WEBVTT - Abi Morgan’s Husband Woke Up & Didn't Remember Her [re-release]

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mama Mea acknowledges

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<v Speaker 1>the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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<v Speaker 1>is recorded on. Hello Omeya Friedman and the team at

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<v Speaker 1>Mumma Mea are bringing you over one hundred hours of

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<v Speaker 1>the best of the best from across our award winning

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<v Speaker 1>podcasts to give you the hot pod Summer of your dreams.

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<v Speaker 1>Here at No Filter, we have selected the very best

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<v Speaker 1>stories of human resilience, of escaping from colts and tsunamis,

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<v Speaker 1>of surviving in prison, surviving a landslide, surviving a broken heart,

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<v Speaker 1>and so much more. Today, I'm bringing you the story

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<v Speaker 1>of Abby Morgan, which originally aired in twenty twenty two

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<v Speaker 1>and is probably still one of my favorite interviews of

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<v Speaker 1>all time. At the heart of Abby's story is a

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<v Speaker 1>love story that goes very unexpectedly in a direction that

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<v Speaker 1>nobody ever thinks when they say they're vows and can

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<v Speaker 1>to spending their life with somebody. One day, Abby's husband

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<v Speaker 1>woke up and did not know who she was. And

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just going to let her tell the rest of

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<v Speaker 1>the story. The extraordinary part of this, well, it's all extraordinary.

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<v Speaker 1>Abby's a screenwriter. She is the writer and creator of

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<v Speaker 1>one of my favorite TV shows of all time, The Split.

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<v Speaker 1>Watch that if you're looking for something to watch. It's

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely brilliant about these women who are this family of

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<v Speaker 1>women who are all divorce lawyers. And since then she

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<v Speaker 1>has also written a Netflix series called Eric, which stars

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<v Speaker 1>Benedict Cumberbatch. But this story isn't about her TV shows.

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<v Speaker 1>It's about her own life, which is truly stranger and

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<v Speaker 1>more riveting than any fiction she could have written. The

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<v Speaker 1>last few years of Abby Morgan's life would make an

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<v Speaker 1>incredible TV show, although you might not really believe it

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<v Speaker 1>because of the plot twists, the many many plot twists,

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<v Speaker 1>and it all began on an ordinary day in her

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<v Speaker 1>ordinary house in London, where Abby lived with her very

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<v Speaker 1>lovely partner, Jacob and their two teenage kids and their dog.

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<v Speaker 1>Back then in twenty eighteen, Jacob was an actor and

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<v Speaker 1>Abby was a superstar screenwriter. She still is a superstar screenwriter.

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<v Speaker 1>She had already won Emmys and Bafter Awards for her

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<v Speaker 1>work writing movies like Iron Lady, which starred Meryl Streep

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<v Speaker 1>and my all time favorite TV show, The Split. Abby

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<v Speaker 1>and Jacob had been together for twenty years. They weren't

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<v Speaker 1>married for a bunch of reasons, but they were really solid,

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<v Speaker 1>which made what happened over the next few years so unimaginable. Seriously,

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<v Speaker 1>you could not make this up because nobody would believe you.

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<v Speaker 1>This is no filter. I'm Heya Friedman, and I don't

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<v Speaker 1>want to tell you too much about what you're about

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<v Speaker 1>to hear, because Abby's whole life is about storytelling and

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<v Speaker 1>we don't want spoilers. But here's one thing I'll tell you.

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<v Speaker 1>Abbie's husband woke up one day after coming out of

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<v Speaker 1>a coma and he didn't know who she was. He

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<v Speaker 1>knew everyone else, just not her.

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<v Speaker 2>The way he looked at me, I just thought there's

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<v Speaker 2>something not right here. And at first I thought it

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<v Speaker 2>was a general thing, but then I started to notice

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<v Speaker 2>the delight in which he greeted his parents, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>with a smile or hey dad.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey.

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<v Speaker 2>He wouldn't use my name, he'd go Hi like that

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<v Speaker 2>to me. He was just off with me.

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<v Speaker 1>Abby has written a memoir about this astonishing time in

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<v Speaker 1>her life. It's a story that's still unfolding, and her

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<v Speaker 1>book is called This Is Not a Pity Memoir. She

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<v Speaker 1>joined me from London to talk about it, and I

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<v Speaker 1>have to tell you this is one of my favorite

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<v Speaker 1>conversations that I've ever had on this podcast with one

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<v Speaker 1>of the women I admire the most. Abby, tell me

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<v Speaker 1>about your life before Jacob collapsed. I want to know,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, what was normal, like? What did normal look like?

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<v Speaker 2>I think normal looked like. Lived in North London. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>had two teenagers almost cooked fourteen and sixteen. Had been

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<v Speaker 2>with Jake, my partner, for god like nearly eighteen years,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know we'd had a very real, honest, brutal,

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<v Speaker 2>brilliant marriage relationship, actually partnership, and I had. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you never have a perception of yourself, really, I mean

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<v Speaker 2>you do if you have a glass of wine and

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<v Speaker 2>you start to pig yourself what we think? You know,

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<v Speaker 2>I've done a few films, but I never perceived myself.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm always looking at everyone else, going, God, that's amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>I love there. Well, I never put myself in that

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<v Speaker 2>same group. So from my point of view, I was

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<v Speaker 2>a jobing writer. I felt privileged, I felt lucky.

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<v Speaker 1>But when you say you were a jobbing writer and

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<v Speaker 1>you've you're very modest. I've had a few films, you've

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<v Speaker 1>had some extraordinary films like you wrote The Iron Lady

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<v Speaker 1>with Meryl Street, you had written the first season of

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<v Speaker 1>The Split, which had many huge success, You've done many

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<v Speaker 1>many other films. Did you feel like you'd derived in

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<v Speaker 1>your career.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually, the bottom line is I come from theater folk.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, my mum was an actress, my dad was

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<v Speaker 2>a TV director. So for me, it's like I'm in

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<v Speaker 2>the family business. And you know, I've always described as like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, if you're an electrician, you know how to

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<v Speaker 2>rewear a plug, if you're a plumber, you know how

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<v Speaker 2>to unblock a sink. And so for me, the kind

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<v Speaker 2>of world of the business has always been I've been

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<v Speaker 2>realistic about it. I've known about the feast and farm,

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<v Speaker 2>and I grew up with that. I think one of

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<v Speaker 2>the things that's been most amazing for me is to

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<v Speaker 2>be able to go to a cashboard machine and not

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<v Speaker 2>get my card swallowed, because that was my growing up.

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<v Speaker 2>That was like praying that the cashpoint would like give

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<v Speaker 2>you money, you know, And so I think financial stability

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<v Speaker 2>for me has been far more important. And I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>even talking about massive wealth. You know, I probably could

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<v Speaker 2>have done a lot more, but I think there was

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<v Speaker 2>about a stability and a genuine where I think I

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<v Speaker 2>have arrived as I work again and again with a

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<v Speaker 2>very small group of people, and I've been doing that

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<v Speaker 2>for the last ten fifteen years, maybe longer. So I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like my method is very arrived, is very present,

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<v Speaker 2>is very centered at the heart of what I do.

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<v Speaker 2>So I feel very lucky that I don't write on

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<v Speaker 2>other people's shows. I tend to think, I want to

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<v Speaker 2>write this. I can pitch an idea, I can sell

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<v Speaker 2>an idea. I realized the privilege of that. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think I appreciated that fully, but I mentor a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of young writers, and I see the journey they have

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<v Speaker 2>to go on now. So I think, from my point

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<v Speaker 2>of view is I did the thing I loved. I

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<v Speaker 2>do the thing I love. That doesn't mean as like

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<v Speaker 2>all of us, we don't wake up and want to

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<v Speaker 2>just Internet shop all day and you know, lie and

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<v Speaker 2>watch some Netflix crap. But I definitely felt this sense

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<v Speaker 2>of I was just like when I talk about my

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<v Speaker 2>kids were cooked, they were starting to have their own lives.

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<v Speaker 2>I could find some space in my day. I think

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<v Speaker 2>Jake and I had gone through masses of ups and downs.

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<v Speaker 2>I think, you know, there are all those big issues

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<v Speaker 2>about if you're successful and you live with someone who

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<v Speaker 2>takes on the chart out, I don't have the same career,

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<v Speaker 2>and then their career starts to happen and suddenly you're like, oh, wow, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>how do I use the washing machine again?

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<v Speaker 1>You know?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we had a very nineteen fifties housewife relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I was very much like coming home and

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<v Speaker 2>having a dry martini and dinner was good. And so

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<v Speaker 2>there was a lot about our setup, which worked really

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<v Speaker 2>well for me actually, but as a result of kind

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<v Speaker 2>of what then happened, it really made me rethink about

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<v Speaker 2>where I put my value. And I think my sense

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<v Speaker 2>of myself, my identity was so close to my work

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<v Speaker 2>because it's what I know best. Words is what I

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<v Speaker 2>know best. You know, I talk too much. I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>good on silent, you know. I always feel like I

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<v Speaker 2>have to oversell myself. So yeah, but I think on

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<v Speaker 2>a basic level, I was in a pretty good place.

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<v Speaker 2>Jacob had multiple stroosis, so obviously that we lived with

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<v Speaker 2>the EBB and flow of that, but even that he

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<v Speaker 2>was pretty high functioning on that he was working, So yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I think I was lucky.

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<v Speaker 1>Really, he was an actor. Yeah, you know, you talk

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<v Speaker 1>about the nineteen fifties housewife dynamic, but in reverse. Was

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<v Speaker 1>he always come to all with that? Was that a

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<v Speaker 1>decision that you made early on in your relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>It very naturally felt like that in the beginning, because

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<v Speaker 2>when I hit the ground with Jake, when we first

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<v Speaker 2>met and we had our first our son, really really

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<v Speaker 2>quickly with a year of being together. You know, we

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<v Speaker 2>had Jesse, my boy and our boy, and I was

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<v Speaker 2>right in the middle of shootings. I was just on

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<v Speaker 2>the role of like my early mid thirties, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I was starting to get the bafters and the you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the nods, the Golden Globe but nods and all of

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<v Speaker 2>that stuff. So it was very giddy. So we had

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<v Speaker 2>quite a giddy time. And you know, we definitely had

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<v Speaker 2>childcare and help at the beginning, but Jake was just

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<v Speaker 2>Jake loved it. Jake has always been absolutely at the

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<v Speaker 2>heart of the home. He's the master of fun, and

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<v Speaker 2>he just naturally fell into that. There were definitely days,

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<v Speaker 2>there were definitely months where it was difficult. I think

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<v Speaker 2>I defy anybody a to have you know, I think

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<v Speaker 2>a baby's a grenade in any relationship. But also I

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<v Speaker 2>think if you work in this profession, you know, and

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<v Speaker 2>you're suddenly you're coming home with casting tapes and you're going,

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<v Speaker 2>you'll look at some casting tapes and you realize that

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<v Speaker 2>half your friends you're looking you know, you're you're looking

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<v Speaker 2>at audition tapes of our friends and you're thinking, God,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I can't put you forward for anything. So

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<v Speaker 2>there were those kind of tensions. But what no one

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<v Speaker 2>really tells you about a long relationship is the ebb

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<v Speaker 2>and flow, the highs and lows, and actually the lows

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<v Speaker 2>can be pretty low, but you get through those. And

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<v Speaker 2>so I think one of the things that we were

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<v Speaker 2>very brutal with each other, very direct, and we also

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<v Speaker 2>do a lot of marriage therapy, so when things got

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<v Speaker 2>we'd always we'd dive in for bits, and so we

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<v Speaker 2>were quite well versed. Not on a kind of deeply

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<v Speaker 2>organic we'd sit and stir into each other's eyes and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, kind of you know, hold ourselves in a

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<v Speaker 2>circle of gratitude. It was much more like, oh God,

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<v Speaker 2>we've got to go tonight. Okay, let's go.

