WEBVTT - Dr Mo. Will Never Forget What He Saw In Gaza 0:00:10.365 --> 0:00:13.125 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:13.885 --> 0:00:16.885 Mama Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.885 --> 0:00:18.525 that this podcast is recorded on. 0:00:18.725 --> 0:00:21.645 Nothing can prepare you for Gaza. Gaza is just different. 0:00:21.925 --> 0:00:24.205 You have no idea whether you're going to be alive, 0:00:24.285 --> 0:00:27.725 whether you're going to be bombed, the level of injuries 0:00:27.725 --> 0:00:30.325 that you're seeing, and the lack of medical equipment, the 0:00:30.405 --> 0:00:32.765 lack of food. I mean, it is a scary place 0:00:32.805 --> 0:00:34.685 to go and work. You know, I really didn't want 0:00:34.685 --> 0:00:36.085 to leave. I wanted to stay and I wanted to 0:00:36.125 --> 0:00:40.005 continue working, but you know, I was told that I 0:00:40.045 --> 0:00:41.485 needed to leave for my own safety. 0:00:45.885 --> 0:00:51.205 I'm Jesse Stevens and welcome to No Filter. The conversation 0:00:51.365 --> 0:00:54.365 I'm about to share with you, which we recorded last week, 0:00:55.125 --> 0:00:58.525 was the most impactful of my career. I have not 0:00:58.645 --> 0:01:03.005 stopped thinking about it. Our guest today is doctor Mohammed 0:01:03.125 --> 0:01:07.725 Mustafa known as doctor Moe, a Perth based emergency doctor 0:01:07.965 --> 0:01:11.605 born to Palestinian parents and raised in the United Kingdom. 0:01:12.285 --> 0:01:15.085 In the last eighteen months, he has embarked on two 0:01:15.365 --> 0:01:19.925 medical missions to Gaza. While there, he did something he 0:01:20.005 --> 0:01:23.845 wasn't meant to. He pulled out his phone. He filmed, 0:01:24.285 --> 0:01:29.085 and then he published those videos to social media. Doctor 0:01:29.125 --> 0:01:33.525 Moe brought global attention to the suffering of Palestinian civilians, 0:01:33.805 --> 0:01:39.165 especially children. Alongside him, we saw the aftermath of a bombing, 0:01:40.085 --> 0:01:44.885 children with no access to pain relief or surgeons, hospitals 0:01:44.925 --> 0:01:49.405 with barely any resources running on the desperation of doctors 0:01:49.605 --> 0:01:55.005 whose lives were also at risk. Conversations about children suffering 0:01:55.125 --> 0:01:58.565 in any context are the hardest and the most necessary 0:01:58.645 --> 0:02:01.565 stories to listen to. That is what this story is. 0:02:02.405 --> 0:02:07.165 It includes graphic descriptions of the injury, suffering, and death 0:02:07.685 --> 0:02:13.005 that doctor Moe witnessed firsthand. It's confronting, and it speaks 0:02:13.045 --> 0:02:16.685 to the human toll of an ongoing, heartbreaking conflict that 0:02:16.725 --> 0:02:21.605 has claimed tens of thousands of lives. No one tells 0:02:21.645 --> 0:02:24.125 doctor Moe's story better than he does, so I will 0:02:24.165 --> 0:02:27.845 leave that to him. Here's my interview with doctor Moe. 0:02:29.285 --> 0:02:31.325 Hello doctor Mo, and welcome to No Filter. 0:02:32.125 --> 0:02:32.885 Thank you for having me. 0:02:33.925 --> 0:02:38.405 I wanted to begin today by asking you know, I 0:02:38.445 --> 0:02:41.885 know you've been on the ground in Gaza. You have 0:02:42.005 --> 0:02:45.165 seen things that most of us could never imagine. For 0:02:45.245 --> 0:02:48.645 most of us, this is headlines, this is Instagram, this 0:02:48.765 --> 0:02:53.525 is images that maybe we can put our phones down 0:02:53.565 --> 0:02:55.325 if we want, But for you, I wouldn't want to 0:02:55.325 --> 0:02:57.685 put words in your mouth. But it's a live trauma. 0:02:58.685 --> 0:03:02.485 How are you today? How are you going emotionally psychologically? 0:03:03.565 --> 0:03:06.325 So I don't want to make here about me, you know, 0:03:06.565 --> 0:03:09.925 and you know, I don't want to talk about how 0:03:09.965 --> 0:03:12.005 I'm coping and how I'm dealing with this because I 0:03:12.005 --> 0:03:15.565 feel like, you know, the most important thing is to 0:03:15.605 --> 0:03:18.485 center those people that are actively dying in Gaza, not 0:03:18.605 --> 0:03:20.725 me who's had breakfast this morning and had a cup 0:03:20.765 --> 0:03:23.125 of coffee. That's not who needs to be centered. Who 0:03:23.125 --> 0:03:25.805 needs to be centered as those one million children or 0:03:25.845 --> 0:03:28.685 however many of them are left in Gaza that are 0:03:28.765 --> 0:03:31.365 currently being staffed to death. That's what we need to 0:03:31.405 --> 0:03:34.125 talk about. And I understand, you know, people always say, 0:03:34.125 --> 0:03:37.285 how are you coping? How you doing? Listen, I'm not coping. 0:03:37.885 --> 0:03:40.965 You know. I'm tired. I've barely slept. I live out 0:03:40.965 --> 0:03:43.045 of a suitcase. Ever since I got back from Gaza, 0:03:43.045 --> 0:03:45.725 I've traveled around the world trying to make a tangible 0:03:45.765 --> 0:03:48.245 difference to what's going on. I've been pleading with the 0:03:48.245 --> 0:03:51.525 Prime Minister to meet with me. I've been working with 0:03:51.565 --> 0:03:55.085 different NGOs to bring the plans for a hospital to 0:03:55.085 --> 0:03:57.325 get it into Gaza. I'm trying to come up with 0:03:57.365 --> 0:03:59.445 solutions for what to do. I want the government to 0:03:59.445 --> 0:04:00.805 step in and do what they have to do, but 0:04:00.885 --> 0:04:03.925 unfortunately somebody like me has to step up and has 0:04:03.965 --> 0:04:05.965 to talk about what's going on, has to come up 0:04:06.005 --> 0:04:08.965 with solutions of what we can do because I don't 0:04:09.005 --> 0:04:10.725 see people doing it. I don't see people in the 0:04:10.725 --> 0:04:13.805 government doing it. And it's a very very scary thing 0:04:13.845 --> 0:04:15.525 to be and it's a very scary thing and to 0:04:15.605 --> 0:04:18.845 be where you know, you've got the whole weight of 0:04:18.885 --> 0:04:21.565 this on your shoulders, and I just sometimes it's a 0:04:21.605 --> 0:04:24.525 lonely road. It's a very very lonely road. Sometimes, you know, 0:04:24.565 --> 0:04:29.165 you get criticized. I get death threats, so you know, 0:04:29.365 --> 0:04:31.325 like how am I doing. I'm just I just put 0:04:31.325 --> 0:04:33.205 one foot in front of the other. Like that's it. 0:04:33.245 --> 0:04:34.725 I just keep putting one foot in front of the other. 0:04:34.765 --> 0:04:37.125 Turn up every single day, you know, and see what 0:04:37.165 --> 0:04:40.885 I can do. And you know, if I've just got 0:04:40.885 --> 0:04:42.365 to keep going, that's essentially it. 0:04:43.445 --> 0:04:45.725 I think that point that it's like you're asking ordinary, 0:04:45.765 --> 0:04:47.485 I would argue you're not that ordinary by the way, 0:04:47.485 --> 0:04:49.885 and we'll get to that, but people to do pretty 0:04:49.885 --> 0:04:53.725 extraordinary things. I want to go back to you. Are 0:04:54.365 --> 0:04:56.805 you grew up in the UK as the son of 0:04:57.005 --> 0:04:58.645 Palestinian refugees? Is that correct? 0:04:58.725 --> 0:05:00.925 Yeah? Yeah, my dad was born in Gaza. Yeah. 0:05:00.925 --> 0:05:04.485 What was that experience like growing up as someone with 0:05:04.725 --> 0:05:06.565 a Palestinian background in the UK. 0:05:08.605 --> 0:05:12.845 You know, look, I remember when we were first when 0:05:12.845 --> 0:05:14.845 I was first born, I was born in Mecca. You know. 0:05:14.885 --> 0:05:16.245 I moved over to the UK when I was four 0:05:16.365 --> 0:05:18.245 years old, But I remember when we were in Mecca, 0:05:18.285 --> 0:05:20.485 Like our house didn't have running water, you know, my 0:05:20.565 --> 0:05:22.365 dad used to there used to be a truck that 0:05:22.445 --> 0:05:24.605 used to arrive once a week and it used to 0:05:24.605 --> 0:05:26.645 have like barrels of water and that was our drinking water. 0:05:26.685 --> 0:05:28.965 So my dad used to go downstairs and like there 0:05:29.005 --> 0:05:31.285 was no elevator in this like apartment complex, as it 0:05:31.325 --> 0:05:33.485 was like a essentially like you know it like kind 0:05:33.485 --> 0:05:36.125 of like a ghettoized apartment complex. But he would walk 0:05:36.165 --> 0:05:38.165 down the stairs, it'd be like twenty flights of stairs, 0:05:38.485 --> 0:05:40.645 and he would carry this barrel of water, put it 0:05:40.725 --> 0:05:41.925 on his shoulders and he would carry it and that 0:05:41.925 --> 0:05:45.325 would be our drinking water. We had essentially a one 0:05:45.365 --> 0:05:47.565 bedroom apartment for five of us, Me and my two 0:05:47.605 --> 0:05:50.485 sisters and my mum and dad had a blanket between us. 0:05:50.925 --> 0:05:52.445 You know, that was our life when we grew up 0:05:52.485 --> 0:05:54.165 in Mecca and then we moved over to the UK. 0:05:54.845 --> 0:05:57.205 You know, my dad's a doctor, so when we moved 0:05:57.245 --> 0:05:59.205 over to the UK and he was working as a doctor, essentially, 0:05:59.205 --> 0:06:02.525 like he had to provide for everybody, you know, so 0:06:02.565 --> 0:06:05.925 we you know, I remember when we would when we 0:06:05.925 --> 0:06:08.885 were growing up, knowing that we had so many miles 0:06:08.885 --> 0:06:12.085 that we had to feedback home. Like the sacrifices that 0:06:12.125 --> 0:06:15.445 we would make as a family, you know, buying secondhand 0:06:15.445 --> 0:06:18.965 clothes all the time, and going to like grocery stores 0:06:19.045 --> 0:06:21.045 late at night when they would reduce items of food 0:06:21.205 --> 0:06:23.485 so we can buy that to eat. I mean, that's 0:06:23.525 --> 0:06:26.685 what it was like. But you know, look, my parents 0:06:26.685 --> 0:06:29.045 gave me an amazing life. I never once went hungry 0:06:29.085 --> 0:06:31.885 or anything like that. And you know my dad now 0:06:32.005 --> 0:06:34.245 is like the leading fertility specialist in the whole UK. 0:06:35.325 --> 0:06:35.725 Wow. 0:06:36.125 --> 0:06:39.565 So you know we're okay now. But you know, from 0:06:39.605 --> 0:06:41.405 where we've come from and where we are now is 0:06:42.085 --> 0:06:44.245 night and day. But that's what it's like growing up 0:06:44.245 --> 0:06:46.365 as a refugee, and not just like as a as 0:06:46.365 --> 0:06:48.565 a Palestinian, but anywhere in the world, Like when you 0:06:48.645 --> 0:06:52.525 get you know, stripped and taken out of your home 0:06:52.885 --> 0:06:55.925 and have to start with nothing. You know, my dad 0:06:55.925 --> 0:06:57.525 didn't known a pair of shoes to do was fifteen 0:06:57.605 --> 0:06:59.525 years old. He used to be barefoot up until the 0:06:59.565 --> 0:07:02.445 age of fifteen. His trousers or his pants that are 0:07:02.525 --> 0:07:06.165 used to wear were you know those USA aid flower bags. 0:07:06.885 --> 0:07:08.205 They used to cut a hole in it for his 0:07:08.285 --> 0:07:10.365 legs and then they used to just tie it up 0:07:10.365 --> 0:07:12.525 with some string and that would be his trousers. This 0:07:12.565 --> 0:07:14.165 is the level of poverty that my father had to 0:07:14.205 --> 0:07:18.325 deal with because his village was taken over and he 0:07:18.445 --> 0:07:21.645 was displaced and kicked out from his home and his village, 0:07:21.685 --> 0:07:23.805 and you know, he had to move into the refugee 0:07:23.845 --> 0:07:27.085 camps of Gaza because seventy percent of the Gaza population 0:07:27.245 --> 0:07:29.405 are refugees from what is today Israel. 