1 00:00:10,405 --> 00:00:13,125 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mama Mia podcast. 2 00:00:13,925 --> 00:00:16,885 Speaker 2: Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:16,885 --> 00:00:20,605 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. I'm Meya Friedman and 4 00:00:20,645 --> 00:00:23,325 Speaker 2: the team at Mumma Mea are bringing you over one 5 00:00:23,365 --> 00:00:27,365 Speaker 2: hundred hours of the very best of the podcasts that 6 00:00:27,405 --> 00:00:31,485 Speaker 2: we've made from across our podcast network. Do you know 7 00:00:31,525 --> 00:00:34,485 Speaker 2: that we have something like fifty six different podcasts here 8 00:00:34,525 --> 00:00:38,165 Speaker 2: at Mamma Mia. And if you follow this one, we 9 00:00:38,325 --> 00:00:41,405 Speaker 2: have selected some others that you might like to listen 10 00:00:41,405 --> 00:00:43,925 Speaker 2: to as well. And we've also brought back some of 11 00:00:43,925 --> 00:00:48,485 Speaker 2: our most popular and most riveting stories from No Filter, 12 00:00:48,765 --> 00:00:50,925 Speaker 2: which is what you're going to hear today. We first 13 00:00:50,965 --> 00:00:54,085 Speaker 2: brought you the story of Stuart Diver in twenty twenty one, 14 00:00:54,325 --> 00:00:56,605 Speaker 2: and as you're going to hear, Stuart was the sole 15 00:00:56,845 --> 00:01:01,325 Speaker 2: survivor of the nineteen ninety seven Threadbow Landslide. His name 16 00:01:01,325 --> 00:01:04,685 Speaker 2: that will be familiar to so many people. It was 17 00:01:05,165 --> 00:01:08,925 Speaker 2: absolutely iconic, the image of him being pulled from that 18 00:01:09,005 --> 00:01:13,205 Speaker 2: rubble after many days when everybody thought that there was 19 00:01:13,245 --> 00:01:17,005 Speaker 2: no hope, and indeed under that rubble he was lying 20 00:01:17,205 --> 00:01:20,645 Speaker 2: next to his wife Sally, and the experience and the 21 00:01:20,685 --> 00:01:22,925 Speaker 2: losses that he would go on to survive in the 22 00:01:23,005 --> 00:01:28,565 Speaker 2: years to come, were not over because unbelievably, Stuart lost 23 00:01:28,565 --> 00:01:31,885 Speaker 2: his second wife as well. I was kind of dreading 24 00:01:31,965 --> 00:01:34,405 Speaker 2: this interview, and I think I said that to Stuart 25 00:01:34,605 --> 00:01:36,485 Speaker 2: because it sounds from what I just told you like 26 00:01:36,565 --> 00:01:40,805 Speaker 2: it would be really sad. But it is actually so enjoyable, 27 00:01:41,365 --> 00:01:44,685 Speaker 2: so funny. Of course, not all of it's funny, but 28 00:01:45,165 --> 00:01:47,205 Speaker 2: it's one of those things that if you are in 29 00:01:47,245 --> 00:01:51,005 Speaker 2: the groups of grief and thinking that you will never 30 00:01:51,725 --> 00:01:55,965 Speaker 2: move past it, or heartbreak or something impossibly difficult to 31 00:01:56,045 --> 00:01:59,645 Speaker 2: cope with. Stuart isn't a remarkable man, and it is 32 00:01:59,765 --> 00:02:03,405 Speaker 2: truly a remarkable story, and I really enjoyed my time 33 00:02:03,405 --> 00:02:05,765 Speaker 2: with him, which is why I wanted to pop this 34 00:02:05,885 --> 00:02:21,765 Speaker 2: in your ears. It was an ordinary day on the 35 00:02:21,805 --> 00:02:25,845 Speaker 2: thirtieth of July nineteen ninety seven in Threadbow. Thousands of 36 00:02:25,845 --> 00:02:28,925 Speaker 2: people from across the country and the world had flocked 37 00:02:28,925 --> 00:02:31,565 Speaker 2: to the ski town to enjoy the snow, along with 38 00:02:31,605 --> 00:02:34,645 Speaker 2: the tight knit community of men and women who worked 39 00:02:34,645 --> 00:02:38,045 Speaker 2: on the ski field as instructors and lift operators and 40 00:02:38,085 --> 00:02:42,725 Speaker 2: in the village in hospitality. But at eleven thirty five 41 00:02:42,765 --> 00:02:49,725 Speaker 2: pm that evening, the earth moved. It literally moved, and 42 00:02:49,845 --> 00:02:52,885 Speaker 2: lives were changed and lost in just a few minutes. 43 00:02:56,285 --> 00:03:00,565 Speaker 2: The Threadbow landslide happened fast. It hit two ski lodgers 44 00:03:00,725 --> 00:03:04,405 Speaker 2: where nineteen people were sleeping. It destroyed the buildings, ripping 45 00:03:04,405 --> 00:03:07,885 Speaker 2: them off their foundations, and plunged all of those people 46 00:03:07,925 --> 00:03:12,285 Speaker 2: inside under tons of debris and concrete. For the first 47 00:03:12,325 --> 00:03:16,085 Speaker 2: two days we were told that there would be no survivors. However, 48 00:03:16,485 --> 00:03:19,445 Speaker 2: on the morning of the third day, sixty six hours 49 00:03:19,485 --> 00:03:23,045 Speaker 2: after he was buried, my guest today was found alive. 50 00:03:23,845 --> 00:03:26,365 Speaker 2: He was the lone survivor of one of the most 51 00:03:26,365 --> 00:03:28,565 Speaker 2: famous tragedies in Australia's history. 52 00:03:29,205 --> 00:03:31,325 Speaker 3: We live from Threadbow. This is a special one hour 53 00:03:31,445 --> 00:03:34,525 Speaker 3: edition of ten News. I'm Sandra Sully News. Just a hand. 54 00:03:34,565 --> 00:03:37,285 Speaker 3: I'm hoping you can see these pictures. They are wonderful pictures. 55 00:03:37,325 --> 00:03:41,005 Speaker 3: Philart Diver has been freed. His stretcher is being moved 56 00:03:41,125 --> 00:03:45,885 Speaker 3: slowly up incrementally towards the ambulance. Sixty to seventy emergency 57 00:03:45,925 --> 00:03:50,365 Speaker 3: workers are waiting there anxiously to receive him and of 58 00:03:50,405 --> 00:03:51,605 Speaker 3: course assess his condition. 59 00:03:59,325 --> 00:03:59,965 Speaker 1: From Momma Maya. 60 00:04:00,045 --> 00:04:02,645 Speaker 2: You're listening to No Filter, the podcast where people from 61 00:04:02,645 --> 00:04:05,885 Speaker 2: all walks of life, tell their stories very candidly and 62 00:04:05,925 --> 00:04:09,245 Speaker 2: aren't afraid to be vulnerable. My name is Mia Friedman. 63 00:04:10,605 --> 00:04:13,045 Speaker 2: Stuart Diver has been through more in his fifty one 64 00:04:13,125 --> 00:04:16,365 Speaker 2: years than most people go through in their entire lives. 65 00:04:16,845 --> 00:04:19,005 Speaker 2: When he was just twenty seven, he was the sole 66 00:04:19,085 --> 00:04:22,365 Speaker 2: survivor of a landslide which took the life of his wife, Sally, 67 00:04:23,245 --> 00:04:27,045 Speaker 2: and in twenty fifteen, Stuart lost his second wife, Rosanna. 68 00:04:27,645 --> 00:04:30,085 Speaker 2: Their daughter was just four years old at the time. 69 00:04:31,205 --> 00:04:34,525 Speaker 2: You might say that Stuart has every right to be angry, 70 00:04:34,765 --> 00:04:38,365 Speaker 2: to feel sorry for himself, to be pissed off at 71 00:04:38,365 --> 00:04:42,245 Speaker 2: the world. But here's the thing, he's not. He's really, 72 00:04:42,285 --> 00:04:45,805 Speaker 2: really not because on that day in nineteen ninety seven 73 00:04:46,125 --> 00:04:49,645 Speaker 2: and on that day in twenty fifteen, when the world 74 00:04:49,765 --> 00:04:55,765 Speaker 2: dealt him two unthinkable blows, Stuart decided to live, not 75 00:04:55,885 --> 00:04:59,445 Speaker 2: just to survive, but to live in a big way, 76 00:05:00,085 --> 00:05:03,285 Speaker 2: to be happy, to laugh because when things get tough. 77 00:05:03,765 --> 00:05:06,845 Speaker 2: Stuart asked himself two questions, what is it that I'm 78 00:05:06,845 --> 00:05:10,965 Speaker 2: actually living for and what is it that's driving me forward? 79 00:05:11,485 --> 00:05:14,085 Speaker 2: And his reasons are pretty amazing, I mean looking forward 80 00:05:14,125 --> 00:05:17,165 Speaker 2: to this, so I actually, like everyone else over the 81 00:05:17,165 --> 00:05:19,925 Speaker 2: age of about thirty. I remember exactly where I was 82 00:05:20,125 --> 00:05:23,245 Speaker 2: when Stuart Diver was pulled blinking from the rubble on 83 00:05:23,325 --> 00:05:27,125 Speaker 2: live TV. I can still picture his wife, Sally's face 84 00:05:27,365 --> 00:05:30,165 Speaker 2: from all the media coverage. It went on for days 85 00:05:30,245 --> 00:05:33,485 Speaker 2: and weeks and months. It was one of those tragedies 86 00:05:33,645 --> 00:05:37,765 Speaker 2: that the whole country felt, which is why, to be honest, 87 00:05:38,045 --> 00:05:42,245 Speaker 2: I've been reluctant to interview Stuart until now, especially after 88 00:05:42,325 --> 00:05:46,285 Speaker 2: learning that his second wife had passed away. But then 89 00:05:46,325 --> 00:05:50,805 Speaker 2: I realized that Stuart's story and his resilience could help 90 00:05:50,885 --> 00:05:55,405 Speaker 2: so many people, especially right now and his bloody great company. 91 00:05:56,285 --> 00:05:58,885 Speaker 2: Stuart Diver is the host of a new podcast called 92 00:05:58,885 --> 00:06:02,125 Speaker 2: The Elements. He's the single dad of twelve year old Alessier, 93 00:06:02,885 --> 00:06:06,245 Speaker 2: and he's the general manager of Threadbow Resorts, and that's 94 00:06:06,285 --> 00:06:09,165 Speaker 2: where he joins me from right now. I wanted to 95 00:06:09,165 --> 00:06:11,805 Speaker 2: ask you prepare for an interview like this, Like when 96 00:06:11,845 --> 00:06:14,525 Speaker 2: you sat down, you said, I'm looking forward to this. 97 00:06:14,845 --> 00:06:18,365 Speaker 2: And I said to someone today, I'm interviewing Stewart Diver 98 00:06:18,445 --> 00:06:21,205 Speaker 2: today and I'm really looking forward to it. And they said, 99 00:06:21,405 --> 00:06:25,045 Speaker 2: are you being sarcastic? And I went, no, I'm actually 100 00:06:25,085 --> 00:06:29,725 Speaker 2: really excited. My feelings aside, How do you prepare knowing 101 00:06:30,085 --> 00:06:31,365 Speaker 2: the stuff we're going to talk about? 102 00:06:31,685 --> 00:06:33,925 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think the easiest way for me 103 00:06:34,125 --> 00:06:37,045 Speaker 4: is the only reason that I do and talk about 104 00:06:37,045 --> 00:06:39,845 Speaker 4: my experiences and what I've been through is to try 105 00:06:39,885 --> 00:06:43,245 Speaker 4: and share what I've learned from those experiences and then 106 00:06:43,445 --> 00:06:48,485 Speaker 4: hopefully through that others can get a positive outcome or 107 00:06:48,605 --> 00:06:52,565 Speaker 4: I can influence, you know, and change something in someone's life. 108 00:06:52,765 --> 00:06:55,365 Speaker 4: So I come in to a podcast or to an 109 00:06:55,405 --> 00:06:59,685 Speaker 4: interview thinking what is the outcome going to be and 110 00:06:59,845 --> 00:07:04,085 Speaker 4: is it worth me then delving into those emotional depths 111 00:07:04,125 --> 00:07:06,405 Speaker 4: and sharing my story, and if it is, then it's 112 00:07:06,445 --> 00:07:09,605 Speaker 4: actually really really easy to do because you know, my 113 00:07:09,725 --> 00:07:12,725 Speaker 4: life is about trying to find the positives and trying 114 00:07:12,765 --> 00:07:14,845 Speaker 4: to live in that way, and I see this is 115 00:07:14,925 --> 00:07:17,645 Speaker 4: just an addition to doing that and being able to share. 