1 00:00:10,405 --> 00:00:15,005 Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mama Mea acknowledges 2 00:00:15,045 --> 00:00:17,685 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 3 00:00:17,765 --> 00:00:21,365 Speaker 1: is recorded on. Hello Omeya Friedman and the team at 4 00:00:21,405 --> 00:00:24,485 Speaker 1: Mumma Mea are bringing you over one hundred hours of 5 00:00:24,525 --> 00:00:27,125 Speaker 1: the best of the best from across our award winning 6 00:00:27,165 --> 00:00:31,005 Speaker 1: podcasts to give you the hot pod Summer of your dreams. 7 00:00:31,285 --> 00:00:34,165 Speaker 1: Here at No Filter, we have selected the very best 8 00:00:34,165 --> 00:00:38,645 Speaker 1: stories of human resilience, of escaping from colts and tsunamis, 9 00:00:38,765 --> 00:00:43,965 Speaker 1: of surviving in prison, surviving a landslide, surviving a broken heart, 10 00:00:44,085 --> 00:00:46,965 Speaker 1: and so much more. Today, I'm bringing you the story 11 00:00:47,085 --> 00:00:50,365 Speaker 1: of Abby Morgan, which originally aired in twenty twenty two 12 00:00:50,565 --> 00:00:54,485 Speaker 1: and is probably still one of my favorite interviews of 13 00:00:54,525 --> 00:00:58,805 Speaker 1: all time. At the heart of Abby's story is a 14 00:00:58,805 --> 00:01:05,245 Speaker 1: love story that goes very unexpectedly in a direction that 15 00:01:05,405 --> 00:01:09,245 Speaker 1: nobody ever thinks when they say they're vows and can 16 00:01:09,645 --> 00:01:13,525 Speaker 1: to spending their life with somebody. One day, Abby's husband 17 00:01:13,765 --> 00:01:16,325 Speaker 1: woke up and did not know who she was. And 18 00:01:16,365 --> 00:01:18,245 Speaker 1: I'm just going to let her tell the rest of 19 00:01:18,285 --> 00:01:22,165 Speaker 1: the story. The extraordinary part of this, well, it's all extraordinary. 20 00:01:22,245 --> 00:01:27,125 Speaker 1: Abby's a screenwriter. She is the writer and creator of 21 00:01:27,725 --> 00:01:30,605 Speaker 1: one of my favorite TV shows of all time, The Split. 22 00:01:30,885 --> 00:01:32,885 Speaker 1: Watch that if you're looking for something to watch. It's 23 00:01:32,925 --> 00:01:36,125 Speaker 1: absolutely brilliant about these women who are this family of 24 00:01:36,165 --> 00:01:39,285 Speaker 1: women who are all divorce lawyers. And since then she 25 00:01:39,485 --> 00:01:44,525 Speaker 1: has also written a Netflix series called Eric, which stars 26 00:01:44,605 --> 00:01:48,325 Speaker 1: Benedict Cumberbatch. But this story isn't about her TV shows. 27 00:01:48,365 --> 00:01:53,365 Speaker 1: It's about her own life, which is truly stranger and 28 00:01:53,405 --> 00:01:59,125 Speaker 1: more riveting than any fiction she could have written. The 29 00:01:59,165 --> 00:02:01,525 Speaker 1: last few years of Abby Morgan's life would make an 30 00:02:01,565 --> 00:02:05,285 Speaker 1: incredible TV show, although you might not really believe it 31 00:02:05,605 --> 00:02:09,485 Speaker 1: because of the plot twists, the many many plot twists, 32 00:02:10,405 --> 00:02:13,845 Speaker 1: and it all began on an ordinary day in her 33 00:02:13,965 --> 00:02:17,805 Speaker 1: ordinary house in London, where Abby lived with her very 34 00:02:17,845 --> 00:02:22,525 Speaker 1: lovely partner, Jacob and their two teenage kids and their dog. 35 00:02:24,005 --> 00:02:27,285 Speaker 1: Back then in twenty eighteen, Jacob was an actor and 36 00:02:27,325 --> 00:02:31,805 Speaker 1: Abby was a superstar screenwriter. She still is a superstar screenwriter. 37 00:02:32,325 --> 00:02:35,525 Speaker 1: She had already won Emmys and Bafter Awards for her 38 00:02:35,565 --> 00:02:38,845 Speaker 1: work writing movies like Iron Lady, which starred Meryl Streep 39 00:02:38,925 --> 00:02:43,245 Speaker 1: and my all time favorite TV show, The Split. Abby 40 00:02:43,325 --> 00:02:46,365 Speaker 1: and Jacob had been together for twenty years. They weren't 41 00:02:46,405 --> 00:02:49,525 Speaker 1: married for a bunch of reasons, but they were really solid, 42 00:02:50,445 --> 00:02:55,485 Speaker 1: which made what happened over the next few years so unimaginable. Seriously, 43 00:02:55,525 --> 00:02:57,965 Speaker 1: you could not make this up because nobody would believe you. 44 00:03:00,165 --> 00:03:02,925 Speaker 1: This is no filter. I'm Heya Friedman, and I don't 45 00:03:02,965 --> 00:03:05,045 Speaker 1: want to tell you too much about what you're about 46 00:03:05,045 --> 00:03:09,805 Speaker 1: to hear, because Abby's whole life is about storytelling and 47 00:03:09,845 --> 00:03:13,245 Speaker 1: we don't want spoilers. But here's one thing I'll tell you. 48 00:03:14,005 --> 00:03:16,685 Speaker 1: Abbie's husband woke up one day after coming out of 49 00:03:16,685 --> 00:03:20,085 Speaker 1: a coma and he didn't know who she was. He 50 00:03:20,165 --> 00:03:23,445 Speaker 1: knew everyone else, just not her. 51 00:03:24,045 --> 00:03:25,925 Speaker 2: The way he looked at me, I just thought there's 52 00:03:25,925 --> 00:03:28,965 Speaker 2: something not right here. And at first I thought it 53 00:03:28,965 --> 00:03:31,485 Speaker 2: was a general thing, but then I started to notice 54 00:03:31,485 --> 00:03:34,605 Speaker 2: the delight in which he greeted his parents, you know, 55 00:03:34,685 --> 00:03:36,165 Speaker 2: with a smile or hey dad. 56 00:03:36,205 --> 00:03:36,405 Speaker 1: Hey. 57 00:03:37,165 --> 00:03:39,725 Speaker 2: He wouldn't use my name, he'd go Hi like that 58 00:03:39,765 --> 00:03:41,285 Speaker 2: to me. He was just off with me. 59 00:03:42,285 --> 00:03:46,005 Speaker 1: Abby has written a memoir about this astonishing time in 60 00:03:46,045 --> 00:03:49,165 Speaker 1: her life. It's a story that's still unfolding, and her 61 00:03:49,165 --> 00:03:52,605 Speaker 1: book is called This Is Not a Pity Memoir. She 62 00:03:52,725 --> 00:03:55,325 Speaker 1: joined me from London to talk about it, and I 63 00:03:55,405 --> 00:03:57,725 Speaker 1: have to tell you this is one of my favorite 64 00:03:57,765 --> 00:04:01,525 Speaker 1: conversations that I've ever had on this podcast with one 65 00:04:01,565 --> 00:04:07,445 Speaker 1: of the women I admire the most. Abby, tell me 66 00:04:07,485 --> 00:04:11,965 Speaker 1: about your life before Jacob collapsed. I want to know, 67 00:04:12,845 --> 00:04:15,365 Speaker 1: you know, what was normal, like? What did normal look like? 68 00:04:16,445 --> 00:04:21,565 Speaker 2: I think normal looked like. Lived in North London. You know, 69 00:04:21,805 --> 00:04:26,845 Speaker 2: had two teenagers almost cooked fourteen and sixteen. Had been 70 00:04:26,885 --> 00:04:30,685 Speaker 2: with Jake, my partner, for god like nearly eighteen years, 71 00:04:31,045 --> 00:04:33,965 Speaker 2: and you know we'd had a very real, honest, brutal, 72 00:04:34,085 --> 00:04:39,685 Speaker 2: brilliant marriage relationship, actually partnership, and I had. I mean, 73 00:04:39,805 --> 00:04:41,765 Speaker 2: you never have a perception of yourself, really, I mean 74 00:04:41,765 --> 00:04:43,765 Speaker 2: you do if you have a glass of wine and 75 00:04:43,765 --> 00:04:45,925 Speaker 2: you start to pig yourself what we think? You know, 76 00:04:46,085 --> 00:04:48,965 Speaker 2: I've done a few films, but I never perceived myself. 77 00:04:48,965 --> 00:04:50,925 Speaker 2: I'm always looking at everyone else, going, God, that's amazing. 78 00:04:50,965 --> 00:04:52,445 Speaker 2: I love there. Well, I never put myself in that 79 00:04:52,525 --> 00:04:54,365 Speaker 2: same group. So from my point of view, I was 80 00:04:54,405 --> 00:04:58,005 Speaker 2: a jobing writer. I felt privileged, I felt lucky. 81 00:04:58,165 --> 00:05:01,805 Speaker 1: But when you say you were a jobbing writer and 82 00:05:01,845 --> 00:05:05,165 Speaker 1: you've you're very modest. I've had a few films, you've 83 00:05:05,205 --> 00:05:08,285 Speaker 1: had some extraordinary films like you wrote The Iron Lady 84 00:05:08,405 --> 00:05:12,525 Speaker 1: with Meryl Street, you had written the first season of 85 00:05:12,605 --> 00:05:15,725 Speaker 1: The Split, which had many huge success, You've done many 86 00:05:15,765 --> 00:05:20,565 Speaker 1: many other films. Did you feel like you'd derived in 87 00:05:20,605 --> 00:05:21,245 Speaker 1: your career. 88 00:05:21,445 --> 00:05:24,245 Speaker 2: Actually, the bottom line is I come from theater folk. 89 00:05:24,325 --> 00:05:26,005 Speaker 2: You know, my mum was an actress, my dad was 90 00:05:26,045 --> 00:05:28,805 Speaker 2: a TV director. So for me, it's like I'm in 91 00:05:28,845 --> 00:05:31,925 Speaker 2: the family business. And you know, I've always described as like, 92 00:05:33,005 --> 00:05:34,765 Speaker 2: you know, if you're an electrician, you know how to 93 00:05:34,805 --> 00:05:36,605 Speaker 2: rewear a plug, if you're a plumber, you know how 94 00:05:36,645 --> 00:05:38,965 Speaker 2: to unblock a sink. And so for me, the kind 95 00:05:39,005 --> 00:05:41,805 Speaker 2: of world of the business has always been I've been 96 00:05:41,845 --> 00:05:43,765 Speaker 2: realistic about it. I've known about the feast and farm, 97 00:05:43,845 --> 00:05:45,645 Speaker 2: and I grew up with that. I think one of 98 00:05:45,685 --> 00:05:48,405 Speaker 2: the things that's been most amazing for me is to 99 00:05:48,525 --> 00:05:50,685 Speaker 2: be able to go to a cashboard machine and not 100 00:05:50,725 --> 00:05:53,285 Speaker 2: get my card swallowed, because that was my growing up. 101 00:05:53,325 --> 00:05:55,645 Speaker 2: That was like praying that the cashpoint would like give 102 00:05:55,685 --> 00:05:58,485 Speaker 2: you money, you know, And so I think financial stability 103 00:05:58,525 --> 00:06:00,765 Speaker 2: for me has been far more important. And I'm not 104 00:06:00,805 --> 00:06:03,285 Speaker 2: even talking about massive wealth. You know, I probably could 105 00:06:03,285 --> 00:06:05,445 Speaker 2: have done a lot more, but I think there was 106 00:06:05,485 --> 00:06:09,285 Speaker 2: about a stability and a genuine where I think I 107 00:06:09,525 --> 00:06:12,645 Speaker 2: have arrived as I work again and again with a 108 00:06:12,765 --> 00:06:14,605 Speaker 2: very small group of people, and I've been doing that 109 00:06:14,645 --> 00:06:17,845 Speaker 2: for the last ten fifteen years, maybe longer. So I 110 00:06:17,845 --> 00:06:21,125 Speaker 2: feel like my method is very arrived, is very present, 111 00:06:21,245 --> 00:06:23,845 Speaker 2: is very centered at the heart of what I do. 112 00:06:23,925 --> 00:06:26,845 Speaker 2: So I feel very lucky that I don't write on 113 00:06:26,925 --> 00:06:29,005 Speaker 2: other people's shows. I tend to think, I want to 114 00:06:29,045 --> 00:06:31,685 Speaker 2: write this. I can pitch an idea, I can sell 115 00:06:31,725 --> 00:06:34,645 Speaker 2: an idea. I realized the privilege of that. I don't 116 00:06:34,645 --> 00:06:37,525 Speaker 2: think I appreciated that fully, but I mentor a lot 117 00:06:37,525 --> 00:06:39,525 Speaker 2: of young writers, and I see the journey they have 118 00:06:39,605 --> 00:06:41,685 Speaker 2: to go on now. So I think, from my point 119 00:06:41,725 --> 00:06:43,725 Speaker 2: of view is I did the thing I loved. I 120 00:06:43,765 --> 00:06:45,805 Speaker 2: do the thing I love. That doesn't mean as like 121 00:06:45,845 --> 00:06:47,325 Speaker 2: all of us, we don't wake up and want to 122 00:06:47,365 --> 00:06:49,565 Speaker 2: just Internet shop all day and you know, lie and 123 00:06:49,605 --> 00:06:53,765 Speaker 2: watch some Netflix crap. But I definitely felt this sense 124 00:06:53,805 --> 00:06:55,965 Speaker 2: of I was just like when I talk about my 125 00:06:56,045 --> 00:06:58,085 Speaker 2: kids were cooked, they were starting to have their own lives. 