fourteenth of June, and I'm Hollywaynwright. And 7 00:00:33,127 --> 00:00:35,287 Speaker 2: if you missed Monday's app this week because it was 8 00:00:35,327 --> 00:00:38,887 Speaker 2: a public holiday, we released a subscriber episode for all 9 00:00:38,927 --> 00:00:42,127 Speaker 2: of our listeners about intuition. How do you know when 10 00:00:42,167 --> 00:00:43,047 Speaker 2: you can trust your gut? 11 00:00:43,287 --> 00:00:46,967 Speaker 1: I'm mea Friedman And on Wednesday this week we had 12 00:00:47,047 --> 00:00:48,007 Speaker 1: one of the great shows. 13 00:00:48,047 --> 00:00:48,887 Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it. 14 00:00:48,927 --> 00:00:51,847 Speaker 1: We talked about the return of the lad mag We 15 00:00:51,927 --> 00:00:54,207 Speaker 1: had to explain to m the difference between a. 16 00:00:54,127 --> 00:00:56,887 Speaker 3: Coffee time a bit of an e grageration, and. 17 00:00:56,807 --> 00:01:02,847 Speaker 1: We also unpacked gray rock theory, which sounds like not biology. 18 00:01:02,887 --> 00:01:05,727 Speaker 1: What's the one with minerals geology? Geology? No, No, it 19 00:01:05,767 --> 00:01:08,487 Speaker 1: wasn't that ology. It's actually I like to call it 20 00:01:08,527 --> 00:01:10,687 Speaker 1: the gray rock technic, which I have been adopting every 21 00:01:10,767 --> 00:01:13,927 Speaker 1: day since because it can really help you in conversations, 22 00:01:14,047 --> 00:01:17,047 Speaker 1: especially if you have to do with psychopaths, narcissus, or 23 00:01:17,047 --> 00:01:18,247 Speaker 1: people who are very shouty. 24 00:01:18,287 --> 00:01:20,447 Speaker 3: Why are looking at me when you're saying psychopaths. 25 00:01:19,967 --> 00:01:22,887 Speaker 1: Because I'm actually thinking all of those things to describe me. 26 00:01:23,927 --> 00:01:26,367 Speaker 1: So I'm projecting to listen to any of those episodes 27 00:01:26,367 --> 00:01:27,887 Speaker 1: about any of those things as a link in our 28 00:01:27,927 --> 00:01:29,167 Speaker 1: show notes. 29 00:01:28,927 --> 00:01:31,247 Speaker 3: And I'm m Vernon. I'm filling in for Jesse again. 30 00:01:31,607 --> 00:01:33,887 Speaker 3: I'm also on our daily entertainment podcast A. 31 00:01:33,887 --> 00:01:38,847 Speaker 2: Spill on today's show why are People So Furious with 32 00:01:39,007 --> 00:01:45,167 Speaker 2: One handsome, cheating Christian Husband? And our recommendations, which include 33 00:01:45,207 --> 00:01:48,687 Speaker 2: a now iconic Ossie comedy, A Single Woman's Fury and 34 00:01:48,727 --> 00:01:51,687 Speaker 2: me as New Obsession, and our best and worsts, which 35 00:01:51,727 --> 00:01:55,687 Speaker 2: include side Friends, contagious Bleeding and influencer A I mean 36 00:01:55,887 --> 00:01:58,687 Speaker 2: influenza A influence. 37 00:01:59,887 --> 00:02:02,847 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I'm the influencer A influencer. 38 00:02:03,087 --> 00:02:05,687 Speaker 2: But first, M Vernon and Katie missed it. 39 00:02:06,207 --> 00:02:08,967 Speaker 3: A groom is fighting with her sister because she doesn't 40 00:02:08,967 --> 00:02:13,807 Speaker 3: want to attend his wedding in the nude? What so 41 00:02:13,967 --> 00:02:17,047 Speaker 3: A Reddit uses post went viral after the sister of 42 00:02:17,087 --> 00:02:19,727 Speaker 3: the groom to be bad or in what I would 43 00:02:19,727 --> 00:02:22,167 Speaker 3: describe as an exposed family. 44 00:02:21,887 --> 00:02:24,567 Speaker 1: Matter, oh, I see what you did there? 45 00:02:24,567 --> 00:02:26,087 Speaker 3: Do you see that I was expressing a laugh and 46 00:02:26,127 --> 00:02:26,527 Speaker 3: I got a. 47 00:02:27,287 --> 00:02:28,967 Speaker 1: I hate I know you do. 48 00:02:30,847 --> 00:02:34,087 Speaker 3: So, she wrote, whatever consenting adults do in their private 49 00:02:34,127 --> 00:02:37,087 Speaker 3: lives is none of my concern, and that extends to 50 00:02:37,127 --> 00:02:41,047 Speaker 3: my brother and his fiancee being naturists. However, I do 51 00:02:41,087 --> 00:02:43,527 Speaker 3: take an issue with them being angry that I won't 52 00:02:43,567 --> 00:02:47,127 Speaker 3: attend their wedding. So she went on to say that 53 00:02:47,367 --> 00:02:50,567 Speaker 3: the wedding and reception is taking place at a naturist resort. 54 00:02:50,687 --> 00:02:53,807 Speaker 2: So nature ists are nudists, right, Yes, people who like 55 00:02:53,887 --> 00:02:56,327 Speaker 2: to be naked. Yes, And they met at a naked resort. 56 00:02:56,367 --> 00:02:58,647 Speaker 3: They met at a naked resort, so there's some significance 57 00:02:58,647 --> 00:03:01,527 Speaker 3: of having the wedding at the resort. His sister tried 58 00:03:01,647 --> 00:03:04,127 Speaker 3: so much. She was like, she asked them, can I 59 00:03:04,167 --> 00:03:06,367 Speaker 3: wear normal wedding clothes? And they were like, no, like 60 00:03:06,407 --> 00:03:08,087 Speaker 3: the rest of the resort, you have to be nudes. 61 00:03:08,167 --> 00:03:08,367 Speaker 1: Off. 62 00:03:08,607 --> 00:03:11,847 Speaker 3: She even said I will pray for another reception, which 63 00:03:11,967 --> 00:03:14,967 Speaker 3: just made them more angry. She said, I'm not comfortable 64 00:03:15,007 --> 00:03:17,247 Speaker 3: being nude in front of a large crowd of strangers. 65 00:03:17,287 --> 00:03:20,047 Speaker 3: I am definitely not comfortable walking up the aisle arm 66 00:03:20,087 --> 00:03:22,967 Speaker 3: in arm with the groomsmen I've never met, and we're 67 00:03:23,007 --> 00:03:26,607 Speaker 3: both nude or standing in front of everyone during the ceremony, 68 00:03:26,727 --> 00:03:31,007 Speaker 3: or being in all the photographs. I am not saying 69 00:03:31,007 --> 00:03:35,407 Speaker 3: they should in a nature's resort. I'm just uncomfortable with 70 00:03:35,487 --> 00:03:38,047 Speaker 3: attending the wedding if I'm required to be nude for it. 71 00:03:38,447 --> 00:03:41,127 Speaker 1: Look, I think that's fair enough. 72 00:03:41,367 --> 00:03:42,887 Speaker 3: She tried, She gave an option. 73 00:03:43,007 --> 00:03:46,647 Speaker 1: It's a destination wedding, but a dress code that. 74 00:03:46,687 --> 00:03:49,127 Speaker 3: Nobody destination that we don't want to go to. 75 00:03:49,327 --> 00:03:51,567 Speaker 1: I feel like this is a bridge too far. I 76 00:03:51,607 --> 00:03:55,447 Speaker 1: think that guests need to consent, and I guess not 77 00:03:55,567 --> 00:03:57,887 Speaker 1: consenting they should respect that. 78 00:03:58,367 --> 00:04:01,967 Speaker 2: Can you imagine being at a nerdest wedding? Can you imagine? 79 00:04:02,167 --> 00:04:04,127 Speaker 2: Because you know how one of the things about weddings 80 00:04:04,207 --> 00:04:10,007 Speaker 2: is it brings everybody together, old young, add to half 81 00:04:10,047 --> 00:04:12,447 Speaker 2: of them, and then we're all naked and we're all 82 00:04:12,487 --> 00:04:14,927 Speaker 2: looking at each other. And you know that the bride, 83 00:04:15,007 --> 00:04:17,527 Speaker 2: because she's the bride, is going to somehow be the 84 00:04:17,567 --> 00:04:19,287 Speaker 2: hottest nude person and she'll have a. 85 00:04:19,287 --> 00:04:21,487 Speaker 1: Veil as well on her pubes. 86 00:04:21,567 --> 00:04:23,927 Speaker 2: And she that's why she put the bouquet. 87 00:04:23,967 --> 00:04:26,327 Speaker 1: She'd put a pube veil. Oh No, she's got a 88 00:04:26,367 --> 00:04:29,887 Speaker 1: veil on her head in the bouquet, just tucked into 89 00:04:29,887 --> 00:04:30,527 Speaker 1: her pubes. 90 00:04:30,967 --> 00:04:37,287 Speaker 2: My friend's brother had a medieval themed wedding, like one. 91 00:04:37,127 --> 00:04:40,407 Speaker 3: Of those pointy hats with some veil of it and 92 00:04:40,407 --> 00:04:43,167 Speaker 3: then they duel, they duel half it's like mead and 93 00:04:43,247 --> 00:04:44,047 Speaker 3: pigs and stuff. 94 00:04:44,047 --> 00:04:46,167 Speaker 2: And she was just like, I was like, I wouldn't 95 00:04:46,167 --> 00:04:49,807 Speaker 2: be going to fine though this. No, No, No, actually. 96 00:04:49,527 --> 00:04:51,607 Speaker 1: Know someone I just remembered I know someone who had 97 00:04:51,607 --> 00:04:54,287 Speaker 1: a nude wedding. No, I didn't go, obviously, it was 98 00:04:54,287 --> 00:04:57,487 Speaker 1: before I knew him, and it was a really really 99 00:04:57,487 --> 00:04:59,127 Speaker 1: long time ago, and it was kind of when he 100 00:04:59,207 --> 00:05:01,407 Speaker 1: was going through a bit of a hippie phase. But 101 00:05:01,527 --> 00:05:03,967 Speaker 1: I don't know if everybody had to be nude. I 102 00:05:03,967 --> 00:05:05,767 Speaker 1: think the celebrant was nude. I don't know if the 103 00:05:05,847 --> 00:05:09,007 Speaker 1: guests had to be nude, though, but he and his 104 00:05:09,327 --> 00:05:12,687 Speaker 1: wife were nude, and I think the celebrant was nude. 105 00:05:12,687 --> 00:05:14,887 Speaker 1: And were they also in a pool or Am I 106 00:05:14,887 --> 00:05:16,527 Speaker 1: getting that confused with home births? 107 00:05:18,167 --> 00:05:20,927 Speaker 3: If you had to go to a nude wedding, would 108 00:05:20,927 --> 00:05:21,367 Speaker 3: you shave? 109 00:05:25,127 --> 00:05:27,087 Speaker 2: There is no world in which I have to go 110 00:05:27,127 --> 00:05:29,367 Speaker 2: to a new wedding, But you know what I was 111 00:05:29,367 --> 00:05:31,167 Speaker 2: thinking about. One of the reasons why this story is 112 00:05:31,207 --> 00:05:34,407 Speaker 2: so good is that because for nudists, they don't see 113 00:05:34,447 --> 00:05:37,607 Speaker 2: being nude is anything sexual, anything strange. They're like, this 114 00:05:37,647 --> 00:05:40,047 Speaker 2: is very natural. But the whole point of a wedding 115 00:05:40,047 --> 00:05:42,487 Speaker 2: is there's all kinds of different people there. Even though 116 00:05:42,527 --> 00:05:46,287 Speaker 2: the nudists might be super chill, they would definitely be 117 00:05:46,447 --> 00:05:50,007 Speaker 2: like creepy Uncle Frank and like oh no, no, no, 118 00:05:50,007 --> 00:05:50,607 Speaker 2: no no. 119 00:05:50,407 --> 00:05:53,407 Speaker 4: No, signing up fresh and madisone and like literally saying 120 00:05:53,447 --> 00:05:55,207 Speaker 4: I want to have an affair. When I got to 121 00:05:55,247 --> 00:05:57,047 Speaker 4: that point, it's like, what the heck, how did I 122 00:05:57,087 --> 00:05:59,527 Speaker 4: get here? Like several years ago, I would have never 123 00:05:59,767 --> 00:06:01,687 Speaker 4: just blatantly chosen to have an affair. 124 00:06:02,047 --> 00:06:04,687 Speaker 1: One couple that definitely did not have a nude wedding 125 00:06:05,087 --> 00:06:08,927 Speaker 1: is Nia and Sam Raider. Now those names might not 126 00:06:08,967 --> 00:06:12,087 Speaker 1: be imediately familiar to you, but this week on No Filter, 127 00:06:12,647 --> 00:06:16,087 Speaker 1: I interviewed this couple who are a deeply religious Christian 128 00:06:16,127 --> 00:06:21,847 Speaker 1: couple who are also vloggers. So that's video blogger. I 129 00:06:21,927 --> 00:06:22,647 Speaker 1: sound like I'm. 130 00:06:22,487 --> 00:06:24,327 Speaker 3: Trying back the lady. They were bloggers. 131 00:06:24,567 --> 00:06:27,247 Speaker 1: It was like before influencers, there were people who would 132 00:06:27,247 --> 00:06:28,207 Speaker 1: just show you around their family. 133 00:06:28,247 --> 00:06:30,167 Speaker 3: It was big twenty eleven, twenty. 134 00:06:30,007 --> 00:06:33,167 Speaker 1: Fourteen, exactly when it was like, come inside our family. 