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<v Speaker 1>And it was actually often it wasn't a sex week,

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't a sexual It was.

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<v Speaker 2>Like you know, it was more like the enjoyment afterwards

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<v Speaker 2>where we'd go, oh my god, wasn't it funny when

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<v Speaker 2>we said that, and the drink in the pub afterwards,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it was it was those moments. But we've

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<v Speaker 2>gone through a lot together. We've gone through a lot

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<v Speaker 2>together before we had we've got to this place, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think I was in a place where I

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<v Speaker 2>was very much like, Okay, I'm in it for the

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<v Speaker 2>long rule with Jacob, you know, for both of us.

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<v Speaker 2>I think we were both there.

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<v Speaker 1>June twenty eighteen. Can you tell me about that day,

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<v Speaker 1>how it started and how it ended.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a very hot London kind of FuG My

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<v Speaker 2>son was just finishing his final GCSS, which I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know what the equipments in Australia, but it's you do

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<v Speaker 2>them at sixteen. It's fine. A year of school, funny

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<v Speaker 2>year of school. Jake wasn't feeling great, and this would

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<v Speaker 2>often happen, you know, Jake just didn't feel great. It

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<v Speaker 2>was it was the kind of ebb and flow, the

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<v Speaker 2>tidal nature of MS. But at the time I just thought,

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<v Speaker 2>oh god, it's man, flee, Okay, I'll do what I do.

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<v Speaker 2>But it had been going on a few days. He'd

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<v Speaker 2>been working. He'd done about two days before he asked

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<v Speaker 2>me to run some lines with him, and we were

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<v Speaker 2>laughing so much because he couldn't get he couldn't get

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<v Speaker 2>his lines out, and I knew he knew them, but

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<v Speaker 2>it was more it was just very lots of spoonerisms

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<v Speaker 2>and just how funny he couldn't just quite hold together

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<v Speaker 2>the sentence. But we dismissed it as just tired and

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<v Speaker 2>actually he'd overwork the lines. He knew the lines too well,

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<v Speaker 2>that's what it was. He'd developed a slight rash again.

0:11:08.485 --> 0:11:12.245
<v Speaker 2>It was like, well, it's hot. So I went out

0:11:12.245 --> 0:11:14.045
<v Speaker 2>to get steroids for him, which is what we did

0:11:14.165 --> 0:11:16.125
<v Speaker 2>on those moments where he could feel he was on

0:11:16.125 --> 0:11:18.845
<v Speaker 2>the edge of a potential MS relapse, which is where

0:11:18.885 --> 0:11:20.965
<v Speaker 2>you really go down for a few weeks and you

0:11:21.005 --> 0:11:22.965
<v Speaker 2>can just pull it back some steroids. So I went

0:11:23.045 --> 0:11:26.325
<v Speaker 2>to Queen's Square, which is the hospital where Jacob would

0:11:26.325 --> 0:11:28.645
<v Speaker 2>every month go for his MSS injection, which was a

0:11:28.725 --> 0:11:30.645
<v Speaker 2>sort of a sort of new wand to drug he

0:11:30.725 --> 0:11:35.605
<v Speaker 2>was on. And when I came back, I found him

0:11:35.605 --> 0:11:38.925
<v Speaker 2>clapsed on the bathroom floor and he was clapsed in

0:11:38.925 --> 0:11:41.245
<v Speaker 2>a way that it was like I thought he'd just

0:11:41.325 --> 0:11:43.005
<v Speaker 2>laying down in there because it was cool, you know,

0:11:43.045 --> 0:11:45.405
<v Speaker 2>the tars were cool. But he was not making sense.

0:11:45.445 --> 0:11:48.205
<v Speaker 2>He was just repetitive speech, and I knew immediately something

0:11:48.285 --> 0:11:52.565
<v Speaker 2>was very wrong. Cut to you know, blue lit to

0:11:52.605 --> 0:11:57.165
<v Speaker 2>a hospital, all the kind of craziness of that, and

0:11:57.245 --> 0:11:59.605
<v Speaker 2>I guess you know, there are those moments. I always

0:11:59.605 --> 0:12:02.965
<v Speaker 2>remember a girlfriend saying to me, when's my future going

0:12:03.005 --> 0:12:04.725
<v Speaker 2>to happen to me? And I always say, your future

0:12:04.765 --> 0:12:07.725
<v Speaker 2>just happens. It's like it doesn't necessarily evolve, it just

0:12:07.765 --> 0:12:09.845
<v Speaker 2>you don't notice it, and then suddenly it's bam. And

0:12:09.925 --> 0:12:12.685
<v Speaker 2>it was like, in that moment, I knew I was

0:12:12.725 --> 0:12:15.685
<v Speaker 2>in it, but also I was immediately my screenwriting head

0:12:15.725 --> 0:12:18.085
<v Speaker 2>was on, so I was almost I mean, I describe it,

0:12:18.125 --> 0:12:20.005
<v Speaker 2>but I was feeling like, oh my god, this is

0:12:20.125 --> 0:12:22.405
<v Speaker 2>this is a drama. You know, the kind of five

0:12:22.485 --> 0:12:25.245
<v Speaker 2>year old only you loved, loved the drama, who loved

0:12:25.245 --> 0:12:27.525
<v Speaker 2>the hit of the the hit of the punchline, the

0:12:27.565 --> 0:12:29.925
<v Speaker 2>hit of the plot twist. It was there. It was

0:12:29.965 --> 0:12:33.325
<v Speaker 2>definitely adrenalized, and I think it's a little bit it

0:12:33.325 --> 0:12:35.445
<v Speaker 2>reminded me a little bit like when you get pregnant,

0:12:35.565 --> 0:12:37.325
<v Speaker 2>and you know, it's like for me, I just had

0:12:37.405 --> 0:12:39.645
<v Speaker 2>nine months of a hangover, but it's like you are

0:12:39.765 --> 0:12:41.885
<v Speaker 2>suddenly in an altered state, and as much as you

0:12:41.925 --> 0:12:43.565
<v Speaker 2>want to get back, you just can't. You going to

0:12:43.645 --> 0:12:45.805
<v Speaker 2>have to go forward and through it. It was not

0:12:45.885 --> 0:12:48.365
<v Speaker 2>unlike that feeling of like whoa, Okay, I'm on a

0:12:48.485 --> 0:12:53.085
<v Speaker 2>ride and whoa, I feel chemically weird, very adrenalized, but

0:12:53.165 --> 0:12:55.765
<v Speaker 2>also I think you're hyper vigilant and you're just fighting

0:12:55.805 --> 0:12:59.565
<v Speaker 2>for somebody. Because yeah, it was it was apparent in

0:12:59.605 --> 0:13:03.085
<v Speaker 2>that moment Jade was very unwell. But then four or

0:13:03.085 --> 0:13:05.565
<v Speaker 2>five hours later he'd had all the scans, he'd come

0:13:05.645 --> 0:13:08.405
<v Speaker 2>through the other side, and he went from being repetitive

0:13:08.405 --> 0:13:11.605
<v Speaker 2>words speech like, oh my god, what happened? And we

0:13:11.685 --> 0:13:14.205
<v Speaker 2>put it down to it was a seizure of some

0:13:14.365 --> 0:13:15.845
<v Speaker 2>kind and they were just trying to work out what

0:13:15.845 --> 0:13:17.925
<v Speaker 2>it was. But in that moment he was like he'd

0:13:17.965 --> 0:13:22.165
<v Speaker 2>been swearing profusely at the at the paramedics that had arrived,

0:13:22.165 --> 0:13:24.605
<v Speaker 2>an amazing posse of paramedics who came to help him,

0:13:24.645 --> 0:13:30.165
<v Speaker 2>and he was just mortified. So that was the immediate reaction.

0:13:30.365 --> 0:13:34.845
<v Speaker 2>But then over the next two weeks, Jacob physically, cognitively,

0:13:34.885 --> 0:13:38.325
<v Speaker 2>psychiatrically just unraveled. And that was when it became apparent

0:13:38.365 --> 0:13:41.565
<v Speaker 2>that this was way beyond just potentially an infection from

0:13:41.605 --> 0:13:44.925
<v Speaker 2>a tick or you know it was it was viral menagitis.

0:13:45.005 --> 0:13:47.925
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't meningitis. It was another kind of infection. You

0:13:48.005 --> 0:13:50.045
<v Speaker 2>might have gone, could it be could it be a

0:13:50.245 --> 0:13:53.645
<v Speaker 2>you know, was it a relapse? But it became apparent

0:13:53.725 --> 0:13:56.125
<v Speaker 2>sort of two weeks in that actually it was life threatening.

0:13:56.325 --> 0:14:00.045
<v Speaker 2>And I think that was when the world started to

0:14:00.125 --> 0:14:02.165
<v Speaker 2>slow and I realized it was not just that I

0:14:02.205 --> 0:14:04.205
<v Speaker 2>was in a drama, but the world had tipped upside

0:14:04.245 --> 0:14:05.845
<v Speaker 2>down and it was like you were walking on the

0:14:05.885 --> 0:14:08.765
<v Speaker 2>scening looking down on your life, going, this is surreal,

0:14:08.925 --> 0:14:12.085
<v Speaker 2>totally surreal, and I think nobody prepares you for how

0:14:12.125 --> 0:14:13.205
<v Speaker 2>physical trauma is.

0:14:14.445 --> 0:14:19.005
<v Speaker 1>You know, you talk about at one point hoping, you know,

0:14:19.005 --> 0:14:20.925
<v Speaker 1>when they're trying to work out what it is, because

0:14:21.125 --> 0:14:24.845
<v Speaker 1>it's not following that pattern that almost they expect, where

0:14:24.845 --> 0:14:29.085
<v Speaker 1>it sort of keeps deteriorating. It's unclear what's going on,

0:14:29.405 --> 0:14:32.125
<v Speaker 1>and you find yourself at one point they're looking for

0:14:32.125 --> 0:14:34.725
<v Speaker 1>a tumor, and you find yourself hoping that it's a chair,

0:14:34.965 --> 0:14:37.685
<v Speaker 1>And you have to say to yourself, where am I

0:14:37.725 --> 0:14:40.725
<v Speaker 1>in the world where I'm hoping that my husband has cancer,

0:14:40.725 --> 0:14:42.165
<v Speaker 1>because that's going to be good news.

0:14:42.485 --> 0:14:44.765
<v Speaker 2>You want things that you can control. You want something

0:14:44.805 --> 0:14:46.885
<v Speaker 2>that has a kind of level of certainty. Obviously cancel.

0:14:47.085 --> 0:14:50.365
<v Speaker 2>You know it's nobody wants that diagnosis, but you do

0:14:50.405 --> 0:14:52.565
<v Speaker 2>want something to make sense. And you know, Jacob went

0:14:52.685 --> 0:14:57.365
<v Speaker 2>from talking non stop, talking in Shakespearean language, you know,

0:14:57.405 --> 0:14:59.045
<v Speaker 2>what is my duty? What is my cause? Why am

0:14:59.045 --> 0:15:04.525
<v Speaker 2>I here to mute, catatonic staring into space to turning

0:15:04.525 --> 0:15:08.605
<v Speaker 2>into a kind of border Empire gangster and like punching everybody.

0:15:08.605 --> 0:15:10.205
<v Speaker 2>You know, they had to go to guard on his door.

0:15:10.365 --> 0:15:12.925
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think as a family, both mine and Jacob,

0:15:12.965 --> 0:15:15.965
<v Speaker 2>particularly Jacob's family, who you know, were all very close,

0:15:16.645 --> 0:15:21.365
<v Speaker 2>watching their son, their brother, their uncle and Rabel was overwhelming.

0:15:21.365 --> 0:15:24.325
<v Speaker 2>For my children, it was what the Hell's going on?