126 00:06:58,125 --> 00:07:00,525 Speaker 2: I could find some space in my day. I think 127 00:07:00,605 --> 00:07:03,285 Speaker 2: Jake and I had gone through masses of ups and downs. 128 00:07:03,445 --> 00:07:05,805 Speaker 2: I think, you know, there are all those big issues 129 00:07:05,845 --> 00:07:08,005 Speaker 2: about if you're successful and you live with someone who 130 00:07:08,205 --> 00:07:11,845 Speaker 2: takes on the chart out, I don't have the same career, 131 00:07:11,925 --> 00:07:15,365 Speaker 2: and then their career starts to happen and suddenly you're like, oh, wow, okay, 132 00:07:15,365 --> 00:07:16,725 Speaker 2: how do I use the washing machine again? 133 00:07:16,845 --> 00:07:17,045 Speaker 1: You know? 134 00:07:17,565 --> 00:07:20,485 Speaker 2: You know, we had a very nineteen fifties housewife relationship. 135 00:07:20,725 --> 00:07:22,285 Speaker 2: You know, I was very much like coming home and 136 00:07:22,285 --> 00:07:24,365 Speaker 2: having a dry martini and dinner was good. And so 137 00:07:24,845 --> 00:07:27,205 Speaker 2: there was a lot about our setup, which worked really 138 00:07:27,285 --> 00:07:30,485 Speaker 2: well for me actually, but as a result of kind 139 00:07:30,485 --> 00:07:33,245 Speaker 2: of what then happened, it really made me rethink about 140 00:07:33,285 --> 00:07:35,605 Speaker 2: where I put my value. And I think my sense 141 00:07:35,645 --> 00:07:38,325 Speaker 2: of myself, my identity was so close to my work 142 00:07:38,765 --> 00:07:40,765 Speaker 2: because it's what I know best. Words is what I 143 00:07:40,805 --> 00:07:43,365 Speaker 2: know best. You know, I talk too much. I'm not 144 00:07:43,405 --> 00:07:45,565 Speaker 2: good on silent, you know. I always feel like I 145 00:07:45,645 --> 00:07:48,365 Speaker 2: have to oversell myself. So yeah, but I think on 146 00:07:48,405 --> 00:07:51,045 Speaker 2: a basic level, I was in a pretty good place. 147 00:07:51,845 --> 00:07:54,885 Speaker 2: Jacob had multiple stroosis, so obviously that we lived with 148 00:07:54,925 --> 00:07:56,445 Speaker 2: the EBB and flow of that, but even that he 149 00:07:56,525 --> 00:08:00,085 Speaker 2: was pretty high functioning on that he was working, So yeah, 150 00:08:00,085 --> 00:08:01,365 Speaker 2: I think I was lucky. 151 00:08:01,485 --> 00:08:04,165 Speaker 1: Really, he was an actor. Yeah, you know, you talk 152 00:08:04,205 --> 00:08:08,565 Speaker 1: about the nineteen fifties housewife dynamic, but in reverse. Was 153 00:08:08,605 --> 00:08:10,285 Speaker 1: he always come to all with that? Was that a 154 00:08:10,325 --> 00:08:12,805 Speaker 1: decision that you made early on in your relationship. 155 00:08:13,565 --> 00:08:16,005 Speaker 2: It very naturally felt like that in the beginning, because 156 00:08:16,045 --> 00:08:17,765 Speaker 2: when I hit the ground with Jake, when we first 157 00:08:17,805 --> 00:08:20,525 Speaker 2: met and we had our first our son, really really 158 00:08:20,605 --> 00:08:23,005 Speaker 2: quickly with a year of being together. You know, we 159 00:08:23,045 --> 00:08:27,165 Speaker 2: had Jesse, my boy and our boy, and I was 160 00:08:27,285 --> 00:08:28,885 Speaker 2: right in the middle of shootings. I was just on 161 00:08:28,925 --> 00:08:31,485 Speaker 2: the role of like my early mid thirties, and you know, 162 00:08:31,485 --> 00:08:33,765 Speaker 2: I was starting to get the bafters and the you know, 163 00:08:33,845 --> 00:08:35,925 Speaker 2: the nods, the Golden Globe but nods and all of 164 00:08:35,925 --> 00:08:38,045 Speaker 2: that stuff. So it was very giddy. So we had 165 00:08:38,125 --> 00:08:40,365 Speaker 2: quite a giddy time. And you know, we definitely had 166 00:08:40,445 --> 00:08:42,565 Speaker 2: childcare and help at the beginning, but Jake was just 167 00:08:43,285 --> 00:08:45,965 Speaker 2: Jake loved it. Jake has always been absolutely at the 168 00:08:45,965 --> 00:08:49,125 Speaker 2: heart of the home. He's the master of fun, and 169 00:08:49,965 --> 00:08:52,445 Speaker 2: he just naturally fell into that. There were definitely days, 170 00:08:52,485 --> 00:08:54,525 Speaker 2: there were definitely months where it was difficult. I think 171 00:08:54,765 --> 00:08:57,925 Speaker 2: I defy anybody a to have you know, I think 172 00:08:57,925 --> 00:09:00,925 Speaker 2: a baby's a grenade in any relationship. But also I 173 00:09:00,965 --> 00:09:03,685 Speaker 2: think if you work in this profession, you know, and 174 00:09:03,725 --> 00:09:06,125 Speaker 2: you're suddenly you're coming home with casting tapes and you're going, 175 00:09:06,165 --> 00:09:08,045 Speaker 2: you'll look at some casting tapes and you realize that 176 00:09:08,085 --> 00:09:10,605 Speaker 2: half your friends you're looking you know, you're you're looking 177 00:09:10,605 --> 00:09:13,285 Speaker 2: at audition tapes of our friends and you're thinking, God, 178 00:09:13,325 --> 00:09:15,085 Speaker 2: you know, I can't put you forward for anything. So 179 00:09:15,365 --> 00:09:17,605 Speaker 2: there were those kind of tensions. But what no one 180 00:09:17,645 --> 00:09:19,725 Speaker 2: really tells you about a long relationship is the ebb 181 00:09:19,725 --> 00:09:21,765 Speaker 2: and flow, the highs and lows, and actually the lows 182 00:09:21,805 --> 00:09:24,485 Speaker 2: can be pretty low, but you get through those. And 183 00:09:24,565 --> 00:09:26,605 Speaker 2: so I think one of the things that we were 184 00:09:26,645 --> 00:09:28,925 Speaker 2: very brutal with each other, very direct, and we also 185 00:09:28,925 --> 00:09:31,525 Speaker 2: do a lot of marriage therapy, so when things got 186 00:09:31,525 --> 00:09:33,725 Speaker 2: we'd always we'd dive in for bits, and so we 187 00:09:33,725 --> 00:09:36,085 Speaker 2: were quite well versed. Not on a kind of deeply 188 00:09:36,165 --> 00:09:38,285 Speaker 2: organic we'd sit and stir into each other's eyes and 189 00:09:38,885 --> 00:09:41,445 Speaker 2: you know, kind of you know, hold ourselves in a 190 00:09:41,485 --> 00:09:43,885 Speaker 2: circle of gratitude. It was much more like, oh God, 191 00:09:43,925 --> 00:09:45,485 Speaker 2: we've got to go tonight. Okay, let's go. 192 00:09:45,565 --> 00:09:48,405 Speaker 1: And it was actually often it wasn't a sex week, 193 00:09:48,405 --> 00:09:49,725 Speaker 1: it wasn't a sexual It was. 194 00:09:49,685 --> 00:09:52,005 Speaker 2: Like you know, it was more like the enjoyment afterwards 195 00:09:52,005 --> 00:09:54,005 Speaker 2: where we'd go, oh my god, wasn't it funny when 196 00:09:54,005 --> 00:09:56,165 Speaker 2: we said that, and the drink in the pub afterwards, 197 00:09:56,165 --> 00:09:59,725 Speaker 2: you know, it was it was those moments. But we've 198 00:09:59,725 --> 00:10:01,365 Speaker 2: gone through a lot together. We've gone through a lot 199 00:10:01,365 --> 00:10:04,365 Speaker 2: together before we had we've got to this place, you know. 200 00:10:04,525 --> 00:10:06,605 Speaker 2: So I think I was in a place where I 201 00:10:06,645 --> 00:10:08,125 Speaker 2: was very much like, Okay, I'm in it for the 202 00:10:08,125 --> 00:10:10,605 Speaker 2: long rule with Jacob, you know, for both of us. 203 00:10:10,605 --> 00:10:11,445 Speaker 2: I think we were both there. 204 00:10:11,645 --> 00:10:14,165 Speaker 1: June twenty eighteen. Can you tell me about that day, 205 00:10:14,245 --> 00:10:15,645 Speaker 1: how it started and how it ended. 206 00:10:16,245 --> 00:10:20,965 Speaker 2: It was a very hot London kind of FuG My 207 00:10:21,125 --> 00:10:25,205 Speaker 2: son was just finishing his final GCSS, which I don't 208 00:10:25,205 --> 00:10:27,365 Speaker 2: know what the equipments in Australia, but it's you do 209 00:10:27,405 --> 00:10:29,565 Speaker 2: them at sixteen. It's fine. A year of school, funny 210 00:10:29,645 --> 00:10:32,325 Speaker 2: year of school. Jake wasn't feeling great, and this would 211 00:10:32,325 --> 00:10:34,405 Speaker 2: often happen, you know, Jake just didn't feel great. It 212 00:10:34,525 --> 00:10:36,565 Speaker 2: was it was the kind of ebb and flow, the 213 00:10:36,605 --> 00:10:39,245 Speaker 2: tidal nature of MS. But at the time I just thought, 214 00:10:39,285 --> 00:10:41,605 Speaker 2: oh god, it's man, flee, Okay, I'll do what I do. 215 00:10:41,845 --> 00:10:43,325 Speaker 2: But it had been going on a few days. He'd 216 00:10:43,365 --> 00:10:47,085 Speaker 2: been working. He'd done about two days before he asked 217 00:10:47,085 --> 00:10:49,245 Speaker 2: me to run some lines with him, and we were 218 00:10:49,325 --> 00:10:51,765 Speaker 2: laughing so much because he couldn't get he couldn't get 219 00:10:51,765 --> 00:10:54,085 Speaker 2: his lines out, and I knew he knew them, but 220 00:10:54,125 --> 00:10:56,205 Speaker 2: it was more it was just very lots of spoonerisms 221 00:10:56,245 --> 00:10:58,885 Speaker 2: and just how funny he couldn't just quite hold together 222 00:10:58,965 --> 00:11:01,925 Speaker 2: the sentence. But we dismissed it as just tired and 223 00:11:02,765 --> 00:11:05,045 Speaker 2: actually he'd overwork the lines. He knew the lines too well, 224 00:11:05,085 --> 00:11:08,405 Speaker 2: that's what it was. He'd developed a slight rash again. 225 00:11:08,485 --> 00:11:12,245 Speaker 2: It was like, well, it's hot. So I went out 226 00:11:12,245 --> 00:11:14,045 Speaker 2: to get steroids for him, which is what we did 227 00:11:14,165 --> 00:11:16,125 Speaker 2: on those moments where he could feel he was on 228 00:11:16,125 --> 00:11:18,845 Speaker 2: the edge of a potential MS relapse, which is where 229 00:11:18,885 --> 00:11:20,965 Speaker 2: you really go down for a few weeks and you 230 00:11:21,005 --> 00:11:22,965 Speaker 2: can just pull it back some steroids. So I went 231 00:11:23,045 --> 00:11:26,325 Speaker 2: to Queen's Square, which is the hospital where Jacob would 232 00:11:26,325 --> 00:11:28,645 Speaker 2: every month go for his MSS injection, which was a 233 00:11:28,725 --> 00:11:30,645 Speaker 2: sort of a sort of new wand to drug he 234 00:11:30,725 --> 00:11:35,605 Speaker 2: was on. And when I came back, I found him 235 00:11:35,605 --> 00:11:38,925 Speaker 2: clapsed on the bathroom floor and he was clapsed in 236 00:11:38,925 --> 00:11:41,245 Speaker 2: a way that it was like I thought he'd just 237 00:11:41,325 --> 00:11:43,005 Speaker 2: laying down in there because it was cool, you know, 238 00:11:43,045 --> 00:11:45,405 Speaker 2: the tars were cool. But he was not making sense. 