0:07:29.605 --> 0:07:32.485 Were you aware growing up in the UK or did 0:07:32.525 --> 0:07:34.965 you have contact with extended family who still lived in 0:07:34.965 --> 0:07:35.685 Palestine at all? 0:07:35.805 --> 0:07:37.805 Yeah, I've got family in Gaza right now. I've got 0:07:37.845 --> 0:07:42.365 my uncle, my auntie, my cousin's my Mum's aunties and cousins, 0:07:42.365 --> 0:07:43.925 like all of them are in Gaza. 0:07:44.165 --> 0:07:47.325 Prior to October seven, What did you know about what 0:07:47.365 --> 0:07:49.285 their quality of life was, Like, I. 0:07:49.205 --> 0:07:51.565 Mean a lot, because we support them, you know, we 0:07:51.645 --> 0:07:54.205 used to support them. I would speak to them, you know, 0:07:54.845 --> 0:07:57.245 and then it's like every year, you know, like we 0:07:57.245 --> 0:07:59.485 we used to try and like you know, and things 0:07:59.485 --> 0:08:03.085 like Ramadan or ed we would try and bring food 0:08:03.125 --> 0:08:05.485 for the whole area, you know, through my uncle. We 0:08:05.525 --> 0:08:08.565 would try and get everyone fed. And when I was 0:08:08.605 --> 0:08:11.805 there in June last year, we were seeing kids like 0:08:11.845 --> 0:08:14.525 what we're seeing now emanciated skin and bones dying from 0:08:14.525 --> 0:08:18.725 starvation then in June, so you know, and look, this 0:08:18.805 --> 0:08:22.525 is not controversial thing to say. The Israelis said, I 0:08:22.525 --> 0:08:25.885 think it was the Defense Minister at the time of 0:08:25.885 --> 0:08:27.845 ag Golong. He says, we're going to put a total 0:08:27.885 --> 0:08:30.405 seage on Gaza. There'll be no food, water, in electricity 0:08:30.445 --> 0:08:32.965 going into Gaza. And he said that on October the ninth, 0:08:34.165 --> 0:08:36.805 two days into this and Netnya, who's saying there's no 0:08:36.845 --> 0:08:40.445 starvation going on in Gaza. This is this is how 0:08:40.485 --> 0:08:42.045 absurd it is, and this is how nut it is, 0:08:42.085 --> 0:08:46.645 and this is why, Like, you know, words of condemnation 0:08:46.965 --> 0:08:50.845 mean nothing. The tone and these governments have just shifted now. 0:08:51.485 --> 0:08:54.565 But we've watched the same images on our screens for 0:08:54.605 --> 0:08:55.485 almost two years. 0:08:57.005 --> 0:09:00.485 So yeah, and those images, a lot of those images 0:09:00.525 --> 0:09:02.925 have been shared by you, and I want to I 0:09:02.965 --> 0:09:06.565 want to get to that experience. You were in a 0:09:06.725 --> 0:09:10.685 very specific position when this war broke out because you 0:09:10.845 --> 0:09:14.725 had training as a doctor. What made you decide to 0:09:14.805 --> 0:09:18.485 go into medicine and what to specialize in? What was 0:09:18.525 --> 0:09:19.565 behind that decision? 0:09:20.805 --> 0:09:23.165 Well, you know growing up and watching my father, when 0:09:23.205 --> 0:09:26.485 you grow up as a refugee, right, you're not very 0:09:26.485 --> 0:09:29.925 well liked. You know, you're not treated very well. And 0:09:31.045 --> 0:09:34.165 the one specialty and the one area, one profession that 0:09:34.685 --> 0:09:37.685 you know would always treat as like humans would be doctors. 0:09:38.165 --> 0:09:40.165 You know, whether it was a doctor's giving ye vaccines 0:09:40.965 --> 0:09:41.685 or whatever, it. 0:09:41.645 --> 0:09:43.125 Was treated with respect. 0:09:43.445 --> 0:09:46.245 Yeah, and you know, I saw what medicine did for 0:09:46.365 --> 0:09:50.405 my father. You know, he went from being this kid 0:09:50.405 --> 0:09:54.125 with no shoes and wearing flower bags as his trousers 0:09:54.605 --> 0:09:57.605 to now, you know, flying around the world doing conferences 0:09:57.605 --> 0:09:59.845 and being one of the leading fertility specialists in the world. 0:10:00.445 --> 0:10:02.645 And that's what medicine did for him, and it's empowering 0:10:03.285 --> 0:10:06.805 and it allows me to help people without me being political, 0:10:07.205 --> 0:10:10.525 because medicine isn't political. Medical medicine is and discriminate that 0:10:10.605 --> 0:10:12.485 same virus that you have, or that same bug. It 0:10:12.565 --> 0:10:14.085 will do the exact same thing to you as it 0:10:14.085 --> 0:10:16.845 would do to somebody who's gay, somebody who's Jewish, someone 0:10:16.885 --> 0:10:20.645 who's Muslim, someone who's black, white, whatever. It's the same thing, 0:10:20.685 --> 0:10:22.805 and the treatment is the same. For the most part. 0:10:22.845 --> 0:10:26.925 We do have some physiological you know, that's what medicine is, 0:10:26.965 --> 0:10:29.845 and that's why I always wanted to do medicine, and 0:10:29.885 --> 0:10:31.245 you know that's why I chose it as a career 0:10:31.285 --> 0:10:31.725 path for me. 0:10:32.685 --> 0:10:36.165 I want to take you back to October seventh, twenty 0:10:36.205 --> 0:10:40.405 twenty three, because for a lot of people, perhaps shamefully, 0:10:40.925 --> 0:10:44.405 they didn't have the context of what had been happening 0:10:44.445 --> 0:10:47.445 between Israel and Palestine. Maybe they'd seen a few headlines, 0:10:47.485 --> 0:10:51.525 but to them, you see the greatest loss of Jewish life, 0:10:51.685 --> 0:10:57.525 the Holocaust horror. Remember the opera house, the Israeli flag 0:10:57.645 --> 0:11:00.245 was there. What was your response, as someone who had 0:11:00.325 --> 0:11:03.965 family who was in Ghaza, who had a very particular 0:11:04.085 --> 0:11:06.125 vantage point, what was your response on that day. 0:11:06.965 --> 0:11:08.765 I remember because I was on night shift that night 0:11:09.125 --> 0:11:10.925 when news came out. I remember opening up my phone 0:11:10.965 --> 0:11:12.765 and thinking, oh my god. Like, so you've seen some 0:11:12.805 --> 0:11:15.285 of these images that are coming out of Israel and 0:11:15.325 --> 0:11:18.325 you think, oh my god, what is happening. There's this 0:11:18.405 --> 0:11:21.165 like level of like you don't know how to feel 0:11:21.765 --> 0:11:27.245 as a Palestinian because in one hand, you feel pain 0:11:28.325 --> 0:11:30.125 for these people and what's happened to them, and then 0:11:30.165 --> 0:11:32.765 being taken ostagen and you can't you can't feel anything 0:11:32.765 --> 0:11:35.365 but feel sorry when you see people screaming as they're 0:11:35.365 --> 0:11:39.005 being carded away, right. And then on the other hand, 0:11:39.085 --> 0:11:43.165 I'm thinking to myself, these images are so powerful because 0:11:43.645 --> 0:11:45.725 everybody knows what was going to come next, and what 0:11:45.765 --> 0:11:47.885 was going to come next was a massive bombing campaign. 0:11:48.125 --> 0:11:49.925 Put it in a context in the first like you know, 0:11:49.965 --> 0:11:51.885 before the first seas fire in November. So the first 0:11:51.885 --> 0:11:54.765 I think about thirty days, twenty four days, these really 0:11:54.765 --> 0:11:59.365 skilled one thy nine hundred children, one nine hundred children 0:12:00.365 --> 0:12:04.805 in about twenty five days. This is just children. Forget 0:12:04.805 --> 0:12:07.565 the women and the men in Gaza. This is just children, 0:12:07.605 --> 0:12:10.525 one nine hundred kild And you know, look, I don't 0:12:10.565 --> 0:12:12.325 ever want it to be about a competition if you've 0:12:12.365 --> 0:12:15.805 killed more than hers, any of it. But what I 0:12:15.845 --> 0:12:17.525 want people to see is, is it if your heart 0:12:17.565 --> 0:12:19.965 breaks and bleeds for what happened on October the seventh, 0:12:20.005 --> 0:12:22.005 to people that how can your heart not break for 0:12:22.045 --> 0:12:25.165 what's happened to these children in Gaza? How can your 0:12:25.205 --> 0:12:28.765 heart not break for the largest cohort of children amputees 0:12:28.845 --> 0:12:29.725 in the world. 0:12:29.805 --> 0:12:32.285 And your heart has space to break for both? 0:12:32.525 --> 0:12:34.925 I think it does, It does, it does. And I'm 0:12:34.925 --> 0:12:38.925 a Palestinian gas and refugee, and my heart breaks for 0:12:39.445 --> 0:12:42.085 Jewish people who have suffered. Yeah, my heart's always broken 0:12:42.085 --> 0:12:44.845 for Jews people stuff, not just that have suffered, you 0:12:44.845 --> 0:12:48.085 know in Israel, say necessarily on October the seventh, but 0:12:48.125 --> 0:12:51.085 like you know, just reading history and reading the atrocities 0:12:51.125 --> 0:12:53.885 of what happened to Jewish people in Western Europe. But 0:12:53.925 --> 0:12:55.925 you know what happened to Jewish people in Western Europe. 0:12:55.925 --> 0:12:58.165 It wasn't the crime of Palestinians. But yet we are 0:12:58.165 --> 0:13:00.085 the ones that have to pay the price. We are 0:13:00.085 --> 0:13:02.045 the ones that had to leave our villages. 0:13:03.485 --> 0:13:08.245 And I think that that creating space for the grief 0:13:08.405 --> 0:13:11.805 of both of those, I think is really important. And 0:13:12.645 --> 0:13:16.965 your perspective. I think that the horrors of October seven 0:13:17.005 --> 0:13:19.045 and the grief of that and what that did to 0:13:19.045 --> 0:13:21.925 the Jewish community all over the world was you know, 0:13:22.125 --> 0:13:26.965 it's just just awful, unimaginable. But your perspective, I think 0:13:27.165 --> 0:13:30.245 was bracing for what was about to happen. 0:13:30.965 --> 0:13:31.285 Yeah. 0:13:31.485 --> 0:13:35.725 Yeah, and you decided that you were going to go 0:13:36.245 --> 0:13:42.045 to Gaza. How did you come to that decision? I mean, 0:13:42.085 --> 0:13:43.925 we were hearing so early on that Gaza was one 0:13:43.965 --> 0:13:47.325 of the most dangerous places on earth. How did you 0:13:47.325 --> 0:13:48.685 come to that decision that you would go? 0:13:49.845 --> 0:13:51.485 Do? You know, when you grow up as a refugee 0:13:51.525 --> 0:13:53.245 and you're never allowed to go to your home, you're 0:13:53.285 --> 0:13:55.765 never allowed to see your people, you're never allowed to 0:13:55.805 --> 0:13:59.485 see your land, and when you start seeing what was 0:13:59.565 --> 0:14:02.565 unfolding in Gaza, you know, part of me was like, 0:14:02.605 --> 0:14:03.605 I tell you that now or never? 0:14:04.285 --> 0:14:05.005 Were you scared? 