0:15:24.445 --> 0:15:28.165
<v Speaker 2>It just didn't make sense. And actually I think what

0:15:28.605 --> 0:15:30.365
<v Speaker 2>was happening was there was just a key mont where

0:15:30.365 --> 0:15:33.325
<v Speaker 2>it looked like Jake may not survive and physically his

0:15:33.365 --> 0:15:36.205
<v Speaker 2>body just couldn't take this kind of what we now

0:15:36.245 --> 0:15:39.605
<v Speaker 2>realize was something called brain on fire, which is a

0:15:39.645 --> 0:15:43.605
<v Speaker 2>kind of encephalitis which they discovered in his bloodstream just

0:15:43.685 --> 0:15:46.725
<v Speaker 2>as he was being put into a coma. They suspected

0:15:46.725 --> 0:15:48.925
<v Speaker 2>it and they got confirmation. But at two weeks in,

0:15:49.005 --> 0:15:51.205
<v Speaker 2>the decision was taken to put him in a medically

0:15:51.165 --> 0:15:51.885
<v Speaker 2>induced coma.

0:15:52.605 --> 0:15:54.845
<v Speaker 1>And I think is that to let his brain recover.

0:15:54.925 --> 0:15:55.445
<v Speaker 1>To let his.

0:15:55.445 --> 0:15:57.925
<v Speaker 2>Brain recover, he was to try and stop the seizuring.

0:15:58.005 --> 0:16:01.885
<v Speaker 2>He was just continually seizuring. And also just your pneumonic

0:16:01.965 --> 0:16:04.645
<v Speaker 2>function and you're swallowing, you're breathing, your heart rate, all

0:16:04.645 --> 0:16:06.965
<v Speaker 2>of those things are under pressure. So it's a way

0:16:07.005 --> 0:16:10.325
<v Speaker 2>to ventilate somebody, to just get them into a state

0:16:10.365 --> 0:16:13.525
<v Speaker 2>where you can start, if needs be, taking over the

0:16:13.565 --> 0:16:16.845
<v Speaker 2>basic kind of organ control. So it's a combination of

0:16:16.925 --> 0:16:19.845
<v Speaker 2>giving Jake physically some rest, his body some rest, I think,

0:16:19.925 --> 0:16:22.325
<v Speaker 2>giving them some time to kind of try and control

0:16:22.365 --> 0:16:25.005
<v Speaker 2>what was happening to him. And in that time you're

0:16:25.325 --> 0:16:28.165
<v Speaker 2>sort of thrust in this very exclusive world. So we

0:16:28.165 --> 0:16:31.965
<v Speaker 2>were in the medically intensive unit, and you know, in

0:16:31.965 --> 0:16:34.405
<v Speaker 2>that unit you're seeing the gamut of injury. You know,

0:16:34.445 --> 0:16:38.125
<v Speaker 2>you're seeing clearly very old people who have suddenly got

0:16:38.165 --> 0:16:41.005
<v Speaker 2>had a stroke or you know, a very young person

0:16:41.045 --> 0:16:44.445
<v Speaker 2>who's clearly had a really horrific car accident and you

0:16:44.485 --> 0:16:46.845
<v Speaker 2>know will never be the same. And so you're literally

0:16:46.885 --> 0:16:48.805
<v Speaker 2>sort of caught between these places, going are you going

0:16:48.845 --> 0:16:50.125
<v Speaker 2>to be there? Are you going to be there? You

0:16:50.165 --> 0:16:54.085
<v Speaker 2>know what's going on. It's a very surreal, surreal, surreal experience,

0:16:54.125 --> 0:16:56.565
<v Speaker 2>you know, And I've watched those things on drama. I've

0:16:56.645 --> 0:16:58.325
<v Speaker 2>just you know, today I've had to write a scene

0:16:58.365 --> 0:17:00.885
<v Speaker 2>of a hospital scene, and you know, I'm doing exactly

0:17:00.885 --> 0:17:03.325
<v Speaker 2>the thing we will do. Someone's rushing through doors, are opening,

0:17:03.565 --> 0:17:05.765
<v Speaker 2>a nurse very quickly gives the diagnosis, and there's a

0:17:05.885 --> 0:17:08.805
<v Speaker 2>kind of reactive moment. Well, it's the relentlessness of it

0:17:09.445 --> 0:17:11.925
<v Speaker 2>must I mean, I remember that I kept on calling

0:17:11.925 --> 0:17:13.725
<v Speaker 2>a girlfriend, going, I really think he's not going to

0:17:13.765 --> 0:17:15.885
<v Speaker 2>make it today. I really think it's not going to happen.

0:17:15.965 --> 0:17:17.685
<v Speaker 2>And then I was thinking, God, I was doing this

0:17:17.725 --> 0:17:19.805
<v Speaker 2>two days ago. This is on repeat. You know I

0:17:19.805 --> 0:17:23.445
<v Speaker 2>would have edited this bit. So it's surreal experience. It's

0:17:23.445 --> 0:17:27.765
<v Speaker 2>a really really surreal experience, you know, totally surreal.

0:17:27.845 --> 0:17:31.525
<v Speaker 1>And you talk about in your book about how in

0:17:31.965 --> 0:17:35.485
<v Speaker 1>the movies, maybe not ones that you've written, but in

0:17:35.525 --> 0:17:38.725
<v Speaker 1>the movies being in a coma, there's like this quiet

0:17:38.805 --> 0:17:42.045
<v Speaker 1>room and there's a beautiful sheet up, and maybe there's

0:17:42.045 --> 0:17:44.765
<v Speaker 1>some quiet music playing and a lot of families with

0:17:44.845 --> 0:17:47.765
<v Speaker 1>tears rolling down their face, holding hands. And you say

0:17:47.805 --> 0:17:48.965
<v Speaker 1>it's very different to that.

0:17:49.365 --> 0:17:52.085
<v Speaker 2>Well, I do think there is a kind of profound,

0:17:52.885 --> 0:17:57.325
<v Speaker 2>intense concentration going on in those spaces. But what's extraordinary

0:17:57.325 --> 0:17:59.925
<v Speaker 2>is people are in comas. So nurses are talking about

0:17:59.925 --> 0:18:03.125
<v Speaker 2>their day. You know, you've got orders being taken for delivery.

0:18:03.205 --> 0:18:05.045
<v Speaker 2>You know, you've got someone saying there's a uber here,

0:18:05.085 --> 0:18:07.285
<v Speaker 2>So you've got all of that the life. Then you've

0:18:07.285 --> 0:18:09.685
<v Speaker 2>got the kind of mechanics of looking after someone. You know,

0:18:10.165 --> 0:18:12.925
<v Speaker 2>there is so much equipment some on. So with Jacob,

0:18:12.965 --> 0:18:15.165
<v Speaker 2>it was a ventilator that constantly had to be cleaned.

0:18:15.205 --> 0:18:17.205
<v Speaker 2>You know, there are those things that make the suctions,

0:18:17.245 --> 0:18:21.645
<v Speaker 2>the peaks, the wizzes, the part monitors that the cold blankets,

0:18:21.685 --> 0:18:24.125
<v Speaker 2>the ice, the suddenly the temperature's got so much, Let's

0:18:24.165 --> 0:18:26.725
<v Speaker 2>just surround him with an ice blanket. Let's cool him down,

0:18:26.805 --> 0:18:29.685
<v Speaker 2>let's heat him up. Let's you know, his blood pressure

0:18:29.685 --> 0:18:31.285
<v Speaker 2>has gone too high. Let's try and bring down. We

0:18:31.325 --> 0:18:33.165
<v Speaker 2>need to get some more medication. We need to stop

0:18:33.205 --> 0:18:37.085
<v Speaker 2>the medication. We need consultants, doctor's therapists. Let's move his limbs.

0:18:37.125 --> 0:18:38.925
<v Speaker 2>We've got to keep his limbs moving. We've got to

0:18:38.925 --> 0:18:40.965
<v Speaker 2>move his body. We've got to pull something through his

0:18:41.005 --> 0:18:42.565
<v Speaker 2>stomach because he can't go to the toilet.

0:18:42.565 --> 0:18:42.645
<v Speaker 1>This.

0:18:42.965 --> 0:18:46.285
<v Speaker 2>You know, there's so much going on, and there is

0:18:46.325 --> 0:18:48.445
<v Speaker 2>this sort of surreal little waiting room. There was a

0:18:48.485 --> 0:18:50.445
<v Speaker 2>little rating room that there was an electric door, and

0:18:50.525 --> 0:18:53.685
<v Speaker 2>it was just for families, of which very very small group,

0:18:53.765 --> 0:18:55.685
<v Speaker 2>you know, probably only two or three of you, because

0:18:55.685 --> 0:18:59.125
<v Speaker 2>there were only five beds in the whole ward. And

0:18:59.485 --> 0:19:02.005
<v Speaker 2>you spend most of it watching really terrible daytime TV.

0:19:02.485 --> 0:19:05.205
<v Speaker 2>And everybody's waiting for a consultant to try and stop them.

0:19:05.245 --> 0:19:07.325
<v Speaker 2>And if you can, you can jump in and get

0:19:07.325 --> 0:19:09.605
<v Speaker 2>in the room. I mean, one of the things that

0:19:09.605 --> 0:19:12.165
<v Speaker 2>I feel incredibly grateful for was this was pre COVID,

0:19:12.365 --> 0:19:15.365
<v Speaker 2>so we could be with Jacob. We could be with him,

0:19:15.405 --> 0:19:17.925
<v Speaker 2>we were able to be not you know, Max was

0:19:18.005 --> 0:19:19.525
<v Speaker 2>two people at a time, but we could be in

0:19:19.525 --> 0:19:22.165
<v Speaker 2>the room with him. So but it's totally surreal. There

0:19:22.205 --> 0:19:25.085
<v Speaker 2>was the very beautiful little thing which was somebody was

0:19:25.205 --> 0:19:29.645
<v Speaker 2>leaving really beautifully drawn post it notes with beautifully drawn

0:19:29.685 --> 0:19:31.925
<v Speaker 2>with little phrases little hey, how are you doing today?

0:19:32.205 --> 0:19:34.085
<v Speaker 2>And that none of the nurses knew who it was,

0:19:34.245 --> 0:19:37.205
<v Speaker 2>but they were being stuck everywhere, and so that became

0:19:37.205 --> 0:19:39.485
<v Speaker 2>a sort of detective hunt on the on the wall,

0:19:39.485 --> 0:19:41.365
<v Speaker 2>people were like, can you see what's going on? But

0:19:41.405 --> 0:19:44.005
<v Speaker 2>also no one tells you about the turnover of staff.

0:19:44.365 --> 0:19:47.085
<v Speaker 2>So you know, in a drama you have one doctor,

0:19:47.125 --> 0:19:49.725
<v Speaker 2>you have one nurse. They're becoming your best friends. You

0:19:49.765 --> 0:19:52.165
<v Speaker 2>have a rotation all the time. And in fact, I

0:19:52.205 --> 0:19:53.885
<v Speaker 2>don't know whether it's the same in Australia, but in

0:19:53.925 --> 0:19:57.605
<v Speaker 2>the UK doctor consultants not your chief but the kind

0:19:57.605 --> 0:20:01.085
<v Speaker 2>of managerial consultant that you meant to see. They don't

0:20:01.085 --> 0:20:03.765
<v Speaker 2>stay longer than three months. You know, Jacob was in

0:20:03.805 --> 0:20:06.605
<v Speaker 2>a coma for seven months, so we had a turnover

0:20:06.685 --> 0:20:10.205
<v Speaker 2>of three four consultants during that time, constantly going where's

0:20:10.325 --> 0:20:12.245
<v Speaker 2>oh is doctor? Oh he's gone, No, No, he's gone

0:20:12.245 --> 0:20:14.685
<v Speaker 2>to another world. And it's actually m built. It's designed

0:20:14.725 --> 0:20:17.485
<v Speaker 2>like that so you don't get too close, right, So

0:20:17.685 --> 0:20:20.005
<v Speaker 2>even that the kind of methodology of the kind of

0:20:20.045 --> 0:20:22.685
<v Speaker 2>amazingly bonded relationship you're going to have through the consultant.