135 00:06:33,607 --> 00:06:36,967 Speaker 1: And so Sam and Nia were these online influencers and 136 00:06:37,007 --> 00:06:40,447 Speaker 1: they had this quite successful YouTube channel and too long, 137 00:06:40,487 --> 00:06:43,887 Speaker 1: don't read. He cheated on her. He joined Ashley Madison, 138 00:06:43,967 --> 00:06:46,407 Speaker 1: the website for cheaters, and then when there was a 139 00:06:46,407 --> 00:06:48,527 Speaker 1: big data league, the world found out and it was 140 00:06:48,567 --> 00:06:51,687 Speaker 1: a big scandal. Now the way that they became famous 141 00:06:51,687 --> 00:06:54,087 Speaker 1: that some people might remember again, this was a real 142 00:06:54,327 --> 00:06:56,567 Speaker 1: twenty eleven thing. I remember it because I'm sure we 143 00:06:56,607 --> 00:06:59,287 Speaker 1: did a story about it on Mama Maya. When you're 144 00:06:59,327 --> 00:07:01,847 Speaker 1: a family vlogger, you have to kind of think of 145 00:07:01,887 --> 00:07:03,887 Speaker 1: different stunts that could get people to your channel. And 146 00:07:03,927 --> 00:07:05,687 Speaker 1: so she was pregnant with I think their second or 147 00:07:05,687 --> 00:07:08,007 Speaker 1: third child, and he had this idea, because he was 148 00:07:08,007 --> 00:07:11,007 Speaker 1: a nurse, that he would bring a pregnancy test time 149 00:07:11,007 --> 00:07:12,967 Speaker 1: from the hospital and he would test her urine in 150 00:07:12,967 --> 00:07:16,327 Speaker 1: the toilet. I remember, Yeah, he could break the pregnancy 151 00:07:16,367 --> 00:07:17,847 Speaker 1: news to her before she knew. 152 00:07:18,287 --> 00:07:21,807 Speaker 4: So here I am, and I'm so excited. I have 153 00:07:22,127 --> 00:07:24,247 Speaker 4: a specimen. I don't know if it'll throw it off 154 00:07:24,287 --> 00:07:27,927 Speaker 4: because it's all diluted. But I also brought almost pregnancy test, 155 00:07:28,287 --> 00:07:31,287 Speaker 4: and this time around, I'm going to be doing the announcement. 156 00:07:31,607 --> 00:07:33,247 Speaker 4: At least I hoped. I hoped so. 157 00:07:33,367 --> 00:07:35,727 Speaker 1: Bad she's pregnant, which, when you think about it, is 158 00:07:35,727 --> 00:07:37,567 Speaker 1: a great sort of story. It's a great piece of 159 00:07:37,567 --> 00:07:40,087 Speaker 1: content if you want to look at it objectively. And 160 00:07:40,127 --> 00:07:42,447 Speaker 1: it did. It went viral. They made this video, went viral. 161 00:07:42,487 --> 00:07:43,927 Speaker 1: They did all these interviews, so that's kind of how 162 00:07:43,927 --> 00:07:48,087 Speaker 1: they became quite famous. And then the Ashley Madison thing happened. 163 00:07:48,127 --> 00:07:49,887 Speaker 1: And the reason that they're in the news again is 164 00:07:49,927 --> 00:07:52,247 Speaker 1: because of this documentary that came out that we spoke 165 00:07:52,247 --> 00:07:54,847 Speaker 1: about on the show. There was sort of two couples 166 00:07:54,887 --> 00:07:58,247 Speaker 1: that were interviewed for that or one woman whose husband 167 00:07:58,367 --> 00:08:01,687 Speaker 1: took his life after his name was leaked, and then 168 00:08:01,767 --> 00:08:05,847 Speaker 1: Sam and Nia who got through it. They nearly split up, 169 00:08:05,887 --> 00:08:07,847 Speaker 1: but they didn't. They got through it. I think they've 170 00:08:07,927 --> 00:08:11,087 Speaker 1: since had another child. It's now ten years ago and 171 00:08:11,487 --> 00:08:13,807 Speaker 1: I reached out to them for a no filter interview. 172 00:08:13,847 --> 00:08:15,927 Speaker 1: They said yes, because they've written a book. They sat 173 00:08:15,967 --> 00:08:18,727 Speaker 1: down in their bedroom a couple of weeks ago to 174 00:08:18,807 --> 00:08:22,687 Speaker 1: do this interview with me. It was very intimate because 175 00:08:22,727 --> 00:08:24,967 Speaker 1: literally their bed was in the background and I'm talking 176 00:08:24,967 --> 00:08:27,447 Speaker 1: to these two strangers about their sex life and his 177 00:08:27,527 --> 00:08:30,087 Speaker 1: affairs and all the different ways in which he cheated. 178 00:08:31,087 --> 00:08:33,607 Speaker 1: The reaction to this has been really interesting in that 179 00:08:33,767 --> 00:08:36,767 Speaker 1: people are absolutely furious with him. Like the comments on 180 00:08:36,807 --> 00:08:39,847 Speaker 1: the social media post just around my no Filter interview, 181 00:08:40,607 --> 00:08:41,047 Speaker 1: Oh my. 182 00:08:41,007 --> 00:08:43,887 Speaker 2: God, they hate Nobody buys it, do they? So the 183 00:08:44,007 --> 00:08:47,327 Speaker 2: comments that I saw are a mixture of wants to cheat, 184 00:08:47,367 --> 00:08:52,807 Speaker 2: always a cheat, to he's a narcissist, douchebag, just absolutely 185 00:08:53,007 --> 00:08:57,247 Speaker 2: uniformly negative about him. One of the things I find 186 00:08:57,247 --> 00:09:00,487 Speaker 2: interesting about that is that this did happen ten years ago, right, 187 00:09:00,527 --> 00:09:02,847 Speaker 2: So what we're actually if you strip away all the 188 00:09:02,927 --> 00:09:06,127 Speaker 2: kind of Ashley Madison of it all, what we're actually 189 00:09:06,167 --> 00:09:08,167 Speaker 2: looking at is a couple telling us how they got. 190 00:09:08,047 --> 00:09:10,887 Speaker 1: Through infidelity for dalla, which is something that Esther Perell, 191 00:09:11,287 --> 00:09:13,927 Speaker 1: author of Mating in Captivity, talks about a lot. She says, 192 00:09:13,967 --> 00:09:16,207 Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be a deal breaker. In some relationships, 193 00:09:16,247 --> 00:09:19,087 Speaker 1: it is, but they're an example of a couple in 194 00:09:19,127 --> 00:09:22,167 Speaker 1: which it wasn't. But what I'm interested to understand, I 195 00:09:22,207 --> 00:09:24,607 Speaker 1: know you've both listened to the interview. Why is a 196 00:09:24,687 --> 00:09:27,247 Speaker 1: friend so angry at him because he's a guy who said, 197 00:09:27,287 --> 00:09:28,607 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I won't do it again. 198 00:09:29,087 --> 00:09:33,287 Speaker 3: Em For me personally, I find as someone who's been 199 00:09:33,367 --> 00:09:36,247 Speaker 3: single majority of her twenties, as well as someone who's 200 00:09:36,287 --> 00:09:39,807 Speaker 3: non exclusively dated multiple people at the same time, I 201 00:09:39,887 --> 00:09:43,607 Speaker 3: find the idea of cheating so fascinating because I can't 202 00:09:43,767 --> 00:09:46,527 Speaker 3: grasp what people get out of cheating that they don't 203 00:09:46,527 --> 00:09:47,807 Speaker 3: get from their relationship. 204 00:09:47,887 --> 00:09:50,207 Speaker 1: But did you listen to what Sam said? He basically 205 00:09:50,247 --> 00:09:52,167 Speaker 1: said they wanted to lose their virginity to each other. 206 00:09:52,207 --> 00:09:53,567 Speaker 1: She was fifteen when they met. I think he was 207 00:09:53,607 --> 00:09:56,767 Speaker 1: eighteen or nineteen. They fell hard and fast in love, 208 00:09:56,887 --> 00:09:59,207 Speaker 1: but they were very torn and they ended up having sex, 209 00:09:59,247 --> 00:10:01,127 Speaker 1: but then they felt terrible about it because they wanted 210 00:10:01,167 --> 00:10:03,327 Speaker 1: to save sex until marriage. So then they got married, 211 00:10:04,007 --> 00:10:07,447 Speaker 1: and on paper they hadn't slept with or done anything 212 00:10:07,447 --> 00:10:09,487 Speaker 1: with anyone. And he was basically saying. 213 00:10:09,327 --> 00:10:11,407 Speaker 4: You know, like in the documentary movies, I was so 214 00:10:11,487 --> 00:10:15,047 Speaker 4: fascinated by romance and that aspect of my marriage that 215 00:10:15,207 --> 00:10:18,527 Speaker 4: a novelty wore off and that was a bummer for me. 216 00:10:18,567 --> 00:10:21,847 Speaker 4: So I wanted to keep seeking that attention in that romance. 217 00:10:21,527 --> 00:10:25,327 Speaker 3: Even like we're dating. That's why so many men in 218 00:10:25,367 --> 00:10:29,287 Speaker 3: my experience, stay single because they get like these little 219 00:10:29,327 --> 00:10:33,007 Speaker 3: glimpses of attention that women who are single get constantly, 220 00:10:33,527 --> 00:10:35,167 Speaker 3: where it becomes like then a bit boring. 221 00:10:35,367 --> 00:10:36,607 Speaker 2: Single women get a lot of attention. 222 00:10:36,687 --> 00:10:38,567 Speaker 3: I think it's much easier for single women to have 223 00:10:38,647 --> 00:10:41,167 Speaker 3: like casual sex than it is for men to have casualty. 224 00:10:41,447 --> 00:10:43,487 Speaker 2: Why do you think that, Well, yes, it is because 225 00:10:43,527 --> 00:10:45,727 Speaker 2: you can choose to because there are men will do it. 226 00:10:45,847 --> 00:10:46,527 Speaker 3: Yeah, what you mean? 227 00:10:46,567 --> 00:10:46,887 Speaker 2: Okay? 228 00:10:46,927 --> 00:10:49,007 Speaker 3: And for me, it was just really interesting because I 229 00:10:49,047 --> 00:10:52,407 Speaker 3: think even if he was single before that, it would 230 00:10:52,407 --> 00:10:54,967 Speaker 3: have been hard for him to have like sexual relationships 231 00:10:55,047 --> 00:10:57,367 Speaker 3: before his wife. And then the minute he would have 232 00:10:57,407 --> 00:11:00,327 Speaker 3: gone attention from someone else who wasn't his wife, he's like, 233 00:11:00,367 --> 00:11:02,007 Speaker 3: I've never done this before, so let's try. 234 00:11:02,087 --> 00:11:03,687 Speaker 2: What did you think about him? Were you one of 235 00:11:03,727 --> 00:11:04,487 Speaker 2: the angry people? 236 00:11:04,807 --> 00:11:06,767 Speaker 3: I feel really bad saying this, but I was more 237 00:11:06,967 --> 00:11:10,687 Speaker 3: just upset with her being in that interview and watching 238 00:11:10,807 --> 00:11:13,487 Speaker 3: him talk about it. It almost felt like she was 239 00:11:13,607 --> 00:11:16,847 Speaker 3: endorsing a behavior that I have grown up learning that 240 00:11:16,887 --> 00:11:19,167 Speaker 3: you should never endorse from a man and never accept. 241 00:11:19,207 --> 00:11:22,727 Speaker 1: But why was she endorsing it? Because like she wasn't like, yeah, 242 00:11:22,767 --> 00:11:25,767 Speaker 1: it was fine and She wasn't like, yeah, he might 243 00:11:25,807 --> 00:11:28,407 Speaker 1: do it again, I'm just a door mat like. She 244 00:11:28,567 --> 00:11:30,607 Speaker 1: was very honest about the fact that they went to 245 00:11:30,687 --> 00:11:33,367 Speaker 1: the brink and that she really did think about divorce 246 00:11:33,647 --> 00:11:34,647 Speaker 1: in the beginning. 247 00:11:34,287 --> 00:11:36,367 Speaker 4: The early days. It was convinced like we were getting 248 00:11:36,407 --> 00:11:38,247 Speaker 4: a divorce. There was no other way around it. 249 00:11:38,447 --> 00:11:39,767 Speaker 1: Why people angry. 