0:14:09.565 --> 0:14:11.845 Was very scared, and my mum was scared because she 0:14:11.925 --> 0:14:15.325 knew what I was willing to do. You know, when 0:14:15.365 --> 0:14:16.725 I was there, I was getting in the back of 0:14:16.725 --> 0:14:20.165 ambulances transporting patients from hospital hospitals. You're not allowed to 0:14:20.165 --> 0:14:21.565 do that because it has to be done under un 0:14:21.645 --> 0:14:24.165 coordination and I was just getting in the back of 0:14:24.165 --> 0:14:27.005 ambulance and transporting you know, children were missing limbs and 0:14:27.085 --> 0:14:30.285 children on ventilators but we didn't have ventilators, but bagging 0:14:30.285 --> 0:14:32.205 and masking children, trying to take them from one place 0:14:32.245 --> 0:14:35.565 to another. Cause I knew what I was willing to sacrifice, 0:14:36.005 --> 0:14:38.005 you know, when I went over there to try and help. 0:14:38.565 --> 0:14:41.405 And you know, I was in a lot of danger 0:14:41.645 --> 0:14:46.365 a lot when I was there. But I've been scared 0:14:47.205 --> 0:14:51.925 my whole life, my identity, and you know, I've been bullied, 0:14:51.965 --> 0:14:57.525 I've been being at schools. I've you can't let fear 0:14:58.245 --> 0:14:59.845 be the thing that drives you in life. And that's 0:14:59.885 --> 0:15:02.045 one thing that I just learned, like going into Guds, like, yes, 0:15:02.085 --> 0:15:05.405 I'm scared, but you know, I've been scared my whole life, 0:15:05.405 --> 0:15:07.565 and I still had to live my life despite being 0:15:07.645 --> 0:15:09.925 you know. And that's just the thing, like even on 0:15:09.965 --> 0:15:12.245 the campaign trail of this of like going around and 0:15:12.285 --> 0:15:16.645 trying to humanize Palestinian people. I mean, the threat that 0:15:16.725 --> 0:15:20.485 I get, the vitriol in which I've dealt with, the 0:15:20.565 --> 0:15:23.045 racism that I get online and all that kind of stuff, 0:15:23.085 --> 0:15:25.885 and I'm just like it is, it's scary. You know, 0:15:25.925 --> 0:15:28.165 all of it is scary, like to see this kind 0:15:28.205 --> 0:15:32.285 of level of violence like thrown at you. But I 0:15:32.405 --> 0:15:34.725 just say to myself, like, it's just one foot in 0:15:34.725 --> 0:15:36.445 front of the other. You just have to keep going 0:15:36.445 --> 0:15:38.645 one foot in front of the other and until you 0:15:38.685 --> 0:15:42.765 eventually get something done and you know, I've made peace 0:15:42.805 --> 0:15:44.285 with whatever fate comes my way. 0:15:45.605 --> 0:15:51.405 You're an emergency doctor. You walked in to the hospital 0:15:51.565 --> 0:15:55.325 in Gaza. Yeah, can you paint a picture of what 0:15:55.405 --> 0:15:57.925 the resources are like, what the supplies are like, what 0:15:57.965 --> 0:16:01.405 the infrastructure is like, as you know, someone who's had 0:16:01.405 --> 0:16:05.885 your training in Australia, so you know the comparison. What 0:16:05.965 --> 0:16:07.085 was it like walking in there? 0:16:07.885 --> 0:16:11.045 Do you know like there was we basically had no painkillers, 0:16:11.565 --> 0:16:14.405 right so you did? Yeah? Yeah, I mean you know, 0:16:14.445 --> 0:16:17.245 there's like a very very small amount of morphine, but 0:16:17.325 --> 0:16:20.285 like I'd never use I didn't use morphine the whole 0:16:20.285 --> 0:16:21.685 time that I was there. That's just how little there 0:16:21.845 --> 0:16:24.365 was of it there. And we didn't have a single 0:16:24.445 --> 0:16:27.005 ventilator in the emergency department that I was in, not 0:16:27.045 --> 0:16:31.525 one ventilator and the ringoscope that we used to intubate people. 0:16:31.565 --> 0:16:33.205 That when you you know, when you have a look 0:16:33.205 --> 0:16:36.965 down people's throats. There was one of them, and in 0:16:37.005 --> 0:16:40.605 a mass casualty event, that l ringoscope was just covered 0:16:40.605 --> 0:16:42.965 in blood because we were trying to tube so many people. 0:16:44.325 --> 0:16:46.005 And you know, all you do is you just you 0:16:46.005 --> 0:16:47.765 pick up this thing. It's covered in blood by like 0:16:47.845 --> 0:16:49.965 you know, this person's blooding this retubed and you just 0:16:50.005 --> 0:16:52.725 have to like you know, grab mask, rubs, wipe it 0:16:52.805 --> 0:16:56.565 down and then just onto the next one and it 0:16:58.525 --> 0:17:01.245 and then you know, we we were talking about no 0:17:01.365 --> 0:17:04.365 beds there. There's like seven beds in the department and 0:17:04.445 --> 0:17:07.285 like five of them don't have wheels that fully function 0:17:07.405 --> 0:17:09.925 and work. So you know, during these masks events, I 0:17:09.965 --> 0:17:12.405 was like carrying people and taking them to the CT scanner. 0:17:13.165 --> 0:17:15.125 People were dying as they were waiting because there was 0:17:15.125 --> 0:17:17.325 only one CT scanner in the whole north of Gars. 0:17:17.365 --> 0:17:18.765 And you know, when you have a mass casualty event 0:17:18.765 --> 0:17:21.365 and you have like you know, one hundred dead, three 0:17:21.485 --> 0:17:23.925 hundred injured or whatever, and you have one CT scanner 0:17:23.925 --> 0:17:27.325 to scan them, all, people die waiting for CT scanners. 0:17:27.405 --> 0:17:32.605 And there when we're dealing with burns, you know, after 0:17:32.645 --> 0:17:36.125 these burn injuries from these these blasts, you know, we 0:17:36.525 --> 0:17:39.125 just have nothing but normal bandages. So when you dress 0:17:39.245 --> 0:17:41.685 these wounds with these inappropriate dressings and then you have 0:17:41.725 --> 0:17:44.325 to change them two days later to stop them getting 0:17:44.325 --> 0:17:47.845 infected because they're not the appropriate dressings. As you're pulling 0:17:47.845 --> 0:17:51.165 the dressings off, you're pulling whatever formed of tissue or 0:17:51.285 --> 0:17:54.525 skin is formed, and you're doing this without any painkillers. 0:17:54.525 --> 0:17:56.885 And these are children and you're literally pulling their skin 0:17:56.925 --> 0:17:59.125 off every two days, and. 0:17:59.085 --> 0:18:01.685 Their screams and no pain relief. 0:18:01.405 --> 0:18:04.805 No pain relief, nothing. And then you know, you know, 0:18:05.125 --> 0:18:08.885 because with the hospitals are so overcrowded, people are staying 0:18:08.885 --> 0:18:12.285 intent around the hospital and these are sick patients and 0:18:12.285 --> 0:18:14.565 you're going into these tents and you're seeing that muggots 0:18:14.925 --> 0:18:18.085 have begun to grow out of their wounds. We just 0:18:18.085 --> 0:18:20.765 don't have enough time to take them all to theater. 0:18:21.485 --> 0:18:23.205 And you know, if you've got one hundred people that 0:18:23.325 --> 0:18:26.205 need surgery today, tomorrow, there's another hundred and another hundred 0:18:26.245 --> 0:18:27.005 and another hundred. 0:18:27.605 --> 0:18:28.925 A lot of people will have had a lot of 0:18:29.005 --> 0:18:34.885 arguments with either family or friends over the last few years, 0:18:35.445 --> 0:18:39.285 and one of the arguments that comes up, you know, 0:18:39.365 --> 0:18:41.285 and there are more than two narratives. There are a 0:18:41.285 --> 0:18:44.365 lot of competing narratives would be I have heard this, 0:18:44.485 --> 0:18:49.045 I've seen it published. Her mass is hiding under the hospitals. 0:18:49.165 --> 0:18:53.245 So maybe that is why there's a disproportionate amount of 0:18:53.285 --> 0:18:56.365 health workers who are hurt because her mass wants their 0:18:56.405 --> 0:18:59.525 own people to die. They talk about human shields. We've 0:18:59.525 --> 0:19:03.165 heard these stories, you've been on the ground, I haven't. 0:19:04.045 --> 0:19:04.965 What did you see? 0:19:05.485 --> 0:19:08.645 Well, look, i mean just the framing of that. You know, 0:19:08.725 --> 0:19:11.285 I want our own people to die, and you know 0:19:11.325 --> 0:19:14.205 that we as Palestinians were just okay with death. And 0:19:14.525 --> 0:19:19.205 you know, oh, well, because you know, there was a 0:19:19.445 --> 0:19:23.005 Israeli prime minister, she was the first ever female prime 0:19:23.005 --> 0:19:25.485 minister as well, and she said there will be peace 0:19:25.525 --> 0:19:27.365 when they love their children more than they hate us. 0:19:27.605 --> 0:19:32.165 So this idea right of human shields, and the Palestinians 0:19:32.205 --> 0:19:34.005 are just willing to sacrifice their children. 0:19:34.845 --> 0:19:35.725 That's not what you saw. 0:19:36.445 --> 0:19:38.005 It's not just what It's just that this is the 0:19:38.045 --> 0:19:41.605 dehumanizing language. It's been used for decades to justify killing children. 0:19:43.085 --> 0:19:46.525 I mean, look, I'm a Palestinian, right, I'm a human being. 0:19:47.005 --> 0:19:49.565 I don't want my children to die. I don't want 0:19:49.645 --> 0:19:52.005 kids to die. I value them I love them. I 0:19:52.045 --> 0:19:55.285 treasure them. To say that I hate somebody more than 0:19:55.325 --> 0:19:58.525 I love my own children, right, think about what that 0:19:58.565 --> 0:20:01.165 does in the psyche of people when that is what's 0:20:01.205 --> 0:20:06.365 been perpetuated for decades, that these uncivilized Arabs, you know, 0:20:07.045 --> 0:20:09.685 for them, you know, they're just savages. Death means nothing 0:20:09.685 --> 0:20:11.725 to them. You know, they hate us so much. Look 0:20:11.765 --> 0:20:14.365 at them, and I'm sat there and I'm like, I'm actually, 0:20:14.765 --> 0:20:17.485 life means a lot. We want to live, We want 0:20:17.485 --> 0:20:19.805 to be free, that's all we want. We just want 0:20:19.885 --> 0:20:22.285 our freedom. We just want to be able to have 0:20:22.365 --> 0:20:25.165 the right to self determination. And that's why indigenous people 0:20:25.165 --> 0:20:28.485 here feel so much for what's going on to Palestinian 0:20:28.485 --> 0:20:30.965 people because they see their own history and what's happened 0:20:30.965 --> 0:20:34.685 to Palatin, the dehumanization. So you know, when we look 0:20:34.685 --> 0:20:36.925 at like what happened on October the seventh, it's horrific 0:20:37.205 --> 0:20:40.645 what happened. And I'm saying that as a Palestinian. You know, 0:20:40.925 --> 0:20:43.365 the killing of women and children, the taking of vostages 0:20:43.405 --> 0:20:46.525 of women and children is horrific. But it's just like 0:20:47.365 --> 0:20:50.645 everybody says, there's no justification for October the seventh, but 0:20:51.165 --> 0:20:54.485 everything is justified because of October the seventh, and again 0:20:54.525 --> 0:20:56.565 people still use to say, well, you know, if they 0:20:56.565 --> 0:20:58.485 release the hostages, it would stop. It won't stop. If 0:20:58.525 --> 0:21:00.045 they release the hostages. 0:20:59.645 --> 0:21:01.205 Well said, it won't stop. 0:21:01.245 --> 0:21:03.245 It won't stop. He said, it won't stop. But we've 0:21:03.365 --> 0:21:05.725 been saying that from day one, and who's broken the 0:21:05.765 --> 0:21:09.245 ceasefire agreements multiple times. I think people now will begin 0:21:09.565 --> 0:21:11.205 to see what you're dealing with. 0:21:11.605 --> 0:21:15.205 So what did you see then in twenty twenty four 0:21:15.365 --> 0:21:20.365 you arrive? What sort of injuries are you are you seeing? 