116 00:07:17,405 --> 00:07:21,565 Speaker 2: That with others, that idea of purpose, finding purpose, because 117 00:07:21,565 --> 00:07:24,365 Speaker 2: otherwise it becomes grief point, doesn't it just someone rummaging 118 00:07:24,405 --> 00:07:25,525 Speaker 2: around in your trauma? 119 00:07:25,765 --> 00:07:28,445 Speaker 4: Yeah? Absolutely, I mean I base a lot of what 120 00:07:28,485 --> 00:07:32,325 Speaker 4: I've done on my belief system and what is it 121 00:07:32,645 --> 00:07:35,485 Speaker 4: that I'm actually living for? So, you know, how do 122 00:07:35,525 --> 00:07:38,965 Speaker 4: you survive those traumas in your life, big or small. 123 00:07:39,445 --> 00:07:42,325 Speaker 4: What is it that's driving me forward? And I think 124 00:07:42,365 --> 00:07:46,165 Speaker 4: that's really key because you know, you can go and 125 00:07:46,245 --> 00:07:48,165 Speaker 4: wallow in that grief and you're allowed to be in 126 00:07:48,205 --> 00:07:50,845 Speaker 4: that place, like you're allowed to feel sorry for yourself. 127 00:07:50,885 --> 00:07:52,605 Speaker 4: There's no problem with that at all. But if you 128 00:07:52,845 --> 00:07:54,845 Speaker 4: spend all of your time there, then you're not going 129 00:07:54,885 --> 00:07:57,125 Speaker 4: to have a very positive life. So I think it 130 00:07:57,205 --> 00:08:01,085 Speaker 4: really is working out what is it that I'm living for? 131 00:08:01,285 --> 00:08:04,045 Speaker 4: And you know, for me, it's the fact that I 132 00:08:04,085 --> 00:08:07,045 Speaker 4: love people. I love sharing life with people, I love 133 00:08:07,125 --> 00:08:10,965 Speaker 4: caring for people, and that's what drives me forward. So 134 00:08:11,125 --> 00:08:16,005 Speaker 4: whether it was living for that or living for those people, 135 00:08:16,205 --> 00:08:17,765 Speaker 4: that's what gets me out of bed every day. 136 00:08:18,125 --> 00:08:20,845 Speaker 2: Will you like that before the landslide? 137 00:08:21,125 --> 00:08:24,125 Speaker 4: I definitely think that I was. I mean, my mum 138 00:08:24,165 --> 00:08:27,045 Speaker 4: and dad definitely instilled that in me from a very 139 00:08:27,085 --> 00:08:29,245 Speaker 4: young age, you know, that caring spirit. We did a 140 00:08:29,245 --> 00:08:31,565 Speaker 4: lot of charity work, you know, as kids. There was 141 00:08:31,565 --> 00:08:33,485 Speaker 4: a lot of things that I didn't like doing, getting 142 00:08:33,485 --> 00:08:37,765 Speaker 4: forced into. But I think that whole attitude of community 143 00:08:37,965 --> 00:08:40,965 Speaker 4: and looking after each other and pulling together, you know, 144 00:08:41,125 --> 00:08:43,725 Speaker 4: was definitely instilled in me. I think It's definitely been 145 00:08:43,805 --> 00:08:47,525 Speaker 4: refined because of what I've gone through, obviously definitely focused 146 00:08:47,645 --> 00:08:51,645 Speaker 4: me more on what is truly important and probably given 147 00:08:51,685 --> 00:08:54,005 Speaker 4: me a lot more clarity around that. And I think 148 00:08:54,005 --> 00:08:55,645 Speaker 4: that that's probably the difference. But you know, a lot 149 00:08:55,645 --> 00:08:57,605 Speaker 4: of people say, oh, you know, did the landslide change 150 00:08:57,645 --> 00:08:59,845 Speaker 4: you know? You know? And I think you can speak 151 00:08:59,885 --> 00:09:02,445 Speaker 4: to a lot of people who knew me before and afterwards, 152 00:09:02,445 --> 00:09:06,325 Speaker 4: I'm the same person. I've definitely, hopefully because that's a 153 00:09:06,365 --> 00:09:08,965 Speaker 4: long time ago, hopefully I've matured and some of my 154 00:09:09,085 --> 00:09:12,885 Speaker 4: points you may have changed and developed, etc. But yeah, overall, 155 00:09:12,965 --> 00:09:15,405 Speaker 4: I think deep down I'm exactly the same person that 156 00:09:15,445 --> 00:09:16,445 Speaker 4: I've always been. 157 00:09:16,765 --> 00:09:20,085 Speaker 2: You're the same person, but people no doubt see you 158 00:09:20,125 --> 00:09:25,245 Speaker 2: differently since the landslide and everything that's happened to you 159 00:09:25,285 --> 00:09:28,645 Speaker 2: than they did before. So I was going to ask you. 160 00:09:28,685 --> 00:09:32,845 Speaker 2: When people are famous for whatever reasons, when someone meets them, 161 00:09:32,965 --> 00:09:36,485 Speaker 2: sometimes the onus is on that famous person to make 162 00:09:36,485 --> 00:09:40,645 Speaker 2: them feel less intimidated or at ease. I had someone 163 00:09:40,645 --> 00:09:43,045 Speaker 2: who said to me recently, after they lost someone, people 164 00:09:43,085 --> 00:09:45,045 Speaker 2: would do this thing where they'd tilt their head and go, 165 00:09:45,885 --> 00:09:48,925 Speaker 2: how are you you know, and there'd be a lot 166 00:09:48,925 --> 00:09:50,765 Speaker 2: of subtext in that head tilt. 167 00:09:52,125 --> 00:09:54,965 Speaker 4: Do you find that, Yes, absolutely, a lot of it 168 00:09:55,045 --> 00:10:00,045 Speaker 4: is looking after the other person, And that's what can 169 00:10:00,125 --> 00:10:04,045 Speaker 4: become really really difficult, because you know, you're sharing your story, 170 00:10:04,045 --> 00:10:06,965 Speaker 4: you're sharing some of the most emotional things that happened 171 00:10:07,005 --> 00:10:09,925 Speaker 4: in your life, like the landslide, fairly traumatic a point 172 00:10:09,965 --> 00:10:14,005 Speaker 4: in my life. Yet sometimes people come to you even 173 00:10:14,165 --> 00:10:16,565 Speaker 4: you know, I look at you know, when Rosanna died 174 00:10:16,645 --> 00:10:19,605 Speaker 4: the same thing. People come because they want to be 175 00:10:19,685 --> 00:10:22,805 Speaker 4: made to feel more comfortable about them. So you spend 176 00:10:22,845 --> 00:10:26,965 Speaker 4: half the time actually making them feel comfortable about the 177 00:10:27,045 --> 00:10:30,165 Speaker 4: death of someone or whatever it is, rather than them 178 00:10:30,365 --> 00:10:33,445 Speaker 4: because if you're okay, then they can be okay. I mean, 179 00:10:33,445 --> 00:10:35,165 Speaker 4: it has some benefits, you know. And I always say 180 00:10:35,165 --> 00:10:38,805 Speaker 4: for me, you know, my notoriety or you know, hate 181 00:10:38,805 --> 00:10:41,205 Speaker 4: the word celebrity, but that it's always been such a 182 00:10:41,245 --> 00:10:43,765 Speaker 4: positive experience because people are coming out to me going wow, 183 00:10:43,845 --> 00:10:45,565 Speaker 4: you know, it's amazing, and you're still here and you 184 00:10:45,645 --> 00:10:47,765 Speaker 4: love this place and you know, so it's not like 185 00:10:47,765 --> 00:10:50,485 Speaker 4: I'm a criminal, So the experience is actually really positive. 186 00:10:50,765 --> 00:10:53,245 Speaker 4: But in doing that, it puts a lot of pressure 187 00:10:53,285 --> 00:10:56,885 Speaker 4: on me to make sure that I'm in a mental 188 00:10:56,965 --> 00:10:59,565 Speaker 4: space that I'm able to share that and do that, 189 00:10:59,605 --> 00:11:01,325 Speaker 4: and I don't just snap back at people and tell 190 00:11:01,365 --> 00:11:03,405 Speaker 4: them to go away and do whatever, which is what 191 00:11:03,445 --> 00:11:05,885 Speaker 4: you see happen a lot when you get pushed, you know, 192 00:11:05,925 --> 00:11:07,805 Speaker 4: you turn the other way. So there was a huge 193 00:11:07,805 --> 00:11:10,805 Speaker 4: impetus early on, not that that was the main focus 194 00:11:10,805 --> 00:11:12,725 Speaker 4: for me, but definitely for me to be able to 195 00:11:12,845 --> 00:11:15,045 Speaker 4: work on my mental health so that I was able 196 00:11:15,085 --> 00:11:17,845 Speaker 4: to talk about everything that I'd been through and share 197 00:11:17,885 --> 00:11:20,685 Speaker 4: it in a way that was positive, because you know, 198 00:11:20,845 --> 00:11:23,285 Speaker 4: the reality is if I can do that to someone 199 00:11:23,325 --> 00:11:25,685 Speaker 4: who's walking down the street in Threadbow, you know, and 200 00:11:25,725 --> 00:11:28,205 Speaker 4: it's five minutes of my life and it's a hug, 201 00:11:28,285 --> 00:11:31,405 Speaker 4: and you know, that can be in some ways, not 202 00:11:31,445 --> 00:11:34,965 Speaker 4: to put say that anything special, but that can be 203 00:11:35,005 --> 00:11:38,325 Speaker 4: a really really positive experience for that person. And that's 204 00:11:38,325 --> 00:11:40,125 Speaker 4: how I look at it. So yeah, I never look 205 00:11:40,165 --> 00:11:40,885 Speaker 4: at it as a threat. 206 00:11:41,045 --> 00:11:43,325 Speaker 2: It's quite a heavy load to carry though, because I 207 00:11:43,325 --> 00:11:45,845 Speaker 2: was thinking that other people who involved in traumatic events, 208 00:11:45,845 --> 00:11:50,725 Speaker 2: including many of the people that you interviewed for your podcast, 209 00:11:50,765 --> 00:11:55,165 Speaker 2: the elements. If someone's in a car accident, other people 210 00:11:55,165 --> 00:11:57,325 Speaker 2: aren't going to want to tell them where they were 211 00:11:58,405 --> 00:12:01,485 Speaker 2: when that car accident happened, but I imagined that people 212 00:12:01,605 --> 00:12:04,525 Speaker 2: always want to tell you where they were when you 213 00:12:04,565 --> 00:12:06,365 Speaker 2: were pulled out of that building. 