250 00:11:39,967 --> 00:11:42,367 Speaker 2: One of my theories about this is that cheating is 251 00:11:42,407 --> 00:11:44,487 Speaker 2: one of those things that we all accept happens, but 252 00:11:44,527 --> 00:11:46,647 Speaker 2: you're never supposed to admit that it happens, do you 253 00:11:46,727 --> 00:11:49,247 Speaker 2: know what I mean. It's like people are more comfortable 254 00:11:49,287 --> 00:11:52,367 Speaker 2: with the idea that in long term relationships people are 255 00:11:52,407 --> 00:11:54,647 Speaker 2: cheating if we don't talk about it. But if you 256 00:11:54,727 --> 00:11:57,127 Speaker 2: talk about it and you say I did, or I 257 00:11:57,167 --> 00:12:00,567 Speaker 2: wanted to, or you know, I've thought about it or 258 00:12:00,887 --> 00:12:02,687 Speaker 2: cheated or he did and we got through it, people 259 00:12:02,767 --> 00:12:07,967 Speaker 2: are outraged. And it's really hypocritical of us because we 260 00:12:08,007 --> 00:12:11,127 Speaker 2: talk all the time about how long term relationships are 261 00:12:11,167 --> 00:12:14,847 Speaker 2: hard work. If your aspiration is to be with one 262 00:12:14,927 --> 00:12:17,127 Speaker 2: person for a very large chunk of your life, and 263 00:12:17,167 --> 00:12:21,087 Speaker 2: these two being conservative Christians, that's part of their life 264 00:12:21,087 --> 00:12:23,887 Speaker 2: started in their teens and presumably supposed to end when 265 00:12:23,887 --> 00:12:27,327 Speaker 2: one of them dies. Doing that is very hard, and 266 00:12:27,367 --> 00:12:30,167 Speaker 2: anyone who tells you that it isn't is lying, But 267 00:12:30,207 --> 00:12:33,167 Speaker 2: you have to pretend that it's easy. We only really 268 00:12:33,207 --> 00:12:37,887 Speaker 2: want to see and celebrate marriages that are our romantic 269 00:12:37,967 --> 00:12:40,607 Speaker 2: ideal of what all marriages are. Even though when I 270 00:12:40,687 --> 00:12:43,447 Speaker 2: listened to it, I had all kinds of issues with them, 271 00:12:43,487 --> 00:12:47,367 Speaker 2: but that was mostly to do with their solutions to it. 272 00:12:47,527 --> 00:12:51,727 Speaker 2: I've found very confusing speak about that. So it's interesting 273 00:12:51,767 --> 00:12:53,967 Speaker 2: context when you realize how long ago this happened, because 274 00:12:54,007 --> 00:12:55,447 Speaker 2: I think all the people who going, well, he's just 275 00:12:55,447 --> 00:12:56,967 Speaker 2: going to cheat again and he's lying and all that, 276 00:12:57,007 --> 00:12:59,647 Speaker 2: they're not giving her any credit. It's like ten years, right, 277 00:12:59,727 --> 00:13:01,767 Speaker 2: They've been through a lot. She says that they were 278 00:13:01,767 --> 00:13:05,287 Speaker 2: in therapy twice a week for a long time, then 279 00:13:05,327 --> 00:13:08,167 Speaker 2: every week, then every month. They've worked it out. But 280 00:13:08,927 --> 00:13:10,567 Speaker 2: they'd admit, and I know a lot of this is 281 00:13:10,607 --> 00:13:13,407 Speaker 2: tied up in their religion, that the solution was also 282 00:13:13,447 --> 00:13:16,367 Speaker 2: to basically put him on a lead, like that's basically 283 00:13:16,367 --> 00:13:18,287 Speaker 2: what they've done, and I know other couples have done this. 284 00:13:18,367 --> 00:13:20,887 Speaker 2: So there are rules around who he's allowed to socialize with. 285 00:13:21,007 --> 00:13:23,287 Speaker 2: He's not allowed to have any relationships with women. He 286 00:13:23,327 --> 00:13:24,967 Speaker 2: can't be alone with women, he can't talk to women 287 00:13:24,967 --> 00:13:27,607 Speaker 2: on his phone. He can't go out with men who 288 00:13:27,607 --> 00:13:30,927 Speaker 2: she doesn't sanction or approve of, who aren't good Christian people. 289 00:13:31,327 --> 00:13:33,487 Speaker 2: There are rules about where he's allowed to go, how 290 00:13:33,527 --> 00:13:35,767 Speaker 2: long he's allowed to be out for. And I know 291 00:13:35,847 --> 00:13:40,967 Speaker 2: that this is my straining against my libertarian I find 292 00:13:41,087 --> 00:13:44,127 Speaker 2: that I'm like, that is a fake situation. 293 00:13:44,527 --> 00:13:44,767 Speaker 1: You know. 294 00:13:44,847 --> 00:13:47,887 Speaker 2: It's like if you teach a cat it doesn't live outside, 295 00:13:47,927 --> 00:13:50,447 Speaker 2: it lives in a flat. It will play along with 296 00:13:50,487 --> 00:13:52,487 Speaker 2: it to a point, but the cat wants to go 297 00:13:52,527 --> 00:13:53,407 Speaker 2: out and catch a mouse. 298 00:13:53,607 --> 00:13:54,247 Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean? 299 00:13:54,287 --> 00:13:56,967 Speaker 2: And I don't mean by that comparison that he wants 300 00:13:56,967 --> 00:13:58,327 Speaker 2: to go out and cheat. But what I mean is 301 00:13:58,727 --> 00:14:03,247 Speaker 2: by creating this safe world, it's not the real world. 302 00:14:03,607 --> 00:14:06,127 Speaker 2: If she can't trust him, or he can't trust himself 303 00:14:06,447 --> 00:14:08,847 Speaker 2: to be in the presence of a female who isn't 304 00:14:08,887 --> 00:14:10,447 Speaker 2: his wife, for his mother, or his sister or his 305 00:14:10,527 --> 00:14:13,847 Speaker 2: daughter without wanting to cheat, then he's still a cheat. 306 00:14:14,007 --> 00:14:14,727 Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? 307 00:14:14,847 --> 00:14:15,207 Speaker 3: I do? 308 00:14:15,327 --> 00:14:18,207 Speaker 1: I was listening to a podcast with Glennon Doyle and 309 00:14:18,247 --> 00:14:21,287 Speaker 1: her wife Abbi wom Back, and they were talking about jealousy, 310 00:14:22,007 --> 00:14:26,167 Speaker 1: and they'd both been cheated on a lot in their relationships. 311 00:14:26,167 --> 00:14:28,687 Speaker 1: Particularly Glennon, I think, said that every person she'd ever 312 00:14:28,767 --> 00:14:32,167 Speaker 1: been with, including her husband, had cheated on her, so 313 00:14:32,167 --> 00:14:34,767 Speaker 1: she had a lot of trust issues. She said, in 314 00:14:34,807 --> 00:14:38,887 Speaker 1: the beginning of their relationship, she was incredibly jealous. And 315 00:14:39,847 --> 00:14:42,207 Speaker 1: you know, there was one time that they both recalled 316 00:14:42,247 --> 00:14:44,207 Speaker 1: that Abby came out of the shower and Glennon was 317 00:14:44,287 --> 00:14:46,847 Speaker 1: checking her phone, even though she had no reason to 318 00:14:46,887 --> 00:14:50,527 Speaker 1: believe that Abby was cheating on her. And Abby's version 319 00:14:50,567 --> 00:14:53,687 Speaker 1: of events was really interesting because the way she reacted 320 00:14:53,807 --> 00:14:56,287 Speaker 1: was not what are you doing? Don't you trust me? 321 00:14:57,527 --> 00:15:00,527 Speaker 1: She said, She actually said to her straight away, Oh honey, 322 00:15:00,527 --> 00:15:01,327 Speaker 1: what else do you need? 323 00:15:01,367 --> 00:15:03,007 Speaker 3: Do you want my email password? 324 00:15:03,287 --> 00:15:04,207 Speaker 1: What else do you need? 325 00:15:04,687 --> 00:15:07,847 Speaker 5: I understand that for some people that's an invasion of privacy. 326 00:15:08,007 --> 00:15:11,927 Speaker 5: I totally get it. But based on your wounds, based 327 00:15:12,007 --> 00:15:16,047 Speaker 5: on me knowing your wounds, based on my wounds, that 328 00:15:16,087 --> 00:15:17,887 Speaker 5: felt like such an easy thing to do. 329 00:15:18,247 --> 00:15:22,007 Speaker 1: And I thought that is so interesting that idea of 330 00:15:22,647 --> 00:15:24,087 Speaker 1: And again I don't know is Sam and NEI or 331 00:15:24,127 --> 00:15:27,087 Speaker 1: what the situation is, whether all of those rules are 332 00:15:27,127 --> 00:15:29,047 Speaker 1: because he needs to be kept on a tight lead, 333 00:15:29,207 --> 00:15:30,927 Speaker 1: and he agrees that he needs to be kept on 334 00:15:30,927 --> 00:15:32,687 Speaker 1: a tight lead because he does want to go out 335 00:15:32,727 --> 00:15:36,047 Speaker 1: and catch a mouse, or whether that's just what she 336 00:15:36,287 --> 00:15:38,567 Speaker 1: needs to be able to trust him again, because part 337 00:15:38,567 --> 00:15:40,127 Speaker 1: of it was not just I mean, he didn't actually 338 00:15:40,207 --> 00:15:42,687 Speaker 1: cheat via Ashley Madison because they were all bots, but 339 00:15:43,407 --> 00:15:45,927 Speaker 1: he deceived her over a really long period of time, 340 00:15:46,047 --> 00:15:52,527 Speaker 1: including messaging and propositioning her closest friend, different women, sex workers, 341 00:15:53,247 --> 00:15:55,447 Speaker 1: and there were many times where she thought something was 342 00:15:55,527 --> 00:15:58,647 Speaker 1: up and he reassured her that there wasn't. And so 343 00:15:59,127 --> 00:16:02,247 Speaker 1: the way I read it was that she needs all 344 00:16:02,287 --> 00:16:05,527 Speaker 1: of those things so that she can build her trust back. 345 00:16:05,607 --> 00:16:07,127 Speaker 1: Is that different or not different? 346 00:16:07,447 --> 00:16:10,247 Speaker 2: I couldn't live like that. I think that one the reasons. 347 00:16:09,887 --> 00:16:12,287 Speaker 1: Which person you couldn't be either of those people. 348 00:16:12,447 --> 00:16:16,087 Speaker 2: I couldn't be somebody's jailer, and I couldn't be jailed 349 00:16:16,207 --> 00:16:18,487 Speaker 2: like I think. Hearing her talk about all that that 350 00:16:18,527 --> 00:16:21,927 Speaker 2: was most heartbreaking to me because I'm not particularly black 351 00:16:21,967 --> 00:16:24,247 Speaker 2: and white about cheating. I'm not talking about my relationship 352 00:16:24,327 --> 00:16:27,367 Speaker 2: whatever here. I mean broadly my value system. Cheating with 353 00:16:27,407 --> 00:16:29,247 Speaker 2: somebody else does not have to be a deal breaker. 354 00:16:29,607 --> 00:16:33,207 Speaker 2: Betraying you is a different thing right, and that is 355 00:16:33,447 --> 00:16:36,927 Speaker 2: lying to you, making you feel crazy, trying to chat 356 00:16:37,007 --> 00:16:39,447 Speaker 2: up your friends. That is betrayed. 357 00:16:39,527 --> 00:16:40,047 Speaker 1: That's different. 358 00:16:40,247 --> 00:16:42,447 Speaker 2: And I think that's different if it's purely getting a 359 00:16:42,487 --> 00:16:44,927 Speaker 2: sexual need met. You know, you can talk about that, 360 00:16:45,447 --> 00:16:49,087 Speaker 2: but literally making a joke of what you think you have, 361 00:16:49,567 --> 00:16:51,487 Speaker 2: that is a very difficult thing to forgive. So she's 362 00:16:51,567 --> 00:16:54,887 Speaker 2: actually amazing that she's managed to do that. But if 363 00:16:54,927 --> 00:16:57,287 Speaker 2: in managing to do that, you have to create this 364 00:16:57,407 --> 00:16:59,527 Speaker 2: sort of I was thinking about it a lot because 365 00:16:59,567 --> 00:17:01,127 Speaker 2: I was thinking I wouldn't say that, would I if 366 00:17:01,127 --> 00:17:04,167 Speaker 2: someone was an alcoholic and then they had to You know, 367 00:17:04,287 --> 00:17:05,967 Speaker 2: a lot of sober people have to live with very 368 00:17:05,967 --> 00:17:08,247 Speaker 2: strict boundaries around where they can be, who they can 369 00:17:08,287 --> 00:17:10,527 Speaker 2: socialize with, whether they can be in a venue that 370 00:17:10,567 --> 00:17:12,967 Speaker 2: has alcohol, like, and I guess there's a comparison there 371 00:17:13,087 --> 00:17:16,207 Speaker 2: for like, And I wouldn't pooh pooh that idea. But 372 00:17:16,287 --> 00:17:19,127 Speaker 2: I just can't get around the idea that if the 373 00:17:19,167 --> 00:17:21,327 Speaker 2: only thing that's keeping the dog on the porch just 374 00:17:21,367 --> 00:17:24,407 Speaker 2: He'll remember Hillary Clinton famously said about Bill Clinton, He's 375 00:17:24,407 --> 00:17:27,127 Speaker 2: a hard dog to keep on the porch. Ultimately, I 376 00:17:27,167 --> 00:17:28,847 Speaker 2: think you've got to be true about who you are, 377 00:17:29,127 --> 00:17:33,607 Speaker 2: and some people are more driven by sex, desire, flirtation, 378 00:17:34,367 --> 00:17:37,687 Speaker 2: all of those dopamine hits that you get, which Sam says, yeah, 379 00:17:37,687 --> 00:17:39,647 Speaker 2: he said, And I think in a way, if you 380 00:17:39,807 --> 00:17:43,607 Speaker 2: know that about yourself, you're living a lie to pretend 381 00:17:43,647 --> 00:17:44,447 Speaker 2: that's not who you are. 382 00:17:44,687 --> 00:17:46,367 Speaker 1: When I need to view the psychopath a couple of 383 00:17:46,447 --> 00:17:49,207 Speaker 1: weeks ago on No Filter in and I asked her 384 00:17:49,767 --> 00:17:51,807 Speaker 1: because she doesn't have remorse or anything like that, and 385 00:17:51,887 --> 00:17:54,887 Speaker 1: she doesn't know kind of moral feelings about cheating. So 386 00:17:54,927 --> 00:17:56,527 Speaker 1: I said, well, then how come you don't cheat on 387 00:17:56,967 --> 00:18:00,207 Speaker 1: your husband? And she was very pragmatic. She said, because 388 00:18:00,247 --> 00:18:02,687 Speaker 1: I really like being married. Yeah, I like living in 389 00:18:02,727 --> 00:18:05,687 Speaker 1: this house. I like not sharing custody of my kids. 390 00:18:05,807 --> 00:18:06,247 Speaker 2: I respect. 391 00:18:06,367 --> 00:18:06,927 Speaker 3: It's respect. 392 00:18:07,007 --> 00:18:11,807 Speaker 1: Yeah, And why that's not a good enough reason for 393 00:18:11,967 --> 00:18:15,287 Speaker 1: him to not cheat. Why does he have to not 394 00:18:15,447 --> 00:18:16,407 Speaker 1: have the impulse. 