0:20:22.805 --> 0:20:25.605
<v Speaker 2>You're not. They're constantly being moved on.

0:20:26.205 --> 0:20:28.405
<v Speaker 1>And that sense of loss and having to start again.

0:20:28.965 --> 0:20:31.925
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, and learn the language and share the language

0:20:31.925 --> 0:20:33.965
<v Speaker 2>of who this person is and who they are and

0:20:34.805 --> 0:20:36.365
<v Speaker 2>who you are in relation to them.

0:20:36.765 --> 0:20:40.285
<v Speaker 1>And you say this went on for seven months and

0:20:40.325 --> 0:20:44.085
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't sound at all peaceful, and you know, you

0:20:44.205 --> 0:20:46.805
<v Speaker 1>write about these are dramatic times. But more than this,

0:20:46.965 --> 0:20:49.885
<v Speaker 1>they are lonely, and more they are boring. No one

0:20:49.925 --> 0:20:52.125
<v Speaker 1>told me how boring loss is. No.

0:20:52.285 --> 0:20:54.325
<v Speaker 2>And it's quite funny because when I look at that period,

0:20:54.445 --> 0:20:56.925
<v Speaker 2>I suddenly think, do you have Love Island?

0:20:57.125 --> 0:20:58.485
<v Speaker 1>Yes? Oh, yes?

0:20:59.005 --> 0:21:01.925
<v Speaker 2>I had a Love Island party. Jake was in a

0:21:01.965 --> 0:21:04.765
<v Speaker 2>coma and I had a Love Island party where I

0:21:04.805 --> 0:21:07.005
<v Speaker 2>invited all my friends around and we got the jazzled

0:21:07.125 --> 0:21:09.965
<v Speaker 2>and I got all my daughter's friends did nails, and

0:21:10.005 --> 0:21:12.125
<v Speaker 2>we had cocktails and we watched the final and then

0:21:12.125 --> 0:21:14.805
<v Speaker 2>I had a fiftieth Birdy party for fifty people in

0:21:14.845 --> 0:21:18.205
<v Speaker 2>my kitchen. I'm like, what planet was I on? And

0:21:18.285 --> 0:21:20.045
<v Speaker 2>at the same time, I mean, it's sort of weird,

0:21:20.085 --> 0:21:21.485
<v Speaker 2>you know, the kind of idea that I should be

0:21:21.485 --> 0:21:23.965
<v Speaker 2>wearing black and sort of just sitting by Jacob's bird.

0:21:24.085 --> 0:21:28.005
<v Speaker 2>We just can't do that. But also, you've got teenagers,

0:21:28.045 --> 0:21:29.925
<v Speaker 2>you know, I had my mother in law, I had

0:21:29.645 --> 0:21:33.165
<v Speaker 2>my siblings. You have a community of people who need

0:21:33.525 --> 0:21:36.565
<v Speaker 2>you need support, but they need support. So I sort

0:21:36.565 --> 0:21:38.405
<v Speaker 2>of took over where Jacob did, which is I became

0:21:38.445 --> 0:21:40.525
<v Speaker 2>the kind of master of fun. So I look back

0:21:40.525 --> 0:21:42.285
<v Speaker 2>down and think, but I think a lot of it

0:21:42.325 --> 0:21:45.045
<v Speaker 2>was I was trying to counteract the boredom, and the

0:21:45.085 --> 0:21:47.125
<v Speaker 2>boredom was kind of the worst thing because there was

0:21:47.125 --> 0:21:50.005
<v Speaker 2>an inactivity to it. The truth is, I think when

0:21:50.045 --> 0:21:52.365
<v Speaker 2>someone is in a coma, there is a level of

0:21:52.365 --> 0:21:55.485
<v Speaker 2>inactivity or impotency you have as a family member, because

0:21:55.965 --> 0:21:57.525
<v Speaker 2>that's the essential part of it. I mean, one of

0:21:57.525 --> 0:22:00.205
<v Speaker 2>the things I found very interesting was towards the end

0:22:00.205 --> 0:22:03.525
<v Speaker 2>of Jake's coma, when he was still very much submerged

0:22:03.565 --> 0:22:07.365
<v Speaker 2>in it, a notice went up above his bed and said,

0:22:08.365 --> 0:22:11.765
<v Speaker 2>do not overstimulate the patient no more than fifteen minutes conversation.

0:22:12.725 --> 0:22:14.845
<v Speaker 2>And I suddenly realized again, you know, I'd sort of

0:22:14.845 --> 0:22:16.645
<v Speaker 2>given up on the idea that Jake could hear us,

0:22:17.085 --> 0:22:19.245
<v Speaker 2>and I was reminded that Jake, as Jake was starting

0:22:19.245 --> 0:22:20.845
<v Speaker 2>to come up a lot of what was going on

0:22:20.885 --> 0:22:24.605
<v Speaker 2>around him was becoming incredibly stimulating. And so that was

0:22:24.645 --> 0:22:27.005
<v Speaker 2>when I realized that, Okay, we've got to go back

0:22:27.045 --> 0:22:29.525
<v Speaker 2>in again and connect, but for the vast period of it.

0:22:30.005 --> 0:22:32.405
<v Speaker 2>And when you talk to Jacob now, he'll go, I

0:22:32.405 --> 0:22:34.405
<v Speaker 2>don't remember any of it. I have no memory of

0:22:34.405 --> 0:22:36.645
<v Speaker 2>any of it, whereas you know, of course, you know

0:22:36.725 --> 0:22:38.885
<v Speaker 2>I was speaking eulogies to it. You know, we were

0:22:38.885 --> 0:22:41.645
<v Speaker 2>playing every we were sourcing his favorite bits of music.

0:22:42.645 --> 0:22:44.685
<v Speaker 2>I think in many ways, you're doing that for yourself

0:22:45.285 --> 0:22:47.845
<v Speaker 2>as much as anything else, because you're doing something to

0:22:47.885 --> 0:22:51.165
<v Speaker 2>give form to the chaos of it and to have

0:22:51.285 --> 0:22:53.525
<v Speaker 2>something to do every day, because most of the time

0:22:53.565 --> 0:22:56.405
<v Speaker 2>that you have nothing to do in that context. So

0:22:56.445 --> 0:22:57.925
<v Speaker 2>what you then have to do is really work hard

0:22:57.965 --> 0:22:59.765
<v Speaker 2>to make the rest of your life work because you

0:22:59.885 --> 0:23:02.085
<v Speaker 2>need that energy and you need that. You need to

0:23:02.085 --> 0:23:04.005
<v Speaker 2>find the joy. I suppose you need to find the

0:23:04.085 --> 0:23:07.485
<v Speaker 2>joy because one month, two months, three months, four month,

0:23:07.525 --> 0:23:09.165
<v Speaker 2>and you really need to start to find the joy.

0:23:10.005 --> 0:23:11.285
<v Speaker 2>Running parallel with it.

0:23:11.445 --> 0:23:15.245
<v Speaker 1>You also need to find the money. Like the logistics

0:23:15.325 --> 0:23:19.365
<v Speaker 1>of you know, work will understand and everyone around you

0:23:19.405 --> 0:23:21.245
<v Speaker 1>will understand if you need to take a week off

0:23:21.285 --> 0:23:23.925
<v Speaker 1>two weeks off, maybe three weeks off, but you were

0:23:23.965 --> 0:23:28.765
<v Speaker 1>writing season two of a hit show. Yeah, and you

0:23:28.805 --> 0:23:31.765
<v Speaker 1>know for the Baby say, you had a cast, you

0:23:31.845 --> 0:23:35.485
<v Speaker 1>had everybody's schedules, Like, well, how did you handle that?

0:23:35.645 --> 0:23:36.965
<v Speaker 1>How did you manage it? It's not like there's a

0:23:36.965 --> 0:23:37.925
<v Speaker 1>team of writers. It's you.

0:23:38.525 --> 0:23:40.125
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I mean that show is you.

0:23:40.205 --> 0:23:40.445
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:23:40.445 --> 0:23:42.685
<v Speaker 2>I did have another writer on that second series who

0:23:42.725 --> 0:23:45.405
<v Speaker 2>is really helpful. I also had a creative team that

0:23:45.405 --> 0:23:48.445
<v Speaker 2>I know incredibly well, you know, and there's something weird,

0:23:48.485 --> 0:23:52.005
<v Speaker 2>you know. I really my creative team. I work specifically

0:23:52.045 --> 0:23:54.445
<v Speaker 2>with a producer, Jane Featherstone, who wants sister pictures and

0:23:54.485 --> 0:23:57.965
<v Speaker 2>we've worked together forever. She's a really good friends as well,

0:23:58.005 --> 0:23:59.485
<v Speaker 2>you know. So I need to be that open and

0:23:59.525 --> 0:24:01.805
<v Speaker 2>I've always needed to do that, you know. I've got

0:24:01.845 --> 0:24:04.125
<v Speaker 2>add I can't stop talking. It's part of what I

0:24:04.165 --> 0:24:06.685
<v Speaker 2>have to sort of monitor myself, and so people know

0:24:06.765 --> 0:24:09.365
<v Speaker 2>that about me. So I didn't keep silent of that

0:24:09.405 --> 0:24:11.685
<v Speaker 2>this experience. And what funny enough, one of the things

0:24:11.685 --> 0:24:13.925
<v Speaker 2>that's come back a lot from people is, oh my god,

0:24:13.965 --> 0:24:16.165
<v Speaker 2>you had so many people supporting you. And I realized

0:24:16.165 --> 0:24:18.445
<v Speaker 2>it is because I went in go oh my God,

0:24:18.485 --> 0:24:21.045
<v Speaker 2>you won't believe what happened today. And of course people's

0:24:21.125 --> 0:24:22.725
<v Speaker 2>natural instinct when you tell them is to go what

0:24:22.885 --> 0:24:25.725
<v Speaker 2>we kid we do. So my case, I was incredibly

0:24:25.805 --> 0:24:30.685
<v Speaker 2>lucky because the editorial meeting rooms and my production company

0:24:30.765 --> 0:24:32.845
<v Speaker 2>was literally ten minutes walk from the hospital. I mean,

0:24:33.085 --> 0:24:35.645
<v Speaker 2>how lucky could that be? You know, there were families

0:24:35.685 --> 0:24:37.205
<v Speaker 2>on the wood that were having to travel into as

0:24:37.245 --> 0:24:39.645
<v Speaker 2>a day just to get to that hospital. So loads

0:24:39.645 --> 0:24:42.765
<v Speaker 2>of luck, loads of luck. Also incredible people who would

0:24:42.845 --> 0:24:45.885
<v Speaker 2>kind of go, Okay, let's focus, let's get you down

0:24:45.925 --> 0:24:48.005
<v Speaker 2>on this script, let's talk through the script. And then

0:24:48.045 --> 0:24:50.045
<v Speaker 2>they would see me go and go, okay, bring down

0:24:50.085 --> 0:24:51.525
<v Speaker 2>the blinds. We're leaving you for an hour. We'll come

0:24:51.565 --> 0:24:54.165
<v Speaker 2>back and now here's a bowl of harribos. Eat those

0:24:54.165 --> 0:24:55.845
<v Speaker 2>when you get wake up. And so I would just

0:24:56.005 --> 0:24:58.485
<v Speaker 2>like I was just held. I mean I have to

0:24:58.525 --> 0:25:02.925
<v Speaker 2>say I don't. And actually writing for me was something

0:25:03.005 --> 0:25:05.685
<v Speaker 2>that was essential. I kept going through my entire through

0:25:05.685 --> 0:25:09.325
<v Speaker 2>this entire experience, I didn't stop writing. So I write

0:25:09.525 --> 0:25:13.405
<v Speaker 2>in the room, I wrote, I wrote it, Yeah, so interesting.