214 00:12:06,605 --> 00:12:10,645 Speaker 4: You nailed the number one opening. Yeah, when they approach 215 00:12:10,645 --> 00:12:13,365 Speaker 4: and it is amazing. I mean, the Threadbao Landslide was 216 00:12:13,405 --> 00:12:16,125 Speaker 4: really that first big Threadbow media event. It was the 217 00:12:16,165 --> 00:12:19,125 Speaker 4: first time satellite dishes were in an area. It was 218 00:12:19,165 --> 00:12:21,405 Speaker 4: just new technology, but they were here. It was live, 219 00:12:21,485 --> 00:12:23,885 Speaker 4: it was getting broadcasts. I mean, stuff that's done every 220 00:12:23,885 --> 00:12:26,565 Speaker 4: single minute of the day now in today's society. But 221 00:12:26,645 --> 00:12:28,725 Speaker 4: then it was big. And I always say, you know 222 00:12:28,805 --> 00:12:32,405 Speaker 4: that my face. People say, you know, twenty four years on, 223 00:12:32,565 --> 00:12:35,365 Speaker 4: wouldn't people forget your face? But I say no, because 224 00:12:35,605 --> 00:12:39,165 Speaker 4: what it is, it's the emotional attachment that's linked to 225 00:12:39,245 --> 00:12:41,485 Speaker 4: my face. So it's going to be there forever. I 226 00:12:41,565 --> 00:12:44,365 Speaker 4: have two choices to make, and that is either you 227 00:12:44,525 --> 00:12:46,765 Speaker 4: deny that that's happening, you put your head down, you 228 00:12:46,765 --> 00:12:48,445 Speaker 4: put on the dark glasses, and you go away, or 229 00:12:48,485 --> 00:12:51,165 Speaker 4: you use it for something positive. So that story of 230 00:12:51,205 --> 00:12:55,005 Speaker 4: where that person was on that day usually leads them 231 00:12:55,045 --> 00:12:58,205 Speaker 4: to them talking about something else, and it'll be maybe 232 00:12:58,245 --> 00:13:00,685 Speaker 4: their daughter died or their daughter had breast cancer. Or 233 00:13:00,725 --> 00:13:03,605 Speaker 4: whatever it is. And for me that's the most amazing 234 00:13:03,645 --> 00:13:06,365 Speaker 4: part of it, because my psychologist always says to me, Stuart, 235 00:13:06,365 --> 00:13:08,485 Speaker 4: don't become a pop psychologist, So I'm not there offering 236 00:13:08,525 --> 00:13:11,645 Speaker 4: people advice on the street. But it's a great way 237 00:13:11,685 --> 00:13:13,445 Speaker 4: of being able to share and say, you know, one 238 00:13:13,485 --> 00:13:15,165 Speaker 4: of the big things that we need to do more 239 00:13:15,205 --> 00:13:17,885 Speaker 4: as a society is we need to share that stuff 240 00:13:17,925 --> 00:13:19,885 Speaker 4: with each other because the more we do it, the 241 00:13:19,925 --> 00:13:22,845 Speaker 4: more we realize it normalizes it and it makes those 242 00:13:22,925 --> 00:13:26,485 Speaker 4: experiences seem as not as traumatic as they really should be. 243 00:13:26,725 --> 00:13:29,085 Speaker 4: I realized, Wow, it's a lot of other people in 244 00:13:29,125 --> 00:13:33,285 Speaker 4: the world going through unbelievable amounts of pain and suffering 245 00:13:33,325 --> 00:13:36,405 Speaker 4: and trauma every single day. So what is it we 246 00:13:36,445 --> 00:13:39,285 Speaker 4: can do as a collective to help each other rather 247 00:13:39,365 --> 00:13:42,445 Speaker 4: than me just focusing on myself, which we all do 248 00:13:42,765 --> 00:13:44,725 Speaker 4: as an individual. And I just need to look after 249 00:13:44,765 --> 00:13:47,045 Speaker 4: my mental health and I'll be fine. But the real 250 00:13:47,085 --> 00:13:49,805 Speaker 4: good test for me is that working is that I 251 00:13:49,845 --> 00:13:53,365 Speaker 4: can talk about it to you today. That shows me 252 00:13:53,445 --> 00:13:55,325 Speaker 4: that all of that work that I've done on my 253 00:13:55,405 --> 00:13:58,725 Speaker 4: mental health with my psychologist over twenty four years has 254 00:13:58,805 --> 00:13:59,285 Speaker 4: paid off. 255 00:13:59,725 --> 00:14:02,325 Speaker 2: Three enormous things happened to you in a very short 256 00:14:02,365 --> 00:14:05,325 Speaker 2: space of time, a matter of hours. Twenty four years ago, 257 00:14:06,005 --> 00:14:08,485 Speaker 2: you were involved in a major trauma and nearly lost 258 00:14:08,485 --> 00:14:09,085 Speaker 2: your life. 259 00:14:10,285 --> 00:14:11,605 Speaker 1: You lost your. 260 00:14:11,485 --> 00:14:15,805 Speaker 2: Wife, and you became the most famous man in Australia. 261 00:14:16,965 --> 00:14:20,605 Speaker 2: All of those three things happened and no doubt inextricably linked, 262 00:14:20,645 --> 00:14:24,485 Speaker 2: but they're three very different things to process. How do 263 00:14:24,525 --> 00:14:26,725 Speaker 2: you go about unpicking them from each other? 264 00:14:27,245 --> 00:14:29,645 Speaker 4: It took a lot of work with my psychologist in 265 00:14:29,725 --> 00:14:33,325 Speaker 4: the months and years afterwards. Is the reality of it, 266 00:14:33,405 --> 00:14:38,965 Speaker 4: because there's bits there that are me surviving and coming 267 00:14:39,005 --> 00:14:43,045 Speaker 4: out and that celebrity that was forced upon me or 268 00:14:43,085 --> 00:14:46,285 Speaker 4: thrust upon me in some ways was a hugely positive experience. 269 00:14:46,285 --> 00:14:47,925 Speaker 4: In other ways there were negativities that went with that 270 00:14:48,045 --> 00:14:52,605 Speaker 4: as well. Obviously my life in the initial stage is 271 00:14:52,685 --> 00:14:55,685 Speaker 4: me surviving, a huge positive but then to be followed 272 00:14:55,765 --> 00:14:59,565 Speaker 4: up by sixty five hours of horrific drama, and then 273 00:14:59,645 --> 00:15:03,725 Speaker 4: couple that, as you say, with Sally dying. We basically 274 00:15:03,925 --> 00:15:07,925 Speaker 4: had to separate all of that out and work out okay, 275 00:15:08,005 --> 00:15:11,525 Speaker 4: So within all of those points, there's some huge positives 276 00:15:11,525 --> 00:15:14,365 Speaker 4: and some huge negatives, So we had to deal with 277 00:15:14,405 --> 00:15:15,965 Speaker 4: what are the negatives? And how are we going to 278 00:15:16,005 --> 00:15:18,605 Speaker 4: deal with those so they don't just keep resurfacing through 279 00:15:18,645 --> 00:15:22,925 Speaker 4: my life and being reliving that traumatic experience. And that's 280 00:15:22,925 --> 00:15:25,565 Speaker 4: not to say the traumatic experience goes away. It stays 281 00:15:25,605 --> 00:15:27,565 Speaker 4: with you for life, you know. That is the greatest 282 00:15:27,605 --> 00:15:30,645 Speaker 4: myth ever. Anyone who goes through any sort of trauma, 283 00:15:30,685 --> 00:15:32,445 Speaker 4: it generally you can do as much work as you want. 284 00:15:32,525 --> 00:15:34,605 Speaker 4: It stays with you for life. So for me, it 285 00:15:34,725 --> 00:15:39,365 Speaker 4: was not only separating those experiences, but then working out 286 00:15:39,805 --> 00:15:41,845 Speaker 4: what was it that I was going to keep and 287 00:15:42,085 --> 00:15:44,765 Speaker 4: use as the positives to go forward. So, you know, 288 00:15:44,885 --> 00:15:47,005 Speaker 4: me living that's a pretty easy one because I got 289 00:15:47,005 --> 00:15:49,725 Speaker 4: to live and share my life with everyone else. Coming 290 00:15:49,765 --> 00:15:52,885 Speaker 4: out and being a minor celebrity and doing that well, 291 00:15:53,005 --> 00:15:55,605 Speaker 4: really that, you know, in some ways is just operational stuff. 292 00:15:55,645 --> 00:15:58,325 Speaker 4: You get a good media manager around you, and life 293 00:15:58,405 --> 00:16:01,125 Speaker 4: goes on. So the biggest one in there was obviously 294 00:16:01,165 --> 00:16:04,605 Speaker 4: the death of Sally, you know, and that's horrific and 295 00:16:04,645 --> 00:16:07,165 Speaker 4: I sort of can look back on it now having 296 00:16:07,485 --> 00:16:11,125 Speaker 4: lived through the death of Rosa when she died of 297 00:16:11,165 --> 00:16:15,165 Speaker 4: breast cancer. Two very very different experiences, you know, same outcome, 298 00:16:15,485 --> 00:16:18,685 Speaker 4: but two very different experiences, And I now realize why. 299 00:16:19,045 --> 00:16:22,285 Speaker 4: You know, Sally's death was so traumatic, it's that no goodbyes. 300 00:16:22,685 --> 00:16:24,485 Speaker 4: Really you look at that and you go, there are 301 00:16:24,525 --> 00:16:26,925 Speaker 4: no real positives you can drag out of that. You know, 302 00:16:27,005 --> 00:16:29,325 Speaker 4: you're twenty seven years old, the love of your life 303 00:16:29,805 --> 00:16:31,965 Speaker 4: dies in two and a half minutes next to you. 304 00:16:32,085 --> 00:16:33,885 Speaker 4: Where do you get the positive? But that's where I 305 00:16:33,925 --> 00:16:36,565 Speaker 4: come back to, you know, where we started talking initially, 306 00:16:36,645 --> 00:16:40,445 Speaker 4: What is it that I'm living for? In that situation there, 307 00:16:41,125 --> 00:16:44,445 Speaker 4: I tried to save the life of the person I 308 00:16:44,485 --> 00:16:46,605 Speaker 4: love the most in the world. I tried to care 309 00:16:47,125 --> 00:16:49,125 Speaker 4: for the person I loved the most in the world. 310 00:16:49,165 --> 00:16:51,285 Speaker 4: I was unable to do it. You know, I tried 311 00:16:51,285 --> 00:16:54,045 Speaker 4: to stop a drowning. She drowned, and that was it 312 00:16:54,765 --> 00:16:58,125 Speaker 4: hugely horrific. But when I look back at that, in 313 00:16:58,165 --> 00:17:02,205 Speaker 4: the most stressful time of my life, what I did 314 00:17:02,405 --> 00:17:06,085 Speaker 4: was I tried to take care of the person that 315 00:17:06,125 --> 00:17:08,405 Speaker 4: I loved and cared for the most in the world. 316 00:17:09,125 --> 00:17:13,405 Speaker 4: So my fundamental belief came to the fore. So when 317 00:17:13,445 --> 00:17:15,485 Speaker 4: I look at that now, I look at my life 318 00:17:15,485 --> 00:17:18,565 Speaker 4: and I say, that was really devastating. But I look 319 00:17:18,605 --> 00:17:21,645 Speaker 4: at Sally and I go, wow, you know, would she 320 00:17:21,805 --> 00:17:24,885 Speaker 4: want me to still be at that spot thinking that 321 00:17:24,965 --> 00:17:27,485 Speaker 4: I failed in doing that, or would she want me 322 00:17:27,645 --> 00:17:30,885 Speaker 4: to be going on to live a life focusing on 323 00:17:31,005 --> 00:17:33,765 Speaker 4: what I believe in, focusing on my values and using 324 00:17:33,805 --> 00:17:36,765 Speaker 4: that to drive me forward. And that's what I believe 325 00:17:36,925 --> 00:17:39,205 Speaker 4: she would want me to do. People could say her 326 00:17:39,205 --> 00:17:42,885 Speaker 4: life was wasted, but I look at it and say, yeah, 327 00:17:42,925 --> 00:17:46,125 Speaker 4: her life was definitely cut short, but there is a 328 00:17:46,245 --> 00:17:50,245 Speaker 4: real duty on me to then live my life to 329 00:17:50,325 --> 00:17:53,885 Speaker 4: the fullest in the most positive way, in memory of 330 00:17:53,965 --> 00:17:56,365 Speaker 4: her and what a beautiful person she was and all 331 00:17:56,405 --> 00:17:59,565 Speaker 4: of those amazing beliefs and traits that she had, And 332 00:17:59,605 --> 00:18:02,205 Speaker 4: that's what drives me forward. And that's happened again. You 333 00:18:02,205 --> 00:18:06,125 Speaker 4: know with Rosannah, the same process happens hugely traumatic, but 334 00:18:06,765 --> 00:18:09,245 Speaker 4: you know, and sometimes it can sound a bit facetious, 335 00:18:09,365 --> 00:18:12,685 Speaker 4: but it's not. You know, you can get positives out 336 00:18:12,685 --> 00:18:15,165 Speaker 4: of these huge tragedies, and that's the only way I 337 00:18:15,205 --> 00:18:16,045 Speaker 4: see to go forward. 338 00:18:16,285 --> 00:18:19,605 Speaker 2: Post Traumatic growth is the term for that, isn't it. 339 00:18:19,645 --> 00:18:22,765 Speaker 2: A lot of people aren't familiar with that term. Most 340 00:18:22,765 --> 00:18:29,005 Speaker 2: people understand post traumatic stress disorder, but post traumatic growth 341 00:18:29,245 --> 00:18:32,445 Speaker 2: is when I remember a friend who lost a baby 342 00:18:32,525 --> 00:18:34,885 Speaker 2: said that she felt that the light in her life 343 00:18:34,925 --> 00:18:37,605 Speaker 2: was turned up by the loss of that baby, not 344 00:18:37,845 --> 00:18:39,605 Speaker 2: extinguished and not turned down. 345 00:18:40,245 --> 00:18:42,605 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's that thing. Do you go nuts and go wow, 346 00:18:42,685 --> 00:18:44,845 Speaker 5: you know I'm out? Yeah, every day is going to 347 00:18:44,885 --> 00:18:47,445 Speaker 5: be my last. You know, you can try that, but 348 00:18:47,805 --> 00:18:49,605 Speaker 5: that doesn't last very long. You can do that for 349 00:18:49,805 --> 00:18:52,245 Speaker 5: a couple of months and you can pretend, but the 350 00:18:52,325 --> 00:18:53,365 Speaker 5: reality is your. 351 00:18:53,205 --> 00:18:57,005 Speaker 4: Life just goes back to normal. And I always said that, 352 00:18:57,005 --> 00:18:59,125 Speaker 4: you know, my whole aim of my life has been 353 00:18:59,285 --> 00:19:01,645 Speaker 4: to get my life back to normal. Now what the 354 00:19:01,725 --> 00:19:04,245 Speaker 4: normal is is it's a new normal and it's changed. 