395 00:18:16,927 --> 00:18:19,647 Speaker 3: What really weirded me out about this interview is finding 396 00:18:19,647 --> 00:18:22,967 Speaker 3: out that they were big family vloggers like in the past, 397 00:18:23,047 --> 00:18:24,807 Speaker 3: because if you were on YouTube, which it was my 398 00:18:24,967 --> 00:18:28,487 Speaker 3: generation on YouTube those days, it was such a competitive 399 00:18:28,527 --> 00:18:30,407 Speaker 3: place to be if you were a family blogger, like, 400 00:18:30,447 --> 00:18:33,647 Speaker 3: you're competing with all these massive families and surprisingly all 401 00:18:33,647 --> 00:18:35,927 Speaker 3: of their audience were young children, Like it was like 402 00:18:36,007 --> 00:18:40,047 Speaker 3: me being like seventeen sixteen, I was like an ideal, 403 00:18:40,407 --> 00:18:42,527 Speaker 3: like that's the family that I want to create when 404 00:18:42,567 --> 00:18:44,807 Speaker 3: I grow up, and that's what these families were doing. 405 00:18:45,127 --> 00:18:47,007 Speaker 3: And then suddenly we all grew up, and then their 406 00:18:47,007 --> 00:18:49,207 Speaker 3: YouTube channels just flunked, and then they were like kind 407 00:18:49,207 --> 00:18:50,407 Speaker 3: of in the abyss. 408 00:18:50,087 --> 00:18:51,887 Speaker 1: Didn't We also find out that a lot of them 409 00:18:51,927 --> 00:18:53,207 Speaker 1: were like living. 410 00:18:52,967 --> 00:18:55,247 Speaker 3: A lot a lot of them, Like there's been so 411 00:18:55,287 --> 00:18:56,767 Speaker 3: many families like Ace family. 412 00:18:56,647 --> 00:18:59,167 Speaker 1: Starving their children or like all those terrible things that 413 00:18:59,167 --> 00:19:00,927 Speaker 1: we discovered were going on behind the scenes of these 414 00:19:00,927 --> 00:19:02,327 Speaker 1: seemingly idyllic families. 415 00:19:02,487 --> 00:19:04,927 Speaker 3: And I remember in the interview you did with them, Miya, 416 00:19:05,127 --> 00:19:09,127 Speaker 3: she said that he always had like these big ideas. 417 00:19:09,367 --> 00:19:11,167 Speaker 3: He was a big ideas man, and he knew things 418 00:19:11,207 --> 00:19:13,687 Speaker 3: would go viral and stuff like that. And I think 419 00:19:13,767 --> 00:19:16,047 Speaker 3: when you have those big, grandular ideas and you expect 420 00:19:16,047 --> 00:19:19,727 Speaker 3: things to go viral, you don't stop. And just knowing 421 00:19:19,767 --> 00:19:22,327 Speaker 3: that they did this documentary and this book and stuff 422 00:19:22,487 --> 00:19:24,687 Speaker 3: and they're getting paid for all of this not. 423 00:19:24,767 --> 00:19:28,207 Speaker 1: Much, though I genuinely don't think that's I think he's 424 00:19:30,087 --> 00:19:32,127 Speaker 1: I do too, and he actually says in the book. 425 00:19:32,687 --> 00:19:35,087 Speaker 1: When he was seventeen, he was in a band and 426 00:19:35,447 --> 00:19:38,407 Speaker 1: his friends used to call him I'm paraphrasing, but like 427 00:19:38,447 --> 00:19:40,487 Speaker 1: a fame haul, Like he just wanted attention and he 428 00:19:40,487 --> 00:19:43,327 Speaker 1: wanted fame. I was watching him during the interview and 429 00:19:43,367 --> 00:19:46,847 Speaker 1: the way he spoke about needing excitement outside and wanting 430 00:19:46,847 --> 00:19:50,647 Speaker 1: to chase these big ideas, and he said something so interesting. 431 00:19:50,727 --> 00:19:52,967 Speaker 4: He said, I think a lot of people want freedom. 432 00:19:53,047 --> 00:19:55,047 Speaker 4: They're like, I'm not freedom for my marriage. Someone to 433 00:19:55,087 --> 00:19:57,847 Speaker 4: go outside of my marriage and seek freedom. But what 434 00:19:57,967 --> 00:20:01,407 Speaker 4: I found is I became enslaved rather than more free. 435 00:20:01,887 --> 00:20:04,727 Speaker 4: And I've started to understand that freedom is actually just 436 00:20:04,807 --> 00:20:08,167 Speaker 4: obeying the laws of the Lord and the laws of nature, 437 00:20:08,367 --> 00:20:11,687 Speaker 4: obeying those staying within its confined. But I kind of 438 00:20:11,807 --> 00:20:13,487 Speaker 4: look at as like being in the swimming pool, like 439 00:20:13,487 --> 00:20:17,127 Speaker 4: if you don't obey the laws of the water, you'll drown. 440 00:20:17,567 --> 00:20:19,847 Speaker 4: But if you do obey the rules and you swim 441 00:20:20,327 --> 00:20:24,247 Speaker 4: and you respect, it's a resistance against you. It's very free. 442 00:20:24,607 --> 00:20:26,927 Speaker 3: I feel like using the word chaos, especially the way 443 00:20:26,967 --> 00:20:29,607 Speaker 3: he talked about his cheating. He would always refer it 444 00:20:29,647 --> 00:20:33,127 Speaker 3: as a thing like it happened, it brought chaos, and 445 00:20:33,167 --> 00:20:35,607 Speaker 3: it made me kind of as a listener, think he's 446 00:20:35,647 --> 00:20:37,887 Speaker 3: trying to separate himself from the act he did. 447 00:20:38,727 --> 00:20:41,167 Speaker 2: But this is again, I just have this real thing. 448 00:20:41,367 --> 00:20:43,727 Speaker 2: Everybody's different, right, And there are some people for whom 449 00:20:43,847 --> 00:20:48,927 Speaker 2: monogamy suits them, right, Security suits them, monogamy suits them. 450 00:20:49,207 --> 00:20:51,687 Speaker 2: Respect is enough to keep them in the door. The 451 00:20:51,727 --> 00:20:55,087 Speaker 2: idea of juggling lies and deceptions and the fact that 452 00:20:55,127 --> 00:20:56,807 Speaker 2: at any minute you might be caught out would be 453 00:20:56,887 --> 00:21:01,087 Speaker 2: your worst nightmare. You are anxious, you know, like that's 454 00:21:01,207 --> 00:21:03,807 Speaker 2: your personality, male, female, whatever. And then there are people 455 00:21:03,887 --> 00:21:06,407 Speaker 2: for whom that is their lifeblood and they love it. Well, 456 00:21:06,487 --> 00:21:09,127 Speaker 2: then maybe they also have really high sex drives. You know, 457 00:21:09,247 --> 00:21:11,647 Speaker 2: maybe they haven't, you know, they've been very repressed, as 458 00:21:11,687 --> 00:21:13,487 Speaker 2: you know. I don't want to criticize their religion, but 459 00:21:13,647 --> 00:21:17,447 Speaker 2: it's repression, right, Suggesting that any kind of sex outside 460 00:21:17,447 --> 00:21:20,887 Speaker 2: of this very one, very specific union is sinful. 461 00:21:21,047 --> 00:21:24,087 Speaker 1: I think that's what sets you up for failure because 462 00:21:24,087 --> 00:21:26,847 Speaker 1: we see these section you know, the extreme forms of 463 00:21:27,287 --> 00:21:30,727 Speaker 1: not just Christian religion, but all religions. To meet the 464 00:21:30,767 --> 00:21:33,527 Speaker 1: tenets of that religion in its extreme form, you have 465 00:21:33,607 --> 00:21:37,927 Speaker 1: to subvert so many basic human desires and instincts and 466 00:21:38,207 --> 00:21:38,847 Speaker 1: deny them. 467 00:21:39,047 --> 00:21:40,927 Speaker 2: And I think that if that's who you are, that's 468 00:21:40,967 --> 00:21:42,807 Speaker 2: the kind of person who are. That's really what people 469 00:21:42,847 --> 00:21:44,927 Speaker 2: mean when they say things like he's a hard dog 470 00:21:44,967 --> 00:21:46,727 Speaker 2: to keep on the porch, which is such a tech, 471 00:21:46,767 --> 00:21:49,567 Speaker 2: but that's what they mean. Like Hillary Clinton knew about 472 00:21:49,567 --> 00:21:55,247 Speaker 2: the charismatic, extroverted, needy guy that she married, that he 473 00:21:55,647 --> 00:21:58,847 Speaker 2: was always going to want other people's attention and other 474 00:21:58,927 --> 00:22:01,727 Speaker 2: people's sexual attention. And then you make a deal with 475 00:22:01,727 --> 00:22:03,607 Speaker 2: yourself about whether or not you can handle that right 476 00:22:03,647 --> 00:22:05,567 Speaker 2: and within your marriage, and maybe you put some boundaries 477 00:22:05,567 --> 00:22:07,887 Speaker 2: around it and you say no. And we know only 478 00:22:07,927 --> 00:22:10,047 Speaker 2: out of town. I don't want to know about it, 479 00:22:10,127 --> 00:22:11,887 Speaker 2: or I want to know everything about it, or whatever 480 00:22:11,927 --> 00:22:15,087 Speaker 2: it is. But we like to pretend that all relationships 481 00:22:15,087 --> 00:22:17,687 Speaker 2: are the same and that we're all the same, you know. 482 00:22:17,927 --> 00:22:20,327 Speaker 2: So she's an idiot in the eyes of the world 483 00:22:20,367 --> 00:22:23,007 Speaker 2: for forgiving him for that, or he's a terrible person 484 00:22:23,007 --> 00:22:26,127 Speaker 2: for doing that, when it's just much more complicated than that. 485 00:22:26,247 --> 00:22:28,207 Speaker 2: So my issue with it is about the kind of 486 00:22:28,687 --> 00:22:32,007 Speaker 2: constraining and fighting and pushing back against your nature. I 487 00:22:32,087 --> 00:22:34,847 Speaker 2: just think that that is I've never seen it work. 488 00:22:35,327 --> 00:22:37,247 Speaker 1: I've never seen it where everybody have to do that 489 00:22:37,567 --> 00:22:40,167 Speaker 1: to some degree. I mean, it's not like once you're 490 00:22:40,207 --> 00:22:44,567 Speaker 1: in a commuted relationship, you stop living and breathing and 491 00:22:44,607 --> 00:22:47,247 Speaker 1: you don't have eyes and you don't have ever chemistry 492 00:22:47,247 --> 00:22:49,607 Speaker 1: with it anymore. But you choose right, you choose, you 493 00:22:49,647 --> 00:22:52,607 Speaker 1: have to keep choosing yes monogamy. 494 00:22:52,527 --> 00:22:54,327 Speaker 2: And I think that's harder for some people than others. 495 00:22:54,487 --> 00:22:57,007 Speaker 2: I agree with that, And I think the thing about 496 00:22:57,087 --> 00:22:59,607 Speaker 2: this is is when I say I've never seen it work, 497 00:22:59,647 --> 00:23:01,487 Speaker 2: what I mean by that is that we've all known 498 00:23:01,607 --> 00:23:04,927 Speaker 2: or been in relationships or something where one partner will 499 00:23:04,967 --> 00:23:08,447 Speaker 2: be very jealous and insecure that never ever stops the 500 00:23:08,487 --> 00:23:12,127 Speaker 2: other person from That never works as a strategy. You know, 501 00:23:12,247 --> 00:23:15,087 Speaker 2: Like if I'm cheating and you're checking my phone every day, 502 00:23:15,127 --> 00:23:17,087 Speaker 2: I'm still cheating. You're checking my phone. I'm just gonna 503 00:23:17,087 --> 00:23:18,207 Speaker 2: find another way to do it. 504 00:23:18,207 --> 00:23:20,687 Speaker 1: But are you feeling if I'm checking your phone every day? 505 00:23:21,407 --> 00:23:23,967 Speaker 1: Does that give me some peace of mind that enables 506 00:23:24,007 --> 00:23:25,887 Speaker 1: me to hate you less for the cheating that you 507 00:23:25,927 --> 00:23:28,287 Speaker 1: did on me before and trust you more? Is that 508 00:23:28,447 --> 00:23:30,567 Speaker 1: just the price you have to pay for winning back 509 00:23:30,607 --> 00:23:31,087 Speaker 1: my trust? 510 00:23:31,247 --> 00:23:33,607 Speaker 2: I totally get that like I know marriages that have 511 00:23:33,647 --> 00:23:35,047 Speaker 2: been through a lot of things and then they come 512 00:23:35,047 --> 00:23:37,607 Speaker 2: back together and say, these are our boundaries. Boundaries are good, right, 513 00:23:37,967 --> 00:23:41,127 Speaker 2: But there's boundaries, and then there's literally trying to turn 514 00:23:41,207 --> 00:23:44,207 Speaker 2: somebody into somebody else. And I maybe it'll work when 515 00:23:44,207 --> 00:23:45,687 Speaker 2: he's fifty or sixty. 516 00:23:45,847 --> 00:23:47,967 Speaker 1: You know. I got a really strong sense though, that 517 00:23:48,047 --> 00:23:50,967 Speaker 1: it wasn't her imposing these things on him, it was 518 00:23:51,047 --> 00:23:54,447 Speaker 1: him imposing them on himself. Like he's like, Okay, I 519 00:23:54,527 --> 00:23:57,687 Speaker 1: know that this is potentially my weakness. I've strayed in 520 00:23:57,687 --> 00:23:59,127 Speaker 1: a way that I'm not proud of and I don't 521 00:23:59,167 --> 00:24:01,527 Speaker 1: want to repeat because I don't like the devastation that 522 00:24:01,567 --> 00:24:03,687 Speaker 1: it caused to my wife. And in his mind also 523 00:24:03,887 --> 00:24:07,127 Speaker 1: sinning against God. So what do I have to do 524 00:24:07,207 --> 00:24:09,607 Speaker 1: to avoid temptations to get that stay off? 525 00:24:09,687 --> 00:24:12,407 Speaker 2: But also, I mean, as much as everybody hates this guy, 526 00:24:13,047 --> 00:24:14,007 Speaker 2: he hates himself. 