0:25:13.925 --> 0:25:17.605
<v Speaker 2>I needed it. I needed that. I needed to process that.

0:25:17.725 --> 0:25:20.365
<v Speaker 2>And I think, what's strange? I don't think it's until

0:25:20.405 --> 0:25:22.685
<v Speaker 2>series three actually that the real experience of what I've

0:25:22.725 --> 0:25:25.885
<v Speaker 2>gone through went into that final series, But certainly series

0:25:25.885 --> 0:25:28.605
<v Speaker 2>two it was you know, and it's a big machine.

0:25:28.645 --> 0:25:30.365
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's focused on the full crumb of you.

0:25:31.205 --> 0:25:34.085
<v Speaker 2>But you also have producers, you have brilliant directors, you

0:25:34.085 --> 0:25:36.565
<v Speaker 2>have your editorial team. You then have the actors who

0:25:36.605 --> 0:25:38.725
<v Speaker 2>you know incredibly well, who are the keepers of character,

0:25:38.725 --> 0:25:40.525
<v Speaker 2>who can come to you and say it's gone a

0:25:40.525 --> 0:25:43.005
<v Speaker 2>bit hoky, that bit you know, you know they you

0:25:43.085 --> 0:25:45.645
<v Speaker 2>have so many people doing that, checks and balances and

0:25:45.685 --> 0:25:48.085
<v Speaker 2>ticks and boxes and all of that that you know,

0:25:48.165 --> 0:25:50.645
<v Speaker 2>it's a big machine around you that really holds you.

0:25:51.165 --> 0:25:55.165
<v Speaker 2>And I've never been frightened of being at the center

0:25:55.205 --> 0:25:57.605
<v Speaker 2>of that. I've never been frightened. I've never had that.

0:25:57.805 --> 0:26:00.365
<v Speaker 2>I've never had that. I always sort of known I

0:26:00.405 --> 0:26:03.205
<v Speaker 2>can do it. It's weird, but I've always kind of thought, Okay,

0:26:03.205 --> 0:26:04.485
<v Speaker 2>what do you need from me? I can always come

0:26:04.565 --> 0:26:05.965
<v Speaker 2>up with the story.

0:26:07.205 --> 0:26:10.525
<v Speaker 1>After the break, Abby explains what happened when Jake woke

0:26:10.605 --> 0:26:16.485
<v Speaker 1>up from his coma and didn't recognize her. Do you

0:26:16.485 --> 0:26:18.685
<v Speaker 1>remember the day that he woke up or is it

0:26:18.765 --> 0:26:21.005
<v Speaker 1>not that clear?

0:26:21.685 --> 0:26:24.725
<v Speaker 2>I remember this little bit. So I remember the eye

0:26:24.765 --> 0:26:28.685
<v Speaker 2>opening and closing. I remember I had a great friend

0:26:28.725 --> 0:26:31.925
<v Speaker 2>who's who knew a barber. And the other thing is

0:26:31.965 --> 0:26:34.045
<v Speaker 2>the growing of the hair. You know, all those things

0:26:34.045 --> 0:26:36.565
<v Speaker 2>that we keep secret from our partners, who knew how

0:26:36.645 --> 0:26:39.045
<v Speaker 2>much hair grew in the oddest places. So Jake had

0:26:39.045 --> 0:26:40.845
<v Speaker 2>to be trimmed and shaved, and you know, all of

0:26:40.885 --> 0:26:43.125
<v Speaker 2>that was going And so I started to notice when

0:26:43.125 --> 0:26:46.165
<v Speaker 2>the barber came in and he'd blow the hair, Jake

0:26:46.205 --> 0:26:48.285
<v Speaker 2>would start to ruckle his nose and I realized that

0:26:48.325 --> 0:26:50.285
<v Speaker 2>he was coming up. And they kept on trying to

0:26:50.285 --> 0:26:52.085
<v Speaker 2>bring him. It was a medically induced kerna, so they

0:26:52.125 --> 0:26:54.845
<v Speaker 2>kept him trying to take off the medication. It's an

0:26:54.845 --> 0:26:58.365
<v Speaker 2>anesthetic state, and every time they took it off, he

0:26:58.405 --> 0:27:00.365
<v Speaker 2>would seizure again. So that was the issue. They weren't

0:27:00.365 --> 0:27:02.165
<v Speaker 2>sure how they were going to bring him up. But

0:27:02.525 --> 0:27:04.845
<v Speaker 2>finally they gave him the kind of wonder drug, which

0:27:04.885 --> 0:27:08.405
<v Speaker 2>was a chemotherapy joke actually, and it was an experimental

0:27:08.405 --> 0:27:10.445
<v Speaker 2>way of trying. They were trying it out and it worked,

0:27:10.485 --> 0:27:13.005
<v Speaker 2>and so the seiz ring just started to calm. So

0:27:13.125 --> 0:27:15.285
<v Speaker 2>when Jake first started to wake, it was very much

0:27:15.285 --> 0:27:17.565
<v Speaker 2>ebb and flow as they played around with the medication.

0:27:17.645 --> 0:27:19.885
<v Speaker 2>But what I really remember was he woke to a

0:27:19.925 --> 0:27:21.805
<v Speaker 2>point where his eyes were open, and the thing that

0:27:21.885 --> 0:27:25.245
<v Speaker 2>was incredibly exciting was he started to track people, which

0:27:25.365 --> 0:27:28.285
<v Speaker 2>was such a good sign that there was brain activity

0:27:28.325 --> 0:27:31.645
<v Speaker 2>there because you know, he went in for brain scans

0:27:31.685 --> 0:27:33.525
<v Speaker 2>there was a lot of vivid they called it vivid

0:27:33.525 --> 0:27:35.765
<v Speaker 2>areas of his brain. So we at that point we

0:27:35.845 --> 0:27:37.325
<v Speaker 2>knew that there was going to be some kind of

0:27:37.325 --> 0:27:40.525
<v Speaker 2>brain damage, but we didn't know to what degree. But

0:27:40.605 --> 0:27:42.445
<v Speaker 2>the tracking was a really good sign. So it started

0:27:42.445 --> 0:27:46.205
<v Speaker 2>with the tracking, and then the smile and then the

0:27:46.245 --> 0:27:48.965
<v Speaker 2>thumbs up, all of those very sort of methodical things.

0:27:49.005 --> 0:27:50.885
<v Speaker 2>But I think for me, the biggest moment was I

0:27:50.925 --> 0:27:53.445
<v Speaker 2>came in and suddenly there was a speech and language

0:27:53.445 --> 0:27:56.125
<v Speaker 2>woman there and he was now by this point sitting

0:27:56.205 --> 0:27:58.325
<v Speaker 2>up and he had to track eotomy so he couldn't

0:27:58.365 --> 0:28:00.925
<v Speaker 2>speak at that point. You had to do various things

0:28:01.045 --> 0:28:03.365
<v Speaker 2>so he could sort of do a growl. But they

0:28:03.405 --> 0:28:05.845
<v Speaker 2>were starting to work on him eating and that was when,

0:28:05.885 --> 0:28:09.965
<v Speaker 2>and that seemed to happen incredibly quickly. All this sort

0:28:09.965 --> 0:28:11.405
<v Speaker 2>of very bad he was. You know, I remember this

0:28:11.525 --> 0:28:13.725
<v Speaker 2>firs thing watching me to strawberry yogurt, and she said,

0:28:13.725 --> 0:28:17.165
<v Speaker 2>would you like to speak now, Jake, And he was like, yeah,

0:28:17.405 --> 0:28:20.565
<v Speaker 2>I'd like to speak. And that was just like, oh

0:28:20.605 --> 0:28:24.125
<v Speaker 2>my god, because not only was he didn't sound like him,

0:28:24.205 --> 0:28:27.605
<v Speaker 2>he sounded like a sort of North London like wide boy,

0:28:27.805 --> 0:28:31.525
<v Speaker 2>like his boys had gone very light, that very London.

0:28:32.045 --> 0:28:34.165
<v Speaker 2>So he that was odd, you know. So there were

0:28:34.205 --> 0:28:36.845
<v Speaker 2>all of these sort of little oddities. But as a family,

0:28:36.885 --> 0:28:39.405
<v Speaker 2>I think we were sort of going, hey, Jake, it's us.

0:28:39.445 --> 0:28:41.845
<v Speaker 2>And of course he was very sweet. He was a

0:28:41.925 --> 0:28:44.205
<v Speaker 2>little bit like a bear waking up, so he was

0:28:44.565 --> 0:28:46.685
<v Speaker 2>He would smile at the children and I've got videos

0:28:46.725 --> 0:28:49.285
<v Speaker 2>of in a Mabel singing to him at that point

0:28:49.325 --> 0:28:51.725
<v Speaker 2>he would just smile. There was lots of nonverbal but

0:28:51.805 --> 0:28:53.765
<v Speaker 2>as he started to speak a little bit, we started

0:28:53.805 --> 0:28:57.925
<v Speaker 2>to get a few words, and you know, I'd say

0:28:58.045 --> 0:29:01.005
<v Speaker 2>that went on for about sort of two three weeks

0:29:01.005 --> 0:29:03.125
<v Speaker 2>of just sort of coming to and we were able

0:29:03.125 --> 0:29:05.365
<v Speaker 2>to start to take him out in a wheelchair and

0:29:05.405 --> 0:29:07.125
<v Speaker 2>then they removed his trek. Heot to me, he came

0:29:07.125 --> 0:29:11.565
<v Speaker 2>off the ventilator, and it was amazing. I think we

0:29:11.565 --> 0:29:13.365
<v Speaker 2>were all like, oh my gosh, he's here. We could

0:29:13.405 --> 0:29:16.285
<v Speaker 2>see he was there, but I also could see there

0:29:16.285 --> 0:29:18.685
<v Speaker 2>was something profoundly different in him. The way he looked

0:29:18.725 --> 0:29:20.845
<v Speaker 2>at me. I just thought, there's something not right here.

0:29:22.445 --> 0:29:25.645
<v Speaker 2>So there was a sort of struck at you, a

0:29:25.685 --> 0:29:31.925
<v Speaker 2>combination of at times completely blank, very quizzical, and often irritated.

0:29:33.125 --> 0:29:35.285
<v Speaker 2>And at first I thought it was a general thing,

0:29:35.685 --> 0:29:37.805
<v Speaker 2>but then I started to notice the delight in which

0:29:37.845 --> 0:29:40.925
<v Speaker 2>he greeted his parents, you know, with a smile, or

0:29:40.925 --> 0:29:46.685
<v Speaker 2>I hate dad. Hey. He wouldn't use my name, he'd

0:29:46.725 --> 0:29:48.845
<v Speaker 2>go Hi like that to me. He was just off

0:29:48.925 --> 0:29:51.885
<v Speaker 2>with me. He wasn't warm, And I remember one day

0:29:51.885 --> 0:29:53.125
<v Speaker 2>I went to kiss him on the lips and he

0:29:53.245 --> 0:29:58.485
<v Speaker 2>was like that. And then there was a key moment

0:29:58.565 --> 0:30:03.085
<v Speaker 2>where a friend came in. Jacob plays the ukulelean. He

0:30:03.085 --> 0:30:05.885
<v Speaker 2>plays the ukule. He brought his ukulelean. I went Jamie's

0:30:05.885 --> 0:30:07.645
<v Speaker 2>coming to see you, and he went, great, did you

0:30:07.645 --> 0:30:10.085
<v Speaker 2>wait outside? Keys? Could you wait out? And I felt

0:30:10.165 --> 0:30:13.285
<v Speaker 2>something was very off. So there were just these little

0:30:13.325 --> 0:30:15.205
<v Speaker 2>things where it's like something's not right here.