239 00:11:45,445 --> 00:11:48,205 Speaker 2: He was just repetitive speech, and I knew immediately something 240 00:11:48,285 --> 00:11:52,565 Speaker 2: was very wrong. Cut to you know, blue lit to 241 00:11:52,605 --> 00:11:57,165 Speaker 2: a hospital, all the kind of craziness of that, and 242 00:11:57,245 --> 00:11:59,605 Speaker 2: I guess you know, there are those moments. I always 243 00:11:59,605 --> 00:12:02,965 Speaker 2: remember a girlfriend saying to me, when's my future going 244 00:12:03,005 --> 00:12:04,725 Speaker 2: to happen to me? And I always say, your future 245 00:12:04,765 --> 00:12:07,725 Speaker 2: just happens. It's like it doesn't necessarily evolve, it just 246 00:12:07,765 --> 00:12:09,845 Speaker 2: you don't notice it, and then suddenly it's bam. And 247 00:12:09,925 --> 00:12:12,685 Speaker 2: it was like, in that moment, I knew I was 248 00:12:12,725 --> 00:12:15,685 Speaker 2: in it, but also I was immediately my screenwriting head 249 00:12:15,725 --> 00:12:18,085 Speaker 2: was on, so I was almost I mean, I describe it, 250 00:12:18,125 --> 00:12:20,005 Speaker 2: but I was feeling like, oh my god, this is 251 00:12:20,125 --> 00:12:22,405 Speaker 2: this is a drama. You know, the kind of five 252 00:12:22,485 --> 00:12:25,245 Speaker 2: year old only you loved, loved the drama, who loved 253 00:12:25,245 --> 00:12:27,525 Speaker 2: the hit of the the hit of the punchline, the 254 00:12:27,565 --> 00:12:29,925 Speaker 2: hit of the plot twist. It was there. It was 255 00:12:29,965 --> 00:12:33,325 Speaker 2: definitely adrenalized, and I think it's a little bit it 256 00:12:33,325 --> 00:12:35,445 Speaker 2: reminded me a little bit like when you get pregnant, 257 00:12:35,565 --> 00:12:37,325 Speaker 2: and you know, it's like for me, I just had 258 00:12:37,405 --> 00:12:39,645 Speaker 2: nine months of a hangover, but it's like you are 259 00:12:39,765 --> 00:12:41,885 Speaker 2: suddenly in an altered state, and as much as you 260 00:12:41,925 --> 00:12:43,565 Speaker 2: want to get back, you just can't. You going to 261 00:12:43,645 --> 00:12:45,805 Speaker 2: have to go forward and through it. It was not 262 00:12:45,885 --> 00:12:48,365 Speaker 2: unlike that feeling of like whoa, Okay, I'm on a 263 00:12:48,485 --> 00:12:53,085 Speaker 2: ride and whoa, I feel chemically weird, very adrenalized, but 264 00:12:53,165 --> 00:12:55,765 Speaker 2: also I think you're hyper vigilant and you're just fighting 265 00:12:55,805 --> 00:12:59,565 Speaker 2: for somebody. Because yeah, it was it was apparent in 266 00:12:59,605 --> 00:13:03,085 Speaker 2: that moment Jade was very unwell. But then four or 267 00:13:03,085 --> 00:13:05,565 Speaker 2: five hours later he'd had all the scans, he'd come 268 00:13:05,645 --> 00:13:08,405 Speaker 2: through the other side, and he went from being repetitive 269 00:13:08,405 --> 00:13:11,605 Speaker 2: words speech like, oh my god, what happened? And we 270 00:13:11,685 --> 00:13:14,205 Speaker 2: put it down to it was a seizure of some 271 00:13:14,365 --> 00:13:15,845 Speaker 2: kind and they were just trying to work out what 272 00:13:15,845 --> 00:13:17,925 Speaker 2: it was. But in that moment he was like he'd 273 00:13:17,965 --> 00:13:22,165 Speaker 2: been swearing profusely at the at the paramedics that had arrived, 274 00:13:22,165 --> 00:13:24,605 Speaker 2: an amazing posse of paramedics who came to help him, 275 00:13:24,645 --> 00:13:30,165 Speaker 2: and he was just mortified. So that was the immediate reaction. 276 00:13:30,365 --> 00:13:34,845 Speaker 2: But then over the next two weeks, Jacob physically, cognitively, 277 00:13:34,885 --> 00:13:38,325 Speaker 2: psychiatrically just unraveled. And that was when it became apparent 278 00:13:38,365 --> 00:13:41,565 Speaker 2: that this was way beyond just potentially an infection from 279 00:13:41,605 --> 00:13:44,925 Speaker 2: a tick or you know it was it was viral menagitis. 280 00:13:45,005 --> 00:13:47,925 Speaker 2: It wasn't meningitis. It was another kind of infection. You 281 00:13:48,005 --> 00:13:50,045 Speaker 2: might have gone, could it be could it be a 282 00:13:50,245 --> 00:13:53,645 Speaker 2: you know, was it a relapse? But it became apparent 283 00:13:53,725 --> 00:13:56,125 Speaker 2: sort of two weeks in that actually it was life threatening. 284 00:13:56,325 --> 00:14:00,045 Speaker 2: And I think that was when the world started to 285 00:14:00,125 --> 00:14:02,165 Speaker 2: slow and I realized it was not just that I 286 00:14:02,205 --> 00:14:04,205 Speaker 2: was in a drama, but the world had tipped upside 287 00:14:04,245 --> 00:14:05,845 Speaker 2: down and it was like you were walking on the 288 00:14:05,885 --> 00:14:08,765 Speaker 2: scening looking down on your life, going, this is surreal, 289 00:14:08,925 --> 00:14:12,085 Speaker 2: totally surreal, and I think nobody prepares you for how 290 00:14:12,125 --> 00:14:13,205 Speaker 2: physical trauma is. 291 00:14:14,445 --> 00:14:19,005 Speaker 1: You know, you talk about at one point hoping, you know, 292 00:14:19,005 --> 00:14:20,925 Speaker 1: when they're trying to work out what it is, because 293 00:14:21,125 --> 00:14:24,845 Speaker 1: it's not following that pattern that almost they expect, where 294 00:14:24,845 --> 00:14:29,085 Speaker 1: it sort of keeps deteriorating. It's unclear what's going on, 295 00:14:29,405 --> 00:14:32,125 Speaker 1: and you find yourself at one point they're looking for 296 00:14:32,125 --> 00:14:34,725 Speaker 1: a tumor, and you find yourself hoping that it's a chair, 297 00:14:34,965 --> 00:14:37,685 Speaker 1: And you have to say to yourself, where am I 298 00:14:37,725 --> 00:14:40,725 Speaker 1: in the world where I'm hoping that my husband has cancer, 299 00:14:40,725 --> 00:14:42,165 Speaker 1: because that's going to be good news. 300 00:14:42,485 --> 00:14:44,765 Speaker 2: You want things that you can control. You want something 301 00:14:44,805 --> 00:14:46,885 Speaker 2: that has a kind of level of certainty. Obviously cancel. 302 00:14:47,085 --> 00:14:50,365 Speaker 2: You know it's nobody wants that diagnosis, but you do 303 00:14:50,405 --> 00:14:52,565 Speaker 2: want something to make sense. And you know, Jacob went 304 00:14:52,685 --> 00:14:57,365 Speaker 2: from talking non stop, talking in Shakespearean language, you know, 305 00:14:57,405 --> 00:14:59,045 Speaker 2: what is my duty? What is my cause? Why am 306 00:14:59,045 --> 00:15:04,525 Speaker 2: I here to mute, catatonic staring into space to turning 307 00:15:04,525 --> 00:15:08,605 Speaker 2: into a kind of border Empire gangster and like punching everybody. 308 00:15:08,605 --> 00:15:10,205 Speaker 2: You know, they had to go to guard on his door. 309 00:15:10,365 --> 00:15:12,925 Speaker 2: I mean, I think as a family, both mine and Jacob, 310 00:15:12,965 --> 00:15:15,965 Speaker 2: particularly Jacob's family, who you know, were all very close, 311 00:15:16,645 --> 00:15:21,365 Speaker 2: watching their son, their brother, their uncle and Rabel was overwhelming. 312 00:15:21,365 --> 00:15:24,325 Speaker 2: For my children, it was what the Hell's going on? 313 00:15:24,445 --> 00:15:28,165 Speaker 2: It just didn't make sense. And actually I think what 314 00:15:28,605 --> 00:15:30,365 Speaker 2: was happening was there was just a key mont where 315 00:15:30,365 --> 00:15:33,325 Speaker 2: it looked like Jake may not survive and physically his 316 00:15:33,365 --> 00:15:36,205 Speaker 2: body just couldn't take this kind of what we now 317 00:15:36,245 --> 00:15:39,605 Speaker 2: realize was something called brain on fire, which is a 318 00:15:39,645 --> 00:15:43,605 Speaker 2: kind of encephalitis which they discovered in his bloodstream just 319 00:15:43,685 --> 00:15:46,725 Speaker 2: as he was being put into a coma. They suspected 320 00:15:46,725 --> 00:15:48,925 Speaker 2: it and they got confirmation. But at two weeks in, 321 00:15:49,005 --> 00:15:51,205 Speaker 2: the decision was taken to put him in a medically 322 00:15:51,165 --> 00:15:51,885 Speaker 2: induced coma. 323 00:15:52,605 --> 00:15:54,845 Speaker 1: And I think is that to let his brain recover. 324 00:15:54,925 --> 00:15:55,445 Speaker 1: To let his. 325 00:15:55,445 --> 00:15:57,925 Speaker 2: Brain recover, he was to try and stop the seizuring. 326 00:15:58,005 --> 00:16:01,885 Speaker 2: He was just continually seizuring. And also just your pneumonic 327 00:16:01,965 --> 00:16:04,645 Speaker 2: function and you're swallowing, you're breathing, your heart rate, all 328 00:16:04,645 --> 00:16:06,965 Speaker 2: of those things are under pressure. So it's a way 329 00:16:07,005 --> 00:16:10,325 Speaker 2: to ventilate somebody, to just get them into a state 330 00:16:10,365 --> 00:16:13,525 Speaker 2: where you can start, if needs be, taking over the 331 00:16:13,565 --> 00:16:16,845 Speaker 2: basic kind of organ control. So it's a combination of 332 00:16:16,925 --> 00:16:19,845 Speaker 2: giving Jake physically some rest, his body some rest, I think, 333 00:16:19,925 --> 00:16:22,325 Speaker 2: giving them some time to kind of try and control 334 00:16:22,365 --> 00:16:25,005 Speaker 2: what was happening to him. And in that time you're 335 00:16:25,325 --> 00:16:28,165 Speaker 2: sort of thrust in this very exclusive world. So we 336 00:16:28,165 --> 00:16:31,965 Speaker 2: were in the medically intensive unit, and you know, in 337 00:16:31,965 --> 00:16:34,405 Speaker 2: that unit you're seeing the gamut of injury. You know, 338 00:16:34,445 --> 00:16:38,125 Speaker 2: you're seeing clearly very old people who have suddenly got 339 00:16:38,165 --> 00:16:41,005 Speaker 2: had a stroke or you know, a very young person 340 00:16:41,045 --> 00:16:44,445 Speaker 2: who's clearly had a really horrific car accident and you 341 00:16:44,485 --> 00:16:46,845 Speaker 2: know will never be the same. And so you're literally 342 00:16:46,885 --> 00:16:48,805 Speaker 2: sort of caught between these places, going are you going 343 00:16:48,845 --> 00:16:50,125 Speaker 2: to be there? Are you going to be there? You 344 00:16:50,165 --> 00:16:54,085 Speaker 2: know what's going on. It's a very surreal, surreal, surreal experience, 345 00:16:54,125 --> 00:16:56,565 Speaker 2: you know, And I've watched those things on drama. I've 346 00:16:56,645 --> 00:16:58,325 Speaker 2: just you know, today I've had to write a scene 347 00:16:58,365 --> 00:17:00,885 Speaker 2: of a hospital scene, and you know, I'm doing exactly 348 00:17:00,885 --> 00:17:03,325 Speaker 2: the thing we will do. Someone's rushing through doors, are opening, 349 00:17:03,565 --> 00:17:05,765 Speaker 2: a nurse very quickly gives the diagnosis, and there's a 350 00:17:05,885 --> 00:17:08,805 Speaker 2: kind of reactive moment. Well, it's the relentlessness of it 351 00:17:09,445 --> 00:17:11,925 Speaker 2: must I mean, I remember that I kept on calling 352 00:17:11,925 --> 00:17:13,725 Speaker 2: a girlfriend, going, I really think he's not going to 353 00:17:13,765 --> 00:17:15,885 Speaker 2: make it today. I really think it's not going to happen. 354 00:17:15,965 --> 00:17:17,685 Speaker 2: And then I was thinking, God, I was doing this 355 00:17:17,725 --> 00:17:19,805 Speaker 2: two days ago. This is on repeat. You know I 356 00:17:19,805 --> 00:17:23,445 Speaker 2: would have edited this bit. So it's surreal experience. It's 357 00:17:23,445 --> 00:17:27,765 Speaker 2: a really really surreal experience, you know, totally surreal. 