355 00:19:04,525 --> 00:19:06,685 Speaker 4: But a big part of that is making sure that 356 00:19:06,725 --> 00:19:10,605 Speaker 4: you're comfortable with the past. Growth is about that. You 357 00:19:10,765 --> 00:19:13,165 Speaker 4: have to be comfortable with what's gone on, you know, 358 00:19:13,285 --> 00:19:17,165 Speaker 4: the feelings of guilt, all of those such negative emotions. 359 00:19:17,485 --> 00:19:19,245 Speaker 4: You need to have dealt with all of that so 360 00:19:19,325 --> 00:19:22,885 Speaker 4: that you can grow. And the really big thing is 361 00:19:22,925 --> 00:19:26,685 Speaker 4: to not feel guilty about that. You know, society sometimes 362 00:19:26,925 --> 00:19:29,125 Speaker 4: has a lot of these norms that go around that 363 00:19:29,205 --> 00:19:31,565 Speaker 4: put pressure on us to stay in that spot. Oh 364 00:19:31,605 --> 00:19:33,605 Speaker 4: you haven't quite grieved enough. You can't go on and 365 00:19:33,765 --> 00:19:36,165 Speaker 4: have a new relationship. What's he thinking? That's terrible? You know, 366 00:19:36,325 --> 00:19:39,125 Speaker 4: all of those sort of things you have to say, actually, 367 00:19:39,165 --> 00:19:42,165 Speaker 4: this is me. If I dealt with that grief in 368 00:19:42,245 --> 00:19:45,925 Speaker 4: one week, probably highly unusual, But if I did, that's me. 369 00:19:46,445 --> 00:19:47,885 Speaker 4: And if I felt that I've dealt with that, that 370 00:19:47,965 --> 00:19:49,925 Speaker 4: I'm allowed to move on with my life. If that 371 00:19:49,965 --> 00:19:53,045 Speaker 4: grief also takes five years, or if it's with me forever, 372 00:19:53,365 --> 00:19:56,525 Speaker 4: which is generally what happens, then that's okay too. And 373 00:19:56,565 --> 00:19:58,565 Speaker 4: I think that, you know, we need to give ourselves 374 00:19:58,725 --> 00:20:01,005 Speaker 4: when you go through those sort of traumas, that space 375 00:20:01,445 --> 00:20:03,005 Speaker 4: to be able to deal with it. But yeah, you 376 00:20:03,045 --> 00:20:05,445 Speaker 4: have to be able to really, really comfortable with your 377 00:20:05,485 --> 00:20:08,245 Speaker 4: past to be able to go forward. Otherwise you just 378 00:20:08,325 --> 00:20:10,965 Speaker 4: keep delving back and it's just becomes a circle round 379 00:20:10,965 --> 00:20:12,645 Speaker 4: and round and around, and you never get to go forward. 380 00:20:12,925 --> 00:20:13,845 Speaker 2: What was Sally like? 381 00:20:14,285 --> 00:20:16,765 Speaker 4: She was amazing. I mean it's hard now. A lot 382 00:20:16,805 --> 00:20:19,085 Speaker 4: of the memories have gone. You know, it's a long time. 383 00:20:19,165 --> 00:20:21,405 Speaker 4: Twenty four years is a long time. But you know, 384 00:20:21,485 --> 00:20:23,925 Speaker 4: the bits that I remember of Sally is that she 385 00:20:24,085 --> 00:20:27,205 Speaker 4: was well liked by everyone around her because she was 386 00:20:27,205 --> 00:20:30,885 Speaker 4: always bright and bubbly, and she was happy and she 387 00:20:30,925 --> 00:20:36,325 Speaker 4: had that carefree attitude. Yet she had this really deep determination. 388 00:20:36,765 --> 00:20:38,845 Speaker 4: She knew where she was going and she knew what 389 00:20:38,965 --> 00:20:41,525 Speaker 4: she was doing. It was sort of like, don't cross me. 390 00:20:42,165 --> 00:20:45,005 Speaker 4: I'll be nice and if you're nice, and we'll keep going. 391 00:20:45,045 --> 00:20:47,325 Speaker 4: But she really did have that drive, and that's what 392 00:20:47,445 --> 00:20:50,125 Speaker 4: I've thrived on. When she was alive and I was 393 00:20:50,165 --> 00:20:52,685 Speaker 4: with her, you know, we were great duo together in 394 00:20:52,765 --> 00:20:54,725 Speaker 4: all of the things that we experienced, and we drove 395 00:20:54,765 --> 00:20:58,565 Speaker 4: each other. But I've used that going forward to say, 396 00:20:58,685 --> 00:21:01,925 Speaker 4: you know what, would Sally actually accept that behavior? Probably not? 397 00:21:02,085 --> 00:21:04,005 Speaker 4: So you know what, am I accepting it before? Let's 398 00:21:04,645 --> 00:21:07,565 Speaker 4: use some of her traits to make my life a 399 00:21:07,565 --> 00:21:08,725 Speaker 4: more positive place to be. 400 00:21:09,525 --> 00:21:14,445 Speaker 2: To be pretty resilient and secure to date a widower. 401 00:21:14,845 --> 00:21:17,445 Speaker 4: I think you do. Because the great thing is I 402 00:21:17,485 --> 00:21:20,845 Speaker 4: can always refer back and this has happened. So Rosanna 403 00:21:21,245 --> 00:21:23,685 Speaker 4: used to say, so, what would Sally have done this situation? 404 00:21:23,765 --> 00:21:26,165 Speaker 4: I said, ah, well, obviously Sally would have just let 405 00:21:26,205 --> 00:21:28,725 Speaker 4: me do whatever I wanted because that was the sort 406 00:21:28,765 --> 00:21:30,845 Speaker 4: of person she was. Maybe you should model your life 407 00:21:30,845 --> 00:21:31,165 Speaker 4: on her. 408 00:21:31,445 --> 00:21:35,005 Speaker 1: No, it's that sort of bit you can't compare, can you. 409 00:21:35,045 --> 00:21:37,485 Speaker 4: No, that's right, but as a humans we do. So 410 00:21:37,525 --> 00:21:39,885 Speaker 4: you're looking and going, oh was she more beautiful than me, 411 00:21:40,045 --> 00:21:42,765 Speaker 4: or did Stuart's friends like her more than me? You know? 412 00:21:42,805 --> 00:21:44,645 Speaker 4: And then on top of that, then you've got the 413 00:21:44,725 --> 00:21:47,285 Speaker 4: family members, so you've got Sally's mum and dad, You've 414 00:21:47,325 --> 00:21:50,725 Speaker 4: got all of these other complications that go on. And 415 00:21:50,765 --> 00:21:53,365 Speaker 4: when you look at it like that, yeah, I'm amazed 416 00:21:53,405 --> 00:21:55,325 Speaker 4: and you I take my hat off to Rosanna for 417 00:21:55,525 --> 00:21:57,605 Speaker 4: taking on the challenge and going out with me, because 418 00:21:57,885 --> 00:22:01,165 Speaker 4: there was an enormous amount of baggage that came with me, 419 00:22:01,885 --> 00:22:05,165 Speaker 4: not necessarily caused by me, but caused by who I 420 00:22:05,325 --> 00:22:07,485 Speaker 4: was and what was around me, and whether that was 421 00:22:07,525 --> 00:22:11,405 Speaker 4: the attention of media, friends, all of these things. There's 422 00:22:11,445 --> 00:22:13,125 Speaker 4: a lot of pressures that come from every and she 423 00:22:13,165 --> 00:22:15,085 Speaker 4: had to put up with a huge amount in her 424 00:22:15,165 --> 00:22:18,525 Speaker 4: life because of the fact of the landslide, and more 425 00:22:18,565 --> 00:22:21,485 Speaker 4: so probably in a lot of ways because Sally had 426 00:22:21,485 --> 00:22:22,165 Speaker 4: been my partner. 427 00:22:22,405 --> 00:22:26,405 Speaker 2: Because it's very different to the idea of someone's ex 428 00:22:26,485 --> 00:22:29,685 Speaker 2: isn't it when it's a relationship that didn't end by 429 00:22:29,725 --> 00:22:34,205 Speaker 2: your choosing? And in the most traumatic way. Was there 430 00:22:34,245 --> 00:22:38,365 Speaker 2: any competition? Was there any feelings of rivalry jealousy, even 431 00:22:38,365 --> 00:22:40,245 Speaker 2: though they're not logical or rational. 432 00:22:40,525 --> 00:22:42,245 Speaker 4: I don't think she ever did. I mean, not that 433 00:22:42,405 --> 00:22:45,045 Speaker 4: we really spoke about. In her I mean, Rosanna was 434 00:22:45,725 --> 00:22:47,405 Speaker 4: in a lot of ways very similar to Sally. She's 435 00:22:47,605 --> 00:22:51,205 Speaker 4: very very strong, probably more so, and she knew where 436 00:22:51,245 --> 00:22:53,325 Speaker 4: she was going and what was happening in her life, 437 00:22:53,405 --> 00:22:56,605 Speaker 4: and probably if she hadn't gone out with me and 438 00:22:56,645 --> 00:22:58,405 Speaker 4: married me, should have been just happy on her own 439 00:22:58,405 --> 00:23:00,765 Speaker 4: and continued on her life. So she was very much 440 00:23:00,805 --> 00:23:03,085 Speaker 4: her own independent person, and I think that helped her 441 00:23:03,085 --> 00:23:05,725 Speaker 4: a lot. So I don't think there was doubt there 442 00:23:05,765 --> 00:23:08,525 Speaker 4: in her mind. I think the doubt probably came in 443 00:23:08,965 --> 00:23:13,045 Speaker 4: through some of those people around who weren't so positive 444 00:23:13,045 --> 00:23:16,565 Speaker 4: about that relationship, and that negativity crept in, and then 445 00:23:16,605 --> 00:23:19,005 Speaker 4: you start doubting yourself, and then you start feeling more pressure, 446 00:23:19,245 --> 00:23:21,085 Speaker 4: and then you sort of imagine that. And I think 447 00:23:21,085 --> 00:23:24,485 Speaker 4: that that was probably a bigger struggle for her within 448 00:23:24,525 --> 00:23:27,445 Speaker 4: our relationship and definitely put a lot of pressure on 449 00:23:27,525 --> 00:23:28,685 Speaker 4: her that shouldn't have been there. 450 00:23:28,965 --> 00:23:30,645 Speaker 2: If this isn't too personal, I was going to ask 451 00:23:30,725 --> 00:23:34,125 Speaker 2: about your relationship with Sale's parents. The three of you 452 00:23:34,165 --> 00:23:37,765 Speaker 2: have lost the person you're closest to. What happens after 453 00:23:37,845 --> 00:23:40,445 Speaker 2: that as your life continues, But hers doesn't. 454 00:23:40,685 --> 00:23:44,085 Speaker 4: Sally's parents were separated at that time, and I had 455 00:23:44,165 --> 00:23:46,045 Speaker 4: a great relationship with both of them. I have a 456 00:23:46,045 --> 00:23:50,325 Speaker 4: great relationship, but very different relationships currently Sally's dad, I'm 457 00:23:50,405 --> 00:23:52,725 Speaker 4: very close to her. He treats me like his own son. 458 00:23:52,885 --> 00:23:55,325 Speaker 4: So he basically said, you're my son, then, you're my 459 00:23:55,365 --> 00:23:59,085 Speaker 4: son now. And he's been hugely supportive of everything that 460 00:23:59,125 --> 00:24:02,685 Speaker 4: I've been through relationships, and the same thing when Rosanna 461 00:24:02,925 --> 00:24:05,885 Speaker 4: and I started going out, he was one hundred percent 462 00:24:05,885 --> 00:24:08,965 Speaker 4: there to support her and said you are now my daughter, 463 00:24:09,325 --> 00:24:11,325 Speaker 4: which was an amazing way of doing it. You know, 464 00:24:11,605 --> 00:24:16,045 Speaker 4: he's a hugely intelligent guy. He processes things really, really well, 465 00:24:16,285 --> 00:24:18,725 Speaker 4: and that was his way of dealing with it. And 466 00:24:18,845 --> 00:24:21,565 Speaker 4: I have great respect for him and he's been a 467 00:24:21,565 --> 00:24:24,285 Speaker 4: great mentor and a real support for me over the 468 00:24:24,685 --> 00:24:26,325 Speaker 4: last twenty four years and even prior to that, when 469 00:24:26,365 --> 00:24:28,885 Speaker 4: I was married to Sally. With Sally's mum, it was 470 00:24:28,965 --> 00:24:31,765 Speaker 4: people deal with things differently, and I think mothers, you know, 471 00:24:31,805 --> 00:24:34,965 Speaker 4: from that female perspective, deal with things differently. So you know, 472 00:24:35,045 --> 00:24:38,125 Speaker 4: we've given each other a fair bitter space over the years. 