0:30:16.125 --> 0:30:19.925
<v Speaker 1>And when did you realize that not only was something

0:30:20.165 --> 0:30:22.925
<v Speaker 1>not right, but it was really really wrong.

0:30:23.925 --> 0:30:26.845
<v Speaker 2>When it came to you, I'd filmed him one day

0:30:26.965 --> 0:30:28.965
<v Speaker 2>we were all outside. We'd taken him we bought our dog.

0:30:29.085 --> 0:30:30.805
<v Speaker 2>The joy of him seeing our dog. We have a

0:30:30.845 --> 0:30:33.405
<v Speaker 2>really lovely dog called Styler. It was kind of a

0:30:33.485 --> 0:30:36.805
<v Speaker 2>key character in the book. And he was so overjoyed

0:30:36.845 --> 0:30:39.085
<v Speaker 2>to see the dog, and everyone was like, isn't this amazing?

0:30:39.125 --> 0:30:41.405
<v Speaker 2>And I there's one of two things I'm filming him.

0:30:41.405 --> 0:30:42.765
<v Speaker 2>And the first thing is that I'm talking to him

0:30:42.805 --> 0:30:45.165
<v Speaker 2>like he's a child. It mortifies me now. But the

0:30:45.205 --> 0:30:47.285
<v Speaker 2>second thing is whenever I say, hey, Jake, isn't it great,

0:30:47.325 --> 0:30:49.205
<v Speaker 2>he turns and looks at me and he looks straight

0:30:49.245 --> 0:30:53.685
<v Speaker 2>at the camera and it's like and I'm like, something's

0:30:53.725 --> 0:30:56.485
<v Speaker 2>not right. And then it really distilled on Valentine's Day.

0:30:56.485 --> 0:30:58.165
<v Speaker 2>I went in on Valentine's Day and I bought him

0:30:58.165 --> 0:31:00.965
<v Speaker 2>a really cheesy red cell phone heart and I tied

0:31:01.005 --> 0:31:02.645
<v Speaker 2>it to the end of his bed. And I talk

0:31:02.685 --> 0:31:06.165
<v Speaker 2>about this, but actually the nurses had very sweetly bought

0:31:06.205 --> 0:31:08.325
<v Speaker 2>everybody these really sort of cheap red roses, you know,

0:31:08.365 --> 0:31:09.645
<v Speaker 2>the kind of thing you get on ahole day. And

0:31:09.725 --> 0:31:11.805
<v Speaker 2>she was like, j J, give your wife, give your

0:31:11.845 --> 0:31:15.765
<v Speaker 2>wife a rose. And he said, she's not my wife.

0:31:16.325 --> 0:31:18.165
<v Speaker 2>And in that moment, I went, well, actually's kind of right,

0:31:18.205 --> 0:31:20.125
<v Speaker 2>because you know I'm his girlfriend, I mean, his partner,

0:31:20.205 --> 0:31:22.405
<v Speaker 2>not a wor you know, it's the constant game I'm playing.

0:31:22.485 --> 0:31:23.445
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because you weren't married.

0:31:23.565 --> 0:31:25.485
<v Speaker 2>I weren't married. But very quickly I went, what do

0:31:25.525 --> 0:31:27.565
<v Speaker 2>you mean? And I started to ask questions and you went.

0:31:28.205 --> 0:31:29.525
<v Speaker 2>I said, do you know how? He says, I don't

0:31:29.525 --> 0:31:31.405
<v Speaker 2>know who you are. I don't know how you're fooling everyone.

0:31:32.205 --> 0:31:34.405
<v Speaker 2>That became the first and I was like, where is Abby?

0:31:34.485 --> 0:31:38.245
<v Speaker 2>He says, you're not Abbi Morgan? And I said, well,

0:31:38.685 --> 0:31:40.845
<v Speaker 2>where is Abbi Morgan? Then he went, and she's gone.

0:31:41.045 --> 0:31:43.365
<v Speaker 2>She's got a new life with someone else. So he

0:31:43.445 --> 0:31:47.165
<v Speaker 2>did this thing called fabulation, which is where if you're

0:31:47.205 --> 0:31:49.445
<v Speaker 2>not sure of your you know, it often comes out

0:31:49.445 --> 0:31:50.885
<v Speaker 2>of you know, if you've gone through any kind of

0:31:50.885 --> 0:31:53.685
<v Speaker 2>brain injury, car accident, you've got gaps in your memory,

0:31:53.765 --> 0:31:55.845
<v Speaker 2>so you fabulate. Your brain tries to make sense, so

0:31:55.885 --> 0:31:58.325
<v Speaker 2>it tells itself stories. So the story he told himself

0:31:58.445 --> 0:32:01.045
<v Speaker 2>was that I had I had left him, and that

0:32:01.125 --> 0:32:04.085
<v Speaker 2>he was now living in an apartment overlooking Hampstead Heath.

0:32:04.085 --> 0:32:06.045
<v Speaker 2>And it's quite funny because Jake and I both have

0:32:06.085 --> 0:32:08.685
<v Speaker 2>a dream of having an apartment overlooking Hampstead Heath. So

0:32:08.685 --> 0:32:11.525
<v Speaker 2>in this memory, he'd already gone there, he'd moved and

0:32:11.565 --> 0:32:13.645
<v Speaker 2>he was loving it, and I had run off with

0:32:13.725 --> 0:32:16.605
<v Speaker 2>someone else, and I was I had a new life

0:32:16.645 --> 0:32:20.445
<v Speaker 2>for someone else, and so that, you know, at first,

0:32:20.525 --> 0:32:22.685
<v Speaker 2>it was just incredulous. I mean, I think I remember

0:32:22.685 --> 0:32:24.725
<v Speaker 2>I started to shake and I talk. It felt like

0:32:24.725 --> 0:32:28.205
<v Speaker 2>the subway was underneath me. I remember driving in the

0:32:28.205 --> 0:32:30.365
<v Speaker 2>same to my sister. My sister called dog because I'm

0:32:30.405 --> 0:32:32.325
<v Speaker 2>the same dogs. He doesn't know who I am. And

0:32:32.365 --> 0:32:34.325
<v Speaker 2>you know that can't be true, and that's not true.

0:32:34.365 --> 0:32:36.645
<v Speaker 2>It's really not true. And of course that's everyone's natural

0:32:36.645 --> 0:32:39.925
<v Speaker 2>reaction because they feel huge pain for you. It's so bizarre.

0:32:40.285 --> 0:32:42.325
<v Speaker 2>It's such a cliche, which is what I talk about.

0:32:42.365 --> 0:32:44.365
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's such a bloody cliche. It's such a

0:32:44.525 --> 0:32:48.725
<v Speaker 2>It felt like a bad, bad plot twist, but it's

0:32:48.765 --> 0:32:51.285
<v Speaker 2>out of body again and that adrenaline picks in again,

0:32:51.325 --> 0:32:53.245
<v Speaker 2>and you're like, it's surreal. It's surreal.

0:32:53.685 --> 0:32:56.125
<v Speaker 1>But it's not even a cliche, because a cliche is

0:32:56.165 --> 0:32:59.565
<v Speaker 1>like something that you've heard so many times.

0:32:59.605 --> 0:33:02.205
<v Speaker 2>I suppose it's a movie trope. It's a movie trope.

0:33:02.245 --> 0:33:04.925
<v Speaker 1>Well, the movie trope is that he wakes up and

0:33:04.965 --> 0:33:08.045
<v Speaker 1>they don't remember anyone, no anything or who they are, right,

0:33:08.125 --> 0:33:11.285
<v Speaker 1>So like amnesia. I am understand, but I've never heard

0:33:11.325 --> 0:33:15.405
<v Speaker 1>of someone selectively forgetting Yeah, one person.

0:33:15.565 --> 0:33:18.445
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it's a very That's the next book because

0:33:18.445 --> 0:33:21.605
<v Speaker 2>I think there's something really interesting. I mean, what became

0:33:21.645 --> 0:33:23.925
<v Speaker 2>apparent was that, and it was really my son. My

0:33:24.045 --> 0:33:26.605
<v Speaker 2>son was the kind of key to this, because you know,

0:33:26.765 --> 0:33:29.205
<v Speaker 2>I was known as doctor Google and it's a gift

0:33:29.245 --> 0:33:31.445
<v Speaker 2>I had passed on to my son because he said, Mom,

0:33:31.445 --> 0:33:34.485
<v Speaker 2>if you had this thing called capgra delusion And I

0:33:34.565 --> 0:33:36.805
<v Speaker 2>was like no, and he went, it's it's where there's

0:33:36.845 --> 0:33:41.365
<v Speaker 2>a severance between the visual and the emotional identity. So

0:33:41.405 --> 0:33:43.845
<v Speaker 2>what happens is when we look at somebody, we not

0:33:43.925 --> 0:33:46.325
<v Speaker 2>only go oh, yes, it's it's Mia Hi.

0:33:46.445 --> 0:33:46.885
<v Speaker 1>How are you?

0:33:47.165 --> 0:33:49.045
<v Speaker 2>We go oh yeah, I love that, I love her.

0:33:49.085 --> 0:33:51.405
<v Speaker 2>I've got that I have a feeling towards you. With

0:33:51.525 --> 0:33:55.285
<v Speaker 2>Capra that that becomes severed, and it's often focused on

0:33:55.365 --> 0:33:59.045
<v Speaker 2>a particular relationship. It's often focused on someone you're close to.

0:33:59.045 --> 0:34:00.205
<v Speaker 2>It can be on a house, it can be on

0:34:00.205 --> 0:34:03.605
<v Speaker 2>a dog, and in this case it's it's called the

0:34:03.645 --> 0:34:06.565
<v Speaker 2>syndrome of the impostors or the delusion of doubles, and

0:34:06.605 --> 0:34:09.125
<v Speaker 2>it's the belief that the person it's not that I

0:34:09.125 --> 0:34:12.005
<v Speaker 2>did exist, it's not that they don't believe that I exist,

0:34:12.045 --> 0:34:14.765
<v Speaker 2>it's that that person has been replaced by an impostor.

0:34:14.845 --> 0:34:18.405
<v Speaker 2>So to Jacob, I was an impostor. Yeah, it's surreal,

0:34:18.565 --> 0:34:21.445
<v Speaker 2>it's it was, I mean, so that was It was

0:34:21.485 --> 0:34:24.285
<v Speaker 2>really Jesse and it was incredible to kind of get that.

0:34:24.325 --> 0:34:26.485
<v Speaker 2>And I spoke to the psychiatrists. He said, well, look,

0:34:26.485 --> 0:34:28.685
<v Speaker 2>it's really unusual to get this out of en caphalitis.

0:34:29.085 --> 0:34:32.085
<v Speaker 2>It's often found in dementia cases, you know, different kinds

0:34:32.085 --> 0:34:34.285
<v Speaker 2>of dementia, but it's very unusual with someone of Jake's

0:34:34.285 --> 0:34:36.525
<v Speaker 2>age to get it, and it often comes out of

0:34:36.605 --> 0:34:38.605
<v Speaker 2>if you've had a brain injury as a result of

0:34:38.605 --> 0:34:41.405
<v Speaker 2>a car crash. It would be very unusual in the

0:34:41.405 --> 0:34:43.925
<v Speaker 2>result of en caphealitis. Subsequently, I have heard of it happening,

0:34:44.005 --> 0:34:47.365
<v Speaker 2>but it is very rare. So when I actually sort

0:34:47.365 --> 0:34:49.245
<v Speaker 2>of approached the psychiatrist, said what the hell do we

0:34:49.245 --> 0:34:52.045
<v Speaker 2>do about this? Because they said one of two things.