358 00:17:27,845 --> 00:17:31,525 Speaker 1: And you talk about in your book about how in 359 00:17:31,965 --> 00:17:35,485 Speaker 1: the movies, maybe not ones that you've written, but in 360 00:17:35,525 --> 00:17:38,725 Speaker 1: the movies being in a coma, there's like this quiet 361 00:17:38,805 --> 00:17:42,045 Speaker 1: room and there's a beautiful sheet up, and maybe there's 362 00:17:42,045 --> 00:17:44,765 Speaker 1: some quiet music playing and a lot of families with 363 00:17:44,845 --> 00:17:47,765 Speaker 1: tears rolling down their face, holding hands. And you say 364 00:17:47,805 --> 00:17:48,965 Speaker 1: it's very different to that. 365 00:17:49,365 --> 00:17:52,085 Speaker 2: Well, I do think there is a kind of profound, 366 00:17:52,885 --> 00:17:57,325 Speaker 2: intense concentration going on in those spaces. But what's extraordinary 367 00:17:57,325 --> 00:17:59,925 Speaker 2: is people are in comas. So nurses are talking about 368 00:17:59,925 --> 00:18:03,125 Speaker 2: their day. You know, you've got orders being taken for delivery. 369 00:18:03,205 --> 00:18:05,045 Speaker 2: You know, you've got someone saying there's a uber here, 370 00:18:05,085 --> 00:18:07,285 Speaker 2: So you've got all of that the life. Then you've 371 00:18:07,285 --> 00:18:09,685 Speaker 2: got the kind of mechanics of looking after someone. You know, 372 00:18:10,165 --> 00:18:12,925 Speaker 2: there is so much equipment some on. So with Jacob, 373 00:18:12,965 --> 00:18:15,165 Speaker 2: it was a ventilator that constantly had to be cleaned. 374 00:18:15,205 --> 00:18:17,205 Speaker 2: You know, there are those things that make the suctions, 375 00:18:17,245 --> 00:18:21,645 Speaker 2: the peaks, the wizzes, the part monitors that the cold blankets, 376 00:18:21,685 --> 00:18:24,125 Speaker 2: the ice, the suddenly the temperature's got so much, Let's 377 00:18:24,165 --> 00:18:26,725 Speaker 2: just surround him with an ice blanket. Let's cool him down, 378 00:18:26,805 --> 00:18:29,685 Speaker 2: let's heat him up. Let's you know, his blood pressure 379 00:18:29,685 --> 00:18:31,285 Speaker 2: has gone too high. Let's try and bring down. We 380 00:18:31,325 --> 00:18:33,165 Speaker 2: need to get some more medication. We need to stop 381 00:18:33,205 --> 00:18:37,085 Speaker 2: the medication. We need consultants, doctor's therapists. Let's move his limbs. 382 00:18:37,125 --> 00:18:38,925 Speaker 2: We've got to keep his limbs moving. We've got to 383 00:18:38,925 --> 00:18:40,965 Speaker 2: move his body. We've got to pull something through his 384 00:18:41,005 --> 00:18:42,565 Speaker 2: stomach because he can't go to the toilet. 385 00:18:42,565 --> 00:18:42,645 Speaker 1: This. 386 00:18:42,965 --> 00:18:46,285 Speaker 2: You know, there's so much going on, and there is 387 00:18:46,325 --> 00:18:48,445 Speaker 2: this sort of surreal little waiting room. There was a 388 00:18:48,485 --> 00:18:50,445 Speaker 2: little rating room that there was an electric door, and 389 00:18:50,525 --> 00:18:53,685 Speaker 2: it was just for families, of which very very small group, 390 00:18:53,765 --> 00:18:55,685 Speaker 2: you know, probably only two or three of you, because 391 00:18:55,685 --> 00:18:59,125 Speaker 2: there were only five beds in the whole ward. And 392 00:18:59,485 --> 00:19:02,005 Speaker 2: you spend most of it watching really terrible daytime TV. 393 00:19:02,485 --> 00:19:05,205 Speaker 2: And everybody's waiting for a consultant to try and stop them. 394 00:19:05,245 --> 00:19:07,325 Speaker 2: And if you can, you can jump in and get 395 00:19:07,325 --> 00:19:09,605 Speaker 2: in the room. I mean, one of the things that 396 00:19:09,605 --> 00:19:12,165 Speaker 2: I feel incredibly grateful for was this was pre COVID, 397 00:19:12,365 --> 00:19:15,365 Speaker 2: so we could be with Jacob. We could be with him, 398 00:19:15,405 --> 00:19:17,925 Speaker 2: we were able to be not you know, Max was 399 00:19:18,005 --> 00:19:19,525 Speaker 2: two people at a time, but we could be in 400 00:19:19,525 --> 00:19:22,165 Speaker 2: the room with him. So but it's totally surreal. There 401 00:19:22,205 --> 00:19:25,085 Speaker 2: was the very beautiful little thing which was somebody was 402 00:19:25,205 --> 00:19:29,645 Speaker 2: leaving really beautifully drawn post it notes with beautifully drawn 403 00:19:29,685 --> 00:19:31,925 Speaker 2: with little phrases little hey, how are you doing today? 404 00:19:32,205 --> 00:19:34,085 Speaker 2: And that none of the nurses knew who it was, 405 00:19:34,245 --> 00:19:37,205 Speaker 2: but they were being stuck everywhere, and so that became 406 00:19:37,205 --> 00:19:39,485 Speaker 2: a sort of detective hunt on the on the wall, 407 00:19:39,485 --> 00:19:41,365 Speaker 2: people were like, can you see what's going on? But 408 00:19:41,405 --> 00:19:44,005 Speaker 2: also no one tells you about the turnover of staff. 409 00:19:44,365 --> 00:19:47,085 Speaker 2: So you know, in a drama you have one doctor, 410 00:19:47,125 --> 00:19:49,725 Speaker 2: you have one nurse. They're becoming your best friends. You 411 00:19:49,765 --> 00:19:52,165 Speaker 2: have a rotation all the time. And in fact, I 412 00:19:52,205 --> 00:19:53,885 Speaker 2: don't know whether it's the same in Australia, but in 413 00:19:53,925 --> 00:19:57,605 Speaker 2: the UK doctor consultants not your chief but the kind 414 00:19:57,605 --> 00:20:01,085 Speaker 2: of managerial consultant that you meant to see. They don't 415 00:20:01,085 --> 00:20:03,765 Speaker 2: stay longer than three months. You know, Jacob was in 416 00:20:03,805 --> 00:20:06,605 Speaker 2: a coma for seven months, so we had a turnover 417 00:20:06,685 --> 00:20:10,205 Speaker 2: of three four consultants during that time, constantly going where's 418 00:20:10,325 --> 00:20:12,245 Speaker 2: oh is doctor? Oh he's gone, No, No, he's gone 419 00:20:12,245 --> 00:20:14,685 Speaker 2: to another world. And it's actually m built. It's designed 420 00:20:14,725 --> 00:20:17,485 Speaker 2: like that so you don't get too close, right, So 421 00:20:17,685 --> 00:20:20,005 Speaker 2: even that the kind of methodology of the kind of 422 00:20:20,045 --> 00:20:22,685 Speaker 2: amazingly bonded relationship you're going to have through the consultant. 423 00:20:22,805 --> 00:20:25,605 Speaker 2: You're not. They're constantly being moved on. 424 00:20:26,205 --> 00:20:28,405 Speaker 1: And that sense of loss and having to start again. 425 00:20:28,965 --> 00:20:31,925 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, and learn the language and share the language 426 00:20:31,925 --> 00:20:33,965 Speaker 2: of who this person is and who they are and 427 00:20:34,805 --> 00:20:36,365 Speaker 2: who you are in relation to them. 428 00:20:36,765 --> 00:20:40,285 Speaker 1: And you say this went on for seven months and 429 00:20:40,325 --> 00:20:44,085 Speaker 1: it doesn't sound at all peaceful, and you know, you 430 00:20:44,205 --> 00:20:46,805 Speaker 1: write about these are dramatic times. But more than this, 431 00:20:46,965 --> 00:20:49,885 Speaker 1: they are lonely, and more they are boring. No one 432 00:20:49,925 --> 00:20:52,125 Speaker 1: told me how boring loss is. No. 433 00:20:52,285 --> 00:20:54,325 Speaker 2: And it's quite funny because when I look at that period, 434 00:20:54,445 --> 00:20:56,925 Speaker 2: I suddenly think, do you have Love Island? 435 00:20:57,125 --> 00:20:58,485 Speaker 1: Yes? Oh, yes? 436 00:20:59,005 --> 00:21:01,925 Speaker 2: I had a Love Island party. Jake was in a 437 00:21:01,965 --> 00:21:04,765 Speaker 2: coma and I had a Love Island party where I 438 00:21:04,805 --> 00:21:07,005 Speaker 2: invited all my friends around and we got the jazzled 439 00:21:07,125 --> 00:21:09,965 Speaker 2: and I got all my daughter's friends did nails, and 440 00:21:10,005 --> 00:21:12,125 Speaker 2: we had cocktails and we watched the final and then 441 00:21:12,125 --> 00:21:14,805 Speaker 2: I had a fiftieth Birdy party for fifty people in 442 00:21:14,845 --> 00:21:18,205 Speaker 2: my kitchen. I'm like, what planet was I on? And 443 00:21:18,285 --> 00:21:20,045 Speaker 2: at the same time, I mean, it's sort of weird, 444 00:21:20,085 --> 00:21:21,485 Speaker 2: you know, the kind of idea that I should be 445 00:21:21,485 --> 00:21:23,965 Speaker 2: wearing black and sort of just sitting by Jacob's bird. 446 00:21:24,085 --> 00:21:28,005 Speaker 2: We just can't do that. But also, you've got teenagers, 447 00:21:28,045 --> 00:21:29,925 Speaker 2: you know, I had my mother in law, I had 448 00:21:29,645 --> 00:21:33,165 Speaker 2: my siblings. You have a community of people who need 449 00:21:33,525 --> 00:21:36,565 Speaker 2: you need support, but they need support. So I sort 450 00:21:36,565 --> 00:21:38,405 Speaker 2: of took over where Jacob did, which is I became 451 00:21:38,445 --> 00:21:40,525 Speaker 2: the kind of master of fun. So I look back 452 00:21:40,525 --> 00:21:42,285 Speaker 2: down and think, but I think a lot of it 453 00:21:42,325 --> 00:21:45,045 Speaker 2: was I was trying to counteract the boredom, and the 454 00:21:45,085 --> 00:21:47,125 Speaker 2: boredom was kind of the worst thing because there was 455 00:21:47,125 --> 00:21:50,005 Speaker 2: an inactivity to it. The truth is, I think when 456 00:21:50,045 --> 00:21:52,365 Speaker 2: someone is in a coma, there is a level of 457 00:21:52,365 --> 00:21:55,485 Speaker 2: inactivity or impotency you have as a family member, because 458 00:21:55,965 --> 00:21:57,525 Speaker 2: that's the essential part of it. I mean, one of 459 00:21:57,525 --> 00:22:00,205 Speaker 2: the things I found very interesting was towards the end 460 00:22:00,205 --> 00:22:03,525 Speaker 2: of Jake's coma, when he was still very much submerged 461 00:22:03,565 --> 00:22:07,365 Speaker 2: in it, a notice went up above his bed and said, 462 00:22:08,365 --> 00:22:11,765 Speaker 2: do not overstimulate the patient no more than fifteen minutes conversation. 463 00:22:12,725 --> 00:22:14,845 Speaker 2: And I suddenly realized again, you know, I'd sort of 464 00:22:14,845 --> 00:22:16,645 Speaker 2: given up on the idea that Jake could hear us, 465 00:22:17,085 --> 00:22:19,245 Speaker 2: and I was reminded that Jake, as Jake was starting 466 00:22:19,245 --> 00:22:20,845 Speaker 2: to come up a lot of what was going on 467 00:22:20,885 --> 00:22:24,605 Speaker 2: around him was becoming incredibly stimulating. And so that was 468 00:22:24,645 --> 00:22:27,005 Speaker 2: when I realized that, Okay, we've got to go back 469 00:22:27,045 --> 00:22:29,525 Speaker 2: in again and connect, but for the vast period of it. 470 00:22:30,005 --> 00:22:32,405 Speaker 2: And when you talk to Jacob now, he'll go, I 471 00:22:32,405 --> 00:22:34,405 Speaker 2: don't remember any of it. I have no memory of 472 00:22:34,405 --> 00:22:36,645 Speaker 2: any of it, whereas you know, of course, you know 473 00:22:36,725 --> 00:22:38,885 Speaker 2: I was speaking eulogies to it. You know, we were 474 00:22:38,885 --> 00:22:41,645 Speaker 2: playing every we were sourcing his favorite bits of music. 