0:21:20.365 --> 0:21:22.605 What sort of patients are you trading? What does that 0:21:22.685 --> 0:21:23.125 look like? 0:21:24.205 --> 0:21:27.285 Well, so when I when I was there in June, 0:21:27.325 --> 0:21:28.805 I was there for one of the worst mass casualty 0:21:28.845 --> 0:21:30.485 offens of the war. I was there when they rescued 0:21:30.525 --> 0:21:33.845 the four Israeli hostages. We had people coming in with 0:21:33.925 --> 0:21:38.325 missing limbs, missing heads, eighty percent body burns, ninety percent 0:21:38.325 --> 0:21:42.245 body burns. We were seeing children who had been shot 0:21:42.285 --> 0:21:45.485 in the head and neck. We were seeing people that 0:21:45.525 --> 0:21:47.365 had been pulled out from under the rubble and they'd 0:21:47.405 --> 0:21:49.445 been under there for three four days and they were 0:21:49.485 --> 0:21:54.445 coming in completely emanciated. Just doa'nt figures, zombie like figures. 0:21:55.485 --> 0:21:58.645 We were you know. I remember there was this one 0:21:58.685 --> 0:22:01.645 guy who'd come in from you know, from a blast injury, 0:22:01.645 --> 0:22:03.565 and he had half of his you know, his jaw 0:22:03.725 --> 0:22:06.845 was completely missing and his face was like half open, 0:22:07.725 --> 0:22:11.965 and again, no painkillers. We're in this emergency er department 0:22:12.005 --> 0:22:16.765 and it's just overcrowded and full, and this guy's right 0:22:16.765 --> 0:22:19.805 there in the middle with half his face missing, and 0:22:21.245 --> 0:22:22.645 you know, what do you say to someone like that 0:22:22.685 --> 0:22:25.605 and you've got no pain killers? And I remember going 0:22:25.685 --> 0:22:30.725 up to him and I did a dental block on him, 0:22:31.125 --> 0:22:32.805 believe it or not, because there was a part of 0:22:32.805 --> 0:22:34.885 his jaw that was there. So did this thing called 0:22:34.885 --> 0:22:37.645 an inferior alveola nerve block, and I did a superior 0:22:37.725 --> 0:22:41.485 alveola nerve block. But I was like, literally I pulled up, 0:22:41.565 --> 0:22:46.445 like literally a piece of meat that was dangling off. 0:22:46.445 --> 0:22:47.605 The skin had come off, and it was like a 0:22:47.605 --> 0:22:49.925 piece of his cheek muscle, and I'd pulled it up 0:22:50.325 --> 0:22:52.685 and I got my needle and I just tried to 0:22:52.685 --> 0:22:55.285 position it because you don't have any anatomical landmarks. His 0:22:55.325 --> 0:22:59.245 face is all mangled. And I injected him with a 0:22:59.285 --> 0:23:03.365 local anesthetic and I just paused for like, you know, 0:23:03.485 --> 0:23:05.165 thirty seconds and then he looked at me and he 0:23:05.205 --> 0:23:08.885 went he slimm me, theacred doctor just means like bless 0:23:08.925 --> 0:23:11.045 your hands. And I said, are you? I said, how 0:23:11.045 --> 0:23:14.085 does it feel? It's gone numb? I was like going, 0:23:14.485 --> 0:23:16.445 thank God, because I don't know if I could have 0:23:17.085 --> 0:23:18.845 coped gone back to my room, knowing as a guy 0:23:18.845 --> 0:23:21.125 with half his face missing and like just in agony. 0:23:22.365 --> 0:23:23.485 But that's what we were dealing with. 0:23:24.405 --> 0:23:29.725 There's those, you know, attacks and the catastrophic injuries. There 0:23:29.725 --> 0:23:32.925 are the people who who don't even have the catastrophic 0:23:32.965 --> 0:23:36.485 injuries and are living alongside it. How would you describe 0:23:36.805 --> 0:23:39.165 the trauma that you witnessed, the trauma that you witnessed 0:23:39.165 --> 0:23:43.885 from fellow doctors, from communities, from children who have lost parents, 0:23:43.925 --> 0:23:46.245 from parents who have lost children, Like, how do you 0:23:46.325 --> 0:23:50.325 even begin trying to describe the horror that he's living 0:23:50.325 --> 0:23:51.445 in Gaza right now? 0:23:51.805 --> 0:23:55.845 I remember there was one mass casualty event and there 0:23:55.885 --> 0:23:58.405 was this like nine year old girl who'd come in 0:23:58.525 --> 0:24:02.045 and she was injured, and she was barefoot, and she 0:24:02.125 --> 0:24:04.725 was carrying her three year old brother who was also injured, 0:24:04.765 --> 0:24:07.125 and she'd walked kilometers with a three year old brother. 0:24:07.565 --> 0:24:10.605 Whole family had been killed. She's sat there walking with 0:24:10.645 --> 0:24:12.565 her three year old brother in the middle of the night, 0:24:13.045 --> 0:24:16.165 bombs going off everywhere, drones shooting people as they're coming 0:24:16.205 --> 0:24:22.245 to the hospital. And I remember just thinking to myself, like, 0:24:24.685 --> 0:24:27.485 this girl has had to watch her entire family be killed. 0:24:27.605 --> 0:24:30.765 She's had to pluck up the courage to pick up 0:24:30.765 --> 0:24:35.285 her injured brother who's crying and is almost lifeless. And 0:24:35.365 --> 0:24:38.925 she's walked in the middle of the night, in the 0:24:39.045 --> 0:24:45.325 dark because there's no electricity, while she's seeing these explosions. 0:24:45.365 --> 0:24:47.445 And you've seen the images of what these explosions are like, 0:24:47.525 --> 0:24:50.005 and just the shaking that it does. And she's walking 0:24:50.045 --> 0:24:52.525 in amongst these explosions to get to the hospital to 0:24:52.565 --> 0:25:03.005 save her brother's life. Do you know I just felt 0:25:03.005 --> 0:25:05.285 I just said to herself, like I wonder how alone 0:25:05.325 --> 0:25:09.165 she feels in this world. And I remember thinking to myself, 0:25:09.245 --> 0:25:12.125 like how alone I feel here? Just you know, we 0:25:12.205 --> 0:25:16.885 are these people are coming in. We have no equipment, 0:25:17.325 --> 0:25:20.645 we have little to no staff to deal with the 0:25:20.685 --> 0:25:25.005 amount that are coming in dead and injured. And this 0:25:25.045 --> 0:25:27.565 little girl is just carrying a little brother, wanting somebody 0:25:27.605 --> 0:25:29.965 to help her. She probably hasn't eaten, She probably hasn't drank. 0:25:30.525 --> 0:25:32.325 I don't know even know if we can save her brother. 0:25:33.845 --> 0:25:38.405 And she is scared, and I'm scared. I'm scared, and 0:25:38.445 --> 0:25:41.285 I'm the grown man and I'm scared, and I'm just 0:25:41.325 --> 0:25:44.845 like I have to be brave, but I'm just you know, 0:25:45.045 --> 0:25:47.045 I'm just sat there. I'm just like, somebody needs to 0:25:47.085 --> 0:25:49.845 help us. We can't have this is a slaughter It 0:25:49.965 --> 0:25:53.565 is a slaughter house here, these children and men are 0:25:53.605 --> 0:25:58.125 being slaughtered, and you know, I'm just sat there. I'm 0:25:58.165 --> 0:25:59.725 just like going, is this the best that we have 0:25:59.925 --> 0:26:03.925 is me? Why can't there be somebody better than me 0:26:04.005 --> 0:26:05.965 here that can be here, can save them? Why can't 0:26:06.005 --> 0:26:11.405 someone stop this carnage? But do you know I just 0:26:11.445 --> 0:26:13.125 had to keep going And. 0:26:14.805 --> 0:26:20.965 Sorry, I'm so sorry. 0:26:22.005 --> 0:26:23.725 You know, sometimes I think I'm better. I think I 0:26:23.725 --> 0:26:26.005 can I think I can talk about it and not 0:26:26.005 --> 0:26:27.965 not break down. But you know, it's just hard. 0:26:29.765 --> 0:26:33.885 With what you're describing, I'm going to inject some absolute 0:26:33.965 --> 0:26:36.165 naivety into it, which is I'm sitting here in my 0:26:36.245 --> 0:26:43.205 comfortable Sydney studio wondering why can't we have resources, Why 0:26:43.245 --> 0:26:47.085 can't we have enough baby formula for the babies, Why 0:26:47.125 --> 0:26:51.405 can't We like, why can we not just load your 0:26:51.405 --> 0:26:57.325 suitcase right when you entered those hospitals? What could you bring? 0:26:57.565 --> 0:26:59.965 Can can you bring aid? Can you bring supplies? Can 0:27:00.005 --> 0:27:00.925 you bring the paintings? 0:27:01.245 --> 0:27:04.005 You can't? You know, we've had doctors just recently who 0:27:04.405 --> 0:27:07.045 were stopped and because they've tried to bring in baby 0:27:07.085 --> 0:27:09.285 formula and the baby formula was taken out of their bags. 0:27:09.365 --> 0:27:11.525 Was there a reason? Was there an explanation? 0:27:11.765 --> 0:27:14.205 The reason is they don't see these people as human beings, 0:27:14.245 --> 0:27:17.525 even children. We keep trying to rationalize what they're doing. 0:27:17.525 --> 0:27:19.285 Why would they say no to baby for There's no 0:27:19.325 --> 0:27:21.765 reason why you would say no to baby formula, no 0:27:21.845 --> 0:27:28.925 reason whatsoever. I never grub, you know. It's it's different 0:27:28.965 --> 0:27:31.565 for me compared to other people because I'm a fluent 0:27:31.565 --> 0:27:34.445 Arabic speaker, you know, so, and I work in the 0:27:34.445 --> 0:27:38.365 emergency department, so I'm right there when the disasters happen. 0:27:38.965 --> 0:27:41.605 I'm right there when the carnage ensues, and people talk 0:27:41.685 --> 0:27:47.685 to me, and you know, I'm going out, like you know, 0:27:47.725 --> 0:27:50.765 in the marketplaces and I'm doing food shops for the 0:27:50.605 --> 0:27:52.605 for the for the staff and getting some food for 0:27:52.645 --> 0:27:54.845 them and things like that. So like I lived the 0:27:54.885 --> 0:27:56.645 life in and amongst these people, you know what I mean. 0:27:56.645 --> 0:27:58.885 I would stay at my uncle's house, you know, not 0:27:58.965 --> 0:28:01.725 in the safe house, not in the hospital, my uncle's house, 0:28:02.205 --> 0:28:09.325 you know. And man, I mean it was it's really scary, 0:28:09.925 --> 0:28:11.165 you know. I remember one night I was staying at 0:28:11.205 --> 0:28:13.165 my uncle's house and there was an Apache helicopter that 0:28:13.245 --> 0:28:15.245 had flow around the neighborhood and it was just shooting 0:28:15.645 --> 0:28:17.725 at rooftops and it was shooting at our uncle's house. 0:28:17.725 --> 0:28:19.805 And we were just sat there as a family in 0:28:19.845 --> 0:28:22.205 one room because we were like, if there's going to 0:28:22.205 --> 0:28:23.605 be a bomb drop or anything like that, then we'll 0:28:23.645 --> 0:28:25.565 all go together. And we just said that. I just 0:28:25.565 --> 0:28:28.045 remember it myself, this is fucking nuts. 0:28:28.645 --> 0:28:30.525 And that's just the reality every day life. 0:28:30.565 --> 0:28:32.365 That's just the reality of everyday life. 0:28:33.045 --> 0:28:35.005 When you were there in twenty twenty four, because I 0:28:35.045 --> 0:28:38.885 know that recently the images of starvation have circulated around 0:28:38.925 --> 0:28:42.405 the world and has perhaps contributed to some sort of 0:28:42.445 --> 0:28:46.405 international tipping point. You're there in twenty twenty four. Was 0:28:46.445 --> 0:28:47.525 there evidence of starvation? 0:28:47.605 --> 0:28:49.805 Then? Yeah, there was. You know, we had plenty of 0:28:49.885 --> 0:28:51.805 kids that were coming in that was being starved to death. 