0:34:52.085 --> 0:34:54.885
<v Speaker 2>They said, well, we work on a think called theory

0:34:54.965 --> 0:34:57.365
<v Speaker 2>A theory B. So theory A is you're absolute right, Jake,

0:34:57.445 --> 0:35:00.005
<v Speaker 2>one hundred percent. This is not Abby Morgan, your partner,

0:35:00.485 --> 0:35:03.245
<v Speaker 2>not your wife, your partner. But theory B is we

0:35:03.325 --> 0:35:05.405
<v Speaker 2>can never be one hundred percent sure of anything. So

0:35:05.445 --> 0:35:07.885
<v Speaker 2>let's say ninety nine percent she's not Abby Morgan. But

0:35:07.965 --> 0:35:10.125
<v Speaker 2>let's just say this one percent. Can you take this

0:35:10.285 --> 0:35:13.205
<v Speaker 2>a one percent possibility? And the idea is every day

0:35:13.445 --> 0:35:16.405
<v Speaker 2>you slowly build, so you two percent five percent temper

0:35:16.405 --> 0:35:19.485
<v Speaker 2>So the ideas you start to tip the balance of rationale.

0:35:19.725 --> 0:35:21.885
<v Speaker 2>And the second thing is if it doesn't go within

0:35:21.925 --> 0:35:25.005
<v Speaker 2>three and a half months, it's unlikely to go. It's here.

0:35:25.645 --> 0:35:28.045
<v Speaker 2>So there was a sort of pressure so we all went,

0:35:28.125 --> 0:35:30.485
<v Speaker 2>you know, in the initial it was like, okay, yep,

0:35:30.605 --> 0:35:34.605
<v Speaker 2>we will we'll do this thing. We'll do the theory

0:35:34.645 --> 0:35:36.445
<v Speaker 2>O theory B. And it wasn't just me that was

0:35:36.445 --> 0:35:39.285
<v Speaker 2>finding it very Difficultviously, my children found it incredibly upsetting.

0:35:39.525 --> 0:35:42.165
<v Speaker 2>Jake's family found it. My family found it really difficult.

0:35:42.645 --> 0:35:45.125
<v Speaker 2>You know. So there was a day where I'd photocopied

0:35:45.245 --> 0:35:47.445
<v Speaker 2>we had to do a book. Hi, my name's Jacob.

0:35:47.845 --> 0:35:49.445
<v Speaker 2>We made a book for him. They said, make a book.

0:35:49.445 --> 0:35:51.245
<v Speaker 2>So you can start to read about his like, my

0:35:51.365 --> 0:35:54.085
<v Speaker 2>name's Jacob, I love football, I have a son called Jesse,

0:35:54.165 --> 0:35:57.085
<v Speaker 2>a daughter called Mabel. My partner's name is Abby. And

0:35:57.125 --> 0:35:58.885
<v Speaker 2>every time he saw that photo of me, he'd just

0:35:58.925 --> 0:36:01.845
<v Speaker 2>sweep over. And then I bought him lots of photos

0:36:01.885 --> 0:36:03.525
<v Speaker 2>of all the family to put around so you could

0:36:03.565 --> 0:36:06.045
<v Speaker 2>look at all the family members. And I came in

0:36:06.085 --> 0:36:08.325
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, where's my photo and they said, look,

0:36:08.485 --> 0:36:10.405
<v Speaker 2>really sorry, we have to it right behind the Birdie

0:36:10.405 --> 0:36:14.165
<v Speaker 2>doesn't want to look at it. So we had all

0:36:14.205 --> 0:36:17.805
<v Speaker 2>of that going on, and also I just started to

0:36:17.805 --> 0:36:20.605
<v Speaker 2>get pissed off on board with it. So I just

0:36:20.765 --> 0:36:23.365
<v Speaker 2>start of went, I mean, it's laughable some of the

0:36:23.445 --> 0:36:25.925
<v Speaker 2>videos I've got. So I'm coming in and I'm going, hi, Jake,

0:36:25.965 --> 0:36:27.605
<v Speaker 2>it's Abbey. Went no, it's not Abby, and I went,

0:36:27.765 --> 0:36:28.845
<v Speaker 2>yes it is. No it's not.

0:36:29.005 --> 0:36:31.325
<v Speaker 3>Yes it is no, it's not. Okay, let's agree to differ.

0:36:31.605 --> 0:36:33.845
<v Speaker 3>So we did all of that version. Oh my god,

0:36:33.925 --> 0:36:35.525
<v Speaker 3>I mean, it went on with the bat and forth.

0:36:35.525 --> 0:36:38.925
<v Speaker 3>But the other thing we would do would be I

0:36:38.925 --> 0:36:40.525
<v Speaker 3>would go, my Abbe Morgan today.

0:36:40.285 --> 0:36:42.445
<v Speaker 2>And he went, you're definitely not Abbi Morgan, and so

0:36:42.525 --> 0:36:45.205
<v Speaker 2>I loved that, even though he would be At first

0:36:45.245 --> 0:36:48.365
<v Speaker 2>he was very resistant to me. He then started to go.

0:36:48.845 --> 0:36:51.045
<v Speaker 2>I came one day and he said, you're working for

0:36:51.085 --> 0:36:54.725
<v Speaker 2>the state, aren't you? And I went yeah. He said,

0:36:55.125 --> 0:36:57.085
<v Speaker 2>why else would you be so interested in my You know,

0:36:57.125 --> 0:37:00.325
<v Speaker 2>we had various conversations which I talk around the children,

0:37:00.365 --> 0:37:02.645
<v Speaker 2>but he said I think you must be working for

0:37:02.685 --> 0:37:04.085
<v Speaker 2>the state and I went, yeah, I've come to work

0:37:04.085 --> 0:37:06.485
<v Speaker 2>for the state and he said, I said, is that okay?

0:37:06.485 --> 0:37:08.365
<v Speaker 2>He said yeah. I said I'm here for the state

0:37:08.365 --> 0:37:09.725
<v Speaker 2>and said, so that's where you held help me and

0:37:09.765 --> 0:37:11.885
<v Speaker 2>the kids, And I went, yeah, yeah, that's where I am.

0:37:11.965 --> 0:37:13.805
<v Speaker 2>So that became why we settled.

0:37:13.845 --> 0:37:16.725
<v Speaker 1>Which did that feel like a betrayal though of yourself?

0:37:16.805 --> 0:37:19.925
<v Speaker 1>Like did you want to just argue with him all

0:37:19.965 --> 0:37:22.445
<v Speaker 1>the time, like to say, yeah, I work for the state?

0:37:22.565 --> 0:37:23.925
<v Speaker 1>I mean, did you well?

0:37:24.605 --> 0:37:26.245
<v Speaker 2>One of two things I kept on thinking, this is

0:37:26.285 --> 0:37:29.445
<v Speaker 2>such great material, this is so funny. The other thing

0:37:29.485 --> 0:37:32.325
<v Speaker 2>was like this is I was generally found it funny.

0:37:32.725 --> 0:37:35.165
<v Speaker 2>I was also there was two things that was funny

0:37:35.205 --> 0:37:37.685
<v Speaker 2>and hysteria or running one. And the hysteria was to

0:37:37.725 --> 0:37:42.325
<v Speaker 2>do with being really effing frightened because it's very it's deeply,

0:37:42.885 --> 0:37:46.885
<v Speaker 2>deeply creepy when the person you love looks at you blankly,

0:37:47.765 --> 0:37:51.165
<v Speaker 2>it's deeply creepy. So also humiliating, very humiliating, And the

0:37:51.205 --> 0:37:53.805
<v Speaker 2>biggest thing that nobody told me about this whole experience then,

0:37:54.125 --> 0:37:56.685
<v Speaker 2>even though intellectually I'm like, why the hell would you

0:37:56.685 --> 0:38:00.525
<v Speaker 2>feel like that? But emotionally, across the gamut of the

0:38:00.565 --> 0:38:04.525
<v Speaker 2>illnesses that we experienced, but particularly this humiliation was a

0:38:04.565 --> 0:38:07.005
<v Speaker 2>big part of it. And pride. And there's a great

0:38:07.085 --> 0:38:10.205
<v Speaker 2>quote by Nora Efron which is her both her parents

0:38:10.205 --> 0:38:13.405
<v Speaker 2>were writers, and her mother was the one that really

0:38:13.405 --> 0:38:16.365
<v Speaker 2>coined the phrase, you know everything's copy. But what Nora

0:38:16.445 --> 0:38:18.005
<v Speaker 2>efernce ofd what I came to I was about my

0:38:18.045 --> 0:38:21.445
<v Speaker 2>mother is that she says, when you slip on a

0:38:21.525 --> 0:38:26.565
<v Speaker 2>banana skin, people laugh, But when you write about it

0:38:26.565 --> 0:38:29.045
<v Speaker 2>and say I know I've slipped on a banana skin,

0:38:29.245 --> 0:38:31.325
<v Speaker 2>you're the one that laughs. And I think there's a

0:38:31.365 --> 0:38:33.285
<v Speaker 2>truth to that. Is that I had to go, I

0:38:33.325 --> 0:38:36.365
<v Speaker 2>know what's happening here, guys, because I think there's nothing

0:38:36.445 --> 0:38:39.925
<v Speaker 2>more humiliating than being told to leave the room. Because

0:38:40.725 --> 0:38:43.725
<v Speaker 2>you know, some very sweet ladies arrived to read the

0:38:43.765 --> 0:38:47.085
<v Speaker 2>book that You've given him for Christmas to him, and

0:38:47.205 --> 0:38:49.085
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't want you there because you're a stranger, but

0:38:49.165 --> 0:38:51.525
<v Speaker 2>she's someone he's really got to know. I mean, that's

0:38:51.565 --> 0:38:53.725
<v Speaker 2>where you start to feelucky, you said, lover, That's where

0:38:53.725 --> 0:38:56.245
<v Speaker 2>you start to feel this weird jealousy. And it definitely,

0:38:56.685 --> 0:39:00.245
<v Speaker 2>you know, I defy anyone not to have to manage

0:39:00.365 --> 0:39:03.285
<v Speaker 2>huge tensions. I mean, Jade's family were pretty bloody amazing

0:39:03.325 --> 0:39:07.325
<v Speaker 2>because I was raging and I was very territorial over him.

0:39:07.645 --> 0:39:09.165
<v Speaker 2>But the biggest thing I felt was I had to

0:39:09.525 --> 0:39:11.325
<v Speaker 2>a way to stay in the room with him, because

0:39:11.365 --> 0:39:15.205
<v Speaker 2>my worry was I was losing not only you know,

0:39:15.325 --> 0:39:17.245
<v Speaker 2>Heedless his sense of identity for me, but I was

0:39:17.285 --> 0:39:20.285
<v Speaker 2>losing the sense of my identity. And that was really frightening.

0:39:20.325 --> 0:39:22.765
<v Speaker 2>And somehow, if I didn't keep staying in the room

0:39:22.805 --> 0:39:25.765
<v Speaker 2>and chipping away and almost the act of resistance in

0:39:25.765 --> 0:39:27.365
<v Speaker 2>a way, do I was to go, yeah, you're right,

0:39:27.405 --> 0:39:29.405
<v Speaker 2>I work for the state. You believe whatever you want.

0:39:29.525 --> 0:39:31.445
<v Speaker 2>I know who I am. If that's going to shut

0:39:31.485 --> 0:39:33.725
<v Speaker 2>you up, you believe in the state, I will come

0:39:33.805 --> 0:39:35.365
<v Speaker 2>in and still be the lady from the state. And

0:39:35.405 --> 0:39:36.765
<v Speaker 2>whilst I was there, I was able to go, well,

0:39:36.765 --> 0:39:38.365
<v Speaker 2>there's someone from the state. Let's go out and have

0:39:38.445 --> 0:39:40.605
<v Speaker 2>tea as for someone from the state. Let me tell

0:39:40.645 --> 0:39:42.645
<v Speaker 2>you all the things I know about you, Jay, So

0:39:42.805 --> 0:39:45.685
<v Speaker 2>I would like one day, I said, quiz me. Ask

0:39:45.765 --> 0:39:48.725
<v Speaker 2>me anything you want about yourself and I'll know the answer.