475 00:22:42,645 --> 00:22:44,685 Speaker 2: I think in many ways, you're doing that for yourself 476 00:22:45,285 --> 00:22:47,845 Speaker 2: as much as anything else, because you're doing something to 477 00:22:47,885 --> 00:22:51,165 Speaker 2: give form to the chaos of it and to have 478 00:22:51,285 --> 00:22:53,525 Speaker 2: something to do every day, because most of the time 479 00:22:53,565 --> 00:22:56,405 Speaker 2: that you have nothing to do in that context. So 480 00:22:56,445 --> 00:22:57,925 Speaker 2: what you then have to do is really work hard 481 00:22:57,965 --> 00:22:59,765 Speaker 2: to make the rest of your life work because you 482 00:22:59,885 --> 00:23:02,085 Speaker 2: need that energy and you need that. You need to 483 00:23:02,085 --> 00:23:04,005 Speaker 2: find the joy. I suppose you need to find the 484 00:23:04,085 --> 00:23:07,485 Speaker 2: joy because one month, two months, three months, four month, 485 00:23:07,525 --> 00:23:09,165 Speaker 2: and you really need to start to find the joy. 486 00:23:10,005 --> 00:23:11,285 Speaker 2: Running parallel with it. 487 00:23:11,445 --> 00:23:15,245 Speaker 1: You also need to find the money. Like the logistics 488 00:23:15,325 --> 00:23:19,365 Speaker 1: of you know, work will understand and everyone around you 489 00:23:19,405 --> 00:23:21,245 Speaker 1: will understand if you need to take a week off 490 00:23:21,285 --> 00:23:23,925 Speaker 1: two weeks off, maybe three weeks off, but you were 491 00:23:23,965 --> 00:23:28,765 Speaker 1: writing season two of a hit show. Yeah, and you 492 00:23:28,805 --> 00:23:31,765 Speaker 1: know for the Baby say, you had a cast, you 493 00:23:31,845 --> 00:23:35,485 Speaker 1: had everybody's schedules, Like, well, how did you handle that? 494 00:23:35,645 --> 00:23:36,965 Speaker 1: How did you manage it? It's not like there's a 495 00:23:36,965 --> 00:23:37,925 Speaker 1: team of writers. It's you. 496 00:23:38,525 --> 00:23:40,125 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I mean that show is you. 497 00:23:40,205 --> 00:23:40,445 Speaker 1: Yeah. 498 00:23:40,445 --> 00:23:42,685 Speaker 2: I did have another writer on that second series who 499 00:23:42,725 --> 00:23:45,405 Speaker 2: is really helpful. I also had a creative team that 500 00:23:45,405 --> 00:23:48,445 Speaker 2: I know incredibly well, you know, and there's something weird, 501 00:23:48,485 --> 00:23:52,005 Speaker 2: you know. I really my creative team. I work specifically 502 00:23:52,045 --> 00:23:54,445 Speaker 2: with a producer, Jane Featherstone, who wants sister pictures and 503 00:23:54,485 --> 00:23:57,965 Speaker 2: we've worked together forever. She's a really good friends as well, 504 00:23:58,005 --> 00:23:59,485 Speaker 2: you know. So I need to be that open and 505 00:23:59,525 --> 00:24:01,805 Speaker 2: I've always needed to do that, you know. I've got 506 00:24:01,845 --> 00:24:04,125 Speaker 2: add I can't stop talking. It's part of what I 507 00:24:04,165 --> 00:24:06,685 Speaker 2: have to sort of monitor myself, and so people know 508 00:24:06,765 --> 00:24:09,365 Speaker 2: that about me. So I didn't keep silent of that 509 00:24:09,405 --> 00:24:11,685 Speaker 2: this experience. And what funny enough, one of the things 510 00:24:11,685 --> 00:24:13,925 Speaker 2: that's come back a lot from people is, oh my god, 511 00:24:13,965 --> 00:24:16,165 Speaker 2: you had so many people supporting you. And I realized 512 00:24:16,165 --> 00:24:18,445 Speaker 2: it is because I went in go oh my God, 513 00:24:18,485 --> 00:24:21,045 Speaker 2: you won't believe what happened today. And of course people's 514 00:24:21,125 --> 00:24:22,725 Speaker 2: natural instinct when you tell them is to go what 515 00:24:22,885 --> 00:24:25,725 Speaker 2: we kid we do. So my case, I was incredibly 516 00:24:25,805 --> 00:24:30,685 Speaker 2: lucky because the editorial meeting rooms and my production company 517 00:24:30,765 --> 00:24:32,845 Speaker 2: was literally ten minutes walk from the hospital. I mean, 518 00:24:33,085 --> 00:24:35,645 Speaker 2: how lucky could that be? You know, there were families 519 00:24:35,685 --> 00:24:37,205 Speaker 2: on the wood that were having to travel into as 520 00:24:37,245 --> 00:24:39,645 Speaker 2: a day just to get to that hospital. So loads 521 00:24:39,645 --> 00:24:42,765 Speaker 2: of luck, loads of luck. Also incredible people who would 522 00:24:42,845 --> 00:24:45,885 Speaker 2: kind of go, Okay, let's focus, let's get you down 523 00:24:45,925 --> 00:24:48,005 Speaker 2: on this script, let's talk through the script. And then 524 00:24:48,045 --> 00:24:50,045 Speaker 2: they would see me go and go, okay, bring down 525 00:24:50,085 --> 00:24:51,525 Speaker 2: the blinds. We're leaving you for an hour. We'll come 526 00:24:51,565 --> 00:24:54,165 Speaker 2: back and now here's a bowl of harribos. Eat those 527 00:24:54,165 --> 00:24:55,845 Speaker 2: when you get wake up. And so I would just 528 00:24:56,005 --> 00:24:58,485 Speaker 2: like I was just held. I mean I have to 529 00:24:58,525 --> 00:25:02,925 Speaker 2: say I don't. And actually writing for me was something 530 00:25:03,005 --> 00:25:05,685 Speaker 2: that was essential. I kept going through my entire through 531 00:25:05,685 --> 00:25:09,325 Speaker 2: this entire experience, I didn't stop writing. So I write 532 00:25:09,525 --> 00:25:13,405 Speaker 2: in the room, I wrote, I wrote it, Yeah, so interesting. 533 00:25:13,925 --> 00:25:17,605 Speaker 2: I needed it. I needed that. I needed to process that. 534 00:25:17,725 --> 00:25:20,365 Speaker 2: And I think, what's strange? I don't think it's until 535 00:25:20,405 --> 00:25:22,685 Speaker 2: series three actually that the real experience of what I've 536 00:25:22,725 --> 00:25:25,885 Speaker 2: gone through went into that final series, But certainly series 537 00:25:25,885 --> 00:25:28,605 Speaker 2: two it was you know, and it's a big machine. 538 00:25:28,645 --> 00:25:30,365 Speaker 2: You know, it's focused on the full crumb of you. 539 00:25:31,205 --> 00:25:34,085 Speaker 2: But you also have producers, you have brilliant directors, you 540 00:25:34,085 --> 00:25:36,565 Speaker 2: have your editorial team. You then have the actors who 541 00:25:36,605 --> 00:25:38,725 Speaker 2: you know incredibly well, who are the keepers of character, 542 00:25:38,725 --> 00:25:40,525 Speaker 2: who can come to you and say it's gone a 543 00:25:40,525 --> 00:25:43,005 Speaker 2: bit hoky, that bit you know, you know they you 544 00:25:43,085 --> 00:25:45,645 Speaker 2: have so many people doing that, checks and balances and 545 00:25:45,685 --> 00:25:48,085 Speaker 2: ticks and boxes and all of that that you know, 546 00:25:48,165 --> 00:25:50,645 Speaker 2: it's a big machine around you that really holds you. 547 00:25:51,165 --> 00:25:55,165 Speaker 2: And I've never been frightened of being at the center 548 00:25:55,205 --> 00:25:57,605 Speaker 2: of that. I've never been frightened. I've never had that. 549 00:25:57,805 --> 00:26:00,365 Speaker 2: I've never had that. I always sort of known I 550 00:26:00,405 --> 00:26:03,205 Speaker 2: can do it. It's weird, but I've always kind of thought, Okay, 551 00:26:03,205 --> 00:26:04,485 Speaker 2: what do you need from me? I can always come 552 00:26:04,565 --> 00:26:05,965 Speaker 2: up with the story. 553 00:26:07,205 --> 00:26:10,525 Speaker 1: After the break, Abby explains what happened when Jake woke 554 00:26:10,605 --> 00:26:16,485 Speaker 1: up from his coma and didn't recognize her. Do you 555 00:26:16,485 --> 00:26:18,685 Speaker 1: remember the day that he woke up or is it 556 00:26:18,765 --> 00:26:21,005 Speaker 1: not that clear? 557 00:26:21,685 --> 00:26:24,725 Speaker 2: I remember this little bit. So I remember the eye 558 00:26:24,765 --> 00:26:28,685 Speaker 2: opening and closing. I remember I had a great friend 559 00:26:28,725 --> 00:26:31,925 Speaker 2: who's who knew a barber. And the other thing is 560 00:26:31,965 --> 00:26:34,045 Speaker 2: the growing of the hair. You know, all those things 561 00:26:34,045 --> 00:26:36,565 Speaker 2: that we keep secret from our partners, who knew how 562 00:26:36,645 --> 00:26:39,045 Speaker 2: much hair grew in the oddest places. So Jake had 563 00:26:39,045 --> 00:26:40,845 Speaker 2: to be trimmed and shaved, and you know, all of 564 00:26:40,885 --> 00:26:43,125 Speaker 2: that was going And so I started to notice when 565 00:26:43,125 --> 00:26:46,165 Speaker 2: the barber came in and he'd blow the hair, Jake 566 00:26:46,205 --> 00:26:48,285 Speaker 2: would start to ruckle his nose and I realized that 567 00:26:48,325 --> 00:26:50,285 Speaker 2: he was coming up. And they kept on trying to 568 00:26:50,285 --> 00:26:52,085 Speaker 2: bring him. It was a medically induced kerna, so they 569 00:26:52,125 --> 00:26:54,845 Speaker 2: kept him trying to take off the medication. It's an 570 00:26:54,845 --> 00:26:58,365 Speaker 2: anesthetic state, and every time they took it off, he 571 00:26:58,405 --> 00:27:00,365 Speaker 2: would seizure again. So that was the issue. They weren't 572 00:27:00,365 --> 00:27:02,165 Speaker 2: sure how they were going to bring him up. But 573 00:27:02,525 --> 00:27:04,845 Speaker 2: finally they gave him the kind of wonder drug, which 574 00:27:04,885 --> 00:27:08,405 Speaker 2: was a chemotherapy joke actually, and it was an experimental 575 00:27:08,405 --> 00:27:10,445 Speaker 2: way of trying. They were trying it out and it worked, 576 00:27:10,485 --> 00:27:13,005 Speaker 2: and so the seiz ring just started to calm. So 577 00:27:13,125 --> 00:27:15,285 Speaker 2: when Jake first started to wake, it was very much 578 00:27:15,285 --> 00:27:17,565 Speaker 2: ebb and flow as they played around with the medication. 579 00:27:17,645 --> 00:27:19,885 Speaker 2: But what I really remember was he woke to a 580 00:27:19,925 --> 00:27:21,805 Speaker 2: point where his eyes were open, and the thing that 581 00:27:21,885 --> 00:27:25,245 Speaker 2: was incredibly exciting was he started to track people, which 582 00:27:25,365 --> 00:27:28,285 Speaker 2: was such a good sign that there was brain activity 583 00:27:28,325 --> 00:27:31,645 Speaker 2: there because you know, he went in for brain scans 584 00:27:31,685 --> 00:27:33,525 Speaker 2: there was a lot of vivid they called it vivid 585 00:27:33,525 --> 00:27:35,765 Speaker 2: areas of his brain. So we at that point we 586 00:27:35,845 --> 00:27:37,325 Speaker 2: knew that there was going to be some kind of 587 00:27:37,325 --> 00:27:40,525 Speaker 2: brain damage, but we didn't know to what degree. But 588 00:27:40,605 --> 00:27:42,445 Speaker 2: the tracking was a really good sign. So it started 589 00:27:42,445 --> 00:27:46,205 Speaker 2: with the tracking, and then the smile and then the 590 00:27:46,245 --> 00:27:48,965 Speaker 2: thumbs up, all of those very sort of methodical things. 591 00:27:49,005 --> 00:27:50,885 Speaker 2: But I think for me, the biggest moment was I 592 00:27:50,925 --> 00:27:53,445 Speaker 2: came in and suddenly there was a speech and language 593 00:27:53,445 --> 00:27:56,125 Speaker 2: woman there and he was now by this point sitting 594 00:27:56,205 --> 00:27:58,325 Speaker 2: up and he had to track eotomy so he couldn't 595 00:27:58,365 --> 00:28:00,925 Speaker 2: speak at that point. You had to do various things 596 00:28:01,045 --> 00:28:03,365 Speaker 2: so he could sort of do a growl. But they 597 00:28:03,405 --> 00:28:05,845 Speaker 2: were starting to work on him eating and that was when, 598 00:28:05,885 --> 00:28:09,965 Speaker 2: and that seemed to happen incredibly quickly. All this sort 599 00:28:09,965 --> 00:28:11,405 Speaker 2: of very bad he was. You know, I remember this 600 00:28:11,525 --> 00:28:13,725 Speaker 2: firs thing watching me to strawberry yogurt, and she said, 601 00:28:13,725 --> 00:28:17,165 Speaker 2: would you like to speak now, Jake, And he was like, yeah, 602 00:28:17,405 --> 00:28:20,565 Speaker 2: I'd like to speak. And that was just like, oh 603 00:28:20,605 --> 00:28:24,125 Speaker 2: my god, because not only was he didn't sound like him, 604 00:28:24,205 --> 00:28:27,605 Speaker 2: he sounded like a sort of North London like wide boy, 605 00:28:27,805 --> 00:28:31,525 Speaker 2: like his boys had gone very light, that very London. 