527 00:24:14,247 --> 00:24:16,087 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh he does. And that's why I don't hate him. 528 00:24:16,127 --> 00:24:17,727 Speaker 1: Like he's like I think he's. 529 00:24:17,567 --> 00:24:19,447 Speaker 3: Trying, Like he's trying, But how do you know he 530 00:24:19,487 --> 00:24:20,207 Speaker 3: hates himself? 531 00:24:20,367 --> 00:24:23,647 Speaker 2: Well, for me, that came across, and this is bound 532 00:24:23,727 --> 00:24:26,927 Speaker 2: up in his strict moral code, is that he clearly 533 00:24:26,927 --> 00:24:28,727 Speaker 2: thinks that what he did is the worst thing that 534 00:24:28,807 --> 00:24:30,607 Speaker 2: he could have done, but he did it anyway, and 535 00:24:30,607 --> 00:24:32,767 Speaker 2: he hates himself for it, and he's repenting and he's 536 00:24:32,767 --> 00:24:35,647 Speaker 2: making up for it, and blah blah blah. And maybe 537 00:24:35,647 --> 00:24:37,807 Speaker 2: they've lasted ten years with that, which is fine. No 538 00:24:37,847 --> 00:24:40,127 Speaker 2: one's diagnosing whether their marriage is gonna last or not. 539 00:24:40,927 --> 00:24:44,287 Speaker 2: But ultimately, again, I don't think anything good can come 540 00:24:44,287 --> 00:24:46,447 Speaker 2: from a place of self hatred. One day, it's gonna 541 00:24:46,447 --> 00:24:48,967 Speaker 2: bubble out of him, like one day. When I say that, 542 00:24:49,007 --> 00:24:51,767 Speaker 2: I sound like I'm an expert, and I'm certainly not 543 00:24:52,087 --> 00:24:54,127 Speaker 2: knowing what's gonna happen with these particular people. But in 544 00:24:54,127 --> 00:24:57,527 Speaker 2: my experience, that's not a way to change and grow. 545 00:24:57,967 --> 00:25:00,767 Speaker 2: Like hating yourself and beating yourself up is not a 546 00:25:00,807 --> 00:25:01,767 Speaker 2: way to change and grow. 547 00:25:01,927 --> 00:25:03,447 Speaker 3: I think he's giving himself a good edit. 548 00:25:03,727 --> 00:25:06,767 Speaker 2: Do you see this is interesting how no one ever 549 00:25:06,847 --> 00:25:09,767 Speaker 2: wants to give a No one ever wants to give 550 00:25:10,047 --> 00:25:13,687 Speaker 2: someone who's admitted to cheating any inch. Aren't we just 551 00:25:13,727 --> 00:25:15,607 Speaker 2: admitting something very human? Oh? 552 00:25:15,687 --> 00:25:17,487 Speaker 3: I think it's just him as a person, Like I 553 00:25:17,527 --> 00:25:21,087 Speaker 3: think I see that content light in his head, going, 554 00:25:21,127 --> 00:25:22,887 Speaker 3: this is content. This is what I'm going to say 555 00:25:22,927 --> 00:25:24,487 Speaker 3: to get more views, is what I'm going to say 556 00:25:24,487 --> 00:25:27,447 Speaker 3: to get more listens. And they are still married, but 557 00:25:27,487 --> 00:25:29,767 Speaker 3: they could probably not even be in a relationship anymore. 558 00:25:29,967 --> 00:25:32,247 Speaker 2: Oh no, So basically you don't buy any of it 559 00:25:32,287 --> 00:25:35,447 Speaker 2: because you don't buy any of it because they're. 560 00:25:35,407 --> 00:25:40,287 Speaker 1: He cried interview. No, I can't cry, and command can. 561 00:25:40,167 --> 00:25:41,047 Speaker 3: You cry cry? 562 00:25:41,327 --> 00:25:44,367 Speaker 2: I think though, that what i'm's saying is behind a 563 00:25:44,367 --> 00:25:46,527 Speaker 2: lot of the bad vibes that are coming towards them. 564 00:25:46,567 --> 00:25:50,607 Speaker 2: Is I think that once you have opened your private life, 565 00:25:50,607 --> 00:25:54,327 Speaker 2: relationship family up as content, which they are very clearly done. 566 00:25:54,687 --> 00:25:57,167 Speaker 2: And you know, we've talked about this lots of time, Yeah, 567 00:25:57,247 --> 00:25:59,367 Speaker 2: many of us, and to different degrees, lots of people 568 00:25:59,447 --> 00:26:01,487 Speaker 2: do People always say to us, how much do you share? 569 00:26:01,527 --> 00:26:04,047 Speaker 2: How much don't you share? But once you open that door, 570 00:26:04,247 --> 00:26:07,407 Speaker 2: nobody trusts anything you're showing them anyway. Right, So the 571 00:26:07,447 --> 00:26:10,607 Speaker 2: fact that they are making content out of the relationship 572 00:26:10,647 --> 00:26:12,367 Speaker 2: even now, just like they were back then, but in 573 00:26:12,407 --> 00:26:14,767 Speaker 2: a different way, probably makes everybody go bullshit. 574 00:26:15,007 --> 00:26:18,447 Speaker 1: What was really interesting was when I asked them, has 575 00:26:18,487 --> 00:26:21,087 Speaker 1: it been good for business? Have a listen. We'll put 576 00:26:21,087 --> 00:26:22,847 Speaker 1: a link to that episode in the show notes if 577 00:26:22,887 --> 00:26:24,927 Speaker 1: you haven't heard already. Otherwise, if you want to chat 578 00:26:24,927 --> 00:26:26,247 Speaker 1: about it more, you can go into the outlout It's 579 00:26:26,247 --> 00:26:29,007 Speaker 1: Facebook group or have a chat on our Instagram page. 580 00:26:34,967 --> 00:26:37,807 Speaker 2: It's Recommendations Times Emily Burnham, why don't you go first, 581 00:26:37,887 --> 00:26:38,327 Speaker 2: my friend? 582 00:26:38,447 --> 00:26:41,207 Speaker 3: Okay, I am doing something a bit different because I'm 583 00:26:41,247 --> 00:26:43,727 Speaker 3: recommending a concept because I don't want to go back 584 00:26:43,727 --> 00:26:48,007 Speaker 3: to my desk. I want to keep so over the 585 00:26:48,007 --> 00:26:50,087 Speaker 3: long weekend I went down a bit of a rabbit 586 00:26:50,087 --> 00:26:53,087 Speaker 3: hole reading advice colins in the Times on that age 587 00:26:53,087 --> 00:26:54,367 Speaker 3: where I only read advice. 588 00:26:54,327 --> 00:26:57,487 Speaker 2: And the UK Times is behind payperwall, and they dropped 589 00:26:57,487 --> 00:26:59,167 Speaker 2: it so you could read Dolly Elderton just so the 590 00:26:59,327 --> 00:27:00,887 Speaker 2: m could read Dolly Alderton. 591 00:27:00,607 --> 00:27:00,927 Speaker 1: For a day. 592 00:27:01,207 --> 00:27:06,007 Speaker 3: Dolly Alderson, every broken hearted millennial's favorite author. There was 593 00:27:06,007 --> 00:27:09,047 Speaker 3: just one submission that said, am I right to be 594 00:27:09,127 --> 00:27:12,967 Speaker 3: annoyed with my coupled up friends? So this person said 595 00:27:12,967 --> 00:27:15,167 Speaker 3: that they were single for quite some time, and to 596 00:27:15,207 --> 00:27:18,247 Speaker 3: make herself feel better about her situation, she decided to 597 00:27:18,247 --> 00:27:21,167 Speaker 3: do things that her friends and relationships couldn't do. So 598 00:27:21,247 --> 00:27:23,207 Speaker 3: things are going on solo, dates are going to dinner, 599 00:27:23,287 --> 00:27:25,487 Speaker 3: going to the cinema, going on holiday by herself. 600 00:27:25,607 --> 00:27:27,207 Speaker 1: Why can't you do that? It's a couple. 601 00:27:27,527 --> 00:27:30,687 Speaker 3: She said that she believes those things should be at 602 00:27:30,687 --> 00:27:32,207 Speaker 3: the preserve of the single people. 603 00:27:32,727 --> 00:27:33,767 Speaker 2: People are insufferable. 604 00:27:33,847 --> 00:27:36,487 Speaker 1: She then we like you because you conjoined. 605 00:27:37,447 --> 00:27:38,047 Speaker 2: Keep going. 606 00:27:38,367 --> 00:27:40,607 Speaker 3: She then talked about how a friend in a relationship 607 00:27:40,647 --> 00:27:42,607 Speaker 3: took herself out on a solo date and another friend 608 00:27:42,647 --> 00:27:44,327 Speaker 3: went on a holiday even though she had a boyfriend, 609 00:27:44,367 --> 00:27:46,807 Speaker 3: but she went by herself just because. And she said 610 00:27:46,847 --> 00:27:50,247 Speaker 3: she was ashamed to say that. She was internally incensed. 611 00:27:50,567 --> 00:27:54,847 Speaker 2: So she was mad because she was like, you're, yeah, 612 00:27:55,007 --> 00:27:57,607 Speaker 2: I do things by myself. You do things in couples. 613 00:27:57,807 --> 00:28:02,407 Speaker 3: Yeah, So if people in relationships can do the same 614 00:28:02,487 --> 00:28:05,727 Speaker 3: things that people who are single can do, is there 615 00:28:05,767 --> 00:28:06,487 Speaker 3: a point. 616 00:28:06,487 --> 00:28:08,087 Speaker 1: In being feel like single appropriation? 617 00:28:08,527 --> 00:28:11,647 Speaker 3: Yes, Alderton said, this is a consly way to put it. 618 00:28:11,887 --> 00:28:14,287 Speaker 3: But I think what you're feeling is anger about the 619 00:28:14,367 --> 00:28:17,847 Speaker 3: people with relationship privilege are appropriating your culture as a 620 00:28:17,887 --> 00:28:18,527 Speaker 3: single person. 621 00:28:18,567 --> 00:28:21,487 Speaker 1: Oh that's quite funny. That's so good. See Dolly Olden 622 00:28:21,527 --> 00:28:23,407 Speaker 1: would have said that with tongue in cheek very much. 623 00:28:24,367 --> 00:28:28,647 Speaker 1: I do all of those things because I am still 624 00:28:28,687 --> 00:28:33,887 Speaker 1: an autonomous human. Are married, I go on holidays alone 625 00:28:34,127 --> 00:28:37,727 Speaker 1: there's nothing that a single person could do that I 626 00:28:37,767 --> 00:28:40,207 Speaker 1: can do. It's interesting. I was listening to a podcast 627 00:28:40,567 --> 00:28:43,447 Speaker 1: with these two friends. I think they're both married, but 628 00:28:43,527 --> 00:28:45,927 Speaker 1: these two women who went on holidays together and they're 629 00:28:45,967 --> 00:28:49,447 Speaker 1: in their thirties, and they bumped into like a woman 630 00:28:49,527 --> 00:28:52,007 Speaker 1: who was like in her seventies or something, and she 631 00:28:52,087 --> 00:28:55,007 Speaker 1: was traveling solo, and they assumed she was like, maybe 632 00:28:55,047 --> 00:28:57,567 Speaker 1: we don't adore single whatever, and she's like, no, no, no, 633 00:28:57,967 --> 00:29:01,287 Speaker 1: but my husband didn't come because he's saving up for 634 00:29:01,367 --> 00:29:06,047 Speaker 1: his own trip. He's going to Cambodia. And they were like, oh, 635 00:29:06,167 --> 00:29:08,727 Speaker 1: I think that's what you're probably talking. This person's probably. 636 00:29:08,527 --> 00:29:11,927 Speaker 3: So when you guys do stuff by yourself, yeah, and 637 00:29:11,967 --> 00:29:14,167 Speaker 3: you talk about it with your friends who own relationships, 638 00:29:14,607 --> 00:29:18,447 Speaker 3: what are their reactions? Are they kind of like yourself 639 00:29:19,287 --> 00:29:20,247 Speaker 3: so you don't get a reaction. 640 00:29:20,567 --> 00:29:22,487 Speaker 2: So here's the thing. You know, what I know really 641 00:29:22,567 --> 00:29:26,167 Speaker 2: annoys my single friends who are of an age like me. 642 00:29:26,887 --> 00:29:29,807 Speaker 2: If I might mindlessly be like a lone time, I 643 00:29:29,847 --> 00:29:32,887 Speaker 2: love it and they're feeling lonely and they're like, fuck you, 644 00:29:32,887 --> 00:29:34,767 Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like it must be nice 645 00:29:34,807 --> 00:29:36,327 Speaker 2: for you that that's a treat. It's not a treat 646 00:29:36,367 --> 00:29:38,847 Speaker 2: for me, that kind of thing. I know what we 647 00:29:38,927 --> 00:29:39,367 Speaker 2: mean here. 648 00:29:39,727 --> 00:29:44,047 Speaker 3: Yeah, personally, I think from my experience what I hate 649 00:29:44,327 --> 00:29:47,607 Speaker 3: is being a single person. My friends and relationships always 650 00:29:47,607 --> 00:29:50,167 Speaker 3: expect me to be doing something fun that they can't 651 00:29:50,247 --> 00:29:53,087 Speaker 3: necessarily do all the time. If I had a dollar 652 00:29:53,287 --> 00:29:54,927 Speaker 3: for every person who told me to go to a 653 00:29:54,967 --> 00:29:58,287 Speaker 3: freaking art gallery, I'd have shares. I have shares in 654 00:29:58,287 --> 00:29:59,007 Speaker 3: the art museum. 655 00:29:59,167 --> 00:30:00,887 Speaker 1: Am I mad? Like? Why can't you go to an 656 00:30:00,927 --> 00:30:02,967 Speaker 1: art gallery by yourself if you're in a relationship. 