0:39:49.005 --> 0:39:50.965
<v Speaker 2>And I got every single question right. So it was like,

0:39:51.005 --> 0:39:52.965
<v Speaker 2>what was the name of my first dog? Where did

0:39:53.005 --> 0:39:57.325
<v Speaker 2>I have an accident? What's my favorite Tottenham Hotspur player? Ever?

0:39:57.725 --> 0:40:00.365
<v Speaker 2>You know? And I knew every single answer, And instead

0:40:00.365 --> 0:40:02.005
<v Speaker 2>of looking at me like, oh my gosh, I can't

0:40:02.005 --> 0:40:05.125
<v Speaker 2>believe it it's you, he'd be like, how you doing that.

0:40:05.445 --> 0:40:07.965
<v Speaker 2>It was always like, there's a trick. There's a trick here.

0:40:08.045 --> 0:40:11.405
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how you're doing that. So yeah, it

0:40:11.445 --> 0:40:15.325
<v Speaker 2>was peculiar. It was really really peculiar and very eroding

0:40:15.365 --> 0:40:19.285
<v Speaker 2>and at times absolutely heartbreaking, really really, but there was

0:40:19.325 --> 0:40:21.605
<v Speaker 2>also something that very key happened in that, which was

0:40:21.685 --> 0:40:24.285
<v Speaker 2>it stopped being about me getting Jade back for me

0:40:25.125 --> 0:40:33.045
<v Speaker 2>and I just this is where I get emotional. He's

0:40:33.125 --> 0:40:36.605
<v Speaker 2>such a great person. He's such a not just a

0:40:36.605 --> 0:40:40.165
<v Speaker 2>great father, not just a great husband or a friend.

0:40:40.245 --> 0:40:44.605
<v Speaker 2>He's such a great guy. And I needed him to

0:40:44.605 --> 0:40:47.805
<v Speaker 2>get back in the world to get and that became

0:40:47.845 --> 0:40:50.285
<v Speaker 2>bigger than me. That became bigger than whether he knew

0:40:50.365 --> 0:40:51.685
<v Speaker 2>me or not. I just needed to make sure he

0:40:51.765 --> 0:40:54.885
<v Speaker 2>got back out in the world again because I just

0:40:55.485 --> 0:40:58.165
<v Speaker 2>and I call it the hum of love. He drives

0:40:58.165 --> 0:40:59.845
<v Speaker 2>it at the wall. You know, we have loads of things,

0:40:59.885 --> 0:41:03.045
<v Speaker 2>you know, antisocial, social. I want to party, he doesn't.

0:41:03.245 --> 0:41:04.685
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to party, he does. You know, I've

0:41:04.685 --> 0:41:06.485
<v Speaker 2>got loads of that shit. We've got all the tensions.

0:41:06.605 --> 0:41:10.245
<v Speaker 2>But irrespective of whether Jake's my part, I want to

0:41:10.245 --> 0:41:11.765
<v Speaker 2>look across the room and go good. I was glad.

0:41:11.805 --> 0:41:14.205
<v Speaker 2>I spent eighteen years with that guy. I used to

0:41:14.245 --> 0:41:17.365
<v Speaker 2>know him, I loved him, I helped getting better. I

0:41:17.405 --> 0:41:19.845
<v Speaker 2>helped getting better as one element, and he's out in

0:41:19.845 --> 0:41:22.245
<v Speaker 2>the world again. And so that became my motivator, and

0:41:22.285 --> 0:41:24.565
<v Speaker 2>it was incredibly liberating when I let go of trying

0:41:24.605 --> 0:41:27.645
<v Speaker 2>to get Jake back for myself. You know, the day

0:41:27.725 --> 0:41:31.165
<v Speaker 2>Jake collapsed is the day that my relationship that I

0:41:31.205 --> 0:41:34.325
<v Speaker 2>had with Jake ended, and the day Jake started to

0:41:34.325 --> 0:41:36.885
<v Speaker 2>properly recover is when my new relationship started with him.

0:41:36.885 --> 0:41:39.645
<v Speaker 2>But it's not the same relationship, and it comes right

0:41:39.685 --> 0:41:42.165
<v Speaker 2>back to and I've not said this to actually anyone,

0:41:42.165 --> 0:41:43.845
<v Speaker 2>but I don't really care, because i'd say to Jake

0:41:43.885 --> 0:41:48.125
<v Speaker 2>as well. But I can forgive what's happened, but I

0:41:48.165 --> 0:41:51.405
<v Speaker 2>can never forget that it was me that he didn't remember.

0:41:52.205 --> 0:41:55.885
<v Speaker 2>And I still circle where that is. And I you know,

0:41:55.925 --> 0:41:58.045
<v Speaker 2>when you lean into side, it's like a trust exercise.

0:41:58.125 --> 0:41:59.805
<v Speaker 2>If you fall back into the arms of someone, you

0:41:59.845 --> 0:42:02.005
<v Speaker 2>have to know they can still hold you. And I

0:42:02.085 --> 0:42:04.605
<v Speaker 2>don't know if I will ever truly be able to

0:42:04.725 --> 0:42:10.485
<v Speaker 2>trust again that on a really profound level, does Jake

0:42:10.765 --> 0:42:14.365
<v Speaker 2>really really truly know who I am now? And why

0:42:14.485 --> 0:42:17.205
<v Speaker 2>was it me? And it's that's something I'll circle forever,

0:42:17.365 --> 0:42:20.285
<v Speaker 2>you know. So there was an ending somewhere in the

0:42:20.325 --> 0:42:21.965
<v Speaker 2>middle of that, and there was a moment where I

0:42:22.005 --> 0:42:24.285
<v Speaker 2>had to go, I have to let go of trying

0:42:24.325 --> 0:42:28.245
<v Speaker 2>to get him back for me, and I have to

0:42:28.285 --> 0:42:30.445
<v Speaker 2>start to try and get him back because he's worth

0:42:31.245 --> 0:42:33.645
<v Speaker 2>restoring and helping getting back to the best he can be.

0:42:33.925 --> 0:42:36.325
<v Speaker 2>So that that really became my focus, and I became

0:42:36.325 --> 0:42:39.005
<v Speaker 2>a I hope, a much nicer person. Then I stopped

0:42:39.045 --> 0:42:41.725
<v Speaker 2>growling at everybody. I mean, I was pretty bloody awful

0:42:41.925 --> 0:42:47.165
<v Speaker 2>at times. I was Growley and I was relentless. I

0:42:47.205 --> 0:42:49.525
<v Speaker 2>was relent you know, you know when widows throw themselves

0:42:49.525 --> 0:42:53.165
<v Speaker 2>on coffins. I understood that. I understood that I would

0:42:53.165 --> 0:42:56.805
<v Speaker 2>sort of throw myself across Jake because the sort of

0:42:57.325 --> 0:42:58.685
<v Speaker 2>you know when you have a baby and you almost

0:42:58.685 --> 0:43:00.645
<v Speaker 2>want to eat him up, You always want to eat

0:43:00.645 --> 0:43:02.925
<v Speaker 2>you know, the baby. I felt like that about Jacob.

0:43:03.005 --> 0:43:05.885
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to consume him. That was how much I needed.

0:43:06.165 --> 0:43:09.085
<v Speaker 2>That was how much my connection was. And when I

0:43:09.485 --> 0:43:11.445
<v Speaker 2>nice step back and went, you've got to let go

0:43:11.485 --> 0:43:14.285
<v Speaker 2>of that connection. You've got to start to be part

0:43:14.325 --> 0:43:16.245
<v Speaker 2>of the collective that's going to help get him better,

0:43:16.525 --> 0:43:20.605
<v Speaker 2>then that became it became much more manageable as an experience.

0:43:20.685 --> 0:43:23.165
<v Speaker 2>I think I haven't ready spoken about that before, but

0:43:23.205 --> 0:43:23.645
<v Speaker 2>that's that.

0:43:23.805 --> 0:43:29.725
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I told you this story was incredible and that

0:43:29.765 --> 0:43:32.085
<v Speaker 1>there were plot twists and there are more for Mum

0:43:32.165 --> 0:43:34.765
<v Speaker 1>and Maya subscribers to listen to right now.

0:43:35.005 --> 0:43:37.485
<v Speaker 2>It was such a bad plot twist, But you know,

0:43:37.565 --> 0:43:40.725
<v Speaker 2>I think when when when crisis and disaster happens, it

0:43:40.885 --> 0:43:42.765
<v Speaker 2>does kind of come in threes, you know, it does

0:43:42.805 --> 0:43:44.805
<v Speaker 2>you know things do you sort of I don't know

0:43:44.805 --> 0:43:47.525
<v Speaker 2>whether it's an energy thing I still think. Listen, I

0:43:47.525 --> 0:43:50.005
<v Speaker 2>think I would always have got breast cancer. Unfortunately, I

0:43:50.005 --> 0:43:52.325
<v Speaker 2>don't think it was Jake's fault, but I think a

0:43:52.365 --> 0:43:55.725
<v Speaker 2>couple of things. I think I ignored it for that

0:43:55.805 --> 0:43:57.005
<v Speaker 2>sort of nine months.

0:43:57.525 --> 0:44:00.165
<v Speaker 1>On this subscriber episode, we talk about another twist that

0:44:00.205 --> 0:44:04.645
<v Speaker 1>nobody saw coming, and even Abby agreed was a little melodramatic,

0:44:04.885 --> 0:44:08.165
<v Speaker 1>but you know, some might say overblown, except that it

0:44:08.205 --> 0:44:11.085
<v Speaker 1>actually happened. And we also talk about where things are

0:44:11.085 --> 0:44:14.485
<v Speaker 1>at now with Jacob and with their relationship. Just follow

0:44:14.525 --> 0:44:17.485
<v Speaker 1>the links in our show notes to listen. Subscribing to

0:44:17.565 --> 0:44:20.805
<v Speaker 1>Mumma Mea only costs less than six dollars a month

0:44:21.045 --> 0:44:23.965
<v Speaker 1>and you'll be supporting women's media. You can also find

0:44:24.005 --> 0:44:26.365
<v Speaker 1>Abby's book, Not a Pity Memoir by the link in

0:44:26.405 --> 0:44:30.045
<v Speaker 1>our show notes. Highly recommend that you do. It's absolutely

0:44:30.085 --> 0:44:34.365
<v Speaker 1>brilliant and heartbreaking and funny and amazing and beautifully written

0:44:34.765 --> 0:44:38.205
<v Speaker 1>because Abby is such a talented writer. And also watch

0:44:38.285 --> 0:44:41.925
<v Speaker 1>The Split now season three. I think is available on iView,

0:44:42.485 --> 0:44:47.605
<v Speaker 1>but wherever you watch it, it is truly brilliant. The

0:44:47.645 --> 0:44:51.165
<v Speaker 1>assistant producer of No Filter is Emmeline Peterson. The executive

0:44:51.205 --> 0:44:54.925
<v Speaker 1>producer is one Eliza Ratliffe and I'm Maya Friedman. Thanks

0:44:54.925 --> 0:44:57.885
<v Speaker 1>for having me in your ears. If you're looking for

0:44:57.925 --> 0:45:00.765
<v Speaker 1>something else to listen to, like and follow all of

0:45:00.805 --> 0:45:03.605
<v Speaker 1>our Muma Mea podcasts, which are currently bringing you hot

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<v Speaker 1>pod Summer one hundred hours of Summer listens from spicy

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<v Speaker 1>conversations to incredible stories fash beauty where the friends in

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<v Speaker 1>your Ear is over Summer