0:28:52.485 --> 0:28:54.405 Children that were coming in Cacasia, I think you've got 0:28:54.445 --> 0:28:58.965 to remember. And and then we bought with us shampoo 0:28:59.005 --> 0:29:01.645 and body wash, right, yet that was gold dust. There 0:29:01.645 --> 0:29:04.725 was none of that in Gaza because remember that there 0:29:04.805 --> 0:29:07.365 was only like fifty eight trucks a day going into Gaza. 0:29:07.405 --> 0:29:09.845 Back then, there was no aid that got into Gaza. 0:29:09.885 --> 0:29:12.685 For like four weeks, no trucks had got in. So 0:29:12.725 --> 0:29:15.605 you're drip feeding like fifty eight trucks in a day 0:29:16.165 --> 0:29:18.365 and then you cut it off for six weeks. There's 0:29:18.405 --> 0:29:21.285 no toothpaste, there was no body wash. That's why skin 0:29:21.325 --> 0:29:26.085 infections were so rampant. So our shower gel was like 0:29:26.165 --> 0:29:28.245 gold dust. You know. When we were like we would 0:29:28.245 --> 0:29:30.925 have like little bottles of like water and we'd fill 0:29:30.925 --> 0:29:33.085 in a little bit with some shower gel and then 0:29:33.125 --> 0:29:34.645 fill it up with water and we would hand that 0:29:34.725 --> 0:29:36.685 out to people you know, living in terms so that 0:29:36.685 --> 0:29:39.165 they could use that to shower and wash. So you know, 0:29:39.605 --> 0:29:41.965 like there wasn't like this was how desperate the situation 0:29:42.245 --> 0:29:42.805 was then. 0:29:43.685 --> 0:29:46.805 Because you went back in twenty twenty five the second time, 0:29:48.125 --> 0:29:52.405 what was the first you know, hours days like when 0:29:52.405 --> 0:29:54.325 you went back the second time, because was that when 0:29:54.365 --> 0:29:56.245 the seats fire broke the second time. 0:29:56.365 --> 0:30:00.045 Yeah, so I was like I arrived during the seasfire. Yep, yeah, 0:30:00.085 --> 0:30:02.205 I remember. We'd finish work at like eleven o'clock at 0:30:02.285 --> 0:30:05.325 night or something like that. We would go out to 0:30:05.405 --> 0:30:08.765 the streets in Gaza and just like explore and there 0:30:08.805 --> 0:30:11.085 was loads of like people who had you know, because 0:30:11.085 --> 0:30:13.925 it was Ramadan, so people would make food out on 0:30:13.965 --> 0:30:15.405 the stalls and stuff like that, and we would go 0:30:15.445 --> 0:30:16.525 around and explore there. 0:30:16.765 --> 0:30:19.805 So were you fasting? Yeah, so people are fasting in 0:30:19.845 --> 0:30:22.365 the midst of these yeah wow. 0:30:22.685 --> 0:30:29.645 Yeah we used to. Yeah, so you know, we'd fast and. 0:30:27.405 --> 0:30:29.965 And then you would congregate at night because it's it's 0:30:29.965 --> 0:30:31.845 a celebration, right that it's a. 0:30:32.005 --> 0:30:35.205 Villigious Yeah, well, now you'd congregate to eat together. But 0:30:35.245 --> 0:30:37.245 the problem was was that the Israeli is used to 0:30:37.285 --> 0:30:40.485 bomb when it was the call to evening prayer for 0:30:40.525 --> 0:30:42.045 people to you know, when people would pray and then 0:30:42.045 --> 0:30:44.885 come together and eat, that's when they would bomb. So 0:30:44.925 --> 0:30:46.925 it would be ten minutes after the call to prayer 0:30:46.925 --> 0:30:49.245 when people would be gathering together as families to eat, 0:30:49.765 --> 0:30:51.965 and that's when the bombings would be at its most intense. 0:30:52.125 --> 0:30:54.085 Would be about ten minutes after the col to prayer. 0:30:54.925 --> 0:30:56.885 What happened when the seas fire broke? What was your 0:30:56.925 --> 0:30:57.645 experience of that? 0:30:58.685 --> 0:31:00.165 And that was a horrific night, you know, the night 0:31:00.205 --> 0:31:03.765 that is firebroke. I mean I'd finished work at like 0:31:03.805 --> 0:31:06.685 eleven o'clock. I've gone up to my room, you know, 0:31:07.605 --> 0:31:13.685 and finished texting my mom, family, friends, just letting them 0:31:13.725 --> 0:31:16.245 know I was all okay, And then one o'clock, one 0:31:16.285 --> 0:31:19.405 thirty in the morning, just the explosions that you would 0:31:19.405 --> 0:31:20.765 hear coming from outside. 0:31:22.365 --> 0:31:24.805 Were you terrified that it was going to hit the hospital? 0:31:25.165 --> 0:31:28.245 I mean, I mean we were terrified because we just 0:31:28.285 --> 0:31:30.045 didn't know. You know, you don't know like comms have 0:31:30.085 --> 0:31:31.925 been cut, you know, once the bombs start, they cut 0:31:31.925 --> 0:31:34.245 comes for like however many few hours, you know, and 0:31:34.925 --> 0:31:37.325 so coms have cut, we don't know what's going on, 0:31:38.125 --> 0:31:41.445 and all we're hearing is like just the room is shaking, 0:31:42.205 --> 0:31:45.085 literally dozens of bombs going off in the space of 0:31:45.125 --> 0:31:47.885 like five minutes. And you're looking around and you can 0:31:47.925 --> 0:31:49.965 see the explosions out from your window, like that's how 0:31:50.005 --> 0:31:53.165 close the bombings is, and you just have no idea 0:31:53.685 --> 0:31:55.245 what's going to happen next. So I remember you going 0:31:55.245 --> 0:31:57.125 in during the seas fire. Now the bombing has started, 0:31:57.645 --> 0:32:00.165 you know, I mean I knew going in the second 0:32:00.205 --> 0:32:02.725 time round. It just so it happened that I you know, 0:32:02.725 --> 0:32:04.605 I was always planning on going back, but it just 0:32:04.605 --> 0:32:06.725 so happened that I went back during say, this is fight, 0:32:06.805 --> 0:32:08.645 but I knew this is fire was not going to hold. 0:32:09.405 --> 0:32:11.365 What do you say in the aftermath of that in 0:32:11.405 --> 0:32:14.765 the hours you're an emergency doctor, it must be bracing yourself. 0:32:15.125 --> 0:32:19.085 We we had I remember just like these these families 0:32:19.125 --> 0:32:21.005 coming in, and these mothers coming in, and they would 0:32:21.005 --> 0:32:23.845 bring in plastic bags and it would just be their children, 0:32:24.685 --> 0:32:28.125 just organs that were left of their children and body 0:32:28.125 --> 0:32:30.725 pieces that they'd gathered and they'd bought in in plastic bags. 0:32:31.525 --> 0:32:33.365 They would have that a plastic bag of one of 0:32:33.405 --> 0:32:35.005 their children, and they would know they'd have their other 0:32:35.085 --> 0:32:38.445 child that they would carry that would be injured. Do 0:32:38.445 --> 0:32:40.285 you know you just sat there and you think to yourself, 0:32:40.445 --> 0:32:43.645 where like what is going on here? Like what. 0:32:46.285 --> 0:32:48.285 How do you even? How do you triage? How do 0:32:48.365 --> 0:32:50.965 you decide? When you were that overwhelmed, you have no supplies, 0:32:51.925 --> 0:32:55.165 barely any start. You went into this, I would imagine 0:32:55.165 --> 0:32:58.765 to save lives. That's why doctors go into it. Where 0:32:58.805 --> 0:33:01.605 do you begin with children that need you. 0:33:02.725 --> 0:33:04.885 It's difficult for me compared to other people because those 0:33:04.965 --> 0:33:07.925 children they look like me. You know, I'm a Garden, 0:33:08.605 --> 0:33:11.685 I'm a Garsen, and you know, when I'm there in Gaza, 0:33:12.485 --> 0:33:14.805 most people don't believe I'm an international doctor. They think 0:33:15.525 --> 0:33:19.605 I'm from Gaza. And when you see a child that 0:33:19.645 --> 0:33:22.925 looks like you or looks like your sister, who really 0:33:23.005 --> 0:33:25.525 hits home. And then when you know there's no tree, 0:33:25.725 --> 0:33:29.325 it's just chaos, like there's just bodies everywhere and people screaming, 0:33:30.165 --> 0:33:35.245 and you get so overwhelmed right in that moment that 0:33:36.325 --> 0:33:37.925 I say to myself, if I start going around and 0:33:37.925 --> 0:33:39.445 looking at everyone, I'm not going to see everyone because 0:33:39.445 --> 0:33:41.885 there's just so there's like literally dozens of people, hundreds 0:33:41.885 --> 0:33:44.965 of people. So I just focus on what's right in 0:33:44.965 --> 0:33:46.405 front of me, like what can I see in front 0:33:46.405 --> 0:33:47.885 of me? And I remember there was this guy and 0:33:47.925 --> 0:33:50.085 he was literally at the entrance because it was so crowded. 0:33:50.405 --> 0:33:52.725 He was literally at the entrance to the emergency department. 0:33:53.565 --> 0:33:56.005 And you know, I just got down on the floor 0:33:56.405 --> 0:33:58.485 and I had my pocket ultrasound and I scanned his 0:33:58.565 --> 0:34:00.405 chest and he had, you know, blood in his lungs, 0:34:00.405 --> 0:34:01.845 and I knew we needed to get a chest train in, 0:34:01.925 --> 0:34:04.925 so I literally grabbed a scalpel and I stabbed him 0:34:04.965 --> 0:34:07.765 in the chest and put in a chest train in 0:34:07.845 --> 0:34:10.605 on the floor and he's like, you know, badly injured, 0:34:10.805 --> 0:34:14.565 bleeding everywhere, and I'm putting this chest strain in securing 0:34:14.605 --> 0:34:17.325 the tube. Once I've got that in with one of 0:34:17.365 --> 0:34:18.925 the nurses, and I've told him to stay with him, 0:34:18.925 --> 0:34:21.045 and I'm going to go see if there's anybody else 0:34:21.085 --> 0:34:23.245 that's in a critical condition because I've got the ultrasound 0:34:23.285 --> 0:34:25.765 to see if I can scan more people, see who's 0:34:25.805 --> 0:34:29.165 in critical condition, who's bleeding out. But I remember, like, 0:34:29.205 --> 0:34:30.525 you know, I had to go carry this guy to 0:34:30.565 --> 0:34:33.125 the CT scanner. And I got him to the CT 0:34:33.245 --> 0:34:36.205 scanner and we scanned him in the cets kander and 0:34:36.445 --> 0:34:38.565 we scanned his head initially, and then we were about 0:34:38.565 --> 0:34:42.045 to scan his body and he died. Died on the 0:34:42.085 --> 0:34:44.045 CTS kander, and we literally didn't even have the time. 0:34:44.085 --> 0:34:46.045 We just literally put him down off the CT scanner 0:34:46.365 --> 0:34:47.805 and then we got the next person on there. And 0:34:47.805 --> 0:34:50.725 the next person was this woman who had it intestines 0:34:50.765 --> 0:34:53.525 hanging out. That was the next person that we were scanning. 0:34:53.565 --> 0:34:56.965 And it's just it's just carnage, just total carnage. And 0:34:58.405 --> 0:35:00.805 you know, every day you're losing staff in Gaza because 0:35:00.805 --> 0:35:03.325 doctors and nurses are being killed every single day in Gaza. 0:35:03.405 --> 0:35:04.845 So you know, you don't know what's going to turn up, 0:35:04.885 --> 0:35:06.725 what kind of workforce is going to turn up? 0:35:06.725 --> 0:35:10.565 Then are they being killed in the bombings like you saidyeah, yea, yeah, yeah, they've. 0:35:10.405 --> 0:35:12.445 Been killed in the bombings as well. So you just 0:35:12.525 --> 0:35:14.285 you know, you go into this and you have no 0:35:14.405 --> 0:35:17.245 idea one who the staff that are going to turn 0:35:17.325 --> 0:35:20.445 up today, what kind of mass casualty event you're going 0:35:20.485 --> 0:35:22.005 to see, Like what kind of bombs they're going to 0:35:22.085 --> 0:35:25.005 use today? You know sometimes you know when they burn 0:35:25.045 --> 0:35:28.005 the journalists in their tents, there's a certain type of bomb. 0:35:28.325 --> 0:35:32.525 They sometimes use bombs that like cause shredding of people, 0:35:32.565 --> 0:35:34.725 like they spit out these blades. 