473 00:24:38,165 --> 00:24:39,845 Speaker 4: You know, we're still keep in contact. You know, we 474 00:24:39,925 --> 00:24:43,645 Speaker 4: text each other you know, we call occasionally, but Sale's 475 00:24:43,685 --> 00:24:47,405 Speaker 4: mum definitely struggled with Sally's death, and I understand that, 476 00:24:47,525 --> 00:24:51,205 Speaker 4: and I understand all of those processes. But the better 477 00:24:51,285 --> 00:24:53,365 Speaker 4: thing for both of us was just to give ourselves 478 00:24:53,445 --> 00:24:55,405 Speaker 4: a bit of space so that could work through that, 479 00:24:55,725 --> 00:24:57,685 Speaker 4: and sometimes that can take a very long time. 480 00:24:59,485 --> 00:25:01,925 Speaker 2: I'm mea Friedman and you're listening to No Filter with 481 00:25:02,045 --> 00:25:08,445 Speaker 2: Stuart Diver. When you got back from your honeymoon and 482 00:25:08,685 --> 00:25:13,005 Speaker 2: Rosanna discovered that she had breast cancer, did a part 483 00:25:13,045 --> 00:25:18,045 Speaker 2: of you think this isn't fair about yourself, Like, haven't 484 00:25:18,045 --> 00:25:18,885 Speaker 2: I been through enough? 485 00:25:20,525 --> 00:25:22,285 Speaker 4: There were two things that happened. One is I went 486 00:25:22,365 --> 00:25:25,165 Speaker 4: straight into survival mode again, so you know, just click 487 00:25:25,205 --> 00:25:26,605 Speaker 4: into that mode. What can we do? I've got to 488 00:25:26,605 --> 00:25:28,325 Speaker 4: make her live. I've got to this is the person 489 00:25:28,365 --> 00:25:30,525 Speaker 4: I care and love for the mostly well, I've got 490 00:25:30,565 --> 00:25:32,885 Speaker 4: to know just shooting off in all those directions, which 491 00:25:32,885 --> 00:25:34,805 Speaker 4: is what you do. I mean, anyone who goes through 492 00:25:34,805 --> 00:25:36,965 Speaker 4: a cancer experience knows, oh, we've got to get an operation, 493 00:25:37,005 --> 00:25:38,725 Speaker 4: and we've got to get scans, and then chemo a 494 00:25:38,845 --> 00:25:40,965 Speaker 4: lot to do, and it just goes on and on 495 00:25:41,005 --> 00:25:43,405 Speaker 4: and on. So that in some ways was a good thing. 496 00:25:43,645 --> 00:25:45,685 Speaker 4: It gave me that focus and I was able to 497 00:25:45,725 --> 00:25:48,845 Speaker 4: for that next twelve months to two years just focus 498 00:25:49,005 --> 00:25:52,405 Speaker 4: on Rosanna living. That was it, and that in some 499 00:25:52,445 --> 00:25:55,165 Speaker 4: ways helps you deal with things emotionally as well. The 500 00:25:55,165 --> 00:25:57,805 Speaker 4: feeling sorry for myself bit always comes in. I'm going 501 00:25:57,805 --> 00:26:00,245 Speaker 4: to feel that today. I feel sorry for good because 502 00:26:00,325 --> 00:26:02,325 Speaker 4: you're allowed to let some rubbish that goes on. 503 00:26:02,445 --> 00:26:04,525 Speaker 2: Glad you say that, and it's not rubbish like it's 504 00:26:04,685 --> 00:26:06,245 Speaker 2: kind of like if you were going to say no. 505 00:26:06,405 --> 00:26:09,245 Speaker 2: It's all about everything. Like, you have every right to 506 00:26:09,445 --> 00:26:10,245 Speaker 2: be pissed. 507 00:26:09,965 --> 00:26:13,285 Speaker 4: Off, absolutely, and the key is it's what you do 508 00:26:13,365 --> 00:26:15,925 Speaker 4: with that. So if that becomes a negative in your 509 00:26:15,965 --> 00:26:18,565 Speaker 4: life and you're sitting in the corner and you've got 510 00:26:18,645 --> 00:26:21,725 Speaker 4: the earphones on and you're not socializing and you're not 511 00:26:21,805 --> 00:26:25,245 Speaker 4: moving on or doing anything, then that's an issue. Yeah. 512 00:26:25,285 --> 00:26:27,565 Speaker 4: My psychologist Alway says, feel sorry for yourself as much 513 00:26:27,605 --> 00:26:29,325 Speaker 4: and as often as you want. That's no dramas. Just 514 00:26:29,325 --> 00:26:31,325 Speaker 4: don't do it all the time, you know, make sure 515 00:26:31,325 --> 00:26:32,965 Speaker 4: that you're getting out of that. And there'll be days 516 00:26:33,005 --> 00:26:36,245 Speaker 4: there where I will even now where I'll turn around 517 00:26:36,285 --> 00:26:39,245 Speaker 4: and go, this is really shit. I just don't want 518 00:26:39,285 --> 00:26:41,565 Speaker 4: to continue. This is garbage. What am I doing here? 519 00:26:41,765 --> 00:26:44,285 Speaker 4: I am pretending, you know, I'm pretending for everyone that 520 00:26:44,325 --> 00:26:46,285 Speaker 4: I'm happy all the time and life's amazing, and I 521 00:26:46,365 --> 00:26:48,125 Speaker 4: just don't want to do it, so I'll go into 522 00:26:48,125 --> 00:26:51,365 Speaker 4: those dark spaces. But luckily, you know, I've done enough 523 00:26:51,405 --> 00:26:53,445 Speaker 4: work on myself that I've got the tools to be 524 00:26:53,445 --> 00:26:55,485 Speaker 4: able to pull myself out. And I think that's the 525 00:26:55,605 --> 00:26:58,565 Speaker 4: key with Rosanna. You know, those first couple of years 526 00:26:58,605 --> 00:27:01,205 Speaker 4: were highly emotional, but we probably weren't dealing with a 527 00:27:01,205 --> 00:27:04,565 Speaker 4: lot of that emotional side because you're just especially living remotely, 528 00:27:04,565 --> 00:27:06,725 Speaker 4: you're driving two and a half hours to hospital, You're 529 00:27:06,765 --> 00:27:09,605 Speaker 4: doing all of that sort of stuff. It consumes your life. 530 00:27:09,765 --> 00:27:13,965 Speaker 4: So it probably wasn't until about three years after Rosanna's 531 00:27:14,005 --> 00:27:17,605 Speaker 4: initial diagnosis when things are looking good and you know 532 00:27:17,725 --> 00:27:20,365 Speaker 4: she was in remission and you're never quite in remission, 533 00:27:20,405 --> 00:27:22,965 Speaker 4: but yeah, the cancer pretty well gone away, and so 534 00:27:23,005 --> 00:27:25,365 Speaker 4: we're looking then at planning our future, and so you're 535 00:27:25,365 --> 00:27:27,485 Speaker 4: starting to talk about babies and do we want to 536 00:27:27,525 --> 00:27:29,285 Speaker 4: have babies or can Rosanna have a baby? I know, 537 00:27:29,365 --> 00:27:31,445 Speaker 4: probably not due to all the treatment she's been through, 538 00:27:31,805 --> 00:27:36,085 Speaker 4: all of those complexities, and that's when really we both 539 00:27:36,125 --> 00:27:39,045 Speaker 4: went and started seeing my psychologist. We reached a point 540 00:27:39,045 --> 00:27:41,245 Speaker 4: there where you just can't you know. And I've always 541 00:27:41,245 --> 00:27:44,605 Speaker 4: said that psychologists are great mind's given me awesome tools 542 00:27:44,765 --> 00:27:47,405 Speaker 4: to get through things. But I don't ever want to 543 00:27:47,445 --> 00:27:50,445 Speaker 4: be the person like in some ways the US model 544 00:27:50,485 --> 00:27:52,485 Speaker 4: where you have a therapist for yourself, a therapist for 545 00:27:52,525 --> 00:27:54,205 Speaker 4: your dog, a therapist for your cat, and you use 546 00:27:54,285 --> 00:27:56,325 Speaker 4: them all day, every day, and you end up relying 547 00:27:56,325 --> 00:27:59,205 Speaker 4: them all the time. I think there's individual responsibility to 548 00:27:59,245 --> 00:28:01,005 Speaker 4: make sure that you're doing the hard work and you're 549 00:28:01,045 --> 00:28:03,685 Speaker 4: going forward. So yeah, there were periods of five or 550 00:28:03,725 --> 00:28:05,565 Speaker 4: six years there where I hadn't seen my psychologists a 551 00:28:05,565 --> 00:28:08,645 Speaker 4: talk because everything was going well, but obviously Rosanna's diagnosis 552 00:28:09,125 --> 00:28:11,965 Speaker 4: and then obviously all of the other stuff that comes 553 00:28:12,005 --> 00:28:16,325 Speaker 4: with that as you go through that whole survival experience. 554 00:28:17,005 --> 00:28:18,885 Speaker 4: We went back and I saw him again and in 555 00:28:18,925 --> 00:28:21,885 Speaker 4: the same thing, gave us some great tools and things 556 00:28:21,925 --> 00:28:25,725 Speaker 4: that helped us work out what was our future, where 557 00:28:25,805 --> 00:28:28,965 Speaker 4: were we going to go? And then obviously then as 558 00:28:29,085 --> 00:28:31,485 Speaker 4: Rosanna the cancer came back and all the secondary cancers 559 00:28:31,565 --> 00:28:34,285 Speaker 4: came back and Rosanna got sicker, then that became even 560 00:28:34,285 --> 00:28:37,125 Speaker 4: more prominent again, and by then Unlessia had been born, 561 00:28:37,165 --> 00:28:38,805 Speaker 4: not to jump too far in front, but unless you 562 00:28:38,845 --> 00:28:42,085 Speaker 4: had been born, and then Alessia only being four years old. 563 00:28:42,365 --> 00:28:44,885 Speaker 4: But we involved her in all those sessions as well, 564 00:28:44,885 --> 00:28:48,245 Speaker 4: and then it became a big pre grieving experiment in 565 00:28:48,285 --> 00:28:51,645 Speaker 4: some ways for us, but able to do what you 566 00:28:51,685 --> 00:28:54,325 Speaker 4: would say is do death the right way? Having experienced 567 00:28:54,365 --> 00:28:57,325 Speaker 4: it the very traumatic way with Sally, to try and 568 00:28:57,405 --> 00:28:59,725 Speaker 4: what did we learn from that? And how am I 569 00:28:59,765 --> 00:29:03,605 Speaker 4: going to make sure that Rosanna's death, although it's going 570 00:29:03,645 --> 00:29:07,445 Speaker 4: to be hugely traumatic for both Alessia and myself, how 571 00:29:07,485 --> 00:29:09,365 Speaker 4: do we do that as right as we can? And 572 00:29:09,605 --> 00:29:12,405 Speaker 4: then that became the focus that thread goes all the 573 00:29:12,405 --> 00:29:14,765 Speaker 4: way through all of those experiences in my. 574 00:29:14,725 --> 00:29:17,805 Speaker 2: Life, her diagnosis and particularly when the cancer returned. To 575 00:29:17,845 --> 00:29:20,645 Speaker 2: say that would be truering for you would seem like 576 00:29:20,645 --> 00:29:25,645 Speaker 2: an understatement. So how did the dynamics shift between her 577 00:29:25,765 --> 00:29:29,005 Speaker 2: looking after you and being painfully aware of what was 578 00:29:29,045 --> 00:29:31,445 Speaker 2: going to be afflicted on you for a second time, 579 00:29:32,365 --> 00:29:36,005 Speaker 2: and you looking after her not just the physical side, 580 00:29:36,045 --> 00:29:42,205 Speaker 2: but emotionally dealing with her devastation at leaving you and Alessia, it. 581 00:29:42,165 --> 00:29:46,125 Speaker 4: Just becomes an amazing team. So it's just going back 582 00:29:46,165 --> 00:29:50,005 Speaker 4: and forwards and trying to look at what each person needs. 