657 00:30:03,007 --> 00:30:05,887 Speaker 2: I think that single people think because when you are single, 658 00:30:06,127 --> 00:30:07,527 Speaker 2: like for a long time, and you don't want to 659 00:30:07,527 --> 00:30:09,527 Speaker 2: because there's different camps. Right, do you I want to 660 00:30:09,527 --> 00:30:10,887 Speaker 2: be single? Don't you want to be single? I don't 661 00:30:10,887 --> 00:30:12,647 Speaker 2: mean you right now? Am I mean? You can talk 662 00:30:12,687 --> 00:30:15,967 Speaker 2: about it on the mark, But like, if you're happily single, 663 00:30:16,127 --> 00:30:18,567 Speaker 2: none of this would bother you. But if you are 664 00:30:18,887 --> 00:30:21,327 Speaker 2: coveting a relationship. 665 00:30:20,607 --> 00:30:22,887 Speaker 3: And you're having to what she was saying, she was 666 00:30:22,927 --> 00:30:24,887 Speaker 3: like trying to make herself feel better about being single 667 00:30:24,927 --> 00:30:26,007 Speaker 3: by doing all these solos. 668 00:30:26,087 --> 00:30:28,767 Speaker 2: So you're telling yourself the good thing about me being 669 00:30:28,807 --> 00:30:31,367 Speaker 2: single is that I get to go and eat in 670 00:30:31,407 --> 00:30:34,167 Speaker 2: that restaurants. I don't have to compromise with that annoying 671 00:30:34,287 --> 00:30:35,967 Speaker 2: snory person on my couch. 672 00:30:36,407 --> 00:30:38,327 Speaker 3: And then your friend with the boyfriend's like, oh, I'm 673 00:30:38,327 --> 00:30:40,767 Speaker 3: going to do that too, and you're like, no, yeah, no, no, no. 674 00:30:40,607 --> 00:30:43,567 Speaker 2: Don't because you think that's your perks, right, you know 675 00:30:43,767 --> 00:30:45,807 Speaker 2: that's your perks is you get to live your own 676 00:30:45,807 --> 00:30:47,367 Speaker 2: life and do your own thing, and everyone else has 677 00:30:47,407 --> 00:30:50,287 Speaker 2: to compromise and be miserable. And the truth is, there 678 00:30:50,327 --> 00:30:52,687 Speaker 2: is a lot of compromise in relationships. There is. I 679 00:30:52,727 --> 00:30:54,167 Speaker 2: sometimes I have to watch things I don't want me 680 00:30:54,287 --> 00:30:56,087 Speaker 2: or doesn't do that. I have to watch things I 681 00:30:56,127 --> 00:30:57,367 Speaker 2: don't want to watch. I have to eat things I 682 00:30:57,367 --> 00:30:59,007 Speaker 2: don't want to eat. Sometimes I have to go hang 683 00:30:59,047 --> 00:31:00,287 Speaker 2: out with people I don't want to hang out with. 684 00:31:00,407 --> 00:31:02,287 Speaker 2: Like it is true if that makes feel any better. 685 00:31:02,167 --> 00:31:03,127 Speaker 3: It does make them feel better. 686 00:31:03,447 --> 00:31:05,567 Speaker 2: But I am also a grown up who can go. 687 00:31:05,887 --> 00:31:07,447 Speaker 2: I'm going to go and do that on my own. 688 00:31:07,647 --> 00:31:08,687 Speaker 2: I can't do that. 689 00:31:08,687 --> 00:31:09,727 Speaker 1: That's so interesting. 690 00:31:10,207 --> 00:31:14,327 Speaker 2: My reco is Colin from account So if you didn't 691 00:31:14,327 --> 00:31:16,247 Speaker 2: watch Colin from Accounts season one, it was a big 692 00:31:16,327 --> 00:31:18,287 Speaker 2: hit it last year, the year before, maybe the year 693 00:31:18,287 --> 00:31:23,927 Speaker 2: before before. On Binge Australian comedy actually became very popular internationally. 694 00:31:24,087 --> 00:31:28,047 Speaker 2: Created and starring Patrick Brammel Harriet Dyer, the premise is 695 00:31:28,767 --> 00:31:31,647 Speaker 2: Unexpected couple I guess right. Two are very good looking people, 696 00:31:31,727 --> 00:31:34,287 Speaker 2: very good looking people who meet each other in Sydney 697 00:31:34,287 --> 00:31:35,927 Speaker 2: when one of them runs over the other one's dog 698 00:31:35,967 --> 00:31:39,527 Speaker 2: and then the hilarity ensues. Anyway, I loved season one, 699 00:31:39,607 --> 00:31:41,607 Speaker 2: but there were things about it that also kind of 700 00:31:41,607 --> 00:31:45,127 Speaker 2: annoyed me. And we are four episodes into season two 701 00:31:45,207 --> 00:31:46,847 Speaker 2: now it is perfection. 702 00:31:47,367 --> 00:31:48,567 Speaker 1: I think it's good to I. 703 00:31:48,487 --> 00:31:52,287 Speaker 2: Can't remember the last time I laughed out loud that much. 704 00:31:53,007 --> 00:31:54,847 Speaker 2: I love that it's kind of a bit gritty and 705 00:31:54,887 --> 00:31:56,927 Speaker 2: a bit wrong, Like it's not one of those shows 706 00:31:56,967 --> 00:31:58,567 Speaker 2: where you think all the time, oh yeah, that was 707 00:31:58,607 --> 00:32:01,087 Speaker 2: a sensible choice, or all the people have got everything 708 00:32:01,127 --> 00:32:03,407 Speaker 2: sorted and every now and again it annoys me how 709 00:32:03,407 --> 00:32:05,407 Speaker 2: they portray older women. Yep. 710 00:32:06,247 --> 00:32:08,727 Speaker 1: Annoyed me about season one, but it's better in season. 711 00:32:08,487 --> 00:32:10,367 Speaker 2: That's a bit of a talking about her mom, well 712 00:32:10,407 --> 00:32:14,327 Speaker 2: her mum and also the ex girlfriend. So, without any spoilers, 713 00:32:14,407 --> 00:32:18,087 Speaker 2: Gordon's ex girlfriend is portrayed as a kind of vet. 714 00:32:18,327 --> 00:32:18,727 Speaker 1: The vet. 715 00:32:18,807 --> 00:32:21,487 Speaker 2: The vet. The vet is portrayed as a kind of 716 00:32:22,127 --> 00:32:25,127 Speaker 2: crazy desperate and that used to annoy me, and it 717 00:32:25,207 --> 00:32:26,607 Speaker 2: still is a little bit of a sound of the 718 00:32:26,687 --> 00:32:28,727 Speaker 2: oyster for me. But then I have to keep reminding 719 00:32:28,727 --> 00:32:30,927 Speaker 2: myself that I don't have to like everything about a 720 00:32:30,927 --> 00:32:35,647 Speaker 2: piece of art. I just think it's great. How likely 721 00:32:35,807 --> 00:32:37,967 Speaker 2: do you think it is that I could naturally get 722 00:32:37,967 --> 00:32:38,847 Speaker 2: a woman pregnant? 723 00:32:39,247 --> 00:32:39,807 Speaker 3: Exclusive? 724 00:32:40,447 --> 00:32:41,007 Speaker 5: What do you mean? 725 00:32:41,127 --> 00:32:41,367 Speaker 1: Yes? 726 00:32:41,527 --> 00:32:45,887 Speaker 3: Why light addressed? It's a skirt and top new? 727 00:32:46,007 --> 00:32:48,967 Speaker 2: Or have you lost a bit of weight? Not that 728 00:32:49,007 --> 00:32:51,047 Speaker 2: you need to like, you look great to meet anyways, 729 00:32:51,487 --> 00:32:54,007 Speaker 2: Like you could balloon and I'll be fine, but you 730 00:32:54,007 --> 00:32:56,007 Speaker 2: don't need to get out, miya. 731 00:32:56,127 --> 00:32:59,087 Speaker 1: Your recommendation is some people think I'm the big boss 732 00:32:59,127 --> 00:33:02,767 Speaker 1: here at Mumma, but no, I'm never happier than when 733 00:33:02,807 --> 00:33:07,007 Speaker 1: I'm actually the cold face making shit. People would be 734 00:33:07,047 --> 00:33:11,327 Speaker 1: surprised I move furniture around here here. I like doing things. 735 00:33:11,407 --> 00:33:13,327 Speaker 3: I remember one time I passed you and you're like 736 00:33:13,567 --> 00:33:15,327 Speaker 3: buying tables on your laptop. 737 00:33:15,767 --> 00:33:18,687 Speaker 1: Not only did I buy the table, I assembled the 738 00:33:18,727 --> 00:33:19,927 Speaker 1: table with an Alan key. 739 00:33:20,287 --> 00:33:20,887 Speaker 2: That's very me. 740 00:33:21,567 --> 00:33:22,087 Speaker 3: I love it. 741 00:33:22,167 --> 00:33:24,887 Speaker 1: I love getting my hand study. So you may have 742 00:33:24,927 --> 00:33:28,327 Speaker 1: heard of a new Blockbuster podcast called mid that launched recently. 743 00:33:28,727 --> 00:33:30,727 Speaker 3: It has a great host, it's got a very. 744 00:33:30,567 --> 00:33:33,607 Speaker 1: Sexy host, and it's been a big hit and Holy 745 00:33:33,607 --> 00:33:34,887 Speaker 1: and I've been wanting to do this for a really, 746 00:33:34,887 --> 00:33:37,687 Speaker 1: really long time and she's gone ahead and done it, 747 00:33:37,687 --> 00:33:40,967 Speaker 1: which has been glorious. But I've wanted to build some 748 00:33:41,047 --> 00:33:45,887 Speaker 1: supporting stuff around it, like she's an Instagram account, a newsletter, 749 00:33:45,927 --> 00:33:48,527 Speaker 1: because I feel like as a woman in this demographic 750 00:33:48,527 --> 00:33:50,367 Speaker 1: as Holly is as well gen X women or women 751 00:33:50,407 --> 00:33:53,447 Speaker 1: over forty. Really, with all due respect to your people, 752 00:33:53,527 --> 00:33:57,407 Speaker 1: am sometimes it's tiring being around your people got it 753 00:33:57,487 --> 00:33:58,007 Speaker 1: and they're. 754 00:33:57,847 --> 00:34:00,167 Speaker 3: Ways thank God. I'm just a fill in host and. 755 00:34:00,247 --> 00:34:04,247 Speaker 1: Sometimes, oh Jesse, it's just okay. Sometimes we just like 756 00:34:04,327 --> 00:34:07,887 Speaker 1: to be amongst our own kind. And so I have 757 00:34:08,047 --> 00:34:12,847 Speaker 1: been myself populating our our mid Instagram account and writing 758 00:34:12,887 --> 00:34:15,247 Speaker 1: the mid newsletter. I'm doing it in the back heade 759 00:34:15,407 --> 00:34:18,127 Speaker 1: the social lead. I go, I'm the contact. 760 00:34:18,407 --> 00:34:20,967 Speaker 2: Time I pick up my phone, med by Mom and 761 00:34:21,047 --> 00:34:24,367 Speaker 2: mea which is the Instagram account, has another hilarious meme, 762 00:34:24,447 --> 00:34:27,687 Speaker 2: another video, and I'm like, what is she doing? 763 00:34:28,367 --> 00:34:29,487 Speaker 3: I used to be in the social team. 764 00:34:29,567 --> 00:34:32,247 Speaker 1: You're killing it, except I'm not. Because I got a 765 00:34:32,327 --> 00:34:34,127 Speaker 1: message from Instagram the other day saying one of my 766 00:34:34,167 --> 00:34:36,527 Speaker 1: posts was taking down because it had breach copyright laws, 767 00:34:36,527 --> 00:34:38,767 Speaker 1: and I'm like, whoops, best time, best I. 768 00:34:39,127 --> 00:34:41,647 Speaker 3: The rules, not breaking law anyone. 769 00:34:41,967 --> 00:34:45,327 Speaker 1: So you know, we're learning. We're learning. It's trial and error. 770 00:34:45,407 --> 00:34:49,527 Speaker 1: But there's some things about being this age where I'm 771 00:34:49,567 --> 00:34:52,727 Speaker 1: actually really disinterested in other people of other ages, and 772 00:34:52,807 --> 00:34:54,767 Speaker 1: I just want to have somewhere. I mean sometimes I 773 00:34:54,807 --> 00:34:56,767 Speaker 1: am like, don't get me wrong, I like learning about 774 00:34:56,807 --> 00:34:59,167 Speaker 1: socks and changing up my socks, but I also want 775 00:34:59,167 --> 00:35:02,407 Speaker 1: to be a place where everyone is confused about socks, 776 00:35:02,967 --> 00:35:04,367 Speaker 1: and that's what it is. So we will put a 777 00:35:04,407 --> 00:35:07,607 Speaker 1: link to the newsletter. It's different to the out Loud newsletter. 778 00:35:08,007 --> 00:35:09,847 Speaker 1: It is so good, of course, of course the mid 779 00:35:09,847 --> 00:35:13,407 Speaker 1: podcast is so good, and the Instagram account will link 780 00:35:13,407 --> 00:35:14,367 Speaker 1: to them all in the show notes. 781 00:35:16,407 --> 00:35:20,007 Speaker 2: Every Tuesday and Thursday we drop new segments of Mom 782 00:35:20,047 --> 00:35:23,407 Speaker 2: and Me Are out Loud just for Mom and Mia subscribers. 783 00:35:23,967 --> 00:35:25,807 Speaker 2: Follow the link in the show notes to get your 784 00:35:25,887 --> 00:35:28,687 Speaker 2: daily dose of out Loud and a big thank you 785 00:35:28,767 --> 00:35:42,407 Speaker 2: to all our current subscribers. It's best and worst time. 786 00:35:42,487 --> 00:35:43,487 Speaker 2: Who's going to go first? 787 00:35:43,607 --> 00:35:44,247 Speaker 3: Where are we up to? 788 00:35:44,327 --> 00:35:48,047 Speaker 2: Emily Vernon, I can go first. Okay, and remember everybody 789 00:35:48,167 --> 00:35:50,567 Speaker 2: the thing about best and worst. This is the bit 790 00:35:50,607 --> 00:35:52,287 Speaker 2: where we talk about our personal lives. So though we 791 00:35:52,287 --> 00:35:54,127 Speaker 2: may have done that a bit already today a little bit, 792 00:35:55,287 --> 00:35:57,887 Speaker 2: it's very much from the little, to the silly, to 793 00:35:57,927 --> 00:35:59,127 Speaker 2: the ridiculous to the offensive. 