0:35:35.205 --> 0:35:38.565 Had you worked in war zones before this? Like, had 0:35:38.605 --> 0:35:40.165 you what some hospitals had you worked at? 0:35:40.285 --> 0:35:42.125 You know, I'd work at refugee camps before and stuff, 0:35:42.125 --> 0:35:43.765 but never in a war zone. But you know, I'm 0:35:43.805 --> 0:35:46.165 like a young guy. I mean, you in my medical career, 0:35:46.205 --> 0:35:48.605 and it just so happened that this was the first 0:35:48.645 --> 0:35:51.645 big major conflict event where I was in my training. 0:35:51.685 --> 0:35:53.805 I was ready to deal with quite a lot. 0:35:54.005 --> 0:35:56.885 And how did it compare You've been to refugee camps, 0:35:56.885 --> 0:36:00.685 which is not like your hospital in Australia, Like I 0:36:00.685 --> 0:36:04.805 can imagine that you had some image maybe of what 0:36:04.885 --> 0:36:09.085 to expect. How did it compare to what you've done previously. 0:36:10.125 --> 0:36:12.965 Nothing can prepare you for Gaza. Nothing can prepare for God. 0:36:13.005 --> 0:36:14.605 And I think everybody has said that, Like, you know, 0:36:14.965 --> 0:36:17.525 major figures in the UN who have been to thirty 0:36:17.525 --> 0:36:20.565 different war zones have said Gaza is just different. I mean, 0:36:20.685 --> 0:36:22.765 you know, like I say, like you have no idea 0:36:22.765 --> 0:36:24.765 whether you're going to be alive, whether you're going to 0:36:24.765 --> 0:36:28.645 be bombed, the level of injuries that you're seeing, and 0:36:28.685 --> 0:36:32.045 the lack of medical equipment, the lack of food, the 0:36:32.085 --> 0:36:35.365 power outings and the cuts and electricity, I mean, it 0:36:35.445 --> 0:36:37.245 is a scary place to go and work. And it 0:36:37.285 --> 0:36:40.765 is just you know, the guilt when you leave Gaza. 0:36:40.765 --> 0:36:42.565 I didn't want to leave Gaza, you know, I really 0:36:42.605 --> 0:36:43.965 didn't want to leave. I wanted to stay and I 0:36:43.965 --> 0:36:49.205 wanted to continue working but you know, I was told 0:36:49.205 --> 0:36:51.445 that I needed to leave for my own safety because 0:36:51.445 --> 0:36:53.325 you know, I was going viral while I was there, 0:36:53.365 --> 0:36:56.645 and I was posting lots of videos and people were 0:36:56.685 --> 0:36:57.645 worried for my safety. 0:36:58.045 --> 0:37:02.205 And so you shared those videos, which were incredibly powerful. 0:37:02.285 --> 0:37:08.005 I mean, witnessing and broadcasting feels like when you're powerless, 0:37:08.005 --> 0:37:09.645 one of the only things you can do. 0:37:09.805 --> 0:37:10.005 Right. 0:37:11.165 --> 0:37:16.405 What was the response to that? Obviously within Australia globally 0:37:16.445 --> 0:37:20.085 people are watching it, But did you have second thoughts 0:37:20.125 --> 0:37:22.645 when you were in those hospitals about sharing it, knowing 0:37:22.725 --> 0:37:25.565 that that was putting you in danger? 0:37:26.565 --> 0:37:28.885 Well? I remember when I was filming this mass casualty 0:37:28.885 --> 0:37:31.165 event and we had this like doctor who'd come in 0:37:32.005 --> 0:37:36.405 and she was like an American doctor from a major NGO. 0:37:37.485 --> 0:37:39.405 She said to me, you're not allowed to film. Switch 0:37:39.445 --> 0:37:41.725 that off. You're not allowed to film. It's against the rules. 0:37:43.165 --> 0:37:45.405 And I remember just stood in a part of these 0:37:45.405 --> 0:37:47.765 bodies and I went and is this the rules? Is 0:37:47.805 --> 0:37:49.445 this the rules? Is this the rules that we're playing 0:37:49.485 --> 0:37:52.165 by here? I'm not allowed to film what's going on, 0:37:52.285 --> 0:37:54.845 but they can kill these children? Is this the rules? 0:37:54.925 --> 0:37:58.005 Is this the double standard? But this is why I 0:37:58.085 --> 0:38:00.365 was like, we need to do something about this. And 0:38:00.405 --> 0:38:02.005 this is why I was like, I need to do 0:38:02.085 --> 0:38:05.325 something about this because it's not working what we have now. 0:38:05.725 --> 0:38:09.445 We have NGOs that are so scared to talk in 0:38:09.485 --> 0:38:12.445 case they lose access to Gaza that they won't call 0:38:12.485 --> 0:38:15.405 it for what it is. I mean, just imagine, imagine, 0:38:15.445 --> 0:38:16.885 like you know, coming in there and saying no, we're 0:38:16.885 --> 0:38:19.045 not allowed to record what's going on. I'm like, what 0:38:19.045 --> 0:38:20.765 do you want? You want us to die quietly then 0:38:22.485 --> 0:38:24.885 so they can allow a few ventilators to come in 0:38:25.365 --> 0:38:28.885 and some small amount a couple of boxes of antibiotics. 0:38:29.125 --> 0:38:30.365 Is that why we're not going to film? 0:38:30.925 --> 0:38:35.285 When people look at this, you know so many people 0:38:35.285 --> 0:38:40.005 are horrified and completely overwhelmed in terms of what they 0:38:40.645 --> 0:38:46.805 can do. And you left your second stay in Gaza 0:38:47.005 --> 0:38:50.245 and you came up with a plan. Can you talk 0:38:50.325 --> 0:38:52.725 us through that plan and what you need in order 0:38:52.765 --> 0:38:53.485 to make that happen. 0:38:54.085 --> 0:38:55.925 I know that I can't stop the bombs. It's not 0:38:56.005 --> 0:38:57.925 me that's going to stop it. It's going to be 0:38:58.005 --> 0:39:00.965 these powerful government figures that come together and decide one 0:39:01.085 --> 0:39:03.165 enough is enough. And you know what we have to 0:39:03.165 --> 0:39:04.765 do as a population is we just have to keep 0:39:04.765 --> 0:39:07.445 applying pressure. So we're going to apply pressure for the 0:39:07.485 --> 0:39:09.525 bombs to stop. That's what needs to happen for as 0:39:09.525 --> 0:39:11.565 the bombs need to stop and there needs to be 0:39:12.365 --> 0:39:15.925 food and aid that goes into Gaza. But my aim 0:39:15.965 --> 0:39:18.965 as a doctor was to re establish the healthcare system 0:39:19.005 --> 0:39:20.605 in Gaza and it was to bring in a mobile 0:39:20.605 --> 0:39:23.005 hospital into Gaza. Now, the whole idea of bringing a 0:39:23.005 --> 0:39:27.885 mobile hospital into Gaza is this would be under the British, Australian, Canadian, 0:39:27.965 --> 0:39:33.685 New Zealand Irish flag. That would provide some form of 0:39:33.685 --> 0:39:38.125 protection for the hospital because now it's like a essentially 0:39:38.165 --> 0:39:42.485 like a diplomatic base that hospital now because it is 0:39:42.685 --> 0:39:45.365 under the governance of the British the Australians, which are 0:39:45.405 --> 0:39:49.685 allies with Israel, that hopefully that would provide it with safety. 0:39:49.685 --> 0:39:51.765 But it would also mean that we have an unrestricted 0:39:51.805 --> 0:39:56.325 access line to medicine and medical equipment and also that 0:39:56.365 --> 0:39:58.245 what that would mean is when we bring in the hospital, 0:39:58.285 --> 0:40:01.605 what comes in with the hospital is dozens of doctors 0:40:01.605 --> 0:40:04.925 and nurses, not the eight doctors that come in on 0:40:04.925 --> 0:40:06.925 a Tuesday and the eight doctors and nurses that come 0:40:06.965 --> 0:40:08.685 in on a Thursday. And as they get swapped in 0:40:08.685 --> 0:40:11.005 and out only you know, a handful of doctors that 0:40:11.045 --> 0:40:14.605 go into Gaza at a time. This is a self 0:40:14.605 --> 0:40:18.805 sufficient hospital. It's solar panel powered, it has operating theaters, 0:40:18.885 --> 0:40:23.325 it has a pathology lab, pharmacy, it even has transfusion 0:40:23.365 --> 0:40:26.005 centers in it as well. It has doctors quarters, it 0:40:26.005 --> 0:40:30.165 has a kitchen in it, and you know, I've traveled 0:40:30.165 --> 0:40:31.845 around the world to try and get these governments to 0:40:31.925 --> 0:40:36.485 sign on to bringing in a hospital and to take 0:40:36.565 --> 0:40:38.805 back some level, you know, because they say that they're 0:40:38.805 --> 0:40:42.325 disgusted at what they're seeing and it's unacceptable. We'll do something. 0:40:43.085 --> 0:40:45.925 Bring in a hospital and start treating these these people 0:40:46.365 --> 0:40:48.205 and trying to alleviate some of these images that we're 0:40:48.205 --> 0:40:51.085 seeing out of Gaza. We can't even evacuate children out 0:40:51.125 --> 0:40:54.405 of Gaza. There's literally thousands of children that need evacuating 0:40:54.405 --> 0:40:57.205 out of Gaza, that need medical aid treatment that are 0:40:57.205 --> 0:41:00.405 not being evacuated. And I know this because I'm actively 0:41:00.885 --> 0:41:04.245 behind the scenes trying to get these children evacuated, helping 0:41:04.325 --> 0:41:06.485 out with filling in their referral forms and going through 0:41:06.485 --> 0:41:09.085 different and finding hospitals that will take them. And it's 0:41:09.085 --> 0:41:11.685 a very hard process and you know, we'll try for 0:41:11.725 --> 0:41:13.085 weeks to try and get someone out and they might 0:41:13.125 --> 0:41:15.685 die while they're waiting. These kids. So, if we can't 0:41:15.685 --> 0:41:18.525 get these kids evacuated out of Gaza, if it's too 0:41:18.565 --> 0:41:22.605 much of a political nightmare to bring in brown kids 0:41:22.725 --> 0:41:24.805 here because you know people will complain if we bring 0:41:24.885 --> 0:41:27.285 kids here that or what about the kids? Our kids here? 0:41:27.525 --> 0:41:30.045 What about our hospitals are already And I totally get all 0:41:30.045 --> 0:41:33.885 of that right, But if you're not going to do anything, 0:41:34.125 --> 0:41:35.765 and you're not going to bring them over here, then 0:41:35.805 --> 0:41:37.325 at least we can do is bring a hospital over 0:41:37.365 --> 0:41:38.925 there and start treating children over there. 0:41:39.205 --> 0:41:44.405 So have you spoken to politicians? Where is that plan at? 0:41:45.205 --> 0:41:49.525 I have spoken a lot with politicians. I've traveled around 0:41:49.565 --> 0:41:49.925 the world. 0:41:51.285 --> 0:41:53.445 Have you spoken to Anthony Abenezi yet. 0:41:53.485 --> 0:41:55.965 I've not spoken to Anthony Abenzia. I've been reaching out 0:41:55.965 --> 0:41:58.285 to him over and over again to speak to him. 0:41:58.325 --> 0:42:00.685 I've spoken to anyone, but I've spoke to anyone, you know, 0:42:00.765 --> 0:42:03.565 when I first came out of Gaza and not since 0:42:03.605 --> 0:42:07.845 we've materialized this plan. I speak with aunt Ali, who's 0:42:07.885 --> 0:42:09.005 the full development minister. 0:42:09.525 --> 0:42:11.165 What would you need so you would need? 0:42:11.845 --> 0:42:15.205 I need courage, I need courage. I need courage. I 0:42:15.205 --> 0:42:17.405 need my Prime Minister. I need him to be a 0:42:17.525 --> 0:42:20.285 leader here. I need him to save those children's lives. 