583 00:29:50,005 --> 00:29:53,045 Speaker 4: So what physically you need and what I physically needed 584 00:29:53,045 --> 00:29:55,365 Speaker 4: to survive. And it's a huge amount of things that 585 00:29:55,405 --> 00:29:58,565 Speaker 4: go in there, you know. And it's simple things like, Okay, 586 00:29:58,565 --> 00:29:59,885 Speaker 4: we've got to get to the doctor, We've got to 587 00:29:59,885 --> 00:30:03,725 Speaker 4: get this test, through to more physically intimate things like 588 00:30:03,805 --> 00:30:06,005 Speaker 4: your sex life and what's going on there and all 589 00:30:06,005 --> 00:30:08,485 Speaker 4: of those difficult all the way through to what is 590 00:30:08,525 --> 00:30:11,845 Speaker 4: actually going to happen to a lessier when I die? 591 00:30:12,205 --> 00:30:14,245 Speaker 4: Do you have the skill set to be able to 592 00:30:14,405 --> 00:30:17,765 Speaker 4: do this? And all of those things. There's so many 593 00:30:17,765 --> 00:30:20,045 Speaker 4: other factors that go in there. We just had to 594 00:30:20,085 --> 00:30:23,165 Speaker 4: work on them as a team together and just make 595 00:30:23,245 --> 00:30:26,845 Speaker 4: sure that if our focus was on a Lessier and 596 00:30:27,605 --> 00:30:31,645 Speaker 4: her having the best life after her mumma died, then 597 00:30:31,805 --> 00:30:35,205 Speaker 4: that's what united us. So everything we did was basically 598 00:30:35,245 --> 00:30:38,485 Speaker 4: focused on her. So because Rosanna knew that I was 599 00:30:38,525 --> 00:30:40,685 Speaker 4: going to be fine, I could cook, I can clean, 600 00:30:40,765 --> 00:30:42,205 Speaker 4: I could do all of that sort of stuff, all 601 00:30:42,205 --> 00:30:44,685 Speaker 4: of those simple things. I can get a lessier to 602 00:30:44,685 --> 00:30:47,205 Speaker 4: school daycare. She wasn't at school at that time, so 603 00:30:47,485 --> 00:30:50,005 Speaker 4: I had a job there was no real issues in there, 604 00:30:50,045 --> 00:30:51,245 Speaker 4: so we just put all that to the side. We 605 00:30:51,285 --> 00:30:53,085 Speaker 4: don't have to worry about that. What do we need 606 00:30:53,125 --> 00:30:54,685 Speaker 4: to worry about. We're going to worry about the fact 607 00:30:54,725 --> 00:30:56,165 Speaker 4: that we've got a four and a half year old 608 00:30:56,245 --> 00:30:58,245 Speaker 4: here who's going to grow up without a mum. 609 00:30:58,485 --> 00:30:58,645 Speaker 2: You know. 610 00:30:58,845 --> 00:31:02,645 Speaker 4: One of the concerns that I spoke about before we'd 611 00:31:02,685 --> 00:31:05,485 Speaker 4: even had a lessier was this exact thing happening. So 612 00:31:05,485 --> 00:31:08,445 Speaker 4: we're already spoken about this years before with the psychologist 613 00:31:08,525 --> 00:31:12,285 Speaker 4: because I said to Rosanna, my aim, because I'm selfish, 614 00:31:12,445 --> 00:31:15,045 Speaker 4: is I want you to live if having a baby 615 00:31:15,165 --> 00:31:17,125 Speaker 4: puts a strain on your body or does anything and 616 00:31:17,165 --> 00:31:19,045 Speaker 4: you die. It's not the fact that I'm going to 617 00:31:19,045 --> 00:31:20,845 Speaker 4: be left as a single dad. I had no fear 618 00:31:20,845 --> 00:31:23,485 Speaker 4: of that. It was the fact of Alessia wasn't going 619 00:31:23,565 --> 00:31:25,925 Speaker 4: to have a mum, and then where were we going 620 00:31:25,965 --> 00:31:28,405 Speaker 4: to go with that? So I think we'd already had 621 00:31:28,445 --> 00:31:31,005 Speaker 4: all these discussions, so we already knew that Alessia was 622 00:31:31,005 --> 00:31:32,725 Speaker 4: going to be the key, and I think it was 623 00:31:32,725 --> 00:31:36,405 Speaker 4: for her. I mean, Rosanna did some amazing things unbeknownst 624 00:31:36,405 --> 00:31:38,925 Speaker 4: to me. It was Alessia's eleventh birthday, on Friday, and 625 00:31:39,285 --> 00:31:41,685 Speaker 4: I didn't realize Rosannah left a whole lot of boxes. 626 00:31:41,725 --> 00:31:44,405 Speaker 4: I opened them up a year after Rosannah had died, 627 00:31:44,445 --> 00:31:47,365 Speaker 4: and in it was a birthday card written for Alessia 628 00:31:47,485 --> 00:31:50,525 Speaker 4: for every year until she's eighteen. And they are just 629 00:31:50,605 --> 00:31:52,965 Speaker 4: the most amazing cards. She didn't tell me she was 630 00:31:53,005 --> 00:31:55,525 Speaker 4: doing this. She put this away. I knew she'd put 631 00:31:55,565 --> 00:31:57,685 Speaker 4: away clothes. She loved clothes. She loved the Prada and 632 00:31:57,685 --> 00:32:00,605 Speaker 4: she loved her Gucci bags, and so she'd put away 633 00:32:00,645 --> 00:32:03,365 Speaker 4: all her favorite pieces so that when Alessia gets to 634 00:32:03,405 --> 00:32:05,445 Speaker 4: an age, she can get them out. And it's about 635 00:32:05,485 --> 00:32:09,085 Speaker 4: locking away those beautiful memories, whether they're in physical items 636 00:32:09,085 --> 00:32:12,685 Speaker 4: like or whatever they are. She did this amazing recipe 637 00:32:12,685 --> 00:32:16,445 Speaker 4: book of all her favorite recipes, so Alessia because her 638 00:32:16,525 --> 00:32:18,605 Speaker 4: Unlessa used to cook together all the time, and so 639 00:32:18,725 --> 00:32:20,605 Speaker 4: for me, now that's the thing that Alessi and I do, 640 00:32:20,645 --> 00:32:22,685 Speaker 4: and we get that cookbook out and we make some 641 00:32:22,725 --> 00:32:25,565 Speaker 4: of her mom's favorite recipes and so just you know, 642 00:32:25,645 --> 00:32:28,245 Speaker 4: those positive memories out of something that can be so negative. 643 00:32:28,605 --> 00:32:30,805 Speaker 4: So Rosanna was doing all this stuff while I was 644 00:32:30,845 --> 00:32:33,045 Speaker 4: at work. Yeah, and she was very, very sick at 645 00:32:33,085 --> 00:32:34,925 Speaker 4: that point in time. And she knew she was going 646 00:32:34,965 --> 00:32:37,085 Speaker 4: to die. And then yea, I looked on my phone. 647 00:32:37,125 --> 00:32:40,445 Speaker 4: I only found a video probably eighteen months after she died, 648 00:32:40,525 --> 00:32:43,445 Speaker 4: which was like a goodbye video. Alessia and I are 649 00:32:43,445 --> 00:32:47,005 Speaker 4: playing in the parking camera and she'd basically being diagnosed 650 00:32:47,365 --> 00:32:50,045 Speaker 4: with a brain tumor that day and it was not 651 00:32:50,085 --> 00:32:52,485 Speaker 4: going to be good. And she's writing the crying doing 652 00:32:52,565 --> 00:32:56,365 Speaker 4: this video to the two of us playing in the park, saying, 653 00:32:56,405 --> 00:32:58,125 Speaker 4: you know this is your mom. I know your dad's 654 00:32:58,125 --> 00:32:59,965 Speaker 4: an amazing guy. He's going to look after you so much. 655 00:33:00,005 --> 00:33:02,045 Speaker 4: I'm just like I'm going. And she never told me. 656 00:33:02,085 --> 00:33:03,925 Speaker 4: She didn't say, here, have a look at this. We've 657 00:33:03,925 --> 00:33:05,805 Speaker 4: done this, and we never sat down and did any 658 00:33:05,845 --> 00:33:07,965 Speaker 4: of that. We didn't do the big photo shoot and 659 00:33:08,005 --> 00:33:10,885 Speaker 4: the pre death video and all of that sort of stuff. 660 00:33:10,925 --> 00:33:14,405 Speaker 4: It just came from her innate ability to understand what 661 00:33:14,565 --> 00:33:17,565 Speaker 4: I would need after she was gone. And those things 662 00:33:17,565 --> 00:33:20,445 Speaker 4: are so important to me in being able to hold 663 00:33:21,085 --> 00:33:24,045 Speaker 4: the positive memories of her life and to make sure 664 00:33:24,085 --> 00:33:28,285 Speaker 4: that that's what I'm instilling into Alessier, you know. And Alessia, 665 00:33:28,445 --> 00:33:30,485 Speaker 4: she comes to me her biggest fear is I've forgotten 666 00:33:30,485 --> 00:33:32,685 Speaker 4: my mum. I don't have any memories of mummy. And 667 00:33:32,685 --> 00:33:36,645 Speaker 4: I'm saying, well, okay, what's one thing that you do remember, 668 00:33:36,685 --> 00:33:38,165 Speaker 4: because that's all we need to hang on to, and 669 00:33:38,205 --> 00:33:41,165 Speaker 4: she goes her hug. They used to lie on the 670 00:33:41,165 --> 00:33:44,285 Speaker 4: couch for hours because Alessia was young, and Rosanna from 671 00:33:44,325 --> 00:33:46,045 Speaker 4: the age of zero to four and a half, she 672 00:33:46,085 --> 00:33:49,005 Speaker 4: spent every day except one with Alessia, so it was 673 00:33:49,045 --> 00:33:51,565 Speaker 4: pretty cool for Alesia to have her mum around that much. 674 00:33:51,725 --> 00:33:54,005 Speaker 4: But she remembers the hugs and I'm going, well, that's beautiful. 675 00:33:54,045 --> 00:33:56,085 Speaker 4: So what do the hugs mean? That means that mummy 676 00:33:56,085 --> 00:33:58,565 Speaker 4: love me. That's all we need. We don't need anything else. 677 00:33:58,605 --> 00:34:00,685 Speaker 4: You know, we can discuss in more depth as she 678 00:34:00,685 --> 00:34:03,765 Speaker 4: gets older, any of those stories, and it's those sort 679 00:34:03,765 --> 00:34:06,605 Speaker 4: of things a key. It doesn't always go perfectly all 680 00:34:06,645 --> 00:34:10,285 Speaker 4: the time, where there's always massive lows is all of 681 00:34:10,325 --> 00:34:12,965 Speaker 4: those things. It's a rollercoaster for her as well, But 682 00:34:13,085 --> 00:34:17,085 Speaker 4: at least the over riding sentiment for her and for 683 00:34:17,245 --> 00:34:20,005 Speaker 4: I is that the memories of her mum and what 684 00:34:20,125 --> 00:34:22,765 Speaker 4: comes back are positive and that's how we're trying to 685 00:34:22,805 --> 00:34:24,325 Speaker 4: live our lives. And we don't always get it right, 686 00:34:24,405 --> 00:34:26,125 Speaker 4: but you know, we're given out our best shot. 687 00:34:26,325 --> 00:34:29,445 Speaker 2: Rosanna herself was proof that you could learn to love 688 00:34:29,485 --> 00:34:34,045 Speaker 2: after losing the love of your life again, did you 689 00:34:34,045 --> 00:34:38,245 Speaker 2: guys ever talk about you dating meeting someone else after 690 00:34:38,325 --> 00:34:39,045 Speaker 2: she was gone? 691 00:34:39,365 --> 00:34:40,325 Speaker 4: Yeah, we had a list. 692 00:34:40,885 --> 00:34:41,965 Speaker 1: You had a list. 693 00:34:42,205 --> 00:34:43,645 Speaker 2: Who was on the list to you? 694 00:34:44,045 --> 00:34:46,205 Speaker 4: Well, it was like there was someone called Mia. I 695 00:34:46,205 --> 00:34:47,165 Speaker 4: can't remember. 