794 00:35:59,367 --> 00:36:02,167 Speaker 3: Go so my worst, we start with worse? Right, Yeah, 795 00:36:02,207 --> 00:36:04,487 Speaker 3: my worst rule. I know I'm looking at your mind. 796 00:36:04,487 --> 00:36:08,647 Speaker 3: I'm very strict. I have realized that I may potentially 797 00:36:08,807 --> 00:36:12,047 Speaker 3: kind of be the side friend in my friendship group. 798 00:36:12,087 --> 00:36:13,807 Speaker 1: In this podcast, yes, in. 799 00:36:13,807 --> 00:36:15,927 Speaker 3: This podcast and in all my this podcast is not 800 00:36:15,967 --> 00:36:17,927 Speaker 3: making me feel better about my worst? Can I just 801 00:36:17,967 --> 00:36:22,087 Speaker 3: say I want to rebrand myself as the accidental side 802 00:36:22,087 --> 00:36:26,087 Speaker 3: friend via convenience because I realized that a lot of 803 00:36:26,127 --> 00:36:28,407 Speaker 3: my friends catch up without me. 804 00:36:29,167 --> 00:36:30,007 Speaker 2: I discovered this. 805 00:36:30,127 --> 00:36:31,847 Speaker 1: Did we talk about the side friend on this ship? 806 00:36:31,887 --> 00:36:33,887 Speaker 3: Talked about it's that friend who's like kind of the 807 00:36:33,927 --> 00:36:37,127 Speaker 3: third who's like, I'm kind of like forgotten on the side, and. 808 00:36:37,087 --> 00:36:37,847 Speaker 1: That has to keep going. 809 00:36:37,887 --> 00:36:40,887 Speaker 3: Hey guys, yeah, guy. And I've noticed recently that I 810 00:36:40,927 --> 00:36:44,647 Speaker 3: was looking through a lot of my different friendship groups 811 00:36:44,647 --> 00:36:47,287 Speaker 3: because I have a lot of friends chats and for 812 00:36:47,407 --> 00:36:49,687 Speaker 3: like the last night four or five messages. I've been 813 00:36:49,687 --> 00:36:51,887 Speaker 3: the one asking and initiating and catch up. 814 00:36:52,127 --> 00:36:54,687 Speaker 1: Do you think they all have side chats without you left? 815 00:36:55,447 --> 00:36:56,967 Speaker 3: And then I put it together, like a lot of 816 00:36:56,967 --> 00:36:59,367 Speaker 3: my friends either live really close together or live together, 817 00:36:59,567 --> 00:37:02,687 Speaker 3: or they either work together, or they have like a 818 00:37:02,767 --> 00:37:04,847 Speaker 3: mutual friend like their partners might be friends as well. 819 00:37:04,887 --> 00:37:06,887 Speaker 3: And I'm always the one who's the odd one out 820 00:37:06,927 --> 00:37:11,607 Speaker 3: in that dynamic. I'm the third and I'm like, anyway. 821 00:37:11,487 --> 00:37:13,647 Speaker 2: I think you're going through a life phase at the 822 00:37:13,647 --> 00:37:16,487 Speaker 2: minute where you're noticing a lot of return. Last week 823 00:37:16,527 --> 00:37:18,967 Speaker 2: it was about like no one bought me a birthday cake, 824 00:37:19,007 --> 00:37:21,407 Speaker 2: my parents don't call me enough or something, And today 825 00:37:21,407 --> 00:37:23,927 Speaker 2: it's about the side friends. You feel a bit sidelined, dull, 826 00:37:24,127 --> 00:37:26,567 Speaker 2: feeling a bit she's caught a life crisis. Yes, I 827 00:37:26,607 --> 00:37:27,887 Speaker 2: think it is. It's the Satain return. 828 00:37:27,887 --> 00:37:28,927 Speaker 3: I think it's my certain return. 829 00:37:29,047 --> 00:37:31,767 Speaker 2: I look at your social life. Obviously, get a frecial media. 830 00:37:32,407 --> 00:37:35,767 Speaker 3: I'm not getting a friend like and has the best 831 00:37:35,767 --> 00:37:36,407 Speaker 3: social life for. 832 00:37:36,407 --> 00:37:38,487 Speaker 2: Always eating my highlight reel. 833 00:37:38,847 --> 00:37:43,327 Speaker 3: My best was Vivid. Oh you went I went to Vivid? Well, okay, 834 00:37:43,367 --> 00:37:45,127 Speaker 3: so Vivid's kind of like if you're not don't live 835 00:37:45,167 --> 00:37:47,007 Speaker 3: in Sydney. It's like this big festival in Sydney that 836 00:37:47,007 --> 00:37:48,927 Speaker 3: happens over two weeks. It's a big light festival. A 837 00:37:48,927 --> 00:37:51,047 Speaker 3: lot of artists come here and show off the exhibitions, 838 00:37:51,087 --> 00:37:53,327 Speaker 3: a lot of people travel here to watch it. Bigger 839 00:37:53,327 --> 00:37:55,207 Speaker 3: and bigger every year. It's so big this year. And 840 00:37:55,287 --> 00:37:57,807 Speaker 3: because I live in the city, it's literally at my doorstep. 841 00:37:58,007 --> 00:38:01,687 Speaker 3: Like I walk out of my apartment block and I 842 00:38:01,727 --> 00:38:02,207 Speaker 3: am vivid. 843 00:38:02,767 --> 00:38:05,967 Speaker 2: You start blowing you. 844 00:38:07,407 --> 00:38:16,367 Speaker 3: An exhibition? Or is she really I am exhibition? People like, 845 00:38:16,407 --> 00:38:17,007 Speaker 3: look at that one. 846 00:38:17,207 --> 00:38:19,287 Speaker 1: It's just me. That's great life. 847 00:38:20,567 --> 00:38:23,287 Speaker 3: So there's like this big like fire kitchen right outside 848 00:38:23,327 --> 00:38:26,487 Speaker 3: my building. I don't really know, but the kitchen and 849 00:38:26,487 --> 00:38:29,207 Speaker 3: then's fire. So they're like guys and kitchens cooking. They've 850 00:38:29,207 --> 00:38:31,287 Speaker 3: got like chefs from like American around the world to 851 00:38:31,327 --> 00:38:33,367 Speaker 3: come here and they're like making all these different meat 852 00:38:33,367 --> 00:38:35,527 Speaker 3: things and then these fire things go up and there's 853 00:38:35,527 --> 00:38:37,327 Speaker 3: all these exhibitions. I'm like, we're so lucky to live 854 00:38:37,367 --> 00:38:38,327 Speaker 3: in this beautiful city. 855 00:38:38,607 --> 00:38:39,127 Speaker 1: I don't think. 856 00:38:40,727 --> 00:38:41,527 Speaker 2: You definitely are. 857 00:38:41,567 --> 00:38:42,367 Speaker 3: We should go tonight. 858 00:38:42,447 --> 00:38:44,287 Speaker 1: Okay. The reason I didn't know what was on is 859 00:38:44,327 --> 00:38:48,487 Speaker 1: because my worst I blame you. I've been in bed 860 00:38:48,527 --> 00:38:50,087 Speaker 1: for the last five days with the flu. 861 00:38:50,287 --> 00:38:52,807 Speaker 3: Oh, that don't blame me, because you were sick last week. 862 00:38:52,647 --> 00:38:54,407 Speaker 1: And you were since we last recorded. I know. I 863 00:38:54,447 --> 00:38:56,727 Speaker 1: struggled a little bit through that show, and then I 864 00:38:56,767 --> 00:38:59,127 Speaker 1: went home after I went to the gynd of coologist 865 00:38:59,207 --> 00:39:00,807 Speaker 1: to check out my flush period and. 866 00:39:00,767 --> 00:39:01,647 Speaker 3: You got your Guyino sick. 867 00:39:02,527 --> 00:39:04,647 Speaker 1: I hope I didn't get my guy and I sick actually, 868 00:39:05,007 --> 00:39:06,487 Speaker 1: but I was like, I really need to go home, 869 00:39:06,527 --> 00:39:07,967 Speaker 1: and then I'm like, no, I really have to get 870 00:39:07,967 --> 00:39:11,807 Speaker 1: in the stirrups. Just feel even better about myself. So 871 00:39:12,327 --> 00:39:14,807 Speaker 1: she had a little look at my cervix. She said, 872 00:39:15,007 --> 00:39:17,847 Speaker 1: if in case anyone who's interested, not but anyone asked 873 00:39:20,807 --> 00:39:23,207 Speaker 1: I didn't have a polyp because I thought maybe I've 874 00:39:23,247 --> 00:39:23,847 Speaker 1: got a polyp. 875 00:39:27,167 --> 00:39:29,247 Speaker 3: You don't have a polyp, but you do have the fluid. 876 00:39:29,047 --> 00:39:31,367 Speaker 1: To get out how loudest I want to know. They 877 00:39:31,367 --> 00:39:35,127 Speaker 1: want a service update. So she was like, look, I 878 00:39:35,167 --> 00:39:38,127 Speaker 1: can't see anything up there apart from you know, your cervix. 879 00:39:38,407 --> 00:39:40,607 Speaker 1: I'm like, but I've got no ovaries anymore because I 880 00:39:40,647 --> 00:39:42,687 Speaker 1: had them removed, which is another story, And like, how 881 00:39:42,807 --> 00:39:45,327 Speaker 1: what's bleeding? And she said, oh, it's because you're an 882 00:39:45,407 --> 00:39:48,487 Speaker 1: hr T you can sometimes still get that. So she said, 883 00:39:48,487 --> 00:39:50,287 Speaker 1: if it's annoying, you can get a Marina, and I'm like, no, 884 00:39:50,327 --> 00:39:51,927 Speaker 1: it's not annoying. I mean, I did bleed through my 885 00:39:51,967 --> 00:39:54,407 Speaker 1: traxit pants. But anyway, this wasn't my worst. 886 00:39:54,687 --> 00:40:00,927 Speaker 3: This was. 887 00:40:00,647 --> 00:40:02,767 Speaker 1: Absolutely that's funny, said, but proper flu. Right, So then 888 00:40:02,807 --> 00:40:04,487 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, and then everyone's got pneumonia. 889 00:40:04,487 --> 00:40:05,647 Speaker 2: So I thought I'll go to a joctor. 890 00:40:05,847 --> 00:40:07,567 Speaker 3: Don't look at me saying proper flu. I had the 891 00:40:07,567 --> 00:40:08,327 Speaker 3: problem because you. 892 00:40:08,727 --> 00:40:12,087 Speaker 1: Was like the flu, and I'm always very I don't 893 00:40:12,167 --> 00:40:14,207 Speaker 1: I would need proof of your flu. Don't just say 894 00:40:14,247 --> 00:40:16,807 Speaker 1: I've got flu, because I don't like people upgrading. 895 00:40:17,927 --> 00:40:18,727 Speaker 3: I don't like it. 896 00:40:18,727 --> 00:40:22,407 Speaker 1: It's an unauthorised upgrade of your illness. So I went 897 00:40:22,407 --> 00:40:24,167 Speaker 1: because I was worried I've got asthma. I was worried, 898 00:40:24,207 --> 00:40:24,687 Speaker 1: and this is a. 899 00:40:24,807 --> 00:40:25,447 Speaker 3: Very two time. 900 00:40:26,287 --> 00:40:30,887 Speaker 1: I might have bronchitis or pneumonia because I helped anxiety Jesus. 901 00:40:31,047 --> 00:40:33,207 Speaker 2: So I got swamped with the doctor. 902 00:40:34,127 --> 00:40:37,367 Speaker 1: Believe me on my she said, and the results came back. 903 00:40:37,367 --> 00:40:39,727 Speaker 1: I had nothing, but I did have influence a I'm 904 00:40:39,767 --> 00:40:43,407 Speaker 1: an influencerkay, and so that's my. 905 00:40:43,407 --> 00:40:44,407 Speaker 2: Most You went to bed. 906 00:40:44,807 --> 00:40:47,567 Speaker 1: What's your best did the best was having the flu. 907 00:40:47,687 --> 00:40:49,967 Speaker 3: I've come this is bullshit. 908 00:40:50,287 --> 00:40:52,767 Speaker 1: Stopped you because I have to say I didn't feel 909 00:40:52,887 --> 00:40:55,607 Speaker 1: that bad. I didn't feel great, but I canceled two 910 00:40:55,647 --> 00:40:57,567 Speaker 1: days worth of interviews. I had a couple of no 911 00:40:57,607 --> 00:40:59,247 Speaker 1: filters that I had to cancel, which was a shame. 912 00:40:59,287 --> 00:41:02,047 Speaker 1: But then I was just in bed. My husband's away. 913 00:41:02,207 --> 00:41:05,047 Speaker 1: My children are grown up enough to sort the shit out. 914 00:41:05,047 --> 00:41:07,287 Speaker 3: I feel like you're impeding on my single person culture. 915 00:41:07,767 --> 00:41:10,607 Speaker 1: So you know, I was in my bed. I had 916 00:41:10,767 --> 00:41:14,807 Speaker 1: five devices scattered around me, a Kindle, two phones, a laptop, 917 00:41:14,927 --> 00:41:16,567 Speaker 1: an iPad. I don't know why I needed them, all, 918 00:41:16,727 --> 00:41:19,847 Speaker 1: box of tissues, some fidget toys. I wasn't hungry, so 919 00:41:19,927 --> 00:41:23,847 Speaker 1: food wasn't a problem, and I just hung out. 920 00:41:24,127 --> 00:41:25,607 Speaker 2: I said, you like it. 921 00:41:25,167 --> 00:41:26,567 Speaker 3: I go crazy. 922 00:41:26,607 --> 00:41:28,887 Speaker 1: I think I told you, well, when you're sick enough, 923 00:41:28,887 --> 00:41:31,207 Speaker 1: you don't. It's when you start to get bored. Is 924 00:41:31,207 --> 00:41:33,127 Speaker 1: when you know you're getting better. And it was a 925 00:41:33,127 --> 00:41:36,007 Speaker 1: long weekend and I just I didn't have to talk. 926 00:41:36,047 --> 00:41:39,087 Speaker 1: I really needed the recharge. So I didn't feel good, 927 00:41:39,247 --> 00:41:42,407 Speaker 1: but I liked the lifestyle. Had a ford agree. 