0:42:20.405 --> 0:42:23.005 That's what I need him to do. I need him 0:42:23.045 --> 0:42:26.245 to take leadership. I know the amount of flak that 0:42:26.325 --> 0:42:29.605 he gets and the put like you know, what I'd 0:42:29.605 --> 0:42:32.285 say to him is you're the Prime minister. It's your job. 0:42:32.565 --> 0:42:34.645 People are not going to like what you do. But 0:42:34.685 --> 0:42:35.925 at the end of the day, history is going to 0:42:36.005 --> 0:42:39.645 judge and what we did for these children. And I 0:42:39.685 --> 0:42:42.605 can't be the one that carries this. I'm just I'm 0:42:42.645 --> 0:42:45.005 just a junior doctor from birth. I'm just a just 0:42:45.045 --> 0:42:50.285 a kid, not a not a politician. And I've had 0:42:50.365 --> 0:42:55.365 threat on my life, my you know, my wife and Gaza. 0:42:55.605 --> 0:43:00.245 Her home was bombed two days ago. Luckily she wasn't 0:43:00.245 --> 0:43:00.525 in it. 0:43:03.525 --> 0:43:09.725 I'm in awe of that courage for in absolutely awe. Sorry, 0:43:10.645 --> 0:43:12.045 and I think that there will be a lot of 0:43:12.085 --> 0:43:16.125 people listening who want to help. I don't know how 0:43:16.125 --> 0:43:19.085 you argue with the children's hospital. I don't know how. 0:43:19.165 --> 0:43:20.165 I don't I don't. 0:43:20.245 --> 0:43:22.005 I just we just have to keep going. Look, I 0:43:22.325 --> 0:43:26.045 hate breaking down, but it's like so hard because I 0:43:26.125 --> 0:43:28.205 watch her every single day and I see the weight 0:43:28.285 --> 0:43:30.365 that she's losing, and I see that she's struggling. And 0:43:30.485 --> 0:43:37.845 our home was bombed and then my uncle's home. And 0:43:37.885 --> 0:43:39.605 I asked them, I say, look, I will stop if 0:43:39.605 --> 0:43:41.805 you want me to stop, and they just say you 0:43:41.965 --> 0:43:46.925 have to keep going because it's needed. People need you 0:43:47.045 --> 0:43:50.285 to be successful here. People's lives are relying on this. 0:43:53.165 --> 0:43:54.725 I don't want to be the one that carries this. 0:43:54.885 --> 0:43:58.125 I want I want it. I want I want Anthony 0:43:58.125 --> 0:44:01.125 Alberty easy to step in. I want him to help. 0:44:02.485 --> 0:44:05.005 And I'm pleading all the time. Just meet with me, 0:44:05.165 --> 0:44:07.445 talk with me. Let's get this done. Do you know 0:44:07.845 --> 0:44:10.245 I've I've got the Irish I'm on board. I've got 0:44:10.245 --> 0:44:13.445 the British government talking now with the Australian government behind 0:44:13.445 --> 0:44:17.965 the scenes. I've you know, got World Central Kitchen on board, 0:44:18.005 --> 0:44:19.725 and they've said that they would provide the food for 0:44:19.765 --> 0:44:21.885 this hospital and they would feed all the doctors and nurses. 0:44:21.925 --> 0:44:25.725 I mean, I'm just a kid. I'm like, I'm like, 0:44:26.165 --> 0:44:29.125 you know, I'm just a thirty five year old junior doctor. 0:44:29.165 --> 0:44:31.125 And if I'm able to do this, you could do 0:44:31.165 --> 0:44:34.965 this with one phone call. Anthony Albanezi And look, I 0:44:35.005 --> 0:44:37.045 know I'm simplifying it and saying with one phone call, 0:44:37.085 --> 0:44:40.285 but like you can be the guy that leads this, right, 0:44:41.685 --> 0:44:43.845 I'm trying to do this and I've got my family's 0:44:44.005 --> 0:44:48.565 and my wife's life on the line here, and it's hard. 0:44:48.965 --> 0:44:50.845 And it's hard every day getting up in the morning 0:44:51.005 --> 0:44:54.325 and just reading the abuse and the threats and knowing 0:44:54.325 --> 0:44:56.965 that your family's in danger and the amount of family 0:44:57.005 --> 0:44:59.205 members that I've had killed in the last few weeks 0:44:59.205 --> 0:45:03.485 in Kaza, and it's just it's relentless. But we just 0:45:03.565 --> 0:45:07.565 have to keep going because I just feel like if 0:45:07.565 --> 0:45:11.485 I stop, then what's going to happen? And you know, 0:45:11.565 --> 0:45:13.205 I wish there would be more people that would be 0:45:13.245 --> 0:45:14.805 brave enough to talk. And I know there's a lot 0:45:14.805 --> 0:45:17.525 of people that are talking about it, but I just like, 0:45:17.565 --> 0:45:19.365 I don't know what to do. You know, I've been 0:45:19.405 --> 0:45:22.925 thrown into this. I've not chosen this. I've not chosen 0:45:22.965 --> 0:45:26.045 to be out here talking to people and speaking about this. 0:45:26.765 --> 0:45:30.325 You know, I'm not media trained, I'm not a politician. 0:45:30.365 --> 0:45:33.805 I'm not a fundraiser. I've never built a hospital in 0:45:33.845 --> 0:45:36.845 my life. Somehow I've managed to put a blueprint together 0:45:36.845 --> 0:45:38.605 of how to build a hospital. I've got governments on 0:45:38.685 --> 0:45:40.525 board of how to do it. I've got an infrastructure 0:45:40.565 --> 0:45:42.125 in place, I've got an enng O that I'm willing 0:45:42.165 --> 0:45:44.805 to do it. I've had to do all of these 0:45:44.845 --> 0:45:47.805 things since coming out of Gaza, living out of a suitcase. 0:45:48.405 --> 0:45:52.765 But if I can do these things right, then then 0:45:52.925 --> 0:45:56.005 then our government can do a lot more. If I 0:45:56.005 --> 0:45:58.165 can get this done, then then I just need Anthony 0:45:58.165 --> 0:45:59.885 albin Easy to sit down with me, talk with me, 0:46:00.125 --> 0:46:02.205 and I need him to take on the bat And 0:46:02.285 --> 0:46:06.205 I know, I know this is politically it's a political minefield. Yeah, 0:46:06.365 --> 0:46:10.805 this right, But this is not politic. This is children's 0:46:10.805 --> 0:46:13.085 lives on the line. Here. There are moments in your 0:46:13.085 --> 0:46:15.005 life where you get tested on your character of who 0:46:15.085 --> 0:46:17.605 you are. Right, you can sit there when you have 0:46:17.645 --> 0:46:19.965 your victory speech after the elections and you can say 0:46:20.005 --> 0:46:22.885 that we are a compassionate nation and we are built 0:46:22.885 --> 0:46:26.085 on kindness. But it's not easy to do that. It's 0:46:26.125 --> 0:46:29.285 not easy. It takes risky, It comes with risks, It 0:46:29.325 --> 0:46:33.565 comes with risks. And I'm telling Anthony albanias I'm telling 0:46:33.605 --> 0:46:37.485 him that these risks that you perceive right here, the 0:46:37.605 --> 0:46:39.645 rewards are so much more, and there's so many more 0:46:39.645 --> 0:46:42.725 people around the world would be grateful for your leadership here, 0:46:43.485 --> 0:46:46.165 for your courage to stand up for these people. But 0:46:47.005 --> 0:46:49.965 it can't be left to ordinary people to stand up. 0:46:50.485 --> 0:46:53.525 If we can't agree on a children's hospital, then what 0:46:53.565 --> 0:46:55.605 are we doing. I think that that's a sense that 0:46:55.645 --> 0:46:58.125 I bet a lot of a lot of people have. 0:46:58.365 --> 0:47:06.725 And in one of the most despairing, you know, apocalyptic spaces. 0:47:08.565 --> 0:47:12.365 You met someone when you were in Gaza and you 0:47:12.445 --> 0:47:18.645 are now married. What is life like for her right now? 0:47:17.925 --> 0:47:22.245 What's that been like? That that distance and advocating for 0:47:22.285 --> 0:47:25.725 someone who you just must be so scared? 0:47:27.325 --> 0:47:29.085 Do you know? Like when I met her, I was 0:47:29.125 --> 0:47:31.965 working in the emergency department and she was there, and 0:47:32.165 --> 0:47:34.485 you know, look, it's been two years of this where 0:47:34.645 --> 0:47:37.125 you know, you have these children coming and they're dying 0:47:37.165 --> 0:47:42.045 on the floor and stuff, and a lot of doctors 0:47:42.085 --> 0:47:45.685 have compassion fatigue. You know, there's not the same adrenaline 0:47:45.725 --> 0:47:47.805 rush when you see an injured child now in Gaza 0:47:47.845 --> 0:47:49.085 because there's just so many. 0:47:49.005 --> 0:47:52.085 I can't imagine the trauma that they're living with. How 0:47:52.125 --> 0:47:53.725 you just get up and go to work. 0:47:53.605 --> 0:47:55.885 The next day and they do it every single day. 0:47:56.005 --> 0:47:58.325 I mean, credit to them, they get up every single 0:47:58.405 --> 0:48:02.565 day despite this trauma. Right. I remember just seeing her 0:48:02.685 --> 0:48:06.005 and like she didn't have that compassion fatigue that a 0:48:06.045 --> 0:48:08.725 lot of people have. She was there seeing every single patient, 0:48:09.045 --> 0:48:12.645 giving time to every single patient. Like I remember, just 0:48:13.885 --> 0:48:16.605 I remember just hitting myself out, like this woman's empathy 0:48:17.205 --> 0:48:23.765 and kindness and compassion really shine through. And I was just, 0:48:23.845 --> 0:48:25.805 you know, I was just so nervous to even approach 0:48:25.925 --> 0:48:27.525 to talk to her, because I was just like, she's 0:48:27.565 --> 0:48:30.925 like this angelic thing like walking around and I didn't 0:48:30.925 --> 0:48:36.565 know how to approach her. And I remember thinking to myself, right, tomorrow, tomorrow, 0:48:36.605 --> 0:48:38.285 I'm gonna, I'm gonna speak to it. I mean, you know, 0:48:38.445 --> 0:48:40.965 I'd spoken to her, but in a professional context of 0:48:41.085 --> 0:48:43.645 like dealing with patients. But I said, tomorrow, I'm gonna 0:48:43.685 --> 0:48:45.005 I want to speak to her and just like get 0:48:45.085 --> 0:48:47.685 to know her a little bit. And then at four 0:48:47.725 --> 0:48:49.165 o'clock in the morning, we got a call from the 0:48:49.205 --> 0:48:50.925 un saying that we had to be evacuated from the 0:48:50.965 --> 0:48:52.965 north and go to the South, and that the bus 0:48:53.005 --> 0:48:54.485 was going to be there at eight o'clock in the morning. 0:48:54.485 --> 0:48:56.845 So I had to leave at eight o'clock in the 0:48:56.845 --> 0:48:58.965 morning before I got to see her. And I remember 0:48:59.005 --> 0:49:02.125 thinking of myself here, you know, just there's there's no 0:49:02.165 --> 0:49:03.685 way that this is ever going to be, you know. 0:49:04.885 --> 0:49:08.285 And I remember because you know, at that stage, I 0:49:08.285 --> 0:49:10.565 hadn't seen my own cool because because they were in 0:49:10.565 --> 0:49:12.125 the south and I was placed in the north. So 0:49:12.245 --> 0:49:13.805 when I was there in the South, I went to 0:49:13.845 --> 0:49:15.845 go visit my uncle at his house and I was 0:49:15.965 --> 0:49:19.805 I was going to stay there, and you know, I 0:49:19.845 --> 0:49:21.285 said to my uncle said, oh, yeah, you know, there 0:49:21.325 --> 0:49:23.965 was this girl at the hospital. But you know it's 0:49:24.005 --> 0:49:26.485 not my it's not my destiny of but to be 0:49:26.565 --> 0:49:29.205 with her. And he went, no, he went new call 0:49:29.405 --> 0:49:31.125 up the head of the hospital and you ask him 0:49:31.285 --> 0:49:33.605 about her. And I was just like, no, no, no, 0:49:33.725 --> 0:49:35.965 that's just I was like, this is this is slack. 0:49:36.165 --> 0:49:38.765 I'm sure he's busy, the head of the hospital, like 0:49:38.885 --> 0:49:41.565 with an entire you know, there's a war going on here. 0:49:42.245 --> 0:49:45.085 And then I called up the head of the hospital. 