696 00:34:48,645 --> 00:34:48,765 Speaker 2: Me. 697 00:34:50,245 --> 00:34:51,605 Speaker 4: That list is gone. You worry. 698 00:34:51,685 --> 00:34:53,525 Speaker 2: Rosanna sent us all from the grave. 699 00:34:54,525 --> 00:34:58,165 Speaker 4: She was doing it probably in some ways because she 700 00:34:59,165 --> 00:35:04,165 Speaker 4: wanted to choose who was going to be Alessier's mum. 701 00:35:04,205 --> 00:35:06,765 Speaker 4: So she wanted to be sure that I wasn't just 702 00:35:06,765 --> 00:35:08,965 Speaker 4: going to go out and go out with a nineteen 703 00:35:09,045 --> 00:35:11,685 Speaker 4: year old and yeah, waere we go, you know, unless 704 00:35:11,685 --> 00:35:13,485 Speaker 4: you would be left off to the side. So in 705 00:35:13,525 --> 00:35:16,805 Speaker 4: some ways from her, her list was a little bit selfish, 706 00:35:16,965 --> 00:35:19,205 Speaker 4: and it was a very unrealistic list. It was never 707 00:35:19,205 --> 00:35:21,405 Speaker 4: happening because two of the people were married and it 708 00:35:21,485 --> 00:35:23,525 Speaker 4: was not gonna happen anyway. But in a lot of 709 00:35:23,525 --> 00:35:26,965 Speaker 4: ways comfort No, that's right. But what it did was 710 00:35:27,005 --> 00:35:31,045 Speaker 4: it bought that discussion forward and from my side, and 711 00:35:31,245 --> 00:35:35,205 Speaker 4: you know, this is something very personal, but from my side. 712 00:35:35,845 --> 00:35:38,725 Speaker 4: When you know that your wife is going to die 713 00:35:38,965 --> 00:35:41,765 Speaker 4: and you're going to be on your own. You need 714 00:35:41,805 --> 00:35:45,285 Speaker 4: some beacons, you need something to say it's worth living for. 715 00:35:45,805 --> 00:35:48,965 Speaker 4: And if I think that I was never going to 716 00:35:49,125 --> 00:35:52,805 Speaker 4: have a loving partner again and this was the end 717 00:35:52,845 --> 00:35:56,445 Speaker 4: of two wives and that's it. You're done, that's a 718 00:35:56,525 --> 00:35:59,965 Speaker 4: horrible place to be. So in my mind, I would 719 00:36:00,005 --> 00:36:04,085 Speaker 4: also then fantasize, and it sounds you're a nice bloke, 720 00:36:04,125 --> 00:36:07,845 Speaker 4: you know your wife's sick, but I would fantasize about, 721 00:36:07,845 --> 00:36:10,485 Speaker 4: oh maybe I go that person or that could be 722 00:36:10,845 --> 00:36:15,485 Speaker 4: just to give some relief in your brain. The person surviving, 723 00:36:15,845 --> 00:36:19,045 Speaker 4: you know, through cancer, it's a horrific experience for them. 724 00:36:19,405 --> 00:36:21,365 Speaker 4: And I do a lot of work with Breastcancer Network 725 00:36:21,405 --> 00:36:23,805 Speaker 4: Australia and a lot of the cares that I speak to, 726 00:36:23,845 --> 00:36:27,525 Speaker 4: whether they're males or females, it's also horrific for them 727 00:36:27,565 --> 00:36:30,325 Speaker 4: as well. You know, they're going through enormous amounts, so 728 00:36:30,365 --> 00:36:32,925 Speaker 4: you need these little bits of escapism to get away. 729 00:36:32,925 --> 00:36:35,005 Speaker 4: And that was one of them. But we talked openly 730 00:36:35,045 --> 00:36:36,845 Speaker 4: about it and we always got a good laugh out 731 00:36:36,885 --> 00:36:38,845 Speaker 4: of it. Yeah, it was one of those ones, and 732 00:36:38,885 --> 00:36:40,765 Speaker 4: I think it really helped me because it was like 733 00:36:40,885 --> 00:36:44,285 Speaker 4: saying Stuart, You're allowed to get a partner when I'm gone. 734 00:36:44,525 --> 00:36:46,685 Speaker 4: That box has already ticked. There was no guilt, There 735 00:36:46,725 --> 00:36:48,685 Speaker 4: was no you know, when Sally died, there was a 736 00:36:48,685 --> 00:36:51,245 Speaker 4: whole lot more guilt and everything out of oh you 737 00:36:51,245 --> 00:36:53,485 Speaker 4: know what would be going on here? But now I'm 738 00:36:53,525 --> 00:36:55,445 Speaker 4: only twenty seven. She would have wanted me to go 739 00:36:55,485 --> 00:36:57,525 Speaker 4: and meet someone else, wouldn't she have? But you never 740 00:36:57,565 --> 00:37:00,085 Speaker 4: got to ask that question, whereas with Rosanna I was 741 00:37:00,125 --> 00:37:03,245 Speaker 4: able those questions were answered before any of that ever happened. 742 00:37:03,365 --> 00:37:05,845 Speaker 4: And I think that that's, you know, for me, was 743 00:37:05,925 --> 00:37:09,365 Speaker 4: really comforting and made me realize, you know, that I 744 00:37:09,525 --> 00:37:11,845 Speaker 4: be able to love again. He touched on that a 745 00:37:11,845 --> 00:37:14,365 Speaker 4: little bit before. You know, how much love does a 746 00:37:14,445 --> 00:37:17,125 Speaker 4: human have? Do you run out at some point after 747 00:37:17,205 --> 00:37:20,085 Speaker 4: you've been through so much loss and you just think 748 00:37:20,125 --> 00:37:22,645 Speaker 4: I can't roll the dice again? I think it's actually 749 00:37:22,685 --> 00:37:25,725 Speaker 4: the opposite. I think what happens is, you know, I've 750 00:37:25,805 --> 00:37:31,245 Speaker 4: realized what an amazing part of my life having too, loving, 751 00:37:31,365 --> 00:37:35,365 Speaker 4: caring people like Rosanna and Sally in my life was, 752 00:37:35,405 --> 00:37:38,165 Speaker 4: and what they added to my life. So why wouldn't 753 00:37:38,405 --> 00:37:41,205 Speaker 4: that be something that I'd want again in my future? 754 00:37:41,485 --> 00:37:44,685 Speaker 4: Because it just to me. It's not saying that I 755 00:37:44,765 --> 00:37:46,805 Speaker 4: need someone in my life. I can't survive on my own. 756 00:37:46,845 --> 00:37:51,285 Speaker 4: I'm fairly strong, independent individual. But what an amazing thing 757 00:37:51,325 --> 00:37:53,565 Speaker 4: when you meet that person and what it adds to 758 00:37:53,605 --> 00:37:55,805 Speaker 4: your life. And that's where I am probably comes to 759 00:37:55,805 --> 00:37:59,445 Speaker 4: my belief system about loving and caring for your fellow 760 00:38:00,245 --> 00:38:03,325 Speaker 4: people and your community, etc. That you know that love 761 00:38:03,445 --> 00:38:06,845 Speaker 4: is actually boundless, there's a never ending reservoir of it, 762 00:38:07,005 --> 00:38:07,885 Speaker 4: and that's how I feel. 763 00:38:09,325 --> 00:38:13,165 Speaker 2: Sales interviewed you for her book An Ordinary Day. She 764 00:38:13,245 --> 00:38:17,885 Speaker 2: wrote about driving away thinking that guy is a bloody legend. 765 00:38:18,365 --> 00:38:20,245 Speaker 2: Which of my friends can I set him up with? 766 00:38:21,405 --> 00:38:24,245 Speaker 2: And then she thought to herself, hang on a second, 767 00:38:25,325 --> 00:38:28,405 Speaker 2: you know, what are the statistics of losing two wives? 768 00:38:28,445 --> 00:38:31,005 Speaker 2: Does that mean that the next person he meets is 769 00:38:31,085 --> 00:38:36,365 Speaker 2: more or less likely to meet an untimely end? And 770 00:38:36,405 --> 00:38:39,725 Speaker 2: then she went into this very Lee style long explanation 771 00:38:39,805 --> 00:38:42,845 Speaker 2: of the statistics and showing that they were no more 772 00:38:42,925 --> 00:38:44,805 Speaker 2: or less likely than anyone else. 773 00:38:45,245 --> 00:38:48,885 Speaker 4: Yes, lucky, Yeah, I love the way she looked at that. 774 00:38:48,965 --> 00:38:49,325 Speaker 4: It was good. 775 00:38:49,605 --> 00:38:53,645 Speaker 2: Yeah. With her typically data led brain. So I was 776 00:38:53,725 --> 00:38:57,645 Speaker 2: thinking the difference between when you married Rosanna, you were 777 00:38:57,685 --> 00:39:03,245 Speaker 2: Australia's most famous grieving widower. Did it feel like a 778 00:39:03,285 --> 00:39:05,565 Speaker 2: relief to put that down and say this is the 779 00:39:05,645 --> 00:39:06,205 Speaker 2: next chapter? 780 00:39:06,445 --> 00:39:08,205 Speaker 4: Yeah, one d percent. I mean for me, it was 781 00:39:08,245 --> 00:39:10,565 Speaker 4: about getting that normal see back in my life. I 782 00:39:10,565 --> 00:39:12,485 Speaker 4: mean that's what it was. I mean I always wanted 783 00:39:12,525 --> 00:39:15,645 Speaker 4: with Sally we were married, I always wanted to have kids, 784 00:39:15,725 --> 00:39:17,645 Speaker 4: you know, all of that sort of stuff. So with 785 00:39:18,165 --> 00:39:20,965 Speaker 4: Rosanna I was able to recreate that again. You know, 786 00:39:21,085 --> 00:39:24,885 Speaker 4: it was just I mean, obviously unbelievably unfortunate that she 787 00:39:25,005 --> 00:39:28,445 Speaker 4: was diagnosed with breast cancer so early into our marriage, 788 00:39:28,645 --> 00:39:31,725 Speaker 4: because obviously we're planning to have kids right then and there, 789 00:39:31,965 --> 00:39:35,085 Speaker 4: and you know, it didn't happen for another twelve years 790 00:39:35,205 --> 00:39:39,325 Speaker 4: after that, so it was long. But all of those experiences, 791 00:39:39,645 --> 00:39:41,565 Speaker 4: it is amazing. And I do look back at it 792 00:39:41,605 --> 00:39:43,805 Speaker 4: sometimes and think that maybe I'm a little bit crazy, 793 00:39:43,845 --> 00:39:47,765 Speaker 4: But all of those experiences, they didn't detract from the 794 00:39:47,845 --> 00:39:53,285 Speaker 4: fact that how crucially important a loving relationship is in 795 00:39:53,325 --> 00:39:57,565 Speaker 4: your life. And for me, you know, it highlighted that 796 00:39:57,725 --> 00:40:01,245 Speaker 4: despite all the negativity and everything that went on with Rosanna, 797 00:40:01,365 --> 00:40:04,525 Speaker 4: the positives far outweighed that. What she taught me about 798 00:40:04,525 --> 00:40:07,685 Speaker 4: myself and everything that we shared together far outwigh to 799 00:40:07,725 --> 00:40:12,565 Speaker 4: any of that. Now, logically cut short, that's the real tragedy, 800 00:40:12,645 --> 00:40:16,205 Speaker 4: But the rest of it was actually an amazingly positive experience. 801 00:40:16,725 --> 00:40:19,765 Speaker 2: Still, you're not a man who invites pity. You're just 802 00:40:19,805 --> 00:40:23,485 Speaker 2: not someone that I'm inclined to feel very sorry for. You. 803 00:40:23,565 --> 00:40:27,125 Speaker 2: Just don't invite that. There's something about you. How much 804 00:40:27,125 --> 00:40:30,605 Speaker 2: of that is intentional, because pity is not something that's 805 00:40:30,685 --> 00:40:34,205 Speaker 2: nice to feel. People are directing towards you, right, But 806 00:40:34,245 --> 00:40:36,885 Speaker 2: I imagine you had that a lot after the landslide. 