928 00:41:44,487 --> 00:41:47,127 Speaker 3: I respect your decision to talk to your bed. I 929 00:41:47,167 --> 00:41:47,847 Speaker 3: took to my bed. 930 00:41:47,967 --> 00:41:51,687 Speaker 2: Yeah, and to do that all right, I'm going to 931 00:41:51,807 --> 00:41:54,167 Speaker 2: keep mine short because they are both cervix related, and 932 00:41:54,167 --> 00:41:56,887 Speaker 2: I think everyone said quite enough about us one day 933 00:41:57,847 --> 00:42:00,207 Speaker 2: after giving me a shit last week for her talking 934 00:42:00,207 --> 00:42:02,247 Speaker 2: about her flash period, and I think I sat here 935 00:42:02,247 --> 00:42:03,687 Speaker 2: and said, I haven't had a period for years. I 936 00:42:03,727 --> 00:42:05,807 Speaker 2: would freak out if that happened to me. I caught 937 00:42:05,807 --> 00:42:06,567 Speaker 2: her flash period. 938 00:42:06,607 --> 00:42:07,207 Speaker 3: Oh my god. 939 00:42:08,487 --> 00:42:11,167 Speaker 2: I messaged her and I said, fuck you, I'm bleeding 940 00:42:11,447 --> 00:42:12,807 Speaker 2: like the flatmates are open. 941 00:42:13,087 --> 00:42:15,367 Speaker 3: We're like flatmates or have your umbrella? 942 00:42:15,767 --> 00:42:17,847 Speaker 1: Who knew we could still sink each other? That means 943 00:42:17,847 --> 00:42:18,967 Speaker 1: I'm the dominant one. 944 00:42:20,527 --> 00:42:25,767 Speaker 3: Alphabata the top dogs. So how did you go? Did 945 00:42:25,807 --> 00:42:26,647 Speaker 3: you bleed it? 946 00:42:26,647 --> 00:42:28,887 Speaker 2: It hasn't been as scary and heavy as yours, but 947 00:42:28,927 --> 00:42:31,367 Speaker 2: it's like, I'm not even joking out louders. I know 948 00:42:31,367 --> 00:42:32,767 Speaker 2: you don't need to know this, but I have not 949 00:42:32,887 --> 00:42:35,247 Speaker 2: had a period for years because I had Marina. Then 950 00:42:35,247 --> 00:42:38,047 Speaker 2: I had my Marina taken out, but nothing happened like 951 00:42:38,127 --> 00:42:40,847 Speaker 2: I'm on estrogen. Although I have been stretching my patches 952 00:42:40,847 --> 00:42:43,487 Speaker 2: out because they're so hard to find. That could be one. 953 00:42:43,727 --> 00:42:46,367 Speaker 2: And then last week I started getting really sore boobs, 954 00:42:46,367 --> 00:42:48,847 Speaker 2: and I actually said to Brent, I got really sore boobs. 955 00:42:48,847 --> 00:42:52,087 Speaker 2: I do not have to be pregnant, she said, I said, 956 00:42:52,087 --> 00:42:54,607 Speaker 2: I copy the world's oldest pregnant. Personally looked at me 957 00:42:54,647 --> 00:42:57,007 Speaker 2: in horror and abject terror, and I was like, I'm 958 00:42:57,047 --> 00:42:59,727 Speaker 2: sure I'm not anyway, And I got my period really weird? 959 00:42:59,887 --> 00:43:00,887 Speaker 3: Was it kind of nostalgic? 960 00:43:01,007 --> 00:43:03,087 Speaker 2: And now I'd forgotten how annoying it is. But my 961 00:43:03,167 --> 00:43:05,727 Speaker 2: best is that and also service related, but more of 962 00:43:05,727 --> 00:43:07,927 Speaker 2: a p s A. Really friends. I went to have 963 00:43:08,007 --> 00:43:09,847 Speaker 2: what we used to call a phaps mere the other week, 964 00:43:10,207 --> 00:43:12,607 Speaker 2: and now it's just called a cervical screen and you 965 00:43:12,647 --> 00:43:13,927 Speaker 2: can do it yourself now. 966 00:43:14,527 --> 00:43:16,807 Speaker 1: I might have been a branding cervical screen versus peraps 967 00:43:16,967 --> 00:43:17,327 Speaker 1: it is. 968 00:43:17,207 --> 00:43:19,567 Speaker 2: Isn't it cervical screening? You can do it yourself now. 969 00:43:19,607 --> 00:43:21,607 Speaker 2: And I've read about this. I'd heard about this. And 970 00:43:21,647 --> 00:43:22,927 Speaker 2: the thing is is the way it works to go 971 00:43:22,927 --> 00:43:24,487 Speaker 2: to the doctor and you can choose to either do 972 00:43:24,527 --> 00:43:26,407 Speaker 2: it the old fat world. With my GP, I could 973 00:43:26,447 --> 00:43:27,767 Speaker 2: choose to either jump on the table do it the 974 00:43:27,807 --> 00:43:32,687 Speaker 2: old fashioned way, or they give you it's like and 975 00:43:32,727 --> 00:43:34,167 Speaker 2: you can choose take it home or do it at 976 00:43:34,167 --> 00:43:36,487 Speaker 2: the doctor, so I could do in front of the doctor. No, 977 00:43:37,927 --> 00:43:39,727 Speaker 2: why would AM? 978 00:43:39,887 --> 00:43:41,687 Speaker 1: Sure you're doing it? 979 00:43:41,687 --> 00:43:43,887 Speaker 2: It's got instructions on the back. And I think we're 980 00:43:43,927 --> 00:43:46,207 Speaker 2: all very prepped for this now because we've been testing 981 00:43:46,207 --> 00:43:47,967 Speaker 2: ourselves for COVID for a long time. Although it's a 982 00:43:47,967 --> 00:43:51,287 Speaker 2: different hole. Obviously, I went in the bathroom at the doctor. 983 00:43:51,407 --> 00:43:53,087 Speaker 2: You just do it and then you screw it back 984 00:43:53,127 --> 00:43:54,767 Speaker 2: in its little tube, put the lid back on, popping 985 00:43:54,847 --> 00:43:57,927 Speaker 2: in a plastic bag, leave it with the lucky receptionist. 986 00:43:57,327 --> 00:43:58,247 Speaker 3: At the front desk. 987 00:43:59,487 --> 00:44:02,087 Speaker 2: And the thing is is, I'm not really that squeamish 988 00:44:02,087 --> 00:44:03,927 Speaker 2: about those things. And obviously I've been getting perhaps me 989 00:44:04,047 --> 00:44:06,367 Speaker 2: is for a very very long time. But I thought 990 00:44:06,407 --> 00:44:08,687 Speaker 2: about all the women I know who do really struggle 991 00:44:09,047 --> 00:44:11,447 Speaker 2: to perhaps meters, whether they've got uginismus where they've just 992 00:44:11,487 --> 00:44:13,847 Speaker 2: got anxiety around it, whether they just freak out about 993 00:44:13,887 --> 00:44:16,087 Speaker 2: the mettal thing they wind in there and everything, which 994 00:44:16,127 --> 00:44:17,607 Speaker 2: is all fine, But the thing is is really important 995 00:44:17,647 --> 00:44:19,367 Speaker 2: to get them. We all know that, right, you got 996 00:44:19,367 --> 00:44:22,247 Speaker 2: to get your health checks, even when you're older, even 997 00:44:22,247 --> 00:44:23,847 Speaker 2: if you don't up period, it doesn't matter, Go get them, 998 00:44:23,887 --> 00:44:24,327 Speaker 2: Go get them. 999 00:44:24,487 --> 00:44:25,167 Speaker 3: And so I just. 1000 00:44:25,087 --> 00:44:27,327 Speaker 2: Thought, this is amazing. My daughter, for example, will probably 1001 00:44:27,327 --> 00:44:30,007 Speaker 2: never really have to jump up and get the speculum. 1002 00:44:30,007 --> 00:44:32,207 Speaker 1: And you know what, I think the worst part about 1003 00:44:32,207 --> 00:44:34,567 Speaker 1: it is, which is why I'm excited about this, is 1004 00:44:34,607 --> 00:44:37,167 Speaker 1: the small talk, because I had to do that with 1005 00:44:37,247 --> 00:44:39,127 Speaker 1: my guy, not last week when I went. When you're 1006 00:44:39,207 --> 00:44:41,247 Speaker 1: lying there, you got your knickers off. 1007 00:44:41,607 --> 00:44:43,447 Speaker 2: I'm worrying about your nickers, you know when you walk 1008 00:44:43,447 --> 00:44:43,927 Speaker 2: it and you're like. 1009 00:44:44,087 --> 00:44:46,327 Speaker 1: And you hyde your nickers, which is so funny given 1010 00:44:46,327 --> 00:44:47,247 Speaker 1: what they're about to see. 1011 00:44:47,287 --> 00:44:49,887 Speaker 2: Wait, you hide you put them money nickers. 1012 00:44:50,527 --> 00:44:51,647 Speaker 1: You don't hide your nickers. 1013 00:44:52,367 --> 00:44:53,847 Speaker 3: Come on, just throw them on the floor. 1014 00:44:53,927 --> 00:44:55,207 Speaker 1: I always hide my knickers. 1015 00:44:55,767 --> 00:45:00,727 Speaker 2: You fortuld your nickers and into the clothes on the chair. 1016 00:45:00,807 --> 00:45:01,487 Speaker 1: I don't know why. 1017 00:45:01,607 --> 00:45:07,367 Speaker 2: Given your doctor, someone sits on your clothes wherever. 1018 00:45:07,127 --> 00:45:09,847 Speaker 1: But you hide them. I don't know why. 1019 00:45:10,047 --> 00:45:10,727 Speaker 2: I don't know why. 1020 00:45:10,807 --> 00:45:12,847 Speaker 1: Anyway, and then you's just lying there and then you 1021 00:45:12,927 --> 00:45:16,727 Speaker 1: have to go. So how are the kids exact? Cat 1022 00:45:16,807 --> 00:45:20,567 Speaker 1: like being busy the weather? I find that excruciating. So 1023 00:45:20,647 --> 00:45:22,807 Speaker 1: I'm quite excited about sticking it up myself. 1024 00:45:23,247 --> 00:45:26,527 Speaker 2: So my best was that experience and thinking how the 1025 00:45:26,527 --> 00:45:28,647 Speaker 2: world has changed and some things have got better, not worse. 1026 00:45:28,687 --> 00:45:30,887 Speaker 2: It's goodness anyway. I think we've talked about cervix is 1027 00:45:30,927 --> 00:45:33,647 Speaker 2: for way too long. I don't know it's time to 1028 00:45:33,727 --> 00:45:36,607 Speaker 2: close out this week. I think my friend Mia tell 1029 00:45:36,607 --> 00:45:39,527 Speaker 2: everyone about the episode for subscribers that they could get 1030 00:45:39,687 --> 00:45:40,487 Speaker 2: so and. 1031 00:45:40,487 --> 00:45:42,967 Speaker 1: Out Louder reached out to me via DM and it's 1032 00:45:43,007 --> 00:45:45,847 Speaker 1: something that we popped into the Outluts facebook grouping on 1033 00:45:45,847 --> 00:45:48,367 Speaker 1: the Instagram page about a dilemma she had with her 1034 00:45:48,367 --> 00:45:51,407 Speaker 1: twenty three year old daughter who went out and had 1035 00:45:51,407 --> 00:45:53,967 Speaker 1: a really terrible night out and she didn't know how 1036 00:45:53,967 --> 00:45:56,607 Speaker 1: to help her daughter deal with it. And we read 1037 00:45:56,607 --> 00:45:59,687 Speaker 1: all of your replies and we wanted to think about 1038 00:45:59,687 --> 00:46:01,727 Speaker 1: it and give our advice as well to this out 1039 00:46:01,767 --> 00:46:04,287 Speaker 1: Louder So I have a listener. We'll put a link 1040 00:46:04,327 --> 00:46:05,327 Speaker 1: in the show notes. 1041 00:46:05,687 --> 00:46:08,847 Speaker 2: That is it. That is it for the week. Friday 1042 00:46:08,967 --> 00:46:13,327 Speaker 2: Fun finished. Thank you Emily Verndam for filling in and 1043 00:46:13,567 --> 00:46:15,447 Speaker 2: coming and sitting here and being the side friend on 1044 00:46:15,527 --> 00:46:15,847 Speaker 2: us show. 1045 00:46:16,007 --> 00:46:18,527 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, and thank you for also saying 1046 00:46:18,647 --> 00:46:20,687 Speaker 3: that you're kind of over people like me. 1047 00:46:21,247 --> 00:46:21,527 Speaker 1: Gen Z. 1048 00:46:22,767 --> 00:46:25,287 Speaker 3: Sometimes even I do follow the Instagram. I love the 1049 00:46:25,327 --> 00:46:25,887 Speaker 3: mid Instagram. 1050 00:46:25,927 --> 00:46:26,127 Speaker 1: I know. 1051 00:46:26,247 --> 00:46:30,207 Speaker 2: Look, you're a very broad minded young person. And also 1052 00:46:30,287 --> 00:46:33,327 Speaker 2: a big thank you to our amazing team, to Emily 1053 00:46:33,367 --> 00:46:36,927 Speaker 2: and Gazillas, our producer, our assistant producer, Charlie Blackman, Leah 1054 00:46:36,927 --> 00:46:39,327 Speaker 2: Porges who does audio production, and our brand manager Kerry 1055 00:46:39,367 --> 00:46:41,687 Speaker 2: Scott Jackson. And to all of you out louders for 1056 00:46:41,727 --> 00:46:43,767 Speaker 2: listening to us for another week. We love you loads 1057 00:46:43,767 --> 00:46:44,807 Speaker 2: and we'll see you on Monday. 1058 00:46:44,967 --> 00:46:46,567 Speaker 3: Bye bye, see ya. 1059 00:46:46,767 --> 00:46:47,567 Speaker 1: Shout out to. 1060 00:46:47,607 --> 00:46:50,487 Speaker 2: Any Mum and Maya subscribers listening. If you love the 1061 00:46:50,527 --> 00:46:52,887 Speaker 2: show and want to support us as well. 1062 00:46:52,727 --> 00:46:55,127 Speaker 1: Subscribing to Mom and Mia is the very best way 1063 00:46:55,167 --> 00:46:57,687 Speaker 1: to do so. There is a link in the episode description.