606 00:28:32,045 --> 00:28:34,165 Speaker 2: So he that was odd, you know. So there were 607 00:28:34,205 --> 00:28:36,845 Speaker 2: all of these sort of little oddities. But as a family, 608 00:28:36,885 --> 00:28:39,405 Speaker 2: I think we were sort of going, hey, Jake, it's us. 609 00:28:39,445 --> 00:28:41,845 Speaker 2: And of course he was very sweet. He was a 610 00:28:41,925 --> 00:28:44,205 Speaker 2: little bit like a bear waking up, so he was 611 00:28:44,565 --> 00:28:46,685 Speaker 2: He would smile at the children and I've got videos 612 00:28:46,725 --> 00:28:49,285 Speaker 2: of in a Mabel singing to him at that point 613 00:28:49,325 --> 00:28:51,725 Speaker 2: he would just smile. There was lots of nonverbal but 614 00:28:51,805 --> 00:28:53,765 Speaker 2: as he started to speak a little bit, we started 615 00:28:53,805 --> 00:28:57,925 Speaker 2: to get a few words, and you know, I'd say 616 00:28:58,045 --> 00:29:01,005 Speaker 2: that went on for about sort of two three weeks 617 00:29:01,005 --> 00:29:03,125 Speaker 2: of just sort of coming to and we were able 618 00:29:03,125 --> 00:29:05,365 Speaker 2: to start to take him out in a wheelchair and 619 00:29:05,405 --> 00:29:07,125 Speaker 2: then they removed his trek. Heot to me, he came 620 00:29:07,125 --> 00:29:11,565 Speaker 2: off the ventilator, and it was amazing. I think we 621 00:29:11,565 --> 00:29:13,365 Speaker 2: were all like, oh my gosh, he's here. We could 622 00:29:13,405 --> 00:29:16,285 Speaker 2: see he was there, but I also could see there 623 00:29:16,285 --> 00:29:18,685 Speaker 2: was something profoundly different in him. The way he looked 624 00:29:18,725 --> 00:29:20,845 Speaker 2: at me. I just thought, there's something not right here. 625 00:29:22,445 --> 00:29:25,645 Speaker 2: So there was a sort of struck at you, a 626 00:29:25,685 --> 00:29:31,925 Speaker 2: combination of at times completely blank, very quizzical, and often irritated. 627 00:29:33,125 --> 00:29:35,285 Speaker 2: And at first I thought it was a general thing, 628 00:29:35,685 --> 00:29:37,805 Speaker 2: but then I started to notice the delight in which 629 00:29:37,845 --> 00:29:40,925 Speaker 2: he greeted his parents, you know, with a smile, or 630 00:29:40,925 --> 00:29:46,685 Speaker 2: I hate dad. Hey. He wouldn't use my name, he'd 631 00:29:46,725 --> 00:29:48,845 Speaker 2: go Hi like that to me. He was just off 632 00:29:48,925 --> 00:29:51,885 Speaker 2: with me. He wasn't warm, And I remember one day 633 00:29:51,885 --> 00:29:53,125 Speaker 2: I went to kiss him on the lips and he 634 00:29:53,245 --> 00:29:58,485 Speaker 2: was like that. And then there was a key moment 635 00:29:58,565 --> 00:30:03,085 Speaker 2: where a friend came in. Jacob plays the ukulelean. He 636 00:30:03,085 --> 00:30:05,885 Speaker 2: plays the ukule. He brought his ukulelean. I went Jamie's 637 00:30:05,885 --> 00:30:07,645 Speaker 2: coming to see you, and he went, great, did you 638 00:30:07,645 --> 00:30:10,085 Speaker 2: wait outside? Keys? Could you wait out? And I felt 639 00:30:10,165 --> 00:30:13,285 Speaker 2: something was very off. So there were just these little 640 00:30:13,325 --> 00:30:15,205 Speaker 2: things where it's like something's not right here. 641 00:30:16,125 --> 00:30:19,925 Speaker 1: And when did you realize that not only was something 642 00:30:20,165 --> 00:30:22,925 Speaker 1: not right, but it was really really wrong. 643 00:30:23,925 --> 00:30:26,845 Speaker 2: When it came to you, I'd filmed him one day 644 00:30:26,965 --> 00:30:28,965 Speaker 2: we were all outside. We'd taken him we bought our dog. 645 00:30:29,085 --> 00:30:30,805 Speaker 2: The joy of him seeing our dog. We have a 646 00:30:30,845 --> 00:30:33,405 Speaker 2: really lovely dog called Styler. It was kind of a 647 00:30:33,485 --> 00:30:36,805 Speaker 2: key character in the book. And he was so overjoyed 648 00:30:36,845 --> 00:30:39,085 Speaker 2: to see the dog, and everyone was like, isn't this amazing? 649 00:30:39,125 --> 00:30:41,405 Speaker 2: And I there's one of two things I'm filming him. 650 00:30:41,405 --> 00:30:42,765 Speaker 2: And the first thing is that I'm talking to him 651 00:30:42,805 --> 00:30:45,165 Speaker 2: like he's a child. It mortifies me now. But the 652 00:30:45,205 --> 00:30:47,285 Speaker 2: second thing is whenever I say, hey, Jake, isn't it great, 653 00:30:47,325 --> 00:30:49,205 Speaker 2: he turns and looks at me and he looks straight 654 00:30:49,245 --> 00:30:53,685 Speaker 2: at the camera and it's like and I'm like, something's 655 00:30:53,725 --> 00:30:56,485 Speaker 2: not right. And then it really distilled on Valentine's Day. 656 00:30:56,485 --> 00:30:58,165 Speaker 2: I went in on Valentine's Day and I bought him 657 00:30:58,165 --> 00:31:00,965 Speaker 2: a really cheesy red cell phone heart and I tied 658 00:31:01,005 --> 00:31:02,645 Speaker 2: it to the end of his bed. And I talk 659 00:31:02,685 --> 00:31:06,165 Speaker 2: about this, but actually the nurses had very sweetly bought 660 00:31:06,205 --> 00:31:08,325 Speaker 2: everybody these really sort of cheap red roses, you know, 661 00:31:08,365 --> 00:31:09,645 Speaker 2: the kind of thing you get on ahole day. And 662 00:31:09,725 --> 00:31:11,805 Speaker 2: she was like, j J, give your wife, give your 663 00:31:11,845 --> 00:31:15,765 Speaker 2: wife a rose. And he said, she's not my wife. 664 00:31:16,325 --> 00:31:18,165 Speaker 2: And in that moment, I went, well, actually's kind of right, 665 00:31:18,205 --> 00:31:20,125 Speaker 2: because you know I'm his girlfriend, I mean, his partner, 666 00:31:20,205 --> 00:31:22,405 Speaker 2: not a wor you know, it's the constant game I'm playing. 667 00:31:22,485 --> 00:31:23,445 Speaker 1: Yeah, because you weren't married. 668 00:31:23,565 --> 00:31:25,485 Speaker 2: I weren't married. But very quickly I went, what do 669 00:31:25,525 --> 00:31:27,565 Speaker 2: you mean? And I started to ask questions and you went. 670 00:31:28,205 --> 00:31:29,525 Speaker 2: I said, do you know how? He says, I don't 671 00:31:29,525 --> 00:31:31,405 Speaker 2: know who you are. I don't know how you're fooling everyone. 672 00:31:32,205 --> 00:31:34,405 Speaker 2: That became the first and I was like, where is Abby? 673 00:31:34,485 --> 00:31:38,245 Speaker 2: He says, you're not Abbi Morgan? And I said, well, 674 00:31:38,685 --> 00:31:40,845 Speaker 2: where is Abbi Morgan? Then he went, and she's gone. 675 00:31:41,045 --> 00:31:43,365 Speaker 2: She's got a new life with someone else. So he 676 00:31:43,445 --> 00:31:47,165 Speaker 2: did this thing called fabulation, which is where if you're 677 00:31:47,205 --> 00:31:49,445 Speaker 2: not sure of your you know, it often comes out 678 00:31:49,445 --> 00:31:50,885 Speaker 2: of you know, if you've gone through any kind of 679 00:31:50,885 --> 00:31:53,685 Speaker 2: brain injury, car accident, you've got gaps in your memory, 680 00:31:53,765 --> 00:31:55,845 Speaker 2: so you fabulate. Your brain tries to make sense, so 681 00:31:55,885 --> 00:31:58,325 Speaker 2: it tells itself stories. So the story he told himself 682 00:31:58,445 --> 00:32:01,045 Speaker 2: was that I had I had left him, and that 683 00:32:01,125 --> 00:32:04,085 Speaker 2: he was now living in an apartment overlooking Hampstead Heath. 684 00:32:04,085 --> 00:32:06,045 Speaker 2: And it's quite funny because Jake and I both have 685 00:32:06,085 --> 00:32:08,685 Speaker 2: a dream of having an apartment overlooking Hampstead Heath. So 686 00:32:08,685 --> 00:32:11,525 Speaker 2: in this memory, he'd already gone there, he'd moved and 687 00:32:11,565 --> 00:32:13,645 Speaker 2: he was loving it, and I had run off with 688 00:32:13,725 --> 00:32:16,605 Speaker 2: someone else, and I was I had a new life 689 00:32:16,645 --> 00:32:20,445 Speaker 2: for someone else, and so that, you know, at first, 690 00:32:20,525 --> 00:32:22,685 Speaker 2: it was just incredulous. I mean, I think I remember 691 00:32:22,685 --> 00:32:24,725 Speaker 2: I started to shake and I talk. It felt like 692 00:32:24,725 --> 00:32:28,205 Speaker 2: the subway was underneath me. I remember driving in the 693 00:32:28,205 --> 00:32:30,365 Speaker 2: same to my sister. My sister called dog because I'm 694 00:32:30,405 --> 00:32:32,325 Speaker 2: the same dogs. He doesn't know who I am. And 695 00:32:32,365 --> 00:32:34,325 Speaker 2: you know that can't be true, and that's not true. 696 00:32:34,365 --> 00:32:36,645 Speaker 2: It's really not true. And of course that's everyone's natural 697 00:32:36,645 --> 00:32:39,925 Speaker 2: reaction because they feel huge pain for you. It's so bizarre. 698 00:32:40,285 --> 00:32:42,325 Speaker 2: It's such a cliche, which is what I talk about. 699 00:32:42,365 --> 00:32:44,365 Speaker 2: You know, it's such a bloody cliche. It's such a 700 00:32:44,525 --> 00:32:48,725 Speaker 2: It felt like a bad, bad plot twist, but it's 701 00:32:48,765 --> 00:32:51,285 Speaker 2: out of body again and that adrenaline picks in again, 702 00:32:51,325 --> 00:32:53,245 Speaker 2: and you're like, it's surreal. It's surreal. 703 00:32:53,685 --> 00:32:56,125 Speaker 1: But it's not even a cliche, because a cliche is 704 00:32:56,165 --> 00:32:59,565 Speaker 1: like something that you've heard so many times. 705 00:32:59,605 --> 00:33:02,205 Speaker 2: I suppose it's a movie trope. It's a movie trope. 706 00:33:02,245 --> 00:33:04,925 Speaker 1: Well, the movie trope is that he wakes up and 707 00:33:04,965 --> 00:33:08,045 Speaker 1: they don't remember anyone, no anything or who they are, right, 708 00:33:08,125 --> 00:33:11,285 Speaker 1: So like amnesia. I am understand, but I've never heard 709 00:33:11,325 --> 00:33:15,405 Speaker 1: of someone selectively forgetting Yeah, one person. 710 00:33:15,565 --> 00:33:18,445 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's a very That's the next book because 711 00:33:18,445 --> 00:33:21,605 Speaker 2: I think there's something really interesting. I mean, what became 712 00:33:21,645 --> 00:33:23,925 Speaker 2: apparent was that, and it was really my son. My 713 00:33:24,045 --> 00:33:26,605 Speaker 2: son was the kind of key to this, because you know, 714 00:33:26,765 --> 00:33:29,205 Speaker 2: I was known as doctor Google and it's a gift 715 00:33:29,245 --> 00:33:31,445 Speaker 2: I had passed on to my son because he said, Mom, 716 00:33:31,445 --> 00:33:34,485 Speaker 2: if you had this thing called capgra delusion And I 717 00:33:34,565 --> 00:33:36,805 Speaker 2: was like no, and he went, it's it's where there's 718 00:33:36,845 --> 00:33:41,365 Speaker 2: a severance between the visual and the emotional identity. So 719 00:33:41,405 --> 00:33:43,845 Speaker 2: what happens is when we look at somebody, we not 720 00:33:43,925 --> 00:33:46,325 Speaker 2: only go oh, yes, it's it's Mia Hi. 721 00:33:46,445 --> 00:33:46,885 Speaker 1: How are you? 722 00:33:47,165 --> 00:33:49,045 Speaker 2: We go oh yeah, I love that, I love her. 723 00:33:49,085 --> 00:33:51,405 Speaker 2: I've got that I have a feeling towards you. With 724 00:33:51,525 --> 00:33:55,285 Speaker 2: Capra that that becomes severed, and it's often focused on 725 00:33:55,365 --> 00:33:59,045 Speaker 2: a particular relationship. It's often focused on someone you're close to. 726 00:33:59,045 --> 00:34:00,205 Speaker 2: It can be on a house, it can be on 727 00:34:00,205 --> 00:34:03,605 Speaker 2: a dog, and in this case it's it's called the 728 00:34:03,645 --> 00:34:06,565 Speaker 2: syndrome of the impostors or the delusion of doubles, and 729 00:34:06,605 --> 00:34:09,125 Speaker 2: it's the belief that the person it's not that I 730 00:34:09,125 --> 00:34:12,005 Speaker 2: did exist, it's not that they don't believe that I exist, 731 00:34:12,045 --> 00:34:14,765 Speaker 2: it's that that person has been replaced by an impostor. 