807 00:40:37,205 --> 00:40:40,765 Speaker 4: Yeah, oh absolutely. I mean, and everyone can project what 808 00:40:40,765 --> 00:40:43,605 Speaker 4: they're feeling towards you in any way they want. I mean, 809 00:40:43,885 --> 00:40:46,125 Speaker 4: after the landslide, there was a little bit of I 810 00:40:46,165 --> 00:40:48,925 Speaker 4: did want to portray a really positive image. I didn't 811 00:40:48,925 --> 00:40:51,805 Speaker 4: want to be the person crying on sixty minutes, you know, 812 00:40:52,125 --> 00:40:54,405 Speaker 4: getting that pity in, and I made it conscious of 813 00:40:54,445 --> 00:40:56,445 Speaker 4: it not to do that. In two ways that was 814 00:40:56,445 --> 00:41:00,205 Speaker 4: really detrimental. One was it was really really emotionally hard 815 00:41:00,205 --> 00:41:03,645 Speaker 4: to do, so it destroyed me after those interviews. And 816 00:41:04,005 --> 00:41:07,245 Speaker 4: number two, it's like you said, it actually portrayed this 817 00:41:07,365 --> 00:41:10,285 Speaker 4: image of maybe I am a little bit cold, or 818 00:41:10,325 --> 00:41:13,005 Speaker 4: maybe I am a little bit emotionless. Even in some 819 00:41:13,085 --> 00:41:16,285 Speaker 4: of the straightforward ways that I talk about things today, 820 00:41:16,525 --> 00:41:20,485 Speaker 4: you could definitely read that in. But that's how I 821 00:41:20,685 --> 00:41:23,485 Speaker 4: process things. I don't want people feeling sorry for me. 822 00:41:23,805 --> 00:41:25,885 Speaker 4: What I want is I want people to be able 823 00:41:25,965 --> 00:41:27,605 Speaker 4: to look at me and say, here's a guy who's 824 00:41:27,605 --> 00:41:30,005 Speaker 4: gone through something in his life, and look at that 825 00:41:30,285 --> 00:41:33,245 Speaker 4: he's living and enjoying life. That's as simple as that. 826 00:41:33,645 --> 00:41:36,085 Speaker 4: You know, the podcast, the elements that we did, a 827 00:41:36,085 --> 00:41:39,005 Speaker 4: lot of those people very similar experiences. They just happen 828 00:41:39,085 --> 00:41:42,165 Speaker 4: to be people throwing in an unfortunate situation who came 829 00:41:42,205 --> 00:41:44,925 Speaker 4: out the other side. You know, we all have or 830 00:41:44,965 --> 00:41:48,565 Speaker 4: they all had that humbleness to say, I'm no one special. 831 00:41:48,605 --> 00:41:52,285 Speaker 4: I've never felt special. I sit here talking to you today, Maya, 832 00:41:52,365 --> 00:41:54,605 Speaker 4: and I don't feel special. I just feel that I'm 833 00:41:54,645 --> 00:41:57,165 Speaker 4: someone who's been through something unfortunate and happened to come 834 00:41:57,205 --> 00:41:59,685 Speaker 4: out the other end. And I think that's really key. 835 00:42:00,045 --> 00:42:02,965 Speaker 4: The people who think that I am special is the 836 00:42:03,285 --> 00:42:06,445 Speaker 4: media in a lot of ways, and people external who 837 00:42:06,485 --> 00:42:08,565 Speaker 4: perceive that and want to put that on me. That 838 00:42:08,645 --> 00:42:11,045 Speaker 4: can be also used to benefit me and to benefit 839 00:42:11,085 --> 00:42:12,765 Speaker 4: those around me as well. So I'm not saying that 840 00:42:12,765 --> 00:42:15,845 Speaker 4: that's a negative thing, but at the end of the day, yeah, 841 00:42:16,125 --> 00:42:20,525 Speaker 4: in some ways, how I've managed, you know, my public 842 00:42:20,645 --> 00:42:26,285 Speaker 4: persona has definitely had some outcomes that you have not 843 00:42:26,485 --> 00:42:29,725 Speaker 4: been as positive as you would like. Maybe I should 844 00:42:29,725 --> 00:42:31,845 Speaker 4: have cried a bit more on those TV shows, and 845 00:42:31,965 --> 00:42:34,245 Speaker 4: maybe I should have outwardly shown a little bit more 846 00:42:34,245 --> 00:42:37,245 Speaker 4: emotion to show that I'm human. But I thought to myself, 847 00:42:37,285 --> 00:42:40,485 Speaker 4: if I'm going to have fifteen minutes on a major 848 00:42:41,205 --> 00:42:44,685 Speaker 4: television network, then I should be making that worthwhile and 849 00:42:44,725 --> 00:42:46,525 Speaker 4: I should be getting a message across it. You can 850 00:42:46,565 --> 00:42:49,165 Speaker 4: get this is in very very close proximity to the 851 00:42:49,245 --> 00:42:52,165 Speaker 4: end of the landslide, you know, But I'd already made 852 00:42:52,205 --> 00:42:55,285 Speaker 4: that conscious decision to do that. Was it detrimental or whatever? 853 00:42:55,325 --> 00:42:57,765 Speaker 4: I think this positive message still got out there, you know, 854 00:42:57,765 --> 00:42:59,925 Speaker 4: And I would do the same again. It's just my 855 00:43:00,005 --> 00:43:02,405 Speaker 4: makeup and what I do. I'll feel sorry for myself, 856 00:43:02,565 --> 00:43:04,125 Speaker 4: and I do enough of that. I don't need other 857 00:43:04,125 --> 00:43:05,165 Speaker 4: people to do it for me. 858 00:43:05,805 --> 00:43:08,045 Speaker 2: Do you sometimes feel sorry for yourself? 859 00:43:08,085 --> 00:43:09,885 Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred percent. Yeah. 860 00:43:10,045 --> 00:43:11,765 Speaker 2: Well, was it like being a single dad or are 861 00:43:11,805 --> 00:43:12,805 Speaker 2: you not a single dad? 862 00:43:13,325 --> 00:43:15,005 Speaker 4: I have a partner, you have a partner because I 863 00:43:15,005 --> 00:43:15,845 Speaker 4: have a lot of love to give. 864 00:43:15,965 --> 00:43:16,645 Speaker 2: I'm so glad. 865 00:43:16,765 --> 00:43:19,085 Speaker 4: Yeah, we live seent me separate lives because we live 866 00:43:19,125 --> 00:43:20,725 Speaker 4: in slightly different parts of the country. 867 00:43:20,845 --> 00:43:22,445 Speaker 2: Well that's easy during lockdown. 868 00:43:22,805 --> 00:43:25,085 Speaker 4: Yeah, Oh, this is going beautiful for us at the moment. 869 00:43:25,245 --> 00:43:26,925 Speaker 1: Seriously, can I catch your brakes? 870 00:43:26,925 --> 00:43:27,045 Speaker 2: Do you? 871 00:43:27,205 --> 00:43:27,645 Speaker 1: Honestly? 872 00:43:27,845 --> 00:43:29,925 Speaker 4: I know really what's going on here. I am the 873 00:43:29,965 --> 00:43:33,725 Speaker 4: most fortunate guy in the world in that I've met 874 00:43:34,005 --> 00:43:39,245 Speaker 4: another just unbelievably amazing woman. You would think, how much 875 00:43:39,285 --> 00:43:43,325 Speaker 4: more can someone teach me about my life? She's teaching 876 00:43:43,365 --> 00:43:47,005 Speaker 4: me so much that I had no idea about myself 877 00:43:47,365 --> 00:43:50,845 Speaker 4: in relation to a lessier, in relation to who I 878 00:43:50,925 --> 00:43:53,325 Speaker 4: am as an individual. You know, I thought I knew 879 00:43:53,365 --> 00:43:55,485 Speaker 4: at all when I was going out with Rosanna, and 880 00:43:55,525 --> 00:43:58,085 Speaker 4: from what I've been through, I've got so much more 881 00:43:58,085 --> 00:44:02,045 Speaker 4: to learn and she is a huge part of that. 882 00:44:02,245 --> 00:44:05,885 Speaker 4: And he's contributing an amazing amount to my life. Do 883 00:44:05,925 --> 00:44:08,205 Speaker 4: you have that love to give us? Speaking about it before? 884 00:44:08,365 --> 00:44:11,925 Speaker 4: You know? So much more to give and so positive 885 00:44:12,005 --> 00:44:16,125 Speaker 4: to be in that relationship and the same thing. Lots 886 00:44:16,165 --> 00:44:19,285 Speaker 4: of loads, lots of highs, lots of in between time, 887 00:44:19,805 --> 00:44:23,925 Speaker 4: but to still be able to share that positivity you know, 888 00:44:24,005 --> 00:44:26,925 Speaker 4: with someone else is such an amazing thing, you know, 889 00:44:27,005 --> 00:44:30,485 Speaker 4: And the same things happening is what happened with Rosanna. 890 00:44:30,685 --> 00:44:34,125 Speaker 4: In the questions about what would Rosannah have done in 891 00:44:34,125 --> 00:44:36,125 Speaker 4: this situation? Oh no, no, she would have done nothing. 892 00:44:36,845 --> 00:44:38,965 Speaker 4: It's all. But it's the same stuff going around, and 893 00:44:38,965 --> 00:44:41,885 Speaker 4: it's like, you know, the comparisons and the same things 894 00:44:41,925 --> 00:44:44,925 Speaker 4: happening with friends, and I'm going happened this all? But 895 00:44:45,045 --> 00:44:48,445 Speaker 4: it's like a deja vu, going back to some people 896 00:44:48,445 --> 00:44:51,365 Speaker 4: being nice, some people are being critical, some people you've 897 00:44:51,405 --> 00:44:53,845 Speaker 4: moved on too quickly. What are you doing moving on 898 00:44:54,005 --> 00:44:57,445 Speaker 4: with someone who's got that many kids? Just leave us alone, 899 00:44:57,565 --> 00:45:00,525 Speaker 4: like we're happy, we're happy in doing what we're doing, 900 00:45:00,845 --> 00:45:02,885 Speaker 4: and we just want to move on and live our 901 00:45:02,925 --> 00:45:07,365 Speaker 4: lives post lockdown in some sort of normal way. 902 00:45:07,685 --> 00:45:11,045 Speaker 2: There are a lot of lucky women around you, Stuart Diver, Alessia, 903 00:45:11,365 --> 00:45:14,925 Speaker 2: this new partner of yours, Sally and Rosanna for having 904 00:45:14,965 --> 00:45:18,045 Speaker 2: you in their lives when they did and for as 905 00:45:18,125 --> 00:45:20,405 Speaker 2: long as they did. It's just been a delight to 906 00:45:20,485 --> 00:45:21,125 Speaker 2: talk to you. 907 00:45:21,405 --> 00:45:24,885 Speaker 1: Just awesome. I mean I thought you would be, but 908 00:45:24,965 --> 00:45:25,685 Speaker 1: you just don't ask. 909 00:45:26,965 --> 00:45:29,125 Speaker 4: Thank you so much. So are you. It's been great 910 00:45:29,205 --> 00:45:29,845 Speaker 4: chatting today. 911 00:45:29,965 --> 00:45:32,365 Speaker 2: You're not a bad podcaster either. I have to say 912 00:45:32,605 --> 00:45:37,205 Speaker 2: I am watching that back. Thank you for listening to 913 00:45:37,285 --> 00:45:39,725 Speaker 2: this No Filter. I walked out of the studio after 914 00:45:39,765 --> 00:45:43,125 Speaker 2: this interview with just the biggest grin on my face 915 00:45:43,205 --> 00:45:46,925 Speaker 2: and the biggest spring in my step. It was such 916 00:45:46,965 --> 00:45:51,205 Speaker 2: a great day at work. I just loved talking to him. 917 00:45:51,285 --> 00:45:55,085 Speaker 2: He's just such a special, amazing person. You can hear 918 00:45:55,125 --> 00:45:58,885 Speaker 2: Stuart's new podcast The Elements, all about surviving a natural disaster. 919 00:45:58,965 --> 00:46:01,285 Speaker 2: Wherever you get your podcasts, and if you're in the 920 00:46:01,285 --> 00:46:03,845 Speaker 2: mood for another show, why not check out our daily 921 00:46:03,885 --> 00:46:08,165 Speaker 2: news show, The Quickie, hosted by Claire Murphy. The assistant 922 00:46:08,165 --> 00:46:11,165 Speaker 2: producer of No Filter is Lucy Neville. The executive producer 923 00:46:11,245 --> 00:46:14,685 Speaker 2: is Eliza Ratliffe. I'm Meya Friedman and I'll see you 924 00:46:15,045 --> 00:46:18,005 Speaker 2: Mom and Maya. If you're looking for something else to 925 00:46:18,045 --> 00:46:20,765 Speaker 2: listen to, like and follow all of our Mom and 926 00:46:20,765 --> 00:46:23,765 Speaker 2: Mea podcasts, which are currently bringing you Hot pod Summer 927 00:46:23,805 --> 00:46:27,445 Speaker 2: one hundred hours of summer listens, from spicy conversations to 928 00:46:27,645 --> 00:46:31,725 Speaker 2: incredible stories, fashion, beauty, where the friends in your ears 929 00:46:31,885 --> 00:46:32,525 Speaker 2: Over Summer