0:49:45.085 --> 0:49:47.965 It was doctor name, and I said to me, you know, doctor, 0:49:47.965 --> 0:49:50.645 there was a girl that worked in the er, and 0:49:51.725 --> 0:49:54.165 you know, I just really liked her name was not 0:49:55.605 --> 0:49:58.045 And he said, oh, I know, her father. Her father 0:49:58.125 --> 0:50:00.765 is actually an orthopedic sursion he works with me. He goes, 0:50:01.125 --> 0:50:03.645 I'll speak to him. So he spoke to her father, 0:50:03.725 --> 0:50:05.325 and then a couple of hours later, her father called 0:50:05.365 --> 0:50:08.685 me and he was like, you know, I heard that 0:50:08.725 --> 0:50:12.245 you're interested in my daughter. I was thinking myself, what 0:50:12.365 --> 0:50:14.805 this is getting real serious. I was just I just 0:50:14.845 --> 0:50:19.245 wanted to talk to her, and you know, we sat there, 0:50:19.285 --> 0:50:20.925 we spoke on the phone, and then he just said, like, 0:50:20.965 --> 0:50:22.485 you know, look before I talked to her, I want 0:50:22.485 --> 0:50:25.325 to meet you in person. So he came from the 0:50:25.325 --> 0:50:27.885 north of Gaza to the south of Gaza, and he 0:50:28.005 --> 0:50:30.645 came because there's only one road that's open and into 0:50:30.645 --> 0:50:33.125 the Sea road. So he came via the sea road 0:50:33.445 --> 0:50:35.205 to where I was at my uncle's house. And then 0:50:35.245 --> 0:50:37.205 he spent like three four hours with me, just talking 0:50:37.205 --> 0:50:39.405 to me and getting to know me. And the next 0:50:39.485 --> 0:50:42.645 day he went and he, you know, he said, I 0:50:42.685 --> 0:50:44.525 want to speak to Nord. I like you you're a 0:50:44.565 --> 0:50:46.205 good guy, and doesn't want to go to speak to Nord. 0:50:46.525 --> 0:50:48.445 So he spoke to Nor and Noah said yes, that 0:50:48.485 --> 0:50:50.685 she would meet with me. So then the next day 0:50:50.685 --> 0:50:52.765 he came again with Laurence. She came from the north 0:50:52.805 --> 0:50:55.765 to the south. It's so dangerous, like traveling from the 0:50:55.805 --> 0:50:58.205 north to the south. And he came and you know, 0:50:58.285 --> 0:51:01.645 me and her I were in my uncle's house and 0:51:01.845 --> 0:51:04.285 it was so funny because they gave us like a 0:51:04.365 --> 0:51:06.165 room for me and her to sit in and to talk, 0:51:07.165 --> 0:51:10.525 and my cousins would like knock on the door and 0:51:10.685 --> 0:51:14.085 like bring in like coffee, and like I was all going, guys, 0:51:14.165 --> 0:51:18.765 you two love birds. And you know, at the end 0:51:18.805 --> 0:51:21.925 of like that conversation with me and her, you know, 0:51:22.125 --> 0:51:24.045 you know when you just know, you know, look, I've 0:51:24.085 --> 0:51:25.925 been born and I was raised in the west. Like 0:51:26.165 --> 0:51:28.285 I always thought that I would, you know, the way 0:51:28.285 --> 0:51:30.245 that I would meet somebody would be like you know, 0:51:30.285 --> 0:51:32.845 I would get to know them and you know how 0:51:32.925 --> 0:51:34.765 I'll date them for a while and then and then 0:51:34.805 --> 0:51:38.885 get married. But like, you know, just listening to the 0:51:38.885 --> 0:51:44.205 way that she spoke and her grace and her manners 0:51:44.405 --> 0:51:48.845 and her kindness and her empathy, I was just blown away. 0:51:48.845 --> 0:51:51.205 I was just like, there's there's there's no one better 0:51:51.205 --> 0:51:55.205 than this than this, than this woman. And you know 0:51:55.245 --> 0:51:58.605 when you know, she's so graceful, so like when when 0:51:59.125 --> 0:52:01.965 you know, when we finished talking, she said, I'm going 0:52:02.045 --> 0:52:04.965 to pray and then I'll and then I'll give you 0:52:05.005 --> 0:52:09.525 my answer of what we want to do. So you know, 0:52:09.605 --> 0:52:13.685 she they went home and in the morning, after morning prayer, 0:52:13.685 --> 0:52:16.645 I got a call and I was in the hospital 0:52:16.645 --> 0:52:18.125 at the time. I was working, and I got a 0:52:18.125 --> 0:52:20.165 call from her dad and he said congratulations, he said, 0:52:20.205 --> 0:52:23.045 she said yes, she wants to go ahead, and I 0:52:23.085 --> 0:52:24.605 was like, all right, cool. I was like, so you know, 0:52:24.605 --> 0:52:26.965 we'll get engaged in will halal date or whatever, and 0:52:27.005 --> 0:52:28.525 then you know, I told my uncles like yeah, she 0:52:28.525 --> 0:52:30.605 said yes, and he was like all right, good. He 0:52:30.725 --> 0:52:32.645 was like all right, go get a suit and I 0:52:32.685 --> 0:52:35.285 was like what he was like, He's like listen, well, 0:52:35.325 --> 0:52:37.645 He's like, we're in a war zone here, but we're 0:52:37.645 --> 0:52:39.885 not going to mess around here. He goes, you're going 0:52:39.925 --> 0:52:42.605 to marry this girl. And I was like, oh my god, okay, 0:52:42.685 --> 0:52:45.525 let's let's go do this. And there was no suits 0:52:45.965 --> 0:52:50.405 that would fit me in Gaza because so we ended 0:52:50.445 --> 0:52:53.805 up getting like this shirt that didn't even close. So 0:52:53.845 --> 0:52:55.405 it was me wearing a white shirt and this pink 0:52:55.445 --> 0:52:59.365 shirt and coincidentally, we match. She was wearing this like 0:52:59.805 --> 0:53:03.725 pink Palestinian dress. And you know, the crazy thing about 0:53:03.725 --> 0:53:07.765 all of this as well as is I I hadn't 0:53:07.805 --> 0:53:11.725 even seen her without her head jab so like I 0:53:11.725 --> 0:53:13.685 didn't know what she looked like. This was purely based 0:53:13.765 --> 0:53:16.645 on her as a person and as a character. And 0:53:17.325 --> 0:53:18.845 you know, I got married and everything like that, and 0:53:18.885 --> 0:53:20.725 I still hadn't seen what she looked like. And it 0:53:20.765 --> 0:53:23.365 was only after like the day after she came. Afterwards, 0:53:24.365 --> 0:53:25.685 the day after she came, and took a couple of 0:53:25.765 --> 0:53:28.085 days later and we hung out at my uncle's house, 0:53:28.125 --> 0:53:29.805 and you know, that's where I saw the first time 0:53:29.845 --> 0:53:31.405 about her head scoff on, and I was just like, 0:53:31.485 --> 0:53:37.925 oh my god, I've struggled here, you know. And you know, 0:53:38.005 --> 0:53:40.245 since then, we talk every single day, every single night, 0:53:40.325 --> 0:53:42.965 and you know, she's been so supportive of everything that 0:53:43.005 --> 0:53:44.525 we that I've been doing. 0:53:44.485 --> 0:53:46.405 And she's is she still working in the hospital. 0:53:46.765 --> 0:53:49.645 Yeah, you know, just this morning I was speaking to 0:53:49.685 --> 0:53:53.565 her and she just performed a cesarean section, and the 0:53:53.645 --> 0:54:00.005 day before she had operated on someone's leg. Because her 0:54:00.005 --> 0:54:02.845 father's an orthopedic surgeon, so she she assists with him, 0:54:03.045 --> 0:54:05.245 and she does now the full surgeries like from A 0:54:05.365 --> 0:54:08.805 to B by herself. And now she's performing these sections, 0:54:08.885 --> 0:54:10.845 she's complete different, Like this is what I mean, Like 0:54:10.925 --> 0:54:15.765 she is so incredibly smart, so incredibly compassionate and kind 0:54:15.965 --> 0:54:16.765 and beautiful. 0:54:17.565 --> 0:54:20.525 And do you know when you're going to say her next? 0:54:21.605 --> 0:54:25.085 I hope soon, because you know she's really really struggling. 0:54:25.285 --> 0:54:29.205 And like I say, her home was bombed yesterday, and 0:54:33.365 --> 0:54:35.885 you know, I feel guilty sometimes, you know, and seeing 0:54:35.925 --> 0:54:40.685 family being killed every day, seeing your wife suffer, it's tough, man, 0:54:40.845 --> 0:54:44.685 It's it's it's tough. And do you know sometimes I 0:54:44.725 --> 0:54:46.605 wish I wish I wasn't in this position. I wish 0:54:46.645 --> 0:54:50.325 I just was just a quiet life. But you know, 0:54:50.485 --> 0:54:53.525 I know that my experiences in my life have shaped 0:54:53.565 --> 0:54:56.885 me for this moment to be ready to help. And 0:54:56.925 --> 0:54:59.325 this is this is now where they need me to 0:54:59.365 --> 0:55:01.685 stay focused and they need me not to cave into 0:55:01.725 --> 0:55:04.285 the pressure. And I know that the pressure now is mounting. 0:55:04.605 --> 0:55:08.205 It's mounting because we're close. Yeah, it's mounting because we're close. 0:55:08.445 --> 0:55:11.165 And you I just hope that the Prime Minister does 0:55:11.285 --> 0:55:13.885 eventually meet with me. You can take a bit of 0:55:13.885 --> 0:55:16.525 this pressure off. You know, I can't carry this all 0:55:16.565 --> 0:55:17.045 on my own. 0:55:17.965 --> 0:55:23.245 You have an enormous amount of support and I think 0:55:24.005 --> 0:55:28.125 in a moment that has been so divisive, it has 0:55:28.365 --> 0:55:33.685 broken families, it has broken communities, and this is on 0:55:33.765 --> 0:55:36.205 the other side of the world that's not even acknowledging 0:55:36.325 --> 0:55:40.205 the real crisis which is happening in Gaza. I just 0:55:41.405 --> 0:55:44.645 want to end by saying thank you. Thank you for 0:55:44.685 --> 0:55:47.645 what you do with your hands, thank you for having 0:55:47.645 --> 0:55:49.605 the skills that mean that you actually can make a 0:55:49.605 --> 0:55:53.925 tangible difference in Gaza. But also thank you for your patience, 0:55:54.165 --> 0:55:56.725 because this is not the first interview you've done. You've 0:55:56.725 --> 0:55:58.965 been doing interviews for a long time with a lot 0:55:59.005 --> 0:56:03.605 of people revisiting trauma, talking about some of the worst, 0:56:03.765 --> 0:56:08.805 most horrendous things a person could ever witness. And it 0:56:08.845 --> 0:56:14.525 is patient, and it is gracious, and it is truly 0:56:14.685 --> 0:56:16.965 truly making a difference. And I hope that when you 0:56:17.045 --> 0:56:20.605 get some sleep and a moment to rest, you can 0:56:20.685 --> 0:56:24.485 feel the gravity of what you're doing because you do 0:56:24.605 --> 0:56:27.485 have the Australian community behind you, you really really do. 0:56:27.645 --> 0:56:30.005 So I just wanted to thank you. I appreciate that, 0:56:30.005 --> 0:56:31.125 thank you so much for having me. 0:56:35.445 --> 0:56:38.485 After listening, I hope you can understand why I was 0:56:38.725 --> 0:56:43.245 so deeply moved by our conversation. If this interview brought 0:56:43.325 --> 0:56:46.405 up anything for you, there are links to Lifeline and 0:56:46.485 --> 0:56:50.085 Beyond Blue in the show notes. If you're wondering how 0:56:50.085 --> 0:56:53.805 you can help, we've included links to charities and organizations 0:56:53.925 --> 0:56:57.205 that you can donate to in our show notes. And 0:56:57.285 --> 0:57:00.445 of course, if you want to continue to follow the 0:57:00.485 --> 0:57:04.045 work and the advocacy of doctor Mo, we have linked 0:57:04.085 --> 0:57:07.805 to his instagram, The Beast from the Middle East. Thank 0:57:07.845 --> 0:57:11.525 you for listening. The executive producer of No Filter is 0:57:11.645 --> 0:57:15.725 Nama Brown, the senior producer is Pre Player, and our 0:57:15.765 --> 0:57:17.845 audio engineer is Jacob Brown.