732 00:34:14,845 --> 00:34:18,405 Speaker 2: So to Jacob, I was an impostor. Yeah, it's surreal, 733 00:34:18,565 --> 00:34:21,445 Speaker 2: it's it was, I mean, so that was It was 734 00:34:21,485 --> 00:34:24,285 Speaker 2: really Jesse and it was incredible to kind of get that. 735 00:34:24,325 --> 00:34:26,485 Speaker 2: And I spoke to the psychiatrists. He said, well, look, 736 00:34:26,485 --> 00:34:28,685 Speaker 2: it's really unusual to get this out of en caphalitis. 737 00:34:29,085 --> 00:34:32,085 Speaker 2: It's often found in dementia cases, you know, different kinds 738 00:34:32,085 --> 00:34:34,285 Speaker 2: of dementia, but it's very unusual with someone of Jake's 739 00:34:34,285 --> 00:34:36,525 Speaker 2: age to get it, and it often comes out of 740 00:34:36,605 --> 00:34:38,605 Speaker 2: if you've had a brain injury as a result of 741 00:34:38,605 --> 00:34:41,405 Speaker 2: a car crash. It would be very unusual in the 742 00:34:41,405 --> 00:34:43,925 Speaker 2: result of en caphealitis. Subsequently, I have heard of it happening, 743 00:34:44,005 --> 00:34:47,365 Speaker 2: but it is very rare. So when I actually sort 744 00:34:47,365 --> 00:34:49,245 Speaker 2: of approached the psychiatrist, said what the hell do we 745 00:34:49,245 --> 00:34:52,045 Speaker 2: do about this? Because they said one of two things. 746 00:34:52,085 --> 00:34:54,885 Speaker 2: They said, well, we work on a think called theory 747 00:34:54,965 --> 00:34:57,365 Speaker 2: A theory B. So theory A is you're absolute right, Jake, 748 00:34:57,445 --> 00:35:00,005 Speaker 2: one hundred percent. This is not Abby Morgan, your partner, 749 00:35:00,485 --> 00:35:03,245 Speaker 2: not your wife, your partner. But theory B is we 750 00:35:03,325 --> 00:35:05,405 Speaker 2: can never be one hundred percent sure of anything. So 751 00:35:05,445 --> 00:35:07,885 Speaker 2: let's say ninety nine percent she's not Abby Morgan. But 752 00:35:07,965 --> 00:35:10,125 Speaker 2: let's just say this one percent. Can you take this 753 00:35:10,285 --> 00:35:13,205 Speaker 2: a one percent possibility? And the idea is every day 754 00:35:13,445 --> 00:35:16,405 Speaker 2: you slowly build, so you two percent five percent temper 755 00:35:16,405 --> 00:35:19,485 Speaker 2: So the ideas you start to tip the balance of rationale. 756 00:35:19,725 --> 00:35:21,885 Speaker 2: And the second thing is if it doesn't go within 757 00:35:21,925 --> 00:35:25,005 Speaker 2: three and a half months, it's unlikely to go. It's here. 758 00:35:25,645 --> 00:35:28,045 Speaker 2: So there was a sort of pressure so we all went, 759 00:35:28,125 --> 00:35:30,485 Speaker 2: you know, in the initial it was like, okay, yep, 760 00:35:30,605 --> 00:35:34,605 Speaker 2: we will we'll do this thing. We'll do the theory 761 00:35:34,645 --> 00:35:36,445 Speaker 2: O theory B. And it wasn't just me that was 762 00:35:36,445 --> 00:35:39,285 Speaker 2: finding it very Difficultviously, my children found it incredibly upsetting. 763 00:35:39,525 --> 00:35:42,165 Speaker 2: Jake's family found it. My family found it really difficult. 764 00:35:42,645 --> 00:35:45,125 Speaker 2: You know. So there was a day where I'd photocopied 765 00:35:45,245 --> 00:35:47,445 Speaker 2: we had to do a book. Hi, my name's Jacob. 766 00:35:47,845 --> 00:35:49,445 Speaker 2: We made a book for him. They said, make a book. 767 00:35:49,445 --> 00:35:51,245 Speaker 2: So you can start to read about his like, my 768 00:35:51,365 --> 00:35:54,085 Speaker 2: name's Jacob, I love football, I have a son called Jesse, 769 00:35:54,165 --> 00:35:57,085 Speaker 2: a daughter called Mabel. My partner's name is Abby. And 770 00:35:57,125 --> 00:35:58,885 Speaker 2: every time he saw that photo of me, he'd just 771 00:35:58,925 --> 00:36:01,845 Speaker 2: sweep over. And then I bought him lots of photos 772 00:36:01,885 --> 00:36:03,525 Speaker 2: of all the family to put around so you could 773 00:36:03,565 --> 00:36:06,045 Speaker 2: look at all the family members. And I came in 774 00:36:06,085 --> 00:36:08,325 Speaker 2: and I was like, where's my photo and they said, look, 775 00:36:08,485 --> 00:36:10,405 Speaker 2: really sorry, we have to it right behind the Birdie 776 00:36:10,405 --> 00:36:14,165 Speaker 2: doesn't want to look at it. So we had all 777 00:36:14,205 --> 00:36:17,805 Speaker 2: of that going on, and also I just started to 778 00:36:17,805 --> 00:36:20,605 Speaker 2: get pissed off on board with it. So I just 779 00:36:20,765 --> 00:36:23,365 Speaker 2: start of went, I mean, it's laughable some of the 780 00:36:23,445 --> 00:36:25,925 Speaker 2: videos I've got. So I'm coming in and I'm going, hi, Jake, 781 00:36:25,965 --> 00:36:27,605 Speaker 2: it's Abbey. Went no, it's not Abby, and I went, 782 00:36:27,765 --> 00:36:28,845 Speaker 2: yes it is. No it's not. 783 00:36:29,005 --> 00:36:31,325 Speaker 3: Yes it is no, it's not. Okay, let's agree to differ. 784 00:36:31,605 --> 00:36:33,845 Speaker 3: So we did all of that version. Oh my god, 785 00:36:33,925 --> 00:36:35,525 Speaker 3: I mean, it went on with the bat and forth. 786 00:36:35,525 --> 00:36:38,925 Speaker 3: But the other thing we would do would be I 787 00:36:38,925 --> 00:36:40,525 Speaker 3: would go, my Abbe Morgan today. 788 00:36:40,285 --> 00:36:42,445 Speaker 2: And he went, you're definitely not Abbi Morgan, and so 789 00:36:42,525 --> 00:36:45,205 Speaker 2: I loved that, even though he would be At first 790 00:36:45,245 --> 00:36:48,365 Speaker 2: he was very resistant to me. He then started to go. 791 00:36:48,845 --> 00:36:51,045 Speaker 2: I came one day and he said, you're working for 792 00:36:51,085 --> 00:36:54,725 Speaker 2: the state, aren't you? And I went yeah. He said, 793 00:36:55,125 --> 00:36:57,085 Speaker 2: why else would you be so interested in my You know, 794 00:36:57,125 --> 00:37:00,325 Speaker 2: we had various conversations which I talk around the children, 795 00:37:00,365 --> 00:37:02,645 Speaker 2: but he said I think you must be working for 796 00:37:02,685 --> 00:37:04,085 Speaker 2: the state and I went, yeah, I've come to work 797 00:37:04,085 --> 00:37:06,485 Speaker 2: for the state and he said, I said, is that okay? 798 00:37:06,485 --> 00:37:08,365 Speaker 2: He said yeah. I said I'm here for the state 799 00:37:08,365 --> 00:37:09,725 Speaker 2: and said, so that's where you held help me and 800 00:37:09,765 --> 00:37:11,885 Speaker 2: the kids, And I went, yeah, yeah, that's where I am. 801 00:37:11,965 --> 00:37:13,805 Speaker 2: So that became why we settled. 802 00:37:13,845 --> 00:37:16,725 Speaker 1: Which did that feel like a betrayal though of yourself? 803 00:37:16,805 --> 00:37:19,925 Speaker 1: Like did you want to just argue with him all 804 00:37:19,965 --> 00:37:22,445 Speaker 1: the time, like to say, yeah, I work for the state? 805 00:37:22,565 --> 00:37:23,925 Speaker 1: I mean, did you well? 806 00:37:24,605 --> 00:37:26,245 Speaker 2: One of two things I kept on thinking, this is 807 00:37:26,285 --> 00:37:29,445 Speaker 2: such great material, this is so funny. The other thing 808 00:37:29,485 --> 00:37:32,325 Speaker 2: was like this is I was generally found it funny. 809 00:37:32,725 --> 00:37:35,165 Speaker 2: I was also there was two things that was funny 810 00:37:35,205 --> 00:37:37,685 Speaker 2: and hysteria or running one. And the hysteria was to 811 00:37:37,725 --> 00:37:42,325 Speaker 2: do with being really effing frightened because it's very it's deeply, 812 00:37:42,885 --> 00:37:46,885 Speaker 2: deeply creepy when the person you love looks at you blankly, 813 00:37:47,765 --> 00:37:51,165 Speaker 2: it's deeply creepy. So also humiliating, very humiliating, And the 814 00:37:51,205 --> 00:37:53,805 Speaker 2: biggest thing that nobody told me about this whole experience then, 815 00:37:54,125 --> 00:37:56,685 Speaker 2: even though intellectually I'm like, why the hell would you 816 00:37:56,685 --> 00:38:00,525 Speaker 2: feel like that? But emotionally, across the gamut of the 817 00:38:00,565 --> 00:38:04,525 Speaker 2: illnesses that we experienced, but particularly this humiliation was a 818 00:38:04,565 --> 00:38:07,005 Speaker 2: big part of it. And pride. And there's a great 819 00:38:07,085 --> 00:38:10,205 Speaker 2: quote by Nora Efron which is her both her parents 820 00:38:10,205 --> 00:38:13,405 Speaker 2: were writers, and her mother was the one that really 821 00:38:13,405 --> 00:38:16,365 Speaker 2: coined the phrase, you know everything's copy. But what Nora 822 00:38:16,445 --> 00:38:18,005 Speaker 2: efernce ofd what I came to I was about my 823 00:38:18,045 --> 00:38:21,445 Speaker 2: mother is that she says, when you slip on a 824 00:38:21,525 --> 00:38:26,565 Speaker 2: banana skin, people laugh, But when you write about it 825 00:38:26,565 --> 00:38:29,045 Speaker 2: and say I know I've slipped on a banana skin, 826 00:38:29,245 --> 00:38:31,325 Speaker 2: you're the one that laughs. And I think there's a 827 00:38:31,365 --> 00:38:33,285 Speaker 2: truth to that. Is that I had to go, I 828 00:38:33,325 --> 00:38:36,365 Speaker 2: know what's happening here, guys, because I think there's nothing 829 00:38:36,445 --> 00:38:39,925 Speaker 2: more humiliating than being told to leave the room. Because 830 00:38:40,725 --> 00:38:43,725 Speaker 2: you know, some very sweet ladies arrived to read the 831 00:38:43,765 --> 00:38:47,085 Speaker 2: book that You've given him for Christmas to him, and 832 00:38:47,205 --> 00:38:49,085 Speaker 2: he doesn't want you there because you're a stranger, but 833 00:38:49,165 --> 00:38:51,525 Speaker 2: she's someone he's really got to know. I mean, that's 834 00:38:51,565 --> 00:38:53,725 Speaker 2: where you start to feelucky, you said, lover, That's where 835 00:38:53,725 --> 00:38:56,245 Speaker 2: you start to feel this weird jealousy. And it definitely, 836 00:38:56,685 --> 00:39:00,245 Speaker 2: you know, I defy anyone not to have to manage 837 00:39:00,365 --> 00:39:03,285 Speaker 2: huge tensions. I mean, Jade's family were pretty bloody amazing 838 00:39:03,325 --> 00:39:07,325 Speaker 2: because I was raging and I was very territorial over him. 839 00:39:07,645 --> 00:39:09,165 Speaker 2: But the biggest thing I felt was I had to 840 00:39:09,525 --> 00:39:11,325 Speaker 2: a way to stay in the room with him, because 841 00:39:11,365 --> 00:39:15,205 Speaker 2: my worry was I was losing not only you know, 842 00:39:15,325 --> 00:39:17,245 Speaker 2: Heedless his sense of identity for me, but I was 843 00:39:17,285 --> 00:39:20,285 Speaker 2: losing the sense of my identity. And that was really frightening. 844 00:39:20,325 --> 00:39:22,765 Speaker 2: And somehow, if I didn't keep staying in the room 845 00:39:22,805 --> 00:39:25,765 Speaker 2: and chipping away and almost the act of resistance in 846 00:39:25,765 --> 00:39:27,365 Speaker 2: a way, do I was to go, yeah, you're right, 847 00:39:27,405 --> 00:39:29,405 Speaker 2: I work for the state. You believe whatever you want. 848 00:39:29,525 --> 00:39:31,445 Speaker 2: I know who I am. If that's going to shut 849 00:39:31,485 --> 00:39:33,725 Speaker 2: you up, you believe in the state, I will come 850 00:39:33,805 --> 00:39:35,365 Speaker 2: in and still be the lady from the state. And 851 00:39:35,405 --> 00:39:36,765 Speaker 2: whilst I was there, I was able to go, well, 852 00:39:36,765 --> 00:39:38,365 Speaker 2: there's someone from the state. Let's go out and have 853 00:39:38,445 --> 00:39:40,605 Speaker 2: tea as for someone from the state. Let me tell 854 00:39:40,645 --> 00:39:42,645 Speaker 2: you all the things I know about you, Jay, So 855 00:39:42,805 --> 00:39:45,685 Speaker 2: I would like one day, I said, quiz me. Ask 856 00:39:45,765 --> 00:39:48,725 Speaker 2: me anything you want about yourself and I'll know the answer. 857 00:39:49,005 --> 00:39:50,965 Speaker 2: And I got every single question right. So it was like, 858 00:39:51,005 --> 00:39:52,965 Speaker 2: what was the name of my first dog? Where did 859 00:39:53,005 --> 00:39:57,325 Speaker 2: I have an accident? What's my favorite Tottenham Hotspur player? Ever? 860 00:39:57,725 --> 00:40:00,365 Speaker 2: You know? And I knew every single answer, And instead 861 00:40:00,365 --> 00:40:02,005 Speaker 2: of looking at me like, oh my gosh, I can't 862 00:40:02,005 --> 00:40:05,125 Speaker 2: believe it it's you, he'd be like, how you doing that. 863 00:40:05,445 --> 00:40:07,965 Speaker 2: It was always like, there's a trick. There's a trick here. 864 00:40:08,045 --> 00:40:11,405 Speaker 2: I don't know how you're doing that. So yeah, it 865 00:40:11,445 --> 00:40:15,325 Speaker 2: was peculiar. It was really really peculiar and very eroding 866 00:40:15,365 --> 00:40:19,285 Speaker 2: and at times absolutely heartbreaking, really really, but there was 867 00:40:19,325 --> 00:40:21,605 Speaker 2: also something that very key happened in that, which was 868 00:40:21,685 --> 00:40:24,285 Speaker 2: it stopped being about me getting Jade back for me 869 00:40:25,125 --> 00:40:33,045 Speaker 2: and I just this is where I get emotional. He's 870 00:40:33,125 --> 00:40:36,605 Speaker 2: such a great person. He's such a not just a 871 00:40:36,605 --> 00:40:40,165 Speaker 2: great father, not just a great husband or a friend. 872 00:40:40,245 --> 00:40:44,605 Speaker 2: He's such a great guy. And I needed him to 873 00:40:44,605 --> 00:40:47,805 Speaker 2: get back in the world to get and that became 874 00:40:47,845 --> 00:40:50,285 Speaker 2: bigger than me. That became bigger than whether he knew 875 00:40:50,365 --> 00:40:51,685 Speaker 2: me or not. I just needed to make sure he 876 00:40:51,765 --> 00:40:54,885 Speaker 2: got back out in the world again because I just 877 00:40:55,485 --> 00:40:58,165 Speaker 2: and I call it the hum of love. He drives 878 00:40:58,165 --> 00:40:59,845 Speaker 2: it at the wall. You know, we have loads of things, 879 00:40:59,885 --> 00:41:03,045 Speaker 2: you know, antisocial, social. I want to party, he doesn't. 880 00:41:03,245 --> 00:41:04,685 Speaker 2: I don't want to party, he does. You know, I've 881 00:41:04,685 --> 00:41:06,485 Speaker 2: got loads of that shit. We've got all the tensions. 882 00:41:06,605 --> 00:41:10,245 Speaker 2: But irrespective of whether Jake's my part, I want to 883 00:41:10,245 --> 00:41:11,765 Speaker 2: look across the room and go good. I was glad. 884 00:41:11,805 --> 00:41:14,205 Speaker 2: I spent eighteen years with that guy. I used to 885 00:41:14,245 --> 00:41:17,365 Speaker 2: know him, I loved him, I helped getting better. I 886 00:41:17,405 --> 00:41:19,845 Speaker 2: helped getting better as one element, and he's out in 887 00:41:19,845 --> 00:41:22,245 Speaker 2: the world again. And so that became my motivator, and 888 00:41:22,285 --> 00:41:24,565 Speaker 2: it was incredibly liberating when I let go of trying 889 00:41:24,605 --> 00:41:27,645 Speaker 2: to get Jake back for myself. You know, the day 890 00:41:27,725 --> 00:41:31,165 Speaker 2: Jake collapsed is the day that my relationship that I 891 00:41:31,205 --> 00:41:34,325 Speaker 2: had with Jake ended, and the day Jake started to 892 00:41:34,325 --> 00:41:36,885 Speaker 2: properly recover is when my new relationship started with him. 893 00:41:36,885 --> 00:41:39,645 Speaker 2: But it's not the same relationship, and it comes right 894 00:41:39,685 --> 00:41:42,165 Speaker 2: back to and I've not said this to actually anyone, 895 00:41:42,165 --> 00:41:43,845 Speaker 2: but I don't really care, because i'd say to Jake 896 00:41:43,885 --> 00:41:48,125 Speaker 2: as well. But I can forgive what's happened, but I 897 00:41:48,165 --> 00:41:51,405 Speaker 2: can never forget that it was me that he didn't remember. 898 00:41:52,205 --> 00:41:55,885 Speaker 2: And I still circle where that is. And I you know, 899 00:41:55,925 --> 00:41:58,045 Speaker 2: when you lean into side, it's like a trust exercise. 900 00:41:58,125 --> 00:41:59,805 Speaker 2: If you fall back into the arms of someone, you 901 00:41:59,845 --> 00:42:02,005 Speaker 2: have to know they can still hold you. And I 902 00:42:02,085 --> 00:42:04,605 Speaker 2: don't know if I will ever truly be able to 903 00:42:04,725 --> 00:42:10,485 Speaker 2: trust again that on a really profound level, does Jake 904 00:42:10,765 --> 00:42:14,365 Speaker 2: really really truly know who I am now? And why 905 00:42:14,485 --> 00:42:17,205 Speaker 2: was it me? And it's that's something I'll circle forever, 906 00:42:17,365 --> 00:42:20,285 Speaker 2: you know. So there was an ending somewhere in the 907 00:42:20,325 --> 00:42:21,965 Speaker 2: middle of that, and there was a moment where I 908 00:42:22,005 --> 00:42:24,285 Speaker 2: had to go, I have to let go of trying 909 00:42:24,325 --> 00:42:28,245 Speaker 2: to get him back for me, and I have to 910 00:42:28,285 --> 00:42:30,445 Speaker 2: start to try and get him back because he's worth 911 00:42:31,245 --> 00:42:33,645 Speaker 2: restoring and helping getting back to the best he can be. 912 00:42:33,925 --> 00:42:36,325 Speaker 2: So that that really became my focus, and I became 913 00:42:36,325 --> 00:42:39,005 Speaker 2: a I hope, a much nicer person. Then I stopped 914 00:42:39,045 --> 00:42:41,725 Speaker 2: growling at everybody. I mean, I was pretty bloody awful 915 00:42:41,925 --> 00:42:47,165 Speaker 2: at times. I was Growley and I was relentless. I 916 00:42:47,205 --> 00:42:49,525 Speaker 2: was relent you know, you know when widows throw themselves 917 00:42:49,525 --> 00:42:53,165 Speaker 2: on coffins. I understood that. I understood that I would 918 00:42:53,165 --> 00:42:56,805 Speaker 2: sort of throw myself across Jake because the sort of 919 00:42:57,325 --> 00:42:58,685 Speaker 2: you know when you have a baby and you almost 920 00:42:58,685 --> 00:43:00,645 Speaker 2: want to eat him up, You always want to eat 921 00:43:00,645 --> 00:43:02,925 Speaker 2: you know, the baby. I felt like that about Jacob. 922 00:43:03,005 --> 00:43:05,885 Speaker 2: I wanted to consume him. That was how much I needed. 923 00:43:06,165 --> 00:43:09,085 Speaker 2: That was how much my connection was. And when I 924 00:43:09,485 --> 00:43:11,445 Speaker 2: nice step back and went, you've got to let go 925 00:43:11,485 --> 00:43:14,285 Speaker 2: of that connection. You've got to start to be part 926 00:43:14,325 --> 00:43:16,245 Speaker 2: of the collective that's going to help get him better, 927 00:43:16,525 --> 00:43:20,605 Speaker 2: then that became it became much more manageable as an experience. 928 00:43:20,685 --> 00:43:23,165 Speaker 2: I think I haven't ready spoken about that before, but 929 00:43:23,205 --> 00:43:23,645 Speaker 2: that's that. 930 00:43:23,805 --> 00:43:29,725 Speaker 1: Yeah, I told you this story was incredible and that 931 00:43:29,765 --> 00:43:32,085 Speaker 1: there were plot twists and there are more for Mum 932 00:43:32,165 --> 00:43:34,765 Speaker 1: and Maya subscribers to listen to right now. 933 00:43:35,005 --> 00:43:37,485 Speaker 2: It was such a bad plot twist, But you know, 934 00:43:37,565 --> 00:43:40,725 Speaker 2: I think when when when crisis and disaster happens, it 935 00:43:40,885 --> 00:43:42,765 Speaker 2: does kind of come in threes, you know, it does 936 00:43:42,805 --> 00:43:44,805 Speaker 2: you know things do you sort of I don't know 937 00:43:44,805 --> 00:43:47,525 Speaker 2: whether it's an energy thing I still think. Listen, I 938 00:43:47,525 --> 00:43:50,005 Speaker 2: think I would always have got breast cancer. Unfortunately, I 939 00:43:50,005 --> 00:43:52,325 Speaker 2: don't think it was Jake's fault, but I think a 940 00:43:52,365 --> 00:43:55,725 Speaker 2: couple of things. I think I ignored it for that 941 00:43:55,805 --> 00:43:57,005 Speaker 2: sort of nine months. 942 00:43:57,525 --> 00:44:00,165 Speaker 1: On this subscriber episode, we talk about another twist that 943 00:44:00,205 --> 00:44:04,645 Speaker 1: nobody saw coming, and even Abby agreed was a little melodramatic, 944 00:44:04,885 --> 00:44:08,165 Speaker 1: but you know, some might say overblown, except that it 945 00:44:08,205 --> 00:44:11,085 Speaker 1: actually happened. And we also talk about where things are 946 00:44:11,085 --> 00:44:14,485 Speaker 1: at now with Jacob and with their relationship. Just follow 947 00:44:14,525 --> 00:44:17,485 Speaker 1: the links in our show notes to listen. Subscribing to 948 00:44:17,565 --> 00:44:20,805 Speaker 1: Mumma Mea only costs less than six dollars a month 949 00:44:21,045 --> 00:44:23,965 Speaker 1: and you'll be supporting women's media. You can also find 950 00:44:24,005 --> 00:44:26,365 Speaker 1: Abby's book, Not a Pity Memoir by the link in 951 00:44:26,405 --> 00:44:30,045 Speaker 1: our show notes. Highly recommend that you do. It's absolutely 952 00:44:30,085 --> 00:44:34,365 Speaker 1: brilliant and heartbreaking and funny and amazing and beautifully written 953 00:44:34,765 --> 00:44:38,205 Speaker 1: because Abby is such a talented writer. And also watch 954 00:44:38,285 --> 00:44:41,925 Speaker 1: The Split now season three. I think is available on iView, 955 00:44:42,485 --> 00:44:47,605 Speaker 1: but wherever you watch it, it is truly brilliant. The 956 00:44:47,645 --> 00:44:51,165 Speaker 1: assistant producer of No Filter is Emmeline Peterson. The executive 957 00:44:51,205 --> 00:44:54,925 Speaker 1: producer is one Eliza Ratliffe and I'm Maya Friedman. Thanks 958 00:44:54,925 --> 00:44:57,885 Speaker 1: for having me in your ears. If you're looking for 959 00:44:57,925 --> 00:45:00,765 Speaker 1: something else to listen to, like and follow all of 960 00:45:00,805 --> 00:45:03,605 Speaker 1: our Muma Mea podcasts, which are currently bringing you hot 961 00:45:03,645 --> 00:45:06,845 Speaker 1: pod Summer one hundred hours of Summer listens from spicy 962 00:45:06,845 --> 00:45:11,485 Speaker 1: conversations to incredible stories fash beauty where the friends in 963 00:45:11,525 --> 00:45:12,725 Speaker 1: your Ear is over Summer